# Surprise! You’re Writing A Book!

An episode of [The Imperfects](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1476501557), 16 Jan 2025, 33 min.

Audio: https://enrichment.soundstack.com/4vjqq8/episode.flightcast.com/as8ylqm0xleg40tl5s7si1w4.mp3

B b b bonus episode! We proudly present to you My Imperfect Life: a novel journal written by you. That’s right, we’re releasing a book, but making you do all the work. With 100 questions inspired by episodes from 2024 on The Imperfects, My Imperfect Life is an introduction to vulnerability, allowing you to unpack your own imperfect life and be more vulnerable with yourself (because we know vulnerability with others can be A LOT). To celebrate the launch of My Imperfect Life, we are inviting you to a reverse book singing at Readings Emporium Melbourne on Friday January 31st at 5:30pm, where we want to meet you, the author (and perhaps get a photo with you too, and maybe an autograph if you’re not too busy). 🎟️ To buy a ticket to the Reverse Book Signing (which includes a copy of My Imperfect Life that you will pick up on the day), follow this link – https://bit.ly/4hh0tcl 📖 To just purchase My Imperfect Life, click here – https://www.theimperfects.com.au/shop/ 📃 To become our penpal, join The VulnerabiliTea-mail, a weekly newsletter where we’ll send you one vulnerable question inspired by the current episode, to help you unpack your own imperfect life. Subscribe at theimperfects.com.au 🎧 Things to listen to • Nathan Cavaleri – The Ups & The Blues - https://apple.co/42aTmh6 • Michael Klim – The Race of His Life - https://bit.ly/4aiMyQr • Rana Hussain – Belonging For Connection - https://apple.co/3NwftWC

## Transcript

[0:03] B-b-b-bonus episode.
[0:06] Nice little summer bony.
[0:08] Okay.
[0:10] I said bony.
[0:11] Yeah.
[0:12] I wasn't trying to be crass, I promise.
[0:13] I was saying like... You promise?
[0:14] I absolutely promise you.
[0:16] I was just abbreviating.
[0:17] Like Aussies like to abbreviate things.
[0:19] I was trying to abbreviate bonus and I made it bony.
[0:21] Yeah.
[0:21] Yeah, cool.
[0:22] Summer bony.
[0:22] And you know what?
[0:23] I can't see that catching on.
[0:26] I've never heard bonus because technically it's the same amount of syllables.
[0:29] There's actually no need to say bony.
[0:31] You can say bonus.
[0:32] Well, my friends from school call me Huey, which is more than Hugh.
[0:34] Which is longer.
[0:35] True.
[0:36] Yeah.
[0:36] So that's all.
[0:37] There's my influence right there.
[0:38] Imagine all the time they would have had.
[0:40] Imagine how much more productive they would have been at school if they weren't adding that extra syllable onto your name.
[0:44] There's only one person actually, but yeah.
[0:46] Okay.
[0:46] I'll pass it on to her.
[0:47] Well, please pass on that number to me and I will let them know.
[0:50] Okay.
[0:51] Not what we're here to talk about, believe it or not.
[0:54] But hopefully you've been enjoying our exciting Academy of Imperfection summer school.
[0:58] Yeah.
[0:59] We're just loving it.
[1:01] I have, by the way, because I mean, I knew we'd done them, but it'd been a while.
[1:04] So now I get to listen to them and it's lovely.
[1:06] Big bony.
[1:08] That's a huge bony.
[1:11] Okay.
[1:11] Now you can't promise.
[1:13] Now you can't promise.
[1:16] But there is a reason we're doing this little bony episode.
[1:20] And that is, for those of you who have looked at our Instagram at all, you might have seen that we are getting very excited about not one announcement, but Josh, how many big announcements?
[1:32] Three big announcements.
[1:33] Three big announcements to kick off the year.
[1:37] Yeah.
[1:37] And we're very excited to tell you that the first big announcement is happening right now.
[1:42] Mm-hmm.
[1:43] And that big announcement is in the form of a book.
[1:50] We are releasing a book, but it's a very novel book.
[1:55] We didn't write it.
[1:56] Nicely done.
[1:57] Tell them why, Hugh.
[1:58] To everyone listening, you write this book.
[2:00] Well, you will.
[2:01] Yeah, sorry.
[2:02] Yeah, this is getting confusing.
[2:03] Yeah.
[2:03] Let's just explain what it is.
[2:05] So the book that is available today, and you can go to the link, you can go to our website, www.theimperfects.com.au.
