# Bears Built For The COLD, NFL Playoffs Are WIDE OPEN, Lamar Jackson’s Future, Ranking Top NFL Coaches

An episode of [The Colin Cowherd Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1551365571), 8 Jan 2026, 1 h 06 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/arttrk.com/p/D5CA5/pscrb.fm/rss/p/prfx.byspotify.com/e/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/4013d28e-5f67-4885-bff1-ae3300346830/664b9cf0-9a1f-415a-8ce8-b3cc002fe675/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=e829cf60-fc06-4d61-8691-ae330034683e

Colin is joined by Danny Parkins, host of “First Things First” on FS1 They start with the bad weather forecast for the upcoming Packers/Bears game and Colin argues that the weather will benefit the Bears due to their run game and Caleb Williams superior arm strength, and Danny explains why Bears fans are the most excited they’ve been in years (3:30). They also highlight which wild card weekend teams they feel most strongly about (11:00). Colin points to all the star, highly paid quarterbacks that missed the playoffs and argues that cheap, young quarterbacks with a stacked roster are a viable way to win in the NFL and that teams should pay big money very infrequently (15:00). They both agree that the NFL playoff field is WIDE OPEN and that almost any team could win (18:00). They debate what the Ravens should do next year and beyond with Lamar Jackson as his athletic powers diminish with age and what it will take to get the Ravens over the hump in the postseason (24:30). Colin argues John Harbaugh would be the perfect candidate to right the ship for the New York Giants (33:30) and they look at all the great young genius coaches that teams let walk in favor of long-tenured head coaches (37:30). Colin points to Ben Johnson as the next McVay and the job he’s done with the Bears in two years has been nothing short of spectacular. They credit both his scheme genius and culture building ability for the Bears turnaround (41:30). They also rank the NFL head coaches that they’d take over Ben Johnson and go around the league identifying the coaches they hold in highest regard (49:30) and preview Texans @ Steelers 1:08:00). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

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[1:51] Speaker 2: Will He worked in the Chicago radio for a long time.
[1:54] Speaker 2: Now he's on FS one career assunchon been fun to see.
[1:57] Speaker 2: His name is Danny Parkins. So Saturday, a friend of
[2:01] Speaker 2: mine in California, he said, Hey, I take my son
[2:06] Speaker 2: to a game every year, and we know you live
[2:09] Speaker 2: in Chicago. Do you want to go to the Bears game?
[2:12] Speaker 2: I said, it's going to be thirty mile hour wind,
[2:14] Speaker 2: gusts and snowing. He's like, it'll be so much fun,
[2:16] Speaker 2: and I said, when you live in it, it's really
[2:19] Speaker 2: not that fun, Like I don't ski anymore. So, but
[2:23] Speaker 2: it is interesting when I look at that Packer game.
[2:26] Speaker 2: What I think is fascinating is usually when the Packers
[2:28] Speaker 2: play in a playoff game, they are the story and
[2:32] Speaker 2: it's a total Bear story. Ben Johnson Caleb, the Bears
[2:37] Speaker 2: are literally what everybody is watching for. And my theory
[2:41] Speaker 2: is the lousy weather benefits the Bears because they have
[2:46] Speaker 2: one of the best run games. The Packers run game
[2:48] Speaker 2: isn't as good. The Bears have a better run game,
[2:50] Speaker 2: a better old line, and I would argue the ability
[2:54] Speaker 2: for Caleb to just take off is actually usually the
[2:59] Speaker 2: more Ski offense is at a disadvantage when the weather stinks,
[3:04] Speaker 2: and I actually think it plays into the bears favor
[3:07] Speaker 2: And I like Chicago this weekend and I think they're
[3:10] Speaker 2: the second best bet on the board after Jacksonville.
[3:13] Speaker 1: So yeah, a lot there. Caleb's best game of the
[3:17] Speaker 1: season and arguably his career was against Cleveland and their
[3:21] Speaker 1: defense was very good this year and it was the
[3:23] Speaker 1: coldest game at Soldier Field in like twenty years. His
[3:28] Speaker 1: arm is ridiculous, ridiculous. So now Jordan Love's got a
[3:32] Speaker 1: very He's got a plus arm.
[3:33] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[3:34] Speaker 1: So, but like bad conditions should impact Caleb less than
[3:41] Speaker 1: other players because of his like physical gifts. And then
[3:45] Speaker 1: everything else you said is absolutely true. Home field, offensive line,
[3:49] Speaker 1: run game, all those things. Green Bay's defense also, you know,
[3:54] Speaker 1: they've lost four straight. Micah got hurt four games ago.
[3:58] Speaker 1: They have three sacks and no intercept in their last
[4:01] Speaker 1: four games down the stretch. That's the Jets. The Jets
[4:04] Speaker 1: have four sacks and no interceptions. They're the only other
[4:06] Speaker 1: team in that spot. They're giving up twenty eight a game.
[4:09] Speaker 1: Like the Pack. The Bears defense is not good, but
[4:13] Speaker 1: they lead the league in takeaways, like they do make plays.
[4:16] Speaker 1: The Packers defense, since losing Mica, is just bad. They
[4:19] Speaker 1: don't sack the quarterback, they don't turn you over. They
[4:21] Speaker 1: give up a lot of points. So they're just bad
[4:24] Speaker 1: and not even opportunistic. But before we get into any
[4:26] Speaker 1: more hardcore x's and knows football, I'm going, oh my god, Colin,
[4:34] Speaker 1: you didn't even text me back. I texted you and said, hey,
[4:36] Speaker 1: I'm flying in Saturday morning. Do you want to grab lunch?
[4:39] Speaker 1: And now I'm going with my with my buddies and
[4:42] Speaker 1: we're going to get lunch. So unless you want to
[4:43] Speaker 1: come hang out with some of us as we start boozing,
[4:46] Speaker 1: you're more than welcome. But Colin, I hate going to
[4:50] Speaker 1: NFL games. Hate it. It's expensive. People fight, Yeah, the
[4:54] Speaker 1: traffic is miserable. I think it's crazy that this game
[4:58] Speaker 1: ended up on Saturday instead of Han And there's been
[5:00] Speaker 1: great reporting as to like how the TV networks divvied
[5:04] Speaker 1: up these games and why Prime got the excellent game
[5:07] Speaker 1: that is Bear's Packers. But when I saw that it
[5:09] Speaker 1: was Saturday night in Chicago and I could fly in
[5:12] Speaker 1: Saturday morning, fly back to New York Sunday, morning, be
[5:15] Speaker 1: back in time to watch all the Sunday games and
[5:18] Speaker 1: go and not miss anything by going to this Bears
[5:20] Speaker 1: Packers game. This is gonna be a special thing. Like
[5:23] Speaker 1: it's gonna be uncomfortable, it's going to be cold, but
[5:26] Speaker 1: I I have incredible seats. I am right behind the
[5:30] Speaker 1: Bears bench, like so I'm out in the elements, but
[5:33] Speaker 1: like first row behind the Bear's bench. I have not
[5:36] Speaker 1: been this excited to go to an NFL game since
[5:38] Speaker 1: I was like a child. Like, I am very, very
[5:41] Speaker 1: excited to be there. It's because because your friend is correct,
[5:45] Speaker 1: like there, it's going to be a it's gonna be
[5:49] Speaker 1: an experience. It's gonna be miserably cold and windy. I'm
[5:53] Speaker 1: actually rooting for it to be cold because I don't
[5:56] Speaker 1: want it to be If it's gonna I don't want
[5:58] Speaker 1: it to be rain. I'd much rather it'd be snowing
[6:01] Speaker 1: than rain. Yeah, just for like comfort in the stadium.
[6:04] Speaker 1: So if it's like thirty three in raining, that's gonna
[6:06] Speaker 1: be miserable. Give me twenty three in snow. Yeah, thirty rain.
[6:10] Speaker 1: But I don't know. There's good Bears Packers Soldier Field
[6:14] Speaker 1: Bears as the two seed feeling like we are not
[6:17] Speaker 1: out coached and we are not out quarterbacked. I remember
[6:21] Speaker 1: watching football for the first time in nineteen ninety two,
[6:24] Speaker 1: being six years old. My old my dad, and my
[6:26] Speaker 1: older brother raised in Wisconsin, die hard Packers fans. Ninety
[6:30] Speaker 1: two is Brett Favre's first year in Green Bay. I've
[6:34] Speaker 1: never seen the Bears have a better quarterback than the
[6:37] Speaker 1: Packers my whole life. So the idea that like this
[6:41] Speaker 1: game could be like the beginning of the rivalry being real,
[6:47] Speaker 1: and that's the floor where the ceiling is like passing
[6:50] Speaker 1: of a torch to like an era of the Bears
[6:53] Speaker 1: being the hammer and the Packers being the nail. I'm
[6:55] Speaker 1: just I'm so excited for this game. I had to
[6:58] Speaker 1: be there.
[6:58] Speaker 2: Well, you know, one of the things about running a
[7:04] Speaker 2: Northern tier team, and I've said this for years, Danny,
[7:07] Speaker 2: there's never been a dome dynasty in the NFL. There's
[7:10] Speaker 2: never been a warm weather dynasty.
[7:12] Speaker 1: I mean, Dan, that's interesting.
[7:14] Speaker 2: Yeah, Dan Marino, one of the Cowboys. Uh, go there
[7:18] Speaker 2: in the winter. It's not that warm, it's it's it's
[7:20] Speaker 2: you know, they've got I went to a Super Bowl
[7:22] Speaker 2: there where ice, sheets of ice were falling off the stadium.
[7:25] Speaker 1: That was that. Yes, sure, yes, okay.
[7:28] Speaker 2: So I don't consider I consider warm you know, Miami, Arizona,
[7:34] Speaker 2: an LA team, Jacksonville. There's never been a warm weather dynasty.
[7:41] Speaker 2: And so the NFL success has gone through cold, crappy weather.
[7:45] Speaker 2: And I was thinking about this the other day. Ben
[7:48] Speaker 2: Johnson's a real sharp guy. Ben Johnson. I think New Listen,
[7:54] Speaker 2: it's not named the windy city because of the win.
[7:57] Speaker 2: That's because of politicians years ago. Nonetheless, and Baltimore's oh
[8:01] Speaker 2: has done this, and New England did this. Don't don't
[8:05] Speaker 2: worry too much about deep threats. They went and got
[8:07] Speaker 2: a center, two guards, and a tight end and a
[8:10] Speaker 2: slot receiver. And why those guys can operate under sixteen
[8:17] Speaker 2: yards Now, Caleb has a power arm. But even if
[8:20] Speaker 2: you have a power arm Saturday, it may not matter.
[8:23] Speaker 2: And I think, what one of the quiet pieces of
[8:26] Speaker 2: Ben Johnson, unstated pieces of Ben Johnson's brilliance. He built
[8:31] Speaker 2: this team to play in crappy weather. This is an
[8:34] Speaker 2: excellent crappy weather team. For the record, so is Philadelphia.
