# #286: Core Values

An episode of [A Beautiful Mess Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1485472892), 9 Feb 2026, 40 min.

Audio: https://mgln.ai/e/498/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.libsyn.com/secure/abmpodcast/ABM_EP286_Final.mp3?dest-id=1624655

This week we are discussing core values. We'll share our results from the Values Bridge quiz, as well as our thoughts on how defining core values can improve your life. And in our hot take debate, we're discussing separating art from the artist and rounding it out with whether or not we refrigerate our butter. All the important things that you need to know. Thank you to this week's sponsor: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com/abm https://thevaluesbridge.com/ You can support us by leaving us a couple of 5 star recipe reviews this week at abeautifulmess.com Have a topic idea for the podcast? Write in to us at podcast@abeautifulmess.com or leave us a voicemail at 417-893-0011.

## Transcript

[0:00] Emma
[0:01] You're listening to the Beautiful Mess podcast, your cozy comfort listen. And this week, we are
[0:02] discussing core values. We'll share our results from the values bridge quiz, as well as our thoughts on
[0:03] how defining core values can improve your life. And in our hot take debate, we're discussing separating
[0:04] art from the artist and rounding it out with whether or not we refrigerate our butter, all the important
[0:05] things that you need to know.
[0:06] Elsie
[0:07] But before we jump in, Emma bought us matching Verity hats from from Colleenhoover.com, I believe is
[0:08] this true. I've been researching best gift I've gotten author websites.
[0:09] Emma
[0:10] I mean, I like to visit author websites anyway, just to, like, check out news or things that they do, yeah.
[0:11] But I'm also trying to make my own author website. It's probably gonna be up by the time you're
[0:12] listening to this. Anyway, though I was on Colleen Hoover's website, and I was like, she has merch,
[0:13] click, click, click. And I was like, Oh, I have to get Elsie. And I these matching Verity hats because she
[0:14] read Verity first. And she was like, you have to read it. It's crazy. And now we're both, like, anticipating
[0:15] the movie coming out. We cannot wait. When you told me it was Anne Hathaway, I was like, oh my god.
[0:16] Elsie
[0:17] I love Anne Hathaway. I love Josh Hartnett. I love Dakota Johns. Yeah, I think they've made I'm just
[0:18] gonna call it that. It's going to be a millennial masterpiece. So excited. I am 10 out of 10 excited. And
[0:19] also, we have low key tricked our husbands into not really knowing what kind of movie it's gonna be in.
[0:20] They're gonna go watch it with us.
[0:21] Emma
[0:22] Yeah, so it's perfect. My husband thinks it's gonna be like, Gone Girl. And I'm like, Yeah, sort of, I don't
[0:23] know. Oh, my god, yeah, that's fine. Just let him think that. Yeah, no, he likes thrillers. I think you'll like
[0:24] it. I don't know it's gonna be wild and fun, and I like that. We have matching hats.
[0:25] Elsie
[0:26] Yeah, it brings me a lot of joy. I'm gonna wear it all summer at the pool.
[0:27] Emma
[0:28] I can't wait to hear everyone will talk to me, because that's what my life is like. And so I will know every
[0:29] old lady who's read Verity, because she will talk to me when she sees my hat. So, yeah, hello. Yes, me
[0:30] too. We're in the same club.
[0:31] Elsie
[0:32] Yeah, I don't know. I hope the movie's fun. The book was so unhinged in all the right places, I thought it
[0:33] was like days of our lives in a good way, like I grew up watching Days of Our Lives in my grandfather's
[0:34] furniture store and just all of that kind of vibe they I just don't see that guy. I don't read a lot of thrillers at
[0:35] all. So I, I was charmed by Verity. I thought it was funny. And I think it's also funny. How many people
[0:36] hate it, like, I just think it's all around a fun novelty experience, and I'm gonna wear the hat a lot.
[0:37] Emma
[0:38] Well you were like, you won't be able to put this book down, and also it's just insane. And I was like,
[0:39] okay, and you were correct. So whether you love it or hate it, it is a page turner. Oh yeah.
[0:40] Elsie
[0:41] Okay. So this week we're talking about core values. I love this subject. So someone on Instagram sent
[0:42] me the I think, no, I use my newsletter. It was either the newsletter or Instagram, but someone sent me
[0:43] this values bridge quiz. So it's called the values bridge.com right? I believe so. So I did link it in my last
[0:44] newsletter. But if you have not taken the quiz, I highly recommend it. And I will say, because with
[0:45] quizzes like these, sometimes they try to make you pay at the end and all of that this quiz, you do have
[0:46] to enter your email to get the result. Just do it. It's worth it, and you can unsubscribe later if you don't
[0:47] want it. I actually haven't gotten, I don't think I've gotten any emails from them. I think I got one initial
[0:48] one, okay, and then I haven't seen another one since then. So it's worth it. Yeah, I don't really, um, I
[0:49] thought it was a very interesting quiz. I did it on a Saturday morning, and then I immediately made my
[0:50] husband do it, and it turned out that he had the same top two values as I had, and then so it gives you
[0:51] your four top four values. So our lower two of each of us were different, but our top two were the same.
