# John Hamer | False History, Parasitic Bloodlines & Info Control, NASA & Creation of "Space"

An episode of [Forbidden Knowledge News](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1470192028), 14 Sep 2026, 1 h 01 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/75127556/fknepisodejhamer_hd_720p_medium_fr30_14092026.mp3

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## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: I think it's just going to get weirder and weirder
[0:04] Speaker 1: and weirder. And finally, it's going to be so weird
[0:08] Speaker 1: that people are going to have.
[0:09] Speaker 2: To talk about how weird it is.
[0:11] Speaker 1: Welcome back to Forbidden Knowledge News. I'm your host, Chris Matthew. Today,
[0:16] Speaker 1: my guest is John Hamer. Check out our merch shop.
[0:18] Speaker 1: We've got great shirt designs, shirts from the films, logo tees, hoodies.
[0:23] Speaker 1: Use the link in the description to go check those out.
[0:26] Speaker 1: Watch my films, Occult Louisiana's on Tubi, Doors of Perception
[0:29] Speaker 1: on Amazon Prime. I am booking guests for October. If
[0:33] Speaker 1: you have suggestions or you'd like to be a guest,
[0:36] Speaker 1: email me, ForbiddenKnowledgeNews at gmail.com. Today I want to welcome
[0:40] Speaker 1: John Hamer. He is a geopolitical researcher, analyst, public speaker,
[0:45] Speaker 1: and author. John, welcome. How are you doing?
[0:47] Speaker 2: I'm very good, thank you. And yourself?
[0:50] Speaker 1: I'm great. It's great to have you. Today we're going
[0:52] Speaker 1: to share the research contained in your book, The Falsification
[0:55] Speaker 1: of History, Our Distorted Reality. which explores the ongoing parasitic
[1:00] Speaker 1: control systems and the small group of psychopaths that have
[1:05] Speaker 1: been in power for a very, very, very long time,
[1:08] Speaker 1: consistently controlling historical narratives to a point where our entire
[1:13] Speaker 1: history has been altered to maintain the power of these parasites.
[1:17] Speaker 1: I love the research that you've done. Before we get
[1:20] Speaker 1: into it, though, this is your first time on. Tell
[1:22] Speaker 1: us just a little bit about yourself and let the
[1:24] Speaker 1: audience know how they can find out more.
[1:27] Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah. My name is John Hamer.
[1:29] Speaker 3: I've been a geopolitical researcher, author and public speaker for
[1:34] Speaker 3: just coming up to 30 years. And yeah, so Falsification
[1:39] Speaker 3: of History, the book that we're talking about, was my
[1:41] Speaker 3: first book. I'm just about to publish book 12. So,
[1:45] Speaker 3: you know, it's been a long it's been a long journey.
[1:49] Speaker 3: But yeah, it's and hopefully it's going to continue, you know,
[1:52] Speaker 3: for another long while as well. So yeah, that's basically
[1:56] Speaker 3: what I do. I'm obviously based in the UK. You
[1:58] Speaker 3: can probably tell by my accent. And yeah, it's a
[2:04] Speaker 3: pleasure to be here.
[2:05] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great to have you. Long overdue. I just
[2:09] Speaker 1: became familiar with your work recently, which I don't know
[2:12] Speaker 1: how that's possible with the areas that I've been focusing on.
[2:16] Speaker 1: But I'm really looking forward to getting into this. Since
[2:18] Speaker 1: we're going to be focusing on that first book, give
[2:21] Speaker 1: us a synopsis on what you focused on throughout the book.
[2:26] Speaker 3: Yeah, well, basically, it's just a roughly chronological treatise, if
[2:30] Speaker 3: you like, on exactly how history has been falsified through,
[2:35] Speaker 3: as you kind of alluded to earlier, Christopher, throughout the millennia, really.
[2:40] Speaker 3: I mean, going back to Babylon times, which is where
[2:42] Speaker 3: the bloodlines that control us, it's from where they originate,
[2:48] Speaker 3: which is going back 5,000 years or so.
[2:50] Speaker 2: And it's been the same bloodlines.
[2:53] Speaker 3: Throughout history, through Babylon, through ancient Greece, the Romans, the Merovingians,
[3:02] Speaker 3: European royalty, and then, of course, spread westward to the Americas. So, yeah,
[3:07] Speaker 3: it's the same bunch of people, basically, that have been
[3:10] Speaker 3: doing this for many thousands of generations. So, yeah, it's
[3:15] Speaker 3: just really that chronological process explanation and it covers a
[3:19] Speaker 3: lot of different events that are not what people actually
[3:23] Speaker 3: think they are and that's why it's called the falsification
[3:25] Speaker 3: of history because history has been systematically falsified for millennia.
[3:31] Speaker 1: Being that is the case, most of what we can
[3:35] Speaker 1: find documented about our history has been altered in some way.
[3:39] Speaker 1: What routes did you take to try and get the
[3:42] Speaker 1: most accurate information going back as far as possible?
[3:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question.
[3:48] Speaker 3: I mean, when I first began doing this, the internet
[3:53] Speaker 3: was very much in its infancy. So there wasn't an
[3:56] Speaker 3: awful lot on the internet. And to be honest, when
[3:58] Speaker 3: I first kind of came into this truther world, for
[4:02] Speaker 3: want of a better expression, I didn't really know anyone
[4:05] Speaker 3: else who felt the same way that I did. You know,
[4:07] Speaker 3: this is going back to the mid to late 90s.
[4:10] Speaker 3: And I just.
[4:15] Speaker 2: I spent a lot of time in public libraries.
[4:17] Speaker 3: As I said, there wasn't an awful lot available on
[4:20] Speaker 3: the internet at that time because I had an old
[4:22] Speaker 3: dial-up internet at that time, you know, where you had
[4:24] Speaker 3: to use the phone line to download a page every
[4:28] Speaker 3: 30 seconds. So it was a bit slow going on
[4:31] Speaker 3: the internet. So, yeah, and I used to browse old
[4:34] Speaker 3: bookshops as well. And I own a lot of very
[4:38] Speaker 3: old books. And the thing about older books is that
[4:42] Speaker 3: they're more likely to contain the truth.
[4:45] Speaker 2: People say, why? Why is that, John?
