# Frosty the Ice Man

An episode of [Paper Ghosts: The Texas Teen Murders](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1526682330), 10 Dec 2025, 46 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/fb8d36cf-b165-4399-b277-ae2701747cf3/35164ebe-bea5-47a9-a79c-b3a60159b197/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=664846e2-642c-49b7-82d8-ae2701747d14

Small-town rumor and speculation seem to dominate discourse in Weatherford. Phelps has to ask: is Wendy Robinson’s murder connected to Vincent and Shelly’s? When Wendy’s case is finally solved, serial killers are in the mix, Phelps realizes the cases need to head into a new direction if answers are the goal. Until a bombshell out of nowhere is dropped into his lap. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Please check out my weekly podcast, Crossing the Line with
[0:03] Speaker 1: m William Phelps, where I delve into a new missing
[0:06] Speaker 1: person and cold case murder each week. Wherever you get
[0:10] Speaker 1: your favorite shows. He called Texas a place of unpeopled horizons,
[0:21] Speaker 1: a land of American bleakness, brazenly adding that culturally, socially,
[0:28] Speaker 1: and intellectually, Texas is empty. He also won an Oscar
[0:33] Speaker 1: for his script Broke Back Mountain and is considered the
[0:37] Speaker 1: most well known best selling author to come out of
[0:40] Speaker 1: the lone star state. The late great Pulitzer Prize winning
[0:45] Speaker 1: novelist Larry mcmurtury, who gave us Lonesome Dove, The Last
[0:50] Speaker 1: Picture Show, and hud to name only a few of
[0:53] Speaker 1: his thirty plus best selling books. Mcmurtury had a love
[0:58] Speaker 1: hate relationship with it home state, and often focused on
[1:02] Speaker 1: that bleakness, depicting his characters as corrupt, broken, and easily
[1:07] Speaker 1: swayed by the devil's offerings. As I traveled throughout Parker County,
[1:12] Speaker 1: developing sources, building trusting relationships, I began to understand mcmurcury's passive, aggressive,
[1:21] Speaker 1: brashness for the place he called home. Many of those good, honest,
[1:26] Speaker 1: caring people I met, and even those I had reported on,
[1:30] Speaker 1: felt as if they'd walked straight off the pages of
[1:34] Speaker 1: a mcmurchury novel. If I was to find any answers
[1:38] Speaker 1: in these cases, I would need to appreciate that the
[1:41] Speaker 1: testimony from those I spoke to and even those I hadn't,
[1:46] Speaker 1: was inherently their own, and that a deeper truth can
[1:50] Speaker 1: often emerge from what is a fractured, scorned, and broken
[1:54] Speaker 1: space inside of people. And truth, as I have said before,
[2:00] Speaker 1: is akin to a mountain standing tall all on its own,
[2:04] Speaker 1: unmovable and even unshakable. Yet the issue I kept running
[2:09] Speaker 1: into was getting to the summit of the mountain without falling.
[2:14] Speaker 2: I can't even tell you. She loved that horse a
[2:16] Speaker 2: lot more she loved me. She spent more time with
[2:19] Speaker 2: the answer than you know. When she was home, she
[2:22] Speaker 2: was out there missing with answer. He was green broke,
[2:27] Speaker 2: So green broke means that you're kind of broke. Yeah,
[2:32] Speaker 2: And so when she would ride, I would have to
[2:36] Speaker 2: ride first to get him warmed up and such, and so,
[2:43] Speaker 2: oh gosh, she love it.
[2:44] Speaker 1: Hearse what could be more innocent or western? Exemplifying that
[2:51] Speaker 1: nostalgic image of Texas Larry mcmurcury paint so vividly than
[2:57] Speaker 1: a teenage girl on her horse under a Texas sky
[3:02] Speaker 1: on a summer day.
[3:03] Speaker 2: A big memory I have of her is one day
[3:07] Speaker 2: she was walking the fence line, you know, with Dancer,
[3:11] Speaker 2: and I said, I hollered at him. I said, Shelley,
[3:15] Speaker 2: I said, pull him up. I said, he's going to sleep.
[3:19] Speaker 2: I said, I'm telling you he's asleep. And she looks
[3:23] Speaker 2: at me. She goes, shh, you know, like, don't wake
[3:26] Speaker 2: him up. But you know, he could have woke up,
[3:30] Speaker 2: and he could have just threw her right off. But
[3:35] Speaker 2: everything was okay. But I just had that That's just
[3:38] Speaker 2: embedding the way she looked and told me.
[3:41] Speaker 1: To sh as. Janetta says, Ronnie Colliflower bought Dancer, the
[3:48] Speaker 1: horse Shelley named and loved so much. And so when
[3:53] Speaker 1: I hear an anecdote such as the one Janetta just
[3:56] Speaker 1: shared along with how Ronnie liked to sit and watch
[4:00] Speaker 1: his stepdaughter ride even though the guy was ducking me
[4:03] Speaker 1: and had acted a bit sketchy throughout the years. According
[4:07] Speaker 1: to some I spoke to, there is no way I
[4:10] Speaker 1: can believe Ronnie could have had anything whatsoever to do
[4:15] Speaker 1: with killing Shelley or her boyfriend. That accusation has no
[4:20] Speaker 1: place on the mountain next to me, but rather fits
[4:23] Speaker 1: conveniently into a fictionalized version of this case some have created.
[4:30] Speaker 1: Ronnie Colliflower raised that girl as if she was his own,
[4:34] Speaker 1: and her death had broken the man to the point
[4:37] Speaker 1: where for decades he refused to even talk about it.
[4:43] Speaker 1: Forgive me for this, but so Ronnie was with you
[4:47] Speaker 1: that weekend you were gone. Yes, what if some people
[4:50] Speaker 1: say Ronnie had something to do with it? What would
[4:53] Speaker 1: you say? Not a chance that he got somebody to
[4:55] Speaker 1: do it or anything like that.
[4:57] Speaker 2: No, I believe that in my heart with the a
[5:01] Speaker 2: Please ask me that I believe that.
[5:03] Speaker 3: Bha.
[5:03] Speaker 2: That's the first thing, Nancy.
