# The ATO Called. We’re Unwell.

An episode of [We Don't Have Time For This](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1544178687), 26 Oct 2026, 53 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/4f8dbbbd-dca3-422d-beec-b4a2017094cd/b166b4c3-5327-457f-9beb-b4ef001c1589/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=cb643b19-682a-420b-8163-b4a201709908

Revz’s flights are booked and the countdown is officially on! Gem’s been to see Maggie Dent and has returned with golden nuggets of parenting wisdom. This is life changing stuff. You’re welcome. Then, we need to talk about the #DramaKings in our lives, the melodramatic sons who are reminding us that boys are, in fact, allowed to cry. And just when we thought we were having a nice time, Revz has a call with the ATO that hits hard, opening up a very real chat about the financial stress so many of us are quietly drowning in. Notspons: R: Flowzy Pet Water Fountain (aff link) G: Zoe Foster Blake on The Imperfects - Check out our Amazon Storefront Submit your OTDL Submit your Bestie Hotline Join our Facebook Group Sign Up To Bestie Bulletin Subscribe to MORE TIME For This: Subscribe on Apple Subscribe on Spotify Listen to our cool little sister podcast: The Fifth Trimester on Spotify The Fifth Trimester on Apple Send This Episode To Your Friends: I Need A New Podcast (Spotify) I Need A New Podcast (Apple) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: We would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the
[0:03] Speaker 1: land that this podcast is recorded on. Big news. Yes.
[0:06] Speaker 1: Flights are booked.
[0:07] Speaker 2: Yay.
[0:08] Speaker 1: I'm relieved for you, frankly. Same. We needed this. We
[0:12] Speaker 1: needed this. You guys need it. You know the rule.
[0:14] Speaker 2: You got to have that thing to look forward to.
[0:16] Speaker 2: You can't be floundering about not knowing when the heck
[0:19] Speaker 2: you're going to see each other again.
[0:20] Speaker 3: Agree, but it's not a rule that is conducive with
[0:22] Speaker 3: my life. Doesn't always work. Can't always have it booked
[0:25] Speaker 3: before I leave. In fact, I'm sure when I leave
[0:27] Speaker 3: this trip from New York.
[0:28] Speaker 1: You won't have anything booked. I won't have anything booked.
[0:30] Speaker 1: Who knows? Who knows what's happening, you know? I reckon
[0:33] Speaker 1: it's more his life than your life. No, it's always
[0:36] Speaker 1: me holding up the flights. Oh, really?
[0:37] Speaker 2: Why?
[0:37] Speaker 3: Yeah, because we can't book around his life.
[0:39] Speaker 1: You just can't.
[0:40] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[0:40] Speaker 1: But for me, it's like I co-parent.
[0:42] Speaker 3: My kids have things like there's terms, there's hot school holidays,
[0:46] Speaker 3: there's work stuff, you know.
[0:48] Speaker 1: It's way more me with the schedule. Oh, really? Anyway, whatever.
[0:50] Speaker 1: We're booked.
[0:51] Speaker 2: Yay.
[0:52] Speaker 1: Thank goodness.
[0:53] Speaker 3: And we now have an official countdown. So everything feels
[0:55] Speaker 3: a little more manageable.
[0:57] Speaker 1: And you're going to New York. I'm going to New York.
[0:59] Speaker 1: I'm flying on Christmas day, guys.
[1:01] Speaker 2: Hack.
[1:02] Speaker 1: It's actually a flight hack, guys.
[1:03] Speaker 3: I know.
[1:04] Speaker 1: Rebs was able to use points. I know. So exciting.
[1:07] Speaker 2: I leave a mere five days before Christmas and saved
[1:12] Speaker 2: up all these points and couldn't use them.
[1:14] Speaker 1: Such a joke.
[1:15] Speaker 3: I know we were sitting there like planning the flights
[1:18] Speaker 3: and everything and I'm like, oh, do we just, we
[1:20] Speaker 3: can get this whole thing on points. And I had
[1:22] Speaker 3: this thing of like, oh, I don't know, do I
[1:23] Speaker 3: want to use all my points? And then we were
[1:25] Speaker 3: just like, what are these points for? That's exactly what
[1:28] Speaker 3: they're for. What am I saving them for so that
[1:30] Speaker 3: they can fucking change the policy or like they can expire?
[1:33] Speaker 2: 100p.
[1:34] Speaker 1: That's what they say. You've got to use them. Just
[1:36] Speaker 1: use them.
[1:36] Speaker 2: Because airlines are constantly, and hotels, changing their points policy
[1:40] Speaker 2: under your nose, devaluing them.
[1:43] Speaker 1: You don't even know it's happening.
[1:44] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:44] Speaker 1: Until you go to book and you're like, oh, it
[1:46] Speaker 1: costs that many now. You know, like you got to
[1:48] Speaker 1: use them. Just use them. Gather and use. Light the
[1:50] Speaker 1: good candle or whatever. Like use your fucking points. Wear
[1:53] Speaker 1: the damn dress. Yeah.
[1:54] Speaker 3: I don't know what I was saving them for, but anyway,
[1:55] Speaker 3: we got my flights and two nights in this lush hotel,
[1:59] Speaker 3: all on points.
[2:00] Speaker 2: Great.
[2:01] Speaker 1: Absolutely winning. So excited.
[2:03] Speaker 3: And then I've got the split with my kids that
[2:05] Speaker 3: I love this year. It's my Christmas Eve. I have
[2:08] Speaker 3: them for the whole week in the lead up to
[2:10] Speaker 3: Christmas morning, including Christmas Eve, Christmas morning.
[2:13] Speaker 1: It's just all magical. It's all, everything's coming up revs
[2:16] Speaker 1: that week. And how many weeks are you going for?
[2:19] Speaker 1: Just over two.
[2:19] Speaker 2: Lovely.
[2:20] Speaker 1: Nice.
[2:21] Speaker 3: Good, solid time. Very excited to see my Tamagotchi imaginary
[2:24] Speaker 3: friend in real life. Do you clean his poo and
[2:28] Speaker 3: give him medication? I'm deep in Tamagotchi world. It drives
[2:31] Speaker 3: me insane. My kids are like, my Tamagotchi's sick. I
[2:34] Speaker 3: need to give it injections. I'm like, well, hurry up.
[2:36] Speaker 3: It's making an awful lot of noise.
[2:38] Speaker 2: I know. It's shat everywhere. There's like flies on the poo.
[2:41] Speaker 2: What's going on with your Tamagotchi? He just lives in
[2:43] Speaker 2: my phone. My boyfriend lives in my phone.
[2:45] Speaker 1: I see. And I'm excited for him not to live
[2:46] Speaker 1: in my phone. iPhone boyfriend. Yeah, he's my Tamagotchi.
[2:49] Speaker 3: Beep, beep, beep.
[2:50] Speaker 1: Water. Water me, nurture me.
[2:52] Speaker 2: Beep, beep, beep.
[2:53] Speaker 1: He's sad.
[2:53] Speaker 2: Quick.
[2:55] Speaker 3: I think I'm more his Tamagotchi than he's mine lately,
[2:58] Speaker 3: but anyway, that's fine.
[2:59] Speaker 2: The countdown's on. It's only two months, guys. Just a
[3:02] Speaker 2: casual two-month-er.
[3:04] Speaker 1: No biggie. Longest stretch we've had apart.
[3:06] Speaker 3: It's tough.
[3:07] Speaker 1: Long distance is tough. This time of year, hopefully we'll
[3:10] Speaker 1: whip by.
[3:10] Speaker 2: Oh, my God, if there's one thing that's a guarantee,
[3:13] Speaker 2: it's the runway to Christmas and New Year is fucking coming.
[3:16] Speaker 1: At us like a juggernaut.
[3:17] Speaker 3: I know.
[3:18] Speaker 1: We're in that group chat season, right, where it's like,
[3:20] Speaker 1: shall we get together? And it's like. Which weekend? No
[3:23] Speaker 1: one's got a weekend. No one's got a Friday, a Sunday.
[3:25] Speaker 1: The Saturdays went months ago.
[3:27] Speaker 2: It's like work Christmas parties, family get-togethers, friend get-togethers, end-of-year
[3:31] Speaker 2: celebration of soccer, end-of-year celebration of rugby.
[3:33] Speaker 1: Then people go away. Yeah, just all of it. See
[3:36] Speaker 1: you in March. Yeah, I'm on that conveyor belt and
[3:38] Speaker 1: I'm feeling it. Let's start this up.
[3:41] Speaker 2: We have a thousand things to do, but we'd rather
[3:45] Speaker 2: chat to you.
[3:47] Speaker 1: With emails and meetings and husbands and kids, we don't
[3:52] Speaker 1: have time for this. Just what you need to basic
[3:57] Speaker 1: bitches with a podcast. Hello and welcome to We Don't
[4:02] Speaker 1: Have Time For This.
[4:03] Speaker 2: I'm your host, Gemma Pranita, aka Gemma Peanut on the gram,
[4:07] Speaker 2: along with my co-host Kate Reeves. So I went to
[4:12] Speaker 2: Maggie Dent's talk.
[4:14] Speaker 1: Our queen. Our queen Maggie Dent. DLs, if you don't
[4:18] Speaker 1: know who Maggie Dent is, why do you listen to us?
[4:21] Speaker 1: Like she is a... Stop right now. Stop right now.
[4:23] Speaker 1: Put it down and go listen to her. Seriously.
[4:26] Speaker 2: She's got an incredible podcast. It's called Parental Is Anything. Anyway,
[4:29] Speaker 2: she is our absolute guru and I was... champing at
[4:33] Speaker 2: the bit to see her IRL. And she happened to
[4:35] Speaker 2: come to like my neighborhood and tickets were.
[4:38] Speaker 1: Because she has a book, right? A new book. She
[4:39] Speaker 1: has a new book.
[4:40] Speaker 2: So she's doing a bit of a tour, but she
[4:42] Speaker 2: did a two hour on stage talking with a PowerPoint.
[4:46] Speaker 2: And I just had so many light bulb moments. And
[4:50] Speaker 2: what I didn't fully appreciate is just how fucking funny
[4:54] Speaker 2: she is. She's got the driest sense of humor. She's
[4:59] Speaker 2: not very boomer for a boomer no she's not she
[5:02] Speaker 2: isn't she isn't like there's a few things that she
[5:04] Speaker 2: said where I was like oh there's the inner boomer
[5:06] Speaker 2: coming now but it's funny and it's endearing yeah and
[5:09] Speaker 2: what I love which I think we've lost a bit
[5:12] Speaker 2: is the no nonsense yeah because you know how we're
[5:15] Speaker 2: very flowery and Careful with our language, our generation.
[5:18] Speaker 1: Especially in parenting. Yes, especially in parenting. Not to offend anyone. Yeah, yeah.
[5:22] Speaker 1: Like Maggie Dent is so fucking direct. Yeah, I love it.
[5:25] Speaker 2: And it just speaks to my soul. You know how
[5:27] Speaker 2: you want that when you think about a doctor?
