# Blue Velvet (1986) | Ep. 54 - Part 1

An episode of [All The Right Movies](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1471502633), 28 Feb 2025, 1 h 22 min.

Audio: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/APO2104944803.mp3

A studio gave David Lynch final cut on the condition he took a pay cut and worked cheap. The result is one of the most disturbing films ever made by a major distributor. Luke, Westy, and Matt begin the story. In Part 1 we cover the film's opening, director David Lynch, the cast, and the second act — including the severed ear in the grass, Kyle MacLachlan's curious everyman, and the menace Dennis Hopper brings to Frank Booth. Stay out of the apartment for now. Part 2, covering the crew, the finale, reception, and the film's legacy, is available now. Connect with ATRM: To join our fantastic community of film fans, support what we do, access our archive, listen to exclusive episodes, and a whole lot more, become an ATRM patron: Join the ATRM Community We're available on any podcast platform: Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify YouTube: Subscribe to our channelWe're across all major social channels too: Twitter: @ATRightMovies Instagram: @allthe_rightmovies Facebook: Join our movie group Bluesky: @alltherightmovies.com TikTok: @alltherightmovies Website: alltherightmovies.com

## Transcript

[0:04] All the right movies. So what do you know about the
[0:06] ear? Didn't my father tell you not to
[0:09] talk of that? Yeah, but you brought it up.
[0:11] You know anything? I don't know much, but bits and
[0:14] pieces I hear things. Yeah.
[0:17] My room is right above my father's office so.
[0:19] Above your father's office. So I heard a few things about
[0:22] the ear. Uh huh.
[0:23] And. Well, there are a couple of
[0:26] cases I get mixed up on, but one name that keeps coming up is
[0:30] this woman's singer. She lives in an apartment
[0:32] building that is real close to your house.
[0:35] It's also close to the field where you found the year.
[0:38] It's a strange world, isn't it? College kid Jeffrey Beaumont
[0:44] returns to his hometown to be the bedside of his eel and
[0:47] father after finding a 70 year Geoffrey tumbles into a dark
[0:51] void of pseudo masochism at the hands of torch songstress
[0:54] Dorothy Valens and psychotic Frank Booth.
[0:58] Blue Velvet established the late, great David Lynch as a
[1:00] uniquely singular voice in Hollywood, tackling themes
[1:03] rarely seen in mainstream cinema, helped in no small part
[1:06] by revelatory performances from Isabella Rossellini and Dennis
[1:10] Hopper. My name is Luke and the 2 candy
[1:13] coloured clowns with me are Matt.
[1:15] Man, I like Heineken. You like Heineken?
[1:18] And Westy. Shut up.
[1:20] It's Daddy, you shithead. Where's my bourbon?
[1:23] All the right movies are sending the love letter straight from
[1:26] our hearts. Hi everyone, welcome to All the
[1:46] Right Movies, a podcast on classic and hit films with
[1:49] something disturbing lurking beneath the surface.
[1:51] That's just mad, yes. It is this week.
[1:59] We're in the idealistic town of Lumberton, where there's
[2:01] something very weird going on. It's David Lynch's psycho sexual
[2:05] nightmare masterpiece Blue Velvet.
[2:08] It is. Oh dear.
[2:09] Oh dear. A long time coming it is.
[2:12] Yeah. Before we dive into the strange
[2:15] world of Blue Velvet is just a little bit of information on how
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[3:43] Thank you so much guys. Right, back to business.
[3:46] OK, take a Blue Velvet. Yeah.
[3:49] Deep breath. Why?
[3:51] Why? OK, well, here it is.
[3:53] All right. My choice.
[3:54] Yes. And I feel like I need to
[3:56] explain myself because, you know, this is a very, very
[4:00] disturbing film. If you've just seen it for the
[4:03] first time because we're covering it on the show, then
[4:06] sorry, I suppose you're. Welcome, OH.
[4:09] You're welcome either. One.
[4:11] I'd go with that one. But we've had it on the Paul a
[4:13] few times and I don't think it's ever come close to winning.
[4:16] But with the side passing of David Lynch last month, yeah, I
[4:19] felt we had a unique opportunity to talk about the film in
[4:22] tribute to the great man himself.
[4:23] Definitely. Yeah, it's a disturbing film.
[4:26] It is with a lot of ambiguity about what Lynch is trying to
[4:29] say. And obviously that became his
[4:31] trademark. Yes.
[4:32] I mean, you may as well be talking in a different language.
[4:35] Yeah. And those are the things that
[4:37] kind of would often put me off a film, but this one really
[4:39] captivated me when I first watched it in my late teens.
[4:42] Much like Jeffrey, I was repulsed and intrigued by the
[4:45] darkness of the film and it turned me into a dividend, not
[4:49] leading to what at heart Mulholland, Dr. and of course
[4:51] Twin Peaks. But this is where the lynching
[4:54] nightmare started for me and I never want to wake up from it to
[4:57] be honest. Yeah, very nice.
[4:59] Yeah. There's so much to say about
[5:00] this film with great performances and spellbinding
[5:03] scenes, truly memorable scenes that really imprint themselves,
[5:07] burn them onto your brain. Yeah.
[5:09] We're headed for a Bombay ride. We are.
[5:11] Matt, why do you want to talk about Blue Velvet?
[5:14] I don't want. Can we do Mary Poppins again,
[5:18] please? That was a one and done, Matt.
[5:21] Yeah. Right, fair enough.
[5:23] No, for me, I've always had a list in my head if the directors
[5:26] really, really needed to cover on classic and Lynch was pretty
[5:29] much at the top of it. There was certainly no one else
[5:32] like him. And as he said, this film, it's
[5:34] been up a few times before, so it is a shame that it's taken
[5:37] Lynch's passing for it to finally win.
[5:39] But at the same time, that means there's no better time to talk
[5:42] about it and to celebrate the man himself.
[5:44] And I'm like you, Luke. This was my gateway to David
[5:46] Lynch. And I think gateway is the exact
[5:48] right phrase to use for him. And this, because there's no
[5:51] other director creates films where you truly feel you've
[5:55] stepped into a different world, where it looks similar and it
[5:59] looks familiar. But this something where the
[6:01] normal rules don't apply all the same, nothing is predictable,
[6:04] where very little might make sense.
[6:06] But if it doesn't make sense, that's also OK.
[6:09] And overall, this is a film. One of the things to find really
[6:12] interesting about it is you can come away from it particularly
[6:15] like the first time, think, Oh my God, the things I've seen in
[6:17] this, and actually you haven't. It's not that graphic a film.
[6:21] That's the suggestion of the darkness and the violence which
[6:25] filled us through everything, which we'll definitely talk
[6:28] about. Yeah, if we must, what about
[6:31] Westy Blue Velvet? Well, unlike you guys, this
[6:33] wasn't my introduction to the Lynch world.
[6:35] That was Lost Highway, which was, yeah, I know, right, which
[6:39] made us kind of kind of go, but is there anything else that I
[6:42] want to check out or do I have to?
[6:44] And I kind of just want, well, I have to.
[6:45] And then this came, I think Wild at Heart was after that.
[6:47] And then this came after that because I've got a VHS like, you
[6:50] know, the triple VHS as you get. I think there was, there was
[6:53] this, there was Wild at Heart and there was Lost Highway.
[6:55] And I watched Lost Highway first, and then I just didn't
[6:57] touch the rest of the Boxer for about four years, I think.
[6:59] Naturally. Touching this at all?
[7:02] Not going near that. But then when I did, I was
[7:04] pleasantly surprised because I was really put off by the front
[7:07] cover, by the artwork. It looked just a little bit too
[7:10] sexy for me. A little bit.
[7:11] Just a little. Bit just a little bit, just a
[7:13] bit sleazy. Blue velvet gas mask on the back
[7:16] with Hopper. And I thought, well, I've just
[7:18] seen Speed and I didn't really, I was terrified of him in that.
[7:21] So I don't know if I want to get into this.
[7:23] And it's just one of them films. The more you watch it, the more
[7:26] you appreciate his artistry. I think it was a direct reaction
[7:28] to June and the way he was trying on that film.
[7:31] And we'll get into that. I think it's brilliantly put
[7:34] together in the ways of its abstraction, which we'll talk
[7:37] about as well. Because he does say that he
[7:39] likes a concrete story, which is what this is.
[7:42] But it's littered with with abstraction, with distraction,
[7:45] with taking you away from the narrative and making you think,
[7:47] well, what's that bit about over there?
[7:48] And he makes you look across the street when you should be
[7:50] watching the road. And I think that's that's David
[7:52] Lynch all over. And this is one of them films
[7:53] that really nails at home. It's a difficult watch of times.
[7:57] It's a beautiful watch of times. Oh, yeah.
[7:59] It's heroin. It's everything there.
[8:01] It's a mix of everything. It's very David Lynch.
[8:03] It's a really good place to start.
[8:04] So let's go for it. Let's do it if we must.
[8:07] That was a pep talk, wasn't it? I felt like.
[8:09] Wasn't it? I feel great, yeah.
[8:11] It's about inches. Court Westie.
[8:17] I'm all in black for mourning for Lynch.
[8:18] You see, it's all working, it's all coming together.
[8:20] Blue Velvet was written and directed by David Lynch and
[8:23] produced by Fred Caruso for De Laurentius Entertainment Group
[8:25] and released on the 19th of September 1986.
[8:29] Filmed on location in Wilmington, NC, it stars Kyle
[8:32] McLaughlin as detective slash pervert Jeffrey Beaumont.
[8:37] For me, you know you can find out strange reaction to that
[8:41] question. Isabella Rossellini is Dorothy
[8:46] Valance Dennis Hopper as the scariest man in movie history TM
[8:51] So Frank Booth and Laura Dern as Sandy Williams.
[8:55] Atrm are headed to Lumberton, the town where people really
[8:57] know how much wood a woodchuck chucks.
[8:59] Yes, they do for that. The beginning.
[9:07] The opening, The Blue Velvet is uncertainly idealistic.
[9:10] Roses and white picket fences, gardening and fireman brick in
[9:13] the 4th wall. Matt, you're starting off our
[9:16] uncomfortable journey. Yes, I am.
[9:19] I mean, this is such a beautiful opening, isn't it?
[9:21] I mean. Isn't it just?
[9:22] This must be the best neighborhood in the world to
[9:25] live in. Just look how friendly that
[9:26] fireman is. He knows you and he's welcome.
[9:28] You're in. That's the bluest sky I've ever
[9:30] seen. the OR the reddest roses I've ever seen.
[9:33] I've never seen a more beautiful white picket fence and perfectly
[9:36] manicured on my entire life. Until you get up close and you
[9:40] see someone has collapsed and is dying on it.
[9:42] And then you really look underneath lawn and you see that
[9:45] squirm and massive insects that live underneath all the
[9:49] superficial beauty. Like everything you're going to
[9:51] experience and see in this film is summed up here.
[9:54] And it's also very David listen that he can drop in funny
[9:57] moments where they shouldn't really exist.
[9:59] Like the dog thinks it's a play time with a horse.
[10:02] Like Jeffrey's dad has dropped things.
[10:03] That's hilarious. What an opening.
[10:06] Lynch said on the opening. It's a real American film, and
[10:09] it starts with that first image of blue skies and picket fences
[10:12] and the roses and the angle looking up.
[10:14] It's something that had to be looking up because it's a
[10:16] childhood sort of image that taps just right into his
[10:19] childhood, his view of this ideal America.
[10:22] Yeah, so because of the tragedy that's folded out here, we have
[10:26] Jeffrey entering the scene, loves to throw stones for some
[10:29] reason. Just the bottles.
[10:31] Just that. Let's settle.
[10:32] How was he going to find the ear?
[10:33] I don't know, Pick throwing stones maybe.
[10:35] Yeah. OK, that's that'll do.
[10:36] That'll do. And I couldn't move away from
[10:40] hitting that. But even if I saw the ear, I
[10:41] would still. I've got to.
[10:42] I've got to smash that. I've started, so I'll finish.
[10:46] I have that kind of persistence where that's not going anywhere.
[10:49] But I think it's great. The sound design is great here.
[10:51] The ear doesn't necessarily look real, but I don't think it's
[10:53] supposed to. The answer crawling all over it,
[10:56] it's a great sound design. Here, it's a crickets and it's
[10:58] got that real kind of sense of the board and all of a sudden
[11:01] where you just think, well, don't pick it up what you're
[11:04] doing, you don't put it in a bag, Don't do that.
[11:06] This is ridiculous. Pick it up, get the bag and put
[11:09] it over your hand and pick it up.
[11:10] Don't pick it up with your hand. Use it with a stick, something I
[11:15] would tell us. I would have to go and tell
[11:16] somebody to come back with this to make sure I wasn't
[11:18] hallucinating. And then they'd help us pick it
[11:19] up because I would just lose me. I'm thinking that seeing an ear
[11:22] in the middle of a field, which is fine, but I think that's good
[11:24] because it foreshadows how he finds out about it.
[11:27] Sandy's overheard something, I've heard something about it.
[11:30] Everything's, you know, PSC, and there's nothing you've actually
[11:33] seen with your eyes until he sees it.
[11:35] And we're getting into all that now and rebels.
[11:37] But the thing that strikes me is how surrealist the police
[11:40] station is. It's like police squad and he
[11:43] goes in. Do you know when he's talking to
[11:44] him? And it's kind of like, that's a
[11:45] human. You're all right.
[11:46] You expect me to kind of just pause as he's pulling the
[11:48] coffee? Like the credit?
[11:50] Control. It's just so idyllic and it's so
[11:53] kind of over the top cartoonish with its color palette and the
[11:57] way it's all blocked in the ways and back in the other room, just
[12:00] staring at a map, bizarrely for no reason.
[12:02] And then again, once a little bit further on from the scene, I
[12:05] find it quite hilarious, but again, quite abstract, the way
[12:08] he's just getting so much information from this coroner.
[12:11] He's just standing there. Tell us about it.
[12:12] Yeah, my kid. Fuck off.
[12:14] Why is Jeffrey even in that room?
[12:16] He's like, oh, we'll go and see the current and then you show us
[12:18] exactly where you found it. And he's like, well, I can find
[12:20] out this and I can find out this.
[12:21] And he's like, oh, that's interesting.
[12:23] So like he's studying forensic science or something.
[12:25] Is it? He's like, you know, I've come
[12:26] back from school and I'm really interested in this.
[12:28] I wouldn't want to know. I'll just be like, can I just
[12:30] go? Yeah.
[12:32] It's just, it's the way that this builds everything up and
[12:36] you just think, well, what what is this?
[12:37] How playful is this going to be? And it's just the the tip of the
[12:41] iceberg before we start sliding down the other side, I think.
[12:43] Yes, very much. Yeah.
[12:45] We're talking about the IT obviously wasn't real, and it
[12:47] was created by makeup artist Jeff Goodwin and was initially
[12:51] supposed to be modeled on his own ear, but Lynch said that it
[12:53] looked like a child's ear, so he used the ear of producer Fed
[12:57] Caruso instead. Fred Caruso immortalized in a
[13:00] 70. It looks disgusting with that
[13:01] mold on it. Yes.
[13:02] Horrible, horrible. The worst things we've ever
[13:04] seen. Yeah, a human ear.
[13:07] Anybody asked him that? I found it a human.
[13:08] You know, a dog's ear. I mean, of course it's a human
[13:10] ear. How would you know it's a dog's
[13:13] ear? Lynch said.
[13:15] I don't know why it had to be an ear, except it needed to be an
[13:18] opening of a part of the body, a hole into something else.
[13:22] He sits on the head and goes right into the mind so it felt
[13:25] perfect. Yeah, I mean, subconsciously it
[13:26] totally works for the story as well.
[13:28] Whether he meant it or not, or whether he's just being, you
[13:30] know, cryptic even further after the film, I don't know, but
[13:33] that's David. That is, I think that's his.
[13:35] That's his middle name, isn't it?
[13:36] Yeah, David. Cryptic Lynch.
[13:40] Well, after that scene, we delve into this mystery ear and into
[13:44] this fever dream of Jeffrey Beaumont and his manifestation
[13:46] of evil, Frank Booth, and everything changes.
[13:50] Jeffrey goes to Detective Williams house to follow up on
[13:53] the ear, but he's told, you know, ask no questions, tell no
[13:55] lies. Maybe in time later on when
[13:57] everything's all said and done, I'll tell you.
[13:59] But that doesn't stop his curiosity, and neither does his
[14:02] encounter with Sandy either. And just to talk about Sandy for
[14:05] a moment, expertly played by Laura Dern.
[14:09] Yeah. Oh, she's amazing.
[14:10] She appears in a very surreal manner out of the pitch black
[14:14] darkness. She's an innocent.
[14:16] Vision of hope. It really takes his time to come
[14:19] to the front of that. That's great.
[14:20] She just pops about of nowhere and she knows about Jeffrey's
[14:23] ear revelation without any hint of an explanation as to why.
[14:27] And I think this same thing feels very familiar.
[14:29] It feels like that archetypal scene where our hero returns
[14:33] back to his hometown and finds the girl that used to live next
[14:36] door, who's blossomed into a beautiful woman.
[14:38] Yeah, but this isn't Mary from It's a Wonderful Life.
[14:40] Definitely not. No, no, no.
[14:42] It's not far off though, and it's not tall and visioned.
[14:45] It's like it's there, but it's. Not far off.
[14:47] Dark. A bit behind it all, yeah.
[14:49] And I think Sandy almost acts as a guardian Angel to Jeffrey,
[14:52] shown in the light at the end of his dark, disturbing tunnel that
[14:55] he wanders down. And I think that's the
[14:57] archetypal spoiled town that Lynch is trying to revoke from
[15:00] It's a Wonderful Life. It looks the same, feels the
[15:02] same. Yeah.
[15:03] Well, feels the same probably. That's not true.
[15:07] It's got a similar tone, it's in the same key, it's a different
[15:11] song. And this starts off the whole
[15:14] investigation. It's so tantalizing and
[15:16] disturbing the way that the doom laden noir music kicks in as
[15:19] that apartment building looms over Jeffrey.
[15:21] Yeah. It's almost as if he's created
[15:24] this building in his mind and all of the sort of things that
[15:27] happened inside it are part of his twisted brain.
[15:30] But then we're brought back down to earth with Sandy and
[15:32] Jeffrey's little meat. Cue to that, they've got going
[15:34] on with him doing the chicken walk.
[15:36] Amazing. Have you tried to do that?
[15:38] Yeah. Absolutely.
[15:40] Not I tried do this morning. I look like RoboCop.
[15:48] Sandy says it's kind of interesting and of course what
[15:50] she means by that is never, ever do that again because it's an
[15:53] embarrassment, mate. Arm around the shoulder as well
[15:56] when he's finished. Really.
[15:57] Uncomfortable. Yeah.
[15:58] Straight in there, yeah. Yeah, knew the kid with the
[16:01] biggest tongue in the world. Yeah, what happened?
[16:03] You know, moved away, I guess. Yeah, great story.
[16:06] Yeah. Pillow Talk.
[16:08] Calm down. So we're talking about Sandy.
[16:12] Molly Ringwald was top of Lynch's pilot player.
[16:14] Sandy reports conflicted. But it was either her or her
[16:17] mother who turned it down because she'd build up this
[16:19] wholesome big screen persona and didn't want to mess with it,
[16:22] bearing in mind three years earlier with space on there.
[16:24] So I'm not surprised. Well, that's true enough.
[16:27] That's that the rough speaking, the opportunity West.
[16:32] Didn't want to spoil that legacy, did you?
[16:34] No, exactly. So that would be why.
[16:35] But Lynch liked Laura down so much that she didn't even have
[16:38] to audition. But Lynch did have a meet up
[16:40] with Midlaplan just to see if their chemistry would be
[16:42] believable. Yes, which of course it is very.
[16:46] So far then, a little light hearted mystery for Jeffrey and
[16:49] Sandy. Nothing to worry about it seems.
[16:51] Not yet. That'll change with Geoffrey
[16:56] settling back into small town life.
[16:57] He's captivated by the mystery ear and hatches a crazy plan to
[17:01] get into Dorothy Valens apartment to have a Snoop
[17:04] around. It's a pretty good plan, I
[17:05] think. Yeah, I mean, he's got some
[17:07] balls. Yeah.
[17:08] Yeah, I have to say that. So I'm going to pick up where
[17:11] Geoffrey masquerades as the bug man.
[17:14] An insane idea, but it just shows that Jeffrey has got this
[17:18] kind of unquenchable desire to get to the bottom of this
[17:20] mystery. It's almost as if there's a
[17:22] seductive power of Dorothy Valance has drawn him into this
[17:25] apartment, and he has to do by any means.
[17:28] The apartment block where Dorothy lives is called Deep
[17:30] River Apartments. Not too subtle warning sign that
[17:33] Jeffrey's getting well over his head.
[17:35] Yeah. When he knocks on the door, the
[17:37] camera pushes into heighten, the claustrophobia of the situation
[17:40] made worse as soon as that door opens and Dorothy is behind it.
[17:44] And she's immediately a woman on the edge, half of her faces lit,
[17:48] one eye bulging with the anticipated horrors of the other
[17:52] side of the door. What's what's behind there?
[17:54] She's wearing a red dress, worn and signed straight away.
