# Fighting Fair: What Took Us Years To Learn

An episode of [Wives Not Sisters](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1526416076), 14 Oct 2025, 1 h 00 min.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1238504/episodes/17974961-fighting-fair-what-took-us-years-to-learn.mp3

In this episode, Alix and Kayla get real about what it means to fight fair after six years together. From weirdly specific compliments to the unspoken rules that keep their relationship grounded, the couple unpacks how they’ve learned to communicate, manage triggers, and find humor in the chaos. Expect laughter, honesty, and a little courtroom energy. Timestamps: 00:00 – Weirdly specific compliments 💕 10:50 – Why we fight and how it’s changed over time 14:30 – Ground rules for healthy conflict 20:00 – Common triggers and communication styles 31:40 – “Building the case” & learning to self-regulate 44:00 – Healing attachment styles + therapy breakthroughs 51:00 – How to turn fights into inside jokes 54:10 – “Who’s the Problem?” segment (Bathroom counters & true crime) #Hashtags: #WivesNotSisters #CouplesPodcast #FightingFair #RelationshipGoals #QueerLove #MarriageHumor #CommunicationTips #AttachmentStyles #LGBTQPodcast #PodcastClips Connect with us on social media: IG: @wivesnotsisterspod | TikTok: @wivesnotsisterspod | Youtube: @wivesnotsisterspod Follow our hosts on Instagram: @kaylalanielsen @alix_tucker You can also watch our episodes on Youtube at youtube.com/@wivesnotsisterspod!

## Transcript

[0:08] Speaker 00: Hey guys, it's Alix and Kayla.
[0:10] Speaker 00: And we're married, not related, definitely codependent.
[0:14] Speaker 00: But in a cute way, and we are back at it again.
[0:17] Speaker 00: Here we are.
[0:18] Speaker 00: What?
[0:21] Speaker 01: That sounded so cheesy.
[0:23] Speaker 01: That was not planned.
[0:24] Speaker 01: But it was not planned.
[0:26] Speaker 00: Oh my goodness.
[0:27] Speaker 01: Okay, so it is your turn to lead, but before you do, you know I have to give a shout out to everyone who has left us reviews, comments, social media love.
[0:38] Speaker 01: We literally couldn't grow without you guys.
[0:41] Speaker 01: I love it.
[0:42] Speaker 01: So we just wanted to say that.
[0:43] Speaker 03: I like seeing all the comp the comments and all the people siding with me.
[0:46] Speaker 01: Okay, relaxed.
[0:47] Speaker 03: Especially over the popsicles.
[0:48] Speaker 03: Really?
[0:49] Speaker 03: Because that one was personal.
[0:51] Speaker 01: Okay.
[0:51] Speaker 01: That's not what we're here for to encourage this narcissism.
[0:56] Speaker 01: But but seriously, it does.
[0:59] Speaker 01: It helps us so much when you leave reviews and also when you share with your friends.
[1:03] Speaker 01: We've had so many people just say, like, oh, my queer friend showed this to me, or I had a friend who's queer.
[1:09] Speaker 01: Also, we have lots of straight people who listen, but you know what I mean.
[1:12] Speaker 01: It's just nice to see it kind of grow through word of mouth that way.
[1:15] Speaker 01: So thank you.
[1:16] Speaker 01: Keep it up so that we can keep growing.
[1:18] Speaker 01: Love it.
[1:19] Speaker 01: Now it's your turn to lead.
[1:21] Speaker 03: It's my turn to lead.
[1:22] Speaker 03: Okay, cool.
[1:23] Speaker 03: Today we're gonna be giving each other weirdly specific compliments.
[1:29] Speaker 01: Okay.
[1:29] Speaker 01: Which is gonna be fun.
[1:31] Speaker 01: I feel like you're doing this because spoiler alert, the main topic is fighting fair.
[1:37] Speaker 03: Well, yeah, if we're gonna talk about our fighting, I might as well get some compliments.
[1:40] Speaker 01: Exactly.
[1:41] Speaker 01: Exactly.
[1:41] Speaker 01: This is just a precursor to what we fight about.
[1:44] Speaker 01: But yeah.
[1:44] Speaker 03: Plus, you know, I love uh compliments, words of affirmation, give it all to me.
[1:49] Speaker 03: Exactly.
[1:49] Speaker 03: We'll get into that, I'm sure.
[1:51] Speaker 01: But so you're giving them to me or I guess I could start.
[1:56] Speaker 01: Okay, so you're gonna give them to me.
[1:58] Speaker 03: I'm gonna give you compliments.
[1:59] Speaker 01: Because before, when we talked about this, you said, Am I giving them to myself?
[2:04] Speaker 01: And I said, What the fuck are you talking about?
[2:08] Speaker 03: I well, I said, Am I giving them to you or myself?
[2:11] Speaker 01: And also to myself, or just to you?
[2:14] Speaker 01: I'm like, please, yes.
[2:22] Speaker 03: I don't know.
[2:23] Speaker 03: Maybe they want to hear my weird things that I would compliment myself on.
[2:26] Speaker 01: Okay, lay it on me.
[2:28] Speaker 03: Okay, the first one I'm gonna give you is that, you know, when you're out in public and someone, you know, a stranger comes up to you and is like, hey, like, can you take a photo of me and my boyfriend or something like that?
[2:40] Speaker 03: First of all, like, I get so nervous because I'm like, don't ask me, I'm gonna mess it up.
[2:46] Speaker 03: But you are like the perfect person for a stranger to find to ask to like take the photo because you they always get the best photos, like you always know how to get the best shots of people.
[2:56] Speaker 01: I was like, where is this going?
[2:58] Speaker 03: But okay, okay, I'll take it.
[3:00] Speaker 03: You know, you know how to get the money shots, if you will.
[3:02] Speaker 01: Yeah, I'm an Instagrammer.
[3:04] Speaker 03: Yeah, I'm a really bad Instagram boyfriend.
[3:06] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[3:07] Speaker 03: Okay.
[3:08] Speaker 03: The next one I'm gonna give you is that you could survive a really, really long time in like a zombie apocalypse or like an Armageddon situation, or if you were like on a deserted island, like I think you could outlast pretty much anyone.
[3:23] Speaker 01: Is this a compliment?
[3:24] Speaker 01: Is the question.
[3:25] Speaker 01: I think it is, or am I just scary?
[3:27] Speaker 03: No, I think it's like you're very resilient.
[3:30] Speaker 03: You are you have like a fighter spirit, okay, and like you're nothing's gonna, nothing's gonna take you down.
[3:37] Speaker 01: Except for attempt to be a little bit more than a few years.
[3:38] Speaker 01: You'll find a way to survive.
[3:40] Speaker 01: I mean, I've been taken down.
[3:42] Speaker 03: Like for me, on the other hand, I would die in a day.
[3:44] Speaker 03: Like I would die on day one of Armageddon.
[3:47] Speaker 01: You die day one of your period every month.
[3:49] Speaker 01: So yes, yes, you would.
[3:52] Speaker 03: Um okay, my next one for you is a compliment that you receive a lot.
[3:58] Speaker 01: Oh no.
[3:59] Speaker 03: But it's weirdly specific.
[4:00] Speaker 03: Oh no.
[4:01] Speaker 03: It's your posture.
[4:02] Speaker 03: Okay, I thought you were gonna say my feet, and I was about to say, like, people will drive by and from the car, they'll be like, wow, what an amazing posture you have.
[4:12] Speaker 03: That's just because we live in essentially a retirement community.
[4:17] Speaker 03: It's not on your 300-hour training.
[4:19] Speaker 03: All the girls on your training were like, it's incredible how you keep such a perfect posture for like eight hours straight while you're giving us a class.
[4:26] Speaker 03: Like it's insane.
[4:27] Speaker 03: So we know there's no scoliosis here.
[4:29] Speaker 01: Well, I mean, yeah.
[4:31] Speaker 01: So, okay, thank you.
[4:32] Speaker 01: And fairly specific, right?
[4:34] Speaker 01: Okay, and then and I will just say, unlike you, I get really awkward with being showered with compliments.
[4:40] Speaker 01: So I'm like, yeah, yeah, move on.
[4:41] Speaker 03: Even if they're weird compliments, you're already getting so uncomfortable.
[4:44] Speaker 01: I just don't even know what to say.
[4:46] Speaker 03: Okay, and the last one, it really um bodes into the conversation we're gonna be having.
[4:53] Speaker 00: Oh no.
[4:54] Speaker 03: But you could be a lead prosecutor, you could be like a district attorney for how good you are at building cases against anyone, but really also mostly against me.
[5:05] Speaker 01: Mm-hmm.
[5:06] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[5:06] Speaker 01: Well, you're an easy person.
[5:07] Speaker 03: But you should have been a lawyer.
[5:09] Speaker 03: You should have gone to law school.
[5:10] Speaker 01: My parents always told me that.
[5:12] Speaker 01: And but it's really impressive.
[5:13] Speaker 01: It's not too late.
[5:14] Speaker 01: I'm only 37, okay?
[5:16] Speaker 03: Yeah, you're gonna pull a Kim K?
[5:17] Speaker 01: I was gonna say, look at Kim K.
[5:19] Speaker 01: She's an inspiration to us all, isn't she?
[5:21] Speaker 01: I think so.
[5:22] Speaker 01: I mean, I can't even say that with a straight face.
[5:24] Speaker 03: So that's what I got for you today.
[5:25] Speaker 01: Okay, I had to write mine down because Did you like my compliments?
[5:29] Speaker 01: Now I have to compliment your compliments.
[5:32] Speaker 01: It's not even about me.
[5:33] Speaker 01: Now it's just Please affirm me.
[5:35] Speaker 01: Please affirm that my compliments are good enough.
[5:37] Speaker 01: They were great.
[5:38] Speaker 01: I'm deeply uncomfortable.
[5:40] Speaker 01: They were amazing.
[5:41] Speaker 01: Perfect.
