# #285: Midlife Crisis But Make it Fun

An episode of [A Beautiful Mess Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1485472892), 2 Feb 2026, 53 min.

Audio: https://mgln.ai/e/498/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.libsyn.com/secure/abmpodcast/ABM_EP285_Final.mp3?dest-id=1624655

In honor of Emma's 40th birthday, this week we're doing an official midlife crisis episode. Our experiences didn't go exactly like the movies, and we have a lot to discuss. It's going to be fun! Thank you to this week's sponsor: Try their products and support our show by going to DrinkLMNT.com/ABeautifulMess Head to Talkiatry.com/mess and complete the short assessment to get matched with an in network psychiatrist in just a few minutes. Guilty Pleasure Treasure: Emma: Cinnamon dragons Elsie: Watch a period piece while on period You can support us by leaving us a couple of 5 star recipe reviews this week at abeautifulmess.com Have a topic idea for the podcast? Write in to us at podcast@abeautifulmess.com or leave us a voicemail at 417-893-0011.

## Transcript

[0:00] Elsie
[0:01] You're listening to the a Beautiful Mess podcast, your cozy comfort listen. In honor of Emma's 40th
[0:02] birthday. Happy birthday, Emma.
[0:03] Emma
[0:04] Thank you.
[0:05] Elsie
[0:06] This week, we're doing an official midlife crisis episode, because our experiences didn't go exactly like
[0:07] the movies, and we have a lot to discuss. I think this is going to be fun. Yeah, I love a midlife crisis.
[0:08] Emma
[0:09] I love a midlife crisis topic.
[0:10] Elsie
[0:11] I didn't have a crisis, but I did have an experience. Yeah? So I am excited. Okay, so before we jump in, I
[0:12] think we should discuss internal age. I think we've talked about this on the podcast before, but for
[0:13] anyone who is new or hasn't ever thought about their internal age. Okay, so my theory, so an internal
[0:14] age is just like the age you feel on the inside, and it can vary wildly. So for me, learn about this
[0:15] somewhere. I don't know. I don't Okay, we've talked about it quite a bit, and I associate you was
[0:16] teaching me about it. But then I'm like, did she tell me that was from a book I can't remember. Like, I
[0:17] know. What made me start thinking about it is that our dad told us that his internal age is, like, 20 years
[0:18] old, yeah, and our dad is about to turn 70, and he said that no matter you know what age he's ever
[0:19] been. He always still imagines himself as, like, almost college age, and that's what feels right in his
[0:20] head. So there's this sort of, like disconnect right when he looks in the mirror, or when he thinks about,
[0:21] you know, the timeline of his life and, like, things like that. So that's what internal age is. And then once
[0:22] I, like, was like, heard his, I was like, what? And then I started thinking, Well, what's mine? And I
[0:23] realized, I think I have an internal age that is older than what I am right now. And I think mine is like 60,
[0:24] and I think it's always been that way, because, and I think that this plays a big factor in how your midlife
[0:25] crisis goes. Because for me, I have never felt young, like even when I was in my early 20s, I was like,
[0:26] crocheting and, you know, like, I always had these sort of old lady hobbies. So yeah, talk about yours.
[0:27] Emma
[0:28] Same. I think that we've both always felt and I actually even think, I can't think of a specific for this, but I
[0:29] feel, like many times I've had friends even point out, not like you seem like an old lady, but just more
[0:30] like, you know, I think it gets worded more like you're an old soul, or, yeah, you know, you seem very
[0:31] mature for your age. You know, I don't know it's mostly been said in a positive way, but you also kind of
[0:32] notice. I especially noticed it when I was in college, in my 20s, early 20s, I was like, Oh, I don't want to
[0:33] do almost any of the activities that everyone My age is doing. I have no interest in it. In fact, I feel a lot
[0:34] of anxiety that I'm supposed to be doing this era, and I don't want to do any of this. I really want to be,
[0:35] like, making a student film with my friends and going to bed early and waking up and doing, you know,
[0:36] like, like, that was like, what made me feel like myself? But I was like, Oh, I'm supposed to be going out
[0:37] to bars and staying up till 2am and I really don't want to do that. So in that era, I didn't feel like my age,
[0:38] and I kind of think my age might be 40 or 50, because I really do feel like I'm coming into myself, or like
[0:39] I look in the mirror and I'm like, exactly. It's kind of how I feel.
[0:40] Elsie
[0:41] I think that's good. I actually think it is definitely a blessing to have an older internal age, because then
[0:42] you kind of get to, like, always be working up to something, instead of feeling like you're like, missing
[0:43] something that you've lost. So I feel very sorry for our dad's internal age. Like, I think that sounds rough
[0:44] and challenging, and I'm glad that to have an older one. So yeah, for our listeners, think about what you
[0:45] think your internal age is, because I do think this plays a big factor in how, like, crushing, slash exciting
[0:46] your midlife crisi will be for you.
[0:47] Emma
[0:48] And you know, I don't want to speak for our mom, because I don't know how she would answer this
[0:49] question, what your internal age, if she thought about it, but I would kind of wonder if hers might be
[0:50] something in her childhood, in part because she's one of the most joyful people I know. She finds a lot
[0:51] of joy and just everyday life, and like, building a life that she loves, you know, through kind of basic
[0:52] things and enjoying creativity and just stuff that I'm like, this is the wisdom of children. Like, don't get me
[0:53] wrong, kids are also kind of dumb. I'm raising them. They're crazy, but they have some wisdom to them,
[0:54] and that's it. Is the joyfulness of like everyday life and being present, enjoying creative things, or
[0:55] whatever your kids are into. But, and our mom has that, and so I always kind of wonder if, like, maybe
[0:56] she has an internal age, something like a child, which you would think, Oh, that's too bad, because then
[0:57] she. Of her whole adult life not being her internal age. But I'm like, I actually think it kind of served her
[0:58] really well if that was the case. So maybe it's more of a like harnessing your internal age to work for you
[0:59] in each era of your life, as opposed to being like, well, enjoy it when it comes around and then when it's
[1:00] over. Oh boy, you know, like, yeah, because I think that's definitely a pessimistic way to look at it. Very
[1:01] glass, half empty. So yeah, yeah, I bet it could work for you. A very whimsical person, I agree with. She
[1:02] is okay. So to begin with, did you experience so? Emma has just turned 40. Happy birthday. Thank you.