[8:38] Speaker 2: Sakuan Barkley, good tight ends, excellent O line. So Seattle,
[8:43] Speaker 2: by the way, Darnald Big Arm. They went and drafted
[8:47] Speaker 2: a tight end, two running backs, really only one receiver.
[8:51] Speaker 2: So I think what makes you you know, we always
[8:54] Speaker 2: think of Green Bay. I mean Green BAYO was far
[8:56] Speaker 2: of Big Arm, Aaron Big Arm, love Big Arm, Flacco,
[8:59] Speaker 2: bigm Lamar, not so much Mahomes Big Arm. I think
[9:03] Speaker 2: Chicago is if the weather is lousy for the next
[9:08] Speaker 2: three weeks. I think the Bears are completely built for you.
[9:12] Speaker 2: For the record, Detroit wasn't where Ben was at because
[9:15] Speaker 2: gof's not good in that weather. But they were indoors.
[9:19] Speaker 2: So I always feel like when golf goes outside, the
[9:21] Speaker 2: odds change. So I know a lot of people go
[9:25] Speaker 2: back and forth, but I in the last twelve hours,
[9:27] Speaker 2: I'm like Big Jacksonville, Big Chicago, and I do like
[9:31] Speaker 2: Mike Tomlin Monday now that DK Metcalf comes back. So
[9:36] Speaker 2: those are the three I feel strongest about. Do you
[9:38] Speaker 2: have two to three that you really feel most strongly about?
[9:43] Speaker 1: Well, so one that you didn't mention is my favorite,
[9:46] Speaker 1: and it's Chargers plus three and a half. Wow. Yeah,
[9:50] Speaker 1: so you and Jamack love that. So I don't know
[9:54] Speaker 1: if I love that. No, Like obviously, three in the
[10:01] Speaker 1: hook is a big deal. Like it's obviously a very
[10:03] Speaker 1: important number in the gambling space, So that is a
[10:06] Speaker 1: piece of it. I think Jacksonville wanted New England because
[10:13] Speaker 1: they know, Okay, two of our most expensive players and
[10:17] Speaker 1: two of our best players, Alton Slater, are out for
[10:20] Speaker 1: the year. You take two of the four highest paid
[10:23] Speaker 1: players off any team, it's going to decimate him. Yes,
[10:26] Speaker 1: Now you say they play the same position and their
[10:31] Speaker 1: job is to protect your most expensive and important player,
[10:34] Speaker 1: and it's a death blow. Like anyone who has been
[10:37] Speaker 1: hit the number of times that Herbert has been hit,
[10:41] Speaker 1: who has made the playoffs in the last thirty years,
[10:44] Speaker 1: They've all lost in the wildcard round, Like it is
[10:46] Speaker 1: supposed to be a fatal flaw of a team if
[10:50] Speaker 1: you can't stop your quarterback from getting hit. Well, New
[10:54] Speaker 1: England's defense is not good. They're not They're statistically okay
[10:59] Speaker 1: in sas, but they haven't played anybody. And when you
[11:03] Speaker 1: dig into it just a little bit, like good quarterbacks
[11:07] Speaker 1: have been efficient against them and have at least moved
[11:09] Speaker 1: the ball, and their pass rush numbers are not good. Now,
[11:12] Speaker 1: a lot of that is, you know, they don't even
[11:16] Speaker 1: really need to They're not playing from behind. They're not
[11:18] Speaker 1: gearing up and going after it. There's some prevent stuff.
[11:20] Speaker 1: There's been a lot of blowouts. Sure, I'll concede that.
[11:23] Speaker 1: But I think Denver is a worst matchup for the Chargers.
[11:28] Speaker 1: I think Houston is a worst.
[11:29] Speaker 2: Matchup for Houston's a bad matchup.
[11:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt. Denver's pass rush almost beat the eighty
[11:36] Speaker 1: four Bears record, right. I mean, the Chargers beat them
[11:40] Speaker 1: in a twenty three to twenty game where Herbert was incredible,
[11:43] Speaker 1: but he got hit and abused and sacked and like
[11:46] Speaker 1: he was, they were lucky to win that game. But
[11:50] Speaker 1: I just think that they looked at it and they said,
[11:52] Speaker 1: we'll rest our guys in week eighteen, and we'll play
[11:55] Speaker 1: a team that really hasn't played much of anybody this
[11:59] Speaker 1: year and will run on them and will protect Justin
[12:03] Speaker 1: and Justin Herbert won't be staring at the ceiling the
[12:05] Speaker 1: whole game because their pass rush isn't great. So I
[12:09] Speaker 1: just I think New England having the easiest schedule of
[12:12] Speaker 1: any team since the ninety nine Rams is something, and
[12:16] Speaker 1: I think their pass rush not being very good is something.
[12:19] Speaker 1: And I think Herbert, like you do, is a superstar
[12:22] Speaker 1: so I really like them to I think they're gonna
[12:25] Speaker 1: win the game, but I'll certainly take them plus three
[12:27] Speaker 1: and a half.
[12:28] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really been an interesting college and pro football year.
[12:31] Speaker 2: I mean, the fact that we have Ole Miss, Miami, Indiana,
[12:34] Speaker 2: and Oregon is to me just wonderful. The nil's got
[12:40] Speaker 2: its issues. The transfer portal is the wild Wild West.
[12:43] Speaker 2: It's great. I can't wait to watch the games. I
[12:45] Speaker 2: was so over Georgia, Bama, Ohio State, Clemson, and they're
[12:48] Speaker 2: all great programs. The NFL has been interesting. I always
[12:52] Speaker 2: say this when whenever, like media critics, nobody says it
[12:55] Speaker 2: much now, but whenever I hear a talk show host
[12:58] Speaker 2: who's older, somebody complain about how I'm always like, God,
[13:01] Speaker 2: you sound one hundred years old. Have you ever listened
[13:03] Speaker 2: to political radio? For all you young guys doing sports
[13:06] Speaker 2: talk radio have a million hot takes. It's fun. That's
[13:09] Speaker 2: what fans have. They have a million conspiracy theories. And
[13:12] Speaker 2: we're a conduit to the fans. We're a vessel to
[13:14] Speaker 2: the fans that read ads.
[13:15] Speaker 1: Right.
[13:16] Speaker 2: So my take is you got to be careful about
[13:19] Speaker 2: hot takes, because if I would have told you in
[13:23] Speaker 2: September Mahomes, Burro, Lamar don't make the playoffs. Bow Nicks
[13:27] Speaker 2: and Sam Darnold are number one seeds. You would have
[13:31] Speaker 2: thought that was I was just trying to get clicks.
[13:34] Speaker 2: And I think what's becoming clear in this league is
[13:39] Speaker 2: the way to make the playoffs is with a star
[13:41] Speaker 2: quarterback if you can stay upright. Mahomes is O line okick,
[13:45] Speaker 2: Josh Allen, Justin Herbert. I tend to think CJ. Stroud
[13:49] Speaker 2: is really good or a cheap quarterback, a really really
[13:55] Speaker 2: cheap quarterback. And I think Drake May, Caleb Williams, I
[14:03] Speaker 2: mean JJ McCarthy at the end of the year actually
[14:06] Speaker 2: played well. He can just never stay healthy. And I
[14:09] Speaker 2: think what's becoming clear, and you saw it in Baltimore,
[14:12] Speaker 2: the fact that Burrow and Lamar, Jackson and Mahomes can't
[14:15] Speaker 2: make the playoffs. Watch their games. I mean, Cincinnati and
[14:19] Speaker 2: Kansas City's rosters are just nothing. I mean, they don't
[14:22] Speaker 2: look like Seattle's, they don't look like Denver's, they don't
[14:25] Speaker 2: look like and So I mean, I think my takeaway
[14:28] Speaker 2: from this season is and I've always felt this, Danny,
[14:31] Speaker 2: I think I've told you this. I would be a
[14:32] Speaker 2: GM in the NFL. That would be my dream if
[14:34] Speaker 2: I didn't do this, pay big money infrequently, even at quarterback.
[14:40] Speaker 2: Just do everything in you I mean Dallas, Dak's cappit
[14:45] Speaker 2: look at their defense by the way, Josh Allen huge
[14:47] Speaker 2: capit look at their defense. Is that they're a six seed.
[14:51] Speaker 2: It's on my takeaway this season, it's another reminder, even
[14:56] Speaker 2: if you pay your quarterback, Burrow, Mahomes, Allen have to
[15:00] Speaker 2: be superman and bo Nix and Caleb can be bad
[15:05] Speaker 2: quarterbacks for about half of the halfs they play and
[15:10] Speaker 2: they can be one, two or three seats. That's my
[15:12] Speaker 2: takeaway on the season.
[15:14] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just it's very tough to when it's time
[15:18] Speaker 1: to pay that guy flatly say we're not going to
[15:22] Speaker 1: pay him.
[15:23] Speaker 2: It's now you're saying if you were in that position,
[15:26] Speaker 2: you would do. But what I'm saying is I would
[15:30] Speaker 2: constantly restructure it. Would I would tell the player listen.
[15:34] Speaker 2: I mean, I'm I've always had a theory on this, Danny,
[15:38] Speaker 2: is that at any one time in the NFL, there
[15:40] Speaker 2: are six quarterbacks max that you don't even pick up
[15:44] Speaker 2: the phone. There's another six that you don't initiate the call.
[15:48] Speaker 2: But you'd pick up the phone and talk Lamar. I
[15:50] Speaker 2: think's moved into that space and in the rest of
[15:53] Speaker 2: the league, I get on the phone. I think you
[15:55] Speaker 2: should draft a quarterback every other year. My theory on
[15:58] Speaker 2: drafting Centers are the most undrafted players in the league.
[16:02] Speaker 2: Cornerbacks are un everybody plays zone. Corners are overrated, and
[16:07] Speaker 2: you should draft a quarterback every other year every other
[16:10] Speaker 2: I don't care if you get Mahomes every other year.
[16:12] Speaker 2: Draft a quarterback.
[16:14] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Ron Wolf was every year, you know,
[16:16] Speaker 1: and that was that was part of the Packers thing.
[16:19] Speaker 1: I think about this season in particular, I think there's
[16:23] Speaker 1: a lot of Listen, the NFL tries to be designed
[16:25] Speaker 1: for parody, salary cap, salary floor. Now the playoffs has
[16:29] Speaker 1: been expanded where fourteen teams makes it, which I don't
[16:32] Speaker 1: really like because now every team that was over five
[16:35] Speaker 1: hundred this year except for Minnesota makes the play twenty
[16:37] Speaker 1: percent of the league. Yeah, so don't I don't love that.
