# Jared Woods | Who (Or What) Was Jesus Christ? Exploration of Several Christ Conspiracies

An episode of [Forbidden Knowledge News](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1470192028), 27 Jul 2026, 1 h 02 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/73199441/fknepisodesjwoods_hd_720p_medium_fr30_27072026.mp3

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## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: I think it's just going to get weirder and weirder
[0:04] Speaker 1: and weirder, and finally it's going to be so weird
[0:08] Speaker 1: that people are going to have to talk about how
[0:10] Speaker 1: weird it is. Welcome back to Forbidden Knowledge News. I'm
[0:14] Speaker 1: your host Chris Matthew. Today my guest is Jared Woods.
[0:18] Speaker 1: Be sure and check out our merchshop. Amazing shirt designs.
[0:21] Speaker 1: We've got shirts from the films as well. I am
[0:24] Speaker 1: wearing the Doors of Perception shirt right here. Use the
[0:27] Speaker 1: link right in the description to go check those out.
[0:30] Speaker 1: We've even got hoodies going up as we speak. Check
[0:34] Speaker 1: out my films I call Louisiana's on to be Doors
[0:37] Speaker 1: of Perception on Amazon Prime. I am booking guests for September.
[0:42] Speaker 1: If you have suggestions or you'd like to be a guest,
[0:45] Speaker 1: email me Forbidden Knowledgenews at gmail dot com. Today I
[0:49] Speaker 1: want to welcome Jared Woods. He is an author, artist, traveler,
[0:53] Speaker 1: and theological researcher. Jared, welcome.
[0:56] Speaker 2: How you doing, mates, I'm so good, so s happy
[0:59] Speaker 2: to be Christen having a wonderful day. So it's good
[1:02] Speaker 2: to see him.
[1:02] Speaker 1: Man, yeah, man, looking forward to this. We're going to
[1:05] Speaker 1: be getting into your book Jesus Was a Shape Shifting
[1:08] Speaker 1: Alien and twenty two other Christ Conspiracies. It's a collection
[1:13] Speaker 1: of esoteric and occult themed theories exploring what you call
[1:17] Speaker 1: Christ conspiracies, which includes the classic gnostic Christ, the mystery
[1:23] Speaker 1: cult possibilities, even ancient alien interpretations. In my personal journey,
[1:29] Speaker 1: the teachings of Christ have been such a powerful spiritual
[1:34] Speaker 1: foundation in my perspective, it doesn't really matter if he
[1:38] Speaker 1: was an alien or an archetype or a man. His
[1:42] Speaker 1: teachings have impacted humanity in an extremely powerful way, and
[1:47] Speaker 1: I'm very open minded as to who or what Jesus
[1:50] Speaker 1: really was. You seem to have covered all the possibility,
[1:54] Speaker 1: so looking forward to getting into this. Before we do,
[1:57] Speaker 1: this is your first time on tell us a little
[1:59] Speaker 1: bit about your yourself and let the audience know how
[2:01] Speaker 1: they can find more.
[2:03] Speaker 2: Great Well, thank you for that excellent introduction, mate, And
[2:07] Speaker 2: a little bit about myself. My background is in I'm
[2:11] Speaker 2: an author, so I've written quite a few books on
[2:14] Speaker 2: various topics, from self help to music related topics, but
[2:19] Speaker 2: my passion has always been comparative religion. So I spend
[2:24] Speaker 2: once a year I read a holy text. So whether
[2:27] Speaker 2: that be the Corona, or the Bible, or the Satanic
[2:29] Speaker 2: Bible or the Scientology. You know, every year, for the
[2:32] Speaker 2: last I believe it's eleven years now, I've read one
[2:35] Speaker 2: of those. At the same time, I travel full time.
[2:38] Speaker 2: I'm very fortunate as being an author. All I need
[2:40] Speaker 2: is WiFi so I can get to explore the world,
[2:43] Speaker 2: and I've used that. I mostly select the locations that
[2:48] Speaker 2: are extremely potent with their spiritual reputations, for example India
[2:54] Speaker 2: or Central Australia or South America. You know, I've done
[2:58] Speaker 2: pretty well with my travels extensively, and so all of
[3:03] Speaker 2: that kind of feeds into my passion for writing about theology.
[3:08] Speaker 2: Last year I had a kind of what I thought
[3:12] Speaker 2: was a really good idea. I rewrote the story of
[3:16] Speaker 2: Christ the four Gospels as one timeline, and I also
[3:21] Speaker 2: added two hundred and fifty non canonical texts that speak
[3:24] Speaker 2: about Jesus's story, the Gnostics ones, of course, and then
[3:27] Speaker 2: other ones that vary in like debatable with the authenticeship,
[3:34] Speaker 2: but the authenticity rather. But the idea was not to
[3:38] Speaker 2: present what I say is the most factual presentation of Jesus.
[3:42] Speaker 2: But the idea was to give the most thorough story
[3:44] Speaker 2: of Jesus. I wanted to make sure that everything that's
[3:46] Speaker 2: ever been kind of said about it or hypothesize was there,
[3:49] Speaker 2: even when contradictory. I'll say that some people say this,
[3:51] Speaker 2: some people say that anyway, on this great mission that
[3:54] Speaker 2: was really just taught me so much about Jesus, who
[3:56] Speaker 2: I am a huge fan of. Despite not being completely Christian.
[4:01] Speaker 2: I did find a lot of strange works. For example,
[4:04] Speaker 2: Jesus was an Alien was a theory that I just
[4:06] Speaker 2: did not feel was scholarly enough to put into what
[4:10] Speaker 2: was supposed to be a very serious work. So when
[4:12] Speaker 2: I finished what I called the Gospel of Christ last year,
[4:14] Speaker 2: I had all these kind of very interesting theories that
[4:17] Speaker 2: just couldn't fit into a serious narrative. And then I
[4:20] Speaker 2: was like, well, actually I should. This is actually an
[4:22] Speaker 2: even better book to compile these together, these very in depth,
[4:26] Speaker 2: strange and sometimes you know, sometimes they're really out there,
[4:29] Speaker 2: but sometimes they does feel like there's something to them,
[4:33] Speaker 2: and just put them in one place and without an agenda,
[4:36] Speaker 2: I argue foreign against each theory, and just to present
[4:39] Speaker 2: them as like a complete collection, and I think that,
[4:42] Speaker 2: you know, it is really a testament to Jesus that
[4:44] Speaker 2: I managed to find twenty three very distinct conspiracy theories.
[4:48] Speaker 2: It just shows how wide his influences and how much
[4:52] Speaker 2: attention and fascination there is with the story two thousand
[4:55] Speaker 2: years later, that there's still so much content to write
[4:58] Speaker 2: a book like this right on.
[5:01] Speaker 1: Man and you mentioned that you're not particularly Christian.
[5:06] Speaker 2: Do you have.
[5:07] Speaker 1: Any spiritual leanings or particular lens that you viewed everything through?
[5:14] Speaker 2: Yes, I am. I am. I'd like to say that
[5:17] Speaker 2: I'm spiritual. It's taken me a long time of soul
[5:21] Speaker 2: seeking and, as I say, a lot of travels to
[5:23] Speaker 2: really define what that is for me. And I think
[5:25] Speaker 2: I've found something that makes sense to me and is
[5:28] Speaker 2: quite unique. But for me there is I do find
[5:33] Speaker 2: what I love about comparative religion is finding what the differences,
[5:38] Speaker 2: because that justifies their existences. Each religion has to be different,
[5:41] Speaker 2: otherwise they'll be redundant, but more importantly the similarities. And
[5:45] Speaker 2: I just am so fascinated with how so similar every
[5:49] Speaker 2: religion really is when you get down to not what
[5:51] Speaker 2: the organizations say and not what people have developed and
[5:55] Speaker 2: denominations developed, but what the profits all said really is
[5:59] Speaker 2: very much in tune with each other, and so that's
[6:02] Speaker 2: what fascinates me. So when it comes to writing by Jesus,
[6:05] Speaker 2: it's really is through the lens of Jesus. I think
[6:08] Speaker 2: for good reason that Christianity as the most popular religion
[6:12] Speaker 2: in the world is because as teachings were revolutionary and
[6:15] Speaker 2: also incredibly you know, forgiving and kind and you know
[6:21] Speaker 2: things that's still the world desperately needs. And even people
[6:25] Speaker 2: who call themselves Christians are not following as well as
[6:28] Speaker 2: we would hope. So there's still there's still you know,
[6:31] Speaker 2: we have still not even exhausted the power of Christ
[6:34] Speaker 2: even remotely in our current age. Right.
[6:38] Speaker 1: Another aspect I would add is that they're very easy
[6:41] Speaker 1: for most people to understand the concept behind the teachings.
[6:46] Speaker 1: It just adds to I believe the power and the
[6:49] Speaker 1: popularity of Jesus christ teachings. Let's go through some of
[6:54] Speaker 1: the chapters, some of the theories that you've come up with,
[6:58] Speaker 1: see what comes out. We could start with Jesus was
[7:02] Speaker 1: a shape shifting alien.
[7:04] Speaker 2: Yes, so, I mean, this is an interesting theory. But
[7:08] Speaker 2: I think the best thing is that as a title,
[7:10] Speaker 2: it's very it grabs your attention. Already there's been a
[7:13] Speaker 2: bit of pushback on we're going to imagine you can't
[7:18] Speaker 2: matter of course, But I just always want to remind
[7:20] Speaker 2: people the best thing to do is read the book.
