# Troy Kinne - It’s What’s Inside That’s Backwards

An episode of [The Imperfects](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1476501557), 16 Nov 2025, 1 h 14 min.

Audio: https://enrichment.soundstack.com/4vjqq8/episode.flightcast.com/h4oryyuo3n5qslm8hfibto9j.mp3

Troy Kinne’s heart is in the right place. As in, it’s on the wrong side. In fact, many of Troy’s organs are in the ‘wrong’ place. Which can be hard on the immune system, but great material for a stand-up comedian. Joining us in the Vulnerabilitea House, and answering the question, ‘when is a time you’ve felt ashamed?’ Troy takes us on a journey, from being offered a (life)line by a fish and chip shop in his 20’s, to the effect that being sick for an entire year had on his mental health. Troy chats to Josh about the light he found in his darkest times, and how living without fear allowed him to venture into the comedy world for the first time. Speaking about success, and whether it will ever be enough, Troy is really open about what it is like to have to find yourself again after realising that you are no longer the underdog, and how hard it can be to offer your current self compassion. Troy, what a pleasure. If you’d like to watch this full episode on YouTube, follow this link - https://youtu.be/ZZm6VAq7g_o Chapters: 0:00 – An episode years in the making 7:40 – When is a time that you’ve felt ashamed? 16:21 – Reality of chronic illness 24:50 – Reality of chronic illness during a pandemic 29:53 – The positive payoff of depression 38:37 – Constantly on the rollercoaster 48:43 – When you’re no longer the Underdog 55:57 – At what point will it be enough? 🫖 Other Imperfects episodes mentioned in this episode • Hugh & Penny - The Elephant in the Relationship - https://bit.ly/446GPeG 📺 Things to watch • The Magic Basket - https://bit.ly/4p0R6RF • Dr Google - https://bit.ly/4otHfnE • Flint Town Docuseries - https://bit.ly/49TJjAK • Fearless - https://bit.ly/444z3Su 📖 Things to read • A New Earth, by Eckhart Tolle - https://bit.ly/4oYUrke 🩷To host your own Vulnerabilitea House, (with the new cards!) purchase here - http://bit.ly/4lyuuWz 🩵To purchase our journal (or your novel) My Imperfect Life, click here - http://bit.ly/4lyuuWz 🩵To join our patreon community, A Little More Imperfects, follow this link - http://bit.ly/4mqunxu 🩷 AND you can subscribe to A Little More Imperfects through Apple Podcasts too, here - http://bit.ly/4mq5BO5 The Imperfects is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you’re struggling, please see a healthcare professional, or call lifeline on 13 11 14. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Very exciting announcement to start this week's episode.
[0:04] Yes.
[0:04] So we have vulnerability house cards.
[0:06] We love them.
[0:07] People are using them.
[0:08] Lots of people are using them.
[0:09] That's not totally true.
[0:10] There's a group that aren't using them.
[0:12] Men are not vulnerabling themselves.
[0:15] Men are trash.
[0:16] We're not saying that, are we?
[0:18] No, we're not saying that.
[0:19] No, it's true.
[0:20] No, I would never say that.
[0:22] But men are not using our cards and we thought, how are we going to fix this problem?
[0:25] Because we need men being vulnerable.
[0:27] We need men being open and honest with people in their lives.
[0:30] And so enter Ryan Shelton's brain.
[0:33] Ryan had the idea and it's wonderful.
[0:35] Well, these cards are exactly the same as the normal vulnerability house cards.
[0:40] Exact same.
[0:40] Exact same questions.
[0:41] Exact same things.
[0:43] but we've just written mate on every single card.
[0:45] So, for example, instead of a card saying, what is your greatest fear?
[0:50] It says, what is your greatest fear, mate?
[0:54] And we just figure like men can finally read them and men can finally use them and get vulnerable.
[1:00] And the floodgates of tears and vulnerability are surely about to open.
[1:06] Absolutely.
[1:07] You are a very clever man to think of that.
[1:10] Thank you, Hugh.
[1:11] Josh, we're celebrating the release of these new mate cards.
[1:14] How are we celebrating?
[1:16] Ding dong merrily on high.
[1:18] I'm just saying it's a good Christmas present.
[1:20] Oh, that's not what this is about.
[1:22] Anyway, I just thought that though.
[1:24] Yeah, that's cool.
[1:25] Sometimes it's good to say whatever you're thinking.
[1:27] We'll sing it.
[1:29] So to celebrate it, we're doing a giveaway.
[1:32] And to be in the running to win one of these card packs, you go to the show notes and sign up to my imperfect email, our weekly newsletter.
[1:39] But if you're already subscribed to the email in today's newsletter, there will be a referral link.
[1:44] And if you get a couple of mates to sign up, that's a couple of entries.
[1:46] If you get 10 mates to sign up, that's 10 entries.
[1:49] It feels good doing competitions.
[1:51] Yeah.
[1:52] It does.
[1:52] That's funny.
[1:53] We're going to sign the cards, aren't we?
[1:54] Yeah, we're going to sign them and we are going to bloke-ify these cards with imagery that whatever comes to us in the moment, whatever we think is going to make these cards as blokey as possible, we're doing it.
[2:06] Okay.
[2:07] Go to the show notes to sign up for your chance to win one of five sets or refer a friend.
[2:12] Mate.
[2:13] This episode of The Imperfects mentions suicide.
[2:15] If this is something that you don't feel like you can engage with today, then please skip this one for now and come back when you're ready.
[2:21] My name's Josh, I'm the co-host of The Imperfects, and I'd like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation as the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is recorded.
[2:30] While I'm at the hospital, the doctor who's just got the stethoscope on me just says to my mum, you know his heart's on the wrong side?
[2:37] Oh, it's flipped over.
[2:39] My lungs also flipped over.
[2:42] Only one lung works.
[2:44] There's nothing more entertaining than watching a medically trained professional try and keep their cool with a stethoscope on your chest like, what the hell?
[2:55] I got sick the middle of 2023 until the middle of 2024.
[3:01] And this is probably the worst one of the things that come with dextrocardia.
[3:05] The cilia hairs are in your, they're little teeny tiny hairs that prevent infection, disease and allergies.
[3:13] My cilia hairs go the wrong way.
[3:15] Jesus.
[3:16] So when I get sick, it always turns into an infection.
[3:20] That was...
[3:22] tough because I started to really sort of think, is this just my life now?
[3:28] The Imperfects invites you into a very safe place.
[3:35] A place where we share without judgment and drink heaps of vulnerability.
[3:46] Grab yourself a cup.
[3:47] This is the Vulnerability House.
[4:00] There aren't many people really in my life or even that have been on this podcast who I can say proudly that I've shared a long walk on a beach with.
[4:12] But Troy Kimmy is one.
[4:15] I think, Troy, you're maybe the only person outside of my romantic relationship who I've shared a long walk on the beach with.
[4:23] And maybe it didn't go long enough.
[4:25] Who knows what would have happened?
[4:26] Funny to say that because I have realised recently that when I mention you in any way, I always say, yeah, I know Ryan Shelton.
[4:35] During lockdown, he and I went for a lot of walks together on the beach.
[4:37] That's how I introduce you to people.
[4:39] Yeah.
[4:40] One thing led to another.
[4:41] That's my walking partner.
[4:42] Yeah.
[4:42] We had some nice times during lockdown.
[4:44] Which beach?
[4:44] Yeah.
[4:46] Down at South Gippsland, down Sandy Point Beach.
[4:49] Oh, lovely.
[4:50] Wilson's Promontory area.
[4:51] Yeah, it's a very long beach, great walking beach.
[4:53] Yeah.
[4:54] And Troy and I walked together.
[4:56] A lot of privacy.
[4:57] Yeah.
[4:59] Not a soul in sight.
[5:01] Anything could happen.
[5:03] Also, as far as I know, I'm pretty sure the only guest also who has dated Josh and my sister.
[5:09] Yeah.
[5:09] So there we go.
[5:11] I have infiltrated this podcast.
[5:15] This has been years in the making, Troy.
[5:18] Any way you can get on.
[5:21] Troy Kinney, like so many people know who you are.
[5:24] I mean, you're an absolute bloody powerhouse of comedy.
[5:29] But Hugh will more formally introduce you.
[5:33] Growing up in Sale a few hours from Melbourne, Troy and his friends would borrow video cameras from the school library and film sketches showing them to whoever would watch TV.
[5:42] Laborer by day, stand-up comedian by night, Troy sent a CD performance to the comedy lounge and was booked for a spot.
[5:48] Winning the You Gotta Be Joking competition, Troy won a trip to New York to attend the American Institute of Comedy.
[5:55] Returning to Australia, Troy became an in-demand act for mining camps in the Australian Defence Force and finally gave up his laboring job to become a full-time comedian.
[6:04] Jeez, that would have been a huge – that strikes me as a big moment for any comedian when they go full-time comedy.
[6:10] It's so weird.
[6:12] In my mind, it was like, that's what you want, the dream.
[6:14] Like, all right, now I'm full-time.
[6:16] I can say I'm a comedian.
[6:17] But it's weird because you cross over and nothing happens.
[6:21] Like, you don't get a certificate or anything.
[6:24] It's your decision.
[6:25] Yeah.
[6:25] You change your LinkedIn, obviously.
[6:27] Yeah.
[6:28] Yeah.
[6:29] It's the main thing, your profile and your Facebook.
[6:31] You're a comedian.
[6:32] How do you like me now?
[6:35] It's huge.
