# Stephen Curry - I Dug a Hole… and Found Myself

An episode of [The Imperfects](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1476501557), 23 Mar 2025, 1 h 09 min.

Audio: https://enrichment.soundstack.com/4vjqq8/episode.flightcast.com/plb6xgfntqo3g1mz9s89kzau.mp3

Get excited, it’s finally Steve Curry* day. Actor, comedian, and expert hole digger (you bet we snuck this in here), Steve joins us to share his personal and professional epiphany: a ‘collaboration realisation’ his lightbulb moment about teamwork, success, and the power of vulnerability. In our Vulnerabilitea House, Steve answers the questions ‘When was a time you genuinely needed help? Were you able to ask for it?’, and discusses the joy of working in a team where success is a joint effort. This is such a joyful episode, Steve, we are definitely friends for life (can you hook us up with Helen too?) *not the basket baller If you’d like to watch this full episode on YouTube, follow this link: https://bit.ly/4iv72IO 🦁 Things to check out • Helen Carmichael - https://bit.ly/4hv90YU

## Transcript

[0:00] It was this moment in my life where I suddenly went, everyone was right.
[0:05] If I can't just, just where there's no pressure, where there's one cameraman, there's one boomy, there's one director and my brother, that's it.
[0:15] I just had this horrible cataclysmic kind of crisis of faith in myself.
[0:24] The Imperfects invites you into a very safe place.
[0:31] A place where we share without judgment and drink heaps of vulnerability.
[0:42] Grab yourself a cup.
[0:45] This is The Vulnerability House.
[0:55] This is the first episode we've ever done where I feel like it would have been more appropriate for the guest to open the episode.
[1:03] Like, right down the barrel.
[1:04] I know where you're going.
[1:08] Right down the camera.
[1:14] My name is Stephen Curry and this is my story.
[1:19] Yes.
[1:19] Thank you.
[1:20] Not the basketballer.
[1:21] I should actually say not the basketballer.
[1:23] Yeah.
[1:24] Anyone who's tuned in and gone like, what the fuck?
[1:27] You got the chef?
[1:28] That's incredible.
[1:30] I did not know his accent would be so, how do you say, boganic.
[1:35] Yeah, no, we've got the better Steph Curry.
[1:39] The original, I might just say.
[1:40] The original, yes.
[1:41] Ten years older.
[1:42] God, Steve, it is so exciting having you here.
[1:46] I am absolutely pumped to be here.
[1:49] Thank you, guys, for having me.
[1:50] It is very exciting.
[1:52] I have some advice for you to start off with.
[1:54] We had a lovely chat on the phone yesterday.
[1:56] It was a...
[1:57] Rollicking good time, I thought, on the phone yesterday.
[1:59] Same.
[2:00] Yeah.
[2:01] Well, where I live, it often drops out.
[2:03] So it didn't drop out once, which is actually a win for me.
[2:06] But the conversation was a great conversation.
[2:09] Well, you mentioned that you listen to The Imperfects when you're tending to your garden.
[2:12] Yes.
[2:13] And you said especially the hydrangeas.
[2:16] And my mum loves her, our mum loves her hydrangeas.
[2:19] So I asked her.
[2:20] for advice, you might be all over this, but she said to you that dappled light is best and where it gets only morning sun.
[2:27] You knew that?
[2:27] Yeah.
[2:28] It's like children.
[2:28] That's how they grow too.
[2:30] Dappled light, morning sun, and then keep them in the shade for the rest of the day.
[2:35] And hydrated.
[2:37] No, I was telling you, Hugh, yesterday that my wife and I literally just yesterday before I spoke to you had talked about how much we love this podcast goes perfectly with gardening.
[2:48] We love it.
[2:49] There is something, I don't know, there's something about it.
[2:52] Nadzie took the boys away to Scotland for about a month last year to go and see the family and I was basically just in gardening mode and I listened to, I reckon about,
[3:01] Probably 20 or 30 episodes of the show whilst I was just tending, tending to the.
[3:08] It's so amazing.
[3:09] I mean, it tickles me pink to know that you listened to it.
[3:12] It's so cool.
[3:13] It all died, but you know, I felt nourished.
[3:16] It doesn't make me a better gardener.
[3:20] It's just, it's a good thing to listen to whilst I'm, whilst I'm.
[3:23] One of the most surprised moments I'd say of my life is when Steve, you showed me the inside of your shed.
[3:31] Because it's like, I don't know what my perception of you was before that, but it wasn't, it didn't align with how impressive the gear in your shed was.
[3:41] I did not expect it.
[3:42] Yeah.
[3:43] Every tool you can imagine.
[3:45] Yeah.
[3:46] And I'm a bit obsessive about where it all goes.
[3:48] It looks immaculate.
[3:50] I've got outlines on the walls.
[3:51] Wow.
[3:52] So I know when things are missing.
[3:54] and I know what's missing because of my outlines that are on the walls.
[3:58] And my wife and I have very robust discussions about where the hammer's gone.
[4:05] It goes a lot.
[4:06] It disappears a lot.
[4:06] Yeah.
[4:07] Yeah.
[4:08] Is there a chance that your neighbour has walked past maybe if you were in the garden all the time and you were by chance digging a hole?
[4:14] Oh, my God.
[4:16] And if so...
[4:18] How excited were they?
[4:19] Yeah.
[4:20] That's two here.
[4:21] That's two.
[4:22] We've started off pretty – I was on the beach with my youngest son, Beau, in January, and he has never seen the castle.
[4:29] And apologies to anyone who's listening to this who hasn't seen the castle, but that was a castle reference film that I did 29 years ago.
[4:37] As was the opening of the episode.
[4:39] Yeah, sorry, as was the opening of the episode.
[4:41] But my son, Beau, who's 10, hasn't seen the film, and we were building a sandcastle and we were doing a moat around it, and he went, Dad.
[4:48] I went, yeah, he goes, I dug a hole.
[4:52] A film that he hasn't seen.
[4:54] And the only reason he knows this line is because of all the people who've come up to us in the street while he's been with me.
[5:00] And then I started laughing.
[5:02] I went, oh, that's actually good, man.
[5:03] He goes, no, but, Dad, it's filling with water, which is another line from the film.
[5:09] So no matter how hard you try and punk me on that film, you can't punk me harder than my 10-year-old on the beach in January.
[5:16] Okay, so who is Steve Curry?
[5:19] No.
[5:19] Well, I've been wondering myself here.
[5:22] Yeah, we might have already mentioned a few of the things in the bio, Hugh.
[5:25] My first, I thought, well, Stephen Curry's here.
[5:28] I should say something funny to start.
[5:30] I've written a joke.
[5:30] You've already done it.
[5:31] But Stephen Curry's an American professional basketball player.
[5:34] Star with your thunder on that one.
[5:36] Sorry.
[5:36] That's awkward, isn't it?
[5:39] I'll grab my coat.
[5:41] You did it far better than I was going to do it.
[5:42] So Stephen Curry is an Australian actor and comedian, best known for his portrayal of Dale Kerrigan in the 1997 cult classic, The Castle.
[5:51] Steve grew up in Melbourne, in Baldwin.
[5:54] Really?
[5:54] Right near the Baldwin cinema.
[5:56] No way.
[5:57] Yeah.
[5:57] What?
[5:57] It was Street?
[5:58] Pardon?
[5:59] What was the Street?
[5:59] Gordon Street.
[6:00] Gordon Street.
[6:00] Gordon Street.
[6:01] Yeah.
[6:01] That's one of the big ones.
[6:03] If you don't know Gordon Street, you don't know Baldwin.
[6:09] I don't know if I want to For years we thought we were in Deep Dean but we found out many years later that we didn't What a reveal It's huge What was your street?
[6:19] Wynn Malloy I know Wynn Malloy This is a great conversation that's going to get cut out of the podcast I love this No no guys, this is going to help so many people Actually let's rank the streets A corner of Will Street which is up there as well Will's is important If you want to get to Deep Dean Primary Yeah yeah
[6:36] You've got to have all your affairs in order.
[6:39] And people say the show's gotten looser.
[6:41] I don't agree.
[6:42] I think it's still tight as ever.
[6:44] Youngest of five siblings.
[6:45] That's interesting.
[6:46] After a few minor roles in adverts, Steve was cast as Dale Kerrigan in The Castle.
[6:51] This casting launched a steady and successful career as Steve became a series regular on The Secret Life of Us and The Time of Our Lives, as well as starring in two of Australia's biggest ever films, The Nugget and Takeaway.
[7:03] In 2007, Steve played Graham Kennedy.
[7:05] Congratulations on that, by the way.
[7:07] Thank you.
[7:07] Very good.
[7:09] In The King, for which he has won an Actor Award for Best Lead Actor.
[7:12] Steve has two boys with his wife, Nadine.
[7:15] Yes.
[7:15] In Scotland, it's Nadine.
[7:18] N-A-A-D-E-I-N.
[7:19] I don't know how to pronounce it in Australian.
[7:21] What do you prefer?
[7:21] Nadzie.
[7:22] That's cool.
[7:23] Yeah, she doesn't.
[7:24] No, she likes it.
[7:25] She's okay.
[7:25] Her father doesn't like that, but that's what everyone calls her is.
[7:28] Nadzie.
[7:28] Nadzie.
[7:29] What do you call her, right?
[7:30] Nadzie.
[7:31] Nadzie.
