# Let’s Talk About Hugh’s Open Letter

An episode of [The Imperfects](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1476501557), 27 Mar 2025, 42 min.

Audio: https://enrichment.soundstack.com/4vjqq8/episode.flightcast.com/mhrevuvqfwf4yydd7dw7q2ug.mp3

It’s been a big few weeks since Hugh released his Open Letter to Parents of Neurodivergent People (episode linked below). If you haven't heard it, it’s best to listen to that before you listen to this episode. Today we wanted to catch up and reflect on whats happened since. Hugh shares some beautiful messages, and Josh asks, practically, how we can show less judgement and more empathy to neurodivergent people and the people who care for them. Then, Ryan does some quick maths to fact check Hugh’s claim to reply to every single message he’s received since the Open Letter went live. We are so profoundly grateful for every message of love and support. Love, The Imperfects xxx 🎧 If you want to listen to Hugh’s Open Letter to Parents of Neurodivergent People, click here - https://apple.co/4l4kw0m 💻 If you want to watch this full chat on YouTube, click here - https://youtu.be/wFrlUkqR8y4

## Transcript

[0:00] The following episode of The Imperfects mentions suicide.
[0:03] If this is too much for you right now, then we suggest you skip this one and come back when you're ready.
[0:11] We are here for a bonus ep and I love doing bonus eps.
[0:17] I love an extra time to hang out.
[0:19] That's nice, isn't it?
[0:21] Everything in the world that is a bonus is a good thing, really.
[0:24] Yeah.
[0:24] I can't think of a bad bonus.
[0:25] Yeah.
[0:26] True.
[0:26] Well, the word bonus in itself, it says it's positive.
[0:31] It's like, you got a bonus shot.
[0:33] Yeah.
[0:33] Oh, you got a bonus steak.
[0:35] Never hear that much.
[0:35] No, I've never heard that much.
[0:37] You don't get given.
[0:38] Congratulations, sir.
[0:39] You've got yourself a bonus steak.
[0:41] I'm pretty full.
[0:42] Well, it's yours.
[0:45] Yeah, but we are here for a very, very specific reason.
[0:49] And Hugh, it has, well, for all of us really in different ways, but Hugh, particularly for you, it's been a big few weeks since we released the episode where you read out your open letter to parents of neurodivergent people.
[1:05] And yeah, we just wanted to sort of, I guess, catch up and just maybe like reflect on it.
[1:11] Yeah, I've got a few things I want to say off the back of it because it's, I can't believe what's happened.
[1:18] I mean, it did take me two months to write it.
[1:22] I remember Bridge and I were chatting one day about the possibility of talking about,
[1:27] my journey purely the whole purpose was for, well, there were two things.
[1:32] I was hoping that other parents of neurodivergent kids would feel a little bit less alone, which from the beautiful message I'm getting from people, that has happened.
[1:41] But I also wanted neurotypical people to think about ways they could potentially make the world a better place for people with, just very simply, we're born with different brains.
[1:53] And that's what it sort of, but it did take,
[1:55] I was so worried about getting the wording wrong.
[1:58] I didn't want to upset anyone or misspeak.
[2:00] It's very new to me, this whole space.
[2:02] So as far as it's not new to me, because I've been living with it for a long time in our house and I myself as a neurodivergent ADHD person have been living for 44 years.
[2:12] But speaking about it is new to me.
[2:15] So getting the wording right.
[2:17] So it took a couple of months.
[2:18] I wrote it and rewrote it and then deleted it and started again.
[2:21] and sought a lot of guidance.
[2:23] So it took a long time to do it and I remember going into the studio on the day and I've never felt so nervous in my entire life just because I had a feeling a lot of people were going to listen to it and as I was reading it,
[2:37] And we do this podcast all the time, but every time I sit here, I don't, you don't feel like there's a room full of however many people are going to listen.
[2:44] I just feel like I'm chatting.
[2:45] You're talking about the conversation.
[2:46] Yeah, I'm talking about the two of you basically and having a good chat with you guys.
[2:50] But it felt like as I was reading that, I felt like there were millions and millions of people watching and listening as I was doing it.
[2:56] Jeez, no pressure.
[2:57] And then there was the pressure of wanting to do a job that my child one day would look...
[3:00] When they... You know, I mean, they're very proud of their autism.
[3:05] I love hearing them speak about it and telling people about it.
[3:07] But I...
[3:09] The other thing was I want to do a job that they are proud of and they're happy of one day when they look back on it.
[3:12] But...
[3:13] For quite a long time, I thought I wouldn't do anything or say anything here just because it scared me a bit, the thought of talking about it and I wasn't sure how you talk about it.
[3:24] I remember once literally hanging out.
[3:26] I was with Hamish Blake and his trainer, Sam, and he was asking about my parenting journey and I was telling him and then Hamish said, this will be your most important work if you want it to be.
[3:39] If you want to talk about this one day, I think this will be your most important work.
[3:42] And that's the first time the thought came into my head that maybe I could say something that might, but I didn't know what and how that was probably about halfway through last year.
[3:50] And then there were just so many examples of guests that came on and, and shared their story that just made me think.
[3:58] no, I can definitely do this.
[3:59] And then the way you guys are, both of you, and then everyone behind the curtain, behind the curtain, I mean literally the people who are in this room but are behind the curtain, George, Bell and Bridge, I just thought, no, no, I can do this.
[4:10] And then with chatting it through with Penny, most importantly, my wife who is just so...