[7:22] Speaker 2: You'll find that I present the case on both sides,
[7:24] Speaker 2: and these are theories that pre existed. It's not like
[7:26] Speaker 2: I'm making them up, right, But yeah, I think the
[7:29] Speaker 2: you know, I know on your show you've spoken about
[7:32] Speaker 2: this type of thing before. The Nephilim is obviously so
[7:35] Speaker 2: aliens and the watches have all been tied to Biblical
[7:39] Speaker 2: mythology anyway, so there's already that. So I do start
[7:42] Speaker 2: with that. I start with how there was possibly these
[7:46] Speaker 2: these watches that came and bred with women and then
[7:49] Speaker 2: the Nephlim were born, and that was kind of the
[7:51] Speaker 2: missing Lincoln away. But how a lot of scholars now
[7:55] Speaker 2: are leaning, especially more scientifically inclined scholars, are leaning closer
[7:59] Speaker 2: to towards the idea that these weren't angels, but there were aliens.
[8:04] Speaker 2: And you know, there's lots of different scripture you can
[8:09] Speaker 2: talk about. One of the most famous ones, I guess
[8:11] Speaker 2: is like how biblically accurate aliens are described as wheels
[8:15] Speaker 2: within wheels within wheels, which is a technological thing rather
[8:18] Speaker 2: than anything you would associate with angels. So from there
[8:21] Speaker 2: I built into the idea that if that's the case,
[8:26] Speaker 2: and every angel sighting or experience could possibly be looked
[8:31] Speaker 2: through the lens of alien then we were talking about
[8:36] Speaker 2: we talk about Mother Mary. We took about how the
[8:39] Speaker 2: imactive conception was actually if you look at it was
[8:42] Speaker 2: an artificial insemination and the fact that she was there
[8:46] Speaker 2: was no intercourse. There was an insemination without intercourse. So
[8:49] Speaker 2: that is an artificial insemination, which a lot of people
[8:52] Speaker 2: put that would you know, they say that aliens have
[8:54] Speaker 2: been doing that. Anyway, the Star of Bethfieldhem appeared with
[8:58] Speaker 2: the birth of Jesus, and he was a a child
[9:01] Speaker 2: that you know, had exceptional powers from from the beginning,
[9:06] Speaker 2: you know, so really there was this kind of this
[9:07] Speaker 2: otherworldly aspect to it. But of course I think one
[9:11] Speaker 2: of the major things was, well, you know, what's really
[9:13] Speaker 2: interesting actually is that the Gospel of Mark, which is
[9:16] Speaker 2: the first gospel. You know, we had this wonderful uh
[9:21] Speaker 2: story of Mary and the virgin birth, but that is
[9:23] Speaker 2: actually quite late. It was many many decades after the
[9:25] Speaker 2: fact that Matthew and Luke brought those two two up.
[9:31] Speaker 2: But the first gospel that we know of is called
[9:35] Speaker 2: Mark is Mark's one, and that and Jesus just appears
[9:39] Speaker 2: as as already a full grown man and starts as ministry.
[9:42] Speaker 2: There's actually another gospel that has since been lost, but
[9:45] Speaker 2: it's it's the Gospel of I'd never not to say
[9:48] Speaker 2: this name, and I'm so apologized, but because I only
[9:50] Speaker 2: have read it. It's like Marcion or Marchion or something
[9:52] Speaker 2: like that. But it's a he was a guy who
[9:54] Speaker 2: they believed just rewrote Luke. But their scholars now that
[9:58] Speaker 2: have a theory called the marsh Priority theory, and they
[10:01] Speaker 2: believe that it was actually before or the other gospels.
[10:04] Speaker 2: And in that gospel, Jesus floats down from the sky
[10:08] Speaker 2: as an adult man and begins his ministry. So again
[10:11] Speaker 2: that kind of ties into Okay, something's coming from you know,
[10:13] Speaker 2: in the olden days you see something from the sky,
[10:16] Speaker 2: you think heavens. Now that we are kind of moving
[10:19] Speaker 2: away from these mythological ideas and more into science, coming
[10:21] Speaker 2: from the sky, we know that space. So again it
[10:24] Speaker 2: kind of ties into this from above. And always it's
[10:27] Speaker 2: a voice from above. It's always Jesus on the right
[10:29] Speaker 2: hand of God on the clouds. So there's always these kind.
[10:33] Speaker 1: Of So you say, the earliest writings about Christ don't
[10:40] Speaker 1: acknowledge his birth or any event surrounding it at all.
[10:44] Speaker 2: Absolutely, the very very first writings we have of Christianity
[10:48] Speaker 2: was the Poor Apostle Letters, which actually don't deal with
[10:52] Speaker 2: Jesus's life at all. There was just poor He kind
[10:55] Speaker 2: of spoke, he was trying to he was trying to
[10:58] Speaker 2: kind of iron out the logical disputes and kind of
[11:02] Speaker 2: build up more of a like an organizational aspect of Christianity.
[11:08] Speaker 2: So it took it took a couple of decades before
[11:10] Speaker 2: we got Mark. But yeah, as I said, the Gospel
[11:12] Speaker 2: of Mark, the earliest of the four Gospels, that was
[11:15] Speaker 2: zero mention of of of Mary I think was mentioned
[11:21] Speaker 2: as a name, but never as a virgin birth, and
[11:24] Speaker 2: never as as a mother, which you think would be included,
[11:26] Speaker 2: because that is quite a bit, quite a giant aspect
[11:28] Speaker 2: of of what was so miraculous about his life. But
[11:33] Speaker 2: you know, it took, it took another couple of decades.
[11:35] Speaker 2: I wish I had the exact numbers, but I would
[11:37] Speaker 2: estimate six or seven even maybe longer than that. Decades
[11:42] Speaker 2: before the virgin birth was first mentioned in the Luke
[11:46] Speaker 2: or Matthew. But as I say, there were other texts
[11:48] Speaker 2: that were our hYP hypothesized to be as early as
[11:52] Speaker 2: Mark that spoke about Jesus just coming from the sky
[11:55] Speaker 2: as a full grown man.
[11:56] Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, you sign another interesting point that oftentimes
[12:02] Speaker 1: Jesus was unrecognizable to those that were closest to him.
[12:07] Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about that.
[12:09] Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, exactly, I'm so glad that's exactly. The next
[12:12] Speaker 2: point was, because you know, these days, a lot of
[12:14] Speaker 2: these kind of David Iike types of conspiracy theories speak
[12:19] Speaker 2: about how it's we have shape shifting aliens among us
[12:23] Speaker 2: right now. So that's a common theory, and so you know,
[12:27] Speaker 2: and then there's a lot of shape shifting evidence inside
[12:32] Speaker 2: and outside the Bible of Jesus. The most famous ones were,
[12:36] Speaker 2: for example, when he first resurrected, Mary Magdalen was by
[12:42] Speaker 2: the tomb. It was empty. She runs straight, almost knocks
[12:48] Speaker 2: into the gardener. She accuses the gardener of stealing the body.
[12:52] Speaker 2: The gardener says, Mary, it's me. And then only then
[12:55] Speaker 2: she goes, oh, this this is Jesus. There is also
[12:58] Speaker 2: a very famous one, of course, I mean, Jesus was
[13:01] Speaker 2: a huge figure with a massive following, the most famous
[13:05] Speaker 2: person in Jerusalem, they would say at the time. And
[13:07] Speaker 2: yet Jesus said to the I mean Judas said to
[13:11] Speaker 2: the Jewish priests, the man that I kiss is the
[13:14] Speaker 2: man you need to arrest, because otherwise they wouldn't recognize
[13:17] Speaker 2: him because he only the disciples could see which one
[13:19] Speaker 2: he was. He had to kiss the guy and to
[13:21] Speaker 2: identify him so they could take him away. And there's
[13:23] Speaker 2: many other examples after the resurrec after the you know,
[13:27] Speaker 2: during the resurrection, I wish I could remember. There's two apostles.
[13:30] Speaker 2: One of them is nameless and the other has a
[13:32] Speaker 2: name I've forgotten. But they walked from Jerusalem to the
[13:34] Speaker 2: next town. A man walks with them the whole way,
[13:37] Speaker 2: and they chat the whole way. They sit down, they
[13:39] Speaker 2: have a meal, and when this stranger breaks the bread,
[13:42] Speaker 2: they realizes Jesus and he disappears. So these are curious
[13:46] Speaker 2: day biblical in the Gospels, instances of Jesus changing shape,
[13:52] Speaker 2: and this is not This is very very prevalent across
[13:59] Speaker 2: a lot of scripture, like a non canonical scripture. There's
[14:02] Speaker 2: there's stories of him changing shape in front of people unrecognizable,
[14:07] Speaker 2: there's a there's the transfiguration of don't if you remember
[14:10] Speaker 2: that story. He's on a mountain and he kind of
[14:11] Speaker 2: glows white. I think, I think it's like what I
[14:14] Speaker 2: wish I could remember. But one of the non canonical
[14:16] Speaker 2: gospels talks about how he changes into a short, old man.
[14:21] Speaker 2: So yeah, there's, there's, there's, there's there's lots of very
[14:24] Speaker 2: strange things going on there, whatever that might mean.
[14:29] Speaker 1: I love that you did this because, as it is,
[14:32] Speaker 1: there is infinite ways to interpret biblical scripture and spiritual stories.