[4:47] Speaker 3: Well, that's because they're constantly refining the agenda. So if
[4:51] Speaker 3: you have a book that's 100, 150 years old, it's
[4:55] Speaker 3: more likely to tell the truth because they've not refined
[4:58] Speaker 3: the agenda to the extent that they have at this
[5:00] Speaker 3: point in time. So I've found a lot of very,
[5:03] Speaker 3: very interesting information through my book collection, which I'd gleaned
[5:08] Speaker 3: from old bookshops.
[5:10] Speaker 1: When we look at how everything has landed us in
[5:14] Speaker 1: our modern age, it's difficult to trace a central power structure.
[5:21] Speaker 1: Many that get into this field of research tend to
[5:24] Speaker 1: believe that there are different factions that may be fighting
[5:29] Speaker 1: for control of agendas or ideologies that they want to
[5:33] Speaker 1: put forward. But would you say that there is a
[5:36] Speaker 1: central power source that we can look at today? that
[5:41] Speaker 1: dictates where everything goes?
[5:44] Speaker 3: I think the answer to that is, is that yes,
[5:47] Speaker 3: that probably is, but I'm not sure. I'm not convinced
[5:51] Speaker 3: that anyone apart from insiders know exactly what it is.
[5:55] Speaker 3: There's so many different interlocking factions and whereabouts they actually
[5:59] Speaker 3: fit into the, to the whole pyramid structure. Everything's a pyramid,
[6:03] Speaker 3: isn't it? But whereabouts they all actually fit into that structure.
[6:07] Speaker 2: It's a bit of a mystery really.
[6:09] Speaker 3: All you can do, really, when you're researching it, is
[6:13] Speaker 3: accept that you cannot know the real truth, because I
[6:17] Speaker 3: believe that is hidden.
[6:20] Speaker 2: But that's just my opinion.
[6:21] Speaker 3: It could be way off-beam, but that's how I tend
[6:25] Speaker 3: to look at it when I'm researching.
[6:27] Speaker 1: In our modern history, there's a series of events that
[6:31] Speaker 1: seem to be stepping stones. I'd say, confidently, World War II...
[6:38] Speaker 1: the JFK assassination, Vietnam, and COVID. The COVID operation was
[6:43] Speaker 1: a huge one for recent events. They all seem to
[6:48] Speaker 1: be interlinking and stepping stones for each other, as well
[6:53] Speaker 1: as the growing and emerging technocracy that we've seen today.
[6:58] Speaker 1: Going back to our modern history, would you add any
[7:00] Speaker 1: other high-impact events that were major stepping stones besides those?
[7:08] Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
[7:08] Speaker 3: I mean, if you go back, say, 150 years, both
[7:13] Speaker 3: world wars were planned in the 1870s by the Prince
[7:18] Speaker 3: of Wales of Great Britain, who became Edward VII after
[7:22] Speaker 3: Queen Victoria died. He was very, very instrumental, not on
[7:25] Speaker 3: his own, obviously, but he was very, very instrumental, along
[7:28] Speaker 3: with the Rothschilds, of planning World War I and World
[7:32] Speaker 3: War II and possibly World War III, but obviously that's
[7:34] Speaker 3: not happened yet, despite all the blustering and all the...
[7:38] Speaker 3: You know, all the fear mongering that's going on about
[7:41] Speaker 3: it at the moment. So, yeah, that, you know, if
[7:46] Speaker 3: we go back to that point in time, that was
[7:47] Speaker 3: kind of the start of the modern of modern history,
[7:49] Speaker 3: if you like.
[7:51] Speaker 2: So World War One, World War Two, most.
[7:52] Speaker 3: Definitely the Cold War, as you say, Vietnam War, the
[7:57] Speaker 3: moon landings, the fake moon landings, Kennedy assassination, you mentioned
[8:03] Speaker 3: as well. Yeah, there are lots and lots of different things,
[8:06] Speaker 3: you know, some more trivial than others. 9-11, of course,
[8:09] Speaker 3: was a big one. And, yeah, the Gulf War. You
[8:15] Speaker 3: could go on and on, really, but everything is connected.
[8:18] Speaker 3: This is the point, and this is kind of what
[8:20] Speaker 3: I've tried to emphasise within the book. All these seemingly
[8:23] Speaker 3: isolated events, all these occurrences, all these wars, all these
[8:28] Speaker 3: false flags, they are all connected in the common denominator.
[8:31] Speaker 2: Yeah. are the people who rule over us with an
[8:34] Speaker 2: iron fist.
[8:36] Speaker 1: You mentioned the British royal family. Would you say that
[8:39] Speaker 1: they are one of the main focuses when we're looking
[8:44] Speaker 1: at the power structure even today?
[8:47] Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah.
[8:48] Speaker 3: I mean, they are one of the Merovingian bloodlines, one
[8:51] Speaker 3: of the original bloodlines that I mentioned earlier. Yeah, I mean,
[8:55] Speaker 3: there are 13 of these bloodlines interlocking families who intermarry
[9:00] Speaker 3: with each other. They are just one of them, European
[9:03] Speaker 3: royal families, but the British one, the British royal family
[9:08] Speaker 3: kind of rules the roost. The British royal family is
[9:11] Speaker 3: the most superior royal family in the world.
[9:14] Speaker 2: So they are a massive part of it. They do
[9:17] Speaker 2: a very good job of.
[9:17] Speaker 3: Disguising it, by the way, but they are very, very
[9:20] Speaker 3: up to their scrawny little necks in it.
[9:22] Speaker 2: There's absolutely no doubt about that.
[9:25] Speaker 1: When we try to explore the motivations of these groups...
[9:32] Speaker 1: It's easy to look at the geopolitical aspects, the wars
[9:37] Speaker 1: that are fought, some of the surface level agendas that
[9:41] Speaker 1: come through. But when you start exploring the darker side,
[9:45] Speaker 1: the occult aspects, child sacrifice, some of the darker ritual aspects,
[9:51] Speaker 1: it gets very dark and murky. And a lot of
[9:54] Speaker 1: people check out. They don't want to go any further
[9:57] Speaker 1: into this or they just dismiss it outright. as far
[10:01] Speaker 1: as that aspect goes the occult practices the dark spirituality
[10:07] Speaker 1: i'm divided on this part of me wants to believe
[10:10] Speaker 1: that it's used as psychological operation to have us believe
[10:15] Speaker 1: that they're all powerful and magical to perpetuate these myths.
