# #298: The Five Minute Practice that Changed my Life (with guest Katie Day)

An episode of [A Beautiful Mess Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1485472892), 4 May 2026, 56 min.

Audio: https://mgln.ai/e/498/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.libsyn.com/secure/abmpodcast/ABM_EP298_Final.mp3?dest-id=1624655

This week we are joined by our bestie Katie Day who is here to share the five minute practice that changed her life. We'll also discuss a hot take about white tennis shoes. Thank you to this week's sponsor: DrinkLMNT.com/ABeautifulMess Katie's 5 minute practice: • Get water • 3 things you are grateful for • First person goal Connect with Katie: https://www.instagram.com/ohkatieday/ https://ohkatieday.com/ Go to https://ohkatieday.com/habitlab to join the Habit Lab with discount code MESS Shailey & Katie's Lemonade Stand Podcast You can support us by leaving us a couple of 5 star recipe reviews this week at abeautifulmess.com Have a topic idea for the podcast? Write in to us at podcast@abeautifulmess.com or leave us a voicemail at 417-893-0011.

## Transcript

[0:00] Elsie
[0:01] You're listening to the A Beautiful Mess podcast, your cozy comfort listen. I'm your host, Elsie Larson.
[0:02] Emma
[0:03] And I'm your host, Emma Chapman.
[0:04] Elsie
[0:05] This week, we're joined by our bestie, Katie Day, who is here to share the five minute practice that
[0:06] changed her life. We'll also discuss our hot take about
[0:07] Emma
[0:08] white tennis shoes.
[0:09] Elsie
[0:10] Yep, welcome Katie.
[0:11] Katie
[0:12] I am so excited to be here. You guys, when you did your intro just now, it sounds just like when you do
[0:13] your intro on your podcast.
[0:14] Emma
[0:15] We did it twice, and she got to hear that because it wasn't right, and that's pretty normal.
[0:16] Katie
[0:17] I also wasn't expecting such a cozy chair. I feel so hosted.
[0:18] Elsie
[0:19] We're so happy you're here. Yeah, we're gonna have our Magical lunch after this. And life is beautiful.
[0:20] Emma
[0:21] It's very cave chic down here.
[0:22] Katie
[0:23] Yes, caved chic. I am excited. I hope that you get to do your sandwich over again, because I heard on
[0:24] your podcast that there was drama with your half sandwich taken by your dogs that threw out your
[0:25] back.
[0:26] Elsie
[0:27] The dogs are mean, I am well.
[0:28] Emma
[0:29] The puppies are bullies, and I've now had this sandwich, and I confirm best sandwich ever.
[0:30] Elsie
[0:31] It's magical.
[0:32] Emma
[0:33] I would probably be like I have to rehome these dogs now.
[0:34] Katie
[0:35] Okay, well, I brought you guys a tiny little go. You have to fight over who gets what?
[0:36] Emma
[0:37] Okay, now our listeners are gonna be like, Why don't they have video? Because we're not content.
[0:38] Elsie
[0:39] We will eventually, okay, romance reads, yep, I heard you like better we traded, yeah. So it's
[0:40] bookmarks. One is Who told you which I took and the other one says, romance reads, which I handed
[0:41] to Emma, yes.
[0:42] Emma
[0:43] And it has spice level and titles. I'll fill this up this year. That's fun, and they better all be all the spice
[0:44] levels, so we're just like, didn't like it.
[0:45] Katie
[0:46] That is who I assumed each one would go to. I'm glad they found their rifle home. Yeah, just a stick of
[0:47] butter. That's it.
[0:48] Elsie
[0:49] I love butter, actually. I mean, because, you know, I love popcorn is one of my top favorite foods.
[0:50] Emma
[0:51] I think if you meet someone and they're like, I don't like butter, I'm like, You better explain your allergy
[0:52] right now or get the hell out of here.
[0:53] Katie
[0:54] That would be the hottest of takes.
[0:55] Emma
[0:56] Melted, hot, melted, hot butter.
[0:57] Katie
[0:58] If someone writes in and says they don't like butter, that could be a whole episode.
[0:59] Elsie
[1:00] Some, some of the hot takes we get are kind of like that, really. Okay, so we're tossing it to Katie. She is
[1:01] the leader of this episode, and we are merely here to learn.
[1:02] Katie
[1:03] I am so excited to be here. I also you guys can cut this if you want, but don't cut it. I feel like you need
[1:04] that. Your listeners need to know, like a reference in real life of how wonderful of people that you are.
[1:05] Can I just, like, sit here and compliment people you guys are just saying no, just shaking your head, no.
[1:06] I didn't shake my head, no. You guys actually, literally have, like, changed my life, just through your
[1:07] generosity. You guys. They housed me during covid. I had no house, and you let me stay in your
[1:08] Airbnb. And I will never, ever forget it. They were renovating. We were renovating. We had nowhere to
[1:09] go right before the stay at home order, and Emma's like, we have this, like, extra house. I noticed you
[1:10] had no houses and we have an extra house. I noticed you have four kids and no house, would you like
[1:11] to say? And it was wonderful. And you guys have been so supportive while I write a book. And I just
[1:12] think you are completely the most wonderful, generous people in the world. And people need to know, if
[1:13] you wondered, if you're listening, what are they like in real life? They're great.
[1:14] Emma
[1:15] Thank you. It's very kind. I think we've fallen in on your podcast before, too.
[1:16] Katie
[1:17] You have, back in the day. Yes, yeah, lemonade stand.
[1:18] Elsie
[1:19] So yeah, Katie's podcast is called Shelly and Katie's lemonade stand.
[1:20] Katie
[1:21] It's true, positivity turning lemons into lemonade all the time. But yes, I just wanted to make sure I said
[1:22] that. But you want to know how to change your life in five minutes?
[1:23] Elsie
[1:24] Yes. Okay, so I'm realizing, before we jump into that, do you want to just tell like, the elevator pitch of
[1:25] who you are and why you talk about habits.
[1:26] Emma
[1:27] Yeah, because you might be like, she's not gonna be able to give me any tips to change my life in five
[1:28] minutes. I don't know who this is, so probably, I mean, if they haven't listened to your podcast, then you
[1:29] probably should let them know why you are an habit expert and where they can find more of your work
[1:30] after you do change their life in five minutes.
[1:31] Katie
[1:32] Yes. Okay, so I am the stereotypical distracted, creative type. I'm an Enneagram seven I was in a habit
[1:33] of my life of starting a lot of passionate things and then not following through on any of them. So a lot of
[1:34] times that was reflected in my house. Sometimes that was reflected in my health. I get really excited on
[1:35] a kick, I would not follow through. And then I was sort of always picking up the pieces of these things
[1:36] that I started. And I started to realize that if I wanted to contain my like crazy, my passion, I would have
[1:37] to start creating systems. So I started systematizing literally everything. And what I realized is, like the I.
