# WWII Navy Veteran on Secret Radar Work and the Pacific War | Arthur Lewis

An episode of [The Team House](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1492797340), 17 May 2026, 1 h 48 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/clrtpod.com/m/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/72031428/art_lewis_ww2_spreaker.mp3

World War II Pacific veteran Arthur Lewis joins us to look back on a remarkable life, from growing up in Brooklyn and training on classified Navy radar systems to serving aboard LSM-238 during the Iwo Jima campaign. He shares firsthand memories of the landing force, Japanese prisoners, ship damage, mine sweeping after the war, and the humanity he witnessed in the middle of combat. Arthur also discusses his postwar life at UCLA, working on early airborne radar at Hughes Aircraft, becoming a lawyer, arguing before the U.S. Supreme Court, and reflecting on it all at 100 years old. Today's Sponsors: GhostBed ⬇️ https://www.ghostbed.com/house FOR 10% off! Mars Men⬇️ For a limited time, our listeners get 50% off FOR LIFE, Free Shipping, AND 3 Free Gifts at Mars Men at https://mengotomars.com/ Good Ranchers ⬇️ https://www.goodranchers.com/ Get $25 off your first order with the code "HOUSE" For ad free video and audio and access to live streams and Eyes On Geopolitics...JOIN OUR PATREON! https://www.patreon.com/c/TheTeamHouse To help support the show and for all bonus content including: -live shows and asking guest questions -ad free audio and video -early access to shows -Access to ALL bonus segments with our guests Subscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Support the show here:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse ___________________________________________________ PRE ORDER JACK'S NEW BOOK "THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN" ⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️ https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/803651/the-most-dangerous-man-by-jack-murphy/paperback/ Subscribe to the new EYES ON podcast here:⬇️ https://www.youtube.com/@EyesOnGeopoliticsPod/featured __________________________________ Jack Murphy's new book "We Defy: The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History" ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/We-Defy-Chapters-Special-History-ebook/dp/B0DCGC1N1N/ —————————————————————— Or make a one time donation at: ⬇️ https://ko-fi.com/theteamhouse Social Media: ⬇️ The Team House Instagram: https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_link The Team House Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePod Jack’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_link Jack’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21 Dave’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/dave_parke?s=21 Team House Discord: ⬇️ https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6 "Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio" 00:00 — Start 00:34 — Growing up in Brooklyn, adoption, and Brooklyn Tech before the war 04:40 — Why Arthur joined the Navy instead of being drafted into the Army 06:03 — Navy boot camp, electronics training, and learning secret radar systems 12:34 — Classified radar work and waiting for a Pacific assignment 16:22 — Assigned to LSM-238 and fixing radio gear before deployment 21:05 — Pearl Harbor, landing training, and preparing for the invasion force 28:54 — Marines, the armored bulldozer, and the tense trip toward Iwo Jima 32:54 — Arriving off Iwo Jima: battleships, air attacks, and the landing 37:00 — Taking Japanese prisoners and seeing humanity in the middle of war 40:55 — Getting wounded, climbing aboard a transport, and finally getting a real meal 47:36 — Ship damage, Pearl Harbor repairs, and mine sweeping after the war 55:41 — UCLA, Hughes Aircraft, and working on early airborne radar systems 01:09:04 — Becoming a lawyer and building a 50-year criminal defense career 01:15:43 — Arguing a search-and-seizure case before the U.S. Supreme Court 01:32:57 — The Whitey Bulger case, retiring from law, and reflections at 100 years old Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, Welcome to the Team House. I'm Jack Murphy
[0:03] Speaker 1: here with today's guest, Arthur Lewis. Author is a veteran
[0:07] Speaker 1: of World War Two, served in the Pacific, and he
[0:10] Speaker 1: is one hundred years young as of this speaking. We're
[0:13] Speaker 1: very excited to have him on the show. Author, Welcome
[0:16] Speaker 1: to the Team House.
[0:19] Speaker 2: Glad to be here.
[0:21] Speaker 1: So, Author, let's start at the beginning. Tell us where
[0:24] Speaker 1: you grew up in what life was like before the war?
[0:27] Speaker 2: Mad I grow up well. I was born in New
[0:32] Speaker 2: York City. My mother rancher room Bungalow and Brighton Beach,
[0:43] Speaker 2: and he never really remembered my mother. She passed away
[0:47] Speaker 2: when I was about three four years old. This was
[0:53] Speaker 2: Lewis who was on the bungalow with her husband. She
[1:00] Speaker 2: was a chef. She used to cook in the mountains,
[1:03] Speaker 2: the Catskills, and when my mother passed away, they didn't
[1:09] Speaker 2: know what to do with the kid, and Missus Llowis
[1:13] Speaker 2: raised me for a while until the lawyers got involved.
[1:18] Speaker 2: They want her to put him into a home and
[1:23] Speaker 2: often room, and Missus Lloyds decided that she'd actually keep
[1:28] Speaker 2: me there, but they had to take me away from her.
[1:32] Speaker 2: And she used to come visit me, and I had
[1:36] Speaker 2: to go to the gate with her. She was leaving
[1:38] Speaker 2: and asked to go when are we going home? She
[1:43] Speaker 2: didn't particularly care to stay that but an adoption followed him.
[1:48] Speaker 2: That's where I grew up with high school in Brooklyn,
[1:51] Speaker 2: New York. Went to Brooklyn Tech, New York, you know,
[1:57] Speaker 2: to men the school. I had a great education, and
[2:02] Speaker 2: at that time I was getting older and graduated high school.
[2:08] Speaker 2: Graduated in nineteen forty three. She I guess it was
[2:14] Speaker 2: by that time Missus Lewis had passed away just before
[2:18] Speaker 2: my thirteenth birthday, and family of Lewis slip. That was
[2:25] Speaker 2: the only name I knew. I didn't know my name
[2:28] Speaker 2: was anything other than al the Lewis and I grew
[2:32] Speaker 2: up Warwick Hams. Started in forty one, graduating forty three.
[2:39] Speaker 2: Brooklyn Tech was across the street from the Brooklyn Navy
[2:43] Speaker 2: Yard and it was basically an engineering school. We got
[2:51] Speaker 2: all all different kinds of engineering. With an federal institution.
[2:56] Speaker 2: It took up a full city blog and to get
[3:00] Speaker 2: into school, apparently they gave the city wide exam and
[3:06] Speaker 2: before I was triculated from the sixth grade of relief grade,
[3:13] Speaker 2: my mathneacher said, author, you're going to be going to
[3:18] Speaker 2: Brooklyn Tech on Monday, you know. I said, what's Brooklyn?
[3:23] Speaker 2: Pat didn't know what. And apparently I went out to
[3:27] Speaker 2: take the exam and there were a couple of kids
[3:30] Speaker 2: from high school. The example was city wide and apparently
[3:37] Speaker 2: I passed whatever the chess for about and that's when
[3:42] Speaker 2: I went to Brooklyn Tech. But I wondered when this
[3:48] Speaker 2: of the Aavy I would believed really was relative the Lewis,
[3:53] Speaker 2: and they were pretty good in me. I was raised
[3:57] Speaker 2: with four girls, various ages, and still she was the
[4:03] Speaker 2: southern and the relatives I was living with the old women's. Uh,
[4:13] Speaker 2: they were raising another daughter who was my father couldn't
[4:18] Speaker 2: take care of her. Mother passed away and they took
[4:21] Speaker 2: her and who didn't adopt them, but they raised them.
[4:27] Speaker 2: And he like, that's when I decided I wanted to
[4:30] Speaker 2: join the Navy. He said, Brighton Beach was near him,
[4:35] Speaker 2: was near an airport, and uh, the kids see all
[4:39] Speaker 2: they're playing going by. That's what we wanted to do.
[4:42] Speaker 2: We want her to fly, and I knew that if
[4:46] Speaker 2: I didn't list, I drafted eventually Army and we didn't
[4:53] Speaker 2: really want to do that we wanted to fly may
[4:57] Speaker 2: the air was with the principal thing that we saw
[5:01] Speaker 2: and believed in, and so I did tryal lists. I
[5:07] Speaker 2: needed to get the parallel approval, and the family didn't
[5:12] Speaker 2: want me to go. I told him that, well, I'm
[5:15] Speaker 2: going to be eighteen and three or four months. So
[5:20] Speaker 2: they relented and signed. Let Mesia going the neighbors And
[5:27] Speaker 2: if you.
[5:28] Speaker 1: Want me to Keith, yeah, yeah, Author, Before we get
[5:31] Speaker 1: into your time in the Navy, I do want to
[5:33] Speaker 1: pause for a second here just to ask about your
[5:36] Speaker 1: reflections of growing up in Brooklyn. We're here, our studio
[5:40] Speaker 1: is in Brooklyn. You know, I would love to hear
[5:42] Speaker 1: a little bit about what it was like growing up
[5:44] Speaker 1: here in the nineteen twenties into the or I'm sorry,
[5:47] Speaker 1: nineteen thirties into the nineteen forties.
[5:50] Speaker 2: Well, I've gone in nineteen twenty five, and I entered
[5:55] Speaker 2: the Navy in nineteen forty three, and from there I
[6:01] Speaker 2: served in the Navy. Was quite an education. Again, we
[6:06] Speaker 2: took some exams. Maybe wanted to know what to do
[6:09] Speaker 2: with you. I went for the physicals. I was a
[6:14] Speaker 2: healthy kid at the time, nothing wrong with me. But
[6:17] Speaker 2: when I was less than twenty twenty and consequently they
[6:22] Speaker 2: had me take a walk around the block and gave
[6:26] Speaker 2: me They all tould me to come back again eat
[6:28] Speaker 2: a lot of carrots Paris with me reportedly good for
[6:34] Speaker 2: the eyes. It didn't work, and I ended boot camp
[6:40] Speaker 2: in Chicago, Great Lakes Naval Training Station. Again exams and
[6:47] Speaker 2: we had a lot of mass science and I spook
[6:51] Speaker 2: built exams no problem. Apparently I accepted into a particular program.
[7:00] Speaker 2: Uh there was Accountain committee who were in charge of
[7:03] Speaker 2: the people of branch of the service, and he had
[7:07] Speaker 2: devised the tasks and you passed that test, they wanted
[7:10] Speaker 2: to you into this special program. You know what? And
[7:16] Speaker 2: h The first thing they did ask the boot camp
[7:20] Speaker 2: was to send me to the Naval Training Solationship to
[7:27] Speaker 2: write New College in Chicago. And we found out that
[7:33] Speaker 2: they gave us a lot of the training exampass and
[7:39] Speaker 2: electronics or radio. And we spent about a couple of
[7:46] Speaker 2: three months there and she did reasonably well, and I
[7:51] Speaker 2: moved on and then I transferred into along with a
[7:56] Speaker 2: couple of others to oklahom Day and him on those
[8:02] Speaker 2: days and we were there for six months. More electricity
[8:10] Speaker 2: dot lot of the radio. We learned how to build
[8:14] Speaker 2: a radio from the scratch, and of course we didn't
[8:18] Speaker 2: have the chips that we have today. We had resistant
[8:21] Speaker 2: capacities and uh vacuum the food. We still have a
[8:27] Speaker 2: few around, but they're rare. We built the radio, we
[8:34] Speaker 2: learned about hot hellity radio and moved from there to
[8:41] Speaker 2: Treasure Island, and that's when you find out what this
[8:45] Speaker 2: was all about. We were learning about radiar h that
[8:52] Speaker 2: that was an interesting thing because the Treasure Island we
[8:57] Speaker 2: were taught mm hmm every piece of mayby communication equipment
[9:04] Speaker 2: without responsibility. We learned how to read the stematic drawings,
[9:11] Speaker 2: how to repair them. We handled everything from We didn't
[9:16] Speaker 2: handle airborne that was bound in Corpus Christie, but we
[9:23] Speaker 2: had fire control radars. We had some on r We
[9:30] Speaker 2: even had the beginning of the DPS, which was AH.