[2:15] buy one of these books because this book is called My Imperfect Life.
[2:19] Josh, it looks like a novel to me.
[2:21] It does.
[2:22] Well, it says on the cover it's a novel journal written by you.
[2:26] So it looks like a novel, feels like one, but no one's written on the pages yet.
[2:32] Uh-oh.
[2:32] Yeah.
[2:35] It's an oversight.
[2:37] No, it's intentional.
[2:38] Very intentional.
[2:39] Yeah.
[2:39] But there are questions throughout.
[2:40] So the questions that we've put in this journal relate to episodes from last year.
[2:46] I've been inspired by episodes from last year.
[2:49] Yeah.
[2:50] Essentially, it's a journal, but we wanted to do a journal in a slightly different way and one that made the most of the incredible guests we had on the podcast last year and the incredible topics that they brought up.
[3:02] Yeah, well, I guess to go back a step before there was a journal, whenever we have these different guests in and we have these great conversations, often after they leave, we find ourselves as a team and as a group talking about things that have come out of the app, like sort of...
[3:18] Either questions that were directly asked sometimes or sometimes just have made us think of questions afterwards about our own lives.
[3:24] And I've had some really profound and brilliant conversations as a group off the back of some of these eps.
[3:31] And then we've heard of other people doing the same.
[3:33] People out there have got WhatsApp groups that discuss episodes and stuff like that.
[3:38] And we thought, what a great way to try and sort of give people a place to put some reflections on.
[3:46] not so much reflection on the episodes, but reflections potentially on themselves off the back of certain episodes.
[3:51] I'm so sorry.
[3:52] I have not listened to a word anyone said for the last five minutes, genuinely.
[3:54] Okay.
[3:55] Okay, that's all right.
[3:56] You'll be able to catch up pretty quickly, Hugh.
[3:58] Are you okay?
[3:59] Yeah, no, I just started looking at the questions.
[4:02] Yeah.
[4:03] They're so good.
[4:04] And I'm not doing a thing here.
[4:05] I genuinely stopped listening.
[4:07] Wow.
[4:07] I was looking at questions going, they're so bloody good.
[4:09] I can't wait to actually sit down and finish this.
[4:11] So I trust you guys said great things.
[4:13] And how are you?
[4:14] It was a bit of a roast of you, actually.
[4:17] Absolutely kicking off on Hugh.
[4:18] We just kept saying, I bet he's not listening.
[4:20] I bet he's not listening.
[4:21] Turns out we were right.
[4:23] You were.
[4:24] Well, welcome back to the show, Hugh.
[4:25] Thank you.
[4:27] So nice to have 33% of the show back.
[4:32] So what is in this book, I guess, is the question.
[4:34] Yeah, well, I feel like we're talking a little bit generally and it might be good for us to...
[4:37] I mean, we've gone away and looked at it and read some of the questions because we felt it might be useful for people to understand what kind of questions are in the book and maybe for us to give an example of how you use it.
[4:48] Well, I think the main purpose for me was like a lot of people...
[4:52] from our show see vulnerability as going and sharing something you're going through with someone else.
[4:56] And that can be a really big jump for some people.
[4:58] I think getting it out of your head and onto paper is often the first step.
[5:02] And so maybe you would like to just be more sort of vulnerable with yourself or practice vulnerability.
[5:07] That's why this journal is being created, inspired by episodes and guests we've had on.
[5:12] We've put together this journal with questions there for you to answer so you can practice being vulnerable or you can be vulnerable sort of without people watching or listening,
[5:20] Yeah, kind of like doing your own little episode, but written form.
[5:24] Yeah.
[5:25] And so as Josh said, today the three of us have prepared an answer to one of the questions that we can share as an example of how this can look and sound.
[5:33] But we will do that in a minute.
[5:35] The thing we need to talk about is we have a really, really exciting event coming up, which we would love to invite you to.
[5:42] Yes.
[5:42] And this event is a reverse book signing.
[5:45] Yes.
[5:46] Yeah.
[5:46] And the reason to reverse book signing is because usually at a book signing, you would go and line up to meet your favourite author for the book you've just read or you're going to read and get their signature or get a photo with them.
[5:58] But because with this, you are the author, the person who gets the book, we would like to actually meet you.
[6:05] I mean, we're desperate to.
[6:07] And if it's okay, we'd love to get a photo with you as well.
[6:09] It'll be very quick.
[6:10] We won't hassle you too much, but if we could just quickly.
[6:13] And maybe an autograph.
[6:15] Yeah.
