# 209. Política a las 4am \[Ft. Virginia Antares\]

An episode of [El Club de las 4AM](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1474473624), 18 Mar 2024, 56 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/59080869/4am_virginia.mp3

En el episodio de hoy conversamos con @VirginiaAntares, candidata presidencial por @opciondemocratica y la candidata presidencial más joven. Acompáñanos a conocer a la mujer detrás de las propuestas y su visión respecto a temas que nos afectan como madres. ¡Quédate con nosotras!

## Transcript

[0:00] You want to do more with your easy money. Join quick Digital Bank today,
[0:04] entering quick Do and enjoy products with more benefits and less cost. Get
[0:10] a quicker and check it out. Come with us and get to know each
[0:14] other in greater depth. Virginia Antares, face- to- face candidate from
[0:17] the Dominican Republic. Stay with us welcome to the Club of the four meters
[0:31] where we talk about the beautiful, the feilo, not politically correct, of
[0:34] the maternida, although today we are going to talk about poilglética there is,
[0:41] but not the maternity on this side. Monica Leshoren, Milo Gali' s
[0:43] mom, Lucas d nine, seven and five years old, three guys I
[0:49] love Doro. They' re amazing, but sometimes they make me want to
[0:56] give it away, they' re gonna want to give it away and ask
[0:59] for poello. I' m going to ask you back, but like for
[1:02] a month and I still decided that for a few minutes, for a reason
[1:07] I tell you well, I' m going to tell you to see that
[1:08] is going to be my so trum and to my right. We have Nicole
[1:11] resy good, mom, and octopus of how they know me in the networks
[1:17] or Nicole Resiak as they know me the one I left and the ballot I
[1:21] ' m going to vote on. Well, my mom, the man my
[1:25] mom gave me my dad. Yes and nothing, Milo' s mother of
[1:30] ja, seven and five years old, two cool kids. As Monica says,
[1:36] sometimes we want it to be challenging, but I really wouldn' t
[1:42] trade it for anything, not bad, for nothing. And then already starting
[1:46] from one and entering between brave and I want to try it takes two episodes.
[1:53] It' s not, but it occurred to me now, when we
[1:57] were so busy because you were saying that you kind of wanted to send the
[2:04] child for a ratic truth how to rest and ternet that summing up and it
[2:10] ' s up to me this weekend and so on and that my husband organized
[2:19] a trip with the boys of his course as of his best friends with the
[2:23] barons children, because it was consensually many of us have baron children and he
[2:28] dedicates a trip of boys. Then the boys' trip. I know I
[2:30] ' m going camping for a new valley. I' m left alone and
[2:37] for you, too, more totally hidden. But the tantrom is with me,
[2:42] that is, why I live saying that I need time for myself,
[2:46] that I need to rest, that I pretense you wanting to have me,
[2:51] not fucking well, but why I say that and it gives me fomo that
[2:57] is, I want to go on the trip and not car and you'
[3:01] re not going to make such a sinister issue. I want to go there,
[3:04] uh, look at the cross that I should go with more done again,
[3:07] as if not one of girls, one of girls. We do,
[3:13] too, but since we understand you, we support you and you never like
[3:16] us. We' re trying not to do anything. Take advantage of how
[3:20] rich it is to be made. You know I almost didn' t see
[3:21] a tornado no, I am, I told you, yes, I told
[3:23] you. I see a lot of padel in your future. Yeah, yeah,
[3:27] but it was nothing, but now I don' t have plans and
[3:32] I' ve painted things. That' s the truth, and that'
[3:35] s the thought of being inclusive, because I was thinking about how to organize
[3:39] home, that is, clearly, like I can be in my house alone
[3:43] and then I said no, Nicole, what chances you really have of not
[3:46] doing anything to us. I' m super good at doing nothing good,
[3:52] but we' re going to give the theme on today' s subject.
[3:54] It is a little different, true, the dynamics we have from time to
[3:58] time we do not throw away our limited politicians, we have previously brought candidates,
[4:06] public officials, also because in the end, at the end of the
[4:12] account, we who deal with maternity issues and within the initial topic, always
[4:17] put the word or not politically correct of motherhood. True, many of the
[4:21] unpolitically correct issues that have to do with motherhood, with the family, with
[4:26] women. We have to deal with it from the perspective of public policies,
[4:35] because there is no way, I mean, we do treat it from the
[4:39] medical point of view, from the human point of view of the world,
[4:43] but none of that. If there are no conditions, the conditions necessary for
[4:47] that truth germin then we cannot. So, today, we' re very
[4:51] happy to have our residential candidate from the Dominican Republic here. I wanted to
[5:01] know and I was trying to look a little, but you' re the
[5:05] first presidential woman candidate. Or at some point I think my nujo. Yeah,
[5:09] yeah, yeah, yeah, I' m the youngest presidential candidate in
[5:13] at least this contest and probably history, but I haven' t confirmed it.
[5:17] Yes, there have been presidential candidates previously in minuta Varis Mirabal as founder
[5:24] and president of the party to which I belong. A democratic option. She
[5:28] was a candidate in two thousand sixteen and that year there was also another woman
[5:32] candidate. But, as I say, yes, I am the youngest,
[5:38] yes, no, and that it is a rarity. I also mean,
[5:42] there is something that, unfortunately, is not strange, at least for our
[5:48] country. Even as you started this love of politics, because I feel that
[5:55] your whole family would be interviews. Yeah, we all went out to this
[6:00] activist. I come from a family who lived in exile during the dictatorship.
[6:04] My dad was born in Venezuela. My grandfather is a national hero. José
[6:10] Raso Rodríguez, died on an expedition in June of fifty- nine fighting with
[6:13] the dictatorship. So I think that influenced the four of us and the oatmeal
[6:17] to have many of the families who experienced those traumas. Every family processes it
[6:23] differently and in the case of my family, we had a feature here and
[6:29] it' s just that my dad always told us about it. And I
[6:31] ' m saying that because I know families that didn' t talk about it.
