# IMPERFIX: Dr. Em - Befriending Your Inner Critic

An episode of [The Imperfects](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1476501557), 31 May 2024, 17 min.

Audio: https://enrichment.soundstack.com/4vjqq8/episode.flightcast.com/ou00mfmwjchag8ingxqytq7l.mp3

How kind is your inner voice? What does it say to you when your with friends, having family dinner, at work, when you mistakes, or, when you look in the mirror? We all have an inner critic and for lots of us, that voice can be loud and relentless - holding us back from thriving, from living the life we want to live and being the person we want to be. In this episode of the IMPERFIX, we jump back into an episode with Dr Em and get up close and personal with ‘our inner critics’. In this snippet we explore the role of the inner critic, what’s its purpose? How can we learn to live with, and maybe even befriend it. To listen to this full episode with Dr. Em, follow this link: https://apple.co/3XaFdw9 Links mentioned in the episode: 📺 Things to watch • Shirzad Charmine’s Ted Talk, ‘Know Your Inner Saboteurs’, click here: https://bit.ly/2Ybu5Aa 📖 Things to read • Daniel Siegel https://bit.ly/3TnNVV5 The Imperfects is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you’re struggling, please see a healthcare professional, or call lifeline on 13 11 14. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] My name is Emily and I'm a psychologist and regular guest on The Imperfects.
[0:04] I was proudly born and raised on Wurundjeri Country and now live, work and raise my own children on the lands of the Whadjuk Noongar people.
[0:13] I'm inspired by the strength and endurance of the world's oldest living culture.
[0:17] We at The Imperfects pay homage to traditions of story, and in particular its role in healing when we share and create space for stories on this podcast.
[0:27] Together with The Imperfects, I acknowledge the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation as the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast was recorded, and I'm
[0:35] and extend my respects to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.
[0:40] I acknowledge this land always was, and always will be, Aboriginal land.
[0:44] Hi there!
[0:46] I'm like the imperfect.
[0:48] Oh yeah, sort of.
[0:49] But I'm a quick fix.
[0:50] Yeah, if you're in a hurry or something.
[0:51] I'm a helpful mix of archival tips from episodes past.
[0:55] You can listen to me fast.
[0:56] Da-da-da-da-da!
[0:57] Get ready for this!
[0:58] Yeah, why not?
[0:59] It won't take long.
[1:00] I'm an episode of the Imperfects.
[1:02] Welcome to the Imperfects.
[1:04] This is a shorter form of the podcast where we go back through archival episodes and revisit moments that we think are worth taking another look at.
[1:12] And this week we are revisiting a discussion we had with our resident psychologist, everyone's favourite psychologist, Dr. M. In this conversation, M talks about our inner critic.
[1:23] Now, an inner critic is something that I've battled with for a very long time.
[1:26] I think everyone has one to varying degrees of loudness.
[1:31] I'm certainly no stranger to mine and it's something I've worked on a lot for many, many years really.
[1:36] And what Em touches on this episode is so helpful and would have been so helpful for me to hear many, many years ago.
[1:43] This little excerpt from the episode actually covers quite a lot.
[1:46] Em talks about the origins of our inner critic, how it often can form from childhood experiences.
[1:52] But I think what is really valuable and would have been really helpful for me is the idea of befriending your inner critic, understanding its intentions and...
[2:01] And of course, in doing this, which is quite a difficult thing, always emphasizing a level of self-awareness and self-compassion in managing this negative self-talk, this inner critic.
[2:12] It's a really great chat.
[2:14] As always, we'll leave a link to the full episode in the show notes and we'll hear more from Em after this break.
[2:27] I thought kind of maybe kind of going back from that, then looking at really, well, what is this inner critic?
[2:33] And because we can speak about it like here is this inner critic, but what actually is it?
[2:37] And Hugh, in your example at the beginning, we talked about all those thoughts.
[2:41] I mean, really in some ways we can say that they're automatic negative thoughts that are showing up.
[2:46] But another way that we can think about the inner critic, there's lots of different terms really, but it's like the evaluator, the judge.
[2:53] Yeah.
[2:55] That inner dialogue.
[2:57] Yes, exactly.
[2:58] Yep.