[4:18] Yeah, I mean, we're on the same page with it.
[4:20] So from that point on, it was always going to happen.
[4:24] I thought for today, there's a few people I want to thank, different groups of people who have got in touch, and I want to thank them but also share some messages to give examples of that, if that's okay.
[4:33] And I also want to share what we didn't put in the episode, which we deliberated on for a little bit, was after I said everything I said, I continued to cry for quite some time, so we had to stop.
[4:46] And I think most parents who have kids in a similar situation know that you don't get a lot of time to cry about it because you're moving on to the next challenge or the next.
[4:58] If things are really good, you really want to be in that moment with them and with the whole family.
[5:02] When things are tough, you don't really have a chance to cry.
[5:06] So for as long as this person's been alive or I haven't really cried.
[5:12] I remember receiving the diagnosis and my first thing was, okay, that's fine.
[5:16] We're going to do everything we can to support and be there.
[5:21] And I didn't cry then.
[5:22] And something about reading that letter, I felt like I cried very,
[5:28] many, many years worth of tears in that one.
[5:30] And then it was like half an hour afterwards where I was, my hands were shaking and I was kind of shaking.
[5:34] And then we attempted to have a conversation after it.
[5:38] Like on air.
[5:40] Yeah, we tried to, the plan was to round out the episode with our sort of reflections on it.
[5:44] But it just felt too big of a thing to ask you guys to jump into with me.
[5:49] Like it was just something I've been building up for for a long time.
[5:53] I couldn't look at you, both of you.
[5:54] I just couldn't look at anyone.
[5:55] I just wanted to start reading.
[5:57] But there was a part of that conversation, Josh, you said something that was so deeply moving and so important for me to hear.
[6:06] And so I'm going to share that as well at the end of this episode because I do want to share that because that was, and Ryan, you said great stuff as well.
[6:14] We're not going to play that though.
[6:18] If you give me another chance now, I reckon I could say something pretty fucking awesome.
[6:23] I've been writing a script.
[6:24] I've written an open letter to you guys.
[6:27] Okay.
[6:28] So there's a few different groups of people I want to thank here and I want to share a couple of messages I've got.
[6:32] I have...
[6:33] Like literally thousands and thousands.
[6:35] I think it's well over 3,500 messages to get back to.
[6:39] And I am going to get back to them all.
[6:41] I realise what I'm saying here is going to take some time, but I'm voice noting at the moment because that's the quickest way to do it.
[6:46] So apologies to people if it takes some time.
[6:48] But the stories people are sharing have been incredible.
[6:50] The first group of people I want to thank is the autistic community who have just been sending me the most amazing messages.
[6:56] I don't know.
[6:57] I wanted to choose one that really stood out to me and I couldn't.
[7:00] They're all brilliant.
[7:00] But I'm just going to read this one, this beautiful message from Chris, who obviously anyone whose messages I'm reading here, I have their permission to share.
[7:10] Some are anonymous, but Chris said go for it.
[7:13] So just a short message.
[7:15] Hi, my name is Chris.
[7:16] I'm a 17-year-old autistic kid.
[7:18] My dad says I'm not just a kid.
[7:19] I'm a whiz kid though.
[7:21] My mum and I listened to your letter together and she hugged me for the whole letter.
[7:25] It was a very long hug because it was a very long letter.
[7:28] But that was a good thing.
[7:29] She cried a lot.
[7:30] I didn't cry at all.
[7:32] But only because I knew mum was crying in a good way.
[7:35] I want you to know that mum is my best friend now.
[7:37] We love catching a train everywhere together.
[7:40] My daddy's great, but just so you know, your kids will probably be best friends with your mum when they're older.
[7:46] But definitely don't get offended because when they read your letter, they will know how much you love them.
[7:51] Wow.
[7:51] I'm Chris, the whiz kid.
[7:53] Thank you, Chris.
[7:54] That's amazing.
[7:55] So many wonderful messages.
[7:56] I mean, I could do a whole episode reading out these beautiful messages from...
[7:59] This incredible community.
[8:03] I want to thank the parents who, there was a lot of parents in similar situations who shared there was feelings of hope and there were stories of hope to other parents who shared the pain.
[8:13] I just want to read this one here.
[8:15] which probably speaks more to how hard it is.
[8:18] Dear Hugh, I've been a social worker for 35 years.
[8:21] I'm pretty good at supporting people in trauma.
[8:23] But in my own despair about the lack of understanding and the desperate attempts to get support for our daughter prior to her diagnosis of autism, I've felt lonelier and more isolated than I ever have before.
[8:34] Until your open letter.
[8:36] The pain of this experience has trumped major loss of family members, periods of uncertainty in life, worries about finances, relationship breakdowns.
[8:44] Nothing has come close.
[8:46] There have been times when I have wanted to scream that I'm fighting for my girl's life.
[8:49] Why doesn't anyone understand?
[8:51] And yet at the same time, I've felt unable to explain this adequately.
[8:56] My Ella is now 22.
[8:57] She finally received her diagnosis of autism and ADHD when she was 19 after four years of misdiagnosis.
[9:05] A fortune in psychiatry bills, addiction and hours and hours of bone-chilling meltdowns where she would break things, hurt herself and only want me in the room with her.
[9:14] Since this time, she has been insatiable about learning about her neurodiversity and seldom has a meltdown, manages social situations with more insight and proudly explains who she is and how she sees the world to anyone who will listen.
[9:28] It is not all a bed of roses and she is on NDIS, DSP and ongoing medical and psychological therapy, mostly to manage the trauma of the years she spent trying to get help.