[6:34] But in our case, always, ever since we were kids, we
[6:38] grew up with those stories, and yes, that influenced. First we got
[6:42] the four of us into social movements. It was like where, but how
[6:46] old or good. I went to my first protest at seventeen eighteen years of
[6:51] age. I did a year of interest,Élgica, that' s the
[6:58] one of the rebels. Count as if, but come here in my country
[7:01] and this yes, there you remember. I went away with if is the
[7:04] exchange organization be Chuli, and that experience also opens your eyes a lot.
[7:09] Of course, it pulls you out of a bubble and if you give you
[7:14] references about how different things could do exactly, how much better they could work.
[7:17] And there I participated in those mobilizations that the whole world made against the
[7:23] war in Iraq. That was two thousand three and when I came back I
[7:28] got involved in a group of young people who were called is already good with
[7:31] my sister Altair, and that was my first experience. We were doing demonstrations
[7:35] in the churche. He was the medium of the economic crisis and from then
[7:39] on I always started to university, studied social communication in the little Maima and
[7:44] always kept very close to all those youth spaces. There are social movements.
[7:49] At that time there were many protests, for example, in defense of Bahia,
[7:54] the eagles, the protected areas and the presidency always, that is,
[7:57] always was your north of the girls who say I want to be president communico
[8:03] I beautiful very well, so I would love to see first a woman president
[8:09] in the Reporómicana. But we were always the master that when I was little
[8:13] I said that I or be the exact president I said that I was going
[8:16] to be a vet and Nicol was going to be President. No, I
[8:20] wanted to be an archeologist and already banished and you don' t know or
[8:26] I loved all of Mexico in paleontolga, no, but I did what I
[8:31] did in social movements too because there is still, but at that time more
[8:37] like a dominant culture, especially in the social environment, perhaps of the middle
[8:41] Dominican class, of rejection of the political, of the political party. You
[8:43] many years then neither was I as a match with which I could identify myself
[8:48] at a family level. It also happened, that is, as you stopped
[8:54] that truth, those vestiges of what your family lived, true how the approach
[9:01] to politics was. I mean, your parents, for example, were initially
[9:05] worried when you said wait for this North that I want to take the same
[9:09] take brother. Yes, no, on the one hand, my parents never
[9:16] politically militarized any parties, but they were always very active in civil society.
[9:20] My dad, for example, was one of the founders of citizen participation and
[9:24] I was twelve because he was involved. I participated in the observation that citizen
[9:30] participation in the election of one thousand nine hundred and ninety- six, which
[9:33] was a very tense election, because we came from a crisis in ninety-
[9:35] four and I, at twelve years old, was one of the volunteers who
[9:39] participated in that. So we were involved, but not in a political party,
[9:43] not militating. We do not spend many years active in social movements.
[9:48] I did my career working as a journalist. That also allowed me to learn
[9:54] more about Dominican reality. And then I went to do a master' s
[9:58] degree in England and thanks to the cashevering boz and I studied already development policies
[10:03] that analyze that. How countries develop and why one develops and others do not.
[10:07] And I came back very convinced that our country needed a new political class.
[10:11] And myself, like seeing me coming from social mobilization. That' s
[10:16] when I finished understanding Look, I have to overcome this rejection. We have
[10:18] to collectively overcome this rejection, because if we keep leaving it politics the same
[10:22] as always clear we will not see transformations. And I came up with that
[10:28] clarity, but I didn' t know where I was going to be able
[10:31] to channel that. And well, José Horacio, who is our deputy in
[10:33] Congress or Democratic Option, was my brother with whom I shared these concerns.
[10:41] I remember that we had that conversation and we gave it on the same page
[10:43] and I said UFC relieved like I don' t have to convince because,
[10:48] for example, my two sisters, the youngest and the oldest, although they
[10:52] also share these things and support us, yes, they understand that politics is
[10:56] not the space for them, she against others, they are to channel their
[11:01] cravings and their commitment to transforming a better society. But lame is it if
[11:05] we had that sheath of getting into politics, we started as if we were
[11:09] looking for space or we lived several experiences and finally, in two thousand fourteen
[11:15] minutes several look Vale begins the process of dialogue and construction of that new political
[11:20] party that I am option of mosso. We were founders and we have ten
[11:22] years in this process. So, well, it' s been ten years
[11:26] since two thousand and fourteen. You said Domérica tons four years ago, ten
[11:30] years ago, but it' s the first time we' re on the
[11:33] ballot as a democratic option. Or it was a process. Yeah, I
[11:35] guess or that' s normal, and that' s just for, I
[11:39] guess it' s hard to create a game out of nowhere. Basically yes,
[11:43] that too was not confronted with the image we had to see. We
[11:46] live in democracy, but it is not a full democracy and we live there.
[11:50] I mean, we met the requirements of the law, but we were
[11:54] denied participation for political reasons, because a line went down and they said we
[11:58] didn' t have to go to court. But which one was the woody
[12:01] one, I mean, which one was you know everyone here knows. Then
[12:05] we learned that that was a call from the palace the president of the electoral
[12:09] center that is going to be. That was not appropriate because the technicians who
[12:13] had evaluated whether we met the requirements had approved it. That' s also
[12:16] with how many games there are here. That is, yes, exactly,
[12:18] then much of these recognitions are political. They respond to us having met the
[12:24] requirements. But anyway, that' s another argument. But what I mean
[12:28] is that after ten years, we' re finally on a ballot. Then
[12:31] it' s a moment for a great achievement. Sure. Congratulations. Thank
[12:35] you. Look at you for real, something that happens a lot here.
