# Reasonable Doubt w/ Bradley Whitford

An episode of [That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1540370040), 24 Mar 2026, 2 h 27 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/cf7e6913-a01e-4666-a095-b24c0047c637/bb587cb1-9619-405d-aeaf-b41600fc99f8/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=c3a2c876-20bf-449b-8d54-b24c0047c64d

This week, Liza and Kara recap the episode “Reasonable Doubt” (Season 15, Episode 22) and discuss the predatory history of the infamous film director Woody Allen. Plus, they have a wonderful conversation with the magnificent Bradley Whitford. SOURCES: Wikipedia - Woody Allen sexual abuse allegation Vanity Fair 1 Vanity Fair 2 Vanity Fair 3 The New York Times 1 The New York Times 2 mosesfarrow.blogspot.com Vulture Los Angeles Times Wikipedia - Roman Polanski WHAT WOULD SISTER PEG DO: My Father, Woody Allen, and the Danger of Questions Unasked Next week’s episode will be “Great Expectations" (Season 18, Episode 11). Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3yb7hqu See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
[0:04] Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
[0:07] Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
[0:10] Speaker 3: Done done.
[0:28] Speaker 1: Yay, that's messed up an SVU podcast. I am Liza
[0:31] Speaker 1: Tragger and I'm Kara Klank and by now hopefully you
[0:35] Speaker 1: know what's going on here. It's SVU, it's true crime,
[0:39] Speaker 1: it's interviews with celebs, to be honest, and today's a
[0:43] Speaker 1: really good one. But first, wow, I have I can't
[0:47] Speaker 1: see Okay, tell me, okay, okay, So I feel like
[0:51] Speaker 1: you have a more exciting life than me. You always
[0:53] Speaker 1: have fun stories, and I finally feel like it's my
[0:55] Speaker 1: moment in the sun. Okay, have fun stories, have fun
[0:58] Speaker 1: story No, I know, I know, I know, but okay.
[1:01] Speaker 1: So I mentioned this on the pod a few weeks
[1:03] Speaker 1: ago that I was going to see Ama Dais at
[1:06] Speaker 1: the Pasadena Playhouse starring Jefferson Mace, friend of the Pod
[1:10] Speaker 1: aka doctor Carl Rudnick.
[1:12] Speaker 4: Okay, so the week or so before, I'm.
[1:16] Speaker 1: Like, you know what, I'm just gonna like see if
[1:18] Speaker 1: he wants to, like, say hi after the show, right,
[1:21] Speaker 1: so I email his publicists and I'm just like, hey,
[1:24] Speaker 1: I interviewed your client a year ago on my podcast.
[1:29] Speaker 1: I'm going I already have tickets. I'm not asking for
[1:30] Speaker 1: anything free. I was like, I would love to pop
[1:32] Speaker 1: in and say hi after the show. She was like,
[1:34] Speaker 1: he would love to see you. I was like, I
[1:36] Speaker 1: was gagged.
[1:37] Speaker 4: Okay.
[1:37] Speaker 2: I also did see the photo and I would like
[1:39] Speaker 2: to say, Jared going gray, I think is a great look.
[1:43] Speaker 1: Thank you. Do you feel that way or are you
[1:45] Speaker 1: not into it? Yeah? Because you know what, he was
[1:46] Speaker 1: already so blonde that it's so it's so gradual, like
[1:51] Speaker 1: it's kind of.
[1:51] Speaker 2: Like because I haven't seen him in a long time.
[1:53] Speaker 2: And I was, yeah, I was like, this is a
[1:55] Speaker 2: good look.
[1:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's going good for it because
[1:58] Speaker 1: he kind of still has a baby case.
[2:00] Speaker 2: I just now that I mentioned your husband, I obviously
[2:01] Speaker 2: think of Kumel the new star of White Lotus. I mean,
[2:04] Speaker 2: I mean and then in my hat him like that's
[2:06] Speaker 2: the biggest deal ever and that I remember he's like Marvel,
[2:08] Speaker 2: like he is famous, but like I just can't even Amerine.
[2:11] Speaker 1: I know, but I texted his wife yesterday, who's like
[2:13] Speaker 1: my good friend, and I was like, I'm I was like,
[2:16] Speaker 1: I'm simultaneously feel betrayed that you didn't tell me, but
[2:19] Speaker 1: also know fully well that you could never have told me. Yeah,
[2:22] Speaker 1: thank you for realizing that, because I was like, that's
[2:25] Speaker 1: so huge. But I texted him congrats, and I think
[2:28] Speaker 1: that he's over the moon, like so excited. And France,
[2:33] Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, they're gonna be near Kahn, They're gonna
[2:37] Speaker 1: being con They're.
[2:37] Speaker 2: Gonna have this time with the Times. It's gonna be amazing.
[2:39] Speaker 2: All right, get back. Okay, so you're at the Pasadena Playhouse.
[2:42] Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm at the Pasadena Playhouse and we see
[2:46] Speaker 1: the show, and I'm gonna I honestly, maybe the best
[2:48] Speaker 1: play I've ever seen in my entire life, Like I
[2:50] Speaker 1: have never seen amadeis the movie I have never seen.
[2:54] Speaker 1: I don't I've never watched the play. Like it was
[2:58] Speaker 1: so good. The stage picture, like the last thing I
[3:01] Speaker 1: saw there was Kate with You, right, Like so Kate
[3:03] Speaker 1: Berlance One Woman Show awesome, but like pretty much a
[3:06] Speaker 1: black stage with like a projection up during certain points.
[3:09] Speaker 1: This was like scrims and projections in the back and
[3:13] Speaker 1: like this awesome two floor set where like people keep
[3:17] Speaker 1: appearing almost like ghosts at the top. Like it was
[3:20] Speaker 1: like really fantastic. And Jefferson Mays is the star of
[3:24] Speaker 1: the damn show. It's called Amadaeus because it's it is
[3:27] Speaker 1: about Mozart, but he plays Salieri and like if you
[3:31] Speaker 1: don't know the show, it's basically like it's basically like
[3:36] Speaker 1: they're both composers, and Saliary realizes that.
[3:39] Speaker 4: The photos he looks incredible. This wig.
[3:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, he realizes that Mozart is like a god given
[3:46] Speaker 1: talent like and so he basically makes it his mission
[3:48] Speaker 1: to like ruin him so that he can be It's
[3:51] Speaker 1: like but he but he acts like his friend. So
[3:53] Speaker 1: it's like a tale of gaslighting and somebody like trying
[3:56] Speaker 1: to take you down, but acting like your friend.
[3:59] Speaker 4: It's like so good, it looks so cool.
[4:02] Speaker 1: Wow, he has like the most he has so many lines,
[4:07] Speaker 1: Like I mean, it's like he's the star of the
[4:09] Speaker 1: fucking show. It's nuts, and he does an amazing job.
[4:12] Speaker 1: There's monologues where he's screaming. He has to go from
[4:14] Speaker 1: young salary to old dying salary and it's like a
[4:18] Speaker 1: totally different posture and voice and everything, like he's a master,
[4:22] Speaker 1: like he was so good, so you know, and I
[4:25] Speaker 1: saw it the second to last day, like it closed
[4:27] Speaker 1: the next day, so it was a full house. So
[4:29] Speaker 1: we go, we go backstage. We're waiting. You've seen, You've
[4:32] Speaker 1: been in the room. We're sitting on like these little
[4:34] Speaker 1: couches kind of like waiting because it's this big green
[4:36] Speaker 1: room where everyone has like a little dressing room off
[4:39] Speaker 1: to the side. So we're just like waiting for him
[4:41] Speaker 1: to come out, okay, And I'm seeing other members of
[4:43] Speaker 1: the cast and I'm like, that was amazing, you were
[4:45] Speaker 1: so good. Blah blah blah. There's opera in it, like
[4:47] Speaker 1: some of the actresses and actors like sing opera. It
[4:49] Speaker 1: was crazy. And then in the doorway comes this big
[4:54] Speaker 1: guy and some of the cast members go, we saw
[4:58] Speaker 1: you from the stage. Oh my god. And I look
[5:01] Speaker 1: to the side and I go, I go, oh, that
[5:04] Speaker 1: that looks like Christopher Maloney, and like, kind of from
[5:07] Speaker 1: the side, are you kidding me? No?
[5:09] Speaker 4: I go, kind of from the side, that guy looks
[5:11] Speaker 4: like Christopher Maloney.
[5:12] Speaker 1: And then Jefferson Mays comes out of his room and
[5:15] Speaker 1: he's like in a rob he's just obviously taking all
[5:16] Speaker 1: his makeup off, and he goes and he shakes the
[5:19] Speaker 1: man's hand. I'm my Maloney lighter in my hand. Yeah.
[5:24] Speaker 1: He goes and shakes the man's hand, and in my mind,
[5:26] Speaker 1: I'm going, well, it's not Christopher Malone, because Jefferson Mays
[5:28] Speaker 1: would know Christopher Maloney. Then he steps into the dress
[5:33] Speaker 1: into the green room and it is Christopher Maloney, and
[5:36] Speaker 1: my entire heart like sinks into my stomach.
[5:39] Speaker 4: There's like fifteen people in the green room.
[5:42] Speaker 2: You think Jefferson's like putting this together like in his
[5:45] Speaker 2: head like this is no, no, not a.
[5:47] Speaker 1: He's not so because he hasn't even seen us yet.
[5:50] Speaker 1: He hasn't even seen me in Jared yet. He's like
[5:52] Speaker 1: zipped out of his dressing room and gone and seen
[5:54] Speaker 1: straight to obviously gone straight to Maloney. And so he is,
[5:58] Speaker 1: but he buzzes around, he goes somewhere else because Maloney
[6:01] Speaker 1: knows one of the actors in the play. Okay, So
[6:03] Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, oh my god. Jared is
[6:05] Speaker 1: sitting there with me, and he goes, how can I
[6:07] Speaker 1: support you? What if you want to do? And I'm
[6:08] Speaker 1: like I'm like, I'm like paralyzed, like I don't know
[6:12] Speaker 1: what to do. I'm usually like pretty cool around celebs,
[6:14] Speaker 1: and I just was like, I don't even know like
[6:17] Speaker 1: how I speak to him, because I know he kind
[6:19] Speaker 1: of it, but he's in a good mood. He's like
[6:20] Speaker 1: telling everybody how great they did whatever, and I'm like, okay.
[6:24] Speaker 1: So then he goes and he's deeper into the green
[6:26] Speaker 1: room taking pictures with some of the cast members, and
[6:29] Speaker 1: then Jefferson comes up to us, and I'm like, oh
[6:31] Speaker 1: my god. Hi. It's like, yeah, you know Kara from
[6:33] Speaker 1: the podcast.
[6:34] Speaker 4: And he goes, of course, thank you so much for
[6:35] Speaker 4: coming back.
[6:37] Speaker 1: Oh my god. And I was like, you were so amazing,
[6:39] Speaker 1: and I'm like talking about how how could he possibly like
[6:42] Speaker 1: keep his voice every night a day after day he goes,
[6:44] Speaker 1: it just comes back. I was like, oh my god,
[6:46] Speaker 1: it's because he screams monologues like it's crazy. But anyway,
[6:50] Speaker 1: the whole time I'm like talking to Jefferson, I'm also
[6:52] Speaker 1: like at the back of my mind, like I have
[6:53] Speaker 1: one eye wandering like where's Christopher Maloney And so I go,
[6:58] Speaker 1: I go, I can't believe Christopher Lone he's here, Jefferson
[7:01] Speaker 1: and he goes, oh, you gotta get him, and I go,
[7:03] Speaker 1: I go, I got, I know, I gotta go say hi,
[7:05] Speaker 1: And he was like, yeah, yeah yeah.
[7:07] Speaker 4: So he and I chat for a little bit.
[7:09] Speaker 2: He's so fun, he said, yeah, rod Nick's later right,
[7:12] Speaker 2: like they never worked together.
[7:14] Speaker 1: That's what I realized after. That's when I realized after
[7:16] Speaker 1: the reason he was introducing himself is because Rudnick is
[7:19] Speaker 1: seasoned like fourteen fifteen, right, so they never they never
[7:22] Speaker 1: probably yeah, so, but in my mind I just wasn't
[7:25] Speaker 1: you know, I wasn't thinking seasons right at the no.
[7:27] Speaker 1: I know, I know, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
[7:30] Speaker 1: The same thing came to me after I go. I
[7:32] Speaker 1: said to Jared, I go, that's why they don't know
[7:34] Speaker 1: each other different later seasons. And Jared goes, okay, like
[7:37] Speaker 1: he has no idea what's going on. So I'm like, fuck, okay.
[7:40] Speaker 1: So and Jefferson said, he goes, I had the best
[7:43] Speaker 1: time with you ladies. He was like talking about how
[7:45] Speaker 1: much he loved being on the podcast, and he was like,
[7:48] Speaker 1: you guys indulging me with my little day drinking. And
[7:50] Speaker 1: I was like, you were just having a glassy, little
[7:52] Speaker 1: glass of white wine. It was no big deal. And
[7:55] Speaker 1: so he was and March, that's so funny. It was
[8:00] Speaker 1: a little martini glass, okay, And we'd we asked him,
[8:02] Speaker 1: we were like, are is that a martini? He's like,
[8:04] Speaker 1: it's a white wine. But he was so so sweet,
[8:09] Speaker 1: and he said that there's talk of the show moving
[8:12] Speaker 1: possibly to New York and if it goes there, you
[8:14] Speaker 1: gotta go like so good. So then he has to
[8:17] Speaker 1: go obviously, like he's got other people to see and
[8:19] Speaker 1: shit to do. And I'm like, okay. So Maloney has
[8:22] Speaker 1: gone to the stage with his friend, so I follow.
[8:26] Speaker 1: I go up to the stage and he's gone, and
[8:30] Speaker 1: I go. I go to the friend. I go, did
[8:34] Speaker 1: Christopher Maloney leave?
[8:35] Speaker 4: And he goes yeah.
[8:36] Speaker 1: I go. I go, oh no, I go, I have
[8:39] Speaker 1: the Number one is for You podcast. He goes, oh
[8:43] Speaker 1: my god, you want me to text him? And I go,
[8:45] Speaker 1: you guys are friends. He goes, yeah, he was here
[8:46] Speaker 1: to see me. And I go, oh no, that's okay,
[8:50] Speaker 1: Like you're not gonna text and go there's a girl
[8:51] Speaker 1: with a podcast. Then come back like you know, like
[8:54] Speaker 1: that's not happening. But it was like I couldn't like
[8:57] Speaker 1: be rude to Jefferson and like down maloney and it
[9:01] Speaker 1: was so quick. But I'll tell you he looked great.
[9:04] Speaker 1: The butt was he was standing in front of me.
[9:06] Speaker 1: I saw his butt before I saw his full face
[9:08] Speaker 1: and was like, it's him, Like that's him and uh,
[9:11] Speaker 1: really filling out those genes. And he was really nice
[9:14] Speaker 1: and complimentary to the whole cast. And you know I
[9:19] Speaker 1: heard him talk about where he lives in La. It's
[9:21] Speaker 1: not impossible that I could run into him again.
[9:24] Speaker 4: No, we will run into him again. He will do
[9:26] Speaker 4: the pod, We will see him.
[9:27] Speaker 2: Yes, you were in close proximity.
[9:30] Speaker 1: Yeah, who was he with somebody? At first I thought
[9:34] Speaker 1: he was, but they were two other friends of the
[9:36] Speaker 1: same actor, so he was alone. Got it wow?
[9:39] Speaker 4: And he was off into the night.
[9:40] Speaker 1: And then I, you know, I got out onto those
[9:42] Speaker 1: streets after I left and was like scanning everywhere seeing
[9:45] Speaker 1: if he was like getting into a black car.
[9:46] Speaker 2: But I missed opportunity. He didn't miss it. That was
[9:50] Speaker 2: what was supposed to happen. It's like, yeah, you know.
[9:52] Speaker 1: He was like I could have touched him. He was
[9:54] Speaker 1: so close. It was crazy, Like did he look but
[9:57] Speaker 1: I felt that feeling? Yeah, he was. He looked really
[9:59] Speaker 1: hot and I because he was like just very like
[10:02] Speaker 1: cash and I just have not had that feeling of
[10:06] Speaker 1: like oh my god, like what do I do? What
[10:08] Speaker 1: do I say? How like what do I have to
[10:09] Speaker 1: approach this like in a long time. So nice to
[10:12] Speaker 1: know I still I can still feel you know. That
[10:14] Speaker 1: was good.
[10:14] Speaker 4: Now my heart is beating so fast right now.
[10:17] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but I was like it was so crazy.
[10:20] Speaker 1: I go wow in profile, that guy really looks like
[10:21] Speaker 1: Christopher Maloney. And then I was like, but it's how
[10:24] Speaker 1: big is the I guess I didn't anticipate me like
[10:26] Speaker 1: seeing a big guy and going, oh my god, it's Maloney.
[10:29] Speaker 4: Like it was the baldness too.
[10:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, like he was just baldi and like I just
[10:35] Speaker 1: saw him in the doorway, you know, like people were
[10:37] Speaker 1: kind of in front and act the actresses were like.
[10:38] Speaker 4: We saw you from the stage. I was like, this
[10:40] Speaker 4: must be somebody.
[10:41] Speaker 2: I mean, this is kind of like when people are
[10:43] Speaker 2: like are you going to SNL like for Connor Store
[10:45] Speaker 2: or whatever? I go no, because I don't want to
[10:47] Speaker 2: behave Like sometimes it's like you can't be desperate, you
[10:49] Speaker 2: know what I mean, like your exact situations. Everyone wants
[10:53] Speaker 2: a thing, and sometimes that feeling is just too much
[10:56] Speaker 2: to handle and you have to stay grounded, and it's
[10:58] Speaker 2: like you can't be a free and sometimes the freaks
[11:01] Speaker 2: are rewarded.
[11:02] Speaker 4: I'm sure, but like I don't know totally.
[11:05] Speaker 1: And I was like, I mean, in my mind, I
[11:06] Speaker 1: was like gonna be like, I'm so sorry to bother you.
[11:09] Speaker 1: I just have to tell you because like I mean,
[11:11] Speaker 1: I don't know if he even knows about our podcast,
[11:14] Speaker 1: but I.
[11:15] Speaker 4: You know, I had I had a plan in my
[11:18] Speaker 4: mind to win.
[11:18] Speaker 2: It's gonna be one of those where when he finally
[11:20] Speaker 2: does it, we'll be like, well, you've said no forever
[11:23] Speaker 2: and he goes what I would never have said no,
[11:25] Speaker 2: and it's like, yeah.
[11:27] Speaker 1: He said no his people. Yeah, so yeah that's my
[11:33] Speaker 1: story and what a night. But damn and yeah, and
[11:37] Speaker 1: I like, yeah, I posted a story. I have a
[11:40] Speaker 1: maybe I'll put it on Maine or something. I have
[11:42] Speaker 1: a great I have a great pick of me, just
[11:43] Speaker 1: me and rod Nick alone. Jared's not the best photographer,
[11:46] Speaker 1: but you know we got a cute little pick. Wow. Okay,
[11:53] Speaker 1: I do have to I do have a confession to
[11:55] Speaker 1: make to you guys. And I I know, I like
[11:59] Speaker 1: I actually ended up not really doing Saint Patrick's Day yesterday.
[12:02] Speaker 1: So I apologize for moving the four, okay, I cause
[12:05] Speaker 1: I saw on your stories that you had an early
[12:07] Speaker 1: one and that's really fun.
[12:09] Speaker 2: I did because Julia was leaving town and I made
[12:12] Speaker 2: her feel so guilty and bad that she would leave me.
[12:15] Speaker 2: And she was also like, these are like we don't
[12:17] Speaker 2: really even do this holiday, Like why are you acting
[12:18] Speaker 2: like this?
[12:19] Speaker 1: And then I had receipts.
[12:20] Speaker 2: I go, oh, like when Lane Maine corn beef and
[12:22] Speaker 2: you did, I go, how dare you say we don't
[12:24] Speaker 2: do this holiday?
[12:26] Speaker 4: So she felt so bad that she went to soul
[12:28] Speaker 4: cycle with me.
[12:29] Speaker 2: We went to cornerbe stre It was like also a
[12:31] Speaker 2: gorgeous day in New York City. Yeah, it was like
[12:34] Speaker 2: in the sixties but or maybe fifties. But we sat
[12:37] Speaker 2: outside and then we went to ear in our favorite
[12:39] Speaker 2: Irish place. And then I had yeah, oh my god,
[12:42] Speaker 2: this is the New York Friday. Seven o'clock drinks at
[12:44] Speaker 2: a steakhouse, eight o'clock Korean barbecue, ten o'clock karaoke, twelve
[12:49] Speaker 2: forty five a spot, two am, a spot like I
[12:53] Speaker 2: was performing fully black Down. Oh yeah, I got a
[12:55] Speaker 2: text from the friend group I left from karaoke being
[12:57] Speaker 2: at one forty five, going where are you at?
[12:59] Speaker 4: And I said, I'm still waiting to go up.
[13:02] Speaker 1: Oh my god.
[13:04] Speaker 2: So I like party and you know, and this is
[13:06] Speaker 2: the thing, like I'm at soul Cycle with high schoolers
[13:08] Speaker 2: and I'm like, I am thirty eight.
[13:10] Speaker 4: I started drinking at seven o'clock.
[13:13] Speaker 2: I missed, I mixed four liquors and I'm fucking here
[13:16] Speaker 2: spinning bitch. I was just like, I felt really good
[13:18] Speaker 2: about myself.
[13:19] Speaker 1: But then Julie and.
[13:21] Speaker 2: I went straight to Saint Patti's, so I was like
[13:23] Speaker 2: drunk and then I'd arrest before my next one am spot.
[13:26] Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Oh my god.
[13:29] Speaker 2: No, But I kept wanting to party and everyone was like, well,
[13:32] Speaker 2: I have a job, Like what do you mean? Like nothing,
[13:35] Speaker 2: like nothing was clicking, and I was like, am I
[13:37] Speaker 2: just gonna get blacked out alone in the neighborhood. And
[13:40] Speaker 2: then I went to get a coffee at ten am
[13:42] Speaker 2: and I go, you know, I thought I was going
[13:43] Speaker 2: to party today and the girl goes, I mean, it's
[13:46] Speaker 2: still pretty early.
[13:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, things could turn around, girl made by lunch. But
[13:57] Speaker 1: this is what I did. So basically, I have I
[13:59] Speaker 1: do have a lot it's not gonna be the maloney.
[14:01] Speaker 1: I do have a list.
[14:02] Speaker 2: It all is kind of connected also, Casey, it's so funny.
[14:05] Speaker 2: So my hairdresser, Lacey's been doing my hair in color
[14:08] Speaker 2: and cut for like a decade. I would say over
[14:10] Speaker 2: a decade, and she said the same thing you did.
[14:12] Speaker 2: She goes, Lisa, I've never heard you say you read
[14:13] Speaker 2: a book. And I'm really proud of you.
[14:15] Speaker 1: Right now people are saying that, like the streets are
[14:20] Speaker 1: saying that. But I finished the eighth one.
[14:22] Speaker 2: I didn't know what to do, and then I actually,
[14:25] Speaker 2: I hope you're a listener. I ran into a girl
[14:27] Speaker 2: who came to my Grammarcy show at the park and
[14:30] Speaker 2: she goes, you need to read this book, and I
[14:31] Speaker 2: went and bought it. But it's love Letters to a
[14:34] Speaker 2: serial Killer and it's really fun.
[14:36] Speaker 1: I'm into it really. Yeah. I'm only like fifty pages in.
[14:40] Speaker 1: But I was like scared that nothing but gay hockey
[14:42] Speaker 1: would like get me to read.
[14:44] Speaker 4: But I found Murder.
[14:46] Speaker 5: Murder.
[14:47] Speaker 1: Now it's a muscle. Now it's a muscle that it's working. Now, yeah,
[14:50] Speaker 1: you can do other stuff. Well now when I started
[14:53] Speaker 1: in people have been dming stuff that you should also
[14:56] Speaker 1: read yeah, like about gay FBI agents. Once somebody said
[14:59] Speaker 1: some and I got a forwarded.
[15:01] Speaker 2: I need it because I bought a straight book and
[15:03] Speaker 2: it just wasn't doing it. I like, couldn't read this
[15:05] Speaker 2: straight romance, but this one has a murder element and
[15:08] Speaker 2: she's like writing to this murderer and I do enjoy it,
[15:10] Speaker 2: but I needed this.
[15:11] Speaker 1: I need gay fbis you need to say that, Yeah,
[15:13] Speaker 1: I'll forward it to you. I definitely need.
[15:15] Speaker 2: But whatever, So okay, there's so many So anyways, I've
[15:19] Speaker 2: just been like out and about and it's mostly heated
[15:21] Speaker 2: rivalry related. But Connor Story's v Man magazine. I don't
[15:26] Speaker 2: know what that is, but it came out. It was
[15:28] Speaker 2: supposed to come out the sixteenth to Barnes and Noble.
[15:30] Speaker 2: So I'm on it. I'm showing it. They go, we
[15:32] Speaker 2: don't have it. We don't know when magazines come. It's
[15:34] Speaker 2: per the distributor. Like they were stressed. You could tell
[15:37] Speaker 2: Barnes and Noble was stressed. So I start calling magazine shops.
