# Spooked w/ Vincent Spano

An episode of [That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1540370040), 27 Jan 2026, 2 h 23 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/cf7e6913-a01e-4666-a095-b24c0047c637/9a6c3350-93e5-4f55-b8b5-b3db0167ed40/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=c3a2c876-20bf-449b-8d54-b24c0047c64d

In this episode, Liza and Kara recap the episode, “Spooked” (Season 11, Episode 6), discuss the tragic Rachel Hoffman case, and interview the fantastic Vincent Spano. SOURCES: Wikipedia - Murder of Rachel Hoffman The New Yorker ABC News Tallahassee Democrat Wikipedia - Operation Mongoose Wikipedia - Operation Northwoods Wikipedia - Los Zetas WHAT WOULD SISTER PEG DO: The Throwaways by Sarah Stillman Next week’s episode will be “Dance, Lies and Videotape" (Season 21, Episode 17). Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3yb7hqu See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
[0:04] Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
[0:07] Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
[0:07] Speaker 3: These episodes are based.
[0:08] Speaker 4: On These are our stories, done done.
[0:27] Speaker 3: Who do Who?
[0:28] Speaker 2: It's another episode of That's Messed Up an SVW podcast.
[0:32] Speaker 3: I'm Liza Draeger.
[0:34] Speaker 1: And I'm Kara Klank And every week it's SVU episodes,
[0:38] Speaker 1: true crimes, fun guests, and talking about Heated Rivalry. I
[0:45] Speaker 1: finished if I finished, I got my homework assignment, I
[0:49] Speaker 1: did my homework assignment. I put my nose to the grindstone,
[0:52] Speaker 1: and I finished it up. I loved it. It was
[0:54] Speaker 1: so good. I don't want to spoil anything. If you
[0:57] Speaker 1: haven't finished Heated Rivalry, I'm sorry.
[0:59] Speaker 2: Also, books like the memes of if you have seen
[1:01] Speaker 2: the memes or the books or this show.
[1:04] Speaker 1: Like I just like, really like the way the season
[1:06] Speaker 1: ended because in my mind, this is exactly how I
[1:09] Speaker 1: felt about Baby Girl. Remember when I saw a baby
[1:11] Speaker 1: girl and I kept going, when is one of the
[1:13] Speaker 1: men gonna kill her? When is one of the men
[1:14] Speaker 1: gonna kill her? Like either her husband's gonna kill her?
[1:16] Speaker 1: And then like that's not what happened in the end.
[1:18] Speaker 1: It was just kind of like an ending of people
[1:21] Speaker 1: working through things and figuring it out. In this episode,
[1:24] Speaker 1: I kept being like, oh my god, they're gonna get
[1:26] Speaker 1: out it. It's gonna be all over the internet, and
[1:27] Speaker 1: they're gonna lose their careers and everyone's gonna be mad
[1:29] Speaker 1: at them. And then his mom's gonna lose all he's
[1:31] Speaker 1: gonna lose all his endorsements and like whatever. And it's like,
[1:33] Speaker 1: that's not what happened, Like they had this like nice,
[1:36] Speaker 1: lovely ending. I just thought it was gonna end on
[1:38] Speaker 1: some horrible cliffhanger that we were gonna be like, oh.
[1:43] Speaker 2: No, but well, so that's okay. So a few things
[1:46] Speaker 2: that have been targeted to me on the internet. Okay, one,
[1:50] Speaker 2: that's why people are so comforted by this show, because
[1:52] Speaker 2: I think we're so used to bad things happening, yes,
[1:55] Speaker 2: and that were really relieved that things keep going good.
[1:59] Speaker 3: And they even use the the example and what I watched.
[2:01] Speaker 2: Of Kip like dropping the tray and then people being like, no,
[2:06] Speaker 2: you need money, You're not getting fired, Like everything's cool yea.
[2:09] Speaker 3: And so then I saw another.
[2:10] Speaker 2: Post from a few people that was like, oh, welcome
[2:13] Speaker 2: to the romance genre. Guys, like it's like a warm hug.
[2:16] Speaker 2: Everything is good, Like that's I guess.
[2:18] Speaker 3: I guess the next book they go through more life
[2:20] Speaker 3: stuff as a couple.
[2:21] Speaker 2: But I guess what I'm learning is the romance genre
[2:25] Speaker 2: provides positivity, is what I'm learning from the Internet. And
[2:29] Speaker 2: thanks for everyone telling me that you've seen every single
[2:32] Speaker 2: one of my likes. I have to like stop liking it,
[2:35] Speaker 2: but I don't want anything else in my edit. I
[2:37] Speaker 2: still haven't watched anything else.
[2:39] Speaker 1: I haven't even been seeing that many memes and I'm
[2:41] Speaker 1: watching it.
[2:43] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the Psychosis is for sure real for.
[2:47] Speaker 3: Me a lot.
[2:52] Speaker 1: I really like it, and I thought I loved like again.
[2:59] Speaker 1: I thought Sophie Nalisa's character was gonna find out he
[3:03] Speaker 1: was gay, to be like, how could you fucking do
[3:04] Speaker 1: this to me? And like out him, and instead she's like, Babe,
[3:07] Speaker 1: I think you might be gay?
[3:08] Speaker 3: Do you want to just be besties?
[3:09] Speaker 1: I'm like, wait, I need to like reprogram my brain
[3:13] Speaker 1: when I'm watching the show. I've watched thousands of hours
[3:16] Speaker 1: of Law and Order SVU, where like no one's ever
[3:18] Speaker 1: being nice for real, you know, like someone's always trying
[3:22] Speaker 1: to get and housewives and like all these shows everything
[3:25] Speaker 1: I watched about people backstabbing each other or like murder shows,
[3:29] Speaker 1: and like it's really just like these two guys really
[3:33] Speaker 1: just finding out who they are and that they love
[3:37] Speaker 1: each other.
[3:37] Speaker 3: Oh, it's great. And the cottages are also so nice.
[3:41] Speaker 1: And I know my cottage using the word cottage to
[3:44] Speaker 1: describe his lake house as honestly kind of crazy.
[3:46] Speaker 2: Well, no, it's a Canadian thing. It's a Canadian thing. Oh,
[3:49] Speaker 2: it's like their word for lake house. Everyone has a cottage.
[3:52] Speaker 2: Every Canadian I know talks about it's Steph told like
[3:54] Speaker 2: everyone kind of it's a it's a cultural thing.
[3:58] Speaker 1: They know that in these states is like a tiny
[4:01] Speaker 1: little house.
[4:02] Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's a Canadian show. It's Canadian.
[4:04] Speaker 2: Yeah, I just was and I guess like in Shit's
[4:07] Speaker 2: Creek there was a tune of melt thing, so that
[4:09] Speaker 2: might be a Canadian thing as well.
[4:11] Speaker 1: On top of the gingeril, I just love tuna melts,
[4:13] Speaker 1: so I was excited about that they had the brand
[4:17] Speaker 1: name Pickles in it, which I was very into as well.
[4:21] Speaker 3: How'd you feel about the Russian monologue.
[4:23] Speaker 1: Oh on the phone, Yeah, amazing, that was like breaking
[4:29] Speaker 1: my heart.
[4:29] Speaker 3: I loved that. Yeah, I love that, and I loved
[4:33] Speaker 3: their card.
[4:34] Speaker 1: That fucking guy doesn't speak Russian, not that you would
[4:37] Speaker 1: be hard to fool me, but like, oh my god,
[4:41] Speaker 1: it's just crazy because it was like they probably had
[4:46] Speaker 1: to get that, like mostly in I guess they do
[4:49] Speaker 1: cut away to Holland or a little bit, but like
[4:52] Speaker 1: the way the snow is falling, it's like you got
[4:53] Speaker 1: to get that pretty quick, you know, like and so
[4:57] Speaker 1: it's like he can't be like line, can you read
[4:59] Speaker 1: that to and Russian again? You know, we probably just
[5:01] Speaker 1: had to like fucking know it inside and out. It's crazy.
[5:05] Speaker 2: It's cly when you see like studiousness. They had to
[5:09] Speaker 2: learn so many things. Yeah, because I also had to
[5:12] Speaker 2: learn how to ice skate. Yeah, they said that was.
[5:17] Speaker 1: And him getting him getting hit. I was like, that's it.
[5:20] Speaker 1: It's over. He's paralyzed. He's paralyzed, and now it's gonna
[5:25] Speaker 1: be about weather. It's gonna be about whether Ilia can
[5:28] Speaker 1: stay with him when he's paralyzed. And it's like, no,
[5:31] Speaker 1: he just broke his collarbone. They're gonna go to the cottage.
[5:33] Speaker 1: Like I just my nervous system needs like a reset
[5:37] Speaker 1: when I'm watching that show, because I am whenever I
[5:41] Speaker 1: watch any show, I'm trying to think like three steps
[5:43] Speaker 1: ahead of like what's gonna happen, and I'm just completely incorrect.
[5:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, the spittle scene was like so sweet. I loved
[5:50] Speaker 2: him on drugs. It was so nice. But then like
[5:52] Speaker 2: they had to be closeted again immediately, you know when
[5:55] Speaker 2: the nurse walked in. Yeah, I don't know, yeah, like cool.
[6:00] Speaker 2: And I loved the music. I liked the Tampa Bay episode.
[6:03] Speaker 2: I liked that scene, those scenes a lot at the
[6:05] Speaker 2: bar and stuff.
[6:06] Speaker 3: Yeah, I liked and the music.
[6:10] Speaker 1: Mom being like upset that like not that he's gay,
[6:13] Speaker 1: but that he didn't feel comfortable telling her about it,
[6:15] Speaker 1: like that kind of stuff is like, so I it was,
[6:18] Speaker 1: It's great, it's great.
[6:20] Speaker 3: It's great.
[6:21] Speaker 2: I'm telling everyone, Yeah, and the boyfriend that. There's also
[6:24] Speaker 2: like so many funny lines too that I've grown to
[6:27] Speaker 2: I appreciate as well.
[6:28] Speaker 1: It's funny. Yeah, it's definitely. I like where they're going.
[6:32] Speaker 1: I like when he hires a stylist. He's like, I
[6:34] Speaker 1: didn't look like I was working out all the time.
[6:36] Speaker 3: Like, well, no.
[6:37] Speaker 2: I love when he was like I need to circulate,
[6:40] Speaker 2: and Ilia is like, well, yeah, you have new clothes
[6:41] Speaker 2: to show off.
[6:42] Speaker 3: Like I loved that, love that a lot. No, oh,
[6:47] Speaker 3: I don't know if I talked about this last time.
[6:49] Speaker 2: But so they did press on set, you know, they
[6:52] Speaker 2: were like doing for Crave and I watched those and
[6:55] Speaker 2: basically they ask everyone, like, what group chats are you in?
[6:58] Speaker 3: Are their group chats cast group chats?
[7:00] Speaker 2: So like some of them are like, oh, I'm in
[7:01] Speaker 2: a group chat with these people, and then Hudson's like, oh,
[7:04] Speaker 2: they splinter off, and so like who's the funniest in
[7:06] Speaker 2: the group chat? And then it's the girl from Yellow
[7:09] Speaker 2: Jackets and she's like, no, there isn't one. Wait unless
[7:13] Speaker 2: there is, and I'm just.
[7:13] Speaker 3: Not in it.
[7:14] Speaker 2: And then she turns to everyone and she's like is
[7:16] Speaker 2: there a group chat?
[7:18] Speaker 3: And it's really uncomfortable.
[7:19] Speaker 2: She's this is really sad and embarrassing, like are you guys?
[7:23] Speaker 3: You're fucking with me? Right? And it's like it was
[7:26] Speaker 3: devastating to watch.
[7:27] Speaker 2: Oh no, but I wonder if she came towards the
[7:30] Speaker 2: end of filmmaking.
[7:31] Speaker 1: In two episodes and she's not as prominent, you know, yeah, yeah, that's.
[7:40] Speaker 3: Wait, there was another thing. Oh the.
[7:44] Speaker 1: I liked the part where Scott Hunter does his big
[7:50] Speaker 1: thing on the ice. I just was like, sad. I
[7:54] Speaker 1: was like, I don't think this could ever happen and
[7:56] Speaker 1: he would still like win these awards and stuff.
[7:58] Speaker 3: I was like, I just don't know if sports is
[8:00] Speaker 3: there yet, but.
[8:01] Speaker 2: Definitely not hockey because it's all the Russian Yeah you
[8:03] Speaker 2: know they hate gay people. Yeah, No, I mean I
[8:07] Speaker 2: don't very. I don't think any of the sports. I
[8:10] Speaker 2: don't think any of the story because that's what I
[8:11] Speaker 2: liked at the dinner scene too, where Shane's mom's like, well, no,
[8:16] Speaker 2: what what do you mean You're not going to come out?
[8:17] Speaker 3: That's sad, and they're like, we know, we know. Yeah.
[8:23] Speaker 1: But she also it's like, as much as she pretends
[8:25] Speaker 1: she knows the hockey or she does know about the
[8:27] Speaker 1: hockey world, she doesn't know what they know. You know,
[8:29] Speaker 1: she's not in locker room. She doesn't know how this
[8:31] Speaker 1: will be received, like you know.
[8:34] Speaker 2: I also loved the outfit of Ilia getting picked up
[8:38] Speaker 2: to go to the cottage. The black like tank top,
[8:41] Speaker 2: black sunglasses, backwards hat. I feel like that's my favorite
[8:44] Speaker 2: outfit of the show.
[8:46] Speaker 3: Oh.
[8:46] Speaker 1: I like the music a lot too. There's like a
[8:48] Speaker 1: Feist song that they play the whole song so good.
[8:51] Speaker 1: The montages are so good. I've never seen such good
[8:53] Speaker 1: TV montages either. I was like, I'm glad Feist is
[8:56] Speaker 1: getting back on the map a little bit. I loved
[8:58] Speaker 1: her back when she was like at her hu.
[9:00] Speaker 2: Well, the Jacob Tierney who wrote and directed it and
[9:03] Speaker 2: show ran it's like truly insane, but he was saying
[9:06] Speaker 2: he would bring up Feist and that the actors were like,
[9:09] Speaker 2: oh yeah, that was from Sesame Street and like that's
[9:11] Speaker 2: how they know about Fist. The one, two, three, four,
[9:13] Speaker 2: Oh my god, they're like so young. No, they're very young.
[9:19] Speaker 2: But already watched commercials.
[9:21] Speaker 3: They were all over. She was everywhere.
[9:23] Speaker 2: But I already watched Hudson on Shut Up Evan. I
[9:27] Speaker 2: was like one of the first few thousand yea podcast.
[9:32] Speaker 2: But I'm trying to think, love Tampa Bay, love the score,
[9:36] Speaker 2: love all the songs.
[9:38] Speaker 3: They're so hot. Yeah that's oh. I also like.
[9:42] Speaker 2: When Hayden goes, oh is Lily your buddy? And then
[9:47] Speaker 2: the other meme I like, But then after watching like
[9:51] Speaker 2: the Stylis thing, I've like his outfits have been bad
[9:55] Speaker 2: because like when Ilia opens the door in Boston, he
[9:58] Speaker 2: looks so hot and like and it's expensive pleasure wearing.
[10:00] Speaker 2: He's shirtless, and then Shane is wearing really tight pants
[10:04] Speaker 2: and a tight white shirt and like a cropped leather jacket.
[10:09] Speaker 3: It is a bad outfit. Have you watched the show
[10:12] Speaker 3: twice through? Are you being sarcastic?
[10:15] Speaker 4: No?
[10:15] Speaker 1: How many times have you watched it through? I've watched
[10:17] Speaker 1: it a lot? Oh okay, Well that's why.
[10:21] Speaker 3: I play card.
[10:22] Speaker 1: I'm like, I haven't clocked all the outfits and all
[10:24] Speaker 1: the Actually.
[10:27] Speaker 2: It's actually been really fucked up for me in my
[10:28] Speaker 2: life because I'm like running around and people have watched
[10:31] Speaker 2: it and even twice, and then I'll say the moments
[10:32] Speaker 2: I'm really into and they're like, I go, yeah, I
[10:35] Speaker 2: guess we're not like at the same at the level. Yeah,
[10:39] Speaker 2: Like because I'm like when he points to his glasses
[10:42] Speaker 2: when he's like put them back, and he's like, like,
[10:44] Speaker 2: I I have noticed.
[10:45] Speaker 3: Minor things for sure. Yeah, yeah the wardrobe.
[10:50] Speaker 2: But like I said last time, if you're gonna go
[10:53] Speaker 2: that deep into having all these connective tissues and clothes,
[10:56] Speaker 2: like every and all of this, and you're gonna put
[10:58] Speaker 2: all this thought into it.
[10:59] Speaker 3: I'll fucking look at it. I'll like figure it out,
[11:02] Speaker 3: I'll see it.
[11:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, they're doing it for you because well, No, what's
[11:08] Speaker 1: cool about this show is you can go into it
[11:10] Speaker 1: anyway you want.
[11:10] Speaker 3: You could be like I want to watch hot guys.
[11:12] Speaker 5: Fuck.
[11:13] Speaker 2: You could be like I want an emotional story. Oh,
[11:15] Speaker 2: I want to look at this cool acting. Oh I
[11:17] Speaker 2: love Canada and hockey. It could be Oh, I liked
[11:20] Speaker 2: the books, Like I think you can go as casual
[11:23] Speaker 2: or as deep as you want, you know what I mean.
[11:25] Speaker 3: And that's what's pretty fun about it as well. It's
[11:27] Speaker 3: really good.
[11:28] Speaker 1: And it's like the way that I used to love
[11:30] Speaker 1: Shit's Creek because it was just so like yeah, not
[11:34] Speaker 1: a lot of confrontation, just like party and shows and calm. Yeah,
[11:39] Speaker 1: and then it's just that with like also a lot
[11:41] Speaker 1: of horniness and sex.
[11:42] Speaker 2: So horny yeah yeah, because that's wait didn't we talk
[11:46] Speaker 2: Sorry if I said this last time. But when people
[11:47] Speaker 2: are like, oh, is it just smut, and I'm like,
[11:49] Speaker 2: you're acting like that's easy. Yeah, but you're acting like
[11:52] Speaker 2: anyone around the block could do it. Like that's what's
[11:54] Speaker 2: annoying me too, where it's like if it was just
[11:57] Speaker 2: like a sexual show that is also a pretty and
[12:01] Speaker 2: like impressive feet, I would say yeah.
[12:03] Speaker 3: Because it's sexy.
[12:05] Speaker 1: They're not showing a lot. We're in a porn addicted culture.
[12:08] Speaker 1: The lights are they're not showing, but they're showing a lot.
[12:11] Speaker 1: Because I did read like a thing where it like
[12:14] Speaker 1: it blacks out and then goes back to a sex
[12:16] Speaker 1: scene like five times in a row that sex scenes
[12:19] Speaker 1: usually black out and stop, you know what I mean,
[12:24] Speaker 1: Like they do keep going.
[12:25] Speaker 3: They're like, yeah, quite long, I would say, but.
[12:28] Speaker 2: All different, and I feel like all of them emotionally
[12:31] Speaker 2: are so different and all the acting, all of them.
[12:33] Speaker 3: It's like really incredible.
[12:36] Speaker 2: Yeah, and that they did it on a but I
[12:39] Speaker 2: just feel that you can watch it for an inspirational story,
[12:42] Speaker 2: you know.
[12:42] Speaker 3: It's like really all of it. No, I thought it
[12:46] Speaker 3: was great.
[12:47] Speaker 1: I read that Crave is making a lesbian a lesbian
[12:50] Speaker 1: baseball series or something on the heels of heated rivalry.
[12:56] Speaker 1: I I'm excited for the next season.
[13:00] Speaker 3: I think it's great. It's awesome.
[13:02] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so funny. You asked if I've watched it twice.
[13:04] Speaker 2: When I told you, I truly have not watched anything
[13:05] Speaker 2: else but SVU. Oh, I know, I guess I just Oh,
[13:09] Speaker 2: I've watched drag Race, but.
[13:10] Speaker 1: I thought I just watched it, and then you've been
[13:12] Speaker 1: going through a lot of the material like online.
[13:16] Speaker 3: I've been doing both.
[13:16] Speaker 2: But it'll just show me the scenes that I want
[13:18] Speaker 2: to see, because now I think Ohne knows me pretty well.
[13:23] Speaker 3: I am on drag Race.
[13:25] Speaker 1: I'm two episodes behind, and I know there's only been
[13:27] Speaker 1: three episodes because I took me forever to figure out
[13:29] Speaker 1: how to watch it.
[13:29] Speaker 3: But I feel nothing. I don't know what to tell you.
[13:31] Speaker 3: I bought it on Apple. You feel nothing. I liked
[13:34] Speaker 3: the first episode. I like it. I like all of it.
[13:36] Speaker 3: I don't know. Maybe it's just it's me. I don't know.
[13:38] Speaker 3: I think it might be.
[13:41] Speaker 2: And I don't like Beyonca's my least favorite pit Stop post,
[13:44] Speaker 2: so like I'm not watching the pit Stop and that's
[13:46] Speaker 2: taking me out of like really learning about people because
[13:49] Speaker 2: usually I watched the pit Stop and it penetrates my
[13:52] Speaker 2: brain more.
[13:53] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[13:53] Speaker 1: See, I'm like, I think it could be some of
[13:55] Speaker 1: the like oversaturation, because like I'm feeling that way a
[13:58] Speaker 1: little bit about Housewives. I'm like Ketch, I'm caught up
[14:01] Speaker 1: on ones that I like, I'm caught up on salt Lake,
[14:03] Speaker 1: but I'm a little bit like behind on salt Lake,
[14:06] Speaker 1: on Beverly Hills and Potomac. I'm kind of like, I
[14:08] Speaker 1: don't know, it just might be we're watching a little
[14:10] Speaker 1: bit too much of the same.
[14:12] Speaker 3: I don't know, drive Race.
[14:13] Speaker 2: It's like, sorry, I have another heated rivalry thing, but
[14:15] Speaker 2: it just left my mind.
[14:16] Speaker 3: But I had something to do with what you said earlier.
[14:18] Speaker 2: But like with the sexy scenes, they had full day
[14:21] Speaker 2: rehearsals the day before, so like everything was fully choreographed
[14:24] Speaker 2: before they would like shoot in front of everyone too.
[14:27] Speaker 2: And the fact that they had time to do all
[14:28] Speaker 2: that during such a fast shoot and learn to skate,
[14:30] Speaker 2: I'm just kind of confused how they did it all. Yeah,
[14:35] Speaker 2: I mean it's like wild and I think it was
[14:37] Speaker 2: like only two cameras or something.
[14:39] Speaker 3: Did they don't know how to skate at all?
[14:41] Speaker 5: No?
[14:42] Speaker 2: And in interviews they said that was the hardest part
[14:44] Speaker 2: because these people are so proficient, like they've been they've
[14:46] Speaker 2: been skating since three Like the language and the fucking
[14:49] Speaker 2: came easier to them, and their bodies were already looking good.
[14:52] Speaker 2: So I think like they just couldn't look like good ski.
[14:55] Speaker 2: They just couldn't fake the skating. Yeah so, but I
[15:00] Speaker 2: we also loved Ilia's speeches in the locker room. I
[15:02] Speaker 2: thought they were so fun. I liked the fucking Stanley
[15:05] Speaker 2: Cup speech.
[15:06] Speaker 1: Ok.
[15:07] Speaker 2: Good, that was good because there's like different elements to
[15:09] Speaker 2: all these characters and you get to.
[15:10] Speaker 3: See all the different parts. I like how they're planning.
[15:14] Speaker 1: They're plotting for him to go play for another Canadian team,
[15:17] Speaker 1: and it's like, it's cute.
[15:19] Speaker 3: I like it.
[15:19] Speaker 1: It's good stuff. Everybody watch Hated Rivalry as if you
[15:23] Speaker 1: need our promo to do that.
[15:25] Speaker 3: It's like the biggest show they've ever truly taken over
[15:28] Speaker 3: the world.
[15:29] Speaker 2: But also they're like, yeah, I can't wait to see
[15:32] Speaker 2: what they're gonna be up to. I mean fashion Week,
[15:35] Speaker 2: Milan Fashion Week. Yeah, all the images coming in from there.
[15:39] Speaker 3: Fun.
[15:39] Speaker 2: Oh they're there, huh yeah no, just one of them,
[15:42] Speaker 2: So one of them's there. And then the bad you know,
[15:45] Speaker 2: people just like lose their minds in fandoms and I
[15:48] Speaker 2: guess Connor's story and then the guy who plays Scott
[15:51] Speaker 2: Hunter took a flight together and then took a car
[15:54] Speaker 2: together after the airport, and then people were like saying,
[15:58] Speaker 2: we will kill you to this other act her, like
[16:01] Speaker 2: get away from him. Like people were being crazy like
[16:04] Speaker 2: death threats, like you had done follow like get to
[16:06] Speaker 2: get off the internet.
[16:07] Speaker 1: Wait the guy who play Scott Hunter, because they don't
[16:09] Speaker 1: want him to be friends with Connor's story, they're probably
[16:12] Speaker 1: like they're fucking like everyone's just kind of a little
[16:14] Speaker 1: too crazed, and of course it's going to go in
[16:16] Speaker 1: a negative direction in some people's brains and actions. Yeah,
[16:20] Speaker 1: him and Hudson are not together in real life, but
[16:22] Speaker 1: they want them to be.
[16:23] Speaker 2: I think there's a lot I think people just kind
[16:25] Speaker 2: of lose their minds. Yeah that's so Delulu. Yeah yeah,
[16:29] Speaker 2: but there's like fanfic and they've talked about it, but like,
[16:32] Speaker 2: uh of like Shane getting pregnant, there's like a lot
[16:35] Speaker 2: of that. People are crazy, People are weird, you know people.
[16:38] Speaker 1: I also sort of liked the the storyline with him
[16:42] Speaker 1: and the actress because it was like just them being
[16:47] Speaker 1: good pals and everybody was like, oh my god, the
[16:50] Speaker 1: way he looks at her, Oh my god.
[16:51] Speaker 3: Their comsty is palpable, and.
[16:52] Speaker 1: It's like he's gay, Like you know what, I mean,
[16:55] Speaker 1: like just the way that fandoms and the internet like
[16:57] Speaker 1: pop off and it's like you just like I can
[17:00] Speaker 1: just tell from this photo everything that's happening, and it's
[17:03] Speaker 1: like you actually can't.
