# Andy Lee - DO NOT Listen To This Episode!

An episode of [The Imperfects](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1476501557), 13 Sep 2026, 1 h 10 min.

Audio: https://enrichment.soundstack.com/4vjqq8/episode.flightcast.com/ygfy3j2v4g3lajc4jna133hn.mp3

When he was 15, Andy Lee’s mum forgot who he was. 💌 Join 9,400+ others in our newsletter community - https://www.theimperfects.com.au/sign-up-to-our-newsletter/ Given only two weeks to live, Andy tells Hugh, Ryan and Josh how this news impacted his family, impacted his childhood, and continues to impact his sense of self. And then, we’re going all the way back to the early days of Radio Karate, and Hamish & Andy. In a long overdue conversation (recorded, of course), Ryan and Andy chat about their own friendship dynamic and why they both felt like the odd one out. Getting down to business, Andy and Ryan discuss how a bunch of 20 year old guys made tough financial decisions while trying to remain mates, how they learnt to give constructive criticism to each other, and with the blessing of hindsight, how they feel about that time now. Andy, we’ve been waiting for this episode longer than a baker with his oven off. 0:00 – 2 years of secret vocal coaching 4:35 – HOW long for one cartoon episode? 5:48 – When Andy met Hamish (and Ryan) 9:39 – The impact of getting cancelled after 5 episodes 10:08 – The best advice Andy received 14:07 – Jealousy, Jealousy 20:25 – The Four Way Split of Hamish & Andy 23:42 – Should we be recording this? 25:10 – Social media has replaced the paparazzo 26:11 – Andy’s nude photo scandal 30:23 – Inspiration and renegotiation 36:55 – The Vulnerabilitea House 38:02 – When your mum is given two weeks to live 40:30 – Rapid deterioration and rush to hospital 43:28 – Taking on the parent role at 15 46:04 – Furious at the new normal 49:09 – Why “Don’t Worry, It’ll Be Fine” is the worst thing to say 54:36 – Andy’s Dad’s incredible sacrifice 58:20 – The Lee Gazette 1:00:50 – Why we should talk about will’s 🫖Imperfects episodes mentioned on this episode • Ryan Shelton - Shame, Jealousy & Purpose - https://bit.ly/4A230B5 📺 Things to watch • Institute of Sayings from Real Stories - https://bit.ly/4xBJHgq • Do Not Watch This Show! - https://bit.ly/4cAwlIZ • New Zealand Spy - https://bit.ly/4hdjPBI 🎧Things to listen to • Andy Lee on Falling Upwards with Kate Langbroek - https://bit.ly/4yucp30 🩷To host your own Vulnerabilitea House, purchase here - theimperfects.com.au/shop 🩵To purchase our journal (or your novel) My Imperfect Life, click here - theimperfects.com.au/shop 🩵To join our subscriber community, A Little More Imperfects, follow this link - patreon.com/theimperfects 🩷 AND you can subscribe to A Little More Imperfects through Apple Podcasts http://apple.co/theimperfects The Imperfects is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you’re struggling, please see a healthcare professional, or call lifeline on 13 11 14. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] My mum got given two weeks to live when I was 15.
[0:06] Andy Lee faced the realities of life and death at a young age.
[0:09] She forgot how to walk, how to talk, who we all were.
[0:13] I found a crazy meeting Sue, my mum, because she was so much like my mum before she got sick.
[0:19] That really makes me quite emotional, actually, to know that.
[0:23] Andy and Ryan reminisce on the early days of their careers.
[0:26] Haynes is like, I want you to meet this friend of mine, Andy, and I'm like, who the fuck is this guy?
[0:30] It's like, he's way too attractive.
[0:35] I just felt this enormous amount of, like, jealousy because you guys were having the career and the experience that I'd dreamed of.
[0:42] From my perspective with our company from the whole ride, it was three of you guys who went to school together and me.
[0:48] I'm never thinking that you felt like the odd one out.
[0:51] And what it's been like for him to live a public life.
[0:53] You got sent an email letting you know that, hey, just so you know, these photos are circulating.
[0:59] And it was you naked.
[1:00] Yeah.
[1:00] Jesus.
[1:01] And you're like, oh...
[1:03] Shit, grab yourself a cup.
[1:06] This is the Vulnerability House.
[1:13] This is long overdue and so, so exciting and meaningful to me.
[1:20] Was there ever a discussion as to who would do the VO for the start of it?
[1:25] No, I think I just grabbed it.
[1:28] I think I just did it.
[1:29] Okay, that's great.
[1:30] Thank you.
[1:30] And you would have been my choice with all due respect to the others.
[1:33] I just wondered whether there was a discussion.
[1:35] There wasn't, was there?
[1:37] No.
[1:38] No, I just thought I'd do it the best.
[1:45] I think that's fair.
[1:47] I think he sat back over the last eight years and watched Josh and I attempt to act at times and do things like that and go, it's probably not their strong suit.
[1:55] Look, you've got to know your strengths and weaknesses.
[1:58] And I'm really good at voiceovers.
[2:02] But you do an animation now, so you know a lot about the voice and character voices.
[2:10] I mean, when you watch it,
[2:12] you will go, really?
[2:14] But I had two years of vocal coaching before we started the animation.
[2:18] For the animation.
[2:19] Yeah.
[2:20] Wow.
[2:20] Because it is a very good... Because when I first watched it, I didn't know that you were doing the main character.
[2:27] And so when it started, I was like, that's Andy doing a character.
[2:32] I've never heard that really.
[2:34] Yeah.
[2:34] And so, I mean, people will watch it now and go, two years, really?
[2:39] So I don't actually like that information being out there.
[2:41] It's been, oh, no, I went in and just tried a voice one day and it stuck.
[2:44] For the record, you offered up that information.
[2:48] But what was fascinating about working with a vocal coach, which actually made me much better as a broadcaster, was as Australians we're very hard to teach accents too because we don't open our mouths very much.
[3:00] We don't move our tongues very much.
[3:04] That's your real voice.
[3:06] So that's why she gave me mouth exercises that I had to do and I'd wake up with a sore jaw and everything.
[3:15] To strengthen your To strengthen our tongues She said that the Scandinavians are the best at picking up accents Because they know exactly how to move their mouth and lips and tongue And we don't So what are you doing?
[3:27] What kind of exercises are you doing?
[3:29] Well, one was just your tongue around your mouth like this And that, I had to do that for days and days and days Really?
[3:36] But to do all the sounds, like it'd be hoop, hope, hop, harp, heap, heap, hoob, hob, hob, harb, haib, heeb, hook, hook, hook, and just get all the Christmas going.
[3:48] And then they'd be, you know, like hoop, and then you'd go hoop, hooped, hoped, hopped, harped, heaped, heaped, and then you'd add an S, hoosped, hoosped, hoosped, hasped, hoosped, heesped.
[3:58] And so you start hitting all the consonants of vowels much clearer.
[4:02] Mm-hmm.
[4:02] I found I was getting less tired during the 100 and during the podcast because I'm actually training and I can move my mouth quicker.
[4:11] Normally at the end of a record, my mum would text me and go, you were tired that episode.
[4:17] But I get less of that now because I actually am a bit fitter.
[4:20] I know it sounds weird.
[4:21] Fascinating.
[4:22] That's awesome.
[4:22] That's about 50.
[4:23] You're a method.
[4:24] Yeah, but after 20 years of broadcasting, I finally worked out how I can improve it a little bit.
[4:29] Wow.
[4:29] Yeah.
[4:30] Can't say this is exactly where I saw the episode go.
[4:35] Do you love doing it?
[4:36] I was lucky enough to have a tour of the studio the other day.
[4:38] Do you love doing it?
[4:39] Does it bring you so much happiness?
[4:41] Love it.
[4:42] Yeah.
[4:42] I mean, it's a long process.
[4:45] 14 months to make one episode.
[4:47] That's a bloody great show.
[4:48] Of 11 minutes.
[4:49] Rai was in just recently playing a couple of characters and was super fun.
[4:55] Vocal training for that?
[4:56] Yeah, I did three years though.
[4:59] Yeah.
[5:00] Yeah, so kids stuff.
[5:04] There's no hiding.
[5:06] What I love about kids is they either like something or they don't.
[5:09] You give them something to eat, they spit it out, or they go, can I have more?
[5:13] The politeness hasn't really entered the sphere of their reactions.
[5:19] And so that's what's great about testing this.
[5:22] And you do something and you see them cackling along or they're scared to keep going because it's do not watch this or do not turn the page.
[5:29] And, you know, it is manipulation, which is always fun.
[5:35] But I think, well, Hamish and I talk about it with comedy.
[5:38] Like comedy is manipulation.
[5:39] We are going to manipulate someone to laugh.
[5:41] Like it's an emotional manipulation.
[5:43] Hopefully it's for good, not for evil.
[5:46] And I just love that raw feedback from an animation perspective.
[5:50] Yeah.
[5:51] Well, you can see as an adult watching it, you can see the care that's gone into Mike.
[5:54] It's just brilliant.
[5:54] Thank you, mate.
[5:56] List off all the things he's done.
[5:58] Like we've got to remind everyone.
[6:00] Well, can I start the story very quickly?
[6:01] I feel like everyone knows Andy Lee.
[6:03] I feel like that it doesn't.