[12:39] First people listen to us, not only from the Dominican Republic, that is,
[12:43] people all over the world, also from the diaz for Dominicana in other
[12:48] countries and perhaps not so aware. But I also believe that even here there
[12:56] are, as yet except for some specific campaigns, such as yours, we
[13:01] are not very clear as to what these proposals are, what are where they
[13:07] stand, true, and that we can also enter into everything where the complex
[13:11] here, the absence of debate, the absence of responsibility to deposit their government
[13:16] plan and everything else. But I would like this space to be an opportunity
[13:20] for us, which we also have above all many and have been very surprised
[13:26] by you would think that our listeners are mostly mothers more or less of the
[13:33] age of us, but there are so many young young people who write to
[13:37] us, what they are learning about women, about motherhood, about these issues
[13:43] with us and what to do first with their first electoral experience. So let
[13:50] ' s get that person simple and talk a little bit about those proposals that
[13:54] you have and which one is more or less your North for and what you
[14:01] bring to the table for this electoral contest. Of course I do, but
[14:05] since it' s a podcast and a space so original, I don'
[14:09] t want to come and give my typical political speech either. Not because that
[14:13] ' s not why you know I don' t. I did want to
[14:18] say also before going into that matter, that it is good that the public
[14:22] is diverse, because I am not a mother. I haven' t had
[14:26] that blessing, because I recognize a blessing. I don' t know,
[14:30] I' m not locked. I know that there are also women who say
[14:31] that there is no one in their way, and that everyone decides. In
[14:37] my case, I never feel like the time has come for me to say.
[14:39] This is what I want in my life and this is the time.
[14:41] I don' t rule it out. But if it doesn' t,
[14:45] then nothing happens either. I' m but you' re a daughter,
[14:48] you' re a son, I' m a daughter and I have nephews
[14:54] and I have many people dear and I have a sister who' s waiting
[14:56] for such a term. So I know it' s gonna be my family
[14:58] ' s first new generation baby. Wow. Then we' re very excited.
[15:03] That' s chilly. But I was thinking when I came to this
[15:07] space, one thing that was very clear to me is that I wanted to
[15:11] share. That' s what I think in the end, and a little
[15:16] bit of you said at the beginning, Nichole. Motherhood is a political act.
[15:20] There is an author that I like very much, his name is George
[15:24] Lakof who analyzes why the person and why societies. We have a tendency to
[15:28] be more conservative and more authoritarian or to be more liberal and more progressive.
[15:33] And a lot of where that comes from has to do with breeding models.
[15:39] And I say this because I believe in it in the end. What brings
[15:41] me to politics is the possibility of building a society where we live better,
[15:46] fairer, more sustainable, more inclusive, less violent, and a very violent
[15:50] society with more opportunities, etc. And a lot of that happens to heal
[15:58] many shas, many wounds, s c h sns, traumas of that violence
[16:02] And I connected I had never seen it that way, thinking of coming in
[16:06] this podcast, loppintsem that is very interesting the work that you do, because
[16:11] you analyze, make a process of awareness about that exercise of motherhood and those
[16:18] models of upbringing, comes out much of the models that will govern society.
[16:23] So we come from a very authoritarian heritage of that collective trauma that was the
[16:29] dictatorship that was Balaguer' s twelve years and all the previous history truth that
[16:33] we carry and I believe that part of the challenge that we have as a
[16:38] society to build a more democratic and inclusive society goes by changing those patterns of
[16:45] upbringing towards mos of the healthiest. Yes, and in that sense, I
[16:48] love what you do. Oh thank you, thank you, and in that
[16:56] same order, that is, as you well say motherhood and we have a
[17:03] very important role as the nucleus of the family of going molding little heads.
[17:14] Truth and I think we take this possibility very seriously and try to dig a
[17:18] lot, try to find out what' s right, how we break as
[17:25] you say those patterns, but often also just one against the current regarding the
[17:33] facilities that are provided to us. I mean, I understand that in a
[17:37] country as much as in a country with a lot of family culture, it
[17:44] ' s not a country as well as how I say it fit for the
[17:51] family, that is, we' ve always found the way in which you
[17:55] walk in the streets, that' s how you experience an exact convencia or
[18:00] coexistence in a city to really live the city and come a lot of obstacles.
[18:04] Education, that is, health is very important. There is a country
[18:11] that, unfortunately, has many S authorities taking into account that very important part
[18:18] of the family and I think that many times it is a north of the
[18:26] majority of the entire Dominican citizen. We' re gonna protect the family,
[18:30] we' re gonna take care of the family, but really, how do
[18:33] you do that? I mean, how do you do that from any kind
[18:37] of political position, not just the one you' re boasting about. Right.
[18:44] Yes, I totally agree, because in the end, when we talk
[18:48] about a better society, a better society for all the people they have and
[18:49] all belong to a family, yes, and at some point we were children,
[18:53] at some point aware then yes and especially you Santo Domingo is also going
[18:59] to become. It has a very hostile city for the most vulnerable people,
[19:03] including children. But then exactly how we change that and what are those policies
[19:08] that could have an impact within the program of governments that we present in a
[19:15] democratic option and that can be downloaded into my virginative networks. That' s
[19:21] where you can see the whole thing. But yes, I would like to
[19:22] point out some of the policies that are most connected with these issues. One
[19:26] of them is good for us. It is a pillar and a priority for
[19:32] education. I say that education in this country has never been a political priority
[19:36] entirely. Yes, it is a priority for the Dominican people. That'
[19:40] s why families live here and do their best to give them one so they
[19:44] can have a private education. The Dominican people marched in a movement that is
[19:48] an international reference, of a peaceful citizen movement for education, because the Dominican
[19:52] knows that education is a priority, but the political class has never assumed it.
[19:59] And part of our proposal then to make education a real political priority and
[20:03] make a profound transformation of the public education system so that it ceases to be
[20:08] and this is something that happens in many areas of the state, but in
[20:11] education probably one of the most serious that the state ceases to be a political
[20:17] loot to which the parties arrive to distribute and distribute jobs to those who campaigned,
[20:22] not those who are better prepared or who meet the requirements, but by
[20:26] political commitments. This compromises the quality of the functioning of these public institutions.
