# #296: Books That Changed How We See the World

An episode of [A Beautiful Mess Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1485472892), 20 Apr 2026, 52 min.

Audio: https://mgln.ai/e/498/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.libsyn.com/secure/abmpodcast/ABM_EP296_Final.mp3?dest-id=1624655

This week we're talking about the books that genuinely shifted how we see the world — not just 5 star reads, but the ones that rewired our thinking and books we still find ourselves talking about years later. Thank you to this week's sponsor: Make sure to go to Biologica.com/MESS and get up to 32% off your first subscription order today! Just use code \[MESS\] for 15% off the Premium Starter Kit at BranchBasics.com. Elsie's books: Jurassic Park by Michael Crichton Station Eleven by Emily Sr. John Mandel Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro Emma's books: Brave New World by Aldous Huxley The Poisonwood Bible by Barbara Kingsolver Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen Nonfiction Bonus: Elsie: Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert and Supercommunicators by Charles Duhigg Emma: The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt Book Report: Elsie: The Astral Library by Kate Quinn Emma: One Golden Summer by Carley Fortune You can support us by leaving us a couple of 5 star recipe reviews this week at abeautifulmess.com Have a topic idea for the podcast? Write in to us at podcast@abeautifulmess.com or leave us a voicemail at 417-893-0011.

## Transcript

[0:00] Emma
[0:01] You're listening to the A Beautiful Mess podcast, your cozy comfort listen. I'm your host, Emma
[0:02] Chapman.
[0:03] Elsie
[0:04] And I'm your host, Elsie Larson.
[0:05] Emma
[0:06] And this week, we're talking about the books that genuinely shifted how we see the world, not just five
[0:07] star reads, not just books we love, but the ones that rewired our thinking and books that we still find
[0:08] ourselves talking about years later.
[0:09] Elsie
[0:10] I love this episode so much. So before we jump in, I have this like fun parasocial relationship story from
[0:11] this past week.
[0:12] Emma
[0:13] What is parasocial? I don't even what that means.
[0:14] Elsie
[0:15] So parasocial relationship is the relationship that you have with someone you feel like you know, but
[0:16] they don't know you. So like, for me magazine, like, I feel like Alice Hoffman is my best friend, but she,
[0:17] in fact, would not recognize me at the grocery store.
[0:18] Emma
[0:19] Okay, so kind of celebrities, so kind of being a fan girl, right?
[0:20] Elsie
[0:21] Kind of that, and it mostly happens online. Okay, so this is my funny story. It's so weird, but I kind of
[0:22] love it. So a couple weeks ago, I did this Instagram Q and A, you know, I love the Instagram Q and A.
[0:23] Emma's not on Instagram anymore, so she didn't see any of this. I didn't Okay, so I did the Q and A,
[0:24] and I got like, multiple questions that were like, Are you and Jeremy still married? Are you divorced?
[0:25] And I had gotten one the time before, so I was like, Oh my God. Like, because when you get one, it's
[0:26] like, who cares? But when you start getting like, more like, it's over and over.
[0:27] Emma
[0:28] You're like, people are seeing something that I'm not putting out. What's right?
[0:29] Elsie
[0:30] So I was like, Did I say something? Is it because I never remember to wear my rings? Is it because I
[0:31] literally never show a photo of him? But I feel like a lot of people don't show a photo of their photo of
[0:32] their husband anyway, so I just put it out there, like, Why? Why do people think this? And I got like,
[0:33] 1000 DMS. I've never gotten this many DMS. It was so like I got where I couldn't read them all, and it
[0:34] people had all kinds of theories. Verdict, there was a lot of theories, many okay? So people who
[0:35] listened to the podcast were like, I would never think that, because I listen to the podcast and you
[0:36] mention him, right? So it's like, obvious. And then a lot of people were like, I was wondering the same
[0:37] thing, because I just don't show them. And then someone said it is, like a more of a reflection on, like
[0:38] the millennial early bloggers, because a lot of you guys are getting divorced that I thought was fair.
[0:39] Okay, yeah, it's divorce time decade. That is fair. I got my divorce when I was 24 so I am fully done with
[0:40] ahead of the game as usual, right? And then one prayer. Okay. So my very favorite comment, someone
[0:41] said, yeah, when you moved back to Missouri, I thought you left him in Nashville. Oh, gosh, that was
[0:42] my favorite. So anyway, I told him, because he's also not really on Instagram. So I was like, I just want
[0:43] to warn you, this is funny, but I a lot of people thought we were getting a divorce, and he was like,
[0:44] Whoa, oh, wait, oh, I felt like his reaction was gonna be like, Huh? I mean, it kind of was. He was, like,
[0:45] very curious why. And then when there wasn't really a reason, he was like, who cares? So, yeah, um,
[0:46] anyway, it's just for fun. But yeah, I think it's, it is, like, so interesting to be. I feel like a human
[0:47] experiment being an early influencer, you know I mean, and the experiment continues like even when I
[0:48] feel like I have fully separated my identity from, like our early blogger times, but other people haven't.
[0:49] You know what I mean, and it's like, you can't control what people think, like, it's just so interesting. So
[0:50] anyway, I have never, I don't think I've ever noticed. I think I'm not a very good internet detective,
[0:51] because I have never suspected, like, when, when people announce their divorces. I'm always
[0:52] surprised.
[0:53] Emma
[0:54] Oh yeah, yeah.
[0:55] Elsie
[0:56] So I don't think I'm the type of person who would like, notice or spectulate.
[0:57] Emma
[0:58] I've had times too that you told me a friend got a divorce. I'm not gonna say their names, you know?
[0:59] And I was like, what? And you were like, yeah, it was a year ago. And I was like, what? Like, I didn't you
[1:00] know.
[1:01] Elsie
[1:02] Lots of times you find out people who got divorced a while ago. So that is a common thing online, and
[1:03] in that way I can kind of get it.
