# Couples Therapy: S5 Ep. 9 w/Jenn

An episode of [Tayne Talks: A Reality TV Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1522401890), 22 Jul 2026, 1 h 10 min.

Audio: https://pdst.fm/e/pscrb.fm/rss/p/audio3.redcircle.com/episodes/bbf9f4ef-8c13-444c-83ff-7077df931905/stream.mp3

We have come to the end of the season! Orna wraps up all her sessions with the couples and we still see some surprising endings. Get bonus episodes on Patreon on documentaries, MAFS content and reality shows like Sister Wives and 90 Day Fiance. Different levels are available - a tier to listen to episodes ad-free ($3), a tier for bonus episodes ($5) and another to listen ad-free, bonus episodes and get regular episodes early ($10) Join the conversation in the Patreon Community Chat and on Instagram, Twitter, Bluesky and Threads - @taynetalks Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

## Transcript

[0:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Taint Talks.
[0:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I am your host, Tain.
[0:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Here for the final episode of Couples Therapy season by we made it, y'all.
[0:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Here with me, as always, is Jen.
[0:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Hi, Jen, how are you?
[0:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So many things are wrapping up, Tain.
[0:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is our, my husband and I's last day in Bali.
[0:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We leaped tomorrow for Australia.
[0:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And this is the last episode of Couples Therapy.
[0:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: quietly and happily coming to an end.
[0:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: These are all happy endings, actually.
[0:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Hey, you.
[0:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Great.
[0:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You.
[0:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's it.
[0:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's it.
[0:48] \[UNKNOWN\]: That's it.
[0:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's it.
[0:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's it.
[0:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Sorry.
[0:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Had to fit your pay when there's something out of the building.
[0:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How did you feel about this finale?
[1:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like what your overall quick summary, I mean, we're going to go through it.
[1:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But what was your overall thoughts about the finale?
[1:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Um, shook.
[1:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I think I went through the whole range of emotions.
[1:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I had to pick one word.
[1:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It would be shook, um, but then happily shook in some ways and not happily shook in other ways.
[1:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What about you?
[1:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, interesting.
[1:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Um, I would say rushed.
[1:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Um, we've complained about this way.
[1:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I felt like there was a lot of gaps through the season.
[1:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And of course, I'm expecting things to wrap up because it is the final episode, but it was just, huh.
[1:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, I mean, sure was, you know, how I felt about it, like you could tell it was a finale, but it was just like, okay, I mean, I guess this is it.
[1:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So yeah, but one thing different that they did was they started with Marjorie and Jason, but they really weren't the first couple that they started with.
[1:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I don't I guess I didn't understand why they didn't put this part during their segment.
[1:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But they started the episodes with Jason saying when I was younger, I was a bad kid, I had a bunch of diagnosis, like I went to so many therapists and he sought because they gave me so many drugs.
[2:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And his mom even found like a world-renowned guy.
[2:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He actually says his name, but showtime is like, now today, Satan, you're not going to sue us and they bliped it out.
[2:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They flipped it out, but honor is like, oh, I know that name, like, probably in their world, their therapy world and stuff.
[2:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And Jason was like, he got that guy so pissed that the guy grabbed him by the shirt, dragged him out, and his mother was staying in the hallway and saw him.
[2:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I got to add that when Jason is telling us the story, his voice is raised, his voice is agitated.
[2:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I know Jason sounds agitated all the time.
[2:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But this was an octave higher, would you say?
[2:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It was, it was certainly, it was kind of like bright.
[2:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like you was so happy, the way I feel about Chris being so happy to tell his story, like it was kind of real happy to tell this story, and I don't, I don't, I think he clocked that I'm not supposed to be happy, but I'm happy and I can't stop myself.
[3:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Um, and but you are putting this at the beginning felt like if you've ever watched those videos where somebody's like, all right, this is a terrible thing that happened.
[3:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So stay to the end.
[3:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If felt like that, like they were trying to bait us into watching the whole episode, which is like, I'm already here.
[3:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So that was unnecessary.
[3:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, but that's the thing.
[3:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He makes no sense because we wouldn't know anyways, but I get what you're saying.
[3:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, okay, look up for their part, but they came second anyway.
[3:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So it was just very odd, especially because it was a huge connection to what their story was going to be, you know, so I don't know.
[3:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But to your point, you kept saying, I won.
[3:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I won that interaction.
[3:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But also, I'm like, who the heck is this guy?
[3:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If your patient can drag you out your character, or maybe it is your character, for you to grab a guy by his shirt and drag him out, maybe he shouldn't be a therapist.
[4:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Hey, yeah, but I mean if somebody I feel like Jason that was his intention like he went in there to say how far can I push this guy because I'm going there to prove that oh, your world will now and I'm going to prove that I could I could get you out of your character so he probably said and did some wild crazy shit that if this guy has world renowned people probably approach him.
[4:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So gingerly and gently because he's world renowned, it's kind of what I imagine Beyonce's world is like and so to have somebody go completely the opposite and that that guy was not prepared for that so no he shouldn't be at a place where it sounds like Jason was a child at the time can get you at your character, but also if you're challenged.
[4:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: and you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not.
[4:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Then you walk out.
[4:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying that guy handled that properly, but I'm sure Jason did some shit to get to the guy to that one.
[4:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, so Anna says like in couples therapy, nothing is what it seems and there are all these ways we can project on to people that are based on nothing but our own fantasies and as you get to know them, the picture changes.
[5:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Much of it is not unusual, but when a couple's treatment is progressing really well, it's not unusual for couples to surprise her with suddenly twing with the idea of maybe breaking up suddenly there's a feeling of do we really still want this.
[5:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think it's important for her not to rush in.
[5:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is Orna talking, so speaking in her tense.
[5:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's important for her not to rush in and try to influence the need to experience that as their own choice.
[5:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So this was also odd because they're showing us Jason, right?
[5:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And being one and interactions.
[5:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then Orna switches completely like, oh, couples want to break up and blah, blah, blah, because it's a segue to Chris and Sienna.
[5:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm like,
[5:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We're wrapping up, don't confuse us like we don't need all this gimmicks.
[5:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We're here already, so anyways, this was a segue to Chris and see it and then we just move on to them.
[5:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So Chris says he was spinning after the last session and he woke up really early staring at the back of her head and just thinking what if she still has that feeling of I don't want to be with you.
[6:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I was like, yeah, I said I was just wondering I could just ask her.
[6:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Good job.
[6:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's like, oh, that's just human beings.
[6:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's also a lot of things.
[6:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Is it a resumption?
[6:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Wearing, just flat out, ask, you know?
[6:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Right.
[6:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So he asked her, and she said, no, I don't want to separate.
[6:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't have a need to do that.
[6:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I mean, saying this all season, the gaps because it's always unfortunate that we don't get to see what the turning point is.
[6:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is the second couple where there has been a change of mind and we're just like, okay, they're pivoting.
[6:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So we pivot too.
[6:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Right.
[6:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Right.
[6:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: how do you go from what if my life is great without you to oh my god no like oh my god what I would never leave you what is that and I and that was the and they got me because Orna started talking about you know she's not trying to influence break up and last week Sienna got to the point where she was like what if I got out of this I'm done what if I left this relationship so I thought this was a lead in to them being broken up so when they came in all
[7:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, we should, that shame on us.
[7:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We saw that with Jay and Nessa.
[7:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Slow, we should have known, you know?
[7:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We should have known, we should have known.
[7:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So yeah, so that's the thing.
[7:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that's one of my critiques of the season is it's just hard to be invested or to know what is happening because there's so many shifts in turns that it feels like we're missing something and it's like, what is just a pivot?