[7:32] Right.
[7:32] And you'll be welcome to as well.
[7:33] Oh, thank you.
[7:34] She's a big fan of both of your work, so not so much of Ryan's, but, um, No, Nedzie was actually one very, very early supporter of the podcast.
[7:43] Oh, wow.
[7:43] Indeed.
[7:44] She was very, very, um, lovely about it in the earlier days.
[7:48] How did you meet Nedzie?
[7:49] At Revolver Nightclub.
[7:51] Wow.
[7:51] True story.
[7:52] 10am on a Sunday.
[7:54] True story.
[7:55] In the year 2000.
[7:57] Unbelievable.
[7:57] Yeah.
[7:58] We're all good relationships start.
[8:01] Just couch surfing.
[8:03] Yeah, so anyone has a go at revs or whatever you want to call it, revolting, we used to call it.
[8:09] It's where love can blossom.
[8:11] Unbelievable.
[8:12] Our parents have been to Revolver.
[8:13] What?
[8:14] What?
[8:14] I beg your pardon?
[8:15] Yeah.
[8:16] What was the context?
[8:17] You wash your mouth out.
[8:19] In 2008.
[8:20] I don't know if I... Over there.
[8:22] Do you remember?
[8:24] That was your parents.
[8:26] Hang on, your mum's name's Nadzie.
[8:32] Oh, God.
[8:33] No, I was in a band and they used to have bands that play in that front room.
[8:37] Yeah.
[8:37] I don't know if that's still.
[8:38] Yeah.
[8:39] And we played a gig on a Thursday or something on it, like eight o'clock at night.
[8:43] And mum and dad came and watched the gig.
[8:44] But I couldn't believe my parents were in Revolver.
[8:47] Really blew my mind.
[8:47] Did they kick on?
[8:49] Yeah.
[8:49] We lost them for a few days.
[8:51] Yeah.
[8:54] They met some guy and yeah.
[8:56] Yeah.
[8:56] It'll happen.
[8:57] Should we pull a card?
[8:58] Yeah, let's.
[8:58] Let's go.
[8:59] So, Steve, I think you've heard this before.
[9:02] For those who haven't heard the Vulnerability House before, we've got a deck of cards on the table.
[9:06] Yep.
[9:07] They're our Vulnerability House, Vulnerability House cards, which are available on the website.
[9:12] Yeah.
[9:12] Oh, God.
[9:12] Theimperfects.com.
[9:13] That are you?
[9:14] Perfect.
[9:14] Yep.
[9:14] Yep.
[9:15] So you can get them, but on each card is a different question, which invokes some, maybe a memory or some form of vulnerability from you, hopefully, Steve.
[9:25] Okay.
[9:26] And if you, you can just pick, usually people just pick the top three.
[9:29] Okay.
[9:30] If any of those three, read them out.
[9:32] And if any of those three resonate with you, then we'll go with that one.
[9:36] All right.
[9:36] So go just pull the three out now.
[9:38] Pull the top three.
[9:39] All right.
[9:40] All right.
[9:42] What fear would you like to be free of?
[9:45] Oh, that's a good one.
[9:47] That's a good one.
[9:47] Hang on, I'd better go through the other one.
[9:49] Who have you been envious of?
[9:52] Well, no one.
[9:53] Wow.
[9:55] So vulnerable.
[9:57] That's not the point of this show, is it?
[9:59] If you could make the answers a little bit longer as well.
[10:01] Yeah, that's what the point of the show is.
[10:03] Okay.
[10:04] And the third one, when was a time you genuinely needed help?
[10:09] Were you able to ask for it?
[10:12] That's the one.
[10:13] That's the one.
[10:15] That's the one.
[10:16] Straight up.
[10:17] I love that.
[10:17] Just like when you met Nadzie on the couch, you just knew straight away.
[10:20] She's the one.
[10:21] She's the one.
[10:22] She didn't think so.
[10:22] It took quite a while to convince her of that.
[10:27] But no, that's really good.
[10:29] I have been envious of many people, by the way, over the years.
[10:32] Yes.
[10:33] When was a time you genuinely needed help and were you able to ask for it?
[10:37] This is interesting because I would say I've known you for a little while, Steve.
[10:42] My assumption, and we should never assume, makes an ass out of you and me, but my assumption is that your mental health is pretty good.
[10:54] And my perception of you is that you wouldn't need help that much.
[10:58] You're pretty self-sufficient.
[11:00] I've been very lucky in my life.
[11:01] I've been raised by a very loving family and had very loyal and reliable and trustworthy friends.
[11:10] And as a result of that, and probably part of kind of, I don't know, my just natural makeup.
[11:14] Yes, I'm more often, I am fairly easygoing and fairly lacking in anxiety generally.
[11:28] Yeah.
[11:28] Lucky duck.
[11:29] Well, yes, and that's why people are going, well, why have you got him on?
[11:32] This is not.
[11:33] This is not.
[11:34] No, but the – Well, this is why we have the vulnerability house because even if someone – generally speaking, we find that everyone's had something that's happened in their life or has dealt with something.
[11:44] So even if it's been relatively smooth sailing, there's usually something to talk about.
[11:48] Yeah.
[11:49] All right.
[11:50] So I'm just going to launch into one because you've piqued my interest in myself.
[11:55] Sorry.
[11:58] So, all right, okay.
[11:59] So as you mentioned, Hugh, I, you know, had been doing extra work and little bits and pieces for probably about seven years up until the point that the castle fell in my lap.
[12:13] And I had just kind of, I just always wanted to do it.
[12:17] Like there was just never a question and maybe...
[12:21] This is acting.
[12:22] This is acting.
[12:23] So I've never, I've sort of never...
[12:27] imagine doing anything else.
[12:29] And I'm fairly simple in my thought processes.
[12:33] I'm not a, I'm not a hugely deep thinker about things.
[12:36] So I never thought about the, I had a lot of teachers and my parents and, and friends very kindly suggest that I might get something to fall back on.
[12:45] And I didn't, I didn't cause I was this kid going, no, no, I'll just be a successful film television actor.
[12:53] kind of thing.
[12:54] And that's, on paper, that's a terrible idea.
[12:56] It's a terrible idea because the odds of it panning out that way are minuscule at best.
[13:04] And so anyway, the castle came along and it was a, I don't know.
[13:10] For me, it was like, I was working with my heroes and in Working Dog, who I'd grown up admiring and loving their comedy.
[13:18] And all of a sudden I'm sitting around a table.
[13:20] And Working Dog being like Rob Sitch, Santo Cholaro, Tom Gleisner, Jane Kennedy.
[13:25] So there I am sitting around this table with them and, you know, thinking this is pretty cool.
[13:30] And how old are you?
[13:31] 20.
[13:31] Yeah.
[13:32] I was 20.
[13:32] Yeah.
[13:33] And I, you know, I had a fairly rotten head on me and I think that's why I got the role.
[13:38] And which is also why a lot of the people in my life had said, get some and fall back on.
[13:42] Because this, this, and they'd always do a circle around my face.
[13:45] This is not, I don't, I don't see it.
[13:48] You know, I don't see leading man.
[13:51] Anyway, so...
[13:53] I do the film and the film is very successful in terms of Australian content.
[13:58] It, it, it, a lot of people saw it and a lot of people still to this day love that film and, and feel, um, a part of that film and feel connected to that film because of the characters are very recognisable Australian characters.
[14:13] So that was brilliant.
[14:14] So what that did, that film opened up a whole new world to me in terms of I didn't have to work at a bakery anymore.
[14:22] Sorry to do this, but which bakery?
[14:24] It was Baker Delighton Hawthorne.
[14:25] I don't know.
[14:27] Well, I got sacked from that.
[14:28] And so then I was working in a video store.
[14:30] But basically just jobs that you have to do because you want to prove to all these people who told you it wasn't going to happen that it's going to happen.
[14:36] You have to feed yourself while you're not earning any money.
[14:40] So the castle opened up this world to me where I was doing lots of jobs and I was in lots of films and I was in lots of TV shows and it was brilliant.
[14:52] And I loved it because it's my hobby.
[14:53] It's my, as I said, it's the only thing I've ever wanted to do.
[14:56] Yeah.
[14:57] So then in 2005, I was cast in The King, in the Graham Kennedy piece that you mentioned.
[15:06] Which I remember being, it was like significant news.
[15:09] Like very rarely does the casting of a show or a film make the news.
[15:16] But because Graham Kennedy is such an icon and such an Australian TV legend, he was kind of like Australia's version of Jimmy Fallon, Jimmy Kimmel, and every Tonight Show host rolled into one and everyone knew who he was.
[15:32] Everyone loved Graham Kennedy.
[15:33] He was, yeah, like...
[15:35] He was the king.
[15:36] He was the king.
[15:36] Yeah, he was, the king of television.
[15:38] Before I even got to that point, I'd been cast in it and it hadn't been announced.
[15:43] We had to go and do it.
[15:44] We were about four months out from the shooting of the thing and I was just thrilled.
[15:49] And Matt Savile, who directed it, I'd worked with on Secret Life.
[15:53] Jason Stevens, who was also part of Working Dog, was producing it and he was the one who suggested me in the first place.
[15:58] And I was chuffed and honored.
[16:01] Again, Graham Kennedy, my mum introduced me to him when I was very young and I was a massive fan of everything that he'd done.
