# Couples Therapy: S5 Ep. 7 w/Jenn

An episode of [Tayne Talks: A Reality TV Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1522401890), 12 Jul 2026, 1 h 06 min.

Audio: https://pdst.fm/e/pscrb.fm/rss/p/audio3.redcircle.com/episodes/ed2c3c16-4ed2-4be0-83aa-ed3dbac3ac52/stream.mp3

Jenn joins me as Shay is big mad with Clinton as we find out they are in an open relationship. Orna uncovers more about Nessa and Drea's history. Marjorie and Jason are are at odds again when he rage emails her mom without checking with her first. Things get emotional when Sienna shares about a past assault when she was a teenager. Trigger warning on talk about sexual assault and rape from 25.15 - 27.38 Get bonus episodes on Patreon on documentaries, MAFS content and reality shows like Sister Wives and 90 Day Fiance. Different levels are available - a tier to listen to episodes ad-free ($3), a tier for bonus episodes ($5) and another to listen ad-free, bonus episodes and get regular episodes early ($10) Join the conversation in the Patreon Community Chat and on Instagram, Twitter, Bluesky and Threads - @taynetalks Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

## Transcript

[0:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Hi everybody, welcome to another episode of Teen Talks.
[0:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm your host Tain here to talk to you today about couples therapy Susan 5 episode 7 here with me as always is Jen.
[0:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Hi Jen.
[0:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How are you doing?
[0:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Tane, I am equally wonderful and terrible at the same time.
[0:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't know if how that's possible.
[0:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm doing wonderful because this world cup has taken over my life and I'm just equally, like countries I've never heard of.
[0:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm just rooting for them and I'm like deep into these men's lives.
[0:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Now I see how you end up deep diving into the lives of people on a couple of stairs because I am deep diving into these men.
[0:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I've never heard of and it's just, it's a problem.
[0:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's so cool, like, you know, I enjoy soccer and there's so many people like you're saying, like, that's the thing that the World Cup does.
[0:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's like introducing you to people that you may or may not have known, like everyone is going crazy about the Nigerian goalkeeper's purely for his looks because I've said before, we did not qualify for the World Cup.
[1:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But you know, it's still discovering new people.
[1:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Doesn't have to be someone currently playing.
[1:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And
[1:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, by time you guys, you know, hear this, I don't know what would be, we'd probably be at the quarter finals and we don't know who's going to be there yet.
[1:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Do you have a favorite for who you want to win?
[1:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Um, well, mainly I'm rooting for countries where we visited, you know, my husband and I have been traveling for the last four years and we spent a good amount of time in South America.
[1:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So really like the South America teams are coming to the forefront, even little ones.
[1:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Um, but then some of the other ones that, you know, I'm trying to root for Co-Divore.
[1:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't know where they're going to be at this point with the time of the recording, but some of the little countries that could, I just, I'm so happy for them, too.
[1:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah.
[1:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah.
[1:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Thanks.
[1:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Go, countries go.
[1:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: All right, guys, we are here.
[1:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We are at episode seven, and they started with Dreya and Nessa.
[2:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They were like, cold opening, let's just dive in.
[2:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Did that make you happy?
[2:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like, where were you when you saw their faces?
[2:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: have like this little weird fun internal game that I play with just myself, oh, who's going first?
[2:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Which rotation are they going?
[2:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Where are they gonna place this person?
[2:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Are we getting three?
[2:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Are we getting four?
[2:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Are we getting of background today?
[2:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And this is the first time this season that J and S are going first.
[2:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I'm just like,
[2:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, Dre has said that she has a lot of expectations as someone's wife and as someone's wife, she feels that she's owed a lot, meaning that she's a person whose identity is very tied into being a wife and mother.
[2:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Nothing wrong with that is just who she is as a person and there's some people that are like that you meet people who are like I don't want to be known as just a wife and mother But I think Dreya is the opposite and she wants to be known as a wife and mother and that's who she is and doesn't seem to need to explain anything else beyond that
[3:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Um, she says she likes to spend, well, Orna is like, what does that mean?
[3:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What are the expectations?
[3:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she's like, like, they spend lots of time together.
[3:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And Nessa has to say, okay, go ahead.
[3:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What was it just say it?
[3:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she says, I don't know.
[3:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she's like, sex.
[3:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But she seems hesitant to speak.
[3:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, Dre, and now it's not the time.
[3:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You always speak, so she's like, well, I don't mean like on demand, but when I want it, I'm like, that's on demand, boo.
[3:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Um, and that says this comes from the last session where she canceled her appointment and Jay actually went out and she had a good time and she felt good and she felt great and I'm like, oh my god, we had to follow up to a homework and also it looks like the episodes were in order, which since.
[4:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But okay, we're just going with it.
[4:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Um, so after that,
[4:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And after that session, she wasn't imposing her desire to be intimate on her, but then the next day, she was like, ooh, let me put this night dress on.
[4:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Here's the ironic thing.
[4:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This night dress we have heard about it for a number of times.
[4:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But in my mind, how can something called a night dress be sexy?
[4:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But this is all I'm thinking about is what is this piece of clothing that is her signal to want to have sex and we're calling it a night dress, like night dress, I'm imagining you know those animations where they have those people when they're going to bed and they wear like a shirt dress and a hat, like it's like a quad crane, yeah, it's for us.
[4:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So like, give me a call to something else.
[4:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But nitress, and sexy time, I do not put two together.
[5:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so, well, also because generally, Drea doesn't present very, like, she comes at her hair in a bun.
[5:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It doesn't like she works makeup that much.
[5:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like, even when they do shots of her at home, she's very not plain.
[5:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But she's not overly, I'm guessing she's not, whatever this nitress is, it's not from projects of Hollywood.
[5:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It might be like,
[5:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: one silky thing that she picked up at Victoria's Secret once.
[5:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't think it has spikes on the boobs or anything.
[5:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't think it's anything crazy, but for some, it's just so triggering to Vanessa and the word imposing her desire on me see real dramatic.
[5:45] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like, just think you're white.
[5:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, still white.
[5:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Just wanna point it out.
[5:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yes, but you're also spent, you're still there.
[5:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: If you don't want her imposing your desire on you, then you need to not be there.
[5:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like how is she, if you're still in the house and you're still living like a couple, why wouldn't she think that she could put on quote imposed her desire on you?
[6:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You're still there.
[6:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, and also it's not imposed.
[6:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's letting you know.
[6:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Right.
[6:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's DTF.
[6:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Not imposing.
[6:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay.
[6:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Imposing is like holding you down and saying you must fuck me.
[6:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't even know after all the things that Vanessa has said, Andrea, why should we even want to, but she does.
[6:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, you know, get her a little bit.
[6:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Because
[6:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: all of the desires came flowing.
[6:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And Dreha is too lazy.
[6:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's not going out there to look for somebody else.
[6:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I have inbuilt sex in here.
[6:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Why would I go look for it like, you know?
[6:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I get to it too, like especially, you know, I've been married for nine years.
[6:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like they thought I'm having to break in a new person and train a new person.
[6:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like it's, I'm good.
[7:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's like, you can say all the things when it comes to sex.
[7:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Let's just be like, Shay, let's separate the two and just do what we need to do.
[7:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, you mentioned it.