[7:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's at like, she had moments that, you know, she's, she's, she's a justing, she being Sienna, she's adjusting to even demanding anything from anyone, because part of what we saw from last week is, it looks like Sienna has had an awakening.
[8:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, instead of being a people pleaser, instead of buttling stuff, instead of being like, choose Jirling, she's now, you know, being into hers.
[8:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Did I say that?
[8:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Did I say that?
[8:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Did I say that?
[8:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Did I say that?
[8:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Sorry, not, but so it's just like she's getting used to that and like this week she had moments where she was just like, I'm so mad at you, like I'm so fucking mad at you, the Christmas dinner curse a lot, you know, I realized.
[8:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it's like before she would just be like so fucking terrified and she would just let it pass.
[8:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And
[8:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Chris is like, I prefer this.
[8:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, yes, it terrifies me when she does that, but I don't care if she feels it.
[8:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I prefer that first of her holding it in.
[8:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The only thing I don't want is I don't want it directed at me because, but now because I have the tools and all of that, I'm like, okay, let's work with it.
[8:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, what are you feeling, how do you feel it, and what can we do with those feelings?
[8:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I know you don't care for Chris, but what do you think of that?
[9:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I, I don't know when it changed and I don't know we want to know when things change and I can't tell you when it changed probably two episodes ago.
[9:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When he finally gave her the space to be her and he was being supportive and he didn't step up and make her situation about him is when I saw him on Chris.
[9:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So redemption arc achieved for Chris.
[9:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: is able to be a partner to her now.
[9:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I still don't forgive him for cheating on her.
[9:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But it's not my husband, so I'm she forgives him.
[9:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If she likes it, I love it.
[9:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But I think they now have this space where they seem to be more open with each other.
[9:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And they seem to be more authentic and who they are, which is good.
[9:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Wow, the couples are in the only one pivoting right here and Taint Talks guys, Jan is pivoting too, except we know her turning point or we see it now she explained you know that part.
[10:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, so she says it's almost like honestly a physical softness that lives within him.
[10:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Now like before like, you know, you can see the shock the shock eyes the 10's body the redness and then they said the sphincter and I'm like, where are you going with this?
[10:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But they just like they just like to use words that are so dramatic like if you can just say
[10:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Hey, he looked a little tense.
[10:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They're going to go with spinkler.
[10:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like, I don't know why they need to pick the most dramatic words that they can find in the describe situation.
[10:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So in addition to all the cursing, at they just need to, they just like being shocking, which is why they're probably a perfect fit for each other.
[10:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah.
[10:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So yeah, I'm like, where are we going with this with the mention of Svinker, but I think they said his asshole used to be so tight.
[10:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, guys, when you are fighting, do you take a break to be like, bend over and let me see how tight your asshole like,
[11:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: what it probably do.
[11:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They just went so dramatic.
[11:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But you see me so tired, they were like, okay, maybe not the spincter, just the cheeks that she would actually stand there and then pat his butt and they were like, oh, it's like tight.
[11:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But now she's like she'll pat it and it's like, oh, yes, like a normal touch.
[11:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, what, what are we doing here, guys?
[11:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But let's go with it.
[11:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So he says he thinks his ass has been clenched since he was four or
[11:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, he's a writer, right?
[11:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They should just write their own Broadway play and just get all this dramatic energy.
[11:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm saying, like, and with his painter clenched when he was cuddling these younger girls with a big big play.
[11:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Hey, I got that.
[11:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I got that.
[11:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'd be asking for a friend, asking for a friend.
[11:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she said, like, she thinks, like, it's like the forgiveness aspect that she likes.
[11:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I guess they took a turn on that.
[12:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That the pain actually does lessen.
[12:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: but she doesn't think she's ever had to forgive anyone so this feels really new to her.
[12:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she feels herself like, even in that forgiveness, thinking like, am I doing it right?
[12:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, is there a way that someone forgives?
[12:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, she just has the need to do it the right way because if she does it the right way, because it will work.
[12:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I think that's the people pleasing in her to make sure, like, oh, it's just one of those.
[12:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, just in my homework, I'm an A student, like, you know, kind of stuff that even in the stuff where she and,
[12:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: do the crime.
[12:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You have the upper hand.
[12:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I guess this is the power owner has been talking about and she's still critiquing herself wondering if she's forgiving right.
[12:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is a lot of pressure.
[12:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But and then I don't know.
[12:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I just it's stopped me because I was like, but didn't she talk about forgiving her mom?
[12:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like, the she not actually not forgiven her mom?
[12:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like, is it true at the first time?
[12:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm like, what you had all that stuff going on with your mom?
[13:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know.
[13:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, that's a good point, but I would say like even when she talked about her mom, it seemed like it was during her choose joy.
[13:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I'm not going to process it because if I process it, I'm going to be mad.
[13:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I'm just going to accept her for what she is and it is what he dashes my mom and this is our relationship and so be it.
[13:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So kind of like what she was doing with Chris, not processing it, and she dimming herself.
[13:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I do think she suffers from the same thing as Marge, and that guy from last season, who just didn't want to speak negatively about their parent, where it's like, I signed up for this, and I don't want to drag them.
[13:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But if she's in her feeling things era,
[13:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Eventually, like Orna said, you can't repress things because they'll come to the surface eventually.
[13:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So to answer your question, I don't think she forgave her mom.
[13:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think she has, there's no capacity.
[13:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Let me do it with Chris first.
[13:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's my immediate family and then the mom stuff is coming over.
[14:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, sure.
[14:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay.
[14:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she says like you know how people say love is a verb.
[14:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I feel like for giving or forgiveness is a verb.
[14:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like it's something I'm gonna have to do every day and also the forgiveness involves for giving herself for 13 years of making herself feel small to fit Chris.
[14:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she does say, I like forgiving you.
[14:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It feels good.
[14:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I think they're both very, they're in this playful phase right now, and so that's what it feels like it feels like we're in this giddy parts where, I don't know, we found each other again and we'll get there, but it's just they're in that like new phase where everything they do is cute and I'm going to touch your butt and all of that.
[14:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah.
[14:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Good for that.
[14:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Good for that.
[14:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I agree.
[14:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's kind of like what you do a borrowing you all.
[14:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So this is their renewal honeymoon phase.
[15:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's always the kiss of death on a housewife show.
[15:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, it is.
[15:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But just for that sake, like if it's like your starting refresh and this is the honeymoon phase of that.
[15:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So whether it's going to last, we don't know.
[15:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But that's the phase that they're in right now.
[15:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So.
[15:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: On a says, Chris, I'm going to go back to you with the tools that you already know like how are you feeling like with your feelings that they catching up with you and hope that you're paying attention to these new feelings that you know, see in our has and he says like he caught those early, but he knows what he's feeling and now he also knows that what he's feeling he's not a social path like he knows like, okay, what is it that I'm feeling right now.
[15:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he knows that he's not being pushed away that when the feelings come back, they're just going to come back when it comes.
[15:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I guess in relation to his mom, was what she was talking about.
[15:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: in that regard.
[15:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So he says, but when he comes out, he just makes room for it to come.
[16:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he just says that he wants to tell Sienna that it was really wonderful to feel her full presence when she got mad.
[16:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, it's Orna said that.
[16:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Orna says like, you know, it was great for her to see her full presence, which is true, because we talked about it that at some point, it felt like she wasn't showing her full self, but she got to be in the full spectrum of her feelings and was not taking any more.
[16:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, so we got to see her whatever the opposite of disassociated it is.
[16:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Disassociated, disassociating in her relationship and therapy with her feeling.