[1:04] Emma
[1:05] Yeah, I feel like, too I kind of now because I've been off for a while now, which I'll get back on
[1:06] eventually. I'm not, like, against it, but yeah, I'm also just, I've just been off, and I feel like, in some weird
[1:07] ways, my brain has returned to, like, the time before, like my old high school brain or something, where
[1:08] I kind of forget about, oh, people think things on the internet like it, like, in a way, you're like, you're
[1:09] describing this. And I'm like, why would anyone have a theory about your marriage? Like, I'm confused.
[1:10] And then I'm like, Well, of course they would. They watch her all the time. Like, this is not, you know,
[1:11] like, my little brain that's like, oh yeah, I was on the internet for so long. Is like, obviously. And then my
[1:12] new. Brain that's regrowing from my old past life is like, what like this? Just sign of like, these two
[1:13] dynamics in there all the time. And it's very strange. It makes me feel very out of touch. I feel like, when
[1:14] you say you're out of touch, people think it means you don't know what's going on in the news. And
[1:15] that's true. But also it's like a different level of being out of touch, where I'm like, I don't understand how
[1:16] the humans interact, because I haven't been interacting with them in this way that everybody does, and
[1:17] I've just kind of lost that muscle or whatever, but I remember a little bit, but, like, it just takes when you
[1:18] bring something up like that. I'm like, why would anyone even speculate about you? But of course they
[1:19] would. Yeah, it's, I don't know.
[1:20] Elsie
[1:21] It honestly, like entertained me for an afternoon, so that was fun. So this week we are talking about
[1:22] books that change how we see the world. I love this topic, and I want to give my caveat up front. Yeah,
[1:23] it's caveat time.
[1:24] Emma
[1:25] What have we ever done the caveat at the end? Actually, we probably do.
[1:26] Elsie
[1:27] It's usually at the beginning, middle and end.
[1:28] Emma
[1:29] It's beginning, middle, and end. Yeah. This podcast is renamed to caveat.
[1:30] Elsie
[1:31] So my caveat is, I told myself, when I was outlining and working like, on the prep for this episode, I'm
[1:32] gonna mention all books that I don't talk about all the time on the podcast, like I'm gonna mention new
[1:33] books. And I went through my good reads of every single book, and I still ended up picking books that I
[1:34] mentioned often. So I'm sorry I did try, but I feel like, when you're going for something this big, like it's
[1:35] not favorite books, but it kind of is, you know, I still had to pick my favorites. So I really tried. I really,
[1:36] really tried.
[1:37] Emma
[1:38] Yeah, I did not even try, okay, and I still ended up in the same place you did. So there you have. I
[1:39] mainly would say, as you were telling me, because Elsie does our outlines, she does more work for this
[1:40] than me, if you can't tell but as you were telling me this idea, I was like, Oh, I love this topic so much.
[1:41] Because I just love how books, but also art can be entertainment, it can just be provocative, it can just
[1:42] be beautiful, or it can change the way you see the world, and that's so fun. Like, my favorite thing about
[1:43] books, I don't know there's so many things I love about them, but like, I feel like it's given me such a
[1:44] window into other people's lives, and like, really helped me grow my empathy muscle over the course of
[1:45] my whole life, including, like, you know, I became a reader, like middle school, like outside of school,
[1:46] obviously. And yeah, I just feel like it makes me see people's lives that I would I would never have a
[1:47] chance to see otherwise. And yes, it's fiction. It's not real, it's fake. But I still think so many writers are
[1:48] trying to get it right. They're trying to show us, you know, the lives of a sex worker, someone with
[1:49] autism, so, you know, just stuff that, like, I don't have any experience with, and I would love to know,
[1:50] you know, someone else's life and their interiority and what they go through. And so fiction is, like, one
[1:51] way you get to do that, and I think it's really fun, and I love it. And it can, like, change your worldview in
[1:52] so many ways, and just sometimes you, like, learn something about like, like video games. I'm not, I'm
[1:53] not a gamer. Love learning about like someone else, someone who's passionate about something. It's
[1:54] just like, fun. So, yeah, I love books that are just purely entertainment. That's great, and that's a lot of
[1:55] stuff we talk about. But I was excited that today we're going to talk about books that are like, they're
[1:56] probably fun. Mine were fun to read, but they also just kept me thinking. And some of them healed me.
[1:57] Some of them I think about years and years and years later. And I just love that. I think it's like, special
[1:58] that books can do that, and any art movies do it too. Like, you know, just storytelling, I think, has the
[1:59] opportunity to change us. And I think that's really powerful and fun.
[2:00] Elsie
[2:01] Yes, I agree. I think it's so interesting how some novels have like, one day of your life, or one, you know,
[2:02] three days, two days. Like, how, you know, one, one plane ride sometimes, yeah. And then some of
[2:03] them live in your mind for 10 years, yeah, like, and just what a big difference that is, and that it's not
[2:04] good or bad it's but it just is like, and you can't always predict why some of them have these longer lives
[2:05] internally than others.
[2:06] Emma
[2:07] Yeah, so let's talk about some of these books. I think we're each picking three, yeah, so it's not an
[2:08] infinite number here. So we get to really dive deep on each one. So what's your first one?
[2:09] Elsie
[2:10] So my first one, I was unable to pick any other book for my first one, like it just has to be Jurassic Park
[2:11] by Michael Crichton, first and foremost. It was my childhood special book. It was my first adult novel
[2:12] that I read as a child. I'm pretty sure I was in fourth grade or fifth grade.
[2:13] Emma
[2:14] And you had that feeling of like I read this whole book.
[2:15] Elsie
[2:16] Yeah I had that feeling. I had my little mass market paper book, and I remember I finished it in, you
[2:17] know, those bunk those Trundle bunk beds at our grandma Karina's house.
[2:18] Emma
[2:19] Yes, those were scary sometimes you couldn't get it open.