[6:15] Yeah.
[6:15] I know you're really busy.
[6:16] So, yeah.
[6:17] I mean, you've probably got heaps of people coming up to you wanting your photo now that you're an author.
[6:21] So, we don't take up too much of your time, but if you do want to come, come to Readings on January 31st at 5.30pm.
[6:28] Straight after work at the Emporium in Melbourne.
[6:31] And we would love to get a quick photo with you and we'd love you to sign your book on
[6:37] And we might even do a little reading from one of our journals at the event as well.
[6:41] So you'll get to come sign your own book as the author and hear some new reflections from us.
[6:46] Go to the link in the show notes of this episode and you just need to buy a book.
[6:50] Yes.
[6:51] Well, hang on.
[6:51] Let's be clear.
[6:52] You buy a ticket.
[6:53] To the event.
[6:54] Yep.
[6:55] And with that ticket, you get a book.
[6:57] Which you'll pick up on the day when you get there.
[6:58] Yes.
[6:59] The book is the same price as the ticket.
[7:01] Yeah.
[7:02] Ryan's right.
[7:03] You're buying a book and that is...
[7:04] Yes.
[7:04] Anyway.
[7:05] But if you can't come to the event, if you live somewhere else, so you just can't make it and you just want to buy the book, there's a link to buy the book in the description as well.
[7:11] Great.
[7:12] Should we get to some of our... We should.
[7:14] We must.
[7:15] Journal entries.
[7:16] Who wants to go first?
[7:17] They look great.
[7:18] They feel great.
[7:19] My Imperfect Life, a novel journal written by you.
[7:23] I want to go first.
[7:24] Yeah.
[7:24] Yeah.
[7:25] Okay.
[7:26] So we read, we're not reading what we've written.
[7:28] No, I feel like my, okay.
[7:30] So the question I've answered is, was inspired by Nathan Cavalieri's episode, which was one of my favorite titles of the year, actually the ups and the blues.
[7:39] So, but the question is how have the opinions of others shaped the person you've become?
[7:46] It's a great question.
[7:48] I reckon I won't read it word for word.
[7:49] It's a bit long and I think one of the goodies of a journal is it's kind of for me to read.
[7:55] It's a bit messy.
[7:56] Yeah.
[7:56] It's not that well written.
[7:57] Yeah, it's got a little riff on it.
[7:58] Yeah.
[7:59] It's got a little riff on it.
[8:00] But the crux of it is that I think the opinions of others have shaped me for most of my life way too much and have been a big issue for me in that I think they've held me back from experiencing life
[8:13] to the fullest a lot for putting myself out there creatively on many, almost all occasions throughout my life.
[8:22] What people think of me has been too strong a part of the consideration when making decisions, all kinds of decisions, like financial decisions, like, well, like what would my parents think if I do this, like just too much focus on that.
[8:35] However, as I was writing, I also don't think, I don't agree with the idea that you shouldn't care what other people think of you either.
[8:43] I think if you go too far in that direction, well, for me anyway, I would worry if I went too far in that direction, I would become a bit too disconnected from the world around me.
[8:54] I think there's a level to which...
[8:57] caring about what others think of you, but being very careful about who you care about is an important part of being part of a community, I think.
[9:06] Yeah.
[9:08] But I think something's happened to me in the last few years that have made me sure enough in myself that I can start to go, well, actually I don't really care about what that person thinks, but I do care about what that person thinks.
[9:21] And I think I wrote down what the three factors were because I thought...
[9:24] I thought you were going to say I've written down the people who I don't care about.
[9:29] Well, the realisation I came to was that, yeah, so it wasn't until I started to feel comfortable with who I am that I started to be able to feel that I could sort of realistically accept that some people might have an opinion on me that I didn't like, but it doesn't actually matter.
[9:45] So the three factors I thought were age, family and success.
[9:49] It's something I care about.
[9:51] And I don't know if that...
[9:53] That's what came out yesterday when I was writing.
[9:56] I wrote a note next to each one that age, I just feel a bit tired and exhausted of caring.
[10:02] Like I've sort of, I'm just sick of having that weight on my shoulders of caring what about every, every single person, what they think about me.
[10:09] Yeah, it's exhausting.
[10:12] Family, I'm really lucky enough to have two kids and a wife that we're so happy and things are going really well.
[10:21] So I think that I know sort of in my core that that's the most important thing in my world and that there's safety in that.
[10:29] At the end of the day, they're what matter and other people's opinions matter less than their safety and our strength as a family unit.