[5:42] Speaker 01: Are you happy?
[5:42] Speaker 03: Yeah, thank you.
[5:43] Speaker 01: Okay.
[5:44] Speaker 01: So this might be this is really hard look to describe, but you'll know exactly what I mean.
[5:50] Speaker 01: It's just your slippery face.
[5:52] Speaker 01: So that's the compliment, is your slippery face.
[5:56] Speaker 01: And this is a as a very specific look.
[5:58] Speaker 01: You don't give it to me as much anymore, but you're kind of trying to give it to me right now, but you've kind of lost it.
[6:05] Speaker 01: I think you need to tap back in.
[6:07] Speaker 01: But when we first met, you used to give it to me, and you do this thing with your mouth when you're doing it.
[6:13] Speaker 01: And I was trying to pinpoint it when we first met and we were friends, and I was like, you're just so, so slippery.
[6:20] Speaker 01: Like it was the only word that came to mind.
[6:22] Speaker 01: And a compliment?
[6:23] Speaker 01: Yeah, you're like, that doesn't feel like a compliment.
[6:25] Speaker 01: And our surf instructor at the place we were at was French.
[6:29] Speaker 01: So English was her second language, and she's like, What is this slippery?
[6:32] unknown: Like, what is this?
[6:34] Speaker 01: But I was like, Can't you tell?
[6:35] Speaker 01: Look at her face.
[6:36] Speaker 01: She's slippery.
[6:38] Speaker 01: It's kind of like Shane.
[6:39] Speaker 01: I mean, all the L word references, it's like, you guys, we've said this five million times.
[6:43] Speaker 01: We have been re-watching the L word, it is ever present, but it's the slippery look on your face.
[6:50] Speaker 01: Okay.
[6:50] Speaker 01: We're getting specific.
[6:53] Speaker 01: I like when you drive with just one hand.
[6:56] Speaker 01: Okay.
[6:58] Speaker 01: And it's even better if then like your other hand is on my knee or something.
[7:03] Speaker 01: But it's like, it's it's also, I guess, about the posture.
[7:06] Speaker 01: It's not, it's just like very laid back.
[7:08] Speaker 01: Not when you're road raging, but it's like just this.
[7:12] Speaker 01: Actually, now that I think about it, the image I have is really more you driving our truck in Nicaragua with one hand.
[7:18] Speaker 01: Because then the other hand is also on the whatever it's called.
[7:22] Speaker 01: The stick shit.
[7:23] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[7:24] Speaker 03: What about when I parallel park with one arm?
[7:29] Speaker 01: I need to pay better attention into tight spaces.
[7:32] Speaker 01: This sounds like you're giving yourself a compliment, but um I will pay better attention to that, okay?
[7:39] Speaker 01: Okay, so this one, I will say it doesn't happen often, which is why I really appreciate it when it does.
[7:48] Speaker 01: If you go to a friend gathering, or even if you're just like texting a friend that in a group chat I'm not a part of, when you ask the right questions, it's the best.
[7:58] Speaker 01: Because usually it's like you come home and I'm like, oh, what's going on with this?
[8:02] Speaker 01: Did you tell about that?
[8:03] Speaker 01: I have like all these questions, and you're like, I don't know.
[8:05] Speaker 01: This feels like something I don't do.
[8:07] Speaker 01: But you do do it sometimes.
[8:08] Speaker 01: And that's why it's so good when you do it.
[8:10] Speaker 01: When I ask you and you're like, I've got tea.
[8:13] Speaker 01: And I'm like, good job.
[8:17] Speaker 01: You did it.
[8:18] Speaker 01: You did it.
[8:19] Speaker 03: I got the right info.
[8:21] Speaker 01: Exactly.
[8:21] Speaker 01: I love it.
[8:22] Speaker 01: Okay.
[8:23] Speaker 01: This one is, I mean, this is maybe the biggest compliment of all.
[8:29] Speaker 01: The voice that you have for our dog.
[8:31] Speaker 01: Because now I also do the same voice.
[8:34] Speaker 01: Like that, you nailed it.
[8:35] Speaker 01: That is her voice.
[8:37] Speaker 01: I don't know how it evolved and like when that happened.
[8:41] Speaker 01: But okay, most people with animals, unless you're not like when I'm pretending to be to be her.
[8:46] Speaker 03: Sandia.
[8:46] Speaker 03: Yeah, not talking as her.
[8:48] Speaker 01: As her.
[8:49] Speaker 01: Not when you're talking to her, but it's like you just really nailed it where it's like that is her voice.
[8:54] Speaker 03: The thing is, is I don't even think I could do it right now.
[8:56] Speaker 03: And it like comes through me.
[8:58] Speaker 01: So she's channeling.
[9:00] Speaker 01: I'm channeling the dog.
[9:01] Speaker 01: I don't I can't.
[9:01] Speaker 01: But I do the same voice now because it's like that just is her voice.
[9:05] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[9:05] Speaker 01: That is her.
[9:06] Speaker 01: And it's very specific.
[9:08] Speaker 01: It's very specific.
[9:09] Speaker 01: And it's one of your greatest works of art.
[9:12] Speaker 01: Thank you.
[9:13] Speaker 03: Thank you, babe.
[9:14] Speaker 01: Um, and then this is the last one that's not maybe like super specific, but and maybe it's just because I really suck at this.
[9:20] Speaker 01: You always remember everybody's name the first time they tell you.
[9:24] Speaker 01: I mean, I don't.
[9:26] Speaker 01: That's not true.
[9:26] Speaker 01: Okay, well, I'll be like, what was their name again?
[9:29] Speaker 01: And you always tell me what it is.
[9:31] Speaker 01: Okay.
[9:32] Speaker 01: I never remember I'm so bad at names.
[9:35] Speaker 01: I try too, but I just especially, you know, when you meet someone and you're like, that's not your name because they don't look like their name.
[9:43] Speaker 01: And so it then I it takes me even longer to correlate it, but you also remember last names.
[9:50] Speaker 01: I do, yeah.
[9:51] Speaker 01: It's kind of crazy.
[9:53] Speaker 01: Yeah, that's true, actually.
[9:54] Speaker 01: And it's really trying to remember me's names because I don't, I'm not good at it.
[10:00] Speaker 03: Remember how one of our new friends was like, you know that Kayla's not your name, right?
[10:04] Speaker 03: And she was like, I feel like your name is Tahini.
[10:07] Speaker 03: And I just thought that was so cute.
[10:09] Speaker 01: Well, especially because I'm changing my last name to Tucker.
[10:12] Speaker 01: Tahini Tucker, baby.
[10:13] Speaker 01: Tahini Tucker.
[10:14] Speaker 01: It could either be a stripper or or it could be like a little like a Disney movie, you know, like the adventures of Tahini Tucker.
[10:24] Speaker 01: I like it.
[10:25] Speaker 01: No, I think it's too cutesy for me, but okay, it is very cute.
[10:29] Speaker 01: Okay, so today we're gonna get into fighting fair.
[10:38] Speaker 01: Yes.
[10:39] Speaker 01: And we'll just preface this by saying we've been together for six years.
[10:44] Speaker 01: So we're gonna talk about things that didn't work as well as things that are working now.
[10:51] Speaker 01: Overall, we don't fight that frequently anymore.
[10:54] Speaker 01: I know that you like to think that we just don't fight at all.
[11:00] Speaker 03: We do fight, but it's not that regularly.
[11:02] Speaker 01: It's it's not only that.
[11:04] Speaker 01: It's like we can bicker or bitch at each other.
[11:06] Speaker 01: But it's they're like, you're doing it on the podcast.
[11:12] Speaker 01: We know.
[11:12] Speaker 01: Yes, we know.
[11:13] Speaker 01: Um, yeah, so we do that, but it's like we don't have these big drawn-out things the way that we used to.
[11:20] Speaker 03: No, it's and usually it's like it's I don't know.
[11:24] Speaker 03: What do you what would you say?
[11:25] Speaker 03: Two to four times a year, we have like an argument where we're like very upset.
[11:29] Speaker 01: You're obsessed with putting numbers on things.
[11:31] Speaker 01: Because for me, it's like modify.
[11:33] Speaker 03: We don't fight that often, but we do fight.
[11:35] Speaker 01: Yes.
[11:36] Speaker 03: But it's like when we first got together, it's like if we would fight, sometimes the fight would last like three days.
[11:41] Speaker 03: Sometimes was not fun.
[11:43] Speaker 03: It happened most of the time.
[11:44] Speaker 03: And some we have friends who are like, oh, like, explain to me like how you guys communicate now.
[11:50] Speaker 03: How did you guys get over like the fighting and stuff?
[11:52] Speaker 03: And I'm like, well, it was like three years, you know?
[11:55] Speaker 03: It was like, sometimes I think it's just like the time to get to know somebody and like really learn them.
[12:01] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[12:01] Speaker 03: Is a huge part of it.
[12:02] Speaker 03: Like the longer you're with somebody, it's either you're either gonna figure it out or you're gonna break up.
[12:07] Speaker 00: Yeah.
[12:07] Speaker 03: And I think we've like gotten past the hump of like, now we've know each other so well and we figured out what works and what doesn't work, and we're past that hump and we're not breaking up, baby.
[12:16] Speaker 01: Well, I was telling you this when, well, thank you.
[12:19] Speaker 01: I'm glad we're not breaking up.
[12:21] Speaker 01: Uh I was telling you this this, I think it was this morning because I was like, honey, are you ready to fight today on the podcast?
[12:28] Speaker 01: And you're like, wait, what?
[12:29] Speaker 01: We're fighting.
[12:30] Speaker 01: And I was like, no, we're, I was just kidding.
[12:32] Speaker 01: But also, I think if we did have this conversation a couple of years ago, because I can't remember when it was, maybe two years ago, Abby and Glenn and had shared something similar on their podcast because you had listened to it.
[12:45] Speaker 01: I didn't listen to it.
