# Dr. Bernice A. King: How To Achieve Social Justice Through Non-Violence

An episode of [Why Am I Telling You This? with Bill Clinton](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1546915402), 1 Apr 2021, 44 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/075d44aa-9a1e-41aa-8055-ae280053272e/a3df530d-c10d-4f21-8e6b-ae280053fda7/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=00d87679-75e5-4544-b86a-ae2800532740

On August 28, 1963, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. stood in front of the Lincoln Memorial and shared his dream that one day his “four little children would be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.” In the 50-plus years since that hot summer day, our nation has made important progress toward achieving that vision—but it is still painfully clear every day that we have a very long way to go. In this episode, President Clinton speaks with Dr. Bernice A. King, the youngest of the four children Dr. King dreamed for in his most famous speech, who has herself spent a lifetime in pursuit of racial, social, and economic justice. As CEO of the Martin Luther King, Jr. Center for Nonviolent Social Change, Dr. King shares the lessons she learned from her father and mother, civil rights leader Coretta Scott King; how their new BE LOVE campaign is a vision for how to break the chain of hatred and violence; and why the younger generation gives her hope. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Because I have a dream my poor little children one
[0:08] Speaker 1: day live in a nation where they will not be
[0:11] Speaker 1: changed by the color of mass skin, but by the
[0:13] Speaker 1: content of back character. I have a dream I'll never
[0:21] Speaker 1: forget where I was on August when Dr Martin Luther
[0:27] Speaker 1: King stood on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial and
[0:29] Speaker 1: shared his dream. I had just turned seventeen. I was
[0:33] Speaker 1: sitting alone on the recliner in front of the television
[0:36] Speaker 1: and our home and Hot Springs, Arkansas. The speech moved
[0:40] Speaker 1: me to tears, and I wept for a good while
[0:42] Speaker 1: after it was over, filled with both emotion and determination
[0:48] Speaker 1: to do whatever I could for the rest of my
[0:50] Speaker 1: life to make Dr King's dream come true. So why
[0:55] Speaker 1: am I telling you this for two reasons. First of all,
[0:59] Speaker 1: in the fifty plus years since that hot summer day,
[1:03] Speaker 1: we have made important progress, But every day it is
[1:08] Speaker 1: painfully clear that we still have a very long way
[1:11] Speaker 1: to go. The deaths of so many have painfully reminded
[1:16] Speaker 1: us that a person's race still determines how they will
[1:20] Speaker 1: be treated in so many aspects of everyday American life,
[1:25] Speaker 1: and that truth has only been reinforced by the disparities
[1:29] Speaker 1: we see in the human and economic toll of the
[1:31] Speaker 1: COVID nineteen pandemic, and in the many other ways that
[1:36] Speaker 1: embedded racism continues to unfold across our society. So after
[1:42] Speaker 1: all these years, it's still the responsibility of every American,
[1:46] Speaker 1: no matter what their background or what they their day
[1:49] Speaker 1: job is, to stand up and do what they can
[1:53] Speaker 1: to make it better. Today, I'm honored to be joined
[1:56] Speaker 1: by the youngest of those four children Dr King dreamed
[2:01] Speaker 1: of and his most famous speech. She has spent a
[2:04] Speaker 1: lifetime in pursuit of racial, social and economic justice from
[2:11] Speaker 1: the pulpit and from her perch as CEO of the
[2:16] Speaker 1: King Center for Non Violent Social Change. One of the
[2:19] Speaker 1: most remarkable and inspiring people I know, Dr Bernice King,
[2:28] Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. Thank you, President Clinton.
[2:32] Speaker 1: I'm always honored to be in your presence and even
[2:36] Speaker 1: more honored to have this conversation with you today. Well,
[2:40] Speaker 1: you know, we've known each other for a long time now,
[2:42] Speaker 1: and I've always wondered how you came to be who
[2:47] Speaker 1: you were. You could have been forgiven. If you've taken
[2:50] Speaker 1: a whole pass on all this business, if your memories
[2:54] Speaker 1: of standing in the pulpit and standing on the forefront
[2:57] Speaker 1: of social change and the sacrifices inherent and being a
[3:01] Speaker 1: member of your family had been so burdensome. You could
[3:05] Speaker 1: have walked away and been a perfectly fine, perfectly successful
[3:09] Speaker 1: something else, but you didn't. And I'd like to know
[3:13] Speaker 1: what do you think your childhood had to do with it?
[3:16] Speaker 1: And when did you realize the meaning of your father letter,
[3:21] Speaker 1: your mother's work, and how did you come to do
[3:25] Speaker 1: the same thing. Wow, that's a that's a great question.
[3:30] Speaker 1: Um and UM, I want to say it in in
[3:34] Speaker 1: in very short words first and then kind of expound. Uh.
[3:41] Speaker 1: The person I believe who singularly most uh impactful, influential
[3:48] Speaker 1: in my life with my mom. She was an extraordinary
[3:52] Speaker 1: example of what it means to sacrifice and serve humanity
[3:57] Speaker 1: and to do it in a way from a place
[4:00] Speaker 1: should I say, of continual forgiveness. You know. Uh, we
[4:05] Speaker 1: grew up in a household where my mother taught us
[4:09] Speaker 1: early on about not hating and particularly in our instance,
[4:15] Speaker 1: not hating the person who killed our father, um, and
[4:19] Speaker 1: would always invoke my father's words, Um, somebody has to
[4:24] Speaker 1: cut off the chain of violence. Now. As a kid,
[4:27] Speaker 1: you know, I took those words very objectively that somebody
[4:31] Speaker 1: she was talking about somebody, but it wasn't me. Uh
[4:36] Speaker 1: and uh so as as I as I, as I
[4:41] Speaker 1: continued to grow and developed, I came to the understanding
[4:45] Speaker 1: because I was surrounded by all of the work that
[4:51] Speaker 1: she did to build the King's Center into the Martin
[4:55] Speaker 1: of the King's Center for Non Violent Social Change UM
[4:58] Speaker 1: and exposed early onto some of the non violent teachings. UM.
