# #294: Developing Your Signature Style

An episode of [A Beautiful Mess Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1485472892), 6 Apr 2026, 39 min.

Audio: https://mgln.ai/e/498/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.libsyn.com/secure/abmpodcast/ABM_EP294_FInal.mp3?dest-id=1624655

This week we're talking about how to develop your creative palette and style without being derivative. This is a subject that applies across different creative practices from art to writing and even how you dress or decorate your home. Thank you to this week's sponsor: Try their products and support our show by going to DrinkLMNT.com/ABeautifulMess Steal like an Artist by Austin Kleon Steps to develop your creative palette: Step one: Develop your taste (Be a fan! Appreciate art!) Step two: MAKE DERIVITIVE WORK (keep doing so until your own style emerges) Step three: Keep developing, keep growing, keep making (to infinity & beyond) BOOK REPORT State of Wonder by Ann Patchett You can support us by leaving us a couple of 5 star recipe reviews this week at abeautifulmess.com Have a topic idea for the podcast? Write in to us at podcast@abeautifulmess.com or leave us a voicemail at 417-893-0011.

## Transcript

[0:00] Emma
[0:01] You're listening to the Beautiful Mess podcast your cozy comfort listen. I'm your host, Emma Chapman.
[0:02] Elsie
[0:03] And I'm your host, Elsie Larson.
[0:04] Emma
[0:05] And this week we're talking about how to develop your Creative Palette and style without being
[0:06] derivative. This is a subject that applies across different creative practices, from art to writing and even
[0:07] how you dress or decorate your home. And also, at the end of the episode, we're going to have a book
[0:08] report.
[0:09] Elsie
[0:10] Yes, this entire episode is based around a wonderful listener question. It is from Haley, so I'm going to
[0:11] read it to get us started. She says, I always want to be creative and love making art. I get frustrated,
[0:12] though, because I seem to be stuck in a loop of seeing something I like on Pinterest and then
[0:13] recreating it. I feel like I can't figure out how to make something original. When I see something I like on
[0:14] Pinterest, I can't get it on my head and I just remake it. How do you gather inspiration without imitation?
[0:15] So I love this subject. Yeah, I think that it's so interesting, and I do think it's like a very common
[0:16] challenge in, like, early development of any kind of creative process, like, no one wants to be derivative,
[0:17] like no one wants to be a copycat. But in this episode, we're gonna make the case why you kind of
[0:18] have to. It's a stepping stone to get where you want to go. It's not where you're going to end. It's not
[0:19] where you're going to land on. It's one step in the process of learning your style.
[0:20] Emma
[0:21] Yeah, we're going to flip a script on it. Instead of being like, I'm a copycat, it's like, I'm a fan girl.
[0:22] Elsie
[0:23] Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. And I should shout out, I love Austin cleons. You know, we saw him at a
[0:24] conference last year, and it has he was so, was so cute, and I followed his newsletter ever since, and
[0:25] he has that book, I'm sure you've heard of it, steal, like an artist, and it is such a great little it's kind of a
[0:26] pep talk, like, I don't even feel like it's like a book, it's like a it's a pep It's a little, yeah, little talking pep
[0:27] talk for you. If you are more interested in the subject, I do recommend it, because it kind of just
[0:28] consolidates all the great quotes. There's a lot of, like, Picasso quotes, and just everyone through
[0:29] history kind of knows, like, not just Andy Warhol, other people too. You kind of have to copy, like, it's
[0:30] part of creating art, and it's not always a bad thing. So I think that share, I don't know, we'll talk, we'll
[0:31] talk more about it, but yeah, I think that when I was younger, I first started my blog, I wanted everything
[0:32] I did to be completely original, and it was kind of a trap, because I didn't let myself try many things I was
[0:33] interested in, because someone else was already doing it well. And I think that that's really sad.
[0:34] Emma
[0:35] I actually just really liked her question too, because I feel like sometimes people are nervous to admit
[0:36] that they want to make something they've seen, yeah, like, just even saying that, a lot of people feel
[0:37] like, oh, I should never, never admit that, even though the truth is, we all feel that way. We every time I
[0:38] see a beautiful piece of art of some kind, I would love to make it, you know, like, that's kind of what it
[0:39] means to be a fan. So, you know, it's a really normal starting place. And I just like that. She was just
[0:40] like, here's the thing, you know, it's like, yeah, exactly Yes. Me too, all of us, yes. Okay, so we're kind of
[0:41] going to go through. It's basically a three step process, yeah, simple, easy, just three steps, and then
[0:42] you will have your own signature style.
[0:43] Elsie
[0:44] And this applies to art, writing, creating content, dressing yourself, any creative work you want to do on
[0:45] this planet, this will apply to you, but we'll probably tell mostly stories from our own development. So
[0:46] maybe, like writing our novels, and I could, I can talk about art too, but yeah, there's maybe blogging
[0:47] too, but yeah, there's all kinds of, I kind of think it applies to everything, like, it touches every part of
[0:48] creativity.