[6:35] Actually, before I jump back into this, just a warning.
[6:38] I'm going to say something is part of this bio, which I have never said before and I did not know is a thing.
[6:42] And I wonder if you guys can pick what it is.
[6:45] Launching himself into the YouTube world when it was relatively new, Troy's videos garnered attention from major Australian news broadcasters and newspapers.
[6:54] In 2014, Kinney, Troy's comedy sketch show, debuted on Channel 7.
[6:58] And in 2015, Troy was nominated for the Logie Award for Most Outstanding Newcomer.
[7:03] I mean, that show was so, it's such an iconic show, I think.
[7:07] Even now, looking back at like the kind of the breadth of like Australian comedy sketch shows, I'd say that that would be easily one of the best and I think most loved even now.
[7:20] It's because it still exists so much of it online.
[7:22] Well, I mean, thank you for saying that.
[7:24] But also, I think if it is loved, I think people are loving the sketches about half of them don't realise it was a TV show.
[7:32] Yeah.
[7:33] Oh, yeah.
[7:33] Because I'll have people say, I'm surprised you haven't done a TV show with how much content you've got.
[7:37] And I'm like, that content is from a TV show you haven't watched.
[7:40] No, I'm just squeezing the lemon 10 years later.
[7:43] Yeah, that's it.
[7:44] Was the Magic Coffee Table one on the TV show?
[7:47] Yeah, but it was in episode six, which if you know the biz, means it wasn't considered one of the better sketches you basically load up.
[7:56] Really?
[7:57] Episode one with the best stuff and it just basically gets worse and worse.
[8:00] So the last episode was episode six and actually the producers didn't want it in.
[8:05] Oh, wow.
[8:05] And it was because our brief was, and this is probably why, you know, this stuff goes so well online, the brief was to bring the online or internet feel to TV.
[8:15] Yes.
[8:15] So we purposely filmed it rough and quick.
[8:18] Oh, I didn't know that.
[8:19] So it wasn't until I put that one online that then that one went nuts.
[8:24] I mean, that magic washing basket, if anyone – I mean, is that what it's called, magic washing basket or magic coffee table?
[8:30] Magic basket.
[8:31] Magic basket, yeah.
[8:33] You've probably seen it, but we'll link to it.
[8:35] It's so good.
[8:36] It's so good.
[8:37] It links so well to mental load, which we've talked about a lot.
[8:40] It's a wonderful link to the mental load in relationships.
[8:42] It was like the first time I saw it, I sent it to my wife straight away.
[8:44] Oh, yeah, you can get mixed reactions, that's for sure.
[8:51] I haven't said the thing you've never heard before.
[8:52] Sorry.
[8:55] Troy captivates audiences both on stage and in front of the camera with appearances on Nova FM, Husey and Kate for breakfast, Hamish and Andy, and Have You Been Paying Attention.
[9:04] And it's performed at Caroline's on Broadway, Gotham Comedy Club, Laugh Factory, and the Hollywood Comedy Store.
[9:11] In 2019, Troy revealed that he suffers from a rare genetic heart condition called dextrocardia, where his heart is on the right side of his body.
[9:23] As in the wrong side.
[9:24] Oh, yes.
[9:28] The right hand side.
[9:31] Whoa, I didn't know that.
[9:33] I've never heard of that ever.
[9:35] I didn't know that was a thing.
[9:37] Did you know that?
[9:38] Have you guys ever heard of that?
[9:40] Not until researching Troy.
[9:43] Wow.
[9:43] Yeah.
[9:44] So that was a big part of my life when I, well, when it was discovered, and it's been a big part recently.
[9:51] Like my live show that I'm touring at the moment is called Made Wrong, and people think it means that title is, oh, I'm going to talk about stuff that's wrong.
[9:59] I'm just one of them.
[10:00] It's like, no, my body is made the wrong way around.
[10:03] Oh.
[10:03] Okay.
[10:03] One more paragraph, sorry.
[10:05] Have you got to the bit yet?
[10:06] Yes, that was it.
[10:07] Oh, that was it.
[10:08] Oh, right.
[10:08] Yeah.
[10:09] Yeah.
[10:11] What a tease.
[10:12] What a tease.
[10:14] Yeah.
[10:14] I just never, anyway.
[10:16] Troy is more than his achievements.
[10:18] He's a man whose presence lifts people.
[10:20] At a time when the world needs it most, Troy, you make people smile, and in those smiles you give back hope, light, and connection.
[10:27] And we're so excited that you're here today.
[10:29] Me too.
[10:30] Thank you for having me.
[10:31] So now, Troy, this is a Vulnerability House episode.
[10:35] For those new to the show, the Vulnerability House is a place where we drink tea, Vulnerability House, and we get vulnerable.
[10:44] And the way that we ask you to do that, Troy, is we've got a deck of cards.
[10:48] It's a new Vulnerability House deck of cards, which people can buy at theimperfects.com.au.
[10:53] It's a bunch of new questions, new design.
[10:57] They're beautiful.
[10:57] Yeah.
[10:58] And if you don't mind, it's not really your choice.
[11:03] If you could please take just three cards and they'll each have a question on them.
[11:09] And if one of those questions sparks a memory or a story or anything that you feel comfortable talking about vulnerably.
[11:18] Okay.
[11:18] First one.
[11:19] How has fear shaped your choices?
[11:22] Mm-hmm.
[11:25] Yep.
[11:25] That resonates a bit.
[11:28] When is the time that you felt ashamed?
[11:32] Okay, that's an interesting one.
[11:34] All right.
[11:35] Flag that one.
[11:36] As a comedian.
[11:38] Yeah.
[11:40] Quite often.
[11:41] Yeah.
[11:41] Who do you go to for advice and why?
[11:45] Okay.
[11:45] Just say me if it's me.
[11:46] Okay.
[11:49] I'm going to go with the when is the time that you've felt ashamed because this is something that I've only discovered the answer to, I reckon, in the last couple of weeks.
[12:00] Oh, wow.
[12:01] Yeah.
[12:02] So the time I've felt ashamed is actually now.
[12:08] Now?
[12:08] Not when I walked in the room, like now in this time of my life.
[12:12] In this time of your life, yeah.
[12:13] And by the way, it's an internal shame.
[12:16] I haven't committed a crime.
[12:17] We're not on the clock or anything.
[12:18] Good, we are recording.
[12:20] Okay, so don't get scared that we're going too far back, but when I was born, as you mentioned in your lovely intro there, thank you, Hugh, I was born with a medical condition.
[12:35] Hmm.
[12:36] which at the time no one knew that I had a condition.
[12:41] It wasn't until five years later when I was five years old.
[12:43] I was in the backyard having water balloon fights.
[12:46] I slipped, smashed my nose on the tap, went to the hospital for that.
[12:51] While I'm at the hospital, the doctor who's just got the stethoscope on me just says to my mum, you know his heart's on the wrong side.
[12:59] And my mum's like, no.
[13:01] That's a big bit of information to drop.
[13:03] I guess when you're a baby, all hearts just seem like they're in the middle.
[13:06] Like it's, you know, this is a long time ago.
[13:11] Mrs. Kinney, you're aware your son's a cyborg, yeah?
[13:13] Do you know that?
[13:16] Full robot.
[13:17] Okay, just letting you know.
[13:19] And my memory is from that day, I was at the Royal Children's Hospital.
[13:24] But what I feel like was a month.
[13:26] So that's when they found out it is dextrocardia.
[13:30] Dextrocardia.
[13:31] So what is that?
[13:31] It's obviously just the heart on the wrong side?
[13:33] It's the heart on the wrong side, but my version of it is also called sciatis inversus.
[13:41] I might actually be saying that wrong, which is mirror image.
[13:45] So it's not only on the wrong side, it is flipped over.
[13:48] Yeah, it's flipped over.
[13:51] My lungs also flipped over and only one lung works.
[13:56] So my right lung doesn't get enough blood to it to function.
[14:02] Oh, my God.
[14:04] Because it's flipped, there's tangulation in the ventricles and stuff.
[14:06] So my blood flow is abnormal.
[14:09] Okay.
[14:09] So constantly my heart now and then will do like a double beat and stuff.
[14:14] Right.
[14:14] And I just have gotten used to it.
[14:16] But sometimes at night when you feel it happening, you're like, it's annoying.
[14:21] Oh, man, that's full on.
[14:23] Yeah.
[14:23] Yeah, so my right lung works at like 8%, which basically is nothing.
[14:29] And I've seen it in x-rays and stuff, and it's just black.
[14:34] And I've been in one x-ray where...
[14:36] And I just assume, you know, as a sheet gets passed along of information, everyone reads it, but there was a guy and a girl taking the x-ray and when it happened I just heard, ooh.
[14:47] They came out and said, have you had your lung?
[14:50] I said, yeah, I know, only one lung works.
[14:52] I went, okay, good.
[14:54] because we just hit the panic stations.
[14:56] I mean, it would be a fun thing for you to do to pretend like you don't know every time.
[15:00] I'll admit when I go into, if I see like a doctor interstate or something, I don't write on the form Dextracardia because there's nothing more entertaining than watching a medically trained professional try and keep their cool with a stethoscope on your chest.
[15:14] It's like...
[15:19] But to be honest, I mainly do it because if I'm at the doctor's and it's nothing to do with my chest, I do try and let it slip under the radar because once they find out, I'm in there for another 40 minutes because they're fascinated.
[15:30] They just want to examine me.
[15:32] So it's very rare, I'm assuming.
