# Blade Runner 2049 (2017) | Ep. 61 - Part 1

An episode of [All The Right Movies](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1471502633), 18 Jul 2025, 1 h 20 min.

Audio: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/APO9230267656.mp3

Thirty-five years on, somebody dared to make the sequel. John, Westy, and Matt begin the story of how Denis Villeneuve followed a sacred cow and made one of the most stunning science fiction films of the modern era. In Part 1 we cover the film's opening, director Denis Villeneuve, the cast, and the second act — including Ryan Gosling's K, the return of Harrison Ford, and the staggering scale of the world Villeneuve built. Part 2, covering the crew, the finale, reception, and the film's legacy, is available now. Telling the story of Hollywood, one movie at a time. Connect with ATRM: To support what we do, access our archive and listen to exclusive episodes, become an ATRM patron: Listen on Patreon Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify Twitter/X: @ATRightMovies YouTube: Subscribe to our channel Instagram: @allthe_rightmovies Threads: @allthe_rightmovies Facebook: Join our movie group Bluesky: @alltherightmovies.com TikTok: @alltherightmovies Website: alltherightmovies.com

## Transcript

[0:04] All the right movies. You're a cop, what do you want?
[0:11] I need your help. Replicas are the future.
[0:15] We should own the world. 'S worst plan.
[0:20] We have to stop him. Buckle up.
[0:23] Where is he? Blade Runner, 2049.
[0:36] Blade Runner 2049 was released in 2017 as one of the most
[0:39] ambitious sequels ever. The follow up to a science
[0:42] fiction classic, The navial nerves tale of a man made person
[0:45] exploring what it means to be real became a critical triumph
[0:48] that pushed the boundaries of visual storytelling.
[0:50] My name is John, and the more human than humans with me are
[0:54] Westy. That's not a name, that's a
[0:56] serial number. And Matt?
[0:58] Many is the night I dream of cheese.
[1:01] It's 2049 and 80. Or ever investigating memories,
[1:04] questioning reality, and asking what makes us human.
[1:07] You might be happy scraping by with a movie podcast, but that's
[1:10] because you've never heard a miracle.
[1:31] Hello and welcome to All the Right Movies Cells interlinked
[1:35] within Cells interlinked within cells Interlinked and the
[1:39] podcast on classic in his films. Cells.
[1:42] Whatever. Perfect.
[1:46] You're listening to ATRM classic where we tell the story of
[1:48] Hollywood 1 movie at a time, and this time out we're heading back
[1:52] to the most famous rain soaked disturbing feature there is,
[1:56] aren't we? We are indeed, yeah.
[1:58] And snow as well this time. Oh yes.
[2:00] A little bit, yeah. Yeah.
[2:01] Every cloud, yeah, yeah. It's the new Veil, Nerve and
[2:06] Ryan Gosling versus the Impossible, following up one of
[2:09] the most acclaimed science fiction films ever made as we
[2:12] talk Blade Runner 2049. Nice.
[2:18] Sounds like a boom and score in the background as soon as every
[2:20] time I say the title, yeah. Well, before we start the future
[2:24] no investigation, let's talk about our own little digital
[2:27] enterprise, should we? Absolutely.
[2:29] So if you're a regular listener to our ATRM Classic episode, you
[2:32] can help support what we do by becoming an ATRM Patron.
[2:36] Patrons get access to our bonus podcast episodes called Double
[2:39] Feature, where we talk 2 films that may be worthy of the full
[2:43] classic treatment, and The Watch List, where we review more
[2:47] modern releases. And you'd also get access to our
[2:50] whole archive of ATR and Classic episodes.
[2:52] So if you love science fiction, we've got the original Blade
[2:55] Runner. We've got The Matrix and Ex
[2:57] Machina. Wow, yeah.
[2:59] If you're into veal nerve specifically, we've covered a
[3:02] Rival and Sicario as well. Yeah, yeah, so much content.
[3:05] You'll need the memory capacity of a replicant to process it
[3:08] all. Yes, you will indeed will.
[3:10] Yeah, Nexus 10 probably. That's the next one, yeah.
[3:15] So visit ourpatreon@patreon.com/all the
[3:18] right movies or subscribe to our referee on Apple Podcast,
[3:21] Spotify or YouTube as well. Yeah.
[3:24] Back to this episode, Door and Blade Runner 2049.
[3:28] Wester, you put this one up. Why are we talking about it?
[3:30] Why do you think, why do you think I put this up?
[3:33] I mean, a massive, massive fan of the original, as we know.
[3:36] And I was so, so excited to say this.
[3:38] It was one of them ones that I was kind of just really hoping
[3:41] the word can mess it up. I was like please.
[3:44] And then I saw the first trailer and I thought I've got such high
[3:46] hopes for this or the second trailer and I thought I'm
[3:49] booking the tickets now. It was first shown on the Friday
[3:52] that it came out, was an afternoon shown, left work early
[3:54] to go and say it. And I was not disappointed.
[3:57] What an experience that was. I was absolutely blown away.
[4:00] It's kind of easy and me top five cinema experiences of all
[4:03] time. So there's like Dark Knight,
[4:05] Inception, Fury Road and blame 2049.
[4:08] It was just such a feast for the eyes.
[4:10] It was just incredible as deacons at the top of his game,
[4:13] Vilni, but the top of his game. Loved Goslin at the time,
[4:15] obviously still do adored Harrison Ford.
[4:17] It just couldn't get any better for me.
[4:19] Like I say, I love the first Blade Runner and it's the only
[4:21] film that's pretentious enough to have a commercial art house
[4:24] sequel and nothing is makes me happier than having that.
[4:30] It's people going to say and being disappointed.
[4:32] I couldn't wait. What the fuck was that?
[4:36] So I was very excited then. I'm very excited now.
[4:38] I've wanted to talk about it for a long time, but it's just very
[4:41] daunting because there's so much in here.
[4:43] But yeah, I'm really excited to hear what you guys think about
[4:46] this one and I'm very excited to talk about it as per.
[4:48] Hugely ambitious sequel, like we said.
[4:50] And what is any sequel? The sequel to a film regarded as
[4:53] one of the masterpieces of science fiction in Blade Runner.
[4:56] I remember this being announced and feeling Ridley Scott's big
[4:59] shoes. There was always going to be
[5:01] trepidation, and for me, it definitely was.
[5:03] I didn't want to do it at first, to be honest.
[5:05] Yeah. But then I heard Harrison Ford
[5:07] returning alongside Ryan Gosling in the lead.
[5:10] Directed by Denis Veal, nerve shot by Roger Deakins, scored by
[5:13] Han Zimmer. I was like, oh go on then.
[5:16] Why? Not right as well.
[5:19] And on that first watch, I was kind of blown away as well, to
[5:22] be honest, with how it looks, how it sounds with the theme it
[5:25] explores. It takes on the first film in
[5:27] the writing, which I wasn't really expecting, but delighted
[5:29] to say. So we'll talk about all that
[5:32] stuff where it matches up and maybe doesn't with the first
[5:34] film, as well as how it was all made, of course.
[5:37] So massive creative talents behind the scenes on this.
[5:40] So it should be a brilliant one to dive into I think.
[5:42] Definitely, yeah. And Matt, what's your
[5:44] relationship with BR2049? My relationship with this one is
[5:48] that I'm really intimidated by it.
[5:51] It must be big then, yeah. Huge.
[5:54] When I saw Wesley put it up, I say, oh, it's great, but Oh my
[5:57] God, I hope it doesn't win because I'm.
[5:58] Having to. Wrestle, listen to some kind of
[6:01] shape is a task and 1/2, and I mean the film itself is 1, I
[6:05] never thought would actually exist or see the light of day.
[6:08] Because why would you revisit this particular world when it
[6:11] was done to such perfection in the 1st place but also done to
[6:14] pretty much zero financial success or critical acclaim at
[6:18] the time? It felt like a lose, lose
[6:21] situation because he either follow the Ridley Scott path,
[6:24] which didn't have that kind of success, or you go a completely
[6:27] different rate but risk losing the originality that Blade
[6:30] Runner had to make it a cult success later down the line.
[6:33] But here we are. It does exist and it 100% is a
[6:36] Blade Runner film for better. So Knives may be worse in some
[6:40] respect, which will get a new, but it definitely is when you
[6:43] need several attempts with this to really get your head around
[6:45] it. Yeah.
[6:47] But yeah. Blade Runner 2049 was produced
[6:49] by Arcon Entertainment, Columbia Pictures, Scott Free
[6:52] Productions, Bud Yorkin Productions, Toradon Films and
[6:55] 1614 Entertainment, distributed by Warner Brothers Pictures and
[6:59] Sony Pictures Releasing and released on October the 6th,
[7:01] 2017. Filmed in multiple locations
[7:04] including the US, Hungary, Spain, Mexico and Iceland.
[7:07] The film was directed by Denis Villeneuve, written by Hampton
[7:10] Funcha and Michael Green, based on characters from Philip K
[7:13] Dick's novel Do Android Dream of Electric Sheep, and it stars
[7:17] Ryan Gottling as Kier, Harrison Ford as Deckard, Anna de Armas
[7:20] as Joy, Sylvia Hawkes as Love, and Jared Leto as Neander
[7:24] Wallace. Los Angeles, 2049.
[7:27] Then should we go? Let's go, Let's go now.
[7:30] No, turn them back. We're talking replicants and
[7:33] what it means to be born and made, but starting at the
[7:35] beginning of Blade Runner 2049. The beginning.
[7:45] Blade Runner 2049 sets us up in a world that's even more broken
[7:48] than the one we left 30 years earlier in 1982.
[7:51] Yeah, some strange bus there, but it checks out.
[7:54] Yeah, yes. We'll talk about the not so
[7:56] brave new world when we head to LAPDHQ and Wallace Corp But
[8:00] first, the opening. Yeah, let's do it.
[8:02] So we start a board, a spinner, a flying car with our new Blade
[8:06] Runner officer key on route. His latest assignment?
[8:09] He's heading to a protein farm outside LA to retire.
[8:11] Sapa Morton, a rogue Nexus Aid replicant played by dear
[8:14] protester and once thought as a routine job, turns into a brutal
[8:18] confrontation, a Berry box, and a discovery that Will Rock Kay's
[8:22] world. What rocks your world, Matt?
[8:26] Well. We'll talk about the armies
[8:28] later on. John, we'll get to you.
[8:30] There very nice. But for now, though, I mean,
[8:34] this opening, it's got such a great film in the wall vibe when
[8:38] that sort of care to sitting there in the shadows waiting for
[8:41] Sapa to enter. He's got there before him.
[8:43] And I do love that visual metaphor you've got at the start
[8:46] with that pot boiling away in the oven, because that's
[8:49] something I've said quite a few times about other films, like
[8:52] certain performances, certain scenes are like watching a pot
[8:55] bubbling the way and you're waiting for it to boil over.
[8:58] And that's absolutely why you get here with the sound of it
[9:00] constantly in the background, is the tension is rising between
[9:04] these two characters and you know it's going to kick off.
[9:05] And when it does, I mean, the sheer force with which Sapa is
[9:10] slamming K into the wall is incredible.
[9:13] I mean, it's obviously not a film big on laughs, but I do
[9:16] think when V left cuts to the other side of the wall so you
[9:19] just see the vibrations before they come crashing through,
[9:22] that's pretty funny. That's terrifying, I think.
[9:25] Yeah. Well, I'll tell you what is
[9:27] terrifying. That punch to the throat that
[9:28] all starts laying in room. I mean, that always makes me
[9:31] feel crazy. So yeah, very, very arresting
[9:34] opening to say the least. It really is.
[9:36] I mean, I think one of the purposes of a good opening scene
[9:38] is to set our expectations of what's to come in somewhere.
[9:40] Yeah. And Vilia does that in the very
[9:42] first shot, the close up of that eye, the same way the original
[9:46] Blade Runner opens, but it's a different eye, obviously, and
[9:48] lit very differently as well. So it's like we're in the same
[9:51] world. We're going to be exploring
[9:52] similar themes, but we do have something new to bring to it as
[9:55] well. Yeah, obviously we're talking
[9:57] about what that is. But then we pull out of the
[9:59] establishing shot for the opening sequence, those huge,
[10:02] like, synthetic forms, and it's clear it's not quite the same
[10:05] world we last saw. But how stunning are those
[10:07] aerial shots? Absolutely ridiculous.
[10:10] Yeah. Really one of the narrative in
[10:12] Sapa's home. I think it's a great opener as
[10:14] well. I would say when Sapa walks into
[10:16] the kitchen, I've no idea how he doesn't see K sitting there
[10:20] perfectly silhouetted against the window.
[10:22] Yeah, amazing. But the fight's brutal.
[10:24] I love how they come through the wall as well.
[10:26] Great. And it does show us K's
[10:27] abilities as well. Sapa literally slams him through
[10:30] a wall. K hits him once and he's done.
[10:32] Yeah. Shows us the Nexus 9, which K
[10:34] is. Or something else, Something
[10:36] new. Yeah.
[10:36] So and even us back into the blade from our world and letting
[10:39] us know there's new things as well as well as being engaging.
[10:42] I think it's a great opening, 10 minutes or so.
[10:44] Yeah, it really is. And Westie, you opening for you?
[10:47] I mean, just before we get to that bit, we'll get this
[10:49] incredible write up, which is reminiscent of the first one.
[10:52] Yeah, great. And what's the first thing we
[10:53] see on the screen? Just says replicants in red.
[10:56] Yeah. Which is in the top left corner,
[10:58] so the whole audience has to look up and to the left, which
[11:01] is how you identify a replicant. Oh.
[11:02] Nice, yeah. So where we're all looking up
[11:05] and to the left as if we're all replicants and we're all
[11:07] following this whole story. It's brilliant touch, and I
[11:10] absolutely love that. Yeah, like you said, all of that
[11:12] close up of the eye. Obviously it's not blue like the
[11:14] first one. It's green.
[11:15] And there's reasons for that, which we'll get at you later on.
[11:17] But it's just, again, these aerial shots are fantastic.
[11:19] The fact the case is sleeping the spare and he just kind of
[11:22] wakes up. You then put in the position of,
[11:23] yeah, I know what kind of guy this is.
[11:25] And it's the lightning, the sequence, the way that they are
[11:28] silhouetted, the way that it is just exposed.
[11:30] We're just seeing what's going on.
[11:32] And like you guys have said, that fight is absolutely
[11:34] incredible. But what I get from this is that
[11:36] SAP has actually given up. He knows he's beaten in case
[11:39] hitting him once and he's gone down.
[11:40] He's kind of admitted defeat and he's tried to go from one more
[11:43] time. He's almost killed himself.
[11:44] He could have given himself up, but he just runs at the gun.
[11:47] And then when he falls and there's that camera shake, like
[11:49] you said, it's just a wonderful, wonderful moment.
[11:52] The sound design on this is absolutely amazing.
[11:55] And I was just so, so happy to see that overhead sink shot that
[11:58] Dickens seems to get everywhere. He gets it like nearly
[12:01] everything. And about, Yep, the Roger
[12:03] Dickens is here. It's just the, the quality of of
[12:06] the shots, the quality of the lens choice is just the quality
[12:08] of the movement. Everything he has absolutely
[12:10] fantastic. It's just these all these
[12:12] amazing intricate details. You know, you've got the Russian
[12:15] writing on the tents transferred to to Virgin Islands, which was
[12:19] the USSR of Russia. They would develop these high
[12:22] fertility farms where there was low populations.
[12:25] Obviously there were real things.
[12:26] And then Japan obviously won the first nuclear war and then
[12:29] Russia has won this one. So there's a lot of nods to
[12:31] Russia in this, and it just adds this brand new spin on this
[12:34] already familiar genre that could have just gone down the
[12:36] same route. I certainly would have Japanese
[12:39] iconography, that's Blade Runner bit, but what else can we do?
[12:41] What's next, What's different? All of this sequence brings all
[12:44] of that in and you don't even realize the first time you watch
[12:46] it. It's fantastic stuff.
[12:48] Yeah, and it's when K finds that box under the tree and we
[12:50] realize what's in it last time. The film really starts to become
[12:53] its own thing. I think this isn't going to just
[12:55] be a rehash like a replicant who gave birth.
[12:58] That does change things quite a lot.
[12:59] Amazing as well, when he goes back to the spinner and he's
[13:01] writing the card out, but it's not on paper, it's on plastic
[13:04] because paper's so expensive. And then we see trees, just
[13:06] little things like that. That's a 1920s camera replay as
[13:10] well, from like an older 20s camera that it slid into.
[13:13] Yeah. So it's kind of like rehashing
[13:14] old things from the past. Fantastic.
[13:16] They've thought the back story feel today like the NTH degree.
[13:19] So to create a more authentic look, we only have wanted to
[13:21] shoot at real locations on real sets as much as possible.
[13:24] The solar farms we see at the start of the film were filmed at
[13:27] the Gemma solar Thermal power station near Seville in Spain.
[13:30] The scenes on Satmars Farm were filmed in Iceland, and the tree
[13:34] where Kid discovers the box wasn't a real tree, it was
[13:36] actually made out of concrete. Heavy tree.
[13:38] Really heavy. Yeah, all the all great shots.
[13:41] I mean there is digital work there, but it's mainly
[13:43] relocations with digital enhancements rather than just PY
[13:46] green screen. Yeah.
[13:48] And it was frame store that we've interviewed who did the
[13:50] effect shots in the open. Amazing, right?
[13:52] Yeah, all right. Real landscapes of the inserted
[13:53] elements into digitally. I mean, I think isn't it a blend
[13:57] of technologies? Definitely, yeah.
[13:59] And Dave Artista got the part of Saba through his standard custom
[14:02] process, but Veiler didn't want him at first because he thought
[14:05] he was too young. But the makeup supervisor Donald
[14:08] Norwatt had about Easter made it to look older, and he managed to
[14:11] win Veiler over with his performance.
[14:13] I'm surprised because watching him now, I think it's a great
[14:15] piece of casting. He's really, really good.
[14:17] Does Batista ever look young? He looks about 50 all the time.
[14:23] He does, yeah. But I think you might just bring
[14:25] something to the character and just a couple of minutes, which
[14:28] I think is really important, which is like, I have sympathy
[14:30] for him, I feel like. Massive, massively.
[14:32] It's them glasses and the way he puts the glasses on, they're
[14:34] just so fragile and he seems like such a fragile character.
[14:36] He does, yeah. It's like he's just living his
[14:38] life. He's not hurting anyone.
[14:39] And I feel it in the portrait. Yeah, he's like John Coffey.
[14:45] We don't see it in the film, but the events that lead to the
[14:47] opening were filmed in prequel short called 2048, Nowhere to
[14:51] Run. In that a little girl and a
[14:53] mother are attacked by muggers. Saba saves them by killing three
[14:56] muggers. Sean, he's a replicant and
[14:58] that's how care tracks him down. Yeah, so he's not hearing
[15:01] anyone. Quite the opposite.
[15:02] But that's why I think replicants are so great as a
[15:04] piece of writing that they can represent any kind of like real
[15:07] world oppression, because what it boils down to is kind of just
[15:10] leave them alone for God's sakes.
[15:12] Yeah and the studios who made the film created 3 short films
[15:16] separate training, the original Blade Runner and this one.
[15:18] And that gives the back story between the films.
[15:21] Wesley just mentioned there nowhere to run about supper
[15:23] Martin. And there was an animation
[15:24] called Blackout 2022 and that explains the blackout mentioned
[15:28] in the film where the data about replicants was destroyed so they
[15:31] couldn't be tracked and replicant production was banned.
[15:34] And then there was also 2036 Nexus Dawn, and that shows how
[15:38] Neander Wallace brings about the end of Prohibition on replicant
[15:41] production. Yes, that's kind of everything
[15:43] important that's happened between the first film in this
[15:45] one, which is quite a lot. Yeah, quite a bit, yeah.
[15:47] And the animation was made by Shinichiro What Nabia famous for
[15:51] the Animatrix? Do you remember that?
[15:53] Yeah, and Cowboy Bebop as well. He did.
[15:55] Cowboy Bebop, who directed the other two short films, was Luke
[15:59] Scott, Ridley Scott's son. All right, keeping you in the
[16:02] family. Absolutely.
[16:03] Yeah, the old interesting, though short if you like.
[16:06] Yeah, they're really good. Really, really good, actually.
[16:08] Bridge the gap beautifully. Yeah, they do.
[16:10] The opening that we've just talked about was inspired by an
[16:12] opening that was written for the first film and rejected by
[16:14] Ridley Scott, which is crazy. In that version, Rick Daggart
[16:17] was in a countryside house waiting to retire, a replica
[16:20] dressed in a protection suit and a gas mask while the pot of suit
[16:23] was boiling in the kitchen. All elements that are included
[16:26] in the 2049 version. Instead, Scott just went, let's
[16:29] just have meetings and noodles. Yeah, of course.
[16:32] Yeah, yeah. Well, it's nice to use that
[16:33] original idea, I think. I mean straight away the right
[16:36] as a tapping into the headspace that were in 40 years earlier.
[16:38] Yeah, I think that original opening as well, he just shoots
[16:41] the replicant in the back, right?
[16:42] Cold blood. So he didn't want to introduce
[16:44] the character that way. He wanted to have a little bit
[16:46] more mystery and just rhyme as such a hard ass.
[16:48] Yeah, fair enough. So then after this bit on the
[16:51] farm, K gets called back and just bear in mind he's had the
[16:54] shit kicked out of him and now there's people in the corridor.
[16:56] Just tell them to fuck off. I know he's awful.
[17:00] He's having the worst possible day.
[17:02] There's like me at school every day.
[17:05] Want to school? Best to get up my way home.
[17:06] Sorry. Well, well, just like our school
[17:10] days, best seat. Then there's this really
[17:11] aggressive test coming up. We will go.
[17:14] You know, I don't know what's going on here.
[17:15] I mean, it's really disoriented, which is the point.
[17:18] But all the cells, cells, interlinked cells, like
[17:21] obviously it's talking back to the test in the original film,
[17:24] but it's so in your face, you know, it is like the worst job
[17:27] interview where you're like, yes, no, I don't know, Like
[17:29] whatever the right answer is, I've said it hopefully.
[17:32] But I like how the visuals change up here.
[17:34] It's so starkly white. And that contrasts to how we say
[17:37] the original test in the first film.
[17:39] But it's just like unnecessarily stressful.
[17:41] And I'm just really glad when this bid is over, because you
[17:45] know when you have to select like which 3 squares in this
[17:47] picture I have a traffic light in them.
[17:49] I'm panic over that. I'd be.
[17:50] Useless doing this kind of. Thing Oh, you were relevant.
[17:54] Yeah. Sells in Daling, but it's
[17:56] Mendel. But I love it.
[17:58] I like the vastness of the California landscapes to this,
[18:01] like, claustrophobic booth where chaos that kind of proved that
[18:04] you're still working properly. Yeah.
[18:05] And we talked about how this film develops themes from the
[18:07] original. I think this is a pretty good
[18:09] example of it because this is like the void comp test from the
[18:11] first film. Yeah, but tuned on its head.
[18:14] I mean, the baseline test isn't testing for empathy like Void
[18:16] Camp, it's testing for like the absence of emotion.
[18:19] It was the opposite of more human than human in the
[18:22] original. And I think that's the point.
[18:24] The whole thing is about keeping Key like literally in his box,
[18:27] making sure he's still a good little replicant doing his job.
[18:30] And it sets up the moment later when he fails the baseline test,
[18:33] which is really good. So agree with the show.
[18:35] Key is like Arc developing as well I think.
[18:37] Yeah, the original screenplay had the baseline test at the
[18:41] very beginning of the film, but they'll only have moved it to
[18:43] open with the landscape shots instead, which I think is miles
[18:46] better. And at first it was on key on a
[18:48] bed with a machine scanning them over.
[18:50] But through storyboarding it changed to the booth, which I
[18:53] think, again, that's a better choice.
[18:54] The scanner in the scene was designed by storyboard artist
[18:57] Sam Hudecki. It looks great I think really
[18:59] like impersonal. Yeah.
[19:02] And what sounds like a medical exam or something to more like
[19:04] an interrogation, I think that works much better as well.
[19:07] Is that kind of like oppression? And the dialogue of the test,
[19:10] the cells in the link within cells in the link, which we've
[19:12] been talking about, that's taken from a Vladaby and Nabokov novel
[19:16] from 1962 called PL. Fire.