[12:46] Speaker 03: And you kind of shared like one of the top five fights that they have.
[12:49] Speaker 01: And so you had summarized it for me.
[12:51] Speaker 01: And we were on a walk, and you're like, what do you think ours are?
[12:54] Speaker 01: And just talking about it made us fight.
[12:56] Speaker 01: Not like anything serious, but just like, no, it's because you do it.
[13:01] Speaker 01: This, you know, it's just like you start getting all heightened and triggered, expensive.
[13:04] Speaker 01: And then we, I mean, before we do these episodes, we always talk about it.
[13:09] Speaker 01: And and so we were talking about this episode a couple of days ago.
[13:13] Speaker 01: We didn't get in a fight.
[13:14] Speaker 01: We were just like, oh yeah.
[13:16] Speaker 03: That's exactly it.
[13:17] Speaker 01: Yeah, you do do that.
[13:18] Speaker 01: Oh, yeah, I do that.
[13:19] Speaker 01: And so I was like, okay, we can do this.
[13:22] Speaker 01: We can do this, we can do it.
[13:24] Speaker 01: That's progress.
[13:26] Speaker 03: So yeah, we're gonna tell you all about our fight.
[13:30] Speaker 01: How it's evolved, and you know, I feel like it's kind of broken up into two things where it's like what we fight about and then how we fight.
[13:38] Speaker 01: Because in my mind, those are two sort of different things.
[13:42] Speaker 01: Definitely.
[13:42] Speaker 01: Where you know, it's like the thing that you're fighting about.
[13:46] Speaker 03: It's usually the how parts that's the problem.
[13:48] Speaker 01: For me, that is definitely the problem.
[13:50] Speaker 01: It's the how.
[13:51] Speaker 01: I'm much more about the the kind of fighting style.
[13:54] Speaker 01: I feel like the what can be the problem if it was like a huge betrayal, cheating, you know, like this big bad thing happened.
[14:02] Speaker 01: But let's say you have just kind of like a boring, relatively secure relationship.
[14:07] Speaker 01: Usually the what stuff you're fighting about is super small, petty, and stupid.
[14:12] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[14:12] Speaker 01: And then it's just the how it's responded to and then what it brings up and all of the triggers and bullshit that makes it so fun.
[14:21] Speaker 03: And I feel like we have some we have some ground rules as it relates to fighting.
[14:26] Speaker 01: Do you want to share them?
[14:27] Speaker 03: Well, I'll share some, maybe you share some.
[14:29] Speaker 01: Okay.
[14:30] Speaker 03: But I think it's like, and these are mostly unspoken.
[14:33] Speaker 03: We've never like sat down and said these things.
[14:35] Speaker 03: You know, it's just kind of like this is the way we do things in our house.
[14:39] Speaker 03: And like, I would just say the first thing is like just overall, it's about respect.
[14:44] Speaker 03: Which for us means like we don't yell, we don't name call.
[14:49] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[14:50] Speaker 03: It's like you can raise your voice, like when you're, you know, like it's natural to raise your voice, especially when you're getting heated and you want to like really get a point across, but we don't yell at each other.
[14:59] Speaker 01: I'm sorry.
[15:00] Speaker 01: I just had to I just imagined you last year during that eclipse.
[15:05] Speaker 01: I did yell.
[15:07] Speaker 01: You that was the only time I've ever yelled.
[15:09] Speaker 01: You lost your mind.
[15:10] Speaker 01: You okay.
[15:11] Speaker 01: But turn into a werewolf and a banshee, just like it's just like your eyes, your veins were bulging out.
[15:20] Speaker 01: But it was actually funny.
[15:22] Speaker 03: I had to sleep in a different room as you, which pretty much never happens after a fight.
[15:27] Speaker 03: This happened like three times in our relationship, or we fixed it.
[15:29] Speaker 01: No, I think more than that.
[15:31] Speaker 03: Max five.
[15:31] Speaker 01: If anything, I'm more likely to want to sleep separately.
[15:34] Speaker 01: Yeah, I don't remember what eclipse it was.
[15:40] Speaker 01: If it was like solar, lunar, what was happening?
[15:42] Speaker 01: You were in Sedona.
[15:44] Speaker 01: I blame it on the vortexes.
[15:45] Speaker 01: Exactly.
[15:46] Speaker 01: It was so heightened.
[15:47] Speaker 01: Vortices.
[15:47] Speaker 01: I don't know the plural.
[15:50] Speaker 01: It was so heightened and so I mean, it was a stressful time, but that was the one time where you just fully lost it.
[15:59] Speaker 01: But otherwise, I'm not very good at yelling, anyways.
[16:02] Speaker 01: My voice is very soft.
[16:03] Speaker 01: It hurts to yell.
[16:04] Speaker 01: So that one's an easy one for me.
[16:06] Speaker 01: But in that same vein, we also we don't call each other names.
[16:11] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[16:11] Speaker 01: So we won't be like you're fucking stupid, or that kind of stuff.
[16:16] Speaker 01: That I mean, again, this sounds like it should just be a given, but I would say pretty much all my other relationships, we said and did things like this.
[16:24] Speaker 01: So I don't know, it's especially when you are all emotional, it's easy for that stuff to just kind of come out.
[16:32] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[16:32] Speaker 03: I feel like the these aren't necessarily rules, but also just like things that from therapy that have like helped us would be like not saying like always you or never, like you always do this, you never do that.
[16:45] Speaker 03: Yeah, or I think in general we try to explain like this is what happened, this is how I it made me feel, and like this is what I would like to be different.
[16:56] Speaker 03: You know, like kind of in general, we follow some, we have like some structure to the way we talk.
[17:02] Speaker 03: And that's like I would say, like, kind of somewhat of the rules is to try not try to avoid being like, you did this to me, you did that to me, you know, like just but that's just more I feel like trying to communicate as effectively as possible.
[17:14] Speaker 01: Yeah, that's like therapy 101.
[17:16] Speaker 01: Yeah, which by the way, we've never been to couples therapy, but that was just from our own individual experiences with therapy.
[17:22] Speaker 01: Yep.
[17:23] Speaker 01: And we I mean, we're not opposed to couples therapy.
[17:27] Speaker 01: There have been a few times we've thought about it, but yeah, I don't really it was a long time ago.
[17:33] Speaker 01: It was a long run because it just felt like we were communicating and just not it wasn't landing at all.
[17:40] Speaker 01: It just was not working.
[17:43] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[17:44] Speaker 03: And the other rule I would say is that like it's mostly you allowing this for me, but sometimes when I get overwhelmed, like or if there's something there's a lot for me to process, I just need time and space to like absorb it before I can like come back with how I want to proceed.
[18:05] Speaker 01: I do that too.
[18:06] Speaker 03: But I feel like it's type you typically are granting that more for me because I get overwhelmed in the moment.
[18:11] Speaker 01: Yeah, yours is more you get overwhelmed in the moment, so you can't even respond.
[18:16] Speaker 01: Whereas for me, even once we've resolved, I'm like, I just need a little space before being able to go back and pretend like everything is normal and be all cuddly and cute.
[18:24] Speaker 01: You know what I mean?
[18:25] Speaker 01: It's like you need that time kind of right in the middle of the fight, which can feel hard to grant when I'm like, what?
[18:32] Speaker 01: No, I need you to respond to this.
[18:34] Speaker 01: I've gotten better at this.
[18:36] Speaker 01: You have gotten a lot better.
[18:37] Speaker 03: I don't usually ask for this as much anymore, but sometimes I do need it because it's just like my brain's at once.
[18:43] Speaker 03: This brain is overloaded, and I need to like come back to it with a fresh mind.
[18:48] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[18:48] Speaker 03: Right to be effective.
[18:50] Speaker 01: And and you also grant it to me because usually after you immediately want this kind of like physical connection, even if it's just like a hug, I'm not saying even sexual, but it's just you want some kind of physical touch after to know like we're all good, and you can easily go from we just resolved to being totally normal again.
[19:08] Speaker 01: And I need, even if it's just like 30 minutes or something where I'm kind of like, yeah, get away from me still, you know, and then you come back in the room and it's okay.
[19:16] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[19:17] Speaker 03: And I think it's like important to figure out like, what are the ground rules in your relationship, whether they're spoken or unspoken, and like, you know, what are the things that makes things more effective or efficient.
[19:30] Speaker 01: And I will say also deciding those before you're in the fight.
[19:33] Speaker 01: Because if you're trying to figure those out while you're fighting, then it's essentially pointless.
[19:39] Speaker 01: Because again, when you're all heightened and triggered, and it's just a lot of sensibility can go out the window.
[19:46] Speaker 01: So kind of figuring these things out, even when if you're in this really good patch and you're like, we don't need this stuff, it's like that's the perfect time to figure it out because you'll probably come to the best solution.
[19:59] Speaker 01: And it takes a little bit of time some time to actually implement it into the fighting moment because it can be easy to forget the rules when you are all pissed off and everything, but it's just kind of something to keep it contained.
[20:13] Speaker 01: Yeah, definitely.
[20:16] Speaker 03: So should we tell them about our most common fights?
[20:19] Speaker 03: I feel nervous.
[20:21] Speaker 03: Let's do it.
[20:22] Speaker 03: Okay.
[20:24] Speaker 01: Do you want to start?
[20:25] Speaker 01: Uh you go first because you have the notes and I have perimenopause, so I can't remember.
[20:30] Speaker 01: I can't remember.
[20:31] Speaker 03: Okay.
[20:32] Speaker 03: Well, I feel like you were talking about the what and the how.
[20:35] Speaker 03: And like the things for you that are the what's that kind of get you all triggered and riled up, mothered, is like feeling dismissed, or feeling like I'm not paying attention to you, or feel like I'm not listening to you.
[20:50] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[20:51] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[20:51] Speaker 01: So I think we have established this on another episode before that you are Dory.
[20:56] Speaker 01: You know, your memory is very fleeting.
