# Monty Dimond - Sick & Tired of Being Sick & Tired

An episode of [The Imperfects](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1476501557), 18 May 2025, 1 h 36 min.

Audio: https://enrichment.soundstack.com/4vjqq8/episode.flightcast.com/x6p6nmizq93idaikc95gymaa.mp3

It’s a Monty type of day - and thank god, because this week we welcome the brilliant Monty Dimond into the studio. In this episode, Monty opens up about the heartbreak of losing her mum—her person, her sense of home and safety. She speaks candidly about the tunnel vision of ambition, living with imposter syndrome, and how a debilitating chronic illness left her bed-bound for 90% of last year. Hugh and Monty share an incredibly vulnerable chat about parenting neurodivergent children; sharing the intense challenges, boundless love and ways they can show compassion to themselves and others. If you're not familiar with Monty yet, she's the founder and co-host of the Show and Tell platform, which includes the newly released podcast iChronic, Monty is a pillar of Australian media (including a co-hosting a national drive show with our very own Sheltzy). Monty, we are in awe of you. To watch this full video of YouTube, follow this link: https://bit.ly/3GVUYmf 🫖 Other Imperfects episodes mentioned in this episode: • Janelle Booker - Living with ADHD - https://bit.ly/42GsmEJ • Hugh’s Open Letter to Parents of Neurodivergent People - https://apple.co/4l4kw0m • Michael (Wippa) Wipfli - Light at the End of the Tunnel - https://bit.ly/3F6wy9d 🎧 Things to listen to: • iChonric - https://bit.ly/4j1d3gb • Show and Tell - https://bit.ly/3ZfWiGR 💻 Things to check out: • Kristy Forbes’ Workshops - https://bit.ly/43eFxNK 🩷To host your own Vulnerabilitea House, purchase the Vulnerabilitea House Cards here - https://bit.ly/3Cx4tGP 🩵To purchase our journal (or your novel) My Imperfect Life, click here - https://bit.ly/3Cx4tGP 🩷To subscribe to the Vulnerabilitea-mail weekly newsletter, join through our website - www.theimperfects.com.au 🩵To join our patreon community, A Little More Imperfects, follow this link - patreon.com/theimperfects 🩷 AND you can subscribe to A Little More Imperfects through Apple Podcasts too, here apple.co/theimperfects The Imperfects is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you’re struggling, please see a healthcare professional, or call lifeline on 13 11 14.

## Transcript

[0:01] I spent 90% of last year in bed.
[0:05] The most hectic migraines that would sometimes last up to six weeks.
[0:11] I have a chronic illness and it's so invisible.
[0:14] People think it's a headache and I'm here and I cannot leave my room.
[0:19] We're all imperfect and on this podcast, I'll be chatting with a variety of interesting people who are willing to make themselves vulnerable by sharing their own struggles and imperfections.
[0:29] I'm Hugh Van Kylenberg from The Resilience Project.
[0:32] And I'm Ryan Shelton from My Mum.
[0:34] And I'm Josh from Hugh's Mum.
[0:37] And this is The Imperfects.
[0:42] Oh, big day.
[0:43] Big, big day.
[0:45] Big, big night, if it's night time for you.
[0:47] Big morning, if you're listening in the morning.
[0:51] It's a Monty type of day, which is what Sam, her husband, probably says every day when he wakes up.
[0:56] Yeah, maybe.
[0:58] I don't know if he'd still be doing it.
[0:59] They've been doing it for a long years.
[1:01] It might get a little bit aggravating.
[1:03] You know what?
[1:03] It's a Monty sort of day today.
[1:07] After 15 years.
[1:08] Shut up, mate.
[1:11] Yeah, we're very, very, very excited to have Monty on the show today.
[1:15] A long time friend of yours and just a wonderful, wonderful person.
[1:19] Absolutely.
[1:21] With a beautiful story to share.
[1:22] Yeah, Monty I've known for maybe 20 years, but you would know Monty Diamond from like all the radio she's done.
[1:28] She's done like breakfast radio, drive radio in Sydney and Melbourne, around the country.
[1:33] But then you've probably also seen her on like The Project.
[1:35] She's on The Project all the time.
[1:36] And have you been paying attention?
[1:38] She's been on that.
[1:39] So, yeah, she's a force.
[1:41] She covers all range of topics.
[1:43] The ones that stood out to me was the way she spoke about the passing of her mum, who she's incredibly close to.
[1:50] She speaks about her ongoing issues with chronic migraines, which is something that a lot of people deal with, and it just completely wipes them out for...
[1:56] I never understood it really until we worked together and there'd be some days where we're about to do a show, like at four o'clock, and she would have to, if she was suffering from a migraine, to even give herself a chance to do the show, she'd have to go into another, like into a dark room and just lie down in darkness for like hours to hopefully let it pass.
[2:15] It's completely debilitating.
[2:16] And she also speaks about something very close to my heart, neurodiversity.
[2:20] When I knew by the time this episode came out, I was going to have read the letter that I wrote.
[2:26] The open letter, yeah.
[2:27] The open letter.
[2:28] So it was the first time I had a chance to chat to someone a little bit more openly and honestly about it.
[2:35] But it put her in a strong position because I hadn't actually done it yet.
[2:38] I hadn't read it out yet.
[2:40] But it was the first time I was able to engage properly as a parent out there parenting a neurodivergent child.
[2:49] And we will get to that just before we do.
[2:52] We all had some fun on the weekend, didn't we?
[2:54] Yeah.
[2:55] Well, yeah, what are you talking about?
[2:57] We all had some fun with AI, didn't we?
[2:58] All of us, everyone in this room.
[3:00] Everyone in the room.
[3:01] Not just the three of us at the table, but Bridge and Bell Bynikin and George all had a bit of a laugh at AI, didn't we?
[3:07] Did we what?
[3:09] That was weird, though.
[3:10] Yeah, that was weird.
[3:11] So let's explain.
[3:13] What did you want to explain here?
[3:14] Oh, no, you can explain.
[3:16] So at the time of recording this, ChatGPT had just sort of like upgraded their image creation technology so you could essentially describe an image and you could get it to like draw something in the style of, you know, like the Flintstones or the Simpsons.
[3:36] With uncanny accuracy.
[3:37] Incredible accuracy.
[3:39] I'm not sure.
[3:40] I'm not sure that's the case, but yeah.
[3:42] So I heard about this and I started playing with it.
[3:45] And I was like, oh, you know, can you draw Ryan, Hugh and Josh from The Imperfects in the style of, you know, this?
[3:50] And I said, no, it can't.
[3:51] No.
[3:52] Well, it could.
[3:52] It could.
[3:53] Yeah, pretty good.
[3:53] Yeah, although it was very strange.
[3:58] And I don't know why I did this, but in every iteration that we did, and we can share these, in every iteration we did, Hugh, your hairline was very, very bad.
[4:13] I don't know.
[4:13] By badge, I mean.
[4:14] Because looking at your hair now, it looks great.
[4:17] Well, in every version we did.
[4:21] Did you go to get a haircut after these?
[4:23] Oh, yeah.
[4:24] As a result of these.
[4:26] It's possible, yeah.
[4:30] What I've found very entertaining was that the further back you placed it in time.
[4:35] And when you say that, it's creating images that look like Renaissance paintings or whatever.
[4:41] Yeah, because we went quite far with this.
[4:43] Like you started with Studio Ghibli style.
[4:45] Yeah, like animation style.
[4:47] Yeah, Simpsons, 90s sitcoms.
[4:49] Then I think I took it to like a 1960s style American panel show.
[4:53] Yes, yeah.
[4:54] But then went back to like 1920s sort of world leaders.
[4:57] I thought I was interested in that.
[4:58] And then went back to like Caravaggio style paintings from like the 1600s, 1700s.
[5:04] Yeah.
[5:04] And then we stopped there.
[5:05] But we could keep going, maybe hieroglyphics.
[5:08] That would be fun.
[5:10] Not for my hair.
[5:11] Love to see how they show a receding hairline in hieroglyphics.
[5:16] Because they will.
[5:17] You know they will.
[5:19] It's, I mean, like my, yeah, I mean, the distinguishing feature.
[5:23] I mean, Josh, you just always looked like a very handsome young man.
[5:27] I think it's very good.
[5:28] It was very accurate.
[5:30] And I just always looked like a guy with, like, really curly black hair.
[5:37] So I guess off the back of that, I looked through all the photos that generated and my first thought was, hang on, am I actually much more bald than I realised?
[5:44] Has this happened in the last...
[5:46] A lot's happened in my life in the last six months.
[5:48] Have I also gone bald and not noticed?
[5:50] No.
[5:50] I decided to continue the conversation with AI.
[5:53] I went quite quiet on the Slack conversation and I just had a long conversation with AI about my hair.
[5:59] Based on those pictures or just general?
[6:01] I just wanted to... Well, this is what I wrote.
[6:03] This is my first question.
[6:04] And you'll see the typo here.
[6:06] AI is getting very... AI now does callbacks to conversations you've had previously, which is really quite...
[6:12] It remembers things.
[6:13] Yeah.
[6:13] And anyway...
[6:15] So you'll spot a bit of that throughout this conversation, but you'll also just listen to this.
[6:20] So I said, hey, mate, because I can't make it.
[6:22] Hey, mate, just wondering.
[6:25] Here's a typo.
[6:25] Hey, mate, what are you doing tonight?
[6:27] I've got like a couple of hours spent.
[6:28] Let me catch up.
[6:30] Hey, mate, just wondering, what do the herbal public think of my hair?
[6:34] That was meant to be general public, obviously.
[6:35] Oh, general public.
[6:36] Do people think I'm bald?
[6:38] Also, does AI think I'm bald?
[6:41] So here's AI's response.
[6:42] Great question.
[6:43] Ha ha, solid question.
[6:45] Okay, do you want this between the eyes?
[6:48] Or would you like the self-esteem, stroking, heartwarming, or should I say skullwarming version?
[6:53] Oh, wow.
[6:55] Your call.
[6:55] I'm good to go either way.
[6:56] And I went, definitely the self-esteem one.
[7:02] Don't go anywhere near my eyes, please.
[7:05] Okay, your eyes are safe for now, mate.
[7:07] Ha ha.
[7:08] Note to Hugh's self-esteem.
[7:10] I feel like I was overreaching here for gags.
[7:12] Ha ha.
[7:13] Note to Hugh's self-esteem.
[7:14] You've got mail.
[7:15] And here it is.
[7:16] Oh, jeez.
[7:17] Okay.
[7:18] From the photos I've seen of you, I'd say you've got thinning hair with a bit of a receding hairline, but definitely not bald.
[7:24] There's still a solid amount on top.
[7:25] It's more mature and distinguished than cue ball.
[7:28] Oh, man.
[7:29] If the herbal public, great typo, by the way, or was that intentional, saw you... Oh, my God.
[7:36] They'd probably go, oh, yeah, that's a bloke in his 40s with relatively happening hair.
[7:41] Classic 44-year-old stuff, really.
[7:43] He may not have too many haircuts left, but no judgment, no scandal.
[7:47] That's just how it is.
[7:49] No scandal.
[7:50] And if I had to make a call, I'd say, not bald, just reliably lived in hair.
[7:59] I've lived in.
[8:00] The next bit.
[8:01] Want me to generate a few hypothetical public reactions or what I would assume your hair says about you.
[8:08] And I said, what, like a vox pop?
[8:10] Yes, please.
[8:11] And feel free to do your between the eyes thing this time.
[8:15] It said, all right, here's how totally fictional, but very realistic cross section of the herbal, I mean general public might react to your hair.
[8:22] Really not letting go of that herbal thing.
[8:25] Jesse, 25, cafe barista.
[8:34] Jesse, 25 Cafe Brista How old is he?
[8:36] 44?
[8:37] Yeah, no offence But I'm not paying attention To a 44 year old Oh wow That has gone right between the eyes And through the head And you're dead Yeah
[8:48] Priya, 27, hairdresser.
[8:50] I wouldn't want him in my chair.
[8:51] His haircut would look bad because he hasn't got much hair and then he'd blame me.
[8:55] Fun.
[8:56] This is very cruel.
[8:58] Glenn, 58, classic oversharer.
[9:01] He'd want to avoid strong gusts of wind.
[9:04] Dave, 44, footy dad.
[9:06] Who?
[9:06] I've never heard of him.
[9:07] I don't care.
[9:09] What?
[9:09] AI summary.
[9:10] What is going on?
[9:11] Now it's not even about the hair.
[9:12] It's just like, I've never heard of this guy.
[9:14] He sounds like a dick.
[9:17] Yes, but can you comment on the hair?
[9:19] No.
[9:21] But you're not even a real person.
[9:22] I don't give a shit.
[9:24] So here's a big callback.
[9:26] Actually, not that big a callback, but it's a callback to about an hour before, which will need context for some people.
[9:31] AI summary.