[2:20] Elsie
[2:21] They were scary. So, yeah, it transports me to being a fifth grader like so powerfully. So I think that's a
[2:22] part of it, and I will give it that, but there's more. Okay. So what I think is special about Jurassic Park is
[2:23] it's kind of my scope for how real fiction can become. Because the book, you like a lot of people,
[2:24] including my self as a child and sometimes now believe the science in the book, which is pretend like
[2:25] but it is so compelling and it feels so real inside the pages that it feels like inevitable, like we will have
[2:26] dinosaurs on Earth and it will kind of how it'll happen, yeah, like, almost like he did a prediction of future
[2:27] science, yeah. And that is not true. I've read about it a lot because I just curious, like, How real is it? It's
[2:28] not very real. It's not very scientifically viable at all. It is just great storytelling, yeah, and so, yeah, I think
[2:29] it's also the best.
[2:30] Emma
[2:31] Here's my story about that. Okay, as an adult, so you're a fifth grader in the story. As an adult, I
[2:32] watched The Martian, and I was like, Yeah, that's so cool. How many times have we been to Mars?
[2:33] Like, that's what my brain did. That's how much I believed that storytelling, we have not grown potatoes
[2:34] on Mars, if anyone's curious, okay, okay, keep going. Jurassic Park, yeah.
[2:35] Elsie
[2:36] And there's other writers I could kind of group in with this. I think Andy, where he's a great example. I
[2:37] also think Margaret Atwood, from The Handmaid's Tale, is like, in a more terrifying, horrible way, has
[2:38] made something so compellingly real.
[2:39] Emma
[2:40] She's scarier than Stephen King. Take that Stephen King.
[2:41] Elsie
[2:42] nN, I think it's much scarier.
[2:43] Emma
[2:44] Oh, yeah, she's terrifing.
[2:45] Elsie
[2:46] She's a master, yeah. So anyway, yeah. I also think that Jurassic Park is one of the best high concept
[2:47] hooks ever. That's something I've been learning about this year to try to work on my own writing. And
[2:48] it's like, it's amazing. Like you just, you kind of just can't write a better hook than that. So it's incredible.
[2:49] And okay, I have heard so prologs are like, this funny thing in writing. They're frowned upon. And I
[2:50] guess, like, a lot of new writers want to put prologs, and they end up being, like, not very compelling
[2:51] and like, not adding a lot to the story. But Jurassic Park is considered one of the good examples of a
[2:52] prolog, yeah, so, and there's not that many where it's like, these are good examples outside of fantasy
[2:53] of a prolog. So anyway, if you care about that, it's also, it's a fun book, I think, to study for so many
[2:54] different reasons. But yeah, that is my first one. And I think that also it's just like, lived in my heart in a
[2:55] magical way, like it started something inside of me, like this love of like dinosaurs and science that I
[2:56] probably would never have had, and it's never gone away my entire life.
[2:57] Emma
[2:58] Yeah, I think that science fiction is the book I'm about to talk about is also science fiction. So here's my
[2:59] segue. Okay, no, I don't know, but I do think science fiction has this ability to, like, tell us an amazing
[3:00] story that just grabs us, but then also make us think about the world in a more philosophical way. So
[3:01] Jurassic Park, there's a lot of themes in the book, but one is kind of about how, like, you can't control
[3:02] nature, or like a scientist who creates something, and then his creation becomes sort of a monster. So
[3:03] a little bit of a Frankenstein story, in a way, because the dinosaurs get out of their cages and, you know,
[3:04] all those things. So, yeah, it's just kind of about how you shouldn't play God a little bit if you wanted to,
[3:05] like, simplify it to something. And I think that's an interesting theme. And showing it, showing it to us
[3:06] with a compelling story about dinosaurs is really going to drive the point home so much more than you
[3:07] know, some boring story or whatever. So anyway, on that note, science fiction, my first book is Brave
[3:08] New World.
[3:09] Elsie
[3:10] Oh, okay, I've never read this. Ok, give it to me.
[3:11] Emma
[3:12] So you've never read it.
[3:13] Elsie
[3:14] No.
[3:15] Emma
[3:16] Okay, it's pretty short. You should read it. It's fun. It's an oldie, oldie, but a goodie. Okay, so I read this in
[3:17] college. I think I was a sophomore, so second year of college, want to say. And I had been a fan of
[3:18] science fiction for a while, but also fantasy. Like, yeah, I was a reader, but I couldn't always put my
[3:19] finger on what it was about science fiction that, like, really drove it home for me. And I read this book in
[3:20] a philosophy class. I had just changed my major from art to philosophy because I had a plan. No, I
[3:21] didn't know. I didn't this class was like philosophy of literature. So I think we read like five novels, and
[3:22] we talked about the philosophical ideas behind them, and the first one, or one of the first ones, was
[3:23] brave new world. And if you're not familiar with the book, like I was telling I'll see it's it's pretty short. You
[3:24] should definitely read it. Listen to it. It's a lot of fun. It's science fiction. It's also a dystopian future. So it's
[3:25] set far, far in the future. It's London, far in the future. And the world is a totalitarian world, where
[3:26] humans are like created in test tubes, and there's different classes, and there is no mobility between
[3:27] the classes. You just are what you are. They grow new humans, and people are controlled through
[3:28] pleasure, consumerism and drugs. I think the drug is like called sonama or something. There's a
[3:29] fictional drug in the book, and the government sort of dispenses these things and controls people
[3:30] through them these ways. And so the book kind of follows a couple different characters, but at the end
[3:31] of the day, it's kind of about breaking out of the class system, leaving that, you know, controlling state.
[3:32] But I would say it's kind of about safety versus freedom. And I think the idea of controlling people
[3:33] through pleasure, consumerism and drugs is really interesting. I would add to that list. Now, if I was
[3:34] writing the book, something about social media or phones or, you know, that kind of thing, and then it's
[3:35] also like, like I said, I was reading it in college, so I was fairly young, I think it's a little bit too about
[3:36] finding your place in the world or accepting who you are and what you want like, instead of running
[3:37] from your desires and like the things inside of us, embracing them and trying to figure out how to make
[3:38] them work in the world, or maybe they don't, if the world is a very dystopian future, yeah, so it's, it's very
[3:39] rich in themes. It's kind of a wacky story, but I think it's really, really good, really fun, and it's a classic.
