# Arrival (2016) | Ep. 51 - Part 1

An episode of [All The Right Movies](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1471502633), 17 Jan 2025, 1 h 05 min.

Audio: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/APO5525301324.mp3

Most alien-invasion films reach for the missiles. This one reaches for a linguist and a whiteboard, and it's all the more gripping for it. John, Westy, and Matt begin the story. In Part 1 we cover the film's opening, director Denis Villeneuve, the cast, and the second act — including Amy Adams's extraordinary lead performance, the constructed alien writing system, and Villeneuve making translation feel like the highest-stakes thing on earth. The story doesn't unfold in order, but the show does. Part 2, covering the crew, the finale, reception, and the film's legacy, is available now. Episode sponsors: BetterHelp: For a 10% discount off your first month with BetterHelp, click here Connect with ATRM: To support what we do, access our archive and listen to exclusive episodes, become an ATRM patron: Listen on Patreon Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify Twitter/X: @ATRightMovies YouTube: Subscribe to our channel Instagram: @allthe_rightmovies Threads: @allthe_rightmovies Facebook: Join our movie group Bluesky: @alltherightmovies.com TikTok: @alltherightmovies Website: alltherightmovies.com

## Transcript

[0:04] All the movies. There are days that define your
[0:07] story beyond your life. I'm Colonel GT Webber, Army
[0:10] Intelligence. Pack your bags.
[0:12] Like the day they arrived. War objects have landed around
[0:16] the world. We need answers as soon as
[0:18] possible. Or we could be facing global
[0:20] war. Oh my God.
[0:31] I know why they're here. Arrival arrived in cinemas in
[0:37] 2016 and became one of the most acclaimed science fiction films
[0:40] of the century. The tale of a linguist tasked
[0:43] with facilitating first contact with an alien species, it set
[0:46] director Denis Villeneuve down the path to Hollywood stardom.
[0:49] My name is John. And with me our very own Abbott
[0:52] and Costello. That's Westie.
[0:55] If you could see your whole life from start to finish, would you
[0:58] change things? And Matt?
[1:00] Coffee with some aliens. It's the story of your life and
[1:04] you're at the beginning and the end with ATRM, Amy Adams, and
[1:07] the aliens. Now that's a proper
[1:10] introduction. Hello and welcome to All the
[1:33] Right Movies in Non 0 Sum Game, The Cornerstone of Civilization
[1:38] and a podcast on classic and hit films.
[1:40] That's us curious. This episode, it's a bit of a
[1:43] highbrow number, isn't it? Thank God.
[1:47] Right up Westie St. It's Amy Adams and all the right
[1:51] movies together at last as we talk the 21st century science
[1:55] fiction classic that is Denny Veal Nerves Arrival.
[1:58] Lovely. Before we get the universal
[2:01] translators out though, should we mention ATRM patron?
[2:04] We really should. Yep.
[2:05] Well, if you're a regular listener to our ATRM Classic
[2:08] podcast, you can now support what we do by becoming an ATRM
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[2:22] And get the chance to vote to decide a future episodes and the
[2:26] chance to ask questions that will answer on the show as well
[2:29] as an invite to the ATRM community.
[2:32] There's always some shots going on in there, some nice folk in
[2:34] there as well, right? Yes, lovely there is.
[2:36] And I mean, there's a load of podcast content in there now.
[2:39] Too much, really. Yeah, we're still generous.
[2:41] Yeah, it's going to take you a while to get through it, so you
[2:42] might as well start now. Yeah, exactly.
[2:45] So to find out more, visit patreon.com/all the Right Movies
[2:49] or subscribe directly on Apple Podcasts or Spotify now.
[2:53] Yeah, so much stuff in there. It's not a weapon, it's a gift.
[2:56] It is, it really is something for everybody, absolutely.
[2:59] Back to today, though, and it's a rival.
[3:02] So why are we talking about this one, Matt?
[3:05] I love it when we look at more contemporary films, I think, and
[3:09] this one is contemporary film that comes with a big, big
[3:13] reputation. It means a lot to people.
[3:15] People take a lot from it. It's one of those rare films
[3:17] that does get people talking for a long time after it.
[3:20] Yeah. I think it's a combination of
[3:22] something that's huge in scale, but then it's almost intimate in
[3:25] what it does want to talk about. It takes big swings in terms of
[3:28] the subject matter. Vaginal nerve, massive name.
[3:31] Now, we've never talked about Amy Adams either.
[3:33] Just one of the best actresses of a so lotteries and talk about
[3:37] this one. Absolutely.
[3:39] I mean, my first introduction to Arrival was Story of Your Life
[3:42] by Ted Chang. The short story.
[3:46] Yeah. And as a piece of writing, it is
[3:48] really good. Very much about language to lend
[3:51] itself more to the written word than the cinema, probably.
[3:53] So when I heard it was being adapted for a film, I was pretty
[3:55] surprised. And then when I heard it was
[3:57] being directed by the guy who made Sicario and Prisoners, I
[4:00] couldn't believe it. But like, cerebral science
[4:02] fiction about first contact by a director with reputation for,
[4:06] like, grounded, realistic storytelling.
[4:08] It was like Christmas to me. And we'll talk about all that,
[4:12] that transition from page to screen, how it works or how it
[4:15] doesn't. In some ways, maybe, Yeah.
[4:17] It is our first time with Amy Adams, one of the most highly
[4:19] thought of actresses out there. So we're looking forward to
[4:21] talking about her. Yes.
[4:22] And in terms of creativity, there's so much to get into.
[4:25] Music, cinematography, concept design, visual effects,
[4:28] production design, loads of creative talent on the film,
[4:31] some great behind the scenes stories.
[4:33] So let's get into it. Absolutely.
[4:36] And Westie, it took me years to figure out what you were talking
[4:39] about, and then when I did, it changed my life.
[4:42] So you're the guy I talk arrival with, aren't you?
[4:45] No, never a true word spoken. I mean I find it really hard to
[4:48] rate this and what I'm going Oh no sorry, that's the end.
[4:51] I'm getting confused. Easily done.
[4:54] I mean, it's wonderful. It's a film about aliens, which
[4:57] ultimately is about humanity and about humans and about where we
[5:00] act and what's important. And it, it does take an outside
[5:02] force to make us realize how important things really are.
[5:05] And it's beautifully melancholic.
[5:06] It's got a really strong message.
[5:08] It's got a wonderful circular feel to the whole narrative and
[5:10] the whole film visually as well as emotionally.
[5:14] It kind of comes all around full circle.
[5:16] It's very subtle filming, and it's very much, you know, pay
[5:19] attention or you're just going to lose track.
[5:20] And there's a lot to celebrate. It's beautiful visual
[5:23] storytelling. It's really, really confident.
[5:25] It's really, really strong. And like Matt said, it does stay
[5:28] with you for a very long time once you've seen it.
[5:30] So yeah, I'm very excited to talk about this one.
[5:32] So Arrival was produced by a Film Nation Entertainment.
[5:35] Lava Bear Film was on 21 Lapse Entertainment, distributed by
[5:38] Paramount Pictures and released on November the 11th, 2016.
[5:42] Filmed on location mainly in and around Montreal, QC and Canada.
[5:46] The film was directed by Denis Veal Nerve, written by Eric
[5:49] Heiser, based on Ted Shang's novella Story of Your Life, and
[5:52] stars Amy Adams as Louise Banks, Jeremy Renard as Ian Donnelly
[5:56] and Forest Whitaker as Colonel GT Webber.
[6:00] Our first time was all three and Veal Nerve I believe.
[6:02] Yes, yes indeed. Let's get ourselves to Montana
[6:05] then, should we? Yes, let's do it.
[6:08] Right then, we're meeting Doctor Louise Banks as we talked the
[6:10] beginning and the end and everything in between of
[6:14] arrival. Take off in 5.
[6:47] Arrival doesn't hang about in getting things moving, and we're
[6:50] with Louise as she first sets eyes on the mysterious
[6:52] spacecraft and their inhabitants.
[6:54] In the first act, we'll talk about all of that, but before we
[6:57] do, we're looking at how the Doc gets involved.
[7:01] We are. So, Byron, opening montage or a
[7:04] closing montage maybe? We meet Louise and her tragic
[7:07] daughter Hannah before it all kicks off, 12 alien ships turn
[7:11] around the globe and linguist Louise is recruited by the US
[7:14] military to broker first contact with the seven limbed
[7:16] extraterrestrials known as heptopods.
[7:19] Yes, some fairly significant events to start us off then.
[7:22] Matt, how was the opening for you?
[7:25] The open montage is very, very Terrence Malik.
[7:27] Isn't it very reminiscent a tree of life holding the baby's hand?
[7:31] That took us the position of childhood games with near to
[7:35] that huge lake in the background.
[7:37] And then Louise's opening dialogue.
[7:39] It's already established in what a lot of the themes are going to
[7:41] be here. Memory time, what she thinks is
[7:44] the beginning of Honda's story, sometimes going to be turned on
[7:46] its head by the end. But the interesting thing for me
[7:48] is the fact that all of this imagery on the face of it is
[7:51] happy newborn baby playing games in the garden, but the music is
[7:54] so melancholy over the top of it, so you know something's not
[7:58] right. You get those little glimpses of
[7:59] Louise where she looks very lost in thought.
[8:01] She looks very melancholic. And that's before you even save
[8:05] at the hospital when she says goodbye to Hannah.
[8:06] And it kind of fits together. And I think this part of Adam's
[8:10] performance plays really differently on repeat viewings.
[8:13] It's a really effective contrast.
[8:14] It's a lot like the beginning of Up, except 1000 times more
[8:17] upsetting. Yeah, agreed.
[8:20] Yeah, I love the opening shot of Louise's huge screen window.
[8:24] Yeah, I love the font they use for the title as well.
[8:26] It's like some modified version of Gotham or something.
[8:28] It looks really good. Yeah, it's great.
[8:30] But I think one of the themes of the film is context and how it
[8:33] can change our perception of something, and the opening
[8:36] montage hits very differently on rewatches than it does on the
[8:39] 1st watch as we understand the cutaway sequences on flashbacks
[8:42] to flash forwards. And Louise playing with Hannah
[8:44] is a lot more poignant, I think, second time round as well.
[8:47] And I love the transition from the flash forward into the
[8:50] present day. Louise's voice over says, like,
[8:53] they are days to define your story beyond your life, like the
[8:56] day they arrived and boom, put it into the narrative.
[8:59] Brilliant. Yeah.
[9:00] And once we're into the story, I'm hooked instantly.
[9:03] Big fan of the scenes of Louisa University, filmed at the
[9:05] University Of Montreal. I like how hardly anyone turns
[9:08] up for a lecture and then that students just like, can you put
[9:10] the news on so we know something is up?
[9:12] Yeah. And then Louise stands right in
[9:14] front of the TV so nobody else can see.
[9:17] I'll be furious there's aliens on there.
[9:19] Especially the one who asked as well.
[9:22] Great opening though, sets the like earnest tone the film has.
[9:24] Sets the visual tone of beautifully composed shots.
[9:27] It's a fantastic first few minutes.
[9:29] Yeah. And then after that, she gets a
[9:31] visit from Webber, who comes into her office and it's, it's
[9:35] very formal. And that guy standing shuts the
[9:37] doors if he's not listening to anything.
[9:39] I love that guy in the background.
[9:40] He's like, nobody's coming in, nobody's going out.
[9:41] This is, like, pretty scary. And then whether just just
[9:45] pushes this small recorder over and says, I've got something for
[9:47] you to translate. Yeah.
[9:49] And she's like, well, OK, And then plays it.
[9:51] And you just think, what on earth am I supposed to do with
[9:54] this? He's like, can you hear any
[9:59] words? Definitely not you miss.
[10:02] Translate this Are you having a laugh?
[10:04] Who do you think I am? Unbelievable.
[10:06] But you can see from Adam's performance that she's just
[10:08] incredibly intrigued at this moment.
[10:11] Like she wants to be involved. She's like, is that?
[10:13] That's great. Yeah.
[10:14] And he's like, yes, it is. And she wants to be involved.
[10:16] She's like, well, I need to be there.
[10:17] And it's just a really, really great setup for the character.
[10:20] And then she just plays the audience so well because you
[10:23] just wanted to have this knowledge.
[10:25] You wanted to have this power, and you wanted to have this real
[10:27] gravitas over who's talking to her.
[10:29] And she turns around and she says, you know, you're going to
[10:31] see the other guy. We'll ask him what the Sanskrit
[10:33] word for war is. Yeah, it's really good.
[10:35] And then we find out later and he says he translated as an
[10:37] argument when really it is a desire for more cows.
[10:41] So it comes back and shows that she really knows what she's
[10:43] talking about. And this sets up her character
[10:45] really well for the intelligence and the integrity and the the
[10:48] real fire that she's got to find out what's going on.
[10:51] Oh yeah, if I have any linguist, I'm going to Louise Banks.
[10:54] Absolutely. And many other things, yeah,
[10:56] for. Numerous reasons, and really.
[10:59] Pint the milk. But I love all the, like,
[11:03] deliberate, slow tracking shots. There's a great one when Louise
[11:05] walks to a classroom, and they ended up walking across the
[11:07] parking lot when the cars are, like, crashing into each other.
[11:09] Yeah. And then the opening shot to
[11:11] this scene that kind of creeps around the corner into our
[11:13] office. Yeah, really good.
[11:14] It creates this, like, feeling of calm and serenity that's kind
[11:18] of personified by Louise. And then the heptopods when they
[11:20] turn up as well. Yeah, it's all circular.
[11:22] I mean, from where she's walking through the hospital and she's
[11:24] walking around the corner, she's coming around corners and even
[11:27] the lecture hall that she's in kind of mirrors the heptopod
[11:29] shit. It's got a circular back and
[11:31] then a flat front, so everything kind of works towards where
[11:33] we're going. Absolutely.
[11:35] But the meeting with Webber, that's simplified from what's in
[11:38] the original short story. In the book, Ian's part of this
[11:40] meeting as well. And here Louise says she needs
[11:43] to see the heptapots in person. But in the book she explains
[11:47] it's because she doesn't know if make and sounds human is can't
[11:50] hear. And she says the need to do a
[11:51] spectrograph. Right.
[11:53] Yeah, a constant difference between the book and the film is
[11:56] that the book is more scientific.
[11:58] I mean, the film's pretty scientific as well, but we'll
[12:00] have changed the balance to learn more towards artistic in
[12:03] the film and in the film, obviously, Louise meets Ian for
[12:06] the first time on the helicopter on the way to Montana, where he
[12:09] rubbishes that book instantly. Actually, science is a confront
[12:12] of civilization. That's the first thing he says
[12:15] to us. Unbelievable.
[12:16] It's a great move. Now, though.
[12:17] I mean, if we're going to go into that scene, it's just
[12:19] wonderful because she believes in language and he believes in
[12:21] science. She's trying to communicate and
[12:23] he can't hear until she uses science to communicate with them
[12:26] by putting the headphones on and using the technology.
[12:28] So it's like the language and the science coming together so
[12:30] they can communicate. Nice, yeah.
[12:31] Wonderful stuff. It's all there.
[12:33] Colonel Weber is played by Forest Whitaker, of course, one
[12:35] of the most acclaimed as of his generation, but very much a
[12:38] supporting role here. Yeah.
[12:39] What do we think of him in the film?
[12:41] I just don't know if there's a more intense actor than Forest
[12:44] Whitaker. Like, every.
[12:45] All I see him in, he just seems like he's going to explode with
[12:47] tension or anger. What I like about Weber, though,
[12:50] is he's not stupid or stubborn. He's got his job to do, and
[12:53] he'll do it no matter what. But he will also listen to
[12:55] Louise, and he trusts and he buys us sometime later on.
[12:58] So he does. Yeah.
[12:59] I really like Whitaker in this. He looks for reason, doesn't he?
[13:01] And everything he. Does.
[13:02] Yeah, he does. Yeah.
[13:03] And Amy Adams called Forest Whitaker a beautiful soul.
[13:07] And she said that after she filmed the first scene with him,
[13:08] she broke down in TS. Wow.
[13:10] Wow. And apparently, Bradford Young,
[13:12] the DP, he did the same thing. Yeah.
[13:13] What scene was that? Everyone blubbing on set?
[13:16] Yeah. Don't remember that scene.
[13:17] Then you said he wanted somebody who could bring a lot of
[13:19] gravitas to Weber without having much to work with.
[13:22] And Forest Whitaker was the only person he ever wanted to play
[13:25] him. He said he's a master, one of
[13:26] the best actors living today. And I kind of disagree.
[13:29] Yeah. Yeah, I think he absolutely.
[13:31] Is. Yeah, definitely.
[13:32] That is the opening. Beautiful shots, beautiful
[13:35] music, beautiful souls. Arrival has arrived.
[13:38] Time for the aliens too as well I think.
[13:40] Let's do it. Louise Indian get to Montana,
[13:45] one side of 12 around the world where the alien ships have
[13:48] appeared and it's straight to business.
[13:50] After getting a good look at the craft we head inside with the
[13:53] doctors. The first session is strange in
[13:55] many ways and the second is where they get to grips with the
[13:57] aliens. Ian later names them Abbott and
[13:59] Costello and Louise makes a contact breakthrough.
[14:02] So how do you find things in the House of the Heptapods, Wesley?
[14:07] I think the initial introduction to them is absolutely
[14:10] terrifying. Just the pace in which they're
[14:12] taking through the medical, the pace in which they're taking to
[14:14] the ship and they've got to get straight on.
[14:16] Then there's no real time for us to adapt and there's no real
[14:18] time for them to adapt. And I think it's wonderful from
[14:21] Bradford Young here and from feeling you've had the Do not
[14:23] rack focus to the background. Everything is focused on Louise
[14:26] and Ian, everything is focused on the foreground and this whole
[14:29] film is shot wide open, so we've got very blurred backgrounds.
[14:32] But this whole moment when the gravity shifts and up becomes
[14:36] forward, down becomes backwards and it's just brilliant because
[14:40] then it becomes circular. Fantastic.
[14:43] Louise needs that push from Webber, which gets her own on
[14:46] board and then she gets used to what's going on and Ian has to
[14:49] fend for himself, which again reflects the character.
[14:51] And I think what's lovely in this, I don't know if this is
[14:53] intentional, but I've got loads of these little tiny Wesley Clip
[14:56] theories going through, but Ian is literally carrying a torch
[14:59] for Louise. In more ways than one.
[15:03] He's literally carrying her torch because she can't do it by
[15:05] herself, and I think that's really wonderful.
[15:07] There's a real naturalistic look to the whole thing.
[15:10] There's a strong alien vibe here.
[15:12] I think the way the faces are lit in the suits and they're
[15:14] just climbing through and it's got that darkness and that the
[15:16] boarding to the score, which we'll get into.
[15:18] Very naturalistic. Look at the heptopods as well.
[15:20] When they kind of appear, they resemble this like a nature,
[15:24] like trees, and they've got, they're just kind of in their
[15:27] own atmosphere. Everything's got this real
[15:28] cinematic vibe to it and it feels really big.
[15:31] But at the same time, like Matt said, feels really intricate and
[15:33] really simple. And you just really want to
[15:35] continue with this story. And you are.
[15:36] If you're not bought in by this point, just turn it off.
[15:38] Yeah, this is it. Now we are.
[15:40] We are in. Yeah, well, I said before, the
[15:42] film's got me hooked from the opening with the beauty of it
[15:44] and the premise, obviously, But once we get in there with the
[15:47] aliens, it has to deliver, and it absolutely does.
[15:50] It does, yeah. The first time we see the ship,
[15:52] that wide shot from the helicopter, that is one of the
[15:55] most stunning shots you could ever see anywhere.
[15:58] That's how you use CG as well. If you're going to use CGI,
[16:00] that's how you use it. It looks fantastic.
[16:03] Is that real? Yeah, yeah.
[16:05] The image of the ship among the misty clouds.
[16:06] It's like something from the 10 Commandments.
[16:08] Win what? Charles, listen to Turn Up
[16:10] Curious. Imagine how he's called dead
[16:13] hands there. Right on a white board instead
[16:16] of a stone tablet. And the sound mix of the soft,
[16:21] like eerie music in the really busy helicopter sound, Yeah,
[16:24] it's all like, mesmerizing. I feel like Mowgli when car gets
[16:27] all of them, like eyes spinning around in my head and I'm going
[16:31] to stick my neck out and say I think the Nevia nerve might like
[16:34] Stanley Kubrick a bit. Do you reckon?
[16:36] Or just a bit. There's a shot from the base of
[16:37] the ship looking right up the craft, identical to the famous
[16:40] Monolith shot in 2001. Ian would just handle on the
[16:43] whole. Yeah, similar to Hayward doing
[16:45] the same thing with the Monolith.
[16:46] And once the end of the ship, there's those one point
[16:48] perspective shots looking up the corridor.
[16:50] Yeah. Kubrick, obviously, Yeah.
[16:52] But I mean, hey, you're going to borrow shots.
[16:54] You might as well borrow them from 2001.
[16:55] Yeah, Brown from the best. Exactly.
[16:57] I mean, I was going to mention this later, but when Louise is
[16:59] in there by herself model, it's on its side.
[17:01] So again, it shows this duality of this circular motion.
[17:04] So it's it's really brilliant. I love all the gravity weirdness
[17:08] that's not in the book, but it's a great idea, different medium,
[17:11] and it's a really cinematic way to enter the kind of heptopods
[17:14] world. Yeah.
[17:15] Not sure what either you would make of that, but I mean, I
[17:17] think it's great. Yeah, he'd love it.
[17:21] And first meeting the heptapods. How good's that shot when the
[17:23] end of the chamber and from our point of view, they're like
[17:25] walking on the ceiling. Oh, I love it.
[17:28] Yeah. It's great.
[17:29] At that moment, I always feel that kind of mix of excitement
[17:31] and fear I think you would feel if you were in that situation.
[17:34] Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
[17:35] Great film making top to bottom for.
[17:37] Me it is. Yeah.
[17:37] Visually amazing. The production designer was
[17:40] Patrice Fermat, and he'd already worked with Veal Nerve on
[17:43] Prisoners Enemy and Sagario, and Veal Nerve told him he wanted
[17:47] the inside of the Heptapod ship to be created practically.
[17:50] So there was a real 150 foot long corridor created.
[17:54] That's the one that takes us into the chamber.
[17:56] And the chamber was created as a real room coming off the
[17:58] corridor with a huge screen. And the whole thing was built 50
[18:01] foot off the ground. So cast and crew had to use the
[18:04] scissor lift to get into the set, just like we see the
[18:06] characters doing in the film. Blame me.
[18:09] Wow, yeah. I don't think the gravity change
[18:11] direction wants the way inside, no.
[18:12] But shame, who knows? Yeah.
[18:14] I mean, I wasn't there. I love that, though.
[18:17] Building the set for real must help the actors get into the
[18:20] zone, surely? Yeah.
[18:21] Yeah, yeah. And in the book, the heptapods
[18:23] don't physically come to Earth. There are ships that arrive all
[18:26] over the planet, which are described as looking glasses.