[6:04] I know, but there's so many things.
[6:06] It's like it's a good reminder.
[6:07] Well, to be honest, I don't have a bio in front of me.
[6:10] I was trying to skirt around that bit.
[6:12] This is Andy Lee from Hamish and Andy.
[6:15] But just a quick story before we get into it.
[6:17] So the other day, and there was a point to this story, so we had a tradie come around the other day, and I was on the phone to him, never met him before, and we were trying to work out when he could come over and when I was going to be there.
[6:27] And we were really struggling to find a time in my calendar.
[6:28] And he said to me, never met him before, and he said, God, mate, trying to find time in your calendar is like trying to find a needle in a bee stack.
[6:35] And he kind of laughed a bit and as if in knowingly, like I should know what that was.
[6:39] And I was a bit confused.
[6:39] I was like, God, what weird saying that is.
[6:41] Didn't hear much of it.
[6:42] He comes over a few days later and he's in our place.
[6:46] So I was a bit late.
[6:46] We weren't surprised anyone.
[6:47] He was waiting out in the front and I got there.
[6:49] I was like, oh, sorry.
[6:50] And he goes, mate, I've been waiting longer than a baker with the oven turned off.
[6:54] And I went, I was like, what the fuck?
[6:56] What is going on here?
[6:57] And then I just didn't really, I was just confused.
[7:00] He was looking at me like, you've got to know what I'm saying.
[7:02] Yeah.
[7:02] And you're not a fan of our early work.
[7:04] Well, I was a huge fan of our early work.
[7:06] I didn't remember that one exactly.
[7:08] But for those people who were as confused as I were, so he was referencing and he told me about it and I went and watched it.
[7:13] It was a skit that you and Ryan and Hamish and Whipper did at least 20 years ago, probably one of your earlier bits of work.
[7:21] 2004.
[7:23] It is brilliant.
[7:25] So it's the Institute of Science, basically.
[7:28] I mean, you guys can probably describe it.
[7:29] Well, yeah.
[7:31] I mean, yeah, it was like a show called Real Stories.
[7:33] It was our first show that we made, like a full show that we made, and we did it with Roving, so like Roves Production Company.
[7:43] But it was our first full thing.
[7:44] We were so naive, so young, and each episode had like three to four fake current affair stories, I guess.
[7:52] And this one was a bit like a sort of a feature, like mockumentary about the Institute of Sayings.
[7:59] And we were all like- And where sayings come from.
[8:01] Yeah, where sayings come from.
[8:02] And you were both brilliant in it.
[8:03] Like so funny.
[8:05] Anyway, I watched it and I just wanted to say, I think that it just made me think about- I think I was playing a really low voice, slick guy in that whole, yeah, that whole episode.
[8:12] No voice training.
[8:15] We did, we did, we probably played 30 characters each in that show.
[8:18] We did no vocal training.
[8:21] No acting training either.
[8:22] We did turn wigs around a lot.
[8:24] Yeah, we ran out of a wig budget, so we just wore them backwards.
[8:30] But it was amazing.
[8:31] There's something in that.
[8:33] I think it's some of our funniest stuff, that show.
[8:36] Certainly for me, I think it's the funniest things we've been in and we've written.
[8:40] And I think it is that freedom.
[8:41] Like when people are naive, you take bigger risks.
[8:47] I certainly took far bigger risks back then.
[8:49] like earlier in my career than I do now because you think, oh, is this going to affect the brand?
[8:53] What am I protecting?
[8:54] All that stuff.
[8:55] And you know, you also know how hard things are so you don't dive in.
[8:58] Yeah.
[9:00] There's less to lose.
[9:01] There's less, yeah.
[9:01] Well, there's kind of zero to lose except maybe embarrassment is on the table if it doesn't go well.
[9:07] But if no one watches it, no one cares anyway.
[9:09] So, I mean, I remember like when we, the very, very first show that we worked on together, which was called Hamish and Andy, it was the Channel 7 show that we didn't produce or anything, but Hamish and Andy ended up hosting it.
[9:21] And it was a big sort of shiny Channel 7 show and it didn't work out, got kind of like, Channel 7 cancelled it after how many episodes?
[9:29] Five, yeah.
[9:29] Five episodes.
[9:30] And I was writing on it and I genuinely remember thinking, I mean, that didn't hit me as hard as it hit Ames Dandy because they were out front, but I just thought, I genuinely thought, this is how naive I was, I genuinely thought, oh, that's totally fine.
[9:43] We'll just get another show.
[9:44] Exactly right.
[9:45] That's how we felt.
[9:46] Yeah.
[9:46] The thing I was going to ask you, like watching that skit, it made me realise how long you guys have been doing what you do for.
[9:52] And I just wondered if you ever, I know for you guys it's about making people laugh, but when you also think about it, like you guys have been,
[9:58] spreading joy and happiness across Australia or around the world on a scale.
[10:05] I don't think anyone's ever really done it before.
[10:06] Do you ever feel proud about that?
[10:08] Do you ever think about, gosh, that's a really cool thing we're doing or is it just always about this is my couple of life?
[10:13] Yeah.
[10:14] Hame's better at it than me at stopping and taking it in.
[10:19] Ryan knows me.
[10:20] I'm not a stop and take it in kind of guy that often.
[10:23] You're a what's next guy.
[10:24] Yeah, yeah.
[10:25] So, and that's a, that's, that's a fault of mine.
[10:28] Like in, to use the radio terms, like we'd have something that was extremely successful in a moment on radio, like something unbelievable.
[10:36] And, you know, producing everything, you'd sell it, get to the ad break and people would celebrate and go, yeah.
[10:42] And I would walk out to the airlock and go, it was great.
[10:46] You know what we should have done?
[10:48] And Sam Kavanagh, who's a fantastic producer and friend of Ryan and I's, he was our producer at the time and he pulled me aside and said, hey, can you stop that?
[10:58] Can you give everybody the win?
[10:59] I was like, oh no, I was, I was celebrating the win.
[11:01] And he's like, yeah, but just don't, don't even bother with feedback.
[11:03] Don't even bother with the what's next.
[11:05] Enjoy it.
[11:07] Jot it down.
[11:08] If you think it's important to reflect on tomorrow, we'll do that.
[11:11] But just, can you just give us the moment?
[11:13] And it was such a nice, brave conversation for him to have.
[11:17] And I've had a number of those in my careers where just really great mentors pull me aside and go, hey, could you approach it this way?
[11:25] And you try it and, to be honest, the next day I'd look at it and go, I don't need to bring this up, you know.
[11:31] And it's a good way to kind of change my behaviour.
[11:33] But if I didn't have a strong producer and a strong mentor in Sam, I probably wouldn't have changed that behaviour.
[11:41] And then I have to remind myself to keep doing that across the journey with all the things that we do.
[11:47] Because I love the journey.
[11:49] I actually...
[11:50] I don't care about the outcome nearly as much.
[11:51] I love it.
[11:52] It makes you feel good.
[11:52] There's ego and stuff.
[11:53] But I just love making things, as Fry knows, and I love them being perfect.
[11:58] And if we're happy, I'm like, that job's done if we were happy when it's out there.
[12:02] Because all the other stuff's out of control.
[12:05] I think...
[12:06] No, I think over the years, because for those who don't know, we've worked on so many things together, you and I.
[12:12] All the Hamish and Andy Gap years and True Story and Perfect Holiday, that was a good 10 years of late night edits together.
[12:20] Yes.
[12:21] And I reckon some of the best...
[12:24] like moments that you and I have had together and most kind of joyous, like happy moments is like at 2am in an edit suite when we finally like nailed whatever editing issue we had.
[12:37] Yeah.
[12:37] And like the, you know, that's when I reckon I've seen you at your most like happy.
[12:42] Yeah.
[12:43] Is that fair to say?
[12:44] Yeah.
[12:45] In our relationship.
[12:46] Yeah, absolutely.
[12:47] And I loved it.
[12:48] And I still love it.
[12:49] Yeah.
[12:51] And you and I, that's where we got the most giggles.
[12:54] Yeah.
[12:55] So good.
[12:55] And it was really collaborative.
[12:57] And we worked on the collaborative side of it.
[12:59] Like, people go, how can you do that for so long?
[13:03] It's like, it's not without work.
[13:04] It's not without getting...
[13:06] business coaches in to work out our relationship and work out how we get the best out of each other.
[13:11] But the respect was absolutely there the whole time.
[13:16] Yeah.
[13:17] And then we so knew each other's strengths so much.
[13:20] So basically you revert the same way as you did with the opening of this vulnerability tea house is you go, okay, well, this is Rice Field.
[13:30] You know, he's the sync hawk.
[13:33] Anything that might be vaguely out of sync, if the audio is out of sync with the lips.
[13:36] That's so true.
[13:37] I've never met anyone that can pick a frame out like I can.
[13:40] Yeah, so basically, Rog, I think that's out of sync, and I'll go, he'll be right.
[13:45] I don't need to challenge this.
[13:46] I'll let them work that out.
[13:47] I don't need to expend any of my energy maybe even looking at that.
[13:50] And so that's what a great partnership's about.
[13:53] It was such a niche superpower.
[13:54] Just so you know, you've got more strengths than just that.
[13:59] And I didn't do much, but we brought him in for that third pass of the audio sweetened.