[15:33] Yeah, it's rare.
[15:33] Yeah.
[15:33] Yeah.
[15:35] And one doctor, and this was in Melbourne, straightaway he got so excited, he said, I've got an idea.
[15:42] I lecture at Melbourne University.
[15:44] What if we sneak you in as one of the, like, dummy patients and my students have to examine you and try and figure out what's wrong with you?
[15:53] Wow.
[15:54] And I did this.
[15:54] I got $80.
[15:55] I went and said, what?
[15:58] I went and sat on like a, it's like a fake hospital bed in a, you know, a tutorial centre or whatever, the uni.
[16:05] And, yeah, they were examining me.
[16:08] And I don't know if, I think afterwards I realised it's because they, I guess they all want to be the one that works out what's going on.
[16:15] So they're not really talking to each other.
[16:18] There's about five students all sort of taking turns.
[16:20] They've got their notepads.
[16:21] Like a medical escape room.
[16:23] Yeah.
[16:24] Yeah, quickly like one will grab like my side and then write something down or whatever.
[16:29] And they're just sort of talking.
[16:30] It could be like thyroid, could be whatever.
[16:32] Oh, man.
[16:34] Not functioning properly.
[16:35] I'll tell you what is functioning properly.
[16:36] My ears.
[16:37] I can hear you, Bricks.
[16:39] Almost left there in tears getting judged.
[16:41] There's definitely something wrong with it.
[16:43] Yeah.
[16:45] So, I mean, that's probably the biggest kick I've got out of it, but probably the worst, I guess, symptom of this condition is, so it's basically everything's reversed.
[16:56] My liver's on the other side and everything.
[16:58] Oh, wow.
[16:58] So really, if I'm like swimming at Pondai Beach, I should wear a bracelet that says, if I get into trouble, it's the other side.
[17:06] Other side, yeah.
[17:09] So how does that happen?
[17:10] Yeah.
[17:11] Do you know how that happened?
[17:13] No, it's just one of those things that sometimes happens, yeah.
[17:16] How rare is this?
[17:17] It must be...
[17:19] I feel like it's pretty rare, but I have had since I've talked about it in my show and stuff, I've had probably about six people write to me and say they've got it as well or someone they know has.
[17:35] So this is the weird thing.
[17:36] So obviously when I was a kid and even up in my teen years when I was finding out more about it, there was no Google.
[17:43] I feel bad for my parents because –
[17:46] All my mum knew about, and obviously I got all the information about it from my mum, but all she could go on was whatever the doctors told her.
[17:52] Yeah.
[17:53] Unless she goes to a library and studies medicine, she just has to go on what she's told.
[17:57] You can't look up anything.
[17:59] It's no internet.
[18:00] And I was actually told at like 13 years old by a doctor.
[18:04] I remember being in there with my mum.
[18:07] And it was right when I was into whatever the age I was when Police Academy was big.
[18:13] And I just had in my head, I want to be a policeman because I thought that's what.
[18:15] Yeah.
[18:16] Because he did good sound effects with me.
[18:19] That's what it is.
[18:20] Yeah.
[18:21] And the doctor had asked me what I want to be and stuff like he was just asking those standard questions to kids.
[18:29] And when I said that, he said, oh, yeah, that's great, man.
[18:32] And then he looked at my mum and sort of leaned over and said, just so you know, with this condition, certain jobs like policemen, firemen, army, it doesn't pass the medical, so never –
[18:45] I never could do that, just so you know.
[18:47] I'm like, do you think just because you looked at her that I couldn't hear what you said you did, Kev?
[18:51] It's not a sitcom.
[18:53] It's like I was in this bubble where I couldn't hear him.
[18:55] So I was actually really upset by that.
[18:59] And I do say I'd be a secret weapon in the army because they'd be shooting me on the left side and I'd just keep coming.
[19:07] T-1000.
[19:07] Use me.
[19:08] You've got the Terminator right here.
[19:09] Absolutely.
[19:11] Wow.
[19:11] So being like a right hearted person, does it affect your behavior or anything like that?
[19:17] I don't know.
[19:18] That's a good question because that's where I felt kind of stupid.
[19:21] So I had a hernia operation, I guess when I was like, I want to say 30-ish and the doctor, because I had to say that I'm dextrocardia, he said, oh, so your cilia hairs go the wrong way as well.
[19:37] So you'd get hay fever and stuff a lot, wouldn't you?
[19:39] I said, yeah.
[19:40] And I'm like, that's when I felt stupid.
[19:41] I'm like, how have I not Googled my own?
[19:44] Because he just said, he goes, hey, I Googled it a bit last night.
[19:46] And I'm like, how have I not done that?
[19:47] Oh, you hadn't looked it up?
[19:48] I hadn't looked it up.
[19:49] Because I'd gone my whole life just sort of gotten used to it.
[19:52] It's such a guy thing.
[19:54] Yeah, I know.
[19:55] To not look it up.
[19:57] Why bother?
[19:59] How do you spell se... Ah, don't worry about it.
[20:02] So cilia hairs, which is spelt with a C, C-I.
[20:06] And this is probably the worst one of the things that come with dextrocardia is the cilia hairs are in your...
[20:13] They're little teeny tiny hairs that are invisible to the naked eye because they're so small.
[20:18] And they're in your lungs, your throat, your nose.
[20:20] They stick out at a certain angle.
[20:22] real jagged-like because their job is they prevent infection, disease and allergies.
[20:31] Mycelia hairs go the wrong way.
[20:34] So they're not protecting.
[20:35] No, so they're inviting stuff in.
[20:37] And when it comes in, they cling to it.
[20:40] Jesus.
[20:40] So when I get sick, it always turns into an infection.
[20:44] Like if I get a cold, it's a chest infection nine times out of ten because my body can't get rid of it.
[20:51] Yeah.
[20:52] Like the mucus.
[20:55] Sorry to be a bit gross in the tea house.
[20:58] But when I've had like three nose operations over my life.
[21:03] It looks great.
[21:04] Thank you.
[21:06] And so now I've got like silicon at the back of my nose, like this plate that's covered this hole because the second operation, I got an infection.
[21:16] So whenever, as a kid, if I had any dental work, I had to go on antibiotics before it just in case I got an infection and any operation.
[21:26] And this nose one, I just didn't.
[21:27] Again, now I was like on my own without my mum by my side.
[21:32] It'll be all right.
[21:33] And I got an infection and it was hell.
[21:36] It was like two weeks of I'd be in bed and if I just leaned over slightly, like a tap, blood would pour out of my nose just constantly.
[21:45] And basically it left a hole at the back of my nose.
[21:51] If you were partying at the time, totally get it.
[21:54] It happens.
[21:55] It happens.
[21:57] TV is pretty wild place.
[21:58] You're at the Logies.
[22:00] I know how it goes.
[22:01] I know how it goes.
[22:03] At the Logies.
[22:07] And the surgeons said to me, he goes, oh, yeah, there's a hole in the back there.
[22:11] You'll have to get that fixed.
[22:13] But then years later when I switched over to a new lung doctor who just specialises in lungs and –
[22:23] And he sort of read my medical history and he said, whatever the medical term is for the hole at the back of the nose, he goes, have you had that fixed?
[22:30] I said, oh, no, not yet.
[22:32] It's like probably seven years where I've gone with it.
[22:34] He goes, you have to get that fixed, like, as soon as you can.
[22:38] So I didn't know how much, he goes, that's going to be really affecting your breathing and stuff in general.
[22:43] Yeah.
[22:44] And the surgeon who put this silicon plug thing in, he said, with the cilia hairs and that, he said, I had a good look with his fancy microscope while he was in there.
[22:56] He said, and he goes, yeah, you can see it all going the wrong way.
[22:59] So I tried to fix it a little bit.
[23:02] And I'm like, what did you do?
[23:04] And he just combed it the other way.
[23:08] When I was getting aggro, like a cat being pat back.
[23:10] It's like a velvet couch.
[23:11] It's like, look, you can make little patterns.
[23:14] But all he did, he put like grooves in it, almost like, you know, when you're trying to get water to flow a certain way.
[23:20] Channeling.
[23:20] I think he might have helped it a bit.
[23:22] So when my body gets congested or in my nose area, it's easier to push it out.
[23:28] Yeah.
[23:30] So basically it turned out probably once a year I'd have to have a big checkup and a reset of all tests and stuff, so blood tests, whatever.
[23:38] So I –
[23:40] Went to Adelaide and I did – I was supposed to do like this little comedy festival.
[23:47] It was on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday I was doing shows.
[23:51] And this is when – I don't know if you remember but Adelaide had a big blackout and all the power went out in all of Adelaide.
[23:56] Do you remember that?
[23:57] It was when the Western Bulldogs on the Saturday won the grand final.
[24:00] Oh, 2016.
[24:01] If that gives you the date.
[24:03] So –
[24:04] I ended up doing all three of my shows on the Friday night just so people didn't miss out and I still made money.
[24:12] So people didn't miss out.
[24:14] Yeah.
[24:15] We'll edit that.
[24:17] And that night in my hotel room, I woke up in the middle of the night and my show then had a, you know, there was bits where I'd do my dad yawning and yelling and stuff.
[24:28] So it's pretty strenuous.
[24:31] And I woke up.
[24:33] Coughing up blood, but it was like gurgling in my chest.
[24:36] And I'm like, what is going on?
[24:38] And I went, it was dark.
[24:39] So I went in the room, saw blood, and I went, oh, here we go, because I just had the test redone.