[17:04] Speaker 2: Like, no, no one knows anything or you know what
[17:06] Speaker 2: a new thing is. As people talking about media training,
[17:11] Speaker 2: that's everyone's new favorite thing.
[17:13] Speaker 3: There's so media trained. They're not media trained.
[17:14] Speaker 2: They're they're actually are media trained, but they're making it
[17:17] Speaker 2: seem like they're not. I'm like, I don't think any
[17:20] Speaker 2: of you have a grasp on what's happening.
[17:22] Speaker 3: But I don't know. But I don't know what that
[17:23] Speaker 3: word is so in the world.
[17:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, But I've also been watching The Pit, which I'm
[17:30] Speaker 1: obsessed with, and that is so good.
[17:31] Speaker 3: Have you watched The Pit at all?
[17:33] Speaker 2: No?
[17:33] Speaker 3: And I'm not going to No, I'm so good. I
[17:36] Speaker 3: love it. Nope, that's not what I'm about to be doing. No,
[17:41] Speaker 3: that's good though, it's really really good. I don't want
[17:44] Speaker 3: gross in that way.
[17:46] Speaker 1: I close my eyes for all that, obviously, but there's
[17:49] Speaker 1: just there's really great storylines, there's great acting. It's like
[17:52] Speaker 1: it's intense, like you after you're done watching, you're like, damn,
[17:55] Speaker 1: like you know, it's definitely not throw it on in
[17:58] Speaker 1: the background type of thing.
[17:59] Speaker 3: But I'm really enjoying it. No, people love it.
[18:03] Speaker 2: And it was beating heated rivalry in the top ten,
[18:06] Speaker 2: you know, so it was like annoying. It was like
[18:08] Speaker 2: one and two. So I hope I did my part. Yeah,
[18:12] Speaker 2: I don't have anything else to say, Like, I don't
[18:13] Speaker 2: know what anyone else wants for me. I've I've ran
[18:16] Speaker 2: into some of you in the streets. I've been at
[18:18] Speaker 2: the cellar. I had a really fun Thursday night. I
[18:21] Speaker 2: went out, I partied, But I really have nothing else
[18:27] Speaker 2: to talk about. And when I've met up with friends,
[18:29] Speaker 2: I say, unless you want to talk about heated rivalry,
[18:31] Speaker 2: like you should come with something prepared.
[18:35] Speaker 3: I can't be caring something good going on in your life.
[18:40] Speaker 2: Well, just like I don't have anything. So if you
[18:42] Speaker 2: have something like you need to bring it to the table.
[18:45] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, No, I feel like I'm in a little
[18:48] Speaker 1: bit of a boring time right now.
[18:49] Speaker 3: I don't have that much.
[18:50] Speaker 1: I took my kids to a protest this past weekend
[18:52] Speaker 1: in LA They had a great time. My daughter Rosie,
[18:57] Speaker 1: from idea to execution, From concept to execution made her
[19:01] Speaker 1: own protest sign and my kids were loving chanting Ice
[19:05] Speaker 1: out of La and that was fun, and it was
[19:09] Speaker 1: Martin Luther King. A long weekend as usual with my
[19:12] Speaker 1: children an extra day, and I don't even know what
[19:15] Speaker 1: else I've been doing but that.
[19:19] Speaker 2: I've been walking around. I've been walking around with a
[19:21] Speaker 2: good attitude because I'm listening to the music from Heat
[19:24] Speaker 2: to Rivalry.
[19:25] Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm really like Strettinery. I gotta pop on
[19:28] Speaker 1: one of those playlists because I'm loving it.
[19:30] Speaker 2: The playlists are really good, and then the score is good,
[19:33] Speaker 2: and now they're all in my recently played with a
[19:35] Speaker 2: bunch of Taylor Swift and I'm really like elevating in
[19:38] Speaker 2: the streets.
[19:41] Speaker 3: I paulted into the ste I love it. Just soundtrack of.
[19:45] Speaker 1: Your life, I know, I miss I listened to so
[19:47] Speaker 1: much more music when I lived in New York.
[19:49] Speaker 3: I miss it.
[19:51] Speaker 1: But we do have kind of a big announcement for
[19:53] Speaker 1: today's episode. Today's episode is you know, we've been with
[19:58] Speaker 1: you guys for two hundred and sixty nine episodes, and
[20:01] Speaker 1: we are finally announcing that we are starting a Patreon.
[20:08] Speaker 1: We are going to have a that's messed up Patreon. Finally,
[20:12] Speaker 1: it is not for lack of wanting to do one.
[20:16] Speaker 1: We just had some obstacles and now it's happening. Starting
[20:21] Speaker 1: on February fifth, you can get episodes. There's going to
[20:26] Speaker 1: be two new episodes a month on our Patreon, and
[20:31] Speaker 1: there's a couple different tiers you can do.
[20:33] Speaker 3: One is video.
[20:34] Speaker 1: Some of you have asked to be able to watch us.
[20:37] Speaker 1: Now you'll be able to watch on the on the Patreon.
[20:41] Speaker 1: It's not going to be our regular episodes if that's
[20:43] Speaker 1: messed up, are going to continue as they are on
[20:46] Speaker 1: the audio podcast. And then this is going to be
[20:48] Speaker 1: sort of like bonus content. We're going to be interviewing
[20:52] Speaker 1: comedians and fun people, some experts about SVU related stuff.
[20:58] Speaker 1: We're going to watch docs, We're going to honestly, we're
[21:01] Speaker 1: gonna we can do whatever you guys want us to do. Also,
[21:04] Speaker 1: so if there's stuff like us to see, let us know.
[21:07] Speaker 1: But you can go to patreon dot com slash that's
[21:10] Speaker 1: messed up to subscribe to check out the different tears
[21:15] Speaker 1: and it's just a great way to support us.
[21:18] Speaker 3: We appreciate you guys so much. We love God.
[21:20] Speaker 2: We do like episodes of our favorite shows, but like
[21:26] Speaker 2: you have to watch one that I would like that
[21:27] Speaker 2: would get you into it and vice versa. Oh yeah,
[21:30] Speaker 2: I can watch your favorite episode of Evil.
[21:33] Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, you guys want, I'm gonna make you watch
[21:41] Speaker 1: the pit. No, but we're gonna we're gonna eventually like
[21:44] Speaker 1: add what we're We're open, so we might add like
[21:48] Speaker 1: a Patreon only chat for Tommy's that want to talk,
[21:53] Speaker 1: and we might do other kinds of like little online
[21:57] Speaker 1: events and things like that. You're gonna get act as
[22:00] Speaker 1: to our live shows first for some of the tears.
[22:02] Speaker 3: So definitely go check it out.
[22:04] Speaker 1: And we love you guys and appreciate you supporting us
[22:08] Speaker 1: through all of these years and now into our phase
[22:11] Speaker 1: of Patreon.
[22:12] Speaker 3: Lisa, any thoughts, No, I'm excited. I'm excited.
[22:15] Speaker 2: We'll have some good things and you can listen to
[22:18] Speaker 2: us more if you're obsessed.
[22:20] Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, should we get started with today's episode?
[22:23] Speaker 2: And I'm in Boston this week and I'm on the road, like,
[22:26] Speaker 2: come see me.
[22:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, Lisa will be at the Crystal Ballroom where we
[22:30] Speaker 1: did I had great shows a couple of years ago.
[22:32] Speaker 1: So if you came to that, come to this, uh,
[22:34] Speaker 1: and then go to that's messed up dot com for
[22:38] Speaker 1: links to the Patreon, the promo.
[22:42] Speaker 3: Promo codes, our merch.
[22:44] Speaker 1: That we're selling, and anything else, anything else, but also
[22:48] Speaker 1: Lisa's website that has all her tour dates.
[22:50] Speaker 3: On it is there.
[22:51] Speaker 2: Well, and I'm about to sign the contract for my
[22:52] Speaker 2: new website, so stay tuned for that.
[22:55] Speaker 1: Stay tuned, new website dropping. All right, let's get started.
[23:06] Speaker 1: All right, we're.
[23:07] Speaker 3: Doing spooked Oo Spooky.
[23:12] Speaker 2: Season eleven, episode six, Oh my god, and premiere October
[23:15] Speaker 2: twenty eighth, two thousand and nine. They must have done
[23:17] Speaker 2: that on purpose Halloween twenty eight.
[23:20] Speaker 1: Yeah, obviously they're talking about other things here.
[23:25] Speaker 3: Wait, a spook is like FBI spy, right, See.
[23:28] Speaker 1: People working in clandestine operations are called spooks according to Quorra,
[23:32] Speaker 1: which is full of garbage information.
[23:34] Speaker 3: But yeah, photo.
[23:36] Speaker 2: Ages with the dictionary that comes up are so funny.
[23:41] Speaker 3: These ghosts are so funny. Yeah, it is.
[23:45] Speaker 1: I think it's a racist term as well, that not
[23:48] Speaker 1: in this context. It was a racist term the clan
[23:52] Speaker 1: used against black people in the priest civil rights era,
[23:54] Speaker 1: which is hilarious coming from people who dressed are dressed
[23:57] Speaker 1: as ghosts to call other people spooks. But this episode
[24:01] Speaker 1: so Wild. I've seen it so many times and it's
[24:04] Speaker 1: always an adventure.
[24:06] Speaker 2: And wait, what it's like it plays like a Jason
[24:09] Speaker 2: Bourne movie, Like it really plays like a huge spy
[24:12] Speaker 2: type of Wait.
[24:13] Speaker 3: I watch Fatal Attraction for the first time. Oh you did, Yes,
[24:18] Speaker 3: I love it. I loved it. I loved last thing.
[24:22] Speaker 2: And I just watched The Knives Out, dead Man something
[24:25] Speaker 2: something new, and so we started.
[24:26] Speaker 1: Watching it and I fell asleep. I'm such a cuche.
[24:30] Speaker 3: I enjoyed it.
[24:31] Speaker 2: But Glenn closes in that I'm like, O, yeah, Glenn
[24:33] Speaker 2: Close is one of our best. So I think I'm
[24:34] Speaker 2: going to go and watch a few of our other hits.
[24:36] Speaker 3: Wait, by the way, I don't even think I've told
[24:38] Speaker 3: you that.
[24:38] Speaker 1: I started watching All's Fair as like a joke with
[24:40] Speaker 1: my friend, and now I've fully watched the entire thing
[24:42] Speaker 1: except for like the last two episodes, and I watched
[24:45] Speaker 1: like all of Love's Fair.
[24:46] Speaker 3: Al's Fair.
[24:47] Speaker 1: No, it's bad, but it's like fun to watch because
[24:51] Speaker 1: like they're dressed cool and like you kind of want
[24:54] Speaker 1: to know where the story goes. But it's bad.
[24:56] Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, we're in spooked. It's really good. There's
[25:00] Speaker 2: so many twists and turns. You really have to focus. Okay,
[25:03] Speaker 2: So we start off, we're like in a warehouse sort
[25:05] Speaker 2: of situation, and we hear someone say, like, Mary fucking
[25:08] Speaker 2: Christmas because they're thieves and they're gonna, you know, steal
[25:12] Speaker 2: from this. It's like where trucks load and they go, oh,
[25:17] Speaker 2: there's a padlock on that one.
[25:18] Speaker 3: It must be good.
[25:19] Speaker 2: One of the criminals does get nervous, though, the other
[25:22] Speaker 2: one's like, I don't give a fuck, let's get in there.
[25:24] Speaker 3: What's in their dead bodies? Done?
[25:25] Speaker 5: Done?
[25:26] Speaker 3: What show did you think you were watching?
[25:28] Speaker 2: The bodies are on top of each other, there's a
[25:29] Speaker 2: ton of blood, and then the men run away, and
[25:31] Speaker 2: then we hear Melinda's voice. She's with Benson and Stabler
[25:35] Speaker 2: entering the truck. And how did we find out? An
[25:38] Speaker 2: anonymous call? So I guess these dudes are thieves. But
[25:41] Speaker 2: they did call in the dead bodies, and I think
[25:44] Speaker 2: that's pretty awesome. So the bodies are freshly dead, not
[25:47] Speaker 2: even a couple of hours'.
[25:49] Speaker 1: Very cartoonish, those two guys at the beginning, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
[25:52] Speaker 1: very Beethoven.
[25:53] Speaker 2: He could be taking a few winks, like they're so weird, totally,
[25:58] Speaker 2: totally and so there's no ideas they're both Hispanic male
[26:04] Speaker 2: is late teens early twenties, the females in her twenties,
[26:07] Speaker 2: and both their throats are slit and both are positive
[26:10] Speaker 2: for fluids. But Melinda says they weren't murdered on top
[26:14] Speaker 2: of each other. They were placed like that after the slashing.
[26:18] Speaker 2: And also her breasts are mutilated after she died. And
[26:22] Speaker 2: then they turn on brighter lights and we can see
[26:24] Speaker 2: behind the bodies. Melinda goes, that's weird and there's a
[26:28] Speaker 2: string and on it is hung up underwear in the
[26:30] Speaker 2: back of the truck and like a bra. And she's like,
[26:34] Speaker 2: you know, he's waving his flag right in our face,
[26:37] Speaker 2: hanging like undergarments like that.
[26:39] Speaker 3: And we know from future episodes this is used a.
[26:41] Speaker 1: Lot, like as a you know, like a game, like
[26:45] Speaker 1: those three parts series one with the rape trees.
[26:50] Speaker 2: Yes, there's the rape tree actually one. Yeah yeah, yeah,
[26:53] Speaker 2: but that one's great. This is just you know one,
[26:55] Speaker 2: but it's uh there, you know, it's a calling card.
[26:58] Speaker 3: It's an allusion to it. Yeah, And now we go.
[27:00] Speaker 2: Straight to the credits, and now the bodies are in
[27:04] Speaker 2: the morgue, no hits on their prints, but we're waiting
[27:06] Speaker 2: on more DNA. There were there were hair found, but
[27:10] Speaker 2: right now it's just like each other's. But they're going
[27:12] Speaker 2: to keep searching. And she has defensive wounds on both
[27:15] Speaker 2: of her arms. She fought hard, Melinda says, And she's
[27:19] Speaker 2: taking photos of the body, but there's nothing under her fingernails,
[27:22] Speaker 2: and so we're guessing like someone wore a condom, something
[27:26] Speaker 2: was happening, and like the person cleaned up, like there's
[27:28] Speaker 2: no evidence anywhere. Melinda also has like tendril like updous
[27:33] Speaker 2: with little tendrils falling and I love it. But again,
[27:36] Speaker 2: back back from from updus to mutilated breast, slit throats
[27:41] Speaker 2: and hanging lingerie. Craigan and Munch are doing a walk
[27:43] Speaker 2: and talk and it sounds like, in Cragan's words, this
[27:47] Speaker 2: isn't a maiden voyage. Okay, that's what he says, Like this,
[27:50] Speaker 2: whoever did this has done this before. But Munch is like,
[27:53] Speaker 2: well in viscap there is nothing that even comes close
[27:55] Speaker 2: to anything like this, So we have to start with
[27:57] Speaker 2: who owns the truck. But there are five VIN numbers
[28:01] Speaker 2: from all different parts, so criminal type of truck maybe.
[28:04] Speaker 3: Also it's like who fucking knows.
[28:07] Speaker 2: So they're still even working to find out who owns
[28:09] Speaker 2: the truck bed. And then there's a man replacing all
[28:12] Speaker 2: the phones, and Munch's like updating the phone new green tech.
[28:15] Speaker 2: A fuck, I just learned how to use the old one.
[28:20] Speaker 3: Oh my god. Wait dude, I'm just looking at this.
[28:21] Speaker 2: So you know how Julia got me a Polly pocket
[28:24] Speaker 2: for my birthday?
[28:25] Speaker 1: Maybe you don't remember. It was just important to me.
[28:26] Speaker 1: It's like a Hollywood star.
[28:28] Speaker 2: While I was cleaning my apartment, I found an old
[28:30] Speaker 2: card she made me of that Polly pocket fully drown out.
[28:34] Speaker 1: Cool.
[28:35] Speaker 2: So like I she like manifested it years. Yere kind
[28:39] Speaker 2: of great. Crazy, I want to get in such good condition. Anyways,
[28:42] Speaker 2: so man's replacing the phones. He's upset. Craigan's like, well,
[28:46] Speaker 2: you can use the old one in the media room
[28:48] Speaker 2: and leads him over there.
[28:50] Speaker 3: So they keep talking about the case.
[28:52] Speaker 2: Nobody is in missing persons, like match these victims. The
[28:55] Speaker 2: nine to one one was a payphone on the corner.
[28:57] Speaker 2: He guesses, it's the people that were trying to break
[28:59] Speaker 2: you know, brk in. But there's no usable prints. Craigan goes, fuck,
[29:02] Speaker 2: so we just have to wait till someone else gets butchered.
[29:05] Speaker 2: Cuts to Melinda, so they're doing like a back and forth,
[29:07] Speaker 2: and she goes, they weren't butchered. It was a thin
[29:10] Speaker 2: curved blade, a scalpel maybe, and then the breast implants
[29:15] Speaker 2: have been taken out, and then it cuts back to
[29:17] Speaker 2: Munch and Kragan and it's like, like, damn trophies, but no,
[29:22] Speaker 2: they assume it's so they couldn't id her because if
[29:24] Speaker 2: she has faked its, they could like find out who
[29:26] Speaker 2: she is. So this is like they don't want anyone
[29:29] Speaker 2: to find these motherfuckers. So Melinda did say that the
[29:32] Speaker 2: surgery was quite fresh, because the surgery scars seem fresh,
[29:36] Speaker 2: and they're gonna send photos of the tits to all
[29:38] Speaker 2: the plastic surgeons and see if there's anything of her face.
[29:41] Speaker 1: But yeah, oh it's not even written.
[29:50] Speaker 2: It's not even written like that in my note. I
[29:51] Speaker 2: don't know why it's over face Moorg face. Yeah.
[30:01] Speaker 3: The thing that's.
[30:01] Speaker 2: Crazy is their Morg photos never look like they're real photos.
[30:05] Speaker 2: It is crazy, like I don't. They also will show
[30:09] Speaker 2: a child. They'll like go to a school and be
[30:11] Speaker 2: like do you know this Morg photo?
[30:12] Speaker 1: And it's like I don't think you can do that. Yeah,
[30:15] Speaker 1: it's very traumatizing.
[30:18] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[30:18] Speaker 2: So okay, So the man had a tattoo on his
[30:21] Speaker 2: right arm with the initials l Z and Ala Santa Muerte,
[30:27] Speaker 2: the death bride, and she's the patron saint to Mexican
[30:29] Speaker 2: drug dealers. So Craigan's like, okay, let's send this to
[30:33] Speaker 2: the FEDS. Maybe they're not from here and they're from
[30:35] Speaker 2: out of the country. And then Melinda in the you know,
[30:38] Speaker 2: cut back and forth, says they're American. She thinks they're
[30:40] Speaker 2: American because or at least their dental work was done
[30:43] Speaker 2: in the us SO US style dental work. And then
[30:47] Speaker 2: CSU also found a bunch of brown fibers in the
[30:49] Speaker 2: truck mixed with the blood, So now they have to
[30:51] Speaker 2: figure out what these brown fibers are. And Munch is
[30:54] Speaker 2: now leading the all team meeting. So they're polyester fibers
[30:58] Speaker 2: and maybe that's like what the truck was hauling before
[31:01] Speaker 2: the murder. They're not really sure. And then the phone
[31:04] Speaker 2: tech guy walks by a Munch is like, just please
[31:07] Speaker 2: let me keep my own phone, please, and the dude's like, no,
[31:12] Speaker 2: I won't work on the new system. Sorry, bro, so
[31:14] Speaker 2: then Craigan turns around and he's like, I've been begging
[31:17] Speaker 2: for new phones since Clinton was president. Get over it, Munch.
[31:21] Speaker 2: So I guess you know phones weren't in the budget.
[31:23] Speaker 2: This is a great day for Craigan with these new phones.
[31:26] Speaker 2: He's been dying for it. And the man gives Munch
[31:30] Speaker 2: a guide to the phone, and then a fax comes
[31:32] Speaker 2: in right at that moment. The truck is owned by
[31:35] Speaker 2: a rental company in the Bronx, so that's where we go.
[31:38] Speaker 2: It was supposed to be returned last night, but we
[31:40] Speaker 2: have the ID and it's Carlos Martinez from Laredo, Texas
[31:44] Speaker 2: and the birthday is ninety one. So the stabler's like,
[31:47] Speaker 2: you rented a card to a nineteen year old and
[31:48] Speaker 2: the photo like the photo of the John Doe, and
[31:50] Speaker 2: the morgue matches this boy so nineteen. And the guy goes,
[31:55] Speaker 2: I don't give a fuck. He gave me collateral and
[31:57] Speaker 2: it's a Mercedes and the registration did the license and
[32:01] Speaker 2: he lets them check it out and he's like, oh,
[32:03] Speaker 2: I'm gonna look so good in this Mercedes. A sunglass
[32:05] Speaker 2: is wearing. Benson is like, baby, the car's coming with us.
[32:08] Speaker 2: This is a murder investigation. In the car, Stabler finds
[32:13] Speaker 2: the last place searched on the GPS was a house
[32:16] Speaker 2: in South Ozone Park, So off to Queen's we go
[32:19] Speaker 2: and it's a dump and so it's like nice cars,
[32:22] Speaker 2: bad apartment that means drugs. And a kid comes out
[32:24] Speaker 2: and tries to run and yells at them to like, yeah,
[32:28] Speaker 2: let go of me. And he lives across the street
[32:30] Speaker 2: and he was just rummaging in the house to see
[32:31] Speaker 2: if they left anything good because whoever was here moved
[32:34] Speaker 2: out last night in a truck. Okay, clues or building.
[32:39] Speaker 2: He shows a go oh, yeah, he doesn't here. He
[32:41] Speaker 2: shows the child a Moorg photo and the little boy like.
[32:46] Speaker 1: That's crazy, crazy, he's crazy to show a young child
[32:50] Speaker 1: on Org photo.
[32:51] Speaker 3: Yeah, and so yeah, you would.
[32:54] Speaker 2: Get like someone to draw the face I feel, and
[32:56] Speaker 2: then you could show a child. But he does identify
[33:00] Speaker 2: the dead body as the man who drove and then
[33:02] Speaker 2: he goes she bossed him around, So there was a woman,
[33:05] Speaker 2: she was bossy, and they were in this home for
[33:08] Speaker 2: a week And in the backyard we see a bunch
[33:10] Speaker 2: of almost burned things, but the rain probably put out
[33:13] Speaker 2: the fire. So they start digging in the fire garbage can,
[33:16] Speaker 2: they find a bunch of scales, glass sene bags and
[33:18] Speaker 2: lots of drugs. So and then the Jane Doe, her
[33:22] Speaker 2: license is burned in the can and it's so, what's
[33:25] Speaker 2: going on here? But her name is Ramona Rodriguez and
[33:28] Speaker 2: the address is East sixty seventh Street. So another person
[33:32] Speaker 2: opens the door that's alive, and the woman there goes, oh, yeah,
[33:35] Speaker 2: Ramona lives here. Did something happen? And they let this
[33:38] Speaker 2: person know that she was murdered. The woman seems stunned.
[33:41] Speaker 2: It's her roommate. We find out they barely knew each other.
[33:44] Speaker 2: It was like a Craigslist situation. But Benson is annoyed
[33:49] Speaker 2: by this. She goes, you barely know her your roommates
[33:51] Speaker 2: Like she doesn't know that there's different types of roommates,
[33:54] Speaker 2: Like it's so strange. But she goes, listen, I rented
[33:58] Speaker 2: my second room. She's barely over here. She paid six
[34:01] Speaker 2: months cash in advance, and like, please, I don't want
[34:02] Speaker 2: my landlord to know that I'm renting out the room.
[34:05] Speaker 2: They go in there, The room's hardly lived in, The
[34:07] Speaker 2: passport's there.
[34:08] Speaker 3: Still.
[34:09] Speaker 2: She does travel a lot, tons of stamps Mexico Columbia,
[34:12] Speaker 2: JFK Mexico, Columbia, So she probably was a mule. And
[34:15] Speaker 2: then it's like, oh, the breast implants were filled with drugs,
[34:18] Speaker 2: I bet.
[34:19] Speaker 3: And then it's like.
[34:19] Speaker 2: How much heroin is? Like how much heroin do you
[34:22] Speaker 2: need to get high? How expensive is heroin? Like how
[34:24] Speaker 2: is one breast implant worth of heroin enough to murder
[34:28] Speaker 2: a person?
[34:30] Speaker 3: Yeah? I think that's what they're talking about.
[34:32] Speaker 1: Later they're like the breast like that gets brought up later,
[34:36] Speaker 1: like if you're gonna bring in mass, I mean, have
[34:39] Speaker 1: you seen the movie Traffic where they're like melting down,
[34:42] Speaker 1: Like huge pieces of machinery are made out of cocaine,
[34:46] Speaker 1: you know what I mean?
[34:46] Speaker 3: Like you can't like you're you're moving.
[34:49] Speaker 1: Huge amounts, not like a breast implant's worth no matter
[34:52] Speaker 1: how big a cup size you're going up, that's really
[34:54] Speaker 1: not worth it.
[34:56] Speaker 2: And I don't you know what I mean? Yeah, it's
[34:57] Speaker 2: not like it's alligator's Yeah. What were those little eggs
[35:00] Speaker 2: in the Wildlife episode? Oh like she had eggs under
[35:04] Speaker 2: her yeah, wrapped around her a little container. Yes, like
[35:09] Speaker 2: they find water bottles, they're not gonna find eggs wrapped
[35:11] Speaker 2: around your body like I do. Like, it's so crazy.
[35:15] Speaker 2: That episode goes down in history. Okay, so whatever she must. Okay,
[35:23] Speaker 2: So we have information on the fibers the fire. The
[35:25] Speaker 2: brown fibers from the truck are actually a teddy bear
[35:28] Speaker 2: and there's a teddy bear on the bed, so that
[35:30] Speaker 2: they put it all together. They're like the fiber teddy
[35:33] Speaker 2: bears on the bed. It's a brown sheep, bad fiber bear.
[35:36] Speaker 2: And so they're thinking the breasts are filled with drugs
[35:39] Speaker 2: and there's a truck a full of bears filled with drugs.