[20:59] Speaker 01: So it's true.
[21:00] Speaker 01: That is something I've always known about you, which is kind of like funny and silly and fine, but it can also feel frustrating because it can sometimes feel like you're not listening to me, even though that might not be the case.
[21:13] Speaker 01: And when I feel like I'm not being heard, it's like a I need to be heard.
[21:18] Speaker 01: Why aren't you listening?
[21:19] Speaker 01: Why don't because I guess it translates to like, why don't you care?
[21:22] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[21:23] Speaker 01: You know?
[21:23] Speaker 03: And this could be something small like feed the dog.
[21:26] Speaker 03: You ask me to do something, and like before you leave the house, can you feed the dog before you start work?
[21:31] Speaker 03: And I'll be like, Yes, of course.
[21:34] Speaker 03: And then 10 minutes later, I've already forgotten that you've asked me this, and I just started my day.
[21:39] Speaker 03: And then you get home and you're so mad because you're like, You're not listening to me, you know, like why are you doing that?
[21:45] Speaker 03: And it's like it's unintentional for me.
[21:48] Speaker 03: I can be just a very forgetful person.
[21:50] Speaker 03: Like, I will listen to you, acknowledge you, and then literally it's out of my mind.
[21:55] Speaker 03: I'm on to something else.
[21:56] Speaker 01: Or it could feel like, okay, at least with this example with a dog, it can feel like I asked you to do one thing, I'm doing everything else.
[22:03] Speaker 01: I'm taking her to the beach, I'm giving her a bath, I'm taking her to the vet.
[22:06] Speaker 01: I just asked you to do this one thing, and you couldn't do this one thing, and I'm doing everything else.
[22:11] Speaker 01: So maybe it's also that connection to feeling underappreciated or something, you know?
[22:16] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[22:16] Speaker 01: But yeah.
[22:19] Speaker 03: What else you got on there?
[22:20] Speaker 03: It's it's bad.
[22:21] Speaker 03: I definitely do that.
[22:22] Speaker 03: I it's unintentional.
[22:24] Speaker 03: I don't mean to do it.
[22:25] Speaker 03: Um I would say, well, another one of our like what fights?
[22:32] Speaker 01: Yeah, like what do we fight?
[22:33] Speaker 01: What are the things?
[22:33] Speaker 01: What do we what are the things that we fight about?
[22:35] Speaker 03: Okay, I would say for me, it's it's what you just described, which is feeling underappreciated.
[22:40] Speaker 01: Yeah, that's a big one.
[22:42] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[22:43] Speaker 03: Because for me, it's like I want to hear you say the words where you're not a words of affirmation person.
[22:50] Speaker 03: And also it's like what will happen is you'll give me feedback about things I'm not doing right.
[22:59] Speaker 03: And I'm like, You need a feedback sandwich.
[23:01] Speaker 03: What about the 85 million things that I'm doing for us all the time that you'd never recognize me for, and you're just picking on me for this one thing.
[23:09] Speaker 03: So for me, I'm like, I need to feel like you appreciate me.
[23:14] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[23:15] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[23:15] Speaker 01: And then for me, it's like when you're doing that, or when you respond that way, I should say, then I'll feel like I I just wanted to tell you something in passing, you know, like, hey, why didn't you feed the dog?
[23:27] Speaker 01: I don't feel like I need to also then be like, I know that you've done you've cleaned the car and you filled up the gas and like list all the things that you have done.
[23:35] Speaker 01: It's like, I just want to be able to say the thing and get to the point, but you're more like, okay, then say the other things throughout the day or throughout just in our just anytime.
[23:45] Speaker 01: You can say that anytime.
[23:47] Speaker 01: It's okay.
[23:49] Speaker 03: And then if you told me about feeding the dog, I'd be like, okay, well, she knows all the things I'm doing for us.
[23:55] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[23:55] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[23:56] Speaker 03: She's not just picking on me.
[23:57] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[23:58] Speaker 01: That's how it feels to you, is that it's like I don't see the other things, even though I do, but I'm not good at vocalizing that I do.
[24:04] Speaker 01: So it's like I see the things, I feel appreciation, but I just don't vocalize it because I just forget.
[24:10] Speaker 01: Like, I don't know how else to explain it.
[24:13] Speaker 01: It's not this, well, I'm withholding this from you because I know you want it.
[24:16] Speaker 01: I'm just like, yeah, thank you in my mind.
[24:19] Speaker 01: And then, you know, I'm vocalizing the thing that I want, which is the thing you didn't do.
[24:26] Speaker 03: I think, I mean, those are the main things that we fight about in general.
[24:30] Speaker 03: Beyond just like, I would say in-house, we fight about all sorts of stuff.
[24:34] Speaker 01: Like, I don't even feel like we fight about it.
[24:36] Speaker 01: It's not fight about it.
[24:37] Speaker 03: It's like you give me feedback on it.
[24:39] Speaker 01: No, stop saying give me feedback.
[24:41] Speaker 01: This is not a book.
[24:41] Speaker 01: My no, as an example, as an example, I am, I think they have gathered at this point, maybe more cleanly than you.
[24:54] Speaker 01: You're not a dirty person.
[24:55] Speaker 01: No, I'm just a psychopath.
[24:57] Speaker 01: So it's fine.
[24:59] Speaker 01: But as an example, it's like this morning I came down, I'm making my breakfast, and I'm like, honey.
[25:04] Speaker 01: And you're like, yeah.
[25:05] Speaker 01: I'm like, why do I have to see what you made for dinner all over the stove?
[25:09] Speaker 01: You know, it's like kind of a joke.
[25:11] Speaker 03: There's like three crumbs on there.
[25:12] Speaker 03: Come on.
[25:13] Speaker 01: No, there were.
[25:14] Speaker 03: Or like a little bit of salt on the countertop.
[25:16] Speaker 01: No one can see it.
[25:17] Speaker 01: A few chunks of meat in the sink catcher, you know?
[25:20] Speaker 01: So, so yeah, it's it's kind of that's what we don't really fight about it now.
[25:26] Speaker 01: But before, when we first started dating, because this was a constant thing of this is this can happen with a roommate, not even a partner.
[25:34] Speaker 01: This is just sharing a space with someone.
[25:37] Speaker 01: It's pretty common for people to have two different levels of cleanliness, even if they're both relatively clean people, they're still usually not exactly the same.
[25:47] Speaker 01: So it's like you bicker about this kind of stuff.
[25:49] Speaker 01: Why didn't you put the towel in the thing?
[25:51] Speaker 01: Why did you put it here?
[25:53] Speaker 01: Or this is also one of my favorite things that you do.
[25:56] Speaker 01: And when I when I say favorite, I mean not my favorite.
[26:00] Speaker 01: Obviously.
[26:02] Speaker 01: Is that why are you laughing?
[26:05] Speaker 01: Because it's so funny.
[26:08] Speaker 01: I'll be I'll ask you to do something, whatever it is.
[26:11] Speaker 01: It's a small this is the example that happened the other day.
[26:13] Speaker 01: You were folding the laundry, you're like, where do these towels go?
[26:16] Speaker 01: And I said, in the linen closet in the hallway.
[26:19] Speaker 01: And you're like, Great.
[26:21] Speaker 01: Okay, so the next time I go into the hallway, I pass by the closet.
[26:26] Speaker 01: And instead of putting them in the closet, you put them just next to the closet outside of it.
[26:32] Speaker 01: And I'm like, why do you oh you do everything except for the final step, which is open the door and put them inside?
[26:40] Speaker 01: And it's like that with so many things where it's just like, what?
[26:45] Speaker 01: This would have taken five extra.
[26:48] Speaker 03: I'm really crying right now.
[26:50] Speaker 01: It's so funny.
[26:52] Speaker 01: I'm just like, what is going through your head that you couldn't open the closet door and just put them inside?
[26:59] Speaker 03: Why do you be like, you'll the most annoying part about it all is that you'll every time you catch me not completing the last step, it's like you have to call me over like a child.
[27:10] Speaker 03: And I'm always like, oh, what did I do now?
[27:13] Speaker 03: Like, I know that you're about to like chastise me for something.
[27:17] Speaker 03: No, and you'll be like, honey, like what did you do?
[27:19] Speaker 03: And I'm like, I don't know.
[27:21] Speaker 03: That's how you talk to the dog, which you just why do I show you?
[27:25] Speaker 03: Because otherwise I won't believe that you don't believe me.
[27:28] Speaker 03: I'll say because I think highly of myself, and I would never believe that I would never not complete the job.
[27:34] Speaker 01: Yeah, because that's what happens is if I were to just tell you you didn't put them in the closet, you put them outside, you'd be like, I would never do that.
[27:40] Speaker 01: And you get so defiant and so you're like, no, I would never do that.
[27:44] Speaker 01: I'm like, so you're telling me that I'm lying.
[27:46] Speaker 01: The thing is, I would do that.
[27:48] Speaker 01: So now I just show you, or if you're not in the vicinity, I take a photo and just send it to you.
[27:53] Speaker 01: No caption, nothing, just yeah, this happened.
[27:57] Speaker 03: You know, whatever.
[27:58] Speaker 01: But that's what I mean.
[27:58] Speaker 01: It's not a real fight, it's just it's actually hilarious to me at this point.
[28:03] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[28:05] Speaker 03: Those are so those are the biggest triggers of like the what we get triggered about.
[28:09] Speaker 03: And that can show up in a lot of different scenarios, yeah.
[28:13] Speaker 03: You know, bigger or smaller.
[28:15] Speaker 03: But then I feel like what takes the fight to a the next level is like how the how and the how yeah, the how we handle it, the how we respond to the initial trigger.
[28:27] Speaker 01: So it's like mine is feeling dismissed or unheard, yours is feeling underappreciated or undervalued.
[28:33] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[28:34] Speaker 01: So how are the hows?
[28:35] Speaker 01: What are the hows I mean?
