# The China Summit, & the Terrible New CT Strategy | EYES ON GEOPOLITICS

An episode of [The Team House](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1492797340), 19 May 2026, 58 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/clrtpod.com/m/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/72061726/ct_strategy_spreaker.mp3

In this episode, Dee and Marc Polymeropoulos analyze recent geopolitical events including the China Summit, Iran tensions, and the new US counterterrorism strategy. They explore the implications of diplomatic moves, military actions, and strategic failures, offering insights into current US foreign policy and military operations. GhostBed ⬇️ https://www.ghostbed.com/team FOR 10% off! Support the show on Patreon:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Subscribe to our newsletter!!!! https://teamhousepodcast.kit.com/join Jack's news outlet: https://thehighside.substack.com/ Find Jon Hackett here:⬇️ Jon's Twitter: https://x.com/jonathanhackett Jon's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thejonathanhackett Jon's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0C5L659N5?ccs_id=e11a2062-f8d3-498e-bfd7-7d2f3869caf6 Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thejonathanhackett Twitter: https://x.com/jonathanhackett Check out Mick's new podcast here:⬇️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/at/podcast/pub-and-porch-applied-stoicism/id1836955475 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1k3QPmkAMwnGJxMLDwUSSd?si=n6piIu8XRcag1Z0K43A3bQ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@UCd0Hq6QFk8CoTu5j-VU0Ong Find Mick Mulroy here: Fogbow ⬇️ https://fogbow.com/ Lobo Institute ⬇️ https://www.loboinstitute.org/ Twitter ⬇️ https://x.com/mickmulroy?s=21&t=-Ze3F_Ix2vlJ18KFvORTCA LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-patrick-mulroy-31198b52/ Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/mickmulroy.bsky.social Mick’s publications ⬇️ https://www.loboinstitute.org/publications/publications-of-michael-mick-patrick-mulroy/ Whitefish security summit ⬇️ https://whitefishsecuritysummit.com Find Marc P here: https://x.com/Mpolymer Find Andy Milburn here: Twitter ⬇️ https://twitter.com/i/flow/login?redirect_after_login=%2Fandymilburn8 LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmilburn2023 Substack ⬇️ https://amilburn.substack.com/ Andy’s book ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/When-Tempest-Gathers-Mogadishu-Operations Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/andy-milburn.bsky.social Find Jason Lyons here: LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-lyons-666873316?u Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/bgsilverback73.bsky.social "Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio 00:00 Start 00:30 China Summit 07:05 Iran: The Looming Conflict 13:58 Counterterrorism Strategy: A New Approach? 27:06 The Flaws in Counterterrorism Strategy 32:08 The Role of Soft Power in Counterterrorism 38:02 Israeli National Security Post-October 7th 44:58 Media Representation and Accountability 51:08 Reflections on Military Ethics and Civilian Casualties Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of AIS on Geopolitics.
[0:03] Speaker 1: I'm joined today with Mark poly Moreopolis two Greeks for
[0:07] Speaker 1: the price of one.
[0:08] Speaker 2: Here we go.
[0:08] Speaker 1: Uh, no Marines, thank god, Finally No, everyone's had Everyone
[0:13] Speaker 1: had a pretty eventful weekend, so we weren't able to
[0:15] Speaker 1: record yesterday, so we grabbed one. We needed to get
[0:18] Speaker 1: something out because it seems like it's been a bit
[0:20] Speaker 1: of a wild news week. First and foremost, there's a
[0:24] Speaker 1: ton of stuff we're gonna talk about. The first thing
[0:27] Speaker 1: is a China summit. Uh, as far as all the
[0:29] Speaker 1: reporting goes like, it seems like nothing really fucking came
[0:32] Speaker 1: of it. Frankly, the Iran War was looming the whole
[0:36] Speaker 1: time over it obviously, China was still you know, digging
[0:40] Speaker 1: their heels in. And when it comes to Taiwan, President
[0:44] Speaker 1: Trump's statements really like his was like interviews and stuff
[0:47] Speaker 1: like that with the press were not you know, he
[0:49] Speaker 1: was basically I don't know, it sounded like he was
[0:51] Speaker 1: spinning a little bit for China, which is kind of crazy.
[0:53] Speaker 1: He has this weird thing where he, uh, whenever he
[0:56] Speaker 1: goes and meets a dictator, he like falls in love
[0:58] Speaker 1: with him and like he becomes like they're no. Number
[1:00] Speaker 1: one pal. So it was just an interesting thing. The
[1:03] Speaker 1: news was covering a floor like you know, minutes a minute,
[1:07] Speaker 1: and like nothing happened more or less. Like there was
[1:09] Speaker 1: a lot of like, yeah, we'll agree to talk about this,
[1:12] Speaker 1: We'll agree to maybe talk about soybeans and boeing like
[1:15] Speaker 1: in jets and stuff like that, AI chips or whatever,
[1:18] Speaker 1: but nothing concrete came out of it. Also, we're looking
[1:23] Speaker 1: at you know, the Iran war still going on straight
[1:25] Speaker 1: to hermos Is essentially still blocked inflations creeping up here
[1:29] Speaker 1: in America slowly but surely, gases obviously a lot or
[1:33] Speaker 1: higher in Europe. It's like crazy, I've heard. And so
[1:40] Speaker 1: there's a word that the Iranians are thinking that like
[1:42] Speaker 1: it's going to start up in the next forty eight hours.
[1:45] Speaker 1: BB had a phone call with Trump, I think over
[1:48] Speaker 1: the weekend to discuss next steps and stuff like that. So,
[1:53] Speaker 1: you know, we're kind of in a waiting pattern. We're
[1:55] Speaker 1: waiting to see I was telling my friend of mine too,
[1:57] Speaker 1: I was like, there's no way that we're gonna start
[2:00] Speaker 1: bombing Iran while we're in China. While Trump's in China,
[2:03] Speaker 1: with like fifty CEOs and like basically the whole cabinet.
[2:07] Speaker 1: So we're back here. We'll waiting and seeing. And also
[2:10] Speaker 1: I want to get your take on the uh, the
[2:12] Speaker 1: new counter terrorism strategy, you know, because you worked in
[2:15] Speaker 1: it for a couple of decades, so and how insane
[2:19] Speaker 1: it reads and looks. But first, where are your thoughts
[2:22] Speaker 1: on China?
[2:23] Speaker 2: Well, okay, so we'll get that. We'll get these things.
[2:25] Speaker 2: I definitely the CT strategy is something red up my alley.
[2:27] Speaker 2: We talk about China. Second. But I like that we
[2:30] Speaker 2: have two Greeks on right now. You're right, and this
[2:33] Speaker 2: is actually Greek day because earlier today is actually cool.
[2:35] Speaker 2: I'll mention this. I'm in it. So let me just
[2:37] Speaker 2: say I'm in a new state of mind. Now I'm
[2:40] Speaker 2: gonna be positive. There's too much negativity. There's too much
[2:42] Speaker 2: I post on X NonStop. It's always negative. Not good,
[2:46] Speaker 2: not healthy for me. I'm in my new health kick
[2:49] Speaker 2: and uh, and so today it was actually a cool event.
[2:52] Speaker 2: Good buddy of mine, he's on CNN all the time.
[2:54] Speaker 2: Alex Plitz's another Greek, some awesome friend. Former syops guy
[2:58] Speaker 2: for for God, then worked on the civilian side and
[3:00] Speaker 2: d D. So we went and we talked to one
[3:01] Speaker 2: hundred and fifty college interns down in DC at the
[3:05] Speaker 2: Washington Center. It was so cool about passing the towards
[3:07] Speaker 2: to the next generation, all positivity. The kids were all
[3:11] Speaker 2: fired up. I got fired up. I have a million
[3:13] Speaker 2: emails you know after that in terms of just mentoring folks,
[3:17] Speaker 2: and so there's got to be some good in the world.
[3:20] Speaker 2: There's a there's a guy. I don't even know who
[3:21] Speaker 2: this guy is. Maybe you guys, maybe you and Jack
[3:23] Speaker 2: know on Twitter. He's actual one murph. I was just
[3:26] Speaker 2: looking them up. I think it's a former seal. But
[3:29] Speaker 2: it's all this motivational stuff, okay, and I'm you know,
[3:32] Speaker 2: and and usually I don't kind of get hooked into that.
[3:34] Speaker 2: But it's all positive. Just it's about you know, just
[3:37] Speaker 2: taking care of yourself and forgiveness. But it's actual one murf.
[3:40] Speaker 2: It's really good. Uh and uh. Anyway, so it's my
[3:44] Speaker 2: new mood now. So I'm gonna be positive critical. I'll
[3:47] Speaker 2: be I'll give constructive criticism to the Trump administration.
[3:50] Speaker 1: Until he's starting today. This is the.
[3:51] Speaker 2: First actually I said last night to my wife, I said,
[3:54] Speaker 2: I can't I'm going down the dark road of negativity.
[3:57] Speaker 2: It's not healthy, not good for me now good for everybody.
[4:00] Speaker 2: Everyone thinks. I you know, I'm a I have total
[4:03] Speaker 2: Trump arrangement syndrome, which I do, but but I have
[4:07] Speaker 2: to kind of modulate that into saying now instead of
[4:09] Speaker 2: just criticizing, saying, hey, what should we be doing? So
[4:12] Speaker 2: that's I'm gonna turn over a new leaf. All right,
[4:15] Speaker 2: so so so d so uh. Anyways, Greeks are taken
[4:18] Speaker 2: over the world today. I have Greek event number one
[4:21] Speaker 2: earlier today. Now I got my Greek event number two.
[4:23] Speaker 2: Marines can go kind of you know, they're doing their
[4:26] Speaker 2: like family celebration stuff right, which is great, and they'll
[4:28] Speaker 2: tell you about it. They'll tell us all about it
[4:30] Speaker 2: next week. Really cool stuff happening to some of our
[4:32] Speaker 2: fellow colleagues.
[4:33] Speaker 1: Listen, I hope you do keep positive attitude. I mean,
[4:36] Speaker 1: it's not great for content really, but like it's better
[4:40] Speaker 1: for your mental health.
[4:41] Speaker 2: So I really yeah, you know. And the funny thing is,
[4:45] Speaker 2: I've just on it, so I gotta be honest. I
[4:47] Speaker 2: was just on a signal chat so some buddies of mine,
[4:49] Speaker 2: former agency, former d D, and I was talking to
[4:51] Speaker 2: them that the that we're witnessing the fall. This is
[4:53] Speaker 2: like the Roman Empire of America's committing superpower suicide. So
[4:57] Speaker 2: I'm not taking my own advice.
[4:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not wrong.
[5:03] Speaker 2: So the China some interesting and I don't know about
[5:06] Speaker 2: some of our fellow colleagues, whether it's Mick or Jonathan,
[5:09] Speaker 2: but like my TV appearances went to zero last week.
[5:12] Speaker 2: So what does that tell you?
