# From Nukes to Missiles to Proxies: The Iran Deal Keeps Changing | EYES ON GEOPOLITICS

An episode of [The Team House](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1492797340), 9 Feb 2026, 46 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/clrtpod.com/m/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/69876024/iran_negotiations_audio.mp3

We break down the U.S.–Iran negotiations and why the goalposts keep moving from nukes to missiles to proxy forces. With Israel, Turkey, and U.S. military power all in play, we dig into whether this is real diplomacy—or a setup for the next Middle East war. Andy's article: https://warontherocks.com/2026/01/gaza-and-the-conduct-of-urban-war-civilian-harm-risk-and-responsibility/ Montana Security Conference ⬇️ https://mi1.suitsandspooks.com/ Support the show on Patreon:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Subscribe to our new newsletter!!!! https://teamhousepodcast.kit.com/join New merch, patches, and stickers! ⬇️ https://theteamhouse-shop.fourthwall.com Check out Mick's new podcast here:⬇️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/at/podcast/pub-and-porch-applied-stoicism/id1836955475 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1k3QPmkAMwnGJxMLDwUSSd?si=n6piIu8XRcag1Z0K43A3bQ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@UCd0Hq6QFk8CoTu5j-VU0Ong Find Mick Mulroy here: Fogbow ⬇️ https://fogbow.com/ Lobo Institute ⬇️ https://www.loboinstitute.org/ Twitter ⬇️ https://x.com/mickmulroy?s=21&t=-Ze3F_Ix2vlJ18KFvORTCA LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-patrick-mulroy-31198b52/ Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/mickmulroy.bsky.social Mick’s publications ⬇️ https://www.loboinstitute.org/publications/publications-of-michael-mick-patrick-mulroy/ Find Andy Milburn here: Twitter ⬇️ https://twitter.com/i/flow/login?redirect_after_login=%2Fandymilburn8 LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmilburn2023 Substack ⬇️ https://amilburn.substack.com/ Andy’s book ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/When-Tempest-Gathers-Mogadishu-Operations Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/andy-milburn.bsky.social Find Jason Lyons here: LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-lyons-666873316?u Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/bgsilverback73.bsky.social "Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio" 00:00 Start 01:30 Iran Negotiations and Military Posturing 06:42 Key Players in the Iran Negotiations 11:47 The Nuclear Deal Dilemma 15:05 The Role of Turkey in Regional Dynamics 20:32 Kurdish Perspectives and U.S. Relations 25:35 The Future of Iran's Leadership 29:57 Syria's Complex Landscape 36:42 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Hey, what's up, guys. This is d Do us a
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[0:19] Speaker 1: so and you help support the show and support what
[0:21] Speaker 1: we're doing here. It's patreon dot com Slash the Teamhouse.
[0:26] Speaker 1: Those links are in the description or if you're listening,
[0:28] Speaker 1: it's in the show notes down below, so you can
[0:30] Speaker 1: click it real quick and easy, and it helps us
[0:33] Speaker 1: keep the lights on. So we appreciate it, and we
[0:36] Speaker 1: appreciate you guys listening. Thanks a bunch. Hey everybody, welcome
[0:41] Speaker 1: to another episode of Eyes on Geopollocks. I'm here with
[0:43] Speaker 1: Andy Milburn, Mick mulroy, Jason Lyons maybe joining us may
[0:47] Speaker 1: not be having some technical issues on his end, but
[0:50] Speaker 1: we will think about him the whole time. A lot
[0:53] Speaker 1: happening as usual. First things first, let's do some house cleaning,
[0:56] Speaker 1: mix Scott. They have a security conference intelligence conference happening
[1:00] Speaker 1: in Whitefish in April beginning of April. That link is
[1:03] Speaker 1: in the description.
[1:04] Speaker 2: Check it out.
[1:05] Speaker 1: There's some great speakers that are going to be there,
[1:08] Speaker 1: and Whitefish is all around great place to go. Andy Milburn,
[1:13] Speaker 1: the Man, the Myth, the Legend, stirring up trouble as
[1:16] Speaker 1: usual his book When the Tempest Gathers. That link is
[1:20] Speaker 1: in the description as well his substack too. You could
[1:22] Speaker 1: check out his new article on War on the Rocks
[1:25] Speaker 1: too that he's getting a lot of guff online for it,
[1:30] Speaker 1: but I don't think it's not rightfully so, because I
[1:32] Speaker 1: think Andy's right about it.
[1:33] Speaker 2: So check that out. It's a really good article.
[1:36] Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a by the way on that point. There's
[1:38] Speaker 3: a War on the Rocks podcast coming out this week
[1:42] Speaker 3: with music Ast. I sometimes stooped to do other podcasts
[1:45] Speaker 3: where I discuss kind of a rebuttal to the rebuttals
[1:49] Speaker 3: to that document, just very quickly, because there's a lot
[1:52] Speaker 3: of fallacious information that's not a crude word, the false
[1:58] Speaker 3: information flying around, and especially with the comparison with Mozil.
[2:03] Speaker 3: People love throwing out numbers of mosil and have no
[2:05] Speaker 3: bearing in fact. Okay, that is all so off my chest.
[2:08] Speaker 1: Go ahead, d Yeah, check out the article. It's a
[2:11] Speaker 1: really really good article. And stay tuned and keep your
[2:13] Speaker 1: eye out for that podcast coming out with War of
[2:15] Speaker 1: the Rocks. All right, a lot happening as usual. We had,
[2:22] Speaker 1: you know, the US and Iran had discussions over the
[2:25] Speaker 1: last few days. Initially last week they were gonna have
[2:28] Speaker 1: they had to set up a meeting. The meeting went
[2:30] Speaker 1: to shit, and then if like six hours or eight
[2:33] Speaker 1: hours later, the meeting was back on. A lot going on.
[2:37] Speaker 1: It seems like to me at least, like what it's
[2:40] Speaker 1: coming out is, we want Iran to get rid of
[2:43] Speaker 1: their nuclear program, get rid of their ballistic missiles, and
[2:45] Speaker 1: get rid of their support of proxies. As a layman,
[2:50] Speaker 1: I don't I mean I hate Ranni. The Iranian regime
[2:53] Speaker 1: is actually is bad news obviously, but like, if you're around,
[2:56] Speaker 1: how do you get rid of your ballistic missiles? When
[2:59] Speaker 1: we talked about Ita week, it's like a huge it's
[3:01] Speaker 1: like a super important part of their integrated defense network.
[3:07] Speaker 4: Yes, that's true. So greetings from still in Bozeman, Montana,
[3:12] Speaker 4: where we're doing winter warfare training. Although it was sixty
[3:17] Speaker 4: degrees yesterday, that's problematic if you're wondering for winter warfare training.