[9:36] My prayer is that as the world changes to understand neurodiversity more, there will be fewer and fewer people who go through what she went through and schools and families and the world will become a safe space for them.
[9:48] So thank you so much for your acknowledgement.
[9:49] It meant a lot.
[9:50] I'll write about her story one day.
[9:51] For now, it remains a blur of pain experienced in full daylight and yet not seen by family, friends, colleagues or healthcare professionals.
[9:59] May this change for others.
[10:01] Much love, Associate Professor Carrie Lethberg.
[10:05] Wow.
[10:06] Um, this one here, um, just a beautiful message of hope and I just a quick one, but I love this.
[10:12] Um, Hey Hugh, I just listened to your letter.
[10:14] I just wanted to reach out and say, I remember the grief I was in those early years of navigating the hurricane of autism, the meltdowns, the sensory overload, the 3am starts.
[10:23] The future seemed like a nightmare.
[10:25] I remember the pain you are feeling.
[10:27] My beautiful son, Will, is now 17.
[10:30] He cooks dinner for us most nights, loves following recipe cards.
[10:33] He has learned to self-regulate.
[10:35] He goes into his room each night for a stim, which is like the thing that autistic people will do to settle themselves while listening to his favourite music.
[10:42] He has a gorgeous girlfriend.
[10:44] He keeps our whole household running on time.
[10:46] Can catch public transport anywhere independently.
[10:48] He's kind and gorgeous to be around.
[10:50] It gets easier, I promise.
[10:51] The future is bright.
[10:53] Alexis.
[10:55] Richard was just one of my hopes.
[10:57] What is it?
[10:58] It's not a surprise at all that you've got so many messages and particularly messages from people in the neurodiverse community.
[11:06] When you're reading these messages, how are you feeling?
[11:09] How are you feeling?
[11:10] the biggest feelings I've ever felt.
[11:12] Like I've never felt this.
[11:13] I've never felt anything like this before.
[11:14] But what is it?
[11:15] Like is it like?
[11:19] It depends on the message.
[11:19] Like that one I was read there, it just made me cry so much because I have so much fear for the future but I hear that and my gosh, I can't wait to have my child cook for me.
[11:30] So that's what it's all about.
[11:36] We finally got to the core of it.
[11:41] The Uber Eats is getting too expensive.
[11:44] I had this one I want to share very quickly from a guy called Josh Hanna, who is the assistant coach of the Queensland State of Origin team.
[11:49] Played a lot of rugby league himself.
[11:51] I know him really well through my work with Queensland.
[11:55] We spent a lot of time together in the State of Origin bubble and I had no idea we were going through the same thing because we didn't talk about it.
[12:01] But he said, mate, it's incredibly powerful when someone bears their soul as you have.
[12:05] Too many people see vulnerability as weakness.
[12:07] It's a bloody superpower.
[12:09] My wife reminds me of the time our boy was having an episode on a flight.
[12:12] My wife still vividly remembers how harrowing it felt for her and how helpless she felt for our boy.
[12:17] And when the plane finally landed and our boy could escape the plane, an elderly woman said to my wife, you need to nip that in the bud.
[12:24] Already distraught, those words and the lack of empathy crushed my wife.
[12:28] Keep up the good work, mate.
[12:31] That, I mean, that's what I was talking about.
[12:33] That's the exact thing.
[12:34] I mean, you just, I remember what it was like to be on a flight before we had kids.
[12:38] And if there's someone crying nearby, I was like, you're kidding me.
[12:42] But now I just, there's so much more going on that we don't understand.
[12:46] With kids we don't know, if it looks like they're behaving badly,
[12:51] There's a chance they are, but there's also a chance that they are neurodivergent and they're in a world of pain that you would never even imagine.
[12:56] So we just have to be kind to those who are trying to support them.
[13:00] What does that look like?
[13:03] Because I find that... Yeah, I can... Yeah.
[13:05] Like this morning, I was walking my kids to childcare and I saw some parents trying to get their child out of the house and into the car.
[13:14] And from what...
[13:15] I mean, I'm making a judgment call here, but it seemed to me exhibiting behaviors that I've seen in autistic children.
[13:24] Yeah.
[13:24] Yeah.
[13:25] And they looked, there was two parents trying to get this child into the car to go to primary school or childcare or whatever they're going.
[13:33] And I was like walking and I wanted, I was trying to think of what is the most empathetic thing I can do here.
[13:38] And so I was trying so hard to get their eyes to smile at them.
[13:42] And just as I got past the mum, I just said like a, like a really friendly good morning and like a big smile and kept walking.
[13:52] But I just wanted to be the least judgmental I could be and just the friendliest possible.
[13:56] But then I wondered, did I overdo it?
[13:59] And was I just like too bright?
[14:00] And it was like, what the fuck was that?
[14:03] Yeah, from this strange man.
[14:05] What was that, man?
[14:06] Smiling at me from 20 meters away and telling me how good the morning is.
[14:09] Doesn't he see how much I'm struggling?
[14:10] Yeah, no, I think what he did is great.
[14:12] The first thing to say is that every situation and child and parent is different.
[14:16] So it's very hard to answer that with an easier step-by-step guide on how to deal with that situation.
[14:23] I think provided your first thought is I'm going to approach this with care and empathy.
[14:27] That's like the energy and the mindset you take into that situation.
[14:32] I think about our lowest ever moment was outside the MCG.