[24:43] So it was in my mind and in my head I'm like, this can't be good.
[24:47] Yeah.
[24:48] But I sort of just, you know, when you sort of hope, I'll go to sleep and hopefully it's clear as by the morning.
[24:54] Yeah.
[24:54] Because, you know, it's happened before.
[24:57] But flew home in the morning, went to my brother's for the grand final, went home that night.
[25:03] Oh, and when I was at the airport, there was a family I talked to on the little bus that takes you to your car and they got a photo with me.
[25:12] And as I turned around for the photo, I just sort of cleared my phone and blood went into my hands.
[25:17] So somewhere someone's got this photo of me just hiding my hand of blood behind my back and, like, smiling, making sure I don't show my – open my mouth.
[25:26] Anyway, that night after the grand final,
[25:29] I was in bed and it happened again and it was like... Oh, so you're still thinking I'll just give it another day.
[25:33] Yeah, it was bad because I thought it had gone away.
[25:35] Yeah.
[25:36] Called my brother and he took me to the hospital because I live in Weavstown.
[25:40] It was the Footscray Hospital, Western Bulldogs.
[25:43] Just won the grand final.
[25:44] So I'm sharing seats with guys who have fallen over drunk and stuff and they just thought I was one of them.
[25:50] You know, I've got blood on my face and...
[25:53] Um, but basically after the results, I had the camera down my throat to look at my lung and stuff and saw my lung doctor.
[26:01] And it was, I, my lung that doesn't work was bursting blood vessels because I was straining so hard.
[26:09] And she said, so it's going to keep happening.
[26:12] She goes, it might be tomorrow.
[26:13] It might be five years from now, but when it gets, starts happening more and more frequently, then we'll actually remove the lung.
[26:21] Oh.
[26:22] Out your leg.
[26:24] What?
[26:24] I didn't ask any questions, sorry.
[26:26] Out your leg.
[26:27] Out the leg.
[26:28] And I do know that at the Royal Children's I did have, I've got sort of scars in my groin area because that's the way they go up to look.
[26:35] So I guess that sort of makes sense if that's the only area that's got nothing in the way.
[26:42] It's like when you ask for directions on Google Maps and it tells you, like, surely there's a quicker way to map it.
[26:47] For me, the visual I've got is when you put your pants on and you forgot to take your undies out the night before, so you put your undies out of the bottom of your pants.
[26:56] Yeah, it's just a long day there.
[26:57] You're on the operating table.
[26:59] You can leave your jeans on.
[27:00] Yeah.
[27:03] Wow Okay so that was the plan To take your lung So I haven't done that yet So it hasn't happened since then And this is What the coughing blood thing No it hasn't happened since then And basically I was given a rule If I'm doing weights I can't do any less than five reps I'm not allowed to lift heavy
[27:22] because it's too much strain on the – and that might be why since then it hasn't happened because I've just gone to lighter weights.
[27:30] But at the time that was depressing as well because I just got into it.
[27:33] I'm like – and I tried to keep doing the class.
[27:35] I was just being annoying by, oh, I can't do that.
[27:38] I've got to set up my own little station and then jump a few years into COVID.
[27:44] And I feel like I'm sort of back on track, but –
[27:47] During COVID when the vaccine came up, my GP said to me, there's a good chance your body's going to react to the vaccine in some way, but also what's going to happen if you get COVID?
[28:00] So it was sort of like between a rock and a hard place, all right?
[28:03] Did the GP mean react to it because...
[28:07] Because of the condition?
[28:08] Just because of my condition.
[28:10] They don't know what... Yeah, the cilia hairs and stuff.
[28:12] It's a respiratory infection as well.
[28:14] And is that a comment?
[28:15] Like for vaccinations in general, do you react pretty... Well, this is what I've sort of found out now that I can look back.
[28:23] This is the RFK Jr. half of the episodes.
[28:27] So I had the vaccine and this, you know, if you had the vaccine, good on you, you know, this is a different situation for me.
[28:36] I had the vaccine and I thought, oh, something real good.
[28:39] That night I woke up and my heart is like beating out of my chest and I just thought, all right, that's me, I'm done.
[28:47] But like in a scary, like serious way.
[28:49] Yeah, palpitations, yeah.
[28:50] Like I filmed it, I've got like my T-shirt was just like, oh my God, you could see it.
[28:55] Yeah.
[28:56] It was crazy.
[28:57] But it turns out, like, I rang the doctor and he said, have a neurofinantium phlegm, did that, and it stopped.
[29:08] But then basically I went to emergency the next day and had tests and it was –
[29:19] what do they got?
[29:22] Mayo.
[29:22] Yeah.
[29:23] Yes.
[29:23] It was, that's what they put it down to, but they also don't know the full extent of my condition.
[29:29] We just take a moment to appreciate that Josh knew what that was.
[29:32] Yeah.
[29:34] That's not myocarditis, is it?
[29:36] Yeah, it is.
[29:36] I read up on heart conditions.
[29:38] Wow.
[29:39] Incredible from half-court, Josh.
[29:41] Myocarditis.
[29:42] I just wanted to say it so I can edit in that I knew it.
[29:45] It seems so ridiculous that I didn't know it.
[29:49] COVID, that must have been – we're kind of brushing over it, but when COVID hit and when the news of that started coming in, that must have been pretty terrifying.
[29:57] Yeah.
[29:57] I mean, like, yeah, you're exactly right.
[29:59] We're brushing over it.
[30:00] But at the time, I was like –
[30:02] should I even go into the supermarket?
[30:04] Because I'm like, if I get this, I'm screwed.
[30:06] I was thinking about it.
[30:07] My heart's on the right side, left side.
[30:09] But it's more the lung.
[30:12] I've only got one lung and...
[30:14] Like if you read up on my version of dextrocardia, it says on there more prone to lung disease and lung infection.
[30:22] Yeah.
[30:22] So I was like, well, that's COVID in a nutshell.
[30:25] Yeah.
[30:26] I went all right after that and I was on antibiotics and stuff a bit.
[30:34] And then pretty much halfway through 2023 –
[30:41] And this is the part where we're leading up to the question at the start, when have I felt shame?
[30:49] I got sick, I feel like it was the middle of 2023, and I was basically sick until the middle of 2024.
[30:58] I was sick for a year where it would be four weeks of sickness and,
[31:05] And I'd be on antibiotic steroids a week of like, oh, I'm better.
[31:09] And then it would just come back.
[31:11] And that happened for me.
[31:12] And this is when I had just written my new show, which was ironically made wrong talking about having this stuff threaded through it, but talking about it in a funny way.
[31:23] But I was so excited to do that new show and tour it around and it was just like the worst time in my life.
[31:29] It's like I was in Brisbane doing five shows in a row, staying at my parents' house in Maloolaba, which is like an hour, an hour and a half drive from Brisbane.
[31:39] And like that's normally my favourite time to do shows there.
[31:41] I love it there and staying at my parents' place.
[31:45] And it was just hell.
[31:46] Like I was just laying in bed, coughing my guts up, and then I'd drive to the show.
[31:51] When you start the show, it's like you get one hour where it's gone because you're just on adrenaline.
[31:57] You've got no option but to do the show.
[31:59] As soon as you stop, it's like I drive home.
[32:02] It's like I've run a marathon.
[32:04] And I just go home, lie in bed, coughing, getting stronger antibiotics, stronger steroids.
[32:10] And, like, even my dad, my dad's not one to sympathise with anyone over anything.
[32:16] Even he was like, I can't, he looked at me and said, I can't believe you're doing these shows.
[32:20] And I've never seen him, like, look with concern, like dragging myself out there.
[32:26] So...
[32:27] Um, that was tough because I started to really sort of think, is this just my life now?
[32:35] Yeah, of course.
[32:36] And I was like so depressed.
[32:37] So I'm going to apologize.
[32:39] I'm going to jump back.
[32:42] in my 20s.
[32:44] So just before you go past that, I mean, maybe you'll come back to this, but I just don't want to gloss over it, but you were depressed, like really depressed in that time while you were doing those shows.
[32:54] Yeah.
[32:55] Yeah, and that's because you were thinking this is now me forever.
[32:58] Yeah.
[32:58] Yeah.
[33:00] And the only reason I'm jumping back is because I went through depression very bad once in my 20s.
[33:05] Okay.
[33:06] And this is when I realised –
[33:09] The positive payoff of it was that now when, you know, I think if you go through depression, it's always with you.
[33:18] And then when I went through it again, you know, last year when I was sick all the time, it's like it comes but your body recognises it and sort of goes, oh, yeah, we can deal with that.
[33:29] So when I had depression in my 20s,
[33:33] I felt like I had nothing to look forward to.
[33:36] I'd gone through a breakup, but it was mainly all my friends had jobs that they loved and I just felt like I'd finished uni, but I didn't know what I was doing and it was just like nothing was coming my way and that's what I felt.
[33:48] I was in Sandy Point at the time where you've been, Ryan, and in my mind I'm like, I'm not going to stay on this planet much longer.
[33:58] What's the point?
[33:59] Oh, wow.
[34:00] And I remember –
[34:02] at the Sandy Point little fish and chip shop.
[34:06] But the guy in there, I used to go in there and use the Wi-Fi, and the guy, I said, do you want a part-time job in here while you're here?
[34:14] And I said, oh, yeah, I'll have a think about it.
[34:16] And I told my mum that on the phone.
[34:19] And she said, oh, that should be good.
[34:21] You should do that.
[34:21] You know, just get some money.