[18:29] And on these screens, the humans can see the heptapods about
[18:31] their own ships, therefore not in the same location.
[18:35] Right. Yeah, it's like a Microsoft
[18:37] team. It's called basically, and in
[18:40] the book they have to display their language on their own
[18:42] little screens rather than shooting out the ink circles.
[18:45] But all that stuff changed much more cinematically and for the
[18:48] best, surely. Oh, yeah, definitely, yeah.
[18:50] When they designed the inside of the ship, Patrice Vermeet said
[18:53] they took inspiration from an American artist called James
[18:55] Turrell. Nice.
[18:57] He's part of the light and space movement and is known for making
[18:59] spaces where he uses light installations to change our
[19:02] perceptions of depth and scale. But Met said he and Phil knew.
[19:05] Came across Turrell when they were making Sicario and said to
[19:08] each other there. Then when we do a sci-fi movie,
[19:10] we'll be looking at this guy's work again.
[19:13] And the dead and the dead. Yeah, James Turrell still is
[19:16] very minimalist and often uses big light filled screen.
[19:19] So when you see it, the influence on arrival is totally
[19:21] obvious, right? And the idea of a screen, it
[19:24] does seem to follow the ways through the film, doesn't it?
[19:26] Yeah, that opening shot that you said, John, I mean, that recurs
[19:28] as well, that it does reflect when she's standing in front of
[19:31] the screen with the heptopods there and the trees kind of
[19:33] mirror that and the heptopods mirror nature and who she is.
[19:36] And it's just that recurrence scene that keeps coming back and
[19:38] back, which I think is fantastic.
[19:39] Big window at home, Massive whiteboard in that class about
[19:42] TV's massive as well. Yeah, huge.
[19:45] And the ships all float 28 feet above the ground, so never
[19:48] actually land on Earth. This isn't the case in the book
[19:51] and Vermette said that was a very deliberate choice.
[19:53] That ID is the heptapods have travelled thousands of light
[19:56] years to get here, but they want humans to make the final move in
[19:59] terms of contact. Yeah, nice touch.
[20:01] I saw an interview with Eric Heiser, the screenwriter, and he
[20:04] said that in the script there was a line at one point where
[20:06] Ian says they came all this way, why can't they go into the 20
[20:09] feet? Yeah, but he said it was taken
[20:11] out because it sounded like Ian was having a go at the
[20:13] Heptapods. Lazy.
[20:15] Lazy. Yeah, the idea of the aliens
[20:18] having 7 limbs and being called hepnopods is taken from the
[20:21] book, but there are some differences.
[20:23] The book describes the hepnopods as having a body like a barrel
[20:26] and says they have 7 lidless eyes.
[20:29] They were designed for the film by an artist called Carlos
[20:31] Fiante, who then you've hired as he loved the work on Prometheus.
[20:35] OK, Yeah, he did some of the design work on that.
[20:37] Yeah. And the work on the Hepnopod
[20:39] design for months apparently took inspiration from Wales and
[20:41] octopuses. And Carlos Wendy did hundreds of
[20:44] concepts before we live. Was happy with it.
[20:46] I love them, I think they look brilliant.
[20:48] They do look great. Yeah.
[20:49] There's like knuckles almost to them.
[20:51] It does reminds me of Knuckles. Yeah, like trees and like a
[20:53] third eye in there somewhere. And it's got all this kind of
[20:56] deep, I mean, but I think it's wonderful that you don't
[20:58] necessarily see them in all of the glory fully lit.
[21:00] I think it's wonderful. Do you also think they look a
[21:03] bit like the aliens off The Simpsons Come and call us?
[21:08] Imagine those guys coming out from the Mist.
[21:10] You shine a light on them. Probably looks like.
[21:12] They look like. But I mean, how many science
[21:14] fiction films have you seen, even like big budget ones?
[21:17] And when the aliens show up, it's like, yeah, nice, but kind
[21:20] of seen that before. The Hector part are unique to me
[21:22] and that's so important to give the film a really strong
[21:24] identity. Yeah.
[21:26] Yeah, I want to talk about the next time Louise and Ian go up
[21:29] after that initial introduction, because I love any movie scene
[21:32] that goes on to become a famous meme, and this one definitely
[21:35] has with. Louise in the white board.
[21:37] It really has. The amount of times you see this
[21:38] on social media now was something written across the top
[21:40] of it. But it does make me laugh a
[21:42] little bit because we've established Louise as the top
[21:44] linguist in the world, and her plan now is to take a
[21:47] whiteboard, write human on it in massive letters and then just
[21:50] pointed herself for a bit. Like, to be fair, I could have
[21:53] come up with that idea. Yeah.
[21:55] It's like when you go abroad, you try and order something off
[21:57] the menu and you just say it really loudly and slowly.
[22:00] That's the way to understand that.
[22:02] Just pointed the picture, yeah. Just find the picture.
[22:04] Omelet. Omelet.
[22:06] Yeah. But I think there is an
[22:07] underlying serious point to this, which is that it must be
[22:10] so incredibly frustrating because how do you even start
[22:12] this task? How do you even begin the
[22:14] communication, you know, to be serious about it?
[22:17] Yeah. Yes.
[22:18] Louise is this incredible English.
[22:19] So if she's finding it this difficult to start the
[22:22] conversation, that just reiterates what a massive task
[22:25] she has in her hands here and humanity in general.
[22:28] Yeah, I mean, you're right, Mark.
[22:29] The equipment that humans have is a bit lo fi.
[22:31] I'd be embarrassed boarding an alien spaceship with a Canary in
[22:34] a cage came to the wrong plan. Yeah, but when Louise breaks the
[22:38] barrier and does make contact, it is a great moment when we
[22:41] first see the heptopods writing and that inky logogram circle,
[22:44] it's just a great image and there's some great visual
[22:46] storytelling. The point of view shot from
[22:48] Louise as she looks up at the logogram so we'll see it from
[22:50] below, makes me feel like I'm right there every time I see it.
[22:53] And there's a side on kind of wide shot where Louise is like
[22:56] dwarfed by the screen of the heptopods.
[22:58] I feel kind of overawed by it. I actually think it's quite
[23:00] moving when the first, like, make contact with each other.
[23:03] And I like having to say the logogram for the first time.
[23:06] Louise laughs. She changed to Ian.
[23:08] He's smiling as well. Then cut the Weber furious
[23:11] muscle. Scowl on his face and get on
[23:12] with it. That's why he's there surely.
[23:16] But I mean I do like Ian, but why is he in there?
[23:19] Good point. After giving you the big licks
[23:21] in the helicopter pulling Louise's book apart.
[23:23] He doesn't do anything in these sessions.
[23:25] It's always just walk calls them.
[23:29] Walks, Ian. Walks.
[23:30] Yeah, he does a bit of a walk. The pods have two different
[23:33] languages, and that's from the book.
[23:35] The spoken one is Heptapod A and the written one is Heptapod B.
[23:39] The book describes Heptapod B as being like a geometric pattern,
[23:42] like a lattice. The idea of it being the
[23:44] circular logogram we see in the film was created by Eric Heiser
[23:47] when he wrote the screenplay. Yes, a Messiah graphic like they
[23:50] say in the film have the pod B. So like it gives meaning but
[23:53] doesn't represent sound with our language does.
[23:56] And I saw on the video with Heist around when he said that
[23:58] he was struggling to describe what the logogram should look
[24:00] like in the script without becoming like a novel and really
[24:02] long. And his wife said to him, why
[24:04] don't you just draw it in the script?
[24:06] So that's what he did, right. So the script has logograms
[24:08] drawn into it. Oh, wow.
[24:09] OK, great. Yeah, must be a right pain in
[24:11] the ass to explore that as APDF. I thought he just kind of put
[24:15] his coffee on the page and then lifted it up and just how that
[24:18] will do. Well, it looks like that.
[24:20] As well, Yeah. Well, talking of the final logo
[24:22] gram design, of it being the inky circles, we see, they were
[24:26] done by Martine Bertrand and she's an artist and the wife of
[24:29] Patrice Fermat, the production designer.
[24:30] We've just mentioned Family Affair, Family Fendi.
[24:33] And she said that they took inspiration from squids firing
[24:36] and, as Wesley's just suggested, the kind of rings that coffee
[24:39] cups leave on the table. Nice.
[24:41] Yeah, and the child wrong as it was seen in the film The Hannah
[24:43] Does of Louise Ian in The Heptopods.
[24:45] They were done by Martine Bertrand's son.
[24:48] Oh wow. All right.
[24:49] Huge family affair. Not very flowering to Ian other
[24:52] huge orange face looks like David Dickens he.
[24:57] Might be a frank crosses like How many fingers does Mrs. Santa
[25:00] Claus have here? It's crap.
[25:01] I don't want it on the wall. Stephen Wolfram and Christopher
[25:07] Wolfram were a father and son team who were experts in
[25:09] theoretical physics, and they were scientific consultants on
[25:12] arrival. I tell you what, a nice weekend
[25:14] over there's will be a fucking laughing.
[25:16] Christmas the Wolf Rooms. I know, right?
[25:19] They'll be absolutely brilliant. Really funny.
[25:21] They created a logogram Bible for the film that had over 100
[25:24] words in Heptopod B and 70 of them are used in the movie.
[25:27] Yeah, they didn't go quite as far as creating a whole
[25:29] language, but I love it when directors involve experts like
[25:32] the Wolf Rooms to advise on the aspects.
[25:33] They're experts then, so it's all like really authentic.
[25:36] Yeah, makes a massive difference.
[25:37] Oh, it definitely does. It's around this time in the
[25:40] film as well, where Louise writes the big question on the
[25:42] whiteboard that Weber wants her to ask.
[25:44] What is your purpose on Earth? Amy Adams said that she had
[25:48] problems writing that on the board.
[25:49] This is really good. She had problems writing that on
[25:50] the board and looking away and talking at the same time.
[25:52] Midway through the first take, feeling you've shouted, cut it,
[25:56] Adams realized you'd written. What is your purpose on Earth?
[26:01] Should left that in the great linguist.
[26:05] Imagine if they just understood that straight away and it was
[26:07] the Tillam's over I. Like that scene, though, Eric
[26:12] Heiser, I said that originally written a lot of scenes where
[26:14] Louise teaches to have to pod basic English.
[26:16] But in the meeting, the studio told him that it was really
[26:18] boring. And Heiser, I got up and started
[26:20] demonstrating on a board in the room while language has to be
[26:23] told step by step. And they said, well, yeah, but
[26:25] what you're doing now is a far more interesting way of doing
[26:28] that than what you've written. So that's where that scene came
[26:30] from. We've got a lot of stuff there,
[26:32] and that's just the opening of the film.
[26:34] We've met all of our main characters, Human and Heptapod,
[26:37] and discussed some of the creative talents on the film.
[26:40] Should we get into the guy overseeing all of it?
[26:43] Absolutely do it. The director.
[26:50] The director of Arrival, as we mentioned, was Denis Villeneuve,
[26:54] a Canadian filmmaker whose directorial debut came with 1998
[26:58] drama August the 32nd on Earth, a rival with his eighth future
[27:02] film overall, his fourth in Hollywood after A Prisoners,
[27:05] Enemy and Sicario, and his first foray, but definitely not last,
[27:09] into science fiction. Yeah.
[27:11] Deney. Deney, Matt.
[27:13] How was his work on Arrival as director?
[27:16] Very reminiscent to me of Ridley Scott.
[27:18] I mean him in general, but particularly this one.
[27:20] Apart from Blade Runner, I think this is the most Ridley Scott
[27:23] esque film he's made because it's visually stunning.
[27:26] There's an epic skill where that feels this very second age to
[27:29] him. You get the sense that he isn't
[27:31] put off at all by how big this film gets or how big any of his
[27:34] films get really. And like Ridley Scott, what I
[27:37] think Feeling Love does really well is he makes his films a
[27:40] huge canvas for everyone to come and do their best works.
[27:43] Or the soundtrack, the effects of the cinematography, the
[27:46] acting feeling of has that ability to harness the best
[27:49] people around him and make everything coherent to what he
[27:52] wants. And he builds worlds really
[27:55] effectively, and he builds a human world and an alien world
[27:58] here. But as with Ridley Scott, I
[28:00] think that there's a bit of a weakness there as well.
[28:01] I don't think he's the most natural of storytellers.
[28:05] I think there's a couple of moments here that are a bit
[28:08] muddled in their execution through a bit contrived.
[28:11] Like the group of soldiers who go warg just to advance the
[28:14] narrow of the thing. That's a bit bumpy.
[28:16] And I think he always seems to have this removed to his films,
[28:19] which means it's hard to get a lot of emotion from him.
[28:21] I think he's quite a cold film maker, so.
[28:23] His work here encapsulates both his best qualities with his
[28:27] flaws at the same time as well. Yeah, I saw him An Idea within a
[28:30] Real Nerve, where we said that he's wanting to make a science
[28:32] fiction film since he was 10 years old.
[28:35] So bit of a surprise that he took eight films to get there.
[28:37] But he's made-up for it now, hasn't he?
[28:40] That's indeed, yeah. And I.
[28:41] Think one of his biggest strengths as a science fiction
[28:43] director is that background in drama.
[28:45] This feels like a fresh take on the 1st contract sub genre and
[28:49] as a piece of film making like art.
[28:51] A rival stands alone in that sub genre for me.
[28:54] I'm obviously a fan of your Nerve when you see behind the
[28:56] scenes footage from his films and arrivals no different.
[28:59] He seems to always have a very calm, serene set and that shows
[29:03] on the screen. It's directed this with a very
[29:05] light touch I think and I would say maybe because of that.
[29:08] I agree Matt. I'll find him slightly cold as a
[29:10] storyteller. He's not a filmmaker whose
[29:13] movies have a lot of heart or feeling for me sometimes, but I
[29:16] think he does have a lot of soul.
[29:18] Like James Brown. His films always have meaning
[29:21] and his mastery of the craft is just world class.
[29:24] And that said, I would say A Rival is definitely his warmest
[29:26] film. I think obviously the subject
[29:28] matter of the mother daughter Bond helps.
[29:30] Amy Adams helps, and we'll talk about her shortly.
[29:32] But I think in any science fiction film, that balance of
[29:34] the cold, hard science and the warmth of feeling is one that
[29:37] film makers don't always get right.
[29:39] But yeah, We Live nails it. And he's changed that balance
[29:42] from how he is in the book, so that's impressive.
[29:44] I think there's a piece of filmmaking, a rival is an art to
[29:47] say his best, and there's a piece of storytelling.
[29:49] It makes you think and it makes you feel, as the best science
[29:52] fiction usually does. Whether if you know his best
[29:55] film would be a pretty lively debate, I think.
[29:57] But this is definitely my favorite film is.
[30:00] Right. Yeah.
[30:00] I mean, it's definitely up there for me.
[30:02] You guys have said it all. I mean, he is more of a
[30:03] handshake than he is a cuddle, isn't he?
[30:05] Yeah. That's kind of how I feel when I
[30:08] see his films. It's he's very much like of that
[30:10] ilk. It feels like a slow game of
[30:12] chess and you know every move and you're watching it and
[30:14] you're never bored by the game. It's subtly beautiful and it's
[30:18] simplify and the complex. And he does that really well.
[30:20] He does that with the June novels.
[30:22] He makes June accessible. He made Blade Runner, you know,
[30:24] he made that sequel. I don't think anyone else could
[30:26] have, and he's not afraid of that pace.
[30:28] He's not afraid of that slow pace and taking his time and
[30:32] just fixating on certain things. He does have, I would say 70%
[30:37] more interest in the visuals than he does in anything else
[30:40] because the visuals will tell the story.
[30:41] I think his dialogue is always secondary, I think in all of his
[30:44] films and everything does have a science fiction feel to it.
[30:48] I know you said there, John, it took a made films to get there,
[30:50] but Enemy for me feels very science fiction.
[30:52] But for me it's just a joy to watch somebody who's just so in
[30:55] charge of the craft. And you can tell again that you
[30:58] guys have said that everybody on this film is in the same
[31:02] bracket. Nobody is is lower down.
[31:04] Cinematography is up there with score, with sound design, with
[31:07] production design, with art. Everything is just given the
[31:09] same amount of respect. I think that's what I get from a
[31:12] billionaire film is he respects every single element that goes
[31:15] into these films. And that's what makes his film
[31:18] so satisfying, so compelling and so perfectly judged.
[31:22] I think sometimes and really well polished.
[31:24] It might be cold, but I think it needs somebody who's had, who
[31:27] has that coldness to go, this is what I'm talking about, and take
[31:31] the kind of the emotion out of it a little bit.
[31:33] So he's getting the point across of like, look, live your best
[31:36] life. You haven't got a lot of time.
[31:37] This is what I'm trying to tell you.
[31:39] And he's like, your dad's sitting you down, not giving you
[31:41] a cuddle, but giving you a lecture.
[31:42] And I think that's what you need from this film.
[31:45] For the first person attached to a rival is directly I wasn't an
[31:47] evil live. Do you know who it was?
[31:49] Spielberg, George Lucas. No one anywhere near that well
[31:55] known. He was a filmmaker called Nick
[31:57] Matt here. Nick Metier, right you.
[31:59] Know on your name on me. He was known mostly for
[32:02] commercials at the time, apparently.
[32:03] And diddly. I directed a Netflix science
[32:05] fiction film called Spectral, which is about invisible beings
[32:08] killing people. OK, Although still quite a
[32:11] bizarre choice to get him in for a rival, I think.
[32:13] Yeah. But Dan Levine and Dan Corn from
[32:16] 21 Laps Entertainment. They wanted to adapt Story of
[32:18] Your Life and wanted Veena as director because they'd loved in
[32:22] Sandy's and had a meeting with him where he talked about wanted
[32:24] to make a science fiction film. So they sent him the novella and
[32:28] when he liked it, they sent Incendies to Ted Chang and said
[32:31] this is the guy we want to adopt your book.
[32:33] Yeah, Incendies is like a post war set film, but it's grounded,
[32:37] it's artistic and the story's also nonlinear.
[32:39] So they saw all that, I think. Yeah.
[32:42] Yeah, wonderful film, that brilliant.
[32:44] And Chang said that when he saw that, he realized the 21 laps
[32:46] wanted to do it properly, as he put it, and that was a key
[32:49] reason he saw the rights to them.
[32:50] I think if you're a sci-fi author and they send you
[32:52] incendies, you're going to be like, bloody hell, yeah.
[32:55] Yeah, that'll do. Eric Heiser was involved in the
[32:58] project before Vilniu had written drafts of the
[33:00] screenplay. He said the first time he met
[33:02] Vilni I was at a breakfast meeting where they talked about
[33:04] philosophy, science and religion for two hours.
[33:07] They did that every week and after about a month Vilni have
[33:10] called Heiser and said to him I've just signed on and direct
[33:13] the film and said now we are married.
[33:16] Yeah, I'm not sure that's how it works, didn't he, to be honest.
[33:20] It does, Pavilion think. Yeah, and we'll tell her a case
[33:24] of our story shortly. But Villeneuve said that when
[33:26] he's making a film, he's a screenwriter as best friend and
[33:28] also their worst enemy. Yeah, which I think is probably
[33:31] kind of what you need to be. I guess so, yeah.
[33:34] You don't take the easy way out. You want to explore all avenues,
[33:37] which I would imagine he's very thorough.
[33:38] Oh yeah, you can tell when you watch the film.
[33:40] Yeah, definitely. And we've talked about how
[33:42] Villeneuve brings crew members from his other films with him,
[33:45] and he did it on this as well. And he'd worked with the costume
[33:48] designer Renee April three times before as well, and he called
[33:51] her a master at creating Character 3 uniforms.
[33:54] And it was her idea to dress Louise more colourfully in the
[33:57] flash forward scenes and to reflect Louise and Ian's arcs by
[34:00] having them go from wearing civilian clothes to gradually
[34:03] wearing more militaristic outfits.
[34:05] Yeah. I always noticed those military
[34:07] boots Louise is wearing when she has the final conversation with
[34:10] Costello on the ship. Right.
[34:12] OK, pretty striking. That and she's barefoot when
[34:14] we're first here at the start, so quite a big difference.
[34:17] Yeah. The main thing for me in the
[34:18] costume design, though, is those orange hazmat suits.
[34:21] Yeah. Yeah.
[34:22] The contrast between the bright orange and the kind of black
[34:24] interiors on the alien ship, that works brilliantly.
[34:27] Yeah, it does really striking. And Villiers said that the
[34:29] hazmat suits were the only time he asked for something to be
[34:31] changed from how it is in reality.
[34:33] He said normally the face of the person in the suit is mostly
[34:35] covered, but he had the visor changed so we can see the actors
[34:38] full faces and expressions. I think you have to do that,
[34:41] surely? Didn't.
[34:42] Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
[34:43] I think the orange as well reflects the flash forwards
[34:45] where it's all warmer and they've got the glue of the
[34:47] ships and it's like kind of almost predicting the future
[34:49] that you have to wear this to get there.
[34:50] I think that's a really good touch.
[34:52] Yeah, definitely. And have has much suits ever
[34:54] looked this good in a film? Nah, never.
[34:56] No, maybe I'll break, but apart from that.
[34:58] Yeah, yellow in that one, though I'll.
[35:01] Be yellow. Yeah, I think so.
[35:02] I can't remember. It might just be math study, I
[35:04] don't know. Before signing off on the
[35:07] Neville Nerve, we have our first ATR M patron question.
[35:10] Okay, there are many benefits of being an ATR M patron, so you
[35:14] should definitely look into that if you've not yet.
[35:16] And one of the most popular is the chance to ask those
[35:18] questions that we will answer on the show.
[35:20] So we have the first of those now.
[35:22] And it is about Denivia nerve. Lovely, cool.
[35:24] So Matthew Williams is here. Hello, Matthew.
[35:27] Hello, Matthew. Hello, Matthew.
[35:28] And he has asked, where do we think Denivia Nerve sits as a
[35:31] director alongside all time great science fiction directors
[35:35] like Christopher Nolan, Ridley Scott, James Cameron and Stanley
[35:38] Kubrick? So what do you think, Matt?
[35:42] You know that bit in Family Guy when Peter Griffin's talking
[35:44] about The Godfather? Yes, it insists upon itself.
[35:47] Itself, Yeah. That's my general feeling
[35:49] towards feeling, if he insists upon himself.
[35:51] A little bit. But in terms of sci-fi, I mean
[35:54] he makes big sci-fi films. Obviously they get people's
[35:56] attention. My favorite veiler film is
[35:58] actually Takari. You're not one of his sci-fi
[36:00] ones. But when I put him up with the
[36:02] other sci-fi greats, this is really good.
[36:05] I agree with Wesley. No one else could have even
[36:07] attempted to make a Blade, run a sequel and then pull it off with
[36:10] as much a plum as he did there. But I mean the minority when I
[36:13] said don't particularly care for the Dune films that much.
[36:16] So I'm kind of split down the middle on that.