[14:36] We tried to go to a game of football because they really wanted to and then we had to leave because there was a huge meltdown in the stands, which include, it was awful.
[14:45] And so it was very difficult, got them out of the ground.
[14:49] I managed to get the other sibling away through, literally getting Penny to drive in to pick them up and I couldn't get our child to move from the ground just outside the stadium.
[15:00] This happened before quarter time and we were still there two hours later when the crowd was leaving after the game because they wouldn't move and we're having the biggest meltdown.
[15:08] And I would say, I don't know, it was nearly a full house at the MCG.
[15:13] Maybe 30,000 people walked past us.
[15:16] While this was happening, maybe 20,000 walk past in the space of an hour after the game.
[15:20] And the looks and the people laughing, people... People laughing?
[15:27] Yeah, I just think it's just a child on the ground going absolutely berserk and people would put – because it was – I think also maybe it's because they don't know what to do.
[15:35] Yeah, I think people laugh in defence.
[15:37] Yeah.
[15:37] Not in defence, sorry.
[15:38] In – The reaction of like – Yeah, because they don't know what to do and laugh to us.
[15:42] But don't think about that, what that will look like to – But the shame that the child feels – because they see all the looks and they know that it's like what's going on there –
[15:53] And the shame buries them deeper in that meltdown as far in our experience this is.
[15:58] And so I would say if you don't feel confident engaging with the parent at that moment, just like literally look the other way as you walk past so the child doesn't think you're looking at them.
[16:10] It's almost like just pretend it's not happening.
[16:12] Yeah, but it's looking the other way.
[16:13] If you don't have it in you to be... Yep.
[16:15] And if you feel confident enough, I had actually had a message from a guy who said, you won't remember this.
[16:19] This is after the episode came and he said, hi, mate, you won't remember this, but I'm pretty sure I saw you with your child outside the MCG once in a pretty full-on moment.
[16:29] I don't know if you remember.
[16:29] I tried to do a really kind smile, but I hope it didn't look patronising.
[16:34] But I remembered it.
[16:35] He did like, the only way I can describe it was like, he did no lips.
[16:37] Like he made his lips disappear.
[16:39] You know, people go like...
[16:41] Like that, like he was like a very, he did no lips at me and I got what no lips meant.
[16:46] But we had hundreds of people judging me and judging my child.
[16:51] But I remember another guy patted me on the back just as like, because I was bending down.
[16:57] I was sort of like, yeah, I was bending down in front of my child trying to calm them and a guy patted me on the back and gave me a thumbs up.
[17:05] That was unbelievable.
[17:08] so they're just you can say you can smile them creepily like you do josh um but someone patting my back and give me a thumbs up um you could just say like you're doing a great job like and i understand the fear is like you don't want to come across like you're being sarcastic yeah yeah but i think if you just genuinely if you see a parent dealing with a meltdown you can just say you're doing a really great job and give them a thumbs up i just think that
[17:31] I don't know.
[17:32] That would mean the world to me.
[17:34] I mean, if someone did that to me, I'd just burst into tears as well.
[17:36] They would have two people not coping.
[17:39] This is maybe a stupid question.
[17:41] What about offering to help?
[17:43] Because I know that probably.
[17:44] Because the answer will be no, but that sentiment is huge.
[17:48] Yeah.
[17:48] It's the only thing I can do to help.
[17:49] Yeah, because I would feel more comfortable.
[17:51] I would feel strange going up to Australia and say you're doing a good job because I would feel like that would feel patronizing.
[17:58] I don't know how I could say that.
[17:59] Maybe there'd be a moment where it didn't.
[18:01] But I think saying, is there anything I can do to help?
[18:05] I feel like that feels more like something I would feel comfortable saying.
[18:09] Yeah.
[18:10] And so if that feels...
[18:11] I would try and do it in a way where the child isn't totally...
[18:15] I feel like the child might get a bit upset about that potentially.
[18:18] Just being like... Actually, no, it depends on the child.
[18:21] I can't say the certainty, but...
[18:24] Yeah, can I help at all?
[18:25] I think just a quick can I help at all would be huge.
[18:28] Yeah.
[18:29] Yeah.
[18:30] The other one that reached out, the other group reached out was siblings.
[18:34] One really heartbreaking one that just completely broke me.
[18:36] The other one was really beautiful.
[18:39] I'll start with a really beautiful one.
[18:41] Hi, Hugh.
[18:41] Just wanted to thank you for acknowledging the impact on siblings who grew up.
[18:44] with a brother or sister who has autism, so often we're overlooked when the family experience is considered and I wish there was more support for siblings.
[18:51] Growing up, I felt terribly alone, confused, and at times angry in my family dynamics.
[18:56] Now at 38 and working as an occupational therapist at Peninsula Health, I can see how much of my self-identity was shaped by my brother.
[19:03] He helped me find my purpose.
[19:04] He taught me gratitude, patience, and compassion.
[19:07] You described your lived experience and that of many others so well.
[19:11] Thank you from Nikki, which was great.
[19:13] I just want to share this one because it was very, yeah, I mean it was a heartbreaking story but it's real for, this is so real for so many people.
[19:20] So, hi Hugh, I wanted to say thank you for sharing your vulnerability.
[19:24] I'm not sure why but I felt some comfort hearing you share and maybe it's because my family has been seeking understanding for so many years.
[19:32] I'm so glad you're equipped with the information of knowing your child has autism and as a society we are learning to understand and have a more supportive and open mind.
[19:41] My brother suffered for many, many years and I did not know that he had autism until I read his coroner's report where it was noted in his medical history.