[17:57] The living area is so unsettled, literally red, and the kitchen
[18:01] seems like it offers some kind of solace with its light
[18:04] colours. Despite the unease, Dorothy has
[18:07] a really funny line. When there's a knock at the
[18:09] door, she says it's like Grand Central Station, really funny
[18:13] like that. But then Lynch subverts our
[18:15] expectations here. We're expecting Sandy, and we
[18:17] get this weird feller instead. The yellow man.
[18:19] Yeah, it's great moment. It is, yeah.
[18:22] What's he doing there? He's there for maybe 5 seconds.
[18:24] Why does he show up? Very strange.
[18:27] I think it's just an exercise in sustained tension and intrigue,
[18:30] the start of a journey that Jeffrey.
[18:32] Shouldn't take. Yeah, because obviously at this
[18:34] point Jeffrey has taken the key. And then we get the scene where
[18:37] he breaks into the apartment. And it seems on the surface,
[18:40] while this is going to be a very straightforward, suspenseful
[18:43] Hitchcockian scene of trying to avoid detection, which it is to
[18:46] a degree. But the way it Lynch spins it
[18:49] and it becomes this dark pseudo masochistic seduction scene
[18:53] which turns to this gawk young man who still feels like a
[18:55] teenager to me in this film, doesn't feel like an adult.
[18:58] And it turns into this CD volume because as soon as he's in there
[19:02] on his own, I'm on edge. I mean, you mentioned the
[19:04] apartment, Luke. It's the layout to me because it
[19:06] doesn't make sense. You've got the couch and the
[19:08] chairs and the TV with the couch and the chairs on turn towards
[19:11] the face, the TV like the normally wouldn't anyone else's
[19:14] house. Nothing makes sense here.
[19:16] It's one of those aspects where it's so subliminal, but it gets
[19:18] into your skin and it stays there because we've gone from
[19:21] that open and sunny daylight to something truly dark here.
[19:24] It is again quite funny how Lynch can just drop in a little
[19:27] off here because it is quite funny that Jeffrey chooses now
[19:30] of all times to break the seal because that Heineken yard
[19:33] earlier that's come back to haunt them.
[19:35] Like it's the very definition of could you not have gone before
[19:38] you left the house? If you need the toilet, don't go
[19:40] do it in a stranger's house when you're snooping around.
[19:43] Yeah, it's still. Around the bathroom when you're
[19:45] finished, Like, yeah, what you're doing.
[19:47] Exactly. But that leads to the most
[19:50] Hitchcockian moment of the scene, which is when Sunday
[19:52] blasts the horn three times to 1.
[19:54] Dorothy's come back, but he flushes the toilet just to the
[19:57] exact time. So it could say that is
[19:59] brilliant and it's the scene shows how remarkable the film is
[20:02] shifting tones frequently within the same scene.
[20:06] This has started off quite exciting, like it's a detective
[20:09] thriller, but then Jeff is traps the tension ramps right up
[20:12] because he namely gets caught until the phone rings, which
[20:15] distracts Dorothy. Yeah, but now he's spying on 1/2
[20:18] naked woman and we are in there with him, so maybe he should be
[20:21] caught and then he is and he's got a knife.
[20:24] Just thought. And she's making him strip.
[20:25] Like where else can the film go at this point?
[20:27] Like it truly can't get any darker or weirder than this.
[20:31] That moment when Dorothy hears the noise and she kind of coolly
[20:34] plays it, but then goes and gets the knife and then creeps up,
[20:37] like against the wall so Jeffrey can't see what she's doing.
[20:40] That was one of the scenes that really stuck out to me.
[20:43] Her performance in that moment. It's unbelievable.
[20:46] He says. I just want to, I just want to
[20:47] leave. And she's like, no way you're
[20:49] staying. I want to see you.
[20:50] Yeah. It's horrible.
[20:53] He always uses that vantage point as well, doesn't he of the
[20:55] apartment, Like when you guys were talking about the layout of
[20:57] it, it's always that one camera angle throughout the whole film.
[21:00] That's what that's the angle that to make us should use for
[21:03] here just. I would.
[21:06] Have watched that. Yeah, I've got to see who's
[21:08] doing that. Yeah, do right.
[21:09] Right. I mean, you guys are talking
[21:11] about things getting weird. You were talking about getting
[21:12] really weird. We have to.
[21:16] Here he comes, the big man. You'll never forget it.
[21:19] If if you haven't seen the film, stop this now and go and watch
[21:22] it just so we can talk. You can just really appreciate
[21:24] what we're talking about here because this is so gripping but
[21:28] so uncomfortable. It's so hard to watch.
[21:31] The way he just sips the bourbon then downs it and then the way
[21:35] he talks to it is just disgusting.
[21:36] Don't look at me, Daddy. You like to call me daddy, calls
[21:41] on Mommy. Daddy, open your legs wide.
[21:42] I want to see it. I mean, you thought that is just
[21:44] into this. He is 100% committed to this
[21:48] moment in this scene. But it's one of them
[21:50] performances that just stays. When that mask first goes on,
[21:53] you just say what on earth is going on?
[21:56] What is that? What's he doing?
[21:57] And then he turns really childlike and just starts kind
[22:01] of like breaking down and everything's just installed the
[22:04] Blue Velvet references and it's all about that song, It's all
[22:07] about his. And then it's just all of a
[22:09] sudden ramps up to this madness and then he's gone and it's
[22:13] just, what did I just what? What did I just watch?
[22:16] And then the second time you watch it, you realise when she's
[22:18] on the phone, you think she's talking to her son, but she's
[22:21] saying, you know, daddy and Mommy, and it's saying Mommy's
[22:24] gay. And she's actually talking to
[22:25] Frank. Frank's on his way over and
[22:27] again, it's really sinister. So on the second time you watch
[22:29] it, it gets even deeper and it kind of just grinds a little bit
[22:32] more. I could not just watch that
[22:34] happen from a closet, and I don't know if I could.
[22:37] I would have to do something. But I just find that's all kind
[22:40] of difficult to sip through from all of the subtleties there from
[22:43] Lynch and all of the unsubtleties and all the right
[22:45] in your face. You just think that was really
[22:48] intelligently way to play the that's so original.
[22:50] I've never seen anything like it since, and I don't think I ever
[22:52] will. This is why I don't like
[22:53] watching this film with anyone else and that's kind of I'm like
[22:57] that with the Lynch films like Lost Highway in my Holland Dr.
[23:00] If it's first time watching this with someone else, they'll turn
[23:02] around you and they'll go. You like this you've seen.
[23:05] This wrong with you. And you want to watch it again.
[23:08] And then people start thinking you're weird.
[23:09] But the the genius of Lynch and the genius of Hot Wire is that
[23:12] they're not taught by this. They just go, oh, I know what
[23:14] you were trying to say. You.
[23:16] Yeah, you were. But we know what you're trying
[23:17] to say. We, we get that.
[23:18] But I think he pulls it off. Somehow this works.
[23:21] Somehow it's watchable. Somehow it's painful and really
[23:24] electric. And really terrifying and really
[23:27] wonderful actually, if you once you look at the acting that's in
[23:30] place here, the performance that's in place, it's it's
[23:34] wonderfully played out, which feels like you're watching
[23:36] something on stage. It feels like a real theatre
[23:38] production. Yeah, it does.
[23:39] I think that wide angle helps as well.
[23:41] It does, yeah. Yeah, they can probably set
[23:43] dressed and it feels like a stage.
[23:45] It does. Yeah.
[23:46] Well, the first scene filmed was this we have seen.
[23:49] And Rossellini said that was because Lynch wanted to get it
[23:52] off and done with and out the way.
[23:53] And understandably, she was very embarrassed when she was new in
[23:56] front of Dennis Hopper because this was the first time that
[23:59] met. She's having to spread her legs
[24:00] open here and she was naked under the rope.
[24:03] And she actually apologized off before the discomfort.
[24:05] But he just said, I've seen it all before.
[24:07] Which part of it is? I think he's seen most things
[24:11] before then. Yeah, you can't shock Dennis
[24:13] Hopper, I don't think. Not by this point in his life.
[24:15] Definitely. Not, as we've been seeing,
[24:17] really troubling this scene. Difficult to watch, harder to
[24:20] forget. Which is why, when filming
[24:23] Isabella, Russellini was slightly confused at Lynch
[24:26] laughing as the scene was being filmed.
[24:29] The mad bastard he's. Getting away with it.
[24:31] That's why it's like I'm actually filming it.
[24:33] This was in my head. It's now in real life.
[24:35] It's weird. He said that he found the
[24:37] strangeness of the scene very humorous, and Rossellini later
[24:41] said that now she can't watch the scene without laughing.
[24:44] OK. Right.
[24:45] Just two people in the world then, yeah.
[24:47] I was going to say I'm glad somebody can.
[24:50] And during this rape scene, Lynch cut out a moment where
[24:52] Frank hits Dorothy at the quest of the MPAA.
[24:56] He cuts the Jeffrey in the closet instead and move with
[24:58] with. Lynch claims made the scene even
[25:00] more disturbing. Yeah, I mean, if that's
[25:02] possible, but it's kind of goes back to what you were saying,
[25:05] Matt. The less you see, the more you
[25:06] make up in your head and the worse it is.
[25:09] Yes. Well, a horrific scene.
[25:11] And that brings us to our first question from an ATRM Patreon
[25:15] supporter. And that is another benefit.
[25:17] If you sign up to Patreon, you can get to ask us a question for
[25:20] the film that we're covering. This one comes from Dane de
[25:23] Josie. How are you doing, Dane?
[25:24] Hello. Dane Dane says Frank Booth drug
[25:27] induced introduction in the apartment is a memory that has
[25:29] been burned into my subconscious since my first viewing of Blue
[25:32] Velvet. Yeah, what other shocking or
[25:35] unexpected Mormons in film have stuck with you for years?
[25:38] Slash decades? Right.
[25:40] Where see are there any movie moments that have stuck in your
[25:43] head for years slash decades? Yes, many and unfortunately, but
[25:48] I mean, they're all for the right reasons and they're all
[25:50] from films that I really admire. Thankfully, none that have been
[25:53] put in there just for the sake of being put in there.
[25:56] I think the Murphy's death in RoboCop was one of the earliest
[25:59] ones for me that stands out. And recently born Tomahawk.
[26:02] I think that really that sequence, yeah.
[26:07] Two endings that really, really hit home would be the mist.
[26:11] I think that was just that's never going to leave good punch
[26:14] the end and that was a real good punch.
[26:15] And the ending of old boy as well.
[26:16] The original obviously that was that was that came from
[26:21] absolutely nowhere. And one that Florida's as well
[26:23] was the the shoe scene in Georgia Rabbit when he just
[26:26] looks to the side and the shoes are yeah, that's what was that
[26:29] stayed with us for a long time. You know that hits, right?
[26:31] Well, brilliant. But ones that don't necessarily
[26:33] go back too often, Let's be honest.
[26:35] No, don't need to see just like this one.
[26:37] Don't need to say this one. This is the thing that I really
[26:40] did avoid when I was watching. I must have watched this film
[26:43] about four times, but I've kind of like through one eye I've
[26:46] watched. This, yeah.
[26:50] There were moments in film that were notorious to me before I
[26:53] even got a chance to see them, and as such I still get quite
[26:56] nervous in the lead up to those scenes when watching the films.
[26:59] The crucifix scene from The Exorcist, All right.
[27:02] Right. And the first view of
[27:04] Leatherface in Texas Chainsaw Massacre when he smashes Kurt's
[27:07] head in. Yeah, I watch Pulp Fiction at
[27:09] the time it came out. So I would have been, I'd say,
[27:12] 14. And I don't think I should have
[27:14] been subjected to Marcellus Wallace's rape scene at that
[27:16] age. No, that's correct.
[27:17] I remember that for a long time, Yeah.
[27:19] I think sure, we would have all been around about the same age.
[27:22] It's that saxophone blaring away that I think are first, yeah.
[27:27] It's the other guy's reaction as well.
[27:28] When it cuts that like split out there with Willis in the
[27:30] background. That guy is just, it's just
[27:32] horrible. Yeah.
[27:35] And I've mentioned in the past it's the same as what you've
[27:38] just said Westie. I got RoboCop on VHS when it
[27:41] came out. I think I was 7.
[27:43] And the same where Murphy gets tortured and killed by Clarence
[27:46] or almost killed. These sickening.
[27:48] It really is sickening. If you revisit it now, DMA.
[27:51] No, it's, it's stretched quite a bit.
[27:53] It's that end of meals death as well.
[27:55] I was kind of toying between the two, the acid meals, yeah.
[27:58] Don't touch me, man. Get away from me, man.
[28:01] Gets hit by the car just destroyed, which is more funny
[28:04] now? Let's be honest, we're laughing
[28:05] about it, but at the time. It is hilarious, a man
[28:08] exploding. But at the time, no, I didn't
[28:13] sleep for weeks. And Matt, any scenes that stand
[28:15] out for you? Yeah, I've gone for three here.
[28:18] The first one, Barbara's death, Night of the Living Dead, just
[28:23] the fact that it's her reanimated brother who comes
[28:25] back but just obviously doesn't recognize her because he's a
[28:28] zombie. And just the way she just gets
[28:30] pulled into the the crowd of zombies outside, just the
[28:35] thought of what happens to her is just horrific because.
[28:38] Miles worse, isn't it? It is miles West because as well
[28:41] you think well she's the damn Muslim stress she's going to get
[28:43] rescued at the end of the film. I thought another pack of
[28:45] zombies to be eaten and couldn't believe it when I saw that for
[28:49] the first time. Second one I'm going for is
[28:52] Funny Games, the Michael Hanneker film.
[28:54] Like the original 1. I mean, I don't mean nice.
[28:57] But yeah, well. Fair.
[28:59] Enough. Yeah, great.
[29:01] If anyone hasn't seen it, it's about.
[29:02] Two youths who terrorize this family.
[29:04] And the scene that I will never, ever forget is one of the use
[29:07] makes the mother do this really twisted version of like hide and
[29:11] seek, like hot and cold has got to find something.
[29:13] And she's getting closer and closer.
[29:15] And he just turns and he winks into the camera.
[29:18] He breaks the 4th wall and he makes you complicit in it.
[29:21] And I was like, what? The book the 4th Wall, and it's
[29:25] horrifically done and I won't spoil what she finds, but it's
[29:28] terrifying. It's not pleasant.
[29:30] It's. Definitely not pleasant.
[29:32] And the last one I want to mention is Wake and Fright, the
[29:35] Australian film. Because nice.
[29:36] Yeah, brilliant. This is film that comes.
[29:38] With a content one, because this comes with a kangaroo hunt scene
[29:41] which was 100% genuine. I'll never watch that film again
[29:45] because that scene is beyond horrific.
[29:47] Yeah, and it's disgusting. You know I.
[29:49] Suppose thanks to the. Question, dear Yeah, thanks for
[29:52] being I was. Hoping it was going to be a
[29:53] welcome. Break away from this scene to be
[29:55] honest, let's. See where we can go from here.
[29:58] Good grief. And this scene, I mean.
[30:03] Surely one of the most disturbing character intros ever
[30:06] committed to the big screen, Yeah?
[30:13] The director, the first time that we talked about David.
[30:17] Lynch on any of our podcasts. An absolute crime.
[30:21] But yeah, this is a hell of an introduction.
[30:22] Yeah, it is possibly. His greatest?
[30:24] Achievement in his own words. It's a film about things that
[30:27] are hidden within a small city and within people.
[30:30] Matt, your thoughts on his work as director?
[30:34] I mean, I don't mind admitting I.
[30:35] Think this is like the most difficult one we've had to do to
[30:38] kind of crack. What does Lynch do here and how
[30:41] does he do it? Totally.
[30:43] But then I kind of had the realization that trying to
[30:45] explain the how and the why when it comes to Lynch is a pointless
[30:48] endeavor because totally everything he's made apart from
[30:51] Straight Story and arguably Elephant Man is a puzzle box.
[30:55] And there aren't any easy answers here.
[30:56] But I think the reason a lot of people come to Blue Velvet first
[30:59] is because this isn't the type of Lynch film where it's like
[31:02] that stream of consciousness streamed from his head onto the
[31:05] screen. Like Lost Highway.
[31:07] This is a Lynch film where he loosely sets up the rules of the
[31:10] world but then turns everything on its head.
[31:12] Like the plot in the sense is quite straightforward.
[31:14] It's a kidnapping and there's a critical underworld that's the
[31:17] bare bones. But no one has understood dream
[31:20] logic better than Lynch. The feeling of things can happen
[31:22] that don't feel logical, but at the same time they do feel
[31:25] logical. And the thing about dream logic
[31:27] is all it takes is a little tweak and it feels like a
[31:30] nightmare instead. How many times have we all had a
[31:33] dream where it's something very innocuous on the surface, but
[31:36] something is just off about it and it doesn't feel quite right
[31:40] and you'd like it to stop? That's what David Lynch does.
[31:43] Yes, please. I want all this to stop please,
[31:46] because I don't. Like it?
[31:47] Yeah. When Jeffrey.
[31:48] Goes for that walk in the. Neighborhood.
[31:50] Why is it scored like a horror film?
[31:52] Just that tracking shot of him looking up at the tree branches.
[31:56] Yeah, like, say, innocuous, but incredibly creepy and disturbing
[32:00] for some reason. So they start to get out.
[32:02] Isn't. It it's very get out when they.
[32:04] Take Jeffrey for the ride in the car.
[32:06] Why does the woman stand on top of it and start dancing?
[32:08] Don't know, but that's the point.
[32:10] Sometimes life is inexplicable. When is this film actually set?
[32:14] Because so much of it Hawks back to the 50s.
[32:17] Equally, a lot of it is definitely the 80s.
[32:20] I think his use of transitions and fades and surreal glimpses
[32:24] of images like Frank Snarly to link scenes together.
[32:27] Frank literally blinking in and out of existence at one point.
[32:30] It is like coming in and out of consciousness and it's all
[32:34] subliminal and it all builds. Like I say, this feeling of
[32:36] dream logic, nothing I'm seeing as making sense and I can't
[32:39] explain it, but maybe I shouldn't even try to.
[32:42] No, you shouldn't, because no matter.
[32:43] How much we theorize and hypothesize about what this
[32:46] means and what this is about, and the central narrative we'll
[32:50] never. Know for sure, because Lynch.
[32:52] Just never explains, no. Could be something entirely.
[32:54] Different. Completely different.
[32:56] Yeah, yeah. I think it's just the.
[32:59] Fearlessness of all of this. I think his mind is just
[33:01] fearless. And I think he's at a stage in
[33:03] his career where he doesn't even need to prove himself to anyone
[33:07] else but himself. And I think that's what he's
[33:09] he's doing here. He's putting his ideas down as a
[33:11] screenplay and then working from that.
[33:13] I mean, how much of this abstraction that Matt's talking
[33:17] about that we're all talking about, you know, women dancing
[33:19] on the car, everyone inside this is it for a start, how how much
[33:22] of that is on the on the page is scripted or how much of that is
[33:26] just Lynch's mind, the cogs turning?
[33:28] It's like he's got a sandbox and he's got enough sand in it to
[33:31] build sandcastles, which is the plot.
[33:33] But it's not the sandcastles you're expecting them to build.
[33:35] It's something completely different.
[33:37] And you're saying, how did you make that?
[33:38] I was sand? Where did that come from?
[33:40] I'm just expecting this and I'm getting this, and it's just a
[33:43] really good way of throwing the audience off.
[33:46] But at the same time, he's really entertaining himself.
[33:49] And by doing that as a film maker, you really entertain the
[33:51] audience because they're looking for meaning, they're looking for
[33:54] reason. They're looking for What does
[33:56] reason mean? And he?
[33:58] Taps into that and he'd like Matt said he's just he's the
[34:01] king of the dreamscape. He's the king of the question
[34:04] and reality. All of lost highways just is
[34:06] that a dream or is that reality? All of this, even these bits in
[34:09] here like Robins the flowers at the start, firemen waving like,
[34:13] yeah, I hope he's not on the way to a job because you should be
[34:15] taking things a little bit more seriously.
[34:17] There's a house fire down the street and he's like, well,
[34:20] hello. Just Frank, as a character
[34:23] should. Be enough for any film, but this
[34:24] still has more layers than that. And even when Frank's there,
[34:28] you're still thinking about something else.
[34:29] It should be like Heath Ledger in The Dark Knight where it just
[34:32] completely rips the screen off and it's just that one singular
[34:35] guy. But the whole the squad is with
[34:37] him. I played really well.
[34:39] It's really well cast by, you know, Brad Durif's just perfect
[34:42] casting and Lynch knows what he's doing.
[34:44] Everyone looks right, everyone just has the place.
[34:47] And I think that's why his career is so celebrated and
[34:50] especially this film, because this is the first film where he
[34:52] went. I am in complete control of
[34:54] everything and everyone and this is what I'm going to do.
[34:56] And it's pure David Lynch. It is pure David Lynch.
[34:59] No, I like him. No, he's wolf in.
[35:02] An absolute. Maze here.
[35:03] It's easy to get lost in stuff full of context and sub context
[35:07] there. Toxic masculinity, Male gears.
[35:10] The wood industry at the centre of the film is full of phallic
[35:13] imagery. Strangely enough.
[35:15] Yeah. Yeah, Lynch.