[0:49] Emma
[0:50] Yes, it does. It's just like, I feel like it's like, one of those snowball things where it's like, you start going
[0:51] with it, and then you find out, as it starts rolling down the hill and getting, like, bigger and bigger and
[0:52] beyond you, you're like, oh, it just supplies everything. I was trying to just have my own painting style,
[0:53] but all of a sudden I'm like, looking at my closet differently, and my kids closet differently, and my
[0:54] decorating my house, or like, the way I cook and the way I present food if I have guests over, you know,
[0:55] whatever, whatever you do in your life. These are things I do.
[0:56] Elsie
[0:57] I'm actually going to use painting as more an example today, because this season right now, I'm in the
[0:58] process of trying to tweak my style and kind of take it in a new direction. And so I have been doing a lot
[0:59] of this stuff. So I think if you sit down and you you sit down, you have your blank canvas, you put your
[1:00] paints on your palette, you have your water, you have your brushes, and you expect for yourself on the
[1:01] first try to just be able to. Just like, conjure something original like that is it might happen. I mean, you
[1:02] like, you can put paint on the canvas and just see what comes out. Like you, you might find something
[1:03] you love. But for me, more often, it is a longer process than that. And it like, it doesn't just take one
[1:04] step. It's not just like, I want to change my style. Poof, my style has changed. It's a development
[1:05] process that I have to go through. I want to start off by saying, don't be mad at yourself if you can't live
[1:06] up to your own taste on your first try, because that is like a tale as old as time. We all have that
[1:07] problem, and the reason you're disappointed in the outcome is because you do have good taste, and
[1:08] eventually you will be able to live up to that taste.
[1:09] Emma
[1:10] And I also think it makes me think about, like, sometimes you'll see, like, a favorite artist, like maybe a
[1:11] great filmmaker, or something, them have an interview, and they're like, this film is garbage. I'm doing a
[1:12] fake cigarette right now, total garbage. I hate it. And you're like, wow, I thought this was like, kind of like,
[1:13] the most amazing thing they've made in their career so far. And it's because even for them, even for
[1:14] people who are professionals, or you might look up to or have won awards, amazing awards out in the
[1:15] world, they have the same thing where their taste, they're like, not quite caught up to their taste yet.
[1:16] And so it's like, you're always chasing that. And so I would kind of say, try to be okay with that and
[1:17] enjoy that. Try to just, you know, it's uncomfortable, but like, just know that that's not a bad thing. And
[1:18] so maybe, like, you know, chill out a little bit because the journey is like, what you're going to be on until
[1:19] you die. So you should try to enjoy it, if you can't.
[1:20] Elsie
[1:21] Yes, okay, so yeah, we're building with Legos here, and each project is one Lego brick, and you cannot
[1:22] build your Lego Castle without starting with one brick. Yeah, sorry. Okay, so step one, develop your
[1:23] taste. Be a fan, appreciate art. So this is something early in my career. I don't know what to call it, early
[1:24] in blogging.
[1:25] Emma
[1:26] I don't like that you're laughing saying career.
[1:27] Elsie
[1:28] My early career was, like, not really a career. It was a little bit like, it was a weird origin story. So I think
[1:29] early on, I felt like I was, like, afraid to be like, a big fan in public, because for one, I like, felt like, if I
[1:30] showed my appreciation, then people would, like, compare my work to that. And I mean, it's definitely
[1:31] like that with writing, where it's like, you say, you like, say, like, my favorite writers are these three
[1:32] people. And then you, like, hold out your manuscript, and you're like, Oh.
[1:33] Emma
[1:34] It's scary. You're telling me it's not like, Barbara King Grover, oh.
[1:35] Elsie
[1:36] Yeah, it's like, a little little pat on the shoulder, yeah, um, but yeah, I think that a big part of developing
[1:37] your palette is being a fan and appreciating art and consuming as much of it as you can. So whatever
[1:38] your project, be a voracious fan of that thing. And if it's reading, read like all over the different library
[1:39] sections, don't just stay in one. I think that's a very, very important part of growing and if it's art, you
[1:40] know, don't just stay, like, only focused on your favorite artist. Study 10, like, have 10 favorite artists. I
[1:41] think that, like, the more you can expand your fandom, you're, like, actually growing your taste on the
[1:42] inside at the same time.