[10:37] You think my opinion is less than soap?
[10:41] I thought we were close.
[10:46] And the third one is one that I struggled to reconcile a bit because it feels...
[10:53] I'm not sure how good I am at...
[10:58] I think success, I haven't examined it enough, so it feels nervous saying it on this because I think success is a dangerous thing to be attached to.
[11:07] But I can't deny that having success in this show and with everyone, depending on how you define success, but just feeling successful about the way this show's gone and the way every day at work feels, that feels like it's given me a bit of inner strength as well.
[11:23] But I feel like all three of those,
[11:26] Sadly, I guess age can't be taken away, but the other two could be taken away and I don't know what I'd do without them.
[11:34] Hmm.
[11:35] It's just like what a great thing to reflect on and to write about and to think about.
[11:40] And it feels a bit underdone.
[11:42] Like I feel like I usually share things on the podcast that I'm more like polished and have thought about a lot more, but I wanted to be a little bit vulnerable in sharing something that's sort of halfway through working it out.
[11:51] But it was so exciting to sit down and start working this stuff out and put those things down because I've never written those three things down before.
[11:58] I feel like a nice thing for people to reflect on themselves, listening to you talk and then thinking about how much do I worry about what people think about me.
[12:05] And almost like a good activity to just to think somewhere or even write down or think to yourself, whose opinions should I be worrying about and maybe whose am I currently worrying about that I maybe should not be, I think is a nice thing to do.
[12:18] I just remember the thing I wrote at the end.
[12:19] The other thing that it's allowed me, those three things have allowed me to give opinion the weight that it deserves, that at the end of the day, it is just opinion.
[12:28] So it's not fact and it's not a fact about my worth as a person.
[12:32] It's still at the end of the day, it's just someone's opinion.
[12:35] Yeah.
[12:35] And I can choose to give it the amount of weight that it deserves when it comes through.
[12:39] Yeah.
[12:40] It's also like good, I find, when I've, because the good thing about it, this, I mean, the good thing about this journal that we made is the questions that are, it's asking you questions that you might not have ever thought to answer about yourself or about your life.
[12:56] And it often kind of gives you an opportunity to rehearse yourself.
[13:04] how you feel about something in your life before you talk to someone else about it.
[13:07] Yeah.
[13:07] Yeah.
[13:07] So if you're, if there's something that comes up in like in your writing and you're like, Oh, that is quite a significant block or quite a significant thing that's happening or that I've been thinking about.
[13:17] And then when you talk to someone close to you, you've at least kind of like done a dry run.
[13:22] a little bit before you talk about it.
[13:24] So kind of like you've done a bit of prep.
[13:26] Not that you need to, but... Well, it's interesting because when you use the word answer there, to me it almost feels like it's... Weirdly, it's a question and not an answer because I don't know if what I've written is an answer, but it's sort of the beginning of like exploring...
[13:37] the question.
[13:38] Yep.
[13:38] Well, that's amazing.
[13:39] Thank you.
[13:40] I wonder if I should go next just because my one is kind of in the same world.
[13:47] So my one is from Michael Klim's episode from last year.
[13:51] And the question in the journal is, what part of you do you feel most defines your identity?
[13:58] How would you cope if that part of you changed or was taken away?
[14:02] Yeah.
[14:03] I mean, I've written a bunch here, but to try and distill it a little bit.
[14:07] When I was away last year with Jam, I had like probably about a two-day really intense, like I think an existential crisis of sorts where I was really panicked down, really anxious, and we were in Greece.
[14:27] We were in this beautiful place.
[14:29] And I could knock it out of my head.
[14:31] And luckily I had jammed there and she was really good in talking me through it and everything.
[14:36] But the thing that was making me anxious was this question's perfect for it because...
[14:44] My identity has always been very, as I've spoken about before in different ways, but it's very, very closely attached to creativity and whatever ability I have to make something great, you know, or different or unique or whatever.
[15:00] And I had this like feeling when I was away or this like fear that if I somehow stopped
[15:14] wasn't doing well or it like dropped off I had this real fear that if I was not doing anything like quote unquote impressive that people wouldn't want to spend time with me oh wow
[15:28] Like that the re I had this, like, and even though I know that that's not, I know in my, when I think about it, I know it's not true that the people who really love me, of course, they'll, they don't need me to be doing anything special, but there is something in me that really believes that if I'm not doing something special, then people will have no interest in spending time with me.
[15:50] Like, yeah.
