# Murdered at a Bad Address w/ Happy Anderson

An episode of [That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1540370040), 30 Jun 2026, 1 h 48 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/cf7e6913-a01e-4666-a095-b24c0047c637/7ee3a8d0-af45-4044-aab5-b47800e5d7c2/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=c3a2c876-20bf-449b-8d54-b24c0047c64d

This week, Kara and Liza break down the SVU episode, “Murdered at a Bad Address” (Season 21, Episode 6) and discuss the scandal surrounding corrupt cop Louis N. Scarcella. Plus, they interview the wonderful Happy Anderson. SOURCES: The New York Times 1 The New York Times 2 The New York Times 3 The New York Times 4 The New York Times 5 Wikipedia - Louis Scarcella KTLA ABC 7 CBS News 6ABC Courthouse News Service The Innocence Center The San Diego Union-Tribune WHAT WOULD SISTER PEG DO: The Frederick Douglass Project for Justice Next week’s episode will be “Savant” (Season 9, Episode 4). Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3yb7hqu See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
[0:04] Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
[0:06] Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
[0:09] Speaker 3: These are our stories, done done.
[0:27] Speaker 2: Yay, that's messed up an SVW podcast.
[0:31] Speaker 1: I'm Liza Tragger. It's like, what's this pause about? I
[0:38] Speaker 1: got distracted by my own bracelet and I'm Kara klank At.
[0:44] Speaker 1: Every week you guys know you guys, if you're a Tommy,
[0:47] Speaker 1: you know this is sv recaps true crime deep dives
[0:51] Speaker 1: and interviews with fun actors and people involved with the
[0:55] Speaker 1: show and chit chats. And you're holding a la boo boo.
[0:59] Speaker 1: What is that?
[1:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, stretching, But it's that Laboo Boo's not gonna get
[1:06] Speaker 2: plenty of fresh ites.
[1:07] Speaker 1: He's doing his little stretches.
[1:08] Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it is funny that this is episode two
[1:12] Speaker 2: ninety one, and like, I could still fuck up the intro.
[1:14] Speaker 2: It's like so cool to remember.
[1:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're like, we're not just phoning it in
[1:21] Speaker 1: you now. People say that SVU is a well oiled machine.
[1:25] Speaker 1: Not this podcast. We this machine's constantly got fucking some
[1:30] Speaker 1: shit gunking up the cogs and stuff and we've got
[1:33] Speaker 1: to clear it.
[1:33] Speaker 2: Out and it's mostly just stuff on my desk. That's yeah,
[1:37] Speaker 2: that's what it is. I can't with this desk. I
[1:40] Speaker 2: also have this kind of la blue boo too. It's like, oh,
[1:43] Speaker 2: I'm open lighte. This was the gift. It's so fun
[1:46] Speaker 2: when I post things on like my videos on Instant
[1:51] Speaker 2: and people will be like, I gave that to you,
[1:52] Speaker 2: because it's all kind of blurs. What people do get
[1:55] Speaker 2: me such good. I guess it's such.
[1:56] Speaker 1: A blur, like where, oh my god, my my pouch
[2:00] Speaker 1: that says I haven't a prince who wants to be
[2:03] Speaker 1: a princess when you can be Olivia Ben.
[2:05] Speaker 2: Ali Ben said, it's honestly and reach. I can grab
[2:07] Speaker 2: it right now if you want to look at it.
[2:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, so ours is our gem pouch. It's like where
[2:12] Speaker 1: my kids put all their gems. Oh my god, the
[2:14] Speaker 1: way that yours looks so white and beautiful like mine
[2:19] Speaker 1: is I would say, a dark shade of cream now
[2:22] Speaker 1: because of my children use it every day like okay,
[2:25] Speaker 1: it's where all their gems are. Yeah, so all their
[2:28] Speaker 1: gems are in there. And I mean, if you're listening,
[2:32] Speaker 1: thank you, to the person who gave us that, because
[2:33] Speaker 1: that's truly a constant in my life. So you know,
[2:36] Speaker 1: it's been gorgeous to New York.
[2:38] Speaker 2: And I was taking the long way to get onto
[2:40] Speaker 2: the train to go to Brooklyn for a show, and
[2:42] Speaker 2: I had enough time and there was an one outdoor
[2:45] Speaker 2: table of two and one of my favorite bars, so
[2:47] Speaker 2: I was like, fuck, I got it. I'll have a beer,
[2:50] Speaker 2: so I put I didn't want to leave my stuff
[2:51] Speaker 2: out there, so I put a book down. No big deal,
[2:54] Speaker 2: and I asked the man at the other table, I'm like,
[2:55] Speaker 2: can you just watch my book? I want to go
[2:57] Speaker 2: get a guinness. So I get the the books being held.
[3:02] Speaker 2: His friends joins him, and then it's Giovanni's rooms. So
[3:04] Speaker 2: then one of the guys is like, what part are
[3:06] Speaker 2: you on? And then I can't figure out if they're
[3:09] Speaker 2: straight or get or whatever, and we start talking about
[3:11] Speaker 2: Giovanni's room and reading and then heat Reverie and how
[3:13] Speaker 2: I got into reading, and they're like, well, why did
[3:15] Speaker 2: that get you into reading? Like their books, and then
[3:17] Speaker 2: the guy goes, yeah, you know, I like gay guys stuff,
[3:21] Speaker 2: but when it comes to gay sex, I just can't
[3:23] Speaker 2: watch it. And I'm not sure what the reason is.
[3:25] Speaker 2: And then he got a phone call and I started reading.
[3:28] Speaker 2: But it's like, I think it's homophobia, Like I don't.
[3:31] Speaker 1: I don't know what the other reason would be.
[3:35] Speaker 2: Unless you don't like any sex and stuff like that
[3:37] Speaker 2: makes sense to me, like I don't like seeing actors
[3:40] Speaker 2: fuck on camera like that. Okay, yeah, but to be like,
[3:43] Speaker 2: I don't know what it is, but I just can't
[3:46] Speaker 2: look at gay sex like I think it's homophobia, but
[3:49] Speaker 2: maybe there's something I'm not I'm not grasping.
[3:53] Speaker 1: Yeah, but he.
[3:54] Speaker 2: Seemed gay to me, but a lot of but I
[3:56] Speaker 2: guess not because then the other guy mentioned his wife.
[3:59] Speaker 1: He was in a nixture. Then I started reading and
[4:01] Speaker 1: the night ago, but I'm sorry it was a guy
[4:04] Speaker 1: you were talking to. It was two guys. It's two guys.
[4:07] Speaker 1: Do they care about two women having sex? Well?
[4:09] Speaker 2: No, Then he got a phone call because I obviously
[4:11] Speaker 2: would have argued him. He really it was like the
[4:13] Speaker 2: luckiest moment of his life, say, by the fucking bell.
[4:17] Speaker 2: And then I started reading and then they started talking,
[4:19] Speaker 2: so is fine? Then I left, but I yeah, I
[4:22] Speaker 2: was just like, then, what do you think it is?
[4:25] Speaker 1: It's weird?
[4:26] Speaker 2: I don't.
[4:28] Speaker 1: I don't.
[4:29] Speaker 2: I just don't know what else the reason because it's
[4:31] Speaker 2: like you either are apprude all around, because you can
[4:36] Speaker 2: also look at stuff that doesn't turn you on, and
[4:38] Speaker 2: then you can also be turned on by stuff that's
[4:40] Speaker 2: not porn.
[4:40] Speaker 1: It's just like everyone's brains have broken. Yeah, you can
[4:43] Speaker 1: also be turned on by just like two people making
[4:46] Speaker 1: out if it's like the right storyline, like if the circle.
[4:49] Speaker 2: But I couldn't tell if the guy was gay or not,
[4:52] Speaker 2: like his friend wasn't but I couldn't tell if this
[4:54] Speaker 2: guy was.
[4:56] Speaker 1: Oh so that that's interesting to me self hate So
[5:02] Speaker 1: maybe some self hating situation, oh one hundred percent.
[5:06] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but maybe not. I mean, maybe there's more
[5:10] Speaker 2: to it that I'm not seeing. But to me, I'm
[5:12] Speaker 2: just like, huh, it's a weird thing to say out
[5:15] Speaker 2: loud too.
[5:16] Speaker 1: To me, we met any penetrative any penetrative sex, Like,
[5:20] Speaker 1: what does it matter where different penises are going? I
[5:22] Speaker 1: don't think it matters. Also, everyone and you also don't
[5:25] Speaker 1: see a penis, right, that's the thing. Every like the
[5:28] Speaker 1: thing is people have built it up to be too porny.
[5:30] Speaker 2: Again, well, I'm not going to watch off campus, but like,
[5:33] Speaker 2: I haven't heard any porn comparisons to that show.
[5:36] Speaker 1: What's Off Campus.
[5:37] Speaker 2: It's a straight hockey show on Amazon that's like a
[5:40] Speaker 2: hit right now, and every time it's in my feet,
[5:42] Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't want this.
[5:44] Speaker 1: Oh wait, did they make this like quickly off of
[5:48] Speaker 1: the No, No, it's been around.
[5:50] Speaker 2: No, hockey smut's been in for a long time. I'm
[5:53] Speaker 2: late to it.
[5:54] Speaker 1: Oh, it's a genre. I mean, Rachel tifically hockey.
[5:58] Speaker 2: Yeah, Rachel's been writing these books for I think seven
[6:01] Speaker 2: or eight years, if not longer, right, and then like
[6:05] Speaker 2: there's a whole other series and then Red, White, and
[6:08] Speaker 2: Blue was also hockey, but straight this Off Campus is
[6:11] Speaker 2: it's like, No, it's like a.
[6:12] Speaker 1: Full genre on its own. I wonder why just hockey.
[6:16] Speaker 1: There's never like a basketball like story or like so
[6:20] Speaker 1: much equipment, like it makes it tougher, you know. Like,
[6:24] Speaker 1: And what.
[6:25] Speaker 2: I'm learning to is, like, I mean the homophobia for
[6:28] Speaker 2: the gay stuff, it's like a really masculine The Russians
[6:30] Speaker 2: are all like hate gay people, so I think the
[6:32] Speaker 2: secrets are like harder to keep.
[6:33] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah yeah, But then.
[6:34] Speaker 2: That's more what I also have learned reading all these
[6:37] Speaker 2: hockey books is like, okay, so there's the NHL that's professionals,
[6:41] Speaker 2: and then they all have feeder teams and you're a
[6:43] Speaker 2: professional person, but you could be undrafted. But with hockey,
[6:47] Speaker 2: like you could have to get on a flight that
[6:48] Speaker 2: night and join a team like are are Like our
[6:51] Speaker 2: goalie is injured, you're the next goalie. You need to
[6:55] Speaker 2: sit on the bench, and then you're like flying to
[6:57] Speaker 2: a different state and have to move. That's why one
[6:59] Speaker 2: of the books he falls in love with his interior
[7:02] Speaker 2: designer because they constantly have to move, like you can
[7:06] Speaker 2: get traded in the middle of anything. Also, like in
[7:08] Speaker 2: the game you can go in and out like basketball,
[7:09] Speaker 2: like you have to like wait to like sub players,
[7:12] Speaker 2: there's just something where they're just being traded all the time.
[7:16] Speaker 2: And there's all these under feeder like minor leagues, and
[7:22] Speaker 2: I think it's like that that adds drama too, Like
[7:25] Speaker 2: you're constantly being moved around maybe m M. And their
[7:29] Speaker 2: bodies just look good like you're because they're skating so
[7:32] Speaker 2: like their asses are good because of the movements they
[7:36] Speaker 2: have to do.
[7:37] Speaker 1: Sure, I mean soccer guys have hot asses too. I
[7:40] Speaker 1: bet there could be some good soccer spot No.
[7:42] Speaker 2: Yeah, but soccer they're so gay outwardly, you know what
[7:46] Speaker 2: I mean, They're very there. It's like the gayest sport. Besides,
[7:51] Speaker 2: I don't think synchronized swimming. Maybe water polo. No, yeah,
[7:56] Speaker 2: I don't know why it's hockey because I don't I've
[8:00] Speaker 2: never been to a hockey I've never watched.
[8:02] Speaker 1: A hockey game ever. Can I ask a random question
[8:05] Speaker 1: because you were a swimmer. When you were a swimmer,
[8:07] Speaker 1: did you ever do this thing where you would like
[8:09] Speaker 1: let your body hair grow and then shave, like right
[8:11] Speaker 1: before a meat so that you'd go faster?
[8:13] Speaker 2: Of course?
[8:14] Speaker 1: Okay. I was telling my friend that she grew up
[8:16] Speaker 1: swimming in England and she was a big swimmer, like
[8:19] Speaker 1: all county or whatever in England, and she was like, no,
[8:22] Speaker 1: we were just like always shaved all the time. I
[8:23] Speaker 1: was like, Oh, for some reason, the girls I knew
[8:26] Speaker 1: that were swimmers would do this drag thing right where
[8:28] Speaker 1: like it was yeah, like for drag, right, like the
[8:31] Speaker 1: hair drags.
[8:32] Speaker 2: You would that, but you wouldn't shave it for a
[8:34] Speaker 2: regular meat. You would do it for like sectionals conference
[8:37] Speaker 2: right like right, Like I wasn't that good? So like
[8:41] Speaker 2: for conference. That would be my big thing. But I
[8:44] Speaker 2: guess if you reveal like taking off all of air.
[8:47] Speaker 2: But we would also practice with drag suits on top
[8:49] Speaker 2: of our suits, so you would get a new suit
[8:51] Speaker 2: and then the old suits that would get like loosey
[8:54] Speaker 2: goosey because of all the douar and tear. You would
[8:55] Speaker 2: put them on top so they would drag on top
[8:57] Speaker 2: of you. So sometimes I'd be wearing like two three
[8:59] Speaker 2: suits gripped hanging, and then when they would rip, it
[9:03] Speaker 2: would hang, so it'd be even harder to swim, and
[9:05] Speaker 2: then you were harry as fuck. But the hockey guys too,
[9:07] Speaker 2: I guess like until playoffs you you have to grow
[9:11] Speaker 2: a beard. That's like that's a part of it. And yeah,
[9:14] Speaker 2: because Kip in the episode three of Heated Rivalries like
[9:16] Speaker 2: all you all look like sexy lumberjacks, you know. Ah,
[9:21] Speaker 2: But I don't know, please write us in if I'm
[9:23] Speaker 2: totally misrepresenting.
[9:25] Speaker 1: Why the like hockey smutt in it and.
[9:27] Speaker 2: Of itself, but it's kind of like fairy. It's just
[9:30] Speaker 2: like I don't know these like genre.
[9:33] Speaker 1: I knew that this was hockey smut, and I knew
[9:35] Speaker 1: that there was like sports smut. I guess I didn't
[9:37] Speaker 1: realize that the hockey smut was like the main thing,
[9:40] Speaker 1: Like I thought there was just like, oh, I.
[9:41] Speaker 2: Don't know about may I guess now because off campus,
[9:45] Speaker 2: Red White and Blue and Heated Rivalry are all out.
[9:47] Speaker 1: So I didn't know Red White and Blue was about
[9:48] Speaker 1: hockey at all. I knew that was like a popular
[9:51] Speaker 1: gay it might not be. Let me look it up.
[9:53] Speaker 2: It sounds kind of like a president red yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
[9:58] Speaker 2: I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'm wrong.
[10:01] Speaker 1: It's just it was like a like a like a
[10:04] Speaker 1: movie like or something. I met screaming at their things.
[10:10] Speaker 1: What's the what's the movie where the president is single
[10:13] Speaker 1: and it's an American president? An American president? Yeah, I
[10:17] Speaker 1: feel like, yes, you well, no, I wasn't because you
[10:21] Speaker 1: play the movie game all the time and you're very
[10:23] Speaker 1: you're like an IMDb person. Okay, yeah, no, I would do.
[10:30] Speaker 2: People have told me to watch Red White and Royal Blue.
[10:32] Speaker 2: I would watch it.
[10:33] Speaker 1: Watch. People were like loving that.
[10:35] Speaker 2: Wait.
[10:36] Speaker 1: Question, this episode's coming out before fourth of July, but
[10:39] Speaker 1: we're in the time machine so it's very early. But
[10:42] Speaker 1: do you know what you're doing for one of July?
[10:45] Speaker 2: Well, Survival of the Thickest premiers July second. Oh nice,
[10:49] Speaker 2: so it's out.
[10:51] Speaker 1: So yeah, everybody watched season three three three survival.
[10:57] Speaker 2: And I'm also I mean, i'll tell you about when
[11:00] Speaker 2: we're back. But it's being screened at the Tribeca Film
[11:02] Speaker 2: Festival in June, so I get to do that next week.
[11:06] Speaker 2: So we're in the time machine. So I'm excited for that. No,
[11:09] Speaker 2: I'm going to be in New York. Probably I'll go
[11:11] Speaker 2: to the beach Coney Island, sit, I don't know, get
[11:13] Speaker 2: a coffee. I'm not leaving town.
[11:16] Speaker 1: Let me tell you when we went to Coney Island
[11:18] Speaker 1: last year, July third is the day it's like not busy,
[11:23] Speaker 1: It's it was beautiful. It was so nice. We could
[11:26] Speaker 1: get on all these rides really easily, and it just
[11:29] Speaker 1: wasn't very busy. I feel like people were just like
[11:31] Speaker 1: waiting for the fourth. I guess. No, I went on
[11:33] Speaker 1: the fourth. I went on the fourth.
[11:34] Speaker 2: Oh okay, but we won prizes, we said, but but
[11:38] Speaker 2: we got two. We were at the beach by nine am.
[11:42] Speaker 1: Okay, we got there pretty early because we had the kids.
[11:44] Speaker 1: We got there. We wanted to go to the bar.
[11:46] Speaker 1: That little area that's all kid rides. And then we
[11:49] Speaker 1: went Me and Oscar went on a big roller coaster together.
[11:51] Speaker 1: He's my little coaster freak. He's going to be with me.
[11:54] Speaker 1: I can tell he like gets. He just sits quietly
[11:57] Speaker 1: on coasters with like a big smile, and he doesn't
[11:59] Speaker 1: get scared at all. Fucking little weirdo. I was looking
[12:06] Speaker 1: at this list of movies that are coming out, and
[12:12] Speaker 1: I just don't know if there's anything I'm dying to
[12:13] Speaker 1: see this summer. You're still waiting to see, like three
[12:17] Speaker 1: movies to see. No, But I did a Canis Mobley.
[12:20] Speaker 2: Do you know her? Yeah, she had the funniest joke yesterday.
[12:24] Speaker 2: But it's like she was just talking about how you're
[12:28] Speaker 2: not supposed to come in the drain because it fucks
[12:33] Speaker 2: with the plumbing and like all this stuff and like
[12:36] Speaker 2: they just tell you too, and she's like, how dare
[12:38] Speaker 2: you ask people to swallow your cum when it's like
[12:41] Speaker 2: you can't even you're not even supposed to put it
[12:42] Speaker 2: in a fucking drain? And I thought that was funny.
[12:47] Speaker 1: Possible that comes clogging up drains.
[12:50] Speaker 2: I'll tell uf, I'll find it come clogging drains. Okay,
[12:55] Speaker 2: So I just oh.
[12:56] Speaker 1: My god, there's a new Minions movie coming out July first.
[13:00] Speaker 2: Okay, can semen clog your pipes? Or is it an
[13:02] Speaker 2: urban legend? Oh there's a core. I'm an Airbnb host
[13:07] Speaker 2: and my guest masturbates. Oh my god, this is so fun.
[13:09] Speaker 2: I'm gonna have the universe of trying to notice claims
[13:12] Speaker 2: excessive amounts. So I just found out the shower's been
[13:15] Speaker 2: clogged for the past week, and today I finally opened
[13:17] Speaker 2: the drain to find out what was wrong, and there
[13:20] Speaker 2: was just whitish goo. I mean, it could be shampoo.