[5:06] Speaker 1: When a murder wraps a family in a cocoon of
[5:09] Speaker 1: emotional hell, those who have not lived through the experience
[5:14] Speaker 1: could never understand the totality of that loss. They say
[5:19] Speaker 1: the day a child dies crushes a parent's soul, but
[5:24] Speaker 1: that's not true. It's every day after their child is
[5:29] Speaker 1: still gone that hurts the most. There's also a physical
[5:34] Speaker 1: toll the weight of a child's murder places on the
[5:38] Speaker 1: backs of parents. As you have heard throughout genetic holieflower.
[5:43] Speaker 1: Smith suffers still to this day because of a loss
[5:47] Speaker 1: shattering every aspect of her life. She's broken like a
[5:52] Speaker 1: piece of glass. In a similar fashion, Vincent Tjerina Senior
[5:58] Speaker 1: worked tirelessly every day of his life searching for the
[6:02] Speaker 1: answers to his son's murder. He did not stop. Some
[6:07] Speaker 1: say he was obsessed. How could a parent in his
[6:11] Speaker 1: position not be? The guy badgered the Weatherford Police and
[6:17] Speaker 1: pushed them to not give up, even as the years
[6:21] Speaker 1: passed and the case felt as though it would never
[6:25] Speaker 1: be solved. Here's Raymond t Jerina once again, Vincent's brother,
[6:30] Speaker 1: whom you have heard in previous episodes. This must have
[6:35] Speaker 1: destroyed your brother. Tell me about that if you can.
[6:38] Speaker 4: Well, he wanted so bad for you know, either him
[6:43] Speaker 4: to find the killers or the police to find their
[6:45] Speaker 4: killers and prosecute him whatever he's been done. And here's
[6:50] Speaker 4: forty two years later and nothing still. But I'm gonna
[6:55] Speaker 4: say that that's what it was to me, That's what
[6:58] Speaker 4: it was, sure sim And they all covered it up.
[7:01] Speaker 1: He was never the same after this happened. Iakin imagine.
[7:06] Speaker 2: It took his.
[7:07] Speaker 4: Life away him, that it was on his sign, and
[7:10] Speaker 4: it was sixteen years old, I mean got him mind
[7:13] Speaker 4: it in the time of his time.
[7:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, horrible.
[7:18] Speaker 4: Yes, he told him all to hell and it was
[7:20] Speaker 4: not the same. And he talked to me a lot,
[7:23] Speaker 4: you know, he would just try to get some of
[7:25] Speaker 4: the steam out of him and stuff like that. And
[7:27] Speaker 4: he talked to me a lot every time I saw him,
[7:29] Speaker 4: and stuff. And he came up and saw me, you know,
[7:32] Speaker 4: came to see me and stuff like that, had and
[7:34] Speaker 4: we talked and stuff like that. I kept telling him,
[7:37] Speaker 4: giving him hope that they will find him, you know,
[7:40] Speaker 4: I will find him.
[7:42] Speaker 1: The longing and the need for answers eats away at
[7:45] Speaker 1: apparent like rust on an old farming tractor out in
[7:49] Speaker 1: a pasture. I will never stop saying it. The ripple
[7:53] Speaker 1: effect of murder reverberates like a perpetual echo, generation after generation. So, Vincent,
[8:03] Speaker 1: your brother h two Texas rangers started to talk to him.
[8:07] Speaker 1: Is that true?
[8:08] Speaker 4: Yes?
[8:09] Speaker 1: Yes, tell me about that.
[8:11] Speaker 4: Nothing was done, and my son hired a private investigator
[8:14] Speaker 4: and the police one in cooperating it all with him
[8:16] Speaker 4: and stuff like that. And so they summoned the type
[8:20] Speaker 4: of friends to come in and investigate it. Because they
[8:23] Speaker 4: kept saying that it was out an inside out, okay,
[8:27] Speaker 4: what you call it? Police, and they were covering up.
[8:30] Speaker 4: But the rangers came and they could never find nothing.
[8:34] Speaker 4: You know, the police, I'm sure didn't cooperate with it.
[8:37] Speaker 4: Damn with him, that's what I heard. Police wouldn't do nothing.
[8:41] Speaker 4: I mean, we all went and talked to him. You know,
[8:44] Speaker 4: they were not hearing any kind of information all this stuff.
[8:47] Speaker 4: One officer came in and called us in, called me
[8:50] Speaker 4: and called my brother in law, which was married to
[8:53] Speaker 4: my sister, and we went and talked to him, and
[8:55] Speaker 4: they didn't have it. My stink to tailed us that
[8:58] Speaker 4: they just had been who's student, some guy that had
[9:01] Speaker 4: left town. I don't know whether he was around the
[9:04] Speaker 4: place anything or anything like that or what, but he
[9:07] Speaker 4: left town right after that night. I believe he left
[9:11] Speaker 4: for the Northern States and Ohio somewhere up there in
[9:15] Speaker 4: that northern part. And they were chasing him for two
[9:18] Speaker 4: weeks and then he finally came in and on his
[9:22] Speaker 4: own and took up potty tests and ran it and
[9:26] Speaker 4: he was questioned a lot and everything, and it's determined
[9:29] Speaker 4: he wasn't in it, so let him go. And they
[9:34] Speaker 4: had no leeds of any kind in anything.
[9:36] Speaker 1: That's what they told us. Several sources told me the
[9:40] Speaker 1: person Raymond mentioned, a schoolmate of Vincent and Shelley's, was
[9:44] Speaker 1: up on Piss Hill that night. It was ten thirty
[9:47] Speaker 1: pm when he and a family member with him heard
[9:51] Speaker 1: three gunshots and right afterward saw a young man one
[9:56] Speaker 1: of the names I have censored throughout the podcast standing
[10:01] Speaker 1: near Vincent's car. The schoolmate left town right after the
[10:05] Speaker 1: murders because I was told his life had been threatened.
[10:10] Speaker 1: He was eventually located out of state by investigators and
[10:14] Speaker 1: agreed to take a polygraph, which law enforcement says he passed.
[10:21] Speaker 1: I'm so sorry this happened to your family. Ramon, Yes, yes,
[10:25] Speaker 1: I am my brother.
[10:27] Speaker 4: He never was the same. He started deteriorating and he
[10:32] Speaker 4: had been discharged from medical discharge from Nolan Me. So
[10:36] Speaker 4: he just started deturating, deteriorating.
[10:39] Speaker 1: He was young. Yeah, I believe. Here's another Tajerina family
[10:46] Speaker 1: member you heard from earlier in the podcast, and as
[10:50] Speaker 1: you'll hear utterly implicit in her voice, there is that
[10:55] Speaker 1: generational ripple effect. I mentioned.