[5:29] Speaker 1: Like for me, the person. I was about to say,
[5:30] Speaker 1: that's how I chose my OB. Yes, yes.
[5:32] Speaker 3: Because I met with a couple of OBs and I
[5:34] Speaker 3: was like, I'm going with the no bullshit one.
[5:36] Speaker 1: Yes.
[5:36] Speaker 3: She's just going to give it to me straight. I
[5:38] Speaker 3: can do all the thinking and flowery and emotion.
[5:40] Speaker 1: Yep. And she can be like, fucking push, Kate. Let's
[5:43] Speaker 1: get that baby out.
[5:44] Speaker 2: Well, I feel like Maggie Dent is the perfect balance
[5:47] Speaker 2: of no bullshit direct with a little bit of bedside manner.
[5:50] Speaker 2: And she, I think what's unique maybe separates her from
[5:53] Speaker 2: a classic boomer as well is that she deeply cares
[5:56] Speaker 2: about parenting, about the welfare of kids being raised today
[5:59] Speaker 2: right now.
[6:00] Speaker 1: Yes. She's not all, well, in my day, well, we'll
[6:02] Speaker 1: just go back to this.
[6:03] Speaker 3: She's just, she really deeply empathizes with the millennial parents.
[6:08] Speaker 2: And what I personally really love about her as well
[6:10] Speaker 2: is everything is backed by science.
[6:12] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. So she's very extremely well-researched. Not on vibes.
[6:16] Speaker 2: It's not on vibes, even though she raised four boys.
[6:20] Speaker 2: So you could argue that, you know what, she has
[6:23] Speaker 2: full permission to give us advice and dish.
[6:25] Speaker 1: It out on vibes. And then she's got a shitload
[6:28] Speaker 1: of grandkids.
[6:29] Speaker 2: Like she's so deep in it and she sees her
[6:31] Speaker 2: sons and daughters-in-law raising kids. And so she's quite fresh
[6:35] Speaker 2: and up to date and she's got a whole range
[6:36] Speaker 2: of grandkids. Anyway, I thought I would share some of
[6:39] Speaker 2: my favorite takeaways.
[6:40] Speaker 1: They're quite specific and detailed, but.
[6:42] Speaker 3: If you don't know, Maggie Dent is kind of an
[6:44] Speaker 3: expert on raising boys as well.
[6:46] Speaker 1: Particularly boys.
[6:46] Speaker 2: And this is why I went to this because, you know,
[6:48] Speaker 2: this is a strong area of interest for me is
[6:51] Speaker 2: like how do we raise good men in the world?
[6:54] Speaker 2: And she's big on positive masculinity, not toxic masculinity, but
[6:58] Speaker 2: also that boys, we can't suppress what they are from
[7:02] Speaker 2: caveman days. Basically, we've got to work with it, not
[7:04] Speaker 2: actively push against it. And she spent a lot of
[7:06] Speaker 2: time talking on that, which I appreciated and actually helped
[7:09] Speaker 2: me understand my husband.
[7:10] Speaker 1: Wow.
[7:11] Speaker 2: She talked a lot about singular focus and how, you know,
[7:15] Speaker 2: in the caveman days, it was like, I go out,
[7:17] Speaker 2: I hunt. That is my singular focus job. I come home.
[7:21] Speaker 2: And because men don't need to do that anymore, they
[7:23] Speaker 2: actually need to pour their focus into busying themselves in
[7:26] Speaker 2: other ways. Anyway, there were other like really alarming statistics
[7:29] Speaker 2: that this is quite dark, but like boys have a
[7:31] Speaker 2: higher chance of dying than girls just.
[7:34] Speaker 1: By way of their daredevil abilities. And thrill-seeking. Risk-taking.
[7:38] Speaker 2: Risk-taking characteristics, which are inbuilt in boys. That's why they
[7:42] Speaker 2: run from cheaters when they're out hunting and gathering. But anyway,
[7:45] Speaker 2: a couple of my favorite takeaways I wanted to share.
[7:47] Speaker 2: So she said studies were done in classrooms where boys
[7:51] Speaker 2: actually performed better in temperatures of 17 degrees and girls
[7:56] Speaker 2: performed better in a classroom that was set to a
[7:58] Speaker 2: temperature of 22.
[7:59] Speaker 1: And of course, classroom temperatures are set to 22 degrees.
[8:01] Speaker 3: Oh.
[8:03] Speaker 2: So she said that boys carry more muscle than girls,
[8:07] Speaker 2: generally speaking. And so they run hotter. They just run warmer.
[8:11] Speaker 2: So she said, you know, when your kid runs out
[8:14] Speaker 2: of your house in the dead of winter in t-shirt
[8:16] Speaker 2: and shorts.
[8:17] Speaker 1: And you're like, put a jumper on. They're like, no,
[8:19] Speaker 1: no joke. She goes this, it's your job as a
[8:22] Speaker 1: mom to shut up. Just shut up. Stop talking.
[8:27] Speaker 2: This is not your hill to die on. All you
[8:29] Speaker 2: then need to do is go, here's your jumper in
[8:31] Speaker 2: your school bag, chuck it in and send him off.
[8:34] Speaker 2: He runs hotter than you. He doesn't need it. They're
[8:36] Speaker 2: not going to get sick from being cold. And if
[8:38] Speaker 2: they're cold, they'll work out very quickly to put a
[8:42] Speaker 2: jumper on. And I was like, thank you, Maggie Den.
[8:44] Speaker 2: I needed that little pearl.
[8:46] Speaker 1: Of wisdom because so many times I'm like, It's cold today, Iggy.
[8:49] Speaker 1: Put your jumper on. And it's just another fucking conflict
[8:53] Speaker 1: in your day.
[8:54] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[8:54] Speaker 1: So now I'm just like, do you want your jumper on?
[8:56] Speaker 1: He goes, no. I'm like, it's in your school bag.
[8:58] Speaker 1: And guess what? I picked him up from school the
[8:59] Speaker 1: next day and he had his jumper on. So he
[9:02] Speaker 1: worked it out himself. Just little nuggets like that.
[9:05] Speaker 2: I had this woman sitting next to me in the
[9:06] Speaker 2: audience and she was nodding so hard I thought her head.
[9:09] Speaker 1: Was going to fall off. And, you know, when you
[9:11] Speaker 1: look at someone, it's like, oh, you're having everything. A
[9:14] Speaker 1: come to Jesus moment.
[9:15] Speaker 2: A revelation moment for you, which is really interesting. But, yeah,
[9:19] Speaker 2: the singular focus stuff, I was like, huh, okay. So
[9:22] Speaker 2: it is the whole men are from Mars, women are
[9:25] Speaker 2: from Venus thing. And I know we have a cognitive
[9:27] Speaker 2: awareness of this. Like we know that that is how
[9:31] Speaker 2: men and women are in their truest form and we
[9:33] Speaker 2: fight against it and we're like seeking 50-50 and then
[9:36] Speaker 2: there's this whole thing side of us that will never
[9:39] Speaker 2: be fair, which is we carry children. Women are the
[9:41] Speaker 2: bearers of life and men will never be that. And
[9:45] Speaker 2: we have to kind of accept that rather than fight
[9:47] Speaker 2: against it. But she just talked about letting boys finish
[9:50] Speaker 2: a task. Again, this is like a small but detailed tip,
[9:53] Speaker 2: but like if they're in the middle of building something
[9:56] Speaker 2: and then you're big on like, we need to pack
[9:58] Speaker 2: that away and they haven't finished. Let them finish it
[10:00] Speaker 2: or let them finish it in the morning or the
[10:02] Speaker 2: following afternoon don't disrupt that because they need to pour
[10:05] Speaker 2: energy into man make things Oh, yeah.
[10:08] Speaker 1: You know, and I was like, huh.
[10:09] Speaker 2: I know.
[10:10] Speaker 1: Because I'm a bit of a pack away, tidy up.
[10:13] Speaker 1: Pack away princess. Yeah, I've worked really hard against it.
[10:16] Speaker 2: Like I let Rafa leave a fort up for an
[10:18] Speaker 2: entire week now instead of making her. Yeah.
[10:21] Speaker 1: No, I'm fully reformed. I have art all over my house.
[10:24] Speaker 2: I just don't care anymore i think it's the benefit
[10:27] Speaker 2: of having an unrenovated home yep you just just.
[10:30] Speaker 3: Like i don't know how we start out in parenting
[10:32] Speaker 3: you can't sustain it no you know you just can't
[10:35] Speaker 3: sustain caring about these things as you say you can't
[10:37] Speaker 3: die on every fucking hill and also it doesn't matter
[10:41] Speaker 3: like there's not going to be art around your house
[10:42] Speaker 3: for very long in your life.
[10:43] Speaker 2: Yeah i think it depends it's personality because I think
[10:47] Speaker 2: it's easy for you to say it doesn't matter but
[10:49] Speaker 2: when you're someone who needs things a certain way sometimes
[10:53] Speaker 2: the effort of packing it away outweighs the mental clutter
[10:58] Speaker 2: that impacts you the entire week because x y and
[11:01] Speaker 2: z isn't done because you're told to like.
[11:03] Speaker 1: Let it go. Sure. But I guess when Maggie Dent
[11:05] Speaker 1: gives you permission that it's good for the kids. She does.
[11:08] Speaker 3: It's a reminder that there are four people in your
[11:10] Speaker 3: family and yes, you have to look after your mental landscape,
[11:14] Speaker 3: but there's other people who need other things as well
[11:16] Speaker 3: in the house. And if you know, you're helping him
[11:19] Speaker 3: develop a part of his brain that needs to complete
[11:21] Speaker 3: tasks and make things or whatever.
[11:23] Speaker 1: Then be enabled. Then it helps you go, you know what?
[11:26] Speaker 1: I can let that go rather than just, I'm uncomfortable.
[11:28] Speaker 1: I don't like it.
[11:29] Speaker 2: Yes.
[11:29] Speaker 1: And she said little boys going to school can feel
[11:31] Speaker 1: like a war zone.
[11:32] Speaker 2: You know, suddenly they're in an environment which goes against
[11:35] Speaker 2: everything that they are inherently designed to do, which is
[11:38] Speaker 2: go out, hunt and gather.
[11:40] Speaker 1: Run from cheetahs. Exactly, run from cheetahs instead of sitting
[11:43] Speaker 1: in a.
[11:43] Speaker 3: I just laugh because I'm like, I don't think humans
[11:45] Speaker 3: ever outrun a cheetah. I mean, it's the metric we
[11:47] Speaker 3: call on so often. You know, they had to run
[11:50] Speaker 3: from cheetahs. It's like, I think the cheetah mauled them.
[11:52] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they died. I don't think any human
[11:54] Speaker 1: ever actually outran the cheetah.
[11:55] Speaker 2: And then their families died because they didn't have food.
[11:58] Speaker 2: And that's why the lifespan back then was 21 years.
[12:02] Speaker 2: But she also talked about picking your kid up from
[12:05] Speaker 2: school and to stop asking, how was your day?
[12:08] Speaker 1: She's like, they've just survived a war zone.