[15:40] Speaker 2: I'm calling all the places in New York like trying
[15:42] Speaker 2: to get this magazine. So then one guy finally he's like,
[15:44] Speaker 2: come tomorrow morning, just please come tomorrow morning. So that
[15:47] Speaker 2: so that's Saint Patrick's stay. So I'm up at like
[15:49] Speaker 2: eight third, I'm like, let's go.
[15:50] Speaker 1: So so you are partying, you're tracking out a magazine,
[15:53] Speaker 1: so you are partying a little bit, so you're on
[15:58] Speaker 1: the fucking case Like this is so good.
[16:01] Speaker 2: I get to the story immediately, like I'll take three,
[16:04] Speaker 2: and he's and then I give him money and he
[16:05] Speaker 2: goes wanting to do five. I go, I don't need
[16:07] Speaker 2: He goes, you could sell it. I go, that's not
[16:08] Speaker 2: my spirit. And then I go and then I go like,
[16:13] Speaker 2: how's it been or what's going on? And he goes,
[16:15] Speaker 2: you people are driving me crazy.
[16:20] Speaker 4: Like they're bringing back print meet that's a slur.
[16:22] Speaker 1: You're only talking about women.
[16:24] Speaker 4: You're basically mostly talking about women.
[16:27] Speaker 2: And then I go, I'll take a fourth one. I go, okay,
[16:29] Speaker 2: because I'm gonna give one my niece whatever, Like I just, I.
[16:32] Speaker 1: Just I'm surprised they didn't put a limit on it,
[16:33] Speaker 1: like the Princess Diana Beanie baby out where I worked,
[16:36] Speaker 1: we were only allowed to buy one.
[16:38] Speaker 2: No, he wanted me to buy more. He was, and
[16:40] Speaker 2: then he gave me. He's like, well, let's fold it.
[16:42] Speaker 2: I go excuse me. He goes, that's okay, right. I go,
[16:44] Speaker 2: absolutely not, and you said there's two why are you
[16:46] Speaker 2: doing that? And then he's like and started opening a
[16:49] Speaker 2: new box. He was like pissed, but I got the magazines.
[16:52] Speaker 2: But then so I went to go get another book
[16:55] Speaker 2: and I'm in like Matao's neighborhood.
[16:58] Speaker 1: This is like and in my and my guy.
[17:00] Speaker 2: I go, oh, I should see if he wants to
[17:02] Speaker 2: do breakfast and I was like, oh, whatever, it's Saint
[17:03] Speaker 2: Patrick's there. I think I have to do something else.
[17:05] Speaker 2: So then I go to the bookstore. I got recognized
[17:08] Speaker 2: at the bookstore. The one of those guys who works
[17:10] Speaker 2: there goes, I hear you on Sydney and Marie's podcast.
[17:12] Speaker 2: I love their podcast, and I heard Mateo call you
[17:15] Speaker 2: and he mentions Mateo. One minute later, Mateo calls me
[17:18] Speaker 2: like can you believe that?
[17:21] Speaker 5: What?
[17:22] Speaker 2: And he goes, hey, we're filming something and a bunch
[17:24] Speaker 2: of people are late.
[17:24] Speaker 4: Can you like rush over and do something real quick?
[17:27] Speaker 2: And I went okay, So like that felt kind of
[17:30] Speaker 2: serendipitous and psychotic, yeah, like to like Mateo, And then
[17:33] Speaker 2: it happened, so like that was really really fun but
[17:36] Speaker 2: so we just did a thing. But I got my
[17:37] Speaker 2: magazines and I just loved the way the guy. Oh
[17:41] Speaker 2: but then for Saint Patrick. Then my road agent, no
[17:45] Speaker 2: big deal. Ryan was like, Hey, my mom's flight got fucked.
[17:48] Speaker 2: I have Broadway tickets. Do you want to come see
[17:49] Speaker 2: a show? And I went, I guess this is all
[17:52] Speaker 2: meant to be honest. Say so, I saw a show
[17:56] Speaker 2: called Strangers Carrying a Cake in New York.
[18:00] Speaker 1: Oh cool. I never heard of it across to New York.
[18:03] Speaker 1: Across I had to look at the magnet I bought,
[18:05] Speaker 1: but I happened. Of course you bought merch. Was it good?
[18:09] Speaker 2: It was lovely? It was like sweet romantic. I love
[18:11] Speaker 2: the set. They're very, very talented.
[18:13] Speaker 1: I don't think those songs are like hits or whatever,
[18:16] Speaker 1: but they're it's good.
[18:17] Speaker 4: I laughed. I was into it.
[18:19] Speaker 2: And I think people are into like romance vibes, so
[18:21] Speaker 2: like people who are like oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
[18:24] Speaker 1: Kind of fun.
[18:25] Speaker 2: And I had a great time and just like any
[18:27] Speaker 2: you know, it's like it just feel it's like a
[18:29] Speaker 2: just feels cool to be in New York and be
[18:31] Speaker 2: able to go to a Broadway show last minute, you
[18:32] Speaker 2: know what I mean? And I was next to two
[18:35] Speaker 2: teen girls and there was a Harry Potter joke and
[18:37] Speaker 2: the way.
[18:37] Speaker 4: They laugh then they got that one.
[18:41] Speaker 2: No, but okay, So before I bought my eighth gay
[18:43] Speaker 2: hockey book and it finished it I So I go
[18:46] Speaker 2: to Barnes and Noble and I'm in line with it
[18:49] Speaker 2: and a man budges me. But you know, like like Sephora,
[18:52] Speaker 2: like there's items on the side, so you're just you're looking.
[18:55] Speaker 1: But a man cuts me in line. But I'm like,
[18:58] Speaker 1: I love that. I never heard I only hear you
[19:01] Speaker 1: say that budging. Budging, Yeah, like someone budges you. It's like,
[19:05] Speaker 1: is that you say that to case? Yeah? Like I
[19:08] Speaker 1: never heard that before? Really, and except you said I
[19:11] Speaker 1: know you said it before. It's so cute. Cut is
[19:14] Speaker 1: like you're cutting me. Budge is like I just nudged
[19:16] Speaker 1: in front of you. But it's not nice. No, it's
[19:18] Speaker 1: like an old guy and I'm not in a hurry.
[19:20] Speaker 1: So I was like what hu.
[19:21] Speaker 2: Then a second man cuts me in line, so then
[19:23] Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, what's like? Am I invisible? So I go, okay, sir,
[19:27] Speaker 2: like what's going on here? I'm in line? Why is
[19:29] Speaker 2: ever going in front of me. It's Neil Patrick Harris.
[19:32] Speaker 1: He turns around, Wait what at Barnes and nobody? And
[19:40] Speaker 1: aren't you friends with him? From your go ahead?
[19:43] Speaker 2: So I go, oh hey, I go I met you
[19:46] Speaker 2: backstage at your at your play and he goes, okay,
[19:50] Speaker 2: I just I thought you were looking at the items.
[19:52] Speaker 2: I go, I know, it was just like you were
[19:54] Speaker 2: the second person to budge me.
[19:56] Speaker 4: It just was kind of crazy, and he went okay,
[19:59] Speaker 4: and then that was it.
[20:00] Speaker 1: Ah. But then it was like so New York because
[20:03] Speaker 1: then I left and then I ran into John Early
[20:05] Speaker 1: at the farmers market. It really it's really been like
[20:07] Speaker 1: I guess a who's who of adventure when you leave
[20:09] Speaker 1: the house, you know what I mean?
[20:11] Speaker 4: I got nineteen thousand steps I think two days ago.
[20:14] Speaker 1: Geez, just trying to get a comfort rise the amount
[20:17] Speaker 1: of the hard to get ten Wait.
[20:19] Speaker 4: No, I do have to say it is a heated rivalrything.
[20:21] Speaker 2: But remember when I was first raving about it, I
[20:24] Speaker 2: mentioned how I love his progression of English and how
[20:29] Speaker 2: like it's because they shot it out of order. So
[20:31] Speaker 2: I was like the fact that his English gets better
[20:34] Speaker 2: and how he knows words is like so incredible, and
[20:36] Speaker 2: so I saw an interview with the script supervisor, and
[20:40] Speaker 2: I guess I didn't realize. I knew it was about
[20:41] Speaker 2: continuity and script stuff, and I remember the script supervisor
[20:45] Speaker 2: and survival being like, you need a jacket.
[20:47] Speaker 4: You're coming from outside. But I didn't put it together.
[20:51] Speaker 2: But it's her that would be like because in the
[20:53] Speaker 2: book when he gives Shane his room number, he goes
[20:56] Speaker 2: twelve twenty one, and I noticed in the show he
[20:59] Speaker 2: goes one two two one, and I was like, I
[21:01] Speaker 2: wonder what that was. And it was the fucking script supervisor.
[21:04] Speaker 2: She's like, your English is too good. She's like, it's
[21:07] Speaker 2: too early.
[21:07] Speaker 4: I'd say twelve twenty one, you would say one two
[21:10] Speaker 4: two one.
[21:10] Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was just like, holy shit. It was
[21:13] Speaker 2: someone's fucking job and they did a good job at it,
[21:16] Speaker 2: and I did notice it, and it was just cool
[21:19] Speaker 2: that I caught that interview and the.
[21:20] Speaker 1: Idea I was that new thing. So script supervisors are
[21:24] Speaker 1: like the people that are like me on this podcast
[21:26] Speaker 1: looking for the holes like you.
[21:28] Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm like, would I be good at that job?
[21:30] Speaker 1: Like you have to be like, wait a minute, that
[21:32] Speaker 1: doesn't really make sense because you're coming from a totally
[21:34] Speaker 1: different place.
[21:35] Speaker 2: Like, no, I had the wrong impression. I was like,
[21:37] Speaker 2: they're the nerds who want me to be script perfect
[21:39] Speaker 2: and I don't want to. Like in my head, I'm like,
[21:41] Speaker 2: get away from me and I'm gonna say whatever I want.
[21:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so interesting that they have to have like
[21:46] Speaker 1: the whole does it makes you think it's.
[21:49] Speaker 4: Just really cool that the like the that good.
[21:53] Speaker 2: I mean, also, we didn't even mention the fucking oscars
[21:55] Speaker 2: were already at a half hour.
[21:56] Speaker 4: This is a nightmare. And I'm like, I just with
[21:58] Speaker 4: Ryan Coogler.
[21:59] Speaker 2: It's like with him, it's like the team, it's the
[22:01] Speaker 2: people together, it's everyone working so hard, it's everything, and
[22:04] Speaker 2: then his and then everyone talking about him in such
[22:07] Speaker 2: a beautiful way. And I'm just like James Cameron, you
[22:10] Speaker 2: suck right, like no one thinks you're nice, and it's
[22:13] Speaker 2: like you can make great things and also be beloved
[22:15] Speaker 2: and nurture other people's talent.
[22:17] Speaker 4: And I just love him.
[22:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, Ryan Coogler is the mushco Hargate I would say
[22:21] Speaker 1: of the movie world. And like I would, I would
[22:24] Speaker 1: be devastated if like someone comes out and is like
[22:27] Speaker 1: he doesn't he is mean to me. At the laundromat,
[22:30] Speaker 1: like I don't know, like I'm gonna be He's just
[22:32] Speaker 1: so like he gives me hope. And I'm gonna watch
[22:36] Speaker 1: Sinners because now it's too much. Now I gotta watch it.
[22:38] Speaker 1: I'm gonna watch and that weapons one that's like a
[22:40] Speaker 1: big whorry, that's like fucking cool. I love I mean,
[22:45] Speaker 1: I love A. I love A like a later in
[22:50] Speaker 1: life Hollywood, like she's been working for so long, give
[22:53] Speaker 1: her some flower, Like I love that with Amy Madigan.
[22:55] Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's great.
[22:57] Speaker 2: I like he's doing that the lights well, Leo looked
[23:02] Speaker 2: hot because I watched that Libies and like at the
[23:04] Speaker 2: same time, we looked at each other and we're like whoa.
[23:07] Speaker 2: And Allison's like, it's he still does it for me.
[23:09] Speaker 2: And then I was with other people and everyone was
[23:11] Speaker 2: just like like he did something or he's getting ready
[23:13] Speaker 2: for something because he looks fucking good.
[23:15] Speaker 1: He looked your You know what I've said on this podcast,
[23:18] Speaker 1: Leo doesn't do it for me.
[23:20] Speaker 4: I've said on this podcast.
[23:21] Speaker 1: When they shot came to him during the rose Burn
[23:24] Speaker 1: thing when she was taught, when he was like no,
[23:27] Speaker 1: I was like, why does he look hot? Like he
[23:30] Speaker 1: did look good. He's like deep puffed or something.
[23:32] Speaker 2: Well, the rumor is because he's gonna shoot a Scorsese
[23:35] Speaker 2: movie with Jennifer Lawrence and she's so hot.
[23:38] Speaker 4: Somebody told me that Scorsese retired.
[23:41] Speaker 2: Casey also also Scorsese Pta, and who's the other one.
[23:46] Speaker 2: They all won their Best Movie Oscars with fucking Leo.
[23:51] Speaker 1: Leo gets the people Oscars. He's their muse. Yeah.
[23:55] Speaker 2: Oh, and James Cameron for Titanic, like he fucking gets
[23:57] Speaker 2: yeah Oscars.
[23:59] Speaker 1: He's so good.
[23:59] Speaker 4: Y No Connor and Hudson looks so good.
[24:03] Speaker 2: And I bought new sheets and I bought brown sheets
[24:04] Speaker 2: because he was wearing brown. I was like, maybe I'll
[24:06] Speaker 2: just do brown sheet.
[24:07] Speaker 1: Noah. They looked like complimentary and they're like sheer those
[24:10] Speaker 1: like sheer numbers that they were. I had some friends
[24:13] Speaker 1: that went to those parties and it's just so funny
[24:16] Speaker 1: because everyone's like it's really just a lot of celebrities
[24:18] Speaker 1: waiting around in lines like it's people, and like everybody
[24:21] Speaker 1: gets to these parties afterwards and they my friend sent
[24:23] Speaker 1: me what they had underneath the seats, and it's like
[24:25] Speaker 1: a Bauga's bag of skinny pop and a water bottle,
[24:27] Speaker 1: Like these people are starving, Like they get to these
[24:29] Speaker 1: parties after then they get.
[24:31] Speaker 2: To go to the chateau for like Beyonce or like
[24:32] Speaker 2: Madonna's parties. Yeah, they have like a good time. Yeah
[24:36] Speaker 2: oh yeah the guy oh Siri party. Oh I have
[24:39] Speaker 2: one more thing I'd like to plug. I went to
[24:42] Speaker 2: a party at club Coming for Underdogs. It's an Audible show.
[24:46] Speaker 2: Drew Anderson and Marshabell Ski. Yes, they've been working five years,
[24:50] Speaker 2: Like I remember the day they both told me they
[24:52] Speaker 2: got this deal that they're starting to write it. Alan
[24:55] Speaker 2: Cummings in it BB New Earth, but young young actors
[25:00] Speaker 2: like early twenty maybe teens.
[25:02] Speaker 4: That's sang and they were one of them. Brought me
[25:04] Speaker 4: to tears.
[25:05] Speaker 2: I was fully crying at the end, like it was
[25:08] Speaker 2: so good and it's about like the kids in a
[25:11] Speaker 2: school who don't make the play and then they make
[25:13] Speaker 2: their own like play and it's called Underdog.
[25:15] Speaker 1: I love that way. When does it? Is it out
[25:16] Speaker 1: already out?
[25:17] Speaker 2: It's out on Audible And it was like and the
[25:19] Speaker 2: live show was so fun. And then Natalie Walker, who's
[25:23] Speaker 2: an incredible singer, she's y and.
[25:24] Speaker 1: She always she's funny. You should keep.
[25:26] Speaker 4: Following her, Why have I heard from her?
[25:29] Speaker 1: Maybe she still do it, but to honor like high
[25:31] Speaker 1: school vibes, she was like, you know, I played Fontine
[25:34] Speaker 1: and ley Miz, but I was such a theater girl
[25:37] Speaker 1: that I, you know, I need to know how she died.
[25:40] Speaker 1: And since it was syphilis, I while I sang the
[25:42] Speaker 1: last song, I started going blind. And so she's saying
[25:45] Speaker 1: as her high school self, like going blind from syphilis
[25:48] Speaker 1: as she saying, And it was like, I mean, it
[25:51] Speaker 1: was like the best and I don't know, yeah, so
[25:54] Speaker 1: if you guys want to do that. It was an
[25:57] Speaker 1: incredible show. And then Julia listened to it all already
[26:00] Speaker 1: and said it was so fucking good.
[26:01] Speaker 4: So I'm obsessed.
[26:03] Speaker 1: Those don't. I haven't listened to it, but I can
[26:06] Speaker 1: attest that Drew Anderson and Marshabelski are two of the
[26:09] Speaker 1: funniest people, so talented, so and see, yeah, go listen.
[26:13] Speaker 2: And they love musical theater. It's basically, if you love
[26:15] Speaker 2: musical theater like you will love this.
[26:17] Speaker 1: Oh my god, I feel like a lot of our
[26:19] Speaker 1: listeners will be into this.
[26:21] Speaker 2: All right, this was long. I mean, this was really
[26:23] Speaker 2: a lot of name drops too. If that's something you
[26:25] Speaker 2: I know love about what we did.
[26:26] Speaker 1: It's aust for week and I went to randomly see
[26:29] Speaker 1: this play. How could I ever have known I was
[26:31] Speaker 1: going to cross paths with that ass? Wait?
[26:34] Speaker 2: But what else about the I can't believe. Well, it's
[26:36] Speaker 2: funny because I've made a friend host. And then I
[26:38] Speaker 2: came late and then I had to leave early for
[26:40] Speaker 2: a spot. And then everyone goes, we wouldn't have watched it.
[26:42] Speaker 2: You forced this upon us. Why are you doing this?
[26:45] Speaker 2: And I went, I'm sorry.
[26:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, I watched it at another comedian's house and we
[26:52] Speaker 1: just I love filling out the ballots because I'm actually
[26:54] Speaker 1: pretty good at the ballots, even in like sound editing
[26:58] Speaker 1: and crap like that.
[26:58] Speaker 4: I'm just like kind of good at guests. What's going
[27:00] Speaker 4: to well?
[27:00] Speaker 2: I'm also casting was really exciting, and I'm so glad
[27:05] Speaker 2: that she got to like rib Pta too.
[27:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like crazy, but I had to leave before
[27:10] Speaker 1: the big I had to leave before all the big announces, unfortunately,
[27:13] Speaker 1: because it's like it was like seven o'clock and I
[27:14] Speaker 1: had to get my kids to bed. But like, I
[27:18] Speaker 1: was really happy for all the people. I guess there
[27:22] Speaker 1: were that many disappointments best supporting. I was like, not
[27:25] Speaker 1: that down with Sean Penwin.
[27:26] Speaker 2: Guess what, He's in fucking Ukraine with Zelensky and gave
[27:29] Speaker 2: him the oscar Like he's like, oh okay, I know
[27:32] Speaker 2: we all hate him and he's like in fucking Ukraine.
[27:33] Speaker 2: I was talking about him and then someone goes, I
[27:35] Speaker 2: think he's in Ukraine doing humanitarian aid and I went, well, okay,
[27:39] Speaker 2: I think.
[27:39] Speaker 4: He'll still be okay, two things can be true.
[27:43] Speaker 2: No, I was gonna say, did you see Wendy what's
[27:45] Speaker 2: her name not McLevin, what's her name, Wendy mcleey.
[27:48] Speaker 1: Plending Covey. Did you see why she didn't make it
[27:51] Speaker 1: to the oscars? Yeah? She goes, I gotta I got
[27:53] Speaker 1: a neck lift and I'm sick of looking like a
[27:56] Speaker 1: melting candle.
[27:56] Speaker 4: So that's where I am. There's no bad blood.
[28:01] Speaker 2: I mean, she's incredible, but that's what everyone was thinking,
[28:03] Speaker 2: like where the fuck's are, bitch?
[28:04] Speaker 1: Like where the bucks are?
[28:05] Speaker 5: Girl?
[28:06] Speaker 4: But that was really fun, love her, love her. Before
[28:10] Speaker 4: we get started.
[28:11] Speaker 1: I just also want to mention that Exactly Rights web
[28:14] Speaker 1: store is having a spring cleaning sale that starts this Thursday,
[28:18] Speaker 1: March twenty sixth. You can use the code EERM Spring
[28:22] Speaker 1: twenty six for twenty percent off site wide. There's some exclusions,
[28:26] Speaker 1: I guess, but there's a last chance section, so you know,
[28:30] Speaker 1: just you can go get our Lois Louise Lewis t
[28:33] Speaker 1: shirt that I love so much, and we have some
[28:35] Speaker 1: other random leftover merch up there, so you can go
[28:39] Speaker 1: grab that stuff at exactly rightstore dot com or you know,
[28:42] Speaker 1: the link is in our bio and at That's messed
[28:44] Speaker 1: Up Live dot com, where you can also find Lisa's
[28:46] Speaker 1: tour schedule and all of our other pertinent links.
[28:52] Speaker 4: All right, let's get started.
[28:55] Speaker 1: We've got, I mean nothing short of a fantastic episode today.
[29:03] Speaker 2: All right, Tommy's we're doing Reasonable Doubt season fifteen, episode
[29:07] Speaker 2: twenty two, May seventh, twenty fourteen, aka the Bradley Whitford episode.
[29:14] Speaker 2: I'm thrilled. And we've talked to Samantha Mathis, who's in this.
[29:17] Speaker 2: We talked to her about it with a different episode.
[29:20] Speaker 2: She's a hero for you, I remember, I love her. Yeah,
[29:24] Speaker 2: And so we start off and it's an old timey musical.
[29:27] Speaker 2: I think it's an eight track or something, and it
[29:29] Speaker 2: says New York Hustle seventies font green and orange, you
[29:33] Speaker 2: know that perfect seventies color. And are they they they
[29:38] Speaker 2: sprung for Earthwind and Fire Bookie Wonderland.
[29:41] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it is Booky Wonderland. Yep. So that's pretty huge.
[29:44] Speaker 2: Full disco, everyone's dancing colorfull floor short shorts. We follow
[29:49] Speaker 2: a blonde, curly haired woman and a pimp and they
[29:51] Speaker 2: walk over to a drug dealer and then she truly
[29:53] Speaker 2: gets on her knees in the middle of the club
[29:55] Speaker 2: and is about to start blowing this man. And then
[29:58] Speaker 2: she sees a badge and screams he's a cop, he's
[30:01] Speaker 2: a pig, and starts running huge gun situation. Everything's crazy,
[30:06] Speaker 2: and then obviously cut cut cut. We're we're acting, and
[30:11] Speaker 2: the actor in the leather is pissed about the cut,
[30:15] Speaker 2: and then Bradley Whitford runs out. He's the director, he's
[30:18] Speaker 2: named Frank, and he's pissed too. He's like, how darey
[30:22] Speaker 2: you fucking not call me for first team rehearsal And
[30:25] Speaker 2: then someone's like, dude, we were behind. But he would
[30:27] Speaker 2: never do a rehearsal without a director, like that would
[30:29] Speaker 2: be psychoed, Like, yeah, it wouldn't even happen without him,
[30:31] Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like it just wouldn't even happen,
[30:33] Speaker 2: So I like, I'm not on Frank's side, but I
[30:37] Speaker 2: get Frank being like what are you guys doing, but
[30:40] Speaker 2: not yelling like that. Then he then he gives off
[30:43] Speaker 2: very much manager of a restaurant who's never there, but
[30:46] Speaker 2: then shows up to yell at people about things that
[30:48] Speaker 2: don't actually matter. So he basically goes, well, now you're
[30:50] Speaker 2: gonna be further behind because this is all wrong. Rose
[30:53] Speaker 2: is a whore? What is this pink and then rubs
[30:56] Speaker 2: the actress's lips, stick off her mouth too in a
[30:59] Speaker 2: sent and then calls it different actor a moron, says,
[31:04] Speaker 2: can you pretend you're straight for once and take her
[31:07] Speaker 2: like a man, And then he grabs the actress and
[31:10] Speaker 2: takes her and starts making out with her and then says,
[31:13] Speaker 2: you were so hot last night. We're surrounded by idiots.
[31:17] Speaker 2: He screams, you gotta make her want it.
[31:19] Speaker 1: I need it raw more, smoke more smoke, suck and blow,
[31:24] Speaker 1: suck and blow. You know what sucks? The costumes fucking suck.
[31:28] Speaker 1: They're not the red shorts I picked, and they're like
[31:30] Speaker 1: you said, bright red. He goes I said, Crimson, And
[31:33] Speaker 1: then he runs out and he yells about the car.
[31:36] Speaker 2: The car's too shiny. Then he threatens to kill off
[31:39] Speaker 2: someone's character. And then a woman in a ballet flat
[31:42] Speaker 2: and tight ass genes, you know what year it is,
[31:45] Speaker 2: and she goes, I don't think we can kill him,
[31:47] Speaker 2: and he goes, it's cable, who gives a shit? And
[31:50] Speaker 2: the threat and then threatens you know, more death scene. Oh,
[31:56] Speaker 2: he goes, you know what about I write a death
[31:59] Speaker 2: scene where you're also questioning your sexuality, so you like,
[32:03] Speaker 2: you're gonna question your sexuality, have gay.