[5:13] Speaker 1: Really?
[5:14] Speaker 2: Uh, that means nothing happened in the China summ and
[5:16] Speaker 2: a lot of pomp. You know, we watched the Big Ballroom.
[5:19] Speaker 2: There was the really actually I thought it was funny
[5:21] Speaker 2: again in my newfound positivity, Elon Musk's faces he was
[5:25] Speaker 2: making while he was taking selfies with some Yeah, yeah,
[5:28] Speaker 2: the ketamine face. So just you know, but nothing really
[5:31] Speaker 2: substantive happened other than than d You nailed it that
[5:34] Speaker 2: the any kind of resumption of military hostilities would not occur,
[5:38] Speaker 2: would never occur, was never going to occur while everybody
[5:42] Speaker 2: was in Beijing, and so I think you got that right.
[5:45] Speaker 2: But in terms of you know, the pomp and circumstance, sure,
[5:50] Speaker 2: I think the highlights only were that. Uh, the Chinese,
[5:54] Speaker 2: as they usually do, agree to some type of nebulous
[5:56] Speaker 2: trade deals. We don't know the details. There's there's supposed
[5:59] Speaker 2: to be hundreds of bo planes, there might be two
[6:01] Speaker 2: hundred chip stuff like, nothing really is substantive. If it was,
[6:05] Speaker 2: we would have heard about it. And then then the
[6:08] Speaker 2: big thing was frankly, President Trump's interview with Sean Hannity
[6:11] Speaker 2: on Fox in which he said, yeah, you know, I'm
[6:14] Speaker 2: not sure about this giant, you know, billion dollar weapon
[6:16] Speaker 2: billions of dollars of weapons package to Taiwan. I'll think
[6:20] Speaker 2: about it, which and he discussed it with the Chinese,
[6:23] Speaker 2: which goes against decades of US policy that weapons deals
[6:27] Speaker 2: to Taiwan were not to be discussed with the Chinese.
[6:30] Speaker 2: And so now the Taiwanese, I'm sure are freaking out.
[6:33] Speaker 2: Guess who is uh going to China right now?
[6:39] Speaker 1: Jared? I thought Jared I called him by the same
[6:43] Speaker 1: one name.
[6:43] Speaker 2: It's just no, I got that. And so so ultimately
[6:46] Speaker 2: it was a summit of not a lot of substance.
[6:49] Speaker 2: And now our allies in the Pacific are questioning us. Sure,
[6:53] Speaker 2: and so you know, and and what it But but honestly,
[6:56] Speaker 2: and again this is certainly not about uh me, but
[7:00] Speaker 2: in terms of things which put me in the media.
[7:03] Speaker 2: I was not last week. I'm not interesting, but not
[7:07] Speaker 2: a peete from MS now And and of course I
[7:10] Speaker 2: got on this morning because we're talking about the possibility
[7:14] Speaker 2: of resuming the war with Iran, the one, so just
[7:18] Speaker 2: switching to that. It's fascinating. And I just got a
[7:20] Speaker 2: whole bunch of texts from some other reporters. Trump is
[7:23] Speaker 2: now threatening all sorts of armagedinon again, but because the
[7:27] Speaker 2: Iranians are not certainly adhering to any of our demands.
[7:30] Speaker 2: But nobody's like, no one's panicking this time. No one's
[7:33] Speaker 2: saying because one two things. One is, no one believes
[7:36] Speaker 2: Trump anymore. You don't know if he's going to carry
[7:38] Speaker 2: through in these threats. And number two is and there's
[7:40] Speaker 2: been a lot of really good military analysis done by
[7:43] Speaker 2: this by some former Israeli military officials who are critical
[7:49] Speaker 2: of the campaign, saying that actually there's really nothing militarily
[7:52] Speaker 2: we can do now to cause the Iranians to capitulate
[7:55] Speaker 2: to what we need them to do. Save one hundred thousand,
[7:58] Speaker 2: two hundred thousand US force. Isn't a full on invasion
[8:01] Speaker 2: of Iran, which is never gonna happen. Additional strikes. What
[8:05] Speaker 2: does that actually do The Iranians think they can weather it,
[8:08] Speaker 2: They think they can last Trump, and so you know,
[8:11] Speaker 2: we're kind of in this box right now. And frankly,
[8:14] Speaker 2: the only thing when you know it might be a
[8:16] Speaker 2: good thing is that we're gonna have to not cave,
[8:19] Speaker 2: but we're gonna have to compromise to some of the
[8:22] Speaker 2: Iranian demands and that's gonna be a political problem for
[8:25] Speaker 2: Trump and he doesn't want to do that. So we're stuck.
[8:26] Speaker 1: So I don't know where this goes, frankly. And it
[8:28] Speaker 1: was that by the way. Yeah, it was interesting to
[8:31] Speaker 1: see like both sides. I think drop side, I mean
[8:33] Speaker 1: drop side is you know, Ryan Graham and jerrymy ska Hill.
[8:35] Speaker 1: So take it for what it's worth. They do good work.
[8:38] Speaker 1: But uh yeah yeah, but they I mean, they get
[8:41] Speaker 1: they're not pro Israel, and they are a little bit
[8:44] Speaker 1: too much like a mic. They're like the axials for
[8:47] Speaker 1: the Fars like for Iranians, to be honest. But you know,
[8:53] Speaker 1: they posted something about the demands from both sides, and
[8:56] Speaker 1: it sounds like both sides are totally maximalist. Yeah, right,
[9:00] Speaker 1: and it's like we're even farther apart than that we've
[9:04] Speaker 1: ever been.
[9:05] Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you're nailing it right. So so yeah,
[9:07] Speaker 2: that and that's not the way anything ever gets settled. Now. Ordinarily,
[9:11] Speaker 2: if we had kind of a you know, a less
[9:14] Speaker 2: kind of bombastic leader who has not put himself in
[9:19] Speaker 2: a box, you would say, Okay, we're gonna have to compromise.
[9:21] Speaker 2: I think the American people couldn't give a rats ass
[9:23] Speaker 2: if we compromise. But politically Trump has boxed himself in.
[9:27] Speaker 2: So when he says now you know we're talking that
[9:29] Speaker 2: the details of this and I'm not a nuclear expert,
[9:31] Speaker 2: have to do with how much highly enriched uranium? How much?
[9:34] Speaker 2: When do they have to when do we When was
[9:36] Speaker 2: the moratorium on enrichment end? And you know, we said
[9:40] Speaker 2: twenty years, the Iranian said ten five, whatever, There is
[9:43] Speaker 2: a there's a time period in there in which it
[9:45] Speaker 2: would be okay. But Trump today said no, twenty years
[9:49] Speaker 2: or nothing. And so you know he's I don't know
[9:51] Speaker 2: where this goes. Yeah, because you know, again there's have
[9:54] Speaker 2: to be compromised on both sides, and I don't see
[9:56] Speaker 2: that happening yet. And and the kind of the last
[9:58] Speaker 2: point on the Iran thing, because we could talk about
[10:00] Speaker 2: it forever. But I don't even know if there's anything.
[10:02] Speaker 2: All that new is is just the notion of uh
[10:07] Speaker 2: uh once again, that that militarily we can have tactical successes,
[10:13] Speaker 2: but strategically we have not been able to plan or
[10:16] Speaker 2: execute anything that is even remotely coherent. And and and
[10:21] Speaker 2: on that note, and I've talked about it before in
[10:23] Speaker 2: the podcast, you know, and I God bless the American men, men,
[10:27] Speaker 2: women in the American military. They are men, the sailors, everybody
[10:30] Speaker 2: in the marine. Is everyone involved in this? But I
[10:33] Speaker 2: don't know if I or others, and perhaps do you
[10:36] Speaker 2: comment on this, you know, when I hear another Pentagon briefing,
[10:39] Speaker 2: I'm not even sure what to believe anymore, because and
[10:41] Speaker 2: I will tell you this, and here's a huge point.
[10:43] Speaker 2: We talk, we've we have, we've kind of hammered, you know,
[10:46] Speaker 2: kind of the pro Israel right, the freedom of defense
[10:49] Speaker 2: democracy folks ever definitely pushed in the war, pushing the
[10:52] Speaker 2: administration's lines, even Mark Dubowitz, who heads the whole organization there,
[10:57] Speaker 2: and there's some good people there who actually are really
[10:59] Speaker 2: smart on this. But we actually said the other day, well,
[11:01] Speaker 2: because US intelligence now says only half of the you know,
[11:04] Speaker 2: the ballistic missile inventory has been degraded. We have to
[11:07] Speaker 2: keep going. And I was like, well, hold on a second.
[11:09] Speaker 2: The Pentagon said a couple of days ago that it
[11:12] Speaker 2: was much more than that. So now even the most
[11:14] Speaker 2: hawkish people are saying, well, maybe those assessments are not correct.
[11:18] Speaker 2: And so, you know, is this even I guess here's
[11:20] Speaker 2: a question for you. Is this even under the constraints
[11:24] Speaker 2: we know the United States has? You know, if we're
[11:27] Speaker 2: not going for two hundred thousand ground troops and full
[11:29] Speaker 2: on regime change, you know, can we win this? I
[11:34] Speaker 2: think we lost it, you know, militarily. I don't know
[11:36] Speaker 2: if what the answer is on that.
[11:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we probably need more than two hundred
[11:40] Speaker 1: thousand troops, right whatever, you know what I mean, it's
[11:42] Speaker 1: a significant amount. Yeah. I think we strategically lost this
[11:47] Speaker 1: the day we started bombing them, when we had another
[11:50] Speaker 1: negotiation set up for that Monday, where supposedly on the
[11:54] Speaker 1: table was you know, digging up the uranium. Enrich uranium
[11:59] Speaker 1: means ending it to another country, Like we're not going
[12:03] Speaker 1: to get that at this point, you know, So I
[12:05] Speaker 1: think we're just gonna go back to this holding pattern.
[12:07] Speaker 1: It's like it's like a weird, deranged, like mowing of
[12:10] Speaker 1: the lawn, you know, that strategy everyone fucking talks about,
[12:13] Speaker 1: which is bullshit in my opinion too. But I digress,
[12:17] Speaker 1: like it's like this weird deranged version of Iran.
[12:20] Speaker 2: No, don't, don't digress, because I think you're right. I mean,
[12:22] Speaker 2: so when I talk to Israelis, and you know, I'm
[12:25] Speaker 2: far closer to them than I think you are. And
[12:28] Speaker 2: that's okay, we have to have different opinions on the show.
[12:31] Speaker 2: But I think they're coming to the realization that it's
[12:33] Speaker 2: going to be a mowing the lawn strategy because because
[12:35] Speaker 2: there because you know, things are not going to kind
[12:37] Speaker 2: of be settled militarily like many people anticipated. So I
[12:41] Speaker 2: so in some ways, and maybe this is what happens,
[12:43] Speaker 2: is that nothing happens.
