# Road To Perdition (2002) | Ep. 64 - Part 1

An episode of [All The Right Movies](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1471502633), 5 Sep 2025, 1 h 04 min.

Audio: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/APO9652056792.mp3

Sam Mendes follows up American Beauty with a gangster tragedy soaked in rain and regret. Luke, Westy, and Matt begin the story of how Mendes turned a graphic novel into one of the most beautiful crime films ever shot.In Part 1 we cover the film's opening, director Sam Mendes, the cast, and the second act — including Tom Hanks cast against type as a mob enforcer and Paul Newman in one of his final great roles.Part 2, covering the crew, the finale, reception, and the film's legacy, is available now. Connect with ATRM: To support what we do, access our archive and listen to exclusive episodes, become an ATRM patron: Listen on Patreon Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify Twitter/X: @ATRightMovies YouTube: Subscribe to our channel Instagram: @allthe_rightmovies Threads: @allthe_rightmovies Facebook: Join our movie group Bluesky: @alltherightmovies.com TikTok: @alltherightmovies Website: alltherightmovies.com

## Transcript

[0:04] All the right movies. Michael, are you hurt?
[0:11] You saw everything. You are not to speak of this to
[0:15] anyone, you understand Not to anyone.
[0:20] Who's this? It's one of yours.
[0:25] He must have been hiding in the car.
[0:28] Or can he keep a secret? He's my son.
[0:35] Bob enforcer Michael Sullivan finds his world torn apart when
[0:38] his son is witness to a gangland slaying.
[0:40] With his family in tatters, Michael and his son hit the road
[0:43] in search of vengeance and a journey that will test the bonds
[0:46] between them. Sam Mendez's multilayered
[0:48] generational saga transformed Tom Hanks into an unlikely anti
[0:52] hero and gave Paul Newman a poignant farewell performance.
[0:55] Shot by one of the great cinematographers, wrote to
[0:57] Perdition is a poetic tale of violence and loyal in depression
[1:00] to Euro America. My name is Luke, and the two
[1:02] fellas with me who rule this town as God rules the earth are
[1:06] Matt. You're a big baby who doesn't
[1:08] know his thumb for this Dick. And Westie.
[1:10] Let's drink him to God. Let's hope he gets to heaven at
[1:13] least an hour before the devil finds out he's dead.
[1:16] All the right movies are on the road to perdition, and there's
[1:18] only one guarantee none of us will see heaven.
[1:40] Hi everyone, welcome to All the Right Movies, a podcast on
[1:42] classic and hit films that's also fucking hysterical.
[1:46] It sure is frequently, yeah. Very good.
[1:49] Very. Good manner of taste, I suppose.
[1:51] Obviously, yeah. On the show we tell the story of
[1:54] Hollywood one film at a time and this week we're travelling down
[1:57] a rain soaked Rd. through depression era America as we
[2:00] uncover the incredible behind the scenes story of Sam Mendes's
[2:03] haunting masterpiece. Oh, huge.
[2:07] Big one. Before we step into the darkness
[2:09] in 1931, though, he is some information about becoming an
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[3:32] And now it's back to 1931 and this was your pick, Westie.
[3:35] Need I see anymore? A film that you've raved about
[3:39] since it came out. It was only a matter of time.
[3:41] It was only a matter of time. Yeah.
[3:43] It's been one that I've been waiting to put up, one I've been
[3:45] really, really excited to talk about and one that really
[3:48] changed the landscape for me in in cinema in general, in visuals
[3:52] in general, in inspiration, in general.
[3:55] I'd seen, but the films if this ilk had obviously I'd seen the
[3:58] Godfather had seen, but you would deem to be classic taxi
[4:01] driver over this point. But this for me just seemed to
[4:04] just take all of the right boxes technically, visually.
[4:07] I mean, I've watched it in black and white.
[4:08] Obviously, I don't know if you guys have, but I would check
[4:10] that out. And I've frequently just paused
[4:13] it to make notes as I do on any film.
[4:16] And every time I've looked up, I've been like, what a shot that
[4:18] is. And no matter, no matter when
[4:20] I've paused it literally like. Frame.
[4:22] Look at that. This is it's just, it's just
[4:24] outrageously good. Yeah.
[4:26] I think it's Conrad Hall's absolute magnum Orbis.
[4:28] And to me, I mean, I don't know whether I've got more admiration
[4:32] for this. And I do have love.
[4:33] I don't know if it's more of a technical thing or.
[4:35] Technically, it's beautiful. Now we'll dive into it.
[4:38] Is it really as good as I think it is or was it just the
[4:41] impression it made on me in 2002?
[4:43] And you know, I've, I've LED from this and turned into a
[4:46] photographer because of this. This is why I bought a camera.
[4:49] That's why I started taking pictures, why I do what I've
[4:51] done for the last 17 years. So it it really, really made an
[4:54] impact on me. But it's not just the
[4:56] cinematography. I think the editing is
[4:57] fantastic. I think the scores fantastic.
[4:59] I think the lead performances are fantastic and I think
[5:02] there's a lot to get into. Is it all strong all the way
[5:06] through? I don't know.
[5:07] Let's have a chat about it. Let's see where it peaks and
[5:09] troughs. Let's do it.
[5:11] Yeah. Yeah.
[5:12] Well, I pushed against this film when it came out.
[5:16] Unlike you, Wesley, I was just. I was put off by what I
[5:19] perceived was just what looked like a miserable film.
[5:22] The darkness of the film. Yeah, it's kind of what
[5:24] attracted me, though. I know, I know.
[5:28] That's why we're so close. Opposites attract, don't they?
[5:30] Yeah, it's. Attractive that poster that just
[5:33] didn't appeal to me. Shadows and rain perdition.
[5:37] It just looked miserable. Yeah, fair enough.
[5:40] And it is. Yeah, of course it is.
[5:42] It's not lying here. It's not lying.
[5:44] No, no. So I didn't watch it for a
[5:47] number of years, and I was surprised when I did get around
[5:49] with that. It really isn't as bleak as I
[5:52] anticipated. Of course it is.
[5:54] But there is a likeness of touch that Mendez brings to the
[5:57] material, which I think is crucial to make it work.
[6:00] And, you know, what can you say about that cast, the
[6:03] cinematography, the set and costume designer?
[6:05] Amazing. And we're talking about the last
[6:08] film for Conrad Hall, the last live action film for Paul
[6:11] Newman. I mean, he appeared in a billion
[6:13] animated films after this. You said cars wasn't, I think.
[6:17] Cars Cars 3 did some documentaries, but what a way to
[6:21] go out for both of them. Paul Newman, The man was 77.
[6:24] He's still commanding the screen like the legend that he always
[6:26] was. Effortlessly as well, I think.
[6:29] Incredible here. An important film in a number of
[6:32] ways. Conrad Hall, Paul Newman, Tom
[6:34] Hanks turning bad guy, Sam Mendes, a sophomore effort.
[6:38] Just loads going on here. Yes, it's about time.
[6:41] Definitely. What about you, Matt?
[6:43] It's a film I'm almost nostalgic for because I don't want to be
[6:46] that guy, but I just don't think this is the kind of film that
[6:49] gets made anymore. All right, Granddad.
[6:52] Yeah, I know, I'm yelling at. Clouds.
[6:59] But you know, this is something that's just very mature.
[7:01] It's very somber. It's definitely aimed at adults,
[7:05] but all the same, it's got a huge box office saw attached and
[7:07] it was released a pretty decent financial success.
[7:10] And I'm just saying, does that happen with something like this
[7:13] anymore? I don't know.
[7:14] I just feel like this would be dumped straight on the stream in
[7:17] these days. That's where these kind of
[7:19] prestige pictures go. So it does feel like a bit of a
[7:22] relic in that sense. And I don't actually watch it
[7:25] that often. But that's got nothing to do
[7:26] with the quality of it. It's because it's such like a
[7:29] delicate film. Personally, I think you could
[7:31] Overwatch this and spoil it. It's you know it, there's
[7:34] something quite rich about it. I wanted to savor it and kind of
[7:37] only have it on special occasions, like a really good
[7:38] cheese so. Yeah, I know what you mean.
[7:41] Yeah, it's like a pencil sketch, isn't that you're scared of
[7:43] rubbing it out? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[7:45] Kind of like to it. Yeah, yeah.
[7:46] But no, it's a great film and I'm just so glad it exists.
[7:49] Yes, very much. I think we all are.
[7:51] We all are, wrote. The Partition was written by
[7:53] David Self, based on the graphic novel of the same name, directed
[7:57] by Sam Mendes and produced by Dean and Richard D Zanuck for
[8:00] the Zanuck Company, and distributed by DreamWorks
[8:02] Pictures in the theaters on the 12th of July 2002.
[8:05] Shot mainly on location and sets in and around the Chicago area,
[8:08] it stars Tom Hanks is Michael Sullivan.
[8:10] Tyler Heckman is Michael Sullivan.
[8:12] No, the other one. Some relation.
[8:19] Paul Newman is John Rooney, and there's a superb supporting
[8:22] cast, including Jude Law, Daniel Craig, Jennifer Jason Lee and
[8:26] Stanley Tucci. Yes, let's get on the road with
[8:28] Michael Sullivan. Some say he was a decent man,
[8:31] some say there was no good in him at all.
[8:33] But we're going to spend six weeks with him in the winter of
[8:35] 1931. This is our story.
[8:41] The beginning. We're catapulted in the 1930s
[8:46] America in the opening titles as Michael Junior cycles home
[8:49] through the bustling streets and punishing winter.
[8:51] We'll be meeting as real and adopted family soon, but first
[8:55] hopefully you might with that opening.
[8:56] Yeah, I mean, this opening, the titles so evocative with that
[9:00] music behind it. And you can see already just how
[9:03] rich this is in terms of the production design, the costumes,
[9:06] the cars. You just sit and you think,
[9:08] yeah, they've made this one for grown-ups, haven't they?
[9:11] You know, this is this is its own thing, and it's going to
[9:13] take its time. And it does take its time.
[9:15] But Even so, it's still one of the fastest pace scenes in the
[9:18] film, the way that it shows Michael Junior making his way
[9:20] home. So thinking ourselves, yeah, OK,
[9:22] just sadly. And this is the pace we're going
[9:24] out. And I think it just sums up the
[9:26] idea that back in those days, you did become an adult very,
[9:29] very quickly because Michael Junior, he is a child, but he's
[9:32] earned enough money for the household.
[9:33] He's smoking a pipe. And that just has that wonderful
[9:36] contrast when he gets home and all of a sudden wiped out by a
[9:39] snowball from Peter, who's hiding behind a tree.
[9:41] And then it's this childish fun and games, which it should be
[9:44] for him at that age. And his contrast.
[9:46] Yeah, it is. And it's the quiet tragedy of
[9:48] the film that everything about his childhood is going to be
[9:51] quickly and brutally stripped away from him.
[9:53] And then it just stands, you know, his father's back home.
[9:56] This man, he's been setting up in that opening voice over.
[9:58] He approaches him with absolute caution and fear in that
[10:02] bedroom. Tell him that dinner's ready.
[10:04] Yeah. So I'll go from there and then
[10:05] we're into this great setup where we're introduced to the
[10:08] cover image of the Rooneys. This isn't actually who they
[10:11] are. I think it's just a very nice,
[10:14] very nice cover up, very nice guys.
[10:15] And Newman here is fantastic. There's some wonderful moments
[10:19] where I don't want to see them dice.
[10:21] And then the playing with it, you just see he's just very
[10:23] playful and he's just got them both there and it's just them
[10:26] shots of Daniel Craig Smorgan in that room.
[10:28] The way he's introduced, just out of focus and the hold it,
[10:32] yeah, it's wonderful. And then it goes back to
[10:33] Michael's point of view. And that light is just
[10:35] incredible. And it goes back again out of
[10:38] focus and then it cuts into focus.
[10:39] So you kind of think in this guy's unhinged.
[10:41] He's he's unstable. The techniques used in this by
[10:44] Mendez are just second and none, especially which shots he uses
[10:48] for the edit in which he doesn't.
[10:49] And the thing I love about this is you can see the Conrad Halls
[10:51] give him a lot to. Play with and.
[10:53] Everything he's got in that toolbox looks fucking amazing.
[10:56] He's just, he doesn't have a clue which shots to use and then
[10:59] really has to get his head around it because everything
[11:01] could look amazing. I mean, I've heard of an
[11:03] interview with Mendez, I've heard the the commentary and he
[11:05] says to the opening of the film was meant to just be putting
[11:07] together that Tommy Gunn from the the top point of view from
[11:10] the end. As he said, it was just too
[11:12] dark. It's like how you just open it
[11:13] with just him putting together a Tommy gun and then it just cuts.
[11:16] They get, it's like it's not going to work, but it would have
[11:18] been fantastic. It would have just been an
[11:19] amazing opening, but it just doesn't work.
[11:21] There's too much here to play with.
[11:23] And then we'll go to, oh, look, it's Paul Newman.
[11:25] And then he has to give a Paul Newman performance and he does
[11:27] the speeches at the wake. And it's just if anyone could
[11:30] have spoke at my wake would be Paul Newman in this character
[11:34] because it's just it has such eloquence.
[11:36] It had such poetry. It had such depth in the lines
[11:39] are just absolutely fantastic. When he says, you know, I'm a
[11:42] dear and trusted friend, you fucking believe him.
[11:45] But he's full of shit at the same time.
[11:47] And he's, you know, his words are where you have more poetry
[11:49] in the mine. That in itself.
[11:52] That's poetic. It's beautifully poetic and such
[11:55] an uplift for someone who's going to speak after you.
[11:57] But then he does the come over here and shows him that he's in
[12:00] charge. And it's just a great
[12:01] introduction to Mike and his role because when Finn starts
[12:04] going over and over and over, you can see just looking all
[12:07] they looks over at Daniel Craig Carrot and he looks back.
[12:10] Is that right? And he has to go in and he cuts
[12:12] in and absolutely just takes control of the situation.
[12:15] It's very, very subtly done, but incredibly effective filming.
[12:19] Yeah, that's the thing that keeps you at arm's length,
[12:21] doesn't it? It's very subtly done, so you
[12:23] don't really know what the setup is with the dynamic quite yet.
[12:29] No, not at all. So following those speeches,
[12:31] Finn McGovern is ejected from his own brother's wake.
[12:34] A terrible state of affairs, but his behavior just hints at the
[12:38] insidious nature of this family and that something's just not as
[12:42] it seems underneath. Yeah.
[12:44] And in a drunken stupor outside, Finn threatens that he's going
[12:47] to deal with Connor after he's buried his brother.
[12:49] So I suppose in a way, Connor's hand has been forced, We find
[12:53] out later on, and Connor's living in the shadow of his
[12:56] father's power and his relationship with Michael.
[12:59] He wants to be as powerful as his dad.
[13:01] He wants that relationship and that his dad has with Michael.
[13:03] And that. Beautifully reinforced when we
[13:06] go back inside. Firstly there's a wonderful jig
[13:08] being danced that Hawks back to the old country.
[13:11] Is this really awake? Yeah, but it is in more ways
[13:15] than one with this two way piano piece that Michael and John
[13:18] share. Simple lines intertwine and
[13:21] harmoniously. There's a complete simpatico
[13:24] between Michael and John, a mournful piece reflective of the
[13:27] film's themes. I'm pretty sure it's called Lick
[13:30] My Lab Pump. It's quite pretty.
[13:36] Very good. You couldn't get that out fast
[13:38] enough. Very good.
[13:40] It's quite pretty. But the piano tuet in the scene,
[13:45] which is just called Petition, was actually written by
[13:47] legendary composer John Williams because he came on board as a
[13:50] special guest because he has deep ties with Zanuck Hank San
[13:53] Spielberg. Nice.
[13:55] So it's not called like my little pump?
[13:56] I don't think so. Shame.
[13:59] Shame. Yeah.
[14:00] Unless that bit was in commas, maybe at the end, yeah.
[14:03] Petition. Lick my love.
[14:08] Yeah, that works very good. There it is.
[14:11] I mean, you can see it on the screen as well.
[14:12] Well. And Hanks and Human spent weeks
[14:14] practicing the piece together to make their on screen dynamic
[14:16] reflected in their telepathic piano play.
[14:18] And I mean, I just love the way the camera just sits on them and
[14:21] goes. You want to see them playing it?
[14:22] There you go. And sounds fantastic.
[14:25] Yeah. It really comes across in that
[14:26] scene that they are playing it and Connor can only watch on
[14:30] behind that pin it. Smiley's bubbling under with
[14:32] jealousy and. Rage and furious.
[14:35] But of course, it's also fucking hysterical.
[14:38] A great line. He comes down into that light as
[14:41] well, and that light just hits his face.
[14:42] It's just incredibly. Well done.
[14:43] It's excellent, Very reminiscent of the wedding scene in the D
[14:47] Hunter for example, Our Godfather families coming
[14:50] together with loads of pockets of dialogue and dynamism and
[14:54] friendships going on. I really love it.
[14:56] It's great. Yeah.
[14:56] And the fact that it's awake instead of a celebration.
[14:58] Really. Yes.
[14:59] More of a, you know, reflective time.
[15:01] And they've learned that together on that piano, thinking
[15:03] we're going to get more chance to play this than we are.
[15:05] Something has. Going to be a lot of dead
[15:07] bodies. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[15:08] So a wonderful setup of the father son dynamics are playing
[15:11] the film in the opening scenes. Yeah, fantastic.
[15:16] Taking his father's request, Connor and Michael pay a visit
[15:19] to Finn McGovern. But they didn't anticipate 1/3
[15:21] wheel coming along for the ride, did they, Westy?
[15:24] They really didn't, no, And I think this whole sequence is
[15:27] fantastic. The shots in the back of the car
[15:29] aren't cheesy or overdone. When you just find him
[15:31] underneath that case and he lifts it up and the light comes
[15:33] in just enough to see who it is, it's not played out too much.
[15:36] This his point of view from the back of the car, which I think
[15:39] you know, it just really reflects the scene, reflects
[15:41] your point of view. You're going to see all of this
[15:42] through Michael's vision. You're going to see from his
[15:44] experiences, You're going to experience it as he does.
[15:46] You're going to kind of see what his dad does, but still don't
[15:48] know exactly what his dad does. So many great shots in this.
[15:52] And it's the first time that we get the water theme that runs
[15:56] all the way through this, which is synonymous with death.
[15:59] And you've got the rain coming out.
[16:00] You've obviously got the ice on the body.
[16:02] We've got the ocean sounds at the start, which then then
[16:04] played again at the end. So much rain in this just
[16:07] basically means, you know, death's coming.
[16:09] Yes, And that's how they do it and that's how they highlight
[16:11] it. And I think that's absolutely
[16:12] fantastic because you don't quite know that yet.
[16:14] And you get that lovely shot, what he's looking through.
[16:17] And there's a back and forth between Connor, even though this
[16:19] is all shot wide. Daniel Craig's fantastic here.
[16:23] He's just electric in the background.
[16:25] He's just so volatile. You don't know what he's going
[16:27] to do or when he's going to spin or when he's going to turn.
[16:29] And the fact you say I'm sorry your brother was such a fucking
[16:31] liar and he's pushing the buttons.
[16:33] And what did you do that for? Why did it have to go that far
[16:35] from Michael Junior's point of view when his dad stands in that
[16:38] frame and he's just that Sergio, the only shot.
[16:40] And his legs are there and he's singing through that.
[16:42] You don't really get the chance to see it until that trigger is
[16:46] pulled. And I absolutely love that shot.
[16:49] That could have been cheese on toast with that being slow
[16:52] motion, but it's the sound design and that it's it's so
[16:55] jarring what you're listening to and you're in shock.
[16:58] I think it's just really, really well played out.
[16:59] It's a fantastic stunt. It looks great, all the
[17:02] movements perfect. There's not too much blood.
[17:04] So it's shotgun. It's from a child's point of
[17:06] view when Finn hits that ground and that Tommy gun goes off.
[17:10] I remember in the cinema thinking that is loud because
[17:13] that's where the kids going to hear.
[17:14] And if he doesn't cover easy is at that point reflecting on that
[17:17] sound design. You think that's a mistake
[17:19] that's being mixed too loud, but you have to get his reaction.
[17:21] It's like the opposite of Nolan dialogue, a little bit too
[17:26] heavy, and then he runs out. And you can always think of
[17:29] Forrest Gump, though when he comes out of the door and he
[17:31] runs towards the game, it's a really Forrest Gump.
[17:34] Run. With the Tommy gun.
[17:39] Yeah, exactly. So that then hits home.
[17:42] But when he realizes that it's Michael Junior and he knows that
[17:45] that's it, but don't know what's going to happen.