[3:23] Speaker 4: But yes, so coverage this week was primarily on the
[3:28] Speaker 4: Iranian negotiations. I think it's important to point out that
[3:32] Speaker 4: the situation Iran is dire and getting worse. So the
[3:37] Speaker 4: prediction of the World Bank is that the economy will
[3:42] Speaker 4: actually contract and Iran by three percent this year. They're
[3:47] Speaker 4: already about between thirty and forty percent inflation rates. Put
[3:50] Speaker 4: in perspective, we're about two point seven. I think I
[3:53] Speaker 4: looked it up, so I sound like I know I
[3:55] Speaker 4: was talking about, but obviously there the reality. Their currency
[4:02] Speaker 4: has lost half of its value in a year, so
[4:05] Speaker 4: it's predicted to get far worse. And there's additional sanctions
[4:09] Speaker 4: that are going to be placed on companies and essentially
[4:15] Speaker 4: pressure for financial institutions not to deal with they're on.
[4:19] Speaker 4: So it's going to get worse. So there's a it's
[4:22] Speaker 4: bad and it's going it's getting worse. So there's a
[4:24] Speaker 4: lot of incentive I think by the Iranian regime, which
[4:29] Speaker 4: is under incredible protests still they've incarcerated over fifty thousand people,
[4:34] Speaker 4: killed over ten thousand people to have these negotiations. So
[4:39] Speaker 4: the United States, I think from a diplomatic perspective, has
[4:44] Speaker 4: an upper hand, and the huge inflow of military power.
[4:52] Speaker 4: You know, aircraft carrier straight groups already there. I think
[4:55] Speaker 4: another one's on the way. There's eight or nine destroyers,
[4:59] Speaker 4: there's multiple squadrons. I think it's eclipsed the amount of
[5:06] Speaker 4: firepower we've had prior to the Twelfth Day conflict. So
[5:11] Speaker 4: that's and I think that was purposeful, right, And there
[5:13] Speaker 4: was during these negotiations they actually had Admiral Cooper in them,
[5:17] Speaker 4: which the Iranians made a big deal about. Generally speaking
[5:20] Speaker 4: that from a diplomatic perspective, it's not normal. But I
[5:25] Speaker 4: think they're just highlighting that this is either going to
[5:27] Speaker 4: go into a diplomatic solution that we agree with, or
[5:32] Speaker 4: it's going down the military path. And I think that
[5:34] Speaker 4: is in fact what's going to happen. So a few
[5:38] Speaker 4: more points and then toss it over to you. Any
[5:42] Speaker 4: It was originally scheduled to be in Ankara, Turkey. The
[5:46] Speaker 4: Iranians wanted it move to moscot Oman. I think they
[5:50] Speaker 4: do like the Omani's being the mediators more so than
[5:55] Speaker 4: the Turks. But it was viewed originally by the Americans'
[5:59] Speaker 4: delaying tactic, like this, Okay, here we go. It's going
[6:02] Speaker 4: to be a lot of delaying tactics just to avoid
[6:05] Speaker 4: the military strikes. They both came out of the meeting positive.
[6:10] Speaker 4: It took the US a little bit longer to have
[6:13] Speaker 4: a positive statement, probably because it was mister Wikoff and
[6:17] Speaker 4: Kushner there and they needed to brief the president and
[6:20] Speaker 4: President make his own determination of whether it was positive.
[6:24] Speaker 4: But they're almost always say they're positive, so I don't
[6:27] Speaker 4: I wouldn't read too much into that. Unless there's another
[6:30] Speaker 4: date set for continued the negotiations, this could easily slip
[6:35] Speaker 4: into the military confrontation phase. And I do think this
[6:40] Speaker 4: also allows the United States last point to get the
[6:44] Speaker 4: theater air and missile defense systems that they need out there.
[6:48] Speaker 4: You know that the patriots, there's a lot of concern
[6:52] Speaker 4: about the retaliation that's coming from the Uranians want strikes
[6:56] Speaker 4: if strikes happen, So that should be done here shortly,
[7:00] Speaker 4: and then we'll see whether this is going to end
[7:02] Speaker 4: in a negotiated new agreement and we can talk about
[7:07] Speaker 4: the ballistic missiles and the support to proxies that the
[7:10] Speaker 4: US is demanding be part of this, or at least
[7:12] Speaker 4: is wanting it to be part of this. I don't
[7:15] Speaker 4: think Iran will. We'll agree to that anyway, that's where
[7:20] Speaker 4: we are right now.
[7:21] Speaker 3: And yeah, yeah, you know, I'm going to take just
[7:24] Speaker 3: a step back, guys, because someone you know how I
[7:30] Speaker 3: pay such close attention to all the input we get
[7:33] Speaker 3: out for every show, but some of that's hard to
[7:37] Speaker 3: it here to actually like get rid of Andy. But
[7:41] Speaker 3: I've got a constructive argument, constructive comment the other day,
[7:47] Speaker 3: just saying, hey, look, before you start talking about, you know,
[7:50] Speaker 3: using all these names, can you just explain who's who?
[7:52] Speaker 5: All right? So leave out the obvious ones.
[7:54] Speaker 3: We assume everyone knows who Donald Trump is President of
[7:57] Speaker 3: the United States, and then you know who I'm an
[8:00] Speaker 3: s of Israel, a boss, a boss hopefully not but
[8:05] Speaker 3: his name Boss Arachi, who is the Iran's foreign minister.
[8:11] Speaker 3: He's you know, And I'll say just a line or
[8:14] Speaker 3: two about them. I mean, he's signaling openness, but in
[8:18] Speaker 3: practice he's drawing hard red lines.
[8:20] Speaker 5: And we talked about that. And the hard red.
[8:22] Speaker 3: Lines primarily have to do with Iran's ballistic missile defense,
[8:26] Speaker 3: but also to a lesser extent proxies. We we often
[8:30] Speaker 3: talked to Iran's supreme leader and I got a question
[8:33] Speaker 3: about that. That's a al KAMENI uh, and his role
[8:37] Speaker 3: on all of this is to threaten, continuously threaten regional war, right,
[8:41] Speaker 3: just to keep the the stakes up. Steve Wickkarf is
[8:46] Speaker 3: Trump's en boy.
[8:48] Speaker 5: Who are who?
[8:50] Speaker 3: Along with Jared Kushner representing the United States. Yeah, and
[8:56] Speaker 3: an Admiral Admiral Cooper. Sorry, Bradley Cooper, Emerald Admiral Bradley Sorry.
[9:06] Speaker 4: There isn't a Bradley. Bradley Cooper is a sid com commentary.
[9:09] Speaker 2: And he's he's a beloved actor.
[9:12] Speaker 3: Yeah, sorry, Bradley Cooper. Yeah, I was I was thinking
[9:15] Speaker 3: of a so comp commander.
[9:16] Speaker 5: My apologies. I punted that one under this sense.
[9:19] Speaker 3: Anyway, Bradley Cooper, who is there is unusual to have
[9:24] Speaker 3: a military leader at talks such as this, hence the
[9:29] Speaker 3: the Uranians comments about that. And last of all, Recep
[9:35] Speaker 3: who is the president of Turkey and he's a big
[9:40] Speaker 3: player in these talks. Trump the other day called him,
[9:46] Speaker 3: I'm laughing, a problem solver, all right now, Mick, and
[9:51] Speaker 3: I know, in the role of problem maker. So it's
[9:56] Speaker 3: it's quite unusual to hear him referred to in these terms.