[19:18] But this changed as well. Originally it was written as a
[19:21] mantra that Kay recites, but Ryan Gosling said they should
[19:24] use an acting method he knew called a dropping in.
[19:27] And this was developed by two acting quarters called Tina
[19:29] Packer in Chris and Linklater and was designed to help actors
[19:32] learn Shakespeare. Yeah.
[19:34] Yeah, Dropping in is apparently done.
[19:35] So the Shakespeare actors form like an emotional connection to
[19:38] what could obviously be pretty challenging text.
[19:41] And I guess it reminded Gosling of dropping in, and I gave him
[19:43] the idea. I think it works great because
[19:45] it's kind of like he's reprogramming himself.
[19:48] Yeah. And there's an appeal fire
[19:50] reference coming up a bit later on as well.
[19:51] Yes, there is. Yeah.
[19:52] Two versions of the Baseline test were filmed, the original
[19:55] as it was in the script and the one we see.
[19:58] What we see was written by Goslin and filmed on 1/8 minute
[20:01] long take and edit. The Joe Walker cut it down to
[20:03] about 40 seconds. Go on, Joe. 8 minutes.
[20:08] That whole scene is the first thing we see.
[20:10] Mental. I think that would be great.
[20:12] I would have kept that in the open, yeah.
[20:16] And the cityscape shots we see just before the baseline test
[20:19] where we see Kay returning to LAPD.
[20:22] They were filmed to Mexico. And the helicopter shots of the
[20:24] fellas in urban areas around Mexico City.
[20:27] Yeah, I've been used miniatures as well, like the first film and
[20:30] again, everything then enhanced with digital effects.
[20:32] I think it all just looks great. Yeah, it looks fantastic.
[20:36] And that's the opening scenes, synthetic forms and retired
[20:39] replicants. We've met Kay, seen him do his
[20:42] job and discovered an impossible pregnancy.
[20:45] Time to see where that leads, I think.
[20:46] Let's do it. From there Kay's boss Lieutenant
[20:51] Joshi, played by Robin Wright, KET Kay on the case and the
[20:54] investigation into a replicant baby kicks into gear.
[20:58] Kay heads to the Wallace Corporation, who now manufacture
[21:00] the replicants, where we meet blind God Neander Wallace, his
[21:04] right hand replicant love, and a demonstration of Wallace's
[21:07] twisted relationship with his own creations.
[21:10] Indeed. So, Matt, how are things in
[21:12] Neander's place? Outrageously or TT.
[21:16] Like absolutely no need for that massive desk for one file clerk.
[21:22] Just give him a little table in a chair.
[21:23] That's all he needs. I mean, no, the set design is
[21:26] incredible. And just when you think this is
[21:28] already very accomplished in terms of what they want this to
[21:32] look like and for how they wanted to be lit, you meet love
[21:35] in her office just bathed in those reflections of the RIP
[21:38] water. Like there's no practical need
[21:40] for any of this to look like this.
[21:43] But if you're going to make these creative decisions, follow
[21:46] through with them and make them look as good as this does,
[21:48] because there's no holding back here.
[21:50] If you're only ever going to make one beard run a film, you
[21:52] can't do half measures and this scene absolutely doesn't.
[21:55] And I think there's some really good world building the heel as
[21:57] well. The mention of the blackout,
[21:59] which is really intriguing and it is a bit like the supper
[22:02] Morton See, not many laughs, but again, there's one here.
[22:04] When the final clerk says his mom cried off the lost baby,
[22:07] pictures and Care replies, well, it's a shame.
[22:09] You must have been adorable. Yeah, it's funny that yeah.
[22:13] That might be the only joke in the whole film.
[22:15] It definitely is, yeah. It definitely is, yeah.
[22:18] And yeah, when Joshie drops the bombshell at LAPD about the
[22:21] replicant remains, she was pregnant, she says.
[22:24] I'm always kind of waiting for Kay to go pregnant, you might
[22:27] say. But.
[22:28] Never goes. He's not a podcast man.
[22:33] That's what I would do. Of course you would have been a
[22:35] get out John baseline test again.
[22:41] But yeah, Wallace Cope. That is where the world building
[22:43] really kicks in. We do learn about the blackout,
[22:45] how records were lost, how Wallace saved the world from
[22:47] starvation with his farming. It's pretty heavy exposition,
[22:50] but it's done quite elegantly. We're learning as K does.
[22:54] And it's weird. The file clear guy is absolutely
[22:57] nuts, but I like him. And we do know glossy guys
[22:59] comedy chops, right? They succeed him.
[23:01] Use them here. Yeah, but something I think this
[23:03] film actually does better all the job of than the first film
[23:06] is tapping into the film wall style detective side of it
[23:09] because carries out like a proper investigation.
[23:11] Yeah, with the box news to Wallace leading to the horse.
[23:14] He's like a real detective and it all came to start here.
[23:17] The file clerk is played by Thomas Lamarck we, a French
[23:20] Icelandic actor who built his career starring in Icelandic
[23:23] films, and he has alopecia universalist, and that's a
[23:26] condition that left him hairless by age 14.
[23:29] And so he's often cast and wrote to use a strike an appearance.
[23:32] And the year before Blade Runner, he was an X-Men
[23:34] Apocalypse. Right.
[23:36] He's Calabar in X-Men. That's the same character
[23:38] Stephen Merchant played in Logan, if you recall that.
[23:41] All right. Yes, Yeah, yeah.
[23:43] Yeah, yeah. Imagine Merchant showed up here.
[23:47] Yeah, you would have, you would have fit the look.
[23:52] So after all this visual ecstasy that we've seen, but there's a
[23:56] wonderful moment where this repplingen is born and you just
[24:00] start shot through the door and it's in the bag and that moment
[24:03] that it's birthed out of it. I'm watching it again now going
[24:06] yeah, I think the Neville news definitely going to do June.
[24:09] Isn't he just for. That it could be from June, That
[24:13] it could. Be that shot.
[24:14] It's just absolutely brilliant. It's such a blueprint for it.
[24:17] But this is, again, it's such an interesting scene because we've
[24:20] gotten going in, he's realised about the birth of the child.
[24:23] He knows that what he's creating now isn't good enough.
[24:25] He wants something else. And the way that he just kind of
[24:28] treats this reppling, it is just a thing now.
[24:30] It's not good enough. And the fact that he can't
[24:32] really see and these drones are such a good idea, these 6 camera
[24:36] drones that come out and are plugged into his neck and he
[24:38] sees through technology. So he hasn't got a soul.
[24:41] He hasn't, he can't. His eyes don't work necessarily
[24:44] through himself. He has to use technology to see,
[24:47] so he's not using his soul to see anything, which I think is
[24:49] really important. The fact that he puts one on
[24:51] love just to see her reaction to it, I think it's really
[24:54] important. And the way that he cuts the
[24:55] replicant's stomach the same way that Sapa did to get the baby
[24:59] out for of Rachel of just slices out to be sure that that's
[25:03] emptiness. You're not good enough.
[25:04] Then I want something else that's going to give me
[25:06] something from that procedure. I love the way he kisses her as
[25:09] well, the way, same way as, but he kissed Tyrell before.
[25:12] He pushes his eyes in the first film.
[25:14] That's all in there. That comes back later with love
[25:16] and care when we get that at the end.
[25:18] And I think she's just upset that he's not impressed.
[25:20] She's not upset that this replicants died.
[25:21] She's just upset that he's not pleased enough, which is why you
[25:24] get that single tear and that real emotion in her face.
[25:27] But you just get the menace of this character of Wallace.
[25:31] He always wants more. And I got that feeling he's
[25:32] always going to outdo himself and always going to put himself
[25:35] into the grave trying to get better and better.
[25:37] He wants trillions of these things.
[25:39] What the fuck's he on about? Like how much, how much power
[25:42] does one person need? I think it's just an incredible
[25:45] scene and sets up loads more. There's lots of foreshadowing in
[25:48] this, lots of foreshadowing. And I think on your second and
[25:51] third view, and this film just gets better and better and
[25:53] better. The amount of layers that are
[25:54] put into it and this scene is just testament to that.
[25:58] It is, yeah. I find all pretty dark and
[26:00] disturbing this scene. This definitely feels like the
[26:02] original Blade Runner to me. We see this like, newborn
[26:05] replicant. It just seems frightened, which
[26:07] is awful. You just got no idea what's
[26:09] going on. And then Wallace just kills
[26:10] that. So he creates life but seems to
[26:12] have no respect for it. Yeah.
[26:14] And love, we'll talk about her more, obviously.
[26:16] But yeah, she's watching crying, which is a bit weird as she's
[26:19] sad. I mean, there's a few times that
[26:21] would say, love do things in the film where the reason behind it
[26:23] isn't totally clear, which is surely intentional to add depth,
[26:26] I guess. And this is one of them.
[26:28] But it's like a beautiful place where awful things happen, which
[26:31] I think is very Blade Runner. And the production designer was
[26:35] Dennis Gastner and they built the set for Wallaces layer in
[26:37] Budapest. He based the design on one of
[26:39] the rooms in Kayumi Zudera, the 1200 year old Buddhist temple in
[26:43] Kyoto, Japan. And the floor type is called the
[26:45] Nightingale floor, where the floor chef from a people walk on
[26:48] it to prevent intruders. Well.
[26:50] Obviously because walls are blind, but chirping floor would
[26:53] drive me mad. Yeah.
[26:55] Turn it like when you need to change the batteries in your
[26:57] fave a lot. Like, yeah, I'm actually going
[27:00] off. Well, the production design is
[27:02] great. Everything is clean and
[27:03] minimalist, which is like the opposite of the outside world.
[27:06] And it is like a temple. Wallace has built himself this
[27:08] like, kind of palace, while the rest of the world seems to just
[27:11] rot. Yeah, and Speaking of Neander
[27:14] Wallace, he's played by Jared Leto.
[27:16] He seems to be a bit of a divisive performance, what some
[27:19] people say about it. What do you think?
[27:21] Let's see Paul Allen's replicant.
[27:25] No can. Do sergeants of Iche I.
[27:29] Mean I'll be honest letter or the only performance like of his
[27:32] is American Psycho, mainly because he gets an axe in the
[27:34] face. So I'm glad he isn't in this too
[27:36] much. I do find him a bit
[27:37] insufferable, a bit previous, yeah.
[27:40] I can't stick them at all. But also, why doesn't Wallace
[27:43] just build himself some new eyes?
[27:44] Like, doesn't he live with the own?
[27:45] Like an eyeball factory basically.
[27:47] Replicant eyes. Replicant eyes.
[27:49] Yeah. Yeah, I.
[27:50] Don't know if there's different ways to do things I guess.
[27:52] I mean, I'm not explaining his behavior.
[27:54] He's doing the problem he wants. We've got the money, yeah.
[27:58] Exactly. Yeah, I mean, I think he's a big
[28:00] talent, Jared Leto, a huge acting talent, and there's other
[28:03] performance that's a problem. For me.
[28:05] It's kind of the choices from Leto unveil nerf, presumably.
[28:09] Wallace is so serene and so calm, which will be fine, but
[28:12] I'm not sure it works. Yeah, because Kay is already
[28:14] reserved, following us from Deckard.
[28:16] He was also reserved. So I'm not sure it works.
[28:18] Having a bad guy who holds back as well like Wallace does all
[28:21] you could do with a bit more variation maybe.
[28:24] I kind of think so, yeah. But I personally think we've got
[28:26] everything we need and love I don't think we need.
[28:28] Was love great? At all.
[28:30] I think it's like having Tyrell in the first one.
[28:32] We don't need them. When you've got Batty, you know
[28:34] when she's getting her nails done and the bombs are coming
[28:35] down, boom, That's it. She's a real badass, and she is
[28:39] the badass through all of the film.
[28:40] And she really does over Shadow Letter, to be honest.
[28:43] To me, he does feel like maybe second or third choice.
[28:46] And when he's on the screen, it doesn't feel like he's the first
[28:48] choice at all for the director. And they've just went well, this
[28:51] guy will do at the minute, but it doesn't matter because we've
[28:53] got love as a character. So she outshines for me,
[28:56] definitely. I would agree.
[28:57] I think she does. So when Velnie was casting as
[29:00] part of Wallace, he considered Ed Harris and Gary Oldman, but
[29:04] the person he originally wanted was David Bowie.
[29:06] That would have been fucking unbelievable.
[29:09] Would have. Been great.
[29:10] Bowie looking for a baby yet again.
[29:12] Forget about the babe. It would have been amazing.
[29:15] Same here. Imagine just that in silhouette.
[29:18] It would have been a massive codpiece.
[29:20] He's allowed. I would have really would have
[29:23] given anything to say that, but unfortunately, he passed away in
[29:25] 2016 and Letter was cast. Yeah, if only you've said that
[29:28] he had an underlying menace, that he wanted the musical
[29:31] background. Like Bowie.
[29:32] It's a thin connection, isn't it?
[29:34] Like. Very thin connection.
[29:35] Yeah, the musical background. I mean 30 Seconds To Mars
[29:39] exactly. The menace?
[29:40] Yeah, that can do that. But I'm not sure you can compare
[29:42] 30 Seconds To Mars the Boy. Yeah, it's, yeah.
[29:46] I mean the kills. Not exactly hunky Dory, is
[29:47] there? Let's be honest.
[29:52] And to get fully immersed in the fact that Wallace is blind, LED
[29:54] a war, Opaque contact lenses that made it impossible to see.
[29:58] And they were especially hand painted by an expert.
[30:00] And apparently there's only two people in the world that can do
[30:03] that. And he wore them for the
[30:04] beginning of the day until he left the set.
[30:06] Really. Method.
[30:07] And I guess that ties back to Eldon Tyrell from the first
[30:10] film, who created the replicants and then had his eyes gouged out
[30:13] for it by Roy Batley. Yeah, yeah, there's another Roy
[30:16] Batley reference in Blade Runner.
[30:18] Batley quotes a William Blake poem and says fiery the Angels
[30:22] fell, and here Wallace refers to his replicants as his Angels.
[30:25] Also a nod to the fact that I mean as far as Walter is
[30:27] concerned, the angels, and I don't know about you, but I
[30:30] think he might have a bit of a God complex.
[30:33] Or just maybe a little ones. Yeah, I think so.
[30:36] Yeah. That's too obvious to even talk
[30:38] about, isn't it really? Yeah, just a bit.
[30:40] Yeah, and it's around this time we see Kia's apartment for the
[30:43] first time as well. The XTVS and NTVS were also shot
[30:46] in Budapest, and the set was built on the soundstage and
[30:49] filled with mist to create the look of fog outside Kia's
[30:52] window. Nice.
[30:54] Yeah, add some technology and a bit of mist and you've got to
[30:56] disturb your future. That's all you need.
[30:58] I mean a little bit more than that, John, I think.
[31:03] I don't know Budget. He wasn't still being a future
[31:06] in tonight's set. I think it's pretty good.
[31:08] It's wonderful, yeah. And that's where we meet our
[31:10] Master's joy for the first time as well.
[31:12] Yeah, definitely. We'll have more enjoy as we go,
[31:15] but that's the beginning of Blade Runner 2049.
[31:18] We've seen a miracle. The replicant who gave birth,
[31:20] met most of our main players and seen the kind of world the
[31:23] inhabit. Yeah.
[31:24] Should we talk about the man orchestrating all of it?
[31:27] Let's do it. Got 2.
[31:31] The director. The director who played from the
[31:36] 2049 was Denis Villeneuve. This was his ninth feature film
[31:40] and coming off the back of Prisoner, Sicario and Arrival,
[31:43] his second foray into science fiction, taking on a sequel to
[31:47] one of the most beloved science fiction films of all time.
[31:50] Not an easy gig, Matt, no. How did Villeneuve handle the
[31:53] pressure? Well, we've covered a rival, and
[31:55] I said on that episode, I do think he's very similar to
[31:58] Ridley Scott anyway in that he's all about the visuals, not
[32:01] necessarily the storytelling. So it makes perfect sense that
[32:05] he's the one that picks up this particular baton.
[32:08] And it has to be said that confidence to do that is
[32:11] something else, because it's not just one of the most revered
[32:13] films of all time. He's doing the sequel to he's
[32:17] making a sequel to a film that was a famous commercial flop.
[32:20] But The thing is, he's not changing a single thing about it
[32:23] that made it flop. It's downbeat.
[32:25] The plot is very obscure for the most part.
[32:28] If anything, he double S down on everything that people didn't
[32:31] respond to in the action of Blade Runner.
[32:33] And that takes confidence to do that.
[32:36] That's amazing. Such confidence.
[32:37] Like he doesn't feel the need to inject it with action sequences
[32:41] just to hurry it up a bit. If you compare him to Spielberg,
[32:44] Spielberg looks a Blade Runner, loves it, but he goes, it makes
[32:47] Minority Report, which is a great film but much more
[32:50] straightforward action app VLF looks at later, and it goes,
[32:54] I'll just do more with that because I can.
[32:56] So while this will always be the world that Ridley Scott has
[32:59] created, VLF is right at home in it, and he understands it to an
[33:02] extent I don't think anyone else did at the time.
[33:05] Yeah. Yeah.
[33:06] I mean, I think when we say something is a great sequel,
[33:09] we're not just saying we enjoyed it as a salary.
[33:11] The great sequel, like traditionally is something that
[33:13] fits in with the first film but also goes in a different
[33:16] direction a bit, maybe going back to The Empire Strikes Back.
[33:19] And I think this definitely ties into that tradition of what
[33:22] makes the great sequel. The tricky thing I think is you
[33:25] want to do your own thing but you can't move too far away.
[33:28] What Veal Nerve does, it still has to fit in Ridley Scott
[33:30] world. So it's like where do you pitch
[33:32] it? I think Veal Nerve goes with
[33:34] what he knows. He grew up in Canada in the
[33:36] 1970s where apparently it could snow for like 7 months of the
[33:39] year. So that's why bring Snow here, I
[33:41] think to put it through the lens of something he's familiar with
[33:44] and totally, I think this has a feel of 70 science fiction, like
[33:47] silent running or Solaris, like intense and hard hitting.
[33:50] I think all those influences there and what he brings that he
[33:53] always does. I mean, there's not many
[33:55] directors that treat the audience as intelligent as Denis
[33:57] Villeneuve does and explains thing.
[33:59] But once you expect it to keep up and if you don't, that's on
[34:02] you. The way that he handles the
[34:04] reveal about Kay's memories, the way he builds up to the twist
[34:06] about who the child really is. You're blinking, you'll miss
[34:09] something. And that's a good thing for me.
[34:11] I don't want to be told something four times.
[34:13] Exactly. How it looks, I'll say that for
[34:15] when we get into the visuals, but it's astonishing.
[34:17] And by viewing those high standards, but I think you
[34:20] understood that if you want to make something that lasts, you
[34:22] can't just remake Blade Runner. You have to find something new
[34:25] to say. And I think he does.
[34:27] We're the original asks what makes us human.
[34:29] This one asks, does it matter if you're special?
[34:32] And for me, that's how you deal with Legacy Sequel, which is
[34:33] what this is. Respect what came before, but
[34:36] don't be like enslaved by it on the original, but in your own
[34:40] voice. And that's what Viola does.
[34:41] That's what Viola always does, and it's not perfect.
[34:45] I'll talk about some nitpicks that I have, but to follow up a
[34:47] huge film like Blade Runner, it makes something worthy of the
[34:50] original, which I definitely think this is.
[34:53] That's some achievement in my eyes.
[34:55] Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think the original
[34:57] Blade Runner is fantastic. It's it's a work of art and
[35:00] always has been and there always will be revered in such a way.
[35:02] That's a Nexus 6 for me and this is a Nexus 9.
[35:05] I think that's that's what Villeneuve wanted to do.
[35:07] It's just slicker, it's faster. It just has, he has such a
[35:10] command over the tone, but with such a love and respect for
[35:13] Ridley Scott's vision at the same time.
[35:14] It all kind of paints together. This is perfect for me.
[35:17] It sits perfectly between arrival in June.
[35:19] You can see the step between them this that step up the
[35:23] ladder to like right out and grab this.
[35:25] Now I'm next. I'm ready to go to the next
[35:27] level. You can see his career
[35:28] progressing through this film. For me, Villeneuve, there's just
[35:31] enough of his personality to cut through this.
[35:34] There's a lot of layers here. It's got its own tone, it's its
[35:36] own world, but he still manages to put a little bit of
[35:39] personality in there just enough to cut through and make it his
[35:42] own, which I think is the hardest thing to do, especially
[35:45] with the sequel, especially with the legacy sequel as well.
[35:47] If I'm evil you've despite who his DP is, he always has this
[35:50] look. It always has this elegance.
[35:52] It always has this style that ticks all the boxes.
[35:55] There's three different DPS between these three films.
[35:58] So it just it shows that he's got a real command over Arrival
[36:02] to this to then June. That just shows the command that
[36:05] he's got of everything in the tone that he brings and the
[36:08] personality that he brings to his films.
[36:09] And I remember what Matt said on the Arrival episode and he also
[36:12] said on Prisoners is that Villeneuve is a very cool
[36:15] director. And we said it in Sarkari as
[36:17] well. And I think he is a cool
[36:18] director, but that's exactly what this film needs, A. 100%
[36:22] yeah, yeah. And he absolutely.
[36:24] Nails. I think he's the perfect choice
[36:25] for this, yeah. Well, as we've been saying, the
[36:28] original Blade when I was a box office flop when it's released
[36:30] in 1982. Over time, the word reputation
[36:33] grew to the legendary one that it has today, and there were
[36:37] many near attempts to make a sequel over the years.
[36:40] Yeah. I think you know a bit more
[36:41] about that, Matt. I do, somehow.
[36:43] It's a hell of a story. So.
[36:46] Memories. The Unicorn running through the
[36:48] woods. So it starts back in 1995, where
[36:54] kW Jeter wrote an authorized sequel to Blade Runner as a
[36:57] novel called Blade Runner 2, Edge of Human.
[37:00] A screenwriter called Stuart Hazeline adapted that into a
[37:03] spec screenplay called Runner Down, but the film's rights
[37:06] owners But York and and Jerry Panicio weren't interested.
[37:10] Yeah, it's said about 10 years after the original, and
[37:12] apparently it's about Decor trying to hunt down a replicant
[37:14] who learned the secret of long life so he can prevent Rachel
[37:17] from dying, right? Sounds like a decent idea.
[37:20] Yeah, I like that. Yeah, definitely does.
[37:22] And then Ridley Scott and Warner Brothers started talking about a
[37:24] Blade run a sequel in the 2000s, but had problems to the
[37:28] licensing disputes over do Android stream of Electric
[37:31] Sheep, which is the Philip K Dick novel Blade Runners based
[37:34] on. Yeah, Jerry Parentio, you
[37:36] mentioned there, he was like a billionaire and he didn't want
[37:38] the sequel to be made. So any sequel talk went no way
[37:41] for years because apparently he would just say no.
[37:44] Right, right. Yeah.
[37:45] So then Scott came up with an ID for a sequel only vaguely
[37:48] connected to the first film called Metropolis.
[37:50] Bit unoriginal, yeah. Yeah, no one's heard of that
[37:54] one, really, have they? Yeah.
[37:55] Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, apparently it was
[37:57] going to be heavily inspired by like the fret line classic,
[38:00] which is why it was called that. Right.
[38:02] But Metropolis stalled. So then in 2009, Scott worked
[38:06] with his son Luke and his brother Tony Scott on Purefold,
[38:09] and this was going to be a web series of shorts set before the
[38:12] events of the first film, but that stalled due to lack of
[38:15] funding. Yeah, apparently the narrative
[38:16] for the whole series was going to be shaped by ideas that
[38:19] people had on social media platforms, and they would kind
[38:21] of follow that. So that could have been like,
[38:24] interesting. But by this time, but Jochen had
[38:27] bought Jerry Pinitio's Chef the rights to the book and producers
[38:30] Broderick Johnson and Andrew Kosov, who owned Alcon
[38:33] Entertainment. They struck a deal with him for
[38:35] film rights to sequels and television.
[38:37] So they approached Ridley Scott and he signed on to direct in
[38:40] 2011. Yes, the deal said that they
[38:42] weren't allowed to remake the original.