[36:18] Not yet. I wouldn't put them up there
[36:20] with the all time sci-fi great, but I think he's definitely got
[36:23] the potential to get there. Yeah, I mean, for me, when we're
[36:26] talking science fiction, The Navial Nerve is already in the
[36:29] list of great directors for me. I mean, Arrival, Blade Runner,
[36:33] 2049, the June films, I'm a fan of all of them.
[36:36] They all have brains. They all have a soul like James
[36:38] Brown. They're all films that people be
[36:40] watching, I think, after we're all gone.
[36:42] So already a bit of a science fiction legend alongside Ridley
[36:45] Scott, James Cameron and Christopher Nolan.
[36:47] For me, outside science fiction, he developed some great films,
[36:51] but not enough to put him into the top tier, I don't think.
[36:54] Not that he's not good enough. You just need more of them.
[36:56] Yeah. Yeah.
[36:56] I like seeing director Weston at some point.
[36:58] Oh, yeah. So science fiction legend.
[37:01] Absolutely. Like, all genre legend.
[37:03] Not yet, but I think he's got every chance.
[37:05] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Wesley, where is Veal Nerves
[37:08] place in the Hollywood Hall of Fame for you?
[37:10] I think what you have to do is look at the other directors who
[37:12] Matthews said here. There's Nolan, Scott, Cameron
[37:15] and Kubrick. I think Nolan and Cameron are
[37:16] right as they're inventors. They're world builders, veal
[37:19] nerves. Not in that camp.
[37:21] And I think he's he's far more subtle than Ridley Scott and
[37:24] Stanley Kubrick. I don't think he's got the
[37:25] bombast of them guys where you just kind of who directed this
[37:28] and the reason for that and what was said before.
[37:30] I think he's just more of a collaborator than he is a
[37:32] standalone director. I think he brings everybody in
[37:35] as a team. And for that reason, like you
[37:38] said there, John, people are going to be watching this long
[37:39] after we're gone. So I don't think we're ready for
[37:41] him yet, but the kids are going to love him.
[37:45] For his work on Arrivals and even though was nominated for
[37:47] Best Director at the Oscars and the film was nominated for Best
[37:50] Picture. Do you remember the winners that
[37:52] year? Matt well.
[37:54] Yeah, this was the infamous. Was it Moonlight?
[37:57] Was it La La Land? Which one won best play?
[37:58] It was that, Yeah. So.
[38:00] Damien Chazelle, best director for La La Land and Best Picture,
[38:04] went to La La Land. I mean Moonlight, that's a
[38:08] Villeneuve and a rival though. No mix UPS yet and some great
[38:11] work from him as director. Absolutely.
[38:13] Definitely some of his best the. Cast.
[38:20] Denis Villeneuve was starting to make a reputation for himself
[38:23] for the room to arrival and as such was able to bring in some
[38:26] big acting names. We talked a little about Forest
[38:29] Whitgar as Colonel Webber already, and above the talk in
[38:32] detail about the main supporting turnover, Jeremy Renner as Ian
[38:35] Donnelly. We should start with the lead
[38:37] though, probably. Yeah.
[38:39] So Amy Adams plays Doctor Louise Banks, a university lecturing
[38:43] linguist tasked with deciphering the alien language and
[38:45] communicating with the visitors. We follow her journey as she
[38:48] meets the Heptapods, does learn their language and as a result
[38:52] starts to see the future and manages to prevent all out
[38:54] global warfare in the process. Yeah, she's a busy lady, Westie.
[38:59] She is. How is Amy Adams as Louise?
[39:01] Does she even act in this? And I mean that in the nicest
[39:03] possible way. This feels like a linguist who's
[39:06] brought into a sci-fi film as opposed to an actress who has to
[39:09] be a linguist. It is that believable.
[39:11] And she's got such a range. She's wonderful in everything
[39:14] I've seen her in, most notably like American Hustle, Nocturnal
[39:17] Animals, just really, really wonderful actress.
[39:21] And like, film you've had, I don't think she's done enough to
[39:23] cement a place, really, because I think, again, she's just a
[39:26] very subtle actress. She'll just attack whatever the
[39:29] project is very, very focused. And she's absolutely perfect for
[39:33] this role. She owns the whole film.
[39:35] She carries the whole film. Brilliant.
[39:36] Yeah. I mean, I could just cry.
[39:38] It's certain. It's a bit.
[39:39] I could just celebrate. Certain.
[39:40] It's just just that emotional vulnerability where she looks so
[39:44] lost in certain places. But she has got this ambition,
[39:49] this real drive, this real energy she brings to this
[39:52] character and intelligence, which I think is so rare for
[39:55] female characters, especially in modern day cinema, to take the
[39:58] center stage and a commander film of this size, of this
[40:01] grandeur. And I have every male character
[40:03] asking her for the answers. And it's a joy to watch.
[40:06] And I don't really think there's anyone else who I would possibly
[40:09] put in this role that she totally makes the film what it
[40:12] is. Anyone else in this role, It's a
[40:13] different film completely. Only Amy Adams makes this film
[40:17] what it is. And that's the highest praise
[40:19] that I could possibly give her. She just totally makes the film
[40:21] and I wouldn't have anyone else in there.
[40:23] And she's fantastic. Yeah, I totally agree.
[40:26] Big fan of Amy Adams. Effortless elegance in every
[40:29] film that she's in. Yeah, she's like Julie Andrews.
[40:33] Not much singing, but always a touch of class.
[40:35] Yeah, she's not everything if you'll know before, but just a
[40:38] perfect casting choice, I think. You can tell the really trust
[40:41] each other in this film. Oh yeah, definitely.
[40:43] Really trust the direction. He really trusts her ability.
[40:45] Yeah, we said that there's some can sometimes feel a bit cold.
[40:48] That's not the case here. And a big part of that is down
[40:50] to Amy Adams. Yeah, she's boiling the kettle,
[40:52] no problem. Massively, yeah.
[40:54] Yeah, she's always likable on screen.
[40:56] Louise is likable and when you see behind the scenes footage, a
[40:58] lot of it seems to be Amy Adams just charming the entire crew
[41:02] and that comes across on the screen as well.
[41:04] She's so natural as Louise, it's almost like she's not acting
[41:07] like you see a Westie sometimes. Yeah, I know.
[41:09] And something else Feeling does deserve credit for, as he
[41:11] doesn't shy away from making films with women in the
[41:13] forefront of them. Emily Blunt's brilliant in
[41:16] Sicario and Amy Adams is brilliant here.
[41:18] Carries the whole thing without even blinking.
[41:21] It looks easy, she usually is great and this is up there with
[41:24] her. Best work for me.
[41:25] Yeah, there's a lovely interview with them where they just have
[41:27] meet up after 8 years of making arrival and she says you give us
[41:30] one of the best pieces of acting advice ever when she just she
[41:33] was a bit confused about the character and you have said
[41:35] she's yours, you wanna, you do whatever you want with her.
[41:37] She is your character. It's just like, wow, that is
[41:39] just so important that I can take that character, do what I
[41:41] want with it. And that's what I mean about
[41:43] that trust between the both of them.
[41:44] It really makes the film what it is.
[41:46] Completely grey. I mean absolute stand out
[41:48] actress while you go with her. I think it's just a sense of
[41:51] real intelligence, shippings to everything she's done.
[41:54] I don't think she's an actress who's ever done a role just
[41:56] because of the way that she looks.
[41:58] I think she takes interest in and challenging roles.
[42:01] So I think she works with big directors.
[42:02] She's very brave as an actress. I think she doesn't seem to take
[42:05] roles just for the money. Everything's new for her and a
[42:08] challenge, and Louise is the center of the film, and Adams
[42:12] just carries that effortlessly. The tension, the worry, the
[42:15] drama, the joy of discovery in this film, it's all just written
[42:19] across her face and she grounds everything.
[42:22] And yeah, to go back that point about being left and strong
[42:24] female leads, I like the fact it's never an issue.
[42:27] I remarked upon that, Louise, as a woman, but the authority here,
[42:30] it's just, yeah, not even an issue.
[42:32] Webber never mentioned it, and I think that's for the best.
[42:35] That would feel like a false note if someone tried to bring
[42:37] that up. So yeah, just impeccable work
[42:39] from her. Yeah, there was that massive
[42:42] moment where the last person was taken out in a in the medevac.
[42:46] It could be like, he's a blow, he couldn't handle it.
[42:48] We need a woman's touch. Then they could have played that
[42:50] in. But the definite it's just you
[42:51] don't know who was there before and she's doing a better job and
[42:54] it doesn't matter what sex she is like.
[42:55] That's just really, really important.
[42:57] Yeah, well, at this point, no episode.
[42:59] We normally like to tell the story of which actors were
[43:01] almost cast in certain roles. Jennifer, Jason Lee, Tom
[43:05] Selleck, all that kind of stuff. Selleck would have been great as
[43:08] Louise. Dave was in the Meadowbar,
[43:11] wasn't he? Yeah, well, we can't hear
[43:15] though, because literally every lead actor in the film was the
[43:17] person who we never originally wanted.
[43:19] Right, right. Brilliant.
[43:20] Yeah. So Tom Selleck didn't turn on
[43:22] the part of Ian, unfortunately. No, that's a shame.
[43:24] Ian Tash instead of Ian Walks. Yeah, because we love, said
[43:28] custom. Arrival was the easiest thing in
[43:30] my career because everybody fell in love for the screenplay.
[43:33] And as you've said, Adams was just the first choice to play
[43:35] Louise, but interestingly should actually been planning to take a
[43:38] break from Acton at the time because she wanted to spend time
[43:41] with a 5 year old daughter. But Adam said the rival script
[43:44] just grabbed it within the 1st 15 pages.
[43:46] She loved the fact that Louise was a mother, she was
[43:48] intelligent and she accepted the power within a couple of days
[43:51] and that breaks she wanted. To take she put that on hold
[43:53] till after this was done. Yeah, if you only have said she
[43:56] was the first and only choice. No other name was ever even
[43:59] mentioned because she accepted so quickly.
[44:01] Yeah. Perfect.
[44:02] Yeah, if you want someone who can carry the film, come across
[44:04] as likable, intelligent and warm, yeah, get Amy Adams.
[44:09] If you can, everything to prepare for the part of Louise.
[44:13] Adams learned some basic Mandarin and Louise had to speak
[44:16] it at the end of the film. And she also spent time with
[44:18] real life linguists called Jessica Coon from McGill
[44:21] University in Montreal. She helped Adams understand how
[44:24] a linguist would think and act in certain situations.
[44:27] And Adam said the two months she spent learning didn't even
[44:29] scratch the surface of what Jessica Coon, you amazing.
[44:32] Yeah, Jessica, I couldn't advise on changing some of Louise's
[44:35] dialogue as well and she was consultant and using the
[44:37] whiteboards to communicate with the heptapods like when she
[44:40] wipes human on it and how the logogram as well that was seen
[44:44] in the film. I mean again, we only want the
[44:46] authenticity, which I think is all for the best.
[44:48] Yeah, and he got it. For her performance as Louise,
[44:50] Amy Adams received no recognition of the Oscars.
[44:53] Not nominated. Surprised by that?
[44:54] Shower of shit. Very surprised.
[44:56] Yeah. Emma Stone won that year for La
[44:58] La Land. Yeah, yeah.
[44:59] Forest, though, sounds like we think Amy Adams is pretty great
[45:02] in leading her rival. Absolutely perfect. 100%, yeah.
[45:07] The main supporting character in her Rival is Dr. Ian Donnelly,
[45:10] played by Jeremy Renner, a theoretical physicist recruited
[45:14] to work with Louise. In communicating with the
[45:16] Heptapods, Ian Walks comes up with the names for Albert and
[45:19] Costello managers to work out The heptapod tapestry is one
[45:23] pattern of 12 and we find out is the father of Hannah.
[45:27] He thinks the cornerstone of civilization is science, Matt.
[45:30] And as far as the film's concerned, he's wrong.
[45:33] He is wrong. How's Jeremy Renner though as he
[45:35] in? Very dependable.
[45:38] Yeah, he's always very dependable.
[45:40] Jeremy Ren, I think he's just that archetypal support, an
[45:43] actor from Avengers, Mission Impossible, The Town, very
[45:46] different films, Tornley and in terms of who he's playing.
[45:48] But the common theme is this guy won't let you down.
[45:51] This guy will have your back and run.
[45:53] It exemplifies art really well. I think his character could be
[45:56] given a bit more depth. He is kind of generic, good,
[45:59] faithful man for most of it here.
[46:00] I don't know that's a decision taking because there's limited
[46:03] time to get in depth with these characters.
[46:05] But I think that Endon would hit harder if we got no Ian a bit
[46:09] more than we do. Particularly when you know,
[46:11] Rennet is capable of a lot more noughts than he gets given a,
[46:14] you know, if you think of him in The Hurt Locker, for example,
[46:16] he'd bring so much depth to that.
[46:17] Role. Yeah, he really does. 28 weeks
[46:19] later as well. 20 weeks later as well.
[46:21] Yeah, so much nuance. So he could be given a bit more
[46:23] to do, but it is a good performance.
[46:25] I think like, Adams completely sells the intelligence of his
[46:27] character. And I just like how he's really
[46:30] comfortable supporting Amy Adams in this.
[46:32] There's no ego here. There's no sexism.
[46:34] He's not trying to steal the limelight.
[46:36] He's not trying to make a big discovery like his big moment of
[46:39] shine. He knows the test story and he's
[46:42] fine with this place in it, and he does that well.
[46:45] Yeah, I mean, obviously Ian is a supporting character to the
[46:48] leader of Louise, and that's very much how he's written.
[46:50] He's like a foil for Louise. And that balance of warmth and
[46:53] science the film goes for Ian is the science loves the math
[46:56] problem. He does like, yeah, the opposite
[46:58] of me. And his character demonstrates
[47:03] the important of different disciplines and being able to
[47:05] collaborate, something real nervous obviously interested in
[47:07] because like was saying, he is a very collaborative director.
[47:10] And Ian is a good character, but there's not much to him on the
[47:13] page. We know nothing about him.
[47:15] He's a plot device essentially. He's basically there for the
[47:17] weeks to have a baby with. And that's a shame because it's
[47:20] not a long film. The runtime's under 2 hours.
[47:23] So there was some room to explore Ian a bit more, maybe.
[47:26] Aside from deciphering the tapestry that I mentioned, he
[47:28] doesn't actually do anything of any use to anybody.
[47:32] So I do find what I do is quite impressive because I do like Ian
[47:35] in the film. He needs a bit more to do, but
[47:37] it's better for him being there. Mr. Dependable, like you say,
[47:40] Matt. Yeah.
[47:41] I think the thing that we've got to look at as well is how the
[47:44] gender roles are reversed in this film.
[47:46] You normally have the male who takes the lead and he's the
[47:48] linguist and he knows everything, and you've got the
[47:50] female who's the scientist who hangs around in the background.
[47:53] That's what's wonderful about this.
[47:54] And then you normally have the female character who's just
[47:57] there to have the baby. And I think it is a shame that
[48:01] Renner doesn't get more to do. But then there is that real risk
[48:03] of if he has more to do, you question his characters motives
[48:07] and then you question her decision at the end to be with
[48:10] him and have the child with him. So you've got to keep him as
[48:13] basic as possible because that needs to happen.
[48:15] You need to buy into that relationship.
[48:17] And I think if he does anything else and questions anything of
[48:21] ruffles, any feathers to the audience, then they're going to
[48:23] think, well, why did you choose him?
[48:24] He did this? So the kind of just keep him
[48:26] very, very stable, very much on the page.
[48:28] Everything right he's that he's a fairy tale, isn't he's like
[48:31] Prince Charming and Rena understands that.
[48:33] I think he totally gets that and he runs with it and he's he's
[48:36] quite happy to sit in the background and be the person who
[48:39] she chooses at the end, because that's what the film's about.
[48:42] It's about choice. It's not about his character.
[48:44] It's about her character. That's the reason he hasn't got
[48:46] much to do. Yeah, and as with Amy Adams as
[48:48] Louise, Jeremy Rena was the first person being left.
[48:51] Wanted to play Ian. He said that he and Rena had met
[48:54] before, and we're talking about working together.
[48:56] And I did. It's very unusual to cast Jeremy
[48:58] Renner in the role of an intellectual.
[49:01] Bit harsh on Renner, yeah? That kind of compliment isn't.
[49:05] It thanks I think. Yeah, we only have said that
[49:07] when I was more used to playing Born and James Bond type
[49:09] characters. So he said that on the set he
[49:11] often be jumping around because he needed to release some
[49:13] energy. Yeah, sounds like a toddler.
[49:19] And like we've said, I mean, Renner said himself that when he
[49:21] read the script, he knew there wasn't much in there for him to
[49:23] do. I mean, he's not stupid.
[49:24] We all know this, but he said he really wanted to work with Amy
[49:27] Adams again after working with our on American Hustle.
[49:29] He said it was a phenomenal part for Amy and a phenomenal part
[49:33] for a woman, and I was interested in supporting her and
[49:35] supporting that with Brilliant. Yeah, he knows it and fine.
[49:38] Yeah. Selfless man, you're like, born.
[49:40] He is. He's like Ian.
[49:46] Yeah, I think Renner and Adams are very close as friends in
[49:48] real life bar. Yeah, you can tell.
[49:49] Yeah. If you know, must have been keen
[49:51] again too, because production was scheduled to begin based on
[49:53] when Renner was available because he was filming Captain
[49:56] America Civil War at the time as Hawkeye.
[49:58] Yeah. OK.
[49:59] Right. OK, no Oscars for Jeremy Renner
[50:01] was in. Imagine nothing for Adams.
[50:07] I mean, he is a really good supporting actor, let's be
[50:09] honest. Well, best supporting actor went
[50:12] to Mahershala Ali for Moonlight, right?
[50:14] Yes. Fair enough.
[50:15] AB Renner, I think. Yeah.
[50:16] Definitely right. Yeah.
[50:18] I mean, yeah, you had about 16 more lines than Renner.
[50:22] But yeah, very much a support in turn.
[50:24] But we like Jeremy Renner. Is he in?
[50:25] Yeah, yeah, yes. He's great.
[50:27] He does exactly what he needs to do.
[50:29] So that's our main 2 cast members.
[50:31] We've already mentioned Forest Whitaker and have some
[50:33] information on one or two of our cast members to come.
[50:36] But it is all about our two leads really.
[50:38] And great lead and support performances from Amy Adams and
[50:42] Jeremy Renner. Yeah.
[50:43] Yes, lovely. All the right movies will be
[50:52] back shortly. Thank you for supporting us by
[50:54] listening to this episode. Sponsors.
[50:59] Thanks for listening to our sponsors.
[51:01] Now back to the show. The middle.
[51:10] Heading into the middle of Arrival and the sessions between
[51:12] Louise, Ian and the Heptapods grow more intense.
[51:15] We're going to be talking in the scenes where a group of soldiers
[51:18] go rogue and plant a bomb in the alien ship.
[51:20] Before that, though, there's some friendlier moments to
[51:22] discuss. There are, so having made the
[51:25] initial breakthrough with the Heptapods, Louise gets to work
[51:28] deciphering the language. We get a little montage when Ian
[51:31] explains what the humans have learned so far, but not before
[51:34] Louise gets the aliens names out of them.
[51:37] That's right. Now that is a proper
[51:38] introduction, Matt. It really is.
[51:39] How are these sessions for you? I mean it's a great session, but
[51:42] what's Webber doing being on their case here?
[51:44] Like perhaps we should move on to the next word.
[51:46] Like calm down mate. 5 minutes, I know I'll do our job.
[51:52] In a time. But I love how there's been this
[51:54] pent up frustration from Louise and not being able to make that
[51:57] breakthrough and that culminates with her taking the hazmat suit
[51:59] off and that feels like such a big moment.
[52:02] You can hear the panic in the military voices in the
[52:04] background. But again, I just love how it's
[52:06] her leading the way here and it's Ian who follows her example
[52:10] in a bit. And I think the point is, face
[52:12] to face communication is always better.
[52:14] Like, the Heptabods might not have a face as we would
[52:17] understand it, but all the same, it's just important, you know,
[52:20] if you were talking to someone in a mask, you would feel more
[52:22] comfortable when that mask comes off.
[52:24] And I think that's what she realizes here.
[52:26] And that's why this one's important.
[52:27] And it just feels like there's a real shift in the balance of
[52:30] power here because it's Louise who makes the breakthrough.
[52:33] She's now completely justified her presence there.
[52:36] And I just love that shot of Louise where she's framed
[52:39] between the two heptapods and then placing her hand on the
[52:41] barrier, which the heptapod doesn't response.
[52:44] Really iconic. But the last thing that strikes
[52:47] me about the scene is when Ian takes his suit off and he says
[52:49] everybody dies, right? For every prophetic one wants to
[52:52] come. Yeah, he only takes half of it
[52:54] off as well. I think that's quite important
[52:56] for the character. He doesn't fully commit.
[52:57] Yeah, yeah, I mean, she's hard as nails, Louise isn't.
[53:00] She just strips off great. But again, it's all beautifully
[53:03] shot. Again, I find it quite moving
[53:04] seeing Louise making this bond with Albert and Costello.
[53:07] But and importantly, I think it's around this time that we'll
[53:10] get see Louise get her first flash forward when she sees hang
[53:13] out with what I think's a horse. It's all in silhouette and we'll
[53:16] see her sitting in the long grass and by the leg.
[53:18] And obviously we're taking these flashbacks at first.
[53:20] One of my favorite things we only have does in the film that
[53:23] there's a clear theme of language.
[53:24] The whole premise is based around Louise learning the HEPAJ
[53:27] language that's there in the writing from the original story.
[53:30] But the genius touch of Your Nerve brings is how he reflects
[53:32] that by playing around with the language of cinema as well to
[53:34] control and then reveal the twist.
[53:37] I mean, we know that if we cut from a scene of Louise playing
[53:39] with Hannah in the garden to a reaction shot of Louise in a
[53:41] different place, that was a flashback.
[53:43] It's like the colour shove effect.
[53:45] It is a colour shove effect, yeah.
[53:46] And we'll have played with it because they're not flashbacks,
[53:48] the flash forwards symbol, but brilliant.
[53:51] We're doing it. Yeah.
[53:52] And it's all there once, you know, on RE watches, it's clear
[53:55] as day that Louise doesn't understand what these memories
[53:57] are. Yeah, it's really obvious.
[53:59] Yeah. But we never even see the first
[54:01] time around. And we live adapting a story
[54:03] about written language in developing that to include the
[54:05] language of cinema. That is brilliant.
[54:08] It is. It's great.
[54:09] It's Amy Adams performance and how you can take confusion and
[54:11] sorrow. And it makes the same kind of
[54:13] expression, Yeah, because you don't understand sorrow, really.
[54:16] So you can be confused about the pain that you feel.
[54:18] And that's works as well. The culture of the fact.
[54:20] It's wonderfully, wonderfully done.
[54:22] Wonderfully done. Yeah, I mean, it's just a
[54:23] master, isn't he? Understands cinema, yeah.