[13:22] Speaker 1: But it's not semen.
[13:24] Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, Someone's like, it's probably a conditioner, you weirdo.
[13:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, like soapscumb hair balls. I mean, like the internet
[13:34] Speaker 1: is saying that it's mostly made out of water semen.
[13:37] Speaker 2: Oh this says sorry for the nightmare fuel, but what
[13:39] Speaker 2: causes the clog is actually far grosser. Okay, So, can
[13:42] Speaker 2: come clog your pipes?
[13:45] Speaker 1: Okay?
[13:45] Speaker 2: So in twenty sixteen, Slate asked a Harvard Medical School
[13:50] Speaker 2: urology professor Abraham Morton Tigler to explain the semen Semen
[13:55] Speaker 2: only maintains its sickness for a short time.
[13:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah your first guy.
[14:01] Speaker 2: Oh wait, hold on, combine semen and water can tell
[14:04] Speaker 2: you the two form a horrifying rubberized texture. And while
[14:08] Speaker 2: it's fair to assume this would have pipe clonging capabilities,
[14:11] Speaker 2: fortunately this new texture is only temporary. Yeah, so I
[14:17] Speaker 2: guess her joke is based on them not real, but
[14:20] Speaker 2: I thought it was funny and I liked it.
[14:23] Speaker 1: I found like a ruter company that has like like
[14:26] Speaker 1: a guide to drain unclogging and then it says the
[14:30] Speaker 1: short answer is nose firm does not typically clog drains.
[14:33] Speaker 1: Like what why would you put that on your like ruter,
[14:37] Speaker 1: like your your plumbing site. Like that's hilarious, Like they're
[14:41] Speaker 1: very that place is very thorough. Okay, wait, I love that.
[14:45] Speaker 1: I just was like, wait, there's a new Minions movie
[14:47] Speaker 1: and you're like, back to the semen in the drains.
[14:49] Speaker 1: This is what makes these intros so okay. Wait, I
[14:53] Speaker 1: love the Minions.
[14:54] Speaker 2: Wait you saw what the guy Minyon that we talked
[14:56] Speaker 2: about this, the creator of Minions, what he said, what
[14:59] Speaker 2: they're like our all the Minions guys. He goes, yeah,
[15:01] Speaker 2: of course they're all men. Women wouldn't be the stupid.
[15:05] Speaker 1: Yeah, and they just follow They just follow one big Man.
[15:08] Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I love it. But I love the Minions.
[15:10] Speaker 2: I was late to them, but I really enjoy them.
[15:12] Speaker 2: They arcute.
[15:14] Speaker 1: I was early to the Minions because you know, I
[15:16] Speaker 1: worked for the company that made the Minions, so I
[15:18] Speaker 1: saw the movie and the Minions before most of the
[15:20] Speaker 1: rest of the world. But I didn't know that there
[15:23] Speaker 1: was a third one coming out. There is the live
[15:25] Speaker 1: act way.
[15:25] Speaker 2: But did you see that there's a theory that there's
[15:28] Speaker 2: always every generation has a popular yellow character.
[15:33] Speaker 1: Simpson's Onions, SpongeBob, SpongeBob Well, especially like animated.
[15:41] Speaker 2: Okay I found the video. Sorry, okay, so it's it's
[15:45] Speaker 2: pac Man's in there, tweeties in there, and Pikachu's in there. Yes,
[15:49] Speaker 2: SpongeBob Minions, Simpson bart Well.
[15:53] Speaker 1: I mean like and I'm like, when you're looking at
[15:56] Speaker 1: the emojis, like yellow is like kind of the universal person, right,
[16:03] Speaker 1: Like you could pick white people emojis, or black people
[16:06] Speaker 1: emojis or brown, but like yellow is kind of just
[16:09] Speaker 1: like it's more universal. It's like not like a race.
[16:12] Speaker 2: Well, because there is a theory, someone talks about it.
[16:14] Speaker 2: I think with a Nicole Buyer that like are the
[16:17] Speaker 2: Simpsons black because all their hair texture looks kind of black.
[16:20] Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, yes, I think I saw that.
[16:22] Speaker 2: But then like doctor Hibber and there are other black characters,
[16:25] Speaker 2: so I do wonder, I do wonder.
[16:28] Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, Nicole just had a stare parrel on
[16:32] Speaker 1: her podcast and I was like, I can't believe you
[16:34] Speaker 1: had a stare parrel and she goes, truly everybody is
[16:38] Speaker 1: so gagged, and I knew nothing about her. I was like, wow,
[16:42] Speaker 1: like I would listen to that woman read the phone.
[16:44] Speaker 2: Book My episode's coming out soon with Nicole. I taped
[16:46] Speaker 2: it the same day as Rachel reads, So I wonder
[16:49] Speaker 2: when mine's gonna come out.
[16:51] Speaker 1: Oh, but I'm run into each other? No, say no,
[16:55] Speaker 1: did I not tell you this? No.
[16:57] Speaker 2: I get to the studio immediately I noticed a heated
[17:00] Speaker 2: rivalry book on the desk, and then I go and
[17:02] Speaker 2: then I turned to the right and there's like a
[17:04] Speaker 2: little sticker thing and it says to Nicole from Rachel
[17:06] Speaker 2: read in her handwriting. I go, what the fuck is
[17:09] Speaker 2: going on here? And they're like, Rachel left like maybe
[17:11] Speaker 2: five minutes ago. Oh no, And so I DMed Rachel
[17:16] Speaker 2: a photo of me and Nicole and I was like,
[17:17] Speaker 2: are you fucking kidding me? And she wrote like no,
[17:19] Speaker 2: with a bunch of exclamation points, So I was happy
[17:22] Speaker 2: about that.
[17:23] Speaker 1: My god, I forgot you guys are buddies.
[17:25] Speaker 2: Well I don't know about that, but she you know,
[17:28] Speaker 2: we've DMed, we've DMed.
[17:31] Speaker 1: I'd say your Twitter friends as we recently, we're Twitter friends.
[17:35] Speaker 2: We're in the friends for sure. I think if I'm
[17:38] Speaker 2: ever in Nova Scotia to like hit her up.
[17:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, but I saw a.
[17:43] Speaker 2: Really cute drawing of her in the whole cast and
[17:45] Speaker 2: I was going to DM it to her, but then
[17:47] Speaker 2: she reposted it, so she already saw it. So I
[17:49] Speaker 2: was just glad.
[17:51] Speaker 1: I don't want to bother her too much, you know, Yeah? Yeah, yeah.
[17:54] Speaker 2: Don't we need her writing her book.
[17:57] Speaker 1: To get back to work, bitch. You don't want her
[17:59] Speaker 1: to turn into a George R. R. Martin or whatever. Yeah,
[18:02] Speaker 1: stop whenever a final book.
[18:03] Speaker 2: Stop with the events and the parties and the speaking engagements,
[18:06] Speaker 2: and get to.
[18:06] Speaker 1: Work, get horny and get some shit down on paper.
[18:12] Speaker 2: No, but I'm actually so grateful for her Q and
[18:15] Speaker 2: a's because like she's just because someone asks her, is
[18:20] Speaker 2: it hard to write right now? Like do you think
[18:22] Speaker 2: of the two actors, like is it hard and knowing
[18:24] Speaker 2: they're gonna act it out and the yadayada. But she's like, no,
[18:27] Speaker 2: these characters have been with me longer than these guys,
[18:29] Speaker 2: Like I don't really think about it. Yeah, she's incredible,
[18:35] Speaker 2: She's so cool.
[18:39] Speaker 1: Should we start? Yeah, all right, let's let's get started.
[18:42] Speaker 1: We've got a great episode today as always, guys. That's
[18:46] Speaker 1: messed Up Live dot com is where you can get
[18:48] Speaker 1: the Louise Lewis Lewis Louis Lewis shirt of your Dreams,
[18:53] Speaker 1: as well as some other merch that I believe is
[18:56] Speaker 1: like on sale, some of our older stuff. And I'm
[18:57] Speaker 1: gonna be in pe Town baby. Oh yeah. Check out
[19:01] Speaker 1: Lisa and Pete Town. You can at that same website.
[19:04] Speaker 1: You can get to Lisa's website, I can with all
[19:07] Speaker 1: her tour dates. You can also get extra extra fun
[19:12] Speaker 1: with us over at our Patreon Patreon dot com slash
[19:16] Speaker 1: That's messed Up. We've got fun stuff going on over there,
[19:20] Speaker 1: and yeah, let's get going. All right, So today we
[19:29] Speaker 1: are doing Murdered at a Bad Address. This is from
[19:32] Speaker 1: season twenty one. It's episode six, came out on Halloween
[19:37] Speaker 1: excuse me twenty nineteen. Thank you for mentioning that Rozie
[19:41] Speaker 1: first Halloween and wait, yeah, she was Rosie the Riveter.
[19:47] Speaker 2: This is really cute remember that. Wait also one of
[19:52] Speaker 2: my favorite actresses in this episode.
[19:54] Speaker 1: Ooh, let me know when we get there, I will.
[19:58] Speaker 1: So we open on casual Saturday, Benson with the cow
[20:02] Speaker 1: well sex. I don't know why, no Benson causually having sex.
[20:07] Speaker 1: We wish. I mean, we open on casual Saturday, Benson
[20:10] Speaker 1: with Noah, you know, walking through the city. It's a
[20:12] Speaker 1: sunny ass day. He's like, can I get ice cream?
[20:14] Speaker 1: And she's like before dinner. He's like please, And then
[20:17] Speaker 1: someone calls out Olivia's name and it's her long lost brother,
[20:20] Speaker 1: Simon Marsden, who we all remember she tracked down in
[20:24] Speaker 1: season eight. He was in the episodes Philadelphia, Florida and Screwed,
[20:29] Speaker 1: and then he was back in season thirteen Child's Welfare
[20:34] Speaker 1: where he was like asking live to help with his
[20:35] Speaker 1: family issue, and now here he is again in season
[20:39] Speaker 1: twenty one, and he and Noah introduced each other themselves
[20:43] Speaker 1: to each other, and Benson tells Noah go get some
[20:46] Speaker 1: ice cream. Run along. She says run along, which I
[20:48] Speaker 1: think is like so funny, it's like from a book.
[20:51] Speaker 1: And Noah's like Simon's like, who's Noah And she's like,
[20:55] Speaker 1: Noah's my son. And he's like, I have a nephew
[20:57] Speaker 1: and you didn't tell me and she's like uh and
[20:59] Speaker 1: he's basically like, yeah, that's on me.
[21:02] Speaker 2: I know.
[21:02] Speaker 1: I haven't been in touch in like seven seasons. And
[21:05] Speaker 1: she's like, what are you doing here, Like I haven't
[21:08] Speaker 1: heard from you. And he's like, well, I move back
[21:09] Speaker 1: to New Jersey. I'm working at Carpet King And she's like,
[21:13] Speaker 1: what about your family And he's like, well, I don't
[21:17] Speaker 1: know how they're doing. My ex like took the kids
[21:20] Speaker 1: and I haven't seen them since I last saw you,
[21:23] Speaker 1: so seven seasons.
[21:25] Speaker 2: And he said, wasn't he like cleared of the cron
[21:29] Speaker 2: Like what happened? What am I missing? Should I have
[21:33] Speaker 2: done a deep dive, like I don't remember, like I
[21:38] Speaker 2: remember there was issues with his the kids and she
[21:42] Speaker 2: hired Andre Bauer for them.
[21:45] Speaker 1: Maybe it doesn't have to do that.
[21:48] Speaker 2: Other one where like he's accused of a crime but
[21:51] Speaker 2: he was getting framed.
[21:53] Speaker 1: Yes, but I think it has to do with the
[21:54] Speaker 1: fact that he starts using drugs. That's probably why the
[21:57] Speaker 1: wife left. I don't know, but that was that's a
[21:59] Speaker 1: good question. But I feel like it's probably because those
[22:03] Speaker 1: he started doing drugs, because then he's like, I thought
[22:06] Speaker 1: about asking you to help me track them down, but
[22:08] Speaker 1: I always end up making more trouble for you. And
[22:11] Speaker 1: he's like, let me make it up to you. Can
[22:12] Speaker 1: I take you and know what a lunch and lives
[22:15] Speaker 1: like I do not want to do lunch and he's begging.
[22:17] Speaker 1: He's like, come on, please don't say no. I've been
[22:19] Speaker 1: clean for five years. And he like shows his arms
[22:22] Speaker 1: to her. So I'm like assuming he was like doing
[22:25] Speaker 1: heroin or something, or maybe it's to show that he's
[22:28] Speaker 1: not shaking. I don't know, but like he's like, you're
[22:32] Speaker 1: my only family. Please, like Wednesday, it's my day off.
[22:34] Speaker 1: You pick the place, you pick the time, anywhere you
[22:36] Speaker 1: want to go, I'll show up. And she gives it.
[22:40] Speaker 1: You know, he's your only family in the entire world.
[22:42] Speaker 1: And she didn't even know he existed until, you know,
[22:45] Speaker 1: thirteen years ago.
[22:46] Speaker 2: And at least he's self aware that he's caused a
[22:49] Speaker 2: lot of problems for her.
[22:50] Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, And then we cut to a hospital where
[22:54] Speaker 1: a cutie young girl is like tucking this elderly patient
[22:56] Speaker 1: into her bed and telling her how Bronx has eight
[23:01] Speaker 1: graduates who have won Nobel Prizes and she's gonna be
[23:03] Speaker 1: the ninth. And my cousin did go to Bronx Science.
[23:06] Speaker 1: It's a very good school. And she's like, I don't
[23:09] Speaker 1: think he's gonna win a Nobel prize. Sorry if you're
[23:11] Speaker 1: listening bash, but he's very smart. And her name is
[23:15] Speaker 1: Loope this girl, and now Loope is on the streets
[23:18] Speaker 1: and she's walking, she's eating an ice cream and she's
[23:22] Speaker 1: unbothered and living her best life, listening to some generic
[23:25] Speaker 1: pop tune about girls ruling the world. That's like me
[23:29] Speaker 1: and my girls are in charge or whatever. And these
[23:32] Speaker 1: guys like cat call her and she's like dream on.
[23:36] Speaker 1: One of the guys goes, she's a HERB but smart.
[23:38] Speaker 1: It's hot too, and I fully had to google HERB
[23:43] Speaker 1: even though in contacts I could tell it's like a dork.
[23:46] Speaker 1: But it's kind of funny that the guy goes, yeah,
[23:49] Speaker 1: she's a dork, but I guess being smart is also
[23:50] Speaker 1: hot progressive. And so she's now walking up the stairs
[23:55] Speaker 1: to her apartment building it's not good. We're the cute
[23:59] Speaker 1: pop star girlly moment is over, like it feels dark,
[24:03] Speaker 1: the music is changing, and we feel like someone is
[24:05] Speaker 1: following her. We keep hearing door slam and she lives
[24:09] Speaker 1: in the projects, as I should mention as well, like
[24:11] Speaker 1: she's going through a bunch of dark stairwells, different you know.
[24:14] Speaker 1: And then her ice cream cone drops on the ground
[24:16] Speaker 1: as someone grabs her, puts a hand over her mouth,
[24:19] Speaker 1: and then the purp wraps her headphone cord around her
[24:22] Speaker 1: neck and we hear her like crying, and then we
[24:25] Speaker 1: cut to the credits. So at the crime scene, Rollins arrives,
[24:29] Speaker 1: the crowd is heckling her. They're like five oh is
[24:32] Speaker 1: always five oho minutes late. And then they're like no
[24:34] Speaker 1: city cameras to protect our girls, but plenty of mugshots
[24:37] Speaker 1: for our boys and Finns like we're svu, ma'am, like
[24:40] Speaker 1: we're literally the only people that help people like leave
[24:42] Speaker 1: us alone, And then inside Loope is getting rolled past
[24:46] Speaker 1: them in a stretcher. Cat Tamina is on the scene.
[24:49] Speaker 1: Her name is Lupe Perez. She's fourteen. She was assaulted
[24:52] Speaker 1: in the stairwell. She's in shock. She didn't even want
[24:56] Speaker 1: to leave her sister upstairs alone. So her mom is
[25:00] Speaker 1: working late at a late shift at a donut place,
[25:03] Speaker 1: and the cameras are all busted as usual, and Finn
[25:06] Speaker 1: is surprised to find out that Kat is a former
[25:09] Speaker 1: Projects kid, and she goes, yeah, go honest, and she
[25:11] Speaker 1: goes and there's no such thing as a former Projects kid.
[25:14] Speaker 1: So that's kind of a fun thing about Kat. I
[25:17] Speaker 1: didn't know, not like fun, but an interesting part of
[25:20] Speaker 1: her background that I don't remember.
[25:22] Speaker 2: I wish everyone knows my thoughts. She should have gotten
[25:26] Speaker 2: another she should.
[25:26] Speaker 1: Have gotten on more chances. Finn tells Kat to ride
[25:31] Speaker 1: with Loope to CAAC because they've kind of developed a rapport,
[25:35] Speaker 1: and that's the Child Advocacy Center. So now we're there
[25:39] Speaker 1: and Lupe is telling Kat like, yeah, the exam hurt
[25:43] Speaker 1: and live is like watching through the glass when Caresie
[25:46] Speaker 1: arrives and lives downloading him Like we got nothing on
[25:49] Speaker 1: the rape kit, no fluids, no hairs. I mean I
[25:51] Speaker 1: said this in a recent episode. I don't understand how
[25:54] Speaker 1: these degenerates are not leaving any evidence, Like I really
[25:59] Speaker 1: don't stand like how they're getting that all to happen,
[26:03] Speaker 1: but live like it's one thing to be dexter, you
[26:07] Speaker 1: know what I mean, It's one thing to have a
[26:08] Speaker 1: kill area set up, and like you know how to
[26:11] Speaker 1: or you work in forensics, you know how to cover
[26:13] Speaker 1: these guys. I just don't believe it. But anyway, lives
[26:17] Speaker 1: giving Kat a chance to take the lead on this
[26:21] Speaker 1: like interrogation or not interrogation questioning of Loupe. Lupe's describing
[26:25] Speaker 1: like I was trying to scratch him for DNA. She's
[26:28] Speaker 1: obviously watched us for you before. But she goes, he
[26:31] Speaker 1: had me choked with my headphone cord. She's like, I
[26:33] Speaker 1: remember his hands smelled bad, like a woody smell, and
[26:37] Speaker 1: she was like, like a pencil sharpener smell. And she goes, well,
[26:40] Speaker 1: did he say anything? And Lupe said, he said, okay, Chikita,
[26:44] Speaker 1: do it nice for Poppy. And Lupe was like, you know,
[26:47] Speaker 1: my real dad died, My real Poppy died. And he
[26:50] Speaker 1: said if I didn't do it, he would go upstairs
[26:52] Speaker 1: to my little sister Giselle. And so now we know
[26:56] Speaker 1: this guy knows this family somehow, right, And she says,
[27:00] Speaker 1: then he pulled down my pants and she's like, please,
[27:02] Speaker 1: don't tell anyone. I don't want anyone to know. She's
[27:04] Speaker 1: like immediately like feeling this shame. So it's really sad.
[27:09] Speaker 1: And then Benson and Rollins are now talking to Lupe's
[27:12] Speaker 1: mom and she was like, I was working. My husband
[27:15] Speaker 1: died two years ago from that nine to eleven cancer.
[27:18] Speaker 1: And she starts crying, blaming herself. It's like her second job.