[7:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was going to mention it later, where it's like, she's not a person who puts on a lot of makeup and does all the things.
[7:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I got to say on this episode, it was a lot.
[7:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, it just, she came in.
[7:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She did not try at all.
[7:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She looked, I don't know if she was exhausted or she didn't her hair was just all over the place and nothing and I was like, is this a bad day or is just regular day for her?
[7:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Because even the shots at home she looked actually better.
[7:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I don't know, I don't know what that was about.
[7:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, so she, or not ask why they aren't having sex
[7:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: thought she said it already and how she wanted to take sex off the table.
[7:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that's as like because we don't want to continue in the same cycle of me leading her on.
[8:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: while I am on this quest to honor myself and my desires.
[8:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was like, interesting choice of words, but I wrote that I was just like, Nessa is fine with it, like, that's okay.
[8:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, she'll lean her on, baby.
[8:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's fine.
[8:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, speak for yourself.
[8:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She says that she doesn't want to have sex with her because she's asking her to and on her ass, Drea, does that make sense to you?
[8:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And Nessa confronts what I'm thinking because she's like, why can we do both?
[8:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Why are you making me juice?
[8:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't want to.
[8:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's right.
[8:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Nessa is looking at Anna to me.
[8:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Her face says,
[8:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You should tell her like no we can't we can't do that and please please tell her why don't have to do this So yeah, it's just like right we can do both right like Orna's like no I'm asking you she's like well if the spirit moves us and orna's like there are no rules
[9:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then we get pictures of their relationship over the years.
[9:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We've gotten a lot of pictures of their relationship over the years.
[9:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But again, they've been together since the late 19.
[9:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So they do have a lot of memories to share.
[9:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So on an ask them about their previous major cycles, like what are these previous previous major cycles that she has mentioned, Necesses says they started off passionate, young, like, you know, and the way they were moving, like, she just wanted to do more.
[9:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she left their apartment and got her own apartment.
[9:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Just as that's an interesting way to say you broke up with me, but I was thinking, if you leave an apartment, whether two people paying rent or maybe she was only one, how do you save to buy a house?
[9:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How does that save to go get another apartment and then buy a house?
[9:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, she did it.
[9:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: all sweet tain.
[9:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This is I love that you want clarity and you want to understand the hall of the stuff works.
[9:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You're so sweet.
[10:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, all because I think it was bullshit though.
[10:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like don't make it sound nice to say that you want it to save.
[10:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So you got your in a part, man, because it's ass backwards.
[10:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: people moving together to save money.
[10:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They don't move out where you have to pay another deposit, get another place, and I'm sure if you were with her, maybe even if it was a one-bedroom or two-bedroom, or I guess, Jaya doesn't work, and you were paying on your own, how do you save?
[10:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Either way, so I thought it was bullshit.
[10:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She went at her own space, just saved us.
[10:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yep, this is magical thinking, and I don't want to give her credit for being
[10:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Diabolical, but it works.
[10:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Every Diabolical thing she does works.
[10:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So yes, Dre has said, that's an interesting way to say you broke up with me and she goes, Yeah, I did, but I'm just saying why I did it.
[10:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But part of it was that she wanted to sleep around.
[10:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She wanted to explore the people.
[10:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was like, say that.
[10:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: No, rent dressing on it and say you wanted to buy your house.
[11:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Thanks.
[11:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, I'm just like, okay, so Ness is not new to this, like, she's felt trapped for a while because this was when they were young.
[11:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's why.
[11:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, this has been going on, they're not lying when they say it's a cycle because now we're 41 and we're still doing this.
[11:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, going like we said, you know, couple episodes ago, it does feel like a drake can be suffocating.
[11:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, Ness is her entire world and that has to be a lot of pressure since you're in 19.
[11:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But all of the, but I, there had to be a way for this to come up sooner, like at the point where Vanessa said, I have to leave this house.
[11:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm leaving this house.
[11:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm going somewhere else at that point.
[11:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Did y'all have the conversation of, hey, this is why I need space because I feel X wearing Z, probably not because I still can't have that conversation, but it's so frustrating.
[11:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I feel like they have and that's why I put so kind of like, you know, when we have this whole Amanda on West thing, I don't even put West in the equation because some is wrong with that man.
[12:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The honest to me is on Amanda, like you should know better.
[12:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: In this case, the honest to me is on Nessa because
[12:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's almost like I don't know them personally, but I can guarantee that Dre is not doing anything.
[12:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Dre is not looking out there for anything.
[12:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Dre is not going to try anything different.
[12:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Dre is just comfortable.
[12:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's going to come what makes she's going through it.
[12:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Nessa, you are the one who wants something different.
[12:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You are the one who keeps leaving.
[12:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Why are you coming back?
[12:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We know that the constant is that Dre is going to take you back.
[12:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You're the one who suffocating.
[12:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You're the one who needs oxygen.
[12:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Why are you not walking away?
[12:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So to me, the onus is on her.
[12:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And it's either because A, she hasn't found anything better because, you know, if that happens a lot with like, people open up their relationship and the man thinks, yeah, I'm gonna get it left to right and it turns out the wife is a more popular version of this.
[12:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's like, once she gets out there and she realizes, oh, I'm not the prize, or people don't give me, I'm not propped up and I'm not somebody's everything like I am with dress.
[13:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So let me go back to that, is what I think happens.
[13:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, Nessa says, okay, so I was doing my thing.
[13:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was in relationships, but we were still best friends sleeping with each other.
[13:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, okay, so my question is Dreya.
[13:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, I know the answer, but my question is still Dreya.
[13:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Were you dating other people?
[13:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You're watching her date other people?
[13:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Are you dating other people?
[13:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Or she having comfort in that I can date other people?
[13:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I know for sure Dre is not gonna do anything and she's dead when I need her.
[13:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And you're sleeping with each other.
[13:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, Dre, you yourself should have that inkling, you're young, you're free.
[13:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Someone else, she's sleeping with other people and you're always the constant, break yourself free of her.
[13:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But she's not going to do that.
[13:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: No, but I also, I get all the explains why at this point in their relationship with things are so terrible that Dre still wants to have sex with her because they're patterned.
[14:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, yeah, like again, the constant is she's not going anywhere because it's too much work.
[14:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If, if she cannot do her daily function like taking her kids to daycare and doing anything, because Nessa is not around, we cannot expect anything else.
[14:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: No, I'm hurt.
[14:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So yeah, and in her mind, the way her mind functions, I think she feels like as long as Nessa keeps coming back, what is the problem she's one of those people like I see this on reality shows all the time at the end of the day is coming up to me, I'm like that's not a place, but you know, okay, congratulations
[14:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, so I could ask why is Dre putting up with this, but that's a solo, you know, therapy session, and that's a whole other thing to unpack.
[14:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think we kind of got it, her mama scared of everything.
[14:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She scared of everything.
[14:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's going to change at 41 doubt it.
[14:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But here we are.
[14:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Dre does what she does when necessary tells us a dream of dreams and Dre is like, no.
[15:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We're like, oh, there's like, well, and she's like, no, that's not what happened.
[15:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's like,
[15:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You forgot to mention that you broke up with me because you were married to someone for nine months out loud my mouth.
[15:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I said, oh, what is this?
