# 'I didn’t do this for me': The AFL’s first openly queer player on coming out

An episode of [Good Weekend Talks](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1501054889), 25 Nov 2025, 54 min.

Audio: https://pdst.fm/e/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/88b564ea-a9a6-4751-910a-a5d800019396/938e5ca5-7771-4bc2-852a-ab8300272ea4/1695dd74-9645-4723-8a78-b3a00065571c/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=5249b1b2-6224-4d5a-b1d1-ab8300272f0a

In this episode, we talk to Mitch Brown. The retired AFL player recently came out as bisexual, making him the first (current or former) openly queer player in the league’s 129-year history. He describes growing up in country Victoria with his twin brother and fellow gifted athlete, Nathan, and how he made the move interstate when drafted by the West Coast Eagles in 2006. Brown played 94 games before retiring almost a decade later, having married professional netball player Shae Bolton-Brown, with whom he has two little boys. In conversation with Good Weekend deputy editor Konrad Marshall, he also talks about playing it straight in footy – and why he made the call to finally share his sexuality with the public. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:14] S1: Hi, I'm Konrad Marshall and from the Sydney Morning Herald
[0:16] S1: and The Age. Welcome to Good Weekend Talks, a magazine
[0:19] S1: for your ears, featuring in-depth conversations with fascinating people from
[0:23] S1: sport and politics, science and culture, business and beyond. Every week,
[0:28] S1: you can download new episodes in which top journalists from
[0:30] S1: across our newsrooms talk to compelling people about the definitive
[0:34] S1: stories of the day. On today's episode, we talk to
[0:37] S1: Mitch Brown. The 36 year old grew up in country
[0:40] S1: Victoria in Ballarat, where he was a gifted athlete along
[0:44] S1: with his twin brother Nathan. The pair went to Saint
[0:47] S1: Patrick's College, a so-called football factory that's produced an array
[0:50] S1: of AFL stars, including everyone from Daniel Rioli to Danny
[0:54] S1: Frawley and then, of course, the Brown Boys. Nathan was
[0:58] S1: taken by Collingwood with pick ten in the 2006 draft,
[1:01] S1: and Mitch was selected not long after with pick 16
[1:04] S1: by the West Coast Eagles. He moved to Perth, made
[1:07] S1: a career for himself and although hit hard by injury,
[1:10] S1: missing two entire seasons, he played 94 games before retiring
[1:14] S1: almost a decade later. Mitch was also married to professional
[1:18] S1: netball player Shae Bolton Brown, with whom he has two
[1:21] S1: little boys, and he might have remained among the ranks
[1:24] S1: of largely anonymous footy players until a decision he made
[1:27] S1: in August when he came out as bisexual, becoming the
[1:31] S1: first senior AFL player, current or retired to do so
[1:35] S1: in the 129 year history of the competition. He's here
[1:39] S1: today in the studio to talk about his life before
[1:41] S1: and after that big reveal and what comes next. Welcome, Mitch.
[1:46] S2: Thanks, Conrad. Well, it's it's like hearing you speak about
[1:52] S2: my life. It's still surreal. Um, you know, it's been
[1:57] S2: a big couple of months it's been since, you know,
[2:01] S2: the original interview where I did decide to announce to Australia,
[2:07] S2: the world, maybe. Yeah. That you know about my sexuality
[2:10] S2: to shine a spotlight on on, you know, safety and
[2:13] S2: inclusivity in sport and particularly for me, men's AFL competition. Um, yeah. Uh,
[2:20] S2: it's crazy. And I've been trying to ride the wave. And,
[2:25] S2: you know, part of it's a big thing for for
[2:29] S2: my life. You're like, if I wasn't a footballer, if
[2:33] S2: I didn't come out publicly or people weren't interested in it,
[2:37] S2: it coming out internally, even to my family, to my brother,
[2:40] S2: it's still a big thing for my own life as
[2:43] S2: as just a human. So like, even that in itself
[2:47] S2: is huge for me. And I'm dealing with all those emotions, um,
[2:50] S2: the different types of nuances with relationships, people with, you know,
[2:55] S2: that didn't know or have known me for a long time.
[2:58] S2: Like my twin brother. Yeah. Um, and then you got this.
[3:01] S2: This public side of it, and. Yeah, I chose to
[3:04] S2: to come out publicly, um, for a reason, and we
[3:07] S2: can touch on that. But, you know, it's been a big,
[3:11] S2: yeah phase, you know, post interview. And not many people
[3:15] S2: know that I'm working full time as well.
[3:17] S1: Yeah. Okay.
[3:18] S2: Normal programming.
[3:19] S1: Are you up to.
[3:19] S2: I got I got two kids. Um, yeah. I work
[3:22] S2: in a consulting job, and, um, they've been amazing to.
[3:26] S2: To balance. I guess it's not this responsibility. No one
[3:31] S2: has ever put an obligation onto me to. To continue
[3:36] S2: to share my story or continue to advocate for the
[3:40] S2: queer community or more specifically, safety inclusivity within men's sports
[3:45] S2: or these hyper hyper masculine environments. But in saying this, like,
[3:50] S2: I feel like I have this unique opportunity. That's a good.
[3:53] S1: Way to look at it, an opportunity rather than a
[3:55] S1: responsibility or an obligation.
[3:57] S2: Yeah. At this opportunity. Because right now I am the
[4:02] S2: only public bisexual, gay, gay man or current former footballer
[4:09] S2: that you know is speaking out that has had that
[4:13] S2: perspective of playing in the AFL men's competition as a professional.
[4:18] S2: So with that, I don't know whether, you know, I
[4:23] S2: remember Gill McLaughlin described the former CEO of the AFL,
[4:26] S2: described it as a burden for this person. Um, you know,
[4:30] S2: whether that's a burden for me or a gift to
[4:33] S2: be able to continue to share my story or to talk.
[4:38] S2: I feel that whilst people are listening, in particular people
[4:42] S2: that may not have listened before, um, to a queer
[4:45] S2: man or someone in the queer community, that I do
[4:51] S2: have this responsibility and obligation as a custodian, and I
[4:56] S2: do a lot of work in the consulting world with
[4:57] S2: First Nations people. And, and, um, I really connect with this,
[5:01] S2: this word or this, this, um, this notion around custodianship.
[5:05] S2: And for me right now, my obligation to this space
[5:11] S2: and the space of providing a safe and inclusive space
[5:14] S2: for the next person is to make it a little
[5:17] S2: bit better for them. And and that's what custodianship is
[5:20] S2: all about. And that's, you know, that's the, the mentality,
[5:24] S2: I guess, you know, in this next little phase, um,
[5:28] S2: that I'm going to adopt and, and really believe and
[5:31] S2: buy into.
[5:32] S1: Blunt question. Big question may be hard to answer. Question
[5:37] S1: why do you think you're the first. Like why do
[5:40] S1: you think it took more than a century for any
[5:43] S1: professional AFL player, um, to share this kind of news
[5:47] S1: with the world?