[20:33] So, for that we need parties that come to power under other logics,
[20:37] that is not that clientele logic of I' m going to give you,
[20:41] I' m going to have that policy for me that there is for itself.
[20:42] Yes, yes, it' s not the collective good, but it
[20:47] ' s literally exactly what it is, unfortunately, the policy that has dominated
[20:51] in the Dominican Republic. And once we can come up with that logic.
[20:55] There are many things we can do to improve the public education system in the
[20:59] Dominican Republic. Starting with improving and strengthening teacher training and also making a thorough
[21:06] assessment of the curriculum, because the world we are living in requires that we
[21:10] begin to train people with a much more comprehensive vision. It' s not
[21:15] just about learning to read, write and add and subtract, and I think
[21:18] much of the private education sector has been very clear about it. Many of
[21:25] the best schools in the country have this vision of comprehensive training, training in
[21:30] values, but in the public sector that has been abandoned. Notice that here
[21:33] was suspended what was the moral and civic class, which was perhaps a little
[21:37] bit the equivalent. I imagine that now, as the basics are, mathematics,
[21:41] history, language, a lot of emphasis, there is a lot of
[21:45] emphasis, on the items, on the sciences, etc, that are important
[21:49] and that come are there or on the bilinkic education. Okay, but we
[21:52] need to strengthen the training. We are proposing a subject that is called organization
[21:57] and participation for people to get out of high school. Understanding how society works,
[22:03] what its duty is as a citizen with an awareness that they must make
[22:07] an informed vote, understanding how democracy works. But also understanding things more after
[22:14] more, like the tax system, exactly that, how they do the imposed,
[22:21] a non- profit association, not all those issues that speak a day
[22:23] of road education, which we have one of the highest exact accidents in the
[22:29] world. So that vision of using education and the public education system as a
[22:33] tool to transform, if you want, the social fabric of the same mumbarte
[22:37] is a fundamental component of our proposal. And then there are other proposals that
[22:45] have to do more specifically with the health and protection of women and girls and
[22:48] boys. And there are issues as we are one of the countries that have
[22:55] the highest preventable maternal and infant mortality rate in the region. That is to
[23:00] say, women still die giving birth here and it is a product of a
[23:06] abandonment and a bad state of the public health system in general, which affects
[23:11] everything, but women affect us especially in that regard. And we also have
[23:17] a commitment to improve, to improve investment in education, which is one of
[23:19] the smallest in public education and, above all, the management of that public
[23:22] health system. And then there are also issues that have to do with child
[23:30] protection, as I said it is. We are committed to comprehensive sex education
[23:33] in the Dominican Republic. We know it' s a controversial issue, but
[23:40] the level of teenage pregnancy that we have here, all the implications that that
[23:45] has respond part to that we' re not giving youth the tools to enter
[23:51] adult life and the tools to be able to identify harassment, abuse, be
[23:56] able to report it and be able to make conscious decisions about their sexuality,
[24:03] about their life project. Of course you can plan your football. Even harassment
[24:04] here is typified, that is, it is not only typified even in the
[24:10] working environment exclusively, that is to say it is something he hears. We
[24:15] live harassment in any evils, that is, all the women I know,
[24:18] in some way or another, without defendants and well, Monica works with that
[24:23] dead theme of a foundation is called Foundation in power Dominican woman, and we
[24:29] help super women with the topic of planning their future. We work together with
[24:34] pro family. We have, I allowed and to a subject that we care
[24:38] very much about and the truth that you say that controversial, and that part
[24:41] I love, because we have tried gout, we have dealt with topics here
[24:48] we got an episode about the three causals. Yes, it' s worth
[24:55] the exact source and in the end, I wanted to ask you that question
[25:00] because we who don' t have this space and the times we' ve
[25:06] touched on issues that are controversial or considered controversial, we confess that above all
[25:12] mony who gives him a pain in the way of a little school in days
[25:18] before we leave this episode, we get nervous how long and then it comes
[25:23] and it' s published and it' s true there' s a certain
[25:27] comment, but most of it' s fine. I mean, I feel
[25:29] like our listeners are pretty much the same page as us. That' s
[25:33] good. But regardless of always you get your truth, negative comments, baseless
[25:38] comments and also who expresses his opinion true how it has been, because you
[25:47] do a different kind of policy than we are used to. How has been
[25:55] that handling of swimming against the current, Sometimes it is literally and how that
[26:04] too and this is already more personal, that how it has affected you on
[26:07] a personal level, also as a woman. As a woman Yes, because
[26:14] we too are experiencing a difficult time and this is on a global level,
[26:18] but also here Dominican Republic, which is a positioning of discourses and attitudes that
[26:27] are undemocratic. In what sense there is a hate speech that installs the idea
[26:33] that if you think differently, you must be crushed already, you must be
[26:37] humiliated. It' s legitimate and I say that' s undemocratic, because
[26:42] democracy is based on accepting that we can have different positions and, in saying
[26:48] well, let' s listen, let' s discuss it and let'
[26:52] s see how we find a middle point or how ultimately, we decide in
[26:56] a majority, respecting that who I think differently can eventually convince the majority.
[27:00] But, unfortunately, you know what. There is talk of democratic waves in
[27:04] the world and it is said that with the third wave of democratization it has
[27:08] ended and now I take a step backwards and these attitudes and the positioning of
[27:14] those discourses are part of that. So, that' s why I say
[27:17] that they are on these kinds of issues, especially issues that have to do
[27:19] with rights with identities, those discourses are used a lot, that they Boycott
[27:26] dialogue. So, I believe in that, that' s why we in
[27:30] democratic choice, believe in rights, believe in comprehensive sex education, but we
[27:34] understand that we have to be open to debate them, because we give a
[27:37] moment when there are no consensuses, then we debate them from dialogue, from
[27:42] listening and recognizing that many people who sometimes have opposing positions, have concerns that
[27:48] are valid, of course, and that need to be addressed yes exactly.