[35:41] Speaker 3: What's going on?
[35:42] Speaker 2: And then the roommate runs in and she's like, oh
[35:44] Speaker 2: my god, someone's trying to get in my front door.
[35:46] Speaker 2: Sailor tells her to lie down in the tub and
[35:47] Speaker 2: stay there, and the detectives go full guns up and
[35:50] Speaker 2: wait for the door to open. As the handle spins
[35:52] Speaker 2: and it's Special Agent Dean Porter with the FBI. Okay,
[35:57] Speaker 2: we're bringing Sexy back. Everyone is confused, used, and obviously
[36:01] Speaker 2: this is where the commercial happens.
[36:02] Speaker 3: It goes to black. This is a big deal. And
[36:04] Speaker 3: if you don't remember Dean.
[36:05] Speaker 2: Porter, he is there during the persephone Underclever animal activism,
[36:14] Speaker 2: vegan era. So they meet in the Pacific Northwest, and
[36:18] Speaker 2: I would say he's sexy. I feel like they've always
[36:20] Speaker 2: had sexual attension. He's been in like five episodes, and
[36:25] Speaker 2: I feel like they have sexual attension. But he is
[36:29] Speaker 2: like he's always combative with her, Like she remember when
[36:32] Speaker 2: they first meet and they're trying to like talk to
[36:33] Speaker 2: a victim and she just goes high little girl and
[36:36] Speaker 2: she says nothing, and he's like, thought, you were good
[36:38] Speaker 2: with victims, bitch, Like he has do.
[36:40] Speaker 3: You remember this?
[36:41] Speaker 2: Or might being crazy? And then it's like no, She'll
[36:44] Speaker 2: get to the bottom of it. Like but so he's
[36:47] Speaker 2: antagonistic but sexy at the end of the day, cares
[36:50] Speaker 2: about Benson. But they do. They are supposed to hate
[36:53] Speaker 2: the FBI. Are they gonna work together? There is a
[36:55] Speaker 2: lot to it, but it's hard to really see clearly
[36:58] Speaker 2: because he is hot.
[37:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you've summed it up. Thank you. I appreciate that.
[37:05] Speaker 2: Okay, So classic Porter attitude. What the hell are you
[37:10] Speaker 2: guys doing here? And it's like solving two murders? What
[37:14] Speaker 2: are you doing here? He goes, well that Teddy Bear
[37:16] Speaker 2: was once filled with Mexican black to our heroine and
[37:19] Speaker 2: he says that his informant told him that Carlos Martinez
[37:23] Speaker 2: was holed up in that apartment and they go, well, babe,
[37:25] Speaker 2: your informant is dead, and they show the woman's passport.
[37:29] Speaker 3: He doesn't.
[37:29] Speaker 2: He says he doesn't know the woman in the passport,
[37:31] Speaker 2: so that's strange. But Martinez was about to make his
[37:34] Speaker 2: top oneted FBI list, so they're like looking for him.
[37:38] Speaker 2: She's supposed to be an informant and they're like, what
[37:41] Speaker 2: is he on the list for? And then at the
[37:43] Speaker 2: Priestcinct they start watching videos and it's Ramona and Carlos
[37:46] Speaker 2: third a dance party. It has nothing to do with
[37:48] Speaker 2: the information. We're just watching them dance, but and they're
[37:51] Speaker 2: like flirting and having fun. But he says that he's
[37:53] Speaker 2: the best hit man ever, and Craigan is shocked that, like,
[37:56] Speaker 2: there's an eighteen year old professional hit man.
[37:59] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[38:00] Speaker 2: So then he explains the tattoo that this guy has
[38:02] Speaker 2: l Z and that the tattoo stands for low Zettas
[38:06] Speaker 2: los zetas.
[38:06] Speaker 3: Yeah, the lo setus.
[38:08] Speaker 1: That's like that's a bunch of people are like, oh,
[38:11] Speaker 1: this episode's based on that, and it's like, not really
[38:13] Speaker 1: there's just this reference. They were a huge cartel around
[38:16] Speaker 1: this time that this episode came out, but like by
[38:19] Speaker 1: twenty fifteen they had sort of honestly splintered off into
[38:23] Speaker 1: all these factions like of other cartels, smaller cartels. So
[38:28] Speaker 1: at this time Lo Satas was an actual really big cartel,
[38:31] Speaker 1: but they're not anymore today.
[38:33] Speaker 2: Oh and it stands for assassination wing, So pretty cool
[38:38] Speaker 2: they're gonna be in a wing.
[38:39] Speaker 3: It might as well be that. I don't know. It's
[38:41] Speaker 3: like it just sucks.
[38:42] Speaker 2: It's like if they'll kill every like you're never safe,
[38:44] Speaker 2: but I guess these people don't.
[38:46] Speaker 3: They're too fucked to care about safety. I don't know.
[38:49] Speaker 1: It's just like yeah, like they're they're compared to like Sinaloa,
[38:52] Speaker 1: like super super violent, like we'll do fucked up shit
[38:56] Speaker 1: like beheadings, like really you know, rape trees, et cetera.
[38:59] Speaker 3: Like they're really not.
[39:00] Speaker 2: Well because in the usual Suspects, you know, at the end,
[39:02] Speaker 2: like that old guy like does pick up Kevin Spacey
[39:04] Speaker 2: and they like drive off together. But it's like why
[39:06] Speaker 2: do they have that trust? Like does he really know
[39:08] Speaker 2: that he won't kill him? Like how do you trust
[39:10] Speaker 2: these murderers when you're a murderer and they're all murdering,
[39:13] Speaker 2: or you just don't expect that from anybody.
[39:17] Speaker 3: I don't know. I feel like I was ready to
[39:19] Speaker 3: die all day. I don't know.
[39:22] Speaker 1: I think you see that all the time. They do
[39:24] Speaker 1: different things to prove their loyalty, killing other people. You know,
[39:28] Speaker 1: you have secrets on each other.
[39:29] Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, you know, we live a different life.
[39:34] Speaker 2: So, oh god, he has twenty two confirmed kills in
[39:40] Speaker 2: Mexico and four in the US. And sailors are okay,
[39:44] Speaker 2: But why is he dumb enough to like make sexy
[39:46] Speaker 2: dancing videos on the internet? And Porter goes, I mean,
[39:49] Speaker 2: this is also the tip of the iceberg. The cartel
[39:51] Speaker 2: plucks them as young as thirteen. They go to Texas
[39:54] Speaker 2: border towns like Laredo, and once they're sucked in, they
[39:57] Speaker 2: have to do whatever they're told. So who did the
[39:59] Speaker 2: car tell send Carlos to kill them? He says nobody.
[40:03] Speaker 2: He was here to protect Ramona and her drug bears
[40:06] Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, so we're the drug bears from
[40:08] Speaker 2: a competitor. And then he got caught like with his
[40:11] Speaker 2: pants down while they stopped to have sex.
[40:13] Speaker 3: What is happening.
[40:15] Speaker 2: Sailor's like, you're pulling this all out of your ass
[40:17] Speaker 2: based on what and he points to the rape tree,
[40:19] Speaker 2: and he's like, the rape tree.
[40:20] Speaker 3: That's their thing.
[40:21] Speaker 2: The coyotes who smuggle Mexican illegals, they gang rape the
[40:25] Speaker 2: women and hang the women's panties on trees. That's how
[40:28] Speaker 2: he talked about it. I would never call people illegal
[40:31] Speaker 2: or illegal. Sablor goes, oh, so rape isn't even the motivation.
[40:35] Speaker 2: He goes, No, it's to mark their conquest on like
[40:38] Speaker 2: a cartel, the cartel's turf. And Craigan goes, okay, and
[40:42] Speaker 2: these murders were on our turf, so let's not start
[40:44] Speaker 2: a turf war of our own now, and he says,
[40:47] Speaker 2: no problem. You take the bodies, we take the dope,
[40:50] Speaker 2: and he leaves, and Craigan starts to give him their
[40:52] Speaker 2: next steps, but Benson needs a second and goes off
[40:54] Speaker 2: to catch Porter at the elevator. He's smiling big. He's
[40:57] Speaker 2: happy to see her. Been a while, Olivia, Yuh, yes,
[41:01] Speaker 2: it has you know. I love the way he's smiling
[41:04] Speaker 2: at her. She is beautiful. I get it. He enters
[41:06] Speaker 2: the elevator and goes, you have my number and then
[41:08] Speaker 2: you hear off screens. Sailor goes, yeah, we all do.
[41:11] Speaker 1: And I like stable, her is cock flocking and every
[41:15] Speaker 1: chance he gets the episode, every chance he fucking gets.
[41:20] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[41:20] Speaker 2: Like to him, it's like, what's worse, IAB or the FBI,
[41:23] Speaker 2: Like I don't know. Benson's like, come on, give him
[41:26] Speaker 2: a break, like, bitch, I'm flirting. Fuck And they do
[41:30] Speaker 2: a mini walk and talk and they need a warrant
[41:32] Speaker 2: to go through a Ramona's place, So they're at Terry
[41:34] Speaker 2: Bates apartment, Ramona's roomy, and they tell her they need
[41:37] Speaker 2: her to be safe and she should go stay with someone.
[41:39] Speaker 2: So she's like, okay, fuck, I'll pack a bag. Benson
[41:42] Speaker 2: is with the tech guy who's going through her radio
[41:44] Speaker 2: and goes, well, she must have been homesick because this
[41:47] Speaker 2: radio is and it's it doesn't play top forty. It's
[41:49] Speaker 2: a short wave receiver. It picks up stations from all
[41:52] Speaker 2: over the world on a clear night. So someone messed
[41:56] Speaker 2: with the bass boards. Also, and what's in there? A
[41:58] Speaker 2: Kedo safe to pause a box. So now we're off
[42:01] Speaker 2: to the bank. They open it up and asked the
[42:03] Speaker 2: banker when was the last time someone came to open it,
[42:06] Speaker 2: she says, two weeks ago, and in this box there's
[42:09] Speaker 2: still a plane ticket for Ramona, a one way ticket
[42:13] Speaker 2: six pm tonight out of the country. So did you
[42:16] Speaker 2: have to go to the airport to buy the physical
[42:19] Speaker 2: airplane tickets back in the day.
[42:21] Speaker 1: No, you could get them from a travel agent. Oh okay,
[42:25] Speaker 1: and then yeah, a print them there.
[42:27] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[42:29] Speaker 1: I truly don't know, Like I don't know how my
[42:31] Speaker 1: mom used to buy, you know, eight tickets for us
[42:34] Speaker 1: to go somewhere, not that we ever really flew all
[42:36] Speaker 1: eight of us as a family, but you know what
[42:37] Speaker 1: I mean, Like, I don't know. I just remember always
[42:40] Speaker 1: having those paper tickets, but she just would have them.
[42:43] Speaker 3: Like, I don't know where you would go.
[42:46] Speaker 1: A travel agency or yeah, because there's not like there
[42:50] Speaker 1: was like a twa office somewhere that you just walk
[42:52] Speaker 1: into and get tickets. Maybe there was a different time.
[42:56] Speaker 1: I don't think there was. I think he was like you,
[42:58] Speaker 1: that's what you had to go. That's why travel agent
[43:00] Speaker 1: was like a job, because you like had to go to.
[43:02] Speaker 2: A travel agent to get tickets for stuff. I feel
[43:04] Speaker 2: that it is a job again. I feel like luxury
[43:06] Speaker 2: travel agents like picking things is kind of back.
[43:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, because now it's less like getting the flights and
[43:13] Speaker 1: more like the itinerary, the reservations for like food and excursions.
[43:18] Speaker 3: Like what you're gonna do? Yeah?
[43:21] Speaker 1: Do you follow that girl who clearly like stages the
[43:23] Speaker 1: phone calls that she's really she's.
[43:26] Speaker 2: Little, because I I'm trying to grasp reality, which is
[43:30] Speaker 2: already hard because of heated rivalry, So like I just
[43:34] Speaker 2: can't have phone.
[43:35] Speaker 3: I can't, I can't. I need it.
[43:37] Speaker 1: Crazy because it's like she re enacts some of these
[43:39] Speaker 1: and some of the calls are like obviously, like I
[43:41] Speaker 1: need you to get me formula one, VIP whatever, but
[43:44] Speaker 1: some of them are like, hey, so I'm in the
[43:46] Speaker 1: Caribbean and it's raining, and you did not say that
[43:48] Speaker 1: was going to happen, so can you like handle that?
[43:51] Speaker 3: Like they want you to change the weather.
[43:53] Speaker 2: And I believe people are this crazy and are mad
[43:56] Speaker 2: because I was a salon receptionist and our waxer's parent
[43:59] Speaker 2: died and the woman was furious that who was gonna
[44:02] Speaker 2: like wax her pussy?
[44:03] Speaker 3: And I was like, I mean, this.
[44:05] Speaker 2: Woman's dad is dead, like you might you must have
[44:08] Speaker 2: a plan, b I like your pussy hare is not
[44:11] Speaker 2: our problem. So I remember hearing that in my early
[44:14] Speaker 2: twenties and really knowing, like understanding, there's no depths to
[44:17] Speaker 2: selfishness out here.
[44:19] Speaker 3: Yeah, out streets.
[44:21] Speaker 2: Out streets are like you know, Miranda Priestley, I don't
[44:25] Speaker 2: care if it's raining, it's.
[44:27] Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know the manuscript. Oh yeah, I just saw.
[44:32] Speaker 3: I just saw.
[44:34] Speaker 2: I just saw one tweet that was like, why didn't
[44:36] Speaker 2: anyone tell Matt like did Madame Tousseaud not have any friends?
[44:39] Speaker 2: To be like, girl, this is kind of weird, like
[44:42] Speaker 2: why are you doing this? Well, sure it's good, but
[44:48] Speaker 2: why Madams had no friends?
[44:54] Speaker 3: Just wax?
[44:56] Speaker 1: She was like, she was like our guy in uh
[44:58] Speaker 1: the they'd already disappeared episode. That's her work, except she
[45:01] Speaker 1: was just making them out of wax and not creating
[45:03] Speaker 1: mummies out of people that he killed.
[45:05] Speaker 3: Anyway.
[45:05] Speaker 2: My god, I was talking to someone I don't know where,
[45:08] Speaker 2: who's wedding, Like I don't know when or where anymore
[45:11] Speaker 2: of anything, but I was talking and I was like,
[45:14] Speaker 2: oh my god, yeah, remember the episode with the mummification
[45:17] Speaker 2: And it was like, what what what is happening? I'm like, yeah,
[45:22] Speaker 2: I mean, unfortunately, that's that's what's happening with? Okay, so
[45:28] Speaker 2: plane ticket, plane ticket, plane ticket, But I just want
[45:31] Speaker 2: often because the thing is, I loved America's funniest I
[45:33] Speaker 2: like watching heartwarming videos. I like watching funny stuff. I
[45:36] Speaker 2: like watching cool moments caught on camera. I just hate
[45:42] Speaker 2: feeling that it's stage, you're not real and not believing
[45:46] Speaker 2: what I'm seeing, Like I don't.
[45:48] Speaker 3: I don't like the's making me.
[45:50] Speaker 2: Feel, not even in that way, but just like the
[45:52] Speaker 2: abuse that we know that there's parents and the kid creators,
[45:55] Speaker 2: and like what happened to that kitten after Christmas? Did
[45:58] Speaker 2: you make the kid open that box a few times?
[46:00] Speaker 2: Like I just don't remember kids crying from joy back
[46:03] Speaker 2: in the day all the time. Yeah yeah, or maybe
[46:07] Speaker 2: we just didn't see it. It's just like or like
[46:10] Speaker 2: husbands and wives having these convos, and because of our
[46:13] Speaker 2: last episode of like with Rorshack, like what's happening when
[46:17] Speaker 2: the cameras aren't there? What is not happening?
[46:20] Speaker 3: It's real?
[46:22] Speaker 2: Nothing is real, But like I I'm so involved, I'm
[46:25] Speaker 2: so in it, I'm so addicted, I'm so a part
[46:28] Speaker 2: of it, and I want out.
[46:29] Speaker 3: I want out. I want a plane ticket out, all right.
[46:33] Speaker 1: So you're gonna leave it in.
[46:34] Speaker 3: A safe deposit box.
[46:35] Speaker 1: It is like kind of wild that there's just this
[46:38] Speaker 1: ticket in a safe deposit box. It doesn't I don't
[46:41] Speaker 1: really get why. Well, because she's dead, she's probably supposed
[46:44] Speaker 1: to pick it.
[46:44] Speaker 3: Up and then couldn't.
[46:45] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, why wouldn't his be in there? You're wondering
[46:49] Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, I guess I guess that might. That
[46:51] Speaker 1: must be like, yeah, how they're giving you things to
[46:53] Speaker 1: each other? You're right, yeahh Like I don't know why
[46:55] Speaker 1: she just have it, but yeah.
[46:57] Speaker 2: Sols Okay, So it's this plane tickets the only thing
[47:00] Speaker 2: in their sailers like, we're gonna give you a voucher
[47:02] Speaker 2: and take this since the owner of the box is dead,
[47:04] Speaker 2: and she goes they're both dead, and the cops are like, well,
[47:06] Speaker 2: who's who's both? And so they show the photo the
[47:09] Speaker 2: dead guy and she goes, not him. It was a
[47:11] Speaker 2: guy named Juan Pablo, which is like a you know,
[47:14] Speaker 2: John Smith and CSU also got prints, so if this
[47:17] Speaker 2: Juan is in the system, we can get him.
[47:20] Speaker 3: But there is something else. Benson notices.
[47:22] Speaker 2: The flight is like my m I A two five
[47:25] Speaker 2: six JFK three one six, So Munch and Craigan are
[47:27] Speaker 2: on the new phone system. I'm trying to check the
[47:29] Speaker 2: flight info and communicate with Benson and Stabler and they're
[47:32] Speaker 2: headed to JFK. So they're all at baggage claim and
[47:36] Speaker 2: there's lots of oh and it's Mexico City, not Miami
[47:39] Speaker 2: the m.
[47:40] Speaker 3: I AM, which I didn't realize.
[47:42] Speaker 2: So then lots of cardboard boxes are coming down, maybe
[47:44] Speaker 2: some like maybe as all the Teddy bears and Hispanic
[47:47] Speaker 2: man is getting the boxes, so a lot is a
[47:49] Speaker 2: lot is happening fast. So the boxes are moving. Craigen
[47:53] Speaker 2: calls they have a hit off the princes off the
[47:55] Speaker 2: deposit box. It's someone named Menuel Rojas and he's a
[47:58] Speaker 2: lieutenant in the Gulf Cartel. And Bunch texts the photo
[48:03] Speaker 2: to Stabler and the does flip phone and he gets it,
[48:06] Speaker 2: but it's two other guys are with the boxes and like,
[48:09] Speaker 2: we don't see Rojas. And then Dean Porter's in a
[48:12] Speaker 2: car and he has a walkie and he's like, he
[48:15] Speaker 2: says affirmative. I don't know what's happening. So then all
[48:19] Speaker 2: units stand by. Shipman's about to roll and everyone gets
[48:22] Speaker 2: it together to go chase this car.
[48:24] Speaker 3: With the boxes.
[48:25] Speaker 2: Stabler sees something and signals to hold back, hold back,
[48:28] Speaker 2: and it's Rojas in a soup, So like, why is
[48:30] Speaker 2: he here if the shipment's already out and been picked
[48:34] Speaker 2: up picked up? So Benson's confused about that, Like what
[48:37] Speaker 2: is Rojas up to? And maybe he's coming for the
[48:40] Speaker 2: flight with Ramona and they were supposed to meet here,
[48:42] Speaker 2: but like he doesn't know that she's not showing up.
[48:45] Speaker 2: Benson comes up to finish the job because Stabler feels
[48:48] Speaker 2: like he's been made already. So then Rojas sees Benson
[48:52] Speaker 2: and kind of starts talking on her and it looks
[48:54] Speaker 2: like they're flirting or he wants to make a move
[48:56] Speaker 2: on her. But then he leans in and we hear
[48:58] Speaker 2: him go, my cell phone is a twenty two gun.
[49:01] Speaker 2: Oh no, So then he says, come with Miel start
[49:04] Speaker 2: shooting random people. So of course Benson has to go.
[49:07] Speaker 2: He's she's being led out by a cell phone. I
[49:09] Speaker 2: don't even know his cell phone could be turned into
[49:10] Speaker 2: a gun. He also like is so smart and like
[49:14] Speaker 2: takes the gun off her hip on the other side too,
[49:17] Speaker 2: not his first time in the rodeo. So then Stabler
[49:20] Speaker 2: is following them but a little bit behind, and the
[49:22] Speaker 2: dude kicks open a personnel only door there's a cop
[49:24] Speaker 2: waiting for him. The cop gets shot in the chest
[49:27] Speaker 2: immediately from the cell phone. The Benson screams. Stabler rushes
[49:31] Speaker 2: to the dude he's wearing a vest and god, so
[49:32] Speaker 2: he'll be fine. And Stabler's like, I gotta go get
[49:35] Speaker 2: my girl, Like you can go. You can get your
[49:37] Speaker 2: own help, right, And he's like, I'll be fine. So
[49:39] Speaker 2: then Stabler runs a gun up and was like, police,
[49:44] Speaker 2: we got you. And this is Benson and the guy,
[49:47] Speaker 2: and then a few uniform cops arrive as well, and
[49:49] Speaker 2: then van Well has a gun to Benson's head. He
[49:52] Speaker 2: says he wants a car brought there with the shipment inside,
[49:55] Speaker 2: or he will kill Benson. She goes, oh, like you
[49:58] Speaker 2: killed Ramona and Carlos, And he goes, shut up, you
[50:00] Speaker 2: lying bitch. And she goes, there's a gun to my head.
[50:03] Speaker 2: Why would I lie? And she goes, you're the one
[50:05] Speaker 2: lying to me. You found Ramona with Carlos and you
[50:08] Speaker 2: slit their throats And he legit looks confused.
[50:11] Speaker 1: Like I don't think he did it. I don't think
[50:14] Speaker 1: he knows. I think he's he is waiting for remote,
[50:16] Speaker 1: Like this is a man who's literally probably slit hundreds
[50:20] Speaker 1: of throats and he's just like these two.
[50:22] Speaker 2: I don't think you guys, I'm no, yeah, no, I
[50:25] Speaker 2: think it's it's like buds. I think I don't know.
[50:27] Speaker 2: Maybe he like fucks Remo, Like I don't know, but
[50:29] Speaker 2: it seemed like he didn't like that, like he didn't
[50:32] Speaker 2: like that they were dead and that he didn't know it.
[50:34] Speaker 2: But he's also the lieutenant, so anything that he doesn't
[50:37] Speaker 2: know about is like he's he should know. I actually
[50:40] Speaker 2: don't know where lieutenant is in the high in the
[50:43] Speaker 2: cartel system. I'm like, I mean, HR is really going
[50:48] Speaker 2: to talk to him if he if he didn't know
[50:49] Speaker 2: what was going on.
[50:50] Speaker 3: Hum.
[50:52] Speaker 2: So he's confused, and then the moment of confusion he
[50:55] Speaker 2: gets shot dead. Benson's okay, but it wasn't Stabler that
[50:58] Speaker 2: shot him. It was FBI Dean Porter from the distance
[51:01] Speaker 2: in a suit shot him. So now they're going through
[51:05] Speaker 2: the cell phone and they open up and there's four
[51:07] Speaker 2: shots in there, and it's like a gun through an antenna.
[51:09] Speaker 2: This is actually really really cool. This is the kind
[51:11] Speaker 2: of technology I'm meant too you know what I mean.
[51:14] Speaker 2: This looks like a fake BlackBerry and it's a gun. Yeah,
[51:17] Speaker 2: that's cool. And instead of a gun, maybe for me
[51:20] Speaker 2: it could be a you know, a a weed pipe
[51:24] Speaker 2: or yeah, I don't.
[51:25] Speaker 3: Know, a little one hitter I would be great.
[51:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, a flask Like I like things that look like
[51:30] Speaker 2: technology that aren't.
[51:31] Speaker 3: That's that's that's where I'm at.
[51:33] Speaker 2: Ye make them in the former Yugoslavia, and they've recently
[51:36] Speaker 2: been showing up in Slovenia and Amsterdam. Like what a
[51:39] Speaker 2: crazy sentence, and then he says, wait, how you know
[51:44] Speaker 2: how were you made? She goes, I don't fucking know.
[51:46] Speaker 2: I really don't know. Everyone is confused, and then Benson
[51:49] Speaker 2: looks at Dean and says, I thought you were following
[51:51] Speaker 2: the drugs. And then he goes, well, the guys in
[51:53] Speaker 2: the minivan were spotted, so they were able to get
[51:55] Speaker 2: them right away. And on the radio he heard what
[51:58] Speaker 2: was up and came back and he's like, I also
[51:59] Speaker 2: saved her fucking life. But they also have to go
[52:02] Speaker 2: do statements. Stabler goes first, so Benson and Dean have
[52:05] Speaker 2: their own alone time. He says, you got your murderer,
[52:08] Speaker 2: but she doesn't understand why Rojas double crossed Ramona and Carlos,
[52:12] Speaker 2: But to me, he looked confused, but she had a
[52:14] Speaker 2: gunder her head like she can't really see that, and
[52:16] Speaker 2: then Dean says, well, Rojas wasn't the double crosser. She
[52:20] Speaker 2: asks how he knows, and we're back at TV screen
[52:23] Speaker 2: presentation time at home Base. So basically, his informant gave
[52:27] Speaker 2: him the scoop and then Ramona and Carlos got greedy.
[52:31] Speaker 2: Ramona stole Teddy Bears from the loads and then like
[52:34] Speaker 2: Carlos sold that heroin and Rojas got to them before
[52:37] Speaker 2: they could hijack the shipment they seized today, And it
[52:40] Speaker 2: doesn't make any sense to Benson since they had the
[52:43] Speaker 2: Teddy Bears, So why would Ramona smuggle heroin and her
[52:47] Speaker 2: implants if she had the Teddy Bears. I mean, Benson's
[52:49] Speaker 2: an incredible detective, and he's like, oh my god. They're
[52:52] Speaker 2: obsessed with finding new ways to bring drugs into the country.
[52:55] Speaker 2: It's kind of their thing. And then Craigan goes, okay,
[52:57] Speaker 2: great again, drugs is your thing, not so go do
[53:01] Speaker 2: that and we'll like give you the reports that we
[53:03] Speaker 2: have on the like the murders.