[10:20] Speaker 1: But then another part of me thinks that they really
[10:23] Speaker 1: believe in this and they're really applying some of these
[10:27] Speaker 1: ancient Babylonian occult beliefs, even some of the practices that
[10:32] Speaker 1: they're doing today. If you look at MKUltra, some of
[10:36] Speaker 1: the horrific experimentation that was done, much of it was
[10:40] Speaker 1: satanic ritual abuse. So what are your thoughts on the
[10:44] Speaker 1: occult aspects of everything?
[10:46] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think people turn away from that because it
[10:51] Speaker 3: is quite upsetting. You know, it is distressing, a lot
[10:54] Speaker 3: of the stuff that you read. And to be honest,
[10:56] Speaker 3: when I first started looking at child sacrifice and child abuse,
[11:00] Speaker 3: you know, the level of child abuse that goes on
[11:02] Speaker 3: in the world, I mean, it's absolutely rife amongst the
[11:05] Speaker 3: upper echelons. It's very distressing and I found it very difficult,
[11:09] Speaker 3: but I've kind of got numb to it over the years.
[11:13] Speaker 3: But yeah, you know, it is a, It's an integral
[11:16] Speaker 3: part of what they do. It's very fixed in their
[11:19] Speaker 3: belief systems, such as they are. But what we've got
[11:23] Speaker 3: to remember and what we've got to take into account
[11:26] Speaker 3: is the fact that these people are far more scared
[11:29] Speaker 3: of us than we are of them. I say this
[11:33] Speaker 3: all the time when I'm doing my public talks. People
[11:35] Speaker 3: will say to me, oh, John, it's terrible. This world
[11:39] Speaker 3: is terrible. I'm scared to death all the time.
[11:42] Speaker 2: Well, don't be.
[11:43] Speaker 3: You know, the only thing you have to fear is
[11:45] Speaker 3: fear itself because these people know, this is why they
[11:49] Speaker 3: do what they do, because they know that we are
[11:51] Speaker 3: more powerful than them. And if we ever got our
[11:54] Speaker 3: collective act together, they'd be finished. But the problem is
[11:58] Speaker 3: they work at us constantly to divide and conquer us.
[12:03] Speaker 2: And that's why the truth movement is so fractured.
[12:06] Speaker 3: So blown apart because they have infiltrators who come within
[12:12] Speaker 3: and they, and they, And they divide and conquer. They
[12:15] Speaker 3: split us up. They split us up into little factions
[12:17] Speaker 3: so that we lose our power. But, you know, the
[12:20] Speaker 3: reality is we're very, very powerful spiritual beings. And, you know,
[12:24] Speaker 3: as I say, if we could just harness that as
[12:27] Speaker 3: a group, then these people would have nowhere to go.
[12:30] Speaker 3: So this is why they do what they do. They're
[12:32] Speaker 3: terrified of us. I'm sorry, I probably got off the
[12:33] Speaker 3: point a.
[12:34] Speaker 1: Little bit there.
[12:35] Speaker 2: No, it's great.
[12:36] Speaker 1: Do you think that there is... One grand unified goal
[12:41] Speaker 1: for the ruling class, where they want to bring us.
[12:45] Speaker 1: As far as I can see, is a grand surveillance state, technocratic,
[12:52] Speaker 1: anti-human system where we're ruled by AI and technology. And
[12:59] Speaker 1: most likely the population is a lot less and they
[13:02] Speaker 1: have just a global power system. But is there anything
[13:05] Speaker 1: beyond that that we can look at?
[13:09] Speaker 3: Well, I think it comes down, again, to the fact
[13:11] Speaker 3: that they're terrified of us. This is why they want
[13:13] Speaker 3: to reduce the population massively. You know, the generally accepted
[13:17] Speaker 3: wisdom on that is that they want to reduce the
[13:19] Speaker 3: population by, like, 95%. In fact, the Georgia Guidestones, before
[13:24] Speaker 3: they were destroyed, actually stated that, you know, in plain English. Well,
[13:30] Speaker 3: not just in English, but in lots of other major
[13:32] Speaker 3: languages as well. They want to reduce the population because
[13:36] Speaker 3: they're terrified of us.
[13:37] Speaker 2: They know.
[13:38] Speaker 3: that if we, as an 8 billion or whatever that
[13:42] Speaker 3: figure is, I'm not sure it's 8 billion. I think
[13:44] Speaker 3: that's made up personally, but that's another story for another
[13:48] Speaker 3: time perhaps. But yeah, I think they want us, our
[13:52] Speaker 3: numbers greatly reduced so that they can control us because
[13:56] Speaker 3: as I keep saying, they're terrified to death of us.
[13:59] Speaker 3: It might not seem like that, but they really, really are.
[14:03] Speaker 1: You've done some work looking into Princess Diana. I'd love
[14:08] Speaker 1: to hear more about her role, not only in the
[14:13] Speaker 1: royal family, but what she personally was attempting to do there.
[14:17] Speaker 2: Yeah, Princess Diana. I mean, bless her.
[14:21] Speaker 3: She was a loose cannon, okay? She was creating waves. Charles,
[14:30] Speaker 3: King Charles as he is now, Prince Charles as he
[14:32] Speaker 3: was then, wanted rid of her because she'd fulfilled her
[14:36] Speaker 3: role creating what she referred to as the heir and
[14:40] Speaker 3: the spare, you know, the heir to the throne and
[14:43] Speaker 3: his younger brother in case of anything happened to the
[14:46] Speaker 3: eldest one, William. So, yeah, she was surplus to requirements.
[14:51] Speaker 3: She kicked back. You know, she wouldn't be bullied. So
[14:56] Speaker 3: she made life very, very difficult for the royals. And
[14:58] Speaker 3: the big problem that Diana had was the fact that
[15:01] Speaker 3: the British public, I would say 70% of the British
[15:05] Speaker 3: public was on her side against the royal family.
[15:07] Speaker 2: And we can't have that.
[15:10] Speaker 3: I believe that was the catalyst that set that train
[15:13] Speaker 3: of events in motion to actually get rid of her.
[15:17] Speaker 3: And they did that very successfully, covered it up well,
[15:21] Speaker 3: and the rest is history. But yeah, Diana wasn't one
[15:26] Speaker 3: for sitting back and taking it. She fought like a
[15:29] Speaker 3: tigress for her children, for her marriage. She still believed
[15:34] Speaker 3: that she could maintain a marriage up to a point.