[9:58] Speaker 3: And he credits so with bringing peace to Syria, right,
[10:04] Speaker 3: overthrow of Asad. He he Creditsuwan with forcing compromise between
[10:11] Speaker 3: the Government of Syria and the SDF, and now he
[10:15] Speaker 3: says that is the guy voted the guy most likely
[10:19] Speaker 3: to bring about peace through negotiation in the beliefe, and
[10:23] Speaker 3: Dawan is doing his best to do so, reaching out
[10:26] Speaker 3: to the Iranians. But you know, US and Iran are
[10:32] Speaker 3: certainly talking, but they're kind of talking past each other, right,
[10:37] Speaker 3: and it's going to be very interesting to see whether
[10:43] Speaker 3: they can agree to some kind of compromise. I don't
[10:46] Speaker 3: think the nuclear piece is a massive nuclear issue. I
[10:49] Speaker 3: think Iran a massive issue. I think Iran's willing to compromise.
[10:53] Speaker 3: They've already talked about. I don't think you Arenians haven't
[10:56] Speaker 3: agreed to this yet. But Dan's suggesting that anything over
[11:00] Speaker 3: three percent, any uranium that's enriched beyond three percent is
[11:03] Speaker 3: exported to Turkey and held and safe keeping. That similar
[11:07] Speaker 3: to remember when the Russians offered to do the same
[11:11] Speaker 3: back before before the check power. Iran wants the talks
[11:17] Speaker 3: to be exclusively nuclear, and the US is saying right
[11:21] Speaker 3: now that's not enough. In Washington wants three things, and
[11:25] Speaker 3: then to Iran's nuclear program. We talked about that limits
[11:28] Speaker 3: on ballistic missiles. They know we haven't made clear what
[11:31] Speaker 3: those limits are. And also an end to support for
[11:34] Speaker 3: proxy militias across the region. Now, that last piece, even
[11:37] Speaker 3: if Iran agreed to, would be really difficult to monitor.
[11:41] Speaker 2: Ah, So.
[11:45] Speaker 3: While negotiations going underway, you know, obviously President Trumps threatening
[11:50] Speaker 3: devastating consequences if Iran refuses a deal, and those consequences
[11:55] Speaker 3: would be.
[11:55] Speaker 5: Not just military, but also economic.
[11:57] Speaker 3: And as Mick talked about, United States is already they
[12:01] Speaker 3: haven't imposed sanctions yet, but they're threatening to impose sanctions
[12:04] Speaker 3: and countries or dealing so the wrong which would Hitchhina
[12:07] Speaker 3: particularly hard. And US forces in the region still continuously
[12:12] Speaker 3: still continue that a state of high readiness.
[12:18] Speaker 5: And that is all.
[12:20] Speaker 3: Yeah, back to you guys, it's diplomacy with a loaded
[12:24] Speaker 3: gun on the table.
[12:27] Speaker 4: So on the nuclear issue, I mean, we were talking
[12:29] Speaker 4: about this before we started recording, Like, I don't understand
[12:33] Speaker 4: the logic of the regime when it comes to it.
[12:38] Speaker 4: If they didn't have an aspiration to get a nuclear weapon,
[12:41] Speaker 4: they would be under much I'm just looking at from
[12:43] Speaker 4: their perspective, they wouldn't be under the same financial economic
[12:47] Speaker 4: pressure that they're under, right, So their regime itself wouldn't
[12:52] Speaker 4: be in danger of collapse necessarily, at least not from
[12:55] Speaker 4: that which is would polarize the whole population. Is economics, right,
[13:00] Speaker 4: everybody's pacted by the fact that they can't buy food
[13:03] Speaker 4: for their family, et cetera. So either give it up
[13:08] Speaker 4: and get back into the Community of Nations or hopefully
[13:11] Speaker 4: not acquire one. But they're in the worst position. They
[13:15] Speaker 4: have four hundred and forty one kilograms of rintreating them
[13:20] Speaker 4: up to sixty percent, which is not needed at all
[13:22] Speaker 4: for civilian purposes. So they're right in the middle, right,
[13:24] Speaker 4: So I don't think we should ever allow them to
[13:29] Speaker 4: acquire a nuclear weapon. They're completely unstable and obviously not
[13:32] Speaker 4: even logical, at least from my perspective. So I think
[13:35] Speaker 4: they could potentially be willing to do that. Now, are
[13:39] Speaker 4: we going to accept a win? That's the question, even
[13:43] Speaker 4: like it could be more stringent than the JCP way
[13:46] Speaker 4: that Andy just referenced, like the first agreement, the first one, right,
[13:51] Speaker 4: So if it's a better agreement politically, not that I
[13:56] Speaker 4: worry about political you know, wins, but politically it right,
[14:00] Speaker 4: So if you have to include ballistic missiles. You might
[14:07] Speaker 4: sink the whole chances of of this being successful in
[14:11] Speaker 4: support to proxies, it's gonna almost hard. It's impossible to.
[14:14] Speaker 1: Yeah, just put it in the in the press, press release,
[14:18] Speaker 1: and just do it covertly like that's what do we
[14:20] Speaker 1: do live in the real world.
[14:21] Speaker 4: Or get a nuclear agreement. This is the This was
[14:23] Speaker 4: the argument that we made in the VOD when we
[14:26] Speaker 4: pulled out of the jcp ON in the first place. Yes,
[14:31] Speaker 4: proxies are a problem, destabilized the Middle East, ballistic missile
[14:35] Speaker 4: program obviously not good. Address them separately. Why not get
[14:41] Speaker 4: them to agree never to have a nuclear weapon and
[14:43] Speaker 4: take that as a win for the world. And then
[14:45] Speaker 4: if there's issues with you know, using proxy forces to
[14:49] Speaker 4: attack our partners, address it, tack them back, or come
[14:53] Speaker 4: up with a new sanction regime, but requiring it all
[14:58] Speaker 4: to be in one bill unless we intend to mow
[15:03] Speaker 4: the grass literally, which costs billions of dollars to send
[15:07] Speaker 4: all this military power over there and risk obviously the
[15:13] Speaker 4: lives of the servicemen and women that are carrying us
[15:15] Speaker 4: out on a regular basis, why not actually get an
[15:20] Speaker 4: agreement that is better for us, better than the JCP
[15:24] Speaker 4: away if you care about that, and better for the region.
[15:28] Speaker 4: So hopefully that's where this ends up. You know, we'll
[15:32] Speaker 4: have to see the Iranians get a vote. But I
[15:34] Speaker 4: don't know, quite frankly, what is acceptable to the US
[15:39] Speaker 4: right now, whether they'll they'll live with just a better
[15:42] Speaker 4: version of the JCP away or well.