[53:05] Speaker 1: But yeah, Like it's like when you think about how
[53:07] Speaker 1: many how much heroin is in, like I don't know
[53:10] Speaker 1: one hundred Teddy bears, and you're like, I also have
[53:13] Speaker 1: this much these two little booby's worth, Like that doesn't
[53:15] Speaker 1: make any sense. It doesn't make sense at all, and
[53:17] Speaker 1: that's why Benson's asking and he's kind of shoving under
[53:20] Speaker 1: the rug and Craig it's like it's over for us
[53:21] Speaker 1: and they're just moving on.
[53:23] Speaker 2: So but then Porter asks Benson if she wants to
[53:25] Speaker 2: ride home, but Sailor goes, no, I'm good, thanks. It's
[53:28] Speaker 2: like no one is talking to and Benson looks at
[53:30] Speaker 2: Sailor like, you motherfucker.
[53:32] Speaker 1: He's trying to have sex with me. Can I have
[53:34] Speaker 1: any joy in my life?
[53:36] Speaker 3: Please? But indeed it is funny though it is funny.
[53:40] Speaker 3: He goes, no, I'm good, thanks, like it's funny the
[53:42] Speaker 3: way he says.
[53:43] Speaker 2: Sailor is funny and that's ep and Porter is dejected
[53:47] Speaker 2: and leaves. Craigan tells them that the chief of D's
[53:50] Speaker 2: wants your fives on his desk by eight am, so
[53:52] Speaker 2: they have to go type. So Munch brings two large
[53:55] Speaker 2: coffees for them, and s Taylor goes, God, your sailor
[53:58] Speaker 2: calls him a god. Melinda comes in and says, you
[54:02] Speaker 2: know it's gonna be a banger because she made the trip.
[54:05] Speaker 2: Everyone's it seems like everyone's pulling an all nighter tonight,
[54:08] Speaker 2: she says. So then she found a third DNA profile
[54:10] Speaker 2: in the murder truck, so the killer wasn't as careful
[54:13] Speaker 2: as she thought. And then they're like, but Rojas is dead,
[54:17] Speaker 2: but no, no, no, no, the purpose not a man.
[54:19] Speaker 3: What are you not understanding?
[54:20] Speaker 2: Rojas did not do it and was never in the truck,
[54:23] Speaker 2: which makes sense because he was confused.
[54:25] Speaker 3: Hello. And then Benson puts it together.
[54:28] Speaker 2: It was the roommate who tried to convince them that
[54:30] Speaker 2: she barely knew Ramona. But like Terry, like the woman,
[54:34] Speaker 2: Terry banes the roommate. That's a woman, so it could
[54:37] Speaker 2: have been her.
[54:39] Speaker 1: It is really funny that they're like, no, it was,
[54:40] Speaker 1: and it was I thought it was hers, but it
[54:42] Speaker 1: was another person, a woman with long brown hair. And
[54:44] Speaker 1: she's like, oh my god, another woman with long brown hair,
[54:48] Speaker 1: like it has to be Terry, like it is, it
[54:51] Speaker 1: is smart to suspect her, but she's like, cracks it
[54:53] Speaker 1: wide open based off the fact that they both have
[54:55] Speaker 1: long brown hair like half of New York, Like, yeah,
[54:59] Speaker 1: but I know, I get where you're coming from, but
[55:01] Speaker 1: I get where they would be like, well it's probably yeah,
[55:03] Speaker 1: I just.
[55:03] Speaker 3: I get it. Yeah, but.
[55:07] Speaker 1: It is funny that everything Melinda does not whenever she
[55:11] Speaker 1: shows up at the precinct, You're like, yes, something juicy,
[55:14] Speaker 1: like I you had sex with your sister, like whatever,
[55:17] Speaker 1: But it it Most of the time, it could be.
[55:20] Speaker 3: An email, you know what I mean, frozen semen.
[55:23] Speaker 1: By the way, we found another profile belongs to a woman,
[55:26] Speaker 1: Like that's it.
[55:28] Speaker 2: But this is what I miss, HUMANKI where we have
[55:31] Speaker 2: got the mor to talk. So Benson wants to loot
[55:35] Speaker 2: porter in but Stabler does not, And they chat with
[55:38] Speaker 2: a building super taking out the trash and he's like, oh, yeah,
[55:41] Speaker 2: she comes home around six o'clock. If my super knew
[55:45] Speaker 2: when I was coing in and out and telling people
[55:47] Speaker 2: when I get home at night, I would flip the
[55:49] Speaker 2: fuck out.
[55:50] Speaker 3: Yeah what are we talking about?
[55:53] Speaker 1: Well, okay, if you had a different lifestyle and he like,
[55:58] Speaker 1: and your super just saw you coming home your job
[56:00] Speaker 1: like pretty much every day at five point thirty.
[56:02] Speaker 2: Why is he there all the time at five thirty, Like,
[56:04] Speaker 2: what's going on? Why are you watching me when I
[56:05] Speaker 2: come home? That's true, Well, a lot of supers live
[56:07] Speaker 2: in the building. Yeah, next door. I'm just saying, like,
[56:10] Speaker 2: I don't know. Sometimes they go to a soul cycle,
[56:12] Speaker 2: or I have a dinner. Maybe there's a Broadway show
[56:14] Speaker 2: on the agenda. Maybe I got off work early. What
[56:16] Speaker 2: the fun are you doing?
[56:17] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[56:17] Speaker 1: I think you have like a more various life. I
[56:20] Speaker 1: think a lot of a lot of people do just
[56:22] Speaker 1: like go to work and come home every day. And
[56:24] Speaker 1: so maybe that's what he's observing. But but I hear
[56:27] Speaker 1: what you're saying. If that was happening to you, that
[56:28] Speaker 1: would be that would be yes, that would be weird.
[56:31] Speaker 3: It is freaky. But the landlords always know this shit.
[56:34] Speaker 1: They're always like, oh, yeah, she works over there, she
[56:36] Speaker 1: comes and goes, she's usually out late, whatever, Like they
[56:39] Speaker 1: always know this stuff.
[56:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess door man, I can't but that if
[56:43] Speaker 2: the super is just telling everyone when I come home, like,
[56:45] Speaker 2: what the well it is the.
[56:46] Speaker 1: Cops, right, Yeah, they've identified themselves as cops.
[56:50] Speaker 3: I'm pissed. Quit defending the super.
[56:55] Speaker 2: While they're chatting, a man comes in He's like, hey,
[56:59] Speaker 2: I'm here to remove the QUI from Terry Bain's apartment.
[57:01] Speaker 2: And his face is hid him by a few columns
[57:03] Speaker 2: and this guy. The guy's like, what the fuck she's
[57:06] Speaker 2: moving out with the about thirty days. Notice this is bullshit,
[57:09] Speaker 2: and he goes to let the dude in and the
[57:11] Speaker 2: dude's like, oh, no, rush, oh, I actually left something
[57:13] Speaker 2: in the van. I'll be right back. So he turns
[57:14] Speaker 2: around and to go back. Something clicks with Stabler. He
[57:17] Speaker 2: starts running after the guy. Benson follows no questions. We
[57:20] Speaker 2: see on the on like the truck it says space
[57:24] Speaker 2: Cadet Satellite TV. So Stabler goes, hey, space Cadet and
[57:28] Speaker 2: no one's doing anything, and then he goes how much
[57:30] Speaker 2: for the football package? The guy starts booking it to
[57:33] Speaker 2: the van. Stabler arrests his ass, turns him around. It's
[57:36] Speaker 2: the guy who installed the phones in the squadroom. So
[57:39] Speaker 2: they've been set up. Yeow wow, usual suspect twist, thank you.
[57:44] Speaker 1: And they turned the guy around for you to like,
[57:47] Speaker 1: what are his face and stuff? And I'm kind of like, oh,
[57:50] Speaker 1: is that is that him?
[57:51] Speaker 3: Like I I don't know.
[57:52] Speaker 1: I wasn't like a do you know what I mean?
[57:54] Speaker 1: It wasn't like he was I remembered him exactly. I
[57:57] Speaker 1: was like, oh, it's the phone guy. I didn't clock
[57:59] Speaker 1: the phone guy because I was mostly focused on Munch's
[58:02] Speaker 1: reaction to the progression of technology.
[58:05] Speaker 2: You know, it's a good show. Wait, what is laganzas?
[58:09] Speaker 2: You all wanted a twist, don't you What is y'all
[58:12] Speaker 2: wanted a twist? Yeah, it's a setup. It's a setup
[58:17] Speaker 2: all the phones in the precinct. So Craigan's like, we
[58:19] Speaker 2: need to sweep this whole place twice. And now they're
[58:23] Speaker 2: also finding tons of Mikes in Terry's apartment everywhere as well,
[58:27] Speaker 2: So that's probably what's happening, Like Terry's the informant or something.
[58:31] Speaker 3: I don't know what actually, what's happening here? Who's Mike's
[58:34] Speaker 3: and what does it lead to? Whatever?
[58:36] Speaker 1: We have space cadet in the cement room bars now, yeah,
[58:40] Speaker 1: and there were Mike. There's Mike's all over Terry's place.
[58:42] Speaker 1: There's Mike's all over the precinct. There's mikes. We got
[58:45] Speaker 1: Mike Mikes. Sailor meets Kragan and de la Fuente. Also,
[58:50] Speaker 1: I forgot have Joel de Lafuente is the actor's name
[58:52] Speaker 1: or yes, Joel is the actor? What's the character and
[58:58] Speaker 1: the characters can taru? The character's name is is Ruben Morales?
[59:09] Speaker 3: Ruben moralee?
[59:10] Speaker 1: Yes, he just always call him Joel. That really rolls
[59:13] Speaker 1: off the top, DoLS really does it for me? Like
[59:17] Speaker 1: Ruben Morales is fine but not as good as Yeah.
[59:21] Speaker 3: Yeah, and I just love that.
[59:23] Speaker 2: Like well, I was about to say I loved when
[59:24] Speaker 2: his nephew got molested and he went and fought somebody,
[59:27] Speaker 2: but I don't. I wish his nephew was not molested
[59:29] Speaker 2: in the show, But I just like when we learn
[59:31] Speaker 2: more personally.
[59:32] Speaker 3: We give a little behind.
[59:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, did I tell you Doyle O Doyle.
[59:37] Speaker 3: Sexy Doyle, Michael Flann I don't know. I don't. The
[59:40] Speaker 3: names are not crossing for me. But he was in
[59:42] Speaker 3: an El.
[59:42] Speaker 1: Spith so pretty excited. Oh okay, okay. So then Dylan Walsh,
[59:48] Speaker 1: the family annihilator is in heated rivalry. Yeah, who refused
[59:52] Speaker 1: to do our Why won't he do the fucking I.
[59:54] Speaker 3: Don't even know if he was responded. I need to
[59:56] Speaker 3: get him refused he refused, I don't think he did.
[1:00:00] Speaker 3: I don't think I've heard he's turned it down. I
[1:00:01] Speaker 3: think it's like we've just been trying and not hearing anything.
[1:00:04] Speaker 2: And one of the girls from Yellow Jackets is in it,
[1:00:05] Speaker 2: Shanna Faisa Jackets.
[1:00:07] Speaker 3: Yeah, Shawna, can it okay? So we have the same
[1:00:11] Speaker 3: Pierre person. No big deal. I'm sure she's paying hers
[1:00:16] Speaker 3: at the moment and I am not. I'm on pause.
[1:00:19] Speaker 3: You will be with her whatever. Everyone's an informant.
[1:00:28] Speaker 2: Everything's crazy, Space Cadets in the cement room, bars, Stabler
[1:00:32] Speaker 2: meets Craigan and Delafuente at the spy window. This guy's
[1:00:35] Speaker 2: Michael Garcia. He's thirty eight, fifteen years. He's served in
[1:00:38] Speaker 2: Alpasto Police Force. In the last three he was in
[1:00:40] Speaker 2: the tech support unit. Benson's in there and he goes,
[1:00:43] Speaker 2: I know my rights. I have nothing to say. Dean
[1:00:45] Speaker 2: Porter goes, you fucking idiot. Every single device you implanted
[1:00:48] Speaker 2: is five years in federal prison. You're up to three decades.
[1:00:51] Speaker 2: Benson goes, who are you working for? He says, pass, okay,
[1:00:55] Speaker 2: So now we're like behind the window. So Ramona and
[1:00:58] Speaker 2: Carlos are murdered and the new phones get installed here
[1:01:01] Speaker 2: the next day and Porter's like, yeah, the cartel actively
[1:01:04] Speaker 2: recruits Road Texas cops. They must have hired him to
[1:01:06] Speaker 2: bug the blaze, so they knew they were on the shipment,
[1:01:09] Speaker 2: So then why would they go through the My question
[1:01:11] Speaker 2: is why would they do the shipment if they knew
[1:01:13] Speaker 2: that they were found out about the shipment?
[1:01:15] Speaker 3: Right? Like, I don't understand.
[1:01:17] Speaker 2: And then Benson's like, so if they got warned from
[1:01:19] Speaker 2: all of that, like, why would they go through with it?
[1:01:21] Speaker 2: And then also, how does Terry Bains connect to all
[1:01:24] Speaker 2: of this? And why was she all bugged up? And
[1:01:27] Speaker 2: he says, when I find out, I'll call you. He
[1:01:29] Speaker 2: guess is she's part of the cartel though, And since
[1:01:32] Speaker 2: it's the cartel, he wants the case and Stabler goes, no,
[1:01:34] Speaker 2: she's a suspect and a double homicide.
[1:01:36] Speaker 3: It's our case.
[1:01:38] Speaker 2: And they battle again for the caseloads like so annoying,
[1:01:40] Speaker 2: and then Porter gets sick of this and goes, they
[1:01:42] Speaker 2: bugged your whole office. Do you get the reach of
[1:01:44] Speaker 2: these people? Like do you not fucking understand? You need
[1:01:47] Speaker 2: to back the fuck down. And I'm going to take
[1:01:49] Speaker 2: the wire tapper too. So Greagan says, fine, Garcia is
[1:01:52] Speaker 2: all yours. Stabler is fuming. So the FBI guy just
[1:01:55] Speaker 2: pass us on the head and says, good job, and
[1:01:57] Speaker 2: we're supposed to bend over and take it. And Craigan
[1:02:00] Speaker 2: just tells them both to go home, but they don't
[1:02:03] Speaker 2: listen in obviously, and they drive to Terry's house, but
[1:02:06] Speaker 2: she's on the move, paper bag in hand, and so
[1:02:08] Speaker 2: now we go to follow her. She uses a payphone,
[1:02:11] Speaker 2: and Stabler says, I can't blame her for not trusting
[1:02:13] Speaker 2: the phones in her house. But then Benson goes, how
[1:02:16] Speaker 2: would she even know about the phone situation? Like when
[1:02:18] Speaker 2: we were with Terrud, like we found the bugs, she
[1:02:21] Speaker 2: wasn't gone and we never talked to her about this,
[1:02:24] Speaker 2: so what the fuck? And then on the payphone they
[1:02:26] Speaker 2: realized she never said a word, she just listened, but
[1:02:28] Speaker 2: she made the call. And then she wipes her prints off,
[1:02:31] Speaker 2: so what the fuck. Then they follow her to a
[1:02:33] Speaker 2: grocery store forty blocks away fully cross town. Benson goes in,
[1:02:38] Speaker 2: Stabler stays outside, so she's shopping really fast.
[1:02:41] Speaker 3: Benson is lurking.
[1:02:42] Speaker 2: She stops her car and asks, this is one of
[1:02:44] Speaker 2: my favorite scenes of SU History, Like, I just fucking
[1:02:46] Speaker 2: love this part like, I really do. So she stops
[1:02:48] Speaker 2: her cart and she asks an old man for help
[1:02:51] Speaker 2: reaching something that's up high. He picks it up, but
[1:02:53] Speaker 2: then he you know, helps read the label. They're speaking Spanish.
[1:02:56] Speaker 2: She gives it to her, she takes his cart, he
[1:02:59] Speaker 2: takes her cart.
[1:02:59] Speaker 3: With the bag. It's a drop trade craft tradecraft.
[1:03:03] Speaker 2: So then the guy has bag and has oh my god,
[1:03:07] Speaker 2: guy has bag.
[1:03:07] Speaker 3: That's what I wrote. Guy has bag.
[1:03:11] Speaker 2: Guy has bag, and Benson's gonna get Terry, who obviously
[1:03:14] Speaker 2: starts running the moment she sees Benson, so on Walkee's
[1:03:18] Speaker 2: Stabler goes, I'll get her, you get the guy with
[1:03:20] Speaker 2: the bag. So then Benson goes up to the front
[1:03:22] Speaker 2: seat him and tries talking to him. He goes in Spanish,
[1:03:24] Speaker 2: she goes, oh, I don't speak English. She goes, oh no,
[1:03:27] Speaker 2: and then she starts talking to her in Spanish like
[1:03:29] Speaker 2: she's Benson talking to him, and so then in Spanish
[1:03:32] Speaker 2: she goes, oh is this your stuff? And he's like,
[1:03:34] Speaker 2: oh fuck fuck, and then she takes out the package
[1:03:36] Speaker 2: and it's the breast implant and it's upperware.
[1:03:39] Speaker 3: She arrests his ass. He seems pretty sad about it.
[1:03:41] Speaker 2: Stablor comes back he's lost Terry, and then Benson is
[1:03:45] Speaker 2: reading Miranda writes in Spanish.
[1:03:47] Speaker 3: Hot.
[1:03:47] Speaker 2: Then we see in the distance Dean Porter is watching
[1:03:50] Speaker 2: all of this go down like from his vehicle spine.
[1:03:55] Speaker 2: Now we cut to cement room bars. It's all Spanish chat.
[1:03:57] Speaker 2: She's like, hey, you're in a ton of trouble, like
[1:03:59] Speaker 2: are you?
[1:04:00] Speaker 3: You don't want a lawyer?
[1:04:00] Speaker 2: He goes, what for? She explains the murder. He just goes, wow,
[1:04:03] Speaker 2: horrible thing. What does this have to do with me.
[1:04:06] Speaker 2: She's like, well, that breast and plant you have is
[1:04:07] Speaker 2: from a murdered woman. He goes, yeah, it was in
[1:04:09] Speaker 2: the woman's cart, not mine. Go get her and they're like,
[1:04:13] Speaker 2: we know it's on purpose, Like we saw all of this.
[1:04:15] Speaker 2: Here's her photo, Like we know everything. He says the
[1:04:18] Speaker 2: US Constitution says, you cannot force me to tell you anything.
[1:04:21] Speaker 2: And Craigan and Stabler are watching this go down and
[1:04:23] Speaker 2: it's been two fucking hours, no prints, no ID, no names.
[1:04:26] Speaker 2: So they're like, let's put him in the cage. Craigan says,
[1:04:29] Speaker 2: to go to Taru. Joel has something to tell them,
[1:04:31] Speaker 2: but he wants to keep it off the phones. Obviously,
[1:04:33] Speaker 2: the call Terry made from the payphone went to a
[1:04:35] Speaker 2: pager that's disposable. But the lab found a SIM card
[1:04:39] Speaker 2: in the waterproof container inside the breast implant, So you
[1:04:44] Speaker 2: were right, it's not drugs. It's a SIM card.
[1:04:47] Speaker 1: And again, like, could she not have taken out the
[1:04:50] Speaker 1: SIM card? Do we have to be like throwing breast
[1:04:53] Speaker 1: in plants around a grocery store, like take out the
[1:04:58] Speaker 1: SIM card put it in like a little doll. I
[1:05:00] Speaker 1: don't know, Like it just seems weird that we're just
[1:05:02] Speaker 1: like keeping it in.
[1:05:03] Speaker 3: The breaston plant. Like that's a good point too. I
[1:05:06] Speaker 3: don't know. I mean, they have a lot to think about,
[1:05:08] Speaker 3: you know.
[1:05:09] Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of details in this episode. It
[1:05:12] Speaker 1: is very James Bourney or Jason Bourney. Excuse me, James Bourne.
[1:05:17] Speaker 2: Benson goes damn. So the sim card is worth killing
[1:05:20] Speaker 2: two people over what is it? And Joel de laf
[1:05:22] Speaker 2: Once did clone it? So then there's a Texas to
[1:05:25] Speaker 2: see you at the Museum at five and a code
[1:05:27] Speaker 2: embedded in dots in a binary sequence.
[1:05:29] Speaker 3: YadA YadA. I can't I can you know how I
[1:05:31] Speaker 3: feel about this?
[1:05:32] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a bunch of names, though tons of names
[1:05:36] Speaker 2: with their contact infos. So then Dean Porter enters Taru,
[1:05:39] Speaker 2: paper in hand and he's like, I'm taking all of
[1:05:41] Speaker 2: this evidence.
[1:05:42] Speaker 3: Go fuck yourselves.
[1:05:43] Speaker 2: The warrant says I can have it, and it's signed
[1:05:45] Speaker 2: by a federal judge. He won't tell them anything, and
[1:05:48] Speaker 2: he's like for the last time, back off, and then
[1:05:51] Speaker 2: Joel Taru's like, oh, I get it. So then you know,
[1:05:54] Speaker 2: the door closes and he's like, when he examined the
[1:05:57] Speaker 2: bugs in the squad room, the serial numbers sanded off,
[1:06:02] Speaker 2: and it bothered him because the cartel wouldn't have taken
[1:06:04] Speaker 2: the time to remove them, but it's standard procedure for
[1:06:07] Speaker 2: the f B. I.
[1:06:12] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy.
[1:06:14] Speaker 2: Porter bugged the phones but removed them before he found
[1:06:18] Speaker 2: them at Taro. So the phone guy was working for Porter,
[1:06:21] Speaker 2: and Porter lied about the whole cartel story, and Benson
[1:06:25] Speaker 2: calls him a rat bastard.
[1:06:27] Speaker 3: And he always knew that.
[1:06:29] Speaker 2: Oh my god, I was doing a joke about the
[1:06:30] Speaker 2: rats are in Seattle and someone was like, what's a
[1:06:33] Speaker 2: ratsar like, oh.
[1:06:34] Speaker 3: Yeah, my bad.
[1:06:35] Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't live in a city with the rats are.
[1:06:38] Speaker 1: Sorry about that. I forgot.
[1:06:42] Speaker 2: He always knew that Terry killed Ramona to stop her
[1:06:45] Speaker 2: from smuggling the SIM card to Mexico. So why was
[1:06:49] Speaker 2: she giving it to this old man? So let's go
[1:06:51] Speaker 2: ask him. Craigan appears behind them. Good luck, he was
[1:06:55] Speaker 2: sprung by the State Department. And guess who's being paid
[1:06:59] Speaker 2: sixty one grand a year by a company that only
[1:07:02] Speaker 2: exists on paper.
[1:07:03] Speaker 3: It's Terry.
[1:07:04] Speaker 2: She's hired by the CIA, So like, that's what CIA
[1:07:08] Speaker 2: mid level people make. She's a spook, all right, Okay,
[1:07:10] Speaker 2: so that's the word. But he says she's spying on
[1:07:13] Speaker 2: them for Cuba. So the names on the cards are
[1:07:16] Speaker 2: probably American agents that are stationed there that she was
[1:07:20] Speaker 2: gonna give up. And Stabler asks why Cuba and munches
[1:07:24] Speaker 2: like the shortwave radio. That's how Cuban spies communicate all
[1:07:27] Speaker 2: over the world. They send coded messages through pagers and payphones,
[1:07:31] Speaker 2: and they're known for making drops and old shopping cart switcheroos.
[1:07:34] Speaker 2: So then why would Terry give Ramona classified information to
[1:07:37] Speaker 2: smuggle in her implants when she barely knew her.
[1:07:40] Speaker 3: So more lies.
[1:07:43] Speaker 2: They both graduated Laredo High School the class of ninety eight.
[1:07:46] Speaker 2: That's why Porter bugged them. He wanted to know how
[1:07:49] Speaker 2: close they were to getting Terry's secrets. Cragan goes, or Terry,
[1:07:54] Speaker 2: I bet she's with him now, like a million bucks.
[1:07:56] Speaker 2: He knows exactly where Terry is. Benson is stunned, like
[1:08:00] Speaker 2: never trusts an FBI guy. Okay, So we're at Benson's apartment.
[1:08:03] Speaker 2: She's dressed hot as hell, red date, red date dress
[1:08:06] Speaker 2: and opens the door, you know, and Dean Porter's there.
[1:08:09] Speaker 2: He gives her flowers. She exclaims, wow, thanks for the invite.
[1:08:13] Speaker 2: He's like, happy to be accepted into her apartment. He
[1:08:16] Speaker 2: loves her apartment. And he says, last time I was here,
[1:08:19] Speaker 2: and she cuts him off and goes very different circumstances.
[1:08:22] Speaker 2: You know, they have a past. So then she grabs
[1:08:25] Speaker 2: a vase, you know, with her brother and stuff and
[1:08:27] Speaker 2: the underground environmental railroad, like a lot of stuff's happening.
[1:08:31] Speaker 2: So she grabs a vase to put the flowers in.
[1:08:33] Speaker 2: And he's like, are you sure you don't want to
[1:08:35] Speaker 2: go out, and she's like, well, I rarely get to
[1:08:37] Speaker 2: cook for anyone, so I like this. And then Stabler
[1:08:40] Speaker 2: and Joel delavoyter are in another room. This is an
[1:08:43] Speaker 2: what NYC apartment? Like there is no fucking way you
[1:08:46] Speaker 2: would not hear these people, like all of us live
[1:08:48] Speaker 2: and really.
[1:08:49] Speaker 1: The presence of another person in the room.
[1:08:53] Speaker 2: And you know, Stabler didn't take his cop shoes off.
[1:08:55] Speaker 2: There's no way he's in a sock. He is a
[1:08:57] Speaker 2: heavy footed man.
[1:08:59] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:09:00] Speaker 1: Yeah, he's wearing a mule kind of type shoe, a
[1:09:04] Speaker 1: lace up.
[1:09:04] Speaker 3: Yeah. So he needs he needs to get closer.