[14:05] And he could pick out the one or two frames and then he could go home.
[14:09] I can do it now.
[14:10] Shit!
[14:14] Hi, it's Ryan from The Imperfects, and I'm reaching out to you now because we need your help, gosh darn it.
[14:21] What?
[14:21] Hang on, why do we need?
[14:22] Sorry, no, I'm just making a plea to the listeners and viewers to ask them to subscribe to the show in whichever way they see fit, because it really helps.
[14:32] The more subscribers, the better we can make this show, am I right?
[14:35] Yeah, but I don't think we need to...
[14:36] I think we could just ask them politely.
[14:38] Yeah, but if I use the emotional music...
[14:40] I think the music's a bit much.
[14:41] Is it?
[14:42] Who's playing that music?
[14:43] Doesn't matter who's playing the music.
[14:44] The important thing is we're pulling at the heartstrings and asking them to do us a solid.
[14:49] Could we not just ask them straight?
[14:52] It'd really help us if you guys subscribed because we would be able to make more of the show and make the show better.
[14:58] Oh, and not use emotional manipulation.
[15:00] Yeah.
[15:00] Yeah, I reckon.
[15:01] We can give it a go, but I doubt it'll work.
[15:04] I feel like it would be remiss of us not to ask you about, I mean, we'll get to the cards in a second, but we've had, you know, Ryan's spoken on this show years ago about how you felt being friends with Hamish and then Hamish and Andy take off and become the biggest thing in the country.
[15:19] And how you felt off the side and Hamish spoke about how he felt.
[15:22] But I'd love to hear your sort of experience of it coming into this group, this friendship group, and how it worked with the friendship side of things with Ryan and knowing that you guys are being huge.
[15:37] I'm so keen to hear your side of how it felt.
[15:40] Yeah, when I haven't listened to anything that you have said about it.
[15:46] It's really good.
[15:47] Quite purposefully.
[15:50] I feel like I didn't know.
[15:53] I didn't know Ryan was feeling that.
[15:55] Um, so in the, in, in what Hames talked about and you've talked about it, I'd like, Oh, I feel sad that you felt like that.
[16:03] Just for, just for reference.
[16:05] So you were talking about how you felt quite jealous saying.
[16:07] Yeah, it was, it was, it was when Hames and I were, you know, went to high school together and then in uni we, we, Hames, you met Hamish and then you guys became friends.
[16:17] Hamish, there was a, we met at TGI Fridays on Chapel street.
[16:22] Hames was like, I want you to meet this friend of mine, Andy.
[16:24] And I'm like.
[16:24] Who the fuck is this guy?
[16:27] It's like, he's way too attractive.
[16:31] And he plays hockey?
[16:33] Who plays hockey?
[16:34] Field hockey.
[16:35] Not the cool one.
[16:36] Not the cool one.
[16:37] And anyway, but then we became friends and then we started making sketches together.
[16:41] We did a show on like community television and it was great.
[16:45] But then like you and Hames formed this like bond, which sort of you did a comedy festival show and then you started doing radio together and that kind of obviously did what it did.
[16:57] And I just felt this enormous amount of like jealousy because you guys were having the career and the experience that I dreamed of.
[17:05] And I was too young to really have any perspective or, you know, think anything but.
[17:12] But I'm entitled to that as well because I was friends with Hamish first.
[17:17] Now with clarity and therapy and everything, I know that like I wasn't entitled to anything.
[17:22] And if I wanted a career, I should just go and get one.
[17:24] Yeah.
[17:25] Basically.
[17:25] Yeah.
[17:26] But the thing that I listened to, who told me?
[17:29] Someone told me about, because you were on No Filter with Kate Langbrook.
[17:33] Yes.
[17:34] Yeah, she brought it up.
[17:35] And she brought it up.
[17:36] And it was actually really comforting because not that I ever thought that you thought anything bad or did anything intentionally bad or anything.
[17:45] But the perspective I hadn't thought about until I listened to that was that,
[17:50] you didn't know Hamish and my past.
[17:54] Nah.
[17:54] Like you didn't, you just met Hamish as a friend.
[17:57] You just met this guy and he has another friend like everyone does.
[18:00] Yeah.
[18:01] You weren't to know that I, him and I were like this, like, well, not even that, but that we were like, had, and we didn't even have dreams actually of like being a duo.
[18:11] Like it was no future where I believe that Hamish and I would become anything like what you guys did.
[18:19] Yeah.
[18:19] Yeah.
[18:20] And so, but in my mind, I sort of at the time carried this sense of like, this is fucked.
[18:26] Like, this is bullshit.
[18:27] It was like so me, me, me.
[18:30] But it was really comforting to sort of have that perspective that you had no idea.
[18:35] Yeah.
[18:36] I knew that you guys were all friends.
[18:38] Like, and I've always tried to be really respectful of that.
[18:40] The hardest part for me, people might know, is that I...
[18:43] I said to him, we should do this.
[18:45] We're having a lot of fun.
[18:45] We should do this.
[18:46] And he went, oh, I've got a friend at school that I kind of did this with.
[18:49] It would be great to include him.
[18:50] And I sort of pinky promised him in year nine.
[18:53] And I was like, okay, cool.
[18:54] Yeah, I've got a mate called Dunk who I do this as well.
[18:57] So we'll just make a four-pack and then let's find someone to film it, which was Tim.
[19:01] This was Tim Bartley who we were at school with, yeah.
[19:03] And the part where Dunk is,
[19:08] kind of left, came about... Who was my best friend at kinder, by the way, just for extra confidence.
[19:12] Was he really?
[19:13] No way.
[19:14] I'm guessing he's a fan of Duncan Cowan.
[19:16] We actually met and we discussed percentages.
[19:18] It was really gross.
[19:20] It was really weird.
[19:21] That was sort of the moment where it started becoming... A business.
[19:23] A business and serious.
[19:25] And...
[19:26] And people were saying what each other's percentages should be.
[19:29] Yeah.
[19:29] Oh, God.
[19:30] And the fact that Dunk's just a legend but also didn't really have a heart in it.
[19:37] Like I've talked about it with Dunk since.
[19:38] I'm still best mates with Dunk.
[19:40] He was like, okay, well...
[19:42] You know, he made the breakup so easy.
[19:46] Yeah.
[19:47] But that was the only emotional part for me where I'm like, oh, this is really difficult.
[19:51] Yeah.
[19:52] And then from my perspective with our company from the whole ride, it was three of you guys who went to school together and me.
[19:58] Yeah.
[19:59] It's so fascinating because I, of course, because I'm so stuck in my own shit.
[20:05] I'm never thinking that.
[20:06] Yeah.
[20:06] Because you carry yourself with so much confidence.
[20:09] You are very confident.
[20:10] And from at least from the outside, it seems very self assured and comfortable in your own skin.
[20:17] And so I would never have thought that you felt like the odd one out, even though that makes so much sense.
[20:23] Yeah, and so then for the rest of the business life, which still goes on, I never weighed into any politics between the four of us because I knew your friendships.
[20:38] The friendships, your friendships and my individual friendships became more important.
[20:42] So if we're ever having someone going, should they get this much?
[20:46] I was like, doesn't matter.
[20:48] None of that's going to matter.
[20:51] For our company, it was four-way split.
[20:52] Hamish, Ryan, Tim, and myself, right?
[20:56] And that was so beautiful because it doesn't bring in any worry about what's going on.
[21:03] And it can breed resentment and go, oh, gosh, hang on, but Hamish and I are out here doing this.
[21:08] Did you ever think that?
[21:09] At times.
[21:10] But, like, I love, if this is our band, I love the music.
[21:17] I love getting to play the gigs.
[21:20] Why would I fuck with that?
[21:22] Like if I come in and go, you know what, Hamish and I are a bit more at the front.
[21:27] I think we should have 70% and you guys have 30%.
[21:30] Immediately you're risking the environment you love.
[21:34] Mm-hmm.
[21:35] And so you've got to be at peace with that for the greater good.
[21:39] And you go, why am I doing it?
[21:40] If you're doing it just for money, then you should have those conversations.
[21:43] We were never doing it for money.
[21:45] No.
[21:46] We were really fortunate.
[21:49] And that's how I reconcile that pretty quickly in my head with a lot of my ventures.
[21:55] It's like if the playground's fun and you want to be in there, what elements of it are you willing to risk that?
[22:04] for what aspect, whether it's monetary or whether it's, yeah.
[22:07] So that's how I would kind of reconcile that in my brain.
[22:12] Yeah, it's interesting.
[22:13] I mean, we really talked about it.
[22:14] But it's very rare four people do the same thing at the same time.
[22:18] It just doesn't happen.
[22:20] And so there'll be, there's times where I'm off just, this is Ryan and I's bit of the project to do and you've got to be collaborative and you want that to be together, doing something together.
[22:30] So you don't want someone sitting there going, hang about, he's getting more than me.
[22:34] I'm not getting, you know.
[22:36] And then Tim and I, and then it might be us three and then it might be Haym and I or Haym, Ryan and I and the creative while Tim sits out.
[22:42] That really was great the way we managed to massage all that.
[22:46] Yeah.
[22:47] And then you would have times, the three of you, where I wouldn't be involved.
[22:51] Rarely.