[15:45] Speaker 1: So President Trump was on his plane and he was
[15:47] Speaker 1: asked about it, and he I don't know if he
[15:49] Speaker 1: misspoke or what, but he did mention about like the
[15:52] Speaker 1: nuclear program being the number one thing, not so much proxies,
[15:56] Speaker 1: not so much ballistic missiles. So he has a meeting
[16:01] Speaker 1: this week to bb News, coming to Washington again for
[16:05] Speaker 1: like the seventh time, I think it is, to talk
[16:07] Speaker 1: about this. So I have a I have a feeling
[16:11] Speaker 1: that after that meeting will be you know, there'll be
[16:13] Speaker 1: an Axios piece, you know, detailing what went down and
[16:17] Speaker 1: where we stand exactly with this. But it kind of
[16:23] Speaker 1: feels like we're moving the goalpost a little bit, like
[16:25] Speaker 1: we don't want a deal to happen, and we really
[16:26] Speaker 1: want to bomb these guys, and it's like that's a
[16:29] Speaker 1: win if they're down for like you know, legitimately denuclearizing,
[16:34] Speaker 1: getting rid of their uranium that's enriched to sixty percent,
[16:38] Speaker 1: inspectors coming in, you know, like a real deal, actual thing.
[16:41] Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's as big of a diplomatic win
[16:46] Speaker 1: that the administration is going to like hope to get.
[16:49] Speaker 5: Yeah, I think I am.
[16:52] Speaker 3: I mean, I of course, who knows what's happening, But
[16:54] Speaker 3: I would disagree with the fact that that we that
[16:58] Speaker 3: the the it seems to be that there will be
[17:01] Speaker 3: a war. I think that's unknown. But I think I
[17:04] Speaker 3: think some of the messaging coming from the administration is
[17:07] Speaker 3: that Trump would be quite happy with a narrow nuclear
[17:11] Speaker 3: deal combined with sanctions relief. He can paint that as
[17:16] Speaker 3: war without firing a shot. Iran could sell it as
[17:20] Speaker 3: survival under pressure, and the only unhappy party would.
[17:24] Speaker 5: Be Israel, because.
[17:28] Speaker 3: Israel is going to think that negotiates, successful negotiations will
[17:33] Speaker 3: rescue the regime in Tehran when it looked weakened. It's
[17:37] Speaker 3: a it's a kind of a one to eighty for
[17:39] Speaker 3: Israel in the last month. To remember Netna Who when
[17:43] Speaker 3: when the talk was backing the protests, Netna Who commented
[17:48] Speaker 3: in an interview with the Economists that revolutions are better
[17:51] Speaker 3: undertaken or more likely to be successful if managed from within,
[17:57] Speaker 3: was you know, paraphrasing his quote, but he he was
[18:00] Speaker 3: worried about regional win stability. But now that it looks
[18:03] Speaker 3: as though new negotiations might be something that the US
[18:08] Speaker 3: is open to keeping it narrow to just the nuclear issue,
[18:13] Speaker 3: then then Israel is getting slightly very nervous. Hence Netna
[18:17] Speaker 3: whose planned visit head the United States.
[18:20] Speaker 2: Well like this just it's.
[18:22] Speaker 3: Not the first time, of course he's made an effort
[18:24] Speaker 3: to change American policy by talking directly to Congress for instance.
[18:29] Speaker 4: Right, yeah, just a fact check myself. So I knew
[18:34] Speaker 4: that the USS George Bush carriers Strike aircraft carriers Strike
[18:39] Speaker 4: who had left Norfolk. But it's according to cyber relords here,
[18:43] Speaker 4: it's it's not known whether it's actually headed to the
[18:45] Speaker 4: Middle East. It has left, so maybe it is. That's
[18:48] Speaker 4: what That's the other one I was referring to.
[18:50] Speaker 1: So you already have two aircraft carrier groups there, right,
[18:54] Speaker 1: aircraft carrier carriage.
[18:55] Speaker 4: So you have the USS Abraham Lincoln which has a
[19:00] Speaker 4: helping ships that's.
[19:01] Speaker 2: In the golf and the other one in the Medal destroyers.
[19:04] Speaker 4: Well, which one's in the med man.
[19:07] Speaker 2: I can't keep you.
[19:10] Speaker 5: I can't remember which, but.
[19:14] Speaker 4: Now I have to look it up. Gotta give, gotta
[19:17] Speaker 4: give fact factual information.
[19:19] Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and no, I mean listen, like there was
[19:22] Speaker 1: the j cpo A number, the first one you know
[19:25] Speaker 1: that kind of looked it seems like at least it
[19:27] Speaker 1: dealt with the erig geranium issue, you know, relatively well
[19:32] Speaker 1: in Israel and specifically bbing And yeahoo was dead set
[19:36] Speaker 1: against it like he was.
[19:38] Speaker 4: US is Gerald R. Ford. Sorry for interrupting me. Yeah,
[19:45] Speaker 4: ok yeah, no, no, nope, nope, nope, nope up subsequently left, Sorry,
[19:50] Speaker 4: I should have looked this up.
[19:51] Speaker 1: Part of this, So there's no the Ford. Isn't there
[19:56] Speaker 1: anymore left?
[19:57] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[19:58] Speaker 4: Okay, maybe it's getting replaced by the George Bush. They
[20:01] Speaker 4: haven't announced that, but there's an aircraft carrier Strike Group
[20:05] Speaker 4: and a lot of destroyers and a ton of aircraft there,
[20:10] Speaker 4: so it's quite possible. But to Andy's point, so Prime
[20:14] Speaker 4: Minister Natanya, who is coming to d C again, which
[20:18] Speaker 4: usually happens whatever he disagrees with what the US is
[20:22] Speaker 4: trying to do. And I do think they don't want
[20:25] Speaker 4: to see an agreement between the US and Iran. And
[20:29] Speaker 4: one thing to point out is if you're following the
[20:32] Speaker 4: national security strategy and national defense strategy, which obviously I
[20:36] Speaker 4: disagree with, but nobody's asking me, then it would make
[20:41] Speaker 4: sense to try to get to an agreement, a nuclear agreement,
[20:44] Speaker 4: so you can then focus on the Western hemisphere and
[20:46] Speaker 4: homeland defense.
[20:47] Speaker 2: What it actually says, yeah.
[20:49] Speaker 4: Yeah, like if you're going to follow your actual strategy,
[20:52] Speaker 4: then you won't want to deploy all the assets we're
[20:55] Speaker 4: talking about to the Middle East. It's it's counter to
[20:58] Speaker 4: your own strategy, right, So that leads a way to
[21:02] Speaker 4: get there.
[21:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, we need to keep control. Yeah, we needed them
[21:06] Speaker 1: off they close to Canada to keep those fuckers in line.
[21:09] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, but you're not wrong, I mean make right.
[21:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, that whole I mean, the whole thing is working,
[21:18] Speaker 1: worrying about our regional whatever, you know. And it's I
[21:23] Speaker 1: also read, uh that there's like one hundred plus like
[21:26] Speaker 1: support aircraft that have been flown over like ce seventeen's
[21:30] Speaker 1: to you know, refuelers and everything, like over a hundred.
[21:34] Speaker 1: So it's like, yeah, this doesn't really seem like the
[21:37] Speaker 1: National Defense strategy come to life.
[21:40] Speaker 4: Seems a little cowter to it.
[21:43] Speaker 3: Me we haven't really talked about a Turkey's role, you know,
[21:46] Speaker 3: I was. I mean, part of it, I think is
[21:51] Speaker 3: you can interpret as the fact that Odawan likes to
[21:53] Speaker 3: be seen as a global figure. I mean, that's another statement, right,
[21:58] Speaker 3: That's how he paints himself to his population.
[22:02] Speaker 5: He is.