[5:49] S2: It's a great question, Conrad, and like, I have had
[5:52] S2: time to think about this and, Mind you, like when
[5:56] S2: when I was playing the conversation around who would be
[6:00] S2: the first person or, you know, in the locker rooms,
[6:03] S2: like who is it? Who is actually is that person
[6:05] S2: and which is quite toxic in itself. But like, what
[6:09] S2: would the reaction be and why? We would talk about
[6:11] S2: it quite often and it would come up in the
[6:13] S2: media time and time and you'd talk about it. So
[6:16] S2: I have had some time to think about this. And
[6:19] S2: Australian rules football is quite unique in itself. It's, you know,
[6:23] S2: it's it's played in different parts of the world but
[6:26] S2: is uniquely Australian and it is, if you like, in
[6:30] S2: its own silo and it's quite protected. And I think
[6:36] S2: that if you like it or not, the Aussie Rules
[6:41] S2: game is, is embedded into our, you know, the Australian
[6:44] S2: psyche and culture. And, you know, it's not just this
[6:49] S2: sporting thing, it sits in its own place in our
[6:52] S2: society and it has so much influence over a lot
[6:56] S2: of people. And because for so long, what is it
[7:00] S2: like 100 and I mean 120 years since the, you know,
[7:04] S2: it was only a solely a men's competition professionally and
[7:07] S2: then ten seasons ago. That's rough numbers, but it would
[7:10] S2: be around that. It's only been a men's competition and
[7:13] S2: it's been that sacred. You know, you know that that
[7:17] S2: representation of the Australian man. And I think it's it's
[7:22] S2: built this environment where if you like it or not,
[7:28] S2: it's just it's not safe to be able to step
[7:32] S2: outside of that brand, that brand of what it means
[7:35] S2: to be an Australian man and the straightness in that
[7:39] S2: and the lack of diversity because it's not played around
[7:41] S2: the world, um, can contribute to that. And, you know,
[7:47] S2: and for a player, like, it's one thing to feel
[7:51] S2: safe and supported by your teammates and the club environment.
[7:56] S2: But then like you remember, it's like average crowd. So
[8:01] S2: like 30,000 plus every weekend. And then the supporter base
[8:06] S2: is a you know, especially if you look at the
[8:09] S2: ratios of our population in Australia, like there's a lot
[8:11] S2: of people out there and you can hear them and
[8:14] S2: hear what they say. And, you know, it's it's almost
[8:19] S2: to a point, like your career is so short, it's
[8:22] S2: not worth it to, to to come out.
[8:24] S1: And yeah.
[8:25] S2: You know, I believe that like I believe that. And
[8:28] S2: that was the the general consensus consensus around the playing
[8:31] S2: group when we talk about it many years ago about
[8:34] S2: this player is like, well, why would you come out?
[8:37] S2: Why would you take on this burden that could potentially
[8:40] S2: disrupt your career, your performance.
[8:42] S1: Your team.
[8:43] S2: Your team, your ability to make income? Why do that
[8:47] S2: when you can just like play straight in a straight game,
[8:51] S2: and then afterwards right off into the sunset and do
[8:55] S2: what you want in your community and come out then. Yeah. Um,
[8:59] S2: whether it's public or not.
[9:00] S1: I want to go to another question. It's one that
[9:03] S1: comes up every single time someone comes out in sport
[9:06] S1: these days. It's a question I heard when young soccer
[9:08] S1: player Josh Cavallo came out, when basketball player Isaac Humphries
[9:12] S1: came out. There's two word question. Do you know what
[9:14] S1: the question is? Who cares?
[9:19] S2: And it's weird that I didn't get that because I.
[9:24] S1: Know that one right. You hear that one? We hear
[9:26] S1: it again and again and again. I think it's I
[9:28] S1: think it's well-meaning from people that some from some people
[9:33] S1: they're wanting to show, like, I don't consider you being
[9:37] S1: gay a big deal. So I'm gonna say, oh, who cares?
[9:40] S1: You know, it's.
[9:41] S2: Interesting, and I'd love to talk to, uh, the person
[9:45] S2: who studies human psyche. I'm sure there's a name for that. Um,
[9:51] S2: but I don't know, like, there is like. And this
[9:55] S2: is not just around in the the realm of sexuality
[9:59] S2: and homophobia and, um, the queer community is like a
[10:03] S2: lot of people just aren't equipped enough to be able
[10:07] S2: to know what to say. You know, I remember when
[10:10] S2: one of my good friends, um, growing up, his sister
[10:13] S2: was tragically killed in a car accident, and I was
[10:16] S2: there when he was told over the phone, I just
[10:18] S2: didn't know what to say to him. Um, so I
[10:21] S2: probably just blab it out if anything. And there's an
[10:24] S2: element of that. It's like, well, wow, Mitch, you've come out.
[10:28] S2: And this is so abnormal for the Australian rules football
[10:31] S2: in the men's competition. I don't know how to deal
[10:34] S2: with that. Or in your friendship groups when you don't
[10:37] S2: have anyone queer or gay or bi. And that happens.
[10:40] S2: It's almost like, you know, there's some silence from my
[10:44] S2: mates for, for a couple of weeks because I didn't
[10:46] S2: know what to say to me.
[10:46] S1: Yeah, yeah.
[10:47] S2: Um, But the notion around who cares? I think there's
[10:53] S2: a couple of parts of it. It's like, well, I
[10:55] S2: kind of laugh at it because you care enough to
[10:58] S2: to look at the the media or the article and
[11:01] S2: then comment. So yeah. You care? Yeah. Um, but then
[11:05] S2: there's a and I've seen this and this is my
[11:08] S2: observation and, and you know, my opinion around this is
[11:11] S2: like we in Australia, especially men, if someone stands up
[11:16] S2: steps outside the box and we've seen it not just
[11:19] S2: in the queer community, but, you know, for people in
[11:22] S2: diverse demographics and, you know, you know, Adam Goodes, a
[11:28] S2: number of years ago, if someone steps out and calls
[11:31] S2: something out or makes people feel uncomfortable, we're like, we're
[11:36] S2: kind of okay and kind enough to go, oh, well done, mate.
[11:40] S2: Good job. We'll take you for a, for a for
[11:43] S2: a day or a few Instagram posts, a few interviews.
[11:47] S2: But if you keep continuing to talk about this and
[11:51] S2: keep showing it, keep showing up on my feed or
[11:55] S2: and keep talking, then you're making me feel a little
[11:57] S2: bit uncomfortable. Can you get get back inside your box?
[12:01] S2: And you know, whether it's the comment of who cares?
[12:04] S2: They're trying to say that, you know, who cares? Get
[12:07] S2: back inside your box like we don't want to talk about.
[12:09] S2: We don't want to hear this. It's because it's uncomfortable
[12:12] S2: and it's confronting. Mhm. Um, and you know, that's you
[12:17] S2: know that's one of the things that I mean it's
[12:21] S2: trailblazing like people have mentioned that and I admire so
[12:26] S2: many of the AFL players in true trailblazers of, of
[12:31] S2: trying to, you know, bring up women's AFL and, and
[12:36] S2: the things that they have to go through and they
[12:39] S2: keep turning up and they're my role models in this.