[1:43] Emma
[1:44] In this phase two, I would say, I think you're going to probably gravitate towards becoming a fan of the
[1:45] types of art or work or things that you're interested in yourself. But I would also encourage you to push
[1:46] yourself to be a fan and grow your taste in areas that you have no intention of copying. Like, you know,
[1:47] for example, I do like fashion, and I wear clothes every day, but I don't really aspire to be a fashion
[1:48] designer. I don't really aspire to be going to New York for a Fashion Week. Like, that's not really
[1:49] something I've ever been been on my radar. But I still think going to the library and going to the fashion
[1:50] section reading some books or like, finding like, Oh, I love Alexander McQueen. Oh, I love, like, that's
[1:51] cool. That's a cool thing to do, and you should do it. Find your favorite, you know, designer, your
[1:52] favorite painter, a few favorite musicians, favorite filmmakers. Like, it's great to, you know, spread
[1:53] yourself out across all these different creative areas, if nothing else. Like, this is truly just about
[1:54] appreciating great art. That's, that's the goal, and one of the goals, anyway, in this step. So yes, you
[1:55] know, you want to be a writer. Yes, read a lot, but also, love films, love music, love fashion, love
[1:56] photography, love painting. You know, whatever. It doesn't have to be all those things. But, like, pick
[1:57] more than just your field.
[1:58] Elsie
[1:59] Yeah, I think that's really good. And if you want to be a. A like, a tactile person like me. You can start a
[2:00] journal for this. You can start a journal for anything you really can't No one's stopping you a journal of
[2:01] just like art I love. You could write on the front of it, inspiration, you know, anything like that. And just
[2:02] collect, collect, collect, you know, like, write in it, your playlist. Write in it, what movies you want to see.
[2:03] And I think to Emma's point, it's true that, like, you might get the greatest idea for a novel from a film or
[2:04] a song and like it, yeah, the categories definitely touch each other and overlap.
[2:05] Emma
[2:06] Or you might end up writing a character who is a musician or a fashion designer or whatever, and now
[2:07] you have some appreciation of that field. You know, it all bleeds together, but mainly it's just having an
[2:08] appreciation for beautiful, interesting things that are out there in the world, which I think is a worthwhile
[2:09] pursuit in and of itself.
[2:10] Elsie
[2:11] Yeah, I agree. All right. Step two is make derivative work on purpose. Yeah, this is so important, and
[2:12] you're going to keep doing so until you start to see your own style emerge, and it will. I remember, in
[2:13] like, the covid days, I was making replica paintings of like, fame, like I was literally trying to copy exactly
[2:14] a Grandma Moses painting, and I think a Matisse painting, I can't remember anymore, yeah, I think it
[2:15] was a Matisse painting. Anyway, I was just copying them. It was not to show. It was for learning. It was
[2:16] for the education of it. And I've heard this advice all over different types of creative work. I think, well,
[2:17] with my husband, he is musician. He tells me, everyone who starts songwriting has an early phase
[2:18] where they are just like a blatant copycat of whatever their favorite band is at that time. And that's
[2:19] normal. You hope you won't get famous for that a few people in life do, but you know, most people
[2:20] don't. Most people, it's like, you recognize someone's kind of they're learning. And it's not a shameful
[2:21] thing to make derivative work early in your learning process. It's totally normal, and I think it's good. I
[2:22] will defend it, because I think that it's a way to self teach. You know, copying something you admire is
[2:23] just more exciting than copying something you don't admire.
[2:24] Emma
[2:25] Yeah, and I'll say too in this step, you know, for the most part, 99% of the time, let's say that this is not
[2:26] the step where you stop and then start selling your word. This is the step where you're learning and
[2:27] also, like you can kind of stop at this step if you never plan to sell your work. So again, you know, let's
[2:28] say fashion. I was sick on that for some reason I don't know if I'm like, never going to sell fashion. I
[2:29] don't want to make it, to sell it on Etsy. I don't want to, you know, that's not my inspiration. Then I'm like,
[2:30] I can forever just be trying to put together outfits, like the ones I see on Pinterest or my favorite
[2:31] designer or whatever, I can just be derivative forever, if it's just for me. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with
[2:32] that. It's just fine. It's just being a fan forever. If you want to become an artist who has their own point of
[2:33] view, and especially if you want to sell your work, you're going to need to move to step three. But this
[2:34] step two is, can be the finish line if you don't really have any aspirations beyond it.
[2:35] Elsie
[2:36] True, that's fine. Every single time I go to a flea market, I see a Bob Ross style painting, yeah. And it's
[2:37] like, there's nothing wrong with all these Bob Ross people. Like, I imagine the like, I don't know, the
[2:38] Linda's and the Karens who made these paintings in the 80s in their living room with their TV on. And I
[2:39] think it's great, yeah, and they probably had some fun from Bob Ross.
[2:40] Emma
[2:41] You probably had so much fun. He's, like, so fun to watch.