[15:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Why would you leave that out to you, dream teller?
[15:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I have to stop drinking water while I watch the show because every time something like this happens, I spit it out.
[15:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: because what the way the message is glosses over stuff to make herself sound like the villain or not the villain, but the victim and the way Drey is here to be a true teller, I'm I'm applauding that part, but what how do you forget to mention a whole marriage and all of this?
[15:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Exhibit 500 and 58 guys why I ran that's how my favorite code is going to come out of their mouths from week to week I thought we had peaked guys.
[15:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I really thought we had peaked and I just I can't even imagine Dreia in a heteromulation ship because she just seemed like
[16:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, I shouldn't say she's comfortable because she a couple of episodes ago or I did earn earth that there's some internalized homophobia, right?
[16:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So it does track, right?
[16:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, but that was a whole bomb that I was married boom.
[16:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Oh, and it was a two or two.
[16:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Oh, what?
[16:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Honestly, that's true.
[16:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Because I when she said she was married so when I was I thought it was a woman.
[16:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I did do.
[16:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And they said, I was like, what?
[16:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she says, um, yeah, we got back together because the whole time I was married, we're still sleeping with each other.
[16:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The whole time we were married.
[16:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm like,
[16:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This disrespect that we're seeing in the therapy session is just normal because Dre has been disrespecting I'm sorry, Nessa has been disrespecting Dre at this entire time like all this I'm hearing is just disrespectful like you're going around See people then come back with her you go around and actually get married and then still sleep for her during the whole time And you're trying to figure stuff out.
[17:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like this people have age-honor.
[17:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm sure honor is like a lot of
[17:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Honestly, I'm gonna write a book, y'all are crazy.
[17:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I just, yeah, oh my god, so Nessa's just a cheater, cheater pants is what we learned is that she is incapable of being, I was gonna say, fidelity, incapable of being faithful.
[17:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't know if it's just a Dreia, and maybe that's the other reason why none of her other relationships stick is because she cheats on everybody.
[17:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Maybe you should be alone, sis.
[17:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'll go that far, but I would say she's selfish, maybe they're on the same umbrella, but I do think that she's selfish because it looks like she has been on a quest.
[17:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it doesn't matter.
[17:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The quest currently now is she wants to see what it's like to explore the world more, but she's always on one quest or the other and she doesn't seem to realize that it hurts other people specifically, Drea, which at this point, Drea just wants to do nothing about it, so whatever comes your way, that is what you get, honestly.
[18:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: because you shouldn't stand for this.
[18:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's the most important thing for me.
[18:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Once again, Orner is not asking why are you putting up with this?
[18:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it's so frustrating because
[18:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know if this is not the order we used to know, but there are just so many easy low hanging for questions that are not being asked because while we're not asking Jaya, why have you put up with this this whole time?
[18:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How did you feel when she got married?
[18:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Why did you think that it was okay to keep sleeping with her?
[18:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, how do you feel that you keep taking her back?
[18:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Regardless of what she does and regardless of what she wants because now if you're dealing with like, okay, I should be head of her own, I should be married to a man, but you're still there enabling her.
[18:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: to take a breath, but that's all the questions that I had.
[19:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We're doing that time.
[19:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's a matchup, yep.
[19:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, so she says that she glossed over it because they were past that.
[19:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, Oh, no, it's not.
[19:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's new information to her.
[19:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How can you say they're past that?
[19:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And you're not the one who had consequences to that, you had the
[19:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You don't get the right to say, we're past that.
[19:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's like if Crystal Sienna, we're past that.
[19:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, you know, let's move forward.
[19:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, anyways, and she was like, or not asked about the cycle.
[19:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So that's what I was talking about.
[19:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she explains that she was still struggling with her sexuality, she met a man at her job, he married him, and was like, okay, this is how I'm supposed to live my life.
[19:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And,
[19:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm so shocked.
[19:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think my jaw is still on the floor by the time she was explaining this whole story and it just goes to show you that at therapy is going to only do so much and can only work with what is shared with them.
[19:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, yep.
[19:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Imagine if Jaya wasn't there.
[20:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, it would have been like, oh my gosh, poor you, like, oh, you're dealing with all of this stuff and dotted it up and yeah, and that's the tough part about being a therapist.
[20:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You can only talk about what people present to you.
[20:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I remember when Jack's from Band of Promperals, I was going to therapy and he was manipulating that whole situation.
[20:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's like, no, no, no, roll the tape.
[20:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This man's terrible.
[20:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So Nessa says that the thing is that after they were done, he left her house and Drea moved in.
[20:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she says that she, Dre says that she has always let her go do her thing and they will always get back together.
[20:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, not a flex, but okay.
[20:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's 40 years old now and she's going to be sitting on the side waiting for her for the rest of her life and I'm like, well, this is why Ness is pulling this shit.
[20:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You're always gonna be there like that, you know?
[21:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: She's like, watch it for yourself, man.
[21:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's a question for yourself.
[21:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Probably requires too much thought and she's just pushing it aside.
[21:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: too much work.
[21:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she's like, at 50, am I going to make this decision again?
[21:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, you know, do I want to change?
[21:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Is this how things are going to be?
[21:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that's like, I agree.
[21:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I agree.
[21:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We do have to do something different.
[21:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, Nessa, you are something.
[21:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's acting like we're talking about somebody else completely like Jair knows what she wants.
[21:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She wants her comfortable life.
[21:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You lead.
[21:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I follow.
[21:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I put on my night dress, I have sex and that's it.
[21:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You're the one who wants things, but you don't even seem to know what you want.
[21:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I wonder if
[21:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's still struggling with her sexuality.
[21:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Or not doesn't ask that, but it's just a question, like, are you still uncomfortable?
[21:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Does Dre just truly remind you of your sexuality?
[21:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And you're still uncomfortable with that?
[22:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I wanted, I wanted to give Ronessa some,
[22:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: rationale as for why she's behaving in this way, but it's truly just like you have the power but you can get out at this anytime, you can leave.
[22:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Dre is not going to leave.
[22:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So if you want this to end and it, but she doesn't want this villain edit, but also you're on TV.
[22:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So if you're trying to battle with your sexuality, being on TV, I'm not sure is the best way to do that.
[22:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, Necesses says they will both stay in this cycle, but they are that they are both exhausted
[22:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, not both, it's you.
[22:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And Jaya likes y'all just the way you are.
[22:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So then, that's it.
[22:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's how we ends.
[22:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I feel like lately, their sessions are ending abruptly.
[22:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's not like I know what a better way to end it is.
[22:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But it's like, we get deep into something and then that music comes up and then that's it.
[22:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, oh, we're done.
[22:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Um, we see them at home.
[22:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, we see Dre are doing laundry, cooking, and doing all the things, and the music is playing in the background, it's like a page for masks.
[23:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The lyrics are like, I could be someone else.
[23:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You say I drag you down.
[23:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't want to feel like this.
[23:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I feel like shit.
[23:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I'm like play it again for Dre.
[23:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Play it again.
[23:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay.
[23:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm going to take a quick break and I'll be right back.
[23:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: All right.
[23:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We are back with Sienna and Chris.
[23:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How did you feel?
[23:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It was a Sienna focused episode.
[23:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I have words, but I'll let you continue.
