# Nomzia Bistline, Part 2 - Raided by the FBI, Life in Prison, and Breaking Free From Sam Bateman

An episode of [Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1534370789), 13 May 2026, 1 h 06 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/f804eed6-dd2f-4bf9-ba37-b2de011a8b27/5dfb9c0a-e8b7-41c4-8373-b442015ba52f/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=462fb424-93c4-4e4b-8e00-b2de011a8b44

In part 2 with Nomzia aka Nomz Bistline, from Netflix’s docuseries Trust Me: The False Prophet (with Lola’s mom), Nomz shares what it was like getting raided by the FBI, how she felt about Lola’s mom when she learned Christine was the FBI informant, and why the “prophet” Samuel Bateman was obsessed with marrying the queen of England. She discusses the events leading up to her time in jail, how she began the painful process of deconstructing while in prison, and what life has been like since getting out–and finally being free of Samuel Bateman. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:01] Speaker 1: Trust me?
[0:02] Speaker 2: Do you trust her?
[0:04] Speaker 1: Where I ever lead you astray?
[0:05] Speaker 3: Trust This is the truth, the only truth.
[0:09] Speaker 4: If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't
[0:13] Speaker 4: welcome to trust me. The podcast about colts, extreme belief
[0:18] Speaker 4: and manipulation from two Queens of England who have actually
[0:21] Speaker 4: experienced it. I'm Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth and
[0:25] Speaker 4: today is part two with my family friend Nomes bistline
[0:29] Speaker 4: from the Netflix docuseries Trust Me the False Prophet, which
[0:32] Speaker 4: centers around largely my mother Christine Marie. This week, Nomes
[0:37] Speaker 4: is going to share what it was like getting raided
[0:39] Speaker 4: by the FBI, how she felt about my mom when
[0:42] Speaker 4: she learned that she was the FBI informant, and why
[0:45] Speaker 4: these so called prophet Samuel Bateman was obsessed with marrying
[0:48] Speaker 4: the Queen of England.
[0:50] Speaker 1: She'll tell us about the events leading up to her
[0:52] Speaker 1: time and gel how she began the painful process of
[0:56] Speaker 1: deconstructing while in prison, and what life has been like
[0:59] Speaker 1: since getting out and finally being free of Samuel Bateman.
[1:03] Speaker 1: Thank god, thank god.
[1:06] Speaker 5: Yeah, before we get into this second part of GNOME's story,
[1:10] Speaker 5: which is just like, it's so compelling that what she
[1:13] Speaker 5: has been through and how much she has been able
[1:15] Speaker 5: to deconstruct in such a short amount of time, and like,
[1:19] Speaker 5: I mean, you're all gonna you're you're about to hear it,
[1:20] Speaker 5: but just it's very impressive.
[1:22] Speaker 1: I'm very impressed by her. Chill's She's unbelievable.
[1:26] Speaker 5: Yeah, before we get into that all of that with
[1:30] Speaker 5: gnomes Megan, I must know what your cultiest thing this
[1:33] Speaker 5: week is.
[1:34] Speaker 1: Okay, my cultiest thing of this week is pretty personal. Actually,
[1:39] Speaker 1: this is a first hand experience.
[1:40] Speaker 2: Are you ready to hear it?
[1:42] Speaker 1: I'm ready? Okay, So I'm moving already a stressful situation.
[1:48] Speaker 1: We often find that people join cults when somebody dies
[1:52] Speaker 1: or when they're having to move or big life changes
[1:54] Speaker 1: to just something to note, you know what I mean,
[1:57] Speaker 1: I have to move right. So I'm looking online. I'm
[2:00] Speaker 1: looking online, and I'm emailing people, and I'm looking at apartments,
[2:05] Speaker 1: and the first house that I like says, come on
[2:09] Speaker 1: over and look at it. Okay, mm hmm, this is
[2:12] Speaker 1: the first house I'm looking at. So I first noticed
[2:15] Speaker 1: something was weird when the person I was texting with
[2:19] Speaker 1: was like, Okay, you may now move on to the
[2:23] Speaker 1: man of the homes. Text message so the first person
[2:26] Speaker 1: I was texting with didn't even live in the house,
[2:28] Speaker 1: right oh, And I was like, oh, okay, so now
[2:32] Speaker 1: I'm speaking to the person who lives there, and it's
[2:35] Speaker 1: a cute house.
[2:37] Speaker 2: Uh, I'm excited to go look at it.
[2:40] Speaker 1: I give one of our mutual guy friends my location
[2:43] Speaker 1: in case something bad happens, which, looking back, it's like,
[2:46] Speaker 1: what could he possibly do? He wouldn't even notice I
[2:48] Speaker 1: was missing for like a month.
[2:50] Speaker 4: But.
[2:52] Speaker 1: I felt I was taking all the safety precautions.
[2:55] Speaker 2: I get to the house.
[2:57] Speaker 1: This very nice looking man, very polite, opens the gate.
[3:03] Speaker 3: Hello.
[3:04] Speaker 1: The first thing I noticed is that there is a
[3:07] Speaker 1: semi truck made of clear glass. Huh yeah, that's I go,
[3:12] Speaker 1: I'm my picture that. Okay, that sounds cool. Yeah, So
[3:15] Speaker 1: I go, what's that? And he says, sometimes we do
[3:20] Speaker 1: karaoke in it. People do like individualized garage sales out
[3:24] Speaker 1: of it. And I'm like, cute, look at the pool.
[3:26] Speaker 1: Let's go show me the pool. Right, we go, look
[3:29] Speaker 1: at the pool. Yes, there's a pool. Obsessed And on
[3:33] Speaker 1: our way to the pool, I see this little statue
[3:35] Speaker 1: of an alien and I'm like, oh my god, he's
[3:37] Speaker 1: so cute, Like it's a very intricate statue. He's like really,
[3:43] Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, I love him, you know,
[3:45] Speaker 1: like aliens better come save us soon, haha.
[3:47] Speaker 2: And he's like yeah, and I was like great.
[3:51] Speaker 1: So then we get into the house and he's showing
[3:54] Speaker 1: me my room and it's a cute room.
[3:57] Speaker 2: I'm looking around.
[3:58] Speaker 1: I look out one of the windows and I see
[4:00] Speaker 1: on this clear box semi track a like phrase that
[4:06] Speaker 1: seems rather culty with an alien on it. And the
[4:10] Speaker 1: alien is wearing a crown of thorns. Okay, oh no,
[4:14] Speaker 1: like a Jesus what kind of alien? Like? What's the
[4:17] Speaker 1: look of the alien? A gray, like just a normal gray,
[4:21] Speaker 1: like peace signed style, like big head, big eyes. Yeah, okay,
[4:25] Speaker 1: I mean it wasn't doing normal, But I was like,
[4:30] Speaker 1: oh dear, for some reason, I'm still interested in the
[4:35] Speaker 1: room makes sense this salt tracks for you. So I'm like,
[4:43] Speaker 1: we're measuring it together. But I am at the same
[4:47] Speaker 1: time rather anxious. So I had like an iced coffee
[4:50] Speaker 1: with me, and it was doing a lot of prop work,
[4:52] Speaker 1: like I kept shaking it a lot, kind of like
[4:56] Speaker 1: holding it very much in between us, and I was
[5:01] Speaker 1: just a little nervous, right, So then he's like, do
[5:04] Speaker 1: you want to see the storage room? And you said yes,
[5:08] Speaker 1: and I was like, sure, I would love someplace to
[5:12] Speaker 1: keep my Christmas decorations. True, I would I'm in a
[5:16] Speaker 1: new place now and they're just sitting out. I would
[5:18] Speaker 1: love a storage room. Takes me down to the storage room.
[5:23] Speaker 1: Life sized alien on across stop.
[5:25] Speaker 5: First of all, Megan, I can't believe you went down
[5:27] Speaker 5: into the store room with a strange man in the
[5:30] Speaker 5: house with the aliens with the crowns of thorns.
[5:33] Speaker 2: Like, what the hell?
[5:35] Speaker 5: He was really nice and there's an alien on a
[5:39] Speaker 5: fucking cross, Like how yeah? Are we talking like life
[5:42] Speaker 5: size size, life size alien on across?
[5:45] Speaker 3: Yes?
[5:46] Speaker 2: Oh oh that's cool.
[5:50] Speaker 1: And this iced coffee is now just like propping around
[5:54] Speaker 1: like I'm shaking it. I'm like whoop, woop poop, and
[5:58] Speaker 1: he's like yeah, but you know, like he's kind of
[6:01] Speaker 1: proud of it, right, And I was like, well, I
[6:04] Speaker 1: got a lot more places to see today. This place
[6:08] Speaker 1: is great. You'll be hearing from me soon. And I
[6:13] Speaker 1: leave and I walk out to my car and I
[6:15] Speaker 1: call you and you're like that's insane.
[6:21] Speaker 2: And there's a part of me that's still like but
[6:24] Speaker 2: I like the room. Wait did we learn like what
[6:29] Speaker 2: the deal is?
[6:29] Speaker 1: Well, of course it's very easy to google, and you know,
[6:33] Speaker 1: please just don't because I don't want him to be
[6:36] Speaker 1: mad at me.
[6:37] Speaker 2: But I did.
[6:38] Speaker 1: I told someone the story and they were like, oh,
[6:40] Speaker 1: it's this church, and I do think he might be
[6:43] Speaker 1: the leader of it. I'm not looking too deeply into it.
[6:47] Speaker 1: And everyone was like. My friends were like, you should
[6:50] Speaker 1: do like a thing where you move in like kind
[6:53] Speaker 1: of like your mom with the gnomes and you know,
[6:57] Speaker 1: Sam Bateman stuff, like you just start documenting it.