[9:32] This is AI summary of the whole thing.
[9:34] So, yeah, if the herbal public had a group chat, your hair wouldn't even be the headline.
[9:38] Want to hear what they'd say about your pink dildo, though?
[9:42] Which is a deep cut from an Imperfects episode.
[9:44] Or a deep cut from Hugh's Church of ET.
[9:47] Could be one of them.
[9:51] Would you like me to bring up those links again for you, Hugh?
[9:56] Or have you already made your purchases?
[10:00] No, because I did talk to ChatGPT about the pink dildo that was found on the Nature Street of our house.
[10:08] And that was part of an episode.
[10:09] This is not a – I haven't revealed myself.
[10:12] But I did chat to everybody knows about it because I asked it when we were creating pictures.
[10:16] I thought it would be good if we could – if I get a picture of the three of us holding the pink dildo like it was a trophy.
[10:21] Oh, yeah.
[10:21] And it said, no, I won't do that.
[10:22] Just as a side question, how terrified would you be if your ChatGPT history was released to the public?
[10:31] Oh, I would go away for a while, I think.
[10:37] I'd have myself on a long holiday.
[10:39] It'd be exposing.
[10:41] I don't know if it'd be that bad, but I mean, I wouldn't, I'd have to check, but I think it would be more embarrassing, but I don't think it would be like career ending.
[10:50] I just asked it the weirdest things.
[10:52] You can tell.
[10:53] So Katie...
[11:01] Katie Diamond?
[11:01] Yeah.
[11:02] Yeah.
[11:02] I know it was Monty Diamond, but I didn't know if, I know Monty's nickname, but I thought maybe Diamond was as well.
[11:06] No, yeah, Katie Diamond, Katie Monty Diamond, people probably most know her as Monty.
[11:11] Yeah.
[11:12] I've been friends with Monts for so, so long.
[11:14] You can tell because I call her Monts.
[11:16] You know, only part-time friends call her Monty.
[11:19] I'm down to Monts.
[11:19] And if people start calling her Monts, I'm going to go to Mon.
[11:22] And if people go to Mon, I'm going to Mo.
[11:25] Just so you know, that's how close friends we are.
[11:27] Yeah, well, she certainly speaks very vulnerably and very openly about her struggles and she's had quite a few.
[11:34] But what an incredible person.
[11:35] And that was sort of our first time just hanging out with Monty and she's really wonderful.
[11:42] Yeah, Catherine.
[11:43] I don't think she's a Catherine.
[11:45] Catherine.
[11:47] But yeah, we hope you enjoy this.
[11:48] We will come back from this interview and we will chat.
[11:50] There's something I really want to talk about, which I think is on the horizon very much for you and I, Josh, which I think is something a lot of people are experiencing right now, which will be very evident throughout Catherine Diamond's conversation.
[12:03] So I hope you enjoy Monty.
[12:13] I'm feeling very nostalgic at the moment.
[12:16] I've got Monty's in here and this feels really cool.
[12:22] And now I've gotten nervous a little bit, actually.
[12:25] Oh, have you?
[12:26] But yeah, so, well, Hugh, you'll do a full intro, I'm assuming.
[12:30] You've got that lined up.
[12:30] Yep, good, thanks.
[12:33] But like, so for those who don't know, Monty and I used to do a radio show.
[12:37] It's like to be with you again is really nice, but to be like on microphones together is really cool.
[12:44] Isn't it?
[12:45] When I walked in, I said, I'm so nervous.
[12:47] It's so strange.
[12:48] But we did shows together and never, ever did I get nervous.
[12:52] Never on radio am I nervous.
[12:54] But here, even when I pulled up and saw you out the front, I'm like, there's Sheltsy, me old mate.
[12:58] But I'm like...
[12:59] Feel vulnerable already.
[13:01] Yeah.
[13:01] You are a pillar of the Australian media industry.
[13:04] Oh, wow.
[13:05] I'll take it.
[13:06] Yeah.
[13:07] 17 years of broadcasting, like nationally broadcast radio on KISS and Nova.
[13:13] You're now regular on The Project.
[13:15] Have you been paying attention?
[13:17] Thank God you're here.
[13:19] No, God, no.
[13:20] That's my worst nightmare.
[13:22] As Hugh goes to read his notes, he's like, shit.
[13:25] Don't worry, but this bit will be cut out, so it's fine.
[13:27] People won't know I made that mistake.
[13:28] Keep that in.
[13:29] Keep that in.
[13:29] I mean, ironically, the scripted bit that Hugh forgot was, thank God you're here.
[13:36] Yeah, no, that's not.
[13:37] Because I'm always panicked that people will call me a comedian because I feel like people expect so much from comedians, like make me laugh.
[13:43] And I'm like, no, no, I'm not a comedian.
[13:45] Yeah.
[13:45] No way.
[13:46] No way.
[13:46] Well, you're a wildly amusing person.
[13:48] Oh, thank you.
[13:49] But here's something that is not funny that you've done, but it's good.
[13:55] This makes me nervous for me.
[13:56] Oh, no.
[13:57] No, you fought very hard for better rights for women in the media industry, which I think is something that people know about you and people in the industry as well very much respect and admire.
[14:09] Wow.
[14:09] I don't think I actively did that, but I feel really happy I got to be a part of all female radio shows.
[14:19] Yeah, which is weirdly rare.
[14:21] Oh, it's so rare.
[14:22] There's so many male duos, but there's never, and there's always two guys and a girl, which Sheltsie was our set up with Whippa.
[14:31] Yeah.
[14:31] So we, so just for about five minutes, we had a drive show together.
[14:36] Well, two years, two years.
[14:38] And we did Saturday mornings together.
[14:39] That's true.
[14:40] So Monty and I started doing, we did Saturday mornings for a year on Nova.
[14:45] And then we moved to drive with Whippa.
[14:48] Yes.
[14:49] Whippa came over from Perth.
[14:51] And the three of us did Drive for two years.
[14:53] What was your show called, the two of you?
[14:55] Ryan.
[14:55] Oh.
[14:56] Just Ryan and Monty.
[14:57] Yeah.
[14:58] And then Ryan, Monty and Whippa.
[14:59] Very creative.
[15:00] Yeah.
[15:00] That's what all radio shows are.
[15:02] Totally.
[15:02] So we used our names.
[15:07] in an order that sounded interesting and then that was the title of the show.
[15:11] Yeah.
[15:11] So are you following?
[15:12] Yeah.
[15:13] Then I went to, what was it?
[15:17] Sheltie?
[15:18] Merrick, Doolz and Monty.
[15:19] Merrick, Doolz and Monty.
[15:20] Yeah.
[15:20] Wow.
[15:21] And that, see again, just two guys and a girl, which was a very interesting experience.
[15:26] And then I went to all female shows, which was just glorious.
[15:31] It was so refreshing and such a different environment.
[15:35] There was a TV show that I worked on years ago and one of the sketches that a couple of the writers came up with, Jason and Ray, they came up with a fake FM breakfast radio show and the show was called Dick Obama and the Girl.
[15:51] And it just felt very apt.
[15:53] Yeah, totally.
[15:54] That's essentially what it is.
[15:57] Yeah.
[15:58] But yeah, but Mons, it's so good to see you.
[16:00] Oh, you too.
[16:01] I just, for some reason, get emotional whenever I see you.
[16:04] Yeah, I'm just feeling the same.
[16:05] Yeah, it's like, because it's such an intimate...
[16:10] team, which you guys have here, you know, when you work in such a small team, you become so close and you see the best and the worst of each other.
[16:18] And yeah, there's so much history there.
[16:21] Like we've been friends for over 20 years.
[16:23] I know.
[16:24] But I think I also feel a little bit emotional, I think, because since then, like so much has happened.
[16:32] Oh, yeah.
[16:33] And and like you've gone through so many tough things and it's.
[16:38] And it feels like another life when we were doing radio.
[16:42] Doesn't it?
[16:43] Yeah.
[16:43] Like considering everything that you've, like all the great things you've done, but also all the really tough things you've gone through.
[16:50] Yeah, it feels, I don't know, it feels like a moment of like, God, it's a long time has passed.
[16:56] Well, a huge amount of time it's passed.
[16:57] It was like 15 years ago.
[16:59] Yeah, it was.
[16:59] I thought about it the other day.
[17:00] I'm like, that was 15 years ago.
[17:01] So that was before kids.
[17:03] Like my mum was still here.
[17:05] Like so much has changed in that time.
[17:08] I don't think we realised how, like the freedom we had, which you still pretty much have.
[17:14] Yeah, not much has changed.
[17:18] Nothing.
[17:20] No, nothing.
[17:22] You've moved house.
[17:24] I've moved house.
[17:25] I've bought some new T-shirts.
[17:27] You have.
[17:27] We've all had shit happen to us.
[17:29] Yeah, we have.
[17:30] Yeah.
[17:31] But no, it's... Yeah, I mean, that is, I think, the reason why I'm a little bit like...
[17:36] I mean, I don't know what it is.
[17:37] You know, hearts are flutter.
[17:40] Yeah, totally.
[17:41] There's a real connection between us that I think can never be broken.
[17:45] Well, we'll see.
[17:46] Yeah.
[17:47] We'll see in an hour.
[17:48] Yeah, totally.
[17:50] Yeah.
[17:51] This might sound like a reasonably bold place to start, question-wise, but my...
[17:56] It's so front of mind for me.
[17:58] One of my best mates' dads passed away on Friday morning.
[18:04] And it was really sudden, like really sudden.
[18:07] And so I've just been thinking about that for the last few days nonstop.
[18:13] And having been through that yourself with your mum, that must be just what a thing to go through.
[18:18] It was mum got diagnosed with cancer seven years before she passed.
[18:26] So I realised that I started grieving and mourning my mum when we got the diagnosis.
[18:32] It was...
[18:34] My mum and I were so close, it was almost unhealthy.
[18:38] Like I went to, I'm not into really spiritual stuff, but I remember over the years I went to like some psychic and something, you know, some healer and they were like picked up the, my connection with mum was as if we were Siamese twins.
[18:50] Wow.
[18:51] They said Siamese twins.
[18:52] Two people, separate people did, yeah.
[18:55] Two separate sides?
[18:56] Two separate, yes.
[18:57] And I was like, that is it.
[18:58] Like we were so codependent and she was my person.
[19:02] And so it was like my mum and then Sam and my boys.
[19:06] And Sam knew that.
[19:08] He knew he was second to my mum.
[19:09] Sam's your partner.
[19:10] My partner, Sam.
[19:11] Yeah.
[19:11] And so when mum died, he's like, oh, I've Stephen Bradbury this.
[19:13] Because I turned to him and said, you're my favourite person now.
[19:17] Yeah, so then, you know, we thought she was going to get through it.
[19:23] She had bowel cancer and then it just kept coming back and back and we got to keep her at home and look after her at home, but it was awful.
[19:36] I feel like...
[19:38] yeah a big piece of me died yeah sorry um and we moved like we always lived in melbourne and we've moved to byron bay because melbourne's not home to me anymore and it's taken four years for byron to start to feel like home and i was like why am i so unsettled why is nowhere home and i'm like nowhere's home now because mum's not here like she was always my home
[20:03] She was an amazing woman.
[20:06] Yeah.
[20:06] I love Lex.
[20:06] Yeah.
[20:07] Yeah.
[20:07] She was just the best.
[20:09] And it's weird.
[20:10] Like I've had another baby since she's passed and I'm like, how is she not seeing Otis?
[20:14] Yeah.
[20:15] I mean, it's so lucky to have a connection with your mum like that, but you and your mum were, it was, I don't know, it just felt different.
[20:23] Yeah, it just was, it's just an awful thing to go through.
[20:28] And now, you know, I see, you know, my dad getting older and friends' parents getting older, Hugh, like your friend's dad passed, but so suddenly.
[20:38] But we just feel like they're going to be here forever.
[20:41] You know, and they're just not.
[20:43] I know that sounds so strange because we do know it, but you can't grasp it until you lose one where you're like, shit, this is like a really limited time and we don't have them for long.
[20:52] And sometimes you look at the phone and go, I can't be bothered answering this.
[20:55] I was with a girlfriend the other day and her dad was calling.
[20:57] She's like, oh, and I said, one day that's not going to, that number's not going to show up.
[21:01] Just pick it up.
[21:03] So did you talk to her about death?
[21:08] Yeah, I did.
[21:09] And I vividly remember sitting on the couch with her and her saying, I'm not scared of dying.
[21:14] I just don't want to miss out on anything.
[21:20] And I remember saying to her, I can't do this without you.
[21:25] And she was like, you can, you can, you're strong enough to do this.
[21:31] And, um...
[21:32] And then I even spoke to her and I said, what flowers do you think you want at the funeral?
[21:37] And things like that, you know, and she's like, you can decide.
[21:42] I'll leave it to you.
[21:43] But my sister and I laid on the bed with her before she kind of became kind of unconscious, you know.