[1:03] Like last week was her birthday. So Did you experience any dread leading up to your 40th birthday, or
[1:04] even your 30th. Because I know some people say like my 30th was harder, or my 40th was harder,
[1:05] yeah, probably my 30th was harder. Because my 40th, I think I feel very much like life feels very full and
[1:06] busy, but my life is really what I want. And when I was 30, I was, like, starting to really long to have
[1:07] children. I didn't have them yet. It was beginning around that age. And so, you know, I think, like, I think
[1:08] it's good to be longing for things, by the way, it's not a bad thing, yeah, but I do think that was 30 felt
[1:09] more like, Oh, I'm hitting an age where I want this thing to be happening, and it's probably still not quite
[1:10] going to be happening for a little bit, you know, and 40 I'm like, I honestly have a hard time. I mean, I do
[1:11] have goals, and I do have things I'm looking forward to in life, but I kind of have a hard time thinking
[1:12] about wanting my life to be super, super different. Like, a few episodes ago, we were talking about your
[1:13] locket and how it opened on New Year's Eve, yes. And you put in your wildest wish, yes. And, you
[1:14] know, I was just thinking about what would be my wildest wish. And I'm like, honestly, I think it's just to,
[1:15] like, enjoy my kids as they get older. And I think I'm doing it. And I also have moments where I'm, like,
[1:16] needing a break, obviously, but like, I feel like I'm on track good. So 40 I felt no dread. I really feel like
[1:17] I'm coming into myself. I don't think I had a good midlife crisis to talk about, because I think I had mine
[1:18] in my mid 20s, whatever, I kind of gave up on acting and decided it wasn't what I wanted. And I moved
[1:19] back home from LA I think that was like a huge and I also went through a breakup at that time,
[1:20] someone I'd been with for a few years and I really, really cared about, and all of that was just much
[1:21] more my life was up ended. And so I kind of think I went through my I guess people call it a quarter life
[1:22] crisis when you're like 25 or 27 or whatever. So I think that was a bigger time for me for dread and
[1:23] sadness and like trying to redefine myself 40, I feel like I'm like, Yep, I'm doing it, and I'm having a
[1:24] birthday today. I just Yeah, so good. Did you feel dread?
[1:25] Elsie
[1:26] Okay, no, but I did have a depression era that lasted a few years. And I actually can pinpoint the exact
[1:27] moment it started. Okay, it I think I was probably 38 so it was like coming up to it at the time. And our
[1:28] friend Steffi posted this blog post that I like this has been a while ago, so I don't want to quote it wrong,
[1:29] but it was something to the effect of, like, all of her biggest dreams were behind her. Like she was
[1:30] realizing that, like, the things she had set out to do since she was like, 20, you know, like, I want to have
[1:31] kids, I want to get married, I want to buy a house. I want to have this kind of career. The you know, the
[1:32] goals you set for yourself at that age were behind her. And when I read that, and I realized it, it was
[1:33] also in a time when our business, a beautiful mess, was kind of having we were kind of coming up on a
[1:34] time when we knew we were going to have to make some tough decisions and be in a time of
[1:35] transition. We weren't quite there yet. So it was a little bit of a scary time too for that. So I think the
[1:36] things combined, and my therapist actually thought a lot of it was like adjustment disorder, which it can
[1:37] be like depression caused by any type of big change in your life. So for me, it was like my business was
[1:38] kind of ending. Emma had exited from the app company. I was ready to exit from the app company, but
[1:39] not able to, which is a hard place to be in. Yeah. And then I realized that our so during covid, our
[1:40] adoption program, the China adoption program, closed permanently, and it was kind of a slow thing, but
[1:41] like, we all knew very early on that it was likely to happen, right? And so we made the we had, kind like
[1:42] my husband already felt like two kids and we're done, but I didn't feel that way. So like accepting that
[1:43] that like we were no longer going to adopt more kids. It's like, that was very hard for me. The last time
[1:44] we went to China, when we adopted Marigold, I did not admit to myself at any point that it was our last
[1:45] time, right? And I was just wasn't ready. And I think a lot of people kinb of struggle with that.
[1:46] Emma
[1:47] I've had a lot of friends talk about, like, cleaning out baby clothes that they had stored away and and,
[1:48] like, it's been a couple years since they even would have considered having another kid, but it's like
[1:49] they didn't get rid of those clothes yet, and so that it like, brings it up in a very final way, which sounds
[1:50] like you're just getting rid of clothes. You could always buy more clothes, yes, but it just puts it in your
[1:51] face, gives you that moment of like you're not doing this you thought, you thought it was a possibility,
[1:52] and the doors closed and that's, that's a weird thing to face.
[1:53] Elsie
[1:54] So it was just kind of a lot of things all at once. And at the same time, my husband's business was, like
[1:55] skyrocketing like a rocket, yeah. And my outer space, yeah, and my business was kind of slowly dying,
[1:56] Emma
[1:57] That rocket did not launch. It was a bad day.
[1:58] Elsie
[1:59] No, it had been orbiting. It was coming for years. Yeah, it was, it was time. So anyway, during that, that
[2:00] transitional time, and it did take a couple years, I made the decision that when I had the chance, I was
[2:01] going to begin a new career. And I decided the the new career I wanted to pursue was writing, so I had
[2:02] to start retraining for that. I did all that. And pretty much immediately, I would say, actually, I would say
[2:03] the first year was hard, difficult. Because I I feel like, you guys can't tell I, like, have a really hard time
[2:04] saying the word hard because of the Michael Scott, that's what she said. Like, I try to replace it. You
[2:05] think of erections every time? Yes? Yep, every time. Okay, okay. So I had a really difficult time speaking
[2:06] of being 40 year olds moving on, yeah, so and then beginning a new career when you have been
[2:07] successful for a long time, is a big challenge. So going back to the place of being a beginner, I now look
[2:08] back and say, This is the best thing that ever could have happened to me. Like it was like a forced,
[2:09] humbling experience, but it was also a catalyst for growth and an opportunity to take on a new
[2:10] challenge that's like a ladder that goes on forever into the clouds, which I really wanted that in my life.