[32:06] Speaker 1: Sex and then die. So that's the worst death ever
[32:09] Speaker 1: for an actor, not just to die, but.
[32:11] Speaker 4: To die maybe gay like. So then donal donal logue,
[32:17] Speaker 4: donal logue, you know what's crazy?
[32:19] Speaker 2: So I was like talk, I was like thinking about
[32:21] Speaker 2: him while I was writing this, and I was like, God,
[32:23] Speaker 2: what a dream guest. I hope we can get him.
[32:25] Speaker 2: Why hasn't he done the pod? And then I remembered
[32:27] Speaker 2: he did the pod. He did the pod, He's done
[32:29] Speaker 2: the pot.
[32:30] Speaker 1: We've truly like and then I remember I was talking
[32:33] Speaker 1: and stuff, but I forgot like we've just had so
[32:36] Speaker 1: many guests and I was like, I can't believe we
[32:38] Speaker 1: did talk to Donald lug Well, you know Rollin's baby
[32:41] Speaker 1: daddy undercover Hattie.
[32:43] Speaker 2: Truly, I wrote in the notes, I wrote, truly one
[32:45] Speaker 2: of my dream guests. Wait, I just realized and remember
[32:49] Speaker 2: we talked to him. Oh my god. Benson's there and
[32:56] Speaker 2: the view of the city so pretty, and they want
[32:58] Speaker 2: to talk to Frank and he's like lol, and they're like,
[33:01] Speaker 2: it's about your daughter, and he softens and he goes,
[33:03] Speaker 2: it's Chelsea okay, and Benson goes, well, that's what we're
[33:06] Speaker 2: trying to figure out. And he immediately goes, oh, what
[33:08] Speaker 2: is this about my ex Catherine? And it's like, why
[33:12] Speaker 2: don't you focus on your daughter? The NYPD is there
[33:15] Speaker 2: because of your daughter and your thing is immediately like
[33:18] Speaker 2: I'm being set up? What did Catherine do? And it's like,
[33:20] Speaker 2: why are you jumping to that verse? How is my daughter?
[33:25] Speaker 1: Yeah? To me, it's like, you're guilty.
[33:27] Speaker 2: Whatever this is, whatever happens, I know you're fucking guilty.
[33:30] Speaker 2: Because that's a crazy response. Donald goes, yes, let's talk
[33:34] Speaker 2: in private. He goes, what's she accusing me of now?
[33:37] Speaker 2: And it's like, what if she got into a car?
[33:38] Speaker 1: Accident.
[33:39] Speaker 2: What if she fell in the playground, Like, why are
[33:42] Speaker 2: you assuming it's an Like I don't understand. But and
[33:47] Speaker 2: then like Donald is wearing sunglasses, Murphy, but you could
[33:51] Speaker 2: tell he's looking at this guy like your fucking scum U.
[33:54] Speaker 2: But he goes, it wasn't Catherine. It was Chelsea's pediatrician.
[33:59] Speaker 2: And he thinks that she she may be a victim
[34:00] Speaker 2: of sexual abuse. And again it's about him, not Oh
[34:03] Speaker 2: my god, what happened to her?
[34:04] Speaker 1: Is my daughter?
[34:05] Speaker 4: Okay, it's straight.
[34:06] Speaker 2: So Catherine said it's me And then he scoffs and goes,
[34:09] Speaker 2: you're wasting your time. I'm in a custody battle and
[34:12] Speaker 2: my wife's out of her fucking mind, and you can
[34:15] Speaker 2: talk to my lawyer. And it's like you still have
[34:18] Speaker 2: not asked who, Like what if it was someone else
[34:21] Speaker 2: abusing her?
[34:23] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[34:24] Speaker 4: Why are you asking what the pediatrician found?
[34:29] Speaker 1: I mean, I think I think it's accurately portraying what
[34:32] Speaker 1: a mess this is. That like everybody's just paranoid and
[34:36] Speaker 1: going at each other and nobody is actually thinking about
[34:39] Speaker 1: the best interest of the child at all. Yeah.
[34:42] Speaker 2: Yeah, So now it cuts to a video of a
[34:47] Speaker 2: young redheaded girl and she's on tape answering questions. So
[34:50] Speaker 2: Barbara Amaro and Rollins are watching at the DA's office.
[34:55] Speaker 2: Do you think the DA and cops watch these offices
[34:58] Speaker 2: and go, wow, we wish our office look that nice?
[35:01] Speaker 4: Like do you think they're pissed? And how nice like
[35:04] Speaker 4: teen seasons are?
[35:04] Speaker 2: Because I feel season one they try to be rugged
[35:07] Speaker 2: cops and then like, yeah, definitely really had. It's very
[35:11] Speaker 2: modern now because when I went to one PP it
[35:14] Speaker 2: felt like shit.
[35:14] Speaker 4: It looked like looked like shit.
[35:18] Speaker 2: So basically, this little redhead of cutie, she's like, you know,
[35:23] Speaker 2: he said that I spilled ice cream on my dress,
[35:25] Speaker 2: but he spilled the ice cream and we went to
[35:27] Speaker 2: the laundry room and he took off my clothes and
[35:30] Speaker 2: then because he had to clean them, but then he
[35:32] Speaker 2: sat her on the washing machine and said it was
[35:34] Speaker 2: fun the way it moved, and he held her. And
[35:37] Speaker 2: she's a and the prompter of the questions is her mom,
[35:42] Speaker 2: Catherine Summers, who's an actress, divorcing this husband. And the
[35:46] Speaker 2: reason they're getting a divorce is because Frank left her
[35:50] Speaker 2: for her younger sister, Rose, who is a teenager. So
[35:54] Speaker 2: and the whole episode They're like, Catherine, stop being so upset,
[35:57] Speaker 2: like you dumb bitch, just get over it.
[35:59] Speaker 1: Like no one says seems secure that he's dating an
[36:01] Speaker 1: eighteen or nineteen year old at this point that like
[36:05] Speaker 1: he like, everyone's just like Catherine's such a pill.
[36:07] Speaker 2: Why won't she get over it? And no one's like
[36:11] Speaker 2: why did you? Like, why'd you take the team? Why
[36:14] Speaker 2: did you? Everyone's like she's jealous. She's jealous.
[36:17] Speaker 1: This is like, so are I'm going to get into
[36:19] Speaker 1: it later with the real crime, you know, yeah you will. Okay,
[36:24] Speaker 1: So basically, you know he dated where he left for
[36:28] Speaker 1: the teen sister, and now the teen sister is the arc.
[36:31] Speaker 1: So like that blonde, curly haired woman that you saw
[36:35] Speaker 1: him kiss on set is a teenager. And yeah, so
[36:39] Speaker 1: that's that.
[36:40] Speaker 2: Now Catherine made the video and there are multiple time jumps,
[36:43] Speaker 2: so that's of course suspicious to like Tomorrow and Rollins
[36:48] Speaker 2: because they want to defend him. And then Barbara's like, great,
[36:50] Speaker 2: a high profile mess with a bunch of ego and
[36:54] Speaker 2: like a divorce, Get ready for the media. Circus. Okay, circus,
[36:58] Speaker 2: come into town. Credit he's in woodroom Blinds and Jeffrey
[37:03] Speaker 2: tambour is his lawyer, who.
[37:05] Speaker 4: I think miss Cobra harassment.
[37:09] Speaker 1: Yes, he's had a harassment, he's had an he's been canceled,
[37:13] Speaker 1: I would say, due to harassment, bad behavior on sets,
[37:17] Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera.
[37:18] Speaker 2: But he is in this episode and he is the lawyer,
[37:21] Speaker 2: and Frank is like, yeah, I'm an asshole, but I'm
[37:23] Speaker 2: not a pedophile. This is all Catherine. And then Murphy's like,
[37:27] Speaker 2: well you did fuck her little sister. And he's like, well,
[37:30] Speaker 2: we're in love. And the lawyer starts talking about punishing
[37:32] Speaker 2: the pediatrician for a false report, and it's like, what, No,
[37:36] Speaker 2: we need doctors reporting, like you cannot sue the doctor
[37:39] Speaker 2: for like I would rather doctors go above and beyond
[37:43] Speaker 2: and be wrong about abuse instead of letting it fucking
[37:46] Speaker 2: go right. And Benson's like, okay, we just need your
[37:50] Speaker 2: side about how we you know, that's how we're going
[37:52] Speaker 2: to start. So you were in Chelsea, were together at
[37:54] Speaker 2: your ex wife's apartment and he goes, yeah, I'm her father,
[37:58] Speaker 2: and the Tibetan nanny was and it's like such an
[38:01] Speaker 2: old person thing that, like why wouldn't you just say nanny? Yeah,
[38:06] Speaker 2: so weird. It's like cool, but I don't get it.
[38:09] Speaker 2: So her son Danny was there. Benson says, Chelsea said,
[38:12] Speaker 2: you played perverted games and he says, nope, Catherine told
[38:16] Speaker 2: her to say that. Catherine's borderline. She has cats, bunnies,
[38:20] Speaker 2: sixteen straight dogs. She's nuts. And Murphy's like, okay, so
[38:24] Speaker 2: yes or no? Did you assault your daughter? And he says,
[38:26] Speaker 2: if I wanted to assault my daughter, why wouldn't I
[38:29] Speaker 2: wait to get custody and then have her to myself?
[38:31] Speaker 2: And it's like, you're a pedophile to even think that. Yeah,
[38:35] Speaker 2: and don't they do that, Like if someone says, like you,
[38:38] Speaker 2: you're a pedophile, you would go that's disgusting.
[38:40] Speaker 1: No, I'm not. This is fucked. You don't go.
[38:43] Speaker 4: I mean, if I was a pedophile, don't you think
[38:45] Speaker 4: I would.
[38:45] Speaker 1: Have done it like this? Wouldn't I have been smarter? Yeah?
[38:48] Speaker 1: I didn't do it, but if I did? The OJ book, Yeah,
[38:51] Speaker 1: it's so strange to me. All these answers, and he
[38:54] Speaker 1: does it a few times throughout this episode, and the
[38:57] Speaker 1: lawyer says that's a no. Benson's like, so what happened?
[39:01] Speaker 1: He goes, we were playing chess and they're like in
[39:03] Speaker 1: the laundry room. He goes, I don't go in the
[39:05] Speaker 1: laundry room. No, no, no, there's spiders in there. Everyone
[39:08] Speaker 1: knows I'm scared of spiders. And it's like, okay.
[39:11] Speaker 2: The detectives go to meet Barbara, Amaro and Murphy are
[39:15] Speaker 2: like playing like dick competition games and like peacocking for Rollins,
[39:19] Speaker 2: and everyone's like wanting to fuck Rollins, but they say, like,
[39:22] Speaker 2: the dude didn't deny anything, really, and he used distancing language,
[39:26] Speaker 2: and he never said Chelsea's name or looked at her
[39:29] Speaker 2: photo and had an answer for everything and again did
[39:33] Speaker 2: not deny it. And Benson's like, go to the apartment,
[39:35] Speaker 2: talk to the nanny, make sure she's from Tibet, and
[39:39] Speaker 2: then talk to the ex wife, the daughter, the son.
[39:46] Speaker 2: There's a son, Like, let's go, so we need a
[39:48] Speaker 2: warrant for the laundry room. Though everyone scadatles, Rollins stays
[39:52] Speaker 2: to talk to Murphy and she, of course is like
[39:54] Speaker 2: there to defend a man, and she goes, Frank does
[39:57] Speaker 2: hate spiders.
[39:58] Speaker 1: It's like, why the fuck do you you know that?
[40:01] Speaker 2: So now we're at a big white house and Samantha
[40:03] Speaker 2: Mathis is holding a gorgeous husky puppy, holy shit, and
[40:09] Speaker 2: she explains that Frank is obsessed with Chelsea, which I
[40:13] Speaker 2: guess for her father is okay, but for a pedophile
[40:15] Speaker 2: not okay. So Amaro pet's the dog. And then they
[40:20] Speaker 2: need Chelsea to talk, but that's why she made the tape.
[40:22] Speaker 2: And they're like, well, to pursue the case, and she
[40:24] Speaker 2: stops them, like I don't want to pursue it, and
[40:26] Speaker 2: they're confused, but like the state can do it without
[40:30] Speaker 2: her as well, and we can also like tell child
[40:32] Speaker 2: services what's up. And she screams, I'm a good mother
[40:35] Speaker 2: and I love my daughter, and Benson's like, right, exactly,
[40:37] Speaker 2: So let me talk to Chelsea. We all need to
[40:39] Speaker 2: keep her safe, and she does agree. So they're at
[40:42] Speaker 2: a long dining room table. She does keep looking at
[40:45] Speaker 2: her mom before she talks, but also this is like
[40:47] Speaker 2: huge and scary, so maybe she wants to be with
[40:50] Speaker 2: her mom.
[40:50] Speaker 4: She's an incredible actress.
[40:51] Speaker 2: She looks so sad, but she says her and her
[40:53] Speaker 2: father play pretend cops and bad girls, Okay, disgusting. Every
[40:57] Speaker 2: time she talks, she looks off to her mom, and
[41:00] Speaker 2: she says that her dad said, if I can memorize
[41:02] Speaker 2: a story and lines I can be in one of
[41:04] Speaker 2: his shows. Amorrow's like, you know the difference between truth
[41:07] Speaker 2: and pretend? And they do this to every fucking child
[41:10] Speaker 2: and she says mm hm, but not very convincing, and
[41:13] Speaker 2: they want the mom out of the room. She doesn't
[41:14] Speaker 2: want to leave, and Benson's like, we'll be good, get
[41:16] Speaker 2: the fuck out of here. The mom rubs Chelsea's shoulders
[41:20] Speaker 2: on the way out, and Tomorrow like walks her way,
[41:22] Speaker 2: walks her away. If Amorrow told me to go anywhere,
[41:24] Speaker 2: I'd go, like, I don't understand why she's arguing, like
[41:27] Speaker 2: go with Amorrow. Benson's like, okay, we saw the video
[41:31] Speaker 2: you and your mom made that was real or pretend?
[41:33] Speaker 2: And she and that's like such a great way to ask.
[41:35] Speaker 2: Benson is amazing, and she says it's real and she's like,
[41:39] Speaker 2: did your mom ask you to remember lines? And she goes, no,
[41:42] Speaker 2: she told me to say what really happened? And I
[41:45] Speaker 2: trust this little girl. So Amorrow and Catherine are talking
[41:50] Speaker 2: and then nanny led him into the house, not her,
[41:54] Speaker 2: and she was at a matinee with her sister Mavis.
[41:57] Speaker 2: And this is not Rose. She's not speaking of Rose.
[41:59] Speaker 2: Obviously that's the one with Frank. This Mavis is a
[42:02] Speaker 2: middle sister and she's visiting from Oregon. She's not famous
[42:05] Speaker 2: at all, and he asked the question about Frank and
[42:08] Speaker 2: Catherine Nail's back. Frank does what Frank wants. She explains
[42:12] Speaker 2: that of course there's a set schedule, but he doesn't
[42:14] Speaker 2: pay any attention to it. Tomorrow is so smooth and sexy.
[42:18] Speaker 2: I would truly give him my Social Security and pin
[42:20] Speaker 2: number in a heart beat.
[42:22] Speaker 4: And I can't believe we talked to him. Great guest,
[42:25] Speaker 4: great guest, good face.
[42:26] Speaker 1: So she's true, he's got my pin number. I already
[42:29] Speaker 1: gave it. I chatted out to him during the interview.
[42:33] Speaker 1: I was like, just keep this just in case, wanting
[42:36] Speaker 1: to have this. Okay, So how this all started?
[42:39] Speaker 2: As Chelsea said her vagina hurt and Tomorrow is like,
[42:42] Speaker 2: is that your words are hers? And she goes hers,
[42:44] Speaker 2: I took her to the doctor. So then Finn is
[42:48] Speaker 2: there and Finn is with the nanny and he goes, bitch,
[42:50] Speaker 2: I know you smoke.
[42:51] Speaker 4: Were you smoking? And she's like, fuck, yeah, that's my
[42:53] Speaker 4: one vice.
[42:53] Speaker 2: And mister Maddox understands and so he let me go smoke,
[42:58] Speaker 2: and then nanny has no good answer, but saw them
[43:00] Speaker 2: come out of the laundry room and Chelsea had her
[43:03] Speaker 2: dress on but it was unbuttoned, and she went in
[43:06] Speaker 2: there wearing tights, and then when she came out, she
[43:08] Speaker 2: was wearing no tights. So he definitely let like sent
[43:11] Speaker 2: her out to go smoke so he can assault his
[43:13] Speaker 2: daughter in the laundry room. And she fucking saw the
[43:16] Speaker 2: tights be gone, like we all saw this. So Rollins
[43:18] Speaker 2: is with Daniel, the son, and they're playing with a
[43:20] Speaker 2: basketball mini size, like a bedroom hoop. And he was
[43:24] Speaker 2: at the country house, so he was not there for this.
[43:27] Speaker 2: And Daniel likes soccer and his dad doesn't, and you know,
[43:30] Speaker 2: he's like weird, and the basically the dad doesn't pay
[43:34] Speaker 2: attention to the sun at all, and he thinks it's
[43:36] Speaker 2: based on soccer, but it's basically based on being a pedophile.
[43:39] Speaker 2: So Daniel said that his father says boys are dirty,
[43:43] Speaker 2: and he likes girls and dressing them up and making
[43:46] Speaker 2: them do what he says, and Rollin goes what And
[43:49] Speaker 2: he goes, yeah, Chelsea, mom aunt Rose, so all of
[43:52] Speaker 2: his little actresses. It's strange, right, And Rollins is like, yeah,
[43:56] Speaker 2: but it's his job. It's fine, right, and he goes, yeah,
[43:59] Speaker 2: I mean he's that Chelsea can be in his show,
[44:01] Speaker 2: but not him because boys don't play dress up, and
[44:04] Speaker 2: Rollin's goes, how am I gonna spin this to protect
[44:07] Speaker 2: the man?
[44:08] Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
[44:08] Speaker 2: He's like she's sitting there being like, how am I
[44:11] Speaker 2: gonna invalidate this child? And then the boy continues that
[44:15] Speaker 2: his nanny feels bad for him, and then we're at
[44:19] Speaker 2: the precinct, so Murphy's in the middle. He looks like
[44:22] Speaker 2: a disheveled scientist and he's like, the mom thinks the
[44:25] Speaker 2: dad is an abuser, and the dad thinks the mom
[44:27] Speaker 2: is crazy.
[44:28] Speaker 4: What did the girl say?
[44:29] Speaker 2: And the girl said that her and the dad played
[44:31] Speaker 2: a game and he took off her dress, touched her
[44:33] Speaker 2: vaginally and told her it was a secret. Like what
[44:35] Speaker 2: are we even fucking talking about? And Rollin's goes, well,
[44:37] Speaker 2: is the mom credible? And Amaro goes she's got some issues,
[44:41] Speaker 2: and Finn says, doesn't mean the girl wasn't abused, and
[44:45] Speaker 2: Murphy says, either way, she's a pawn in the game
[44:47] Speaker 2: between these two, and Rollin says yeah, and the stakes
[44:51] Speaker 2: have just Risen. Someone just leaked nude photos of Rose.
[44:54] Speaker 2: So Frank took all these photos of Rose when she
[44:57] Speaker 2: was eighteen, and Benson says that she looks much younger
[45:00] Speaker 2: than that, so it's like, are we arresting him for
[45:02] Speaker 2: child abuse images? Amaro says this proves she is out
[45:06] Speaker 2: to get him, and he thinks Catherine leaked them without
[45:10] Speaker 2: a doubt in his mind. And so then Murphy goes, Okay,
[45:13] Speaker 2: then there's no point in sending you to ask her, huh?
[45:17] Speaker 2: And I really really love that. Finn and Rollins go
[45:20] Speaker 2: and it's a media circus. The non famous sister opens
[45:23] Speaker 2: the door, Chelsea and Catherine are there, but they send
[45:25] Speaker 2: Chelsea off, and Catherine's like, I'm so sick about this,
[45:28] Speaker 2: but I guess it was bound to fucking happen. I
[45:30] Speaker 2: had a strict rule to never allow them alone together,
[45:33] Speaker 2: and so I set up nanny cams and that's how
[45:36] Speaker 2: she even saw the like about the Rose situation. And
[45:39] Speaker 2: so Frank knew about the nanny cams and knew there
[45:42] Speaker 2: wasn't one in the laundry room, so Frank knows about them.
[45:45] Speaker 4: That's how she found out Rose.
[45:46] Speaker 2: And she's trying to protect her daughter, Chelsea, and I
[45:49] Speaker 2: believe Catherine. And Catherine points to the press and goes,
[45:52] Speaker 2: look at all these fucking vultures, and she's like, Frank
[45:55] Speaker 2: did this. He did this to humiliate me. And instead
[45:59] Speaker 2: of TMZ, they call it LMZ LOL. But they only
[46:03] Speaker 2: have print copies of the photos. They can't get a jpeg.
[46:06] Speaker 2: So if they had a jpeg, they could see when
[46:09] Speaker 2: it's created. And she's like, you think if I had
[46:11] Speaker 2: a jpeg, like I wouldn't have used it in the divorce.
[46:14] Speaker 2: He would be sleeping in his tesla, she says. So
[46:17] Speaker 2: they go talk to Rose and she calls her sad
[46:20] Speaker 2: and she should let go, and Benson's like, let go
[46:23] Speaker 2: that her sister and husband are sleeping together, like without
[46:26] Speaker 2: their teenager thing, that would still be grounds to not
[46:28] Speaker 2: speak together, you know what I mean. And so they're
[46:32] Speaker 2: on set and Frank told her that their love would
[46:36] Speaker 2: cost her her relationship with her sister, and that's just
[46:39] Speaker 2: what happens with older siblings. At first it's all about them,
[46:43] Speaker 2: and then the younger sister throws them out of orbit.
[46:46] Speaker 2: But she hopes that one day she can move on
[46:48] Speaker 2: with time. So we're in cement room bars. I mean,
[46:51] Speaker 2: she's going to turn thirty one day and realize that
[46:53] Speaker 2: she was groomed and it's going to be really hard
[46:55] Speaker 2: for her in therapy. But Frank thinks this is ridiculous,
[46:58] Speaker 2: and when he brings up his fiance, Murphy interrupts him
[47:02] Speaker 2: and goes, well, your fiance graduated high school last year,
[47:05] Speaker 2: and Benson says that his hair was found in the
[47:08] Speaker 2: laundry room of his ex wife's apartment. He goes, sure,
[47:10] Speaker 2: I'm sure my hair's everywhere, all over my clothes, her
[47:13] Speaker 2: clothes everywhere, and they go not that type of hair.
[47:16] Speaker 1: So it's a pube.
[47:18] Speaker 2: He goes, I'm sure Catherine planted it, like she's obsessed.
[47:21] Speaker 2: And he goes, well, your fingerprints were all over the
[47:23] Speaker 2: laundry machine too, Did she plant those? And he's like, fine,
[47:26] Speaker 2: I admit it. You know I was there, and it's like,
[47:28] Speaker 2: I thought you were scared of fucking spiders. So it
[47:31] Speaker 2: cuts to rollin she's at home, she's with her dog,
[47:34] Speaker 2: and it's like a really long shot of her just
[47:36] Speaker 2: with the dog and I really like it and it's cute,
[47:39] Speaker 2: and then she's watching Heraldo Rivera talk about the case
[47:43] Speaker 2: and they're talking Frank, Catherine pedophile, YadA YadA, YadA, revenge,
[47:47] Speaker 2: and then Amaro comes out in a fucking towel, abs
[47:50] Speaker 2: arms back.
[47:51] Speaker 1: Oh, I've been waiting for this episode. I'm like, what
[47:53] Speaker 1: episode is that where he's in the towel. Yep, here
[47:56] Speaker 1: we go. We really we so rarely get gifted in SVU,
[48:01] Speaker 1: like a hot bod that's not murdered or in trouble
[48:05] Speaker 1: or like being trapping. Yeah, so it's just so nice
[48:09] Speaker 1: to see him in a towel and he goes, yep,
[48:12] Speaker 1: Frank is firing back. Murphy was right, and he says
[48:15] Speaker 1: she's manipulating the kids. Catherine and Chelsea show up to
[48:18] Speaker 1: set and it's like, babe, can you leave your daughter
[48:21] Speaker 1: at home? Like, leave her at home? Why are you
[48:23] Speaker 1: bringing her here?
[48:23] Speaker 2: She's gonna be so embarrassed, Like she's embarrassed. She was
[48:27] Speaker 2: like assults it by her father and now you're like
[48:30] Speaker 2: doing these weird things. So and Catherine's crying and Rose goes,
[48:33] Speaker 2: are you drunk? And she goes, I've never been more
[48:35] Speaker 2: clear headed in my life. And Rose says we should talk,
[48:38] Speaker 2: and then we see Frank's in the back and he
[48:40] Speaker 2: makes this like a symbol with his hands to like
[48:42] Speaker 2: start rolling. So now they're like taping Catherine having this
[48:46] Speaker 2: like full mental breakdown, which is warranted, and she's like
[48:49] Speaker 2: Frank took her into the laundry room and sexually abused her.