[34:23] But that was a weird response to me because in my head I thought the reason I didn't take the job is because I don't plan on sticking around for much longer.
[34:33] Oh, really?
[34:34] Yeah.
[34:34] So it was that dark at that time.
[34:36] Yeah, yeah.
[34:37] Oh, my God.
[34:38] Do you think the guy at the fish and chip shop recognised how much he was struggling?
[34:44] Possibly.
[34:46] But because, I mean, as you know, Sandy Point, when he was in the off season, it's a pretty lonely place if you're not feeling the best.
[34:54] It can be both good and bad.
[34:55] But it's just I can't imagine he's offering many people that he's never spoken to much like jobs.
[35:02] I just wonder whether or not he like reckoned.
[35:03] That's a good point actually, yeah.
[35:05] If he could go back and be a fly on the wall, you're probably 100% right.
[35:09] He's like, this guy's not.
[35:10] So I was probably just sitting there staring.
[35:14] Because I was just at a loss.
[35:16] Was that health related or was it just?
[35:18] No, that's the thing.
[35:19] It's nothing to do with my medical condition at all.
[35:22] That was pure emotional.
[35:25] And when I realised, like, that I was thinking, my thinking wasn't right, is –
[35:36] Why am I still here right now?
[35:38] Like, why am I taking my time?
[35:41] Do I think something's going to change or whatever?
[35:44] And that's when I, you know, I started thinking, all right, well, if I'm going to, you know, get myself out of here, off this planet, then pick a day you're going to do it.
[35:55] And I was leading up to that.
[35:57] And I just like, you know, that's when you start really thinking, all right, are you really doing this?
[36:03] And how far out did you, like a week away?
[36:06] Was it two weeks?
[36:06] Was it?
[36:07] Got to the day.
[36:09] And I remember I had watched a couple of days before the movie Fearless, Jeff Bridges.
[36:18] Yeah.
[36:18] He's in a plane crash, gets off the plane, he lives life differently because he feels like he's already, you know, one life back.
[36:25] And he's allergic to strawberries, but the scene where he just thinks he's not anymore and he just eats strawberries and he's not allergic to them anymore.
[36:33] And that's when I thought, you really have a good talk with yourself.
[36:37] And I'm like, all right.
[36:39] If I'm going to carry on that, you know, I don't care about myself, I don't care about anything anymore, then why don't you live with that attitude?
[36:50] Like live with, I don't care what people think of me, I don't care about this thing.
[36:54] And then you can do anything and it's almost liberating.
[36:58] Yeah.
[36:58] Wow.
[36:58] So I essentially sort of decided, well, maybe I'll just live like that.
[37:05] And this was in your 20s.
[37:06] Yeah.
[37:07] And, okay, so you're in the fish and chip shop or thereabouts and you go and you have – it's like – is it like an epiphany or is it –
[37:16] Pretty much epiphany that sort of goes on for a few days.
[37:19] And it's also me wrestling with, and let's be honest, the thought of checking out, for lack of, you know, saying what it really is, is just scared of the pain.
[37:31] But also...
[37:33] there's a reason why you're not.
[37:35] And it's because you clearly, there's part of you that doesn't want to.
[37:37] There's part of you that yearns for what else is to come in your life.
[37:42] And this will sound like I'm being funny for the sake of it, but it's just something I've reflected on afterwards when I realised, well, I'm not serious about this.
[37:52] It's because on the day where I was supposedly saying this is it, I know that I hung the washing out and I ate a chicken sandwich and peeled the skin off the chicken because it's healthier.
[38:03] It kind of reminds me of like, I mean, this is a little bit spiritual, but Eckhart Tolle is like kind of the way he kind of got on his path to becoming guru level person is on the day that he was planning to take his own life.
[38:25] He kind of, it's like he realized the phrase,
[38:30] to kill yourself, he realized there was a difference between the self and like it was like there was two.
[38:38] And it's almost like you kind of like were telling yourself there was like two versions of you.
[38:42] There was a version that thought that this can't go on and you wanted to leave the world.
[38:48] And then there was someone else in you, like another part of yourself that was like talking to that other part going like, no, try something different.
[38:57] Yeah, you've articulated that better than I could.
[38:59] And I reckon that's bang on what was going on.
[39:02] Because I had set my mind on this is happening, but there was just something else and someone else, which is also me, saying, you're kidding yourself.
[39:13] Like, you're not doing this.
[39:15] But you listened.
[39:16] Yeah, and you listened and then you think, all right, well, if I'm not, then what's the other answer?
[39:21] And it was, all right, live life with the same attitude you've got of why, you know, you don't care about this, you don't care about yourself.
[39:29] All right, go and live life with that attitude.
[39:31] So the attitude was just eat strawberries?
[39:33] Get some strawberries.
[39:35] Well, then like probably within the year I entered the stand-up raw comedy competition because I was going through this thing of, you know, if I suck, I don't give a shit.
[39:45] So had you done stand-up before that?
[39:46] No.
[39:47] Whoa.
[39:47] Yeah.
[39:48] Gosh.
[39:48] This was, all I'd done was radio, but like a midnight shift for six episodes on Triple M, which I was really trying to get into radio.
[39:58] So that ended, and that was part of the depression too.
[40:01] That ended in a, like a bad way.
[40:03] We had a caller call up and talk like a lot of rude stuff and we accidentally put it to air.
[40:08] Yeah.
[40:09] And one lady rang up and complained.
[40:11] We thought, hopefully no one hears that.
[40:13] And we basically got the sack.
[40:14] So I was like, again, I'm like, my dream job, I've just ruined my chances.
[40:20] What am I going to do?
[40:21] Yeah.
[40:22] And the guy I did the show with, a mate of mine, he moved back to say where we're from.
[40:26] So I just sort of felt like, all right.
[40:28] That's it.
[40:28] Yeah.
[40:29] The dream's over.
[40:29] Yeah.
[40:30] So that's, hence stand-up.
[40:31] I'm like, all right, I'll do stand-up.
[40:33] And it was mainly to meet other people that were into filming videos and stuff.
[40:37] I necessarily didn't want to be a stand-up.
[40:39] Yeah.
[40:39] Yeah.
[40:40] But it was that attitude of, you know, just having no fear.
[40:45] Like if you're going to live like you want to die, then just live like that without the dying part and see what happens.
[40:52] That's a really profound idea.
[40:54] I've never really heard anyone say that, but it's such a profound switch.
[40:58] And I feel like that's not being an expert here at all, but it seems like such a...
[41:05] Getting someone to go from a position of like what's the point of it all to there's so much to live for is a huge jump.
[41:14] And I feel like what you did there is such a small jump that has such a fundamental change in it that is possible for many people to grab onto.
[41:23] I think it's such a helpful thing.
[41:25] In doing the TV show when I first started doing it, I would get a lot of –
[41:32] Young people message me.
[41:35] So I made a pact with myself, I'm going to, anyone who messages saying something nice about the show, I'm going to write back.
[41:41] So I'd sit up the night of the show and write back to like eight people.
[41:44] No, a thousand people.
[41:49] But without doubt or without fail, every time there'd be at least one, I want to say kid, someone sort of in high school or whatever.
[41:58] And I could tell they would say something like, oh, it really cheered me up.
[42:02] And like they're sort of like reaching out of wanting me to ask.
[42:06] And I would say, trust me, we've all been the place where you need cheering up and they'd write something back and then it would turn out they're fully going through depression.
[42:16] And they would be so surprised when I'd say I've been through it as well.
[42:19] You know, I think people just don't just assume, you know, you're the happy comedian guy.
[42:24] You haven't been through that.
[42:25] And...
[42:26] I would always sort of ask them, you know, what's your favourite movie?
[42:31] And it's sort of a good analogy because it's like, all right, when you're watching that movie, when the, you know, the main character loses the golf game or whatever,
[42:41] would you think that movie's better if then he just quits golf and then he just checks out?
[42:47] There's a reason they don't make movies about people who have everything go right in their life because they're boring as shit.
[42:55] And I say this to kids and it's like if you were the character in a movie right now and you were watching it, what would you want your character to do?
[43:04] I guarantee it's not pack up and do nothing.
[43:07] Yeah.
[43:07] So it's just like and find your passion.
[43:10] Like if you like basketball, if you like footy, whatever, just dive into it with like reckless abandon.
[43:17] And you just keep momentum.
[43:20] Next thing you know, you're out of it.
[43:22] Gee, that's great advice.
[43:24] That's so true.
[43:25] It's sort of like you only really learn that sort of, I mean, I feel like I only really learned that particular thing when you start having to write scripts yourself and you learn like the mechanics of story and you're like, oh yeah, actually in every story, someone has to overcome an obstacle.
[43:39] That's why it's a story.
[43:40] And then we get pissed off when there's actually an obstacle in real life.
[43:44] Exactly.
[43:45] Just going back a bit, what does depression feel like for you, the experience of depression?
[43:48] Yeah.
[43:49] Just felt like I was numb constantly.
[43:56] Almost like, you know, when you've just gotten bad news and you feel that rush or whatever.
[44:03] It was like that constantly.
[44:05] Just as soon as you wake up and you remember what your life is, you're just like, mm-hmm.
[44:11] Just like almost like your stomach dropping on a roller coaster on the scary bit.
[44:14] It just constantly feels like that.
[44:16] And that's why I say I think that going through that has almost helped me physically in dealing with nerves and stuff like that because my body has become accustomed to that feeling.
[44:30] And cut to when I'm last year going through just feeling sick every day, I remember that feeling coming back.
