# Counter-terrorism: unpacking the concepts of 'sanctuaries' and 'safe havens'

An episode of [The World of Intelligence](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1477524651), 28 Sep 2021, 57 min.

Audio: https://api-na1.hubspot.com/podcasts/v1/audio/file.mp3?portalId=7119805&podcastEpisodeId=202734397845&podcastShowId=202036442208&podcastEpisodeFileId=202780748048&podcastEpisodeCrmObjectId=512078891642&podcastEpisodeFileCrmObjectId=512079368568

In this episode of The World of Intelligence, join me, Terry Pattar, as I engage with Michael Innes to explore the critical concepts of "sanctuaries" and "safe havens" in counter-terrorism. We delve into the historical context of these terms, tracing their evolution from the post-9/11 landscape to contemporary discussions surrounding the Taliban's resurgence in Afghanistan. Michael shares insights from his extensive research, including findings from his recently published book, "Streets Without Joy." We discuss the implications of labeling regions as terrorist sanctuaries, the challenges of intelligence analysis, and the intersection of historical precedent with current geopolitical strategies. Tune in for a nuanced conversation that uncovers the complexities of counter-terrorism language and its impact on policy-making.

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