[12:41] S2: And you know, I, I'm committed to not going back
[12:44] S2: inside my box because I know that a lot of
[12:47] S2: people need to, you know, have have this sense of
[12:51] S2: awkwardness and be confronted. And if, you know, we're going
[12:55] S2: to ever move the dial in terms of having queer
[12:58] S2: representation in these hyper masculine environments, in sport in particular,
[13:03] S2: then it's going to make for a lot of uncomfortable conversations,
[13:07] S2: challenging ones. And, and in, you know, Conrad, like, I
[13:12] S2: always take a beat and ground myself and remind myself that,
[13:19] S2: you know, I need to have I need to have the,
[13:24] S2: the attitude that even within myself to meet people where
[13:27] S2: they're at and not expect them to understand my sexuality
[13:32] S2: or understand bisexuality, or I want to be able to
[13:36] S2: sit down and go, hey, like what? What makes it
[13:39] S2: confronting for you and what makes it really hard for
[13:42] S2: you to listen to me, you know, say the words
[13:45] S2: I'm bisexual or I'm attracted to men. And let's talk
[13:49] S2: about that because, you know, if they're the ones that
[13:52] S2: we're trying to, you know, if they're blocking the way
[13:55] S2: to make a safer place. You know, I've got two
[13:57] S2: young boys, Conrad. And if I want them to grow
[14:00] S2: up in a safe environment where they're at school or
[14:02] S2: in their sporting club, if we're going to do that,
[14:05] S2: like we these people that are that are blocking that,
[14:09] S2: I want to sit down and talk to them about
[14:10] S2: that and try and get them a little bit closer
[14:13] S2: to understanding, um, that sense of acceptance and, and, and
[14:18] S2: safety for all beauty.
[14:21] S1: Here's what, um, Isaac Humphries said, actually, when I mentioned
[14:24] S1: that to him, because a few people were saying it
[14:26] S1: on radio at the time, he was really well spoken
[14:28] S1: on it. It was like the response is, a lot
[14:31] S1: of people care. You may not, but a lot of people,
[14:33] S1: millions of people who don't have a voice or representation,
[14:36] S1: care a lot. Just because homophobia is not in your
[14:39] S1: immediate line of thinking doesn't mean it's not affecting a
[14:42] S1: lot of people. So who cares? The little kid down
[14:45] S1: the street who really loves basketball and feels confused and
[14:48] S1: conflicted and not welcome because of who he is. That's
[14:51] S1: who cares. Or someone who's battling every day with thoughts
[14:54] S1: about suicide and sees my video and has a tiny
[14:56] S1: bit of hope. That's who cares. It's me who had
[15:00] S1: no example to look up to as a gay man
[15:01] S1: in basketball. I care. I've had hundreds of messages from
[15:05] S1: people all around the world. I've had people stop me
[15:07] S1: on the side of the street or on the court
[15:09] S1: after games. You might think gay is being gay is normalized,
[15:13] S1: but there's still so much backwards thinking in the world.
[15:15] S1: We are not there yet. That's the brutal reality. It
[15:19] S1: baffles me when people say, who cares? Who doesn't care?
[15:23] S2: Wow.
[15:24] S1: Uh, he says it all.
[15:26] S2: That's that's amazing. I mean, I got little goosebumps hearing that.
[15:30] S1: Can I ask what the response was like for you?
[15:33] S1: The the good and the bad. And maybe, maybe we
[15:35] S1: will start with the good. Like. And we could start
[15:38] S1: with individuals like people that, you know, and then maybe
[15:42] S1: also Strangers. Like, what was it like? Did you just
[15:47] S1: that podcast happened and then is your phone just kind
[15:51] S1: of lighting up for a fortnight afterwards or.
[15:54] S2: It's still lights up? Yeah. So it went out. Um,
[16:01] S2: it was around about ended up being about 11:10 on
[16:04] S2: that Wednesday morning, 28th of August. And um, you know what?
[16:11] S2: You know who the first person was to message me.
[16:15] S2: And so this person and is interesting to hear Isaac
[16:20] S2: Humphries and to to talk about he had no role models,
[16:24] S2: queer role models in basketball to follow. And, you know,
[16:28] S2: for me, in my footy career, I had no one,
[16:33] S2: no other player. You know, that's why I was so
[16:35] S2: important for the AFL players to enter the competition, because
[16:38] S2: they then became my role models, queer footballers in the
[16:42] S2: professional that I could relate to. I didn't have a
[16:46] S2: role model, and I remember halfway through my career, I
[16:50] S2: think there was like this, um, workshop that we had
[16:54] S2: and this picture came up on in the lecture theatre
[16:57] S2: and it was Daniel Kowalski, the the Olympic swimmer. Yep. Um,
[17:02] S2: and I grew up loving the Olympics, and I loved
[17:05] S2: Daniel Kowalski and Kieren Perkins and how they used to
[17:08] S2: verse each other in the 1500. And it was his
[17:12] S2: story about his coming out story. And I know it
[17:14] S2: wasn't initially positive for him. He was sort of forced out. Um,
[17:19] S2: but then he and he stood there and in this
[17:21] S2: photo was like, you know, I'm Daniel Kowalski out and
[17:24] S2: proud and and I just had this smile on his
[17:27] S2: face and I, like, sat there in that lecture theatre.
[17:30] S2: I didn't know him at the time. And I saw
[17:33] S2: that picture and I was like, I just felt something.
[17:36] S2: I could I could see the joy. I just was like, oh, man.
[17:41] S2: Like it's, it's it's there in the future or it's,
[17:44] S2: it's that's and that was many years ago and I
[17:48] S2: was fortunate enough to cross paths with, with Daniel, um,
[17:53] S2: on a professional level with some, you know, some sporting stuff.
[17:56] S2: He's now the works for the AOC. And the the
[18:04] S2: interview went out at 11, 11:10, and I funny enough,
[18:08] S2: I got a LinkedIn message. That was the first message
[18:11] S2: I got. And it was from Daniel Kowalski.
[18:14] S1: Wow.
[18:15] S2: And it was like he just. Yeah. He didn't have
[18:18] S2: the words to describe what it meant. And then he
[18:21] S2: followed up with another beautiful message and and then I
[18:25] S2: for the first time, I let him know that he
[18:28] S2: was my role model those many years ago. And it
[18:32] S2: was a special moment between myself and Daniel in those
[18:35] S2: text message exchanges on LinkedIn. Um, so there was some
[18:39] S2: really special messages. There was these messages of, um, I mean,
[18:43] S2: more celebrational like celebratory and, um, happiness and joy, which
[18:50] S2: is really fantastic because I was quite nervous about self-conscious
[18:55] S2: about the reaction. Um, and then these messages of which
[19:01] S2: became the most important. And, um, you know, I can
[19:05] S2: really relate to what you read out with, you know,
[19:08] S2: Isaac said about the people in the street and the
[19:10] S2: people and the little boy that's sitting there and that's
[19:13] S2: confused about his sexuality, but doesn't have anyone to talk
[19:16] S2: to or relate to. You know, those messages start to
[19:20] S2: come through. And this is where the whole argument of
[19:25] S2: the burden or the gift, and this is where it
[19:27] S2: truly becomes a gift, because a lot of people, a
[19:32] S2: lot of young people, a lot of middle aged men
[19:36] S2: that are in straight marriages, relationships Hips felt safe enough
[19:41] S2: to confide in me and message me, their story and
[19:46] S2: their experiences. And I can tell you there are thousands
[19:50] S2: of those messages. Yeah, tens of thousands of messages. And,
[19:54] S2: you know, as as these came through, I was just like, wow.