[1:09:08] Speaker 2: And they're on the couch, but his phone starts beeping
[1:09:10] Speaker 2: and Benson asks him everything, if everything's okay. He goes, no,
[1:09:14] Speaker 2: it's just weird. I just checked my phone and my
[1:09:16] Speaker 2: bluetooth kicked in. She goes, oh, that's weird, but brings
[1:09:18] Speaker 2: them two glasses of wine. But you know, I don't
[1:09:20] Speaker 2: know what Joel's doing, but he's figuring something with the
[1:09:22] Speaker 2: bluetooth out. She asked, what are you gonna twitter this
[1:09:25] Speaker 2: or something? What are you gonna twitter.
[1:09:27] Speaker 3: This or something? What a little time capsule? What are
[1:09:29] Speaker 3: you gonna twitter this?
[1:09:31] Speaker 2: If we named you know, a lot of podcasts will
[1:09:34] Speaker 2: like name their episode based on something them or their
[1:09:36] Speaker 2: guests said throughout the episode of the kind of.
[1:09:38] Speaker 3: Podcast a twitter this, Twitter this or something?
[1:09:44] Speaker 2: He smiles, Yeah, like he wants to get fucked so like,
[1:09:47] Speaker 2: even though the bluetooth he is in the FBI, he
[1:09:49] Speaker 2: might be suspicious. It's like Marishka in a red dress
[1:09:52] Speaker 2: bringing wine to you and like flirting. So this is yeah,
[1:09:56] Speaker 2: he puts the phone away, They cheers, and the software
[1:09:59] Speaker 2: uploads happening. I'm not sure if they're getting info, putting
[1:10:01] Speaker 2: in FO getting the I don't know what they're doing
[1:10:03] Speaker 2: back there.
[1:10:04] Speaker 1: She's on there basically, like I think they're just doing
[1:10:07] Speaker 1: that phone where that thing where they like clone your phone.
[1:10:09] Speaker 1: But like, as far as I know, you have to
[1:10:12] Speaker 1: have your bluetooth on, like you cannot compel someone's bluetooth
[1:10:16] Speaker 1: to pop on.
[1:10:17] Speaker 3: But I could be wrong.
[1:10:18] Speaker 1: I'm sure we've got some computer engineer people out there
[1:10:20] Speaker 1: or whatever that could tell us. But that's a weird
[1:10:23] Speaker 1: thing too. He's like, oh my bluetooth just popped on.
[1:10:25] Speaker 1: It's like what But also the year that this is,
[1:10:27] Speaker 1: I don't even know what kind of phones we're dealing with.
[1:10:29] Speaker 1: So I think they're cloning his phone because they're trying
[1:10:32] Speaker 1: to be able to tap it and see what he's doing.
[1:10:36] Speaker 3: But it's all software.
[1:10:38] Speaker 2: But he's having fun. He goes, you're much more relaxed
[1:10:40] Speaker 2: than yesterday. And he goes, well, thanks to you, my
[1:10:43] Speaker 2: case load is two bodies lighter. I mean that's a
[1:10:45] Speaker 2: red flag. Like the bitch wants to work, and she says,
[1:10:48] Speaker 2: I'm sorry I stepped on your toes. Again she would
[1:10:51] Speaker 2: never apologize, Like he must know something's up, but again
[1:10:55] Speaker 2: it's enticing. He's probably horny. So he goes, oh, is
[1:10:58] Speaker 2: this what this is about? Like an and she says no,
[1:11:02] Speaker 2: and you know, puts her hand on his shoulder, tustles
[1:11:05] Speaker 2: her hair, looks down, goes, you know, you really helped
[1:11:07] Speaker 2: me out of that mess with my brother. And I'm like, yeah,
[1:11:11] Speaker 2: I guess. She owes him a makeout for that, and
[1:11:13] Speaker 2: so she also says, and you saved my life three
[1:11:15] Speaker 2: days ago. And I never properly thank you. I mean,
[1:11:18] Speaker 2: this is so Jasmine Jafar coated. And then they're kissing,
[1:11:26] Speaker 2: so true. Yeah, So then they kiss and then this
[1:11:31] Speaker 2: is getting good. And then they're getting all the contacts
[1:11:34] Speaker 2: on the spyware of his phone. They're getting all this information.
[1:11:37] Speaker 2: Joel goes, okay, do it, do it. Stabler dials and
[1:11:40] Speaker 2: starts making a call, but they're all in one apartment.
[1:11:44] Speaker 2: I don't get what's happening. But Benson's yeah, they're having
[1:11:48] Speaker 2: a good makeout. And then the text is to Kragan
[1:11:51] Speaker 2: make the call, and then the cell rings from Kragan
[1:11:54] Speaker 2: and that that cuts the make out. He says, don't
[1:11:57] Speaker 2: answer it. She goes, it's Cragan's ring tone, so that
[1:12:00] Speaker 2: time this is like so dated that everyone would have
[1:12:02] Speaker 2: different ring tones, and he sighs and then yes, Captain,
[1:12:05] Speaker 2: hang on, go ahead, and we hear him say something,
[1:12:08] Speaker 2: and then we hear Terry Terry, and she says, okay,
[1:12:11] Speaker 2: I'm on my way, and he clearly heard this, but
[1:12:14] Speaker 2: he wants to hook up. It's like worth it, like
[1:12:16] Speaker 2: it's really it's funny to watch this up. And she goes, listen,
[1:12:19] Speaker 2: it's a rape murder, and Chelsea, I have to go.
[1:12:21] Speaker 2: So she kicks them out of there, asks for a
[1:12:23] Speaker 2: rain check, and that's that. So then the boys come
[1:12:26] Speaker 2: out and Stabler goes, are you sure that he heard
[1:12:30] Speaker 2: Terry's name?
[1:12:31] Speaker 3: So that's the point. So to me, I'm like, are
[1:12:33] Speaker 3: they stupid?
[1:12:34] Speaker 2: He's gonna hear but the plan was for him to
[1:12:36] Speaker 2: hear it, and so then when he calls her to
[1:12:38] Speaker 2: warn her or something like you know, then they'll get
[1:12:42] Speaker 2: to follow him to her so she goes, I mean
[1:12:44] Speaker 2: I had the volume on Max. Joel said he for
[1:12:48] Speaker 2: sure heard it. We already hear the dial. There's a
[1:12:50] Speaker 2: landline in a midtown hotel. So Benson goes, oh to
[1:12:54] Speaker 2: warn Terry. So they rushed to the hotel. Stabler kicks
[1:12:56] Speaker 2: down the door. There's police. Let me see her hands.
[1:12:59] Speaker 2: It's Terry. She puts her hands in the air. Don't shoot,
[1:13:02] Speaker 2: I'm not armed. Benson arrest her for the murder of
[1:13:04] Speaker 2: Ramona and Carlos. She pleads, no, I'm not a killer.
[1:13:07] Speaker 2: So we're in cement roombars. She's really sad. Staylor is
[1:13:10] Speaker 2: like having a go. You carved her up to steal
[1:13:12] Speaker 2: the SIM card. We know everything, Terry, we know those
[1:13:15] Speaker 2: names belong to American spies in Cuba. You were going
[1:13:18] Speaker 2: to sell them out? You're a trader, She says, no,
[1:13:20] Speaker 2: you have it all wrong. He calls her a liar.
[1:13:23] Speaker 2: Ramona was going to get that card to Cuban intelligence,
[1:13:25] Speaker 2: she says, no, to the resistance. Cuban resistance, but why
[1:13:29] Speaker 2: would they need the names of American agents. She's like
[1:13:31] Speaker 2: to so we could feed intelligence back to the US.
[1:13:35] Speaker 2: And so she asks why she didn't take the card herself,
[1:13:39] Speaker 2: and she says, because she's an analyst at the CIA's
[1:13:41] Speaker 2: Cuban desks, you know, like she's a trader to Cuba
[1:13:44] Speaker 2: and is helping America and the resistance, like she and
[1:13:47] Speaker 2: then if the Cubans knew I was there, they would
[1:13:49] Speaker 2: have killed her. So Benson asks, so you were going
[1:13:51] Speaker 2: to get your old high school friend to do your
[1:13:53] Speaker 2: dirty work instead, and she goes, no, she came to
[1:13:55] Speaker 2: visit me. She had no idea like that, this was
[1:13:58] Speaker 2: the cartel's business. Stands up and before she could continue talking,
[1:14:01] Speaker 2: Benson's like, shut up. So you want us to say that,
[1:14:04] Speaker 2: like you asked your friend to be a spy, and
[1:14:06] Speaker 2: we're like, we're just gonna believe this.
[1:14:07] Speaker 3: She goes, yeah, she wanted faked hits. So I came
[1:14:10] Speaker 3: up with the idea.
[1:14:11] Speaker 2: I offered her fifty grand plus surgery paid in full
[1:14:14] Speaker 2: to smuggle this to Cuba, and she jumped at the chance.
[1:14:17] Speaker 2: So Stabler asks how it turned into that, and like
[1:14:20] Speaker 2: points to the photos of all the dead bodies, like
[1:14:22] Speaker 2: what happened here? Because she started to blackmail me, She cries,
[1:14:26] Speaker 2: she asked for more money, and I told her that, like,
[1:14:28] Speaker 2: we don't have anymore. She didn't care. She said, what
[1:14:31] Speaker 2: are you gonna do? Cut them out of me? And
[1:14:32] Speaker 2: Benson goes, well you did. She raises her voice. I
[1:14:35] Speaker 2: had no chance. If the Cubans got that card, they
[1:14:38] Speaker 2: would have all killed all of our agents. Everyone was compromised.
[1:14:41] Speaker 2: Everyone would be dead. And Ramona did not give a fuck.
[1:14:45] Speaker 2: So that night I followed her and I had to
[1:14:47] Speaker 2: do it. I had no choice. And Benson's pissed. She goes,
[1:14:50] Speaker 2: you had people's lives in your hands, and you entrusted
[1:14:53] Speaker 2: it to some flake, and she goes, I would have
[1:14:55] Speaker 2: trusted her with my life. We're not just high school friends,
[1:14:57] Speaker 2: we're cousins, were like sisters.
[1:15:00] Speaker 1: But then she then I just don't okay, sorry, go on,
[1:15:03] Speaker 1: I just don't get how, like how Ramona, I mean,
[1:15:07] Speaker 1: Terry didn't know that Ramona was involved in cartel shit.
[1:15:11] Speaker 2: Well, she got addicted to drugs, like it happened later,
[1:15:13] Speaker 2: you know, I think that happened. And then it's just
[1:15:16] Speaker 2: like she just probably Carlos was fucking her real good too.
[1:15:20] Speaker 2: They're not talking about it, but that's what's happening here.
[1:15:23] Speaker 2: She's doing drugs and getting fucked and then like that's
[1:15:26] Speaker 2: that you make bad discontimes. Yeah, because I'm thinking about
[1:15:30] Speaker 2: that Sophia Vagara scene in her that show that I watched,
[1:15:34] Speaker 2: you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, because she made she put
[1:15:38] Speaker 2: a gun to everyone and made a rape, but like
[1:15:41] Speaker 2: forced two guys to fuck each other up in the
[1:15:43] Speaker 2: middle of one of our parties at one point as Morelda, Yeah, yeah,
[1:15:48] Speaker 2: I think I don't I don't do those kinds of drugs.
[1:15:51] Speaker 3: So like, I don't know, Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
[1:15:55] Speaker 2: I've never like, you know, been like, ah, you're gonna
[1:15:59] Speaker 2: cut out my tits want more money.
[1:16:00] Speaker 3: I don't know what happened. Yeah, you can turn against
[1:16:02] Speaker 3: your cousin. God. So she sits back down. She's sad.
[1:16:07] Speaker 3: She goes, I loved her, I really did.
[1:16:09] Speaker 2: And they're like, okay, so what about the supermarket And
[1:16:11] Speaker 2: she goes, that's a Cuban atsche stationed at east Side
[1:16:14] Speaker 2: I like that word attache stationed at east Side Mission.
[1:16:18] Speaker 2: And he's a double agent. And she knew like this
[1:16:20] Speaker 2: old dude would be able to get the infot of
[1:16:22] Speaker 2: the resistance, like he's a seasoned guy. Benson goes, well,
[1:16:25] Speaker 2: how much of this did Dean Porter know? She looks
[1:16:28] Speaker 2: up everything after I killed Ramona and the boy I
[1:16:33] Speaker 2: called him and he told me to stage the bodies
[1:16:35] Speaker 2: and hang the underwear up. Porter bust the door right
[1:16:40] Speaker 2: at that moment, Ramona, shut your mouth. Benson says, it's
[1:16:43] Speaker 2: too late, you prick Terry. Let's go. She gets up
[1:16:46] Speaker 2: to leave with him. Stabler grabs her gently and says
[1:16:49] Speaker 2: she's not going anywhere. Benson is crazy here, like she
[1:16:52] Speaker 2: to think she was going to do this, But she goes,
[1:16:54] Speaker 2: Dean Porter, you're under arrest for accessory to murder. It's
[1:16:58] Speaker 2: like okay, Benson. Craigan pops his head in. No, he's
[1:17:01] Speaker 2: not Captain. She says sternly. He's leaving with Terry. There's
[1:17:05] Speaker 2: a stairwell in the alley and it's out of our hands.
[1:17:07] Speaker 2: Benson goes, she killed two people in cold blood. Craigan says,
[1:17:12] Speaker 2: I got an order. Do what I say. Stabler goes
[1:17:15] Speaker 2: go to hell. Benson is stunned, dumbfounded, like she's so
[1:17:18] Speaker 2: fucked up over this. She asks him for the truth,
[1:17:21] Speaker 2: like you know that is she lying or not? Did
[1:17:23] Speaker 2: you know about all of this? And he goes, it's
[1:17:25] Speaker 2: a matter of national security, and she screams it's murder
[1:17:29] Speaker 2: and he says, she did what she had to do.
[1:17:31] Speaker 2: She looks at him with a side eye, just like
[1:17:34] Speaker 2: you did with Manuel Rojas.
[1:17:36] Speaker 3: He had a gun to your head.
[1:17:37] Speaker 2: She says, oh yeah, or did you shoot him to
[1:17:39] Speaker 2: stop him from telling us the truth?
[1:17:41] Speaker 3: Which all leads back to you.
[1:17:43] Speaker 2: He says, whatever I say, you won't believe me, and
[1:17:45] Speaker 2: she says, I trusted you. Why did you? Why didn't
[1:17:48] Speaker 2: you tell me? He slowly turns back around. Why didn't
[1:17:52] Speaker 2: you trust me? She says again, our feelings don't matter?
[1:17:55] Speaker 2: He responds, and he walks off. Benson looks at her
[1:17:59] Speaker 2: reflection in the spy mirror, and she's really sad.
[1:18:03] Speaker 3: And slowly, you know, backs away.
[1:18:05] Speaker 2: I mean, she can't have love, she can't have a French,
[1:18:07] Speaker 2: she can't have appears, she can't have anyone. Well because
[1:18:12] Speaker 2: the bugging it's before, it's before he kept them busy
[1:18:16] Speaker 2: with a fake crime.
[1:18:17] Speaker 1: Yes, but she goes, why didn't you trust me? And
[1:18:20] Speaker 1: it's like, well, you did lure him to your house
[1:18:22] Speaker 1: and make out with him so that you could clone
[1:18:24] Speaker 1: his phone and get more information. I mean, like you're
[1:18:26] Speaker 1: not innocent here in terms of like the trust game,
[1:18:29] Speaker 1: you know what I mean?
[1:18:30] Speaker 3: Like and I don't know. Yeah, we gotta. The only
[1:18:35] Speaker 3: other episode with.
[1:18:36] Speaker 1: Him we've we've done is infiltrated, So I'm interested to
[1:18:39] Speaker 1: do the other ones like Florida and the you know,
[1:18:41] Speaker 1: some of these Simon ones because I don't I don't
[1:18:43] Speaker 1: remember what when their sexual chemistry kicks in because it infiltrated,
[1:18:48] Speaker 1: she does not like him, like he's.
[1:18:49] Speaker 2: A depending or not, depending on who maybe the guest
[1:18:53] Speaker 2: is today. I might have watched all of them before today.
[1:18:58] Speaker 1: Okay, I mean this, It is like, what's the timeline?
[1:19:05] Speaker 3: Though? Ramona comes to visit, comes to visit.
[1:19:10] Speaker 1: Her cousin in New York, and is like, I really
[1:19:13] Speaker 1: want a boob job.
[1:19:14] Speaker 3: I really want a boob job.
[1:19:15] Speaker 1: So she gets her a boom job with these special implants, and.
[1:19:18] Speaker 2: Then she's able to lure or the top assassin of
[1:19:21] Speaker 2: the cartel.
[1:19:22] Speaker 1: Yeah, and then and then she gets into the drug trade,
[1:19:25] Speaker 1: or she was in it before she came.
[1:19:26] Speaker 3: They're all from Laredo.
[1:19:28] Speaker 1: That guy's from Laredo too, he had Laredo, Texas on
[1:19:30] Speaker 1: his ID.
[1:19:31] Speaker 3: Yeah, but maybe she was just.
[1:19:32] Speaker 2: Like doing drugs, partying, wanted tits meet the oh I
[1:19:35] Speaker 2: can make money, Oh the teddy bears, Oh, you know,
[1:19:38] Speaker 2: like so, but it's.
[1:19:39] Speaker 1: Still it's still like, it still is stupid of Terry
[1:19:42] Speaker 1: to use her as an asset when she's involved in
[1:19:46] Speaker 1: drugs at all, even if she didn't know how involved
[1:19:48] Speaker 1: in drugs.
[1:19:48] Speaker 2: She was right, this ties into the true crime. But yeah,
[1:19:53] Speaker 2: it no, you're right, And that's what Benson said, like
[1:19:55] Speaker 2: why would you trust her? But if they were like cousins,
[1:19:57] Speaker 2: Like I get it, but you know, Dean Porter at
[1:19:59] Speaker 2: the end, Sassar feel don't matter. Yeah, most people in
[1:20:02] Speaker 2: the FBI or psychopaths, they're encouraged to date and marry
[1:20:04] Speaker 2: each other because you can't really trust anyone outside of it.
[1:20:07] Speaker 3: Oh and you can't talk about anything.
[1:20:09] Speaker 1: And I saw this online but like it's like you
[1:20:12] Speaker 1: think these people are rich, but the fact that they're
[1:20:14] Speaker 1: just what is it disabling?
[1:20:16] Speaker 2: Destabilizing? Like countries for sixty one grand a year? I know,
[1:20:21] Speaker 2: like it makes such hard work, such hard work, But
[1:20:25] Speaker 2: you know that's why the sum that like end up
[1:20:27] Speaker 2: going to jail for like revealing secrets and actually care
[1:20:29] Speaker 2: about the country.
[1:20:30] Speaker 3: There are people that have a service and a duty.
[1:20:32] Speaker 5: You know.
[1:20:32] Speaker 1: But also like she's with the CIA, does the CIA?
[1:20:37] Speaker 1: The CIA and the FBI are different agencies, but I
[1:20:40] Speaker 1: think at post nine to eleven they started working together more. Yeah,
[1:20:43] Speaker 1: but like why is he the first person she calls
[1:20:46] Speaker 1: when she kills these two people?
[1:20:47] Speaker 3: Why does she call Porter?
[1:20:48] Speaker 2: I bet they've already been working together because she's working
[1:20:51] Speaker 2: with a secret, like she's trying to get she was
[1:20:55] Speaker 2: the informant, she was helping everyone. You're right, the fbiica
[1:20:58] Speaker 2: thing of it.
[1:20:59] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's but she has kind of an informant
[1:21:01] Speaker 1: even though she works for the CIA. But let's get
[1:21:03] Speaker 1: into the true crime because it's very interesting. So a
[1:21:13] Speaker 1: lot of the things like listed, Like obviously we talked
[1:21:16] Speaker 1: about the Los Zetas, uh, you know, very big, violent, typical,
[1:21:21] Speaker 1: horrible drug cartel out of Mexico that started fracturing in
[1:21:25] Speaker 1: like the mid twenty tens and by twenty fifteen had
[1:21:29] Speaker 1: mostly just turned into like splinter groups. Like there's some
[1:21:32] Speaker 1: groups that are called like the old school Zetas, but
[1:21:34] Speaker 1: like they're now part of other groups and some of
[1:21:37] Speaker 1: these groups that.
[1:21:39] Speaker 2: They summarize my brain, like Cato, I was like the
[1:21:42] Speaker 2: Zetas because I go to Greek life with that, like
[1:21:44] Speaker 2: I find yeah, it means other things.
[1:21:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Los Zetas, but they some of
[1:21:49] Speaker 1: their small offshoots apparently still cause a lot of violence
[1:21:52] Speaker 1: in certain parts of Mexico even today, but they're just
[1:21:54] Speaker 1: not the once powerful, huge gang that they were. A
[1:21:57] Speaker 1: couple other things that are listed in like the wiki
[1:22:02] Speaker 1: and other places is like that. These are kind of
[1:22:04] Speaker 1: based on some of these uh failed projects that we
[1:22:09] Speaker 1: had in the CIA against Cuba in the sixties. So
[1:22:13] Speaker 1: there's Operation Mongoose and Operation north Woods. Operation Mongoose was
[1:22:18] Speaker 1: the Cuban Project was a campaign carried out by the
[1:22:21] Speaker 1: CIA in Cuba.
[1:22:22] Speaker 3: It was authorized by JFK.
[1:22:24] Speaker 1: It went into effect after the failed Bay of Pigs invasion,
[1:22:27] Speaker 1: and the goal was to remove the Cuban government, which
[1:22:30] Speaker 1: was like Fidel Castro from power. Terrorist activities were going
[1:22:34] Speaker 1: to be carried out by agents who were armed, and
[1:22:36] Speaker 1: it was going to be they were going to be armed,
[1:22:38] Speaker 1: organized and funded by the CIA, and then they attacked.
[1:22:41] Speaker 1: Contributed to the Soviet decision to put missiles in Cuba,
[1:22:44] Speaker 1: which led to the Cuban Missile Crisis. Most of the
[1:22:47] Speaker 1: goals of this operation were not achieved. It was shut
[1:22:49] Speaker 1: down in nineteen sixty two. In nineteen sixty two, later
[1:22:51] Speaker 1: in the year. Operation north Woods is proposed as a
[1:22:54] Speaker 1: false flag operation run by the CIA to commit terrorist
[1:22:57] Speaker 1: acts against US military and make it look like Cuba
[1:23:01] Speaker 1: to justify going to war with them. But there were
[1:23:04] Speaker 1: all these fake plans, Yeah, there were all these plans
[1:23:07] Speaker 1: that included a fake shooting down of a US Air
[1:23:10] Speaker 1: Force plane off the coast of Cuba, possible assassination of
[1:23:14] Speaker 1: Cuban immigrants, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas,
[1:23:18] Speaker 1: exploding a US ship, and orchestrating terrorism in US cities.
[1:23:21] Speaker 1: This whole plan ended up getting rejected by JFK. But
[1:23:24] Speaker 1: how fucking timely is this? This is like shit that's
[1:23:26] Speaker 1: going on with this Venezuela thing. I mean, like blowing
[1:23:29] Speaker 1: up these boats and saying all of this stuff is
[1:23:31] Speaker 1: about drugs and terrorism and this and that, and it's
[1:23:34] Speaker 1: the oil.
[1:23:35] Speaker 2: It's like the it's the fact that the people that
[1:23:38] Speaker 2: have been alive for this happening for decades are still
[1:23:41] Speaker 2: falling for it again.
[1:23:43] Speaker 3: Yeah, Like that's what I don't understand.
[1:23:45] Speaker 1: The people that are voting for this were alive during
[1:23:47] Speaker 1: the Cuban missile crisis.
[1:23:49] Speaker 2: Yeah, psycho, But I also don't fully know what's going on.
[1:23:53] Speaker 2: I really can't learn a new thing. I can't. I
[1:23:55] Speaker 2: just did more shifts. I just signed up for more
[1:23:58] Speaker 2: shifts at the food bank. I'm like, all right, yeah,
[1:24:00] Speaker 2: I don't know what else I don't know. That's like,
[1:24:02] Speaker 2: that's because I can't learn a new thing. I really can't.
[1:24:05] Speaker 2: It's probably gonna affect all of us hugely. I just
[1:24:07] Speaker 2: don't know why anyone would trust anything like, because then
[1:24:10] Speaker 2: I know the guy is bad. It's not like the
[1:24:12] Speaker 2: Venezuelan people liked him. But it doesn't mean that I
[1:24:14] Speaker 2: trust what this guy is doing. You know what I
[1:24:15] Speaker 2: mean exactly. I just can't get involved.
[1:24:18] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:24:19] Speaker 1: No, we don't have a great history of we don't
[1:24:21] Speaker 1: have a great history of taking down dictators in these
[1:24:23] Speaker 1: other countries and then helping them afterwards. We believe them
[1:24:27] Speaker 1: pretty fucked after So it's my friend is Venezuela, and
[1:24:31] Speaker 1: she's been telling me a lot of like the stuff,
[1:24:33] Speaker 1: and they obviously want uh I think Machado is her name.
[1:24:38] Speaker 3: They want her to be the next person.
[1:24:39] Speaker 1: But there's this other guy that they might put in,
[1:24:41] Speaker 1: this other woman that they might put in, who.
[1:24:43] Speaker 3: Danger right as.
[1:24:46] Speaker 2: A woman, that was a danger let's not do a
[1:24:50] Speaker 2: Venezuela RecA. Yeah, we don't need to know.
[1:24:52] Speaker 1: But Delca Rodriguez is the acting president of Venezuela, and
[1:24:55] Speaker 1: Venezuelan people do not want her, and she is apparently
[1:24:58] Speaker 1: just as bad as the other guy.
[1:25:00] Speaker 3: She is bad.
[1:25:01] Speaker 1: The other woman that they want in is the woman
[1:25:02] Speaker 1: who won the Peace Prize, the Nobel Peace Prize over
[1:25:05] Speaker 1: Donald Trump and had to dedicate it to him to
[1:25:08] Speaker 1: try to avoid something like this happening.
[1:25:10] Speaker 3: And she and he hates her because she didn't just
[1:25:13] Speaker 3: give him the Nobel Peace Price.