[17:48] Connor so volatile, it's not going to work.
[17:50] He doesn't really try to comfort his son at all.
[17:53] You don't speak a word of this. It's not like pick him up and
[17:55] try to ignore him from the situation.
[17:56] He just does not know how to deal with it.
[17:58] But the back and forth between Hanks and Craig here is
[18:00] absolutely wonderful. You can just say there's no
[18:03] trust between them. There's no love between them.
[18:05] They're actually fucking hate each other.
[18:07] And when you know, because John's actually said they would
[18:09] take Mike with you, Oh God, right.
[18:13] Because you're not going to be able to do properly.
[18:15] And that's the point here. Connor's got the upper hand on
[18:18] him. He's better than Mike now
[18:19] because Mike's made a mistake with that kid there and he is
[18:22] loving it. There's so much Glee on this.
[18:25] And when his walk away and that little wave just reminds me of
[18:28] he's Ledger in the Joker, just that little moment.
[18:31] And I think he's just really hamming it up and it's perfectly
[18:33] done. Nice night for a stroll of one
[18:35] you've lost. Let's see what happens.
[18:37] It's a brilliant, brilliant setup for a brilliant scene.
[18:39] Yeah, he slams his way out of that scene.
[18:41] He's great. I think some perspective needed
[18:44] as well, because this is Daniel Craig.
[18:45] Before he was Daniel Craig, before he was Bond, before he
[18:49] was in Layer Cake. He was a relative nobody.
[18:52] So he puts in quite a performance.
[18:54] Oh, he's amazing. So after the hit, the rock sets
[18:57] in, in both families, I suppose we think that Connor is slippery
[19:02] as an eel, and that's confirmed during the next scene, where he
[19:04] gives Michael a reminder to give to Tony Carvino, who's light
[19:08] again on his payment. Wonderful scene.
[19:12] The music pulses with menace intermittently, just hinting at
[19:15] the danger in the background, taking the jeopardy just up a
[19:18] notch. And there's a really understated
[19:20] one shot as they walk through that jazz club, the Lightnings.
[19:24] Wonderful, deep, joyous Blues in the club, and then a dangerous
[19:28] red in the back, where all manner of unspeakable acts take
[19:31] place. Lovely, lovely.
[19:33] And then we're in Carvino's office.
[19:35] Mike hands him the letter and his whole cocky demeanor
[19:38] changes. It's a really good silent
[19:41] performance from Doug's Bonooza. I haven't seen him anything
[19:44] else. He's great.
[19:46] He doesn't even have a wiki page, that's how hard the radar
[19:48] is. Wow.
[19:50] Completely baffled at what he's reading.
[19:52] On that note. And the dread just seeps into
[19:54] his body and you can see that on screens.
[19:56] Great. Yeah, it's the active players.
[19:58] When Mike walks in, he's like, hey.
[20:00] Yo, what am I like again? Yeah, exactly.
[20:03] It's fantastic. Great.
[20:04] He is great, but Michael can see danger on my love, and he can
[20:07] see that gun poorly concealed under the magazine as well.
[20:11] Yeah, and Calvino and his goon wiped out ruthlessly without
[20:15] hesitation. If we didn't know the menace
[20:17] that Michael packs, or we kind of were unsure about it because
[20:20] it's Tom Hanks we know now, but there's always that sense of
[20:24] reluctancy with Michael and his work, particularly now that the
[20:27] cat is out of the bag with his son.
[20:30] He's bearing that shame and that weight, but without it being
[20:33] explicit, I think you can tell that he feels bad for taking the
[20:37] goon out just on account of their nice little back and forth
[20:40] in direction on the way to Calvino's office.
[20:42] That's great. So on the surface level, it's a
[20:44] great scene. Technically excellent.
[20:47] Great storytelling as well, with very, very little dialogue.
[20:51] Love it. And then after this, you get the
[20:53] whole turning point of the entire film, which is obviously
[20:57] the killing of Annie and Peter. And I will say 11 flaw in the
[21:01] film is that Jennifer Jason Lee is just so underused in this.
[21:04] Yeah, yeah, I think so. I mean, I know obviously Annie
[21:06] can't have much of a story yourself, and she's there to
[21:09] sort of Michael's revenge arc, but all the same, it's Jennifer
[21:12] Jason Lee. It's Jennifer Jason Lee.
[21:13] Yeah. She's always awesome and you do
[21:14] one more. But the fact is, she is so good
[21:18] with so little. And that makes it all the more
[21:20] shocking when this scene comes along because it is ripe with
[21:23] tension. That cut from Michael
[21:26] frantically hitting the phone in the office to make the
[21:28] connection to that shot of the Sullivan's phone just dangling
[21:32] out of its cradle. Or it just makes you feel so
[21:35] sick because you know, he's late.
[21:37] He's way too late. I mean, that is visual
[21:40] storytelling at its finest. And it's the realism of it.
[21:43] Like when he appears at the bathroom door and his first
[21:45] reaction isn't to beg for mercy or even try to fight back, throw
[21:49] something upon it. It's the motherly protection
[21:51] Shields. Peter straight away turns back
[21:53] Eve. No, it's going to do no good
[21:55] realistically. But it's the double scream that
[21:57] she does. Like the first one is just this
[21:59] one of pure shock and horror and then no.
[22:01] And it really hits home hard. Just got this realism to it, and
[22:06] the moment that really gets me in this moment is pure
[22:09] Hitchcock, is when Michael Ceney gets there and he thinks Connor
[22:12] has seen him on the porch, which is why he's pulled the scarf
[22:14] down from his face. Yeah, it's really.
[22:16] Hitchcock, yeah. But then that could shows he's
[22:18] just looking at his own reflection instead.
[22:20] In the glass. Oh, that's great.
[22:22] Oh. It's so good and the tension of
[22:24] Michael and silhouette on the porch barely able to breathe in
[22:27] case Connor nordicism. I mean that is drawn out so
[22:30] effectively because Connor only takes a few seconds to compose
[22:33] himself. Black feels like 2 minutes,
[22:35] Yeah, it feels like he stood there for ages with Michael just
[22:38] like 2 foot away from him. It's a very tough scene to
[22:40] watch, but it's massively put together.
[22:43] Oh, it's absolutely amazing. And we have a possible Mendez
[22:46] shot in story order. Chronologically, that's the
[22:48] better track the characters emotional arcs.
[22:50] The murder of Annie and Peter Sullivan took place in Week 2,
[22:53] allowing Hanks to explore the full weight of his characters,
[22:55] despair and fury. So you that was hanging over
[22:58] like the performance for the rest of the shoot.
[23:00] Yeah, amazed and stuff, just seeing Tom Hanks cry and it's
[23:04] just a good punch, yeah. It's when it's the reaction with
[23:07] it, no and just hearing it. But this is where you see that
[23:11] fake nose and that's when it's really obvious.
[23:14] It's like Dick dastardly. You just need one of them
[23:16] tashes. It's got exactly the same nose,
[23:20] which is quite weird. It kind of pulls me out with the
[23:21] scene a little bit because it doesn't quite look like it is a
[23:24] strange choice, but that that despair of that shout might look
[23:27] upstairs and it's just the the speed within which he snaps out
[23:31] of that and and knows what he has to do.
[23:34] Yeah, it's pure revenge from the.
[23:36] It is. It is.
[23:36] It's great. Great setup.
[23:38] Yeah. So the Sullivan family are
[23:40] ripped apart and the ruin your family aren't far behind.
[23:43] A devastating first act. Yeah, the director.
[23:52] The man in the director's chair was Samuel Alexander Mendez, a
[23:56] theatre director who was coming off the back of the roaring
[23:59] success of his debut feature, American Beauty.
[24:02] Indeed. So his work on his sophomore
[24:03] efforts and what I think he shines is in his cast and
[24:06] choices. OK.
[24:08] The obvious thing to note here, First off, is that it's Tom
[24:11] Hanks playing hugely against type.
[24:13] It is cold blooded killer, but it's all right because, you
[24:16] know, tanks. He can get away with anything.
[24:19] But then if you look at the rest of the cast, Newman's playing
[24:21] against type as well. He's done morally ambiguous in
[24:24] the past, of course, but he's never played the likes of a
[24:26] gangland boss. And then look at the actors that
[24:30] in 2002 we weren't that familiar with.
[24:33] Daniel Craig and Jude Law, Alfie and James Bond, their roles in
[24:37] this film are certainly not the blueprint for what was to come
[24:40] in their career. No.
[24:42] And they both put in terrifying performances.
[24:44] Very believable considering what we couldn't expect from them
[24:47] down the line. Yeah.
[24:48] And even Stanley Tucci's playing Chicago's most Fiat Mafia head.
[24:52] Yeah. Yeah.
[24:54] Struggle to believe that one slightly.
[24:55] He's. A little bit of a stretch.
[24:59] But I think Mendez does great work in corks and these
[25:01] loathsome performances out of Craig and out of Law as well,
[25:05] who are largely affable actors. Yeah.
[25:09] Craig and Law don't come out with any redeeming qualities.
[25:11] They're just pure evil. But Hanks and Newman, he adds in
[25:14] just many more layers of ambiguity.
[25:16] We can see the good in Michael and in John, despite all of
[25:19] their, you know, mad killings and stuff.
[25:22] Yeah. And none of that is on the page.
[25:24] Mendez often held shots for a beat or two longer than was
[25:27] expected and just allow an emotion to hang in the scene
[25:30] that little bit longer. And I think you can feel that.
[25:33] Yeah, I think the genius comes from Caston 2 actors who we have
[25:37] such affection for, which gives them an instant emotional
[25:39] vulnerability, making it difficult to root against either
[25:43] of them. No matter who wins, we lose one
[25:45] way or another because we, these two actors are beloved.
[25:49] Yeah. And so we bring that emotional
[25:51] baggage already because we're already in love with these two
[25:53] actors. I think it's the classic case of
[25:56] show don't tell. And I think the film is all the
[25:58] better for. It's just subvert and
[25:59] expectations all the way along. Yeah.
[26:01] I think it's a real step up from American Beauty.
[26:04] As we've said, he comes from a theatre background for that in
[26:07] Spielberg. Ham picked him for American
[26:09] Beauty, and I think if you go back and look at that film, you
[26:12] can see his theatrical background.
[26:14] This is all over that film. It's very interior.
[26:17] That famous scene across the dining table with Spacey and
[26:20] Annette Benin of the scenes are just in bedrooms and bathrooms
[26:23] and offices. It's very kind of closeted and
[26:25] the performance is quite theatrical.
[26:26] It wouldn't take much to put that film on stage with minimal
[26:30] changes. So to then move to something
[26:32] like this and just a second film which has such a scope to it is
[26:35] something where I don't even know how you could put this on
[26:37] stage would be entirely changed. I think it's hugely impressive
[26:41] how Mendez makes that step up, but doesn't really miss any kind
[26:44] of beat. And doing so, he turns the
[26:46] performances down, he moves that camera a lot more.
[26:49] He opens up the scale of it. He sets so many of the scenes
[26:52] are outdoors and out on the open road.
[26:54] And it really feels like he's been doing it his entire career
[26:57] at this point, not for the first time on only his second film.
[27:01] And yes, granted he surrounded himself with the likes of Conrad
[27:04] Hall, Thomas Newman, but all the same, I don't ever feel like
[27:07] they are carrying him through this.
[27:09] I think he has that vision in the augmented and deliver it for
[27:12] him. The not see him in the day for
[27:14] him ever at any point. I think this film disputes he's
[27:16] got a real cinematic eye. Yeah, I think he is the one
[27:19] who's responsible for getting the best out of the cast and
[27:21] crew. Yeah, definitely.
[27:23] Yeah, I think for me it is the theatre background here and I
[27:26] think it's the use of block and the use of frame and it's so
[27:28] important and it puts you in that room or in that space.
[27:31] It's the use of sets as well. I think the set design is
[27:33] incredible because you can't really tell what to set isn't.
[27:36] No, you can't. And like Matt was talking about
[27:38] the American Beauty to me feels like a small town theatre.
[27:41] And this feels like Broadway. He's just got, he's got a
[27:44] bigger, he's got a bigger rig to play with his lightnings a
[27:46] little bit better. He's got a bigger stage that can
[27:48] be, you know, you can rotate it round.
[27:51] And I think what Conrad Hall brings to this is that it's a
[27:53] bigger audience and he moves the camera as an audience would
[27:56] move, keeps it still when it needs to be still frames
[27:59] everything impeccably. There's nothing in that frame
[28:01] that shouldn't be there. The miss on sense, absolutely
[28:04] spot on. Everything about this is so
[28:06] assured and so well thought through.
[28:08] When I compare this to American Beauty, I don't think it's
[28:10] concise or it's considered in its edit or the way it flows.
[28:13] I think a lot of this was done in the edit.
[28:15] A lot of these, a lot of these decisions were made later on
[28:17] based on how is this going to work?
[28:18] How is this going to flow? So it doesn't have such a tight
[28:21] knit structure for me, this film actually, I do feel like it goes
[28:24] open, it goes down. Mendez was very, very sure about
[28:27] some parts. But I think when you watch this
[28:29] in its entirety, you can see the bits where he's not too sure.
[28:32] And he's it'd be, you can see it's his second film because I
[28:35] think there's a lot of confidence in where it needs to
[28:37] go a little bit darker. There's a lack of confidence
[28:39] where the light moments are. And I think they're a bit too
[28:41] late just in case people didn't get it.
[28:43] Then there's some themes running through this that he really,
[28:46] really reinforces. And if you watch it a good
[28:48] couple of times, it's just to me, a little bit hard hitting
[28:51] and a little bit over the head when he's like, Michael Junior
[28:54] is not going to be like his dad. That's the theme with the film.
[28:57] It's like, I know and it's constantly reinforced,
[29:00] constantly bang, bang to the last one of the last lines of
[29:03] the film. It's like, I fucking get it.
[29:05] Don't be so scared of the audience not getting it.
[29:07] Because I think he thinks, well, if you get that, then you get
[29:10] the film. I can make on the mistakes, but
[29:11] that theme has to go all the way through it and really has to
[29:13] work. It does kind of shave the edges
[29:15] a little bit and take some of the sharpness out of some of the
[29:18] scenes. I'll never tell you of seeing
[29:20] that. I think it's an incredible
[29:20] achievement for a second film, but without Conrad Hall I don't
[29:23] think this has worked at all. Well, he certainly brings
[29:25] something unique to it doesn't. Right.
[29:27] Yeah, 100. Percent.
[29:28] We'll be talking about him later, certainly.
[29:30] Yeah, yeah. In Mendez encouraged this cast
[29:32] to walk through their blocking without dialogue, allowing their
[29:34] faces and body language to tell the story.
[29:36] And that's tricky, picked up from his Theta days in this
[29:39] approach, to pay a dividends in the scenes between Sullivan and
[29:41] the Sun, because they often unfold through glances and
[29:44] gestures as much as words. Yeah, it's a very.
[29:47] Visual film, Yeah, 100% yeah. And drawing on his theatre
[29:51] background, Mendez, along with Conrad Hall and the production
[29:54] designer Dennis Gassner, spent seven months planning every
[29:57] aspect of Rd. Editions visual design before a
[29:59] single frame was shot. Yeah, incredible.
[30:02] Gassner designed sets that would reinforce the visuals of the
[30:05] film. The Rooney mansion was built on
[30:07] a sound stage entirely out of grey and Blackstone, with
[30:10] strategic pops of brown and green to avoid total
[30:12] monochromia. Which is a shame.
[30:16] Cheerful. Yeah, colored lenses were used
[30:19] to further to saturate the woodwork, fabrics and props.
[30:22] Even the car seen on screen were carefully chosen, repainted to
[30:25] match the films visual scheme, which really works for me.
[30:27] It's. Beautiful.
[30:28] Yeah, You can tell the detail and time that's gone into this.
[30:32] Yeah, and Gastner sets were constructed to exacting
[30:34] specifications inside the massive Armory building in
[30:38] Chicago, and it was a former National Guard training facility
[30:41] repurposed into a sprawling soundstage.
[30:43] The Covenant space, loud haul, complete control of the light,
[30:46] and which he kept intentionally oppressive and dank throughout.
[30:49] Production did have to move on from the site later on though,
[30:51] as the fire damaged it beyond repair.
[30:53] Well. Make the Shiner.
[30:55] Yeah, hello, Shiner. Despite extensive use of those
[30:58] sets, the plan was always to make use of as many practical
[31:01] locations as as possible. Chicago's faded Art Deco glamour
[31:06] and factories scarred grittiness.
[31:08] Pullman in particular. A neighborhood about 30 miles
[31:10] South of Chicago, has a wealth of period accurate exteriors
[31:13] that required very few changes. And production took over entire
[31:17] city blocks, restoring buildings and street cars to their former
[31:21] 1930s glory. Nice.
[31:23] It just feels legitimate. It feels like in the 30s, yeah.
[31:26] Yeah, it's very, very authentic. It is.
[31:29] So Water Petition was based on a graphic novel of the same name
[31:32] by Max Allen Collins, and we'll talk about that more later.
[31:35] And after his published, Colin's literary agent sent a copy of it
[31:38] to Dean Sanok, who was then a junior development executive
[31:41] working for his legendary producer father, Richard D
[31:44] Sannic. And obviously we know him for
[31:46] producing the likes of Jaws, Cocoon, Dr. Miss Daisy, Yes,
[31:49] yes, all the classics. All the classics straight Miss
[31:52] Daisy, you know that's. Not an export.
[31:55] It's pretty much all this film, isn't it?
[31:59] Michael Sullivan, junior, around Chicago.
[32:03] Hasn't got quite the same ring to it as well, I mean.
[32:05] You can tell I've never seen drive Miss Daisy.
[32:10] Dean Zannick loved the book, showed his dad a copy who also
[32:13] loved it, and bought the rights. Xanax Senior sent it to Steven
[32:16] Spielberg, whose DreamWorks studio had a first look deal
[32:19] with Xanax production company. And obviously Spielberg loved it
[32:23] as well. Of course he did.
[32:26] Of course he did get it in there.
[32:27] Love. This.
[32:30] Lone wolf and cub. I fancy this one.
[32:34] The word is that Spielberg was interested in directing, but he
[32:37] already had his hands full with other projects.
[32:39] And this is where Sam Mendez comes in.
[32:42] OK, so in the spring of 2000, he was hot stuff on the back of his
[32:46] Oscar win and featured filmmaking debut American
[32:49] Beauty. Like we've discussed.
[32:50] And because he was the hottest sticker in town, he had a number
[32:53] of screenplays drawn his way, including A Beautiful Mind, K
[32:56] Pax and The Ship and News K Pax, Not So Much Music in.
[33:02] I think he's he's chose wisely here.
[33:04] He did. He has.
[33:05] Chosen wisely. He says.
[33:07] I was looking for a story that was different from American
[33:09] Beauty in almost everywhere. I didn't want to wake up and
[33:11] find that I'd made the same film twice.
[33:13] Yeah, and he was drawn to the contrast in dialogue to American
[33:16] beauty, he said. It has a sparseness, A leanness
[33:19] to it. It speaks in images rather than
[33:21] words. It really does.
[33:22] Yeah. Yeah.
[33:23] He was inspired by the nonverbal simplicity of things like Once
[33:26] Upon a Time in America, Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid,
[33:29] Kurosawa's all of Kurosawa's films.
[33:32] All of them, yeah. Yeah, and he also loved the
[33:34] father son dynamic and the family element of the story, but
[33:37] not the mafia family in it. And he said on the surface it's
[33:40] a very simple story of a father and son's journey, but actually
[33:43] it's a film about a father who's trying to turn the son into
[33:46] something other than himself. It's about the battle for the
[33:49] boys soul. Yes, a point that you've made, W
[33:52] Ian. Yeah, the film makes many times.
[33:54] Many times when Mendez met with Richard D Zanuck, he said
[33:59] something that was music to Xanax is he said, I don't want
[34:02] to make a film about guns. I want to make a film about
[34:05] fathers and sons. Wow.
[34:08] Very nice sons and roses love it.
[34:15] The Sons of Navarone, So an important step in the career of
[34:21] Sam Mendez, who made possibly his best film so far.
[34:25] Definitely the cast. A cast full of talent.
[34:34] We're talking about Hanks, Newman, and child prodigy Tyler
[34:37] Heckman. In the words of the great man
[34:39] himself, we're firstly talking about Don Mustache with a hat
[34:42] on. Tom Hanks as Michael Sullivan
[34:44] senior. Indeed, at this point in his
[34:46] career, Hanks was probably the biggest actor on the planet. 2O
[34:49] wins under his belt. The nicest man on the planet.