[16:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So yeah, I think this and this whole episode is at least with Chris and Sienna is good.
[16:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because I feel like we got to we get to see the progress.
[16:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And we have no idea how many months long this is.
[16:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But and and also knowing that there's a finite
[16:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: faster if you know like oh we have to get there in two months, three months, four months, whatever and so it's good that they were able to get there even though we didn't get to see the full spectrum of it.
[17:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, so honestly it's been really lovely working with them and she just wants to mark that Sienna for example, allowing herself to feel more anger, my put Chris in a difficult spot considering his mom so she just wants to mark that so he can think about that.
[17:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And Chris is like, oh yeah, I marked that right away that he knows that she's his safe place.
[17:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he just needs to kind of rehearse it and get familiar with it.
[17:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And Sienna thinks like they're focusing more on the present.
[17:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That the only thing is that even though she's feeling his anger, she does need to have an outlet.
[17:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And maybe like kickbox in and then Chris is like bring Tybo back.
[17:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, Oh my God, don't ages.
[17:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So people are like, Ty Boe, what is that?
[17:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's not out to Billy Boex.
[18:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Google it.
[18:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: T-A-E-B-O, I think.
[18:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The video's in college.
[18:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Honestly, it's right.
[18:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That is true, but you're still thinking that the outlet needs to be somewhere else.
[18:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And not that it shouldn't, but what about between the two of you?
[18:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she's not sure about that, but they said that's something that they could work on.
[18:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, they also want to point out that even with the being present, with the big feelings that she's also, I think Chris is saying this, that she's also kind and logical, which is very different, you know, from his mother.
[18:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, they can book triad as she's, you know, getting all this big feelings.
[18:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And,
[18:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He says that he thinks that that's one of the things that threw him off about his mom is that his mom was all emotion and nothing else.
[18:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that's not the case with Sienna.
[18:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So he feels really good about them.
[18:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it is interesting because I don't think I thought that there was a connection to his mother, but I guess the common denominator is the big feelings, but he seems to have big feelings.
[19:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: we can't see it because he's not in one of the dead shark eyes situation, but I don't know if one I didn't say it, I don't know that I would have connected it to his mother.
[19:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I think I would, I see the connection in terms of his reaction to it.
[19:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I don't know, his reaction to Sienna comes from his feelings with his mother, but I don't see Sienna representing his mother.
[19:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But yeah.
[19:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: For me, it came to like you're reacting to her as if she's going to behave like your mother.
[19:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's the same thing that we both did in like last week when Orna said to Sienna, like cheating is not rape, like I guess you're trying to make that apology of Sienna is not your mother.
[19:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, okay, so they say this has been like a second chance.
[20:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It feels like we're getting married again.
[20:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It feels like we're saying, okay, here we go.
[20:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it's crazy because they are about to start a new right now.
[20:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that was it.
[20:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And we see them eating ice cream on a stube.
[20:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And this is the second time we're seeing them eat because previously we saw them eating tacos or something at the truck.
[20:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And owner tells us an a voiceover that they came in a real crisis, not sure if they're going to make it.
[20:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And they came out so strong.
[20:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I was like, um, I had no doubt that they would be together though.
[20:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, did you did it?
[20:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, I don't, did we think they were not going to make it?
[20:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Chris is the Anna?
[20:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I did.
[20:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I mean, I think that when last week, when she got to the point, my whole life has wrapped up in you and what would my life look like without you and you know, you're an extension of me and I want to see what I look like without you.
[20:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I thought she was ready to go.
[20:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I mean, but they've got three kids.
[20:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So maybe that beyond love, but maybe the three kids to something that you've got to consider.
[21:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I didn't think about that, but what I mean is like on us as they came like not I'm not including it from last last episode was to us the end But she says when they came in like for the first time They were in a real crisis not sure if they were going to make it but when they came in it didn't seem like they were in a crisis It just seemed like they were trying to work through the infidelity, but she didn't seem like she was going anywhere This woman cradled his head on our last
[21:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's what I meant.
[21:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she says they realize that they can actually deal with it, like she can be, I think you're selling Virginia this, that she can be angry, and he can be present to her anger, and they were all like, oh my god, we can actually be in the presence of each other with all of our complexities and their relationship turned into like a much richer relationship.
[21:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Any final thoughts with them?
[22:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I did like Chris said, you're my safe place even when you're angry.
[22:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I was like, oh, that was so neat.
[22:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So I think maybe more couples they do not, the couples that are in crisis, probably need to figure that out.
[22:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm talking to you, Marjorie and Jason.
[22:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Wow guys, Jen says something Chris said was sweet, but yeah, I agree.
[22:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's what I was said.
[22:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like between Chris and CNR2, me, like even when they were going through it, like it felt like you could always still see the tenderness and the love between them compared to like Marjorie and Jason, who I think don't even like each other.
[22:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So there's that.
[22:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Okay, take our first break and I'll be right back.
[22:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, and we're back with Marjorie and Jason.
[22:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So hopefully you remember what we said at the top of the episode because Showtime decided, oh, we should put them in the beginning.
[22:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So we continue in that, and owner is talking to Virginia and says that both Marjorie and Jason, we're seeing Marjorie and Jason in their home.
[22:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And they're son, very eager to make use of therapy.
[23:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They're fast learners, but they're also fast-forgetters, which is the truest thing I've heard all day.
[23:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And we talked about that before.
[23:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's like they get in therapy and they figure something out.
[23:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And like the minute they walk through that threshold of the door, they forget everything and they revert.
[23:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So, yep, absolutely.
[23:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Virginia says that it seems like he has this feeling like, well, that was better.
[23:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, but then the next time he's triggered, he just forgets everything that he knows and he said, and I think when I said a few times there was in sessions, which he, you know, honor is the one who says like in their session, she's just like,
[23:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They go back into the regress for lack of a better word and she's like, well, I guess we've done nothing here and she thinks like that's where he needs work.
[23:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But oners, like, I don't think it's just Jason who's impulsive.
[23:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think Marjorie is impulsive too.
[23:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They do a lie in the lead.
[23:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Finally, we were saying last week that it seems like, or an epics side.
[23:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think that side was Marjorie.
[24:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So finally says something about Marjorie being part of the problem.
[24:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she has to.
[24:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You can't deny it at some point.
[24:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she says like they do a lot in the session.
[24:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It seems to all get better and then they go back home and it's like Groundhog Day and they start all over again.
[24:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Now we're back in therapy.
[24:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They sit down and Marju is like, I want to start the session before Jason starts talking because I'd be reflecting on the past few months and I feel like we're getting so much better.
[24:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Why?
[24:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But then we had like a huge fight.
[24:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then we had like a huge fight yesterday, you know, and it's about something major.
[24:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, what now is it our mother and
[24:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Marjorie thinks that their son has ADHD.
[24:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is Jason's talking.
[24:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he's like, she took him to a doctor to get him diagnosed and he had no idea.
[24:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm like, oh my word.
[24:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How are we here in the finale episode?
[24:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Again, yeah, yeah, Mark Marjorie trying to chime in and saying like no, no, no, it didn't go down that way like I went to my pediatrician to his pediatrician for his yearly evaluation.
[25:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, okay, Jason is like, sure all I know is I got hit.
[25:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: with Ryan got a diagnosis, they want to put him on medication and he lost his absolute mind.
[25:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Understood.
[25:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We started the episode with him telling us that his mom tried to put him on drugs.
[25:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He tried to fight a psychiatric so he tried to take down like KO and streetfighter or something.
[25:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he conquered the the wall the renowned guy and you tell this man and I think we find that later in a text message.
[25:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This people are doing too much.