[2:42] Elsie
[2:43] Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's got the vibe. Oh, yeah, um. And yeah, I've heard a lot of people say, Okay, so
[2:44] like, one of my favorite painters who, like, I got a lot out of this in my 20s, Jim Hauser, do you remember
[2:45] him? Yes, this book that I was obsessed with. So anyway, he had this quote. It said, like, give away
[2:46] your first 100 paintings. I think that that's like, a good way to think of it. If you want to become
[2:47] commercially viable, you want to become an expert, you want to become a professional, then you
[2:48] should be okay with either tossing to the side or doing it just for fun. I think in writing, fan fiction is pretty
[2:49] popular. A lot of people get their start, especially younger people, their first book is fan fiction that I think
[2:50] it's a great way to learn, because you don't have to build your own world as deeply you kind of have,
[2:51] like this diving board to jump off from.
[2:52] Emma
[2:53] And you know you can't sell it, so it kind of takes that pressure off.
[2:54] Elsie
[2:55] Yeah, you know you're not gonna make money from it. You're just doing it for fun. And I think that things
[2:56] like that, that is great advice. So, yeah, I think that you should embrace it, and I think you should do it
[2:57] even more. Just know that this isn't this is one step. This is not the final destination. Obviously, like,
[2:58] copying is bad when you're passing it off as your own work, you know, like and you're pretending to be
[2:59] a professional, but it's not bad when you're in an education phase at all. So yep. Okay, you want to say
[3:00] step three.
[3:01] Emma
[3:02] So we've made a lot of derivative work, so now we're on to step three, which is to keep developing,
[3:03] keep growing, keep making To infinity and beyond. I also think this is the time. Another thing I would
[3:04] say is like, mash it up. So now it's like, take two different artists that you've been making derivative work
[3:05] from, and try to mash them together and like something you like about, you know, like, that's sort of
[3:06] what a lot of art is.
[3:07] Elsie
[3:08] Pick something with some contrast, like, pick, don't pick, like, two bands that sound kind of alike, pick
[3:09] two bands that sound different, and mix those two things together.
[3:10] Emma
[3:11] Hopefully this will be kind of easy for you if you've done step one and two, because you're a fan of lot of
[3:12] different things, and you're familiar with so many different things, different styles, different even
[3:13] disciplines. So it's going to be easier for you to do this kind of mashing up, trying things phase and also
[3:14] during Step two, while you're making all that derivative work, you probably discovered things that you
[3:15] enjoyed about the process. Oh, I really loved painting with these types of brushes. Oh, I really loved
[3:16] writing in first person. Oh, I really love, you know, whatever. So now you kind of have a better
[3:17] understanding of what you like, what you might be good at, what you might be bad at, what you could
[3:18] improve on that is important to you, what you don't need to improve on, because you're never going to
[3:19] do it again like you kind again. Like you kind of have a sense of those things, and so you can use that
[3:20] in your tool belt as you start to mash up different things, different ideas you might have. I almost feel
[3:21] like step three in many ways, like just kind of naturally happens over time. Like you might think, oh, I'll
[3:22] just be a copycat forever if I copy people. But it's like, I really think if you're doing that and you're a fan
[3:23] of lots of different things, it just starts to happen. It just kind of starts to seep into your work where
[3:24] you're like, Well, I was imitating Grandma Moses, but I was also thinking about this, like Warhol painting
[3:25] and this, like Cezanne painting. And then I just thought, you know, what if I and that's just kind of how it
[3:26] goes, like, it's just sort of like, becomes this. It's like yours. Your brain just starts to evolve because
[3:27] you're swimming and all these different things all the time. So it'll just kind of happen.
[3:28] Elsie
[3:29] Yeah, and I think be generous, citing your influences, praising your influences. I don't think it's ever cute
[3:30] to be like to pretend like something came out of nothing.
[3:31] Emma
[3:32] It's not cute.
[3:33] Elsie
[3:34] I have this little quote on my Pinterest, and a look at it every day that says, like, I'm a museum of
[3:35] everything I've loved. And I think that's such a great way to look at art and creativity in general, that for
[3:36] our whole lives, we're basically like this little pin board, and we're just pinning more things on every day
[3:37] to ourself, and then we move forward. And, you know, like when I was in fourth grade, my favorite novel
[3:38] was Jurassic Park, like that will always be pinned on me. You know, that will always be one little part,
[3:39] and it will never leave me my entire life. And you know what I mean? Like the books you love in
[3:40] different parts of your life, the art the museum visits, the songs that you listened to 100 times when you
[3:41] were going through a breakup or a sad time or a loss, or, you know, yeah, the ways you celebrate, like,
[3:42] just all of those things. So no one, I don't know. So that my point is we're all going to be unique just by
[3:43] living different lives.