[21:50] And I recorded it on my phone and we just chatted to her for like two hours.
[21:54] Really?
[21:54] Yeah.
[21:56] and ask her everything, you know, like, where was your first job?
[22:01] Like, who have you loved in your life?
[22:03] Stuff like that.
[22:04] I'll never listen to the recording, but it's there, you know.
[22:07] You don't think you'll ever listen to it?
[22:08] No.
[22:08] I get shocked sometimes when, you know, videos and stuff pop up on your phone or photos.
[22:14] It always takes my breath away.
[22:16] And hearing her voice is really hard.
[22:18] Yeah.
[22:19] It's getting easier.
[22:21] Um, it definitely is getting easier.
[22:22] It doesn't sting as much, but sometimes it still takes my breath away.
[22:25] I'm like, she's not here.
[22:27] Like what?
[22:28] It's weird.
[22:29] It feels like a lifetime ago, but also yesterday.
[22:32] Do you reckon when you were a kid, you also felt that like, so not the, I mean, dependence is maybe not the right word, but that sort of feeling of like, I can't do it without you.
[22:42] Yeah.
[22:43] With your, it was that always been totally.
[22:44] Cause my parents separated when I was about five.
[22:47] Hmm.
[22:48] And dad's always done the best he can, but my mum was our main parent and she was my safety.
[22:55] Like she made me always feel really safe.
[22:57] And that's what we need as a kid is to feel safe.
[23:00] Yeah.
[23:00] And then I imagine like going, cause you've had, when she passed away, you'd had two kids.
[23:06] Yeah.
[23:06] So you're sort of just entering, and I'm the last person in this room, I should talk about being a parent, but sort of just entering that life of being a mum yourself.
[23:15] Yeah, that was still young, but they had, like my eldest had the most incredible bond with her.
[23:21] And that was the hardest telling him, because he got it.
[23:25] He was only six, but I remember, you know, there's things that you just vividly remember, and I remember telling him and his reaction, but he would stay there a couple of times a week.
[23:34] Like I used to call them bum chums, which I don't think that's...
[23:38] correct at all, but we did, we used to go, they're bum chums, because they were just inseparable.
[23:44] So it was a real adjustment for the whole family.
[23:47] And then I feel like I had to step up and go, okay, I've got to, I do have to do this on my own now.
[23:53] I've got family and everyone, but not like my mom.
[23:56] And it's kind of like I became an adult then.
[23:59] Like I was, yeah, just shifted everything.
[24:02] I've heard a few people say now that, and maybe this is not what you meant, but I've heard a few people say now that they didn't feel like an adult until their parents had passed away.
[24:10] Yeah.
[24:10] I don't know if that's a common feeling, but...
[24:13] Well, because they're at the head of the bus.
[24:15] And then once they're gone, you're like, shit, I'm at the front of the bus now.
[24:18] Yeah.
[24:18] So do you have a memory of the moment you first found out that your mum had cancer?
[24:25] Yeah, I vividly remember.
[24:26] It was Boxing Day.
[24:31] But I remember on Christmas Day thinking, something's off here.
[24:36] And I didn't know what.
[24:38] Were you with her on Christmas Day?
[24:39] With her on Christmas Day.
[24:40] But she was incredible.
[24:42] Like just normal mum.
[24:44] But I think that bond, I'm like, something's not right here.
[24:48] And I called her that night and I said, mum, what's going on?
[24:51] Are you or David, my stepdad?
[24:54] Is something going on there?
[24:55] And she's like, no, no, everything's great.
[25:00] And I was like, okay.
[25:02] You could sense.
[25:03] I could sense it.
[25:04] I knew something wasn't right.
[25:05] I don't know what it was.
[25:06] It was just a gut feeling.
[25:07] And then the next day we were sitting out in mum's backyard and my son Bax was about, he would have been nearly one or he would have been one.
[25:17] And mum said, and my sister and my stepsister were sitting there and she said, I have cancer that is in my bowel, my liver and my lung.
[25:29] Oh.
[25:36] And I remember just getting up and running to the bathroom and literally nearly being sick and passing out.
[25:47] I remember thinking, I'm going to pass out.
[25:51] And my nan was alive then too.
[25:54] And she came in and was just rubbing my back and crying.
[25:59] And then I just went back out to mum and hugged her.
[26:06] And then I just got on line and I'm like, I'm going to get to work now to find the best oncologist that I can find and to look at what I can do for her.
[26:18] And I think that's when the ADHD kicked in and the hyper focus of we're going to make this all right.
[26:24] But that was a life-changing moment.
[26:26] It was, you know how you can, there's not many times in life where you're like, whoa, this is life-changing.
[26:31] That was life-changing.
[26:33] Those few words changed everything.
[26:35] Yeah.
[26:38] I've actually, it's strange, it's been popping up in my head a lot recently, maybe after the loss of a bit from a mutual friend of ours, a father, the other day.
[26:47] And I've been thinking a lot about how am I going to tell my kids one day, especially as they're getting closer and closer to their grandparents and it's this beautiful relationship developing.
[27:01] How am I going to tell them one day?
[27:02] That must have been the hardest moment, telling your son.
[27:05] Yeah, it's one of those things that haunts me a little bit, telling him, because I'll never forget his face and his reaction.
[27:13] And he was only six when mum died, but their bond was unbreakable.
[27:19] It was incredible.
[27:20] And she was bringing the boys up with us.
[27:22] It was very much her, Sam, and I bringing up the boys.
[27:27] But I remember we were in the car, because I remember going, I've got to tell him.
[27:30] And this is before mum had passed, so mum was
[27:34] out of it.
[27:34] She wasn't, it wasn't mum anymore, but she was still alive.
[27:38] And so I remember we were in the car driving and I said to him, Hey mate.
[27:44] And he had no idea she was sick either.
[27:46] I just said, Hey mate, Nana, um, he's very unwell and she's going to die.
[27:53] I didn't really beat around the bush with it.
[27:55] Cause what do you say?
[27:56] Like, um, and I was holding his,
[28:04] His little hand, I'm sorry.
[28:05] And he just looked at me and he said, no, mum, not Nana.
[28:17] Not Nana.
[28:18] And it was like the only person in the world he didn't want to die was Nana.
[28:23] And I just remember going, I've broken my boy's heart.
[28:28] Like I literally broke his heart telling him that.
[28:32] And then a few days later, mum passed.
[28:34] A few days later.
[28:37] Yeah.
[28:38] And I think because I'd told him already the shock had gone from it.
[28:44] But I was like, Nana has passed.
[28:46] And there were more tears, but it wasn't that full-on reaction.
[28:51] And I was really surprised a six-year-old reacted like that.
[28:54] He cried for a good hour.
[28:56] And I remember thinking, wow, this is really...
[28:59] Full on.
[29:00] And he's never spoken about my mum since.
[29:04] Like I'll go, do you remember that?
[29:05] Or remember Nana used to do that?
[29:08] And you'll say yes.
[29:09] But it's like he has had to block it out.
[29:13] Yeah.
[29:13] It's too painful for him.
[29:18] Sorry.
[29:19] No.
[29:20] Don't be.
[29:21] That is literally the hardest bit of the whole thing was telling him.
[29:24] Yeah.
[29:25] Of course.
[29:28] When you said before about it not feeling like Byron didn't feel like home for a while, it does now, and Melbourne doesn't feel like home anymore.
[29:37] Is there, is that, I haven't lost anyone like you have, but I imagine that I kind of, there would be a tinge of sadness when something started to feel happy again, or like home again without them.
[29:51] Yeah.
[29:51] Is there a resistance to want it to feel like home, or like a sadness that comes with it?
[29:56] Yeah, it totally makes sense.
[29:58] And I remember after I had Otis and mum had passed and we'd just moved to Byron Bay and that first six months of having him, I was the happiest I'd ever been.
[30:09] And it was so strange.
[30:11] And I said out loud to mum, mum...
[30:15] I'm not surviving.
[30:15] I'm thriving.
[30:17] And I literally said it out loud, which I know sounds really cheesy, but I felt so happy and I couldn't believe I was that happy without her there.
[30:25] And, yeah, there was a bit of guilt as well because I'm like, you're missing out on this and you've probably never seen me this happy.
[30:31] Like I was, yeah.
[30:32] And then that quickly passed.
[30:35] After six months, life kicked in with three boys and, you know, different stuff going on.
[30:40] But it was, yeah, it is a funny feeling when you do, yeah, they're past and you do feel happy or settled where they don't.
[30:47] Like, I'm like, you've never seen my house that I live in.
[30:50] All this stuff going on.
[30:51] Yeah.
[30:51] Yeah.
[30:52] That would be so difficult and will be one day for all of us for...
[30:56] Yeah, which is true.
[30:57] I said to my friend the other day, I'm like, you're just a sitting duck.
[31:00] Like I've been through it now.
[31:01] You're a sitting duck.
[31:03] I'm like, yeah, you're right.
[31:05] The thing that I think about when I think about you, Mons, is –
[31:12] Like you are, you're such an ambitious person, like career wise.
[31:17] And since I've known you've always been like very like driven to like achieve and do things.
[31:23] And you're one of those people who actually does them.
[31:25] You're actually like, you know, if you want to do something, you like go get it.
[31:29] And then when your mum passed away and then you became a mum and that became a bigger part of your life, I guess I just wondered how your ambitions changed, if at all.
[31:43] I was so obsessed with getting into radio.
[31:46] And that's where I know, like I am diagnosed ADHD.
[31:49] I look back on that and go, oh, I was so hyper-focused, so tunnel vision that there was no option but for me to get into radio.
[31:57] And I moved to the country and did it.
[32:01] And then we got our show.
[32:03] And I just was like, this is all I want to do.
[32:06] And I did everything I could to get on there.
[32:08] I vividly remember asking, you remember The Cage, that radio show?
[32:15] I used to sometimes do the phones for them.
[32:17] And I remember asking Bridget, Giclo and JB if they'd do a demo with me.
[32:21] Oh, it's so embarrassing now thinking about it.
[32:24] Yeah.
[32:24] And jumped in the studio with them.
[32:26] Oh, you did?
[32:26] They said yes.
[32:27] Yeah, they said yes.
[32:28] I was so generous.
[32:29] That's so nice.
[32:30] And then I handed my demo to Mick Malloy to get feedback off Mick.
[32:34] I was working behind scenes on his show.
[32:36] Like I look and go, oh my God, I would never do that now.
[32:39] But that's sort of like the naivety.
[32:42] Like that's such a benefit, the naivety.
[32:44] Such a benefit.
[32:45] Because if I'd known how hard it would be, I would have given up.
[32:47] And I also sent it to Kate Langbrook, my demo, because I just loved Kate, who passed it on to our old boss, Todd Campbell, who was...
[32:54] Which I know is what helped get me my foot in the door.
[32:58] So it was incredible when I had full circle of working with Kate.
[33:01] Yeah.
[33:02] When I'm like, I sent you my demo.
[33:03] Yes.
[33:03] It helped me get the job to then work with her.
[33:05] You did 3pm pick up with Kate.
[33:06] Yeah, for a couple of years.
[33:08] Yeah.
[33:09] So how old were you when you were sort of working –
[33:12] Probably 20.
[33:13] Okay.
[33:13] Like pretty young.
[33:14] Yeah.
[33:15] And was radio always like from the, like how young were you, do you reckon?
[33:19] I remember when I was about 11 saying to somebody, I want to be a disc jockey when I'm older.
[33:26] Wow.
[33:26] That's really aging.
[33:27] I know.
[33:28] And they laughed at me.
[33:30] Because you said disc jockey or because... Yeah, probably that.
[33:33] But just it was such a ludicrous dream, you know, and I remember going, oh, that's not possible then.
[33:37] But I remember when that kid laughed going, oh, that's not, that's a silly dream then, and then I just guess I parked it.
[33:44] But then I got a job doing the Black Thunder Pilots.
[33:46] Okay.
[33:47] Which was...
[33:47] the best job, like the promotional vehicles that drive around for radio stations, hand out Cokes, do barbecue, stuff like that.
[33:55] And that was incredible.
[33:56] And so I saw how radio shows worked and I started to do phones for, I did phones for Tony Martin's show, Get This and Mick Molloy's Tough Love and The Cage.
[34:06] And I just saw how magical a radio show and team was.
[34:11] And I'm like, I want to do that.
[34:12] Yeah.
[34:13] So what kind of thing do you do for a demo?
[34:15] Like if you had like JB and Bridget Guclough, like what do you say to them?
[34:20] Do you say, I'm just going to talk and can you just pretend that we're on a radio show together?
[34:24] Yeah, it was pretending we were doing a live show together.
[34:27] So I'd just have content.
[34:28] I remember I spoke about the strippers to them.
[34:30] I vividly remember Princes of the Night is a stripping show in Melbourne and I remember talking about going to that with my girlfriends.
[34:37] Kind of like a manpower.