[9:35] Speaker 2: It was a different method in those days. It was
[9:41] Speaker 2: enabled you on board ship to not depend on the
[9:47] Speaker 2: stars radio transmitters AH. It was long range aids and
[9:54] Speaker 2: navigation RANG. And I know he also was studied the
[10:00] Speaker 2: so ONAR. Just about every piece of equipment. The only
[10:05] Speaker 2: thing we never worked on was what we called f
[10:12] Speaker 2: family radio. Would rather even know at the time, I
[10:17] Speaker 2: remember when I finally graduated with an interesting period of time.
[10:23] Speaker 2: When we were in San Francisco, we received a prating
[10:32] Speaker 2: that was the same as a radio operator, and that
[10:37] Speaker 2: was that. The followed later on because we had been
[10:40] Speaker 2: dealing with radar and that was extremely secret in those days.
[10:48] Speaker 2: They didn't want to distinguish us from any of the
[10:53] Speaker 2: sailor or whatever. Didn't want anybody to know that we know,
[10:58] Speaker 2: when understood the radar uh the greater extent than most
[11:02] Speaker 2: people there. But the rating was the same as the
[11:05] Speaker 2: radio pumperator, which was no problem. I got up to
[11:12] Speaker 2: a second class right. Well, we weren't called the electronic
[11:19] Speaker 2: technicians of those faiths. But when you're out in San
[11:23] Speaker 2: Francisco in a bar, well, if you've a sailor in
[11:27] Speaker 2: San Francisco, no other place to go. I didn't drink,
[11:31] Speaker 2: I didn't smoke. It tis barely ninety I got barely
[11:36] Speaker 2: eighteen at that time, not quite nineteen, and I'm sitting
[11:42] Speaker 2: in the bar drinking Coca Cola that the sailor next
[11:47] Speaker 2: to me has got the same rating symbol, and he's
[11:52] Speaker 2: looking at me and he starts to give me more cold.
[11:58] Speaker 2: He didn't got out. I'm looking at him like he's
[12:04] Speaker 2: looking at me. I must say, some kind of phoney
[12:07] Speaker 2: had and those stripes and so a little pushingman Shelbyn
[12:13] Speaker 2: whatever we s got over that.
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[16:03] Speaker 1: I realized, you know, understand you were being trained as
[16:06] Speaker 1: a sort of radar technician, but at this time in
[16:10] Speaker 1: your training, you probably didn't know where you were being
[16:12] Speaker 1: deployed to.
[16:14] Speaker 2: We didn't know where we were going to go. We
[16:16] Speaker 2: were what we call the receiving station out in San Francisco,
[16:20] Speaker 2: and we had to give them a thirty day meeting
[16:25] Speaker 2: before we were going to be assigned to a ship.
[16:29] Speaker 2: At that time, the neighbor would beginning the middle the
[16:32] Speaker 2: very first radar repair ships. They so large at the transport,
[16:40] Speaker 2: and it carried spare parts for every piece of electronic
[16:45] Speaker 2: equipment the Navy use in Pacific. I don't know how
[16:50] Speaker 2: many they had, but I know they started with one,
[16:54] Speaker 2: and I believe there was one that was already out there.
[16:58] Speaker 2: And when I went back home East to the family
[17:06] Speaker 2: that had raised me at last from thirteen to eighteen,
[17:15] Speaker 2: I told them that I had planned on a list
[17:18] Speaker 2: at UCLA, a list of the fly for and to
[17:24] Speaker 2: go to school there, and that I was going to leave.
[17:27] Speaker 2: And my uncle says to me, what's the matter with
[17:31] Speaker 2: New York? We had some pretty good schools over here,
[17:35] Speaker 2: don't we. But it was a crowded living with the
[17:39] Speaker 2: five people in a small, low, small apartment, one bathroom
[17:47] Speaker 2: for all the girls, and girls meet a lot of
[17:50] Speaker 2: retirements first, and I used to go to bed at night.
[17:56] Speaker 2: I was the last one to go to bed because
[17:58] Speaker 2: we had a little cotton kitchen, and I was the
[18:01] Speaker 2: first one to get up because everybody had to get
[18:04] Speaker 2: up and go to work and I had to go
[18:06] Speaker 2: to school. And it was a great upbringing. A little crowded.
[18:13] Speaker 2: But when I was out here on the coach, I
[18:15] Speaker 2: saw California for the first time. The living was good.
[18:21] Speaker 2: I enjoyed a manage and I have them through the
[18:25] Speaker 2: school when I was at UCLA, and if you've ever
[18:30] Speaker 2: seen the campus today, it's just a crowded the mess.
[18:35] Speaker 2: But there were only four buildings. There was the Royce
[18:40] Speaker 2: Hall and the library, typical great college campuses, four buildings
[18:48] Speaker 2: and all of the administration building and old chemistry building
[18:53] Speaker 2: and I got a general feller in the order to
[18:56] Speaker 2: be the bitches for the sil lines that they they
[19:00] Speaker 2: were going to be building when the war was all
[19:02] Speaker 2: of it. That's what we're going on there. And she's
[19:09] Speaker 2: hoping about wonder to get a signed to I came
[19:13] Speaker 2: back late from that thirty day leave. I don't want
[19:18] Speaker 2: to tell my wife, but I met a girl on
[19:20] Speaker 2: the way and a day late. Now nothing happened. Nobody
[19:29] Speaker 2: gave me a a kid who was black Mark, and
[19:34] Speaker 2: so we wondered where we were going A signed and
[19:36] Speaker 2: then one day somebody says, and I arked, your name
[19:41] Speaker 2: is up on the shipping list. You've been a signed out.
[19:46] Speaker 3: Uh.
[19:46] Speaker 2: I didn't know what it was. They didn't know. I
[19:49] Speaker 2: had to go to the board and find out. That's
[19:52] Speaker 2: when I found out I was being assigned to and
[19:55] Speaker 2: l us M l us Am there's a the smallest
[20:00] Speaker 2: ocean going ship than Aby had and two thirty eight.
[20:07] Speaker 2: It was right behind me on that screen at court.
[20:11] Speaker 2: The dug up and got ah. It's like an LST.
[20:20] Speaker 2: Most people have seen them. They've been around Europe, landing
[20:25] Speaker 2: on on the beach France. It was typical, very similar,
[20:34] Speaker 2: although it wasn't enclosed on of a deck. It did
[20:39] Speaker 2: have bow doors that opened up rampos down and we
[20:45] Speaker 2: were able to get on and off. The The reason
[20:53] Speaker 2: I got assigned to that Capillas was it was the
[20:58] Speaker 2: land of a group of seven a that had been built.
[21:04] Speaker 2: I believe most of them were built on the West
[21:06] Speaker 2: coast and from there they were out. The captain of
[21:12] Speaker 2: this LSN two thirty eight was the last born. I
[21:15] Speaker 2: was still in San Francisco and the commanding all of
[21:20] Speaker 2: us that were the Maanapolis graduate. Now this was back
[21:24] Speaker 2: in the forty four forty five, forty four, we hadn't
[21:34] Speaker 2: reached forty five, Yeah, and he knew that the LSM
[21:43] Speaker 2: was entitled we Group eight ships, so we were titles
[21:49] Speaker 2: whood in Electronics cognission. And he knew that it was
[21:55] Speaker 2: an electronic nasion and he didn't want to leave until
[21:58] Speaker 2: he got one because there were none promongst all the
[22:02] Speaker 2: sudden ships, and he had insisted on run. I strongly
[22:08] Speaker 2: suspect that being a day late, maybe the first one
[22:12] Speaker 2: to get us out into another stuff. And that was
[22:16] Speaker 2: kind of an interesting when I came on board, just
[22:21] Speaker 2: loute the flag, Yeah, for the mission to come on board,
[22:24] Speaker 2: and you've got all your papers with you, and if
[22:29] Speaker 2: they don't, man who comes picks them up? And before
[22:33] Speaker 2: you know it, they've got Arthur Lewis here on board.
[22:39] Speaker 2: And the first thing that radio operator says, I'm glad
[22:43] Speaker 2: to hear we've done this to decent machineries that I
[22:47] Speaker 2: don't know what to do with it. And that was
[22:51] Speaker 2: an FM radio. It was a portable radio. It was
[22:58] Speaker 2: a Marine Corps piece of equipment, and I'm proud to
[23:03] Speaker 2: say I'd never seen it before, never saw any diagrams
[23:08] Speaker 2: or anything or that about it. And he says to me,
[23:11] Speaker 2: we can't get this thing worth So the first thing
[23:15] Speaker 2: I asked for was chromatic. And I see that we've
[23:19] Speaker 2: got some tubes in there. And one of the first
[23:23] Speaker 2: things you know when you begin to work on radio
[23:27] Speaker 2: communications equipment is check the tubes, feel them and if
[23:32] Speaker 2: they're not warmed, you've probably got a bad one because
[23:36] Speaker 2: they do gnery heat. They have an internal lectrose. And
[23:42] Speaker 2: I asked them where the spad arn'ts had no idea.
[23:46] Speaker 2: We didn't even know where the chematic was. It took
[23:48] Speaker 2: them a leg so to find bad but I knew
[23:51] Speaker 2: they had to have it if they had the equipment
[23:53] Speaker 2: on board, the neighborhoods pretty efficiently than of those days.
[23:59] Speaker 2: We finally found a box of band they were able
[24:03] Speaker 2: to started up. It was crystal control and that became
[24:09] Speaker 2: important later. Ah we took the ship to Honolulu. All
[24:16] Speaker 2: the ship took us and that wouldn't sustaining. But I've
[24:22] Speaker 2: never been to a little harder and I never seen Honolulu,
[24:28] Speaker 2: and the sight sing was interesting. U we saw the
[24:35] Speaker 2: bomb up chips that were laying there. They were still there,
[24:40] Speaker 2: and we One of the things I noticed that the
[24:46] Speaker 2: kid that a trip abroad or anywhere. It was sitting
[24:51] Speaker 2: in New York until I got there, I was that
[24:56] Speaker 2: it was pineapples. It was all all over the place
[24:59] Speaker 2: and who we loved it. They couldn't ship it back
[25:03] Speaker 2: to the states that they were growing it, and they
[25:09] Speaker 2: had a lot of it. You could get a case
[25:12] Speaker 2: of pineapple both of another thing, and so we spent
[25:18] Speaker 2: a lot of time drinking pineapples. It wouldn't bothered with me.
[25:24] Speaker 2: And we finally got to assigned to Wahoe, and we
[25:36] Speaker 2: knew that we're going to get some troops on board,
[25:40] Speaker 2: and so the ship got loaded before we went to
[25:43] Speaker 2: wago and from there we found out that we were
[25:48] Speaker 2: going to be doing some training, and the training was
[25:53] Speaker 2: to get this landing. It was two thirty eight. That's
[25:58] Speaker 2: behind me with an outdoor was open. The open well
[26:04] Speaker 2: deck was staked with all kinds of m emissions and
[26:09] Speaker 2: on top of the innisions that they have there, they
[26:14] Speaker 2: had planks and they rolled on board some communication heaps
[26:22] Speaker 2: a couple of three and up in the town door
[26:27] Speaker 2: they were placing an armored bulldozer and that became a
[26:36] Speaker 2: problem later. But while we were there, we had to
[26:41] Speaker 2: practice getting a ship on the beach and we'd be
[26:45] Speaker 2: out a couple of hundred yards or more and head
[26:49] Speaker 2: to the beach full speed. And while we were running
[26:53] Speaker 2: into the beach at full speed, we were dropping an
[26:57] Speaker 2: anchor of the fan tail and yeah, giving your fingers
[27:03] Speaker 2: called hoping that it's going to web hold somewhere because
[27:06] Speaker 2: you're beginning to underwind a cable that when you do
[27:10] Speaker 2: his the beach. Back then, they knew what the beach
[27:13] Speaker 2: over there would be like you've all seen them in
[27:17] Speaker 2: the previous movies of the European there as well. So
[27:23] Speaker 2: we get on that beach and we essentially stranded the
[27:29] Speaker 2: idea was that then unload whatever you had there who
[27:32] Speaker 2: lost the beach fier winding yourself off with the witch h.