[5:03] Speaker 1: I began to understand that I was being drawn into this,
[5:08] Speaker 1: although I was very resistant because of the emotional trauma
[5:13] Speaker 1: that I suffered from my father's assassination at the age
[5:16] Speaker 1: of five, my uncle being mysteriously found in his pool
[5:20] Speaker 1: with awarding his lungs I was six, my grandmother being
[5:24] Speaker 1: shot in church when I was eleven years of age. UM.
[5:28] Speaker 1: You know, trying to manage all of the barrage of
[5:31] Speaker 1: emotions that I was experiencing as a result of those
[5:34] Speaker 1: tragedies was was very difficult, and it landed me for
[5:38] Speaker 1: a season in a place of a lot of hate, uh,
[5:44] Speaker 1: hostility and anger, and um you know, I had to
[5:50] Speaker 1: wrestle with that. Being in a family that taught about love,
[5:54] Speaker 1: that taught about not just taught it, lived it uh
[5:57] Speaker 1: lived love, Live forgiveness. Um, and so I I was
[6:03] Speaker 1: on this journey. I got a call into ministry when
[6:06] Speaker 1: I was seventeen, and it was really just right before
[6:10] Speaker 1: that call where I came into a great understanding of
[6:17] Speaker 1: the work that my parents were involved in. I mean
[6:19] Speaker 1: we were, we were exposed to it as children, and
[6:23] Speaker 1: me in particular, I didn't get the same exposure as
[6:26] Speaker 1: my siblings because they were able to participate in at
[6:30] Speaker 1: least one or two things that my father did. I
[6:33] Speaker 1: never participated in anything. But I got an opportunity to
[6:36] Speaker 1: hear about things growing up. And I got an opportunity
[6:40] Speaker 1: to see the documentary Montgomery to Memphis, and when I
[6:43] Speaker 1: was sixteen, I recommended that we view that for our
[6:49] Speaker 1: youth group retreat youth group at the church, and I
[6:53] Speaker 1: had seen it many times, but this particular time, I
[6:56] Speaker 1: started crying and boo hooing, and um. We were in
[6:59] Speaker 1: the North Georgia mountains and I ran out of the
[7:02] Speaker 1: cabinet up into the woods. Some folks followed me, and uh,
[7:07] Speaker 1: you know, they decided to kinda bring me back into
[7:11] Speaker 1: the inside. Upstairs, there was a bedroom and laid across
[7:16] Speaker 1: the bed and I for two hours. I was just
[7:18] Speaker 1: crying and saying, why, you know, why did you leave?
[7:21] Speaker 1: Why did you take them? You know, just a bunch
[7:23] Speaker 1: of wives. And after uh, I finished crying in my
[7:28] Speaker 1: heart and mind, I said, I'm done with you God,
[7:32] Speaker 1: I'm done with Church. Well I could only do it,
[7:35] Speaker 1: you know, in my mind and heart, because I was
[7:36] Speaker 1: in my mother's house. Um. And uh, it was at
[7:41] Speaker 1: that age I realized the fullness of it. And I
[7:44] Speaker 1: was angry because at that funeral scene at the end
[7:47] Speaker 1: of that documentary, you know, is when all of my
[7:50] Speaker 1: grief just began to pour out. So probably not just
[7:56] Speaker 1: degree from my father, but probably my uncle and my grandmother,
[8:00] Speaker 1: because I realized, Wow, my father and the rest of
[8:05] Speaker 1: the people, my mom as well, made extraordinary sacrifices for
[8:11] Speaker 1: our nation, and it's still seemed that we hadn't made
[8:15] Speaker 1: a lot of progress. And so I was. I was
[8:20] Speaker 1: hurt because I lost him and he wasn't here with us. Um.
[8:24] Speaker 1: And I was angry because I could have had my father.
[8:26] Speaker 1: That's how I was feeling at the time. UM. And
[8:29] Speaker 1: so it was a year later I said, at age seventeen,
[8:34] Speaker 1: I got this call because I said I was done
[8:36] Speaker 1: with God in church against God said no, you're not um,
[8:41] Speaker 1: and so I surrendered. Uh. I surrendered in the sense
[8:46] Speaker 1: that I told my mom about it, but I ran
[8:51] Speaker 1: otherwise because I tried to figure out, you know, is
[8:56] Speaker 1: there anything else I could do that I won't have
[8:58] Speaker 1: to be under this martyr King's shadow because he was
[9:02] Speaker 1: a preacher, so people canna always see me in the
[9:05] Speaker 1: light of him, and I won't have my own identity.
[9:07] Speaker 1: And I always wanted to go to law school, and
[9:10] Speaker 1: so I ended up finishing high school going to Spellman
[9:15] Speaker 1: College majoring in psychology with the concentration in prelocics. I
[9:19] Speaker 1: knew I always wanted to go to law school US
[9:21] Speaker 1: to watch Parry Mason, love Perry Mason. I wanted to
[9:25] Speaker 1: be like Parry Mason all of that. UH, and I
[9:27] Speaker 1: have friends and said, you should be a lawyer. You'd
[9:29] Speaker 1: like to defend people and take up for people. I
[9:32] Speaker 1: can testify that, yes, you care. I went on to
[9:37] Speaker 1: UH Emory University a joint program. It was a very
[9:41] Speaker 1: few schools had it. A j D and a Master
[9:43] Speaker 1: of Divinity UM. So in five years I got my
[9:47] Speaker 1: law degree in my theology and it was there where
[9:49] Speaker 1: I started really wrestling with his calling, and I went
[9:53] Speaker 1: to theology school because I knew I had the calling,
[9:56] Speaker 1: so I went ahead and went to school. But I
[9:59] Speaker 1: was struggling with it early on at seventeen through one,
[10:04] Speaker 1: because I was young, I didn't see any women in
[10:08] Speaker 1: particularly in the Baptist Church. And finally I had this
[10:12] Speaker 1: experience that I think was a life changing moment um.