[44:39] The worst part of being sick all the time was it was not when I was sick.
[44:44] It was the week where I'd feel, all right, I'm back.
[44:47] And when you would wake up and you could tell you're sick again, that would just be so miserable.
[44:54] And I remember lying there at one point and I said out loud, and I don't know if I was talking to a God, just the universe in my mind, I just said out loud,
[45:05] If there's someone out there like a kid who's going to get a terminal illness that doesn't deserve it, give it to me right now.
[45:14] Because I would rather have that because I know from past I can't check myself out.
[45:21] So give me something where it's out of my hands.
[45:23] Yeah.
[45:24] Whoa.
[45:24] And I really wanted that to happen.
[45:27] Just so I was like, all right, got no choice now.
[45:29] Wow.
[45:30] And this is as recent as last year.
[45:32] That's like last year.
[45:33] Oh, that's last year.
[45:33] Yeah, yeah.
[45:34] That's when I was sick every day up till middle of 2024.
[45:38] Yeah.
[45:39] How does that feel saying that out loud to us now?
[45:42] Yeah, like you might have heard I got a bit croaky, but it feels, it does feel weird.
[45:48] And, well, I sort of half enjoy it because anyone listening who goes through that, you know,
[45:57] goes through having those thoughts or being in that position, just wait it out because now I'm not in that position.
[46:04] You know, emotions and things change.
[46:07] Yeah.
[46:07] Yeah.
[46:08] So what, um, that is, uh, that's really, uh, it's hard to hear as your friend.
[46:14] I didn't, I didn't know that.
[46:16] Um,
[46:17] But what changed?
[46:20] Like at what point did you...
[46:23] Okay.
[46:24] So I was seeing doctors for antibiotics, steroids and stuff.
[46:31] And then randomly my friend who used to live in Williamstown, the area I live in, I just caught up with her for a cup of coffee and she said, oh, you sound a bit congested.
[46:42] I'm like, in my head, you don't know the half of it.
[46:43] But like, yeah.
[46:44] Yeah.
[46:45] You know, we were just talking about allergies and stuff.
[46:49] And she said, you should see my acupuncture lady.
[46:53] She's great.
[46:54] I had sinus stuff and she got rid of it and in my head I'm like, I've had acupuncture before, it does nothing.
[46:59] But to be fair, I had it on my knee for an injury and it worked.
[47:04] But I'm in a mood where I want a terminal illness.
[47:08] I'm not getting acupuncture.
[47:10] So when I get home, she sends me a link on Instagram to this Chinese medicine lady who I'm going to give a plug to, Dr. Karina Smith, who's in Newport.
[47:23] And the only reason I went is because I looked at where she was and she was five minutes from my house, two minutes in a car, evidently.
[47:32] And so I make a booking with her.
[47:35] She calls me and says, can you, first of all, get me all your blood work and medical information, but don't tell me what's going on with you.
[47:44] So I said, all right.
[47:45] So I'll give her all that.
[47:45] I go and meet her.
[47:47] She goes, all right, I've gone through her stuff.
[47:48] She goes, I'm going to guess what's going on with you.
[47:51] And she basically says everything that's going on.
[47:55] From what?
[47:56] She said, I think you're getting sick a lot.
[48:01] Like I hadn't told her anything.
[48:02] For all she knew, I was going in for a massage.
[48:04] Yeah.
[48:05] She goes, are you getting sick a lot and then it'll go away and then it comes back?
[48:09] I'm like, yeah.
[48:09] And she goes, and it'll be like a chest infection, then a throat, then ears and sometimes at the same time.
[48:14] I'm like, yep.
[48:16] And so basically all her clients, well, at that time,
[48:22] were anyone who had an existing condition who got the vaccine.
[48:27] Because your body, my body, because of the immune system being compromised with the celias, doesn't know what to do with it.
[48:36] With the vaccine.
[48:36] With the vaccine, this foreign thing.
[48:39] So the way she put it, when the vaccine, if it's in your body, your immune system will shoot at it like a laser.
[48:47] Mine sends the whole army out.
[48:49] Like my body just sends everything and then it's got nothing left to deal with anything else.
[48:53] So it'll send it to that.
[48:55] And then if I have a little sniffle here, that's got nothing to protect it.
[49:00] So she nailed what was going on.
[49:02] She said, she goes, I reckon it's going to be 12 sessions before we get you reset.
[49:07] Yeah.
[49:08] She goes, in the meantime, if there is infection and inflammation in you from all the antibiotics you've been on, drink this tea twice a day, try and avoid gluten alcohol.
[49:20] And she goes, I'll warn you, it'll come out.
[49:24] I said, all right.
[49:24] So I went home, had this tea, and that night –
[49:29] And sorry about this, but I was on the toilet for like an hour and at the same time blowing my nose.
[49:35] But I felt amazing.
[49:36] It was like, is that why your new stand-up show is called Best Shit of My Life?
[49:42] I think that was a quote from an audience member.
[49:47] So it just felt like it was all coming out.
[49:49] And it was amazing.
[49:52] And I went back, you know, obviously went once a week to her and it was just getting better and better.
[49:57] I was, like, happy.
[49:58] I went to Thailand to go into this fitness place that I love going to, sort of get my life back on track.
[50:04] And within the first week I got sick again.
[50:06] And I'm like, oh, that was tough.
[50:08] I was like, you are kidding.
[50:09] Like, this has proved nothing can help me.
[50:12] So as soon as I cut my trip early, went back to her,
[50:16] And I was just talking to her and I said, I think I might have caught something.
[50:20] I was at this like sauna place in the ice bath.
[50:22] There was a lot of people in there, a lot of coughing.
[50:26] And she goes, did you go in the ice bath?
[50:28] I said, yeah, that's one of my favourite things is like ice baths.
[50:31] And I said, I'm good at it.
[50:33] I can stay in for ages.
[50:34] Don't you take that away from me, Karina.
[50:36] She said, you can't go in an ice bath.
[50:39] And I said, really?
[50:39] She goes, no, how have we not talked about this?
[50:41] She goes, if you get in an ice bath, that's the equivalent of you getting the vaccine again because your body just shits itself and shuts down.
[50:48] She goes, so you're basically taking yourself back to square one.
[50:52] But I was like, I can't lift heavy weights, can't go in ice baths.
[50:56] If we take wanking off the table, I am hobbyless.
[50:59] I'm going to take up knitting or something.
[51:03] Give me something.
[51:04] Yeah.
[51:10] So you're basically avoiding anything that's a big impact on your body.
[51:15] Like even now, I've been at Sandy Point and I'm like, oh, mine is swimming.
[51:18] I'm like, that's too cold.
[51:19] Sorry.
[51:21] And I haven't been sick like that since.
[51:24] So, I mean, I do say she pretty much saved my life.
[51:29] But this is...
[51:32] The time where I'm feeling shame, which you're probably wondering how.
[51:35] Yeah, I was a little.
[51:35] So as I said- It's one of the great backstories of all time.
[51:39] Yeah.
[51:39] I was like, if he doesn't bring us back to the card, we are not airing this episode.
[51:43] I am in a two-hour park.
[51:45] So as I said, now I'm back on track.
[51:50] Not on antibiotics or anything anymore.
[51:52] I can-
[51:54] lose weight again, I can get fit again, I'm back.
[51:56] Because, you know, like when you say, all right, let's be honest with yourself, there's the honesty with yourself for the show, and then almost like you said, then there's the other voice where you're honest with yourself for real.
[52:09] Now, I got Karina to send me the date of when I first saw her.
[52:14] It was May the 8th, 2024.
[52:17] Yeah.
[52:20] So let's say a month after that, I'm pretty much better.
[52:24] But I'm still saying I'm back on track and now I can start living properly again.
[52:31] But why am I still saying it now when it's like been a year?
[52:36] So there's part of me, and this is where I don't have an answer, but I'm like, am I clinging to the feeling of, it's almost the joy of, yes, I'm back now?
[52:47] but I haven't done anything about it yet.
[52:49] Like I'm still, I still feel like I'm a bit scared of, well, now it's up to you to lose weight, to start writing comedy again.
[52:57] Cause well, I wasn't writing anything or whatever.
[53:01] And writing is such a big part of like how you spend your time and what you.
[53:04] Exactly.
[53:05] Yeah.
[53:05] And I know with, when we were doing this pilot we made with Luke Goodall, who's the producer of it,
[53:13] I would be messaging him saying, yeah, probably another week because I'd make sort of up little excuses, which in my mind at the time weren't excuses.
[53:20] But looking back now, because I just couldn't get the enthusiasm or the energy to do it.
[53:26] Where since, you know, a year ago, I have no excuse anymore.
[53:31] And that's why I'm saying it's sort of a fresh thought.
[53:34] I'm like, this is what I feel ashamed of, that I'm telling everyone now I'm back.
[53:40] I can do it now.
[53:41] It's like, yeah, but you've been saying that for ages.
[53:44] But I still, I don't know if I'm clinging to, I like having the underdog story.
[53:48] Of course.
[53:49] You know what I mean?
[53:49] Yeah.
[53:50] No, I know exactly what you mean.
[53:52] Kind of like your identity was that person who wasn't fair.
[53:57] I'm having trouble shaking it off.
[53:59] Yeah.
[53:59] I probably subconsciously even enjoyed the pity I was getting.
[54:04] It also seems that you, and I don't know if you've thought about this, so apologies for, I'm not a psychologist, so I probably shouldn't psychoanalyse you.
[54:13] I can fill in the blanks.