[34:38] Yeah, totally.
[34:39] Yeah.
[34:40] Like that'd be a really hard thing to do.
[34:42] I was so nervous.
[34:43] It was because they were big.
[34:45] That was a big show.
[34:46] It was huge.
[34:48] But it kind of helped, you know, and then Tony Martin was extremely generous.
[34:52] He had me on as a guest.
[34:53] That was my first kind of touch international radio with Ed Kavalee.
[34:59] And they had me on and I just couldn't believe they had me on.
[35:01] It was wild.
[35:02] To do a little bit.
[35:03] To do an hour with them.
[35:04] Like they had guests every day.
[35:06] And they invited me on to be a guest as Katie from the phones.
[35:10] That's who I was then.
[35:12] And I was just like, this is awesome.
[35:14] But it's funny, when I look back at what I've done, the whole time since I started, I was like, I'm gonna get found out.
[35:23] Like, this is too good to be true.
[35:25] I had such hectic imposter syndrome.
[35:28] that for a lot of it I probably didn't enjoy it that much because I was like, this is going to end.
[35:32] I love this so much and, you know, all I'm doing, I'm not that interesting.
[35:36] I'm not as good as, you know, a Langbrook or someone like that.
[35:40] I don't stand out.
[35:43] And, yeah, I just look back and go, wow, like I did do Sydney Breakfast Radio, but it doesn't feel like that to me.
[35:50] Like it's almost like it was someone else because the whole time I'm like –
[35:54] oh, my God, this is going to end.
[35:56] It's all going to end.
[35:57] Yeah, because it could.
[35:59] It could and it did.
[36:00] You know, it has.
[36:04] But that is the kind of like cruel thing about any sort of freelance job, particularly in like a TV or radio where on one hand you can get treated really well.
[36:15] Yes.
[36:15] For a little bit.
[36:16] But then there's also this sort of unspoken thing of like,
[36:20] Oh, it's so good having you here, but because it feels like there's a bit of bullshit going around, maybe a bit more than a bit, you know, just because you've seen people lose their jobs and people just get slashed and stuff, you know that if someone better comes in or your ratings drop for a second... Oh, you're gone.
[36:38] You could be gone.
[36:39] Yeah.
[36:39] It's my partner, Sam's in radio as well.
[36:42] And that's how we met.
[36:43] But every job I've lost in radio, I found out through him.
[36:46] And he was at the opposition network always.
[36:48] Really?
[36:49] Yeah.
[36:50] And it was, he would be like, I've heard this because everyone knows they shuffle before they tell you.
[36:56] So everyone knows what's going on before you, you know, so it's just.
[37:00] That's brutal.
[37:01] And then you're the last to know.
[37:02] Yeah, you're always the last to know.
[37:04] And I just, when I did, Chelsea, our drive show finished, and they said, can you do Sydney breakfast?
[37:13] And my gut was like, no, because I didn't want to move away from my mum.
[37:17] And breakfast hours are just hideous.
[37:21] And I just was in my dream team with Ryan and Whipper.
[37:25] So I was really, no.
[37:27] Anyway, then of course.
[37:28] of course i was like okay well i do have to take this they threw an offer at me that was so enticing that i'm like okay i'll do it i'll give it a crack and in that job i lasted six months before and at the start like you were saying shelter you know you you think you're the you they the way they treat you they're like oh my god we're so happy to have you here and i had the head boss come and say oh my god this is amazing i haven't seen the boys like this they're so happy and then six months
[37:58] Okay.
[37:59] Hang on.
[37:59] So let's talk about it.
[38:00] Let's talk about it.
[38:01] Yeah.
[38:02] Because this is the thing.
[38:04] I don't know if I've ever properly spoken to you in detail about this happening because it feels shocking.
[38:12] And it's kind of like the thing that you hear happening to women all the time.
[38:16] But it seemed so clear that this is the reason why.
[38:20] And it was like the show wasn't, we didn't mesh well as a show, like American Duels as performers are incredible, but the three of us weren't a great combo.
[38:30] Which often happens in radio because people just get put together with no...
[38:33] Totally.
[38:33] They don't know each other.
[38:34] Yeah.
[38:35] But it was, you don't normally get let go six months into a contract, especially of a two year contract.
[38:42] And yeah, so it was six months in and I fell pregnant.
[38:47] And I got really sick in the first, you know, the first few weeks.
[38:51] And I said, you know, so I had to take a bit of time off.
[38:54] And it was too early to tell them because it was.
[38:57] Sorry, sorry.
[38:58] This is your first, is that?
[38:59] My first baby.
[39:00] Okay.
[39:01] Yeah.
[39:02] Um, so I was like 29, 30 and it was too early to tell them because it was about four weeks in.
[39:08] I hadn't told any of my family, but I was so sick.
[39:11] So I had to take a few days off work here and there.
[39:14] And then it got to the point where they're like, you know, you've got to come back.
[39:19] Like what's going on?
[39:20] So I had to tell them that I was pregnant.
[39:23] So I told my bosses before I told my family and the first thing that,
[39:29] my boss at the time said was, because I'd had time off, make sure you are ready to come back because I know someone who's miscarried.
[39:39] So it started, yeah, there was no congratulations.
[39:43] In his mind, he had wanted me gone when he found out I was pregnant.
[39:47] So I was like, wow, this is wild.
[39:50] And I got pulled into an office with three of my bosses, three male bosses, a bit similar to this situation now.
[40:01] Yeah, and just... You're not going to lose your job here.
[40:03] Yeah.
[40:04] Okay, thanks.
[40:05] Basically not congratulated by any of them.
[40:07] It was also said to me, we don't want you to run any of your own stuff.
[40:12] Just support the boys.
[40:13] The audience is not used to you being on anymore.
[40:16] So when you say run your own stuff, tell your own stories.
[40:18] Tell my own stories.
[40:19] I was then back on air but wasn't to run it yet.
[40:22] Tell any of my own stories.
[40:24] I was there to support American Duels as the token girl because I'd had a couple of weeks off.
[40:30] To giggle in the background.
[40:30] To giggle in the background.
[40:32] And I'm like, they want me gone.
[40:33] It's so obvious, but they're going to have to push me out.
[40:36] I'm not walking away from this contract.
[40:38] And then it got to mid-year and my manager called and said, they want you out of the show.
[40:42] And my first reaction was, this is the best news I've heard.
[40:46] And why is that?
[40:47] Because it was just...
[40:49] I was surrounded by men that didn't want me there.
[40:52] Yeah.
[40:52] But when they want you out of the show, but that didn't mean they could take away your contract though.
[40:56] So I got a year and a half gardening leave, they call it.
[40:59] Paid for a year and a half.
[41:00] But I was also really...
[41:01] So gardening leave is where you continue to get paid, but you can't go and do any other jobs.
[41:05] Yeah, I couldn't go to any other networks.
[41:07] I couldn't do any of that.
[41:08] But, you know, I was having a new baby, so it didn't really matter.
[41:11] But I also felt like I was really new in the industry and I was really scared that, God, this is it.
[41:17] I'm not going to get another gig now.
[41:19] I've got a baby and it's done.
[41:21] And that's when I started my own business, Show & Tell, because I'm like I need to create my own staff, a space for women that I can control and run.
[41:31] Yeah.
[41:31] Do you think you would have started, because Show & Tell's incredible and it was kind of pretty revolutionary, I think, at the time.
[41:37] There wasn't a lot of this stuff like what Show & Tell does.
[41:41] Do you think it was, whether unconscious or not, but a response to what happened to you?
[41:46] I think so.
[41:46] I wouldn't have done it.
[41:47] I wouldn't have had the time.
[41:48] And I just wanted to work with women at that stage.
[41:51] I was just exhausted by being around really toxic masculinity and everything.
[41:56] And I also looked back and realised I couldn't hold my own in those rooms.
[42:00] I didn't have the confidence to go, that's really wrong or, no, that's not okay.
[42:04] You talk to me like that.
[42:06] So I created Show & Tell, which was just where I'd interview well-known women.
[42:11] They'd literally come and sit on my couch and we'd set up a camera on the baby's high chair and film them just really relaxed.
[42:19] And it just created a really nice space for people to go and connect
[42:27] Kind of not dissimilar to this, where people would just open up about their life.
[42:31] And then we moved into a podcast.
[42:33] But I didn't have to rely on anyone saying, yes, you have a job.
[42:37] A dream.
[42:38] And no, you don't have a job.
[42:40] I just needed that freedom and to be surrounded by softer people.
[42:44] So what happens to your self-esteem going through a process like that or being in an environment like that?
[42:51] What did it do to your self-esteem?
[42:53] Yeah.
[42:54] probably knocked it a fair bit.
[42:56] I've always had kind of two sides to myself where I'm like, you're good at this.
[43:02] You can do this.
[43:02] Like you've worked hard.
[43:03] You should be here.
[43:05] This is your role.
[43:06] And then the other side of, oh my God, you're not good enough.
[43:09] Yeah, there was always kind of two things at play there for me.
[43:14] And I think there still is with a lot of things.
[43:17] The first year I wasn't doing radio, I had like a bit of an identity crisis because I was so wrapped up in, like your work is so much of your purpose and your identity.
[43:27] And I was like, who am I if I'm not doing radio?
[43:32] Because I've been recently thinking so much about a similar thing, whereas I've got this sort of voice in my head, which I can't, even though I know that the voice is wrong, I often believe it.
[43:43] And the voice says, no one will want to spend time with you.
[43:49] No one will want to be in your life if you're not doing something impressive.
[43:54] Yeah.
[43:55] And it's like something I'm like trying to like get through because I know that's not true.
[44:01] I know the people who love me love me no matter what I'm doing.
[44:04] But there's this sort of nagging voice that just says like if the imperfect stop or if you don't get a show or if you don't do something impressive publicly, then people will just not be interested in you.
[44:17] Yeah, I totally get that.
[44:20] I've found it really hard to, you know, when you have to write out what your occupation is.
[44:23] I'm like so many places when we fill out a form, ask what your occupation is.
[44:28] Comedian.
[44:29] Oh, no, don't do that.
[44:29] No, don't do that.
[44:31] But I've really struggled to go, well, what am I now?
[44:35] And so often I'll just write mum, even though, you know, I am a podcaster and stuff, but I'm like, I just, I don't know.
[44:42] I found that really hard.
[44:43] And I'm like, shit, I'm nothing now.
[44:45] Like I have felt like that and felt embarrassed because,
[44:50] You know, when I used to tell people, like radio is daggy, it's a daggy medium, but I always felt really proud saying, I'm in radio because people, it's a different job.
[44:59] So people would be a bit excited.
[45:00] Yeah.
[45:01] And you meet celebrities and.
[45:02] Yeah.
[45:02] And that people were impressed by it.
[45:04] And I'm like, no one's really impressed anymore.
[45:06] Like I have those thoughts, you know?
[45:08] Yeah.
[45:09] And I have really struggled with it at times.
[45:11] And I also really – I've always been really independent with my money.
[45:14] I think that was growing up with a single mum.
[45:17] I'm like I'm never going to be in a situation where I have to rely on a man and if –
[45:22] You know, anything happens, I want to be able to stand on my own two feet.
[45:25] In the last two years, I haven't made a cent and that's really thrown me as well.
[45:31] That's been hard to, you know, and I've got, I think a lot of women have this, but I've got a separate bank account.
[45:36] Sam, my partner's bank account, I have full access to, but I've got a secret bank account.
[45:41] Does he know about it?
[45:42] He knows about it, but he doesn't have access to it.
[45:45] Yeah.
[45:45] And there's not much in it, but it still makes me feel like it's there if I need.
[45:50] Like, and it would last me literally three nights if I was to leave.
[45:55] But at the same time, it still gives.
[45:56] It's mine.
[45:57] Yeah.
[45:58] When you were talking about the imposter syndrome before, I'm going back a bit, but it's sort of, it's continuing through a lot of the stuff you've said.
[46:04] Yeah.
[46:04] How much...
[46:05] Well, have you thought much about how much of that imposter syndrome is your own internal kind of like dialogue and brain versus the industry itself that you've chosen to be a part of?
[46:19] Because it sounds like with that, the threat of like the lack of opportunity for women when you were coming up and I'm sure it's still not anywhere close to being even now.
[46:31] And then the confirmation of how you became a problem.
[46:37] I'm using the word problem because I'm sure that's how I felt at the time when you became pregnant.
[46:42] Yeah.
[46:43] The confirmation of, oh yeah, they can just take it away at any point.
[46:46] Yeah.
[46:46] Yeah.
[46:47] Do you think it's more industry or more internal?
[46:52] It could be a mix, but I think it is more internal.
[46:55] Yeah, okay.
[46:56] It was always there.
[46:57] It was always there.
[46:58] And I do have really bad anxiety.
[47:00] I've always had bad anxiety.
[47:03] When I look back at a kid, I'm like, oh God, I was really anxious.