[15:51] I'm only as good as the thing that I'm doing or I'm, you know, and if I, and if I stopped doing it or people stop caring about what I'm doing, then people be like, not that they'll say out loud, I don't want to be friends with him anymore, but they just won't be interested in me or whatever.
[16:09] I don't know.
[16:09] And, and,
[16:11] Then I started having like these, and this is all to do with like my identity and if it went away, I started having like these really, felt so real, these really intense feelings of like, and fears of young comedians now looking at me and going like, oh God, so sad that that guy's still trying to do what he used to do.
[16:37] Like I was having these real things like- Oh, what an awful, awful feeling.
[16:40] Worrying, just essentially worrying about like that I'm over the hill.
[16:44] I'm like this desperate older guy still trying to make it happen, you know, because it sort of occurred to me, it's like, oh my God, the videos, like if I ever make like videos online or do anything, I'm like, I guess I'm still doing like similar videos that I used to do on Rove, but it's not on Rove now.
[17:03] And I just had this worry that, and this could be true, I don't know, but they had this worry that there are like the 20 to 25-year-old comedians coming up, seeing me do a video, and they're like, God, I cannot believe that sad old guy is still doing that stuff.
[17:19] Yuck.
[17:19] That must feel terrible.
[17:20] It was horrible, horrible, because I really, it really got me for a couple of days.
[17:26] And that's the reason why I was writing about it is because even though I don't necessarily think it's true, of course, I can't prove that it's not true.
[17:36] But it's like this fear or anxiety I have that whether that's relevancy or success or I don't know what that is and how the two connect.
[17:46] But did writing about it help you work your way through it or...
[17:49] Yeah, it did.
[17:50] It did.
[17:50] Because I've written about it before, like when, like last year when I was going through it, I wrote about it and spoke to Jam a lot about it.
[17:58] So the combination of the two was really helpful.
[18:01] But when I saw this question, I'd sort of went back into it again.
[18:05] And yeah, every time I write about anything, it, it definitely helps because it's like getting your thoughts down on the pages.
[18:12] I don't know.
[18:12] I don't know why it does help, but it just does.
[18:15] Yeah, for me, I think maybe it's in that case, but I found that writing, like years ago when I used to have a much more aggressive internal monologue to aggressively negative, not so much on that, but just on everything.
[18:31] And a psychologist told me to write it down and read it and see.
[18:36] And there's something about seeing it outside of yourself written down.
[18:40] You're like, whoa, that's not true.
[18:44] It sort of gives it some – it brings it out into the real world, into some light to be like.
[18:49] Yeah, that's true.
[18:50] I guess that does happen.
[18:51] I look back on it the next day, what I've written, and I'll be like, Jesus, that's intense.
[18:55] But I guess what I'm saying is I still feel it.
[18:57] Like it still feels –
[19:02] like some of it feels something about it feels true to me, even though I don't actually like, I don't think that you guys or anyone that I'm really close to would actually like abandoned me if I stopped making things.
[19:15] But there is a part of me that feels like if I wasn't making things and if I wasn't doing anything interesting and like the question says, if it was taken away or I couldn't do it,
[19:29] I feel like I wouldn't cope well at all because it's so attached to my sense of self-worth, I think.
[19:35] Yeah.
[19:36] We went away last year together with a couple of friends and one of them was Whipper, Michael Whipley, and you were singing, what song were you singing again?
[19:43] This Is It by Danny Minogue.
[19:44] That's it, yeah.
[19:45] You were singing and performing to us all.
[19:47] And as Whipper said to me...
[19:50] The best of Schultz is when he's not on the microphone, when he's not performing.
[19:54] That's when he's at his absolute best.
[19:55] And that's so true.
[19:56] Like you're wonderful on the microphone, but you are so unbelievably funny in person.
[20:00] Oh, that's...
[20:00] So I'd be surprised if people... That is nice.
[20:03] I actually should also say, I actually don't want...
[20:05] I don't want people to hear this and feel like they need to like reach out to me and say...
[20:10] hey man no you are fucking awesome you're so much more you know I don't want that it's really just the purpose of this is just to express it and I don't need people telling me otherwise but that's still don't feel like you can't tell me that stuff Hugh that's actually really cool to hear but I don't want people contacting me it's not the point that's the second bit we do have Aaron Chen on the line now we can check with Aaron if you know I don't want to know I don't want to know okay see you Aaron thanks for thanks for your time
[20:37] Oh, thanks for sharing that.
[20:38] That's really good.
[20:38] I hope it sort of has been a good exercise in writing about it.