[27:21] Speaker 1: And they were like, they're like, it's not your fault,
[27:23] Speaker 1: like we think he knew her. And is there anyone,
[27:26] Speaker 1: like a neighbor or a teacher that you've seen paying
[27:28] Speaker 1: too much attention? But the mom says no, Like she's
[27:31] Speaker 1: a RG she's always at the library, in the lab
[27:33] Speaker 1: or she's babysitting her sister.
[27:35] Speaker 2: Everyone's just roasting this girl.
[27:37] Speaker 1: Yeah, but she's look, she's got her eye on the
[27:39] Speaker 1: Nobel prize. And then at the precinct, the gang is brainstorming.
[27:44] Speaker 1: They're like, well, we cleared all the registered sex offenders.
[27:47] Speaker 1: That was quick. They found all the registered sex offenders
[27:49] Speaker 1: and they were all busy, no witnesses. Kat says that
[27:54] Speaker 1: Loop said the guy smelled like wood callous hands, maybe
[27:56] Speaker 1: like a worker at the projects. Suddenly Rollins gets a
[27:59] Speaker 1: hit on the touch DNA from Loupe's headphones and done, done,
[28:03] Speaker 1: they match a double homicide rape in the wave View
[28:08] Speaker 1: projects in far Rockaway from two thousand and three. So
[28:12] Speaker 1: now Live is breaking it down. She goes, this is
[28:14] Speaker 1: a closed rape and double murder from sixteen years ago.
[28:16] Speaker 1: So was the DNA tested by mistake? And they said,
[28:22] Speaker 1: that's what's confusing to me, Like why was the DNA
[28:25] Speaker 1: not tested originally? Because the touch DNA that was found
[28:30] Speaker 1: on Loope's headphones was found under the fingernails of both
[28:33] Speaker 1: victims in the two thousand and three case, and that
[28:37] Speaker 1: was a mom who was strangled to death and her
[28:39] Speaker 1: daughter was sexually assaulted and then strangled to death. So
[28:42] Speaker 1: two kids were collared for this, a fifteen year old
[28:44] Speaker 1: who turned States on Carlos Hernandez, who was eighteen and
[28:48] Speaker 1: was the son and brother of the victims. But neither
[28:51] Speaker 1: of their DNA matches what they found on Loope, So
[28:54] Speaker 1: there was a third accomplice who was never caught, Like,
[28:57] Speaker 1: I don't understand why they wouldn't have kept looking for
[29:00] Speaker 1: that person. Carlos is serving twenty five to life in
[29:03] Speaker 1: green Haven and Finn's like dude with a bid that long.
[29:07] Speaker 1: I don't know if this guy hasn't talked already, he's
[29:09] Speaker 1: not going to talk now, and about like a third
[29:11] Speaker 1: accomplice essentially, and lives like, well, maybe he'll think he
[29:14] Speaker 1: can cut a deal if he sees a DA. And
[29:17] Speaker 1: the other guy, Ricardo, who goes by Ricky, he got
[29:20] Speaker 1: out a year ago and he's back in the Far
[29:23] Speaker 1: Rockaway Projects and his PO is on vacation. So Rollins
[29:27] Speaker 1: is like, so this guy's doing life for murdering his mom,
[29:33] Speaker 1: raping and murdering his sister. And there was a third
[29:36] Speaker 1: set of DNA on the victims, and Finn's like, yeah,
[29:39] Speaker 1: why check DNA when you have confessions and Kat goes, yeah,
[29:43] Speaker 1: it's the projects. They were murdered at a bad address,
[29:46] Speaker 1: and that's it's Chinatown, Jake, you know that's Kat's naming
[29:51] Speaker 1: the episode. So drink, I guess unless you're driving. Finn
[29:55] Speaker 1: and Careesi are at green Haven talking to Carlos Hernandez,
[29:58] Speaker 1: who is played by Guiermo Dia. That's my favorite and
[30:02] Speaker 1: we love him and I love him and everything.
[30:05] Speaker 2: Favorite guy. He's so talented and he's so hot and
[30:08] Speaker 2: he's so cool and.
[30:09] Speaker 1: He's also I'm realizing I really thought I looked this
[30:13] Speaker 1: up last night, and maybe I didn't.
[30:15] Speaker 2: He was an o OC eight episodes or three teams.
[30:20] Speaker 1: He was in OC, but he was in another episode
[30:25] Speaker 1: of SVU called Justice Denied from season thirteen, which is
[30:30] Speaker 1: a Bayard Ellis episode that is also about being wrongly convicted.
[30:34] Speaker 1: Sorry to like ruin it now, but I think we're
[30:36] Speaker 1: going to find out. So Omar Pana is in the
[30:40] Speaker 1: Navy and they got him to confess. Benson got him
[30:45] Speaker 1: to confess, but he's been claiming his innocence ever since
[30:50] Speaker 1: then and said the confession was made under duress. So
[30:54] Speaker 1: that's what happens. But okay, so back to this episode.
[31:00] Speaker 1: We love Gierramo Diaz, so he's Carlos Hernandez and they're like,
[31:03] Speaker 1: come on, Carlos, we know there was a third guy
[31:05] Speaker 1: with you. And he goes, oh, okay, so you know
[31:07] Speaker 1: who did it? And he goes because it wasn't me
[31:09] Speaker 1: and Ricky. I could never hurt my mom and sister.
[31:11] Speaker 1: And he says that night he and Ricky were just
[31:13] Speaker 1: hanging and they go, well, why'd you confess then, and
[31:16] Speaker 1: he goes, well, they told Ricky he'd cut a deal.
[31:18] Speaker 1: And be out in fifteen. And they told Carlos if
[31:21] Speaker 1: he didn't confess, he'd get the death penalty. So they're saying,
[31:25] Speaker 1: give up your accomplice to him and we'll cut a
[31:28] Speaker 1: deal with you. And he's like, what accomplice. I wasn't
[31:30] Speaker 1: even there when it happened. I swear to god. I
[31:33] Speaker 1: came home and I saw my mom and my sister
[31:35] Speaker 1: dead and CARIESI asks him where him and Ricky were
[31:38] Speaker 1: hanging out the night and he looks at the CEO
[31:40] Speaker 1: in the room and then turns back and he goes,
[31:43] Speaker 1: I can't say, and Finn's like, this guy's lying, but
[31:46] Speaker 1: Carlo's like, I'm not, and then he goes, look at
[31:48] Speaker 1: this letter Ricky wrote me he's and he shows them
[31:51] Speaker 1: this handwritten letter from Ricky that like apologizes for getting
[31:54] Speaker 1: him put away, and he goes, you know, we weren't
[31:56] Speaker 1: angels back then, but I love my mom. I would
[31:58] Speaker 1: never have done that to her. And Finn's like, well,
[32:01] Speaker 1: cough up an Alibia, We're done here, and Carlos goes,
[32:03] Speaker 1: thank you for your visit and leaves. So something is
[32:07] Speaker 1: not adding up here. Rollins and Tammine roll up on
[32:10] Speaker 1: this woman named Savannah Baker, and she looks like her
[32:12] Speaker 1: name is Savannah. She's an older woman with a Southern accent,
[32:15] Speaker 1: and she's like, the kids call me Mom's Baker. And
[32:18] Speaker 1: they're asking if she knows where Ricky is, and she's
[32:21] Speaker 1: defending the two boys, saying Carlos wouldn't hurt a june bug,
[32:25] Speaker 1: and if Ricky threw himself on the floor, he'd miss
[32:27] Speaker 1: and he goes, where I come from, this is called railroading,
[32:30] Speaker 1: and then he goes. She goes, right, honey, to Rollins,
[32:34] Speaker 1: because she could just tell Rollins this is a Southern
[32:35] Speaker 1: girl right away, and she says the detective and the
[32:39] Speaker 1: prosecutor had the wrong boys, but they didn't care. And
[32:42] Speaker 1: she said Ricky came out of jail a year ago
[32:44] Speaker 1: with not with the bug and they're like, oh HIV
[32:47] Speaker 1: and she's like, no, full blown aids. I told he
[32:51] Speaker 1: told moms that he had lied on Carlos and then
[32:55] Speaker 1: sadly he passed away last week. She goes, you know
[32:58] Speaker 1: who's responsible for Ricky's death? Detective who brought these guys in?
[33:01] Speaker 1: Why don't you talk to his ass? So now we're
[33:03] Speaker 1: at Detective Monty's place and this guy lives obviously in
[33:09] Speaker 1: Staten Island, and he's just like a lug nut of
[33:12] Speaker 1: a man. He looks like he's choking down a piece
[33:14] Speaker 1: of meat while he's trying to talk to Rolinson to
[33:16] Speaker 1: me and they're like, so you're retiring down to Florida
[33:19] Speaker 1: and he's like, yeah, I spent my whole life colloring
[33:21] Speaker 1: low LIFs like Ricky and Carloston. I don't want to
[33:24] Speaker 1: die in the snow. And then then they cut out
[33:28] Speaker 1: to show his above ground pool, you know, feels like
[33:30] Speaker 1: a dig and then he asks Cariesy Carisi, you related
[33:35] Speaker 1: to Tony Nooe's Carisi up in Tote Hill, and Carisy goes,
[33:39] Speaker 1: I don't know. My mom says all Caris's are related anyway,
[33:42] Speaker 1: and the guy is like gross, He's like he's saying
[33:44] Speaker 1: all this shit. He goes, I saw the scene and
[33:47] Speaker 1: I knew it had to be Banjos or Bongos racist.
[33:51] Speaker 1: He said the vics were prs. I don't know if
[33:54] Speaker 1: that's Puerto Ricans. The mother was a crack pouton. The
[33:58] Speaker 1: daughter was thirteen but built like she was twenty three.
[34:01] Speaker 1: So he's also a pervert. And he goes, Carlos was
[34:06] Speaker 1: a big dopey, strewns horny as a bag of cats,
[34:09] Speaker 1: and Rowins is like, really for his own sister, and
[34:12] Speaker 1: he goes, yeah, Ricky flipped in like an hour, we
[34:15] Speaker 1: cleared it. Why do you too care? And they explained
[34:18] Speaker 1: the DNA hit like on the Loope case, and he
[34:21] Speaker 1: goes and this dumb fuck says, well, I know it
[34:24] Speaker 1: wasn't their first time. There were like three or four
[34:27] Speaker 1: rapes of teenage girls at other projects. So he doesn't
[34:31] Speaker 1: address the fact that he never looked into this other
[34:32] Speaker 1: set of fingerprints. He just says, I knew it was
[34:36] Speaker 1: these guys. There were other rapes around. They confess that's it.
[34:39] Speaker 1: So back at the precincts, Cat is digging into some
[34:42] Speaker 1: Canoli's that Careesi brought from Staten Island, and Yum Caresy
[34:47] Speaker 1: thinks these confessions were coerced. We're not looking for a
[34:50] Speaker 1: third guy. We're looking for the guy who got away
[34:52] Speaker 1: with it, and maybe this guy's a serial who's been
[34:54] Speaker 1: at it for sixteen years. They're gonna cross reference the
[34:57] Speaker 1: maintenance workers at Loupe's building to see if any of
[34:59] Speaker 1: them worked out wave View sixteen years ago. So a
[35:02] Speaker 1: little later they're reviewing the info, and they found twelve
[35:05] Speaker 1: housing project rapes around the time of these two thousand
[35:10] Speaker 1: and three murders, and the vics were like twelve or
[35:12] Speaker 1: thirteen same memo, strangled with the cord, nobody saw his face.
[35:16] Speaker 1: So they also found eighteen guys that worked at both
[35:20] Speaker 1: places that were workers, but ten of them can be
[35:23] Speaker 1: ruled out because they're either black, dead, or disabled, and
[35:25] Speaker 1: like none of the girls all described them as being
[35:28] Speaker 1: white or Hispanic, so they could rule out some of them.
[35:31] Speaker 1: So we need warrants for the remaining eight guys who
[35:33] Speaker 1: worked at both projects and fit the timeline, and Chrisey's like,
[35:36] Speaker 1: wanta you ask for nine? Why not make it a
[35:38] Speaker 1: full baseball team? And then they're like He's like, you
[35:41] Speaker 1: got a narrow it down. A judge's never going to
[35:43] Speaker 1: sign off on this for me. And then Live leaves
[35:45] Speaker 1: Rollins to like run down these eight dudes, and she's like,
[35:48] Speaker 1: I got to run to lunch with my brother and
[35:50] Speaker 1: Rollins is like, what's he want? And she's like to
[35:54] Speaker 1: get to know Noah and he goes and Rollins goes
[35:57] Speaker 1: you believe him, Like she's giving Benson a little bit
[35:59] Speaker 1: of s and Benson goes, I do, and she walks out,
[36:03] Speaker 1: and now we're at the Jacob Lawrence Houses, which is
[36:05] Speaker 1: where Loope lives, and Finn goes to question this guy
[36:07] Speaker 1: Tim Stanton, who is played by Happy Anderson and Like.
[36:12] Speaker 1: He's in another episode of as View called Hardwired, and
[36:14] Speaker 1: has also played Jerry Brudos in two separate projects, including
[36:20] Speaker 1: Mine Hunter. One of my favorites whoa Jerry Brudos is
[36:24] Speaker 1: the lust Killer, the shoe fetish slayer. Jerry Brudos is
[36:28] Speaker 1: also someone who's crime we covered in the season four
[36:31] Speaker 1: episode Tortured. It's episode one hundred and fifty three of
[36:33] Speaker 1: our podcast in case you're wanting to revisit. But that's
[36:37] Speaker 1: kind of interesting that this guy like keeps playing this
[36:39] Speaker 1: like you know, he's like a redhead. He keeps playing
[36:42] Speaker 1: this killer. So they want to talk to him, but
[36:45] Speaker 1: he's like, I'm really busy, and he's like, what do
[36:48] Speaker 1: you want. There's all kinds of sketchy people around here,
[36:50] Speaker 1: and I don't really have a head for faces, and
[36:53] Speaker 1: Rollins is like, that's cool. Why do not just give
[36:55] Speaker 1: us your DNA and we can exclude you And he's like,
[36:57] Speaker 1: my DNA in the system that ain't happening. Who know
[37:00] Speaker 1: that is what the government's going to do with that.
[37:01] Speaker 1: He's like, I feel sorry for the girl, but I
[37:03] Speaker 1: got places to be so Rob Rollin's is about to
[37:07] Speaker 1: call Careesi because this is the first dude to refuse,
[37:11] Speaker 1: but then eagle eye Finn spots I guess a cigarette,
[37:15] Speaker 1: but I couldn't make out what it was, but he
[37:16] Speaker 1: picks up something out of the ground and grabs it
[37:18] Speaker 1: with a cloth and he's like, don't even worry about it,
[37:21] Speaker 1: Like we got him. So Live is at lunch with
[37:24] Speaker 1: Noah waiting on Simon, telling Rollins okay, like put a
[37:27] Speaker 1: rush on it, and Simon isn't there yet. Noah's impatient.
[37:30] Speaker 1: He doesn't want to miss dance class.
[37:33] Speaker 2: On Noah's side, sorry he should't have to miss dance class.
[37:37] Speaker 1: But like, just get a BLT before dance class. Everybody
[37:40] Speaker 1: calmed down, you know, like what I ordered?
[37:43] Speaker 2: Order?
[37:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, Like you have a kid with you, nobody cares
[37:46] Speaker 1: if you order. So Benson's like shaking her head and
[37:50] Speaker 1: she's like telling the waitress, can you look out for him?
[37:53] Speaker 1: Check one more time if he's in the restaurant. My brother,
[37:56] Speaker 1: who looks kind of like twenty thousand other people in
[37:58] Speaker 1: New York City, and then she calls Simon and she
[38:01] Speaker 1: leaves him for Benson. I would say a scathing voicemail, going,
[38:05] Speaker 1: I knew this was a bad idea. Don't call me back. Actually,
[38:08] Speaker 1: just don't ever call me.
[38:10] Speaker 2: And yeah, I.
[38:12] Speaker 1: Was like, just gotta belt before dance class. But then
[38:15] Speaker 1: that's the end of act one. So then the next morning,
[38:18] Speaker 1: Tamen confirms that Stanton's ID is a match for Loupe's
[38:21] Speaker 1: case and the case of the two other girls. So
[38:22] Speaker 1: now fu once again, once again an amazing actor. You know,
[38:28] Speaker 1: like this guy didn't even flinch when they were acting
[38:30] Speaker 1: about these crimes, right, He's like.
[38:32] Speaker 2: No, I loved the line read because it was also
[38:34] Speaker 2: really casual. I feel like sometimes when people reject DNA
[38:39] Speaker 2: tests and stuff their aggressive or like he really was.
[38:42] Speaker 1: Like, yeah, I don't know, I don't in the system.
[38:46] Speaker 2: Like the line read was so casual and I appreciated it.
[38:53] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, he's definitely kind of like not giving guilty,
[38:57] Speaker 1: except for the fact that he refused the DNA, which
[38:59] Speaker 1: is like, honestly, something Munch would do. You know, Munch
[39:02] Speaker 1: is like, I'm not getting my benning these days. Everyone
[39:04] Speaker 1: would Yes, yes, So now everyone is fired up to
[39:09] Speaker 1: get this guy. But Benson's like, hold up, touch DNA
[39:12] Speaker 1: on the headphones isn't super strong? Why don't we see
[39:15] Speaker 1: if Lupe can I d this guy. They're gonna try
[39:17] Speaker 1: to get Stanton into a lineup again, like why would
[39:20] Speaker 1: he do that? He's so busy, he's got places to be.
[39:24] Speaker 2: And they're gonna say, that's like another thing he did
[39:26] Speaker 2: really well where it's like he was busy working, but
[39:29] Speaker 2: he wasn't like rushing. It was like a slow demeanor.
[39:33] Speaker 2: I guess that's what it is, that like help, the casualness, but.
[39:37] Speaker 1: He wasn't doing that thing like in the sketch that
[39:39] Speaker 1: they did where it was like people like moving boxes
[39:42] Speaker 1: like aggressively while they're talking to detectives.
[39:45] Speaker 2: But also this part of the episode is ridiculous, Oh well,
[39:51] Speaker 2: just say he needed a help. Why not? It's like,
[39:52] Speaker 2: why would they pick any other officer in this bustling building,
[39:56] Speaker 2: Like what the fuck are you talking about?
[39:58] Speaker 1: They're like, we're gonna say that we need his help
[40:01] Speaker 1: nailing the guy that we think we got the guy,
[40:04] Speaker 1: And I guess maybe they sometimes depend on some of
[40:08] Speaker 1: these serial guys, like serial rapist serial murderers are always
[40:12] Speaker 1: kind of cocky about wanting to be close to the
[40:15] Speaker 1: investigation but not get caught. So maybe like them saying, hey,
[40:20] Speaker 1: we're gonna come in for a lineup. We want you
[40:22] Speaker 1: to come in for a lineup, but it's to exclude
[40:24] Speaker 1: someone else we think we got the guy was like
[40:27] Speaker 1: a perfect thing for him to be like, Okay, I'll
[40:29] Speaker 1: get closer to this, but like, I'm safe, right. I
[40:32] Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know what they're thinking. I don't
[40:33] Speaker 1: know why in the world the guy would say yes,
[40:35] Speaker 1: But yeah, they're like, well he thinks the cops. I
[40:37] Speaker 1: think that's a totally good Yeah, they say, he thinks
[40:41] Speaker 1: the cops always fuck up, so maybe he'll go for this.