[1:38] Creative energy that comes out of somebody's brain when you're like, idea, idea, idea, idea,
[1:39] enthusiasm, enthusiasm. You basically have two choices. You can either numb that because it's really
[1:40] intense, or you can systematize it, automate it, never think about it again, and then free up all that
[1:41] creative energy to do the stuff that you actually care about. I tried both. I went ahead and I tried the
[1:42] numbing thing. I don't recommend that one. That one was not as helpful. So I kind of reached my own
[1:43] rock bottom. I talk about this a lot in my newsletter, in my podcast, I sort of everything felt way too much
[1:44] and too loud during covid. That was sort of my low point. We were renovating a house. Have you guys
[1:45] ever had any stress during renovations. Never, never. And, you know, obviously we're all facing this
[1:46] intense amount of uncertainty, uncertainty that we never, as a society, ever felt before. And I kind of like
[1:47] that moment in the Barbie movie where Kate McKinnon, as weird Barbie, is like, do you want to dig
[1:48] deep? And do you want to, like, be a big girl and you want to do, like, the hard thing, or do you want to,
[1:49] you know, just opt out and keep on living your life and numbing. And I was like, I will choose numbing. I
[1:50] want to do the numbing. I don't want to drink the wine, yeah. And so I numbed. I numbed so hard. I
[1:51] numbed in all the ways. I became somebody who not only, like, drank every night, but was like, let's do
[1:52] a drink. Let's all make a big joke about it, and escapism sort of became, like my entire personality
[1:53] during covid. And I honestly think like that probably could have been fine for a lot of people. It was fine,
[1:54] but I realized that, like numbing can also then become a habit. So I'd kind of like permanently altered
[1:55] my ability to, like, feel regular Joy, I kind of altered, like my dopamine levels, and I got used to numbing.
[1:56] Numbing became a habit. And so the world opened up. And like all my friends who were also day
[1:57] drinking, just went, like, back to work. And I was like, me too, great. But I was like, Wait, oh no, I this is
[1:58] literally becoming, like, a part of my life, of just like, how fast can I numb this pain? And so I had to sort
[1:59] of decide what I was going to do with that. And I am kind of dramatic the Gretchen Rubin idea of either
[2:00] being a moderator or an abstainer. I am very much I identify with an abstainer. And it is easier for me to
[2:01] do none of something than to do, like, one of something very jealous of the moderators looking at you.
[2:02] Emma, well, I feel like the people because Elsie is an Enneagram seven too, yeah. And the people who
[2:03] have, like, have all the ideas and all the passion, it's probably like more of a burden to have to
[2:04] constantly make a decision kind of about the same thing over and over, and abstaining is kind of like I
[2:05] made one decision, right? And now I'm not making a decision anymore, and I'm moving on to all these
[2:06] other ideas that I have an enthusiasm, whereas if you could moderate, or if you are a moderator, or
[2:07] however you want to look at it, then you're able to make a decision again and again and again and
[2:08] again, which might not be exhausting for you. It's not for me, because I'm a little tortoise, a little nine
[2:09] who's like, I'm going to go to sleep now, and I'll think about it again in a minute, and I go to sleep now.
[2:10] And so I just don't have the same wavelength. So I don't know I've because I think you guys are both
[2:11] kind of, like similar in some ways. Do I'm drawn to you? Katie, oh, like, I'm drawn to my sister.
[2:12] Emma
[2:13] Yeah. So, like, I like enthusiastic, optimistic people, but it can find a way to contain it. I think is an
[2:14] interesting thought experiment. And so tell us more about your experiment you went on.
[2:15] Katie
[2:16] Yeah. So my hottest take, I think, is anyone who says, like, I just don't have willpower. I'm like, I think all
[2:17] willpower is just decision fatigue. Like, when you feel like your willpower is running out, it's actually just
[2:18] your prefrontal cortex. I'm gonna talk a lot about the brain. Get ready. I love the I love science. Your
[2:19] prefrontal cortex is the same part of your brain that's responsible for decision making and making really
[2:20] good decisions, and it fatigues throughout the day. So if you've ever felt like, extremely motivated at the
[2:21] beginning of the day, and then by the end of the day, you're like, Whatever, I'll just eat junk food, it's
[2:22] because you have taxed that decision making power all day long. So yeah, all that to say I was really
[2:23] excited by this idea of, what if I just, like, take a moment, clean house, reset everything. I started
[2:24] studying dopamine and how, you know I was flooding my dopamine sinners with all this, like, artificial
[2:25] hits that my baseline level of how to experience joy had actually raised, which means I was like, waking
[2:26] up in a deficit. So I was like, waking up in a state of withdrawal, because I, you know, was already not
[2:27] getting, like, the hit of whatever I'd been flooding my brain with. When you learn about this, there can be
[2:28] a lot of shame attached, but I think learning the science made me go, oh, no, my brain's just doing
[2:29] what, like, what it's supposed to do when you flooded it with the dopamine that I did, you know, and
[2:30] now I need to recalibrate. So for me, it was easier just to take, like, a big break and just see what
[2:31] happens, and again, experiment. That's the word. I love framing everything as an experiment, because
[2:32] if you kind of decide, like everyone attention or world, I am now sober, it's like, way a. Lot of pressure,
[2:33] pressure. It's a lot of like, what like, that seems like a big decree. And I wasn't sure. I didn't know if it
[2:34] was something I was gonna do forever. I felt like that was the label made it more intense. So I was like,
[2:35] I'm just gonna do an experiment where I try to reset this stuff. I think I'm gonna go, you know, do a dry
[2:36] January. But I've heard that maybe it's better to do two months. I'm gonna do a dry January, February.
[2:37] But then I kind of got really into the research, and got really excited about it, and started to gain
[2:38] momentum, and said, This is where my story just gets a little bit this is the part where I say I'm not a
[2:39] doctor. Mnlc, are not doctors. Listen to your doctor. Maybe don't do what I do. It's pretty bonkers. So I
[2:40] kind of got on a roll, and I was curious about addiction transfer. So if I'm eliminating wine, it's very, very
[2:41] likely that I'm just going to copy and paste that right to something else. We just sugar is a big one. Just
[2:42] gave myself away. A little bit sugar is a big one. Or the one that is, like, hilarious, because it's not a
[2:43] substance, but codependency of any kind, like I, you know, if I before was I'm alone with this, this, like,
[2:44] scary thought, or I'm alone with this pain, I'm just gonna numb it with wine. I'm alone with the scary
[2:45] thought, I'm just gonna text a friend and just like, be like, hey, just checking in. Am I good person? Am I
[2:46] very you know, whatever, whatever you can do to just kind of, like, transfer that sitting with yourself to
[2:47] outsource it to something else, either a person or a substance. I was trying to not do that. I was not
[2:48] trying to find a new addiction. And your girl's an addict. She loves it. I love I love to binge. So I was like,
[2:49] I wonder if I eliminate what I would be most likely to transfer addiction to. If I eliminate those things, and
[2:50] I can't transfer addiction, right? So then I just started adding more and more things to my list. So it all
[2:51] started with stuff in my body. So I got, like, the alcohol thing going, got a kick out of it. Then I eliminated
[2:52] sugar, then I eliminated fake sugar. Then I was, like, getting really into, like this, like, just testing things
[2:53] for inflammation. So I got really nutritiony about it. But then I was like, Okay, what are the non edible
[2:54] things? So I was like, I'm gonna give up social media for a second. I'm gonna give up TV for a second. I
[2:55] can't binge Netflix if I just never turn the TV on. Right? Eliminating, eliminating. Have I lost your
[2:56] listeners already? I cannot wait to find out.