[27:49] Nor can you devalidate your opinion exactly, it would be doing the same thing
[27:56] back and how it affects us is difficult. I think being part of a
[28:00] community helps a lot and I think it' s something we' re living
[28:06] collectively. I mean, I live it perhaps as at the moment as a
[28:11] political actor, as a political figure, but I see, for example,
[28:15] many very good journalists from this country who, by defending situations, live a
[28:19] very unfair media harassment, and I feel solidarity. But I also say in
[28:25] my case, I feel supported that there is a community and a party,
[28:29] there is a political sector that supports us, but it is definitely difficult.
[28:33] It' s challenging and but I appeal that in the end what you say
[28:37] harmonic. In the end, I think most people are sensible and are connecting
[28:41] with an idea that makes sense, but they are even shambles. In the
[28:48] episodes we' ve done, yes, we' ve seen comments about wow.
[28:52] I' ve thought this way and now I see it differently, and
[28:57] that' s how people need clear information and I need practical information, real
[29:04] information, no end vias yes, and let' s say that I'
[29:08] m not extremist, because then what happens because I fear the extreme. Yeah,
[29:12] there' s like baby stops and it' s like you can get
[29:18] that trend. There is a tendency to the extreme of one perspective of the
[29:22] other. And it' s very good. Already there throwing me more and
[29:26] not as an inspiration, but yes, the same social networks lead us to
[29:32] that. You understand how what the content is consumed with that exact tadean and
[29:37] algorithm all of a sudden just exact. And the truth that polarizes, that
[29:44] is, polarizes on one side and on the other. But already entering perhaps
[29:49] a little bit your experience as a woman, How has it been we speak
[29:57] right now, as there are few experiences of presidential candidate right? How has
[30:04] it been the experience as a woman how they make you as a young woman
[30:11] And as a young woman exactly how it has felt to you, because it
[30:15] happens a lot and especially in this country, that one feels that for you
[30:19] to get to certain positions, not just politicians, even business and so on,
[30:26] like one has to climb a big ladder and last a long time.
[30:26] And like the famous Dominican saying that a child speaks when the hen has a
[30:34] culture, let' s say that you have to be either a certain age
[30:41] or you have to cover these boxes, that you have to be, for
[30:45] example, married to children for your being a mother of Catholic government. How
[30:51] you' ve felt about that experience and let' s say your opinion about
[30:53] it. I' ve got a lot of them. If you want advantages
[31:00] as a woman in politics, I think it' s important to remind people
[31:06] of the Dominican Republic as well. The area where there is the most gender
[31:10] gap is in politics, that is, according to the report, for example,
[31:12] of the World Economic Forum that analyzes you in education, in health,
[31:17] in the labor market there are gaps, but where there is the most frequent
[31:21] in politics. Not only as I told you we' ve never had a
[31:23] woman President, but the most we' ve had, for example, in
[31:26] the Senate of thirty- two senators has been four women. At the best
[31:30] moment we haven' t even arrived thirty percent of the National Congress to occupy
[31:34] the sites in the worst and worst City Hall we were twelve percent and I
[31:37] think that goes down a little bit. Now in the last elections to eighty
[31:41] - eight percent of the city halls so presided over by men. So there
[31:45] are very few women in politics beyond the barriers imposed on them many times by
[31:51] the parties themselves, because the majority of the leaders of the parties so dominated
[31:53] by men, and that influences that the possibility of another woman to participate or
[31:57] beyond participating, to receive support in their campaigns, for example, because much
[32:01] of the party can have a great influence on which campaigns support Dominican politics more
[32:07] or not. Unfortunately, as money and campaigns are not regulated, campaigns understand
[32:15] to be very expensive and women have good access to recourse to finance, etc,
[32:21] and we tend to be more economically dependent. There are more women dependent
[32:27] on economics than men. So, all those factors influence. But there is
[32:30] one factor that for me, in my experience, is the strongest, especially
[32:35] in a party as a democratic option, where there are many women, and
[32:37] it is the availability of time. We women have the famous double- time
[32:44] that, although we have entered the labour market, we continue to carry the
[32:46] greatest amount, with the greatest family responsibility on average. In the Dominican Republic,
[32:52] women, according to some surveys, devote three times in other studies,
[32:58] four times more hours a week to unpaid domestic work than men, and that
[33:02] is three times less time to make politics totally clear. Then the fact that
[33:07] I have no children, for example, gives me an advantage of being able
[33:10] to devote myself more fully and of having that time. And there are other
[33:17] women' s women' s women in politics too, which aren' t
[33:20] so obvious either. But they are there that are, for example, the
[33:22] demands that are made to a political woman in terms of image, they are
[33:27] stronger than a man, the time and money that you really have to devote
[33:30] to them the exact time, because a man gets up, puts on his
[33:34] sack and goes away, that is, truth, it is true a woman
[33:37] who is hair, who has to look presentable, who has to put on
[33:43] a little makeup. Yeah, yeah, and I give you a lot of
[33:45] hard song. They judge you together completely, always women will judge you more
[33:50] when on what occasions you have felt judged the most, and so within your
[33:54] political career. No, and that' s what he' s gonna say
[33:57] back there. I think I' m wearing it, too. It has
[34:00] been positive because in my case it has been a very enriching experience to have
[34:06] to work my majesty. It' s true, yes, it was the
[34:08] main otions of my weakness, because it wasn' t something I had never
[34:14] been, but I hadn' t been aware of it, it wasn'
[34:15] t whole. It had never been my exact priority. And it' s
[34:17] touched me, because now it' s a little bit more thought out or
[34:21] there can already be an exact public person, and that' s all.