[40:43] Speaker 1: So then in Benson's offense, she tells Rollins, you know,
[40:46] Speaker 1: we could also have Loope do a voice id, and
[40:49] Speaker 1: then Rollins is like, okay, cool, I want to apologize
[40:52] Speaker 1: to you for being out of line when I was,
[40:55] Speaker 1: you know, talking shit about Simon with my eyes, you know,
[40:58] Speaker 1: And Benson's like, no, you aren't out of line, and
[41:02] Speaker 1: she's like, I don't need to confuse Noah about his
[41:05] Speaker 1: life anymore or his past, and that door is staying closed,
[41:08] Speaker 1: so she, you know, is telling Rollins like, actually, your
[41:13] Speaker 1: instincts were correct. So now they're at the lineup. They
[41:16] Speaker 1: actually got Stanton to do it, and they ask all
[41:19] Speaker 1: the guys to say, Okay, Shakita, do it nice for
[41:21] Speaker 1: Poppy that line, and then they get the first guy
[41:24] Speaker 1: to say it, and then Stanton goes, I don't feel
[41:26] Speaker 1: comfortable saying this, and immediately Lupe is like, it's him.
[41:29] Speaker 1: It's him, it's him, Like he just he makes such
[41:32] Speaker 1: a big deal being like I don't want to say
[41:34] Speaker 1: this or whatever. And now they've got Stanton in cement
[41:37] Speaker 1: room bars claiming to have done work in Loupe's apartment.
[41:40] Speaker 1: So that's I moved the headphones out of the way
[41:42] Speaker 1: so she wouldn't they wouldn't get wet when I was
[41:44] Speaker 1: working on the sink, you know, like and they're like, okay, yeah,
[41:47] Speaker 1: and let's say you.
[41:48] Speaker 2: Did do that, Like why would you ever remember that?
[41:50] Speaker 2: Like even remembering touching a headphone because of the sink
[41:52] Speaker 2: is like a right, a.
[41:54] Speaker 1: Clue you've been yeah, and they're they're like, yeah, but
[41:57] Speaker 1: it also popped on this case from sixteen years ago,
[42:00] Speaker 1: and he goes the double murder and it's like, maybe
[42:02] Speaker 1: don't act like you know exactly what other crime they're
[42:05] Speaker 1: talking about. Like, if you've been working at the projects
[42:08] Speaker 1: for sixteen years, between various projects, you've seen a couple
[42:11] Speaker 1: other people end up dead somehow, right like, and you
[42:15] Speaker 1: immediately go the double murder like you like okay again,
[42:23] Speaker 1: he goes, well, if my DNA was at their house
[42:25] Speaker 1: or at the place of that double murder, it's because
[42:26] Speaker 1: I was working in their apartment and they're like under
[42:29] Speaker 1: their fingernails, like your DNA was under their fingernails. And
[42:33] Speaker 1: then he goes, I think I need a lawyer, So hey,
[42:34] Speaker 1: you lawyers up, and Benson says it's hard to pin
[42:37] Speaker 1: a double murder on this guy when two guys have
[42:39] Speaker 1: already gone down for it, and Careesy tells them, why
[42:42] Speaker 1: don't you have arrest stance in based on Lupe's voice ID.
[42:45] Speaker 1: Then he goes to green Haven and they're showing him picks.
[42:48] Speaker 1: They're showing Carlos picks of different handymen, right, and Finn
[42:52] Speaker 1: is explaining to him how to use an iPad. He goes,
[42:55] Speaker 1: you just swipe because he's been in jail for sixteen years,
[42:57] Speaker 1: right like, there was no swipe technology. He picks out Stanton.
[43:01] Speaker 1: He goes, this guy, Yeah, we waited over a year
[43:04] Speaker 1: for him to come fix my mom's kitchen cabinet. He's positive.
[43:07] Speaker 1: I remember because there was a family of mice living
[43:09] Speaker 1: under the kitchen sink and I was too scared to
[43:11] Speaker 1: open it. He goes, now, I live with rats, and yeah,
[43:14] Speaker 1: he simply doesn't sound like a guy who would have
[43:16] Speaker 1: murdered and raped his own sister and mother. He's too
[43:18] Speaker 1: scared to open a cabinet because of mice, Like, that's
[43:21] Speaker 1: not this. It's just like a classic example of how
[43:25] Speaker 1: truly murdered at a bad address. Like you don't get
[43:28] Speaker 1: a good lawyer, you don't get like any kind of
[43:32] Speaker 1: benefit of the doubt at all. And this kid clearly
[43:35] Speaker 1: doesn't seem like someone from the family had to come
[43:38] Speaker 1: home and find the bodies. You know, why would you
[43:40] Speaker 1: just assume it's this kid? But I guess he wouldn't
[43:42] Speaker 1: get up his alibis. So he remembers Stanton asking his
[43:45] Speaker 1: sister Jacinta to show him her Shakira dance moves, and
[43:48] Speaker 1: he thought that was weird. So there was no forced entry,
[43:51] Speaker 1: which means they probably let him in. You always let
[43:54] Speaker 1: those guys in, right, they think it's possible. They're like,
[43:57] Speaker 1: but why would he kill them? They're like, well, we
[43:59] Speaker 1: think it's possible. He was assaulting your sister and then
[44:02] Speaker 1: your mom came home and he had to kill them
[44:05] Speaker 1: both to shut them up because now they've seen him
[44:07] Speaker 1: and everything, so he had and they're like, did he confess?
[44:10] Speaker 1: And they're like no, and he's like, well, with this
[44:13] Speaker 1: DNA and with Ricky testifying, and that's when they have
[44:16] Speaker 1: to break it to him that Ricky is no longer
[44:19] Speaker 1: with us, and Cariese says, we have the DNA and
[44:23] Speaker 1: Ricky's letter, the Queen's DA will take a look, and
[44:26] Speaker 1: then he goes, is the Queen's DA still keen? Finn
[44:29] Speaker 1: goes sixteen years like the Mummy's hand. This guy won
[44:32] Speaker 1: his election to be DA off of Carlos's conviction, and
[44:36] Speaker 1: Carisey goes, but I know a guy in the DA's
[44:38] Speaker 1: office in Queens who I trust. So he cut to
[44:40] Speaker 1: Cares at a restaurant and who walks in but prison
[44:43] Speaker 1: Break hottie Wentworth Miller and he is playing Queen's Ada
[44:48] Speaker 1: Isaiah Holmes, and he asks, how's the jump from Detective
[44:52] Speaker 1: to eightya going, and Carisey goes, I miss my gun
[44:55] Speaker 1: and the pay cuts no fun. And I was shocked
[44:57] Speaker 1: to hear this because I think of Barbara is like, so,
[45:01] Speaker 1: Bougie's going skiing in stad and like, you know, like
[45:04] Speaker 1: wearing nice suits and shit. So I but I googled
[45:08] Speaker 1: it and in my rough google it said that Manhattan
[45:11] Speaker 1: Detectives make and this is now obviously, but this episode's
[45:14] Speaker 1: only from seven years ago make around one hundred and
[45:18] Speaker 1: twenty to one hundred and thirty seven K, and an
[45:20] Speaker 1: Ada straight off of passing the bar makes ninety K
[45:24] Speaker 1: to start, but then it increases.
[45:28] Speaker 2: Barbara, do you think he worked in the private sector
[45:31] Speaker 2: then went to go do defense maybe or does other cases?
[45:36] Speaker 2: Because how el because he had that other friend. Maybe
[45:41] Speaker 2: he just dresses nice, like maybe he met at what yeah,
[45:44] Speaker 2: what I mean.
[45:44] Speaker 1: He went to Harvard, so that's how he's like met
[45:46] Speaker 1: some of these other guys that are like yeah up,
[45:50] Speaker 1: you know yeah so, but yeah, who knows, I mean,
[45:53] Speaker 1: who knows. Maybe maybe Barbara's got a side hustle. I
[45:56] Speaker 1: have no idea, but he tells Holmes, I still remember
[46:00] Speaker 1: what you said my first year of Fordham law better
[46:03] Speaker 1: one hundred guilty men go free than one innocent man
[46:06] Speaker 1: be condemned, and Holmes goes, you know, I was quoting Voltaire,
[46:09] Speaker 1: and of course Carisi knows that. Cariese's like, I knew that,
[46:13] Speaker 1: but you still said it and I remember it, and
[46:15] Speaker 1: he's like, have you taken a look at the file
[46:17] Speaker 1: and Holmes is like, well, yeah, I looked at it.
[46:19] Speaker 1: Carlos had a terrible lawyer. He and Ricky were kids
[46:22] Speaker 1: and they had their lives taken from them. But he
[46:24] Speaker 1: explains it's hard enough to get a case overturned, let
[46:27] Speaker 1: alone a double homicide plus rape that my boss built
[46:30] Speaker 1: his career on, and Caresee's like, of course, but surely
[46:33] Speaker 1: after he hears the preponderance of his sculpatory evidence, like
[46:37] Speaker 1: the way he said that seventh sentence to me was
[46:39] Speaker 1: hilarious to me, and he goes, oh. Holmes goes, you
[46:44] Speaker 1: don't know about Keene then, and Caresee looks confused. And
[46:47] Speaker 1: now we cut to the top of act three. We're
[46:50] Speaker 1: in Keene's office.
[46:51] Speaker 2: I just can't even believe this part, honest believe, it's
[46:54] Speaker 2: very deep. I'm like, what, why would this be allowed
[46:57] Speaker 2: in real world?
[46:57] Speaker 1: Like what, yes, I mean I don't know. Government is corrupt.
[47:02] Speaker 1: Like if you keep this kind of things under wraps,
[47:05] Speaker 1: then the deputies can kind of like run everything as
[47:07] Speaker 1: puppet masters behind this guy. But essentially they roll this
[47:10] Speaker 1: guy Keen out in a wheelchair. He's out of his mind.
[47:13] Speaker 1: He's in the throes of dementia. He's a second away
[47:16] Speaker 1: from drooling. Yes, he's like looking into the distance talking
[47:21] Speaker 1: to Holmes and Careese like their young law school students,
[47:25] Speaker 1: telling them don't quit law schools, telling them facts about
[47:28] Speaker 1: Shay Stadium. This man has like lost his marbles and
[47:31] Speaker 1: he goes, yeah, just leave the file on my desk.
[47:33] Speaker 1: And you look over to this desk that's just like
[47:35] Speaker 1: teeming with files that this guy's not gonna ever look at, right.
[47:39] Speaker 1: So Kreese's explaining the whole mess to Benson like Stein's
[47:42] Speaker 1: Keene staff has been covering up his dementia. And she's like,
[47:46] Speaker 1: are we talking like in and out or And he's like, no,
[47:50] Speaker 1: we're talking like he didn't know like who we were.
[47:52] Speaker 1: It was like, you know, not good. She's like, can't
[47:55] Speaker 1: someone step up? Like we've got three more hits on
[47:57] Speaker 1: Stanton's DNA plus a witness and Carise he's like, well,
[48:00] Speaker 1: Keene is useless, but maybe Holmes can get Carlos a retrial.
[48:05] Speaker 1: So then a uniform is like, hey, guys, Stanton's lawyer
[48:08] Speaker 1: wants to talk to you guys. So now we're in
[48:09] Speaker 1: cement room bars, Coresi and Benson are across from Stanton
[48:13] Speaker 1: and his lawyer.
[48:14] Speaker 2: And his lawyer is oh, I didn't really recognize him.
[48:20] Speaker 1: Well, his lawyer is not anybody I recognize, but his
[48:23] Speaker 1: name is ron Fredo and he's been in a bunch
[48:27] Speaker 1: of other episodes, like he was in Eternal Relief from
[48:31] Speaker 1: Pain Guardians and Gladiators, Dutch Tears, which is that big
[48:35] Speaker 1: Finn episode, and he was in an episode of shadow
[48:39] Speaker 1: Work that the episode shadow Work, which was a cross
[48:41] Speaker 1: with with OC. It was an episode of OC, but
[48:44] Speaker 1: it was a cross with US few, so we talked
[48:45] Speaker 1: about it. Oh and the episode Carousel he was in,
[48:50] Speaker 1: So yeah, he's he's been out there defending scumbags. But
[48:58] Speaker 1: the lawyer's is sleeves Ball and he's like, can.
[49:00] Speaker 2: You please look at Patrick Kean's IMDb photo Larry Brigman Old,
[49:08] Speaker 2: look at Larry Brickman, b rygg Man.
[49:12] Speaker 1: He looks like he would play Fritzel in a movie
[49:15] Speaker 1: like the guy who had his kids underneath?
[49:17] Speaker 2: Are we looking at the same photo. He's wearing a
[49:19] Speaker 2: sea captain's hat and he's drowning in a water.
[49:21] Speaker 1: Yes, but in the in the other photos that come
[49:23] Speaker 1: up with him from Google, he looks like Fritzel in
[49:26] Speaker 1: the sea captain's hat. It's ridiculous.
[49:28] Speaker 2: Why would that be his IMDb five, I am drowning toothless.
[49:31] Speaker 2: He has no teeth, drowning in a sea captain's hat. Like,
[49:35] Speaker 2: what is happening?
[49:37] Speaker 1: I have no idea. He's in die Hard with a Vengeance.
[49:39] Speaker 1: I don't know what this picture is from. I wish
[49:42] Speaker 1: it would tell us. Oh, Salty from his character's name
[49:48] Speaker 1: is Salty, but I don't know. Hold on, maybe I can.
[49:52] Speaker 1: We got to watch Salty. Okay, wait, wait where is it?
[49:56] Speaker 2: Salty?
[49:57] Speaker 1: Side by Each a movie he's in called side by
[50:00] Speaker 1: Each from two thousand and eight. Salty's in the water
[50:03] Speaker 1: and a captain's hat. Anyway, give it up for Brigman.
[50:06] Speaker 1: He will post it on her install because he's Salty
[50:10] Speaker 1: forever for us. So CARESI and Benson are sitting across
[50:15] Speaker 1: from Stanton and his lawyer Fredo this guy and he's
[50:21] Speaker 1: they're like, will luh, we'll cop to forcible touching in
[50:24] Speaker 1: Loupe's case, and he's like a sleeve ball and he
[50:26] Speaker 1: goes Juri's love me. And they hate cops, especially cops
[50:31] Speaker 1: turn lawyers. I don't know if any jury is ever like,
[50:36] Speaker 1: hey did that da used to be a cop, Like,
[50:38] Speaker 1: I don't think that's happening. But then they're like, well,
[50:42] Speaker 1: we have you on six rapes, so the jury's gonna
[50:44] Speaker 1: hear from Lupe and a lot of other girls and
[50:46] Speaker 1: Cariese's like, if he confesses to the Hernandez murders, maybe
[50:49] Speaker 1: we can swing criminally negligent homicide and rape two on
[50:53] Speaker 1: the other six and Stanton says, I ain't festened to
[50:57] Speaker 1: no crack home murders and I ain't coppin to no
[51:01] Speaker 1: pedo rapes. No short eye please like those Mos Torres
[51:06] Speaker 1: and Hernandez did. He wasn't talking like this before. I
[51:09] Speaker 1: don't understand what a short eye plea is, but it
[51:13] Speaker 1: seems racist. It sounds racist. I don't know what it is.
[51:16] Speaker 1: But they go, well, what do you know about that?
[51:19] Speaker 1: And he goes, I don't know how Carlos lasted sixteen
[51:22] Speaker 1: years at green Haven. Everyone knows he's up, and he
[51:25] Speaker 1: says a the f slur for gay. Right, So this
[51:29] Speaker 1: is an interesting piece of the puzzle that we did
[51:31] Speaker 1: not know about. Damn, you sure know, and I wrote,
[51:35] Speaker 1: I wrote in my notes, Damn you sure know a
[51:36] Speaker 1: lot about some random eighteen year old kid in the
[51:38] Speaker 1: building you did maintenance at sixteen years ago. Like, if
[51:41] Speaker 1: you're innocent, how do you know so much about this
[51:43] Speaker 1: fucking guy, Carlos?
[51:44] Speaker 4: You know?
[51:45] Speaker 1: So they walk out and the lawyer goes, if you
[51:49] Speaker 1: insist to the murders and child rapes, we'll go to
[51:51] Speaker 1: the mat in my ring. He says that to Carees,
[51:54] Speaker 1: So Careese goes, well, Carlos told us he had an
[51:57] Speaker 1: alibi for the night of the murders, but he wouldn't
[51:58] Speaker 1: talk about it, and now maybe you know why. So
[52:01] Speaker 1: now Finn and him are back at green Haven talking
[52:03] Speaker 1: to Carlos about a retrial, and he's like, well, I
[52:06] Speaker 1: can't have the DA asking me any questions, and Cariese's
[52:08] Speaker 1: about to dig into the personal stuff. So Finn turns
[52:11] Speaker 1: to the CEO and goes, can you give me a
[52:13] Speaker 1: few minutes because these guys are like half the time,
[52:17] Speaker 1: like bought by gangs. You can't like say anything in
[52:20] Speaker 1: front of one of these guys, of course. Yeah, So
[52:22] Speaker 1: caries tells him, we know you're gay. Yeah, No, Carisa goes,
[52:28] Speaker 1: nothing you tell us. Yeah. He goes, we think we
[52:32] Speaker 1: know why you're not telling us about your alibi. And
[52:34] Speaker 1: nothing you tell us leaves this room if you don't
[52:36] Speaker 1: want it to. Where were you on that night and
[52:38] Speaker 1: he goes Plum Beach in Brooklyn and Carisa goes, that's
[52:41] Speaker 1: a boy meets boy beach right off the belt Parkway.
[52:44] Speaker 1: He goes, yeah, it was. It was my first time
[52:47] Speaker 1: me and Ricky hooked up. It was a beautiful night
[52:50] Speaker 1: before I came home and found my mom and sister dead.
[52:53] Speaker 1: And Cariese's like, well, come on, man, people come out
[52:56] Speaker 1: of the closet. Times have changed, and Carlos goes, not
[52:59] Speaker 1: in here. Out of the closet means into a casket.
[53:02] Speaker 1: If they find out I'm gay, the gangs will turn
[53:03] Speaker 1: me into a maytag and he goes, I'll get bitched
[53:06] Speaker 1: out until I get the bug like Ricky. So He's like,
[53:11] Speaker 1: I know I'll never go free, but can you at
[53:13] Speaker 1: least find out where my mother and my sister are buried.
[53:15] Speaker 1: I have nightmares that they're somewhere like worse than me,
[53:18] Speaker 1: like in unmarked graves, and Cariese is explaining now the
[53:22] Speaker 1: situation to Holmes, who goes and did you bring me
[53:25] Speaker 1: this news because I'm gay. I didn't know this. Isaiah
[53:29] Speaker 1: Holmes is gay and Carisy goes, no, that's not why,
[53:32] Speaker 1: but it doesn't hurt. And I also know you have
[53:35] Speaker 1: a justice Jean under there somewhere, and Holmes goes, well,
[53:39] Speaker 1: maybe we can get him protective custody. But Cariese's like,
[53:41] Speaker 1: with this guy's history PTSDD depression, he could take his
[53:44] Speaker 1: own life. And Holmes is like, I need a night
[53:47] Speaker 1: sleep to figure out what Voltaire would do. So now
[53:50] Speaker 1: we're at the projects where Loope lives again. Benson is
[53:53] Speaker 1: talking to Lupe and her mother and the mom is like,
[53:56] Speaker 1: not wanting Lupe to testify, she's been through enough, and
[53:59] Speaker 1: the lawyers goes thell Doya is they'll trick ha and
[54:03] Speaker 1: Lupe is like, they can't catch me in a lie
[54:05] Speaker 1: if I tell the truth, and Kat promises we'll prep
[54:08] Speaker 1: her like we've got her, and the mom is like,
[54:11] Speaker 1: you don't have to do this, and Lupe's like, mom,
[54:13] Speaker 1: if he goes free, what if he goes after Giselle?