[19:57] S2: I said to my partner, Laura was like, I like,
[20:00] S2: how can you not read something like this when someone
[20:04] S2: can not tell anyone else in the world, not even
[20:07] S2: their partner, not even their parents, their mum and dad,
[20:10] S2: their best mates, they felt safe enough to share this
[20:13] S2: with me. Like, how can I not take this on?
[20:17] S2: And you know, those messages came through and I made
[20:20] S2: a commitment to write back and respond and take it on. And,
[20:26] S2: you know, it took a toll. I want to be honest,
[20:30] S2: it took a toll, but it just meant so much
[20:33] S2: to me. And I remember there was this kid that
[20:37] S2: in my local cafe that I would go down every
[20:39] S2: morning and get a coffee and I'll chat to him and.
[20:43] S2: And then a couple of days after I was sitting down,
[20:48] S2: he comes out of the other side of the the
[20:50] S2: bench of the coffee machine, and he comes to me
[20:54] S2: and he looks at me and there's tears in his
[20:56] S2: eyes and he goes, hey, Mitch, I. And he's crying.
[21:01] S2: And he goes, I just want to say thank you. I'm.
[21:05] S2: I'm a gay man. And you don't know how much
[21:08] S2: this means to me. And like his emotion, he was shaking.
[21:15] S2: And I could tell what this meant. And that was
[21:19] S2: when the enormity of, like, what I had done really
[21:24] S2: hit home. And I've always maintained the fact that, you know,
[21:29] S2: I didn't do this for me. And I was quite
[21:32] S2: happily out within my own little friendship group and community, um,
[21:37] S2: straight representing and I've got a woman as a partner.
[21:40] S2: You know, I didn't have to do this, but I
[21:42] S2: thought I wanted to shine a spotlight on, you know,
[21:46] S2: homophobia in sport. More, more importantly, you know, whether you're
[21:53] S2: queer or not, your ability as a man was a
[21:58] S2: person in general to be able to show up as
[22:01] S2: you are and not what people think you should be. And,
[22:06] S2: you know, I, you know, so many people just in
[22:10] S2: their work environments and their sporting teams and their their
[22:13] S2: group chats and their family dinners that feel that they
[22:18] S2: can't be themselves. And being trapped in that. And that's
[22:23] S2: what ultimately is what I wanted to, you know, try
[22:25] S2: and move the dial on, um, which is um, it's
[22:31] S2: been crazy. And, you know, of course, like, I made
[22:35] S2: a point, Conrad, not to to really shine a light
[22:38] S2: on the homophobia and the hate in terms of the reaction. Yeah, yeah.
[22:44] S2: And because I like I'm really I wanted to maintain that. Hey,
[22:47] S2: you know, this is a this is a positive thing.
[22:49] S2: It's a positive experience. I want to be strength based
[22:53] S2: with my language. I want to make it, you know,
[22:56] S2: I want to make a space and a platform to go, well, hey,
[22:59] S2: we are ready to be able to have more queer players.
[23:02] S2: We are, you know, there is so much progress. But
[23:06] S2: it got to a point where I'm like, hang on. No, no,
[23:08] S2: I think there is a point where I need to
[23:12] S2: also mention that we still have a bit a bit
[23:17] S2: of work to do. Yeah. And you know, there's still
[23:20] S2: a lot of hate and still a lot of homophobia
[23:22] S2: that has come my way. And and, you know, I
[23:26] S2: didn't want to just be all, you know, sunshine and
[23:29] S2: rainbows and lollipops because people, you know, we don't like
[23:33] S2: to read the bad things and and we like to
[23:37] S2: think that. Oh, Mitch, this is amazing. Have you copped
[23:39] S2: any hate? And I'm like, yeah, I have. And people
[23:42] S2: be like, what you have have you like. Yeah a lot. Um,
[23:46] S2: especially when you start to really challenge the norms and the,
[23:52] S2: the male psyche around something so sacred for us here
[23:56] S2: in Australia as our Aussie Rules football and our locker
[23:59] S2: room and our sitting there at the pub. And you know,
[24:02] S2: when you start to really rock that people get, people
[24:06] S2: don't like it. Yep. And they want to they want
[24:08] S2: to put you back in that box. And yeah, it's like, hey,
[24:13] S2: you know, the amount of comments that are like, hey Mitch,
[24:15] S2: we love what you did, but this is a bit
[24:17] S2: too far, you know, attacking, attacking our mad Monday, attacking
[24:21] S2: our blah, blah, blah.
[24:30] S1: Aside from kind of the more vile attacks and that
[24:34] S1: kind of direct homophobic fallout that you would imagine was
[24:39] S1: going to come your way. I want to address one element,
[24:42] S1: and that's the silence. So Isaac talked about this when
[24:46] S1: he came out. It was like, oh, I could handle
[24:48] S1: the the homophobic stuff. I knew that was going to
[24:51] S1: come my way. What really kind of hurt were the
[24:54] S1: people or the places that he didn't hear from, like
[24:58] S1: the American college that he had played for and loved
[25:02] S1: and gave his heart and soul for? He comes out
[25:05] S1: and they there's just not a word from the organization
[25:09] S1: or from any of his teammates. Um, and I feel
[25:14] S1: like that's something that you've brought up in the media
[25:17] S1: is like the, the silence from different places. So maybe
[25:21] S1: you could talk to us just about that. Yeah. The
[25:23] S1: way that that lack of affirmations can, can hurt.
[25:27] S2: Yeah. It's, um. It did. Yeah. I think so much
[25:34] S2: for Isaacs. It's just so relatable, you know? The silence
[25:38] S2: was so loud, especially those first, you know, when. And
[25:41] S2: this goes for for anyone that's, you know, a bit
[25:44] S2: apprehensive about something they've done or the environment they're walking into.
[25:49] S2: They're so hyper sensitive. And you know, I was those
[25:52] S2: weeks post that interview, I was really hyper sensitive to
[25:57] S2: people's reactions, like, how are they going to react? What's
[25:59] S2: my brother going to say? What's my um, what's the
[26:02] S2: West Coast Eagles? You know, the team that I played
[26:04] S2: for all my career going to say and waiting for that.
[26:07] S2: And so hyper sensitive. And what you're also hypersensitive to
[26:11] S2: is the silence. And you know, they haven't said anything.
[26:15] S2: What's I mean, are they offended. Are they were they
[26:19] S2: homophobic like. And for me, you know, and this is
[26:23] S2: where like you just get so frustrated because you know,
[26:28] S2: you want to it does hurt. And you and you
[26:31] S2: and I've always maintained this is not about me. Like.
[26:36] S2: And people will go, well, me, me, me like you.