[34:51] Everybody loves Hanks. Yeah.
[34:53] Yes, What about you? Wesley Hanks is Michael
[34:55] Sullivan, senior. Big fan.
[34:57] I mean, I was a big fan, Hanks, at this point, because we've had
[35:00] Saving Private Ryan up and now that thing you do now, you know
[35:05] which I absolutely love that this performance is wonderful.
[35:08] It's against tape. Is Hank scared to go a little
[35:11] bit too far into the role? Is he skirting on the outskirts
[35:14] and doesn't want to be a complete badass?
[35:15] Are you threatened by him or is it still Tom Hanks?
[35:18] Does it actually work? Is it that deep?
[35:20] It's on the cost. A lot of questions.
[35:21] I think it's on the line. I think there's some elements
[35:24] where if it wasn't mentioned that he was a war hero, I think
[35:27] would lose all that dynamic where he has that regret and
[35:30] that pain about killing people. He kills people out of love for
[35:34] John Rooney and that's that's why he does it, because he feels
[35:36] like he owes and. Yeah, debt of gratitude isn't.
[35:39] It Yeah. And he's good at killing people
[35:40] and he doesn't want to be. He wants to be a better father
[35:42] and he doesn't know how to be. So I think there's all of that
[35:45] conflict which really comes across.
[35:47] But I think the way that the film sold, and I think why it's
[35:50] so divisive, I think is because of Hank's performance.
[35:53] So I think it's very conflicted with how you think this
[35:56] character behaves. I think he's very conflicted
[35:58] character. And I think that's what Hanks
[35:59] was trying to get across, that it isn't just A1 dimensional.
[36:02] I'm a gangster who kills people. No, there's a lot of levels
[36:05] here. Is the film long enough to
[36:06] explore all those levels? Is there enough that happens in
[36:09] the film where he gets to really pursue that and really push
[36:12] that? I don't know if it does.
[36:13] I think it might just be a bit fast for the amount of depth
[36:16] that he tries to bring to the character does work Expect that
[36:19] dynasty, and that works for me, absolutely.
[36:21] The death of Fanny and Peter, that really works for me.
[36:23] That strikes home. Even when he's just telling them
[36:26] which churches to go to. That really strikes home and he
[36:28] reaches over the bloods on his hand.
[36:30] He's all these little nuanced bits and all them bits really
[36:32] work, but those are the bits where it feels like it was a bit
[36:35] of a missed opportunity. And he just kind of turns into
[36:37] Tom Hanks and he just kind of pulls the parachute a little
[36:39] bit. And you know, there's a safety
[36:41] if you just have Tom Hanks. So I think it's down to Mendez
[36:44] as well as Hanks being like, at which point can I go?
[36:47] At which point am I going to be reined back in a little bit?
[36:49] At which point am I going to fall back in just the Tom Hanks
[36:52] that everybody knows to make the film safe?
[36:54] And I think there's there is that element of him stepping
[36:55] forward and stepping back. But I think a lot of people are
[36:58] conflicted with that. If you just accept that and
[37:00] realize you're not going to get all the answers from this
[37:02] character to realize they're not spoiler alert, but he's going to
[37:05] die with questions that need to be asked about who he was and
[37:08] what his motivations were and how confused his life was.
[37:11] If you can handle that and you're OK with that, you'll
[37:13] really enjoy this film. And I can handle that and I'm OK
[37:15] with that. But I think there's a lot of
[37:16] people who aren't. And if Hanks had played this any
[37:18] straight without all them elements of depth, I don't think
[37:21] we'd still be talking about the film now.
[37:22] I think it really, really works. But another half an hour on it,
[37:25] he might just the nailed it completely.
[37:27] Possibly. I just think that it's Tom Hanks
[37:29] and he never stops being Tom Hanks in the film.
[37:32] Well, the story is that. Yeah.
[37:33] What, does he kill at least 15 people in the film?
[37:37] Yeah. In cold blood, yeah.
[37:39] But he doesn't disappear, Andrew.
[37:40] What he's the most believable as the character is when you don't
[37:43] see it's Tom Hanks doing the shooting, you just see the
[37:45] effects of it. Yeah, that's right.
[37:47] That's perfect. Yeah.
[37:48] That's the character. That's Michael Sullivan.
[37:49] I think unfortunately he just keeps you at arms length because
[37:52] it is Hanks. Yeah, I understand that, Yeah.
[37:54] I mean, still brilliant and he still plays the new ones of the
[37:56] character great, I think, yeah. And Hanks was Mendez's first
[37:59] choice for the role of Michael Senior, and he said he saw in
[38:01] Hanks's innate likeability the chance to craft an anti hero
[38:05] whose gradual humanization might sneak up on audiences.
[38:08] He said I wanted to slowly reveal his character rather than
[38:11] pushing her to the foreground. Hanks wasn't looking for a bad
[38:14] guy role, but he responded favorably to the scripts.
[38:17] Father son themes, of course. Yeah, at the time, he was a
[38:20] father of four, including a young son not much older than
[38:23] the character of Michael Junior. So the idea of struggling to
[38:26] keep his son from following in his father's dark footsteps
[38:29] struck chord. Yeah, not that he's got dark
[38:32] footsteps. It's Tom Hanks for goodness,
[38:34] Yeah. Yeah, and Hanks also loved the
[38:35] idea of the strong silent type amount of actions, not words.
[38:39] Almost like a western style gunslinger.
[38:41] Mendez saw Hanks casting as an opportunity to subvert his *
[38:44] persona and audiences expectations of his character.
[38:47] Mendez said. You see him as an anonymous
[38:49] silhouette before you see him as Tom Hanks.
[38:51] It's like he's coming out of an old myth or a forgotten dream.
[38:55] I mean, a very romanticized version of the film that it's
[38:57] there if you really want to look for it.
[38:59] But I mean, yeah, I mean, but you'll be searching a while 10th
[39:04] page of Google if you're searching for that.
[39:07] Mendez keeps Sullivan at arm's length from the audience at the
[39:11] start of the film, never really shown his face fully in frame.
[39:14] It's only gradually, as his relationship with the sun
[39:17] becomes stronger, do we see more fangs behind the shadows.
[39:20] A specific choice, and I think that's effective for the film.
[39:23] To further distance the character from his movie star
[39:25] charisma, Mendez asked Hanks to adopt A period appropriate
[39:28] pencil moustache and slick his hair.
[39:30] Back contact lenses turned the act as blue eyes brown, further
[39:34] muddy in his appearance. Yes.
[39:36] And of course, you've mentioned the prosthetic nose, which,
[39:39] yeah, feels like an indulgence to be quite honest.
[39:42] Yeah, an unnecessary indulgence. Yeah, yeah.
[39:46] So a very surprising role for Hanks in 2002, or any time for
[39:49] that matter. It's certainly the darkest role
[39:52] in his career, a career which is all the better for it.
[39:55] Yeah. Oh yeah.
[39:56] Really is. Next up, bonafide Hollywood
[40:01] royalty, the legend that was and always will be Paul Newman as
[40:05] John Rooney. Another top of the list cast and
[40:08] choice, the legendary Paul Newman, 77 years old at the
[40:11] time. This was his beautiful swan
[40:13] song. Matt, it's over to you.
[40:15] I mean, what you're doing when you cast Newman in this is you
[40:18] bring in the weird of an iconic 50 year career to this role.
[40:22] You're bringing in someone who's already head and shoulders above
[40:24] everyone else on screen, even Tom Hanks at this point, I would
[40:26] say. And there's an ingrained respect
[40:29] to that. And that's what Newman brings
[40:30] when he starts talking, everyone should show up and pays
[40:33] attention instantly. And there's no question that
[40:36] John is a man to be feared underneath that kind of unclear
[40:39] image that he has. Like when they have not sit down
[40:42] at the table and he thumps that table in.
[40:44] Angrid Connor, you would like to apologise?
[40:48] Try again. You can see everyone around that
[40:52] table holding their breath. Yeah, so do we because we don't
[40:54] know where this is going. And we know John is steeped in
[40:57] blood to hold the position that he does.
[40:59] That was an ad Lib from Newman as well, wasn't it?
[41:01] Was it? He just said the Mendez.
[41:03] He said I'm going to do something.
[41:04] He's like, well, what you say I'm just going to do something.
[41:06] Then again, when you hit that table, you can see every because
[41:08] just the stuff lives off. Oh yeah, properly, everybody
[41:11] surprised. Yeah.
[41:13] And I think the the take of Daniel Craig to standing up and
[41:15] being gentlemen, my apologies, was straight after that, which,
[41:19] yeah, excellent, real. No, it's incredible scene.
[41:21] But at the same time, as we've been saying, this is guy who
[41:23] played Butch Cassidy and Cool Hand Luke.
[41:26] He's played so many good guys and he's got so much movie
[41:29] charisma and he's still got that twinkle in his eye here, like
[41:32] when he's playing dice for Michael's boys and he's just
[41:35] been the lovable uncle of the lovable granddad.
[41:37] It's not an act. That's also who he is and that
[41:40] makes him much more interesting than just being an out and out
[41:43] cold blooded murderer. And ultimately you're talking
[41:45] about a character not in it that much really, but he's got to
[41:48] leave an indelible impression. If everything I've talked about
[41:51] there, all those different elements that constitute this
[41:54] man who strikes the fear of God and the people one minute and
[41:57] then he just makes kids laugh the next, Yes, you can only have
[42:01] very few actors who can do that instantly.
[42:03] And Paul Newman was one of them. And yes, as we've been saying,
[42:06] he would go on and do voices for the Pixel movies, cars and the
[42:09] sequels, but this is his last on screen performance.
[42:13] And I can't think of any other actor who obviously unknowingly
[42:16] took their leave with one of their very best performances.
[42:20] You know, I mean, what an actor he was, what a career he had and
[42:23] what a way to sign off. Yeah, well said.
[42:25] It's some end chapter, isn't it? Oh, really?
[42:28] Is, Yeah. And for an old man, he still
[42:30] packs some wallop. Doesn't.
[42:32] He he's posture, you can just see he's like Atlas.
[42:35] He's just holding up the whole world.
[42:37] But if you believe he could do it, it's like it's fantastic.
[42:40] And he's final words in the film as well.
[42:41] When we get into that scene. I'm glad it's You are kidding.
[42:44] Yes, man. Yeah.
[42:46] Yeah, those are his last on screen words as well.
[42:50] Wow. Yeah.
[42:51] Mendez saw Newmans weathered face and world weary eyes, the
[42:55] embodiment of his character John Rooney, most powerful man in
[42:58] town, now reduced to petty in family squabbling as his empire
[43:02] disintegrates along with his relationships with his
[43:04] biological and adopted sons. I love that setup, that dynamic.
[43:08] Yeah, that layering of the the sons, biological adopted sons.
[43:12] Fantastic stuff, yeah. Newman was intrigued by the
[43:14] script, finding echoes of his own portrayal of pool hall
[43:17] hustler Fast Eddie Felson in The Hustler and in The Color of
[43:21] Money. Certainly got the ambiguity.
[43:23] He's not. He's not straight up and down,
[43:25] is he? As Eddie Felson.
[43:27] No, and then to help capture Rooneys Irish accent, Newman
[43:31] drafted in Angeles Ashes author and Irish native Frank McCourt.
[43:34] Newman had record record all of his lines so he could study the
[43:38] cadences and rhythm of a native speaker.
[43:40] Nice. Yeah, he would go into his
[43:42] trailer and listen back to the tapes kind of systematically to
[43:45] make sure he wasn't fever and off course.
[43:47] Yeah. Right.
[43:48] Nice. Any intimidation Hanks may have
[43:50] felt acting opposite a screen legend such as Newman quickly
[43:53] eased as Newman and he fell into a deep, loving relationship
[43:57] friendship. Yeah, nice, Yeah.
[44:00] And they were 25 years apart. But they bonded over shared
[44:03] affinity with race car driving and games of badminton.
[44:07] Hanks called Newman Pop and Newman reciprocated with son.
[44:12] Oh, very nice, you have. Beautiful, isn't it?
[44:14] Yeah, I'm just going to have to brush up with me badminton and
[44:17] race car drivers in case I meet somebody I need to be very good
[44:21] friends with because I would be fucked in that scenario.
[44:26] Imagine you get the meat. Who would be your ultimate?
[44:29] It would be someone like Bobby Duvall for me.
[44:32] Oh yeah. Well, Wesley, I mean, I think
[44:35] he's, he's more like 50 years you're saying.
[44:39] And if he's still doing badminton, I think.
[44:42] Yeah, still in good nick. Great Nick.
[44:45] Great, Nick. That's how he got in a great
[44:46] neck for Apocalypse Now. The original Great Nick.
[44:50] It's playing playing badminton on the beach one day during
[44:55] film, and cinematographer Conrad Hall was setting up a shot of
[44:58] Paul Newman through his viewfinder.
[45:00] He broke down in tears. When asked what was wrong, Hall
[45:02] said. He was so beautiful.
[45:04] He was so beautiful. Wow.
[45:06] Wow. Incredibly, and this has taken
[45:10] on extra poignancy because Wrote a Petition was the final film
[45:13] that worked on together, having collaborated on four others
[45:17] including Cool Hand Luke and which casting this.
[45:20] Incredible stuff. So a top performance, one of
[45:24] Newman's best, and a fit and weird to end such an illustrious
[45:27] career. Live action, at least.
[45:29] Really. Was.
[45:32] Next, a child actor, an unknown in a cast of huge names.
[45:36] But Tyler Heckling more than held his own as Michael Junior.
[45:40] Now, I wasn't expecting much from Heckling on the 1st watch.
[45:43] To be honest, I kind of already made me mind up that it was a
[45:46] child actor's performance. He's just going to get swallowed
[45:49] by this huge cast. But I was happily blown away by
[45:52] him. For a 14 year old kid to hold
[45:54] his own against Hanks and Newman is remarkable enough, but he he
[45:58] does more than just keep up. Those eyes of his are doing some
[46:02] incredible work throughout the film.
[46:04] You can see in process and everything the violence, the
[46:07] revelation about his father, the loss of his mother and brother.
[46:10] He can fears all of that confusion and fear without ever
[46:13] overplaying it or overstating it.
[46:16] And what I love most is how he shows Michael Junior gradually
[46:20] harden as the film progresses. At the beginning, he's obviously
[46:23] this innocent kid playing with his brother.
[46:25] By the end of the point that you made, Matt, there's something
[46:27] different behind those eyes. Not quite adult, but no longer a
[46:32] child either. And he charts that
[46:34] transformation just fantastically well.
[46:37] The moment where he drives away with his dad's shot, he's
[46:40] processing what's just happened, his face gradually crumpling as
[46:43] the reality hits. It's heartbreaking to watch a
[46:46] child with this kind of cherubic face.
[46:49] I think most adult actors would struggle with that level of
[46:52] emotional complexity, but he nails it.
[46:54] And he doesn't ever feel like a typical movie kid.
[46:57] There's no kind of like smart ass cautious dialogue or forced
[47:01] wisdom beyond his years. Yeah, exactly.
[47:04] I mean, from this part, 2002. Imagine if this was like Hayley
[47:07] Joel Osmond of the back of the 6th century.
[47:09] Like, what on earth? It'd just be far too much.
[47:12] It just feels very, very natural.
[47:14] He just feels like a real boy trying to understand an
[47:17] incomprehensible situation. And the chemistry between him
[47:20] and Hanks that feels genuinely paternal.
[47:23] You believe that these two are father and son, which is
[47:25] essential for the film to work. Mendez asked Hanks and Heckland
[47:29] to improvise dialogue for the scenes of bonding on the road.
[47:32] And that conversation beside the fire about nature of good and
[47:35] evil was largely the result of this improvised approach.
[47:39] Right. It just works fantastically.
[47:40] It does. Yeah.
[47:41] I think he's just made for the big screen.
[47:43] He's just got that look. And he reminds me a little bit
[47:47] of Christopher Cerrone, who plays the young Henry Hill and
[47:49] Goodfellas. Oh.
[47:50] He does. Yeah, similar look.
[47:53] Kind of like almost like cherubic, those piece and eyes.
[47:56] Yeah, amazing. The voice overs are quite
[47:58] similar as well. Yeah, they are.
[47:59] I think it's one of the most underrated child performances,
[48:02] one which definitely gets lost under the weight of Newman
[48:04] Hanks, Conrad Hall, Sam Mendez, all of that.
[48:08] Yeah, Buddy, Scrape. And the search for the right
[48:10] child to play Michael Sylvan Junior was epic and scope.
[48:13] Over 2000 young actors from across the US and Canada
[48:16] audition for the role and this was eventually narrowed down to
[48:19] 200 contenders and each submitted a screen test opposite
[48:22] Hanks. Yeah, and these were whittled
[48:23] down to 20 semi finalists flown out of Chicago for in personal
[48:27] auditions from this group. 13 year old Tyler Heckman was can't
[48:30] pick by Mendez and knocking his reading out of the park.
[48:33] Yeah, I mean, that's a lot for Tom Hanks to contend with, isn't
[48:36] it? 20 semi finalists.
[48:38] Yeah. The little shit I've got us
[48:41] alongside. But to help build their natural
[48:45] father son dynamic further, Mendez had Hanks and Heckland
[48:49] spend loads of weeks off camera. They played catch.
[48:52] They worked on improving Heckland's driving skills, and
[48:55] by the time the cameras were ready to roll, their
[48:57] relationship just felt lived in. Felt really.
[49:00] Yeah. Yeah.
[49:01] They play badminton. No badminton, and that was
[49:03] reserved just for Newman. Just for Newman, fair enough.
[49:05] Yes, fair enough. Yeah.
[49:07] Heckler went on to find success in television, landed major
[49:09] roles in family drama 7th Heaven and the supernatural teen spin
[49:13] off series Teen Wolf, but he was eventually cast as Clark Kent in
[49:16] Supergirl and the spin off Superman and Lewis.
[49:19] So he's done well for himself if he hasn't been a presence really
[49:22] in film after this. So a superb cast on a road
[49:26] edition. We've talked about Daniel Craig,
[49:28] we briefly mentioned Jennifer, Jason Lee and there are more to
[49:30] come. But in Hanks and Newman you've
[49:32] got 2 screen legends, and in Heckland we've got a
[49:35] considerably underrated child performance.
[49:37] Three of the best. Yes, very good.
[49:42] The middle. We've seen the initial
[49:46] devastation of Connor's actions, and now we get the ripple
[49:49] effect, starting with the Rooneys Westie.
[49:52] Yeah, I mean, their reaction is quite a reaction, isn't it?
[49:54] The only reaction is quite a fucking thing.
[49:58] So yeah, this is just an it's a very, very short scene, but one
[50:01] that I always remembered when I left the cinema.
[50:04] It's one that's always stuck with this.
[50:05] And I think it's just the way that Newman just owns this and
[50:08] attacks it and the way that it's lit in the way that it's shot.
[50:11] He has that strip of light on his face where you see just
[50:13] enough emotion, but it's almost like he hasn't got the energy
[50:16] left. And this is just one thing.
[50:18] Just don't get anything else wrong and I'll live the rest of
[50:21] my life doing things right. And you've fucked it now.
[50:23] You've fucked everything. And just the lines are amazing.
[50:25] It's just the delivery of these lines.
[50:27] Yes, I curse the fucking day you were born.
[50:31] And he's like Rippy. I fucking curse it.
[50:33] It's like he really means it. Craig's reaction here where he's
[50:36] just, he's just a wimp. He's just a whimpering mess.
[50:39] He doesn't stand up for anything.
[50:41] He doesn't say what he's done is right.
[50:42] He knows what he's done is wrong.
[50:43] His dad knows that this is what he's going to be like when he's
[50:45] gone. This is what he's Empire's left.
[50:47] This is his legacy left to this guy.
[50:49] And he's just all of that frustration and what, like 3
[50:52] minutes. And it's the way that he turns
[50:54] from the beaten to the God help us to the Father, embrace full,
[50:59] God help us, God help us. And he's like, that's it.
[51:02] Now I just don't know what to do.
[51:03] It is just really, really powerful because their
[51:05] performance reinforces Michael Sullivan's character.
[51:09] Yeah. They're now scared, he's now
[51:11] scared, really scared, and you think, oh shit, what is he
[51:14] capable of? What we're going to see from
[51:15] now? And it really sets up the second
[51:17] act and really starts the film rolling.
[51:20] That God help us line. That's the line he repeats
[51:22] later. Yeah, yeah.
[51:24] With Nitty, isn't it? Yeah.
[51:25] Yes, with Nitty, yeah, that reinforces what you're seeing.
[51:28] Like what is Michael capable of? But it reinforces the religious
[51:32] imagery which is just coursing through the film as.