[2:11] So all the things turned out well, but, but, yeah, I did. I had, I had several years where I was a little bit
[2:12] miserable, I was really confused. And also during that time, people were constantly asking, yeah, over
[2:13] and over and over, like, Are you about to quit podcasting? Is your blog dying? Are you quitting the blog?
[2:14] Are you quitting this? You're quitting that. Why are you doing this? And then you guys kind of a lot of
[2:15] famous, a lot, yeah, a lot of people do. And still, like, in the the other day in a parking lot, someone
[2:16] came to me and they're like, oh, yeah, my niece used to love your but, you know, people say that to us
[2:17] all the time.
[2:18] Emma
[2:19] Yeah, I used to love our blog, too. Thanks. Like, yeah, it's fine.
[2:20] Elsie
[2:21] We have like a very successful 2000 10s, and it's not the 2010 2026, right? So anyway, I did have a
[2:22] little bit of a weird time, but it wasn't like what I expected it to be, because I wasn't trying. I was actually
[2:23] not trying to hold on to my youth. I mean, I will say I will always buy something crazy, but I wasn't like
[2:24] buying anything like, you know, in movies, it's always like, they buy like, a convertible or a motorcycle.
[2:25] It's usually men or have an affair or what else, like I feel like, for women, it's like, they try to get super
[2:26] hot. Get super hot. Like, job, yeah, boob job. They go blonde, and they'd never gone blonde before, you
[2:27] know, something like that in the movie, yeah, dye your hair. I do dye my hair.
[2:28] Emma
[2:29] I've been trying to be hot for a long time.
[2:30] Elsie
[2:31] Yeah, no problem with anything like that. But, like, yeah, it but it was, but I don't feel like I'm like,
[2:32] clinging on to anything. But I did feel like, oh my god, I only planned half my life. I only planned enough
[2:33] goals and challenges to last me till I'm 40, and now, like, I will likely live till I'm 80, you know, or, you
[2:34] know, if the average age is, like, 70, something, right? Like, or somebody I don't know something like
[2:35] that like, so I think that's a lot of what I want to talk about in this episode is like, if you haven't planned
[2:36] the second half of your life, the good news is you have a giant opportunity ahead of you. It is very it can
[2:37] be, yeah, sad in some ways, but a huge opportunity for growth as well. So once I realized like there's
[2:38] actually a lot of really cool ahead, then I started making new plans, making new goals, retraining for a
[2:39] new career. And things have been like kind of slowly, incrementally inching up ever since for the old
[2:40] mental health.
[2:41] Emma
[2:42] Yeah. Yeah, I also think I'll just put this out there. I think it's okay to only plan half your life, yeah? Like, I
[2:43] think it would be impossible to try to teach a high schooler to think ahead past 40, like, there's just no
[2:44] chance. Yeah? Like, it's just not gonna happen. So I think it's really normal. I just think that we're getting
[2:45] better as a society. We're talking more about, and now you do the other half, you know, like, and now
[2:46] you you plan that second half, and you do other things. And that's part of what we're trying to do on this
[2:47] podcast. And I'll also say so this is kind of switching gears a little bit. So if I think about my first 40
[2:48] years, there was childhood, we were literally just like starting to live and be a little tiny human, and then
[2:49] you're kind of learning everything through play. So childhood, okay, short way of saying it childhood,
[2:50] then you have kind of like, figuring out a career, let's call that the 20s, and then you have, like, doing
[2:51] your career, and then maybe it's kind of starts to fade a little 30s, and now you're at 40. So it's like,
[2:52] Okay, does that mean I kind of look at it this way? Does that mean I get to have another childhood right
[2:53] now? Because I kind of have time, don't I, like, if I want to do the whole thing again, and if I get to
[2:54] pretend that I'm going to live to 80 or beyond or whatever? Because no one knows any of that. But if so,
[2:55] then, like, kind of have time to, like, around a little bit right now, don't I to, like, be a baby and, like, learn
[2:56] everything again, and like play. So I'm kind of giving myself that like mentality of like, I'm not an actual
[2:57] child, so I already get to use my adult brain and all the experiences I've already accumulated up to this
[2:58] point. But I do think there's space to kind of play and figure out something new and enjoy it, and like,
[2:59] just have weird hobbies, which was a lot of my childhood that I remember of like being a like, preteen,
[3:00] and then middle school and high school was just weird hobbies, doing really weird things that I thought
[3:01] were cool and that I think were cool, but they didn't go anywhere. They didn't mean anything. They
[3:02] were just kind of playing. And I'm like, you have space for that because you did it before, and you get to
[3:03] do it again, assuming you live. And I'm going to just go ahead and assume that, yeah, so yeah. And I
[3:04] think that's like, at least for me, maybe other people don't like that idea, but for me, that makes me feel
[3:05] very hopeful and excited about the future, where it's like, there's not pressure to be a 30 year old again
[3:06] right now. There's pressure to play and to learn and to grow right now. So do that for like, 10 years if
[3:07] you want.
[3:08] Elsie
[3:09] And I've always thought that parenting is a forced second childhood anyway, like, if you do relive a lot of
[3:10] your favorite experiences, like, right now, I'm every week begging my kids, when are we going to watch
[3:11] Jurassic Park together? You know, like, and that is definitely just like, straight up, that I want to relive
[3:12] my own fourth grade self.
[3:13] Emma
[3:14] I've been forcing the Bernstein bears, the Bernstein bears, however you say it, onto my son, and it's
[3:15] going great for me.
[3:16] Elsie
[3:17] Yeah, yeah. I think it's a beautiful thing to think, like, okay, there is time. There's time enough to do a
[3:18] whole nother career. If you just separate out your career years and you count them as, like, ages 20 to
[3:19] 60, then we're smack in the middle, yeah, of the career years, which is very cool. And I personally plan
[3:20] to not retire. I'm going to Martha Stewart myself, yeah, straight into my grave. Yeah, and it's going to be
[3:21] amazing.