[14:39] Speaker 1: So breaking down just the stories about Jesus gives a
[14:44] Speaker 1: more focused lens for people to look at things.
[14:48] Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And I think like one thing that I
[14:51] Speaker 2: do constantly go back to in the book is that
[14:55] Speaker 2: there's so many occasions where someone like the Romans or
[15:02] Speaker 2: people like the Jewish priests at the time, you know,
[15:07] Speaker 2: a couple of decades after his death, it would be
[15:09] Speaker 2: so easy for them to say that this guy didn't exist,
[15:12] Speaker 2: he was made up. But instead, it's like every story,
[15:16] Speaker 2: no matter whether you think it's an alien or whether
[15:18] Speaker 2: you think it's a sorcerer, it's always he was some historical,
[15:21] Speaker 2: extremely powerful figure with all these stories that revolve around
[15:26] Speaker 2: him that a lot of people deny his existence today,
[15:29] Speaker 2: but that's a very very recent development. For thousands of years,
[15:33] Speaker 2: I was never even brought up really as a question.
[15:36] Speaker 2: It was always trying to explain his powers, rather than
[15:39] Speaker 2: say this guy was made up. So I think all
[15:42] Speaker 2: these stories are kind of a testament to at least
[15:45] Speaker 2: some figure who had an incredible abilities.
[15:49] Speaker 1: Well, let's get into some many that I've never heard of,
[15:53] Speaker 1: and I'm sure men in the audience haven't either. Jesus
[15:56] Speaker 1: was a holographic time traveler.
[16:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's the That's the second chapter.
[16:03] Speaker 2: And I think there's there's a lot of similarities between
[16:05] Speaker 2: the first and second chapter, but there is the reason
[16:09] Speaker 2: why I put those together, was why I split as
[16:12] Speaker 2: a part, is because I feel like there was enough
[16:14] Speaker 2: distinction to justify it. So, first of all, Jesus was
[16:18] Speaker 2: a prophet in the purest sense. He predicted many many things.
[16:21] Speaker 2: He predicted, you know, he predicted his death, He predicted
[16:26] Speaker 2: the fall of the temple, which happened forty years after
[16:30] Speaker 2: his death, and he wish that's not even in the
[16:34] Speaker 2: Bible that that was That's a historical fact, the Romans
[16:37] Speaker 2: destroyed it. And I think to me, the most incredible
[16:41] Speaker 2: thing that that was predicted by Jesus according to the scripture,
[16:44] Speaker 2: was he said that everyone to the ends of the
[16:46] Speaker 2: earth will know my name. That's still that's like never
[16:50] Speaker 2: been true. It's as true still today as that was.
[16:52] Speaker 2: And that's a bold thing for someone who was in
[16:54] Speaker 2: a very limited geographical position with a couple of thousand
[16:57] Speaker 2: followers to declare, now is in here with seven billion
[17:01] Speaker 2: people and you know, everyone who is, you know, past
[17:06] Speaker 2: a certain age has probably heard his name of you know,
[17:09] Speaker 2: you're looking at billions of billions of people know him.
[17:11] Speaker 2: So that was an incredible prediction. Another thing about that
[17:14] Speaker 2: about why he might be a time traveler is that
[17:19] Speaker 2: he's thought. He was so progressive in what he is,
[17:24] Speaker 2: what he taught. He talked for forgiveness, he talked dignity
[17:27] Speaker 2: between people, he talked, he talked like yeah, no, non violence.
[17:32] Speaker 2: These things were incredibly forward thinking at the time when
[17:35] Speaker 2: they were living, and you know, and and and jerusal
[17:39] Speaker 2: the time, it was a very unforgiving, brutal society. And
[17:43] Speaker 2: so he came from this quiet, forward thinking place. But
[17:47] Speaker 2: the hologrammic aspect is actually incredibly interesting as well. So
[17:52] Speaker 2: so going back to Mary and the gardener, she tries
[17:55] Speaker 2: to touch him and he says, don't touch me. But
[17:57] Speaker 2: you can't touch me because I haven't haven't quite yet
[17:59] Speaker 2: like fully formed. There's something to that effect, which I
[18:02] Speaker 2: thought was really good, and I actually just wanted to
[18:05] Speaker 2: pull this up because there is. Yeah, there's a there's
[18:10] Speaker 2: a non canonical uh uh, a scripture called the Acts
[18:15] Speaker 2: of John, and he talks about he says, sometimes when
[18:19] Speaker 2: I would lay hold of him, I met with a
[18:21] Speaker 2: material and solid body. And at other times, again when
[18:24] Speaker 2: I felt him, the substance was immaterial, as if it
[18:27] Speaker 2: existed not at all. So he was talking about how
[18:30] Speaker 2: you would touch him in his hand and go through him.
[18:31] Speaker 2: There's also on that in that same scripture that he
[18:34] Speaker 2: he Jesus was walking in there's no footprints. Everyone leaves
[18:37] Speaker 2: for foot Princeville, but Jesus. So these are the kind
[18:40] Speaker 2: of things that lend itself to how he would sometimes
[18:43] Speaker 2: appear and disappear, how he could walk on water, these
[18:47] Speaker 2: types of things.
[18:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, some of the wildest, most interesting stories come
[18:52] Speaker 1: from the non canonical books from both times.
[18:57] Speaker 2: They're they're great Yeah. Yeah, sometimes it's like you kind
[19:01] Speaker 2: of wish they're included in the Bible, and sometimes you
[19:03] Speaker 2: realize why they weren't included in the Bible because it's
[19:06] Speaker 2: just really weird.
[19:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, when it comes to Jesus being a time traveler,
[19:13] Speaker 1: this would also mesh with why the story of Christ
[19:18] Speaker 1: essentially repeats through different historical periods throughout different theological beliefs.
[19:25] Speaker 1: Many argue the details, but when you step back and
[19:29] Speaker 1: look at the story as a whole, it's almost exactly
[19:32] Speaker 1: the same throughout different time periods.
[19:35] Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I think that is so fascinating and something
[19:39] Speaker 2: that I'm just so interested in. I think, you know,
[19:43] Speaker 2: you get the kind of zeitgeist version of that, where
[19:45] Speaker 2: it's all like a mythology that's been repeated. But I
[19:48] Speaker 2: think there's there's this very interesting idea I don't know
[19:51] Speaker 2: if you're aware of. There's a relusion could be high
[19:53] Speaker 2: faith and there is story is that there's kind of
[19:56] Speaker 2: a you can call it Christ consciousness, so you can
[19:58] Speaker 2: call it the Buddha or whatever you want to call it,
[20:01] Speaker 2: but there is this kind of repetitive energy that that
[20:04] Speaker 2: comes into the world every time. There's kind of a
[20:06] Speaker 2: spiritual imbalance and it comes to rectify this. And Jesus
[20:11] Speaker 2: actually does mention kind of like this in a way,
[20:13] Speaker 2: he's going back to the time traveling thing in the Bible.
[20:16] Speaker 2: One of the reasons why they really turned against him
[20:19] Speaker 2: was he speaks about how he was there with Moses.
[20:23] Speaker 2: He talks about how he was there from the beginning
[20:24] Speaker 2: of time, how he knew Abraham, which is kind of
[20:28] Speaker 2: indication of this kind of rebirth process. And and yeah,
[20:33] Speaker 2: again it's like the high Faith, you know, believes so
[20:40] Speaker 2: these the extents to people like Confucius, extents to Mohammed,
[20:46] Speaker 2: to certain Native American tribe leaders. So yeah, I love
[20:54] Speaker 2: to believe that that there's this type of that that
[20:57] Speaker 2: Jesus is one thing. Jesus was a manifestation a human
[21:00] Speaker 2: and at a certain point in period and history, but
[21:02] Speaker 2: that Christ was different. Christ was a title which is
[21:05] Speaker 2: actually an anointed title. It's the anointed one that actually
[21:08] Speaker 2: is continuously repeated because Christ has said Jesus said time
[21:12] Speaker 2: and time again, I will come again, and people are like,
[21:15] Speaker 2: he never came back. But it's like, because you're waiting
[21:16] Speaker 2: for Jesus, you're waiting for a human to come again.
[21:18] Speaker 2: That's not how it works. Perhaps perhaps he's talking about
[21:21] Speaker 2: a christ energy that actually has come back and we
[21:24] Speaker 2: just don't we just don't register it. It's a theory, you know,
[21:27] Speaker 2: but I enjoyed the idea.
[21:30] Speaker 1: He also made several predictions that have come to pass
[21:34] Speaker 1: which could also indicate the time travel aspect as well.
[21:38] Speaker 2: Right, definitely, no, No, he made loads of those, But
[21:41] Speaker 2: he also made a couple of My biggest thing about
[21:46] Speaker 2: the time traveler thing as an argument against it, is
[21:51] Speaker 2: that Christianity there's been so much death in the name
[21:55] Speaker 2: of it. There's been so many people who have distorted it.
[21:57] Speaker 2: They've weaponized Jesus for all stars of hatred towards demographics
[22:03] Speaker 2: of people, and I find it kind of weird, Like
[22:06] Speaker 2: maybe you know, if Jesus was a time traveler, he
[22:08] Speaker 2: might be like, Hm, I need to reword this a
[22:10] Speaker 2: little bit stronger so people don't mess this up where
[22:15] Speaker 2: they Yeah, there's been just a lot of you know,
[22:17] Speaker 2: I think for the majority of Christians, it's been a
[22:22] Speaker 2: very beneficial religion, but they're just unfortunately there has just
[22:26] Speaker 2: been so much pain caused by it. But every religion,
[22:29] Speaker 2: I guess is has its faults.