[0:52] And I thought that said a lot about why we're compatible. Yeah, like it made it all make sense to me in a
[0:53] way that I hadn't, hadn't expected before. And we're also both Scorpios, and we're also both INFJs, but
[0:54] we're actually not very alike, like, personality wise.
[0:55] Emma
[0:56] Yeah, it's interesting. It's weird, right? Yeah, you guys are kind of weird. Yeah, I've always said that.
[0:57] Elsie
[0:58] No. Anyway, what did you think your values would be like before you took the quiz? When you just
[0:59] know, because I had tried to do this before. My friend had been like, just look up a list of values and
[1:00] then just pick out which ones are your top values. And I had kind of listened to other people talk about
[1:01] it, and I kind of tried to do it, but I had a hard time picking the top ones, because it just felt like there
[1:02] were so many important things on the list.
[1:03] Emma
[1:04] Yeah, I think just looking at a list of values that's difficult, because it's almost like it forces you to say no
[1:05] to things that are good, yeah, but they might not be your values, and saying no to them doesn't mean
[1:06] that you think they're bad, but you can't value everything that would be impossible, so some things are
[1:07] going to rise to rise to the list. So, yeah, I think a quiz is more helpful rather than looking but I don't
[1:08] know you do whatever you want, but what were your top ones? Okay? Because I actually don't even
[1:09] know. We haven't really talked about this.
[1:10] Elsie
[1:11] Yeah, I'm excited to read it. I have them written in my notes app. So what I thought mine would be is
[1:12] career and, like, beauty and esthetics. I knew it would be something like that. And then I thought maybe
[1:13] something was like propulsion and goals, like, something about, like, sort of like motivation. And, you
[1:14] know, because I don't, I don't really like to be bored. So that was my predictions. And I was kind of
[1:15] nailing it. So here are my Oh, and I knew, I also knew what mine wouldn't be. And this is a little weird.
[1:16] This is a little weird talk about, but I think this is kind of what's interesting about it is that when you have
[1:17] things that are lower on the list, it doesn't mean they're unimportant to you. It just means it's not one of
[1:18] your core values. Yeah? You know what I mean? Like, there are many things in life. So I knew that my
[1:19] romantic partner would not be the center of my universe, yeah. And the reason I knew that is because
[1:20] when I was in my 20s, I dated a couple of people who I felt like, wanted to make me the center of their
[1:21] universe, and I hated it, yeah, like, I was I just, like, had this, like, immediately, no reaction to it. And I,
[1:22] like, I didn't know that about myself until I experienced it, but then it was, like, very strong. And it was
[1:23] like, I actually don't like that, and I also don't want that kind of pressure on me to make my partner the
[1:24] center of my universe. And the same thing with parenting, I knew that. I knew that being a mom was not
[1:25] a big is not a big part of my identity, and it never has been, even in the years when we first adopted,
[1:26] when I I did feel like it was like a my Social Media identity for a little while, because I was like posting
[1:27] about adoption and the kids, and for a little while that felt like it was important or worth it to me, and
[1:28] then I changed my mind, but, yeah, but I never felt like in my soul, like being a mom was like, I don't
[1:29] know. I guess it feels wrong to say that, because being a mom is so important to me, but I knew that it
[1:30] wasn't. I knew that I wasn't going to be one of those people who, when my kids moved out, I didn't
[1:31] know what to do. Yeah? Like, I knew I was always going to know what to do.
[1:32] Emma
[1:33] I mean, it's similar to saying, you know, your romantic partner isn't the center of your universe. I don't
[1:34] feel like you saying that makes me feel like you don't like Jeremy, yeah, and you're not happy in your
[1:35] marriage. Like, no, I just think you're like, Oh, that's not the thing that I like making a ton of goals
[1:36] around, and that I think about constantly, and that I shape my life around. It's like, he's my family, he's
[1:37] my partner. But, you know, there you go. Like, I don't know, that's fine. I think a lot of people feel that
[1:38] way about their kids, and then the world kind of sometimes, especially women, makes them feel like,
[1:39] no, they should be the whole thing. That's it. You're a mom. That's your whole identity now. And it's like,
[1:40] well, you might not feel that way, and that is fine, yeah? Because we don't usually say that to men, so I
[1:41] don't know why we do to women. So you know, yeah, bit of a double standard.