[15:38] Speaker 2: She did. And then obviously at some point she realized
[15:41] Speaker 2: that that wasn't possible.
[15:42] Speaker 3: But the big problem for her was that she was
[15:44] Speaker 3: such a loose cannon. She was threatening to betray a
[15:48] Speaker 3: lot of their secrets. We never found out what those were.
[15:52] Speaker 3: But apparently in a couple of phone calls to someone
[15:55] Speaker 3: who's totally anonymous, we don't know who it was, but
[15:58] Speaker 3: the information was leaked out. she was about to blow
[16:01] Speaker 3: the whistle big time on, on their activities. And that's
[16:04] Speaker 3: what kind of brought it on.
[16:06] Speaker 2: So, yeah.
[16:07] Speaker 3: Um, very, very brave woman, not the brightest lamp in
[16:11] Speaker 3: the street Lhasa, but you know, she, she fought for
[16:14] Speaker 3: what she believed in. She fought for her children and
[16:16] Speaker 3: she fought for her own rights as well. And that,
[16:18] Speaker 3: and that's what did for her.
[16:19] Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, there's so few that have done that throughout history.
[16:23] Speaker 1: Another difficult aspect about waking up to all of this
[16:27] Speaker 1: is the realization that we can't have any heroes. The
[16:31] Speaker 1: deeper we dig into specific individuals throughout history, the skeletons
[16:36] Speaker 1: come pouring out. Most of them, if they weren't compromised,
[16:41] Speaker 1: they were that way from the get-go. And we can
[16:45] Speaker 1: look at Princess Diana as one of the few who
[16:47] Speaker 1: were bucking the system, possibly JFK in some ways. It's
[16:52] Speaker 1: really difficult to name that many others. Would there be
[16:56] Speaker 1: any others besides JFK, Princess Diana, that you'd add to
[17:00] Speaker 1: that list throughout modern history?
[17:02] Speaker 3: Well, I think you were right when you said that
[17:04] Speaker 3: there are so few because they know the consequences. Most
[17:07] Speaker 3: people are not prepared to risk their lives, and they
[17:10] Speaker 3: are risking their lives by going against the power that.
[17:13] Speaker 2: Shouldn't be, as I call them.
[17:20] Speaker 3: So, yeah, there are very, very few, but all the
[17:23] Speaker 3: ones that I can't think of any off the top
[17:25] Speaker 3: of my head.
[17:26] Speaker 2: But JFK was a great example.
[17:29] Speaker 3: I mean, that was the reason for, I wrote a book,
[17:31] Speaker 3: I don't know if you've seen my book list, but
[17:34] Speaker 3: I wrote a book called JFK, A Very British Coup.
[17:37] Speaker 3: And the reasons that I called it Very British Coup
[17:40] Speaker 3: was because it was actually, you know, I've uncovered a
[17:44] Speaker 3: lot of evidence to say that it was the British
[17:47] Speaker 3: Shema Six that actually coordinated and planned it all. They
[17:50] Speaker 3: didn't actually carry it out, but they coordinated and planned
[17:54] Speaker 3: it all in conjunction with several American societal factions. JFK's
[17:59] Speaker 3: problem was that he tried too much to clean up
[18:05] Speaker 3: the country.
[18:07] Speaker 2: He was getting rid of corruption.
[18:09] Speaker 3: He threatened to split the CIA into a million pieces,
[18:13] Speaker 3: which didn't go down very well. He made a massive
[18:15] Speaker 3: enemy of J. Edgar Hoover. the head of the FBI.
[18:19] Speaker 3: They hated each other. Even he and Lyndon Johnson, you know,
[18:24] Speaker 3: had the knives out for each other. He upset big
[18:27] Speaker 3: oil massively.
[18:28] Speaker 2: All this stuff's in the book, by the way, if
[18:30] Speaker 2: anybody's interested.
[18:31] Speaker 3: But he upset big oil massively. He upset the Federal Reserve.
[18:36] Speaker 3: He introduced his own currency, which bypassed the Federal Reserve.
[18:40] Speaker 3: And nobody, but nobody lives to do that. There are
[18:44] Speaker 3: so many examples of that, which we'll go into, but
[18:47] Speaker 3: there are so many examples of people trying to do that,
[18:50] Speaker 3: bypassing the central banks. So, yeah, it was a combination
[18:54] Speaker 3: of all those different things. Very, very complex story, but
[18:57] Speaker 3: that's kind of the nub of it. And, you know,
[19:00] Speaker 3: JFK was never going to survive that. You know, it
[19:03] Speaker 3: just upset just about every establishment faction you can imagine.
[19:08] Speaker 2: And that's why he didn't live to tell the tale.
[19:13] Speaker 1: There are some that would even put Donald Trump in
[19:17] Speaker 1: that category, which I don't. There's a split amongst the
[19:21] Speaker 1: beliefs about this as well. Some believe that from the beginning,
[19:26] Speaker 1: he was in the club and he was always meant
[19:30] Speaker 1: to be doing what he's doing now. But others believe
[19:33] Speaker 1: that he started out noble in his first term and
[19:37] Speaker 1: then was compromised and eventually became just another part of
[19:42] Speaker 1: the system. Do you have any thoughts on what was
[19:45] Speaker 1: happening with him?
[19:45] Speaker 3: Um yeah i mean obviously it's only my opinion you
[19:49] Speaker 3: know yeah i couldn't swear to any of this but
[19:52] Speaker 3: it's just it's just kind of stuff that i've gleaned
[19:54] Speaker 3: over the years um well first of all i would
[19:57] Speaker 3: say that nobody ever gets to be president without being
[20:00] Speaker 3: part of the establishment nobody nobody and um I think
[20:07] Speaker 3: probably the last person to do that was JFK, strangely enough.
[20:11] Speaker 3: But yeah, no, I think Donald Trump's part of the problem, personally.
[20:16] Speaker 3: I know it's a very popular thing to knock Trump,
[20:19] Speaker 3: and it's almost become a.
[20:22] Speaker 3: I don't know what the word is, but it's almost
[20:24] Speaker 3: become a norm that Trump is some kind of a villain. Well,
[20:29] Speaker 3: I don't think he's a hero, but I don't think
[20:31] Speaker 3: he's any worse than anyone.
[20:32] Speaker 2: Else, particularly.