[3:40] And, yeah, I still think about it from time to time. I actually this so random side note, but when I got
[3:41] married, I wanted to do the thing where you hollow out a book for your your ring book. So the ring
[3:42] bearer carried a book down the aisle, and our rings were tied inside of the book, and the book was
[3:43] brave new world.
[3:44] Elsie
[3:45] Oh, did you guys take that class together?
[3:46] Emma
[3:47] We did.
[3:48] Elsie
[3:49] They were philosophy students together. Isn't that cute?
[3:50] Emma
[3:51] That's how we met, yeah. So anyway, should you use a dystopian future book for your wedding? I don't
[3:52] know, but I did.
[3:53] Elsie
[3:54] I don't see a problem with it.
[3:55] Emma
[3:56] Yeah, I think it's pretty cool.
[3:57] Elsie
[3:58] Actually, wonderful. Yeah, that sounds very fun. I'm excited to read it.
[3:59] Emma
[4:00] Okay, it's good, it's weird. You'll like it. I think you'll like it.
[4:01] Elsie
[4:02] I think so. My second book is Station 11. The reason, there's two reasons, two huge reasons, why I had
[4:03] to choose this book. The first one is that it gave me literal nightmares, and that this is one of my I am a
[4:04] little bit of a nightmare person, and this is one of my favorite things. The other night, I got one from a
[4:05] movie. I was telling Emma about it. It was the Sophia Coppola movie, The Bling Ring. Seen it anyway.
[4:06] Okay, we don't need to worry about that right now. So, station 11, actually, okay, actually, I'll be honest, I
[4:07] first watched the TV show before I read the book. So I had never even heard of this book at the time
[4:08] the TV show came out, which shows you exactly how literate I was in my 20s and 30s. Like it. Yeah,
[4:09] you can learn a lot from that. So anyway, we started watching the TV show, which is incredible and a
[4:10] little bit different plotting from the book. So I think that you have to do both. They're both so beautiful
[4:11] and so good, and they sort of emphasize different characters. And yeah. So anyway, it was actually
[4:12] after we watched the first episode of the TV show that I had this nightmare. It was the best nightmare of
[4:13] my entire life. Whoa. I know I dreamed that I was together with Emma and our co worker, Jackie, and
[4:14] we were on a trip, and there was, like an outbreak of a flu, and I and I was like trying to get away from
[4:15] people, but someone came to talk to me, and I to talk to me, and I knew in that moment that I was
[4:16] never gonna see my kids again, and like the scariest. But I think that that, I think that's why station 11
[4:17] lives inside of me so powerfully, is because it is so frightening and it felt so real. So anyway, that was
[4:18] fun. And then the things I really like about the story are dwelling on, like, what would be left like if we
[4:19] lost the internet, we lost electricity, we had no more antibiotics, you know, we had no more health care.
[4:20] We you know, we lose. You would lose so much, you know, you would lose your ability to talk to anyone
[4:21] who's not in your immediate proximity. You would lose countless things. But what would be left over? I
[4:22] think, is an interesting thing to dwell on. And in her story, a lot of it ends up being art. And there's. Like
[4:23] people who are doing theater, who are performing Shakespeare, and they're keeping that alive for
[4:24] themselves and for the remaining people around them, and they're traveling around sharing it. And it's
[4:25] a beautiful story in that way, just to think about like, what would we still have books are another thing,
[4:26] and then what would we long for and miss for? You know, I like, I love thinking about that. What would I
[4:27] miss the most in a world like that? And, I mean, probably traveling. But there's a lot of things, and it's
[4:28] actually like, yeah, it's a really heavy thing to think about. But for some reason, I really enjoy it, and it's
[4:29] just a part of my brain that like needs, needs that for some reason. Anyway, the last thing I love about
[4:30] station 11 is so my favorite trope of them all, one trope to rule them all, is a book within a book. I love it
[4:31] when there's a book within a book in any story, and it happens pretty often, but not as often as I wish it
[4:32] would. In the books that I read. And in this story, there is a comic book, and in the TV show, I feel like
[4:33] they like pulled the narrative even farther with the comic book, and they created some of it, and I've
[4:34] been deep into her Reddit threads, Reddit she has this like Reddit thread interviews and stuff like that.
[4:35] So anyway, yeah, she said that at some point the comic book will be a real book that you can buy, that
[4:36] they were planning to produce it. And I hope that that's true, because I deeply want this book. Like, so
[4:37] bad, yeah? Like, that's just one of my favorite things about a book within a book is that you can't have
[4:38] it, but it seems so real to you, and it just like, creates this, like, this yearning.
[4:39] Emma
[4:40] Yeah, it's the ultimate supply and demand, because the demand is high and there is literally no supply
[4:41] unless she makes it, which would be really cool.
[4:42] Elsie
[4:43] Yeah, I saw someone on Tiktok that was talking about, you know, the book The Magicians. Yeah. So it's
[4:44] a series, and I haven't read it yet, but she said that in the series, there are these books that are not real.
[4:45] But at the time that it was coming out, the author made them look real on websites, like there was
[4:46] some, like, marketing there. Oh, that's fine. And it like broke her heart so much. She was still a child, I
[4:47] think, and she like, searched for months to try to get these books that don't exist. And I just think stuff
[4:48] like that is so compelling. So, yeah, what's your next book?
[4:49] Emma
[4:50] My next one is The Poisonwood Bible.
[4:51] Elsie
[4:52] Ah, I'm so glad you picked that. I wanted to pick it.
[4:53] Emma
[4:54] I had to when I saw you didn't pick it, because I was like, Oh, she'll probably pick this. But okay, so this
[4:55] is a Barbara Kingsolver book, and it was actually the first of her books that I ever read. So number one,
[4:56] this launched my lifelong love of Barbara Kingsolver books. So that is just that alone is probably
[4:57] something to mention, because I've read almost all of her books. I have not read Demon Copperhead
[4:58] yet, but it's on my list, but I think I've read almost every other book. I know it sounded so sad, it
[4:59] sounded beautiful, but so sad.