[10:18] Speaker 1: After two semesters in law school, I ended up on
[10:20] Speaker 1: probation the first semester. The second semester, I was still
[10:23] Speaker 1: in the theology school taking courses did well over there,
[10:28] Speaker 1: and they told me, look, um, if you don't improve
[10:32] Speaker 1: and come off of probation, um, which would have been
[10:38] Speaker 1: the third time going into the third time, we're gonna
[10:40] Speaker 1: have to release you from the law school. And so
[10:44] Speaker 1: all I can see with these headlines Dr King's door
[10:46] Speaker 1: the flount side of law school. And at that time,
[10:49] Speaker 1: because I was carrying so much anger and hostility, hostility
[10:53] Speaker 1: and maybe even some rage, you know, and I felt
[10:57] Speaker 1: very disconnected. I Um, I went home, got a knife
[11:01] Speaker 1: and I wanted to kill myself. Um, but I had
[11:05] Speaker 1: this fear what if I wasn't successful. So all the
[11:08] Speaker 1: time I'm contemplating this, my roommate comes down, sees me.
[11:12] Speaker 1: She says, what are you doing? And she runs back upstairs.
[11:15] Speaker 1: Uh to call my my mom. In the meantime, I
[11:18] Speaker 1: hear this voice that says to me, put the knife down,
[11:23] Speaker 1: because you're gonna be missed. I'm thinking missed. Nobody cares
[11:27] Speaker 1: anything about me. Not necessarily true, but I was feeling
[11:31] Speaker 1: carrying all of this anger and feeling so separated. Um,
[11:36] Speaker 1: and then the voice said, you you have a calling.
[11:41] Speaker 1: And it was at that point, literally it was like
[11:44] Speaker 1: I was I went through my own resurrection experience of
[11:47] Speaker 1: coming out of you know, feeling disconnected and insignificant and
[11:53] Speaker 1: overwhelmed by all this anger, and uh, my life started changing.
[11:58] Speaker 1: At that point, That's when I really I tempt me,
[12:00] Speaker 1: but I fully gave my my life to Jesus Christ.
[12:03] Speaker 1: Although I grew up in the church, but it was
[12:05] Speaker 1: at that point I became more of a yielded vessel
[12:08] Speaker 1: and and decided that I was going to yield myself
[12:12] Speaker 1: to God's will and his direction. And um, about a
[12:17] Speaker 1: year later is when I preached my first sermon in
[12:20] Speaker 1: ministry and I went on this journey I had to go.
[12:24] Speaker 1: And I still had to go on the journey because
[12:25] Speaker 1: I still had the anger and frankly, uh, President Clinton,
[12:29] Speaker 1: I was I was. I was angry. And I also
[12:32] Speaker 1: had hate in my heart for all white people, although
[12:36] Speaker 1: people didn't know it because I was started King's daughter.
[12:38] Speaker 1: My mother taught me better, so I could, you know, shrouded.
[12:42] Speaker 1: But I hated. I hated white people that I especially
[12:44] Speaker 1: hated white men. UM. And I remember in two thousand
[12:49] Speaker 1: now I was licensed to preaching, ordained as licensed eight
[12:52] Speaker 1: eight or day ninety. But it was two thousands where
[12:56] Speaker 1: I had this encounter with a gentleman by the name
[12:58] Speaker 1: of Jim James Robot and UM Evangelical Ministry has a
[13:02] Speaker 1: show UM on one of the religious broadcasts, and in
[13:07] Speaker 1: the middle of talking about my dad, he said, you
[13:11] Speaker 1: know and all the pain I was having, he said,
[13:12] Speaker 1: can I give you a hug? Now? Inside I was like,
[13:16] Speaker 1: you know, ain't snow Um, But I allowed it. And
[13:22] Speaker 1: when he hugged me, it was one of the most
[13:24] Speaker 1: genuine hugs I've ever received in my life. And it
[13:27] Speaker 1: started relieving me um of the way that I was
[13:33] Speaker 1: feeling about white people. And and from that point on,
[13:37] Speaker 1: doors just started opening. Things started happening, and you know,
[13:42] Speaker 1: I started really delving in and looking at this this
[13:47] Speaker 1: anger that was overtaking my life and causing me to
[13:51] Speaker 1: categorize people and target people and even mishandle people close
[13:54] Speaker 1: to me. So from the point of my mother saying,
[13:58] Speaker 1: as a child, somebody he has to cut off the
[14:00] Speaker 1: chain of violence. I got all this anger inside, and
[14:04] Speaker 1: typically anger when it erupts, it's just it has no
[14:10] Speaker 1: sense about it, so it will target any and everything
[14:12] Speaker 1: and earth and hurt people. Um and I had to
[14:16] Speaker 1: figure this out, and so I could hear, you gotta
[14:20] Speaker 1: cut off the chain. You don't want to be someone
[14:23] Speaker 1: who ends up letting that anger cause you to continue
[14:27] Speaker 1: to do violence. Because I was very valuable in my tongue.
[14:30] Speaker 1: It wasn't until I became CEO of the King's Center
[14:36] Speaker 1: that my life began to really come and focus because
[14:41] Speaker 1: before then, you know, my mom was around. She was
[14:44] Speaker 1: the face of the legacy. You know, I obviously went
[14:48] Speaker 1: out speaking a lot of concerning my my father's legacy.