[2:57] Emma
[2:58] We've eliminated them.
[2:59] Elsie
[3:00] It is, like, unrelatable, but I think that's also what makes it a good story.
[3:01] Katie
[3:02] It's very unrelatable.
[3:03] Elsie
[3:04] Like, you tell me how it went for you, because I'm not gonna do it, right? Exactly?
[3:05] Katie
[3:06] Yeah, that's what, you know, that's what I described it. As I started to write about this in a newsletter, I
[3:07] was like, You know what? I'm gonna try everything so you don't have to. That will be the premise.
[3:08] Another little fun fact about me is, my background is actually in comedy writing. So I'm like, if an improv
[3:09] comedian, like, can go to CrossFit and write about it, like, that's, come on, that's fun. I am a skeptic,
[3:10] like, I am the one who doesn't do cheesy stuff, and so I'm gonna try all the cheesy stuff. I'm gonna do it
[3:11] as a skeptic, and then I'm gonna tell you what it was like. So you don't have to, right? So Elsie doesn't
[3:12] have to. So as I'm eliminating all these things, I think what was beautiful is, as we're, like, eliminating
[3:13] the decision fatigue, it opens up this space in my brain. Because, you know, all creativity is just problem
[3:14] solving as well, but I was using all of my creative problem solving skills on solving the problem of
[3:15] moderating. So then when I just made one decision, it freed up all this space to now be creative. So
[3:16] suddenly I had this desire to write a newsletter that I didn't have that a year before, I didn't have any
[3:17] space to write a newsletter, you know, going and trying CrossFit, going and making a vision board for
[3:18] the first time, going to a sound bowl, healing. All of that is creativity. Like it requires energy. I didn't have
[3:19] any, like, appetite for that stuff a year prior, because I was just trying to keep up with my, you know,
[3:20] problem of moderating, an addiction, you know. So it's really beautiful. What happens when you create
[3:21] space that you were previously using just to kind of keep the status quo going. You know? It was
[3:22] exciting. So what I kind of decided was I had been playing like defense in my life. I was really letting my
[3:23] life happen to me, and almost in a way that was sort of a victim mindset, but a sneaky one, because I
[3:24] kind of was always on the like, I was always aware when my kids would use victim mindset, when other
[3:25] people would use it. I don't think I was it was sneakier than that. I was just kind of like, well, oh, well, I
[3:26] don't know it's like a midlife crisis, but the most subtle, unsexy version possible. But I think that part is
[3:27] relatable. You know, I get a lot of people that ride and are like, I can't put my finger on it, but this can't
[3:28] be it. You know, I just feel low key dissatisfied, but I have everything I ever wanted. You know, that's the
[3:29] part that's like, the feeling is relatable. Okay, so now, what are we going to do about that? And so what I
[3:30] realized, too, was it's much easier to go towards something you do want than just to go away from
[3:31] something you don't want. So all of these fun I'll try everything so you don't have to that gave me
[3:32] something to do, like a wellness bucket list that I could start checking off, and then that filling up your
[3:33] brain, rather than just, like, what am I not doing? You know, I'm not drinking, I'm not having sugar. It
[3:34] gave me something positive to go toward. And I started playing offense in my life again. And through all
[3:35] these exercises, by the way, they're popular for a reason. They were all great, except for cold plunging.
[3:36] Emma
[3:37] Cold plunging was your favorite, right?
[3:38] Katie
[3:39] I did not love cold plunging and then CrossFit like much respect, but I was sore for, I don't even know, a
[3:40] month. I might still be sore from CrossFit. It was so hard, so, but I'm glad that I tried it right and it was
[3:41] really fun. I that entire newsletter I did only with Nickelback puns, so, yeah, that's my highest art I've
[3:42] created so far.
[3:43] Emma
[3:44] It's like, all the CrossFit people are like, either like, Wow, you really just saw me, or they're like, No way.
[3:45] Katie
[3:46] So yeah, playing offense in my life, and then realizing, you know what, I think I'm getting to the root of
[3:47] why I was so dissatisfied, you know, I think there's something inside me that is, you know, I had this
[3:48] really wonderful but very safe job. I think maybe I had just sort of gotten a little bored. I didn't have
[3:49] anything I was pursuing anymore. Everything had everything had just sort of leveled out. And to quote
[3:50] Tony Robbins, he says most of our midlife crisises happen from some type of plateau in the two
[3:51] categories of either growth or contribution. And so if you kind of feel like you had this big goal but
[3:52] you've leveled out, you can kind of start to have an identity spiral about that. You're like, I don't have
[3:53] anything I'm going toward. Going toward now contribution the same way, you know, a lot of people feel
[3:54] this feeling of like, you know, I was, I had these really young kids, so I was contributing all the time,
[3:55] every second of the day, and then they suddenly went to school, and I thought I'd feel so relieved, but
[3:56] suddenly, now I'm kind of, like, lacking. What is my purpose? How am I contributing? You know, so I
[3:57] was realizing I was plateauing in both of those areas. And the meta part is, is the stuff that I was most
[3:58] passionate about was this stuff. Was this stuff of self development. It's the stuff I can't stop talking
[3:59] about. It's the stuff I can't stop reading about. It's the stuff that I when I was a kid. I wandered my way
[4:00] into that section of the library and was like, what there are books about how to grow this is so
[4:01] interesting. So I decided I want to kind of just see where this goes, and start studying, literally, the
[4:02] neuroscience of habit change, and go get a certification and start learning about coaching others. And
[4:03] maybe I can help women like me, who are also the skeptics, but are like a little bit like the skeptic thing
[4:04] is not working for me anymore. I can't just make fun of that whole culture. I think maybe there's
[4:05] something to it, but I don't know where to start, and I don't know if I'm too far gone or if I'm too old to
[4:06] make a career pivot. Or, you know, if this is just this low key satisfaction, is that just the way it has to
[4:07] be? Everyone doesn't really like their job, right? This is normal. Everybody thinks Parenting is hard,
[4:08] right? Everybody thinks marriage is just kind of work, work, work. I mean, that's what we hear all the
[4:09] time. So it's like everyone hates their body. Everyone Yeah, right. What if I refuse to make that my
[4:10] narrative? Because I'll tell you what. I spent a long time with that as my like, North Star, and I've tried
[4:11] that now. So what if I try a new North Star? What if I refuse to let that be true about me? What if I refuse
[4:12] to settle for just okay now? What if, like, my marriage is fine, but it could be great. What if I could love
[4:13] my job and not just like, you know, I love a little, I love the money, yeah, and I do the rest, right? What?
[4:14] What would happen like? What if, that's the experiment now? What if I could actually wildly chase a life
[4:15] that I find completely satisfying, and not just just okay, I love it, and so we're gonna do that in five
[4:16] minutes, right? Five minutes. So is that five minutes? What set your time? The practice is five minutes,
[4:17] but it represents so much of what I learned. Okay, yes. Are you ready? Yes, let's begin. I would like to
[4:18] have a disclaimer that only you can change your life, but I'm here to assist. Yeah. So there's a five
[4:19] minute practice that I do every day, but it definitely represents so much more. So this was actually my
[4:20] first assignment from my coach. Shout out to Carolina, and it is the daily three and the very first step,
[4:21] this is what I do every morning. It only takes five minutes, so there's really no reason that you can't do
[4:22] it. The very first step is you pour yourself a giant glass of water, or, if you want to, extra credit, fill up
[4:23] your water bottle that you plan to just have near you all day long. So this is the quickest win. And if you
[4:24] can start your day with the easiest win, I'm not kidding. It signals to your brain that you are a winner,
[4:25] that you take care of yourself. Your brain is 75% water, and if you are dehydrated, your brain is not
[4:26] functioning optimally. So I never drink water in the morning. I only drink coffee. What does that mean?