[11:01] Speaker 5: What they did to not just our family, that many
[11:04] Speaker 5: other families, you know, like Wendy's family, and there were
[11:09] Speaker 5: a couple of you know, young African American boys that
[11:13] Speaker 5: were killed and murdered for no reason. There were just
[11:15] Speaker 5: so many, so many things, and so many that were
[11:18] Speaker 5: not even written about that we know about, that we're.
[11:21] Speaker 6: Missing, you know.
[11:23] Speaker 5: So I just hope that they can stop the chain
[11:26] Speaker 5: of murdering then it goes on over there. It's unbelievable
[11:29] Speaker 5: today in time that they're still allowed to do all this.
[11:34] Speaker 2: It's unbelievable to me.
[11:38] Speaker 1: Vincent Senior kept the secret from most everyone in the family,
[11:42] Speaker 1: including Vincent Junior, throughout all of this. He was very ill.
[11:49] Speaker 1: Then on February twenty third, nineteen eighty six, not quite
[11:54] Speaker 1: three years since his son's murder, at just thirty eight
[11:58] Speaker 1: years old, Vince died from complications of a lung issue
[12:03] Speaker 1: he'd struggled with for years, never knowing what happened or
[12:08] Speaker 1: who was responsible for the murder of his son.
[12:14] Speaker 5: Because he'd been working in the commercial painting industry back then.
[12:17] Speaker 5: Of course, the lead based paint ended up getting getting
[12:20] Speaker 5: him health wise, but he really warned himself down trying.
[12:25] Speaker 1: You know, so hard to get information. He would not
[12:28] Speaker 1: let up.
[12:29] Speaker 5: He was constantly at the police station. He was constantly
[12:33] Speaker 5: talking to newspapers, anybody that would listen to him, trying
[12:36] Speaker 5: to get answers. Even on this you know, deathbed. He
[12:40] Speaker 5: was just like, you know, I'm gonna be with my
[12:44] Speaker 5: son now, and so was everything to him because he's
[12:50] Speaker 5: a great kid.
[12:58] Speaker 1: Previously on page for Ghosts.
[13:01] Speaker 7: There's a man that worked on that ranch that found her,
[13:04] Speaker 7: Bobby laying there. He had gone to enter the ranch
[13:09] Speaker 7: and that's when he discovered her.
[13:11] Speaker 3: It appeared that she had been sexual assaulted. She had
[13:15] Speaker 3: been bound by the hands and feet. She had like
[13:18] Speaker 3: her bathing suit top on and some shorts on, and
[13:21] Speaker 3: then she had been bludgeoned in the head. And they
[13:24] Speaker 3: believe it may have been a rock.
[13:26] Speaker 8: Yeah, you're you're spot on.
[13:28] Speaker 1: We opened up at some point, you know, a hot line.
[13:31] Speaker 1: I say a hot line. It was just a direct.
[13:33] Speaker 1: It was my extension.
[13:34] Speaker 4: You know.
[13:34] Speaker 1: People were calling me left and right.
[13:36] Speaker 8: A lot of it was the stuff I had already
[13:38] Speaker 8: heard before.
[13:38] Speaker 1: But people wanted to, you know, they wanted to do
[13:40] Speaker 1: their part. My name is em William Phelps. I'm an
[13:45] Speaker 1: investigative journalist and the New York Times bestselling author of
[13:50] Speaker 1: dozens of true crime books. This is season five of
[13:55] Speaker 1: pay Per Ghosts, The Texas Team Murders. Cruising through Parker
[14:22] Speaker 1: County on a clear day, it feels as though you
[14:24] Speaker 1: can drive directly into the sky. The flat land and
[14:29] Speaker 1: horizon appear endless. At dusk with the sun backlighting the heavens.
[14:35] Speaker 1: Certain hues of purple, pink, orange, and yellow will make
[14:39] Speaker 1: a believer out of even the most ardent skeptic. This
[14:44] Speaker 1: tranquil friendly country life residents were used to living had
[14:49] Speaker 1: been darkened by not one or two murders, but a
[14:52] Speaker 1: rash of homicides. As the eighties ended, in the nineties
[14:57] Speaker 1: crept up with Wendy Robinson's section ruol assault and Vicious Murder.
[15:02] Speaker 1: Just like Vincent and Shelley's still unresolved, the community had
[15:08] Speaker 1: been scarred forever by the evil nature of innocent kids
[15:12] Speaker 1: just starting out in life, stricken down in the most
[15:16] Speaker 1: horrific fashion, and in Wendy Robinson's case, particularly the idea
[15:22] Speaker 1: that someone law enforcement had bought into Ricky Lee Green's
[15:27] Speaker 1: masquerade admission heightened the lack of respect already felt for
[15:32] Speaker 1: law enforcement, and what's even worse, allowed her rapist and
[15:37] Speaker 1: killer to walk the streets of Freeman with the possibility
[15:43] Speaker 1: of doing it again.
[15:45] Speaker 7: On July the ninth of eighty seven, there was a
[15:48] Speaker 7: robbery at the Petro gas station in Wetherford and the
[15:52] Speaker 7: person who was assaulted was a trucker. He gave them
[15:56] Speaker 7: a vague description on both people and they did a
[16:00] Speaker 7: sketch of them. So then on November the sixteenth, the
[16:06] Speaker 7: police talked to two women that owned a restaurant at
[16:10] Speaker 7: Lake Weatherford and asked them if they recognized either of
[16:14] Speaker 7: these two people.
[16:16] Speaker 1: To be clear, I want to point out that in
[16:19] Speaker 1: the previous episode we focused on Ricky Lee Green, the
[16:24] Speaker 1: man Patricia Springer, the author investigating Wendy's case, just described,
[16:30] Speaker 1: is a different guy, Ricky Lee Adkins. Adkins is a
[16:36] Speaker 1: bony looking dude with a scruffy goateee of peach fuzz,
[16:40] Speaker 1: close set, dark beady eyes, long hippie like knotted black hair.
[16:47] Speaker 1: He was a known sex offender rotten to the core,
[16:51] Speaker 1: not to mention, as they like to say in Texas
[16:55] Speaker 1: Dark as coffin air, the lead they developed about Adkins
[17:00] Speaker 1: doesn't come until twenty sixteen, and not until as Patricia
[17:06] Speaker 1: touched on in the previous episode, Adkins's daughter called the
[17:11] Speaker 1: Weatherford police and reported he had confessed Wendy's murder to her.