[20:33] Speaker 3: But what you've got to take into account with Trump
[20:36] Speaker 3: is that he has more mentions in the Epstein files
[20:39] Speaker 3: than any other person. OK, so he's a proven child molester,
[20:45] Speaker 3: you know. And so, no, I don't think he's one
[20:50] Speaker 3: of the good guys. I think they try to create...
[20:53] Speaker 3: It's almost like a double bluff. They try to create
[20:55] Speaker 3: that impression that Trump's really a good guy and then
[20:59] Speaker 3: this is why he's attacked all the time because.
[21:03] Speaker 3: It's almost as though they're kind of pretending that there
[21:06] Speaker 3: is a good guy, so we have to get rid
[21:07] Speaker 3: of him. So we have to pull him down at
[21:09] Speaker 3: every opportunity. It's like a double bluff kind of situation.
[21:12] Speaker 3: That's the way I see it. I may be way
[21:14] Speaker 3: off beam, and if I am, I apologize, but that's
[21:18] Speaker 3: just my own personal view.
[21:20] Speaker 1: You mentioned how convoluted conspiracy culture has become in the
[21:24] Speaker 1: past few years. I'm starting to wonder if this was
[21:28] Speaker 1: all by design for some reason or another. I mean,
[21:32] Speaker 1: I can even go back to 2018 with the Alex Jones,
[21:35] Speaker 1: Sandy Hook fiasco when the censorship started. But in 2020,
[21:40] Speaker 1: that's when everything really started to kick off with censorship,
[21:44] Speaker 1: canceling people. You couldn't say certain things. You fast forward
[21:49] Speaker 1: to today and even last year when things started to
[21:53] Speaker 1: ease up, I had my YouTube channel taken down for
[21:55] Speaker 1: some of the things that I was discussing and they
[21:58] Speaker 1: actually gave it back to me. last year out of
[22:01] Speaker 1: the blue for some reason, but they seem to be
[22:04] Speaker 1: easing up on everything. But not only that, every conspiracy
[22:09] Speaker 1: is flooding the mainstream airwaves. We even have mainstream news
[22:15] Speaker 1: personalities and content creators that are easily being allowed to
[22:20] Speaker 1: discuss this. The algorithms are picking them up and these
[22:24] Speaker 1: people are all over the place. But There's so much
[22:27] Speaker 1: bad information, misinformation, leading people in wrong directions. It all
[22:32] Speaker 1: seems to be intentional right now. What do you think
[22:35] Speaker 1: about that?
[22:36] Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
[22:37] Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's all done for a purpose.
[22:41] Speaker 3: I'm not 100% sure what that purpose is, but it
[22:44] Speaker 3: could well be what you say. I think it's just
[22:46] Speaker 3: muddying the waters. It's kind of there's so much information
[22:52] Speaker 3: and disinformation going on right now far more than.
[22:55] Speaker 2: There ever has been.
[22:56] Speaker 3: And it's very difficult to pick the truth from fiction.
[23:01] Speaker 2: Very, very difficult.
[23:02] Speaker 3: I'm not a current affairs guy. I tend to look
[23:06] Speaker 3: at stuff after the event, when it's become apparent what
[23:09] Speaker 3: the agenda was, rather than trying to speculate in the
[23:12] Speaker 3: here and now, if you understand what I'm saying. So
[23:14] Speaker 3: I may not be as aware as yourself, Christopher, about
[23:19] Speaker 3: exactly what is going on current affairs-wise. But I do
[23:24] Speaker 3: agree with you about the fact that, yeah, there's all
[23:27] Speaker 3: sorts of weird stuff going on right now.
[23:30] Speaker 2: Weird stuff. And I think it's just, like I said,
[23:32] Speaker 2: to muddy the waters as much as anything.
[23:34] Speaker 1: I am of the belief that what was done during
[23:38] Speaker 1: the time of MKUltra experiments, 50s, 60s, 70s and beyond,
[23:41] Speaker 1: was for these groups to understand human psychology, to understand
[23:51] Speaker 1: a degree that we couldn't even fathom. Now they're implementing
[23:55] Speaker 1: those understandings with the combination of pharmaceuticals, social media, the
[24:02] Speaker 1: information that is coming about, and using it to mind
[24:06] Speaker 1: control the masses, essentially.
[24:09] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, this comes back to what we were
[24:12] Speaker 3: saying before. One of the ways, one of the main
[24:18] Speaker 3: ways that they can control us It's through propaganda and fear. OK,
[24:23] Speaker 3: those are the two biggies as far as control, because
[24:27] Speaker 3: this is what everything is all about. This is why
[24:29] Speaker 3: they do what they do. This is why they are
[24:31] Speaker 3: what they are. This is why they are what they are,
[24:34] Speaker 3: because they are frightened of us. So the only way
[24:37] Speaker 3: that a few thousand can control a few billion is
[24:40] Speaker 3: through fear and propaganda. And that propaganda includes the falsification
[24:45] Speaker 3: of history to make things appear different to what they
[24:47] Speaker 3: actually are. Because if we have this perception of this
[24:51] Speaker 3: false reality that we live in, and it is a
[24:53] Speaker 3: false reality, nothing is as it seems, then it's very,
[24:58] Speaker 3: very difficult for us to fight back because we're not
[25:01] Speaker 3: fighting a real enemy, if you like, if that makes sense. So, yeah,
[25:07] Speaker 3: I don't know whether that answers the question or not,
[25:10] Speaker 3: but that's kind of what sprung to mind when you
[25:13] Speaker 3: were asking it.
[25:14] Speaker 1: Well, along with all the other information that's come about,
[25:17] Speaker 1: The release of the Epstein files is included in that.
[25:23] Speaker 1: That seems to have no other effect than demoralization at
[25:28] Speaker 1: this point. Zero justice served. The people that were involved
[25:33] Speaker 1: are still going about their lives, most likely doing these operations.
[25:38] Speaker 1: The people now have become desensitized, and with each... new
[25:44] Speaker 1: bit of information that comes out about the horrific actions
[25:48] Speaker 1: of our ruling class, the more desensitization there is. And
[25:53] Speaker 1: people eventually look at this and they say, well, what
[25:55] Speaker 1: are you going to do? That's just the way it is.
[25:57] Speaker 1: That's just the world that we live in. And life
[26:01] Speaker 1: goes on. It goes into the memory hold. That's another
[26:04] Speaker 1: aspect that makes me think that this is all just
[26:07] Speaker 1: being thrown out there because we're at a point in
[26:11] Speaker 1: the overall agenda where it doesn't matter what we know,
[26:14] Speaker 1: we've already gotten past a point of no return, so
[26:18] Speaker 1: to speak.