[27:39] Speaker 2: We did that a couple of times, and while we
[27:42] Speaker 2: were there, the commander of the group, he had his
[27:48] Speaker 2: communications on he had them on a similar FM radio
[28:00] Speaker 2: and he had issued the order so all the other
[28:02] Speaker 2: ships that were involved with us to get up on
[28:05] Speaker 2: his frequency. We found out later that's the reason for
[28:10] Speaker 2: that was nobody on his ship knew had a change
[28:15] Speaker 2: the frequency and got that order. We were able to
[28:21] Speaker 2: find the crystals at work that were the same frequency,
[28:25] Speaker 2: and so we were the only other ship to be
[28:29] Speaker 2: able to get on his frequency. And we then had
[28:34] Speaker 2: all of the ships on one of the beaches of
[28:37] Speaker 2: Wahoo and UH I think maybe we wrong nowI but
[28:45] Speaker 2: whatever it was, I had to go from the ship
[28:48] Speaker 2: to ship to get the other ships on frequency, which
[28:53] Speaker 2: we were able to do. Also while we were in
[28:56] Speaker 2: San Francisco, h the board gun and then we were
[29:04] Speaker 2: able to put fishal caliber gun because we had no
[29:08] Speaker 2: weather defensive armament. And they worsually come back from the
[29:15] Speaker 2: fleet that on these landings on the beaches, the Japanese
[29:20] Speaker 2: were beginning to board UH. The ship when it was
[29:25] Speaker 2: unloading and they were being attacked, and of course it
[29:29] Speaker 2: maybe yeah, they did exports. Sailors don't carry a gun.
[29:36] Speaker 2: But I got that as my movie station because everybody
[29:44] Speaker 2: else in the CREO had a battle station. Mine with
[29:48] Speaker 2: the radio track and that took me out on that day.
[29:54] Speaker 2: And when we had the gun and stole that was
[29:57] Speaker 2: mine and we got to swing around because this sign
[30:04] Speaker 2: which would let you run, and I think the captain
[30:08] Speaker 2: one day noticed that as we swing that thing around him, uh,
[30:12] Speaker 2: we can go right past the upcoming now where he
[30:16] Speaker 2: either would be your fellowship was underway or on the beach.
[30:21] Speaker 2: And he quickly realized that he didn't want to have
[30:24] Speaker 2: any accidents. They put a stuff on it, but that
[30:28] Speaker 2: even if he wanted to who you couldn't shoot the captain. Uh.
[30:32] Speaker 2: Well that that was a consideration because if you remember
[30:36] Speaker 2: what was going on in Vietnam and UH officers who
[30:40] Speaker 2: got out of the line would not particularly go alive.
[30:44] Speaker 2: I don't want to get my captain any troland saying
[30:46] Speaker 2: that would even't like him. But we had a feeling
[30:51] Speaker 2: because while we were traveling, he would have the UH,
[31:01] Speaker 2: which was a black officer. It wasn't a black sailor.
[31:08] Speaker 2: He goods the duty in the kitchens and segregates in
[31:14] Speaker 2: the works. In fourth twenty eight days and uh, when
[31:20] Speaker 2: we're traveling across the Pacific, this was later on, he
[31:26] Speaker 2: would have a coke on a silver tray and he
[31:31] Speaker 2: would walk up through the cruise border all the way
[31:33] Speaker 2: on to the to the cone tower and they have
[31:39] Speaker 2: a coke, and of course we didn't have the coach
[31:44] Speaker 2: at that time. Later we got some hard boarders, had
[31:47] Speaker 2: a lot of cigarettes. The country was good to sail it.
[31:52] Speaker 2: We ate well, not as well as the submarine fools,
[31:56] Speaker 2: but we ate well as long as we had food.
[31:59] Speaker 2: Later we rang out of food too, but that story
[32:02] Speaker 2: for another day. We got the shiploaded. They put all
[32:09] Speaker 2: the all the communication fees. We got the bulloader on
[32:18] Speaker 2: board and we started fan being out. We knew not where,
[32:25] Speaker 2: and while we were on board, we had about forty
[32:31] Speaker 2: forget exactly how many rings we had on board with
[32:35] Speaker 2: a Marine Corps captain was in charge of the group.
[32:40] Speaker 3: And you're sure you want to continually, yes, yeah, please.
[32:47] Speaker 2: We were traveling with it, and they would started the
[32:50] Speaker 2: engine on the on the or and after a couple
[32:57] Speaker 2: of days when they went to start it. They keep
[33:01] Speaker 2: checking it every day and they couldn't get me started.
[33:06] Speaker 2: There was some mechanics amongst the marines. Almost any kid
[33:12] Speaker 2: in the country knew how to work on an anything,
[33:15] Speaker 2: and we had our own Motormack helped them get it started,
[33:22] Speaker 2: and they finally got it started. And a few days
[33:26] Speaker 2: later again they couldn't get it started. And the ship
[33:31] Speaker 2: is traveling about sixteen months. You could walk faster than that,
[33:37] Speaker 2: but that was the rate of which we went. I
[33:40] Speaker 2: tell people that ship would take us anywhere take thirty days.
[33:45] Speaker 2: His next door would take us thirty days, would took
[33:48] Speaker 2: this thirty mile, it would take thirty days. We progressed,
[33:54] Speaker 2: but it got to the point where Skipper was getting
[33:58] Speaker 2: a little nervous about that. So he gets hold of
[34:02] Speaker 2: the marine captain and he tells them, when we get
[34:06] Speaker 2: to Sipan, we're going to get permissioned from the harbor
[34:09] Speaker 2: Masson to pull up alongside the dock and we're taking
[34:12] Speaker 2: that thing off. Here. The marine captain looks at him,
[34:18] Speaker 2: he shot his hand on his side arm. You know,
[34:21] Speaker 2: we got it with a gun aboard the ship. And
[34:26] Speaker 2: when the ring captain, Harrison told him that he's going
[34:29] Speaker 2: to take that off the ship. He says, Captain one.
[34:33] Speaker 2: Captain Tollnover kept the Navy captain, well, he wasn't a
[34:37] Speaker 2: four striker, he was a three striker. But the ring
[34:41] Speaker 2: captain said, Captain, when we get to where we're going,
[34:45] Speaker 2: I'm going to be that bull those that bulldoz who
[34:49] Speaker 2: isn't getting off the ship until we get to where
[34:51] Speaker 2: we're going. And their nose to nose and eyes to eyes,
[34:56] Speaker 2: and my skipper finally turns around and walks away. And
[35:01] Speaker 2: when we got to Saipan, we finally got it started,
[35:07] Speaker 2: and the agreement was that it wouldn't turn it off
[35:12] Speaker 2: until we got to where we were going. And we
[35:14] Speaker 2: were looking at charts to see where the hell are
[35:17] Speaker 2: we going because they hadn't told us, and I guess
[35:22] Speaker 2: that's maybe became in any war. And we found an
[35:27] Speaker 2: island close to Japan and with Yoshima h I don't
[35:36] Speaker 2: know whether it's EWO team or not, but it ended
[35:39] Speaker 2: up to the ego team that we were having for
[35:43] Speaker 2: so we had we had it going during that entire trip,
[35:49] Speaker 2: pouring gasolina in one ending on the other. Uh we
[35:57] Speaker 2: got to the island that we saw now we knew
[36:03] Speaker 2: where to work. We saw the biggest fleet we had
[36:08] Speaker 2: ever seen. There were a couple of battleships out there.
[36:13] Speaker 2: They had been there for quite a while. The island
[36:17] Speaker 2: had been bombed, that had been in a gone from
[36:24] Speaker 2: the air from the big Battle of Wagons. And you
[36:29] Speaker 2: probably know those battleships, but those are eighteen twenty in schoons,
[36:38] Speaker 2: the shelves about the size of the of a little car,
[36:45] Speaker 2: and you would have thought that there was nothing that
[36:48] Speaker 2: could have survived it. We were. We didn't have the
[36:54] Speaker 2: kind of air attacks that later became the the routine,
[37:05] Speaker 2: but we did have some flying over, and every ship
[37:11] Speaker 2: in that arm mat was firing as those planes that
[37:15] Speaker 2: were attempting to come in while alone went around. And
[37:22] Speaker 2: the order finally came out that all huge ships without
[37:28] Speaker 2: radar control the fire control stopped shelling because those things
[37:33] Speaker 2: have to come down and apparently we're doing at them
[37:38] Speaker 2: and done or wrong. And then E meant the LCVPs,
[37:45] Speaker 2: the smaller personal carriers, they're full of soldiers, opened up.
[37:53] Speaker 2: They run up on the beach and they drop a
[37:56] Speaker 2: ramp and soldiers get off and they the first ones
[38:00] Speaker 2: that landed. And we were still out, we were loaded,
[38:04] Speaker 2: we had our machine, we had our h yeah on
[38:10] Speaker 2: the bulldozer still there, and after they got ashore, we
[38:18] Speaker 2: started to land on the beach. Now we had I
[38:23] Speaker 2: had some other photo that my kids got. We didn't
[38:27] Speaker 2: have our eyes so ones with us the most days.
[38:30] Speaker 2: I guess we couldn't find them. They want us too,
[38:34] Speaker 2: but maybe apparently I had a lot of pictures taken
[38:38] Speaker 2: and later if you want to see if I can't
[38:41] Speaker 2: find and we hit the beach, well, they dropped the ram,
[38:50] Speaker 2: we got that bulldozer off, began looking at all the
[38:53] Speaker 2: other supplies. I remember when we got everybody off. We
[38:59] Speaker 2: were on one hand, the crew and uh, there's a
[39:06] Speaker 2: lot of noise for going on and we were sitting
[39:10] Speaker 2: on some jelly yaseline and me and the guy sitting
[39:14] Speaker 2: asked me. He said, let's get out of here. So
[39:17] Speaker 2: we moved to the other end of the ship and
[39:20] Speaker 2: what I remember we sat on was just as bad
[39:22] Speaker 2: as the Jolly Yeah lane. But we finally pulled off
[39:27] Speaker 2: and then we had some other duties. Interestingly, as you know,
[39:34] Speaker 2: English humor was the largest number of marine cannibalities. The
[39:41] Speaker 2: army was there also. It was the Marines that boiled
[39:44] Speaker 2: the front of it, and that he let's see we
[39:54] Speaker 2: we got off. We were then carrying supplies back and forth,
[40:01] Speaker 2: and at one point, uh, we were told to go
[40:06] Speaker 2: shore and pick up some some prisoners that had in
[40:10] Speaker 2: camps and that battle it was taking no provements and
[40:17] Speaker 2: uh that the Marines apparently had four and we would
[40:21] Speaker 2: take some wounded back. So we went. Uh. You never
[40:28] Speaker 2: hesitated to follow in the order. I remember nobody questioned
[40:32] Speaker 2: whether it was dangerous or not. You don't have time
[40:35] Speaker 2: for that. You told them going somewhere to do something,
[40:38] Speaker 2: you do it. And we got these prisoners on board.
[40:43] Speaker 2: The ramp was down. They were brought on board by
[40:46] Speaker 2: another Marines. The prisoners were on stretchers. They were carried
[40:54] Speaker 2: on board. They would lay a flat on the on
[40:59] Speaker 2: the on the well egg. And the Marines didn't want
[41:02] Speaker 2: to get on board with them because they had been
[41:07] Speaker 2: battled with us for the last week or more, and
[41:10] Speaker 2: they refused to get on and the board came back.
[41:13] Speaker 2: You tell of the Marines they're going to get on board,
[41:16] Speaker 2: that we want those prisoners here, and so they did.
[41:20] Speaker 2: They got on board and they stood on the upper deck.