[5:00] Elsie
[5:01] She's one of those authors that is so good that you have to ration her books, and you shouldn't read
[5:02] them all in a row.
[5:03] Emma
[5:04] When I fell in love with her, I did not know this tip. I just went to the library get everything off shelf. So
[5:05] anyway, okay, but the poison would Bible specifically, it's kind of about the downfall of a Baptist
[5:06] missionary. So he takes his family to Africa to spread the word of God, and he's not able to adapt to the
[5:07] culture. He does it wrong, you could say. And he has sort of a chaotic and tragic ending, and the family
[5:08] kind of has a lot of tragedy. One one person, aside from him, dies. I don't want to spoil too much, even
[5:09] though it's a pretty old book, but what I would say for me with the book was I grew up Southern Baptist,
[5:10] and at the time that I read this, I was just sort of coming out of that, or I would say, looking at it more
[5:11] critically. I was just getting to an age and getting to a place in my life where I was looking at it more
[5:12] critically, but I feel like that became something that a lot of us did over time. When it was first
[5:13] happening, for me, the Internet was young, so I think I just wasn't able to connect with as many people
[5:14] who were going through that, or perhaps maybe not as many people were going through it. Yet. I'm not
[5:15] really sure it was a time where.
[5:16] Elsie
[5:17] I think people have been going through it for centuries.
[5:18] Emma
[5:19] I think so too. I think I just the internet was still kind of young, and we so I wasn't able to talk with people
[5:20] about it as free as I feel like we're able to now, which is nice, because it's nice to be able to process
[5:21] your so anyway, I found a lot of healing in this book, not because I think you could look at it be like, oh,
[5:22] so there is sort of this. Hinge on a Baptist missionary, and it's like, no, I don't I didn't really view it that
[5:23] way. I just remember feeling like, Okay, I'm not crazy. When I read that book, I remember feeling like,
[5:24] okay. There are a lot of ways to look at this, and it's okay that I feel a lot of conflicting things inside me
[5:25] about what I believed growing up, how it seems to be evolving in me, and I'm not sure I agree with
[5:26] some parts of it anymore. And I'm I'm feeling very like, Am I crazy? Is something wrong with me? And I
[5:27] feel like this book gave me a lot of like, healing around that, a lot of like, No, you're not crazy. There's a
[5:28] lot of lot of things going on here, and some are good, some are bad. It's good to be processing. And for
[5:29] a lot of the characters, the family, the daughters, they go on to have good lives, they're able to get out
[5:30] of this chaotic and sad situation and move forward. And I think that also kind of helped me see like,
[5:31] well, you're going to move forward. You're just processing through this right now, and you know, it's not
[5:32] so great at the moment. You're feeling like you're losing a lot of community and friends, but just keep
[5:33] going and be honest with yourself and be kind to yourself and others, and we're just going to keep
[5:34] looking at this. And I just I felt less alone reading this book, and so it meant a lot to me at the time.
[5:35] Yeah, so thank you, Barbara.
[5:36] Elsie
[5:37] Yeah, we love you, Barbara, it is real trauma to break away from the religion you were raised in, and I
[5:38] think that when you don't know that and you aren't validated, it's very confusing, very lonely. And I felt
[5:39] the same way, like it just feels like you're like your world is crumbling, yeah, and you don't know how to
[5:40] piece it back together. Yeah. For years, Emma told me to read the poison wood Bible and I based on
[5:41] the title, knowing nothing else, I had an expectation that it was going to I was in my nonfiction era
[5:42] before I got into fiction, so I had this perception that it was going to sort of cleanly dismantle something,
[5:43] and it did not. It was very messy. It left it messy. It left just like it. Just left it there for you to think about
[5:44] for yourself. And that it was the first time I had read a book like that. So it was very life changing for me
[5:45] as well. And I'll never, I'll never forget that book. And can I say one more?
[5:46] Emma
[5:47] One more? Yeah, I have one more random thing about this too. So yeah, go ahead.
[5:48] Elsie
[5:49] I just learned that Barbara kingsolvers new book is going to be set in the classical music world. And I'm
[5:50] so excited. I know I'm so excited.
[5:51] Emma
[5:52] Yeah, that's very exciting. Yeah, I was gonna say she wrote a nonfiction years later, after poison one
[5:53] Bible called Animal vegetable miracle. It's kind of about just eating food that is local. If I had to sum it
[5:54] up, it's like eating locally. Why that's important, why that might be better for our planet, how she does it
[5:55] on her farm. And at the time, I was living in California, I was pursuing acting, and there were farmers
[5:56] markets, like down the street from my apartment every week. And it was, you know, farmers markets
[5:57] are people who live nearby, who grow things, you get it so, but this was sort of new to me, and so I was
[5:58] just, I was just getting into cooking and food. And really, the book kind of inspired me to start my first
[5:59] food blog, which was a lot about cooking recipes just from things I found at the farmers market or
[6:00] locally. And I didn't really stick with that. Have really deviated from farmer's path on that, but it launched
[6:01] it, and I was just interested in cooking and interested in food. And her writing is just so gorgeous. So
[6:02] any pros about food I'm interested in, and this one happens to be about growing food and consuming
[6:03] food near you. And of course, it's beautiful writing because it's a king solver. So yeah, beautiful.
[6:04] Elsie
[6:05] All right, my final book is Never Let Me Go by Kazu Ishiguro. So this story, I first saw it as the movie in, I
[6:06] don't know, maybe 2010 ish, sometime in there, there was a great movie. I watched it again recently,
[6:07] and it's gorgeous, but the book is much more beautiful even. So, yeah, why I love this book? It is a
[6:08] story. It's sort of mysterious, it's sort of literary. It is a story about clones. And I have, like, a deep,
[6:09] unrelenting love of clone and robot stories that is just kind of one of my side quests in life, and it always
[6:10] has been since that the, I think the 1999 AI movie. Do you remember when I talked about that and I,
[6:11] like, revealed it was my favorite movie of all time. That's real? Yeah, it's just a category that I love. And I
[6:12] think that when you get a chance for, like, beautiful. Full literary writing to be married together with a
[6:13] theme that you personally are just obsessed with, that is like the best intersection in books. I just love it.
