# The Village of Heroes

An episode of [Cautionary Tales with Tim Harford](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1484511465), 3 Jul 2020, 22 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdrl.fm/18db03/tracking.swap.fm/track/SxlTEPDY7xDg35RXkASs/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/c0ae8c6e-22f0-4e9b-ac1c-ae390037ac53/afd07e8a-7ecd-49b9-ae04-ae39003e768c/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=7f5a4714-6b10-4ccf-a424-ae390037ac70

It looked like any ordinary roll of cloth, but it brought the dreaded plague to the village of Eyam. First it killed the tailor, then resident after resident succumbed. To stop the spread of the disease to neighbouring towns the people of Eyam agreed to isolate themselves and let the plague run its deadly course. This terrible act of sacrifice is still remembered centuries later - but what does it tell us about how far people will go to save the lives of strangers? Read more about Tim's work at http://timharford.com/ Tim's latest books 'Fifty Inventions That Shaped The Modern Economy' and 'The Next Fifty Things That Made The Modern Economy' are available now. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:15] Speaker 1: Pushkin. At the beginning of September sixteen sixty five, a
[0:27] Speaker 1: roll of cloth from London arrived in a village named Eam.
[0:32] Speaker 1: Eam was a lively mining and farming community surrounded by
[0:35] Speaker 1: the bleak and beautiful hills of the English Peak District.
[0:39] Speaker 1: It was a world away from London, which, with a
[0:42] Speaker 1: population of about half a million people, was one of
[0:45] Speaker 1: the largest cities on the planet, and it was a
[0:48] Speaker 1: world away from London's Great Plague, an outbreak of the
[0:52] Speaker 1: terrifying disease that was in the process of killing a
[0:55] Speaker 1: hundred thousand Londoners. The roll of cloth was received by
[1:00] Speaker 1: a tailor's assistant, George Rickers. Sniffing the material, George noted
[1:04] Speaker 1: an unpleasant smell and concluded that the cloth had become damp.
[1:09] Speaker 1: He unrolled it and hung it in front of a
[1:11] Speaker 1: fire to dry. As he did that, hungry fleas sprang
[1:16] Speaker 1: off the cloth. They began to look for their next meal,
[1:19] Speaker 1: and George Vickers was close at hand. Within a week,
[1:23] Speaker 1: he was dead of the plague. Plague is caused by
[1:29] Speaker 1: a kind of bacteria carried by black rats and their fleas.
[1:34] Speaker 1: An infected flea finds its insides blocked up by the
[1:37] Speaker 1: bacteria's secretions, which means that infected fleas are endlessly trying
[1:42] Speaker 1: to feed on the blood of rats, gagging on the
[1:45] Speaker 1: meal and vomiting it back into the bite wound. The
[1:48] Speaker 1: vomited blood, of course, is now infested with plague bacteria,
[1:52] Speaker 1: so the rat becomes infected, too, ready to spread the
[1:56] Speaker 1: disease to other fleas. Meanwhile, the flea, ravenous because it
[2:00] Speaker 1: didn't manage to keep down its meal, hops onto another
[2:04] Speaker 1: rat and tries again. Eventually, the rats all dye, which
[2:09] Speaker 1: time the bacteria bloated fleas have turned to biting other things,
[2:14] Speaker 1: such as George Vickers. The outbreak of plague in an
[2:18] Speaker 1: isolated village such as Iam must have filled the villagers
[2:21] Speaker 1: with dread. They would have already heard the apocalyptic news
[2:25] Speaker 1: of the deaths in London, and they would have known
[2:28] Speaker 1: that plague is deadly. It can cause pneumonia, blood poisoning,
[2:33] Speaker 1: and most notoriously, bubos, painful swellings of infected lymph nodes
[2:38] Speaker 1: in the neck, the armpit, or the groin. The bubos
[2:43] Speaker 1: are so distinctive as to give the disease one of
[2:45] Speaker 1: its names, pubonic plague, plague can be treated today, But
[2:52] Speaker 1: in sixteen sixty five there was nothing to do but
[2:55] Speaker 1: wait a few days to see if you died painfully,
[2:58] Speaker 1: which about half the time you would. But what happened
[3:03] Speaker 1: next is a story that they still tell in the
[3:06] Speaker 1: village of em and a story with more than one
[3:08] Speaker 1: less and to teach the rest of us about what
[3:11] Speaker 1: happens in the face of a pandemic. I'm Tim Harford,
[3:16] Speaker 1: and you're listening to cautionary tales on a bleak and
[3:43] Speaker 1: beautiful hillside fifteen minutes walk from the church at the
[3:47] Speaker 1: center of Eyam. In the middle of a field by
[3:49] Speaker 1: the Riley Farm, there's a low stone wall that traces
[3:52] Speaker 1: an area roughly the shape of a tear drop and
[3:55] Speaker 1: roughly the size of a family room. The wall circles
[4:00] Speaker 1: a tiny graveyard, and the name on every gravestone is Hancock.