[38:44] I mean, why would you that exactly anything you'd have the
[38:48] green light, hence the prequel show to the television series
[38:51] that we've had. Yeah, So the had a script at
[38:54] this point and Harrison Ford was interested in returning, but
[38:57] Scott then dropped out due to clashes with Alien Covenant.
[39:00] But he did stay on his executive producer to oversee the creative
[39:03] direction you went. Through everything Scott doesn't
[39:05] he? Alien Blade Runner, Gladiator of
[39:08] it. Salman Louise, They're just
[39:10] going to float, Turns into a spinner.
[39:14] Blade Runner, 2050. So Scott left, but Alcon you who
[39:19] The Wanted to take over that worked with Denny Villeneuve on
[39:22] Prisoners a few years earlier and knew we now had science
[39:25] fiction experience in Arrival so approached him.
[39:28] He loved Blade Runner, obviously, and all initially
[39:30] hesitant, eventually signed on. Nice.
[39:33] Yeah, he said that he didn't think a sequel should be made,
[39:35] but also he didn't want anyone else to do it in case they
[39:37] fucked it up. Because he put it, Yeah.
[39:39] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Villeneuve said that he felt
[39:42] under a lot of pressure to do the first film justice.
[39:45] Obviously, he said. He said what made it worse was
[39:47] that Ridley Scott was on the set all of the time, and eventually
[39:51] Villeneuve asked him how he would feel if his favorite
[39:53] director, Ingmar Bergman, was looking over his shoulder while
[39:56] directing. Scott said he understood and
[39:58] then just left the second here. I understand.
[40:01] You can imagine. I mean, it's not like you won't
[40:02] voice his opinions, Scott, is it?
[40:04] But no, no. On the set was to be just in
[40:07] there. Yeah.
[40:07] Just in the background. Yeah.
[40:09] Two shot. That's a two shot.
[40:12] Exactly. And V Love did have his own
[40:16] vision for the film. Renee April was costume designer
[40:18] and she said she designed some out there outfits in her words.
[40:22] But V Love told her to rein it in.
[40:24] He said with the world being decimated by the blackout and
[40:26] famine, fashion had become secondary and clothes were just
[40:29] functional. They're awesome.
[40:30] Not to the original, though. Joy has a transparent court
[40:33] similar to the one that one of the replicants saw her wears in
[40:36] the first film. She does.
[40:37] I mean, function of a fashion does make sense, but still, I
[40:40] love keys. Court.
[40:43] Yeah, absolutely awesome. One of the best chords ever.
[40:46] He's just, it's a heartbreak and you just kind of pull off can
[40:48] you say this, the drive jacket with the scorpion on the back
[40:51] drive wearing that. Unique any chord look great Ryan
[40:53] God. Really does.
[40:54] Yeah, yeah. And the production designer on
[40:57] arrival was Patrice Fermat, but he was unavailable for Blade
[41:00] Runner. So Veena hired Dennis Gassner.
[41:02] Like we mentioned, he'd worked with the Corn Brothers and the
[41:04] three James Bond films before this and said when he met Veena,
[41:07] he said, describe the world recreating in one word.
[41:11] And Veena said brutality. Nice.
[41:14] Yeah, it's a bit of a harsher world in the first film.
[41:16] So brutality works. And you see that in the building
[41:18] is like Key's apartment block, which is kind of a brutalist
[41:21] architecture. Yeah, yeah.
[41:22] And I think the spinners as well, they're designed to be a
[41:24] bit more striking. You're a bit more angular, I
[41:26] think. So things have changed and
[41:27] developed a bit, so they put thought into it.
[41:29] And Gastner said that he and Vilni have both only like using
[41:32] green screen when absolutely necessary, so they won't make as
[41:35] many sets as they could. They couldn't get into London to
[41:37] film and Ridley Scott's jested Budapest where he just shot The
[41:40] Martian and that's where shot most of the film.
[41:42] Yeah, the bill, just about everything.
[41:44] So Kay's apartment, Wallace Corp that we talked about or filmed
[41:47] in Hungary and I think Budapest has that brutal less
[41:50] architecture style as well. So, yeah, yeah.
[41:53] Yeah, Yeah. Beautiful.
[41:54] Yeah. Before we finish Underneath the
[41:56] Nerve, we have our first ATRM patron question.
[41:59] So as well as all those benefits that you mentioned in the start
[42:02] of the show, if you sign up to become an ATRM patron, we'll
[42:05] answer your questions as well. Yeah, we have one now about
[42:08] legacy sequels, so. Lovely.
[42:11] Lucas is here, not George Lucas, I don't think.
[42:14] Oh. OK, right.
[42:15] I bet he's got an opinion on legacy sequels.
[42:17] I bet he had fucking houses. Less of them, please, George.
[42:20] He invented them. Unfortunately, yeah.
[42:23] Yeah, but hello Lucas, either way.
[42:26] Hello. Lucas and he says lads, I'll
[42:28] never forgive you for choosing this over the Thin Red Line.
[42:31] Just kidding. I love you boys and appreciate
[42:33] all the work you do. 10 out of 10.
[42:35] That's very kind. It'll come back round another
[42:37] poll. It will.
[42:38] It will. Eventually I'll end up doing it
[42:39] by myself when I'm like 98 or something that'll.
[42:42] Be fine, but Lucas question is seeing as Blade Runner is a
[42:46] legacy sequel, do you guys like legacy sequels and are they
[42:49] necessary? Personally, Lucas says when they
[42:52] don't write they're fantastic. A high point being Top Gun
[42:55] Maverick. So if you were not familiar with
[42:57] the term, a legacy sequel is a film that continues the story
[43:00] after like a big time gap. Usually it reduces new
[43:02] characters alongside returning legacy ones.
[43:05] Or believe in the 2049 does fit the bill.
[43:08] What do you think about legacy sequels in general?
[43:10] I mean in general I'll just treat them like any other film.
[43:13] If the good the good, if the bad the bad.
[43:15] The concept is fine. I think it comes down to is the
[43:18] genuine reason for them to exist.
[43:20] This one, yes, because there was a whole world to explore in
[43:24] there. I mean, he mentions Top Gun
[43:26] Maverick. The weird thing about that is
[43:28] there wasn't really reason for that to exist.
[43:30] It didn't have that world, and yet it did succeed.
[43:32] And I think through that combination of the nostalgia
[43:35] people had for the original and just Tom Cruise being a madman
[43:38] and getting up there in an actual plane.
[43:40] Everyone getting up there an actual plane.
[43:42] Everyone getting up there, which we hadn't really seen.
[43:44] That was a big sell. Yeah, that was.
[43:45] The big and that thing, you've got to find the big sell and
[43:48] then you get others. I mean, we talked about maybe
[43:50] Poppins a few episodes ago, maybe Poppins Returns.
[43:52] I guess that would be a Lexi sequel.
[43:53] That's pretty good. Yeah.
[43:55] But then then you'll get stuff like Beetlejuice.
[43:57] Beetlejuice where it's fine but you'll never think about it like
[44:01] after you've watched it. Yeah.
[44:03] I mean, I think Lucas is kind of given the only real answer there
[44:05] was questionnaire. When they're done right or well,
[44:07] legacy sequels, yeah, great. When they're doing wrong, they
[44:11] can be pretty terrible. I think the problem we've had is
[44:13] that most of them I would say have been done wrong.
[44:16] The good ones like 2049, understand the account.
[44:19] Just give people the same thing. Again.
[44:20] Like we said, I think Top Gun Marvin works because it's about
[44:24] aging. It's about passing the torch.
[44:25] It uses the 30 odd year gap between the films as part of the
[44:29] story right into the story. The bad ones to me.
[44:32] Just trying to remind you of the original without adding anything
[44:34] new. Remember this line?
[44:36] Remember this spaceship? Yeah, he has a.
[44:39] Bit of music, yeah. Exactly.
[44:40] Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's not interesting
[44:42] storytelling. That's just like nostalgia
[44:44] mining to me. And there's plenty of examples
[44:46] of it in the big IPS. Star Wars, The Terminator, The
[44:49] Matrix, Alien, they've all done it.
[44:51] Does that better. We do get an early reference to
[44:53] the first film when Kane, the view of Gaff about Deckard.
[44:57] It's good to see Edward James almost again.
[44:58] So it does have that aspect, but it works.
[45:01] It doesn't feel shoehorned in because it makes sense as part
[45:04] of the investigation that he would go and talk to him so.
[45:06] Yeah, yeah, yeah. It does all legacy.
[45:08] Sequel is necessary. I mean, no, probably not later.
[45:11] I didn't need a sequel. But I think the question we
[45:13] asked, maybe you shouldn't be do we need this?
[45:15] But do you have something worth saying?
[45:17] If the answer to that is yes, I think we do, then I'm all for
[45:20] legacy sequels. Yeah, I don't have a problem
[45:22] with the Legacy sequel over a sequel itself, to be honest.
[45:26] I mean, I can take either of them as long as there's passion
[45:28] behind it and as long as there's a reason for it to exist,
[45:31] similar as what you guys are saying.
[45:32] And I think the ones that really work have an emotion and have,
[45:35] like Yousef said, a reason to be made.
[45:38] There's a fortune in nostalgia. People will go and see anything
[45:41] once, oh, I remember Indiana Jones, I'm a sucker for that.
[45:45] I'll go and see it and there's another one out tomorrow.
[45:47] I'm still going to pay money and go and see it on the big screen
[45:49] because there's this money in it.
[45:51] And you can see the films that have done that and are being
[45:54] made for that reason. The stand out a mile.
[45:56] But the ones that have been made through passion because they
[45:58] don't care about the money coming in, they stand out a mile
[46:00] as well. So the bad ones for me are some
[46:02] that just don't need to be made. And then the ones that really
[46:05] stand out for me, the ones that really work with the passion
[46:07] behind them, are Mad Max Fury, Rd., The.
[46:09] Creed. Definitely Creed and one that
[46:12] nobody talks about was a legacy sequel and everyone's forgotten
[46:15] about It is The Colour of Money, which is a legacy sequel of The
[46:18] Hustler. Yes, it is.
[46:19] Yes. And I think that's probably,
[46:21] that's probably me favorite legacy sequel of all time, if
[46:24] I'm honest. Scorsese taking the mantle.
[46:26] It's moving the story. It's exactly how it should be
[46:29] done. Yeah.
[46:30] Well, for his work on Blame No 2049, Denivial Nerve wasn't
[46:33] nominated for Best Director of the Oscars.
[46:35] The film was nominated for Best Picture, though losing of the
[46:38] same film that won Best Director.
[46:40] Do you remember what that was? Parasite No.
[46:43] It was the shape of water, Diego del Toro.
[46:47] Best. Director.
[46:47] Yeah. Right.
[46:48] Yeah, that really forgettable Oscar winner.
[46:51] Yeah, it is. Absolutely.
[46:53] Yeah, but for us in creating a sequel to a Stone called Classic
[46:56] that respects the original and finds its own voice.
[46:59] So I'm impressive work from the Navy on Nerve on Blade Runner
[47:01] 2049. 100% the cast. Denis Villeneuve assembled an
[47:11] eclectic cast for Blade Runner 2049, established stars, rising
[47:15] talents and some big supporting players.
[47:17] We'll be talking about House and Ford as Deckard, Anna De Almas's
[47:20] Joy and Sylvia Hawks's love in a bit.
[47:23] Let's start with our lead. Should we?
[47:26] So Ryan Gosling plays Officer KKD 6 Dash 3.7 to give him his
[47:31] volume. Yeah.
[47:33] A Nexus 9 replicant who works as a Blade Runner for the LAPD.
[47:36] We follow K's journey from obedient officer to someone who
[47:39] discovers he might be special, only to learn he's not, but
[47:42] chooses to do the right thing anyway.
[47:44] Yeah. Yeah.
[47:45] A complex arc for a complex character.
[47:47] So I'm handing off to a complex man.
[47:50] OK, Matt Howard. Ryan Gosling has right.
[47:53] Going to be me. Well, you went for that, though.
[47:59] I mean, Goslin, I mean, he's just consistently great anyway,
[48:02] So no surprise that he's great here.
[48:03] And he's always had that ability to go from something where he's
[48:07] really funny and he's really charming, like the nice guys are
[48:09] Barbie. But then he can go really
[48:11] buttoned up and quiet and intense like Drive.
[48:14] But he's really happy with very little dialogue.
[48:17] And this definitely fits that kind of Goslin performance.
[48:21] Kate thinks he knows who he is and who he is says very little.
[48:24] He'll be his commands and he goes home at the end of the day
[48:26] and he knows his place in society.
[48:28] But then he goes through that slow awakening of realizing
[48:31] there's more to him and his back story and there's more to this
[48:34] world, which is such a classic character arc.
[48:36] And Gosselin plays it really, really well.
[48:38] And he's completely on board with keeping that movie star
[48:41] charisma that he has. The way, for the most part, it's
[48:44] a very internalized performance. I mean, we've said it, but he
[48:47] looks amazing in that leather course.
[48:50] He just fits into the world and he fits into the vibe of the
[48:53] film. I don't think it would be in the
[48:55] conversation for my favorite Gosling performance, but he's
[48:58] great all the same. Yes.
[49:00] I mean, I think he's a really good protagonist and he has a
[49:03] really interesting arc at the start.
[49:05] He's exactly what Wallace and the LAPD want them to be, a
[49:08] Blade Runner who passes baseline tests, followers orders, goes
[49:11] into his holographic girlfriend. He's accepted that he's less
[49:14] than human, but then comes a wooden horse key to scores.
[49:17] His memories might be real and he basically turns into like
[49:20] Pinocchio. So it's interesting because he
[49:25] wants it. He wants to have been born a
[49:27] special, which is a pretty fundamental, like, human
[49:29] impulse. We all want to believe that we
[49:31] matter to some extent, surely. Yeah.
[49:33] So you go from thinking that he's nobody to believing he's a
[49:35] miracle child to discovering he's this in that replicant
[49:38] after all. And what's great is that it's
[49:40] that journey that changes him. At the end.
[49:43] He makes the choice to reunite decor with his daughter instead
[49:46] of following orders or joining the resistance.
[49:48] So what makes Case special isn't that he was born Italy chooses,
[49:52] and he makes the most human choice that you can.
[49:54] He chooses to help people. Well, actually, that might not
[49:57] be the most human choice, but I think we all wish it was.
[50:00] It is probably more human than human, and that's what he
[50:02] represents for me. They're telling us that humanity
[50:05] isn't about where you come from. It's about empathy and choosing
[50:08] to do what's right. And that's what he does.
[50:11] It sets up this chosen for narrative and then flips on his
[50:14] head for the better. I think it's really fantastic
[50:16] writing, and I think it's pretty classic Ryan Gosling, like
[50:20] you're saying. Matt, ever since Drive, one of
[50:21] the things he's been known for is playing like the silent
[50:24] protagonist, where he does a lot without many words, and that's
[50:27] what he does with care. Even at the start, when he's
[50:29] pretty emotionless, there's always something going on behind
[50:32] his eyes, like when he sees to Joshie.
[50:34] I've never retired something that was born.
[50:36] There's just enough there to make you kind of lean in a bit,
[50:39] I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[50:40] And he carries the film. He's in almost every scene.
[50:42] And when you're following a Pete Harrison Ford, which he is, and
[50:45] you kind of don't miss Ford too much, that tells you how good
[50:48] this is. Great character, great arc and I
[50:51] think great from Gosling as well.
[50:53] Yeah, I think he's a complete package.
[50:55] To be fair. He brings the physicality to the
[50:57] role. It's just absolutely complete.
[50:58] It's just everything that you need.
[51:01] And he's like you guys have said.
[51:02] I mean, he's always been very solid, but to me, a very robotic
[51:05] actor. But like, in a good way.
[51:07] Yeah. He's not wooden.
[51:08] He's just like, he's malleable, but he can be like even when
[51:12] he's dancing in La La Land, he looks precise.
[51:14] You know what I mean? He's got this kind of precision
[51:16] to his performance where you know that he, he thinks about
[51:18] it, he cares about it and every line is just being thought
[51:21] about. I mean, doing that baseline test
[51:24] and doing the dropping in and dropping in basically means to
[51:26] learn the lines. So you don't, you're not reading
[51:28] the lines, you'd read the emotion of the line.
[51:31] So to do that over, like, cells, cells, interlinked cells, and
[51:35] just to read it back and know what's happening and then
[51:37] deliver that to that level, you can tell it's just this depth
[51:40] that everybody's involved. To be fair, everyone kind of
[51:43] brings it. But I think Gosson leads the
[51:45] way. It's the believability of this.
[51:47] Like, you believe this guy. And he really had me doubting.
[51:50] Even after everything we've seen in the opening, even after we've
[51:53] seen him asleep in the spinner, waking up crashing through a
[51:55] wall, doing a baseline test, we know that he's got no soul.
[51:59] He's lieutenants taught him that.
[52:00] I'm still kind of doubting whether it's a replicant or not
[52:03] halfway through this film. Yeah.
[52:05] Same as he is. Like, I'm like, is there a
[52:07] chance that everyone else is kind of taking him for a ride
[52:09] because he plays it? So can Vincently so well, but so
[52:13] quietly? I think he's just one of the
[52:14] best actors of his generation and this really shows it.
[52:17] I would agree. I think he's great.
[52:18] Yeah, and Gosling was the only person ever really considered to
[52:21] play a care. Hampton Fancher said he was
[52:23] thinking of Gosling in the lead when he was developing the
[52:26] story. Yeah.
[52:27] When he told Ridley Scott that was who he wanted to cast, Scott
[52:30] said he got it. But when he was off the pot,
[52:32] Gosling accepted straight away. He said he looked the script,
[52:34] but the chance work of feeling from Roger Deakins is 1 made it
[52:37] for him. Yeah.
[52:38] Yeah, apparently when Harrison Ford was told he was thinking of
[52:40] Gosling, he was like, yeah, great.
[52:43] And then when Villeneuve came and he just went Ryan Gosling,
[52:45] yeah, great choice. It does seem like a bit of a no
[52:48] brainer but his character. Yeah.
[52:50] Yeah, yeah, definitely. So it's the first time that
[52:53] Gosling have played the lead in a big blockbuster film, So he's
[52:55] a bit nervous, but we only have calmed him down.
[52:58] And then Goslin said if you made a list of all the
[53:00] characteristics you hope for in a director and send it to Santa
[53:03] Claus, they'd be done evil. You've sitting under the tree
[53:05] Christmas morning, maybe a little drunk on eggnog, but he'd
[53:08] be there. I love that.
[53:11] Yeah, it was his first blockbuster, and he said he was
[53:13] overwhelmed by the scale of the set at first because he wasn't
[53:16] used to it. Yeah, I mean, not that you can
[53:18] tell it or think. Seems right at home.
[53:19] Exactly. And Lenny James, who plays Mr.
[53:22] Cotton, the orphanage manager, he said the cast had to follow
[53:25] really strict real estate in production.
[53:27] When they were offered the part they had to accept within 36
[53:29] hours and the scripts were incomplete that mostly just get
[53:32] the pages for scenes and their character was involved in right.
[53:35] Yeah, they got digital copies of the scripts and they get deleted
[53:38] immediately after they finished filming their scenes, so wow, no
[53:41] leaks on this one here. Right.
[53:43] Wow. No Oscar nominations for Ryan
[53:44] Gosling for his performances. Gabe, when of that year it was
[53:47] Gary Oldman for Darkest Hour. Oh yeah.
[53:50] But for us, carrying a huge blockbuster, bringing humanity
[53:52] to a replicant and holding his own against Harrison Ford,
[53:56] Pretty good stuff from Gosling. Oh yeah, top draw.
[54:01] The second male lead is Harrison Ford, returning as Rick Deckard
[54:05] 30 years after the events of the first film.
[54:07] We find Deckard hiding with his dog in the ruins of Las Vegas,
[54:11] right back into the story. He's captured by Love, rescued
[54:14] by Kay and Ben, reunited with the real Miracle Child, his long
[54:18] lost daughter. Yeah, just when he thought he
[54:20] was out, they pulled him back in Westie.
[54:22] Absolutely. Deckard and Harrison Ford.
[54:24] So how does he handle the return?
[54:25] I mean, he's always in for me. Let's be honest.
[54:28] He's never heard the equation. He's always, he's always got a
[54:31] seat at the table. It's another classic turn from
[54:33] Ford, but the great thing is this film does not depend or
[54:36] rely on him whatsoever. He is just there and it really
[54:39] works. There's a great, great subtle
[54:42] into this, a real subtle anger that he plays and he portrays it
[54:45] really well. There's no ego here to this
[54:47] performance whatsoever. It's just young Gossen and they
[54:50] share it. They share the space and they
[54:51] really work off each other and it works really well.
[54:54] What I love about this performance is that he's not
[54:57] necessarily trying to do the physical role.
[54:59] You can see that he cannot really do it and he's playing
[55:01] into that because we know he can.
[55:03] They look probably a little bit better than he's doing, but he's
[55:05] acting tired. He's acting like he's had
[55:07] enough. And then that's adding to the
[55:09] question, is this guy a replicant or isn't he?
[55:11] And he's just adding to the pot. All these different ingredients
[55:14] that keep coming up keep coming up.
[55:15] But for me, it's just the really emotional ending beats that he
[55:19] has. He's got these real emotional
[55:20] moments when he's talking to Wallace and says our eyes were
[55:23] green. Broke my heart in the cinema.
[55:25] That's great. I was like, oh, that's
[55:27] incredible, and it's from Harrison Ford.
[55:29] It was just such a good punch and beautifully delivered.
[55:32] But one of the things I've noticed watching it yet again,
[55:34] so it must be like fifth, maybe sixth time I've seen it doing it
[55:37] again. For this is when they're
[55:38] drinking in the office of the Whiskey, right?
[55:40] And they're sitting at the bar and you've got Ker, who puts his
[55:42] full hand around the glass, drinks it and puts it down.
[55:45] But then it cuts back to Ford and he's on his right hand and
[55:47] he's got his two fingers and they're just underneath the
[55:50] Tumblr, just supporting it as if he kind of gripped it properly.
[55:53] And then when he's holding the binoculars, he's got the same 2
[55:56] fingers aren't gripping the binoculars.
[55:58] Now if you go back to the original Blade Runner, but he
[56:00] breaks them two fingers on his right hand.
[56:02] Oh. Yeah.
[56:03] Yeah. Yeah, so he kind of used them
[56:05] properly in this. He kind of grabbed the glass or
[56:06] the binoculars. So it's really sort of bits in
[56:09] the performance where he's just, he's bringing something else to
[56:11] it and everyone's like he's just wearing a grey T-shirt.
[56:14] Yeah, watch it 6 times and they'll say what he's bringing
[56:15] to it. It's it's Harrison Ford and it's
[56:18] absolutely fantastic stuff. I agree.
[56:20] I mean, we talked about legacy sequels before and bringing back
[56:23] classic characters, and I think the way they handle Deckard here
[56:26] might be one of the gold standards.
[56:28] When you see people returning big roles in big series years
[56:31] later, I sometimes don't feel like I'm even watching the same
[56:34] character. Not here at all.
[56:35] This is totally Deckard. What's good is I've aged him.
[56:38] Like realistically, this isn't the Deckard who was hunting
[56:41] replicants. This guy's been in hiding.
[56:43] You've lost Rachel, you've lost his child.
[56:46] And I feed all of it. I'm by that.
[56:48] He's been sitting in a Vegas casino drinking and listening to
[56:50] Elvis for 30 years. I mean, there's worse ways to
[56:53] live in exile to. Be there.
[56:54] Oh, absolutely. GB is it?
[56:55] No. Millions of bottles of whiskey?
[56:59] Fine. And I think Ford plays it really
[57:02] well. He could have easily formed this
[57:04] in. He couldn't.
[57:05] He cares about it, doesn't he? He really does.
[57:07] He can tell. He.
[57:08] Can tell that he does. Yeah.
[57:09] A sense of desperation there. I mentioned some more specifics
[57:12] when we get to the end, but an excellent turn from Ford for me.
[57:15] Proper movie star, obviously, and this is his best in years, I
[57:18] reckon. Yeah.
[57:20] Yeah, I think there's an irony that out of all three classic
[57:23] characters that Ford has revisited, it's the one where he
[57:26] had the most miserable experience first time around,
[57:29] that he gets the most interesting material with.