[22:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, you also pose the question, could his miracles be
[22:36] Speaker 1: misunderstood science even in our modern age. As time goes on,
[22:41] Speaker 1: several things that we once considered to be miracles are
[22:46] Speaker 1: woo woo or mystical now we understand as a form
[22:51] Speaker 1: of science. And I'm sure ten twenty years from now
[22:54] Speaker 1: we will see those things differently than we see them now.
[22:57] Speaker 1: But that also could connect with the time travel theory
[23:01] Speaker 1: as well.
[23:04] Speaker 2: Absolutely, definitely, definitely, yeah, yeah, no, he yeah, he was
[23:08] Speaker 2: I mean, above all else, Jesus was a healer. That
[23:11] Speaker 2: was his number one miracle that he performed. So you know,
[23:17] Speaker 2: he could just could really just be put down to
[23:20] Speaker 2: advanced understanding of surgery, understanding of medicine, and so yeah,
[23:29] Speaker 2: not quite sure how he brought certain characters back to life. Yeah,
[23:34] Speaker 2: but that's that's a good one. We still haven't caught
[23:37] Speaker 2: up with that one just so yet.
[23:38] Speaker 1: We also know that in our modern age there's a
[23:42] Speaker 1: lot of psychological manipulation in what we would consider the
[23:47] Speaker 1: occult in dark arts, and I think that's been implemented
[23:51] Speaker 1: into our technology in many different ways which most people
[23:56] Speaker 1: just look at now as part of technology, are part
[24:00] Speaker 1: of human psychology. But our psychological states can be manipulated
[24:06] Speaker 1: to a point where we have no idea if what
[24:10] Speaker 1: we're seeing is real or not. And that's just based
[24:14] Speaker 1: off of what we're subjected to today with our technology. So
[24:18] Speaker 1: if he had these mystical abilities, if he really did
[24:22] Speaker 1: study mystery schools and these different esoteric concepts, I'm sure
[24:27] Speaker 1: he would have a great knowledge of human psychology and
[24:30] Speaker 1: how to I don't want to say manipulate it, but
[24:33] Speaker 1: kind of manipulate it.
[24:36] Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. Well, I mean this is the thing
[24:38] Speaker 2: the very idea of I'm not saying he's a con man,
[24:41] Speaker 2: but the idea of con man is a confidence man.
[24:44] Speaker 2: And one thing that Jesus definitely was was a charismatic speaker.
[24:47] Speaker 2: So he had people you would be useless, even if
[24:50] Speaker 2: you had superhuman powers, even if you were born a
[24:54] Speaker 2: certain way, you would be useless if you weren't able
[24:57] Speaker 2: to pull a crowd. And one thing that Jesus was
[25:00] Speaker 2: very proficient that was was to capture the imaginations of
[25:03] Speaker 2: the people and have them following him with his public
[25:07] Speaker 2: speaking abilities. So yeah, who knows, Yeah, he might have
[25:10] Speaker 2: just just been incredibly convincing.
[25:13] Speaker 1: Let's get into the possibility that Jesus' resurrection appearances were
[25:18] Speaker 1: not physical.
[25:20] Speaker 2: Yes, that's a that is a good one.
[25:22] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[25:23] Speaker 2: One of the main things against that was, and kind
[25:26] Speaker 2: of goes back to what we were saying, is that
[25:29] Speaker 2: the original post, well, the the earliest earliest cightings, sorry,
[25:35] Speaker 2: the earliest writings of Jesus were by Paul's letters, and
[25:39] Speaker 2: he believed that he cited Jesus, but what he said
[25:42] Speaker 2: he cited was very much just a vision. So the
[25:47] Speaker 2: idea was that that that all these sightings of Jesus,
[25:53] Speaker 2: you know, because he was cited by the disciples, he
[25:55] Speaker 2: was cited by Mary, that there were other there were
[25:58] Speaker 2: other causes of this, and some of them that have
[26:03] Speaker 2: been proposed was grief trauma, memory distortion, cognitive refusal of acceptance,
[26:09] Speaker 2: wish for thinking, sleep deprivation, fasting for too long, desperate expectations,
[26:16] Speaker 2: spiritual trances or ecstatic epiphanies, or just simply mass hysteria
[26:22] Speaker 2: and so also but the other thing that's interesting about this,
[26:26] Speaker 2: and I think to take it a lot more seriously,
[26:28] Speaker 2: is that there was a that originally Jesus was talking
[26:36] Speaker 2: very much about a kind of there's a theory that
[26:39] Speaker 2: he was kind of leading a political revolution. He was
[26:42] Speaker 2: there to kind of overthrow the Jewish rule and the
[26:45] Speaker 2: Roman occupation, and in doing so, he kind of all
[26:49] Speaker 2: these disciples believed that he was he was. The disciples
[26:53] Speaker 2: were promised kind of very higher positions after success. So
[26:58] Speaker 2: when Jesus was Crucifer, the idea was that that now
[27:04] Speaker 2: they lost a huge section of of you know, they
[27:07] Speaker 2: all this kind of they were promised to a certain
[27:10] Speaker 2: hierarchy and rankings that they weren't going to get. So
[27:13] Speaker 2: they developed a story where that he he appeared to
[27:17] Speaker 2: them and it became from he went from a military
[27:21] Speaker 2: leader into then the prophetic figure that we now understand.
[27:26] Speaker 2: So it was kind of like a made up story
[27:29] Speaker 2: of of of a belief. But there's a there's a
[27:34] Speaker 2: I mean, there's a very another interesting one. If we
[27:36] Speaker 2: keep going back to the Gospels and how we spoke
[27:39] Speaker 2: about the Mark being the first one, uh, the resurrection
[27:43] Speaker 2: of Christ being seen was it was in Mark, but
[27:49] Speaker 2: those lines were added many many decades afterwards, so it
[27:53] Speaker 2: was kind of just written in almost like by hand.
[27:56] Speaker 2: So there's there's there's a there's no one as like
[27:58] Speaker 2: the second ending to Mark. So the resurrection of Christ
[28:01] Speaker 2: wasn't really in Mark. Yeah, it wasn't really a Mark either.
[28:04] Speaker 2: There was an angel in the tomb that said Jesus
[28:06] Speaker 2: has risen, so there was kind of that in Mark.
[28:09] Speaker 2: But the woman that discovered the empty tomb see at
[28:14] Speaker 2: the second version of Mark, do actually bump into Jesus
[28:17] Speaker 2: and they see him for themselves. That was added in
[28:21] Speaker 2: decades later to probably be more congruent with the later
[28:26] Speaker 2: Matthew and Luke to say, oh, there was deathnely a resurrection.
[28:31] Speaker 2: So again, you know, the whole idea is unfortunately the
[28:37] Speaker 2: skepticism comes, which just the length of time it took
[28:41] Speaker 2: for these things to actually be noted.
[28:44] Speaker 1: You also mentioned the ongoing visions that people have. You
[28:48] Speaker 1: cited the visions in slices of toast or on the wall.
[28:53] Speaker 1: Many people have vivid dreams or even meditation experience. Near
[28:59] Speaker 1: death experience is where they need Jesus. That is still
[29:03] Speaker 1: a powerful archetype that appears in many instances as people's consciousness.
[29:09] Speaker 2: And I think that's a great thing. And I think
[29:11] Speaker 2: if that happens to you, you know, it's going to
[29:13] Speaker 2: be difficult to convince other people that's happened to you.
[29:15] Speaker 2: But if you if you know, spirituality is not a science,
[29:18] Speaker 2: spirituality is something that that everyone needs to have as
[29:21] Speaker 2: an individual experience. So you know, I'm more for that
[29:24] Speaker 2: if someone if someone sees Jesus and a piece of
[29:26] Speaker 2: toast but actually feels something about that, you know, I
[29:30] Speaker 2: think that's great. Or you know, if they manage to
[29:32] Speaker 2: make some money orf it, that's also you know, that's
[29:34] Speaker 2: good for them. But I think, uh, I think, yeah,
[29:37] Speaker 2: it's it's there's there's nothing worse than someone who's just
[29:41] Speaker 2: super cynical or just very harsh on people who believe
[29:46] Speaker 2: they've had these experiences. And for me, I think, you know,
[29:49] Speaker 2: as long as you have had a positive experience and
[29:52] Speaker 2: you don't use it to mistreat anyone else or in
[29:55] Speaker 2: any way, I think who's to say what a what
[29:57] Speaker 2: a spiritual experience has to be. So you know, I'm
[30:00] Speaker 2: all for man, wherever you see Jesus or Buddha or
[30:03] Speaker 2: whatever you want. I think it's it's you know, it's
[30:05] Speaker 2: it's all. It's a beautiful thing as long as it yeah,
[30:07] Speaker 2: as long as no one gets hurt.
[30:09] Speaker 1: I want to get to one of your chapters that
[30:12] Speaker 1: really stood out for me. Jesus was a mushroom all
[30:15] Speaker 1: along being a former psycho not. This really stood out
[30:20] Speaker 1: for me, so let's get into that.
