# IMPERFIX: Luke McGregor - Living With Anxiety

An episode of [The Imperfects](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1476501557), 10 May 2024, 13 min.

Audio: https://enrichment.soundstack.com/4vjqq8/episode.flightcast.com/ygjts307eekwhv30qrfy90ud.mp3

In this episode of the IMPERFIX, we revisit our chat with Australian comedian Luke McGregor. Many of us live with Anxiety, Luke McGregor has for a lot of his life. For Luke, his anxiety became so overwhelming that it resulted in him having panic attacks on stage in front of audiences. In this clip Luke explains what anxiety looks like for him and what he now does to manage his anxiety, allowing him to continue to work and to get the most out of life. You can hear the original episode in full, with Luke McGregor, here https://apple.co/3CGQJJq See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] My name's Josh.
[0:01] I'm a co-host on The Imperfects and the son of Sri Lankan and English immigrants, and I call Australia home.
[0:06] I'd like to recognise the traditional peoples of this continent whose land was stolen nearly 250 years ago.
[0:11] In particular, we at The Imperfects would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation as the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast was recorded, and we extend our respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.
[0:22] I'm inspired by the world's oldest living culture, and we at The Imperfects
[0:30] Hi there.
[0:32] I'm like the imperfects.
[0:34] Oh yeah, sort of.
[0:35] But I'm a quick fix.
[0:35] Yeah, if you're in a hurry or something.
[0:37] I'm a helpful mix of archival tips from episodes past.
[0:40] You can listen to me fast.
[0:42] Da-da-da-da-da.
[0:43] Get ready for this.
[0:44] Yeah, why not?
[0:44] It won't take long.
[0:45] I'm an episode of the imperfects.
[0:48] Hello, it's just Ryan here for this edition of The Imperfects.
[0:53] And we're looking back on an episode that we did years ago now with comedian Luke McGregor.
[0:58] And this was in a time when I actually wasn't even sitting in on the interviews.
[1:01] This was just Hugh and Josh and Luke.
[1:05] But I've known Luke for years and he is just one of the...
[1:08] I mean, what you hear, what you see is definitely what you get with Luke.
[1:13] And that's the charm and how funny he is, but also his anxiety, which he does allude to on stage and he's spoken about.
[1:21] But it is a very, very real thing for Luke, and it has been for a long time.
[1:27] And I think what was really, really interesting and I think educational, really, from this episode with Luke...
[1:34] is how he actually deals with his anxiety on a day-to-day basis and how he's dealt with it over the years, particularly on stage and how it's helped or hindered his work and his comedy and getting panic attacks on stage and how he's dealt with that.
[1:51] I think he's just got some really interesting things to say about anxiety and anxiety is something that so many of us deal with all the time.
[1:57] So if you want to listen to the full episode with Luke McGregor, there's a link in the show notes.
[2:03] So please, please go on and listen to that.
[2:07] But here is Luke McGregor.
[2:13] Did you – was an anxiety – like is that an issue for you early on in your career when you're jumping up on stage?
[2:21] I feel like for a lot of people, public speaking is a very anxiety – Inducing?
[2:25] Yeah, thank you.
[2:26] Activity, but was it a problem for you?
[2:28] I think because I changed – I had a different mindset towards it.
[2:31] Like I might get nervous talking in a small group of people or at a party approaching someone.
[2:35] But because I've got complete control of the interaction on stage –
[2:39] Somehow it can be less nerve-wracking sometimes.
[2:43] But the more I did it, the more nervous I got doing it just because I, you know, I'd overanalyze it or start to really care and then...
[2:52] I realized, oh, this is my thing.
[2:54] So what if I'm not good enough at it?
[2:56] And so that fear had come in.
[2:57] And then it took a really long time.
[2:59] It took therapy, 50 milligrams of sertraline to finally get to the place where I'm like, okay, this is actually just fun now.
[3:07] Yeah, it was a weird thing.
[3:12] Wafer.
[3:13] Yeah.
[3:14] How long after you started, like maybe I'm getting too much into the detail here, but when you did that first gig and you were like, who cares if it goes well or not, it went well and it was great.
[3:25] How long did that feeling of doing gigs and trying it where it felt good before it started to feel bad?
[3:32] I think maybe the third gig I bombed and I'm like, oh, maybe it was a fluke.
[3:37] Okay.
[3:37] Yeah.
[3:37] And then I'd have gigs where I'd do well and I wouldn't do well and I was like, okay, maybe I really need to try now.
[3:42] It was that sort of – I like it to when – you know when you're at school and you're trying to do an essay and you're like, oh, I got a C plus or a B, but if I really try to get an A, but I hand it in last minute, blah, blah, blah.
[3:57] But then the nerves that you do one way, like I'm really going to try this time and if you don't get an A, you're like, I'm really going to feel like a piece of shit if I don't get an A.
[4:04] So it's like that would stand up for me.