[22:52] Rarely, but yeah.
[22:54] Yeah, and that is a challenge emotionally for guys in their early 20s.
[23:02] Yeah.
[23:03] And you guys are far more in touch with your emotions than I definitely was at the time and you still are.
[23:10] more yeah i don't know if i was at the time though to be honest i don't think i don't think at the time i don't really think i really properly was until yeah my 30s like mid 30s probably like especially when we're starting i had no ability to talk about anything i still kind of struggle with it now unless i'm doing this podcast to be honest yeah
[23:30] And so it's like it's kind of nice to be able to talk to you about this, even though it's kind of weird that we haven't like talked about it in detail.
[23:38] Yeah.
[23:38] But this is kind of often the reason why I like doing this and getting on friends because we can like talk about things that would be kind of weird if we caught up and just talked about out of nowhere.
[23:46] Yes.
[23:47] But I feel the opposite.
[23:48] Yeah.
[23:49] Yeah.
[23:49] I feel we don't need a podcast to talk about this stuff.
[23:53] That's wrong.
[23:56] So I suppose that's what I felt is my instant reaction about Rye talking about this publicly is I'm like, why would you do that?
[24:06] Yeah, that's interesting.
[24:06] We haven't talked about this.
[24:08] Like we should talk about this, shouldn't we?
[24:12] Because then we can get everyone's perspective before we go out there.
[24:16] Not in a way where I'm like, what the fuck are you doing, Rye?
[24:19] But that would have been my instant reaction.
[24:21] Yeah.
[24:22] Yeah.
[24:22] I did think that.
[24:23] I definitely did think that at the time.
[24:24] And it is a weird part of this podcast, to be honest, that it's like –
[24:29] trying to find the line of like, am I just talking about this because it's going to be like content or is it, is this necessary to talk about this publicly?
[24:39] And, and particularly when there are only really when there are other people involved.
[24:44] Yeah.
[24:45] And I did speak, I spoke to you before I did it just to let you know and get your permission really.
[24:49] Yeah.
[24:49] Or your blessing, which you gave.
[24:52] Yeah.
[24:52] But, but, but yeah, I, I can understand that it's, it's a weird, it's a weird thing.
[24:58] And I think I was, I don't, the irony of it is I don't think I ever would have spoken to even Hamish about it had I not wanted to talk about it on the podcast.
[25:06] Yeah.
[25:06] And I understand that.
[25:07] Yeah.
[25:08] It's an interesting world you guys have created.
[25:11] Yeah.
[25:12] Where I think there can be a falsehood in what has been solved just by talking about it.
[25:17] I love what you guys are doing, encouraging people to talk about things.
[25:20] But I think the next step has to be, yeah, that's really hard.
[25:25] How do I do that in my own way, my own private way with the people that are really important to me?
[25:29] Yeah.
[25:30] And that's normally where I see it.
[25:32] But I feel like there's...
[25:35] a really fine line between reflecting and wallowing.
[25:39] And I'm not a wallower.
[25:41] No.
[25:41] Yeah.
[25:41] Oh, yeah.
[25:42] I was just going to say, I find when I listen to other shows that I have a, because I guess there's two aspects to that.
[25:48] There's the guest, but there's also the person listening who feels like that can take something away.
[25:52] So often I feel like I listen to a show and I'm like, that's going to be me.
[25:55] I'm going to change now.
[25:56] And then like two weeks later, the lesson wears off.
[25:59] The hard work is how you apply some of this stuff to your own life, I think, and have genuine, proper, long-term reflection and introspection.
[26:07] Yeah.
[26:08] Which is what is interesting about social media versus like paparazzi.
[26:13] Paparazzi's dying, which I think is great.
[26:15] Is it really?
[26:15] Yeah.
[26:15] Yeah.
[26:16] It's really like in Australia particularly, it's fallen off a cliff.
[26:19] They can't afford to – they were run by glossy magazines and now online.
[26:24] They pay a lot of money for photos.
[26:26] Yeah.
[26:28] And I experienced that most when I was with a high-profile person in Megan back in the day.
[26:33] But they can't afford, like, Woman's Day is not going to pay 80 grand for a photo anymore.
[26:38] They don't sell enough.
[26:39] And so that diminishes.
[26:41] But also social media comes along and we get access to these people.
[26:45] The paparazzi were serving people's thirst for, I wonder what they're like in their own worlds.
[26:51] Social media comes along and gives you exactly what they're like in their own worlds.
[26:55] But now the creators are actually putting out what they would think you'd like to think their lives are in their own world.
[27:03] It's curated, yeah.
[27:05] So, yeah, it's a very interesting part we're at at the moment with it all.
[27:09] The moment that really spooked me for you was when you and Megan were away.
[27:14] I think you're in Bali or something at a really private hotel resort.
[27:21] And you got sent an email after the thing from someone letting you know that, hey, just so you know, these photos are circulating.
[27:29] And it was you naked on the balcony of your hotel room.
[27:34] I was in an outdoor shower in a private villa.
[27:37] In Ubud, Bali, with a jungle across the way.
[27:41] Yeah.
[27:41] And a photographer had flown there and hiked through the jungle and taken photos of us.
[27:47] And I got an email saying, just so you know, these photos are for sale now.
[27:53] Jesus.
[27:54] And you're like, oh, shit.
[27:56] Now, my first thing was like- And you were young then.
[27:59] That was a long time ago.
[28:00] Yeah.
[28:00] Yeah.
[28:01] So probably mid-27, 28 maybe.
[28:02] Yeah.
[28:05] First thing you're embarrassed about your body, you're like, oh, my God, my pigness is out there.
[28:08] You're like, what was I doing?
[28:10] You know, like all those type of things.
[28:12] And you know that they can't print them with full nudity.
[28:18] But there was 1,800 outlets that it gets sent to to be able to buy it.
[28:24] So it's not like just one was like, it just goes out to, you know, the progress leader of Camberwell.
[28:30] Local boy.
[28:33] We got local boy news.
[28:35] Local boy done real good.
[28:37] So they are all part of, you know, an image collective.
[28:43] It's about that.
[28:44] Yeah.
[28:44] Yeah.
[28:45] And so they can all log on.
[28:47] So the email can go around going, hey, you don't have to buy this to see it.
[28:51] You can all go around.
[28:52] You can just log on and see it.
[28:54] So what happens there?
[28:55] What did you do?
[28:56] Nothing.
[28:56] You can't do anything.
[28:58] So is this person just letting you know?
[28:59] Just so you know, nude photos of you will come out.
[29:01] No, they did come out.
[29:02] They all printed.
[29:02] I can't remember.
[29:03] New idea.
[29:03] What was that?
[29:04] They were printed a few.
[29:05] Really?
[29:05] Yeah, and they just had that Too Rude sticker.
[29:08] You know that Too Rude?
[29:09] Thankfully, Too Rude's a lot of letters.
[29:11] So it made me... Oh, my God.
[29:18] So I think that was generous.
[29:19] How did he even get through the door?
[29:22] But definitely a moment of, oh, okay, this is awful, but you realise what you can control and can't control and it's a good lesson.
[29:34] Thankfully, back in the day, airlines would check ticketing and know what celebrities would go on and then leak that.
[29:44] It was this great exchange of information to be able to get people to follow people to different areas.
[29:48] It just...
[29:49] They can't afford it anymore, which is great, but certainly felt vulnerable at the time.
[29:54] Totally.
[29:55] Yeah.
[29:55] I know we have to get to these, but I want to ask a question about what we've been talking about, and it's a little bit not to... My penis?
[30:02] Yeah, yeah.
[30:05] So how many letters actually?
[30:08] How far into two?
[30:12] Oh, R?
[30:13] Do you?
[30:13] What are we... No.
[30:17] I think it's really sort of interesting and brave of you guys to speak a bit about the relationship because I think it's really brilliant the way that you had the initial, you guys as a group, but like, not, we'll split it equally.
[30:29] And I think, I hope I'm not sharing too much from our perspective, but...
[30:33] I remember Ryan early on when Bridge was joining the company and was going to become a co-owner with us, it was like the discussion that came, and I have to give you credit because it came from you, of like, no, it needs to be an even split.
[30:46] If we're going to do things, we do it evenly, which is the greatest basis to have a company.
[30:51] But I think...
[30:52] There's also, there's not just money when you're being successful.
[30:56] And I think like Hamish and Andy and you guys, there's awards and there's success and there's sort of relevance and all that kind of stuff.
[31:04] Is it hard when you're all working together and you all recognize each other's individual talents, but to then being in a public sphere, being recognized and getting more credit than everyone else in the team?
[31:17] Is that?
[31:17] That's great.
[31:20] And also you managed to negotiate 51-49 against Hamish.
[31:23] Exactly.
[31:24] And look, I should point out that within those deals, like as far as four-way split, Hamish and I could then do exclusivity deals with a network or something like that that is separate because that was about the Hamish Nanny performer.
[31:38] It's not like every dollar we're earning is fielding back.
[31:40] I don't want people to walk away thinking that that's the case.
[31:42] That would have been good.
[31:43] Yeah.
[31:45] But from a company perspective and ownership of what we were creating, those shows are co-owned evenly by all of us and the trailing income, et cetera.
[31:56] Look, not really.
[31:59] I never really thought about it.
[32:00] Yeah.