[12:10] Speaker 2: They've had to learn to sit still, not wriggle, not
[12:12] Speaker 2: talk out loud, confine their physical time to recess and
[12:16] Speaker 2: lunch and focus, focus, focus, be told to sit still, listen, da, da, da, da, da.
[12:21] Speaker 2: Don't then make the first thing you ask them is
[12:23] Speaker 2: how is your day? Because she said, all you're going
[12:25] Speaker 2: to get is good.
[12:26] Speaker 1: Yeah. Cause they're done. They're done. They will download later.
[12:30] Speaker 2: And she said at the most inconvenient time, like bedtime,
[12:34] Speaker 2: but that is where you give them your seven minutes
[12:36] Speaker 2: of full focus and energy and attention and ask them
[12:38] Speaker 2: about their day and get them talking. And she's also
[12:41] Speaker 2: spent a lot of time about how we need to
[12:43] Speaker 2: reduce flowery language for boys. because their brains don't process
[12:48] Speaker 2: it the way women do. I'm going to fuck this up,
[12:51] Speaker 2: but I'm just going to throw a number out. But
[12:53] Speaker 2: it was like men use something like 7,000 words a
[12:56] Speaker 2: day and women use like 14,000.
[12:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
[12:59] Speaker 2: You know, that hasn't come out of nowhere. It's like
[13:02] Speaker 2: that's a very real thing. We use more flowery language.
[13:04] Speaker 2: We express ourselves through words more. Boys don't. And so
[13:08] Speaker 2: she said, just sometimes saying to your son, hat on
[13:11] Speaker 2: head is enough.
[13:13] Speaker 1: That's enough.
[13:15] Speaker 2: His brain can process that beautifully. Hat on head. Don't
[13:19] Speaker 2: then go, I need you to wear your hat. Yeah,
[13:22] Speaker 2: you need to wear your hat because it's protecting from
[13:24] Speaker 2: the sun. She's like, he's not hearing any of that.
[13:26] Speaker 2: But what he will be more.
[13:27] Speaker 1: Responsive to is hat on head. 100%.
[13:29] Speaker 2: And I thought, fuck, that's so brilliant. Yes. That tracks. Yes.
[13:33] Speaker 1: And with Iggy now I'm just like shoes on feet.
[13:38] Speaker 1: Let's go. Bum in shower.
[13:40] Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, boys.
[13:44] Speaker 1: It's delightful. Anyway, it was just such a brilliant talk.
[13:47] Speaker 2: And if you ever find out that she is in
[13:50] Speaker 2: your suburb, your LGA, you know, go and see her.
[13:54] Speaker 1: Just listen to her pod. Who's that Maggie Den of girls?
[13:56] Speaker 2: You know?
[13:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, they have.
[13:58] Speaker 2: Who do we have? There's the Raising Girls Who Like
[14:00] Speaker 2: Themselves book, which I have. It's written by Casey Edwards.
[14:04] Speaker 2: 10 out of 10. Highly, highly, highly recommend. I'm very
[14:08] Speaker 2: obsessed with the huge developmental milestone, particularly with eight-year-old girls.
[14:13] Speaker 2: A psychiatrist who my daughter's been saying explained to me
[14:17] Speaker 2: about the biggest milestones in the span of like your
[14:21] Speaker 2: baby's life through to 18 years old.
[14:23] Speaker 1: And eight is the next big one. And then after that,
[14:27] Speaker 1: it's actually 14. I believe it.
[14:29] Speaker 2: From a hormonal shift perspective and the way the brain
[14:32] Speaker 2: chemistry changes and alters. And eight is really fascinating for
[14:36] Speaker 2: girls because it's when they start to figure out their
[14:38] Speaker 2: place in social hierarchies.
[14:40] Speaker 1: And that imprints for life.
[14:41] Speaker 3: Yeah. Seven and eight also across all genders is psychologically
[14:48] Speaker 3: absolutely fraught. Like it's where we all sort of make
[14:52] Speaker 3: these like lifelong stories about ourselves.
[14:55] Speaker 1: It's where we lose our confidence if there is confidence
[14:57] Speaker 1: to be lost. Which there always is.
[14:59] Speaker 2: It's also the age where they gain perspective for the
[15:02] Speaker 2: first time, which is huge. So if your kid up
[15:05] Speaker 2: until this age has perhaps demonstrated perhaps lack in empathy,
[15:09] Speaker 2: like fear not, because eight is where it really starts
[15:12] Speaker 2: to develop because they can't often see it from the
[15:14] Speaker 2: other perspective.
[15:15] Speaker 1: You know how we say, how would you feel if blah,
[15:17] Speaker 1: blah did that to you?
[15:18] Speaker 2: Iggy as a six-year-old struggles. He can't actually put himself
[15:23] Speaker 2: in someone else's shoes. Eight is when they have the
[15:25] Speaker 2: ability for perspective, which is great. Yeah. But then with
[15:29] Speaker 2: that comes all the complexities of like, well, then why
[15:31] Speaker 2: is that person treating me like that when I wouldn't
[15:34] Speaker 2: do it?
[15:35] Speaker 3: Anyone who's got a psychological injury like narcissism or whatever,
[15:39] Speaker 3: any of those things that show up later in adulthood,
[15:42] Speaker 3: they track it all back to age seven, eight.
[15:44] Speaker 1: I believe that.
[15:45] Speaker 3: That's where the wound start that is created. So it's
[15:47] Speaker 3: a very, very important time.
[15:50] Speaker 1: Interesting. Yeah.
[15:51] Speaker 2: Anyway, I just found it really helpful kind of checking
[15:53] Speaker 2: in on these things with experts like Maggie Dent just
[15:56] Speaker 2: because we're constantly needing like software upgrades with the tools
[16:00] Speaker 2: that we use in our home because I don't know
[16:02] Speaker 2: about you, Rebs, but like everything moves in cycles.
[16:05] Speaker 1: Like you can go through like a really great season.
[16:08] Speaker 2: I'm speaking specifically with like the mother son relationship. And
[16:11] Speaker 2: then sometimes you feel like, oh, God, I like it's
[16:13] Speaker 2: like I'm speaking a foreign language to you. I'm speaking Swedish.
[16:16] Speaker 2: You're speaking Chinese. We're really not understanding each other.
[16:19] Speaker 3: My journey so far in parenting with my two different
[16:22] Speaker 3: gendered kids is my daughter takes more energy from me
[16:27] Speaker 3: in terms of like, but I have really confident in
[16:29] Speaker 3: my instincts. My son, I can easily see how people
[16:32] Speaker 3: think boys are easier, but it's just that it's more covert.
[16:35] Speaker 3: All the same level of stuff is there. It's just,
[16:38] Speaker 3: I don't see it as quickly. My instinct doesn't get it.
[16:41] Speaker 3: I need to work harder. So the effort is on
[16:43] Speaker 3: the figuring him out. Whereas my daughter, I've got her
[16:46] Speaker 3: figured out. It's the man, like not managing, but the,
[16:49] Speaker 3: you know, being what she needs from me, it takes
[16:51] Speaker 3: a lot of energy.
[16:53] Speaker 1: But with my son, it's like, who are you? What
[16:55] Speaker 1: is happening?
[16:57] Speaker 3: And when I get it, oh my God, how we
[17:01] Speaker 3: find a flow.
[17:02] Speaker 1: But then just as soon as I get it, it changes.
[17:04] Speaker 1: But you talking about covert is so spot on.
[17:06] Speaker 2: Because sometimes there's underlying things that you can absolutely miss.
[17:11] Speaker 1: There's an inner world going on in your son.
[17:14] Speaker 2: And I know I've had this experience with Iggy and
[17:17] Speaker 2: I work so hard at it. I know speaking maybe
[17:19] Speaker 2: doesn't come as naturally to boys or using verbal language
[17:22] Speaker 2: as a form of communication. And I can definitely see
[17:25] Speaker 2: that in Iggy, but I work really hard at trying
[17:27] Speaker 2: to get him to verbalize what he is feeling. But
[17:31] Speaker 2: tell you what, you know what I don't have time for?
[17:34] Speaker 2: Like the moment he's a full on drama king. And
[17:37] Speaker 2: I use the term drama king because why the fuck
[17:39] Speaker 2: doesn't that term exist?
[17:41] Speaker 1: It does.
[17:41] Speaker 2: And why does drama queen become so normalized in how
[17:44] Speaker 2: we describe little girls being dramatic? I've worked so hard
[17:48] Speaker 2: at helping my son express his feelings that I've overcorrected.
[17:52] Speaker 3: Oh no.
[17:52] Speaker 2: And now I've got a full blown emotional feeling drama king.
[17:56] Speaker 1: Um, And the shit that comes out of his mouth revs.
[18:00] Speaker 1: Like lately it's been, you're my mother. Oh, I get this.
[18:04] Speaker 1: I'm your son and I'm hurt. Can't you see I'm hurt?
[18:09] Speaker 1: You're my mum. You're supposed to care. You don't care.
[18:12] Speaker 1: You don't care about me.
[18:14] Speaker 3: What kind of mother leaves his son crying on the floor?
[18:18] Speaker 1: Oh, I get this too. I get that too.
[18:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[18:21] Speaker 1: And also I get, I'm going to join another family.
[18:24] Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
[18:24] Speaker 1: A family where the mum cares about her son. And honestly,
[18:30] Speaker 1: he like tripped on the rug. I'm not even joking.
[18:33] Speaker 2: He like tripped on the rug or like stubbed his
[18:35] Speaker 2: toe and it's like the absolute.
[18:38] Speaker 1: Performance is something to behold.
[18:41] Speaker 2: It's the beginnings of manipulative emotional behaviour and we cannot
[18:45] Speaker 2: abide it, Gem.
[18:46] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[18:46] Speaker 2: We cannot indulge in it. But how funny is the
[18:48] Speaker 2: trajectory of manipulation? Like I feel like this is quite universal.
[18:52] Speaker 2: It starts with you're not invited to my birthday. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[18:55] Speaker 2: Like that's the first thing they learn to weaponise. The
[18:57] Speaker 2: first thing they have control over.
[18:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, pun GP.
[18:59] Speaker 2: And now it's what kind of mother are you? I'm
[19:02] Speaker 2: going to find a different family. I'm like, okay.
[19:06] Speaker 1: Best of luck with that. Yeah, good luck. I do
[19:08] Speaker 1: that sometimes. I call it bluff and I go, all right,
[19:10] Speaker 1: guess you'll join another family then. Jumper in bag. Yeah.
[19:13] Speaker 1: There you go. Hat on head. Hat on head. Shoes
[19:16] Speaker 1: on feet. Off you go. Bye-bye. I get that from Teddy.
[19:22] Speaker 3: Usually it's when he's very tired, you know, and I
[19:25] Speaker 3: feel like, yes, what we were just saying before, they
[19:27] Speaker 3: do have as rich an inner life as girls.
[19:29] Speaker 1: I think it's really easy sometimes to go, boys are
[19:30] Speaker 1: so fucking simple. Yeah, they're not. They're so simple. It's not.
[19:33] Speaker 3: It's just they don't have the access that girls have,
[19:36] Speaker 3: I think, sometimes.