[20:42] It is.
[20:42] It's like it is.
[20:43] It's confronting thinking about it again, but it's also, I mean, even like just having written it down and being able to talk to people about it, even that is helpful.
[20:52] So, yeah.
[20:54] And also, Hugh, just I should say thanks for listening to Josh and I, just because you didn't at the start of the episode.
[21:00] So it's good that you tuned in.
[21:01] That was the right time to listen.
[21:02] That was.
[21:03] Yeah.
[21:05] Okay.
[21:06] So the question I'm going to go with is inspired by Rana Hussain and her episode.
[21:11] And the question is, think of a moment when you went out of your way to make someone feel like they belonged.
[21:15] How did that experience impact you?
[21:17] And this actually is a question I've been thinking about recently because I've been chatting to mum about this for reasons that will become apparent in a moment.
[21:27] When I was in grade six, I'm in 1992.
[21:30] It was my last day of primary school and we're sitting in a circle on the ground.
[21:35] Everyone had to pick a question out of this hat.
[21:37] And the question was designed to get you to talk about someone else in the class.
[21:42] And the questions were things like, who in this room is most likely to become a famous artist?
[21:47] Or who in this room is going to become a successful musician?
[21:50] Yeah.
[21:50] And the question I drew out of the hat was who in this room is most likely to represent Australia in an Olympic sport?
[21:57] And we had some really sporty kids in the class, a guy called Sam, another guy called Kare, a guy called Andrew.
[22:03] We were really sporty kids.
[22:05] But I remember looking around at everyone and there was a boy in our class called Michael Baird.
[22:09] And Michael was a boy with Down syndrome and he's a boy who loved his sport so much, basketball, football, cricket, swimming.
[22:18] And I looked at him and thought, oh, he would, this would mean, I mean, I didn't have the awareness that I have now.
[22:23] I wasn't thinking this will make him feel like he belongs.
[22:27] But I remember thinking, oh, this will make him feel really good.
[22:30] Like he would love this.
[22:31] This will mean so much to him.
[22:33] And so I didn't go with the very sporty boys.
[22:36] I went with Michael and I said, I truly believe Michael will be the most likely person here to represent Australian Olympic sport.
[22:45] I'm going to be an Olympic swimmer.
[22:47] And I remember the look on his face.
[22:50] It was one of the biggest smiles I've ever seen.
[22:52] And he gave me a very big hug.
[22:55] It was a really beautiful moment.
[22:56] Mm-hmm.
[22:58] Michael Bev was a really special kid.
[22:59] He was in my class since, well, we started in prep together at our primary school.
[23:05] So we'd known each other for seven years.
[23:06] And mum, I remember mum really encouraged the friendship between Michael and myself.
[23:12] I'd go over to his house a lot.
[23:13] I have wonderful memories of...
[23:15] standing outside the primary school waiting for his mum to pick us up.
[23:17] His mum's name was Judy Baird.
[23:19] And he would always say, when she was late, he would say, where's my Judy Baird?
[23:24] I have so many fond memories of my time with Michael.
[23:29] And I tell this story because in October of last year, my phone rang, it was mum, and she was calling to say that Michael had actually died.
[23:40] He'd passed away.
[23:42] And he's someone that – so the final – the second part of that question is what the impact it's had on you.
[23:47] because of that moment that we had, like that one moment in the last day of grade six, it just pops into my mind a lot.
[23:54] I have sort of found myself thinking about Michael a lot, wondering how he's going and always thinking I need to reconnect.
[24:01] I really need to reconnect with Michael.
[24:03] I'd love to see him.
[24:04] I'd love to see how he's going.
[24:06] And I just never got around to it.
[24:10] Yet I thought about him so often and kept thinking I really need to do it.
[24:14] And when mum called, she said, here are the details of the funeral.
[24:17] Do you think you'll go?
[24:18] And I thought, oh, I feel a bit silly going.
[24:19] I haven't seen him since 1992.
[24:22] It's probably a bit strange.
[24:23] I mean, his family, it's probably, it might be a small funeral and it might look a bit strange that I turn up to a small funeral.
[24:29] I don't know.
[24:30] And on the day, I still wasn't sure.
[24:31] And I thought, oh, I think it'd be better to go and have it be weird because I'm there than feel bad about not going.
[24:38] Anyway, it was a big funeral and I shouldn't have been surprised because he was such a lovable person.
[24:43] And I was sitting there and the funeral came to a conclusion and then people were going to the next room for like afternoon tea.
[24:51] And I thought, I'll go home.