[57:31] I mean, there was nothing left to do within.
[57:33] The only thing left to do with Solo was to get killed, which
[57:35] he'd always wanted anyway. But there's somewhere else to go
[57:38] with deck art, you know? What was his future like with
[57:41] Rachel? We see ultimately was a tragic
[57:43] 1, and he had to sacrifice a lot to keep their daughter safe.
[57:46] And we see the effects of that. We see the effect of the years
[57:50] and years of isolation and loneliness that he's put himself
[57:53] into, and we see what that's Dundrum.
[57:55] And to bring in his couch rock about finding some kind of
[57:59] redemption with his daughter. Just when we think the whole
[58:01] film is about key finding out who he is, which actually tends
[58:05] to be mostly relevant, that turn works really well and I think
[58:08] Ford is just so engaged with this material and completely
[58:12] responds to it. You can do it, isn't he?
[58:13] You can tell that he's. Yeah, hugely.
[58:15] Yeah, and when Ridley Scott first pitched the idea to
[58:17] Harrison Ford about a Blade run a sequel, he said the talked at
[58:20] length about what the role would be until they read on storyline.
[58:23] And then when he was happy with it, that's when Ford agreed to
[58:25] come back as Deckard. Nice.
[58:27] I want to be in it as little as possible, yeah.
[58:30] Whiskey. Exile Elvis.
[58:33] And I mean, well, this is how they do a legacy character, I
[58:38] think. The best example that I've seen
[58:39] and all the recent ones anyway. Yeah, yeah.
[58:42] The final scene Harrison Ford filmed was his final scene in
[58:45] the film, and apparently he enjoys his time on set so much
[58:48] that he got emotional when they're finished and some crew
[58:50] members began to cry. I mean, it's an emotional scene
[58:52] anyway. Yeah, You know, just a hand on
[58:54] the glass. So I can imagine he's just.
[58:56] I would. That's been wonderful to say.
[58:57] Wonderful for the crew as well. I think from the Ford as well.
[58:59] He hated the first making of Blade Runner.
[59:01] Yeah, but I think he sat in the theatre and watched it and just
[59:04] went, oh fucking hell, Ridley Scott's right.
[59:09] I need to make it up to him now, so I'll do that again when that
[59:12] ask us to. And he's waited this long, so
[59:14] he's really made it up to him, I think.
[59:15] He has, yeah. He's only grumpy when it comes
[59:17] to Star Wars, I think. Anything else, he loves it.
[59:19] Now he is, yeah. No major award recognition for
[59:23] Harrison Ford either, but for us returning to a famous franchise
[59:26] and adding newly as while delivering what came before.
[59:30] A good return from Harrison Ford.
[59:31] Really necessary, yeah. As well as the two way listers
[59:36] in the leads believe in the 2049 has a pretty impressive
[59:39] supporting cast as well. We've talked about Jared Letto
[59:42] was Neander Wallace on a now going to turn our attention to
[59:45] the 2 core female cast members and that all masters Kay's
[59:49] holographic companion Joy and Sylvia Hawks as well as his best
[59:53] Angel and the film's main antagonist love.
[59:56] Yes, two very different kinds of artificial ladies.
[1:00:00] How would they do it for you, Matt?
[1:00:01] I mean, the thing about the Amos is I'm always a little bit
[1:00:05] uncomfortable talking about it because I can't look at this
[1:00:07] performance without thinking. John, if you found a genie in a
[1:00:10] lamp who only gave you one wish, your wish would be joy.
[1:00:15] Absolutely. And a Domas holographic form
[1:00:18] cooking you dinner. That's your life.
[1:00:21] You know me too well, Matt. Yeah, you know you do.
[1:00:23] Well think it's all the way through Megan.
[1:00:24] I'd be honest, you sit there with the brownies head like
[1:00:27] weird science. You rumble me.
[1:00:32] Yeah, I make websites. I bet you do.
[1:00:39] Joy though, just such an interesting concept because
[1:00:42] there's so much fuss in the film about replicants developing and
[1:00:45] procreating. No one seems that bothered about
[1:00:47] AI and holograms who've developed to the point where
[1:00:50] they can physically interact with people now and see me have
[1:00:53] developed their own emotions and their own desires, which I think
[1:00:57] is a really interesting thing we've just put in the background
[1:00:59] there. I think if I was honest, if I
[1:01:01] was to from this film down a bit, it maybe it's a bit long.
[1:01:04] I think you could lose some of joy scenes, particularly the
[1:01:07] really weird 1. I don't know, Wesley's going to
[1:01:09] talk about that, but yeah, I bet you are.
[1:01:12] But that's nothing on Damos. I think she's really good in
[1:01:15] this. Yeah, she is.
[1:01:16] I mean, with Kay being so reserved because he is great at
[1:01:19] Joy, being so exuberant and, like, full of life, like a
[1:01:23] breath of fresh air. When she's on the screen, she's
[1:01:25] really warm. And again, I like how she's
[1:01:27] written. She's a hologram programmed to
[1:01:29] fulfill people's desire. She tells us that herself.
[1:01:31] Everything you want to see, everything you want to hear.
[1:01:33] So you buy a Joy. And if you want that, a dance.
[1:01:36] She'll be a great dancer. If you want that to read, she'll
[1:01:38] be a bookworm. And Kay wants to be special, so
[1:01:41] she wants that as well and pushes him down that path.
[1:01:44] He's Pinocchio. And she's like Jiminy, crickets
[1:01:47] chirping away in his. Yeah, Joy Mini cricket.
[1:01:51] Very good. But what's great is that unlike
[1:01:53] here with Joy, I think it turns out to be a lie.
[1:01:56] She ends up almost being like the femme fatale, a beautiful
[1:01:58] woman who turns out to be kind of all wrong.
[1:02:01] The moment that the giant hologram Joy calls him Joy.
[1:02:04] The end is the bit that's the reveal that it was all kind of
[1:02:07] porn of a programming. And it's brutal.
[1:02:09] He's got. It Yeah.
[1:02:10] I'd rather be called key anywhere much cooler than Joe.
[1:02:13] Definitely. Yeah, I'm an armat.
[1:02:15] Excellent at reading some much needed life into things and Joey
[1:02:18] adding more. Yes, there's some already pretty
[1:02:20] complex themes. I think she's a great supporting
[1:02:23] character. To make Joyce seem more
[1:02:25] artificial, the editor, Joel Walker, experimented by freezing
[1:02:28] her image for 9 frames before she responds to a question.
[1:02:31] So it looked like her program paused for a split second just
[1:02:34] before answering. And Villeneuve wasn't convinced
[1:02:37] though and just said I just have a respond normally please.
[1:02:39] Yeah, it's a nice idea, but doesn't need it.
[1:02:42] I like how the show she's a hologram of the star Winter
[1:02:44] changes outfits about five times in a few seconds.
[1:02:47] Yeah, which is like, really? Well, and the giant Joy in the
[1:02:50] hologram advertisement, that's supposed to be her default
[1:02:53] setting. So they're idea as K customized
[1:02:55] her voice and appearance. The advertisement version of Joy
[1:02:58] was voiced by an assistant editor called Mary Lucas which
[1:03:01] and she was meant to be dubbed by Anna de Armas, but Vila just
[1:03:04] decided to keep the voice over as.
[1:03:06] Is oh nice. Yeah, which again ties in the
[1:03:08] idea that Joy isn't real. She was just programming I
[1:03:11] guess. Yeah, I'll go into the second
[1:03:14] female member of the cast and probably one of the most
[1:03:16] important and overlooked of the film.
[1:03:18] I think it's still your hoaxes look lovely.
[1:03:19] I think should, like I've said before, totally out trains
[1:03:22] little for me. It makes them, to be honest,
[1:03:25] pretty unnecessary. Yeah.
[1:03:27] I think it's a fantastic performance and it's a brilliant
[1:03:30] villain. It's almost like a Bond body and
[1:03:33] a real troubled character. There's a lot here to her
[1:03:36] programming, which is kind of bounces off joy.
[1:03:40] It's that kind of counterbalance to that and the fact that she's
[1:03:42] dressed in white all the time, the fact that she denies her
[1:03:45] name, the fact that she's just got all of these really
[1:03:47] brilliant moments and plays the brutality brilliantly without
[1:03:53] overplaying it, though, when she goes in and gets Rachel's bones
[1:03:56] and kills the scientist. Oh, yeah, yeah.
[1:04:00] It's just brutal to bang. He's out and that's all she
[1:04:03] needs to do. And she never, ever seems hammy
[1:04:05] as a bad guy. I'm excited when she's on the
[1:04:07] screen. So I'm thinking something's
[1:04:08] going to happen here. Something bad's going to happen
[1:04:10] here. You know, when she just takes
[1:04:12] Rachel out, Bang, just cold blood.
[1:04:14] Does she want to do she not? But just.
[1:04:16] It's just a performance from Sylvia.
[1:04:17] Sylvia Hawks. I think she's just absolutely
[1:04:19] fantastic and disappears into the rule.
[1:04:21] I think much like Sean Young did, she just kind of disappears
[1:04:24] into this replicant and you just, you can just see her and
[1:04:27] she kind of personifies that role.
[1:04:28] Wonderful, wonderful bad guy for me and Lease Leto in the wings.
[1:04:32] Absolutely amazing. I agree, I like love as well.
[1:04:35] She's just kind of a female Terminator basically.
[1:04:38] So I mean going on maybe, but I think Sylvia hoax is great.
[1:04:42] I love a line delivery when she kills Joshi and she sees to a
[1:04:45] your tiny thing in the face of the fabulous knew your only
[1:04:47] thought is to kill it. I mean, I imagine The Fabulous
[1:04:50] You is not an easy line to deliver, but you don't even
[1:04:52] notice. She totally nails it.
[1:04:54] And when she scans Joshi to get into the computer and let's her
[1:04:57] head just bounce off the desk. I think my main criticism of the
[1:05:02] film comes around Love in that if anything, I agree.
[1:05:05] Wesley, I think she's underused and the film might have
[1:05:07] benefited from her Bay plot and that could have been Love
[1:05:10] carrying out her own investigation into the child.
[1:05:12] At the same time Cares there's some definite parallels between
[1:05:15] Love and care and that they both want to find the child to
[1:05:17] further out their own race. That could have been made more
[1:05:20] of maybe. Yeah.
[1:05:21] Which is excellent. And when she kills Joy by
[1:05:23] stomping on the emanator, I really know she's got to go and
[1:05:26] get, like, bad dog. That's great.
[1:05:29] As well. Brilliant.
[1:05:31] So yeah, a bit under. Use for me, but what we do get
[1:05:33] is really good. Yeah, yeah, fantastic.
[1:05:35] But in the first drafts of the script, Love was named Fraser,
[1:05:39] and Nyanda Wallace would call her Love, LOVE as a term of
[1:05:42] endemment and this change to Love LUV becoming her name.
[1:05:46] Like aura, love and then I guess.
[1:05:49] Love and joy. Is the idea it's like inside out
[1:05:52] characters? Yeah, yeah.
[1:05:54] Imagine these two and inside, I mean, it's punching sadness in
[1:06:00] the back of the head. Sylvia Hogg said that when she
[1:06:05] was describing Love's back story villain, you have said that she
[1:06:07] was made 12 years ago. So Hawks had this idea of making
[1:06:11] a behave like an immature and petulant 12 year old.
[1:06:13] That explains the tantrums and I guess.
[1:06:15] Yeah. And when she pushes Josh's hand
[1:06:17] into the glass, that's horrible. Yeah.
[1:06:20] Yeah. So that's our main cast.
[1:06:22] Ryan Gosling carrying the film as Kate Harrison Ford bringing
[1:06:25] it all back home as Deckard, and the top supporting work from
[1:06:28] Armas and Sylvia Hawks. Whether human, replicant or
[1:06:32] hologram, they all bring something to the film.
[1:06:35] Absolutely the middle. Heading into the middle, actor
[1:06:43] played from the 2049, and Kay's investigation leads him into
[1:06:46] darker territory. We're going to be looking at the
[1:06:48] scenes where Kay discovers he might be the chosen one when he
[1:06:51] visits Dr. Anna Staline. But first, it's a journey to an
[1:06:55] orphanage, isn't it? It is.
[1:06:57] So, having discovered the Miracle Child's DNA records, he
[1:07:00] traces the trio to San Diego's Moral Co Orphanage, building the
[1:07:04] ruins of a satellite dish. But he's not alone.
[1:07:07] Loves tracking his every move from Wallace Corp K shot down by
[1:07:10] scavengers, love bombs the hell out of them, and K discovers
[1:07:13] something they've all changed. Understanding of life.
[1:07:16] So, Westie, how does this play out for you?
[1:07:18] It plays out beautifully for me. I love that moment.
[1:07:20] Obviously he's a replicant who has to crash when it rains
[1:07:23] because when rain happens, it's going to be a negative turn for
[1:07:26] a replicant, isn't it? So let's let's put that in
[1:07:27] there, which is great, but I love the way the scam just fire
[1:07:30] that thing. It's like really Mad Max and it
[1:07:32] slows them down a bit, but then the AMP goes off and everything
[1:07:35] shuts down. And more importantly, Joy shuts
[1:07:37] down. Joy glitches out, which I find
[1:07:39] heartbreaking because you can't just like reaches out and then
[1:07:41] disappears and the whole thing crashes down.
[1:07:44] But it's when he comes out of the spinner, it's the lightning.
[1:07:46] This sequence, it's just so consistent and just so
[1:07:49] beautifully done. There's no real direction of
[1:07:52] light from anywhere, which just shows you that he's just out in
[1:07:54] a wasteland. It's just so flat, but again, so
[1:07:57] beautifully done. And here we have an action
[1:07:59] sequence, but we have a Denny Villeneuve action sequence.
[1:08:02] It's that good. You don't know when there's an
[1:08:04] edit, you don't see the cuts at all.
[1:08:07] So I've counted this. So from when the first explosion
[1:08:10] goes off, there's explosions. By the way, we're talking about
[1:08:13] 3 big explosions, people blowing up, 7 cuts, that's it.
[1:08:18] Then it cuts to love doing her nails looking up, which is
[1:08:22] perfect. Our eyes are covered again.
[1:08:24] She doesn't have a soul, it's a lack of humanity and nails are
[1:08:27] getting done. She doesn't care, they're just
[1:08:29] killing people. She's having a great time to be
[1:08:30] honest. She's just getting the job done.
[1:08:32] Cuts back to Key, another seven cuts.
[1:08:35] So we've got an action sequence with explosions and there's only
[1:08:38] 14 cuts. It's on a shot on a single
[1:08:40] camera. It's just so well thought
[1:08:43] through, so well refined. We've got stunt work in the
[1:08:46] middle of that. We've got people flying over the
[1:08:47] camera, we've got people, we've got Key getting fired against
[1:08:50] the spinner. None of it's really wide.
[1:08:52] Everything's considered in like a mid shot to know exactly who's
[1:08:55] going where and what's going to happen.
[1:08:56] But it's Villeneuve, just his control over an action sequence.
[1:09:00] It's so Nolanesque. And then you know that scene in
[1:09:03] Dunkirk where he's just covered and you know exactly how many
[1:09:05] explosions are going to hit before the camera cuts.
[1:09:07] It's just got that exact kind of vibe to it.
[1:09:10] And to be honest, I looked at it and I was kind of like, please
[1:09:12] turn this into space under a little bit, but it didn't, which
[1:09:15] is a bit of a let. Down.
[1:09:17] Imagine. I inside turning up.
[1:09:22] Yeah, perfect opportunity you could have had that, you know,
[1:09:24] the pirate ship on the real track over the top.
[1:09:26] That would have been great, but yeah, it's just so, so well
[1:09:29] thought through and it would have been so distracting from
[1:09:32] the story to have a massive set piece in here with Kay behind
[1:09:34] the spinner and shooting all the scandals, the falling down and
[1:09:37] the spinning out all over the place.
[1:09:38] Doesn't need it. Explosions 7 cuts, Back to love
[1:09:41] humanity story, 7 cuts. Kay wakes up on with the story.
[1:09:44] Perfect. I mean those wide shots showing
[1:09:47] the leaving LA going to the orphanage in the spinner
[1:09:50] stunning again. So San Diego is now like a
[1:09:52] desolate wasteland basically the only was using every inch of
[1:09:55] like the post apocalypse textbook.
[1:09:57] You're right Wesley, this is Mad Max style dystopian future.
[1:10:00] All space under if you prefer. Thank you.
[1:10:04] So the visuals are great and much is the cinematography, but
[1:10:06] there's some great visual ideas. I love that bit as well after
[1:10:09] the crash where joy's like blinking in and out over.
[1:10:12] Here. She's checking that he's all
[1:10:13] right, but then she vanishes to reveal the scavengers behind
[1:10:16] her. Great.
[1:10:17] And I know I mentioned Foley Towers way too much.
[1:10:21] I can't believe he stood it. You haven't got it in Blade
[1:10:23] Runner 2049. You cannot have.
[1:10:25] With another Armas Cuban accent, she reminds me of Manuel, the
[1:10:28] way she's like over over again. I learned it from a book.
[1:10:38] I can speak English. But hammer, hammer, hammer
[1:10:41] sandwich. Well, yeah, it's the visuals all
[1:10:45] together and using imagery to develop a world.
[1:10:47] That's something you first played when it does amazingly
[1:10:49] well. And I think the sequence does
[1:10:50] the same thing. It's great you've.
[1:10:53] Got folly towers in there every. Time.
[1:10:55] Every time. Yeah, and after this we go into
[1:10:58] the orphanage itself. I think Lenny James is great
[1:11:01] here. Yeah, yeah.
[1:11:03] Like if you US audience, he might not know him, he's mainly
[1:11:06] British TV, but he's always excellent whatever he's in and
[1:11:09] he's really good he's. In The Walking Dead as well.
[1:11:11] I think he's pretty. Big, that's true, yes.
[1:11:12] He was in The Walking Dead for a few series, wasn't he?
[1:11:15] This scene I think breaks a lot of people.
[1:11:17] You either end at this point or this is where you're.
[1:11:19] This isn't for me because it gets so drawn out.
[1:11:22] It slows down so much because the tension if K finds in the
[1:11:26] book with the pages torn out, that agonizingly slow walk to
[1:11:30] the furnace to find the horse. So it's very sore.
[1:11:33] But it's so compelling and a lot of clues are being drawn
[1:11:36] together. And I think the biggest clue
[1:11:37] though, and you know, do correct me if I've got this wrong, but
[1:11:40] in the orphanage, all the boys have shaved heads.
[1:11:43] Yes. Whereas in case implanted memory
[1:11:46] where he thinks he's being chased by the other boys, he has
[1:11:49] a full head of vests. That's not actually a young boy.
[1:11:52] That's a young Anna. Yeah, we.
[1:11:54] Discovered later and in is playing on the fact that you
[1:11:57] know, she looks slightly androgynous.
[1:11:59] She's gender neutral, just kind of rat really to disguise that
[1:12:03] fact. Now I'm not going to claim, you
[1:12:05] know, I'll discover that in the first watcher was only probably
[1:12:08] like 5th or 6th. It was like, Oh my God, that's
[1:12:10] Anna. That's not clear, but that's the
[1:12:12] kind of clue that I love like discovering on future like re
[1:12:15] watches. Yeah, it's just not necessary.
[1:12:17] It's. Not.
[1:12:18] Necessary. Just.
[1:12:19] Extra. It's extra, bit extra, yeah.
[1:12:21] Yeah, and you would never notice the first time round.
[1:12:23] It's always definitely, didn't I?
[1:12:25] Noticed it first time round of. Course you didn't.
[1:12:27] Yeah, no, of course I didn't shut up.
[1:12:30] And surely the guy who played by Lady James who leaves the
[1:12:32] orphans is inspired to some extent by Fagin from Oliver.
[1:12:36] He's. Got Oh, he's very Oliver.
[1:12:37] Yeah, yeah. It really is all these stuffy
[1:12:39] kids doing his bidding. I'm waiting for him to burst
[1:12:41] into song or something. He's called Mr. Cotton as well,
[1:12:44] which is a pretty defensive sounding name.
[1:12:46] It is, yes. Yeah, yeah.
[1:12:48] But again, this is a proper investigation film, and we'll
[1:12:50] see more of it. Yeah.
[1:12:51] Kay finds record that shows two children with identical DNA on
[1:12:54] the wooden horse hidden where he remembers hiding it.
[1:12:57] And the way it got him plays that moment.
[1:12:58] It's great. No word what you get the find
[1:13:01] that piece together in his head what's going on always feel that
[1:13:03] he's like holy moly. I mean he doesn't say it
[1:13:06] thankfully worst line ever. But again, the production design
[1:13:14] of the orphanage. How good is that top class?
[1:13:17] Amazing. A great place to take us on D2
[1:13:19] or two. Yeah, and the wastelands around
[1:13:21] the orphanage? They were filmed with a
[1:13:23] combination of miniature models, a custom built set and green
[1:13:26] screen by Frame Store and Rodeo FX did the orphanage itself.
[1:13:30] Again, the filming was stood in Budapest, with many of the sets
[1:13:33] only a minute's walk from one another.
[1:13:35] It looks great. It's expertly doing the way the
[1:13:37] weave these like different practical effects and digital
[1:13:39] effects together. It's like Christopher Nolan
[1:13:41] level. Yeah, the original Blade Runner
[1:13:44] was Co written by David Webb Peoples, and there's a bit of a
[1:13:47] nod to him in this sequence. Peoples also wrote Soldier in
[1:13:50] 1998 and said that in his mind, the film was set in the Blade
[1:13:55] Runner universe. No one else's mind just did.
[1:13:58] Stone, Kurt Russell, if we can remember that one.
[1:14:00] The design of the big garbage dump as we see here, almost
[1:14:03] identical to the ones we see in Soldier.
[1:14:06] Yeah, Kurt Russell is the redeeming feature, I think.
[1:14:09] I mean, people just like, I recognize them.
[1:14:12] And then Villeneuve was like, Oh yeah, we're just found about the
[1:14:14] back. No one else has used them since
[1:14:17] 98. So yeah, Blade Russell should
[1:14:20] have called it. Blade, Russell.
[1:14:23] But those big dumper things as well, those big dumper things as
[1:14:28] well, the design and the way they're framed in the shot, it
[1:14:30] really reminded me of June, which we'll never, obviously.
[1:14:33] Went Oh yeah. So that's key of the orphanage.
[1:14:35] Missile strikes, childhood memories and more impossible
[1:14:38] discoveries. He's starting to believe he
[1:14:40] might be the miracle child. Should we see if he's right?
[1:14:43] Let's see if he's right. From there, Kay's investigation
[1:14:48] leads him to Stelline Laboratories and Dr. Anna
[1:14:51] Stelline, the replicant memory maker played by Carla Jury, and
[1:14:54] what he discovers about confirming suspicions his
[1:14:57] memories are real. Around the same time, Kate takes
[1:14:59] Joy off grade with an emanator and in a scene that pushes all
[1:15:03] kinds of boundaries, she arranges a get together with
[1:15:05] replicant prostitute Mariette, played by Mackenzie Davis.
[1:15:09] Indeed, a get get together. Lovely.
[1:15:13] Are you taking Anna Stelline or the apartment encounter?
[1:15:16] I'll go for Stelline because this is another scene that
[1:15:19] repairs a lot on repeat viewings because knowing what we know by
[1:15:23] the end, that reason she gives have been isolated because the
[1:15:26] parents put her in this dorm basically because she has a
[1:15:29] compromised immune system. We know that's a lie.
[1:15:32] That's not what happened. And I think Called Jury is so
[1:15:35] good here. She's got this very light,
[1:15:38] ethereal quality to this performance, which I think
[1:15:41] Congress so well to like the tension you get in Gosling's
[1:15:44] performance and she should be miserable just stuck in this
[1:15:47] dorm, but she's making these memories.
[1:15:50] She's playing with imagery and sound like this character.
[1:15:53] To me, it almost feels like this is the one that V Love most
[1:15:56] empathizes with. You get the impression that
[1:15:58] like, he'd be all right if that was his existence in a way, just
[1:16:01] making like visuals and sound to people.
[1:16:04] But this is obviously when you start to get the ambiguity of
[1:16:07] this memory that Kia has, her reaction to it, when she sees
[1:16:10] it, she clearly recognizes it as her own memory, which will all
[1:16:14] eventually tie in with the revelation that she's Deckard's
[1:16:17] daughter. So, so many seeds are being
[1:16:19] planted here, but they're not hammered home.