[4:06] I just like, oh, I just sort of, you know, I was just getting up and talking about whatever, and now I was really trying, and I was just more fearful that it wouldn't go as well when I actually put in an effort.
[4:16] Yeah.
[4:17] Yeah.
[4:17] I read somewhere that panic attacks became an issue.
[4:20] Is that right, on stage?
[4:21] Yeah, yeah.
[4:23] I had – I started having – I started hyperventilating on stage, so I'd have pins and needles all through my body and started to become really aware of my breath.
[4:33] I found it unable to relax, basically.
[4:36] And all the timing would go out because I couldn't... All of a sudden, I wasn't breathing properly or I felt like I wasn't getting enough oxygen in, but I was getting too much, and so I was hyperventilating.
[4:44] So, yeah, it was... And then I took a little bit of Valium for it to try and take the edge off, and then that sort of...
[4:59] I think part of it was having a panic attack was kind of like the worst thing that could happen to me on stage.
[5:04] It was the thing I was so fearful about.
[5:05] Like I'd rather faint because then you just faint.
[5:07] It's not your fault.
[5:08] It's done.
[5:09] Whereas a panic attack does feel like, even though it's not, it felt like it was my fault.
[5:14] Oh, yeah.
[5:14] Okay.
[5:15] Did you have to stop mid-gig or did you?
[5:19] Sometimes I'd have to, I'd find a way in the set to...
[5:24] I'd ask an audience a question or something like that.
[5:26] I'd try and find a way.
[5:26] But not really.
[5:27] You just have to keep going.
[5:28] Yeah.
[5:29] And it'd be impossible to do your job.
[5:31] It made it hard to be funny.
[5:32] Yeah.
[5:33] Because jokes all of a sudden were going – Yeah, the audience – Sometimes I just tell the audience I think I'm having a panic attack.
[5:39] And they're always really nice about it.
[5:41] And then I just have to sort of breathe for a second.
[5:44] But –
[5:45] After it happened, it was like, okay, so that's happened now.
[5:48] And it's fine, you know.
[5:50] The audience just wants you to do well.
[5:52] Yeah.
[5:54] And they're really understanding and at least that's been my experience.
[5:58] So after the worst thing that could have happened happened, then it became less of a big deal, I suppose.
[6:03] Yeah.
[6:03] That's like exposure therapy, I guess.
[6:05] I guess so, yeah.
[6:06] I don't know if I'd recommend it to everyone.
[6:08] It's a very brutal exposure therapy.
[6:10] You just have a couple of panic attacks over the course of a year or so, yeah.
[6:13] In front of a live audience.
[6:14] In front of lots of people, yeah.
[6:16] It's one way to do it.
[6:17] Yeah.
[6:18] And so sertraline is the medication you take for your anxiety, is that right?
[6:23] Yeah, yeah.
[6:25] I've just talked to a doctor about coming off it.
[6:28] I don't think there's any shame in staying on it, but I figure, like, I'll try it and I'll just do all the things that you're supposed to do.
[6:39] You know, when someone dismisses your mental health issues, go for a walk, meditate.
[6:42] Yeah.
[6:43] I'll do all those things.
[6:45] And if I don't, if I find that, you know, it's still something that I need, I'll go back on it.
[6:51] But, yeah, it definitely was a very positive.
[6:55] It had massive positive impact on me.
[6:57] Oh, totally.
[6:57] It enabled me to feel what a normal person, I assume, feels like.
[7:00] Yeah.
[7:01] And almost gave me like a goalpost to aim for.
[7:05] Okay, this is what normal feels like.
[7:07] Yeah.
[7:08] And so now as I've gotten more confident, I'm curious to know whether it's still that.
[7:13] 50 milligrams or whether it's, I've actually made a change and I don't need any more.
[7:18] So we'll see.
[7:19] When you say what normal people feel like, did you, are you sort of saying that you'd never felt that before ever or do you have any memory of feeling...
[7:27] I think it was like my dad realized he was celiac, and so he'd always had stomach issues.
[7:34] And then when he stopped eating gluten, he was like, oh, wow, this is different.
[7:37] That's kind of what sertraline felt like to me.
[7:39] I'm like, oh, this is what I felt.
[7:41] It felt like I was forgetting something, and then I remembered it.
[7:44] I'm forgetting that I'm normally very anxious right now.
[7:46] It felt like I'd dropped my keys or something.
[7:50] It felt like that.
[7:51] I'm sure I should be...
[7:54] Sweatier right now or something.
[7:57] But it took a while.
[7:58] The hard thing about – I don't know if this is everyone's experience, but in my experience it makes it worse before it gets better.
[8:03] So for a while you're taking this pill and then feeling bad that you've gone on medication and then also it's making you worse.
[8:09] But after a period it was so much better.
[8:14] And how did that influence your creativity for want of a better word?
[8:20] Yeah, it just made things more fun.
[8:21] I started to find things funner again.
[8:24] Yeah.