[25:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And they start arguing about some antics and who said what an owner is just like pause pause and I'm like this does not feel like a final session this feels like we are just starting and we know nothing John Snow
[25:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So on I says, okay, can we pause and can we listen to each other in a way where it's like, how did my partner experience this?
[26:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, no, they can't, it works.
[26:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No, they absolutely cannot because they're so wrapped up in their feelings and they're so wrapped up in being right.
[26:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: and they're so wrapped up and aren't being the referee to be like, beep, that person's wrong.
[26:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That they can't stop for five seconds.
[26:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They know what they're doing is wrong.
[26:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They know what they know.
[26:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You can't possibly go through all the steps that you've gone through because in this situation with her doing whatever she did for the sun and you're going to get into that.
[26:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But also the last time when Jason did whatever he did with the mom, there's several steps that they both took to get to where they're at.
[26:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And at no point in any of those steps that they stopped to think, well, they thought it, I did this because it was going to piss you off.
[26:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, I didn't tell you.
[26:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So they knew it.
[26:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm saying this over and over again.
[26:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They don't like each other.
[26:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They don't respect each other.
[26:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They're just on two parallel lanes living in the same house.
[27:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So.
[27:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Orna says, okay, Jason's experience was that she hit him with a whole bunch of information.
[27:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then he cuts her off and was like, it was brutal for me.
[27:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, he's so dramatic, you know, he said he was upset because he felt like she did it because she was afraid of him shooting that idea down.
[27:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I had to tell you guys, Marjorie looked very guilty.
[27:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's like, I understand.
[27:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I hear that because I think or I asked what do you feel?
[27:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, what did you hear?
[27:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I hear that he felt left out and I'm like, again, you did something behind his back.
[27:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I'm saying that she looked guilty like she was twirling her hair real bad.
[27:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I totally feel
[27:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, she's saying that she took him for his yearly evil.
[27:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I do think she was a little shifty and was manipulative.
[27:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And we're going to talk about it later, like into in detail what happened.
[27:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I'm like, okay, so she says, yeah, I haven't told you everything because it was like a text and it was a quick phone call or work.
[28:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So it'll be the first time that you're hearing this.
[28:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Jenna, are you hearing this?
[28:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, it's crazy.
[28:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So you just said to his face, I didn't tell you everything.
[28:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm going to tell you now, but don't get mad because like, how are you, he operated with the little bit of an orna's operating with a little bit of information that makes you look good.
[28:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And this is the problem with your relationship.
[28:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And this is where I feel both of them.
[28:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know if I include Orner in this field, because now there's a co-dependency of therapy.
[28:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They're not taking anything that they learned and practicing it outside of therapy.
[28:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She purposefully waited until therapy to say everything because they cannot communicate without a referee.
[28:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Every three being Orner.
[28:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yep.
[28:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Orner is probably not Orner, it's probably their kids.
[28:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, come on.
[28:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she doesn't realize that when you dump information on people, now you've got it out your chest, but someone has to receive it and process it.
[29:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he is not equipped by any means to process all that.
[29:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And he knows that.
[29:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's the crazy thing is she absolutely knows that.
[29:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So instead of finding a way to deliver the information in a way that he could receive it, she just did it
[29:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So what she said is Ryan has been struggling in school and she took him for the evil and she's like, oh, casually I'm talking to the physician and I told him some of my worries and concerns.
[29:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: My guess or my imagination is like she led him.
[29:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: to those worries and concerns, to the path where she wanted him to be.
[29:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he's like, oh, sure.
[29:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, we can absolutely do the assessment.
[29:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It was a form, you know, that a parent had to fill out.
[29:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then you send it to the school, to the teacher.
[29:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm like,
[29:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Let's go back, let's go back, Marjorie, don't tell me or try to frame it, like you just went to the doctor, it happened to be part of his evil when there are many steps that you take because the time that you used to call the teacher, fill out the form, send it over his dad, the man you call husband, the man he calls father, who lives in the same house as you, you skip that
[30:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, and he's background.
[30:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yep, and also Jason is not an unenvolved dad.
[30:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He's not one of those dads Where you see them do interviews on the street and and they asked it down like what's your what's your kids?
[30:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Teachers name and they're like, I don't know what your kids birthday.
[30:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I don't know like Jason seems to be an involved dad There's no reason why you would need to purposely keep him out.
[30:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Well, the reason is you you
[30:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: worried about him exploding, but to do this, when he's an involved dad, is worse.
[30:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just, I don't, I would never shit on anyone's parenting style and this is like really egregious, but I don't know that we know enough, but the little that we know, I do not understand Marjorie's parenting style.
[31:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just, I don't get it, and she goes, yes, and I gotta tell you guys, she was going a mile a minute just saying, all of this, just dumping this on this man who is, again, not equipped to handle any of this, and says, yes, I do not tell you about that, because I was worried about your reaction, and then I'm sorry, and then I'm like, ah, you're,
[31:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Looking back, it's like, you can't just say, I'm sorry, but she was like, I was just so worried that, you know, I didn't tell, I didn't tell you because I didn't want your reaction.
[31:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And for me, it was just the way she was being casual, like it's not a major thing, if you are with someone where you don't want to share things because of their reaction, should you even be married?
[31:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Or should you figure out the tools that you can communicate with this person in a way that's going to be received by them because I think he's
[32:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: got this history with it and U.S. is partner that knows his history should be able to have a communication with him that's going to make him be receptive to it.
[32:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I feel like we had last week, the week before, probably the months before, you guys have had to have this skill, this technique that Orna makes you stop and go think about the other person.
[32:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What did you hear them say?
[32:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: you're super wrong or it's so wrong.
[32:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But you remember that when they came in, that was his major gripe.
[32:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: that I'm not heard, I'm being dismissed.
[32:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like whenever she wants to do anything, she just goes ahead and does what she wants to do without telling me.
[32:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I remember he really feels like he has no agency in the house, her mom pays the school fees, the daughter goes into the emails and deletes emails whenever the mom tells her.
[32:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They have a secret code and he says, I don't want dogs on cats, she brings dogs on cats in there.
[33:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I want them to go through a different school.
[33:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's like, no, we're going 80 miles each way.
[33:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just,
[33:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: he's just there and owner is like uh the owner we know is like I understand why you're mad Jason but I want to remind you that you also do things without telling Marjorie I don't like okay she got to stand up for her girl I guess.
[33:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But she says the two of you operate kind of solo, like you know, you remember when you said the letter to her mom that you knew would be terribly upsetting, but it's not about who started what I just want you both to acknowledge that you are not operating as a team and I'm like bingo because you're like each other I just that is the crux the beginning of everything if you don't regard the person if you don't see the person.
[33:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: There's nothing they're going to do.
[33:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like that is the, or in our nild it.
[33:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They operate like their solo people, but the problem is there's a kid.
[33:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They have to rely on parenting styles.
[34:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Gosh.
[34:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah.
[34:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And what aren't I tells them is like, okay, maybe different languages like you can say, I do the same thing, and this is not good for us, but how are we going to get out of this operating solo?
[34:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That is not gonna work.
[34:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then Marjorie is like, oh, but wait, I haven't told him everything yet.
[34:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, stop.
[34:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't even wanna know what they're gonna do.
[34:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, it's because I don't think we can take it.
[34:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, again, in my minute, she's like, okay, I got a phone call yesterday from the pediatrician, and he's telling me about the drug options, there are two options, and he goes, there's one particular medication, those out of the two, but he said, one will be best because it's not like it's addictive, he said, it's out of all, and it's a capsule, but let me finish, let me finish and Jason's like, I can now listen to this, there's no way in hell, I am putting my son on drugs.
