# 370. Why Playing It Safe Is Killing Your Growth with Verne Harnish

An episode of [The Game Changing Attorney Podcast with Michael Mogill](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1504592760), 10 Jun 2025, 41 min.

Audio: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CVP1607020211.mp3?updated=1749474327

What if the real risk isn't taking bold action — but staying exactly where you are? In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, author, founder of Entrepreneurs' Organization (EO), and Founder & CEO of Scaling Up, Verne Harnish shares timeless insights on scaling a business, developing high-performing teams, and why most leaders fall short when they lose their edge. From navigating uncertainty to rediscovering founder-mode, Verne challenges the safe, conventional wisdom that holds organizations back — and offers a blueprint for playing bigger, leading smarter, and building companies that endure. Here's what you'll learn: • Why aggressive goals create more energy — and why incrementalism kills momentum • What it means to rediscover your company's "soul" — and how to lead from founder-mode • How to replace weak managers with true team captains who drive performance If you're playing not to lose, you're already falling behind — this episode is your call to play to win. ---- Show Notes: 00:00 - Introduction 06:00 - Betting on Yourself: The Sacrifices and Mindset of Entrepreneurs 09:19 - Thriving in Chaos: Why Optimism and Timing Matter 14:00 - The Power of Big, Audacious Goals (and Why Small Thinking Fails) 16:42 - Why Most Companies Plateau: The Mindset and Market Gap 20:41 - Rediscovering Founder Mode and the Soul of Your Business 26:46 - Building Teams That Don't Need Managers 31:15 - How AI Will Redefine Growth, Strategy, and Hiring 36:40 - Redefining Success: The Five F's That Really Matter ---- Links & Resources: Scaling Up by Verne Harnish Entrepreneurs' Organization (EO) Mastering the Rockefeller Habits by Verne Harnish Founder Mode by Paul Graham The Captain Class by Sam Walker ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O'Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: • 243. AMMA — Success Without Safety Nets: The Entrepreneurial Journey • 338. Will Ahmed — From Stress to Success: Optimizing the Entrepreneurial Journey • 196. AMMA — The 9 Sources of Entrepreneurial Advantage

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