[12:46] Speaker 1: The straight of hord moves stays like that they get
[12:48] Speaker 1: a million of a boat.
[12:51] Speaker 2: But if Trump, I mean, you know, the in some fashion,
[12:56] Speaker 2: the Iranians are going to so maybe but the Iranians
[12:58] Speaker 2: are going to start cutting deal with other countries on
[13:01] Speaker 2: the side, and maybe the US has nothing to can
[13:04] Speaker 2: do about it, and then it turns into a tall booth.
[13:06] Speaker 2: Now that's not good for us. But again, I'm not
[13:09] Speaker 2: so sure how we get out of this.
[13:10] Speaker 1: And but what about like the UAE Katari's and stuff
[13:14] Speaker 1: like that, like sending their boats out with their Oi Iraqi.
[13:17] Speaker 1: I'm sure whoever.
[13:18] Speaker 2: Cool, we're gonna start cutting deals. I mean, already the
[13:20] Speaker 2: UAE and the Saudis are at odds over this. There
[13:22] Speaker 2: was all sorts of rumors over the weekend of some
[13:24] Speaker 2: kind of that the wanted to cut some kind of deal.
[13:27] Speaker 1: I saw that supposedly the Saudis bombed the UAE. There's
[13:31] Speaker 1: rumors of that too. Yeah, I don't Well, they got
[13:34] Speaker 1: hit from drones, not from Iran, but from the west
[13:36] Speaker 1: of them.
[13:37] Speaker 2: I think it was not that there was a rocky
[13:38] Speaker 2: sheer groeps, Okay, I would imagine, but but ultimately, uh,
[13:43] Speaker 2: you know, it's this is this is a tough one again,
[13:45] Speaker 2: and so so going to the mc molroylint line, which
[13:49] Speaker 2: I believe in, Hey, we want to win, you know,
[13:51] Speaker 2: we're on Team America. I'm not just sure how we
[13:53] Speaker 2: do so right now, how we get out of this
[13:55] Speaker 2: we don't And that's and and and again unfortunately, so
[13:59] Speaker 2: there's two things. One we can criticize the the entry
[14:02] Speaker 2: into this mess. That's fine. But again, if you were
[14:04] Speaker 2: sitting at the National Security Council and if d was
[14:08] Speaker 2: in the administration, probably something that would never happen. Uh
[14:12] Speaker 2: as but uh and I say the same thing for me.
[14:16] Speaker 2: You know what kind of advice would you give? I?
[14:18] Speaker 2: Actually you know that that that would get us out
[14:20] Speaker 2: of this? And aside from a compromise I'm not and
[14:24] Speaker 2: which which politically I don't think Trump can go through.
[14:27] Speaker 2: Lindsay Graham will have an anaerysm.
[14:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know what he was on the Sunday shows,
[14:31] Speaker 1: like going bananas again, like you know, beating the drum. Graham,
[14:36] Speaker 1: you know, you know.
[14:37] Speaker 2: At some point, and I hate to do this, is
[14:40] Speaker 2: you kind of say these folks, well fucking sign up,
[14:42] Speaker 2: go send your kids. Now. I don't think Lindsay has
[14:43] Speaker 2: any kids, but but you know, or just Lindsay go
[14:47] Speaker 2: back into I think he was a reservist at one point.
[14:49] Speaker 2: But you know, I mean, all these people who are
[14:50] Speaker 2: beating the drums of war are fine, sign your kids
[14:53] Speaker 2: up for it, because I'm not sure where this goes
[14:56] Speaker 2: right now, so and and and and frankly, you know
[15:00] Speaker 2: there's there's there's not that much more to when I
[15:03] Speaker 2: say to say on this unless someone has some kind
[15:07] Speaker 2: of you know, magic bullet. I mean, what was mix
[15:09] Speaker 2: saying that that that's what I think that was this thing,
[15:11] Speaker 2: or there's no there's no uh, you know, magic wand
[15:15] Speaker 2: to wave or whatever that makes this all okay. I'm
[15:17] Speaker 2: just not quite sure how we get out of this now.
[15:19] Speaker 2: And that's a that's a tough one. And you know,
[15:21] Speaker 2: and and again if you're on the on the politics
[15:24] Speaker 2: side of it, you know, the American people clearly are
[15:27] Speaker 2: not in favor of this and are not going to
[15:29] Speaker 2: I mean, you fill up my truck and it costs
[15:30] Speaker 2: over one hundred bucks. Yeah, it's four fifty in Virginia.
[15:34] Speaker 2: I think it's probably like eight bucks in California.
[15:37] Speaker 1: It's like just over six like six fifteen, six twenty
[15:40] Speaker 1: in Cali in the West coast.
[15:41] Speaker 2: And that's that's what American people care about. I mean, no,
[15:43] Speaker 2: American people don't give a shit about foreign policy. We
[15:45] Speaker 2: love this podcast is on geopolitics.
[15:48] Speaker 1: They don't excited.
[15:49] Speaker 2: It's not actually, let me change that. It's not that
[15:50] Speaker 2: they don't care. They don't vote on it.
[15:52] Speaker 1: Yeah, they vote like their fifth level fifth getting down and.
[15:56] Speaker 2: So and they vote in their pocketbook, and their pocketbook
[15:59] Speaker 2: is not good. The pocket book, by the way, is
[16:00] Speaker 2: great if you invest in the stock market. Yeah, Nick,
[16:03] Speaker 2: stock markets that an all time I My portfolio is
[16:06] Speaker 2: crushing it. I'm as happy as can be. I'm gonna
[16:08] Speaker 2: go out and buy another jeep. Yeah. But but that
[16:11] Speaker 2: doesn't mean that eighty five percent of Americans are are
[16:14] Speaker 2: feeling good about things, because they're not.
[16:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, it is interesting to see how the stock market's
[16:19] Speaker 1: going off. And you know, oil is higher, you know,
[16:22] Speaker 1: especially in the you know, in Southeast Asia, those those
[16:26] Speaker 1: countries are getting smoked in terms of how much it
[16:29] Speaker 1: costs for a barrel. But like the disconnect between the
[16:34] Speaker 1: price of oil, what's happening in the straight oh Horn
[16:36] Speaker 1: moves and the American stock market is something insane. I mean,
[16:41] Speaker 1: it's all it's all juiced up with AI money, essentially,
[16:44] Speaker 1: and like the promise of AI money.
[16:46] Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so yeah, So a lot of people might
[16:49] Speaker 2: be getting rich in America, but not most Americans. And
[16:52] Speaker 2: that's the bottom line on that. And so it's a uh,
[16:55] Speaker 2: you know, there's there's a you know that that line.
[16:57] Speaker 2: I mean again, the Trump administration. You can't criticize everything
[17:01] Speaker 2: that they do. Uh. But but and I think often
[17:05] Speaker 2: there are actions that the administration takes which you know,
[17:08] Speaker 2: for example, we'll talk about counter terrorism. There's a couple
[17:10] Speaker 2: of counter terrorism operations that I think were really good
[17:12] Speaker 2: that that occurred over the last seventy two hours. The
[17:15] Speaker 2: problem is Trump then goes on a TV interview and says,
[17:18] Speaker 2: you know, he doesn't really care that that things are
[17:21] Speaker 2: more expensive for Americans. I mean, it's a it's a
[17:23] Speaker 2: re Antoinette moment, you know, her famous line, let them
[17:26] Speaker 2: eat cake. Trump is like a walking campaign ad sometimes
[17:30] Speaker 2: for the Democrats, which he doesn't have to be. It's
[17:32] Speaker 2: it's very strange. All you have to say is, yes,
[17:35] Speaker 2: you know, American people are hurting. I understand that, right.
[17:38] Speaker 1: I mean, inflation's almost at four percent.
[17:41] Speaker 2: Yeah, and so so that and and I think that
[17:43] Speaker 2: probably there's a lot of Republican members in the in
[17:46] Speaker 2: the House who are very nervous about uh, their standing. Now.
[17:50] Speaker 1: If they're not nervous, they're fucking crazy, Yeah, because the
[17:53] Speaker 1: numbers are on the wall, and it maybe even like
[17:54] Speaker 1: the Senate might be in play as well, which is
[17:58] Speaker 1: insane to see that just get just you never know, listen,
[18:03] Speaker 1: when you're promised getting out of wars and not being
[18:06] Speaker 1: in forever wars, and then you go and spend probably
[18:09] Speaker 1: fifty to seventy billion dollars and six weeks in Iran,
[18:13] Speaker 1: thirteen service members dot. You know, service folks die over
[18:17] Speaker 1: a couple hundred injured, one of our equipment fucked up,
[18:21] Speaker 1: and you know, you know, probably things that will take
[18:24] Speaker 1: years to bring back, like all those radars and stuff
[18:27] Speaker 1: like that. At a different basis, Yeah, yeah, if even
[18:31] Speaker 1: you know, make America great again, it's like, where is that?
[18:34] Speaker 1: Because my my, my eggs are fucking expensive.
[18:38] Speaker 2: Yeah, and my gas. He's never been on the teamhouse
[18:41] Speaker 2: rise On. I don't think he would, but he's former
[18:44] Speaker 2: a Deaf group guy and his son's a Seal two.
[18:46] Speaker 2: And I remember I've been talked him for a while,
[18:48] Speaker 2: but I remember when I was I asked him the
[18:49] Speaker 2: first time around, why'd you vot for Trump? And he said,
[18:51] Speaker 2: very clearly, he said, because I don't want my kid
[18:52] Speaker 2: going into combat. And so just as that kind of
[18:56] Speaker 2: fundamental notion of America now embroiled and more conflict is
[19:00] Speaker 2: something that it's you know, it is kind of head scratching.
[19:03] Speaker 2: But uh, you know, to uh, when I say to Tump,
[19:07] Speaker 2: to Trump's credit, I think he's doing what he thinks
[19:10] Speaker 2: is right. Uh, it might not be right, but but
[19:13] Speaker 2: ultimately you know, he's uh, you know when when he says, hey,
[19:17] Speaker 2: he's the first American president to tackle Iran in ways
[19:20] Speaker 2: that others have, that is correct. I just wish and
[19:23] Speaker 2: I go back to something that we've talked about a
[19:25] Speaker 2: lot on the pod is that we had people who
[19:26] Speaker 2: knew what they were doing. You can have a president
[19:28] Speaker 2: who's kind of out there a bit, and and and
[19:31] Speaker 2: and and an outlier, and that's Trump. But there's no
[19:34] Speaker 2: James Mattis around. There's no there's no adults in in
[19:37] Speaker 2: actually executing a political, political, and military strategy that where
[19:41] Speaker 2: we could have come out on top and absent that
[19:44] Speaker 2: this is not going to be a success.
[19:46] Speaker 1: Is there everyone? Man? I mean, like I heard, just
[19:48] Speaker 1: HEA's pretty fucking well entrenched in that country.