[34:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he was like, I wasn't even there during the conversation that came about any of this because this is ridiculous.
[35:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm just how can he make a decision when he wasn't there.
[35:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I can't believe this is real.
[35:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And Marjorie feels so interesting.
[35:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And it's scary.
[35:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: ornamented beyond her side.
[35:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think what's worse is that again this is supposed to be the end of their sessions.
[35:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So it just feels like we achieve nothing.
[35:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Absolutely nothing.
[35:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: uh, or not, it's right to calm them down and I'm just sitting and watching and disbelief.
[35:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And Jason is, he makes a good point.
[35:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: There's Marjorie goes again, making this be with Jason when he says like, or not says we should tell each other from the perspective of how you feel, but you're not telling me how you feel, you are telling me details about this.
[35:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that's when I said, like, I think she's being manipulative.
[36:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She absolutely waited until they could be in the office with Orna and I was like, well,
[36:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, Arna tells her that you know that he has a history that is sensitive to this, so you have to be aware of who you're speaking to.
[36:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That is something that Marjorie does not possess.
[36:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If you choose to marry someone who has like, you know some addiction issues, some trauma and things like that, you have to know that you cannot just move like it's yourself.
[36:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: you have to be realized that there's going to be sensitivity to certain things, certain ways.
[36:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And remember when we found out that what was it that we found that, oh, that he was an addict.
[36:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The first time we found out that he was an addict, and she's just like, oh, he's so rigid.
[36:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He's so strict.
[36:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm like, ma'am, you were speaking like you and we had no idea, but you did.
[36:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So why is it so strange to you that he requires this rigidity?
[36:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I promise you, if he told us an orna, he told you, I need structure.
[37:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The structure keeps me sober.
[37:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like, I don't have structure.
[37:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm going to lose my sobriety.
[37:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So if he's told us that, he certainly is told you that.
[37:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And you were like, yellow, what?
[37:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, and this is why people would date.
[37:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Then you find out the things am I able to You know work with this or am I not but don't say oh, I don't want to lose myself.
[37:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I still want to be a free spirit We're not talking about free spirit or being rigid for the sake of it.
[37:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is an addict who has been through and diagnosed with many things That is just trying to make it through today, okay?
[37:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, um, she says, I understand, but I cannot have him shut down every time she says the word Adoro, which is also fair because he's not creating a space for her to even bring up things because we saw that reaction as soon as she said it, but also we don't know if it's a combination of this is the first time I'm hearing it.
[38:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You went through many steps and I the father was not the first in line.
[38:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: to know about this.
[38:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know which is which.
[38:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So on I says this is a difficult situation.
[38:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We're Jason, you're going to be triggered by what you're hearing and Jason is like, I am really triggers.
[38:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm using a word.
[38:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He just learned.
[38:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You go, boy.
[38:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: No, I do feel some compassion for him in this way because again, he's dealing with an addiction, and yes, I think what he suffers from is like there's a lot of projection, but I can't blame him because all he's trying to do is protect his son, but I feel like his son is suffering the consequences of him seeing himself and his son, and wanting to provide that protection that he didn't get as a child, you know, but he has to have balance, so I don't know.
[38:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Um, or not tells him like he needs to take a deep breath and say to yourself, like, all I need to do right now is listen, um, March says like it is never.
[39:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, she understands, it's understandable and she understands it because he has this addiction history.
[39:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But because he has this history, it doesn't mean that Ryan, their child is like him.
[39:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, you know, he just shuts it down completely and then when he shuts it down, he immediately threatens divorce.
[39:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that's what she's more upset about.
[39:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's like, we can't even work this through and it feels like to work this through.
[39:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She has to be submissive and then it turns into like, I'm a shitty mom and I didn't do everything that I could to try to help him.
[39:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know about you Jen, but she said a lot, but I didn't look at her to tackle from and she was just throwing everything out there just to kind of deflect
[39:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: because Europe said that he was shutting things down, then she said, oh, you threatened divorce and that's what I'm upset about.
[39:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Then she said, well, it feels like I have to shrink myself and be submissive.
[39:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Then she says, it feels like he's saying I'm a shitty mom.
[39:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then it feels like, oh, I'm not doing everything to help him, and I'm like, okay, I don't, which do we tackle?
[40:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I don't know, exactly.
[40:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I can see like if they are having a conversation outside of this, why that would either shut
[40:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: to your point, which am I supposed to do with first?
[40:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like, I mean, what I would think you'd deal with being being partners first and, you know, take divorce off the table, divorce is an option, like, deal with that first, and then you can deal with all the other stuff, but yeah, it's a lot to be thrown at somebody and it's a lot for him to unpack when he doesn't have the tools.
[40:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When he's already elevated and his feelings are at the top and he's already feeling disrespected.
[40:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I can't worry about you when now I'm worried about myself and worried about my son.
[40:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: all that you're picking something that's totally against what I believe in, personally, like don't even get the politics into it, but like you, I constantly believe in a place where I have to compromise, and this is a place where I don't, I'm not going to compromise.
[40:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And he's dug his de-hills in, it's crazy, so crazy.
[41:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Um, Orna says like they both care about their son and he says like yeah, but we have wildly different ways of going about it.
[41:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And Orna is like, well, I wouldn't say it's wildly different.
[41:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, Orna.
[41:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm glad she said that because I don't think it's it is wildly different.
[41:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They both want the best for their son.
[41:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They're approaches are crazy.
[41:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But that's because they're not giving each other the same information.
[41:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think it's wildly different.
[41:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: because he's like, I would never in a million years consider drugs.
[41:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she's just like, let's just go straight to the drugs.
[41:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like she had an inkling, they do that, and then it's immediately let's go to the drugs and he's like, what, nine years old?
[41:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So that's where I think it's wildly different.
[41:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I can't say what is right or what is wrong, because
[41:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, the camp of Jason, where I was like, I don't necessarily always want to treat everything immediately with drugs, like have we tried anything, do we know if it's because there's trouble at home or all the things that you said, has he talked to anyone, has he done anything?
[42:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We just woke up one day and we know the American healthcare system, they love to prescribe you a drug.
[42:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It doesn't matter what it is.
[42:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What do you need?
[42:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I got you.
[42:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'll give it to you.
[42:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And especially for a kid who he has many years ahead of him to start other drugs that you just had an inkling and said, Oh, I think you might have ADHD.
[42:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Then you bring it up and then all of a sudden we're going drugs.
[42:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I kind of understand, but that could be my bias because I understand where he's coming from.
[42:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I would think like you would do different steps and hers is just to go to drugs immediately.
[42:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I do think that is wildly different because what is a compromise in that.
[42:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, they got to some kind later, but at the point where they're all heightened and not speaking to each other, I think it is.
[42:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, Orna says, okay, Jason, try to speak to her in a gentle tone and sound open.
[42:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was expecting like, you know, a deep breath of pause or whatever.
[42:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He immediately tons to her and flips and is like, I understand you want to get him treated hard.
[43:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think that there's some other alternatives out there that are outside of the medicine.
[43:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I do think with a little hard work between you and I, I think a little disciplining structure in our house and we don't need to go straight to, you know, him being possibly getting medicated for ADD or ADHD.
[43:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: My guess that you know the parenting style is just a little wonky when he said a little discipline and structure because I can see Marjorie again we've said it before way feels like she wants to be friends with her kids or feels like she's parenting out of guilt like oh I separate like you know I got divorced or they don't have this or they're separated so I just want to give them and make their life so easy but at the end of the day you are parent not a friend.
[43:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: and I don't think he's so wrong in trying that out first.
[43:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think he's saying, let's try some things out first, then we can go to medicine.