[54:15] Speaker 1: And Benson's like, okay, we'll be in touch. Like Lupe
[54:18] Speaker 1: is a starred perse child, like she is so brave
[54:22] Speaker 1: and smart and cool, and Benson's like, gotta go. We'll
[54:26] Speaker 1: be in touch. And then she gets a phone call
[54:28] Speaker 1: and she looks like she's been punched in the fucking gut,
[54:31] Speaker 1: and she goes, I'm on my way, and she tells Kat,
[54:34] Speaker 1: get your ass home yourself. I have a family thing.
[54:36] Speaker 1: So now Benson is in the hospital and she is
[54:41] Speaker 1: iding the body, the dead body of her brother, Simon Marsden,
[54:45] Speaker 1: which we do know is going to happen because we
[54:49] Speaker 1: have already covered the episode Trick World at the Mulan,
[54:51] Speaker 1: So even if you're like not an SVU a watcher,
[54:54] Speaker 1: you might remember that her brother was found dead at
[54:56] Speaker 1: this hotel. Melinda is there. As she's idaing the body,
[55:00] Speaker 1: she looks upset. He died of an ode of heroin
[55:03] Speaker 1: that was laced with fentanyl. There were no signs of
[55:05] Speaker 1: foul play, and Benson's like, well, he told me he'd
[55:08] Speaker 1: been sober, and Melinda goes, he was telling you the truth.
[55:10] Speaker 1: Most likely, if I had to guess, he'd been clean
[55:12] Speaker 1: for a while, And that's like that happens a lot
[55:16] Speaker 1: of times. Like that's I think what happened to Amy Winehouse,
[55:18] Speaker 1: Like she'd been clean for a while and then she
[55:20] Speaker 1: died just the time she went back to it. Because
[55:23] Speaker 1: it's like a shock to your system, I think, so said.
[55:26] Speaker 1: She says, it's not a large enough dose for it
[55:28] Speaker 1: to be a suicide. And he just got his hands
[55:31] Speaker 1: on the wrong stuff. And we find out later, you know,
[55:34] Speaker 1: he was kind of peer pressured into partying with some
[55:37] Speaker 1: guy he knew. And Melinda asked, yes, were you guys close,
[55:42] Speaker 1: and she goes, not really, but he was my only
[55:45] Speaker 1: family and she starts crying, and there's a moment where
[55:48] Speaker 1: she debates touching his cold, dead face, and then she
[55:51] Speaker 1: thinks better of it and doesn't do it. But it's sad.
[55:54] Speaker 1: I don't like to see Benson's head like again, they
[55:56] Speaker 1: can't let live be happy, they can't let her have
[55:58] Speaker 1: a nice boyfriend, they can't let her She's got this tenuous,
[56:02] Speaker 1: this you know, sort of bad relationship with her mom
[56:05] Speaker 1: from when she was younger, who died, And that's like,
[56:08] Speaker 1: you know, conflicting for her, and now the brother is
[56:11] Speaker 1: gone and that's truly now all she has in this
[56:13] Speaker 1: world is Noah. And maybe she would consider Stabler, but
[56:16] Speaker 1: at this point she hasn't talked to him in years.
[56:18] Speaker 1: Maybe so In Queen's Court, Holmes tells Cares some good news.
[56:24] Speaker 1: Keen signed the vacate order. Salty, way to go salty,
[56:28] Speaker 1: and he goes, how'd you get him to do that?
[56:30] Speaker 1: And he goes, he might have thought he was signing
[56:33] Speaker 1: a law school recommendation letter. So we're just at the
[56:35] Speaker 1: point where this were weekend at Bernie's seeing this fucking DA,
[56:39] Speaker 1: I mean, like the wait da right from Queen's Like
[56:44] Speaker 1: he's the full DA for Queens, and we're just like
[56:46] Speaker 1: propping him up and like having him sign things, and
[56:50] Speaker 1: Cariese's like, I didn't hear that, you didn't say that.
[56:53] Speaker 1: Let's get this done. So now we're in the courtroom.
[56:55] Speaker 1: They vacate Carlos's conviction. The judge apologizes to Carlos for
[57:00] Speaker 1: him losing sixteen years of his life. They take his
[57:03] Speaker 1: ankle chains off, And the sad thing I always think
[57:07] Speaker 1: of is in this kind of situation, like what does
[57:09] Speaker 1: he do now, Like hopefully he has family on the
[57:11] Speaker 1: other side. But from eighteen years old, he's been behind bars.
[57:15] Speaker 1: Now he's a thirty four year old man. Where's he
[57:18] Speaker 1: gonna go? I mean, like there are organizations, but like
[57:21] Speaker 1: this is why recidivism is so bad. You can like
[57:23] Speaker 1: put the like I mean, hopefully he files a suit
[57:25] Speaker 1: and gets you know, Queens pays him a million dollars,
[57:28] Speaker 1: so you can fucking you know, get an apartment. But
[57:31] Speaker 1: Finn's like, you can walk like a man. Now, Carlos
[57:34] Speaker 1: and CARRIESI goes a freeman. So and then Carlos just
[57:39] Speaker 1: kind of like shuffles out of the courtroom. So now,
[57:42] Speaker 1: and he is hot, and I think we all need
[57:45] Speaker 1: to remember that. I think I think he's gonna be okay. Indeed, indeed,
[57:49] Speaker 1: I think he's gonna get a settlement. And I think
[57:50] Speaker 1: he's gonna hit the West Village. I hope so Hell's kitchen.
[57:55] Speaker 1: I could see him in a nice little roomy Hell's
[57:57] Speaker 1: kitchen apartment. So now they're telling Lupa's mom that Stanton
[58:02] Speaker 1: is pleading guilty to the two murders, but they're not
[58:05] Speaker 1: going to try him on her rape or these other rapes,
[58:08] Speaker 1: which the mom seems annoyed about, but they reassure her, like,
[58:11] Speaker 1: he's not getting out of jail for a long time.
[58:13] Speaker 1: In this way, Lupe doesn't have to testify, and you know,
[58:17] Speaker 1: I think it's kind of worth it. He's going away
[58:19] Speaker 1: for a long time. You don't have to be in
[58:21] Speaker 1: a room with him ever again, you know. And Kat's like,
[58:26] Speaker 1: let me give you a ride home, And then Benson
[58:27] Speaker 1: looks despondent and Roland asks her if she's okay. She's
[58:30] Speaker 1: like no, tells her about Simon dying, and she tells
[58:33] Speaker 1: Roland's about the message that she left on the phone
[58:35] Speaker 1: for him, and she's like, what if my message is
[58:38] Speaker 1: the last thing that he heard? And Rollins is like, you
[58:41] Speaker 1: don't know that. Like with the life he led, it
[58:44] Speaker 1: was just his time, you know. But we find out
[58:47] Speaker 1: later kind of it wasn't even really. I mean, I
[58:49] Speaker 1: don't think anyone like forced him to do the drugs,
[58:51] Speaker 1: but he was right, didn't the guy like say let's
[58:56] Speaker 1: go out, Like, yeah, I was bad, but he was sad.
[58:59] Speaker 2: I don't even remember that.
[59:00] Speaker 1: So do you said the Mulan rouge And I was like,
[59:01] Speaker 1: what the.
[59:02] Speaker 2: Fuck is she talking?
[59:02] Speaker 1: It was the episode?
[59:04] Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, and then well, now that's even more clear.
[59:08] Speaker 2: But then I remembered the hotel when you mentioned it.
[59:10] Speaker 2: But yeah, I yeah, it's like I was team Hustlers.
[59:15] Speaker 2: So that was tough. That was a tough case for me.
[59:17] Speaker 1: Tough.
[59:19] Speaker 2: It's always it's always tough when I sided with the criminals.
[59:23] Speaker 1: Well, so the last scene, they're at the cemetery in
[59:27] Speaker 1: Jamaica Queens and Carlos is putting flowers on the graves
[59:29] Speaker 1: of his mom and his sister. Finn and Carisi are
[59:32] Speaker 1: there looking on. Carlos notices that the stone looks new.
[59:35] Speaker 1: Carisi goes, yes, so people read about your case. There
[59:37] Speaker 1: was a GoFundMe and Carlos goes, what's that and it's
[59:41] Speaker 1: like sad He's literally missed out on like sixteen years
[59:44] Speaker 1: of life, Like that's another thing, like can you you know,
[59:49] Speaker 1: like you got to like it's like getting out of
[59:50] Speaker 1: a coma or something. And he's like, how can I ever?
[59:53] Speaker 1: Thank you to Cariesi and Finn, and then he cries
[59:57] Speaker 1: on his sister's grave, and then they do a close
[59:59] Speaker 1: up shot Coreesy looking really serious, and then there's a
[1:00:03] Speaker 1: wide shot of the cemetery and then that's Dick wolf baby. Yeah.
[1:00:06] Speaker 2: I also they really did it in such a smart
[1:00:08] Speaker 2: way with him not knowing these simple things or the
[1:00:10] Speaker 2: iPad like it. Yeah, it's I love when little things
[1:00:15] Speaker 2: show so d yeah.
[1:00:16] Speaker 1: Because it's like they get TV. They're not totally like
[1:00:19] Speaker 1: what's happening, like you know, but like they wouldn't know
[1:00:24] Speaker 1: how to use like technology like that. I don't think,
[1:00:28] Speaker 1: even though now it feels like everybody in prison has
[1:00:29] Speaker 1: a phone. People are like tweeting from prisons. I don't know,
[1:00:32] Speaker 1: but tell me everything.
[1:00:42] Speaker 2: So Lewis and Scarcella scandal, scandal, this guy should be behind bars.
[1:00:48] Speaker 2: The fact that bad cops get to keep their pension,
[1:00:51] Speaker 2: the fact that the state and city has to pay
[1:00:53] Speaker 2: these like out these cases, it's like all a mess.
[1:00:57] Speaker 2: If I was I kind of feel like the miscongeniality
[1:01:00] Speaker 2: like Gracie Hart. Like if I was in miss America
[1:01:03] Speaker 2: and they were like, what do you want to change,
[1:01:05] Speaker 2: I'd be like, cops have to pay out of their
[1:01:07] Speaker 2: pension for their criminal.
[1:01:10] Speaker 1: Is my number one? Like I think they would just less,
[1:01:14] Speaker 1: that's your subway take.
[1:01:16] Speaker 2: It's just not fun. I would rather do a kind
[1:01:19] Speaker 2: of fun one. But I hope, but that is what
[1:01:24] Speaker 2: I so believe, like I think they would shoot less people. Well,
[1:01:27] Speaker 2: because I also saw this instagram once and it's like
[1:01:30] Speaker 2: a dude was saying, like every black person in America
[1:01:33] Speaker 2: should have life insurance policies because if there's wrongful death,
[1:01:39] Speaker 2: like insurance companies get their fucking money, and that they're like,
[1:01:45] Speaker 2: like that's where because they don't. They obviously lack humanity.
[1:01:49] Speaker 2: So it's like either insurance. But I think if they
[1:01:52] Speaker 2: had to pay out their own misdeeds and then they
[1:01:55] Speaker 2: didn't get their pensions anymore, they must they I think
[1:01:59] Speaker 2: would act better. Yeah, I think, I don't know. Maybe
[1:02:03] Speaker 2: I'm wrong, Maybe I'm wrong. The corruption's too deep, but
[1:02:06] Speaker 2: it's like, okay, whatever. So Lewis, he's the star detective
[1:02:09] Speaker 2: right nineteen eighties Brooklyn nineties, known for making arrests, getting convictions.
[1:02:14] Speaker 2: New York Times referred him as Batman, and Robin was
[1:02:17] Speaker 2: this other detective Steve w Chamilli Chamil whatever. So their
[1:02:22] Speaker 2: legacy of course tarnished. March twenty thirteen, when they're accused
[1:02:25] Speaker 2: of lying and cheating this all the time to make
[1:02:27] Speaker 2: high profile cases stick, a witness comes forward and says
[1:02:32] Speaker 2: that he Lewis told him which suspect to pick out
[1:02:36] Speaker 2: of a police lineup in a nineteen ninety murder of
[1:02:40] Speaker 2: a Brooklyn rabbi.
[1:02:41] Speaker 1: Okay, the two men were.
[1:02:43] Speaker 2: Found to have let violent criminals out of jail to
[1:02:46] Speaker 2: smoke crack and visit sex workers in exchange for incriminating
[1:02:50] Speaker 2: David Ranta, who then served over twenty years.
[1:02:53] Speaker 1: For this crime, this murder that he did not commit.
[1:02:57] Speaker 2: In ninety two, they're caught on video letting a jail
[1:02:59] Speaker 2: house in formant out of custody to meet his girlfriend
[1:03:01] Speaker 2: and go shopping and like go out to e and like,
[1:03:04] Speaker 2: so many misconduct cases after twenty thirteen start coming.
[1:03:08] Speaker 1: Out, and so the lead DA Charles J.
[1:03:11] Speaker 2: Hines, has to reopen like fifty six cases, okay, And
[1:03:16] Speaker 2: these are fifty six cases that Lewis arrested that were
[1:03:19] Speaker 2: that and these went a trial and these people were
[1:03:21] Speaker 2: convicted a trial. So I need to tell you guys,
[1:03:25] Speaker 2: there is decades of articles about this guy.
[1:03:27] Speaker 1: Decades.
[1:03:28] Speaker 2: There are seven full New York Times article pages only
[1:03:32] Speaker 2: about Scarcella. I couldn't cover every single case because there
[1:03:38] Speaker 2: is likedjuzzens of articles, truly, decades of articles about overturned
[1:03:44] Speaker 2: convictions payouts inventing confessions, coaching witnesses, persuading people to change
[1:03:51] Speaker 2: their description of perpse to match the suspect and custody
[1:03:54] Speaker 2: multiple confessions they ended up finding with the exact same language,
[1:03:58] Speaker 2: which is just it's just kind of impossible. But yeah,
[1:04:02] Speaker 2: a bunch of people kept going, you got it right,
[1:04:04] Speaker 2: I was there and that was the smoking gun. Truly
[1:04:08] Speaker 2: is like this pattern and the similarities in language. Jabbar Washington,
[1:04:13] Speaker 2: during the trial of a nineteen ninety five murder, had
[1:04:16] Speaker 2: an alibi. Survivors of the shooting were unable to identify
[1:04:21] Speaker 2: him in court, but that forced confession is what got
[1:04:24] Speaker 2: him convicted. And that was that. Richard Leo, a lat professor, quoted,
[1:04:29] Speaker 2: It's hard to imagine all five people use the same
[1:04:31] Speaker 2: exact words. It almost sounds like a template.
[1:04:34] Speaker 1: What's so crazy is like we've talked about police corruption
[1:04:37] Speaker 1: in New York City, and like we talked about like
[1:04:39] Speaker 1: the cerproco of it all, and that was like in
[1:04:42] Speaker 1: the late sixties, and like there was another round of
[1:04:45] Speaker 1: it in the eighties. Like they didn't get this guy,
[1:04:48] Speaker 1: Like no, they didn't care.
[1:04:49] Speaker 2: Oh oh yeah. So like so he had this forced confession.
[1:04:55] Speaker 2: I mean to have an alibi confirmed and still be
[1:04:58] Speaker 2: convicted of murder.
[1:05:01] Speaker 1: So crazy.
[1:05:02] Speaker 2: And then every year so like some of the article names,
[1:05:04] Speaker 2: it's like fourteen more cases, two more trials, more settlements,
[1:05:07] Speaker 2: another man freed, overturned, the city sued. It like doesn't
[1:05:10] Speaker 2: end with this guy and how many lives he fucked up?
[1:05:13] Speaker 2: An investigation said that, like in the Times, this twenty
[1:05:17] Speaker 2: thirteen thing, that he turned to one woman that was
[1:05:19] Speaker 2: addicted to crack time and time again. So this woman
[1:05:22] Speaker 2: that's addicted to crack was able to testify in murder
[1:05:25] Speaker 2: case after murder case.
[1:05:26] Speaker 1: Oh my god. And then this Heinz guy.
[1:05:28] Speaker 2: The Brooklyn DA did all these investigations, which is insane
[1:05:32] Speaker 2: because it's like if a plane crashes, it's on the
[1:05:34] Speaker 2: like the like the plane company doesn't get to investigate,
[1:05:38] Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like there's a review board.
[1:05:39] Speaker 2: There's an independent safety board that would do that. So
[1:05:42] Speaker 2: it's like they let the DA from the place and
[1:05:44] Speaker 2: charge look at the cases, and a ton of these
[1:05:48] Speaker 2: questionable convictions happened under him, so then he gets to
[1:05:51] Speaker 2: then decide if they should stick or not.
[1:05:54] Speaker 1: And then and then he started this conviction integrity unit. Lol.
[1:05:59] Speaker 2: And David Ranta's who I mentioned earlier, who was Fossley
[1:06:04] Speaker 2: in prisoned. His trial lawyer, Michael Baum is like, we've
[1:06:07] Speaker 2: been screaming about this case for twenty years, and now
[1:06:10] Speaker 2: he cares about wrongful convictions. Okay, Like they've been trying
[1:06:15] Speaker 2: to get him out forever. So November twentieth, twenty twenty three,
[1:06:18] Speaker 2: The New York Times reported all his overturned cases have
[1:06:21] Speaker 2: cost New York one hundred and ten million dollars.
[1:06:24] Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. It's like I actually do think
[1:06:26] Speaker 1: that they should. I think that the cops pension should
[1:06:28] Speaker 1: be drained, and then also the NYPD should have to pay,
[1:06:31] Speaker 1: because if we just make it the cops pension, there's
[1:06:34] Speaker 1: not enough, Like there's not enough for the people. But
[1:06:36] Speaker 1: it's like it has to come out of their fire.
[1:06:38] Speaker 2: It has to come out of something, and that's not
[1:06:40] Speaker 2: our taxes, Like they are not punished one hundred and
[1:06:43] Speaker 2: ten million dollars, Like mom, Donnie, let's get to work
[1:06:49] Speaker 2: on that.
[1:06:49] Speaker 1: Like that's that's what I like, what the fuck?
[1:06:52] Speaker 2: No?
[1:06:52] Speaker 1: And like nobody like this guy was working for thirty
[1:06:55] Speaker 1: years before he got busted, Like nobody like rated on him, Like.
[1:06:58] Speaker 2: That's give a ship. Between twenty fourteen and twenty twenty two,
[1:07:03] Speaker 2: his cases represented about fifteen percent of the payouts the
[1:07:07] Speaker 2: city spent. He retired in ninety nine. Thank god, so
[1:07:11] Speaker 2: not more people wasted their fucking lives in prison. He
[1:07:15] Speaker 2: has not been charged with any crimes, just bye official
[1:07:17] Speaker 2: findings of bad practices, even though and he still insists
[1:07:20] Speaker 2: he did nothing wrong. He still collects his pension, and
[1:07:24] Speaker 2: the city and state money pays for all of his settlements.
[1:07:29] Speaker 1: He was on a podcast called The.
[1:07:31] Speaker 2: Burden, and I did not listen to it, but The
[1:07:34] Speaker 2: New York Times said that he was like, I was
[1:07:36] Speaker 2: just a cog in the machine. It's the system, and
[1:07:38] Speaker 2: the crime rates were high. What are you gonna do?
[1:07:41] Speaker 1: Like does not give a fuck.
[1:07:44] Speaker 2: He does not see these people as people in any capacity,
[1:07:47] Speaker 2: like the way that fuck the cop talks in that episode.
[1:07:51] Speaker 2: The DA's office tried to hide files that showed this.
[1:07:54] Speaker 2: So this is like why the like with the DA
[1:07:57] Speaker 2: being in charge of the investigation is so crazy. Is
[1:07:59] Speaker 2: like they tried to files that showed the scope of
[1:08:01] Speaker 2: all his fuck ups in the eighties and nineties, and
[1:08:04] Speaker 2: then there was a computer slip up and the prosecutors
[1:08:08] Speaker 2: accidentally sent opposing cons opposing council details and that's eesus.