[54:16] It also seems like you, a previous epiphany in your life that worked for you so well was one that I can do a lot from a position of suffering.
[54:28] When you had depression in your early twenties in that it's, I can work from an underdog position and do quite a lot and you had a, and you've had a really successful career and life.
[54:40] from that position, I totally get that you're used to that way of working and now if you look at it of going, well, I don't have anything wrong, I've got no excuses, I've got no – I'm not in my safety position, how's this all going to go?
[54:57] Yeah.
[54:57] I mean that's pretty much nail on the head of what I'm feeling, I guess.
[55:02] And the only –
[55:06] props I'll give myself is that at least I've recognised that.
[55:09] Yeah.
[55:10] That's actually a good point that I've realised in myself.
[55:14] Oh, yeah.
[55:15] That you're hanging on to this story a bit and not doing the second part of it.
[55:22] You're telling the first part and now I can do this.
[55:25] But you haven't started doing this yet.
[55:29] Do you mind me asking what this would look like?
[55:30] What would the second part look like?
[55:32] That's me getting in shape where I feel fit and writing stand-up comedy and going out and performing it a bit more and just...
[55:45] putting my passion to work.
[55:48] Yeah.
[55:48] I don't know if this may not resonate with you, but it's sort of like bringing up stuff for me, which I've thought about a lot over the years and thinking a lot about recently with my psych is it's like, I guess as a performer, and maybe this is the same with anyone, but as a performer or any sort of artistic person, yeah.
[56:11] you do get a little bit addicted to the feeling of being special.
[56:19] And I guess usually that means being special because you've done a...
[56:26] you know, you've done good stand-up or you've done, like you've released your films coming out this week.
[56:30] Or it's like, you know, for those, there are moments that you can either create for yourself or that are created for you that for a moment you're special.
[56:37] And that's like, that can become like, I need that.
[56:41] And I just wonder whether or not like...
[56:44] And this is not to trivialize illness at all because it's horrific and no one wants it.
[56:50] But I guess there's maybe an element of it where you are sort of – there's something special about you even though it's not something you want.
[56:58] But it sort of becomes – it maybe becomes you identify with it as like a thing of – I don't know.
[57:04] I don't know if that's true.
[57:06] Well, it actually just triggered in me then, and it's such a good point you make because –
[57:12] now that I think of it, when Full Story, the pilot I made, when we were making that and when it had come out, that was my sort of go-to, what are you up to at the moment?
[57:22] Just made this thing, it's on YouTube, this, this, whatever.
[57:26] But now that that's sort of behind me,
[57:29] I don't have the special thing to sell anyone.
[57:32] So my special go-to is I haven't done anything lately because I was sick for a year.
[57:37] Yeah.
[57:37] Look what I've been through.
[57:38] Yeah.
[57:40] But now I'm good because I've found this Chinese medicine doctor and blah, blah, blah.
[57:45] My little story.
[57:46] And then that's my special thing.
[57:49] But it's –
[57:52] If I am absolutely honest, it's now not a story.
[57:56] It's an excuse.
[57:57] Gosh, I feel like that would be so common for so many people who have been through something similar who whilst they hate the condition or wherever they find themselves, it also becomes an identity that you become familiar with to the point where that's the point from which you operate every day.
[58:12] That's how you communicate with people differently.
[58:15] and how you see yourself.
[58:16] So it strikes me like you need to just get into the next thing so you can replace the identity.
[58:24] That's like the hard bit probably is finding the new identity thing, which is getting some work done.
[58:31] Yeah.
[58:32] Get some fucking work done.
[58:33] Get your ass in a gear, mate.
[58:36] I mean, fucking hell, Troy.
[58:37] We need to get something done, mate.
[58:39] Well, if I wasn't doing podcasts every night, I wouldn't.
[58:43] Apologies if this question is a bit too, I'll just ask it.
[58:48] Do you think you're kind to yourself?
[58:51] That's very good.
[58:55] I would say no.
[58:57] I've always been hard on myself with, like if I say to myself, I'm going to go for a run in the morning, if I don't, I hate myself.
[59:07] Like I have to do it even if I wake up and, you know, I've got a broken leg or something.
[59:12] I'm like, I've got to do it otherwise I will hate myself the rest of the day.
[59:16] And even with...
[59:19] I remember when I was filming, well, I was editing Kinney, the TV show, the first season.
[59:26] I hated that I – it was when the comedy festival was on.
[59:30] And I sort of felt like lazy that I should be doing the comedy festival.
[59:33] I'm like, well, I'm editing the TV show.
[59:35] That's sort of enough.
[59:36] But like, you know, it's a good problem to have because I remember I was obsessed with Michael Jordan as a kid.
[59:42] And when he filmed the movie Space Jam, he had a court at the studios and other NBA players would come and play.
[59:51] It was mainly for him to get practice and see his competition coming up.
[59:55] And when they were at halftime break, whatever, they were all getting drinks.
[59:59] And he was standing on the court and had someone throw his water bottle over.
[1:00:02] And he said, why don't you come over and talk to the guys?
[1:00:04] He goes, I just need to know at the end of today that I spent more time on the court than anyone else here.
[1:00:11] And I had that in my head and I would, when I was editing the show, I'd look at, I had the comedy festival program and I'd look at when the last show was on and I'd made sure I edited after that time so that I knew every other comedian in Melbourne right now is having beers and I'm still working.
[1:00:27] Whoa.
[1:00:27] Yeah.
[1:00:28] Like, if I go to like three in the morning, then I'd be fucked the next day.
[1:00:33] That's, wow, I've never had anything like that before.
[1:00:35] Although it does remind me of like, for whatever reason, every time I'm at a situation where there's stairs and an escalator, I always take the stairs or usually take the stairs because I think Michael Jordan apparently never took the escalator.
[1:00:49] He always like took the stairs because it like got a little bit more of a workout.
[1:00:52] He's ruining our lives.
[1:00:54] Jordan.
[1:00:55] Yeah, you've probably got two lungs.
[1:00:56] You can take the stairs, must be nice.
[1:00:59] But no, to answer your question, Josh, I do think I am not kind to myself in that I –
[1:01:06] I probably hold myself to too much of a high standard, which sounds a bit wanky but not in the positive way, if that makes sense.
[1:01:17] I don't let myself off the hook easy, especially when it came to the sickness where, you know, I probably had a right to feel sorry for myself but I would –
[1:01:31] whenever I saw someone else or met someone else that was going through something worse, I just like look at myself like pathetic, like, and you're whingeing.
[1:01:39] What's the matter with you?
[1:01:41] You know, I read the other day that when we look forward in our lives and we think about what life will be like in a year or a couple of years, most people will have a very optimistic view of like, well, I'll be very fit then and I'll actually have a bit more time to do this or I would have written this show.
[1:01:55] Do you look forward?
[1:01:58] Do you –
[1:02:00] Like when you think about yourself in the future, do you have a very positive view?
[1:02:04] Yes.
[1:02:05] And I usually do.
[1:02:06] And I think that's what's been part of the problem that I've just been excited like, oh, now I don't have that sickness constantly anymore.
[1:02:16] I can achieve that future that I am bittering.
[1:02:19] But I'm like, I just assume, oh, that's going to happen now.
[1:02:22] I've eliminated the middle bit where, well, you have to actually make it happen like you've done in the past.
[1:02:28] Yeah.
[1:02:30] At what point, you know, thinking about your future and thinking about like all the things that you want to do because you've already had so much success, but at what point do you think it will be enough that you'll like have achieved enough that you go like, okay, well.
[1:02:46] I don't have to work till 3am.
[1:02:48] Yeah, like when is there a point where you're like, oh, once I've done this,
[1:02:52] I've always thought it was if I made a movie.
[1:02:56] It's always been like the ultimate goal to make a movie.
[1:02:59] Then the pilot I just filmed was basically the length of a movie.
[1:03:03] Like right now I'm hoping something happens with this pilot, but I want to be in the position where it's what I'm doing, not what I'm hoping for.
[1:03:11] So what I do is I make –
[1:03:13] you know, television shows I make.
[1:03:15] I want to be a production company essentially where it's just that this is my career.
[1:03:21] It's not like at the moment I'm like where's the next piece of money coming from?
[1:03:26] You know, I'm constantly clutching at the next payday.
[1:03:30] If I'm still doing this but the –
[1:03:36] the making a living part isn't much of an issue, then that's where I feel like I'll be satisfied.
[1:03:43] Yeah, okay, gotcha.
[1:03:44] I mean, I say that now.
[1:03:46] Yeah.
[1:03:47] But there's always a bigger carrot dangling in front of the donkey, isn't there?
[1:03:52] Yeah.
[1:03:53] Someone will come along.
[1:03:54] Yeah, I wanted to ask, is it the payday or is it the success of having the show?
[1:04:00] The success, I'd say, yeah.
[1:04:02] Yeah, it wouldn't matter.
[1:04:03] As long as...
[1:04:05] As long as in my mind it's successful and, you know, I'm making a living, then that's definitely what I want out of it.
[1:04:15] That's the carrot.
[1:04:16] Do you think people consider you a successful person?
[1:04:19] I think they think I'm a lot more successful than I am.
[1:04:22] Than you are or than you think you are?
[1:04:24] Than me.
[1:04:27] Both, but then what I think I am because like, and I think we've talked about this on one of our beach walks.
[1:04:35] Yeah, we would have.
[1:04:36] I'd bang on about this to anyone who listened to it.
[1:04:38] Because that's another thing.