[28:37] Speaker 03: Well, you really like if you're feeling dismissed and my reaction to you feeling dismissed is being defensive or responding in a way that's not predictable for you, then I feel like that drives you crazy.
[28:59] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[28:59] Speaker 01: Which I mean, we've said this so many times.
[29:02] Speaker 01: It doesn't happen as much anymore.
[29:04] Speaker 01: But what I mean is if what I'm saying is a small thing, like the towels, for instance, I'm like, oh my God, you didn't put them inside of the closet, you just put them next to it.
[29:13] Speaker 01: And it's kind of funny, even, you know, it's not like I'm not seriously angry, it's not gonna ruin my day.
[29:20] Speaker 01: But when you would reply to me with like, ma, you know, you get so upset by it because it's triggering that sort of imperfectionism in you.
[29:29] Speaker 01: Like, I couldn't possibly make a mistake like that.
[29:33] Speaker 01: And so then it's like your response, then I, you know, then I get heightened back at it, where I'm like, what?
[29:42] Speaker 01: Why are you yelling at me over something so small?
[29:45] Speaker 01: But you're like, why are you telling me something so small?
[29:49] Speaker 01: And then the small thing turns into this big thing.
[29:52] Speaker 03: Like if I would have just said, I'm sorry, I don't know why I did that, I should have put them away.
[29:57] Speaker 03: You'd be like, Okay, cool.
[29:58] Speaker 03: But if I'm like I didn't do that.
[30:01] Speaker 03: Or, like, why are you even bringing this up right now?
[30:03] Speaker 03: Like, tell me what to do.
[30:05] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[30:06] Speaker 01: Any of that kind of stuff.
[30:07] Speaker 03: Then you go back to the street.
[30:08] Speaker 03: It blows up.
[30:09] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[30:10] Speaker 01: Well, okay.
[30:13] Speaker 03: Relax.
[30:13] Speaker 03: No, but then it really escalates.
[30:17] Speaker 03: And then that's where things can like spiral and it turns into something bigger than it has to be.
[30:21] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[30:22] Speaker 01: Or the other thing that can kind of happen similarly to that, where it's like your defensiveness can get so strong that all of a sudden I'm the one bringing something to you that has either hurt me, minorly annoyed me, whatever it is.
[30:36] Speaker 01: But I'm bringing the thing to you and saying, hey, this happened and I didn't like it.
[30:40] Speaker 01: And now all of a sudden you're upset at me for bringing it to you as if I should be apologizing to you.
[30:47] Speaker 01: You should be.
[30:48] Speaker 01: And I'm like, what?
[30:50] Speaker 01: Isn't this gaslighting?
[30:52] Speaker 01: Like, what is this?
[30:53] Speaker 01: I don't know.
[30:54] Speaker 01: No, but I just that also really makes me mad because I'm like, come on, I was the one that brought this up.
[31:01] Speaker 01: Even if you just acknowledge it and say, okay, yes, that happened.
[31:05] Speaker 01: And also you bringing this up is making me feel this way, then it's like, cool, then we can address that next.
[31:10] Speaker 01: But the fact that you're trying to make me feel bad for bringing it up at all, again, it escalates.
[31:18] Speaker 03: And we've talked about this a few times, but like before I got diagnosed with my autoimmune conditions and got on the right hormones that helped me now balance and stabilize my hormones, I was a lot more emotionally volatile.
[31:30] Speaker 03: So sometimes I would be like, oh yeah, I'm totally right.
[31:34] Speaker 03: Like totally normal response.
[31:36] Speaker 03: But then sometimes I'd be like super defensive and get triggered really easily.
[31:40] Speaker 03: And that would basically make you not know what you were gonna get.
[31:45] Speaker 03: And so then you would start to hold things in.
[31:48] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[31:48] Speaker 03: And then you would do what?
[31:50] Speaker 01: Because I would never know.
[31:50] Speaker 01: I'm like, is this gonna be a big deal?
[31:52] Speaker 01: Is this, you know, is the reaction, is the crime gonna fit the punishment kind of thing?
[31:57] Speaker 01: Where it's like, is the reaction going to equal whatever I'm saying?
[32:00] Speaker 01: And when it felt really unstable, then I wouldn't say anything and I would be like, it's cool, I'm just gonna brush it off.
[32:07] Speaker 01: But I wasn't brushing it off.
[32:09] Speaker 01: I was remembering everything.
[32:10] Speaker 01: And this is what you call building a case.
[32:13] Speaker 01: Yes.
[32:14] Speaker 01: And this is the thing that you hate.
[32:16] Speaker 03: Because you have what do they call it when you have like where you have like photographic memory?
[32:22] Speaker 03: You have a photographic memory, you remember everything.
[32:25] Speaker 01: I can't even remember this conversation without the notes in front of me.
[32:29] Speaker 01: You remember everything.
[32:30] Speaker 01: If I do something that pisses you off, you will never forget it.
[32:33] Speaker 01: Ever.
[32:34] Speaker 01: That is not true.
[32:35] Speaker 01: And then I don't even remember the last thing we got in a fight about.
[32:38] Speaker 01: And I was probably mad at you.
[32:40] Speaker 03: I have no clue, honestly.
[32:41] Speaker 03: Yeah, you definitely were mad at me.
[32:43] Speaker 03: But then you do this thing where I we call it building the case.
[32:47] Speaker 03: You become You call it that.
[32:49] Speaker 03: You become the lead prosecutor of like the Southern District of New York.
[32:55] Speaker 01: Oh my god, the drama.
[32:56] Speaker 01: This is this is what it feels like to you.
[33:00] Speaker 01: This isn't reality necessarily, but you'll stay up all night, you'll be on your computer, building your case.
[33:06] Speaker 01: Oh my god, give you legal pads.
[33:09] Speaker 01: That's what happens.
[33:10] Speaker 01: I just want to be clear.
[33:12] Speaker 01: There is not one note app in my phone that has a case in it.
[33:17] Speaker 01: Okay.
[33:18] Speaker 03: You are the attorney general in our relationship.
[33:21] Speaker 01: I will take that title.
[33:22] Speaker 03: Okay, whatever.
[33:23] Speaker 03: So tell them what you do.
[33:25] Speaker 01: Well, no, it's just so I'll say the one thing and you deny it, or all of a sudden I'm it's turned around to where I'm apologizing to you.
[33:32] Speaker 01: And I'm like, no, this isn't the only time because it also happened here and here and here and here.
[33:38] Speaker 01: And as I'm saying all this stuff, then you're going into that overstimulated mode that we talked about before where you just shut down and you're like, so I'm a piece of shit and I suck at everything and I'm basically worthless.
[33:48] Speaker 01: And what's the point?
[33:50] Speaker 01: Like, what's the point?
[33:51] Speaker 03: You have backup examples for your backup examples.
[33:54] Speaker 03: But the thing is it's useful to like give someone an example of like, here's when you did the thing, but you'll have like 30 examples, and then they'll tie to like other things that I do, different behaviors, and then those behaviors have examples behind them, and it's like it is a web of all the things that I've done wrong.
[34:12] Speaker 01: So this is the difference is that it to you, it feels like I hate you when that happens.
[34:18] Speaker 01: It's like that I just only see you as this horrible person.
[34:22] Speaker 01: Whereas for me, I'm just trying to communicate really clearly.
[34:25] Speaker 01: Like I'm just trying to get my point across and I'm trying to back it up with fact instead of feeling of like, no, this happened because I've kind of I feel like had to do that to survive growing up.
[34:39] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[34:39] Speaker 01: You know?
[34:40] Speaker 01: So I mean, everything.
[34:41] Speaker 01: It always happens.
[34:43] Speaker 03: It's like when you're not believed, then you feel like you need to like document all these examples.
[34:47] Speaker 03: So you're so used to doing that because you're like, I'm not crazy.
[34:50] Speaker 03: These are all the things.
[34:51] Speaker 03: This is all that happens happened.
[34:53] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[34:54] Speaker 03: So I totally respect that.
[34:55] Speaker 01: But it's not because I really, you know, I'm just it's not because I really hate you, or and at that point, I'm even that mad at you over the initial crumbs on the counter or whatever it is.
[35:05] Speaker 01: It's just that feeling of not being believed.
[35:08] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[35:09] Speaker 03: So for me, that's that's my trigger, is like once the case has been built, I am like, you hate me.
[35:17] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[35:17] Speaker 03: And I just doesn't feel good to be on the receiving end.
[35:20] Speaker 01: And something that you'll say to me a lot too is you'll be like, it's just really demotivating.
[35:25] Speaker 01: It's demotivating for me to try when it seems it seems like what's the point?
[35:30] Speaker 01: You know, and we talked about this in the queer ultimatum episode with one of the couples and how it seemed like that was kind of happening, where one of the couples was saying they were trying their hardest, but the other one was like, you don't really try at all.
[35:42] Speaker 01: And I do, especially seeing it in a couple outside of ours, ours, it's easier to understand where it's like, okay, I can understand why it's demotivating, but when you say that to me, I'll be like, it's not my job to motivate you.
[35:57] Speaker 01: You know, that's usually what I'll say.
[35:59] Speaker 03: No, I agree, but I also think it's our job to not demotivate each other.
[36:04] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[36:04] Speaker 03: It is our job to not demotivate the other.
[36:07] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[36:08] Speaker 03: So because you want you want people to be set up for success and like want to thrive in the relationship.
[36:15] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[36:16] Speaker 01: And I'll also say to you, the other thing is the only reason I have this case built, as you say, is because I don't feel like I can share the little things at the time when they happen.
[36:26] Speaker 01: Right.
[36:27] Speaker 01: Because I don't know what your response will be.
[36:29] Speaker 01: If I was able to just say them passing the way that we can now, which is funny and silly, then this wouldn't happen.
[36:36] Speaker 01: Like I wouldn't build the case.
[36:38] Speaker 01: And then your response to that would be like, why can't you just let shit go?