[16:40] Speaker 1: And so I think that it allows for a little
[16:42] Speaker 1: bit of like wrong conclusions to be made because it's like, oh, well,
[16:47] Speaker 1: you can be good this way, you could be good
[16:49] Speaker 1: this way, you could be good this way, a lot
[16:50] Speaker 1: of different ways to do it. I did a thing
[16:52] Speaker 1: on the show today. These teams are all flawed, all
[16:55] Speaker 1: of them. Like if you I see AD's the best team,
[17:01] Speaker 1: I've had them at one or two on my top ten. Literally,
[17:04] Speaker 1: I think since like week eleven, we went back and
[17:05] Speaker 1: looked at shaky ol Yeah, shakey O line and do
[17:10] Speaker 1: are we I think it's totally fair to just say
[17:13] Speaker 1: do we trust Sam Darnold. I think I think it's
[17:16] Speaker 1: totally right. He was not He was efficient last week,
[17:19] Speaker 1: but not productive. Right, We've seen him in the playoffs,
[17:22] Speaker 1: We've seen him in Week eighteen last year. Like, he
[17:24] Speaker 1: does not have a long, big game resume. Uh, And
[17:27] Speaker 1: that's putting it mildly. Pick the Rams. They're the second
[17:32] Speaker 1: favorite in Vegas. They gave up twenty eight points per
[17:35] Speaker 1: game the last six games of the season.
[17:36] Speaker 2: Their special teams are brutal.
[17:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, so like they just so we can go back
[17:40] Speaker 1: and forth, and so it's like, Okay, well those are
[17:42] Speaker 1: the top two favorites in Vegas. And then everyone's like, well,
[17:45] Speaker 1: Josh Allen needs to win. It's Josh Josh Allen is
[17:48] Speaker 1: going to get crushed by the media if he doesn't
[17:50] Speaker 1: win because so much of the analysis is quarterback driven.
[17:53] Speaker 1: They have a thirty first ranked run defense in the NFL.
[17:57] Speaker 1: They give up over five yards of carriag.
[17:59] Speaker 2: I think Jacksonville's and control the line of scrimmage in
[18:01] Speaker 2: that game.
[18:02] Speaker 1: They they might and I do vall Nation not a
[18:06] Speaker 1: huge fan of me because I have just I have
[18:08] Speaker 1: not believed in Jacksonville. I think they've beaten up on
[18:11] Speaker 1: some bad teams. The Denver win was definitely impressive. I
[18:13] Speaker 1: have scar tissue with Trevor Lawrence. He he is on
[18:17] Speaker 1: a hot streak right now. I think it's fifteen touchdowns
[18:21] Speaker 1: one interception his last six games. He's going to be
[18:23] Speaker 1: all over people's MVP ballots. People will vote him third, fourth, fifth,
[18:27] Speaker 1: and fine. I don't trust him. I don't. He is
[18:32] Speaker 1: the most three turnover games of any player in the
[18:35] Speaker 1: NFL going back to twenty twenty one. He got nine
[18:37] Speaker 1: of them. Like he just now. He always won this year,
[18:40] Speaker 1: but he's a couple other games where he throws a
[18:42] Speaker 1: pick and has a couple of fumbles, but they happen
[18:43] Speaker 1: to recover it. Like I need to see that guy
[18:47] Speaker 1: consistently play clean football in big games before I will
[18:51] Speaker 1: believe in him. Maybe that's not fair and I'm judging
[18:54] Speaker 1: him like pre Liam Cohen and William Cohen has. The
[18:58] Speaker 1: interceptions are down, the fumbles are but they've also recovered
[19:01] Speaker 1: some of his fumbles. Like I just I don't fully
[19:03] Speaker 1: trust the guy, and so these it's just wide open.
[19:07] Speaker 1: It's wide open, and I think that makes it that
[19:10] Speaker 1: makes it fun to circle it back to the Bears point.
[19:13] Speaker 1: The Bears defense is not good. Nope, they have allowed
[19:16] Speaker 1: more yards than any other team in the playoffs. They
[19:19] Speaker 1: are not good. But they can win. Sure, why not?
[19:24] Speaker 1: Why not? Great running team, great coach, two home games
[19:27] Speaker 1: if the bracket holds, if Seattle loses, and the NFC
[19:30] Speaker 1: championship game could be in Chicago in sub zero weather.
[19:34] Speaker 1: If Seattle eliminate, like it's eliminated, I'll take my chances
[19:38] Speaker 1: with this Bears team. They're in the mix of teams
[19:41] Speaker 1: that can win.
[19:49] Speaker 2: So I want to talk about the Lamar Jackson thing.
[19:51] Speaker 2: So listen, eighteen years is a long time to be
[19:54] Speaker 2: a CEO of a company, Like that's just a long time.
[19:57] Speaker 2: And the hardballs are they're intense, like intense personalities Jim
[20:03] Speaker 2: and John. I could see six eight years in and
[20:06] Speaker 2: San Francisco. You know, Jim was wearing people out and
[20:09] Speaker 2: Stanford he did. And I think this Jim is much
[20:11] Speaker 2: more chill. Maybe the Harballs need to get to sixty
[20:14] Speaker 2: and John Harball has never been quite as intense. But
[20:16] Speaker 2: I think John'll go win somewhere and Lamar will win.
[20:21] Speaker 2: But it is interesting with Lamar because I was saying
[20:24] Speaker 2: this today. They sat down with a meeting, and I
[20:28] Speaker 2: don't think the intent was to run John Harbaugh out.
[20:31] Speaker 2: But if you're John Harbaugh, you're like, Okay, listen, I
[20:34] Speaker 2: was eight and four in the playoffs pre Lamar. I'm
[20:36] Speaker 2: three and six with him. He's missed a full season
[20:39] Speaker 2: of games. I don't know what he actually is right
[20:43] Speaker 2: now because it's not what it used to be. And
[20:46] Speaker 2: Cam Newton's last Pro Bowl was at twenty six. Like,
[20:51] Speaker 2: but Lamar is so wildly worshiped and loved in Baltimore.
[20:56] Speaker 2: He's unmovable. And by the way, Mahomes is Alan is
[21:00] Speaker 2: Lamar is. You could move almost every quarterback and I'm serious,
[21:04] Speaker 2: there's about I mean, now, Herbert in La would be tough,
[21:08] Speaker 2: but the truth is La is so chill, you know,
[21:11] Speaker 2: But I mean, like Lamar's on a short list of
[21:14] Speaker 2: you just can't move them. But my point is, what
[21:22] Speaker 2: do you think next year? Because remember, hyper athletic quarterbacks
[21:26] Speaker 2: age faster. That's not disputable. Old guys, Aaron, Stafford Brady,
[21:32] Speaker 2: don't you can play into your fort I thought Aaron
[21:34] Speaker 2: second half last week was the best he's played in
[21:36] Speaker 2: three years. I thought he was outstanding. What do you
[21:40] Speaker 2: think Lamar is going forward? Because I think deep down
[21:44] Speaker 2: he would never say it publicly, but Lamar didn't throw
[21:47] Speaker 2: out an olive branch when he got fired, and that
[21:51] Speaker 2: story got leaked to the writer in Baltimore and it
[21:54] Speaker 2: didn't come from Lamar's side. And my take is the
[21:59] Speaker 2: untold story is Harbott asked some questions about Lamar, like
[22:03] Speaker 2: what are we going forward? He's got a seventy four
[22:05] Speaker 2: million dollar capt My ask to you is next year
[22:08] Speaker 2: and beyond. Do you believe Lamar is what we saw
[22:12] Speaker 2: this year, a slower, more tackleable, more defendable version of
[22:17] Speaker 2: what he was three years ago.
[22:20] Speaker 1: Well, I mean, listen, he arguably should have won MVP
[22:22] Speaker 1: last year. You know, like it was a very close
[22:25] Speaker 1: MVP race with him and Josh Allen last year. So
[22:27] Speaker 1: we're not that far removed from Lamar. You know, he
[22:30] Speaker 1: was what forty one touchdowns and four picks or something stupid.
[22:34] Speaker 2: But again, athletic quarterbacks age fast, No, no, absolutely, Ben
[22:38] Speaker 2: just fell off a cliff.
[22:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, I would not want to be tied to
[22:45] Speaker 1: Lamar for his thirties. But like he turned twenty nine today,
[22:51] Speaker 1: I think that it's totally reasonable to say his age
[22:54] Speaker 1: twenty nine, thirty thirty one thirty two seasons that you'd
[22:58] Speaker 1: be thrilled, Okay could win a Super Bowl in two
[23:02] Speaker 1: of those four years, you know, like it. And so
[23:06] Speaker 1: because he has gotten better as a passer, I think
[23:09] Speaker 1: his what the next coach's biggest challenge is going to
[23:13] Speaker 1: be is figuring out how much of his improvement as
[23:18] Speaker 1: a passer was because teams had to defend against him
[23:21] Speaker 1: as a runner. And Mike just like because like his
[23:24] Speaker 1: his mobility makes you have to put in spies and
[23:27] Speaker 1: keep eyes on the quarterback and so that it makes
[23:29] Speaker 1: it easier to pass the football. He doesn't just drop
[23:32] Speaker 1: back and pass it like Matt Stafford, and he never will.
[23:35] Speaker 1: And so as that athleticism wanes, how much is his
[23:38] Speaker 1: passing efficiency going to wane? And my guess is a
[23:40] Speaker 1: significant amount, Like, well, I don't think Lamar is going
[23:44] Speaker 1: to be you know, I don't think he's gonna win
[23:46] Speaker 1: another MVP Award, but I do think that he will
[23:49] Speaker 1: be good enough in the short term to be competitive
[23:52] Speaker 1: because of how talented that roster is and the other like,
[23:56] Speaker 1: because I think also what you're asking is, like, how
[23:58] Speaker 1: attractive is the Baltimore job. It's a great organization.
[24:03] Speaker 2: Oh, I think it's I think it's the best job
[24:05] Speaker 2: opening in for since since green Bay. But green Bay
[24:09] Speaker 2: doesn't have an owner and they've got their own obstacles
[24:12] Speaker 2: and things to deal with. I mean, green Bay third
[24:15] Speaker 2: year in a row, youngest team, why they don't sign
[24:17] Speaker 2: free agents much. So, right, Baltimore's as good a job
[24:20] Speaker 2: as that's been opening years.
[24:22] Speaker 1: I agree with you, But like, if you are skeptical
[24:25] Speaker 1: of what Lamar is gonna be, and you're gonna have
[24:27] Speaker 1: to pay him seventy million.
[24:28] Speaker 2: Dollars, so I'm not skeptical. I think you get two
[24:31] Speaker 2: more really really high end years. But my guess is
[24:35] Speaker 2: the Lamar that was freakishly hard to corner, I don't
[24:42] Speaker 2: think we'll see that. I think we'll see highly effective
[24:45] Speaker 2: eleven and six can win the division. But I do
[24:49] Speaker 2: think I think it's a reasonable take that twenty nine
[24:54] Speaker 2: years old for his stylistically, I think he's got two
[24:58] Speaker 2: really good years left. I wouldn't bet on four. I
[25:01] Speaker 2: think at thirty three is not the same player.