[48:52] Speaker 2: And she's pointing at Chelsea and it's like, so the
[48:54] Speaker 2: whole set you have to point at the child and
[48:57] Speaker 2: be like she was abused.
[48:58] Speaker 1: This makes no sense. All these people and you're taping it.
[49:01] Speaker 1: It's like, so fucked up. Yeah, the dad's taping it,
[49:04] Speaker 1: the mom's doing it.
[49:05] Speaker 2: These are This is very much like the Hayden Paneter
[49:08] Speaker 2: abuse episode of like these narcissist already parents and so
[49:14] Speaker 2: and now okay, so then now Frank goes behind Chelsea
[49:18] Speaker 2: and rubs her shoulder and Catherine puts her hand to
[49:21] Speaker 2: her face and shock. Chelsea looks uncomfortable and upset. She goes, mom,
[49:25] Speaker 2: can we go please? And she's about to cry. And
[49:28] Speaker 2: this little girl again, best sad face I've ever seen.
[49:30] Speaker 2: And there's a long line of sad face actresses of
[49:33] Speaker 2: this of this series, and I will say she is top.
[49:37] Speaker 2: She would be nominated for the sad face. She's a
[49:39] Speaker 2: good sad little kid.
[49:41] Speaker 1: I was looking her up and the squad is watching
[49:43] Speaker 1: this on the laptop and it's like, so this is
[49:46] Speaker 1: the woman concerned with her daughter's privacy, okay, And she
[49:49] Speaker 1: busts in again with her daughter into the precinct and
[49:52] Speaker 1: the non famous sister and leave the child at home again.
[49:57] Speaker 4: Does the daughter have to go back to the police.
[50:00] Speaker 1: It's nuts.
[50:01] Speaker 2: So then she wants to press charges. She's done, let's
[50:05] Speaker 2: go all the way. Something has to be done. So
[50:08] Speaker 2: now we're in a room with a camera and Barbara's
[50:10] Speaker 2: talking in court through a TV screen and then Chelsea's
[50:13] Speaker 2: being videotaped here and basically she's like, he touched me,
[50:17] Speaker 2: he kissed me, and you know, she drew in a
[50:20] Speaker 2: drawing that she made for Benson where he touched and
[50:23] Speaker 2: kissed her. And I really like Barbara talking to kids.
[50:27] Speaker 2: And then Tambour lawyer, his name is Lester, Hello, Lester
[50:31] Speaker 2: than molester, and so he calls her a good girl.
[50:35] Speaker 1: Disgusting.
[50:36] Speaker 2: I hate that, and he's implying that the mom is
[50:38] Speaker 2: telling her what to say. And Catherine's now on the
[50:41] Speaker 2: stand and she's explaining how Chelsea came to her and
[50:44] Speaker 2: said her vagina her and that daddy played with her
[50:46] Speaker 2: down there, and Benson's like staring down Frank. She hates him,
[50:50] Speaker 2: and Catherine's like, yeah, this sucks. I don't want this
[50:52] Speaker 2: to be true. I don't you know that my spouse
[50:54] Speaker 2: would do this, especially after sleeping with my teen's sister.
[50:57] Speaker 2: And it's like objection relevance and it's like, hello, a
[51:01] Speaker 2: pattern of being a pedophile, you weirdo. The judge allows it.
[51:05] Speaker 2: He was her brother in law and knew her since
[51:07] Speaker 2: she was a toddler. The connection is obsession with both
[51:10] Speaker 2: of them around the same age. And then she talks
[51:13] Speaker 2: about grooming, and then Lester says, move to strike an
[51:16] Speaker 2: alienated wife is not an expert witness, and that is
[51:20] Speaker 2: like a pretty sick line. So then Barbara does a
[51:23] Speaker 2: good job. But now it's time for cross. So he
[51:26] Speaker 2: starts by saying that he was always a fan of
[51:28] Speaker 2: her being an actress, and he says, like, you know
[51:30] Speaker 2: all the things you're talking about with Frank, huggs, kisses, tickles,
[51:34] Speaker 2: that's normal dad stuff. And she goes, sure, but I
[51:36] Speaker 2: have a son. He never touches or plays with him.
[51:38] Speaker 2: And he then implies it's revenge for this relationship and
[51:41] Speaker 2: the relationship with Rose and she's like, yeah, I hate him.
[51:45] Speaker 1: I'm angry at him.
[51:46] Speaker 2: This isn't like why I took her to the doctor, Like,
[51:49] Speaker 2: I don't know why you're trying to connect this and
[51:51] Speaker 2: there's no connecting. And then not famous sister is watching
[51:54] Speaker 2: in the galley and he shows her a porcelain figurine
[51:57] Speaker 2: she sent to Frank and it's a woman with her
[51:59] Speaker 2: heart being ripped out and there's like blood all over
[52:01] Speaker 2: and it's like, okay, so she sent him a statue like,
[52:03] Speaker 2: I don't think it's that crazy. She was left for
[52:06] Speaker 2: her teen's sister, Like, I just don't understand why she's.
[52:09] Speaker 4: Not allowed to be pissed.
[52:11] Speaker 1: Yep.
[52:12] Speaker 2: The way they're spinning this is so nuts to me.
[52:14] Speaker 2: I'm sure she wanted revenge, but it doesn't mean she
[52:16] Speaker 2: would do this to Chelsea, you know. And he goes
[52:19] Speaker 2: But here we are, and it's like everyone is sad.
[52:22] Speaker 2: But now the nanny's on the stand and she lies
[52:24] Speaker 2: for Frank. She says that all they did was play chess,
[52:27] Speaker 2: and she talks about meditation.
[52:28] Speaker 4: This is probably why they did the Tibet stuff.
[52:30] Speaker 2: So she meditates and she focuses on the present, not
[52:33] Speaker 2: the past, and so she can't really attest to anything
[52:36] Speaker 2: she said to Finn at all and doesn't remember anything
[52:40] Speaker 2: the tights nothing like, you know, she's like that girl
[52:42] Speaker 2: loves her father. And now they're in the hallway and
[52:45] Speaker 2: the non famous sister goes, that's it. Frank gets what
[52:47] Speaker 2: he wants because everything's for sale, and Barba is like,
[52:51] Speaker 2: she's Tibetan for all we know, he talked to the
[52:54] Speaker 2: fucking dolly Lama and it's like such a crux of
[52:56] Speaker 2: this episode. So then Benson stops and goes, hold on,
[53:00] Speaker 2: what do you mean? He always gets what he wants,
[53:02] Speaker 2: and she is like, connections, fame, people bend the rules
[53:05] Speaker 2: for him, and she's pissed that she you know that,
[53:07] Speaker 2: like Chelsea is in this type of situation. She's like Catherine,
[53:11] Speaker 2: what the fuck? Why would you do this? And Catherine's like, well,
[53:14] Speaker 2: what about me? And she's like, he made you a star.
[53:18] Speaker 2: You actually believe that people can think that you didn't
[53:20] Speaker 2: know what kind of man he was, and Catherine is stunned.
[53:24] Speaker 2: The detectives in Barba are uncomfortable to witness this, and
[53:28] Speaker 2: so now we're at work, there's so many character witnesses,
[53:31] Speaker 2: like it sucks, like oh, he's the best. She's crazy,
[53:35] Speaker 2: he's a national treasure and Rollins just doesn't see it,
[53:39] Speaker 2: and Finn goes he is guilty. Murphy asks to talk
[53:43] Speaker 2: to Rollin's alone in the office and basically confronts her
[53:48] Speaker 2: about her pick me vibes. So why are you protecting
[53:50] Speaker 2: Frank and she's like, I don't like to see innocent
[53:53] Speaker 2: men get railroaded. But then she brings up the music
[53:56] Speaker 2: teacher and that was Billy Porter and he didn't do
[53:59] Speaker 2: anything wrong. So she's like, well, why are you even
[54:01] Speaker 2: asking me? And he says, you've had complicated relationships with
[54:05] Speaker 2: older male mentors Atlanta Cragan. She says, what was so
[54:08] Speaker 2: complicated with Craigan and Murphy responds that they found a
[54:12] Speaker 2: dead hooker in his bed. You tell me, and she's like,
[54:15] Speaker 2: he was set up and then he says, probably how
[54:18] Speaker 2: about your dad and she goes, yeah, he did a
[54:20] Speaker 2: little gambling.
[54:21] Speaker 4: He goes, did he get into trouble?
[54:22] Speaker 2: She says, yeah, but mostly with my mom, who wrote
[54:25] Speaker 2: his ass and nagged him until he had to leave,
[54:27] Speaker 2: and he asks if she has a blind spot when
[54:29] Speaker 2: it comes to men in power, and she is pissed.
[54:32] Speaker 2: She has a pissed soft face and says nothing. If
[54:36] Speaker 2: a dude I casually fucked then then impregnated me said
[54:39] Speaker 2: this to me, I would murder him.
[54:41] Speaker 1: Ah. I don't know if she's been Yeah, I don't
[54:44] Speaker 1: think he's impregnated her yet I can't believe she fucked him.
[54:47] Speaker 2: After this, I was pissed, Well, do you have an
[54:51] Speaker 2: issue with men in power?
[54:52] Speaker 1: Fuck me? Proves his point, like she proves it, like,
[54:56] Speaker 1: oh my god, all right, Frank's on the stage and
[55:00] Speaker 1: he's like, listen, the bitch is old.
[55:03] Speaker 4: She's mad.
[55:03] Speaker 2: She's old. You know, she was my muse and now
[55:05] Speaker 2: she has to do old hag parts. And it is
[55:08] Speaker 2: what it is. She's lying about me being a pedophile.
[55:12] Speaker 2: I'm a good guy. And you know what, Catherine, I
[55:14] Speaker 2: know it's been hard for you. This is like really hard,
[55:17] Speaker 2: but it's sad you had to drag Chelsea into this.
[55:21] Speaker 2: I love my child and I would do nothing to
[55:23] Speaker 2: harm her. And this is you know, this charge is
[55:26] Speaker 2: out there and that's the worst thing for me. This
[55:29] Speaker 2: is bad for me.
[55:30] Speaker 1: And he does a whole monologue, but he plays dressed
[55:33] Speaker 1: up with his daughter.
[55:34] Speaker 2: She's a brilliant actor. She's playing a part that's just
[55:38] Speaker 2: written by her mother, and that's the issue. It's so rehearsed,
[55:42] Speaker 2: and then apologizes to Catherine Benson scoffs, I can't believe
[55:46] Speaker 2: there's no objection, but I guess we have to watch
[55:48] Speaker 2: Bradley Woodford work like there's a reason he's here. And
[55:51] Speaker 2: he's like, I would never hurt my daughter, and again
[55:53] Speaker 2: being weird, why would I risk everything that I've accomplished
[55:57] Speaker 2: or I'm not a pedophile, So I would never do that,
[56:00] Speaker 2: whether I've accomplished a lot or not, you know what
[56:02] Speaker 2: I mean.
[56:03] Speaker 1: And also it's like nobody asks themselves that because they
[56:06] Speaker 1: know they're not because they've accomplished so much, they're not
[56:08] Speaker 1: gonna get punished. I don't think they're all worried about
[56:10] Speaker 1: risking their accomplishments. There. They want to see how far
[56:13] Speaker 1: they can go a lot of the time, Yeah, yeah,
[56:17] Speaker 1: so whatever, and he goes, I'm not a pedophile.
[56:23] Speaker 2: Murphy goes, fuck, you know, that was great acting. That's
[56:27] Speaker 2: better acting than on any of his shows. He fucking
[56:30] Speaker 2: charmed them, and Barbara goes, don't worry. When I get
[56:32] Speaker 2: done with him, it won't matter, and then Benson's like
[56:35] Speaker 2: Mavis the middle sister wasn't there. I'm gonna go talk
[56:37] Speaker 2: to her. So they go to Catherine's apartment. She didn't
[56:40] Speaker 2: want to go to court because she didn't want to
[56:41] Speaker 2: keep hearing Frank slies. So she was twelve when him
[56:44] Speaker 2: and Catherine got married. And then she sits down and
[56:47] Speaker 2: after a few leading questions, finally gets to like, hey,
[56:50] Speaker 2: did Frank do something to you? And she doesn't. She
[56:53] Speaker 2: says it doesn't even matter if he did. He's getting
[56:54] Speaker 2: away with everything, and Benson goes, he doesn't have to.
[56:57] Speaker 2: You love Chelsea, protect her. You can protect her and
[57:00] Speaker 2: court on the stand, and she's like so many his
[57:02] Speaker 2: lawyers can call me crazy and ridicule me. No thanks,
[57:05] Speaker 2: And Benson's eyeliner is so perfect and awesome in the scene, smoldering.
[57:09] Speaker 2: And then we see her on the news style program
[57:11] Speaker 2: Mavis the non famous sister. I guess, yeah, So she's
[57:15] Speaker 2: wearing all red and she's doing an interview. She goes,
[57:18] Speaker 2: I've been dealing with this for eighteen years, and she
[57:21] Speaker 2: explains that when she was thirteen that Frank gave her
[57:24] Speaker 2: a part in one of his shows and if she
[57:26] Speaker 2: did well, she could do more because after she taped
[57:28] Speaker 2: the episode, she was at a party at one of
[57:30] Speaker 2: Frank's producer's houses and there was a bunch of famous
[57:34] Speaker 2: actors there a lot of attention, and right away he's like,
[57:37] Speaker 2: you want to go in the hot tub, and she's
[57:39] Speaker 2: struggling to speak. Her eyes are getting glassy as she
[57:41] Speaker 2: explains that he put his hands under her bathing suit,
[57:44] Speaker 2: inside of her and then raped her and said, how
[57:47] Speaker 2: all this? And then he said all his leading ladies
[57:50] Speaker 2: got their roles this way. And she was thirteen and
[57:53] Speaker 2: believed him, and Catherine loved him, and he took care
[57:55] Speaker 2: of her whole family, and she saw it happen with Rose,
[57:59] Speaker 2: and she tried to warn but Rose kept saying that
[58:01] Speaker 2: you're just jealous. And it's like, of what, I guess
[58:04] Speaker 2: he's famous. I'm like of a like not I mean,
[58:06] Speaker 2: Bradley Whitford is hot, but like this guy is not hot.
[58:10] Speaker 1: I like, you know what I.
[58:11] Speaker 2: Mean, m liked Why would Mavis be so jealous of Rose?
[58:17] Speaker 2: It's like such manipulation and stuff. But yeah, but then
[58:21] Speaker 2: and so basically, she also didn't want Catherine to know,
[58:24] Speaker 2: and then Catherine didn't want to know. And then she
[58:27] Speaker 2: says she saw the photos of Rose and she found that,
[58:30] Speaker 2: and she's the one that leaked them.
[58:31] Speaker 4: She's like, I had to do something.
[58:33] Speaker 2: He won't stop, he's hurting my niece, and everyone just
[58:36] Speaker 2: looked the other way. She's fully crying. Now, all those
[58:39] Speaker 2: people that sat in silence and watched our Frank's accomplices,
[58:43] Speaker 2: If you think talent negates responsibility, you're just as guilty
[58:47] Speaker 2: as Frank. And she doesn't want to be one of
[58:49] Speaker 2: those people anymore. She didn't make it up, she didn't
[58:52] Speaker 2: imagine it, and he knows what he did. And she
[58:54] Speaker 2: says this looking directly into the camera. So now we're
[58:57] Speaker 2: in chambers and Lester's like, hey, my my dude can't
[59:00] Speaker 2: get a fair trial. And the judge goes, I don't care.
[59:02] Speaker 2: Barba's gonna cross examine like we're doing it, and he goes, well, actually,
[59:05] Speaker 2: I don't even think my client's going to be here,
[59:07] Speaker 2: and she's like, okay, well he can be found guilty
[59:09] Speaker 2: and of sentia, like I don't give a fuck, but
[59:10] Speaker 2: produce him. Where is he And he's like I don't
[59:13] Speaker 2: think I can. So he's fled the fucking country and
[59:17] Speaker 2: Barbara goes, well, I'm willing to wave cross and goes
[59:20] Speaker 2: straight to summation, and Barbara turns and says, and I
[59:23] Speaker 2: won't imply him fleeing is proof of guilt because that
[59:26] Speaker 2: would be wrong. Right, So the trial's going on, and
[59:29] Speaker 2: now tomorrow's in the office. Frank turned up and he's
[59:32] Speaker 2: in fucking France. Rollin's being a fucking idiot, says, the
[59:36] Speaker 2: court has his passport. How did he fly? It's like
[59:39] Speaker 2: he's rich, you dumb bitch. Private jet, private jet, dual citizenship.
[59:44] Speaker 2: So he has dual citizenship, and Finn says, live from Paris,
[59:47] Speaker 2: and yeah, he's doing an interview. He says, they have
[59:50] Speaker 2: a vendetta. Everyone's jealous of me. And it's like, you
[59:53] Speaker 2: are fucking your wife's teen daughter, I mean, sister, all
[59:57] Speaker 2: of it.
[59:57] Speaker 1: Everyone. I don't know what to say, the sister less
[1:00:00] Speaker 1: than the daughter, Like what the fuck?
[1:00:02] Speaker 2: He goes A man can be accused with no evidence
[1:00:05] Speaker 2: and vilified. And it's like your pube was found, you
[1:00:08] Speaker 2: lied about being in the laundry room. And then Rose
[1:00:11] Speaker 2: speaks and goes, it's not true. If those things were true,
[1:00:14] Speaker 2: I would not be here. Frank is an artist and
[1:00:17] Speaker 2: my hero, and Murphy goes, ugh, this is a sideshow nightmare.
[1:00:21] Speaker 2: But we're back in court. He is found guilty and
[1:00:24] Speaker 2: the press is, you know, gonna be all over like
[1:00:27] Speaker 2: the women, and so they're gonna do an escort.
[1:00:29] Speaker 1: So Murphy gets them an escort.
[1:00:31] Speaker 2: They help him get like into the building, the apartment building,
[1:00:35] Speaker 2: and Catherine thanks Benson and it seems like legit and
[1:00:38] Speaker 2: she goes, and then Benson says, just take care of
[1:00:40] Speaker 2: your daughter, and she does a little interview while holding
[1:00:43] Speaker 2: Chelsea's hand.
[1:00:44] Speaker 1: Again, let the girl be I just I can't.
[1:00:50] Speaker 2: So basically Catherine goes, you know, he's a convicted felon
[1:00:53] Speaker 2: in the eyes of the court, and we want privacy,
[1:00:56] Speaker 2: and Benson and Chelsea make intense eye contact while Benson
[1:01:00] Speaker 2: it talks about her family tragedy with Amorrow. She's like
[1:01:02] Speaker 2: looking at this girl while talking shit about her. So
[1:01:05] Speaker 2: it's like, if he's a peto, it's good he's gone.
[1:01:07] Speaker 2: And if it's fake, then Chelsea lives with a full
[1:01:09] Speaker 2: blown narcissist that told her to lie. And she says,
[1:01:13] Speaker 2: either way, God help that child. And then it's like
[1:01:15] Speaker 2: just a close up of Chelsea's face with flashes from
[1:01:18] Speaker 2: all the media cameras on her little sad face and
[1:01:21] Speaker 2: that's stick wolf baby, And obviously I can't.
[1:01:25] Speaker 4: I can't. I want to know what you have to say.
[1:01:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, I swore that this girl, Chelsea, who's played by
[1:01:32] Speaker 1: an actress named Claire Foley, she just seems so familiar
[1:01:36] Speaker 1: to me, like I'd seen her in another SVU, but
[1:01:37] Speaker 1: this is the only one she's done. But I'm looking
[1:01:40] Speaker 1: out for her. I feel like she's gonna she didn't
[1:01:43] Speaker 1: see her more stuff. Yeah, she was really great. Okay,
[1:01:53] Speaker 1: So obviously, very obviously this is based on Woody Allen.
[1:01:59] Speaker 1: It's kind of wild. The show was on air for
[1:02:01] Speaker 1: fifteen years before they fucked with the Woody Allen stuff
[1:02:06] Speaker 1: because all the Woody Allen stuff really like went down
[1:02:10] Speaker 1: previous to the show even coming on the air. But
[1:02:14] Speaker 1: then I would say around the time of this episode,
[1:02:17] Speaker 1: which is what year again, twenty fourteen, is when a
[1:02:20] Speaker 1: lot of stuff kicked back up. So I think that's
[1:02:22] Speaker 1: why they're tackling it at this time. So Woody Allen
[1:02:26] Speaker 1: obviously fame director. He was forty five.
[1:02:29] Speaker 2: Married his stepdaughter, and everyone's okay with it. It's crazy,
[1:02:34] Speaker 2: sorry to scream, but yeah, it's upsetting.
[1:02:36] Speaker 1: Yes, yes, he was forty five and nineteen eighty when
[1:02:40] Speaker 1: he started dating Mia Farrow, who was thirty five, and
[1:02:43] Speaker 1: Mia Faraoh had previously been married to Frank Sinatra for
[1:02:46] Speaker 1: two years. She had previously been married to a man
[1:02:49] Speaker 1: named Andre Previn, and she had six kids with Andre Previn,
[1:02:54] Speaker 1: three biological children, three adopted, including sun Ye Previn, who
[1:02:58] Speaker 1: was adopted from Korea. Sun Yi's like background in Korea
[1:03:02] Speaker 1: is like very like fuzzy, like nobody really knows. Like
[1:03:07] Speaker 1: she was apparently found on the street and then was
[1:03:08] Speaker 1: taken to an orphanage. She doesn't really have a lot
[1:03:11] Speaker 1: of memory about her mother, but like she says, me
[1:03:14] Speaker 1: and Pharah would always be like, tell everyone your mom
[1:03:16] Speaker 1: was a prostitute, and like tell everyone about your hard beginnings,
[1:03:18] Speaker 1: and like she didn't really want to do that because
[1:03:20] Speaker 1: she didn't have those memories. But she it's it's a
[1:03:25] Speaker 1: little bit weird because they don't really know Suni's actual age,
[1:03:30] Speaker 1: Like they can like sort of date it that she
[1:03:34] Speaker 1: was between five and seven when Mia adopted her, and
[1:03:38] Speaker 1: so I think they would say six, but like her
[1:03:39] Speaker 1: age is a little bit like up for debate. So
[1:03:43] Speaker 1: when Woody Allen and Mia Farrow got together, she adopted.
[1:03:47] Speaker 1: She also had two adopted children, Dylan and Moses, who
[1:03:52] Speaker 1: would he then co adopted in nineteen ninety one, but
[1:03:55] Speaker 1: they were previously adopted by Mia Farrow. So Woody Allen
[1:03:58] Speaker 1: and Mia Farah had one by logical child together, Satchel,
[1:04:02] Speaker 1: who was known today as Ronan Pharaoh, who many people,
[1:04:06] Speaker 1: including Ronan himself joke, is not actually Woody Farah Alan's son,
[1:04:11] Speaker 1: and is actually Frank Sinatra's son, to whom Mia Farah
[1:04:14] Speaker 1: was briefly married from sixty six to sixty eight. Even
[1:04:17] Speaker 1: Mia Farah herself told Danity Fair he could be Sinatra's child,
[1:04:20] Speaker 1: saying they never really broke up, so they were clearly
[1:04:23] Speaker 1: having like affairs after they were not married anymore. Ronan
[1:04:27] Speaker 1: was born in nineteen eighty seven, which was smack in
[1:04:29] Speaker 1: the middle of her relationship with Woody Allen and Woody
[1:04:32] Speaker 1: Allen's like, I like to think he's my son.
[1:04:34] Speaker 4: Is it possibly? He's not sure anyway.
[1:04:37] Speaker 1: When Alan and Farah got together, sun Yee Previn was
[1:04:41] Speaker 1: ten years old, like I said, her mother had adopted
[1:04:44] Speaker 1: her from Korea at age five or six. According to
[1:04:46] Speaker 1: Sun Yee, they her and her mother were like oil
[1:04:49] Speaker 1: and water, like she doesn't remember feeling any maternal feelings
[1:04:53] Speaker 1: from Mia Pharaoh. She has really nothing good to say
[1:04:56] Speaker 1: about growing up with her as a mother. She says
[1:04:58] Speaker 1: she and her adopted siblings were treat like maids. They
[1:05:01] Speaker 1: did the shopping, the cooking, the cleaning, and did a lot.
[1:05:04] Speaker 1: They were really self sufficient and just did like a
[1:05:06] Speaker 1: lot of stuff for the family. And she doesn't speak
[1:05:11] Speaker 1: fondly of her mom. I mean, she has said stuff
[1:05:14] Speaker 1: like I'm grateful obviously that she adopted me from an
[1:05:17] Speaker 1: orphanage and like gave me a better life, but like
[1:05:20] Speaker 1: she did not feel a lot of parental warmth from
[1:05:23] Speaker 1: Mia Pharaoh and didn't feel like they had like a
[1:05:25] Speaker 1: great connection. Moses also later on described some of the
[1:05:30] Speaker 1: treatment of himself and his siblings as abuse, so it
[1:05:34] Speaker 1: was not like, you know, she all together. Mia Pharaoh
[1:05:38] Speaker 1: has fourteen kids, yeah, and I believe four of them
[1:05:44] Speaker 1: are biological and the other ten are adopted. And she
[1:05:49] Speaker 1: adopted a few kids who were like a couple of
[1:05:51] Speaker 1: the kids she adopted were blind or had other like
[1:05:55] Speaker 1: health problems, and so she like one was paraplegic. So
[1:05:58] Speaker 1: she was really like to adopt children that felt like
[1:06:02] Speaker 1: were you know, needed help and that this was like
[1:06:05] Speaker 1: a big a passion of hers was adopting children. And
[1:06:09] Speaker 1: you know, three of these children are no longer living.