[1:25:15] Speaker 1: I don't know, we live in a cartoon. I don't
[1:25:16] Speaker 1: know what to tell you, Okay, So let's get back
[1:25:19] Speaker 1: to this case. So the case that was listed as
[1:25:21] Speaker 1: this being based on is the Rachel Hoffman case. And
[1:25:26] Speaker 1: I have never heard of this, and it's so fucking
[1:25:29] Speaker 1: tragic and interesting and it's not it's not like total
[1:25:34] Speaker 1: A to B with the episode or like A to
[1:25:36] Speaker 1: A with episode, but it's it's interesting, so I'll get
[1:25:39] Speaker 1: into it. So Rachel Hoffman was a senior at Florida
[1:25:43] Speaker 1: State University in Tallahassee in February of two thousand and seven.
[1:25:47] Speaker 1: And this girl is like middle class. She's an only child.
[1:25:52] Speaker 1: She loves going to music festivals, she likes to party.
[1:25:55] Speaker 1: She's like just a cool girl. She has like a
[1:25:57] Speaker 1: fake Facebook page for her cat where she like says
[1:26:00] Speaker 1: all the bands that the cat likes and stuff.
[1:26:02] Speaker 5: You know.
[1:26:03] Speaker 1: It's like she's like just a cool, everyday girl.
[1:26:07] Speaker 3: And she gets.
[1:26:08] Speaker 2: There isn't a more regular everyday girl named like Rachel Hoffman.
[1:26:11] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like regular everyday girl.
[1:26:16] Speaker 1: And she gets caught speeding and at a traffic stop,
[1:26:19] Speaker 1: she gets found with a little less than an ounce
[1:26:22] Speaker 1: of weed in her car, and she had to do
[1:26:25] Speaker 1: a substance abuse program with drug testing, and then after
[1:26:29] Speaker 1: she failed to show up for a drug test one
[1:26:31] Speaker 1: of her drug tests, she did spend three days in jail.
[1:26:34] Speaker 1: Cut to a year later. It's April seventeenth, two thousand
[1:26:37] Speaker 1: and eight. Tallahassee police respond to a complaint. Now she's graduated.
[1:26:41] Speaker 1: At this point, she's graduated from college and they're responding
[1:26:45] Speaker 1: to a complaint about the.
[1:26:46] Speaker 3: Smell of marijuana at her apartment.
[1:26:47] Speaker 1: And the complainant was probably some old ass lady was like,
[1:26:51] Speaker 1: and I think she might be selling drugs too, So
[1:26:54] Speaker 1: they go to cops go to her apartment and ask
[1:26:56] Speaker 1: her if she has any illegal substances, and she says yes,
[1:27:00] Speaker 1: and they and she lets them search her place. I
[1:27:03] Speaker 1: wish she didn't do that, but you know, I'm not
[1:27:06] Speaker 1: gonna victim Wiam. At this point, they find a little
[1:27:10] Speaker 1: over five ounces of weed and several ecstasy and valiant
[1:27:14] Speaker 1: pills in her couch cushions. Not like he's just like
[1:27:17] Speaker 1: a fun cool girl.
[1:27:18] Speaker 3: I can't believe. What year is this? What year is this?
[1:27:21] Speaker 3: Two thousand and eight?
[1:27:22] Speaker 6: Dude?
[1:27:22] Speaker 3: How is we How is that? Are you kidding me? Yes?
[1:27:26] Speaker 3: This is like yeah.
[1:27:28] Speaker 1: So they so they find these ecstasy and valiant pills
[1:27:32] Speaker 1: in her couch cushions. It's not even like a sellable amount,
[1:27:35] Speaker 1: you know what I mean, it's like just possession. So
[1:27:39] Speaker 1: facing felony charges of possession of cannabis with intent to
[1:27:42] Speaker 1: sell and quote unquote maintaining a drug house.
[1:27:46] Speaker 3: I don't know what that means.
[1:27:47] Speaker 1: But Officer Ryan Pender tells her, you know, plus you
[1:27:52] Speaker 1: have this record, you're already on like probation for your
[1:27:54] Speaker 1: your that last thing that happened a year ago. You
[1:27:57] Speaker 1: could help yourself a lot if you give quote unquote
[1:28:01] Speaker 1: substantial assistance to the narcotics team. So she's panicked, and
[1:28:06] Speaker 1: the cops lead her to believe that the charges could
[1:28:09] Speaker 1: be reduced and possibly even dropped all together. And they
[1:28:12] Speaker 1: ask her at first, she agrees her.
[1:28:16] Speaker 2: Parents get her alone. Did we not learn that she
[1:28:18] Speaker 2: was upper middle class? Where is the lawyer? Where are
[1:28:21] Speaker 2: her parents? What is going on?
[1:28:23] Speaker 3: This is all part of a whole system that I'm
[1:28:25] Speaker 3: going to get into.
[1:28:25] Speaker 1: Okay, So they ask her to turn on other weed dealers,
[1:28:30] Speaker 1: and she says no, like she's like, no, I'm not
[1:28:32] Speaker 1: selling on I'm not turning on people, because this is
[1:28:34] Speaker 1: just a weed girl. This is just like a girl
[1:28:36] Speaker 1: who does who smokes weed. Right, So then they pressure
[1:28:40] Speaker 1: her more to become an informant to avoid more charges,
[1:28:43] Speaker 1: and she agrees. And then and so she agrees to
[1:28:46] Speaker 1: go do something else, but will not turn in her
[1:28:48] Speaker 1: own drug dealers.
[1:28:49] Speaker 3: Okay.
[1:28:50] Speaker 1: So a few weeks later, it's May seventh, two thousand
[1:28:52] Speaker 1: and eight, they send her out on I'm like a
[1:28:56] Speaker 1: mission that is way above her weight class. Okay, it's
[1:28:59] Speaker 1: the huge drug buy all right. This girl has never
[1:29:03] Speaker 1: dealt with hard drugs, she has never.
[1:29:05] Speaker 2: Fired out that and they fucking know that, they know
[1:29:08] Speaker 2: she's not a heart and criminal. They know she's not
[1:29:10] Speaker 2: deep and she they know she's a recreational user, young
[1:29:13] Speaker 2: person Like this is so fucked up to take someone
[1:29:16] Speaker 2: and put them in danger. It reminds me of the
[1:29:17] Speaker 2: case of like the teen in Southern California, though, like
[1:29:20] Speaker 2: they were.
[1:29:21] Speaker 3: Used the using these citizens like this.
[1:29:24] Speaker 1: Yeah, and to be honest, I'm gonna get into it later,
[1:29:26] Speaker 1: but California is one of the only states that has
[1:29:29] Speaker 1: protections for informants.
[1:29:31] Speaker 3: So let's let me.
[1:29:32] Speaker 1: Okay, So she's never fired a gun, she's not into
[1:29:36] Speaker 1: hard drugs. They send her to me two convicted felons.
[1:29:40] Speaker 3: I can't, I can't, I can't.
[1:29:41] Speaker 2: This is reading like a movie like the SVU, Like
[1:29:45] Speaker 2: this case is insane.
[1:29:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, they send her to me two convicted felons, danelo
[1:29:50] Speaker 1: Are Bradshaw, age twenty three, and Andrea Jabbar Green who
[1:29:55] Speaker 1: goes by Dre age twenty five, and at this quiet
[1:29:59] Speaker 1: part called forest Meadows. Okay, they give her thirteen thousand
[1:30:03] Speaker 1: dollars in cash in marked bills so that she can
[1:30:06] Speaker 1: buy marked me marked means, like you know how they
[1:30:09] Speaker 1: always go, I wanted an unmarked bills marked means. These
[1:30:12] Speaker 1: are marked in a way that you can find out
[1:30:14] Speaker 1: where if they spend it, they'll find out where it
[1:30:15] Speaker 1: came from. Oh okay, police will like quietly mark it
[1:30:19] Speaker 1: somehow invisible marketing.
[1:30:20] Speaker 2: Flu though of the co Like is that, like, do
[1:30:22] Speaker 2: they put her in danger with that? I do you
[1:30:24] Speaker 2: know things market?
[1:30:24] Speaker 1: No?
[1:30:24] Speaker 3: No, no, because I don't think they could.
[1:30:27] Speaker 1: I think that they know the most regular drug dealers, Like,
[1:30:29] Speaker 1: don't know what that like. And I'm sure it's I'm
[1:30:31] Speaker 1: sure it's literally like a black light type.
[1:30:34] Speaker 3: Of invisible marking at this point.
[1:30:36] Speaker 1: But the purpose of the thirteen K and cash is
[1:30:39] Speaker 1: to buy two point five two and a half ounces
[1:30:42] Speaker 1: of coke fifteen hundred pills of ecstasy. They found a
[1:30:46] Speaker 1: bunch of ecstasy in her couch cushions, a few pills
[1:30:49] Speaker 1: of it. She's buying fifteen hundred pills of ecstasy and
[1:30:52] Speaker 1: a semi automatic handgun alone by herself, So she goes
[1:30:58] Speaker 1: to the She texts her boyfriend at six thirty four
[1:31:02] Speaker 1: pm and goes, I just got wired up. Wish me luck,
[1:31:05] Speaker 1: I'm on my way. He writes, good luck, babe, Call
[1:31:08] Speaker 1: me and let me know what's up. She writes, it's
[1:31:10] Speaker 1: about to go down. Okay, six thirty four. But she's
[1:31:14] Speaker 1: acting casual and natural because she said she knows there's
[1:31:18] Speaker 1: nineteen cops tracking her and there's a deea surveillance plane
[1:31:22] Speaker 1: in the sky circling above her, but only two cops
[1:31:26] Speaker 1: apparently were on the ground nearby her, which is which
[1:31:30] Speaker 1: is apparently a violation of protocol. But after she shows
[1:31:34] Speaker 1: up at they agreed upon location, the dealers are like,
[1:31:37] Speaker 1: we're going to change the location.
[1:31:38] Speaker 3: Follow us.
[1:31:40] Speaker 1: The police tried to tell her to not follow to
[1:31:42] Speaker 1: a second location, but they said technical issues got in
[1:31:45] Speaker 1: the way and she never got the message. Within minutes,
[1:31:48] Speaker 1: they had lost contact with her. It turns out the
[1:31:51] Speaker 1: wire they had installed on her had been installed in correctly.
[1:31:53] Speaker 1: They lost track of her. And this is two thousand
[1:31:55] Speaker 1: and eight. This is not like the eighties or the
[1:31:57] Speaker 1: nineties where we're using like old school wires, Like do
[1:32:00] Speaker 1: we not have GPS trackers at this point at all?
[1:32:04] Speaker 3: Maybe my levels of the government.
[1:32:06] Speaker 2: Too dark, but I'm like, are these just a bunch
[1:32:09] Speaker 2: of killers that did this on purpose? Like they liked
[1:32:13] Speaker 2: throwing young girls with no experience to hardened criminals buying
[1:32:16] Speaker 2: guns in the dark at a park.
[1:32:19] Speaker 3: What the fuck? I know?
[1:32:20] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so they they she apparently got into a
[1:32:27] Speaker 1: BMW with the suspects, which I mean she got into
[1:32:33] Speaker 1: their stolen BMW, and then they lost track of her.
[1:32:38] Speaker 1: They just totally lose track of her. Within minutes, they
[1:32:40] Speaker 1: lose track of her. They the cops go to her
[1:32:43] Speaker 1: boyfriend's house, thinking that maybe she took off with the money.
[1:32:47] Speaker 4: Uh.
[1:32:47] Speaker 1: He obviously has no idea where she is. She's missing
[1:32:50] Speaker 1: for two days. Two days later, they find her body
[1:32:53] Speaker 1: in Perry, Florida, which is a small town about fifty
[1:32:56] Speaker 1: miles southeast of Tallahassee. She had been shot five times
[1:33:00] Speaker 1: in the chest and head with the gun the cops
[1:33:02] Speaker 1: sent her to buy, and they had like left her
[1:33:06] Speaker 1: in this like dried up ditch with her own grateful
[1:33:08] Speaker 1: dead sweatshirt covering her. It's just like another piece of
[1:33:11] Speaker 1: like who this girl was.
[1:33:12] Speaker 3: She was just.
[1:33:13] Speaker 1: Like liked the dead and smoking weed and going to
[1:33:15] Speaker 1: music festivals and shit, you know. And it turns out
[1:33:20] Speaker 1: the deal was basically like never gonna happen. Green one
[1:33:25] Speaker 1: of the guys was planning to give Hoffman a bag
[1:33:28] Speaker 1: of aspirin and take off with the money, like he
[1:33:31] Speaker 1: was planning to just but later Green's wife told the
[1:33:34] Speaker 1: cops that that night, he confessed to her on the
[1:33:37] Speaker 1: phone that they found a wire in her purse and
[1:33:39] Speaker 1: they killed her, like right away, like they killed her.
[1:33:42] Speaker 1: They killed her within minutes of them losing track of her.
[1:33:46] Speaker 1: So uh, I mean okay. So shortly after her body
[1:33:51] Speaker 1: was found, there was a press conference where Officer David
[1:33:54] Speaker 1: McCraney told the crowd, quote, we had established protocols in
[1:33:57] Speaker 1: place to ensure her at some point during the investigation,
[1:34:02] Speaker 1: she chose not to follow the instructions. She met Green
[1:34:04] Speaker 1: and Bradshaw on her own. That meeting ultimately resulted in
[1:34:07] Speaker 1: her murder end quote.
[1:34:09] Speaker 3: And this is the fuck.
[1:34:10] Speaker 2: They're not sorry, they don't care, and they're supposed to
[1:34:13] Speaker 2: ensure the safety.
[1:34:14] Speaker 3: Like they are such a farce. They're such a and
[1:34:17] Speaker 3: like farce.
[1:34:18] Speaker 1: Like her parents had been to the police station and
[1:34:20] Speaker 1: no one had told them yet that she was even
[1:34:22] Speaker 1: an informant. They're finding out about it on TV. Okay,
[1:34:26] Speaker 1: And this is when her family starts noticing that the
[1:34:29] Speaker 1: police department is like trying to discredit her and like
[1:34:32] Speaker 1: what they call a smear campaign against Rachel. They're trying
[1:34:34] Speaker 1: to make her out to be this big drug dealer. Okay.
[1:34:37] Speaker 1: She had been working for the Tallahassee PD at the
[1:34:39] Speaker 1: time of her of this deal for three weeks. For
[1:34:43] Speaker 1: a total of three weeks, she was known as c. I.
[1:34:45] Speaker 1: Hoffman or Confidential Informant Number one one two nine. The
[1:34:48] Speaker 1: New Yorker did this really interesting article that's one of
[1:34:51] Speaker 1: my sources, called The Throwaways, about criminal informants, and it
[1:34:54] Speaker 1: focuses on Rachel's story, and uh, they call informants in
[1:34:59] Speaker 1: this article the foot soldiers in the government's war on drugs.
[1:35:02] Speaker 1: So they reported, I know, they reported that in twenty twelve,
[1:35:08] Speaker 1: I'll do drugs. Yeah, I mean literally, My dad, who's
[1:35:12] Speaker 1: like a Republican, has literally has always said I don't
[1:35:15] Speaker 1: really believe in the war on drugs. He's like, you
[1:35:17] Speaker 1: should let people do what they want to do, Like
[1:35:18] Speaker 1: if people want to, we should educate people, and we
[1:35:20] Speaker 1: should help people that are addicted or whatever. But like
[1:35:23] Speaker 1: we this is like an unstoppable thing, like you know,
[1:35:27] Speaker 1: but it's a more nuanced argument than that. But it's
[1:35:30] Speaker 1: like it's kind of how I feel about the war
[1:35:33] Speaker 1: on drugs, Like I don't really think black tar heroines
[1:35:35] Speaker 1: should be like flooding the strips.
[1:35:37] Speaker 2: But the life was worth more than maybe catching evidence
[1:35:44] Speaker 2: of pill and wheat, what the fuck?
[1:35:46] Speaker 3: You can't even imagine.
[1:35:47] Speaker 1: It's not even like these two guys don't even seem
[1:35:50] Speaker 1: like they're that big time. Two and a half ounces
[1:35:51] Speaker 1: of coke, some ecstasy, which is like a party drug,
[1:35:55] Speaker 1: and then the gun I get. But like, this is
[1:35:58] Speaker 1: not a massive arms deal, this is not a cartel.
[1:36:01] Speaker 1: Like obviously the SVU of this all has this on
[1:36:04] Speaker 1: a much bigger scale. They've added now geopolitical, They've added
[1:36:08] Speaker 1: the CIA as a layer. They've added, these guys are
[1:36:11] Speaker 1: huge drug dealers with teddy bears full of heroin. In
[1:36:14] Speaker 1: a lot of these cases, like in another parent that
[1:36:17] Speaker 1: they interviewed for this New Yorker article was like I
[1:36:19] Speaker 1: lost my son over two little bags of coke, Like
[1:36:22] Speaker 1: her son died over like barely anything. And again it's like, yeah,
[1:36:27] Speaker 1: the war on drugs, but like, these are people's lives.
[1:36:30] Speaker 1: So in twenty twelve, The New Yorker reported that eighty
[1:36:34] Speaker 1: percent of drug busts involved CIS. That that's what some
[1:36:37] Speaker 1: estimates say, eighty percent involve CIS in some way. Alexandra Natopoff,
[1:36:43] Speaker 1: who was a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles,
[1:36:46] Speaker 1: and a leading expert on informants told The New Yorker, quote.
[1:36:50] Speaker 3: The system makes it cheap and easy to.
[1:36:51] Speaker 1: Use informants as opposed to other, less risky but more
[1:36:54] Speaker 1: cumbersome approaches. There are fewer procedures in place and fewer
[1:36:57] Speaker 1: institutional checks on their use end quote. So using informants
[1:37:02] Speaker 1: is shady as hell at this point in time. There's
[1:37:05] Speaker 1: no paperwork, there's no oversight. It's totally secret. There's no training, like,
[1:37:10] Speaker 1: there's nothing. Some of the informants are kids as young
[1:37:13] Speaker 1: as fourteen and fifteen.
[1:37:15] Speaker 3: Some are fucked up on drugs.
[1:37:17] Speaker 1: Some people are like literal drug addicts and are like
[1:37:20] Speaker 1: taking these deals to become informants, in with it when
[1:37:24] Speaker 1: their minds are incapacitated, and the copin no. Yeah, Rachel
[1:37:29] Speaker 1: Hoffman was in a state mandated treatment program, the one
[1:37:33] Speaker 1: from her first arress, which should have prohibited her from
[1:37:36] Speaker 1: being around any illegal drugs. So it's really weird that
[1:37:39] Speaker 1: the cops were like, yeah, here, your job is to
[1:37:42] Speaker 1: go pick up a bunch of fucking drugs.
[1:37:43] Speaker 3: Like people are saying, of course they saw the why.
[1:37:47] Speaker 3: I can't believe it.
[1:37:49] Speaker 1: I know I know, it's like so fucking tragic, and
[1:37:53] Speaker 1: her parents like are like she's their only child. That
[1:37:56] Speaker 1: like reminds me of the of Ellen Greenberg. But a
[1:37:58] Speaker 1: lot of these times the cis also believe the cops
[1:38:04] Speaker 1: about what Sometimes the cops are like saying shit like
[1:38:06] Speaker 1: we'll make this all go away and it's not even true,
[1:38:09] Speaker 1: like it'll lessen their sentence, but they still end up
[1:38:11] Speaker 1: getting in trouble, and so they believe sometimes these lies
[1:38:14] Speaker 1: that the cops tell them, and they're treated as quote
[1:38:18] Speaker 1: disposable ponds of the criminal justice system, is what the
[1:38:20] Speaker 1: article says. And this is all a result of the
[1:38:23] Speaker 1: war on drugs. At this point, prisons are overcrowded, people
[1:38:27] Speaker 1: are serving longer sentences for dealing drugs than.
[1:38:29] Speaker 3: For murder in a lot of cases.
[1:38:31] Speaker 1: This is all stemming from the war on drugs in
[1:38:33] Speaker 1: like the eighties and nineties that started, and we're doing
[1:38:37] Speaker 1: three strikes rules and there's basically there are not enough
[1:38:41] Speaker 1: cops to go undercover to do this. There are not
[1:38:43] Speaker 1: enough cops to facilitate all of these drug busts. Not
[1:38:46] Speaker 1: to mention, they're not prioritizing. It doesn't feel like they're
[1:38:49] Speaker 1: prioritizing in any way larger dealers, Like let's get why
[1:38:53] Speaker 1: don't you cut off the head of the snake, you
[1:38:55] Speaker 1: know what I mean? When you get to cartels, get
[1:38:57] Speaker 1: to huge shipping conglomerates that are allowed this stuff in
[1:39:01] Speaker 1: rather than like street dealers that are maybe moving quite
[1:39:06] Speaker 1: a big amount, but not they're not responsible for like
[1:39:09] Speaker 1: the huge Like they're not the suppliers, you know what
[1:39:12] Speaker 1: I mean. Like it just feels like you're not these
[1:39:14] Speaker 1: are what's the word I'm looking for. It's like they're
[1:39:18] Speaker 1: just inconstant. They're not as consequential like these people that
[1:39:22] Speaker 1: they're going after, these drug dealers. And Rachel's dad was
[1:39:26] Speaker 1: asking a lot of the questions that you were asking.
[1:39:27] Speaker 1: Why was Rachel not given access to a lawyer before
[1:39:30] Speaker 1: entering into this deal with them?
[1:39:31] Speaker 3: Why was she given no training?
[1:39:33] Speaker 1: She's never fired a gun, and so they started working
[1:39:37] Speaker 1: on Rachel's law.
[1:39:38] Speaker 2: She probably didn't even look like someone that like used guns.
[1:39:43] Speaker 3: You know, they probably immediately were.
[1:39:44] Speaker 1: Like, WHOA, she's like she's like a sweet, redheaded girl
[1:39:49] Speaker 1: who looks like she likes to have fun and go
[1:39:52] Speaker 1: to college and was like super close with her parents
[1:39:56] Speaker 1: and like like they're This article has excerpts of this
[1:40:00] Speaker 1: long letter she wrote her dad when she moved to college.
[1:40:02] Speaker 1: They were like close and She's all, don't worry about me, dad,
[1:40:05] Speaker 1: I can take care of myself. And like it's just
[1:40:07] Speaker 1: so fucking sad. But like she was probably like, I'm
[1:40:10] Speaker 1: not even gonna involve my parents. I'm just gonna do
[1:40:12] Speaker 1: this thing that they're asking me to do, fix it
[1:40:15] Speaker 1: and make it go away, you know. Like and because
[1:40:18] Speaker 1: that's what they're doing. They're praying on people who are
[1:40:20] Speaker 1: in desperate times. And we've seen them do it on
[1:40:22] Speaker 1: SBU a million times. But we like to think that
[1:40:25] Speaker 1: they're actually delivering on their promises in our show that
[1:40:27] Speaker 1: is about in our fake fantasy show that we acknowledge
[1:40:30] Speaker 1: as fake. Right, So, her parents they started working her
[1:40:34] Speaker 1: parents and they're divorced. Her parents they divorced when she
[1:40:37] Speaker 1: was young, but they come together to work on Rachel's law. Meanwhile,
[1:40:40] Speaker 1: her murderers have both been found guilty and sentenced to life.
[1:40:44] Speaker 1: But at their grand jury trial, not only were they
[1:40:47] Speaker 1: indicted at the grand jury trial, but the jury tore
[1:40:50] Speaker 1: into the Tallahassee pdy. They released a statement saying, quote
[1:40:54] Speaker 1: letting a young immature woman get into a car by
[1:40:57] Speaker 1: herself with thirteen thousand dollars to go off and two
[1:41:00] Speaker 1: convicted felons that they knew were bringing at least one
[1:41:03] Speaker 1: firearm with them was an unconscionable decision that costmus Hoffman
[1:41:08] Speaker 1: her life. Less than fifteen minutes after she drove away
[1:41:10] Speaker 1: from the offices of the Tallahassee Police Department. She drove
[1:41:13] Speaker 1: out of the side of the officers, who assured her
[1:41:15] Speaker 1: that they would be right on top of her, watching
[1:41:17] Speaker 1: and listening the whole time. She cried out for help
[1:41:19] Speaker 1: as she was shot and killed and nobody was there
[1:41:21] Speaker 1: to hear her. Yes, and it's like, well, it's it's
[1:41:28] Speaker 1: not any consolation. But at this point at least the
[1:41:31] Speaker 1: cops do start to begin to it's any damn mistakes.
[1:41:34] Speaker 2: It's that their first thing is how do we cover
[1:41:37] Speaker 2: our asses?
[1:41:38] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[1:41:39] Speaker 2: Oh, she was a fucking like immediate always they are
[1:41:43] Speaker 2: the worst liars of any profession, scum. Like their first
[1:41:48] Speaker 2: thought isn't like we just killed like a young girl
[1:41:52] Speaker 2: and didn't have her back. It's immediately like, ahay was
[1:41:54] Speaker 2: on her. She didn't right do the right thing. We
[1:41:57] Speaker 2: gave her the right directions. It's like disgusting.
[1:42:00] Speaker 1: Yeah, they're the chief of the police chief of Tallahassee
[1:42:04] Speaker 1: had gone on a press conference saying, I believe she's
[1:42:07] Speaker 1: a criminal, calling her a criminal after she died. And
[1:42:12] Speaker 1: finally they start to admit that they've made some mistakes,
[1:42:14] Speaker 1: and IAB investigation revealed that officers had committed at least
[1:42:17] Speaker 1: twenty one violations of nine separate policies in Hoffman's case.
[1:42:21] Speaker 3: And this is one case. Imagine what they're doing all
[1:42:24] Speaker 3: the time.
[1:42:25] Speaker 1: The police chief, Dennis Jones, who the one who had
[1:42:28] Speaker 1: previously called her a criminal to the press, now expressed
[1:42:30] Speaker 1: remorse and admitted it was wrong to blame the victim.
[1:42:33] Speaker 1: So the parents team up with these two this lawyer
[1:42:35] Speaker 1: and these two Republican lawmakers, and they sponsor Rachel's law,
[1:42:39] Speaker 1: but obviously police unions and all these people lobby against it.