[6:14] So anyway, the thing I love about this book is that it kind of healed my fear of death, which is a crazy
[6:15] thing to say, but let me explain. I think I've always had like a normal fear of death. I wouldn't say like an
[6:16] outsized, just a normal, like, just your average, normal, boring fear of death, right? But when I read this
[6:17] story, the thing that I took from it was that their short little lives were sort of just as full and had just as
[6:18] big of an emotional arc as our normal, long old people lives. And that it kind of, you know, doesn't
[6:19] matter, in a way. And I don't know about the now, yeah, and it made me realize that, like, it's kind of like,
[6:20] not about how much time you have in life, but it's more like, how, like, I don't know, like, who you love,
[6:21] what you do with your time, what you what you do with the choices that you do have. So yeah, it was
[6:22] very inspiring, and it just kind of gave me a different perspective that I still don't really understand why it
[6:23] meant that much to me, but it did. It like, unlocked something, and now I am, like, not very afraid of
[6:24] dying. And my husband thinks it's weird, like, how much I'm like, fine with it, but I don't know. I think it's
[6:25] great. I think it's like, if you're able to have that so anyway, read the book, see if it does something for
[6:26] you. But yeah, I think it's a gorgeous book. I've heard people we yeah, we get a lot of emails from
[6:27] people who don't like the books we recommend. And do we read? Well, I do. I think they actually might
[6:28] be Instagram DMs.
[6:29] Emma
[6:30] Actually, I'd never have read one where people are like.
[6:31] Elsie
[6:32] Really, I get them all the time, and it's always the same three books, and this is one of them that not
[6:33] everyone loves it. It's just not for everyone. That's okay, but I'm gonna recommend it until I die, because
[6:34] it means so much to me, and I think it's just a beautiful story.
[6:35] Emma
[6:36] I don't know how you cannot love this book. Yeah, so that's the camp I'm in.
[6:37] Elsie
[6:38] Yeah, I'm just gonna throw in. He also has a robot book called Clara and the sun, and it is incredible as
[6:39] well. It's getting an adaptation, so it is a good time to read it right now.
[6:40] Emma
[6:41] Yeah, I'm excited to see that, because I liked that book a lot. He also wrote Remains of the Day. And it
[6:42] has an old movie that's really lovely too.
[6:43] Elsie
[6:44] Yes, oh, it has an Anthony Hopkins.
[6:45] Emma
[6:46] Yes, Emma Thompson's in it.
[6:47] Elsie
[6:48] It's lovely. I think Anthony Hopkins is my oldest human celebrity crush. I don't know why I said human.
[6:49] Emma
[6:50] I assume because you have some non humans on the list, that was the assumption I made.
[6:51] Elsie
[6:52] She's thinking about, I think it's from West world. But anyway, let's, let's move on.
[6:53] Emma
[6:54] Okay, okay, okay, my third one is Pride and Prejudice. Jane Austen.
[6:55] Elsie
[6:56] I've never read this, which is crazy, so give it to me like a person who's never read it. Okay?
[6:57] Emma
[6:58] So this was the first historical book that I ever read outside of school, and I always thought a historical
[6:59] book would be boring, and it changed my perspective on that, where I was like, this was not boring.
[7:00] This was a lot of fun. They took so many walks in the woods, and I was like, what's gonna happen?
[7:01] Like, it's just like, Wow, that's pretty good writing. So there's that. I'll also say this is probably the first
[7:02] book I read that is a romance. Wow, I don't know if it's technically a romance. I think it is, but I don't
[7:03] really know. I mean, when it was written, I don't know if they were so strong on the genres, you know,
[7:04] but I think it would be shelved that way, I assume. So. Yeah, it was first book I read that was a romance.
[7:05] And as anyone listening knows I love romance. It's one of my top genres. It's my comfort genre. Love it.
[7:06] So it opened my my door for that too. And I think too, it's just like a fun read. So a lot of historical works.
[7:07] As a woman, when you read historical books, a lot of times, you're kind of faced with the fact that, until
[7:08] pretty recently, people like me didn't have a lot of choices. Yeah, and I think that, you know, like, I read
[7:09] this pretty young. I was, like, in high school, but, you know, it's just one of those things you grapple with,
[7:10] and it makes you feel grateful. It also makes you kind of look at, okay, well, these are the choices they
[7:11] had. Here's what they did with them. Maybe I don't have every choice in the world, but what am I going
[7:12] to do with them? Kind of same thing you're saying with Never Let Me Go. So yeah, I liked that. I think
[7:13] books about young women being courageous in whatever way, whenever you're a young woman who
[7:14] wants to be courageous, they're powerful books for you, and this one definitely fit the bill for me. So
[7:15] yeah, Pride and Prejudice forever.
[7:16] Elsie
[7:17] It's always in the top first lines, like opening lines, in writing courses, because it has a great opening
[7:18] line. So definitely check that out.
[7:19] Emma
[7:20] It's great writing. Really.
[7:21] Elsie
[7:22] I'm excited to read it. I can't believe it's taken me this long. It's it's embarrassing. I should be humiliated.
[7:23] Okay, we have a non fiction bonus round bonus time. I have two two fur so I will die on this hill. I want
[7:24] everyone in the world to read Supercommunicators by Charles Duhigg. So this is the most impactful
[7:25] non fiction book I've ever read. I think that in a time when, if you're like me, you struggle to
[7:26] communicate in real life like you might have certain family members, certain situations, and then also
[7:27] communicating on the internet has gone from bad to worse. It's not great. So this book such an
[7:28] incredible way to learn what works like, what kind of communicating has a chance to get through to the
[7:29] other side with the message you intended? And you know, instead of just like yelling and feeling like
[7:30] you're screaming into, you know, the blank space.