[17:17] Speaker 1: From there, they backtracked and began looking into Adkins' life,
[17:21] Speaker 1: And wouldn't you know, investigators had had their eye on
[17:25] Speaker 1: Adkins as far back as nineteen eighty seven. In the
[17:30] Speaker 1: months just after Wendy's murder.
[17:35] Speaker 7: They found out that Atkins was in Arizona in custody
[17:40] Speaker 7: on a burglary or robbery case there, so they extradited
[17:44] Speaker 7: him back to Weatherford and he came back to Texas
[17:47] Speaker 7: on November the twenty eighth of eighty seven. Then they
[17:51] Speaker 7: started talking to him, but they only talked to him
[17:54] Speaker 7: about From my notes that I've gathered, they only talked
[17:57] Speaker 7: to him about the robbery at Petro. He has to
[18:00] Speaker 7: see if they could get in to confess that, then
[18:02] Speaker 7: they could get him on the murder. He denied that entirely.
[18:06] Speaker 7: They talked to him twice and each time he denied it.
[18:11] Speaker 7: The third time they tried to talk to him, he
[18:13] Speaker 7: refused to speak to them any longer, and they didn't
[18:16] Speaker 7: speak to him after that.
[18:17] Speaker 1: I was interested in Wendy Robinson's vehicle, which seemed to
[18:22] Speaker 1: share a few consistencies with how the Monte Carlo Vincent
[18:26] Speaker 1: drove was found, including the fact that it was the
[18:30] Speaker 1: same exact car.
[18:32] Speaker 7: When they went to the wall to see what was
[18:36] Speaker 7: left there, her car was there. It was unlocked, but
[18:40] Speaker 7: her purse and her radio and her keys were gone,
[18:44] Speaker 7: so they thought she had just gone off with someone.
[18:48] Speaker 7: She knew at that point that she had just taken
[18:52] Speaker 7: off and decided to go get a coke or something.
[18:54] Speaker 1: Remember, they had never found the keys to Vincent's car.
[19:01] Speaker 1: Ellwood Hohertz is on record saying he thought that two
[19:05] Speaker 1: cases were linked, Wendy Robinson and Colliflower Travino. Why would
[19:10] Speaker 1: he say something like that, you think.
[19:12] Speaker 7: Oh, I think probably because both cases about young people.
[19:15] Speaker 7: Both cases were murdered. Although the similarities are not alike.
[19:21] Speaker 7: I mean, they're totally different, different circumstances.
[19:25] Speaker 1: Entirely based on all the available evidence, In addition to
[19:29] Speaker 1: what Patricia tells me next, I don't think we can
[19:32] Speaker 1: link Wendy's case to Shelley and Vincent's murders. Adkins was
[19:38] Speaker 1: indicted in twenty sixteen for the capital felony murder of
[19:43] Speaker 1: Wendy Robinson. In twenty eighteen, he was convicted and sentenced
[19:49] Speaker 1: for thirty five years in prison. But that was far
[19:52] Speaker 1: from the end of Wendy's case, because Adkins then implicates
[19:56] Speaker 1: to other men in Wendy's rape and murder.
[20:02] Speaker 7: He told me, as I've interviewed him to that Michael
[20:07] Speaker 7: Deadman and Grady Bruce Deadman both raped Wendy and of
[20:13] Speaker 7: course he didn't do any of that, you see, Yeah,
[20:16] Speaker 7: we can believe that, and that then Grady said we
[20:22] Speaker 7: can't leave her alive, and that Grady is the one
[20:25] Speaker 7: that actually crushed her skull with the rock.
[20:28] Speaker 1: They all put it on the other guy.
[20:30] Speaker 6: They all put it on the other guy.
[20:31] Speaker 7: Now, unfortunately Atkins is the only one who has been
[20:36] Speaker 7: convicted of that.
[20:37] Speaker 1: The other two are still free.
[20:40] Speaker 7: Yes, it was determined that they didn't have any evidence
[20:43] Speaker 7: against the other two, only Ricky Atkins' word for it,
[20:48] Speaker 7: and they didn't think that was good enough to take
[20:51] Speaker 7: to a jury. That you know, any good defense attorney
[20:54] Speaker 7: would be able to turn that around.
[20:56] Speaker 1: What do you think of that?
[20:57] Speaker 6: Well, I was not happy about that.
[20:59] Speaker 7: I have a good friend who was a prosecutor in
[21:02] Speaker 7: Terrant County, and I called him and asked him what
[21:06] Speaker 7: the procedure would be to get a special prosecutor to
[21:10] Speaker 7: take on the case because I couldn't get the prosecutor
[21:13] Speaker 7: here to even return my calls. He said, it's almost impossible,
[21:18] Speaker 7: and not with this case, you know. He said that
[21:21] Speaker 7: it just wouldn't fly. And so nothing was ever done
[21:24] Speaker 7: with the other two. I did speak with Grady Deadman.
[21:28] Speaker 7: He's scary out of all of them, he was the
[21:31] Speaker 7: biggest and mean, and Ricky said that a lot. Ricky
[21:36] Speaker 7: Adkins told me over and over again how mean Grady
[21:40] Speaker 7: dead Man was and he was afraid of him. Now, Michael,
[21:44] Speaker 7: who is Grady's brother, the last the police knew of him.
[21:48] Speaker 7: He was homeless and living on the streets in Houston,
[21:52] Speaker 7: now Grady's last I talked to him. He was in
[21:55] Speaker 7: Fort Worth when I spoke with him, he was at
[21:58] Speaker 7: a halfway house.
[21:59] Speaker 6: He had just got out and out of jail. He
[22:01] Speaker 6: was going into a VA facility to live.
[22:05] Speaker 1: What do you think? Do you think all three of
[22:07] Speaker 1: them did it?
[22:07] Speaker 6: Absolutely?
[22:08] Speaker 1: You believe Ricky Atkinson.
[22:10] Speaker 7: I think he participated. I don't know whether he held
[22:13] Speaker 7: her down. I don't know what he did, but yes,
[22:17] Speaker 7: I think he participated.
[22:18] Speaker 1: So these three are just kind of bumming around doing drugs, drinking.
[22:22] Speaker 1: They come upon her and they say let's have a party.