[3:44] Emma
[3:45] Having different experiences, having different influences, being a fan of so many different things, you'll
[3:46] never meet another person who's a fan of exactly all the same things you are, unless you only have,
[3:47] like, two things you like, it's true. So if you have 100 and you're never going to meet someone who's
[3:48] like, I love Alexander McQueen and the Muppets.
[3:49] Elsie
[3:50] Yeah, that's my sister. That's me. No, I think it's very special. So yeah, hopefully this was helpful for
[3:51] Haley and for anyone who gets a little bit in your head about creativity, like, just keep making more.
[3:52] Keep going. Like, don't stop yourself. Don't beat yourself up when you're new to something like, you're
[3:53] going, you're going to make things inspired by other people. And like, so did Picasso honestly, like, so I
[3:54] think that, I think it's good to know, I think it's good to like, embrace it, and I don't know, do it even
[3:55] harder.
[3:56] Emma
[3:57] Yeah and it's just feedback, you know? So if you're like, at the point where you feel like you have
[3:58] something original, and maybe you're offering it for sale, and you're getting a lot of feedback, that is that
[3:59] looks exactly. Like, this artist, that's feedback that you should maybe take in and be like, Oh, maybe I'm
[4:00] not quite there. Let's go back to, you know, mashing things up, trying to find my style again. It doesn't
[4:01] mean like you're a bad person and you should never make art again. No, it doesn't mean that it's just
[4:02] feedback of like, maybe you're not quite there. Maybe, you know, people are seeing it, you know, where
[4:03] it's too similar to some of your heroes. So, yeah, go back to the drawing board. No big deal, yeah, for
[4:04] sure.
[4:05] Elsie
[4:06] And hopefully, with any luck, you know, eventually you're gonna be you're gonna hear people saying,
[4:07] Oh, this reminds me of and they'll say something that makes you, like, happy and proud. But is also
[4:08] surprising. It's like, not someone you were trying to copy. It's just someone you like in the world.
[4:09] Emma
[4:10] Yeah, thank you. Wow. Never thought of that, but that's wonderful. Yeah, those are, like, the best
[4:11] compliments.
[4:12] Elsie
[4:13] I think you know that you're doing good work when you start getting feedback and when people are
[4:14] saying it reminds me of they're saying something different each time. I think that's a good litmus test.
[4:15] Emma
[4:16] People are like, you copied this, and they say five different things that it's like, Ah, that's good. Like,
[4:17] you're actually in the phase where this is probably pretty original, because they can't even put their
[4:18] finger on or you're getting different people saying, different artists, different things. Yes, good sign.
[4:19] Elsie
[4:20] Whoo, okay, we have a topic of discussion from Corey. Oh, it's a book question. You know, we love the
[4:21] book question.
[4:22] Emma
[4:23] I love this question. I like wrote Corey back right away when I saw it from the email box, which, if you
[4:24] ever get an email from me, a lot of times, I'm not replying to the one you sent, because we get sent
[4:25] them in bulk. So it probably feels like out of the blue. It's just like random, like, hello, I'm answering a
[4:26] question that you maybe sent me two weeks ago.
[4:27] Elsie
[4:28] I only write back to the ones that are very specific, niche questions that are only for me, and then the
[4:29] rest of the questions I usually save for the podcast.
[4:30] Emma
[4:31] Mine's clearly random. Anyway, okay, Corey says I've had a book idea bouncing around my brain for
[4:32] about six years. Recently, the characters have become so vivid that it feels like the moment to actually
[4:33] write the thing in my imagination. I'm already casting the Netflix series, but I also know the first thing
[4:34] most people write is rarely their best. So do I spend this year learning to write in quotes, on something
[4:35] else and save this good idea for later, or do I just go all in on the story that refuses to leave my head?
[4:36] Elsie
[4:37] Okay, I think we have good advice for this. Yeah, do you want to go first? Tell us. I hope so. Tell us what
[4:38] you responded to, Corey.
[4:39] Emma
[4:40] I was like, write the idea for sure. Because I was like, Corey, you're right. Usually people's first book
[4:41] isn't very good, and that is true. I'm not going to sugarcoat it for you. Sometimes it's not true, but most
[4:42] of the time it is true. It's not very good, but I lied, yeah, sometimes it's true, sometimes it's great, yeah.
[4:43] But mainly I think, like, that's besides the point. I am kind of of the belief, and this is very woo, woo. But
[4:44] when ideas come to us, it is just our job to bring them into the world, and maybe they're good, maybe
[4:45] they it comes out and it's not great. Maybe you can sell it and it's best selling and it's Twilight. Maybe it's
[4:46] something that you just show a couple friends and they're like, Oh, neat hobby, you know, like,
[4:47] whatever. It doesn't really matter. That part is like, it's a thing, and you'll have to face it, but I think it's
[4:48] besides the point, because I kind of think the whole thing is the journey, and this idea clearly won't
[4:49] leave her head. So she should write it, and I hope it turns out amazing. I bet it'll turn out pretty good,
[4:50] probably better than she thinks. But I don't think you should like practice writing something else. If you
[4:51] want to practice, like exercises, that's great. Like, if you're like, I'm reading a writer. Like, I'm reading a
[4:52] writing book and I'm doing like little exercises from the book, great, but I think, like, you've got this fully
[4:53] formed idea what a gift. Write it, yeah?