[41:26] Speaker 2: It's open and they stared down at the business. So
[41:33] Speaker 2: we pull off the beach and now we have to
[41:36] Speaker 2: find out where you got to go. For whatever reason,
[41:40] Speaker 2: we did not know where it was. And we were
[41:43] Speaker 2: steaming around in the harbor for quite a while and
[41:48] Speaker 2: the weather was getting threatened. H the prisoners were they
[41:55] Speaker 2: were pretty well cleaned up. That was a surprised Apparently
[41:58] Speaker 2: as the medics gotten to them cleaned them up. Every
[42:03] Speaker 2: one of the prisoners had either in honor of lay
[42:06] Speaker 2: off and they were just laying there quietly. Apparently they
[42:12] Speaker 2: had been given some cigarettes, but they each had one
[42:17] Speaker 2: or two, didn't know how many. We didn't bother the camp,
[42:21] Speaker 2: and we saw that like one of them started, as
[42:26] Speaker 2: I recall, to trying to get unlike the cigarette that
[42:31] Speaker 2: he had was obviously couldn't do it. He only had
[42:34] Speaker 2: one arm and h any event, you could see that
[42:39] Speaker 2: he wanted and as I recall, one of our guys
[42:44] Speaker 2: went down there and started up like the cigarette for him.
[42:50] Speaker 2: And once we did that, the others began to pull
[42:55] Speaker 2: out a cigarette all stuff, and then another sailing came down,
[43:02] Speaker 2: and then the marine came down and pretty soon they
[43:08] Speaker 2: were lighting a cigarette for them. Uh to me that
[43:13] Speaker 2: with really a show of empathy and humanity. They you know,
[43:23] Speaker 2: they were just soldiers doing their job cancer help themselves,
[43:28] Speaker 2: afraid they were going to get tortured or whatever from
[43:31] Speaker 2: what they have heard, just like a our people have
[43:34] Speaker 2: heard things like that. And then our cook comes out
[43:41] Speaker 2: and he's got some soup, and we started to succeed them.
[43:47] Speaker 2: And the Marines were there and also went a hand
[43:53] Speaker 2: and feeding them, and meanwhile we're still trying to figure
[43:57] Speaker 2: out where the hell we're going, and finally we did that,
[44:04] Speaker 2: we got them.
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[45:47] Speaker 2: And while we're going to be I tell a story
[45:50] Speaker 2: that I love to drive because while we're unloading all
[45:56] Speaker 2: that stuff, I'm big radio. I never seen a small one.
[46:03] Speaker 2: And where I might have short that they are, they're big,
[46:07] Speaker 2: they're tall. And so then you get that fucking weapons
[46:11] Speaker 2: carry out of here. I look around, cy closest to it.
[46:17] Speaker 2: I get up, I jump behind the wheel because you know,
[46:20] Speaker 2: though I had never really owned a car, probably even
[46:23] Speaker 2: didn't drive a car. Uh, when you're at that age
[46:29] Speaker 2: in the city like New York, I look, Uh, we
[46:33] Speaker 2: go ahead to drive it. So I get my spirt
[46:35] Speaker 2: on the clutch and I pulled me in as a
[46:38] Speaker 2: big clutch down, I'm shifting my gear any year, I
[46:42] Speaker 2: did no care. I get I get that truck to move.
[46:49] Speaker 2: And if my wife hears me tell that story, he'll
[46:52] Speaker 2: say he's still drive us like that. Oh but I
[46:59] Speaker 2: didn't get any I did have I'm embarrassed and talk
[47:04] Speaker 2: about it. I had a cut and I feel it
[47:08] Speaker 2: was the piece of ratinal somewhere. But uh, anyway, he
[47:12] Speaker 2: got infected and it's swelling and it's getting painful. Medical Uh,
[47:22] Speaker 2: he heads that to the captain. We've got Indian over.
[47:27] Speaker 2: One of the doctors on one of the ships were
[47:29] Speaker 2: coming to I can't do anything else for him. It's
[47:32] Speaker 2: getting pain to him. It's infected. And so Captain as
[47:38] Speaker 2: he would for a crew member, Uh, buy that is
[47:42] Speaker 2: a ship nearby, big transport that that's doctors on it,
[47:47] Speaker 2: and so we pull up the wrong side. Now by
[47:51] Speaker 2: this time we had run out of food. We were
[47:54] Speaker 2: eating cave rations. Nobody's got time to take care of
[47:58] Speaker 2: other stuff like that. When you guys about on the
[48:00] Speaker 2: island and the people on more of those other ships,
[48:08] Speaker 2: transports or whatever, they were alongside the railway watching the show.
[48:13] Speaker 2: They're pretty station by this time. Because we had our
[48:16] Speaker 2: own air force. It's always one of the reasons they
[48:19] Speaker 2: wanted EU Regima because they had been boding Japan. The
[48:23] Speaker 2: B twenty nine is were stationed in Sidepan and on
[48:28] Speaker 2: the way back some of them have suffered some kind
[48:31] Speaker 2: of damage to the airplane and we were losing some
[48:35] Speaker 2: of them in the water before they get back to
[48:38] Speaker 2: side of Pan, and we were picking up any of
[48:42] Speaker 2: this lotes that included on a the tips that were there.
[48:45] Speaker 2: There were others who were probably more depth for doing that,
[48:51] Speaker 2: and so we didn't get alongside the ship. You better
[48:55] Speaker 2: climb up the ropes. You're seeing them cover mets and
[49:00] Speaker 2: the kids who are all watching, and they see the
[49:03] Speaker 2: sailor come in. They's got his hand bandage and they
[49:08] Speaker 2: find out that we're looking for a doctor for me
[49:11] Speaker 2: because I had one of the guys with me and
[49:14] Speaker 2: they take me to the doctor and you get lost
[49:18] Speaker 2: in the ship, don't know where, Well, they'll have to
[49:20] Speaker 2: get it out. That's why we always had somebody with us.
[49:23] Speaker 2: And the doctor takes a look that takes a cigarette.
[49:29] Speaker 2: Shut it in my mouth. I didn't smoke, getting asked me,
[49:33] Speaker 2: and I guess his scalp old cuss it over and
[49:38] Speaker 2: a lot of that stuff comes out. He wraps in
[49:40] Speaker 2: the band because my arm in the splaying and we're
[49:44] Speaker 2: done and they're going to take me back. And all
[49:47] Speaker 2: the way back, one of the ship's crew says, would
[49:52] Speaker 2: you like to eat wheear here? Because before we had
[49:55] Speaker 2: the last that we had pulled up alongside the son
[49:58] Speaker 2: of ourrow crew had the other one of them. Hey,
[50:00] Speaker 2: guy's got any bread out there? Yeah? And if I
[50:04] Speaker 2: want them bread meat, bread, their cook He comes out
[50:11] Speaker 2: to the railing is you guys ask him for bread? Yeah,
[50:16] Speaker 2: well if they get they got whatever they wanted. It
[50:19] Speaker 2: was transferred to them. And on the way he's selling
[50:23] Speaker 2: maybe like to eat one. I said, yeah. So they
[50:28] Speaker 2: take me down to the shell line and something longer line,
[50:34] Speaker 2: so the sugar, and they moved me up to the
[50:38] Speaker 2: head of the line. Now or narrowly, you bump to
[50:42] Speaker 2: the foot of the chall line. You're going to get
[50:44] Speaker 2: their ass, kid, but everybody able to respectful the We
[50:49] Speaker 2: get up to the head of the line and uh,
[50:53] Speaker 2: why do you think they're serving steak? And so moving
[51:00] Speaker 2: along with the tray. Somebody's holding the trade and the
[51:03] Speaker 2: guy big stay there, there's one another one. Oh yeah,
[51:11] Speaker 2: so I get that. And then down the end of
[51:14] Speaker 2: the line is I screamed. These guys were having a
[51:19] Speaker 2: party and we have a nice you know. He goes
[51:24] Speaker 2: back down. Now I've got to climb back down the ned.
[51:30] Speaker 2: My arm is in a swaying like I've been in
[51:32] Speaker 2: a war or something. Nobody thinks I have because we
[51:36] Speaker 2: didn't have to go in on him. We unloaded and
[51:40] Speaker 2: we're ready to go back, and I can't let everybody
[51:45] Speaker 2: from take off the and I climb back down, and
[51:53] Speaker 2: we don't make a big thing out of us. But
[51:56] Speaker 2: I've never made a claim on having them wounded in
[52:00] Speaker 2: the war, never got a purple heart, never asked for
[52:06] Speaker 2: And uh, it's a story I don't like to tell
[52:09] Speaker 2: so much. Somebody else might hear about it, making it
[52:13] Speaker 2: up for something. But we were we were good. Uh finally, Yeah,
[52:22] Speaker 2: I'm sure there's a few other stories would tell about it.
[52:26] Speaker 2: But basically, we got damaged and we had to come
[52:31] Speaker 2: back for repairs to par Harbor. Oh. We felt so
[52:35] Speaker 2: there that we had to go to Pearl Harbor. Uh.
[52:39] Speaker 2: But when we got to Pearl Harboro, we found out
[52:41] Speaker 2: they didn't have any room for a ship on hours
[52:45] Speaker 2: with all.
[52:45] Speaker 3: The other damage in a how did how did your
[52:50] Speaker 3: ship get damaged?
[52:53] Speaker 2: Well by being banged alongside uh that beach and the
[53:00] Speaker 2: other picture that I have you will see seven LSMs
[53:06] Speaker 2: as many as that you had one on one picture,
[53:10] Speaker 2: and that's where the damage comes. They're swinging against and
[53:14] Speaker 2: when we go out to load up, we're banging against
[53:19] Speaker 2: the other ships. And that was most of the damage.
[53:24] Speaker 2: We never took a direct yet somebody somewhere else did
[53:31] Speaker 2: and that's when this and some of the pictures that
[53:35] Speaker 2: we show is the LS and two thirty eight all
[53:39] Speaker 2: by itself, and those were after the first couple of
[53:43] Speaker 2: days of onloading supplies and equipment where we had to
[53:49] Speaker 2: go around to the website. Abogima is an island that's
[53:55] Speaker 2: four miles long two miles wide as the widest point,
[54:01] Speaker 2: that's where the airfield was put and Mansurubachi is that
[54:06] Speaker 2: on the southern end, lies at an angle, but it's
[54:11] Speaker 2: a small area four miles at one end and it's
[54:16] Speaker 2: only four miles two miles wide the lightest and Mansurbacci
[54:22] Speaker 2: at the other end. See what they had done Montsurubashi
[54:27] Speaker 2: was they had their borders inside the caves on the island.
[54:33] Speaker 2: They handed beach gridded A one A to be through,
[54:39] Speaker 2: and they had each mortar on any spot that they
[54:45] Speaker 2: wanted it. They would set at the angle an elevation
[54:49] Speaker 2: that's required to hit any spot that they wanted to
[54:54] Speaker 2: and they run the mountainizs to the end of the
[54:56] Speaker 2: cave of the mountain, pull a lanyard pullet back in.
[55:01] Speaker 2: So they were pretty well protected and we didn't have
[55:06] Speaker 2: that problem. As a matter of fact, they let the
[55:10] Speaker 2: first batch of the rings who arrived on the LCVPs
[55:16] Speaker 2: get out and the shore before they began to bombard
[55:20] Speaker 2: and everything else. Nothing's there, So I don't know the
[55:23] Speaker 2: damage on any of the other ships, but I'm sure
[55:26] Speaker 2: there was. But that's essentially what how it was. We
[55:30] Speaker 2: got to Pearl Harbor, we had to go on to
[55:32] Speaker 2: the States, and when we got through the States, there
[55:36] Speaker 2: was a little river up in Nampa Valley and we
[55:43] Speaker 2: were it was almost like going through the Balls. If
[55:47] Speaker 2: you've ever been through the balls, you see people on
[55:49] Speaker 2: both sides and no way by to do it. That's
[55:52] Speaker 2: when I got to recruit the ship because I learned
[55:55] Speaker 2: the things that we trans about it. And I tell
[55:58] Speaker 2: the story. I attended the days when I could clit
[56:02] Speaker 2: on the side for the genotime, watched the waves flu
[56:08] Speaker 2: buy and that's what we did. We went up the
[56:11] Speaker 2: map the lake UH. People on both sides were waving
[56:15] Speaker 2: and it was a small ship road where we left
[56:19] Speaker 2: the ship and I never saw it again. But when
[56:24] Speaker 2: I got through UH, I got it for the day.