[26:39] S2: You're attention seeking or not. And you know, what people
[26:45] S2: need to understand is when a big, influential organization like
[26:50] S2: a football club or you know, your school or whatever,
[26:55] S2: acknowledge or acknowledge, not even they didn't have to say
[26:59] S2: my name or anything or Isaac's name, they acknowledge that, hey,
[27:04] S2: we we understand this, the, the, this specific significance of
[27:12] S2: what Mitch did. And we're going to use that to
[27:15] S2: acknowledge that we are an inclusive or we are striving
[27:20] S2: for safety, inclusivity in our community and our fans and our,
[27:26] S2: you know, acknowledging them. And you know what that means.
[27:28] S2: You know, some of those clubs that, you know, had like,
[27:31] S2: a lot of, a lot of people contact me and say, ah, sorry, Mitch.
[27:35] S2: My club didn't at least acknowledge anything. And as a
[27:40] S2: queer supporter of that club, you know, I'm you know
[27:42] S2: what that makes me feel like? It makes me feel
[27:44] S2: like absolute crap. And, you know, that's the point. And.
[27:50] S1: You know, I hadn't heard it expressed that way. That's really. Yeah. Yeah.
[27:54] S1: Total sense.
[27:54] S2: It's for them. And like, it's to go, wow. Like,
[27:58] S2: you know what Mitch did or like this club that
[28:01] S2: hasn't really acknowledged or doesn't celebrate a pride round or
[28:05] S2: for the men's competition. Maybe this is the moment where
[28:08] S2: they can I can sort of go, hey, you know,
[28:11] S2: they they they do think about me as a queer person.
[28:15] S2: They they do. Like and that's the you know, I
[28:19] S2: really I really challenged the notion around when people say, oh, keep,
[28:24] S2: keep politics away from, from sport. It's just Aussie rules.
[28:28] S2: Football is a unique in itself because it's from the
[28:32] S2: professional levels to the down to the bottom Aussie rules
[28:37] S2: that the league influences all those levels.
[28:41] S1: And.
[28:41] S2: They are embedded into our, you know, our culture on
[28:44] S2: all those levels. So.
[28:46] S1: So did you get much of a response from the
[28:48] S1: league itself. Like what was the have HQ kind of
[28:53] S1: reached out and see a place for you as a,
[28:56] S1: I don't know, an ambassador in that diversity and inclusion
[28:59] S1: space or. Um.
[29:01] S2: Yeah. So the particular people in in League HQ have
[29:05] S2: been amazing. Laura Kane, Tom Harley, um, in particular and
[29:11] S2: and Tara, Tara, Taryn Lee, um, what I represent, whether
[29:18] S2: it's how I look or even to a notion that,
[29:22] S2: you know, it sounds silly that I even say this.
[29:24] S2: I'm more palatable for people because I'm bisexual. I have
[29:28] S2: a straight stripe of a woman as a partner. Right,
[29:31] S2: a bit easier. Less. You know. So I can walk
[29:35] S2: into a door like the league office, and they. They
[29:38] S2: will listen to me. I won't be the angry queer man.
[29:41] S2: If you like. So remember, I want to meet people
[29:46] S2: where they're at, too. And so the league office have
[29:48] S2: been really good. And like, let's let's talk about this.
[29:52] S2: Let's not just be performative about this. And yeah, let's
[29:55] S2: have some representation and visibility around what you're doing and
[29:59] S2: celebrate that. But then let's actually look at behind the scenes.
[30:02] S2: How can we really, you know, change things in the
[30:05] S2: men's competition. And, you know, going back to what we've
[30:09] S2: just spoken about, this silence. It's like, you know, gone
[30:15] S2: are the days of, you know, the the, the public
[30:18] S2: statement from a football club saying, oh, we do this
[30:21] S2: and this, but we're going to handle this internal. This
[30:24] S2: is an internal thing. Um, please, we're not going to
[30:27] S2: comment any more about that. It's like, you know, it's
[30:32] S2: like that famous saying and we've all we've all been
[30:35] S2: told this, whether you're from your boss, in your workplace
[30:38] S2: or your coach, it's up on the walls. Most football clubs,
[30:41] S2: it's like the actions you walk past are the actions
[30:44] S2: you accept, right? And we buy into that. We love
[30:48] S2: that saying.
[30:48] S1: Oh yeah.
[30:49] S2: I've been told that a million times.
[30:50] S1: And well, when it's in the gym and when it's
[30:52] S1: about how hard you fast you run, you know. Yeah.
[30:55] S2: So when you, when you close up shop from maybe
[30:59] S2: the media or you close up shop from expressing what's
[31:03] S2: actually going on or calling out something or, you know,
[31:06] S2: saying that something is unacceptable and you say silence because you're. Well,
[31:11] S2: if we do silence, it'll blow over. And the, you know,
[31:14] S2: the quickness of the news cycle and, you know, there
[31:17] S2: won't be a reaction or whatever. Um, it's just creates
[31:22] S2: so much. It's just so much worse. And it is
[31:25] S2: going against that philosophy. When you say nothing, you're saying
[31:30] S2: what you are saying very loudly is that you accept
[31:34] S2: that behavior. And, you know, for example, you know, and
[31:41] S2: there's many it's just one of these example. But, you know,
[31:43] S2: when the, the, the, the crowd was booing Isaac. Isaac
[31:48] S2: Quaynor in that match.
[31:49] S1: Um, so just for listeners, um, particularly in the northern
[31:53] S1: states who might not be aware, kind of homophobia has
[31:56] S1: reared its head in the AFL over the last couple
[31:58] S1: of years, with a handful of players suspended for offensive comments.
[32:02] S1: And the most recent high profile example kind of happened
[32:05] S1: shortly before Mitch came out, when Adelaide Crows star Isaac
[32:09] S1: Rankin was accused of making a homophobic remark, um, to
[32:13] S1: Collingwood player Isaac Quaynor, and the fallout was really dramatic.
[32:17] S1: Rankin was suspended effectively kind of ruled out for the season.
[32:22] S1: Pivotal player on the eve of a finals campaign. And
[32:26] S1: then the two teams played one another in a final
[32:28] S1: and Quaynor, the player who'd been abused, was booed all
[32:32] S1: night long by the Adelaide crowd. Um, I was curious
[32:36] S1: to know, like what that was like for you, watching,
[32:39] S1: watching that unfold, hearing those sounds.
[32:41] S2: I remember watching that. And this happens in all other
[32:46] S2: sports as well. Cricket. Um, yeah. It happens. It's just
[32:49] S2: this is a like and I remember watching it and yeah,
[32:54] S2: I've heard it and I remember the booing with Adam Goodes.
[32:57] S2: It's like people will we're booing because we want him
[33:00] S2: to play poorly or like we don't like him as
[33:03] S2: a person or that, but like, come on, you know,
[33:07] S2: and like from the football club, from the Adelaide coach,
[33:13] S2: from the CEO, they just said nothing, you know. They'd
[33:18] S2: had an opportunity to be able to stand up and
[33:20] S2: proudly condemn this behaviour and say, this is not what
[33:24] S2: we're about. They didn't choose that to do that. This
[33:28] S2: is one of the things with the league office, the AFL.
[33:31] S2: They also had an opportunity to go and they've seen
[33:34] S2: it with the Adam Goodes. You know the booing over
[33:37] S2: the time with Adam Goodes that drive one of our
[33:38] S2: legends out of the game. There's an opportunity to stand
[33:42] S2: up and and say we don't accept this behaviour, this
[33:47] S2: anti-social behaviour, whether it's against or homophobic or as racist.