[14:51] Speaker 1: You know, I was committed to it, but I was
[14:53] Speaker 1: always wrestling with where do I fit, what do I do?
[14:56] Speaker 1: How do I distinguish myself? You know, what is my purpose?
[15:00] Speaker 1: What is my call? What can I do that it's
[15:02] Speaker 1: not always about king And then it dawned on me, Wow,
[15:08] Speaker 1: Daddy's teachings really come out of the world of God
[15:11] Speaker 1: for him, So there was not any inconsistency anymore for me.
[15:15] Speaker 1: I was able to reconcile. You know that this work
[15:18] Speaker 1: is really about vancing God's kingdom. It's about building a just, humane, equitable,
[15:25] Speaker 1: and peaceful world. And I don't feel like, you know,
[15:29] Speaker 1: I'm not being true to my calling, you know, as
[15:33] Speaker 1: a preacher or as a minister, because you can express
[15:35] Speaker 1: it even beyond you know, the traditional pulpit. So the
[15:40] Speaker 1: senators like, uh, it's like part of my ministry to
[15:43] Speaker 1: the world. And um, you know, I now understand the
[15:48] Speaker 1: power of nonviolence to really transform you first, uh, and
[15:53] Speaker 1: then to pour out into the rest of the world
[15:56] Speaker 1: to change the world and to be that vessel, as
[15:59] Speaker 1: my mother said, had to cut off the chain of violence.
[16:02] Speaker 1: But thank God for her because I saw her over
[16:06] Speaker 1: and over again. There were things when people hurt her,
[16:08] Speaker 1: but she still extended herself in grace and love towards
[16:12] Speaker 1: those people and always wanted the best for other people. Well,
[16:16] Speaker 1: thank you. That was fascinating and a story I Wedger
[16:22] Speaker 1: very few Americans have heard. Let me ask you something
[16:26] Speaker 1: the it's sort of in the background of all this
[16:29] Speaker 1: turmoil we've been through in the last few years, and
[16:32] Speaker 1: particularly the killing of unarmed people of color and police incidents,
[16:39] Speaker 1: but also more mass shootings. How much do you believe
[16:46] Speaker 1: the forces that are behind this can be banked, erased,
[16:51] Speaker 1: gotten out of our spirit? And what is the relationship
[16:56] Speaker 1: between the pulpit and salvation and the practical challenges you
[17:02] Speaker 1: face and makings change. Well, you know, let's mentioning question
[17:06] Speaker 1: because I'm I'm of the firm belief UM that if
[17:13] Speaker 1: we have enough people like my mother and father, UM,
[17:20] Speaker 1: like the gun days, if they're cultivated UM to really
[17:24] Speaker 1: be these vessels um of love or as as my
[17:28] Speaker 1: father said, that the philosophy and strategy of nonviolence must
[17:33] Speaker 1: immediately become a subject of study and serious experimentation in
[17:39] Speaker 1: every field of human conflict, by no means excluding nations.
[17:44] Speaker 1: I think if we take those words to heart and
[17:48] Speaker 1: we really begin to saturate it um in our uh,
[17:54] Speaker 1: in our society, UH, from childhood forward, we will begin
[18:00] Speaker 1: to raise young people who are other centered, who are
[18:06] Speaker 1: who are focused on the good of humanity, people who
[18:10] Speaker 1: will understand the value, the dignity, and the worth of
[18:15] Speaker 1: all individuals. UM. That that we are, you know, as
[18:20] Speaker 1: as we say in in in the Christian faith, we
[18:22] Speaker 1: are created in the imago dath, in the image and
[18:26] Speaker 1: after the likeness of God. UM. Just by listening to
[18:31] Speaker 1: some of the conversations that the younger generation has, they
[18:38] Speaker 1: they seem to be wired toward that UM. And yes,
[18:43] Speaker 1: they they're exposed to all of the bad and the
[18:47] Speaker 1: ugly things that that we continue to expose them too,
[18:52] Speaker 1: but it seems like it's something like inside of them
[18:55] Speaker 1: that's that's still very grounded in a way that that
[19:00] Speaker 1: little verse about and a little child should leave them.
[19:03] Speaker 1: It's like they are tapping into our conscience UM and
[19:07] Speaker 1: and awakening us uh. In the non violent philosophy, we
[19:11] Speaker 1: call it the win win pathway, you know. And I
[19:15] Speaker 1: think we have to take more time to understand each other.
[19:19] Speaker 1: And Stephen Kobe talks about one of the habits of
[19:22] Speaker 1: highly affective people is seeking to understand rather than to
[19:26] Speaker 1: be understood. UM. We don't spend enough time trying to
[19:30] Speaker 1: understand how people are, how they get where they are,
[19:34] Speaker 1: you know, how do they develop UM into these mindsets
[19:39] Speaker 1: into these ideologies. What happened to them? Because something happened.
[19:43] Speaker 1: We're not born hating. I mean that we're just not.
[19:49] Speaker 1: People are are socialized UM and and they they you know,
[19:54] Speaker 1: they're taught UM that model. In other words, that they're
[19:57] Speaker 1: surrounded by UM. And it's tough. Yes, we have complicated
[20:02] Speaker 1: because you've been president, you know the complicated issues around
[20:05] Speaker 1: the world. Nations have different ideologies, belief systems, religions, you know, practices, behaviors, um,
[20:13] Speaker 1: et cetera. But I just I hold on to the
[20:16] Speaker 1: belief of the ultimate triumph of good, of love and
[20:22] Speaker 1: of truth. But we have to stay uh persistent, we
[20:26] Speaker 1: have to stay diligent, we have to stay vigilant. And
[20:30] Speaker 1: as a generation is raised, they're gonna be the ones
[20:33] Speaker 1: to to really saturate this around the world. Um. It
[20:38] Speaker 1: just I don't know what else to say. Um I
[20:42] Speaker 1: have I have that much hope and I have that
[20:44] Speaker 1: much belief because we're gonna find it. Everything else we
[20:48] Speaker 1: try and it is not working. Violence violence doesn't work,
[20:52] Speaker 1: and disregarding people doesn't work either. We'll be right back.