[19:37] Speaker 1: And I feel it's our job to help them. Sure, yeah.
[19:41] Speaker 3: Or at least hold space and understand, but not when
[19:43] Speaker 3: they're being fucking melodramatic, Oscar winning manipulative drama kings.
[19:48] Speaker 1: I know.
[19:49] Speaker 2: The part of it, like it's hard not to laugh
[19:51] Speaker 2: in their face because that does make it worse. Yes,
[19:53] Speaker 2: it does make it worse but it's so hard.
[19:55] Speaker 3: Yeah, and we all know that's a man's biggest fear
[19:57] Speaker 3: is that a woman will laugh at him. It probably
[19:59] Speaker 3: does start from this exact moment in life when they're like,
[20:03] Speaker 3: you're my mother and their mother's.
[20:04] Speaker 1: Laughing in their face.
[20:05] Speaker 3: So, you know, it's very hard not to laugh in
[20:07] Speaker 3: their face, but also like we can't be letting them
[20:10] Speaker 3: weaponize feelings like that towards the women in their lives
[20:14] Speaker 3: because that is not going to breed anything good for
[20:16] Speaker 3: the future.
[20:17] Speaker 1: Deaf's not. but it is it's funny oh.
[20:21] Speaker 2: Totally and i struggle with the dance of like how
[20:23] Speaker 2: much do i indulge this like how much space do
[20:26] Speaker 2: i have the thing about iggy is he's got heart
[20:29] Speaker 2: on sleeve this is a conflict here because you don't
[20:34] Speaker 2: use too much flowery language because they're not gonna process
[20:37] Speaker 2: it yes but what do you do well he now
[20:39] Speaker 2: yells at me i.
[20:41] Speaker 1: I'm allowed to cry. I'm allowed to feel my feelings.
[20:45] Speaker 2: And I'm like, I've not said you can't cry. I
[20:48] Speaker 2: have never, ever in my life told you to stop crying.
[20:51] Speaker 2: I'm just asking you to dial the volume down.
[20:53] Speaker 1: That's all I'm asking.
[20:54] Speaker 2: Can you cry a little louder, softer?
[20:56] Speaker 1: Dial it down. That's a big cry. It's a big cry.
[21:01] Speaker 2: Your whole soccer team's looking at you like, you know,
[21:03] Speaker 2: like you're going to be okay.
[21:05] Speaker 1: But anyway. It's the hug. It's physical.
[21:09] Speaker 2: Yes.
[21:09] Speaker 1: It would be for Teddy. I don't know if that's universal.
[21:11] Speaker 3: But for Teddy, it's like he needs physical closeness and
[21:15] Speaker 3: tactile expressions of love. And yes, some soothing words. But
[21:19] Speaker 3: I honestly think he's just hearing the timbre of my voice.
[21:21] Speaker 3: I don't think it's what I'm saying.
[21:23] Speaker 1: No.
[21:24] Speaker 2: Iggy's very much the same. And I have to say
[21:26] Speaker 2: to him, because he gets quite stubborn. You know, when
[21:28] Speaker 2: they're emotional and then they kind of push you away,
[21:30] Speaker 2: but they don't want you to go away, that whole dynamic.
[21:34] Speaker 2: And I always just say, I've got a hug waiting
[21:36] Speaker 2: for you right here if you want it. Or you
[21:38] Speaker 2: tell me when you're ready. That's what I find kind
[21:40] Speaker 2: of works for us. And then I walk away and
[21:42] Speaker 2: it annoys him. because he wants that hug. But then
[21:45] Speaker 2: when I offered it, he didn't take it up. And
[21:47] Speaker 2: then eventually he'll come up to me and he goes,
[21:48] Speaker 2: I need a hug.
[21:49] Speaker 1: And I'm like, I've got one for you. See, it's
[21:51] Speaker 1: right here. Does Just Add Water work for your kids?
[21:53] Speaker 1: It's always worked for mine. Not really.
[21:57] Speaker 2: Well.
[21:58] Speaker 1: Like, give me an example.
[21:59] Speaker 3: Well, someone told me this when I had very little
[22:01] Speaker 3: kids and they were like, if you can't break a loop,
[22:04] Speaker 3: just add water. And that could be they need a
[22:06] Speaker 3: big drink of water, chuck them in water, like in
[22:09] Speaker 3: the bath, in the shower, in the ocean, in a pool, whatever,
[22:11] Speaker 3: or give them water to play with.
[22:14] Speaker 1: Um, and it's always, always worked. And it's something I
[22:17] Speaker 1: still use on them.
[22:18] Speaker 3: Like sometimes if Ted's in a, like a, either of
[22:20] Speaker 3: them are in a cycle, I'm like, okay, it's shower time,
[22:23] Speaker 3: you know, and just get them in water and then
[22:25] Speaker 3: like a big glass of water, that kind of stuff.
[22:27] Speaker 1: Like, and it just, it really, it's so fun.
[22:29] Speaker 3: Fucking simple but it really I mean it's a big
[22:32] Speaker 3: toddler thing but it just still works for my kids
[22:34] Speaker 3: just breaks the cycle no because if.
[22:37] Speaker 2: I'm like let's get in the bath he's like no
[22:39] Speaker 2: like I it's for me it's the getting him there
[22:41] Speaker 2: oh you still have to force the situation they're not
[22:43] Speaker 2: going to willingly go into anything but it's like you
[22:46] Speaker 2: setting up a scenario that involves water do you know
[22:49] Speaker 2: what works best for my kids is if they're deep
[22:51] Speaker 2: in a loop of rage sadness crying whatever it is
[22:55] Speaker 2: I just go like that and they go what because
[22:58] Speaker 2: they want him And then I go, sorry, I just
[23:01] Speaker 2: thought I nearly pooed my pants. And then I get embarrassed.
[23:06] Speaker 2: I'm performing, embarrassed. And they go, what do you mean, Mum?
[23:09] Speaker 2: And I go, I went to do a silent fart.
[23:12] Speaker 2: And they want to know the mechanics. Hey, how many
[23:14] Speaker 2: times can you use this?
[23:15] Speaker 1: Oh, I've used it a few times. A few times.
[23:18] Speaker 1: There's Maggie Dent and there's Gemma Peanut. No, it fucking works.
[23:21] Speaker 1: I'm telling you.
[23:22] Speaker 3: For parenting nuggets, pun intended, please come to our show.
[23:28] Speaker 1: We don't have time for this. Backed by science.
[23:31] Speaker 3: Perform a shot and you will break your child's behavioral loop.
[23:35] Speaker 1: Oh, you will. Evidence-based research. Evidence-based research. It worked twice.
[23:40] Speaker 1: It worked twice. Surely you've got tickets. You can only
[23:43] Speaker 1: use that so many times. Yeah, but when I pull
[23:46] Speaker 1: it out, it is impactful. I'm telling you. Pun intended.
[23:49] Speaker 1: It is so impactful. Is that the one? What was
[23:52] Speaker 1: the one, the trend that went around about that? It
[23:55] Speaker 1: was similar. It was like you start going, Caroline? Caroline? Yep,
[24:00] Speaker 1: I've done that before. Is it Caroline? What is the name?
[24:03] Speaker 1: It's exactly the same theory. Is it Elizabeth or Victoria? Oh, yeah,
[24:06] Speaker 1: maybe it's Elizabeth.
[24:07] Speaker 3: It's the same thing as like you're just breaking this,
[24:10] Speaker 3: like we're sitting in this feeling.
[24:12] Speaker 1: And I'm like talking him through his feelings.
[24:14] Speaker 2: Elizabeth? Elizabeth?
[24:15] Speaker 1: And the kids are like, all these toddlers are like, yes.
[24:20] Speaker 1: So it's the same theory. So you can mix it up.
[24:23] Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be a shot, ladies and gentlemen,
[24:25] Speaker 1: if that's not your flavor. It's great because I get
[24:27] Speaker 1: a giggle out of them.
[24:28] Speaker 2: I get a full because my kids' favorite thing in
[24:32] Speaker 2: the world is me embarrassed because I don't get embarrassed.
[24:36] Speaker 1: And then they go, you didn't. And I go, I don't.
[24:38] Speaker 1: What do I do? And then we troubleshoot it. And
[24:40] Speaker 1: suddenly we're like working together to problem solve. But then
[24:44] Speaker 1: how do you get back on track? Because then at
[24:45] Speaker 1: some point you've got to go, okay, now it's time
[24:47] Speaker 1: for that.
[24:47] Speaker 2: No!
[24:48] Speaker 1: Does that not happen? And how do you get them
[24:50] Speaker 1: to process their feelings? Oh, we talk about it later.
[24:53] Speaker 1: I'm very good. Kick the can down the road, Katie.
[24:56] Speaker 1: What are you not understanding about Gem's parenting theory?
[24:59] Speaker 2: Katie.
[24:59] Speaker 1: It's when she's had enough. Sorry, yes, you're right, you're right.
[25:02] Speaker 2: Honestly, best time for me is in the car with
[25:05] Speaker 2: the kids or bedtime. I'll be like, hey, you know
[25:08] Speaker 2: how earlier today you felt this? I just want to
[25:10] Speaker 2: come back to that for a second.
[25:11] Speaker 1: And they'll be like, why? And I'll be like, well,
[25:13] Speaker 1: you felt this and I just want to check in.
[25:15] Speaker 1: And then we talk about it. Car's the best for me.
[25:17] Speaker 2: They're resourced to have the conversation because they're not at
[25:21] Speaker 2: a stage 100 emotionally where exactly what Rev said, they're
[25:25] Speaker 2: not hearing what you're saying. It's like they hear the
[25:27] Speaker 2: timbre of your voice. They can hear you trying to
[25:29] Speaker 2: be calm, trying to be the water to their fire, blah, blah, blah, whatever.
[25:32] Speaker 2: But the actual conversation happens later. Hmm. Because it's not productive.
[25:37] Speaker 2: I had to teach my husband this because he's like
[25:39] Speaker 2: trying to get- Have the teaching moment in the moment.
[25:41] Speaker 1: Trying to have the teaching moment in the moment.
[25:43] Speaker 2: I'm like, this ain't it. You're just going to escalate it.
[25:45] Speaker 2: You can see they're seeing nothing but red. Have it
[25:48] Speaker 2: later when they're coming. But important to have it because
[25:50] Speaker 2: as you said, they've still got to process it. Mm-hmm.
[25:52] Speaker 2: So with Iggy, literally about him dialing the volume down
[25:56] Speaker 2: because he's getting to an age now where his cries
[25:59] Speaker 2: over a sub toe are so loud and so expressive,
[26:02] Speaker 2: it alarms other parents and then they think something's really
[26:06] Speaker 2: wrong with him.
[26:07] Speaker 1: And then I look like an arse. Bless him. No,
[26:10] Speaker 1: but thankfully his soccer team, for example, know. They're like, oh, yeah. Yeah.
[26:14] Speaker 2: We have an emotional kid on one of our sports teams.
[26:16] Speaker 2: And yes, at the beginning it.