[22:24] Speaker 7: Yes, Now, I think Ricky Atkins was smart enough not
[22:28] Speaker 7: to want to pile any more charges on him, because
[22:31] Speaker 7: his claim was that she got in the truck with
[22:34] Speaker 7: them of her own accord, and that they took her
[22:37] Speaker 7: to Fort Worth to get beer.
[22:39] Speaker 6: Because Parker County at that time was a dry county.
[22:42] Speaker 6: I know Wendy. I felt like I knew her pretty well,
[22:44] Speaker 6: certainly knew her parents well.
[22:46] Speaker 7: I didn't believe that for one moment, but I think
[22:49] Speaker 7: that he wanted to get out of a kidnapping, rap,
[22:51] Speaker 7: capital murder.
[22:52] Speaker 1: At that point, you're right in Texas, you're going to die.
[22:55] Speaker 3: Yes.
[22:56] Speaker 1: Do you think they have the right guy for Wendy's murder?
[23:00] Speaker 7: I think yeah, eventually they did. They got one of
[23:03] Speaker 7: the three. There are two out there.
[23:05] Speaker 1: You definitely think those three did it.
[23:06] Speaker 6: Oh?
[23:07] Speaker 7: Yes, Like I said, I've spoken to Atkins. I have
[23:10] Speaker 7: a stack of letters from him describing everything to me. Yeah,
[23:14] Speaker 7: Grady was gruff enough and scary enough for.
[23:19] Speaker 6: Me to believe that he would kill someone.
[23:20] Speaker 1: So Ricky described murdering her and everything.
[23:24] Speaker 6: Yes, that Grady is the one that did that, and
[23:26] Speaker 6: how it was done, and.
[23:28] Speaker 1: He talked about binding her and everything.
[23:32] Speaker 7: He told me that the bindings came from the leather shoelaces,
[23:36] Speaker 7: bootlaces out of Michael Deadman's boots, and that that's what
[23:42] Speaker 7: they used for the ligatures.
[23:43] Speaker 1: Did that check out with the crime scene reports of leather?
[23:47] Speaker 6: Yes, Yes, they were leather ligatures.
[23:50] Speaker 1: So that checked out.
[23:51] Speaker 6: Yes, that checked out.
[23:52] Speaker 1: So he couldn't have known that.
[23:53] Speaker 4: No.
[23:58] Speaker 1: I asked Patricia about the names I have been censoring
[24:02] Speaker 1: throughout the podcast. She had reviewed every piece of paper
[24:06] Speaker 1: in Wendy's case and interviewed scores of sources over a
[24:11] Speaker 1: forty year period. Within all of that time, I wondered
[24:16] Speaker 1: had she ever come across the names as being connected
[24:21] Speaker 1: to Wendy's case, Vincent and Shelley's case, or any other murders.
[24:27] Speaker 7: It was never mentioned in any of the case files
[24:30] Speaker 7: or at anybody that I interviewed. People may have thought
[24:33] Speaker 7: that it could have been the same person, but because
[24:37] Speaker 7: they were so different, I also think that they realized
[24:40] Speaker 7: that it probably wasn't. The theory was that it was
[24:45] Speaker 7: somebody within the Sheriff's department that had done this, or
[24:50] Speaker 7: it had been someone related to someone in the Sheriff's
[24:53] Speaker 7: department that had done this because the crime scene was
[24:57] Speaker 7: evidently very contaminat by the authorities.
[25:09] Speaker 1: Patricia brings up another name I have heard quite a
[25:12] Speaker 1: bit as someone being connected to Shelley and Vincent's murders,
[25:17] Speaker 1: and how this person, right after the murders disappeared from
[25:21] Speaker 1: public view and became a recluse, which I touched on
[25:26] Speaker 1: in a previous episode.
[25:30] Speaker 7: It's my understanding, and never left his house after that,
[25:35] Speaker 7: and so that even brought on more speculation that.
[25:38] Speaker 6: He was involved in some way.
[25:44] Speaker 1: This type of cold case can become dizzy with so
[25:48] Speaker 1: many rumors, so many names, so much speculation, if you
[25:53] Speaker 1: allow it to. In my experience, keeping it simple is
[25:57] Speaker 1: the most productive way to go about finding new information
[26:01] Speaker 1: in getting closer to the truth. As of the production
[26:06] Speaker 1: of this episode, law enforcement has failed to produce anyone
[26:11] Speaker 1: willing enough to step into a grand jury and point
[26:14] Speaker 1: a finger at those names I have censored. That doesn't
[26:19] Speaker 1: mean they were not involved. It tells me, within the
[26:22] Speaker 1: scope of a cold case investigation, that there isn't enough
[26:27] Speaker 1: hard evidence tying these men to the murders, or for
[26:31] Speaker 1: whatever political reasons, law enforcement flat out just refuses to
[26:37] Speaker 1: go after them. Still, every time it felt as if
[26:42] Speaker 1: I could exclude these guys, I landed on a source
[26:46] Speaker 1: who changed my mind, and one woman, someone who knew
[26:51] Speaker 1: most everyone involved, including the names I have censored, steps
[26:56] Speaker 1: up and drops a bombshell.
[27:31] Speaker 9: I was born and raised in Weatherford all my life.
[27:34] Speaker 9: Weatherford's always been a safe town, and when the murders happened,
[27:41] Speaker 9: it was really it really put everybody on edge because
[27:45] Speaker 9: nothing like that had ever happened in Weatherford before. It
[27:48] Speaker 9: was kind of a at the time, a once in
[27:50] Speaker 9: a lifetime thing that, you know, none of us said
[27:53] Speaker 9: it had ever experienced in our little town. Of course,
[27:56] Speaker 9: Wetherford's a lot bigger now, but at the time it
[27:59] Speaker 9: was small.
[28:01] Speaker 1: My source was in her late twenties back in nineteen
[28:04] Speaker 1: eighty three. She had heard all the rumors, of course,
[28:07] Speaker 1: during those days after the murders, the names everyone has
[28:11] Speaker 1: been connecting to the case, but she didn't really put
[28:15] Speaker 1: much steak in town gossip, most of which had been
[28:19] Speaker 1: generated by a bunch of kids at the time. After all,
[28:24] Speaker 1: people could say whatever they wanted, blame whomever they chose.