[24:52] I thought, no, no, no, I'll just pop in very quickly and I will say hi to his mum.
[24:55] And I was thinking she'll have no idea who I am.
[24:58] And she'd kept it together very well throughout the funeral.
[25:01] Mm-hmm.
[25:02] And I walked in and she was standing right there saying hello to people.
[25:05] She saw me and she just burst into tears and gave me the biggest hug.
[25:11] We hugged for so long that she held onto my arm and said, I find it very hard to know what to say.
[25:16] But she just kept saying, but I love your mum.
[25:19] I really love your mum so much.
[25:21] Then Michael's brother and sister saw me and I went over to them and I was chatting to them.
[25:27] And his sister said, I was cleaning out his room the other day and I found a photo of you in his bedside table.
[25:32] And she said he always spoke about my friend Hugh.
[25:34] To this day he still spoke about my friend Hugh.
[25:37] And it was the most moving afternoon.
[25:41] There was a lot of tears in the car on the way home.
[25:43] A lot of regret about not reconnecting.
[25:46] Mm-hmm.
[25:47] with Michael.
[25:49] And so the second part of the question is the impact it's had on you.
[25:53] I think when you make an effort to make people feel like they belong, it is very connecting.
[26:00] And I say that being fully aware that we never actually saw each other again after that moment.
[26:05] But I knew deep down I needed to go to his funeral and find out he had a picture of me at his bedside table was just extraordinary.
[26:15] And I think it was because moments like that, that connected us.
[26:18] So I think...
[26:22] just the most beautiful person you'd ever want to meet.
[26:24] And I feel so sad that I never reconnected with him.
[26:27] But hearing the stories at the funeral, he had many, many, many wonderful connections with so many people in his life.
[26:34] So, yeah, that's what I wrote about for, I wrote about Michael for that answer.
[26:39] I think the interest, like I know you, obviously you've got many regrets that you didn't catch up with Michael over the years.
[26:47] But I think that story, for me, the really important part of that is that you, we've like got no idea the impact that, how big the impact of someone doing something to make us feel included can have.
[27:00] Like I can think of that.
[27:03] Tom, I might have told this story on the podcast before, but Tom Evans, so friend of ours and husband of Matty from the Brazilian Project, when I was in like year nine and he was in year, would have been in like year 11 or 12, he was like this sort of sports captain of the school.
[27:17] Him and his mates were playing cricket at their house and he called me and said, do you want to come around and play backyard cricket?
[27:23] And I reckon that phone call changed my life.
[27:27] Like it was the first time I was like, oh, someone actually, someone who I respect who's older, the first time I actually thought having gone to school with the same school as you and Georgia, who were such big personalities and everyone loved them.
[27:43] It's the first time I actually thought, oh, people actually might like me for me and not just because I'm the sibling of.
[27:49] And I'm sure it was a very small thing for him to do, but it will stick with me forever.
[27:56] And I think it's such a – to feel like you're included and people want you there, I don't think there's much bigger gestures in the world.
[28:06] Yeah, it's just being – feeling sane.
[28:09] Feeling sane and, yeah, welcomed and –
[28:12] Yeah.
[28:13] So I know that they're very different stories, but I think it's, to me, it just speaks to the fact how we never forget those things.
[28:19] Yeah.
[28:20] I find that like that actually happens quite a lot.
[28:22] And this is, you know, this is in many ways similar to the vulnerability house cards.
[28:28] that are also available.
[28:31] But this is designed to be something which is just for you.
[28:34] You know, it's a personal thing that you write and you don't have to share it with anyone else, but you can and you can talk about it with once you've written it.
[28:41] And then what it often does is it does spark memories or stories from the person that you tell and it can become like this share sesh.
[28:51] like we're having.
[28:54] And it's so great.
[28:55] It's so great.
[28:56] Can I add one nice little thing at the end?
[29:00] I was right.
[29:00] Michael did go on and represent Australia as a swimmer.
[29:02] Did he really?
[29:03] Yeah.
[29:04] Oh, cool.
[29:05] Multiple times, yeah.
[29:06] That's unreal.
[29:07] That is awesome.
[29:08] Yeah, it was cool.
[29:09] How did you know that?
[29:10] It was just we all knew when he was representing Australia it was like a thing like Michael Baird from schools.
[29:15] Oh, do you mean how did you predict that?
[29:17] How did you know when you were a kid?
[29:21] Could you possibly get the information that he was representing Australia?
[29:25] No.
[29:25] I meant how did you know when you were a kid that he would go on?