[25:03] Speaker 1: I think, you know, I agree with that, and I said,
[25:06] Speaker 1: like two of the next four because maybe he hurts
[25:10] Speaker 1: his back next year or whatever. But I think I
[25:12] Speaker 1: also think that athletes now they're just better, yeah, right,
[25:16] Speaker 1: And so I think we have to kind of like
[25:18] Speaker 1: it used to be, like running backs after twenty seven,
[25:21] Speaker 1: don't want those guys now. Derrick Henry is still a
[25:23] Speaker 1: top six back in the NFL, you know. Now he's
[25:26] Speaker 1: an Adrian Peterson cyborg. But like Christian McCaffrey used to,
[25:31] Speaker 1: just higher than it's ever been. Like, we have to
[25:33] Speaker 1: like adjust it a little bit, like because Cam Newton
[25:37] Speaker 1: took hits in a way that Lamar doesn't take hits
[25:41] Speaker 1: right now, bigger athlete, but he was one yard touchdowns
[25:46] Speaker 1: Ben Roethlisberger lowering his shoulder. That's not what Lamar is.
[25:50] Speaker 2: Like.
[25:50] Speaker 1: You can still be just if you are a good
[25:53] Speaker 1: escape artist, even if you're not running to scramble just
[25:55] Speaker 1: like running to evade the pressure, extend the plays, you
[25:58] Speaker 1: can still be effective. So yeah, two of the next
[26:00] Speaker 1: four years, I think you have a top ten quarterback
[26:05] Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson, and you can you can win a Super
[26:07] Speaker 1: Bowl with that, and then when you add in all
[26:09] Speaker 1: the other talent there, how well they draft. What coach
[26:12] Speaker 1: Manjini keeps talking about though, is he's like, what people
[26:15] Speaker 1: underrate is when you're there for eighteen years. It's not
[26:19] Speaker 1: like a coach who was there for three and gets fired.
[26:22] Speaker 1: He's like, you're you're either just doing more of what
[26:26] Speaker 1: John Harball was doing or you're changing everything. But the
[26:30] Speaker 1: pr was how Harball wanted it, the food was how
[26:34] Speaker 1: Harball wanted it, the training staff, all of those things.
[26:37] Speaker 1: So I'm fascinated into, like the profile of who the
[26:40] Speaker 1: next coach of the Ravens is, Like, can it be
[26:43] Speaker 1: a first time head coach? No I said this today.
[26:46] Speaker 1: They don't need their culture change. They have one of
[26:48] Speaker 1: the best cultures. They need somebody that works with Lamar
[26:51] Speaker 1: as he ages Stefanski. Yeah, the New York Giants need
[26:56] Speaker 1: a Vraabel, they need a culture changer. So yeah, I
[26:59] Speaker 1: think I think that makes perfect sense.
[27:01] Speaker 2: Harbball works with New York or Atlanta. Stefanski works in Baltimore.
[27:06] Speaker 2: Their culture is incredible. They just have to have somebody
[27:09] Speaker 2: that Lamar's like, Oh, you're my guy, You're an offensive guy.
[27:12] Speaker 2: They need an offensive coach for Lamar because I do
[27:15] Speaker 2: think you're gonna get a little less from Lamar.
[27:17] Speaker 1: So what can elevate him? Really elite coaching, Yes, schemes, scheme, yeah,
[27:22] Speaker 1: helping him out in that way. I agree. It's a
[27:26] Speaker 1: fun By the way, Nick and I were talking about
[27:29] Speaker 1: this today, you and John Harbaugh both look great for
[27:33] Speaker 1: your age, because like I kind of was floating like
[27:36] Speaker 1: to Nic, I was like, you know, like it would
[27:38] Speaker 1: kind of make sense if Andy Reid wanted Harbaugh to
[27:42] Speaker 1: replace him, because Andy Reid gave him his shot in
[27:44] Speaker 1: the NFL back in Philly. But then you look it up,
[27:48] Speaker 1: John Harbough's sixty two years old. Yeah, Like, Andy Reid's
[27:52] Speaker 1: not gonna at sixty seven gonna hand it over to
[27:54] Speaker 1: a sixty two year old guy. So everyone's like talking
[27:57] Speaker 1: about how John Harbaugh is the unbelievable coaching candidate, and
[28:02] Speaker 1: he is, and he'll ten seven teams will offer him
[28:06] Speaker 1: a job and maybe teams that are going to you know,
[28:07] Speaker 1: maybe they'll fire someone in Tampa to hire him, or
[28:10] Speaker 1: Green Bay or Buffalo or who the hell knows. But
[28:13] Speaker 1: it's not hiring Ben Johnson. It's not hiring William Cohen.
[28:17] Speaker 1: Like you're you're hiring a guy to five years, right?
[28:24] Speaker 1: Like is that I that? That? Would? That? Would I?
[28:29] Speaker 1: If I'm a Giants fan and they hire John Harbaugh,
[28:32] Speaker 1: It's obviously exciting, but I'm also like immediately starting the
[28:37] Speaker 1: clock on it because like, how is he get a
[28:39] Speaker 1: coach into a seventy.
[28:40] Speaker 2: Well yeah, so no, I think it's a five year
[28:42] Speaker 2: higher And and that's how I feel.
[28:45] Speaker 1: Such in the NFL is an eternity. I understand that,
[28:47] Speaker 1: but it's it's just we're talking about like Lamar's shelf life.
[28:50] Speaker 1: It's also interesting to consider, like everyone's like, well, John
[28:53] Speaker 1: Harbaugh is gonna sit out a year. I'm like, no,
[28:55] Speaker 1: he's gonna go get a seventy five million dollar contract
[28:57] Speaker 1: right now because it's probably his last big paid.
[29:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's not calling plays anymore a lot of
[29:03] Speaker 2: these older coaches. I feel that Harbaugh to the Giants
[29:06] Speaker 2: is Kyle Winningham to Michigan. Right the ship excellent, blue
[29:11] Speaker 2: blood brand, plenty of talent. I've hit on four or
[29:16] Speaker 2: five years in a row. I've my double the Wind
[29:18] Speaker 2: Total team back twenty twenty two it was the Vikings,
[29:21] Speaker 2: than the Rams, then than it was last year Washington,
[29:29] Speaker 2: and this year it was New England and Seattle. I've said,
[29:34] Speaker 2: if John Harbaugh got the Giants or Kevin Stefanski got
[29:37] Speaker 2: the Giants, They're might double the wind Total team. I
[29:40] Speaker 2: think there. I actually think Harbaugh makes a little more
[29:43] Speaker 2: sense because their culture so weak. Wouldn't it be ironic
[29:47] Speaker 2: if Stefanski Cleveland fire Stefanski, he owes to Baltimore and
[29:51] Speaker 2: kicks their ass for eight years.
[29:53] Speaker 1: Yeah, which is well I thought. I thought firing Stefanski
[29:56] Speaker 1: was one of the more arrogant things we've seen in
[29:58] Speaker 1: the NFL. Is amazing, amazing. I'm not saying that he's
[30:01] Speaker 1: like some sort of like schematic genius. And I think
[30:04] Speaker 1: the Coach of the Year award is terribly flawed and
[30:08] Speaker 1: how we give it out, Like I remember when Matt
[30:09] Speaker 1: Naggie won Coach of the Year for the Bears because
[30:12] Speaker 1: Vic Fangio's defense got thirty six takeaways. I was like, well,
[30:14] Speaker 1: how does what the hell's going on here? So like
[30:17] Speaker 1: two time Coach of the years only goes so far
[30:19] Speaker 1: with me. But he's clearly a good coach, yes, and
[30:22] Speaker 1: so I think like he's the problem in Cleveland is
[30:25] Speaker 1: pure insanity and be hilarious if he did that and
[30:28] Speaker 1: kick their ass Like you said, I know you like
[30:30] Speaker 1: guys with theories and half baked ideas. Whatever the case
[30:34] Speaker 1: may be, how many of the following examples, if time
[30:40] Speaker 1: travel existed, would go back and make thee at the
[30:45] Speaker 1: time indefensible decision to fire the successful head coach to
[30:52] Speaker 1: not let the genius out of the building. I'm talking about,
[30:56] Speaker 1: Like how much does Tampa wish they had fired Todd
[30:59] Speaker 1: Bowles to keep Liam Cohen? How much does Baltimore wish
[31:04] Speaker 1: they had moved on from John Harbaugh a little earlier
[31:06] Speaker 1: and then they'd have Mike McDonald Dan Campbell in Detroit
[31:11] Speaker 1: Ben Johnson, Like you can't let the young play calling
[31:19] Speaker 1: genius out the door because of like status quo and culture.
[31:26] Speaker 1: If you would have suggested firing Dan Campbell for Ben Johnson,
[31:30] Speaker 1: that would have been a hot take for clicks if
[31:33] Speaker 1: you could. If the trade was offered tomorrow, Ben Johnson
[31:37] Speaker 1: for Dan Campbell, you'd do it. The Bears would hang
[31:39] Speaker 1: up the phone like and laugh at the proposition, and
[31:43] Speaker 1: Detroit would I would think, do it in a heartbeat,
[31:45] Speaker 1: and Todd Bowles Liam Cohn's not even a question. And
[31:49] Speaker 1: obviously Mike McDonald would be a home run higher for
[31:52] Speaker 1: Baltimore if he was available, and he was an assistant
[31:54] Speaker 1: there under Harball. Yeah, so maybe it's like maybe this
[31:58] Speaker 1: is Monday Morning quarterback it because you didn't know how
[32:01] Speaker 1: good all of those guys are. But your job, if
[32:03] Speaker 1: they're in your building is to know how good they are.
[32:06] Speaker 1: And I just think there's something there of like if
[32:10] Speaker 1: you think that the genius is actually not the top person,
[32:14] Speaker 1: fire your top person to promote your genius.
[32:17] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's I think it's really hard. It's
[32:21] Speaker 2: it's the classic easier said than done. Because I do
[32:23] Speaker 2: think Dan Campbell is really built a good culture. I
[32:26] Speaker 2: think it's much und undeniably. Yeah. And also Mike McDonald
[32:34] Speaker 2: and Sean McVay, who really are kind of really the
[32:37] Speaker 2: same guy one offense and one defense, like the good looking, confident, likable,
[32:43] Speaker 2: very pro player. But don't push them. I mean Mike
[32:48] Speaker 2: McDonald's like, I don't want DK Metcalf in the building.
[32:50] Speaker 2: DK Mtcalf's gone right like and and by the way,
[32:54] Speaker 2: Sean McVeigh has done this. I've I told a friend,
[32:56] Speaker 2: I said, I would not be shocked if Pooka's gone
[32:59] Speaker 2: in the offseason. I would not be shocked. It's a
[33:02] Speaker 2: very good receiver draft. Again, they've got two ones, a
[33:04] Speaker 2: two of three. They need to tackle a corner. It's
[33:08] Speaker 2: not a good quarterback draft. They took a second round,
[33:11] Speaker 2: third round. If they took a wide receiver, it would
[33:13] Speaker 2: not shock me. Is you've got to be brutal in
[33:16] Speaker 2: this business.
[33:17] Speaker 1: You know.