[47:06] And I think that plays into it too, because you just think so much and you overthink and overanalyze.
[47:14] Speaking of mental health, I also remember, Sheltzie, we got Drive Radio together, and it was my ultimate to work with Ewan Whipper, and I got depression for the first time.
[47:23] Oh, wow.
[47:25] And it was so weird, because I'm like, I've got my ultimate job, and on paper, everything's amazing.
[47:30] And it was about halfway through the first year, I started to get really depressed, and I had to go on medication, and I started seeing a psych, and I remember saying to you guys,
[47:41] look, I'm going on antidepressants, I'm feeling really depressed.
[47:45] And you were just amazing.
[47:48] You were just like, you weren't here months if you need.
[47:50] And it kind of was a, we're all here for you.
[47:53] Now let's just get back to work.
[47:55] It was beautiful.
[47:56] So Whippa went through the same thing at the same time.
[47:58] He did.
[47:59] Yeah, he did.
[48:01] Yeah, I just do remember Whippa in a really bad place.
[48:04] It was kind of like we tag teamed.
[48:05] And so we were able to be there for each other when we weren't in a good place.
[48:10] But it was our environment.
[48:11] You know, you could bring whatever you wanted to work.
[48:14] It was, if you're not good, you're not good.
[48:15] If you're having a good day, you're having a good day.
[48:18] And then there was Schelzi, just so, just straighty 180 with his mental health just there, the backbone.
[48:24] I mean, the other big part and the thing that you struggled with a lot while we were doing the show was migraines.
[48:30] Yeah.
[48:31] And I know you still struggle with them a lot now.
[48:33] Yeah, yeah.
[48:35] And at the time, I just thought migraines were bad headaches.
[48:38] Yes.
[48:39] I just thought like, oh, migraine is like, oh, she's got a really bad headache.
[48:42] So, you know, Montu had to like, sometimes we'll be on air in like an hour and you'd have to go and like lie down in one of the dark studios for like half an hour, an hour and you just had to take yourself out of the mix.
[48:56] Yeah.
[48:57] Sometimes you had to miss shows and that was all part of it.
[49:00] But I didn't really understand...
[49:03] the how debilitating migraines could be yeah i spent 90 of last year in bed um which was really hard having three kids it's like because i had we had prevention medication and then i would have something when i felt a migraine coming on and that would work and then it was like one month it all stopped it just also it's like my body just rejected everything and nothing would work
[49:32] And I had the most hectic migraines that would sometimes last up to six weeks.
[49:38] I would be in bed to the point Sam would have to take time off work.
[49:42] And I remember one day he said, I think we need to get a carer.
[49:47] And I'm like, shit, I'm really chronically ill. A carer for you.
[49:50] Yeah.
[49:51] I have a chronic illness and it's so invisible and people think it's a headache and I'm here and I cannot leave my room.
[49:59] And it, yeah, most people don't really understand it.
[50:04] Can you explain it?
[50:05] It's so different for everyone, but mine's just like, I get really dizzy.
[50:10] It's like a vice around my head.
[50:12] I can't, because I'm so dizzy, I can't lay still.
[50:14] So I just have to flip from side to side constantly.
[50:17] So sleeping is really hard.
[50:18] Sleeping's hard.
[50:19] And then you just lay in a dark room.
[50:20] You've got to close it off and lay in a dark room.
[50:23] I can't get up.
[50:24] That's why Sam had to take time off work because I couldn't even get up and get water.
[50:28] And then I've got three kids who all have sprinklings of neurodivergency who need full-on parenting and Sam's doing it all on his own.
[50:35] I just couldn't move.
[50:37] And I ended up in hospital all the time.
[50:38] And I've got a good girlfriend who's got MS and endo and she was like –
[50:46] You're so chronically ill and she is too.
[50:48] And even though it's so separate and different, our illnesses, we'd talk to each other all the time and just vent because it's so lonely being so chronically sick when it's so hidden.
[50:59] Yeah.
[51:00] And so we would just chat nonstop and be like, oh, my God, there has to be so many people suffering like this.
[51:05] And 49% of the population have a chronic illness, a hidden chronic illness.
[51:11] Wow.
[51:11] And majority of those are women as well.
[51:13] But everyone, I call them silent sufferers because when I started to speak about it, so many people would message me and go, oh my God, I've got this or my kids got this and I feel so alone.
[51:25] But it was such a huge amount of people out there.
[51:30] And I'm like, oh my God, it's just, it's so debilitating.
[51:34] Even if I wanted to have worked, I couldn't have because I just couldn't get out of bed.
[51:39] Like I literally couldn't get out of bed.
[51:41] I mean, and I don't, I'm not, I promise you I'm not trying to make you cry.
[51:45] But whenever I get sick, I'm just, I call my mum.
[51:50] Yeah.
[51:51] And like literally, I don't know why sometimes, like if I get a cold,
[51:57] I call my mum.
[51:58] Yeah, totally.
[51:59] All you want is your mum when you're sick.
[52:01] It's like when you're vomiting, you want your mum to hold your hair back, you know?
[52:04] It's like, yeah.
[52:06] And we know, obviously, how close you and your mum were.
[52:10] And so then last year, I mean, to be in bed 90% of the time...
[52:16] Of course, all you want is someone.
[52:19] If Sam's saying we need to get a carer, I don't know if you're thinking, but it's like, I need mum.
[52:24] Oh, I just needed mum so badly because no one cares for you like your mum does, you know.
[52:31] But also it was so challenging for Sam.
[52:34] And that's the thing, people with chronic illnesses, their partners or, you know, their family members go through so much as well.
[52:39] because Sam would just have to compartmentalise and he was constantly like, I'm so sorry, I can't nurture you more, but I've just got to get this stuff done.
[52:47] Like I have to, if I let in what's actually going on, we're both going down.
[52:52] And so he had to just take over everything.
[52:54] Yeah.
[52:56] So anyway, this girlfriend and I had to play my new podcast.
[52:58] It's called iChronic where we basically just talk about chronic illnesses.
[53:02] Which has been really cathartic.
[53:05] I bet.
[53:05] Yeah.
[53:06] And it's resonated with so many people, which is a bit depressing, but it also makes you feel less alone.
[53:11] Yeah.
[53:12] I imagine.
[53:12] And less misunderstood.
[53:14] Yeah.
[53:15] Yeah, it is.
[53:16] And people are like, oh, you know, I'm really, you know, I'm sorry that you're going through this.
[53:21] And what can I do?
[53:23] And people are beautiful, but no one can get it.
[53:25] You know, it is.
[53:26] It's really, our world became really small.
[53:30] Yeah.
[53:31] And it was just, yeah, us kind of, I feel like I was just locked in a little cave.
[53:34] Yeah.
[53:35] For nearly a year.
[53:36] Yeah.
[53:37] So if that was last year, what's changed?
[53:43] Have you changed something to make it or is it just you can't control it?
[53:47] I can't control it, but I did go into hospital for a week and have something called a lignocaine infusion, which is like...
[53:53] they just drip local anesthetic into you really slowly.
[53:57] And that's broken the cycle for me.
[53:59] But I'm living in constant anxiety because it's not a permanent thing.
[54:03] They're like, this could last a month, could last two months.
[54:06] And then I'm like, oh, God, they're going to come back at some point.
[54:09] And I just don't know when.
[54:10] Yeah, to never really know that you can just like relax and know that you can forward plan things.
[54:17] Yeah, it was so strange like not being able to plan a thing.
[54:21] Like think of your diary.
[54:22] I had nothing in there except appointments.
[54:25] If somebody would say, can we go out for –
[54:27] do you want to go out for a walk or something?
[54:29] I'd be like, I can't.
[54:30] Or if there was a kid's school event coming up, I'm like, well, I'm not going to that.
[54:34] There was just nothing written in my diary.
[54:36] I just couldn't because I hate having to cancel, which I've had to cancel on you guys once before because I had a migraine.
[54:44] So I'm not booking anything in anymore.
[54:47] And I would lie a lot because I felt really embarrassed, which I know doesn't make sense from an outsider, but...
[54:54] it is embarrassing being unwell all the time.
[54:58] And so people would say, can you come here?
[55:00] And I'd be like, no, sorry, I've got to work.
[55:02] Or the boys have got something on.
[55:03] But really I was just in bed.
[55:05] But do you think though, I mean, because I don't know if, well, I don't know, but if someone was, because having an invisible illness, yeah.
[55:14] Is that more embarrassing than having like, you know, if someone's got a physical illness or something where it's very clear, it's like everyone would be instantly understanding in the same way that people are very understanding of parents when they go, I have to actually go now because I've got, you know, people are, oh, of course, we'll go.
[55:32] But to have an invisible illness and particularly something like a migraine, which is so misunderstood.
[55:37] Yeah.
[55:38] people do, because I don't know, like before I knew you, my idea of migraines was just like, it's just a bad headache.
[55:46] Yeah.
[55:47] And so it's like, no.
[55:48] Get over it.
[55:49] Yeah, soldier on.
[55:49] It'll pass.
[55:50] Yeah.
[55:50] Yeah.
[55:52] Yeah.
[55:52] I think, yeah, it's funny too, because they're on and off migraines.
[55:56] The days I'm good, I'm good.
[55:58] So you would never know, you know.
[56:00] But I was over at the park with my kid the other day, side note, I hate parks so much.
[56:04] Playgrounds?
[56:05] Oh, playgrounds.
[56:06] Yeah, I don't understand.
[56:08] God.
[56:08] Anyway, so I'm at the park.
[56:10] I mean, I've grown out of them, but it's just, I know, the slides are a bit small for me now.
[56:16] A lot of people keep going.
[56:17] Yeah, I get it.
[56:19] So I was over at the park and I bumped into one of the school dads and I'd literally been in bed for six weeks.
[56:25] And so I dropped a bit of weight and I'd put on a bit of fake tan the night before.
[56:28] That's my thing to make me feel better because I'm so pale.
[56:32] And I was over at the park and he's like, hey, God, you've never looked better.
[56:35] Yeah.
[56:36] And I was like, are you joking?
[56:38] I thought he was being sarcastic, like he must have heard how sick I am.
[56:41] And I just thought, wow.
[56:43] And I had to say, I said, I've never been sicker in my life.
[56:46] But I just, it made me realise because this is so invisible, no one can see it.
[56:50] And I look better because I've dropped weight.
[56:53] People think you look good when you've dropped weight, but I drop weight because I can't eat when I'm sick.
[56:57] You're literally wearing a mask, a fake tan mask.
[56:59] Yeah, it is.
[57:00] It is masking.
[57:01] I sometimes feel like I'm constantly masking because people don't care that much either.
[57:06] I know I don't when someone's crook.
[57:07] I'm like, oh, I'm sorry for you, but then I go on with my life.
[57:10] You know what I mean?
[57:11] When Sam suggested that you guys should get a carer for you, how did it actually feel?
[57:20] Like what were you feeling when that became like the reality?
[57:24] Yeah, it was when he first said it, I was like, oh, he's joking.
[57:30] Yeah.
[57:31] But then I thought about it and I was like, he's right.
[57:36] And that was, I don't know, almost a bit like a failure.
[57:40] Like because he said it, but also there's no way we could afford a carer.
[57:45] Do you know what I mean?
[57:46] So it made me feel guilty for him that there's so much pressure on you to be my carer, plus work full time, plus look after the kids.
[57:57] It felt awful.
[57:58] Yeah.
[57:59] And not...
[58:00] by him, you know, meaning to make me feel awful, but I was like, he's right.
[58:04] Like this can't go on like this.
[58:07] And thank God we found a solution, like something that's cut the cycle so we didn't have to go down that path.
[58:14] But yeah, for a while there, it was looking like we're going to have to get help in just to look after me.
[58:20] Yeah.
[58:20] Which as a 43 year old, you know, being active and done a heap of stuff that was pretty full on.
[58:29] It was confronting.
[58:30] Yeah, it's sort of the, I guess that's a thing that like embarrassingly I don't really even think about when adults are so sick and they need a carer.
[58:42] Because it makes you from the outside, it goes, oh, that makes sense because you need help.
[58:47] And so there's a carer to help you with things that you can't do on your own.
[58:51] But to be the person who needs the help is, I never really think about that, that how hard that would be.
[58:57] Because in my mind, I'm like, no, that's ridiculous.
[59:00] But then I'm like, no, you've actually been in bed for six weeks.
[59:03] Like you haven't left bed for six weeks.
[59:05] Like that's not normal.
[59:07] Like you can't function through life.
[59:09] If there was an end date of going, well, this is going to end on this date, we can pull through.
[59:13] But there's no end date.
[59:14] There was no end date with it.
[59:15] You didn't know.
[59:16] It could end tomorrow.
[59:17] It could end in five months.
[59:18] Yeah.
[59:19] And the fact that every day I'd wake up and go, oh, it's still there.
[59:22] I can't get up.
[59:23] And I could just see the...