[35:17] Seems obsessed with this. Norman Rockwell picketed fenced
[35:20] 50s idealism of his youth. He must have seen some weird
[35:23] shit as a kid to then fill this dream like a deal of Americana
[35:27] with this horrendous Freudian nocturnal nightmare.
[35:30] Yeah, Freudian. Nocturnal.
[35:31] Nightmare. They should put that on the VHS.
[35:38] But being a fan? Of linear narratives as I am,
[35:41] and the genre itself. I do love the noir plot elements
[35:44] to Blue Velvet. Yeah, it's got all the classic
[35:47] beats. Sleazy plot cabinet for me.
[35:49] Obviously a sinister villain, femme fatale, a morally
[35:53] ambiguous hero with the majority of the plot existing at night.
[35:57] Perfect. It's Jeffrey's investigation
[35:59] that I really love. Following the car, taking
[36:02] pictures, building his case up to his neck in Vice.
[36:04] I love it. I think it could maybe have
[36:07] turned into pastiche, particularly with the music.
[36:09] But Lynch always keeps you on your toes.
[36:11] And just when you're being taken down this kind of very
[36:14] straightforward narrative investigation path, you brought
[36:17] right back into this perverse nightmare with scenes of sexual
[36:20] violence just to keep you on edge, just to mess with you.
[36:23] Yeah. Yeah.
[36:23] He never lets you settle in one particular genre, which always
[36:27] keeps me on edge. You can't categorize any part of
[36:31] this film. No, no, it's a Lynch film.
[36:35] And if a certain interaction with.
[36:36] George Lucas had gone a different way.
[36:38] David Lynch may never have made Blue Velvet.
[36:41] At the time, Lucas was in pre production on Return of the Jedi
[36:44] and he offered the directing job to a number of directors.
[36:48] David Lynch was one of them. He was.
[36:51] Never close though. Would have been obviously can.
[36:54] You. Imagine what those Ewoks were
[36:56] getting up to. Oh my God, the pit.
[36:59] I'm trying to think what that would have been a.
[37:02] Massive. Mask on it.
[37:07] Get my lightsaber, you fuck. Lynch met with Lucas.
[37:15] But said that he had next door to no interest in doing Jedi and
[37:19] he instead made June. June was a critical than
[37:23] commercial flop. It's not the Denis Villeneuve
[37:26] adaptation that we've got over the last few years.
[37:28] It had Sting in, it was in great nick in that nappy.
[37:32] Lovely. Yeah, no excuse.
[37:34] Yes. In that nappy.
[37:36] His hair is literally. Fields of gold.
[37:43] And it was a critical. And commercial flop which led
[37:46] Lynch to revisit some old ideas that he had more in line with
[37:49] his surreal visions from his debut feature a raise ahead yeah
[37:53] yeah so despite. Dune being a huge flop for Lynch
[37:56] and Dino De Laurentiis, Laurentiis was still convinced
[37:59] by Lynch to back his next project, and also because the
[38:02] studio had mauled Dune. Lynch wanted total creative
[38:05] control on Blue Velvet. Laurentiis gave it to him, but
[38:08] he slashed the budget from $10 million to $6 million, demanded
[38:12] a maximum 2 hour time and Lynch had to take a pay cut.
[38:15] And Lynch said after June I. Was down so far that anything
[38:19] was up. So it was just a euphoria.
[38:21] And when you work with that kind of feeling, you can take
[38:23] chances, you can experiment. Which is exactly what he's
[38:25] doing. Yeah, that's exactly what you've
[38:27] been. Saying that creative freedom,
[38:29] he's just let his mind run wild. 6,000,000 as well.
[38:33] He's probably thinking. Great.
[38:34] I can do that. That's not a problem.
[38:35] Yeah. Do you know June?
[38:36] Was about 20 million. Yeah, that's ridiculous.
[38:39] Crazy. Yeah.
[38:41] Despite the town in blue. Velvet being called Lumberton.
[38:44] It was actually shot in Wilmington, NC, right?
[38:46] However, there is a town called Lumberton about 70 miles away.
[38:50] Lynch had to contact the mayor of Lumberton to get his blessing
[38:52] for the using the town's name. Wilmington was ideal for Lynch
[38:55] because it had that idealistic, picture perfect small town that
[38:59] he was looking for. Yeah, it looks great.
[39:01] Looks like a set. Looks fake.
[39:03] I mean it looks. Fake.
[39:04] It just looks built. Yeah, so the original cut of the
[39:07] film came in at 4 hours. Need to see that and Ledge
[39:10] chopped it in half. I should have made like 2 films.
[39:12] I would have loved to have seen them.
[39:14] Yeah, the deleted scenes were considered lost, but there was a
[39:16] good chunk of them available on the Criterion release of Blue
[39:19] Velvet and they're also on YouTube so check them out.
[39:21] It was stipulated it. Was in his contract two hours?
[39:25] Why is he made a four hour film, maximum two hours?
[39:29] I've made. Twice the length.
[39:30] Is that OK? Dino No, definitely not.
[39:32] Definitely. Not This is not good enough.
[39:34] He's made it twice. As long on 1/3.
[39:35] Of the budget due. Yeah, and included.
[39:41] In those Saints is a lot more context about Frank and Don's
[39:44] relationship. Don worked as a mole for the
[39:46] police, but Frank kidnapped him and the son and also grew
[39:49] obsessed with Dorothy as a result.
[39:50] And there's also the introduction of Jeffrey's
[39:52] childhood sweetheart, a character completely removed
[39:54] from the final cut. Yeah, that seems complicated.
[39:57] Considering Sandys his childhood sweetheart or what?
[40:01] Seems like that's the role she's playing.
[40:02] Yeah, yeah. And you've got Dorothy as well.
[40:05] Adding a third woman into his life is what a player Jeffrey
[40:09] is. A three on the goal.
[40:10] Yeah, 3 on the goal player. Lynch has a reputation of being
[40:16] a bit. Of an Abraham Lincoln
[40:17] assassination obsessive and as such makes allusions to the
[40:20] great man in his films. The man who shot Lincoln was
[40:24] called John Wilkes Booth. Sharon Frank's surname, Jeffrey.
[40:28] Has to cross Lincoln. Street to get to the shady side
[40:30] of town. And at the end.
[40:32] The way that is shot references the way Lincoln was shot, the
[40:36] way that the yellow man's being shot, Ned.
[40:38] Right. OK, OK.
[40:39] Right, Yes, I. Got that?
[40:40] Yeah. And Lynch, obviously.
[40:42] He's a very enigmatic man, he said.
[40:44] Film or TV is like a magic act and magicians don't tell how
[40:48] they did their thing. He dislikes the idea of behind
[40:51] the scenes footage or making of films.
[40:53] Probably good job that he's not around, that we're doing it and
[40:56] I think he. Would get in touch.
[41:00] I think he'd be fine with it. We're being creative.
[41:02] He's happy with that, he said. People do it for sales.
[41:04] Or for money. But the film is the thing and
[41:07] should be protected. Fair enough, that's what.
[41:09] We were talking about on. The watch list a couple of
[41:11] episodes ago when we're talking about is the too much.
[41:14] I was seeing too much of Chris Nolan's new film already.
[41:18] Everyone before. Comes out.
[41:19] Just leave it alone, yeah? Yeah, the watch list, that's.
[41:22] Patreon podcast that we create exclusively, so sign up.
[41:26] Yep, listen, lots more available.
[41:28] Oh yeah, despite not. Being a fan of making off.
[41:30] Documentaries and interviews. David Lynch did allow someone on
[41:33] set to document his work. That man was Peter Bratz, a
[41:36] German student who'd written an essay on The Elephant Man and
[41:39] sent it to the producer of that movie, Mel Brooks.
[41:41] Bruce forwarded it to Lynch and then responded to Bratz saying I
[41:44] am interested, so he ended up inviting.
[41:46] Brats to the set To document the making of the film, Lynch
[41:49] introduced him to the cast and crew by saying there's a
[41:52] speeder. He wrote a poem about the
[41:53] Elephant Man and it took a while for that footage to surface,
[41:56] only being seen in 2016 when it was titled Blue Velvet Revisited
[42:01] and is a collage of still images and Super 8 footage.
[42:03] And it's also part of the Criterion package.
[42:06] Yeah, I've seen bits of. It it's nothing to really grab a
[42:09] hold of, right? OK, Bratz is trying to be.
[42:11] Surrealist on purpose because he's making things of David
[42:13] Lynch as anybody would. Yeah, yeah.
[42:17] Leave it to the. Artists.
[42:18] Yeah, I'm going to end on a quote from Isabella Rossellini
[42:21] about David Lynch, she said. David is a big artist and you
[42:25] don't get tired of Picasso and Michelangelo.
[42:28] So we don't get tired of David Lynch.
[42:30] He's an artist. Give him a.
[42:31] Fucking tuber to get you something out of it.
[42:38] The cast An unexpected cast. In Blue Velvet includes A
[42:44] sophomore effort, a fashion model, and the revival of a
[42:47] seasoned professional and seasoned hellraiser.
[42:50] We're starting with the fresh faced Carl McLaughlin as a
[42:52] Geoffrey Beaumont. Matt, he's your man.
[42:56] He is and I'm trying to make sense of him.
[42:58] Because I mean, he's obviously Lynch's go to guy.
[43:00] It's clear these who have such a harmonious working relationship.
[43:04] And I think it's interesting. Outside of his work with Lynch,
[43:06] has McLaughlin ever done anything particularly notable?
[43:10] I think it would be fair to say probably not really.
[43:12] I don't think that's really stuck outside Lynch.
[43:15] No, I don't think so, but. The reason he works so.
[43:17] Well, with Lynch is the understanding they have with
[43:20] each other. He totally gets what Lynch
[43:22] wants, and he totally understands what he wants in his
[43:25] films, and he delivers that because on the surface, Jeffrey
[43:28] could and should be such a typical handsome teen role.
[43:31] This could have been an early Tom Cruise role, for example, at
[43:34] that time. Yeah, Yeah, definitely.
[43:36] McLaughlin gives you something sort of different instead.
[43:38] I mean, some of those line readings are so stilted and
[43:42] wooden, but it has to be deliberate.
[43:43] That must be what Lynch wants from him.
[43:45] Yes. Yeah.
[43:46] And Jeffrey is such an oddball character to be the heart of
[43:49] this. I mean, we mentioned already,
[43:50] but bugging the ear up and taking it to the police, Just
[43:53] call them instead. Give them a call.
[43:56] Just walk away from it. The instant obsession he has
[43:59] with the case is bravado and taking the lead and doing his
[44:01] own investigation, but taking Sandy long for the ride like
[44:05] it's scooby-doo or something. Like none of this is normal, but
[44:08] it works in the context of the film, in that exchange he has
[44:11] for Sandy. I don't know if you're a
[44:12] detective or pervert. That's for me knowing you to
[44:15] find out. Like, who says that to a girl
[44:17] they're trying to impress? Yeah.
[44:19] She would be like bye. See you, see you later.
[44:23] I'd like to be the. Former, but I'm not the latter.
[44:25] Yeah, that's exactly. Yeah, you.
[44:27] Can't make that very clear. And that turned from a nerdy,
[44:30] geeky weirdo to someone who was pulled into some very dark
[44:33] sexual undercurrent with Dorothy.
[44:35] It is completely convincing, and it has to come from a
[44:37] performance. And the performance has to
[44:39] embrace all the darkness, all the weirdness, and is weird, as
[44:43] some of those line readings are. McLaughlin absolutely does that.
[44:47] I think it has to kind. Of play it a little weird and a
[44:50] little unremarkably to allow Isabella Rossellini and Dennis
[44:53] Hopper to grab the screen, which they do.
[44:56] Hello. McLaughlin had already worked
[44:57] with Lynch on June and became one of his go to guys.
[45:01] He wasn't first in line for the role of Jeffrey Beaumont.
[45:03] That was none other than Val Gilman.
[45:06] Yeah, who later said he turned. It down because the script he
[45:08] read was basically a hardcore porno.
[45:11] Brilliant. He said that if he received the
[45:14] script. Which ended up being the film.
[45:16] He would have taken the part. It's the same year.
[45:19] As Top Gun as well isn't it? What a tonal shift.
[45:23] Iceman double whammy. Yeah.
[45:25] And as we're on the big man. Himself, Kyle.
[45:27] We've got a second question from a Patreon supporter.
[45:30] This one. It comes from MB King.
[45:32] Hello, MB. Great name.
[45:34] Hello. MB He.
[45:35] Says. David Lynch found his old ego in
[45:38] Calm Clockland. What are some of the best
[45:40] director, actor, alter ego parents in cinema history?
[45:44] Right. Matt, what do you think?
[45:46] I think Michael Bean. In The Terminator and Aliens is
[45:50] how cool James Cameron would like to think he is.
[45:53] How good James Cameron would like I?
[45:57] Thought you said Sean Bean. For a second.
[46:01] Yeah, Sean Bean and Michael Bay. You know, yeah.
[46:04] That's what we need and that's what we need, yeah, I think
[46:07] Cameron would love to look as. Cool as Bean does in those two
[46:09] films, I think that's why he's got him in there.
[46:12] I think Richard Dreyfuss in close Encounters is absolutely
[46:15] Spielberg at the time. At the end of the film, when Roy
[46:18] Neary obviously leaves his family behind to go off with the
[46:20] aliens, that's 100% what Spielberg would have done.
[46:24] And I think it's it's probably the person in this film that's
[46:26] most like him. And the last one for me, John
[46:28] Turtero in Barton Fink manages to look like both the corns at
[46:32] the same time, which is quite a featuring.
[46:35] Yeah, yeah. Really good.
[46:37] I was thinking about the. Pairing of Clint Eastwood and
[46:40] Don Siegel, which more? Some very good films in the late
[46:43] 60s, seventies. I think Eastwood is kind of that
[46:46] tough bravado that Don Siegel came from, like that he really
[46:49] came from. Yeah, Eastwood worshipped him as
[46:51] well. Didn't he talk about him a lot?
[46:52] Loved him. I mean, obviously Dirty Harry,
[46:55] come on, Iconic. But this gave Margatras as well.
[46:57] Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the.
[46:59] Parent that I couldn't get. Away from, and I thought about
[47:01] immediately, is Werner Herzog and Klaus Kinski.
[47:05] Oh yeah, very nice. They had that tumultuous.
[47:08] Love, Hate Relationship, which bought the fruit of five films
[47:11] in one documentary. By then, Herzog Kinski was
[47:15] deranged and, as it turns out, a really despicable person.
[47:18] Yeah, but Herzog clearly saw something in his darkness that
[47:21] he liked. There's something Blue Velvet
[47:23] about their relationship. There is.
[47:24] Yeah. And.
[47:26] If you haven't. Seen Fitzcarraldo?
[47:28] Do yourself a favor. Yeah 2 right.
[47:31] What about? UST.
[47:32] Just 5. Just a 5, that's all.
[47:36] Just about trying. To be, I don't.
[47:37] Quite well Michael there yeah ones that were really obvious to
[47:43] me was good like Scorsese, De Niro that's that goes way, way
[47:46] back. Tarantino and Sam Jackson.
[47:49] I think he tries to get some Jackson and there as often as
[47:51] possible even if it's just a voice over.
[47:53] John Ford and John Wayne kind of stuck with me because I think
[47:56] they were just the same person basically.
[47:59] And when you exactly how to take Ford and vice versa.
[48:01] Hitchcock and James I'm Stuart Lovely resonated with.
[48:04] Me, especially Vertigo. I think that really shines, but
[48:07] the one most recently, it's totally flipped on its head a
[48:10] little bit, but it's unrecognized.
[48:12] One that you really look for it, I think is Nolan and Killian
[48:14] Murphy. I think their relationship is
[48:17] very so like Nolan sees a lot of himself and Killian Murphy put
[48:21] the put that role in there and just have them have him play
[48:24] that. So I think that for me is one
[48:25] that really sticks very good. Yeah, obviously.
[48:28] Five. I expected more Westy, but
[48:30] you've reined it in. Well done.
[48:33] Thank you. Thank you very much.
[48:35] I reined it in on a Lynch film. What am I doing?
[48:37] I'm doing this all backwards. It should have spiraled.
[48:40] Yeah, it should have, yeah. But thank you for the question.
[48:43] MB. Let us know what your best
[48:45] director and actor, all the Eagle parents are if you go.
[48:47] Yeah, we haven't. No, we haven't mentioned.
[48:49] Great question. Thank you.
[48:51] So Kyle McLaughlin, certainly. Was Lynch's muse Hard to believe
[48:54] that this was only his second feature and despite the chicken
[48:57] walk, he carries the film very well.
[48:59] Considering the larger than life performances around him.
[49:01] Yes. And he is the first.
[49:06] Larger than life performance that surrounds Kyle McLaughlin.
[49:09] It is Isabella Rossellini as Dorothy Valance.
[49:12] Normally. Now, I think this is an
[49:14] incredibly brave performance from Rossellini for a number of
[49:17] reasons. Yeah, firstly and simply, to
[49:20] literally and metaphorically strip yourself bare on the big
[49:23] screen takes a hell of a lot of guts.
[49:26] Yeah, Dorothy's not a heroic character.
[49:29] She suffers the indignity that Frank slams down on her.
[49:32] But because of that, this is an absolutely heroic performance
[49:35] from Rossellini. So because of.
[49:37] That it was important to Rossellini that her portrayal of
[49:39] Dorothy is that of a woman who has been abused and that the
[49:42] nudity wasn't exploitative, she said.
[49:45] You know the butcher shop where you see these carcasses of cows
[49:47] cut in the middle and open. You have these images of cows
[49:51] and flesh, and that's what I wanted to portray.
[49:53] Wow. Wow.
[49:54] That's. Really.
[49:55] In that yeah, I. Mean you can see that on.
[49:57] Screen it's it's UN flinching yeah she doesn't have the
[50:00] security of. It being like a true story or an
[50:02] Oscar turn or this has happened for a reason.
[50:04] It's like people might get this, they might not, but you've have
[50:07] to do it anyway. Yeah, you have to do it.
[50:09] Yeah, and I mean, she wasn't an actress.
[50:11] She appeared in a few films, but she was primarily a model and as
[50:14] such, just signed a contract with a modelling agency, a
[50:18] contract which was soon rescinded once they saw her in
[50:21] Blue Velvet. And they asked her to leave,
[50:23] Right? Wow.
[50:24] And they? Were the only.
[50:25] Ones. Aghasted Blue Velvet, The nuns
[50:27] who taught Rossellini at school, contacted her and told her that
[50:30] they were praying for her every day.
[50:33] What are nuns? Do you?
[50:34] Watching Blue. Velvet.
[50:37] And coming from a background in. Modeling.
[50:39] I think it's so brave of her to take this role, to put herself
[50:42] out there like this. Can you see anyone else from
[50:44] that background putting themselves in this incredibly
[50:46] vulnerable position, putting everything that worked for on
[50:49] the line? Cindy Crawford.
[50:51] Started in fair. Game, for goodness sake, we
[50:54] needed Blue Velvet I. Mean Dorothy's a Really.
[50:58] Complex character, really disturbing.
[51:00] She's desperate, she's living on the edge of reality, and I
[51:03] suppose she'd do anything to get her family back together.
[51:05] Anything including degrading herself at the behest of Frank
[51:08] Booth. But really weird, really
[51:12] complex. In doing this, Frank's
[51:14] potentially tapped into kind of like a masochistic side of
[51:16] Dorothy, one that responds with pleasure at the horrendous,
[51:20] sadist sexual deviances of Booth.
[51:24] It's. Cruel misogynist.
[51:25] Film with characters that don't have a place in mainstream
[51:27] cinema, but it's really compelling.
[51:29] And that's because of the believability that Russellini
[51:32] brings to the role. Yeah, and the scene.
[51:34] That I love. Is the scene of the star where
[51:36] she finds Jeffrey in a closet? Yeah.
[51:40] One that absolutely terrifies me.
[51:42] It's one of the most nightmarish things ever to happen because if
[51:45] you if somebody's hiding in your closet.
[51:47] I mean, it's classic horror trope, isn't it?
[51:49] Yeah, it is. Yeah.
[51:50] And she tackles it. With an almost deranged
[51:52] aggression, the way she's screaming at him with that wide
[51:55] eyed anger. What are you doing in my
[51:57] apartment, Jeffrey Beaumont? It's incredible stuff, this
[52:00] excitement as well there. Wasn't there's a little bit,
[52:02] yeah. So for the role of Dorothy
[52:04] Lynch. Wanted Debbie Harry for the
[52:05] role. She turned it down because of a
[52:07] part in Cronenberg's video drone, a film with a similar
[52:10] unsettling underbelly as Blue Velvet.
[52:12] She didn't want to be typecast. And then it's kind of weirdo
[52:14] apart. Don't vote for Cronenberg at
[52:16] Lynch then. Yeah.
[52:17] Yeah, exactly. Don't.
[52:20] Work for David Cronenberg. Whatever you do, just keep me.
[52:23] Stay away from the. Davids Ellen Mirren was second
[52:27] choice and. She actually played an active
[52:28] role in pre production working with Lynch to flesh out the
[52:31] character of Dorothy. Right?
[52:32] Yeah, the. Cook, the thief, the wife and
[52:34] the lover, that type of performance.
[52:36] I think for Mirren very similar but she did back out.