[4:27] So if you are lacking focus, or if you feel like your mood is off, the first question I will ask is like, Have
[4:28] you had any water today? And then what's beautiful about this too, is if you'll just get in the habit of
[4:29] filling up. Your water bottle and keeping it near you, you don't even have to drink it, but you will, won't
[4:30] you, because if it's near you, you take little sips all day long, and if it's not near you, you don't so that's
[4:31] the very first thing you can do, and then you can sip on your water while you're doing the other two
[4:32] steps of these three. Okay, water. Have I convinced you to drink water?
[4:33] Emma
[4:34] Doable? Yes, doable. I'm convinced.
[4:35] Katie
[4:36] The quickest one. It signals to your brain like, I've already won, already today. I'm a winner. I think I'll
[4:37] continue winning.
[4:38] Emma
[4:39] Yeah. And it's like, I'm going to take care of myself. Yep. And it's also like, if you wake up and you're
[4:40] like, should I go ahead and get some of that Easter candy? Wait a second, I'm going to choose water
[4:41] first. Oh, nobody else is doing that every single morning. Okay, no problem. Nope.
[4:42] Katie
[4:43] I love that for you, if you want Easter candy, I think that's great. I almost wore a Halloween vest today,
[4:44] so I want you to get just whatever dopamine you want today. Okay, so water. Then while you're sipping
[4:45] on that water, you are going to write down. Do not roll your eyes yet. Please remember I did all this as a
[4:46] skeptic. It even works on skeptics. You're going to write down three things that you are grateful for. I
[4:47] realized that this is not rocket science, so let me explain why this matters. We were programmed with a
[4:48] negativity bias in our brain because of, I mean, think about literally, like early humans, surviving,
[4:49] surviving. This is true. We are supposed to run, sprint away from tigers, and we are able to just casually
[4:50] saunter toward berries. So if you've ever gotten like, I don't know, five compliments in a day and only
[4:51] one negative comment, chances are you're carrying around that negative comment, right? We can
[4:52] actually help rewire our brain to look for what is good, but we have to actually try to do that. It's not
[4:53] going to naturally happen on its own. So when you've heard the phrase like gratitude practice, literally,
[4:54] it's a practice, you're strengthening your gratitude muscle, and just by writing three things that you're
[4:55] grateful for at the very beginning of your day, you're creating the habit of looking for what's good. Now
[4:56] here's my little extra bonus. I will now use this if you're just now getting started the gratitude practice
[4:57] whatever. I mean literally, look around the room. If you think three things are cute, you write that down.
[4:58] It does not have to be that deep. It more matters that you're doing it every day. But now that I've been
[4:59] doing it for a while, I will actually use this three things to go to war and combat, play offense against
[5:00] whatever is currently bumming me out. So like, if I just got in, like, a fight with my husband, I will literally
[5:01] use this three things to think of three things that I like about him, and it will actually change my nervous
[5:02] system by the time I get to the third one. So if I was all riled up, literally by thinking about three things
[5:03] that are great about him, I can actually feel my system like calming down. And almost every religion in
[5:04] the world has some type of version of like, pray for your enemies, which I'm not saying my husband's
[5:05] my enemy, but, you know, in these moments when you're kind of like. It's great advice. It gets timeless,
[5:06] ancient advice from almost all religions. This is why we do it. It's because it changes your posture
[5:07] toward them, right? Whether or not it has any impact on them. It changes your you know, Emma, I
[5:08] remember you doing exercises like this a long time ago, and was very inspired by it. If you are currently
[5:09] trapped in like a work situation, can you write three things that are good about your work? And maybe,
[5:10] honestly, maybe you try this a few times and you can't think of a single good thing that's informative too.
[5:11] Maybe it's time to actually make a change, right? But give it a try first and see if you can't start carving
[5:12] that muscle to look for what is good about whatever's hard right? Now, are you in a parenting slump?
[5:13] You know, marriage slump, career slump? Are the big ones I always hear. Is it about your body? You
[5:14] know, can you think I can't think of any good thing about your body? Try sit for a second. The three
[5:15] things you can think about that you do like about your body. Is it your eyes? You know, give it a go and
[5:16] see if you can't start training that muscle to look for the good. You in?
[5:17] Elsie
[5:18] I love it. Yeah. No, I do. It's great.
[5:19] Emma
[5:20] It makes me think about too, like you were, like, walked in your backyard, and you realize, like, you
[5:21] always walk the exact same path, like, to the gate to open or whatever, and you start noticing that, like,
[5:22] the grass doesn't grow quite as well in that spot. And it's like, sometimes you've kind of like, gotten into
[5:23] a mode where you're like, I wake up, and the first thing I think about is how I'm annoyed that I have to
[5:24] do stuff with my kids and not do the thing I want to do journal or whatever it is, you know. And so it's like
[5:25] you have this groove and your brain just goes there. And so you're trying to, like, make your you're
[5:26] trying to give yourself new paths to the Gateway where it's like, oh, but I love the house I live in. I'm
[5:27] glad this water's clean. Could not be but I can just drink water right out in the tap. You know, whatever
[5:28] stupid thing you come up with for your grateful list, maybe it's profound, maybe it's dumb. It doesn't
[5:29] really matter. It's just kind of like getting you off that normal path so that if you're not doing the exact
[5:30] same one every day where you're like, I'm just upset about something, or I'm always thinking about this
[5:31] one thing that's bothering me or whatever, and I've forgotten about these other things that I already
[5:32] solved or whatever.
[5:33] Katie
[5:34] In you just described neuroplasticity, well done. And speaking of grass, one of my favorite quotes is the
[5:35] grass is always greener where you water it, right? I love it. I love so much. So this is. A little bit of
[5:36] watering that grass that you already have. Love it. Okay, so you guys are good on that one so far so
[5:37] good. Water. Three things we're grateful. Three things you're grateful for. Play offense against,
[5:38] something that's tricky, use that time. Okay. Now the third one, this is where I would have normally lost
[5:39] the past version of me who was a skeptic. I would have thought it was too cheesy, but this is the
[5:40] practice that most impactfully changed my life. You are going to write down a goal, but you are going to
[5:41] write it using the first person I call them first person goals. This is so completely important, and I can
[5:42] explain the neuroscience of why so much of our actions are actually being automaton, controlled by
[5:43] what we refer to in the coaching world as our beliefs. If you believe certain things, your actions will
[5:44] follow. If you can change that belief, your actions will follow. So by writing something you want to be
[5:45] true about you that isn't true yet, and this is what's so crazy, is another word for these are affirmations.