[22:04] Speaker 3: Kind of the reverse at a Turk. At A Turk
[22:07] Speaker 3: took Turkey into the twentieth century and Urduwan wants to
[22:11] Speaker 3: take it back to Kin got him an empire and
[22:15] Speaker 3: in other ways too, But he does. You know, the
[22:19] Speaker 3: Turks are very nationalistic.
[22:21] Speaker 5: I mean, if you.
[22:24] Speaker 3: If you ever be into Turky'll dell with a military
[22:26] Speaker 3: or indeed, just waded through Twitter one day, you'll see
[22:31] Speaker 3: that there's a lot of.
[22:32] Speaker 5: Turkish nationalism around.
[22:35] Speaker 3: He has a strong base within Turkey, and he likes
[22:38] Speaker 3: to play to that bass by being a player on
[22:40] Speaker 3: the world stage. Yes, that's an element of it, but
[22:43] Speaker 3: there's pragmatic reasons too. I mean, Turkey has a five
[22:47] Speaker 3: hundred klometer border with Iran, so a war that involves
[22:51] Speaker 3: Iran is not going to do Turkey any good. And
[22:56] Speaker 3: if there is such a war, of course, Turkey's likely
[23:00] Speaker 3: to be first stop for any refugee flow out of Iran.
[23:05] Speaker 3: There's there's a good reason why Turkey two to oppose
[23:10] Speaker 3: an attack on Iran.
[23:12] Speaker 5: And but the other one is doing it in a
[23:13] Speaker 5: small way.
[23:14] Speaker 3: He's not simply getting on, you know, speaking to the
[23:18] Speaker 3: media and saying what a dumb idea it is. He's
[23:20] Speaker 3: reaching out to President Trump, which shows how he really
[23:24] Speaker 3: knows how to handle him. Uh. He lays on praise
[23:27] Speaker 3: and then he says, hey, let me, you know, let
[23:29] Speaker 3: me see what I can do on this. I think
[23:31] Speaker 3: I may be able to reach an agreement that you're
[23:33] Speaker 3: happy with.
[23:35] Speaker 1: Well, Ardawan has done it before, right with Trump. I
[23:37] Speaker 1: mean when we like bailed out on me, you know,
[23:42] Speaker 1: Kurds in Syria. I think it was Trump one right, yeah,
[23:48] Speaker 1: you know, and everybody shot, you know, and that was
[23:52] Speaker 1: it crazy. You know, it's over one phone call. Essentially.
[23:55] Speaker 1: It wasn't like a planning strategy as far as I know.
[23:58] Speaker 1: I mean, you were there, Mick, you know that was
[24:00] Speaker 1: your oh essentially.
[24:02] Speaker 4: So yeah, President Artawan said he could he would pick
[24:05] Speaker 4: up the fight against Isis if we pulled out and
[24:11] Speaker 4: left the Kurts on their own. That's why Secretary Matters resigned.
[24:14] Speaker 4: If you look back at the letter and you know
[24:18] Speaker 4: we're still there. We're still there many years later. It's
[24:21] Speaker 4: still an issue though. Quite frankly, this issue is can
[24:24] Speaker 4: back out with the US potentially leaving and really putting
[24:30] Speaker 4: a lot of pressure on the SDF to accept the
[24:33] Speaker 4: government in Damascus and integrate with it. So we'll see
[24:36] Speaker 4: how that goes. Was the other issue I talked about,
[24:39] Speaker 4: not really on the US media, This is the transfer
[24:42] Speaker 4: of prisoners out of Syria to Irock, because I think
[24:46] Speaker 4: the US is concerned about the instability of the relationship
[24:51] Speaker 4: and right now, the SDF has been guarding these seven
[24:55] Speaker 4: thousand prisoners for years, right, So yes, but President Erdawan
[25:03] Speaker 4: does have the year of President Trump for sure. I
[25:06] Speaker 4: think you're both right that he knows how to talk
[25:09] Speaker 4: to him. But most countries don't want to see an
[25:12] Speaker 4: actual conflict again, and they don't want to see Even
[25:16] Speaker 4: those that don't like the regime, I think probably have
[25:20] Speaker 4: a very pragmatic view of what could replace it. And
[25:22] Speaker 4: it's probably not a Nobel Peace Prize laureate. Right, it's
[25:27] Speaker 4: probably the strongest dude in ERGC that's left standing, and
[25:33] Speaker 4: it's been believe that the IGC leadership has been pro
[25:40] Speaker 4: acquiring a nuclear weapon and that it was actually the
[25:43] Speaker 4: Supreme Leader or is the Supreme Leader that has been
[25:46] Speaker 4: the hesitancy. So the question for a lot of the
[25:51] Speaker 4: individuals that are assessing what will come next is would
[25:54] Speaker 4: it be better or worse for the US perspective to
[25:57] Speaker 4: remove the current leadership? Which is important to point out.
[26:02] Speaker 4: I told is eighty six years old, so this could
[26:04] Speaker 4: happen tomorrow. I don't know his health, but without even
[26:10] Speaker 4: the US doing anything, So there's a lot of questions
[26:15] Speaker 4: I think for the US to decide if they're going
[26:19] Speaker 4: to ask for a maximalist, actual agreement, not just posturing
[26:22] Speaker 4: before the negotiations, then this will probably end up in
[26:26] Speaker 4: a military conflict again, because I also don't think politically
[26:30] Speaker 4: you can send all this to the Middle East and
[26:33] Speaker 4: then not get an agreement and then just turn around
[26:36] Speaker 4: and go home. Right, So we've kind of made the
[26:40] Speaker 4: choice by sending all this, then we're going to use
[26:43] Speaker 4: it if we don't get to an agreement, I think.
[26:47] Speaker 5: And McK brought up a good point to the.
[26:51] Speaker 3: Supreme Leader Omini, even though you know he's waxing lyrical across.
[26:56] Speaker 5: The airwaves about how he's going to punish the United States.
[27:01] Speaker 3: His bark has always proven far west than his bite.
[27:04] Speaker 3: And because and this isn't me praising the Spring leader,
[27:08] Speaker 3: but he is a pragmatist, He's a rationalist. He understands
[27:11] Speaker 3: the game. If he goes as midpointed, how we don't
[27:16] Speaker 3: know who comes next. So by you know, the Uranian constitution,
[27:20] Speaker 3: although I'm sure it's not referred to as that, there's
[27:23] Speaker 3: something called the Assembly of Experts, right, that's the first
[27:29] Speaker 3: time I've heard that term used outside this podcast. But
[27:33] Speaker 3: the Assembly, the Assembly of Experts are there are eighty
[27:37] Speaker 3: eight clerics, but they're controlled very tightly by guess who,
[27:42] Speaker 3: the IRGC, of course, you know. I mean we're beyond
[27:46] Speaker 3: the stage where Iran really is a pure theologist. See right,
[27:54] Speaker 3: that's not the right word.
[27:55] Speaker 5: What's the word I'm looking at?
[27:56] Speaker 4: Deocracy?
[27:58] Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to get fill a five for that too,
[28:02] Speaker 3: along with Brad Bradley Cooper. Yes, so we're beyond that stage.
