# Seizing the means of messenger production

An episode of [The Stack Overflow Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1483510527), 3 Apr 2026, 29 min.

Audio: https://rss.art19.com/episodes/3170a8f5-914e-437e-8a4d-e9a47d145444.mp3?rss_browser=BAhJIhVJbnZpc2libGVOZXR3b3JrBjoGRVQ%3D--0761ee75eb25694efc17849092f8583c07f6c68b

Ryan sits down with Galen Wolfe-Pauly, CEO of Tlon, to chat about calm computing and how humans can take back ownership of their data and digital world. They discuss the early internet’s evolution from individual creativity into today’s internet that turns users into products, Galen’s takeaways from building a new network architecture that prioritizes user control, and why messenger applications are ripe for decentralization. Episode notes: Tlon is releasing a decentralized messenger app that gives you ownership of your data, built on Urbit, a complete, wholly encapsulated system that allows you to run a personal server in the cloud. Use the code STACK to skip the waitlist for the Tlon Messenger app. Connect with Galen on LinkedIn. Shoutout to user mkobuolys for winning a Populist badge for their answer to Set default transition for go_router in Flutter. TRANSCRIPT See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.