[54:26] But in the book Louise names the heptapods, Flapper and
[54:29] Raspberry. Rubbish names, terrible names,
[54:33] not good at. All at large, you've had my way.
[54:37] Well, the inspiration is because of the noises they make with
[54:40] their spoken language, right? But obviously in the film, as
[54:42] we've said, Ian suggests Abbadon Costello instead and that
[54:45] obviously Premieron he doesn't know.
[54:47] And they were famous comedy double act Bud Abbott, Lou
[54:50] Costello. And their most famous routine is
[54:53] who's on 1st, where there's lots of mixed communication between
[54:55] them. Yeah.
[54:56] Who's on first base? Who's on first base?
[54:58] Yeah, he is. Who?
[54:59] Yeah, but who's on first base? Yeah, who's on second base?
[55:01] No, who's on 1st? All that kind of stuff.
[55:04] Massive influence on like Malcolm wise as well.
[55:06] I think it's kind of five similar.
[55:08] And in the Italian version of the film, they were concerned
[55:10] that audiences wouldn't know who Abbott and Costello were.
[55:13] So you know what they named the heptopods?
[55:14] Malcolm and Wise, Eric and Early.
[55:16] No, it was Tom and Jerry. All right, OK, all.
[55:21] Right. And the Sheena Easton reference
[55:23] where Ian C is, she had hit in the 80s in each of the ship's
[55:26] landing sites. Yeah, that's changed for the
[55:28] Italians to Pink Floyd. Yeah, not The Three Tenors.
[55:32] Right, Right. Massive in Devon Floyd and here
[55:37] we go into the moment that I really enjoy this part of the
[55:40] film because it comes in at around 52 minutes, so we're
[55:43] pretty close to halfway and it feels like a bit of an
[55:46] intermission. It feels like a bit of here's
[55:49] what we don't know. I love that as a voice over
[55:52] that's really good and there's a really lovely shine here is when
[55:55] the soundtrack starts to really make itself known.
[55:57] It's just been atmospheric up until this point, but then it
[55:59] really works together with it and you find out that the
[56:02] heptapods are really peaceful. There's no radiation, no gas, no
[56:06] waste. What they do with them right
[56:07] about now, if I'm completely honest with you, all these great
[56:10] questions are the scientists or the tourists.
[56:12] Lovely collection of images, a great montage sequence.
[56:15] And I just love the way that the dialogue doesn't dial it down.
[56:18] You know, the non linear ethography, all that, no sense
[56:21] of time, just a wonderful moment where everything starts to kind
[56:25] of come together, but in a not in a cheesy way, in an
[56:27] absolutely necessary middle of the film montage kind of
[56:32] intermission. This Is Us as characters, as
[56:34] people in this film see, and this is what we do not
[56:37] understand. And I think that's brilliant.
[56:39] Yeah, I do enjoy a good montage. I think the phone works great.
[56:42] I think it's really good. Yeah.
[56:43] And it is nice that Ian gets a moment in the sun doing the
[56:46] voice over. Yeah.
[56:47] Yeah. And the clips that we see are
[56:48] basically all longer scenes from the book condensed in just a few
[56:51] seconds. So nice references for the Ted
[56:53] Chang fans. Yeah, it's a nice nod for that.
[56:55] Yeah, but that YouTube, I will see Richard Riley.
[56:57] He's calling the film, played by Marc Camacho, who's like the
[57:00] smartest thing we could do right now is give them a show of force
[57:03] shutting across the bow. I can't stand that guy.
[57:07] Depressingly familiar that now as well.
[57:09] It is. And then straight after that,
[57:11] there's that scene where Louise and Dean are on the back of the
[57:13] truck. Ian just slips in that he's
[57:15] single and gets Louise to confirm the cheese as well.
[57:18] He's not daft after all, is he? Really scientific.
[57:22] That's why are you single then? Communication and you know.
[57:27] And actually, the montage wasn't in the script originally, and
[57:29] neither was the dream sequence where Louise sees the heptapod
[57:33] in her room. That was originally a
[57:34] conversation between Louise, Ian and Webber that veal nerve
[57:38] removed. But he had to keep it because it
[57:39] was the only scene I mentioned. The sappy a Wharf hypothesis,
[57:42] which kind of explains how Louise starts to see the future.
[57:45] Yeah, we'll explain the hypothesis a little bit later.
[57:48] But that shot of the Hepat in the corner, it's like the end of
[57:51] Enemy by Veal Live, isn't it? Is.
[57:52] Yeah, definitely. Where JJL N sees the massive
[57:55] spider. Should have ended with a
[57:56] hypnopod in enemy. Imagine that.
[57:58] What the hell is that? Cut the black.
[58:01] He would have an outside if they'd been designed.
[58:03] Only slightly less confusing than the actual end.
[58:07] Some nice scenes there, then a nice bonding session than a nice
[58:10] montage. Events are about to take a bit
[58:13] of a turn though, yeah? Sure are.
[58:17] Things are heating up, with nobody close to finding out why
[58:20] the heptapods are here. Tensions between the world
[58:22] governments grow. Weber has Louise asked the big
[58:24] question and when they don't like the answer, China break
[58:27] communication followed by Russia and a group of U.S. soldiers
[58:31] detonate a bomb in the heptapod ship off our weapon Mart bit
[58:36] vague from the heptapods that a little.
[58:38] Bit yeah, put some effort in lads they've.
[58:40] Just learned English, give them a break.
[58:43] How to play out for you? The build up to that next
[58:46] session is really excellent. We find out China's escalating
[58:49] the situation. Love that conversation we get
[58:51] between Louise and Webber after she's listened to the recording
[58:54] and she realizes the talking in terms of mahjong.
[58:57] And it leads to that great exchange.
[58:59] If all I ever gave you was a hammer, evidence, a nail, I
[59:02] mean, it just distills the whole situation brilliantly.
[59:05] Great. And it just sums up that
[59:06] inherent danger of misunderstanding something which
[59:09] obviously we get when she goes up there and they say off a
[59:12] weapon, which is, you know, the least useful thing they could
[59:15] say to be honest in that situation.
[59:17] I mean, I think the film takes a bit of a leap that we're at the
[59:19] point where they would understand announced which is
[59:21] weapon. But I'm so engaged with the
[59:23] story at this point. It's fine.
[59:24] I'll go with it. And then the leads to know the
[59:26] dialogue scene, which really like which is the one with
[59:28] helping the CIA agent where they're trying to work out what
[59:32] the intention is. And the interesting thing for me
[59:33] about this character, he's not a warmongering idiot.
[59:36] He knows his history. He mentions the British and
[59:38] India, Germans and Rwanda did the same thing.
[59:40] And that's what he fears, history repeating itself.
[59:43] So you understand his motivation.
[59:45] And then I do love that line about we live in a world with no
[59:48] single leader. How do you communicate with us?
[59:50] I think that's great as well. Yeah.
[59:52] Yeah, they've been banging about this big question for the whole
[59:54] film, and then when they don't have the answer, everyone goes
[59:57] absolutely mental. Yeah.
[59:59] And yeah, Agent Halpern, the CIA operator, starts to come into
[1:00:02] it. Just there's the pot him Captain
[1:00:04] America. Just wants a war, doesn't he?
[1:00:06] Yeah, you mentioned the British in your India and the Germans in
[1:00:08] Rwanda. I mean, yeah, fine.
[1:00:10] But the US are quickly clean. Are there most skeletons?
[1:00:12] Yeah. Yeah.
[1:00:14] Yeah, Hartman, like, never trust anyone ever.
[1:00:18] He's an important character though.
[1:00:19] Really ups the conflict in the camp.
[1:00:21] I do think it's quite funny when Louise is just like, do I have
[1:00:24] to talk to this guy? It's totally think of his crap.
[1:00:26] Yeah, Help Her displayed by Michael Stuhlbag and Ville
[1:00:30] newcast him after seeing him in their Serious Man by the Coen
[1:00:32] brothers. And I always forget that film
[1:00:34] exists, to be honest. It's really good.
[1:00:36] It's really. Good, brilliant.
[1:00:37] And he's brilliant in it. He's wonderful in it, yeah.
[1:00:40] And to prepare for the role, Stillbog met with the real CIA
[1:00:42] agent, who told him to read a book called Fair Play by an ex
[1:00:45] CIA agent called James Olson that explored the kind of moral
[1:00:49] dilemmas spies have to face. Yeah, I think he's good in the
[1:00:52] film. Michael Stuehlberg.
[1:00:53] He's great in the film, yeah. I'm not sure how been suffering
[1:00:56] much of A moral dilemma though. It'd be Starship treatments if
[1:00:59] it was up to him. Yeah, I mean, talking about kill
[1:01:03] them all, here we go. It's kind of the panic, I guess,
[1:01:06] that we're seeing on the screens.
[1:01:08] And the great thing about this is that throughout this whole
[1:01:11] film, the action film, the sci-fi action film has been
[1:01:14] happening somewhere else. We are with the scientists and
[1:01:17] it's normally the other way around.
[1:01:18] We're with the action and we're waiting for the scientists to
[1:01:20] figure this out, to give us the code and diffuse it all.
[1:01:23] You know, it's the Independence Day is happening somewhere else
[1:01:26] and we are now with the people trying to figure it out.
[1:01:28] And to be perfectly honest, I prefer this camp.
[1:01:30] I'd rather be just talk it through, let's say, you know,
[1:01:33] let's just everyone calm down. And that's where these things it
[1:01:37] meets and it boils over because they are trained to destroy any
[1:01:41] threat. They aren't trained to be
[1:01:42] linguists. They aren't trained to be
[1:01:43] scientists. Like Matt said, it is a little
[1:01:45] bit bumbly. It is a little bit heavy-handed.
[1:01:47] But I mean, yeah, this is kind of where it dips for me slightly
[1:01:50] in the plot because you would give them a little bit more of a
[1:01:52] chance. You wouldn't just hear one word
[1:01:54] weapon and then that's it, right?
[1:01:55] Everything just down, tools go back in.
[1:01:57] What do they mean? For me, it's the way that this
[1:01:59] is built, the way the tensions built, and you think, oh, this
[1:02:02] is the longest 10 minutes that this bombs ever going to go off,
[1:02:04] but it actually takes 5 minutes to go off.
[1:02:06] So then you've cuts it in half. It could have actually really
[1:02:09] drawn this out, but he does it quite quickly and I love the way
[1:02:11] the heptopods are reacting to this.
[1:02:13] They're knocking on the glass, they know what's going to
[1:02:15] happen. Everything's circular.
[1:02:17] They don't say time the same way we do, which means that Abbott
[1:02:20] knows that he's going to die and he's known all the way through,
[1:02:23] which means that's why he's really quiet in the whole film.
[1:02:27] Depressed. He's just he's just at the back
[1:02:29] of school. Why the fuck you have to do this
[1:02:31] again? Costello.
[1:02:33] But he knows he Costello was like, that's why I would pushes
[1:02:35] everything forward and shows them everything at once because
[1:02:37] he knows what has to happen and he knows he has to sacrifice
[1:02:40] himself, which is the same way that Amy Adams has to make that
[1:02:44] choice and make that sacrifice to move forward, which I'll get
[1:02:46] new later with a little bit of a theory later on.
[1:02:48] OK, a lovely. It's just the way that this is
[1:02:51] done and the whole desperation of trying to figure this out
[1:02:54] without any violence, and the violence is always there and
[1:02:56] it's boggling in the background and you cannot escape it.
[1:02:58] And that's what Bill New saying is like, no matter how much
[1:03:01] intelligence, no matter how much patience you've got, there's
[1:03:03] always going to be violence in the world.
[1:03:04] And that's what we get from this whole sequence.
[1:03:07] And it's just awesomely done. Beautiful countdown.
[1:03:09] And I just love the bit when Abbott just hits the glass and
[1:03:12] they just fly backwards and there's that push and it's bomb,
[1:03:15] bomb goes off, the doors shut. And then we're like, right,
[1:03:17] that's it. And this sequence could have
[1:03:19] been a lot bigger than it was. It could have been right.
[1:03:21] I'm doing this and I'm putting all this action into it.
[1:03:23] Doesn't do it. Keeps it grounded, keeps it
[1:03:25] level, keeps his head, keeps the film rolling.
[1:03:27] Perfect. Yeah, like I would say they're
[1:03:29] ticking clock all the way through the scene.
[1:03:31] Yeah, the first time I saw the film, I was like, they've not
[1:03:33] put a bomb on there, Surely have that.
[1:03:35] Yeah. Outrageous behavior from these
[1:03:37] mutineers. It's brilliant the way that's
[1:03:39] revealed as well. You see the the writing on the
[1:03:41] side. It's just, it's illuminated,
[1:03:42] it's brilliant. Yeah, it's great.
[1:03:43] Yeah, but have no idea at all how they have the possible
[1:03:45] reaction. They might blow the whole planet
[1:03:47] up. They know.
[1:03:48] Yeah, exactly. It is really well judged by
[1:03:50] Villeneuve, who I think adds a bit of spectacle in action to
[1:03:52] the story without going too crazy with it.
[1:03:54] Yeah, I love the moment the heptapods essentially turn off
[1:03:58] the kind of fake gravity so Louise and Ian just fall back
[1:04:00] down the ship. Yeah.
[1:04:02] And the sound designed to cut from silence of the explosion is
[1:04:05] brilliant. And again, the context changes
[1:04:06] on a rewatch. The hepatopods don't save Louise
[1:04:09] out of generosity. It's presumably because they
[1:04:11] know the future and that she's the one who ends up deciphering
[1:04:13] their language. That's why they save her.
[1:04:15] And the flash forward just after this is maybe the key one for
[1:04:18] me. It's the non 0 sum game.
[1:04:20] Yes, the first time their flashback doesn't make sense
[1:04:23] because Louise uses knowledge in the flashback that she doesn't
[1:04:25] learn until later. Yeah, I think it's really clever
[1:04:27] to be honest. And that phrase Nonzero sum game
[1:04:30] forever linked with a rival for me.
[1:04:32] Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah.
[1:04:33] That means first time I've heard it, probably the last time I've
[1:04:35] heard. I'm not going to hear that me
[1:04:37] day-to-day travels, am I? It's.
[1:04:39] Not catchy is it I? Love that flash forward as well
[1:04:41] when she's like you want science, call your father.
[1:04:43] Yeah, great. It's on the page, it's right
[1:04:44] pretty. Yeah, yes, I said.
[1:04:46] I do find it a big contrive to get to this point in terms of
[1:04:49] the narrative, but just in terms of the filmmaking though, it's
[1:04:52] just incredibly well done. It's extremely tense.
[1:04:55] It's really well put together. And we've talked about that
[1:04:58] explosion that was created with a blend of practical and digital
[1:05:00] effects. So stuntmen were filmed against
[1:05:03] a blue screen and harness rigs, and were filmed being yanked
[1:05:06] backwards to create the effect of gravity switching off right
[1:05:08] with the explosion, then added digitally.
[1:05:11] It looks fantastic. It does.
[1:05:12] It does. They get a really good blend of
[1:05:14] digital and practical effects in this I think.
[1:05:16] All the way through the film, yeah.
[1:05:17] Yeah, and that is the middle section of Arrival, and the
[1:05:19] story has moved on quite a bit. Louise is getting closer to
[1:05:22] figuring out what's happening, while the military are getting
[1:05:24] closer to starting interstellar warfare.
[1:05:27] It's all pretty engaging stuff. Really engaging, Yep.
[1:05:30] Yep, and it's all a matter of time.
[1:05:31] Oh, there he is. The crew.
[1:05:40] The team behind the scenes on Arrival was a mix of long time
[1:05:42] denial of collaborators and some first time partnerships.
[1:05:46] That's where we're headed now as we talk the music on the film,
[1:05:49] the visuals will say on screen and first of all the writing of
[1:05:52] the movie. The credited screenwriter on
[1:05:55] Arrival, then, is Eric Heiser, adapting Ted Chang's novella
[1:05:58] Story of Your Life. Starting his career as a video
[1:06:01] game writer, Heister broke into Hollywood in the mid 2000s and
[1:06:05] at the time of Arrival had built a name for himself in the horror
[1:06:08] genre, mainly writing the Nightmare on Elm Street remake,
[1:06:11] Final Destination 5, The Thing reboot and Lights Out.
[1:06:15] Right, right. I mean the last two I can get on
[1:06:17] board with. Possibly not the guy you'd be
[1:06:21] expecting to write a cerebral science fiction script then,
[1:06:23] Matt. No, but how was the writing on
[1:06:25] arrival? I mean, kudos to him really to
[1:06:28] come from that background. And what he does is he takes
[1:06:30] that alien contact concept and just goes in a very different
[1:06:35] direction with it. This is much more the day the
[1:06:37] Earth stood still than it is Independence Day, which I think
[1:06:40] we should all be very grateful for.
[1:06:42] Absolutely. And because of that approach, it
[1:06:44] does take that inherent concept really seriously.
[1:06:46] If aliens did land and they can't speak English, how would
[1:06:50] we learn to communicate with them?
[1:06:52] And how the film tackles that is the part of the writing that I
[1:06:54] really, really enjoy. When Louise breaks down the
[1:06:57] problems they're facing in terms of communicating, in terms of
[1:07:01] how do you even begin to define the most simple of concepts?
[1:07:03] Yeah, both in their terms and then from them to us.
[1:07:07] That's all really fascinating. You know, I really do love
[1:07:09] watching films where it's intelligent people solving
[1:07:13] problems intelligently. That's really gripping to me.
[1:07:16] And you feel like you're learning something at the same
[1:07:17] time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[1:07:18] You do, but in this you don't feel you being talked down to.
[1:07:21] Why you're learning exactly, You know, it does treat you with a
[1:07:24] bit of respect and it does try to tackle big themes at the same
[1:07:27] time. I've seen this film get called
[1:07:29] profound a lot. I don't know if I'd go As for
[1:07:31] saying that it's profound. It's kind of message at the end.
[1:07:34] Things would be better if we all communicated a bit better.
[1:07:36] That's not the deepest message I've ever heard in a film, but
[1:07:39] it explored well. So I think the fundamental
[1:07:42] problem of the language barrier they've got to overcome, that's
[1:07:46] explored really, really well, and that's the highlight of the
[1:07:48] writing for me. Yeah, I agree.
[1:07:50] There's a lot going on with the writing.
[1:07:52] I think it's an original take on the first contact movie, and it
[1:07:55] focuses on the part. First contact and movies usually
[1:07:57] skip straight past learning how to communicate with an alien
[1:08:00] species. It's also a pretty fresh take on
[1:08:03] the time travel movie. Louise develops memories of the
[1:08:05] future, which is quite interesting, and there's a lot
[1:08:08] of themes. There's a theme of language, a
[1:08:10] theme of collaboration, a theme of context versus perception.
[1:08:13] The theme that interests me most, though, is the exploration
[1:08:16] of determinism. The question is, do we have free
[1:08:18] will, or is everything that happens inevitable and free will
[1:08:21] is just an illusion? The whole idea of Louise having
[1:08:23] memories of the future suggests the film is saying yes.
[1:08:26] Everything is set in advance, and that's definitely the angle
[1:08:29] the book takes. In the book, Louise basically
[1:08:31] says once you know what the future is, you would never
[1:08:33] conceive of doing anything differently, and she and the
[1:08:36] hepatopods kind of play out scenes knowing what's going to
[1:08:38] happen. In the film, though, it is more
[1:08:41] than he wants, and Louise does demonstrate free will.
[1:08:43] She makes the choice to have Hannah even though she knows
[1:08:45] she'll be taken by terminal illness.
[1:08:47] I mean, that's why he leaves her at the end, isn't it?
[1:08:49] Because she made that choice. And that's a more interesting
[1:08:52] question to me. Would you have your child, if
[1:08:54] you know the pain coming when she dies very young?
[1:08:57] These questions are all raised in the film.
[1:08:58] But even beyond that, it's still an interesting, relatable story
[1:09:01] about human relationships. Or an interesting take on what
[1:09:04] first contact might look like. Doing all those things at once
[1:09:07] and without being confusing. I think it's science fiction
[1:09:09] writing at its best, to be honest.
[1:09:11] Yeah, I think it's great that he gives every character their
[1:09:14] moment and everyone is quite well-rounded and you know who
[1:09:17] everybody is. And there's no cliches in here.
[1:09:19] Like I've said before, keeps all the action off screen.
[1:09:22] If this was anyone else had that in this novel, it would be.
[1:09:24] We've made contact with the aliens and they've mentioned
[1:09:27] weapon. Now we're going to get Will
[1:09:28] Smith involved and now the film starts.
[1:09:30] I think the whole point of this is a very human story and it is
[1:09:33] very subtle in its delivery. And the whole point is you've
[1:09:36] got no control over your future. And irregardless of free will or
[1:09:40] not, would you have that love if you know what's going to end in
[1:09:43] sadness, it always is going to end in sadness.
[1:09:45] Everything ends, but you just don't know when it's going to
[1:09:48] end. So the choices that you make,
[1:09:49] are you just going to close yourself away from enjoying life
[1:09:52] because of what happens at the end?
[1:09:54] Are you going to accept that the love completely outweighs the
[1:09:56] pain of the sadness that comes later?
[1:09:59] And that's what I get from this film.
[1:10:00] It lands you in the moment where you just go actually shit.
[1:10:03] Yeah. I really need to start enjoying
[1:10:05] where I am and what I've got because it could be gone at any
[1:10:07] minute. And if you know that it's going
[1:10:09] to be gone, you'd still choose to have it.
[1:10:11] You know, it has that message. It's better to have love than
[1:10:13] lost. And it never loved at all.
[1:10:14] And. It is.
[1:10:15] That's classic message and. It addresses that message
[1:10:18] really, really well. And what film you've does is he
[1:10:20] doesn't sugarcoat that. He doesn't candy cane it, he
[1:10:22] doesn't make it schmaltzy, he doesn't make it over the top
[1:10:24] romantic. It's a very human story.
[1:10:27] It's very subtle and I think all of that is grounded in the
[1:10:30] writing and that's what it's trying to say, and that's what
[1:10:32] it ultimately delivers on the page as well as on the screen.
[1:10:36] So the story of Arrival didn't start with Denis Veal Nerve, it
[1:10:39] actually started with Eric Heiser.
[1:10:41] We've just told him on linear, like the film.
[1:10:44] So he came across another Ted Chang story called Understand,
[1:10:47] which is about a guy who develops like superhuman
[1:10:49] intelligence. From that he found Story of Your
[1:10:52] Life and became kind of obsessed with it.
[1:10:54] He then had a meeting with Dan Levine and Dan Corn and 21 Lap
[1:10:56] Entertainment because they wanted to work with them.
[1:10:59] They pitched him ideas apparently for two hours and he
[1:11:01] said no to all of them. So eventually they said, all
[1:11:03] right then, well, what do you want to do?
[1:11:04] And he basically said, have you read Story of Your Life?
[1:11:08] I kind of imagine him pulling it over his sleeve like Ron
[1:11:10] Burgundy with that flute. I wasn't prepared.
[1:11:13] I wasn't. Prepared.