[28:30] Speaker 1: Hearsay is cheap, and it gets you nowhere. But for
[28:35] Speaker 1: this source, however, all of that changed one day when
[28:39] Speaker 1: she heard it straight from the Horse's mouth.
[28:45] Speaker 9: I stopped at a convenience store and I saw this
[28:48] Speaker 9: friend of mine that I hadn't seen from high school,
[28:51] Speaker 9: and we were just trying to catch up, and she
[28:54] Speaker 9: said she was going to a party that night and
[28:56] Speaker 9: asked me if I wanted to go with her, and
[28:57] Speaker 9: I said, sure, no problem. So she picked me up
[29:01] Speaker 9: and we started driving down to the river area, the
[29:06] Speaker 9: Horseshoe Bend area, and we got to this house, and
[29:09] Speaker 9: I mean there were people everywhere inside outside, and we
[29:15] Speaker 9: went in.
[29:16] Speaker 10: She wanted to get some weed.
[29:18] Speaker 1: Horseshoe Bend is about a twenty minute ride south of Weatherford, and.
[29:27] Speaker 9: So we went in the house and she was looking
[29:29] Speaker 9: for him, and I was just kind of sitting there,
[29:32] Speaker 9: you know, watching everything. I'm a people watcher, so just
[29:35] Speaker 9: watching everything that's going on, and.
[29:41] Speaker 10: That's when I saw. I didn't know who he was
[29:46] Speaker 10: when I saw.
[29:46] Speaker 4: Him, but it was.
[29:49] Speaker 1: There was another guy with him. That second name I
[29:53] Speaker 1: have been censoring. The same guy others have reported began
[29:57] Speaker 1: living in seclusion right after the murders. Yet the guy
[30:02] Speaker 1: my source didn't really know all that well, the one
[30:06] Speaker 1: connected to someone in law enforcement. During that party she
[30:10] Speaker 1: was at.
[30:11] Speaker 9: He started mouthing off the thing that caught my attention
[30:15] Speaker 9: because I wasn't really paying any attention to him, but
[30:19] Speaker 9: then all of a sudden, I heard him say we
[30:21] Speaker 9: killed those kids, and that immediately got my attention and
[30:34] Speaker 9: it scared me, and I started looking for my girlfriend
[30:39] Speaker 9: and I said, did you just hear what was going
[30:42] Speaker 9: on and what he said?
[30:43] Speaker 10: And she said I heard him.
[30:45] Speaker 9: I said, I want to get out of here. I
[30:46] Speaker 9: don't want any part of this, So we got in
[30:49] Speaker 9: the car and left. It wasn't long after that a.
[30:54] Speaker 10: Girlfriend and I were working at Dairy Queen there in
[30:57] Speaker 10: Weatherford on South.
[30:58] Speaker 9: Maine, and it was it happened to be one of
[31:00] Speaker 9: those nights we were having a banana split cell and
[31:05] Speaker 9: we sold so many banana.
[31:07] Speaker 10: Split cells that night. We were hot and sticky.
[31:09] Speaker 9: It was so we decided we wanted to go. I
[31:13] Speaker 9: guess it was later in the summer because we went
[31:15] Speaker 9: to the lake and went swimming. And followed us out
[31:18] Speaker 9: there and we were in the water swimming. It was
[31:23] Speaker 9: my girlfriend and myself and her brother, just the three
[31:27] Speaker 9: of us, nobody else, And told us to.
[31:30] Speaker 10: Get out of the water. So we got out of
[31:32] Speaker 10: the water.
[31:33] Speaker 9: You know, we didn't know what was going on, and
[31:36] Speaker 9: my friends, now her brother that was with us, asked
[31:41] Speaker 9: did He said, what's going on and took the butt
[31:44] Speaker 9: of his gun and helped my friend's brother in the stomach.
[31:48] Speaker 10: I mean, immediately a big old well come up on
[31:50] Speaker 10: my stomach. He said, y'all follow us to the sheriff's office.
[31:56] Speaker 10: So we got in our van and we drove to
[31:58] Speaker 10: the sheriff's office and all of us had I mean,
[32:02] Speaker 10: you know, that was back in you know, the eighties.
[32:05] Speaker 9: We wore bikinis when we went swimming, but he we
[32:08] Speaker 9: had towels, but he wouldn't let us cover up. He
[32:11] Speaker 9: made us take the towels off. Then he got on
[32:14] Speaker 9: the phone and called my daddy and told my daddy
[32:16] Speaker 9: that he caught me naked out at the lake with
[32:18] Speaker 9: a bunch of boys. And I mean, after that, I
[32:23] Speaker 9: was just you know, everybody in town was scared of
[32:26] Speaker 9: them because of their reputation, and I was one of them.
[32:32] Speaker 1: So there it was again the same accusation, But here
[32:36] Speaker 1: was a witness claiming she overheard the actual suspect himself
[32:42] Speaker 1: admitting to killing Shelley and Vincent while using the pronoun
[32:47] Speaker 1: we implicating someone else. This is the type of testimony
[32:53] Speaker 1: grand juries want to hear. A credible witness, uninvolved sitting
[32:59] Speaker 1: at a party overhearing someone admit to a murder, yet
[33:04] Speaker 1: nothing was ever done about it. Her story, like so
[33:08] Speaker 1: many I have heard, got sucked into the vacuum of Weatherford,
[33:12] Speaker 1: which had essentially been cleaning up this case for more
[33:15] Speaker 1: than four decades. As time passes. What are you hearing
[33:20] Speaker 1: about suspects, anything else you're hearing.
[33:23] Speaker 10: In town other than those two, I'm not hearing anything.
[33:27] Speaker 1: Was there any talk in town about it being some
[33:30] Speaker 1: sort of love triangle?
[33:31] Speaker 9: We never heard that. The Only thing we ever heard
[33:34] Speaker 9: was that it was a drug deal gone bad and
[33:36] Speaker 9: that had killed them.
[33:43] Speaker 1: In this case, perhaps more than any other I have investigated,
[33:49] Speaker 1: motive becomes the main piece of the puzzle. I am
[33:53] Speaker 1: in search of why, because if you can nail down
[33:57] Speaker 1: a motive, it will lead you to an answer. The
[34:02] Speaker 1: one promising lead in the case serial killer oddist tool.
[34:07] Speaker 1: As I mentioned in the last episode, a serial killer
[34:10] Speaker 1: who had admitted to law enforcement he committed the murders.