[1:06:12] Speaker 1: One took their own life, another died of heart failure,
[1:06:15] Speaker 1: but Moses suggests that that was actually self inflicted from
[1:06:19] Speaker 1: a pill overdose. And then Lark, one of her daughters,
[1:06:21] Speaker 1: died in poverty of AIDS related pneumonia after battling addiction.
[1:06:26] Speaker 1: So sadly, yeah, three of these children are no longer alive.
[1:06:30] Speaker 1: And then during Pharaoh and Allen's relationship, they never lived together.
[1:06:35] Speaker 1: They lived in apartments across Central Park from each other,
[1:06:37] Speaker 1: like she lived on Central Park West, he lived on
[1:06:39] Speaker 1: Fifth Avenue. So soun Yee claims that he was never
[1:06:44] Speaker 1: like a father to her. He had no clothes at
[1:06:46] Speaker 1: their house, not a toothbrush, He never adopted them. He is,
[1:06:50] Speaker 1: in her mind, her mother's boyfriend. She said she didn't
[1:06:55] Speaker 1: even know him very well and didn't like him. And
[1:06:58] Speaker 1: then it wasn't until when she was in eleventh grade
[1:07:01] Speaker 1: that they started going to Knix games together, which apparently
[1:07:04] Speaker 1: was encouraged by Mia Farroh, who said that you know,
[1:07:07] Speaker 1: Sunny was shy and had like you know, like like
[1:07:10] Speaker 1: they wanted her to get out a little bit more,
[1:07:12] Speaker 1: and that he was always looking for someone to go
[1:07:14] Speaker 1: to basketball games with. So apparently because of her age thing,
[1:07:20] Speaker 1: and also because she has a learning disability that she
[1:07:23] Speaker 1: admits to, but apparently in a lot of press, Mia
[1:07:26] Speaker 1: Farah would make it seem like sun Nye was really
[1:07:29] Speaker 1: really mentally disabled. And she's like, she made me seem like,
[1:07:33] Speaker 1: I mean, she uses the R word. She's like, she
[1:07:35] Speaker 1: made me seem like that in the press all the time,
[1:07:38] Speaker 1: and like that's not who I am. I'm not like,
[1:07:39] Speaker 1: I'm not like slow. I do have some spelling like
[1:07:43] Speaker 1: learning disabilities, like you know, probably just lexis. I don't
[1:07:46] Speaker 1: know if she she specifies, but she's like, but I'm
[1:07:48] Speaker 1: not like, this is a woman who went to college,
[1:07:51] Speaker 1: went to grad school at Columbia. Like she's she's like,
[1:07:54] Speaker 1: I'm smart, you know, I don't. I didn't like she
[1:07:57] Speaker 1: classified me. She characterized me as like, you know, needing
[1:08:01] Speaker 1: mental help for a lot of my life. And so
[1:08:03] Speaker 1: when she does start hanging out with him, some of
[1:08:05] Speaker 1: the accounts say she's nineteen or twenty, even though she's
[1:08:07] Speaker 1: in eleventh grade. So like, I mean, maybe she's been
[1:08:10] Speaker 1: held back because of some of the like learning disabilities
[1:08:13] Speaker 1: or something.
[1:08:13] Speaker 4: But she's apparently.
[1:08:15] Speaker 1: Nineteen or so when they even first start hanging out
[1:08:18] Speaker 1: going to the basketball games. Okay, and then at nineteen
[1:08:21] Speaker 1: ninety one, she's twenty one and she's a freshman in college.
[1:08:24] Speaker 1: So that's what I'm just trying to like figure out
[1:08:26] Speaker 1: the timeline year because I was really confused because freshman
[1:08:29] Speaker 1: in college. To me, I was seventeen When I was
[1:08:30] Speaker 1: a freshman, you're seventeen or eighteen usually, But she's already
[1:08:33] Speaker 1: like twenty one as a freshman in college because I
[1:08:35] Speaker 1: don't know, maybe she took time off, who knows, But
[1:08:39] Speaker 1: that is when they started the affair, when she was
[1:08:42] Speaker 1: a freshman in college. It was sometime that ball. She says,
[1:08:44] Speaker 1: she came home from college, they were watching a movie.
[1:08:47] Speaker 1: He kissed her. She was like excited, but she had
[1:08:50] Speaker 1: never really seen him that way. And now and now
[1:08:52] Speaker 1: she says she fell for really really fast. So she's
[1:08:55] Speaker 1: twenty one, he's fifty six. They're very vague, quote unquote
[1:08:59] Speaker 1: on one thing turned sexual. Okay, So what I find
[1:09:05] Speaker 1: very strange is that in December of nineteen ninety one,
[1:09:11] Speaker 1: the affair with Sunie had already begun. That's when he
[1:09:15] Speaker 1: officially adopts Moses and Dylan, and like he's telling Sun
[1:09:19] Speaker 1: Yi Oh, things with me and I have been like
[1:09:21] Speaker 1: over for a long time, like we're really not you know,
[1:09:24] Speaker 1: we're going through the motions. We're not really in love anymore.
[1:09:27] Speaker 1: And like why are you going through the motions of
[1:09:31] Speaker 1: adopting these children if you are sleeping with their sister?
[1:09:35] Speaker 1: Like do you know what I mean? Like that's really
[1:09:38] Speaker 1: weird to me. It's like I would have pushed that off.
[1:09:40] Speaker 1: I would have been like, oh, I can't sign right now.
[1:09:42] Speaker 1: I don't know, Like he's like, and you know, so
[1:09:46] Speaker 1: in January of nineteen ninety two, like right after he
[1:09:49] Speaker 1: finalizes the adoption of these two other children of me
[1:09:52] Speaker 1: of MIA's she Mia Faroh, discovers a stack of polaroids
[1:09:57] Speaker 1: in whaty Allen's apartment of SUNNYI, in which she is
[1:10:01] Speaker 1: fully nude, spread eagle that he says later he took
[1:10:05] Speaker 1: those pictures because she was interested in modeling. I don't
[1:10:09] Speaker 1: know how many modeling agencies want to see full frontal
[1:10:13] Speaker 1: in order to you know, sign you we have to
[1:10:15] Speaker 1: rewatch that model, Docancy if that was ever like I
[1:10:20] Speaker 1: don't think that's a thing. But he also describes the
[1:10:23] Speaker 1: pictures as erotic and not pornographic. I don't fucking know
[1:10:26] Speaker 1: what to say, but when she sees those pictures, mea
[1:10:29] Speaker 1: Pharaoh fucking loses it, obviously, and she ended their relationship
[1:10:36] Speaker 1: after it had been eleven to twelve years. And again,
[1:10:38] Speaker 1: Woody Allen and soonior Y are like, but their relationship
[1:10:40] Speaker 1: had been over for years. Blah blah blah. So there's
[1:10:44] Speaker 1: all this family drama at the time over the Sunye
[1:10:47] Speaker 1: and Woody Allen affair. Mea Pharaoh sends Woody Allen what
[1:10:51] Speaker 1: is called a got what is referred to in a
[1:10:53] Speaker 1: lot of the press as a Gothic valentine, which is
[1:10:56] Speaker 1: like a photo collage of the family and pin going
[1:11:00] Speaker 1: through all of the kid's hearts and a knife going
[1:11:03] Speaker 1: through her heart. So that's kind of where they get
[1:11:05] Speaker 1: this statue thing from the episode. Okay, so she does
[1:11:08] Speaker 1: send that, and she apparently kicks sun Ye out of
[1:11:13] Speaker 1: the house.
[1:11:14] Speaker 4: She slaps sun Yie a bunch of times.
[1:11:17] Speaker 1: Her Sunny Like is a little bit freaking out because
[1:11:21] Speaker 1: her dad is going to cut her off financially too.
[1:11:23] Speaker 1: Like Andrea Previn is like you're dead to me. I'm
[1:11:25] Speaker 1: not paying for college anymore. And Mia is telling Woody
[1:11:29] Speaker 1: Allen that Sunni is suicidal, which Sunny says is not
[1:11:32] Speaker 1: true at all, so I don't. I also didn't realize
[1:11:37] Speaker 1: ever in all the coverage of this that I've ever read,
[1:11:39] Speaker 1: that at the same time that this is all going on,
[1:11:42] Speaker 1: Mia Parah is actively acting in a Woody Allen movie
[1:11:46] Speaker 1: called Husbands and Wives, Like they are on set finishing
[1:11:49] Speaker 1: a movie together while this is all happening, which is
[1:11:52] Speaker 1: what fucking nuts. Yes, So over that summer, like so
[1:11:59] Speaker 1: now it's summer of ninety one, I get oh no, sorry,
[1:12:03] Speaker 1: So summer of ninety two, Sunny goes to be a
[1:12:05] Speaker 1: camp counselor in Maine, but she gets fired because she's
[1:12:10] Speaker 1: not connecting with the kids, I guess. And she keeps
[1:12:13] Speaker 1: getting phone calls from a man claiming to be mister Simon,
[1:12:16] Speaker 1: but it's Woody Allen's like code name, right, so he
[1:12:19] Speaker 1: keeps calling her at camp. He says he was just
[1:12:21] Speaker 1: calling her to make sure that she was financially okay,
[1:12:24] Speaker 1: because like her dad is cutting her off and like
[1:12:25] Speaker 1: who knows if me is giving her money whatever. So
[1:12:28] Speaker 1: then this all is going down in January, right, and
[1:12:31] Speaker 1: then the months after this is all just happening inside
[1:12:33] Speaker 1: the family that this has been discovered. And in August
[1:12:38] Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety two, eight months after the first you know,
[1:12:41] Speaker 1: polaroids are discovered, Mia Farrow alleges that Woody Allen has
[1:12:46] Speaker 1: molested their daughter, Dylan, who is aged seven, in a
[1:12:49] Speaker 1: crawl space in her home in Bridgewater, Connecticut. So, I mean,
[1:12:55] Speaker 1: the episode is really ripping it straight from the story.
[1:12:58] Speaker 1: She makes a video asking Dylan all these questions, and
[1:13:02] Speaker 1: a video that a lot of people think is a
[1:13:04] Speaker 1: smoking gun against Alan, but a lot of people think
[1:13:06] Speaker 1: is proof that Mia Farroll coached this young girl about
[1:13:09] Speaker 1: what to say. And Alan, of course thinks that Mia
[1:13:13] Speaker 1: Farroh concocted this whole charge to get back at him
[1:13:16] Speaker 1: for the Sunni affair. And weirdly, sun Yee says in
[1:13:21] Speaker 1: an interview many years later that she says that like
[1:13:25] Speaker 1: she thought this thing with what he was a fling.
[1:13:27] Speaker 1: She was like, I thought I was going to meet
[1:13:29] Speaker 1: somebody in college and like get a boyfriend. He was
[1:13:31] Speaker 1: telling me to sleep with people in college. Like I
[1:13:34] Speaker 1: just thought this was gonna be like a thing like
[1:13:38] Speaker 1: I didn't think this was gonna last, but they ended
[1:13:41] Speaker 1: up just getting thrown together during the chaos of this
[1:13:44] Speaker 1: molestation charge. So and like spoiler alert, they're still fucking
[1:13:50] Speaker 1: together today. It's been almost thirty years. So the case
[1:13:54] Speaker 1: is so chaotic, it's unfolding fast and furious in the press,
[1:13:58] Speaker 1: in the court of public opinion. Like a little over
[1:14:01] Speaker 1: a week after Dylan's alleged abuse, according to Alan, two
[1:14:04] Speaker 1: of me as lawyers, Alan Dershowitz and David Levitt floated
[1:14:08] Speaker 1: to him the idea of how about a five to
[1:14:11] Speaker 1: seven million dollar reconciliation like payment, just like a quick, immediate,
[1:14:15] Speaker 1: confidential payment to Mia and then we'll be done with this.
[1:14:18] Speaker 1: And I guess that same day he decided that he
[1:14:22] Speaker 1: thought his kids were unsafe being with this woman that
[1:14:24] Speaker 1: was coaching them into saying things like that, and he
[1:14:29] Speaker 1: sued me in New York State Supreme Court for custody
[1:14:32] Speaker 1: of Satchel aka Ronan, Dylan, and Moses, saying they were
[1:14:36] Speaker 1: unsafe with her and would be turned against him. I mean,
[1:14:40] Speaker 1: I'm sure he got an alienation lawyer, uh, as we
[1:14:44] Speaker 1: talked about in the episode alien but Fordstein, right, Yeah,
[1:14:50] Speaker 1: Dershowitz's I mean, he's all over the place. I don't
[1:14:52] Speaker 1: think he's ever doing anything good, So like shit is
[1:14:57] Speaker 1: just going down crazy. And so four days after he
[1:15:02] Speaker 1: sues for custody of these three children, he releases a
[1:15:05] Speaker 1: statement confirming his relationship with Sun Yee, confirming it's all
[1:15:08] Speaker 1: true and that he's in love with her, which Sun
[1:15:11] Speaker 1: ye herself took her by surprise. She's like, we had
[1:15:14] Speaker 1: not told each other that we loved each other like
[1:15:15] Speaker 1: in that way. But she said she was in love
[1:15:18] Speaker 1: with him from the first time they kissed, and I'm sorry,
[1:15:20] Speaker 1: I like sort of can't with that, but.
[1:15:22] Speaker 2: She well, like because she also said it was going
[1:15:24] Speaker 2: to be a fling. So was it going to be
[1:15:26] Speaker 2: a fling or yeah? I think the moment, yeah, she.
[1:15:30] Speaker 1: Said, like because he at the beginning, he was saying, like,
[1:15:33] Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to like hold you down,
[1:15:36] Speaker 1: go be with boys from school, do whatever. And I think,
[1:15:40] Speaker 1: like every minute that they were together, she says, she
[1:15:44] Speaker 1: just fell so hard and fast for him that him
[1:15:46] Speaker 1: even kissing her the first time, she knows how quiet
[1:15:49] Speaker 1: and like introverted he is, and so it was such
[1:15:52] Speaker 1: a big move for him to do that that that
[1:15:53] Speaker 1: like made her interested, and then she was like, we
[1:15:56] Speaker 1: were just so attracted to each other, like right, But
[1:15:59] Speaker 1: even though she said that none of that really existed
[1:16:01] Speaker 1: when she was a nineteen year old high school junior.
[1:16:04] Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what to make of
[1:16:06] Speaker 1: any of this. There's like so many different fucking things
[1:16:09] Speaker 1: that they're all like saying they're positive about. So meanwhile,
[1:16:14] Speaker 1: the shit is going on with Dylan's assault alleged assault,
[1:16:18] Speaker 1: and the Connecticut State's Attorney's office is investigating that because
[1:16:22] Speaker 1: it happened at this home in Bridgewater, Connecticut, in like
[1:16:24] Speaker 1: northwest Connecticut, so they investigated the allegation, but they did
[1:16:30] Speaker 1: not press charges against Woody Allen. And then Dylan was
[1:16:33] Speaker 1: referred to the Child Sexual Abuse Clinic at Yale New
[1:16:35] Speaker 1: Haven Hospital shout out where my brother did his residency.
[1:16:39] Speaker 4: And then in May of nineteen ninety.
[1:16:42] Speaker 1: Three, so this is from August to May, so like
[1:16:46] Speaker 1: eight months later. John Levenhal, the pediatrician who headed the
[1:16:49] Speaker 1: team at the clinic, concluded that Allan had not sexually
[1:16:52] Speaker 1: abused Dylan, and that she was emotionally unstable and her
[1:16:56] Speaker 1: mother had likely coached or influenced her testimony. According to
[1:17:00] Speaker 1: the report, Dylan's statements were inconsistence and lacked spontaneity. They
[1:17:05] Speaker 1: gave the impression of repeating something learned. The report also
[1:17:08] Speaker 1: mentioned that Dylan felt she had to solve her mother's problems.
[1:17:12] Speaker 1: It also indicated that the relationship between Pharaoh, Dylan and
[1:17:16] Speaker 1: Satchel was very disturbed and required immediate intensive psychotherapy. I
[1:17:20] Speaker 1: should also mention that there is a lot of talk
[1:17:23] Speaker 1: that Mia Farrow sort of favored her biological sons versus
[1:17:27] Speaker 1: her adopted daughters. So Dylan was just a couple of
[1:17:31] Speaker 1: years older than Satchel aka Ronan, and when he was born,
[1:17:35] Speaker 1: there's a lot of accounts that she was obsessed with him,
[1:17:38] Speaker 1: and that she kind of dropped Dylan, and that Dylan
[1:17:41] Speaker 1: was like upset that like her mom's attention completely went
[1:17:43] Speaker 1: to the younger brother, but that she would like lock
[1:17:46] Speaker 1: herself away in her bedroom for like days at a time,
[1:17:50] Speaker 1: just her and Satchel aka Ronan, like, you know, like
[1:17:54] Speaker 1: breastfeeding him. I mean, she says she was like she
[1:17:59] Speaker 1: says she was just recovering from a tough delivery, but
[1:18:03] Speaker 1: I don't know. So there's an implication among some accounts
[1:18:08] Speaker 1: that Dylan would kind of do anything to earn back
[1:18:10] Speaker 1: her mother's attention. I don't know if that's true. It's
[1:18:13] Speaker 1: all very fucked up also, But like then soun Yee says,
[1:18:18] Speaker 1: we were treated like we were treated like servants, like
[1:18:21] Speaker 1: the girls that were adopted, Like we had to do
[1:18:23] Speaker 1: all this like labor around the house and stuff, and
[1:18:25] Speaker 1: so like I don't know, who knows, I don't know.
[1:18:28] Speaker 1: Maybe she's saying that stuff manipulated from Ody Allen. I'm
[1:18:30] Speaker 1: literally you could this would be like, this could be
[1:18:33] Speaker 1: this case could be its own ten part podcast pretty much.
[1:18:36] Speaker 1: So if I'm not getting every single piece of information,
[1:18:39] Speaker 1: it's because we are limited on time here and I
[1:18:41] Speaker 1: don't have like a research staff. So a month after
[1:18:45] Speaker 1: this report is given by the Yale New Haven Clinic,
[1:18:52] Speaker 1: in a thirty three page decision, Judge Elliott wilk questioned
[1:18:55] Speaker 1: the work of the Yale group, calling it sanitized. He
[1:18:58] Speaker 1: also denied Alan's city request, as as well as any
[1:19:02] Speaker 1: visitation writes with Dylan. So Woody Allen appealed a year later,
[1:19:06] Speaker 1: and he lost that as well, and New York State
[1:19:10] Speaker 1: Child Welfare investigators completed a second inquiry into the case,
[1:19:14] Speaker 1: concluding that quote, no credible evidence was found that Dylan
[1:19:17] Speaker 1: had been abused or maltreated, So that's sort of like
[1:19:22] Speaker 1: what happens with that. A few years later, December twenty third,
[1:19:25] Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, Woody Allen, aged sixty two, and sun
[1:19:29] Speaker 1: Ye Previn, aged twenty seven, are married, and like I said,
[1:19:32] Speaker 1: they have a quiet they have a little like quiet
[1:19:35] Speaker 1: ceremony like I think courthouse, and then they are still
[1:19:38] Speaker 1: married almost thirty years later. They together have two adopted children,
[1:19:42] Speaker 1: because soun Ye finds having biological children to be vain
[1:19:45] Speaker 1: and egocentric. She has said so in twenty thirteen. So
[1:19:50] Speaker 1: then it's in ninety seven, this all like they get married,
[1:19:54] Speaker 1: and then it sort of did die down for a while,
[1:19:57] Speaker 1: like people did not talk about the case a lot
[1:20:01] Speaker 1: from for about fifteen years. And then in twenty thirteen
[1:20:05] Speaker 1: Dylan spoke out to Vanity Fair, and then in twenty
[1:20:08] Speaker 1: fourteen she did an op ed in the New York Times,
[1:20:11] Speaker 1: and in twenty seventeen, amidst them a lot of the
[1:20:13] Speaker 1: me Too movement, she did another op ed in the
[1:20:17] Speaker 1: LA Times where she was kind of like, wow, you
[1:20:18] Speaker 1: guys are all really giving it to Harvey Weinstein like
[1:20:21] Speaker 1: why is Woody Allan still allowed to make movies? Like
[1:20:24] Speaker 1: why is this man who Like I've been consistent in
[1:20:26] Speaker 1: my story for years, like I've always said, this is
[1:20:28] Speaker 1: what happened, And basically what she her account is that
[1:20:33] Speaker 1: on this day in nineteen ninety two, a ton of
[1:20:36] Speaker 1: people are at the house, various siblings, brothers and sisters,
[1:20:40] Speaker 1: a family friend, that family friend's three kids, the family
[1:20:43] Speaker 1: friends nanny, MIA's nanny. All these people are there, and
[1:20:47] Speaker 1: I think Mia and her family friend go out shopping
[1:20:50] Speaker 1: or something and they leave, but Woody is there, and
[1:20:56] Speaker 1: everybody knows that Woody is not allowed to be alone
[1:20:59] Speaker 1: with Dylan, because Villen has said for a long time
[1:21:02] Speaker 1: that people had noticed that he had a lot of
[1:21:04] Speaker 1: attention towards her, a lot of doting behavior, bouncing on
[1:21:07] Speaker 1: his lap like ways that he did not act towards
[1:21:10] Speaker 1: his other children, his other adopted children, or his biological children,
[1:21:15] Speaker 1: Like apparently him and Ronan had a relationship similar to
[1:21:18] Speaker 1: Mia and Sunyize, like they were kind of oil and water.
[1:21:20] Speaker 1: They never really clicked, and but he was super super
[1:21:24] Speaker 1: doting on Dylan and she didn't always like it, Okay,
[1:21:29] Speaker 1: And so then her claim is that on this day
[1:21:34] Speaker 1: when when Mia is out and all these people are around, though,
[1:21:37] Speaker 1: he brings her upstairs to this crawl space and tells
[1:21:42] Speaker 1: her to look at the toy train set and put
[1:21:46] Speaker 1: her on her stomach, and that he touched her vagina,
[1:21:49] Speaker 1: And she has said in interviews later, yeah, like he
[1:21:51] Speaker 1: touched my labia and my volva.
[1:21:53] Speaker 4: So that like, whereas the episode.
[1:21:56] Speaker 1: Gets into like a pube and all this other stuff,
[1:21:59] Speaker 1: I don't think that that was ever anything that came
[1:22:01] Speaker 1: up in this thing. But this is what Dylan's account is,
[1:22:05] Speaker 1: and that he told her if you are a good girl,
[1:22:08] Speaker 1: you can come to Paris with me, you can be
[1:22:10] Speaker 1: in one of my movies. Like a lot of the
[1:22:12] Speaker 1: same shit from the episode. So this is what she's
[1:22:18] Speaker 1: saying happened. So then in twenty eighteen, her brother Moses
[1:22:23] Speaker 1: comes forward with a blog post and he's defending Woody
[1:22:28] Speaker 1: Allen and he's painting a picture of a very sad
[1:22:31] Speaker 1: childhood under MIA's roof, claiming that she was extremely moody
[1:22:36] Speaker 1: and controlling. She often doled out huge punishments for minor infractions,
[1:22:40] Speaker 1: like she talks about sorry. Moses talks about like his
[1:22:45] Speaker 1: brother who was quadriplegic being left overnight in a shed
[1:22:48] Speaker 1: outside because of some little thing he did wrong. So
[1:22:53] Speaker 1: and in his blog he says, quote Mia told me
[1:22:56] Speaker 1: that she was the victim of attempted molestation within her
[1:22:58] Speaker 1: own family. Her brother, my uncle John, who visited us
[1:23:01] Speaker 1: many times when we were young, is currently in prison
[1:23:04] Speaker 1: on a conviction of multiple child molestation charges. My mother
[1:23:07] Speaker 1: has never publicly commented on this or expressed concern about
[1:23:11] Speaker 1: his victims. End quote. So, I mean Moses's blog is
[1:23:16] Speaker 1: like really interesting because he talks all about how he's
[1:23:19] Speaker 1: like there were so many people in the house. We
[1:23:22] Speaker 1: all knew that Wood he was not allowed to be
[1:23:24] Speaker 1: with Dylan. We would have noticed if they walked off together.
[1:23:27] Speaker 1: We were all watching movies, like he was there. He
[1:23:30] Speaker 1: walked in and out, he went to go take a walk.
