# Ecosystems: Find your place in the world

An episode of [DevOps Sauna from Eficode](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1474935327), 10 Jan 2023, 31 min.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2246063/episodes/13576253-ecosystems-find-your-place-in-the-world.mp3

Send us Fan Mail A discussion with Cheryl Hung, one of the keynotes speakers at The DEVOPS Conference - Copenhagen, 2022. We bring up the question: "what is cloud native?", and because it says cloud, then that means too many people that okay, cloud has to be the main thing. But you can do cloud native without using clouds! It's a way of thinking about how you're designing your system, what kind of tools you're using, what kind of ecosystem you're putting into place and pulling bits and pieces of this and thinking about things from a certain angle more than where you're actually running compute.-Watch Cheryl's talk from The DEVOPS Conference - Copenhagen, 2022: https://hubs.li/Q01xlQbG0

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