[1:04:39] Like you said, Josh, I get hard on myself because I'm like, you've done like four seasons of your own show.
[1:04:46] Like you can't whinge ever again.
[1:04:47] But I'm like –
[1:04:49] I'm definitely not in a financial position now where I'm comfortable at all.
[1:04:54] And I just did spend some money on this pilot, which has basically made me restart again financially.
[1:05:02] But I think, and this is what I feel, I feel like with Instagram and stuff, it's so easy to portray success.
[1:05:13] And you convince yourself it's part of the job to put out there.
[1:05:16] I don't know, all these tours, like I just did a tour of the UK where, you know, I'm touring the UK, look at these shows, and I'll film the crowd, but I'll film it real low so it looks full at the back.
[1:05:27] That, like I didn't make money from that tour.
[1:05:31] It just, you know, it was just like I killed time.
[1:05:34] And it just, it looks good.
[1:05:37] It's, you know, it keeps you busy.
[1:05:39] But yeah.
[1:05:40] I definitely do think people assume I'm more successful than I think I am.
[1:05:48] But if you, like if I spoke to the 20-year-old version of myself or the version that was in Sandy Point going through depression and I told him what you were going to end up doing, like I remember walking, like he would think you were lying.
[1:06:07] Yeah.
[1:06:09] And –
[1:06:10] I remember going to the comics lounge to watch when I was thinking of trying.
[1:06:14] It was a Friday night and I thought to myself, if I ever got to do a spot here on a Friday night, I could hang it up and say I've done it.
[1:06:23] Now they'll call me on a Friday, can you fill in?
[1:06:25] I'm like, please.
[1:06:28] Like we probably, and this is probably another aspect of being kind to yourself,
[1:06:34] I mean, it's both a good thing and a bad thing to keep raising the bar because it'll make you strive more.
[1:06:39] But you do need to reflect, I guess, a bit on –
[1:06:42] what bars you achieve before you raise them.
[1:06:45] It's like I said, the 20 year old version of me who would just like watch a stand up on TV and go, imagine doing that.
[1:06:52] And now you've done that and you've had a TV show and stuff.
[1:06:54] It's like, well, that's success.
[1:06:56] Yeah.
[1:06:58] I think I asked that question before about kindness, because it's interesting to me that you are able to talk about your 20 year old self going through depression with quite a lot of compassion.
[1:07:07] Yeah.
[1:07:11] it seems like you're unable to access that compassion for yourself now.
[1:07:15] Yeah, right.
[1:07:19] Yeah, I guess it does come down to the kindness thing, doesn't it?
[1:07:22] Because I definitely look back on my 20-year-old self and feel sorry for him.
[1:07:29] But if I look at myself now, this is almost a good thing, I don't feel as sorry for him.
[1:07:37] Probably because he has got all the things the 20-year-old self probably wanted.
[1:07:46] And now that he's got them, he's sort of like, you've still got the nerve to, you know, whinge that you're going through sickness or think that you're not successful or whatever.
[1:08:00] Wow.
[1:08:01] Wow.
[1:08:02] I don't think there'd be an answer to this now, but I think it'd be an interesting thought exercise to think of what the 60-year-old Troy would say about himself now.
[1:08:10] Yeah.
[1:08:13] Yeah.
[1:08:13] Well, my leg's still sore from that lung coming out.
[1:08:17] LAUGHTER
[1:08:20] But, yeah, whether you'd be able to look back at yourself now and have that kind of compassion you've got for the 20-year-old.
[1:08:25] I've always said that when you're going through something, this is me giving advice to other people that have messaged me and stuff, but give yourself your own advice.
[1:08:36] that when something bad is happening, you just get determined as hell to make yourself get to a point where you look back and go, I'm actually glad that happened.
[1:08:45] Like, and I guarantee this will be one of those moments.
[1:08:49] Yeah.
[1:08:49] Like even the fact that, you know, everything happens for a reason, whatever, the fact I've come here and just talking about it has helped me, it's motivated me.
[1:08:57] And, yeah, I've got no doubt I will look back as an older person at this time in my life and know that going through this sickness,
[1:09:06] I've got the joy there.
[1:09:06] It's like, oh, the sickness is gone.
[1:09:09] I'm back.
[1:09:10] Once I start doing something with it, I'll look back and go, that was the time where I appreciated what it's like to live without feeling sick and feel like absolute shit every day.
[1:09:22] So I think that's a good exercise to – I just realised that's not even – I was about to say 20 years, like, that's not even that.
[1:09:33] It is, but I thought it was a lot more than that.
[1:09:36] But it makes you look back and go, well, what do I want to say?
[1:09:39] Yeah.
[1:09:40] Yeah.
[1:09:40] And it gives you a bit of determination.
[1:09:41] That would be an interesting writing exercise to write, you know, first person from your 60-year-old self.
[1:09:46] Yeah.
[1:09:48] Doing imperfects in 20 years.
[1:09:51] Yeah, because certainly writing now to my 20-year-old self –
[1:09:56] It's like an exciting letter.
[1:09:57] You're like, you're not going to believe what you end up doing.
[1:10:00] Yeah.
[1:10:01] And you look at that and think, well, if you're writing that to that person, why are you miserable now?
[1:10:08] Yeah.
[1:10:09] Because you're writing this letter so excited.
[1:10:11] Yeah.
[1:10:12] Yeah.
[1:10:13] So getting basically down to glass half full or glass half empty in that I've done the negative version of it of, you know, you don't know what's coming next.
[1:10:22] Like you don't know when your next payday is or whatever.
[1:10:24] Or you can say, yeah.
[1:10:26] you don't know what's coming next.
[1:10:27] You don't know what's around the corner.
[1:10:29] There's an exciting version of it too.
[1:10:30] I bet if you look back at the evidence of was the glass half full or was it half empty?
[1:10:36] Of course there's lots of empty moments and down moments, but I bet you'd find more full moments.
[1:10:41] 100%.
[1:10:42] Yeah.
[1:10:44] There is so much in this episode.
[1:10:46] I feel like the thing that really for me just thinking about –
[1:10:51] a couple of times in your life, the really dark place you've been and to where you are now, this will bring so much hope to so many people.
[1:10:57] But I do feel like I, before we finish up, just need to remind you of the joy that you have brought to so many people.
[1:11:03] And not many people get to do that for a job and that's you bring joy and hope.
[1:11:06] And you've, you've mentioned people reaching out to you, but there'll be so many people that don't ever reach out that you have brought so much joy to their lives.
[1:11:12] And I think that's in my eyes, that is success and that is such a special thing to do.
[1:11:16] But thank you for joining us today.
[1:11:19] It's been amazing.
[1:11:20] Thank you.
[1:11:21] No, I appreciate that because that is – I feel like that is why I do it.
[1:11:25] You know, you get asked a lot because a lot of comedy is like, what's the message?
[1:11:29] What point are you trying to make?
[1:11:31] I'm like, is it okay to just give people that have –
[1:11:35] You know, worked hard all week, an hour of letting go of everything.
[1:11:40] And I took that from, I watched, remember the old doco series, Flint, about the city in Detroit that had the most crime in it.
[1:11:50] Oh, yeah.
[1:11:51] And I remember watching that.
[1:11:52] Flint, Michigan, yeah.
[1:11:53] Yeah, Flint.
[1:11:54] It's a place in Michigan, America.
[1:11:56] And there's a cop, a couple, husband and wife are both cops, and they're on different shifts.
[1:12:03] So they sort of swap over, like passing shifts of the night, but in the kitchen.
[1:12:07] And I remember the guy just coming home, and he's just had like, you know, rough day, policeman in the city that's got the most crime.
[1:12:14] talks to his wife, says, yeah, okay, cool.
[1:12:16] He just slumps down in the chair exhausted.
[1:12:18] And I can't remember which one, but either Conan O'Brien or something's on.
[1:12:22] And Conan says something and you just see him more from like exhausted to he smiles and goes, ha, ha, ha.
[1:12:29] And he's out of whatever he was thinking about, he's now out of it.
[1:12:32] He's now in this place of, all right, I'll let myself be entertained for a while.
[1:12:35] Yeah.
[1:12:36] I thought, well, that's what I want to do for when people come to my shows, that's what they get.
[1:12:39] Yeah.
[1:12:40] They get.
[1:12:40] And now, oh, if they're just watching a video.
[1:12:42] Jim Carrey calls it freeing people from concern.
[1:12:44] Yeah.
[1:12:45] That's sort of his mission.
[1:12:46] That's what I saw happen to that guy in that doco.
[1:12:48] Yeah.
[1:12:48] Yeah.
[1:12:48] So I appreciate you reminding me of that here because that's exactly what –
[1:12:53] I strive to do and I do need to remind myself that you are doing it now and then because you certainly forget.
[1:12:59] Yeah.
[1:12:59] Well, thank you for joining us today, mate.
[1:13:00] Thank you for having me.
[1:13:01] It's been really special.
[1:13:02] If you enjoyed this episode, but want a little bit more, we've got some good news.
[1:13:06] We have a brand new show called A Little More Imperfects and it's on Patreon.
[1:13:11] For a little bit of money, you'll get access to bonus episodes with Hugh, Ryan and Josh every fortnight.
[1:13:16] Early access to live events plus other things we haven't even thought of yet.
[1:13:19] visit patreon.com slash the imperfects.
[1:13:22] The Imperfects is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment.
[1:13:29] The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you're struggling, please see a healthcare professional or call Lifeline on 13 11 14.

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