[56:29] Speaker 2: At that time. That's when I went home and told
[56:32] Speaker 2: Bently that I was going and we did h and
[56:40] Speaker 2: I'm thinking, who Uh. That's when I came back and
[56:49] Speaker 2: when I got back, it's the receiving station. I remember,
[56:55] Speaker 2: I had enough points for discharge and that was the points.
[57:02] Speaker 2: I go to the CEO and I've got enough points
[57:05] Speaker 2: for bridge times takes a look. That's a lot of papers.
[57:10] Speaker 2: You know, you're right, when you get to Japan, you
[57:13] Speaker 2: tell the command. When I got to Japan, I did that,
[57:21] Speaker 2: and six months later we've got Philip Hayes. We're sweeping
[57:25] Speaker 2: mindes on mine sweeper. That's where I got the picture
[57:31] Speaker 2: of myself with the monkey. Everybody likes that we had
[57:35] Speaker 2: a monkey on board. Well, we had a monkey on Gordon,
[57:39] Speaker 2: but not until we had a lead. They lost a
[57:41] Speaker 2: monkey on the island.
[57:43] Speaker 3: But author this was I mean, you go to Japan,
[57:46] Speaker 3: presumably the war is over at this point, right, Uh, yeah, the.
[57:51] Speaker 2: Wall was over. I'm not sure though that the peace
[57:57] Speaker 2: the peace treaty that happened was the Febru worry that
[58:03] Speaker 2: been in the middle of the Yeah, that would have
[58:06] Speaker 2: been in the middle of the year. So the uh,
[58:12] Speaker 2: the other eyelight making right after that case, he's blowing.
[58:19] Speaker 2: That's what happened when you hit one hundred things.
[58:23] Speaker 3: Oh, you're you're talking about Okinawa.
[58:27] Speaker 2: Ok. Yeah, that's where the the air attacks. That's a
[58:36] Speaker 2: lot of damage and that that's why I said we
[58:39] Speaker 2: were getting some of that, but not like o'conado. It's
[58:44] Speaker 2: even across the Japan and it's a very large, large place,
[58:51] Speaker 2: much bigger than.
[58:54] Speaker 1: So that the Navy had you do basically an additional tour.
[58:58] Speaker 1: This time you were mind sweeping, trying to clean up
[59:00] Speaker 1: after the war. I think that one that it sounds
[59:05] Speaker 1: like the Navy had you do an additional tour anyway
[59:08] Speaker 1: in Japan and the Philippines, basically cleaning up after the war.
[59:13] Speaker 2: Well, yeah, we had already occupied most of the Philippines. Uh,
[59:21] Speaker 2: we were in sleup beady. We were mostly mine mine sleeping.
[59:28] Speaker 2: We didn't mind sleeping also up in uh in Japan,
[59:36] Speaker 2: and I recall that we were sleeping minus there when
[59:39] Speaker 2: we threw up a couple of ships and the Navy
[59:43] Speaker 2: finally said, well, look the Japanese are the ones that
[59:45] Speaker 2: put in there. Uh. They made the Japanese go ahead
[59:50] Speaker 2: and sweep their own mind as then we went down
[59:53] Speaker 2: to the Philippines and we were sleeping mines over there.
[59:58] Speaker 2: It was a different kind of shipped mine sweepers. Yeah, yeah,
[1:00:04] Speaker 2: having that kind of a problem. Yeah, yeah, that isn't
[1:00:11] Speaker 2: a kind of a problem now that I was and
[1:00:15] Speaker 2: I ran trying to lock them. It's a different mind
[1:00:21] Speaker 2: sweeper that they have these days, different minds of things
[1:00:24] Speaker 2: as well. But it's still a dangerous town.
[1:00:29] Speaker 3: And how did how did that tour go for you?
[1:00:33] Speaker 2: Well, when I got back and went to U C.
[1:00:36] Speaker 2: L A. I started in engineering. By that time. Uh hum.
[1:00:44] Speaker 2: By that time I was working at you Aircraft because
[1:00:52] Speaker 2: of the background and electronics. I uh, they needed people
[1:00:59] Speaker 2: to help build some of the airborne radar use aircrafts
[1:01:05] Speaker 2: at that time was run by Siren O. Dean walwrithe
[1:01:12] Speaker 2: there was a name you recognized as being part of
[1:01:17] Speaker 2: the not to either of your way, but Thompson Raymond
[1:01:22] Speaker 2: Walburgh st On w. They were running the huge aircraft
[1:01:29] Speaker 2: research and development labs they do at the first airborne
[1:01:34] Speaker 2: rock the ships when I met and I was used
[1:01:41] Speaker 2: for about ten years while I was going to school,
[1:01:44] Speaker 2: I switched from engineering to law and I didn't bother
[1:01:49] Speaker 2: tell me them. It wouldn't have made any difference if
[1:01:52] Speaker 2: I had. But they were pretty good about when any
[1:01:54] Speaker 2: kids were at school. And I got married and I
[1:02:02] Speaker 2: have three boys who were also practicing. I guess they
[1:02:08] Speaker 2: all decided to follow Wall because they think are dead
[1:02:12] Speaker 2: to make a living at her hall for the So
[1:02:15] Speaker 2: I asked the boys had a god in the law.
[1:02:20] Speaker 2: That's uh married my oldest boy. They went to college.
[1:02:26] Speaker 2: You had sleeve. Uh. Ronald played football. Uh, he was
[1:02:32] Speaker 2: the football player in high school and would recall Uh
[1:02:37] Speaker 2: he made the team that he was the freshman, and
[1:02:42] Speaker 2: so they put him on the kickoff return team. And
[1:02:46] Speaker 2: I remember going to the first game that he still
[1:02:50] Speaker 2: rough for and they had him take the first mall
[1:02:55] Speaker 2: like that kicked over to them. He tak about five
[1:02:58] Speaker 2: yards behind the goal line, ran it all the way
[1:03:01] Speaker 2: to the other go alive, and uh he considered that
[1:03:05] Speaker 2: way he was recruited by Yes. Well see he came
[1:03:11] Speaker 2: in later used to la Uh coach Cush from Arizona State.
[1:03:18] Speaker 2: He came onto the house and he wanted to know,
[1:03:22] Speaker 2: uh what he could do to convince them to come
[1:03:25] Speaker 2: to Arizona State. My uh, I remember him seeing that
[1:03:35] Speaker 2: Ronald wanted the U. S us was number one and
[1:03:38] Speaker 2: all these kids that were in there, good at anything,
[1:03:41] Speaker 2: want to go to the number one school. And h
[1:03:46] Speaker 2: he finally turns to his mother and uh, he says,
[1:03:52] Speaker 2: what does he wanted be? And momber quickly says, he
[1:03:56] Speaker 2: wants to be a doctor. Yeah, remind me a story
[1:04:00] Speaker 2: about Selwynski. Remember when Sunsky's mother was interviewing the preceless
[1:04:08] Speaker 2: to her, mister Solinsky, you must be very proud of
[1:04:13] Speaker 2: your son now the head of the government, and she says, yes,
[1:04:16] Speaker 2: but my other son's in tempwship as a traditional Jewish mother.
[1:04:23] Speaker 2: So Ronald, he didn't care to be a doctor as
[1:04:29] Speaker 2: I Silver cared to be a football player at USC,
[1:04:34] Speaker 2: but interestingly USC came after him, and uh he done
[1:04:39] Speaker 2: all the team a scholarship, and uh, his career ended
[1:04:44] Speaker 2: when O Jay Sinson was transferred into the same school
[1:04:48] Speaker 2: and Ronald with venues for practice. And I saw the
[1:04:52] Speaker 2: beating that he was taken by being the opposing team's
[1:04:57] Speaker 2: running back, and we finally took them off. Fifty two
[1:05:00] Speaker 2: years kept them in school, but I took them off
[1:05:04] Speaker 2: the team. I didn't want to get meet up anymore.
[1:05:07] Speaker 2: And he finally saw that that's all he was going
[1:05:09] Speaker 2: to be doing with since then. But on the wind Springs, okay,
[1:05:16] Speaker 2: it was only one step ahead of them, so he
[1:05:20] Speaker 2: was pretty good. The other boys that followed, they were
[1:05:22] Speaker 2: pretty good high school as well, and they all said
[1:05:26] Speaker 2: that Fronto didn't make it, They're not going to make it.
[1:05:28] Speaker 2: So they never tried to get any further than that.
[1:05:31] Speaker 2: But the boys that are all reading okay. And of
[1:05:35] Speaker 2: course you know my granddaughter who's there, she's the one
[1:05:38] Speaker 2: responsible for this at all. She go around telling everybody
[1:05:42] Speaker 2: about how great her grandfather is. And she's always a
[1:05:46] Speaker 2: lot of tell you where else with you? You know,
[1:05:53] Speaker 2: I've been practicing the law for about fifty years.
[1:05:58] Speaker 3: What area of law A big bar? What area of wall?
[1:06:02] Speaker 3: What kind of suits? Did you take our cases?
[1:06:05] Speaker 2: Well, when I was used, as I said, I was
[1:06:10] Speaker 2: there for ten years, I began to well. Once I
[1:06:18] Speaker 2: passed the bar and they knew how it was going
[1:06:20] Speaker 2: to law school, they transferred me over to transfer to
[1:06:27] Speaker 2: what they call a spare parts department where they used
[1:06:31] Speaker 2: to negotiate the right field Ohio for the Air Force
[1:06:36] Speaker 2: the spare parts because we now knew all about their
[1:06:40] Speaker 2: airborne radar. We were making the radar system for the
[1:06:46] Speaker 2: F eighty six night Fighter. I don't North American Airport,
[1:06:52] Speaker 2: and we knew all of the or all of the
[1:06:58] Speaker 2: parts that make up the system, and we're intimate with
[1:07:04] Speaker 2: all of the components I got transferred or worth well.
[1:07:11] Speaker 2: More interesting than that. I remember meeting Syringo at North
[1:07:20] Speaker 2: America one time because we had put together the system
[1:07:26] Speaker 2: that was working very well. We'd send it over to
[1:07:31] Speaker 2: North American and then North Americans would have stolen into
[1:07:35] Speaker 2: their plane and they have to fly and they have
[1:07:39] Speaker 2: to work successfully on a couple of flights before the
[1:07:45] Speaker 2: Air Force were paying for them. And we found out
[1:07:52] Speaker 2: that the Air Force was complaining that they were spending
[1:07:56] Speaker 2: a lot of time trying to get those who radar
[1:08:00] Speaker 2: system working. We couldn't understand it because we tested them
[1:08:04] Speaker 2: carefully before we sent them out. So they decided that
[1:08:08] Speaker 2: that would do this. They would take a North American
[1:08:12] Speaker 2: plane that had been bought that all were you wiring
[1:08:16] Speaker 2: was correct, and they had put the radar system in
[1:08:20] Speaker 2: and it had flown. So they were going to make
[1:08:23] Speaker 2: a radar system that had all expectation. They took the
[1:08:28] Speaker 2: cabling from that airplane brought it to the factory to
[1:08:34] Speaker 2: see that the wiring was adequate. We found out it was,
[1:08:39] Speaker 2: and we then built the system and sent it over
[1:08:44] Speaker 2: to put in one of their newly manufactured planes, and
[1:08:49] Speaker 2: I was assigned to follow event system all the way
[1:08:53] Speaker 2: to North American, ride the truck in which it was
[1:08:58] Speaker 2: taken over there, and reporting anything any mishapped or whatever
[1:09:05] Speaker 2: we did that put it into that airplane flew one
[1:09:09] Speaker 2: time and sold. But I noticed the way the equipment
[1:09:14] Speaker 2: had been handled. They come a little by boxes. There's
[1:09:17] Speaker 2: traditional little boxer and I see one get dropped, get
[1:09:23] Speaker 2: picked up and installed things that pin as I wrote
[1:09:30] Speaker 2: a report, and they were so surprised that so many
[1:09:34] Speaker 2: of the little thing that happened. And another thing that
[1:09:38] Speaker 2: happened is that when the plane flew, I found out
[1:09:42] Speaker 2: that it wasn't the radar that was necessarily the problem
[1:09:46] Speaker 2: with it, That there were other parts of the plane,
[1:09:50] Speaker 2: of the radio equipment and whatever, and so they were
[1:09:55] Speaker 2: blaming it on the radar because that was the most
[1:09:58] Speaker 2: publex piece of equipment there. They can't be there for
[1:10:01] Speaker 2: about oh probably a year, as one of the ten
[1:10:06] Speaker 2: that I spent there. And during that time, we had
[1:10:11] Speaker 2: a lamb there with field engineers, and one day and
[1:10:14] Speaker 2: I'm walking past, I see that side Raymon. Doctor Raymon
[1:10:21] Speaker 2: was with them and they were all huddled around the
[1:10:24] Speaker 2: screen on the rainbow system, and there's some kind of
[1:10:28] Speaker 2: a blip that they see and as I walked by,
[1:10:32] Speaker 2: I see what it is. And they're still there the
[1:10:35] Speaker 2: next day and they're still looking at it. And I
[1:10:39] Speaker 2: have seen that at the banctory and so as I
[1:10:42] Speaker 2: walked by that, he says, wanted to try our thirty
[1:10:46] Speaker 2: three or resistor and there's thirty overhod whatever, and I
[1:10:50] Speaker 2: walked away. They turned around look at me like I'm crazy.