[26:17] Speaker 1: Was like, oh God, is he okay? And now everyone goes,
[26:19] Speaker 1: just knows.
[26:21] Speaker 2: And you know, like his soccer team knows, they know
[26:24] Speaker 2: how I handle it. They know that I've told him
[26:25] Speaker 2: there's a hug waiting for him. I'm not ignoring him,
[26:28] Speaker 2: but his cries are distressing and they go on and
[26:30] Speaker 2: on and on. So I had to kind of explain
[26:32] Speaker 2: that to Iggy again at that time when he's out
[26:35] Speaker 2: of the emotion to be This is the knock-on effect.
[26:38] Speaker 1: This is the impact on the people around you. Is
[26:40] Speaker 1: that it makes the other.
[26:41] Speaker 2: Parents worry about you and, you know, a sub-toe doesn't
[26:45] Speaker 2: warrant like do we need to call an ambulance, but
[26:48] Speaker 2: that's where they go and that's where they get to.
[26:50] Speaker 1: Yeah, weirdly the boy who cried wolf story just hasn't landed.
[26:54] Speaker 1: It doesn't work with my kids either. They're a bit like,
[26:56] Speaker 1: all right, well, there was no wolf. And I'm like, no. Yeah,
[26:59] Speaker 1: you're not getting it. You're not getting it. You're not
[27:02] Speaker 1: fucking getting it.
[27:03] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[27:03] Speaker 1: I've got to say, all those fables could use an update. Definitely.
[27:06] Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of people dying. Are there?
[27:09] Speaker 1: In all those fables. Yes, it's always like, you know,
[27:12] Speaker 1: for fear of death. Oh, God. I just think that
[27:15] Speaker 1: we can have a more, we need a modern, someone
[27:17] Speaker 1: do that.
[27:17] Speaker 2: I mean, I also had to work really hard on
[27:20] Speaker 2: myself to learn not to be embarrassed about a child.
[27:23] Speaker 1: I mean, full screaming, like full blood curdling.
[27:27] Speaker 2: You know, like in a restaurant, everyone's like, what is going,
[27:30] Speaker 2: you know.
[27:30] Speaker 3: It is the price of allowing your kids to feel
[27:32] Speaker 3: their feelings is that you probably will get embarrassed publicly.
[27:35] Speaker 2: But it's worth it to me because I will never
[27:38] Speaker 2: say stop. crying yeah ever I will say turn down
[27:42] Speaker 2: the volume.
[27:42] Speaker 3: Yeah stop crying is about the parents discomfort yes yeah yeah.
[27:46] Speaker 2: I'm like it's okay to feel your feelings but maybe
[27:48] Speaker 2: we'll go into another room or maybe like let's go
[27:50] Speaker 2: somewhere else feel your feelings in this soundproof den Please, that.
[27:54] Speaker 1: Would be lovely. Not in this restaurant or on this plane. Oh, dear.
[27:59] Speaker 2: That's okay to learn to, you know.
[28:01] Speaker 3: Some things are in private and some things are for
[28:04] Speaker 3: public consumption.
[28:05] Speaker 1: It doesn't mean you don't get to feel your feelings.
[28:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, he definitely hasn't got to that age where he
[28:11] Speaker 2: feels any sense of embarrassment. Like I feel like I
[28:15] Speaker 2: feel Rafa's an eight year old has more awareness of
[28:17] Speaker 2: other people and she would never just like wail for
[28:21] Speaker 2: 30 minutes because she'll be like, people will look at
[28:24] Speaker 2: me and I don't want that.
[28:25] Speaker 1: Whereas he hasn't developed that yet. I know he'll get there.
[28:27] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[28:28] Speaker 1: It's like our kids learn modesty. It comes in time. Totally.
[28:31] Speaker 1: You know?
[28:31] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[28:31] Speaker 3: Actually I was at the beach with some friends the
[28:34] Speaker 3: other day who have much younger kids and the mom
[28:36] Speaker 3: was saying.
[28:37] Speaker 1: To me, Oh, they just love being.
[28:39] Speaker 2: Nude at the beach.
[28:40] Speaker 1: Like when do I have to? And I was like,
[28:41] Speaker 1: they will tell you. you know, they will tell.
[28:43] Speaker 3: You when they're not comfortable, like, you know, she will
[28:46] Speaker 3: just start not wanting to be nude or she'll wanting
[28:49] Speaker 3: to go get changed on her own.
[28:50] Speaker 1: And like, it just happens and it's heartbreaking, but it
[28:53] Speaker 1: will happen.
[28:54] Speaker 2: I'm suddenly realizing maybe because I'm feeling all the feels
[28:57] Speaker 2: about this now, because Iggy's about to finish his first
[28:59] Speaker 2: year of school and he's my last kid.
[29:02] Speaker 1: I've got two in school.
[29:03] Speaker 2: So I But I think I just want to acknowledge
[29:06] Speaker 2: the enormous transition into school life and the fact that
[29:11] Speaker 2: your kids spend five out of seven days a week
[29:14] Speaker 2: at this institution, how you're no longer the biggest influence
[29:19] Speaker 2: in their life. And just so much change has happened
[29:23] Speaker 2: and they come home and learn all these things.
[29:25] Speaker 1: I just want to say this to our DLs.
[29:27] Speaker 2: Who still have preschool age kids or are straddling both worlds.
[29:30] Speaker 2: Like it's a huge, huge shift for you as a parent.
[29:33] Speaker 2: Like I've had to make big adjustments. Like who is
[29:36] Speaker 2: this kid? I talked about it on the pod maybe
[29:38] Speaker 2: last week or the week before about how Iggy had
[29:40] Speaker 2: no passions or.
[29:41] Speaker 1: Interests or no obvious ones at least until he started
[29:44] Speaker 1: school yeah and it's just really cool to see your
[29:47] Speaker 1: little people change it can also be a bit heartbreaking
[29:50] Speaker 1: yeah as a parent it is you know And that's okay.
[29:53] Speaker 1: It is, but it doesn't.
[29:54] Speaker 3: Just like we were talking the other day at our show,
[29:56] Speaker 3: Fam Hang, about like there's no bigger transition from no
[29:59] Speaker 3: kids to one kid. It doesn't matter how many kids
[30:01] Speaker 3: you stack on. Like it seems to be like you'll never,
[30:04] Speaker 3: ever go through anything like when you went from not
[30:06] Speaker 3: a parent to a parent.
[30:08] Speaker 1: Kindy is a crucible. And then it slows down a.
[30:11] Speaker 3: Bit between, you know, kindy and year four or five,
[30:15] Speaker 3: you know, like, yes.
[30:16] Speaker 1: That first year is absolutely huge. And then you do
[30:19] Speaker 1: get to catch your breath a little bit.
[30:21] Speaker 2: Do you?
[30:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, 100%. Kindy is just the first. It's the first year.
[30:26] Speaker 1: It's the first time. It's the first teacher. Yeah. It's
[30:28] Speaker 1: the first friendship group stuff. And real independence.
[30:32] Speaker 3: And the first time they do that schedule in the week,
[30:34] Speaker 3: as you're saying. I still do believe, though, and maybe
[30:37] Speaker 3: this settles after kindy. I'm trying to take myself back.
[30:40] Speaker 3: I think we are still the biggest influencers on our kids.
[30:43] Speaker 3: Even though they spend a lot of time at school, the.
[30:46] Speaker 2: Home is like still so like my daughter is just
[30:51] Speaker 2: starting to care about what her friends think, but she
[30:53] Speaker 2: still cares more about what I think, you know, like,
[30:56] Speaker 2: and that's natural. She's supposed to start pulling away and
[30:58] Speaker 2: defer to friends rather than her parents.
[31:01] Speaker 1: But that's like she still really fucking cares. I feel
[31:04] Speaker 1: like Isla's more unique, no? She's more of an outlier.
[31:07] Speaker 3: She's slower to mature in this way, definitely. Like I
[31:12] Speaker 3: see some of her girlfriends and they're like off, like
[31:14] Speaker 3: off and away, friends are everything, really wanting to be independent.
[31:18] Speaker 3: But even before all that happened, and that's all happened
[31:21] Speaker 3: pretty much end of year five. But even before all that,
[31:24] Speaker 3: like they spend a lot of time at school, but
[31:26] Speaker 3: it's still like they come home to you as their lighthouse.
[31:28] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[31:29] Speaker 1: To like just check that they're on course, you know?
[31:32] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
[31:33] Speaker 1: I think high school is where we're really going to see.
[31:34] Speaker 1: That's really comforting actually. Yeah. I needed to hear that.
[31:37] Speaker 3: But there's definitely other, like, yes, there's new inputs and
[31:40] Speaker 3: there's other influences and it's all starting, but you're there. Yeah.
[31:44] Speaker 2: What I do love is they bring things home and
[31:47] Speaker 2: try and test what your thoughts.
[31:50] Speaker 1: Are on that. I'm definitely getting that. Like Rafa will
[31:52] Speaker 1: come home and sing songs and, That are a bit rude.
[31:56] Speaker 1: What was one? At the moment she's on this. Like
[31:58] Speaker 1: toilet humor stuff.
[31:59] Speaker 2: Yeah. But also like right now it's, I'm a Barbie girl.
[32:03] Speaker 2: You know, my boobs are plastic. It's fantastic. And she's
[32:06] Speaker 2: like singing it, but waiting for a reaction. And there's
[32:08] Speaker 2: this one bit like, grab a gun, stick it up
[32:10] Speaker 2: your bum.
[32:11] Speaker 1: Oh, wow. I know. And I'm just like, what?
[32:13] Speaker 2: Are you singing that's ridiculous and she's like what it's
[32:16] Speaker 2: funny and i'm like is it i was like i
[32:18] Speaker 2: don't think it's funny i think it's kind of lame
[32:19] Speaker 2: there you go so she's doing it to test against
[32:22] Speaker 2: your values.
[32:23] Speaker 3: Yeah oh my god do you remember some of the
[32:24] Speaker 3: fucking fucked up songs we had unaware of what I
[32:28] Speaker 3: was singing.
[32:29] Speaker 1: I just melodically enjoyed it.
[32:30] Speaker 2: That's the most chewy going thing ever.
[32:35] Speaker 3: No, but we used to have like ding dong, the
[32:37] Speaker 3: teacher's dead, cut off their head.
[32:40] Speaker 1: Didn't we? And then we had like Christmas songs. Like
[32:44] Speaker 1: millennial parents would be horrified where they get that. Was
[32:46] Speaker 1: it YouTube? You know what I mean? Whereas we just
[32:49] Speaker 1: got it from the fucking playground. Yes.
[32:51] Speaker 3: From that snotty little fucking gum-chewing kid who has five
[32:55] Speaker 3: older brothers.
[32:56] Speaker 1: That's absolutely it. No, you're right. But, like, that's where
[32:59] Speaker 1: we got it.
[33:00] Speaker 3: And it might be where they're getting it or they
[33:01] Speaker 3: might get it from YouTube or whatever. But, like, the
[33:03] Speaker 3: pearl clutching, like, where did that come from is not new.