[19:49] Charles...
[19:52] Charles died by suicide last July.
[19:55] We had such little understanding of him.
[19:56] Our brother was kind, sensitive, struggled to fit in, was highly intelligent and loved music.
[20:02] I miss him every day.
[20:04] The rate of suicide for people on the spectrum is much higher, which I don't think will surprise anyone than typical people.
[20:11] Yeah.
[20:14] but I do want to finish on a really really positive one because I heard from so many neurotypical people and parents or as your friend Ryan refers to them
[20:24] Tipos.
[20:26] Yeah.
[20:27] A friend of mine who is neurodivergent, he refers to neurotypical people as tipos.
[20:32] When I heard that, I didn't want to be a tipo.
[20:37] Anyway, I was flooded with messages from tipos who basically had really heartwarming ideas about things they could do in their community to help people.
[20:47] autistic people or ADHD people to feel like the world is a kinder place.
[20:52] And in fact, Maddie, who works here at the Resilience Project, came up to me yesterday and said, I've got a show that she said completely separate of me, nothing to do with me at all, on our school WhatsApp group.
[21:04] They have a whole school WhatsApp group, first of all, which is for any parents out there.
[21:07] A whole school?
[21:09] Yes, we have a class WhatsApp group.
[21:11] How many people on that?
[21:12] uh there's like this is the parents of you about 30 parents or whatever right yeah um and the new school we're at it's like a very gee they're responsible they're with the way they use it they don't ever use it i have been to school before where it's like hey everyone what's everyone up to today i had i had cereal this morning for breakfast hands up if you're still in the group
[21:37] Anyway, so Maddie says to me, one of the parents had shared in the WhatsApp group a video link of the letter that I read and said, Hey everyone, I really think it would be good of us all to watch this and have a think about how we can support kids who are on the spectrum in the school and also the parents.
[21:56] And one of the comments here said, Hey, just reading some of the comments on this podcast in other forums.
[22:01] And a recurring one is about neurodivergent kids being left out of birthday parties.
[22:06] One parent was saying that their child was only invited once to a party during their whole primary schooling.
[22:11] That's why I think it's a great idea to support slash attend whole class get-togethers where possible and if you have capacity, whole class birthday parties, even into the older grades.
[22:21] My son had a whole class party in grade five at the swimming pool and was moved when a parent mentioned it was one of only a few parties their child had been invited to.
[22:31] Most of us wouldn't realise some kids are constantly missing out and that causes heartache.
[22:36] Larger parties don't have to be expensive.
[22:38] Kids are happy with a park or a pool.
[22:41] The bigger the better, I've found.
[22:42] Of course, this is in addition to being inclusive with smaller parties and in other ways as well.
[22:47] Sorry for a long message.
[22:48] Parent two, just to add to this, not being included isn't an unusual occurrence for our neurodivergent children.
[22:55] It happens all the time and in my experience increases as they get older.
[22:58] Many have challenges with anxiety and will decline invites, but the invite itself was the part that was noted and it was inclusive.
[23:06] It means the world to them.
[23:08] I could go on and on, but just to say every parent of every neurodivergent child or teen I know has experienced this and has had to sit with this pain.
[23:17] It makes you hurt so much because you know your child is wonderful and not being included by peers slash by school slash by family isn't something you can control.
[23:27] increasing understanding by talking to each other and by talking to all children about differences from an early age is where I think we can make change happen.
[23:35] That, I mean, there's just one school WhatsApp group happening that I just managed to hear, but to hear that parents out there, Tipos, Tipo parents are talking about how they can include everyone at the school, yeah.
[23:53] I can't believe it.
[23:54] I cannot believe it.
[23:56] It just makes me so incredibly happy.
[23:58] And we're lucky that our child goes to a school where they are all over the stuff already.
[24:05] But it's just hearing...
[24:09] parents talk about inclusivity like this is it's really beautiful yeah and I yeah I'm feeling emotions I've never felt my life but I feel like there's so much love I'm exploding love at the moment for um what this yeah for my child and for anyone's child um who's in a similar situation it's amazing beautiful
[24:34] Can we share, would it be okay if we share now the, just because I, yeah, it was a really, I was aware as I was doing it, I didn't look up at all from, I just couldn't look up from my letters as I was reading it.
[24:47] And then when I watched it back before we posted it, I saw Josh, you were in tears, there was a tear rolling down your face.
[24:52] And I hadn't thought to say to you, just a warning, this is going to be really raw.
[24:58] I think I could tell by your body language that this is going to be big.
[25:02] But as I said before, we did have a chat and I just wanted to play this little grab of what you said afterwards.
[25:09] And that tear that rolled down Josh's cheek, we have kept that and we are going to auction that off at the end of the year.
[25:15] So that tear is preserved.
[25:19] Josh's tear.
[25:19] Josh's tear.
[25:20] Patreon members can beat on the tear.
[25:23] Yes.
[25:24] Sorry, Hugh.
[25:26] If you drink it, you'll instantly think of good questions to ask.
[25:28] Yeah.
[25:29] It's pretty disgusting.
[25:31] It's a special elixir.
[25:34] Anyway, if we could play that grab now.
[25:35] This is after about 15 minutes into the post letter chat that we had.
[25:42] Well, firstly, more than anything, that was beautiful.
[25:46] I knew you wanted to talk about this for a while and I was very, very nervous for you.
[25:54] But,
[25:57] I am so, I said in awe before, but just so proud.