[26:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, that's a very interesting point. And
[26:23] Speaker 2: I agree.
[26:23] Speaker 3: There's a lot of desensitization going on. It's kind of
[26:28] Speaker 3: making people numb to all the horrors that are happening
[26:32] Speaker 3: in the world today. And, you know, we see that,
[26:35] Speaker 3: you know, I don't do it myself, but if you
[26:37] Speaker 3: switch on the TV, everything you just bombarded with horror
[26:44] Speaker 3: and just really bad stuff, wars, death, famine, tsunamis, you
[26:50] Speaker 3: name it. They've got a ready-made nemesis for us all,
[26:54] Speaker 3: an off-the-shelf nemesis for us all, and that takes many,
[26:57] Speaker 3: many different forms. And again, that's about lowering our vibrations,
[27:01] Speaker 3: making us fearful, making us frightened of what might happen
[27:05] Speaker 3: in the future. We're seeing a lot of that now,
[27:07] Speaker 3: I guess, on TV, on very odd occasions when I
[27:10] Speaker 3: watch it. You know, they talk in World War III
[27:12] Speaker 3: all the time, nuclear attacks, blah, blah, blah. It's just
[27:16] Speaker 3: a way of suppressing us. And it's a way of
[27:19] Speaker 3: instilling that fear into our brains to make us more playable.
[27:23] Speaker 3: So that, you know, it's all the Galian dialectic, isn't it?
[27:26] Speaker 3: You know, so they create this fear. And then we will,
[27:30] Speaker 3: you know, the idea is that we go back to
[27:32] Speaker 3: them and say, help us. You know, you've got to
[27:34] Speaker 3: help us. You've got to do something about all this.
[27:36] Speaker 3: And then they've got a ready-made solution, whatever that might be. So, yeah,
[27:40] Speaker 3: that's how it all works. It's how it always has been,
[27:43] Speaker 3: but I agree. The agenda seems to be really stepping
[27:45] Speaker 3: up at the moment.
[27:47] Speaker 1: Hey, guys, I want to reintroduce you all to C60 Power.
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[28:08] Speaker 1: clarity when adding it to their daily morning routine. I
[28:12] Speaker 1: started taking C60 in 2020, and the benefits I've experienced
[28:16] Speaker 1: are absolutely incredible. I used to be overweight, sick, and
[28:21] Speaker 1: tired all the time. After six months of C60 use,
[28:26] Speaker 1: I lost tons of weight, I got all my energy back,
[28:28] Speaker 1: and I haven't even been sick since then. I'm not
[28:32] Speaker 1: saying that this is because of C60 in any way,
[28:35] Speaker 1: but it happened while I was taking it. One more
[28:38] Speaker 1: thing to reiterate, it's a super antioxidant. Without making any
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[28:53] Speaker 1: Use the link in the description, check out all their products,
[28:56] Speaker 1: including gummies, oils, and even face creams. You'll get 10%
[29:01] Speaker 1: off the entire order by using the link or code
[29:04] Speaker 1: FORBIDDEN10 at checkout. In my perspective, there doesn't seem to be,
[29:10] Speaker 1: nor will there ever be, any blanket solutions that we
[29:13] Speaker 1: could follow to pull out of this. But individually, myself
[29:17] Speaker 1: and many others that I know that participate less and
[29:22] Speaker 1: less in With the anti-human ideologies and the system in general,
[29:27] Speaker 1: their lives tend to get much better. And that seems
[29:30] Speaker 1: to be the key, removing yourself from as much of
[29:33] Speaker 1: it as possible. When you look outside of your window,
[29:37] Speaker 1: everything seems to be fine.
[29:39] Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
[29:40] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[29:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right.
[29:41] Speaker 3: I mean, I have a little meme that I showed
[29:43] Speaker 3: you in my slide presentations when I'm doing my talks.
[29:47] Speaker 2: And it's a split screen. And at one side, it's
[29:49] Speaker 2: this guy. It's a cartoon.
[29:50] Speaker 3: But the guy sat in front of the TV. And
[29:54] Speaker 3: the caption is, how to stop living in fear. And
[29:57] Speaker 3: the next half of the screen says, it just shows
[29:59] Speaker 3: him going click in the TV off. So I just
[30:04] Speaker 3: think that's probably very appropriate.
[30:06] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[30:07] Speaker 3: Don't, don't, don't engage with them is, is, is the
[30:10] Speaker 3: best way to stop living in fear. Again, this is
[30:13] Speaker 3: something that I say to people all the time. And
[30:15] Speaker 3: that is that, you know, people will come up to
[30:17] Speaker 3: me after a talk and they'll say, John, how do
[30:19] Speaker 3: you cope with all this stuff all the time? It's
[30:22] Speaker 3: bombarding us with negativity and, and horror and fear.
[30:26] Speaker 2: I say, well, At first, I was like that.
[30:29] Speaker 3: I mean, I was terrified because I didn't know anybody
[30:32] Speaker 3: else who felt the same way as I did. And
[30:33] Speaker 3: whoever I tried to talk to, they just treated me
[30:36] Speaker 3: as though some kind of idiot. But eventually, over a
[30:39] Speaker 3: long period of time, and I'm not saying it's easy,
[30:42] Speaker 3: but I would advise everyone to try doing this who
[30:45] Speaker 3: does live in fear of the future. Just compartmentalize it.
[30:50] Speaker 3: Just keep it in the little corner of your brain
[30:53] Speaker 3: and only bring it out when you need to.
[30:54] Speaker 2: The rest of the time, Just live.
[30:56] Speaker 3: Your lives, be happy, care for your friends, love your families,
[31:02] Speaker 3: and just ignore what they're doing because that's how I live.
[31:05] Speaker 3: And that's the only way you can actually unplug yourself
[31:10] Speaker 3: from this fear factor.
[31:12] Speaker 1: What role do you think Israel is playing in everything?
[31:17] Speaker 1: There seems to be a lot of information that is
[31:22] Speaker 1: guiding people towards a hatred of Israel. And I'm not
[31:26] Speaker 1: saying that it's unwarranted in any way, but again, this
[31:30] Speaker 1: information is being allowed to be discussed openly right now.