[3:00] And the origins of that are really interesting and important, I think.
[3:04] So Dan Siegel, who I've spoken about before, American professor of psychiatry, he terms the inner critic the checker.
[3:13] And I think that's sometimes a useful way of understanding what that is.
[3:16] Yeah.
[3:17] Yeah.
[3:18] And he says that because it's based upon, well, what he says, it's based upon millions of years of evolution, that we have this part of our brain that is constantly checking for safety.
[3:30] And I know that I've spoken a lot about kind of the evolutionary principles around fight or flight, but really that capacity for this inner narration is this checker part of you.
[3:42] Yeah.
[3:43] So it checks the environment, brings about some alert focus, and then its next function is to motivate behaviour of some kind.
[3:52] That makes a lot of sense.
[3:53] Maybe I'm jumping ahead here, Em, but that checker, because I feel like I've read or I've been told at one point that
[4:04] Often the kind of the reason for anxiety coming about.
[4:09] So if anxiety comes about in you and that kind of fear, a mental fear that you have comes from a place of protection as well.
[4:19] It's like the anxiety is almost there.
[4:21] because it's trying to, it's got good intentions, so to speak, in the sense that it's trying to protect you from the thing that you fear the most.
[4:30] But in bringing up the thing that you fear the most, it puts that idea in your head.
[4:34] So I guess my question, I guess, would be then, at what point does that negative self-talk or that inner critic turn into anxiety?
[4:45] Like, is there a difference or is it essentially the same thing?
[4:48] I think that's a good question.
[4:49] Yes.
[4:51] I'd probably start off by saying that we all have this inner critic.
[4:59] The difference is how we discern when to listen to it and when not to.
[5:07] In terms of how it translates into anxiety, yes, there is this voice that is constantly evaluating your performance and that can be a big driver of anxiety.
[5:19] It's kind of difficult to unpack because there are all of these sensations in the body and the changes in your physiology when we encounter a threat.
[5:26] In some ways, it's like...
[5:28] all part of each other.
[5:29] So it's probably a bit hard to disentangle.
[5:32] But the inner critic is certainly a feature of anxiety and lots of different kind of pathologies.
[5:39] I mean, like even as I asked it and as you were answering, I kind of, I guess I started thinking, well, maybe...
[5:47] maybe it doesn't matter.
[5:49] Maybe that's just a label, like whether it's anxiety or inner critic or negative self-talk, in the moment, does it really matter what the label is?
[5:57] All that matters is understanding what it is in terms of like how to get through it or understanding the origins of it.
[6:03] Maybe that's actually what's more important than saying, is this anxiety or is this this or is this that?
[6:08] Yeah, that's a good point.
[6:10] Great.
[6:10] Wow.
[6:11] Good question.
[6:11] Good point.
[6:12] So where are you, Josh?
[6:13] Yeah.
[6:16] I am nowhere, to be honest.
[6:17] His sickness is... Poor Josh is sick as a dog.
[6:20] Yeah.
[6:22] I mean, all the tests I've been doing say I don't have COVID, but the way that I'm thinking, and I feel like I'm about 50 points down on my unusual IQ and really struggling to follow things, so maybe I do.
[6:35] So just to come back to that example, so it's healthy to listen to them, but then also, Emma, is it a good thing to maybe just to go...
[6:45] Okay, thanks, Checker.
[6:45] I appreciate you checking for me and that's good.
[6:48] You've checked that.
[6:49] You've checked that.
[6:49] I've also done my own checks and balances and I reckon I'm going to be right here or whatever it is.
[6:55] Or, yeah, you're right.
[6:56] You're right.
[6:56] There are some people that might not like this, but thanks for letting me know.
[7:01] Yeah.
[7:01] Almost treating it like a nagging thing.
[7:04] I don't have a nagging mother, but like, you know, mums will go, have you got your coat?
[7:08] Have you done this?
[7:09] I don't think you should do this today.
[7:10] Maybe, have you thought about that?
[7:11] Maybe you're treating it like that?
[7:12] I don't know.
[7:13] Mum, if you're listening, you're not the reference point for this.
[7:16] Yes.
[7:17] And I think that's what you're saying there is really important.