[3:22] Emma
[3:23] So yeah, yeah, because I think you can kind of build it into some of it, at least a good chunk of the work
[3:24] can be playful and fun, or at least that's what we've been working towards our whole career. So, and
[3:25] some of it's work, yes, but some of it's really fun and playful, yeah. So why would I stop working?
[3:26] Because I that's like, saying I would stop playing. I'm like, what would I even do all day? So, yeah, no,
[3:27] thanks. Okay, so did you change anything because of turning 40? Like, I think we've already
[3:28] established we didn't really have, like, a full midlife crisis. But what was your version of a midlife crisis?
[3:29] For You is the question, yeah, I really don't think this is not good for this episode, but I really don't think I
[3:30] have anything as far as turning 40. I do feel like my big thing, and I've talked about it is I never really
[3:31] plan to stay home with either of our kids, and that has been the bigger thing for me. Oh yeah, over
[3:32] turning 40, and I'm right now halfway through. So we plan to keep our youngest home for at least a
[3:33] year, so until he turned two. He turned two this summer. So I'm I'm smack in the middle, I'm halfway
[3:34] through that, and I feel like I am, like, Finally, used to it. I was saying this at our book club to our friends.
[3:35] I feel like I am now finally, like, Okay, this is, this is what my life is like, and I'm okay with it. And I feel
[3:36] like the first six months of it, I was really like, This day was good, this day was bad. This. Day was
[3:37] terrible. This day was good. This day was hard, you know, like, it was just like, back and forth, back and
[3:38] forth, trying to adjust to it, trying to figure out how to make it work. For me, something's worked great.
[3:39] Something's gonna work, you know. And now I feel like I'm in a space where I'm like, okay, but it's
[3:40] gonna change again once he goes back to pre K or daycare or whatever. We decide we may not do
[3:41] this, and we'll see. But, you know, and I think that's been a much bigger in part because it was
[3:42] something that I never planned to do. It wasn't a desire of mine. So it's been, you know, fitting it in,
[3:43] yeah, I guess fitting it in in a way that I wasn't, I just wasn't planning, yeah, I think that that's been a
[3:44] bigger crisis for me, but the sides of that, it's hard to even talk about it, because I love my kids and I
[3:45] love being a mom. So it's a strange two sided thing where I'm like, I love working and I love being a
[3:46] mom, and those two things can't really happen at the same time, like almost at all with the age my kids
[3:47] are right now. They just need too much, especially the little one. So it's just not in maybe some people
[3:48] have different careers where it kind of can coincide, but like mine, doesn't, it just doesn't. Because I
[3:49] can't sit on the computer and focus while my little kid play. He's not big enough to do that. It just doesn't
[3:50] work. So yeah, it's like I have these two deep values, and they're very much at odds with each other at
[3:51] this stage of my life, so I just have to remember that. And it's not a bad thing. It's just odd. It's just like,
[3:52] and there is no balance to it. It's just a you will lose one of your values, but you will get one that is it,
[3:53] that is it the whole time, yeah. And I think that has been much harder for me. That has been much more
[3:54] of a crisis than turning 40. Turning 40, to me, it was like, exciting, fun, somewhat mundane, somewhat
[3:55] like, yeah. Always saw this coming. Feel good about it. And staying home with our youngest was much
[3:56] more like, whoa. I'm not very good at this. How do I make this work, you know, and that's been a much
[3:57] bigger thing for me. I don't know if I'm explaining this well.
[3:58] Elsie
[3:59] No, I think that I definitely relate with it. Because of covid. I had toddlers during covid, and so I had a
[4:00] stay at home era that was not by choice, and it was challenging, for sure, and kind of a survival mode
[4:01] type of thing.
[4:02] Emma
[4:03] Kind of even worse too, because I can take him places, and you really, you know, can't go anywhere
[4:04] because it's the pandemic.
[4:05] Elsie
[4:06] Okay, so for me, my version of a midlife crisis quote, one of my favorite things was, like, when I was
[4:07] turning 40, my brother was like, did you find your midlife crisis yet I was like, actually, yes, I started
[4:08] when I was 38 so yeah, I did, just planning a completely new career. I always hoped and dreamed that I
[4:09] could do, like a second act career. I loved the idea of it since I was very young. And I like stories, you
[4:10] know, Emma and I talk all the time about RL Stein's story of starting, I think it was actually the fear
[4:11] straight books first, and then it goes just kind of like a whim thing in his 40s. And like Martha Stewart,
[4:12] you know, not starting her career till she was in her 40s. Like, yeah, all of that, I think, is great and
[4:13] beautiful. And so I always wanted to do that. And I thought it would be straight art, like I always
[4:14] planned, it would be just painting. And I am still really into painting, and I am still painting for my gallery,
[4:15] but I'm, at the moment, I'm actually, like, even more obsessed with writing novels, and I think I needed
[4:16] something that, like, it was just such a big challenge to learn how to do it. It's like, one of those things
[4:17] that is a lot harder than it looks. And once I figured that out, I was like, upset for like five minutes, and
[4:18] then I was like, happy for like three years. You know, just like learning it also, it's been a fun time. Okay,
[4:19] so did you learn anything new about yourself from turning 40 or preparing to turn 40, or, I don't know,
[4:20] aging in general.
[4:21] Emma
[4:22] I don't think so I really think I'm just like continuing because I think this is the age I was kind of meant to
[4:23] be. So I'm like here I am.
[4:24] Elsie
[4:25] Okay, so well, my nugget of wisdom is like that we all have different fears. So I have some people close
[4:26] in my life who are very afraid of aging, very afraid of death, and that is like a very normal, valid fear. But
[4:27] I actually realized that I'm not really afraid of aging. I can visualize myself like we've done the like 20
[4:28] years in the future, visualization a lot. I love that self. I love her. I want to be her. I'm like, I'm happy to
[4:29] spend these next 20 years becoming her. And I don't think that I am particularly afraid of death. I think.