[33:18] Speaker 2: It's funny. I read something about John Harbaugh, a former
[33:21] Speaker 2: Raven player, said he says he's an unbelievable culture builder.
[33:26] Speaker 2: He could be a little bit more compassionate. And I thought,
[33:30] Speaker 2: that's a player talking. And it's really hard to be
[33:33] Speaker 2: compassionate if you're running a network, you're running a football team,
[33:37] Speaker 2: you're running a company, because in the end, you have
[33:40] Speaker 2: to make these awful, brutal decisions. And I think, I mean,
[33:43] Speaker 2: I ripped the Lions. This was my I think I've
[33:47] Speaker 2: told you this. The greater the loss, the wider the search.
[33:53] Speaker 2: When Jim Harbaugh leaves Michigan. You can't give it to
[33:56] Speaker 2: an assistant. When Ben Johnson leaves, you can't say, hey,
[34:00] Speaker 2: the guy that shared the room with him. And I
[34:02] Speaker 2: think it's a classic flaw in hiring is that you
[34:05] Speaker 2: think proximity to genius equals genius, and it does not
[34:09] Speaker 2: proximity to a great mentor like Belichick's not a great
[34:13] Speaker 2: mentor McVeigh is. But even mcveigh's coaches Raheem Morris just
[34:18] Speaker 2: got fired Zach Taylor. So just all this stuff is
[34:24] Speaker 2: fascinating to talk about. I think the bigger mistake teams
[34:26] Speaker 2: make is that when the genius leaves, because it is
[34:29] Speaker 2: hard to fire Dan Campbell and replace him. The key
[34:33] Speaker 2: is when the genius leaves, you have to have a
[34:36] Speaker 2: global search. You never ever replace the genius boy Wonder
[34:41] Speaker 2: with guy down the hallway that makes everybody laugh in
[34:45] Speaker 2: the film room.
[34:46] Speaker 1: You have to go.
[34:46] Speaker 2: And so I think that's the mistake. The genius leaves
[34:49] Speaker 2: and everybody's like, well, Bob knows our culture, it doesn't matter.
[34:54] Speaker 1: Go hire.
[34:54] Speaker 2: You've heard a prof g before, Scott Galloway. He says
[34:58] Speaker 2: this interviewing is overrated when you own, when you have
[35:01] Speaker 2: a company, the volume. We've done a lot of this.
[35:03] Speaker 2: I didn't know it was smart. It was just this
[35:04] Speaker 2: is how I Ball was operated in my life. The
[35:07] Speaker 2: first thing I asked Nick right is, hey, who's the
[35:09] Speaker 2: smartest young talented guy?
[35:10] Speaker 1: You know?
[35:11] Speaker 2: In radio goes there's a guy named Danny Parkins. I'm like,
[35:13] Speaker 2: all right, so I go listen to Chicaga Radio for
[35:15] Speaker 2: an hour and I'm like, oh, yeah, that guy's gonna
[35:17] Speaker 2: be really good. Just go ask your smartest friends who's
[35:22] Speaker 2: the smartest guy? You know, who's the best guy? Yes,
[35:25] Speaker 2: smart people hang out with smart people. A's hang out
[35:27] Speaker 2: with a's, b's hang out with c's and proft G
[35:30] Speaker 2: says interviewing is ridiculous. He goes, ninety nine percent of
[35:33] Speaker 2: the time, just ask all the smart people in your building,
[35:35] Speaker 2: Like tell Ben way to kick ass, who would you
[35:40] Speaker 2: who's the smartest guy? You know? It's never the guy
[35:44] Speaker 2: down the wholeway. I know it's cruel sounding, but it
[35:46] Speaker 2: never is.
[35:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that is pretty accurate. Yeah, and like, listen,
[35:53] Speaker 1: the examples I gave are the most current examples. And yes,
[35:56] Speaker 1: firing John Harball would have been kind of crazy. A
[36:00] Speaker 1: couple of years ago and Dan Campbell would have been
[36:02] Speaker 1: in defensible Todd Bowles for Liam Cohen. You probably could
[36:07] Speaker 1: have done that one, you know what I mean. He's like,
[36:10] Speaker 1: wait a minute, Oh my god, this guy got to
[36:13] Speaker 1: Baker Mayfield had the best season of his life.
[36:15] Speaker 2: Baker dropped off severely this year.
[36:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, and then he shows up with Trevor Lawrence who
[36:21] Speaker 1: had been the same guy for five years, and now
[36:23] Speaker 1: he's immediately awesome. And Travis Etn who had been a
[36:26] Speaker 1: disappointment his whole career, is immediately awesome. Like that guy's
[36:30] Speaker 1: probably awesome.
[36:32] Speaker 2: Listen, you and I have talked about this in our
[36:35] Speaker 2: careers off the air. Don't just chase money, chase good management,
[36:39] Speaker 2: because if you work hard and you love what you do,
[36:41] Speaker 2: you'll find money. In any business, you'll find it. Maybe
[36:43] Speaker 2: not if you're an elementary school teacher, but in most businesses.
[36:46] Speaker 2: If you work hard, find something you're good at, if
[36:48] Speaker 2: you'll love it, you'll do well. What Ben Johnson has
[36:51] Speaker 2: actually done in Chicago, I think is a little like
[36:57] Speaker 2: we all know he's good. I don't even think we
[37:01] Speaker 2: know how good Ben Johnson is because you know this
[37:05] Speaker 2: McCaskey family. I'll just be democratic. It's a little dysfunctional.
[37:14] Speaker 2: Kevin Warren is not considered one of the strongest team presidents.
[37:18] Speaker 2: I think Ryan Polls has some hits. I don't want
[37:22] Speaker 2: to judge Ryan because he has absolutely. I mean, he's
[37:25] Speaker 2: missed on a few people. It's in exact, he's also
[37:28] Speaker 2: hit on a lot of draft picks. We have to
[37:29] Speaker 2: be fair, Yeah, right.
[37:31] Speaker 1: Ryan Poles has some grand slams, yes, and a lot
[37:34] Speaker 1: of strikeouts.
[37:34] Speaker 2: That's okay, Yes, but he's got some hits he deserves.
[37:37] Speaker 2: He's got some hits, definitely. But it was so dysfunctional
[37:45] Speaker 2: last year. And if you go back to camp when
[37:48] Speaker 2: he was really hard on Caleb and he's like, we're
[37:50] Speaker 2: not good. McVeigh succeeds, but I mean, let's be honest,
[37:57] Speaker 2: like Stan Kronkey is like the second just owner. It's
[38:03] Speaker 2: not that it was easy with GoF, but GoF. GoF
[38:06] Speaker 2: was a classic dropback guy. I always felt like in
[38:10] Speaker 2: Los Angeles the Jeff Fisher's maybe maybe I'm I guess
[38:14] Speaker 2: my whole point is this is that maybe it all
[38:19] Speaker 2: blows up next year like dan Quinn Washington and it
[38:22] Speaker 2: just all unravels. But I think Ben Johnson, I think
[38:26] Speaker 2: we have our next McVeigh.
[38:29] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, so I don't even.
[38:30] Speaker 2: Think it's I think he is that good.
[38:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Listen, do I have like some bias
[38:38] Speaker 1: that you could just signed to this? Sure? Do you
[38:40] Speaker 1: have some like cope copium or hope trafficking that I'm
[38:44] Speaker 1: doing for myself? Sure? Like I've fallen for coaches and
[38:47] Speaker 1: I've fallen for quarterbacks before. This is very clearly different.
[38:52] Speaker 1: It's it just it is very clearly different. He And
[38:57] Speaker 1: that's why the Dan Campbell culture thing, it's like, I
[38:59] Speaker 1: don't know, Ben Johnson changed the culture prett damn quick.
[39:03] Speaker 1: Winning an accountability helps, it's a it's a good way
[39:07] Speaker 1: to it's a good place to start with culture. And
[39:10] Speaker 1: I loved what he apparently told the team, you know,
[39:12] Speaker 1: after that loss in week eighteen. He basically came in
[39:15] Speaker 1: and said, I don't want you to show up to
[39:17] Speaker 1: the facility tomorrow if you are thinking about your vacation
[39:23] Speaker 1: or if you are not physically or mentally prepared to
[39:26] Speaker 1: be here every day and give us everything you have
[39:30] Speaker 1: for the next five weeks, because that's what it will
[39:32] Speaker 1: take to win a super Bowl. And it's just like,
[39:36] Speaker 1: holy shit, like high standards, expectations, willing to back it up,
[39:44] Speaker 1: Like iired from someone that Ben Johnson does all of
[39:47] Speaker 1: the installs, not like like not just like the first fifteen,
[39:53] Speaker 1: like the third down, the red zone, that doesn't delineate
[39:56] Speaker 1: it to position. Coaches doesn't like, you know, give the
[40:00] Speaker 1: tight ends. Coach one doesn't give it. He does all
[40:02] Speaker 1: of it's he clearly sleeps at the facility. Some like
[40:05] Speaker 1: he's the type of guy that we're going to look
[40:07] Speaker 1: at him in ten years and be like, oh my god,
[40:08] Speaker 1: it was like a presidency like he is. He is
[40:11] Speaker 1: a maniacal worker, and he's an awesome play caller, and
[40:16] Speaker 1: he has changed the culture. And I agree with you,
[40:20] Speaker 1: like I think the Bears have a McVeigh shanahan guy,
[40:25] Speaker 1: which is the most valuable thing you can have in
[40:27] Speaker 1: coaching because even if his assistants get poached, you still
[40:31] Speaker 1: have him. It's why genius defensive coach is great, genius
[40:35] Speaker 1: offensive coach is better. Yeah, because stays there and it
[40:38] Speaker 1: gives stability to your quarterback. And then they have a
[40:43] Speaker 1: top five physical talent at the quarterback position. Not saying
[40:48] Speaker 1: he is a top five quarterback, right, but he's a
[40:50] Speaker 1: top five physical teent, no question. And so you now
[40:53] Speaker 1: have if you've got a top five offensive mind with
[40:56] Speaker 1: a top five quarterback talent. And and again this can change.
[41:02] Speaker 1: People get divorced, relationships, you grow apart. Sure, but it
[41:06] Speaker 1: started rocky. And now in week eighteen, Caleb Williams is
[41:11] Speaker 1: wearing Ben Johnson's high school jersey to the game. They
[41:15] Speaker 1: love each other, Colin, Yeah, It's what I've wanted my
[41:18] Speaker 1: whole life. And you know, honestly, like Andy Reid is
[41:22] Speaker 1: going to coach for as long as health will allow
[41:24] Speaker 1: him to because he found Patrick Mahomes late in life
[41:28] Speaker 1: and it's like the perfect mind. Like, so, I legitimately
[41:32] Speaker 1: will be shocked if Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams are
[41:36] Speaker 1: not the quarterback and coach of the Bears in twenty
[41:39] Speaker 1: thirty five, I will be shocked by it.