[33:52] S2: We just don't accept this because we are striving for
[33:55] S2: a safe, inclusive environment in the stands. I didn't say anything.
[34:00] S2: And what that what that allows that crowd that was
[34:04] S2: there that day and people watching what that says to
[34:06] S2: them is, well, we're accepting this. We're accepting this. So,
[34:11] S2: you know, if Adelaide came up against Collingwood, the two
[34:14] S2: teams that were in this game again in later in
[34:16] S2: that final series, there would have been more booing, that's
[34:19] S2: for sure.
[34:20] S1: Because there probably will be next year when the two
[34:23] S1: teams meet, you know. Yeah. Nothing's more predictable. Yeah. Um,
[34:28] S1: just sort of on that, just going back a little bit.
[34:31] S1: So your early life in Ballarat for again for New
[34:35] S1: South Wales listeners, um, the rat always feels like the
[34:39] S1: coldest place in the state, but it's actually a kind
[34:41] S1: of lively regional centre. The Catholic Church is pretty prominent.
[34:45] S1: You went to Saint Pat's. We mentioned the alma mater
[34:48] S1: of everyone from Premier Steve Bracks to disgraced light Cardinal
[34:53] S1: George Pell. Um, and you were at this all boys
[34:57] S1: school kind of steeped in stoicism and strength. Uh, and
[35:03] S1: I was listening to a podcast the other day in
[35:05] S1: which you were sort of saying how, um, you know,
[35:08] S1: homophobic language was just like breathing. It was it was
[35:13] S1: a kind of daily occurrence. And you even sort of
[35:15] S1: ended up engaging in that yourself. And so that comes
[35:20] S1: back to Rankin, because I wanted to point out that
[35:23] S1: you reached out to him. Right. Because it's not really
[35:26] S1: so much even about his individual act like letting slip a,
[35:31] S1: you know, hurtful kind of hateful thing. But the the
[35:34] S1: wider reaction. What was that like? Like reaching out to
[35:38] S1: Isaac and like, what did you say to him? So.
[35:43] S1: Long winded question. Yeah. So I agree.
[35:46] S2: And Isaac's been on the end of a lot of
[35:48] S2: racist comments. And you know, he understands like what it
[35:52] S2: feels to be on the other side. And I saw him, um,
[35:56] S2: do a press conference and I could see the emotion
[35:58] S2: in him, like, and I was just like, you know,
[36:02] S2: and I maintained the fact that I want to meet
[36:04] S2: people where they're at, too. So I was like, hey, I,
[36:07] S2: you know, whether he wrote back or not or whether
[36:11] S2: he even knew who I was or not, I reached
[36:14] S2: out to him and said, hey, man, like, I yeah, I,
[36:16] S2: I you're not a bad person. You're an amazing role
[36:19] S2: model for so many people. remember that. I just wanted
[36:23] S2: to let him know that it's like you're. And we
[36:25] S2: had a couple of text exchanges and it was amazing.
[36:27] S2: And he's been like, he's been amazing since, like, he's
[36:32] S2: done things outside of what's expected, I guess from the club. He's,
[36:38] S2: you know, and I love that. And you know what
[36:42] S2: people like Isaac and and I genuinely mean that it's
[36:46] S2: it's not their fault. It's like embedded in our, our psyche,
[36:51] S2: our culture. And you know, that's from a young age
[36:55] S2: at school. It's the movies we watched. I watched a
[36:58] S2: movie and a beloved movie in the early 2000, stepbrothers.
[37:04] S2: It was so funny. And I watched it about a
[37:06] S2: month ago, and I loved it. But like every scene,
[37:10] S2: there was a punchline around being gay.
[37:13] S1: I watch my favorite, um, like ice hockey movie the
[37:16] S1: other day from when I was a kid, slapshot from
[37:19] S1: the 1970s 70s and the homophobia like is rank. I
[37:23] S1: don't remember it that way as a kid, but watching
[37:25] S1: it now, it's like it's not just age badly, like
[37:28] S1: it's aged horrendously.
[37:30] S2: And this is the thing. Like it's it becomes this,
[37:35] S2: this everyday casualness, you know, for me at Saint Pat's like,
[37:39] S2: and this is not just, you know, at Saint Pat's
[37:42] S2: would be everywhere other schools. And the word gay would
[37:46] S2: be thrown around as a punchline by the hour. And
[37:48] S2: it's just and it becomes like this really like casual behaviour.
[37:55] S2: And it's like every day disrespects that. I've sort of
[37:58] S2: talked about is, you know, for most people, they may
[38:01] S2: not be offended by it, you know, but what it
[38:05] S2: does do it, it it paves way for more harmful behaviour.
[38:11] S2: It embeds this behaviour of casualness. And, you know, when
[38:15] S2: you may be out on the field or under pressure
[38:18] S2: or All this heightened sense of, you know, competitiveness. That's
[38:24] S2: when the more harmful behavior rears itself as a result
[38:29] S2: of that everyday respect. Disrespect.
[38:31] S1: Absolutely. Yeah.
[38:32] S2: And that's what I'm talking about. And, you know, when
[38:35] S2: we get really sensitive on, you know, calling out, you know,
[38:41] S2: a comment or a post or language, whether it's at
[38:45] S2: the pub, in the group chats or, you know, Mad
[38:48] S2: Monday celebrations, that's the impact that it'll it'll help create
[38:55] S2: is like you call out that and people will be like, well,
[38:58] S2: you're so soft. It's like it's not homophobic. It's. And
[39:01] S2: I get it. It's yeah, I want to stop people
[39:04] S2: having fun. But the, the casualness in the, the slightest
[39:08] S2: bit of homophobia for that person, for that young Mitch
[39:13] S2: that's sitting there at 17 years old and he's flown
[39:18] S2: to the other side of the country from Ballarat to Perth,
[39:21] S2: and he's now sitting at the pub with grown men,
[39:26] S2: and they're throwing around these casual jokes about being gay
[39:30] S2: for that hypersensitive young queer person that's exploring and trying
[39:34] S2: to answer these questions inside of himself. I'm going, well,
[39:39] S2: this is not safe. There's no way I'm sharing that.
[39:42] S2: I might be attracted to men, to these group, these people, because,
[39:46] S2: you know, it's just crazy.
[39:50] S1: You did you did make a sort of attempt around
[39:53] S1: that time, didn't you? Tell us about that.
[39:57] S2: So like, I, you know, I got drafted as a
[39:59] S2: 17 year old year 11. I first got on a plane,
[40:03] S2: went to Perth.
[40:03] S1: First time away from your twin brother brother for a
[40:07] S1: long extended period. So I had this like.
[40:10] S2: This kind of coming of age force, coming of age moment. Yeah.
[40:14] S2: It's like and most people get it when they finish
[40:16] S2: school and they get a gap year or whatever. I
[40:19] S2: had this moment, so I had this kind of the
[40:21] S2: first time I was separated from my twin brother, and
[40:23] S2: I was like, now I feel more that more ability
[40:27] S2: to shape my own identity, and I start to build
[40:31] S2: confidence in that. And then, yeah, I got recruited to
[40:34] S2: a professional team and that brings confidence. And I was like, wow, maybe,
[40:38] S2: maybe this is maybe these questions that I'm asking myself, like,
[40:42] S2: am I gay? Am I, you know, do I like men?