[34:14] Speaker 1: Was another letdown as tool was ultimately ruled out completely
[34:20] Speaker 1: by impartial evidence proving he was nowhere near Weatherford at
[34:25] Speaker 1: the time of the murders. Not to mention, he and
[34:30] Speaker 1: Henry Lee Lucas became known for false confessions, dozens and
[34:35] Speaker 1: dozens of them. So, circling back to my main point,
[34:40] Speaker 1: if this is not a serial killer case, and I
[34:44] Speaker 1: don't believe it is, there has to be a direct motive. Love, money, revenge,
[34:50] Speaker 1: one of only three basic motives for murder. All killers
[34:54] Speaker 1: are effectively driven by. To me, after being stuck in
[34:58] Speaker 1: the weeds of this case for you years, the only
[35:01] Speaker 1: logical motive feels awfully like what people have been saying.
[35:08] Speaker 9: From the time we first heard about it until you know,
[35:13] Speaker 9: all these years later, I'm still hearing the same thing.
[35:16] Speaker 9: But see, nobody ever knew any other details. People would
[35:20] Speaker 9: go up there to park all the time. Everybody was
[35:23] Speaker 9: relating all of it to drugs. I really don't know
[35:28] Speaker 9: a lot, you know, I wasn't in high school, so
[35:31] Speaker 9: I don't know a lot about what was going on there.
[35:34] Speaker 9: The main thing I know about is what I heard
[35:37] Speaker 9: him say, you know, at the party. I can't imagine
[35:40] Speaker 9: him bragging about killing kids if he didn't actually do it,
[35:45] Speaker 9: you know, And I was kind of afraid of that
[35:46] Speaker 9: family after that. Took me forever to convince my dad
[35:50] Speaker 9: that I wasn't at the lake naked with a bunch
[35:52] Speaker 9: of boys.
[35:53] Speaker 1: And you think did that because of what you heard.
[35:56] Speaker 1: Was he sending you a message?
[35:58] Speaker 10: I think he was trying to Yeah, I think he
[36:00] Speaker 10: was trying to scare me.
[36:05] Speaker 1: I asked my source if any of those names I
[36:09] Speaker 1: have censored had ever approached her again or threatened her.
[36:14] Speaker 10: No, not at all.
[36:18] Speaker 1: Ever felt like you've been followed or watched or anything
[36:22] Speaker 1: like that.
[36:23] Speaker 10: No, because I moved out of weather for not long
[36:26] Speaker 10: after that.
[36:38] Speaker 1: As I dug into the meth trade aspect of the case,
[36:41] Speaker 1: seeing that everyone I spoke to mentioned drugs as a
[36:45] Speaker 1: motivating factor in some form or fashion, I developed information
[36:50] Speaker 1: which quite honestly began to paint somewhat of a clearer
[36:55] Speaker 1: picture regarding what might have been going on here. I
[36:59] Speaker 1: touched on this prely, but Ronnie Colliflower's brother Ernest Alfred
[37:03] Speaker 1: Colliflower fifty six at the time known by everyone as Frosty,
[37:09] Speaker 1: was arrested in twenty fourteen with ten others, including first
[37:14] Speaker 1: officer on the scene up at Piss Hill, Robert Hardin's
[37:18] Speaker 1: son in connection with a large meth distribution ring working
[37:23] Speaker 1: out of Parker County, an operation run from a property
[37:27] Speaker 1: just a few miles south of Piss Hill. Everyone I
[37:32] Speaker 1: spoke to called Frosty the meth cook. Every major dealer
[37:38] Speaker 1: wanted cooking for them. Frosty was the breaking bad Walter
[37:42] Speaker 1: White of his time, and I was told Parker County's
[37:47] Speaker 1: Gus Fring, the breaking bad drug kingpin, wanted Frosty to
[37:52] Speaker 1: cook for him, but Frosty rebuked his offers. So this
[37:57] Speaker 1: now gave me a direct connection between one of the victims,
[38:02] Speaker 1: Shelley's uncle, Frosty, the meth trade, and one of the
[38:06] Speaker 1: names I have been censoring, the man Frosty refused to
[38:12] Speaker 1: cook for. Within all of that, a monumental motive emerges. Okay, Frosty,
[38:19] Speaker 1: you won't cook for us. The first opportunity we get,
[38:23] Speaker 1: we will show you that you need to rethink your position. Yeah,
[38:34] Speaker 1: I have no doubt frost knows everything. That's mel Mitchell again.
[38:38] Speaker 1: She even asked Frosty's brother, Ronnie Colliflower about him.
[38:43] Speaker 10: Frosty was like one of the big wigs back then.
[38:46] Speaker 3: When you know, he's a Walter White of Parker County
[38:49] Speaker 3: when it came to you know, cookie methamphetamy. So Frosty
[38:52] Speaker 3: was very well connected to all of this and he
[38:55] Speaker 3: would have had his own people work theunneath him. And yeah,
[38:58] Speaker 3: he went out there. He was actively looking to find
[39:00] Speaker 3: out who shot A. Shelley because you know, Shelley was
[39:02] Speaker 3: his niece. So I have no doubt that he found out.
[39:06] Speaker 1: As Mel started digging around, when she came to Frosty's
[39:10] Speaker 1: Facebook page, what she saw made even more sense, really.
[39:16] Speaker 3: Interesting with Frosty's pages and he has gosh, like two
[39:19] Speaker 3: thousand people in there. But the highlight though, is it's
[39:22] Speaker 3: like das and investigators and PD you know, and most
[39:27] Speaker 3: time you don't like lifelong dope words, you're not going
[39:29] Speaker 3: to have police on your Facebook page.
[39:33] Speaker 1: Mel and I decided we needed to find Frosty put
[39:37] Speaker 1: it all to him directly. Word was that he had
[39:40] Speaker 1: been placed in hospice and closing in on his seventies,
[39:43] Speaker 1: was dying, so we agreed it was time to find
[39:47] Speaker 1: out if he wanted to talk to me for the podcast,
[39:50] Speaker 1: maybe get anything off his chest before the lights go out.