[29:29] I don't think I was doing it because I thought this is the right answer.
[29:32] I thought this will make him so happy.
[29:33] Yes.
[29:34] Because I knew he loved his sport and he always participated in sport.
[29:36] He loved swimming, loved basketball.
[29:38] Yeah.
[29:39] Can you take responsibility for the fact?
[29:41] I absolutely cannot.
[29:44] Not in the smallest part.
[29:45] Um...
[29:46] Well, that was great.
[29:48] I loved that.
[29:50] So we would love to see you at Readings for the reverse book signing.
[29:53] Yes.
[29:55] 31st of Jan at Readings Emporium in Melbourne in the city.
[29:58] Come down after work.
[29:59] Arrive at about 5.30 and things will kick off at 6 o'clock, 6pm.
[30:04] So if you want to come to the event, there are two links in the show notes.
[30:07] One to get tickets to the event when you'll get a book as well.
[30:10] And the other link will just take you to our website, theimperfects.com.au, where you can buy a book.
[30:14] That's for anyone not coming to the event.
[30:16] So if you're coming, you'll pick your book up at the event.
[30:19] And if you're not coming to the event and just buying a book, we'll send those out to you.
[30:23] Yes.
[30:23] The other thing to mention is I think our mailing list, because that kind of links into this in that.
[30:28] Oh, yeah.
[30:29] We've started a mailing list called the Vulnerability Mail.
[30:32] Yeah, because you didn't have enough puns.
[30:35] It's like you keep asking, give us more puns.
[30:38] We're sorry about that.
[30:39] Yeah.
[30:39] It's like we're overloading you with puns.
[30:41] And it's like, well, here's another one.
[30:43] Well, luckily it's more than just a pun.
[30:46] There is some stuff in the email.
[30:48] There is, yeah.
[30:49] And importantly, the link to this is that in the newsletter, we'll send you a new question every week that is inspired by that week's episode, which will help you reflect on your own imperfect life.
[30:58] Yeah.
[31:00] Some journaling in your vulnerability email.
[31:02] Yeah.
[31:02] If anything, it distracts from the pun, unfortunately, but it's still really, really helpful.
[31:06] We can take it out.
[31:07] No, I think it's actually the reason why we send it.
[31:09] Take the pun out.
[31:10] No, no, no.
[31:11] Keep the pun and keep the journaling question.
[31:14] Okay, great.
[31:15] Yeah, good meeting.
[31:16] You could get a cup of tea like we do and you could journal with tea in hand.
[31:23] Hence the T bit in the vulnerability mail.
[31:25] Cool.
[31:25] Makes sense.
[31:26] Yeah.
[31:27] And then email because it's on email.
[31:30] We've explained the pun.
[31:31] Yeah.
[31:31] A bit of behind the scenes for you.
[31:33] I mean, this newsletter, yes, it's that.
[31:36] It's a vulnerable question, which will be from the episode that has just come out.
[31:40] But we kind of like to think of this as like you're kind of like our pen pals.
[31:43] We're putting a lot of effort into making this quite a personal.
[31:47] It's quite a personal question.
[31:48] letter from us to you.
[31:50] Yes.
[31:50] The team helped write the questions.
[31:52] That's right.
[31:52] It's written by humans for once.
[31:55] Yeah, for once.
[31:56] God.
[31:58] Absolutely no offence to AI if you're listening.
[31:59] We think you're great.
[32:00] Oh, they're listening.
[32:01] You're great.
[32:01] You're wonderful.
[32:02] Sorry about that.
[32:03] And to allude to Hugh's pen pal thing, we would love to hear your reflections and your responses and your journaling if you feel comfortable sending them to us.
[32:11] You can go to the website.
[32:12] There's a form there you can fill out and send back any journaling you've done.
[32:17] Yeah, just to put a button on that AI thing.
[32:19] Actually, love your work.
[32:21] Awesome, awesome job.
[32:22] Just doing some really cool stuff.
[32:24] Yeah, huge respect.
[32:26] Keep it up.
[32:27] Well, that was, I really enjoyed announcement one.
[32:31] Yeah.
[32:31] Two and three still to come.
[32:32] I hope they're as fulfilling as that.
[32:35] You wait.
[32:36] You wait, mate.
[32:38] I might even listen to them.
[32:39] Yeah, well, it'd be great.
[32:40] Yeah, that'd be really good to get you engaged in something here.
[32:45] Thanks, guys.
[32:45] See ya.
[32:46] Bye.

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