[4:07] Speaker 1: Over the course of eight days, Elizabeth Hancock lost her
[4:11] Speaker 1: husband and all six of her children to the plague.
[4:15] Speaker 1: Nobody could help her for fear of catching the disease themselves,
[4:18] Speaker 1: so Elizabeth dragged each member of her family up the
[4:22] Speaker 1: hill near the Riley farm and buried them there in
[4:25] Speaker 1: the field by herself. They say that the people of
[4:30] Speaker 1: the next village, Ovah Stony Middleton stood on a hill
[4:33] Speaker 1: near by and watched her, but they dared not come closer.
[4:40] Speaker 1: This year, a lot of journalists have written stories about i'am.
[4:44] Speaker 1: Not many of them grew up in the area, but
[4:46] Speaker 1: I did. About ten miles away. We'd visit Eam on
[4:51] Speaker 1: school trips and hear the tales the folk of E'am told.
[4:55] Speaker 1: They aren't stories you easily forget, not when you're standing
[4:59] Speaker 1: on that lonely hillside looking at the gravestones of the
[5:02] Speaker 1: Hancock children. But it's not only the suffering that sticks
[5:06] Speaker 1: in the memory. It's the sacrifice. Before I tell you
[5:10] Speaker 1: about it, let me tell you a little more about
[5:12] Speaker 1: E'am's surroundings, because they're going to be important. E'am, as
[5:17] Speaker 1: I mentioned, lies in the English Peak District. It's a
[5:20] Speaker 1: beautiful part of the world where low rounded hills are
[5:23] Speaker 1: accented by bleak moors and stark gritstone cliffs which we
[5:27] Speaker 1: locals call edges. The Peak District was the UK's first
[5:32] Speaker 1: ever National park, not because it was the grandest or
[5:35] Speaker 1: the most majestic piece of the British countryside, I think,
[5:38] Speaker 1: but because it's an oasis of wilderness surrounded on all
[5:41] Speaker 1: sides by cities and large towns Manchester, Sheffield, Stoke on Trent,
[5:47] Speaker 1: Derby and my own childhood hometown, Chesterfield. And that windswept
[5:52] Speaker 1: countryside surrounded by dense populations was to be more than
[5:56] Speaker 1: a backdrop for the drama that was to unfold. It
[5:59] Speaker 1: was to shape the fate of e'am because when the
[6:03] Speaker 1: plague arrived in Eyam, one thing became clear. It couldn't
[6:08] Speaker 1: be allowed to leave. Manchester, Sheffield and the other nearby
[6:11] Speaker 1: towns were plague free. They had to stay that way.
[6:16] Speaker 1: The plague was at first a slow moving crisis. George
[6:20] Speaker 1: Vickers had died early in September and the deaths continued
[6:23] Speaker 1: throughout the winter, but the plague only truly erupted in
[6:27] Speaker 1: June the next year. Three people died on the twelfth
[6:32] Speaker 1: of June, five people died on the fifteenth. More were
[6:35] Speaker 1: falling ill. Something had to be done. The man to
[6:39] Speaker 1: do it was the young village priest rector William Mompson,
[6:43] Speaker 1: just twenty eight years old and new to his job.