[41:48] Speaker 2: This will probably go viral. So years ago, I forget
[41:53] Speaker 2: who was doing this, but somebody ranked the best thirty
[41:56] Speaker 2: dunks of all time and they eliminated the Vince Carter
[42:01] Speaker 2: jumping over the Chinese national team center. So we're gonna
[42:06] Speaker 2: take that one out because it automatically wins. You jumped
[42:09] Speaker 2: over a seven foot man, and so somebody took that
[42:12] Speaker 2: out and started it. So I'm gonna take Andy Reid
[42:16] Speaker 2: out of this question because he's almost Belichickian. Now it's
[42:20] Speaker 2: sort of understood. It's silly. His resume is better his place.
[42:24] Speaker 2: So let's take Andy Reid out of this and let's
[42:27] Speaker 2: go rank the coaches until we get to Ben Johnson. Okay,
[42:34] Speaker 2: so I would go Maxa So, okay, I'm gonna go
[42:37] Speaker 2: McVeigh one.
[42:39] Speaker 1: That's fine. Shanahan too, boy, Jim Harbaugh's good. Jim Harbo's good.
[42:46] Speaker 1: Jim Harbor, Jim Jim Harbaugh. Jim Harbaugh is very good.
[42:51] Speaker 1: And I know, I know you love him.
[42:55] Speaker 2: Okay, here's why Shanahan gets docked for me? Okay, why
[42:58] Speaker 2: doesn't he come? Why is he bad second half trailing?
[43:02] Speaker 2: Because he has the best play sheet in the league,
[43:05] Speaker 2: and he gets glued to his play sheet. He has
[43:10] Speaker 2: the best he is that that is the most sophisticated
[43:13] Speaker 2: play sheet in the league, and the best play caller.
[43:16] Speaker 2: But he there are certain things, you know, I always
[43:19] Speaker 2: had my Aaron Rodgers theory. Why does he have so
[43:21] Speaker 2: few come from behind wins in the fourth fewer than
[43:24] Speaker 2: Derek Carr. Why because Aaron's mood changes after a pick
[43:29] Speaker 2: or two. He literally his mood changes, you can see it,
[43:33] Speaker 2: his body language changes. He has a bizarre few come
[43:38] Speaker 2: from behind wins. He I always said he's not a
[43:40] Speaker 2: foxhole guy. He is a baller, but a little bit
[43:44] Speaker 2: of a Baylor.
[43:45] Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, okay, I but I love this, so I
[43:49] Speaker 1: want to just like stay on it. Like the guy
[43:52] Speaker 1: went to a super Bowl with Jimmy Garoppolo and rock Party.
[43:57] Speaker 1: I feel like it's like that's the only argument I need.
[43:59] Speaker 1: Like Kyle Shanahan, if you can go to a super
[44:01] Speaker 1: Bowl with the last pick in the draft, Okay, so
[44:05] Speaker 1: I'm putting him third, You're putting him second. Yeah, okay,
[44:09] Speaker 1: but but okay, fine, okay, but my but my thing. Okay,
[44:12] Speaker 1: So now Harbaugh, Harbor wins everywhere he goes everywhere. Is
[44:18] Speaker 1: a great culture guy. I don't know, man, I don't know.
[44:27] Speaker 1: Like Ben Johnson calls the plays.
[44:30] Speaker 2: Well, yeah, can we can we have him go through
[44:32] Speaker 2: a full season before.
[44:35] Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like Jim Harbo runs a little bit
[44:38] Speaker 1: too much for my liking, Like he kicks field goals
[44:41] Speaker 1: a little too often for my liking. Okay, I'm just
[44:44] Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like there's it's just it's a little
[44:48] Speaker 1: All I'm saying is we've reached the point of the list.
[44:54] Speaker 1: We've reached the point of the list where you're gonna
[44:56] Speaker 1: at least get me to start making some arguments.
[44:59] Speaker 2: For Okay, that's okay. So I'm like McVeigh, Harbaugh, Shanahan's
[45:06] Speaker 2: lack of second half comebacks bothers me. Shanahan, Third, Mike Rabel, four,
[45:10] Speaker 2: Sean Payton, I would probably I think Peyton's so good.
[45:15] Speaker 2: And by the way, it's all inches here to me,
[45:18] Speaker 2: like I it's inches, it's not feet.
[45:21] Speaker 1: And so I have a question about Mike Rabel. Okay,
[45:23] Speaker 1: I have a question about Mike Rabel. He wins in Tennessee.
[45:28] Speaker 2: With a political bad ownership.
[45:31] Speaker 1: With with with Prime Derrick Henry and A. J. Browne
[45:36] Speaker 1: and Ryan Tannehill. Okay, but they had one great year
[45:43] Speaker 1: and it ended poorly, and yes there was politicking and
[45:46] Speaker 1: all of that. He is clearly a smart coach. He
[45:49] Speaker 1: is clearly uh you know, he plays on the edges
[45:52] Speaker 1: like Belichick, like he knows the rules backwards and forwards,
[45:55] Speaker 1: which I really respect. Josh McDaniels is a top offensive coordinator,
[46:00] Speaker 1: Like how lucky is that? And maybe it's not luck,
[46:02] Speaker 1: it's relationship and Patriots and all that stuff, but like
[46:05] Speaker 1: he has the best offensive coordinator situation you can have,
[46:09] Speaker 1: because it seems like Josh McDaniels can't be a head coach,
[46:12] Speaker 1: right but he's clearly like if we were going to
[46:15] Speaker 1: say best play callers in the game, and again we're
[46:19] Speaker 1: removing Andy Reid, like Josh McDaniels is probably in the
[46:21] Speaker 1: top five, right Josh McDaniels is.
[46:25] Speaker 2: I think he's. I think he's probably he and Brian
[46:27] Speaker 2: Floores are the best coordinators in the game right now.
[46:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, so just like you gave him an incredible
[46:33] Speaker 1: quarterback and an incredible play caller, and an incredible play
[46:35] Speaker 1: caller won't leave because he can't be a head coach.
[46:38] Speaker 1: I just I'll just tell you this right now. I
[46:40] Speaker 1: wouldn't trade Ben Johnson for Mike Rabel. Okay, that one
[46:43] Speaker 1: wouldn't be hard.
[46:44] Speaker 2: Okay, So the difference between you and I, I get
[46:47] Speaker 2: to seven and I'm willing to consider Ben Johnson, So
[46:51] Speaker 2: I go McVeigh, Jim Harbaugh, Shanahan, Peyton Vrabel, and Mike McDonald.
[46:56] Speaker 2: Mike McDonald took over. I think he's I think he's
[47:00] Speaker 2: McVeigh on the defensive side. So I get to seven,
[47:05] Speaker 2: and I could argue, I like Demiko Ryan's but I
[47:08] Speaker 2: do prefer offense over defense. I would go Ben Johnson
[47:12] Speaker 2: seven and then Demiko Ryans eight, and then I'd probably go,
[47:16] Speaker 2: I mean, we have to put Mike Tomlin in there
[47:18] Speaker 2: because goddamn one is division again it's it's so I
[47:22] Speaker 2: would I would the who am I missing?
[47:26] Speaker 1: Now? Listen, you know some people would say Matt Lafleur,
[47:32] Speaker 1: he's good, and I would good. I would take I
[47:34] Speaker 1: would take Ben Johnson over him. Listen, I think I
[47:37] Speaker 1: think not. It's it's very early, but well, Liam Cohen
[47:41] Speaker 1: is doing in Jacksonville's very, very impressive.
[47:43] Speaker 2: I would like him to finish the season. But I agree.
[47:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just saying if I'm going to have Ben
[47:47] Speaker 1: Johnson up there like Lee, because I'm giving Liam Cohen
[47:50] Speaker 1: a lot of credit for what Baker did you know?
[47:53] Speaker 1: So like that.
[47:53] Speaker 2: Here's what's funny. Sean McDermott has a higher winning percentage
[47:56] Speaker 2: than Andy Reid and Belichick. I'm I'm at nine and
[47:59] Speaker 2: I don't have Sean McDermott. That tells you the depth
[48:02] Speaker 2: and coaching.
[48:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, and listen and Nick Sirianni has like the highest
[48:06] Speaker 1: win percentage ever and everyone's like, yeah, but it's a
[48:08] Speaker 1: super team, so like we can we can parse some
[48:10] Speaker 1: stuff here. Sean Payton's great. I would take Ben Johnson
[48:13] Speaker 1: because of age, like I think you have him for longer.
[48:18] Speaker 1: McDonald is incredible. McDonell. And what the Seahawks did in
[48:24] Speaker 1: that Week eighteen game against the Niners, Oh, it.
[48:26] Speaker 2: Was one of the more It's amazing it was only
[48:28] Speaker 2: thirteen to three because it felt thirty to three.
[48:31] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[48:31] Speaker 2: That is the knock I have on Seattle is that
[48:34] Speaker 2: they physically dominate teams. And in the last six weeks,
[48:38] Speaker 2: you're like, I feel like you left fourteen points on
[48:42] Speaker 2: the yeah, on the floor.
[48:44] Speaker 1: Yeah that I mean that JSN is forty percent of
[48:48] Speaker 1: their offense, and you fully trust their court, Like, I mean,
[48:50] Speaker 1: they clearly sometimes call plays to hide Darnold making mistakes.
[48:54] Speaker 1: They'll like snap throw like one read throws like they
[48:59] Speaker 1: like all him out left and look back right and
[49:01] Speaker 1: there's one and it's like throw it to him or
[49:03] Speaker 1: throw it away. So they they clearly don't fully trust Donald,
[49:08] Speaker 1: even though they say everything publicly like their actions in
[49:10] Speaker 1: their play calling when he gets a little shakey, suggested,
[49:13] Speaker 1: But yeah, McDonald doing that. I mean we looked it
[49:16] Speaker 1: up on the show. Fewest yards ever for a Kyle
[49:22] Speaker 1: Shanahan offense since he'd been the head coach in San Francisco,
[49:25] Speaker 1: fewest rushing yards for McCaffrey since he got with Shanahan,
[49:30] Speaker 1: and tied for the fewest points for Shanahan since he
[49:32] Speaker 1: had been in San Francisco since his first game. Shanahan's
[49:36] Speaker 1: first game in San Francisco in twenty seventeen, they scored
[49:39] Speaker 1: three points and then they held him to three points
[49:41] Speaker 1: when they had been the number one offense in football
[49:45] Speaker 1: since Week eleven when Perty came back, they were averaging
[49:47] Speaker 1: thirty five a game. They play a must win game
[49:50] Speaker 1: against the division opponent they know, and they get held
[49:52] Speaker 1: to one hundred and seventy four yards and three points.
[49:54] Speaker 1: So yeah, McDonald is excellent. Like he to me, the
[49:59] Speaker 1: coach of the Year this year is fascinating Vrabel, Ben Johnson,
[50:02] Speaker 1: Liam Cohen, McDonald's Shanahan. With all the injuries, there's you know,
[50:06] Speaker 1: Peyton obviously getting the one seed. There's big names, there's history, guys.