[1:10:53] Speaker 2: How do you walk by a complex trade system and
[1:10:56] Speaker 2: points to one particular resistor a particular circuit, And well,
[1:11:03] Speaker 2: finally somebody decided to take a look at it, and
[1:11:06] Speaker 2: they did and the system were and now they call
[1:11:13] Speaker 2: this kid over and how the hell did you know that? Well,
[1:11:18] Speaker 2: I says, you know, we've been watching all of these
[1:11:21] Speaker 2: block we've seen this. There took us a couple of
[1:11:24] Speaker 2: three days or more to find out what the hell
[1:11:26] Speaker 2: it was. Once we found that out, we found that
[1:11:30] Speaker 2: that particular resistive in that particular circuit needed to be
[1:11:34] Speaker 2: more than the usual ten percent plus for minus and
[1:11:38] Speaker 2: it has to be within two or three percent, and
[1:11:42] Speaker 2: suddenly they made a change. But ever since then they
[1:11:46] Speaker 2: moved me over to spare parts where I had to
[1:11:49] Speaker 2: fly out to That was one of my first commercial
[1:11:53] Speaker 2: air flights, was for those airfare to fly out the
[1:11:58] Speaker 2: right field, you know, high at And as I'm sitting
[1:12:02] Speaker 2: around the table with the mutual group, they're usually accountants
[1:12:08] Speaker 2: and whatever else, and they're buying magnetrons. Magnetronas the heart
[1:12:14] Speaker 2: of the radar system. It's a machine piece of eplipment,
[1:12:18] Speaker 2: and they're buying what I thought was an enormous mount.
[1:12:23] Speaker 2: I says, you know, the magnetron is the least likely
[1:12:26] Speaker 2: item to go bare down that system. You don't need
[1:12:29] Speaker 2: all of those, I mean one spare part from cover
[1:12:34] Speaker 2: a lot of territory. And I began to build the
[1:12:36] Speaker 2: wolves their parts with them, I got a twenty dollars
[1:12:39] Speaker 2: a week race. They found out that they can save
[1:12:44] Speaker 2: a lot of money not buying that. Yeah, they were
[1:12:49] Speaker 2: a good company you work for. I met doctor Ramo
[1:12:54] Speaker 2: some years later. I've been practicing law, and we were
[1:12:57] Speaker 2: at Hockcaire party in Beverly Hills and I'm introduced to
[1:13:02] Speaker 2: miss with the Rainbow and I said, oh, it's Raymond.
[1:13:07] Speaker 2: I know you have She said, yes, I remember when
[1:13:13] Speaker 2: we worked on me even one file control system. Really
[1:13:18] Speaker 2: he says SI, So I come over here here somebody
[1:13:21] Speaker 2: remembers you from US an aircraft because now he grun
[1:13:25] Speaker 2: at r W, which is incredible, uh form. And even
[1:13:32] Speaker 2: Elia said, oh, you remember the equipment. Yes, I said,
[1:13:36] Speaker 2: I remember the intercept the question r O making D mine.
[1:13:40] Speaker 2: Except it was quite surprised that I could remember the
[1:13:47] Speaker 2: intercepting quite hm. That was an interesting meeting. Yeah, kind
[1:13:54] Speaker 2: of think of anything else.
[1:13:57] Speaker 1: Let's start to talk in wrap up a little bit
[1:14:00] Speaker 1: with you know, your fifty years in law. What did
[1:14:04] Speaker 1: you do in the field of law?
[1:14:06] Speaker 2: What did I do well? When I started to practice law,
[1:14:12] Speaker 2: I had I had opened up an office near Newsday.
[1:14:19] Speaker 2: I figured I knew a lot of people there. It
[1:14:22] Speaker 2: gets a lot of traffic, and I opened up an office.
[1:14:27] Speaker 2: Didn't cost very much in those days. You needed a
[1:14:31] Speaker 2: whole library, and you get one from West Publishing. Of course,
[1:14:36] Speaker 2: you're fifty dollars a month to get a whole set
[1:14:39] Speaker 2: of books, and fifty dollars a month wasn't that much
[1:14:44] Speaker 2: more than I could afford. And the office was small.
[1:14:49] Speaker 2: But whatever your problem was with my special and so
[1:14:54] Speaker 2: I did the Youtuo accident, KS banquety cas, personal injury,
[1:15:02] Speaker 2: whatever came in. But missus Lewis was getting tired of
[1:15:08] Speaker 2: my being working days and going to school at night.
[1:15:12] Speaker 2: Oh working at night. They h get a job, get
[1:15:19] Speaker 2: a twenty four hour job. He's hating care of three
[1:15:22] Speaker 2: kids and this that's more than she can handle. Wants
[1:15:27] Speaker 2: and not having your home. And so that's what I did.
[1:15:31] Speaker 2: I went the days to get a job here, went
[1:15:34] Speaker 2: through the newspapers. So nad lawyer wanted a new young
[1:15:39] Speaker 2: lawyer and they had practice. When I get interview, it
[1:15:44] Speaker 2: turned out to be a criminal law and I do
[1:15:47] Speaker 2: remember that one of the first assignments they gave me
[1:15:51] Speaker 2: was to go out to the baby's courthouse and see
[1:16:00] Speaker 2: the client the name of John Bill and I'm really
[1:16:03] Speaker 2: just tell him that I am missed. I don't want
[1:16:08] Speaker 2: to give the name. But the lawyer said telling miss
[1:16:12] Speaker 2: Jill Smith, and I tell a client that are and
[1:16:18] Speaker 2: engaged in trial elsewhere, and it can't make it that
[1:16:24] Speaker 2: you want to just continue the case. The thirty days
[1:16:27] Speaker 2: or whatever data did he wants didn't sound too complex.
[1:16:33] Speaker 2: So I go to the courthouse. I quote like the
[1:16:37] Speaker 2: client's name it comes by and he said, well then
[1:16:43] Speaker 2: are you And I said, well, mister Smith wants me
[1:16:48] Speaker 2: to just continue the case because he's engaged elsewhere and
[1:16:51] Speaker 2: you can't make it. Okay. I'm not very happy about her,
[1:16:58] Speaker 2: but since his homely and continued, so I got in
[1:17:02] Speaker 2: cases called and get up to the video and your
[1:17:08] Speaker 2: honor mister Smith, the council of record that was undeken
[1:17:12] Speaker 2: Man disappearance engaged at this time elsewhere, and I'm just
[1:17:16] Speaker 2: looking to put over thirty days over any time convenience
[1:17:21] Speaker 2: to the court. It looks at me, he says, you're
[1:17:24] Speaker 2: mending of the bar. Yeah, yes, not yeah, yes, And
[1:17:31] Speaker 2: he says you have a bar card, and so he
[1:17:34] Speaker 2: asked show it to the club. I go over the
[1:17:38] Speaker 2: club and it looks at him and he says, your
[1:17:43] Speaker 2: case is signed to courtney an the three uh, mister,
[1:17:46] Speaker 2: mister Smith has continued in this case four times. This
[1:17:50] Speaker 2: is the time the ghost of five. I had no
[1:17:55] Speaker 2: idea what the case was about. What we're going to
[1:17:57] Speaker 2: have get assigned to the court room. H cases called.
[1:18:04] Speaker 2: He says, why you're wrong? I was here to continue
[1:18:06] Speaker 2: the manner because Smith Smith, Yeah, I said, I know.
[1:18:12] Speaker 2: And your first appearance in court yes, the mended yes
[1:18:19] Speaker 2: one year He said, all right, we'll continue for you,
[1:18:23] Speaker 2: but you don't let him know it's going to trial
[1:18:25] Speaker 2: next month. And that was my first introductor. Uh, since
[1:18:32] Speaker 2: then I'm graduating. They they handed gambling cases bookmaking, and
[1:18:41] Speaker 2: I didn't know much about her and doing much gambling.
[1:18:45] Speaker 2: But as I began running Ris Richardstead, when someone gets
[1:18:49] Speaker 2: arrested and you want to make bail, uh, you're either
[1:18:54] Speaker 2: wait until the case gets cold in the day off,
[1:18:58] Speaker 2: or you can find a judge and we tell him
[1:19:02] Speaker 2: and ask him if he was on her writ sets
[1:19:05] Speaker 2: bail and if you prevent that, to designed the writ
[1:19:10] Speaker 2: to the jail house, no releasement. So I used to
[1:19:15] Speaker 2: do that, and when I was doing it, I have
[1:19:19] Speaker 2: one of the kids whoever was giving him all my
[1:19:22] Speaker 2: trouble come along with me, and all the kids have
[1:19:27] Speaker 2: gone from my base of training with me. But I
[1:19:31] Speaker 2: got to try and search and seed. He came to
[1:19:35] Speaker 2: a form and that was my my piece of cake
[1:19:41] Speaker 2: mhm and with a whole liary, and so they started careful.
[1:19:50] Speaker 2: I soon began to recognize a lot of things about one.
[1:19:56] Speaker 2: It takes to light and search for w as in
[1:20:01] Speaker 2: a search one, and I found out that there were
[1:20:05] Speaker 2: very few people who took the time the study that
[1:20:10] Speaker 2: I also learned that the law was changing, and uh,
[1:20:15] Speaker 2: pretty soon instead of running into a client, we said
[1:20:19] Speaker 2: where the hell are you? We're coming in the offer
[1:20:22] Speaker 2: and say I want that kid that's working here, and
[1:20:27] Speaker 2: I have the answered a lot of dent cases and
[1:20:32] Speaker 2: ultimately got to the Supreme Court. Oh wow, yeah, you
[1:20:39] Speaker 2: were Supreme That wasnt the California through California course, as
[1:20:47] Speaker 2: and I tell the story, I remember being u being concerned.
[1:20:53] Speaker 2: We had a gambling case. California had a b law
[1:20:57] Speaker 2: which in the fact said that you can remember because
[1:21:01] Speaker 2: back then we had a lot of small and the
[1:21:06] Speaker 2: state finally outlawed backyard trash burning. Everybody used to learn
[1:21:12] Speaker 2: a lot of trash in the backyard and othway, and
[1:21:15] Speaker 2: so they instituted the lord that indicated that we can't
[1:21:22] Speaker 2: burn the trash in the backyard and on search ones
[1:21:27] Speaker 2: and search and see here we also said that we
[1:21:30] Speaker 2: can't search the trash. But the police from beginning to
[1:21:33] Speaker 2: do that, they were going to search your trash that
[1:21:36] Speaker 2: you put out picked up and h you can't search
[1:21:44] Speaker 2: it until it has been collected and commingled with a
[1:21:49] Speaker 2: large colomeeration of trash elsewhere and lost its identity. Uh
[1:21:55] Speaker 2: in this case that came up right after that with
[1:21:58] Speaker 2: one where the bookmaker in town, England is an honorable profession.