[7:00] Speaker 2: And I was like, no, because I would join it.
[7:05] Speaker 5: I mean yes, you would join it, especially because you
[7:08] Speaker 5: love living amongst other people in like a communal communal vibe,
[7:13] Speaker 5: like you.
[7:13] Speaker 1: Love that, and an alien I mean yeah. So it's
[7:19] Speaker 1: a religion. It's a religion, and there's like a there's
[7:21] Speaker 1: a building, there's a you know. People are saying like
[7:26] Speaker 1: it's coercive. Some people are saying it's lovely.
[7:29] Speaker 2: So wow.
[7:31] Speaker 1: The one last thing I'll add is that he did
[7:34] Speaker 1: ask for my Instagram and I sent it to him
[7:38] Speaker 1: and the bio is just like cult hunting, so I'm
[7:42] Speaker 1: like his mind, Oh yours yours? I was like, what Okay,
[7:46] Speaker 1: that makes sense. I used to say that maybe it
[7:48] Speaker 1: says like getting culty or like, I don't know, yeah, yeah,
[7:52] Speaker 1: he doesn't think he's in a cult, right, He's like,
[7:56] Speaker 1: who cares if this girl likes looking at cults? This
[7:59] Speaker 1: isn't a cult.
[8:00] Speaker 2: It's the right correct thing. I mean.
[8:03] Speaker 5: I was just like, whoa, wow, wow, Well, I'm really
[8:06] Speaker 5: sad you didn't move in, som My.
[8:08] Speaker 1: Honestly, the pool was really really good. It was cold,
[8:13] Speaker 1: otherwise it didn't have a heater. Otherwise, I'll be honest,
[8:15] Speaker 1: I would be living there also, like a carpet situation.
[8:20] Speaker 1: I don't know, but listen, I didn't move in. I'm
[8:24] Speaker 1: not going to move in. I really hope he doesn't
[8:26] Speaker 1: get mad at me because he was so so nice.
[8:29] Speaker 2: And polite and showed me around.
[8:31] Speaker 1: And I don't feel totally comfortable like talking about somebody
[8:35] Speaker 1: like that. But it was just too weird. The whole
[8:38] Speaker 1: concept of this podcast, trust Me, is that you and
[8:42] Speaker 1: I have both been involved in cult groups.
[8:46] Speaker 2: What are the.
[8:46] Speaker 1: Odds that the first house that I look at is
[8:49] Speaker 1: going to be a cult? Apparently very high because it.
[8:53] Speaker 2: Was that's crazy.
[8:55] Speaker 5: It's like you knew it just was calling to you
[8:58] Speaker 5: the first one.
[9:00] Speaker 1: Yeah, well you didn't move in, so that's the first step.
[9:02] Speaker 1: I didn't move in. Yeah, old me would have moved
[9:05] Speaker 1: in without planning to be doing a documentary on it.
[9:08] Speaker 1: So they just small step, small steps. Yes, what about you?
[9:12] Speaker 1: What's your cultiest thing of the week, Lola.
[9:15] Speaker 5: Mine is just that I found out that uh A
[9:17] Speaker 5: twenty four the film production company that has a cult
[9:22] Speaker 5: following in a very different way from the way we
[9:24] Speaker 5: traditionally use the word cult obviously more just a rabbit
[9:27] Speaker 5: fan base or whatever. Yeah, they now have a theater
[9:31] Speaker 5: and a restaurant in New York.
[9:34] Speaker 2: Oh, No, restaurants are the gateway.
[9:36] Speaker 5: They're the gateway, and they're expanding the brand to have
[9:40] Speaker 5: all of these other cultural things that have nothing to
[9:44] Speaker 5: do with the movies. And listen, I am like, I know,
[9:47] Speaker 5: it's like not as cool anymore because they're so big now,
[9:49] Speaker 5: but I still am a total A twenty four fangirl,
[9:52] Speaker 5: and I would I want to direct movies for them
[9:53] Speaker 5: so badly.
[9:54] Speaker 1: So what I'm actually saying is.
[9:57] Speaker 5: The line between cool brand and unhealthy fixation on brand
[10:03] Speaker 5: to levels of cultiness like it can be very blurry.
[10:07] Speaker 1: I definitely still very much.
[10:08] Speaker 5: I am obsessed with this brand and if anyone wants to
[10:11] Speaker 5: let me in, listen, I'm joining.
[10:13] Speaker 1: They make incredible things, and I will say, like, obviously
[10:17] Speaker 1: they aren't a cults. I don't think no, but the
[10:20] Speaker 1: cult following, which is different. Yeah, but but it is
[10:24] Speaker 1: worth noting to listeners that restaurants are the gateway drugs
[10:28] Speaker 1: of cults. They love opening a restaurant. So whenever you
[10:32] Speaker 1: see a religion or a movement say we got a restaurant,
[10:35] Speaker 1: you can still eat there if it's good, but just beware,
[10:39] Speaker 1: but listen.
[10:40] Speaker 5: There are people quoted in this Hollywood Reporter article which
[10:43] Speaker 5: is called twenty four Hours Inside the Cult of A
[10:45] Speaker 5: twenty four, which came out today, written by Julian Sankton.
[10:50] Speaker 5: There are quotes from people who like are attending some
[10:53] Speaker 5: of these events, who are like, I would do anything
[10:56] Speaker 5: to work for A twenty four, you know, like the
[10:58] Speaker 5: brand loyalty is so strong, but like I get why
[11:01] Speaker 5: they titled it that, and they they listen, they do
[11:04] Speaker 5: really make the best movies.
[11:06] Speaker 2: Like they just obvious.
[11:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm gonna make one one day.
[11:11] Speaker 5: And when we do our inevitable East Coast trust me
[11:16] Speaker 5: trip for some reason, we will go to the restaurant
[11:19] Speaker 5: and we will report back.
[11:20] Speaker 1: Yeah, let's have our live show at the age twenty
[11:23] Speaker 1: four restaurant. Oh my god, totally, thank you, good job.
[11:28] Speaker 1: All right, should we start talking to Nomes now?
[11:32] Speaker 2: I think we absolutely must.
[11:34] Speaker 1: Let's do it.
[11:47] Speaker 2: Okay.
[11:47] Speaker 5: So up until the raid, you're like Tolga and Christina
[11:50] Speaker 5: are a little sus And then the RAI raid happens, which,
[11:57] Speaker 5: first of all, was that like insanely traumatic? Like what
[11:59] Speaker 5: what did you think on the day of the raid?
[12:01] Speaker 3: Yes, it was very traumatic, very chaotic. We were all
[12:05] Speaker 3: desperate and terrified, especially being told against the government, being
[12:11] Speaker 3: trained and taught and raised, thinking these people are always
[12:16] Speaker 3: going to be out to get us, right, then, it
[12:18] Speaker 3: was terrifying. And I believe Sam knew before they came,
[12:24] Speaker 3: because the few weeks between his first arrest and the
[12:28] Speaker 3: raid then he was very paranoid and he started clamping down.
[12:35] Speaker 3: They were the most intense weeks, and he started telling
[12:39] Speaker 3: us how to respond to these police officers, and he
[12:44] Speaker 3: started talking about they're going to try to take me
[12:47] Speaker 3: from you, and he would talk about lying like hell
[12:51] Speaker 3: if we had to, or answer them nothing right, And
[12:56] Speaker 3: I remember him getting very adamant, very area about that,
[13:02] Speaker 3: and we were still clueless what was going to happen.
[13:06] Speaker 5: Was it the Do you think it was the arrest
[13:09] Speaker 5: with the trailer that triggered his paranoia? Like what do
[13:13] Speaker 5: you think was making him so paranoid?
[13:17] Speaker 3: I'm not sure I do. I do remember him saying
[13:22] Speaker 3: things that I remember Tolga even saying things Toga like
[13:26] Speaker 3: just be just tell the truth, just tell them everything.
[13:29] Speaker 3: Because yes, after the first arrest, and he was really paranoid,
[13:33] Speaker 3: and then Toga started dropping these huge hints that I'm
[13:38] Speaker 3: shocked that he didn't catch on too, because total the'd
[13:41] Speaker 3: be like, yep, they're gonna come in and take you
[13:44] Speaker 3: and just tell the truth. And he would also say
[13:47] Speaker 3: say things like have the younger girls with their mothers,
[13:52] Speaker 3: like send them back with the moms. Don't don't have
[13:55] Speaker 3: anything to do with them. He tried, Toga really tried
[13:58] Speaker 3: to warn Sam that he was doing the wrong. And
[14:04] Speaker 3: thinking back now, I think that Tolgo was very very
[14:10] Speaker 3: disturbed with Sam, and he it was all he could
[14:14] Speaker 3: have to not to strangle him.
[14:16] Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yes, yeah, it makes sense.
[14:20] Speaker 3: Yeah, and like just act like all this stuff was
[14:23] Speaker 3: amazing that he was doing when he's hiking in his.
[14:28] Speaker 1: Him saying, Wow, that's amazing. It's just to have one
[14:35] Speaker 1: ounce of Sam's motorcycle confidence. I know, I couldn't be
[14:40] Speaker 1: the president. What do you think his obsession with the
[14:43] Speaker 1: queen was about? Oh?
[14:45] Speaker 2: What the heck was that?