[50:11] Speaker 1: McDonald's probably I think I think he deserves it this year,
[50:14] Speaker 1: and that's over by guy Ben Johnson.
[50:16] Speaker 3: Yeah, because I don't like giving it to just the
[50:22] Speaker 3: guy who improves the most with the wins because Vrabel's
[50:25] Speaker 3: the favorite and everyone thinks Vrabel's gonna win it.
[50:27] Speaker 1: But now they have that Assistant Coach of the Year award,
[50:30] Speaker 1: which I would give to McDaniels.
[50:31] Speaker 2: What makes Seattle scary is they have it's the trifecta.
[50:35] Speaker 2: They have a highly productive quarterback check on a very
[50:40] Speaker 2: team friendly deal, second check, and they don't miss on
[50:44] Speaker 2: draft picks third check. Yeah, So that was their secret
[50:48] Speaker 2: sauce with Russell so Pete. So they had this third
[50:53] Speaker 2: round pick Russell that was highly productive and Pete's first
[50:58] Speaker 2: three years out of college finding you know, cham Chancellor
[51:02] Speaker 2: and Richard Sherman and I mean they were hitting on
[51:06] Speaker 2: fifth and sixth round picks. So it reminds me a
[51:10] Speaker 2: little bit. And and that was a strong run game.
[51:13] Speaker 2: An athletic quarterback who never really you know, a lot
[51:17] Speaker 2: of the analysts and the Greg Cosel like was never
[51:20] Speaker 2: a Russell guy. Uh, and he tended tends to be
[51:24] Speaker 2: right on that stuff. So yeah, I mean it's it's
[51:28] Speaker 2: Seattle's got that's a dangerous that's a dangerous space, highly
[51:32] Speaker 2: productive quarterback, not Panamaton. And they do not miss on
[51:35] Speaker 2: draft picks. Their last nine in the first or second round.
[51:39] Speaker 2: It's nine for nine.
[51:40] Speaker 1: That's yeah. I saw I saw you put that graphic
[51:42] Speaker 1: up on the show the other day. I was mad
[51:44] Speaker 1: at you that I didn't do it first. It's crazy. Yeah,
[51:46] Speaker 1: yeah it was. It was very it was very good.
[51:49] Speaker 1: So that listen, it's the coaching. They a lot of
[51:55] Speaker 1: them get fired right with seven openings right now, so
[51:59] Speaker 1: you can still you can still hire one and have
[52:01] Speaker 1: a huge miss, you know, and it can go like
[52:06] Speaker 1: like I remember you and I disagreed. You liked the
[52:07] Speaker 1: Pete Carroll higher. I didn't, but I fully admitted to
[52:10] Speaker 1: you that a little bit of that was agism. Yes,
[52:13] Speaker 1: I was super skeptical.
[52:15] Speaker 2: I thought it was. I thought it was a stabilizing
[52:17] Speaker 2: I still picked them for fourth, Like I didn't think
[52:19] Speaker 2: they'd be any good. I just didn't think they'd be
[52:22] Speaker 2: the worst team. Yeah, offensively in you know, bordering on
[52:27] Speaker 2: in ten years.
[52:28] Speaker 1: Yeah, and listen, and again, like I fully I don't
[52:31] Speaker 1: want to be agist, but like if you're trying to
[52:33] Speaker 1: coach twenty two to thirty two year old men, and
[52:37] Speaker 1: you're trying to compete with like Mit Sloan analytics type
[52:42] Speaker 1: people and like the game is changing in sports and
[52:44] Speaker 1: sports medicine and sports science, and go for it on
[52:47] Speaker 1: fourth and go for two down eight when you cut
[52:50] Speaker 1: the lead from fourteen to eight. Because of this, this
[52:52] Speaker 1: is like, you know, I tend to be biased towards
[52:55] Speaker 1: like the younger people who buy into it, and so
[52:57] Speaker 1: I just I think Ben Johnson is he's just he's
[53:01] Speaker 1: that guy. Like I'm just I'm just I'm positive of it. Yeah,
[53:04] Speaker 1: I'll be I'll be floored. I don't even know, Like
[53:09] Speaker 1: what would the example be of someone that you would
[53:13] Speaker 1: say that, like you thought was the boy one, like
[53:17] Speaker 1: Mike McDaniel.
[53:18] Speaker 2: Maybe I never I never bought into him. Yeah when
[53:24] Speaker 2: he and by the way, he's still there. Like I
[53:26] Speaker 2: think Mike McDaniel is a pretty good coach because he's
[53:31] Speaker 2: because of if you can if you have a quarterback
[53:34] Speaker 2: who can't throw the ball downfield and he can't see
[53:37] Speaker 2: over the offensive line, and you still are a effective
[53:40] Speaker 2: offense when he's out there, I'm like, hey, you're probably
[53:43] Speaker 2: a pretty good play caller. You probably run a pretty
[53:45] Speaker 2: good I've said before, keeping too and Mike McDaniel for
[53:48] Speaker 2: a year. It's not crazy. You got to pay two anyway.
[53:51] Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, just just I mean, listen, I always
[53:55] Speaker 2: thought career the general manager, I never could understand this.
[54:00] Speaker 2: So let's I mean, you draft Tua, then you draft
[54:03] Speaker 2: ja Jaylen Waddle, you've got your deep threat. Two was
[54:06] Speaker 2: not a deep ball arm It's very His comp was
[54:11] Speaker 2: Drew Brees. So we're gonna get We're gonna give up
[54:13] Speaker 2: all sorts of draft capital, and we're gonna get that.
[54:15] Speaker 2: This the fastest guy we've already got Waddle. And oh,
[54:18] Speaker 2: by the way, we're gonna mostly ignore the offensive line
[54:22] Speaker 2: with a quarterback with injury history and have the worst
[54:24] Speaker 2: backup situation in the line. None of that's Mike mcdaniell.
[54:28] Speaker 2: None of that's Mike McDaniel's fault. None of it.
[54:31] Speaker 1: No. I agree, I agree completely, and not to like
[54:33] Speaker 1: talk too much Dolphins, but about my point was more
[54:35] Speaker 1: like when the young guy comes on the scene and
[54:39] Speaker 1: you just like normally you can be like, oh, yeah,
[54:42] Speaker 1: that's McVeigh, that's Shanahan, and I think that's Ben Johnson,
[54:45] Speaker 1: Like I did not crown Jadeen Daniels the way everyone
[54:49] Speaker 1: else crowned him. I did not crown c J Stroud
[54:51] Speaker 1: the way everyone else crowned him. For their after their
[54:56] Speaker 1: breakout years, I thought it was I thought they're obviously impressive.
[54:58] Speaker 1: I thought I said Daniel was the best I'd ever seen,
[55:01] Speaker 1: but like I wasn't ready to say he was going
[55:03] Speaker 1: to be a top five quarterback for ten years. Drake May,
[55:06] Speaker 1: I think is different. Yeah, I think Drake May I
[55:10] Speaker 1: will be shocked if he isn't a top ten quarterback
[55:13] Speaker 1: for the next decade. Like I think, I think he
[55:16] Speaker 1: he passes it my scouts. I if you will like, yeah,
[55:20] Speaker 1: he passes it for me. So I think sometimes I
[55:22] Speaker 1: just trust that you can see it with the young
[55:25] Speaker 1: guys like coach and quarterback. And I think I think
[55:28] Speaker 1: that Ben Johnson is a yes, and Drake May is
[55:30] Speaker 1: a yes. And by the way, I think I think
[55:31] Speaker 1: Caleb is a yes too. By the way, Yeah, you
[55:33] Speaker 1: know the Mike McDaniel thing. I think Nick Wright said
[55:35] Speaker 1: this too, is the media loved him because he looks
[55:38] Speaker 1: like the media is. Yeah, I was totally guilty of that.
[55:42] Speaker 1: I will fully admit that. Yeah, he had funny, quirks,
[55:46] Speaker 1: snarky yeah yeah, yes, and smart, yeah, clearly smart. Sarcastic. Yeah,
[55:52] Speaker 1: I fully admit that that was a thing for me.
[55:54] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I Tom Tellasco told me this years ago.
[55:58] Speaker 2: He said, you're really hiring a CEO. He goes, if
[56:02] Speaker 2: you get schemes, what a bonus. He goes, But there's
[56:05] Speaker 2: not that many Andy Reids and Kyle Shanahan. He goes,
[56:07] Speaker 2: you're really hiring a CEO like Vrabel Jim and John Harbaugh. Again,
[56:12] Speaker 2: Sean Payton's rare. He can do schemes and personnel. But
[56:15] Speaker 2: I mean, really what you want is a walk around
[56:18] Speaker 2: guy that builds a culture. That's really the key to
[56:20] Speaker 2: all this stuff. And that's where I thought McDaniels would miss.
[56:23] Speaker 2: I mean, he's he's he's a small guy. He's not
[56:26] Speaker 2: he's funny, but he's kind of odd at the podium.
[56:28] Speaker 2: He stutters, he doesn't make eye contact. And I'm like, boy,
[56:32] Speaker 2: that's a hard sell in a room on a Monday
[56:34] Speaker 2: after a tough loss. I'm not sure that works. But
[56:37] Speaker 2: to your point, he's not the problem there. I don't
[56:40] Speaker 2: think he's the primary issue.
[56:42] Speaker 1: No, And I like, if he got fired. I'd want,
[56:46] Speaker 1: you know, like if Brian Flores got a head coaching
[56:50] Speaker 1: job and he got to hire Mike McDaniel as his
[56:52] Speaker 1: offensive coordinator and be like, oh, that's.
[56:54] Speaker 2: Here's what's funny. Flores was kind of thought of as
[56:58] Speaker 2: a jerk. I would hire Brian Floor's one second. McDaniels
[57:02] Speaker 2: is beloved as one of the nicest guys. I would
[57:05] Speaker 2: never give him a second head coaching job. Like in
[57:07] Speaker 2: the end, football's harsh, Like there is there is that
[57:11] Speaker 2: argument that like Kurt Signetti has never smiled like the
[57:14] Speaker 2: guys that smile. Pete Carroll smiles a lot on the sideline,
[57:18] Speaker 2: Kurt Signetti does not smile. Ben Johnson does not smile.
[57:23] Speaker 2: Kyle Shanahan. I mean, it is They're just something to
[57:27] Speaker 2: be said about football's hard. Football coaching is hard, and
[57:30] Speaker 2: it's it is a can be a very miserable experience.
[57:34] Speaker 2: And if I get you know, Jerry Glanville, Sam wish,
[57:38] Speaker 2: they were too damn good at the podium. They were
[57:40] Speaker 2: just too good at the podium for me.
[57:43] Speaker 1: Well, but then Tomlin is incredible at the podium.
[57:45] Speaker 2: He's the best in the history of football. He's the
[57:48] Speaker 2: There's not a second place.
[57:50] Speaker 1: Yeah, he's incredible at it. And if he loses to Houston,
[57:58] Speaker 1: the seventh straight playoff losses going back to twenty sixteen
[58:02] Speaker 1: for him, comin to me is a weird one to evaluate.