[23:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, okay.
[23:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So on a shares with Virginia, how Sienna has shared, how she makes the choice not to be bitter, basically she chooses joy.
[23:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But what she calls choosing joy is like having no grief and
[23:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: her terror with Chris is whatever the transgression means to her will float her with grief so she tries not to like engage or think about it too much.
[24:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So now we're back in therapy and Chris says that they have tricky stuff this week.
[24:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They've worked through it together.
[24:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Sienna says they connected physically and they were cuddling.
[24:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I didn't know if that meant sex or just cuddling.
[24:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How did you interpret it?
[24:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I mean, and these two aren't shy about, you know, when they do it, they say the effort.
[24:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I don't know why we're being cagey and delicate now.
[24:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I'm gonna say that there was just the cuddling because if they did more, they have no problem saying that.
[24:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, I wasn't clear, like you and I was just like, why are you dancing around these?
[24:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But yeah,
[24:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So they connected physically and then they were cuddling.
[24:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then she suddenly had the thoughts, they came back like, why, why did you need this from somewhere else?
[24:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is so nice.
[24:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And when Orner was like, okay, explain stuff.
[24:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She says like the stuff in here, she doesn't like the connections.
[24:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: When she comes here, she doesn't like that feeling when Orner makes her explain stuff.
[25:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like the feeling of not being controlled, reminds her of when she was raped violently when she was 14.
[25:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I wasn't ready guys.
[25:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm sorry, I should have said a trigger more warning.
[25:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Also, trigger warning, because she is going to talk about her rape.
[25:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And you can skip past it a few minutes out, but I will be explaining what she said in her session when or not asked.
[25:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But, oh, sorry, you were about to say something?
[25:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Oh, no, I was like, we didn't get a trigger warning.
[25:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This just came out of nowhere.
[25:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's it's big.
[25:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's big.
[25:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah.
[25:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Um, she says that when it happened to her, it felt like
[25:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Um, she was violated.
[25:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He did violate, violate her.
[25:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she has spent years running from that incident.
[25:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And on her as her, if she is comfortable talking about it, she says that she was at a party and was very drunk.
[26:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And this guy tries to make up with her.
[26:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she had gone to a room just to lay down and this guy comes in.
[26:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he had dead shark eyes.
[26:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If you guys remember the last time we heard it, was when she was talking about her husband, Chris.
[26:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: and when he gets into that mode and she realized what was going to happen and just I yelling and screaming and she just has snapshots of being held down her head being banged on the nightstand and just being grabbed from the door.
[26:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Her friends were still there and when she came out she just ran to them and said didn't you hear me screaming and they left and like oh my god you saw it and then she told
[26:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then after she told them, all they, oh, she kind of got was like, are you okay?
[26:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Is everything okay?
[26:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, you know, I'm so sorry, but they did not go to the police because she said it was just a culture where you did not go to the police.
[26:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she says that she can be removed from it but when she comes to therapy, it doesn't feel like she sees it like a painting.
[27:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, oh, that painting that's over there and it's so abstract.
[27:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she says she doesn't feel like,
[27:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: a painting anymore whenever she's in Orna's office, like she recognizes that it's actually her and she was actually a kid.
[27:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she just kind of wonders why she ever thought that it was her fault.
[27:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she says that's why she hates coming here because she's reminded that she doesn't have the power to make things okay all the time and it makes her mad and it makes her sad.
[27:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she's kind of tearing up and Chris is crying at this point.
[27:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But he is comforting her.
[27:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The partner is just like sobbing in the partner, the other partner is just staring at their partner, but he is comforting her and I do think I know you don't like Chris, but I think that's what I do like about them is that with them, I can actually still see the love between them.
[27:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I am so shocked because I think she said that she was 14 when this happened.
[28:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: and to be in 14, especially with all the stuff that she had going on with her being by racial.
[28:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So on top of that, you have to deal with this very violent way.
[28:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So she had to deal with a lot as a kid and she repressed a lot as a kid.
[28:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And that is so much and it's so wild and I can see why Chris would, I guess I wanted Chris and you're right, he did pattern on the shoulder,
[28:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: he does love her.
[28:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I guess I just wanted him to come at her with the same level of care and comfort that she comes at him.
[28:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like I kind of wanted her to put her head in his lap and for him to rub her head and like I just wanted that same level of care that she gives to him like even when he tells his stories and she'll be like oh well that's why you do this or this is why this happens
[29:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: it's so powerful for you.
[29:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I didn't realize it was so strong.
[29:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I want to give him credit, but I just wanted him to do more.
[29:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like this lady is the, I put post-its of joy around my house or in my office and I highlight things and I'm just joy.
[29:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And for her to say this very crazy thing and for him to just pattern on the shoulder and go over there, versus him like,
[29:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: grabbing her and hugging her and kissing her and I just wanted him to do more, but that may just be be in my feelings towards him.
[29:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I understand, but for me, we're all different people.
[29:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's what he requires.
[29:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Um, it's how she shows affection because even at that time, who's to say, like, her just hugging on him or whatever, is that what, is that what he wants?
[29:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, he does the lap thing.
[29:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's a thing that they've always done.
[29:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Um, and so I'm giving, not grace, but I, I'm putting that into consideration.
[30:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That there are two different people because in some way, we could see him comforting her and doing all of that and we'll interpret that as him taking her moment again.
[30:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I was waiting for that because there was a time when before we went to him and asked him how he felt like he started moving his mouth but then he stopped himself.
[30:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like I was waiting for him to start crying or something that was going to take it away.
[30:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I will give him credit that he did not steal this moment from her.
[30:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I give him a little bit of credit for that.
[30:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then the other thing is, it's new to us.
[30:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's not new to them.
[30:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He says it hasn't been discussed this way before, but he is aware of it.
[30:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So how you react, you know, would not exactly be the same because he knows of it and I don't know what they've been through with it.
[30:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So for me, I was, I'd rather that he let her have,
[31:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: her moment in therapy because we rarely get to see her, get to express it and say all the things in the presence of a professional in that way.
[31:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So you're so sweet, you're a kind, sweet person, tame, I'm a terrible, terrible being.
[31:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: no you're not.
[31:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, okay.
[31:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, yes, she says, well, I think she said she's have a lot of rage about it that she used to like, you see and I truly became a different person when she talked about it like she's have a lot of
[31:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: raid that she had fantasies about murdering him, that she wanted him to feel them, making feel the way that she felt and it was almost like a guilty pleasure thinking about like, you know, bashing his head in and just, you know, just giving him that pain and he used to make her feel good to feel that.
[31:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Do you know what it reminded me of?
[32:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: probably Chris last week when he was talking about the violence towards his mom.
[32:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's what it exactly reminded me of exactly that's exactly what it was the same way that he was talking about he just said okay let's go we can do it you're talking about it let's be about it and he was like he used to making feel so good so that was you know I was just like wow they still found each other in that pain.
[32:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: or a place.
[32:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she says that he takes up so much space.
[32:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They even, you know, that constant state of positivity that he can be exhausting.
[32:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm like, guys, I feel vindicated.
[32:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I tell y'all all the time.
[32:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Toxic positivity.
[32:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Not good.
[32:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I tell you did it.
[32:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You did it.