[1:11:14] I really wasn't underneath the toilet, just reading the booth.
[1:11:21] So Levine and Cohen then read the book, loved it and said,
[1:11:24] Yep, we're in. So the theme got Ted Chang on
[1:11:27] board, pitched ID to studios, but nobody was interested.
[1:11:30] So Hester said nobody's going to buy it until they read the
[1:11:33] script. So he went off and wrote the
[1:11:34] film as a spec script. Risky business.
[1:11:37] Very risky, but 21 Laps also brought in two other production
[1:11:40] companies, Film Nation Entertainment and Lava Bear
[1:11:43] Films, to help raise funding. And then when the pitched ID and
[1:11:46] scripted the Cannes Film Market in 2014, Five Studio sorted a
[1:11:50] bit more, which was then won by Paramount, right?
[1:11:53] Yeah, I said. I said that when they did those
[1:11:55] initial pictures without a script they got some conditional
[1:11:57] offers, but it was stuff like can you change the lead to a
[1:12:00] man? You change it completely please.
[1:12:04] And one studio apparently said why not change it to an alien
[1:12:06] invasion movie and have someone punch the alien in the face.
[1:12:09] Really. Welcome to Earth.
[1:12:11] Why don't we call it Departure? The film's original title was
[1:12:16] Story of Your Life. Like the book, but One Direction
[1:12:19] store that. So then Villeneuve thought well,
[1:12:22] but when Villeneuve came on board, he didn't like it as he
[1:12:24] thought it sounded too much like a ROM com, which is totally fair
[1:12:27] enough. So the brainstormed hundreds of
[1:12:29] titles and ended up agreeing on the first one that they came up
[1:12:31] with, which was Arrival. Yeah, it's much better for a
[1:12:34] film, isn't it, Miles? Better snappy, yeah.
[1:12:37] Not to be confused with The Arrival from 1996, where Charlie
[1:12:41] Sheen discovers an alien signal and finds out aliens have been
[1:12:43] here all along. All right.
[1:12:44] Yeah, Yeah. Jesus.
[1:12:46] Yeah. And the film is a pretty
[1:12:48] faithful adaptation of the story of your life.
[1:12:51] But there were some changes. Some have mentioned, but there
[1:12:53] were others too. So in the book, the scientist is
[1:12:56] called Gary Donnelly, which is then changed to Ian Donnelly in
[1:12:58] the film. And he does play a large role in
[1:13:01] the book in terms of deciphering the Heptapod language.
[1:13:04] Colonel Webber, however, plays a large role in the film because
[1:13:07] in the book he's only in the scene at the start and then one
[1:13:09] at the end. Right.
[1:13:11] Yeah, again, IANS a better name, isn't it, Wesley?
[1:13:14] Absolutely. Middle names, Gary, is it
[1:13:18] really? I was going.
[1:13:19] To say I didn't do that, Gary could have gone with Declan
[1:13:24] Donnelly, called the have the pods PG and Duncan.
[1:13:29] Also in the book it's 112 heptapod ships that turn up
[1:13:33] worldwide, not just 12. Heist was said the chances to
[1:13:36] reflect the theme of time in the film. 12 hours on the clock, 12
[1:13:40] ships. Yes.
[1:13:42] Also, 112 is far too many. Yeah.
[1:13:44] They'll be turning up everywhere.
[1:13:45] Yeah. He won't see you much.
[1:13:46] Yeah. The word they look trying to
[1:13:48] communicate with us wouldn't go very well there.
[1:13:51] Probably is 1 and see him and no one's noticed.
[1:13:54] The one from Alien Three, that's the one that's insane.
[1:13:57] Still there. Still there.
[1:13:58] Yeah, all from the book. The military are not in contact
[1:14:01] with China, Russia or anybody else around the world.
[1:14:04] It's all just contained within the Montana base.
[1:14:06] And there's actually no threat of global war over the event.
[1:14:09] Right. Yeah, change for the best,
[1:14:11] surely. Definitely yeah.
[1:14:13] Although I do like how even in the film it is world changing
[1:14:16] event but we only ever see glimpses of the effect around
[1:14:18] the world. Yeah right.
[1:14:20] It's in the UK, obviously. Obviously, yeah.
[1:14:22] Any excuse? They're all in Viva Vendetta
[1:14:23] masks. Ridiculous.
[1:14:25] Yeah. But you know, it's fairly close,
[1:14:27] isn't it? Yeah.
[1:14:28] Yeah, exactly. Unfortunately.
[1:14:30] But maybe the biggest chainsaw is around Hannah because she's
[1:14:33] never named in the book and doesn't die of a terminal
[1:14:35] illness as a teenager. Instead, she dies in a rock
[1:14:38] climbing accident when she's 25. And one of the reasons to change
[1:14:42] Hannah's age is because it would have meant the hard age Amy
[1:14:45] Adams in the flash forwards. Oh yeah, that makes sense.
[1:14:48] Which would have given away the twist.
[1:14:49] Yeah, obviously, yeah. But that is a massive change.
[1:14:52] It changes the message of the story because a rock climbing
[1:14:54] accident is totally preventable. Just tell her not to go.
[1:14:57] Yeah, exactly. But in the book, Louise still
[1:14:59] doesn't stop it, even when she knows what's going to happen.
[1:15:01] Oh, really? Yeah.
[1:15:02] So it's kind of saying we don't have free will, which the film
[1:15:04] doesn't say that. Right.
[1:15:05] That gets a bit more complicated, doesn't it really,
[1:15:07] if you try and put that on the screen?
[1:15:08] But then again, they could have told her how to control gravity
[1:15:10] and then when she falls you could have just changed it.
[1:15:13] That would have been quite good actually.
[1:15:17] It would have been great. We mentioned the subtly above
[1:15:19] hypothesis earlier, and that is the basis of the idea.
[1:15:22] It's a theory that says that language can determine thought
[1:15:25] processes. So depending on the language you
[1:15:27] speak, it might influence how you perceive things or think
[1:15:30] about things. And in the case of the film,
[1:15:32] learning Heptopod provides Louise's brain so she's able to
[1:15:34] see the future, basically. Yeah, that theory goes back to
[1:15:37] the 1920s apparently, Edwards up here in Benjamin Wolf for the
[1:15:41] linguists. I don't think it's taking all
[1:15:42] that seriously nowadays from what I've read.
[1:15:45] But in the short story they talk about like very much principle
[1:15:48] of least time as well to explain how the time leaves work.
[1:15:50] So Ted Chang is clearly a big science guy and did his
[1:15:53] research. The film has a much like a touch
[1:15:55] in comparison. No science lectures for me and
[1:15:58] thankfully. I kind of buy into that though.
[1:16:00] What language you speak kind of does determine how you think
[1:16:03] about certain things. It is interesting, yeah.
[1:16:05] It is really interesting. Now if you speak George, then
[1:16:07] all you see is pasties flying the boat.
[1:16:10] And Greg came. From Greg Came from Yeah 12
[1:16:13] Greggs popped up first, originally called Carries.
[1:16:19] And the narrative was told out of sequence, like we've been
[1:16:21] talking about, and the first and the last scenes play one after
[1:16:25] the other. So if all the scenes in the film
[1:16:27] were played out chronologically, the shot of Louise walking down
[1:16:30] the hospital corridor after Hannah dies would be the final
[1:16:32] scene in the film. It's followed immediately by
[1:16:35] Louise walking into the university, which would be the
[1:16:38] first scene. Yes.
[1:16:40] Yeah, I love that they basically tell us the whole story in the
[1:16:43] 1st 5 minutes of the film. We just don't know what it is
[1:16:45] we're watching at the time. We have to learn how many
[1:16:47] decipher it, which is the same kind of journey Louise goes on
[1:16:50] in learning Hefter Pod. Yes, that's fantastic writing
[1:16:53] now. Yeah, it's.
[1:16:53] Brilliant, yeah. For his work in writing Arrival,
[1:16:55] Eric Heiser I was Oscar nominee for Best Adapted Screenplay,
[1:16:59] lost out to Barry Jenkins and Moonlight.
[1:17:01] Right. Yeah, it's swept, didn't it?
[1:17:03] Moonlight that swept the whole board.
[1:17:05] And for us, some brilliant writing on arrival.
[1:17:07] Yeah. From your first time in the VL
[1:17:11] Nerve collaborator and Eric Heisra, we're moving on to ADV
[1:17:14] regular in the music. The score for Arrival was
[1:17:17] written by Johann Johansson, an Icelandic composer working with
[1:17:21] VL Nerve for the third time, having created the scores for
[1:17:23] Prisoners and Sicario, DV and JJ together again, Then Matt, How
[1:17:28] was the music on Arrival? Definitely more of a score than
[1:17:32] a soundtrack, because to me a soundtrack means something that
[1:17:35] is themes and motifs that stick in your head and you can hum
[1:17:38] them Deus afterwards. Pop from the Max Rick to piece.
[1:17:40] This definitely isn't that. I think it's a score designed to
[1:17:44] accentuate everything else. Like, it's easy to overlook at
[1:17:46] now because of the amount of films about the subject, but
[1:17:49] fundamentally, if you think about like, if aliens were to
[1:17:51] land on Earth, it would be the single most terrifying moment
[1:17:54] ever. Just because these aliens don't
[1:17:57] seem intent on harm to begin with doesn't change that.
[1:18:00] And the score reflects that totally.
[1:18:02] It's very tense. It gets you on edge.
[1:18:04] That first trip into the ship that is called like a horror
[1:18:07] film. It's like something out of The
[1:18:08] Shining, not music there. So it's absolutely the kind of
[1:18:12] score the film needs. I think it's a wonderful piece
[1:18:13] of work. I think it's a great score and
[1:18:16] when you see behind the scenes stuff from how Johansson created
[1:18:19] it all, it's pretty impossible to not be impressed with how
[1:18:21] creative they were in recording the sound and then mixing them
[1:18:24] as well. And I mean, if you only have
[1:18:25] directed the film with a very like deaf touch all the way
[1:18:28] through. So Johansson has to reflect that
[1:18:30] with the music, which he does. It's all soft percussion and
[1:18:33] beyond delicate strings. He creates a mood rather than a
[1:18:36] melody, which I think is what we need for those shots of the
[1:18:39] alien shapes that are meant to be awe inspiring in the awe.
[1:18:42] But also, this is a film about aliens, and Johansson reflects
[1:18:45] that as well. There's some noises and
[1:18:47] arrangements which are just bizarre, like that swell in the
[1:18:50] score that you're talking about. Matt and the heptopods first
[1:18:52] appear. How good's that?
[1:18:54] Perfect. We had, but grounded.
[1:18:57] Yeah. Nothing that leaps out
[1:18:58] immediately. Maybe the music.
[1:19:00] But on re watches, which this film kind of demands, I think it
[1:19:03] just gets better every time. It's superb.
[1:19:05] Yeah, I mean, it's a it's a sad one for me.
[1:19:07] This guy just was taken far too young, I think 48.
[1:19:11] That's right, yeah. And I think he had a lot more to
[1:19:14] offer and a lot more to give. And I think on reflection of
[1:19:17] this film alone, the way he just creates texture and the use of
[1:19:21] long notes and the use of voices that he brings into it, and it
[1:19:24] just brings this whole palette, totally supports the visuals.
[1:19:28] I think he was an incredible talent.
[1:19:30] He was a very understated artist and that he was an ideal
[1:19:34] collaborator, especially for Valium and that he wasn't John
[1:19:37] Williams, he wasn't Han Zimmer. And the brought him and he
[1:19:40] started Blade Runner 2049 and the Broad Zimmer to finish it
[1:19:43] because they needed something else.
[1:19:45] And I think his strengths lie in what you hear in this film.
[1:19:47] I think this is his kind of Magnum Orbis, really.
[1:19:51] It's a real celebration for me of this guy's art and his
[1:19:53] talent. You know, the montage sequence
[1:19:55] that I spoke about, that's incredibly emotive, and at the
[1:19:58] end credits where it just comes with them voices and you're just
[1:20:00] sitting thinking about everything and then the voices
[1:20:02] are in your head and it really resonates with me.
[1:20:05] That's just so clever and really sets up the texture of the film
[1:20:09] in that you can't shoot this over darkness and it still has a
[1:20:12] personality and it just ties together beautifully.
[1:20:15] It's just the bull on top for me.
[1:20:17] And without this score, I don't think it would be anywhere near
[1:20:19] as ominous or as haunting or as memorable.
[1:20:22] No, definitely. Yeah, he's a reliance, doesn't
[1:20:24] he? Yeah, he.
[1:20:25] Was, yeah, amazing. And usually, the director puts
[1:20:28] together a first cut of the film before he hands it to the
[1:20:30] composer to let the musical off the top.
[1:20:32] But Johansson said he started writing and recording the score
[1:20:35] for Arrival before the movie it even started filming.
[1:20:38] And that's how he'd always worked with Feele Nerve.
[1:20:40] So Johnson said an iPhone recording of what he was doing a
[1:20:43] week before filming started. His proof of concept and feeling
[1:20:46] Love replied. Sounds great.
[1:20:48] Keep going with that. Yeah, yeah.
[1:20:51] Concept art for the ships and the script, which had those
[1:20:54] sketches of the logograms in that we talked about.
[1:20:56] Yeah. And he kind of reflected that by
[1:20:57] using a lot of layering and looping in the music to create
[1:21:00] the motifs to reflect like a circular theme.
[1:21:02] Yeah. And those soft hummers that we
[1:21:04] hear all the way through, those were a piano, but he faded them
[1:21:07] up after the initial strike in the key, so we don't hear the
[1:21:09] beginning. Yeah.
[1:21:10] So he was like playing around with time a bit.
[1:21:11] And the film does. Like the reverb of the Nord,
[1:21:14] it's like the past or the future.
[1:21:15] It's like you don't hear the initial hammer.
[1:21:17] Exactly. It's the resonance of what
[1:21:18] happens and left behind. That's just genius.
[1:21:21] I love that. That's great.
[1:21:22] And if you speak to anybody about the score, they're always
[1:21:24] going to bring up this theme, which, again, is quite relevant
[1:21:27] in other films, it has been used a lot.
[1:21:28] But the theme that plays at the start and the end of the film
[1:21:30] wasn't actually written by Johann Johansson.
[1:21:32] It's called On the Nature of Daylight, and it's a modern
[1:21:35] classical composer called Max Richter, who's one of my
[1:21:37] favorites. It's from 2003 composition.
[1:21:40] It's in the album The Blue Notebooks, if you haven't heard
[1:21:42] that. That whole album is amazing.
[1:21:44] And it being used so predominantly in the film meant
[1:21:47] that Johansson was ineligible for the nomination at the
[1:21:49] Oscars, unfortunately. But I mean, it does bookend the
[1:21:51] film beautifully. Yeah, we played at the start of
[1:21:54] this episode on the audio version, so that music on the
[1:21:57] nature of daylight, it's motif, like a run of notes, and then we
[1:22:00] hear the same notes again, but reversed.
[1:22:02] Yeah, it's palindromic, like parts of the narrative, like
[1:22:05] Hannah's name, which is why they used it.
[1:22:07] And it's beautiful, so fits in musically and thematically.
[1:22:10] It's incredible, it's a beautiful 6 minutes of music and
[1:22:13] it's in Shutter Island as well if you think you've heard it
[1:22:14] somewhere else. Right.
[1:22:16] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, no wonder if you'll let
[1:22:18] your hands and go off and do what you like for a few weeks.
[1:22:20] Absolutely awesome. Yeah.
[1:22:22] It was used primarily as a temp track in a lot of things, right?
[1:22:25] And a temp track is what you put in place to give to the editor.
[1:22:27] So he gets the pace and then that goes to the composer to
[1:22:30] replace that. And a lot of people just
[1:22:31] especially Scorsese unveiled you have just went, I'm not
[1:22:34] replacing that. How can you?
[1:22:35] How can you? It's too good.
[1:22:37] And the sound designer was Sylvan Bellamyre, and he'd
[1:22:40] worked with Field Nerf on Incendi's before this.
[1:22:43] And for the heptapods, he made their sound by combining bird
[1:22:46] sing and camels, gurgling and breathing through bagpipes and
[1:22:49] Maori instruments. Got the bagpipes in there?
[1:22:52] Get. Bagpipes in there straight away
[1:22:54] like brave heart. In on the bagpipes.
[1:22:58] Ian plays bagpipes while walking the old camel gargle.
[1:23:02] I love that camel's gargle doesn't.
[1:23:05] I knew the spit, but like I. Didn't know the gargle, No.
[1:23:08] And then the sound of the ships moving.
[1:23:09] That's a combination of rolling rocks, wind, earthquakes and ice
[1:23:13] breaking. Right.
[1:23:15] Yeah, the noise the ships make when they move sounds like
[1:23:17] cracking Thunder almost. Yeah, you could definitely hear
[1:23:19] the ice and that. Yeah, yeah, Johann Johansson
[1:23:22] wasn't nominated for an Oscar for his score for a rival as he
[1:23:24] wasn't eligible. Like we just mentioned Sylvan
[1:23:27] Bellamy, though, he was nominated for and won Best Sound
[1:23:29] Editing at the Oscars. Nice.
[1:23:32] And great work from both for. US, yeah.
[1:23:37] We're moving on to the visuals now on some more first time VLA
[1:23:40] of collaborators as we get into the cinematography and director
[1:23:43] of photography Bradford Young and the visual effects provided
[1:23:46] mainly by Rodeo FX and Oblique FX.
[1:23:49] Yeah, the cinematography then Westy, how was Bradford Young's
[1:23:53] work? Yeah.
[1:23:54] Bradford Young is absolutely fantastic here, a very
[1:23:57] naturalistic approach to his work and he's not scared to say
[1:23:59] that it's written all over everything he's done from Selma
[1:24:02] at first, saw his work in then body sense.
[1:24:04] It's just the way that, and I'm going to sound really technical
[1:24:08] here and I'm boring. People want to listen to it.
[1:24:09] Fine, if you don't, I'll be over in a minute.
[1:24:12] All the flash forwards are shot in a 35 mil, which gives it more
[1:24:15] or less what the eye sees. It's all handheld, it's all very
[1:24:18] loose. It gives the idea of home movies
[1:24:20] and it's very warm. And then the alien contact is on
[1:24:23] the 28 mil, so it's slightly more wide.
[1:24:25] We can see more of the environment.
[1:24:26] It's all very static. It's all Dolly shot, it's all
[1:24:28] steady cams. It's all very much like you know
[1:24:31] where you are in these two different worlds and that's what
[1:24:34] he tried to explore with both of them things.
[1:24:36] And what I said about shooting wide open, it means he's
[1:24:38] shooting on fast lenses. I think these are like a 1.9,
[1:24:40] which means that your lens is wide open.
[1:24:42] So you're just focused on one thing.
[1:24:44] You see the foreground or the background.
[1:24:45] You kind of do both what they do here.
[1:24:47] Bradford Young's decision as well, and Phil knew, was that we
[1:24:50] are not going to pull focus to an effect the aircraft that are
[1:24:53] flying over or the spaceship in the background or anything.
[1:24:55] It's all very much on the foreground.
[1:24:57] It's all very much concentrated on Louise as a character and
[1:25:00] follows the characters all the way through.
[1:25:03] And it's the integration of the CGI in.
[1:25:05] This is Bradford Young's first time doing anything on this
[1:25:07] scale, first time doing anything with, like, a blue screen.
[1:25:10] But you said that one of his favorite shots and one of my
[1:25:12] favorite shots, as well as when Louise is just going out and
[1:25:14] she's just trying to get a bit of fresh air and just separate
[1:25:16] herself from everything. And she's walking through that
[1:25:18] field. Yeah.
[1:25:19] A kind of sunset or a dusk, and the ship's just there.
[1:25:23] Yeah. In the background, out of focus
[1:25:25] because you would just think, well, we're going to pan round,
[1:25:27] she's going to be in the foreground, and then we're going
[1:25:29] to rock focus. And we're just going to put the
[1:25:30] ship in focus. And it's going to to be her
[1:25:33] thought process never does that feels very naturalistic is
[1:25:37] lighten is very minimal. That uses dark really well, uses
[1:25:41] highlights really well. It's just a very accessible
[1:25:43] color palette as well that you notice that he's doing.
[1:25:45] He's got the Blues and then you've got the warmth of the
[1:25:47] flash forwards. Bradford Young, for the want of
[1:25:50] a better word, absolutely fucking nails this to the wall.
[1:25:53] It's a wonderful, wonderful turn from him, and he took this job
[1:25:57] because he had a young family, he was his father, and he wanted
[1:26:00] to explore. That was like shooting his wife.
[1:26:02] You feel like you're watching somebody else's home movies and
[1:26:04] someone else's memories. And that's what I think Bradford
[1:26:06] Young does really well. He absolutely nails it.
[1:26:10] Absolutely. I mean, you've said OSD.
[1:26:11] The cinematography is stunning. Yeah, breathtaking at times.
[1:26:15] The composition of stuff is incredible.
[1:26:17] We talked about the first white show of the HEP to pod ship and
[1:26:19] it is magnificent the way he shoots the interior of the ship,
[1:26:23] jaw-dropping. But he gets character as well.
[1:26:25] Like you say, Wesley, how many close-ups are there of Louise?
[1:26:28] And every one of them is like incredible.
[1:26:30] Yeah. I mean, explosive of Amy Adams
[1:26:32] is never going to look bad, to be fair.
[1:26:33] But Bradford Young just heightens even further.
[1:26:36] Yeah, they're like photographic at times.
[1:26:37] Those close. Ups the and I think that's the
[1:26:39] shadow depth of field as well. It's either on an eyelash or
[1:26:42] it's on a bit of hair. The face falls off focus.
[1:26:44] Yeah. So we're just on an eye and
[1:26:46] we're just really focused on the mindset of the character.
[1:26:49] It's really beautifully done. And there's things in the
[1:26:52] writing, in the music, and in the visuals as well.
[1:26:54] The opening shot which pans the Louise's living room window,
[1:26:57] we'll see that kind of like graceful panning all the way
[1:27:00] through the film. Fog and clouds I used a lot.
[1:27:02] The ships are always wrapped in fog.
[1:27:04] They have the pod. Natural habitat seems to be in
[1:27:06] those cloud filled chambers. And there's a circular theme.
[1:27:09] The logograms are circular. Louisa's classroom is circular.
[1:27:12] She walks down in a circular corridor in the hospital.
[1:27:14] Like, the lighting is incredible.
[1:27:16] The blocking is always brilliant.
[1:27:17] It looks stunning from the 1st frame to the last.
[1:27:20] It's just outstanding stuff for me.
[1:27:22] Yeah. We've waxed lyrically about
[1:27:23] quite a few aspects of the film and the cinematography might, I
[1:27:26] think, be the best of the lot. Yeah.
[1:27:28] Well, having said on that feeling, I've actually wanted to
[1:27:30] hire Roger Deakins as DP originally.
[1:27:33] Get out young. Get out, not you.