[1:08:15] Speaker 2: So unredacted files were sent out January twenty twenty four,
[1:08:19] Speaker 2: five hundred and twenty four page PDFs sent on accident
[1:08:21] Speaker 2: with everything that they tried to cover up. Oh my god.
[1:08:25] Speaker 2: Derek Hamilton, who's an innocent's advocate, is like it's fucked up.
[1:08:29] Speaker 2: They haven't worked hard with whatever they could to help
[1:08:31] Speaker 2: people get out and made everything public, like he called
[1:08:34] Speaker 2: it a mockery. He believes they are tired of paying
[1:08:36] Speaker 2: out for all these cases, so now they're becoming like
[1:08:39] Speaker 2: selective about what they reveal or not and being willing
[1:08:42] Speaker 2: to keep these innocent people in prison. The police union
[1:08:45] Speaker 2: obviously had his back. The quotes in the New York
[1:08:47] Speaker 2: Times call Scarcella a good detective who has, in quotes,
[1:08:51] Speaker 2: been dragged through the mud by agenda driven lawyers. Like
[1:08:55] Speaker 2: people spent decades behind bars for kurb So all the
[1:08:58] Speaker 2: people put tog other that served time that for crimes
[1:09:03] Speaker 2: they were innocent, two hundred and fifty years in prison total.
[1:09:06] Speaker 2: Oh my god. The people that he falls me people
[1:09:10] Speaker 2: got convicted spent a total two hundred and fifty years
[1:09:14] Speaker 2: in prison. One woman like died a few years after
[1:09:17] Speaker 2: she was let out. One man who was just fourteen
[1:09:20] Speaker 2: when was put in prison wrongfully died in prison at
[1:09:23] Speaker 2: age thirty seven, so the settlement like went to his mother.
[1:09:26] Speaker 2: One man let out of prison after twenty three years,
[1:09:30] Speaker 2: then had a severe heart attack just two days later.
[1:09:32] Speaker 2: The Conviction Review Unit in NYC was one of the
[1:09:36] Speaker 2: first of the such units in the country, and since
[1:09:38] Speaker 2: twenty fourteen, has overturned thirty seven convictions, and a third
[1:09:42] Speaker 2: of those are Scarsala cases and Wikipedia. I did check
[1:09:47] Speaker 2: because I was like, he must be in jail. Why
[1:09:49] Speaker 2: can't I find a punishment? I was like, why can't
[1:09:51] Speaker 2: I find a punishment? There just isn't. But in the
[1:09:55] Speaker 2: known for it does say like twenty one overturned convictions
[1:09:59] Speaker 2: in homicide cases. But what else he's known for his awards?
[1:10:04] Speaker 2: He's won four chief of these awards for Outstanding Investigation.
[1:10:09] Speaker 5: Duda.
[1:10:10] Speaker 2: If that doesn't explain everything. In twenty seventeen, he was
[1:10:16] Speaker 2: honored by the retired Detectives of New York Club to
[1:10:19] Speaker 2: show their solidarity with this fucking loser. John Wilde, who
[1:10:23] Speaker 2: organized the event, is quoted sadly as detectives we don't
[1:10:26] Speaker 2: usually get our side of the story out. Louis has
[1:10:29] Speaker 2: suffered in the papers and in his personal life, but
[1:10:32] Speaker 2: for this one night he can be proud to have
[1:10:34] Speaker 2: worn the shield. Like you think he suffered more than
[1:10:41] Speaker 2: the people spent twenty I mean there were people spending
[1:10:45] Speaker 2: twenty seven years in prison, twenty three years in prison,
[1:10:47] Speaker 2: fourteen years in prison, ten years in prison.
[1:10:50] Speaker 1: Yeah, this is awful.
[1:10:54] Speaker 2: Yeah. Qualified immunity and statue of limitations also helped him
[1:10:57] Speaker 2: evade legal consequences. And they just keep saying he's broke
[1:11:01] Speaker 2: no laws and he should be in jail and it's
[1:11:03] Speaker 2: fucked up.
[1:11:04] Speaker 4: Oh my god.
[1:11:06] Speaker 2: And then they're like people spit on him in the streets.
[1:11:08] Speaker 2: I go, he's luckiest, throat's not slit ha ha. So
[1:11:13] Speaker 2: then we have the teardrop rapist case and it's related
[1:11:16] Speaker 2: to this wrongful conviction and eventual exoneration of Louis Vargas.
[1:11:23] Speaker 1: Can you believe the names Louis, I'm like Louis, there
[1:11:29] Speaker 1: are oh no, this is Louise. Now, this is Louise.
[1:11:32] Speaker 1: We did not pick this as a way to promote
[1:11:34] Speaker 1: our shirt. This is actually just happening as it does.
[1:11:38] Speaker 2: This is Louise, because I've memorized Lois, like now I know,
[1:11:43] Speaker 2: but Louise, So November twenty five because this actually you
[1:11:50] Speaker 2: know when you're like, but the evidence in Matt how
[1:11:52] Speaker 2: did this and more things happen like this kind of
[1:11:55] Speaker 2: covers that situation. So November twenty fifteen, Louis Vargus rape
[1:11:59] Speaker 2: canictions finally overturned after serving sixteen years in prison. His attorneys,
[1:12:05] Speaker 2: after years of reaching out to the California Innocence Project,
[1:12:08] Speaker 2: revealed that he did not commit the three rapes he
[1:12:10] Speaker 2: was convicted for. The teardrop rapist actually is linked to
[1:12:13] Speaker 2: more than thirty sexual assaults in LA starting in nineteen
[1:12:17] Speaker 2: ninety six. The victims ranged in age from fourteen to
[1:12:20] Speaker 2: twenty one, and they all happened in the morning, so
[1:12:23] Speaker 2: between five and eight am. It's like he got people
[1:12:26] Speaker 2: on their morning commutes. They have similar tattoos, so that's
[1:12:31] Speaker 2: what fucked up. They both have tear drop tattoos. And
[1:12:32] Speaker 2: then the victim positive IDs is what put this man away.
[1:12:37] Speaker 2: And shaky eyewitness testimonies are the number one factor in
[1:12:40] Speaker 2: wrongful convictions across the country, and that is true, but
[1:12:44] Speaker 2: so jurors disregarded that there was witnesses to his alibi,
[1:12:51] Speaker 2: including the manager at the bagel shop who said he
[1:12:53] Speaker 2: was working there the morning of the attacks.
[1:12:56] Speaker 1: Oh my god.
[1:12:57] Speaker 2: After he was exonerated, he had to go to an
[1:12:59] Speaker 2: immigration judge though, because he was like a permanent residence,
[1:13:02] Speaker 2: so when he got convicted, they ended his green card,
[1:13:05] Speaker 2: so he couldn't even be set free. He had to
[1:13:07] Speaker 2: go straight to immigration after his wrongful conviction to be
[1:13:10] Speaker 2: able to stay in the country. And the real rapist
[1:13:14] Speaker 2: has never been caught, no way. So like Vargas, he
[1:13:19] Speaker 2: was a suspect and then after his arrest and okay,
[1:13:21] Speaker 2: so this is important. So like after his arrest, conviction
[1:13:24] Speaker 2: and sentence, the attacks kept happening, so it's like.
[1:13:29] Speaker 1: What the fuck?
[1:13:31] Speaker 2: And so two took place before he was arrested, and
[1:13:34] Speaker 2: then three more while he was in custody before the
[1:13:37] Speaker 2: conviction even and you know, he works for the anti
[1:13:43] Speaker 2: recidivism coalition. He speaks regularly about, you know, his wrongful
[1:13:48] Speaker 2: conviction and is committed to helping others on their path
[1:13:51] Speaker 2: back to society. And it took fifteen years of work
[1:13:54] Speaker 2: to free him. And he was the longest serving wrongfully
[1:13:57] Speaker 2: incarcerated in May in California history, according to the San
[1:14:01] Speaker 2: Diego Union Tribune. And he did sue I couldn't find
[1:14:05] Speaker 2: any information on the settlement though.
[1:14:07] Speaker 3: Oh god, fuck, just bad cops boils my blood.
[1:14:15] Speaker 2: And then awards and then it's like then you want
[1:14:17] Speaker 2: us to be like only a few bad and it's
[1:14:20] Speaker 2: like you gave them awards. The chief of D's gave
[1:14:23] Speaker 2: him four awards for investigating.
[1:14:26] Speaker 1: Cause like it's kind of like what the show makes
[1:14:28] Speaker 1: it out to be, Like they don't really care about
[1:14:30] Speaker 1: the I don't know, they don't care about like the
[1:14:32] Speaker 1: humanity of it. They're like, what are your numbers? What
[1:14:34] Speaker 1: are your numbers? Are you closing enough cases? And this
[1:14:36] Speaker 1: guy was probably like closing his shits on of cases
[1:14:39] Speaker 1: because he was rigging the whole system, paying witnesses like
[1:14:44] Speaker 1: forcing IDs. Like that's wild shit. Oh my god, I
[1:14:49] Speaker 1: hate him. I hate him. I can't believe they weren't
[1:14:52] Speaker 1: able to prosecute him, because he would get killed in jail.
[1:14:57] Speaker 2: He would have to be in solitary, he would hope.
[1:15:00] Speaker 1: So a cop that's like fucked all these people up,
[1:15:04] Speaker 1: he would just be murdered.
[1:15:05] Speaker 2: I think immediately that would be a cool movie.
[1:15:11] Speaker 1: Okay, Well, thank you for doing all that research. I
[1:15:14] Speaker 1: did not know about these cases, and.
[1:15:16] Speaker 2: I didn't either, And I mean, if you're mad I
[1:15:18] Speaker 2: didn't go more in depth into all the wrongful convictions,
[1:15:21] Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but you can read them.
[1:15:23] Speaker 1: Yeah, well that clearly was who they based Monty on.
[1:15:28] Speaker 1: That this guy who's like talking while eating a honk
[1:15:31] Speaker 1: of steak. He made me want to die.
[1:15:33] Speaker 2: Okay, like young teen finds his mom and sister Like, like,
[1:15:40] Speaker 2: I don't get it. I don't get why that would
[1:15:42] Speaker 2: be your first suspect. Yeah.
[1:15:44] Speaker 1: I think they're probably like, we have no other leads,
[1:15:46] Speaker 1: what are we gonna do? Let's get them, you know. Well,
[1:15:50] Speaker 1: let's don't anybody go anywhere, because we've got a fun
[1:15:53] Speaker 1: interview coming right up. Our guest today is an actor
[1:16:03] Speaker 1: best known for playing serial killer Jerry Brutos in both
[1:16:06] Speaker 1: mind Hunter and Monster the Ed Genes Story. He also
[1:16:09] Speaker 1: has had recurring roles on Snow Piercer and The Nick
[1:16:12] Speaker 1: Star of Stage and Screen. But you know him today
[1:16:15] Speaker 1: as the very calm and collected rapist and murderer Tim Stanton.
[1:16:20] Speaker 1: Please enjoy our chat with the lovely Happy Anderson. Hi. Happy,
[1:16:24] Speaker 1: nice to meet you.
[1:16:25] Speaker 4: Great to meet both of you.
[1:16:27] Speaker 5: It was great to get that follow and I followed
[1:16:29] Speaker 5: you back and I watched ton of clips and I
[1:16:33] Speaker 5: loved it.
[1:16:35] Speaker 2: That makes us happy.
[1:16:36] Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're all talking. You just said that makes
[1:16:41] Speaker 1: us happy. Your name is I had happy come from
[1:16:43] Speaker 1: as a name, like just a little nickname, because you
[1:16:46] Speaker 1: were like a happy kid.
[1:16:47] Speaker 5: Or what's the Yeah, since I was, since I was
[1:16:50] Speaker 5: a baby, since I was six months old, I've gone
[1:16:53] Speaker 5: as happy. And as a matter of fact, early in
[1:16:56] Speaker 5: my childhood I didn't even really totally get that my
[1:16:59] Speaker 5: legal name was Eric. I sort of knew there was
[1:17:02] Speaker 5: a name out there, yeah, you know. And I remember
[1:17:05] Speaker 5: the first day of elementary school when they were taking
[1:17:07] Speaker 5: attendance and missus Golden was like Eric Anderson Eric and
[1:17:13] Speaker 5: and she finally stands right in front of me and
[1:17:14] Speaker 5: it's saying, am like, whoever this fucking ic not listening.
[1:17:18] Speaker 4: He's screwing the whole day up? Man, I don't know.
[1:17:21] Speaker 1: Does that anyone call you?
[1:17:22] Speaker 2: Eric?
[1:17:23] Speaker 1: Do you ever go buy it?
[1:17:25] Speaker 4: Policeman and bill collectors?
[1:17:26] Speaker 2: Oh wow, it's a deep, deep nickname.
[1:17:29] Speaker 1: Were you a watcher of the Dick Wolf universe?
[1:17:32] Speaker 4: USO? You know? I mean also, when we got here,
[1:17:35] Speaker 4: in two now.
[1:17:36] Speaker 5: I'm in la now. But when we got to New
[1:17:38] Speaker 5: York in two thousand and three, that was like the
[1:17:40] Speaker 5: main game in town. You know, the motherships for you
[1:17:43] Speaker 5: criminal Intent and you know, so we watched all that
[1:17:45] Speaker 5: stuff all the time.
[1:17:46] Speaker 1: And the Mothership, it looks like, was like your first credit,
[1:17:48] Speaker 1: like one of your first TV credits.
[1:17:51] Speaker 4: Yeah, totally, yeah, I think it was my first.
[1:17:52] Speaker 1: TV And then you did an SVU like a year
[1:17:55] Speaker 1: later or something. Yeah, yeah, well that so hardwired.
[1:17:59] Speaker 2: I want you to know. Very few funny, funny moments
[1:18:03] Speaker 2: outside of certain detectives happened in SVU, but you're one
[1:18:06] Speaker 2: of them.
[1:18:07] Speaker 1: Your character in that Do you remember that scene? It
[1:18:09] Speaker 1: was like that you were working.
[1:18:11] Speaker 2: With a Namblo pedophile and the cops come and they're like,
[1:18:15] Speaker 2: where's your laptop and you're just behind him and then yeah, it's.
[1:18:20] Speaker 1: A fun moment.
[1:18:21] Speaker 5: Whenever when I was doing this episode Murdered had a
[1:18:23] Speaker 5: bad address. They were like, have you ever done this
[1:18:25] Speaker 5: show before? And it was like, yes, ten years ago.
[1:18:28] Speaker 5: Who did you play? I said a man with two lines,
[1:18:30] Speaker 5: one of which was cut.
[1:18:33] Speaker 2: But it's such a good moment and it's nice to
[1:18:36] Speaker 2: have someone be like, no, get this pedophile. You know,
[1:18:38] Speaker 2: you always hear people covering for each other, but it's like, yeah,
[1:18:42] Speaker 2: you can fucking get out of here.
[1:18:44] Speaker 1: But in this episode, you're not a good guy. And oh, dear, no,
[1:18:49] Speaker 1: I noticed that you've also played Jerry Brutos in two
[1:18:54] Speaker 1: different projects, which is wild. We're obviously familiar with his work.
[1:19:00] Speaker 1: Do you do you are you more often playing like
[1:19:04] Speaker 1: bad guys by far by far Okay?
[1:19:08] Speaker 5: Yeah, and if and anything that's a that's like a
[1:19:11] Speaker 5: straight offer like this was is always a bad guy? Yeah,
[1:19:14] Speaker 5: A good to play a good guy, I really have
[1:19:16] Speaker 5: to work for it.
[1:19:18] Speaker 1: That's so interesting.
[1:19:19] Speaker 2: And did so when you had to prep once for
[1:19:21] Speaker 2: this Jared Jerry Brudos And then again, were you like, Okay,
[1:19:25] Speaker 2: I'm set or was there another set of kind of
[1:19:27] Speaker 2: like no, I mean they do? Or were they different
[1:19:31] Speaker 2: like what was the vibe of the projects and stuff?
[1:19:33] Speaker 4: Totally different? I mean it couldn't have been more different
[1:19:36] Speaker 4: than the vibe.
[1:19:36] Speaker 5: And also the even though it had been a long
[1:19:39] Speaker 5: time ago, the prep for mind Hunter Jerry Brudos was
[1:19:42] Speaker 5: so extensive. Yeah, I'm so long that that by the
[1:19:46] Speaker 5: time we got to Monsters several years later. And also
[1:19:49] Speaker 5: Max Winkler, who directed that episode, is like, just so
[1:19:52] Speaker 5: you know, this is going to be the opposite of Fincher,
[1:19:54] Speaker 5: And he was right, like, we did everything in one
[1:19:57] Speaker 5: take more or less, and menueil Fincher does like seventy takes,
[1:20:00] Speaker 5: you know, so uh and it was I was really
[1:20:03] Speaker 5: pleasantly surprised, but also kind of alarmed how easily I
[1:20:06] Speaker 5: slid back to that character and the way he talks
[1:20:10] Speaker 5: and everything.
[1:20:10] Speaker 4: I was like, oh, maybe this shouldn't come so easily.
[1:20:13] Speaker 2: Wait, what is? Because I loved I love Fincher movies
[1:20:16] Speaker 2: so much. Oh, I love watching everything. But then you
[1:20:18] Speaker 2: hear stories of like you're on Clint's Eastwood said it's
[1:20:21] Speaker 2: one and done. Everyone's chill, we're moving through, and everyone
[1:20:25] Speaker 2: loves that, and then no one loves seventy takes and
[1:20:29] Speaker 2: it feels like he drives people crazy, But then the
[1:20:31] Speaker 2: product is so good. What are yeah? What's what? What
[1:20:34] Speaker 2: does he need? What is he looking for a profession?
[1:20:38] Speaker 4: Maybe well, he's a perfectionist for sure, and and uh
[1:20:41] Speaker 4: so you know, one of his bestdies, apparently is Steven Soderbergh,
[1:20:45] Speaker 4: who's literally his His motto is I tried to do
[1:20:48] Speaker 4: everything in under one take, and so I had just
[1:20:51] Speaker 4: come from The Nick onto mind Hunter, and so there
[1:20:55] Speaker 4: was they couldn't be That's the Soderbergh's more in the
[1:20:58] Speaker 4: Clint Eastwood School. I mean, the day are so short.
[1:21:01] Speaker 5: One time, I did my part of three different episodes
[1:21:04] Speaker 5: on The Nick in about four hours, which is like, wow,
[1:21:08] Speaker 5: unheard of, and it's awesome, and that's an amazing way
[1:21:10] Speaker 5: to work. But you need to know exactly what you're
[1:21:13] Speaker 5: going to do and get in and get out. What
[1:21:15] Speaker 5: made the Fincher thing so exciting was because the work
[1:21:19] Speaker 5: was so intense and laborious. It felt more like like
[1:21:21] Speaker 5: rehearsing a play for fifteen hours a day and then
[1:21:24] Speaker 5: cameras just happened to catch it. It didn't feel like
[1:21:27] Speaker 5: doing television at all. Oh interesting, yeah yeah. And the
[1:21:33] Speaker 5: discussions around each scene, where you know, I'm a theater kid,
[1:21:36] Speaker 5: so I don't not only do I not mind, I
[1:21:38] Speaker 5: really like to go on and on about what's happening
[1:21:42] Speaker 5: and motivations and the distinct relationships and everything.
[1:21:46] Speaker 4: So I loved that, although we all were exhausted.
[1:21:51] Speaker 1: Yeah, you need to get on the pit. I heard
[1:21:54] Speaker 1: that the pit is like they specifically hire a lot
[1:21:59] Speaker 1: of theater actors because it's specifically they're shooting it like
[1:22:04] Speaker 1: the theater style more. I guess, oh that would be cool.