[43:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Medicine seems like the easy way out to him, and I know there may be others that disagree, but they have to be some kind of compromise.
[44:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No, but I, and I imagine that outside of the therapy session that he may not have arrived at that in a conversation.
[44:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I would imagine because orna requires him to a speak in a softer tone, think about what he says and being intentional and as word that he, he arrived at this therapy counseling thing in session.
[44:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I don't know if they had this conversation at home, especially the way that she presented it, if he was able to get their first.
[44:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It would have just been yelling.
[44:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, because they also do the cardinal rule with weight.
[44:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The cardinal, no, no rule of do not focus on being right.
[44:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He's very focused on being right and he's not open to any other thing on there.
[44:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Honestly, Jason, that's a good moment to stop.
[44:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Let's see how, you know, Margie's taking this.
[45:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And Margie's like, I'm surprised because when we talk, you always tell me like, you wouldn't even acknowledge that he got a diagnosis, that you wouldn't even do any education, you know.
[45:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he says like, he would rather bring in a professional to talk to him that deals with that, and not a pediatrician doing a wellness visit.
[45:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm like, okay, that's compromise.
[45:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And also that's true.
[45:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I even think about that.
[45:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm not verse on that, but I'm like, that's true.
[45:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, when do we have someone who's an expert on that?
[45:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He was like, and then he's like, I'm gonna do things.
[45:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, I'm gonna do research.
[45:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'll find the best guy with the best reviews.
[45:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I don't know if he's being sarcastic.
[45:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, a throwback to the renowned guy that threw him out.
[45:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: but he's like, I'll do the best guys with the best reviews.
[45:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That takes our insurance.
[45:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Let's do some more tech guys, that's all for the insurance.
[45:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That was that was real.
[45:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That was a realistic thing that happened today because he was like, I'm gonna find the best that takes our insurance.
[46:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So in the category of within our insurance, the best of the best because guys, even with insurance, you are paying out your ass and God forbid you're out of network.
[46:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's a worse.
[46:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I think it was like we'll go there.
[46:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We'll go together.
[46:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We'll have a real conversation him and I and you and I can agree to that.
[46:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm like
[46:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, that's so it sounds so common sense, but it's a shame that that is not your first thought.
[46:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that's because you guys don't consider each other.
[46:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like you, you do something so long it becomes habit.
[46:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think that's just where they are now.
[46:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But again, they've practiced the skill of, let's think about the other person several times.
[46:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so how do you get this thing to stick?
[46:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I think at some point Orna says, yeah, they need, they have more therapy to practice.
[46:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Some people are not done.
[46:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like I said, let's get out where are they now?
[47:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like we have to.
[47:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What's happening?
[47:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's on us.
[47:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They're on TikTok.
[47:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh.
[47:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay.
[47:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So they should do it.
[47:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah.
[47:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He, I don't know.
[47:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He popped across my feet talking about.
[47:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He's no longer a maga.
[47:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Or yeah.
[47:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I talked about that.
[47:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah.
[47:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So I mean, in terms of where they are now, they're on TikTok.
[47:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: interesting, but they're not doing couples content.
[47:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Okay, I did not, that was I did not follow that.
[47:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, so aren't I asked so what do you each need to do to unify and I need to, I think, um, who said this?
[47:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Jason, I need to maybe watch my tone a little bit and try to articulate my words in the software way and it's very hard because I see what I see and it just comes out, you know, but I need to manage that and on I was like, that's key on your end and she's like, Marjorie, what do you need for the two of you to get on the same page?
[47:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she's like, well, I guess I could listen to him and just try to understand what he's coming from.
[48:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, no margin.
[48:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We wrong answer.
[48:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Maybe like respect him.
[48:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And you know, consider that he's someone in your household that you say you love and you chose to partner with and have a kid with.
[48:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And we'll see where that goes.
[48:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So they talk about how you can say, can you please calm down?
[48:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I want to hear you.
[48:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: lots.
[48:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I don't know if they're going to practice that.
[48:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They're just 0 to 100 real quick.
[48:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But then on I says, you guys have the capacity to do great.
[48:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, Orna, ma'am, we don't need to like.
[48:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You're not there yet.
[48:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So.
[48:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, and I says, I think the two of them will benefit from a long time in a couple of therapy.
[48:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They just need to keep rehearsing and kind of getting into their system, the practice of listening better.
[48:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, they've had a lifetime of learning certain patterns.
[48:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And now they need some time to reverse some of that.
[49:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Good luck to them.
[49:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't have to screw a lot of work to do.
[49:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I'll take a quick deal.
[49:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'll take a quick break and I'll be right back.
[49:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: All right, we're back with Shane Clinton, artists says that with Shane Clinton's mouth, this did not unfold away that she expected in the beginning.
[49:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That year he was playful and a little goofy and she loved that.
[49:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But it was just really hard in the treatments that they really tried.
[49:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They showed up, even though it was painful and difficult.
[49:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And in their relationship, they both worked to try to be good friends and to be good partners to understand each other.
[49:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she's going to see them one more time together.
[49:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it could just fall apart.
[49:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But her hope is that they will make the transition from seeing each other as enemies.
[49:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: connecting to their friendship.
[49:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And you know what's funny when she said that?
[49:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was trying to think like oh when they came in they were like, I've never seen them as friends It just seemed like there was already a lot of resentment by the time we they came in for therapy Like I never saw the tender moments between them
[50:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I had that question too like were they friends before like why are we so hard to put this friendship like I didn't get that they were they were friends that became lovers like they met on a on a online didn't they I don't recall.
[50:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I, but I don't, I get the feeling they weren't like friends turn love or so I don't, I don't understand where we're pushing this friendship so hard, but I don't want to remember they're being like tender and soft and lovable like they were always kind of in this place of friendship.
[50:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, and I think we've seen one picture where maybe they were hugging when they were showing the family background, but they seem to be pretty independent of each other.
[50:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But the other thing I clocked at, I don't know if you clocked it, Clinton's beer chip up is good.
[50:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So who is this new girl, Liz, is got his stuff right, all right?
[50:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was like, you got a beer chip up.
[51:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We saw the new girl at the end, I don't think we do.
[51:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: For Kudos, it is not her.
[51:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Even that's for him.
[51:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We'll be one of his new friends that he has now, but it is not his new girl.
[51:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Um, so they get to the hallway for therapy.
[51:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They wouldn't even look at each other in the hallway.
[51:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's how bad it is, and they came in.
[51:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They come in and she is like, I took some notes from our last session.
[51:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she realized that she was never taught to really ever communicate her feelings.
[51:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she thinks she has a hard time, um, sometimes when it's time to start talking about her feelings.
[51:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And when she does, she starts to break down because it makes it more,
[51:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: real, especially when you're telling it to someone else, and it's just such an experience for her.
[51:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So honor is just like can you share your experience talk to Clinton and tell him what you want to say?
[51:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she said she would say that she is sad, that she feels deeply sad,
[52:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That has been challenging to not speak to him at all.
[52:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's been, you know, they speak to each other every day And she was hoping that they could find some middle ground and they could stand together But then nothing worked and she also feels like
[52:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He moved on so quickly and not only did she feel harmed.
[52:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, oh, harm.
[52:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Those are her very strong words, but then she failed to replace.
[52:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then Anna times in is like, um, I recommend that you like exist.
[52:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, um, in the wonderful and speak about what matters to you, but also let's, you know, check in with Clinton.
[52:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I guess I was all way of like, really things back, but I wish you could have, I mean, what did she mean by hard?
[52:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Oh, I got stuck on.
[52:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What did you miss?