[1:22:04] Speaker 2: But over Harriet go to federal President. And as well
[1:22:08] Speaker 2: as this themeanor and in any that they had gone
[1:22:18] Speaker 2: into the trash room of this apartment building. They knew
[1:22:23] Speaker 2: this fellow John Doe. Again, he comes up on a
[1:22:28] Speaker 2: lot of cases that we talk about. And they had
[1:22:32] Speaker 2: searched through the trash because they knew him, and the
[1:22:37] Speaker 2: probability is then will have to dump in the trash.
[1:22:40] Speaker 2: They found a bag that they could connect to the
[1:22:45] Speaker 2: yearly he who lived and found the evidence of gambling
[1:22:53] Speaker 2: banking clips, and they didn't went and the warrant and
[1:22:59] Speaker 2: the rest of him, and we took his cave, and
[1:23:04] Speaker 2: we pointed out that they had without a warrant gone
[1:23:10] Speaker 2: and searched his grad and consequently arrested him and the
[1:23:15] Speaker 2: case by this minute, and since I had been doing
[1:23:19] Speaker 2: this for quite a while, I know most of the judges,
[1:23:24] Speaker 2: I know most of the police have been the investigation,
[1:23:29] Speaker 2: and I know they were violations. They taste insta granted.
[1:23:35] Speaker 2: And in any event, your public section calls me one
[1:23:39] Speaker 2: day and said, all right, you have a gambling case
[1:23:42] Speaker 2: search incy and no complex of the issues involved. We
[1:23:47] Speaker 2: want to take a case up to Supreme Court. I said, well,
[1:23:52] Speaker 2: I just finished one. Oh okay, yeah, that's the one
[1:23:55] Speaker 2: we want. Can we let you know that Green file
[1:24:00] Speaker 2: and Appeal will send you a copy and let you
[1:24:04] Speaker 2: know beforehand, so you can tell your client that we're
[1:24:07] Speaker 2: going about appeal. He says, yeah, and I give them
[1:24:12] Speaker 2: the name of the case and then all the client
[1:24:15] Speaker 2: and tell them that they're going to file on appeal.
[1:24:18] Speaker 2: What does that mean? Whaton't means is that it's going
[1:24:22] Speaker 2: to cost you a lot more money than this, just
[1:24:25] Speaker 2: the meaning that we just got river. How much He says, Well,
[1:24:31] Speaker 2: I can't be sure at the moment, but it's going
[1:24:33] Speaker 2: to be at least a dollar, which was a substantial difference.
[1:24:43] Speaker 2: And he said, I'm not paying ten dollars for boat
[1:24:45] Speaker 2: making case. I said, I don't blame it. I don't
[1:24:48] Speaker 2: want to go Well, what you got to do? Well,
[1:24:53] Speaker 2: the first thing is they've got to have a race
[1:24:55] Speaker 2: currented and they go through some of the things that
[1:24:59] Speaker 2: we have to I've got to go to Washington, d C.
[1:25:03] Speaker 2: I've got to find them. I'm not walking and way
[1:25:07] Speaker 2: up and so I don't want to go. Well, all
[1:25:10] Speaker 2: let them know. Now my kids have been through the
[1:25:15] Speaker 2: law school the various states, from having graduated and having
[1:25:21] Speaker 2: part way through winter and hey, you got to take it.
[1:25:26] Speaker 2: You've got to go to spring clak. I mean, guys
[1:25:29] Speaker 2: get to go into life trying to the school. Said well,
[1:25:32] Speaker 2: I don't gotta go. I doesn't want to pay and
[1:25:34] Speaker 2: I'm not going to be going there. And so that's
[1:25:38] Speaker 2: how I made that. Hey will sweep the cool you
[1:25:40] Speaker 2: will move along, we'll build all that stuff. We'll help
[1:25:44] Speaker 2: you with the pleas and it's pretty hard. Well, also,
[1:25:49] Speaker 2: I was concerned me because the federal rule is different,
[1:25:53] Speaker 2: and I remember it goes way back to World War One.
[1:25:59] Speaker 2: Now I'm from the World War two, but world War one. No.
[1:26:07] Speaker 2: What had happened was there was a German spy the
[1:26:13] Speaker 2: FBI got word of and they went to arrest him.
[1:26:21] Speaker 2: And they didn't have a ward in those days. He
[1:26:24] Speaker 2: didn't have suchain season for the extent we were today.
[1:26:28] Speaker 2: And they went to his rooms and I think they
[1:26:33] Speaker 2: got a key, or they didn't get a key, but
[1:26:36] Speaker 2: they went they went in and he wasn't there. He
[1:26:40] Speaker 2: had led his stuff out and they was a trash
[1:26:44] Speaker 2: bag or a Christian then, and they went through it
[1:26:48] Speaker 2: and they found a hollow out.
[1:26:51] Speaker 5: Nickel that was a toy in the old days where
[1:26:56] Speaker 5: it was wood, but it looked like the size of
[1:26:59] Speaker 5: the and there was a little draw in it as
[1:27:03] Speaker 5: they would.
[1:27:04] Speaker 2: Open it up, and there if they found some a
[1:27:07] Speaker 2: micaelfish small film, and they took it and they arrested
[1:27:14] Speaker 2: him in the case went to court and there was
[1:27:17] Speaker 2: no objection made to the search of the trash, and
[1:27:21] Speaker 2: the court said that that was okay, and that became
[1:27:25] Speaker 2: the rule of law in the federal system. There is
[1:27:28] Speaker 2: okay to search the trash. But of course today the
[1:27:34] Speaker 2: problem is that there's a right of privacy and if
[1:27:43] Speaker 2: there's any indication on the part of me, the defendant,
[1:27:47] Speaker 2: that he wanted to remain and you can't do it.
[1:27:55] Speaker 2: Catch with the case that said they saw a book
[1:27:58] Speaker 2: maker go into a phone with it and he closed
[1:28:03] Speaker 2: the door, and they knew what he was doing because
[1:28:06] Speaker 2: they knew what the activity was, and they listened and
[1:28:12] Speaker 2: heard a conversation and we were resting as a results,
[1:28:17] Speaker 2: and the court said that the closing of the door
[1:28:21] Speaker 2: indicated a claim of privacy, that he wanted it to
[1:28:27] Speaker 2: be private, and that World War in one case, he
[1:28:33] Speaker 2: had left the room. He abandoned the property. There was
[1:28:39] Speaker 2: no attempt to keep it secret anymore. If he had
[1:28:43] Speaker 2: a lot of them, that might have been a difference.
[1:28:46] Speaker 2: But he abandoned the room and they found it. So
[1:28:49] Speaker 2: consequently that's the federal room. So when we had this
[1:28:53] Speaker 2: case come up, my kids want me to go. You
[1:28:56] Speaker 2: got to take a wife with him. It will cost
[1:29:01] Speaker 2: me more than the ten thousand dollars of the client
[1:29:03] Speaker 2: didn't have a pet. So well, my middle son, Kim,
[1:29:11] Speaker 2: he had just passed the bar. And in other days
[1:29:14] Speaker 2: that he was allowed to work. Uh, he was allowed
[1:29:18] Speaker 2: to appear before the Supreme Court and be admitted to
[1:29:22] Speaker 2: the practice of law. Today you can go to the
[1:29:25] Speaker 2: local district court they were going in and that in
[1:29:28] Speaker 2: those days. Well, but he wanted to go to the
[1:29:31] Speaker 2: Supreme Court because him was still doing that. And so
[1:29:35] Speaker 2: he came along with me. I get the papers for
[1:29:39] Speaker 2: his admission to the bar, and I go to the
[1:29:44] Speaker 2: clerk's office and I had summited the papers to them,
[1:29:47] Speaker 2: and clerk smiles. Was nice to see a lawyer moving
[1:29:51] Speaker 2: the admission of his son. And she says, the chugen
[1:29:55] Speaker 2: will like that very much, and uh wait for Lewis.
[1:30:04] Speaker 2: I'm sorry, we can uh waigh the admission. But you're
[1:30:12] Speaker 2: after David As for his good conduct. It's something that
[1:30:17] Speaker 2: we can't accept. But why not? I know him very well?
[1:30:23] Speaker 2: She said, well, we know that the judges know. Let's
[1:30:26] Speaker 2: do That's why they expect any father to speak well
[1:30:30] Speaker 2: of the son and were better. I have to give
[1:30:33] Speaker 2: somebody else's sign. They have to David as to this
[1:30:36] Speaker 2: good find there. I am trying to get an admits
[1:30:41] Speaker 2: of the bar and the first thing I have to
[1:30:43] Speaker 2: do is commit perjury by getting somebody who doesn't know.
[1:30:47] Speaker 2: And that's a good conduct. And as I'm walking down
[1:30:52] Speaker 2: the hallway trying to figure out what I can do
[1:30:55] Speaker 2: here for a kid, I see that this is attorney
[1:31:01] Speaker 2: and the head of a peller walking down the hall.
[1:31:05] Speaker 2: Now that was what was the name again, Courtney the da? Anyway,
[1:31:16] Speaker 2: it was the DA who I knew well, and his son,
[1:31:20] Speaker 2: of course may of just recently, were not too long ago.
[1:31:26] Speaker 2: And I stopped him. I said, I'm in a favor
[1:31:30] Speaker 2: any one of your guys. Women decided him after David
[1:31:32] Speaker 2: that my kid is a good moral character. They smiled,
[1:31:37] Speaker 2: of course, and they did tip him, and we moved
[1:31:41] Speaker 2: his admission. And this was the morning they left him
[1:31:46] Speaker 2: and they asked now session, and he's sitting. Besides, now
[1:31:50] Speaker 2: I'm getting concerned, and I know it's the case that
[1:31:53] Speaker 2: we're going to have diffic time winning in light of
[1:31:56] Speaker 2: the old case place in this, and I'm concerned they're
[1:32:01] Speaker 2: going to ask me some questions about rule against perpetuity
[1:32:06] Speaker 2: is you know, the real estate problem or issue, and
[1:32:12] Speaker 2: it's kind of complicated and most law students have trouble
[1:32:16] Speaker 2: with that, and that's my biggest concern. But in any event,
[1:32:22] Speaker 2: the prosecution gets up and they make their argument, and
[1:32:26] Speaker 2: the same argument I've heard for years, and it put
[1:32:30] Speaker 2: me caught when I've better been in And so I'm
[1:32:32] Speaker 2: kind of relaxed about that. And so as I get
[1:32:36] Speaker 2: up to speak, Justice Sphalia starts and before I concern
[1:32:43] Speaker 2: anything other than your honor, and he said, tell me, counsel,
[1:32:50] Speaker 2: if I are a neighbor of yours and you were too,
[1:32:55] Speaker 2: you are to take the trash, not on the grand
[1:33:00] Speaker 2: portion of your property, but off into the real off
[1:33:04] Speaker 2: the curve and I would do something that interested me,
[1:33:10] Speaker 2: and I were to take it, and what's the name?
[1:33:19] Speaker 2: We can't ye know? Well, I believe that you know, yeah,
[1:33:28] Speaker 2: And if you were to come by, and if I
[1:33:33] Speaker 2: were to come by and to take something from that trench,
[1:33:36] Speaker 2: can if you opposition, I think could have me arrested.