[16:09] So this older actor that I was working with at the time, I told him that I'd been cast in it and he said something very innocuous to me, which was kind of said lovingly but I took way more seriously than I would take most things, which was, shit, you wouldn't want to stuff that up.
[16:27] and it's fine.
[16:29] I say that stuff, I would say that stuff jokingly to you as my friend.
[16:33] Yeah.
[16:33] You know what I mean?
[16:34] Yeah.
[16:34] Because I know you're not going to stuff it up.
[16:36] You know, I might even say.
[16:37] But I also would sort of maybe I would just, I would know that you're joking.
[16:41] A hundred percent.
[16:41] Yeah.
[16:41] And I knew he was joking.
[16:43] Yeah.
[16:43] But on the face of it then I kind of went, oh, right, okay.
[16:47] Right.
[16:48] But there's truth to it.
[16:48] Okay, shit.
[16:49] That's Graham Kennedy.
[16:50] This is Graham Kennedy.
[16:52] This is Australia's first superstar.
[16:55] Yeah.
[16:56] And I'm now playing him.
[16:58] And if I do stuff it up, everyone's going to see it.
[17:00] And you think it's the whole world who's going to see it.
[17:03] And the whole world's not going to see it.
[17:04] But in your head, the whole world's going to see you.
[17:08] maybe not being as good as you'd hoped you were at the only thing that you can do.
[17:13] Yeah.
[17:13] And it's the pressure of that.
[17:17] It's like it's almost like I don't think you even need to be an actor to know that pressure.
[17:20] It's like any sort of public speaking.
[17:21] Yeah.
[17:22] It's like you have to do your speech at school or whatever it is.
[17:26] It's like it feels like the weight of the world.
[17:28] Yeah.
[17:28] Yeah.
[17:28] You kind of, I think in a way you're always sort of wondering when you're going to get uncovered as a fraud anyway in our game because you pretend to be other people for a job.
[17:38] you're a fraud.
[17:39] Yeah.
[17:39] You know what I mean?
[17:39] In the nicest way possible.
[17:40] Yeah, I'm pretending to be an actor.
[17:42] Yeah, you are, and you're doing a great job of it for now.
[17:46] So anyway, so we had to do this camera test thing for it just to get the face right, to get the make-up right.
[17:53] So Graham Kennedy had this, he was famously called Oyster Eyes because he had these kind of bags under his eyes and they wanted to kind of get that right.
[18:01] So we did this.
[18:03] Camera test.
[18:04] And on the way in, the words of this older actor who'd said this thing to me were ringing in my ears and I got the fear.
[18:11] And I don't get the fear very often.
[18:13] I get nerves.
[18:13] I love nerves.
[18:15] And I tell my kids this all the time.
[18:17] Nerves are awesome because they...
[18:19] because they, it's free energy.
[18:21] That's what I see nerves as is free energy.
[18:24] Yeah.
[18:25] And anyway, I went in and I did this, I did this thing and my brother Bernie was there acting opposite me and Matt Savile was there directing it.
[18:33] It was very low key.
[18:34] We were in at Channel 9, the old Channel 9 studios.
[18:38] I got into the makeup chair and they put these eyes on me and they were wrong.
[18:43] They were just wrong.
[18:44] And they felt wrong and they looked wrong.
[18:46] It looked like a comedy sketch.
[18:48] And I've done a lot of comedy sketches up to that point where I know what a comedy sketch look is.
[18:53] You meant to instantly look at the person and start laughing.
[18:56] You've got to be hit the ground running, but this is a drama.
[18:58] This is a drama.
[18:59] This is a film about the side of a character that we've never seen.
[19:03] We've seen the trip down memory lane stuff with, with, you know, with Bert and Graham and with all, all that stuff we know.
[19:10] What this film was about was the making of the man.
[19:14] And he was a very tortured man.
[19:16] So anyway, I look at myself in the mirror.
[19:19] and went, this is wrong, this is bad, this is bad, and got the major fear.
[19:25] We went through the day, we shot these three scenes, and I was, and I'm not being self-deprecating here, I was terrible.
[19:31] I was terrible.
[19:33] And the harder I tried to... What was it that made you so sure that it was terrible?
[19:39] The fear just became crippling, and it was something that I hadn't had before because I do have a pretty simple brain.
[19:46] I don't overthink stuff.
[19:48] But the fear on that day became crippling and I was, I couldn't, I couldn't breathe properly.
[19:54] I couldn't, I couldn't talk through my diaphragm.
[19:57] I couldn't do all the things that I had learned how to do in terms of how to play a character.
[20:02] And I didn't believe it in my own head.
[20:04] It was, it was shit.
[20:07] How do you experience value like that before as an actor?
[20:11] Um, I'd been terrible in things before, but not known.
[20:15] Yeah.
[20:15] Okay.
[20:15] You know what I mean?
[20:16] Like I'd seen things back and gone, Oh God, I've got a lot to learn or whatever.
[20:19] Cause I didn't train or anything.
[20:20] I just did it on the job.
[20:21] But, but that was the first time where I'd ever actually just gone, you can't do what the only thing that you're meant to be able to do.
[20:29] Like it was horrible, horrible day.
[20:32] And at the end of it, Matt Savile, the director, he looked at me and he said, how did you think that went?
[20:38] And I just kind of went.
[20:40] I didn't have anything to say.
[20:42] And he said, he knew it.
[20:43] We all knew it.
[20:45] And my brother knew it.
[20:47] And he just said, you know what?
[20:49] No one's going to see that.
[20:50] I'm not even going to show the network that.
[20:52] I'm not going to show TV1 that.
[20:54] I'm not going to show anyone who's put any money or has any interest in this.
[20:57] I'm not going to show them.
[20:58] We'll lose our funding.
[20:59] Yeah.
[21:01] And there's nothing that people who are funding a large-scale production want to hear more than, you're not allowed to see the thing you've paid for.
[21:07] They love it, right?
[21:10] So anyway, true to his word, he didn't show anyone.
[21:12] But as a result of him holding firm on his promise to me, the network, well, well,
[21:20] The powers that be in this particular instance, I was sacked.
[21:26] They sacked me.
[21:28] Really?
[21:28] Yeah.
[21:29] Yeah.
[21:29] Yeah.
[21:29] I was sacked.
[21:31] And it was horrible.
[21:32] And I just kind of, Natsy was amazing through it because it was this moment in my life where I suddenly went, everyone was right.
[21:40] And...
[21:42] And whilst I can pull funny faces and play dipshits in things that are just made up, if I can't just, just where there's no pressure, where there's one cameraman, there's one boomy, there's one director and my brother, that's it.
[21:58] If I can't do it in front of them, I just had this horrible cataclysmic kind of crisis of faith in myself.
[22:09] What an awful feeling.
[22:10] It was, it was, I had it coming actually.
[22:14] I had it coming because it's kind of, you've got to, I think you've got to try and be as aware as you can of, you know, I know my shortcomings.
[22:22] You know what I mean?
[22:23] I know I'm not a director.
[22:25] I don't have the kind of the visual side of things, but I think it's worth being really aware of what you can and can't do and what you need to work harder on.
[22:33] Right.
[22:35] I hadn't worked hard enough to get to that point to play that guy.
[22:38] So anyway.
[22:39] And did you know that going into it, but you just sort of weren't admitting it to yourself?
[22:42] Yes.
[22:43] So they put it out to audition and they auditioned a few people, a few pretty well-known people, a few people who weren't so well-known, who all kind of looked there or thereabouts.
[22:53] I've got roughly, my mum, even when I was a kid, she said, you remind me of a young Graham Kennedy.
[22:57] That sort of thing, like a passing resemblance, right?
[23:01] So I didn't want to even audition for it.
[23:02] And Nadzie was one of the main people who said, you've just got to get off your ass and you've got to actually face this and you've got to work on it and work hard on it and go back and just, and they offered me a chance to audition and I auditioned for it and to be perfectly honest with you, because of the work that I'd done leading up to that, I was way better and I got the role.
[23:24] Gosh.
[23:24] Oh, right.
[23:26] That was great.
[23:26] What a rollercoaster.
[23:28] What was the work?
[23:30] Uh, it's, it's research and time.
[23:34] It's, it's kind of.
[23:36] One of my pet hates is people who get to set and aren't ready, aren't prepared.
[23:41] And it's, it's research and time and taking the time to, to what I wanted to do was get the essence of him.
[23:48] I didn't want to look exactly like him.
[23:50] I think that, that moment that I looked in the mirror and they'd done the eyes and ostensibly, oh, right.
[23:55] I see you're doing a sort of a version.
[23:56] It's an impersonation.
[23:57] Is wrong.
[23:58] It's an impersonation.
[24:00] Right.
[24:00] Right.
[24:01] So it was just basically spending a hell of a lot of time getting to the essence of the character and getting to using his timing, like trying to get onto his timing, getting onto his wavelength and get onto his spirit rather than having to put all the bells and whistles into tricking people into believing that I'm him.
[24:22] I think that was the big one for me.
[24:25] Did you have to do work because that's the work on the role and the work needed to be done to get the role.
[24:32] Did you have to do work on yourself given the places you'd gone in that terror of failure?
[24:38] That's a great question.
[24:39] I did and I didn't.
[24:41] I did have to and I actually didn't do that.
[24:44] And that was about to come and bite me in the ass as well.
[24:49] So the shoot was coming up.