[1:42:42] Speaker 1: They're like they're they're saying, letting them have lawyers would
[1:42:45] Speaker 1: make it impossible to flip them. Raising the age would
[1:42:48] Speaker 1: mean that we're just letting we're turning a blind eye
[1:42:51] Speaker 1: to underage drug use. They argue that this would ruin
[1:42:54] Speaker 1: law enforcement and their ability to go after drug dealers
[1:42:57] Speaker 1: like They're basically like, if you don't let us use
[1:42:59] Speaker 1: cis like it, we can't even do law enforcement. Eventually,
[1:43:02] Speaker 1: a compromise bill is reached and a version of the
[1:43:05] Speaker 1: bill without the right to legal counsel and without the
[1:43:07] Speaker 1: provisions excluding juveniles is presented. But the bill is still
[1:43:12] Speaker 1: very important in groundbreaking and it offers the first regulations
[1:43:15] Speaker 1: and rights for informants in the state of Florida, and
[1:43:18] Speaker 1: at this point I think only California has some small
[1:43:21] Speaker 1: protections against for informants. Officers who supervised informants were now
[1:43:26] Speaker 1: required to undergo special training. They had to take into
[1:43:29] Speaker 1: account a new recruits age and emotional state, and the
[1:43:32] Speaker 1: level of risk involved in a given operation, and in
[1:43:34] Speaker 1: all operations involving CI's safety had to be the first priority.
[1:43:38] Speaker 1: This was passed one year on the one year anniversary
[1:43:41] Speaker 1: of her murder on May seven, two thousand and nine,
[1:43:43] Speaker 1: so they got some shit done to have legislation done
[1:43:46] Speaker 1: in a year. California had some legislation, as I mentioned,
[1:43:50] Speaker 1: after Rachel's Law was passed. North Dakota passed Al Andrews Law.
[1:43:53] Speaker 1: Minnesota had Matthew's Law, which are based on different informants
[1:43:57] Speaker 1: who were murdered, you know, and early year in two
[1:44:00] Speaker 1: thousand and nine, her parents won two point six million
[1:44:02] Speaker 1: dollars settlement in a ronful death longsuit and lawsuit, and
[1:44:05] Speaker 1: they got a formal apology from the City of Tallahassee.
[1:44:09] Speaker 1: The officer running her operation, Ryan Pender, was the only
[1:44:12] Speaker 1: one fired, but eventually rehired as usual. But sort of
[1:44:16] Speaker 1: a funny part in a sad story is that Rachel's dad,
[1:44:20] Speaker 1: IRV Hoffmann, calls Pender every single year on the anniversary
[1:44:24] Speaker 1: of her death and leaves a message reminding him of
[1:44:26] Speaker 1: the anniversary and always goes call me back. And the
[1:44:29] Speaker 1: guy never has called him back, of course, and he
[1:44:31] Speaker 1: blames him fully for everything, as he should.
[1:44:33] Speaker 3: And that's the HAULMN back. That's the thing with these scum.
[1:44:36] Speaker 2: It's like you want to do the worst things and
[1:44:38] Speaker 2: then still have people be nice to you and act
[1:44:39] Speaker 2: like but no one likes us.
[1:44:41] Speaker 3: You're disgusting. Go fund yourselves.
[1:44:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really fucking tragic. The mom launched the Rachel
[1:44:47] Speaker 1: morning Star Foundation, which is an organization advocating for CI reform,
[1:44:50] Speaker 1: but I don't.
[1:44:51] Speaker 3: Think it's active anymore. The website doesn't work.
[1:44:53] Speaker 1: But you know, I'm glad that at least ten years ago,
[1:44:56] Speaker 1: thirteen years ago, people were talking about this, but I
[1:44:58] Speaker 1: bet you it's still bad.
[1:45:00] Speaker 2: Crazy thing all the time about our podcast is I
[1:45:03] Speaker 2: always feel like I've heard everything and I know everything,
[1:45:05] Speaker 2: and then I learn a new thing that I hate
[1:45:07] Speaker 2: about the police.
[1:45:08] Speaker 3: This foundation.
[1:45:09] Speaker 1: What they were doing is they were going to music
[1:45:11] Speaker 1: festivals and just telling kids, by the way, if you
[1:45:13] Speaker 1: get busted with drugs, they're going to try to turn
[1:45:15] Speaker 1: you into an informant. Don't do it, like you know,
[1:45:18] Speaker 1: that's what. That's what, because like kids don't know. They
[1:45:21] Speaker 1: just hear, oh my god, you're giving me a get
[1:45:22] Speaker 1: out of jail free card, and they take it.
[1:45:24] Speaker 3: Anyway.
[1:45:25] Speaker 1: We got a great guest, so stay tuned. Our guest
[1:45:35] Speaker 1: today is an actor known for roles in film like
[1:45:38] Speaker 1: The Black Stallion, Returns, Rumblefish, and Alive, But you know
[1:45:42] Speaker 1: him best as FBI agent Dean Porter and Olivia Benson's
[1:45:47] Speaker 1: makeout buddy. Please enjoy our chat with Vincent Spano. Oh
[1:45:52] Speaker 1: my gosh, I can't believe it's agent Dean Porter.
[1:45:56] Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Yeah, not in a trench.
[1:46:00] Speaker 5: He's still alive, still alive.
[1:46:04] Speaker 2: How does it feel to just enter a scene and
[1:46:06] Speaker 2: everyone be so upset that you're there.
[1:46:12] Speaker 3: Just ruin Svu's day.
[1:46:14] Speaker 5: I think, you know, Jonathan Green, he really he was
[1:46:19] Speaker 5: a big fan and a big fan of the character.
[1:46:22] Speaker 5: And I don't know why he wrote that last episode
[1:46:26] Speaker 5: the way he did. You know, he was looking forward
[1:46:29] Speaker 5: to having more episodes with my character. But that episode
[1:46:32] Speaker 5: kind of, you know, kind of spoiled it, you know.
[1:46:37] Speaker 2: Because you and Benson your like, there was a vibe,
[1:46:40] Speaker 2: you know, there was a flirt. You guys did make
[1:46:42] Speaker 2: out like it was a using situation, but you were
[1:46:45] Speaker 2: fucking them over. But it was exciting. It was an
[1:46:48] Speaker 2: exciting flirtation. Was that on purpose and written in? And
[1:46:51] Speaker 2: then of course how dare you you know, do that
[1:46:53] Speaker 2: to the department from the beginning?
[1:46:54] Speaker 5: Oh my god? Yeah? Yeah?
[1:46:57] Speaker 3: Was that a natural energy or did you guys know
[1:46:59] Speaker 3: you were suppose vibe?
[1:47:03] Speaker 5: She and I yeah, on the show.
[1:47:05] Speaker 3: Well, yeah, you know, it's one of those things.
[1:47:07] Speaker 5: You're hoping for, you know that there might be some
[1:47:12] Speaker 5: romantic chemistry. You know, Marishka and I knew each other
[1:47:16] Speaker 5: from Prince Street. Okay, did you know that?
[1:47:20] Speaker 3: No? Of course, is that acting school or no?
[1:47:25] Speaker 5: Prince Street was a show an NBC show. Yeah. We
[1:47:29] Speaker 5: did six episodes and we shot up in Toronto and
[1:47:36] Speaker 5: it was a terrific show. It got the best reviews
[1:47:41] Speaker 5: of its season, which was nineteen ninety seven.
[1:47:46] Speaker 6: Yeah, and.
[1:47:48] Speaker 5: What happened was we had we died a political death.
[1:47:53] Speaker 5: NBC was upset at Warner Brothers because they sold the
[1:47:57] Speaker 5: er rerun rights to tam Tea. I think, isn't that correct? Yeah,
[1:48:03] Speaker 5: they sold them, they just didn't sell them back to NBC.
[1:48:07] Speaker 5: We were the We were the We were the ones
[1:48:10] Speaker 5: that got our heads chopped off because it was kind
[1:48:13] Speaker 5: of like a you.
[1:48:14] Speaker 2: Know, a yeah, because I'm looking at this cast and
[1:48:17] Speaker 2: I'm looking at the premise and I'm in you know
[1:48:19] Speaker 2: what I mean?
[1:48:20] Speaker 5: I was, Oh, it was great, it was great. It
[1:48:22] Speaker 5: was It was myself, Marishka, Joe Morton.
[1:48:26] Speaker 3: Sam Rockwall, Uh, Sam, and Mark Margolis. It looks like.
[1:48:33] Speaker 5: I think, so, Yes, Sam had a nice had a
[1:48:35] Speaker 5: nice guest guest star.
[1:48:38] Speaker 1: So and you guys are New York City Police detectives.
[1:48:42] Speaker 3: So it's crazier cover. Then two years later, she.
[1:48:46] Speaker 1: Becomes the longest running detective of all time television history.
[1:48:51] Speaker 5: Well, you know that division, that undercover division was actually
[1:48:58] Speaker 5: on Hudson Street and they existed. They were real and
[1:49:02] Speaker 5: their stories were incredible. So we were very proud to
[1:49:06] Speaker 5: be a part of the show. And Marishka and I
[1:49:09] Speaker 5: had a romantic thing on that show, okay, you see, Yeah,
[1:49:14] Speaker 5: and we were just really good friends. So she did that, okay,
[1:49:21] Speaker 5: So they put on only two of the six episodes.
[1:49:24] Speaker 5: It was pathetic. We had the better audience and the
[1:49:29] Speaker 5: better reviews of any of the shows that came out
[1:49:32] Speaker 5: that season, but they just theyqued. We premiered in the
[1:49:38] Speaker 5: ER slot NBC ten o'clock I think Thursdays, and then
[1:49:42] Speaker 5: we were going to move to Wednesday ten o'clock, great slot.
[1:49:46] Speaker 5: You know, we were going to be on a stage.
[1:49:49] Speaker 5: We were going to come out of Toronto and be
[1:49:51] Speaker 5: on a stage right there next to the Er stage.
[1:49:54] Speaker 5: So we're going to be one of those, you know,
[1:49:57] Speaker 5: prestigious NBC shows. And they killed it. So what came
[1:50:03] Speaker 5: out of it was Marishka. They loved her. They put
[1:50:07] Speaker 5: her on ER. So she did a terrific recurring role
[1:50:13] Speaker 5: on R and from that SVU and then there was
[1:50:18] Speaker 5: never any looking back. So when I saw Marishka on
[1:50:24] Speaker 5: the show, it was a reunion. Yeah, and it felt
[1:50:29] Speaker 5: very comfortable for us to once again have a you know,
[1:50:33] Speaker 5: a romantic storyline, or at least the teasings of one.
[1:50:39] Speaker 3: Yeah, but it was exciting.
[1:50:40] Speaker 2: I mean, you know, because your character comes in with
[1:50:43] Speaker 2: like fuck us view, but then also you're like, ooh,
[1:50:47] Speaker 2: we like this romantic tension.
[1:50:50] Speaker 5: Just doing my job. In fact, in the last episode,
[1:50:55] Speaker 5: I said to her, we don't matter, you know, we
[1:50:58] Speaker 5: don't matter. What you and I feel or think doesn't matter. Yeah,
[1:51:02] Speaker 5: you know, And you could look at it like, well,
[1:51:06] Speaker 5: was I also a good guy? Because I was protecting
[1:51:10] Speaker 5: other agents that were good that would be exposed and
[1:51:14] Speaker 5: probably assassinated. So I've probably saved many lives. So here's
[1:51:21] Speaker 5: the bottom line. It's years since I've been on the show.
[1:51:25] Speaker 5: I believe that I could have changed. I believe that
[1:51:29] Speaker 5: I know different now. You know, maybe I got fed
[1:51:34] Speaker 5: up with what was going on.
[1:51:36] Speaker 2: Maybe she needs help from you next season, you know
[1:51:39] Speaker 2: what I mean. You never know when Dean Porter never
[1:51:41] Speaker 2: comes back.
[1:51:42] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they love setting her up with some blasts
[1:51:45] Speaker 1: from the past.
[1:51:45] Speaker 3: They do.
[1:51:47] Speaker 5: Well, I'll leave that in your hands. Because I loved
[1:51:52] Speaker 5: the show, I love doing it, and I would love
[1:51:56] Speaker 5: to be on it. Again if that was possible. And
[1:51:58] Speaker 5: I think that stories of redemption are always interesting, a
[1:52:03] Speaker 5: long journey towards actually finding who one's who one really
[1:52:09] Speaker 5: is and saying, Okay, this is who I am. I'm
[1:52:11] Speaker 5: not that yeah, and I want to do the right
[1:52:14] Speaker 5: thing and being relocated to New York and being a
[1:52:19] Speaker 5: part of that team. Sure.
[1:52:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, for how long Marishka is on
[1:52:26] Speaker 1: this show as Olivia Benson, she does not make out
[1:52:29] Speaker 1: with that many people, So you did have she really
[1:52:31] Speaker 1: only kisses like five people in the whole twenty seven
[1:52:35] Speaker 1: seasons maybe like maybe pretty nay, And that's being very yeah.
[1:52:42] Speaker 2: And some are undercover, you know what I mean, because
[1:52:44] Speaker 2: she has to yeah, kissing everybody?
[1:52:47] Speaker 5: Yeah, so you got to ask her who was her favorite?
[1:52:49] Speaker 3: Yeah, when we meet her, we had her. When we
[1:52:52] Speaker 3: got her, We're gonna be like so Vincent'spannel one to ten.
[1:52:55] Speaker 2: The Journey to Marishka. Do you remember your first episode infiltrated?
[1:53:02] Speaker 5: Yeah, I think we were we were trying to find somebody.
[1:53:06] Speaker 5: We're trying to find that girl, right.
[1:53:09] Speaker 1: It was eco terrorism and Marishka was under Benson was undercover.
[1:53:14] Speaker 5: Ye.
[1:53:16] Speaker 2: But then a guy gets found dead and they think
[1:53:19] Speaker 2: the environment people did it, but he was actually a pedophile,
[1:53:21] Speaker 2: and you have to find the girl, right, you have
[1:53:24] Speaker 2: to find that And.
[1:53:25] Speaker 5: One of the most frustrating the second episode was finding
[1:53:28] Speaker 5: the girl.
[1:53:28] Speaker 2: The first one No, no, you're right, No, the first
[1:53:30] Speaker 2: one infiltrated. That's all in one episode. It's like environmental undercover.
[1:53:36] Speaker 2: It's a pedophile factory guy dead, and then it's we
[1:53:40] Speaker 2: need to find the girl. And the mom from that
[1:53:43] Speaker 2: seventies shows in there and she's like the pedophile's wife.
[1:53:46] Speaker 3: It's a really.
[1:53:47] Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and then you you're you're there for like
[1:53:51] Speaker 2: her brother episode and that's pretty wild, and then you're
[1:53:55] Speaker 2: there for the ludicrous episode quickly, and then you're also there.
[1:53:59] Speaker 1: For you're in the episode where the girl has perfect pitch.
[1:54:02] Speaker 1: Isn't that savant?
[1:54:03] Speaker 3: Yeah? Savant? And what's that guy? Aid? And Quinn? Yeah,
[1:54:07] Speaker 3: he comes back.
[1:54:08] Speaker 1: He comes back and has a relationship with Olivia Benson,
[1:54:11] Speaker 1: but not as that guy, as a different character.
[1:54:14] Speaker 3: Aiden Quinn comes back.
[1:54:15] Speaker 5: Unbelievable. Yeah, how long did he have to wait to
[1:54:17] Speaker 5: do that? Oh?
[1:54:18] Speaker 1: I mean he came back in season like twenty four
[1:54:20] Speaker 1: or five to have.
[1:54:24] Speaker 5: Okay, okay, Aiden is a good guy. It was. It
[1:54:28] Speaker 5: was a very enjoyable working with him, that's for sure.
[1:54:31] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, you're a people people. You're just you're there
[1:54:35] Speaker 3: and you scoop people out.
[1:54:36] Speaker 5: It's fun, all right. So, I mean, I don't know
[1:54:39] Speaker 5: what more I could say about how much I love
[1:54:41] Speaker 5: the show and saying that I'd love to be back
[1:54:44] Speaker 5: on it.
[1:54:44] Speaker 3: Yeah, listen, we're here to help.
[1:54:48] Speaker 5: She came out here to LA to screen her documentary
[1:54:52] Speaker 5: such which is wonderful, and I hadn't seen it. I
[1:54:56] Speaker 5: kind of saved it for hopefully a good screening, and
[1:54:58] Speaker 5: I got the right one because she came out and
[1:55:01] Speaker 5: she did a Q and a after and we got
[1:55:03] Speaker 5: to say hi. So I was so proud of her.
[1:55:06] Speaker 5: I just thought that was just that was such a courageous,
[1:55:11] Speaker 5: you know, to dive back into the past and what
[1:55:16] Speaker 5: really hurts and then to share with the world a deep,
[1:55:20] Speaker 5: deep secret. It was really something. I was so proud
[1:55:24] Speaker 5: of her.
[1:55:24] Speaker 2: Yeah, was so beautiful and well done. I really liked
[1:55:28] Speaker 2: that documentary.
[1:55:29] Speaker 1: Way Vincent, do you remember so do you remember a
[1:55:31] Speaker 1: lot about this episode? Spooked Like, I'm wondering about how
[1:55:35] Speaker 1: it went down When you were shooting that guy who
[1:55:39] Speaker 1: had Marishka who had.
[1:55:42] Speaker 3: And you have to shoot him.
[1:55:43] Speaker 1: You shoot him from so far away in a way
[1:55:46] Speaker 1: that it feels like nobody would really do. But you
[1:55:49] Speaker 1: did need to keep that guy's mouth shut. How do
[1:55:53] Speaker 1: you remember shooting that?
[1:55:55] Speaker 5: Yeah? I think we were at Yeah.
[1:55:57] Speaker 3: You must have been like a little airport.
[1:55:59] Speaker 1: Maybe you guys went Westchester or something, because it feels
[1:56:01] Speaker 1: it didn't feel like were you or did you shoot
[1:56:03] Speaker 1: at JFK LaGuardia because you were supposed to be at
[1:56:06] Speaker 1: an airport.
[1:56:07] Speaker 3: But I didn't know.
[1:56:08] Speaker 5: Does that happen when you interview somebody who hasn't done
[1:56:11] Speaker 5: the show for so long, they don't remember that.
[1:56:13] Speaker 1: And we've talked to people from season one and they
[1:56:15] Speaker 1: don't remember a thing. So you don't worry about it.
[1:56:18] Speaker 1: If you don't remember something, it's not a big deal.
[1:56:21] Speaker 3: All the different vibess.
[1:56:22] Speaker 5: She was mad at me. I remember that she was
[1:56:24] Speaker 5: mad at me because Benson was mad at me, because
[1:56:28] Speaker 5: you know, it was a long.
[1:56:30] Speaker 3: If you missed, you could have just shot her well.
[1:56:32] Speaker 2: And then she questions her motivations to the cell phone
[1:56:35] Speaker 2: gun was wild, but she questions her motivations too, if
[1:56:38] Speaker 2: it was to save her to shut the guy up
[1:56:40] Speaker 2: all your secrets secret? Do you think you'd be a
[1:56:45] Speaker 2: good agent?
[1:56:47] Speaker 5: Do I think i'd be a good as opposed like,
[1:56:50] Speaker 5: do you.
[1:56:51] Speaker 2: Think you'd be good at it? And real life? You
[1:56:53] Speaker 2: were brought in they needed you. Do you think you'd
[1:56:56] Speaker 2: be good at it? Can you keep secrets.
[1:56:59] Speaker 5: In real life? In real life?
[1:57:01] Speaker 3: Are you good at keeping secrets?
[1:57:02] Speaker 5: I guess yes, I am, Yes I am. Let's just
[1:57:07] Speaker 5: say that marisk is a dear friend and she had
[1:57:11] Speaker 5: see her a secret me years ago and nobody ever
[1:57:14] Speaker 5: ever heard. That's wow.
[1:57:17] Speaker 2: Well, I always say to get secrets, you have to
[1:57:19] Speaker 2: keep secrets.
[1:57:22] Speaker 5: I'm excellent at keeping secrets. I'm excellent. I think of
[1:57:25] Speaker 5: keeping my mouth shut when I know it should be.
[1:57:29] Speaker 5: I would say my personality, I just came into this life.
[1:57:36] Speaker 5: Whatever I focus on and whatever I choose to do,
[1:57:40] Speaker 5: whatever project I take on, I'm committed to doing it
[1:57:44] Speaker 5: the absolute best I can. And so if I was
[1:57:47] Speaker 5: an FCI agent, I would be committed to being the
[1:57:49] Speaker 5: absolute best FBI agent I could be. Yeah, Okay, I
[1:57:54] Speaker 5: mean I don't know.
[1:57:55] Speaker 1: And you've played like a lot of cops and FBI people,
[1:58:00] Speaker 1: right like like law enforcement. That's been sort of like
[1:58:04] Speaker 1: I'm looking at your IMDb. It felt like it was
[1:58:05] Speaker 1: a lot of and a lot of Italians.
[1:58:09] Speaker 5: Gee, I wonder why, Yeah, you look.
[1:58:10] Speaker 3: Like an Italian cop. Do you speak Italian?
[1:58:15] Speaker 5: Sealianalian? I don't speak like a real att.
[1:58:25] Speaker 1: Yeah, I've go ahead, I speak Italian too, Oh you
[1:58:30] Speaker 1: speak it. Let's say, so.
[1:58:38] Speaker 5: What happened was well you asked the Italian part. I'll
[1:58:44] Speaker 5: tell you this. Uh, my ancestry is one hundred percent
[1:58:50] Speaker 5: Italian Italian one hundred My all my great grandparents came
[1:58:57] Speaker 5: from Sicily and Southern Italy. I loved Sicaly and one
[1:59:02] Speaker 5: grandfather came over, which made me second generation to one grandfather.
[1:59:07] Speaker 5: But I'm third generation. Other than that. And what happened
[1:59:13] Speaker 5: when I was young, I got a great movie. I
[1:59:14] Speaker 5: was only eighteen. I got The Black Stallion Returns and
[1:59:17] Speaker 5: we were based in Italy in Rome. We would go
[1:59:21] Speaker 5: off to North Africa to shoot, to Morocco for a
[1:59:24] Speaker 5: long time. It was a different time. We really took
[1:59:27] Speaker 5: kind to make movies back then. We were there for
[1:59:29] Speaker 5: four and a half months straight in Morocco shooting, and
[1:59:32] Speaker 5: then we went back to Italy. We regrouped. Then we
[1:59:34] Speaker 5: went to the Center of the Sahara Desert in Algeria
[1:59:37] Speaker 5: for two weeks. Incredible experience for a young guy eighteen
[1:59:41] Speaker 5: turning nineteen. I turned nineteen in Morocco, so we had
[1:59:45] Speaker 5: an Italian crew even though we were in North Africa.
[1:59:49] Speaker 5: So I learned a little bit there and it was
[1:59:52] Speaker 5: a magical time for that plane to take off from
[1:59:56] Speaker 5: New York and land, you know, in the motherland of
[2:00:00] Speaker 5: my ancestry. It was my first time out of the
[2:00:03] Speaker 5: country and going to Italy. So Italy was a part
[2:00:08] Speaker 5: of my life since I was very young, and then
[2:00:10] Speaker 5: I really started working over there a few years after that.
[2:00:14] Speaker 5: I would do a movie every year, so I learned
[2:00:17] Speaker 5: enough Italian, you know, to get by. But I found
[2:00:22] Speaker 5: that it wasn't in my interest to really speak it
[2:00:26] Speaker 5: too well, because then I wouldn't be the exotic American
[2:00:30] Speaker 5: that they bring over with his American passport to you know,
[2:00:33] Speaker 5: be in our movies. I would justy'd be like, oh, well,
[2:00:36] Speaker 5: in vance, you speak Italian, so you will do now
[2:00:39] Speaker 5: Italian movies and you can speak Italian. Not really in
[2:00:44] Speaker 5: terms of your police question, I guess thinking back, Yeah,
[2:00:49] Speaker 5: I played a detective. I did a Tales from the
[2:00:52] Speaker 5: Crypt episode.
[2:00:55] Speaker 1: Tales from the Crypt True Love Bear my Pants off.
[2:00:59] Speaker 1: When I was I was so think about that skeleton.
[2:01:03] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was that sassy skeleton.
[2:01:07] Speaker 5: Yes, she has the cripkeeper.
[2:01:08] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[2:01:09] Speaker 5: So I played a cop in this episode, but I
[2:01:13] Speaker 5: was a bad cop and I was trying to get
[2:01:15] Speaker 5: rid of my wife. And I did this episode with
[2:01:17] Speaker 5: David Paymer, and as it unravels, you realized that I
[2:01:20] Speaker 5: totally set him up to make it look like, you know,
[2:01:24] Speaker 5: he killed my wife when I was figuring out a
[2:01:26] Speaker 5: way to get rid of her. Oh my wife was
[2:01:28] Speaker 5: played by Tracy Lords by the way. Oh yeah, I
[2:01:32] Speaker 5: would go on and do work with her again. Sweetest
[2:01:35] Speaker 5: woman in the world. She had a very interesting beginning,
[2:01:38] Speaker 5: but she totally transitioned and came out of that and
[2:01:42] Speaker 5: uh it just created a whole new life for herself.
[2:01:45] Speaker 5: And then I directed an episode the year after that,
[2:01:49] Speaker 5: the following season, so that was really fun. As for
[2:01:53] Speaker 5: more cops, I think I was. I was FBI in
[2:01:58] Speaker 5: a You're not going to believe this two thousand and six.
[2:02:01] Speaker 5: I was FBI who saved Los Angeles in a many
[2:02:08] Speaker 5: A mini series called Pandemic. Oh my god, that's right.
[2:02:14] Speaker 5: So I was in this miniseries called Pandemic. I was
[2:02:17] Speaker 5: FBI and then I did an episode of Blue Bloods.
[2:02:23] Speaker 3: Ooh fun.
[2:02:25] Speaker 5: I played a cop, a cop who had been ninjured
[2:02:28] Speaker 5: on the job and can no longer I keep doing
[2:02:31] Speaker 5: when he's you know, he's that the apartment has to
[2:02:33] Speaker 5: let him go, get him, put him on his pension.
[2:02:36] Speaker 5: But my son is up and coming, and I in
[2:02:39] Speaker 5: the episode, I'm trying to, you know, get Tom to
[2:02:43] Speaker 5: put in a good word for my son. So yeah,
[2:02:47] Speaker 5: that's That's another time I played a cop. You probably
[2:02:49] Speaker 5: if you have the list in front of you, you
[2:02:51] Speaker 5: probably remember better than me.
[2:02:52] Speaker 3: Well, I'm seeing what I'm looking up.
[2:02:55] Speaker 2: You are criminal minds. Oh yeah, beyond brothers. But it
[2:03:00] Speaker 2: says commissario and I don't know what that means, but.