[1:16:21] And you're also getting the scene, one of my favorite images
[1:16:24] of the film, where she's looking through the view Finder and we
[1:16:27] know Keir's on the other side, so he's looking at her, but his
[1:16:30] reflection is behind her, so it's like he's looking over her
[1:16:33] shoulder at the same time. So there's a lot that's packed
[1:16:36] in the scene, but it's just played with such a lightness of
[1:16:38] touch. It really is.
[1:16:40] I mean, the director has to have some level of expertise in,
[1:16:43] like, lots of different kinds of creativity, I think, in
[1:16:45] overseeing a film. And one of the things I would
[1:16:47] look for is how they handle exposition scenes.
[1:16:50] Yeah. Moments where, like, the most
[1:16:51] important thing is the word being said.
[1:16:53] That's kind of the case. Yeah.
[1:16:54] Where. And I explained who she is,
[1:16:56] which is obviously important later, and how memories work.
[1:16:59] And they do it sitting in a big MD room because she's in
[1:17:02] quarantine for The challenge we only have has is to make it not
[1:17:05] dull. And I don't think it is at all.
[1:17:08] Quite the opposite, no? No, definitely not I.
[1:17:10] Like how subtle the visuals are. There was like birthday party
[1:17:12] memories and holograms around them.
[1:17:14] Yeah, great. And.
[1:17:16] I agree, Matt. Carla's.
[1:17:17] You use Anna. She doesn't have much to do, but
[1:17:19] I think she's really good. She's got this real warmth,
[1:17:21] like, isolated from the world, but creating connection for
[1:17:24] others, like this great lady. Yeah.
[1:17:26] And after being reserved for the entire film, how great was it
[1:17:29] when Kay and Gosling let loose? When he's like.
[1:17:32] God damn it. It's amazing.
[1:17:34] I love it. So so good, really powerful.
[1:17:37] It's her delivery as well as just crying knowing the truth.
[1:17:39] It is. It's fantastic.
[1:17:41] Great character, I really remember him.
[1:17:42] I agree. I think she's great.
[1:17:44] And it's an exposition scene that doesn't really feel like
[1:17:46] exposition, which is how it is done well.
[1:17:48] But I think yeah. Yeah, it's an introduction
[1:17:50] scene. That's actually exposition.
[1:17:51] Yeah, and after working with Fela von Sicario, it was
[1:17:54] reported that Emily Blunt had been offered a part and played
[1:17:56] runner but had to say no, she was pregnant at the time.
[1:17:59] It's not been said what the role was, but it must have either
[1:18:02] been and Stelline or Love. You could do either, I think,
[1:18:04] couldn't you, Emily? Blue.
[1:18:06] Easily. Yeah, easily.
[1:18:07] Easily. Would have been great as either.
[1:18:08] So Carlos, you got the part after auditioning, and
[1:18:11] apparently because the script was so secretive, she auditioned
[1:18:14] by doing a scene from X Buckner. No nice.
[1:18:16] The dance. Question, right?
[1:18:17] The dancing one. Yeah, the dancing.
[1:18:19] Was it? So leave me with this scene.
[1:18:22] Obviously it's the threesome between, you know, the the
[1:18:27] prostitute and you've got joy and you've got care and they're
[1:18:31] all coming together and you have this incredible moment case
[1:18:33] apartment. But I think the visuals and the
[1:18:35] idea behind this sequence is absolutely incredible.
[1:18:39] This is an episode of Black Mirror in about 8 minutes.
[1:18:45] Imagine flash art comes in wolf, this kicks the door down.
[1:18:53] That'll be amazing. I'll be up for that.
[1:18:55] But not, I mean, it's not even 8 minutes is that, let's just say
[1:18:57] like 4 minutes, but just the idea behind it.
[1:19:00] So you've got an AI and then you've got a replicant, which is
[1:19:03] the step up, and then you've got a human.
[1:19:04] So the AI wants to be a replicant.
[1:19:06] It wants to be able to go wherever it wants.
[1:19:07] The replicant wants to be human. Yeah, everybody can't and it
[1:19:10] can't be human. But the human just wants to be
[1:19:12] loved and wants connection and can't find that.
[1:19:14] So there's all these steps of this kind of need and the three
[1:19:18] levels of being that are coming together to try and find some
[1:19:22] kind of necessary connection between all three of them.
[1:19:25] None of them can find it. Yeah, I don't think they get any
[1:19:28] PC. I don't think they get any
[1:19:29] pleasure out with this whatsoever.
[1:19:31] I think that's the whole point. And I'm so pleased that will you
[1:19:34] have played this the way he did, because there's a real subtle
[1:19:37] poetry to this, especially when they get both getting undressed.
[1:19:40] I mean, when they come together, they have visuals that are just
[1:19:42] absolutely breathtaking. I was like, I was just, I was
[1:19:46] welling up in the cinema going there.
[1:19:47] It's just fucking excellent the way that's coming together.
[1:19:50] It's so beautifully done and so kind of tastefully done.
[1:19:53] It is, I think it really, it really works on that level that
[1:19:56] he doesn't go all the oven on it.
[1:19:58] Imagine, I mean, imagine what he would do.
[1:20:02] He'd be crashing through walls. All right, I'll tell you that,
[1:20:04] bud. But it's it's the whole point.
[1:20:08] It's like it's is Joy breaking a program in here?
[1:20:10] Is she going, you know, off kilter?
[1:20:12] Is she going too far? Is she now in love?
[1:20:15] Is Kay a human? Is he not routing it anymore?
[1:20:18] It's all of these ideas that I think, well, we are now more
[1:20:21] than ourselves. Especially when she's getting
[1:20:22] undressed, when they're both getting undressed in that way.
[1:20:25] And you get one layer and then the other.
[1:20:27] And then it's that slow walk towards Kay.
[1:20:29] And then what does it do? It cuts to the Billboard.
[1:20:31] And you just have everything you want to hear, everything you
[1:20:34] want to see. Enjoy.
[1:20:36] Yeah, that's her programming. And that's exactly what she's
[1:20:38] done for Kay. Just give him everything he
[1:20:40] wants to hear and everything he wants to see.
[1:20:43] Let's just say it works on the emotional level as well as it
[1:20:45] does as a physical one, and they've actually going to think
[1:20:47] they're going to achieve that. And do they?
[1:20:49] I don't think they do. Like it says on the Billboard,
[1:20:51] it's everything they want to hear, everything they want to
[1:20:53] say, but that doesn't make it true.
[1:20:55] Yeah, I mean, when I heard they were making a Blade without
[1:20:57] sequel, there were a few things I was expecting to say, but a
[1:21:00] threesome probably wasn't one of the.
[1:21:02] I agree, Wesley. I think it's really like
[1:21:04] tastefully done. It's not quite.
[1:21:05] Sure, Beautifully done. Yeah, it's like relevant to the
[1:21:08] themes of the film. And it's quite sad, really, if
[1:21:10] you think about it. It's just this real need and
[1:21:12] this desire for something that's never going to satisfy any of
[1:21:16] them. Yeah, there was a sign of the
[1:21:17] sewers, but I think the effects were kind of joining Joy and
[1:21:19] Mariotte together. Oh, that beer in the face is a
[1:21:22] line, and it looks like a third person part Mackenzie Davis,
[1:21:27] which that's no bad thing, obviously, but also works as a
[1:21:30] metaphor for what's happening. Case trying to create something
[1:21:33] real out of two people who get called artificial.
[1:21:36] But maybe most interesting to me is when Mariette is a joy.
[1:21:39] I've been inside of you. Not as much there as you think,
[1:21:41] because Mariette seems to look down on joy the same way.
[1:21:44] Humans doing replicants a bit. So yeah, exactly.
[1:21:46] And replicants behaving like humans.
[1:21:49] It's all well shot. And by the way that two women
[1:21:51] face in and out of sync, I find it all quite mesmerizing to
[1:21:54] watch. I think it's great.
[1:21:55] I think it's really it's just visually poetic.
[1:21:57] Yeah, it is. And this threesome scene was
[1:21:59] shot for real, without any green screen and minimal CGI.
[1:22:03] Fiendlerf didn't want them to be perfectly In Sync, so they
[1:22:05] filmed Ryan Gosling and Mackenzie Davis 1st and she had
[1:22:09] freedom to do what she liked. They then filled her with Anna
[1:22:11] de Armas and the effects supervisor John Nelson directed
[1:22:15] her from behind the camera. So Joy is close to mimicking
[1:22:18] Mariette, but not perfectly annoying.
[1:22:20] Yeah, I think they've. Recorded it with four goal poor
[1:22:22] cameras in the corners of the room to ensure that every angle
[1:22:25] and from that they could like triangulate.
[1:22:27] Howard should then look on Roger Dickens camera, the main one
[1:22:29] pretty. Clever.
[1:22:30] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we made it through the
[1:22:33] middle of Blade in the 2049 kids discovered his true identity.
[1:22:36] Or he thinks he has joy, is trying to become a real girl.
[1:22:40] OK, Thinks she is time to talk about some of the crew behind
[1:22:43] the camera I think. Yeah, let's do that.
[1:22:49] The crew. As we've been talking about in
[1:22:53] EV, and I've worked with a huge crew to bring Blade from our
[1:22:56] 2049 to life, we're going to be talking about Hans Zimmer and
[1:23:00] Benjamin Wallfish, who created the soundtrack, as well as the
[1:23:03] stunning visuals from DP Roger Deakins and the effects teams.
[1:23:07] But first, let's talk about the screenplay.
[1:23:09] Should we? Let's do it.
[1:23:11] The credited screen rails on Blade when the 2049 were Hampton
[1:23:14] Fancha and Michael Green Fancha Co wrote the original Blade when
[1:23:18] I'm 1982 so it was brought back by Ridley Scott and Michael
[1:23:21] Green with less experienced but had a notable CV of his own with
[1:23:25] credits on Alien, Covenant and Logan.
[1:23:28] Right. How did they do with the right
[1:23:30] as he had? Oh man.
[1:23:31] I find there's this like real tension in the writing because
[1:23:35] the original is so much about the atmosphere that the plot
[1:23:38] takes a back seat. In this one, it goes right back
[1:23:40] into that atmosphere, but it also tries to be more plot
[1:23:44] driven at the same time with this mystery.
[1:23:46] And I think just occasionally there's this tension where it
[1:23:48] doesn't quite get the balance right.
[1:23:50] So the atmosphere is slow and languid, but the plot kind of
[1:23:55] wants to get a move on. And it can be a bit hard to
[1:23:57] follow at times. And there are moments where I
[1:23:59] think, is this being deliberately vague or did I miss
[1:24:02] something? You know, why does K have the
[1:24:04] horse memory? Is that just a huge coincidence?
[1:24:07] Is it there on purpose? Is it just left for you to make
[1:24:09] your own mind open? Which case, fine, But it's
[1:24:11] something that just stands out a little bit.
[1:24:13] And I think this is the occasional plot hole.
[1:24:15] Stands out like love not once, but twice.
[1:24:18] To see him in these thoughts in the police headquarters and
[1:24:21] straight up brutally murder someone and gets out again with
[1:24:24] no problem, which, again, because there's so much to take
[1:24:26] in, those things don't hit you at first, but when you come
[1:24:29] back, you think, oh, hang on, that doesn't quite hang
[1:24:31] together. Yeah.
[1:24:32] What it wants to talk about what it what it means to be human.
[1:24:35] What do memories mean? What's it mean to being?
[1:24:37] That's fantastic, all that's great.
[1:24:39] So how it talks about it though, where I think it just chained
[1:24:42] itself to this plot where afterwards you go hang on a
[1:24:44] minute. The oddest least wants me that
[1:24:47] it doesn't quite tell. So it's really good, but only up
[1:24:50] until a certain point with the plot where it just gets a little
[1:24:53] wobbly at times. I agree with you, I think when I
[1:24:55] first saw the film, like I said, I was pleasantly surprised with
[1:24:58] the writing because like the first one, it explores pretty
[1:25:00] deep themes around existentialism and what it means
[1:25:03] to be human like you're saying. Where was a little disappointed
[1:25:06] though was that I thought when exploring the same themes as the
[1:25:08] first film. As I've watched it more though,
[1:25:10] I couldn't appreciate it more because I think it does what the
[1:25:12] first film does but does spin it a bit and comes in from a
[1:25:15] different angle. I said before in the first film
[1:25:18] asks what makes us human and this as does being special make
[1:25:22] you human and the answer through key is no.
[1:25:24] It's the choices you make that make you a good human.
[1:25:27] I like the subversion of the Chosen 1 narrative.
[1:25:29] We think he is the chosen 1, he thinks he's the chosen one and
[1:25:32] then he's kind of not. I could have been deflating, but
[1:25:35] here it's the point. K becomes special, not through
[1:25:38] birth or through the choices that he makes.
[1:25:40] And there's a couple of things I've seen in the film get
[1:25:42] criticized for in the writing. One is being too slow.
[1:25:45] I don't mind the piercing, but I get the criticism.
[1:25:48] What doesn't help, like I mentioned, is there's no B plus.
[1:25:51] It's all K. And I think it might have
[1:25:52] benefited from seeing more of 1 loves up to all the replica
[1:25:55] resistance. We'll see in the end.
[1:25:57] Something they couldn't wait to the ties in.
[1:25:59] Yeah, but another criticism I've seen that I don't agree with as
[1:26:02] people saying. So we still don't know if Decor
[1:26:05] is a replicant or a human, then what's the point?
[1:26:07] But not revealing that is the right choice for me.
[1:26:10] Yeah, it's one of those things where the question is way more
[1:26:13] interesting than the answer could ever be.
[1:26:15] Not revealing that is the point. Exactly.
[1:26:18] We don't know that is the point, because we can't tell the
[1:26:20] difference between human replicants.
[1:26:22] How come we see a bit of difference?
[1:26:23] Exactly. So on the whole, I think this is
[1:26:25] how you write a sequel to a classic.
[1:26:27] You don't try to recreate it. I'll go for a lot to nostalgia.
[1:26:29] You continue the discussion in a way that's interesting with some
[1:26:33] new ideas. Ideally, that's what this does.
[1:26:36] It could have been more going on plot wives maybe, but I think
[1:26:38] the hardest bit exploring the themes, I think it does that
[1:26:41] really well. Yeah, I think bringing the whole
[1:26:43] world back to life, like you said, is the hardest thing to
[1:26:47] do. And Hampton Fancher wrote the
[1:26:48] original, but I think he does a really good job of the world
[1:26:51] building again, but the evolution of that world and the
[1:26:54] evolution isn't positive, which, again, could have been a massive
[1:26:57] downer and they could have played on that, but they don't
[1:26:59] really. Again, it's the human elements
[1:27:01] of it, the push through, and there's elements to the puzzle
[1:27:03] that are confusing. But then again, it's supposed to
[1:27:06] be you're not supposed to know what's going on.
[1:27:08] You're supposed to be kind of pulled from pillar to post a
[1:27:10] little bit, and you're supposed to be in the same shoes as Ki,
[1:27:13] guess. And there's this real ambiguity
[1:27:15] and there's this real mystery that still exists in the Blade
[1:27:18] running universe. And that's the whole point is
[1:27:20] that you're trying to create humans.
[1:27:21] Well, how do you do that? What does it mean to be human?
[1:27:24] What does it mean to be real? And I think that's what's really
[1:27:27] strong in the right and that they didn't ham that up or
[1:27:29] overplay that. They found another way to tell a
[1:27:32] very similar story, but it's very, very different in its
[1:27:35] approach. Yeah, I think that's excellently
[1:27:38] done in the screenplay. And I think a lot of people
[1:27:40] reading this would have been very, very excited about it
[1:27:43] because it seems very fresh. It seems very new, but it seems
[1:27:46] very familiar. And that's what they've done.
[1:27:48] They've taken the familiar beats and they've kind of upgraded
[1:27:51] them a little bit. Like I said at the top, like
[1:27:53] Label has a Nexus 6, and they've just written the Nexus 9.
[1:27:56] They've written the next version of that screenplay.
[1:27:58] And in the world of cinema, especially since 2017 to now,
[1:28:02] you need to have a lot of questions thrown in, but you
[1:28:05] need to have a lot of answers thrown in as well.
[1:28:07] And when you don't have the answers, it's frustrating.
[1:28:09] But what this does is it raises more questions than it does
[1:28:12] answers. But the answers you get are
[1:28:14] really satisfying. And the questions that you get,
[1:28:16] I'm quite happy to leave as questions.
[1:28:18] And I think they did all of that in the screenplay and it really
[1:28:21] comes together. Yeah, I think it's all doing
[1:28:23] intentionally, isn't it? Seems like as well.
[1:28:24] Very much so. I feel like when I'm watching
[1:28:26] the film, I'm watching the screenplay.
[1:28:28] Yeah, yeah. So when Blade Runner 2049
[1:28:30] started moving forward, Fancher was invited back to Rider by
[1:28:33] Ridley Scott, and Scott said Francis's response when he asked
[1:28:36] him was, oh shit, not again. So Fancher ended up writing the
[1:28:40] story as a 110 page novella, and that was then handed to Michael
[1:28:44] Green, who had worked the Scotland Alien Covenant to turn
[1:28:47] it into a screenplay. Nice.
[1:28:49] Or she's not again for I was thinking it first as well.
[1:28:51] Yeah, exactly. Thanks for everyone was
[1:28:53] thinking. Yeah.
[1:28:54] Michael Green said the fun to the original draft was called
[1:28:57] Acid Zoo and the Deckard died at the end, so that was swiftly
[1:29:00] changed, I imagine. So Speaking of crazy titles,
[1:29:03] let's see if there's any others. So the other titles were
[1:29:05] considered as well. One working title was Queensboro
[1:29:08] after the bridge that Andrew Kosovo had across when he met up
[1:29:11] with Fancha to keep it secret. The production title was Triboro
[1:29:15] after another bridge, the love bridges.
[1:29:17] These guys like just the suggestion for the actual title
[1:29:23] was Android's Dream, and the one that came closest to being used
[1:29:27] was Blade Runner. Time to live.
[1:29:29] Rise. Yeah, Roy Banney's final words
[1:29:31] are time to die in the first one on there.
[1:29:33] A little bit on the nose maybe? Maybe it sounds a bit more like
[1:29:36] a computer game. It does.
[1:29:38] It really does. Yeah.
[1:29:39] Label on 2049. Not massively original, but it
[1:29:41] works for what it does. Oh yeah, I like it.
[1:29:44] Like it's really good. And the new characters were
[1:29:46] given names to tie into the themes as well.
[1:29:48] So Nyander Wallace's name comes from Neanderthal species of
[1:29:52] humans that lived alongside Homo sapiens for dying out about
[1:29:55] 40,000 years ago. Right.
[1:29:57] Well, tying into replicants living alongside Homo sapiens in
[1:30:00] the films, I guess. Which nice idea.
[1:30:03] Yeah. And then the name Anasteline,
[1:30:05] that's similar to Anastelin, which is a peptide studied for
[1:30:09] its anti cancer properties. Although there's no evidence in
[1:30:12] the film this was intentional. Right.
[1:30:13] Seems like a bit of a coincidence though.
[1:30:15] If not, yeah, I think. Yeah, I guess so, yeah.
[1:30:17] We mentioned Pale Fire by Vladimir Nabokov earlier as
[1:30:21] being part of the baseline test if you remember, and we see it
[1:30:24] in the film as well. Yeah, we do, yeah.
[1:30:26] Kay's reading it in his apartment, and Joy picks it up
[1:30:28] and makes it very obvious watches hold nothing.
[1:30:31] It really does. Yeah, Navika also wrote Lolita,
[1:30:34] unless you'd be reading that. Let's leave that there.
[1:30:40] Imagine if Kubrick did Pale Fire.
[1:30:44] And when Kane Joy go on the roof of Kay's apartment is a pretty
[1:30:47] big sign seeing Mobius 21. Then there's gas, now added as a
[1:30:51] reference to the artist Mobius, whose illustration to the
[1:30:53] influence the look of the original.
[1:30:55] Yeah, that's right. OK.
[1:30:58] They do like a reference in this film.
[1:30:59] Nice. Before we finish on the right as
[1:31:01] we have our next ATR MP, one question.
[1:31:04] It's on the themes of the film and comes from Gareth Bin Moore.
[1:31:07] Hello, Gareth. Hello, Gareth.
[1:31:09] So, Gareth asks, do you think Blade Runner 2049 ultimately
[1:31:12] argues that humanity is defined by our memories or choices or
[1:31:16] something else entirely? And how does that compare to the
[1:31:19] message of the original film? Question from Gareth.
[1:31:23] Yeah, it's a deep one. What do you think that?
[1:31:26] I think I feel like I need to deliver a 5000 word essay by the
[1:31:29] end of the week. What do we define buying this
[1:31:33] one? I think it's choices for me
[1:31:35] because this film explicitly says that memories can be
[1:31:38] created in the one, necessarily be your own, and they can be
[1:31:41] manufactured by someone else for their reason like yours.
[1:31:44] Whereas people can try and force you to make a choice, but it's
[1:31:48] ultimately up to you to make it, which care does at the end.
[1:31:50] And maybe humanity is making a choice that's a difficult one as
[1:31:54] opposed to an easy one, which again, I think is what care does
[1:31:56] at the end. And then compared to the
[1:31:58] original 1, I feel like the original 1 asked the question
[1:32:01] and this is the one that answers it really.
[1:32:03] So the first one does kind of say what does it mean to be
[1:32:05] human? And I think this one answers
[1:32:07] that. Well, yeah, I think I was kind
[1:32:09] of hit on what makes this work from a writing point of view
[1:32:11] that we're talking about. It develops the questions.
[1:32:14] The original, your first blazer when I framed humanity through
[1:32:17] like, empathy, an experience where the void camp test
[1:32:20] literally measures empathy. Do you feel sorry for a torn
[1:32:22] line back? It asks.
[1:32:24] That's what makes you human. But 24 United says, yeah, it's
[1:32:27] about choice. The baseline test measures
[1:32:29] obedience. It's making sure that Kate
[1:32:31] doesn't choose. And he goes on to make choices
[1:32:34] that define him and the narrative.
[1:32:36] What I know is as well is what's not said, and neither film even
[1:32:40] suggests that it's biology than they see human.
[1:32:43] It's what's inside you, spiritually and psychologically,
[1:32:45] they both say, which is interesting.
[1:32:47] Yeah, I'm like you just touched on The Edge, and I don't think
[1:32:49] it's about anything physical, but for me, it's about free
[1:32:52] will. And I think Garrett's question
[1:32:54] answers itself, is it defined by our memories or our choices?
[1:32:57] But I think our choices then define our memories.
[1:33:01] So it's what you choose to do then gives you the memories.
[1:33:03] And I think what Batty does at the end of the first one, he
[1:33:05] says I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
[1:33:07] And he lists all the things he's seen, but that wasn't his choice
[1:33:10] to see them. Somebody else's choice to put
[1:33:13] him in that place. And that's not a place he wanted
[1:33:15] to be. And that's the whole point of
[1:33:16] this is that Kay puts himself in places that he wants to be and
[1:33:20] he makes a choice at the end. That deck had died out there.
[1:33:22] You drowned out there. Now I'm going to take you to
[1:33:24] your daughter. I'm going to, I've made a choice
[1:33:26] and that's my memory. And that's his last memory and
[1:33:28] what leaves him to ultimately be the hero and to die a human in
[1:33:33] his own mind because he made a choice and created his own
[1:33:35] memory of that choice. So I think that what that's what
[1:33:37] this film is saying is that you have, you have to make choices
[1:33:40] in life that then defines your memories and that then defines
[1:33:43] who you are. Because your choices can either
[1:33:45] be to help somebody or to hurt somebody, or to help yourself or
[1:33:48] to hate yourself. So it's about really thinking
[1:33:50] about what choices you're going to make and making them for the
[1:33:52] good of yourself and the good of humanity.
[1:33:55] And that way you become human and everybody works together.
[1:33:58] That's what care does. Exactly.
[1:34:00] Yeah, it all comes together that way, yeah.