[36:42] Speaker 01: Why does it even have to matter?
[36:43] Speaker 01: And then I'll be like, So you're saying my feelings don't matter?
[36:46] Speaker 03: Because I will say, in general, in the relationship, I can't I'm receiving a lot more feedback than you are.
[36:54] Speaker 03: Stop calling it feedback.
[36:56] Speaker 03: It is what it is.
[36:57] Speaker 03: It's feedback.
[36:58] Speaker 03: I would say, in general, it's probably 10 to 1.
[37:04] Speaker 01: Would you agree with that statement?
[37:06] Speaker 01: I don't know math, so I plead the fifth.
[37:10] Speaker 03: Exactly.
[37:10] Speaker 03: Yesterday we were making some content, and you're like, one of our unspoken rules is you do the math.
[37:15] Speaker 03: So I'm doing the math right now.
[37:16] Speaker 03: And I would say I probably receive feedback probably like 10 times the amount that you receive.
[37:21] Speaker 03: Okay.
[37:21] Speaker 03: That I give to you.
[37:23] Speaker 03: Because I think in general, I'm much more easygoing and like laid back, and things do roll off me a lot easier than you.
[37:31] Speaker 03: You feel the need like you have to say something every time.
[37:35] Speaker 01: But okay, are we including things like the towel next to the clock?
[37:40] Speaker 01: For example, yeah.
[37:41] Speaker 03: Honey, why don't you wait for bootcrumbs?
[37:42] Speaker 03: Honey, you didn't put the towel in there.
[37:44] Speaker 03: Yeah, you didn't think it's like a constant probably 10x of what I say to you.
[37:48] Speaker 01: Because you literally don't see those things.
[37:50] Speaker 01: Like if I did the same thing to you, you wouldn't see you, you don't see the towel next to the closet.
[37:55] Speaker 01: That's why you didn't put it in the closet because you thought next to the closet.
[37:58] Speaker 03: It doesn't exist normal.
[37:59] Speaker 03: I put it near the closet and now it doesn't exist.
[38:02] Speaker 03: I can't see it anymore.
[38:03] Speaker 03: Not invisible.
[38:04] Speaker 01: It's now that's where it belongs.
[38:05] Speaker 01: Yes.
[38:05] Speaker 01: Now all the time.
[38:06] Speaker 01: The towel will be stacked next to the closet, but not in the closet.
[38:10] Speaker 01: So it's that's part of the reason why.
[38:14] Speaker 01: It's just like I notice things more.
[38:16] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[38:16] Speaker 01: Um, but yeah, it's not like a constant feedback of all of these character things.
[38:22] Speaker 01: I would say the majority of it is cleanliness lagging.
[38:26] Speaker 01: And kind of, it's honestly kind of a joke.
[38:28] Speaker 01: I know it is the way that we communicate about it now.
[38:30] Speaker 01: It's very joke.
[38:31] Speaker 01: It is.
[38:38] Speaker 03: And in general, I would say we have very different things of like the things that we value in like when we do fight.
[38:48] Speaker 03: Like for me, I really value feeling appreciated.
[38:53] Speaker 03: Like I want to feel appreciated even if we're fighting, which can be hard sometimes, probably for you to give that to me.
[38:59] Speaker 03: And I um appreciate a softer approach.
[39:04] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[39:04] Speaker 03: Like I want more softness.
[39:06] Speaker 03: And I want you to feel summer house.
[39:10] Speaker 03: Whatever.
[39:11] Speaker 03: You know what?
[39:12] Speaker 03: I knew you were gonna say that.
[39:13] Speaker 03: And anyone who watches that show, whatever.
[39:16] Speaker 03: Whatever.
[39:17] Speaker 03: And I want to feel like seen and valued before I'm like taking this harsh feedback from you.
[39:25] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[39:25] Speaker 01: Feedback, feedback, feedback, whatever.
[39:27] Speaker 01: Feedback, feedback, trigger.
[39:29] Speaker 01: So take a shot immediately triggered.
[39:32] Speaker 03: I would say that's like part of like the learning and growing, getting to know the other person's like for me, those are the things that I really value when we're when you're we're having difficult conversations, like that those things come through.
[39:44] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[39:45] Speaker 03: What about for you?
[39:46] Speaker 01: Well, what I'll say too is that also when you say stuff like that of even just the softness and everything, that word alone is also a trigger for me because I'm like, that's misogyny.
[39:57] Speaker 01: Let women feel things other than softness.
[40:00] Speaker 01: Let me experience the full range of emotions, which is anger.
[40:04] Speaker 01: Like, I am angry right now.
[40:06] Speaker 01: That's why I sound angry.
[40:07] Speaker 01: I shouldn't have to sugarcoat that to make you feel comfortable.
[40:10] Speaker 03: You know, I just don't react well to anger.
[40:13] Speaker 01: I understand.
[40:14] Speaker 03: Because in my family, we didn't show anger.
[40:16] Speaker 03: That wasn't something, that wasn't an emotion that we were allowed to have.
[40:19] Speaker 03: So when I experience somebody who's angry with me, it's very overwhelming for me.
[40:23] Speaker 03: It has nothing to do, in my opinion, with misogyny.
[40:26] Speaker 03: It was just like that's the household that I grew up in, is we were very soft and passive.
[40:30] Speaker 03: And so when somebody comes at me with like full conflict, I'm like, whoa, it's like I need to run.
[40:36] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[40:37] Speaker 03: I need to get out of this situation.
[40:39] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[40:40] Speaker 01: So so yeah, it's just, I mean, and we've said this multiple times where it's a difference of really how we were we were raised and the households that we grew up in.
[40:51] Speaker 01: That's always what it comes back to.
[40:53] Speaker 01: Um, the things that I value, what did I write in the notes?
[40:58] Speaker 03: Like you my brain is valuing me that you're I feel like you're you want to be like an efficient fighter.
[41:03] Speaker 03: So you're like, let me tell you what you did.
[41:06] Speaker 03: Let me just be as direct as possible and just take accountability, apologize, and let's move on.
[41:10] Speaker 03: That's what you want.
[41:11] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[41:12] Speaker 03: You are you want to have like high efficiency fighting.
[41:15] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[41:15] Speaker 01: I'm very just solution-oriented, very, I mean, that's I honestly when I hear straight couples talk about this, I feel like that's usually more the man kind of.
[41:26] Speaker 01: It's like much more masculine, where it's very when you're upset about something, it's like I want to fix it immediately.
[41:33] Speaker 01: It's a yeah, very solution-oriented, and just like, let's just move on.
[41:37] Speaker 01: Okay.
[41:37] Speaker 01: So as soon as you do apologize, or it doesn't even have to be apology, but just even like, yeah, I did that accountability.
[41:44] Speaker 01: I'm like, cool, we're on the same page, we're existing in the same reality, and I get over it super fast.
[41:50] Speaker 03: If I do not accept what you've said, that will it will last forever.
[41:55] Speaker 01: On both ends.
[41:57] Speaker 03: Because you're like, if you can't even see the thing that you did, then like I'm not gonna let this go.
[42:03] Speaker 03: Because there better be careful over that.
[42:07] Speaker 03: Will not be able to learn the lesson if you don't understand what you did.
[42:11] Speaker 03: That's kind of like what you're trying to say.
[42:14] Speaker 01: Well, I think that that makes it sound I have never said anything like that.
[42:19] Speaker 01: I've never said anything like that.
[42:21] Speaker 01: That's the that's what I feel like that's happening.
[42:24] Speaker 03: It's like I feel like you are trying to be like, you need to understand what you did and hear me.
[42:31] Speaker 03: And if you can't acknowledge that, then I'm not gonna let this move on because otherwise you'll it will never be resolved because you don't understand what you mean.
[42:38] Speaker 01: Because you haven't heard me.
[42:39] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[42:39] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[42:39] Speaker 01: It's less about understanding what you did.
[42:41] Speaker 01: It's just like hearing what I've said.
[42:43] Speaker 01: Because there have definitely been times we've resolved without you agreeing, you know, but just acknowledging.
[42:49] Speaker 01: It's just that acknowledgement of like, okay, either I understand why it made you feel that way, but this was the way that I meant it, or we don't always have to agree to resolve.
[42:58] Speaker 01: Um, but yeah, I think for me, an ideal resolution is just accountability, quick, move on.
[43:06] Speaker 01: And if if we do need time in between, then that's totally fine.
[43:11] Speaker 01: So it's like one one thing I think that is really we've gotten a lot better at too is in those moments where we are just kind of missing each other, whether it's that we're syncing up on our periods and so we're both a little bit crazy or you know, whatever is going on, but we're just kind of a little bit snappier and our communication isn't landing, we don't really try to force it anymore.
[43:32] Speaker 01: We're just like, wow, this is just how it is now.
[43:35] Speaker 01: So instead of trying to make it work in those moments, it kind of passes faster, I find, than trying to force it at that time.
[43:44] Speaker 01: Definitely.
[43:46] Speaker 03: And one of the things that I feel like really made our fights harder than they needed to be and got better with time was that for me, it's like I had this abandonment wound of like losing my mom when I was really young.
[44:01] Speaker 03: And that would show up when we were when we would get into fights.
[44:05] Speaker 03: Because for me it was this was more early on in the relationship, like first one to two years, one to two, I would say.
[44:13] Speaker 03: And okay, and it was more just like that feeling of feeling uh insecure in a relationship of like you're mad, therefore you're gonna leave.
[44:22] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[44:23] Speaker 03: It was like my lizard brain would like connect those dots, like you're mad at me, and now you're gonna leave.
[44:28] Speaker 03: And and so for me, it like once we got to that place where we were more secure and I worked through those, you know, issues that I was having, that made things it made conflict a lot easier because I wasn't afraid that you were just gonna like walk out the door.
[44:44] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[44:44] Speaker 01: And it was kind of twofold.
[44:46] Speaker 01: It was partially that abandonment, which also it was from the mother side, you know, which I think then it's like I'm also a feminine.