[1:27:36] Because of the previously worked together on Prisoners and
[1:27:38] Scario. But Deakins was already
[1:27:40] scheduled to shoot Hail Caesar for the Quan brothers and says
[1:27:43] we just couldn't do it. And Veal Nerve knew he wanted
[1:27:46] the film to have a strong sense of reality.
[1:27:48] And he described it as this was happening on a bad Tuesday
[1:27:51] morning, like when your kid on the school was on a rainy day.
[1:27:54] And he'd really like what Bradford Young and done in
[1:27:56] dramas like Selma and Almost Fighting.
[1:27:59] Yeah. So he hide him instead.
[1:28:01] Yeah, I think dirty sci-fi is how Young described the look,
[1:28:03] the one that they get. And again, like a drama
[1:28:06] background. That was Bradford Young's
[1:28:07] background. I think you can see that as well
[1:28:09] in that realism. And to see it works is an
[1:28:11] understatement. I think if you literally I
[1:28:13] called him a genius as well. Yeah, I think that's just little
[1:28:16] fire under Bradford Young inside.
[1:28:17] We've got you because we couldn't get Diggins and rooms
[1:28:19] went right. Well, fucking watch this.
[1:28:21] Yeah. Brilliant.
[1:28:23] Young later said that he was influenced by a Swedish
[1:28:25] photographer called Martina who gland Ivanov.
[1:28:28] Especially an exhibition in books you did called Speedway.
[1:28:31] That's a series of images of Speedway riders racing at night,
[1:28:35] and Young said he was influenced by the lighten.
[1:28:37] Yeah, if you've seen that, you can see, I think the light
[1:28:40] desaturated tones and the natural feel it has, it's there
[1:28:43] kind of an arrival, right? Sure.
[1:28:45] They have to put down the track, little of it.
[1:28:48] And the whole film was shot digitally rather than on film,
[1:28:51] Young said. They did that as they were often
[1:28:53] lightening ways you wouldn't normally, so it meant they could
[1:28:56] see what they were getting instantly rather than having to
[1:28:58] wait for the negatives to come back.
[1:29:00] Which makes sense, I think. Yeah.
[1:29:01] And he also said that with Switzer lenses, a lot like
[1:29:03] you're seeing rescue sometimes within the same scene to create
[1:29:06] a sense of like imperfection because different lenses can
[1:29:08] have like, different personalities, he said.
[1:29:10] Yeah, he uses a lot of like, old house lenses.
[1:29:13] He's got his own company called Tribe 7, and they basically
[1:29:16] house old lenses into like, new housing, right?
[1:29:19] And he's obsessed with like all their kind of vintage glass and
[1:29:22] flaring and texture cool. And you can see that in a lot of
[1:29:25] his work. And I think different lens
[1:29:27] manufacturers would make a 35 mil, which you'll you'll see
[1:29:30] exactly the same frame, but the texture is going to be
[1:29:32] different. So they could change that up.
[1:29:34] Again, it feels like you're watching an artist at work.
[1:29:36] Yeah, all the way through. Painting the picture and you're
[1:29:38] just watching every stroke of it.
[1:29:39] And it's, it's genius, Yeah. It's good enough for the knee,
[1:29:42] it's good enough for me. Absolutely.
[1:29:45] Yeah. So I'm going to talk about the
[1:29:46] effects in this because I think there's a wonderful scale to
[1:29:50] them. You know, we've just mentioned
[1:29:51] that amazing shot of Louise in the field where she's just
[1:29:54] taking some time to self. And as we've said, that ship in
[1:29:57] the background, just out of focus and love how you know
[1:29:59] that's like the USB of the film should be the ship and it's just
[1:30:03] there. But that gives it a reality.
[1:30:05] It's become everyday for these people.
[1:30:08] The shots where the portrait and you can only see the bottom of
[1:30:11] it, but it still takes up the whole of the top of the frame,
[1:30:14] which just emphasizes the size. But again, it's just a really
[1:30:18] interesting way of not going the kind of cliched money shot with
[1:30:21] them all the time. How many times would you see the
[1:30:23] ship in the foreground and it would half the frame and it
[1:30:26] would be coming down the ship who kind of like craying down
[1:30:28] and she would be tiny in the background out of focus walking
[1:30:31] towards it. That would just be an obvious
[1:30:32] thing to do and it just does not happen.
[1:30:34] Yeah, exactly. That's why I love the effects in
[1:30:36] here, because the effects just become properly part of the
[1:30:39] story. And then one scene we've talked
[1:30:41] about, which is where the gravity shifts.
[1:30:43] In that scene, the hazmat suits were added to the actors
[1:30:46] digitally as they were strapped in the harness wigs at the time,
[1:30:48] right? And that was done by Rodeo FX
[1:30:50] and Oblique FX did most of the wide trots of the spaceships,
[1:30:54] which combined CGI with Matt patents.
[1:30:56] Nice. And they're all incredible,
[1:30:58] every one of them. Yeah.
[1:30:59] There probably is more digital effect in there than most of us
[1:31:02] realize. I think.
[1:31:03] Definitely. Obviously they have the pods in
[1:31:04] the ships are done digitally. But there's a wide shot early on
[1:31:06] in Louisa's hall when she's leaving to join the mission.
[1:31:09] She's walking towards the helicopter and the house is
[1:31:11] behind her. You know, the shot that.
[1:31:12] I mean, yeah, that was shot against blue screen.
[1:31:14] And the house is all CGI. Yeah.
[1:31:16] And the establishing helicopter shot would get the, like, swirls
[1:31:18] around the camp, all the trucks in the tents.
[1:31:20] They were holding in CGI as well.
[1:31:22] But they use it really well. Oh yeah.
[1:31:24] That's how you do it. It's the Fincher method, isn't
[1:31:26] it? Yeah, it is.
[1:31:27] Yeah. Like I mentioned earlier,
[1:31:28] originally the alien ships were spherical shaped and made of
[1:31:31] glass. During pay production OR
[1:31:33] Villeneuve came across an image of a real asteroid called 15
[1:31:36] Eunomia in the asteroid belt. He showed that one of the
[1:31:38] designers on the film called Aaron Morrison and he developed
[1:31:41] in the design of the ships that were seen in the film.
[1:31:44] Yeah, they said there's a story about humans, so they wanted the
[1:31:46] spaceships to not be distracting or take away from that.
[1:31:49] So they made them quite subtle. They still look brilliant
[1:31:51] though, really distinct. They.
[1:31:52] Look amazing. I think one of the best effects
[1:31:54] in the film is when they disappear to turn into clouds.
[1:31:56] Oh fucking love. That yeah, it's.
[1:31:59] Genius. Well, talking about they have to
[1:32:01] pod ships, this is a fitting time for our second EATRM patron
[1:32:04] question. All right, this time it comes
[1:32:06] from Richard Hooley. Hello, Richard.
[1:32:08] Hello, Richard. Hello, Richard.
[1:32:10] So Richard asks. In terms of creature design,
[1:32:12] ship design, and the way in which the aliens communicate,
[1:32:15] Arrival is incredibly original. Which other Alien movies can you
[1:32:19] list that come close to this design originality?
[1:32:22] So what do you think about? I've gone for two here, 1
[1:32:27] relatively modern, one a bit old school, more modern one I've
[1:32:31] went for under the skin. Oh nice.
[1:32:33] Because you get to the end of that film and you still don't
[1:32:36] really know what the alien is supposed to look like.
[1:32:38] You don't what the craft looks like.
[1:32:40] It's only suggested kind of the beginning it there's the kind of
[1:32:43] light flaring in the sky and then the whole dark pool thing.
[1:32:47] It's called Johansson takes her victims.
[1:32:49] Yeah, really weird. Really.
[1:32:50] Weird. A lot of eye imagery, a lot of I
[1:32:52] was imagery, but nothing concrete that says this is what
[1:32:55] the aliens look like and this is their ship.
[1:32:57] It's left so ambiguous and it's one of the most striking takes
[1:33:00] on an alien I've ever seen. That one.
[1:33:02] And then classic gold skill. I would go for the 50s version
[1:33:05] of War of the Worlds. I love how they move away from
[1:33:07] the tripods, which he is she Wells uses in the book.
[1:33:10] And it's that kind of boomerang shape that they've got with the
[1:33:13] eye on the stalk. And I love like the kind of
[1:33:15] lasers just on the tips of the wings almost.
[1:33:18] They're not like cannons like you usually get with lasers.
[1:33:21] So I think that's such an evocative image, that one.
[1:33:24] That one's really well designed. Yeah, I love the look at the
[1:33:27] heptopods, like I said, and some of that great alien designs.
[1:33:31] The thing of course, ET obviously the aliens from Attack
[1:33:34] the Block I thought were quite original with like doing white.
[1:33:37] Fangs. Yeah.
[1:33:38] They're cool, yeah. I thought the prawns in District
[1:33:40] 9 were. Well, yeah.
[1:33:41] I mean, if we're talking Alien designs, nothing tops the Alien.
[1:33:44] The Xenomorph designed by HR Giga, Yeah, I mean the
[1:33:46] Facebooker as well. Phenomenal design work.
[1:33:49] And in terms of spaceship designs, again, arrivals in the
[1:33:52] conversation, I think the ships here look fantastic.
[1:33:54] The Nostromo, again, from Aliens.
[1:33:56] Brilliant Discovery 1 from 2001, maybe the most influential.
[1:34:00] I'm a big fan of the Highliner ships from June.
[1:34:02] Yeah, yeah, really minimalist, but look really good.
[1:34:05] But spaceships wise, I don't think you look too far past Star
[1:34:08] Wars. I mean, the Millennium Falcon X
[1:34:10] wings, TIE fight as Star Destroyers, all iconic.
[1:34:13] And that's just the first film. Crazy design work.
[1:34:16] Answer this in the Westie style here.
[1:34:18] Like have you got three films? I've got 1600 ships.
[1:34:22] And Westie, the best alien in spaceship design, work for you.
[1:34:25] I'm. Going to go for the earliest.
[1:34:26] For me, that really made an impact.
[1:34:28] And one of the first ones that I saw was the 1965 film Doctor Who
[1:34:31] and the Daleks with Peter Cushion.
[1:34:33] Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[1:34:34] I love that. One, it's fantastic.
[1:34:36] Roy Castle in there. Yeah, yes.
[1:34:38] That's right, it's just a wonderful film.
[1:34:40] It's just loads of fun. But I remember being absolutely
[1:34:42] terrified by the Dalek design, and I love the colors of them
[1:34:45] and how they all had, like, a rank order.
[1:34:47] Then you find out that there's these things inside of it.
[1:34:49] Yeah. Yeah.
[1:34:50] Thought, wow, that's just really fucking scary.
[1:34:52] And. The Daleks are fantastic.
[1:34:54] The Daleks are incredible design for like an alien because you
[1:34:57] don't quite know what it is. And they've got all these like
[1:35:00] different weapons, and the voices are fantastic.
[1:35:02] Wow. If that's what aliens are like,
[1:35:04] I'm scared already. And then one that nobody really
[1:35:06] mentions, but one that stuck with me for a long time.
[1:35:09] This came out in 1985. It's a film called Enemy Mine.
[1:35:13] Oh yeah, with Lou Gossett. Louie Gossett junior and Dennis
[1:35:16] Quaid don't. Think I've seen it?
[1:35:17] No. It's got Dennis Quaid in it, and
[1:35:18] basically Dennis Quaid's a starfighter and he's fighting
[1:35:20] against this alien race and they both crash land on this planet
[1:35:22] and they've got to kind of like coexist and get along with each
[1:35:25] other and survive. And it's like this reptilian
[1:35:27] design for Louie Gossett Junior, you would not know it's him.
[1:35:30] Definitely not. And for me, that's what I've
[1:35:32] always thought of like an alien would look like.
[1:35:34] It's incredible creature design. He's unrecognizable, like the
[1:35:37] shape of his heads, the similar to like the Xenomorph.
[1:35:40] It's got like a really original kind of tone to it and his voice
[1:35:44] is amazing in it. He's got this really strange
[1:35:47] reptilian voice. And I've always from that, I
[1:35:49] think I was about 6 when I saw that and I just that really
[1:35:52] stuck with me is like that's what aliens would be like
[1:35:55] because there would be relatable and have like this reptilian
[1:35:58] vibe to them, almost like a dinosaur look to them, but
[1:36:01] within a heightened intelligence.
[1:36:02] Yeah. So for me that's what I would
[1:36:04] say them to really stuck with me.
[1:36:06] Reminds me of about V the TV series where they've got green.
[1:36:09] They look great as. Well, there's, like, humans and
[1:36:11] them working together in V It's a similar kind of vibe.
[1:36:14] It's got that kind of energy to it.
[1:36:16] Yeah. But the Predator as well.
[1:36:17] I mean, you've got to say that, of course.
[1:36:18] Yeah. And the Predator ship you only
[1:36:19] see for a tiny bit at the start of the film.
[1:36:21] That's fucking cool As ice pops. Yeah.
[1:36:24] For his work on Arrival, Bradford Young became the first
[1:36:26] African American to be nominated at the Oscars for Best
[1:36:28] Cinematography. No small achievement.
[1:36:30] Wow. The person who beat him that
[1:36:31] year was Linus Sandgren for La La Land, right?
[1:36:34] OK. And the visual effects team
[1:36:35] weren't even nominated, which is surprising.
[1:36:37] Eh? That's crazy.
[1:36:39] The winners that year were MPC and Wetter Digital for The
[1:36:41] Jungle Book. The remake.
[1:36:44] I think we seem to agree, though.
[1:36:45] Pretty astonishing visuals throughout Arrival.
[1:36:47] Yeah. Yeah.
[1:36:49] So that's the main crew and the Navy Live clearly had a very
[1:36:51] talented team in his disposal. We talked about production
[1:36:54] designer Patrice Wermet and costume designer Renee April
[1:36:57] earlier, and with Eric Heiser, a screenwriter, Johansson,
[1:37:01] composer Bradford Young DP and the various visual effects
[1:37:04] studios quite the team worked on bringing your rival to life. 18
[1:37:08] No one's getting a baseball back to the back of the head this
[1:37:12] time. The end.
[1:37:19] The final act of Arrival and everything starts to come
[1:37:22] together. The climax of the film where
[1:37:24] Louise takes it upon herself to prevent World War 3 will be
[1:37:27] discussed. Before that, though, we're
[1:37:29] talking in the scenes where Louise starts to piece it all
[1:37:31] together. Yeah, we are.
[1:37:34] So with China and Russia closing down comms and other nations
[1:37:37] following suit, Louise decides enough's enough.
[1:37:40] She heads above the Heptapod vessel alone, and after a final
[1:37:43] chat with Costello, realizes her visions aren't hallucinations.
[1:37:47] She's seeing the future. Yeah, it isn't a weapon, Westy.
[1:37:50] It's a gift. It is a gift.
[1:37:52] How do these scenes work out for you?
[1:37:54] Yeah. I mean, this is where it starts
[1:37:56] to kind of wrap up and you start to get your head around it a
[1:37:58] little bit on 1st watch, still had no idea what was going on to
[1:38:01] be perfectly honest. The clarity does come the more
[1:38:03] that you watch it and it's more rewarding I think on RE watches.
[1:38:06] Oh. For sure.
[1:38:07] Yeah, that's. What they were aiming for, and I
[1:38:08] think it's especially what Phil New and Adams were aiming for,
[1:38:11] to give the audience the benefit that doubt and not to drown
[1:38:14] things out. And she asks about who is this
[1:38:16] child and where it's supposed to go.
[1:38:18] What are you talking about? Like, that's your idea.
[1:38:20] She's just confused. She's obviously in the
[1:38:21] atmosphere that plays and when you first watch it and just go,
[1:38:24] she doesn't know what she's doing.
[1:38:26] She doesn't have any idea. There's no music at the start of
[1:38:28] this. It's all just incredible sound
[1:38:30] design that just kind of bubbles in the background.
[1:38:33] But what I get from this, and like, I don't know if you guys
[1:38:36] are going to agree with this theory or whether you don't, but
[1:38:38] I think her going into that ship and into that atmosphere herself
[1:38:41] effects her body in such a way that basically is what happens
[1:38:44] to Hannah that contracts the disease.
[1:38:46] That's the radiation that's put inside her body.
[1:38:49] So by going up and solving the problem, she creates her own,
[1:38:52] much like Abbott had to sacrifice himself knowing that
[1:38:54] he's going to die. Abbott's in the death cycle, is
[1:38:56] what they say. And so is Hannah at that point,
[1:39:00] because it's irreversible. She's unstoppable and it's all
[1:39:03] circular. And maybe the point of this film
[1:39:06] is we're watching this and that's the start of the disease
[1:39:09] within her body that she passes on to Hannah.
[1:39:12] So there's things that she does that she faces consequences
[1:39:14] within this film of why Hannah would contract that disease.
[1:39:18] Circular. It all comes round in one.
[1:39:20] And that's what I get from this. And like the third or fourth
[1:39:22] time I watched it, I thought she's coughing, She's physically
[1:39:25] moved by this atmosphere. She's physically uncomfortable.
[1:39:28] And she receives the gift here. And the gift, as we've mentioned
[1:39:32] in the whole film, is a weapon. And the weapon, unfortunately,
[1:39:35] is inside her body and it's used against her unborn child.
[1:39:38] So I get all of that from this one sequence.
[1:39:41] And that just makes the film even more intelligent for me
[1:39:44] because it's not laid down thick.
[1:39:46] And I think if you interpret the film from that point of view, it
[1:39:48] just makes it far, far more interesting and gives this whole
[1:39:52] sequence far more depth and emotion that I really like that.
[1:39:56] I like to buy into that theory because I think that's she needs
[1:39:58] to sacrifice something to save everything else.
[1:40:01] Yeah, it's an interesting take. I see you could be on to
[1:40:03] something I think. Yeah, for once.
[1:40:06] As always, brave as a line, Louise.
[1:40:10] And she going to board the ship by herself.
[1:40:11] It happens. Like, what the hell is she
[1:40:13] doing? Piss off saving your ass.
[1:40:16] That's what she's doing. Yeah.
[1:40:17] Like the final conversation between Louise and Costello
[1:40:19] where everything gets revealed. The having a right old chin wag
[1:40:22] now. Can't shoot him up.
[1:40:23] Costello. Yeah.
[1:40:24] Exactly, Yeah. There are some interesting
[1:40:26] things come out though, like you say, Wesley Louise says who was
[1:40:28] this child about Hannah to spell it out to us these on
[1:40:31] flashbacks, Yeah. And then we say Hannah's made a
[1:40:33] hep to power a plaster scene. Yeah, great visual way of
[1:40:36] letting us. No, that's actually the future.
[1:40:37] Also, I find out the hectopods must have a pretty long
[1:40:39] lifespan. Costello says we need humanity's
[1:40:42] help in 3000 years, and as far as we know, Louise can only see
[1:40:45] in the future as far as she's alive.
[1:40:47] So Costello must live for over 3000 years in that case.
[1:40:50] What on earth we can help them with in 3000 years I've.
[1:40:53] No idea, we won't be here in 3000 years.
[1:40:56] Look at the state of us nowadays.
[1:40:58] Yeah, I mean, it's circular, so it could happen.
[1:41:00] Now they might just want to know how to make a pizza or
[1:41:02] something. I'm helping with that.
[1:41:05] Help with that? I like the wheel or anything
[1:41:07] circular that we've invented, basically.
[1:41:10] Either way, it looks in good nick.
[1:41:11] Well, isn't he 3000 years old? Looks.
[1:41:13] Really good. What's a sandwich?
[1:41:17] But it's a really good way to reveal everything.
[1:41:18] Final conversation between Costello and Louise where the
[1:41:21] language in the actual physical barriers no longer exist between
[1:41:24] them. Yeah, but has there been a
[1:41:25] cellar line anywhere than Costello saying Abbott is death
[1:41:28] process? Yeah, death process.
[1:41:30] Can't say that. So is Hannah, though.
[1:41:32] I think that's the sacrifice that everybody's made.
[1:41:34] So she is in death process. It is a process.
[1:41:36] It's always a process and it's always happening to everybody
[1:41:39] who don't quite know. And then from here you get the
[1:41:42] next flash forward, which is where it feels like the film's
[1:41:45] starting to twist the knife a bit here with this sense that
[1:41:48] something bigger is slowly being revealed.
[1:41:51] Here. There's this feeling that pieces
[1:41:53] are slowly being moved into shape and you but you're just
[1:41:56] not quite sure what they are because Louise has commented
[1:41:59] Hannah about her dad leaving that it's her fault.
[1:42:01] I told him something he wasn't ready to hear and he said I made
[1:42:04] the wrong choice. Which spiral alert.
[1:42:05] I'll come back to this. He's 100% correct.
[1:42:08] Oh well, just wait the other. This is one of Adam's strongest
[1:42:12] scenes, I think on repeat view and knowing what she's
[1:42:15] struggling with in that scene by the lake.
[1:42:16] And I really like how it transitions from that shot of
[1:42:19] her hook and Hannah to her collapse and Ian's arms.
[1:42:22] And it's a scene that's got that lovely ironic twist when she
[1:42:25] says, I remember now why my husband left me in his response.
[1:42:29] I didn't know you were married. Yeah, it's brilliant.
[1:42:31] That's great. So yeah, a lot going on in the
[1:42:33] scene on repeat viewings. Yeah, I miss my husband as well,
[1:42:35] she says. Doesn't she?
[1:42:36] Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty heartbreaking,
[1:42:38] doesn't it? Louise tell Hannah what's going
[1:42:40] to happen without being too explicit, obviously, but the way
[1:42:42] we're cutting between Louise and Hannah by the lake and the shots
[1:42:45] of the helicopters around the world taking up like strategic
[1:42:47] positions against the hectic party ships, that's really well
[1:42:50] put together. Every wide shot of the ships
[1:42:52] will see is stunning. Only now they've all got guns
[1:42:55] trained on them, which they also think that might be how it might
[1:42:58] actually play out. If this would have.
[1:43:00] Happened. Yeah.
[1:43:00] Depressing. Yeah, unfortunately so.
[1:43:04] A fairly depressing thought, but luckily Louise isn't done just
[1:43:07] yet. No, no, the climactic active
[1:43:11] arrival ties everything up. First Louise reveals the twist
[1:43:14] to Webber and US before China's military head General Shang,
[1:43:18] played by Z Ma, comes into effect.
[1:43:20] Using her new found prescience, Louise gets Shang's number,
[1:43:23] tells him his wife's dying words and saves everyone's skin.
[1:43:27] Or while having threatening to shoot her.
[1:43:29] Good guy. Yeah, that was all come together
[1:43:32] for you, Matt. I mean, there's a lot going on.
[1:43:34] The revelations are coming thick and fast, but I really love the
[1:43:38] fact that Louise learning Heptapod to me, that's a really
[1:43:41] great well walking first the chicken or the egg scenario.
[1:43:44] Does she suddenly learn Heptapod language there and then and it
[1:43:47] just clicks? Or is it because she sees
[1:43:50] herself in the future writing a book about it, teaching it, so
[1:43:52] she realizes, oh, I've known this all along, actually.
[1:43:55] Yeah. Like the ambiguity of that.