[1:42] Elsie
[1:43] Yeah. Okay, so here is what the quiz gave me, number one, and it gives you like this authenticity gap,
[1:44] which means like, how close. So there's a part of the quiz where you're putting like your ideal life, and
[1:45] there's a part of the quiz where you're answering questions about your real everyday life right now and
[1:46] so on. These first two, the difference between my ideal life and my real life are exactly the same.
[1:47] They're like the there is no gap, which is cool. So my first one is work centrism, which means it says it's
[1:48] deeper than I love work. It is more like working makes me feel like myself and working shapes my life.
[1:49] And I do identify that as true. I think when I was growing up, I did not expect to be that kind of person.
[1:50] It's not how I was, like taught to be. It's it is how I was born. It's like something inside of me that, no, we
[1:51] were not taught to be workaholics. Definitely not. It wasn't a big, yeah, in our family, I don't even
[1:52] consider myself a workaholic. I feel like, because I feel like that's like a negative thing of like, saying you
[1:53] have, like, an addiction. I don't think I have an addiction. I think I have, like, a deep love for it. You know
[1:54] what I mean? Like, I can take the day off. Yeah? You know what I mean? Mean, like, I do take
[1:55] Christmas week off, like, it's, yeah, okay, my second one was achievement, and it means you're fueled
[1:56] by the pursuit of excellence, or the pursuit of, like, a specific, you know, financial or recognition
[1:57] achievement. So it can be like, I want this job. It can be like, I want this award. I want people to see me
[1:58] in this way, you know, something like that, or it can just be I want to know that I'm the best I can be at
[1:59] what I'm doing, which is something that I feel very deeply. I want to be the best at what I'm trying to do.
[2:00] And then my third one is called beholderism, which I thought was kind of a fun word, and it's basically
[2:01] an is it asks as the esthete esthete esthetic, as it's like a person who is an esthetic has an esthetic
[2:02] mind, yeah. Okay, so it's a yearning to be immersed in sensor experiences art and beauty, I knew I was
[2:03] going to have something like that because the idea of my physical surroundings reflecting my inner
[2:04] world has been important to me since childhood, and even like in childhood, in high school, I
[2:05] redecorated my room constantly. So I knew that there was going to be something there to do with that.
[2:06] And there's no surprise there, like and, and I think it's good that in this test it try it like, specifically tries
[2:07] to say like, it doesn't mean you're like, shallow it, you know what I mean? Because I feel like there is,
[2:08] there's definitely judgment around like people who want everything to be beautiful, like that can be seen
[2:09] as a shallow quality.
[2:10] Emma
[2:11] Unless you're staying at their house and you're just like, so happy while you're there, then all of a
[2:12] sudden, you're like, Wait a second. Yeah. I like this. Yeah.
[2:13] Elsie
[2:14] I think if you would hold judgment and you just let it be something that is important internally. Then it
[2:15] makes it makes perfect sense, like I just I love beautiful things. And then my fourth one is called scope,
[2:16] which is basically the same thing as being the Enneagram seven, which is what I am. It means I want a
[2:17] big life. I want to try everything, if I see some, if I see a hobby or a book or I will just start reading it that
[2:18] day. Like always, I'm just a grabber of life. I'm grabber of experiences. And that's always been true, too.
[2:19] Do you think those like seem right?
[2:20] Emma
[2:21] Yeah, yeah.
[2:22] Elsie
[2:23] Okay, so I want to hear yours.
[2:24] Emma
[2:25] That makes sense to me. Mine were. I just took screenshots. My number one is the same as yours,
[2:26] which was work centrism, which was not surprising at all, because if you had asked me, What's your
[2:27] number one, I'd be like, it's gonna be something about career. Or, I think for me, though, because you
[2:28] had one, what was your third one? Or second one had to do with kind of achievement? Yeah,
[2:29] achieving. I don't have that one on my list because I actually don't think mine has to do. I'm just an
[2:30] extremely insular person, so I kind of, like, I could be on a desert island there's no other human being
[2:31] around, and I would still be working quote on I would still be, like, making stuff that means something to
[2:32] me, like, and there's really no chance of recognition or achievement that others see, and I would still do
[2:33] something, because that's, yeah, it's just something built in me. So she has a little factory inside that
[2:34] brain, yeah, and it just is gonna keep going till I die. And then my second one was place. Oh,
[2:35] interesting. Tell me about that. Yeah. So I didn't like, I feel like you have, like, the description of each
[2:36] one, but for me, especially as I was taking the quiz, it was very much like, Oh, I'm living exactly where I
[2:37] want to be living, and I don't want to move. I would have thought to put this on my list of values. But
[2:38] anytime my husband has brought up moving, or even, like, doing an extended time in another area. I'm
[2:39] always kind of like, I don't want to do that. Like, my immediate reaction on the inside is, I don't want to
[2:40] do that. I want to be right here. So I'll also say I know that my values have changed over the course of
[2:41] my life. Yeah, and they'll probably change again, and I'm super open to that too, because, like, I loved
[2:42] moving to LA when I did, and I think that was the perfect thing for me to do at that age, and I have no
[2:43] regrets about it. You were so brave. It was so much fun. And I kind of could see me moving again
[2:44] someday. But I think right now, for what I'm doing in my life, it feels really important to me to live in
[2:45] Springfield, Missouri, where I live. My whole family's here, the cost of living is very low. So that gives
[2:46] me a lot of flexibility in a bunch of ways. And I think, too, I just feel a lot of comfort feeling like I can
[2:47] navigate my area very easily. Like, you know, whenever you move to like a foreign country, you don't
[2:48] speak the language as well, or maybe at all. That's a whole thing. Like, I don't want to do any of that.