[6:46] Speaker 1: But he formulated an extraordinary plan. On the twenty fourth
[6:51] Speaker 1: of June sixteen sixty six, William Mompson gathered the villages
[6:55] Speaker 1: together outside in a sheltered little spot that had come
[6:58] Speaker 1: to serve as their socially distanced church. The priests told
[7:02] Speaker 1: them what they must do. They must all stay in
[7:05] Speaker 1: the village until the plague had gone, or until all
[7:09] Speaker 1: of them were dead. It must have been tempting to flee,
[7:13] Speaker 1: but the villagers faced down their fear. They agreed to
[7:17] Speaker 1: quarantine themselves to save the rest of northern England. The
[7:23] Speaker 1: village wouldn't be without help. The folk of nearby Stony
[7:27] Speaker 1: Middleton would come and leave supplies at what became known
[7:30] Speaker 1: as the Boundary Stone, a rock with six holes drilled
[7:33] Speaker 1: into it. Villagers of I'am filled the holes with vinegar
[7:37] Speaker 1: as a disinfectant. Then they left coins in the vinegar
[7:41] Speaker 1: as payment. Villagers of Stony Middleton would collect the money
[7:44] Speaker 1: and leave the food. Nobody needed to get too close.
[7:48] Speaker 1: Nobody outside i'am wanted to. The Duke of Devonshire, a
[7:53] Speaker 1: wealthy landowner who lived at a palace just a few
[7:56] Speaker 1: miles away called Chatsworth House, promised to supplement that with
[7:59] Speaker 1: free food and supplies in gratitude for the self sacrifice
[8:03] Speaker 1: of e'am. But Ultimately, the villagers of i'am would be
[8:07] Speaker 1: on their own, trapped together with the rats and the
[8:11] Speaker 1: fleas and the relentlessly spreading plague. In July and August
[8:16] Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty five villagers would die. Among them
[8:21] Speaker 1: were Elizabeth Hancock's husband and six children, every single remaining
[8:25] Speaker 1: member of a large family called the Thorpes, and Catherine Mompesson,
[8:30] Speaker 1: William's wife. It's hard not to compare ourselves to the
[8:39] Speaker 1: villagers of Iam. There are unmistakable echoes. The placing of
[8:43] Speaker 1: goods at the boundary stone is much like our modern
[8:46] Speaker 1: practice of leaving groceries on the doorstep of elderly relatives
[8:49] Speaker 1: or neighbors, ringing the doorbell and then stepping six feet back.
[8:53] Speaker 1: But the heroic story of Iam sits uncomfortably with our
[8:56] Speaker 1: own response to the pandemic. Look at the TV or
[8:59] Speaker 1: surf the internet, and it won't be long before you
[9:02] Speaker 1: encounter someone who doesn't seem to care. There was the
[9:05] Speaker 1: professional soccer player for Manchester City, yes the same Manchester
[9:09] Speaker 1: that the people of Eam had sacrificed themselves to protect,
[9:13] Speaker 1: if newspaper reports are to be believed, and he apologized
[9:17] Speaker 1: rather than denying them. He decided during the UK's lockdown
[9:21] Speaker 1: that it would be okay to invite a friend to
[9:23] Speaker 1: his home and a couple of prostitutes. A couple of
[9:28] Speaker 1: miles from Eam lies the idyllic Kerbar Edge. The local
[9:32] Speaker 1: police tweeted drone footage shaming people who'd driven there from
[9:36] Speaker 1: a nearby town to walk their dogs. It was a
[9:39] Speaker 1: little over the top, but the police were worried about
[9:41] Speaker 1: minor infractions escalating into widespread breakdown. The police chief's counsel
[9:46] Speaker 1: in the UK warned that the virus could bring out
[9:49] Speaker 1: the worst in humanity. Our self centeredness seemed so pathetic
[9:54] Speaker 1: in the light of what we know about the people
[9:56] Speaker 1: of Eam. They willingly stayed in their plagueracked village when
[10:00] Speaker 1: we are simply asked to shelter in our virus free homes.
[10:04] Speaker 1: What happens? One family decided to make a sightseeing drive
[10:07] Speaker 1: from London to the picture Escu Lake District, a five
[10:10] Speaker 1: hundred mile round trip, all away from one corner of
[10:14] Speaker 1: England to the opposite corner. The police stopped them and
[10:17] Speaker 1: issued a press release calling them clowns. What have we become?
[10:22] Speaker 1: What would the people of Iam think of us? If
[10:25] Speaker 1: they could see us now. My answer might surprise you.
[10:42] Speaker 1: We're telling ourselves two stories here. One is about the
[10:46] Speaker 1: astonishing self sacrifice of the people of Iam who volunteered
[10:50] Speaker 1: to isolate themselves with a deadly plague, who, like Elizabeth Hancock,
[10:54] Speaker 1: found themselves digging graves for their spouses and their children.