[1:43:57] I mean, don't think about it too much because I think your head
[1:43:59] is only going to end up hurting. I'll try to figure it out the
[1:44:01] other day. And I just couldn't get there.
[1:44:03] I'll be there as well. It's a nightmare.
[1:44:05] It's a nightmare. I ended up just thinking on the
[1:44:07] front cover of the book. That's just like a yin Yang.
[1:44:09] That's fine, I'll leave it there.
[1:44:13] And it's the same with the sudden revelation that they
[1:44:15] don't see time in a linear fashion.
[1:44:17] Again, That's quite a big leak to get to that point.
[1:44:20] But by this point, I'm fully on board with Anthony, Louise says,
[1:44:23] you know, she's completely more Nelson than I'll ever be, so
[1:44:26] that's fine. Adams completely sells it.
[1:44:28] But I love how when she's talking Rebel, I love his really
[1:44:31] understanded reaction. So we can learn Heptapod if we
[1:44:34] survive. Like, that's just his biggest
[1:44:37] level of thinking about this. Yeah.
[1:44:38] There's bigger things going on for him.
[1:44:40] You understand what his focus is.
[1:44:42] And I do like, again, he's not a completely cliched character.
[1:44:45] There is that sense at the end when he says goodbye to Louise
[1:44:47] and. And he does genuinely respect
[1:44:48] them for what they've done. And he does appreciate they've
[1:44:51] tried their best, but it's just events that are bigger than all
[1:44:53] of them here. Yeah.
[1:44:55] So the key kind of statement the heptapods give is there is no
[1:44:58] time. Use weapon by which they mean
[1:45:01] time's not as you think it is. Use the tool we've given you and
[1:45:04] you'll see what we mean. Yeah, Louise understands that.
[1:45:07] But the military translated like Independence Day, like time's
[1:45:10] up. We're going to blow you away.
[1:45:13] Too many role network films for helping.
[1:45:15] Yeah. But also I do quite enjoy the
[1:45:16] moment that Louise does confirm for our benefit mainly exactly
[1:45:19] what's going on. She sees to Weber the weapons,
[1:45:22] their language. If you really learn it, you
[1:45:23] start to perceive time like they do this like mind blowing
[1:45:27] revelation. And Weber couldn't give a
[1:45:29] monkeys. Just like whatever, see you
[1:45:32] later. Get on the helicopter.
[1:45:34] But the way it all ties in and get revealed at the end, it
[1:45:36] feels important, like the end of good films usually do.
[1:45:39] Yeah, I mean, it's all turned on its head.
[1:45:41] And we find out from this flash forward moment is a flash
[1:45:45] forward, isn't it? Right?
[1:45:46] Yeah, it is that Shang has something that he has to say,
[1:45:49] Louise, and actually is part of the audience as well.
[1:45:52] Now, this scene really has to hit.
[1:45:53] This scene really has to work. Otherwise everything falls
[1:45:56] apart. Yeah.
[1:45:57] I don't know how your mind works, but I know you need to
[1:45:59] hear this. And it's just the set design
[1:46:01] here. It's circular in the background.
[1:46:03] It's the warmth of the tungsten lights that's just leaning
[1:46:06] towards the flash forward. But kind of understand where
[1:46:08] this is going now. Everything's around as well.
[1:46:11] If you know, I was just about to say the jewellery is all
[1:46:12] circular. Everything's got a motif here
[1:46:15] and it really works. All the flags in the background
[1:46:17] are all the countries that have been on the screens.
[1:46:20] Everything kind of marries together at CMAR here.
[1:46:23] That really sells it, the way that he shows on the number
[1:46:26] whispers in her ear. I think it's really important
[1:46:28] that we don't know what was said.
[1:46:29] There wasn't subtitles on the screen, so we don't know what
[1:46:31] the wife's last words were. She was dying.
[1:46:34] But the more I think about it and go from a writing point of
[1:46:37] view, does that sell the end of the film?
[1:46:39] If someone rang you out of the blue and just said this is your
[1:46:41] wife's dying words, by the way, I think it would work.
[1:46:44] No matter who you are, you would stop what you're doing and go
[1:46:47] hold on a second. There's something else here.
[1:46:48] I buy it in the film. I totally buy it.
[1:46:51] So it needs to land and it does. And again, she's on the phone.
[1:46:54] I like the fact that it's, you know, the guy who's been causing
[1:46:56] the problems all the way through.
[1:46:58] It's his phone. He's left stuff lying around.
[1:47:00] Yeah, whose phone's that? It's yours.
[1:47:01] It's yours. Yeah.
[1:47:02] I love that he said we could find it Great.
[1:47:05] And this is the most Ian does in the whole film.
[1:47:07] And this sums up his character though, isn't it?
[1:47:09] By his 20 seconds. And he just, all he has to do is
[1:47:12] put himself between the gun, just puts himself up and
[1:47:15] sacrifices himself for the great good.
[1:47:17] That's all he can do. This whole final sequence needs
[1:47:19] to land. You need to buy it, it needs to
[1:47:21] work and it does all of them things.
[1:47:24] It absolutely does. Yeah.
[1:47:25] General Shang. Not to be confused with General
[1:47:28] Chang no the warmonger in Klingon played by Christopher
[1:47:30] Plummer in Star Trek 6, The Undiscovered Country.
[1:47:33] Oh, God forbid we get those two confused.
[1:47:35] I wouldn't worry about that for me.
[1:47:38] Love to see him in there quoting Shakespeare.
[1:47:40] The habit of pods. And I like that whole sequence
[1:47:43] of Louise telling Shang his wife's dying words.
[1:47:45] None of that's in the book. Shang isn't in the book at all.
[1:47:47] So Eric Heiser had to come up with a satisfying way to end
[1:47:50] things that works in the movie, and I think he does.
[1:47:52] Yeah. There's a bit of a general
[1:47:54] criticism the film gets around this time of China being
[1:47:57] presented as the bad guys. I get it, and I don't disagree
[1:48:00] with it, but I can get away with it because I don't think the US
[1:48:02] are presented as the good guys. I mean, Louise is, but the
[1:48:05] military are kind of personified by Halpin.
[1:48:07] He's like General Chang. Yeah.
[1:48:09] So he is, yeah. And I think, again, it's about
[1:48:11] community and language. If the Western world's moving
[1:48:14] faster and if America's Got the answers, it's going to be harder
[1:48:17] to translate that over. Yeah, definitely.
[1:48:20] Yeah. I do feel like the climactic
[1:48:21] scenes sag a little bit for me, not quite as streamlined as the
[1:48:24] rest of the film. Yeah, same.
[1:48:26] But after it's all sorted and we get the final wide shots of the
[1:48:28] alien ships all leaving, they disappear in that like Bale of
[1:48:31] cloud and smoke. Absolutely beautiful.
[1:48:33] Yeah, I love that. Hang them on your wall.
[1:48:35] Every time I look at clouds now I think are they're just going
[1:48:37] to come down again? Hope they do.
[1:48:40] Yeah, so we've mentioned Shang whispers his wife's final words
[1:48:44] in the Louise's ear and we don't hear what they are.
[1:48:46] But she said there's no subtitles.
[1:48:48] So Haisra had never actually wrote what the words were.
[1:48:51] But V Lev said room the the most important words in the film.
[1:48:54] You have to come up with something Haisra did.
[1:48:56] And V Lev wanted to keep it a secret, but Haisra just blabbed
[1:48:59] a couple of years later so that. Means great this check out what
[1:49:03] I've written SO. What Louise says to Shang is in
[1:49:07] war. There were no winners, only
[1:49:09] widows. Yeah, that works.
[1:49:12] Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, it's a good line.
[1:49:14] I mean, it's got to be satisfying what she says.
[1:49:16] And it is, I bet if you live with Furious or wanted to take
[1:49:19] it to his grave, by the sounds of it.
[1:49:21] Yeah. From there, we're into the final
[1:49:23] moment of the film, back at the start, where Louise and Ian are
[1:49:26] about to conceive Hannah the Danuma.
[1:49:30] Oh, it was all going so well. This is the moment where the
[1:49:34] film comes off the tracks for me because wow.
[1:49:37] OK. I just cannot wrap my head
[1:49:39] around Louise's decision here at all.
[1:49:42] To sleep with Ian. Well, yeah, come on.
[1:49:45] He's. Definitely punching.
[1:49:48] Nor to embark on a relationship that she knows will end in
[1:49:52] condemning a child to a horrible, painful, lingering
[1:49:55] death which will destroy Ian's life in the process.
[1:49:58] Particularly because she doesn't even give him a say in this
[1:50:01] decision. I just think it completely
[1:50:04] undoes her character. It makes her really selfish.
[1:50:06] And well, I've had this discussion with other people
[1:50:09] because it is divisive. I've seen this discussion online
[1:50:12] and we've mentioned the idea of predetermination, but I just
[1:50:14] don't think that works here because she has the premonition
[1:50:17] about Chang and his wife's dying words, but she still decides to
[1:50:22] make that call. She doesn't just go, Oh, well,
[1:50:24] that what's happening. She could have decided not to
[1:50:27] make that call. She decides to go through this
[1:50:29] with Ian and with Hannah. Yeah.
[1:50:32] And I just kind of comprehend why you would make that
[1:50:34] decision. It destroys so much good wealth
[1:50:36] got about the character. It really infuriates me.
[1:50:39] Wow. I mean, I can see where that's
[1:50:41] coming from, but at the same time, it's the message, isn't
[1:50:45] it? It's like you never know what's
[1:50:46] going to happen with anything. And if you did know what was
[1:50:48] going to happen, would you still want the joy that you had?
[1:50:51] Would you still want them to experience the life?
[1:50:54] Is it worth just living for a couple of years to experience
[1:50:57] that? We aren't wants to play God.
[1:50:59] I don't know. I've come to peace with that in
[1:51:01] certain ways and not read it as straight down the line as you
[1:51:05] have, Matt. I think if you look at it, step
[1:51:07] back from it a little bit, there might be something to get from
[1:51:09] it. But we'll, we'll get there.
[1:51:11] Yeah, OK. It's not just about Louise and
[1:51:13] Ian, is it? Especially to Louise, because to
[1:51:14] Louise, Hannah isn't something in the future.
[1:51:17] She remembers her. She's a real person in her head.
[1:51:20] I guess from her point of view, it is kind of like, how can I
[1:51:22] deny her the right to live? That's part of it as well, I
[1:51:24] think. I think that the last five
[1:51:26] minutes this could be appeared on episode all under its own,
[1:51:28] could be like 50 minutes just on the last five minutes in
[1:51:31] Louise's decision, but I just cannot agree with it at all and
[1:51:35] it just ends on such a sour note for me.
[1:51:38] Either way, I think the venue Mont brilliant.
[1:51:43] Fuck you man. I mean, Veal Nerve basically
[1:51:46] plays the opening again in terms of the shot of Louise's huge
[1:51:49] window, but then plays the whole thing out.
[1:51:50] And now with what we now know, all of it makes sense.
[1:51:53] It is the night and I was conceived.
[1:51:55] I can't believe they didn't name a habit.
[1:51:56] That's outrageous but stunning storytelling for me.
[1:52:00] What I love most, though, is definitely Ian's line to Louise.
[1:52:04] I've had my head tilted with the stars most of my life.
[1:52:07] You know what surprised me the most?
[1:52:08] It wasn't meeting them. It was meeting you.
[1:52:11] Yeah, I've been waiting for this guy to turn off.
[1:52:14] What a line that is. Unbelievable.
[1:52:17] That's like I came across time for you, Sir, from the
[1:52:19] Terminator. You know Heptapod, but he
[1:52:22] doesn't know the language you love.
[1:52:24] How could you turn that down? Yeah, definitely.
[1:52:26] And I like it when Louise's book has delivered at the end the
[1:52:28] universal language about learning Heptapod.
[1:52:30] Mainly because it reminds me of George McFly getting a match
[1:52:33] made in space. At the end of About the Future,
[1:52:35] yeah. And then we end with the title
[1:52:37] logo coming on the screen, which looks great, and it's the same
[1:52:40] we saw at the start to signify this kind of circle, the
[1:52:42] narrative, the film has just a great way to end things.
[1:52:45] Yeah, I mean, to take the sting out the tail for Matt.
[1:52:48] I know it's if you look at it from that point of view, but the
[1:52:50] whole film has been telling you that if you learn a different
[1:52:53] language, then it rewires your brain to think completely
[1:52:55] differently. So if she chooses to have Hannah
[1:52:57] anyway, she has her in a circular narrative, she has her
[1:53:00] in a circular time. She never ever dies.
[1:53:02] There's no start, there's no end.
[1:53:03] She's always going to be with her.
[1:53:05] She can visit at any time that she wants to.
[1:53:07] She visited Shang when she wanted to.
[1:53:09] She can visit Hannah when she wants to.
[1:53:10] Hannah always going to be alive to her.
[1:53:12] Ian cannot speak the language and he won't be able to have
[1:53:15] that, which is why he left. That's what I get from it
[1:53:17] anyway. And I see that as a selfish
[1:53:19] thing. There's no beginning and there's
[1:53:21] no end. It's circular.
[1:53:22] So Hannah doesn't necessarily die and that's why she chooses
[1:53:25] to do it. Because in this timeline, now
[1:53:27] that she can speak Epipod, she doesn't lose Hannah.
[1:53:30] She's always there with her. She can see her whenever she
[1:53:32] wants to. In other words, Ian's been
[1:53:34] screwed right over, hasn't he? Just learn the language, read
[1:53:38] the book. Thing that's my issues.
[1:53:40] I used to have described it better than the film does
[1:53:43] because I'll just take it as yes screw IANS feelings he doesn't
[1:53:46] get to say in this. Yeah.
[1:53:47] It would take just twisting one line of dialogue to say and I
[1:53:50] told you, father and we both decided it would be worth it.
[1:53:53] Yeah. But I think it's a better story,
[1:53:56] isn't it, the way they do it? It is because it's not a
[1:53:58] decision that she's made. Literally she under been the
[1:54:01] argument when they first meet. It's a discussion between
[1:54:03] language and science and he chooses science and that makes
[1:54:05] her selfish. She chooses language and she
[1:54:08] understands. If he swallowed his science and
[1:54:10] swallowed his pride and learned the language the same way that
[1:54:12] she did, he can experience Hannah circularly and not in a
[1:54:16] linear fashion and therefore always be with her.
[1:54:18] Learn the language, Ian. There you go.
[1:54:20] But then Hannah still dies horribly.
[1:54:22] You've still got a dead child. In a linear timeline.
[1:54:25] Yeah, which is Honda's timeline, yeah.
[1:54:26] But who doesn't die horribly? Math.
[1:54:29] Who truly lives? Who truly lives here?
[1:54:31] Who doesn't die horribly? Do you know what I mean?
[1:54:34] It is a choice that you make when you have children.
[1:54:36] It is a gamble that you'd make. It is a choice.
[1:54:38] Oh, of course, yeah. When you're alive, it's a choice
[1:54:40] that you make every day to walk out the front door, turn left,
[1:54:42] turn right across the street. It's like, well, if you knew
[1:54:45] what was going to happen, would you choose love over pain?
[1:54:47] And she chose love over pain because she could have that love
[1:54:49] whenever she wanted it until her death.
[1:54:52] And if we all lived circularly and didn't think about the
[1:54:54] ending, would appreciate where we are now.
[1:54:57] Appreciate where you are in your timeline and don't worry about
[1:54:59] what's coming at the end because it's all circular anyway.
[1:55:02] Again, you've just explained it better than the film managed us
[1:55:04] to do, which is the problem for me.
[1:55:06] Yeah, I mean, I've watched it like 19 times, I mean.
[1:55:09] I think the film that does this kind of ended in a much more
[1:55:12] thought provoking me. Eternal Sunshine.
[1:55:14] The spotless Mind. Yeah, it's a very similar vibe,
[1:55:17] Yeah. Is that completely predetermined
[1:55:18] that Joel and Clementine were always destined to be together?
[1:55:21] Yeah, it does this to me. Just misses them all completely
[1:55:23] and puts a real shadow on Louise's character.
[1:55:26] Yeah, I think this is just a lot more subtle and a lot more.
[1:55:28] Find your own answers if you really want me.
[1:55:30] And I think that's what Phil knew was trying to do with it.
[1:55:32] Yeah, it's a shame she won't live, but in the end, who does?
[1:55:35] Exactly. In the flash boards towards the
[1:55:38] end of the film, Ian calls Hannah star stuff.
[1:55:41] This is a reference to Cosmos, the famous documentary about
[1:55:44] space by Carl Sagan, where Sagan says the nitrogen in our DNA and
[1:55:48] the calcium in our teeth were made in the interiors of
[1:55:50] collapsing stars. We are made of star stuff.
[1:55:54] He's got all the lines now, yeah, doesn't he?
[1:55:55] What? Do you mean by that Dad?
[1:55:58] Doesn't matter, don't clean your teeth.
[1:56:01] I've worked on you, ma'am. That's all you need to know.
[1:56:04] That's not in the book either. So another nice edition from
[1:56:06] Haisara. Yeah, that's really nice.
[1:56:07] I love that. I'm going to start using that.
[1:56:09] In Haisara's original script doesn't actually end with a
[1:56:11] heptapods language being their gift, but what they do is they
[1:56:14] give humans the technology to create interstellar travel
[1:56:17] instead. But around the time the script
[1:56:19] was being finalized, Christopher Nolan made obviously
[1:56:22] Interstellar and they thought it was just too similar.
[1:56:25] So the change to what we see in the film.
[1:56:27] Right. Yeah, originally the different
[1:56:29] nations were given different gifts. the US got faster than
[1:56:32] light travel, like you say, right?
[1:56:33] China were given like a really advanced life support machine.
[1:56:36] OK, surely it has to be the language, though, doesn't it?
[1:56:39] That's what the whole film's been about.
[1:56:40] Yeah. Thematically, it sticks.
[1:56:41] Yeah, yeah. And with that it's role credits
[1:56:44] and arrival is done. All stories wrapped up,
[1:56:47] including Louise's personal narrative with the Heptapods and
[1:56:50] Humanities Wider 1 and a nice twist.
[1:56:53] A satisfying way to finish for me university.
[1:56:57] It's a satisfying way to finish for anyone.
[1:56:58] If you watch a film 20 times. Reception under wards.
[1:57:08] And that is the story of the life of a rival.
[1:57:11] Almost. The film was widely released on
[1:57:14] November the 11th, 2016. How do they do?
[1:57:17] Well, our own theoretical physicist, Matt is.
[1:57:20] He had to tell us. So go for it, Matt.
[1:57:22] Bold claim that. So Arrival.
[1:57:25] It was made for a production budget of $47 million and of
[1:57:29] course 100.5 million domestically and $203.4 million
[1:57:34] worldwide. So obviously a very, very decent
[1:57:37] return for highbrow sci-fi film. Yeah, definitely.
[1:57:41] Marketing would have been into that 30 or so, a million, I
[1:57:43] guess. So tidy profit.
[1:57:46] Critics wise, it's very pretty well too.
[1:57:48] Roger. Eva was no longer with us by
[1:57:50] 2016. He completed the death process
[1:57:52] very sadly, but his memory lives on and is still popular website.
[1:57:57] So what did Brian Talarico of rogerebert.com give a rival out
[1:58:01] of four? I mean, I don't know who
[1:58:03] Talarico. Is or what his taste is, which?
[1:58:06] Is the problem. I'll say 4 because it was loved
[1:58:08] when it came out. 3 1/2. It was three stars out of four,
[1:58:12] OK, right? And he said Arrival is more
[1:58:14] about grief, time, communication and compassionate than it is
[1:58:18] Warp speed. And it's a film that asks
[1:58:19] questions. Why is it important to
[1:58:21] communicate through language and not action?
[1:58:24] A movie that gets too sterile at times, but Adams is always there
[1:58:27] to ground it in. One of the most subtle sci-fi
[1:58:29] movie performances I've ever seen.
[1:58:31] Yeah, agree with Brian. Yeah, I do, yeah.
[1:58:34] Yeah, it is the sort of performance from Amy Adams,
[1:58:36] isn't it? Yeah.
[1:58:37] All right. The Guardian rated Arrival of
[1:58:39] the third best film of 2016 and Mark Commode gave the film four
[1:58:43] stars out of five, saying a rival is a class act.
[1:58:46] From its cool, minimalist opening to its poignant mind
[1:58:49] bending finale, it's a Zen sci-fi thriller that's more
[1:58:52] about mood and mind than time and space.
[1:58:56] It is a touch of class, isn't it?
[1:58:57] It is. It's a very classy film.
[1:58:59] Via Lev Adams, Bradford Young, Johann Johansson.
[1:59:02] Class Acts. Yeah, and it's it just hasn't
[1:59:04] aged at all if you watch it now. Probably more relevant this year
[1:59:08] considering the message of just. Let's just communicate a bit
[1:59:10] better about stuff, eh? It's getting more relevant
[1:59:12] every. It is, sadly, yeah.
[1:59:16] And Empire magazine gave the film the full whack of five
[1:59:19] stars out of five and said Arrival is a beautifully
[1:59:22] polished puzzle box. And like all the best sci-fi, it
[1:59:25] has something to say about today's world, particularly the
[1:59:27] importance of communication and how we need to transcend
[1:59:30] cultural divides and misconceptions if we're to
[1:59:33] survive as a species. Oh yeah, wise word from empire
[1:59:36] there. Yep, Dan Jordan that was.
[1:59:38] Very nice. And then today on Rotten
[1:59:40] Tomatoes, Arrival has an 82% audience approval rating and a
[1:59:45] big old 94% from critics. Well then on IMDb it is 7.9 out
[1:59:50] of 10. And then at the Oscars,
[1:59:52] nominated for Edwards in total, as we've said, winning only one,
[1:59:56] which was Best Sound Editing for Sylvan Bellamere.
[1:59:59] A critics darling, not quite so much with audiences.
[2:00:02] Is that fairly typical for Via Nerve?
[2:00:04] Do you think I. Think so.
[2:00:06] I think so, yeah, most of the time.
[2:00:08] Something as weighty as this. I think he was going to tick
[2:00:10] more boxes for the critics, wasn't it?
[2:00:12] Then you started in a crowd. I don't think he ever goes for
[2:00:15] ticket sales. He's just not interested in
[2:00:17] that. He's interested in leaving
[2:00:18] behind the legacy and being incredibly.
[2:00:20] Of course. Honest towards that, I think,
[2:00:22] and honest towards his craft. So Arrival did well in its
[2:00:26] release, especially for a high brow super evil science fiction
[2:00:29] film. Big return to the box office,
[2:00:30] some award success and still highly thought of today.
[2:00:33] Has it been Fred Fairly, do you think?
[2:00:35] I think so. I think so, yeah.
[2:00:37] Overall, yeah. Yeah, highly thought of.
[2:00:42] Sequels and influence. There was never talk of a sequel
[2:00:47] to Arrival, unsurprisingly villain who've never had any
[2:00:50] intention of making one. I guess there are some places
[2:00:52] that could have went. We don't really see the societal
[2:00:55] effects of the Heptapods arrival on Earth or Arrival 23000 years
[2:00:59] later to see why they need our help.