[7:31] Emma
[7:32] Get off my lawn.
[7:33] Elsie
[7:34] Yes, this book actually, like, teaches you some skills. And I think that everyone should read it. I like I'm
[7:35] constantly begging my husband to read it. It's just great. And then my second book is Big Magic by
[7:36] Elizabeth Gilbert. I am on an endless loop with this one. I will probably reread it every five years till
[7:37] death.
[7:38] Emma
[7:39] Will never shut up about it.
[7:40] Elsie
[7:41] I won't ever, never. I won't I just, I think it's just so wonderful. It introduced me to Anne Patchett. I didn't
[7:42] know who she was before I read this book, and now she's one of my favorite writers. And, yeah, it just
[7:43] has lots of wonderful advice for creative people. There's a lot of stuff in there about like, how to rebuild
[7:44] after you've had a big success, and then you're kind of flopping, which is something that I've recently
[7:45] experienced in my life. It was very helpful to me. Yeah. I mean, you're lucky to get to experience that
[7:46] sort of thing, but with all success comes this like pressure to always follow up with it with equal
[7:47] success, which I think is something that everyone should learn about and be prepared for in careers.
[7:48] So anyway, great books. What's your nonfiction list?
[7:49] Emma
[7:50] I was like, what book do I feel like I reference all the time? What do I because I've read a lot of great
[7:51] nonfiction. I was like, you know, honestly, as far as, like, recently, the thing that I think about a lot is The
[7:52] Anxious Generation, which I think is a great book and really made me start thinking more critically
[7:53] about my own phone usage. I have young kids. They don't use phones right now, but someday they will
[7:54] have phones or tablets or whatever, you know, they'll go to school and they're going to use stuff. And,
[7:55] you know, I'm thinking about that. I'm looking at, I'm looking at what's happening in our country, what
[7:56] legislation is happening locally and broad. And it's, it's interesting. I also feel like that book has had
[7:57] such an impact on, you know, current events, because I think most parents and people generally, we're
[7:58] like, what are the effects of technology on our brains? And also, yeah, a lot of tech is owned by, like,
[7:59] these top three companies. Is that good? Is that bad? I mean, they're just companies. They're not like
[8:00] necessarily out for our good. I think they're out for our money, sort of like what the deal is in a free
[8:01] market economy. So it's just, you know, something that you know made me think a lot still makes me
[8:02] think a lot still kind of is in choices I'm making daily. And so, yeah, I really liked it. And I think there's
[8:03] some controversy around the book and some controversy around the author. I love this book. I thought
[8:04] it was really worth listening to, worth reading. S
[8:05] Elsie
[8:06] The pushback I've heard to it is that some of the advice isn't realistic, sure, you know. And I think that's
[8:07] one of the hardest things about raising your kids in this cell phone social media era is that you know
[8:08] you want to protect them for as long as possible, but also it's our responsibility to prepare them to be
[8:09] able to do all this on their own eventually. And you know, responsibly, and so you do have to give them
[8:10] access to be able to learn those skills. And it's like, how you navigate that middle part is something that
[8:11] I still have a lot of questions about.
[8:12] Emma
[8:13] Yeah, and I don't really feel like any one book is going to tell us how to parent our children. Yeah. I just
[8:14] don't really think that's going to happen. I think that, you know, I'm I'm trying to learn a lot about
[8:15] parenting, and I probably will be doing that until my kids are like, leave me alone. I'm an adult, and I
[8:16] think most parents feel that way because it's a hard job, and every kid's different, and they face different
[8:17] challenges. They have different needs. And so I just don't think there's any one solution or one book
[8:18] that's going to do that, but I think getting information. Thinking about things, looking at things. I think it's
[8:19] good. I'm more of a like, Let's gather all the best advice we can, and I'm gonna pick and choose what's
[8:20] making sense for my family at the age my kids is, and I don't really feel any like me personally, any
[8:21] judgment towards what other people are doing with their kids. I'm like, good luck. It's hard out there. I
[8:22] see you. Keep trying, I'm gonna do what I think is best, and that's where I'm at. But sometimes you do
[8:23] have to make decisions as a group, like when you're in schools or things like that, and I think that it just
[8:24] has to be an ongoing conversation where we all have to be honest and kind to each other, but also like,
[8:25] here are my concerns. Here's what I'm, you know, looking at, worried about, what else can you do?
[8:26] Elsie
[8:27] So I love it. I love it. Okay, this hot take is from our listener, Rose. She says, spring is the best season.
[8:28] Yes, I've changed my mind from when I used to think it was autumn. Spring is when the daylight gets
[8:29] longer, the earth comes back to life, and we all feel more energized with so much to look forward to.
[8:30] The fall is great, but only for a few short weeks in fall, the days get shorter, everything starts to die and
[8:31] it gets colder. All right, okay, Rose.
[8:32] Emma
[8:33] First off, you're making some strong points. Yes, I think you know, if you were springs defense attorney,
[8:34] you did your best here. Okay, these are good strong points.
[8:35] Elsie
[8:36] I will say last night, at 6:30pm I was sitting there working, and I was thinking, God, it's so nice that it's
[8:37] still like full sunlight outside right now, and it just like changes the feeling that you have about your time.
[8:38] For me, like my after school hours, between picking my kids up in bedtime, it was so short before, and
[8:39] now it's getting really long, but I'm gonna have to hard disagree. I just, I just can't I will give it to spring
[8:40] that I like seeing the trees bloom again. I like seeing the grass get green. I like flowers. It's not autumn.
[8:41] The reason why I will never not be an autumn to Christmas enthusiast is that those four months of the
[8:42] year are like the coziest that like I pack them with all these favorite things that I don't enjoy the rest of
[8:43] the year. Like it's just, it's this big sensory overload experience, and then in January I crash, and then I
[8:44] wait for it again until September 1.
[8:45] Emma
[8:46] Yeah, then I'm just, I've crashed. I'm down on the ground until Easter, basically.