[44:54] Speaker 01: I don't know, for some reason to me it kind of felt more pronounced.
[44:57] Speaker 01: The same way that it's like straight girls, if they have daddy issues, if their dad left them, your mom obviously didn't willingly leave you, she passed away when you were super young.
[45:06] Speaker 01: So it's it's different, but your brain doesn't know the difference sometimes, you know, the way that it can process it.
[45:13] Speaker 01: And so it was partially that, but it was also partially that perfectionism of like, if I'm not perfect, then you'll love me less and then leave me.
[45:24] Speaker 01: And I'm like, I don't expect you to be perfect, you know?
[45:28] Speaker 01: It's like I so it was it was partially me, you getting to the point of understanding I can get super fucking mad at you, but that doesn't mean I'm leaving.
[45:37] Speaker 01: Yeah, those two things are actually not connected.
[45:40] Speaker 03: No, and I would say that it was like was ayahuasca really helped to resolve that wound and just therapy as well, like my own individual therapy, yeah.
[45:50] Speaker 03: And then obviously time with you and us working through conflict and like building a more secure attachment style.
[45:57] Speaker 01: Yeah, because so when we first got together, you were more kind of anxious avoidant.
[46:02] Speaker 01: That anxious showed up with the abandonment wound, and then the avoidant was the avoidant of conflict.
[46:08] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[46:08] Speaker 01: So it was a fun mix.
[46:10] Speaker 03: We had the really exciting blend.
[46:12] Speaker 01: And then I was more avoidant, where and not super avoidant, I would say when when we got together, it only showed up kind of like pretty sparingly.
[46:22] Speaker 01: And it wasn't as much avoidant about conflict, it was just more like I literally flee the space where we had gotten in this really bad fight.
[46:29] Speaker 01: We had been together for about a year, and we were staying at a hotel somewhere, and my first response was, I'm I'm gonna go book another room.
[46:38] Speaker 01: And then I noticed it.
[46:39] Speaker 01: I was like, oh, this is the avoid.
[46:41] Speaker 01: I had just learned about attachment style.
[46:43] Speaker 01: This is like five years ago or something.
[46:44] Speaker 01: I just learned about it and I was like, oh my God, I think this is the thing.
[46:48] Speaker 01: I think I'm doing the thing.
[46:49] Speaker 01: So it was really cool because it was just like having the awareness of it kind of stopped me in my tracks and was like, no, don't do the thing that you've always done.
[46:58] Speaker 01: And it was so fucking uncomfortable staying there.
[47:02] Speaker 01: It was like, I didn't want to be around you.
[47:04] Speaker 01: I didn't, and especially in a hotel, you're trapped in this space together.
[47:08] Speaker 01: But it was really I felt like that moment kind of like broke my avoidant attachment style.
[47:14] Speaker 01: It did.
[47:15] Speaker 01: And then over the years with your therapy and the you know, diagnosis and everything, you we have a super secure attachment style now.
[47:24] Speaker 01: But that that was how it started.
[47:26] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[47:26] Speaker 03: Yeah, I would say like all those things that you just mentioned.
[47:29] Speaker 03: It's like getting to a place of just a more steadiness in my emotional, like less volatility, you know, through the therapy, through ayahuasca, through my medication, yeah, regulating my hormones, all those kind of things.
[47:45] Speaker 03: That is what I feel like made the biggest shift in our ability to navigate conflict by far.
[47:51] Speaker 03: I feel like I was the problem for the first three years.
[47:54] Speaker 01: I'm glad we have this on record.
[47:56] Speaker 01: I really was.
[47:57] Speaker 03: I do admit it.
[47:58] Speaker 03: I will say, I say it to my friends as well.
[48:00] Speaker 03: It's like, yeah, I just I I felt like unable to fully regulate my emotions.
[48:06] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[48:07] Speaker 01: It was very unregulated.
[48:09] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[48:09] Speaker 01: And yeah, so now, I mean, things that we've done that have helped are we mentioned attachment styles.
[48:16] Speaker 01: I would say for sure learning your attachment style, your partner's attachment style.
[48:21] Speaker 01: Cause same thing as learning anything about yourself or your partner just helps you to understand yourself and them better.
[48:28] Speaker 01: And then how to navigate the situations.
[48:30] Speaker 01: And for me, it's like having that identification is helpful because when I'm doing the thing, I'm like, oh, I now know why I'm doing that thing.
[48:38] Speaker 01: And I kind of have a name for it, and then also tools to how to not do that.
[48:43] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[48:44] Speaker 01: So attachment style, love languages is obviously huge.
[48:47] Speaker 01: That's a big one.
[48:48] Speaker 01: And we'll talk about the I think we could do a whole episode on love language.
[48:52] Speaker 03: It's a big one because for me, it's like after we have conflict, I need a hug.
[48:57] Speaker 01: It's a real thing.
[48:58] Speaker 01: I I need a hug.
[48:59] Speaker 01: And sometimes that is the last thing in the world I want to give you.
[49:04] Speaker 03: But we've we've kind of come up with like a code.
[49:06] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[49:07] Speaker 03: For like when I really need a hug, even if you don't want to, then it's like you will still give me a hug.
[49:12] Speaker 01: SOS, I need this hug.
[49:14] Speaker 01: It's not just a frivolous, I need a hug, right?
[49:18] Speaker 01: You know, it's like a serious, okay, then you always have that for me.
[49:21] Speaker 01: But you can't just ask for it every day.
[49:23] Speaker 01: No, it's a very specific hug.
[49:25] Speaker 01: I mean, I force you to hug me every day.
[49:28] Speaker 03: It's not true.
[49:29] Speaker 03: I do.
[49:30] Speaker 03: I just walk up to you and I'm just like, come here.
[49:33] Speaker 01: You get a forced hug.
[49:34] Speaker 01: So love languages, and then I think I mean, okay, communication, duh, but that can mean so many different things.
[49:41] Speaker 01: It's just learning how to communicate effectively and not bottling things up, but then also being able to manage the reactions when you are getting, as you call, a lot of feedback.
[49:53] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[49:53] Speaker 03: But I feel like you have tips and tricks of like basically how you figured out how to navigate me.
[49:57] Speaker 01: Oh, yeah.
[49:58] Speaker 01: Like if you feel like I'm not subtle.
[50:00] Speaker 03: If you feel like I'm not listening, you'll be like, honey, write this down.
[50:04] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[50:04] Speaker 03: Honey, get off your phone.
[50:05] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[50:06] Speaker 01: Honey.
[50:06] Speaker 01: So it's like instead of if I'm saying something important and I know there's a high likelihood that you are not listening because I could tell that you're on your phone, you're distracted, whatever.
[50:15] Speaker 01: I can just tell by whatever your body language is, if you're really listening or not, instead of still saying it to you and knowing that, okay, she's probably not going to hear me, and then I'm probably going to get mad about this later when she doesn't remember, then I'll ask for what I need in that moment.
[50:30] Speaker 01: I'll be like, I want to say something really important.
[50:32] Speaker 01: Can you listen?
[50:32] Speaker 01: And you put the phone down and you listen, and that helps, you know?
[50:37] Speaker 01: Or if it's something like feeding the dog, you know, something that's more of a task, then I'm like, please write it down or put an alert on your calendar.
[50:45] Speaker 01: So we like have these systems to set you up for success.
[50:48] Speaker 03: That's what we call it.
[50:49] Speaker 03: Because we want us both to thrive in the relationship.
[50:52] Speaker 01: Because it's like instead of testing that person, like, oh, I'm gonna ask them and then see if they do it.
[50:57] Speaker 01: That's you don't want that mentality.
[50:58] Speaker 01: No, you don't want to plant this trap for them to fall into so that you can get mad.
[51:05] Speaker 01: So we have those little systems that helped.
[51:07] Speaker 01: And I also think in general, I do brush things off more easily.
[51:11] Speaker 03: You definitely do.
[51:12] Speaker 03: And you've gotten better at that.
[51:13] Speaker 01: And just the way that we talk about it, it's it is jokey and funny.
[51:17] Speaker 01: Like I just almost started crying, I was laughing so hard about the towels in the closet.
[51:22] Speaker 03: Yeah, I think I think the little things have become that used to annoy us, like become jokes now.
[51:27] Speaker 03: Like they're funny to us, and it's just like, and then we just make fun of each other for it.
[51:32] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[51:33] Speaker 03: And so it's it, it's I don't know.
[51:34] Speaker 03: It doesn't feel as heavy.
[51:36] Speaker 03: No, and it's just like become a thing in our relationship.
[51:38] Speaker 03: It's like part of the comedy of our relationship is just like ripping on each other for like the silly quirks that we have.
[51:44] Speaker 01: Yeah, yeah.
[51:45] Speaker 01: And it's not in a way that's mean and putting that again, there's no name calling or anything.
[51:50] Speaker 01: It's just like, oh, let me guess.
[51:52] Speaker 01: Last night you had Euro for dinner because I see it all over the counter.
[51:55] Speaker 01: Cool.
[51:56] Speaker 01: Whatever.
[51:58] Speaker 00: Whatever.
[51:59] Speaker 00: Okay.
[52:00] Speaker 00: Yeah.
[52:01] Speaker 00: Did we do good?
[52:02] Speaker 00: I think we did good.
[52:03] Speaker 00: We didn't get in a fight.
[52:04] Speaker 00: We didn't.
[52:06] Speaker 03: Yay! I think we, you know, one of the things that we you know the advice that people say of like never go to bed angry.
[52:16] Speaker 00: Yeah.
[52:17] Speaker 03: We go to bed angry, like not all not all the time.
[52:20] Speaker 03: Yeah, like what every night we're picking.
[52:23] Speaker 03: But like, we do not follow that rule.
[52:25] Speaker 01: And well, no, like we said, we sleep separately sometimes if we feel like we need to.
[52:29] Speaker 03: We really just need space to like process.