[34:23] Then the image is important. It' s yes and in my case it
[34:28] hasn' t been fun. It' s been fun. But that could
[34:30] be it. It is a challenge because it requires time, resources, etcetera.
[34:35] Of course, but in general, I think the most important thing is
[34:38] to create space, that is, for women to be welcomed into politics.
[34:43] That can only be achieved by other women. So, if I' m
[34:45] here today, it' s because many have opened the way before me For
[34:51] example, Democratic Option is one of the three thirty- something parties that has
[34:54] been recognized right now that is chaired by a woman. That makes a difference,
[34:59] of course, it is the first joint party, that is, in
[35:02] half of the positions of all the leaderships are women there, for example,
[35:07] we have sometimes that was consciously yes, that was a discussion that we had
[35:12] of the statutes and applied it and in every election process that we make,
[35:15] of the territorial leadership, of the political leadership, we do it democratically.
[35:21] But space is half man, half women, and when it is filled with
[35:24] one, it is given the next most voted of the other. Or,
[35:27] as you say, it applies in favor of either gender. In most cases
[35:30] it has been applied in favor of men, which has generated a whole discussion
[35:34] of this plactive, because it may still be that we have women, because
[35:37] it is historically there has been more men. That' s why it'
[35:40] s a good issue, so we decide and apply it. That' s
[35:44] good, how good do you feel that politics is dirty more than Dirty?
[35:50] There' s a lot of people who mean, there' s a lot
[35:55] of dirty politics, but more than Dirty is unfair right now Dominican Republic,
[36:00] because the system to see. For competition to be fair, rules must be
[36:05] established and the political class here has refused to do so for decades. This
[36:09] discussion has come since the 1990s when it was said that an electoral law must
[36:14] be passed, in a law of parties that regulate the campaigns of society.
[36:16] Twenty years passed, some projects were agreed upon which was very good and in
[36:21] the end, in two thousand eighteen two thousand nineteen, the traditional parties that
[36:24] controlled in Congress, what they did was to test some laws to say that
[36:28] they tried it, but not to take into account everything that had been agreed
[36:30] upon. They tried some laws a little to legitimize the current state of affairs,
[36:35] which is a very unequal competition in terms of so many resources from the
[36:39] resource of what the State is distributing to the parties, which is very unevenly
[36:43] distributed. Eighty percent are now handed over to it four parties, of those
[36:45] thirty- five, eighty percent of the fund as well as private financing,
[36:50] which is much greater than public funding and which is not clearly regulated then in
[36:53] another country does not pass exactly or first that danger to democracy, because here
[36:59] there are candidates that are being financed by illicit sectors in s and that leads
[37:02] to the capture of the or positions of power by sectors such as drug trafficking.
[37:09] That' s terrible. But also, even within legal financing. If
[37:15] you want to, if you don' t put limits, it' s
[37:19] an unequal competition, because in other countries you can' t, simply because
[37:22] you have more money to put up all the fence you want or all the
[37:23] TV ad. That' s regulated,' cause that thing can' t
[37:27] wait for you. I have money from Hamer Jooe clear, for example,
[37:30] right now you want to put up a fence to get enough money to put
[37:34] a fence in the city are already taken. You know that' s not
[37:37] fair. Then, in other countries it is established. In Chile, for
[37:42] example, it is said by the Gaza Strip, which is the television space
[37:45] in which the parties are announced and those are that I know twenty minutes in
[37:49] the morning, the half day, in the night and there all the parties
[37:52] enter. Then there is a space, a clear machine competition and, above
[37:55] all, the space of debates, which is the stage, my equitable,
[37:59] that you can see for yourself to exchange ideas and contrast ideas, the trajectory
[38:07] that really present your exact. That' s why we hope it' s
[38:12] a debate. In fact, these days there was a debate of candidates for
[38:15] district senator, district deputy and hopefully they will continue, because that is very
[38:20] important and they also show who are the person that the parties are presenting for
[38:24] that position is so important and I think that is also why there is a
[38:29] lot of fear of the debate. I ask and I am in associations,
[38:36] for example, I participate actively in the session of young businesswoman and what to
[38:42] lead angel N s exactly and I sometimes sit in meetings and it is like
[38:49] before, when I participated as a volunteer in the debates of the two thousand
[38:57] twenty, that only became, of that is angel, only became because just
[39:04] after the pandemic came the mayors. Exactly, yes, but when we were
[39:13] at all the meetings and the whole thing and everything was a mystery that if
[39:16] they' re going to participate, they' re going to say that the
[39:20] last second you don' t know if the debates are going or not going.
[39:22] And I said in my innocence. But why would people not want to
[39:27] go where they' re going? Why is it not important, why,
[39:34] like I see it as wow a good opportunity to reach anyone who exposes what
[39:39] is true and what has to be brought to the table, that is,
[39:45] but that' s the best hardware. Then one also realizes listen is that
[39:51] the first one who is not afraid and second, the political cost that can
[39:57] have truth, the tube being exposed to you and that they expose something that
[40:01] is not in a script that your person who uncharges your campaign understands and what
[40:07] happens. I want a leader who is not clear about what I am asking
[40:21] him about such basic things as what your policies are about this, this and
[40:24] this that he cannot discuss with a person who has a but or opinion face
[40:31] - to- face debate in the five, in two thousand sixteen exactly.
[40:36] There was a stage. I don' t know much debate because it didn
[40:39] ' t go on much exchange, but they were all there. I'
[40:42] d rather go outside, they were your exact presentation. They were loaned,
[40:45] like, seven or eight candidates. I remember because Minu participated in this debate.