[24:52] And we'd done these two weeks of rehearsals leading up and I'd got the spirit, I'd got all the stuff, all the work that I'd put in on the character itself was there, was in place.
[25:03] Matt was happy, the producers were happy, the network was happy, it was ready to go.
[25:07] And what's your confidence at this point?
[25:11] Terrible.
[25:12] Even though everyone's happy.
[25:13] Terrible.
[25:14] Yeah.
[25:14] Because those words that I'd heard all those months earlier that don't stuff it up were ringing in my ears.
[25:21] And I remembered the moment that I'd stuffed it up that day.
[25:25] And I thought I had a good poker face and I don't at all, it turns out, because we get to the pre-shoot drinks on the Friday night.
[25:34] We're going to start shooting on the Monday.
[25:36] So once you, as you know, Ryan, the moment you shoot that first shot and that's when you get the most nervous because it's like, this is my character.
[25:44] And once it's there, that's it.
[25:47] It's got to be locked.
[25:48] Yeah, because it might not be the first scene that you're shooting.
[25:50] It might be like, so you've got to, yeah.
[25:52] And it wasn't the first scene.
[25:55] And Matty Sowell, the director, he pulls me aside at the drinks and he goes, how are you feeling?
[26:00] And I went, I'm good.
[26:01] I'm good.
[26:01] I'm pumped.
[26:02] I said all the right things you're meant to say before you go out and play a game of footy or whatever.
[26:07] You know, we're going to smash it.
[26:09] This is our year.
[26:10] It's all right, Matty.
[26:11] I'm going to kick 10 goals out there tomorrow.
[26:13] That's right.
[26:13] What are you talking about?
[26:14] Well, you're full back.
[26:15] So let's just try and save a few as well.
[26:17] Um, yeah, anyway, he saw through me and he'd already seen through me all week.
[26:22] And he put a ticket, a plane ticket in my hands.
[26:25] This is back when you got a little plane ticket.
[26:27] He didn't get your boarding pass at the airport.
[26:29] He had the ticket on him.
[26:29] He had the ticket and he gave me the ticket and he said, you're going to Sydney tomorrow morning.
[26:33] This is Friday, Friday night.
[26:36] And we're going to start shooting in Melbourne on Monday morning.
[26:39] I said, I can't.
[26:41] What are you talking about?
[26:42] I can't go to Sydney tomorrow.
[26:45] Have you lost your mind?
[26:47] We're shooting on Monday.
[26:48] And he goes, you're going to Sydney and here's an address you're going to.
[26:53] Go and call me after.
[26:56] Whoa.
[26:57] It was full on.
[26:58] What?
[26:58] So I get to the airport in Melbourne.
[27:00] This is a great act two, by the way.
[27:02] Well, yeah.
[27:03] There may not be an act three.
[27:04] I don't know.
[27:05] I don't know.
[27:05] But we get to the airport.
[27:06] I get to the airport in Melbourne.
[27:08] And Adzie has kind of said, just go.
[27:09] He knows what he's doing.
[27:11] Just go.
[27:11] And she, you know, she said, just go.
[27:13] He's not sending – he doesn't want this to be ruined.
[27:15] He's doing this for a reason.
[27:17] Just go.
[27:18] Go and do it.
[27:19] I don't want to stop your flow, but I do want to know what your relationship – is he a friend or like a boss?
[27:24] He's one of my best mates.
[27:25] Okay, so there's a lot of trust there.
[27:26] He's the director of the piece, but he's one of my best mates.
[27:28] There's a lot of trust, and he's also one of the best.
[27:32] Yeah.
[27:32] One of the best.
[27:33] No doubt.
[27:34] So I get to the airport, and I look up at the board, and I'm thinking –
[27:37] I didn't know whether I wanted the plane to be cancelled or if I wanted it to be going.
[27:42] And I realised it wasn't cancelled.
[27:43] It was on time.
[27:44] And then I remember looking at Rockhampton.
[27:46] And I was looking at Rockhampton going, I could just go to Rockhampton.
[27:52] I remember this, right?
[27:53] Genuinely?
[27:53] Just a fleeting moment.
[27:55] It's like, what if I just went to Rockhampton?
[27:57] Just stayed there.
[27:59] Because it was a moment, a momentary thing.
[28:02] Yeah.
[28:02] To run, escape.
[28:03] Run, fight or flight?
[28:04] I want a flight.
[28:05] He was giving me a flight.
[28:06] I'll take another flight.
[28:07] All right.
[28:08] All right.
[28:08] There was a boxing ring on the course.
[28:11] No flight.
[28:12] Yeah.
[28:12] Well, because that way no one would know that I'd failed at this thing apart from my wife and that guy and every single person who was relying on this thing going forward, right?
[28:22] Anyway, whatever.
[28:23] I get to Sydney.
[28:24] I get to this address.
[28:25] And then I knock on the door in North Bondi and this lady opens the door and she says, hi, Stephen.
[28:32] And I went, hi.
[28:32] She goes, I'm Helen.
[28:33] This is a lady called Helen Carmichael.
[28:37] And she says, come on in.
[28:39] We sit down, we have a cup of tea.
[28:41] She says, how are you going?
[28:41] I said, good, good, good, good.
[28:44] What the fuck's going on?
[28:46] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[28:48] Is this tops on or tops off?
[28:51] Anyway, I went tops off.
[28:55] And so she goes, right, okay, that's good.
[28:57] And then within 30 seconds, I was a bawling mess on her couch, bawling my eyes out.
[29:05] Like ugly crying on her couch.
[29:08] Did you know who she was?
[29:09] No.
[29:11] Never heard of her.
[29:12] Never seen her before in my life.
[29:13] Whoa.
[29:14] Did you know what she was?
[29:15] Nope.
[29:17] A human.
[29:19] I figured she was a human being.
[29:21] Good instincts.
[29:24] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[29:25] Well, that's an actor's instinct.
[29:27] I know people.
[29:29] Yeah.
[29:30] And she and anyway, anyway, on this blubbering mess and she just lets me cry and she just lets me just let it out.
[29:36] I'm not telling her anything.
[29:38] Right.
[29:39] And then I finally start going, as I'm pulling myself together, I start going, this is what's happening.
[29:43] I'm in this thing.
[29:44] I don't deserve to be in this thing.
[29:45] I'm going to fuck it up.
[29:46] I'm going to fuck it up.
[29:47] And everyone is going to know that I fucked it up and I'm not good enough to do this thing.
[29:52] That was the crux of what I was telling this lady.
[29:54] This lady I'd never met before.
[29:56] And I hadn't even told Nadsie enough about how fearful I was.
[29:59] In fact, I'd been so scared.
[30:00] And this is where this second part of this question, you know, could I turn to anyone?
[30:04] Could I, did I feel like having to talk to you?
[30:06] I had my wife there, my confidant.
[30:08] And I hadn't, I'd sort of told her I was a bit nervous, but I hadn't told her the full story because I was ashamed of it.
[30:14] I know that.
[30:15] I know what that's like because you almost don't want to say the thing out loud because it sort of makes it real.
[30:21] So even the person that you trust more than anything, it's like you're even sort of bluffing to them.
[30:26] Yeah, and to my mum and to my brother, Bernie, who was actually in it as well playing my best mate.
[30:30] He's going, so you're feeling good?
[30:31] Yeah, man, feeling good.
[30:32] And we'd been rehearsing and we sort of felt good in the piece.
[30:35] But as I said, further to your question, Josh, is that I'd worked on all the piece but hadn't worked on the me bit of it.
[30:42] Yeah.
[30:42] Yeah.
[30:43] So then I finally put myself together and she goes, listen, I've got a couple of things to do around the house.
[30:49] If you want to go over to that table and there was a table, like a trestle table with it looked like a kindergartens table, right?
[30:58] It had pipe cleaners and figurines and what you would expect to see at a kindy, right?
[31:03] Yeah.
[31:04] And she went, I want you to just play, just go and play, go and play at that table.
[31:09] And just, I don't know, make me a visual about why that just happened to you.
[31:15] Right.
[31:18] And so I went, okay.
[31:19] I'm thinking, I'm not a child.
[31:21] You know what I mean?
[31:22] Like everything in you is going, I haven't got time for pipe cleaners.
[31:26] I start shooting the king on Monday.
[31:27] Monday morning.
[31:28] The king.
[31:29] I'm the king.
[31:31] I'm the king.
[31:33] Anyway, she goes away and she comes back 15 minutes later and she goes, oh, cool, right.
[31:40] It's so cliche.
[31:41] I had set up all of these very innocuous animals like a panda bear and a whatever, all in a circle, all facing in, and one bigger lion, bigger than all the other figurines.
[31:53] The king of the jungle.
[31:54] The king of the jungle in the middle being watched by all of the people.
[31:59] Cliche as you could ever imagine.
[32:02] Consciously?
[32:03] Or...
[32:05] I want to say no, but I guess it had to be.
[32:07] Semi.
[32:08] Yeah, I don't know.
[32:09] I guess it had to be semi-consciously.
[32:12] Sure it was, but whatever.
[32:14] It was just there and it was now in front of me and I'd done it and I couldn't, she came and I couldn't just knock them off.
[32:19] I just go, I came up with nothing.
[32:22] I came up with a pipe cleaner and I'm all good.
[32:25] And so she goes, what are your thoughts on that?
[32:27] And this is in keeping with what this incredible woman did for me that day.
[32:33] She didn't tell me anything.