[1:22:08] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:22:09] Speaker 1: I think probably also because it's like a lot of
[1:22:11] Speaker 1: technical language, so they probably just have to like rehearse
[1:22:14] Speaker 1: and rehearse and rehearse to get all that done. But
[1:22:17] Speaker 1: I could see you on the pit.
[1:22:18] Speaker 2: And then do theme. Is it always specific notes or
[1:22:22] Speaker 2: it's just like do it again? And then you find
[1:22:24] Speaker 2: stuff out of it because it's like a rehearsal, you're
[1:22:27] Speaker 2: always trying something.
[1:22:29] Speaker 5: I would say very much both. I mean he's very
[1:22:32] Speaker 5: very specific and then but then also you're encouraged to
[1:22:35] Speaker 5: play and try stuff too. Yeah, I mean it's that
[1:22:38] Speaker 5: time is such a blur.
[1:22:39] Speaker 4: You know.
[1:22:40] Speaker 5: It was like almost three weeks for three freaking scenes,
[1:22:43] Speaker 5: you know what I mean.
[1:22:44] Speaker 4: So you just go and go and go and go
[1:22:47] Speaker 4: till you can't go anymore.
[1:22:48] Speaker 1: I loved mind Hunters so much, and Google knows that
[1:22:52] Speaker 1: about me, and they kind of constantly give me, like
[1:22:55] Speaker 1: you know, right below your Google it'll be like things
[1:22:58] Speaker 1: you might be interested in, and it's like mine Hunter
[1:23:01] Speaker 1: season three is it on its way back? And I'm
[1:23:03] Speaker 1: always clicking on these articles, and they're like, no word yet,
[1:23:05] Speaker 1: and I'm like, stop, stop clickbaiting me with talk of
[1:23:09] Speaker 1: mind Hunter, But they keep saying that they're like people
[1:23:12] Speaker 1: I guess really want a revival at this point of
[1:23:16] Speaker 1: season three. I don't know.
[1:23:17] Speaker 5: I love well, there's there's a lot of talk about
[1:23:20] Speaker 5: a movie to finish. Sure, I don't know how close
[1:23:24] Speaker 5: that is to coming to fruition, but I've heard from
[1:23:26] Speaker 5: a lot of people directly involved that that's the next
[1:23:30] Speaker 5: move they're angling for.
[1:23:31] Speaker 1: I just think it's so interesting the guys that finally
[1:23:34] Speaker 1: decided to start studying these guys, you know, like, why
[1:23:39] Speaker 1: are we not figuring this out? Like I think there
[1:23:43] Speaker 1: was just a time of it's an aberration. They're just
[1:23:46] Speaker 1: a freak, you know, but like you gotta start like
[1:23:48] Speaker 1: why is this happening a pattern? Yeah? Yeah, and all
[1:23:52] Speaker 1: the guys, at least a lot of the different ones
[1:23:54] Speaker 1: in mind Hunter, they're different, you know, there's not all Yeah.
[1:23:59] Speaker 2: So what was it like being in the Bad Boys universe?
[1:24:03] Speaker 4: Awesome? That was great.
[1:24:06] Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, it was a last minute thing. I
[1:24:10] Speaker 5: think I think I replaced a comedian actually, and so
[1:24:14] Speaker 5: more or less that entire scene is improvised cool. Yeah, yeah,
[1:24:19] Speaker 5: so that was pretty awesome. Two not so bad guys
[1:24:23] Speaker 5: to do it with, too and Martin and Will and
[1:24:26] Speaker 5: Will I think Will pitched me for that job because
[1:24:29] Speaker 5: I had done Bright with him a couple of years
[1:24:31] Speaker 5: before that, so that was that was kind of awesome.
[1:24:36] Speaker 5: And I didn't I mean, I knew so little of
[1:24:38] Speaker 5: what we were about to do that I didn't. It
[1:24:39] Speaker 5: didn't bother me. They were improvising because I was like,
[1:24:41] Speaker 5: I guess this is how this goes.
[1:24:43] Speaker 2: You know, so you like it all because you know,
[1:24:44] Speaker 2: with theater, I would assume you want some information, but
[1:24:48] Speaker 2: you enjoyed the improvising very much.
[1:24:51] Speaker 4: So yeah. Yeah.
[1:24:53] Speaker 5: The ideal thing is though the structure of a fully
[1:24:55] Speaker 5: realized and developed character, and then to improvise within that.
[1:24:58] Speaker 4: That's kind of the most fun.
[1:25:00] Speaker 2: I think, what was your original bad guy role that
[1:25:03] Speaker 2: that became. Oh yeah, yeah.
[1:25:10] Speaker 4: I was.
[1:25:10] Speaker 5: I was a Thuggan and that was my first, like
[1:25:12] Speaker 5: first time I had like a major arc in anything,
[1:25:15] Speaker 5: you know, for like two seasons.
[1:25:17] Speaker 2: Okay, and then you're in one of Kara's favorite shows, Clause.
[1:25:23] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I love Clause.
[1:25:27] Speaker 1: But you know what I was going to ask you
[1:25:28] Speaker 1: about is actually this show bar Kharma, this weird show
[1:25:32] Speaker 1: for Current TV.
[1:25:34] Speaker 4: Did you see that?
[1:25:34] Speaker 1: Dude? I was on it episode of it? Oh my god.
[1:25:38] Speaker 1: My boss was the executive producer of that show, like
[1:25:45] Speaker 1: not like the showrunner, but like the executive producers. He
[1:25:47] Speaker 1: was on set every day and he knew I was
[1:25:50] Speaker 1: acting and do and doing comedy and stuff, and so
[1:25:52] Speaker 1: he gave me like a little part on that show.
[1:25:54] Speaker 1: So when I was looking at your IMDb, I'm like,
[1:25:56] Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't believe this is an actual
[1:25:58] Speaker 1: person that's done bar Karma. Like it was such a
[1:26:02] Speaker 1: weird so show, but I'm glad.
[1:26:06] Speaker 4: You that's amazing.
[1:26:09] Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't remember what.
[1:26:10] Speaker 2: What is that show?
[1:26:11] Speaker 1: What is bart?
[1:26:12] Speaker 2: What is it? It's nonscript like a game show, no show,
[1:26:18] Speaker 2: which was so weird.
[1:26:19] Speaker 1: I feel like Current was trying to get into scripted
[1:26:22] Speaker 1: and I can't even tell you.
[1:26:26] Speaker 4: I can't.
[1:26:27] Speaker 1: I don't even remember what it was like about, Like.
[1:26:29] Speaker 4: It's I think time travel to some it's like.
[1:26:33] Speaker 2: Time travel, yes, something like that.
[1:26:35] Speaker 4: Yeah, you're like.
[1:26:37] Speaker 1: Did you see that?
[1:26:38] Speaker 2: No, I was on.
[1:26:42] Speaker 1: Crazy but this as VU episode murdered about address. So
[1:26:48] Speaker 1: you we love when they first find you. We like
[1:26:51] Speaker 1: thought your performance was so great that you that you
[1:26:54] Speaker 1: were just like, yeah, I kind of know, I've been
[1:26:57] Speaker 1: I know, it's not like I'm really busy. I got
[1:26:59] Speaker 1: stuff to do, Like I mean.
[1:27:00] Speaker 6: It was just such a casual, good take because usually
[1:27:03] Speaker 6: people are like so stressed and it's obviously you really
[1:27:08] Speaker 6: your character was really relaxed.
[1:27:12] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:27:13] Speaker 5: Yeah, well and when they hired me they said it
[1:27:15] Speaker 5: specifically because of the mind Hunter thing, So I was like, well,
[1:27:18] Speaker 5: if I'm the killer, then yeah, I have to be
[1:27:21] Speaker 5: comfortable with it, right, you know, And.
[1:27:23] Speaker 1: Because like a lot of times people will be like
[1:27:25] Speaker 1: because the whole thing is they try to get you
[1:27:27] Speaker 1: to say, oh, give your DNA, and then you'll just
[1:27:28] Speaker 1: be cleared and you're like a lot of times you'll
[1:27:30] Speaker 1: be like you want my DNA, No, I don't, I don't.
[1:27:35] Speaker 1: You know, you were just like the government getting my DNA,
[1:27:38] Speaker 1: I don't think. So, you know, like it was so
[1:27:40] Speaker 1: relaxed that it was like this is the guy who's
[1:27:41] Speaker 1: been getting away with crimes for two decades and he
[1:27:44] Speaker 1: knows how to get out of shit, you know, like
[1:27:47] Speaker 1: it's just so smooth. We don't know at the time
[1:27:49] Speaker 1: when we first meet your character, we don't necessarily know
[1:27:51] Speaker 1: you're the bad guy, but you play it smooth.
[1:27:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, it could have been a red herring, like you know,
[1:27:57] Speaker 2: you're you were just the first person that they talked to.
[1:28:01] Speaker 2: But no, because Karen mentioned like he's been getting away
[1:28:04] Speaker 2: with it for so long. That's probably where his confidence
[1:28:06] Speaker 2: and casualness comes from. And I wonder if he knew
[1:28:11] Speaker 2: attacking these like people would give him that.
[1:28:16] Speaker 1: Or if you learned that over time, you know what
[1:28:18] Speaker 1: I mean.
[1:28:18] Speaker 5: Like, I just wonder, well, when studying these people, it's
[1:28:22] Speaker 5: like they that's what gives them the confidence, is like
[1:28:25] Speaker 5: they do whatever they want and they get away with it.
[1:28:28] Speaker 5: So but by the time someone is middle aged or older,
[1:28:31] Speaker 5: it's like they're not going to catch me. They'll be silly.
[1:28:34] Speaker 1: No, you even have the confidence when you kind of
[1:28:36] Speaker 1: like drop the politeness in the next scene where they're
[1:28:40] Speaker 1: the next big scene that you have where you're like
[1:28:42] Speaker 1: saying all that stuff like I'm not I'm not festinto
[1:28:47] Speaker 1: no pedal, Like you're saying all this like slash Suddenly
[1:28:50] Speaker 1: you're just you're like the way you talk is different
[1:28:52] Speaker 1: the character and you're still like, I don't know. There
[1:28:57] Speaker 1: was a part where they were like, we have you
[1:29:00] Speaker 1: something back in two thousand and three, and he goes, oh,
[1:29:02] Speaker 1: the double murder. You know what, you're like telling on yourself.
[1:29:04] Speaker 1: But you're still so confident that you know about this
[1:29:07] Speaker 1: double murder. You know exactly what the time because.
[1:29:08] Speaker 2: You did it.
[1:29:09] Speaker 1: But you're not but you're like you're not even scared
[1:29:11] Speaker 1: to talk. And then you're just like using racist and
[1:29:14] Speaker 1: homophobic language and you're like I don't care, like I
[1:29:17] Speaker 1: literally can. I'm the king of the world. I could
[1:29:19] Speaker 1: have got I'm like a twenty year killer rapist who
[1:29:24] Speaker 1: I do what I want. But what do you remember
[1:29:27] Speaker 1: any like moments of shooting that, Like you had a
[1:29:32] Speaker 1: sleeve ball lawyer, the sleeve Ball lawyer.
[1:29:35] Speaker 5: That guy was funny man. I had ever met him before.
[1:29:38] Speaker 5: He was like, hey, yeah, like he was that guy,
[1:29:40] Speaker 5: you know. Uh, and he was a lot of fun
[1:29:44] Speaker 5: that the first day of filling was that time when
[1:29:46] Speaker 5: they first interviewed me in front of that building that
[1:29:48] Speaker 5: was in the Bronx and uh, and I just remember
[1:29:51] Speaker 5: everyone coming out to watch us and and uh, you
[1:29:55] Speaker 5: know in the neighborhood and and and uh that that
[1:30:00] Speaker 5: usually doesn't happen very much because sets are pretty like
[1:30:03] Speaker 5: locked down pretty well, but like it everyone's coming out
[1:30:06] Speaker 5: of their house and it was great.
[1:30:08] Speaker 4: I really enjoyed it. And Ice and I were.
[1:30:10] Speaker 5: You know, we're talking and taking pictures and everything, and
[1:30:13] Speaker 5: and it's like you could see the PA's like panicking
[1:30:15] Speaker 5: and not knowing what to do and and uh and
[1:30:18] Speaker 5: it was like, I don't know why, but I was
[1:30:20] Speaker 5: perfectly comfortable. I was like, I relax, we'll get to
[1:30:22] Speaker 5: it when we get to like who am I?
[1:30:23] Speaker 4: You know?
[1:30:24] Speaker 5: But uh? But that that was that said a good tone.
[1:30:27] Speaker 5: And of course Marishka is awesome. So when I when
[1:30:30] Speaker 5: we got back for those interrogation scenes, that.
[1:30:32] Speaker 4: Was, that was great.
[1:30:35] Speaker 5: Those are probably my favorite, certainly ever since mind Hunter.
[1:30:39] Speaker 5: I I seemed to specialize in sitting down and saying
[1:30:42] Speaker 5: bad shit.
[1:30:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, hey, I see one of one of the
[1:30:46] Speaker 1: Ice Cold fogs. He always says is don't stand if
[1:30:48] Speaker 1: you can sit, don't sit if you like you know.
[1:30:53] Speaker 2: And if you watch U s VU with that in mind,
[1:30:55] Speaker 2: you really start to notice how much leaning and sitting
[1:30:58] Speaker 2: he's doing a ton of it.
[1:31:01] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:31:02] Speaker 1: Really, I mean we're obsessed with everyone.
[1:31:06] Speaker 2: Do you remember any more like iced Ty Marishka moments
[1:31:10] Speaker 2: or specifics or anything like that.
[1:31:12] Speaker 4: Uh you say, you know, they were so uh, their
[1:31:18] Speaker 4: personalities are so different and they've been working together for
[1:31:21] Speaker 4: so long. It was it's very rare, you know, you're
[1:31:24] Speaker 4: just passing through on a show and everything is such
[1:31:27] Speaker 4: a well run machine. I mean it was.
[1:31:30] Speaker 5: It was very very straightforward, and we got through stuff fast,
[1:31:34] Speaker 5: and uh, you know Ice would kind of go back
[1:31:37] Speaker 5: by himself and Mariska would stay and chat with everybody
[1:31:40] Speaker 5: and kind of hold court and be lovely. And I
[1:31:43] Speaker 5: sort of really like both versions of that because I
[1:31:45] Speaker 5: can appreciate someone wanting to keep to themselves, but I
[1:31:48] Speaker 5: also like she's one of the best number ones I've
[1:31:51] Speaker 5: worked with, Like her and Will Smith are like they
[1:31:54] Speaker 5: set the standard of like like how to be and
[1:31:57] Speaker 5: accept that responsibility of being number one on the call
[1:31:59] Speaker 5: SAT and making everyone feel welcome and good and you know,
[1:32:03] Speaker 5: just setting a great gray vibe. So that was awesome,
[1:32:07] Speaker 5: you know, and she's been doing it for so long.
[1:32:09] Speaker 5: It was so professional and so clear and Crisp.
[1:32:13] Speaker 1: Woll, that's cool. Will Smith, Huh. We always hear that
[1:32:16] Speaker 1: Marishka was like an impeccable number one, Like she's the
[1:32:19] Speaker 1: reason the show has been on but we'll stiff too. Yeah.
[1:32:23] Speaker 2: People say, like he yeah, in his book he talk
[1:32:26] Speaker 2: about but he remembers everyone's name.
[1:32:27] Speaker 5: Oh like on Bright, he through birthday parties for crew
[1:32:32] Speaker 5: members and stuff.
[1:32:33] Speaker 1: Oh that's so nice.
[1:32:35] Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah he was. He was really really.
[1:32:37] Speaker 1: So you've worked with him a couple of times? Then
[1:32:38] Speaker 1: I guess.
[1:32:39] Speaker 4: Huh, yeah, Well I did Bright and then two years later,
[1:32:42] Speaker 4: bad boys came up and went whomever it was they
[1:32:44] Speaker 4: couldn't do it. He just said, well, we just get
[1:32:47] Speaker 4: this guy.
[1:32:48] Speaker 5: I was doing a play in New York and like then,
[1:32:51] Speaker 5: after the mattinee and set, I got the call on
[1:32:54] Speaker 5: a Friday. After the matinee, on Sunday, I flew down
[1:32:56] Speaker 5: to Atlanta and shot all day Tuesday, all day Monday,
[1:32:59] Speaker 5: half the day Tuesday, went back to New York to
[1:33:01] Speaker 5: get to make the night time performance on Tuesday.
[1:33:03] Speaker 1: Wow, so wait, but you're are you currently in Brigadoon
[1:33:07] Speaker 1: at Pasadena Playhouse? I am, It's so crazy. I was
[1:33:09] Speaker 1: looking at your you know, I was researching you, slash
[1:33:11] Speaker 1: stocking your instagrams, trying to see and I saw and
[1:33:14] Speaker 1: then Pasadena Playhouse emails me all the time because I've
[1:33:17] Speaker 1: seen stuff there and I was like, Oh, the guy
[1:33:19] Speaker 1: we're interviewing today's in Brigadoon. And then I was like, oh,
[1:33:21] Speaker 1: he's in it right now, Like I did, I put
[1:33:23] Speaker 1: it all together. That's exciting. And it's only playing for
[1:33:25] Speaker 1: like another week and a half or something.
[1:33:28] Speaker 4: Fourteenth fourteenth?
[1:33:31] Speaker 2: Wow? Yeah, wait, do you have any dream theater roles?
[1:33:34] Speaker 4: The false Staff?
[1:33:37] Speaker 2: What is it? False staff?
[1:33:38] Speaker 4: False staff?
[1:33:39] Speaker 5: He's he shows up in about five Shakespeare plays the
[1:33:43] Speaker 5: Henry's Marywise of windsor.
[1:33:48] Speaker 4: What else?
[1:33:48] Speaker 5: He's he's He's a retired night who's funny in a
[1:33:52] Speaker 5: fall down drunk but also in a ton of pain, okay,
[1:33:57] Speaker 5: and processing grief and pain while also making people laugh.
[1:34:00] Speaker 5: And it's just it's it's like it's like the perfect role,
[1:34:04] Speaker 5: I think.
[1:34:05] Speaker 1: And you have time. This guy looks old, right, so
[1:34:08] Speaker 1: this is like.
[1:34:10] Speaker 2: You have like year this, you have decades to make
[1:34:14] Speaker 2: it half a fill.
[1:34:15] Speaker 4: This from your lips to God's ears, my friend?
[1:34:17] Speaker 2: Yeah, you got uh cool? I just saw Titus and
[1:34:21] Speaker 2: Dronicus and I it was off Broadway, but like on
[1:34:25] Speaker 2: forty second and tenth or forty fifth and tenth, the
[1:34:28] Speaker 2: guy from Hadestown was in it. Patrick Page, Okay, Adam. Okay,
[1:34:32] Speaker 2: my other But I didn't know Shakespeare were such a freak.
[1:34:37] Speaker 4: Good dude, you haven't seen nothing yet.
[1:34:40] Speaker 2: Wait?
[1:34:40] Speaker 1: What what's creep? What's crazier than that one?
[1:34:43] Speaker 4: Oh?
[1:34:43] Speaker 5: So last year? It hasn't come out yet, but it's
[1:34:47] Speaker 5: maybe even two years ago. I had a smaller part
[1:34:50] Speaker 5: in a movie called Lear Rex, which is a film
[1:34:52] Speaker 5: adaptation of king Lear where al Pacino plays King Lear
[1:34:57] Speaker 5: and uh, and that's an incredibly violent and also like
[1:35:01] Speaker 5: dementia ridden character. This version is interesting because it's half
[1:35:05] Speaker 5: in like regular current day speak, and then half uh
[1:35:09] Speaker 5: the Shakespeare's actual text, because it's about uh, like an
[1:35:12] Speaker 5: eight year old actor who all his life has wanted
[1:35:14] Speaker 5: to play King Lear, but now he's in a coma
[1:35:17] Speaker 5: and the play plays out in his head, in his mind,
[1:35:20] Speaker 5: and people from his real life are show up as
[1:35:22] Speaker 5: characters in the stop.