[2:49] I'm again. An era where I'm like, No, I really want to be exactly where I am. And I really, like, I don't
[2:50] even want to move out of my house. I really want to live in my house until it feels like we can't navigate
[2:51] stairs as easily anymore, like, so probably, like, mid to late 16 time. Yeah. Anyway, so place is my
[2:52] second one. My third one is family centrism. I think in some ways, I was born to, like, want to be a
[2:53] mom, and I have that thing in me. So there you go.
[2:54] Elsie
[2:55] I can see that, like, for example, yesterday Emma, or the day before yesterday, the day before Emma
[2:56] took lunch to both my kids at school. She does that kind of thing all the time. She really is, like, the
[2:57] ultimate aunt. And she does, like, put her family at the tippy top of her priority list.
[2:58] Emma
[2:59] Yeah, our grandma Norma is like that too, who we always talk about. And I get it like, I feel like there's
[3:00] some things about her that I don't get Yeah, and but that one, I'm like, yep, same Grandma, I see you. I
[3:01] feel exactly like you. There's just something in me that's like, this is a part of my life. I see my family. I
[3:02] hang out with my family. I do things with my family. It's not even that important to me what we're doing.
[3:03] I'm more interested in, like, what are you want to play checkers or grandma? You want to go tier that
[3:04] you know, like, I just family's definitely always been big on my list, but I think in this era, it's like, even
[3:05] bigger, in part because my I have kids now, so anyway, and then my fourth one was also beholderism,
[3:06] which that one actually was the one that surprised me, because I do love beautiful things, but I think
[3:07] growing up being your sister like you really love beautiful things, and you do. It's not a competition, but
[3:08] you do a better job curating a beautiful life. I'm crazy. You have an amazing closet. Your house is like,
[3:09] wild, like, if I compare myself to other friends of mine, I have, like, a very esthetic life, but I've always
[3:10] compared myself to you a little bit because you're my sister and I know you and you're my best friend.
[3:11] So I think I don't think of myself as very esthetic. I actually think of myself as, like, not that into things
[3:12] because I'm not on your level.
[3:13] Elsie
[3:14] It can mean different things. It can mean that you're because you're a person who buys a lot of coffee
[3:15] table books, you're a person who loves museums. Like, I think it includes all those things too. Like, if
[3:16] you want to watch films because they're beautiful and not just because of the story, you know, it
[3:17] includes all those things.
[3:18] Emma
[3:19] I've always had a closet that I was interested in, and I've always, you know, decorated my house like,
[3:20] I've always been like that, just not at the same rate as you. And I think also, like, you're a bit of a
[3:21] maximalist and I'm more of a minimalist, but just because you're a minimalist doesn't mean you don't
[3:22] care about esthetics. Yeah, it's just a different thing. So anyway, so, yeah, that was probably the one on
[3:23] my list that surprised me. But I was like, Yeah, I do feel that, and I think that's accurate, yeah, so, and
[3:24] mine kind of is. It gives you this almost like diagnosis, I would describe this, and it was like, bad news,
[3:25] work, centrism and family centrism are really tough when you have little kids. And based on your
[3:26] survey, we feel like you might have little kids, like, it was like, Ah, yes, you picked up on that. Yeah, the
[3:27] survey got me because yeah, I was like, yeah, probably the most challenging time in an era, yeah, of
[3:28] my life. It's kind of challenging for those two values and yeah, and I actually think Beholder ism there is
[3:29] like, a piece of like, like I was talking about, if you guys remember, at Halloween and Christmas this
[3:30] year, I didn't decorate on the level that I normally would, because my kid gets into everything. He's just
[3:31] at an age where it's not really safe. It's a lot of choking hazards. Yeah. So, you know, I think that there's
[3:32] a little bit there that's also like, oh, some of my values are a little like, squirrely right now, but it's just a
[3:33] little era. It's not really like a big deal. It's just how it is, like, this year.