[21:03] Speaker 1: I remember when you came to the White House at
[21:09] Speaker 1: my invitation more than twenty years ago, and you spoke
[21:11] Speaker 1: on a program welcoming President Mandela to Washington. That's the
[21:17] Speaker 1: thing that most amazed me about him, That is, he
[21:21] Speaker 1: was the first person I had seen who got political
[21:25] Speaker 1: power and did not abuse it, and did not spend
[21:29] Speaker 1: one second trying to get even or whatever. And he
[21:35] Speaker 1: realized he had to in effect rescue his adversaries, form
[21:41] Speaker 1: themselves from their hatred and and restore them to a
[21:46] Speaker 1: place where they could be part of a common future.
[21:50] Speaker 1: He's the only person I ever knew who suffered that
[21:53] Speaker 1: much then't got that much political power and did it.
[21:58] Speaker 1: And the thing I said that you're saying, it's you
[22:02] Speaker 1: know how you struggle to get there. Because I knew
[22:04] Speaker 1: Mandela well enough to know that he still got mad,
[22:07] Speaker 1: and he still had bad memories. He still wanted to
[22:09] Speaker 1: lash out when somebody said something stupid or hateful or
[22:12] Speaker 1: did something wrong. But he had developed, over all over
[22:17] Speaker 1: years and his monastery his prison, a an iron discipline
[22:25] Speaker 1: and a pattern of thinking and feeling where he could
[22:29] Speaker 1: have a quick snapback. And I often thought, after I
[22:35] Speaker 1: really got to know Mandela, it made me reexamine other
[22:40] Speaker 1: people's lives more like your father. I thought, how could
[22:44] Speaker 1: have got this smart put up with all that stuff
[22:49] Speaker 1: and keep going with a loving heart. And I think
[22:51] Speaker 1: you have to. It's a discipline. You have to develop
[22:54] Speaker 1: a quick snapback. If you want to win this social
[22:56] Speaker 1: change argument. You have to keep the door open while
[22:59] Speaker 1: others are shutting theirs. And that requires a lot of effort. Yeah.
[23:05] Speaker 1: You know, my mother said to me once when I
[23:08] Speaker 1: was extremely angry and I was about to make this
[23:13] Speaker 1: major decision, and I was driving on one of our
[23:17] Speaker 1: freeways here and she stopped me and she said, baby,
[23:23] Speaker 1: never make a decision in your anger. I said, oh wow.
[23:31] Speaker 1: And what I heard is she wasn't condemning me for
[23:35] Speaker 1: being angry. We're gonna have those feelings. We're gonna get mad,
[23:42] Speaker 1: you know, p old Um enraged about things that are
[23:48] Speaker 1: unjust and inhumane. But what she was saying to me is,
[23:53] Speaker 1: don't let that translate into something that you may either
[23:59] Speaker 1: lay to regret or something that you can give yourself
[24:02] Speaker 1: time to use your mind, which God is our mind
[24:06] Speaker 1: is supposed to be much higher, you know, a conscious
[24:10] Speaker 1: than I, than than our feelings and emotions. I say
[24:13] Speaker 1: to people never we we have responsibility and not leave
[24:17] Speaker 1: people in their ignorance and their hatred, in their anger,
[24:21] Speaker 1: in their fear, you know. And and that's hard. I
[24:25] Speaker 1: know everybody can't do that. But we're in this world
[24:28] Speaker 1: house together. One of the things that's interesting to me,
[24:32] Speaker 1: so much of this is rooted not only in age
[24:35] Speaker 1: old questions of human nature and identity, needing somebody to
[24:41] Speaker 1: look down on and not this to be different from,
[24:43] Speaker 1: but to be better than. Yeah, I mean, there is
[24:48] Speaker 1: a there's a route. There's a route to violence, There's
[24:55] Speaker 1: there's a route to injustice. Um. And that's what I
[25:01] Speaker 1: think non violence seeks to get at with people. UM.
[25:06] Speaker 1: But honestly, non violences when when you think about it,
[25:09] Speaker 1: it's it's really love translated into action. And so that's
[25:15] Speaker 1: why we've we've launched this be Loved campaign because, um,
[25:21] Speaker 1: we got to get people to a place where they
[25:24] Speaker 1: are not driven out of these feelings, like mother said,
[25:28] Speaker 1: not making decisions in your feelings, uh, but really making
[25:34] Speaker 1: it out of this this heart of love, at this
[25:36] Speaker 1: understanding of the dignity and value and worth of the person.
[25:43] Speaker 1: Um that regardless of what you know, what I may feel,
[25:48] Speaker 1: what I may think, you know, every person in the universe.
[25:54] Speaker 1: I hate to say this. If people don't want to
[25:56] Speaker 1: hear it is valuable to God. Um. And so you know, yeah,
[26:05] Speaker 1: I think about that all the time that you know,
[26:08] Speaker 1: how do we get to the root of all of this? Yeah?