[51:34] Well, it is, yeah, 100%. But in the next scene, we see
[51:37] that Mike Senior has ice running through his veins.
[51:40] This house is not our home anymore.
[51:42] It's just an empty building. He leaves behind the broken
[51:45] dreams of half of his family in a heartbeat.
[51:48] He knows that if he shows any weakness, it'll be Michael
[51:50] Junior who suffers. Great.
[51:52] That symbolism of the bike as well, just leaving his childhood
[51:54] in the snow. Yeah, yeah, that's great.
[51:57] Great shot. And then after that, an
[52:00] incredibly swift scene. Mike visits Jack Kelly to find
[52:03] out where Connor is. Kelly plays it as cool as a
[52:06] cucumber because he doesn't think he's in any danger.
[52:08] And neither do we, because this is Tom Hanks.
[52:11] Yeah. And that's the great trick that
[52:12] Mendez pulls throughout the film.
[52:14] It's Tom Hanks. He's not a cold blooded killer.
[52:16] But. Oh, I beg to differ.
[52:20] He is you. Give John a message.
[52:22] What is it? Bang.
[52:23] Cold blooded execution from Joshua Baskin.
[52:26] Unbelievable. Now anything's possible.
[52:30] Yeah, that camera pushing as well is just beyond genius.
[52:33] Who? Really.
[52:34] Is it? Is that moment?
[52:35] Yeah. Quick zoom?
[52:35] Yeah, great. Yeah, and then the same that I'm
[52:38] going for comes after this, and it's slightly longer.
[52:40] And, you know, I picked this one for the obvious reason, which is
[52:43] my deep Biden for the Untouchables, of which Frank
[52:45] Niddy, played by Billy Drago, was a huge part.
[52:48] And I know what you said earlier about Stanley Tucci, isn't it?
[52:51] He doesn't quite work. But actually I really like this
[52:53] custom because for me, it's the contrast.
[52:56] You know, this isn't the horrible assassin you got with
[52:58] the Palmer. That's true.
[53:00] You know, I mean, tips, he's always excellent.
[53:02] But I think Nitty shows the reason why Capone got away with
[53:06] so much is because he put on the front of being a businessman and
[53:09] he ran his empire like it was a business.
[53:11] So Nitty, he's like a HR manager here.
[53:14] He's got a secretary, He's got a whole line of people with a
[53:17] whole host of grievances that the one pass him say, right,
[53:21] I'll see him first, then get that guy in.
[53:23] And like, if anyone's ever held any position of management,
[53:26] you're part of the job is having difficult conversations with
[53:28] someone, which is obviously ramped up by what the
[53:31] conversations are about. You know, and there's so much
[53:34] great dialogue here. You know, will one more body
[53:36] make a difference? That's great.
[53:38] The whole scene where Laser Michael, what the ramifications
[53:41] will be if he goes through this door.
[53:43] All that loyalty and all that trust will no longer exist for
[53:46] you. Just really well spoken black
[53:49] and white. But it's not a threat.
[53:51] It's so rationally and calmly explained to him.
[53:54] And as he says, he's not protecting Connor, who were
[53:56] protecting our interests, Mike. So it really lets you know where
[53:59] everyone stands in this film going forward.
[54:01] Yeah, yeah, Really. It gives you the hierarchy of
[54:04] this organization. Yeah, there's that amazing shot
[54:07] when they come into Chicago. They labeled the Dorothy
[54:11] arriving in Hall's shot where Michael Junior first sees the
[54:15] Chicago skyline. They used a complex 3 camera rig
[54:18] to capture a 180° background place and the cameras were set
[54:23] up in an overlap and a rear and the resultant footage was
[54:25] stitched together to create a a wrap around environment that
[54:29] could be mapped onto the car windows in perspective as the
[54:32] main camera moved around with the vehicle.
[54:35] Unbelievable stuff. Yeah, it's fantastic.
[54:37] A really complex shot. That's how you see Ji as well,
[54:40] to reinforce the story. Yeah.
[54:42] Incredible stuff. And Tucci was hesitant to take
[54:45] on the role at first, as he generally avoided playing
[54:47] gangster parts to sidesteps, stereotype and of Italian
[54:50] Americans. However, the chance to work with
[54:52] director Sam Mendez oddly convinced Tucci to accept the
[54:54] part. And there's a deleted scene from
[54:56] the film with Anthony La Paglia is Al Capone.
[54:59] But it was good because Mendez thought that Capone was far more
[55:02] menacing is an unseen presence and Alfred Molina was originally
[55:05] in the frame for the world. But he could make it because the
[55:07] scheduling conflicts you. Would have been good.
[55:09] He would have been great. Lopaglia.
[55:12] Wow. Yeah, yeah, he's great.
[55:15] So with the rejection from Nitty, the Sullivans are out on
[55:17] their own and losing friends fast.
[55:23] The walls are closing in on the Sullivans and there's someone
[55:25] else they need to worry about. And that man is Weasel.
[55:28] Fierce sneak. Harlan McGuire.
[55:33] Good description. There's a wonderful kind of
[55:38] reverse Dolly shot of him walking under the train tracks
[55:41] in the opening shot. Yeah, Almost like we're being
[55:44] forced into an introduction we don't want.
[55:46] It's really, really good. Yeah, it's really great.
[55:49] And with that music as well, it's really unsettling.
[55:51] It is Harlan, such a nasty piece of work, who takes pictures of
[55:54] dead bodies, even finishing the job of some of them if they
[55:58] haven't quite popped off. This scene where he first
[56:01] suffocates that guy with a knife in him kind of reminds me a
[56:04] little bit of Holy Grail, Monty Python bring out your dead.
[56:10] I feel happy but he's such an odd character.
[56:17] Really seedy pictures of actual dead people hanging up in his
[56:21] house. Yeah, yeah.
[56:24] So we know he's not to be trifled with.
[56:25] It's a really great character intro.
[56:28] Jude Law was obviously piping hot when he was cast in the
[56:31] film. A heartthrob, you might even
[56:33] say. So a credit to him that he was
[56:35] willing to push against this persona for the role of Alan
[56:38] McGuire. He needed to be immoral and
[56:41] repulsive, Law said. There's something stinky about
[56:44] him. He's like a bad smell.
[56:46] Yeah, he is awful. Yeah, to achieve the desired
[56:50] rodent like quality, Law parked on a few extra pounds, makeup
[56:53] artist Fern Butchner give him Park Market skin, rotten teeth
[56:58] and greasy comb over. I mean, he's here is ludicrous.
[57:00] And I think that was down to to Jude Law as well.
[57:02] Just wanting to have that kind of vibe.
[57:04] Yeah, he really. Yeah, that heartthrob persona
[57:07] that you had the contact lenses turned his eyes and that ice
[57:10] blue, Mendez said. We wanted to have ACD
[57:13] countenance. And you got that?
[57:17] And as mentioned, the walls of his rented room and dark room
[57:20] were decorated with the sieves of graphic real life crime scene
[57:22] photographs in 1930 Chicago. The black and white images were
[57:26] carefully chosen to evoke the work of famed Tab like
[57:28] photographer author Weegee Fellig because he was a
[57:31] freelance photographer from the era whom Holland was based on.
[57:34] Yes, yeah, Ouija got his name. A riff on the term Ouija because
[57:39] he eerily managed to reach crime scenes before the authorities.
[57:43] Somebody suspect that he had an almost clairvoyant sense for
[57:46] when and where crimes would happen, but in reality he paid
[57:49] for tip offs through the emergency services and sold his
[57:52] pictures to the press. OK, he was a bastard.
[57:56] Yeah. I mean, I'll just continue
[57:59] talking about Jude Law because when everyone mentions this, for
[58:02] me it's the dynasty I think of first and foremost.
[58:05] Outstanding, yeah. Outstanding.
[58:06] Believable. Because when Water Petition
[58:08] wants to really wind up the tension, it really does it
[58:12] effectively. And I think this seems the best
[58:14] example of that because I think there's this ambiguity of Harlan
[58:18] and Michael in the scene. What do they know about each
[58:20] other? You know, I don't know.
[58:22] Has McGuire underestimated Michael here?
[58:24] Or is he simply enjoying the thrill of the chase?
[58:27] And he likes the fact that, you know, maybe Michael recognizes
[58:29] him because Michael straight away sees the red flags
[58:32] everywhere. Soon as he sits down, it's like
[58:34] his ears prick up, the yellow teeth, that false trollery he
[58:38] has with the waitress, which is completely insincere.
[58:41] And that same in sincerity, carries into the conversation
[58:45] that they have because we know McGuire knows who Michael is,
[58:49] but we're not sure if Michael knows who McGuire is.
[58:52] And if he does, does McGuire in turn know that?
[58:55] So you're not quite sure who has the upper hand here?
[58:57] That's great. Yeah.
[58:59] Because if he does, then this whole conversation, they have to
[59:02] be paid to do what you love. And that the dream, it's got a
[59:05] whole different context to it. And the way McGuire goes machine
[59:09] parts, that's wonderful. Can barely keep the sarcasm out
[59:15] of his voice. I say I think he's enjoying the
[59:17] thrill of the chase. I don't think he cares if he's
[59:19] giving himself away. I think I get from the character
[59:21] as well as like, I'm going to use that.
[59:23] That's fucking brilliant. Yeah, that's excellent.
[59:26] That as well, and I love the simplicity that Mendez shoots
[59:29] this with. Just that simple back and forth,
[59:31] nothing elaborate, nothing Troy, just very simple shots.
[59:34] Until bam that revelation. I shoot the dead, Dead bodies,
[59:38] that is, and then you get just that single bead of sweat so
[59:42] slowly trickling down Michael's face, because every question
[59:45] from McGuire now was so loaded with menace and double mean.
[59:48] And you know when he saw him about the dead bodies, You never
[59:51] seen one terrible thing. But the cheer makes you feel
[59:53] alive, don't it? So this whole thing, it just
[59:56] dances that line of ambiguity of what does one counter know about
[59:59] the other, and does the other counter in turn realise that
[1:00:02] they've been made by the other? Because McGuire was certainly
[1:00:05] caught up by Michael subtly swiping that knife away.
[1:00:08] And I think Mendez just draws the scene out magnificently.
[1:00:11] Yeah, sound design and the scenes unbelief.
[1:00:14] I just love the introduction of the carrot.
[1:00:15] He's loading that camera like he's loading a gun and puts it
[1:00:18] on the table. He's right in front of him.
[1:00:19] Yeah. Hanks does a real good job of
[1:00:21] playing dumb. Yeah Yeah.
[1:00:23] And not alerting him that he's under love it, Yeah.
[1:00:27] Mendez encouraged Jude Law to find some dark humour in McGuire
[1:00:31] and he effectively played him as the Wiley Coyote to Hanks's
[1:00:35] Roadrunner. Nice, that's.
[1:00:37] Great. That's great.
[1:00:39] The deal of the boat, that whole diner online as well that is
[1:00:41] found. It right?
[1:00:42] Yeah, it's great. I might look into that. 2020
[1:00:46] grand, isn't it? Yeah, that's right.
[1:00:47] Yeah, Unbelievable. It's a great set.
[1:00:50] It is amazing. Yeah.
[1:00:52] So we'll go from that scene. Is it the last?
[1:00:54] We're going to see if McGuire. I'm not too sure.
[1:00:56] But we still have to wait. And we're going to the Robin
[1:00:59] Banks. This is what we need to do next.
[1:01:01] You know, even Rocky had a montage, so we kind of need to
[1:01:06] put that in there somewhere. This is where it slightly comes
[1:01:09] off the boil for me. It feels like it's a little bit
[1:01:13] too light hearted. It feels like it's a little bit
[1:01:15] too much of A breath of fresh air.
[1:01:17] I'd know that it might be needed and that's OK, but is it a
[1:01:21] little bit over long? Is it just pulling the car up
[1:01:23] really slowly? Is that just a little bit too
[1:01:26] funny for what we're trying? To do a bit like, oh brother,
[1:01:28] isn't it? A little bit, yeah.
[1:01:30] But I mean, oh, brother had that tone and it did not want to dip
[1:01:33] in and out of it. And it doesn't go too far to
[1:01:35] kind of say, you know, did you get that?
[1:01:37] It's light hearted now. You can relax for a bit.
[1:01:39] You know, you there's always there elements where it could
[1:01:41] snap back in here. I don't feel like it's ever
[1:01:43] going to snap back here. You feel like you've got a good
[1:01:46] 1520 minutes to kind of get your breath back, right.
[1:01:49] We've been through, and I don't know if I like that or not.
[1:01:53] I think the first time I saw it maybe.
[1:01:55] But I've seen a lot of films that have been a lot heavier
[1:01:57] than this and have been just, you know, the pace of it and
[1:01:59] putting you through it all to some kind of conclusion.
[1:02:02] And I feel like it's just a bit too much of A light touch for
[1:02:05] me. There's a level of threat and
[1:02:07] the lack of threat just completely disappears at this
[1:02:09] point. Yeah, you don't feel like
[1:02:11] anything bad is going to happen. So for me, it kind of dips here.
[1:02:14] I lose attention a little bit, and that might be because it's
[1:02:17] kind of broad daylight, the lightness.
[1:02:18] It's not a strike and it's not as atmospheric, It's not as
[1:02:21] emotional. Just a little.
[1:02:22] Just to keep that sense of threat just behind the scenes
[1:02:24] would have been good for me. Yeah, I think it does serve a
[1:02:28] good purpose in that it's building up the relationship
[1:02:31] between the two Michaels. Yeah.
[1:02:33] Yeah, I do like that. However, I think that that's
[1:02:35] kind of blunted with the scene later on that I'm going to talk
[1:02:38] about, but we'll talk about that later on.
[1:02:39] OK, OK. And one of the first scenes
[1:02:41] filmed was this montage of Sullivan and his son Robin
[1:02:45] Banks, cross cut with newsreel footage of Herbert Hoover's
[1:02:48] inauguration speech. And this were quite seamless,
[1:02:51] indicating between colour and monochrome footage re screen
[1:02:54] projection in hidden camera cars.
[1:02:56] Yeah, it's one of the most complex scenes in the film.
[1:02:58] It's certainly the most joyous, whether you like it or not.
[1:03:02] Fair enough. Yeah.
[1:03:03] I think it adds some much needed levity to the film, but if you
[1:03:08] like it, then make the most of it because that won't last long.
[1:03:11] Yeah, no, it's not a lot. No, no.
[1:03:16] The crew, a very talented, classy crew on Road Edition.
[1:03:23] The cinematography and music are coming, but first, it's the
[1:03:26] screenplay by David Self, adapted from the 1998 graphic
[1:03:30] novel of the same name. Matt, your thoughts on the
[1:03:33] screenplay? I think it feels very surprising
[1:03:35] that this comes from a graphic novel.
[1:03:37] It's not something like Sin City, for example, where you're
[1:03:40] watching it go, yes, I see that working visually on a page or
[1:03:44] something else physically holding me hand and turn over.
[1:03:46] Yeah, 300. Yeah. 300, yeah.
[1:03:51] This, I've done so much and you know, I have gone and looked at
[1:03:54] it online and read a bit and again, it doesn't strike me as
[1:03:56] something you'd immediately go, yes, put this into a script now
[1:04:00] it's going to work. So I think probably the most
[1:04:02] impressive thing is how they've identified the elements that
[1:04:04] won't just translate visually but also translate into theme
[1:04:08] and plot and structure. I mean, we've said already so
[1:04:10] much in here about fathers and sons carrying the sins of the
[1:04:14] fathers, the ramifications of violence, all intertrined with a
[1:04:18] lot of great dialogue as well. I think the dialogue really
[1:04:20] stands out and I think like much of the film, it's just about the
[1:04:23] simplicity of it. It's very stripped back.
[1:04:25] It's very down the line, which is maybe the one element where
[1:04:28] more seeds root in the graphic novel because that format, I
[1:04:31] think it tends to be quite simple because of the nature of
[1:04:34] it. So I think for self to pick up
[1:04:36] on all of that and then expand on it the way he has done.
[1:04:39] But then that's Mendez and Hall expand on it even further in a
[1:04:42] visual sense. It's very good job indeed.
[1:04:45] Yeah, I think for me, it's these elements of dialogue that is
[1:04:49] kind of grounded in the authenticity, but it's also the
[1:04:52] exploration of like the family dynamic with a really dark tone,
[1:04:56] a really shadow tone. You know, it's not showing the
[1:04:58] the positive side of the family dynamic.
[1:05:00] It's shown the grief and the pain and the heartbreak that you
[1:05:03] have to go through and hold a family together through it sort
[1:05:05] issue on that other side of it. And what I get from this, I
[1:05:08] mean, I've got the graphic novel, but I've not read all the
[1:05:11] way through it because to me it's just so different.
[1:05:13] So it's it's really different in tone.
[1:05:16] It was harder. It's a lot harder of a story.
[1:05:18] It's a lot more harsh in its tone.
[1:05:20] And I think that's what Self was trying to get at.
[1:05:22] I think he did have that dark tone on the page.
[1:05:25] And I think that works visually when it's gone over the Conrad
[1:05:28] Hall and it's gone to Sam Mendes.
[1:05:29] But I do think that it has been softened quite a bit.
[1:05:32] I think this sort of been great on paper because you would
[1:05:34] imagine it, right? OK, You know, father and son go
[1:05:36] and start robbing the banks and start taking away all the
[1:05:38] gangland's money, and they're just trying to disrupt
[1:05:40] everything. And you just think, right,
[1:05:42] that's going to be strong, That's going to work.
[1:05:43] And then for that to be then turned into a montage.
[1:05:46] And visually, I don't know if that kind of takes it away.
[1:05:48] I think it's all there. There's some incredible dialogue
[1:05:51] and there's some really great things and really great themes
[1:05:54] that are being explored. And I don't really think this is
[1:05:56] a screenplay where people have gone.
[1:05:57] Anyone could be in this film and it works.
[1:06:00] I think if you if you read the screenplay and you have two
[1:06:03] people that are cast wrong and you don't have Conrad Hall
[1:06:06] shooting it, you don't have Thomas Newman doing the score
[1:06:08] and you don't have Mendez sitting on the edit as much as
[1:06:10] he did. And you know, being very
[1:06:12] meticulous about what works where.
[1:06:13] I think this works because it's a complex jigsaw.
[1:06:16] Self has all the pieces, but I think his jigsaw looked very,
[1:06:19] very different to what Mendez does with the pieces.
[1:06:22] Yeah, we've talked about it's a very visual film and I think the
[1:06:25] screenplay gives the framework for Mendez's visuals and I'm
[1:06:29] just a big fan of the layers in the writing and the double mean
[1:06:32] into everything underpinning this incredible multi layered
[1:06:35] father son narrative. Like we talked about the
[1:06:38] position of the title is literal and metaphorical.
[1:06:41] It's the place where Michael's aunt lives and it's going to be
[1:06:43] their literal safe haven. But the word petition means hell
[1:06:47] or damnation. So when they get there, the
[1:06:49] devil metaphorically comes for his Jew and Michael Senior
[1:06:52] doesn't make it. Of course, again, I mean that's
[1:06:55] a beautiful thing when you look at the right and having that as
[1:06:57] the place at the go on, but it's only mentioned once and it's not
[1:06:59] done subtly. No, no it's not.
[1:07:01] It's like slam down your throat, like the ideas great sort of
[1:07:04] when right, let's have them see it.
[1:07:06] It's in petition and then the whole it's almost like the stop
[1:07:08] a minute and look at the audience go.
[1:07:09] Do you know what petition is? Are you understand what that is
[1:07:11] right, let's move on yes, there's no some reason that
[1:07:14] direction. Did you get it?
[1:07:15] And I think that there's a lot of that all the way through this
[1:07:17] film. Yeah, there is.
[1:07:18] There's a bit of heavy handedness, I would say.
[1:07:20] Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's the sins of his past
[1:07:23] catch matching up with him, Michael, since the past that he
[1:07:26] doesn't want to pass on to his son.
[1:07:27] They've travelled on this road to hell together.
[1:07:30] And Michael Senior is trying to protect his son from falling
[1:07:32] into this world that is hammered hole.
[1:07:36] Yes, Yeah. And ultimately, you know,
[1:07:38] Michael Senior had to die. It's in the title of the film.
[1:07:41] But he can die a happy man that the chain has been broken and
[1:07:44] his son is not on the same path as him.
[1:07:47] But I also love the complexities in the father son narrative that
[1:07:50] are taken one step further when looking at John Rooney.