[40:50] I think that was a good first experience. But in two thousand twenty,
[40:52] not six, no, and there' s very little really culture of
[40:57] that. And I think that is to say that he celebrated, that it
[41:00] is doing and that there are also groups advocating for truth and debate. What
[41:07] you say they don' t want to participate, which is who usually has
[41:10] that attitude, is who has the most advantage, because if you' re
[41:15] winning the debate, they could tend the thing about you losing your vote.
[41:17] But in the end the debate is the most important scenario for the new commers,
[41:22] for those who are understanding, because a scenario in which you can be
[41:25] made known and that many people can integrate, for example, our challenge.
[41:29] Right now that people find out that the excellent candidacy, there is a party
[41:32] that is offering different candidate, then the debate of a stage par excellence.
[41:37] For that, how has it been to reach the masses, because we were
[41:45] talking here, that is, we can run for office. I see it
[41:50] as known, but of course I have people I follow you in the networks,
[41:55] but how is it to get to every corner of the Dominican Republic and
[41:59] also how what has been your experience about it and the reception We will say
[42:05] so of others, of other cities, of other villages. That has to
[42:08] do with the electoral strategy that you define and, above all, that'
[42:12] s something that changes over time, not the same as you did the job
[42:15] decades ago, that how it was done ten years ago, that' s
[42:21] how it' s done now. So, now, for example, we
[42:23] ' ve done a lot of efasin in privi is social networks, because the
[42:30] level of investment in resource time that you spend to reach the number of people
[42:34] brings you that logic. And garlic that we are one of the countries with
[42:37] the greatest in the region, with the greatest access to Cellular, we have
[42:45] to Cellar percate put a lot of smart forne that yes for some reason it
[42:50] is can be effective. A lot of media tours as well, both me
[42:53] and our candidate to different level all the time. I see your favorite part
[42:59] you like. It does because in the end there is like dialogue with people.
[43:04] Or that' s not a pretty part, but I also enjoy the
[43:07] other element, which is going to places, because nothing has as much strength
[43:12] as face to face. Then the holding of meetings of activities in the territories,
[43:17] the tours, the flyers, the house, the hand- to-
[43:22] hand. That' s also important, because there you too come into contact
[43:25] with many people who are from very different social circles, of very different geography
[43:30] and territory, and you can hear firsthand what the problems are, what they
[43:36] think that, those are like the big parties that make the caravans then like
[43:43] the team, of course, like the equivalent. Yeah, no, because
[43:47] the caravans are more of a show of strength. There' s not much
[43:51] room in the caravan. I mean, the candidate is up in a hiccup
[43:54] waving from his position, exactly from a demonstration. We have power. People
[44:00] say I' m as hard as there' s a pile that kicks because
[44:04] it can cr on or color no longer if you' re real that'
[44:07] s the real school. Yes, I' m talking to Vicky, who
[44:13] works at my house, and with the issue of when the last elections,
[44:16] the elections of the deputies, don' t forgive the municipal ones. Such
[44:24] hours, my word always goes away. I asked him how you voted yes
[44:30] what did win mine. But I do, so I do. I mean,
[44:35] it' s like it looks like a bet to say okay in yours
[44:37] I won the day. I have as something almost as an exact sport as
[44:42] if it were a ball team how we won. But then there' s
[44:46] a lot of that, and in the Dominican case, there' s a
[44:50] lot of clientelism in the calaman, so there' s caravaneras that distribute money,
[44:52] they spread out. Salami good came out in the paper. I didn
[44:58] ' t really read it, but I heard he came out in the period
[45:00] of a candidate who was asking back what he had given him because he didn
[45:04] ' t win. Yes, it is very regrettable, because it is especially
[45:07] if you go to the small territories, in the municipalities. It is the
[45:09] political culture that the parties have established and you have good people who are involved
[45:14] in it simply because you see no other alternative then the titanic work. If
[45:17] you want us to be trying to be an alternative and to teach people that
[45:22] they don' t have to be like this or to give them a choice,
[45:25] because people know it. And I' m very surprised that even in
[45:29] the less resourced neighborhoods of this country you meet people. I remember a young
[45:36] woman who studied nursing in the guandul in a tour we did in Gualailo Oandul
[45:40] who give you an anti- client speech criticizing that relationship. If you want
[45:45] toxic, who dominates parties with the poor, to give him things and then
[45:50] forget public service that doesn' t work and criticize that with a level of
[45:53] citizen consciousness that is nice and that you think that' s going good obvious,
[45:59] that' s not everyone, but there are many people like that everywhere,
[46:01] in this country. There is a generation that does, that has a
[46:06] conscience, yes and that when you tell it, that happens that if they
[46:07] are all the same, you say. Well, I' m gonna sell
[46:09] my vote, but if you okay and tell her look, we' re
[46:12] trying to do something different. I' m not gonna give you to vote
[46:15] for me. On the contrary, I' m going to tell you to
[46:17] support me if you can, because my commitment is not if I already buy
[46:22] you the vote and I don' t tell you anything. I' m
[46:22] here to benefit myself. My commitment is to come to make the State institutions
[46:27] work well, to make public services work and work. And back to the
[46:31] issue of women, that we were talking about the time that women still have
[46:36] a double burden of time. One of the public policies that can have the
[46:39] greatest impact on freeing women time and improving their quality of life, both to
[46:44] be able to integrate more into the labour market or politics or to enjoy life
[46:49] and have better mental health, is quality public services. Of course, because
[46:53] those who carry the extra cost of not having water and then having to devote
[46:58] themselves to finding water, collecting water, having no light and everything that is
[47:00] involved for when you need to cook or clothes. That is to say,
[47:05] we are women, of course in politics too, that is, in general,
[47:07] our entire policy, which is aimed at strengthening the functioning of public services
[47:12] It is in the interests of women and also the proposals that we have to
[47:16] strengthen what is or is to create, because there is no national care system.