[52:39] And then after considering others for the part, including
[52:41] Sigourney Weaver, Jodie Foster, Sissy Spacek and Angelica
[52:45] Houston, he eventually cast Isabella Rossellini after they
[52:48] were introduced to each other by my mutual fence at a restaurant.
[52:51] He spoke to her about the part, but at this point still had
[52:54] Helen Mirren in mind. And he also said to her that
[52:56] because of her looks, she could be the daughter of Ingrid
[52:58] Bergman, which, of course, she is.
[53:01] Yeah, yeah, Yeah, I think he was.
[53:02] Surprised you could. Be Ingrid Bergman.
[53:05] 'S daughter. Well, I actually am, yeah.
[53:09] That would explain it a. Remarkably brave.
[53:11] Performance from Rossellini Strip bare in more ways than one
[53:15] on screen. Incredible stuff.
[53:16] Yeah, yeah, fantastic. And finally, we have something.
[53:22] Quite incredible on our hands here, the ultra psycho
[53:25] performance from Dennis Hopper as the criminally deranged
[53:28] sexual fiend Frank Booth. And we have the very man to
[53:33] tackle that kind of character. Go for a Westie.
[53:36] Yeah, just before he arrives. I'll do it.
[53:41] So I mean. Most memorable performance?
[53:45] Many would say Easy Rider. I would argue that it was
[53:48] Apocalypse Now, because I think that's just a really original
[53:50] performance, but one that is quite forgettable.
[53:52] So for memorable, yeah, it has to be this one just sticks with
[53:56] you. It just sticks in your head.
[53:57] It's so powerful and it feels like he's just, like I said
[54:02] before, he's just absolutely has something to prove here.
[54:05] And I think this was the point where he'd done it all.
[54:08] He was surprised he was still alive and the roles he was
[54:11] getting were just a little bit. People are very wary of him.
[54:14] Like don't give it a hop, I thought.
[54:15] And I think this is this is like just totally embracing the beast
[54:20] going, this is who people think I am.
[54:21] This is I'm going to show people who they're scared of.
[54:23] I'm going to show people what I can do.
[54:25] And he absolutely just lets it go.
[54:28] He's despicable in every sense of the word, but very enigmatic,
[54:32] very electric. He has this real energy.
[54:35] He has this real presence. He just owns the screen, He owns
[54:38] the room. When he's on a wide shot, it's
[54:39] just feels like he's just pulling the camera wherever he
[54:41] moves. It doesn't feel like anyone can
[54:44] hold a torch to him. When the rhythm in a dialogue
[54:47] sequence. He's got control over every
[54:49] single person in that. Really tell somebody to do
[54:51] something and do it. You know how Lynch is fearless
[54:53] in his ideas of this. Copper is fearless in his
[54:56] execution of this. Without doubt.
[54:58] Absolutely amazing. I mean that last scene, I just,
[55:02] it has me in stitches. I don't know we'll talk about
[55:04] it. But when he's like, I can still
[55:06] hear your radio, you fuck. And he's just like he's.
[55:12] Just like yeah, you. Shit head.
[55:13] He's like taking all the mask on.
[55:14] It's it feels like he's just rehearsing for a scene and
[55:17] doesn't quite know where the camera is and he doesn't care
[55:20] when he's screaming Don't look at me.
[55:22] You completely believe that you shouldn't be looking at him.
[55:25] And he's just in his own private world.
[55:28] And it pulls you in to something that you don't want to be pulled
[55:31] into. But it's the curiosity that
[55:33] Jeffrey has. It's the curiosity that we have.
[55:35] Like, what is this guy going to? We've seen what he's capable of
[55:38] doing, but what else is he going to do?
[55:41] I've got to keep watching because watching it's.
[55:44] Yeah, it's watching a car speed across the road, and it's
[55:47] swerving left and right. You know, it's a car crash, but
[55:49] you can't take your eyes off it. And that's Dennis Hopper on this
[55:51] phone. He's incredible.
[55:53] He's. He's a force of nature.
[55:56] I think he is one of the scariest movie characters ever.
[55:59] But yeah, if you watch it as many times as we have for this
[56:03] episode, he becomes humorous. It becomes humorous because he's
[56:07] so at the top, I don't think. Anybody else could have.
[56:10] Done the popper. He was incredible.
[56:12] Definitely not. But there were a few people in
[56:14] the frame for. The role of Frank Booth,
[56:15] including William Defoe, who I think would have been good,
[56:19] could say that. Harry Dean Stanton.
[56:21] Stephen Berkoff and Robert Loggia.
[56:26] Michael Einside claimed that. Frank was written specifically
[56:29] with him in mind right? All of those guys name turned it
[56:32] down because it was too unsavory, which I'm amazed that
[56:36] I inside said that Yeah exactly. But the.
[56:39] Unsavory nature of the. Character that didn't put off a
[56:41] newly sober Hopper who begged Lynch for the parts in You have
[56:45] to let me pay Frank because I am Frank.
[56:48] Yeah, yes, he is. Yeah.
[56:50] And in the original screenplay, Frank's tank that he carries
[56:53] around was filled with helium, but Hopper obviously knew a
[56:57] thing or two about drug use and suggested nitrate instead.
[57:01] Now that's something used to treat angina normally, but when
[57:04] used recreationally, it has a psychoactive effect, which
[57:07] obviously Hopper knew about. So they did actually try the
[57:10] helium on set, but Hopper said he sounded like Donald Duck and
[57:13] Lint switched out the helium because he wanted to avoid any
[57:16] unintended hilarity in Frank's voice.
[57:18] That would have been ridiculous, Danny.
[57:19] What's the fuck? Yeah, Frank the tank.
[57:25] Yeah, I would have loved that to be.
[57:26] Written on in Sharpie. Just like Frank's tank written
[57:28] on the actual tag would be. Yeah, I do find it very.
[57:33] Humorous that there are 56 instances of the F word in the
[57:37] film. Yes, and.
[57:39] Frank says 55. Of them all right.
[57:47] Amazing. And the only other one.
[57:48] Is because Frank says it, isn't it because it's Ben says well,
[57:51] drink your fuck. Yes, that's right.
[57:54] Makes him say. It's almost like an echo.
[57:56] So he does, he says. All of them to your health.
[57:59] No. To your fuck doesn't make sense.
[58:02] Yeah, it's wonderful though, isn't it, on?
[58:06] Hopper, Carl McLaughlin. Said no one really knew what
[58:08] Dennis was going to be like when we met him, Rossellini said.
[58:11] Dennis Hopper, Yes. He'd been in rehab for three
[58:13] years. David Lynch described him as a
[58:15] ticking time bomb. You can feel that.
[58:18] Yeah. Oh God, yeah, Definitely.
[58:19] Will he get through the shoot? Who knows?
[58:21] Who knows? Well, to wrap us up on the.
[58:24] Cast and on Frank Booth, we've got our final Patreon question
[58:27] from Heath Hobbs. How you doing, Heath?
[58:30] Hello, Heath. Hello.
[58:31] Heath, Heath. Asks if frank.
[58:33] Booth hosted a dinner party. What gift would you bring?
[58:36] I wouldn't go. And what?
[58:38] Do you think would be on the menu?
[58:41] Right. So.
[58:43] I mean, there's such a very strange question.
[58:45] I loved it. As soon as I saw it, I thought,
[58:47] well, I'm choosing that one. It's great.
[58:48] Yeah. Yeah, it is great.
[58:50] Yeah, yeah. So I'd bring a case.
[58:52] Of Pabst Blue Ribbon, his beer of choice, but I'd house it in a
[58:56] Heineken box, just to stir the pot a little bit.
[58:58] Just to get Heineken. Feel like dancing with the
[59:02] death? Do you?
[59:04] Where's? My Pabst Blue.
[59:05] Ribbon furious with you warm as well.
[59:11] Makes me fucking puke. I make sure that.
[59:15] I'm as far away from him as possible on that dinner table.
[59:18] I don't want him getting the ammonitrate out.
[59:22] When you hear that fuck on the menu.
[59:29] I think it's something as white picket fenced as the town of
[59:31] Lumberton itself. So I think meatloaf.
[59:34] And because he's a creation of David Lynch and it'd have to be
[59:36] cherry pie for dessert. Lovely.
[59:39] What about? UST.
[59:40] Me, I've also gone for. Perhaps blue ribbon.
[59:42] So there'll be two, two cases, but I'll bring some bourbon and
[59:46] some extra ammo nitrate just in case he runs out because that'll
[59:49] be funny if we do play charades or something.
[59:51] Just want him on that. That'll be really hilarious.
[59:54] Have some more nitrate, man. We're going to do like 3 words,
[59:57] first word, right? OK, that'll be wonderful.
[59:59] And food wise, I think Frank would go for something very
[1:00:02] American, but very, very much down the line.
[1:00:05] T-bone steak, French fries, nice tomato ketchup smashing.
[1:00:09] Spot on. Yeah.
[1:00:10] I. Love it.
[1:00:11] What about? You, Matt.
[1:00:12] We've got a kind of similar thing going on, me and Westie.
[1:00:14] What about you? Yeah, I mean, I think Frank.
[1:00:16] Just needs to chill a little bit in general really, doesn't he?
[1:00:19] Good luck with that. Well, you bring up a fucking.
[1:00:22] Lasagna or something? One thing I'm bringing a load
[1:00:24] of. Xanax.
[1:00:25] Just a lot of tranquilizers. I'm going to listen.
[1:00:28] Frank, I think you just need. To chill out a little bit, just
[1:00:30] chill out, man, Frank. Maybe one of those, you know
[1:00:33] those squeezy stress balls you can get?
[1:00:35] I'll give one of those. Just try that, maybe buka Sudoku
[1:00:39] puzzles, something to take his mind off everything for a while.
[1:00:42] And then As for what he would serve, yes, I think we all know
[1:00:48] what Bee was on the menu. I think if he's serving a
[1:00:51] starter, he looks like the kind of man who would just demolish a
[1:00:54] plate of chicken wings with his bare hands.
[1:00:56] Yeah, just loads of BBQ sauce all over the place.
[1:00:59] I don't think that's a starter. There's no Imagine them on hot
[1:01:01] ones. That'll be.
[1:01:02] So funny. Oh, exactly.
[1:01:03] Yeah. That's it, you fuck.
[1:01:08] It's not urban soup here. Smashing.
[1:01:11] Smashing. The table up just eating the
[1:01:14] table. It's not even hot, man.
[1:01:25] Where's my milk? Shithead.
[1:01:32] Good Frank Booth and Hot ones. Oh, good.
[1:01:35] Make it up. Yeah, it's.
[1:01:36] Made for. Anything it's made for.
[1:01:39] Definitely is. Sorry man.
[1:01:42] It's. Good, though.
[1:01:44] It's actually Frank Good. Main cause to sticking on the
[1:01:47] meat theme, it's definitely going to be steak.
[1:01:49] It's definitely going to be rare.
[1:01:50] And again, he's Aziz now with his hands tearing inward.
[1:01:52] And then dessert, I think a flame and Baked Alaska.
[1:01:55] He just sticks his face right in it and it's still a light.
[1:02:01] It's me when I'd like the lipstick all over his face.
[1:02:03] Oh, fantastic. Well.
[1:02:05] Thank you very much for the question, Heath.
[1:02:06] More of those, please. Love that.
[1:02:08] Yes, more like this. That was great.
[1:02:10] And that thankfully brings. Us to a close on the madman that
[1:02:13] is Frank Booth, who rounds up an incredibly eclectic cast, all
[1:02:16] bringing something unique to the blue velvet table.
[1:02:20] Very well, that's funny. All the right movies, we'll be
[1:02:28] right. Back thank you for supporting us
[1:02:30] by listening to the sponsors for this episode.
[1:02:34] Thanks for listening to our sponsors.
[1:02:36] And now it's back to the show. The middle after Jeffrey's
[1:02:45] nightmarish. Walk on the wild side he meets
[1:02:47] up with Sandy where he's got a hell of a lot to talk about it's
[1:02:52] a strange world, Matt Yeah, this scene rather have the.
[1:02:54] Conversation in the car and she talks about her dream.
[1:02:58] I mean, this is when Laura Dern really shines me.
[1:03:01] She's particularly brilliant here.
[1:03:03] And it sums up one of the battles in the film, which is
[1:03:06] the battle between innocence and corruption, good and evil.
[1:03:09] And obviously, Sandy is everything innocent, everything
[1:03:12] good in the world. The fact that they've pulled up
[1:03:14] outside of church to talk. So the music from the church
[1:03:18] provides the soundtrack for this.
[1:03:20] I mean, so much of this is on the nose, but it works so well
[1:03:23] at the same time. It does.
[1:03:25] And I think this scene, despite the fact Jeffrey is about 2223
[1:03:28] in the film, I say there's this weird thing where he feels much
[1:03:32] younger. It's like he is still a kid.
[1:03:33] And this scene really emphasizes that.
[1:03:35] I mean, it's such a naive thing for him to do, to go off
[1:03:38] investigating on his own, and now he's seen something of the
[1:03:41] adult world that he really wishes he hadn't.
[1:03:43] But that's the thing. Once you've seen the reality of
[1:03:46] the darkness that comes with grown up, you can't go back.
[1:03:49] You know, as he says, why are the people like Frank?
[1:03:51] Why is there so much trouble in the world?
[1:03:54] Again, that sounds like something a kid would ask, not a
[1:03:56] 22 year old man. It's really childlike, isn't it?
[1:03:59] It's really childlike. And the horrible thing is
[1:04:01] there's no answer to those questions.
[1:04:03] But then again, this is David Lynch, And provide no answers is
[1:04:06] exactly what he does and where this film derives a lot of its
[1:04:10] power from. So all Sandy can do is tell him
[1:04:13] about a dream. It's the only thing she can
[1:04:14] think that might comfort him in this situation because it's what
[1:04:17] she's holding on to because she is still this innocent in this
[1:04:20] world. She said outside the apartment,
[1:04:21] she hasn't seen what Jeffrey has.
[1:04:23] And this dream is such a dream of an innocent young girl, a
[1:04:27] vision of Robbins bringing love against the dark, which we'll
[1:04:30] talk about at the end of film. When it comes in the real there,
[1:04:33] it should shouldn't work this saying, this dialogue shouldn't
[1:04:35] work. It should be so cheesy.
[1:04:37] It should be so on the nose. When the music sauce up at the
[1:04:39] end, the description should be so OTT.
[1:04:42] But it works because Dern delivers it with such sincerity.
[1:04:46] You know there was trouble until the Robins come.
[1:04:49] And somehow it, I mean, the whole film is a balanced act.
[1:04:52] Let's just balance and taunts and performances and dialogue
[1:04:56] and attitudes. And the same works when reality
[1:04:59] dreams. And reality light.
[1:05:00] The Dark This same works when it really, really shouldn't.
[1:05:04] It's classic. Like David Lynch dreamscape with
[1:05:08] that lumen music over the top of it.
[1:05:10] Yeah, yeah. So going on from that.
[1:05:13] Scene. I mean, he's.
[1:05:13] Not known for subtlety. His David Lynch, let's be
[1:05:15] honest, comes down like a sledgehammer with most things.
[1:05:18] But this is great. When Jeffrey goes back to
[1:05:20] Dorothy's, the curiosity's got a hold of him again.
[1:05:23] It's again, we spoke about being childlike and innocent, and now
[1:05:26] he's childlike and curious and he's going to get himself into
[1:05:29] trouble. There's no repercussions for
[1:05:30] him. He doesn't know what the
[1:05:32] consequences mean yet, almost. And it's him kind of finding
[1:05:35] that out. Her reaction, you know, just so
[1:05:37] happy to see him. I looked in the closet for you
[1:05:39] know what you mental crazy just. Sitting staring at the closet.
[1:05:44] All night until he turns up at the door.
[1:05:46] It's absolutely crazy. And then we get to go to Slow
[1:05:50] Club and it's wonderful in there.
[1:05:53] This is, to me, this is where the whole film shifts and starts
[1:05:57] sliding downhill into the darkness, into the shadow, into
[1:06:00] the grime, into the grit of it. It's miles apart from when I
[1:06:03] spoke about the police station at the start, to be an old
[1:06:05] police squad and cartoon mission, brightly lit and that
[1:06:09] it's both blocked and very solid.
[1:06:11] This feels very loose and it feels like we're in some kind of
[1:06:14] nightmare, like a lucid dream, like we're slipping deeper into
[1:06:17] it, into the subconscious of David Lynch.
[1:06:18] And you got Frank Days drenched in the blue light, and you've
[1:06:21] got Jeffrey just sitting in the red light and the car and
[1:06:25] everything's just so obviously smacking in the face.
[1:06:28] Just these two different worlds that actually work together,
[1:06:31] blue and red. It's all just this emergency
[1:06:33] kind of light. We got close-ups of sirens later
[1:06:36] on. So it's all there as part of
[1:06:37] like a big warning for him. Great shot when all the guys
[1:06:41] come out of the slow club and it kind of just tracks them over
[1:06:43] the car park. I think that was fantastic.
[1:06:44] It really reminds me of Reservoir Dogs.
[1:06:46] Just a little wide shot, though. It's just like the alternative
[1:06:49] angle of that thing. Tarantino watches my I'm just
[1:06:51] going to move the camera to the front, but it's it's it's a
[1:06:54] similar kind of vibe to that. And when they actually get to
[1:06:56] the building, I love the silhouettes that are painted on
[1:06:59] there from the towers and the smoke and machinery and it's all
[1:07:02] just moving as if it's like a monster and it's just a
[1:07:05] mechanical monster and there's something going on inside of it.
[1:07:08] It's like a hive industry of nasty, shadowy industry that's
[1:07:11] awful, really creepy. And this is where we start
[1:07:14] getting a lot more shadows. This wasn't many shadows and
[1:07:18] open to this point. And everything starts getting
[1:07:20] drenched in. The contrast goes up and the
[1:07:22] blacks are really black. And you start having this
[1:07:24] mystery as he gets deeper into it.
[1:07:26] And I think the visuals here are really important, and I think
[1:07:29] that's what Lynch does as well. There's not as much dialogue in
[1:07:31] these sequences in the middle of the film, and I think it works
[1:07:34] really well with the ominous shift of colour.
[1:07:36] Torn, it shifts with his curiosity, but also this
[1:07:39] darkness of this machine that he's getting involved in.
[1:07:41] I think it's really well put forward.
[1:07:43] And to me, it's just a really exciting part of the film where
[1:07:46] you just, you need to find out more as Jeffrey needs to find
[1:07:48] out more. Yeah, it's absolutely.
[1:07:50] Incredible, great visuals. That's wonderful, yeah.
[1:07:53] And I'm picking up the action where.
[1:07:54] Sandy and Jeffrey have their debrief at Arlene's Diner.
[1:07:59] What I like about this is the detective story element of the
[1:08:02] film. Like I mentioned the noir
[1:08:03] elements, it plunges you deeper into the mystery where we don't
[1:08:07] know what the hell is going on, but we know that it isn't safe,
[1:08:11] Jeffrey says. You see that clock on the wall 5
[1:08:13] minutes from now, you're not going to believe what I've told
[1:08:15] you. Brilliant line.
[1:08:16] That's a brilliant. Line.
[1:08:18] That's so theatrical, it is. And I love the visuals as
[1:08:22] Jeffrey. Is telling this story.
[1:08:24] There are visuals of him outside Frank's building that are a
[1:08:27] cross cut with this scene. I don't know how he's made that
[1:08:31] shoebox camera contraption thing.
[1:08:33] That's wonderful, isn't? It I think the pulley.
[1:08:36] System. Brings much more attention to
[1:08:38] him than if he just used a normal camera.
[1:08:40] Just a normal camera, yeah. I've yet to.
[1:08:42] Try that out. I'll let you know how it goes,
[1:08:44] but it is very. Cinematic.
[1:08:46] Yeah, and it just throws up so many questions.
[1:08:48] Who is this well dressed man? Who is the yellow man?
[1:08:51] Where is Frank disappeared to? What's going on in that
[1:08:54] building, that hive of industry, like you said, that nastiness?
[1:08:57] Yeah, and the beauty. Of all of these.
[1:08:59] Questions Is that really none of it matters.
[1:09:02] The investigation is kind of the Mcguffin.
[1:09:05] It is overtaken by all the other sort of details in the plot
[1:09:07] later. Yeah, it's all abstractions
[1:09:09] like. He always points to it doesn't
[1:09:11] matter what Frank's doing. We know what kind of a person he
[1:09:13] is exactly. Doesn't matter the type of
[1:09:15] person he is, he's not what? He's doing.
[1:09:17] Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
[1:09:19] But it's so engaging. I think everybody loves a good
[1:09:21] detective story, but this one is done in a very lynching way,
[1:09:24] mixing the traditional with the esoteric.
[1:09:27] Yeah, so it lynched as Chinatown.
[1:09:29] Isn't it yes in? This scene, Jeffrey says I'm in
[1:09:33] the middle of a mystery that couldn't be more literal as
[1:09:36] we're just past the hour mark of a film that runs for two hours,
[1:09:40] which is clearly Lynch winking at the camera.
[1:09:42] Classic Lynch. Yeah.
[1:09:44] So. The mystery is beginning to.
[1:09:45] Unravel. We still don't know what the
[1:09:47] hell is going on, Really. Now will we find out?