[52:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like, you talk every conversation to him seem like an obligation and do you really miss having to deal with his credit cards?
[52:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Do you really miss having to deal with him not telling you the truth?
[53:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like, what is it that you missed?
[53:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: All of that felt terrible.
[53:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So that part got me.
[53:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I didn't even clock what you just clocked.
[53:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I was just like, missed what?
[53:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Having control.
[53:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I guess.
[53:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she's like,
[53:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How are you feeling?
[53:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He's like, I'm okay.
[53:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm just listening.
[53:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm just listening to her and he's like, I hear where she's coming from.
[53:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Thank you.
[53:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I miss her a lot.
[53:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I can see that she felt like I was abandoning the relationship at this point.
[53:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She is crying.
[53:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And my type had.
[53:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She looks so pretty today.
[53:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She did something to her hair and her makeup and should be pretty.
[53:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He says like he wasn't abandoning the relationship.
[53:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What happened is that he found a community where he could talk to them more.
[53:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he doesn't really have a lot of friends.
[53:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: At this point, he's talking in his baby voice and kind of breaking down a little.
[53:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And yeah, he fell in love with this autistic person, but he loved Shay and wanted to marry her.
[53:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And just the thought of saying I wanted to marry her, just got Shay breaking down.
[54:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm like, Shay,
[54:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You really want it to marry, just man.
[54:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I like everything Jen just said a few moments ago.
[54:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, it just didn't sound great on your end.
[54:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You were not happy.
[54:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No, but I guess if she's committed to unhappiness, if she stuck on like, I loved you and I gave you all of this.
[54:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And for him to say I wanted to marry you, it feels like especially because she felt like she's so stuck on, he moved on so quickly.
[54:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So I would imagine that hurts more to hear for her.
[54:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like not only did you move on quickly, you moved on quickly, even though you were thinking about marrying me.
[54:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Sox, yeah.
[54:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, how's it wish we had a time span of how long the sessions and everything was and how long it was before the new girlfriend or because if he already has a girlfriend then she was right there was an overlap.
[54:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Over there so he says he knows that he heard she but he's really sorry he's really really sorry and then he sets crying he curls up on the couch and then he starts to sob it's not just tears like.
[55:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: his body's racking, like, sobs.
[55:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Orner says, oh, that's nice.
[55:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The two of you being able to be sat together and talk is great.
[55:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like,
[55:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, I guess I don't get it.
[55:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But she says that she still loves him deeply and he's like, yeah, I will always love you.
[55:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then he goes to her and puts his head on her lap.
[55:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I know it, even though I was triggered.
[55:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was triggered by Chris.
[55:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I was like, no, no more of these men putting their head in women's arms.
[55:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No.
[55:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, I mean, they always take a,
[55:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, that I was going to say they always take the head, but they always And they're stroking it's okay Because she did and on see that was the end of their session.
[56:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I still made day the producer just like as little as shade clean as we can put because That was it and I was like whoa, okay, we're done and that's it So we see her doing her activities are her friends she's doing karaoke seems to have moved on
[56:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And Arnes as well, it's an incredible, incredibly important lesson for people to know that there's just a huge amount of learning that can happen from breaking up well, and people can resume their journey as individuals with a better understanding of themselves, and that's when we see Clintons new girlfriend, she's wearing a mask, so we don't really get to see her full face, but they are, I don't know, playing a card game somewhere and Clintons there's to be thriving and happy and walking on here on the street.
[56:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah.
[56:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm happy for him.
[56:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm happy that he found his community.
[56:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm not happy how he did it.
[56:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But I'm happy that now he doesn't have like one person being the soul.
[56:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You know, listen to determine where his life is going to go.
[56:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so that part I'm happy and Jay, hopefully is happier.
[57:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: She seems to have a good network of friends.
[57:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So this was not an ideal
[57:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, because eventually they're going to listen, whether they want to admit it or not, they're not compatible.
[57:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It was for the season, they were not meant to be long term.
[57:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it doesn't help anyone to be in a relationship where you're in Ed Shells.
[57:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She felt like she couldn't say anything.
[57:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She felt like he was hiding behind his autism.
[57:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she just felt like I don't want to say things or it is feelings and even some things that she would say.
[57:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He can't clock it the way that she would clock it.
[57:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's almost like she was treating him
[57:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: as if he processes information like everybody like the average person and he just doesn't it's just a mere fact and he felt like he wasn't being his fool self.
[57:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He left his mom but he didn't leave his mom to come being a relationship where he felt like he was with his mom all over again.
[57:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He just wants to feel some freedom and whether he's wrong or right.
[58:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: he just wants to feel like at least it's on my own terms and he's finding that with his community and she's going to find someone that's great for her and he's going to find or he found someone that's great for him so they'll be all right okay they saved the best for last Dreia and Nessa they come in and Dreia says I didn't notice that she seemed down a little bit after
[58:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And also, so weird that like, it's a secret, because Dre was like, uh, nested doesn't want me to tell you this.
[58:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So what's what's what's the secrecy about?
[58:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You're in therapy.
[58:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What do we hold them back now?
[58:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: because then this is the second time.
[58:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Remember, Nessa came in here, takes X after table, I don't wanna do this.
[58:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, she's wearing her night gown.
[58:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, I don't wanna sleep in there because she has to recognize sometimes.
[58:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: When you see things through other people's eyes and you're like, okay, this is ridiculous.
[59:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, you know what, you know what, like I think was it here?
[59:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Where we talked about when you have a cleaner coming to your house and then you clean up your house because you're like, you don't want them to see that your house was dirty.
[59:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's just trying to clean it up.
[59:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, because it is ridiculous, so she's like what I'm saying it what I'm seeing is that there's a pattern.
[59:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm just what in the heck?
[59:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like what what are we what are we doing?
[59:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, but JS says, JS actually thinks owner is right that she's right that they should have boundaries and then that's a comes in there and she feels like, oh, what are the boundaries?
[59:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How can I break these boundaries?
[59:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is the worst.
[59:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm sorry.
[59:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm so sorry because this is terrible.
[59:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is awful.
[59:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So this is like, I'm not trying to sabotage her boundaries.
[59:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's just that when she actually does the homework and she's able to separate aka be less codependent, it's just really attractive to me.
[1:00:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Can I point out that I
[1:00:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: found it very interesting that she chose to use the word when she chooses to separate from me, versus saying when she decides to be less codependent.
[1:00:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know if that means anything, but it just stood out to me that she chose to say separate from me.
[1:00:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But also, she didn't choose
[1:00:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: left whether whether or not physically or emotionally, but you in last episode talk about leaving the whole room when she was trying to be sexy.
[1:00:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So she didn't choose to separate.
[1:00:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You didn't give her any choice.
[1:00:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And now you find that sexy because like when you had a whole marriage to somebody else, you were still messing with her.
[1:00:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So there's something about the separation that you've caused that you found attractive.
[1:00:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Be real with yourself.
[1:00:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We talked about it last episode.
[1:00:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's just the fact that she truly believes because remember the language was if she's really telling the truth, if she's really gonna go, but there's something about, oh shit, she might be serious and she might go and she's like, uh, no, I'm never gonna find anyone I can control like this anymore.
[1:01:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I gotta keep this, you know?
[1:01:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And the whole time that she's doing it, Dre is looking at her lovingly and I'm like, these two, she probably just needs to get there
[1:01:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They like the pattern, it's going to happen, and there's nothing we can do about it.
[1:01:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So they say that they were basically breaking up, but when they came down to the next session they were in a new place, and then deciding not to break up, and I think this was necessary talking.
[1:01:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she says, I think what happened, again, this is the separate thing that she gets
[1:01:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And...