[5:46] But my clients, because my clients are all the skeptics, they refuse to do affirmations the second. I call
[5:47] them first person goals, they're willing to try them. And I think it's because you're admitting that it's a
[5:48] goal. I think that for some people to write down like I am beautiful, when you don't really mean that, yet
[5:49] lying, you feel like you're lying, or you feel like it's it's too cheesy, or whatever. You can't your brain is
[5:50] not buying in. But if you're writing down something like, I'm gonna use the I'm gonna stay on the
[5:51] marriage train for a second, because I was able to completely transform my marriage, and it's a big part
[5:52] of my story. Love you, honey. He's not listening. Ours don't listen either. But we love all of them. We
[5:53] love you. The goal that I would write is, you know, I have a soulmate marriage, not I married my
[5:54] soulmate. I have a soulmate level of marriage. I have an ease. There's an ease to my marriage. My
[5:55] marriage is playful. These are the types of goals that I would write down. When I wrote them down, they
[5:56] were not true yet, right? I wanted to start carving that new neural pathway that made that feel familiar to
[5:57] my brain. Our brain is always going to prioritize what feels familiar, because our brain is a energy
[5:58] conserving organ. So it's lazy. Yep, it's lazy, it's lazy. So we have to help it be lazy. So if it's never heard
[5:59] a phrase before, if it's never visualized something before, it's going to resist. If we can get some reps in
[6:00] on something and make it familiar, it is going to be easier to look for that. So now I'm going to tell you
[6:01] about my very favorite part of the brain, the reticular activating system.
[6:02] Emma
[6:03] Where is it located?
[6:04] Katie
[6:05] Well here.
[6:06] Emma
[6:07] I'm like, show me a chart.
[6:08] Katie
[6:09] I do have a chart. It is essentially our brain's curator and our brains filter. It is filtering so many things
[6:10] out all the time, because if we were to take in all the stimulus, we would implode. It would be way too
[6:11] much. It's doing a great job by curating what is only useful to us. So it's curating it based on our beliefs.
[6:12] So if I walk around with a belief that my husband and I have nothing in common, it is like this beautiful,
[6:13] dumb, loyal dog. It is going to go and fetch all the evidence to make that statement true for you
[6:14] because it is your subcontractor. It's not, it doesn't it's not biased. It's just going to listen to you. It's not
[6:15] that smart. It's not that smart. You want evidence that you don't have anything common. Here's another
[6:16] one, here's another one, here's another one. If I go to war with that belief, and I start writing every day,
[6:17] my husband, I have so much in common, it will also go and fetch the evidence to make that true for me
[6:18] too. You guys, both sentences are true, right? We have a lot in common. We have a lot and that's not in
[6:19] common. But what is a more helpful belief for you to walk around and source evidence for when I
[6:20] started opening my eyes to see how much my husband I did have in common, my heart was warmer to
[6:21] him, you know, and softer, and I was just more aware of all these things that I'd previously been
[6:22] automatically filtering out, because my brain was just doing what I told it to do, right? The most common
[6:23] examples like, you know, if you get a new car, you see that that car all over the street, but you never
[6:24] noticed that car before. My current favorite example is if you have a 13 year old boy, six, seven. Okay,
[6:25] right? We've heard this number forever, and now it's suddenly like very top of mind, like no one ever
[6:26] cared about it. And now it's this stuff happens all the time. This is the realest thing. It's a real thing in
[6:27] your brain, and you can actually hijack it, use it as a tool and make reality whatever you want it to be,
[6:28] essentially. So if you can do these three things in that order, you can start to actually train the muscle of
[6:29] seeing what is. It's always been there, but it's kind of filtering your life in a way that is more useful, more
[6:30] functional for your goals. And it works, and sometimes, you know, you almost have to realize what the
[6:31] old belief was. Was and kind of make it like, you kind of have to make it a little bit gross to you. So like,
[6:32] when I was struggling with alcohol, I'm like, what is it that I believe about alcohol that's making me still
[6:33] reach for this thing over and over and over again? So I wrote down, like, Okay, this, this must be what's
[6:34] true, you know, I'm I'm not fun without alcohol. I'm not, you know, sexy. I'm not that. You know, I wrote
[6:35] all of them down. I tried to make them as gross as possible, and then I'm like, Okay, well, what would
[6:36] be a more helpful belief? And then I wrote down almost, essentially the opposite, or at least neutralized
[6:37] it, right? Well, I'm I'm fun without alcohol. I was fun as a kid. I'm pretty fun. I was fun when I was
[6:38] pregnant. You know what I mean? I have evidence for that stuff. I wasn't fun all the time when I was
[6:39] pregnant, but could be 100% not fun for nine months. Oh, months long time, I'm sure there was not fun.
[6:40] And then you start putting that new, more helpful belief in, and you truly just have to get the reps and
[6:41] start looking for the evidence. So what's really wild is the more that I did this, the more it basically
[6:42] changed my default. Now I'm not saying those old beliefs go away forever. They become more like
[6:43] guest stars and not the leading role. So if my old belief was, my default belief was my husband, I have
[6:44] nothing in common. My new default is my husband. I have ton in common. And then that old one's like
[6:45] a little guest star that sometimes I just have to be like, nope, not. That's not where we're going with this
[6:46] today. We're like, all right, you got me on that one thing and going back now we're going back to the
[6:47] default. You know, one of my hardest belief changes, and I have changed many again, changing the
[6:48] default. This is not about perfection. This is about pattern interrupt. It's saying the old belief wasn't
[6:49] serving me anymore. I'm gonna try out this new one. I tried it out as a skeptic. I didn't know if it was
[6:50] gonna work. I can't believe it worked. It's It's amazing. If it can work on a skeptic, it can definitely work
[6:51] on anyone truly, that's kind of my whole vibe is, if I could do it, anyone could do it. I don't have, like, a
[6:52] very special brain or anything like that. I'm just willing to put the reps in, I suppose. So, one of my
[6:53] hardest belief changes was my old default was, if I find out that someone doesn't like me, I have to stop
[6:54] everything I'm doing and devote all my energy to winning over. No, no, that's my old default. My new
[6:55] default is I am no longer interested in winning over safe people, Unsafe people, right? Of course, like,
[6:56] of course, of course. That is a more helpful belief. But I had to get the reps in because, and I had to, I
[6:57] had to name what it was like. What was that that I was doing? Oh, gross, you know, to kind of gross
[6:58] yourself out by your old belief and really go head to headed with it. So this is a way that you can do this
[6:59] every single morning. I also sometimes do these in batches, right? Like, what are, you know, first
[7:00] person goals I could write for this entire quarter and then write them all down as if they're already true.
[7:01] It creates a visual in your brain. It honestly, it's like, it puts a pep in your step. Like, as you're reading
[7:02] these powerful statements, even though they're not currently true, you're imagining, what would it be
[7:03] like? What would life be like if this was true? And it almost always makes you, like, posture up and like,
[7:04] oh yeah, I like that. I love that my brain is now picturing that my brain's already working on it, even
[7:05] though I haven't even taken a step toward it yet. And do you feel like practical things? So we've got
[7:06] drink water. Start your day with drinking water. Then three things you're grateful for, then first person
[7:07] goals. So do you feel like these need to be in the morning? Can you break them up into the evening?