[28:05] Speaker 3: I mean, the IRGC pretty much controls everything within the country.
[28:09] Speaker 3: It's an immensely powerful organization and it's not renowned for
[28:14] Speaker 3: its middle of the road moderate views. So again, taking
[28:20] Speaker 3: out Romani might not be the best thing to do,
[28:23] Speaker 3: even if that's even on the table, but also something
[28:28] Speaker 3: not to look forward to us when he does actually
[28:30] Speaker 3: pass of natural causes.
[28:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, what comes next?
[28:37] Speaker 6: Yikes?
[28:38] Speaker 1: I mean, I got a question because I'm sure some
[28:40] Speaker 1: people are going to be wondering, what where do you
[28:43] Speaker 1: guys mentioned like you know, Erdawan and his uh, what
[28:48] Speaker 1: he was doing was a pain in the ass for
[28:50] Speaker 1: you guys. Are you guys referring to Syria?
[28:54] Speaker 4: That was constant and in northern Iraq beginning was also
[29:00] Speaker 4: a big headache. We went in there early before the
[29:05] Speaker 4: war and then we got Yeah, I mean it's very
[29:11] Speaker 4: popular among US Special operations forces are the agents in put.
[29:14] Speaker 2: It that way.
[29:16] Speaker 3: Yeah, the Turks had guys in northern Iraq in twenty fifteen,
[29:20] Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, and with good intent to begin with the
[29:25] Speaker 3: block ISIS, but they weren't there at the request of
[29:28] Speaker 3: the Iranian I mean sorry, the Iraqi government, and they
[29:32] Speaker 3: were very problematic for US, and of course in Syria
[29:36] Speaker 3: on a number of occasions, but even on small things
[29:39] Speaker 3: like using their using their jam as to block our GPS,
[29:45] Speaker 3: and you know, during key points of the campaign against ISIS.
[29:50] Speaker 4: They sent in their special operations with US when we
[29:52] Speaker 4: first went into northern Iraq and they want to follow
[29:55] Speaker 4: us around, but we eventually gave them our xbox I
[29:58] Speaker 4: think it was an xbox and then they didn't want
[30:00] Speaker 4: to follows around anymore.
[30:02] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like, was that on purpose, Mick, you
[30:06] Speaker 2: guys want to get it of.
[30:07] Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, yes, and it worked. They were like, yeah,
[30:11] Speaker 4: we don't care so much anymore, which you guys.
[30:12] Speaker 1: Yeah, So just to give people some context of Siria
[30:15] Speaker 1: as like such an absolute clusterfuck or I mean it
[30:17] Speaker 1: still is, but it was really bad. You know, the
[30:20] Speaker 1: Turks hate the Kords, right, everybody hates Isis essentially, even
[30:24] Speaker 1: the Iranians, even the Arcada groups hate ISIS. But you know,
[30:29] Speaker 1: the Turks were supposedly with us, they would you know,
[30:32] Speaker 1: the Russians hated Isis supposedly too, but they were backing aside.
[30:35] Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not doing a good job of it
[30:37] Speaker 1: because it could be an entire episode in and of itself,
[30:40] Speaker 1: but like it was such an absolute as like just
[30:43] Speaker 1: a confluence of like differing interests and stuff like that
[30:46] Speaker 1: that Syria, Like somebody needs to write a fucking a
[30:49] Speaker 1: book about it because it's insane.
[30:53] Speaker 3: Yeah, are you know, the bottom line of our biggest
[30:56] Speaker 3: problem to Turks, it's always centered on the Kurdish piece.
[31:00] Speaker 3: You know, you can you can view it from a
[31:02] Speaker 3: Turkish point of view that we did s the SDF.
[31:05] Speaker 3: The SDF in practice covered quite a wide spectrum of
[31:10] Speaker 3: of Kurdish groups. And I'm not just talking about the SDF.
[31:12] Speaker 3: I'm talking about groups, you know.
[31:15] Speaker 5: That that were.
[31:18] Speaker 3: Aligned with the US government at the time, a foreign
[31:21] Speaker 3: policy interests aligned right defeat a mysis. But my point
[31:26] Speaker 3: is this that that there were undoubtedly people within the
[31:30] Speaker 3: groups that we supported who had previously taken action against Turkey.
[31:34] Speaker 3: It's just you'd be unrealistic to to think anything otherwise.
[31:40] Speaker 3: So that you know, I'm not I'm not justifying what
[31:42] Speaker 3: the Turk's done. There've been a total pin in the
[31:44] Speaker 3: ass question and and and by the way, you know,
[31:48] Speaker 3: the way they treat the Kurds and have treated the
[31:51] Speaker 3: Kurds in the past is pretty their thing Abysmo too.
[31:55] Speaker 5: So no, this isn't a pro Turkish argument.
[31:57] Speaker 3: I'm just saying from their point of view, we have
[32:00] Speaker 3: They will tell you that we have back to terrorist organization.
[32:03] Speaker 3: They're talking specifically about the p k K and we
[32:07] Speaker 3: have backed them and funneled arms into them, which we
[32:10] Speaker 3: have not done directly or by intent, but it may
[32:12] Speaker 3: well have been that personnel and equipment crossed that thin
[32:16] Speaker 3: membranst line between the multitude of Kurdish groups. Do you
[32:20] Speaker 3: like that that fell under the SDF.
[32:22] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but they were they were.
[32:28] Speaker 3: Sorry the fact Arab militias in Syria, and no doubt
[32:34] Speaker 3: about it, with instructions to go up against and fight
[32:37] Speaker 3: the SDF and drive them back to creating a buffer.
[32:41] Speaker 3: But it was at first the Turks justified this in
[32:44] Speaker 3: terms of creating a buffer, but then it became clear
[32:47] Speaker 3: that they were after the annihilation of the SDF. There's
[32:50] Speaker 3: no doubt about it. They don't want the SDF still
[32:52] Speaker 3: in existence. And as we talked about on the show,
[32:56] Speaker 3: Mick and I and many others know what the SDF
[32:59] Speaker 3: has done to us. It's enabled us to win almost bloodlessly.
[33:05] Speaker 3: And people are going to quibble with me, but minimal casualties.
[33:08] Speaker 3: One of the most important campaigns of the last fifty
[33:12] Speaker 3: sixty years, and that was the fight against the Islamic State.
[33:16] Speaker 5: And I say one of that's probably an understatement. I
[33:18] Speaker 5: can't think of another.