[14:46] Speaker 3: I can tell, Like I mean, I was just video
[14:49] Speaker 3: and earlier telling about that, because, like I get, I'm
[14:52] Speaker 3: getting a lot of people asking me to tell the
[14:54] Speaker 3: story behind the Queen of England. I mean, it is
[15:00] Speaker 3: pretty wild, it's kind of crazy. But one morning he
[15:05] Speaker 3: came in and talked about he had this dream and
[15:09] Speaker 3: in the dream then it was so random too, it
[15:13] Speaker 3: was very random, he said. In his dream then he
[15:17] Speaker 3: was with the Queen of England and he was kissing
[15:20] Speaker 3: her wrists. Oh and as the days went by, then
[15:25] Speaker 3: pretty soon he started talking about how the Queen of
[15:28] Speaker 3: England belonged to him, belonged to his family, and then
[15:32] Speaker 3: he started saying things like he's going to marry the
[15:35] Speaker 3: Queen of England and therefore he would be King of England. R.
[15:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, there, that's what the goal is.
[15:43] Speaker 5: But weren't there other people besides the queen too that
[15:46] Speaker 5: he was convinced, like weren't there other famous people.
[15:48] Speaker 3: There was this singer lady, I don't exactly remember her name,
[15:52] Speaker 3: and then there was Christine, and he started telling us
[15:56] Speaker 3: like Christine's going to be your sister wives and stuff.
[15:59] Speaker 3: And then there was Elie in.
[16:00] Speaker 5: Meryl, sorry at least in Meryl for context, are are
[16:05] Speaker 5: my friends since you know, since I was nineteen or something, And.
[16:09] Speaker 3: They came and helped with a lot of the filming.
[16:11] Speaker 1: The filming in the town.
[16:12] Speaker 5: Yeah, this is before Netflix was ever involved, but Elise
[16:15] Speaker 5: had filmed some and stuff, and maryl was her twin
[16:17] Speaker 5: sister who also did a little bit of filming in
[16:19] Speaker 5: the town.
[16:20] Speaker 1: That's that's so funny.
[16:22] Speaker 3: But that was that was the time when it was
[16:26] Speaker 3: when he brought up Elisa and Meryl, when I finally
[16:30] Speaker 3: came up with the audacity to question him, And in
[16:35] Speaker 3: the way I questioned him was kind of very hesitant,
[16:39] Speaker 3: very and I still was very I was very punished
[16:41] Speaker 3: for it. So what happened was one night then after Tolgian,
[16:46] Speaker 3: Christine and ELISEA and Merrill came Olbur and was helping
[16:49] Speaker 3: with the filming of his birthday party or something. And
[16:54] Speaker 3: that night then he gathered us all around, and he
[16:58] Speaker 3: said something to the effect of those girls belong in
[17:02] Speaker 3: my family. And I finally had the courage and I said,
[17:06] Speaker 3: I'm tempted to think evil of you, because every girl
[17:09] Speaker 3: you see that's pretty or something's happening in their life
[17:13] Speaker 3: that they're doing, then they suddenly belonged to you.
[17:17] Speaker 2: Wow.
[17:18] Speaker 3: He did not like that.
[17:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, I can imagine he didn't.
[17:23] Speaker 3: He didn't have any explanation, explanation to me why, and
[17:27] Speaker 3: he just told me to pack my stuff. And then
[17:30] Speaker 3: I was vanished for three months out living in that
[17:33] Speaker 3: box trailer out on Bailmland.
[17:37] Speaker 2: Oh wow.
[17:38] Speaker 3: Yeah, spend a few months out there and with him.
[17:41] Speaker 1: A lot, and oh okay, he was there, yes.
[17:45] Speaker 3: And then he would have different girls and women out there,
[17:48] Speaker 3: and he kept telling he told them that I was
[17:52] Speaker 3: always out there because the old man were lusting after me.
[17:57] Speaker 3: And then he would tell me why it was because
[17:59] Speaker 3: I was questioning him and he would say, like, because
[18:03] Speaker 3: you think you're smarter than me, Well technically I.
[18:06] Speaker 2: Was any scale.
[18:10] Speaker 5: Yeah, it is really hard to square like with him
[18:13] Speaker 5: in particular, like because sometimes we'll talk to people and like.
[18:16] Speaker 1: Their cult leader or their profit or whatever.
[18:18] Speaker 5: Like it was clearly very smart and very capable, and
[18:23] Speaker 5: just like you know, with Sam, I'm like, it's it's
[18:26] Speaker 5: hard to square how goofy and like dorky he is
[18:30] Speaker 5: with how evil he is, Like I feel like those
[18:32] Speaker 5: things aren't supposed to go together, you know what I mean?
[18:35] Speaker 3: Well, truthfully, all the trending videos mocking him, I feel
[18:38] Speaker 3: very validated. I feel like, yes, like he deserves it.
[18:42] Speaker 2: Yeah, certainly, I'm going to compensate for this.
[18:46] Speaker 3: I will tell more crazy stupid things that he did
[18:49] Speaker 3: that was so bizarre.
[18:51] Speaker 5: Yeah, are there any you haven't told tons? Give us one.
[18:56] Speaker 3: Well, there's the Queen of England thing, there's All of
[18:59] Speaker 3: his goals were pretty bizarre, and even his marble palace stuff.
[19:03] Speaker 3: I remember questioning him about that, and it got so
[19:07] Speaker 3: it got to a point where I was so terrified
[19:11] Speaker 3: to approach him on different things. And when I would
[19:16] Speaker 3: say something, one of the other girls I remember her
[19:18] Speaker 3: coming to me and she said, if you'd learned to
[19:21] Speaker 3: shut up, then he wouldn't punish you so much. And
[19:26] Speaker 3: then that night then she got up in front of
[19:28] Speaker 3: everyone and said something about tempted to always continually thinkingful
[19:34] Speaker 3: of notes because she always she always says things that
[19:38] Speaker 3: are that get her in trouble.
[19:40] Speaker 1: Wow, reble at heart is what I'm hearing.
[19:44] Speaker 2: I'm on me too.
[19:45] Speaker 3: I feel like I was ninety nine percent committed, but
[19:49] Speaker 3: oh that one percent saved me.
[19:51] Speaker 4: Right.
[19:52] Speaker 1: Just to address Sam's goofiness with how evil he was,
[19:56] Speaker 1: I feel like he would have never been able to
[19:58] Speaker 1: do even a single ounce of it. About the three
[20:00] Speaker 1: other men, I feel like once those men were like
[20:05] Speaker 1: contributing the money, and then he had the time to
[20:09] Speaker 1: end a little bit more resources.
[20:11] Speaker 3: And also he got all the girls from.
[20:13] Speaker 1: Them, exactly right, that's a good point.
[20:15] Speaker 3: All of the women he had were from either those
[20:19] Speaker 3: men's daughters or their caretake keys.
[20:22] Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, so it kind yeah it just
[20:26] Speaker 1: power is interesting.
[20:28] Speaker 2: Yeah, look at how it can be.
[20:30] Speaker 5: Right, It's not just like pure charisma, Like, you also
[20:32] Speaker 5: need some of these you need support, you need material.
[20:36] Speaker 3: They kind of like fed the monster though.
[20:39] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[20:39] Speaker 3: Oh through the whole entire experience.
[20:41] Speaker 5: Indeed, indeed, okay, talk about running away from the cops.
[20:57] Speaker 1: We have to know.
[21:00] Speaker 2: If you want.
[21:01] Speaker 3: I really don't remember a lot of that. I remember
[21:04] Speaker 3: them coming in and asking me where the nine minor
[21:10] Speaker 3: girls were or they eight at the time. That was
[21:12] Speaker 3: eight that had ran away. I remember them coming in
[21:16] Speaker 3: and asking me, and at that point I had no idea. Yeah,
[21:19] Speaker 3: I really didn't know because they had gone with Maretta.
[21:23] Speaker 5: Oh sorry, okay, I'm skipping ahead. So just for context,
[21:25] Speaker 5: So the raid happened, Sam gets arrested, some of these
[21:30] Speaker 5: the underage girls get put into foster care, and.
[21:33] Speaker 3: Then they nine the nine underage nine girls that he
[21:38] Speaker 3: was claiming at saying that were his wives. Then they
[21:41] Speaker 3: went into foster care.
[21:43] Speaker 5: They ran away, and they and but they ran away
[21:46] Speaker 5: with the help of yes, with some of the adults,
[21:50] Speaker 5: adult women.
[21:51] Speaker 3: Right, We didn't really tell many to run away or anything.
[21:55] Speaker 3: That was something they came up with, and Sam told
[22:00] Speaker 3: them to. He kept telling them to. They actually ran
[22:03] Speaker 3: away like four times before that, but it was when
[22:06] Speaker 3: we were still in before Christine and Toga had been outed,
[22:10] Speaker 3: and so we would tell Christine and Toga, and Christine
[22:13] Speaker 3: would say tell them to cooperate. Just the faster the
[22:18] Speaker 3: more they cooperate, the sooner that the moms will get
[22:22] Speaker 3: them back. Then the DCS outed Christine and Sam had
[22:28] Speaker 3: us all caught all communication anything with Christine and Toga.
[22:34] Speaker 1: I still can't believe they did that this documentary really
[22:37] Speaker 1: highlights all the failures of our systems. You know. Number one,
[22:42] Speaker 1: you tell the police that a bunch of people are
[22:45] Speaker 1: being raped and they don't give a shit. Number Two,
[22:48] Speaker 1: you have to prove so much to get people involved
[22:52] Speaker 1: in then this detail that you're talking about now, as
[22:57] Speaker 1: well as just letting Sam call the girls find Yeah,
[23:01] Speaker 1: I know that was crazy.
[23:03] Speaker 3: He should have had his communication cut because he was
[23:06] Speaker 3: communicating with the minors through the adults horrible, which is
[23:09] Speaker 3: kind of weird because I wasn't like the lead person
[23:13] Speaker 3: in that. It was the moms. I mean, they weren't
[23:16] Speaker 3: my siblings, they weren't my kids. It was their moms
[23:20] Speaker 3: that the communication was coming through, and I was just
[23:24] Speaker 3: one of them going along with them.