[4:54] Elsie
[4:55] Like, worst case scenario, it turns out bad, and you can rewrite it later.
[4:56] Emma
[4:57] Yeah. Editing is easy.
[4:58] Elsie
[4:59] I have literally done that. And I like, I Okay. So first of all, to validate you. Six years is long time. You
[5:00] have to do it. You have to do it. Like, listen to big sister. You have to, like, I don't think this is really even
[5:01] optional. And when you're at the point where the characters feel real to you, like, you have to, so just
[5:02] like, open up a Word document and start writing. And I think that the fear and the advice that like your
[5:03] first novel is not going to be good. I think that it keeps a lot of people from writing a first novel. And
[5:04] yeah, it might be true. It might it might break your heart a little, but like having recently had that
[5:05] heartbreak myself. I promise you, it's worth it. It's not that big of a deal. It's totally recoverable. We just,
[5:06] you know, and I'm glad I did it, and I'm glad I used my best idea first. I think you should. I think that
[5:07] that's sort of like how you invite more ideas in the future, is like always using the one like you. Can't not
[5:08] do this. So I think you know what you have to do. Corey, write us back in a month or two and tell us
[5:09] you've started, and tell us how it's going, and we will be cheering you on. And for anyone who wants to
[5:10] know if it's worth it to write a novel, even though it might be bad, it's worth it, like I promise you, it's so
[5:11] worth it, and you don't have to do you can do a practice novel if you want. I've heard people that make
[5:12] a case for this.
[5:13] Emma
[5:14] Especially if you don't really have an idea.
[5:15] Elsie
[5:16] It doesn't really matter what you write first. I don't think, like, just write something if you love it, you'll
[5:17] probably still love it later. You can fix a lot of things in editing. Editing is magical. Like, I did not know
[5:18] that before I started, like, it's not just writing a first draft. Like the editing is kind of where the magic
[5:19] happens, and it's wonderful. And I think that I don't know, I just hate that so many people walk around
[5:20] with like, stories inside of them, but they're not, like, willing to, like, take the risk of it being bad.
[5:21] Emma
[5:22] Just let it be whatever it is. Don't worry about it. It just doesn't really matter. There's no way to know. So
[5:23] why even you know worry about it's like having regret about something you can't change. It's like, well,
[5:24] you can walk around thinking about that every single day if you want. But I would point out that's maybe
[5:25] not going to like, help you live your life so you just move forward, you know. And if you want to write,
[5:26] just write. And maybe you'll write Twilight, and maybe you'll write a bunch of books that you just very
[5:27] enjoyed writing. And that's fine, because what else you got to do with your time? You know? Like, just,
[5:28] it's fun to do things that you enjoy. Why not? Why does it matter if it turns out a mate, like, what's, what
[5:29] is this? You know, I just think it's that there's a lot of marketing for certain books where it's like, this is
[5:30] their debut, and they won the Pulitzer, and that's great, cool marketing that makes me want to read a
[5:31] book if I heard that. But that's marketing, okay, you don't need to worry about that. That's just like, how
[5:32] they sell us stuff, like, you can just write and enjoy it. That's like, what it is.
[5:33] Elsie
[5:34] Yeah, it's magical. Yeah, you just, you just got to do it, and it takes away the fear. Like, once you've
[5:35] done it, once, like, I have no fear for the future. I have no fear for my next book being a flop anymore,
[5:36] which is so great, like, I don't care. And it, like, it like it has no power over me anymore. Yeah, so I think
[5:37] that's a wonderful thing that you have ahead of you too.
[5:38] Emma
[5:39] And for Cory especially, I think too, it's like, it's a lot easier to write when you're inspired. So, and I still
[5:40] think if you want to write a practice novel, great, go for it.
[5:41] Elsie
[5:42] But still do a topic you're obsessed with. I think, yeah, you should be obsessed with your own topic. You
[5:43] have to.
[5:44] Emma
[5:45] I think it's hard to write something you're not obsessed with. I think it would be a bit of a drag. And it's
[5:46] like, Well, I think the whole point is to enjoy writing so, and hopefully you have something in the end that
[5:47] you can show, but I think the point was to enjoy it. So I kind of have to write stuff that I'm interested in.
[5:48] Elsie
[5:49] Okay, beautiful. Okay. So we have book report. Okay, I'm just gonna be honest, I'm having a really bad
[5:50] reading month. I started three different books and I don't have anything to report on, so I'm just gonna
[5:51] toss it to Emma and let her report. I have some months too.