[32:01] I hoped that we thanked everyone that worked with us in our own way.
[32:09] But, yeah, it never felt like...
[32:12] oh, gosh, aren't I lucky to be out here?
[32:14] I felt like I'd achieved that.
[32:16] We've done this.
[32:17] Obviously, the shows were surrounded by Hamish and I, and you do need a face for some of those things.
[32:26] Like different in dramas where it might be a whole cast, but the creator is it.
[32:30] But we had a bit of a hybrid company.
[32:33] I mean, I'm generalising here.
[32:37] Working Dog was...
[32:39] the brilliance of that, there's probably no singular person who's the most famous out of those guys.
[32:47] Rob Sitch with Utopia, but then Tommy Gleiser's doing Have You Been Paying Attention?
[32:51] And then Santos got Cup Fever and they all – but I think the ideas that came out of Working Dog is what really makes Working Dog that company.
[33:01] And then Roving Enterprises was Rove.
[33:03] They were selling Rove at the time.
[33:04] They've since expanded, but he was very much a celebrity-based company.
[33:09] production company and it was off him, which happens a lot overseas as well.
[33:13] And I kind of felt like we were a really nice hybrid where we thought our ideas were super strong.
[33:19] We really wanted to put ourselves up alongside working dog with the style and ideas, new, unique, different.
[33:26] And that's that hub.
[33:27] And then we also had Hamish and Andy as a high profile celebrity face.
[33:32] So we would think, I thought we were getting the best of both worlds, but not sure how you saw it.
[33:35] Yeah, well, we did.
[33:36] I think definitely by the end, when you look at the kind of like all the things we did, it feels like that.
[33:42] Definitely at the start, I think I felt, because I'm a performer and I felt like I want to be doing what you guys are doing.
[33:49] And I carried all this like...
[33:53] Gross resentment that I wasn't being given what I thought was my fair go of the performing pie.
[34:02] But since then, realised, well, even while I was there at the back end of it, realised that like, they don't owe me anything.
[34:11] Like no one owes me anything.
[34:12] And I just sort of had the realisation that I need to go out and do, like you guys did, go out and earn my right to have my show or whatever it might be.
[34:22] And we put time and effort into your shows.
[34:24] Heaps, heaps.
[34:25] Yeah.
[34:25] Like we acknowledged that.
[34:27] Like the discussion came from Tim mainly.
[34:32] It's like, you know, we've poured money, time and money into Hamish and Andy stuff.
[34:35] It's time we should really focus on a Rye show.
[34:37] And we're like, yeah, okay, let's get in and let's do that.
[34:39] I found that harder, I reckon.
[34:42] And I think I got naturally left out of those a little bit because I'm broad.
[34:49] Yeah.
[34:50] Like I was broad, as in my ideas are broad.
[34:54] Oh, like from a tone point of view.
[34:58] And Rye's comedy is so brilliant and niche.
[35:02] And so I think I was offering up ideas to try and make it broader, which actually was taking it away from what its true creative pursuit would be.
[35:11] And I found, you didn't push me away.
[35:13] Let's get that straight.
[35:14] I found like I'm in meetings going, I'm offering things that Rye doesn't want or need here.
[35:19] Yeah, right.
[35:22] And I'd keep offering them up and then the next draft will come back.
[35:25] I'm like, well, none of these have been taken up.
[35:27] Yeah, right.
[35:28] So am I helpful?
[35:30] But it's also there's an actual jealousy back as in not jealousy –
[35:35] envious of what you can do with niche comedy.
[35:38] Like when I'm over here playing broad and I'm not allowed to swear, like if I swear everyone's shocked and it felt like you were freer, like the grass can always be greener.
[35:48] Jealousy is the wrong word, but it's more just like I'm like, oh, gosh.
[35:51] Rye's so good at that.
[35:52] I could never do that.
[35:54] Even if I wanted to, I probably couldn't even go back there because everyone would go, what the hell is this guy doing now?
[35:59] I have thought that actually.
[36:00] I have actually thought that with you and Haymes individually and together because we started off doing very kind of like British comedy inspired like sketches on like community TV and then even to real stories to that extent, like very comedy focused things.
[36:17] Yeah.
[36:18] And I often wonder, is it kind of a bit sad for you that it might be a bit weird if you went and did a sketch show now?
[36:26] I don't think, say it's the wrong word.
[36:27] I think it would be a challenge for people to watch it.
[36:29] You've got to come back to like why you're doing it.
[36:31] I do it because it's fun.
[36:32] I'll just do it.
[36:33] Now people might think it's awful and my career might be over and I'm probably getting to a stage where I'd be comfortable with that.
[36:38] But, yeah, you're spot on.
[36:41] Like I recently acted in New Zealand Spies on the ABC at the moment.
[36:44] Oh, yeah, yeah.
[36:45] And I play a killer.
[36:46] It's a comedy spy thriller and I shoot a lot of people in the head.
[36:50] LAUGHTER
[36:52] And I went, I was like Andy Lissop.
[36:54] Which, when they sent me the script and said, can you do this?
[36:57] I said, are you sure people aren't going to tune in and go, I don't buy it.
[37:02] I don't even get it.
[37:03] Like, this is the kids show guy.
[37:06] Yeah.
[37:07] But they were happy and they liked my, I said, can I throw something down for you?
[37:10] They liked it and so on and did it.
[37:12] So,
[37:12] It was fun to explore that and to go down the path.
[37:16] Yeah.
[37:17] I think, though, I've got more courage to do that now because we've had such a good run, opposed to when you're starting out your career and you're going, I think I can make this a career and what's the step I've got to take?
[37:32] Yeah.
[37:32] More considered.
[37:33] Yeah.
[37:34] And now you go...
[37:36] I mean, the media, those scopes changed so much.
[37:38] Now I'm going, gosh, I wish they gave more people more chances.
[37:42] Yeah.
[37:43] It's just so hard for people to get in now.
[37:46] Which seems crazy considering how democratic it appears.
[37:51] Yeah.
[37:51] Yeah.
[37:52] We need to get to the cards.
[37:53] Sorry, sorry, cards, cards.
[37:54] No, no, it's great, but we don't need to do the cards.
[37:57] The bloody format.
[37:59] I know, sorry.
[38:00] Slave to the format.
[38:01] Yeah, so, Andy, you know how this works, but for those who don't, this is our vulnerability house.
[38:07] There's a deck of cards in front of you, and on every single card there is a question which may...
[38:14] prompt a vulnerable memory or story from your life.
[38:17] So if you pick the top three cards, read them out, and if one of those resonates with you or triggers a story, then you can share it.
[38:28] What childhood challenges best prepared you for adulthood?
[38:34] He's pondering for those listening.
[38:36] He's pondering as he draws the other card.
[38:38] What has been your biggest failure and how was it good or bad for you?
[38:47] What is something you want to forgive yourself for?
[38:53] Hmm.
[38:53] The one that probably resonates just naturally off the bat is the childhood challenge.
[38:59] Oh, yeah.
[39:00] The best prepares you for adulthood.
[39:02] Hmm.
[39:03] And Rye's heard a lot of this, so... Take it away.
[39:07] No.
[39:08] So he was a good cricketer, but not the best.
[39:13] Well, my mum got given two weeks to live in 1997, 96, 97.
[39:19] Yeah.
[39:21] So I know the headlines of this, but I actually have never really spoken to you about this in detail.
[39:27] So, yeah.
[39:28] So she got a rare disease called cerebral vasculitis.
[39:32] I think she was the first to survive it in Australia.
[39:35] So how old were you when this happened?
[39:36] I was 15.
[39:38] Do you remember being told?
[39:41] No.
[39:43] Mum started doing weird things.
[39:46] So I was watching the tennis and mum walked in, and my mum's pretty proper, as Rye knows.
[39:56] Mum walked in, Mary Pierce, the French tennis player, was playing.
[40:00] Okay.
[40:01] Mum went, she's got big boobs.
[40:06] And I went, Margaret Lee.
[40:09] As a 15-year-old.
[40:09] I haven't noticed.
[40:10] I was trying to pretend I hadn't noticed.
[40:13] That's probably one of the reasons I was watching Mary Pierce versus Amanda Quitzer.
[40:21] And I looked at her going, all right, that's the oddest thing I've ever heard my mum say.
[40:27] And she said, and you're not allowed to touch them and walked off.
[40:33] And I went, okay, wow.
[40:37] And she wasn't someone who talked dirty as a joking way.
[40:41] No, I've never heard her swear.
[40:43] Yeah.
[40:43] In my life.
[40:44] Yeah.
[40:45] So I'm like, okay, that's peculiar.
[40:48] And then we were all away in the country where my mum grew up and I could hear her yelling at night.
[40:55] And I was like, what is going on?
[40:58] And then she was just sleeping all day.
[41:01] And she would find this banana lounge outside and she's not a lazy person at all.
[41:06] And she'd just lie there and not speak much.
[41:10] And I was, and my brother were wheeling her around into different shades and we're like, and dad's like, something's not right.
[41:17] Cause how old was she?
[41:18] How old was she at this point?
[41:20] She would have been 44.
[41:21] Like our age.
[41:23] Yeah.
[41:23] Um,
[41:27] And then my recollection was dad said, we've got to go down to Melbourne.