[32:35] Like she didn't tell me anything.
[32:37] She's like the people whisperer or something because she, I did all the talking and she just said, well, okay, what do you make of that?
[32:47] And it's like, I don't need to tell you what I make of that.
[32:50] I, you know, who, which one I am and you know what all those other things are.
[32:54] She said, well, how do you fix it?
[32:56] And it was as simple as, again, cliche, I'm not, I feel like if I was listening to this, I'd be going, here we go, great.
[33:05] Whatever, it's so dumb.
[33:06] On the edge of my seat.
[33:07] It's so dumb.
[33:07] I picked up the lion and I threw it at it.
[33:09] No, I picked up the lion and I just made a bit of space in the circle and the lion goes in the circle and I swapped the lion out, I took the lion and I threw him away and I got another little innocuous thing and I put him in the circle.
[33:24] Uh, and they were all looking in at the same thing.
[33:27] At each other.
[33:28] At each other.
[33:30] And kind of went, I, like, I felt like a kindergarten kid.
[33:38] Do you know what I mean?
[33:38] I felt like that's something that a grown adult should know.
[33:41] So hang on, just to be clear.
[33:43] So there was no one in the middle.
[33:45] There's no one in the middle.
[33:46] Gotcha.
[33:46] And it's collaboration.
[33:47] It is a visual representation of what collaboration is.
[33:52] Whilst Ryan thinks he's the star of this, you know, there are other people involved in this podcast.
[33:57] You know what I mean?
[34:01] The north east out there.
[34:02] They're doing a lot.
[34:03] They're the duck with the feet under water.
[34:06] Right.
[34:06] But we don't have them in this circle or the other.
[34:08] Right.
[34:10] But, you know, this is...
[34:11] They're not coming into this circle.
[34:12] Yes, not yet, but I'll give them five more minutes.
[34:15] If I don't get to the point, they probably will.
[34:17] They'll be forced to.
[34:20] But it was, you know, so dumb and so obvious.
[34:23] And you'd think 15 years into my career that I was then, 16 years into my career, you would think,
[34:30] that I would understand collaboration and the simple point of collaboration, which is that no one is more important or less important than the other person and every single person, no matter what their pay scale, is there for a reason and doing the same job and wants the same outcome and wants no one to fail and is not looking at someone to say, fix this, make this better,
[34:55] um, create something that might otherwise not be there or going back to the old friend that I had, don't stuff it up.
[35:02] No one is saying don't stuff it up.
[35:05] Nobody.
[35:06] And that, that was a huge, uh, I don't know, epiphany, I guess for me and, um,
[35:16] I hugged her for about three minutes on the way out.
[35:19] I feel like everyone does this to Helen Carmichael when they leave and she gives the best hugs and it was, I walked out of there walking on air.
[35:29] Not literally.
[35:31] Did she whisper?
[35:31] That'd be weird.
[35:32] Did she whisper?
[35:33] That'll be $500.
[35:35] I did think, what did Savile pay this lady to not say anything?
[35:41] She said nothing, nothing, but she gave a wicked hug.
[35:44] That's a $500 hug.
[35:45] Anyway, I walked out of there and that was it.
[35:50] I was on, I was ready to go.
[35:52] I rang him and he said, huh?
[35:55] I went, yeah, don't know what you did.
[35:57] He goes, how are we?
[35:58] I went, mate, let's go.
[36:01] I was...
[36:02] On board, I was, I was invigorated and this whole production was blessed.
[36:08] It was such a joyous production.
[36:09] It was so fun and so.
[36:13] It wasn't stressful like it was about to be.
[36:15] It wasn't stressful.
[36:17] It was just fun.
[36:18] And every single person in that thing, in this collaborative space, you know, Maddie Savile, the director, Jason Stevens, the producer, Leilani, uh, Hannah, the DOP, Con Mancusco, the gaffer, everyone from, from makeup to wardrobe to everyone in the cast just did that.
[36:35] thing that I had visually represented.
[36:38] And of course they were going to, of course they were going to.
[36:41] And it, and it, and it just, it just made me, and it's not like I don't get, um, you know, anxious about certain things anyway, ever since, but that has helped me ever since.
[36:55] And that was 2006 that we shot it.
[36:58] That has helped me ever since, not only work wise, but in social.
[37:04] Realms in, you know, any part of my life has been improved by that moment of, like, dumbass realisation.
[37:18] No, I don't think dumbass.
[37:19] I think it's a bit harsh on yourself.
[37:20] I just think it's – that's just a beautiful story.
[37:24] I feel like it's – I've got so many – I want to talk about this forever.
[37:30] Um, the collaboration realization is so powerful and I feel like I just, I needed to hear that today.
[37:37] Like that's really, really helpful, but how does it help?
[37:40] How has it helped you socially?
[37:41] Uh, that's a great question.
[37:42] I think, um, um, um,
[37:46] I've often felt like, because I've always been an extroverted person, I've always felt like there's a, there's a pressure to kind of, there had been a pressure to kind of keep the ball in the air.
[37:58] And what that did actually is it's not, it's not, it's kind of everyone's job.
[38:04] You know what I mean?
[38:04] Even if someone's been negative or even if someone's whatever, you just might mean an asshole.
[38:09] Yeah.
[38:11] That's not on you and that's not going to affect, that doesn't have to affect the whole situation.
[38:17] You don't have to fix a social interaction.
[38:23] It's not solely up to you.
[38:24] It's not solely up to you.
[38:26] And...
[38:28] I don't know, the times that I've hung out with you, especially in bigger social, I don't think I know someone who is as intentionally inclusive as you are, inclusive of other people.
[38:44] Because I think you make such an effort.
[38:47] It's very amazing.
[38:48] It's amazing to watch, actually.
[38:50] You make such an effort to spot the person, whether this is intentional or not, but...
[38:56] From what I can tell, it's like you sort of realise the person who isn't in it.
[39:00] Yeah.
[39:01] And you'll intentionally, like metaphorically, like grab them and bring them in.
[39:08] Yeah.
[39:09] So they're on board as well.
[39:11] Is that, does that?
[39:12] Yeah, I think that one goes back to childhood for me, I reckon.
[39:15] It's just you never wanted to be that kid that wasn't part of it, you know?
[39:20] Yeah.
[39:21] I just reckon it's like, and there were so many, there's so many things, you know, getting to the teenage years or whatever, you know, the footy heads and the whatevers and the cool people.
[39:30] I don't know.
[39:31] I was the musical theatre kid.
[39:34] I wanted so desperately to be in the cool group.
[39:38] Yeah.
[39:38] whatever and know that feeling of kind of them going, well, you're just not.
[39:43] And that's how I found all my lifelong friends is because they kind of weren't either and didn't have to be, you know, but there's a circle, there's a circle for them.
[39:52] There's a circle.
[39:53] If that circle is going to drain you, I don't know, there's a circle for you.
[39:59] Yeah, but it makes logical sense.
[40:02] And if like, and you telling me, I was like, yeah, that makes sense.
[40:08] you know, cause I think that is quite a common thing.
[40:12] Why that story I find so powerful is because actor acting or not, it's like often you feel like everyone's looking at you and you feel like, Oh God, you know, I've got to, if I don't wear the right thing, everyone's, it's going to be embarrassing.
[40:28] Or if I,
[40:29] say the wrong thing like everyone you think everyone's looking at you or talking about you but in reality we're all in this together and if anything everyone's feeling the same thing so no one's actually looking at anyone else anyway 100 i used to have this thing when i was working with more experienced actors that i that they were looking at me in the moment of the scene and realizing that i wasn't quite
[40:52] You know, I wasn't paranoid about it.
[40:54] It was just like I just had this general sense that they just kind of know that I've got stuff to learn, which I did.
[41:00] I did have it, but they weren't thinking that.
[41:02] You know, I had the great pleasure of having Bud Tingwell, the great Bud Tingwell, be a mentor of mine in early days.
[41:09] And he was so generous and he was so instrumental in getting out of that mindset.
[41:16] Really?
[41:17] Of just kind of going, everyone's kind of making it up.
[41:19] And everyone's learning as they go.
[41:21] It doesn't matter how trained they are, how many films they've done, how many whatever, how many awards they've won.
[41:26] It's that everyone is still in that moment is still making it up and everyone around them wants it to work.
[41:33] That last bit is the important bit I think as well.
[41:37] For you, that fear of like everyone wants you to succeed?
[41:40] Yep.
[41:40] Because I feel like it would be, sorry, I shouldn't say for you, that was probably psychoanalyzing.
[41:45] That's exactly what I've, yes.
[41:47] Yeah, I think I was actually speaking for me as well.
[41:51] I think I feel like unfairly too much in life that people don't want me to succeed.
[41:58] And I don't know where I got that idea from because not many, I don't think that about anyone and I don't know anyone that does.
[42:03] No.
[42:03] But it's easy to feel like that.
[42:06] Okay.
[42:06] So there's, there are probably people out there who have felt that way, but I don't think I've ever worked with them.
[42:13] Yeah.
[42:14] Or if confronted with that reality of them actually saying, I don't want you to, then you would be like, well, I don't really, realistically, I don't care what you think then.
[42:22] Yeah, well, it's like all the deadly sins or whatever, you know, envy and hubris are probably kind of fairly intrinsically linked in that way.
[42:30] There might be people who kind of, I don't know, who want to be in your position or think they should be in your position or whatever.