[5:52] Emma
[5:53] I feel like I'm either, like, in a book and I'm like, so into it, or I'm like, I just started two different ones and
[5:54] I wasn't sure about them, and then I, you know now I'm like, trying another one.
[5:55] Elsie
[5:56] I don't know, but I know I'm spinning out when I just keep starting things. And that happens to me, I do
[5:57] that.
[5:58] Emma
[5:59] Yeah, okay, well, my book report is I just finished, State of Wonder.
[6:00] Elsie
[6:01] Sorry, it's one of my favorite books, I'm so happy.
[6:02] Emma
[6:03] Yeah, and well, in I think this is maybe the first, I'm thinking, I think it might be the first from the stash of
[6:04] 40 books you gave me for my 40th birthday, because this was in the stash.
[6:05] Elsie
[6:06] That was the only one I told you when I gave it to you. That was the only one that was really for me,
[6:07] and all the rest of them were from, like, the email list and the podcast list.
[6:08] Emma
[6:09] To be honest, I didn't even remember that. I don't know why. I guess it was in there somewhere.
[6:10] Because I was like, this will be the first one.
[6:11] Elsie
[6:12] Because I've already forced you to read a lot of my favorite books. Yeah, this was one of the ones that
[6:13] was still lingering.
[6:14] Emma
[6:15] So, yeah, we do that too. This is only the second Anne Patchett that I've ever read. I don't know how
[6:16] this is. You know, there's so many great books in the world, and I feel, I feel like I've read lots of great
[6:17] books, but also, there's still so many more. You know, that's the great thing about reading. But anyway,
[6:18] this was only my second hand hatchet. I also read Tom lake. So this was my second state of wonder.
[6:19] This will have spoilers. So this has been out for like, more than 10 years, but still, if you haven't read
[6:20] state of wonder and you want to and you don't want spoilers, don't listen to this part, just skip ahead. So
[6:21] anyway, I loved this book. I thought it was super inspiring and so fun to read. It is very literary. So Anne
[6:22] Patrick's a beautiful, beautiful writer. Most of this book takes place in the Amazon or the city near the
[6:23] Amazon. Yeah, so it's very atmospheric. It's got a lot of environment. And if you're like, Well, what is the
[6:24] book like? What's the genre? It's like, well, it's literary. It's a literary book. But also it is kind of science
[6:25] fiction. We're dealing with scientists who are studying a tribe in the Amazon, because the women in the
[6:26] tribe can have children up until they die. So they can have children in their 50s, 60s, 70s. And so the
[6:27] scientists are studying them, hoping to replicate that for all women, so that women don't have to so that
[6:28] they could have children later in life, if that's what they want to choose. So that's sort of the premise.
[6:29] And the book starts with a death. A scientist has gone down there, and he's died, and so someone else
[6:30] has dispatched another scientist to go find out what happened to him. There's not a lot of details around
[6:31] it, maybe get his body, or at least get any personal items for his family, and to also check in on the
[6:32] scientists who are down there developing this drug. Because it's taking a long, long time, as science
[6:33] often does. So anyway, that's sort of what happens. I didn't know where we were going to go with it. I
[6:34] was like, oh, and pageant, I'm sure it'll just be beautiful, and I'll be reading these beautiful descriptions
[6:35] of the Amazon and that'll be fun. But then the plot gets wild. So these are the spoilers. So the very old
[6:36] doctor who's down there studying she's 70 or like 73 she's pregnant, and she gives birth during the
[6:37] book. And then the book opens with that scientist who dies. His name is Anders, and you find out later
[6:38] that he's not dead, and they retrieve him from a neighboring tribe. That's like, cannibals. Yeah, there's
[6:39] cannibals. There's a 70 year old having a baby. There's a dead man who's alive. It's crazy. So the plot
[6:40] is actually like, wild, like, you know, if this was poorly written, it would be an insane soap opera, but it is
[6:41] so beautifully written. It's this literary work for man Paget. So it's just a lot of fun. And there's an
[6:42] Anaconda, there's, you know, just crazy, lots and lots of bugs, lots and lots of just madness, really. And
[6:43] it's really beautiful and fun and crazy, and I thought it was a blast to read. So great review.
[6:44] Elsie
[6:45] I'm pretty sure I read four of her books, and this was my this is my favorite so far. It's my reigning
[6:46] champion. Oh, I thought Dutch house was your favorite. No, this one, okay, I love Dutch house too. You
[6:47] know for the Tom Hanks of it all.
[6:48] Emma
[6:49] Right, right, right, right. Of course, of course.