[1:09:50] Does it matter? Jeffrey can't keep himself away.
[1:09:55] From danger and is straight back to the northeast apartment where
[1:09:58] he takes a deeper plunge Into Darkness and he starts a
[1:10:02] horrific series of events Yep, as soon.
[1:10:06] As this scene. Opens in Dorothy's apartment.
[1:10:08] I always let out this. I hope did it the last time I
[1:10:10] watched this. Groan of despair.
[1:10:12] Like Oh no, because there's just about to be some misery in
[1:10:15] there. Yeah.
[1:10:16] Oh God. This is where Jeffrey.
[1:10:18] And Dorothy have sex for the first time.
[1:10:21] They do the wild thing. Dorothy couldn't be any more
[1:10:24] clear that this is a place where bad things happen.
[1:10:26] She asks if he's a bad boy. Do you want bad things?
[1:10:29] She's wearing a red dress, Alarm bells going off everywhere.
[1:10:33] But this doesn't stop Jeffrey, who resists the first.
[1:10:35] He doesn't want to hit Dorothy, obviously.
[1:10:38] His urge is a just a little too great to suppress.
[1:10:41] The candlelight blows out heavy-handed from Lynch in the
[1:10:44] visuals, and Jeffrey has crossed over into the dark recesses of
[1:10:48] his psyche. He's now pursuing all the sexual
[1:10:51] desires he's been trying to keep it Be dear me Yeah.
[1:10:55] Lot to unpick, yeah? The lot to.
[1:10:57] Unpick. Does Dorothy crave the sexual
[1:11:00] violence because it's a link to her family?
[1:11:02] Has Frank tapped into her depraved sexual desires?
[1:11:05] Is this the only way that she's able to survive her life
[1:11:08] day-to-day? A lot of questions, no answers.
[1:11:12] And there's something animalistic at the end of this
[1:11:14] scene. Lynch moves to a slow mower, and
[1:11:16] the sound design is that of kind of like a lion's roar, almost,
[1:11:20] with an unearthly shriek. And now there's no Turner back.
[1:11:24] Dorothy confirms that when she says to you, you have your
[1:11:27] disease in me now, which is not a pleasant term to hear.
[1:11:31] It's not great pillow talk. It isn't.
[1:11:33] Sexy. That's not sexy.
[1:11:36] In the aftermath, when Dorothy. Is protesting that she's not
[1:11:39] crazy like when they're in the living room.
[1:11:41] She then follows that up with I still have you inside me,
[1:11:45] Jeffrey. Get out of this situation.
[1:11:46] Get out of it. Yeah, that's enough.
[1:11:48] We're nowhere on a knife edge from.
[1:11:49] Scene to scene in this film and when he leaves and Frank turns
[1:11:53] up terrifying, wonderful. Yeah, there's.
[1:11:56] Something magnetic. About Frank, do you want to go
[1:11:58] for a ride? No, thanks.
[1:12:00] No thanks. What does that mean?
[1:12:01] I don't want to go. Go where?
[1:12:03] For a ride. A ride?
[1:12:06] Hell, that's a good idea. Yeah.
[1:12:08] Yeah. Brilliant.
[1:12:10] What does that mean? Yeah.
[1:12:13] You go for a joyride. With very little joy in it.
[1:12:17] There's no joy. During the scenes where Kyle and
[1:12:19] Isabella. Are naked, they questioned
[1:12:20] Lynch. Do I have to go that far?
[1:12:22] And his reply was yes, yes. Further, if possible.
[1:12:29] Slowly no. Wesley mentioned police squad.
[1:12:33] Earlier and the next scene starts with a joke that could
[1:12:36] almost come from that when Frank goes this is it and then it cuts
[1:12:40] the place which is called This is it.
[1:12:44] It is that could be from. The.
[1:12:46] Naked Gun, it's great, but then. That's the.
[1:12:49] Only bit of light relief you get from this scene because one of
[1:12:52] the overall feelings I have with Blue Velvet and why it's so
[1:12:55] disturbing when it's not actually that graphic is it
[1:12:57] nails that feeling of someone being in a situation or
[1:13:01] replaced. This shouldn't be, but they
[1:13:03] can't escape from it. It's that helplessness, isn't
[1:13:06] it? It's the helplessness.
[1:13:07] Don't want to be there? You don't want to be there, you
[1:13:09] don't be in. Dorothy's apartment, but this
[1:13:11] entire section with Ben, and I mean, it's so weird because
[1:13:16] actually very little happens in it, but all the same, my skin
[1:13:19] crawls out the whole thing because it's the implicit threat
[1:13:23] under the surface of what darkness is going to happen in
[1:13:27] this scene. And you look at Ben and I've
[1:13:29] already said, you know, the film.
[1:13:30] I can't decide when it's set. I mean, what era has been fallen
[1:13:33] out of without loungewear and cigarette holder?
[1:13:36] Like he certainly doesn't belong in the AD certainly doesn't seem
[1:13:38] like he comes from the 50s even. No, no.
[1:13:41] And it's just. Question.
[1:13:42] After question like who is he exactly?
[1:13:44] What's the deal with all the overweight ladies hanging around
[1:13:47] with them? Who's the guy?
[1:13:48] Eating the big bowl of. I think it's pasta.
[1:13:51] These are the people keeping. Hold of.
[1:13:53] Dorothy's son. Why?
[1:13:54] And it's a scene that just exemplifies to me the dream
[1:13:57] logic I've been talking about, because nothing makes sense
[1:13:59] about this. But at the same time, it's got
[1:14:02] its root in some kind of reality.
[1:14:04] You know the fact that the set design is so symmetrical, but
[1:14:07] it's slightly off at the same time because of the lighting
[1:14:10] that comes in the lamps and the. Implicit threat that runs.
[1:14:15] Throughout this, the tors that they make the way that
[1:14:17] everything bends says to Frank has done with such lightness is
[1:14:20] if he knows how explosive Frank can be, but he also knows how to
[1:14:23] keep him under control by amusing him, taught him like
[1:14:25] he's a child. We'll have a beer with Frank the
[1:14:28] glasses. And because Dorothy and Jeffrey
[1:14:31] is so out of place and they're outnumbered, the whole scene
[1:14:34] just has this queasy feeling, and it just sits in my stomach
[1:14:37] throughout. And it's just summed up in that
[1:14:40] incredible moment where Ben uses that lamp light to mind to end
[1:14:43] dreams. Yeah.
[1:14:45] Why is this? Scene SO.
[1:14:46] Disturbing. Why is it even in there?
[1:14:49] Why is it in it? Why does that?
[1:14:50] That's why. Well, I know, but yeah, exactly,
[1:14:53] we don't. Have the answers, and we
[1:14:54] probably shouldn't mean. Why does the song have that
[1:14:56] impact on Frank? Did they do this on a regular
[1:14:58] basis or whenever it comes around?
[1:14:59] Because they've got a routine. Going, isn't it?
[1:15:01] Yeah, but this is what we've. Seen under the grass at the
[1:15:04] start of the film. Yeah.
[1:15:05] Oh yeah, of course. Oh.
[1:15:06] Yeah, definitely this. You know the.
[1:15:07] Surface are being pulled back now.
[1:15:08] I mean, Fred Derife just dancing with a snake in the background.
[1:15:11] Where do you get that from? You know, it's it's so.
[1:15:13] It's just so. Weird.
[1:15:15] Classic nightmare logic. It is.
[1:15:17] It's absolute nightmare. Logic I'm in this scene.
[1:15:19] It upsets me and it deserves me on a level where I've never been
[1:15:23] able to quite work out why. This is the scene in the film
[1:15:26] that most feels like a nightmare to me.
[1:15:28] Like it's brilliant, but I just want to wake up and I just
[1:15:31] wanted around one of the most peculiar scenes I've.
[1:15:34] I've ever seen. I was just captivated when I
[1:15:36] first saw it, yeah, but I didn't understand why.
[1:15:38] I still probably still don't, but there's something like
[1:15:41] primally seductive about the whole thing.
[1:15:44] I don't, I don't know why I'm attracted to this exactly.
[1:15:46] I don't know either. But yeah, it's true.
[1:15:48] Weird. Lynch didn't go directly.
[1:15:51] To Roy Orbison for permission to use In Dreams.
[1:15:54] Instead, he obtained license for the song by other means.
[1:15:56] She went to the record company. So you can imagine Orbison
[1:15:59] surprise when he sat down in a Malibu movie theatre to watch
[1:16:03] this new David Lynch Blue Velvet film.
[1:16:05] Yeah, let's watch it. And on comes one of the most
[1:16:08] revered songs in his back catalog, he said.
[1:16:11] I was mortified because they were talking about the candy
[1:16:14] colored clown in relation to a dope deal.
[1:16:16] I thought, what in the world? What?
[1:16:20] A gentleman he is. Yeah, the Big O.
[1:16:22] The big love him. Orbison later said that he
[1:16:25] watched the. Film again and appreciated what
[1:16:27] the song gave to the film and vice versa.
[1:16:29] The use of the song in the film is attributed to a resurgence in
[1:16:31] Orbison's popularity, leading to a successful greatest hits
[1:16:34] package and him joining supergroup at the Travelling
[1:16:37] Wilburys. Strangely, this made his.
[1:16:39] Popularity saw, which is unbelievable considering this
[1:16:43] Roy Orbison. It's just a new demographic.
[1:16:46] For the David Lynch mob. Well, this scene is what?
[1:16:54] Lynch called the eye of the duck scene, IE the most important
[1:16:58] part of the film. Lynch said the key to the whole
[1:17:00] duck is the eye and where it is placed.
[1:17:02] It's like a little jewel. If it's there, it's absolutely
[1:17:05] beautiful. What do you mean, David?
[1:17:07] I don't know what you mean the fact.
[1:17:08] That the club is called. This is it, I guess, is the
[1:17:10] cherry on that kind of obvious cake.
[1:17:13] This is the eye of the duck. Yeah, the light that.
[1:17:16] Stockwell uses as. A mic was not planned.
[1:17:18] During rehearsals, he picked up this construction work light and
[1:17:21] used it as a stand in mic. Lynch loved it so much that he
[1:17:25] kept the light and stopped, well, mime and the song when he
[1:17:27] originally was meant to sing it. Right, right, well.
[1:17:30] It's much better that way. It really.
[1:17:31] Does it's much? More sinister that way.
[1:17:34] It is so sinister. And I don't know why.
[1:17:37] No, on the way out. Of.
[1:17:39] This is it, yeah. It's one of the me favorite
[1:17:41] transitions in cinema history. I think I'll fuck anything that
[1:17:45] moves, man Bang. He just disappears from the
[1:17:48] frame. It's incredibly creepy and
[1:17:52] really powerful and just put straight into the car and you're
[1:17:56] like what what is going on? Like the the furious nature of
[1:18:00] that disappearance of that cut is so lynching.
[1:18:02] And then we're going to the car and then we'll see you know, the
[1:18:05] road and I'm thinking this is lost highway.
[1:18:07] This is must be where he gets the idea of lost highway from
[1:18:09] this this iconography of just this travelling to nothing to
[1:18:12] darkness. That's where Jeffrey is.
[1:18:14] He's in this hell in that this chariot, the hell with these
[1:18:18] horrible people. And nobody respects his privacy.
[1:18:20] No one respects his place. And he's just being exploited as
[1:18:23] a human being. The pullover and nothing.
[1:18:26] And then Frank just you hear the gas and then oh, God, there's
[1:18:29] just that incredible shot of the like, you know, yeah, you've got
[1:18:33] Dorothy in the front, you've got Frank in the front, you've got
[1:18:34] the other guy behind that shot. And it just turns around.
[1:18:37] You've just that Freeman of that is just so imposing on the
[1:18:39] viewer because you feel like you're in the back seat with
[1:18:41] them and it's like, and then there's the lever alone and he
[1:18:44] starts on and it's just that's really weird.
[1:18:46] But watch the guy behind Isabella Rossellini just doesn't
[1:18:48] know what to do even he's like, am I in the scene?
[1:18:52] I'm on the shot? What?
[1:18:54] Am I doing? He looks terrified.
[1:18:56] There's no ad Lib and whatsoever here because Hopper is just
[1:18:58] gone. Yes, he's just doing his thing.
[1:19:01] He snaps at this point. This is what he didn't do the
[1:19:03] first time he saw Frank act against Dorothy because he has
[1:19:06] more feelings for an hour. He has more understanding of who
[1:19:08] this is and he's going to stand up to this evil and he just gets
[1:19:11] punished for it. I love that fist just coming in.
[1:19:13] Brilliant shot where he punches and that's just wonderfully.
[1:19:16] Don't put Frank the way he snaps.
[1:19:18] You get him out the car, get him out the car, fuck, get him out
[1:19:21] the car. And it's just like curious about
[1:19:23] what's happened to him. He's like he's been touched,
[1:19:25] he's been violated and then he chooses to violate Geoffrey and
[1:19:29] just you're going to invade Myspace, I'm going to invade
[1:19:31] yours. And he's just all pretty pretty
[1:19:33] and he's just moved their lipstick on and then kissing
[1:19:35] him. And it's just a complete
[1:19:36] invasion of that privacy. And that emotion is disgusting.
[1:19:40] So you've got people in these crew, especially that woman
[1:19:42] who's gets on top of the car and starts to dance because she's
[1:19:45] really, she's just reassuring Frank that everyone's in on
[1:19:48] this. It's a good idea to feel this
[1:19:49] way. We are into the song.
[1:19:51] We are into the emotion. Dorothy isn't.
[1:19:53] She sat in the car to school. Leave him alone.
[1:19:55] What on earth is going on with Brad Durf?
[1:19:57] Again, amazed and casting when he's just stood with that knife
[1:20:01] against his throat. He is just completely committed
[1:20:03] to that, to that part of that role.
[1:20:05] You would think he is in that group.
[1:20:07] And it's just the way he's quoting the lyrics and his
[1:20:11] speech about a love letter is a bullet from a gun.
[1:20:14] And it goes into your heart and you got a love letter for me and
[1:20:16] you are done for. And that is it.
[1:20:18] And he's using love as a weapon. He's using emotion as a weapon.
[1:20:21] He's using happiness as a weapon.
[1:20:23] And this person just couldn't get any more despicable.
[1:20:26] And he does, and you're along for the ride 100%.
[1:20:29] And then he just starts going through and starts beating up
[1:20:31] Jeffrey and starts breaking them down.
[1:20:33] It's the worst possible behaviour towards another human
[1:20:36] being, how you can belittle them emotionally and then belittle
[1:20:40] them physically. And that's what he does all the
[1:20:42] way through this film to everybody, and especially a
[1:20:44] Jeffrey here. It's really tough to watch, but
[1:20:46] it completely reinforces Frank's character and makes you fucking
[1:20:49] terrified of him. That's one of the most
[1:20:51] terrifying. Scenes in any film, This,
[1:20:54] they've just this stretch. Dorothy and Jeffrey's psycho
[1:20:57] sex, this is it. And then this scene, the
[1:21:01] lipstick, the woman dancing on the hub of the car, it's like
[1:21:03] Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Yeah, it's the weirdest fucking
[1:21:09] scene. I think it's brilliant.
[1:21:14] It is so some of the. Most disturbing scenes of the
[1:21:16] decade of any decade in a stretch, which is strangely
[1:21:20] compelling. Yeah.
[1:21:21] Very compelling, yeah. The crew The crew on Blue Velvet
[1:21:30] brings. Some names to the podcast that
[1:21:32] we've never talked about in the past, and we're starting off
[1:21:34] with the singular vision that David Lynch brought Blue Velvet
[1:21:37] with his unique screenplay. Yeah.
[1:21:41] As it's written and directed. By David Lynch I think the lines
[1:21:44] are blurred between directing and writing, and sometimes it
[1:21:47] just feels like a sensation or an atmosphere that he's created
[1:21:51] with Blue Velvet. But the aspect of the right and
[1:21:54] that sticks out to me most is duality.
[1:21:56] It's a huge part of the narrative and of the characters
[1:21:59] as well, and I think that Lynch presents a kind of hyper reality
[1:22:02] at the start and the end of the films, complete with clunky
[1:22:05] dialogue and double entendre laced radio jingles.
[1:22:09] And then he flips. That right on its head.
[1:22:10] For the middle section, I think the genre bending nature of the
[1:22:13] film also fits into this duality.
[1:22:15] Is it a mystery? Is it a tongue in cheek drama?
[1:22:18] A coming of age film? A horror film?
[1:22:20] None of those, all of those. I like that Jeffrey has almost a
[1:22:24] dual personality, the kind of all shooks small town boy during
[1:22:29] the day and the disturbed sexual curious voyeur that prowl
[1:22:33] tonight, something that is reinforced by the two women in
[1:22:36] his life. Sandy during the day, Dorothy at
[1:22:38] night. He's at once repulsed by what he
[1:22:40] sees from Dorothy's closet, but also finds strangely illumorant
[1:22:43] and erotically charged. Just like we do, of course.
[1:22:50] He pretends to be somebody he's not.
[1:22:51] When he masquerades as the bug man, this is the bridge between
[1:22:54] his two personalities between the day and the night time.
[1:22:56] Darkness and light bugs in the film are representative of the
[1:22:59] darkness inheritance society in the fabric of everyone, even
[1:23:03] people as white picket fenced as Jeffrey and Sandy.
[1:23:06] And it goes into the dream that Sandy had that you mentioned
[1:23:09] earlier, Matt. And we can see this duality in
[1:23:12] the character Dorothy, who's forced into these horrific
[1:23:15] sexual situations with Frank but seems to get some sensual
[1:23:17] satisfaction from it. And she sees Jeffrey as someone
[1:23:20] who can help her get a son back, but also begs for him to display
[1:23:23] the same sordid behavior as Frank.
[1:23:25] It's so complex and compelling the way that these characters
[1:23:29] are written. And I do think it's interesting
[1:23:31] that Frank's Dorman is the night time.
[1:23:32] This is where he thrives. And generally the only time we
[1:23:36] see him during the day is when he's dressed as the well dressed
[1:23:39] man. Disguise.
[1:23:40] Yeah. Yeah, he's in disguise.
[1:23:42] Yeah. He also can't make his mind up
[1:23:44] whether he wants to be baby or daddy.
[1:23:47] No, the town. Of.
[1:23:48] Lumberton We discussed this. It's got this kind of Howdy
[1:23:51] Doody friendly exterior that he wants to portray, but there's
[1:23:54] something very evil looking just below the surface.
[1:23:56] I think Lynch makes the duality in the film a metaphor for the
[1:23:59] complexities of human emotions and impulses.
[1:24:02] And also towns and cities dotted all over the world.
[1:24:05] And, you know, I'm just scratching the surface here.
[1:24:07] It's outstandingly oblique writing from Lynch.
[1:24:10] It's something else, something that nobody would ever do.
[1:24:13] No, Wesley, what are your thoughts on the writing?
[1:24:15] It just has like you've said. Just this incredible sense of
[1:24:17] originality. And I think the dialogue as well
[1:24:20] reflects that because it's just so clunky and it's just so
[1:24:23] matter of fact at the start. And then you get these beautiful
[1:24:25] monologues, you know, from Sandy talking about a dream, how that
[1:24:28] evokes so many visions in your head.
[1:24:29] And then Frank's monologue that we've just spoke about, you
[1:24:32] know, love letters and how that's really important.
[1:24:34] But it's just the plotting of this as well.
[1:24:36] I think he plots it really well and it's really, really steadily
[1:24:40] done because there's always something happens that you don't
[1:24:42] quite expect. And I think he's got the plot
[1:24:44] down and that is licked and he knows exactly what he's doing
[1:24:47] with that. Like you said, he loves a
[1:24:48] concrete plot, which is what this is.
[1:24:50] It's very simple. It's a very small plot, but
[1:24:53] around that's what he builds on top of it.
[1:24:55] The foundations are there. And I think just reflect on what
[1:24:58] you've just said actually looked like.
[1:24:59] If someone else had directed this, what would that have
[1:25:02] looked like? Or if Lynch had directed
[1:25:05] something that was written by somebody else?
[1:25:07] But how much of it would he have laid on top of what's already
[1:25:10] there? You know what I mean?
[1:25:11] How how abstract would he have made Chinatown?
[1:25:14] How strange would he have made that?
[1:25:16] And what Lynch doesn't do is explain himself and never have
[1:25:19] and never will. And I think a lot of that's in
[1:25:21] the writing. And that's why, you know, Val
[1:25:23] Kilmer was put off by it. God knows what that draft was
[1:25:26] like. I think that's just him thinking
[1:25:28] down that line. And then he would actually
[1:25:30] wouldn't cross pollinate it and go down this line.
[1:25:32] And what about that? But I think a lot of this is
[1:25:34] down to Lynch kneeling down. A solid idea to get funding to
[1:25:39] then have fun with it on top of that to deal with the actors,
[1:25:43] actresses who are involved in every character that's in it.
[1:25:45] And then just say, why don't we try this to have Frank's
[1:25:48] character originally have helium to change that when Hopper
[1:25:52] suggested to change it shows me an incredible shift in that
[1:25:55] character that would have just been hilarious.