[42:38] That's fine.
[42:38] That's on them.
[42:39] That's okay.
[42:40] I don't mind that.
[42:42] I don't mind the fact that that exists because it does.
[42:44] But it doesn't in a professional circle like we get to work in,
[42:53] in which almost everyone is doing something they love doing.
[42:57] that I don't think that exists in that world.
[43:02] I like to believe that it doesn't because people do want you to succeed just as much as you want them to succeed.
[43:07] But I imagine that you, I imagine that that is not always the case in creative and professional fields and the learning that you had, you've taken on to future projects and made sure that that environment exists.
[43:21] A hundred percent.
[43:22] Yeah.
[43:22] A hundred percent.
[43:24] And I think being thankful,
[43:26] um, you know, what I said before about your hobby, it's my hobby.
[43:29] It's my, it's what I love doing and they're going to pay me to do it.
[43:32] I think being thankful for that feeds into that.
[43:36] I think you want to be, and you do it this Ryan too, is Ryan and I've worked together before and you come in, not only are you prepared, not only are you ready to work, but you come in with an energy that says, oh,
[43:49] I'm here for you guys, that I'm, let's do this as a team.
[43:54] It's not, you're not walking in.
[43:55] We've all seen people walking in occasionally going, I'm the star.
[44:00] The lion.
[44:00] That thankfulness and that appreciation of what we get to do for a job.
[44:05] It's crazy what we get to do for a job.
[44:08] He's different around here.
[44:09] I bet he is.
[44:10] I bet he is.
[44:10] Why is his chair slightly higher than your chairs?
[44:13] It's like a fucking throne, isn't it?
[44:15] It just represents the pay scale.
[44:16] Yeah.
[44:16] You guys are on milk crates.
[44:18] Why are you guys on milk crates?
[44:19] I'm actually kneeling.
[44:20] The milk crate can get quite uncomfortable.
[44:24] And when the knees start bleeding, you know that he's entered.
[44:27] Yeah.
[44:28] Yeah.
[44:28] That's how I got most of my jobs done.
[44:31] But so it's what...
[44:34] Come on, Ryan.
[44:37] Can I ask you a question?
[44:38] Yes, please.
[44:39] We're here.
[44:40] I don't want a talking.
[44:41] No, no.
[44:43] Your talking's been beautiful.
[44:45] I wanted to ask about the feeling of the fear of saying something, your deepest fear out loud will make it concrete and real.
[44:53] Yep.
[44:55] How did it feel to say it out loud in relation to that?
[44:59] Yeah.
[45:01] Uh, incredible, incredible.
[45:04] And even, even coming back so elated to Nadzie as well and kind of get told of the whole story.
[45:10] And the fact that I had omitted a lot of my fear to my, to my most trusted person was crazy.
[45:18] It was crazy to me.
[45:19] And it was like, she's going at the same time going, I'm not here.
[45:23] You know what I mean?
[45:24] That, but that feeling, that weight off the shoulders was crazy.
[45:28] immense because the relief of being able to go, if I tell, and it's not just telling Natsy, it's just, if I tell, you know, my friend Matt, the director, if I, if, if I told Jason, the producer, if I tell, you know, anyone, they're going to think less of me, or they're going to fear that this is going to, it's going to envelop me or it's going to make me crumble or whatever.
[45:49] There was this absolute pride.
[45:52] And again, that hubris that I mentioned before, um,
[45:55] that you're kind of going, well, no, I've got the role because I'm me, you know, but if I reveal that the real me is incredibly fearful of making a complete mess of it, then that'll be the end of that version of me.
[46:14] Wow.
[46:14] Which it's not.
[46:16] It won't be.
[46:17] And even if the show was a disaster, it wouldn't be the end of me.
[46:21] It would be probably a time for serious soul searching and, you know, having to confront my, perhaps that I had to work harder at it or find something else to do.
[46:35] You know what I mean?
[46:35] But it wasn't going to be the end of me.
[46:37] But I think not saying it could well have been the end of me.
[46:41] Yeah, absolutely.
[46:44] So what is Helen?
[46:46] Yeah.
[46:47] What?
[46:48] Human being.
[46:50] What I'm going to do, have we got a diction?
[46:54] We've actually got a table with a lot of mothers.
[46:56] I don't.
[46:56] She seems like one of those people that if you went back to the apartment a day later, it would be like a family of four.
[47:00] It's like, there's been no Helen here for 10 years.
[47:05] I don't have any proof that she exists.
[47:08] I don't know.
[47:09] I think saying life coach is probably not quite, I think somewhere between a life coach and a people whisperer, I don't know.
[47:18] I don't know.
[47:19] Yeah.
[47:20] But she has an energy about her that when we talked yesterday, it was the first time we'd ever talked about you.
[47:28] And the first thing I said to you is I feel like you're one of my best mates.
[47:31] Yeah.
[47:32] Right, because there is an energy, and it goes for all of you.
[47:35] I don't mean to, it was just because I spoke to Hugh, so don't feel bad, Josh.
[47:39] That's very kind of good to think of me.
[47:41] But it is.
[47:41] No, it is.
[47:42] Listening to this show, and the reason I like, you know, listening to it while I kill the hydrangeas.
[47:47] Too much sun.
[47:48] Intentionally.
[47:49] Too much afternoon sun.
[47:51] Is that very thing that there's an energy that exudes that is kind of, it's impossible to quantify or to put into words.
[48:02] That's, I always, every time I've heard this show, I know you and I love you, Ryan.
[48:07] And I feel like, you know, we're friends now.
[48:10] I hope so.
[48:11] But you know what I mean?
[48:13] The ball one, boys.
[48:15] I don't think it's that much different.
[48:16] And your resilience project is testament to that, where we're...
[48:24] I don't think it can be taught what she does.
[48:26] I don't think there's a course to teach her how to be Helen Carmichael.
[48:30] But does she do that for actors?
[48:32] Like what – is that something that she – I think just people.
[48:35] Just anyone.
[48:36] Yeah.
[48:36] Yeah.
[48:37] Yeah.
[48:37] Other people.
[48:39] She's a person.
[48:39] She's a human being.
[48:40] She's a human being.
[48:41] Yeah.
[48:41] We've booked it out for a while now if we can just get her details up on that.
[48:44] Yeah, yeah.
[48:46] Well, I hope she doesn't mind me telling the secret at the table because then the people go, I knew this bit was coming.
[48:51] I didn't want to ruin that for her.
[48:53] No, but I don't know.
[48:54] I don't know.
[48:56] There's the honesty.
[48:58] I don't know what would be on her business card.
[49:00] It actually doesn't matter.
[49:01] It doesn't matter, but she's one of those people.
[49:04] She's just one of those people.
[49:05] And very rarely in your life do you get to meet one of those people that,
[49:10] I don't know, can say nothing to you and teach you everything about yourself.
[49:15] I had this funny thought that she was just a lady at home and Matt had given you the wrong address and you knocked on the door.
[49:21] She's just a fan of your work.
[49:24] Walked in and started crying and she didn't know what to do.
[49:28] Did you play my kids toys for her?
[49:30] Little Tommy's off at kindy so you might want to come.
[49:33] I have some cleaning to do but you have to entertain yourself.
[49:36] Come in, Stephen Curry.
[49:37] I just have to go and call the police.
[49:38] Yes, yes.
[49:41] There is a mid-level jobbing actor crying on my couch for some reason.
[49:45] Then he hugged me and wouldn't let go.
[49:46] And gave me money.
[49:49] She's made a career out of it.
[49:50] Sit on the couch and cry.
[49:53] Make some toys.
[49:55] Oh, that's funny.
[49:56] You know, many years later, I did a very small blink and you miss it role on Thor Love and Thunder, playing this blue alien.
[50:07] And I was put into a position and I talk as in the Marvel character.
[50:14] And literally I'm in two scenes in this movie, right?
[50:18] But, but Taika, who I love dearly, Taika Waititi, who I love, who I think is an incredible, he's a bloody genius.
[50:28] He has so much going on in his head that he didn't, I guess he probably didn't remember that we hadn't actually talked about my character at all.
[50:38] So when I auditioned for it, I didn't even know it was Thor and I didn't even know what, I just got this script and I had to rouse some troops and I had to do it as an Australian and as an American and I got the role.
[50:49] Then I find out I'm playing a blue alien king in Thor Love and Thunder, and I've got to help Thor.
[50:55] Thor's coming to help me eradicate these evil sort of bat things from destroying my kingdom, and Thor ends up destroying my kingdom through trying to do it.
[51:02] That's the gag, right?
[51:03] Very tropey.
[51:04] Very tropey.
[51:05] And my character gives him his goats that scream the rest of the way through the movie.
[51:09] Anyway, he hadn't mentioned to me, like I kept saying, hey, Tiger, can I quickly just have a chat about the, you know, we're talking American, Australian or whatever, right?
[51:18] And I've got this crazy blue three hours in prosthetics and I'm going, can I do that?
[51:26] And, and the first day of shooting, right, I had this, I had this slab, this, this, the, the biggest thing that I do in the thing, which is like a half page monologue thing that I've got to do.
[51:38] And then I went and I get it again and then I've waited all day and I finally go, okay, they're ready for you.
[51:43] And I get onto set and there are 400 people.
[51:46] This is a Marvel movie.
[51:48] This is a $150 million Marvel movie, right?
[51:51] I don't know what I'm doing, okay?