[1:34:02] Or for their work on Blavery 2049, Hampton Funchi and Michael
[1:34:05] Green were not nominated for Best Adapted Screenplay of the
[1:34:07] Oscars. Michael Green was nominated for
[1:34:09] Logan or lost out to James Ivory for Call Me By Your Name.
[1:34:13] Oh, right. Yes, OK.
[1:34:15] Yeah. For Rosie, though, in writing a
[1:34:16] sequel that explores new ground in a familiar world, some good
[1:34:20] science fiction writing who found here in green.
[1:34:22] I think it's lovely stuff. Lovely stuff.
[1:34:26] Not my words. From the writing, it's on to the
[1:34:33] music. And the composers on Blade
[1:34:35] Runner 2049 were Hans Zimmer and Benjamin Wallfish.
[1:34:39] Zimani's no introduction, legendary composer behind
[1:34:42] counters major films. And Benjamin Warfish had
[1:34:45] composed for 21 films before this, the most well known,
[1:34:48] probably the unique of it in 2017.
[1:34:51] Yeah, OK. Yes.
[1:34:52] Following on from Vangelis in the first film.
[1:34:54] No easy task question. So how did Zimmer and Warfish
[1:34:58] do? Pretty well, didn't they?
[1:34:59] I mean, they did. All right.
[1:35:00] Let's be honest. Yeah.
[1:35:03] I've never listened to this in its own right prior to this
[1:35:07] podcast. Actually, just now I thought,
[1:35:08] well, I need to actually dive into this soundtrack because it
[1:35:11] is so intertwined with the visuals.
[1:35:14] It is like a tapestry where it's it's like putting threads
[1:35:18] through leather and it's just kind of just tied together.
[1:35:21] All of it is and it just wraps itself around it where you can't
[1:35:24] actually differentiate from what you're seeing to what you're
[1:35:27] hearing. It is a beautiful meld of them
[1:35:29] both the visuals and this sensory exploration.
[1:35:33] And that's what I mean, there's no real themes.
[1:35:35] There is just soundscapes and they create these huge
[1:35:39] soundscapes, these big booms, these big sound effects that
[1:35:42] kind of tie into it. And then you get them nods to
[1:35:45] Vangelis, but just in the sound, them synth sounds and they're
[1:35:49] all got these sweeping mortars, all sounds like the water that
[1:35:52] we get at the end. It all sounds like the the whole
[1:35:55] soundtrack is crashing against that seawall.
[1:35:57] It's all spinners, it's all in the air.
[1:35:59] It's all just this big imposing sense of doom and sense of dread
[1:36:04] that's just hanging over the whole place.
[1:36:06] And then other times it's the clouds and it's just, you know,
[1:36:09] the the actual lack of rays of sunshine.
[1:36:13] There's nothing definite punching through.
[1:36:14] There's not a definite instrument punching through.
[1:36:16] There's not a definite score or a theme or anything you can
[1:36:19] cling on to. It is just a really beautiful
[1:36:21] mass of soundscape and feel. I mean, there's a track that's
[1:36:25] just called Wallace. It's just so you know, Leto
[1:36:30] didn't have to do anything. Just play that and have anyone
[1:36:32] stand there and you know exactly what that character is.
[1:36:35] So I think between the two of them, what Zimmer does is he
[1:36:37] brings that real musicianship of Vangelis.
[1:36:41] And then what Wallfish does is he just adds this texture.
[1:36:44] And I'm so surprised that this was such a big seller.
[1:36:46] Like people buying this on vinyl.
[1:36:47] I'm not going to stick this on like on a Sunday night and just
[1:36:50] let's get that Blade for a 2049 soundtrack on.
[1:36:57] It's trying to relax, but it's it really works.
[1:36:59] It's fantastic because you get lost in it.
[1:37:01] It is because of just these wonderful soundscapes and these
[1:37:03] emotions and landscapes that it makes everything about this film
[1:37:06] is visual, including this. Yeah, I mean, when we see a
[1:37:09] soundtrack where typically mean like an album, all the pieces of
[1:37:11] music in a film, you see the name comes from being the track
[1:37:15] in the mix which has the sound on it.
[1:37:16] And when I think of the score in this film, that's what I think
[1:37:19] of. It's a soundtrack.
[1:37:21] Is this like crossover between the sound design and the score
[1:37:24] with some names? I'm not sure which one which I'm
[1:37:25] listening to, whether I'm not sure if it's diegetic or non
[1:37:28] diegetic. Yeah, that big kind of booming
[1:37:31] foghorn sound that we hear all the way through.
[1:37:33] That is classic Zimmer he loves. That yeah, he's done that since
[1:37:37] your dot, hasn't he? It's really jarring, though, if
[1:37:39] you're listening to this and you're driving and then
[1:37:41] Suspicious Minds comes on. What?
[1:37:46] Really jarring. But that's to me, that noise is
[1:37:49] like the noise of this world and they take a lead from Vangelis
[1:37:52] in terms of the future sounding sins.
[1:37:53] We had the tears and Ram using a couple of times as well.
[1:37:56] Yeah, but do yeah. They do their own thing as well,
[1:37:58] which is why you hire Hans Zimmer, isn't it?
[1:38:01] And it's got his classic wall of sound kind of approach, which
[1:38:04] reflects that brutality. That's the only wonder, I think.
[1:38:07] Subtle. He's not really required here.
[1:38:09] I mean, I'm not sure I'd call this top tier Hans Zimmer.
[1:38:12] Well, it does do what the best film music tends to.
[1:38:14] It doesn't just accompany the images, it kind of completes
[1:38:17] them I think. Well, you're back in the Blade
[1:38:19] Runner universe. You do need to still follow that
[1:38:21] Vangelis cue. Don't you really like about
[1:38:24] this? Yeah, you do.
[1:38:25] You need it. And it is very, very handsome of
[1:38:27] that boom and noise which is so patented by now.
[1:38:31] You know, it's almost become like a parody of itself in some
[1:38:33] other films. But he combining that with the
[1:38:36] influence that he does take from Vangelis, You listen to it and
[1:38:39] you just think, yeah, there's only one universe would have
[1:38:43] this music and it would be Blade Runner.
[1:38:45] It's perfectly done. The first composer I had to work
[1:38:48] on the film was Johann Johansson, who worked with Vin
[1:38:50] Nuvon, Prisoners and Sicario and Arrival before this.
[1:38:54] But after he started delivering the first samples film, you've
[1:38:56] wasn't massively impressed. He wanted to move closer what
[1:38:59] Vangelis had done on the first film, so brought in Hans Zimmer
[1:39:02] instead. Well, for your hands and three
[1:39:04] films revealed there and then kicked off the biggest one you'd
[1:39:06] be got it wouldn't. You bless him, I.
[1:39:09] Yeah, and Zimmer was scheduled to go on tour in the middle of
[1:39:11] production, so he brought in Benjamin Wolfish as his Co
[1:39:14] writer and they'd already worked together on Hidden Figures,
[1:39:16] which is where his involvement came from.
[1:39:18] Yeah, doing research for this, I realized that you wrote a track
[1:39:21] for Zimmer score for Dunkirk as well and all.
[1:39:23] Right. Yeah, OK.
[1:39:25] Slightly different subject matter, they believe or not, but
[1:39:27] it's a huge sound, obviously. Yeah, of course.
[1:39:30] Yeah, the loud noise that appears throughout the score
[1:39:32] began as a male choir sample that Benjamin Wolfish ran
[1:39:36] through a series of electronic filters again and again until it
[1:39:39] sounded mechanical. Like human voices made inhuman,
[1:39:42] which is kind of the theme in audio so.
[1:39:44] That isn't it? Yeah, I love for.
[1:39:45] A few years, yeah. Ran it through electronic
[1:39:47] builders again and I mean how many times just left it going
[1:39:52] overnight by the sounds. Yeah.
[1:39:54] And there was some deliberately chosen sound effects as well.
[1:39:57] The Wallace Corporation's alert sound is the Prokofiev's 1936
[1:40:00] Peter and the Wolf. Yeah, that sounds really
[1:40:03] authentic. I love it.
[1:40:04] That's the thought. I would do like a little Jingle
[1:40:06] when Joy powers on. Yeah, it's great.
[1:40:08] That nods to the Russian as well, that Russian theme that
[1:40:11] the dogs. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[1:40:12] And the sound designer Mark Mangini said that he took the
[1:40:15] sound of the spinners from a bull roarer, which is an
[1:40:18] instrument Indigenous Australian cultures would swing above their
[1:40:22] heads to make a distinctive sound.
[1:40:23] Which is featured quite heavily in Crocodile Dunde 2 if you want
[1:40:26] to check that out. Yeah, I think Mark Mangini said
[1:40:32] that he uses visual metaphors to find the Sonic metaphors.
[1:40:35] That's a good example of it. Like the spinning ball roar for
[1:40:38] the spinner vehicle works really well.
[1:40:39] It sounds great as well. Yeah.
[1:40:41] And feel of like the sound of the spinner, but told Mangini
[1:40:44] that it needed to sound old. So Mangini recorded his wife's
[1:40:47] Honda in the cockpit of that into the sound of the spinner as
[1:40:50] well. Yeah.
[1:40:54] And then the manipulated that to give a different versions, like
[1:40:56] the spinner flying past camera or the spinner when we're inside
[1:40:59] it with case which sounds different.
[1:41:01] All worked really well. Yeah, it's amazing.
[1:41:03] Alexander Displa won the Oscar that year for Best original
[1:41:06] score for The Shape of Water and creating a huge soundscape.
[1:41:10] It follows Vangelas while giving Vilnios something new.
[1:41:13] We're fans of what Hans Zimmer and Benjamin Walker Studio.
[1:41:15] Yeah, absolutely. The more I listen to it, the
[1:41:17] better get. From the soundscape to the
[1:41:21] images and the director of photography and visual effects
[1:41:24] studios, the DP was Roger Deakins.
[1:41:27] Yeah, that industry legend. He shot the short swing
[1:41:29] Redemption, The Assassination of Jesse James Skyfall, among lots
[1:41:32] of others and just were revealed live on Prisoners and Sicario.
[1:41:36] Yeah. And the effects team was had a
[1:41:37] look by John Nelson and Paul Lambert working with multiple
[1:41:40] studios like Frame Stall, What a Workshop, NPC and Double
[1:41:44] Negative, among others. So Westie, how does the film
[1:41:48] look, Deakins for you? Is it?
[1:41:50] I mean. Yeah.
[1:41:52] That's it, isn't it? That's it.
[1:41:54] Of course, it's just it was the first shot.
[1:41:57] I'm done. I'm in 100%.
[1:41:58] It's absolutely flawless work. I mean, the just the lighting
[1:42:01] design alone is so Deacons, but it's so much more intricate and
[1:42:05] so much more well designed. I mean, so if you look at some
[1:42:08] of the lighting rigs put on this, it's just incredible.
[1:42:10] Just in the Wallace Temple, there's just rows and rows and
[1:42:13] rows of LA days just put inside each other and the control each
[1:42:16] level of them and they bring the, you know, they bring them
[1:42:18] up and down and then control everything that's happening on
[1:42:20] the walls. And just, he uses light as a
[1:42:22] character in this. It's just incredible.
[1:42:25] The light and the shadow all play a part.
[1:42:27] It's shot on the Ari Alexa again.
[1:42:29] And the amazing thing about this, he always shoots on a
[1:42:31] single camera. There's always a single camera
[1:42:33] setup. They're not doing explosion
[1:42:35] sequences with like 3 or 4 different cameras everywhere to
[1:42:37] get different angles. So everything is just so well
[1:42:39] considered. And the other thing, the note as
[1:42:41] well, for anyone who's really bothered and you know, kind of
[1:42:44] listens to what I say on these, this wasn't shot anamorphic,
[1:42:46] which the first Blade Runner was, which gives a lot more
[1:42:49] depth to the frame. There's a lot more of a
[1:42:50] cinematic feel. The book is different.
[1:42:53] It's got like it's it's less spherical where this is shot
[1:42:55] actually spherical on size Master Primes.
[1:42:58] So it gives it more of an architectural photography look.
[1:43:00] It's very, very symmetrical and you've got this.
[1:43:03] The lines are straight, there's no convergent verticals.
[1:43:06] There's nothing at the side of the frame.
[1:43:07] Everything is absolutely pinpoint straight and that's
[1:43:10] what you needed. And it just works so well for
[1:43:12] this film to shoot its spherical.
[1:43:13] So it has a fresher feel. It has like an upgraded field in
[1:43:16] the cinematography because that was shot on film.
[1:43:18] This was shot digitally and you know from the light and design,
[1:43:21] even if you look at the Wallace Temple and then look at Vegas,
[1:43:24] but then look at the opening on Sappas farm.
[1:43:27] Now Sappas Farm, there's two lights and windows and
[1:43:29] silhouetted, but the blacks are just as as beautiful.
[1:43:32] The light is just as considered. It tells the story just as well
[1:43:35] as Vegas does. That's silhouetted, that's
[1:43:37] beautiful, but you don't look at 1 scene and go.
[1:43:39] That really stands out. Every single shot of this is a
[1:43:41] screensaver. Every single element of this
[1:43:44] film is is you can pause it and hang out on your wall.
[1:43:46] It's a beautiful, beautiful piece of work and taken nothing
[1:43:49] away from Greg Fraser. But June wouldn't look half as
[1:43:52] good if Deacons hadn't done the work he did on this.
[1:43:55] Yeah, I mean, like what we've been saying about lots of
[1:43:57] aspects of the filmmaking. Yeah, I think the cinematography
[1:44:00] managers a time with the first film by also doing its own
[1:44:02] thing. Yeah, the original is really
[1:44:04] dark, really rainy. Yeah, there's loads of bright,
[1:44:07] striking colours. We get snow.
[1:44:09] So it does look different, but still fits somehow.
[1:44:12] And visually, I just love it. I mean, where is the original
[1:44:15] with lots of cramped interiors and closets?
[1:44:17] Probably because of the smaller budget.
[1:44:19] Yeah. Deacons opens it right up.
[1:44:21] Huge farms, massive wastelands like we talked about.
[1:44:24] I mean, it is beyond something to look at.
[1:44:26] Every frame is like a painting. And the use of color always
[1:44:29] stands out. The neon pink of the Joy Yards
[1:44:32] and that outrageous orange Las Vegas that we'll talk about is
[1:44:36] incredible. But I think the use color to
[1:44:38] tell us where we are emotionally and tell the story.
[1:44:42] Ellie is like dog and dingy. And then when we go to Celine
[1:44:44] Laboratories, that's more like white, sterile white.
[1:44:47] So it's snowing outside, which I think represents Anna's kind of
[1:44:50] purity as a miracle child, I'm guessing.
[1:44:52] So each environment does have its own kind of visual language.
[1:44:54] Yeah. And wouldn't reveal Nerve, who
[1:44:56] loves a long take. Deacons create these moments
[1:44:59] where I always just kind of want to pause the film and just stare
[1:45:01] at it, but it never feels indulgent either.
[1:45:04] No, when key is walking away from that tree on fire, I pause
[1:45:08] it every time. Yeah, yeah.
[1:45:09] Because. That shot is unbelievable, but
[1:45:11] it's about 8 seconds long. Yeah.
[1:45:13] I would have held that for three days.
[1:45:15] Are you getting any spare? Goes up the trees made of
[1:45:18] concrete. I would have waited until it
[1:45:20] burned away for three days. I'm holding that.
[1:45:23] It's just unbelievable. It is a master class in
[1:45:26] cinematography. I think.
[1:45:27] It is one of the best examples of big scale science looking
[1:45:30] cinematography we've ever seen surely?
[1:45:33] I mean, I just think sometimes aspects come up in these
[1:45:36] podcasts where you almost have to admit defeat and go, there's
[1:45:39] nothing that I could say that sheds illumination on this.
[1:45:42] Like I've got nothing insightful to say about this because it
[1:45:45] speaks for itself on such a level.
[1:45:48] Like you don't need to listen to me.
[1:45:49] Just go and look at it. Forgot to say, like, everything
[1:45:51] you just said, like, So if I'm going to add anything, it just
[1:45:55] feels like the amount of challenges.
[1:45:57] He said himself that he didn't need to, but he did anyway.
[1:46:00] And I'll go back to the interiors of Wallace's temple.
[1:46:03] Does it need all those lapping reflections of the water again?
[1:46:06] I mean, I have no idea how complex that setup would be.
[1:46:10] No, doesn't need it. It looks insanely difficult.
[1:46:13] I would definitely not do it. But he does.
[1:46:16] And if deacons can do it, let him do it.
[1:46:18] So yeah, this is absolutely one of those where you just go.
[1:46:20] You know what? The work does all its own
[1:46:22] talking here. There is a recurring kind of
[1:46:24] visual motif using water as well, because you get the water
[1:46:28] in Wallace's offices, like we're saying, you get the sea wall
[1:46:31] later on, we get snow at the end.
[1:46:34] So there's this kind of developer that goes along, which
[1:46:35] is quite clever. Yeah, and Veiler said that after
[1:46:39] he accepted the job as director of Blade Runner, he was having
[1:46:41] dinner with deacons that same night, and they prepared by
[1:46:44] hauling up in a Montreal hotel for a month with the storyboard
[1:46:47] artists Sam Hudecki and Daryl Henley to storyboard the entire
[1:46:51] film. Wow, he said.
[1:46:53] They came up with some visual ideas that were so crazy to that
[1:46:55] just have the screenplay rewritten afterwards to
[1:46:57] accommodate them all. Wow, he's very big on
[1:47:00] storyboarding. It seems like the only other
[1:47:02] things. Deacons had a hand in design and
[1:47:03] the huge pink version of joy we see towards the end as well.
[1:47:07] And that's sharp joy towering A bouquet.
[1:47:09] It's ridiculous. It's one of the defining shots
[1:47:11] of the film, I think, isn't it? Yeah, it is.
[1:47:13] Yeah. And her hair now as well, that
[1:47:15] Blues things kind of cut. Apparently that was just some
[1:47:17] cheap wig because he didn't have time to get anything else.
[1:47:20] But still, he can make it look good.
[1:47:21] Yeah, it's unbelievable. Yeah, and I want to talk about
[1:47:24] the visual effects because I think the thing I was most
[1:47:26] worried about with this sequel was would the capture the feel
[1:47:30] of the original or would the updated too much?
[1:47:32] Like one of the big problems with the Star Wars prequels is
[1:47:35] the technology was so much more advanced that the prequels look
[1:47:38] like in the future, not the past of that particular universe,
[1:47:42] which I found really difficult to kind of get past.
[1:47:45] But here the effects work is so well done because it looks like
[1:47:48] Blade Runner, but it does look like it's moved on, but not to
[1:47:50] the point where it's unrecognizable.
[1:47:52] And it has that tactility. But the first one is where, you
[1:47:55] know, I feel I can reach in and I can touch this world like I
[1:47:58] did with the 1st. And it does that thing where it
[1:48:01] blends the use of CG and model work and miniatures and
[1:48:04] practical effects so brilliantly that there's so many shots where
[1:48:07] I'll go. I generally can't tell which one
[1:48:09] of those disciplines this shot belongs to.
[1:48:12] I think that's how you use visual effects.
[1:48:14] Definitely. Definitely.
[1:48:15] Yeah, you're right. There's miniatures, the scale
[1:48:17] models, there's green screen, practical and digital.
[1:48:20] The blend is just, like, so well done.
[1:48:22] Yeah. And I know the viewers said that
[1:48:23] the reason he likes to have some practical effects is because he
[1:48:26] thinks it makes it easier for the cast to immerse themselves
[1:48:28] in the world. Yeah.
[1:48:29] Which makes sense. Yeah.
[1:48:30] And that must have with the cinematography as well, having
[1:48:33] it all looking on set, pretty much how it's going to look on
[1:48:35] film. Most inspire ideas.
[1:48:37] Deacons and everybody else. Our mother.
[1:48:39] Absolutely, 100%. I mean, there's some amazing
[1:48:41] before and after shots. I'm sure we've put it on our
[1:48:43] Twitter as well. Yeah, actually on the set and
[1:48:46] you can see them before and afters and how little they
[1:48:48] actually used and filled in. It's incredible, incredible
[1:48:51] work. Well, I say yeah, everything
[1:48:52] starts as a real set with real props and then they build around
[1:48:55] it with digital like enhancements.
[1:48:57] So the farms were a real place with digital ladders.
[1:49:00] The orphanage is a real set with a digital background.
[1:49:03] Yeah, spin as a real prop vehicle the bills and then add
[1:49:06] digital elements to it. Yeah, I mean watching sequences
[1:49:09] where the digital is done by the studio who did gravity in frame
[1:49:12] store. The miniatures are done by the
[1:49:14] team. We did Lord of the Rings.
[1:49:15] In went a workshop. The shot by Roger Deakins.
[1:49:17] I mean, no one never looks so good.
[1:49:19] Yeah. It's like an incredible array of
[1:49:21] talents. Definitely 100%.
[1:49:23] Another classic Blade Runner visual they brought back from
[1:49:25] the original is the neon corporate logos.
[1:49:28] They carried it on from the first film as well.
[1:49:30] Pan Am and Atari haven't been around properly since the 90s,
[1:49:33] but we'll see them both here. I love seeing the Atari logo.
[1:49:36] Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
[1:49:41] Yeah, yeah. I saw an interview with Ryan
[1:49:44] Gosling and he said the veal they have told him this is the
[1:49:46] world where Apple never existed. So technology focuses on
[1:49:49] function rather than aesthetics and how it looks.
[1:49:52] Nice Sony logo in there as well. Because they distributed the
[1:49:54] film. Didn't.
[1:49:54] They Yeah, yeah. Nice little sneaky nod.
[1:49:57] For his work on Blame from the 2049 Roger Deakins finally,
[1:50:00] after 13 previous nominations, won his highest Oscar for Best
[1:50:03] Cinematography. Yeah, about time, Westy.
[1:50:06] Absolutely, 100%. And the special effects team won
[1:50:09] the Academy Award for best visual Effects, also deserved.
[1:50:13] Yeah, definitely, 100%. That's the main crew unbelieving
[1:50:15] that 2014. I am Hampton funshine Michael
[1:50:18] Green crafting A worthy sequel script, Hans Ziman Benjamin
[1:50:21] Warfish creating that epic soundscape.
[1:50:23] Orchardigans finally getting his Oscar and effects team is
[1:50:27] seamlessly blending practical and digital.
[1:50:29] So world class talent delivering pretty much world class work
[1:50:33] throughout. It really is a beautiful thing.
[1:50:39] The end The final active Blade Runner 2049 sees Villeneuve
[1:50:45] bring all the threads together. The climactic and wet
[1:50:48] confrontation between K Love and Decade is coming.
[1:50:52] But first, Viva Las Vegas, right?
[1:50:55] Indeed. So having discovered he might be
[1:50:57] the one, he heads to the radiation soaked ruins of Las
[1:51:00] Vegas to find decade in the most orange place in the world.
[1:51:06] He explores an old casino before coming face to face with the OG
[1:51:09] bleed runner himself. We've got Pink Diggins and then
[1:51:13] Harrison Ford back-to-back. Yeah, Westie, you're loving it.
[1:51:16] Unbelievable. Just, you know, every time I
[1:51:18] watch it, Christmas in July, let's be honest, all of these
[1:51:22] shots here are just screensavers.
[1:51:23] The sound of the sort of sofa board and boom.
[1:51:27] It reminds me of all these fallen statues.
[1:51:29] It reminds me, you know, the Valley of the Gods from Jason
[1:51:31] and the Argonauts where you have all the statues there, but it
[1:51:33] feels like they've all fallen. And you get that great one where
[1:51:36] there's the left eye of the statues missing and the left
[1:51:38] eyes. But you know, you look open to
[1:51:40] the left is a replicant, so they've taken that eye away.
[1:51:43] That points back to it. And again, some wonderful nods
[1:51:45] to the first film. So I'll go through a few of
[1:51:47] them. The B Landon on his hand, which
[1:51:50] goes back to the original void contest that he does on Rachel.
[1:51:53] And he says the wasp Bland's on your arm.
[1:51:55] I'd kill it. So he doesn't kill it.
[1:51:58] He lets it go. And then he ends up with his
[1:52:00] hand absolutely covered in the BS and then walks up.
[1:52:03] So he's got that empathy, he's got that plane.
[1:52:05] It really works into that because bees are used
[1:52:07] classically in German airports to monitor the clean air to see
[1:52:11] if there's any radiation. All right.