[47:22] What are all these care facilities, not only of early childhood, that
[47:27] part of the need to strengthen the education system, but also of elderly people,
[47:30] older adults of persons with disabilities who are two highly abandoned populations or of
[47:36] forgotten countries and whose care rests with families. But when we say family we
[47:45] are saying women, women, we are the women who end up taking care
[47:50] of our entire father, our grandfather, to take care of the child who
[47:53] has a special condition. So that impacts on maintaining those inequalities and it is
[47:58] also part of our government program in our commitment to create those spaces, because
[48:01] it is a role of the state, it is a way to democratize the
[48:07] cost of motherhood in people' s lives. I believe that the people here
[48:10] do not know what the role of the State, that is, does not
[48:15] know what the role of the State entails. They think like very Narroman of
[48:21] you. You know very closed, very closed. Yes no, and it
[48:23] ' s also a culture issue, so I do what I do for more
[48:28] than education. But I, you, who come from a you coming from
[48:34] a background truth of activism and seeing you actively participating in processes like the cuad
[48:46] theme, the four percent claim for education, environmental issue and so on.
[48:52] I listen to you talk about how we have, that is, to get
[48:59] and water the true voice about everything that everything, first, everything that proposes,
[49:05] but also everything that the people need. It' s hard, but
[49:14] you' ve done it before. I mean, I imagine that within those
[49:17] active activism movements started two and three were like four people who were in the
[49:23] band company four years ago and that was growing massively in what was happening during
[49:30] the week. I mean, I think sometimes we see this guy, we
[49:35] see a candidacy like yours, and I' m gonna make you a hundred
[49:37] percent honest and say sinking how hard he has it. That is, it
[49:42] must be very difficult to start from scratch and start from below and start well
[49:47] and start without recourse, without the unlimited resources that they have, for example,
[49:54] the current positions or I' m partying it with a lot of influence,
[50:00] but I really believe that there is something when people no longer endure,
[50:08] that can be more powerful than all the money in the world. And I
[50:12] think it is that strategy that is taking you the difficult path, the path
[50:16] that we women also have in many other ways, but it is not impossible,
[50:28] nor totally. And thanks to Nicole because you just gave my speech.
[50:35] That' s why, President, it' s that you' re living
[50:42] it for me exactly, no, but thank you really for coming in that
[50:49] you would give a message to the listeners, a final message to the podcast
[50:52] listeners. Yeah, why should they vote for you why would they vote for
[50:59] you? To say this differently than I' ve always said. Look at
[51:02] something I liked about you, too, that you work. They' ve
[51:07] talked about the anxiety of healing the inner child, the positions of power.
[51:12] I imagine the economic world as well, but in politics where I studied it,
[51:15] where I saw it, I lived it and I live it in positions
[51:17] of power. What they do is they magnify the capabilities that we have both
[51:24] to do good and to make the sea. And in the case of political
[51:28] power, when people have not healed internal wounds, we can use that space
[51:35] to replicate that seriousness, magnify those wounds. And here come the authoritarian leaderships.
[51:44] And I say it here in this program because I think part of what
[51:49] has done so much damage to politics is that there have been many people who
[51:52] arrive for closed reasons and come trying to find that validation or that feeling of
[51:58] importance, that they have not had and that they are wounded, that they
[52:02] have not healed and above all, they have been men, that is a
[52:07] different dynamic. So I think that, to the extent that more women,
[52:10] that we have different experiences, we have different sensitivities and experiences, and above
[52:16] all, more women and conscious people that have done or that we have done,
[52:22] because I include those processes of internal healing, which are permanent, that
[52:24] never end, but that involve an internal transformation to the extent that people like
[52:31] this occupy more positions of power. I insist both on the economic world and
[52:36] on the political world. That is going to translate into healthier societies, where
[52:39] decisions are made thinking about how we can all flourish, protect ourselves, feel
[52:45] cared for, meet our needs, recognize the needs that we all have,
[52:51] and not just thinking about how this can benefit me now in a momentary way.
[52:57] It is a very different invitation from no or to which I have made
[53:00] all the spaces, but I think that is why it is worth voting for
[53:04] me as a presidential candidate and, in general, also inviting them to look
[53:07] for the candidates and democratic option, who are people who also have a lot,
[53:13] a lot of conscience, who are doing different politics, who are starting
[53:17] from another motivation and who I told them I was telling Javier, my husband,
[53:21] or the other days we know, for example, Samuel and we brought
[53:24] him to Chinese this morning to that cute space and my husband, that we
[53:34] could, just said good to see people who I know have prepared for that
[53:43] understand and not, and the dream that everyone, from anywhere, from any
[53:47] corner of the Dominican Republic, can say I have prepared you for that kind
[53:52] of position too. But when you see someone who has studied, who knows
[54:00] it thoroughly, who doesn' t take it the light that has that sensitivity
[54:04] also because he has lived it, who hasn' t given it all on
[54:07] a silver platter, you don' t understand either. That' s something
[54:12] that I personally identify with and it' s good because it' s so
[54:16] fat. Yeah, I' m doing like a little waiter, like it
[54:21] makes me very happy how good. That' s the idea of returning hope.
[54:23] The motto of this campaign is power. It' s people' s.
[54:25] Then an invitation to get involved, to participate, and Martin Luther Kine
[54:30] said that it is not enough to be good. You have to organize and
[54:37] defend good as actively as you do what I have been defending bad or bad
[54:42] mckel I would say you are private that you are not the collective good.
[54:45] So that' s why it' s also worth supporting this project, this
[54:50] candidacy. And thank you very much, really, for the opportunity to be
[54:52] in this very different space. Thanks to the good guy. You know first
[54:59] of all that every listener should vote yes, that is a citizen duty.
[55:06] There is also a responsibility that we have and a right above all, and
[55:12] after this, also invite you to follow us on our social networks. The
[55:16] four a m club is also the Patoon where we publish these episodes. We
[55:22] immediately recorded them and nothing follows us listening week after week. See you next
[55:28] Monday, CHAUE.

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