[33:19] Speaker 4: You're here totally agree in one of our positions of
[33:23] Speaker 4: all and by the way, they said the same thing
[33:24] Speaker 4: about the Iraqi Kurds. It's a common refrain. Our argument
[33:29] Speaker 4: has always been collectively, so it would be better for
[33:34] Speaker 4: us not to be with them, because if we're with them,
[33:38] Speaker 4: I mean, I don't buy that all these obviously I'm
[33:41] Speaker 4: pro Kurdish, but if you believed what they Turk said,
[33:46] Speaker 4: then our presence would mitigate any threat from them because
[33:51] Speaker 4: we're there, right, We're with them. So it never really
[33:55] Speaker 4: especially in the Pentagon where it's pretty universal, is how
[33:59] Speaker 4: they view those two groups. It never really held a
[34:03] Speaker 4: lot of wait for us because we were like, look,
[34:05] Speaker 4: if we're with them and we're providing the weapons and
[34:08] Speaker 4: we know how they're using them because we're with them,
[34:11] Speaker 4: how was that so you think you could be better
[34:13] Speaker 4: off for us to leave? So and and again, to
[34:17] Speaker 4: Andy's point, the SDF did ninety nine percent of the
[34:21] Speaker 4: fighting at Dianes to beat the Islamic State and take
[34:24] Speaker 4: and destroy the Caliphate. But they call it galat so
[34:28] Speaker 4: called calph and that's gonna be good. That's gonna go
[34:31] Speaker 4: down in the legions of special operations in their regular warfare.
[34:36] Speaker 3: Just is.
[34:39] Speaker 1: Also like like you guys you mentioned Andy like Erdawan
[34:43] Speaker 1: and the Turks you know, complaining that like we were
[34:45] Speaker 1: supporting the SDF, which was you know YPG and the
[34:48] Speaker 1: p k K we're part of. I mean, he's not.
[34:53] Speaker 1: He wasn't and Turkey wasn't supporting fucking al Nistra or
[34:57] Speaker 1: like uh Jilani's old al fit or what you know.
[35:01] Speaker 1: H It's like, what are we what are we talking
[35:03] Speaker 1: about here?
[35:04] Speaker 5: Certainly, certainly the Turks back to Aljelani.
[35:08] Speaker 3: They deny having backed als Nosrop, but certainly they openly
[35:13] Speaker 3: and were supporting in Algelani.
[35:15] Speaker 5: And I mean, at the end of the.
[35:17] Speaker 3: Day, one had a good argument for doing so, frankly,
[35:21] Speaker 3: a good pragmatic argument.
[35:22] Speaker 5: He brought the war to an end. There's no doubt
[35:25] Speaker 5: about it.
[35:25] Speaker 3: That was the only group that reasonably could be expected
[35:30] Speaker 3: to do it, and the Turks backed it. They were
[35:32] Speaker 3: in the right place. I mean, you know, give give
[35:35] Speaker 3: the Turks credit where they do. I mean, we've blundered
[35:37] Speaker 3: round in the least backing the wrong groups every time.
[35:42] Speaker 3: Wan by Lackhorn by design chose the right group. Okay,
[35:45] Speaker 3: I'm not that's not an ethical comment about Algelani and
[35:51] Speaker 3: as bandomary men. It's a comment about the fact that
[35:54] Speaker 3: it was the one group that was in position, postured
[35:57] Speaker 3: and could overthrow the Syrian regime given some backing. So
[36:02] Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, it was successful, vastly successful the Turks.
[36:07] Speaker 3: It was a blow to the Iranians, a blow to
[36:08] Speaker 3: the Russians, and a threat to some extent to some
[36:13] Speaker 3: of our own interests in the region, as we talked about,
[36:15] Speaker 3: represented by the SDF, who are kind of our conduit
[36:21] Speaker 3: to intelligence and also to potential proxy action against the
[36:25] Speaker 3: Alamic state in Consyria. But you know, back to the Turks,
[36:31] Speaker 3: they see those Kurdish armed groups, they see the SDF
[36:35] Speaker 3: on its borders as an existential threat, that's no exaggeration,
[36:40] Speaker 3: and they view the SDF and they always will view
[36:44] Speaker 3: any Kurdish groups, although the SDF are not exclusively Kurdish,
[36:48] Speaker 3: as we talked about here, but they view them through
[36:50] Speaker 3: the lens of the PKK insurgency which continues inside Turkey,
[36:57] Speaker 3: and in.
[36:57] Speaker 4: A lot of ways, that's just a bugy man, if
[36:59] Speaker 4: you think about it, how big is the Turkish military
[37:01] Speaker 4: they're really that concerned about, you know, invasion by the SDF.
[37:06] Speaker 4: I mean, come on, it's more like if I need
[37:09] Speaker 4: to have a distraction from my own issues with how
[37:13] Speaker 4: you know, he's handling Turkey and the economy, then it's
[37:16] Speaker 4: the Kurds are always the boogeyman, right, We're on the
[37:19] Speaker 4: verge of It's just.
[37:21] Speaker 1: It's like a quick way to like spar like nationalism
[37:24] Speaker 1: up of you know, so they have to worry about
[37:27] Speaker 1: thirty percent of inflation.
[37:29] Speaker 3: But there is there's something I agree with all of that,
[37:32] Speaker 3: and I'm not saying that the trust me. I'm a
[37:36] Speaker 3: I'm a Kodish fan through and through. I've spent you know,
[37:40] Speaker 3: I spend the deployment in twenty sixteen and the Autonomous
[37:44] Speaker 3: Region of Kurdistan backing the Posh Murger against the Islamic States.
[37:48] Speaker 5: So I'm invested in it. I've written about it.
[37:50] Speaker 3: I was very dismayed at you I talks about US
[37:53] Speaker 3: forces pulling out of Syria for all of these reasons.
[37:56] Speaker 5: But back to the Teks.
[37:58] Speaker 3: So the main stay of Kurdish presence in the SDF
[38:01] Speaker 3: is an organization called the YEPG, and the Turks see
[38:05] Speaker 3: the PKK and the YEPG as being synonymous.
[38:09] Speaker 5: They're not. But as I've said this. Typically there's a
[38:12] Speaker 5: shaded area in the vent diagram.
[38:13] Speaker 3: Of course there is because all groups up there, especially
[38:16] Speaker 3: all Turkish groups, have to coordinate and collaborate to some extent,
[38:21] Speaker 3: even groups that hate one another.
[38:23] Speaker 4: Yeah, so true. Well, I'm in a house. It's very
[38:26] Speaker 4: pro courde should. We got a lot of former Delta
[38:29] Speaker 4: folks in here right now, and they did a lot
[38:32] Speaker 4: of the heavy lifting out there. So it's just it's
[38:37] Speaker 4: something that we should recognize. Its casts to do with
[38:39] Speaker 4: the way the US treats partners and allies. Shouldn't be disposable,
[38:44] Speaker 4: shouldn't be transactional all the time. That's the way it
[38:48] Speaker 4: is oftentimes in the Middle East especially, But I think
[38:51] Speaker 4: the US should should honor its partners and allies.
[38:57] Speaker 2: And a different I got a question, how do you
[39:00] Speaker 2: think the.
[39:02] Speaker 1: Now like twenty twenty six, how do how do the
[39:05] Speaker 1: Kurds feel about the US now?
[39:10] Speaker 4: It's hard, Yes, theF Kurds are, they're they feel a
[39:16] Speaker 4: bit portrayed. I know they are, because they're talent me, right,
[39:18] Speaker 4: I know, I know them and they're texting me and
[39:21] Speaker 4: they feel a bit betrayed. But they also you know,
[39:26] Speaker 4: they they have endured a lot as a as a people.
[39:31] Speaker 4: So they will persevere, they will succeed, I think. But
[39:35] Speaker 4: they I think they have rightful concerns about the loyalty
[39:42] Speaker 4: of the US government, not the people they work with
[39:45] Speaker 4: in the military and agency who they have lifelong friends with, but.