[19:52] Speaker 2: I mean the things I don't know about. I don't
[19:54] Speaker 2: know the kind of COVID action operation running beforehand. You know,
[19:58] Speaker 2: certainly there are things we could do with our allies
[20:00] Speaker 2: and the preparation before such a campaign that that we
[20:03] Speaker 2: probably didn't do. I mean, there's a lot of operational
[20:05] Speaker 2: prep of the environment that that, you know, in order
[20:08] Speaker 2: to kind of go after the Irunian regime. And I
[20:11] Speaker 2: don't know if we did.
[20:12] Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be good if there was like ground branch
[20:14] Speaker 1: teams and SF teams in there already doing.
[20:16] Speaker 2: That or other you know, not not not even necessarily inside,
[20:21] Speaker 2: but just you know, some type of covert activity. And
[20:24] Speaker 2: I don't know if we've done that or not. I
[20:26] Speaker 2: just tend to think that we might not have, only
[20:28] Speaker 2: because they seem to have kind of concocted this on
[20:30] Speaker 2: a napkin in the ovalalls. And so.
[20:34] Speaker 1: Your mattress is one of those things you don't think
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[22:15] Speaker 1: And it seems like just a lot of wishful thinking happening. Man,
[22:18] Speaker 1: and some CIA officer told me, like the the enemy
[22:22] Speaker 1: of like everything is wishful thinking. There's something to that effect.
[22:25] Speaker 2: Like a strategy, and there's yeah, there's all these kind.
[22:27] Speaker 1: Of yeah, and it's it's I don't know if there
[22:31] Speaker 1: ever was a strategy unless you have three four hundred
[22:34] Speaker 1: thousand American troops ready to rock and you know, get
[22:38] Speaker 1: you know, parachuting into Tehran.
[22:41] Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know what, uh, you know, with with
[22:44] Speaker 2: that not on the table as well, by the way,
[22:47] Speaker 2: and that's going to horrify people. Maybe if I say this,
[22:49] Speaker 2: taking that off the table means the Iranians are not
[22:52] Speaker 2: scared of us. It would have been far better to
[22:55] Speaker 2: have that on the table. But because Trump promised no more,
[22:58] Speaker 2: no more wars, he said, had that very you know,
[23:01] Speaker 2: he was very clear. I mean they kind of nuanced
[23:03] Speaker 2: a little bit, said nothing's they you know, there are
[23:06] Speaker 2: no other No, there's no options that we wouldn't consider.
[23:09] Speaker 2: But everybody knew that that was possibility. It would have
[23:12] Speaker 2: been better if the Iranians thought, holy crap, this crazy
[23:14] Speaker 2: guy might send half a million Americans there. Now, maybe it.
[23:18] Speaker 1: Would be believable with Trump because he's such a wild
[23:20] Speaker 1: card like that. Oh yeah, he would send a bunch
[23:23] Speaker 1: of like, you know, hundreds of thousands of troops because.
[23:24] Speaker 2: Like that, the regime doesn't feel threatened.
[23:26] Speaker 1: America is not interested in sending fucking regular kids, right right,
[23:33] Speaker 1: So like me too, And I love the military, I
[23:35] Speaker 1: love the intelligence community. I think they have roles to play.
[23:38] Speaker 1: I'm a fan, but like, yeah, we can't do that
[23:40] Speaker 1: shit again. Yeah, it was. It was just a strategic blunder.
[23:44] Speaker 1: I would say, doing this is let me ask you
[23:47] Speaker 1: this before we get in to the c the new
[23:49] Speaker 1: CT strategy. Like let's say you were in the CIA,
[23:53] Speaker 1: you know, if you were on the Iran desk a
[23:55] Speaker 1: running it and ye Ayatola got smoked and like forty
[23:59] Speaker 1: other top guys have gotten smoke. And now there's obviously
[24:01] Speaker 1: like a vacuum and things are rearranging. Are you guys
[24:05] Speaker 1: like pulling your hair out at CIA to try and
[24:09] Speaker 1: figure out who's making the fucking decisions here?
[24:12] Speaker 2: And like, yeah, yeah, of course. So the key thing
[24:14] Speaker 2: on this now, Iran is a hard target. It's a
[24:15] Speaker 2: great question, de and it's something that I think I've
[24:18] Speaker 2: raised here before. I don't know the quality of intelligence
[24:20] Speaker 2: we have on Iran. You go back to back in
[24:24] Speaker 2: twenty eleven, twenty twelve, and I will be very careful.
[24:26] Speaker 2: This is as reported in the press. There were very
[24:29] Speaker 2: significant compromises of CIA's agent networks. And so when I
[24:33] Speaker 2: say Iron's a hard target, it's obviously we don't have
[24:35] Speaker 2: a diplomatic presence there. The CIO officers are not on
[24:37] Speaker 2: the ground, State Department's not on the ground, US military
[24:40] Speaker 2: not in the ground, and so you know, and so
[24:43] Speaker 2: so you know, do we have clandestine collection or even
[24:46] Speaker 2: signals intelligence too that tells us the plans and intentions
[24:50] Speaker 2: of Iron's leaders. And I don't know the answer to that.
[24:52] Speaker 2: And you know, without boots on the ground, without that
[24:56] Speaker 2: kind of that level of granularity on intelligence, you know,
[25:00] Speaker 2: it makes makes things a lot harder. And so I
[25:02] Speaker 2: think that you know, the agency. There's two parts of it.
[25:04] Speaker 2: One is what we call FI collection foreign intelligence collection,
[25:07] Speaker 2: and that's what are the Iranians going to do, what's
[25:09] Speaker 2: the running order of battle for the military, what's their
[25:11] Speaker 2: decision making? You know, what's the health of the Supreme leader?
[25:14] Speaker 2: Is the IRGC really kind of the dominant faction and
[25:16] Speaker 2: control who's on top, you know, who's who's who in
[25:19] Speaker 2: the zoo? And then the other part of it would
[25:22] Speaker 2: be more of kind of the the tactical part, the
[25:24] Speaker 2: pattern of life of individuals, you know, how to support
[25:26] Speaker 2: US military strikes. Yeah, but again I don't know the
[25:30] Speaker 2: level of intelligence collection that we have, and and with
[25:35] Speaker 2: that in mind, uh, it makes it hard then to
[25:38] Speaker 2: even and so then you kind of and that's that's
[25:40] Speaker 2: some types of collection. Then you have the covert action side,
[25:42] Speaker 2: is are there elements of any kind of Iranian opposition
[25:45] Speaker 2: figures inside who we can be working with? I mean,
[25:47] Speaker 2: President Trump has actually been complaining that there was some
[25:49] Speaker 2: kind of a boarded covert action effort where we gave
[25:52] Speaker 2: arms to the Iranian courts and they stole all the weapons.
[25:54] Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, which and he never should be talking
[25:57] Speaker 2: about this in public at all. But you know, what
[26:00] Speaker 2: does that even mean? Was there a COVID action plan?
[26:02] Speaker 2: So lots of questions, but but I don't know, And
[26:05] Speaker 2: I don't think there's enough scrutiny. The nationalist curding media
[26:07] Speaker 2: has failed on this. But there should be much more
[26:09] Speaker 2: scrutiny of the degree of success that CIS had in
[26:13] Speaker 2: penetrating the Iranian regime.
[26:14] Speaker 1: Wow, I'm sure we I mean, we had him clock
[26:16] Speaker 1: pretty fucking good right before, you know, you know, in
[26:19] Speaker 1: twenty twenty when we smoked SOLEMANI like we had him.
[26:22] Speaker 1: We knew where he was going in his movement.
[26:24] Speaker 2: That's a way different type of collection. That's pattern of
[26:26] Speaker 2: life on an individual. That's putting someone on the X.
[26:29] Speaker 2: That's not recruiting someone in the inner circle. Sure of
[26:32] Speaker 2: the Supreme leader and those those are the decisions that
[26:35] Speaker 2: that I mean right now. So here's here's what we
[26:37] Speaker 2: need to have. I don't know if we have it,
[26:39] Speaker 2: and and and and agents. I've run in the past
[26:42] Speaker 2: penetrations of foreign governments. We did have this level of penetration.
[26:45] Speaker 2: We need the talking points that the Iranians were going
[26:47] Speaker 2: to use in Pakistan. Got sure the talking points? Yeah,
[26:52] Speaker 2: I'm holding up a check right now. I don't even
[26:54] Speaker 2: know what this is for. We need we need those
[26:57] Speaker 2: talking points, and if you don't have that, you know,
[27:00] Speaker 2: we are out of We're at a disadvantage diplomatically. So
[27:03] Speaker 2: while we can put someone on the exp a kinetic strike,
[27:05] Speaker 2: that's awesome, that's patternal life. That's recruiting the janitor. Yeah,
[27:08] Speaker 2: that's not plans and intentions. Strategic long term intelligence hard
[27:12] Speaker 2: to do. Yeah, So like someone's assistant or something like that.
[27:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, if anyone's listening out there and they want to
[27:20] Speaker 1: make like a couple hundred thousand dollars a month, hey here,
[27:22] Speaker 1: great opportunity.
[27:23] Speaker 2: No, you contact D, and D will be your front.
[27:26] Speaker 1: Yeah. I'll totally be the middleman.
[27:28] Speaker 2: A little cut. You gotta get a little little.
[27:31] Speaker 1: In America, for God's sake, I'm facilitating Trump administration.
[27:35] Speaker 2: Will understand that, because I think that's what we do now.
[27:38] Speaker 2: It's all about getting your slice, you know.
[27:40] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[27:40] Speaker 3: You know.
[27:41] Speaker 2: One of the funny things that reminds me of the
[27:43] Speaker 2: United This is digressing a little bit. When I was
[27:44] Speaker 2: in Jordan, I did several tours in Jordan, and the
[27:47] Speaker 2: Jordanians are amazing allies. But we'd always joke that some
[27:49] Speaker 2: of the Jordanians security officials when they came into positions
[27:52] Speaker 2: of power, would have several years to make themselves as
[27:54] Speaker 2: rich as possible before they got caught and fired. I
[27:57] Speaker 2: think I think we're there.
[27:59] Speaker 1: The g I D is bullshit, right, no bullshit.
[28:02] Speaker 2: But same thing even fired successively for corruption. Yeah, and so,
[28:07] Speaker 2: but they're a great ally, tremendous ally and great partners
[28:09] Speaker 2: and and really helped in the in the GYT. And
[28:13] Speaker 2: you know that we always consider Jordan kind of our
[28:15] Speaker 2: lily pad. Yeah, in the Middle least to do a
[28:17] Speaker 2: lot of cool stuff.
[28:19] Speaker 1: All right, Moving to the new counter terrorism strategy. They
[28:22] Speaker 1: haven't been coming out like usually there's a national defense
[28:24] Speaker 1: strategy or whatever like every year. Uh, this comes out
[28:27] Speaker 1: like maybe once every four or five years. Like it's
[28:29] Speaker 1: not exactly like every year thing. So you'd think there'd
[28:33] Speaker 1: be a little bit more thought that went into it slightly,
[28:36] Speaker 1: But it's like sixteen pages. You guys can take a
[28:38] Speaker 1: look at it. Just go to like White House dot go.