[32:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, or to ask Chris how he's doing, and that's when he mentions that they've talked about it before, but not like this, and, you know, he just feels bad, and you can see his face.
[32:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He was just heartbroken, his face just read like, heartbroken.
[32:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Then he says, like, this is a big connection, because Sienna has talked about all the different connections, since they say coming to therapy and her naming it.
[33:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Doesn't feel good, but he is glad that she didn't name it and now he can see how her dead shark eyes and Him turning to anger probably hurt her so bad in ways that he didn't understand That he oh, these had not understand but like he didn't let himself understand how it betrayed her trust And he knows he would never do that again, and he's so fucking sorry He wishes he could take it back and she's like me to
[33:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I like that girl.
[33:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She was like me too.
[33:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She says, well, this is life and owner is like, no, don't do that because this is what happens when you repress stuff and you dissociate from it.
[33:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like if you don't process your stuff, it haunts you and it colors what you do and it's playing out between the two of you because that's the closest person to you and it, you know, plays out with that person and she does want to point out that cheating is not rape.
[34:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's a door that just opens her deep injury.
[34:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's, yeah, but I don't know.
[34:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't, I don't, I don't, that association of cheating not being raped is, was tough for me.
[34:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: There was something about it that just really, really rubbed me the wrong way.
[34:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Because it, in terms of, physically, no, but in terms of the perception for her, yeah, like why would you take that away from her?
[34:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, so I didn't like that.
[34:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's true.
[34:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't it's so tricky that even I don't want to step into that because I understand that both are a violation.
[34:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I don't know if Orner is just trying to say.
[34:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's not equitable, but it's also like, are you, can you say that on her behalf?
[35:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Is that what you mean here?
[35:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[35:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But I think that the thread between the two for Sienna is the dead shark eye.
[35:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So like, even though the act is not the same,
[35:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: equivalency that she's made between her perception of how she's being approached is the same.
[35:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so I don't know.
[35:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think what is so
[35:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Surprising to me is that if this is a connection to dead shark eyes when he turns to anger, he becomes a different person, how has she been able to stay in it for this long without being re-traumatized over and over and over again considering he had no idea.
[35:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And we are on year 13.
[35:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, I'm very surprised, but you know, they made it through.
[35:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay.
[36:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And we're back, that was heavy.
[36:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, so it just reminds me like how much our brains do to protect us.
[36:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And that's all like I'm thinking about what Sienna was that.
[36:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Her brain is trying so hard to protect her.
[36:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Her feelings are like, nope, we're doing this.
[36:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Mm-hmm.
[36:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That didn't go through it to get through it.
[36:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, Marjorie and Jason, they are my second least favorite.
[36:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They're not great.
[36:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just don't, I don't even know how they function.
[36:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They seem to just not fundamentally like each other.
[36:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Right.
[36:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And then they're like, not, there's not one issue.
[36:45] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like there's always,
[36:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, they come back with a new thing every week where it's like, well, what's the through line between all of these issues that you guys are having?
[36:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I think what you said is absolutely right, y'all just don't like you, Dr. Yeah, because what do you want to solve?
[37:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Do you even want to be together or is it too much work to separate at this point?
[37:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, and in the, yeah, I don't know.
[37:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I just, I don't, what does there to say?
[37:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like you guys aren't, you don't touch, you don't speak lovingly about each other, you don't seem to want to support each other.
[37:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You're not on each other side and it's like all of the things that make a couple of a couple of y'all don't have.
[37:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So why are we here?
[37:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And the way it sounds, I feel like her kids don't even like him, but anyways,
[37:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So Jason has to live in a house where only he's son kind of likes him.
[37:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So that's uncomfortable.
[37:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Why would you do that?
[37:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, and is that if we I think we we deserve it.
[37:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's their son together, but the other daughter is okay.
[37:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, yeah, she had a kid from the previous marriage and they have a nine-year-old together But then so honest God you're gonna talk about this later, but then there's another kid that we didn't know about
[38:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, all right.
[38:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I'm confused.
[38:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So Arna says that Jason has incredible self-discipline, and he can speak to it beautifully on how it helped him, but that also makes him impulsive and always in the tug of war.
[38:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And now we're back to therapy.
[38:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And Marjorie says that she has never been as angry as she was last week and just that he talking to him now.
[38:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm distracted.
[38:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm staring at Arna's hair.
[38:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, mama, what's going on?
[38:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Can we get a wash?
[38:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: upon a brush, something.
[38:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What's happening?
[38:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You roll out a bed today, like stop it.
[38:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So it has the hates, whatever those little braid dreadlock things she has.
[38:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: My husband hates that.
[38:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Her color for and 30 braids together, the back.
[38:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So.
[38:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She said she was a work and then she got a random text message from Jason saying he's pulling Ryan their son out of school that he just decides he's not going to do the drive for those who don't remember at the very very beginning Marjorie shared that they were moving and they've now done the move and they were still going to go to their school which is 80 minutes each way which was insane then and insane now.
[39:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So he called the other school and asked them, is there a space for Ryan, they're like, yeah, there's a space in all that.
[39:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Immediately I was like, wait, does Jason work?
[39:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We find out later that he does work, but I was like, don't ask me why, he just looks unemployed, but that was the head, it's the head tattoos.
[39:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Even it wasn't the head tattoos because I'm sure I could do otherwise he just looks unemployed, don't ask me to explain.
[39:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was just being a judge of Jigina, but then he was like,
[39:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He also, and on top of everything else and pulling out their kid, he's like, I emailed your mom.
[39:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she said, Vatican, because she was in the meeting, she couldn't respond.
[39:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she's just like, she read that and she's like, oh my God, my mom is going to read that and not want to talk to her or come to their house.
[40:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Again, and, or I was like, that would be your mom's response.
[40:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she says, I know she would.
[40:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's what she would do.
[40:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm pissed off all over again, because her mom sounds like a piece of work.
[40:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And somehow, she just wants her mom's approval.
[40:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And let her get away with her shitty behavior.
[40:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, over, over her husband, which is a problem.
[40:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like, she wants her mom's approval so bad.
[40:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: She wants her mom and the woman that her husband's like, this is fake.
[40:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So your husband that's at level is trying to protect you, but you're still choosing the thing that he's trying to protect you from.
[40:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That would piss me off too.
[40:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, all the people in the house, don't make him feel welcome and he's not feeling welcome in his own house.
[40:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then there's somebody who does not live in the house who still has a priority over him.
[40:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: in the house like it's too much.
[40:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she said she immediately had her oldest daughter who lives with her mom.
[41:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's the person that the I guess the grandma came to pick up.
[41:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Remember when they came and wouldn't talk to Ryan so she came to pick her up.
[41:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it was Haley or somebody, and she told her, go look at your mom's phone, check if Jason emailed her, and I'm like, they've never told us why she lives with her, but also this is insane to involve your child.
[41:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know how old she is, but insane.
[41:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Then she says, mom, you're so lucky I intercepted this.
[41:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: and then she deleted it and then blocked his email, I am livid at this point.
[41:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm very protective about kids, like whatever happens with adults, you chose it, that's fine.
[41:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But when you involve kids, this is annoying because this shows how much it does not respect Jason, because now you're revolving the child and now he, the kid feels like, yeah, I can block Jason.