[4:30] Get it. You know, dying is always scary, but like to an extent, but I think I accept that in some ways, it's
[4:31] actually pretty boring, because everyone in the world dies. It's the most normal, the most common
[4:32] thing, it's just and to, like, deny it, or to hope that it doesn't happen to you, I personally think is kind of
[4:33] stupid. So I like, I like the idea of just sort of like being at peace with it, and so, yeah, aging, I'm gonna
[4:34] get old, I'm gonna die. I feel like, fine with those things, but the thing that like makes me itch is the idea
[4:35] of having regrets, like, 20 years in the future, when we're our parents age. I don't want to regret choices
[4:36] I made in this decade. And the other thing is, I have a crippling fear of retirement, like, I do not want to
[4:37] retire. And I made that decision recently. I was like, okay, like, the way that some people realize they
[4:38] never want to have kids, I realized, okay, I'm never going to retire. I'm just going to work until I can't
[4:39] anymore, like, and it doesn't make me feel bad. Like, you know, like, I think some people look forward. I
[4:40] know a lot of people who are doing the like, fire, you guys know, like, financial independence, retire
[4:41] early, the acronym. So they're like, they're trying to retire early, and I'm trying to have retire my
[4:42] retirement savings completed by a certain time, but I'm not planning to retire. And I think that that's kind
[4:43] of like ironic, but it's the same thing. It's like, the reason why I want to have that is so that I don't have to
[4:44] save anymore, like, so it'll just be easier when you, like, don't have to save you. Don't have that extra
[4:45] pressure on yourself anymore. You have more freedom. But I think that with that freedom, I would still
[4:46] choose to work, because I love working, and yeah, next week, when we do our core values, I'll get
[4:47] more into it. But I realized, ah, it's an integral, integral part of who I am. It's, it's like, yeah, how I was
[4:48] born. It's a part of my brain that cannot be rewired.
[4:49] Emma
[4:50] Yeah, I don't really think of working as paying bills anymore. I think of it as, this is something I want to
[4:51] do. This is how I want to fill my time. Yeah. And in that sense, I think of work as lots of different things.
[4:52] You know, I think of my things I do for like keeping my house clean and buying groceries and cooking
[4:53] dinners. I wouldn't call that work, like if someone said, what do you do for a living? I wouldn't say that,
[4:54] because I know that's not what people mean. But in my brain and in my own internal life, I do think of
[4:55] that as like, this is one of the things I do that fills my time. It takes up quite a bit of time, and it means
[4:56] something to me. I could stop cooking dinner every night, you know, I have to. I have to air fry stuff with
[4:57] kids, don't get me wrong. But like, you know, I could do a lot less than what I do if I wanted to, but I
[4:58] don't want to. I like this. I value it for a number of reasons, and it's not going to change when I quote,
[4:59] unquote, retire. Like, there isn't, like, I don't know, I don't even really think of retirement at all anymore.
[5:00] It just isn't, yeah, and I know that's unrelatable, like I know talking about that is there's a financial piece
[5:01] of that that's extremely unrelatable to people. And I don't want to be unrelatable, but I also feel like our
[5:02] podcast is our actual, you know, online friends. So I'm like, well, here's thing. I don't really think about
[5:03] that, because right now, I spend a lot of time raising our kids. I don't get paid for that. Our capitalist
[5:04] society doesn't pay women to raise the next generation. But it's important, yeah, and it's very important
[5:05] to me, obviously, of my children, and, you know, so I think of it as a part of my, yeah, as a part of that.
[5:06] But when people ask me, what do you do for a living? I don't necessarily say that. I might say that I stay
[5:07] home with our kid, but I, you know, I know people don't mean that, and I understand. So it's fine as a
[5:08] society, talking to people out in the world, I don't mind saying something kind of different than what I
[5:09] believe, because I know that. I know there's, you know, agreed upon language that we all have. But you
[5:10] know, to me, it's not just about money anymore. It's about happiness, it's about my family. It's a lot of
[5:11] things that you know, that I value.
[5:12] Elsie
[5:13] Yes, I completely agree. So, midlife crisis, what's the best that can happen? I love the whole like, what's
[5:14] the best that can happen like perspective shift in life, I think it's pretty much always worth contemplating
[5:15] what's the best possible outcome. So I think that when it comes to the planning the second half of your
[5:16] life, first of all, I think it's a beautiful thing to remember and list out all the things that you have now that
[5:17] you used to want. And I know, for me this week, I know you're not on Instagram, but this week on
[5:18] Instagram, one of the things is like 2016 because it was 10 years ago. So people are putting, like, all
[5:19] their pictures from 2016 up and talking. About all the things they miss and love from that time. And it's
[5:20] cute. It's really sweet. But for me, when I went back, I was like, I already didn't, I already didn't want to.
[5:21] I'm just like, not a like, go back, and I'm kind of not either. Like, I was already like, I don't want to do this.
[5:22] But then I finally was like, the curiosity was getting the better of me, and I was like, Oh, I'm just gonna
[5:23] scroll back and see what that year was. And I kind of knew already what it was going to be, but it was
[5:24] like, even like looking back on it, like, when I looked at 2016 like I had pictures traveling around, like we
[5:25] were still doing a lot of traveling at that time for our blog sponsors and stuff, and we had a lot of cool
[5:26] things going on. Our app, a color story, launched that year. We had some cool things for a beautiful
[5:27] mess. I went on lots of trips with my husband, but the only thing I could remember when I was like,
[5:28] scrolling through it and looking at it, was that that was the year we started our adoption, and that all I
[5:29] did was, like, cry in my car that I wanted it to go faster, and that I wished I would have started sooner,
[5:30] and that I was just so like, I think that I waited until sort of, like, the day after I was like, fed up and
[5:31] ready to be a mom, to like, begin a two year process. So that's why it was, like, so difficult, that year
[5:32] was really difficult. The following, pretty much whole year was difficult. And then in the following August,
[5:33] we were matched with our daughter, and in 2017 in December, we were able to travel and become a
[5:34] family of three. So yeah, it's a beautiful thing is. But yeah, like, I couldn't, I couldn't put together a
[5:35] highlights reel at all from that time, because the only thing that mattered to me was, you know, and so I
[5:36] did give me this moment of like reflection, of just being so thankful to be where I am now with my two
[5:37] children. And now I do think two is the perfect number, now that I came to peace with it and everything,
[5:38] and it's just all, yeah, so great. And then also being a godmother to Emma's two sons. And, you know,
[5:39] we have lots of nieces and nephews and lots of children in our lives, and it's beautiful. It's beautiful part
[5:40] of life. Okay, anyway, what's the best that can happen? Is our topic. So also, I will say, play to your
[5:41] strengths. So I was just going on this long rant about how I never want to retire. Maybe that like, maybe
[5:42] that's not you. Maybe all you want to do is retire, and that's cool for you. Great life. Got a big goal, then
[5:43] exciting. Make your own list that plays to your strengths, your desires, your deepest dreams. You know
[5:44] the parts that make you feel inspired to live a whole nother life.