[8:25] Because I wasn't constantly worried about, I don't know, the usual fears that were swirling around weren't as loud.
[8:33] Yeah.
[8:33] So I was able to remember that I do enjoy this, and that's why I do it.
[8:37] I don't want it to be an ad for surgery, and I had a lot of therapy as well.
[8:40] Yeah, yeah.
[8:41] And I went for walks.
[8:44] It's an ad for walks.
[8:45] Yeah, it's an ad for walks.
[8:47] Very pro-walks.
[8:48] Yeah, no, that is a very good thing to say, to mention that therapy.
[8:53] You obviously have had incredible anxiety, but it seems like you repeatedly have a way of dealing with it, of just going, I'm just going to go all in here.
[9:03] Like that show with the nudity and the stand-up, the acting, it feels like you get to a point, and correct me if I'm wrong, this is more a question if this is how it feels for you, but where you get to a point where you're like, well, I've got nothing else to lose.
[9:18] I might as well just go for it.
[9:19] And that's the way with dealing with things a bit.
[9:21] I think it's a...
[9:23] Maybe it's me trying to remind my brain that anxiety can't hurt you.
[9:26] It can make you feel a certain way, but it's not going to make your head explode or you're not going to start bleeding from your eyes.
[9:32] There's a limit to how much damage you can do, and it's temporary.
[9:40] So I try to make a decision that's – I try and take –
[9:48] As much as I can, it's not always easy, I try and take fear out of the equation when I'm making a decision because if it's the main reason I'm not doing something is out of fear, I'm like, all right, what decision would I make if I didn't feel afraid?
[9:59] And then I try and make that decision even though I do feel scared.
[10:02] That's fascinating because I reckon a lot of people who wouldn't realize that they have
[10:07] anxiety or have anxiety at a level that hasn't been big for them would make decisions where fear influences them.
[10:15] But it's almost like because you've had such a present experience of anxiety, you've consciously been able to analyze that and take that out of the equation.
[10:23] I think it was because it was just always there for so long.
[10:26] Also, our brain's a bit, I don't know if our fight or flight was there because we used to have to run away from tigers, but now your adrenaline goes up and you start, like sweating, for example, is a way of cooling our bodies down.
[10:41] So that way, when we start to run away, our bodies are already cool.
[10:45] Like the brain's trying to help you out, but you're feeling that same level of,
[10:51] That same reaction that happens when your tiger's chasing you happens in a job interview.
[10:54] It's not useful in a job interview.
[10:56] Your brain's like, all right, if you're in a run now, I've got your adrenaline up, you're sweating, so you're not going to get cold, you're not going to get hot.
[11:03] Like, we're ready to go.
[11:05] It's like, why can't I go to this job interview?
[11:06] It's like, eh.
[11:08] But shouldn't we run away?
[11:09] No, no, I don't want to run away.
[11:10] I really want to get this job.
[11:12] It's really frustrating, even though your brain's trying to help.
[11:14] Yeah.
[11:15] And that helped me as well, knowing that my brain's trying to help.
[11:17] Yeah.
[11:17] Like, even though it's not a nice feeling to have on a date or a job interview, that's your brain going, I'm here to help.
[11:23] Yeah.
[11:24] What do you need, mate?
[11:25] Yeah.
[11:25] You want some sweat?
[11:26] Yeah.
[11:26] You got it.
[11:27] No, I don't want to sweat.
[11:28] No, thank you.
[11:29] But it is your brain trying to be nice.
[11:31] Yeah.
[11:31] Because that's all it knows how to do when you're scared.
[11:34] It's like, let's get you out of this situation.
[11:36] That reframing is so powerful.
[11:38] I had an experience with my psychologist after I went to her for probably eight years, I reckon.
[11:44] And I can't remember the name of the therapy that we did.
[11:47] But it reframed an issue that I'd had for years where I realized that I was actually, it was a part of me trying to, all I was trying to do was help me.
[11:54] Like it was trying to protect me and help me, but it had been holding me back and doing damage for a long time.
[12:00] But being able to reframe it after a lot of therapy, I must admit, as a positive just completely changed my perception of it.
[12:08] And it really was so freeing.
[12:10] Yeah, it's such a simple thing, but it's really hard to, like, you know, asking someone out, your brain doesn't want you to do that because it's worried you'll get rejected and that'll hurt.
[12:20] But, you know, it's much harder to sort of focus on the potential love that could blossom.
[12:28] I don't think we're wired that way.
[12:31] I think we're much more wired to try and avoid pain than we are to sort of seek out pleasurable experiences.
[12:39] Totally.
[12:40] Yeah.
[12:40] Totally.
[12:40] Totally.
[12:42] The Imperfects is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment.
[12:49] The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you're struggling, please see a healthcare professional or call Lifeline on 13 11 14.
[12:57] And as always, if you'd like to hear more from this conversation, you can find a link to the full episode in the show notes.

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