[33:06] Speaker 3: They also don't know what they're singing.
[33:07] Speaker 1: No, totally.
[33:08] Speaker 2: They're laughing about putting something up their bottom.
[33:10] Speaker 3: They're not actually thinking about sticking something up their bum.
[33:14] Speaker 2: And we have to remember that because it's easy to
[33:16] Speaker 2: be like horrified. But then it's like, hang on, what
[33:18] Speaker 2: were some of the dumb songs that we sang? They're
[33:20] Speaker 2: just rhymes.
[33:21] Speaker 1: They just rhyme. We didn't really want to kill our teachers.
[33:24] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just kids testing limits and making silly jokes,
[33:27] Speaker 3: you know. Well, do you know what I don't have
[33:29] Speaker 3: time for? What don't you have time for, Rebsi?
[33:31] Speaker 1: Okay, so.
[33:34] Speaker 2: God, not without going into all the weeds, like just
[33:37] Speaker 2: with the busy year we've had and everything, I've just
[33:40] Speaker 2: put a lot of things off.
[33:41] Speaker 1: And then as tends to happen, it all came crashing down.
[33:44] Speaker 3: My whole life fell apart, almost quite literally from an
[33:47] Speaker 3: admin and finance point of view. And I had to
[33:49] Speaker 3: call the ATO and get on a payment plan. Now,
[33:52] Speaker 3: small business owners, self-employed, sole traders, you'll understand this. There's
[33:57] Speaker 3: just always so much admin to do with taxes and
[34:01] Speaker 3: looking after your money. And yeah, because everything was so busy,
[34:05] Speaker 3: I just was like, I can't deal with that now,
[34:06] Speaker 3: deal with it later, deal with it later, forgot to
[34:08] Speaker 3: deal with it. My MyGov emails were going to my spam.
[34:11] Speaker 3: A series of unfortunate events led me to an overwhelming
[34:14] Speaker 3: amount of debt that I had to sort out or
[34:16] Speaker 3: I was going to be in trouble.
[34:20] Speaker 1: So basically I went into the worst.
[34:21] Speaker 3: I went into my MyGov and this is just like
[34:24] Speaker 3: the universe delivering me a slight opportunity here.
[34:27] Speaker 1: But I went in for Isla. I had to find
[34:29] Speaker 1: her immunization records for her high school enrollment.
[34:31] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[34:31] Speaker 1: It's all there together. So I went in and then
[34:33] Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, I've got a letter from the ATO.
[34:36] Speaker 1: Never good.
[34:36] Speaker 2: Often it's a red, like exclamation mark bubble thing.
[34:40] Speaker 1: I've had that. Correspondence. I was like, I better look
[34:43] Speaker 1: at it, looked at it.
[34:44] Speaker 3: And it was like, this huge tax bill is due
[34:47] Speaker 3: basically it was tomorrow now this had been sent weeks
[34:50] Speaker 3: ago but I hadn't got it and I was.
[34:53] Speaker 1: Like oh my god I don't have it I can't pay.
[34:56] Speaker 3: It and it was like and if it's not paid
[34:57] Speaker 3: by this time we will pursue they don't say legal
[35:00] Speaker 3: action but basically you'll get debt collectors on you and
[35:02] Speaker 3: you know I'm a single mom with a very big
[35:04] Speaker 3: mortgage I cannot have bad credit you know I need
[35:07] Speaker 3: to keep my credit pristine who knows what I'm going
[35:10] Speaker 3: to need it for so I.
[35:11] Speaker 1: Was like f Fuck. So stressful.
[35:13] Speaker 3: Into absolute panic stations, tried to figure things out. And
[35:16] Speaker 3: then I was like, you know what? It's like almost
[35:18] Speaker 3: 10 o'clock at night. I'm not going to solve this tonight.
[35:20] Speaker 3: I'm going to set my alarm. And tomorrow, as soon
[35:22] Speaker 3: as the ATO opens, I'm calling. So I call at
[35:26] Speaker 3: nine o'clock. I get in the line. It takes me
[35:28] Speaker 3: ages to get on. And I finally get on with
[35:30] Speaker 3: this beautiful woman, Joy. And I just wanted to share this.
[35:32] Speaker 1: Her name's Joy. Her name was Joy. And now she
[35:35] Speaker 1: was not inherently joyful. She works at the ATO. That's
[35:39] Speaker 1: a real shame. But I was pleased. It was a woman.
[35:41] Speaker 1: I was pleased.
[35:42] Speaker 3: Her name was Joy. And I was like, I'm taking
[35:43] Speaker 3: all of this as signs. We're going to work this out.
[35:45] Speaker 3: And I basically said, Joy, I'm going to level with you.
[35:47] Speaker 3: I can't pay a bill that's due tomorrow. Here's my situation.
[35:51] Speaker 3: Can I get on a payment plan? What are my options? Like,
[35:53] Speaker 3: please don't send the debt collectors after me. And please
[35:55] Speaker 3: don't like, I don't want to be in trouble, Joy. Like,
[35:58] Speaker 3: how do I not get in trouble with ATO daddy?
[36:00] Speaker 1: Okay. Like help me out. And she's like, all right, yep.
[36:03] Speaker 1: Let's go through everything. And they do what they always
[36:06] Speaker 1: do with these kinds of things.
[36:06] Speaker 3: If you have any experience or if you don't, basically
[36:08] Speaker 3: they say, what are your expenses every month? Like, and
[36:11] Speaker 3: they run through what they know. What do they know
[36:14] Speaker 3: about you? Cause that's how they work out these things.
[36:16] Speaker 3: And when you're a sole trader, You'll have peaks and troughs.
[36:18] Speaker 3: Some months you will earn more and some months you
[36:20] Speaker 3: will earn less. Some years you will earn more. Some
[36:22] Speaker 3: years you will earn less. But all the tax is
[36:24] Speaker 3: sort of this nominal algorithm where they try and work
[36:28] Speaker 3: out roughly.
[36:29] Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, this is quite semi-recent in the world of
[36:32] Speaker 2: taxes where we used to pay taxes annually. Mm-hmm. And
[36:36] Speaker 2: now it's quarterly because small businesses were fucking themselves.
[36:40] Speaker 1: Well, you used to be able to choose, but now
[36:41] Speaker 1: you can't choose.
[36:42] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[36:42] Speaker 1: But most people did the annual. Yeah. Most people, but
[36:45] Speaker 1: now it's a can down the road. Yeah. Tax in bank.
[36:49] Speaker 1: Later me can deal with it. But now it's like, no,
[36:52] Speaker 1: you will deal with it every three months.
[36:53] Speaker 2: Yes.
[36:54] Speaker 3: And more sausage, but just where I'm at in my
[36:57] Speaker 3: tax journey, I pay ahead and I'm paying behind.
[37:01] Speaker 2: Right. So I'm paying tax off from previous financial year
[37:04] Speaker 2: and I have to pay ahead. Kind of like you
[37:07] Speaker 2: would if you were employed where your tax is held.
[37:09] Speaker 2: It's sort of supposed to replicate that.
[37:11] Speaker 1: So I've got multiple tax bills running all the time.
[37:14] Speaker 3: Now, I'll only have to do that for 24 months
[37:17] Speaker 3: and I'm coming up to the end of that. But
[37:18] Speaker 3: it's just been a very full on 24 months to
[37:20] Speaker 3: be paying like it isn't, but it feels like double tax. Anyway,
[37:25] Speaker 3: so it's been stressful and I've had to work very
[37:27] Speaker 3: hard to be on top of it. As we all know,
[37:29] Speaker 3: this is not a joy space isn't even close. This
[37:32] Speaker 3: is a very difficult area for me as someone who
[37:35] Speaker 3: used to be fiscally afraid. This is a difficult area
[37:38] Speaker 3: for me, something I have to be very disciplined with
[37:41] Speaker 3: and push myself to stay on top of. It does
[37:43] Speaker 3: not come naturally and it's a fear space for me.
[37:46] Speaker 3: It's not that I'm like, I don't want to or bratty.
[37:49] Speaker 3: It's like, oh, I don't know how I'm going to
[37:51] Speaker 3: get it wrong, whatever. So I avoid it. Anyway, Joy,
[37:54] Speaker 3: we went through all the things and she was like, yes, okay,
[37:57] Speaker 3: we can get you on a payment plan.
[37:58] Speaker 1: Don't worry. We'll sort this out. Here's what we're going
[38:00] Speaker 1: to do. And then she said this, and I am
[38:03] Speaker 1: just so appreciative of this.
[38:04] Speaker 3: And I just wanted to share with you guys. She's like,
[38:06] Speaker 3: I just want to let you know, Kate, you are
[38:08] Speaker 3: the 17th call I've had today that is very similar
[38:12] Speaker 3: to this.
[38:13] Speaker 2: Hmm.
[38:13] Speaker 3: She's like, a lot of people can't afford what they
[38:16] Speaker 3: could afford three years ago. A lot of people's situations
[38:19] Speaker 3: have dramatically changed in the climate and the market and
[38:23] Speaker 3: the way the world is going and that most people
[38:26] Speaker 3: in your situation are having to do what you're doing here.
[38:29] Speaker 1: And I'm like, thank you, Joy. Thank you so much
[38:33] Speaker 1: for saying that, Joy.
[38:34] Speaker 3: And then I think I snapped her out of her
[38:36] Speaker 3: reverie because she was like, look, I really shouldn't be
[38:38] Speaker 3: talking to you like that, but.
[38:40] Speaker 1: I just wanted you to know. And I was like,
[38:42] Speaker 1: and this call's recorded, Joy. And she's like, okay, thank you, Kate,
[38:45] Speaker 1: for your time. Is there anything else I can help
[38:46] Speaker 1: you with today?
[38:47] Speaker 3: But it was such a gift because I was feeling
[38:50] Speaker 3: so much shame.
[38:51] Speaker 1: I think everyone does around finances. Oh, my God. Let's
[38:56] Speaker 1: be real.
[38:56] Speaker 2: This shit isn't taught in school. No. And it changes
[38:59] Speaker 2: so regularly. Why are we learning trigonometry? I want to
[39:03] Speaker 2: learn how to manage my taxes. But what would they
[39:07] Speaker 2: even teach in school?
[39:07] Speaker 1: Because as you say, it changes so regularly.
[39:10] Speaker 3: Like I learnt compound interest, I think.
[39:13] Speaker 1: Well, it doesn't.
[39:14] Speaker 2: Change that regularly like the biggest changes have been recent
[39:17] Speaker 2: but prior to then it was the same yeah I
[39:20] Speaker 2: mean I've been a sole trader for forever your entire
[39:22] Speaker 2: professional career yeah so it has it actually hasn't changed
[39:25] Speaker 2: that much but it's things that you can't really I
[39:28] Speaker 2: mean you could teach but things like your cashflow versus
[39:32] Speaker 2: your tax obligations versus your income, they're all such different things.
[39:36] Speaker 3: And learning to manage that as an adult is very,
[39:38] Speaker 3: takes a lot of experience and time.
[39:40] Speaker 1: Well, it does. And you're right.