[1:25:58] It would have made no sense. High pitched sound like Donald
[1:26:00] the tried to do it. So how much of this was fleshed
[1:26:03] out on the page and how much of it was fleshed out as they were
[1:26:05] shooting? And I think it's down to David
[1:26:07] Lynch to say that this is written and directed by David
[1:26:10] Lynch as a package. It's kind of half written, half
[1:26:13] directed, smashed together. The writing is the direction,
[1:26:16] and the direction is the right because it's David Lynch, very
[1:26:19] similar, I. Think this is one of those cases
[1:26:21] where I can't really divide the direction and the right for the
[1:26:25] most part I. Think.
[1:26:26] The writing is part of the reason why the film fills you
[1:26:29] with so much anxiety, because it constantly sets up expectations
[1:26:33] of where film would normally go. Except it doesn't, and when it
[1:26:37] doesn't, it doesn't bother explaining why it hasn't done
[1:26:40] that either. So you know, why is Sandy sad so
[1:26:43] blouse about letting Jeffrey tag along on this police case?
[1:26:46] A murder case? Don't know, but it doesn't
[1:26:48] matter. Why is Jeffrey not more freaked
[1:26:50] out by the discovery of a 70? Don't know, Doesn't matter.
[1:26:54] It's a film of total contrast in the writing, not lying about
[1:26:57] Jeffrey. Is he a detective or pervert?
[1:27:00] He's both. It flips, contrasts all the
[1:27:04] time. It goes from lush romantic
[1:27:06] scenes of teenage love to dark sexual depravity.
[1:27:10] And it's just different sides of the same coin.
[1:27:12] Like, I always forget part of the ending of this film ends
[1:27:15] with a shootout between the police and Frank's gang.
[1:27:17] Yeah, but Lynch could not care less about that.
[1:27:21] No, because that's how any. And this was saying what would
[1:27:23] someone else do with this script?
[1:27:25] Anyone else would Ended with a big shootout.
[1:27:28] And it's so deliberately throw away by Lynch.
[1:27:30] He's going. There you go.
[1:27:32] That's the one bit you were expecting.
[1:27:33] And I've just had a really uneventful and it's it's the
[1:27:35] most boring part of the film. Yeah.
[1:27:37] See, you obviously can't separate.
[1:27:39] The right and. Direct and the pretty much one
[1:27:40] in the same. I think Blue Velvet just it
[1:27:43] filled us the way he views the world through this 50 style
[1:27:45] Americana, but it's still in the 80s.
[1:27:48] At the same time, in every aspect of the film, you just go,
[1:27:51] well, yeah, that's David Lynch and it's what he does.
[1:27:53] And the writing is no different. It's all about light and dark
[1:27:56] coexistent and it may not make sense.
[1:27:59] You just have to accept that unfortunately.
[1:28:01] Yeah, going to get no answers. No, Lynch's blue.
[1:28:04] Velvet screenplay had. Been passed around Hollywood and
[1:28:07] rejected by pretty much every major studio due to its
[1:28:10] disturbing nature and after he finished.
[1:28:14] The Elephant Man Lynch met up with producer Richard Roth, and
[1:28:17] he gave Roth an unfilmed script of his, which was called Ronnie
[1:28:20] Rocket. Roth read it, asked if he had
[1:28:23] anything else bubbling away, and then said, well, I told him I'd
[1:28:25] always wanted to sneak into a girl's room to watch it of the
[1:28:29] night, and that maybe at one point or another I would see
[1:28:31] something that would be the clue for a murder mystery.
[1:28:34] I've always wanted to sneak into a.
[1:28:35] Girl's room. I'm still there.
[1:28:36] Yeah, but do you have a? Script though, so I'm going to
[1:28:39] call the. Police if this goes.
[1:28:41] Any further? Yeah, write that down.
[1:28:43] Yeah. But oddly enough.
[1:28:46] Roth loved it and encouraged him to write a treatment.
[1:28:48] David Lynch went home and that's when he had the idea for the ear
[1:28:51] that came into his mind right then, he said.
[1:28:54] That he had three ideas. Which formed the basis of Blue
[1:28:57] Velvet, the Bobby Vinton song. He said the mood that came with
[1:29:00] that song. A mood a time and things that
[1:29:02] were of that time. He thought about being in a
[1:29:04] girl's closet at night, like Matt just said.
[1:29:06] And the third idea was the ear in the field.
[1:29:08] Because it would be like finding a ticket to another world.
[1:29:10] You know, it would change your life.
[1:29:12] I don't know if it would, David. It shouldn't.
[1:29:16] Change your life, David. Yeah, despite.
[1:29:19] Having a disturbed. Cinematic mind.
[1:29:21] If you've seen Lynch in interviews, he seems quite the
[1:29:23] wholesome chap. Yes, wonderful, Jimmy.
[1:29:25] Sealed for Mars. That's what I am.
[1:29:27] Well, books called him. Wasn't it brilliant?
[1:29:31] Jimmy sealed for Mars. Yep, that's me.
[1:29:33] Perfect. You'd.
[1:29:35] Expect him to emerge from the. Shadows, but he seems like a
[1:29:37] well adjusted mind. What a quiff as well.
[1:29:40] Great hair. Yeah.
[1:29:40] Wonderful. Yeah, on.
[1:29:42] Set despite having. Written the screenplay.
[1:29:44] He never uttered any foul language, something that Dennis
[1:29:47] Hopper found very amusing with Lynch would point at the script
[1:29:50] and say that word. He's even made direction.
[1:29:57] Like, difficult. You know what's?
[1:30:00] Interesting though, you know, like.
[1:30:01] Obviously when he died, all the tributes that came out, the
[1:30:04] amount of actresses he worked with who had nothing but praise
[1:30:07] from, considering how many like dark films about sex he's made,
[1:30:11] you would think is he a bit dodgy in real life?
[1:30:14] But it just seemed like an absolute gentleman, like the
[1:30:16] kind of soul you could ever meet.
[1:30:18] It's almost like an alter ego. Has written made his films,
[1:30:22] yeah. So this is semi.
[1:30:23] Autobiographical for Lynch, Jeffrey dresses like he did.
[1:30:26] His father worked in the Department of Agriculture, and
[1:30:28] as such he was always in the woods, he said.
[1:30:31] Lumber and lumberjacks. That's America to me, like the
[1:30:33] picket fences and the roses at the opening shot.
[1:30:35] It's all burned in that image and it makes me feel so happy.
[1:30:39] That's quite. Strange makes.
[1:30:41] Him feel so happy and I'll meet this nightmare underneath it,
[1:30:44] yeah. So a strange and disturbingly.
[1:30:48] Unique vision from Lynch and his screenplay.
[1:30:50] Everything we'd come to expect from the Quafford genius.
[1:30:54] Yeah, definitely. And next we have the unsettling.
[1:30:58] Sound of the Music and Blue Velvet There are some huge
[1:31:01] fifties 60s hits that punctuate the narrative at the beginning
[1:31:04] of an enduring cinematic partnership between David Lynch
[1:31:07] and Angelo Badlamenti. Matt.
[1:31:10] What do you think of? The music in the film, it's such
[1:31:14] an. Eclectic mixture.
[1:31:15] You've got the 50 standards. You go from the opening titles,
[1:31:20] which is this very Bernard Hermanesque for boarding score,
[1:31:24] very much riffing on vertical, I think in particular from his
[1:31:28] back catalog. And then you've got this the
[1:31:30] like slinky jazz in there that is very Twin Peaks.
[1:31:34] If you ever watch Twin Peaks, that was that kind of
[1:31:36] soundtrack. But again.
[1:31:38] It's one of the elements. Of the film where it's all about
[1:31:40] the contrast, because then you've also got that ethereal,
[1:31:43] almost angelic chorus that comes in the mysteries of love, you
[1:31:47] know, which is always associated with Sandy and the end.
[1:31:50] And that is so like blissed out. But it's also really, really
[1:31:53] honest. Like that kind of music.
[1:31:55] It could sound like a parody. It could sound like a parody of
[1:31:58] a John Williams type Scott. But it never does.
[1:32:00] And I think that's because Lynch has never parodied anything in
[1:32:04] his life in any of his films. Anything in his films he
[1:32:06] believes in. So he believes in the darkness
[1:32:09] and the CD underbelly of life, but he also truly believes in
[1:32:12] the heel and power of love. And he believes that those two
[1:32:15] things can coexist, and therefore they can coexist in
[1:32:18] the soundtrack as well. And that's what that represents
[1:32:21] to me, the contrast and the balance at the same time.
[1:32:23] So it's a mixed year that, like so much of David Lynch,
[1:32:26] particularly in this film, it shouldn't work.
[1:32:28] But the variety of music just works perfectly.
[1:32:31] Yeah. Classic Lynch again.
[1:32:33] Everything classic Lynch. Everything's classic Lynch.
[1:32:35] Westy Your. Thoughts on the music in the
[1:32:37] film? Yeah.
[1:32:38] I mean, it's very, very. Playful, I think, yes, Battle
[1:32:42] and he's. Having a great.
[1:32:43] Time here, he can just turn his hand to anything and it works.
[1:32:47] It's really sets the tone as it goes through the film.
[1:32:50] But not as sledgehammery. I think you need someone, Lynch
[1:32:53] needs someone like this, who has got a little bit of subtly, who
[1:32:56] is kind of stepping back a little bit and making you think,
[1:32:59] does this fit in this part of the film?
[1:33:02] Does that jazz make any sense right now?
[1:33:04] Does this real foreboding sense of dread really resonate with
[1:33:09] finding an ear in a field? Does this make sense now?
[1:33:12] I think that's what he does really well as he reads Lynch
[1:33:14] and gives you the opposite of what should really go with it.
[1:33:18] Like he's putting potatoes with pasta almost.
[1:33:20] He's kind of like going, well, you can't eat that at the same
[1:33:23] time, but it might not work. But it's not.
[1:33:25] You decide that. And it is like a Batman, Robin
[1:33:28] kind of thing for me with these two, Yeah.
[1:33:31] Lynch is kind of batting the ball.
[1:33:32] Over and going, this is the scene, right?
[1:33:34] Give us something that I'm not expecting and he gives him
[1:33:37] something that he's not expecting.
[1:33:38] And Lynch goes, we're using that.
[1:33:39] I mean, there's like double bass in there.
[1:33:41] Sounds like a jazz. Kind.
[1:33:43] Of. Comedian.
[1:33:45] Like just to fill the gaps of just thoughts.
[1:33:47] You don't have to think about it.
[1:33:48] There's no painful silences. It's just there just to chug
[1:33:50] along with the pace. And that's the thing I thought
[1:33:53] about the screenplay, with the plotting of it.
[1:33:55] I think with the score, it really helps with the plotting
[1:33:58] of the film, with the piercing of the film.
[1:34:00] Yeah, it helps it move, and it helps it move at exactly the
[1:34:03] right pace. Nobody's got a theme here, you
[1:34:06] know, it's not the imperial March when Frank turns up.
[1:34:09] There's no there's no big theme. Imagine that'd be great.
[1:34:12] That Just call me daddy. Yeah.
[1:34:18] Oh, I couldn't imagine it. That's.
[1:34:19] Even more terrifying? Then that's what I mean, it just
[1:34:23] mixes. Together perfectly.
[1:34:24] I think this collaboration here really, really works.
[1:34:27] And I think Battle and he's taking a backseat going yeah,
[1:34:30] I'm quite happy to make this as crazy as you want to make it.
[1:34:33] Let's do it. Yeah, he really started.
[1:34:35] Something here with Lynch, and I think is a major element of the
[1:34:38] term Lynchian. You get bad lament his work with
[1:34:41] David Lynch, dreamlike, floating, hazy music.
[1:34:44] It creates a kind of hyper realistic tone.
[1:34:47] We can never trust that we're in the real world when that music
[1:34:49] kicks in, especially when matched with the visuals.
[1:34:52] It's particularly noticeable during the like the romantic
[1:34:54] scenes between Jeffrey and Sandy, that dreamland quality.
[1:34:58] Linds must have thought like all of his Christmases would come up
[1:35:00] once when Angelo came on board. But this is only one element of
[1:35:04] his work. You've also got, like you've
[1:35:06] been talking about, overtly new arm music.
[1:35:08] It's the music of the 40s, where all the hip cats occupy the
[1:35:11] shadows. It's lounging jazz with lazy
[1:35:15] sacks, it sounds like. Who framed?
[1:35:18] Roger Rabbit. Dozen places, yeah.
[1:35:22] And it's. All done very.
[1:35:23] Tongue in cheek, given some much needed levity to the film.
[1:35:27] And then add to that the dramatic score he brings to the
[1:35:29] nightmare scenes. It's almost like he's made three
[1:35:31] different scores for three different films here.
[1:35:34] Yeah. Three or four, Yeah.
[1:35:35] And the 50s songs. Are a revelation.
[1:35:38] Songs that were from a bag on era of teenagers in love and
[1:35:41] milkshakes now took on a brand new lease of life.
[1:35:43] The film reveals a darkness in Blue velvet and in dreams that
[1:35:46] I'm sure were caught everyone by surprise.
[1:35:49] Oh absolutely. Those songs absolutely haunt me
[1:35:53] now, particularly in dreams. Yeah.
[1:35:56] Yeah, Isabella. Rossellini, actually.
[1:35:57] Sung her version of Blue Velvet, and because that's her voice,
[1:36:01] she had a vocal coach on set, but they couldn't quite nail it.
[1:36:05] So producer Fred Caruso drafted in his old buddy Angelo
[1:36:08] Badlamenti. He flew into town and worked
[1:36:11] with Rossellini on her voice. Arrangement of the song.
[1:36:14] Yeah, the arrangement is totally.
[1:36:15] Different. I love that slow build of like
[1:36:18] the first couple of lines and you just have to wait for it to
[1:36:20] kick in. Fantastic, She sounds almost
[1:36:23] like. Nico, the way that, like the
[1:36:25] internation, it's almost dull and it's not quite right.
[1:36:28] Yeah. It's not quite.
[1:36:29] It's not. Quite in time, it's not quite.
[1:36:31] Right. Yeah, something about it.
[1:36:32] Yeah, it's lovely. Lynch wasn't, actually.
[1:36:34] Blown away by this notion at first because Bad Lamenti was an
[1:36:37] outsider, but he loved the arrangement of the song that he
[1:36:40] did and the got along famously. So Lynch asked him to score the
[1:36:42] whole film. Yeah, and this was the start.
[1:36:44] As we've said, the start of a beautiful friendship with Battle
[1:36:47] Men in Lynch, working together on all Lynch projects apart from
[1:36:50] Inland Empire. He would refer to his
[1:36:52] partnership with Lynch as my second best marriage.
[1:36:56] Wow, nice. When Sandy.
[1:36:57] And Jeffrey are walking down the streets.
[1:36:59] Lynch played composer Dmitry Shostakovich music booming out
[1:37:04] the speakers as a walking down the street at night.
[1:37:07] He said that he listened non-stop to #15 and a major when
[1:37:11] writing the screenplay. And one of the atmosphere
[1:37:13] created by that song to pervade the set, right?
[1:37:17] Lynch also told Badlimenti. To make the music for the film,
[1:37:19] like Shostakovich, be very Russian, but make it the most
[1:37:23] beautiful thing, but make it dark and a little bit scary.
[1:37:27] Where do you go with that? Thanks, Dave.
[1:37:30] Hurry up, but take your. Time.
[1:37:31] Keep it. Loud.
[1:37:32] Keep it quiet. And bad lamenti.
[1:37:36] Appears in the film as the pianist in the Slow Club.
[1:37:40] All right, OK. In the middle of film and Lynch
[1:37:42] and McLaughlin. Were driving from New York to
[1:37:44] Wilmington and Crying by Roy Orbison came on the radio.
[1:37:48] Amazing. Lynch loved it and said he
[1:37:50] needed to include that song in Blue Velvet.
[1:37:52] He bought a copy of Orbison's greatest hits, but became
[1:37:54] enamoured with another song instead.
[1:37:56] That we've been talking about in dreams.
[1:37:58] Yeah, crying's already. Been used on it.
[1:38:00] Crying. It only fills in.
[1:38:09] Horses yet again. Yeah, there it is, every.
[1:38:12] Episode now and Lynch was inspired by the.
[1:38:17] Bobby Vinton version of Blue Velvet, he said.
[1:38:20] It wasn't the kind of music that I really liked, but there was
[1:38:22] something mysterious about it. It made me think about things,
[1:38:26] and the first things I thought about were lawns.
[1:38:28] Lawns in the neighborhood, right?
[1:38:31] I'm amazing there's £6 million made the film that's completely
[1:38:34] yours on Put Music and I don't really like sound.
[1:38:38] Why? Because.
[1:38:38] It makes me think of lawns. It made me think of gardens,
[1:38:42] yeah. Anything to do with the
[1:38:44] narrative? No, no gardens.
[1:38:45] And that just gardens, and that's great.
[1:38:48] Love it, but despite the gardens and.
[1:38:55] That that lament these imprint on Blue Velvet is undeniable.
[1:38:59] Yes, definitely. Finally, it's a collaborator.
[1:39:04] Of Lynch's since he started making films in DDP
[1:39:07] extraordinaire it is Frederick Elms Westie Yeah your thoughts
[1:39:13] on Fred Elms here I mean the way that this.
[1:39:15] Whole film shifts over its full runtime of two hours from this
[1:39:20] glossy, beautiful Sheen to then it seems to go from day to
[1:39:24] night, but then back today again, it seems like a stick, a
[1:39:28] complete tonal shift in the open, and it's just like a
[1:39:31] sunrise. And it's just got all of this
[1:39:33] great tonnage to it. The color palettes, absolutely
[1:39:35] amazing. There's a lot of contrast in
[1:39:37] there. And to me, it feels like Lynch
[1:39:40] needs somebody he can rely on. And we know that Fred Helms did
[1:39:44] a race ahead, so he's gone back to his roots.
[1:39:46] It's not overshadowed. It could be if someone was a
[1:39:50] little bit more heavy-handed. I think Lynch is heavy-handed
[1:39:52] enough and I don't I still don't think there's any subtlety of
[1:39:55] the cinematography, but it's definitely not over the top.
[1:39:58] And I think of anyone shown restraint on the set.
[1:40:01] I mean, we've already talked about the score.
[1:40:02] We talked about Angelo just running with Lynch and just I've
[1:40:05] just met him. Here we go.
[1:40:06] But I think Fred Holmes knew him a little bit longer and said,
[1:40:08] I'll tell you what, we're just going to draw this back
[1:40:10] slightly. And you can tell that with
[1:40:12] camera movement, with blocking, some of it's very considered,
[1:40:15] some of it's very intentional. Like we said about that shot,
[1:40:17] that always. Breaks me in the apartment, the
[1:40:19] whole Frank Booth scene, I think there's about 3-3 shots, three
[1:40:23] different cuts and it's all held on that wide and it's how
[1:40:27] important that why it is and how important the practicals are.
[1:40:29] But it never looks lit. It never looks over the top,
[1:40:32] looks very much part of the scene.
[1:40:35] It looks almost dark around the. Edges.
[1:40:37] Yeah, it's got a vignette. It's.
[1:40:38] Got that real. Just draws you into the center
[1:40:40] of the frame all the time. I don't think there's a lot of
[1:40:43] thirds in this film where you kind of go right.
[1:40:45] Well, that needs to be off to the side there.
[1:40:46] Even that great shot we're talking about with Frank in the
[1:40:49] car, when he turns around, you still got Frank on one side,
[1:40:51] you've got Dorothy on the other. It's all very symmetrical.
[1:40:53] It's all very framed. Everything has a place on the
[1:40:56] screen. And I think Frederick Helms just
[1:40:58] really knows where that place is.
[1:41:00] And you need somebody who understands Lynch.
[1:41:02] I think the police vision onto the screen as well as he does
[1:41:04] here. He needs somebody who he can
[1:41:06] trust, and he can trust Frederick Helms.
[1:41:08] Without doubt we've. Talked about a color and
[1:41:10] lighting plays a huge part. Blues and Reds.
[1:41:13] Whenever Jeffrey is contemplating the dark side of
[1:41:15] his wants and desires, he's usually under the spell of a red
[1:41:18] light. Dorothy wears a blue velvet
[1:41:21] rope. The blue represents an innocence
[1:41:23] which she uses to cover up the sin of her body.
[1:41:25] And equally, Frank uses swatches of that blue velvet, presumably
[1:41:29] to justify his actions. And they're all captured so
[1:41:32] stark and beautifully by Elms. It's very similar to what you
[1:41:35] were saying. Westie creates this very
[1:41:37] uncomfortable space in a lot of the sets.
[1:41:39] He sits on a wide shot for long periods of time, making it very
[1:41:43] uneasy. There's only about three shots
[1:41:45] in Dorothy's apartment. It's set up like anything can
[1:41:48] happen because this space just isn't filled, so something's
[1:41:51] going to come in at some point. Yeah, it's classic horror trope
[1:41:54] as well. It is.
[1:41:55] Yes, it is. Obviously failing.
[1:41:56] More specifically in Dorothy's apartment when Jeffrey first
[1:41:59] knocks on the door and he's hiding in the closet when he
[1:42:01] goes back in at the end and sees this strange formation of dead
[1:42:04] bodies. I've never been more unsettled
[1:42:06] by an apartment in movies. Ever see him?
[1:42:09] Yeah, every time. We go back to Dorothy's.
[1:42:11] I get this horrendous sense of on these, like I said, and
[1:42:14] that's because nothing good ever happens there.