[28:40] Speaker 1: You can read the bullshit that they put. It's extremely partisan. Yeah,
[28:45] Speaker 1: you know, Joe Biden's mentioned like a ton of times.
[28:48] Speaker 1: It's it's why you know, and like we still have
[28:51] Speaker 1: to go after the you know, Islamic terrorists and stuff
[28:54] Speaker 1: like that. You know, our bread and butter, what make
[28:56] Speaker 1: Mark a millionaire, you know why he made the big
[28:59] Speaker 1: bucks over the last twenty five years. But then we
[29:01] Speaker 1: also have to watch out forranktifa and someone.
[29:05] Speaker 2: The transgender terrorists.
[29:06] Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. That no real mention about like you know,
[29:10] Speaker 1: far right wing terrorism or extremists and stuff like that,
[29:14] Speaker 1: which we know exist. Like, sorry, guys, it's just the
[29:17] Speaker 1: truth in you know, America. It was it was just insane.
[29:22] Speaker 1: It was an insane partisan document that like, aren't you
[29:24] Speaker 1: supposed to have smart people work on this, Like you.
[29:26] Speaker 2: Know, well we don't because only one person worked on this,
[29:30] Speaker 2: and that's the director of counter Terrorism with the National
[29:31] Speaker 2: Security Council, someone by the name of Sebastian Corka, who
[29:35] Speaker 2: is kind of this kind of member of the right wing.
[29:38] Speaker 2: He worked in the first Trump administration for about five
[29:40] Speaker 2: minutes before he couldn't get a security clearance and was removed. Uh,
[29:44] Speaker 2: he's insane. Let's just be very clear. This is not
[29:47] Speaker 2: right versus left, It is not Democrat versus Republican. He
[29:49] Speaker 2: is totally unqualified for this and he wrote this on
[29:53] Speaker 2: his own. Now, ordinarily, the NSC document like this would
[29:56] Speaker 2: be part of kind of an interagency process. You know,
[29:59] Speaker 2: the NSC is the coordinating body in the United States
[30:02] Speaker 2: government that's supposed to take input from the intelligence community,
[30:05] Speaker 2: from the military, from the Department of Treasury, from the
[30:07] Speaker 2: diplomatic community, the State Department, and others and put together
[30:12] Speaker 2: a strategy and a whole of government strategy. Yet this
[30:16] Speaker 2: was insane. Parts of it. Okay, are fine, you know,
[30:20] Speaker 2: do we have to go go after Islamic extremism? Absolutely,
[30:23] Speaker 2: But let's go over the strategy one by one because
[30:26] Speaker 2: this is something because I read it and everyone is
[30:27] Speaker 2: in kind of disbelief. There's nobody in the counter terrorism
[30:30] Speaker 2: world who thinks this was anything other than a giant
[30:32] Speaker 2: piece of piece of giant turd. And even those of
[30:36] Speaker 2: my friends kind of who are the maga curious types
[30:38] Speaker 2: and from the right, and that's fine, but they're like,
[30:42] Speaker 2: oh my god, look at this thing. So it starts
[30:43] Speaker 2: off with the notion that the biggest counter terrorism threat
[30:46] Speaker 2: is narco traffickers. Now are narco traffickers and the issue
[30:49] Speaker 2: for the United States government absolutely? You know, Traditionally we
[30:53] Speaker 2: would go after them based on counter narcotics strategy, which
[30:57] Speaker 2: had to do with law enforcement, the military, you know,
[31:00] Speaker 2: liaison partners, public health as well. But they're but they're
[31:05] Speaker 2: kind of now saying that this is the biggest terrorism
[31:07] Speaker 2: threat because they're using terrorism authorities to go kill them
[31:10] Speaker 2: as we're drilling people on boats.
[31:12] Speaker 1: And also active on the ground and active.
[31:15] Speaker 2: On the ground too, and so and so I think
[31:16] Speaker 2: that's a mistake. I think it's apples and oranges. You know,
[31:20] Speaker 2: America has a demand for drugs. America does not have
[31:23] Speaker 2: a demand for terrorists, right, and so that's not to
[31:27] Speaker 2: say this is not an issue. Fentanyl is a massive issue.
[31:30] Speaker 2: But the idea that this should be done under the
[31:33] Speaker 2: CT authorities is I think is is nuts. And the
[31:37] Speaker 2: problem with that is you then divert resources, as we
[31:41] Speaker 2: have talked about, I think on aison in the past.
[31:44] Speaker 2: But you know, certainly members of the CIA have been
[31:47] Speaker 2: diverted from the threat against islamicastorism extremism. They're down in Mexico.
[31:51] Speaker 2: In fact, tragically, two CIO officers were killed got in
[31:54] Speaker 2: Mexico recently doing things that we used to do in
[31:59] Speaker 2: the war on in the g WAT and so and
[32:02] Speaker 2: so I think that I think that elevating narco traffickers
[32:05] Speaker 2: to this terrorism uh you know uh on the terrorism
[32:08] Speaker 2: paradigm is not smart. But the but the part of
[32:10] Speaker 2: it which gets a little nuts Dan you noted it
[32:12] Speaker 2: is the politicization. And so I mean literally transgender ideology
[32:16] Speaker 2: and Antifa, two very nebulous groups. Have transgendered people been
[32:21] Speaker 2: involved in terrorism? Sure, but just think about if I
[32:24] Speaker 2: was sitting in London Station and I was going to
[32:26] Speaker 2: my colleagues and the British Intelligence Service at s I
[32:28] Speaker 2: S and saying, let's talk CT and they're like, all right,
[32:31] Speaker 2: let's talk you know, al Kaita in the Raveond Peninsula isole. No, no, no,
[32:35] Speaker 2: thank you.
[32:35] Speaker 1: We got to talk about the real fucking.
[32:37] Speaker 2: No no no no no yeah. Because the White House
[32:39] Speaker 2: has said we're talking about transgender.
[32:41] Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying, yea like stop yeah.
[32:43] Speaker 2: And then we would be laughed out of the room.
[32:46] Speaker 2: So this is preposterous.
[32:48] Speaker 1: Uh.
[32:49] Speaker 2: Alongside of that, which is of course blatant politicization, and
[32:52] Speaker 2: it's just not it's going to be ignored. No CI
[32:54] Speaker 2: officer is going to ever approach the Foreign leaves On
[32:57] Speaker 2: Service on this. But the other part of it is.
[32:58] Speaker 2: They don't talk about right wing terrorism. And since two
[33:01] Speaker 2: thousand and one, eighty five percent of terrorism domestically in
[33:06] Speaker 2: the US has been carried out by the right. That's
[33:08] Speaker 2: not to say there's not left wing terrorism. It exists.
[33:11] Speaker 2: It should be investigated, we should put the full power
[33:13] Speaker 2: in the US government against it, one hundred percent on
[33:15] Speaker 2: for that. But not even to mention the right wing
[33:18] Speaker 2: terrorism is insane because the data is very clear. Now
[33:22] Speaker 2: you have high profile events like the assassination of Charlie
[33:25] Speaker 2: Kirk undertaken by the left or whatever that person was.
[33:28] Speaker 2: I think that was the transgender thing that people freaked
[33:30] Speaker 2: out about. But again, the data shows that the majority
[33:33] Speaker 2: of the terrorism comes from from the right, and so
[33:35] Speaker 2: just mention it. By not mentioning it, it's crazy. I
[33:39] Speaker 2: think the.
[33:39] Speaker 1: Last writing it for one guy be honest.
[33:42] Speaker 2: Writing, but it's just it was there was typos in it.
[33:44] Speaker 2: I mean, it was just it was nonsensical kind of blather.
[33:46] Speaker 1: It was.
[33:47] Speaker 2: It's almost fun to respond to. And there's people in
[33:50] Speaker 2: the CT world, whether it's Colin Clark or Jacob Ware
[33:53] Speaker 2: or others who are really smart on this who immediately said,
[33:55] Speaker 2: this is a big load of shit. And we're very
[33:58] Speaker 2: vocal on it. Uh. And and but the last part
[34:01] Speaker 2: of it, which I think is the most important part
[34:03] Speaker 2: in this I think will resonate with the audience here,
[34:05] Speaker 2: is that, you know, uh, there has to be a
[34:07] Speaker 2: whole government approach, and there has to be the use
[34:10] Speaker 2: of what we used, what we had in the past,
[34:11] Speaker 2: which is American soft power. You know, so you cannot
[34:14] Speaker 2: kill our way out of this problem. Every CT expert,
[34:17] Speaker 2: you know, if Mick was on here and him and
[34:19] Speaker 2: I did CT stuff, they'd say the same thing. Soft
[34:21] Speaker 2: power means, you know, the US Department of State, it
[34:24] Speaker 2: means what we used to have in the in the
[34:25] Speaker 2: U s A. I d gone. Now you know, General
[34:28] Speaker 2: madis who uh and I'm gonna botch his quote, but
[34:31] Speaker 2: essentially he said, you know, if we don't have diplomacy,
[34:34] Speaker 2: if we don't have soft power, I got to buy
[34:35] Speaker 2: more ammunition.
[34:36] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[34:37] Speaker 2: And so ultimately not having a soft power straight because
[34:40] Speaker 2: get terrorists thrive in places where there uh you know,
[34:44] Speaker 2: there's lack of kind of government on government spaces. I'm sorry,
[34:48] Speaker 2: terrorism thrives when there's uh you know, uh, you know,
[34:51] Speaker 2: a terrible poverty. And so the US government has had
[34:54] Speaker 2: a huge role to play in that counter radicalization programs.
[34:58] Speaker 1: Right.
[34:58] Speaker 2: But but but the document basically says we're killing our
[35:01] Speaker 2: way out of this problem. And uh, and that's just
[35:04] Speaker 2: that's not that's not a strategy. That's certainly not a solution.
[35:07] Speaker 2: And this is coming from someone who did a lot
[35:09] Speaker 2: of those things and I believe in that. But I
[35:11] Speaker 2: was a very small piece of the pie and important.
[35:14] Speaker 2: But there's got to be other stuff too. So the
[35:15] Speaker 2: whole ct strategy is just is just comical and it's sad.
[35:18] Speaker 2: And the problem is if it was just a speech
[35:20] Speaker 2: Trump gave, who cares. But but it's not. It's this,
[35:24] Speaker 2: it's the strategy that comes from the White House, and
[35:26] Speaker 2: that means resources are are pushed that way. And that's
[35:29] Speaker 2: the that's the key part of this. I don't care
[35:31] Speaker 2: what's what what Gorka or the President really think. I
[35:34] Speaker 2: care what you know, how many billions, millions or billions
[35:37] Speaker 2: certain entities in the US government get to tackle this issue.