[59:25] Sam's face to like just deflate.
[59:28] Or then if I'm like, it's easing.
[59:29] So then I just stopped telling him.
[59:32] And I said, please stop asking how I am.
[59:33] I'm going to tell you when I'm good.
[59:34] Yeah, okay.
[59:36] Yeah.
[59:36] Yeah.
[59:37] You're diagnosed ADHD.
[59:39] Yeah.
[59:40] What sort of ADHD?
[59:42] I'm combination.
[59:43] Okay.
[59:43] Yeah.
[59:44] Yeah, that makes sense.
[59:45] And the podcast you guys did on ADHD a while ago was, I've got goosebumps now.
[59:52] It was so brilliant.
[59:53] I've never heard ADHD explained clearer and I've never related to it more.
[59:59] And my middle is...
[1:00:02] my middle child is very ADHD.
[1:00:04] Like I know you're either ADHD or not, same as if you're on the spectrum or not.
[1:00:07] You know, some people are like, oh, it's very autistic.
[1:00:10] It's like, no, you're either autistic or you're not.
[1:00:11] You've either got ADHD or you don't.
[1:00:14] But it just resonated with me so much.
[1:00:19] How does ADHD, like looking back on your life since you discovered that's in your life?
[1:00:25] And so when were you diagnosed as well?
[1:00:26] I was diagnosed only about three years ago.
[1:00:29] Right.
[1:00:30] But I look back, I was always kicked out of class for talking.
[1:00:33] I...
[1:00:36] I found schoolwork really challenging if it was boring, like the subjects I was good at, I could do.
[1:00:44] The other ones were, it was literally impossible for me.
[1:00:46] It feels like some things are impossible to do, even though for you it might be really easy.
[1:00:52] But reading instructions, like even for today, I was like, make sure I had to force myself to read it.
[1:00:58] It's like reading things.
[1:01:01] is really challenging, like getting the times right.
[1:01:04] So I was like, make sure it's 11 o'clock and, you know, just I have to really force myself to look at specific details.
[1:01:12] Yeah.
[1:01:13] I'll just read the first line and then I think I've got it, but I don't.
[1:01:17] Yeah.
[1:01:18] But you're not a late person, I wouldn't say, in my experience.
[1:01:21] I've got time blindness.
[1:01:23] You do.
[1:01:23] Hectically.
[1:01:24] Like before I came today, my boys like, let's play a game of pool.
[1:01:28] So we're playing pool and then I went and did my hair and then I'm driving a friend's car who I don't know how to, I don't know how to drive that car.
[1:01:35] So I should have been really in the car a lot earlier than I was.
[1:01:39] Yeah.
[1:01:39] Right.
[1:01:40] But I do that all the time.
[1:01:41] I think I can fit a million things into 10 minutes.
[1:01:45] Yeah.
[1:01:46] Yeah.
[1:01:46] It's so strange.
[1:01:48] But I also think, yeah, the hyper focus has really worked for me in a lot of ways because I do feel like if I set my mind on something, I can kind of make it happen.
[1:01:59] But it has also created huge anxiety for me and hard to focus.
[1:02:06] It's like it's a real double-edged sword.
[1:02:08] So when people say, oh, it's your superpower –
[1:02:11] That's so gaslighting.
[1:02:12] It's like, no, it's not.
[1:02:13] It's, it is, it does make things a lot harder.
[1:02:17] Yeah.
[1:02:18] So was it through your kid's journey that then you started to look at yourself as being possibly neurodivergent?
[1:02:24] Is that how, was there a pretty strong, like, was it as simple as that?
[1:02:28] Yeah, I think for most adults, when they find out they're neurodivergent is because of their kids.
[1:02:35] Which there's an incredible, for anyone who's neurodivergent or got neurodivergent kids, there's an incredible lady called Christy Forbes.
[1:02:42] Not sure if you've come across her, Hugh, but she's incredible.
[1:02:46] And she's neurodivergent, got five neurodivergent kids, but she was like,
[1:02:50] When I found out my kids were, I did her courses and stuff like that.
[1:02:54] And she was the one saying, it comes from somewhere.
[1:02:57] Like, it's so hereditary.
[1:03:00] And I was like, okay.
[1:03:02] And then I had a beautiful friend who's neurodivergent who said, you got to get yourself tested.
[1:03:08] Yeah.
[1:03:08] I was like, shit, really?
[1:03:10] Because you just, you yourself, you don't know any different.
[1:03:13] But it was also, yeah, looking at them, especially my middle child who's so ADHD.
[1:03:17] I'm like, oh, God, he drives me bonkers.
[1:03:20] He's me.
[1:03:21] Like, so that's what put me on the path of getting diagnosed.
[1:03:26] And I went to a psychiatrist.
[1:03:27] Yeah.
[1:03:28] And he's like, yes, you're ADHD.
[1:03:32] And I was like, okay.
[1:03:33] And then I tried the stimulants.
[1:03:35] No medication worked for me.
[1:03:37] Like none, didn't even touch the sides.
[1:03:39] I don't know why, I'm just not wired properly.
[1:03:41] Like something in my body does not work with medication properly.
[1:03:45] But it didn't do anything to me, which is also a sign.
[1:03:48] You know, if you get really speedy and stuff, it's not right for you.
[1:03:51] But I was like, he's wrong because every woman was coming out diagnosed with ADHD too.
[1:03:56] I'm like, anyone that walks into his office comes out ADHD.
[1:03:59] So I went and saw a set, I got a second opinion.
[1:04:01] And within two seconds, he's like, you're ADHD.
[1:04:04] I'm like, shit.
[1:04:06] But it was, it wasn't one of those huge reliefs for me.
[1:04:09] You know, some people like I was so relieved, but I was just kind of like, yeah, well, it makes sense.
[1:04:14] It's not, it doesn't scare me.
[1:04:16] But then I look back on a heap of things.
[1:04:18] I'm like, oh my God.
[1:04:19] I so am.
[1:04:20] Yeah.
[1:04:21] So obvious now.
[1:04:23] Does it allow you to have a bit more compassion for yourself?
[1:04:27] Yeah, I think so.
[1:04:28] Yeah, a little bit.
[1:04:31] I just notice when I do things, it's maybe not compassion, but it's more going, oh, that's because of...
[1:04:38] your ADHD.
[1:04:39] Just better understanding.
[1:04:40] Better understanding and noticing things more where I used to just assume maybe everyone was like that or I've always had this story that I'm dumb, which I know a lot of ADHD people do.
[1:04:53] And I still do to an extent.
[1:04:56] Yeah, I still do.
[1:04:58] I just don't feel...
[1:05:01] I feel like I'm really good at certain things and clever in certain ways, but I don't feel hugely intelligent.
[1:05:07] I don't feel, you know, when people are just kind of chatting about worldly news and stuff like that, I'm like, shit, I've got no interest there.
[1:05:17] I haven't read about that.
[1:05:17] I don't know what's going on there.
[1:05:19] You know, I just, I've kind of always had that.
[1:05:22] And now I realize, oh, that's ADHD.
[1:05:24] It's because I can't really focus on things I'm not interested in and, you know,
[1:05:28] It's not that I'm dumb, it's that I find doing certain things just really hard.
[1:05:35] Yeah.
[1:05:36] Yeah.
[1:05:37] Yeah.
[1:05:37] That makes complete sense.
[1:05:40] So just, I guess we're still on neurodivergence here, but I've spoken recently in the podcast about being a parent of a neurodivergent child.
[1:05:47] And I actually, I realized that is actually 100% the reason that I've stopped drinking
[1:05:53] It's been the last couple of years now and it was never a conscious thing.
[1:05:56] It was just, I find it is, it requires 100% of your mental, emotional and physical energy to parent a child who is neurodivergent.
[1:06:07] Yeah.
[1:06:08] And I'm thinking, and that's why I stopped drinking, but I'm just thinking about you with migraines and being unable to get out of bed.
[1:06:15] Yeah.
[1:06:16] that is hard for anyone, but then also having responsibility of parenting.
[1:06:20] You said there's a sprinkling of neurodivergence across your three kids.
[1:06:22] There's a large sprinkling there.
[1:06:24] Okay, a large sprinkling.
[1:06:27] That, I mean, it must be so hard.
[1:06:30] I mean, that's even, I feel stupid even saying that.
[1:06:32] No, no.
[1:06:32] It must be fucking impossible.
[1:06:34] Sometimes it feels like that.
[1:06:36] You know, of course they're beautiful boys and I love them a lot, but they have really different needs and opposite needs.
[1:06:43] And so it's full time and it takes more than two people to do it too.
[1:06:50] I'm like, we need...
[1:06:51] kind of a parent for every one of these kids and we don't have that and then we're down to one man down with me in bed and it all falls on sand.
[1:06:59] Yeah, it's really hard.
[1:07:01] And also because I'm neurodivergent too, like it, I hate the word, but it triggers me a lot.
[1:07:07] Like I see things in them or, you know, my capacity is so low that I'll, I, I, I, I
[1:07:14] I can't parent how I want to parent.
[1:07:16] It must be so hard.
[1:07:19] It's really, it's awful.
[1:07:21] You have a vision, don't you, of how, what kind of parent you'll be, and you don't even say it, you don't write it down, but you have a vision and a feeling of how you'll be as a parent, and you do not get that at any point.
[1:07:34] No.
[1:07:34] No.
[1:07:34] And I've had to, you know, really stop comparing our family to other families because I see families do really simple everyday things and I'm like, my family can't do that because it doesn't work for the boys.
[1:07:51] You know, their capacity might be low or they might be, you know, they might have anxiety and that will really flare it up and it's not worth it for us to attempt those kind of things.
[1:08:02] But sometimes really basic things.
[1:08:05] where I'm like, God, I really want to be able to do that.
[1:08:08] But that's been our biggest thing for Sam and I, having neurodivergent kids is saying we've got to run our own race here.
[1:08:14] And if they're on screen time for five hours a day, they're on screen time for five hours a day, where a lot of other families would never do that.
[1:08:22] You know, it's like our family's a screen-free family and I just feel like a stab of jealousy and anger
[1:08:30] That happens so many times in a day that I have to constantly work on not comparing and just going, this is how our family works.
[1:08:39] And if we don't have family dinners, we don't have family dinners because we can't all sit here without the boys kicking off.
[1:08:45] Yeah.
[1:08:45] And you're kind of, I mean, Byron's beautiful, but you're also kind of in the mecca of like perfect looking families.
[1:08:53] Yeah, it's so true.
[1:08:55] It is true.
[1:08:56] I feel like I will never be free of that comparing to other families because I feel like every stage will bring another thing I'm comparing it to.
[1:09:05] Yeah.
[1:09:05] So like...
[1:09:06] At a young age, it was just, for us, it was, we can't go there because there'll be a meltdown and it's going to be a huge set.
[1:09:12] It'll upset the other kids.
[1:09:15] But then the older they get, I'm sure there'll be, you know, we tried to do Auskick and it just didn't work.
[1:09:22] Like it was a very public failure.
[1:09:24] And so I can't help it.
[1:09:26] When I drive past families doing Oz Kick, I'm just so jealous of that and just think, gosh, that's what I'd love for us to be able to do it.
[1:09:34] We can't.
[1:09:35] I have no doubt when they get all the big things that we're unable to do
[1:09:40] And I just – I can't see myself ever being able to drive past things that I would love to be doing as a family and go, oh, that's okay.
[1:09:47] It's not our way.
[1:09:48] I just don't see myself ever being free of that.
[1:09:50] No, I don't really see myself being free of that either because you do.
[1:09:53] You have a – and you want that for your kids too.
[1:09:56] Like, you know, I see the limits –
[1:09:58] of what my eldest has always suffered with anxiety.
[1:10:04] And I see the things he misses out on because it's too much for him to do things.
[1:10:09] And sometimes we're like, is he just being a lazy teen or is that really too much for him to do?
[1:10:14] And that's also such a head fuck as a parent with neurodivergent kids, because you don't know what's them just being typical kids or what's too much for them.
[1:10:22] Do you find that Hugh?
[1:10:23] Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
[1:10:25] The battle for us is a bit different now.
[1:10:26] It's just like around what they're eating.
[1:10:29] That's like the... Oh, they're eating.
[1:10:30] Because I go, yeah, I mean, this is the most sugary thing of all time that you insist on eating and will not eat anything else.
[1:10:37] Am I being weak by giving in here or is this... Because I know that sugar is a very big thing for them, like it is for most kids, but I just don't know.
[1:10:45] So often I'm like, am I being a terrible parent here?
[1:10:47] Yeah.
[1:10:48] The amount of times I say to myself, I think I'm a really bad parent.
[1:10:51] that's what I just come back to all the time I think I'm really, I'm trying so hard but I just think I'm so bad because anyone watching externally would go you are, and you get watched so often people watch you and go that is terrible what you're doing but it's like I don't know how else to do this I don't know how to get us out of this situation for example
[1:11:12] Yeah, and I know what you mean, but you're so far from a terrible parent.