[26:11] Speaker 1: And and yet we we gotta go back to to
[26:14] Speaker 1: the beginning. Where did this white supremacy uh rulership and
[26:20] Speaker 1: power uh of construct and way of operating? Where did
[26:27] Speaker 1: what did that come out of? As you said, you
[26:29] Speaker 1: you you can you you classify it as the need
[26:33] Speaker 1: to look down and put down um others. You know,
[26:38] Speaker 1: where does that come from? Um? And that's something we
[26:42] Speaker 1: have to explore. I don't I don't know a hundred percent,
[26:44] Speaker 1: but I do know it's something in this this love
[26:47] Speaker 1: factor that has a lot to do with it. You know,
[26:51] Speaker 1: the more full of love of person is the less
[26:55] Speaker 1: they are meeting. Because when you have self love, you
[26:59] Speaker 1: don't need to look down on anybody else. Um. And
[27:02] Speaker 1: if you have love of others, that's complimenting that you
[27:05] Speaker 1: You you kind of affirmed them as you affirm yourself.
[27:09] Speaker 1: I don't know who you're supposed to give on and
[27:11] Speaker 1: who you're not supposed to give up on, But I
[27:14] Speaker 1: think reaching across the identity divides is humanizing. You don't
[27:19] Speaker 1: have to say, are now forget everything you ever did
[27:23] Speaker 1: or now realize there's no difference between us. That's not true.
[27:28] Speaker 1: But somehow we have to scratch each other enough that
[27:31] Speaker 1: we find a person down there. And that's what I
[27:34] Speaker 1: think you're trying to do. And right I was talked about,
[27:38] Speaker 1: you know, forgiving your enemies, and so because I was
[27:42] Speaker 1: talked so early on, and not just talk because my
[27:45] Speaker 1: mother didn't just talk about it. She immolated these things
[27:49] Speaker 1: because it was who she was. You know, she wasn't
[27:51] Speaker 1: made by Martin Luther King Jr. They met as two
[27:54] Speaker 1: powerful forces because she was an activist in our own
[27:57] Speaker 1: right as you know, a peace activists before they met
[28:02] Speaker 1: um and was very responsible for really the final push
[28:05] Speaker 1: of him speaking out against the war in Vietnam that
[28:08] Speaker 1: at the time was controversial. Later on we acknowledged it
[28:12] Speaker 1: was a big mistake. Uh But her extraordinary example is
[28:20] Speaker 1: really what ultimately went out, you know, in my life.
[28:24] Speaker 1: And so as a child, I'm seeing all of this
[28:28] Speaker 1: being exuded by my mom, and you know, later on
[28:34] Speaker 1: it was very hard for me not to be kind of,
[28:38] Speaker 1: you know, kind of shaped in that fashion myself. Uh
[28:42] Speaker 1: So it is. You know, teaching this stuff early on,
[28:45] Speaker 1: exposing kids very early on is important, um to get
[28:50] Speaker 1: into this this place. And you know some people may
[28:53] Speaker 1: never never get that experience. But whatever point we can
[28:56] Speaker 1: intersect with people's lives, you know, to unburden them from
[29:02] Speaker 1: themselves so that they can join this journey. As my
[29:06] Speaker 1: mother would say, struggle being a never ending process, freedom
[29:10] Speaker 1: never being one you earned it and win it in
[29:13] Speaker 1: every generation. Join this struggle in this generation to win
[29:17] Speaker 1: freedom together. That's so important. I think You're beloved campaign
[29:22] Speaker 1: as the potential to break people out of the paradigm
[29:28] Speaker 1: that we have been in for some years now, where
[29:33] Speaker 1: every struggle is a zero some game and sometimes we're up,
[29:37] Speaker 1: sometimes we're down the but you gotta be on one
[29:41] Speaker 1: side of the other and we keep in score as
[29:45] Speaker 1: if my life will have more meaning if yours has less,
[29:50] Speaker 1: and and you're trying to say, we're just here for
[29:54] Speaker 1: a little while and my life will have more meaning
[29:56] Speaker 1: if yours has more. We'll be right back. Tell us
[30:05] Speaker 1: before we close the program a little more specifically about
[30:13] Speaker 1: your beloved campaign, Who is in it? How do you
[30:17] Speaker 1: join it? Because uh, what you said about your mother
[30:22] Speaker 1: was right. She was her own person from a very
[30:26] Speaker 1: young age. But she was on a journey of mental discipline.
[30:31] Speaker 1: Your father had to get from Gandhi to the Edmund
[30:38] Speaker 1: Prettis Bridge requires that a discipline. How do you apply
[30:44] Speaker 1: these teachings to what we're going through? And then how
[30:47] Speaker 1: can it benefit people in any community in America? And
[30:52] Speaker 1: how can people participate so that the the who is
[30:56] Speaker 1: whosoever will if I can be just frank we we
[30:59] Speaker 1: we opened it up to the world. This campaign invites
[31:03] Speaker 1: people who really are wanting to uh realign our our
[31:10] Speaker 1: world and our society with a force that can help
[31:14] Speaker 1: us create this just, humane, equitable and peaceful world that
[31:18] Speaker 1: many of us talk about and in so many different circles.
[31:22] Speaker 1: But but what is going to galvanize us? And how
[31:25] Speaker 1: do we kind of get on one page of of
[31:29] Speaker 1: responding uh to so many different things in our world.
[31:33] Speaker 1: And that's what the movement was about. What people fail
[31:36] Speaker 1: to understand is that my father's movement had a philosophical grounding.