[26:03] I'm proud to be a brother and...
[26:10] like Ryan was saying how much he loves you and I love you and I love your children so much.
[26:18] And so just to do them justice the way you just did is pretty incredible because as the judgment thing of people judging you when you're out,
[26:38] at dealing with an impossible situation.
[26:44] I just, to have the emphasis put on the world around them rather than what is so often the case and is so, and I think would be in your mind that other people put the blame on this poor child, the way you wrote that and read it.
[27:07] it was just so beautiful to give your children the respect that, that they deserve for who they are.
[27:16] I find it very hard to, I don't want to make this about me at all.
[27:25] So I hope it's not, I hope this is what I'm about to say isn't, but I find it very hard to not feel like I am inadequate in the face of what you're dealing with and that I,
[27:37] I'm not a good enough brother in that space, but I don't really know what to do to help.
[27:47] If it makes you feel better, I don't know what to do most of the time.
[27:50] So like, I don't know how you're meant to know.
[27:53] Yeah.
[27:53] I've never once felt that.
[27:56] Oh, good.
[27:57] I'm glad.
[27:57] But you mentioned the time that they came in here and it was one of the worst days you've had as a family and we were able to help.
[28:05] It was being able to help.
[28:13] and feel like we could have made it a little bit better.
[28:16] It was one of the best days I've ever had.
[28:24] And so being able to be there and help in any way to make their life better, as well as yours and your family's life better is, I just wish I could do it more.
[28:39] Yeah.
[28:41] Ah.
[28:43] I don't think we need to say anything off the bat with that too.
[28:47] Two things I will say, I agree with you, but something about hearing you say how much you love my kids was, I can't know you do, but it was really beautiful.
[28:57] And I think someone out there who has a sibling who is parenting neurodivision kids, telling them that you love their kids, I think is a really powerful thing to do.
[29:08] Even though they know that you do, it's just nice to say it.
[29:10] Nice to hear it.
[29:11] Um, and since that episode, um, you're already doing incredible stuff with them, but like they're at your place on the weekend and spent the whole day there.
[29:20] And it was, um, they had the best time.
[29:25] Yeah.
[29:26] It was awesome.
[29:27] It was such a good day.
[29:28] Perfect.
[29:29] So more of that, please.
[29:32] Yep.
[29:32] So incredible.
[29:34] Like, it's just, I mean, I've gotten so many messages myself as well, like just from friends who wanted, you know, they probably felt like there are so many messages coming at you and the show that they've sent it to me to say that, can you please pass this on to Hugh?
[29:48] But I just wanted to set some expectations and just acknowledge the fact that you have time blindness, Hugh.
[29:59] Yeah.
[29:59] So we know this because we did an episode about your ADHD.
[30:04] And in that, you talked about the fact that you have time blindness.
[30:07] And in a beautiful video, like a selfie video that you recorded and put on Instagram, and you said it earlier in this episode as well, that you will get back to everyone.
[30:17] And that is incredible.
[30:18] It's so, so nice.
[30:20] Actually, I think, George, if we've got the clip just to remind people what you said.
[30:25] I just got back on social media and saw there was quite literally thousands and thousands of messages of love and support and people also sharing their journey with a similar thing.
[30:34] Some of the stories were both heartbreaking and heartwarming in the same breath.
[30:39] And I'm aware of what I'm saying here.
[30:41] But I am going to get back to everyone.
[30:44] It just might take a little bit of time.
[30:47] Great.
[30:47] It's amazing.
[30:49] Getting back to everyone is like a huge, huge, huge task.
[30:55] Yep.
[30:55] And I know... How big a task?
[30:57] Well, I just thought we'd run through some maths.
[31:01] Because I know I have a little bit of a sense of your brain, Hugh, because Jam, my partner, also has ADHD and she also has time blindness.
[31:09] And so a tip that I learned from someone, some ADHD meme channel or something said like, you know, when I say to Jam, so if I say to her, A tip-o tip.
[31:19] Yeah, tip-o tip.
[31:21] If I say to Jam, hey, we've got to leave in 10 minutes and she'll say, great, I'm just going to wash my hair.
[31:28] And I'll be like, really?
[31:29] I was like, you know, wash your hair if we're leaving in town.
[31:31] She's like, yeah, easy, not a problem.
[31:32] And she believes that it's easy.
[31:34] Yeah, I believe it too.
[31:36] Anyway, so I... Get a coffee as well.
[31:38] I'm sure.
[31:39] And so I just thought it would be helpful, not just for you, Hugh, but also for the people who have messaged you.
[31:46] Expecting a response.
[31:47] Expecting a response because you've told them that you will respond.
[31:49] So let's lay this out and explain what you are up against here.
[31:54] This is what you're facing.
[31:55] Yeah.
[31:56] So we have received, so you said how many messages do you think?
[31:59] It's up to about 3,500.
[32:00] So that's just on your Instagram?
[32:02] Yeah.
[32:03] Great.
[32:04] And there's WhatsApp and personal messages from friends I have included in that, which might be like a couple of hundred of WhatsApp and text messages.
[32:12] So all you haven't counted are the messages that have come through on the Imperfects Instagram.
[32:18] So there's thousands of those.
[32:19] Okay.
[32:20] And then there's the Resilience Project Facebook.
[32:23] Oh, yeah, I didn't think about that.
[32:24] Yeah, there's the Resilience Project LinkedIn, believe it or not.
[32:27] They're getting messages.
[32:28] Didn't know we had one, but good.