[1:07:53] Michael isn't his son, but he's got a better relationship with
[1:07:55] him than his actual son Connor. But ultimately blood is thicker
[1:07:59] than water and bad decisions are made despite how destructive
[1:08:02] they are. I think John knows he's going to
[1:08:04] die, but he can't turn his back on his son, no matter how
[1:08:07] horrifically he's behaved. So it's the ties that bind us
[1:08:11] together. And it all tapped into that
[1:08:12] quote from the film. Sons were put on this earth to
[1:08:15] trouble their fathers. Yeah, in one way or another,
[1:08:17] that's exactly what the film's about.
[1:08:19] Rooney is damned by his son. Sullivan is saved by his.
[1:08:22] Yeah. So I do like the right in there,
[1:08:24] particularly from unlikely source material.
[1:08:27] There's some real depth to the right in here for me, yes.
[1:08:30] As mentioned, Wrote a Petition is based on the graphic novel of
[1:08:33] the same name written by Max Allen Collins in 1998,
[1:08:36] illustrated by Richard Pierce Reyna Collins drew inspiration
[1:08:40] from a number of sources. One was the 70s manga series
[1:08:43] Lone Wolf and Cub. There you go.
[1:08:45] That tells a story of a disgraced 17th century assassin
[1:08:48] who travels the country seeking revenge with his infant son and
[1:08:51] tour. I mean, it's the Mandalone.
[1:08:53] It's been coming. It's coming around again and
[1:08:55] again and again, isn't it? It's always there.
[1:08:57] Another inspiration was the trials and tribulations of real
[1:09:00] life Midwestern gangsters John Patrick Looney and his Doom son
[1:09:04] Connor. John Looney.
[1:09:06] John Rooney. I see what they did there.
[1:09:08] I get Yes. Connor was murdered by his
[1:09:11] rivals, supposedly in an attempt to assassinate his father.
[1:09:14] John Looney managed to survive the attack, but his criminal
[1:09:17] organization crumbled in the aftermath.
[1:09:19] Yeah. So Spielberg drafted in
[1:09:21] screenwriter Dave itself to adapt it for the screen because
[1:09:24] he'd been impressed by his work on 13 Days, which is a really
[1:09:27] great film, by the way. It is great.
[1:09:28] He later commissioned him to write the screenplay for the
[1:09:31] remake of The Horton. Less said about that one the
[1:09:33] better though, because there were significant rewrites on
[1:09:36] that. That's right.
[1:09:37] Yeah. So really self can't be blamed
[1:09:40] as such. So individually, yes, Self was a
[1:09:44] lifelong comic book fan who had once interned at Marvel Comics,
[1:09:47] were under the legendary right artist Frank Miller, and through
[1:09:51] various rewrite Self screenplay moved away from the source
[1:09:54] material. The nuts and bolts remained, but
[1:09:56] there was some big changes. So Newman's character kept the
[1:10:00] surname of the mobster he was based on, John Looney.
[1:10:02] And you've lost character Harlem McGuire.
[1:10:05] He's little more than a footnote in the novel.
[1:10:07] There's a big difference in the depiction of violence.
[1:10:09] It was significantly toned down for the film with some scenes
[1:10:12] being removed completely. And Collins novel Michael Junior
[1:10:15] kills someone whereas he does not in the film.
[1:10:17] Yeah, well, I mean, that's what this entire film is built on.
[1:10:20] Yeah, and I think at the end he turns into a preacher, isn't he?
[1:10:22] That's right, Yes, he does. He has a confession and that's
[1:10:26] how it ends. That's correct, yes.
[1:10:28] And that was a scene that was shot for the film but didn't
[1:10:30] make it. That's a bit too far, and it's.
[1:10:32] Yes, it is. Iconography, I think.
[1:10:35] It is definitely. Yeah, we get it.
[1:10:37] Yes, I understand that. I'm fucking surprised it's not
[1:10:39] in there to be honest. Yeah, so I think the change is
[1:10:43] mostly served to kind of move away from the pulpy crime saga
[1:10:48] that the novel is and give it a more of a pristine Sheen.
[1:10:51] That's what Mendez wanted to do. Yeah, it's more of that deaf
[1:10:54] touch, isn't it? Definitely.
[1:10:56] Well, with that we have our first question from an ATRM
[1:11:00] patron. OK.
[1:11:02] And then we mentioned at the top, become an ATRM Patreon
[1:11:05] supporter. You can ask the questions of the
[1:11:06] film that we're talking about. And this first one comes from
[1:11:09] Ryan Douglas. Hello, Ryan.
[1:11:11] Hello, Ryan. Ryan Says wrote Petition has one
[1:11:14] of the great underrated film quotes in his opinion.
[1:11:17] So this is the life we chose, the life we lead.
[1:11:20] There is only one guarantee. None of us will see Heaven with
[1:11:23] Sullivan Reply and Michael could fantastic.
[1:11:26] Yeah, yeah, wonderful. What underrated film quotes are
[1:11:29] your favorite? So I'll pick this straight away.
[1:11:31] Yep, up your street, this one. Yeah, yeah, straight.
[1:11:35] Away Everyone that we do together is probably underrated.
[1:11:40] Yeah, That is a great line that you've picked out there, Ryan,
[1:11:43] as well. Very nice.
[1:11:44] Great writing. I'm getting straight in there
[1:11:47] with the familiar one, Zodiac. Dave Toski, thank you.
[1:11:51] Thank you for breakfast. That's my second one on me.
[1:11:53] List. Oh, really?
[1:11:54] Yeah. Yeah.
[1:11:58] We've said it before, but it's just stuffed with me that of
[1:12:01] course he is obviously thanking Christmas for breakfast, but
[1:12:03] he's also thanking him for solving the mystery, for giving
[1:12:05] him freedom, for breaking his shackles.
[1:12:08] I use it a lot, but in situations which probably isn't
[1:12:11] quite as meaningful as Dave Toski, the.
[1:12:15] But the intention's still. There.
[1:12:16] Yeah, mine's just literal. Yeah, he still don't pay for it,
[1:12:23] which he does. And from score says he's the
[1:12:27] king of comedy. After Rupert poker and stand up
[1:12:29] bit, he wraps it up by saying better be king for night and
[1:12:32] then schmuck for a lifetime. And he really believes that.
[1:12:35] I mean, he's going to jail for a long time, but it's a great way
[1:12:38] to sum up the reverence and thirst for celebrity, no matter
[1:12:41] the cost. I think it's an underrated line.
[1:12:44] I really like that. And on a different note, in that
[1:12:46] same film, that picture of his pride and joy, I can't get
[1:12:48] enough of that. You want to see a picture of my
[1:12:50] pride and joy? That's.
[1:12:52] But I think I'd love that. It's great.
[1:12:56] Westy, what about you? Leave the gun, take the cannoli.
[1:12:58] Oh. Nice.
[1:13:00] I think that just really kind of sums up most of the film without
[1:13:03] getting too deep or too far into it.
[1:13:05] It's kind of like, you know, leave the violence, take the
[1:13:07] heritage, but you look after the heritage with the violence.
[1:13:10] I think it's just really great. Could be throw away, but again,
[1:13:12] really works. Everyone mentions the tears and
[1:13:14] rain speech from Blade Runner. I've got, I think, a far more
[1:13:17] important line. It's too bad she won't live, but
[1:13:19] then again, who does? The delivery on that,
[1:13:21] incredible. And it just when it comes back
[1:13:24] as well and the director's Courtney and he, he hears it and
[1:13:26] he just goes right. Well, you need to live your life
[1:13:27] now, then. Yeah, you could die at any time.
[1:13:30] That's not the point. It's not the point.
[1:13:31] She's a replicant. It's about living your life.
[1:13:33] It's about you to live with her again.
[1:13:34] Who does exactly? I absolutely love that.
[1:13:37] And one of the funniest ones. And I mentioned this on a few
[1:13:41] episodes ago, OK? And it absolutely smashes me in
[1:13:45] every single time. And it's the delivery on this as
[1:13:47] well. I think it's one of the funniest
[1:13:48] lines in any film. And it's from the Blues
[1:13:50] Brothers. And when when he says you're
[1:13:53] going to look pretty funny trying to eat caught on the Cobb
[1:13:55] No far country. I think that's one of the best
[1:13:59] lines. And I remember first time
[1:14:01] hearing that. And just a bit real behind that
[1:14:03] delivery. It is just so brilliantly done.
[1:14:06] And I laugh every time I hear it.
[1:14:08] And not enough people, not enough people know about it.
[1:14:10] It's just great. No fucking truth.
[1:14:13] Absolutely. Yeah.
[1:14:16] I love that line. That is so funny.
[1:14:18] I remember watching that when we did that video analysis for The
[1:14:21] Blues Brothers a few years back, and I hadn't seen The Blues
[1:14:24] Brothers for a few years, and it came to that scene and it just
[1:14:27] took me completely off guard and I was on, I was decked.
[1:14:31] Yeah, it's. Great, hilarious.
[1:14:34] What about you mass Underrated lines?
[1:14:37] I've gone from one CV Swan to comic wands.
[1:14:39] The CV Swan is Paddy Considine's voice over and dead man shoes.
[1:14:45] God will forgive them. He will give them and allow them
[1:14:47] into heaven. I can't live with that.
[1:14:49] Yeah. That's amazing.
[1:14:51] That sets you up brilliantly. That is an underrated film, an
[1:14:55] underrated film, an underrated line.
[1:14:57] Everybody should see that film. Everybody needs to see dead
[1:15:00] punch shoes. Yeah, and then in comic ones, I
[1:15:03] mean, it's a Tom Hanks line, and it's from the burps.
[1:15:05] And it just from the very first time I saw this, made me laugh.
[1:15:08] And it's when Hanks's son and that is explaining how he's got
[1:15:12] that theory about what the Club X were up to.
[1:15:15] And he says it's because Ricky Butler told him.
[1:15:17] And Hanks just says really sarcastically, Oh, Ricky Butler
[1:15:20] said. And that's whenever I hear
[1:15:24] someone, like see someone just speak absolute bullshit on TV,
[1:15:27] like a politician or football manager making excuses, I'll
[1:15:30] just go, oh, Ricky Butler said. Just the.
[1:15:33] She is disdain Hanks puts into that he's.
[1:15:36] Amazing towards his son as well. Oh, Ricky, Butler said.
[1:15:41] Ricky Butler says yeah. You just know from that moment
[1:15:44] on, don't believe anything. Ricky Butler.
[1:15:45] Says yeah, he's full of shit, yeah.
[1:15:47] There's so many great lines in the burbs.
[1:15:49] I mean. That wrote the petition.
[1:15:51] That's amazing. Yeah, those are beauties.
[1:15:53] Going to build something with those.
[1:15:59] And the other one from one of our all time favorites, and we
[1:16:02] do say this quite a lot and it's from in Bruges and it's when Ken
[1:16:07] is on the phone a hurry trying to make an excuse for rare not
[1:16:09] being there. And he says he went to pizza's
[1:16:12] and he says, how was it? And he just goes, well, you
[1:16:14] know, Pizza Hut pizza. You know, there's something
[1:16:18] about a line. It's so funny.
[1:16:19] And again, it's one where like I tried bring that into
[1:16:22] conversation if someone that something was where it's really
[1:16:24] obvious what it would be like. Well, you know Pizza Hut.
[1:16:29] It is what it is. Yeah, it is what it is.
[1:16:31] Yeah. Matt, you've shown a lot of
[1:16:34] restraint by not saying I like from the Bruce that I may have
[1:16:37] thought you said. Well, just go back, listen to
[1:16:40] the In Bruges episode to hear that one in it's.
[1:16:42] In there all the old buildings and that.
[1:16:45] You use this word and various other quotes.
[1:16:52] Yes, we could be here all day to.
[1:16:54] Be honest. Yeah.
[1:16:55] So there you go, Ryan. Thank you for the question.
[1:16:58] We liked our lines. Yep, not ours.
[1:17:00] You know, we pulled them from films, but delivery is
[1:17:03] impeccable. Indeed.
[1:17:05] So impressive writing from David Self, adding a Sheen of class to
[1:17:10] a pulpy gravic novel. Yeah.
[1:17:12] Yeah. Next up, we have the music in
[1:17:17] the film composed by Thomas Newman.
[1:17:20] Our thoughts on the music. I think it's quite somber, but
[1:17:24] it gets under your skin in in a very, very beautiful way.
[1:17:27] There's this horn and piano theme that just breaks my heart
[1:17:31] every time I hear it. It's so simple, but it carries
[1:17:34] all the weight of Sullivan's guilt and love for his son.
[1:17:38] I think the Irish influences Newman weaves in give this whole
[1:17:43] kind of folkloric, almost mythic quality.
[1:17:46] Like when you're in an ancient tragic ballad, there's pipes and
[1:17:50] penny whistles if they don't feel forced or obvious.
[1:17:53] It's not like we're we're in Boston, so we have to hear
[1:17:56] those. Those kind of like Irish
[1:17:57] flavours. Dropkick Murphy's Dropkick
[1:18:00] Murphy's, yeah. But they just add a layer of
[1:18:04] melancholy that makes everything feel just a just a bit more
[1:18:08] timeless. And what I love is Newman's
[1:18:10] restraint. He knows when when to pull back
[1:18:12] and let the silence do the work. In those quiet moments between
[1:18:16] Michael and his son, the absence of music becomes just as
[1:18:18] powerful as the presence of it. It never oversells the emotion,
[1:18:23] and it captures the film's tone just great.
[1:18:25] It's mournful without being manipulative.
[1:18:27] You must feel like this. Yeah.
[1:18:30] Yeah. Beautiful without being
[1:18:31] sentimental. I think it enhances the visual
[1:18:34] poetry of whole cinematography without competing with it, But
[1:18:38] it does a bloody good job of enhancing it.
[1:18:40] It really does. It's not sure we are memorable
[1:18:43] in where some scores are, but it's deeply affected.
[1:18:47] It's very subtle. I think he understands that the
[1:18:49] stories about love and loss, not guns and violence, and his music
[1:18:51] reflects that. One of those scores that you
[1:18:53] don't really notice until you try to imagine the film without
[1:18:56] it. Then you realize that it's
[1:18:58] absolutely essential for the whole experience.
[1:19:00] Yeah. Yeah.
[1:19:01] Absolutely beautiful stuff. What about USD?
[1:19:05] Yeah, I bought this score the day after I saw the film Stray
[1:19:08] on CD because I kind of just wanted to experience it more.
[1:19:12] And you can see this music, you can see the textures.
[1:19:16] It's. Visual.
[1:19:16] Yeah, you. Can see the color palette, you
[1:19:18] can see how it all works. It's not too sentimental, like
[1:19:21] you said, Luke, and it's a great use of atmosphere.
[1:19:23] On some moments. There's final shootout with
[1:19:25] Rudy, and that's just pure atmosphere that's got nothing to
[1:19:28] it. Then the strings come in and you
[1:19:29] start to get this melody that seems familiar, but then it's
[1:19:32] just lost on the wind. I think a lot of this is just
[1:19:35] feels like it's coming past year and you experience it as it
[1:19:37] happens, but you can't stick it in your head.
[1:19:40] So every time I listen to this soundtrack, and I listen to it
[1:19:42] quite a few times just independently of the film, and
[1:19:46] it does evoke all of this emotion, but it's just like a
[1:19:48] fleeting moment. It doesn't stay with you.
[1:19:50] It doesn't kind of hammer itself home.
[1:19:52] And you go, well, you know where you just go, but you know the
[1:19:54] end of wrote the position. What does it go like?
[1:19:57] And you just go, oh, I know what it feels like.
[1:19:59] I can't tell you what. I can't really tell you what it
[1:20:01] sounds like, but I know exactly how it feels.
[1:20:03] And I think that's the point. I think it's really, really hard
[1:20:05] to do. And Thomas Newman is made a
[1:20:06] career off that. So yeah, it's emotional without
[1:20:09] being cheesy, without hammering it down your throat.
[1:20:11] And to be able to support them. Visuals, he doesn't really need
[1:20:14] to do much. And I think he does more than is
[1:20:16] absolutely necessary to bring that to life.
[1:20:18] And he really does a good job. Yes, he does great job.
[1:20:20] What about UMass? Thoughts on the music?
[1:20:22] Just complete agreement really. It's very gentle for the most
[1:20:25] part. It is very subtle.
[1:20:26] It mixes and elements of folk music, but also elements of noir
[1:20:30] when the mood of the film darkens.
[1:20:33] And yeah, it's one way. It is tricky to talk about it
[1:20:35] because it's not, you know, overflowing with eworms, which
[1:20:39] this one isn't. But it serves the film.
[1:20:41] You know. If the scene is melancholic,
[1:20:43] Newman nails it. If the scene is tense, Newman
[1:20:45] nails it. If the scene is light hearted,
[1:20:46] Newman nails it. And it's over the film in a very
[1:20:50] subtle manner where it doesn't grab your attention.
[1:20:51] But if it wasn't there, you would miss it.
[1:20:53] You know, even the most memorable ones like Raw to
[1:20:55] Chicago, which is just that simple piano riff.
[1:20:58] It's simple, It's not massively overact, but it really works.
[1:21:02] I mean, Mcguire's theme, all it is are those like dissonant
[1:21:05] strings sound a bit off. Nothing huge and booming, but it
[1:21:08] really works. Yeah, it really does.
[1:21:10] Mcguire's theme sounds like what Williams did, with whom alone
[1:21:13] that diddle in. Yeah, it really is.
[1:21:18] And that makes you really off, off center, yeah.
[1:21:20] Yeah, it does. Thomas Newman came on board
[1:21:23] after Mendez drafted him in for American Beauty.
[1:21:25] So they built up that sympathical relationship.
[1:21:29] Yeah. And that's why he wanted them
[1:21:30] for this. To evoke Rd. to petitions, 1930s
[1:21:32] Prohibition era Chicago setting, Newman incorporated subtle Irish
[1:21:36] sounds like we're talking about in the fabric of his score.
[1:21:39] Hypes, penny whistles and mandolins are often woven
[1:21:41] through the film, making a marriage of the old country with
[1:21:44] the new country, Ireland and America.
[1:21:46] Yeah, it really works Well, Yeah, Newman wrote almost two
[1:21:50] hours of music for the film. Somewhat overkill for me,
[1:21:54] considering this is just under 2 hours.
[1:21:56] You can't have all music. Yeah, exactly.
[1:21:59] Yeah. But Mendez only wound up using
[1:22:02] about 30 minutes of it sparingly and perfectly.
[1:22:05] Yes, I think so, yeah. So Thomas Newman doesn't flex
[1:22:09] his muscles or outstairs welcome with his music, but he certainly
[1:22:13] adds to the texture of the film. Yes.
[1:22:18] Finally on our crew list, a legendary cinematographer, one
[1:22:23] of the greatest in his field. It is Conrad Hall bowing out
[1:22:27] beautifully. Yeah.
[1:22:29] Wesley, over to you. Conrad Hall, Cinematography.
[1:22:32] I mean, this is the culmination of a full career and a very,
[1:22:35] very, very talented man who had everything, who did everything
[1:22:39] and had everything in his locker.
[1:22:41] And I don't think there's anything in this film that he
[1:22:43] didn't use that he's learned in his long career.
[1:22:45] He's not left anything out. And at the same time, he doesn't
[1:22:48] overuse anything. It's a portfolio of work in two
[1:22:51] hours. It's a portfolio of his life, of
[1:22:53] what he's learned. One of the moments I paused was
[1:22:56] one that you'll easily miss. And it's after John and Connor
[1:22:59] have that bit where the he's beating them down and cursed the
[1:23:02] day you were born, right? And then it cuts to the doorway.
[1:23:05] It's that searcher shot and it cuts the doorway.
[1:23:07] And Michael Junior is just standing in the yard and he's
[1:23:11] got the suitcase and just pause that moment because he's framed
[1:23:14] in the doorway. He's lit from the side the way
[1:23:16] that Michael's lit without knowing where the lights coming
[1:23:18] from. Then he moves the camera.
[1:23:20] Then he puts Sullivan in the frame.
[1:23:22] Then he pushes forward and actually moves with it.
[1:23:24] It doesn't need to be that good. The shot doesn't need to be that
[1:23:27] well thought through or that well executed.
[1:23:29] There's not a frame in this that isn't absolutely impeccable.
[1:23:33] I don't really know what else to say about it, because you watch
[1:23:37] it in black and white and it works.
[1:23:39] Watch it without dialogue and it works it for me.
[1:23:41] The dialogue is getting in the way of this film most of the
[1:23:43] time because it is just so visually stunning and so
[1:23:46] beautifully executed. I mean, to put the Vertigo shot
[1:23:49] in the halfway section of a film to introduce a villain
[1:23:51] character, Yeah, that's what do it in a way that people haven't
[1:23:54] really seen it before. And you don't look at that and
[1:23:56] go, that's Jaws or it's Vertigo. You look at that and go, fuck,
[1:23:59] I've never seen that before. That was his version of it.