[1:35:24] Speaker 2: This seems When is this coming out?
[1:35:26] Speaker 4: Well? That's just it. I don't know.
[1:35:32] Speaker 2: How. That's so crazy, Like al Pacino's in an indie
[1:35:35] Speaker 2: that's not selling, Like what the fuck? Like, what's happening?
[1:35:38] Speaker 2: I want it?
[1:35:40] Speaker 1: It's crazy?
[1:35:42] Speaker 2: Is in it?
[1:35:43] Speaker 4: Yeah? I know, Rachel? You know what I found out too.
[1:35:46] Speaker 5: Ted Levine is in it, who played Buffalo Bill of
[1:35:48] Speaker 5: course in science and he blayed based Buffalo Bill on
[1:35:52] Speaker 5: Jerry Brutos, Oh my.
[1:35:53] Speaker 1: God, and the Keith Sanfield Peter Dinklage, I mean like
[1:35:58] Speaker 1: the Ariana Debo's this is like a Rachel Brosna and
[1:36:01] Speaker 1: his cast is wild.
[1:36:02] Speaker 2: Oh Christmas Cina Wait, this is nuts. This seems cool.
[1:36:06] Speaker 1: And it was a writer director.
[1:36:09] Speaker 4: Yeah, Bernard Rose.
[1:36:10] Speaker 5: Yeah, he so he wrote the modern day parts and
[1:36:14] Speaker 5: obviously Shakespeare wrote the dream parts, but I only was
[1:36:18] Speaker 5: only in the Shakespeare sections.
[1:36:19] Speaker 2: Okay, well he made candy Man, so.
[1:36:23] Speaker 4: He did make Candy Man animate, immortal, beloved.
[1:36:25] Speaker 1: So yeah, we need Annie did Anna Karinna.
[1:36:29] Speaker 2: Damn. You've worked with such great people for so many years.
[1:36:33] Speaker 2: Have you ever been starstruck or yeah?
[1:36:37] Speaker 4: With DeNiro, I was yeah.
[1:36:38] Speaker 2: Wow, that was the comedian.
[1:36:40] Speaker 5: Yeah, and the final callback everyone had to read with
[1:36:44] Speaker 5: Bob de Niro, and I watched people melt down and
[1:36:48] Speaker 5: he's been my hero since I was about nine, so
[1:36:51] Speaker 5: it was surreal to walk into an audition and have
[1:36:55] Speaker 5: him be there. But I I handled my shit well
[1:36:58] Speaker 5: because I knew that if I act like how I
[1:37:00] Speaker 5: wanted to act, there was no way he's going to
[1:37:02] Speaker 5: want to be around me. So I had a great
[1:37:06] Speaker 5: you know, you hear all kinds of things about all
[1:37:08] Speaker 5: these big stars. In my experience was that he was
[1:37:10] Speaker 5: lovely and I had a really, really great time with him,
[1:37:13] Speaker 5: and I'm greatful.
[1:37:14] Speaker 4: I mean, that was a highlight for sure. Usually I
[1:37:16] Speaker 4: don't get starstruck.
[1:37:17] Speaker 5: I get starstruck sometimes around professional athletes, but they're like
[1:37:20] Speaker 5: old men now because they're like from the nineteen eighty
[1:37:22] Speaker 5: six New York message.
[1:37:25] Speaker 1: That's wild.
[1:37:26] Speaker 2: So you love sports and the theater. So in high
[1:37:28] Speaker 2: school did you play sports? Was it hard to balance
[1:37:30] Speaker 2: at all?
[1:37:31] Speaker 5: It was very easy to let sports go because I
[1:37:33] Speaker 5: was much better at acting than I was the sport
[1:37:36] Speaker 5: I loved. I loved playing, but I was like third
[1:37:39] Speaker 5: string everything. My favorite one to play was football because
[1:37:42] Speaker 5: I could actually do something like I could knock a
[1:37:44] Speaker 5: guy over.
[1:37:45] Speaker 1: That was But yeah, I just hate running. That's my
[1:37:50] Speaker 1: fat all sports. I don't like running very.
[1:37:51] Speaker 4: Much, running up and down the court and everything. It's like,
[1:37:54] Speaker 4: come on, man, I can't do here. Put it in.
[1:37:57] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:37:59] Speaker 2: Wait, if you were to come back to SVU for
[1:38:03] Speaker 2: a third time, who would you like to be?
[1:38:07] Speaker 5: I'd like to be like a specialized like agent, like
[1:38:10] Speaker 5: if he needed the FBI or the BA or something
[1:38:13] Speaker 5: like like like the weather like has a cigarette in
[1:38:15] Speaker 5: his mouth. It's like, all right, I'm going to straighten
[1:38:17] Speaker 5: all this shit out, you know, like that.
[1:38:19] Speaker 2: What do you do?
[1:38:20] Speaker 1: You have anything coming up after Brigadoon?
[1:38:23] Speaker 4: I don't know what my next job is.
[1:38:25] Speaker 5: Right before Brigadoon, I did a few episodes of this
[1:38:27] Speaker 5: thing called this new series called The Spot, which will
[1:38:30] Speaker 5: be on Hulu.
[1:38:33] Speaker 4: I wonder if I think next year it's.
[1:38:37] Speaker 2: I don't know if it's upcoming.
[1:38:39] Speaker 1: Oh my god.
[1:38:40] Speaker 5: Claire Danes, yeah, yeah, and the showrunner who's doing it.
[1:38:44] Speaker 5: I'd worked with him and Claire two years ago on
[1:38:46] Speaker 5: a different thing called Full Circle, and we filmed in
[1:38:50] Speaker 5: my old hometown in upstate New York. It was the
[1:38:52] Speaker 5: craziest thing. Uh like uh like video no no no.
[1:38:58] Speaker 5: Base camp was in the park a lot of the
[1:39:00] Speaker 5: bank where I opened my first bank.
[1:39:02] Speaker 4: Account at sixteen years old.
[1:39:03] Speaker 1: Where are you from?
[1:39:05] Speaker 5: I'm from High Falls, New York. It's a tiny little town.
[1:39:09] Speaker 5: The gas station where I stole my first beer was
[1:39:11] Speaker 5: right across the street. Well, so if you leave, if
[1:39:15] Speaker 5: you get on the Metro North out of Grand Central.
[1:39:19] Speaker 5: The last stop of the Metro North is Poughkeepsie. So
[1:39:22] Speaker 5: then after Poughkeepsie is New Pauls, and then after New
[1:39:24] Speaker 5: Paul's is High Falls where I grew up. Okay, so
[1:39:27] Speaker 5: I grew up like in the woods and shit, like
[1:39:29] Speaker 5: in mountains and farms and everything.
[1:39:31] Speaker 2: Well, you have so many So the All Nighter, Capsize,
[1:39:36] Speaker 2: Magic Circle.
[1:39:39] Speaker 5: Well, the Magic Circle was a short. I don't know
[1:39:41] Speaker 5: if that ever came out or not. But the three
[1:39:43] Speaker 5: movies that are supposed to come out either the end
[1:39:45] Speaker 5: of this year or early next year are The Lyrics,
[1:39:47] Speaker 5: Capsized and The All Nighter.
[1:39:50] Speaker 2: Yeah, this is exciting. I can't wait for this lear
[1:39:53] Speaker 2: situation now that I'm.
[1:39:55] Speaker 4: Dude, me too, what's it coming?
[1:39:59] Speaker 1: It's so well, well, this was awesome, thank you? Yeah, Capsize.
[1:40:03] Speaker 1: The first three people in the cast are SVU heavy hitters.
[1:40:07] Speaker 1: Kidding Yeah, well Lily rad Lily, Lily Rob Sarah, Sarah,
[1:40:13] Speaker 1: Catherine Hook Yeah, yep, yeah, that'll be a good No,
[1:40:18] Speaker 1: our minds are broken.
[1:40:19] Speaker 2: I mean, if I'm just con every playbill I'm looking
[1:40:22] Speaker 2: for SVU, I'm like, who, what's going on?
[1:40:26] Speaker 4: You'll very easily find it?
[1:40:27] Speaker 1: Do you have any last minute memories from your SVU
[1:40:30] Speaker 1: time that you want to impart on us before you
[1:40:33] Speaker 1: we say goodbye. And your go to craft service snack.
[1:40:37] Speaker 5: Yeah, oh okay, well the go to craft service snack
[1:40:43] Speaker 5: would be gosh uh. The Blacklist had a very specific
[1:40:49] Speaker 5: kind of doughnut that I've always tried to get ever since,
[1:40:52] Speaker 5: and they're hard to find and I came for what
[1:40:53] Speaker 5: they're called.
[1:40:54] Speaker 4: But that was awesome SVU.
[1:40:57] Speaker 5: I would encourage if you can get a job on it,
[1:40:59] Speaker 5: do it because it is the most fun, the most like,
[1:41:02] Speaker 5: well run, everyone's really cool and you get to tell
[1:41:07] Speaker 5: great stories and they're.
[1:41:08] Speaker 4: Constantly meeting people. It seems, so go do it.
[1:41:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, do people give you seven the seven Dwarf happy gifts?
[1:41:16] Speaker 4: Like do you have a lot of happy everything you
[1:41:18] Speaker 4: can figure about?
[1:41:19] Speaker 5: To Gilmore the song Oh my God.
[1:41:23] Speaker 2: The.
[1:41:26] Speaker 1: Farrell song.
[1:41:28] Speaker 4: That's so funny, especially because everyone for the first three
[1:41:32] Speaker 4: years that song came out, everyone thought they were the
[1:41:35] Speaker 4: first person to think to sing.
[1:41:36] Speaker 2: That to me.
[1:41:37] Speaker 4: Of course, oh the guy I had the song?
[1:41:40] Speaker 1: Right, Okay, I hope you never meet Pharrell. You're gonna
[1:41:44] Speaker 1: have to show love happy obsessed. Well, I just.
[1:41:52] Speaker 2: Love multitudes you know, be a theater dork. Love sports.
[1:41:56] Speaker 1: Love that. Yeah, he I just love that. He's Yeah,
[1:42:01] Speaker 1: he seems like truly a man that lives up to
[1:42:03] Speaker 1: his name. He seems like a happy man who's just
[1:42:05] Speaker 1: like doing a bunch of But also it is kind
[1:42:07] Speaker 1: of hilarious that his name is Happy and he plays
[1:42:10] Speaker 1: all these brutal murderers all the time. And he says
[1:42:13] Speaker 1: that's like how he gets cast a lot, and then
[1:42:16] Speaker 1: his name is Happy.
[1:42:18] Speaker 2: I know it's just because he's giant. Oh yeah, he's six'.
[1:42:21] Speaker 1: Four he's.
[1:42:22] Speaker 2: Menacing oh. Wow.
[1:42:24] Speaker 1: Yeah you know what's crazy IS i don't really think
[1:42:25] Speaker 1: you get the height of him in THE. SVU i
[1:42:28] Speaker 1: did it In My. Hunter oh, okay did he seem
[1:42:31] Speaker 1: really tall to you IN? SVU i think when he
[1:42:32] Speaker 1: was talking To rollins at first he was like on
[1:42:35] Speaker 1: a step.
[1:42:35] Speaker 2: No and then you notice for, ME i noticed a
[1:42:37] Speaker 2: lot when he was sitting in interrogation, like, yeah he's
[1:42:39] Speaker 2: like a big.
[1:42:40] Speaker 1: Guy and in the lineup now that i'm thinking about,
[1:42:43] Speaker 1: it in the lineup when he's LIKE i don't want
[1:42:44] Speaker 1: to say, this, yeah he seemed. Bigger and the fact
[1:42:47] Speaker 1: when he was, like OH i was the best step.
[1:42:48] Speaker 2: Football it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah but yeah, cool but.
[1:42:56] Speaker 1: Yeah this episode is like, really it's just sad that
[1:43:01] Speaker 1: people don't that there's just like the limited resources of
[1:43:07] Speaker 1: certain neighborhoods also means you don't get the same justice
[1:43:11] Speaker 1: as in other. Neighborhoods you, know like people are just
[1:43:13] Speaker 1: gonna like throw you in jail for shit you didn't.
[1:43:16] Speaker 1: Do you're not going to fully, research like because there
[1:43:18] Speaker 1: were other rapes that this guy did and it didn't
[1:43:22] Speaker 1: feel like anybody was really investigating.
[1:43:23] Speaker 2: Those and again back to, homophobia you can't be.
[1:43:26] Speaker 3: Gay he.
[1:43:27] Speaker 2: Couldn't he would rather like this guy would rather, not
[1:43:29] Speaker 2: would rather like he had to make a, choice and
[1:43:31] Speaker 2: it's like he couldn't give his.
[1:43:34] Speaker 1: Alibi, yeah AND i wonder, if like at, eighteen he
[1:43:40] Speaker 1: was just too scared to say he was at this
[1:43:41] Speaker 1: hookup beach and didn't realize that it would be even,
[1:43:45] Speaker 1: worse like that prison would be worse than like coming
[1:43:48] Speaker 1: out to your. Family, no because the way people talk
[1:43:51] Speaker 1: about gay, people depending where you grow, up it's like
[1:43:54] Speaker 1: the worst thing you can. Imagine, yeah, yeah you're, LIKE
[1:43:57] Speaker 1: i might as well go to your whole.
[1:43:59] Speaker 2: Life you, know people in jail probably like if it's,
[1:44:01] Speaker 2: projects you, know Like i'm doing, stereotypes but like you,
[1:44:05] Speaker 2: know you know tons of people that go to, jail
[1:44:08] Speaker 2: but like, you and then you probably like that's Not
[1:44:11] Speaker 2: and THEN i bet people talk.
[1:44:12] Speaker 1: Worse about gay people than people in.
[1:44:15] Speaker 2: Prison yeah that's. True there's like a polar kind of
[1:44:19] Speaker 2: MEME i always, see and it's not comparing the. Two
[1:44:21] Speaker 2: it's just like a fan or like some answer like
[1:44:24] Speaker 2: whatever some parents were like bitching, About like it's like
[1:44:27] Speaker 2: cousins and like making fun of a gay cousin and
[1:44:29] Speaker 2: it's like you have like eight baby daddies and your
[1:44:32] Speaker 2: kid is in, Prison like what are you talking?
[1:44:34] Speaker 1: About like what is this judgment coming?
[1:44:36] Speaker 2: From you, know.
[1:44:38] Speaker 1: But in a lot of places or like.
[1:44:41] Speaker 2: Whatever it just is, Culture LIKE i don't, know people
[1:44:43] Speaker 2: hate gay, people the idea of being get it's like
[1:44:45] Speaker 2: all of. It it's LIKE i understand how an eighteen
[1:44:48] Speaker 2: year old boy from that neighborhood is just like fuck.
[1:44:51] Speaker 1: That let's get to our what would sit your peg?
[1:44:53] Speaker 1: Do this is the segment where we direct you towards an,
[1:44:56] Speaker 1: organization a book of doc something to give you more
[1:45:02] Speaker 1: info about what we talked. About AND i am LIKE
[1:45:05] Speaker 1: i don't know if It's orange Or New black or,
[1:45:06] Speaker 1: whatever But i'm very, like sort of hyper focused on
[1:45:10] Speaker 1: recidivism and how hard it is to actually be cleared
[1:45:13] Speaker 1: of crimes or to pay for your crimes with jail
[1:45:16] Speaker 1: time and then get out of, prison and how difficult
[1:45:18] Speaker 1: it is to re enter the. World SO i was
[1:45:20] Speaker 1: looking for an organization that dealt with, that AND i
[1:45:24] Speaker 1: wanted to point you guys towards The Frederick Douglas project For.
[1:45:27] Speaker 1: Justice this group facilitates structured meetings and respectful conversations between
[1:45:31] Speaker 1: members of free society and incarcerated people so that they
[1:45:35] Speaker 1: can learn from each, other form powerful human, connections and
[1:45:37] Speaker 1: transform both their own lives and society at. Large and
[1:45:41] Speaker 1: they organize prison. Visits they try to bring people into
[1:45:45] Speaker 1: prison so they can like humanize, people not just, say,
[1:45:47] Speaker 1: oh these people live behind, bars like away from, us you,
[1:45:51] Speaker 1: know away from the rest of. Society you can go
[1:45:53] Speaker 1: into a, prison meet with, people see how they. Work
[1:45:57] Speaker 1: so you can sign up for a prison visit or
[1:45:59] Speaker 1: donate At douglasproject dot. Org and That's douglas with two
[1:46:04] Speaker 1: s's and that will be linked in our show notes as,
[1:46:07] Speaker 1: always and we will post a story with the link
[1:46:10] Speaker 1: on the day the show comes out on Our instagram,
[1:46:12] Speaker 1: page which is thats Messed up, pod and then all
[1:46:14] Speaker 1: of our what Would sister peg do stories are saved
[1:46:16] Speaker 1: in THE wwspd, highlights so if you're listening to this
[1:46:19] Speaker 1: later you can go back and find.
[1:46:20] Speaker 2: It, yes thank you so, much AND i forget like
[1:46:26] Speaker 2: for the post, morning we forgot to talk about like
[1:46:28] Speaker 2: how one fucking cop ruined so many countless.
[1:46:33] Speaker 1: LIVES i, know and we've talked about it, Before like
[1:46:37] Speaker 1: it's just crazy that there's been sweeps of THE. Mipd
[1:46:39] Speaker 1: there have been like corruption sweeps and it doesn't. Stop like.
[1:46:45] Speaker 2: But next, week, Ooh i'm so excited we'll be Doing
[1:46:48] Speaker 2: savant season, nine episode, FOUR A, DREAM A, DREAM a true?
[1:46:53] Speaker 1: Classic what is? It mommy's a? Whole there's LIKE i can't.
[1:46:57] Speaker 1: WAIT i just always think perfect. Pitch, okay thank you
[1:47:03] Speaker 1: guys so much for. Listening we love all you, tommies
[1:47:05] Speaker 1: and we will see you next week and you, know
[1:47:09] Speaker 1: happy fourth Of. July despite everything that's messed up as
[1:47:21] Speaker 1: an exactly right, Production if you have compliments you'd like
[1:47:24] Speaker 1: to give us or episodes you'd like us to, cover
[1:47:26] Speaker 1: shoot us an email It That's messed uppod at gmail dot.
[1:47:29] Speaker 1: Com listen To That's Messed up on The iHeartRadio, App Apple,
[1:47:33] Speaker 1: podcasts or wherever you get your.
[1:47:34] Speaker 2: Podcasts follow the podcast On instagram At That's Messed Up,
[1:47:38] Speaker 2: pod and follow us personally At Kara klank and at Glitter.
[1:47:42] Speaker 1: Cheese as, always please see our show notes for sources
[1:47:45] Speaker 1: and more.
[1:47:45] Speaker 2: Information thank you so much to our senior Producer casey
[1:47:49] Speaker 2: O'Brien and our associate Producer Christina, chamberlain.
[1:47:52] Speaker 1: And to our Mixer John bradley and our guest Booker Patrick,
[1:47:55] Speaker 1: Cottner and To Henry kaperski for our theme song And
[1:47:58] Speaker 1: carly Gen andrews for our. Artwork thank you to our
[1:48:01] Speaker 1: executive Producers Georgia, Hardstart Karen, Kilgarriff Daniel, kramer and everybody
[1:48:06] Speaker 1: At Exactly Right.
[1:48:07] Speaker 3: Media Dun dunn

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