[41:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Mom doesn't even like me, why would he have any authority to tell her anything anyways?
[42:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, now you've got another person on against him.
[42:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like it sounds like she might have already been there, but yeah.
[42:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So this is the yeah, Marjorie.
[42:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, like let this man go.
[42:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like you're not even doing anything to help the situation.
[42:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Everything you're doing is actively against him.
[42:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, Warner asks about her mom and says, talk to me about your mom and her existence in your marriage.
[42:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she says, well, she doesn't like what Jason has done in the past.
[42:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They're not currently going to tell us what Jason has done in the past, but they had a big fight.
[42:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that's why she didn't talk to her mom for a few years.
[42:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, I mean, I'll give her credit.
[42:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I guess she chose Jason and didn't talk to her mom, but it also feels like she didn't like that she chose Jason.
[42:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she's like, that wasn't worth it, so I'm not going to do it again.
[42:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And she probably made Jason pay for it every day.
[42:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: She probably reminded them every day.
[42:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I chose you over my mom.
[42:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I chose you over my mom.
[42:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And now you made me fat.
[43:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That, that, that, that, that, that, that, like I'm sure this was it's like I chose I chose you and I love you and I chose you and it's going to be us against the world.
[43:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm sure she reminded him every day of what she's going without because of him.
[43:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You're right.
[43:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm glad that, you know, her mom's still alive because let's say something happened
[43:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They weren't speaking, that's it for Jason.
[43:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He's never going to hear the end of it.
[43:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You're just a V.A.
[43:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she says now that they're talking, she doesn't need him to muddy the water as, and I'm like, so you're just going to keep taking whatever it is that, you know, she gives to you.
[43:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So honor is like, where do she get her power?
[43:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she's like, she's paying for their school.
[43:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like Jason, my guy.
[43:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: there's a slip in here there's a slip in here guys well that's what he's trying to do right we draw him and put him in his group but also don't say all that if she's paying for your son school like of course that gives her power
[44:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So Orna says, why did you reach out to the mom and not Marjorie?
[44:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he was like, I did.
[44:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She just didn't pick up.
[44:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she's like, I was in the meeting.
[44:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, I couldn't do anything.
[44:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So he says like, when he goes to work, like, he has some time before work.
[44:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He just sits there.
[44:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he was just thinking about it.
[44:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he was like, oh, I got to do this.
[44:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he just called.
[44:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And there was room for Ryan in the second grade.
[44:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he was just thinking about how,
[44:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: her mom over steps, her boundaries, he basically went from zero to a thousand on there.
[44:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So he did try calling her first, she didn't pick up, and he just felt like he had to get it done before he goes into work, and he just felt like, so, um, order was like, that was impulsive, and Marcher was like, what did you say?
[44:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Say it again, impulsive, right?
[44:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm like, oh,
[44:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, don't keep her anymore.
[44:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yes, no, no, no, and now she's going to stay that to Jason every time.
[44:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I told you you're in the polls, if you're in the polls, if you're in the polls, if you're in the polls, if you're in the polls talking, oh, no, you just gave her ammo.
[45:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So then he says he felt like he had no choice that he had communicated with her, trying to give her all the reasons why the kids should switch schools.
[45:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But every time he talks to her, he's met with dismissal.
[45:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So if he doesn't step up and make the change himself, it's never going to get done.
[45:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: On his just fixator and the fact like, okay, you did have a choice.
[45:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He doesn't mean you have a choice.
[45:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It just meant you had different opinions and you kind of have to negotiate.
[45:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he's just on a tangent.
[45:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, when Jason gets started, you can't stop him.
[45:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He's like, he doesn't know how to be received by her.
[45:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: When he's expressing his heart out about a situation, he doesn't feel like knowledge or respected.
[45:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He feels dismissed, rejected and almost like he
[45:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: uh... margarie and his stepdaughter her daughter have a sign language that he picks up on that they think they can see that the ruler eyes they shrugged their shoulders and this is what i mean like this breed's disrespect why you in cahoots with your daughter if you don't like the man said in free and gold were tacting with your daughter and be happy
[46:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then Orner is like, what do you have to say about that?
[46:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then she justifies it and by saying like, I mean, yeah, usually when he's saying something ridiculous and he's like, but it's not ridiculous to me.
[46:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, it's my true feelings.
[46:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And, uh, I'm so mad, Jan.
[46:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I just, well, I did part of me was like, because I'm trying not to give Jason too much because
[46:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: is the stuff that he's saying crazy, his magas stuff, because yes, absolutely we're rolling our eyes at this.
[46:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But if it's just I'm saying my opinion and I get shut down because all of you guys don't like me, then that's a very different thing.
[46:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so, yes, I think whatever I think Jason in therapy gets hurt in a way that he doesn't get hurt at home, which is why he, he kind of blurtz and brambles on because he's like, I've been holding this and I've got to get it out because nobody else is listening to me anywhere any other place.
[46:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, the man said he didn't want animals and Marjorie is like, you know what, I'm gonna get all the animals What did they have like seven?
[47:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, I don't want the kids to drive 80 minutes to school and back.
[47:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's like, what does that mean?
[47:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm gonna do it anyways.
[47:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't want my son to experience being rejected by his grandma.
[47:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know.
[47:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She loves him.
[47:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She held him at the park.
[47:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Here's a picture one time.
[47:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So or even when Jason loses weight.
[47:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: She's like, oh, you're so annoying knock it off.
[47:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like even when he does something good He gets no credit from his wife.
[47:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: How dare you be happy.
[47:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, yeah, it was featured in his local paper apparently He's one of those who says oh, I reject B. Maga.
[47:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm not Maga anymore Yeah, I saw that came across my TikTok fingered and I was like, hmm, okay Sure, so um
[47:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm disappointed when Ornes switches.
[47:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: to Marjorie and says, Marjorie, so what do you need to hear from Jason?
[47:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[47:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Let's go back.
[47:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Let's find out why does your mother, like, yes, you're happy that you're talking to your mother again, but at what cost?
[47:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like are you okay with her just having that much power over you, that you are willing to not listen to your husband and let her get away with things, because now it seems to be a pattern, but she's like, what do you need to hear from Jason?
[48:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Okay, and let's not even get into the mom stuff because that's gonna give her a whole snowball of a story and let's like look the core of this is why don't you let your husband why aren't you defending him?
[48:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Why in every situation in your life that you've brought to me for this last seven weeks?
[48:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Have you not once stood up for him?
[48:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like that's the core for me.
[48:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm not ornamented But yeah, just been dismissive of him.
[48:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes.
[48:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, and then she says, I need him to apologize and acknowledge he was overstepping.
[48:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, he does apologize.
[48:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Actually, he really does apologize.
[48:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm actually surprised.
[48:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And Arnold just tells him, like, at the core, they each don't hear each other or take what the other says seriously.
[48:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And, like, yes, since they won, they don't know what each other stands for.
[49:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They don't know what the other wants.
[49:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm just, I
[49:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Man, people are really comfortable in their discomfort and are there in happiness and put it that way.
[49:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And they're just going to stay there regardless, you know?
[49:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then we segue to be role of couples arguing.
[49:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I noticed that.
[49:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I was like, oh, do these people have to sign off a waiver like they're being recorded and they're like, hey, we just noticed you arguing.