[1:24:02] That's what he's learned. There's such a varnish over this
[1:24:04] whole film, such a meticulous attention to detail.
[1:24:07] It's hard not to love this in the way that it celebrates
[1:24:10] cinema as a visual medium. It pulled me in more than any
[1:24:14] other film had at that time, and I'd seen a lot of films up to
[1:24:17] that point. 2002, this really pulled me.
[1:24:19] And it just said, this is like walking around a museum and
[1:24:22] every painting that you look at is one that resonates with you
[1:24:25] and one that you want to see. And each one gets better as you
[1:24:27] move through the museum. And then you leave and you go
[1:24:29] out in the daylight. You think I just want to go back
[1:24:31] in? Wow, the same interview.
[1:24:33] He was so humble. And if I was produced in a film
[1:24:36] like this, even if it was my last film, I would be an
[1:24:38] absolute Dick until I died. I.
[1:24:46] Love that honesty, West. How can you help?
[1:24:49] You want to put a masterpiece? Yeah, yeah, one of the best to
[1:24:52] ever do it. What do you think?
[1:24:54] My Conrad Holtz work. I just want to contrast it to
[1:24:57] American Beauty really, because that film, it's so vibrant.
[1:25:01] That red in particular really pops off the screen.
[1:25:03] The way he uses that. And then this, which is so
[1:25:06] muted, it's so elegant. It's like the music and that.
[1:25:08] It's all about serving the atmosphere, surfing the sorry,
[1:25:11] not overwhelming it when the camera moves and moves in a very
[1:25:14] measured wave. And if it ever moves quickly,
[1:25:16] it's startling, but then it should be startling.
[1:25:18] It provokes an emotional response in you.
[1:25:20] It's got this wintry, melancholic feel to it, the
[1:25:24] subdued Browns and blacks that this entire film has filled it
[1:25:27] to the use of shadow. Even when it's light, it's not
[1:25:30] broad daylight like say, it's that wintry light instead.
[1:25:33] It's just so integral to what this film should feel like, and
[1:25:36] it's what we said about the music.
[1:25:37] It's texture. Condor to Holt gives this film
[1:25:40] the texture and I think the look of this film.
[1:25:43] It is the one thing that I take away from this more than
[1:25:45] anything else. Yes, yeah.
[1:25:47] I mean, it's artwork, this. That is.
[1:25:50] Visual storytelling that it's most beautiful, most elegant,
[1:25:54] the way you use the shadow and light.
[1:25:56] Obviously masterful characters are constantly emerging from
[1:25:59] darkness or disappearing into it, which perfectly mirrors the
[1:26:02] ambiguity of the story. The colour palettes desaturated.
[1:26:07] That works brilliant because everything feels just drained of
[1:26:10] life, bereft of hope, which reflects Sullivan's emotional
[1:26:14] state. And when you do get the
[1:26:15] occasional splashes of colour, it's usually blurred.
[1:26:17] They hit like a gut punch. Yeah.
[1:26:20] And it's a composition work. He frames characters and
[1:26:22] doorways and windows, empty spaces around them.
[1:26:25] Like you were saying, that searches shot Westie, which just
[1:26:29] creates a sense of isolation even when people are in the same
[1:26:32] room, the few miles apart. Completely different to that on
[1:26:36] the other side of the scale, those Chicago skyline shots make
[1:26:39] the city feel magnificent and oppressive at the same time as a
[1:26:42] concrete jungle where violence echoes through the streets.
[1:26:45] He does that with one shot without any dialogue.
[1:26:48] Incredible. And there's not a single
[1:26:51] throwaway shot. He may be very modest and say,
[1:26:54] oh, that was just a happy accident or something like that.
[1:26:57] Nothing was just right. OK, cut, Prince.
[1:26:59] Let's move on. Everything's measured.
[1:27:01] Everything's considered. Everything's important.
[1:27:03] Everything means something. Yeah.
[1:27:05] I mean whole at the peak of his powers when he was an old man,
[1:27:09] Yeah, but one of the finest examples of his work.
[1:27:12] Yeah, it's a master at work. Mendez, as you said, Matt, he'd
[1:27:15] built a relationship with Conrad Hall, who shot American Beauty.
[1:27:18] He managed to get him on board with this film by sending them
[1:27:21] the script with a note that said a man lives his life in black
[1:27:24] and white but dreams in color. You love that straight in there.
[1:27:27] Yeah. Trying to steal that.
[1:27:32] What was that again man? Just.
[1:27:36] Put chiseled on me gravestone. And Mendez and Hall traveled to
[1:27:42] each prospective Illinois shooting location that we spent
[1:27:45] hours walking around with the viewfinder discussing how each
[1:27:48] building or street corner might be used to maximize dramatic
[1:27:51] effect. For Rota Petitions color
[1:27:52] palette, Hall proposed a stark, nearly monochromatic scheme of
[1:27:55] desaturated earth tones, shadow St. blacks and washed out Grays.
[1:27:59] Reds and oranges would be sparingly, like you said, look
[1:28:01] with the blood that really works and only the signal danger.
[1:28:04] Like you said, bloodshed. Yeah.
[1:28:06] And then that really works because when you see that it
[1:28:08] really impact. And costume designer Albert
[1:28:12] Wolsky and his team were encouraged to keep the costumes
[1:28:14] within a grim spectrum of charcoal Grey's, mossy greens
[1:28:18] and sepia toward Browns. The various pinstripe and three
[1:28:21] piece gangster suits retailed from fabric specially woven and
[1:28:25] dyed to maintain the intendants of dude look.
[1:28:27] The costumes of the film were specifically created.
[1:28:30] None of them are from the period, right?
[1:28:32] Yeah, there's legitimacy in that work.
[1:28:34] It looks amazing. Mendez and Hall studied, as
[1:28:37] we've talked about, The Godfather, Miller's Crossing,
[1:28:39] and Once Upon a Time in America. It deconstruct how those films
[1:28:42] use shadow and negative space to generate unease and dread.
[1:28:45] Yeah, I love that even though Conrad Hall was one of the first
[1:28:49] names in cinematography, he's still looking at things that
[1:28:52] came after him to inform what he does.
[1:28:55] Love that. And he also drew heavily from
[1:28:59] the work of artist Edward Hopper to establish the film's sombre,
[1:29:02] shadowy aesthetic. Mendez was particularly
[1:29:05] influenced by Hopper's use of light and shadow to convey
[1:29:08] characters in emotional States, and that's the technique he
[1:29:11] applied to the character of Michael Sullivan.
[1:29:12] So yeah, the 1939 Hopper Pain in New York movie Depends.
[1:29:16] In a pensive usher, shrouded in darkness was a key visual
[1:29:19] touchstone for Mendez and suggesting Sullivan's hidden
[1:29:22] emotional journey. Mendez said.
[1:29:25] In that one image, you begin to imagine what's on the other side
[1:29:27] of the frame. You know the words.
[1:29:29] What's important is what's off camera.
[1:29:32] Yeah. Seeking to create a palpable
[1:29:34] sense of danger and corruption through visual means, Hall
[1:29:37] employed his trademark dirty light and techniques.
[1:29:39] The aimed lamps directly into the lens causing light to flare
[1:29:42] across actors faces and reflect off rain St. windows and puddle
[1:29:45] strewn streets. That creates so much atmosphere.
[1:29:49] Oh, it really does. Yeah, yeah.
[1:29:50] Well, Conrad Hall's legendary work brings with it a legendary
[1:29:54] question from a patron. This is our second of the day.
[1:29:58] This one is from Daniel Holland. Hello, Daniel.
[1:30:00] Hello, Daniel. Daniel said.
[1:30:02] Hi, fellas. Longtime listener, first time
[1:30:04] caller. Great.
[1:30:05] Nice. Oh nice.
[1:30:06] Conrad Hall cinematography often let's scenes play out in shadow
[1:30:09] or soft light. How does this visual approach
[1:30:11] shape your emotional response to the story?
[1:30:14] And do you think the Edward Hobbit influence is the right
[1:30:16] look for the film? Great to have your question,
[1:30:19] Daniel. Thank you.
[1:30:20] And a cracking one that it is, absolutely.
[1:30:22] What are your thoughts on Daniels question?
[1:30:24] I mean, yeah, I think it's absolutely the right look for
[1:30:26] the film because this, this isn't a bombastic film.
[1:30:29] So it can't look as bombastic as something like the Untouchable
[1:30:32] Stores, even though it's obviously the same time period.
[1:30:35] It shouldn't look as epic as something like Once Upon a Time
[1:30:38] in America because this is a much more intimate film.
[1:30:41] You know, it is very wide screen, but it's also about
[1:30:44] huddled conversations on church pews and then diners in the
[1:30:49] middle of the night. You know, it's melancholic.
[1:30:51] And I think that's where you get in this work.
[1:30:53] And I think what Hall does is he keeps me slightly removed from
[1:30:56] it in that emotional sense. I think that's how he shapes my
[1:30:59] emotional response to the story because this isn't a film that
[1:31:02] makes you want to cry. It makes you want to feel
[1:31:04] somber. And the thing that Hall does?
[1:31:07] Yeah, I think what's brilliant about it is how it mirrors the
[1:31:09] moral ambiguity of the story. When characters are literally
[1:31:12] shrouded in darkness, we're never quite sure what they're
[1:31:15] thinking or feeling. Tell that thing where Sullivan
[1:31:17] sits in his car outside the Church of his face is in shadow,
[1:31:20] half in light. Visual storytelling.
[1:31:22] We've been talking about it, a man torn between his violent
[1:31:25] nature and his desire for redemption.
[1:31:28] And the soft lighting creates this kind of dream, like, almost
[1:31:31] memory like quality to the scenes.
[1:31:32] It makes everything feel slightly unreal, which is, I
[1:31:36] think, perfect because it's a story being told in retrospect
[1:31:39] by Michael Junior as an adult. Yeah.
[1:31:42] We're seeing these events through the filter of time and
[1:31:44] trauma, so that ethereal quality feels emotionally honest.
[1:31:48] I like that. And yeah, I mean, I'm not know
[1:31:50] much about the artsy, but I'm aware of Hopper's work.
[1:31:53] It appeals to me, and it fits very nicely for the film.
[1:31:57] He generally depicts Late Night Lawn as an empty streets, a
[1:32:00] perfect visual to carry the narrative of the film.
[1:32:03] That kind of existential loneliness, despite Michael
[1:32:06] being surrounded by his family, he's emotionally cut off from
[1:32:08] him, and I think that is emphasized by the visuals and
[1:32:11] the influence of Hopper as well. That's great.
[1:32:14] Yeah, I mean it's just has that in messy to it.
[1:32:16] I think a lot of Hopper's pants do have that intimacy to them,
[1:32:18] even if they are wide shots. You kind of diving into what's
[1:32:21] that character thinking, what's their motivations?
[1:32:23] And it's hop as use of shadow as well, I think really works and
[1:32:26] it's really translated here. Light and shadow does kind of
[1:32:29] bounce off each other. There's a duality to the
[1:32:31] cinematography, there's a duality to the whole film.
[1:32:33] There's a, you know, a light and dog up and down.
[1:32:35] There's a charity which really, really works.
[1:32:37] And I think how that buys into that 100%.
[1:32:40] The most I get from the cinematography in this and the
[1:32:43] look and the shape of the emotion is that it's a character
[1:32:46] in itself that creates this own world that has an authenticity
[1:32:49] to it. But you don't care if that
[1:32:51] authenticity is carried further in by the characters.
[1:32:55] And what I mean by that, I'll give you an example in this.
[1:32:58] In this time period, every single man who walked into a
[1:33:00] room, bought into a house, bought into a building, would
[1:33:03] remove the hat. It's suspicious if you don't
[1:33:05] you. We don't care about that because
[1:33:07] it looks better. It works better for the film.
[1:33:09] It's through the child's eyes. We're not bothered about that
[1:33:12] level of authenticity because you're getting such a level of
[1:33:14] authenticity through the cinematography, through the
[1:33:16] light and through the feel of the period.
[1:33:18] You don't want it to be too real.
[1:33:20] Try and do this again, it's impossible.
[1:33:22] Yeah, it is. Yeah, it's striking, absolutely
[1:33:24] striking work. So an outstanding crew.
[1:33:28] Great, right? The understated beauty of the
[1:33:30] music, but it's all overshadowed, naturally, by
[1:33:33] Conrad Hall's outstanding cinematography.
[1:33:35] Yet again, another Fitness One song.
[1:33:38] Yes, yeah. The end.
[1:33:46] The Sullivan Bank Robbins spree doesn't last long with the
[1:33:48] accountant pulling the plug on Chicago's money.
[1:33:51] I guess we should pay a visit to this Mr. Rance Westie.
[1:33:54] We should, yes, Mr. Rance, he is great.
[1:33:58] He's fantastic. Really comic performance.
[1:34:00] I would like an egg. I could run it.
[1:34:04] What is this? It's just, you know, it's very,
[1:34:07] very good. I love that performance.
[1:34:09] It is brilliant. And here there's a great build
[1:34:11] attention, some great setup, some some great payouts.
[1:34:14] And this is where I was talking about the sound design.
[1:34:16] You know that teletype machine starts going.
[1:34:19] You know that Mcguire's coming over the road.
[1:34:21] You get disguised from the sound of the hornies and coming up the
[1:34:24] stairs, you can hear the horn still going outside.
[1:34:26] You don't quite know what's going to happen.
[1:34:27] When's he going to come in? Branch then just runs into that
[1:34:30] other room. Gunshots go off before that.
[1:34:32] Even McGuire doesn't notice because the car's painted.
[1:34:35] And then he's obviously paying the woman in the hotel room, so
[1:34:37] he's distracted, and that's when Michael goes in.
[1:34:39] So everything's got a moment. Everything kind of makes perfect
[1:34:41] sense. Really welcome, really well
[1:34:45] staged. And then the gunshots going
[1:34:46] through the wall, you say, well, how to grant style.
[1:34:48] Oh, yeah, obviously the damn gunshots going through the wall.
[1:34:50] That makes sense. But this is the kind of the
[1:34:52] beginning of the end for Michael Sullivan.
[1:34:54] I think because McGuire is still hired at this point, he still
[1:34:59] has a job to do and this is where it gets personal because
[1:35:02] you forget about McGuire at the after the sequence.
[1:35:05] You do. You look at these hands, you
[1:35:07] just don't see what's going on. It's not really hit home enough.
[1:35:09] You're focused on some of them getting shot and him getting
[1:35:12] better. Then there's one last thing to
[1:35:13] do. There's two huge scenes coming
[1:35:15] up and then it comes back. This one kind of skips past them
[1:35:19] two scenes and has a real kind of Arc and a real moral arc.
[1:35:23] Regrettable 1. And it's great because this is
[1:35:26] set up in such a way where it feels like a finale where you
[1:35:29] have films where they're just to get shot and then the bad guy
[1:35:31] disappears. And I think it's great that the
[1:35:34] play on that and that comes back later on the horn.
[1:35:37] And it's one of their moments where I don't even think he
[1:35:39] meant he just wanted them out the way.
[1:35:40] He just wants the files. You know, if they could have
[1:35:42] just had a conversation. McGuire it's been like, look,
[1:35:44] I'm going to kill Rooney. This is all going to be over
[1:35:47] with. I get the files.
[1:35:48] You can just leave. I'll pay you the money.
[1:35:49] I've got the money here. That's what you want.
[1:35:51] So it becomes a real personal vendetta because of what Michael
[1:35:55] does. And it's heartbreaking when you
[1:35:57] see the scene with the second time, third time you watch it,
[1:35:59] known for a fact that it is setting something up that is
[1:36:02] unavoidable. Yeah, yeah.
[1:36:03] I really like that, that the scenes after this, like you
[1:36:06] said, are larger than life, bigger than this scene, even
[1:36:09] though this scene is huge. Yeah.
[1:36:11] So this character, you forget about him.
[1:36:13] He slides into the shadows and then that's it.
[1:36:16] Exactly. And then and then.
[1:36:17] Yeah, of course. Yeah.
[1:36:19] Only forget about this guy. Yeah, exactly.
[1:36:21] And in the scene where McGuire is stalking up to the Geneva
[1:36:25] Hotel across the ward with the shotgun under his court, there's
[1:36:28] a store that looks like it's been done out to look like from
[1:36:30] the period, but in actual fact, it's actually a Starbucks.
[1:36:33] Oh. Really.
[1:36:34] Yeah, yeah, production took it over for four days, shut it
[1:36:37] down, ran the Kraft Food Services out of it for the cast
[1:36:39] and crew, and retained all the Starbucks staff to make coffees
[1:36:43] for every everybody. On that.
[1:36:46] Yeah, Andy me know Starbucks, Yeah.
[1:36:48] Starbucks Now Michael gets out of there alive, but he is badly
[1:36:54] injured shot and this sequence afterwards feels a little
[1:36:58] contrived and by the numbers for me, I love it.
[1:37:02] But I also have a quite a few problems with this scene.
[1:37:05] As soon as he passes out, they're very fortuitously find a
[1:37:08] farm with some very friendly residents and one of them can
[1:37:13] remove bullets, which all is all very pleasant.
[1:37:15] Isn't this how handy we've seen this nursing back to health
[1:37:20] scene a million times. It feels paid by number.
[1:37:23] It's it's like witness. We've seen them many times.
[1:37:26] But what doesn't feel like paid by number is an absolutely
[1:37:29] stunning scene. Father and son around the table
[1:37:32] finally acting like father and son.
[1:37:35] I absolutely adore it. But it's almost as if that
[1:37:38] montage scene that I said before Westie didn't happen because of
[1:37:42] the way that Michael Senior treats Michael Junior in this
[1:37:45] thing. Yeah, it's like he doesn't know
[1:37:47] him. Exactly.
[1:37:48] It starts off very formal. Michael Junior's had a bad
[1:37:51] dream. Take a seat if you want.
[1:37:53] He sees that his dad is doing math.
[1:37:54] He says that he hates it. And what follows The
[1:37:57] conversation that just appears to be between two strangers.
[1:38:01] Yes. So what do you like?
[1:38:03] It's Google. What did you like?
[1:38:05] I mean, why doesn't he know this?
[1:38:07] He has been on and they have been up to some form of
[1:38:10] joviality when he's been teaching them how to drive and
[1:38:13] Robin Banks and all that kind of stuff.
[1:38:16] It's a beautiful scene. It's heartbreaking because
[1:38:19] Michael Junior, he says he likes Bible reading at school because
[1:38:22] he likes the stories. Just very childlike.
[1:38:25] Yeah. And then the emotion starts to
[1:38:27] tumble into the scene because he asked his dad if you like Peter
[1:38:30] more than him, and he said he was different with him.
[1:38:34] And he is the big emotional pole.
[1:38:36] Peter was such a sweet boy, but you were more like me and I
[1:38:39] didn't want you to be. Yeah.
[1:38:41] He's been called an approachable Michael senior towards the sun
[1:38:44] because he didn't want to follow the same path.
[1:38:46] And now we understand. I don't think that Michael
[1:38:49] Junior quite understands the reasoning, but he understands
[1:38:52] that his father has just opened up to him emotionally, probably
[1:38:54] for the first time in his life. And then a completely arresting
[1:39:00] moment. Devastating.
[1:39:01] Michael Junior gives his dad a hug.
[1:39:04] Something that should feel like the most natural thing in the
[1:39:06] world takes Michael Senior completely off guard.
[1:39:09] My heart drops. It's such a beautiful moment.
[1:39:13] Yeah. That is a perfect cap on that
[1:39:16] scene. It was a great scene without it,
[1:39:17] But that is just a beautifully judged moment.
[1:39:20] Poignant. Someone's chopping onions here.
[1:39:24] Incredible stuff. It's.
[1:39:25] A beautiful. Thing it really is.
[1:39:27] And then after this, you get the scene was built up to probably
[1:39:30] the most quoted scene in the film as well, which is really in
[1:39:33] the church and then the basement.
[1:39:35] And I think there's always something really evocative about
[1:39:38] people like Rooney who've built an empire on bloodshed, lived a
[1:39:41] brutal life, but they also take their religion and faith very
[1:39:45] seriously. He's not there at the church to
[1:39:48] play lip service. His faith is real.
[1:39:51] And if his faith is real and he's a very conflicted man
[1:39:54] because he knows what he's done and he can pray all he likes for
[1:39:57] forgiveness, but as much as the Catholic doctrines, God will
[1:40:01] always forgive. What if he makes an exception?