[23:25] Speaker 5: So he's instructing from jail, Yes, the girls to run away.
[23:31] Speaker 3: Yeah, after Christine and Togo were cut off, then the
[23:34] Speaker 3: fourth time they ran doing what Sam told them to.
[23:38] Speaker 3: Then he said if they run again, like he encouraged
[23:42] Speaker 3: them to run, and then he told us go pick
[23:45] Speaker 3: them up and run, and so we did. We were
[23:50] Speaker 3: just being obedient, doing whatever he said. And that was
[23:55] Speaker 3: another time where I questioned, only very carefully. Then I said,
[24:01] Speaker 3: what they're going to do to us because they had
[24:03] Speaker 3: taken him, they'd taken them, right, and I was starting
[24:07] Speaker 3: to wonder, what's going to happen to us now, right right?
[24:11] Speaker 3: And the weird thing is this prison didn't even cross
[24:14] Speaker 3: my mind. I thought more of more raids, more interviews
[24:21] Speaker 3: and interrogations with the FBI, but not prison. But he
[24:27] Speaker 3: kind of blew that off and he said, well, they
[24:30] Speaker 3: already did the worst thing because they took me.
[24:32] Speaker 1: Oh my god.
[24:33] Speaker 3: And in the culty mindset that I was in the
[24:36] Speaker 3: I was just like, oh, yeah, that is the worst thing.
[24:38] Speaker 3: He risked our lives.
[24:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and yeah.
[24:43] Speaker 3: So we went down there and we picked him up
[24:45] Speaker 3: from under the freeway bridge. To this day, I have
[24:48] Speaker 3: no idea where those group homes were. I've never known
[24:52] Speaker 3: the addresses to them.
[24:54] Speaker 5: Oh oh well, okay, and that was Yeah, that was
[24:57] Speaker 5: like extremely orchestrated because it was more from more than
[25:00] Speaker 5: one home at the same time.
[25:02] Speaker 1: Yes, that's a lot of coordinations.
[25:04] Speaker 3: And a lot of it had to do with not
[25:07] Speaker 3: just the three that went and picked them up. We
[25:09] Speaker 3: were just the minions. It was the entire group.
[25:13] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[25:13] Speaker 5: So at that point, you're still a SAM believer and
[25:16] Speaker 5: then then what happens you get arrested?
[25:20] Speaker 3: I went so me I was there for picking up
[25:25] Speaker 3: three of them. There was eight of them, and then
[25:27] Speaker 3: we dropped them off with Maretta and she took all
[25:32] Speaker 3: eight of them to Washington and I went back to
[25:37] Speaker 3: the greenhouse. Then the cops showed up and they they
[25:41] Speaker 3: asked me my name, they asked me where. They a
[25:43] Speaker 3: ton of questions about where the minor girls were, and
[25:48] Speaker 3: I had no idea because there was no communication going
[25:52] Speaker 3: on at the time because they started cutting. They finally
[25:55] Speaker 3: started cutting Sam off and banned all his calls, so
[26:00] Speaker 3: we were all just lost what we're supposed to do.
[26:05] Speaker 3: And then after he asked him all these questions, then
[26:09] Speaker 3: he said, you're under arrest. The next thing I remembered,
[26:13] Speaker 3: I was running in the mountains.
[26:15] Speaker 2: So you you just took up.
[26:17] Speaker 3: Yes, it was adrenaline.
[26:19] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[26:20] Speaker 3: Seeing the video then I'm like, oh, that's what I did.
[26:25] Speaker 3: I had no.
[26:26] Speaker 5: Knowledge of this, watching an episode of Cops, which I
[26:29] Speaker 5: guess you never would have watched growing up.
[26:31] Speaker 1: But it's crazy. But it's you. It's tiny. You like,
[26:34] Speaker 1: it's so wild.
[26:36] Speaker 3: Yeah, it is kind of wild to me. Yeah. The
[26:39] Speaker 3: next thing memory I had I was running in the mountains,
[26:42] Speaker 3: and I started thinking, why am I under arrest? What
[26:47] Speaker 3: did I do? And am I really running from the cops?
[26:52] Speaker 3: Like this is this is wild? So I went back
[26:56] Speaker 3: to turn myself in. Didn't have the courage to climbed
[27:00] Speaker 3: up and then climbed underneath a box trailer in the
[27:03] Speaker 3: neighbor's yard and climbed up in the axle and waited
[27:06] Speaker 3: there all night.
[27:07] Speaker 1: It broke my heart when you said in the dock
[27:09] Speaker 1: that your lag froze.
[27:12] Speaker 3: It was it, it did, it froze really bad. I
[27:15] Speaker 3: had to go through a little bit of physical therapy
[27:17] Speaker 3: even in prison.
[27:18] Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
[27:20] Speaker 3: Wow.
[27:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, it just really contextualizes how much pain.
[27:25] Speaker 5: And yeah, yeah, you have had the most one of
[27:30] Speaker 5: the more extreme journeys of folks we've talked to on
[27:33] Speaker 5: here for sure, I mean.
[27:35] Speaker 2: On the planet Earth.
[27:36] Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's like, well we talked, we
[27:39] Speaker 5: talked to people from cults every week, but like, this
[27:41] Speaker 5: is just so extreme. So we are dying to know
[27:45] Speaker 5: about prison if you're willing to share.
[27:49] Speaker 1: But I guess before we get there.
[27:51] Speaker 5: I mean, you obviously had to go to you get arrested,
[27:56] Speaker 5: you go to trial like that must have been terrifying.
[28:00] Speaker 3: I went to It was interesting how even after turning
[28:04] Speaker 3: myself in, I didn't know why until three days later
[28:09] Speaker 3: when I was standing in front of the judge and
[28:11] Speaker 3: the judge explained why I was arrested, and allegedly it
[28:17] Speaker 3: was for the kidnapping. It was conspiracy to kidnapping because
[28:20] Speaker 3: I was involved in that. And I remember even then
[28:24] Speaker 3: thinking thoughts like I didn't kidnap and I didn't go
[28:29] Speaker 3: on their property they ran. It was very a very
[28:34] Speaker 3: confusing time. But I also remember telling my attorney literally
[28:42] Speaker 3: days after my arrest that I was really glad to
[28:46] Speaker 3: be in there because it was over and I wasn't
[28:48] Speaker 3: talking about like I was Again, I wasn't against Sam
[28:51] Speaker 3: at the moment. I was more like thinking, God is
[28:54] Speaker 3: going to justify me not having to do what he's
[28:59] Speaker 3: saying because I'm.
[29:01] Speaker 1: In here, right. So God was through breaking you guys up.
[29:06] Speaker 1: God was kind of giving you an out from his
[29:08] Speaker 1: control for a minute to regroup.
[29:11] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's what it was.
[29:14] Speaker 5: The mindset was crazy, you have to go to prison
[29:17] Speaker 5: to get your freedom? Is that's bunkers.
[29:20] Speaker 1: It was.
[29:21] Speaker 3: It was very culture shocking.
[29:25] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, okay, tell us who was like the
[29:28] Speaker 1: first person you met, what was the like, what was
[29:30] Speaker 1: it like getting.
[29:31] Speaker 3: I actually don't really remember a lot of the names,
[29:34] Speaker 3: like for the first few months because I was under
[29:37] Speaker 3: this trence of culture shock. Then the news came over
[29:43] Speaker 3: of the whole traffic stop in flag Staff, and now
[29:47] Speaker 3: I wasn't there, and so I got beat up really
[29:50] Speaker 3: bad within the first two weeks. They put me in
[29:55] Speaker 3: segregation for six weeks in medical and until I healed,
[29:59] Speaker 3: and then they put me back in gen Pop where
[30:01] Speaker 3: I was, but was kind of crazy. The people and
[30:04] Speaker 3: there were so interesting. They were so fascinating to me
[30:07] Speaker 3: because my whole life everybody was the same, but to
[30:11] Speaker 3: see the individuality and the variety, and these were all
[30:15] Speaker 3: criminals or waiting to you know, they weren't convicted, but
[30:19] Speaker 3: there were people that had done bad things and waiting
[30:23] Speaker 3: for the judge to decide their sentences. But they were
[30:26] Speaker 3: just so fascinating to me. And even the ones that
[30:30] Speaker 3: had beat me up, Like when I came back and
[30:32] Speaker 3: they were they were kind of strange because they were like,
[30:37] Speaker 3: oh my god, like you're pretty brave to come back here,
[30:40] Speaker 3: like like I had a choice and then wanted to
[30:44] Speaker 3: be my friend.
[30:46] Speaker 1: It was.
[30:48] Speaker 3: It was really strange.
[30:50] Speaker 1: Did you make friends with anyone in particular?
[30:53] Speaker 3: Like?
[30:53] Speaker 1: Are there women you're like?
[30:55] Speaker 3: That?
[30:55] Speaker 1: Girl? Ruled?
[30:56] Speaker 3: I mostly just I wouldn't necessarily call them friends because
[31:02] Speaker 3: I knew nothing about their life before and there was
[31:05] Speaker 3: no way to fact check it. But I did what's
[31:09] Speaker 3: the word homies? I guess I did have a lot
[31:11] Speaker 3: of homies and there we did did a lot of
[31:16] Speaker 3: things together, and we like play games, and I learned
[31:19] Speaker 3: how to gamble and play different stop at gambling games,
[31:23] Speaker 3: card games, and even different board games like scrabble, Monopoly
[31:27] Speaker 3: and chess and things like that.