[2:03:05] Speaker 5: Yeah, but I'm based in Florence, commissario uh Galterio Conte.
[2:03:13] Speaker 5: See I did the I did the Italian accent in
[2:03:16] Speaker 5: the show because I'm in Florence and and that was great.
[2:03:21] Speaker 5: And that was a reunion with my dear friend Garius
[2:03:26] Speaker 5: because Garison is and I we did the Bauman Gilead
[2:03:30] Speaker 5: off a Broadway in nineteen eighty five at the Minetta
[2:03:35] Speaker 5: Lyne Titer yeh, and our director was a John MALKOVICHA wow.
[2:03:41] Speaker 3: Favorite.
[2:03:43] Speaker 5: Amazing people were in that show. You know who was
[2:03:46] Speaker 5: in that show. Laurie Metcalf, Oh wow, I love it.
[2:03:51] Speaker 3: Glenn Hedley, Oh, one of my favorite.
[2:03:55] Speaker 5: Glen Hendley. Yeah, she was on that show. Terry Kinney,
[2:04:01] Speaker 5: John Carlo s Bosito, Oh wow, he was in the show.
[2:04:06] Speaker 5: Stephen Bauer was in there for a little bit, but
[2:04:09] Speaker 5: he left kind of when I came in. He left.
[2:04:13] Speaker 5: But it was such an incredible cast. And to see
[2:04:21] Speaker 5: Gary after all those years and worked together again, it's
[2:04:23] Speaker 5: pretty amazing because a lot happened in his life between
[2:04:28] Speaker 5: nineteen eighty five and when I worked on the show
[2:04:31] Speaker 5: Criminal Minds. Yeah, it's what happens. If you survive long
[2:04:36] Speaker 5: enough in this business, you will come across people that
[2:04:43] Speaker 5: have been on these journeys that are almost unimaginable.
[2:04:46] Speaker 6: Look at Marishka, Yeah, right, she way back. You go
[2:04:50] Speaker 6: back to us doing Friend Street. I think before that
[2:04:54] Speaker 6: she had a nice little one episode fun thing on
[2:04:58] Speaker 6: Friends or something.
[2:04:59] Speaker 1: Yes, she did a seinfeld and she was in like Seinfeldt.
[2:05:03] Speaker 1: She was like iconically in a Power Rangers like movie
[2:05:07] Speaker 1: or something like that that people were would always send
[2:05:09] Speaker 1: us pictures of the mighty Morphem Power Rangers.
[2:05:12] Speaker 5: But so you look at that, you look at Marishka,
[2:05:15] Speaker 5: you know, having crossed her path early in her career,
[2:05:18] Speaker 5: then come into her her path later when she's been
[2:05:23] Speaker 5: established on SVU. I mean I think I came in
[2:05:25] Speaker 5: like the seventh season, eighth season. I remember it still
[2:05:28] Speaker 5: wasn't the world record, and who would know that it
[2:05:32] Speaker 5: would be headed towards a world record as being you know,
[2:05:37] Speaker 5: her tenure is unbelievable. And so that's what happens in
[2:05:43] Speaker 5: this business. You stick around long enough, you watch these
[2:05:46] Speaker 5: incredible journeys unfold of your fellow actors and people you've
[2:05:51] Speaker 5: worked with before.
[2:05:53] Speaker 3: Wait, what's this movie?
[2:05:54] Speaker 2: Goost Goose, Jennifer Hilly, I want to know everything, Okay.
[2:06:01] Speaker 5: Elita Chappelle was a casting lady. She was lovely, wonderful.
[2:06:09] Speaker 5: This was her directing debut and she had cast some
[2:06:12] Speaker 5: films for Francis Coppola. So Francis loved her, so he
[2:06:16] Speaker 5: jumped on board as executive producer to stand behind this project.
[2:06:21] Speaker 5: And it was about Jennifer Tilley. She goes to some
[2:06:27] Speaker 5: psychic I think, or some crystal ball lady who says
[2:06:30] Speaker 5: she's going to meet a doctor named Stephen and she's
[2:06:32] Speaker 5: finally going to have the guy that she's supposed to
[2:06:34] Speaker 5: be with. And so it's her journey of meeting all
[2:06:39] Speaker 5: these Stevens that are in some way related to doctors.
[2:06:45] Speaker 5: Some of them are actually real doctors. And it was
[2:06:47] Speaker 5: a great cast. I mean Tommy Church and I think
[2:06:51] Speaker 5: Damon Wyans, and then I play a Stephen who's in
[2:06:56] Speaker 5: a band called Medicine Man. So she thinks, oh, and
[2:07:00] Speaker 5: we end up having twins. And I tell you what,
[2:07:04] Speaker 5: Jennifer Tilley is so talented and so hilarious and we
[2:07:09] Speaker 5: just had a great time working together. So that was also.
[2:07:14] Speaker 5: I love to support women, you know, who are you know,
[2:07:18] Speaker 5: directing and making the transition into directing, and so I
[2:07:22] Speaker 5: wanted to be there and support Alita.
[2:07:25] Speaker 3: I think I'm going to watch a Goost tonight.
[2:07:27] Speaker 5: You know. It's funny. Jennifer and I read together for
[2:07:32] Speaker 5: the Doors because Oliver gave me a shot. He gave
[2:07:36] Speaker 5: me a shot to read. I remember going through the
[2:07:39] Speaker 5: audition and as I got there, I saw somebody, somebody
[2:07:43] Speaker 5: sitting on the curb. I said, that guy looks just
[2:07:47] Speaker 5: like Jim Morrison and I look close and I said, oh,
[2:07:49] Speaker 5: it's Val Shit. I said, vow, oh man, He's perfect
[2:07:55] Speaker 5: for this. And he had known about it early. He
[2:07:58] Speaker 5: had done a whole thing documentary with him being Jim Morrison.
[2:08:02] Speaker 5: Did you know that? Oh no, Val was amazing and
[2:08:05] Speaker 5: he he wanted that role so bad he did a
[2:08:08] Speaker 5: fake documentary with him as Jim Morrison so he could
[2:08:12] Speaker 5: show Oliver. And Oliver gave me a shot. I read
[2:08:16] Speaker 5: with Jennifer one scene he had me sing a song,
[2:08:21] Speaker 5: and I guess he came back. He said, he said
[2:08:25] Speaker 5: very good things to my ag says, you know, he
[2:08:26] Speaker 5: did great, but he's not the ideal, ideal Jim Morris.
[2:08:32] Speaker 5: I disagree. I disagree. I have natural brown eyes, I
[2:08:37] Speaker 5: had the long hair, and I've got the natural voice,
[2:08:40] Speaker 5: the baritone. You know. So anyway, that was not supposed
[2:08:44] Speaker 5: to be part of my history. And Val did a
[2:08:45] Speaker 5: great job.
[2:08:46] Speaker 2: Do you Is there anything your IMDb has a few
[2:08:50] Speaker 2: things post production. Is there anything you want our listeners
[2:08:53] Speaker 2: to go out and watch or follow or do?
[2:08:58] Speaker 5: There's one thing in the can that I believe they
[2:09:02] Speaker 5: were pursuing festivals for. I don't know if they've had
[2:09:06] Speaker 5: any success at that. It's called Oh Now, It's called
[2:09:11] Speaker 5: Dave Versus Hollywood. It's a mockumentary about a struggling Hollywood
[2:09:19] Speaker 5: actor and this young guy, this young actor, he just
[2:09:25] Speaker 5: did a phenomenal job. And it's kind of like a
[2:09:33] Speaker 5: spinal tap structure. I'm an interviewer. I'm a filmmaker, and
[2:09:38] Speaker 5: I'm making this documentary about this struggling Hollywood actor. And
[2:09:45] Speaker 5: so I'm interviewing him and we're following him around and
[2:09:49] Speaker 5: getting to know what it's like to, you know, to
[2:09:54] Speaker 5: be in Hollywood and be struggling and be almost forty
[2:09:57] Speaker 5: and worrying that you're never going to make it. The
[2:10:00] Speaker 5: actor's name is Preston Ward. Preston Ward. I think he's
[2:10:04] Speaker 5: going to be on the radar soon because he's he's excellent.
[2:10:07] Speaker 5: I think it would be for people in the industry.
[2:10:10] Speaker 5: I think they'll love it. I think they'll love it.
[2:10:12] Speaker 5: That's why I think it's a great festival movie. So
[2:10:14] Speaker 5: I hope, I hope it gets some traction.
[2:10:17] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, oh man, this has been great.
[2:10:20] Speaker 1: You know how many last minute tidbits from your time
[2:10:23] Speaker 1: at SVU. Some funny story about Chuckle at Craft Services
[2:10:27] Speaker 1: that you forgot to mention or anything like that.
[2:10:30] Speaker 5: Chuckles.
[2:10:31] Speaker 1: Gosh, well, how was it with Stabler?
[2:10:34] Speaker 3: I thought that we need to get into it.
[2:10:36] Speaker 1: But like with Maloney, I thought that this episode was
[2:10:39] Speaker 1: so funny with him constantly trying to get in between
[2:10:41] Speaker 1: you and and Benson having any romance. He kept making
[2:10:46] Speaker 1: all these jokes and being like, no, I don't need
[2:10:48] Speaker 1: to write home.
[2:10:48] Speaker 5: I'm good the jealousy kind of Yeah, well, I remember
[2:10:54] Speaker 5: Christopher was I mean, it was incredible on that show.
[2:10:59] Speaker 5: So it was it is. It was my privilege to
[2:11:02] Speaker 5: stand toe to toe with him in certain scenes. You know,
[2:11:04] Speaker 5: I really enjoyed that. And then of course there were
[2:11:07] Speaker 5: rumblings when I was doing the show in the last
[2:11:09] Speaker 5: year that Christopher may be leaving. So of course I
[2:11:11] Speaker 5: was hoping maybe I could come in there and I
[2:11:14] Speaker 5: know those big shoes to fill, and I didn't know
[2:11:16] Speaker 5: how it would work story wise, but you know that
[2:11:21] Speaker 5: was that was you're reminding me that that was a
[2:11:24] Speaker 5: hope back then. You know, who are my biggest fans
[2:11:26] Speaker 5: on that show, the Teamsters event you gotta do this show?
[2:11:31] Speaker 3: No?
[2:11:31] Speaker 5: No, no, you no, you You're perfect. You you know
[2:11:35] Speaker 5: they're looking for they're looking for a new guy to
[2:11:38] Speaker 5: come in. Of course, Chris probably is going to leave,
[2:11:40] Speaker 5: so you know they're talking about maybe Raylelyoda, but you
[2:11:43] Speaker 5: could be great. You should do this, you know. So
[2:11:45] Speaker 5: the teamsters were just all on my side. They were
[2:11:48] Speaker 5: putting in good words for me, just being on the
[2:11:50] Speaker 5: streets in New York and you know, being in going
[2:11:53] Speaker 5: back to my hometown to you know, to create it.
[2:11:56] Speaker 5: It was just a it was just the greatest experience.
[2:11:59] Speaker 5: You know, I love to do it again.
[2:12:05] Speaker 1: Okay, Well, that was a fun little chat with old
[2:12:08] Speaker 1: Dean Porter. And you know, we don't get to talk
[2:12:11] Speaker 1: to that many people who have gotten to make out
[2:12:12] Speaker 1: with Marishka. But I didn't realize they had a past,
[2:12:14] Speaker 1: so that probably made it easier. They've got a pass.
[2:12:17] Speaker 1: They weren't on a pilot together. They knew each other
[2:12:19] Speaker 1: when they were struggling actors.
[2:12:21] Speaker 3: Listen. He was a great guest.
[2:12:22] Speaker 2: We had a great chat, and you know, it's always
[2:12:25] Speaker 2: fun when the FBI gets involved. It always elevates the story,
[2:12:29] Speaker 2: gives something different, something new. And at the end of
[2:12:32] Speaker 2: the day, he was a piece of shit. He fucks
[2:12:34] Speaker 2: over the whole department. He's fucking them up.
[2:12:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so crazy that Huong is FBI, Like they're
[2:12:42] Speaker 1: so loving to him, but we hate everybody else from
[2:12:44] Speaker 1: the FBI.
[2:12:45] Speaker 2: Well, they weren't always on board with him. Let's from him,
[2:12:47] Speaker 2: you know, they really really doc well what the fuck?
[2:12:51] Speaker 3: You know?
[2:12:51] Speaker 1: But oh, back when they were like mental health, who
[2:12:54] Speaker 1: cares about that?
[2:12:55] Speaker 2: But then I think they realized how helpful one was.
[2:12:58] Speaker 2: But how but he's a different guy. Huang actually wants
[2:13:01] Speaker 2: to help, like detective I mean, Dean Porter did fuck
[2:13:04] Speaker 2: everyone up, and like that.
[2:13:05] Speaker 3: He wants the glory, he wants the big cases. But
[2:13:08] Speaker 3: I liked.
[2:13:09] Speaker 2: Vincent's perspective, like, oh butod, he's like saving all the
[2:13:11] Speaker 2: lives of all these undercover Cuban people and all these
[2:13:16] Speaker 2: intelligence officers. But they wasted SV's time where they could
[2:13:20] Speaker 2: have been solving rapes.
[2:13:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's like, also, your girl that you put
[2:13:25] Speaker 1: into the field, chose her drug addicted cousin to be
[2:13:29] Speaker 1: one of the people involved in the operation. Like that's
[2:13:31] Speaker 1: a mistake on the FBI's part.
[2:13:34] Speaker 3: She couldn't have.
[2:13:34] Speaker 2: Planned her cousin was going to get addicted to drugs,
[2:13:37] Speaker 2: Like you know what I mean.
[2:13:39] Speaker 1: I feel like she knew when she came to New York,
[2:13:41] Speaker 1: didn't she? I don't know, Assassin. The assassin probably just
[2:13:46] Speaker 1: had her digmatized as fuck. She was coked up getting
[2:13:49] Speaker 1: fucked by the sky with a ponytail and like life spirals,
[2:13:52] Speaker 1: you know what I mean, everyone happened there of us
[2:13:55] Speaker 1: who hasn't been there before, come on and the next
[2:13:59] Speaker 1: thing you know, your cousin's cutting your breast implants out.
[2:14:03] Speaker 2: They have national secrets in them. But then were they
[2:14:05] Speaker 2: gonna reoperate on her in Cuba? It's like so crazy. Yeah,
[2:14:10] Speaker 2: they were gonna open the things. Yeah, in Cuba, and
[2:14:14] Speaker 2: you did like, was she down with that? Because she
[2:14:16] Speaker 2: really did want a boob job? You're right, we didn't
[2:14:18] Speaker 2: really go through that. They were gonna like take out
[2:14:20] Speaker 2: the records, put a meta one in.
[2:14:21] Speaker 3: I think. I think it has good medicine.
[2:14:24] Speaker 1: Yeah, but they're like, we're just gonna swap out your implants,
[2:14:26] Speaker 1: take this one with the info, give you a better one.
[2:14:29] Speaker 5: I don't know.
[2:14:29] Speaker 1: It seems like a lot of a lot of surgery.
[2:14:35] Speaker 1: Don't think it could be me. But what did we
[2:14:39] Speaker 1: learn from this episode?
[2:14:40] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[2:14:40] Speaker 1: Trust trust no one. You can't even trust a guy
[2:14:43] Speaker 1: that you're making up. Well, they can't trust each other.
[2:14:44] Speaker 1: I mean, she can't trust Porter, but Porter did was
[2:14:47] Speaker 1: right not to trust her.
[2:14:49] Speaker 2: But also I loved like the telephone guy and the payphones,
[2:14:55] Speaker 2: Like I like the Jason Bourne of this episode.
[2:14:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's one of the episodes that I feel like
[2:15:00] Speaker 1: they structure kind of like a movie because it's got
[2:15:02] Speaker 1: all these like moving parts and different pieces, and I
[2:15:06] Speaker 1: mean I think they go to like seventy five different locations.
[2:15:09] Speaker 1: It's just very cinematic, I would say, like a movie.
[2:15:14] Speaker 1: And they love the last named Porter over at this
[2:15:16] Speaker 1: place because we've got Noah Porter, Benson, Sheila Porter, Agent,
[2:15:20] Speaker 1: Dean Porter. I wonder if they're all related to each other,
[2:15:22] Speaker 1: the all these Porters.
[2:15:24] Speaker 2: But yeah, and that there's there are multiple disgraced ones
[2:15:30] Speaker 2: like this one and Star.
[2:15:33] Speaker 3: I don't know.
[2:15:33] Speaker 2: It's we want them back, we want them all back,
[2:15:37] Speaker 2: an FBI gauntlet, let's.
[2:15:39] Speaker 3: Get it going. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[2:15:42] Speaker 1: I just sort of loved the Stabler trying to be
[2:15:46] Speaker 1: such a cock blocker too this whole episode, just like
[2:15:48] Speaker 1: trying to stop her from spending any time with this
[2:15:51] Speaker 1: man because before she found out he was a creep,
[2:15:53] Speaker 1: but she did kind of she did like him.
[2:15:55] Speaker 2: They had a vibe, you know, and she wants to
[2:15:57] Speaker 2: like earn our like because he was a dict her
[2:16:00] Speaker 2: in the Pacific Northwest. But then they did end up,
[2:16:02] Speaker 2: you know, he respected her and they had something. They
[2:16:05] Speaker 2: had something. Yeah, I mean I'm happy. I just want
[2:16:08] Speaker 2: I just want her to be happy. Whatever makes her happy.
[2:16:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right though, It's like SVU cares about victims
[2:16:14] Speaker 1: and making sure victims are okay and get justice, and
[2:16:18] Speaker 1: FBI cares about like maximizing, minimizing damage, maximizing like impact,
[2:16:25] Speaker 1: you know.
[2:16:25] Speaker 3: Yeah, so they're just really not meant.
[2:16:28] Speaker 2: To be together in that way that they have different
[2:16:30] Speaker 2: philosophy and they're so the FBI, I think, is closer
[2:16:33] Speaker 2: to Socio and Benson.
[2:16:35] Speaker 3: There's no one that feels things more than her.
[2:16:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that woman was just like I had
[2:16:41] Speaker 1: to do it.
[2:16:42] Speaker 3: I just had to.
[2:16:43] Speaker 1: Murder my cousin and cut out her like she that's
[2:16:47] Speaker 1: her training, you know, is like well, sorry, gotta go.
[2:16:50] Speaker 1: You know, Like I don't think Benson would have done
[2:16:53] Speaker 1: that to save a bunch of people in the Cuban resistance,
[2:16:57] Speaker 1: even if it's important.
[2:16:58] Speaker 3: I don't know, no, what would Benson do?
[2:17:02] Speaker 2: But a good episode better fucking do an.
[2:17:06] Speaker 3: Ice episode soon? Well they did one. I thought they
[2:17:10] Speaker 3: didn't air it or something. No, they did.
[2:17:12] Speaker 1: They did an episode where a guy has to testify
[2:17:16] Speaker 1: that he saw this man and he testifies and then
[2:17:20] Speaker 1: the Ice brings it. They like they try to bring
[2:17:22] Speaker 1: him in through Ice, and he was testifying to he's
[2:17:26] Speaker 1: a he's a he's a super at a building where
[2:17:30] Speaker 1: there's an Airbnb and the guy who runs the Airbnb
[2:17:32] Speaker 1: is attacking people that he runs his Airbnb out to,
[2:17:34] Speaker 1: and the guy it's like, I saw this. But then
[2:17:37] Speaker 1: he has to stand up for justice and risk getting deported,
[2:17:42] Speaker 1: but they take care of They take care of him,
[2:17:45] Speaker 1: and Benson has to stand up to Ice like she
[2:17:47] Speaker 1: has to stand up to federal authorities. It's fucking But
[2:17:52] Speaker 1: the episode that they that they are shelving too is
[2:17:55] Speaker 1: this Timothy Bussfield episode where I don't know what's happening
[2:17:58] Speaker 1: with all of that, but he's in custody. There's more accusations.
[2:18:04] Speaker 1: Melissa Gilbert's giving interviews about how she feels like she's
[2:18:07] Speaker 1: in a nightmare.
[2:18:07] Speaker 3: I don't know. It feels like a fucking as View episode.
[2:18:10] Speaker 3: It's crazy, but.
[2:18:12] Speaker 1: More information as it comes in let's get to what
[2:18:15] Speaker 1: would Sister peg do? WWSPD our weekly segment where we
[2:18:20] Speaker 1: point you to a news article, a blog, a post,
[2:18:26] Speaker 1: a documentary, an organization, something to give you more info
[2:18:29] Speaker 1: about what we talked about, because we do not have
[2:18:31] Speaker 1: all the information. And this week I really wanted to
[2:18:33] Speaker 1: point you to one of the sources I used in
[2:18:35] Speaker 1: my research about undercover informants. That was a twenty twelve
[2:18:40] Speaker 1: artarticle in The New Yorker written by Pulitzer Prize winning
[2:18:43] Speaker 1: journalist Sarah Stillman called The Throwaways. It's a super interesting
[2:18:48] Speaker 1: article about how they entice people into becoming criminal informants
[2:18:53] Speaker 1: and how they are woefully underprepared. They're put into situations
[2:18:57] Speaker 1: where they're truly just treated as like they say, article
[2:19:00] Speaker 1: foot soldiers in this war on drugs, which does not
[2:19:03] Speaker 1: even need to exist is another question. But it goes
[2:19:06] Speaker 1: into a lot of detail about Rachel Hoffin's case, but
[2:19:08] Speaker 1: it also explores the shady use of criminal informants by
[2:19:10] Speaker 1: the police. So for more info, you can go to
[2:19:13] Speaker 1: the New Yorker dot com and that will be posted
[2:19:17] Speaker 1: in our show notes and also in a story that
[2:19:21] Speaker 1: we post the day this episode comes out, as well
[2:19:24] Speaker 1: as saved forever in our WWSPD highlights on our Instagram,
[2:19:28] Speaker 1: which is that s messed up pod.
[2:19:29] Speaker 3: Get on over there for.
[2:19:31] Speaker 1: Fun, homework posts, show posts, some fun in the stories.
[2:19:37] Speaker 3: We're having fun over there. Give it a follow.
[2:19:40] Speaker 2: We also, Yeah, I hated rivalry has been taken over
[2:19:44] Speaker 2: so much. We didn't even talk about the Beckhams.
[2:19:48] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I've been talking about that with some people.
[2:19:52] Speaker 2: Well, because I now I'm getting videos in my feet
[2:19:54] Speaker 2: of like them dancing them on carpets, them pushing arms away.
[2:19:58] Speaker 3: Who's in the pocket?
[2:19:59] Speaker 2: I mean, over everything, Like we just talked about in
[2:20:03] Speaker 2: heated rivalry with like the actress, Like we think we
[2:20:06] Speaker 2: know what's happening, but you really don't.
[2:20:08] Speaker 3: Yeah, but I wonder who's the bitch, huh?
[2:20:12] Speaker 1: I mean the the Beckhams are the they Okay, they
[2:20:16] Speaker 1: trademarked his name and now will not let him use it.
[2:20:20] Speaker 1: They trademarked all their kids' names and won't let them
[2:20:23] Speaker 1: use it. That's fucked up. I think if you trademark
[2:20:26] Speaker 1: your kids' names and you're famous, I totally get that.
[2:20:28] Speaker 1: You don't want people coming out making Brooklyn Beckham whatever
[2:20:31] Speaker 1: like garbage shit. That's not your family once they turn eighteen,
[2:20:35] Speaker 1: you give them their fucking name back.
[2:20:38] Speaker 3: And she's twenty six years old, they won't give him
[2:20:41] Speaker 3: his trademark. Wait what else? What else?
[2:20:43] Speaker 5: I mean?
[2:20:44] Speaker 3: I don't know, just that I think they hate Nikola Peltz.
[2:20:47] Speaker 3: I don't know.
[2:20:47] Speaker 1: I don't really know anything else. But the trademark thing
[2:20:50] Speaker 1: was really surprising to me. Like, I'm sure Kim Kardashian
[2:20:53] Speaker 1: will give Northwest her name when she's eighteen, not hold
[2:20:57] Speaker 1: it over her so that she dates the right person.
[2:20:59] Speaker 1: Maybe I'm describing too much morality to Kim Gardashian right now,
[2:21:03] Speaker 1: but like that seems like a really shitty thing to do.
[2:21:06] Speaker 1: It's also like everybody should know from every movie and
[2:21:11] Speaker 1: television show throughout history and real life experience, like hating
[2:21:15] Speaker 1: on your kid's partner is like not going to do
[2:21:17] Speaker 1: anything you need to like try to find a common
[2:21:21] Speaker 1: ground somehow, because it's only going to make him pull
[2:21:23] Speaker 1: away from you more. I feel like, you know, damn,
[2:21:27] Speaker 1: it's one thing if like somebody's abusive and you're trying
[2:21:29] Speaker 1: to like get them out of a situation. But you
[2:21:30] Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like I don't know what they
[2:21:31] Speaker 1: don't like about this girl, but it's not. I don't
[2:21:34] Speaker 1: think she's physically harming him. Yeah, damn, yeah, it's crazy.
[2:21:38] Speaker 1: Next week you will, Yeah, we'll do a deeper dive. Yeah. Well,
[2:21:42] Speaker 1: I'll read some articles that we'll talk about the Beckham's next.
[2:21:44] Speaker 3: Week, everybody where they can meet us.
[2:21:47] Speaker 2: Next week SVU wise, and next week we'll be doing
[2:21:50] Speaker 2: dance lies and videotape from season twenty one, episode seventeen.
[2:21:54] Speaker 1: Get at It, Love you guys, bye e.
[2:22:05] Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
[2:22:08] Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
[2:22:10] Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
[2:22:12] Speaker 1: at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
[2:22:16] Speaker 1: That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever.
[2:22:19] Speaker 3: You get your podcasts.
[2:22:20] Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
[2:22:24] Speaker 2: and follow us personally at Kara Klank and.
[2:22:26] Speaker 3: At Glitter Cheese.
[2:22:28] Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
[2:22:31] Speaker 1: more information.
[2:22:32] Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
[2:22:35] Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and.
[2:22:38] Speaker 1: To our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Coottner,
[2:22:41] Speaker 1: and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
[2:22:44] Speaker 1: gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive
[2:22:47] Speaker 1: producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody
[2:22:51] Speaker 1: at Exactly Right Media.
[2:22:53] Speaker 3: Dun Dun,

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