[1:23:32] Speaker 1: I saw him the whole time, Like he's acting like
[1:23:35] Speaker 1: this didn't happen. And then there's but there's all kinds
[1:23:39] Speaker 1: of like different accounts from like Nanny's and friends and
[1:23:46] Speaker 1: people that were there saying they saw them come out
[1:23:48] Speaker 1: of the crawl space or that whatever he's saying. We
[1:23:51] Speaker 1: didn't even have a toy train set in the crawl space,
[1:23:53] Speaker 1: the crawl space didn't even have a floor, like it's
[1:23:56] Speaker 1: like it's like insulated, filled with spiders, Like, it's like
[1:24:00] Speaker 1: filled with mouse droppings. It's like a place where we
[1:24:02] Speaker 1: would hide and shit. It's like where my mom soars
[1:24:04] Speaker 1: her old clothes. It's not really like where you would
[1:24:06] Speaker 1: go play with someone. So I don't know he has
[1:24:09] Speaker 1: all these And then you know, of course Woody Allen
[1:24:11] Speaker 1: has put his own op eds in the New York
[1:24:13] Speaker 1: Times where he's like, says a lot like what the
[1:24:15] Speaker 1: character says, where he's like, why would I, under the
[1:24:18] Speaker 1: scrutiny of the sun Yi thing, put myself in a
[1:24:22] Speaker 1: position of molesting my daughter with all these people in
[1:24:27] Speaker 1: the home.
[1:24:28] Speaker 4: I've never done it.
[1:24:29] Speaker 1: I've never been accused of doing it previously, and I've
[1:24:31] Speaker 1: never done it since, So why would I this one
[1:24:35] Speaker 1: time have to do that. So that's his defense on himself.
[1:24:39] Speaker 1: But again it's been investigated, he's been cleared. Nothing's happened
[1:24:42] Speaker 1: now And in twenty eighteen, soon Ye did this big,
[1:24:46] Speaker 1: long interview with New York Magazine that I read for
[1:24:48] Speaker 1: this for this as well, where you know, she just
[1:24:52] Speaker 1: talks really regularly about their relationship and how they got together,
[1:24:56] Speaker 1: and the author talks about their way of being together
[1:25:00] Speaker 1: like very sweet and like tossling each other's hair, and
[1:25:03] Speaker 1: if he interrupts her, she goes, you're interrupting me, and like,
[1:25:06] Speaker 1: I don't know. At this point, she's a fifty something
[1:25:09] Speaker 1: year old woman. She's a mother of two. I believe
[1:25:12] Speaker 1: they both have they have two girls. Like, she has
[1:25:15] Speaker 1: not recognized that she was groomed in any way. She
[1:25:17] Speaker 1: has not said that, like, according to her, she was
[1:25:21] Speaker 1: of age the moment any kind of romance happened between
[1:25:27] Speaker 1: that and that.
[1:25:28] Speaker 2: He was like, because I think about Celine Dion and
[1:25:31] Speaker 2: it's like, listen, you guys could have loved each other
[1:25:33] Speaker 2: and had a long life. I think it's creepy with
[1:25:35] Speaker 2: like he knew you as a child and you got sorry,
[1:25:37] Speaker 2: Like it's fucking creepy, Like we're allowed to think it's
[1:25:39] Speaker 2: fucking creepy that he knew you as a ten year
[1:25:43] Speaker 2: old and that, and then I'm seeing your notes and
[1:25:47] Speaker 2: it's like, are those kids safe?
[1:25:49] Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, Because I'm seeing the Epstein stuff and he's
[1:25:54] Speaker 1: not sorry. I guess he's not sorry. And Woody and
[1:25:57] Speaker 1: Sunye are both in the Epstein files and what ell
[1:26:00] Speaker 1: And says, he is not sorry for his friendship with
[1:26:02] Speaker 1: child sex Driver or Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, listen, it's
[1:26:06] Speaker 1: like I don't even know a lot of Woody Allen movies.
[1:26:09] Speaker 1: We might need Casey on the mic here, but like
[1:26:11] Speaker 1: I've talked to Jared about this before, because Jared is
[1:26:13] Speaker 1: knows a lot of Woody Allen movies, and he's like,
[1:26:16] Speaker 1: so many of his movies are about older men being
[1:26:19] Speaker 1: with like younger women. It's just only seen Blue Jasmine.
[1:26:25] Speaker 1: I think I've only seen Blue Jasmine a match Point.
[1:26:27] Speaker 1: I think those might be the only two Woody Allen
[1:26:29] Speaker 1: movies I've seen.
[1:26:30] Speaker 6: I think the main movie where this comes up is
[1:26:32] Speaker 6: the movie Manhattan.
[1:26:34] Speaker 1: Yes, that's what Jared was saying.
[1:26:37] Speaker 6: Yeah, and in that one, he plays like a forty
[1:26:39] Speaker 6: year old guy dating a high schooler. But that's not
[1:26:42] Speaker 6: like the conflict of the movie. That's just like something
[1:26:44] Speaker 6: that's in the movie and everyone accepts it in the
[1:26:47] Speaker 6: world of the movie as like a good thing. It's
[1:26:52] Speaker 6: very strange.
[1:26:54] Speaker 4: Yeah, And like then look at Jerry Seinfeld.
[1:26:56] Speaker 1: I mean, like he was dating a high school senior
[1:26:59] Speaker 1: like so, so I like, I don't know, I think
[1:27:02] Speaker 1: that there's this romanticization I think of like teens in
[1:27:07] Speaker 1: New York City also that they're like older and like
[1:27:10] Speaker 1: wiser because they're city kids. And I think that Woody
[1:27:15] Speaker 1: Allen helped to perpetuate that. But you know, yeah, so
[1:27:18] Speaker 1: I mean, like Woody Allen talks about how on that
[1:27:22] Speaker 1: trip to like that to the house when when the
[1:27:24] Speaker 1: alleged sexual assault of Dylan happened, that he had given
[1:27:27] Speaker 1: Dylan a catalog and Moses and Satchel aka Ronan catalogs,
[1:27:33] Speaker 1: and that they had circled all like every toy in
[1:27:35] Speaker 1: the catalog and he was going to go back into
[1:27:37] Speaker 1: the city and buy them some toys from the catalog.
[1:27:39] Speaker 4: And then he's like, I never saw Dylan.
[1:27:42] Speaker 1: Again, like because then it all then it all came
[1:27:45] Speaker 1: to And I think that it was similar as well,
[1:27:48] Speaker 1: where Mia Paraoh didn't necessarily want to bring it to
[1:27:51] Speaker 1: the public, the stuff, but she had brought she brought
[1:27:54] Speaker 1: Dylan to her pediatrician, and the pediatrician is a mandated
[1:27:58] Speaker 1: reporter and had to report it and then that when
[1:28:00] Speaker 1: law enforcement got involved. So Mia Farah was like, I
[1:28:03] Speaker 1: didn't necessarily even want to do this, but then what
[1:28:05] Speaker 1: he Allen side is like, well, of course she did.
[1:28:07] Speaker 1: This happened like eight months after the SUNI thing, and
[1:28:10] Speaker 1: she's obviously furious about it and upset, and you know,
[1:28:14] Speaker 1: it's like one of the most fucked up stories of
[1:28:16] Speaker 1: our time, and that is treated like normal.
[1:28:20] Speaker 2: It's really weird and that like people are just they
[1:28:25] Speaker 2: ride hard for him.
[1:28:26] Speaker 1: Oh is he Midnight in Paris? I did see that? Yeah, yeah,
[1:28:32] Speaker 1: I haven't seen that one. Yeah. It's like a lot
[1:28:37] Speaker 1: of the people who have been in his movies were like,
[1:28:42] Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to know. We don't know all
[1:28:44] Speaker 1: the facts. Like they were very like kind of skirting
[1:28:47] Speaker 1: around it, like Scarlett Johansson, Blake Lively, all these actresses
[1:28:50] Speaker 1: that worked with him, and I mean probably actors as well.
[1:28:54] Speaker 4: I'm just thinking of the few that I just read
[1:28:55] Speaker 4: doing this research.
[1:28:57] Speaker 1: But then now people that are seeing him in the
[1:29:00] Speaker 1: I've seen files and him being unapologetic about Epstein are like,
[1:29:03] Speaker 1: I regret being in his Like all these actors are
[1:29:05] Speaker 1: coming out now and going and now I regret if
[1:29:07] Speaker 1: I had now then what I know now, like I
[1:29:09] Speaker 1: wouldn't have been in his movie. So I don't know
[1:29:11] Speaker 1: if he's gonna get more shit for just being friends
[1:29:14] Speaker 1: with Jeffrey Epstein. Even if he didn't know what Epstein
[1:29:16] Speaker 1: was doing and never went to the island, then he
[1:29:20] Speaker 1: is going to get for marrying his like wife's daughter.
[1:29:25] Speaker 1: I mean, Ronan Pharoh will say my dad is married
[1:29:29] Speaker 1: to my sister. That's fucked up. Like he's like, that's
[1:29:33] Speaker 1: morally fucked up. Whether you want to like pussy foot
[1:29:36] Speaker 1: around the fucking laws and who was what age? When
[1:29:39] Speaker 1: that's weird and that's a weird position that you've put
[1:29:42] Speaker 1: your other children into as well, you know, cause according
[1:29:46] Speaker 1: to Moses Mia, Pharaoh made all the kids like cut
[1:29:50] Speaker 1: off Woodie and said, you guys, he's evil, like made
[1:29:53] Speaker 1: them rehearse what they said about him, and that they
[1:29:56] Speaker 1: all and that It wasn't until later twenty eighteen where
[1:29:59] Speaker 1: Moses came out come to his dad's defense. I don't
[1:30:02] Speaker 1: know what's going on with Moses. I don't know, but
[1:30:04] Speaker 1: he his blog post is like definitely I remember reading
[1:30:08] Speaker 1: that in twenty eighteen sixty like eight years ago and
[1:30:10] Speaker 1: being like, whoa, this is like a perspective on this.
[1:30:14] Speaker 1: I hadn't read, you know, but who knows what he's
[1:30:17] Speaker 1: going through? Like I really don't know, I really don't
[1:30:19] Speaker 1: know what to say about this, but really fucked up
[1:30:24] Speaker 1: and really kind of like a lot of narcissists, like
[1:30:26] Speaker 1: you were saying in the episode, like focusing on themselves
[1:30:29] Speaker 1: and not on like the worldfare of these children. So
[1:30:33] Speaker 1: then that's that on whatdy Ellen, unless you have anything else,
[1:30:36] Speaker 1: Lisa that you want to add, Okay, And then obviously
[1:30:39] Speaker 1: the end of this episode throws a Roman Polanski twist
[1:30:42] Speaker 1: in at the end, which is interesting because Mia Farrow
[1:30:45] Speaker 1: first became well known for even though she's from a
[1:30:49] Speaker 1: famous family her father was a writer director or her
[1:30:51] Speaker 1: mother was an actress. She she became famous for her
[1:30:55] Speaker 1: role in Rosemary's Baby, which was written and directed by
[1:30:57] Speaker 1: Roman Polanski. So it's interesting that these two are sort
[1:31:02] Speaker 1: of tied together in this way. These are like these
[1:31:05] Speaker 1: are like vintage Epstein files, like everything that's going on
[1:31:08] Speaker 1: with these people, but like she Roman Polanski a Polish
[1:31:13] Speaker 1: French director who was essentially separated from his parents during
[1:31:17] Speaker 1: the Holocaust. He was later reconnected with his father, but
[1:31:21] Speaker 1: he came to the US wrote and directed Rosemary's Baby
[1:31:24] Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty eight, the same year he married actress
[1:31:27] Speaker 1: Sharon Tate. In nineteen sixty nine, Famously, a pregnant Sharon
[1:31:30] Speaker 1: Tate was among those murdered by the Manson family while
[1:31:34] Speaker 1: he was out of town. I believe he was in
[1:31:35] Speaker 1: London filming a movie. In seventy four, he made Chinatown,
[1:31:40] Speaker 1: which was like a huge hit. Jack Nicholson latsio credits
[1:31:44] Speaker 1: because I just knew him as a rapist. But I
[1:31:46] Speaker 1: guess he's made a lot of stuff. Yeah, yeah, I
[1:31:49] Speaker 1: mean he made The Pianist in like two thousand and
[1:31:51] Speaker 1: like two or three or something. I didn't know that.
[1:31:55] Speaker 1: I definitely saw that. Yeah. In nineteen seventy seven, however,
[1:32:00] Speaker 1: Polanski had a young girl named let me see. At
[1:32:09] Speaker 1: the time, her name was Samantha Gaily and now she's
[1:32:11] Speaker 1: married and her name is Samantha Geimer. I think you
[1:32:13] Speaker 1: would say it Gei, Mr Roman. Polanski had her over,
[1:32:17] Speaker 1: she was thirteen years old, had her over to Jack
[1:32:21] Speaker 1: Nicholson's house, which he shared with my obsession Angelica Houston,
[1:32:27] Speaker 1: his girlfriend at the time. I love Angelica Houston. Jack
[1:32:30] Speaker 1: Nicholson was out of town skiing in Colorado. Angelica Houston
[1:32:33] Speaker 1: was off the premises. He had this thirteen year old
[1:32:35] Speaker 1: girl over Polanski, so he could photograph her as part
[1:32:38] Speaker 1: of French Vogue, and he'd been invited to like edit
[1:32:41] Speaker 1: French Vogue or something for a month, and her mother
[1:32:44] Speaker 1: had allowed this to be a private photo shoot. Again,
[1:32:46] Speaker 1: it's like, you know, there's a lot of adults that
[1:32:50] Speaker 1: are fucking up here, Like you know how people will.
[1:32:52] Speaker 4: Blame the goalie for letting the goal in.
[1:32:54] Speaker 1: It's like there's a lot of defense that doesn't get
[1:32:57] Speaker 1: that doesn't stop it either from happening. Allows this thirteen
[1:33:01] Speaker 1: year old girl to go have a private photo shoot
[1:33:02] Speaker 1: with a grown man, and she was uncomfortable, like she
[1:33:06] Speaker 1: had to pose topless, and so then he said later
[1:33:13] Speaker 1: he gave her a bunch of She testified later that
[1:33:15] Speaker 1: he gave her a bunch of champagne to like loosen
[1:33:17] Speaker 1: her up. She was nervous, she was scared, and then
[1:33:21] Speaker 1: he made her like lie on the bed and then
[1:33:22] Speaker 1: he sexually assaulted her. He assaulted her, He pedetreated her
[1:33:26] Speaker 1: vaginally and anally. He performed oral sex on her even
[1:33:29] Speaker 1: though she didn't want that. After he gave her champagne
[1:33:32] Speaker 1: and they allegedly shared a kaylude. So she was in
[1:33:36] Speaker 1: and out feeling very but she also was like she
[1:33:41] Speaker 1: remembers saying no, but she was also like if I
[1:33:43] Speaker 1: get I guess I just get.
[1:33:44] Speaker 4: To go home if this is done, like when this
[1:33:45] Speaker 4: is done.
[1:33:46] Speaker 1: So then he ended up being arrested for drugging and
[1:33:51] Speaker 1: raping the searteen year old girl.
[1:33:52] Speaker 4: He pleaded guilty.
[1:33:54] Speaker 1: The charges were unlawful sexual intercourse with a female under
[1:33:57] Speaker 1: the age of eighteen, rape by use of drugs, perversion,
[1:34:00] Speaker 1: sodomy and elude, and lascivious act upon a child under
[1:34:03] Speaker 1: the age of fourteen, and furnishing a controlled substance to
[1:34:06] Speaker 1: a minor.
[1:34:07] Speaker 4: So he a lot of charges, yeah.
[1:34:10] Speaker 1: A lot of charges, but he pleaded guilty to the
[1:34:14] Speaker 1: lesser charge of unlawful sex with a minor in exchange
[1:34:17] Speaker 1: for a probation only sentence. And he also claims to
[1:34:20] Speaker 1: save this girl a trial right. But then the night
[1:34:25] Speaker 1: before his sentencing in nineteen seventy eight, he learned that
[1:34:28] Speaker 1: the judge was going to reject the plea bargain, and
[1:34:31] Speaker 1: apparently this guy was like, fuck this, I'm throwing this
[1:34:33] Speaker 1: guy in for as long as I can and was
[1:34:34] Speaker 1: going to give him fifty years in prison. So Polanski
[1:34:38] Speaker 1: fled to Paris and he's a I believe he's a
[1:34:41] Speaker 1: French citizen as well. So he continued his career and
[1:34:44] Speaker 1: he remains currently still a fugitive from the US justice system.
[1:34:48] Speaker 1: And in the time that he's been abroad, several other
[1:34:52] Speaker 1: women have come forward with sexual abuse allegations by Polanski.
[1:34:57] Speaker 1: He rarely leaves France and two thousand and eight, actually
[1:35:01] Speaker 1: his victim said, I don't wish for him to be
[1:35:03] Speaker 1: held to further punishment or consequences, she said. She has
[1:35:07] Speaker 1: said that the media, reporters, the court and the judge
[1:35:10] Speaker 1: have caused quote unquote way more damage to me and
[1:35:12] Speaker 1: my family than anything Roman Polanski has ever done, really,
[1:35:16] Speaker 1: and which is weird because in nineteen ninety three, I'm sorry,
[1:35:21] Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty eight she sued him for alleged sexual assault,
[1:35:25] Speaker 1: false imprisonment, seduction of a minor, and intentional infliction of
[1:35:28] Speaker 1: emotional distress. And in nineteen ninety three he settled with
[1:35:32] Speaker 1: her for an undisclosed amount, and as of August of
[1:35:35] Speaker 1: ninety six, he still owed her six hundred thousand. But
[1:35:39] Speaker 1: it's interesting to me that she did sue him at
[1:35:42] Speaker 1: the time, maybe that was, like, who knows, I'm sure
[1:35:45] Speaker 1: at the like, I don't know in hindsight, maybe people
[1:35:49] Speaker 1: have convinced her otherwise. But in March of twenty twenty three,
[1:35:53] Speaker 1: her and her husband met up with Polanski and his
[1:35:56] Speaker 1: wife for a cover interview of French magazine, and in
[1:36:02] Speaker 1: this interview she says, quote, let me be very clear,
[1:36:05] Speaker 1: what happened with Polanski was never a big problem for me.
[1:36:08] Speaker 1: I didn't even know it was illegal that someone could
[1:36:10] Speaker 1: be arrested for it. I was fine. I'm still fine.
[1:36:13] Speaker 1: It was so unfair and so in opposition to justice.
[1:36:16] Speaker 1: Everyone should know by now that Roman has served his sentence,
[1:36:19] Speaker 1: which was long. If you want my opinion, anyone who
[1:36:23] Speaker 1: thinks that he deserves to be in prison is wrong
[1:36:25] Speaker 1: if it isn't the case today, and it wasn't the
[1:36:27] Speaker 1: case yesterday. End quote. But she did sue him, she
[1:36:32] Speaker 1: did tell authorities that she said no and that she
[1:36:36] Speaker 1: didn't want it to happen, and she protested. So I
[1:36:39] Speaker 1: don't fucking know. In October of twenty seventeen, a German
[1:36:43] Speaker 1: actress named Nte Langer told Swiss police that Polanski raped
[1:36:46] Speaker 1: her in Shad when she was fifteen in nineteen seventy.
[1:36:49] Speaker 1: Two weeks later, American artist Mary Anne Barnard accused Polanski
[1:36:54] Speaker 1: of sexually assaulting her in nineteen seventy five when she
[1:36:56] Speaker 1: was ten years old, and in November of twenty nineteen,
[1:36:59] Speaker 1: French actress of Valentine Monier said that Polinski raped her
[1:37:03] Speaker 1: at a ski Shelle and Stad in nineteen seventy five
[1:37:06] Speaker 1: when she was eighteen.
[1:37:07] Speaker 4: So those are just some of the accusations.
[1:37:10] Speaker 1: And this guy loves to go skiing and assault teenagers,
[1:37:15] Speaker 1: like I don't fucking know, but he's still.
[1:37:18] Speaker 2: And people defend him. I mean, that fucking Quentin Tarantino
[1:37:23] Speaker 2: clip was fucked, but.
[1:37:25] Speaker 1: He also got his Cecil b de Mille Award taken away,
[1:37:29] Speaker 1: and it turned like they were trying to after me too.
[1:37:34] Speaker 1: Focus a little bit more on how bad it is
[1:37:37] Speaker 1: that we're still like allowing him to release movies, like
[1:37:39] Speaker 1: and he's still getting deals and stuff like that. I mean,
[1:37:42] Speaker 1: Dylan Ferrell was saying, like, okay, so Weinstein is behind bars,
[1:37:46] Speaker 1: but Amazon just signed like a multimillion dollar deal with
[1:37:49] Speaker 1: my dad who sexually assaulted me. So it's like, you know,
[1:37:53] Speaker 1: there they are sort of pick and choosing on who
[1:37:56] Speaker 1: they are, you know, going after. But Polanski's like still
[1:38:03] Speaker 1: making stuff and living free in France. Yeah, France love
[1:38:10] Speaker 1: sexual assault. Yeah, they really like hated me too. They
[1:38:17] Speaker 1: think it's just like prude Americans, And I'm like, you
[1:38:19] Speaker 1: shouldn't have to be getting raped at work, like fuck yeah,
[1:38:24] Speaker 1: Like what's the big Like, I don't know, it's just
[1:38:28] Speaker 1: so gross that all of these men just like really
[1:38:31] Speaker 1: want to be with like inexperienced, like young girls when
[1:38:37] Speaker 1: you can. I don't know, like is a twenty two
[1:38:40] Speaker 1: year old not hot enough for you? I don't get it,
[1:38:42] Speaker 1: like you had fifteen. I know. It's gross and it's
[1:38:46] Speaker 1: about power, you know, yeah, like all of that stuff
[1:38:49] Speaker 1: like these fucking yeahs, yeah, fucking freaks to be Like
[1:38:54] Speaker 1: I'm twenty one and I can't get enough of Woody Allen.
[1:38:56] Speaker 1: It's like, I don't know, go to therapy. And he
[1:38:59] Speaker 1: was like pulling was kind of like claiming. I think
[1:39:02] Speaker 1: when he around the time where he lost the cecil
[1:39:04] Speaker 1: b de Mill like he was like, Weinstein's just throwing
[1:39:07] Speaker 1: me under the bus so that my movie doesn't win
[1:39:09] Speaker 1: an Oscar or something like that, and it's like, okay, yeah,
[1:39:13] Speaker 1: I guess just pedophile on pedophile crime happening all the
[1:39:16] Speaker 1: way was Winstein a pedophile or did he just like
[1:39:18] Speaker 1: hurt grown women Weinstein. I think the people have been grown.
[1:39:26] Speaker 1: But I have no idea what he's up to or
[1:39:28] Speaker 1: if he's any I mean, I don't know. Yeah, yeah,
[1:39:33] Speaker 1: anywhere anyway.
[1:39:35] Speaker 2: Well, we have an incredible guest. One of the best
[1:39:38] Speaker 2: days of my life.
[1:39:39] Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere, stay seated for the best guest ever.
[1:39:50] Speaker 1: Our guest today is a prolific actor. To use the
[1:39:54] Speaker 1: word mildly. You may know best for playing White House
[1:39:57] Speaker 1: Deputy Chief of Staff Josh Lyman on The West. You
[1:40:00] Speaker 1: may also know him as the Villainous Dad and Get
[1:40:03] Speaker 1: Out and dozens of other projects, but you know him
[1:40:06] Speaker 1: best today as filmmaker slash pedophile Frank Maddox. Please enjoy
[1:40:11] Speaker 1: our chat with the legendary Bradley Whitford. We want to
[1:40:15] Speaker 1: talk about both episodes that you did, but we'll start
[1:40:17] Speaker 1: on reasonable doubt. Like when they sent you the script
[1:40:20] Speaker 1: for this, were you like swim Woody Allen or what like?
[1:40:23] Speaker 5: Were you just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, God.
[1:40:28] Speaker 4: With the Roman Polanski twist at the end with it.
[1:40:31] Speaker 5: Yeah, it was very very sleazy. I have had I
[1:40:39] Speaker 5: guess the sleeze ball has been at different times in
[1:40:42] Speaker 5: my career what you would call a wheelhouse for me.
[1:40:52] Speaker 5: You know, I think when I met often I would
[1:40:56] Speaker 5: meet people who would assume that there was something sort
[1:40:59] Speaker 5: of Ted Bundy about me because of these sort of
[1:41:03] Speaker 5: sort of characters that I play another thing, and that
[1:41:05] Speaker 5: way we can get back to the incredible nuance that
[1:41:09] Speaker 5: I put into being a pediasque. But that was the show.
[1:41:16] Speaker 5: I would not know my wife if I hadn't done
[1:41:22] Speaker 5: that episode because part of the reason it's true, I mean,
[1:41:28] Speaker 5: it's what it's like one of the biggest butterfly effects
[1:41:33] Speaker 5: moments of my life. Jeffrey Tamior was on the show,
[1:41:38] Speaker 5: and I knew I had scenes with Jeffrey, and I
[1:41:42] Speaker 5: met Jeffrey and while we were shooting the courtroom scene,
[1:41:48] Speaker 5: Jeffrey came back from lunch and he's like, I don't
[1:41:51] Speaker 5: even know what this is. It's some internet thing. They
[1:41:56] Speaker 5: call it streaming. But I did, like, it wasn't even
[1:42:02] Speaker 5: I guess it was a pilot and it got picked
[1:42:05] Speaker 5: up and he came back from lunch and it was Transparent,
[1:42:11] Speaker 5: and Jeffrey said to Joey Solaway, you should see this
[1:42:19] Speaker 5: guy for this part that I did on Transparent, and
[1:42:27] Speaker 5: that's how I met my wife. It was because I
[1:42:31] Speaker 5: did that episode of SPU.