[1:52:13] So obviously put there by deck and to monitor the air outside
[1:52:16] to see if you can go outside because the radiation and the
[1:52:18] Fallout in Vegas to monitor that.
[1:52:21] And then has been there. They've created a colony and
[1:52:23] they've all started to work together.
[1:52:25] And then the colonies have kind of survived and you've got more
[1:52:27] and more colonies to be. So he's set up more of them and
[1:52:29] they've thrived and they've survived and they've done it
[1:52:32] themselves to show that humans can't actually do that or
[1:52:35] replicants can do that. And then we're getting going
[1:52:37] through the door, but obviously you've got all of that set up
[1:52:39] with the beans, which makes me forget about the visuals a
[1:52:41] little bit. And we're going through the door
[1:52:42] and then you get that classic Harrison Ford revealed from the
[1:52:44] darkness, which is like the Raiders reveal.
[1:52:47] It's the hard part of what Deacons did in Skyfall.
[1:52:51] It's just got that. And I was like, please let him
[1:52:53] come out of the dark holding the gun.
[1:52:55] He had them the first film. And I swear to God, I will never
[1:52:58] do anything nasty to anyone for the rest of my life.
[1:53:01] This is a legacy sequel you had that has the perfect dialogue in
[1:53:05] it. I used to do your job.
[1:53:07] I was good at it. Yeah, Great.
[1:53:09] That back and forth from his and him and Ghost and that little
[1:53:11] standoff and then that disappear over the balcony.
[1:53:14] It's just. Oh yeah, it's great.
[1:53:15] It's just absolutely wonderful from the then on in.
[1:53:18] Not cut to Vegas with early warm sound design.
[1:53:22] Orange light is one of the most striking visuals I think I've
[1:53:24] ever seen in the film and the erriness in the casino was great
[1:53:28] as well. That cause appearance It is like
[1:53:30] Indiana Jones we'll never think it's must have known that when
[1:53:33] they were doing. 100% that would probably be the first shot they
[1:53:37] wrote down how we're going to introduce just out the shadows
[1:53:39] with a gun. First thing I would have written
[1:53:41] down. Exactly.
[1:53:43] Yeah, I think causing it for a great together as well.
[1:53:45] Yeah, famously. Yeah, the orange haze of Las
[1:53:49] Vegas was signify the area is drenched in radiation, which
[1:53:52] obviously expected the bays. And it was inspired by
[1:53:54] photographs of a 2009 sandstorm in Sydney.
[1:53:58] These photographs are amazing, by the way, if you haven't seen
[1:54:00] them, I'm. Not seeing them, No, Yeah.
[1:54:01] I mean, it's just like the Sydney Bridge.
[1:54:04] It's all right. It's got the same gradient.
[1:54:05] It looks unbelievable. So didn't show the images to
[1:54:08] Villeneuve and he said, Yep, let's just do that.
[1:54:10] And it was done through onset lighting and effect like missed
[1:54:13] in his and frame store. Then added some digital colour
[1:54:16] grid and post to kind of just boost the oranges touch more.
[1:54:19] But yeah, there's behind the scenes for each of this as well.
[1:54:21] And it looks as good on set as it does on camera.
[1:54:23] I think it's that little touch grid and as the end it's
[1:54:26] amazing. Even when you see it before free
[1:54:28] so go involved it looks great. The final result is just
[1:54:31] ridiculous. It's unbelievable, yeah.
[1:54:33] And when he was planning the Las Vegas scenes, Feenleve brought
[1:54:36] in Sid Meade, who had worked as a concept artist on the original
[1:54:39] Blade Runner, obviously, and Feenleve asked him to design how
[1:54:42] Las Vegas would look in the Blade Runner universe, and they
[1:54:44] based it mostly on his designs. Like might be my favorite brief
[1:54:48] ever, but Las Vegas in the Blade Runner universe, Great.
[1:54:52] Yeah, Yeah. Still be doing it.
[1:54:55] I couldn't have made any decisions so much.
[1:54:59] And it was Sydney's last film, which isn't a bad way to go.
[1:55:02] Like connecting the dots to probably use more famous work.
[1:55:05] Yeah, definitely. There's another reference to the
[1:55:07] first film when we first see Deckard, his first line to
[1:55:10] cares. You might have never piece of
[1:55:12] cheese about you now, would you, boy?
[1:55:15] Which is pretty cool. Oh, good.
[1:55:16] This is a quote from Treasure Island by Robert Louis
[1:55:19] Stevenson. And there was a deleted scene
[1:55:20] from the first film where we see a character reading Treasure
[1:55:23] Island. That is the first line.
[1:55:25] I think the character stranded on the islands called Ben, and
[1:55:27] that's the first thing he says to the people who arrive.
[1:55:29] Right, That's right. Yeah.
[1:55:30] The guy on the island says that. Yeah, Yeah.
[1:55:33] So, yeah. So it's relevant from that
[1:55:35] point. Relevant because he's.
[1:55:36] Stranded as well, yeah. Exactly.
[1:55:38] And in the casino, there's a couple of other little details
[1:55:40] in there worth mentioning. You'll see that deck artist
[1:55:42] carved some wooden animals, a rhino, an antelope, a cat, a
[1:55:46] horse, an elephant, and a lion. The 1st letter of which all
[1:55:50] spell out Rachel. Nice.
[1:55:52] Yeah, he's carrying some torture there.
[1:55:56] Also when Kay visits Gaffe earlier, he's made an origami
[1:56:00] sheep. Surely not to do Andrews view of
[1:56:02] electric sheep I'm guessing. Yeah, yeah.
[1:56:04] And then when Kay walks into the hall where Deckard shows up, we
[1:56:07] hear the same bell sounds as when Deckard walks into the
[1:56:10] Bradbury building for the final showdown with Chris and Roy
[1:56:13] Batty in Blade Runner. Oh, nice, yeah.
[1:56:15] When kids walking around the casino, it kind of reminds me of
[1:56:18] like when you say all shot to the Titanic.
[1:56:20] There's something really ghostly about.
[1:56:21] It I know what you mean, yeah. The production design is
[1:56:24] fantastic. Yeah, it looks like it's just
[1:56:25] been there forever and they're just stumbled, stumbled across
[1:56:28] it. It really does.
[1:56:29] That shot of Rachel as well, that little picture.
[1:56:32] Oh, yeah, he's in there. You're talking about that
[1:56:34] torches carry. And that's what's Megan Vegas
[1:56:36] Orange he's taught for Rachel. And then after this, he gets K
[1:56:45] and Decor do that classic thing of two characters getting to a
[1:56:48] scrap, and then they decide this is getting us nowhere.
[1:56:51] Let's just make up over drink instead.
[1:56:53] Yeah. I mean, what's interesting is is
[1:56:55] when Ford has thrown those endless punches, he does look
[1:56:57] really tired. It does look like he's not had
[1:57:00] this kind of like scrap in such a long time.
[1:57:02] But in this fighting, Weedley forever in this film features in
[1:57:06] regards to, like, AI holograms and replicants.
[1:57:08] I think this might be the most like, prescient scene of all
[1:57:11] with those hologram versions of Sinatra and Elvis pain in the
[1:57:14] background because like, you first watch this, you think,
[1:57:16] well, even in the future, who'd spend money to go and see
[1:57:19] hologram versions of Art is Singing.
[1:57:22] But then just a few years ago, you had that launch of ABBA
[1:57:24] Voyage, which just uses holographic avatars of the band
[1:57:27] from the 70s, and now it's a huge hit.
[1:57:30] It's kind of told the future already, this scene.
[1:57:33] But then you get the scene in the bar afterwards where I mean,
[1:57:36] for start, that dog can't be real because you shouldn't be
[1:57:38] feeding a real dog whiskey you and for a world of hurt if you
[1:57:41] do that. But he also says ask him.
[1:57:43] So that might go. I'm a replicant actually.
[1:57:47] Like for like a throwaway line like that, it says a lot because
[1:57:51] it's funny, but actually, isn't that the point?
[1:57:53] The point is, in this world it's not up to humans to judge
[1:57:56] whether replicants are real. Ask them themselves.
[1:57:59] You can ask the same question about joy, and that's the heart
[1:58:02] of the film for me. What constitutes being real?
[1:58:05] If you feel something doesn't matter where your memories come
[1:58:07] from, and not for me in amongst this great scene of them just
[1:58:10] sitting with a drink, filling in the plot gaps.
[1:58:12] That's the most important line in this scene for me.
[1:58:14] Yeah, brilliant. I.
[1:58:15] Mean the concert holds a great setting for the fight as well.
[1:58:18] Elvis and Marilyn Monroe performing forever to an empty
[1:58:21] room it seems like I find quite unsettling the whiskey scene.
[1:58:25] That is one of the best moments in the film I think.
[1:58:27] I think a dialogue scene, Kate thinks that Deck his dad at this
[1:58:30] point, so there's someone occurring there.
[1:58:32] Yeah, Ford is excellent. Again, the best I've seen him in
[1:58:34] a long time. Totally feels like Deck Odd and
[1:58:37] feels like it's been hiding for like 30 years.
[1:58:40] And how cool is it when Kay runs through the wall to catch up
[1:58:43] with that God? Brilliant, brilliant.
[1:58:45] Cool as hell. A few more those kind of moments
[1:58:47] wouldn't have gone amiss, to be honest.
[1:58:48] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fantastic.
[1:58:49] In the name of the casino is Vintage Casino and the Sinatra
[1:58:53] hologram was a not to the producer Cynthia Yorkin, whose
[1:58:56] husband Budd Yorkin. He directed Sinatra in a film
[1:58:59] called Come Blow Your Horn in 1963, and both Sinatra and Elvis
[1:59:02] held residencies in Las Vegas at different times in their
[1:59:05] careers. Nice.
[1:59:07] Thought of Elton John. You know what?
[1:59:08] I'm in there. Amazing.
[1:59:10] Imagine Daniel Daniel in the background.
[1:59:15] The holograms of Elvis, Marilyn and Sonata weren't real footage
[1:59:18] to a shot for the film. There were models and the
[1:59:20] likenesses of the three stars were composited on top of the
[1:59:23] performers film. You've said getting the
[1:59:25] holograms to work in this scene became so difficult that the
[1:59:27] thought about changing the scene all together.
[1:59:29] Wow. Yeah, apparently the head of
[1:59:31] that, Joe Walker, saved the day by having the idea of having the
[1:59:33] holograms kind of cut in and out like the deal, if you'll never
[1:59:37] said that totally changed the scene.
[1:59:38] I'm not going to imagine it makes it, like, really haunting.
[1:59:42] It's Miles. Better that just the technology
[1:59:44] doesn't work. The technology doesn't last.
[1:59:46] Yeah, it's miles better, Yeah. And while shooting the fight,
[1:59:49] Harrison Ford accidentally punched Ryan Gosling in the face
[1:59:52] for real, which is the take we've seen the film.
[1:59:54] So as an apology, Ford invited Gosling to share a bottle of
[1:59:57] whiskey with him and then mooned him.
[2:00:00] And apparently this is something you did to Sean Young on the
[2:00:02] first film as well. That's right.
[2:00:04] Yeah, Ford said that he punched him because Gosling dances
[2:00:07] forwards a lot more than he dances backwards.
[2:00:10] So right, it's what's Goslin's falling.
[2:00:12] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's our journey to Vegas.
[2:00:15] Orange skies, abandoned dreams and two Blade runners coming
[2:00:18] together. Love and Wallace have other
[2:00:20] plans, don't they? Certainly do do.
[2:00:25] The climax, The Blade Runner 2049 brings our characters
[2:00:28] together for some big revelations while this tries to
[2:00:31] break Deck on with a digital resurrection.
[2:00:32] While K haven't been told by the resistance that he isn't, the
[2:00:35] special one raises to save Deck out from love.
[2:00:38] It all ends in snow, silence and sacrifice.
[2:00:42] Does. So how's it all?
[2:00:44] It plays out so well in this reunion between Deckard and
[2:00:47] Rachel Wasn't expecting it whatsoever for reasons we'll get
[2:00:50] into, but just that glimpse of her silhouette is just enough to
[2:00:55] make you go. It's not who I think it is.
[2:00:56] And is that where we're going with this?
[2:00:58] Because the film is done such an effective job of reintegrating
[2:01:01] Deckard into the story, into this world.
[2:01:03] We know that apart from his daughter, Rachel is by far and
[2:01:07] away the most important thing in the world.
[2:01:09] So there's a genuine tension of Willie succumb to this
[2:01:12] temptation, even though he knows she's not the real thing.
[2:01:15] And this goes back to what we've been saying about Ford getting a
[2:01:18] real joy out of returning to this couch because it gives them
[2:01:21] some proper meaty material to get his teeth into.
[2:01:24] Because this is some of his best work, this confrontation he has
[2:01:28] with Wallace when he says he knows what's real.
[2:01:30] And you can see the torment he's going through being faced with
[2:01:33] this, well, what looks to all intents and purposes,
[2:01:35] resurrection of Rachel. And you get that great moment
[2:01:38] where you know, he says to Wallace, you mustn't have
[2:01:40] children. And Wallace replies, he has
[2:01:42] millions, which is true, but with all those millions, he
[2:01:45] doesn't understand what it actually means to be a parent,
[2:01:48] whereas Deckard only has one. But he totally gets it.
[2:01:52] So I think it's probably Ford's best scene in the film.
[2:01:54] It's really tense. I think the only thing I don't
[2:01:57] get is Wallace sending Deckard off world to be tortured.
[2:02:00] Yeah, I don't get that either. I.
[2:02:01] Don't know if that's just a convenient way to get him into
[2:02:04] his spinner so Kate can track him down.
[2:02:05] Because otherwise you think you've got, like, a massive
[2:02:07] temple. Sure, you've got a spare room
[2:02:09] somewhere. Like, take him there.
[2:02:11] Yeah. And Wallace says the Deckarden
[2:02:13] race that we're designed to meet and fall in love, which adds a
[2:02:15] little layer to the original film.
[2:02:18] Yeah. And Elvis was singing Can't tell
[2:02:20] Falling in love with you earlier.
[2:02:22] Really unintentional choice. And he says he loves the song.
[2:02:25] Yeah, yeah. And Ford really quite a game
[2:02:27] when he looks at Rachel with some recognition and then says
[2:02:29] your eyes were green and just walks away and then love just.
[2:02:32] Executes her I. Think it's interesting because
[2:02:35] even watching it now, one of the points in the film is to tell us
[2:02:37] that key and replicants have worth.
[2:02:40] When you see someone just casually execute a replicant, it
[2:02:43] does kind of normalize it a bit. But you know what I mean.
[2:02:46] Oppression gets hold in the 1st place by normalising things that
[2:02:48] shouldn't be seen as normal. Yeah.
[2:02:50] And just see how that happens. Yeah.
[2:02:52] Yeah. And the digital Rachel?
[2:02:54] She was created by an effect studio called MPC, and Vena have
[2:02:58] told them they had to make the best CGI version of a character
[2:03:01] ever seen. No pressure?
[2:03:03] No. No, no.
[2:03:04] Oh, I chased an E, Yeah. He's not asking for AT Rex or
[2:03:07] anything. It's fine.
[2:03:09] So they scanned Sean Young's skeleton as it is now to get her
[2:03:12] bone structure and then created a digital school of racial
[2:03:15] format and then laid skin on top use and footage of Sean Young
[2:03:18] from 1982 as a reference. Then when they were done they
[2:03:21] created a digital version of the shot of Rachel in the first film
[2:03:24] where we see a smoke and a close up, the shot at the original and
[2:03:27] their shot to be left side by side.
[2:03:29] And when he couldn't pick out which one is real, they knew the
[2:03:32] one or something. That's unbelievable.
[2:03:36] That isn't it. It's absolutely unbelievable.
[2:03:38] Imagine they used the wrong footage though and it was from
[2:03:40] Ace Ventura and Rhea Finkel walked out.
[2:03:46] I mean, it shows that things that moved on because you
[2:03:48] couldn't have even tried that just a few years earlier.
[2:03:50] No chance. And then an actress called
[2:03:52] Lauren Peter was then hired to play Rachel in the scene, and
[2:03:55] Sean Young came in to work with Peter on her mannerisms and
[2:03:59] taught her how to walk like Rachel.
[2:04:00] They filmed Peter in the scene in Jung's face was digitally
[2:04:03] composited on top of hers. Right.
[2:04:05] Yeah, and apparently when the first did it, it didn't look
[2:04:07] good enough because it didn't look like Rachel, and they
[2:04:09] couldn't figure out why. Right?
[2:04:11] He's one of the producers. Karen Murphy said it's not the
[2:04:14] score of the skin, it's the problem.
[2:04:15] It's the makeup that you've given her.
[2:04:17] That's not how Sean Young was made-up in the original.
[2:04:19] And when they start it fixed the problem.
[2:04:21] Oh wow. And then, with all the secrecy
[2:04:23] around the film that denied at the time that Sean Young was
[2:04:26] involved at all but brilliantly, she got in on the ACT, she
[2:04:29] released a statement saying fans should boycott the film because
[2:04:32] he wasn't in it. I remember that.
[2:04:34] Yeah. That's so she was like, just
[2:04:38] this is terrible. I'm not in it.
[2:04:39] I remember that. It was like Oprah.
[2:04:41] It was amazing. Yeah.
[2:04:42] That's brilliant. It did really good.
[2:04:44] So Decker, it's been taken off world to be tortured.
[2:04:48] I guess he's on the way, yeah. He's on the way.
[2:04:50] Who's gonna save him? Well, I mean, it's raining, so
[2:04:53] might as well have a rectum gonna come in and crash
[2:04:55] something because that's what's gonna happen.
[2:04:57] So there's this great shop, you know, the spinners are exploding
[2:05:00] either side. Kind of reminds us the end of
[2:05:02] New Hope. You know, when he comes in on
[2:05:03] the on the Millennium Falcon and just blows the two guys on the
[2:05:06] other side, it's kind of, is that a bit of a nod, Telecan?
[2:05:09] So yeah, maybe. I love that the way it kind of
[2:05:12] crashes down. Shogun the whoopers?
[2:05:14] Well, shouldn't I? Imagine that key at the back.
[2:05:21] It's great. And then that that crash
[2:05:23] happens. When it starts, I always get a
[2:05:25] little bit infuriated thinking I don't think this this should be
[2:05:28] in the film. Like when it starts and she
[2:05:30] comes out and starts attacking them and loves to take fighting
[2:05:33] with key and it's all this like martial arts and Kung Fu stuff.
[2:05:36] And I'm like, oh, I don't know if this should be in.
[2:05:38] And then it's I'm watching it a bit more and I'm watching it a
[2:05:41] bit more. And then the tensions building
[2:05:42] and then the water is filling up and then dead gods is there.
[2:05:45] And then it's just this, this back and forth and then the
[2:05:48] gunshot and then there's the stab and then there's the kiss.
[2:05:51] And it's like, ah, this is all time together.
[2:05:53] This is absolutely necessary. This definitely needs to be in.
[2:05:56] She's overpowering them. She's going to win here.
[2:05:58] And then that moment where he just comes from under the water
[2:06:01] and just picks her up and paints her against the wall.
[2:06:03] And it's just like he's just got this absolute need to just
[2:06:07] destroy this thing, whatever it is.
[2:06:09] He's just, there's no humanity left in a whatsoever.
[2:06:11] And everything ties to this moment.
[2:06:13] And I honestly think that she could overpower care at this
[2:06:16] point. And he pulls a back under the
[2:06:18] water and he's choking her a bit more and she gives up.
[2:06:21] If you, I mean, I've watched this a number of times and I
[2:06:23] think she gives up and she looks up and the way that he's framed
[2:06:26] through the water is he's got the two strips of light either
[2:06:29] side, which look like Angel wings and he's framed in that
[2:06:32] way. And she kind of looks up and
[2:06:33] goes, but you know what? There's nothing left for us here
[2:06:35] now anyway and just kind of gives it up and leaves it
[2:06:38] because that's her choice and her humanity.
[2:06:41] She chooses to die. And it's almost like Batley
[2:06:44] said, time to die. Tears in the rain, She's in the
[2:06:47] water. And I think that's the whole
[2:06:48] message and it is that she actually lets him live, then he
[2:06:52] lets Decade live, and then that's how they get their
[2:06:54] retribution at the end. Take on it.
[2:06:57] I think so. That part of the back story is
[2:07:00] that LA was hit by a tsunami in 2025, which is why the sea walls
[2:07:04] being built. Yeah.
[2:07:05] And water has been kind of a recurring more teeth through the
[2:07:07] film. So it works well as a second to
[2:07:09] the climax. You've got the singing spinner,
[2:07:11] the rising tide, Key in Love beating the hell out of each
[2:07:14] other with the ticking clock of Decor drowning in the
[2:07:16] background. So it's all the end of their.
[2:07:17] Narratively, it's great when Love stabs Key and then kisses
[2:07:21] them really weird and then just goes, I'm the best one, which is
[2:07:25] a great line. We're also kind of shown that
[2:07:27] she's where Key was earlier. She wants to be special or she
[2:07:30] thinks she has no worth. I always know what the scene
[2:07:32] before this as well. After Kate's been told he's not
[2:07:35] the one by the resistance, he's wandering around LA depressed,
[2:07:38] which is brilliant. Just needs a ball and a brown
[2:07:40] paper bag. She comes across and he comes
[2:07:46] across the giant Joy hologram. She calls him Joe, which is what
[2:07:49] his Joy named him, meaning she was his programming.
[2:07:52] And the thing he came to resigns himself to the fact that he's
[2:07:54] just programming as well. And that's when he decides the
[2:07:57] state of decor. Yeah.
[2:07:58] That choice is the thing that shows is more human than human,
[2:08:01] which I think it's all just great the way it turns around.
[2:08:03] Yeah. Yeah.
[2:08:04] But the original plan was to film the climax at the Malta
[2:08:07] Film Studios because that was known for its huge water tanks
[2:08:10] and the chart clash of the Titans and Game of Thrones
[2:08:12] there. But if you see a Cynthia York
[2:08:14] and said that relocating all 230 crew members would have cost a
[2:08:18] fortune and realized they could shave $1 million off the budget
[2:08:22] they build in the one in Budapest.
[2:08:23] So that's what they did. Nice.
[2:08:25] And since then terminally a dog fade June under which you have
[2:08:28] all used those Budapest water science.
[2:08:30] As well. All right.
[2:08:31] Nice, right. Yeah, Yeah.
[2:08:32] So Deckard saved, Love is gone, and Key is on the way out, but
[2:08:36] it's not over just yet. He takes Deck artist Celine
[2:08:39] Laboratories to meet his daughter, Doctor Anna, but not
[2:08:41] before he expires himself on the snowy steps.
[2:08:44] Indeed. Well, I'll say this about the
[2:08:46] end and watching Deckard reunite with his daughter while Kate
[2:08:50] dies on the steps outside with snow falling down on him.
[2:08:53] The beautiful imagery of that. It's a hell of a lot more
[2:08:56] satisfying than bugging some outtakes from The Shining on the
[2:08:58] end. Fair enough.
[2:09:00] So it's wrapped up, but I think it's wrapped up with this nod of
[2:09:04] ambiguity still about certain things, and that just feels
[2:09:08] right for Blade Runner film. I agree it does.
[2:09:10] I mean, it's a completion of Kay's arc, I think, isn't it?
[2:09:13] You find this humanity in what we would like to think is the
[2:09:15] most human way possible. He sacrifices himself or others.
[2:09:19] I think the snow is a great visual choice.
[2:09:21] It is a development of the water mortif we mentioned and it's a
[2:09:24] pure and peaceful, which is kind of where Kay ends up.
[2:09:28] That final overhead shot lying on the steps is perfect.
[2:09:31] I think a worst film would have had an image of Joy appearing in
[2:09:34] his head going I told you you were special or something.
[2:09:39] Well that's a great shot. It could have finished there,
[2:09:41] but then it end with Anna and Deckard meeting and the final
[2:09:44] shot is of Deckard, as it should be I think.
[2:09:47] I think as final moments goal this is one of the best I've
[2:09:49] seen for years. I think it's perfect.
[2:09:51] Yeah, from that moment when they turn up at the lab, it's just
[2:09:54] absolutely fantastic if you just watch that moment about 5 or 6
[2:09:59] times. Just that moment.