[31:44] Speaker 1: That's what kept the people cohesive, you know, and kept
[31:48] Speaker 1: them you know, moving in the same direction. And so
[31:52] Speaker 1: this is like the vision, it's it's we're casting the
[31:55] Speaker 1: vision to society you as an individual be of not
[32:00] Speaker 1: just you know, in a not in a sentimental way,
[32:04] Speaker 1: but in a very powerful, unconditional UM, devoted and committed
[32:11] Speaker 1: to uh sin that the justice is implemented and done
[32:16] Speaker 1: in a way that we're not unjust in the actions
[32:20] Speaker 1: that we take to create justice. So we align our
[32:23] Speaker 1: means and ends UM and UH. We also work together
[32:30] Speaker 1: on looking how we can influence UM and implement policies
[32:36] Speaker 1: that are in alignment with just, humane, you know, peaceful
[32:41] Speaker 1: and equitable outcomes. So people sign up, they take the pledge,
[32:47] Speaker 1: and then we invite them to the trainings. There is
[32:50] Speaker 1: a way to speak truth in love that does not diminish,
[32:56] Speaker 1: that does not demean, that does not seek to destroy
[32:59] Speaker 1: character or seek to win the argument UH over people,
[33:03] Speaker 1: but seeks to elevate the truth in the end, when
[33:09] Speaker 1: we have these conflicts, whether you're talking about in Congress
[33:12] Speaker 1: right now, on the voting front here in Georgia, at
[33:19] Speaker 1: the end of the day, after we finished this particular battle,
[33:22] Speaker 1: whichever way it turns out, UM, we still have to
[33:27] Speaker 1: live together in community. Otherwise, as you said, the door
[33:32] Speaker 1: is closed, and then we're cut off further from each other.
[33:37] Speaker 1: And when the next issue arises. We're so far from
[33:40] Speaker 1: each other, we're not close enough to even begin to
[33:44] Speaker 1: work towards a win win solution because we're we're so opposed.
[33:50] Speaker 1: I feel that the whole world and uh, every corner
[33:56] Speaker 1: of America, yeh, as been caught up in this whirlwind
[34:03] Speaker 1: of identity conflicts. And you know, if you think about it,
[34:09] Speaker 1: our minds and eventually our emotions are defined by categories.
[34:16] Speaker 1: And yet if you believe in love, you have to
[34:18] Speaker 1: believe that somehow, beyond all these categories is something fundamentally
[34:23] Speaker 1: you can share with every other human being. And otherwise,
[34:28] Speaker 1: if our identity is just defined by our categories, pretty
[34:32] Speaker 1: soon we look more like cartoons than people. And you know,
[34:37] Speaker 1: trying to keep people from running into it because cartoons
[34:40] Speaker 1: are comfortable. You know what the colors are, you know
[34:43] Speaker 1: where the lines are drawn, you know everything. But I
[34:46] Speaker 1: think it's really this is a brave and ambitious thing
[34:50] Speaker 1: you're doing. Yeah, And we have all these labels we
[34:53] Speaker 1: put on people, and that becomes our definition and way
[34:57] Speaker 1: of engaging them because if they are like if they're Republican,
[35:02] Speaker 1: don't deal with them. And there's more to them than
[35:04] Speaker 1: the label. Um. And when we When we understand that
[35:08] Speaker 1: and connect in the in the common space, we can
[35:11] Speaker 1: do so much uh more good. And so what you
[35:16] Speaker 1: what you explained to me ultimately is something that Daddy
[35:19] Speaker 1: left us with with these words. Men hate each other
[35:22] Speaker 1: because they fear each other, and they fear each other
[35:25] Speaker 1: because they don't know each other, and they don't know
[35:28] Speaker 1: each other because they are they don't communicate with each
[35:32] Speaker 1: other and they're gonna communicate because they're separate from each other.
[35:36] Speaker 1: We've got to create spaces and opportunities to truly know
[35:41] Speaker 1: each other in more meaningful and depthful ways, beyond all
[35:47] Speaker 1: of our different identities. Who are you? And what will
[35:52] Speaker 1: discover is who we must be to each other. And
[35:57] Speaker 1: that's what this campaign is also about, answering that question.
[36:01] Speaker 1: Who must we be? We must be human beings who
[36:08] Speaker 1: regard and respect and value other human beings who may
[36:13] Speaker 1: have all these different kinds of identities, but they are
[36:17] Speaker 1: a member of our human family. They're situated in the
[36:20] Speaker 1: world house. And everybody wants to live in a community
[36:26] Speaker 1: of of whether there's respect and dignity and equity and
[36:30] Speaker 1: and and justice. And you know, if we don't commit
[36:36] Speaker 1: ourselves to that, I shudder. To think where we're headed.
[36:40] Speaker 1: And uh, you know, these are difficult issues. I look
[36:43] Speaker 1: forward to the day when we're not having these battles
[36:49] Speaker 1: around voting. Uh. Voting is the one way that we
[36:55] Speaker 1: are all in common. It's it's the one thing that
[36:59] Speaker 1: that is a common denominator in a democracy. And we've
[37:04] Speaker 1: got to figure out how to codify it in our constitution.
[37:09] Speaker 1: I mean, the guarantee of the right to vote is
[37:13] Speaker 1: not in our constitution. UM. So we're down here, as
[37:18] Speaker 1: so many people are in forty three uh states, you know, UM,
[37:22] Speaker 1: trying to pushing the right direction, hoping that corporations will
[37:28] Speaker 1: get more involved in this struggle to create this just
[37:31] Speaker 1: humane and equitable, peaceful society and not just creating a
[37:35] Speaker 1: bottom line for themselves, because otherwise we're just gonna keep
[37:40] Speaker 1: tearing apart and it's not gonna be pretty. Well, it's
[37:47] Speaker 1: not gonna be pretty. And we can't preserve the greatness
[37:51] Speaker 1: and promise of our country unless we do it together.