[58:05] Speaker 1: Obviously from what you're talking about the CEO.
[58:09] Speaker 2: Well, there's something I think what he is. I think
[58:12] Speaker 2: he does some things extraordinarily well, like he's really good.
[58:19] Speaker 2: I mean he's always done this. If you give him
[58:20] Speaker 2: a Monday night game, it's a big stage. He has
[58:23] Speaker 2: an extra day. He really can sell to a team,
[58:28] Speaker 2: like I think they're gonna give Hugh. I think they
[58:29] Speaker 2: can beat Houston. I honestly do. I think Mike is
[58:33] Speaker 2: one of the great motivators. I mean, if you told
[58:36] Speaker 2: me one coach gets out of coaching, two coaches get
[58:39] Speaker 2: out of coaching and become huge motivational speakers, I would
[58:41] Speaker 2: say McVeigh, Tomlin, they're just unbelievable, like they just as
[58:46] Speaker 2: a guy, I would run through a wall for McVeigh
[58:49] Speaker 2: and Tomlin, whereas Shanahan is like a mad scientist. I
[58:53] Speaker 2: don't know if I'd run through a wall, but I'd
[58:55] Speaker 2: be like, God, that guy's brilliant. I think Ben Johnson
[58:58] Speaker 2: has got a little bit of that McVeigh Tomlin thing
[59:01] Speaker 2: where it's like, boy, he's a you'd run through a wall.
[59:05] Speaker 2: I watched those postgame speeches. I'm like, man, that is effective.
[59:08] Speaker 2: That works.
[59:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, they've I mean I've talked to players on the
[59:12] Speaker 1: team like they've Like one guy told me he's like
[59:15] Speaker 1: I kind of thought it was corny the first time
[59:17] Speaker 1: I heard it, and then by the third time I
[59:19] Speaker 1: heard it, I thought it was like, you know, it
[59:21] Speaker 1: was like the scene in Braveheart, Like you know what
[59:24] Speaker 1: I mean, Like it's like there's something too what that is,
[59:28] Speaker 1: what that ability is in him? And yeah, you know
[59:31] Speaker 1: Ben ben Johnson is again, he's it's the best of
[59:34] Speaker 1: both worlds. He's I mean, he ripped his shirt off
[59:36] Speaker 1: in the locker room and it played and it wasn't corny.
[59:40] Speaker 1: Oh they all loved it and the city loved it
[59:43] Speaker 1: and the whole thing, and so yeah, like he I
[59:45] Speaker 1: think I think Ben Johnson's both And yeah, Mike Tomlin is.
[59:48] Speaker 1: He's an incredible eleven out of ten leader and speaker
[59:53] Speaker 1: who teams give up thirty eight a game in these
[59:59] Speaker 1: playoff losses, and he can't find an offensive coordinator and
[1:00:02] Speaker 1: he can't find a quarterback on forty like you know
[1:00:04] Speaker 1: what I mean. Like so like there's high floor, low
[1:00:07] Speaker 1: ceiling right, high floor low, maybe that's it. Yeah, but no.
[1:00:11] Speaker 1: But by the way, if you told me, like if
[1:00:16] Speaker 1: if they if they did the mutual parting of ways
[1:00:18] Speaker 1: thing and Mike Tomlin got to go coach Cincinnati, I'd
[1:00:28] Speaker 1: be like, oh, well that I mean, they're gonna win
[1:00:29] Speaker 1: super Oh I would.
[1:00:30] Speaker 2: I said this on the air, I would hire him
[1:00:31] Speaker 2: in Miami in thirty seconds.
[1:00:34] Speaker 1: I'm just saying, if you gave him a if you
[1:00:36] Speaker 1: gave him a quarterback. Yeah, Like if you told me
[1:00:39] Speaker 1: Mike Tomlin has a top ten quarterback.
[1:00:41] Speaker 2: Okay, let's say McDermott loses fired, Mike goes to Allen
[1:00:46] Speaker 2: that's a super.
[1:00:47] Speaker 1: Bowl immediately, immediately. Yeah. Yeah. Like so I'm not like
[1:00:51] Speaker 1: when when I criticized Tomlin, it's not I don't think
[1:00:55] Speaker 1: he's a great football exactly. He's obviously a great football coach.
[1:00:59] Speaker 1: It's just I would I the things that he has
[1:01:03] Speaker 1: not been able to do.
[1:01:05] Speaker 2: He can't fix the run game. It's like it's eight years.
[1:01:09] Speaker 2: Fix the run.
[1:01:10] Speaker 1: Game, find a quarterback, find an offensive coordinator, Like he
[1:01:15] Speaker 1: doesn't have a coaching tree. It's just you know, it's
[1:01:18] Speaker 1: he is a great football coach that like would win
[1:01:23] Speaker 1: state championships in high school, like, you know, because he's
[1:01:26] Speaker 1: just a great motivator. But like that can clearly take
[1:01:29] Speaker 1: you far ish because it's football.
[1:01:32] Speaker 2: I think that's what you said, incredibly high floor. But
[1:01:36] Speaker 2: I think as the game has shift to do offense,
[1:01:40] Speaker 2: it does feel like his ceiling over the last ten years,
[1:01:43] Speaker 2: because it's like eighteen years ago they won the Super
[1:01:45] Speaker 2: Bowl of Airson. It does feel like over the last
[1:01:48] Speaker 2: eighteen years he was a high ceiling, high floor guy.
[1:01:53] Speaker 2: Now he's a high floor guy, and it feels like
[1:01:54] Speaker 2: the ceiling has come down a little bit.
[1:01:57] Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And like not that it ever was a
[1:01:59] Speaker 1: shot of working, but like if Kenny Pickett would have
[1:02:02] Speaker 1: been awesome, then the Steelers would be awesome. Yeah, but
[1:02:06] Speaker 1: they're too good to draft high to get a real prospect,
[1:02:10] Speaker 1: and quarterbacks don't generally leave in free agency unless they're
[1:02:13] Speaker 1: super flawed or forty you know, And so it's like, Okay,
[1:02:17] Speaker 1: what are you going to do? How are you going
[1:02:19] Speaker 1: to get Mike Tomlin a great quarterback in Pittsburgh? How
[1:02:22] Speaker 1: are you gonna do it? Because he's not able to
[1:02:24] Speaker 1: do it.
[1:02:24] Speaker 2: Will you do it next year? Because that draft with
[1:02:27] Speaker 2: arch Manning, potentially Dante More the kid at Texas Tech
[1:02:30] Speaker 2: that just transferred, next year's draft could have seven first
[1:02:33] Speaker 2: round quarterbacks and there you go. There you go. That's
[1:02:36] Speaker 2: when you go get them.
[1:02:37] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there you go. But so congratulations on another
[1:02:41] Speaker 1: year of ten and seven.
[1:02:44] Speaker 2: And I I really feel I'm watching that and I'm like,
[1:02:51] Speaker 2: gain Well, dk Metcalf, Friarmuth, Jalen Warren, Aaron doesn't make
[1:02:56] Speaker 2: mistakes or throw picks.
[1:02:57] Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, the only thing is the only thing.
[1:03:03] Speaker 2: Houston doesn't score in the red zone. They're a bad
[1:03:06] Speaker 2: red zone team.
[1:03:06] Speaker 1: I don't. I don't trust Stroud as much as you do.
[1:03:08] Speaker 2: I like him a lot, but he they're just a
[1:03:11] Speaker 2: bad red zone offense.
[1:03:13] Speaker 1: Yeah, I just but Aaron doesn't want to be hit.
[1:03:19] Speaker 1: And and there's Daniel Hunter and Wilhelms, I know, you know,
[1:03:23] Speaker 1: and like so I just like, no, their offensive line
[1:03:26] Speaker 1: isn't as bad as the Chargers, but like the Texans are.
[1:03:28] Speaker 1: I think the Texans are the team that no one
[1:03:32] Speaker 1: wants to play because that's just a problem for it
[1:03:35] Speaker 1: not that they're again their offense is bad, but like
[1:03:39] Speaker 1: it's just that's a mismatch for every team.
[1:03:41] Speaker 2: And the other thing about Houston, it's such an indictment
[1:03:45] Speaker 2: on Belichick. So Nick Cassario is in New England for
[1:03:47] Speaker 2: years and they cannot draft like receivers and tight ends.
[1:03:51] Speaker 2: He goes to Houston. He is the you know, he
[1:03:55] Speaker 2: finds Woody Marks and Tank Dell and it's like, oh, yeah,
[1:04:01] Speaker 2: like Houston's actually been one of the better drafting teams
[1:04:04] Speaker 2: in the league for like three years.
[1:04:06] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:04:07] Speaker 2: The guy in New England. New England was the last
[1:04:10] Speaker 2: six years of Belichick. They were an absolutely atrocious drafting
[1:04:15] Speaker 2: team on offense. Atrocious. The guy who was in the
[1:04:18] Speaker 2: building goes to Houston and now he's just finding guys
[1:04:21] Speaker 2: in the sixth round in your life. So that's another reason,
[1:04:25] Speaker 2: like Belichick old defensive guy. You like, just go look
[1:04:27] Speaker 2: at Houston's drafting. Why couldn't they draft for like the
[1:04:30] Speaker 2: last six years of Belichick Because Belichick I was told
[1:04:35] Speaker 2: this for years. You'd get to January and Bill would
[1:04:38] Speaker 2: call off the scouting department. I'll take it from here.
[1:04:40] Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, all right, Danny Parkins, good talking, buddy.
[1:04:45] Speaker 1: Yeah. The hour flies by. As always, I went zero
[1:04:48] Speaker 1: and six down the stretch picking games on TV to
[1:04:51] Speaker 1: lose the Picks contest to Nick Wright. So I've got
[1:04:53] Speaker 1: to go. I've got to get hot for the playoffs.
[1:04:55] Speaker 2: So I went three and two to close sixty percent
[1:04:57] Speaker 2: on the year.
[1:04:58] Speaker 1: That's great.
[1:05:00] Speaker 2: I felt good. A lot of people said that the
[1:05:03] Speaker 2: lines I was, I was. You know, that's what happens.
[1:05:07] Speaker 2: The wind blows harder at the top of the mountain.
[1:05:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, I listen, I do. I maybe notice that you
[1:05:14] Speaker 1: do a bit of wine shopping, you know, But again,
[1:05:18] Speaker 1: you're you're Colin Counter.
[1:05:20] Speaker 2: Come on, you can see.
[1:05:23] Speaker 1: That's how the pros do it. You think you're only
[1:05:25] Speaker 1: you're you're only better at one place. You get to,
[1:05:27] Speaker 1: you get to shop around for the best half point value.
[1:05:30] Speaker 1: That's how that's how it works. That's how it works.
[1:05:32] Speaker 1: Good for you, man, Happy for you, all right, buddy,
[1:05:35] Speaker 1: all right man, I'll see you the volume

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