[8:47] Elsie
[8:48] So I'm glad. I'm happy for people who can appreciate spring as, like, a top season, I love that for you
[8:49] Rose.
[8:50] Emma
[8:51] I mean, I'm with rose in that I appreciate spring and also summer more than I used to, yeah, like,
[8:52] especially as a mom, like, you know, whatever. But my boys love to be outside. So I feel like winter
[8:53] months after Christmas is just tough because I'm just, like, trying to find ways to be active indoors.
[8:54] Yeah. And, I mean, we have a great house, but it's just, you know, it's hard, whereas once they're
[8:55] outside all day, they just are happier, and they just have more they can do and and so I appreciate it so
[8:56] much more. And I love being outside myself. I love the daylight, all those things, but spring does not
[8:57] have Halloween, spring does not have impending Christmas. Spring does not have pumpkin spice. It's
[8:58] just not gonna do it for me. And my colors, by the way, are spring, yeah? But I just, I love you fall, and I
[8:59] will always love you.
[9:00] Elsie
[9:01] Me too. I can't, switch those, but I will say that I think the thing we do agree on is that spring is so much
[9:02] better than winter. Yes, I think we all agree on that. Sorry, winter, but nobody likes you. Nobody. Okay,
[9:03] so we have our book report. Yes, do you? Do you have a book?
[9:04] Emma
[9:05] Yes, this the book I read while we were on our Disney trip. Ooh, okay, go ahead. Okay. My book is One
[9:06] Golden Summer by Carley Fortune. Okay, so this was the first book I read. Well, is it or the second? I
[9:07] think it's the first book I read from the stash of 40 books that you got me for my birthday. I think I'm like
[9:08] starting it on the stash. I've read this. This has now been a few weeks since I read it, but yeah, so
[9:09] anyway, you gave me a few of her books, and I love her, and I loved this, and I took it on my trip, like I
[9:10] said to Disney, because it just felt like it was going to be right up my alley.
[9:11] Elsie
[9:12] A vacationy book.
[9:13] Emma
[9:14] Yes, a vactiony book, a contemporary romance, light, fun, sexy. I just was like, I have feeling this. I
[9:15] could tell by the cover. I was like, Yeah, and it was all those things. It delivered on every account. I
[9:16] loved it. It was super fun. Yeah, if you've read any of her books, this is along those lines. It's set on a
[9:17] lake. There's a lot of like, boating and swimming. And one of the main characters, she's kind of taking
[9:18] care of her El. Early grandma at a lake house one summer, as she kind of rehabilitates from a hip
[9:19] surgery, and she meets the neighbor across the lake, and he's really hot and you know, it was just
[9:20] super fun book. Lovely writing. Loved it. I read it in like five days. Loved it, wonderful.
[9:21] Elsie
[9:22] Okay, so my book was also from our spring break trip, I read this on the way home. I listened to the
[9:23] audio book all in one day on the airplane rides, because we had kind of a long travel day. What I read
[9:24] was The Astral Library by Kate Quinn. So I was super excited about this book, because Kate Quinn is
[9:25] known for her historical fiction, and I think this is her first magical realism book, so I knew it was going
[9:26] to be kind of different from her previous works, and I was really excited to try it. So the premise of the
[9:27] book is that people, human, human, people, you and me could live in stories if we want to, but it has to
[9:28] be a public domain story. So I think that means older than 95 years old. So I know what I would pick. I
[9:29] thought about it. That was one of the most fun things, was thinking the whole time about what I would
[9:30] pick or what else like. You know when you're thinking in your mind like she should do this, she should
[9:31] do this, you know what? I mean? Yeah, yeah. It was very fun. It had a lot of costumes. It had a lot of,
[9:32] you know, different eras. So a couple of the books they go into, I won't give too many books, but I don't
[9:33] think this is a book you can really spoil. But they go into the Gatsby world they go into. Let me think
[9:34] Sherlock Holmes, there is a Pride and Prejudice. So, yeah, lots of different, lots of variety. And it was
[9:35] very fun. I loved the book. I think that this is specifically a recommendation if you enjoyed the midnight
[9:36] library by Matt Haig. I love that this book has a lot of similarities, but it is just a little more like lighter and
[9:37] more like replace the mental health stuff with like a literary enthusiasm. Happy book girl, yeah, yep,
[9:38] yep. Just like people who want to live in libraries will probably enjoy this book, and it's also very Pacey.
[9:39] It's like running pace the entire time. It's a page turner. And yeah, I enjoyed it. So yeah, I hope if you
[9:40] read it, let me know what your favorite world is and what you would live in if you could live in a Do you
[9:41] know what you would pick?
[9:42] Emma
[9:43] I don't know. I definitely want to read this. This is a good pitch. It also is I just can't, as you all know, I'm
[9:44] a nerd, and it's really making me think about the holodeck when Star Trek Next Generation, because a
[9:45] lot of times data goes in there and kind of does his own Sherlock Holmes time God. And so it's making
[9:46] me think of that a lot. And I'm like, if I could go in the holodeck, where would I go?
[9:47] Elsie
[9:48] It's basically a holodeck.
[9:49] Emma
[9:50] Yeah, I love it. Love it.
[9:51] Elsie
[9:52] Yeah, it's magical. All right, so we're gonna toss it over to a joke or a fact with Nova. Hey, Nova, what do
[9:53] you have for us this week?
[9:54] Nova
[9:55] A joke.
[9:56] Elsie
[9:57] Okay, I'm ready.
[9:58] Nova
[9:59] How do aliens serve their food?
[10:00] Elsie
[10:01] How?
[10:02] Nova
[10:03] On a flying saucer.
[10:04] Elsie
[10:05] Good joke.
[10:06] Nova
[10:07] Have a good week.
[10:08] Emma
[10:09] Okay, so if a book has changed your life, we want to hear about it, so email us
[10:10] podcast@abeautifulmess.com and we just might feature in a future episode. Thank you for listening.
[10:11] See you guys next week.

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