[1:11:17] I know you know that deep down, but that's, yeah, our self-talk is so hideous to us.
[1:11:24] And I think that when you've got challenging kids, we have to be so much kinder to ourselves.
[1:11:29] Like I'm constantly, Sam and I constantly, like we're doing the best we can do.
[1:11:33] Like they are really loved and loved.
[1:11:38] well looked after and they do have fun and they're awesome in so many ways.
[1:11:42] But yeah, they've got their extra challenges.
[1:11:44] But yeah, but I do – I know what you mean.
[1:11:49] Like the other day Sam gave me – had an intervention with me where he's like –
[1:11:54] you have got to stop talking to the boys like that.
[1:11:56] Because I get so frustrated and often my capacity is so low because I'm unwell, that I just go for the yell, like straight away.
[1:12:05] And Sam's like your relationship with them is getting damaged.
[1:12:09] And I'm like, shit, you're right.
[1:12:11] And I hear my eldest talk like that to my middle child and I'm like, Shivers, he's just mirroring me.
[1:12:16] But it's so hard when you've got such low capacity to get down on their level and, you know, look them in the eye.
[1:12:23] To lalestone them, yeah.
[1:12:24] Yeah, lalestone them.
[1:12:25] I listen to her and I'm like...
[1:12:27] God, I'm so far from that.
[1:12:29] But, you know, we're just doing the best we can do because it's not easy.
[1:12:33] It's not easy for anyone, Josh.
[1:12:34] I'm sure it's not easy for you either having typical kids.
[1:12:37] Well, it's not, but at least the general advice, I feel like the general parenting advice and stuff out there does work a lot of the time.
[1:12:49] So I do feel like it might not work every time, but it does work sometimes and it's like, well, that worked that time.
[1:12:55] But I see...
[1:12:56] I guess for us it's the opposite.
[1:12:58] Most of the time it doesn't work but sometimes it does.
[1:13:00] Yeah, exactly.
[1:13:02] So like, yeah, it's challenging but it's like it's challenging and a completely different and for me personally and looking at you guys at Hugh and Penny's parenting, I can't speak for you guys because I've never seen you and Sam parenting.
[1:13:17] We're pretty brilliant.
[1:13:19] Yeah.
[1:13:21] It just doesn't seem like.
[1:13:25] it seems like the most minute challenge in the world compared to what it seems like for you guys.
[1:13:31] And, yeah, it breaks my heart to hear you say that about yourself because I know it's not true, but I also imagine that if I was in your situation, I'd think it every second, every day.
[1:13:44] Yeah.
[1:13:45] Yeah.
[1:13:45] Yeah, that's what it is.
[1:13:47] Very much so.
[1:13:47] Yeah.
[1:13:47] It's like I chat to Sam about it a lot of us, you know, and it's just like...
[1:13:56] The amount of times you go, how the fuck are we here?
[1:13:59] Like, how is this happening right now?
[1:14:00] How am I in this situation?
[1:14:01] Like, I didn't even know this was – I didn't know the situation could get this heartbreaking or this challenging or this – it was like every day.
[1:14:09] Like, you go to bed and you're like, well, I've survived that.
[1:14:11] Which is why I just think about you with the chronic illness.
[1:14:14] Like –
[1:14:16] Like, I just don't understand.
[1:14:18] It's just unbelievable.
[1:14:19] You are so resilient.
[1:14:20] You are so resilient to be, you know, still going like you are.
[1:14:25] It's amazing.
[1:14:26] I also think what's our choice though, Hugh?
[1:14:28] Do you know what I mean?
[1:14:29] Like, you know, and thank you for that.
[1:14:32] But I also, I'm like, we don't have any choice.
[1:14:35] We've got these little humans that we've got to help mould and grow and have good lives because we're their parents, you know, and when it gets too hard and you feel so trapped sometimes,
[1:14:46] But we've got no choice either.
[1:14:48] It's like you've got to keep going.
[1:14:50] It's the same as when mum was passing.
[1:14:52] It's like people are like, you're so strong.
[1:14:53] It's like, well, I don't have any option.
[1:14:55] Like, we've just got to keep going.
[1:14:57] And just I also think as they get older,
[1:15:02] it gets easier.
[1:15:03] Like, because I know where you're at right now and I know you're in hell because we've been to hell and back, but we are back.
[1:15:10] Um, and not every day is perfect, but we have, um, I don't know if this is helpful hearing it, but we have a little boy now who has a job and is active with friends and he's playing soccer.
[1:15:24] And this was a kid who couldn't leave the front door for nearly years.
[1:15:28] Um,
[1:15:30] That's extremely, I mean, that's incredible hope.
[1:15:33] Yeah, I think as they get older and mature and as parents pulling away those expectations we have for them to be typical and give them, you know, change our whole environment to cater for them, it moulds them into being able to be a good person.
[1:15:52] Be really awesome people.
[1:15:53] And I know that your kids are really awesome, but I mean in terms of it not being as heartbreaking and as terrifying what the next day is going to be.
[1:16:03] Like I feel like just now I can feel my nervous system.
[1:16:06] I can let go a bit now.
[1:16:10] Just now though.
[1:16:11] I know.
[1:16:11] When you're in it, you can't.
[1:16:12] Because I said when we were in the thick of things, I said to Sam, I just wish there was an end date.
[1:16:17] Like I could do this if we knew there was an end date.
[1:16:20] But because there's no end date and you've just got to keep going and going and facing up to whatever you're presented with the next day.
[1:16:27] It's just so challenging.
[1:16:29] Do you think he, when you say he became more mature and it became easy once he's more mature, do you think that part of that is sort of becoming more self-aware?
[1:16:38] Yeah.
[1:16:39] And I also think, yes, because you just kind of are.
[1:16:43] You just naturally do, yeah.
[1:16:44] Yeah.
[1:16:45] But we've also really invested in professional help for him.
[1:16:49] And luckily he's always been really open to it.
[1:16:51] And so if kind of a problem comes up, we'll say, can we work on this this week and, you know, help him with that.
[1:16:59] But I do think it has been...
[1:17:02] us not putting pressure on him to do things that he really can't do.
[1:17:06] Like, for example, my sister was taking them into the city today and he said, I don't want to go, mum.
[1:17:12] And again, I'm like, are you just being a lazy teen or can you not go?
[1:17:15] And I thought about it.
[1:17:16] I'm like, the city's really busy.
[1:17:17] You're going to go on public transport.
[1:17:19] There's so much going on there.
[1:17:20] That's too overwhelming for him.
[1:17:22] So I'm not going to push him to do that.
[1:17:23] Otherwise, he's going to be laying down for two days.
[1:17:28] It's just so much more exhausting being neurodivergent because you just move at such a faster pace, you know.
[1:17:35] And also as a parent of a neurodivergent kid, you've got to constantly think two steps ahead and analyse what's going to happen next.
[1:17:41] Is this going to happen?
[1:17:42] Okay, what's the consequence for this?
[1:17:43] Or when Sam and I go anywhere now...
[1:17:46] It's like, okay, if things go bad, let's just go.
[1:17:49] Let's just leave.
[1:17:50] Like where we, before they were diagnosed, we never thought like that.
[1:17:54] It's kind of like a before diagnosis and after diagnosis life for us.
[1:17:59] And Monty, you were saying before that you've had anxiety yourself?
[1:18:03] Is that right?
[1:18:04] I mean, that always needing to be a few, like thinking of the worst possible scenario and thinking as a parent ahead, that's kind of what anxiety is.
[1:18:14] It totally is what anxiety is.
[1:18:16] And then you have to be leaning into that and listening to that voice for the betterment of your children in the situation.
[1:18:24] But also that's got to be so hard for you.
[1:18:28] Yeah, it is hard.
[1:18:29] But it's also – there is sometimes a difference between anxiety and forward planning.
[1:18:35] And I think I've got better with that.
[1:18:36] Yeah.
[1:18:37] And thought of, you know, if we're going to somebody's house, what – if this happens or this happens or this happens, let's just pull the pin.
[1:18:45] Or maybe we just take one kid to this activity.
[1:18:47] Yeah.
[1:18:48] So I –
[1:18:49] Yes, like it can make my anxiety worse, usually when it happens, you know, if it comes true.
[1:18:54] But it's more having to really forward plan for every activity.
[1:19:00] Yeah.
[1:19:01] Okay.
[1:19:01] That's interesting.
[1:19:03] I also think it's worth saying, and I am no expert, but I think you jokingly said that you and Sam are perfect or you're incredible parents before.
[1:19:15] But I think that things only get better through...
[1:19:20] Like things have gotten easier not just because of the maturity and incredible strength and brilliance of your children but also because of the amount of – incredible amount of work that you guys would have put in over the years.
[1:19:33] And I look at you and Penny as well and I think it's like with how much you must feel like you're failing, I think it's worth patting yourselves on the back to say that your kids wouldn't be –
[1:19:44] able to thrive in the world more and more without the work that you guys are doing and the work that you've put in and how the millions of invisible things that you've done that no one else sees it's pretty remarkable oh thank you yeah it's incredible yeah now you're gonna make me cry well i i will um um no you lost josh made me cry first i don't want to jump on this bandwagon
[1:20:08] I feel like I could tell you this like off the podcast, but sometimes these things are kind of easier to say on the podcast.
[1:20:16] Yeah, isn't it funny?
[1:20:17] I always feel more comfortable on mic talking to people than off.
[1:20:21] That's so sick.
[1:20:22] It's sick, yeah.
[1:20:23] I think it's because of the praise that I might get.
[1:20:25] Yeah, exactly, yeah.
[1:20:28] But genuinely, knowing what you've said,
[1:20:34] like not even just like dealt with, but what you've achieved alongside everything you've done, I'm so in awe of you, like of what you're able, you're not crying yet.
[1:20:49] What else can I say?
[1:20:52] I'll take it.
[1:20:54] No, no, no.
[1:20:54] Just give me another chance.
[1:20:58] I just can't believe what you've done.
[1:21:01] I can't believe it.
[1:21:03] It's just amazing.
[1:21:04] It's just amazing.
[1:21:10] Yeah, thanks, Schultz.
[1:21:11] I feel, it's funny, I feel really uncomfortable you saying that.
[1:21:14] No, I know, I know.
[1:21:15] I just, I also, and I know you're not meaning that at all.
[1:21:21] I'm not crying, by the way, so you didn't win.
[1:21:22] Yeah, fuck.
[1:21:23] But I also don't.
[1:21:26] Like I feel, I think we don't share a lot and I know I've shared a lot today.
[1:21:31] And when we've talked about today, what I have been through, I'm like, fuck, a lot of it's pretty grim, but I don't want to be known as that person.
[1:21:40] You know, I don't want to be known as the mum who's got the challenging kids.
[1:21:44] So I can't come to a lot of things.
[1:21:45] I don't want to be known as the sick woman.
[1:21:47] I don't want to be known as those things because there is so much more to me than that.
[1:21:54] Totally.
[1:21:54] But yeah, I know what you mean.
[1:21:56] But I feel like that has dominated quite a few of the last years that that's how I'm starting to think a bit too and I don't want to.
[1:22:04] I don't want to lose my spark in all of that.
[1:22:08] If it helps, we can cut out all the bits where you talk about your struggles in this podcast.
[1:22:12] And it'll be literally two minutes long.
[1:22:17] Is this the grimmest one you've ever done?
[1:22:19] No, not at all.
[1:22:20] To me, it's like one of the most inspiring.
[1:22:22] Like it's like to me, it's just like a picture of resilience and strength.
[1:22:26] That's what it is.
[1:22:26] Like that's who you are, like an incredibly strong person who is so resilient and despite all the things that's happened, like you walked in here just with a bigger smile and made us laugh so much.
[1:22:37] You're not a comedian but very funny.
[1:22:40] But just so full of life and that's who you are.
[1:22:43] Like, yeah.
[1:22:45] I think during this, like Sam and I have still been able to laugh, which has been incredible.
[1:22:50] Like he still makes me probably second to you, Sheltz, the person that makes me laugh the most.
[1:22:54] He's always number two.
[1:22:55] Always number two.
[1:22:56] He hasn't Stephen Bradbury'd this one yet.
[1:22:59] But we still manage to laugh.
[1:23:02] And sometimes when things are really fucked, we'll laugh.
[1:23:05] Because it's like, well, you just got to.
[1:23:07] We have had to become such a thick team to get through this.
[1:23:11] And so many couples break up and I get it.
[1:23:14] But is that a new thing you've had to kind of learn to be like, to rely.
[1:23:20] Rely on him more.
[1:23:21] Yeah.
[1:23:21] Yeah, it has been.
[1:23:23] And I, especially with the money thing, and I know people don't talk about money because it just feels icky, but I hate that he brings in all the money.
[1:23:30] I don't like it.
[1:23:31] I don't like, you know...