[5:45] Emma
[5:46] Maybe your goal is to buy a sports car. You should do it. You should make a plan and do it in a healthy
[5:47] way. And you should absolutely do it. Everyone's goals and dreams can be different from ours, sure.
[5:48] Fine. No, I love it. I love it. It's great. Two thumbs up, yeah. I'll also say as like, kind of a side note. And
[5:49] this is true of multiple friends of mine. And I'm not going to say anything too specific, because I don't
[5:50] feel it's necessary, but I have had multiple friends who had a really hard time at this kind of era. Their
[5:51] midlife crisis hit them really, really hard and really, really sad, painful ways. And if that's you, that's
[5:52] actually much more normal than I think what I'm experiencing. And here's some things that helped them
[5:53] therapy, talking to their family about it, being really honest about the things they feel like they're missing
[5:54] out on, or the things they regret, and putting in a plan in place to change their life. And if you haven't
[5:55] tried therapy, you really, really should. Everyone should try it, see what you think. Also, some of them
[5:56] like going back to church helped. I'm not telling you to do that. I'm saying if you're thinking about it, you
[5:57] should do whatever might help you to be happy. I think that sometimes we shut doors when we're
[5:58] younger and we need to open them again when we're older, and that might mean all sorts of different
[5:59] things for you in just be open to it, because everyone deserves to be happy, and you can be happy at
[6:00] every age, and you should be, yeah, and that can be hard, so, you know, navigate your way through it.
[6:01] And I've also had multiple friends who, after trying a number of other things, they also tried medications,
[6:02] and that helped them a lot. And some people are on those for a very short amount of time. Some
[6:03] people on them for long periods of time. You don't need to worry about that. You should just be open to
[6:04] finding a path to happiness because you deserve it.
[6:05] Elsie
[6:06] I would also add setting a bigger reading goal. I think setting a bigger reading goal is always a thing you
[6:07] can do when you're having a low season, yeah, to like, sort of like, give yourself a little lifeboat to the
[6:08] last season.
[6:09] Emma
[6:10] Get lost in fiction, man, that's always some good. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, you're feeling anything.
[6:11] Elsie
[6:12] Yes, yeah, okay, yeah. And also my husband, he's he had a little bit of a midlife crisis. I'm not gonna,
[6:13] I'm not talking about his stuff on here, yeah, but I will say that he did. Decided to start doing charitable
[6:14] work this past year, and he's like, participated in two different things, and it's changed his life
[6:15] significantly. It's kind of like given him a new purpose, and just, it's a really beautiful thing, yeah, so if
[6:16] you're even thinking about that kind of stuff, like, there's no harm in just trying it and just like, see what
[6:17] it's like.
[6:18] Emma
[6:19] Yeah, it's kind of like, I feel like a lot of Christmas movies is what coming to my mind. Like, it's a
[6:20] beautiful life and Scrooge. It's like, midlife crisis can kind of be like, the best thing that can happen since
[6:21] we're talking about that is you might kind of realize you have a few things that you're missing, or you
[6:22] have a few regrets that are like starting but the great news is you still have time, yes, but it might be
[6:23] like, hard to look at that and be like, Oh, I have to now change. And change can be scary. It can be
[6:24] uncomfortable. It can be confusing, like, if you don't know how to do it, but this is like, your chance to do
[6:25] it, and then you'll go through much more of your life, and you'll get to the end, and you won't have these
[6:26] huge regrets. You'll have, like, Oh, yeah. And then I changed. I started this new thing. I started doing
[6:27] some charitable stuff. I started, you know, focusing more on myself or my family, or I changed my
[6:28] career, and that led to so much more happiness. Yeah, I had a hard couple years where I had to retrain,
[6:29] or I had to start from the bottom, but then I had this whole career that I still got to enjoy, like, you know,
[6:30] this is a chance to, like, turn over a new leaf, or however you want to look at it, so don't miss it, because
[6:31] it's great. You know, it could be a little tough to look at or, you know, it's hard to be honest with yourself
[6:32] at times, and it's hard to change, but you can do it, and you deserve a great life.
[6:33] Elsie
[6:34] Yeah, I think that the part where you admit that you're not happy or that you do regret something is very
[6:35] painful, and I have, like, a tendency to, like, turn away from painful, you know, self reflection. But I think
[6:36] that you can reframe this part of life as an opportunity to grow, you know, have your own special mirror
[6:37] moment where you get to have your own transformation. That's whatever you choose. And I yeah, I
[6:38] think it's beautiful. Okay, so you already kind of gave the pep talk for listeners dreading a birthday
[6:39] change is hard. We Yeah, we will hold your hand through it. You can do it. You can email us. I'm already
[6:40] 43 so I like, I'm, feel like I'm actually, like, way past this. And I'm like, super old, yeah, basically, I kind of
[6:41] feel like I am, like, I feel like I'm, I will say, like, for five years ago me when I was in the depths of
[6:42] sadness, like the the biggest depression I've had in my life. I'm so glad that I kept going, and then I did
[6:43] the step by step by step, to try to change all the little things in my life that were bothering me, and some
[6:44] of them were easy to change, and took, you know, one decision, and some of them were very difficult,
[6:45] and took a whole year of trying. And that's okay. Here's my little beautiful thing that I want to share. So
[6:46] since I got through this, I was like, I've been feeling more proactive for the future. And, yeah, I can
[6:47] visualize my future self now. So I already planned my 50th birthday gift to myself. Okay, do you want to
[6:48] hear it? Yeah, I probably told you before, but so I'm saving it, and I will not do this until after my 50th
[6:49] birthday, but I decided I really want to after I learned to write novels, and I kind of want to, like, write,
[6:50] like, five in my 40s. So that's, that's what I'm doing, at least, yeah, at least five. I'm on that, so I don't
[6:51] want to rush into this, but when I do turn 50, I'm going to take screenwriting classes, and I'm going to
[6:52] write screens also, additionally so. And it makes me feel like I'm looking forward to the future, to know
[6:53] that I have this thing I've always wanted to do that's just like out there a little bit ahead, and I'll get there
[6:54] when I get there, and it'll be waiting for me when I do and I won't have to have that dreadful feeling
[6:55] again that all the dreams I had set up for myself had already passed. Yeah, you know, because now
[6:56] there's like new ones that are out there as like little mile marker signs on the highway. So I think it's a
[6:57] beautiful thing if you can do that.