[31:34] Speaker 1: There's so much pushback against quote-unquote anti-Semitism, but yet all
[31:40] Speaker 1: the information is being allowed and they seem to be
[31:43] Speaker 1: pushing towards this overall consciousness shift to where Israel is
[31:49] Speaker 1: the global enemy. And I could be reading that wrong,
[31:53] Speaker 1: but that's the way everything seems to be playing out.
[31:57] Speaker 1: What role do you think that they really play? Are
[31:59] Speaker 1: they a scapegoat or are they a powerful player in
[32:03] Speaker 1: the system?
[32:04] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they are a powerful player.
[32:06] Speaker 3: I think they hold a lot of American politics, not
[32:08] Speaker 3: just American politics, but all Western politics to ransom. You know,
[32:12] Speaker 3: for example, you cannot be a politician in any country
[32:15] Speaker 3: in the Western world, and I would include the U.S.
[32:18] Speaker 3: in that as well, without being a friend of Israel.
[32:21] Speaker 3: I know for a fact in the UK you have
[32:23] Speaker 3: to sign a pledge that says before you can become
[32:27] Speaker 3: an MP, a member of parliament, you've got to sign
[32:30] Speaker 3: a pledge that says you will look after the interests
[32:32] Speaker 3: of Israel, probably even before those of the UK. And
[32:36] Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure that's much the same in the US,
[32:39] Speaker 3: probably even worse, because a massive proportion of American politics
[32:45] Speaker 3: is controlled by Judaism, by Jewishness.
[32:48] Speaker 1: So, yeah.
[32:50] Speaker 3: I think there is a massive, I think, you know,
[32:58] Speaker 3: when people talk about, oh, it's the Jews, it's the Jews.
[33:02] Speaker 2: I don't.
[33:02] Speaker 3: I don't talk like that because it's not the Jews.
[33:05] Speaker 3: It's the Zionists, which is a different thing altogether. If
[33:09] Speaker 3: anybody doesn't know the difference between Judaism and Zionism.
[33:12] Speaker 2: I would ask them to look it up. But it's
[33:14] Speaker 2: not the same.
[33:16] Speaker 3: You know, most normal everyday Jews, you know, the guy
[33:19] Speaker 3: who lives down the street, goes to synagogue on a
[33:21] Speaker 3: Saturday morning.
[33:23] Speaker 2: It's not them.
[33:23] Speaker 1: Right.
[33:24] Speaker 3: You know, they might be brainwashed into believing that they
[33:27] Speaker 3: are some kind of a super race, which, you know,
[33:30] Speaker 3: maybe they are, maybe they aren't. But it's not them
[33:32] Speaker 3: that are doing this. It's the Zionists. It's the controllers
[33:35] Speaker 3: of Israel who are behind most of the mayhem that
[33:38] Speaker 3: goes on. Israel was formed as the result of... This
[33:43] Speaker 3: is for people who don't know this, but Israel was...
[33:46] Speaker 3: was formed as a result of a letter in 1917
[33:50] Speaker 3: called the Balfour Declaration, which was the British Foreign Secretary
[33:54] Speaker 3: at the time, Arthur Balfour, who wrote to Lord Rothschild
[33:58] Speaker 3: and said that they would pledge support for them taking
[34:02] Speaker 3: over Palestine as a homeland for the Jews. And this
[34:06] Speaker 3: is during World War I, by the way, as long
[34:08] Speaker 3: as we got the Jewish support or the Zionist support.
[34:13] Speaker 3: in world war one to help us pull through beat
[34:15] Speaker 3: the germans um so yeah that that was that pledge
[34:19] Speaker 3: was made in 1917 it actually came to fruition in
[34:22] Speaker 3: 1946 after the second world war there's a whole bunch
[34:27] Speaker 3: of convoluted history in between those two dates that led
[34:30] Speaker 3: to it which you know won't go into right now
[34:32] Speaker 3: um but yeah it was israel was created as an
[34:37] Speaker 3: artificial state it was created as a A lot of
[34:41] Speaker 3: people think it's a criminal state whereby they use the
[34:45] Speaker 3: fact of their immunity as a country to actually wreak
[34:51] Speaker 3: havoc within the world and cause mayhem in the Middle.
[34:55] Speaker 2: East, which, you know, they love to do. So, yeah.
[34:59] Speaker 3: So, again, I'm brushing over it very much, but that's
[35:02] Speaker 3: kind of a broad brush idea about what's going on. And, again,
[35:06] Speaker 3: it's probably worth some kind of research if anybody is
[35:09] Speaker 3: questioning that.
[35:11] Speaker 1: Well, the angle I was coming from is that there
[35:14] Speaker 1: is a religious aspect of this, a prophetic aspect, where
[35:21] Speaker 1: Israel has to have a new Messiah. The end of
[35:25] Speaker 1: days is going to be the final battle, but none
[35:28] Speaker 1: of this can come to fruition unless without their new
[35:31] Speaker 1: Messiah and the series of events that we seem to
[35:35] Speaker 1: be heading towards now, it does seem artificially created in
[35:40] Speaker 1: that aspect.
[35:42] Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.
[35:43] Speaker 3: Yeah, you're absolutely right. I wouldn't disagree with a word
[35:47] Speaker 3: of that. But it's all contrived, isn't it? It's all contrived.
[35:52] Speaker 3: They're always completely following this agenda, little step by little
[35:57] Speaker 3: step by little step, and sometimes by bigger steps. But yeah,
[36:01] Speaker 3: it's all part of the push towards ultimate control.
[36:06] Speaker 1: Do you think the spiritual, religious control aspect is purely
[36:11] Speaker 1: that and always has been that these world religions were
[36:16] Speaker 1: created to perpetuate the control systems of these parasitic rulers?
[36:23] Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
[36:24] Speaker 3: I mean, I don't want to offend anybody, but I
[36:26] Speaker 3: do believe that we're going to have The organized religion
[36:30] Speaker 3: is absolutely a control mechanism. Every single organized religion you
[36:35] Speaker 3: can name, it's a control mechanism. It's keeping people in
[36:38] Speaker 3: their little boxes of belief so that they don't stray
[36:41] Speaker 3: outside that and find out what's really going on. Again,
[36:44] Speaker 3: that's a very glib, very broad, basic statement. But I
[36:49] Speaker 3: think that's the purpose of all religions and why they
[36:52] Speaker 3: were founded centuries and centuries ago, whichever stripe of religion
[36:55] Speaker 3: it might be.