[30:21] Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that's great because then you will understand a
[30:24] Speaker 2: lot a lot of this. The funny thing about this
[30:27] Speaker 2: is it's there was a guy called John m Allegro,
[30:32] Speaker 2: I think that's how you pronounce his name. He was actually,
[30:34] Speaker 2: I don't know if you know much about the Dead
[30:38] Speaker 2: Sea Scrolls. They found these scrolls that I kind of
[30:41] Speaker 2: talk about the I think they called the Esseny's or
[30:44] Speaker 2: they're kind of like a Jewish sect, and he was
[30:48] Speaker 2: one of the main scholars on on the of these scrolls,
[30:51] Speaker 2: so he had a good name for himself. And he
[30:53] Speaker 2: was a teacher at the Manchester University and he came
[30:58] Speaker 2: up with this theory which is slightly different than the
[31:00] Speaker 2: one that I'm going to talk about, but it's he
[31:02] Speaker 2: kind of popularized this idea that that Jesus was was
[31:05] Speaker 2: a mushroom, kind of an allegory for a mushroom. And
[31:08] Speaker 2: the poor guy, he got laughed out of the community.
[31:13] Speaker 2: It was completely debunked in some ways or just disregarded
[31:17] Speaker 2: at least, and there was and he lost his job,
[31:22] Speaker 2: even though I think he quits just because it became
[31:24] Speaker 2: so stressful for him. But when you look into this theory,
[31:28] Speaker 2: there actually is a lot, a lot I found. You know,
[31:32] Speaker 2: you hear the title Jesus was a mushroom. It sounds hilarious,
[31:35] Speaker 2: but the more I dug into I'm like, there's a
[31:36] Speaker 2: lot to this, and the it's it's times a few
[31:40] Speaker 2: things we actually have spoken about. But at the time
[31:43] Speaker 2: of Jesus, when he was in Jerusalem, we know that
[31:47] Speaker 2: there was a big connection with the Greeks. The Greeks
[31:49] Speaker 2: were there. There's mention of the Greeks. Jesus probably spoke
[31:53] Speaker 2: a bit of Greek because we know that he communicated
[31:55] Speaker 2: with Pontious Pilot and the only the only shared language
[31:58] Speaker 2: there would be would be Greek. It was also Juruism
[32:01] Speaker 2: was a massive trade town, so it was quite multicultural.
[32:04] Speaker 2: So we know there was a Greece connection. And in
[32:06] Speaker 2: Greek Greece at the time there were these mystery celts.
[32:09] Speaker 2: The Dionysius cult is one of the most famous, and
[32:14] Speaker 2: that one is specifically about. What we're talking about is
[32:17] Speaker 2: that they would drink wine believed to be laced with drugs,
[32:20] Speaker 2: whether it be opioids or some something or rather, and
[32:23] Speaker 2: the entire point of it was to mimic the experience
[32:28] Speaker 2: of death and then to come back to life and
[32:30] Speaker 2: then to kind of then then first of all no
[32:34] Speaker 2: longer be afraid of death, but second of all kind
[32:37] Speaker 2: of had this experience that that completely changes your perspective.
[32:42] Speaker 2: So and and as as many people who are that
[32:45] Speaker 2: way inclined, No, there is that there is a thing
[32:47] Speaker 2: on mushrooms called ego death, when when you kind of
[32:50] Speaker 2: completely lose yourself and then come back, and people have
[32:53] Speaker 2: have have different reports on that, but it's often considered
[32:56] Speaker 2: to be quite quite a quite a foremanth of experience.
[33:00] Speaker 2: So the idea with this is that that's actually what
[33:03] Speaker 2: Jesus was. Tisn't to gnosticism a bit, but a lot
[33:06] Speaker 2: of what Gnostics spoke about was that the resurrection. And
[33:10] Speaker 2: I'm actually gonna pull this up here, but the resurrection
[33:13] Speaker 2: was not real. This is what the Gnostics believe. It
[33:15] Speaker 2: was a metaphorical thing. And there is a beautiful The
[33:23] Speaker 2: Gospel of Philip, which is one of the more famous ones,
[33:25] Speaker 2: talks about how he says here those who say that
[33:28] Speaker 2: they'll die first and then they'll rise are wrong. If
[33:31] Speaker 2: they don't first receive the resurrection while they're living, they
[33:35] Speaker 2: won't receive anything when they die. So the idea of
[33:38] Speaker 2: the gnosticism is about gaining the knowledge of death. So
[33:42] Speaker 2: the resurrection wasn't literal. It was that we all need
[33:45] Speaker 2: to die and be reborn, and the ideas through these drugs,
[33:48] Speaker 2: which kind of makes sense in a way, because Jesus said,
[33:51] Speaker 2: I am bread, Eat me bread, being a yuse, being
[33:53] Speaker 2: a fungish, I am wine, drink me intoxications that he
[33:57] Speaker 2: was welcoming us to eat and drink as him, and
[34:01] Speaker 2: so that's kind of the the concept behind that that
[34:05] Speaker 2: it's all allegory.
[34:06] Speaker 1: Another reason that stood out for me is because my
[34:10] Speaker 1: very last psychedelic experience, the most profound experience I've ever had,
[34:15] Speaker 1: led me to my current you could say, relationship with Christ.
[34:20] Speaker 1: It was a very much near death experience in my perspective,
[34:27] Speaker 1: that brought me to a physical outcome during the experience
[34:33] Speaker 1: that couldn't be denied. It actually brought me to a
[34:36] Speaker 1: preacher's house. I'm not going to get into the full story,
[34:39] Speaker 1: it's a very long story, but it was so profound
[34:43] Speaker 1: that I could not deny at least the power of
[34:48] Speaker 1: the Christ archetype.
[34:49] Speaker 2: After that experience, Matt's first of all, I would love
[34:53] Speaker 2: to hear that story at some points.
[34:54] Speaker 1: But it's on one of my episodes.
[34:56] Speaker 2: Also, ye send that to me because that sounds great.
[35:00] Speaker 2: But you were literally one hundred percent applying yourself to
[35:03] Speaker 2: the Gnostic process. You were, you were exactly you're achieving
[35:08] Speaker 2: what these Gnostic scriptures asking us to achieve. So I
[35:11] Speaker 2: think that's that's a beautiful thing. Man, however you get there.
[35:15] Speaker 1: You know, anything else relating to psychedelic Christ before we
[35:20] Speaker 1: move on from that, I mean, the.
[35:22] Speaker 2: One thing I just wanted to say was that John
[35:25] Speaker 2: m Legro one of the reasons why I think his
[35:27] Speaker 2: theory was kind of lost a bit is because he
[35:29] Speaker 2: actually also went further that the Celts were not only
[35:32] Speaker 2: drug related, but they were massively about fertility. So he
[35:37] Speaker 2: was basically composing that Jesus was doing these mass orgies
[35:40] Speaker 2: or that the Christians were just basically a Celt of
[35:42] Speaker 2: mass auguries drug taking. And he would say things like
[35:45] Speaker 2: the cross is quite phallic, and the mushroom is quite phallic,
[35:48] Speaker 2: and these types of things are why the guy lost
[35:51] Speaker 2: his job.
[35:51] Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I can see that, I could see that.
[35:57] Speaker 1: All right, let's move on to Jesus is already here
[36:01] Speaker 1: and he is AI. Let's get into it.
[36:05] Speaker 2: Yeah, this one is close to my heart because I
[36:08] Speaker 2: have a I'm a creative obviously I'm a writer, but
[36:11] Speaker 2: I also do a lot of art stuff, So AI
[36:14] Speaker 2: is a tricky one for me. It's really kind of
[36:17] Speaker 2: messed the industry. But what I like about this chapter
[36:19] Speaker 2: is I do see people kind of writing about similar
[36:21] Speaker 2: stuff because it's such a new idea. The theories in
[36:25] Speaker 2: my book are much more fresh and I think more independent.
[36:28] Speaker 2: A lot of the other theories I kind of repurposed
[36:31] Speaker 2: and rewrote and put my swing touch on it, but
[36:34] Speaker 2: this one is pretty much all me but the main
[36:37] Speaker 2: I mean, I can go into many many aspects, but
[36:39] Speaker 2: I think when we talk about the Bible and we
[36:42] Speaker 2: talk about conspiracy theories, generally they go hand in hand
[36:44] Speaker 2: with the Book of Revelation. It's always about the Book
[36:46] Speaker 2: of Revelation. The number of the Beast is always tied
[36:49] Speaker 2: into this, and there's always really fascinating ways that people
[36:54] Speaker 2: have used this apocalyptic prediction text to tie into other
[37:00] Speaker 2: ways that the world might end. But I find the
[37:03] Speaker 2: AI one is stronger than the other ones that I've
[37:06] Speaker 2: come across. First of all, it talks about a beast
[37:12] Speaker 2: that will arise builth from from like amalgamation of contents.
[37:16] Speaker 2: It talks about like a leopard and a band of
[37:18] Speaker 2: line and dragon with seven heads, keeping in mind that
[37:21] Speaker 2: there's seven tech companies Alphabet, Amazon and Apple, Meta, Microsoft,
[37:25] Speaker 2: Navidia and Tesla or the main ones. One of the
[37:29] Speaker 2: monster's heads is supposed to have a wound over here,
[37:32] Speaker 2: which kind of could be allusion to Elil Musk's neuralink.