[41:31] The doctors think we should go down to Melbourne.
[41:34] And she didn't quite like being upright.
[41:36] So I remember mum being in the front seat of the car, folded all the way back.
[41:41] And I was in the back seat behind her, just holding her shoulders as we drove kind of two and a half hours back to Melbourne.
[41:49] And then they started the tests and they didn't know what it was, but rapid decline.
[41:55] She forgot how to walk, how to talk, who we all were.
[41:58] And then they said it's going down, deteriorating rapidly, we think two weeks.
[42:05] And so you're kind of trying to compute that.
[42:08] So as far as like the change that this was, like what was your mum like?
[42:17] Yeah, mum was super social, like a go-getter.
[42:22] Primary school teacher and my mum and dad are both primary school teachers.
[42:24] So just great people, love for kids, love for fun.
[42:27] You know, we'd play social tennis, all that kind of stuff.
[42:30] And then that just evaporates, that just goes.
[42:34] She was in hospital for a long time, for months and months and months.
[42:38] I'm going to say four or five months as they tried to work out what was happening and stabilised her.
[42:45] And I'd go in to see her every day and you introduce yourself.
[42:51] You're like, hi, I'm Andy.
[42:53] I play hockey.
[42:55] Field hockey.
[42:56] Nothing cool.
[42:57] Yeah.
[42:58] I play the trumpet and you just have the same conversation every day.
[43:03] And she would talk about aliens visiting her and weird things.
[43:06] It was just, it was just a strange how the mind works.
[43:09] And that's scary.
[43:10] Scary.
[43:10] Yeah.
[43:10] I don't.
[43:14] remember being I remember don't remember being that scared or upset I know that's odd at what point did the doctor say that she had two weeks to live though it was early on because she'd passed that I mean but what happened for you when they said that when they said there's two weeks to what happened to you emotionally then
[43:35] My feeling is I just didn't believe them.
[43:37] I don't know.
[43:39] I don't think I ever believed them.
[43:42] That tracks, to be honest.
[43:44] From what I know of you, it's like I feel like you do have a magical will, like a magical ability to will impossible things into possibilities.
[43:56] I'm just optimistic about everything.
[43:59] And not to a fault, it's not blind optimism where you're like, oh, my God, I've just lost my entire house and whatever it might be.
[44:05] It's just that I feel like when there's a chance, let's back that.
[44:11] Let's keep that the mindset.
[44:13] Even when you were 15, 16.
[44:15] Yeah.
[44:15] And it was interesting for my family.
[44:18] Hardest, you know, we all tackle things different ways.
[44:22] I do recall hardest, I reckon hardest for my sister is,
[44:28] She, so the split was 13 year old, my sister, Alex, I was 15, my brother 18.
[44:34] And I mean, if we were, if we were going with, uh, something to forgive yourself for, um,
[44:41] I don't think I had the right amount of empathy for my sister at the time.
[44:47] She was becoming a woman and going through all those things that happens and change for a woman or a girl turning to a woman at a time where her mum's in hospital, doesn't remember her, and she's got three other boys in the house.
[45:03] I think it just would have been a really different scenario for her.
[45:07] Yeah.
[45:08] And then I went into...
[45:11] all right, we're drawing up the chores.
[45:13] What did mum do?
[45:14] I'll do this.
[45:15] You do that.
[45:16] You took on that role.
[45:18] And it wasn't, it probably, it would have been annoying.
[45:22] I felt like during that period, they may have a different perspective, but I felt like my brother and my sister got closer, even though there was the bigger gap.
[45:30] And I think they were more willing to be emotional about it, talk to each other about it.
[45:36] Yeah.
[45:36] And I just went completely workmanlike.
[45:39] Practical.
[45:39] Practical.
[45:40] Yeah.
[45:41] Okay.
[45:41] So lunches are this, this, like, you know, and, and away that went.
[45:46] Um,
[45:47] Which isn't, which comes back to bite you.
[45:49] Like people might go, oh, that's great.
[45:51] That's stoic.
[45:51] It does.
[45:52] It's not entirely.
[45:54] Yeah.
[45:54] I think it's helpful having those people around and in moments of pain and suffering, but it can be buried.
[46:06] And thankfully mum came out of it.
[46:09] So mum...
[46:11] basically started remembering things, kind of lost the patch that she was in hospital for, like didn't remember that.
[46:19] So it's kind of she lost six months.
[46:21] She came back home.
[46:22] I remember the time I was most angry.
[46:25] She came back home and she didn't want to be there because we'd become a self-sufficient household.
[46:34] Like the things that she would give us, like –
[46:38] dropping a school or making lunches or do this like we were just doing it all and she came back and had a massive culture shock which is so understandable so she could remember what life was like before she went to hospital that's my recollection and then and and she ended up going back she ended up going back to a rehab center and live in and that's when i was angry i was like fuck you we've done all this
[46:59] Oh, she went by choice.
[47:01] Yeah.
[47:01] Right.
[47:02] And so I was like, you don't even want to live with us.
[47:05] Yeah.
[47:08] So that's horrible.
[47:08] But again, so unfair.
[47:10] No, but it's a very honest thing to share.
[47:13] I mean, I imagine it'd be very common probably.
[47:17] I don't know.
[47:18] Yeah.
[47:19] It seems like you're a kid who's just worked so hard to keep things together and then
[47:25] here's your moment of it's all going to be normal again.
[47:28] And she goes back.
[47:29] I can totally understand that response.
[47:31] But, I mean, all those things set me up for adulthood.
[47:38] In talking to the doctors,
[47:40] They're like, we don't know why it happened.
[47:43] We think stress and anxiety can be a contributor.
[47:45] And my mum was a worrywart.
[47:48] And I do, whether it's consciously or subconsciously, I remember going, all right, well, I just won't worry about anything.
[47:52] If this is what happens.
[47:54] Gosh.
[47:55] I'm not going to.
[47:56] I'm not doing that.
[47:57] I'm not doing that.
[47:58] Not doing, what do you mean?
[47:59] Worry.
[48:00] Not worrying.
[48:00] Yeah.
[48:01] Yeah.
[48:02] And do you catch yourself even now going like, don't let the worry in, so to speak, or it doesn't?
[48:07] Yeah.
[48:07] Like I don't tend to worry, as Raya would know, I don't tend to worry about much.
[48:12] I worry about how people feel.
[48:15] Like I think that's the part that is important to me.
[48:19] But anything outside of that, it's like, oh, well.
[48:24] let's just control things we can control.
[48:27] And then the other, so that has set me up for adulthood.
[48:33] The bad thing to come from it, the...
[48:38] I started judging people's problems because they weren't as big as mine and that's a poor trait.
[48:44] Like so at 15 and 16, mate would come to me and go, hey, I'm unsure if Helen likes me, you know, and I really like her.
[48:54] I'm like, fucking hell, mate.
[48:56] Yeah.
[48:57] It's nothing compared to me.
[48:59] So that is not a healthy thing to do, compare problems.
[49:03] And I think I went through that for a while.
[49:05] You could be quite distancing.
[49:07] Yeah.
[49:08] And it means you don't help people and you're not a good ear.
[49:13] And I reckon I was not at the best ear for my sister in that regard.
[49:19] Those are the parts where I go, okay, okay.
[49:22] I could have done that better.
[49:23] I could have been more empathetic because what's interesting about feelings, as you guys know so well, is someone can feel the same way about two wildly different things, but the feeling is the same.
[49:37] So...
[49:38] this girl doesn't like me, that can cause just as much anxiety to someone as my mum's got two weeks to live.
[49:44] And I know that sounds wild, but that's just how our bodies work.
[49:47] So diminishing how someone's feeling based on my calculations of where the problem sits, that wasn't a great trait, which I've had to work on.
[49:59] Yeah.
[50:00] I mean, same with like performing for you or for Hayme and so on.
[50:06] you guys would come and I'm unsure about this bit.
[50:08] And I would go, don't worry about it.
[50:09] It's going to be fine.
[50:10] It's the worst thing you can say to someone.
[50:13] Because immediately you're not even hearing what their problem is and they feel even more isolated to you and they had the bravery to come and chat to you about it.
[50:19] So that's the one thing I've been trying to take out of my repertoire.
[50:23] Yeah.
[50:23] And it took aim going, that's not helpful.
[50:26] Yeah.
[50:27] And so now it's like,
[50:29] hey, I'm really worried about this thing, even if I do think, don't worry, we'll be fine.
[50:34] The best question to ask in any of those things for anyone I'm working with or in my life is like, what element of it?
[50:39] What part of it is worrying you?
[50:42] And if they hit the element and you solve that, oh, would it feel different if we changed that aspect?
[50:47] Oh, that would.
[50:48] That would make it fine.
[50:49] Oh, great.
[50:50] Now it is all fine.
[50:52] Just telling someone it'll be fine is the most isolating thing you can do, I reckon.
[50:56] Yeah.
[50:58] When you said before that it's the, I'm trying to think of what the best description, I guess the problem solver that you became when your mum was sick can come back to bite you.
[51:08] How did it bite you?
[51:10] I think you naturally distance yourself from others.
[51:14] Like I think my brother and sister were like, all right, well, you're not in charge of us and you've just appointed yourself.
[51:21] That immediately...
[51:23] You've decided to set yourself apart.