[1:42:33] Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, so you met on set.
[1:42:37] Speaker 5: So if you're lonely and you want to find the
[1:42:40] Speaker 5: woman of your dreams, you need to play a pediast
[1:42:46] Speaker 5: and pretend to be a homophobic cross dresser. Is the
[1:42:51] Speaker 5: lesson for everybody out there?
[1:42:53] Speaker 1: Well, and we could talk about get Out.
[1:42:55] Speaker 2: I mean that I'm party iconic bad guy.
[1:42:59] Speaker 5: That one of the best ever made like that was.
[1:43:05] Speaker 5: I remember sitting right where I am right now reading
[1:43:09] Speaker 5: this script and going into Amy was in the kitchen,
[1:43:16] Speaker 5: and I was like, oh my god, the script is
[1:43:21] Speaker 5: like complete. It is brilliant. I had no idea that
[1:43:28] Speaker 5: it was going to work, and I thought it, especially
[1:43:34] Speaker 5: with the part that I was playing. You know, you
[1:43:38] Speaker 5: don't want to get wise cracking, racist wrong. You know,
[1:43:44] Speaker 5: you don't know how what the tone is going to be.
[1:43:46] Speaker 5: I remember when I read it, I assumed, uh. I
[1:43:50] Speaker 5: was so obsessed with the Key and Peel and Jordan.
[1:43:57] Speaker 5: I just thought was, I mean, if there's there's any
[1:44:00] Speaker 5: bad thing about what happened with get Out, it's that
[1:44:02] Speaker 5: we don't get to see Jordan act anymore. Because he
[1:44:05] Speaker 5: was one of those comic actors. Was just absolutely brilliant,
[1:44:10] Speaker 5: and I had assumed that I knew he was directing it,
[1:44:12] Speaker 5: but it was a four million dollar movie. I don't know.
[1:44:16] Speaker 5: I'm sure they don't tell you how much an SVU
[1:44:21] Speaker 5: episode costs, but wagering it's less than half that I
[1:44:32] Speaker 5: did get out was probably half what a SVU episode is.
[1:44:37] Speaker 5: And we shot it in twenty days and I loved
[1:44:42] Speaker 5: the script. I love the people I got to work with.
[1:44:45] Speaker 5: We all wanted it to work for Jordan, but it
[1:44:47] Speaker 5: was there was no you know, people are always like, oh,
[1:44:52] Speaker 5: you must have known. I'm like, no, I like and
[1:44:57] Speaker 5: I remember going to loop it and Jordan was there
[1:45:03] Speaker 5: and I said can I see it? And he's like, no, no,
[1:45:08] Speaker 5: I want you to. I want you to see it
[1:45:10] Speaker 5: with an audience. And I'm like, how is it? And
[1:45:14] Speaker 5: he's like and Jordan is the least arrogant person on
[1:45:19] Speaker 5: the planet, and he's like, I think it's really really good.
[1:45:24] Speaker 5: And I was like, well, I was kidding him. I
[1:45:26] Speaker 5: was like, well you have to think that, because you know,
[1:45:29] Speaker 5: your name's all over and everything, and he's like, no,
[1:45:31] Speaker 5: I think it's really really good. And then Amy and
[1:45:34] Speaker 5: I went at Sundance midnight screening, and I have never
[1:45:41] Speaker 5: seen a suit fle rise like that. Wow.
[1:45:46] Speaker 2: For me, it's one of my favorite movie going experiences
[1:45:49] Speaker 2: I've ever had, for sure, Like because I went opening
[1:45:53] Speaker 2: weekend and I remember and people were fucking pumped in
[1:45:55] Speaker 2: so many surprises and so many twists, like such a
[1:45:58] Speaker 2: good end.
[1:45:59] Speaker 1: I mean that it was, well, do.
[1:46:01] Speaker 5: You know, you know, I do you know about the
[1:46:03] Speaker 5: ending of that movie. It's a really interesting thing.
[1:46:06] Speaker 2: Yeah, I've read that it was supposed to be sad,
[1:46:09] Speaker 2: not good ending what we probably all as an audience
[1:46:11] Speaker 2: thought was going to happen, and I'm glad that it wasn't.
[1:46:15] Speaker 5: I don't know, Well, what's brilliant about it? You know?
[1:46:21] Speaker 5: It ended with Lilrell's character visiting the character of Chris
[1:46:28] Speaker 5: in prison.
[1:46:30] Speaker 4: Oh I didn't know. I didn't know about this at all.
[1:46:32] Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't know about this.
[1:46:34] Speaker 5: Yeah, and it was, I mean, it was a brilliant
[1:46:39] Speaker 5: He was basically going to him saying, you know, I
[1:46:45] Speaker 5: know what happened, we can expose this, and Daniel's character
[1:46:49] Speaker 5: going it's okay, we got him, And it was. It
[1:46:52] Speaker 5: was a brilliant statement about like mass incarceration and It's
[1:47:00] Speaker 5: a very interesting thing to me. The and I don't
[1:47:07] Speaker 5: know the nuances. I don't think it was a testing issue,
[1:47:11] Speaker 5: but it ended up changing to a moment, you know,
[1:47:16] Speaker 5: when Chris is killing the white woman, you know, in
[1:47:21] Speaker 5: the driveway and the police car drives, you see the
[1:47:25] Speaker 5: red lights and the door opens and you see TSA. Now,
[1:47:31] Speaker 5: I don't care what kind of you know, racist, you know, white, cracker,
[1:47:37] Speaker 5: lunatic you are. You're going to laugh at that moment.
[1:47:42] Speaker 5: And when you're laughing, you're acknowledging the truth that black
[1:47:50] Speaker 5: people are not safe, you know, with around cops. If
[1:47:55] Speaker 5: you say that, you're not going to get the message
[1:47:58] Speaker 5: through to the racist people out there. And that was
[1:48:04] Speaker 5: It's always a really interesting you know, because I've done
[1:48:08] Speaker 5: a lot of I've ended up being in a lot
[1:48:10] Speaker 5: of socially relevant stuff and so that's a really fascinating
[1:48:16] Speaker 5: thing to me. And I think the other ending worked well.
[1:48:18] Speaker 5: But there's something brilliant about that.
[1:48:22] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:48:24] Speaker 1: Well he seems like a cool director. And in this
[1:48:28] Speaker 1: episode of SVU, you're playing sort of this dickhead director, right, Yeah,
[1:48:34] Speaker 1: you're playing and I'm like, we got to find out,
[1:48:37] Speaker 1: like what are you drawn from? Who? Are you drawn
[1:48:39] Speaker 1: from here?
[1:48:40] Speaker 5: Oh my god. Well, I have very complicated feelings about directors,
[1:48:50] Speaker 5: and I'm more and more vehement about you know, I
[1:48:55] Speaker 5: worry for young actors coming up. Navigating directors is tough.
[1:49:03] Speaker 5: There's there's basically as one of two atmospheres on a set,
[1:49:10] Speaker 5: or one of two atmospheres coming at you as an actor,
[1:49:15] Speaker 5: and one is And it's interesting because I've done a
[1:49:20] Speaker 5: lot of theater and I'm lucky enough to be able
[1:49:23] Speaker 5: to do both. There's always a sense at a reading,
[1:49:28] Speaker 5: the first read through of a play of hey, this
[1:49:31] Speaker 5: might work as flawed as it may be, but there's
[1:49:35] Speaker 5: a kind of optimism about the whole endeavor. Any filmed
[1:49:43] Speaker 5: thing I've ever done, often the read through is ironically,
[1:49:48] Speaker 5: especially if it's good, there's a fear to it, like
[1:49:52] Speaker 5: I hope we don't fuck this up. And I think
[1:49:55] Speaker 5: it has to do with just the exposure and the
[1:49:59] Speaker 5: mon involved. So directors, and I've directed some, it's incredible pressure.
[1:50:07] Speaker 5: That they're under incredible pressure, and the a less secure
[1:50:14] Speaker 5: director allows their fear to impose, and the message coming
[1:50:21] Speaker 5: to the actor is you don't fuck this up. You know,
[1:50:27] Speaker 5: I'm afraid you're going to fuck this up. I know
[1:50:30] Speaker 5: how you should do it, but as an actor you
[1:50:33] Speaker 5: can get this sense of, oh, they you know, they
[1:50:36] Speaker 5: don't trust you. The best directors and not just because
[1:50:40] Speaker 5: I'm doing this podcast, but Marishko's is intuitively like this.
[1:50:46] Speaker 5: But the namiest ones I've ever worked with, Spielberg or Jordan,
[1:50:53] Speaker 5: they they create an atmosphere of it's it's it's not
[1:51:01] Speaker 5: like school, it's like recess, and they are are and
[1:51:05] Speaker 5: it's like good parenting. It's like, you know, it's like
[1:51:09] Speaker 5: you owe your kids the possibility of surprising you. And
[1:51:15] Speaker 5: good directors leave that space. A good director knows their
[1:51:22] Speaker 5: self interest will be served, the story's interest will be served.
[1:51:26] Speaker 5: If the actor doesn't think that the director knows how
[1:51:31] Speaker 5: the actor should play the scene more than the actor knows.
[1:51:35] Speaker 5: There there's a very subtle sort of kind of empowerment thing.
[1:51:40] Speaker 5: And basically, and you have to navigate them all the time.
[1:51:45] Speaker 5: And I understand the fear and the pressure, believe me
[1:51:49] Speaker 5: that they're under, but often you have to. You have
[1:51:54] Speaker 5: to navigate these you know, titanically insecure uh directors. And
[1:52:01] Speaker 5: there's this it's a very weird, you know, hierarchy on
[1:52:06] Speaker 5: a set I always laugh because it's filled with you know,
[1:52:09] Speaker 5: people like me, you know, Pinko, lefty, fancy yourself a humanist.
[1:52:14] Speaker 5: And then you get on a set and it's like
[1:52:15] Speaker 5: a fifteenth century serfdom, you know, it's you know, it's like,
[1:52:19] Speaker 5: I'm surprised there aren't like rickshaws. And if I'm in
[1:52:23] Speaker 5: the middle of the take, it's totally fine. If I go,
[1:52:28] Speaker 5: we got to cut and go where's the prop guy?
[1:52:31] Speaker 5: You know, where's my watch? Where's my fucking watch? That's fine.
[1:52:36] Speaker 5: If the prop guy goes it's in the fucking trailer
[1:52:40] Speaker 5: where I put it for you to put on. He's gone,
[1:52:44] Speaker 5: you know what I mean. So there's this and on
[1:52:46] Speaker 5: a set, these directors are inevitably in a position of authority,
[1:52:53] Speaker 5: and the best ones are secure enough to empower everybody
[1:52:57] Speaker 5: on the set around them, including the actors. But for
[1:53:02] Speaker 5: young actors coming up, it's you know, it's really scary,
[1:53:06] Speaker 5: especially you know. Sbu is a classic example of there's
[1:53:12] Speaker 5: nothing harder than a guest shot on an ongoing show.
[1:53:19] Speaker 5: There's nothing more challenging because you're coming into a family
[1:53:24] Speaker 5: that has been together and you can really tighten up,
[1:53:32] Speaker 5: you know, because inevitably. I mean despite everything I'm saying,
[1:53:40] Speaker 5: you know, I'm shooting the Diplomat now, and and like
[1:53:45] Speaker 5: we've incredible guest actors on that, and like after the
[1:53:50] Speaker 5: first take you're like, oh my god, I love that,
[1:53:53] Speaker 5: you know, Carrie and I are like, how do they
[1:53:56] Speaker 5: find these people? But it means that we're worried that
[1:53:59] Speaker 5: they might not, you know what I mean. And that's, uh,
[1:54:03] Speaker 5: that's a really hard thing for guest actors to navigate.
[1:54:07] Speaker 5: On West Wing, where we would do these walking talks
[1:54:10] Speaker 5: that were kind of a signature of the show, and
[1:54:15] Speaker 5: you could tell that these guest actors were terrified.
[1:54:19] Speaker 1: You made me terrified, Yeah, I got.
[1:54:25] Speaker 5: And we even doing them like you know, yeah, the
[1:54:29] Speaker 5: end of a walk uh, end of a walk and talk,
[1:54:32] Speaker 5: you know, like a really long one where you're like,
[1:54:37] Speaker 5: we just called f o G fear of greatness when
[1:54:40] Speaker 5: you like fuck up, but you know at the end
[1:54:42] Speaker 5: and you'd have to go back. And the thing with
[1:54:44] Speaker 5: walking talks that you learn quickly is the first couple
[1:54:49] Speaker 5: probably are not going to work unless it's unless it's
[1:54:51] Speaker 5: a miracle. Now, if you're a guest actor on there,
[1:54:55] Speaker 5: it's the the neurosis of being an actor is until
[1:54:59] Speaker 5: something thing works, you don't know if it ever will. Right.
[1:55:03] Speaker 5: So I learned on Westling if I was doing if
[1:55:07] Speaker 5: I had a guest actor and a walk and talk,
[1:55:09] Speaker 5: I would talk to our camera. I tell the camera guy,
[1:55:13] Speaker 5: I'm gonna fuck. I'm gonna fuck up the first one.
[1:55:15] Speaker 5: I'm gonna like, we'll just go like ten feet and
[1:55:19] Speaker 5: I'll oh shit, I went up. Uh because that relaxes everybody.
[1:55:24] Speaker 1: Uh Uh, that kind of calms Yeah, because the guest actors, like, well,
[1:55:28] Speaker 1: if Bradley Whitford's sucking up a walk and talk, I
[1:55:30] Speaker 1: guess I'm okay, I can figure it out. You know
[1:55:32] Speaker 1: they won't wat.
[1:55:33] Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And your and your fear is that
[1:55:37] Speaker 5: you know, it's really being a guest actor landing in
[1:55:41] Speaker 5: an alien world whatever it is, you know, Handmaid's SVU anything,
[1:55:46] Speaker 5: and making yourself right at home with your blood flowing. Uh.
[1:55:52] Speaker 5: You know they should have oscars for that.
[1:55:55] Speaker 2: Now that it's on streaming, do you find like a
[1:55:58] Speaker 2: different audience has found to the West Wing and find.
[1:56:03] Speaker 5: Because when we yeah, when we you know, when we
[1:56:07] Speaker 5: started that show, maybe there would be a rerun in
[1:56:11] Speaker 5: the summer. And then if you ever wanted to see
[1:56:14] Speaker 5: it again, you'd have to make an appointment at the
[1:56:15] Speaker 5: Museum of Broadcasting. And while we're making it, suddenly they
[1:56:19] Speaker 5: start putting out these VHS sets of it and then DVDs,
[1:56:25] Speaker 5: and you know, now I think you know it's unfortunately, Uh,
[1:56:36] Speaker 5: every wave of the erosion of democracy that we go through,
[1:56:43] Speaker 5: more people sort of watch it. It's sort of like
[1:56:45] Speaker 5: progressive music or progressive porn.
[1:56:49] Speaker 4: Well you for the government, you know, fantasy.
[1:56:55] Speaker 5: But yeah, it's it's wild to all of us that
[1:57:00] Speaker 5: it sort of continues. Uh, you know, you know, to
[1:57:05] Speaker 5: have this life and uh, you know, can be an
[1:57:13] Speaker 5: object of inspiration and sadness. Uh uh you know, I
[1:57:20] Speaker 5: always joked that my career is basically tracking, you know,
[1:57:24] Speaker 5: the death of democracy.
[1:57:28] Speaker 2: Now I was just gonna ask, are there You've named
[1:57:30] Speaker 2: so many cool people, but are there moments you remember
[1:57:33] Speaker 2: being starstruck or a little extra nervous or.
[1:57:36] Speaker 5: Oh yeah, well, I mean a thrill though She's just
[1:57:41] Speaker 5: a delay in easy and uh, Meryl Streep was doing
[1:57:48] Speaker 5: it like a take up close with her was uh
[1:57:56] Speaker 5: and this is not me being a fan or starfucking
[1:57:59] Speaker 5: or any thing. It was just watching her do this
[1:58:02] Speaker 5: take you know, like this far away from her and
[1:58:06] Speaker 5: totally out of character. In my head, I'm like, oh,
[1:58:10] Speaker 5: she's playing like five pianos, like like is a whole
[1:58:16] Speaker 5: different the whole different ballgame.
[1:58:21] Speaker 1: And what that saying is that a saying did you
[1:58:23] Speaker 1: just come up with that?
[1:58:24] Speaker 5: I came up with it before when I in my head,
[1:58:27] Speaker 5: when I was like, I've.
[1:58:29] Speaker 4: A few things you said, do you really have some
[1:58:31] Speaker 4: like nice schools?
[1:58:32] Speaker 5: The I mean the other ship, Like there's some people
[1:58:36] Speaker 5: who work with who who kind of change your idea
[1:58:43] Speaker 5: about U about acting. I mean, I mean I Mark Rylance,
[1:58:50] Speaker 5: I did a play with for a very long time,
[1:58:54] Speaker 5: and that that kind of changed to where I thought
[1:58:59] Speaker 5: about it. I mean a lot of it. The biggest
[1:59:03] Speaker 5: privilege I have is that I've gotten a lot of
[1:59:05] Speaker 5: at bats, like a lot of at bats, and I'm
[1:59:08] Speaker 5: really grateful for that. And I needed them because I
[1:59:14] Speaker 5: only partially mean this in a self deprecating way. But
[1:59:17] Speaker 5: given enough chances, you know, even a chimp will type
[1:59:20] Speaker 5: the dictionary. I mean, you do. You do learn the
[1:59:24] Speaker 5: more you do it. And there's a lot of anxiety,
[1:59:28] Speaker 5: blinding anxiety. Again, I still get in there. I don't
[1:59:32] Speaker 5: know if it's seen is going to work until it
[1:59:34] Speaker 5: works or and I don't know after I shot it
[1:59:38] Speaker 5: if it works. There's a lot like there's a lot
[1:59:41] Speaker 5: of you negotiating with yourself how you're going to deal
[1:59:45] Speaker 5: with insecurity and fear and one fundamental way you do
[1:59:50] Speaker 5: it that those two actors sort of flicked my gyroscope
[1:59:55] Speaker 5: about was as a young actor, you're you're trying to
[1:59:59] Speaker 5: narrow down you know, what the scene is, what the
[2:00:02] Speaker 5: character is, You're trying to define it. And what I
[2:00:07] Speaker 5: learned from those extraordinary actors and just in that moment
[2:00:12] Speaker 5: with her, she was opening up the aperture she was,
[2:00:17] Speaker 5: She wasn't narrowing it. And both of them were not
[2:00:22] Speaker 5: executing performances, but their cut of magic Sauce was not
[2:00:27] Speaker 5: playing a scene but getting played and that at that
[2:00:32] Speaker 5: moment with her just kind of blew my mind. She
[2:00:34] Speaker 5: would never think that moment was you know anything, But
[2:00:40] Speaker 5: that's really interesting. Interesting to me the older I get
[2:00:45] Speaker 5: of uh, you know, you got to deal with all
[2:00:49] Speaker 5: this technical stuff. That's the funny thing too, is like
[2:00:53] Speaker 5: everybody you know growing up looking at actors, you think
[2:00:57] Speaker 5: that you know, film acting is like incredibly you know,
[2:01:00] Speaker 5: organic and there's something a little more artificial about theater acting.
[2:01:05] Speaker 5: You know, film acting is like doing the golf swing. Yeah, well,
[2:01:11] Speaker 5: you know the method actors are more organic. Yeah, you know,
[2:01:15] Speaker 5: but it's you know, you like you got to hit
[2:01:17] Speaker 5: a mark, you gotta do this. You know, when you
[2:01:21] Speaker 5: do a play, you're just like, you know, you don't
[2:01:24] Speaker 5: have to gear up emotionally, it's just happening to you.
[2:01:29] Speaker 5: But to see those those two people just sort of
[2:01:33] Speaker 5: like get played, it was a different way of thinking
[2:01:37] Speaker 5: about acting for me.
[2:01:39] Speaker 4: What do you think your first credit.
[2:01:40] Speaker 5: Is Dead is a doorman?
[2:01:43] Speaker 2: There's the Doorman's eighty five, and then you did an
[2:01:46] Speaker 2: equalizer one episode.
[2:01:47] Speaker 5: Before before Dead is a dormance.
[2:01:51] Speaker 1: Well there, I don't see Dead as a dormant. It
[2:01:53] Speaker 1: just as dormant.
[2:01:53] Speaker 5: Oh that was That was the original title that shortened.
[2:01:57] Speaker 5: It was directed by Henny Youngman's son. Yeah. I did
[2:02:01] Speaker 5: an anti smoking skit in sixth grade. You know how
[2:02:05] Speaker 5: old I am. I really believe that I smoked a
[2:02:09] Speaker 5: cigarette during the anti smoking. I love this very method,
[2:02:16] Speaker 5: very method. Amy and I just had this little experience
[2:02:19] Speaker 5: making her movie.
[2:02:20] Speaker 4: Yeah for worse.
[2:02:21] Speaker 5: That that is coming out. Have you seen it?
[2:02:25] Speaker 1: I we've been helping to promo it to our listeners
[2:02:29] Speaker 1: because it features not only Amy but podcast favorite Missy
[2:02:33] Speaker 1: Pyle and now and Now podcast favorite Bradley Whitford. So
[2:02:37] Speaker 1: we will be continuing to push it. Butway, I have
[2:02:39] Speaker 1: not seen it yet, but there's more sview people. Paul
[2:02:42] Speaker 1: Edelstein's in a couple.
[2:02:43] Speaker 5: Of Yeah, Paul Edelstein's in it. Yeah, it. But here's
[2:02:48] Speaker 5: the thing that you know, at one point, you know,
[2:02:52] Speaker 5: we had producers. I don't know how much he told you, like,
[2:02:56] Speaker 5: you know, we had I think like four million, you
[2:03:02] Speaker 5: know that, you know, to make an independent movie, which
[2:03:06] Speaker 5: is a lot, and you know for the totally independent
[2:03:12] Speaker 5: movie we were gonna make, and then I forget what
[2:03:17] Speaker 5: happened to COVID happened. Then the strike happened, and then
[2:03:21] Speaker 5: at one point they were gonna do it for two million,
[2:03:23] Speaker 5: which is really cutting it close. And then they said
[2:03:26] Speaker 5: they couldn't do it, and we went back to them
[2:03:28] Speaker 5: and said, can you do it for a million? And
[2:03:30] Speaker 5: they were like no. They hired like a line producer
[2:03:33] Speaker 5: who said you cannot make this for a million, and
[2:03:36] Speaker 5: we made it for less than five hundred thousand dollars
[2:03:41] Speaker 5: and you'll see it's you know, Amy, in the same
[2:03:47] Speaker 5: way that Jordan. One of the problems with storytelling in
[2:03:53] Speaker 5: Hollywood is the high percentage of it is a bunch
[2:03:57] Speaker 5: of people walking around telling it joke that they don't
[2:04:01] Speaker 5: personally think is funny. They're just trying to sell it.
[2:04:05] Speaker 5: And you can smell that, like from a mile away.
[2:04:10] Speaker 5: Jordan has no condescension about the horror genre. Loves it,
[2:04:16] Speaker 5: loves every second of it, loves the mechanisms of it,
[2:04:19] Speaker 5: is fascinated by it. That's why that movie worked. Amy
[2:04:23] Speaker 5: loves rom coms. She loves playing around, you know, with
[2:04:28] Speaker 5: that puzzle. And I'm telling you less than five hundred
[2:04:33] Speaker 5: thousand dollars and we shot it in eleven days.
[2:04:36] Speaker 1: I'm looking at this trailer and it looks so good.
[2:04:39] Speaker 5: All these actors showed up, all these people showed up,
[2:04:43] Speaker 5: and you don't it truly made me. You know, we
[2:04:48] Speaker 5: didn't have playback, and Amy's in every frame, and it
[2:04:54] Speaker 5: just made me weep because like it's her voice, it's
[2:04:59] Speaker 5: you know, it's it's funny, uh and it's true, you
[2:05:04] Speaker 5: know it's and that's the stuff that all the people
[2:05:11] Speaker 5: running around, you know, kind of kind in Hollywood tend
[2:05:15] Speaker 5: to forget passion.
[2:05:18] Speaker 1: I'm gonna see it. I'm going I want to see
[2:05:19] Speaker 1: it when it's in La. I'm excited. We should let
[2:05:22] Speaker 1: you go. But do you have any other last like
[2:05:26] Speaker 1: little funny stories from the set. Did you and Iced
[2:05:28] Speaker 1: Tea have a moment together?
[2:05:30] Speaker 5: Uh? We cuddled, Uh you know, we napped together. I
[2:05:37] Speaker 5: was told it was a requirement.
[2:05:39] Speaker 4: Wearing my sweatshirt.
[2:05:41] Speaker 5: Uh not. I wish I'd had stuff with I didn't
[2:05:44] Speaker 5: have stuff with him in this. No, it was just
[2:05:47] Speaker 5: like I was just excited for Burrishka. I remember, like,
[2:05:53] Speaker 5: you know, the show shoots, the show shoots really fast,
[2:05:58] Speaker 5: and you know you're doing all this sort of sad
[2:06:02] Speaker 5: stuff all day. And it was just like really long day.