[37:53] Speaker 1: We've we can pretend all we wanted. We will be
[37:58] Speaker 1: the same country if we just little cut ourselves off
[38:01] Speaker 1: from one another and disempower massive numbers of Americans that
[38:06] Speaker 1: don't agree with us. But it won't work. And therefore,
[38:11] Speaker 1: in some ways you're fighting the oldest battle of humanity,
[38:16] Speaker 1: all dressed up in a new suit, with the whole
[38:19] Speaker 1: future of all the young people in America rotting on it,
[38:22] Speaker 1: and and all the people we might still help. So
[38:27] Speaker 1: I'm really grateful to you. I'd like to close by
[38:31] Speaker 1: giving you a chance to say one more time how
[38:34] Speaker 1: they can reach you and share their ideas and give
[38:38] Speaker 1: you support. They can go to the King's Center dot
[38:42] Speaker 1: org for that. And again, the first thing you'll see
[38:46] Speaker 1: on the website is be loved and take the pledge. UM. Yes,
[38:52] Speaker 1: we we're gonna be driving it very hard because we
[38:56] Speaker 1: need love to change these systems. Anger is not gonna
[39:00] Speaker 1: change the system. You know, we'll we'll we'll just you know,
[39:04] Speaker 1: continue to go back, fire and fire hate on hate,
[39:08] Speaker 1: hate never UM does away with hate, as Dad said,
[39:13] Speaker 1: only love does that. And we gotta multiply love in
[39:15] Speaker 1: the universe to overwhelm the hate. UM. And and so
[39:21] Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna drive and we're gonna make sure
[39:24] Speaker 1: that in the end people know that we're not talking
[39:26] Speaker 1: about some man be pan b you know, some kind
[39:29] Speaker 1: of weak sentimental stuff. We're talking about that strength to love,
[39:33] Speaker 1: that that power to stand in the face of ugliness.
[39:38] Speaker 1: You know that John Lewis and jose williams Um and
[39:43] Speaker 1: CT Vivian and Amelia Boynton, you know, and even Viola
[39:48] Speaker 1: Louisa and and Jimmy Lee Jackson, you know, and Rosa
[39:53] Speaker 1: Parks stood in the face up. That was an act
[39:55] Speaker 1: and demonstration of love that Rosa Parks did. It wasn't
[40:00] Speaker 1: us about. She was concerned about that bus driver too.
[40:03] Speaker 1: She wanted him liberated and free from from having to
[40:07] Speaker 1: to to be so ugly and mean, um and and
[40:11] Speaker 1: and and oppressive. Uh. And so that's a powerful love
[40:15] Speaker 1: that faces that kind of stuff and still stand strong.
[40:19] Speaker 1: And in the end people should never forget. In a
[40:23] Speaker 1: nonviolent revolution, then maybe loss of life, but it's a
[40:28] Speaker 1: minimal compared to a violent revolution. You have been a
[40:32] Speaker 1: blessing in my life and a blessing and the lives
[40:34] Speaker 1: of so many. And I think your biggest and most
[40:38] Speaker 1: important work is still to come, because we have been
[40:45] Speaker 1: all caught up almost like rats, running around in amaze
[40:49] Speaker 1: these last few years and battles of dueling resentments in
[40:53] Speaker 1: America and crumbling old world order. And uh, we have
[41:00] Speaker 1: to build a lot of new things with a lot
[41:02] Speaker 1: of young people for their future. And and you you
[41:08] Speaker 1: are giving people away to both preserve what we have
[41:12] Speaker 1: to preserve, including voting rights, and build the future we
[41:16] Speaker 1: need to build. And I'm very grateful to you, and
[41:18] Speaker 1: I hope that many people will listen to you today,
[41:21] Speaker 1: heed your call in contact and offer to help. Bless you,
[41:25] Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Thank you, God, bless you too.
[41:32] Speaker 1: Why am I telling you? This is a production of
[41:33] Speaker 1: our Heart Radio, the Clinton Foundation and at Will Media.
[41:38] Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Craig Manascian and Will Malnati. Our
[41:43] Speaker 1: production team includes Mitch Bluestein, Jamison cat Sufis, Tom Galton,
[41:47] Speaker 1: Sarah Harrows, and Jake Young, with production support from Tyler
[41:51] Speaker 1: Scott and Olatavia Young. Original music by What White. Special
[41:57] Speaker 1: thanks to John Sykes, Tina Flinois, John Davidson on hell Arena,
[42:02] Speaker 1: Corey Gainstley, Oscar Flora's, Kevin Thurm, and all our dedicated
[42:06] Speaker 1: staff and partners at the Clinton Foundation. If you have
[42:10] Speaker 1: an idea of suggestion for the show, we'd love to
[42:12] Speaker 1: hear from you, so please visit Clinton Foundation dot org
[42:16] Speaker 1: slash podcast to share your thoughts with us. If you
[42:20] Speaker 1: like the show, tell someone else about it. You can
[42:23] Speaker 1: subscribe to why Am I Telling You This? On the
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[42:29] Speaker 1: your podcast. By listening to this podcast, you're helping support
[42:33] Speaker 1: the work of the Clinton Foundation. So thank you. Hi.
[42:57] Speaker 1: I'm Jane Park, director of National Partnerships at Too Smart
[43:00] Speaker 1: to Fail, the Clinton Foundation's early learning initiative. In the
[43:04] Speaker 1: United States, nearly sixty of children start kindergarten unprepared, lagging
[43:11] Speaker 1: behind in critical language and literacy skills. Luckily, research tells
[43:16] Speaker 1: us that simple everyday interactions like talking, reading, and singing
[43:21] Speaker 1: with young children from the moment they're born can help
[43:24] Speaker 1: set a strong foundation for lifelong learning. That's why we're
[43:28] Speaker 1: working just around families with early language, literacy and learning
[43:32] Speaker 1: opportunities during their daily routines, from the load of the
[43:36] Speaker 1: laundromat to the bus stop, the pediatrician's office to the playground.
[43:41] Speaker 1: We work to meet parents where they are and help
[43:43] Speaker 1: them provide their children with the best possible start in
[43:47] Speaker 1: school and in life. Learn more about this work and
[43:51] Speaker 1: see how you can get involved visit www dot Clinton
[43:55] Speaker 1: Foundation dot org. Slash podcast Foo

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