[7:20] And I think if it's okay with you guys, I'd really like to explore that in a little bit more detail in terms of how we work with that inner critic and how we approach that inner voice.
[7:29] I wonder before we get there whether it might be useful to explore how it is that this voice does develop and particularly the kinds of things that it will say.
[7:40] Yes.
[7:42] And so when I would be working with anyone that is experiencing like quite a strong inner critic, one of the first things I'd be kind of having a look at is,
[7:53] is how old this voice feels to you.
[7:55] And I have to say that in asking that question, most people will say it is a really old voice.
[8:04] As in like old?
[8:06] Sorry.
[8:09] I just had an image of a really old man coming in.
[8:12] That's what I thought you meant.
[8:14] I thought it was like an old person.
[8:16] Like, oh, they're probably like in their late 70s, they've just clocked off from lawn bowls, it's Saturday afternoon and they're pouring a sherry.
[8:25] That's my inner critic.
[8:27] Beryl.
[8:31] So, yeah, that is not what I was meaning.
[8:33] Okay.
[8:34] Okay.
[8:35] How old does this voice feel to you?
[8:37] As in, how long have you known this voice?
[8:39] How long has this voice shown up to you in your life?
[8:43] And it would be very rare for me to say that I've heard anyone say, this is a new voice.
[8:48] I've only noticed this in the last year.
[8:51] Most often that voice feels like something that you have heard or known since you were little.
[8:58] Yeah, definitely.
[9:00] Does it often happen because I'm thinking of my own one, I feel like it arrived at about the beginning of my teenage years, like 10 or 11 would have been?
[9:08] So like...
[9:09] Yep, it can be then and it can also be earlier than that too.
[9:13] Yeah, right.
[9:14] But that 10 or 11 might be the first time in which you noticed it or you can remember it.
[9:20] Josh, just wondering if you had your inner critic when you threw a tennis ball into my back.
[9:29] For those of you who knew the podcast, Josh and I have never, ever had a fight or a disagreement before.
[9:33] There was just one time he got angry at me and threw a tennis ball into my back and that was it.
[9:37] Sorry, Em, keep going.
[9:39] It's okay.
[9:41] So it is a long-held, usually, a long-held thought that comes from our early experiences as children.
[9:51] And the degree to which we speak in terms of severity can be an indication of what messages we heard from our parents or primary caregivers as children.
[10:03] And there's this idea that...
[10:08] If you are held harshly, you will hold yourself harshly.
[10:13] So if you heard a lot of criticism, what happens is that we internalise those messages.
[10:21] They then become our rules for understanding the world and for understanding ourselves.
[10:25] And then as adults, those then become the messages we tell ourselves in a really ongoing way.
[10:32] Wow.
[10:34] Makes sense.
[10:35] Yeah, that is fascinating.
[10:37] And if we look really at the function of the inner critic, its role primarily is there to protect us.
[10:45] And it's primarily to protect us from experiences of shame or experiences of rejection and exposure to being unworthy or unlovable.
[10:55] That's huge.
[10:56] This may be completely wrong, but it sounds like a parent then.
[11:01] Yeah.
[11:01] It sounds like what was born from parents is like an inner parent.
[11:05] It's really interesting.
[11:05] Oh, the inner parent.
[11:07] Oh.
[11:09] I feel like this is very unfair on our parents.
[11:12] No, yeah.
[11:12] Yeah, I agree because I don't want them to think that I think that at all.
[11:16] But that's kind of the role of a parent too, to protect their child from shame, embarrassment, failure.
[11:22] It's kind of what you want to do as a parent.
[11:24] So it comes from the same place.
[11:26] It just sort of – yeah, it was just a similarity that I noticed that's probably very unfair.
[11:31] Yeah, yeah.
[11:31] There's something that you said in there that really made me think of a beautiful TED Talk by Shuzad Shamin, and I'll pass this on.
[11:41] And it's such a beautiful TED Talk, but he begins by saying that we are all born believing we are awesome, which is lovely.
[11:49] But at some point along the way...
[11:53] And sometimes very early on, we come to recognise that's not the truth.
[11:57] That's not true anymore.
[11:59] For example, we might be in a critical environment, an environment where there's neglect or even like highly perfectionistic messaging.