[3:34] Elsie
[3:35] Yeah, you just have some things on hold for one to two years, yeah, and they'll be right back.
[3:36] Emma
[3:37] Yeah. And I'm so tired of bringing it up to be honest. Yeah, here I am. This is it so.
[3:38] Elsie
[3:39] Oh, okay, so when you did the results, so it sounds like you agreed with them, did it change anything
[3:40] about how you see yourself or how you would prioritize your life?
[3:41] Emma
[3:42] It made me feel like better about leaning into the beholderism stuff, not because I've really ever thought
[3:43] of it as shallow to care about your house or your clothes or just beautiful things. I don't really feel that
[3:44] way. I think in part, because we grew up like with such creativity being a value from our parents, that I
[3:45] just view art as like, important, yeah, but I did. It made me feel like, okay, you should decorate more as
[3:46] you can safely for your kid. That sounds great. You should you like that, you value it. You should do
[3:47] that. You don't need to feel any kind of weirdness about it. And then I also that, just as odd as it sounds,
[3:48] just the test being like, hey, you have these two values, work, centrism and family centrism. And it
[3:49] sounds like they're at a little bit at odds right now. I. Just felt very seen, and just like, oh, Thanks for
[3:50] seeing me. Yeah, it, yeah, that's it, and doing my best with it.
[3:51] Elsie
[3:52] Yeah, you'll get through it. It's like a tunnel.
[3:53] Emma
[3:54] Yeah. Did anything about yours make you change?
[3:55] Elsie
[3:56] I felt very validated by it, and I, I like the idea, I've always had kind of a defensive view of 90s movies,
[3:57] the portrayal of, like, the workaholic, you know, and like, yeah, the missing the baseball games and the,
[3:58] you know, that sort of thing. Since I've been an adult, I've always been kind of, like, really, like, really,
[3:59] you know what I mean? Because I think that you can love being a parent and also love your work, yes,
[4:00] kind of more than anything in the world, and that that's how I feel. So it made me feel like the way that I
[4:01] am isn't wrong, it's just true, and that it's okay, you know, to like, like, caring about my paint colors,
[4:02] yeah, like, if I get a wrong paint color on the wall, I'm I'm gonna change it. I'm not gonna just accept it
[4:03] and leave it. I'm going to change it. And if I have, like, you know, we talked about in the previous
[4:04] episode, if I have like, a year when I'm not feeling fulfilled in my career, then that probably means I'm
[4:05] going to be not feeling fulfilled in my whole life during that season, and that I'm going to have to make
[4:06] adjustments and that so that it just kind of made everything make a little bit more sense. And I felt like I
[4:07] can sort of like, accept these things and build off of them. So when you do your values for all our
[4:08] listeners, try to do that. Try to, like, just accept, you know what I mean? Like, accept some parts of
[4:09] yourself that maybe you know it wasn't like how you were taught as a child, or, like, I was always taught
[4:10] like you, like your family, family over everything. You know what I mean, which I still think is true to an
[4:11] extent. But like, this is just a different way of looking at it that I also think is valid. So, yeah, I really liked
[4:12] it, and it made me feel like, moving forward, okay, would you do any, like, would you tweak anything
[4:13] moving forward? I feel like I would kind of feel more confident about the fact that I do just, just love
[4:14] working it is like a major priority in my life, I feel like I can just like, own it a little bit more.
[4:15] Emma
[4:16] Yeah, no, I think that's good. Yeah, no, I don't have any I'm just kind of like, well, my kid will go back to
[4:17] daycare, pre K at some point, and that'll help with some of my things being at odds. Yeah. And also,
[4:18] he'll get bigger, and choking hazards won't be as big of an issue, and that'll be cool, yeah, really
[4:19] decorating for, you know, just things that I'd like to do in our home that I just have. I even, like, want to
[4:20] get some, like, built in Shelves, like, I have a couple spots, but I'm not going to right now, he takes a
[4:21] nap every day, and he takes a long nap, and I'm just not, I'm not comfortable with someone being
[4:22] hammering, you know, and so I really just can't have anyone do work in our house right now. It doesn't.
[4:23] It wouldn't make sense. It would be impossible for them to keep a proper schedule. It wouldn't be fair to
[4:24] anyone involved. So I'm not doing that right now, but I know I will in the future, and I really don't mind
[4:25] waiting, because in the meantime, I'm like, really killing it on my family centrism, yeah, value, so it's
[4:26] great.
[4:27] Elsie
[4:28] I love it.
[4:29] Emma
[4:30] All right. Well, should we do a hot take debate?