[40:44] S2: And maybe I feel good enough to tell one of
[40:48] S2: my close mates, a teammate and I did and and, um, yeah,
[40:54] S2: it you know, and he's, he, he was one of
[40:58] S2: the first ones to reach out to me about this moment.
[41:01] S2: And I love him to death, but he, um. Yeah.
[41:04] S2: He didn't. We handled it. He handled it like a joke.
[41:07] S2: Like I said, hey, how do you know when you're gay? Like. And, um,
[41:13] S2: and he treated like a bit of a joke, and I.
[41:16] S2: and then I like saw that because remember, I'm hypersensitive
[41:19] S2: to reactions and I was like, okay, now let's, uh,
[41:27] S2: damage control. Let's turn that into a joke, too. So
[41:30] S2: then I participated in a joke and became homophobic. Uh,
[41:34] S2: I said some homophobic things and just joined into that
[41:37] S2: and then buried those questions and those thoughts deep down,
[41:41] S2: and never sort of let them out until post-football.
[41:46] S1: Okay. So that would have been a tough thing to
[41:49] S1: be closeted or just not able to live your truth
[41:54] S1: in that environment because you're there playing footy for ten years.
[41:57] S1: It was a really large, formative chunk of your life. Um,
[42:01] S1: so that's tough. But what did you love about footy?
[42:04] S1: Like just unrelated to all of your recent news? Like
[42:08] S1: what did you love about the game? I love asking
[42:11] S1: athletes like what they enjoyed about the act itself, you know?
[42:14] S2: And I smile as you ask that question and because
[42:17] S2: I like. Thanks for asking that because, I mean, the
[42:22] S2: stories I tell, it's like you'd be remiss. To think
[42:25] S2: that I love the game or like. Or didn't you know,
[42:31] S2: I speak about these moments. Not being able to show
[42:33] S2: up as myself and stuff. But I bloody love the
[42:36] S2: game and I. I'm so grateful. And I'm privileged in
[42:41] S2: the fact that I had so many amazing opportunities, whether it's,
[42:45] S2: you know. Through income, through, um, people that wanted to
[42:49] S2: know me and, you know, I got to travel the world.
[42:53] S2: And I did have fun in, in the change rooms
[42:55] S2: and the club and the club environments. I loved my teammates.
[42:58] S2: And you know, it's that's it's the hard one. Like,
[43:04] S2: you know I love the game so much and what
[43:08] S2: it represents to so many people. And you know the
[43:12] S2: week to week competitiveness the battle, the stories, the everything
[43:17] S2: about it, the training over summer, the want to get better,
[43:21] S2: you know, and doing that alongside your mates. I mean,
[43:26] S2: there's no better thing in the world and and there's
[43:29] S2: a reason why I decided to, you know, come out
[43:33] S2: publicly and, and to keep continually to talk about it
[43:36] S2: is because I love the game so much. If I
[43:38] S2: didn't care about the game, I, you know, I didn't
[43:41] S2: want my boys to grow up and play the game,
[43:43] S2: and I probably wouldn't. I'd probably leave it up to
[43:45] S2: someone else. But, you know, I, I love so one
[43:52] S2: of the things I feared most about exiting the game
[43:55] S2: when I finished up was the the gifts that been
[44:00] S2: able to put that jumper on and the gift it
[44:03] S2: gave you by having an impact on someone's life for
[44:06] S2: doing so little. I can remember I had this realization of,
[44:11] S2: you know, I went to a hospital, I went to,
[44:13] S2: you know, kids hospital and, you know, it was a
[44:15] S2: very sick child there. And I was there for like
[44:19] S2: a minute. They knew I was a player. I didn't
[44:22] S2: know who I was, but there was a player and
[44:24] S2: it's just like it was the best part of their day.
[44:26] S2: Like it was just amazing. They lit up and it
[44:29] S2: was just incredible. And I sat in the car in
[44:32] S2: the car park afterwards and I was like, wow. Like
[44:36] S2: when I finished, this is what I'm going to miss
[44:38] S2: the most. The, the, the gift to be able to
[44:40] S2: have an impact on someone's life. And I feared that.
[44:43] S2: And then I left the game and I realized that,
[44:47] S2: you know, we don't have to have this AFL jersey on.
[44:52] S2: We don't have to be a footballer to have an
[44:54] S2: impact on someone's life for doing so little. And, you know,
[44:58] S2: I had that realization. And, you know, from there I
[45:01] S2: just craved meeting people, meeting amazing people and people that
[45:07] S2: I could really, for the first time in my life,
[45:10] S2: like I loved my teammates. and the people that were
[45:13] S2: involved in my footy career. I wouldn't change anything in
[45:16] S2: the world and the environment they created, like even though
[45:19] S2: I couldn't at times show up as myself. But I
[45:24] S2: for the first time after footy, like at school, primary school,
[45:30] S2: at school, I didn't choose who my classmates were or
[45:33] S2: the students that rocked up at my school for footy
[45:36] S2: for ten years. The recruiters chose who were my teammates.
[45:40] S2: I didn't get a choice. And then after football, for
[45:43] S2: the first time in my life, I had the ability
[45:46] S2: to go choose my community, the people who I wanted
[45:49] S2: to be around, the jobs that I wanted to do.
[45:52] S2: And that's when I started to really crave connecting to
[45:56] S2: my identity. And over the years, post football, I started
[45:59] S2: to build confidence in who I was and who I
[46:02] S2: am and being proud in that. And people, you know,
[46:06] S2: loving and seeing who I really am and in all
[46:11] S2: my glory and imperfections and and that, including my sexuality
[46:16] S2: and the fact that I could explore these questions of
[46:21] S2: being attracted to men and and, um, not feeling ashamed
[46:25] S2: or embarrassed about that.
[46:26] S1: I had heard you discuss before, like making the call to, um,
[46:31] S1: to come out. Uh, and you mentioned something I hadn't
[46:35] S1: kind of thought of. You were like you questioned at
[46:39] S1: some point throughout the years whether you should because you're
[46:42] S1: bisexual and straight, presenting rather than just gay. You questioned
[46:47] S1: whether you were a good enough football player to come
[46:50] S1: out as gay, whether the first should be like some
[46:54] S1: absolute superstar or, you know, established champion. Um, and you
[46:59] S1: had those sorts of doubts. What was it that sort
[47:02] S1: of convinced you to. Yeah, cross the line eventually.