[51:53] If it wasn't for Helen Carmichael, I'd be in a ball by now because I'm going, you know what?
[51:57] It's cool.
[51:58] No one wants you to fail.
[52:00] Go out there and have some fun.
[52:01] All right, knock, knock, knock.
[52:02] Okay, Stephen, we're ready for you.
[52:04] They take me out onto this massive soundstage, 400 people.
[52:08] I'm just walking up and I went, hey, and then I'd met Chris Hemsworth at an audition 15 years earlier, never seen him since.
[52:16] And I went, hey, and they went, hey, Chris, you know, Stephen went, yep, yep.
[52:18] Hey, Chris, this is Chris Pratt.
[52:20] Yeah, hey.
[52:20] And now I'm standing between Chris Hemsworth and Chris Pratt, not knowing what I'm meant to be doing, whether it's American or Australian, and running through
[52:30] running through the accent if it's American, knowing the accent, but then also it's a lot of words, so making sure I've got all the words.
[52:36] And then they went, okay, turn over.
[52:38] And I'm standing there going, Tycho, what are we doing?
[52:40] Where am I?
[52:41] Yeah, and I said, am I starting with the monologue?
[52:44] He goes, what monologue?
[52:45] I went, the monologue from the thing.
[52:46] And he goes, oh, no, we're not doing that scene.
[52:48] We're doing another scene in which Thor and Quill are looking at their spaceship and it's covered in your cat shit.
[52:57] Your cat has shadow over the spaceship.
[52:59] And I went, okay.
[53:03] And they're going to just say something.
[53:05] Tiger's going, they're just going to say something.
[53:06] And there's 400 people there watching, right, not looking at me, waiting for me to fail.
[53:10] They're waiting for me to succeed.
[53:12] But I'm going to, I think I might fail, right?
[53:15] And I went, okay, so what?
[53:17] And he goes, okay, so Chris Pratt is probably going to just say something like, what's that?
[53:21] And then you say, it's your ship.
[53:24] And then he says, what's it covered in?
[53:26] And you say something like, cat shit.
[53:28] All right.
[53:28] I went, okay.
[53:29] Wow.
[53:29] Cool.
[53:29] He goes, all right, mate, turn over.
[53:31] I went, whoa, sorry, Australian or American?
[53:34] All right.
[53:37] And he goes, oh, China's Australian.
[53:41] So, okay, turn over and action.
[53:43] And he goes, what's that?
[53:44] I say, I say, ah, that's your ship.
[53:47] He goes, what's the cover?
[53:48] I said, cat shit.
[53:50] All right, cat.
[53:52] He goes, yeah, that's not working.
[53:55] Fail.
[53:56] Yeah.
[53:57] I didn't feel like it was.
[53:58] No.
[53:59] What do you reckon?
[54:01] Go American?
[54:01] He goes, no.
[54:02] I know this is asking a heap, Tyke.
[54:05] Can you direct me?
[54:07] No, no.
[54:08] No, but again, I love the idea.
[54:10] I actually appreciate what he did because it's like right deep end stuff.
[54:13] And thanks, Helen Carmichael, because I quite enjoy the deep end stuff now.
[54:17] Anyway, and he goes, I said, so American?
[54:20] He goes, no, you know what, cars, try it as an alien.
[54:27] I went, what is an alien sound like?
[54:28] He goes, will you show me?
[54:29] Turn over.
[54:32] 400 people.
[54:34] Chris Hemsworth, Chris Pratt, me in my alien face.
[54:39] And action.
[54:40] And he goes, what's that?
[54:42] And I say, that is your ship.
[54:47] He says, what's the comedy?
[54:49] And I said, gut shit.
[54:52] And they went, cut.
[54:53] All right, that's a wrap.
[54:54] That's it.
[54:55] What?
[54:55] What?
[54:56] Can I have another go?
[54:57] He goes, no, no, it's a wrap.
[54:58] It's fine.
[54:58] It's good.
[54:59] I said, is that the...
[55:00] He goes, yep, that's your voice.
[55:02] So the next...
[55:03] You've got to do the monologue.
[55:04] I had to go back to my hotel room all night and go, what voice did I do?
[55:08] I didn't even remember what voice I did.
[55:10] I got this cut shit or whatever.
[55:12] I had no idea what voice I was doing.
[55:17] But it would have been, honestly, it would have been one of those moments where it's like...
[55:22] I'm out.
[55:23] I can't, no, you know, it would have made me capitulate.
[55:27] But what it did is like, it kind of made me laugh.
[55:30] Like it made me laugh.
[55:32] And I went home, I was peaking when I got home.
[55:34] Don't get me wrong.
[55:36] But the whole thing was like, I'd been, I'd been taught many years earlier that, that you're not being set up to fail.
[55:44] You're being set up to succeed.
[55:46] And Tyka was kind of going, I trust you with that.
[55:51] And it's also one of those things where you always forget this, but you've got to hope that they've cast you for a reason.
[55:57] And it's like, it's the thing of like, you know, I've heard basketball coaches talk about this or in a lot of professional sports, it's like when you're training, you're like teaching the player how to play.
[56:10] But when it's game time, just trust they know what they're doing.
[56:12] A hundred percent.
[56:13] The scene's not in the movie.
[56:15] I will.
[56:15] I will.
[56:17] I will.
[56:18] So you did.
[56:18] You failed.
[56:19] You did fail.
[56:20] That scene didn't make it to the movie, but the accent that we worked so hard on during that scene certainly made it to the movie.
[56:27] I did.
[56:27] Oh, okay.
[56:28] So the scene that I was meant to do that day made it into the film with the accent that we jammed in front of 400 people and my two favourite tall, famous Chrises.
[56:38] And it was just, it was just bonkers.
[56:40] It was bonkers.
[56:41] Wow.
[56:42] Got any other great stories that you just want to share?
[56:45] So anyway, it's day two on the nugget.
[56:49] Eric Banner has just started calling me cars, a nickname for me, not my actual name, a nickname.
[56:54] And I'm thinking, I have made it.
[56:55] I have not.
[56:58] That's my only story.
[56:59] That's my only story.
[57:00] I have something that I think is worth emphasising off the back of that.
[57:05] Maybe it's...
[57:06] gilding the lily, so to speak.
[57:09] Gilding the hydranger.
[57:10] Yeah, gilding the hydranger.
[57:11] But I think it's easy to hear that story and say, well, that's like, that's such an incredible story with like, it's Tyka, it's Chris Pratt, it's Marvel, it's you, it's this huge world.
[57:22] It's got all the makings of clickbait.
[57:24] Yeah.
[57:25] It's going to do great online.
[57:26] Yeah, yeah, which thanks for that.
[57:28] But...
[57:29] I think it's really, it's so pertinent to everyone in that like I think when I think of my life up until this point where I would be doing like a little job for like I used to be like a freelance sort of film, not filmmaker, freelance content creator where I'd like film things for small brands and like anyone who's done that I've done some
[57:59] embarrassingly small jobs that I've sucked at, that I've failed at.
[58:04] Yeah.
[58:04] And I've felt like a failure for a lot of doing that.
[58:07] And I think a lot of people who do any job of any level turn up to a job and feel like a failure every day when they turn up.
[58:15] And I think I, for a long time, I was under the allure that I need to be the one that succeeds here to overcome that feeling of failure.
[58:24] Like it needs to be me that gets the credit.
[58:27] So I don't feel like a failure anymore.
[58:29] Wow.
[58:29] But it wasn't until doing this job with Ryan Hubridge, George, Bella, the full team, that I started to realise that it's our success that will make me no longer feel like a failure, not my success.
[58:43] Awesome.
[58:44] And it's exactly what you're talking about in that scene and the whole story.
[58:46] But I just wanted to emphasise that I think it runs all the way down to
[58:53] prep at school.
[58:54] Like it's about us succeeding as a group that will make you feel like more of a success, not you.
[58:59] Yes.
[59:00] I, yes.
[59:01] I mean, it's a bit redundant to say I agree because you know, that's what I'm banging on about, but yes, I can't agree more wholeheartedly.
[59:10] And I don't think, and you mentioned before Ryan about, you know, it doesn't matter what you do, it's not specific in any way to our industry as you've just proven to Josh, but, um.
[59:20] I just, I believe it wholeheartedly and, and you know, to, to be able to come at anything you do at any age and you know, I've got, I've got young kids and my, my oldest has just started secondary school.
[59:34] You know, for him to be able to feel like he's part of something and not, and not feeling, you know, it's a very confronting thing for anyone to sort of start a new school or, you know, to, to, you know, it can be a big upheaval in his life and stuff.
[59:47] And, and to, he's got, he's got a good crew around him and they do that and they're 12, you know, and he's not, no one's setting him up to fail.
[59:56] He knows that.
[59:57] You know, he knows we're not.
[59:59] And that, I do think it should, in a perfect world, start very young for people to be able to feel that sense of security in whatever their pursuit might be.
[1:00:14] And it's a great observation, Josh, but to round it all off to say that
[1:00:20] And to link it to the theme of this whole podcast, but it starts by being vulnerable enough to say, I'm scared I'm going to fail.
[1:00:27] Yeah.
[1:00:28] Like that's what started it, being able to actually say out loud, which would be a very difficult thing for a lot of people to do, but to say, I'm scared I'm going to fail, scared I'm not good enough.
[1:00:34] Yep.
