# Dealers and Brokers in Proxy Wars: Exploring All Means Available

An episode of [Irregular Warfare Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1514636385), 17 Nov 2023, 58 min.

Audio: https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/ptbayf/5de8282033baf4-72953531_1598869_Vickers-Rauta-IWP.mp3

Be sure to visit the Irregular Warfare Initiative website to see all of the new articles, podcast episodes, and other content the IWI team is publishing! When two adversaries confront one another militarily, they are rarely the only participants. Either side might delegate portions of its war efforts to proxies, for example. But there are a wide range of other roles that intermediaries also play. This episode explores those roles and features a discussion with Dr. Michael G. Vickers, former US under secretary of defense for intelligence, and Dr. Vladimir Rauta, an associate professor at the University of Reading. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

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