[12:10] If as a little kid you come to believe or know that your parents are flawed and imperfect, that would be absolutely terrifying because your life is in their hands.
[12:23] Mm-hmm.
[12:24] And so a child does not want to feel unsafe because they have this knowledge that their parents are flawed.
[12:31] We need to believe that our parents are capable, not flawed and perfect in many ways.
[12:39] And so what happens instead is that the messages that they tell us then become that inner voice that we tell ourselves.
[12:47] So they mustn't love me because I do these things wrong.
[12:51] Or I am unlovable because I've done these things.
[12:54] If only I was to do more of these things, then I would be lovable.
[12:57] And so that voice really started off so little, but it started off because it would have been far too painful for us to recognise the fallibility of our parents or our primary caregivers.
[13:10] Rather say the fallibility in yourself or blame yourself.
[13:14] Yeah, yeah.
[13:15] Yes, exactly.
[13:16] Yeah, wow.
[13:16] Exactly.
[13:17] Gee, that's massive.
[13:19] The thing that has really helped me actually because I've always heard the term inner critic and I kind of had a vague idea of what it was and you can recognise your inner critic but actually in talking about it with you, Em, I've never heard of it.
[13:36] it's actually more helpful to give the inner critic a personality, like an actual persona.
[13:42] And in my case, and this is no criticism to my mum at all, but it is actually helpful to think about my inner critic as my mum, not because she's critical, but because she is looking out for me.
[14:01] And she's always been, you know, trying to make sure that I'm safe or I'm, you know, all these things.
[14:09] And so when she says these things, she's not being critical.
[14:13] So I think if I then apply that to my inner critic now, where it's like if I'm ever thinking, it's very unlikely you're going to get chosen for this.
[14:20] It's very unlikely that your show is going to be picked up or that,
[14:26] people are going to laugh at the jokes that you do on the Imperfects this episode, whatever.
[14:32] All of that is just, it's actually, it's not an inner critic.
[14:36] It's actually probably comes from my mum saying like, you know, she's just worried for me.
[14:42] She's just worried.
[14:43] Yeah.
[14:44] And so knowing the intention and the why behind those comments is actually really helpful for me because I know it's actually not legitimate criticism.
[14:54] It's not a personal attack or a criticism.
[14:56] It's just a person like my mom saying like, just be careful, okay, and just know that...
[15:07] Not everyone laughs at all jokes.
[15:08] You know, some people don't find things funny and that's okay.
[15:12] You know, it's kind of that's the, if that's the voice, it's kind of more helpful and not as, I don't know, not as harsh or something.
[15:22] Oh, my heart is bursting at that whole explanation.
[15:28] That's absolutely spot on in terms of,
[15:31] you know, this way in which we can work with that inner critic.
[15:34] And, you know, this whole process really is around actually uncovering where this voice is coming from and what it looks like and also what function it has been serving.
[15:46] And that point in there is that it has been serving this function to kind of look out for me, but actually I can look out for myself too.
[15:56] And so that process really is around kind of what we'd say is like befriending the inner critic.
[16:02] And if you think about like when you're making a new friend, you meet someone for the first time, we bring such a, well, hopefully, like such a curiosity to getting to know someone.
[16:13] So there's like an openness, an inquisitive part of us that wants to know more about this person.
[16:20] And we can apply those same principles to getting to know and befriend our inner critic.
[16:25] So we can hold that
[16:32] tenseness pressure that comes when we hear that inner critic otherwise.
[16:37] It's quite counterintuitive, isn't it?
[16:38] Yeah.
[16:39] Absolutely, Josh.
[16:40] Yeah.
[16:40] Because the reaction, because to think of them as a friend is just, because if someone was to come up to me and speak like that, I would retract and run away from them physically.
[16:52] So it seems strange to want to welcome that in or at least to, it seems counterintuitive or not, but I can totally see how it helps.
[16:59] Yeah.
[17:01] The Imperfects is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment.
[17:08] The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you're struggling, please see a healthcare professional or call Lifeline on 13 11 14.
[17:16] And as always, if you'd like to hear more from this conversation, you can find a link to the full episode in the show notes.

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