[1:01:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know what to do with this because Ness has on a journey to discover more of herself.
[1:01:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, but they're like the work we did in couples therapy is just a tip of the iceberg.
[1:02:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You mean there's more?
[1:02:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You mean there's more?
[1:02:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What?
[1:02:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I like when she says, Ness is says, I've done the work.
[1:02:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And Ernest says, oh, really?
[1:02:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What work?
[1:02:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And she says, nothing.
[1:02:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because you haven't done crap.
[1:02:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Shut up, Ernessa.
[1:02:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Shut up.
[1:02:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So Nessa says, I went from I need to get out of here to I'm going to how am I going to leave to okay spaces here so I'm okay so I'm going to go home now and because that space made within the marriage that to your point she's like she's doing the work for herself which kind of freed up some energy for her and I'm like Nessa that's a whole bunch of words salad like I just word salad so.
[1:02:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Um, when I think order asked her a question and she's like I've experienced a lot when she was in her teenager.
[1:02:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She survived the shooting with her brother and because of the trauma that she didn't allow herself to be that little girl that was interesting choice of words.
[1:03:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She goes that was pink.
[1:03:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Um, soft or cared for and I didn't feel protected in the way that I should have been protected.
[1:03:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think it showed up in like,
[1:03:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: the tough girl persona that she puts on like, no, I'm fine.
[1:03:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I could take Arabic and I don't need anything else.
[1:03:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she thinks that the little girl that needed protection, she blocked up parts of her that are trying to come out to be like, I need someone to take care of me.
[1:03:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I'm like, well, that's my wife.
[1:03:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: My wife is going to take care of me.
[1:03:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But she's like, no, you got to take care of me in that way.
[1:03:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she's like, no, you take care of me.
[1:03:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But this is how we built this.
[1:03:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm like, okay, but it's still the part of me that needs that.
[1:03:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So where do I find that?
[1:03:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And my question for you is, did you think this fit into the conversation?
[1:03:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Or did you think that this was just necessary bringing up something else again to justify her behavior?
[1:03:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: B, B, all the way B, B, because anytime she's challenged on something, then that's when she brings up some some tragedy that's happened to her life.
[1:04:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So before and I'm not saying that all of these things aren't valid, but these are all things that you need to work on outside of
[1:04:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: your relationship with Dreia, but she brought up the thing about all of her friends, ditching her, she brought up a thing about having to take care of her mom and having to be the resource for her mom.
[1:04:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Now there's the shooting, then about having having to deny her being a lesbian and the church thing, like you have a lot of stuff going on and those are all things that we should absolutely work on.
[1:04:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But none of those things have anything to do with Dreia.
[1:04:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, and she's willing to talk about that, but not give us full information.
[1:04:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like the pastor comparing the blessing of your child to a poor addiction, like you being married to a man for nine months, like you being married and sleeping with dreadful whole time, like you just saying, oh, I don't want this and leaving the apartment to go buy a house and then you moved her, it girl.
[1:05:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, so Anna asked Andrea, if she has heard that describe that way before, she says she has, but she never heard her related to the tough guy persona that, you know, and it's funny because the way Nessa dates pictures in her mind, it's with the shooting, like it's like the, that's a timestamp, you know, of her life.
[1:05:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, Andrea says she feels like the more
[1:05:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: controlled that she was the more that she was set in stone with her.
[1:05:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But the more that Dreher grows up, that she understands that she can exist without being velcroed.
[1:05:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Nessa says, but that's the thing.
[1:05:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Anytime she says something like this, I feel like I can breathe and I can just relax.
[1:05:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And Dreher was like, OK, recently, we had sex.
[1:05:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And we were just wrapped up in each other.
[1:05:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it just reminded me of when we first met.
[1:06:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it just felt normal.
[1:06:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It felt nice.
[1:06:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And Nessa is smiling.
[1:06:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, and it just says, it's been a treat working with you.
[1:06:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, I think they're a favorite too.
[1:06:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We guys were delicious, deliciously smart.
[1:06:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I will miss you.
[1:06:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She did not tell any of the couples that I'm going to tell you that.
[1:06:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I don't think Martha and Jason got that.
[1:06:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, yeah.
[1:06:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So Dre is joking and she's like, did you say I was your favorite?
[1:06:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Who's your favorite?
[1:06:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And all that stuff.
[1:06:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she hugs them.
[1:06:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: as they leave.
[1:06:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And Orna says when you understand that a lot of what people do is motivated by forces that they're not aware of, you can feel much more compassion towards them.
[1:06:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And when you hear what people have gone through and understand like how they become who they become, it opens up like the horizon to understand who's there in front of you.
[1:06:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then we see Chris and CNN saying,
[1:06:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: here.
[1:06:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It was like a heart with a band-aid or something like that.
[1:06:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then we see her like hug all the couples.
[1:07:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: When she's hugging Marjorie and Jason, she hugs Marge.
[1:07:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But then she asks Jason for permission.
[1:07:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's like, can I hug you?
[1:07:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, okay, she does not hug.
[1:07:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She just opens the door for them.
[1:07:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It leads like, okay, bye.
[1:07:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then it's Halloween.
[1:07:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think when they wrapped everything up and we see all of them in their various costumes for Halloween and the credits roll and that was the end of season five.
[1:07:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We can breathe now.
[1:07:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I do wonder if they're gonna do the same thing as season four where we had that part be with like all new different couples and I'm like, why is it not just like season six what is for be like, I don't know, I don't know if they're gonna do that that's not done.
[1:07:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This was a good wrap up.
[1:07:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This was a good bow.
[1:07:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is closure.
[1:07:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm good.
[1:07:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, but it's just it was new couples.
[1:08:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But I'm not ready for new couples.
[1:08:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm still processing what I've been through with these couples.
[1:08:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm not ready to bring new couples in.
[1:08:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You should take a break between, you know, one tough relationship and a new one.
[1:08:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like you should let it breathe.
[1:08:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So I need some breathing room before I start diving in the new couples.
[1:08:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: fair enough, fair enough.
[1:08:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, Jan, thank you for joining me on the season.
[1:08:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Always a pleasure to do a couple of therapy with you.
[1:08:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And do you have any final thoughts, words about the season or anything?
[1:08:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm still impressed by you always, not only that you keep all of these meticulously good notes, but you have incredible insights onto.
[1:08:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: to couples and if you ever decided to check your career and go into therapy, I think you've got a powerful future in that if you can do it without getting into student debt.
[1:08:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So I was a pleasure working with you and talking with you and meeting with you every week.
[1:08:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm going to miss you, but I'm excited to listen to you and to see all of this stuff that you've got going on.
[1:09:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You're doing awesome.
[1:09:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Thank you, I'm gonna have you back one way or another.
[1:09:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm excited for you to go to Australia.
[1:09:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That is pretty cool.
[1:09:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But one last time, can you share not forever, guys.
[1:09:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But just my last time this season, can you share with people where they can find you?
[1:09:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And you have to be.
[1:09:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yes, you can follow my husband and I as we travel the world right now, we're in Asia.
[1:09:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so we've got Australia, Japan and Taiwan coming up.
[1:09:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So you can follow us on jns.adventures on Instagram and YouTube.
[1:09:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, guys, you know where to find me, Teen Talks on all of the social media of your choice.
[1:09:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Please give me a five star rating on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
[1:09:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Say subscribe so you don't miss out on any new episodes.
[1:09:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Don't forget that maps is coming back soon.
[1:09:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I will be covering that as well.
[1:09:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So look up for that July 12th is the season premiere.
[1:09:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We've heard, so I'll be back with that.

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.