[31:29] Speaker 2: Were you like having some fun at first?
[31:32] Speaker 3: No? At first it was so it was so numb,
[31:37] Speaker 3: and I was still processing everything and questioning, starting to
[31:42] Speaker 3: wonder about my belief. Of course, yeah, like I have
[31:46] Speaker 3: been perfectly obedient to God. I have done everything he
[31:49] Speaker 3: wanted me to do, and here I am in prison
[31:52] Speaker 3: for what's going on.
[31:54] Speaker 1: I One of my favorite parts of the documentary, well
[31:58] Speaker 1: it's so again a failure in the system is when
[32:01] Speaker 1: they put you in a cell next to Sam like
[32:04] Speaker 1: so you guys hate.
[32:05] Speaker 3: I never understood why they did that.
[32:07] Speaker 1: So maddening because that could have gone the exact opposite
[32:12] Speaker 1: direction that it went.
[32:13] Speaker 3: It could have, and it did. Prison actually did that
[32:16] Speaker 3: with some of the other adult women. Then it drove
[32:20] Speaker 3: them deeper.
[32:21] Speaker 1: In of course. So they put you in a holding
[32:24] Speaker 1: cell next to Sam so you can talk to this
[32:26] Speaker 1: person that you're finally getting some freedom from. And he goes, oh,
[32:28] Speaker 1: it's so good to talk to you. I haven't talked
[32:30] Speaker 1: to anybody in a year.
[32:32] Speaker 3: That was He said a lot more than that, but
[32:34] Speaker 3: that was just the only part so they could actually
[32:36] Speaker 3: fit in the documentary. But it was like several things
[32:39] Speaker 3: that he said that I started recognizing he's lying.
[32:43] Speaker 1: That's a lie, right he has You were like, yes,
[32:46] Speaker 1: it hasn't been a year since.
[32:49] Speaker 3: Even the thoughts, even the thoughts like that. Then I
[32:52] Speaker 3: had to build up to those like mm hmm. In
[32:55] Speaker 3: prison was when I got introduced to different novels and
[32:58] Speaker 3: self help books. And because I was so confused about
[33:04] Speaker 3: my beliefs, then I read through the entire history of
[33:10] Speaker 3: the church because of the different LDS people that were
[33:13] Speaker 3: in there, and they have to grant their religious beliefs,
[33:16] Speaker 3: so they had all the journals, they had all the
[33:18] Speaker 3: history of the church stuff. They had a lot of
[33:23] Speaker 3: a lot of like scriptures in there, and being raised
[33:26] Speaker 3: on these scriptures and now being so confused. Then I
[33:31] Speaker 3: went and did this deep dive, and the dots still
[33:36] Speaker 3: weren't connecting. And then I started reading into I'm reading
[33:41] Speaker 3: into other religions. I read fourteen different versions of the Bible. Wow,
[33:46] Speaker 3: I mean twenty one months is a long time in there,
[33:48] Speaker 3: and I was being a really fastrated. Then I would
[33:54] Speaker 3: just go through these books, and then I started reading
[33:57] Speaker 3: self help books, and that was when I started to
[34:01] Speaker 3: question things because I would read books like there was
[34:04] Speaker 3: one that I really gravitated toward and it was called
[34:08] Speaker 3: The Pathway to Surrender Letting Go, and the whole book
[34:11] Speaker 3: was about owning the truth. And my entire life, I
[34:17] Speaker 3: had been taught to keep everything secret, right or lie
[34:22] Speaker 3: about it, and then here in this book then it's
[34:25] Speaker 3: saying it sets you free if you just own it
[34:29] Speaker 3: and tell the truth. And that was one of the
[34:36] Speaker 3: that was when I started to wonder, like, so why
[34:40] Speaker 3: do I believe the way I believe? Because it would
[34:42] Speaker 3: talk about that too, and it said, also question everything,
[34:46] Speaker 3: because that's the only way you're going to find the
[34:48] Speaker 3: truth is if you question everything. And being not allowed
[34:52] Speaker 3: to question anything growing up. Then it was just so
[34:55] Speaker 3: fascinating to me.
[34:56] Speaker 1: Whoa yeah.
[34:58] Speaker 3: So in that mindset, I still didn't dare question Sam
[35:05] Speaker 3: or because every time I questioned him, in my mind,
[35:07] Speaker 3: it would defer to Warren Jess because they were very
[35:10] Speaker 3: much the same. And Sam was using his trainings, he
[35:13] Speaker 3: was using his pershonal diaries, and that's where he was
[35:16] Speaker 3: getting a lot of his ideas, right. It wasn't until
[35:22] Speaker 3: that court hearing and that time sitting there and listening
[35:27] Speaker 3: to him talk to me for four hours and just
[35:31] Speaker 3: lie after a lie, and I was in a position
[35:34] Speaker 3: I was like in my mindset where I'm starting to
[35:37] Speaker 3: recognize this.
[35:38] Speaker 5: So you had already read this book that talked about
[35:42] Speaker 5: the value of truth when you were placed next to
[35:44] Speaker 5: Sam in the cell.
[35:45] Speaker 3: Yes, wow, thank god too?
[35:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, thank god, thank god?
[35:48] Speaker 1: Wow?
[35:49] Speaker 2: Did you play kahem? Are you like? Oh my gosh, yes, yes.
[35:52] Speaker 3: At first I did. Yeah. I remember just being so
[35:59] Speaker 3: shocked at his bold audacity to lie like so much.
[36:03] Speaker 3: And then in my mind I started questioning things even
[36:06] Speaker 3: sitting there, like, oh my god, he's lying to me.
[36:09] Speaker 3: How many times has he lied to me? And then
[36:12] Speaker 3: everything started like coming up in my mind like this
[36:16] Speaker 3: whole time, he's been lying to me, and he hurt
[36:19] Speaker 3: me so much in all these different areas, and he
[36:22] Speaker 3: would use God and he would use a lot of
[36:25] Speaker 3: blackmailing and lying, and it was yeah, in those moments
[36:32] Speaker 3: that I would so I would started to kind of yeah,
[36:37] Speaker 3: play into it, and he would lie more. And then
[36:42] Speaker 3: when they finally came, his like came to take us
[36:47] Speaker 3: back to the prisoner, back to the jail. Then when
[36:50] Speaker 3: I was walking away, the last words that I ever
[36:53] Speaker 3: said to him is you lie to me. Wow. And
[36:57] Speaker 3: then that was the last.
[36:59] Speaker 1: Things I have, Oh God, chills.
[37:01] Speaker 3: That was the last time I saw him. After that,
[37:04] Speaker 3: I asked my attorneys, I never want to see him again.
[37:08] Speaker 3: If there's every a group court hearing, which shows a
[37:12] Speaker 3: lot of those, I don't want to be there. So
[37:15] Speaker 3: they started to wait my presence and my attorneys would go,
[37:18] Speaker 3: but I didn't have to go anymore.
[37:19] Speaker 1: Wow.
[37:20] Speaker 3: So that was the last time I saw him. And
[37:23] Speaker 3: the last words.
[37:24] Speaker 1: Oh my god, I still have chills. They're still chilling.
[37:27] Speaker 1: The chills are chilling. I'm crying, I'm chilling, I'm laughing. No,
[37:34] Speaker 1: I'm like, how long have you been in jail at
[37:36] Speaker 1: that point.
[37:37] Speaker 3: By once I think it was was arrested in I
[37:42] Speaker 3: was arrested in December of twenty twenty two, on the
[37:48] Speaker 3: second of December, and then I was I think it
[37:51] Speaker 3: was around May when that happened.
[37:54] Speaker 5: I mean, it's amazing. It's like you've been educating yourself.
[38:00] Speaker 5: If you've been learning, you've been learning, and then he
[38:02] Speaker 5: just tells on himself like you just kind of did yeah,
[38:06] Speaker 5: like he kind.
[38:07] Speaker 2: Of have to say any do that in that moment.
[38:11] Speaker 3: Well he was so dumb, he really was, But I said, awesome.
[38:16] Speaker 3: I mean it was after that that I started to
[38:20] Speaker 3: deconstruct even more and more because I remember going back
[38:23] Speaker 3: to the jail and then I finally dared think questions
[38:30] Speaker 3: against Warren Jeffs And that was when basically the house
[38:34] Speaker 3: of cards just crumbled. Wow. And I started like, oh
[38:39] Speaker 3: my god, I was born and raised in lies. Yeah,
[38:45] Speaker 3: And it was insane, it was scary. I went through
[38:49] Speaker 3: very The next few months were very dark for me,
[38:54] Speaker 3: attempted suicide. It was just the grief, the loss and
[39:00] Speaker 3: knowing I'm never going back to any anything that has
[39:03] Speaker 3: to do with the FLDS.
[39:05] Speaker 1: Wow.
[39:05] Speaker 3: And then the old whole outside world was so scary
[39:09] Speaker 3: to me. I knew nothing about it. I was getting
[39:13] Speaker 3: a crush course on it in prison.
[39:15] Speaker 1: Yeah, it was still so scary.
[39:18] Speaker 5: It was well, yeah, because that's not that's also just
[39:21] Speaker 5: that's the other extreme, right, Like, yes.
[39:24] Speaker 3: It was definitely something that I've had to heal from.
[39:29] Speaker 2: And to deconstruct that fast.
[39:31] Speaker 1: You would like in the normal world, they'd be like,
[39:33] Speaker 1: you should go to and patient treatment, you know.
[39:36] Speaker 3: I actually did, Oh good, I have for six months
[39:39] Speaker 3: and I went to therapy. I went like twice.