[7:08] Do you feel like you need to write it? Do you feel like you feel like you need to write it by hand? Can you
[7:09] type it? Just give us some you feel like don't matter. None of that matters. I like the idea of writing it,
[7:10] number one, because it's so fast, but also because it is, like one of my only analog things left that I
[7:11] have, yeah, but what's really cute too is because I also like journal and morning pages and artists way
[7:12] and all that. But these are only the positive things about your life. And what a beautiful journal to like,
[7:13] leave your kids like, they know that I'm doing this. And so they'll come over and be like, did I make one
[7:14] of the three things this morning, you know? And it's like they know what I'm doing. And so now, if you
[7:15] were to read like, leave any type of journal like, what a beautiful just snapshot of their childhood, every
[7:16] positive thing that happened, you know, and then your morning pages, that's where all the negative
[7:17] stuff happens. So no one needs to see those aren't for anyone else. You know what I mean. So I do like
[7:18] doing it just sort of quickly handwritten, and I doodle a little bit, and it's fun. Another really cool thing is,
[7:19] as the journal progressed, a lot of my first person goals moved up the line to things that I'm grateful for,
[7:20] which means that some of my goals started becoming true. So for example, like, I started writing, like, I
[7:21] am a writer. I write every day. Then, like, halfway through the year, when I got a literary agent, I started
[7:22] writing, I am an author. I am an author. And then, you know, when I got my book deal, I was able to,
[7:23] like, move that up in the line. Now I'm grateful because I'm an author. So it's like, you're watching your
[7:24] first person goals.
[7:25] Emma
[7:26] And now you are like, I'm a best selling author.
[7:27] Katie
[7:28] Which is good because you're if your growth plateaus, then, you know. So it's always good to have new
[7:29] first person goals. It's like, a helpful thing. So I do it when I first wake up. If I miss it for some reason, I
[7:30] just do it right before I start my work day again. It's five minutes. So it's like the easiest, most, just,
[7:31] simplest way to start this type of practice. And then if you're getting a kick out of it, you want to write
[7:32] longer. Go for it, of course. But it's always good to create habits based on your essentially worst, most
[7:33] rushed day, rather than a lot of us create habits and goals out of, like, our most ideal day, but we often
[7:34] don't have our ideal day, right? So it's better to have, like, a tiny goal that you can expand, versus a big,
[7:35] big goal that you feel like you're like, somehow losing if you truncate.
[7:36] Elsie
[7:37] I love that? Yeah, I definitely make my goals based on the best case scenario. Yeah, I get, like, really
[7:38] frustrated.
[7:39] Emma
[7:40] If everything goes according to plan. Here's all the things I'll get done in the day. And it's like, let's just
[7:41] fix this into like, what can you do when your kids are sick? What can you do?
[7:42] Katie
[7:43] Yeah, truly. Like, if it was the if everything went wrong, how could you move your body today, right?
[7:44] Yeah, I call it the minimum viable habit, MVH, and other times too, when I work with clients, because,
[7:45] you know, if I'm working with one on one clients, they'll assign themselves homework. By the next time
[7:46] we meet, they'll usually say something that sounds like the banner of like, I'm like, I know you're really
[7:47] motivated right now, when you're talking to me, you're literally talking to a motivational speaker. But
[7:48] what would be like, the gold, silver, bronze, like, what's the bronze version? So, you know? And they're
[7:49] all Olympic medals, so I may not take any of them, but that way you know that you have won, instead of
[7:50] just like this very lofty goal, that you can't do it. So this is, like, the easiest, quickest win, and it's great.
[7:51] And I have a blank journal. I brought it with me, but for like, two years of this, and my I'm a different
[7:52] person than when I first started these. And it's, it's beautiful, but also it's, it's a blank journal, so it's not
[7:53] like, there's, it's not dated. You're not looking at any days that you missed. You know, I probably did it, I
[7:54] don't know, 280 days of 365 that's a lot of days, you know what I mean? Versus like, going through a
[7:55] journal and being like, Oh, looks like I missed 100 times. It's like, I did it 280 times. That's That's
[7:56] amazing. That's like, a huge, huge win. So, yeah, don't get stuck in perfectionism. But I will say, the
[7:57] more you do it, the more these become your default, and positivity can become your default, and
[7:58] gratitude can become your default. And before you know you're living a life that you're not settling
[7:59] anymore. We don't settle anymore.
[8:00] Elsie
[8:01] Emma and I both paid money to for someone to professionally hypnotize us. But this sounds like it's
[8:02] kind of like the same thing that you can do to yourself every morning. So that's exciting for free.
[8:03] Emma
[8:04] It's a mini Hypnotize yourself every day. Yeah.
[8:05] Katie
[8:06] Well, to be honest, one of my certifications is in hypnosis, and I got five certifications again. Well, I also
[8:07] thought it would be really funny if a skeptic got if a skeptic became a hypnotist. So yeah, some of the
[8:08] things I did for the bit, but that was super fascinating. All hypnosis is self hypnosis, all of it so you were
[8:09] having somebody guide you to self hypnosis. Essentially, that's it. And all hypnosis is trying to do is
[8:10] rewire your beliefs faster. So when you are in that like theta wave state, your brain is more susceptible
[8:11] to neuroplasticity, so it's just like a It's another tool in the tool belt. But there's a lot of people that would
[8:12] never go do that, right? But this they might do. There's a lot of people that would never say an
[8:13] affirmation into a mirror. I was one of the I just don't think I still ever have. I'm sure it's great, but writing
[8:14] it didn't feel cheesy to me. So it's like, what is the version that is alignment with you, like, what is your
[8:15] threshold of cheese that you're willing to try? And then what's fun is maybe it'll work and maybe it won't
[8:16] work, but then you'll know. And I was shocked. I'm as shocked as anybody that I was able to change
[8:17] my default negativity to positivity, and this is just such a better way to live. So invest the time, and
[8:18] maybe it might work, but maybe it won't work, but hey, then you'll know it's an experiment.
[8:19] Elsie
[8:20] I'm so excited. I can't wait to do this. I want to do it with my kids. Have you ever tried this with children?
[8:21] Emma
[8:22] My kids will just start doing it. I can tell they just follow me around. That's the age they're at. So I'm like,
[8:23] Oh, they're probably going to do this too now, and we'll be like, I'm grateful for whatever weird thing
[8:24] they come up with.
[8:25] Katie
[8:26] You know, what's fun is my my kids have seen me do this, right? And sometimes maybe we'll do it, like,
[8:27] verbally on the way to something, or, like, how could we phrase that in a way that's as if it's already
[8:28] true, and all that kind of stuff. My husband called me once, and he's, like, before I went into my job
[8:29] interview, I just kind of jotted down, you know, I speak clearly, and the interview goes well, and I was
[8:30] like, you so excited, and he's even more skeptical than me, and the interview did go well, and it did, you
[8:31] know, it, I'm not saying like and then 1,000% of the time this all becomes true.
[8:32] Emma
[8:33] It's not making a wish with the fairy godmother. It's just like trying to change your life in a realistic way,
[8:34] right?
[8:35] Katie
[8:36] It's pretty realistic. And it's also like the science behind it is pretty strong that, you know, we sort of, we
[8:37] look for what we look for, you know what I mean, train yourself to look for the stuff that's more helpful,
[8:38] yeah.