[6:58] Emma
[6:59] I love it. That would go on a big trip too.
[7:00] Elsie
[7:01] And then I have been planning this like luxury train trip through Europe. Yes, yeah. We want to go the
[7:02] one that we would like to go on. I think everyone tell me, please write to us if you've been on a luxury
[7:03] train through Europe. But I think we're going to do the one that's called the symptom, Orient Express.
[7:04] There's different routes, but it goes through a whole bunch of countries, and it is very fancy. It's
[7:05] expensive, so I feel like we'll have to save up and take it like, you know, it makes it more of a milestone
[7:06] trip together. It's not really something our husbands want to do. It's something we want to do together.
[7:07] Emma
[7:08] They do no.
[7:09] Elsie
[7:10] So I can just see us on our on our little train, with our little cocktail, with our little coffee.
[7:11] Emma
[7:12] Writing our books, talking to each other about books or writing.
[7:13] Elsie
[7:14] Reading, playing checkers, I don't know, but it brings me so much joy to plan things like that, too. I love
[7:15] it always, forever.
[7:16] Emma
[7:17] Yeah, I'm going to go to Antarctica one day. I'm just waiting, basically, until my kids get a little older. So I
[7:18] don't want to be gone for it's kind of like a two week trip thing. I just can't do it at their age right now. So
[7:19] I'm like, one day though, I'm going, I'm gonna see those penguins. I'm gonna see it. So, yeah, excited.
[7:20] Elsie
[7:21] I love that for you, I can't wait. Okay, well, I hope that this episode was helpful. If anyone is worried
[7:22] about turning 30 or 40, just remember, see it as an opportunity. What's the best that can happen?
[7:23] Emma
[7:24] We're aging with you. It's great. The water's great. Get on it. It's fine. Everything's good.
[7:25] Elsie
[7:26] It's basically a hot tub in here. Yep. Okay, so we're gonna do our hot take debate for the week. I don't
[7:27] know if we're gonna be able to disagree on this one. I'm feeling that we are probably going to both
[7:28] agree. So the hot take of the week is most self help books need only be an essay.
[7:29] Emma
[7:30] Yeah, I read this that I was like, so funny.
[7:31] Elsie
[7:32] Thank you to whoever submitted this. I'm sorry I didn't write down your name. I'm gonna say, since they
[7:33] use the word most I 1,000% agree, but I will say already that the word count on most self help books is
[7:34] shorter than you think it is, and a lot of them are pretty short books. Which they should? I agree they
[7:35] should be, and they could be even shorter, you know.
[7:36] Emma
[7:37] I almost wish, like, the big ones at least, or what, you know, I don't know. I guess you don't know when
[7:38] you're just gonna be big. Like, if they could come out with, like, here it is, and then here's the Cliff
[7:39] Notes. And you can buy them both, or you can buy one. And the Cliff Notes, by the way, it could be the
[7:40] same price I would pay the same price. I just, you know, because we were kind of talking about craft
[7:41] books in a previous episode, writing books for us. You know, whatever your craft is, but I was writing,
[7:42] and I kind of get a lot out of the short ones. Because basically, I feel like, what happens when it is really
[7:43] short is they take out all the stories about themselves. Yeah, they don't bother with that. They just teach
[7:44] as if you're in a classroom, and they're like, I'm not going to tell you about the time that I did this thing.
[7:45] We're just doing the assignment. Okay, now you do this practice assignment. Okay? Now I judge your
[7:46] practice assignment like, you know, classroom. So I do feel like a lot of self help books in order to be
[7:47] the right length, they add in a lot of stories, or it doesn't even be stories about them, but like, stories
[7:48] about life their clients. So here's my defense, and I agree with this so much, but here's what I will say. I
[7:49] do think that two things. One, when you're writing a book and you're teaching, you don't know
[7:50] everybody's learning method, or like, the best way that they learn. Some people need stories. They
[7:51] almost need, like, a narrative true, and then they learn the point better. That's why, like, allegories, or,
[7:52] you know, parables exist sometimes that really helps us understand a broader point, you know, rather
[7:53] like, just be kind. It's like you tell a story about someone being kind and that sticks with you.
[7:54] Elsie
[7:55] In the Stephen King book on writing, kind of the only part I like about it was the stories. I didn't really like
[7:56] his advice as much, but I loved his stories. So I think that sometimes it depends on who's writing. It how
[7:57] interesting they are and how much you you know you're you're compelled by them.
[7:58] Emma
[7:59] Yeah. So I think that that there can be some argument there for making a book longer, so that you can
[8:00] have more of a narrative, stories, that kind of thing. And the other thing I'll say, and this one's kind of
[8:01] like a human psychology thing. So agree or disagree, I don't know, but sometimes I think we buy into
[8:02] things more if they are longer, harder, more difficult. Like, sometimes it's hard to read an essay and be
[8:03] like, I'm gonna let that change my life. Sometimes you almost need to read 100 page book, and then
[8:04] you're like, I read this 100 page book. So now I've got to implement it, because I already sunk this
[8:05] amount of time into reading the book. You know what I mean?