[10:58] Speaker 1: The other is about the spoiled, selfishness of modern society,
[11:02] Speaker 1: of those who won't make the slightest change to their
[11:04] Speaker 1: own plans to eat, drink and sunbathe, regardless of the
[11:08] Speaker 1: deadly ris they're imposing on the vulnerable people around them.
[11:12] Speaker 1: Both those stories have a little truth in them, but
[11:15] Speaker 1: both those stories are leading us astray. We often tell
[11:19] Speaker 1: ourselves that in a crisis, the thin veneer of civilization cracks,
[11:24] Speaker 1: they'll be looting and disorder, or, as the UK Police
[11:28] Speaker 1: put it, the worst in humanity. If there's an earthquake
[11:31] Speaker 1: or a hurricane, it's as important to get the army
[11:33] Speaker 1: on the scene to drive off the looters as it
[11:36] Speaker 1: is to get food and medicine. The truth is rather different.
[11:40] Speaker 1: In a crisis, few things are more certain than the
[11:43] Speaker 1: fact that most people respond with decency and solidarity. International
[11:48] Speaker 1: aid experts even have a list of disaster myths. Disasters
[11:52] Speaker 1: bring out the worst in people, with looters and bandits
[11:54] Speaker 1: roaming free a myth. People are helpless and can't take
[11:58] Speaker 1: responsibility for their own safety, a myth. At the outbreak
[12:03] Speaker 1: of the Second World War in Europe, the received wisdom
[12:06] Speaker 1: was that when civilians were bombed, their morale and perhaps
[12:10] Speaker 1: civilization itself, would shatter like the glass in their windows.
[12:14] Speaker 1: Winston Churchill believed this, so did Adolf Hitler, so did
[12:19] Speaker 1: their generals. They were wrong. Every school child in the
[12:23] Speaker 1: UK knows the story of the Blitz spirit of how
[12:27] Speaker 1: as Hitler's luftwaffer dropped bomb after bomb over London in
[12:31] Speaker 1: late nineteen forty, Londoners refused to be cowed. The glass
[12:35] Speaker 1: did indeed chatter, but the British upper lip remained as
[12:39] Speaker 1: stiff as ever. One pub put up a sign, our
[12:43] Speaker 1: windows are gone, but our spirits are excellent. Come in
[12:46] Speaker 1: and try them. Other shops, their frontages torn apart, advertised,
[12:52] Speaker 1: more open than usual. Eighty years later, we still feel
[12:56] Speaker 1: nostalgia for how people pulled together. These stories are true,
[13:04] Speaker 1: but as the writer Rutka Bregman points out in his
[13:06] Speaker 1: new book Humankind, we forget. Yet how surprising the stoic
[13:11] Speaker 1: response was and the lesson was ignored. The Allies made
[13:15] Speaker 1: the same mistake when contemplating their own bombing campaign of
[13:19] Speaker 1: German cities. There was little sign that morale had been
[13:23] Speaker 1: dented in London or other English bomb hit cities such
[13:26] Speaker 1: as Birmingham or Hull. Yet Churchill's friend and adviser, Frederick
[13:31] Speaker 1: Lindermann told him that morale was cracking and that when
[13:34] Speaker 1: German cities were thoroughly bombed, it would break the spirit
[13:38] Speaker 1: of the German people. Predictably, it didn't. Decades later, carpet
[13:44] Speaker 1: bombing didn't break the spirit of the North Vietnamese either.
[13:48] Speaker 1: We're social animals. When times are tough, we look out
[13:52] Speaker 1: for each other. The story of the blitz spirit is inspiring.
[14:00] Speaker 1: What's depressing is that we keep forgetting it. More than
[14:04] Speaker 1: depressing too, Sometimes it can be tragic. When Hurricane Katrina
[14:10] Speaker 1: hit New Orleans in two thousand and five, the response
[14:13] Speaker 1: of the police, the media, and nearby areas was all
[14:17] Speaker 1: shaped by the sad fact. But they just couldn't believe
[14:21] Speaker 1: that the citizens of New Orleans might pull together to
[14:24] Speaker 1: look out for each other. One story vividly told on
[14:27] Speaker 1: the New Floodlines podcast. Involved Fred Johnson, the head of
[14:31] Speaker 1: a community group, Black men of Labor. The morning after
[14:34] Speaker 1: the hurricane, Johnson took a look at the damage, then
[14:37] Speaker 1: went to the Hyatt Hotel where the authorities were coordinating
[14:40] Speaker 1: their response. The Mayor was stationed there, as were the
[14:44] Speaker 1: command centers for the National Guard, the Army Corps, the
[14:47] Speaker 1: Federal Emergency Management Agency, the Fire Department, and the police.