[49:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We taped it could you sign off on this because we're going to use this for our TV show.
[49:29] \[UNKNOWN\]: It's like, we did this.
[49:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Maybe they are paid actors too.
[49:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Who knows?
[49:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They saved the quote unquote best for last with Shay and Clinton.
[49:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So it's a four couple episodes.
[49:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Orna is telling Virginia that Clinton's investment in the discord community offers a remedy for a lifetime of being misunderstood.
[49:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: For Shay, it's been a lot about being cheated on and hiding.
[49:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she feels like all the attention is towards the group.
[50:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she has lost him as a partner.
[50:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She wanted the open relationship, but when Clinton said and joined the open relationship, then suddenly she didn't want it anymore.
[50:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's much like her mom, whether she wants to admit it or not, but she has a business power trip.
[50:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: She wants to be in control.
[50:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Virginia says that she can't bear when people break up in your office and they didn't know they were going to.
[50:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I said, ooh, is this a foreshadowing?
[50:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm going to go for it, but ooh, I was like, thanks Virginia for emotionally preparing me for what's going to happen next.
[50:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah.
[50:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Then she comes in.
[50:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: and then she actually pulls the chair away because the chairs are like, excited by side.
[50:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She pulls it away and gets on her phone.
[50:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Clinton comes in afterwards.
[50:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's on her phone.
[50:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They don't speak, and I'm like, ooh, baby.
[51:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They go in, she ate waste no time.
[51:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it's like, did you have someone over a Monday?
[51:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He's like, no, you sent them a car, no.
[51:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And you sent them home a Monday.
[51:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: No, he says, no, all high pitched.
[51:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she keeps saying, you sure about that.
[51:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You sure about that.
[51:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He's like, no, man, I did not know.
[51:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then he says, whatever, man, you spying on me, my nigga got dead.
[51:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[51:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I know, I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
[51:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: almost like he did not say it.
[51:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was like, whoa, but I'm just like the thing is Clinton can't control himself.
[51:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He just once he loses it, once he gets, you know, triggered, he just goes off and he just can't control himself.
[52:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I don't even know if he realizes that he said it.
[52:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: No, but also like he also you know we talk about him being triggered it's like it's also you being caught You give real real upset when you're caught like it would be a lot probably Feel a lot better for your emotions if you just admit that you were wrong because if she is if not if not anything She's a detective and she's gonna bring receipt so just just be like yep, I did that and call it a day
[52:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's not as a dexter, she's a spy, she's tracking that man.
[52:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She says, if you care about the relationship, you wouldn't be acting this way.
[52:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And, you know, he's already heightened level.
[52:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Clinton is like, I mean, I care.
[52:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, he was like, I cared.
[52:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And, father relationship, then she goes, oh, past tense, that's okay.
[52:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You had it right the first time, I get it.
[52:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he was like, shut the fuck up, man, you frustrate me.
[53:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, oh, God.
[53:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: caught.
[53:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just caught, but also you have got to regularly.
[53:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It is not okay to talk to people this way or to just say the things that you want to like luckily you're in a therapist office with camera people and other people but it's not okay like I don't I mean I don't know if that he can't help it but this is why I think you know that question when we first start started covering the season
[53:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: For this, you know, because once he gets in that mood that like he just takes a while to bring him down and it's like you can't get anything done because he's so frustrated and he has to get it out.
[53:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, honor is like, okay guys, how would you like to walk out of here today?
[53:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he's like, I'm a couple of separation.
[53:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She is like, we are past that that would have happened a long time ago.
[53:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, yeah, that would have happened a long time ago, but why didn't you break up?
[53:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: then right right what we doing what you say so honest says okay so you want to break up
[54:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she's like, I don't think there's anything left.
[54:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And Clinton was like, yeah, it gets to a point where there's only so much you can take when you get a two-hour text barrage of insults, cursing you out, threatening you, and she is like, no, I have receipts, like you're lying to me, you have other people, and I don't know why we are not acknowledging that she is tracking this dude, and is that okay?
[54:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I don't know, is she tracking him or is he just sloppy and they are they on a shared phone plan where they where he can she can see all of his stuff because she seems to be financially involved in his life or and she seems to be involved in intricacies of his life.
[54:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I don't know if she's necessarily spying or he's just sloppy.
[54:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I went through it like yeah, she is.
[54:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I know so it's she's she's she's the control freak.
[54:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's saying it like everyone's let you down, but here's the thing and everything.
[55:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: No, I don't want to get go there.
[55:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was going to say like in relationship, right?
[55:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Whenever there's a breakup, you have to take a count and just like what part did I play?
[55:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was what why I held myself back was I was going to say whatever there's an encounter.
[55:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You have to look at it and say, what part did I clean this?
[55:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But that's a tricky thing to say because I'm not trying to imply, like, you know, if something happens and it's like, oh, it was my fault.
[55:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that's why I was violated.
[55:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That is by no means what I mean.
[55:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just mean like in a relationship when something happens, like with Shay, where she's been through this, what like this relationship with Clinton, right?
[55:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If they break up, what is her story going to be?
[55:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Are you going to acknowledge that you were kind of controlling
[55:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: and wanted him to do everything you did or you're just going to say, he hurt me, he cheated on me and then you take no accountability of what part you played in this.
[55:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Does that make sense?
[55:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, but I think that's going to be her story is that she did everything for him.
[55:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's the look what you brought to my table.
[55:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I did this for you.
[56:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I did this for you.
[56:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I did this for you and you didn't bring me anything.
[56:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: No, I don't I don't think in her story when she retells this.
[56:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's going to be I contributed to this.
[56:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's going to be I did everything
[56:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So that's what I'm saying is like that's where she's lacking in this thing.
[56:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So he says, why are you back channeling?
[56:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know what that means.
[56:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What does back channeling mean?
[56:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I mean, I don't know if he's trying to say back tracking, but also I, to your point, I don't know what you're talking about because she's been pretty much going forward in everything that she's saying.
[56:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like these are the steps and this is the problems.
[56:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm not sure.
[56:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, we both don't know what back channel he means.
[56:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she says, well, why are you lying?
[56:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Then he was like, did you see if she goes back again?
[56:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Did you sleep with someone a Monday?
[56:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He's like, no.
[56:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then the phone is back up guys, but she didn't learn.
[56:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She still has no screenshots.
[56:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's still scrolling and scrolling and trying to figure out where the receipts are.
[57:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So he finally says,
[57:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I may have sent them there, but then they're going back and forth and Orner is just letting them fight like she was quiet for a long time.
[57:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then Orner says, OK, let's pause.
[57:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Let's pretend because she was like, you're not even my friend.
[57:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And Clinton says, like, you are so convinced I'm trying to fuck you.
[57:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, fuck you over, not like, have sex.
[57:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And you're always convinced that someone's trying to hurt you.
[57:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she says, you literally wrote in the message, if you want to get fucked, you can.
[57:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I know Clinton is standing up now and he is up and moving.
[57:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He's not on the chair.
[57:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she tells him to sit down or not tells him to sit down and he sits on the floor.
[57:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's not on the floor.
[57:45] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I was like, oh, like a kindergarten girl.
[57:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then Orner says, okay, let's step into each other's shoes.