[8:39] Emma
[8:40] And I think, like, I'm not much of a skeptic. I'm a pretty like, believe person, but I also am a person
[8:41] who's like, I'm like, What's the worst thing that could happen if I'm not scared of that, I will try it so. And
[8:42] I'm like, What's the worst thing that could happen if I drink a glass of water, say three things I'm grateful
[8:43] for, and first person goal set. I'm like, I feel a little silly, not scared of that immediately, going to try it.
[8:44] Yeah, that's like, what? I'm like, I'm like, who cares about skepticism. I don't even give a shit about the
[8:45] results. I'm just like, there's nothing to lose. So why not? Why wouldn't I try this? There's so much to
[8:46] gain, nothing to lose. Easy. Yay. So excited. Well, then she'll have to report back after a while. Yeah,
[8:47] because this is kind of a big commitment. You do it every day, yeah, and Katie has to too, whenever
[8:48] she becomes a New York Times, best times, best selling.
[8:49] Katie
[8:50] You know, I love writing first person goals that stretch me a little bit, because most of mine are still in my
[8:51] control. Most of my goals are, like, things that I completely control. So I will have to, like, stretch myself
[8:52] a little bit to do the ones, because I the result is none of my business.
[8:53] Emma
[8:54] There are a lot of factors out there.
[8:55] Katie
[8:56] My effort is my business, and I try to keep those sort of clear in my mind. But then I also want to open
[8:57] myself up for just crazy miracle stories. So you got to write some, you got to write some delusional stuff.
[8:58] Every now and then, most delusional people I've met do something kind of cool at least once, and I
[8:59] think it's because they're always trying delusional. It's true. So it's like, you know what's Michael Scott
[9:00] say? Right? You miss, he doesn't really say, is the way to Gratz, yeah, I love her that. Well, that is true.
[9:01] And like, again, if your brain defaults to what's familiar, your brain's always looking for evidence that,
[9:02] you know, things are possible. It's not going to try something that's completely impossible. So this is
[9:03] why it's really like, wonderful to read biographies of people who did, you know, wild stuff and it worked
[9:04] out. Because then your brain's kind of like, oh, it's not delusional if it worked for them. Or sometimes,
[9:05] yeah, if it works, sometimes, if it worked one time, you know, then give it a shot. Why not you?
[9:06] Emma
[9:07] Yeah that's what I think. And it's like, what do you have to lose? If what you have to lose is actually big?
[9:08] All right, think that through. Then, you know. But most of the time, it's not most of the time, I think the
[9:09] thing that holds me or other people back is like, I will look silly, I will feel sad, you know? And those are
[9:10] things. I'm not saying those don't matter. I'm just saying they're not I will die, or I will lose my house, or,
[9:11] you know, those are, those are, like, the big ones, but like the I will feel silly. I'm like, I have felt silly
[9:12] many times, and it does sting. I'm not saying it doesn't, but I lived through it, and so am I willing to live
[9:13] through it again for the chance it's something I really want? And the answer is yes. So it's true.
[9:14] Elsie
[9:15] I think the reason why most people don't try is they're like, what if I fail? And it's like, yeah, you might,
[9:16] you know.
[9:17] Emma
[9:18] Yeah, and it sucks. But what if you don't fail? What does that feel like?
[9:19] Katie
[9:20] Well, and often you end up pretty much exactly where you currently are, you know, which is medium,
[9:21] like, neutral.
[9:22] Emma
[9:23] There's that too, yeah.
[9:24] Katie
[9:25] The other thing too is like, you know, you'll at very least learn something. So say it is your job or your
[9:26] marriage, and you're like, Yeah, I am struggling to wrap my head around like, you know, say you're
[9:27] stuck in a place where you're like, I really am thinking a lot of negative things about my husband. I can't
[9:28] even write the positive ones. It's like, you could also aim for neutral, you know, aim for neutrality, and
[9:29] then see if you can't get to the positivity. Or this could be really revealing that something more serious
[9:30] needs to happen, a more serious conversation or an actual action. You know, if you can't think of a
[9:31] single good thing about your career, you know, that's really informative, so you can try it as a skeptic,
[9:32] and you may learn, like, if I can't change my brain, I need to change the thing. And that Grace says I
[9:33] need to change right my career, whatever, whatever it is. And another quote that really stuck with me
[9:34] during all this is whatever you're not changing, you're choosing, and it's just those types of things that
[9:35] put me back in the driver's seat of my own life. And instead of just feeling like I was in the passenger
[9:36] seat, going, I guess this is it. I guess I'll just, you know, kind of low key, be dissatisfied forever, yeah,
[9:37] getting in the driver's seat is, it's a lot more responsibility, but it's a lot more powerful, right? Yeah, it's a
[9:38] better story too, yeah, being the main character of your own life, who knew?
[9:39] Elsie
[9:40] Well, thank you for sharing your wisdom, and I have looked at the two years of journal page, have them
[9:41] right here. Show it to Emma. It really is so inspiring. So where can people find you? And is there
[9:42] anything else you want to say before we start jumping into our hot take?
[9:43] Katie
[9:44] Thank you so generous of you. They can find me on Instagram, okay today or okay today.com. And if
[9:45] you want to work directly with me, you can join the habit lab for a discount with the code mess for your
[9:46] listeners. Would love to see you in there. I lead a monthly group coaching session and then have my
[9:47] entire habits, course of how I changed my entire life in there that you can binge at your own pace,
[9:48] monthly themes, all this stuff. Come hang out with me. Get a motivational speaker in your pocket to
[9:49] keep you going strong. Elsie is in there. On occasion, she came in bit I am a member, yeah, and you
[9:50] were a guest once. We still have the replay of you leading a workshop in there. So lots of fun to be had
[9:51] in the habit lab. And then, yeah, I guess I would lead you. Leave you with this, which is, you know, I told
[9:52] people that I was doing this radical experiment of self improvement. I'm doing this one year radical
[9:53] experiment of self improvement, you know, where I improve myself, I improve myself. But I think what it
[9:54] actually became was a one year radical experiment where I believed in myself again. And it's amazing
[9:55] what can happen when you start rooting for you. So give it a try.
[9:56] Elsie
[9:57] Thank you for coming on. We will definitely invite you back when your book is coming out. It's going to
[9:58] be a book about habits. And do you think it's next year, the year? Do you know what year it's going to
[9:59] be?
[10:00] Katie
[10:01] I think it will hopefully be here for in time for the new year. But yeah, it's, it's habit hacks. After I created
[10:02] all these systems to make my life run on automatic, I started naming them and sharing them, and
[10:03] basically, just like I have everything from, like, a dish hack, I never think about dishes the rest of my life,
[10:04] like I just, it's like I have dish amnesia. They're always done to certain mindset, hacks, marriage, fight,
[10:05] hacks. I mean, I have hacked my whole life, because I don't want to think about these things now.
[10:06] Emma
[10:07] Katie was kind enough to let me read her book proposal, and it is the nonfiction book that I am most
[10:08] excited about. It is going to be incredible. Gonna be amazing. What I also really like about it just, you
[10:09] know, whatever is, a lot of times I feel like some of these things are built for productivity in the
[10:10] workplace, or just like, how to be like a great boss or something. And like yours is more your whole life.