[37:36] Speaker 2: But that's that's that's barely any of It's one of
[37:39] Speaker 2: the main main things that they say of this beast
[37:43] Speaker 2: that is going to rise is that it's going to
[37:45] Speaker 2: deceive us. It's going to see the inhabitants of the earth.
[37:48] Speaker 2: And if you look at AI, what is it doing.
[37:50] Speaker 2: You can't trust photos anymore, there's deep face. These chatbots
[37:54] Speaker 2: are just pandering to you, telling you what you want
[37:56] Speaker 2: to hear, and it's all very much fake information that
[38:00] Speaker 2: you can't trust anything anymore. And it talks about how
[38:03] Speaker 2: people wouldn't care. People don't care if you can trust
[38:05] Speaker 2: it or not. They just really really enjoy it. And
[38:08] Speaker 2: then what so then what event? What revelation says and
[38:14] Speaker 2: the merchants of earth sore, weep and mourn for no
[38:17] Speaker 2: one buys their merchandise anymore. So that's industries being completely
[38:21] Speaker 2: taken over and cut off and people and a lot
[38:23] Speaker 2: of a lot of industries are losing money because of AI. Yeah,
[38:26] Speaker 2: and of course, of course that them. And he goes
[38:28] Speaker 2: straight to the billionaires and the CEOs, which Jesus warned against.
[38:32] Speaker 2: He was always warning against these people that worship money.
[38:36] Speaker 2: You can't serve both garden money, he said. But I
[38:39] Speaker 2: think the most to me, the most potent thing was
[38:42] Speaker 2: that AI data centers. You know, they're talking about five
[38:46] Speaker 2: million gallons gallons of water per day. It's just the
[38:50] Speaker 2: type of water that these these data centers require. And
[38:53] Speaker 2: if you look at what the Bibles with their revelations, says,
[38:56] Speaker 2: a third of the waters turned bitter and many people
[38:59] Speaker 2: died from the waters. Now that are these people that
[39:01] Speaker 2: can't drink from their faucets anymore because the data setters
[39:04] Speaker 2: that have poisoned the water. It says great rivers dried
[39:07] Speaker 2: up to prepare the way for kings. So it's like
[39:10] Speaker 2: the rivers are going to dry up to prepare the
[39:11] Speaker 2: wave for the millionaire kings, which are like the kings
[39:13] Speaker 2: of today really, and the rivers and springs of water
[39:16] Speaker 2: became blood. So these kind of you know, it's really
[39:20] Speaker 2: just warns, well the deceits that the lines that we
[39:24] Speaker 2: see and the water use is going to be crazy.
[39:27] Speaker 2: But it even says it's like, why would we let
[39:28] Speaker 2: this happen? The Bible says the whole earth marveled and
[39:31] Speaker 2: followed the beast because it looks soft like a lamb,
[39:34] Speaker 2: but it speaks like a dragon. Yeah. So there's a
[39:38] Speaker 2: lots of little other things. Yeah, but it just seems
[39:41] Speaker 2: like you can definitely look at it through that lens.
[39:44] Speaker 1: You also asked the question, if humanity creates something more
[39:47] Speaker 1: intelligent than itself, have we effectively created God? And I
[39:52] Speaker 1: always say that if God created us based on a
[39:56] Speaker 1: perfect divine foundation, and and us as humans are extremely flawed,
[40:03] Speaker 1: shit shows most of the time, and we create life,
[40:08] Speaker 1: what does that reflection end up looking like when it
[40:11] Speaker 1: comes to growth and fruition.
[40:15] Speaker 2: I don't know. I lose sleep over these types of things, man.
[40:19] Speaker 2: I find it very scary. I mean, I mean, AI
[40:21] Speaker 2: is incredibly useful, and no one's denying ads, and there's
[40:24] Speaker 2: definitely beautiful things about you know, some of the medical
[40:27] Speaker 2: breakthroughs and AI I think are incredible. But yeah, for
[40:31] Speaker 2: the most part, I just I worry about the environmental impact.
[40:36] Speaker 2: I worry about There's just so many people, even I
[40:39] Speaker 2: have a lot of graphic designer friends that are just
[40:42] Speaker 2: out of work, you know.
[40:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, We're in a very interesting time. I think
[40:47] Speaker 1: we have some big decisions to make as humanity about
[40:51] Speaker 1: what we want to give our energy and attention to.
[40:54] Speaker 1: And I don't think it should be AI. At least
[40:56] Speaker 1: the direction that it's headed now has very strong potential
[41:01] Speaker 1: for a negative impact. To say the least, I not.
[41:06] Speaker 2: You know, I've I have very few things have scared
[41:09] Speaker 2: me in my life, and I think AI is the
[41:10] Speaker 2: first time that I really just it was such an
[41:12] Speaker 2: immediate and undeniable impact, and so it just feels at
[41:16] Speaker 2: the tip of the iceberg. Man, We've only just entered
[41:18] Speaker 2: the roller coaster. And I think, yeah, it makes me
[41:21] Speaker 2: very nervous. What makes me nervous most of all is
[41:23] Speaker 2: just the people in control of it. It's not so
[41:26] Speaker 2: much what it does. But I don't trust these these
[41:29] Speaker 2: massive billion CEOs with in control of this kind of technology. Man,
[41:33] Speaker 2: it's terrifying. One the wrong.
[41:38] Speaker 1: Let's get into Jesus's missing years. This has always fascinated me,
[41:43] Speaker 1: the possibilities that there may be some kind of documentation
[41:48] Speaker 1: out there that suggests he was traveling the world and
[41:52] Speaker 1: learning these mystery traditions.
[41:54] Speaker 2: M yeah, that's well, I guess I think probably of
[41:58] Speaker 2: all these things, that might be the oldest one that's
[42:03] Speaker 2: got to be because it's always been. The Church has
[42:06] Speaker 2: never really given the explanation for it. They've kind of
[42:09] Speaker 2: just said, well, while he was working with his dad
[42:11] Speaker 2: doing carpentry. But there's not a single shred of actual documentation.
[42:15] Speaker 2: I mean there is. There has been a lot of
[42:18] Speaker 2: things that have been written kind of almost like a
[42:20] Speaker 2: fan fictions about that. But yeah, the in the book,
[42:25] Speaker 2: I kind of cover a few options, but they generally
[42:30] Speaker 2: go towards a lot of them kind of suggest that
[42:34] Speaker 2: he went east, either to India or even to Japan.
[42:38] Speaker 2: But I think the Indian one, Yeah, Japan was a
[42:40] Speaker 2: weird one. Yeah, the documentation is it's so fascinating and
[42:44] Speaker 2: also so blatantly fabricated. No one has any belief in that,
[42:48] Speaker 2: but the one in India, there's many books written about that.
[42:50] Speaker 2: They really do believe that there was a good chance
[42:52] Speaker 2: that he was there makes sense in a lot of
[42:54] Speaker 2: ways because his teachings, as we said, very revolutionary, but
[42:59] Speaker 2: very He's not I wouldn't you know. They're not Buddhists,
[43:02] Speaker 2: but they were not far off. Buddha was a very passive,
[43:06] Speaker 2: non violent type of preacher. Jesus came with a similar
[43:10] Speaker 2: message which was very contrary to the to the environment
[43:13] Speaker 2: that he was in. So that's kind of I guess
[43:16] Speaker 2: the basis of of that exact theory was, like how
[43:20] Speaker 2: his his philosophy's just seemed a little more Eastern than
[43:24] Speaker 2: the paganistic Romans or the Jewish traditions. But yeah, there
[43:30] Speaker 2: was a guy and I forgot his name, unfortunately, but
[43:32] Speaker 2: he claims that he found the temple and that they
[43:36] Speaker 2: have they he found the documentation that kind of proved
[43:40] Speaker 2: that Jesus spent some time in India. But there's a Yeah,
[43:45] Speaker 2: there's another one as well, which is quite famous. I'm
[43:47] Speaker 2: currently in the UK and just the other day I
[43:49] Speaker 2: went to Glastonbury and there's I'd never been there to
[43:52] Speaker 2: the not to the festival, but to the town. It's crazy, man,
[43:55] Speaker 2: because it's like it's this mix of pagan druid culture
[43:59] Speaker 2: with this very ancient a lot of conspiracy theories around Christianity.
[44:05] Speaker 2: So the tourism there, it's like you're going to have
[44:07] Speaker 2: like crystals and Mother Mary right next to each other,
[44:10] Speaker 2: like Tara readings with like a big Jesus image. Just
[44:13] Speaker 2: really this mishmash of this kind of paganistic English culture. Yeah,
[44:18] Speaker 2: it is is really cool, But there was One of
[44:21] Speaker 2: the stories was that him and his uncle went and
[44:24] Speaker 2: sold tin in Glastonbury and then his uncle afterwards went
[44:29] Speaker 2: there to build the first church ever and that's where
[44:33] Speaker 2: the Holy Grail kind of comes from. That he bought
[44:36] Speaker 2: the Codly Grail. I believe that that was just typical
[44:39] Speaker 2: Britishness trying to claim a bit of the story for
[44:42] Speaker 2: their own. That is my theory completely, because that's what
[44:44] Speaker 2: the British do. You got to take a little slice.
[44:48] Speaker 2: That's great.
[44:49] Speaker 1: Any thoughts are research done about the possibility of Christ's
[44:55] Speaker 1: tomb being in Japan? I've heard this one.