[39:42] Speaker 2: Like you could argue that you could teach it in
[39:44] Speaker 2: school as a theoretic thing, but until you're in it,
[39:47] Speaker 2: you don't know. But I would have loved some sort
[39:50] Speaker 2: of heads up on stuff.
[39:51] Speaker 1: How do taxes work?
[39:52] Speaker 2: 101.
[39:52] Speaker 1: Well, it's just little.
[39:54] Speaker 2: Things like companies withhold your tax for you and you're
[39:57] Speaker 2: super for you. When you're a sole trader, you don't
[40:00] Speaker 2: have that. You don't have someone managing it for you.
[40:03] Speaker 2: And so you get paid money and you think it's
[40:05] Speaker 2: all for you and it's not. And you have to
[40:07] Speaker 2: be disciplined, as you say, to set money aside and
[40:10] Speaker 2: then Super is an opt-in and opt-out when you're a
[40:12] Speaker 2: sole trader. I don't know many sole traders who are
[40:15] Speaker 2: contributing to their own super or maybe when they get
[40:17] Speaker 2: some sort of bonus payment or they have a really
[40:19] Speaker 2: good year, then they'll lump and dump into their super themselves.
[40:23] Speaker 2: But it requires a lot of self-discipline.
[40:26] Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
[40:27] Speaker 1: And a lot of people don't have that.
[40:28] Speaker 3: Or you have to hire an accountant who's going to
[40:30] Speaker 3: force the discipline and the structure into your system.
[40:33] Speaker 1: So like you pay for it somewhere. There's no.
[40:35] Speaker 2: Sure.
[40:35] Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. But I empathize because I get it.
[40:39] Speaker 2: And like I had this mistake the first time I
[40:41] Speaker 2: made like a proper, proper salary was when I worked
[40:44] Speaker 2: on Neighbors and I got what's called like a royalties fee.
[40:49] Speaker 2: And I remember thinking, oh, my God, I just got
[40:51] Speaker 2: this like check for this like big amount, what felt
[40:53] Speaker 2: like a huge amount for a 24 year old.
[40:55] Speaker 1: And, you know, I was like, I haven't done anything extra.
[40:58] Speaker 2: I just got this check because it's in multiple countries
[41:01] Speaker 2: and I just get like this royalty amount. And then
[41:03] Speaker 2: like a year later, I didn't appreciate that I had
[41:06] Speaker 2: to pay tax on it.
[41:07] Speaker 1: Because it's income.
[41:08] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[41:08] Speaker 1: Because no one told me that.
[41:10] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
[41:10] Speaker 1: Why would they? Why would they?
[41:12] Speaker 2: Who?
[41:12] Speaker 1: Because you're an adult.
[41:13] Speaker 3: You're sent out into the world, into the professional life,
[41:15] Speaker 3: and you don't know until the ATGO goes.
[41:18] Speaker 1: Hey, Gem, you know that check? I want half of it. Totally.
[41:21] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[41:21] Speaker 1: And I just think, you know, knowledge is power, blah, blah, blah.
[41:24] Speaker 1: It's so boring.
[41:25] Speaker 2: And it's so, you know, age is all this time
[41:27] Speaker 2: to like make a statement like that.
[41:29] Speaker 1: But I know that like with my.
[41:30] Speaker 2: Kids, it's something I really care about that they like
[41:34] Speaker 2: know and understand these things because I realize it's not
[41:36] Speaker 2: going to be taught to them.
[41:37] Speaker 1: I'm going to have to like.
[41:38] Speaker 2: Somehow get it into them and have these conversations about.
[41:42] Speaker 1: Okay well what do we do what do we do
[41:43] Speaker 1: with that money is that all yours or do you
[41:45] Speaker 1: have to pay for some of it.
[41:46] Speaker 2: To the government yeah i know it doesn't go away
[41:48] Speaker 2: and i think with quarterly payments of tax one thing
[41:51] Speaker 2: i will say is someone who had it the old
[41:53] Speaker 2: guard way into the new guard is it feels like
[41:56] Speaker 2: it comes around so quick it does it really does
[42:00] Speaker 2: and as rev said you know you earn money as
[42:01] Speaker 2: a sole trader it peaks and troughs but what happens
[42:04] Speaker 2: is the ato goes oh Oh, well, in the first
[42:06] Speaker 2: quarter of the year, you might have had a make
[42:07] Speaker 2: pay while the sun shines moment. And then in your
[42:10] Speaker 2: next quarter, you had a really rough quarter. But the
[42:13] Speaker 2: ATO's predictions, in inverted commas, are based on the previous quarter.
[42:17] Speaker 2: And so they make you pay more tax and go,
[42:19] Speaker 2: we'll pay you back later. Yeah, and you're like, but when?
[42:21] Speaker 1: Once it's all ironed out. I'm just constantly in debt.
[42:24] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[42:25] Speaker 3: And then the interest you pay on a payment plan
[42:27] Speaker 3: is eye-watering but, like, you don't have an option because
[42:30] Speaker 3: you need cash flow in your life. So I just
[42:32] Speaker 3: want to acknowledge to you that it is complex and
[42:34] Speaker 3: if it doesn't come naturally and easy to you, it's
[42:36] Speaker 3: not your fault.
[42:37] Speaker 2: No, I know.
[42:38] Speaker 1: Like, it's hard.
[42:38] Speaker 3: It was more what I wanted to bring to the
[42:40] Speaker 3: pod was this, like, this very generous, like, intel from
[42:44] Speaker 3: this woman who's on the fucking front lines dealing with
[42:47] Speaker 3: calls like mine every day saying these things. Because the
[42:50] Speaker 3: conversations I'm having with my friends right now, like across every,
[42:55] Speaker 3: I was at a dinner party a couple of weeks
[42:56] Speaker 3: ago and you know, it was the most unbelievable range
[43:00] Speaker 3: of professions, literally tradies, people who work in finance, teachers, media,
[43:05] Speaker 3: people in media, you know, me, whatever this job is,
[43:07] Speaker 3: you know, like everyone across all these different industries, no
[43:10] Speaker 3: one was like, yeah, having a great.
[43:12] Speaker 1: Time, you know, just plodding along.
[43:13] Speaker 3: Every single person was like, well, who knows? You know,
[43:18] Speaker 3: like everyone's like throwing their hands up. Like every industry
[43:21] Speaker 3: is touched by the current state of the world. Everyone's
[43:25] Speaker 3: personal situations have changed so dramatically in the last few years.
[43:29] Speaker 1: People who bought houses a few years.
[43:30] Speaker 3: Ago, you know, in a market that in a world
[43:33] Speaker 3: that is completely different to what it is now with
[43:35] Speaker 3: all these rate rises and all this uncertainty and No
[43:39] Speaker 3: job security.
[43:40] Speaker 1: Yeah. Like I've got one friend who's like, I am
[43:42] Speaker 1: just surrounded by redundancies.
[43:44] Speaker 3: It's like I walk across and I'm waiting to step
[43:47] Speaker 3: on my landmine because next to me, someone's blown up.
[43:50] Speaker 1: Someone's blown up.
[43:51] Speaker 3: And she's like, I'm down to me and one other
[43:53] Speaker 3: person that used to be a team of 12. And
[43:55] Speaker 3: I'm just like, when's it my turn? But do I
[43:57] Speaker 3: look around? Because having a job right now is everything.
[44:01] Speaker 1: Like, anyway. It's brutal out there. All this to say,
[44:04] Speaker 1: I just think it's worth acknowledging.
[44:05] Speaker 3: Like, I feel like millennials, we've made so many decisions
[44:08] Speaker 3: in our lives based on how we thought adult life
[44:12] Speaker 3: should go. And we sort of just followed what our
[44:13] Speaker 3: parents did, right? And we thought, well, if you do X, Y, Z,
[44:16] Speaker 3: you build to this. you know, the Gen Z, they're
[44:19] Speaker 3: not even playing by that rule book.
[44:20] Speaker 1: They're doing whole other things.
[44:22] Speaker 3: But we thought we had a map, a roadmap, and
[44:25] Speaker 3: things have changed so dramatically.
[44:27] Speaker 1: It feels like overnight. And I feel like it's just
[44:30] Speaker 1: worth acknowledging that everyone.
[44:32] Speaker 3: Out there, no matter what your circumstance, feels like they're
[44:35] Speaker 3: just gasping for air all the time.
[44:37] Speaker 1: Definitely. I mean, I can attest to that.
[44:40] Speaker 2: Based on you know different crew of social friends it's
[44:42] Speaker 2: the same thing everyone is in survival mode not one
[44:45] Speaker 2: person is I mean thriving is not even in the
[44:49] Speaker 2: lexicon thriving's not even on the menu like just like
[44:52] Speaker 2: managing would be nice oh I'm actually like comfortable yeah
[44:55] Speaker 2: wouldn't that be lovely that's the goal but no one
[44:58] Speaker 2: even just feels comfortable everyone is stressed And everyone's trying
[45:02] Speaker 2: to make change, but in a shape of the life
[45:05] Speaker 2: where there doesn't seem to be much change that you're
[45:07] Speaker 2: able to make.
[45:08] Speaker 3: Like, what can you do? You can't pay less mortgage.
[45:11] Speaker 3: You can go get another job, I guess. Like, did
[45:13] Speaker 3: the kids have to stop doing activities? What are we
[45:16] Speaker 3: thinking for school?
[45:17] Speaker 1: Groceries.
[45:18] Speaker 3: Everyone I know has cut back all those things like subscriptions, groceries,
[45:21] Speaker 3: like all those little superfluous things.
[45:23] Speaker 1: Dinner's out. I mean, ha ha ha.
[45:25] Speaker 3: Like, It's got to be such a special occasion. Everyone's
[45:29] Speaker 3: done that. They've done the audit and people are still
[45:32] Speaker 3: in this like, shit, where do I turn?
[45:34] Speaker 1: What do we do?
[45:35] Speaker 3: And it just feels like we have to all hang
[45:36] Speaker 3: on and white knuckle until something gives.
[45:39] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's the general feeling.
[45:41] Speaker 2: I mean, I just worry about people's mental health, like
[45:44] Speaker 2: more than anything, just for our generation, because again, sandwich
[45:49] Speaker 2: generation as well. On top of that, younger kids, aging parents,
[45:52] Speaker 2: we're supposed to be in our peak career. Everyone says
[45:55] Speaker 2: in your forties is when you put the pedal to
[45:57] Speaker 2: the metal and.
[45:58] Speaker 1: You go really hard for the Like it is so layered.
[46:03] Speaker 1: And on top of that, I mean, this was going
[46:05] Speaker 1: to be my not spawn.
[46:06] Speaker 2: I was listening to a podcast with Zoe Foster Blake
[46:08] Speaker 2: on the imperfects. That's my not spawn guys for today.
[46:12] Speaker 2: But something that was talked about was also the fact
[46:15] Speaker 2: that women are having kids later and How because we're
[46:19] Speaker 2: all having our kids well into our 30s now, we
[46:22] Speaker 2: are going from postpartum hormonal enormous dump straight into Perry.
[46:28] Speaker 1: And there's no gaps in between.