[39:51] Speaker 2: But high level policy, right.
[39:54] Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so yeah, a lot of you feel portrayed
[39:57] Speaker 4: right now, put it that way, especially in the Syrian court.
[40:00] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[40:00] Speaker 3: For the SDF, I mean, they want to hold on
[40:03] Speaker 3: to the territory they have in Syria as an autonomous region,
[40:07] Speaker 3: in the same way as the Kurts in northern Iraq
[40:10] Speaker 3: have an autonomous region. They want continued US protection and
[40:16] Speaker 3: specifically guarantees against Turkish attacks, you know, which all of
[40:20] Speaker 3: which seems quite reasonable, right, But the problem is the
[40:26] Speaker 3: fear that I think a lot of us have, I have,
[40:29] Speaker 3: if I can speak for other people, is that as
[40:31] Speaker 3: Urduwan creeps his way into US good graces, that there's
[40:37] Speaker 3: going to be a price to it. And the price
[40:39] Speaker 3: he's going to ask for what is he what does
[40:40] Speaker 3: he want above all else from the US?
[40:42] Speaker 5: He wants us to.
[40:43] Speaker 3: Just say, hey, you take Syria, you do what you
[40:47] Speaker 3: want there to include against the SDF that's that's really
[40:51] Speaker 3: I would argue what one wants beyond the regional stability
[40:57] Speaker 3: that will play in his favor.
[40:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I guess and serious, so fucking insanely
[41:02] Speaker 1: intriguing the interests that are going on in there.
[41:07] Speaker 2: It still is.
[41:07] Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, you know, we'll see if the guy
[41:10] Speaker 1: if Australa wants to be a George Washington or he
[41:13] Speaker 1: wants to be Napoleon.
[41:16] Speaker 3: Right, yeah, I mean, you know, the bottom line is
[41:19] Speaker 3: Washington can never, can never satisfy Anchoror and the Kurds
[41:24] Speaker 3: at the same time, right, I mean it, So it's
[41:29] Speaker 3: a line that that US administration's not just this one
[41:33] Speaker 3: will always have to walk. But for all the reasons
[41:36] Speaker 3: that we have given, I mean, there are ways to
[41:38] Speaker 3: keep Turkey on site. They need us to other than
[41:42] Speaker 3: through the Kurds, And there are plenty of reasons, not
[41:45] Speaker 3: just emotional, in fact the minority of them emotional, pragmatic,
[41:52] Speaker 3: and then things that have to do with the values
[41:54] Speaker 3: of this country that to throw up our partners as
[41:58] Speaker 3: long as soon as they cease to be used fault
[42:00] Speaker 3: to us. It's not a good precedent from when we
[42:04] Speaker 3: need punts. Again, it's undoubtedly we will in future conflicts.
[42:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all I got, guys, You guys have anything else?
[42:15] Speaker 2: I want to wrap this up, you know.
[42:20] Speaker 5: Yeah, No, that was that was not I like this.
[42:22] Speaker 5: I like this new time. That's so it's an old time.
[42:25] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[42:26] Speaker 1: Well now, yeah, you're back in the Eastern Seaboard. Well
[42:29] Speaker 1: you're not really, but sort of. Anyway, I want you
[42:33] Speaker 1: guys to do me a favor. I want you guys
[42:35] Speaker 1: to check out mixed new podcast to pub in the
[42:37] Speaker 1: Porch Applied Stoicism. That links in the description the Whitefish
[42:42] Speaker 1: Security Conference. Sorry make I keep forgetting the name, but
[42:44] Speaker 1: it's April second to the fourth.
[42:46] Speaker 4: Go ahead, yeah, so right now it's called the Montana
[42:49] Speaker 4: Intelligence Summit, and it's going to switch the white Fish
[42:51] Speaker 4: Security Summit.
[42:52] Speaker 2: That's why you're there, you go. Yeah, but that link
[42:55] Speaker 2: is in the description as well. And a ton of people.
[42:58] Speaker 1: If you see the list of people who are talking
[43:00] Speaker 1: at it, it's you know, Admiral Bill mccraven and and
[43:03] Speaker 1: a lot more folks. So Andy Milburn, Crystal, Sorry, I
[43:09] Speaker 1: stand Crystal.
[43:10] Speaker 4: I love We love to get mccraven next year.
[43:12] Speaker 2: So yeah, that's that's someone to hope for.
[43:17] Speaker 1: You.
[43:17] Speaker 2: Said it. I had to say it. You know you
[43:19] Speaker 2: said it.
[43:21] Speaker 5: I know.
[43:22] Speaker 1: That's why it's okay, uh Andy Milburn when the Tempest gathers.
[43:27] Speaker 1: That links in the description, as well as his great
[43:30] Speaker 1: new article on the War in the Rocks. That link
[43:34] Speaker 1: is also in the description. And patreon dot com slash
[43:37] Speaker 1: the Teamhouse. You get eyes On and Teamhouse episodes at
[43:40] Speaker 1: free and early and you help sport the show.
[43:43] Speaker 2: All right, I'm out of breath. Thanks, guys.
[43:45] Speaker 7: All right, Phyllis, Okay, guys, I want to tell all
[43:50] Speaker 7: of you today about a new newsletter that we're launching
[43:53] Speaker 7: that encompasses both the Team House podcast, the eyes On podcast,
[43:57] Speaker 7: and the high Side News out which I run with
[44:01] Speaker 7: Sean Naylor.
[44:02] Speaker 6: The newsletter is gonna be once a week. It's gonna
[44:06] Speaker 6: come into your inbox and you're gonna get the most
[44:08] Speaker 6: current podcasts on eyes On, in the Teamhouse, and whatever's
[44:13] Speaker 6: topical or current on the high Side. So it's another
[44:16] Speaker 6: way for us to get the information out to you
[44:19] Speaker 6: as social media algorithms are pretty iffy and you never
[44:22] Speaker 6: really know.
[44:22] Speaker 2: What you're gonna get.
[44:24] Speaker 6: So this is a once a week email. It'll slide
[44:26] Speaker 6: into your inbox and it will have you know the
[44:28] Speaker 6: greatest hits of that week.
[44:30] Speaker 4: It's really good.
[44:31] Speaker 5: Checking it out.
[44:33] Speaker 6: The website for it is Teamhouse Podcast, dot kit dot com,
[44:37] Speaker 6: slash Join Teamhouse Podcast dot kit dot com slash Join.
[44:43] Speaker 6: You go there and you enter into your email list
[44:45] Speaker 6: or you enter your email into the little thing on
[44:49] Speaker 6: the website and you're good to go.
[44:51] Speaker 2: And that'll be it.
[44:52] Speaker 6: So we really appreciate your support and hope you'll consider
[44:55] Speaker 6: signing up.
[44:56] Speaker 5: Where's the link.
[44:58] Speaker 6: The link will also be down in the description if
[45:00] Speaker 6: you're looking for it there, and that's Teamhouse Podcast, dot Kit,
[45:04] Speaker 6: k I, t Kilo India, Tango dot com, backslash Join,
[46:00] Speaker 6: Yah

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