[44:59] Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, that's the that's that's the other one. So
[45:01] Speaker 2: there's a guy could and again I'm bad with pronunciation.
[45:04] Speaker 2: I think it's good. Takeshi and he claimed that he
[45:07] Speaker 2: found these documents that not only put Christ there, but
[45:10] Speaker 2: I think it was like Muhammad was there, Moses was
[45:12] Speaker 2: there everywhere, that that that basically Japan was the center
[45:17] Speaker 2: of human creation, and that the kind of emperors at
[45:19] Speaker 2: the time were basically deities. But yeah, I called Shingo Village,
[45:24] Speaker 2: but they basically yeah, so they've they've they kind of
[45:29] Speaker 2: those documents were lost unfortunately in World War two, uh so,
[45:33] Speaker 2: and and they were never taking seriously from the beginning.
[45:36] Speaker 2: But because then I think it was like lonely Planet,
[45:38] Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken, kind of did a did a
[45:40] Speaker 2: special on it, and then the tourism started to go
[45:44] Speaker 2: there all the time, so then they this whole village
[45:46] Speaker 2: just transformed into this Jesus theme park. And there there
[45:50] Speaker 2: is a mound where there's a there's a cross on it,
[45:52] Speaker 2: and they claim they have a bit of his hair there.
[45:55] Speaker 2: But yeah, they say that he lived there until it
[45:57] Speaker 2: was one hundred and six because he escaped crucifixion and
[45:59] Speaker 2: went there and and that then when it was one
[46:01] Speaker 2: hundred and six, and yeah, and there's like a there's
[46:04] Speaker 2: like a museum there claiming that that that that that's
[46:07] Speaker 2: the case, and there's like a it's like there's even
[46:09] Speaker 2: like a like almost like a quickie mart type of supermarket.
[46:13] Speaker 2: That's all Jesus, Theamed biscuits and Jesus Theamed rice and
[46:17] Speaker 2: and and uh Jerusalem Israel. They they actually recognize that
[46:21] Speaker 2: they send her. They sent a stone there a part
[46:23] Speaker 2: of like the Jerusalem. There's a Jerusalem stone that that's
[46:26] Speaker 2: there as a gift. So it's it's gone out of
[46:28] Speaker 2: control of anything. But I really want to go. I
[46:30] Speaker 2: just want to go check that. So interesting. Yeah, really weird.
[46:35] Speaker 2: But there's like zero chance, man, like there's there's like
[46:41] Speaker 2: not there's even today there's very little Christian influence in
[46:44] Speaker 2: that country. Yeah.
[46:45] Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the theories that you say may even
[46:49] Speaker 1: be connected with this, it's often is is the possibility
[46:52] Speaker 1: that Jesus was married with children and he has a
[46:55] Speaker 1: bloodline that is carrying on christ bloodline.
[46:59] Speaker 2: Absolute the I mean, I guess that's probably the most
[47:01] Speaker 2: famous one thanks to Da Vinci code. That was one
[47:05] Speaker 2: of the big ones. Yeah, you know, I I I
[47:07] Speaker 2: think that's that's a very interesting one. I do cover that,
[47:11] Speaker 2: but there is there is, Yeah, it's I think there is. Yeah,
[47:18] Speaker 2: it's an interesting one. I think the one thing that
[47:20] Speaker 2: I makes sense about that rather than it being true,
[47:25] Speaker 2: is that there It would make sense that if that
[47:28] Speaker 2: was true, how drastically they would need to suppress it,
[47:31] Speaker 2: because if you were organization organizing a religion that had hierarchy,
[47:36] Speaker 2: that had a pope, that had a bishop, that had
[47:39] Speaker 2: you bishops and had priests, and this kind of which
[47:41] Speaker 2: which Rome developed, this kind of Christianity, hierarchy of spirituality,
[47:46] Speaker 2: that would go out the window. If there was descendants
[47:48] Speaker 2: of Jesus Christ and the official story, if I if
[47:53] Speaker 2: I remember, if there can be such a thing, is
[47:55] Speaker 2: that it was a daughter that that was that was
[47:58] Speaker 2: initially born, and then that would also you know, one
[48:02] Speaker 2: of the big things about the Christianity, not what Christ said,
[48:06] Speaker 2: but what what was developed in the Christian religion was
[48:10] Speaker 2: a suppression of females. So that would go out the
[48:12] Speaker 2: window as well, the bloodline the woman. So you know,
[48:15] Speaker 2: the one thing that kind of does it kind of
[48:18] Speaker 2: makes sense to me, is that not so much that
[48:20] Speaker 2: that is true. It could be true. I mean, who's
[48:23] Speaker 2: to say. And I do believe that him and Mary
[48:25] Speaker 2: Magdalen might Mary Magdalen was written out the Bible furiously
[48:29] Speaker 2: she was, but her name has been tainted and they
[48:31] Speaker 2: just did everything they could to remove this woman, and
[48:35] Speaker 2: there was a lot of non canonical scripture that places
[48:37] Speaker 2: her at the absolute forefront of the disciples, So that
[48:40] Speaker 2: much I can buy into. And so I don't know,
[48:43] Speaker 2: did did did they? Were they in love? And did
[48:45] Speaker 2: they mess around a bit? And you know, who's to say?
[48:48] Speaker 2: I mean, I you know, it doesn't seem that far
[48:51] Speaker 2: fetched to me, but and yeah, I definitely agree that
[48:55] Speaker 2: if it was the case, there would be a big
[48:57] Speaker 2: operation of suppression, but I wouldn't who Who's who's to say?
[49:02] Speaker 1: Yeah, right on, let's get into the possibility that Jesus
[49:06] Speaker 1: died on the cross but didn't resurrect, his body was
[49:10] Speaker 1: just stolen.
[49:12] Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, So there's I mean, there's a lot
[49:15] Speaker 2: of these about about Jesus about how he wasn't he
[49:21] Speaker 2: didn't die on the cross, that he just kind of fainted,
[49:24] Speaker 2: And there's ones that he he replaced who was replaced
[49:27] Speaker 2: with someone else? But yeah, yeah, these are already good.
[49:31] Speaker 2: But yeah, the the this is actually what's interesting about
[49:37] Speaker 2: this one is that there's a scripture about this about
[49:42] Speaker 2: how they they And I'm so sorry, I'm just like
[49:46] Speaker 2: double checking my notes. Share. No, it's all good, but
[49:49] Speaker 2: there's like there were quite a few anti Christians written
[49:54] Speaker 2: at the time that actually said that they they they
[49:58] Speaker 2: did have the body and they paraded it around the
[50:01] Speaker 2: streets just to like kind of show that it was yeah,
[50:06] Speaker 2: that that that actually killed him. But the other there's
[50:10] Speaker 2: like there's like less dramatic theories. For example, very very
[50:14] Speaker 2: common in those days was that bodies were buried with families.
[50:19] Speaker 2: Some people have said that the body was just removed
[50:22] Speaker 2: to go to go to a proper burial site and
[50:25] Speaker 2: then everyone was like, oh, is an empty tomb or
[50:27] Speaker 2: or there was even a theory that there was massive
[50:31] Speaker 2: concern that if they have them in the tomb, it's
[50:33] Speaker 2: gonna have this have this big pilgrimage effect, so they
[50:37] Speaker 2: just mad, they just removed it. There's even a very
[50:39] Speaker 2: comedic version of this that the gardener was was the
[50:41] Speaker 2: gardener that's that's mentioned the Bible was worried that people
[50:45] Speaker 2: were gonna trample his flowers and his carrots and stuff,
[50:47] Speaker 2: so he removed the body. Yeah. So there's just a
[50:50] Speaker 2: whole whole bunch of these these things. But what's very
[50:54] Speaker 2: what's the to me, what's actually this is what's cool
[50:56] Speaker 2: about this one is that it is the original conspiracy
[50:59] Speaker 2: theory in a way, but it's the other way around
[51:01] Speaker 2: because according to this is and this is in the Bible,
[51:06] Speaker 2: that was the official cause of this because when Jesus's
[51:09] Speaker 2: body went missing, the high priests started to apparently spread
[51:14] Speaker 2: a rumor and said Jesus's body was stolen. It was stolen,
[51:17] Speaker 2: it was stolen, So that was the official word. So
[51:20] Speaker 2: that was almost like the original conspiracy theory. And now
[51:22] Speaker 2: it's kind of flipped around. But like the original story
[51:25] Speaker 2: was no, his body was stolen. Now that's become the
[51:28] Speaker 2: conspiracy theory, whereas the conspiracy theory was before was he
[51:31] Speaker 2: actually came back to life, and now that's become the
[51:34] Speaker 2: official version. So it's kind of this weird flip around
[51:37] Speaker 2: that's happened. But yeah, but apparently the gods, according to
[51:42] Speaker 2: the Gospel of Matthew, the gods of the tomb were
[51:44] Speaker 2: paid money to spread to spread this rumor that he
[51:48] Speaker 2: was stolen.
[51:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, all right on, we'll do a couple of more
[51:51] Speaker 1: and we'll close it out. I've never heard this one.
[51:54] Speaker 1: After Jesus's resurrection, he visited the Americas. Tell us about that.