[1:33:41] Speaker 2: And you can't figure out wine put this question and
[1:33:46] Speaker 2: answer if when your owner, I don't know if I
[1:33:48] Speaker 2: can have you arrested, because that would depend on what
[1:33:51] Speaker 2: we took the value of it, if you intended to
[1:33:55] Speaker 2: permanently declinde me of it. And he says, well, that
[1:34:01] Speaker 2: was a bad suppose I took big bond, bitch lord
[1:34:07] Speaker 2: of trying to put it in the box, tiny ribbon
[1:34:10] Speaker 2: around it and put it underneath the palm bench. And
[1:34:14] Speaker 2: he says, why your honor, as you know, particularly when
[1:34:20] Speaker 2: comes to the Supreme Court, for argued, I'm not sure
[1:34:24] Speaker 2: I said that, but putting an owner of mac a
[1:34:27] Speaker 2: po man is an open field, and nobody has a
[1:34:31] Speaker 2: reasonable expectation of privacy in an open field. And I
[1:34:38] Speaker 2: see him winging back, and this I can't repeat because
[1:34:42] Speaker 2: I can't prove it, and I'm not sure that what
[1:34:45] Speaker 2: I heard was the rank, but he leans over. He's
[1:34:48] Speaker 2: smiled him the justice next to him. There's something that
[1:34:52] Speaker 2: that was good lawyering. At least I believe that to
[1:34:55] Speaker 2: this day. But if that's what he said, but the
[1:34:58] Speaker 2: original said, in any event, the rest of the bench, Uh,
[1:35:07] Speaker 2: they take up my time. Uh they're answering questions. I'm
[1:35:11] Speaker 2: responding to them. When it's over, we leave the corn out.
[1:35:18] Speaker 2: The pressure comes over. They were interested, and they said,
[1:35:24] Speaker 2: I said, Louis, you wouldn't try a Laurie in that case,
[1:35:26] Speaker 2: weren't you. I said, well, yes, I was the rag.
[1:35:32] Speaker 2: And they said, well, you know, when you watch the
[1:35:34] Speaker 2: Supreme Court all the time, and when the justices takes
[1:35:38] Speaker 2: the vayus away from their notes, uh, a lot of
[1:35:42] Speaker 2: us spungle. And you responded to the entire bench, and
[1:35:47] Speaker 2: so we think that you must have been buy to
[1:35:49] Speaker 2: handle the case the regular know all. I took that
[1:35:57] Speaker 2: the greatest compliment I can have had. H And I
[1:36:02] Speaker 2: still feel my kids that the end result was a
[1:36:06] Speaker 2: couple of weeks later, the rooming comes down that social
[1:36:14] Speaker 2: it should not have been granted. It wouldn't affect me
[1:36:18] Speaker 2: if they shouldn't have taken the case. So we didn't win.
[1:36:23] Speaker 2: And if my kids say, Dad, you didn't lose, but
[1:36:27] Speaker 2: I understand that. So when you didn't saying you didn't
[1:36:30] Speaker 2: win because we didn't win. We didn't lose, but we
[1:36:34] Speaker 2: didn't win. But as I was getting called from most
[1:36:39] Speaker 2: of my h friends on the bar, but this was
[1:36:48] Speaker 2: an accomplishment. They also and I said to you that
[1:36:53] Speaker 2: I got this phone call and what kind of a
[1:36:57] Speaker 2: case knew? How it's drugs. You're not going to get
[1:37:01] Speaker 2: the same result because it's a drugcase. This is a
[1:37:06] Speaker 2: gambling case, and there's the difference in the outlook on
[1:37:11] Speaker 2: that issue. I'm sure enough. Another case came up and
[1:37:19] Speaker 2: they found against the defendants. So that was a small
[1:37:26] Speaker 2: win if you will, but when you in a case
[1:37:30] Speaker 2: does not depend on a complete win. If human can
[1:37:36] Speaker 2: a defending from getting the worst punishment available, then what
[1:37:41] Speaker 2: the canda owners well, and I had one of that
[1:37:47] Speaker 2: was very vague. It was that why you goose your case?
[1:37:53] Speaker 2: Where I had a client who was brought into it. Oh,
[1:37:58] Speaker 2: I was convinced, ruined, My heart was not. They were
[1:38:03] Speaker 2: trying to do the move and it's not going in.
[1:38:07] Speaker 2: Then he detailed, Uh, there were ten defendants and he
[1:38:14] Speaker 2: had a reputation in Boston. Uh that blessed no one down.
[1:38:20] Speaker 2: I recall when we were swinking the jury that none
[1:38:26] Speaker 2: of the jur had ever heard his name before. They
[1:38:31] Speaker 2: didn't know him or anything about him. My client was
[1:38:35] Speaker 2: a Sino hope.
[1:38:38] Speaker 6: While they had been a book banker years before when
[1:38:44] Speaker 6: he moved to Vegas and he got a job knowing like,
[1:38:50] Speaker 6: you know, the business from one of the hotels.
[1:38:55] Speaker 2: Uh. He was not doing that, but somebody who had
[1:39:00] Speaker 2: been arrested by instead in Boston when he was interviewed
[1:39:08] Speaker 2: and he was asked if he knew about any people
[1:39:11] Speaker 2: like that in Vegas, and we claimed that he did it,
[1:39:17] Speaker 2: and we find out that he named my client because
[1:39:22] Speaker 2: he had known him and named him. We didn't win
[1:39:28] Speaker 2: that case because I had some testimony to put on
[1:39:33] Speaker 2: that the judge and refused to allow in and we
[1:39:38] Speaker 2: were waiting to see whether he needed to take this
[1:39:42] Speaker 2: on appeal together, for h never handles the sentences and
[1:39:49] Speaker 2: probably deserted me. So, but my client was in a
[1:39:55] Speaker 2: straight promation and I considered that a win.
[1:39:58] Speaker 3: Yeah, got him out of jail.
[1:40:00] Speaker 2: Right there should have been they should not have been,
[1:40:04] Speaker 2: but things like that happened that's it's interesting. Yeah, I
[1:40:17] Speaker 2: stopped because by hearing and fall on the lower level,
[1:40:23] Speaker 2: I was pretty health until it was and that's when
[1:40:29] Speaker 2: I decided that they can't ask the joke what he
[1:40:32] Speaker 2: said too many times before, Arthur.
[1:40:38] Speaker 1: As we kind of wind down here, I mean, I
[1:40:40] Speaker 1: appreciate you, you know, talking at length about your career.
[1:40:45] Speaker 3: What's kind of finish up.
[1:40:46] Speaker 1: I'd like to ask you about turning one hundred years
[1:40:48] Speaker 1: old and what that experience was like and what you know,
[1:40:54] Speaker 1: any big reflections from a very long life that you've lived,
[1:40:57] Speaker 1: a very colorful one too.
[1:41:00] Speaker 2: Well, I don't know about the colorful. It was interesting.
[1:41:07] Speaker 2: It always feels good to win, but mostly it's questions.
[1:41:13] Speaker 2: A hm. I feel like I can walk into any
[1:41:16] Speaker 2: court in my bedd of wmen and I'll have the
[1:41:20] Speaker 2: respect for the judge. You don't argue useless cases. We
[1:41:26] Speaker 2: did to trying to do the best you can for
[1:41:28] Speaker 2: your client, and that's allowable and that's good. And you
[1:41:34] Speaker 2: never lie to the court. That's uppermost. I see cases
[1:41:40] Speaker 2: today where lawyer's going to court and they've submitted a
[1:41:44] Speaker 2: grief giving names to your case or citing a case
[1:41:50] Speaker 2: that doesn't disis I can't understand that not but longs
[1:41:59] Speaker 2: I don't understand in it because the first thing you
[1:42:01] Speaker 2: could do with the lawyer when the other side submitted
[1:42:06] Speaker 2: read you read every one of those cases, since I
[1:42:10] Speaker 2: do know when it comes to return, and if it doesn't,
[1:42:15] Speaker 2: then you tell them why it doesn't. If you could
[1:42:18] Speaker 2: win a lucer case just because you found something that
[1:42:21] Speaker 2: they quoted, that isn't acci And I can imagine where
[1:42:26] Speaker 2: Jodge fields when you find out the dollar official governments. Why,
[1:42:31] Speaker 2: but you can't put all official intelligence in jail. That's
[1:42:36] Speaker 2: the lawyer.
[1:42:37] Speaker 3: Not yet.
[1:42:42] Speaker 2: Well, I'm proud of so of my granddaughther, a strange
[1:42:48] Speaker 2: young girl, very Bridy. Always has been top of her class,
[1:42:53] Speaker 2: and she didn't want her to go into the field.
[1:42:58] Speaker 2: That what she wanted to And she wanted to go
[1:43:04] Speaker 2: to China and gov to for known somebody, oh see
[1:43:16] Speaker 2: the right direction to get him into one of the
[1:43:20] Speaker 2: best schools in China.
[1:43:22] Speaker 3: Wow.
[1:43:24] Speaker 2: Yes, And we graduated from of her clans and then
[1:43:31] Speaker 2: decided she wanted to go to law school. Yeah, and
[1:43:35] Speaker 2: she's done that and so now she's run an interesting career.
[1:43:40] Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I mean, so she's a lawyer
[1:43:42] Speaker 1: that speaks Mandarin.
[1:43:46] Speaker 2: Repeat that one.
[1:43:47] Speaker 1: Your granddaughter is a lawyer that also speaks Mandarin.
[1:43:50] Speaker 2: Then well I didn't more than just a laws but.
[1:43:56] Speaker 3: I mean that's a rare skill.
[1:44:00] Speaker 2: Oh I'll tell you if I needed a lawyer, and
[1:44:03] Speaker 2: that's because she speaks Chinese. Because she's a good student,
[1:44:11] Speaker 2: good student, honorable, highest models any law firm, and I
[1:44:19] Speaker 2: know that they know that when they get the UH
[1:44:25] Speaker 2: have other advantage kids that I'm proudly also to speak
[1:44:31] Speaker 2: for himselves.
[1:44:33] Speaker 1: Well, author, I really appreciate you spending some of your
[1:44:36] Speaker 1: Saturday with us before we get going today. Any any
[1:44:40] Speaker 1: final thoughts, anything you want to make sure we touch
[1:44:42] Speaker 1: upon before we get going.
[1:44:45] Speaker 2: I can't think of anything. If I can turn to
[1:44:47] Speaker 2: my assistance for me. Thanks great, I mean, okay, no,
[1:44:55] Speaker 2: she has nothing to all.
[1:44:58] Speaker 3: Okay, Well, thank you author for sharing your life story
[1:45:02] Speaker 3: with us. We really appreciate it.
[1:45:05] Speaker 1: It was really fun to hear your experiences from World
[1:45:07] Speaker 1: War Two through your legal career, and some of these
[1:45:10] Speaker 1: they sound like some of them were landmark cases. Really
[1:45:13] Speaker 1: that kind of are still with us to this day.
[1:45:18] Speaker 1: So thank you again, and thank you everyone who joined
[1:45:20] Speaker 1: us tonight. Appreciate it, and we will see you next time.
[1:45:24] Speaker 2: I love me, just close saying as soon as I
[1:45:28] Speaker 2: leave here, I'll thank you for a few of them
[1:45:30] Speaker 2: things that I should have said, and I would like
[1:45:33] Speaker 2: to Courtney and a whole about it, and she can
[1:45:36] Speaker 2: pass that one whether it's worth talking about it again. Okay,
[1:45:40] Speaker 2: take care.
[1:45:40] Speaker 3: Thank you for the opportunity, absolutely, Thank you. Author. Feel
[1:45:43] Speaker 3: free to reach out or have Courtney reach out anytime.
[1:45:47] Speaker 2: Thank you.
[1:45:52] Speaker 1: Hey, guys, I want to take a moment to tell
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[1:46:32] Speaker 1: It's just a kind of roll up of all of
[1:46:34] Speaker 1: our content on a weekly basis. You can find our
[1:46:37] Speaker 1: newsletter at teamhouse podcast dot kit dot com slash Join again.
[1:46:43] Speaker 1: The website for that is teamhouse podcast, dot kit dot
[1:46:47] Speaker 1: com slash Join, so we hope to see you there.
[1:46:50] Speaker 3: The link will be down the description

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