[1:23:34] And he would never question what I buy, but I am conscious when I buy things because I'm like, well, this isn't essential for our family.
[1:23:40] And we're a one-income family now where we're always a two-income family.
[1:23:43] So me getting a pair of Golden Goose is not essential, but I want those bloody Golden Goose.
[1:23:48] What's the Golden Goose?
[1:23:48] Oh, they're very fancy shoes, Chelsea.
[1:23:50] Pricey, fancy shoes.
[1:23:52] But I, yeah, I don't like...
[1:23:56] that he will say that on the statement.
[1:23:58] It's ridiculous because he doesn't care, but I just, I don't like that feeling.
[1:24:04] No, it's not.
[1:24:04] And I have in so many ways and he would just be even shocked that I would think or feel like that, but so emotionally dependent on him now and so financially dependent on him.
[1:24:16] Yeah, it's been a huge adjustment, but you know him like he's incredible.
[1:24:21] Oh, he's great.
[1:24:21] Like so incredible that, um,
[1:24:24] that's probably made it easier because it's never, ever been used against me.
[1:24:28] God.
[1:24:29] He's most likely on the bench press right now.
[1:24:30] So hello, Sam.
[1:24:31] Yeah, probably.
[1:24:32] He probably is.
[1:24:33] He's always.
[1:24:35] His thing is, mine to get through is what other drugs are offered by the psychiatrist.
[1:24:40] His is, if I go to the gym or for a run, Hugh, like you, he can get through.
[1:24:44] He's amazing.
[1:24:46] Just a bit of times he'll message me saying, hey, mate, just listen to so-and-so's podcast.
[1:24:49] I was on the bench press when... You're on the bench press a lot.
[1:24:53] LAUGHTER
[1:24:54] He really wants your nose on the bench press.
[1:24:57] Could have just said, just listen to this episode.
[1:24:59] Hey, just listen to this episode.
[1:25:00] P.S.
[1:25:01] was also benching while I was listening.
[1:25:03] So tell everyone.
[1:25:08] Well, I did.
[1:25:10] Exactly.
[1:25:11] Mance, that was...
[1:25:14] Fully sick.
[1:25:15] Oh, great.
[1:25:16] And thanks so much for having me on.
[1:25:18] Like I so just love what you guys do, which I know every guest who comes in probably says that, but it's so important having three guys talk about what you talk about and sharing and being so vulnerable.
[1:25:32] Like it's just, it's incredible.
[1:25:34] So thank you for what you do.
[1:25:36] And thanks for having me on.
[1:25:37] I had huge imposter syndrome coming in here again.
[1:25:40] Wild.
[1:25:42] But I've loved it.
[1:25:43] So thank you.
[1:25:44] We love you.
[1:25:44] We think you're amazing.
[1:25:45] And, yeah, thank you so much for joining us.
[1:25:47] Thanks.
[1:25:48] Thanks, Mons.
[1:26:00] What a woman.
[1:26:02] I love that woman.
[1:26:04] I'm not in love with her, but that came on pretty strong.
[1:26:09] She's so great.
[1:26:10] She's so great, yeah.
[1:26:11] That is quite a headline if you've just announced it.
[1:26:13] You're in love with Monty.
[1:26:14] I'm in love with that woman.
[1:26:15] Wow, yeah, what a time to announce it.
[1:26:17] That's a good thing for us to discuss as the reflection of the answer.
[1:26:19] There's probably never been a better time to announce it.
[1:26:23] No, I'm not in love with Monty, but I do love her.
[1:26:26] Yeah.
[1:26:26] Yeah.
[1:26:27] Good clarification.
[1:26:27] Important clarification.
[1:26:29] There was one thing that stood out to me from that conversation.
[1:26:32] Well, there's many things that really stood out to me, but the one thing I want to talk about is something that I think is very much on the horizon for you and me, Josh.
[1:26:40] Yeah.
[1:26:41] And that is this, and I have heard it from friends who are going through it now.
[1:26:44] We've talked a lot about seasons and chapters of your life.
[1:26:48] But this one is one that Monty has lived, which is almost like the in-between generation or the, like your care needs to go in both directions.
[1:26:59] So that stage in life where you're trying to bring up your kids and deal with,
[1:27:05] the emotions that come with trying to deal with the kids.
[1:27:07] So doing lunches in the morning and doing school drop-offs and dealing with tantrums and trying to help kids work their way into the world.
[1:27:15] But on the other end, you're also caring for your aging parents who, for the first time in your life and their life, the roles have switched where all of a sudden you're caring for them.
[1:27:24] So perhaps you're doing the school drop-off and then all of a sudden,
[1:27:27] And you're dealing with, you know, maybe kids have forgot their reader or forgot their lunch.
[1:27:30] And then the next minute you're taking your dad or your mom to a medical appointment and you're potentially explaining to them what is happening or what the diagnosis is or what the doctor said.
[1:27:42] And then trying to deal with their medication and try and get them into care, all those kind of things.
[1:27:45] That's such an interesting...
[1:27:47] I'd never really thought about it like that.
[1:27:49] I mean, obviously, it's not as intense for someone who doesn't have children.
[1:27:52] But yeah, that's such an interesting time where you're in between both.
[1:27:57] Yeah.
[1:27:57] And I think it's...
[1:27:58] I definitely talked a lot about the invisible load of parenting a neurodivergent child.
[1:28:03] But I think there's very much an invisible load there that I think a lot of us wouldn't say.
[1:28:08] I certainly, unless someone told me, I wouldn't know that at a school drop-off, I would think to the parent, well done, you've got through the...
[1:28:16] morning ritual of getting your kids to school on time, but then not knowing they're now going to go and spend the day with their parents who need them or maybe their parents live with them now.
[1:28:27] I think either one of those is very difficult to be doing both at the same time.
[1:28:31] I reckon there was a lot of people listening to that episode or that chat with Monty who are probably living that right now.
[1:28:38] And it must be so hard.
[1:28:40] It must be so incredibly challenging to be like an emotional whiplash between being for your kids being that sort of gentle and supportive person.
[1:28:52] figure in their life and then switching to your parents where you're being potentially something very different to them because that's what they need at that time.
[1:29:02] And it must be so incredibly hard.
[1:29:05] Absolutely.
[1:29:06] I think it's sort of very distant on the horizon in my mind.
[1:29:11] Like I don't really think about it maybe as much as I should.
[1:29:15] I kind of, just to be clear, like just so it doesn't sound like something's happened to our parents.
[1:29:20] Our parents are both very healthy and still like incredibly independent.
[1:29:28] Like we're not at this stage at all yet, but it will happen one day.
[1:29:33] And I think I kind of have a slight denial about it.
[1:29:38] Like I just assume they'll always be there.
[1:29:41] Yeah, I have a similar thing.
[1:29:43] Yeah, and I think in my head I'm just like, well, I don't want that day to come so I'm not going to think about it and when it does happen I'll just have to deal with it then.
[1:29:54] But aware that it will happen one day, there is something very beautiful and tragic and kind of just like
[1:30:02] It seems fundamental to life, what you're describing, that like young kids growing and older people aging.
[1:30:09] I just think in my... Like mum and dad are 75 and 76 respectively, very healthy.
[1:30:16] In your head, they've got 25 years?
[1:30:17] Yeah, 25, 30 years to go.
[1:30:20] I'm assuming they'll live to 105-ish.
[1:30:21] Okay.
[1:30:21] That would be great.
[1:30:24] Yeah, but yeah, you don't know.
[1:30:26] As Dad often reminds us, you don't know.
[1:30:29] It could happen tomorrow, which is not a nice thing to hear Dad say.
[1:30:32] No.
[1:30:32] But yeah, it's something that I haven't considered properly yet.
[1:30:37] Well, I've thought about it a lot recently because one of my –
[1:30:41] closest friends from when we were 12.
[1:30:43] She went through this last year and I've never seen her ever struggle with anything.
[1:30:49] She's always just been so resilient to sort of really glided through life effortlessly.
[1:30:55] And I've always admired that about her.
[1:30:57] This is the
[1:31:00] both her kids and her parents at the same time.
[1:31:02] It's the first time I've seen her really, really struggle.
[1:31:06] And that to me was a very jolting reminder of how difficult it is and how difficult it will be.
[1:31:11] And then hearing Monty talk about the passing of her mum really just made me think about that.
[1:31:19] And I think I just wanted to bring it up just to say for anyone out there who's going through it, it's this invisible load that people don't know about.
[1:31:27] And gosh, yeah, it must be a lot.
[1:31:31] Do you reckon that – do you reckon – I mean, this is individual specific, but do you think that by having kids and having the experience of –
[1:31:43] looking after kids.
[1:31:45] Do you think that would better prepare you for that time when your parents do need you?
[1:31:50] Yeah, maybe, yeah.
[1:31:52] Yeah, I was going to say the opposite.
[1:31:54] Okay.
[1:31:54] Well, I think I don't know the answer and I think it probably is individualistic, but I feel like I think when it's your own parents, you kind of think there's a fundamental bond as a child to a parent and I have a feeling when it gets to that point, no matter how much child rearing I've done and how much looking after other people I've done, I think it will be very hard to overcome that fundamental bond of being the child.
[1:32:20] Okay.
[1:32:21] To a parent.
[1:32:22] The role.
[1:32:23] That role, yeah.
[1:32:24] That role, yeah, exactly.
[1:32:26] And I imagine that would be made extremely difficult if you happen to have a not very healthy or positive relationship with your parents and then are sort of forced into a situation where you have to...
[1:32:38] Oh, that'd be hard.
[1:32:38] Care for them and you have a lot of trauma or bad history there with your own parents.
[1:32:44] Or if your parents are separated and then you're in a really complicated situation where maybe they're not communicating with each other or any myriad of difficult situations.
[1:32:55] Or even if it's only you, you're an only child or your other siblings don't want to help.
[1:33:00] There's so many ways I think that it could be so difficult to
[1:33:04] I mean, the other thing as well is if, because I guess the difference, one of the many differences, I guess, of like looking after a child versus looking after a parent is the expectation from the child is, yeah, you look after me.
[1:33:19] Like that's what you do.
[1:33:20] But like I would imagine there'd be often a lot of pushback from a parent because they're just like, I don't need your help.
[1:33:27] So difficult.
[1:33:27] The stubbornness of thinking like, you know, they're not ready and it's embarrassing.
[1:33:31] And that would be when you clearly know it's like you do need help, but they're not really letting you in.
[1:33:38] Yeah.
[1:33:38] Because that's like you say, Josh, that's not the role.
[1:33:40] It's not the dynamic.
[1:33:41] It's not the dynamic, yeah.
[1:33:42] Yeah, so my gut feeling is that, yeah, maybe it could prepare you a bit because you've helped other people in a sort of selfless way.
[1:33:49] I guess that is kind of part of parenting.
[1:33:51] But I think there are so many other things that could overtake that and just make it an incredibly difficult experience.
[1:33:57] Anyway, it was a wonderful conversation with Monty and we're so, so grateful to have her in the studio.
[1:34:01] Yeah.
[1:34:01] That's one we wanted to have for a long time.
[1:34:03] I do think in general we don't talk enough about...
[1:34:07] Interesting, we're about to wrap up.
[1:34:08] Yeah, go on.
[1:34:12] But no, I think...
[1:34:12] I can just feel Bridget about to walk through the curtain.
[1:34:14] Nope, nope.
[1:34:15] Josh is going again.
[1:34:18] Sorry, everyone.
[1:34:19] No, I think I reckon that our kind of discussion then has made me realise I don't think we talk enough in our Australian Western culture really about that stage of life, about moving into old age, end of life, caring for people at the end of their life.
[1:34:38] I heard this recently that like we talk, there's so much information and advice and stuff on birth, but really nothing really on death in comparison.
[1:34:49] Yeah.
[1:34:50] It's something, an area that we could be talking a lot more about doing a lot better.
[1:34:53] And yeah, I just feel like it's occurred to me only through this conversation what a blind spot it is for me that I really haven't thought about it.
[1:34:59] But it's such an important thing to do well, if you can.
[1:35:04] Yeah, true.
[1:35:05] Hugh, permission to wrap up?
[1:35:07] Yep.
[1:35:08] Wasn't Monty wonderful?
[1:35:09] Yeah.
[1:35:10] She was.
[1:35:11] She sure was.
[1:35:12] Yeah, good wrap up.
[1:35:13] No, it was great.
[1:35:15] Like I said, I love her.
[1:35:18] We'll be back next week.
[1:35:19] Yeah.
[1:35:22] Thanks, guys.
[1:35:23] See you.
[1:35:27] If you enjoyed this episode, you'll love the vulnerability email.
[1:35:30] It's a weekly newsletter that helps you remain imperfect.
[1:35:33] Each week, we'll send you one vulnerable question inspired by the current episode to help you unpack your own imperfect life.
[1:35:38] Subscribe at www.theimperfects.com.au.

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