[14:52] Speaker 1: Fred Johnson bumped into the police Chief, Eddie Compass. I
[14:56] Speaker 1: need your help. I need your help, said Police Chief Compass.
[14:59] Speaker 1: He was agitated, he was shaking Fred Johnson, but it
[15:02] Speaker 1: was natural to ask for help in such a crisis,
[15:05] Speaker 1: and Fred was a community leader. He had a whole
[15:07] Speaker 1: group of volunteers he could call on. So what did
[15:10] Speaker 1: the police chief want him to do? Organize evacuations of
[15:14] Speaker 1: flooding areas perhaps, or distribute food and water. No, the
[15:19] Speaker 1: Chief of police wanted Fred Johnson to gather all the
[15:22] Speaker 1: men he could and stand guard in front of the
[15:25] Speaker 1: Hyatt Hotel, looking tough to scare away the gangs of
[15:29] Speaker 1: armed looters that the chief was convinced were on their way.
[15:33] Speaker 1: So Fred Johnson rounded up as many tough looking guys
[15:36] Speaker 1: as he could, and they spent the day guarding the
[15:39] Speaker 1: Hyatt Hotel, a military response to a humanitarian disaster. The
[15:45] Speaker 1: huge mob of armed, rampaging looters never did show up,
[15:50] Speaker 1: nor is it clear that that mob ever existed. It
[15:53] Speaker 1: was just one of the terrifying and usually false rumors
[15:57] Speaker 1: about New Orleans. Why were there so many rumors? Racism
[16:02] Speaker 1: must have played a role. About two thirds of the
[16:05] Speaker 1: city's residents were black. That will only have sharp and
[16:09] Speaker 1: our tendency to think badly of each other. Anyway, because
[16:12] Speaker 1: the rest of the country was too scared to go
[16:15] Speaker 1: and help. The Red Cross, for example, waited a month
[16:19] Speaker 1: before entering the city, a month they thought it was
[16:22] Speaker 1: just too dangerous. The media favored dramatic stories, but those
[16:27] Speaker 1: stories are often about the exceptions. That family who drove
[16:32] Speaker 1: from London to the Lake District and back were admittedly
[16:35] Speaker 1: pretty dumb, but that family stuck out precisely because in
[16:39] Speaker 1: a country of sixty five million people, there were very
[16:43] Speaker 1: few people arrogant and selfish enough to pull the stunt.
[16:47] Speaker 1: At some points, it seemed that the only people breaking
[16:49] Speaker 1: the rules were senior political figures themselves. Most of the
[16:53] Speaker 1: rest of us respected them. The government expected far more
[16:57] Speaker 1: people to chafe against lockdown rules than actually did. They
[17:01] Speaker 1: had forgotten the lesson of the Blitz. Such stories only
[17:06] Speaker 1: perpetuate the disaster myths by making bad behavior seem more
[17:09] Speaker 1: common than it is. They may even have the counterproductive
[17:13] Speaker 1: effect of encouraging more bad behavior. If we are told
[17:17] Speaker 1: that others are acting selfishly, we might feel inclined to
[17:20] Speaker 1: be selfish too. When Yussrian of the novel Catch twenty
[17:25] Speaker 1: two was challenged what if everyone decided to look out
[17:28] Speaker 1: only for themselves? His response captured the idea, I'd certainly
[17:33] Speaker 1: be a damned fool to feel any other way, wouldn't I.