[4:31] Elsie
[4:32] Yeah, I like this. I like this one. I think it is pretty hot, pretty burning hot. Okay, so the hot take of the
[4:33] week is, I can't separate art from the artist. Example, Michael Jackson, so I think separating art from the
[4:34] artist is like such an interesting subject. There's so many sides to it. It's something that I often hear
[4:35] people fighting online about, and I have my own little mental roundabouts going going around and
[4:36] around in my mind. I just think it's such a fascinating subject. So yeah, I have like a three point sermon
[4:37] prepared. What about you?
[4:38] Emma
[4:39] Yeah, I'm also just, like, not super online anymore in social media ways, as people know. So sometimes
[4:40] I'm like, disconnected from how people feel about it. Now, you know, anyway, but have you ever had
[4:41] like, a someone whose personal life, like, or an action they did or something gave you the ick, so much
[4:42] that sort of like ruined their art for you. Yeah, yeah, definitely, I think, yeah. Because that's sort of what I
[4:43] think about with this hot take, is I'm like, I've never felt like, Oh, I've got to boycott this art because this
[4:44] person turned out to be a dirt bag or, you know, a criminal. I've never really felt on that level, but I have
[4:45] felt like, Oh, now when I watch this movie and I see this person, all I think about is this thing that they
[4:46] did, and it makes it this movie is not that fun to watch anymore for me, you know, like I have. That
[4:47] feeling, and it's a bummer if it's like a movie you really like, or a song you really loved, or whatever,
[4:48] because it's like, oh, now I am thinking about this thing they did that makes me very sad or kind of
[4:49] angry, or, you know, whatever, yeah, so, yeah, yeah. But as far as the boycotting, I've never really felt
[4:50] that. Personally, I kind of think art can exist, and people can exist. And if people commit crimes, they
[4:51] should, you know, justice should happen. And their art can still be out there, and people can look at it or
[4:52] listen to it or whatever. Like, I have no problem with people still enjoying, like, Michael Jackson's music.
[4:53] Doesn't bother me. If you turn it on, I'm not going to be like, did you know, though? Yeah, I don't care on
[4:54] that level. But obviously I think artists are people, and they should be held to account for their actions if
[4:55] we're able to. Sometimes people pass away, whatever.
[4:56] Elsie
[4:57] Yeah, that's also another interesting point, is that I do think it makes a difference if they're living or
[4:58] dead. And anyway, okay, so first of all, my main caveat is, I just want to say that's fair. However you feel
[4:59] is fair. If someone's art has been ruined for you because they did a terrible thing, that's fine. I think that
[5:00] that's fair. I think it does suck. I have compassion for it. I think it makes sense, and I wish it didn't
[5:01] happen, but as a history enthusiast, I know that it does. It's yeah, it's common. Okay, my little three
[5:02] pointers. So first of all, if you think you can't separate the art from the artist, I promise you, you already
[5:03] do. You just don't know it, because all the history are good things and good inventions, useful things,
[5:04] innovations, beautiful art made by terrible people like that is a tale as old as time, like it just is, and I
[5:05] think that it only occasionally gets brought up or remembered when it comes to dead people. You know,
[5:06] yeah. And another thing that one of my friends brought up that I don't know I think about it all the time,
[5:07] is that I do, I do think that sometimes women are more apt to try to, like, cancel other women that, but
[5:08] we sort of, like, accept other like, I think that, well, maybe not women, but I think people in general are
[5:09] sometimes accepting, like, men doing terrible things a little bit more than women doing terrible things.
[5:10] Emma
[5:11] I think women generally try to cancel more than men try to cancel. Yeah, we try to cancel men and
[5:12] women are not soft on our canceling. That's us women. We like to cancel. And I feel like men just don't
[5:13] do it as much generally, or at least they don't talk about it on the internet.
[5:14] Elsie
[5:15] Yeah, that's actually a good point. But also I'm mostly following women, but, yeah, but I still think it's
[5:16] true.
[5:17] Emma
[5:18] Well, I just, I don't know if it can be true in part, because, I think, and this is including history, there's so
[5:19] much more art and things made by men, because for a long time, that's the only people who are
[5:20] allowed to do it anyway, and, you know, so there's just a lot more men to cancel, just just numbers wise,
[5:21] you know, quantity wise stats like this. You know, I'm not trying to be like men are worse than women.
[5:22] That's not my point. It's just sheer numbers. As far as who's made the most art leading up to now,
[5:23] because who is able to who had rights, who had time, blah, blah, blah. So, you know, I kind of feel like
[5:24] there's just more men to cancel. So I don't necessarily think it is directed more at women. I think it's, it
[5:25] seems to me, it's directed more men. But it might just be a numbers thing.