[1:00:36] That's where it started.
[1:00:37] Yeah.
[1:00:37] And okay, so then going back into what specifically in our industry...
[1:00:43] I always had this thing about if you show that kind of vulnerability, you're very expendable.
[1:00:47] And so our industry, I don't have experience in any other industries apart from the baking industry, of course.
[1:00:53] But my mum asked me years ago, so do you think you've made it?
[1:00:58] Right?
[1:00:58] It's a really interesting question.
[1:01:00] Yeah.
[1:01:00] And I kind of, I thought about it and I kind of went, I don't think you ever have.
[1:01:05] You know, there are people who've made it.
[1:01:07] I don't know what made it means, never have to work again or feel like you've worked your entire career and built and succeeded in whatever field you want to do.
[1:01:18] But I think that the fear was that it's like if you're going to slow us down
[1:01:24] than irreplaceable.
[1:01:26] You know, my dad said to me years ago, he said, he said about the acting, he said, the thing about you want, the reason you want to find something to fall back on is he goes, he goes, as you think about a flatty, flathead, raised fishing.
[1:01:38] He said, what happens when we catch a flatty?
[1:01:40] I went, I don't know.
[1:01:41] We eat it.
[1:01:42] And he goes, no, another flatty just comes into its place.
[1:01:46] And it's a really good point.
[1:01:47] Right.
[1:01:48] And he was an accountant, so he was ensconced.
[1:01:51] So he, the harder he worked, the more he could, he could feel assured that he was sort of, he'd done the work and he could, he could stay employed.
[1:01:59] Right.
[1:02:00] Whereas in our game.
[1:02:02] You know, the old thing about you're only as good as your last job or whatever.
[1:02:07] I think you're only as good as your next job because you never know, like you're never set.
[1:02:11] And that was that fear that they kind of go, in my head, it's like, if you tell them that you're vulnerable, that you're prone to self-doubt or any of that sort of stuff in an industry that's all about, it's a confidence game.
[1:02:26] In my head, it was, you can't say that because the next dude who just looks a bit like you, but just a bit better looking, I know it's hard to believe, um, but we'll just come along and take your place.
[1:02:40] And that's rubbish.
[1:02:41] You know, I don't, I don't subscribe to that at all.
[1:02:44] And I think it's, um, you know.
[1:02:46] Well, I think we're in a time now where it's a lot easier to be able to talk about things.
[1:02:50] But I started in 1989 where it was, you know, it was very much an old school mentality.
[1:02:55] And it was back when first ADs used to just, just, they were old, white, angry men.
[1:03:01] And they would yell at anyone they wanted to, including me, including anyone.
[1:03:06] If you just weren't, if you didn't hit your mark or if you dropped a line or if you whatever, yeah.
[1:03:12] And they'd be yelling at the lower, you know, the people on the lower rungs of the crew or they'd be, they'd be just destroying somebody in makeup or, or wardrobe for taking too long on set and slowing his day down and all that sort of stuff, which.
[1:03:24] They sound great.
[1:03:25] They're gone.
[1:03:25] Yeah.
[1:03:27] They're gone.
[1:03:28] As you know, Ryan, rarely will you work with a first AD.
[1:03:31] So a first AD, first assistant director on a set is there to keep the day moving.
[1:03:36] Is there to get the whole call sheet for that day shot.
[1:03:40] That's, that's their job.
[1:03:41] But the good ones and the ones that get all the work these days are the ones who are really, it's almost like the, the lady you're getting and the more down you are, the broader they smile.
[1:03:51] And Annie Maver, so Annie Maver is the first lady who's worked with Working Dog and did The Castle.
[1:03:56] And the happiest, most bubbly, lovely person you'll ever meet.
[1:04:01] But far out, if you're down in a day, you don't know it.
[1:04:04] Not your fault.
[1:04:05] She gets it done because she makes everyone feel like they're in that circle that I talked about.
[1:04:12] Yep.
[1:04:13] Do I talk too much?
[1:04:14] No.
[1:04:15] Perfect amount.
[1:04:16] Don't say anything else.
[1:04:19] You're done.
[1:04:19] But you've hit the perfect amount.
[1:04:22] No, I'm joking.
[1:04:23] I think it's worth saying on the, I don't know if this is like a caveat to, we talk about this a bit with vulnerability to always vulnerable responsibly.
[1:04:30] Because I think it's important to be reminded to be vulnerable with people who you really trust.
[1:04:37] Yes.
[1:04:37] Because you want that when you are going to go to that point that is so terrifying, it's really important that you're held with care and love.
[1:04:46] Yes.
[1:04:46] Like a random woman in an apartment in Sydney.
[1:04:48] Yeah, yeah.
[1:04:48] Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[1:04:51] I stole one of her pipe planners too.
[1:04:54] Yeah, but your point before of like the fear of someone else taking your role, if you, I guess the great irony that you're carrying so much that you're never going to bring your best to what you're doing anyway.
[1:05:06] So not sharing is more dangerous than sharing it, but also just being...
[1:05:12] I don't know.
[1:05:14] I don't want to scare people off being vulnerable, but I think it's important to make sure that you're not going up to that old first AD that you were talking about, but going to people who you trust and have your best interests at heart.
[1:05:26] Yes.
[1:05:26] Yeah.
[1:05:27] Yes.
[1:05:27] And that was one of the reasons why I felt a bit sort of,
[1:05:30] I don't know, dumb or something, because I have so many, I'm so fortunate.
[1:05:34] I mentioned this at the start.
[1:05:35] I'm so fortunate to have so many people who, who, who I can trust and I can rely on.
[1:05:40] And I've, I've been incredibly fortunate in my life in that regard.
[1:05:45] And to kind of, to see the wood for the trees in that and to realize they hadn't, they hadn't lent on any of them in the way that I would love for them to lean on me is bonkers to me.
[1:05:57] Yeah.
[1:05:58] When, when referring to some of the revelations you had with Helen, you have used some pretty negative language to describe yourself.
[1:06:06] Yeah.
[1:06:06] Sorry about that.
[1:06:07] No, don't, don't apologize.
[1:06:09] Um, it's just interesting.
[1:06:11] And it would be interesting to hear how you view the version of Stephen Curry, non-basketballer that went into that room that day.
[1:06:20] Oh, right.
[1:06:20] Oh yeah.
[1:06:21] I would, I would say, um,
[1:06:24] Now looking back after everything you've learned.
[1:06:26] I'd say I see someone who's risking, um, cutting, cutting themselves off from a lot of future opportunity.
[1:06:37] I think there is this, I mentioned fight or flight.
[1:06:41] And I think that, um.
[1:06:44] I think that that guy is really in danger of not getting to a point that I am right now, which I'm a very happy person and fulfilled person.
[1:06:56] And that doesn't just – not defined by my job or anything like that, but I think it speaks to his attitude and to his belief in himself.
[1:07:07] I didn't have kids back then and I genuinely think my –
[1:07:13] epiphany, if we're going to call it that, um, has led to me being a happier and, uh, more successful person in life.
[1:07:25] Successful at being a person.
[1:07:26] Successful at being a person.
[1:07:27] Like Helen Carmichael's a person.
[1:07:29] Did I mention she's a, she's a human being.
[1:07:31] Yeah.
[1:07:32] Yeah.
[1:07:32] If that makes any sense.
[1:07:33] Yeah, it does.
[1:07:34] Yeah.
[1:07:34] It's beautiful.
[1:07:35] I think that guy was, yeah, I think he was, he was in danger of, of shutting himself
[1:07:40] off from opportunity.
[1:07:42] Incredible.
[1:07:43] I just, it was weird coming in here.
[1:07:44] It was kind of like, oh my God, don't talk too much.
[1:07:47] Oh, don't talk too little.
[1:07:48] And I was mentioning to you yesterday on the phone here, it was like, there are people who have come into this show who have had some really, really horrible, horrible things happen in their lives.
[1:07:57] And I'm going to come and talk about the time that I was, you know, I was a bit worried that I wasn't going to be very good or whatever, you know.
[1:08:02] But it's just, it's been...
[1:08:04] Awesome.
[1:08:05] I've really, really enjoyed the chat.
[1:08:07] And this is why I enjoy listening to this show is because it is, again, it is that kind of collaborative approach to a conversation in which no one wants you to fail.
[1:08:17] Well, it's, it's a, um, you might be right in saying that may not be the trauma that other guests have maybe experienced, but I feel like it's equally as helpful, um, to be able to hear something that we all grapple with from day to day, which is, um, essentially confidence and self-esteem and, um,
[1:08:31] and belief.
[1:08:32] And I think to hear a story of someone like yourself, ostensibly, who's just got it all sorted to hear that at one point you didn't and the journey you've been through.
[1:08:40] It's been a pleasure to be in the circle with you today.
[1:08:43] Thank you guys.
[1:08:44] I really appreciate it.
[1:08:45] It's a great gift.
[1:08:46] Thank you.
[1:08:47] I love you, Steve.
[1:08:48] I love you.
[1:08:50] Enjoyed this week's episode but want a little more?
[1:08:53] Then you might want to know that we have a brand new show called A Little More Imperfects over on Patreon.
[1:08:59] For a little bit of money, you'll get access to bonus episodes with the three of us every fortnight, early access to live events, plus other things that we haven't thought of yet, but when we do think of them, you'll get them.
[1:09:12] Visit patreon.com forward slash the imperfects.

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