[39:44] Speaker 1: A week, and during your prisons today.
[39:47] Speaker 3: Yes, because I was so after realizing the truth and
[39:51] Speaker 3: then going through these dark months of suicidal and the grief,
[39:56] Speaker 3: the loss, the anger, and the shame and guilt for
[40:00] Speaker 3: even existing, then started going to therapy. And even then
[40:06] Speaker 3: I was so terrified to open up to the FBI
[40:10] Speaker 3: after I knew too. When I finally opened up to
[40:14] Speaker 3: the FBI, it was an eight month period. In six
[40:17] Speaker 3: months of that time, I was in therapy and they
[40:20] Speaker 3: were talking me through a lot of this. And when
[40:25] Speaker 3: I did find the open up to the FBI, just
[40:29] Speaker 3: accepting that I had been lied to my whole life
[40:32] Speaker 3: and here I am with this huge criminal charge that
[40:36] Speaker 3: didn't really even belong to me. Then, just the acceptance
[40:42] Speaker 3: of that was it took a lot to accept that
[40:47] Speaker 3: I had been lied to and the only way forward
[40:50] Speaker 3: is to completely let go of everything in my past,
[40:57] Speaker 3: and that included my family.
[40:59] Speaker 1: Wow, oh, are you going through that?
[41:02] Speaker 5: So you're able to go to a therapy program, which
[41:04] Speaker 5: that's great that they had that available to you, But
[41:07] Speaker 5: are you talking to anyone anyone else about what about
[41:12] Speaker 5: this deconstruction that's happening.
[41:15] Speaker 3: No. At the time, it was just I would get
[41:20] Speaker 3: on the phones with the people that were still in
[41:23] Speaker 3: and every time they brought it up, then I would
[41:25] Speaker 3: just I don't want to talk about it. I don't
[41:26] Speaker 3: want to talk about it, And so we would talk
[41:29] Speaker 3: about anything else other than that. And Moretta was in
[41:34] Speaker 3: the pod next to me, and she was going through
[41:37] Speaker 3: the same thing, but we couldn't talk about it, and
[41:41] Speaker 3: even our attorneys were warning us not to talk about
[41:43] Speaker 3: it to each other the case and our lives before
[41:46] Speaker 3: and everything, but we started to hint things and it
[41:49] Speaker 3: wasn't until trial that I found out Moretta was also
[41:55] Speaker 3: had turned and was on the opposite side, and she
[41:59] Speaker 3: was also testifying against him, and that was such a
[42:04] Speaker 3: relief to be like, oh, I have somebody on my
[42:07] Speaker 3: side here.
[42:08] Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I cannot imagine how isolating that must have
[42:12] Speaker 5: felt and how dark that must have been. I mean, yeah,
[42:16] Speaker 5: there's just like no worse way to like exactly what
[42:20] Speaker 5: Megan was saying, Like it's already so challenging for people.
[42:26] Speaker 5: It's like turning their whole lives upside down, like everything they've.
[42:32] Speaker 1: Believed in is wrong.
[42:33] Speaker 5: Everyone they love is like they're alienated from them now,
[42:36] Speaker 5: Like no matter what, that's traumatic and no matter what,
[42:39] Speaker 5: that's like the crazy life transition. But then also to
[42:43] Speaker 5: be going through it alone in jail for months, like girl, yep,
[42:50] Speaker 5: oh my god.
[42:52] Speaker 3: I don't know how I got through it, honestly. Yeah,
[42:55] Speaker 3: even I look back on those days and the things
[42:59] Speaker 3: that were going through inside and the realization the transition,
[43:04] Speaker 3: the deconstruction, It was so heavy. But I do remember
[43:09] Speaker 3: having thoughts of a year towards Sam and in my
[43:14] Speaker 3: mind thinking as soon as I'm getting out, I'm making
[43:17] Speaker 3: a commitment that I will do anything I can to
[43:19] Speaker 3: stop him and anybody like him, because I was so angry.
[43:24] Speaker 3: But the anchor came after the grief and loss, and
[43:29] Speaker 3: I journaled a lot of it.
[43:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, and drew a lot too.
[43:32] Speaker 1: It seems like you got to be back with your
[43:36] Speaker 1: artist self that was like pushed down when you were.
[43:38] Speaker 3: Yeah. I also would write a lot about it too.
[43:41] Speaker 3: I wrote poems and got into writing different songs about it.
[43:46] Speaker 3: That helped me process a lot, helped me release it
[43:49] Speaker 3: a lot was my art and my poems, nice and
[43:53] Speaker 3: singing about it. I even remember the song that just
[43:57] Speaker 3: resonated with me because I had no exposure to the
[44:01] Speaker 3: outside music it was. It came on MTV and it
[44:06] Speaker 3: was Olivia Rodrigo singing Vampire. I love that song and
[44:10] Speaker 3: I was I remember feeling like, this is my song?
[44:14] Speaker 3: He did he sold me for parts.
[44:16] Speaker 1: And yeah, he.
[44:18] Speaker 3: Everything about that song. I just resonated with it.
[44:21] Speaker 1: Wow. I wish we could play it.
[44:22] Speaker 5: I bet we can't get but we're not allowed to,
[44:24] Speaker 5: but I wish I could.
[44:28] Speaker 2: I just did it justice. Oh, I know that sounded
[44:30] Speaker 2: exactly what the same?
[44:31] Speaker 5: Yeah, Olly, I'm sorry, but I just remembered when you
[44:37] Speaker 5: came to film Quest and showed a video it was her,
[44:41] Speaker 5: right or was it someone else that was her?
[44:44] Speaker 2: It was her?
[44:45] Speaker 1: Do you want to tell that story?
[44:45] Speaker 4: So?
[44:46] Speaker 3: Yeah, So I recorded my right after prison. It was
[44:49] Speaker 3: like a few months after then. I videoed myself singing
[44:53] Speaker 3: Vampire and some of my friends in New York contacted
[44:58] Speaker 3: Olivia Rodrigol and end it to her. I think I
[45:03] Speaker 3: would have done a better job if they if I
[45:05] Speaker 3: knew they were going to send it to the artist. Anyway,
[45:08] Speaker 3: So last year, on my birthday, she reached out to me,
[45:11] Speaker 3: what and she was like, I heard your story and
[45:13] Speaker 3: I'm rooting for you, and you did such a very
[45:15] Speaker 3: good cover of that song. Oh I'm still blown away
[45:19] Speaker 3: thinking about That's unbelieved.
[45:21] Speaker 1: I know, it's so cool. That was so cool of her. Yeah, wow,
[45:25] Speaker 1: how did you have friends in New York?
[45:27] Speaker 3: They were through the filming of the Netflix documentary Who
[45:32] Speaker 3: Who Was? It?
[45:32] Speaker 1: Was it that it was like the dark people nails Sharon.
[45:36] Speaker 3: I think that's how Sarah how to say his name
[45:40] Speaker 3: and his girlfriend agree that connected.
[45:44] Speaker 2: That deconstructing that fast and moving to.
[45:46] Speaker 1: New York and I integrating And did you get out first?
[45:55] Speaker 5: I just want to know the timeline of Sam getting
[45:58] Speaker 5: convicted versus you getting out which one came first.
[46:02] Speaker 3: So I was actually released on pre trial in September
[46:06] Speaker 3: of twenty twenty four. Okay. Then I went to sentencing
[46:11] Speaker 3: four months later before Sam was sentenced.
[46:15] Speaker 1: Okay, got it.
[46:17] Speaker 3: During that time, then the whole trial happened against Liddell
[46:21] Speaker 3: and Torrance.
[46:22] Speaker 1: Okay, did you go to any event.
[46:25] Speaker 3: Yes, I had to testify. I was on the stand
[46:27] Speaker 3: for two days.
[46:28] Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
[46:29] Speaker 3: Yeah, was that rough? It kind of was. It was
[46:33] Speaker 3: five days after I had been released from prison. WHOA,
[46:37] Speaker 3: the overwhelming being reintroduced to society, but not just introduced
[46:43] Speaker 3: to society, but to a new life that I had
[46:48] Speaker 3: never experienced. Plus five days later sitting on the stand
[46:55] Speaker 3: talking about this very sensitive, horrific things that happened to
[47:00] Speaker 3: me and things that I had witnessed. It was a
[47:03] Speaker 3: lot of pressure. And even after trial then I remember
[47:09] Speaker 3: this break in the middle of testifying and going into
[47:12] Speaker 3: the restroom and just throwing up and throwing up, and
[47:16] Speaker 3: then I'd go back out there. You don't on the stand.
[47:19] Speaker 1: Was anyone there with you to support you?
[47:23] Speaker 3: My aunt Carol? Okay, she was the one that came
[47:27] Speaker 3: down there and signed it to because I can't remember
[47:33] Speaker 3: what it's called, but you have to have somebody that
[47:35] Speaker 3: has that you're signed off to when you're on a
[47:36] Speaker 3: great trial, and she was the one that I was
[47:39] Speaker 3: signed to okay, and then she supported me through the
[47:44] Speaker 3: trial and the four next months. And during those months
[47:50] Speaker 3: I got really sick because everything was so overwhelming, and
[47:56] Speaker 3: I got really sick and I couldn't hold anything down
[47:59] Speaker 3: and lost a lot of weight, and it was really rough,
[48:05] Speaker 3: and I didn't feel free at all. During those months.
[48:10] Speaker 3: I felt more overwhelming and scared and everything was so
[48:16] Speaker 3: new and then readapting to society. I remember a lot
[48:21] Speaker 3: of nights I would sleep on the floor because the
[48:23] Speaker 3: bed was too soft and it was too quiet, and
[48:27] Speaker 3: being able to just walk around without an officer yelling
[48:30] Speaker 3: at you for being in the wrong place, and it
[48:33] Speaker 3: was definitely something I had to adapt to, as well
[48:37] Speaker 3: as the choices, the abundance of opportunities and choices that
[48:41] Speaker 3: I could do with my life.