[35:39] Speaker 2: But resources are going to emanate from this document. Now,
[35:43] Speaker 2: with all that in mind, there were a couple of
[35:45] Speaker 2: counter terrorism successes. Recently, we killed a senior is ISIS
[35:50] Speaker 2: member in Nigeria, Elmanuki is his name, of course the
[35:55] Speaker 2: administration and as only they can exaggerate it. He said
[35:58] Speaker 2: he was the number two isis guy worldwide? That's not true.
[36:01] Speaker 2: He was important and it's a great strike. At the
[36:04] Speaker 2: same time, we arrested in Turkey the leading figure in
[36:07] Speaker 2: Kata Pizbola, which is an Iraqi sheer group supported by Iran.
[36:10] Speaker 2: Great great get no doubt.
[36:12] Speaker 1: What's he doing hanging in Turkey?
[36:14] Speaker 2: Well, I think he was en route to Russia. That's
[36:17] Speaker 2: kind of interesting. Katak Hizballa has been involved in the
[36:19] Speaker 2: deaths of Americans and he was responsible for and now
[36:22] Speaker 2: it's coming out all these kind of mysterious attacks against
[36:25] Speaker 2: Jewish targets globally after the war in Iran started. And
[36:28] Speaker 2: so that's a really good a good operation that was
[36:32] Speaker 2: that was carried out. Interestingly, though nothing in the document says, hey,
[36:36] Speaker 2: by the way, because of our activities in Iran, in Iran,
[36:39] Speaker 2: terrorism may explode now, which is what was all of
[36:42] Speaker 2: our worry. And so now we have this really big
[36:45] Speaker 2: takedown that everyone is outing. Yet it's in the CT strategy.
[36:48] Speaker 2: There's no mention that our actions in Iran right actually
[36:54] Speaker 2: will have kind of pushed pushed such such states and
[36:59] Speaker 2: and you know, one of the things is that you
[37:00] Speaker 2: know and and again this d this is going to
[37:02] Speaker 2: go back to my I cite the Israelis a lot,
[37:05] Speaker 2: but I when I work with the Israelis, and they
[37:07] Speaker 2: would think about undertaking some type of kinetic operation, and
[37:10] Speaker 2: they would be very clear in their cost benefit analysis.
[37:12] Speaker 2: They would say, if we do this a solo money
[37:15] Speaker 2: type thing, we're going to lose an embassy. We're willing
[37:19] Speaker 2: to do that. This administration ours has never done that.
[37:21] Speaker 2: They never said, you know what, was there ever a
[37:23] Speaker 2: document task the intelligence community saying if we if we
[37:27] Speaker 2: go after Iran, if we launched this war, these are
[37:29] Speaker 2: the things, mister President, that are going to occur. Americans
[37:32] Speaker 2: are going to die in terrorist at tax overseas. And
[37:34] Speaker 2: I don't think that happened. And that's the right way
[37:36] Speaker 2: to look at these things, because nothing comes free.
[37:38] Speaker 1: There's no not even overseas either. It's like we've had
[37:40] Speaker 1: it was like lone WF guys.
[37:42] Speaker 2: Yeah, there's been Austin.
[37:44] Speaker 1: Who was inspired by the Eriny thing, the kid whose
[37:47] Speaker 1: family members lived in Lebanon.
[37:49] Speaker 2: And the Irans to avenge this stuff. And so so
[37:53] Speaker 2: that's where that's where I think, Uh, but the CT
[37:56] Speaker 2: strategy is just just a mess and you just kind
[37:58] Speaker 2: of shake your head. And because the pro problem is
[38:00] Speaker 2: that in this administration there are not people who served
[38:03] Speaker 2: in the first Trump administration because they don't want to.
[38:06] Speaker 2: And but Nick is a perfect example. Mick was in
[38:08] Speaker 2: the first Trump administration, great American, did great stuff there.
[38:11] Speaker 2: But there's I don't think Nick would would I'm not
[38:14] Speaker 2: going to speak for him anyhow, but uh, but you know,
[38:17] Speaker 2: you don't have kind of experts there now who would
[38:20] Speaker 2: be able to, uh, to help on such act strategy,
[38:24] Speaker 2: and so you get this kind of kind of piece
[38:26] Speaker 2: of garbage as a document and uh and uh, but
[38:29] Speaker 2: it's there and they're proud of it. That's the other thing.
[38:30] Speaker 2: There's no and Gorka is running around in the media
[38:33] Speaker 2: saying how great this is.
[38:35] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's unbelievable. Really, the cognitive dissonance that's like just
[38:39] Speaker 1: just plain it's just plain as day. It's not even
[38:41] Speaker 1: like they're not even trying to hide it. I think
[38:43] Speaker 1: it's fucking scary, you know, for you're an American citizen
[38:46] Speaker 1: who maybe lean's left, or if you're a transgender person,
[38:49] Speaker 1: like come on, bro, what are we talking about?
[38:51] Speaker 2: I would say, if you're a centrist, I mean just
[38:53] Speaker 2: anything a regular American, Like, it's just weird. What are
[38:56] Speaker 2: we doing talking about antifa and and uh and and
[38:59] Speaker 2: transgender ideology when it comes to counter terrorism, that's just
[39:02] Speaker 2: kind of strange. Now about left wing terrorism? Sure, yeah,
[39:07] Speaker 2: you know and uh and and of course in the
[39:09] Speaker 2: no mention of kind of terrorism, but that just you know,
[39:12] Speaker 2: from the right, but that just kind of you have it,
[39:14] Speaker 2: like all you have to do is write a normal document, right, Like,
[39:17] Speaker 2: why can't they just do that?
[39:19] Speaker 1: I don't know, bro, I don't like the who.
[39:21] Speaker 2: Are from the center and are still critics adminstration would say, hey,
[39:25] Speaker 2: that was pretty good, right, I like that, Yeah, you know,
[39:28] Speaker 2: but that's they can't even do something like that because
[39:30] Speaker 2: it's so politicized everything is, And that to me is
[39:33] Speaker 2: the kind of the tragedy this. I say to my
[39:34] Speaker 2: Republican friends, and I have millions of them, I'm like,
[39:37] Speaker 2: how do you defend this? And they just kind of shrug.
[39:41] Speaker 1: You know that's bad. Bro. Let me ask you this.
[39:45] Speaker 1: You mentioned like how the Israelis do like they're calculus
[39:47] Speaker 1: on like when they want to go connectic do you
[39:49] Speaker 1: think that calculus has kind of changed a little bit
[39:52] Speaker 1: since October seventh, and like yes, you know what I mean,
[39:55] Speaker 1: like in terms of like what they're expecting blowback to be.
[39:58] Speaker 1: You know, are they even thinking of that anymore? Did
[40:00] Speaker 1: they expect when we US and them hit on February
[40:04] Speaker 1: twenty eighth Iran that they would Iran would respond so
[40:09] Speaker 1: aggressively frankly.
[40:11] Speaker 2: You're asking you ask better questions to me than you
[40:13] Speaker 2: do when the other people around the group.
[40:15] Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's easier when it's one or two people.
[40:17] Speaker 2: Now, I know. But so great question. I think October
[40:20] Speaker 2: seventh changed the mentality of Israeli national security officials massively.
[40:26] Speaker 2: You know, there is no more kind of tolerance for
[40:29] Speaker 2: any kind of risk. And now the problem also is
[40:32] Speaker 2: that NETYA was also drunk on power and drunk on
[40:35] Speaker 2: using the military, and Israeli diplomacy could actually be just
[40:38] Speaker 2: as effective on some of these things, and some in
[40:40] Speaker 2: deterrence as well. BUTTNYA, who the second this war end
[40:43] Speaker 2: is going to face elections and so you know, there's
[40:45] Speaker 2: no so that is really kind of screwed a lot
[40:47] Speaker 2: of things up. But my friends in Israel definitely are
[40:49] Speaker 2: traumatized understandably from October seventh. And and so you know,
[40:53] Speaker 2: the kind of the fallback on using the Israeli military
[40:57] Speaker 2: or intelligence services. You know, I think the the aperture
[41:00] Speaker 2: is much wider now, the appetite for that. But but
[41:03] Speaker 2: it's also changing because there's friends of mine too who
[41:05] Speaker 2: are like, you know what, we're exhausted. The idef is exhausted.
[41:09] Speaker 2: Uh and uh uh and and all these promises that
[41:12] Speaker 2: net and you made about keeping us safer, you know,
[41:15] Speaker 2: I'm not so sure now. And and look look exactly
[41:18] Speaker 2: what you know, the Israelis just killed that the leading
[41:21] Speaker 2: military official in Gaza. Again a great operation, but Hamas
[41:26] Speaker 2: still controls Gaza. They're not just there's a ceasefire sort of,
[41:31] Speaker 2: but ultimately.
[41:32] Speaker 1: They're still bombing you know kids. Yeah, but you.
[41:35] Speaker 2: Know, so so what has you know, what what has
[41:37] Speaker 2: been the promises that the Israeli political kind of echelon
[41:41] Speaker 2: have made to Israeli public have not been have not
[41:44] Speaker 2: have not come come forward? And uh and so you
[41:47] Speaker 2: know there is that notion again of you know, it's
[41:50] Speaker 2: the idea of military you know, military uh uh operations.
[41:54] Speaker 2: Kinnetic capabilities are really important, but it's just one piece
[41:57] Speaker 2: of the pot. I mean think about right now, if
[42:01] Speaker 2: net yahoo and he can't do it because he's kind
[42:03] Speaker 2: of he is, he's reliant on the crazy right wing
[42:06] Speaker 2: in Israel for his political survivor survival. But if he
[42:09] Speaker 2: actually said it any point after October seventh, yes, there
[42:12] Speaker 2: will be peace with the Palestinians. There will be a
[42:14] Speaker 2: Palestinian state. The Saudis would have signed on. This is
[42:17] Speaker 2: before the Iran war. The Saudis would have signed on
[42:19] Speaker 2: to the Abraham Accords. There would have been a peace
[42:21] Speaker 2: treaty between Israel and Saudi Arabia, and you can and
[42:24] Speaker 2: that would have changed.
[42:24] Speaker 1: And Gavi would have had him.
[42:26] Speaker 2: Killed, but that would have changed the region. If he
[42:28] Speaker 2: had done so, the Israeli government falls. But there's a
[42:30] Speaker 2: peace treaty with the Saudis. That's unbelievable. And then you
[42:33] Speaker 2: have this absolute uh kind of alliance of the Sunni
[42:39] Speaker 2: Gulf Arab states and Israel against who against Iran. And
[42:43] Speaker 2: perhaps we would have been better off globally right there
[42:47] Speaker 2: rather than what you have right now. But you know
[42:51] Speaker 2: that's kind of just wishful thinking for sure. I mean, yeah,
[42:54] Speaker 2: but Mohammad bin Salmon, the Saudis were ready they just
[42:57] Speaker 2: had to say something, give us something.