[32:30] Imperfects emails.
[32:31] Yeah.
[32:32] The Resilience Project emails.
[32:33] Yeah.
[32:34] The Imperfects Patreon, a bunch of them on there too.
[32:37] Imperfects YouTube comments and the Imperfects TikTok, which I know you're all over.
[32:41] So that's also, I think there's about 800 on that.
[32:45] So sort of all up, we're going to conservatively say there's 8,000.
[32:52] So, and you've said everyone and it's so generous, Hugh.
[32:56] So generous.
[32:56] Okay.
[32:57] So I was trying to think like how long, like how long is this going to actually take?
[33:01] Because I think this is important to lay it out for your time blindness brain.
[33:05] So,
[33:07] I was thinking like on average, like some are really long, some are really short.
[33:12] Let's say on average, you're going to maybe spend three to four minutes replying to each one if you're doing voice notes.
[33:18] See, in my head already, our maths are very different.
[33:21] In my head, I've like, it's probably 10 seconds per person.
[33:24] To read it and reply?
[33:26] Yeah, but if I'm not allowed, yeah, that's probably not going to work.
[33:29] It's unlikely, isn't it?
[33:31] Because the messages you read today probably went for about two to three minutes, even just reading it.
[33:35] And then you've got to think of what the reply is going to be.
[33:38] Yeah, and then respond.
[33:39] So they won't all be that long, obviously.
[33:41] So I've sort of accounted for maybe...
[33:43] Conservatively, three to four.
[33:44] Conservatively, I've accounted.
[33:45] And then it's like moving to the next message and stuff.
[33:47] So I've sort of thought five minutes all up.
[33:50] Finding the password for LinkedIn.
[33:51] Yeah.
[33:53] That's a thing.
[33:54] Do you have to dance for every TikTok reply?
[33:56] Do you have to dance while you're doing it?
[33:58] No, you don't.
[33:59] You don't.
[33:59] But even still, it's still going to take, I think, I'm going to say on average five minutes, okay?
[34:04] So that's 40,000 minutes, 8,000 times five minutes.
[34:11] Okay.
[34:11] And this is also, remember, conservatively 8,000 and conservatively five minutes.
[34:16] Okay.
[34:17] Yeah.
[34:17] Yeah.
[34:19] So what does that look like, practically speaking?
[34:21] It's hard to picture 8,000 minutes.
[34:22] It is.
[34:23] 40,000 minutes.
[34:23] What even is that?
[34:24] It's such an abstract number.
[34:26] It's 666.7 hours, which is...
[34:31] If you're thinking like work days, right?
[34:34] Cause I know you like love a nine to five.
[34:36] So if we're thinking about a work day being nine to five, eight hour work day, give yourself an hour of lunch.
[34:41] But if in the other seven hours- I'm just replying.
[34:43] Yeah, five minutes each and not stopping for anything.
[34:50] No other meetings, no other texts, nothing.
[34:54] If you do that for the five-day workweek, have the weekends off.
[34:58] Yeah, definitely.
[34:59] Like relax a bit.
[35:00] Sit your kids.
[35:02] Then we are looking at about 19 workweeks.
[35:10] That's if you do it Monday to Friday for seven hours each day.
[35:15] So that's six months.
[35:17] That's like basically a half year of work.
[35:20] Yeah, basically.
[35:22] And then so I thought like, okay, well, that's ridiculous.
[35:24] There's no way you can do that.
[35:26] That's impossible.
[35:28] Can I also just, something you haven't accounted for is people's responses and new messages coming through.
[35:34] We can't even take that into consideration yet because we need to deal with this 8,000 first.
[35:38] Okay.
[35:39] It's going to take six months of Monday to Friday, nine to a five.
[35:42] Basically, a little bit less, but yeah, basically.
[35:45] So then I thought like, well, okay, this is ridiculous.
[35:48] Let's think realistically here.
[35:49] Let's say like you might need one of those days off because you might be looking after the kids.
[35:54] So you can't actually work that day, you know?
[35:56] So let's say that for four days a week, you spend two hours a day.
[36:01] Yeah.
[36:01] That's pretty realistic.
[36:02] You could probably do that.
[36:03] That is actually what would happen because I've got like, we're flat out of the podcast.
[36:07] Yeah.
[36:08] Yeah.
[36:08] You've got other things.
[36:09] And it was in this project.
[36:09] So yeah, I've probably got a spare.
[36:12] What did you say?
[36:12] Two hours a day for four days a week.
[36:14] Oh, I don't have that spare.
[36:15] Yeah.
[36:16] Well, let's just, because I've got the numbers here, let's just even see what that would look like.
[36:19] Okay, yeah.
[36:20] Okay, so if you did that, you dedicated two hours a day, four hours a week replying to these incredible messages which you've promised.
[36:26] It's going to be a long time, isn't it?
[36:28] Yeah, it's going to be heaps.
[36:30] So that's...
[36:30] I know where you're headed.
[36:32] That's going to be 83 weeks, which is a year and a half.
[36:38] That's a year and a half.
[36:40] And we're talking conservatively here, remember?
[36:42] And then I was thinking, I was like, okay, well, a year and a half of work.
[36:45] I mean, that's a long time.
[36:46] But also then I was like, God, five minutes.
[36:48] Is that even realistic?
[36:50] Like some of these you have to really spend some time replying to and there's going to be a lot of long messages.
[36:55] And also throughout that year and a half, you're going to get all these new messages that Josh mentioned before.
[37:00] So let's actually bump up the per message reply to 10 minutes.