[57:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And you tell me what's upsetting her, like as your friends, you know, each other very well, speak from that point of view.
[58:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So he says, like, she's scared.
[58:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She feels abandoned.
[58:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she feels like she was getting pushed away.
[58:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she also feels betrayed.
[58:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She is nutting vigorously, like yes.
[58:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She says, then Orner says, you, your turn.
[58:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What do you think he's feeling?
[58:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She says he feels betrayed as well that she went behind his back to find information that he would never have offered, she had to throw in her dig and that he feels accused and that he feels shameful.
[58:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she says I understand him.
[58:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We're just in two different spaces.
[58:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He is living out his youth.
[58:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He has never had that freedom.
[58:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I came in as some savior.
[58:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And now he feels like I'm
[58:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: and he says some things aren't compatible in their lives anymore.
[58:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That she says things like, oh, if you just listen to me, your life will go easy and his mom used to say that to him all the time.
[58:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He says, however, that doesn't excuse the thing that I did.
[59:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think that's the thing that's frustrating about Clinton is like, he does all these things, but he immediately goes, I understand, I know why it is, but hindsight is 2020, I guess.
[59:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: For him, I'm going to do it anyway.
[59:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I do, I really, really like to this technique that she had
[59:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: When these two are just going at each other and talking about their hurt in their pain, you're never gonna get anywhere because it's gonna be like, well, you did this and I did this, so having them talk about or vocalize what the other person is feeling, I think was a really good approach and it brought down the, it didn't bring down the temperature of the room, but it kind of changed it from being this tip for tat to like, what do you wanna do with this?
[59:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And what do you see from the other person?
[59:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I like that a lot.
[59:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I do think it burnt down to temperature a lot because it's softened them a little bit because you have to think about it like from this person in the good times because it's a journey to get to know someone and you have to go through things together to know that person.
[59:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I do think he kind of like um brought it down because even Clinton's you know tempo was like burnt down from when he was high pitched and
[1:00:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Shrilling, shrilling, and just speaking.
[1:00:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I think they captured each other pretty well.
[1:00:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like, it showed that they do know each other well because what they each said about each other was very true.
[1:00:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I really like this activity.
[1:00:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm annoyed that it took us as long to get here.
[1:00:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But I like the accent.
[1:00:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, I think to give space to like, if you're angry, get it out.
[1:00:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If there's the only place that you can, you might as well get it out because, you know, sometimes you gotta be petty.
[1:00:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You can always be like nice and friendly.
[1:00:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Sure.
[1:00:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, aren't I translates that?
[1:00:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay.
[1:00:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, what I'm understanding is like, you hold things that Shay says to high regard and maybe too much and he was like, yes, I do.
[1:00:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he feels like the only way to have freedom is on the slide.
[1:00:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he says, like, yeah, I just feel like I have to do things or things.
[1:00:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: do it on my own.
[1:00:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She wrote her eyes on him.
[1:00:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She finally breaks down crying and says like he promised he wouldn't treat me like this and here he is and she says she found the love that she grew up with that people say they love you and then they mistreat you and her whole life she has been searching for love and she thought this was different and I think you you know
[1:01:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm not saying I'm right, but I think he lays credence to you know what I was talking about last week about Elizabeth Gilbert's like when you're addicted to love and you do all these things and she's like, oh, I did this for you.
[1:01:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I went wherever for you, but you're looking for that.
[1:01:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: reciprocation of them just being indebted to you, which in its way it's not healthy like you did find the love you grew up with because you were practicing love with the love you grew up with which was here.
[1:01:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The guy is scared of you whether he's going to voice it out or not because she thinks that she's being careful and she doesn't want to hurt him but Clinton has never actually come out and said.
[1:01:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, she knows everything better and she doesn't let me do stuff or whatever, but I think the closest when he when he said, like, you aren't going to sell it to your mom and she did not like that.
[1:02:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, she doesn't.
[1:02:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: She doesn't really expect comparison at all, but also I wonder, or what hit me when she said, I thought this relationship was different.
[1:02:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I wonder if she thought, oh, because she said, before that she used to date people that are more stable and more this and more that older stable, and then she picked somebody that was younger and less stable.
[1:02:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So is that what she thought was gonna be different?
[1:02:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: If she picked somebody that was gonna rely on her more that they would love her more, which is what you said.
[1:02:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So that's really the crux of this as you pick somebody that wasn't your equal thinking
[1:02:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know, not the upper hand, but give you, yeah, it is a upper hand because to me, this relationship besides her being a caretaker is her having the upper hand and feeling like she could control him.
[1:03:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm just an all that seven episodes in, Orner has not asked her for someone who's this is being your dating past.
[1:03:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Why did you, what was different about Clinton?
[1:03:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I, I, I just think it's an
[1:03:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Orna asked her to try to speak enough from anger, drawing on the friendship again, and just explaining how she feels, and she says it doesn't matter.
[1:03:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If he cared, he would have acted differently.
[1:03:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He's still just like, how can she think that I didn't care for her?
[1:03:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We've just, you know, reached across road, and we just have to separate before he gets even worse.
[1:03:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So she just said she doesn't want to be in a relationship, and Orna asked him to take a break, and, you know,
[1:03:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: take a breather and then come back next week to talk and owner just tells them like you know remember your friendship and in my brain I'm just like she's like just two more episodes guys we gotta get some episodes you can hang in there and then we could knock it out we all can break up for real and then that's it and then that was the end of the episode and then we did get a PSA for sexual violence that came up and that was it
[1:04:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I think one last thing about them, too, was that Shea had said something along the lines of like, I didn't think he would hurt me.
[1:04:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I didn't think he would ever hurt me.
[1:04:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And Ornes says, well, that's not, it doesn't work like that in relationship.
[1:04:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: People do hurt each other.
[1:04:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so I thought that was fair.
[1:04:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It is fair.
[1:04:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I think again, she was trying something different, like maybe if I had to up a hand, if I had to control.
[1:04:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And this is what happened?
[1:04:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So yeah.
[1:04:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay.
[1:04:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So now the episode we have two episodes left and we'll be wrapping up the season.
[1:04:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So hope you guys join us next week for the last two episodes.
[1:04:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And we'll see how all of this is gonna wrap up.
[1:04:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, a little part of me, do you think?
[1:04:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They're gonna come back and pull a drain and nest on us and say we just talked everything on and said stuff from scratch.
[1:04:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Fresh start, I hope not.
[1:05:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And actually, I kind of hope we get a wrap up of Draya and NASA that looks something like this.
[1:05:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Honestly, I don't, I don't want them together.
[1:05:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: One can only hope.
[1:05:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But, no.
[1:05:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They shant to team me for the last three episodes and then go to their secretaries.
[1:05:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it will be so ironic when we find out that Nessa is the one that actually cannot live without Rhea.
[1:05:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't think that's a surprise.
[1:05:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I think that's proven if she could.
[1:05:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: She would have left by now.
[1:05:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's true.
[1:05:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's true.
[1:05:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That is true.
[1:05:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So fascinating.
[1:05:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I love them.
[1:05:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, my screen.
[1:05:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Thank you for listening, Taint Talks everywhere, and we'll see you next time.
[1:05:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Bye guys, bye

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