[1:40:03] Because if he's going to make an exception, it's going to be for
[1:40:06] someone like John Rooney. And I think that subtle fear and
[1:40:09] conflict is very, very palpable in nuance performance and in the
[1:40:13] same because. He's not sat there head bowed
[1:40:16] and pray. And it looks more to me like
[1:40:18] he's lost in his own thoughts, like what he's done is beyond
[1:40:21] redemption, so what's the point in prayer?
[1:40:23] And he knows the end is coming from soon because he's an old
[1:40:25] man of Lee. And then after Michael reveals
[1:40:28] he sat behind them, you get the scene in the basement and it's
[1:40:31] the same way. Really, I just want to quote
[1:40:32] every single line of dialogue because it's scintillating
[1:40:36] stuff. Not great.
[1:40:38] He murdered Annie and Peter. There were only murderers in
[1:40:41] this room. It's mind blown how good the
[1:40:44] dialogue is. You know, the line we've come
[1:40:46] back to again again, because, you know, we have the question
[1:40:48] about, you know, this is the life we choose, the life we
[1:40:50] lead. Just wonderful stuff.
[1:40:52] And you know, it's and again, this point is being made over
[1:40:55] and over again. It's not about revenge.
[1:40:56] It's about saving Michael Junior from going down the same mode of
[1:40:59] his father. But just when you watch Newman
[1:41:02] and Hanks going head to head here, you can almost see Hanks
[1:41:05] having to elevate his game just to keep up with Newman.
[1:41:09] I mean, I mean, Hanks is generally a better actor than
[1:41:11] everyone else in the film. So I kind of feel sometimes he
[1:41:14] doesn't have to try that hard to be great, accepting the same
[1:41:18] because he's not quite as good as Paul Newman, but he's going
[1:41:20] to raise his game to try and keep up with them as much as he
[1:41:22] can. And it ends up the two of them
[1:41:24] at their very best. Yeah.
[1:41:26] Peak Hanks. Peak Newman.
[1:41:28] Absolutely, it is amazing. I love that notion of blood is
[1:41:31] thicker than water and that's completely evident.
[1:41:33] And they say no matter how how bad Connor behaves, no matter
[1:41:37] what he does to damage his reputation, to damage his life,
[1:41:40] he'll always stick with him because his blood.
[1:41:42] Yeah. Love that.
[1:41:44] It's just, you know, I'm on the son that I've lost.
[1:41:48] Yeah, fantastic. Wow.
[1:41:52] Yeah, that's great. So with Michael's final olive
[1:41:55] branch snapped off, he has no alternative than to turn into an
[1:41:58] Angel of vengeance. Michael does stuff, is all
[1:42:04] faithful, and prepares to do battle one last time, one last
[1:42:07] thing, and then it's done. Yeah.
[1:42:10] Oh, and what a one last thing it is.
[1:42:12] Yeah, John Rooney and all of his men enter the rain drenched
[1:42:16] streets, the rain beaten down on the road so hard it looks like
[1:42:20] they're lost at sea, which of course they are.
[1:42:23] A blanket of blackness surrounds their existence in glorious slow
[1:42:27] more. Mendez has turned into John Woo
[1:42:29] as it's revealed the driver has been plugged and they're all
[1:42:33] sitting ducks. John knows what's happening
[1:42:36] immediately and you can see that he's accepted his face.
[1:42:39] He knows it's coming and the music is almost like a costly
[1:42:43] lullaby as the flash of light from the gun slashes through the
[1:42:46] darkness, cutting Rooney's men ribbons.
[1:42:49] It's poetic violence, no blood. The strings swell as Michael
[1:42:52] conference John 1 resigned look. And then I'm glad it's you.
[1:42:58] Oh dear me, this is poetry in motion.
[1:43:00] Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. And the pain on Michael's face.
[1:43:03] He knows what he has to do, but it's killing him.
[1:43:07] Yeah, But by doing this, he does sever the ties between the old
[1:43:11] and the new world, which offers a better life for his son.
[1:43:13] Obviously thematically relevant. We've talked about it, the shots
[1:43:17] of people looking out of their windows as well as if they're
[1:43:19] cast in judgement over Michael. He's truly going to hell now.
[1:43:24] But it was worth it for his family.
[1:43:25] Yeah. Yeah.
[1:43:26] A stunning scene. Oh, it's astonishing.
[1:43:29] If you listen to Mendez on the commentary, he said he just
[1:43:31] couldn't get this right. He couldn't cut it right.
[1:43:33] It wasn't working. He didn't know why it wasn't
[1:43:35] working. He came back to it a few days
[1:43:37] later and it was when he cut all of the sound out on the dub,
[1:43:39] which was a bit of an accident because they played it back
[1:43:41] without the sound. Oh, wow.
[1:43:43] And the thought, oh, shit, right, That totally works.
[1:43:45] Now, then let's just put the score over it.
[1:43:47] The way that that score is silenced by the Tommy gun and it
[1:43:51] just cuts above it. And the way the tanks looks
[1:43:53] down, you know, he's falling. Yeah, it's back up.
[1:43:55] It's an incredible piece of work, This.
[1:43:57] It's just unbelievably good. Outstanding it is.
[1:44:00] It is. And originally the scene was
[1:44:02] scripted to be set in an empty Chapel and it was actually shot,
[1:44:05] but Mendez felt that something was missing.
[1:44:07] So this then motivated the scene to be shot on the rain drenched
[1:44:10] streets. And Mendez said he was able to
[1:44:12] take advantage of the blurry Halos of St. lamps and, as he
[1:44:16] said, the inky void of the night sky to create a more ominous
[1:44:19] existential mood. Gray line, inky void of the
[1:44:22] night sky. Very nice.
[1:44:24] And yes, the whole scene was shot over 4 nights.
[1:44:26] It required 32 times squib detonations, a techno Korean
[1:44:29] cable of Verizon 6 stories and half a dozen rain machines
[1:44:33] working at full blast. Wow.
[1:44:35] And it's still. The one the most beautifully
[1:44:37] relaxed and heartbreak and meditations I've ever seen in
[1:44:39] cinema. It's just captivating.
[1:44:41] It's like watching a bride cry. Got much experience of that
[1:44:50] Westie? Wow.
[1:44:53] I've seen it. Get that on the poster.
[1:44:58] It's like watching a bride cry, Westie.
[1:45:09] So then after this, there's one more person Michael's got to
[1:45:12] take care of and we know this has been coming.
[1:45:14] And what's been interesting is throughout this before said
[1:45:17] there's like 1 scene in the film we have a slight issue with and
[1:45:20] this one's mine because I think it's set up brilliantly.
[1:45:23] That phone call with Nitty given up Connor is going to end the
[1:45:26] feud. And I love the look on the faces
[1:45:29] of the bodyguards is that just let Michael through the hotel
[1:45:31] know what he's going to do Because it's like, yeah, you
[1:45:34] know what kind of deserves it? He's been an absolute asshole
[1:45:37] back there. So, you know, I'm quite glad.
[1:45:39] He's got a backstage pass, hasn't he?
[1:45:41] It's great. Exactly.
[1:45:41] Yeah, it's great. But the issue I have is it's the
[1:45:44] one part where I think Mendez has been too restrained and too
[1:45:48] artful for his own good. It looks incredible the way that
[1:45:52] the door swings back to short Connors reflection in the Mirror
[1:45:55] Now that Michael shot him and he uses in the bath.
[1:45:57] But it's the one bit where I want an emotional release.
[1:46:00] Don't get it. You know, this guy murdered
[1:46:02] Michael's wife and youngest boy. You want the moment of revenge?
[1:46:06] You just don't get it. It's very dispassionate.
[1:46:08] And I know there's an argument for that.
[1:46:11] The Michael's just like whatever I've had to kill his father.
[1:46:14] This guy means nothing to me. But all the same, that's his
[1:46:16] personal choice. And that's fine.
[1:46:18] But my reaction is personal in my reaction is this feels like
[1:46:21] an afterthought. And I'm not saying he has to be
[1:46:23] like slugging him around the hotel room or anything like
[1:46:25] that. But if you go back to the
[1:46:27] graphic novel, in this scene when Michael has Connor at
[1:46:30] gunpoint, Connor says I'll see you in hell.
[1:46:32] And Michael's reply is hell will be heaven if I can spend
[1:46:35] eternity making you pay for what you did to her.
[1:46:38] Now that's magnificent line. That's one-on-one from this
[1:46:41] scene. Why is that line not here?
[1:46:42] Yeah. I can't fathom why that line's
[1:46:45] not there. It's amazing line dialogue.
[1:46:47] Yeah, that makes the scene. It does, yeah.
[1:46:49] So from there to, it's a happy ending, isn't it?
[1:46:51] We're absolutely fine. Yeah, they've even got a dog.
[1:46:54] Yeah, they've got a dog there. The actor told you there was a
[1:46:57] dog and Zach driving. He's he's heads out the window.
[1:46:59] Mike Sullivan has completely let his guard down, his collars
[1:47:02] open. He's grown his hair a little bit
[1:47:04] more. He's just, you know, he's shirts
[1:47:05] on, tucked his waist coats not fast.
[1:47:07] And he's ready to just call it a day.
[1:47:08] And that's it. He's ready to settle down.
[1:47:10] And we're all ready to settle down with him.
[1:47:12] And I love that moment where The Walking across the beach and
[1:47:15] it's beautiful. But then he says, is that the
[1:47:17] house? So I fucking hope so, because
[1:47:19] there's nothing else. Why we otherwise?
[1:47:23] Absolutely. Miles is like, no, there's three
[1:47:25] more down the bottom, which would normally be quite
[1:47:27] realistic. No, that's not the house.
[1:47:29] It's that little one that we can afford down there.
[1:47:32] But yeah, it's great. I'll just love that.
[1:47:33] The way it's it's set up and it's it's done in such a joyful
[1:47:36] way because we are at once in probably the most brightest
[1:47:39] scene in the film and it is just feel almost overexposed after
[1:47:43] everything else we've seen. It's like Michael Mann, isn't
[1:47:45] it? Yeah.
[1:47:46] And once, you know, a false sense security and you know,
[1:47:49] it's a beach scene, but we're forgetting.
[1:47:50] We've seen Sullivan junior on the beach at the very start
[1:47:53] looking at the water. We've forgotten about that.
[1:47:55] We forgot about a lot of things which are going to come back to
[1:47:57] home in a minute. And there's that tracking
[1:47:59] through the house and he shouts, we're here, Sarah.
[1:48:02] And there's just that amazing reflected shot where my son was
[1:48:07] looking out and then you see him waving and it's just that pang,
[1:48:11] that pang. And it's just, it's just so
[1:48:13] heartbreakingly, beautifully played out.
[1:48:16] I think it's Hanks just trying to hang on and not not fall to
[1:48:20] the floor. And then when he does, you just
[1:48:22] see that reveal of that shadowy figure and just the camera
[1:48:25] getting picked up and you think, oh, for folks think, why did I
[1:48:30] forget about that? Why did I let me guard down?
[1:48:33] And it does it to the audience because you let your guard down
[1:48:35] as soon as he does, and as soon as he does, he's punished for
[1:48:38] it. And then when you see that smile
[1:48:40] and he takes the picture, he's just the most loathsome.
[1:48:43] Character. Yeah, he is horrific.
[1:48:45] And you think you're benefiting from this moment and you just
[1:48:47] invested in the Sullivan's at this point.
[1:48:49] You just think, yes, we're going to get there.
[1:48:51] And now we have this sledgehammer from Mendez
[1:48:54] Juniors. Got a gun, Mike Sullivan.
[1:48:55] Don't do it, don't do it. Go on and give us a gun back.
[1:48:58] It was a gun back. And there's probably the this is
[1:49:00] the one shot that I really dislike in the film and it kind
[1:49:02] of pulls as I was when that triggers pulled in, the gun goes
[1:49:05] off and you get that shot of why you get that chart.
[1:49:07] Jude Law just it's slow motion, but it's like a strange kind of
[1:49:12] slow motion doesn't really feel like it fits.
[1:49:14] And I think if you've got Conrad Hall there, there's there's a
[1:49:16] couple of ways to shoot that. So it has an ambiguity, but who
[1:49:19] pulled the trigger and what happened?
[1:49:20] And I think that just happens a little bit fast, falls to the
[1:49:23] floor, and you know for a fact that Michael's pulled the
[1:49:25] trigger. In the end, you get that line.
[1:49:27] I couldn't do it. I know, yeah.
[1:49:29] And it's almost said, I know, I know where, you know, everyone
[1:49:33] fucking knows that I couldn't do it.
[1:49:34] Yeah, OK. Did really have to put that in
[1:49:36] so you could have shot that. You don't know who pulled the
[1:49:39] trigger. Yeah, yeah.
[1:49:40] But it's just so quickly swept away, like, don't worry, guys, I
[1:49:43] couldn't do it at all. Yeah.
[1:49:44] It's fine. It's tied up in a nice little
[1:49:46] ball, isn't? It it is tied up in a little
[1:49:48] bit. It is nice and it's fine.
[1:49:49] I think that's in 2002. That's what audiences needed.
[1:49:52] And I think someone like Spielberg's going, you know, you
[1:49:54] need the kind of just make sure that's emphasized.
[1:49:56] But we could lose some money here if you don't make that a
[1:50:01] little bit more obvious. And it made its money back and
[1:50:03] it really hits home and that's absolutely fine.
[1:50:05] But it's that return to the farm for me.
[1:50:07] And that voice over. Yeah, beautiful.
[1:50:09] I do love the reveal of the scarred face of Harlem Aguire
[1:50:13] smile. It's shocking.
[1:50:15] Yeah, it is. And Mendez instructed Jude Law
[1:50:18] to play Mcguire's death as if he were the Wicked Witch of the
[1:50:21] West from The Wizard of Oz, slowly sinking out of existence
[1:50:24] rather than expiring suddenly. Fantastic.
[1:50:27] Yeah, it's a great fall to the floor.
[1:50:28] I love that that reverse shot. Yes, a fit and ending.
[1:50:32] And he's another fit and ending. Our third and final period on
[1:50:36] QUESTION. OK, this comes from Rob Ball.
[1:50:39] Hello, Rob. Hello, Rob.
[1:50:40] Rob says. Is there a movie that makes you
[1:50:43] feel more hollow and sad at the end of it?
[1:50:45] The sun is safe and perhaps we'll have a new family.
[1:50:48] But the most important people in his life are gone, and he has a
[1:50:51] terrible secret at the center of his life.
[1:50:54] Yes, Rob. Yes, indeed.
[1:50:56] A good punch, Westie, I'm certain you've got a number of
[1:51:01] good punches in your holster. A plethora.
[1:51:04] A plethora. Why do you say I have a
[1:51:07] plethora? Brilliant.
[1:51:14] Yes, El Vapo, this I mean, there's there's too many to
[1:51:19] really mention, but I've gone for the top three hard hitters.
[1:51:21] OK, one that's not as hard because it's one of my favorite
[1:51:25] films of all time. But I also find it quite hollow
[1:51:27] and quite reward. I mean, it's a really rewarding
[1:51:29] film and you know that that's going to happen.
[1:51:31] But the end of the Assassination of Jesse James by the covered
[1:51:33] Robert Ford, there we go, is hollow.
[1:51:36] It's sad, it's reflective in start voice over.
[1:51:40] It's just incredibly poignant. You know, they're not going to
[1:51:42] pay $0.15 a stand in the rooms he grew up in.
[1:51:44] He's nothing. It's failure and that was it.
[1:51:47] And then just the way you get shot in the way that stage is
[1:51:49] beautifully done shot by taking nothing else to say about that
[1:51:52] apart from it finishes and I go back and watch it again.
[1:51:58] One that I can never what? Well, there's two I can never
[1:52:00] watch again. Actually the the first one that
[1:52:02] I was on the floor in a ball in foetal position sobbing was
[1:52:06] Dancer in the Dark. Oh wow.
[1:52:08] Lost one trio. Can't.
[1:52:11] I can't revisit that. I can't go back to that.
[1:52:13] I can't think about that very much.
[1:52:15] Absolutely shattering. But then again, it's a large
[1:52:17] frontier film. What?
[1:52:18] Exactly what you. Expect.
[1:52:20] But you know, Bjork's in it, there's a bit of dance and I
[1:52:22] thought he might have just mellowed slightly, but no way
[1:52:25] was I wrong. And the last one for me that was
[1:52:28] so, so hard to bear was the Mist.
[1:52:31] That ended. Yeah, that ending is, come on,
[1:52:34] shattering. But again, I mean, it's
[1:52:36] brilliantly executed. All these are brilliantly
[1:52:37] executed and brilliant films, two of which I'll never see
[1:52:39] again and one that I'll watch, you know, as often as I can,
[1:52:42] really. But yeah, if you haven't seen
[1:52:44] them, I mean, just prepare yourself.
[1:52:45] Yeah, yeah. What about you, Matt?
[1:52:49] Yeah, I've got 3 as well. First one, I'm going to say The
[1:52:51] Fly, because that's the way that I always forget.
[1:52:56] Like whenever I go watch that again, it ends with Veronica,
[1:53:00] the Geena Davis character, obviously killing Seth, Jeff
[1:53:04] Goldblum's character to put him out of his misery.
[1:53:06] And Goldblum is brilliant in that film.
[1:53:09] Like you never ever doubt that. Still Seth underneath all the
[1:53:13] you know, the disgusting special effects and it's got that thing
[1:53:16] where the monster is tragic and you feel sorry for throughout
[1:53:20] and this is thing she kills him and then cut to credits.
[1:53:23] It's like. Well, yeah, there you go.
[1:53:24] Deal with that. Deal with that.
[1:53:27] Wow. So yeah, that one, a film I've
[1:53:29] already mentioned, went on about favorite quotes, but Dead Man
[1:53:32] Shoes again, that that mission of revenge, he goes on, he gets
[1:53:36] it, but at what cost? At what cost to him?
[1:53:39] You know, you get that feeling at the end.
[1:53:42] And one that I've mentioned on a paper on episode recently, I
[1:53:46] won't go into it too much because it's still quite recent.
[1:53:48] So OK worry about spoilers but after some that has got.
[1:53:52] All right. The last five minutes that will
[1:53:54] just knock you off your feet. Yeah, if you haven't seen it,
[1:53:58] check it out, but be prepared. Bleak bleak bleak bleak On this
[1:54:03] question I thought about Mystic River because we've talked about
[1:54:06] recently on Double feature yeah it's just a devastating film
[1:54:10] that just shows that it will affect when something life
[1:54:12] changing happens in the community in the impact poor
[1:54:15] Celeste, played by Marsha Gearhart she's left with nothing
[1:54:18] by the by the end or. It's a lot of exhale in here.
[1:54:23] Hope. You're happy, Rob.
[1:54:26] He's the biggest exhale of them all.
[1:54:30] One that came to mind immediately.
[1:54:32] It left me bereft. Absolutely bereft.
[1:54:35] Hollowed out. I was not Luke anymore.
[1:54:38] It is Manchester by the Sea. Yeah, the title sounds quite
[1:54:43] playful. Fun seaside town.
[1:54:46] Oh no, there was an emotional dread, like just all over, just
[1:54:51] imposing itself on the film. Casey Affleck's character
[1:54:55] carries this unbearable secret and guilt, and the film holds
[1:54:59] back for so long that you're desperate to find out the source
[1:55:01] of his pain. But then it's revealed and you
[1:55:04] wish it wasn't absolutely horrific.
[1:55:08] It'll have to be a good reason to revisit that film again for
[1:55:12] me. Fantastic film and all of that,
[1:55:14] but fuck me. Not going on a classic anytime
[1:55:18] soon, is it? I'm.
[1:55:19] Not watching that now. But thank you very much for the
[1:55:23] question, Rob. Fitting ending.
[1:55:26] Yes, yeah, we're going to sleep well tonight.
[1:55:27] Yes. So we've lived a lifetime on the
[1:55:30] road. In the winter of 1931, was
[1:55:33] Michael Sullivan a good man, or was there no good in him at all?
[1:55:36] One thing is for certain, he was a father.
[1:55:39] Yes. Deception and awards.
[1:55:46] After a 72 days shoot, Mendez and his editing team were left
[1:55:49] with a mammoth seven months in the cutting room, 12 hours a
[1:55:52] day, seven days a week. Of the scenes that didn't make
[1:55:55] the code were the home one that was mentioned earlier.
[1:55:58] And there was also a deeper back story with Jennifer Jason Lee's
[1:56:01] character Annie, in particular, her role in protecting the boys
[1:56:04] from the life of crime that their father leads.
[1:56:07] But that got good because Mendez felt it slowed the pace too
[1:56:09] much. Just a shame.
[1:56:11] Like I say, we need. More JGL.
[1:56:13] We need more Jennifer. Yes, absolutely.