[51:25] You've decided how you think it should work without any consultation.
[51:31] That is alienating for yourself and for others.
[51:35] Even if you believe or even if it is the right approach, it's just not the manner in which you should approach any problem solving to truly have people on board what you want to try to achieve.
[51:46] And I don't want to overpaint, like, you know, we're all helping each other out for sure.
[51:49] Like, we're a very, very close family.
[51:52] I just think they became closer during those moments.
[51:54] Yeah, yeah.
[51:55] I can't help, just listening to this story, I obviously put myself in your shoes.
[52:00] We were living one or two tram stops away.
[52:03] We were going through our own crisis in our household with our sister who was really sick.
[52:07] And so I really resonate with so much what you're saying.
[52:11] But now listening to it as a dad, I'm actually thinking about your dad more than I've sort of expected to.
[52:15] And I'm just wondering, do you reflect on what your dad was going through?
[52:20] Have you spoke to him about what that was like for him in that journey?
[52:24] Yeah, my dad is similar.
[52:27] He's like, all right, what do we need to do?
[52:28] Okay.
[52:29] Like that's just been a hand down trait.
[52:32] Ryan knows my dad well.
[52:33] So I think-
[52:37] Again, I think we, dad and I probably came closer in that regard because we decided to tackle a problem in a similar manner.
[52:47] And that's definitely set me up for adulthood with regards to every relationship I've got is when things go poorly or there's a crisis, we revert to what we think is the best and we revert to what we think we can do best.
[53:03] Like, how can I help this myself in my way?
[53:07] I think you'd be a good only phone call if I go to jail.
[53:12] I think if I went to jail, I think you'd be a good person to call.
[53:16] So, yeah, you've got to, I think, taking into account not just what problem needs to be solved, but how do you think everyone feels they need to solve it is just so much more important.
[53:27] And I still have to work on that.
[53:31] My shortcoming with Radio Karate...
[53:33] It was our production company.
[53:34] Yeah, sorry, our production company was...
[53:37] I would be so clear and adamant about what we had to do and we'd be going, why aren't we doing it?
[53:43] Guys, come on, come on.
[53:45] And then eventually we'd work out what we had to do.
[53:48] Yeah.
[53:49] And, you know, you and Tim have just said to me, hey, give us time to mull it over.
[53:54] Like you get confidence in what we want to, we might want to achieve opposed to just as soon as someone's blindly taking direction, there is no ownership.
[54:02] And then, yeah, it's hard.
[54:03] Yeah, I guess that is kind of the good thing but also the challenging thing about collaboration is that everyone works at different pace and everyone needs a different sort of like time to figure things out or get comfortable or something.
[54:20] Yeah.
[54:21] Yeah, if you're the person who can process things really quickly and can see things faster or clearer, I imagine it is quite frustrating when everyone else is sort of, what it feels like slowing you down.
[54:34] Yeah.
[54:35] And I keep bringing this back to business sense, which is not probably what we should be talking about with the reality.
[54:39] So if I use an example with Beck and I, Beck is an anxious person and she said that part, I'm not oversharing.
[54:45] Beck's your partner.
[54:46] Beck, my partner.
[54:47] Fiancé.
[54:47] Yeah.
[54:47] Yeah.
[54:49] Um, and, and she will say to me, I, my brain doesn't work like you.
[54:56] Like when we're in, we're in these moments, my brain doesn't work like you.
[55:00] Can you please just give me a moment?
[55:01] Yeah.
[55:02] Which is so great that I've got a partner that says that out loud opposed to just drifting off and I've got to hear it more and I've got to go, okay.
[55:11] Yes, I think I know what we should do.
[55:15] You're still computing it all.
[55:17] I need to wait.
[55:18] And I'm not saying I'm always right either.
[55:21] It's like often the waiting has been really good for me.
[55:25] And it's like, okay, yep, let's take a stock and maybe we go down this path.
[55:30] But, yeah, it's an interesting one.
[55:33] You know, we hear people talk about when they have like a near-death experience, they have this newfound appreciation and gratitude for life.
[55:40] I'm guessing through your eyes, though, like I'm sure if someone said to you before your mum was sick, you're grateful for your mum, you'd go, yeah, of course I am.
[55:47] But have you had that moment of like, but now I really am, like now I tell you.
[55:54] Totally.
[55:54] But also like it actually probably more grateful for dad.
[55:59] Like dad becomes a full-time, well, not full-time carer, but he becomes the carer.
[56:04] And that's an amazing thing to have in a partner.
[56:09] And whether this comes back to Bobby, if mum ever hears this, but mum probably I reckon always thought she could have done better than dad.
[56:17] Yeah, if the roles were reversed.
[56:19] No, no, as in life.
[56:21] As a life partner.
[56:23] And I think this has been a massive realisation for her to go, oh, my gosh.
[56:29] This guy's pretty great.
[56:30] This guy is amazing.
[56:32] Yeah.
[56:33] This guy is willing to – because his life changed dramatically.
[56:37] His life goes from –
[56:39] social, parties, tennis club, to none of that because he can't take mum.
[56:46] And then friends help, but they help in a I'll drop off a lasagna way, which is very different to I'm coming around having a beer, are we going to the footy way?
[56:56] Yeah.
[56:57] So friends...
[56:58] friendships naturally change.
[57:00] So I always think about for him, like that is, that, that is a huge adjustment as well.
[57:06] Um, and I'll check whether I can tell this, I'll check with Dan, I can tell the story and he can take it out.
[57:12] But we're driving along one day and it had been like three or four years, I reckon since maybe even longer, like five years since mama got sick and she was getting better.
[57:25] And, um, she's walking in with a frame and,
[57:28] And dad said, I want to talk to you about something.
[57:31] And I'm like, and we're in the car together and I'm like, oh, he's found someone else.
[57:36] Like, I thought this would come.
[57:37] I get it.
[57:38] I get it.
[57:39] Like, this is not the life you signed up for.
[57:43] You've got us through half a decade.
[57:45] You know, I'm preparing myself to that.
[57:47] And he said...
[57:49] I think I'm worried mum might deteriorate more.
[57:52] So I think I might stop work earlier, take some time off, and get to spend more time with her, which means we won't be able to support you in certain ways that we might have.
[58:00] And I'm like, God, I'm a fucking asshole.
[58:03] You thought he was there?
[58:05] I'm like, that's...
[58:07] Complete opposite.
[58:08] Complete opposite of what I was thinking.
[58:10] Yeah.
[58:13] And, you know, I'm like, hey, great.
[58:16] Like, that is amazing.
[58:19] And he just loves her so much.
[58:23] And yeah, that's a true test of a partner.
[58:26] And so he's the one that I reflect on more and my gratitude towards, I love them both, but gratitude towards dad and the person he is.
[58:35] When something like this happens, you go, wow, that's significant.
[58:38] Yeah.
[58:39] And look, the family's closer for it, for sure.
[58:42] Yeah, yeah.
[58:43] Like we banded, my sister and my brother and I banded together to get through that bid, though through different mechanisms, and then you carry that.
[58:52] And so when mum's, you know, if mum has a big night with us, she'll rest the whole next day.
[58:59] You know, if we travel anywhere, she has a whole day's rest.
[59:01] But we always say to her, we're doing this.
[59:04] I don't think we would be this close.
[59:06] We wouldn't go away as a family, as adults like this, unless we'd gone through this together.
[59:10] So the silver lining is you don't get to walk as well, Mum, but we're all having fun.
[59:17] I mean, it's really, to sort of like bring it back to where we were before, I'm sort of thinking like because when we met, you would have been like 19, 20.
[59:24] Did you?
[59:25] Yeah.
[59:26] So only, what, three years into this like crazy life change.
[59:32] Yeah.
[59:33] And maybe you might have told, but it wouldn't have been a point of discussion.
[59:37] Like I don't think I would have known what was actually going on.
[59:40] Well, I found a crazy meeting, Sue.
[59:43] My mum?
[59:44] Because she was so much like my mum before she got sick.
[59:47] Really?
[59:48] Like just in looks and vivacious and bubbly and just a laugh and active.
[59:54] And so when I met Sue, I was like, oh, I will never be able to compute this.
[59:59] But this is what I thought life would be like, but it's not.
[1:00:05] Yeah.
[1:00:05] That really makes me quite emotional actually to know that because it just makes me think like that can happen to anyone.
[1:00:12] Yeah, to imagine that, like to think of my mum, I know my mum really well, and it gives me a lot more like understanding of what you mean.
[1:00:22] Because when I met Mick and Marg, your parents, it's like I obviously only knew Marg from when I met her, so I didn't know the comparison.
[1:00:31] Yeah.
[1:00:32] And I didn't really think much of it, but I just thought, oh, okay, well, Andy's mum is sick or there's something going on, like she couldn't walk as well.
[1:00:40] Yeah, disability, yeah.
[1:00:41] Disability, but it was never really spoken about in detail that I remember.
[1:00:47] How often do you speak to your mum and dad?
[1:00:48] Do you?
[1:00:49] Probably every day.
[1:00:50] Do you really?
[1:00:51] Yeah.
[1:00:52] That's impressive.
[1:00:52] Yeah, probably every day.
[1:00:53] Doesn't surprise me.
[1:00:54] So you'll call them and then they'll just go on speakerphone?