[2:06:05] Speaker 5: And I realized that like I, uh, I think I
[2:06:09] Speaker 5: took a nap at lunch, I hadn't eaten anything. And
[2:06:12] Speaker 5: I was in my little at one point, I'm in
[2:06:15] Speaker 5: like hospital, uh you know, humiliation gown. Uh. And I
[2:06:22] Speaker 5: remember realizing like, oh, I haven't eaten anything, and there
[2:06:26] Speaker 5: were and there was soup and I got into line
[2:06:30] Speaker 5: with the with the crew at Craft Services, and I
[2:06:35] Speaker 5: was I was really sleepy, but and I realized that.
[2:06:40] Speaker 5: I like, I hadn't eaten and I got up there
[2:06:41] Speaker 5: for the soup with the craft services guy was like, uh,
[2:06:45] Speaker 5: no background, no background. I was like, no, I'm I'm
[2:06:51] Speaker 5: I'm a guest actor. Uh.
[2:06:54] Speaker 4: He didn't want to give you the soup.
[2:06:56] Speaker 5: He didn't want to give me this. I'm like, please
[2:06:57] Speaker 5: just give me the fucking suit.
[2:06:59] Speaker 2: Well, I was just thinking, I bet that West Wing's
[2:07:01] Speaker 2: schedule was wild.
[2:07:03] Speaker 5: Yeah, that it was insane crazy. I've said this, I've
[2:07:09] Speaker 5: said this, it was crazy, and I don't know what
[2:07:15] Speaker 5: was going on back then. I think they didn't want
[2:07:19] Speaker 5: to admit how long, how many episodes. They didn't want
[2:07:24] Speaker 5: to break the eight days, the pretense that you could
[2:07:30] Speaker 5: make that show in eight days, right, the level of
[2:07:34] Speaker 5: first of all, what Aaron did on that show. I
[2:07:38] Speaker 5: wrote two episodes a year apart. I thought my brain
[2:07:43] Speaker 5: was going to fucking break. He wrote twenty two for
[2:07:48] Speaker 5: four years. That is the equivalent. You know, The Sopranos
[2:07:54] Speaker 5: is as good as any mob movie. The West Wing,
[2:07:57] Speaker 5: I would I don't think it's arrogant to say was
[2:08:00] Speaker 5: attempting to be as good as any political movie. So
[2:08:03] Speaker 5: you're making the equivalent of eleven feature films in nine months,
[2:08:10] Speaker 5: and they would pretend that they could do it in
[2:08:12] Speaker 5: eight days because they if they broke that rule, other
[2:08:20] Speaker 5: shows would want more time as well. So a short
[2:08:25] Speaker 5: day for us was fifteen hours, and it was far
[2:08:30] Speaker 5: more brutal for the crew and people. If you're doing
[2:08:34] Speaker 5: a feature, it's a sprint and you can do six weeks,
[2:08:39] Speaker 5: you know, if you're doing a series. And again, especially
[2:08:42] Speaker 5: for the crew, people started to like go nuts, and
[2:08:46] Speaker 5: I mean eventually, you know, it was like I remember
[2:08:52] Speaker 5: braying at somebody, like, you know, the invisible carnage of
[2:08:56] Speaker 5: the unfucked wives and the children not being read to
[2:09:01] Speaker 5: is just like wafting out into the future. And that's
[2:09:07] Speaker 5: a good name for a band.
[2:09:08] Speaker 1: By the way, the invisible Carnage of the Unfucked Wives
[2:09:12] Speaker 1: even more hard.
[2:09:13] Speaker 5: That's that's their first album. That was their day. Yeah,
[2:09:19] Speaker 5: but yeah, I know, I know it was insane.
[2:09:22] Speaker 1: I just saw Janelle and uh, she's done an sv
[2:09:26] Speaker 1: Janelle Maloney from She's on an SVU. She's the doctor
[2:09:29] Speaker 1: we were trying to get for that episode.
[2:09:31] Speaker 5: Yeah, And I had agreed, I was, she lives in
[2:09:35] Speaker 5: Brooklyn and we haven't you know, and Allison and I
[2:09:40] Speaker 5: talk about this. I mean we it was brutal, but
[2:09:47] Speaker 5: we are all. Even Richard Schiff is grateful. I mean,
[2:09:53] Speaker 5: which is a miracle, uh for him to experience that emotion. Uh,
[2:10:00] Speaker 5: but you know, it was such a crushing level of
[2:10:07] Speaker 5: it was familial. You know, you were you will be
[2:10:11] Speaker 5: revealed in your good days, your bad days, you're tired,
[2:10:16] Speaker 5: you know, you're happy. Uh, it was. It was a
[2:10:19] Speaker 5: very intense thing. And now only on a show like
[2:10:22] Speaker 5: s for you do you get that, uh you know
[2:10:27] Speaker 5: in like intensity. You know, on Handmaids you do, you know,
[2:10:32] Speaker 5: or Diplomat you do eight or ten every couple of years,
[2:10:37] Speaker 5: which is saner and the wives get fucked. But uh
[2:10:46] Speaker 5: but it's a different different kinds.
[2:10:48] Speaker 1: First, you know, I miss I miss some of these
[2:10:51] Speaker 1: twenty two episodes.
[2:10:53] Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah no, And like I think the
[2:10:56] Speaker 5: pit is kind of a sweet spot. What are they fifteen?
[2:10:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, they do fifteen the pet It's good, yeah, because
[2:11:03] Speaker 1: it's the full shift. Your episode of your this episode
[2:11:09] Speaker 1: where you're the Woody Allen type is the the episode
[2:11:13] Speaker 1: right after it is another West Wing Josh Molina, It's
[2:11:15] Speaker 1: episode thought criminal lawyer. He his episode is creepy. He's
[2:11:20] Speaker 1: a guy who builds a.
[2:11:22] Speaker 5: F Are you aware of my thing with John?
[2:11:26] Speaker 1: Oh? We need to cut this, we could do off No, no, I.
[2:11:32] Speaker 5: Want it on the record. Josh is uh the very
[2:11:40] Speaker 5: I met Aaron Sorkin because I was in a Few
[2:11:43] Speaker 5: Good Men on Broadway and my first night on a
[2:11:47] Speaker 5: Broadway stage, which is in an Aaron Sorkin piece, It's
[2:11:51] Speaker 5: like jumping on a moving train. It's terrifying, terrifying, and uh,
[2:11:59] Speaker 5: I get halfway through and then there's a big trial.
[2:12:02] Speaker 5: Initially I was playing the Kevin Bacon part then, and
[2:12:06] Speaker 5: I was understudying the lead, and then I took over
[2:12:09] Speaker 5: the lead, which is why I got west Way. Basically,
[2:12:16] Speaker 5: Aaron gave me like a big break. But I'm going
[2:12:20] Speaker 5: into a Broadway play. I am. You're basically watching the
[2:12:25] Speaker 5: play and rehearsing with a stage manager, and then you
[2:12:29] Speaker 5: do one put in and then you're on and it's terrifying.
[2:12:34] Speaker 5: And I'm halfway through and I have the big court
[2:12:36] Speaker 5: scene and I come down and we're facing the audience
[2:12:40] Speaker 5: and I open up my briefcase and it is plastered
[2:12:46] Speaker 5: with pornography that haunts me to this day that Josh
[2:12:52] Speaker 5: Molina put in there my first night. And it turns
[2:12:55] Speaker 5: out that Josh is a how do I put it,
[2:12:59] Speaker 5: malignant practical joker, like dangerous, not funny. And Josh he
[2:13:06] Speaker 5: almost got fired because he put itching powder in one
[2:13:11] Speaker 5: of the marines costumes, which is technically actually kind of
[2:13:16] Speaker 5: a poison. So you have a marine up on a thing,
[2:13:19] Speaker 5: like you know, like like going like this.
[2:13:21] Speaker 1: Josh is a little porn in the briefcase, I can
[2:13:24] Speaker 1: get behind, but you can't give people like a rash.
[2:13:27] Speaker 5: Josh one director west Wing would destroy directors. They would
[2:13:32] Speaker 5: come in cocky, you know, and like, you know, maybe
[2:13:35] Speaker 5: I'll get nominated for an Emmy and you would find
[2:13:37] Speaker 5: them weeping behind flats. And Friday night you shoot until
[2:13:42] Speaker 5: like you know, two three in the morning, and this
[2:13:47] Speaker 5: poor guy is like staggering out the door and Warner
[2:13:52] Speaker 5: Brothers and just wants to go home and sleep for
[2:13:55] Speaker 5: a short weekend. Josh has gotten the guy's keys from
[2:14:02] Speaker 5: Transpo and put a bunch of stuff from the set
[2:14:07] Speaker 5: like Teddy Roosevelt's snowbel prize in some computers in the
[2:14:11] Speaker 5: back of the guy's car and calls security when we
[2:14:17] Speaker 5: wrap at three in the morning. And basically, long story,
[2:14:23] Speaker 5: short the directors, basically getting arrested by the Burbank police
[2:14:28] Speaker 5: for stealing stuff. That's his idea of a hahaha.
[2:14:32] Speaker 1: How did everyone get out of it?
[2:14:33] Speaker 5: So he did something to me which is too long,
[2:14:41] Speaker 5: too long to go into. So I I had to
[2:14:46] Speaker 5: I have made the mistake of engaging in this with him,
[2:14:51] Speaker 5: and I got him. I got hold of the memoriam
[2:14:59] Speaker 5: editor for the SAG Awards to get him cut into
[2:15:04] Speaker 5: the memory will and I had a check written for
[2:15:08] Speaker 5: several thousand dollars and the guy chickened out, which is
[2:15:12] Speaker 5: lucky because it would have been the greatest thing ever,
[2:15:17] Speaker 5: but horribly disrespectful to the people who died that year.
[2:15:21] Speaker 5: But he would have been declared dead to all of
[2:15:25] Speaker 5: show business. And when I got to write The West Wings,
[2:15:36] Speaker 5: the second one, all I knew was I wanted to
[2:15:44] Speaker 5: get to a moment where Josh had to humiliate himself
[2:15:51] Speaker 5: on national television. So this was after John Spencer died.
[2:15:56] Speaker 5: And I keep it on my phone because it's I'm
[2:16:00] Speaker 5: more proud of it than uh anything I've ever done creatively.
[2:16:06] Speaker 5: The Allison is now the Press Secretary, Josh is the
[2:16:11] Speaker 5: Press Secretary. Alison is now the chief of staff, and
[2:16:16] Speaker 5: Alison brings Josh into the office and says, the president's
[2:16:22] Speaker 5: son in law is having an affair and uh, he
[2:16:30] Speaker 5: says why he's like he was running for Congress and
[2:16:36] Speaker 5: and and Josh is playing the press secretary. And he goes,
[2:16:39] Speaker 5: why didn't you tell me that? And she she's because
[2:16:44] Speaker 5: you're the press secretary. You have to you have to
[2:16:47] Speaker 5: deal with the deal with the press, and he and
[2:16:49] Speaker 5: he goes, uh, uh, yeah, exactly, I deal with the press.
[2:16:53] Speaker 5: I should be the least informed person in the room.
[2:16:57] Speaker 5: You taught me that. And she goes, suck it up,
[2:17:01] Speaker 5: and he goes, I can't act. I am a terrible actor.
[2:17:07] Speaker 5: I don't like to pretend. And I got it into
[2:17:12] Speaker 5: an episode and I keep it on my phone to
[2:17:15] Speaker 5: want me to play it for you. I do my
[2:17:20] Speaker 5: bensport when I'm the least informed person in the room.
[2:17:22] Speaker 5: You taught me that.
[2:17:22] Speaker 1: Suck it up.
[2:17:23] Speaker 5: I can't act.
[2:17:25] Speaker 1: You were up to protect during the podcast. The truth
[2:17:30] Speaker 1: of it is, I love Josh oh Good. At first,
[2:17:33] Speaker 1: I was like, oh, have I brought up some deep
[2:17:35] Speaker 1: seated West wing feud that I didn't know about.
[2:17:37] Speaker 4: Thank you for giving us so much time and so
[2:17:39] Speaker 4: many great.
[2:17:41] Speaker 5: Really funny. Tell everybody to go see Tell everybody to
[2:17:45] Speaker 5: go see.
[2:17:46] Speaker 4: For worse or worse. Thank you so much, Bradley. This
[2:17:49] Speaker 4: was awesome. This was one of the best moments of
[2:17:55] Speaker 4: my life.
[2:17:55] Speaker 1: I would say, I mean, I think we talked to
[2:17:58] Speaker 1: him for was that was that like our longest interview.
[2:18:01] Speaker 1: I think we talked to him for like an hour
[2:18:02] Speaker 1: and a half.
[2:18:02] Speaker 2: I just truly feel like I really laughed for my innercore.
[2:18:08] Speaker 2: And oh, I'm trying to find the quotes. I really
[2:18:10] Speaker 2: liked his quotes. I was talking about getting the crew's
[2:18:12] Speaker 2: like wives fucked.
[2:18:13] Speaker 1: For weeks, like after we talked to him, Wait what
[2:18:17] Speaker 1: when he was like, we need to get the crew
[2:18:18] Speaker 1: home to fuck their wives.
[2:18:20] Speaker 4: Oh yes, it's like the best.
[2:18:25] Speaker 1: And I like that.
[2:18:25] Speaker 2: He said like set should feel like recess, not like school.
[2:18:28] Speaker 2: That it's like, yeah, like practice of submission is what
[2:18:32] Speaker 2: acting is.
[2:18:32] Speaker 1: Like.
[2:18:33] Speaker 2: He's just fun, but I think he takes his work seriously,
[2:18:36] Speaker 2: but he doesn't take himself seriously or like the business
[2:18:38] Speaker 2: in that way and still is feels really like excited
[2:18:43] Speaker 2: to work and likes all these people he's met.
[2:18:46] Speaker 4: I'm just I'm in I was like very taken.
[2:18:49] Speaker 1: By yes, I love him. I love his work. Who's
[2:18:52] Speaker 1: the guy in Chicago that I love him? And Amy?
[2:18:54] Speaker 1: Dennis Weber? You're out? What was the guy's name that
[2:18:58] Speaker 1: I loved from we loved him so much? We don't
[2:18:59] Speaker 1: know his name? Steve Weber? See it was years ago.
[2:19:02] Speaker 2: Come on, I know, I remember when we interviewed him
[2:19:06] Speaker 2: because we were in the Carolinas and we were in
[2:19:09] Speaker 2: a weird hotel, so like we were at a hotel.
[2:19:13] Speaker 1: But yeah, Steve Weber's out. Bradley Whitford in I mean
[2:19:18] Speaker 1: of my heart. Yeah, but I love him so much.
[2:19:22] Speaker 1: I love his relationship with Amy Landaker. I love them
[2:19:25] Speaker 1: finding love after love. You know, there's also something so
[2:19:30] Speaker 1: comforting about him to me. Like I said, I did
[2:19:32] Speaker 1: quit The Handmaid's Tale after like two or three seasons
[2:19:35] Speaker 1: because it got too real and then I started having kids.
[2:19:37] Speaker 1: But his character just being kind of one of the
[2:19:40] Speaker 1: like good guys, was like, he's comforting to me in
[2:19:43] Speaker 1: that way.
[2:19:43] Speaker 4: Also because I got to watch West Wing.
[2:19:46] Speaker 1: I never was a West Winger, but like I had
[2:19:48] Speaker 1: a friend come over recently who's like, oh, I watched
[2:19:50] Speaker 1: the West Wing like once a year, and I was like,
[2:19:52] Speaker 1: we just interviewed Bradley on our podcast, and she was like, what,
[2:19:54] Speaker 1: like people are obsessed, like they.
[2:19:56] Speaker 2: I want to watch West Wing. I pulled it up
[2:19:59] Speaker 2: on a tab, but I still haven't watched any TV
[2:20:02] Speaker 2: shows since. But I haven't watched it a Rivalry either.
[2:20:05] Speaker 2: I've put myself on like buz, yeah yeah.
[2:20:08] Speaker 1: Like yeah, get into drag Race. I'm liking this season.
[2:20:11] Speaker 1: I like, I will.
[2:20:12] Speaker 4: I just truly am like reading or doing my Russian homework.
[2:20:15] Speaker 1: Or like ow. I mean, I'm not sitting here trying
[2:20:17] Speaker 1: to beg you to get on a twelve hour show binge.
[2:20:20] Speaker 1: I don't want that. I like what you're doing. I
[2:20:22] Speaker 1: like that.
[2:20:23] Speaker 2: It's been fine. I have been getting blacked out. That
[2:20:25] Speaker 2: is a reality as well. But I you know, it's fine.
[2:20:29] Speaker 2: You live in New York, you're young, you're having fun.
[2:20:33] Speaker 2: Come on, I'm giving you permission anyway, so reasonable doubt.
[2:20:38] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we'll talk every one. Everyone's a molester, everyone
[2:20:42] Speaker 1: is a I mean. The sad part to me is that, Like,
[2:20:45] Speaker 1: the sad part to me is that like Roman Polanski's victim,
[2:20:47] Speaker 1: just like felt I think so, I don't know, I'm
[2:20:51] Speaker 1: not going to speak for her, but like that you
[2:20:53] Speaker 1: would go after the person, toe the person get some
[2:20:57] Speaker 1: bit of justice, and then publicly be like it was
[2:20:59] Speaker 1: always it's fine. It's like even if that is how
[2:21:01] Speaker 1: you feel, because I'm not going to tell anybody how
[2:21:03] Speaker 1: to feel. Like, why are we sending that message that
[2:21:07] Speaker 1: it is okay for a man to have sex with
[2:21:08] Speaker 1: a thirteen year old while they're on kailud.
[2:21:10] Speaker 4: It's like, I don't know, like that's not that's we.
[2:21:13] Speaker 2: Even with the Michael Jackson where it's like they were
[2:21:15] Speaker 2: just napping and it's like, okay, but why are they napping?
[2:21:18] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[2:21:18] Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Like what are you talking?
[2:21:20] Speaker 1: I think we just need to say that going forward,
[2:21:22] Speaker 1: this isn't okay. So I think it's okay for her
[2:21:25] Speaker 1: to come out and say I'm through this, like I've
[2:21:27] Speaker 1: moved on, like but not to be like it was
[2:21:29] Speaker 1: never a problem is so strange. But also, who knows
[2:21:33] Speaker 1: what being under media scrutiny since you were thirteen for
[2:21:36] Speaker 1: this one specific extremely famous case has done to your
[2:21:40] Speaker 1: youth psychologically.
[2:21:41] Speaker 4: But this episode, I don't know, there's just.
[2:21:47] Speaker 2: Really okay things in such a week. It's so weird
[2:21:50] Speaker 2: what people don't want to deal it. I don't know
[2:21:55] Speaker 2: it's it's really strange, like I would never be friends
[2:21:59] Speaker 2: with someone that married their daughter in any capacity, like
[2:22:04] Speaker 2: not a step, not a twice removed, not like a
[2:22:08] Speaker 2: fake situation where it's like just your friend's kid, like
[2:22:12] Speaker 2: I yeah, even though it's just like I don't understand
[2:22:16] Speaker 2: the leniency with which people I don't know bring people
[2:22:22] Speaker 2: into their lives. Yeah, yeah, to make a movie.
[2:22:27] Speaker 4: I mean, people are hungry for fame, you know, but
[2:22:33] Speaker 4: don't I know it.
[2:22:35] Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, let's let's get onto what would sister Peg do?
[2:22:41] Speaker 2: This week, Chris Fleming was on Caleb's podcast and he
[2:22:45] Speaker 2: was talking.
[2:22:45] Speaker 4: He's like, of course I want to be mega famous.
[2:22:47] Speaker 2: He's like, I am pissed that I'm not, and Caleb's like, no,
[2:22:49] Speaker 2: you're like too weird, Like no way, he goes, No,
[2:22:51] Speaker 2: I want to be Regis filming.
[2:22:52] Speaker 1: That's my icon. And I know he's being so sincere,
[2:22:58] Speaker 1: but like, and I get it.
[2:22:59] Speaker 2: To have a Day Times show for decades on air
[2:23:01] Speaker 2: is like incredible, but like, yeah, I guess, yeah, reaches
[2:23:05] Speaker 2: I used to I like Barbara Walters, Like I get it,
[2:23:07] Speaker 2: but it's just.
[2:23:08] Speaker 1: Like it tickled me. It tickled me, And he had
[2:23:10] Speaker 1: a great analysis of feter rivalry Chris Fleming. Catch him
[2:23:14] Speaker 1: on Caleb's podcast. He's so fucking funny and get his
[2:23:17] Speaker 1: watch a special.
[2:23:18] Speaker 4: I haven't watched him watch I love him.
[2:23:20] Speaker 1: I just do that.
[2:23:21] Speaker 2: But I get kind of jealous because I feel like
[2:23:23] Speaker 2: Caleb and I really connect on his pot and I
[2:23:25] Speaker 2: don't like the way he laughs with Chris Fleming.
[2:23:27] Speaker 1: Ah, but he laughs with so many people. Yeah, but
[2:23:31] Speaker 1: I know that.
[2:23:31] Speaker 2: I know mine is different, but when I see it
[2:23:34] Speaker 2: with Chris, I get pissed.
[2:23:35] Speaker 1: But that's how I feel.
[2:23:36] Speaker 2: When I sit at my coffee shop, when I see
[2:23:37] Speaker 2: them being nice to other regulars, I'm like, who the
[2:23:39] Speaker 2: fuck is that?
[2:23:40] Speaker 1: Excuse me, excuse me?
[2:23:41] Speaker 5: What?
[2:23:42] Speaker 1: Get out of here. I like, take your macha, take
[2:23:45] Speaker 1: your macha and move on. You're talking to my friends.
[2:23:47] Speaker 1: They would never serve much at my coffee shop. They
[2:23:49] Speaker 1: don't have DJs, well latte. You know, I don't even
[2:23:53] Speaker 1: drink coffee. I'm throwing the terms out like I don't
[2:23:55] Speaker 1: even know what I'm talking about. Okay, So throwing the
[2:23:59] Speaker 1: terms I don't know, like flat white, like I don't
[2:24:03] Speaker 1: even know what things are. Okay. So let's get into
[2:24:07] Speaker 1: what would sister peg do our weekly segment where we
[2:24:09] Speaker 1: direct you guys to an organization a blog post.
[2:24:13] Speaker 4: I always say, blog post, it's so stupid.
[2:24:15] Speaker 1: We barely ever do a blog post, an article, a documentary,
[2:24:19] Speaker 1: something to give you more info about the case we covered,
[2:24:23] Speaker 1: or the you know, the topics we touched on. And
[2:24:26] Speaker 1: this week we wanted to point you towards the Hollywood
[2:24:28] Speaker 1: Reporter article from ten years ago that Ronan Pharaoh wrote
[2:24:30] Speaker 1: about his dad, called my father, Woody Allan and the
[2:24:33] Speaker 1: danger of questions unasked. This is one of the early
[2:24:36] Speaker 1: articles that put Ronan Pharaoh on the map. You guys
[2:24:38] Speaker 1: all know I talked about this awesome Ronan Pharaoh piece
[2:24:41] Speaker 1: that I read last year. This article is really critical
[2:24:44] Speaker 1: of the media and the way it handled Woody Allen
[2:24:46] Speaker 1: and other well known sexual predators. And we all know
[2:24:49] Speaker 1: this is pre Harvey Weinstein, me too. We all know
[2:24:51] Speaker 1: Ronan Pharaoh was very instrumental in bringing that entire movement
[2:24:55] Speaker 1: to light. And there are a lot of lessons in
[2:24:58] Speaker 1: this article that the media could still so to read it,
[2:25:01] Speaker 1: head over to the Hollywood Reporter and we will have
[2:25:04] Speaker 1: that linked in our show notes and in a story
[2:25:08] Speaker 1: that we post in our stories on Instagram at That's
[2:25:10] Speaker 1: Messed Up Pod that come out to day this episode airs,
[2:25:14] Speaker 1: and we always save those in our WWSPD highlight on
[2:25:17] Speaker 1: our Instagram page, So get on over there if you
[2:25:18] Speaker 1: ever want to say, what was that organization that they mentioned?
[2:25:21] Speaker 4: It's there and that's that, and that is that.
[2:25:26] Speaker 2: And next week we'll be doing Great Expectations Season eighteen,
[2:25:30] Speaker 2: episode eleven.
[2:25:34] Speaker 4: Bye, everybody, see you next week.
[2:25:44] Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
[2:25:46] Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
[2:25:48] Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
[2:25:51] Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
[2:25:54] Speaker 1: That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
[2:25:57] Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.
[2:25:59] Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
[2:26:02] Speaker 2: and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.
[2:26:06] Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
[2:26:09] Speaker 1: more information.
[2:26:10] Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
[2:26:13] Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to.
[2:26:16] Speaker 1: Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner,
[2:26:20] Speaker 1: and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
[2:26:22] Speaker 1: Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers,
[2:26:26] Speaker 1: Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer and everybody at Exactly
[2:26:30] Speaker 1: Right Media.
[2:26:32] Speaker 5: Dun Dun,

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