[5:26] Elsie
[5:27] So I'm gonna take that back. I just think that, yeah, like, maybe women are pressuring ourselves, slash
[5:28] each other, to be able to correct everything that's wrong in the world. And, you know, other people,
[5:29] mostly men, are, like, just not worried about it. And that makes me sad. Also, I think there's like, a this,
[5:30] Michael Jackson is a good is a good one for this. But I also think JK Rowling kind of comes into it, but
[5:31] like the idea of, like, are we canceling the artist, or are we canceling the art, or and are we also
[5:32] canceling the fans? Are we also mad at the fans? You know what I mean? It's like, there's lots of layers
[5:33] to it. And I think that deciding within yourself, like, what, you know, what the real problem is, I think is
[5:34] good for those things, and I think is helpful because it's not clean and it's not perfect, and like, yeah,
[5:35] people can do terrible things that ruin beautiful things for you in your heart, and then you feel like it
[5:36] should ruin it in everyone's heart, and maybe it doesn't.
[5:37] Emma
[5:38] But you're not in charge of other people, right? You're in charge of your own heart. Yeah, I feel like, if
[5:39] you're like, if you're at Halloween and you see someone doing the thriller dance. And you're like, you
[5:40] support child molestation. It's like, Whoa, dude. That's too much. But if you hear about an artist who's
[5:41] like, done something like that, and you're like, they don't need to stay on trial because I like their music.
[5:42] Whoa, dude. That's not okay either. It's just like, yeah, who needs to go on trial? The artist, the person
[5:43] who broke a law or did a thing that we don't agree with as a society, the art just exists, though, and
[5:44] people can like it, people can also not like it. Whatever you're in charge of how you feel, yeah, and if for
[5:45] you, it's ruined. That sucks, and I'm sorry, and I have things like that, and it's a bummer. But other
[5:46] people might not feel that way, and they're in charge of their own heart, so you don't need to try to
[5:47] change them. That's just kind of silly. It's a little controlling, I think.
[5:48] Elsie
[5:49] It can be okay. And then this is the one that I've thought about the most, because when it comes to my
[5:50] kids, one of the best pieces of advice that my therapist ever gave me, we have, like, a close family
[5:51] member who has a couple times, like, crossed a line of teaching things to my kids that were offensive to
[5:52] me and that we had to, like, sort of, like, sort that out together with, you know, me and the adult, and
[5:53] then also with the talking to the kids and making sure everything was cool and it, yeah, my therapist
[5:54] advice was that letting them hear opinions that are offensive does prepare them for life, yeah, and that,
[5:55] like, even though it's like, you wish it didn't happen and you wish it wasn't true, it's not inherently bad for
[5:56] them to, like, hear us explain why we don't agree with something. And in some ways, it can be, like, a
[5:57] good education for them. So yeah, for us personally, when our daughter read the Harry Potter books,
[5:58] we did talk about the tweets, and it was a good conversation, and she understood, and she I think she
[5:59] holds both things in her mind now, and I think it's still her favorite books that she loved reading. But also
[6:00] I do she's not gonna go to school and say that JK, Rowling's her favorite celebrity or a great role model.
[6:01] Emma
[6:02] Or dress up like her for Halloween and not expect someone to say something.
[6:03] Elsie
[6:04] Yeah I think it's okay that, that there's both things in there, and yeah, for us, for our decision, I felt like,
[6:05] I'm glad that she still read the books, because they're books, and I think that books are good for
[6:06] children, and I don't think the art is harming her, but I do understand when people are like, I don't want
[6:07] to give my money so I get the whole spectrum of it.
[6:08] Emma
[6:09] Your money is like your heart, you get to decide how to spend your own you don't necessarily get to
[6:10] decide how other people spend theirs.
[6:11] Elsie
[6:12] So, yeah, yeah, but yeah, the last thing I'll say about it is, when I was studying art history for my novel,
[6:13] a lot of the artists that are in the novel and that I studied about are still, like, very famous today, like
[6:14] Picasso and Salvador Dali and some other people, but those are like the main word, like, super famous
[6:15] today. And I don't know, I just think it's like, so interesting and also strange how, like, even just 50 years
[6:16] in the future, people end up knowing one thing about these famous people, big name, like most famous
[6:17] artists in the world, and most people can name one fact about them. So I think, just like no one is really
[6:18] to blame for, like, not canceling. Yeah, my personal opinion is that you don't have to cancel art. I just
[6:19] think that shouldn't be on us. But I think that if something gives you the ick and changes how you feel
[6:20] about it, that's, that's, that can be true too. Yeah, for sure. Anyway, let us know what you think. I think
[6:21] it's, I think this is one of the most interesting subjects that I like hearing people debate it. I think there
[6:22] are a lot of sides to it.