[1:42:16] Lynch creates this sensation, but Elms has captured it
[1:42:19] perfectly. You can see it in This Is It
[1:42:22] scene as well. The original plan was to set up
[1:42:25] the block and then have close up shots, but during rehearsals
[1:42:27] this only complicated the scene. So Elms put it as a wide shot
[1:42:31] with all the characters in the frame.
[1:42:32] He said that he'd give the scene an intentional awkwardness,
[1:42:35] which put everybody on edge. Yeah, seeing everybody.
[1:42:38] Just you just don't know who's going to do what exactly.
[1:42:41] Yeah. It's the use of.
[1:42:42] Lightning, I think for me to go from that open and that I talked
[1:42:45] about to the darkness of the club to the darkness of the
[1:42:48] streets when Jeffrey and Sandy are just walking and that street
[1:42:52] just stretches on behind them into Infinity and think over
[1:42:55] there. But short of it's very brief,
[1:42:58] that chart where just pushes in on the trees and the streets are
[1:43:01] blank. That point of view shot from
[1:43:03] there. Like there by the POV shot jump.
[1:43:06] Out from behind that. Tree, it's a real Halloween.
[1:43:09] It's really Halloween. It's really.
[1:43:10] Unsettling. And it's just that one bit.
[1:43:12] I mean, everything is so carefully thought through, like
[1:43:15] Ben's place. It's lit to suggest all these
[1:43:17] dark corners where anything could be thriving.
[1:43:20] But again, it's like the music. It's about contrast scenes, like
[1:43:23] the first time Jeffrey C Sandy and she steps out of darkness.
[1:43:27] It's like a 50s melodrama or something like that.
[1:43:32] But then you. Can't last that to any scene.
[1:43:34] But Frank and they tried like a horror film instead.
[1:43:36] Like it's incredibly disturbing. Everything in this film is
[1:43:39] decided to put you on edge, to throw you off a little bit.
[1:43:42] You see, you don't know what's coming next to the sound design,
[1:43:44] the production design, same the cinematography.
[1:43:46] The whole film is about things being brought into the light
[1:43:49] that shouldn't be brought into the light.
[1:43:51] And that's really what cinematography is doing here.
[1:43:54] And Elms himself said it's a dark film because when he gets
[1:43:57] down under the surface and in over his head, he's in the mock
[1:44:00] and Maya of this of the world, but he doesn't want to be in.
[1:44:02] But he's still intrigued and caught up in it.
[1:44:04] So I tried to create a style that would fit that mood.
[1:44:07] Yeah, yeah. And he did that by.
[1:44:09] Me at the beginning and the end of the film.
[1:44:10] Overtly cheerful and colorful to give a stark contrast to the
[1:44:14] middle of the scene. The bulk of the film.
[1:44:16] The scene in the car wasn't. Actually shot in the moving car.
[1:44:19] Fred Elm said that because the car appeared to be moving faster
[1:44:22] than was safe for a movie, the best way to give an impression
[1:44:24] of speed was to have lights moved past the stationary car by
[1:44:27] crew members very quickly and silently.
[1:44:30] It was just running past the car.
[1:44:31] It was all choreographed very carefully to create the illusion
[1:44:33] of a moving car. Totally works for me.
[1:44:36] Yeah, they were just rocking it. And just moving those lights
[1:44:39] past it, it looks incredible. Looks great.
[1:44:42] Yeah, you don't. Question it at all?
[1:44:44] So a one in a million screenplay by David Lynch, who used trusted
[1:44:47] confidants old and new in his crew on Blue Velvet?
[1:44:50] Yep. The end Jeffrey has plunged to
[1:44:59] depths. He could never have expected.
[1:45:00] And now he has to. Chloe's way back and he starts
[1:45:03] by confessing his investigation to Sandy's dad.
[1:45:07] Westie, it's over to you. I'm going to go to the scene.
[1:45:09] Where he goes back to the police station.
[1:45:11] Yeah. And we'll see.
[1:45:12] The yellow man. Love it.
[1:45:14] I mean, this guy's not so Lizzy. Just change your jacket.
[1:45:17] Same jacket every day. Just.
[1:45:18] The same jacket all the time. And he's supposed.
[1:45:21] To be doing, you know, pretty shady things.
[1:45:24] And I think if he wasn't wearing that jacket, I think it'd be
[1:45:26] hard for the audience to recognize him because Gordon
[1:45:28] just looks very, very plain. Very, very, very plain guy.
[1:45:32] And this is a very, very stark contrast now to the police
[1:45:35] station that I mentioned earlier on.
[1:45:37] This is a completely different place.
[1:45:39] Not even. It's just like a different room.
[1:45:40] It's a completely different building all together.
[1:45:43] I think this is all just really intentional and I think it was
[1:45:46] really excellent when we get that alternative angle from when
[1:45:50] Jeffrey's remembering what Frank said about Gordon.
[1:45:53] Love it and you get that into the alternative and it's just
[1:45:56] like from the side when he's kind of remembering it and it's
[1:45:59] just you then feel it's probably the most in line part of the
[1:46:03] narrative in the whole film though.
[1:46:05] That makes perfect sense. That's how we saw Frank talk
[1:46:07] about Gordon. Oh my God, this actually works
[1:46:10] and I love it for that whole just the way it spins
[1:46:13] everything. It feels like I'm watching a
[1:46:15] different film than one I was watching an hour 1/2 ago.
[1:46:18] It's completely different. Everyone.
[1:46:19] The acting is miles better. The reaction shots are miles
[1:46:22] better. The cutaways are just really,
[1:46:23] really fast and everything starts to make a little bit more
[1:46:26] sense. Really, really great scene.
[1:46:29] Well, just a little bit. I mean, he's wearing a yellow
[1:46:34] jacket. I recognize the guy.
[1:46:35] There's a flashback. Frank said something.
[1:46:37] He's got the same name. Perfect.
[1:46:39] This is all we need here. We'll go.
[1:46:40] Let's end the film here, please. Yeah, I mean Wesley.
[1:46:45] 'S talking about the film making sense now and being normal.
[1:46:47] Well, not really, just slightly. Well, slightly by little
[1:46:50] standards. Stop putting words in me though.
[1:46:53] Yeah, violin standards, because. Then think you move into what is
[1:46:56] maybe the most normal scene of the film, which is Geoffrey and
[1:46:59] Sandy going to this party. Yes, because you know, it's what
[1:47:02] the people do of their age and it's completely normal.
[1:47:05] But then again, when is this set?
[1:47:06] Because that's some 50s rockabilly playing during this,
[1:47:10] and there's seventy 80s kids there.
[1:47:12] But then it just moves into, like, the most lushly romantic
[1:47:15] scene you could imagine of Geoffrey and Sandy confessing
[1:47:18] their love to each other. Well, I'm incredible.
[1:47:21] Soundtrack Mysteries of Love. It's called Players Over.
[1:47:24] Yeah. Like if you watch the scene in
[1:47:26] isolation, you'd think I'm just watching one of the great
[1:47:29] romantic worlds of all time. That's what the scene is.
[1:47:31] Yeah. Imagine just seeing the scene
[1:47:33] and then. Going do you want to watch Blue
[1:47:34] Velvet? This is the scene from You go.
[1:47:35] Oh yeah, yeah, I'd love to watch that.
[1:47:37] This would. Be lovely, Valentine's.
[1:47:38] Day maybe? Yeah.
[1:47:40] Exactly. Then even following this you.
[1:47:46] Get them pursued in the car by Mike, who is Sandy's
[1:47:49] ex-boyfriend. You think, oh, it's going to be
[1:47:51] like tragically romantic. It's two people who need to be
[1:47:54] together in the face of adversity.
[1:47:55] It's very Romeo and Juliet, but it ends up being another scene.
[1:47:59] That's testament to how Lynch can just shift gears and tones
[1:48:03] throughout this song. Because when they get into that
[1:48:04] confrontation outside the house, the way that Dorothy just
[1:48:08] appears in the background, yeah, it's really naked, obviously, in
[1:48:12] some disaster. It's one of the creepiest things
[1:48:14] I've ever seen because it just drove you out of that teenage
[1:48:17] romance. So glad you've just been in.
[1:48:19] Like it's one of the things. I can just.
[1:48:22] Vividly remember first time around just being so sad, the
[1:48:25] way she just emerges out of the darkness.
[1:48:27] Yeah. And almost no one knows apart
[1:48:30] from Mike. So yeah, so much of the effect
[1:48:32] of Blue Velvet is the way all these contrasts and taunts and
[1:48:36] subplots can flow into one another and be part of the
[1:48:38] whole, no matter how different they are to each other.
[1:48:41] I like. Mike, who's going to?
[1:48:43] Kick Jeffrey's ass then starts. To take.
[1:48:46] Face out with Dorothy, but then realizes how serious the
[1:48:49] situation is. Is that your mom?
[1:48:51] Yeah. Yeah, Awful, horrible.
[1:48:54] So this scene we're. Talking about the scene.
[1:48:55] Where Dorothy is naked on the lawn near the end was inspired
[1:48:58] by real events, if you can believe that.
[1:49:00] When Lynch was a kid, he was on his way home with his brother
[1:49:02] when he saw a naked woman in the street.
[1:49:05] He said it wasn't totally it and it was disturbing.
[1:49:07] And he started to cry. You recognize the violent
[1:49:09] undertones of this and one of the representing that feeling in
[1:49:12] Blue Velvet. And he really does.
[1:49:14] Yeah, he does. It's not sexy.
[1:49:16] This scene not as far. It's the farthest thing from.
[1:49:19] Sexy. I think I've ever seen him,
[1:49:20] Yeah. And.
[1:49:21] Film of this scene. Caused quite a stir among the
[1:49:24] citizens of Wilmington. They all came out with their
[1:49:26] picnic blankets to watch the scene being shot, despite Lynch
[1:49:29] and Rossellini asking them not to.
[1:49:31] But after the scene, the local police forbade Lynch from
[1:49:35] shooting any more scenes outside because of the stirrer created.
[1:49:39] Of course, that set should have been locked off.
[1:49:43] Absolutely ridiculous. What do you think?
[1:49:46] Well, I'm picking. Up where they take.
[1:49:47] Dorothy back to Sandy's parents place.
[1:49:50] Right now this is a mixture of the two worlds colliding to
[1:49:53] devastating effect. A bruised, battered and naked
[1:49:56] Dorothy has snook behind the white picketed fence of suburbia
[1:50:00] and Sandy's mother does not like what she sees.
[1:50:03] Maybe he doesn't. Jeffrey, Maybe Dorothy.
[1:50:05] 'S secret lover. But Sandy, she doesn't need to
[1:50:08] hear that, not really. And she certainly doesn't.
[1:50:11] Want to hear? That he put his disease in the
[1:50:13] Dorothy. I'd love Jeffrey to say, listen,
[1:50:17] I wish you'd stop saying that because it really doesn't
[1:50:19] reflect well on me. I don't have any diseases.
[1:50:22] What the fuck are you? Talking about I.
[1:50:24] Don't know who you are? She says it.
[1:50:28] Twice. He put a disease in me.
[1:50:30] Shut up, man. And I think this is where he.
[1:50:39] Jeffrey has to make a decision about what path he wants to walk
[1:50:41] down. He ultimately chooses Sandy and
[1:50:43] brings the light back to the world.
[1:50:45] And I think another mention should go to Isabella
[1:50:47] Rossellini. Here she leaves it all on shore,
[1:50:49] no airs, and graces. Her tortured soul is there for
[1:50:52] all to see in the most vulnerable way possible, and
[1:50:55] you're crying out for somebody to give her a bloody blanket or
[1:50:59] something like that. Just cover her up because she's
[1:51:02] got no clothes on for too long. That court takes too long to
[1:51:05] come into the living room. It does.
[1:51:07] Yeah. Yeah.
[1:51:08] So a chilling turn of. Events, disturbing imagery,
[1:51:11] challenging audience expectations and tolerance.
[1:51:13] All in a day's work for David Lynch.
[1:51:19] The final stretch of the film sees.
[1:51:21] Jeffrey, confront Frank before everything returns back to Erie.
[1:51:24] Normality. Westie, you're kicking us off.
[1:51:27] Yeah, it's starting to climb back.
[1:51:28] Isn't it starting to climb back to a little bit of happiness?
[1:51:31] I think some in some ways, you know, it's it's the middle of
[1:51:34] the night, but there's still that gloss there, especially
[1:51:36] where it's when Sandy's room when he's just on the phone to
[1:51:38] Jeffrey and it feels a bit like grease here to me.
[1:51:42] You know, the hope to see devoted.
[1:51:43] See, you might say, Sandy, it's alright.
[1:51:44] I love you. And she's on the phone and say
[1:51:46] everything in our room looks like that kind of 1950s kind of
[1:51:49] rhetoric. Great.
[1:51:51] Mirror shot I love. That I love the way it kind of
[1:51:53] comes out from that. Dern's absolutely wonderful
[1:51:55] here. She's absolutely one because she
[1:51:58] sells it. She's very forgiven as a
[1:51:59] character. Very forgiven.
[1:52:01] Straight away, that's fine. I love you.
[1:52:03] Yeah. Yeah, it's fine.
[1:52:04] Yeah. I'm sorry.
[1:52:05] I overreacted slightly. No, you didn't.
[1:52:07] You overreacted massively. That's what I think.
[1:52:10] I don't think you should even take the phone call, let's be
[1:52:12] honest. I think she should stipulate.
[1:52:14] That he gets rid of the disease firstly before they do any
[1:52:17] questions. What?
[1:52:18] It is maybe. Is it, you know, is it
[1:52:21] metaphorical? Is it, is it physical?
[1:52:23] What is the, what's the problem here?
[1:52:24] There's a lot, there's a lot of questions.
[1:52:26] It's a big ugly cry, isn't it? It's a big ugly cry.
[1:52:30] Then she's she's getting into the character and doing it
[1:52:32] really well. And when she delivers that line,
[1:52:34] where's my dream? That is absolutely fantastic.
[1:52:38] Just like, where's the happiness?
[1:52:40] Where's the light? When's the sun going to come up?
[1:52:42] Why is it so dark? What can I do to help?
[1:52:45] That's the last cut from her. And then we move into the most
[1:52:47] shadowed part of the whole film. It is now or never.
[1:52:51] It is make or break. Jeffrey is there at Dorothy's,
[1:52:54] and that corridor is pitch black.
[1:52:57] There's this exit sign behind him.
[1:52:59] There's Dorothy's door there. There's a couple of slivers of
[1:53:01] light, but he can kind of come in and come from.
[1:53:04] And when he opens that door, it's just terrible.
[1:53:08] Would you go in that room? No.
[1:53:10] He. Turned the corner and there's
[1:53:11] there's. The yellow man standing with a
[1:53:13] hole in his head, but he's still alive.
[1:53:15] Some guy sat down with a velvet thing stuffed down his mouth and
[1:53:19] a police radio in his pocket and a smash television and a light
[1:53:23] weird. And there's that jump.
[1:53:24] Scare when the. Radio goes off and he hits the
[1:53:27] lamp and you're like, this guy's still alive.
[1:53:30] What on earth is going on? Do you use this guy Is that
[1:53:33] husband? What's he?
[1:53:34] Why is he like standing up? How is he standing?
[1:53:37] Up why? Is he hitting a light?
[1:53:38] What on earth is going on? Has he been lobotomized?
[1:53:41] It makes no sense whatsoever. But you still buy it.
[1:53:44] And when Frank turns up and you just see him and like I said,
[1:53:46] it's hilarious, his delivery when he comes in here and he
[1:53:49] starts shouting and screaming and he's just like, hey,
[1:53:52] neighbor mustache, shit head. Shit.
[1:53:57] For brains, shit for. Brains and completely just.
[1:53:59] Belittling them. I can hear you radio.
[1:54:02] Fuck that image. Of Frank coming up the.
[1:54:04] Stairs in the well dressed man outfit.
[1:54:06] Terrifying when he looks up the stairwell of Jeffrey and makes
[1:54:09] my blood run cold. Nice.
[1:54:11] Yeah, I really. Like when Jeffrey realized.
[1:54:13] That Frank's got a radio and he can hear his conversation with
[1:54:15] Detective Williams. But he's smart and he gives a
[1:54:18] little decoy. I'll be in the back bedroom,
[1:54:21] back in the closet, waiting for Frank to arrive.
[1:54:22] Yet again, Frank. Frank.
[1:54:25] He made Frank screams when he's going into the room.
[1:54:28] Pretty pretty. You can just hear randomly.
[1:54:33] Plugging away at the bed and. Then you take some three or four
[1:54:40] shots. To realize he's not there, it's
[1:54:42] amazing. It's great.
[1:54:44] And. Yeah, I think it's a little
[1:54:45] conventional where Frank gets blown away on a surface level at
[1:54:48] least. But for me, it's really
[1:54:50] symbolic. The last time Jeffrey was in
[1:54:52] that closet, the door was opened to all of this darkness and
[1:54:55] sexual deviance. Yeah.
[1:54:57] Now he's suppressing that by coming out of the closet and
[1:54:59] taking Frank out of the equation, leading him back on
[1:55:02] the path to lightness and love in the world with Sandy.
[1:55:05] Yeah. Incredibly simple.
[1:55:07] And then we get to the end. We'll come.
[1:55:08] Out of the ear and back into some kind of normality.
[1:55:12] Yeah, I think Jeffrey is enjoying the sun.
[1:55:15] Yeah. His dad is fit and healthy.
[1:55:17] He's there. Ridiculous.
[1:55:18] Sandy just completely forgiven the affair with Dorothy.
[1:55:21] And you have the Fakers Burden Cinema since Mary Poppins eating
[1:55:25] a bug and it's. All to set.
[1:55:28] To that glorious, heavenly music again.
[1:55:30] So what does it all mean? I think it's too much of A
[1:55:33] cliche to say. Is it a dream?
[1:55:35] Maybe it's all in Jeffrey's head.
[1:55:37] It's more the fact that the Robins have brought the light,
[1:55:39] just like Sandy said. The wood Robin has eaten the
[1:55:42] book. Light has destroyed the dark.
[1:55:44] Frank is dead. Dorothy is free.
[1:55:46] But having said that, that Robin is very deliberately not real.
[1:55:50] So what's that saying is, you know, can light truly destroy
[1:55:53] dark? Maybe that's an illusion.
[1:55:55] Maybe it's only a partial victory or one that won't last.
[1:55:57] We see you repeat of the imagery we saw at the start.
[1:56:00] Or is this thing just cyclical and nothing's truly over and
[1:56:04] nothing truly ends? We see that sort of Dorothy with
[1:56:07] the sun, and she's obviously delighted to be free.
[1:56:09] But as the song plays at the end in the lyric, but I still
[1:56:12] remember Blue Velvet comes on, there's just that bit of doubt
[1:56:16] in her expression. So maybe it isn't a happy ending
[1:56:18] we think it is. Maybe nothing's been
[1:56:21] accomplished. Maybe it is a dream, or maybe
[1:56:24] it's just the last thing that Sandy says.
[1:56:26] It's a strange world, isn't it? Yes, it is.
[1:56:28] Yes. Yes, it is.
[1:56:30] Yeah. It's a strange world, isn't it?
[1:56:36] I'm going to leave it at that. It's a strange world.
[1:56:39] Yeah, I think I. Just Jeffrey this.
[1:56:40] That's idealistic side of Jeffrey is one out.
[1:56:43] He's surrounded himself with the symbols of this ideal.
[1:56:46] It doesn't mean that the darkness is in, the world is
[1:56:48] gone. It's just that Jeffrey has
[1:56:49] chosen to ignore that side of his personality.
[1:56:52] Yeah, that's why it shows the dead.
[1:56:54] Flows at the end, doesn't it? Yes, So the.
[1:56:56] Light has returned to. Earth and the idealistic
[1:56:58] American Dream is still alive, but there's still something
[1:57:01] lurking underneath. Yeah.
[1:57:06] Reception and awards Blue Velvet premiered at the.
[1:57:11] Montreal World Film Festival in August 86, where Dennis Hopper
[1:57:15] won Best Actor, and at the Toronto Festival of Festivals on
[1:57:19] September 12th before making its big nationwide release in the US
[1:57:23] on opening weekend. There was a mixed reaction to
[1:57:25] the film, as you could guess. Would have thought so, yeah.
[1:57:29] Really. Wasn't just straight down the
[1:57:31] line. People.
[1:57:35] Walked out and demanded. A refund?
[1:57:37] There were reports of lines of cinema goes queuing around the
[1:57:40] block in LA and New York. In Chicago, a man passed out and
[1:57:43] had to have his pacemaker checked before going back into
[1:57:46] the theatre to catch the end. Was that just?
[1:57:49] The start of the film, just. Doing his lawn hadn't.
[1:57:52] Even watched it deal around this Entertainment Group.
[1:57:57] 'S marketing team didn't know what to make of Blue Velvet when
[1:57:59] it came to promoting the film, of course.
[1:58:05] Yeah, it wasn't. Until it started to get positive
[1:58:07] reviews that they began to promote it.
[1:58:09] Yes, yes, and those. Positive reviews came from big
[1:58:11] movie critics. Janet Maslin, writing in The New
[1:58:14] York Times, said that Blue Velvet was an instant cult
[1:58:17] classic and said that it confirms Mr. Lynch's stature as
[1:58:20] an innovator, A superb technician and someone best not
[1:58:23] encountered in a dark alley. Wow, OK.