[1:00:56] Is that the general?
[1:00:57] My parents watched me play over 40s Masters hockey every Monday night still.
[1:01:03] Do you still play hockey?
[1:01:04] No.
[1:01:07] So my parents still come and watch.
[1:01:10] That is awesome.
[1:01:11] Which is so funny.
[1:01:12] They're the only people there beeping their horns.
[1:01:18] Yeah.
[1:01:18] That's amazing.
[1:01:19] Every day, every second day, yeah.
[1:01:21] And then we have a joint text message group called the Lee Family Gazette, which is just the whole family, my brother, sister and my parents.
[1:01:32] And we just- You're the editor?
[1:01:36] And we just chat all day about different things.
[1:01:39] Yeah.
[1:01:41] It's a lovely reminder of like what can come from hardship, that connection.
[1:01:46] It really is.
[1:01:48] Do you think – sorry, this is a bit of a heavy question, but I find myself struggling with the idea of losing my parents because I'm very close to them as well.
[1:01:59] Do you think what you've gone through with your mum –
[1:02:03] Makes it more acceptable.
[1:02:04] Yeah.
[1:02:05] Or has prepared you in a way.
[1:02:06] Yeah.
[1:02:06] Yeah, I reckon.
[1:02:09] I don't fear death much at all.
[1:02:13] Yeah.
[1:02:15] And I don't know whether it was because of this moment back with mum or whether I just always felt that.
[1:02:19] I actually feel like...
[1:02:22] if we as a society managed to change our perspective on death, I think a lot of our natural anxieties would leave.
[1:02:30] Yeah, I agree.
[1:02:31] He's even optimistic about death.
[1:02:34] Well, I mean, this is a strange, this is a very commercial view of it.
[1:02:39] But I spoke to mum and dad and I went, how are you going?
[1:02:44] And they said, oh, look,
[1:02:46] Our financial advisor said, if we live to 90, we can spend this much a year.
[1:02:49] If we live to 85, we can spend this much a year.
[1:02:51] If we live to 80, we can spend this much a year.
[1:02:52] And like, I'm like, oh, well don't, just go, go do whatever you want now.
[1:02:56] He's like, oh no, we've got to.
[1:02:57] And I was like, oh wow, you can't even, with death, because it comes randomly, you can't even plan.
[1:03:04] And planning is what lowers people's anxiety.
[1:03:07] People like having a plan.
[1:03:09] So...
[1:03:10] You know, it's strange that we set up ourselves to go, how do I even work towards this moment where I leave everything?
[1:03:18] I say to anyone listening now, just get a will sorted.
[1:03:22] We don't want to think about death, but think about who do you want your kids to actually go to?
[1:03:27] Like, what do you want your assets to go to?
[1:03:30] Like these things, because if you leave without it, it is a mess for everyone you're leaving behind.
[1:03:36] So I think we need to talk about death more.
[1:03:41] But we're obviously scared to.
[1:03:42] I'm not.
[1:03:43] But because if we don't, you leave real problems for everyone else.
[1:03:49] A lot of people, I had a friend who, he's an older mentor friend of mine.
[1:03:54] He passed away and his wife,
[1:03:57] didn't know any access to any bank, any key card, like the house, like how the codes work.
[1:04:05] And she was like, oh, my gosh, I feel like I don't even live here anymore because there wasn't a shared resource.
[1:04:12] So there's funny little things you can leave behind without realising.
[1:04:15] And, yeah, it's good to jot down, hey, if I was, I had the conversation with Beck about the house I'm building now.
[1:04:21] Like if I die, I'd like you to finish the house.
[1:04:26] you don't have to live in it, but I'd like you to finish it.
[1:04:30] Really?
[1:04:31] Would you want to finish it?
[1:04:33] And she's like, okay, yeah, I haven't thought about it.
[1:04:35] I was like, well, I need to think about these things because- And I'd like you to keep the golf sim.
[1:04:40] And also the baggy green room as well for watching cricket.
[1:04:43] Please watch cricket in there.
[1:04:45] And she's like, oh, well, I'm not sure how I'd feel about living in it.
[1:04:47] And I was like, well, would you want me to live in it?
[1:04:48] I said, I'd love you to live in it.
[1:04:50] Like, but we built this together.
[1:04:51] I was like, that's fine.
[1:04:52] What about if I got a new partner?
[1:04:53] Fine.
[1:04:54] Like, these are things that we don't talk about at all.
[1:04:58] Yeah, that's quite specific detail as well.
[1:05:01] Yeah.
[1:05:01] Another friend of mine who died of leukemia and he did tell his partner
[1:05:10] I want you to find someone else.
[1:05:12] And that was really freeing for her.
[1:05:15] And I've heard of people in the opposite situation where they don't get the blessing and they're sitting there worried for the next five years, am I doing the wrong thing?
[1:05:23] I think there's a lot you can free people up with just by communication before we pass away.
[1:05:27] It feels like it to me when I think about those discussions, it feels like such an intimate discussion to have, but that there's so much beauty.
[1:05:35] It can really bring you so much closer as well in having those honest, intimate discussions.
[1:05:40] So it feels like you also get to enjoy the benefits of a greater level of intimacy with your people you love in your life while you're alive.
[1:05:48] Absolutely.
[1:05:49] And with creative pursuits, like you said, it's a split between if one of you passed away, have you guys decided who gets that share?
[1:05:58] And it could be if, say, if Ryan was to pass away, touch wood, obviously, that probably is left to his family at this stage if he hasn't thought about it.
[1:06:06] If Ryan didn't get along with his family and they come in and now they own a quarter or a third or whatever this is, suddenly you're bringing someone in to the table that didn't have Ryan's best interest at heart.
[1:06:19] I think my dad could contribute to the podcast pretty well.
[1:06:22] He does a great voiceover.
[1:06:24] He does.
[1:06:24] He can do voiceovers.
[1:06:25] No, but people forget the other things that they're working on that suddenly are controlled by completely different people.
[1:06:34] And you might think, oh, they're family, so they'll understand.
[1:06:37] You don't know, you guys probably know, for example, his relationship with families, but you don't often know their relationships and you may end up with someone who wants to take in a completely different direction and it affects everything you were trying to achieve as well.
[1:06:52] Actually, Josh and I, well, our family attempted to have like a conversation with mum and dad where we just tell us everything you want and we had a script there and we all, my sister came from LA for it and we went out for lunch.
[1:07:03] I was late.
[1:07:04] Josh had to leave early and mum goes, I don't want to do this.
[1:07:06] And that was it.
[1:07:09] We'll probably have a lovely steak.
[1:07:10] We'll try.
[1:07:12] It wasn't a Lee Bones production, that's why.
[1:07:15] We heard it, Andy, there.
[1:07:16] My dad said he'd like to be scattered at my beach house.
[1:07:20] Oh.
[1:07:20] And I said, you're not devaluing the land, mate.
[1:07:24] We cannot have this.
[1:07:28] Well, I really, really, like Ryan said, this feels so long overdue.
[1:07:32] Like your name kept coming up.
[1:07:33] I'm like, I think his life is pretty perfect.
[1:07:35] So I don't know how this is going to work.
[1:07:36] But it's so generous to say that story because I just feel like a lot of people –
[1:07:40] I might not be their mum, but have felt the feeling of someone in their life that they love dearly being sick and the worry that comes with it.
[1:07:48] And it's so fascinating to hear the impact it's had on you in your life.
[1:07:52] And just to finish, to say congratulations on the amount of joy and happiness
[1:07:58] I know it's not probably for you.
[1:07:59] It's like we're going to make people laugh and have fun doing it.
[1:08:01] But the amount of joy and happiness you have spread across the country, the world over such a long period of time is so inspiring and so incredible.
[1:08:10] Thank you very much.
[1:08:11] Loved being on.
[1:08:12] I think you've spent the last hour wallowing a bit much.
[1:08:15] But other than that, it's been really good.
[1:08:18] Thanks, Eddie.
[1:08:19] Awesome, guys.
[1:08:20] Thanks, mate.
[1:08:21] Keep listening to find out what else is going on at the Imperfects.
[1:08:25] Recently, we recorded our first ever live episode for our subscriber community.
[1:08:30] 14% of the gossip that we engage in is negative, salacious, malicious, harmful.
[1:08:37] The remainder is either neutral or positive.
[1:08:39] I am sitting on a piece of gossip that I'm not allowed to tell you.
[1:08:42] Go on, Josh.
[1:08:43] You're not allowed to tell me.
[1:08:44] I'm not allowed to tell you.
[1:08:45] And it's someone we know.
[1:08:47] And I was told yesterday.
[1:08:48] Tell me now, Josh.
[1:08:50] And you can hear that whole episode on gossip, as well as all the other episodes we've done on A Little More Imperfects, at patreon.com slash theimperfects.
[1:08:58] If you want a little more but don't want to pay any more, then you can join our newsletter at theimperfects.com.au.
[1:09:03] And while you're there, you'll be able to see the names and faces of all the incredible people who helped make this show.
[1:09:08] a show made on the lands of the Wurundjeri, Woiwurrung people, and we pay our respects to elders past and present.
[1:09:14] The Imperfects is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment.
[1:09:21] The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you're struggling, please see a healthcare professional or call Lifeline on 13 11 14.

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