[52:32] Speaker 03: And sometimes it's okay to be mad at your partner and go to sleep.
[52:35] Speaker 03: It's okay.
[52:36] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[52:36] Speaker 03: Like it doesn't, you don't need to stay up till three in the morning arguing when you're getting nowhere.
[52:41] Speaker 01: You can be like, Sometimes it makes it worse because now you're tired.
[52:44] Speaker 03: It makes it worse every time.
[52:45] Speaker 03: Now I'm tired and I have to work the next day and I'm exhausted, and now I'm gonna have to talk to you when I get off of work, and I'm yeah, I just want to go to sleep.
[52:51] Speaker 01: Yeah, yeah.
[52:52] Speaker 03: So, like, let each other sleep.
[52:54] Speaker 03: You know how good like much better you normally feel in the morning.
[52:57] Speaker 01: You're not sleeping pissed, okay?
[53:00] Speaker 03: It's okay.
[53:00] Speaker 03: The world's not gonna end, you know?
[53:02] Speaker 03: It's fine.
[53:02] Speaker 01: Yeah, it's like, of course, the idea that it's trying to say let things go more easily.
[53:07] Speaker 01: You never know about tomorrow.
[53:08] Speaker 01: Like, I get it.
[53:09] Speaker 01: I get the Pinterest quotes of it all, but it's not, oh, you don't have to take it to heart every time.
[53:15] Speaker 03: Yeah, definitely.
[53:17] Speaker 03: And so I don't know.
[53:18] Speaker 03: I think, yeah, we've come a long way.
[53:20] Speaker 03: We've come a long way in the six years we've been together, our fights don't last nearly as long as they used to.
[53:25] Speaker 01: Let's check in in a year after we have born and see.
[53:28] Speaker 03: They really don't go past, I don't know, a few hours at this point.
[53:31] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[53:31] Speaker 03: Like a one day maximum is like the extent of our fighting.
[53:35] Speaker 01: Yeah.
[53:36] Speaker 01: Which is the biggest relief of all because the longer it goes on when you're uncomfortable in your own house, oh, such a it is so.
[53:42] Speaker 01: And you work from home.
[53:44] Speaker 03: So it's, I mean, it's it's unavoidable to like see the person in your house, you're working on it.
[53:49] Speaker 03: And it just wears on you so much.
[53:51] Speaker 01: It's exhausting.
[53:52] Speaker 01: So it's having that resolution faster that makes all the difference.
[53:57] Speaker 01: Yeah, it makes a huge difference.
[53:59] Speaker 03: So yeah, I think that's that's what we've learned so far.
[54:03] Speaker 01: And like I said, we will check in when we have a newborn and see how we're doing with all these rules and if we're keeping up with them.
[54:10] Speaker 03: Yeah, I'm sure you're gonna live life for your name when we have an infant.
[54:13] Speaker 01: Oh, yeah.
[54:14] Speaker 03: Yeah, so anyways.
[54:17] Speaker 01: Who's the problem?
[54:18] Speaker 03: Should you want me to go first?
[54:21] Speaker 01: Sure.
[54:22] Speaker 03: Okay.
[54:22] Speaker 03: So given that, you know, today's about us fighting.
[54:27] Speaker 03: Yes, I thought I'd pick, you know, pick Michaela versus Alex situation.
[54:32] Speaker 03: Why not?
[54:33] Speaker 03: Okay, so we have a nice size bathroom.
[54:38] Speaker 03: One of our requirements in choosing a house was having a two sinks in the master bathroom because we've already gotten to the point where you guys understand that like my level of cleanliness doesn't work for her, so we need to have two sinks.
[54:53] Speaker 01: Wait, by the way, I need to take I almost did this the other day of just taking photos of two different sides of the sinks of the closets for people to guess who is who.
[55:02] Speaker 03: Well, my it would be very obvious.
[55:04] Speaker 03: But your rule for the bathroom counter is a rule.
[55:12] Speaker 03: Okay.
[55:13] Speaker 03: Preference.
[55:14] Speaker 03: The way that I like to have my side of the bathroom counter is I like to have my electric toothbrush out, obviously with my soap dispenser.
[55:22] Speaker 03: But like I would like to have other, a couple of other critical items, like a couple of, you know, my skincare routine items, my mouthwash.
[55:30] Speaker 03: Not a lot of things, but I would like some things on the counter.
[55:33] Speaker 03: But if I leave anything on the counter beyond the soap dispenser and my electric toothbrush, it will end up in a drawer somewhere, and then I will not be able to find it.
[55:42] Speaker 03: Like I did not allow to have anything besides my electric toothbrush and the soap dispenser on the countertop, or it will disappear because you do not allow things to exist on the kitchen, on the bathroom countertop.
[55:55] Speaker 03: Okay, first of all, we only have one drawer.
[55:57] Speaker 01: So it always ends up in the same room.
[55:59] Speaker 03: We have cabinets and we have drawers.
[56:02] Speaker 01: It always ends up in the drawer.
[56:03] Speaker 01: No, we starts with one thing.
[56:06] Speaker 03: We used to be allowed to have the mouthwash on the countertop, and now you don't allow that anymore.
[56:11] Speaker 03: That just changed in the last two weeks.
[56:12] Speaker 03: Okay.
[56:13] Speaker 03: So am I the crazy person who just like a couple of critical items on my side of the bathroom countertop.
[56:20] Speaker 01: I have to admit it looks so much better without the mouthwash.
[56:23] Speaker 01: It's just the plastic.
[56:25] Speaker 03: Is Kayla right because she cares about our bathroom countertop aesthetic?
[56:28] Speaker 03: It's not the aesthetic minimalism.
[56:30] Speaker 01: It has nothing to do with aesthetic for photos.
[56:32] Speaker 01: It's my own mental clarity where it's like, I don't want to look at that.
[56:37] Speaker 03: I'm just waiting for the day when my toothbrush is no longer allowed to live on the countertop because it's going to happen.
[56:43] Speaker 03: Soap dispenser only.
[56:45] Speaker 01: Okay, it might.
[56:46] Speaker 01: It might.
[56:50] Speaker 03: Who's the problem?
[56:51] Speaker 01: So I was also going to do a Kayla v.
[56:54] Speaker 01: Alex problem, but I decided not to since this whole episode was about fighting, and I saw that you chose one.
[57:00] Speaker 01: So instead, we're taking a hard turn.
[57:02] Speaker 01: And mine who's the problem has to do with true crime people.
[57:06] Speaker 01: Okay.
[57:07] Speaker 01: Who's the problem?
[57:08] Speaker 01: The people who are obsessed with true crime, which in my opinion is very dark and I don't understand, especially because most of the people listening to it, if I understand correctly, are women, which I'm just like, how how are you not terrified to go to sleep at night?
[57:26] Speaker 01: I it's I don't understand.
[57:28] Speaker 01: I can barely watch, I couldn't watch the Dallas Cowboys documentary thing without getting scared because all of a sudden one of the girls had a stalker and I had to turn it off and I couldn't sleep the rest of the night.
[57:39] Speaker 01: Okay.
[57:40] Speaker 01: So I understand I'm sensitive, but still, I don't understand.
[57:44] Speaker 01: People are like, it's just so soothing to listen to this serial killer podcast while I go to sleep.
[57:49] Speaker 01: Like, I don't understand.
[57:50] Speaker 01: So are they the problem or are the people putting it out the problem?
[57:54] Speaker 01: Because I also have to like, what was the one, the Dahmer one that came out?
[57:58] Speaker 01: And and even people who liked that stuff said it was blue dark, the Jeffrey Dahmer one on everyone.
[58:03] Speaker 01: And it's like, who decides to make this stuff act in this stuff?
[58:08] Speaker 01: But I don't, it's just, I don't know.
[58:11] Speaker 01: I don't get it.
[58:12] Speaker 01: Who do you think the problem is?
[58:15] Speaker 03: Well, I really like true crime.
[58:17] Speaker 03: So I might be the problem.
[58:19] Speaker 03: But I I don't I don't think it is a problem.
[58:22] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[58:24] Speaker 03: Your eyes.
[58:26] Speaker 01: What?
[58:26] Speaker 01: I don't think that there's a problem.
[58:28] Speaker 01: I I think that there's a problem, but we are glorifying these heinous.
[58:33] Speaker 03: It's not glorifying.
[58:34] Speaker 03: It's like for me, I like the mystery of it.
[58:38] Speaker 03: And like, you know, when that that podcast serial came out was like the mystery, like, did he really do it?
[58:44] Speaker 03: Did he not do it?
[58:45] Speaker 03: I I'm less interested in like the Jeffrey Dahmer serial killers of it all, because that just really scares me.
[58:52] Speaker 03: I feel scared, but I like the mystery of like, ooh, you know, being the sleuth, like, can I figure it out?
[58:58] Speaker 03: You know.
[58:58] Speaker 01: Okay, well, you guys can decide who the problem is: the people consuming the content or the people making it.
[59:04] Speaker 03: Yeah.
[59:06] Speaker 01: Go vote on our socials, chime in the comments on Spotify, YouTube, all the things.
[59:11] Speaker 01: We love you guys.
[59:12] Speaker 01: We love you.
[59:13] Speaker 01: And we will see you.
[59:13] Speaker 01: We'll see you soon next week.
[59:15] Speaker 01: Thank you so much for listening to the show.
[59:21] Speaker 01: We're so happy to have you here.
[59:23] Speaker 01: Make sure to subscribe, rate, and review wherever you're listening to podcasts.
[59:28] Speaker 01: We love getting commentary from you on Spotify and on YouTube.
[59:32] Speaker 01: And as always, if you love this episode or any of our episodes, make sure to share it with a friend or somebody who will appreciate the conversation.
[59:39] Speaker 03: And make sure to follow us on all their socials at WivesNot SistersPod on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
[59:44] Speaker 03: Thanks, guys.
[59:45] Speaker 03: See you next week.

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