[42:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, I get it, and and and.
[43:02] Speaker 2: And Bebe couldn't do it for his political survival. But
[43:05] Speaker 2: also I think there was a lot of trauma after
[43:06] Speaker 2: October seventh. Then it's just too bad.
[43:08] Speaker 1: It's sad. Yeah, I guess. Uh. You see BB sixty
[43:13] Speaker 1: minute interview.
[43:15] Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was designed for the American audience.
[43:18] Speaker 1: Only fucking nonsense seventy year olds. The fucking seventy year olds.
[43:23] Speaker 1: Who's gonna buy that bullshit?
[43:24] Speaker 2: So, I mean, ultimately, the the you know, he does
[43:26] Speaker 2: this for the US audience. And and CBS wasn't really.
[43:31] Speaker 1: Well Barry Weiss gave him the choice choice of who
[43:33] Speaker 1: to have as.
[43:34] Speaker 2: An interviewer, and they also edited a lot of stuff.
[43:36] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, come on, it's.
[43:37] Speaker 2: A big deal because they remember they didn't Trump sue them.
[43:40] Speaker 1: Or something like Trump suit. Yeah.
[43:41] Speaker 2: Correct, we're being positive positivity.
[43:46] Speaker 1: I was about to be very negative.
[43:48] Speaker 2: Just now positivity. Let's see what I bring up positive about?
[43:51] Speaker 2: Can I bring up one thing? You know that the
[43:53] Speaker 2: Israel is suing the New York Times for that article
[43:56] Speaker 2: the Christoph Art I didn't like. I mean, I'll be honest,
[43:58] Speaker 2: I was, but I didn't. I didn't like the Christoph
[44:02] Speaker 2: article because it was an opinion piece.
[44:04] Speaker 1: It wasn't written, but he spoke to fourteen sources.
[44:06] Speaker 2: Yeah, but they're also very kind of so I'm you
[44:09] Speaker 2: and I might disagree on this, but well, first of all,
[44:11] Speaker 2: Christoph can write anything he wants. The New York Times
[44:13] Speaker 2: can publish anything they want. Christoph, I think has as
[44:18] Speaker 2: a record of being, you know, very critical of the Israelis.
[44:21] Speaker 2: You might agree with it, you might not. I didn't
[44:23] Speaker 2: like the sourcing on it, but I don't care. It's
[44:25] Speaker 2: an opinion piece. Who gives a shit? And then of
[44:29] Speaker 2: course everyone went crazy after this, and the idea of
[44:33] Speaker 2: the Israelis suing the New York Times is preposterous. We
[44:36] Speaker 2: have a First Amendment rights here. It's an opinion piece.
[44:38] Speaker 2: It's not in the news section.
[44:40] Speaker 1: Even if it is a section, and it's well sourced,
[44:42] Speaker 1: fuck you.
[44:43] Speaker 2: But it's not that it doesn't have to be well sourced.
[44:46] Speaker 2: And I would argue that it's not well sourced because
[44:48] Speaker 2: I didn't like the sources that are used. But again,
[44:50] Speaker 2: the point on here is that it's not from their
[44:52] Speaker 2: national security team, which has a much different fact checking process.
[44:56] Speaker 2: It's an opinion piece. Nicholas Christoph can act and think
[44:59] Speaker 2: anything he wants, and they can write anything they want,
[45:01] Speaker 2: and that's fine. The smartest thing for the Israelis to
[45:04] Speaker 2: do it would have been like, that's an opinion piece,
[45:06] Speaker 2: thanks a lot, and then but but by suing the
[45:08] Speaker 2: New York Times, it's just it gets to be kind
[45:10] Speaker 2: of ridiculous. It's a lot of yeah, friends who are
[45:12] Speaker 2: incensed about this. I'm like, sure, get angry at Nicholas Christoff.
[45:15] Speaker 2: It's an opinion piece. The Washington Post has crazy opinion
[45:18] Speaker 2: pieces too, and that's I mean, that's the idea, Like
[45:21] Speaker 2: you you you can have debates on stuff.
[45:23] Speaker 1: Well, all right, so, like Christoph didn't go to Gaza,
[45:25] Speaker 1: right he was going, He went to the West Bank
[45:27] Speaker 1: because Western journalists aren't allowed in Gaza. Number one. Number two,
[45:31] Speaker 1: that video that leaked out from the prison in Gaza
[45:33] Speaker 1: was a guy getting gang raped. That those guys got
[45:36] Speaker 1: let off the hook, like the soldiers that gang rape
[45:39] Speaker 1: that guy.
[45:39] Speaker 2: And that's the point on that is so like, I
[45:42] Speaker 2: just don't want to hear the most moral army in
[45:44] Speaker 2: the world when things like that are happening in prison,
[45:47] Speaker 2: that the prison system in Israel has a huge problems,
[45:50] Speaker 2: no doubt. So the right response on this would have been, yeah,
[45:53] Speaker 2: there's you know that this is not gonna happen, but
[45:55] Speaker 2: it's it's the mature response is, yeah, the prison system
[45:58] Speaker 2: is really messed up. You know that in Israel it
[46:00] Speaker 2: needs reform. But some of these some of these allegations
[46:03] Speaker 2: about training dogs for raping people are kind of ridiculous.
[46:07] Speaker 2: And but you know, we're a look into it because
[46:08] Speaker 2: it's a big deal, because you know, we want to
[46:11] Speaker 2: have the right set of morals. You know, New York
[46:13] Speaker 2: Times don't agree with all of this, but we're on it. Now.
[46:17] Speaker 2: That's in another of course that's not gonna happen, but
[46:19] Speaker 2: that's the right attitude. Like I'm not going to defend
[46:21] Speaker 2: the Israelis or the Israeli prison system. I think training
[46:24] Speaker 2: rape dogs and that's been this trope that's been used
[46:27] Speaker 2: by the kind of the crazy left, you know, who
[46:29] Speaker 2: hates all counter terrorism activity all the time. You know
[46:32] Speaker 2: that there's been allegations of that forever. I don't even
[46:34] Speaker 2: think that's possible.
[46:36] Speaker 1: I don't know about the dog I mean, but they
[46:37] Speaker 1: didn't it wasn't just dogs raping people.
[46:39] Speaker 2: It was right, but that doesn't mean the horrible abuses
[46:42] Speaker 2: haven't occurred, and they have. And so that's the way
[46:44] Speaker 2: you tackle this. But you know, I mean suing the
[46:46] Speaker 2: New York Times just like at this point, like you
[46:49] Speaker 2: can't defend you can't defend that. That's just stupid and
[46:53] Speaker 2: they're just dumb. You sue the New York Times, what's
[46:55] Speaker 2: that gonna do. It's gonna stay in the news for years.
[46:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fucking it's so dumb, it's like stupid.
[47:01] Speaker 2: And if you're the Israeli Embassy and DC I've said
[47:04] Speaker 2: this Israeli embassy officials there, I said, you have a
[47:06] Speaker 2: massive problem here because the American left and right have
[47:08] Speaker 2: turned against you. And uh, and so my advice would
[47:12] Speaker 2: have been, don't sue the New York Times, Right, what
[47:15] Speaker 2: are you doing? This is I mean?
[47:17] Speaker 1: And frankly, and the New York Times has had like
[47:19] Speaker 1: has been called out and having like a pro Israel
[47:22] Speaker 1: bias as well.
[47:24] Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's think.
[47:25] Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's like, I don't know if you should
[47:27] Speaker 1: be suing the New York Times.
[47:29] Speaker 2: Look. Look, look in the United States, we face the
[47:31] Speaker 2: same things. There are allegations which were confirmed of torture
[47:34] Speaker 2: at a Gray. The American military did some pretty horrific stuff.
[47:37] Speaker 2: American CIA did some stuff that's kind of messed up
[47:40] Speaker 2: over the years. So you don't, you don't kind of
[47:42] Speaker 2: the reaction against it is not like this is not true. Well,
[47:45] Speaker 2: some of it's true. It's a lot of it's overblown.
[47:48] Speaker 2: You know, we didn't water board hundreds of people. But
[47:51] Speaker 2: you the right answer is, you know what this was
[47:54] Speaker 2: done in reaction to September. This is what I sell
[47:56] Speaker 2: college students all the time when they asked me. Yeah,
[47:58] Speaker 2: we did some things that probably we shouldn't have, but
[48:00] Speaker 2: I'll tell you the time was people were terrified, and
[48:03] Speaker 2: we had a lot. We had a big, big fucking
[48:05] Speaker 2: menu of options, and we chose them all. There was
[48:07] Speaker 2: you know, I I the analogy that you sometimes is
[48:10] Speaker 2: a remote control on the TV. Yeah, we chose every
[48:12] Speaker 2: freaking channel. We subscribed to everything. Yeah, you know, looking back, like,
[48:15] Speaker 2: shouldn't have done that.
[48:17] Speaker 1: Also, frankly, if you didn't get the direction from the
[48:19] Speaker 1: fucking Bush White House that uh e I ts were Okay,
[48:24] Speaker 1: you guys probably wouldn't be doing them.
[48:26] Speaker 2: I don't know, there's there was a lot I mean again,
[48:27] Speaker 2: but maybe I but no, we were blood thirsty, just
[48:32] Speaker 2: like these railings were after October seven.
[48:34] Speaker 1: Yeah, but do you think you guys the CIA would
[48:36] Speaker 1: have done that unrelatterly without the fucking president saying yeah,
[48:39] Speaker 1: it's okay.
[48:41] Speaker 2: No, I mean, you have to get the legal opinion
[48:43] Speaker 2: that it was okay.
[48:44] Speaker 1: Right right, And there was a ton of beef over
[48:46] Speaker 1: that too, like.
[48:47] Speaker 2: But but the bottom line is there were plenty of
[48:49] Speaker 2: people who still think it's okay. And im and I'm
[48:52] Speaker 2: really agnostic on this whole thing because I remember that.
[48:54] Speaker 2: I literally remember remembers of Congress from the Democratic Party,
[48:57] Speaker 2: from the left who were basically wanted us to kill everyone.
[49:00] Speaker 2: I mean, whether it's you know, from from really senior
[49:04] Speaker 2: members of Democrats who were just like, you know, why
[49:07] Speaker 2: aren't you just cutting fucking throats everywhere?
[49:08] Speaker 1: I remember after nine, directly after nine to eleven, normal
[49:11] Speaker 1: everybody was saying, let's fucking nuke wherever we need to,
[49:14] Speaker 1: you know, like just crazy.
[49:16] Speaker 2: Shit and so and so that. But but you have
[49:18] Speaker 2: to have the maturity later on to say, yeah, I'm
[49:21] Speaker 2: not I'm not defending everything we did. You have to say, yeah,
[49:23] Speaker 2: we probably shouldn't have done that stuff. This is the
[49:24] Speaker 2: reason why we did. I don't think we'll do it again.