[8:06] Elsie
[8:07] I strongly agree with what you mean, because I think that a lot of our like the podcast episode we have
[8:08] planned for next week, it could easily be a self help book. I think that it'll kind of, I think it'll kind of cover
[8:09] the same basis, but, yeah, it's like, Are people gonna let it completely change their lives? Like, I think
[8:10] that sometimes we don't let our lives be changed by, like, a podcast episode, but maybe we should.
[8:11] Emma
[8:12] I think if you have that ability, actually, you should, like, that's but it's kind of a hard thing to do, because
[8:13] I think sometimes we almost want to be like, Oh, I and this is kind of like a marketing thing too, because
[8:14] it's like, if I pay $1,000 for a class versus $50 for a class, even if it's the exact same information, I'm
[8:15] probably going to really invest my time into the $1,000 class you are. Yeah, because I paid more for it.
[8:16] So now I'm like, I've really got to buckle down. I've got to do everything. I've got to get everything out of
[8:17] this that I can as opposed to if I bought the $50 class, I might be like, oh, yeah, I'll do that when I have
[8:18] time. It's no big deal. I'll get to it. Like, there's just something about that. So I kind of think length of book
[8:19] in a similar way to how much you pay for something kind of like, makes you invest in it more, makes
[8:20] you buy into it more.
[8:21] Elsie
[8:22] Well, my advice for anyone who feels this way is that, if we're getting just like honest most self help
[8:23] books, these people go on podcasts, like it's their part time job, yeah, and so their information is
[8:24] something you can get in an hour. It's available easily, and they also all have sub stacks. So yeah, just
[8:25] go to one of those two places and get your information faster, and then you don't have to read the self
[8:26] help books. I'm fine with that. I like reading them, but I actually it used to be my number one genre
[8:27] through almost all, all of my 20s and almost all of my 30s. And then when I switched to fiction. I was
[8:28] happier. I was happier. I was like, there's so many, there were so many good things about it. And now I
[8:29] just, yeah, I can't make as much time for the long self-help books.
[8:30] Emma
[8:31] Yeah. I'm the same because they can be repetitive. Yeah. Anyway, I randomly, like, sparked up a
[8:32] conversation with a gentleman in my workout class the other day. It's like, an older, nice, older, nice guy
[8:33] that I've seen there a bunch, I don't know how it even, you know, just putting your weights away or
[8:34] whatever, and we were talking about reading, and he was like, Oh yeah, I mostly read self help books. I
[8:35] was like, Oh, that's cool. He's like, What are you reading right now? He's like, Oh, romance. I mostly
[8:36] read romance. Just we're both like, yeah, to each other. Yeah, yep, help myself. Yes, I will read this
[8:37] smart book. That's me. Okay.
[8:38] Elsie
[8:39] No, I I support you. I think it's a valid quest. We've had a request to bring back a segment we used to
[8:40] do that, we kind of forgot about guilty pleasure treasure. Surprise. We forgot, we forgot you existed.
[8:41] Okay, so I have my guilty pleasure treasure. Do you have yours?
[8:42] Emma
[8:43] Yes, mine's so random.
[8:44] Elsie
[8:45] All right. Do you want to go first?
[8:46] Emma
[8:47] Yeah. Okay, so I lately, I don't know why, I've been obsessed with cinnamon candy, specifically,
[8:48] cinnamon gummy candy, okay? And there's these ones at Trader Joe's. They're like, called cinnamon
[8:49] dragons, and we don't have Trader Joe's where I live, so lately, I've been buying them off Amazon. I've
[8:50] done this a few times now, and sometimes when they come in the mail, you can tell that they're not that
[8:51] fresh, like it's not that they're expired, but they're just not straight from the store. But to be fair, I'm not
[8:52] buying from the store. I'm buying Amazon, which is an insane thing to do. Why am I even doing that? I
[8:53] don't know, but I really like cinnamon Dragon, so we don't have Trader Joe's, so that's my guilty
[8:54] pleasure. That's funny is cinnamon gummies. Yeah, candies. Maybe this is our sign that we need to go
[8:55] on a road trip to Trader Joe's. Yeah, go visit our brother. Yes, because I want to go to World Market.
[8:56] This is my you, but we're mostly here for trader just now. I'm just kidding, he'd probably be like, That's
[8:57] cool.
[8:58] Elsie
[8:59] Everyone likes it. Okay, so mine is so wonderful. And everyone this, I'm offering this up. Everyone can
[9:00] have it. Take it if you wish. So two nights ago, I'm laying on my couch and I'm like, on my period and I'm
[9:01] like, borderline, almost crying, just like, just not in the right mood at all for anything. And my husband
[9:02] says, Why don't you watch a period piece? And I was like, It's genius. You were like, it's genius. Know,
[9:03] me, it's genius. I was like, okay, so I turned so I did watch Orlando with Tilda Swinton, and it was
[9:04] delightful and so funny and weird. It was just a charming movie. But anyway, I think every time I'm on
[9:05] my period now, and I'm if I'm especially if I'm, like, a horrible mood, I'm gonna watch a period piece. I
[9:06] think it just is perfect. I like it. I also like the idea that someone, I mean, anyone can like those movies,
[9:07] but that someone's, like, we make movies for women on their periods, like, it goes really well with also,
[9:08] like the kind of food I'm craving, and like it all just fits. It all just fits, like Legos, so I like it. Yeah, okay,
[9:09] we're gonna toss it over to a joke or fact, with Nova. Hey, Nova, what do you have for us this week?
[9:10] Nova
[9:11] Another joke.
[9:12] Elsie
[9:13] Okay.
[9:14] Nova
[9:15] What kind of insect is the smartest?
[9:16] Elsie
[9:17] The smartest insect, hmm, I don't know. Tell me.
[9:18] Nova
[9:19] A spelling bee.
[9:20] Elsie
[9:21] Nice one.
[9:22] Elsie
[9:23] Have a good week.
[9:24] Nova
[9:25] Goodbye.
[9:26] Emma
[9:27] Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for sending us your hot takes and book recommendations,
[9:28] all of it we read every single email. And we love hearing from you. So if you have a hot take or
[9:29] something else that you want to tell us, like an episode idea, you can email us at
[9:30] podcast@abeautifulmess.com. Bye.

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