[1:58:28] I mean from. This film you can kind of get.
[1:58:30] That yeah, Peter Travers. And Rolling Stone called it an
[1:58:33] American masterpiece and later declared it the best film of the
[1:58:36] 80s. And what of Roger Ebert?
[1:58:39] What do you think he's got it out of four fellas.
[1:58:41] I either Absolutely. Loved it or absolutely hated it,
[1:58:45] I'm going to say loved it. I'm going to agree.
[1:58:47] I think bit of a. Curveball that he loved it for
[1:58:49] four actually, he. Gave it a one out of four.
[1:58:56] He's got no patience. We should.
[1:59:00] Have guessed that well. What he said was I was absorbed.
[1:59:02] And convinced by the relationship between Rossellini
[1:59:05] and McLaughlin. And annoyed because the director
[1:59:07] kept placing himself between me and the material.
[1:59:09] After 5 or 10 minutes, I didn't need the director prancing on
[1:59:12] with a top hat and cane whistling that it was all in
[1:59:15] fun. In a way, Lynch's behavior is
[1:59:18] more sadistic than the Hopper character.
[1:59:19] What's worse, slapping somebody around or standing back and
[1:59:23] finding the whole thing funny, which we know he did.
[1:59:26] Yeah, we. Do I think he wanted a more
[1:59:28] straightforward? Narrative, yeah, but that's when
[1:59:31] this. Came out, this was 86, right?
[1:59:33] So he hasn't got yeah, we've got, we've got hindsight on,
[1:59:36] yeah, on Lynch. It was ahead of it, yeah.
[1:59:38] Exactly we've. We can look back on it now with
[1:59:41] rules tinted glasses, I think and just go right yeah or I can
[1:59:43] see where this is coming from because we had the chance to
[1:59:46] understand them yes, since it's. Released, the films come under
[1:59:49] considerable criticism for the troubling nature of the
[1:59:51] narrative themes of sadism and masochism in the dynamic between
[1:59:54] Dorothy and Frank. About the criticism, Lynch has
[1:59:57] said. Well, I can understand that for
[1:59:59] sure, but without that relationship, there wouldn't
[2:00:01] have been a film. That's fair enough.
[2:00:03] True. Yeah, true, Yeah.
[2:00:05] That is true. And now I'm going.
[2:00:07] To hand over to Matt the stat for some numbers generated by
[2:00:11] Blue Velvet. Stat abandoned.
[2:00:12] Go for it. Stat abandoned.
[2:00:14] That's me. In the end, on a budget of $6
[2:00:18] million like we've talked about, Blue Velvet returned a very
[2:00:21] conservative $8.5 million. Critical reviews As for said
[2:00:25] they were divided at the time, but they've since given way to
[2:00:27] overwhelming prayers and it now has 91% on Rotten Tomatoes and
[2:00:31] it's got off 7.7 out of 10 on IMDb.
[2:00:36] Hugely revered now. Isn't it?
[2:00:37] Yes, it is definitely. At the Golden Globes.
[2:00:41] Lynch was nominated for his screenplay and Hopper for his
[2:00:43] support and performance. Lynch was also nominated for
[2:00:46] Best Director at the Oscars. Strange he lost out to Can you
[2:00:51] think the 87 Oscars for films from 86 Is it?
[2:00:56] Platoon, you have platoon solver Stone.
[2:00:58] Well done, Matt. There you go.
[2:00:59] Matt, the stats that Obando strikes again.
[2:01:02] The Butcher never ceases to amaze.
[2:01:04] Me that. It was more successful.
[2:01:08] On the lower rung of award ceremonies, Rossellini won an
[2:01:11] Independent Spirit Award, Lynch, Hopper, Helms and the film
[2:01:14] itself won the National Society of Film Critics awards, and it
[2:01:18] won best film at the Citrus Festival.
[2:01:20] Nice. I think representative of the
[2:01:22] disturbing nature of the film. Yeah.
[2:01:25] Yeah, that's the. Audience for it isn't.
[2:01:27] It a challenging film. One where conservative box
[2:01:30] office numbers and divisive critical response is pretty much
[2:01:32] on brand for David Lynch. Yeah, sequels and influence,
[2:01:43] obviously. No sequels to Blue?
[2:01:44] Velvet No sequels for David Lynch at all, except maybe on
[2:01:47] the small screen. Yeah, but the film's reputation
[2:01:50] is significantly increased in the years since, and it's now
[2:01:53] considered one of the greatest movies ever.
[2:01:55] It's received a number of accolades, is seen as an
[2:01:58] ultimate cult film, and has appeared on many publication
[2:02:00] Best of lists. It was even chosen by the AFI as
[2:02:04] the 8th greatest mystery flick of all time, which is quite
[2:02:08] strange to me. I think there are better pure
[2:02:10] mystery flicks out there, but to call Blue Velvet a mystery film
[2:02:13] is, I think, just to miss the point.
[2:02:16] Yeah, just a. Little bit. 5% of it, yeah.
[2:02:19] Yeah. And nevertheless, and more.
[2:02:22] Importantly, where have we seen Blue Velvet influencing?
[2:02:25] What is its legacy in the time since?
[2:02:29] I think you need look no further than Tarantino.
[2:02:31] I mentioned Pulp Fiction earlier, but the ES licensing
[2:02:33] from Reservoir Dogs. Julie.
[2:02:36] The humor and irreverent approach to human life I think
[2:02:39] in the likes of Heather's is influenced by Blue Velvet, the
[2:02:44] white picketed fenced American dream of Edward Scissorhands.
[2:02:47] With that dark underbelly at the end of it.
[2:02:50] Definitely. Yeah, it was obviously
[2:02:51] responsible for. One of the many resurgences that
[2:02:54] Dennis Hopper had in his career, and I think they cemented his
[2:02:56] reputation and longevity as an actor.
[2:02:59] Yeah, I think ultimately without Blue Velvet, or even if it
[2:03:02] hadn't been a success, if it's still there but not successful,
[2:03:05] you definitely don't get Twin Peaks a few years later.
[2:03:08] No. Which is widely regarded as the
[2:03:10] watershed moment in prestige TV. So it paved the whiff the likes
[2:03:14] of The X-Files, Sopranos, and then we're off and running The
[2:03:17] Wire, Madman, Breaking Bad, Succession, The White Lotus.
[2:03:20] Things would just look very different.
[2:03:22] Yeah, a huge impact on pop culture.
[2:03:25] It's the orgy it. Is twin.
[2:03:27] Peaks, isn't it? Yeah.
[2:03:28] What about you, Matt? Yeah.
[2:03:29] Very similar to so much. A popular culture comes back to
[2:03:32] this, from TV to cinema. I had the exact same thing
[2:03:34] written down. If you don't have to be
[2:03:36] relevant, you don't have Twin Peaks, you don't have The
[2:03:38] X-Files, you don't have Stranger Things.
[2:03:40] There you go. So much brilliant like springs
[2:03:42] from this and just the amount of film makers whose minds must
[2:03:46] have been blown apart by this is incalculable.
[2:03:51] Like the amount of film makers who would have seen this and
[2:03:53] have that realization. It doesn't have to make sense.
[2:03:56] They don't have the rules. We can do that.
[2:03:58] And those film makers, I mean the range from the likes of
[2:04:00] Large Voluntary to Robert Eggers, the films he makes a
[2:04:03] day, Donnie Darko, Richard Kelly's film was a huge
[2:04:07] influence to this one. So that's its influence, me just
[2:04:11] Lynch in general, but certainly this film in particular just
[2:04:14] belies to trio that people still follow into the day.
[2:04:16] Yeah, very much. I think so.
[2:04:19] I mean, there's some. Films that people might not
[2:04:21] think link back to this one, but they do in my mind.
[2:04:24] So I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but I want
[2:04:26] to say them anyway. I think without this, I don't
[2:04:29] think you'd have American Beauty.
[2:04:31] I think Sam Mendes got a lot in this film.
[2:04:33] I can say that right the. Iconography of it just.
[2:04:35] The vibe of it. Just everything just doesn't
[2:04:39] really. Make sense, But it is very
[2:04:40] American and has got that kind of sensibility to it.
[2:04:43] I'm going to say LA Confidential right has that kind of that
[2:04:47] murder mystery, the femme fatale, the noir elements of it.
[2:04:50] And that twist to it and. It is quite lynching and there's
[2:04:53] some moments in that that is just very bright and then it's
[2:04:55] very shadowed and then it's very contrasting and it just has the
[2:04:58] same kind of feel. And I think Memento because
[2:05:02] Nolan went into that going well, yeah, of course it's backwards.
[2:05:05] I'm going to make it backwards because Lynch made Blue Velvet
[2:05:08] forwards and that still doesn't make sense.
[2:05:10] So it has that very simplistic vibe.
[2:05:12] It has that use of of colour in the fact that it doesn't use
[2:05:15] colour at all. It goes from black and white to
[2:05:17] colour and I think that's a very lynching thing to do, to go from
[2:05:20] a race ahead straight to Blue Velvet.
[2:05:22] I think if you miss out the other two films, if you miss out
[2:05:24] The Elephant Man of Miss out June, you can go from a race
[2:05:27] ahead to Blue Velvet and kind of cut them together and it has got
[2:05:31] the same sensibility. And that reminds me of Memento
[2:05:33] some somehow. I don't know why.
[2:05:35] So that's what I get from it. It's just this sense of freedom
[2:05:38] that he gave film makers, the fearlessness, the passion that
[2:05:41] he goes into making the film that he really wants to make.
[2:05:44] And actually, you know, it made its money back.
[2:05:46] It made 8 million sure what it may have made a profit.
[2:05:49] I don't care if it's conservative or what, it's still
[2:05:51] a success in my eyes and that's absolutely fine.
[2:05:53] And to influence some of the biggest film makers that are
[2:05:56] still, they're still going today.
[2:05:57] I think it's just an incredible legacy.
[2:06:00] Yeah, it is. Yeah.
[2:06:01] I. Mean it's almost endless
[2:06:02] examples of the influence that Blue Velvet had from the late
[2:06:06] 80s, nineties onwards, and without it I think the pop
[2:06:09] cultural landscape would look very different and very boring.
[2:06:15] All the right movies ranking we're emerging out of.
[2:06:20] Geoffrey Beaumont's ear and into the sun drenched dream of Middle
[2:06:23] America. Before we go inside, it's time
[2:06:26] for our now world famous ATRM ranking.
[2:06:30] Westie, could you summarise and give us your score out of 10
[2:06:32] please? I can give you my score.
[2:06:34] Out of 10, whether I can summarise blue, though there's
[2:06:36] another. That's another.
[2:06:38] Cut the fish. We shall see.
[2:06:41] I think it's a very brave film. I think it's a very ambitious
[2:06:45] film and I think it's one that works on both of those levels.
[2:06:48] The bravery shines through and the ambition definitely shines
[2:06:50] through. I think without this, we
[2:06:52] wouldn't have the David Lynch that would know and love today.
[2:06:54] I think he needed to come back to his roots and make something
[2:06:56] that he really wanted to make. I'll bang on about that with
[2:06:59] every film that we're talking about.
[2:07:00] If it has, you know, brave direction, issue a direction and
[2:07:04] the same with the right and same with the characterization.
[2:07:06] There's things in this film that I haven't seen and will not see
[2:07:09] again. It's incredibly original, it's
[2:07:11] incredibly powerful, but it's not one that I'll go back to
[2:07:14] again and again because I think there's just too much to it that
[2:07:17] warps your mind a little bit. And there's a little bit to it
[2:07:19] that is a bit hard to watch in places that Lynch found humorous
[2:07:23] at the time. And I don't understand how that
[2:07:27] could be possible. So I maybe not tapping into it
[2:07:30] for the from the right angle, but at the same time it's a film
[2:07:33] that I really respect and I really enjoy and I will
[2:07:36] recommend it to pretty much anyone, but I won't sit with
[2:07:39] them on the watches you don't want.
[2:07:42] To be cool for that reason. Yeah, for.
[2:07:44] That reason, it's definitely up there.
[2:07:46] Not my favorite Lynch film, We'll get into that later on,
[2:07:49] but it's a definite hive one for me.
[2:07:50] So it's going to be a nine out of 10/9 out of 10.
[2:07:53] Yeah, massive. Brilliant.
[2:07:54] Yeah. Yeah.
[2:07:55] I'm full of admiration for this film.
[2:07:57] It's got so much guts and originality.
[2:07:59] David Lynch really was a unique filmmaker of which we're
[2:08:02] unlikely to see ever again. This.
[2:08:05] Film could be watched on a number of.
[2:08:06] Levels a great noir mystery, a tale of disturbed Americana, a
[2:08:10] horror flick, a coming of age story, an edible nightmare.
[2:08:14] And that's the beauty of the film.
[2:08:15] You can come back to retirement again and get something
[2:08:17] different. Yeah.
[2:08:18] But the setting, the performances by Rossellini and
[2:08:21] Hopper, the disturbing narrative, there's nothing like
[2:08:24] it in mainstream cinema. And it never fails to captivate
[2:08:26] me. Just like pure guts.
[2:08:29] It's a 10 for me all the way. Nice.
[2:08:32] OK. Adore the film?
[2:08:34] What about you, Matt? With this one I think.
[2:08:36] We've really, like stripped it back as far as we can to see
[2:08:39] what's under the hood and try to make sense of it, and there is
[2:08:43] preciously left to be said about it.
[2:08:44] I really wish I could have been old enough to see this back in
[2:08:47] the day, completely unaware of what it was, unaware of its
[2:08:50] reputation. Because even if you had seen
[2:08:52] what Lynch had done before this, even even areas ahead, this must
[2:08:56] have felt like something from an old universe.
[2:08:58] Because ultimately, that's what it is.
[2:09:00] It's a reflection of our world, but spun on its head, with all
[2:09:03] the dark and dirty little secrets behind the supposedly
[2:09:06] perfect facade of life tumbling out.
[2:09:08] And what really struck me coming back to it for this, though, is
[2:09:11] that for all the darkness, all the horror, all the sexual
[2:09:13] violence, it's an incredibly entertaining film.
[2:09:16] At the same time, it is for something that justifiably could
[2:09:19] be called art house. It works.
[2:09:22] As a thriller. Incredibly well.
[2:09:25] It's never been an all time favorite of mine because it's
[2:09:27] not something I can watch on a regular basis.
[2:09:30] I need to take a bit of a deep breath before watch it, but
[2:09:33] having said that, I think this is just one of those cases where
[2:09:35] that doesn't really factor into my score forward because it's a
[2:09:39] singular film from a singular film maker.
[2:09:42] I still think it's his best film, so it can't be anything
[2:09:45] other than a 10 for me. Wow, Very good.
[2:09:48] Yeah. Big.
[2:09:48] Scores all around. I love that our 4th and final
[2:09:52] score for Blue Velvet comes from our followers on X.
[2:09:55] Now, you can imagine with a film like this, there was a a mixed
[2:09:58] response. Yeah.
[2:10:01] Here. Are some comments that I've
[2:10:02] picked out. 1st from an Aegis of Infinite Face Palms at Roy Cook.
[2:10:08] They said My absolute number one film of all time.
[2:10:10] I've bought it on physical media so many times it's embarrassing.
[2:10:13] Every time I watch it I find something new.
[2:10:16] Not surprising. Brilliant this.
[2:10:18] Charmless Man at Jimmy Bob said. I'll say it.
[2:10:22] Magnificent movie that introduced Lynchianism into the
[2:10:25] public consciousness, but it didn't really stick the landing.
[2:10:28] I've seen it multiple times, but I still have to look up the wiki
[2:10:31] article to remind myself how it ends.
[2:10:34] Really. That may be a lack of
[2:10:37] concentration to be honest. More than anything, yeah.
[2:10:41] And on the negative. Side of things clocking out at
[2:10:44] free timex watch said one. I had no idea what anything was
[2:10:49] supposed to mean. It was weird and the scene where
[2:10:51] the guy goes insane on the girl weird me out the most.
[2:10:54] Maybe I need to read about it or something.
[2:10:57] Well, listen, this podcast clocking out, that's what you
[2:10:59] should do. There you go, I'll show.
[2:11:01] You, that's your mind changed, and I think Lynch would have.
[2:11:04] Loved his response as well. Yeah, yeah.
[2:11:08] Now this was the most balanced. Score I think we've ever, ever,
[2:11:12] ever had on Twitter slash X. As you know, our poll for the
[2:11:16] film is a choice between 1098 and 7X.
[2:11:19] Doesn't allow any more than four choices on the poll, and at the
[2:11:22] halfway point with hundreds of votes cast, there were a few
[2:11:26] comments drawn attention to the fact that there was an exact
[2:11:29] four way split. 10987 all had 25% of the votes.
[2:11:34] Wow, really? You can't get any.
[2:11:36] More lynchy in than that. Can you?
[2:11:38] There's the balance. For you love it so based on.
[2:11:41] All of that information, fellas. How do you think Blue Velvet
[2:11:43] scored out of 10 on X? Oh, God knows.
[2:11:45] Now I have no idea. I'd go higher.
[2:11:49] Up though, I'd say 8. I mean before all that.
[2:11:52] I'd have said 10 because people love it, but obviously they
[2:11:55] don't. I'll stick to me guns.
[2:11:56] I'll I'll go 10, then 10, no. No, no, that's a cannon.
[2:12:01] That's not the case. It is.
[2:12:03] It got an 8. Well done, Westie.
[2:12:05] Very nice, very divisive film. Clearly.
[2:12:08] I don't think that surprised me in the slightest, to be honest.
[2:12:11] Because. Fair enough.
[2:12:12] Yeah. Yeah, it's a tough one.
[2:12:13] Tough sale. So overall, including X and our
[2:12:18] three scores, Blue Velvet got a score of 37 out of 40, right?
[2:12:22] Yeah. Very impressive score.
[2:12:25] Join us again in all the right movies.
[2:12:27] And in two weeks, John, Westie and Matt will be going behind
[2:12:29] the scenes on QTS Tinseltown set, modern classic Once Upon a
[2:12:33] Time in Hollywood. Shoes and socks off for that
[2:12:35] one, fellas. Yeah, yeah, get me flame
[2:12:37] throughout. Yeah.
[2:12:41] Those hippies are going to regret it.
[2:12:42] And they just. Looking forward to that one,
[2:12:45] yeah. Loads of laughs.
[2:12:46] And if you haven't had enough of.
[2:12:47] Psychosexual, Phantasmagorical, Lynchy and Nightmares.
[2:12:51] Sign up to us on Patreon, where we'll be talking about two more
[2:12:54] films from the great man. The straight story.
[2:13:00] And Mulholland Dr. That'll be a double feature at the end of
[2:13:04] March. My apologies.
[2:13:06] That's worth. Signing up on Parent just for
[2:13:09] that episode. I have to.
[2:13:10] That's going to be. It's going to be something
[2:13:12] interesting, something. Yeah, interesting.
[2:13:14] Get access to that. And the watch list by signing up
[2:13:17] to be an ATR and patron at patreon.com/all the right
[2:13:21] movies. Yeah, outside of those podcasts,
[2:13:23] the regular episodes of Showreel coming out every two weeks.
[2:13:26] Alternative to this show and we'll continue to bang the drum.
[2:13:29] But if you're a fan of the show, please find it in your hearts to
[2:13:32] take 60 seconds out of your schedule and give us a positive
[2:13:34] rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pod Chaser, or anywhere
[2:13:38] that you listen to this podcast. It takes no time at all, but
[2:13:41] it'll mean the world to us. Five stars all the way.
[2:13:43] Five stars is is good. Idea.
[2:13:45] Yeah, that's that's the best idea.
[2:13:47] It's the only idea. Yeah.
[2:13:49] In between all of our podcasts. We are active on social media
[2:13:52] daily. On X we are at 80 right movies
[2:13:55] where our making of movie threads go down a storm on a
[2:13:57] daily basis. Just like our podcast, they tell
[2:14:00] the making of story from classic and hit films.
[2:14:02] And just like our podcasts, all the behind the scenes stories we
[2:14:04] tell come from the cast and crew or is verified by at least three
[2:14:08] sources. So if you haven't read it
[2:14:10] already, get in there. You will be entertained
[2:14:13] absolutely on. Instagram and Threads we.
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[2:14:17] Our threads are also on Threads and they're on Blue Sky where we
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[2:14:24] right movies. We also have a Facebook group
[2:14:26] where there is some great movie chats by great people.
[2:14:29] Yeah, sure is. Yes.
[2:14:30] And we are on YouTube as. Well watch our videos if you
[2:14:33] can. A follow and a like would be
[2:14:35] much appreciated. youtube.com/all the right
[2:14:38] movies. Yes, thank you guys.
[2:14:40] And our website, alltherightmovies.com, that, oh,
[2:14:45] is a wrap everyone. It's a wrap.
[2:14:47] We're off to grab ourselves. A couple of Heinekens come back
[2:14:50] in two weeks for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
[2:14:52] Until then, you stay alive, baby.
[2:14:56] Hide again. Heineken Little.
[2:14:58] Ribbon. Thanks everyone.
[2:15:02] Thanks guys. Hey neighbor, you shit for
[2:15:27] brains man. You forgot to have a police
[2:15:29] radio.

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