[1:56:15] And finally, a scene that Mendez agonized over was one that had
[1:56:18] Michael Junior confessing his dad's sins to a priest.
[1:56:21] Yes. That played just before senior
[1:56:23] dies. Mendez felt it blunted the end,
[1:56:25] its impact. As discussed, probably a little
[1:56:28] too on the nose. Yeah, I think so, yeah.
[1:56:31] Wrote a Position was originally slated to be released in the
[1:56:33] winter of 2001, but Mendez requested more time and set his
[1:56:38] sights on a July 2002 release. An odd choice for a film of this
[1:56:42] nature to go up against the likes of Men in Black 2 Minority
[1:56:45] Report Gold Member. I know which one I'm watching
[1:56:50] first, which one scroll on afterwards.
[1:56:53] Gold member Yeah, men there saw it as an opportunity to separate
[1:56:56] from the pack, a move which proved successful on a big time
[1:56:59] $80 million budget, which is big broader petition returned a
[1:57:03] healthy 296,000,000 ended up as the 16th highest grossing film
[1:57:07] of the which is just not happening.
[1:57:10] No, in this day and age, definitely not.
[1:57:12] And it wasn't just box office figures that were impressive.
[1:57:14] Review is largely waxed lyrical about the film.
[1:57:17] Richard Corliss in Time magazine said.
[1:57:19] Brilliantly photographed, meticulously directed and acted
[1:57:22] with utter confidence, it's a movie in which every note seems
[1:57:25] perfectly pitched. High praise.
[1:57:28] Yeah, Yeah. And Empire gave it 4 out of five
[1:57:31] saying this is supremely crafted grown up movie making that never
[1:57:35] escapes its pulp origins. The themes are well worn and the
[1:57:38] structure predictable, but these are gangster cliches is gift
[1:57:41] wrap by Fortnum and Mason in the grandeur of the film slips down
[1:57:44] like fine caviar. Ah, fantastic.
[1:57:48] Don't disagree with that. And I will triumph the big man
[1:57:52] himself, Big Roger Rebus. What do you think?
[1:57:54] He gave it out of four. 3. 33 third time's a charm.
[1:57:59] You got it all right. He healed it as a masterful and
[1:58:02] eloquent film by a director who understands that action is the
[1:58:05] character, but also said that he felt emotionally detached from
[1:58:08] the characters at times. And I knew I admired it, but I
[1:58:11] didn't know if I liked it. Yeah, it is cold and holds us
[1:58:15] outside. Right, that's.
[1:58:16] What I think you said at the top, Westie?
[1:58:18] Not a love and admiration, I think.
[1:58:20] Yeah, very much. And now Rd.
[1:58:23] Petition has 82% on Rotten Tomatoes, and an IMDb score of
[1:58:26] 7.6 out of 10. Sadly, Conrad Hall died around
[1:58:30] seven months after the release of the film, his final work of
[1:58:33] art. A fitting way to go out.
[1:58:35] He posthumously was awarded the Best Cinematography Oscar.
[1:58:38] Mendez picked it up on his path. And choking back the TS in the
[1:58:41] speech, he paid tribute to a career that began in black and
[1:58:45] white and ended in a blaze of colour.
[1:58:47] And if you watch it on YouTube, you can see in the audience
[1:58:50] Hanks and humans to watch on very tearfully.
[1:58:52] No surprise. Yeah, beautiful.
[1:58:55] No surprise. The Road to Position was
[1:58:56] nominated in five of the categories of the Oscars, Sound
[1:58:59] editing, Sound, original Score, Art Direction and supporting
[1:59:03] actor Paul Newman. Lovely callback that.
[1:59:11] Love it. But alas, it missed out on all
[1:59:18] of them. The winners that year?
[1:59:19] It was well balanced. Can you remember what won Best
[1:59:22] Picture? Chicago.
[1:59:26] Oh, yes. Well done, Matt.
[1:59:29] Yeah, that won best picture. Polanski won for best out for
[1:59:32] the pianist. I mean, those two decisions, I'm
[1:59:35] certain if we had a redo there would be made different.
[1:59:39] There would be something different.
[1:59:41] Yeah, come on. So in the busy summer months of
[1:59:45] 2002, Wrote Up Edition stood head and shoulders above most of
[1:59:48] its contemporaries and even got some justified awards
[1:59:50] recognition despite being released six or seven months
[1:59:53] before award season, A testament to the stay and power of the
[1:59:56] film. Yeah.
[1:59:57] Yes, sequels and influence. Despite the graphic novel having
[2:00:05] many follow-ups, nothing has materialized on the big screen
[2:00:09] in the shape of a sequel. So what of the film's influence
[2:00:12] and legacy in the years since it's released?
[2:00:14] Westie, where do you stand on that?
[2:00:16] I think we saw a few very similar types of films, Gangster
[2:00:20] Squad and failed and Enemies came out and and didn't do as
[2:00:28] well. And I honestly think of Conrad
[2:00:30] Hall had lived longer and he was maybe 5 years younger and he did
[2:00:34] this film. I think he would have just been
[2:00:35] right when he do a Conrad Hall film, much like you know what
[2:00:38] happened with Deakins once he got recognized after the Coen
[2:00:41] brothers stuff and he's doing Blade Runner and Blade Runners
[2:00:43] like a feeling of Deakins joint. Do you know what I mean?
[2:00:46] It's safe because of Deakins. It has an identity now and
[2:00:50] Mendez took that and who was the best person to go to after this
[2:00:53] Deakins? So that's the short jaw head
[2:00:56] with him and try to keep to maintain that.
[2:00:58] So I think the influences, especially on some Mendez was,
[2:01:02] you know, the confidence to move forward, but also the importance
[2:01:05] of cinematography. And I think we've seen a leap
[2:01:07] massively since the death of Conrad Hall in much improved,
[2:01:10] much more thought through cinematography throughout
[2:01:12] cinema. I think especially moving into
[2:01:13] the digital age, I think people appreciate it now when they look
[2:01:16] at it differently. And I think this was the film
[2:01:18] that made people wake up. Yeah, fantastic.
[2:01:21] What about you, Matt? I'm going to go TV for the first
[2:01:23] influence. I think Boardwalk Empire, just
[2:01:26] the look of that series. I mean, obviously petition can't
[2:01:29] claim credit fraud being set in that particular time period.
[2:01:32] It's a fascinating period all the same.
[2:01:35] But Even so, I think Boardwalk and by just shares a lot of this
[2:01:38] film's DNAI think the casting of Hanks, I think that's had an
[2:01:41] influence because that short that sometimes you don't always
[2:01:44] have to cast the obvious choices for Stone Cold killers and men
[2:01:47] of violence. So I think even though it's
[2:01:49] completely, totally different, you get something like Bob
[2:01:52] Odenkirk and nobody similar kind of thing.
[2:01:54] Like I wouldn't expect him to be that.
[2:01:56] I think that comes down Hanks. I find myself saying this quite
[2:01:59] a lot, but quite a lot of these films, it's about the influence
[2:02:01] on the director himself. And I think Mendez doing this,
[2:02:04] as I said, the top, so completely different to American
[2:02:06] Beauty and it work. And for the most part, I just
[2:02:09] think it gave him the confidence to keep doing that.
[2:02:12] Because I think looking at his career, the interesting thing
[2:02:14] about him is apart from when he came back to do a second Bond
[2:02:16] film, when he did Spectre, he's never revisited the same genre.
[2:02:20] He's always moved on to something different, which is
[2:02:22] what I really like about Mendez. So I think this one work and as
[2:02:25] much as it did probably had a lot to do with that.
[2:02:27] Yeah, I think going to repeat quite a few things that you
[2:02:30] fellas have said. The visual influence, Conrad
[2:02:32] Hall, cinematography that's become a a template for how to
[2:02:35] shoot morally ambiguous crime dramas.
[2:02:37] You can see it all over the likes of The Dark Knight, Blade
[2:02:40] Runner, Deacons, like you said, Westie acknowledged studying Rd.
[2:02:44] of additions, use of light and shadow for that.
[2:02:46] Yeah. And Tom Hanks, he was kind of
[2:02:49] like an everyman up until this point, but this opened the door
[2:02:52] to be a little bit more morally ambiguous with his choices.
[2:02:56] Not over the top, but he certainly made a few more
[2:02:59] different choices than he was making in the 90s.
[2:03:01] Yeah. Significantly, though, I think
[2:03:04] wrote the edition helped prove that comic book adaptations
[2:03:06] don't have to be about superheroes.
[2:03:08] No, yeah. Sure, Hollywood, that graphic
[2:03:10] novels could be source material for serious adult dramas.
[2:03:14] Things like History of Violence for example.
[2:03:16] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Spielberg called it a permanent
[2:03:19] masterpiece, and I think that's been proven as well.
[2:03:23] All of these years on, it's still the gold standard for how
[2:03:25] to make a beautiful, melancholic crime film that doesn't
[2:03:28] glamorize violence but examines its true cost.
[2:03:32] So no sequels, but a wonderful legacy and, as discussed at
[2:03:35] length, a beautiful way to go out for 2 Legends of the Silver
[2:03:39] Screen. Yeah, yes, absolutely.
[2:03:44] All the right movies ranking. We've reached the end of our
[2:03:48] road and there's only one guarantee none of us will escape
[2:03:51] without giving our final verdict.
[2:03:53] This is the world famous ATRM ranking math.
[2:03:56] Could you summarize and give you score out of 10 for Rd. of
[2:03:59] edition please? It's a really, really beautiful
[2:04:02] film. It's stunning in so many ways,
[2:04:04] as we've said, so much that comes down to Conrad Hall.
[2:04:07] I think there's a lot of confidence in a lot of ways from
[2:04:09] NSA to do something very different to what he'd
[2:04:11] previously done. And and Newman, as I said, he
[2:04:14] just signs off with one of his greatest roles.
[2:04:16] But when I was thinking about this, I was asking myself the
[2:04:18] question, why don't I watch it more often than I do?
[2:04:22] And I think, you know, there are some scenes I don't quite work
[2:04:24] tonally like the one I mentioned.
[2:04:26] I don't get the release at the end when he kills Connor that I
[2:04:28] think I should get. Yeah.
[2:04:30] I kind agree with Wesley about the montage scene.
[2:04:33] It feels a little out of place. I mean, Hank Hanks is great, but
[2:04:36] could that have been pushed a little further?
[2:04:38] I think maybe. And I think it does come down to
[2:04:42] what Rod Riebert said in his. I think this is a film to really
[2:04:45] admire rather than love nothing. That's where I am with it.
[2:04:49] And we've talked about Edward Hopper a lot.
[2:04:50] And I think if I had like an Edward Hopper downstairs, I'll
[2:04:53] just be really glad to know that I have it and it's down there.
[2:04:56] I wouldn't look at it every day. It would be something where it
[2:04:59] catches my eye when I'm not expecting that I'll go, fuck,
[2:05:02] that's a beautiful, beautiful picture.
[2:05:03] And that's what it wrote to petition for me.
[2:05:06] It's not want to watch a lot because like I say, it's just a
[2:05:08] little emotionally distant for me for large parts of it, but
[2:05:12] it's a beautiful thing nonetheless.
[2:05:14] So it's an 8.5 for me. Still a thoroughly decent score.
[2:05:18] Yeah. What about you, Westie?
[2:05:20] Really tough one for me this, to be honest, because there is so
[2:05:24] much admiration from it that I don't know whether that
[2:05:27] overshadows parts of what a film should be and what we'd look at
[2:05:31] the other films that are on the on the board and films that I've
[2:05:34] give top marks to. And they are just perfect films
[2:05:38] for me all the way through. And I would find it quite hard
[2:05:41] to argue with somebody over the montage sequence.
[2:05:44] I found it quite hard when Matt was saying about the Lexington
[2:05:47] Hotel. I'm like, yeah, yeah, you know,
[2:05:50] that's, that's right. Yeah, you're all right.
[2:05:52] It does have flaws. I mean, if I was going on
[2:05:55] cinematography, this would be 20 out of 10 of.
[2:05:57] Course. It's it's easily it's easily one
[2:06:00] of the best films I've ever seen visually and watch it in black
[2:06:04] and white as well, if you haven't.
[2:06:05] And I'll keep banging about that, but it's a completely
[2:06:07] different experience and it's a wonderful thing.
[2:06:09] So I'm not going to tell people how to do it.
[2:06:10] I've got methods of, you know, change and saturation on my
[2:06:12] television. All televisions are different.
[2:06:15] So I don't want people getting in touch with we're going me
[2:06:18] Telly's now fucked and I'm watching everything in Spanish
[2:06:20] or something. So that's up to you if you want
[2:06:23] to do that. But again, it just has that
[2:06:25] layer and that layer, unfortunately, is visual and
[2:06:28] it's not content wise. And I love the sentiment.
[2:06:30] I love that. I love the way that's played
[2:06:31] out. Are you not always cheer up at
[2:06:33] the end? Because I have a son's nine
[2:06:34] years old and I have that kind of relationship and it really
[2:06:38] works, that father son dynamic. And it's really well addressed
[2:06:41] in the film. But again, it feels like
[2:06:42] Spielberg's kind of tapping him on the shoulder.
[2:06:44] Don't go there, do this, be safe on here, go that far there, go
[2:06:48] there. It's a beautiful thing.
[2:06:50] I'd ask anyone to watch it but I find it really hard to defend
[2:06:52] because it does have its flaws but it's still a nine out of 10
[2:06:54] for me. Nine.
[2:06:56] Yeah, very nice. A great score.
[2:06:58] Well, I think this film does get better with every viewing for
[2:07:01] me. And what struck me most this
[2:07:03] time around was how restrained it is.
[2:07:05] I think the less capable of hands.
[2:07:07] It could have been just a flashy gangster film.
[2:07:09] It could have maintained its poppy roots.
[2:07:11] But Mendez shows incredible discipline and letting the
[2:07:14] emotion breathe between the violets.
[2:07:17] Hanks gives a great performance. He subverts his screen persona.
[2:07:21] It doesn't feel forced, but it doesn't feel a 100% believable.
[2:07:26] Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Paul Newman, I mean, bloody
[2:07:29] hell, yeah. What are we to bow out?
[2:07:32] Every scene he's in crackles with decades of accumulated
[2:07:35] screen presence. Visually, I mean, Connie Hall
[2:07:38] moving through a series of Hopper paintings given depth in
[2:07:41] more ways than one of the visuals.
[2:07:43] Yeah, I mean, just artwork. And I really do like the
[2:07:47] writing. I've had a couple of criticisms,
[2:07:50] but it is very stylized. I don't think it's possible to
[2:07:53] absolutely shake its comic book roots.
[2:07:56] And that's a personal choice just because I'm sure that
[2:07:58] appeals to a lot of people. It doesn't necessarily appeal to
[2:08:01] me. Yeah, of course.
[2:08:02] And because it's got that veneer of Sheen that prevents me from
[2:08:05] becoming that emotionally attached to the story.
[2:08:08] It should be heartbreaking. And I'm an easy mark, but it's
[2:08:11] never been that emotionally effective to me.
[2:08:14] Right. Yeah.
[2:08:14] A stunning film nonetheless. Great to look at.
[2:08:17] Great work overall, it's an 8.5 out of 10 from me.
[2:08:21] Right, OK. So a little bit of consistency
[2:08:24] there with three scores. The final score for Rd. of
[2:08:27] Edition comes from our incredible period supporters
[2:08:30] who've been written the film whilst coming to our amazing
[2:08:33] community. Thank you guys.
[2:08:35] Yes. Thank you so much guys.
[2:08:36] Before I reveal the score, let me pick out some wonderful
[2:08:39] comments, Jamie Beckett said. A beautifully rendered film with
[2:08:42] lovely cinematography and framing.
[2:08:44] Always felt a bit emotionally shallow.
[2:08:47] That said, it seems to get better with repeated viewings.
[2:08:49] Some superb performances as well.
[2:08:52] Yeah, well said Jamie. Lou Noon said Tom Hanks with an
[2:08:56] unbelievable performance and really shows his acting chops
[2:08:58] throughout. Newman's incredible and due laws
[2:09:01] performance is one that stays with you.
[2:09:03] What an under appreciated movie in a tremendous piece of cinema.
[2:09:07] As Billy Bob once said so eloquently in Varsity Blues 10,
[2:09:12] I give it a ten. Wow.
[2:09:14] Deep cut Blues, deep cut. Love it.
[2:09:18] I didn't know where he was going without.
[2:09:21] And finally, from Ian Joyner. Ian said staggeringly beautiful
[2:09:24] at times, but there are a better written takes on the Prohibition
[2:09:27] era. Jude Law's character Jazz at
[2:09:29] times with the otherwise serious and somber tone.
[2:09:31] And as fantastic as Hanks is, we never see or understand exactly
[2:09:35] why he's such a fear enforcer that can't be just taken out
[2:09:38] with the strength of force available to the likes of Capone
[2:09:41] and maybe. Yeah, 8.
[2:09:43] Right. OK, so a mixed bag.
[2:09:45] A lot of positives there. Yeah.
[2:09:47] Thank you for joining in, everyone.
[2:09:49] What do you think Road to petition averaged from our
[2:09:52] parents, fellas? I'm.
[2:09:54] Gonna say probably 8.5. Yeah, I'll go 8.5. 8.50 just
[2:09:59] missed out nine out of 10. Oh, OK, nice.
[2:10:02] I'm happy with that to be honest.
[2:10:04] Of course. Yeah.
[2:10:06] So that means that road to positions.
[2:10:07] Overall ATRM score is 35 out of 40, not quite reaching the
[2:10:12] summit, but mixing it with some elite company for certain.
[2:10:15] Yep. Yeah.
[2:10:16] Join us again on all the right movies.
[2:10:17] In two weeks, John, Westie and Matt will be jumping centuries
[2:10:20] to the 1700s as they tackle the epic sweep of Michael Mann's
[2:10:24] Last of the Mohicans. A big fan favorite, fellas.
[2:10:27] Exciting. Yeah, it's grateful it.
[2:10:29] Sweeps. Along and then some.
[2:10:30] Oh, can't wait for that. Yeah, this month on Double
[2:10:33] Feature we're talking about the Gone Too Soon, River Phoenix and
[2:10:37] Stand by Me and Sneakers. 2 great films, 1 great podcast.
[2:10:40] And you can listen to that by signing up to supporters on
[2:10:43] Patreon, as mentioned at the top of the show.
[2:10:46] Indeed. You can also listen to one of
[2:10:48] our other great podcasts, The Watch List, while you're at it,
[2:10:51] so no reason not to support if you could.
[2:10:53] We were very much appreciated. period.com/all the Right Movies.
[2:10:57] Definitely would. Thank you so much guys.
[2:10:59] That's where you'll find our entire podcast archive,
[2:11:01] everything we've ever created, which is a hell of a.
[2:11:04] Lot there's a. Lot.
[2:11:06] And if you enjoy what we do, please take 30 seconds out of
[2:11:09] your time to give us a positive rating on whatever podcast
[2:11:12] platform that you listen to us on.
[2:11:14] Apple Podcast, Spotify Pod, Jaser.
[2:11:16] Doesn't matter where, just a quick tap.
[2:11:18] Everyone's happy. Yes, it really, really helps us
[2:11:20] guys if you can. Just do it.
[2:11:21] Yeah, really do that. So.
[2:11:22] Thank you so much. In between all of our podcasts,
[2:11:25] we are active on social media every day on X we're at AT Right
[2:11:29] Movies where our making our movie threads are absolute gold.
[2:11:33] Just like our podcast, they tell the behind the scenes story from
[2:11:36] classic and hit films. And just like our podcasts, all
[2:11:39] the stories we tell come from cast and crew or verified by at
[2:11:42] least three sources. So that's incredible movie make
[2:11:45] and insight. Give them a read if you don't
[2:11:47] already. Yes.
[2:11:48] Yes, fantastic stuff. Our threads are also on Threads
[2:11:51] and Blue Sky. You can also find us on
[2:11:53] Instagram, Tiktok, we have a Facebook group or on YouTube as
[2:11:56] well. And our website is all the right
[2:11:58] movies.com. So it is.
[2:12:01] There's no escape on us. There's not.
[2:12:02] Absolutely not. And that is a wrap, everyone.
[2:12:05] Thanks for joining us on the ROAD Edition.
[2:12:07] We're glad it's you. Thanks very much for listening
[2:12:10] guys. Take care out there.
[2:12:12] Thank you listening everyone. Come back in two weeks for the
[2:12:14] Last of the Mohicans. Thanks everyone.
[2:12:17] Thanks guys. I'm going to say this only once.
[2:12:40] I would like a boiled egg and I want it running.

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