[6:23] Emma
[6:24] Oh, yeah. And I think too, like our hot take here has included a very kind of clear cut artist, Michael
[6:25] Jackson, as far as what offense. But there's also a lot of other times where you're like, oh, this famous
[6:26] actor said something kind of insensitive. That wasn't that, you know, maybe they're not a bad words,
[6:27] but they said something kind of insensitive, and now I really don't like their movies, and it's like, okay,
[6:28] yeah, that's up to you, but maybe someone else just wants to watch their movies and be like, Wow,
[6:29] they're a great action hero, and I don't want to hear what they have to say politically. And I'm separating
[6:30] the two, you know, like, I think that's totally fine. Like, whatever.
[6:31] Elsie
[6:32] Yeah, no, I agree with that. I think that we do, we do separate art from artists all the time. We just don't
[6:33] realize it, because I don't know. I think it's like a modern idea that we have to have a moral judgment on
[6:34] every single artist. I don't personally think that's our responsibility. I. I just think it's like too much to
[6:35] carry. And I don't know, I kind of just want to let art be art. And honestly, historical art gets it, gets that
[6:36] free pass because no one knows. So, yeah, anyway, fun topic. But yeah, I love the hot takes. Please
[6:37] keep sending them a podcast at a beautiful mess, calm anytime you want. Okay, so we have a listener
[6:38] question, and is, do you keep your butter on the fridge or in the counter? And I just, I just had to include
[6:39] this, because I think that is worth talking about. It is, what do you think?
[6:40] Emma
[6:41] So we do keep bars in the fridge all the time, yeah, all the time, always. And it's kind of silly, really,
[6:42] because I should get a butter dish that you where you can have it sitting out on the counter and have it
[6:43] covered, because it is annoying when you're trying to make toast and you want to spread some butter
[6:44] and it's completely hard, and it's like, you have to remember to get the toast out of the toaster right
[6:45] away, put the hard butter on it, let it melt a little bit, then spread it out. And it's like, this is kind of
[6:46] ridiculous, but I think just, I don't know, my little brain is, like, it's dairy. It goes in the fridge.
[6:47] Elsie
[6:48] It's how we were raised. But I will say now I have both. So I have the compartment in the fridge with all
[6:49] the butter for when we make cookies full of butter. Well, when I make cookies, I'll set it out, yeah, but
[6:50] just having it out all the time is kind of smart. So I have this little covered dish that's meant for butter,
[6:51] and there's always butter in it. So we always have soft butter, and I just put in half a stick at a time when
[6:52] it gets kind of low. So there's always soft butter. Get you should get one. You should try it. I should, I
[6:53] recommend it. If anyone's just you weren't raised that way. I wasn't either, or you just haven't tried it.
[6:54] Like, there is nothing wrong with leaving butter on your counter for weeks. It doesn't go bad. Nothing
[6:55] happens, and it's fine. And for us, we eat enough of it that it it's just fine.
[6:56] Emma
[6:57] It's not gonna be out that long anyway. Yeah, totally, I'm gonna see it. I'll be like, Oh yeah, that butter is
[6:58] out. It better make some toast.
[6:59] Elsie
[7:00] It's really nice. Like, yeah, you don't want to have cold butter.
[7:01] Emma
[7:02] Let me ask you this, though, in the summer, do you feel like it ever gets too melty? Does it start to get
[7:03] liquidy ever?
[7:04] Elsie
[7:05] No. Our house doesn't get hot to that extent, air conditioning.
[7:06] Emma
[7:07] I don't feel like mine does. But I just wondered. Okay, well, that was a pretty pressing question. So let
[7:08] us know when you write us where you're at with the butter situation, and now it's time for a joke or a fact
[7:09] or a meditation with Nova.
[7:10] Elsie
[7:11] Hey, Nova, what do you have for us this week?
[7:12] Nova
[7:13] I have a good fact.
[7:14] Elsie
[7:15] A good fact. Okay, I'm so excited.
[7:16] Nova
[7:17] Did you know that Abraham Lincoln was known for his wrestling because out of the 300 times he did it,
[7:18] he only lost once.
[7:19] Elsie
[7:20] Whoa, that is pretty cool. So he was really good at wrestling.
[7:21] Nova
[7:22] Yeah.
[7:23] Elsie
[7:24] Wow. Okay, well, that changes everything I know about Abraham Lincoln, thank you for sharing.
[7:25] Nova
[7:26] You're welcome.
[7:27] Elsie
[7:28] Have a good week.
[7:29] Nova
[7:30] Have a good week. Bye.
[7:31] Elsie
[7:32] Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back next week with our comfort re watch episode of the
[7:33] 1995 classic Empire Records. Email us anytime at podcast@beautifulmess.com.

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