[37:03] That's probably a more realistic thing.
[37:05] Would you say?
[37:06] Yeah.
[37:07] I know I've got two hours spare in the week to do this.
[37:10] Oh, okay.
[37:10] So then we can multiply the total figure by four.
[37:12] Two hours per week?
[37:12] Yeah.
[37:13] Yeah.
[37:13] Oh, I'm going to need to speak to AI again because that changes everything.
[37:18] I mean, that's really, you're doing it to the end of time if you're doing that.
[37:21] I think you just multiply your final figure by four.
[37:24] Yeah, you do.
[37:24] Okay.
[37:25] Let's find out what that is.
[37:27] So 10 minutes per 8,000 meshes, obviously 80,000 minutes.
[37:31] What does that look like?
[37:33] Two hours per, I'm doing this four work days.
[37:38] Two hours a day.
[37:38] Two hours a day.
[37:40] This is bad news for my athletics career.
[37:44] It's three years.
[37:48] So if he does it with the actual time he's got, it's 12 years.
[37:52] 12 years.
[37:54] In 12 years' time, you will have got through the current messages.
[38:08] So that's assuming we get no more messages at all.
[38:13] And you stick to the routine.
[38:14] And you stick to the routine two hours a week, 12 years.
[38:19] What do you think about that here?
[38:21] Yeah.
[38:21] Still got time to wash your hair?
[38:22] I don't...
[38:26] I mean, I don't mean that.
[38:28] I don't say that to make it seem like you're knocking it.
[38:30] Because you obviously will, because you promised everyone that you will get back to everyone.
[38:33] I've got back to 100 so far, so that maybe knocks...
[38:35] Not much time off.
[38:36] No, well, not yet, but this is the pace that you're going to have to be going at.
[38:39] I think that's really good.
[38:41] But you actually can't take the foot off the accelerator ever.
[38:44] I'll be 56 years old.
[38:47] Yep.
[38:48] Yeah, and still reply.
[38:49] I mean, who knows what new platforms will have popped up by then as well.
[38:52] In 12 years' time.
[38:53] I'll be in people's lounge room, like, as a hologram, having a cup of tea with them.
[38:59] Yeah.
[39:00] That'll take a long time.
[39:01] Oh, no, I won't have to do it.
[39:01] That'll be a hologram.
[39:02] It's...
[39:04] Let's have a plan, baby.
[39:08] Let's think of another option if the hologram tech doesn't really reach what we're hoping it will reach.
[39:15] Anyway, I really just say all that to give everyone who's written a message a bit of perspective as to what you're up against here.
[39:22] Okay, I'm going to say now don't think I might get one in 10 years or 12 years because I think I might be able to get back to everyone.
[39:30] I think I understand.
[39:31] You'll get back to as many as you can.
[39:33] You're going to do your best.
[39:33] You're going to do your absolute best.
[39:36] My ADHD has now gone to a thing of complete overwhelm and I don't even want to start now.
[39:39] No, no, but I think we needed to have this chat and I appreciate it.
[39:45] I do it out of care.
[39:47] I do it out of absolute care because I don't want you to... Because otherwise you're promising people a response and they're waiting, they're refreshing, they're like scrolling down to refresh, refresh, refresh.
[39:56] Where's that message from here?
[39:57] He promised me.
[39:59] As Fred Durst from Limp Bizkit once said, did it all for the nookie?
[40:06] That's a really weird turn.
[40:10] My mouth is writing checks that my bottom, well, he said ass, but my ass can't.
[40:15] Cash?
[40:16] Cash, maybe?
[40:17] Yeah.
[40:18] Deposit?
[40:18] Yeah.
[40:19] I'm sure that's the best quote we could have found.
[40:20] Yeah, Dan.
[40:21] Throughout the history of quotes.
[40:26] I think that'll satiate everyone's want to hear from you.
[40:32] Just bulk send that out to everyone.
[40:36] A little Spotify wink.
[40:38] Okay.
[40:39] Well, thank you for that.
[40:41] That's been very helpful.
[40:42] Good luck.
[40:43] I think maybe realistically you could get back to all the free and paid Patreon members.
[40:49] I will get back to all the Patreon people because it's a very personal experience in there.
[40:52] But maybe we'll post this video on Instagram later.
[40:57] Yeah.
[40:57] So instead of a response, here's an excuse.
[41:00] Yeah.
[41:01] Yeah.
[41:01] But I think it's important for people to understand.
[41:04] Yeah.
[41:05] Unless they're happy to wait 12 years.
[41:06] Well, if you're happy to go for 12 years.
[41:08] I'm not.
[41:09] Yeah.
[41:10] What a turnaround.
[41:13] Flashback, half an hour.
[41:19] Thank you.
[41:20] Sincere thank you to everyone who has written the messages.
[41:23] I've never experienced anything like it and your love and support means everything and it is shared across the entire community of people living in this world.
[41:35] So, yeah, thank you.
[41:36] Well, we love you and we're very proud of you.
[41:38] Thank you.
[41:39] Love you.
[41:39] Love you guys too.
[41:44] Enjoyed this week's episode but want a little more?
[41:47] Then you might want to know that we have a brand new show called A Little More Imperfects over on Patreon.
[41:53] For a little bit of money, you'll get access to bonus episodes with the three of us every fortnight, early access to live events, plus other things that we haven't thought of yet, but when we do think of them, you'll get them.
[42:06] Visit patreon.com forward slash the imperfects.
[42:13] The End

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.