[51:58] Speaker 2: Yeah, this is completely based on the Latter day Saints
[52:04] Speaker 2: and the Book of Mormon. So they believe that Jesus
[52:09] Speaker 2: after his resurrection appeared in multiple places. I believe, but
[52:13] Speaker 2: one of the one of the places was you know what,
[52:15] Speaker 2: one of the I got to give credits with credits
[52:18] Speaker 2: due with the Book of Mormon. It was very clever
[52:20] Speaker 2: in that it did not specify locations, did not specify dates. Yeah,
[52:25] Speaker 2: so there's no way to really prove or disprove this stuff.
[52:29] Speaker 2: But their belief was that, well, according to John's stunt,
[52:33] Speaker 2: John Joseph Smith, he yeah, he's his official account was
[52:38] Speaker 2: that yet Jesus that the twelve in the Bible, there's
[52:41] Speaker 2: the twelve Lost Tribes of Israel, and one of one
[52:44] Speaker 2: of those was at that time had had migrated to
[52:47] Speaker 2: South America's so Jesus's resurrection, he actually appeared in different
[52:52] Speaker 2: places around the world to save these lost tribes of Israel,
[52:56] Speaker 2: one of which being South America. And so we appeared
[53:00] Speaker 2: to these who you are supposed to be the ancestors
[53:02] Speaker 2: of the current indigenous Americans and kind of taught them,
[53:10] Speaker 2: taught them, well, basically I have read it and it's
[53:12] Speaker 2: incredibly generic based on the Temple and sorry that the
[53:17] Speaker 2: Sermon on the mount there's a sermon in the Mounts
[53:19] Speaker 2: in the Bible where Jesus goes up this hill and
[53:21] Speaker 2: kind of just like gives like a long long speech
[53:24] Speaker 2: about things that he needs to rectify about the current
[53:28] Speaker 2: belief system. And it's almost like a word for word
[53:31] Speaker 2: copy of that. So this is one of the things.
[53:34] Speaker 2: I mean, there's nothing about it that's new information, which
[53:38] Speaker 2: I find it's difficult about it as well as that,
[53:42] Speaker 2: you know, these these things are written so long after
[53:44] Speaker 2: the fact. But yeah, I mean there are millions and
[53:47] Speaker 2: millions of people who adhere to this this version of Christianity.
[53:52] Speaker 2: So you know, who's to say he's he's obviously got
[53:54] Speaker 2: something right.
[53:56] Speaker 1: We briefly touched on this in the beginning. After all
[53:59] Speaker 1: your research and everything that you've looked at, do you
[54:02] Speaker 1: think that Jesus was a real person?
[54:07] Speaker 2: From all of my research, I have to agree with
[54:11] Speaker 2: every single major historian in the world that Jesus was
[54:14] Speaker 2: a figure who existed at the time that they believe
[54:18] Speaker 2: existed in Jerusalem. That's everything. It's really difficult to find
[54:22] Speaker 2: a reputable historian or religious scholar who disagrees with this fact.
[54:26] Speaker 2: The issues kind of come with what he actually said,
[54:30] Speaker 2: what he actually did. The details get hazy and we're
[54:32] Speaker 2: not sure about that. But the existence of Jesus I
[54:37] Speaker 2: struggle to find anyone to take seriously who denies that. Yeah,
[54:41] Speaker 2: but there, yeah, it's there's certain aspects of it. The
[54:45] Speaker 2: story that they say is if you were to fabricate
[54:49] Speaker 2: the story, you would never write a crucifixion, you would
[54:51] Speaker 2: never kill the prophets, you know, who should shouldn't be
[54:55] Speaker 2: able to be killed. That type of stuff is like,
[54:58] Speaker 2: it does not seem a Bible. And a lot of
[55:01] Speaker 2: people say, well, there's not enough documentation, but if you
[55:03] Speaker 2: actually look at it, there's more documentation about Jesus than
[55:05] Speaker 2: any other person of that time in Galilea. There was
[55:08] Speaker 2: not a single other person that is as well documented
[55:11] Speaker 2: with as old documents as there are for him. So yeah, yeah,
[55:15] Speaker 2: I think that's his existence is undeniable.
[55:19] Speaker 1: Well, we'll go over one more, the possibility that Jesus'
[55:22] Speaker 1: father was a Roman soldier. Tell us a little about.
[55:25] Speaker 2: This, Yeah, that one. That's also very fascinating and a
[55:28] Speaker 2: little bit a little bit brutal. So this is what's
[55:33] Speaker 2: interesting about this one is that there is a there's
[55:37] Speaker 2: there's the Hebrew Bible, which is the very same as
[55:40] Speaker 2: the Old Testament, is the most authoritative text in Judaism.
[55:44] Speaker 2: The second most authoritative texts is a text called the Talmut,
[55:47] Speaker 2: and the Talmut actually talks about this. It says that
[55:51] Speaker 2: Jesus was the son of a guy called Pantira and Panterira.
[55:56] Speaker 2: The story goes, and there's a couple of other documents
[55:59] Speaker 2: from the second century that speak of this, this Roman
[56:02] Speaker 2: soldier Pantira, who and it's some texts say it was consensual,
[56:07] Speaker 2: some say it wasn't consential, but sept with Mary, who
[56:12] Speaker 2: at the time was was very very young by any account,
[56:15] Speaker 2: she was thirteen or or maybe a little bit old
[56:17] Speaker 2: or even a little bit younger. And then yeah, then
[56:21] Speaker 2: that's and then that was the father. And there's names,
[56:25] Speaker 2: for example in the time which they refer to Jesus
[56:28] Speaker 2: as Binnida, which means bastard, son of a menstruating woman.
[56:32] Speaker 2: So it's pretty pretty vicious. And then but here's what's
[56:35] Speaker 2: fascinating is that in eighteen fifty nine they found a
[56:40] Speaker 2: tombstone of a guy Tiberis Julius abdes Pantira, who was
[56:46] Speaker 2: was a soldier who was born in twenty two BC
[56:48] Speaker 2: in Sidon died forty a d There and a lot
[56:51] Speaker 2: of researchers are saying this might be the guy. That
[56:53] Speaker 2: might actually be the guy who might have found his grave.
[56:56] Speaker 2: But at the same time there was a ton of
[56:58] Speaker 2: theories against it. First of all, that the names used
[57:01] Speaker 2: for Jesus and the Tumult were quite common names at
[57:05] Speaker 2: the time. Yes, you were, for example, so it's no
[57:08] Speaker 2: actual fact that that's the guy. A lot of the
[57:12] Speaker 2: timeline didn't quite add up. And also Pantera was quite
[57:16] Speaker 2: a common names that I find a tumb with Pania
[57:18] Speaker 2: and it doesn't really mean anything either. So again it's
[57:21] Speaker 2: just like people believe what they want to believe.
[57:24] Speaker 1: Really, I think, well, this is awesome research, man, We're
[57:28] Speaker 1: gonna have to definitely do this again. Are there any
[57:31] Speaker 1: particular theories that you lean in on more than others.
[57:37] Speaker 2: The one that makes the most sense to the point
[57:39] Speaker 2: of it, I think it's almost being undeniable, is that
[57:42] Speaker 2: the unfortunate case with the New Testament was that it
[57:45] Speaker 2: was selected under a Roman rule, so they were very
[57:49] Speaker 2: much selecting the choices of texts that would allow them
[57:54] Speaker 2: to continue the empire and build the empire, and it
[57:57] Speaker 2: allowed them to take control of Christianity and and declare
[58:00] Speaker 2: so many other texts like the Gnostics as hearsay. So
[58:04] Speaker 2: you know, I do believe that the New Testament Scripture
[58:07] Speaker 2: is incredibly, credibly powerful, and I think it's great choices
[58:10] Speaker 2: and a lot of the choices were actually the oldest
[58:12] Speaker 2: written text, so there is something to it. But I
[58:15] Speaker 2: think to trust the Romans with this, who are famously
[58:20] Speaker 2: known for their conquests. You know, I don't know, you know,
[58:23] Speaker 2: they wouldn't they. I think there was some manipulation perhaps,
[58:27] Speaker 2: but I don't think that that ruins the sacredness at all.
[58:32] Speaker 1: This was great. Like I said before, I let you go.
[58:35] Speaker 1: Let the audience know the best way that they can
[58:37] Speaker 1: pick up your works.
[58:39] Speaker 2: Great, Thank you, Chris. And so you can find my
[58:42] Speaker 2: website on jard Woods Saved my Life dot com, but
[58:47] Speaker 2: also on Amazon. So if you just type in Jesus
[58:49] Speaker 2: was a shape Shifting Alien, it should come up. I mean,
[58:51] Speaker 2: this book just came out, it's it's it's less than
[58:53] Speaker 2: a month old, so this thing's fresh. So yeah, yeah,
[58:56] Speaker 2: so please please do consider getting it. You can also
[58:58] Speaker 2: follow me on instag at Lego Trips. So like EGO
[59:01] Speaker 2: Trip with an L L E gt r IP, you'll
[59:05] Speaker 2: see all my travels there. I go to all these
[59:07] Speaker 2: kind of I just had a whole African trip. The
[59:08] Speaker 2: show went to ten different African countries checking out traditional
[59:11] Speaker 2: African and religious sacred sites. So it's there's a lot
[59:14] Speaker 2: of cool content out there.
[59:16] Speaker 1: I hope definitely man amazing. Like I said, we'll do
[59:20] Speaker 1: this again until next time. Everyone, have an excellent evening.
[59:24] Speaker 1: We will talk again tomorrow. We'll see y'all. Then watch
[59:27] Speaker 1: Doors of Perception now on Amazon Prime. Are you and
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