[46:30] Speaker 2: And what goes on from a brain chemistry perspective coupled
[46:33] Speaker 2: with all your hormones, what is going on with all
[46:35] Speaker 2: of the physical changes and the hormonal changes are so
[46:39] Speaker 2: enormous that there was something like a man would have
[46:43] Speaker 2: to live 190 years, I hope I've got this right,
[46:47] Speaker 2: in order to experience the hormonal shifts that women experience
[46:51] Speaker 2: in one month. That's how even keeled they are from
[46:54] Speaker 2: a hormonal POV.
[46:56] Speaker 1: What's the excuse then?
[47:00] Speaker 2: Singular mind focus remember they can't multitask like us and
[47:03] Speaker 2: you know it's so real like when you say these
[47:07] Speaker 2: reels on instagram of women who are like you know
[47:10] Speaker 2: this is me when i'm deep in depression and highly
[47:13] Speaker 2: anxious and they're still smiling and going about their day
[47:16] Speaker 2: because we still show up and the wheels keep turning
[47:19] Speaker 2: it's fucked yeah but we are carrying the most the
[47:22] Speaker 2: lion's share of everything also our.
[47:24] Speaker 3: Children go into adolescence as we're going into peri like
[47:28] Speaker 3: what a fucking combo.
[47:29] Speaker 2: Yeah brutal real brutal it's like the hormones in the
[47:34] Speaker 2: household yeah it's a lot but i just think you
[47:37] Speaker 2: know that's why we all feel overwhelmed and like we're
[47:40] Speaker 2: not coping and that we're certainly not thriving and that
[47:43] Speaker 2: we're surviving it's like everything is coming the walls are
[47:46] Speaker 2: closing in and it's hitting us all at once and
[47:48] Speaker 2: of course we've got to like enjoy it all these
[47:51] Speaker 2: fleeting years like there's But I think sometimes it helps
[47:55] Speaker 2: to go, it's not just me or it's not just us.
[47:57] Speaker 1: Always.
[47:58] Speaker 3: I know that, you know, and especially when it comes
[48:01] Speaker 3: to things like money, taxes, mortgages, whatever, people get like, oh,
[48:04] Speaker 3: you can't talk about it or it's got to keep
[48:06] Speaker 3: it private or whatever, because who knows, maybe it's a
[48:08] Speaker 3: privileged conversation or maybe there's shame involved or like. where
[48:12] Speaker 3: everyone's situation is so different. But I think it helps
[48:14] Speaker 3: us as a community if we all go, it's.
[48:17] Speaker 1: Really fucking hard. We are drowning. We are spending more
[48:20] Speaker 1: than we're earning.
[48:21] Speaker 3: We are not, you know, like I think that helps
[48:24] Speaker 3: everyone go, okay, fuck, I'm not like, I.
[48:26] Speaker 1: Didn't miss a class. You know what I mean? I
[48:28] Speaker 1: didn't do something wrong. I haven't fucked this up.
[48:30] Speaker 3: Like I'm just doing what everyone else at my stage
[48:32] Speaker 3: of life is doing and I'm doing my best and
[48:35] Speaker 3: we'll get through it somehow. But I think that's helpful
[48:38] Speaker 3: because I think there's so many, so many of us
[48:41] Speaker 3: look and go, what have I done wrong?
[48:42] Speaker 1: What did I miss? You know, what like memo did
[48:45] Speaker 1: I not get that everybody else got on how to
[48:47] Speaker 1: be an adult? You know, I think it's helpful.
[48:50] Speaker 3: And I personally found her saying that to me, but
[48:53] Speaker 3: also having friends say, oh.
[48:55] Speaker 1: No, we are fucked right now. Like we are fucked.
[48:57] Speaker 1: I'm really worried about us. Like, I don't know how
[48:59] Speaker 1: we're doing Christmas.
[49:00] Speaker 3: You know, I find that relatable and it means we
[49:03] Speaker 3: can all like, okay, cool.
[49:04] Speaker 1: Let's not add any pressures.
[49:06] Speaker 3: Let's just be there for each other and do lo-fi
[49:09] Speaker 3: picnics and free stuff and not have to do all
[49:12] Speaker 3: this lavish stuff so that we can all be like, yeah, great.
[49:15] Speaker 3: You know, that's much easier for me because we still
[49:17] Speaker 3: need joy in our lives. And I don't mean joy
[49:19] Speaker 3: from the ATO. I mean, actual, the feeling of joy.
[49:22] Speaker 3: We need friendships.
[49:23] Speaker 1: We need community.
[49:23] Speaker 3: We need all those things because that's what's going to
[49:25] Speaker 3: help us get through this period.
[49:28] Speaker 2: And we are incredibly lucky to live somewhere like Australia
[49:31] Speaker 2: where there are a lot of Like the fact that
[49:33] Speaker 2: we have free beaches, like it wasn't until I went
[49:37] Speaker 2: to freaking Costa Rica where I had to pay $ 20
[49:40] Speaker 2: admission to go to the beach because they were all
[49:43] Speaker 2: privately owned. It was wild to me. It gave me
[49:46] Speaker 2: a newfound appreciation for how we have free access to
[49:50] Speaker 2: these things in Australia, like parks and playgrounds. That's why
[49:52] Speaker 2: we pay our fucking taxes, guys.
[49:54] Speaker 1: So use them. You know, that's why.
[49:56] Speaker 3: And you know, what i would have really have loved
[49:57] Speaker 3: to learn that in school too is like what we
[49:59] Speaker 3: do with our taxes as a society because it does
[50:01] Speaker 3: again it really helps me to go like yes we
[50:04] Speaker 3: pay this tax but this is what we get for
[50:06] Speaker 3: it you know these beautiful schools and these great hospitals
[50:09] Speaker 3: and these amazing roads and you know beautiful kept beaches
[50:13] Speaker 3: and public spaces and green spaces and all that stuff
[50:15] Speaker 3: yeah not to get toxically grateful but you know.
[50:17] Speaker 1: Well, what's the alternative? I'm sorry.
[50:20] Speaker 2: If we don't find gratitude amongst it all, what is
[50:23] Speaker 2: the alternative? Just be bitter about it. That feels worse.
[50:26] Speaker 2: There's always something to be grateful for.
[50:28] Speaker 1: Of course. Well, Rebsi, I did my Not Spun, which
[50:30] Speaker 1: was Zoe Foster-Blake on the Imperfects episode about perimenopause. Honestly,
[50:34] Speaker 1: can't recommend it enough.
[50:35] Speaker 2: I was nodding along like one of those things you
[50:38] Speaker 2: put on top of a car, Hawaiian dancer, that I
[50:41] Speaker 2: thought my head was going to fall off.
[50:42] Speaker 1: Lots of light bulb moments. But Rebsi, hit me with
[50:44] Speaker 1: your Not Spun. Mine's a pet product so stay with me.
[50:48] Speaker 3: I'll be quick if you don't have a pet. It's
[50:50] Speaker 3: a dog bowl and you can get it on Amazon.
[50:52] Speaker 3: It's called Flozy and it's got a filter in it.
[50:55] Speaker 3: Basically my dog just stopped drinking water and I was like,
[50:57] Speaker 3: what's up? And then apparently like the water gets stale
[51:01] Speaker 3: or they worry about like they sniff out, you know,
[51:03] Speaker 3: if the water's not fresh. That's why you always have
[51:05] Speaker 3: to replenish your dog's water. Anyway, this thing kind of
[51:08] Speaker 3: does it for you.
[51:08] Speaker 1: You fill it up.
[51:09] Speaker 3: It's seven litres and then there's a filter and like
[51:12] Speaker 3: a sensor that that when they get close to it,
[51:14] Speaker 3: it starts flowing so.
[51:15] Speaker 1: They have fresh water. Oh, that's cool.
[51:17] Speaker 3: And it honestly takes a whole job out of your day.
[51:20] Speaker 1: And Buster's hydrated. And Buster's lapping it up. Oh, thank goodness.
[51:25] Speaker 1: Get it?
[51:25] Speaker 2: Thanks.
[51:26] Speaker 1: That's mine. I'll put a link in the show notes.
[51:28] Speaker 1: But the Flozy. Is that what it's called, Flozy? Flozy,
[51:30] Speaker 1: dog and cat bowl. Water fountain.
[51:32] Speaker 2: Wow. There's a whole world of pet products that I'm
[51:35] Speaker 2: just not privy to. And I imagine there'd be so
[51:36] Speaker 2: many great inventions.
[51:38] Speaker 1: There are.
[51:38] Speaker 3: Look, my dog doesn't like things like, like he doesn't
[51:42] Speaker 3: like dog beds. He won't wear dog clothes. He doesn't
[51:45] Speaker 3: particularly like toys. He just, he's a tennis ball water guy,
[51:49] Speaker 3: you know, and that's great. I don't have to buy
[51:51] Speaker 3: a bunch of stuff, but yes, it's a whole industry,
[51:54] Speaker 3: a thriving one.
[51:55] Speaker 2: I've got friends who have cats who have this whole
[51:58] Speaker 2: tower the scratch tower no it's like a cat feeding
[52:01] Speaker 2: machine and it will feed them for up to seven
[52:05] Speaker 2: days if you go away or something and it just
[52:07] Speaker 2: deposits oh yeah because you can leave cats at home
[52:09] Speaker 2: I think so yeah because they don't like us who's
[52:11] Speaker 2: cleaning the kitty litter you know like that's a job
[52:14] Speaker 2: anyway there'll be a robot for that one day we
[52:16] Speaker 2: don't need to worry about it for sure Well, we
[52:17] Speaker 2: love you DLs. Thanks for hanging out with us today.
[52:20] Speaker 1: Felt like an emotionally charged episode went here, there and everywhere.
[52:23] Speaker 1: Lots going on in the world. We hope you're okay. Yeah, seriously.
[52:27] Speaker 1: We have an episode.
[52:28] Speaker 3: We actually, we got into more generational stuff. Gems, new
[52:31] Speaker 3: au pair gave us some big insights into the Gen Zers.
[52:34] Speaker 3: And I had my own insights from my days when
[52:36] Speaker 3: I was hanging with the Gen Zers, if you know
[52:37] Speaker 3: what I'm talking about. And just some like weird little
[52:39] Speaker 3: cultural things that are hilarious to millennials. And we're just
[52:42] Speaker 3: wondering when we got so old, here's a little taste.
[52:44] Speaker 1: Speaking of the youth.
[52:45] Speaker 2: Yeah. I was chatting to my lovely au pair who
[52:49] Speaker 2: is 22 years old. She said to me, and I quote,
[52:53] Speaker 2: I have been more peer pressured to join a run
[52:56] Speaker 2: club than to do drugs and drink alcohol. And it just,
[53:01] Speaker 2: it hasn't left me.
[53:01] Speaker 1: I believe it. She meant it.
[53:05] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
[53:06] Speaker 1: She absolutely meant it. And I was shooketh. Otherwise, we'll
[53:10] Speaker 1: be back in your ears on Friday with the Bestie Hotline. Bye-bye. Bye.

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