[2:01:01] Would you like a sequel? Yeah, in 3000 years time and I'm
[2:01:03] not here to see it. You'll be.
[2:01:07] Yeah, Westy. So non linear you remember.
[2:01:11] It's non linear. I'll still be around.
[2:01:12] I'll be in that life support thing that the Chinese has got.
[2:01:17] Like in The Big Lebowski? Yeah, like the I in love just
[2:01:22] talking shit and getting fed chow man.
[2:01:27] How about the impact the films had though?
[2:01:28] What is the influence and legacy of a rival, do we think?
[2:01:31] I think it's legacy is that this was V Love's real breakthrough
[2:01:35] to the mainstream, as mainstream as this film can get.
[2:01:38] To be honest. If he hadn't done this or if
[2:01:41] this film was flopped, would he have been given any opportunity
[2:01:44] to adapt you, especially in the way he wants to do it?
[2:01:47] I wouldn't have thought so at all.
[2:01:49] And then I think it just also stands out as one of Amy Adams's
[2:01:52] finest performances. I mean, she's got a lot to
[2:01:55] choose from, she's that good, but this is absolutely up there
[2:01:58] with the very best she's ever done.
[2:01:59] So I think those two in particular got the most out of
[2:02:02] this film, and I think that's where his legacy lies.
[2:02:05] Yeah, for a film that didn't make huge waves on its release
[2:02:08] necessarily, I do think Arrivals had a sizable impact.
[2:02:11] The influence on veiling of career, like you say, Matt, is
[2:02:13] obvious, but also the way it goes about it.
[2:02:16] This is artistic, highbrow science fiction.
[2:02:19] It explores an event which has every chance of happening at
[2:02:21] some point in extraterrestrial first contact, possibly in our
[2:02:24] lifetimes, who knows? And it does it with
[2:02:26] intelligence. I do wonder if this film would
[2:02:28] have been made if not for the influence of Christopher Nolan
[2:02:31] this century. I suspect not, but cerebral
[2:02:34] science fiction is still a niche which is nowhere near full
[2:02:36] enough for me. I get why, because science
[2:02:39] fiction by it's nature always costs money because he usually
[2:02:41] needs special effects. But Arrival proves if you do it
[2:02:44] well, with a talented film maker and talent cast and crew, you
[2:02:48] can make something which has autistic mirrors and which makes
[2:02:51] money. Hopefully we'll see a lot more
[2:02:52] of it from Vile Nerve. And it does.
[2:02:54] And hopefully that becomes it's legacy.
[2:02:56] I'm not holding my breath, but I hope it does.
[2:02:58] No. Yeah, I think this is just going
[2:03:00] to keep finding a new audience. Like we've said, this is even
[2:03:03] more relevant now than it was when it came out because it has
[2:03:06] this timeless message of humanity.
[2:03:08] And it boils it down to what is it to be human and what is it to
[2:03:11] be important and what is time? And all of them things are in
[2:03:13] themselves timeless. It's the message more than the
[2:03:16] spectacle, and I think that's always going to land with people
[2:03:19] and it's always going to be relevant and it's always going
[2:03:22] to find an audience with every new generation.
[2:03:24] I think that's what Vilnius has done with his whole career.
[2:03:27] He's just waiting and the audience is going to find his
[2:03:29] work. He's doing what's honest to him
[2:03:31] and that's where it's going to lie.
[2:03:32] So I think that's its legacy and its influence.
[2:03:35] I mean, there was a fair few science fiction films that came
[2:03:38] off the back of it, but nothing that really kind of came close
[2:03:41] apart from the likes of High Life, You know, that came out a
[2:03:44] couple of years afterwards, which was a pretty good film.
[2:03:47] But again, you could see this was written all over that.
[2:03:50] Yeah. And again, you know, that trying
[2:03:52] to take the message over the spectacle and trying to do
[2:03:54] something that has a real visual kind of punch to it.
[2:03:57] And I think that's what feeling you have done is like, you know,
[2:03:59] you don't need a lot. Goes hand in hand with Nolan to
[2:04:01] work for me. Well, we've got our 3rd and
[2:04:04] finally, it's your MP. One question now, and I think
[2:04:06] the legacy of the film is as good a place for it as any.
[2:04:09] Yeah, it comes from George Anderson.
[2:04:11] Hello, George. Hello, George.
[2:04:12] Hello, George. Now, George has been one of our
[2:04:14] patrons for as long as Costello's been alive, so he
[2:04:17] knows a thing or two. Yeah, 3000 years.
[2:04:20] And he is asking, does ATRM believe aliens exist?
[2:04:23] And if so, have any films come close?
[2:04:26] Like debating how each of you imagined they would appear to
[2:04:28] humans? Right.
[2:04:30] The big question, Matt, what do you think?
[2:04:33] What's your purpose for this one, Matt?
[2:04:35] Oh God. What's my purpose in anything?
[2:04:37] So you took a dog chair in there?
[2:04:40] We switched roles in this pod. I find it hard to imagine that
[2:04:46] in the whole universe out there, there's not some kind of life
[2:04:48] existing and thriving somewhere. Is it intelligent life?
[2:04:53] Yeah. I don't know.
[2:04:54] That's a big reach. I'm not intelligent enough to
[2:04:56] try and work that out. But do I think they've been
[2:04:59] visiting Earth in spaceships? No, not really.
[2:05:01] I just think there'd be some kind of concrete proof one way
[2:05:04] or the other. But for the sake of the
[2:05:05] question, let's see. I did.
[2:05:07] In terms of to their depiction, it's a tricky 1 because I think
[2:05:10] that's just been entirely informed by movies and TV.
[2:05:13] Anywhere you know, little green men, grey aliens with big black
[2:05:17] eyes from The X-Files. Like anything I can think of.
[2:05:20] I've got them, yeah. It's only because of popular
[2:05:22] culture anywhere I've kind of haven't got this ID in me head
[2:05:26] and the films come along go wow, already kind of implanted in my
[2:05:29] head from what I've seen. So you know, they would have to
[2:05:31] have arms and limbs and opposable films because that's
[2:05:34] how you make things. That's how you build things.
[2:05:35] So if I had to pick one film, the Order, George's Question, I
[2:05:38] would say it is probably close Encounters to me, if they'll
[2:05:41] land tomorrow, that's what I think the would look like.
[2:05:44] Classic. Yeah, classic.
[2:05:45] Yeah, I mean, I could talk about this all night, to be honest.
[2:05:48] I have on occasion. Yeah, I know you have.
[2:05:51] We've heard it all before. I know.
[2:05:53] This time though, don't worry, I was going to start talking about
[2:05:55] the Drake equation in the Fermi paradox and start putting
[2:05:58] everyone to sleep. Oh, you're not gonna do.
[2:06:01] I mean, the short answer is that we don't know if aliens exist.
[2:06:04] Obviously I know, but we can't even guess because we don't know
[2:06:07] enough about the universe. We don't know if we're like a
[2:06:10] miraculous freak of nature on Earth, set here out there with
[2:06:13] their huge telescopes looking for signals, and have been for
[2:06:16] decades. But apparently if the observable
[2:06:19] universe is the size of every ocean on Earth, the amount of
[2:06:22] space set that you've searched is like a bathtub.
[2:06:24] So next to nothing. Wow.
[2:06:26] The answer essentially is either the universe is teeming with
[2:06:28] life or we are all alone. That's for George's second
[2:06:31] question in which film depicts aliens best.
[2:06:34] The film about first contact I think is most interesting is
[2:06:37] Contact by Robert Zemeckis. Have you've seen that?
[2:06:39] Yeah, there's a lot of that in Arrival as well.
[2:06:41] I think there's a lot of I. Think so, Yeah.
[2:06:43] Yeah, there is. It's based on a novel by Carl
[2:06:45] Sagan, who we mentioned. And at the end of that, Jodie
[2:06:47] Foster's character meets aliens, and they appear as their dead
[2:06:50] father on a beach. Because they say that's the only
[2:06:52] way we can really conceive of what they are.
[2:06:54] Yeah. And that's the thing.
[2:06:56] We've been around as humans for 300,000 years.
[2:06:58] About the universe is 13.7 billion years old.
[2:07:03] So like, imagine showing a human from, like, the 1800s, an
[2:07:05] iPhone. Yeah.
[2:07:06] Don't know what a phone is, don't know what ATV is or what a
[2:07:09] computer is. That literally wouldn't be able
[2:07:10] to conceive of what we were showing them.
[2:07:12] And that's 200 years. An alien species could be 13
[2:07:16] billion years ahead of us. So what could that look like?
[2:07:18] God knows. So from that point of view,
[2:07:20] contact's interesting. And that it could be something
[2:07:23] we can't even conceive of. But either way, one of my
[2:07:26] favorite ever quote is from Arthur C Clarke, who wrote 2001
[2:07:29] with Stanley Kubrick. And he said two possibilities
[2:07:32] exist. Either we are alone in the
[2:07:33] universe or we are not. Both possibilities are equally
[2:07:37] terrifying. Yeah.
[2:07:38] That I agree with. Yeah.
[2:07:39] Yeah, great. You mentioned contact there,
[2:07:41] that mirror shot at the start of contacts.
[2:07:42] Absolutely. Your.
[2:07:43] Best Brilliant. Of.
[2:07:47] Course they exist, man. Fucking everywhere.
[2:07:53] I'd love to think that they do, because I love stuff like this
[2:07:55] and I would love to have that level of excitement.
[2:07:58] It's why do you believe in ghosts?
[2:08:00] I'd know, but I'd love to. You must have seen something by
[2:08:03] now. It's always just interesting.
[2:08:05] That's Area 51 and they're under the ground and they've landed
[2:08:07] before and they're keeping them a secret and that's just
[2:08:10] exciting, isn't it? And that's again, probably so
[2:08:14] childish to any kind of race that comes to this world and
[2:08:17] just 'cause they think that we like to hide, not oh God, let's
[2:08:21] just leave this place alone. I.
[2:08:23] Know, yeah. There's a really good cartoon
[2:08:25] where they just say Jesus on the cross and it's like he died for
[2:08:28] our sins. People worship and they're just
[2:08:29] like, yeah, let's get the fuck out of here.
[2:08:31] This one, they do their own people.
[2:08:33] It's like maybe if they're observing when they're singing
[2:08:36] how batshit we are and they just want no part of it whatsoever.
[2:08:39] Maybe that's an element of it because I don't even want to be
[2:08:41] here. But for me and keeping that kind
[2:08:43] of fantasy alive, the one that really tapped in with me was
[2:08:47] They live. Oh yeah, put the shades on and
[2:08:50] they're already here. But they're so clever that they
[2:08:53] can just manipulate how we think what we do and we are under
[2:08:56] control. Maybe they are here and we don't
[2:08:58] know about it. And I love that concept that
[2:09:00] maybe they are here and they always have been.
[2:09:02] The X-Files was a massive influence.
[2:09:05] Signs I think was really terrifying.
[2:09:07] Like if they landed, would it be that kind of vibe to it?
[2:09:11] And Mac and me, obviously. That's kind of what David I say
[2:09:16] is Wesley, if you want to get in these theories.
[2:09:17] I mean, his theories, I'm not into these theories.
[2:09:19] I'm aware of them. Lizard people and all that.
[2:09:23] If it does happen, terrifying, like you said, John, if it
[2:09:25] doesn't terrify him. But you know, if it's all
[2:09:27] circular, at least that's a little bit of a hug.
[2:09:29] No sequels to Arrival then I'm sure there won't ever be for the
[2:09:32] best most likely. Yes, thank God.
[2:09:34] But in being the new Villeneuve's first foray into
[2:09:36] science fiction, and progressing his career and improving, there
[2:09:39] is a market for thoughtful science fiction.
[2:09:42] It does have significance. And aliens?
[2:09:45] Who the hell knows? We might find out.
[2:09:47] If you're picking up this transmission somewhere side of
[2:09:50] the period, all the right movies ranking.
[2:09:58] And we have arrived at the end or the beginning.
[2:10:01] Hello and welcome to All the Right Movies.
[2:10:05] I'm not really sure anymore, but either way, this is the moment
[2:10:08] we each give a rival our final scores out of 10.
[2:10:11] Yeah. So Westeeta stars off your
[2:10:13] summary and score for a rival please.
[2:10:15] I mean, I do find this one quite hard to rank, like I said at the
[2:10:17] start and the end, but I mean, ultimately I'm not going to
[2:10:20] really wax lyrical about it. There is bits where it does get
[2:10:23] a bit bumpy and it drops us out, namely the explosion, namely
[2:10:26] them bits coming into it. It kind of loses traction.
[2:10:28] It gets a little bit thin and it comes back at the end and you
[2:10:30] have to really buy it. And that's fantastic and it
[2:10:32] works for me, but you can't lose the audience at that point.
[2:10:36] It's not as strong consistently all the way through, I will say
[2:10:39] that. But it does inspire me
[2:10:41] especially to live my life to the best that I can, no matter
[2:10:44] what may happen. It shows us the moment, and that
[2:10:47] moment will come. No matter how hard you fight, it
[2:10:49] is going to happen. So just live the best you can
[2:10:52] until you can't. And that's what I get from this
[2:10:54] and I walk away from it. And I like that feeling.
[2:10:56] And I think the joy you feel when you're alive is far more
[2:10:59] important than the loss you feel when it's gone.
[2:11:01] And you've just really got to embrace that and enjoy all of
[2:11:03] the little things and enjoy all of the love that's around at the
[2:11:06] minute. Because when it's gone, it is
[2:11:07] gone. So you have to stop for a
[2:11:08] second. And this film makes me stop.
[2:11:10] And for that, I really appreciate it.
[2:11:13] It's always going to be there. It's always going to be
[2:11:15] interesting for people to dive into this and pull something
[2:11:17] from it. And I think for a film to have
[2:11:19] that kind of message and not be cliched and cheesy is really,
[2:11:22] really important. And for something to stop people
[2:11:24] in the tracks and make them appreciate that they're alive is
[2:11:26] incredibly important to do as well.
[2:11:28] From a film point of view, yeah, it does dip a bit in the
[2:11:30] narrative, so I kind of give it full marks, but I am going to
[2:11:32] give it a very, very solid and very, very happy 9 out of 10.
[2:11:36] Very nice. Well, like I said at the start,
[2:11:38] I was very excited by the prospect of this film when I
[2:11:41] first heard it was in development resource material
[2:11:43] and directed by a filmmaker who proved in prisoners in Sicario
[2:11:46] that he looks for the truth in his films.
[2:11:49] But I've been there before. We all have his film fans many
[2:11:52] times and been disappointed. Not so with Arrival.
[2:11:54] I loved it when I first saw it and on re watches it has got
[2:11:58] better. If anything it's got just about
[2:12:00] everything I want in a science fiction film.
[2:12:02] It's original and that visits a classic sub genre alien first
[2:12:05] contact but does it with a fresh angle.
[2:12:07] It's highly intelligent and I explores themes around language,
[2:12:10] around communication, around perception and more.
[2:12:14] It's touching and levels genuine warmth and heartfelt moments
[2:12:17] mainly through Amy Adams who is fantastic in the lead.
[2:12:21] And it's artistic. The filmmaking craft is
[2:12:23] sensational at times. The cinematography from Bradford
[2:12:26] Young is non-stop stunning, the music from Johann Johansson and
[2:12:29] Max Richter near perfection and the writing from Eric Heiser.
[2:12:33] I think it's up there among the greatest adaptations I've seen.
[2:12:36] And obviously above all that, Aston E Villeneuve, one of the
[2:12:39] great science fiction film makers out there for me, and
[2:12:41] this is my favorite of his. Throwing a chat up line for me.
[2:12:44] And it still wouldn't have been topped in 3000 years.
[2:12:47] And you've got one of my favorite films of the century.
[2:12:50] Not quite full marks, and I do think the ending isn't as tight
[2:12:53] as I'd like, but it's not far off 9.5 for me.
[2:12:56] Nice. And Matt, to take us to the end
[2:13:00] of a start. Take your pick Your summary and
[2:13:03] score for Arrival please. I'll do them all.
[2:13:06] It is frustrating for me, this film because so much of it is
[2:13:09] brilliant. The central idea, I love it, the
[2:13:11] look of it, the sound of it, the performances, particularly for
[2:13:14] Amy Adams. Add all that up in the 1st 2/3
[2:13:17] of this film is sealing their way towards being a masterpiece
[2:13:20] and the film absolutely takes a big swing, but it just doesn't
[2:13:24] quite connect at the end. I hit that home one that I
[2:13:26] really wanted to. There are some moments that the
[2:13:29] narrative needs, but how they've been put on screen feel a bit
[2:13:32] contrived. From top.
[2:13:33] Add the explosion and I just think the end of needs a little
[2:13:36] bit more clarity as to what's going on, not to be as ambiguous
[2:13:40] as it is. But I will just stick to my guns
[2:13:42] in that the decision that Louise makes at the end, I can't get on
[2:13:46] board with at least me feeling very deflated.
[2:13:49] And again, I'll just say it again, I think we've discussed
[2:13:51] it in a better way than the film manages to put it on screen,
[2:13:54] which is a shame. If we do say so, why not palace
[2:14:00] sales on the back? We've had a.
[2:14:01] Lot more time. If they did that, it'll be a 2
[2:14:03] hour ending. It's magnet because so much of
[2:14:05] the film in bits deserves a better score, but taking it all
[2:14:08] together, it balances out. I didn't eat it for me.
[2:14:11] Right, OK. So we also put this out there to
[2:14:15] our ex, formerly Twitter followers, to get their thoughts
[2:14:17] on Arrival. So Janine Curran at Janine
[2:14:20] Returns said, as a language nerd, I love that Arrival
[2:14:23] highlighted one of the most overlooked and interesting
[2:14:26] aspects of First Contact. How do two different species
[2:14:29] communicate? Nice.
[2:14:30] And as a mother, the deeper message of this movie is perhaps
[2:14:32] the most beautiful in all of cinema.
[2:14:35] Yeah. I mean, that blend of science,
[2:14:37] not it's something we've been talking about and something I
[2:14:39] think Arrival does do. Well.
[2:14:40] Yeah, Hugh Parker at UP 1970 said I hadn't watched this movie
[2:14:45] until a month ago and was blown away by Adam's performance.
[2:14:49] Hadn't quite figured out the time fractured narrative by the
[2:14:51] end of it, but was aware there was something there.
[2:14:54] Watched it again the next night and it all fell into place.
[2:14:57] Brilliant movie. Yeah.
[2:14:59] Wonder if he was still watching it every night.
[2:15:01] That's his life now. Just a rival every night and one
[2:15:06] of our patrons, Thomas Boyd said.
[2:15:08] Love the film and its concept. The idea that language is the
[2:15:11] key to how we perceive the universe is fantastic and well
[2:15:14] executed. And if I had to remove points I
[2:15:16] would only do so because the filming feels a bit too dark to
[2:15:19] me. Sorry Westie.
[2:15:21] So 9.5 all. Right, fine.
[2:15:23] Don't be sorry. Be better.
[2:15:28] It's not dark enough for you and imagine it's like smarting.
[2:15:31] Right, you see all the faces? And everything so mostly
[2:15:33] positive from our followers and patrons.
[2:15:35] And all together they rate the film as What Do You think out of
[2:15:38] 10? I'll see a nine.
[2:15:39] I'll go 9.5. It was 8.58.5.
[2:15:45] Wow. OK.
[2:15:45] Yeah. So in total, like it was a rival
[2:15:48] 35 out of 40. OK, right.
[2:15:50] A good score for cerebral science fiction.
[2:15:52] Yes, very good score. And that's that on arrival.
[2:15:55] Hopefully you think we did better than the last guy.
[2:15:57] I'll let you understood us at least next time out.
[2:16:01] Luke, Westie and Matt have got a 2D head start.
[2:16:04] You've got friends in every village from yet to the sedan,
[2:16:06] speak a dozen languages, know every local custom.
[2:16:09] They'll blend in, disappear. You'll never see them again with
[2:16:12] any look. They've got the Grail already.
[2:16:14] Imagine if after that, not the Last Crusade.
[2:16:19] But no, I'll follow us. Chose wisely.
[2:16:21] Next time. It is Indiana Jones and the Last
[2:16:24] Crusade, Yeah. Anybody here speak English?
[2:16:28] Or even ancient Greek, I'm already excited for that one.
[2:16:32] You are obviously Westie. I'm over the fucking moon.
[2:16:34] I kind of wait for that one, yeah.
[2:16:37] Well, in the meantime, to find out more about becoming a
[2:16:39] Patreon, supporting what we do, and accessing our archive and
[2:16:42] bonus episodes, please visit patreon.com/all the right movies
[2:16:46] or you can subscribe on Spotify Apple Podcast too.
[2:16:49] Also, please follow us on the podcast platform of your choice.
[2:16:52] And if you could leave a five star reviewing Apple podcast,
[2:16:55] that really helps us out. Yes, it really does.
[2:16:57] And Spotify as well. And Spotify and Spotify allows
[2:17:00] comments too, so it gets took in.
[2:17:01] We will answer them. Yeah, we're around.
[2:17:03] Got nothing else to do. Yeah, yeah.
[2:17:05] We're white boards. Yeah, socially, you can keep up
[2:17:08] with all the Right Movies on Twitter or X, wherever you're
[2:17:10] at. AT Right Movies, we post threads
[2:17:12] on there that tell the stories behind classic films where
[2:17:14] everything we post has been said by somebody involved in the
[2:17:17] production or come from three separate sources, which is the
[2:17:20] same as our podcast. So you should check that out.
[2:17:23] You can find us on YouTube at youtube.com/all the Right
[2:17:26] Movies. We also post those threads on
[2:17:28] Blue Sky and we're at All the Right movies.com.
[2:17:31] On TikTok, we're at All the Right movies.
[2:17:33] On Instagram and Threads. We are at all the under score
[2:17:36] right movies. We have a movie group on
[2:17:38] Facebook which is full of lots of great people and great film
[2:17:41] charts, so go join that. You may need to borrow Louisa's
[2:17:44] book to make sense of some of it.
[2:17:46] But it's worth it. It is worth it, yeah.
[2:17:49] And our website, full of great features, is all the right
[2:17:51] movies.com. We are everywhere.
[2:17:53] Yeah. Try and avoid with.
[2:17:55] It's going to get. That's more difficult than
[2:17:57] getting involved, surely? Turning up in 12 spaceships,
[2:18:02] we're all off now to have coffee with some aliens and see if Matt
[2:18:05] can teach Westy in me Ian's language of love, which he knows
[2:18:08] so well. I'll teach you my language of
[2:18:10] love if you want. Surely you don't want to miss
[2:18:14] the Last Crusade? Definitely not.
[2:18:16] It's going to be hilarious. So come back for that and for
[2:18:19] now, thanks for listening. Yes, thank you for listening
[2:18:21] guys. Massively appreciate it.
[2:18:22] Take care out there.

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