[17:36] Speaker 1: Psychologists led by Professor Robert Chaldeini have studied this insight
[17:40] Speaker 1: in the Petrified Forest National Park in Arizona. When visitors
[17:44] Speaker 1: were told that the forest was being endangered because others
[17:48] Speaker 1: were stealing fossilized wood, they stole two. When tourists were
[17:52] Speaker 1: told truthfully that the vast majority of visitors were leaving
[17:56] Speaker 1: the wood untouched, they did. Likewise, I would not be
[18:01] Speaker 1: at all shocked to learn that scolding reports about unnecessary
[18:05] Speaker 1: journeys only encourage more unnecessary journeys. Most people aren't villains,
[18:11] Speaker 1: and the more exaggerated stories we tell ourselves about wrongdoers,
[18:15] Speaker 1: the more wrongdoing they'll be. None of this means that
[18:21] Speaker 1: we live up to the heroic tale of E'am's self sacrifice.
[18:25] Speaker 1: But then perhaps the villagers of Eam didn't quite live
[18:28] Speaker 1: up to that tale either. Many of the stories we'd
[18:31] Speaker 1: tell about Eam come from a book by a local historian,
[18:35] Speaker 1: William Wood, who was writing in eighteen forty, nearly two
[18:39] Speaker 1: centuries after the plague hit. Iam would admitted himself that
[18:43] Speaker 1: his account was more local legend than solid history. We
[18:47] Speaker 1: know that the village was isolated from the outside world.
[18:50] Speaker 1: We know that more than two hundred and fifty villagers died,
[18:54] Speaker 1: and we know that Catherine Mompesson, the vicar's wife, was
[18:56] Speaker 1: among them. But what we don't know, and indeed what
[19:00] Speaker 1: seems more myth than reality, is that the villagers volunteered
[19:04] Speaker 1: to isolate themselves. Constables from nearby Sheffield were policing the boundaries.
[19:11] Speaker 1: Why were they needed if the idea of the quarantine
[19:13] Speaker 1: came from inside the village, and why do William Mompson's
[19:17] Speaker 1: letters not mention anything about volunteering for quarantine. What seems
[19:23] Speaker 1: more likely is this. There was a terrible public health emergency.
[19:28] Speaker 1: The lives of the citizens of Sheffield and Derby and
[19:31] Speaker 1: Manchester were all at grave risk, and so the authorities
[19:35] Speaker 1: stepped in to require the quarantine, and the villagers courageously
[19:40] Speaker 1: accepted the situation. A few broke the rules and made
[19:44] Speaker 1: their escape. They've tended to be ignored because they don't
[19:47] Speaker 1: fit the heroic narrative. Most decided to tough it out.
[19:52] Speaker 1: That is heroic enough, isn't it. On the first of
[19:57] Speaker 1: November sixteen sixty six, Abraham Morton died. He was the
[20:03] Speaker 1: two hundred and sixtieth villager to die of the plague
[20:07] Speaker 1: and eam and the last. The village had been in
[20:11] Speaker 1: quarantine for four months and living with a plague for
[20:15] Speaker 1: more than a year. The cost had been grievous, but
[20:19] Speaker 1: Iam itself had survived, and before long it was thriving
[20:26] Speaker 1: once again. From our perspective, the villagers of Iam seem
[20:30] Speaker 1: like heroes of a different age. Yet our own age
[20:34] Speaker 1: has its share of everyday sacrifice, and perhaps we're not
[20:37] Speaker 1: as different from them as we fear. They weren't saints,
[20:43] Speaker 1: we aren't contemptible sinners. We're human, and being human should
[20:49] Speaker 1: be good enough. This episode drew on reporting in Patrick
[21:10] Speaker 1: Wallace's feature on Iam in eighteen forty three magazine, James
[21:14] Speaker 1: Meek's description of the Black Death in the London Review
[21:17] Speaker 1: of Books, Rutger Bregman's book Humankind, and The Atlantic Magazine's
[21:22] Speaker 1: Floodlines podcast. For a full list of our sources, please
[21:26] Speaker 1: see the show notes at Tim Harford dot com. This
[21:32] Speaker 1: Cautionary Tale was written and presented by me Tim Harford,
[21:35] Speaker 1: with help from Andrew Wright. The show was produced by
[21:38] Speaker 1: Ryan Dilley with support from Marilyn Rust. The music mixing
[21:43] Speaker 1: and sound design other work of Pascal Wise. The scripts
[21:46] Speaker 1: were edited by Julia Barton. Special thanks to Mia LaBelle,
[21:50] Speaker 1: Carlie Milliori, Heather Fane, Maya Kanig, Jacob Weisberg, and Malcolm Bradwell.
[21:56] Speaker 1: Cautionary Tales is a Pushkin Industry's production

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