[49:28] Speaker 1: Uh.
[49:29] Speaker 2: No CIA officer is ever going to waterboard anybody ever
[49:32] Speaker 2: again period. Not because they don't think it works, because
[49:35] Speaker 2: that's debatable. It's that I'm not fucking getting in trouble
[49:37] Speaker 2: with this. I don't care what you tell me. Remember
[49:39] Speaker 2: when Trump was running for president again, he said I'm
[49:41] Speaker 2: gonna bring back waterboarding, and everyone at the Agency's like,
[49:43] Speaker 2: good luck, many, I'm not going out for this ship.
[49:46] Speaker 2: I don't care what kind of DJ opinion you give, right,
[49:50] Speaker 2: because I'm not going down for this kind of crap.
[49:52] Speaker 1: What does the agency do now? We just hand them
[49:54] Speaker 1: off to like g I D or somebody and they
[49:56] Speaker 1: take care of it.
[49:57] Speaker 2: I mean no, I mean there's well, I mean, first
[50:00] Speaker 2: of all, the CEI is not in the in the
[50:02] Speaker 2: in the uh in the watch McCall. Well, it sort
[50:04] Speaker 2: of we're not in the business of holding the prisoners, right, Okay,
[50:08] Speaker 2: that did not look that did not turn out.
[50:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't great. No, it wasn't great for the
[50:13] Speaker 1: pr BRO. I'll be honest, Like even.
[50:15] Speaker 2: The other thing too. I mean I remember doing prison debriefs.
[50:18] Speaker 2: I'm like in Afghanistan early, I don't know what the
[50:20] Speaker 2: fuck I'm doing. I'm not training. I'm the case officer.
[50:23] Speaker 2: I'm not trained. I'm not a debriefer. I'm not you know,
[50:25] Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm doing on this thing. And
[50:28] Speaker 2: so yeah, so we're not in the business of that anymore.
[50:29] Speaker 2: And that's again, it's but you know, at some point,
[50:32] Speaker 2: I hope, for my Israeli friend's sake, that they will
[50:34] Speaker 2: come to the realization that there were massive excesses after
[50:38] Speaker 2: October seventh, and and my response to that would be,
[50:40] Speaker 2: I understand your pain and your grief and the desire
[50:42] Speaker 2: for revenge, but the government of Israel did some things
[50:45] Speaker 2: they probably shouldn't have done. And I think at some
[50:47] Speaker 2: point people will come to that realization. And you can
[50:51] Speaker 2: be as hardline as you.
[50:52] Speaker 1: Want people in Israel.
[50:53] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, I think a
[50:56] Speaker 2: lot of Americans were like, good Lord, but.
[50:58] Speaker 1: We were already there.
[51:00] Speaker 2: But the majority are going to come to their come
[51:02] Speaker 2: to their senses on this. But the trauma of October
[51:05] Speaker 2: seventh is it is you know, it was was so fresh,
[51:08] Speaker 2: and that's and we have to remember the trauma that
[51:09] Speaker 2: we had after September eleventh, and so that's kind of
[51:13] Speaker 2: where I where I stand on this, having been involved
[51:16] Speaker 2: in a lot of a lot of crazy stuff that
[51:18] Speaker 2: we did.
[51:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, so it was a couple dozen people they CIA
[51:22] Speaker 1: waterboarded or.
[51:23] Speaker 2: I can't talk about ciing waterboarding and any kind of authority.
[51:26] Speaker 2: And actually I didn't have anything to do with that.
[51:28] Speaker 2: But but but just you know, it's this is all
[51:30] Speaker 2: reported stuff. If you talk about testimony, I think it's
[51:33] Speaker 2: it's the numbers that have kind of come in public
[51:35] Speaker 2: were far less than and what is it would have
[51:38] Speaker 2: been alleged And the other part of it too. I
[51:41] Speaker 2: mean I got in trouble in all these and all
[51:43] Speaker 2: my podcasts. I did it with you guys. I did
[51:44] Speaker 2: it like on the Sean Ryan Show when I and
[51:46] Speaker 2: I and you know, and and Jack Carr and others.
[51:49] Speaker 2: When I've just what people would ask me, what do
[51:51] Speaker 2: you think about this? Do you have any regrets? I'm like, no,
[51:54] Speaker 2: I mean there was it was a different time.
[51:55] Speaker 1: I just don't mean why, Yeah, I don't know.
[51:58] Speaker 2: So, yeah, did we do some stuff. I was messed up, sure,
[52:00] Speaker 2: But it was actor October eleventh, you know, three thousand
[52:02] Speaker 2: Americans died there. You know, they asked us to take
[52:05] Speaker 2: it to the enemy, and so in retrospect, were some
[52:07] Speaker 2: of these things a little wacky? Yeah, probably, But you know,
[52:10] Speaker 2: do I have me regrets? I mean, I'd be a
[52:12] Speaker 2: fucking hypocritic asshole. I could do it easily. I could
[52:14] Speaker 2: go on MS now they love this, you know, Yeah,
[52:17] Speaker 2: but so bad for what we did. I just don't
[52:19] Speaker 2: I'd be lying. But again, you know, in retrospect, probably
[52:23] Speaker 2: the US military and the intelligence community did some things
[52:26] Speaker 2: we shouldn't have done, and the Israelis will eventually come
[52:29] Speaker 2: to that realization. It just takes a lot of time.
[52:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, we can go back and forth on this a
[52:36] Speaker 1: lot a lot of time. I feel like, I don't
[52:39] Speaker 1: think any war is moral really when it comes down
[52:42] Speaker 1: to it, it's it's horrible all the way. But what
[52:47] Speaker 1: we're seeing in Gaza is pretty fucking recommensible.
[52:50] Speaker 2: This villion deaths or and and and the notion of
[52:52] Speaker 2: even Lebanon in the Middle East and in Gaz in particular,
[52:57] Speaker 2: or far beyond anything that the US government would tolerate
[53:01] Speaker 2: under our conflict. Andy and I have written about this.
[53:04] Speaker 2: We got into fights with everybody about this.
[53:05] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[53:07] Speaker 2: Uh, you know, I supported him with when he was
[53:09] Speaker 2: doing stuff with Warren Rocks against some kind of really
[53:13] Speaker 2: kind of extreme more more extreme pros real folks and so, uh,
[53:16] Speaker 2: but it's just it's just a fact, like, yeah, you know,
[53:19] Speaker 2: we care about sifcasts much more than we.
[53:21] Speaker 1: Lost a ton of Marines in Fallujah that Andy was
[53:24] Speaker 1: commanding some of them, you know what I mean, like
[53:26] Speaker 1: take clear house to house to avoid just you know,
[53:30] Speaker 1: wholesale bombing.
[53:32] Speaker 2: Like you know, you know, I've been involved in some
[53:33] Speaker 2: sithcast incidents. It's really bad. Like you don't want to
[53:36] Speaker 2: be involved in that. And so the idea of like
[53:38] Speaker 2: we shouldn't give a shit about civilian casualties, the people
[53:41] Speaker 2: in the US military and intelligence community do, Yeah, you
[53:45] Speaker 2: just do. You don't want to be you don't want
[53:46] Speaker 2: to be hurting innocent people. That's not a good feeling
[53:49] Speaker 2: and that's not that's something that's going to stay with
[53:51] Speaker 2: you and that and again that's different than the conversation
[53:55] Speaker 2: we just had about some of the more extreme things
[53:58] Speaker 2: we did in the g WYT these And the reason
[54:00] Speaker 2: why I say I don't have a lot of regrets
[54:02] Speaker 2: on kind of the collective on what was done is
[54:04] Speaker 2: because these are really bad people. Uh, And so you know, now,
[54:08] Speaker 2: should we still do those kinds of things. Yeah, probably not,
[54:11] Speaker 2: but but that's way different than accidentally killing a you know,
[54:15] Speaker 2: a non combat.
[54:17] Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, no, for sure. All right, this is good.
[54:20] Speaker 1: I like you. We're supposed to we're supposed to go
[54:22] Speaker 1: twenty minutes. It's been fifty to fifty.
[54:25] Speaker 2: But again, but you know, it's a it's fun talk
[54:28] Speaker 2: to me on this, and I think I will say
[54:29] Speaker 2: this to you sometimes. You know, the other guests kind
[54:33] Speaker 2: of dominate a lot of stuff, but you've got a
[54:34] Speaker 2: lot of good a lot of good points, and you've
[54:36] Speaker 2: got to be on these things.
[54:38] Speaker 1: No, listen, we have so many Yeah I appreciate that,
[54:41] Speaker 1: but I mean, we have so many guys on you
[54:43] Speaker 1: guys are all experts. I don't really know. I'm run
[54:44] Speaker 1: in my mouth. I read the news like everybody else.
[54:46] Speaker 1: So I'd rather I'd rather have John Hackett like talk
[54:49] Speaker 1: about like actual shit, then me run my mouth like
[54:53] Speaker 1: maybe I can learn something. I'll always jump in when
[54:55] Speaker 1: I think the CIA goruls are going too far, I'll
[54:59] Speaker 1: always jump in.
[55:02] Speaker 2: Well, just remember, you got a lot of good points
[55:04] Speaker 2: to make. That was awesome, That was funy, Thanks bro.
[55:06] Speaker 1: All right, I want everyone to do me a favorite
[55:08] Speaker 1: checkout Mark's stuff the links during the description, and the
[55:12] Speaker 1: best place to support the show is Patreon dot com.
[55:14] Speaker 1: Slash a Teamhouse you get both Eyes on Geopolitics episodes
[55:18] Speaker 1: and Team House episodes ad free and early, and you
[55:22] Speaker 1: help support the show. Mark a pleasure as always.
[55:25] Speaker 2: Remember what I said before we need Teamhouse slash eyes
[55:28] Speaker 2: on coffee.
[55:30] Speaker 1: Man, it's got more. Yeah. Before we jumped on Mark
[55:32] Speaker 1: was we were brainstorming on like ideas.
[55:35] Speaker 2: Black Rifle coffee. I was like, it's pretty good.
[55:38] Speaker 1: I don't think another vet Bro coffee companies in the
[55:40] Speaker 1: mix needed in the market right now.
[55:43] Speaker 2: All right, well we'll do we'll do an audience poll.
[55:46] Speaker 1: Yeah. There was actually a good coffee company we had
[55:48] Speaker 1: as a sponsor called Redacted Coffee and they had some
[55:52] Speaker 1: really cool like uh cool. The coffee was good too,
[55:54] Speaker 1: but they had some really cool like covers and stuff
[55:56] Speaker 1: like that was like trippy like mk ultra stuff. Yeah,
[56:01] Speaker 1: it was a cool it's a cool company. Check it out.
[56:03] Speaker 1: So we're Dacted Coffee. All right, cool, all right, Mark,
[56:05] Speaker 1: thank you.
[56:11] Speaker 3: Hey guys, I want to take a moment to tell
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