[47:06] S2: Yeah. For years I'd have conversations with people and, you know, um,
[47:12] S2: whether they're queer or not, they would say, hey, Mitch,
[47:14] S2: you really should, like, should really say something. I mean,
[47:17] S2: this could mean a lot to a lot of people and,
[47:19] S2: you know, could actually help a current player or someone
[47:23] S2: to actually feel strong enough to be able to, to
[47:25] S2: do this. And I was just like, ah, whether it's
[47:29] S2: in my own protection mechanisms or, you know, I would
[47:33] S2: consistently I still do it now. I'm like, there wasn't
[47:35] S2: much of a player or whatever I think I'm protecting
[47:37] S2: myself from. It's natural. But, you know, I, I truly,
[47:42] S2: I thought I'd so I reached out to the journalist
[47:45] S2: and when I was like, let's I want to tell
[47:47] S2: my story and come out. And he asked me the
[47:51] S2: first question he asked me was like, what's your biggest
[47:53] S2: fear with all this? And, you know, I said to him,
[47:56] S2: it was like the biggest fear was that people would
[47:59] S2: think I'm a fraud or an imposter. And like, I
[48:04] S2: still go through palpitations of that even now, Like, you know,
[48:10] S2: I have my own internalized biphobia. You know, there is
[48:14] S2: still a lot of biphobia within the queer community. And
[48:18] S2: and that so I'm like, well, you know, am I
[48:21] S2: worthy of this? You know, I've had a lot of
[48:23] S2: a lot of people within the queer community say, hey, Mitch,
[48:25] S2: we'd love your work, and we love your voice. And,
[48:28] S2: you know, keep doing it. But what we really need
[48:31] S2: is like, we love you, but what we really need
[48:33] S2: is a gay man to walk down the red carpet
[48:37] S2: at the Brownlow, holding his, you know, husband. And that's
[48:41] S2: what we really need. And, you know, I'm like, that's
[48:45] S2: the kind of.
[48:46] S1: Yeah, sorry, I can't give that to you.
[48:48] S2: Yeah. And so, yeah, I mean, a lot of things
[48:52] S2: did hold me back, um, for years I thought about
[48:56] S2: it for years. And then it's just like, you know,
[48:59] S2: I did here on this little snippet. And that's when
[49:03] S2: I was in Italy with my partner, and I was like,
[49:06] S2: the snippet said, you know, it was around this 129
[49:09] S2: years and not one person has come out and publicly
[49:12] S2: stated their, you know, their queerness as a player, past
[49:16] S2: or present. And it's like one of the only sports
[49:19] S2: in the world. And I was just like, man, I've
[49:24] S2: I've had enough of this. I'm gonna I don't care.
[49:27] S2: I'm gonna I'm just gonna talk to us because it's
[49:29] S2: not true. And it's not just me. There's so many others.
[49:32] S2: And I'm gonna just I'm gonna just like, let's get
[49:35] S2: rid of this stat. And, um. Yeah, it was funny.
[49:39] S1: I had still a stats driven footie player to the end.
[49:43] S2: That was my true KPI that I'm most proud of. Yeah.
[49:47] S1: Um, so I don't know. I guess I just want
[49:49] S1: to ask, what's next for you? Like, it feels like
[49:52] S1: you've had a big, big life already. But as we
[49:54] S1: mentioned off the top of the episode, you're 36 years old.
[49:57] S1: You're a bloody whippersnapper. At least compared to to me. Um.
[50:01] S1: What's next? You gotta settle in, I guess, to this
[50:04] S1: role of sort of unofficial Official spokesman, because people are
[50:08] S1: going to call on you for comment every time there's
[50:12] S1: some wisp like, oh, we might start a pride round,
[50:15] S1: let's ask Mitch about that. Somebody else was suspended for
[50:18] S1: a homophobic remark. Let's ask Mitch about that.
[50:21] S2: It's it's a I don't take this question lightly. And
[50:26] S2: I it's one of the biggest questions that I'm still
[50:30] S2: reflecting on, still thinking about. I've asked a lot of
[50:34] S2: people for advice on this one. It's like, what next?
[50:35] S2: What what do I do? And I remember 11:11 a.m., 11:10.
[50:41] S2: The story came out on August the 28th. By 3 p.m.
[50:47] S2: I had a missed phone call, and I called this
[50:49] S2: by no number and I called a like a number
[50:52] S2: I didn't know. I called it back and it was
[50:54] S2: Sam Austin, the Governor general of Australia. I was like, okay, wow. Um,
[51:00] S2: she was amazing. She was so nice. And, um, It
[51:05] S2: was like a really cool, casual conversation. I was like,
[51:10] S2: she was like, do you have any questions for me?
[51:12] S2: I'm like, actually, I do have a question. I was like, Sam, hey,
[51:15] S2: what do I do now? Like what? What do I
[51:19] S2: what do you think I should do? What? Do you
[51:20] S2: have any advice for me? And she said to me,
[51:25] S2: one thing is like, don't stop. Don't stop now. You know,
[51:30] S2: keep speaking out. Keep speaking for those who can't. And,
[51:35] S2: you know, keep speaking for those who don't have the
[51:38] S2: support out there. And I mean that like, I'm so
[51:42] S2: lucky to have these amazing organizations to to have conversations
[51:47] S2: with you, Conrad, and like to have, you know, this
[51:51] S2: love and these messages. And yeah, I got a little
[51:53] S2: bit of hate, but, you know, I get so much love.
[51:55] S2: And my coming out experience has been so really positive
[51:59] S2: and uplifting. And there's been there's been personal like byproducts,
[52:05] S2: pardon the pun of the of this of. Yeah. I'll
[52:10] S2: walk a little bit taller. And I'm proud of who
[52:12] S2: I am and my queerness and and I know that
[52:15] S2: a lot of people don't have this support and they're
[52:18] S2: coming out. Experience is not positive. And, you know, I
[52:22] S2: just want to be able to share this love and
[52:23] S2: support that I have with those people. And one way
[52:27] S2: I can do that is to keep speaking out, keep talking,
[52:30] S2: keep sharing my story, and I will do that. And,
[52:34] S2: you know, yes, there's some things I want to get
[52:36] S2: my hands dirty with, especially within the men's AFL competition. And,
[52:42] S2: you know, the culture in the locker rooms around safety, inclusivity.
[52:45] S2: I want to change things, help make reform and, you know,
[52:50] S2: share my perspectives with players as a past player. And
[52:53] S2: I want to I want to do that. But I
[52:54] S2: also want to just keep being there for people who,
[52:57] S2: you know, that don't have anyone to look up to.
[53:00] S2: And now they do, especially within young, young boys who
[53:04] S2: are playing football. Um, I want to keep showing up
[53:07] S2: for them.
[53:08] S1: Well, thanks for showing up. Thanks for speaking up. And
[53:12] S1: thanks for speaking with us today.
[53:14] S2: Well, thanks for having me on, Conrad. Thank you.
[53:19] S1: That was former AFL player Mitch Brown for the latest
[53:22] S1: good weekend talks. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember
[53:25] S1: to subscribe, rate and comment wherever you get your podcasts
[53:28] S1: and keep tuning in for more compelling conversations. Good Weekend
[53:32] S1: Talks is brought to you by the Sydney Morning Herald
[53:34] S1: and The Age. Proud newsrooms powered by subscriptions to support
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[53:43] S1: This episode of Good Weekend Talks is produced by Konrad
[53:46] S1: Marshall and edited by Tim Mummery, with technical assistance from
[53:50] S1: Cormac Lally. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom McKendrick
[53:54] S1: is head of audio and Melissa Stevens is the editor
[53:57] S1: of Good Weekend.

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