[39:55] Speaker 1: I was in the process of doing the same for
[39:57] Speaker 1: the names I have been censoring, reaching out to them
[40:01] Speaker 1: and giving both an opportunity to speak for themselves. Mel
[40:11] Speaker 1: mentioned the name Alan. You've heard briefly from Alan Carter
[40:16] Speaker 1: in this podcast. I reached back out to him again
[40:21] Speaker 1: and I asked him about Frosty, and what he had
[40:25] Speaker 1: to say added more depth and construct to the consistent,
[40:29] Speaker 1: most popular motive in this case. As novelist Larry McMurtry
[41:06] Speaker 1: once wrote, the hardest thing on earth is choosing what matters.
[41:14] Speaker 1: What I appreciate about guys like Alan Carter, maybe because
[41:18] Speaker 1: in some very small way they remind me of myself,
[41:21] Speaker 1: is how unafraid they are to speak their truth and
[41:25] Speaker 1: say what they feel. In this business of gathering information
[41:30] Speaker 1: in ice cold murder cases. You cannot help but to
[41:35] Speaker 1: respect that there are not a lot of those people
[41:39] Speaker 1: left in the real world.
[41:42] Speaker 8: Okay, the girl's name.
[41:43] Speaker 4: Was Califlower, her uncle was Frosty Cauliflower.
[41:47] Speaker 1: That was my knee, well, my kine.
[41:50] Speaker 8: And we're cheating because they're both trying to sell built
[41:55] Speaker 8: in the same area.
[41:56] Speaker 1: So and Frosty we're at odds with each other.
[42:00] Speaker 4: Ah, he is where it gets twisted. Frosty wouldn't cook them.
[42:04] Speaker 1: Okay, okay, but the big ape.
[42:10] Speaker 8: That got out of the car, it's a whole lot
[42:12] Speaker 8: like it, No kidding, Because they asked me who I
[42:17] Speaker 8: thought it was.
[42:18] Speaker 4: I thought it was.
[42:20] Speaker 1: No shit. Allan then tells me law enforcement paid him
[42:25] Speaker 1: a visit as recently as late twenty twenty three.
[42:29] Speaker 8: Well, see the top pin in my house here, and
[42:32] Speaker 8: they're accusing me of well, for wong they started changing everything,
[42:35] Speaker 8: and I said, well, for y'all get all hung and
[42:38] Speaker 8: all of a sudden, you would need to understand that
[42:39] Speaker 8: I took a pulley about passed and I passed it
[42:42] Speaker 8: playing colors.
[42:43] Speaker 1: So let's don't get to assume the thanks here.
[42:46] Speaker 8: Because they said, well, you know it was.
[42:48] Speaker 1: Said that you and uh the name he mentions, there
[42:52] Speaker 1: is someone connected to the sausage King, Weldon Kennedy. When
[42:57] Speaker 1: they came to you last year. They were interested in well.
[43:00] Speaker 8: They were asking me all times of questions about it,
[43:03] Speaker 8: and I told him that one I said, well, the
[43:08] Speaker 8: same gun, apparently the same gun that he was caught with,
[43:12] Speaker 8: the same gun that killed the.
[43:13] Speaker 10: People on the hell.
[43:18] Speaker 1: So here is a source telling me that one of
[43:20] Speaker 1: those names everyone is mentioned, the guy who now lives
[43:23] Speaker 1: in seclusion, had been caught with the murder weapon. If
[43:34] Speaker 1: you recall from the beginning of the podcast, Alan Carter
[43:38] Speaker 1: said he saw a dude in a cowboy hat driving
[43:42] Speaker 1: a law enforcement vehicle parked behind Vincent's car up on
[43:46] Speaker 1: Piss Hill on the night the kids were murdered, close
[43:50] Speaker 1: to the time most think the murders occurred.
[43:55] Speaker 8: Maybe you do, but I mean, but I know what
[43:58] Speaker 8: I saw again on the car and then uh, when
[44:04] Speaker 8: I started mentioning it, but somebody said talking on Facebook,
[44:08] Speaker 8: and I said, well, y'all, I need to talk about
[44:10] Speaker 8: you on Facebook and say, well, I's come over there
[44:12] Speaker 8: and see me. And I said, you don't want me
[44:13] Speaker 8: to come see you.
[44:15] Speaker 3: I said I don't like you, and he GOI, well,
[44:17] Speaker 3: I'm coming to see you.
[44:18] Speaker 8: And I said, you better not be caught over here.
[44:21] Speaker 8: You're at your just diction and you ain't got buddies
[44:23] Speaker 8: over here.
[44:25] Speaker 1: I said, I ain't playing with you.
[44:26] Speaker 5: I said, I don't told you.
[44:27] Speaker 8: And now y'all stay away from me. I'm going to
[44:29] Speaker 8: think you're trying to hurt me. And the reason is
[44:32] Speaker 8: is because right after all this started coming down and
[44:34] Speaker 8: then became the murders and all that.
[44:39] Speaker 4: A lot of the people started.
[44:40] Speaker 8: Disappearing, getting killed, weird accidents.
[44:44] Speaker 1: All kinds of stuff coming up in the next episode
[44:55] Speaker 1: Paper Ghosts.
[44:57] Speaker 8: But somebody told them that me and him we're out together.
[45:00] Speaker 8: Oh man, what I'm here?
[45:03] Speaker 4: He failed his polygraph? I failed, Bob.
[45:07] Speaker 8: That's why when they were asking me on no he
[45:09] Speaker 8: looks like when they asked me that on a polygraph,
[45:11] Speaker 8: I said.
[45:12] Speaker 4: That I pad.
[45:13] Speaker 8: I still thank you cooling, Neil, thanks you strengthly Caldi
[45:17] Speaker 8: with he couldn't stand and see him Mexican.
[45:21] Speaker 4: He is a white girl.
[45:24] Speaker 3: I did tell him. I was like, well, I was like,
[45:26] Speaker 3: through some fact channels, we'll leave it there now. I
[45:29] Speaker 3: did get a copy of actually's on TOOS report and
[45:32] Speaker 3: he's like, okay. So we also found out that we
[45:35] Speaker 3: were missus balming or you know, shells.
[45:38] Speaker 10: In Pommery for it.
[45:44] Speaker 1: Paper Ghost season five is written and executive produced by
[45:49] Speaker 1: me and William Phelps. Script consulting by iHeartMedia executive producer
[45:55] Speaker 1: Catherine Law. Production by toc Boom Productions are audio mastering
[46:00] Speaker 1: and mixing by Brandon Dickert. The series' theme number four
[46:05] Speaker 1: four two is written and performed by Thomas Phelps and
[46:09] Speaker 1: Tom Mooney.

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