[48:43] Speaker 2: It was a lot to accept, overwhelming.
[48:46] Speaker 1: Where were you living?
[48:48] Speaker 3: I was living with my aunt and I went back
[48:51] Speaker 3: to Colorado City and was living with her.
[48:54] Speaker 1: Do you remember the first moment that it maybe felt
[49:00] Speaker 1: more exciting than scarier, like like the future might be exciting.
[49:06] Speaker 3: It was after I was sentenced, because during those few
[49:10] Speaker 3: months of being released on pre trial and sentencing. I
[49:15] Speaker 3: had no idea what was going to happen with my life. Yeah,
[49:19] Speaker 3: I didn't know if they were going to send me back.
[49:21] Speaker 3: I didn't know if if I should. I didn't know
[49:24] Speaker 3: if I dared plan for a future.
[49:27] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[49:27] Speaker 3: Right. It was after I was sentenced. Then it was
[49:32] Speaker 3: such a relief. Yeah, And I started feeling like I
[49:36] Speaker 3: could explore more. And then I started experiencing more. And
[49:43] Speaker 3: I don't remember the exact moments, but I do remember,
[49:48] Speaker 3: like several other things. I don't remember if it was
[49:50] Speaker 3: the first moment, but I remember the first time I
[49:52] Speaker 3: got to eat out at a restaurant and that was
[49:55] Speaker 3: exciting and new. And the first time I went to
[49:58] Speaker 3: the theater and watched a movie. Yeah, that was another
[50:01] Speaker 3: very exciting thing. And I started to save the different
[50:05] Speaker 3: tickets and receipts and different things that I tried for
[50:09] Speaker 3: the first time. Wow, And I started this book called
[50:12] Speaker 3: My First Time Book. Oh, like the first time going
[50:16] Speaker 3: to Vegas and walking down the strip. It was so
[50:19] Speaker 3: mind blowing.
[50:21] Speaker 1: I'm so wow.
[50:24] Speaker 2: I mean, and I relate to this.
[50:25] Speaker 1: I don't mean any shade by this because I relate
[50:27] Speaker 1: to this for my own upbringing, but it's like bringing
[50:29] Speaker 1: somebody from the seventeen hundreds to like twenty twenty whatever,
[50:34] Speaker 1: and you're like, here you go, and you're like, like
[50:37] Speaker 1: so many lights, so many sounds, I can't even imagine.
[50:41] Speaker 3: Yeah, I did. I do keep even now then, I
[50:46] Speaker 3: have kept this book of my first time book, first
[50:49] Speaker 3: time I went to New York, the first time I
[50:51] Speaker 3: went up to Idaho, like different places that I went. Yes,
[50:55] Speaker 3: I call it my first time book, and I have
[50:57] Speaker 3: tons of different pictures and receipts and the feelings about it.
[51:01] Speaker 1: What's the most exciting thing you've done for the first time?
[51:05] Speaker 3: Oh, all of them are quite equal. And I don't
[51:11] Speaker 3: remember my first roller coaster ride, and it was at
[51:14] Speaker 3: the New York New York in Vegas.
[51:17] Speaker 2: That's a scary one.
[51:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't. To me.
[51:21] Speaker 3: It felt like I was finally equalizing the emotions inside.
[51:27] Speaker 1: Basically you're like, this is what it feels like in
[51:30] Speaker 1: my body.
[51:30] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[51:32] Speaker 3: Yeah, I was totally chilled, just relaxed.
[51:38] Speaker 2: So funny Gnomes, I can't believe that.
[51:42] Speaker 5: How did you How did you reconnect with my mom
[51:44] Speaker 5: because last when you went into jail you hated her.
[51:48] Speaker 3: Yes, it took I would say two years exactly, because
[51:53] Speaker 3: I went to prison on decen December second, and was
[51:57] Speaker 3: and then was sentenced on December second of two, twenty four,
[52:01] Speaker 3: exactly two years later.
[52:03] Speaker 2: Oh wow.
[52:04] Speaker 3: So I don't know how the dates lined up, which
[52:07] Speaker 3: is kind of ironic with the whole trial too. The
[52:10] Speaker 3: first day that I testified was September thirteenth, which was
[52:14] Speaker 3: two years to the day exactly from the day that
[52:18] Speaker 3: was we were raided by the FBI in twenty twenty two. Wow,
[52:22] Speaker 3: So it's kind of ironic how things landed like that.
[52:26] Speaker 3: But on my way down to sentencing, I at this
[52:32] Speaker 3: time was still very angry at Christine for what she
[52:35] Speaker 3: had done, and I didn't understand her, and I also
[52:39] Speaker 3: I was very against them. I hated him and was
[52:43] Speaker 3: committed to talking out against him, and yet I didn't
[52:49] Speaker 3: understand Christine's role because the whole time I knew her,
[52:54] Speaker 3: then she was kind of befriending him and then betrayed
[52:59] Speaker 3: us with that. So I didn't like her for those
[53:06] Speaker 3: those two years, but I was really sorry for the
[53:09] Speaker 3: things that I'd sent her, and I remember even in
[53:11] Speaker 3: prison then I texted Tolga and told him how sorry
[53:15] Speaker 3: I was. From prison, I had called her for really
[53:19] Speaker 3: bad names and texted her and toldan called him trader
[53:24] Speaker 3: and all this stuff. But so after I was released,
[53:28] Speaker 3: then I finally felt like I could could find in
[53:32] Speaker 3: my aunt and I told her what I felt and
[53:35] Speaker 3: how I felt about Christine and Tolga. She didn't agree,
[53:39] Speaker 3: and she would just say things like, I think that
[53:41] Speaker 3: you should talk to her first. And little did I
[53:45] Speaker 3: know that she was in cohoots with Christine and she
[53:48] Speaker 3: was telling Christine how I was doing. I wasn't allowed
[53:51] Speaker 3: to talk to her during those months because of all
[53:53] Speaker 3: the trial stuff, and she was another witness in the trial.
[53:56] Speaker 3: It was Yeah, it was a very intense time. But
[54:01] Speaker 3: so on the way down to sentencing, then Christine sent
[54:05] Speaker 3: me a podcast, actually with You. Oh yes, it was
[54:11] Speaker 3: a trust me podcast of her telling briefly telling her
[54:16] Speaker 3: story what happened to her. I listened to that on
[54:19] Speaker 3: the way down to Phoenix and had an entire paradigm shift.
[54:25] Speaker 3: I had no idea what her life was. I didn't
[54:28] Speaker 3: know why she did what she did until I listened
[54:32] Speaker 3: to that, and I had this whole I don't know awakening, like,
[54:40] Speaker 3: oh my god, our lives are so similar. She went
[54:43] Speaker 3: through exact same experiences as me. The next day, when
[54:48] Speaker 3: I was sentenced to time served and I knew that
[54:52] Speaker 3: I was safe and I would not be going back
[54:54] Speaker 3: and I was free, then I told my aunt that
[55:00] Speaker 3: I really needed to talk to Christine. And the next
[55:03] Speaker 3: day we went and talked to her and it ended
[55:06] Speaker 3: up being a very long conversation. We were up all
[55:10] Speaker 3: night and it was emotional. And what was so interesting
[55:17] Speaker 3: that day was the first thing she said to me was,
[55:20] Speaker 3: you don't have to prove yourself. I already know. I
[55:24] Speaker 3: already know what you've been through, And up until then
[55:29] Speaker 3: then I felt like I was constantly trying to prove
[55:34] Speaker 3: myself that I was a good person. Anyway, that was
[55:39] Speaker 3: when I reconnected and we just got closer and closer
[55:42] Speaker 3: since she became like my adopted godmother and.
[55:47] Speaker 5: Oh, I mean Sam, Yeah, she's like she's America's mother.
[55:54] Speaker 3: I feel like she she played such a big, huge part,
[55:59] Speaker 3: a big role in my deconstructing because she knows about
[56:05] Speaker 3: the outside world a lot more than me, and she's
[56:08] Speaker 3: not helped me navigate my life, and I feel like
[56:12] Speaker 3: that's a huge reason why I'm out so much and
[56:15] Speaker 3: I've been able to process and deconstruct so fast was
[56:21] Speaker 3: because of her.
[56:23] Speaker 1: Yeah that's amazing. Well how are you doing now? How
[56:26] Speaker 1: are you feeling?
[56:27] Speaker 5: You have the whole world is knows who you are
[56:31] Speaker 5: now and hopefully even seems like very supportive, like what
[56:36] Speaker 5: does the future whole?
[56:37] Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't expect thus much support. It was crazy,
[56:43] Speaker 3: Like when I did this show, I was expecting more
[56:45] Speaker 3: hate because I was being very vulnerable telling exactly how
[56:50] Speaker 3: it was very honest, and I expected more judgment and hate.
[56:57] Speaker 3: But it has been the expect talk of that, except
[57:01] Speaker 3: with a lot of local people.
[57:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, but there, that's a whole other thing.
[57:06] Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm still I'm getting used to it. I guess
[57:11] Speaker 3: it's kind of new to be recognized everywhere.
[57:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my gosh, So.
[57:17] Speaker 3: It is something I'm getting used to. I don't know.
[57:20] Speaker 3: I feel like I did. I was the one that
[57:23] Speaker 3: was very committed in talking about this and bringing this awareness,
[57:27] Speaker 3: and so I want to just accept this new life
[57:33] Speaker 3: that I'm getting have to at this point.