[6:50] Elsie
[6:51] But yeah, no, this book is, it's so magical. But I also wanted to, like note, if you've ever read the book
[6:52] Big Magic, this is the book from Big Magic where Elizabeth Gilbert kind of says, like, the idea left her
[6:53] and went to someone else. It was the idea for this book, and it went to Anne Patchett. So when I read
[6:54] the book, I and I realized it was like, from Big Magic, which I am obsessed with. I don't know. I think it's
[6:55] such a cool story, like an origin story for, like, you know, I love Big Magic, yes, the idea abandoned
[6:56] Elizabeth Gilbert and made home in in patch it instead. I think it's great.
[6:57] Emma
[6:58] And that's why you have to write your idea.
[6:59] Elsie
[7:00] Cory, yes, yes. That's why you have to do it. Like I that is actually a fear that keeps me motivated. Is,
[7:01] like the fear that if I don't write this book, that someone else will, and I think that's really, like, a big part
[7:02] of where my first novel came from. Like, it like, if, you know, if I wouldn't have done it, and then it would
[7:03] have just come out, and that happens all the time. That is real. It's a good source of inspiration. I mean,
[7:04] motivation, yeah, a little bit of fear isn't gonna hurt you. A little fear is good.
[7:05] Emma
[7:06] Little fear is good, too much, and that's a problem. Yeah, yeah. I'll also say, just for anyone out there
[7:07] who's like studying writing, because you want to write, this book has a lot of backstory, and I've seen
[7:08] reviews where they say it's too much backstory, but I thought it was really well done. There is a lot of
[7:09] backstory, and I thought it was really well done. So I think it's a great example of a book. If you're like,
[7:10] I'm not good at backstory, I feel like, you know, I don't get it in there in the way that I want. I want to see
[7:11] a writer who's really great writer do backstory. I would read state of wonder. It's got a whole bunch of
[7:12] backstory and and you really don't feel it. It's just there and important. So anyway, if you're looking to
[7:13] write more backstory, State of Wonder might be a good reference for you.
[7:14] Elsie
[7:15] Yeah, no, it probably is. I hate the writing advice when people say to cut all the backstory. Like, I just
[7:16] think it's like, this is, this is not a 20,000 word screenplay.
[7:17] Emma
[7:18] Ann Patchett didn't, of course, I'm not Ann Patchett but nevertheless.
[7:19] Elsie
[7:20] It can just add so much, like, depth to your characters in the second half, you know, and so much
[7:21] payoff. Like, I just think it's great. Yeah. Now it’s time for our special segment, a joke or a fact with
[7:22] Nova. Hey, Nova, what do you have for us this week?
[7:23] Nova
[7:24] I have a riddle.
[7:25] Elsie
[7:26] A riddle. Okay, I'm ready.
[7:27] Nova
[7:28] Although it's a very long one.
[7:29] Elsie
[7:30] Okay, all right.
[7:31] Nova
[7:32] If there's 305 bricks on an airplane, one falls out. How many are there?
[7:33] Elsie
[7:34] 304.
[7:35] Nova
[7:36] All right, how do you put an elephant in the fridge?
[7:37] Elsie
[7:38] I don't know.
[7:39] Nova
[7:40] You open the door, you put him in. You close the door. How do you put a giraffe in the fridge?
[7:41] Elsie
[7:42] You open it up, put him in and close the door.
[7:43] Nova
[7:44] No, you forgot one part. You open the door, you take the elephant out, and then you put him in. The
[7:45] Lion King is hosting a party. Out of all the animals, which animals missing?
[7:46] Elsie
[7:47] Ooh, the hyena?
[7:48] Nova
[7:49] No, it's the giraffe, because he's stuck in the refrigerator. And then Sally's going to the party, and she
[7:50] has to cross a river of very hungry looking crocodiles. How does she survive?
[7:51] Elsie
[7:52] How?
[7:53] Nova
[7:54] They're at the party, but she still dies. How?
[7:55] Elsie
[7:56] I don't know. How?
[7:57] Nova
[7:58] From the brick at the beginning one. That's the end of the riddle.
[7:59] Elsie
[8:00] Wow, that's an interesting riddle. I've never heard that one. Have a good week.
[8:01] Nova
[8:02] Bye.
[8:03] Elsie
[8:04] All right. Thank you so much for listening. So we are fresh out of hot takes for our segment. Hot take
[8:05] debate. If you have a hot take, email it to us at podcast@abeautifulmess.com and the other request we
[8:06] have is we are really debating if we're going to do. Do summer, if we're going to do the whole summer
[8:07] schedule, if we're going to do every other week, if we're going to do one a month, we just don't know.
[8:08] But the truth is, we need more ideas. Yeah, if we're going to do them, it's possible still, but we need
[8:09] more ideas. So email us your request specifically for like, your dream episode request at podcast at a
[8:10] beautiful mess.com and we will try our best to fill the summer for you.

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