[2:10:00] There's so much in here that really elevates the whole film.
[2:10:04] Deckard asking him if he's all right, treating him like a
[2:10:07] human. Yeah.
[2:10:08] The salt markings that are on case court when he pulls the
[2:10:11] horse out, said he's being in salt water.
[2:10:13] It's an old mark that he's caught, which is absolutely
[2:10:16] incredible. Just in these little touches.
[2:10:18] The symbolism towards Batley's death, obviously the tears in
[2:10:21] rain, but he dies in the snow. Rain is too fast to acknowledge.
[2:10:26] Rain is too similar in its makeup.
[2:10:28] Snowflakes are individual. This falls slowly to have their
[2:10:32] own individuality, to have their own identity.
[2:10:34] He catches it and he knows he's an individual.
[2:10:37] He's unique. So he dies his own.
[2:10:38] He dies a hero. And then when Decker goes in the
[2:10:41] lab, the snow has fallen in the lab.
[2:10:43] Is she creating that last memory for Key Country Implant memories
[2:10:48] from where she is? Maybe.
[2:10:50] And if she can't, that's fucking beautiful because she's like
[2:10:53] cannot. She cannot leave there.
[2:10:54] So how else does she send the memories?
[2:10:55] How else does she know which model gets what?
[2:10:58] So she could have access to the chaos, have access to a certain
[2:11:02] group of the Nexus names, or know that when he's come in to
[2:11:04] know who he is, but what his makeup is, who he is as a
[2:11:07] person, what he's looking for. And she's given him that piece.
[2:11:09] She's given him that end. Then she turns around and she
[2:11:11] gets her ended. Perfect.
[2:11:13] I love the bit as well and deck all like says why are you doing
[2:11:15] this? Why are you helping me?
[2:11:17] And he just goes go meet your daughter.
[2:11:19] Great, but to prevent that ending from being leaked, it was
[2:11:22] communicated to the cast verbally and not included in the
[2:11:25] scripts. And in the moment Kate is down
[2:11:27] on the steps, you can hear that Cement and Wolfish have weaved
[2:11:30] the skull from the TS and Rain speech into the background.
[2:11:33] Yeah, nice. Bit of a nice touch.
[2:11:35] Honestly. I think they get much closer to
[2:11:37] the Roy body death in the first film now.
[2:11:39] I think we could have ever reasonably expected them to.
[2:11:41] I think it's a fantastic final. Far more subtly as well.
[2:11:45] Yeah, yeah. And with that, Kate completes
[2:11:48] his journey from nobody to somebody.
[2:11:50] Deckard finds what he lost as snow falls in Los Angeles Not a
[2:11:54] bad way to end things. Definitely not reception and
[2:12:00] awards. So that's the story.
[2:12:04] You played Runner 2049 and it opened in cinemas on October the
[2:12:07] 6th, 2017. How did it do?
[2:12:10] Well, our own Nexus 6 number cruncher has the data.
[2:12:14] So Matt, it was those numbers, would you?
[2:12:16] Production budget was between 150 and $185 million, and on
[2:12:22] that later in the 2049 grossed $276.6 million worldwide, which
[2:12:28] was actually a big commercial disappointment for the studio.
[2:12:31] But it did fare better with the Oscars nominated for five wards
[2:12:34] in total, winning two of them. As we've said, Roger Deakins
[2:12:37] finally won for Best Cinematography.
[2:12:40] John Nelson, Good Neff, Sir Paul Lambert and Richard R Hoover won
[2:12:43] Best Visual Effects. Nice.
[2:12:46] So whenever any kind of publication, including us, talks
[2:12:49] about the budget of a film, I think it can be a bit misleading
[2:12:51] because we're usually talking about the production budget.
[2:12:54] On top of that, any film also has a marketing budget, which
[2:12:57] can be like 50 to 100% of the production budget.
[2:13:00] So believe in the 2049 had to make about $350 million to break
[2:13:04] even, which it didn't like you said much.
[2:13:06] So it lost about $80 million, unfortunately.
[2:13:09] Yeah. Bradley Scott said the slow
[2:13:10] piercing of the film was the reason that flopped and said it
[2:13:12] was at least 30 minutes too long.
[2:13:14] And Bill New said he was proud of the film but made the most
[2:13:17] expensive art house movie in cinema history.
[2:13:20] Yes, get in. Yeah.
[2:13:22] So he knew it was a financial risk.
[2:13:24] I can't believe the studio approved the script to be honest
[2:13:27] without being like 20 minutes. Yeah, yeah.
[2:13:30] And. Include at least one big set
[2:13:31] piece in the middle. I mean, the blueprint's kind of
[2:13:33] right there. Look at what Norman's been doing
[2:13:35] for 10 years before this. Yeah, that's how you make a
[2:13:37] blockbuster that's autistic and it makes money.
[2:13:40] Yeah, and Sony Pictures handled worldwide distribution of the
[2:13:43] movie and gave a censored version of it to Turkey,
[2:13:46] deleting all the scenes in nudity and said that did that
[2:13:49] out of respect for the Turkish culture.
[2:13:51] However, Turkey was furious and the SIYAD, the association of
[2:13:57] Turkish film critics, wrote an open letter to Sony Sane.
[2:14:00] Seeing oneself as an authority to decide what is appropriate
[2:14:03] and what is not appropriate for a in quote marks local culture,
[2:14:06] and imposing your view on that culture is one of the greatest
[2:14:09] shows of disrespect for that culture.
[2:14:11] Wow. Yeah, furious.
[2:14:13] Yeah. So there's a new shot of
[2:14:14] Mariette kind of in silhouette and kid apartment, which is only
[2:14:17] a couple of seconds. That also means we'll lose the
[2:14:20] whole Wallace birth in the replica scene, I guess because
[2:14:23] she's naked. Surely it's better with that,
[2:14:25] isn't it? Definitely, absolutely.
[2:14:26] Yeah, 100%. Well, under the critics, and
[2:14:28] we'll start, as we usually do with Roger.
[2:14:30] You bet. Roger was no longer with us by
[2:14:33] 2017. He completed the baseline test,
[2:14:35] unfortunately. What did Brian Talarico of Roger
[2:14:39] reba.com make of the film do we think?
[2:14:41] I don't really know Teleriko's vibe on anything.
[2:14:43] I don't know it's it's got to be the same as as Rodrigo hasn't.
[2:14:48] It. That legacy they've got to stick
[2:14:50] with. I'm going to go 3.5.
[2:14:52] It was 3.5 out of four and Brian, one of the most
[2:14:55] philosophical and challenging sci-fi films of all time, and
[2:14:58] one of the most stunningly short films of not just this year of
[2:15:01] the last several and later on 2049 answers questions about
[2:15:05] what it means to be human and how vital it is to appreciate
[2:15:08] our design to enrich the soul. Yeah.
[2:15:11] Philosophical and challenging. That's why we like it, and also,
[2:15:13] possibly why audiences stayed away.
[2:15:15] It's a hard sell. It is, yeah.
[2:15:18] Peter Travers, a Rolling Stone, also gave the film 3.5 out of
[2:15:21] four stars and said on its own March to screen legend later on.
[2:15:25] The 2049 is a mesmerizing mind vendor that asks new questions
[2:15:29] meant to tantalize, provoke and keep U.S.
[2:15:31] Open night. Right.
[2:15:33] Does it give you fellas up a night?
[2:15:34] Every night since I've seen it, yeah.
[2:15:38] And Empire magazine gave the film the full whack. 5 stars out
[2:15:41] of five. And Dan Jolan said as bold as
[2:15:44] the original Blade Runner and even more beautiful, visually
[2:15:48] Immaculate, swirling with scenes as hard rending as they are mind
[2:15:51] twisting. 24/9 was a good year. And get this, if you think
[2:15:56] forward on easy territory, think again.
[2:15:58] This is possibly the best performance of his career.
[2:16:02] Wow, best performance in Harrison Ford's career.
[2:16:06] I mean, he's. Very good.
[2:16:07] He's very. Indie and Han Solo.
[2:16:08] I don't think so. Not quite.
[2:16:11] I think the original deco performance is better than this
[2:16:13] one. Yeah.
[2:16:14] And so today on Rotten Tomatoes, Blade Runner 2049 has an 88%
[2:16:19] approval rating from both audiences and critics.
[2:16:21] Perfectly balanced and on IMDb a solid 8 out of 10.
[2:16:25] Yeah, 88. Percent from audiences and
[2:16:28] critics, people like us, they just didn't go to see it,
[2:16:30] unfortunately. No, no.
[2:16:32] So Blabenet 2049 was released a critical and Audience prayers
[2:16:36] won awards but was a box office flop.
[2:16:39] Making a good film doesn't necessarily mean you've got a
[2:16:41] profitable one, does it? No, no, that's very true,
[2:16:44] unfortunately. Sequels and influence.
[2:16:52] The evil Nerve has made sequels in his career.
[2:16:54] Or with Blazer not being the box office Turkey it was, this never
[2:16:57] even looked like getting one. There's Blazer 2099 on TV, what
[2:17:01] would you like to see them make a movie?
[2:17:03] Follow up to 2049. I don't think I would.
[2:17:07] I don't think I would either probably.
[2:17:08] I mean I'd love to see more of this world obviously, and the
[2:17:10] finances make it unlikely, but maybe there's bad.
[2:17:12] Leave it as a nicely balanced 2 film story.
[2:17:15] I think so. So Blade Runner is known for
[2:17:17] having seven different cuts released over the years, but
[2:17:20] then you've said that the theatrical cut is the only
[2:17:22] version of this film. At one point there was a four
[2:17:24] hour rough cut and they considered releasing them as two
[2:17:27] separate movies. But then you've decided he just
[2:17:29] wanted one definitive version, which is definitely the right
[2:17:31] choice. Imagine there was Flo.
[2:17:33] Would have been if it was 4 hours 2 box office flops.
[2:17:38] Vinglev has said he might be interested in coming back,
[2:17:41] though in an interview with Empire, he said If you asked me
[2:17:44] if I'd like to revisit this universe in a different way, I
[2:17:46] can say yes. It would need to be a project on
[2:17:49] its own, something disconnected from both of the movies.
[2:17:52] Yeah, he said that he wakes up at night dreaming about a
[2:17:54] detective and wall story set in the future, which kind of sounds
[2:17:58] like Bob Blade Runner already is.
[2:18:00] Yeah, I mean, you've made it. That's.
[2:18:03] Why you're dreaming about it? As for the influence and legacy
[2:18:06] you're played from the 2049, it's quite an interesting one.
[2:18:09] The original influence countless science fiction films that
[2:18:12] followed, but how was this one left its mark?
[2:18:14] I don't know. I don't think this one has
[2:18:16] really left its mark as much as I think it should have.
[2:18:20] I think what this has really done, it's elevated huge cinema.
[2:18:24] I think Nolan took a lot from this and went right.
[2:18:26] I'm making things even bigger again.
[2:18:29] But the real, real pull away from this I see is Vilni of
[2:18:32] going off and doing June. I don't think if he'd done this,
[2:18:35] it wouldn't have been able to do that.
[2:18:37] And if he hadn't done June, I think he would have come back
[2:18:39] and done something in this world.
[2:18:40] I think he would have. He would have needed it.
[2:18:41] But I think June's quenched his thirst.
[2:18:43] The other legacy sequels that have come out, you know, the
[2:18:45] Terminators and the Aliens and the Star Wars and everyone's Bob
[2:18:50] played Run Out was a bit of a flop.
[2:18:51] So let's try and do something a little bit, you know, it's got
[2:18:54] to be shorter. I think that's its influences.
[2:18:56] Like they're looking at its negatives.
[2:18:58] But it's now massively popular. It's 8, it's got really good
[2:19:01] reviews, it's got really good customer reviews.
[2:19:02] It's right up there. I think there was just too much
[2:19:05] in it for people to take away from 1 viewing at the cinema and
[2:19:08] it's not for everybody, so I think that's what a lot of
[2:19:10] people took from. This is like we need to simplify
[2:19:12] it for me and make it an hour and a half.
[2:19:15] Yeah, yeah. Really.
[2:19:16] That's kind of what I get from it, yeah.
[2:19:18] Naughty. I mean, I think you're right.
[2:19:19] I mean, June obviously benefited from real nerve cutting his big
[2:19:22] budget science fiction teeth here.
[2:19:24] Which he split into two films again.
[2:19:26] It's like the what he wanted to do with this one.
[2:19:28] Exactly, Yeah, yeah. I think the wider influence
[2:19:30] might be in how to approach legacy sequels.
[2:19:32] This show that you can make something that honours a classic
[2:19:35] original while being its own thing.
[2:19:37] You don't need to bring back every character, you don't need
[2:19:39] fan service every 5 minutes, you just tell a worthy story with
[2:19:42] something to say in that world. But to be honest, the fact they
[2:19:45] lost money has probably been the overriding influence.
[2:19:49] Students will have looked at this and thought, Nah, let's
[2:19:51] just make something safe. Which is a shame, but what
[2:19:54] happens? If this had been the big case,
[2:19:56] it might have shifted the blockbuster landscape away from
[2:19:59] rehashing previous films, which would have been nice.
[2:20:01] If anything, it's probably just cemented it.
[2:20:04] Yeah. Well, hopefully, like the first
[2:20:05] film, it'll find an audience. Yeah, I think it has to be
[2:20:08] honest. I think a lot of people love
[2:20:09] this one. The influence legacy mean it
[2:20:11] comes from the original Blade running anywhere.
[2:20:13] So this one, it's one of those films where you go, the director
[2:20:17] couldn't have then gone on to make X film until they made this
[2:20:20] one first. And I think that's just very
[2:20:22] true of the scope and the scale of Dune.
[2:20:25] And you know, kind of like what we said on Bridge on the River
[2:20:28] Kwai, David Ian had to make that first before he could do launch
[2:20:31] of Arabia. Yeah.
[2:20:32] This is the similar kind of comparison.
[2:20:35] This is his bridge on the river Kwai.
[2:20:37] Dune is his launch of Arabia. So no movie sequels to play from
[2:20:40] our 20 49ers? Yes, and maybe that's for the
[2:20:43] best. But in showing how to make a
[2:20:45] legacy sequel if you want artistic credit and how not to
[2:20:48] make one if you want to make money, and in pushing forward
[2:20:51] the career of the Navy, nerve. The influence of the film has
[2:20:53] been felt, we think. Yeah, definitely for good and
[2:20:56] for bad, all the right movies ranking.
[2:21:03] And we've arrived at the end of Blade from the 2049.
[2:21:06] Now it's time for us to each give our scores.
[2:21:08] I'm going to send and see if it's more Blade rather than
[2:21:11] Blade Runner or just another sequel.
[2:21:13] What's the you chose this one? Your summary and score for Blade
[2:21:16] in the 2049 please. I think this is more Blade
[2:21:18] Runner than Blade Runner, and it's exactly what I wanted.
[2:21:21] I wanted more of the same. I wanted to go back to that
[2:21:24] restaurant that I've been to when I was younger and had that
[2:21:27] that food that I tasted and I wanted it to taste exactly the
[2:21:29] same when I went back, and I did.
[2:21:31] And it just had more ingredients in it and it was fresher and it
[2:21:33] was a little bit nicer, if I'm completely honest.
[2:21:36] And it's just a beautiful thing to go back to such a world and
[2:21:40] have a trip with such respect and such regard for the
[2:21:44] audience. And I think that's what you've
[2:21:46] did. He made this for people who
[2:21:48] really love the first film. I love what it's trying to say.
[2:21:51] I love the depth of it. I love going through it and how
[2:21:54] I see something different every single time.
[2:21:56] I love the fact we could have kept talking about the ending
[2:21:58] for another 20 minutes and it's looking up and to the left and
[2:22:01] it's this and it's, that's what, to me, that's what cinema is.
[2:22:05] It is a visual medium and it's about sitting with your friends
[2:22:09] after you've seen a film and talking about if we go and say
[2:22:11] Fast and Furious 975 and we'll come out of it, we've got
[2:22:15] nothing to talk about because it's usually I've seen that
[2:22:18] before, so what's the point of making it?
[2:22:19] What do you get from it? This.
[2:22:20] You get a lot from it and that's what I need, that's what I'm
[2:22:23] hungry for and that's what I really want.
[2:22:25] And for that reason, leaving that cinema, I felt like I was
[2:22:28] learning about cinema again. I felt like I'd learned
[2:22:31] something new and I'd seen something fresh and exciting.
[2:22:33] In 2017, I was still waiting for it to happen again.
[2:22:37] And every time I watch this, I do it sparingly and I'm not
[2:22:39] going to watch it again for another year now because I've
[2:22:41] seen it enough times for this. But I'm excited to know that
[2:22:44] it's there. So for me, it's a perfect film,
[2:22:47] it's a perfect 10. Wow.
[2:22:50] It's right up there for me. It's right up there for me.
[2:22:51] It's amazing. Yeah, I mean, we've covered a
[2:22:53] lot of ground with this one. And for me, this is filming at a
[2:22:56] very high level. Denisia Nerve must have
[2:22:59] respected him for taking on an impossible task, making a sequel
[2:23:02] to one of the most influential science fiction films ever.
[2:23:05] And in my mind, he's pulled it off.
[2:23:07] And not just him, It was hugely collaborative.
[2:23:10] The visuals from Roger Deakins are stunning.
[2:23:13] Some of the best cinematography I've ever seen.
[2:23:15] Hands in, man Benjamin Wallfish created the score.
[2:23:18] The ties in the van get us while being its own beast.
[2:23:21] That horn sound still ringing around my brain.
[2:23:23] Yeah. I think the performances are
[2:23:25] excellent across the board. Gotham leads it very well.
[2:23:28] Ford brings new decks to Deckard, which I wasn't
[2:23:30] expecting. Yeah, I'm as it almost as joy
[2:23:33] breaks hearts. Certainly mine.
[2:23:35] Yeah. And Sylvia Hoax's love.
[2:23:37] But us. But what really impresses me is
[2:23:39] how I expand on the themes of the original without just
[2:23:41] repeating them. His journey from obedient
[2:23:44] replicant to someone who chooses his own path, accepting he's not
[2:23:47] special and not being what makes him special.
[2:23:49] I think that's really good science fiction writing.
[2:23:51] Yeah. I mean, it's not perfect.
[2:23:53] The pacing is deliberate, shall we say.
[2:23:55] And as I said, it might benefit from an exciting B plot and set
[2:23:59] piece or two. Or every frame is beautiful.
[2:24:01] Every scene is there for a reason and is a film that gets
[2:24:04] better on each viewing. It's 100% a worthy sequel in my
[2:24:08] eyes. That's a feat in itself, but
[2:24:10] also as a film that gives me hope that Hollywood is still
[2:24:13] capable of intelligence, thought provoking science fiction.
[2:24:17] That makes it even more special. So it's a nine out of 10 for me.
[2:24:21] OK. I'm not your submarine score for
[2:24:24] BR2049 please. I'll get the negatives out the
[2:24:27] way first because there's very, very few of them.
[2:24:29] It is just a bit over long for me because it's not always
[2:24:32] better and they're all elements of the plot.
[2:24:34] The more that you think about them, the shakier they get.
[2:24:36] But that is really about it for the negatives.
[2:24:39] Everything else on an artistic level is exceptional.
[2:24:41] And as I said at the top, it's a sequel I didn't think we'd ever
[2:24:44] see, certainly not in this form. Like we've said, it's mad that
[2:24:48] the studios gave him that much money to basically do exactly
[2:24:51] what he wanted with no notes. It's such a one off in that
[2:24:56] sense. I've said before I'm not a huge
[2:24:59] failure fan. I don't quite get the hype, but
[2:25:01] I have to be honest and give credit words to you.
[2:25:03] I think this is easily his best film.
[2:25:06] What he's accomplished here is something I generally just don't
[2:25:10] think anyone else would have had the mindset or skill set to do.
[2:25:14] So it's really easy to score this for me.
[2:25:16] Is it as good as the original? No, it's a little bit of a step
[2:25:19] blow. So therefore it's also a nine
[2:25:21] for me. Very nice.
[2:25:23] But we also put this out there to our ACRM patrons to get their
[2:25:26] thoughts as loyal as love, but thankfully less murderous.
[2:25:30] And you've got some big opinions on the film.
[2:25:33] So we were, the Reds said. This is a 10A follow up to the
[2:25:37] original, expanded on its themes and wisely at the first films
[2:25:41] question about Deckard remain up for interpretation.
[2:25:44] Visually stunning, the scores, perfection and solid acting
[2:25:47] performances. I'm always left wondering just
[2:25:50] one thing at the end with Key on the steps.
[2:25:52] I want him to crack a small smile, then cut to black a smile
[2:25:56] from Key at the end. You get 1 Before he hits the
[2:25:59] steps, though, he smiles. Just as he says to your
[2:26:01] daughter, Yeah. I probably wouldn't go for that
[2:26:04] just at the end, to be honest. That feels like one step away
[2:26:06] from Joy turning up again, to be honest.
[2:26:08] Yeah, I think you just need, need to watch the end 6 times
[2:26:11] like we have and you'll see it's all there just in that it's all
[2:26:13] the right. No, it's just in the different
[2:26:15] order. Yeah, classic.
[2:26:16] Yeah. Thomas Boyd, not quite as big a
[2:26:19] fan, said This is a movie I want to love but can't.
[2:26:22] Beautifully shot and a natural extension of the world in the
[2:26:25] original, but the third act let's the film down.
[2:26:28] Things happened that made no sense just to set up a
[2:26:30] confrontation between Love and Key and facilitate the reunion
[2:26:34] between Decor and Stallone. 8 out of 10.
[2:26:38] I'm guessing Thomas means Stallone, unless I miss Slide
[2:26:40] turning up. One say that version.
[2:26:43] I'm just running up this step. And Kieran said massively
[2:26:52] underrated. I love how they flipped the
[2:26:54] mystery from the original on its head and I can't think of any
[2:26:57] other film where we can't be sure if the protagonist
[2:26:59] motivations are his own. Plus Vegas rising out of the
[2:27:03] sandstorm was class. It was that is classic you when
[2:27:07] you're right, you're right. So mostly very positive from our
[2:27:10] patrons and all together they read the film as what do you
[2:27:13] think? They gave it our turn.
[2:27:15] I'll say it's a solid 9 like. Yeah, it won't be perfect.
[2:27:18] I'll go night as. Well, nobody's as visually
[2:27:20] excited this thing. It was already solid, 9 out of
[2:27:24] 10, Yeah. So in total like this blade in
[2:27:27] the 204937 out of 40 grand score.
[2:27:31] Grand score and. That's us done on blazing the
[2:27:34] 2049. Hopefully you don't think we're
[2:27:36] not even close to baseline. Please, anything but.
[2:27:40] Yeah. Next time out, Luke, Westy and
[2:27:44] Matt are trading their podcasting Mike through a Glock
[2:27:46] 17 and a great soundtrack. You're talking professional
[2:27:50] killing John Cusack, Mini Driver and Grosse Point Blank.
[2:27:53] Popcorn certainly are. Yeah, looking forward to that
[2:27:55] one. Yeah, that's gonna have to.
[2:27:57] Do 10 years for it either 1010 years.
[2:28:03] And in the meantime, to find out more about becoming a patron,
[2:28:05] supporting what we do, and accessing our archive and bonus
[2:28:08] episodes, please visit patreon.com/all the Right
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[2:28:16] Also, if you could leave us a five star review on Apple
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[2:28:22] than you could ever know. Yes, it really does.
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[2:28:29] AT right movies, we post threads on there that tell the stories
[2:28:32] behind classic films. Everything we post has been said
[2:28:35] by someone involved in the production or it comes from
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[2:28:40] our podcast. So go check that out.
[2:28:42] And you also find this on Instagram, Threads, Blue Sky,
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[2:28:49] movies.com. Exactly.
[2:28:51] Try not to find us. That's harder.
[2:28:53] That's the harder thing. Yeah.
[2:28:55] Yeah. We're all off now to lie in the
[2:28:58] snow and currently how special we are.
[2:29:00] Not very. I would imagine, yeah, I'm just
[2:29:03] going to look up and to the left and then go to sleep.
[2:29:06] Rose by blank special though, so I'll come back for that and for
[2:29:09] now I for listening everyone. Thank you so much guys.
[2:29:12] Take care.

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