[57:37] Speaker 5: Well, I am so proud of you. I can't believe
[57:41] Speaker 5: how far you've come. I mean, we all can't. It's
[57:44] Speaker 5: amazing to see you now, a free woman thinking for herself,
[57:50] Speaker 5: looking so beautiful.
[57:52] Speaker 3: Thank you.
[57:53] Speaker 2: It's so inspired.
[57:54] Speaker 5: I know, and you you're dating and I'm just like,
[57:58] Speaker 5: I don't know, it's amazing.
[57:59] Speaker 1: You're so impressive. Gnomes, thank you. Yeah, You're just a
[58:04] Speaker 1: force of nature and letting us be a part of it.
[58:08] Speaker 3: I want to prove that you can recover from really
[58:12] Speaker 3: horrible things that happened in your past. You can recover.
[58:15] Speaker 3: It takes a lot of work inside, but it's possible.
[58:18] Speaker 1: Can you give somebody who's maybe in the darkest moment,
[58:22] Speaker 1: like you were in the jail, like just something like
[58:26] Speaker 1: like that they can hang on to, or like anything
[58:29] Speaker 1: that helped you kind of hang in there?
[58:32] Speaker 3: A quote I remember repeating to myself a lot even
[58:36] Speaker 3: in there after I started coming out of very dark
[58:40] Speaker 3: depression and grief and loss, and I started saying to
[58:44] Speaker 3: myself a lot whenever I would get into this suicidal
[58:48] Speaker 3: mindset that I would pull myself out of it with
[58:52] Speaker 3: I'll be okay either way, and I'd just tell myself
[58:55] Speaker 3: that over and over. It was like this motto in
[58:59] Speaker 3: my mind. And then I also remember, I think is
[59:03] Speaker 3: seeing other people that I idolized, that had left a
[59:08] Speaker 3: cult and became someone amazing. Then I would look up
[59:14] Speaker 3: to them and just be like, if they can, I
[59:16] Speaker 3: can too. With somebody that's still deep inside a cult,
[59:21] Speaker 3: then I feel like the best thing to do is
[59:24] Speaker 3: not talk against their perpetrator directly, but try to drop
[59:28] Speaker 3: hints that are parallel until they come to their own conclusion.
[59:33] Speaker 1: Hints have been I mean, I haven't heard the word
[59:35] Speaker 1: hint and so long. And hints were such a big
[59:38] Speaker 1: part of this documentary and this conversation, and it's a
[59:41] Speaker 1: great point, like Lola's mom At one point, Sam is
[59:45] Speaker 1: going off about some stupid bullshit and Lola's mom is like, no,
[59:49] Speaker 1: that's a really good point. You should read The Gift
[59:51] Speaker 1: of Fear about you know, drop the hints to us. Yeah,
[59:56] Speaker 1: and you know what, he wouldn't let us read that book,
[59:59] Speaker 1: of course, not it first, let.
[1:00:01] Speaker 3: Us read it. But I read it in prisons later.
[1:00:04] Speaker 2: Yeah, and I did good. And it's a good book. Yeah.
[1:00:08] Speaker 1: But but like hints, it is true that even subconsciously,
[1:00:12] Speaker 1: maybe people are picking up on something. It's just a
[1:00:14] Speaker 1: little seed, just plant a little baby passive, aggressive.
[1:00:19] Speaker 3: Yeah, not too direct either.
[1:00:21] Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, it's hot.
[1:00:24] Speaker 5: I mean, it's it's a really challenging thing. To know
[1:00:27] Speaker 5: exactly how to do correctly and like we might exactly correctly.
[1:00:30] Speaker 3: Even me. Then I feel like there's a school like
[1:00:34] Speaker 3: you can only lead a horse to water, it's up
[1:00:36] Speaker 3: to them to drink. Yeah, totally, and as many hints
[1:00:39] Speaker 3: that you drop, then it's still up to them to realize.
[1:00:44] Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's important. Well, Normes, what are what's
[1:00:49] Speaker 5: on the docket? What are you doing next? Where do
[1:00:51] Speaker 5: people find you?
[1:00:54] Speaker 3: I have Instagram at gnomes underscore b the same on TikTok.
[1:01:00] Speaker 3: Hopefully I start a YouTube channel a little soon. I'll
[1:01:03] Speaker 3: be talking more about my story and my deconstructing through
[1:01:10] Speaker 3: that and as well as I've really been getting into
[1:01:14] Speaker 3: a lot of seeing I have a vocal coach that
[1:01:20] Speaker 3: I've been taking lessons from, Adriana McPhee her name is
[1:01:24] Speaker 3: and Toga's introduced me to different producers and songwriters and
[1:01:30] Speaker 3: I hope to have a career in that area. Yeah,
[1:01:34] Speaker 3: I also want to. I almost feel this obligation to
[1:01:39] Speaker 3: advocate for people that have been through similar experiences that
[1:01:45] Speaker 3: I went through. I want to be able to help
[1:01:49] Speaker 3: them through the process of healings from that. And I
[1:01:53] Speaker 3: feel like one of the reasons why I'm so driven
[1:01:57] Speaker 3: in that area is because survivor's guilt. I don't understand
[1:02:02] Speaker 3: how I was able to wake up and pull out
[1:02:06] Speaker 3: of it, whereas so many are still stuck, and I
[1:02:10] Speaker 3: feel this obligation, this drive to help them.
[1:02:15] Speaker 5: I mean, it's admirable and it also makes sense it. Yeah,
[1:02:20] Speaker 5: you went through so much, and why would we ever
[1:02:23] Speaker 5: want anyone else to go through that, you know without.
[1:02:25] Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, I don't. I would rather like put my
[1:02:29] Speaker 3: pain and comfort aside so that they wouldn't have to
[1:02:33] Speaker 3: go through what I went through waking up in prison.
[1:02:37] Speaker 3: I mean, it was the best and worst thing that
[1:02:40] Speaker 3: happened to me, but it was something that I did
[1:02:44] Speaker 3: have to heal from, right, Yeah, there were funny things
[1:02:47] Speaker 3: that happened in there, though I.
[1:02:48] Speaker 5: Have to say, I wish we had nine more hours.
[1:02:55] Speaker 5: You'll have to tell us when you come back, we'll
[1:02:58] Speaker 5: grill you.
[1:02:59] Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a whole there's so much. There's so much
[1:03:02] Speaker 3: to talk about, even and I think it would be
[1:03:05] Speaker 3: so good to even have like mckel on the show too,
[1:03:08] Speaker 3: because even our our friendship and the ups and downs
[1:03:14] Speaker 3: and the things that it went through, it's a whole
[1:03:17] Speaker 3: nother story in and of itself.
[1:03:19] Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, and the video you two posted together.
[1:03:21] Speaker 5: You guys are so cute.
[1:03:23] Speaker 1: I think I have a song collaboration and mind between
[1:03:27] Speaker 1: the two of you, but I want to be a
[1:03:28] Speaker 1: part of it too, So Abram for me, go coach,
[1:03:31] Speaker 1: start a band. It's it's just a song. It's just
[1:03:35] Speaker 1: a song. And I can't wait to see what the
[1:03:38] Speaker 1: future holds for you. And I am just so excited
[1:03:41] Speaker 1: for you and and thank you, thank you for joining.
[1:03:45] Speaker 3: Thank you so much, thank you.
[1:03:48] Speaker 5: And that's all we have with Gnomes, and I am
[1:03:51] Speaker 5: just so grateful that she came on and talked to us,
[1:03:54] Speaker 5: and so proud of her.
[1:03:56] Speaker 1: I'm so proud. It's unbelievable. It's inspiring, and it is
[1:04:01] Speaker 1: a conversation I will never forget.
[1:04:03] Speaker 5: I know, and hopefully we will see her in person soon.
[1:04:08] Speaker 5: I'm not going to ask you any of the questions
[1:04:10] Speaker 5: because we asked you last week. But for folks who
[1:04:12] Speaker 5: are new listeners, I do typically ask Megan if she
[1:04:15] Speaker 5: would join the cult. In this case, we're gonna just
[1:04:18] Speaker 5: not do that question.
[1:04:19] Speaker 1: We're just gonna not do it.
[1:04:21] Speaker 5: But go follow Nomes wherever she exists online. And thank
[1:04:26] Speaker 5: you for listening. Yeah, give some love to nomes, Thank
[1:04:29] Speaker 5: you for listening. Give some love to us right us
[1:04:32] Speaker 5: fagstars if you want to, and always remember to follow
[1:04:36] Speaker 5: your gut, watch out for rad flags.
[1:04:39] Speaker 1: And never ever trust me why.
[1:04:46] Speaker 5: This has been an exactly right production Hosted by me
[1:04:49] Speaker 5: Lola Blanc.
[1:04:50] Speaker 1: And Me Megan Elizabeth. Our senior producer is Gee Holee.
[1:04:53] Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by John Bradley. Our associate producer
[1:04:57] Speaker 1: is Christina Chamberlain and our guest booker is Patrick. Our
[1:05:00] Speaker 1: theme song was composed by Holly Ambert Church Trust Me
[1:05:03] Speaker 1: as executive produced by Karen Kilgareth Georgia Hartstark and Daniel Kramer.
[1:05:08] Speaker 5: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me podcast
[1:05:11] Speaker 5: or on TikTok at trust Me Cult podcast.
[1:05:13] Speaker 1: Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, our manipulation,
[1:05:16] Speaker 1: Shoot us an email at trustmepod at gmail dot com.
[1:05:20] Speaker 5: Listen to trust Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
[1:05:23] Speaker 5: or wherever you get your podcasts

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.