[10:11] It's everything. So I'm like, I don't really want to just make money or just be a good mom. I'm doing all of
[10:12] those things all of the time, and I would like something that speaks to, you know, a more holistic view of
[10:13] what it's like to be a modern day woman or man, and I think your book is going to do that, and I'm really
[10:14] excited for it.
[10:15] Katie
[10:16] Wow, thanks, Emma. Yeah, just pick a hack, get it going, then stack a hack on top of that, and then
[10:17] soon your whole life will be automated. You mean the stuff you don't care about, right? And then what's
[10:18] fun is you start automating the stuff you do care about, like your friendships and your date nights and
[10:19] stuff like that. So it's been really fun to write and live and try. I'm trying it all so you don't have to.
[10:20] Emma
[10:21] I love it. Very excited. Let's hot take debate. Okay. This is from listener Amanda. She says white
[10:22] sneakers are legitimately the worst fashion trend ever, especially when paired with dresses, the only
[10:23] exceptions are Converse fans, Keds and classic white Pumas. I really like that. Amanda has so many
[10:24] caveats. I can tell she's one of our listeners. Yes, yes. Okay. She goes on pairing a chunky, blistering
[10:25] white pair of tennis shoes with a cute dress or otherwise thoughtful outfit completely distracts from the
[10:26] rest of the look. I just can't take it seriously. White sneakers should only ever be worn with street wear
[10:27] or sweat pants where they don't compete with the overall esthetic.
[10:28] Elsie
[10:29] Okay, Katie, you can go first.
[10:30] Katie
[10:31] I don't know if you can tell by the sound of my voice what I'm currently wearing. I am wearing the
[10:32] whitest of sneakers with a dress.
[10:33] Emma
[10:34] Okay, but are they converse fans, kids or classic white Pumas. Oh, dear, they're not.
[10:35] Katie
[10:36] Well, I don't know, I don't know. What a hot take.
[10:37] Emma
[10:38] I feel like, what Amanda's saying, though, is those super chunky I feel like, a couple years ago, it was
[10:39] really big. It's like, the super chunky, like, like, I saw a lot of like, Reebok, like, that kind of vibe.
[10:40] Elsie
[10:41] I know just what she's describing. And I Okay, here's my hot take. I think it's a millennial aversion. I do
[10:42] think that the Zoomers caveat things you have, like converse and bands, those are millennial shoes
[10:43] and kids, old lady shoes. So no, I mean, I think they I joke. You sometimes see a young person wearing
[10:44] converse, I don't know, ironically, and I'm like, How dare you? But yeah, no, I I do agree with it, but I
[10:45] admit that it is a millennial fashion trend thing I don't know. And I think that she does mean that the big,
[10:46] chunky ones that look like athletic shoes.
[10:47] Emma
[10:48] So I tried some on one time. I felt like I it made me look kind of stumpy, would be my review. And I just
[10:49] was like, Oh, this one just isn't for me.
[10:50] Elsie
[10:51] It's just like, genuinely not my style to wear athletic shoes with a dress.
[10:52] Emma
[10:53] I also feel like she kind of mentioned street wear or sweat pants. And I'm like, let me double click. I'm
[10:54] pretty sure that's most of what I wear. So I'm guessing I need shoes that, like, balance that out. It's for
[10:55] you know, so you can't do too much of one thing. I don't know, but yeah, I'm kind of with Amanda, but
[10:56] also I don't really care how other people dress. I'm like, yeah, wear whatever you want, what do I care.
[10:57] Elsie
[10:58] You look cute. Katie,
[10:59] Katie
[11:00] You know, Amanda.
[11:01] Emma
[11:02] I'm personally offended and I hate you.
[11:03] Katie
[11:04] I would love to challenge you every morning to write, I love white shoes and just see what happens.
[11:05] Just see what happens. No, I took a journey with white shoes. I was surprised by them, because they
[11:06] used to be sort of like the New Balance retired dad is wearing them. So then when young people were
[11:07] wearing them, I was like, Wait, what did I miss? I always assume I'm the one that's missing something
[11:08] when more than one person's doing something and they look cute, or their face is cute. So I can tell
[11:09] you're a cute person. I can tell you're on trend. Chose this, yeah. So I'm missing something. I'm always
[11:10] in a default to I have missed something, and then I Google it, and then I figure out what I missed. So it
[11:11] did take me a minute. I was like, we're wearing white sneakers. Okay? Also shout out back when you
[11:12] would only find retired dads wearing white sneakers if they wore white sneakers and had a white head
[11:13] of hair. Those are called Q tips, which I find fantastic. That's the cute I thought you were about to say, I
[11:14] am interested. I am down, because I just Yeah. The other journey I took was when I started wearing
[11:15] white sneakers, my sister would say, very lovingly, Are you a nurse? So that was a fun journey too,
[11:16] because then she got on board. Now she's wearing white sneakers, so it really trickled down in our
[11:17] family. But also, nurse is cute, like an old fashioned, like, candy striper. That's cute. It is, yeah, my real
[11:18] bias against it is, I'm like, I won't be able to keep them clean, and then it'll drive me kind of nuts. And so
[11:19] I'm just like, you need, you need something darker with a pattern or whatever. Because you're, you're
[11:20] just gonna freak out about this for no reason at all, other than just, it's annoying when you were like,
[11:21] they were so nice yesterday, and now they have a grass stain. And that's where I'm at. Yeah, that's
[11:22] true. It's a lot of high maintenance. You know, I have heard you guys say that you don't like to Yuck,
[11:23] other people's Yum, and I do agree with that. So if you like white shoes, absolutely something I've had
[11:24] to work on too, though, is sometimes I can be like the positivity police, and I will sometimes yum
[11:25] people's Yuck, too hard, and I almost make them feel like they can't have a negative opinion, because
[11:26] I'm, you know, just kind of like, always like, Be positive. Be positive. So Amanda, you're allowed to not
[11:27] like white shoes.
[11:28] Emma
[11:29] Yeah, and hard. She had a caveat. She had a whole thing. I'm like, Amanda's like, no, get out of here
[11:30] that outfit. Okay, I like it.
[11:31] Elsie
[11:32] I'll be on record agreeing, agreeing a little. What do you think agreeing a little.
[11:33] Emma
[11:34] Agreeing with Amanda? Yeah, I don't wear white tennis shoes.
[11:35] Elsie
[11:36] And Katie is on record as wearing white sneakers disagreeing. I
[11:37] Katie
[11:38] did know what the hot take was, and I decided to play offense.
[11:39] Emma
[11:40] Nice, yeah. Okay, and now it's time for the best part, a joke or a fact or a meditation with Nova.
[11:41] Elsie
[11:42] Hey, Nova. What do you have for us this week?
[11:43] Nova
[11:44] A joke.
[11:45] Elsie
[11:46] A joke. Okay, I'm ready.
[11:47] Nova
[11:48] Why do fish live in salt water?
[11:49] Elsie
[11:50] Why?
[11:51] Nova
[11:52] Because pepper makes them sneeze.
[11:53] Elsie
[11:54] Ooh, that's a good one. I love it.
[11:55] Nova
[11:56] Bye, bye.
[11:57] Elsie
[11:58] We would love to get more hot takes for future episodes. So email us anytime. You can also send
[11:59] podcasts suggestions, podcasts at a beautiful mess.com We'll be back next week.

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