[36:57] Speaker 2: And again, I do apologize.
[36:59] Speaker 1: Well, it does seem that there may have been some
[37:01] Speaker 1: very beneficial spiritual beliefs in our ancient past, some genuine connections,
[37:07] Speaker 1: but they all seem to be infiltrated by this parasitic
[37:11] Speaker 1: group and co-opted and changed to something else.
[37:14] Speaker 2: Absolutely.
[37:15] Speaker 3: I mean, I often say I'm not religious, not mainstream religious,
[37:20] Speaker 3: but I am spiritual. I do believe in a creator,
[37:23] Speaker 3: you know, but I don't believe in christian god i
[37:26] Speaker 3: don't believe in the muslim god i don't believe in
[37:28] Speaker 3: the jewish god you know it's a very personal thing
[37:32] Speaker 3: to me you know my spiritual beliefs are very personal
[37:35] Speaker 3: i don't need to be part of a group you
[37:37] Speaker 3: know i believe what i believe and you know that's
[37:41] Speaker 3: that's a private thing it's not something to be shared
[37:44] Speaker 3: on a sunday afternoon or a saturday morning you know
[37:47] Speaker 3: it's it's a personal thing and you know that's just
[37:51] Speaker 3: my belief so.
[37:54] Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about your book, One Giant
[37:57] Speaker 1: Lie to Mankind, The Untold Story of the Apollo Missions.
[38:01] Speaker 1: I am fascinated by the deceptions that NASA has put
[38:05] Speaker 1: forward over the years, the blatant lies about these missions
[38:11] Speaker 1: and basically everything that NASA has done and really stands for.
[38:15] Speaker 1: Give us a synopsis of the book.
[38:18] Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's meant to be a comprehensive debunk of
[38:23] Speaker 3: everything to do with NASA and the moon mission, the
[38:26] Speaker 3: Apollo missions and everything else that's followed on since, you know,
[38:29] Speaker 3: bringing it right up to date with the Artemis thing
[38:33] Speaker 3: earlier this year.
[38:34] Speaker 2: So yeah, it's a look at the entire thing.
[38:37] Speaker 3: You know, we talk about right at the very beginning,
[38:40] Speaker 3: we talk about the secret history of NASA, the political
[38:44] Speaker 3: elements of how that all came about. You know, then
[38:47] Speaker 3: of course we got onto the first man in space,
[38:50] Speaker 3: And the collusion between Kennedy and Khrushchev and the Soviet
[38:56] Speaker 3: space program, the Apollo project, obviously, and how they faked
[39:01] Speaker 3: it and why they faked it. The whole gamut, really.
[39:04] Speaker 3: I mean, it's just a comprehensive debunk of the whole thing.
[39:08] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so easy to debunk. It's so easy to debunk.
[39:11] Speaker 2: It's just untrue. It is.
[39:13] Speaker 1: Just if you look at some of the images and videos,
[39:16] Speaker 1: that raises the red flags right there. And the deeper
[39:19] Speaker 1: you dig, the more you find. Let's talk a little
[39:22] Speaker 1: bit about that secret history of the very beginnings of NASA.
[39:28] Speaker 1: How was this created?
[39:30] Speaker 3: Right. Well, despite what you might read on the Internet
[39:34] Speaker 3: about if you look at the history of NASA, it
[39:36] Speaker 3: doesn't tell you the whole truth. What happened was in
[39:39] Speaker 3: the very late 1940s, a group of people got together.
[39:42] Speaker 3: Some of these people were very famous people and they
[39:46] Speaker 3: were there were five people. And there was a guy
[39:49] Speaker 3: by the name of Jack Whiteside Parsons who formed the
[39:52] Speaker 3: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, which is an adjunct of NASA now.
[39:56] Speaker 2: So he promulgated the Jet Propulsion Laboratory.
[40:01] Speaker 3: He was a rocket scientist, a very early rocket scientist, who,
[40:04] Speaker 3: by the way, blew himself up in his own garage
[40:06] Speaker 3: messing about with rocket fuels. And he was very friendly
[40:11] Speaker 3: with a guy. Some of the viewers might be familiar
[40:15] Speaker 3: with this guy, Alistair Crowley.
[40:17] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
[40:17] Speaker 3: The British occultist. And then we had a guy by
[40:22] Speaker 3: the name of L. Ron Hubbard, again, the founder of
[40:25] Speaker 3: the fake religion of Scientology. And we had a guy,
[40:29] Speaker 3: another quite a famous guy called Walt Disney and another
[40:33] Speaker 3: one by the name of Werner von Braun, who was
[40:37] Speaker 3: part of it was a Nazi rocket scientist and he
[40:40] Speaker 3: was part of Operation Paperclip. the program that actually brought
[40:44] Speaker 3: Nazi scientists into America and to Britain and other countries
[40:48] Speaker 3: as well. So those five people were instrumental in formulating
[40:52] Speaker 3: the idea of a national space agency in the States, obviously.
[40:57] Speaker 3: And what do all those five people have in common?
[41:00] Speaker 3: They were all practicing occultists, if not downright Satanists. So, yeah,
[41:06] Speaker 3: they were the prime movers behind it. Again, I go
[41:10] Speaker 3: into masses of detail about that in that chapter of the.
[41:14] Speaker 2: Book, which is right at the very beginning. Makes sense,
[41:16] Speaker 2: it's at the beginning. So, yeah, that was the real story.
[41:22] Speaker 1: What would you say the hidden occult purpose for the formation,
[41:27] Speaker 1: the original idea of why they wanted to form NASA?
[41:31] Speaker 2: Right, this is where we get into really esoteric stuff, okay?
[41:35] Speaker 2: I love it.
[41:35] Speaker 3: And I don't know how a lot of the people
[41:38] Speaker 3: out there are going to respond to this. But, okay,
[41:43] Speaker 3: they realized at that point in history that the world
[41:49] Speaker 3: and the universe was getting smaller, not physically, but metaphorically smaller.
[41:53] Speaker 2: Okay. And certain facts were coming to light about how the.
[41:58] Speaker 3: Universe worked, not the stuff that they tell us, the
[42:02] Speaker 3: Big Bang Theory and all that absolute nonsense, because it
[42:05] Speaker 3: is all absolute nonsense. And even the actual makeup of
[42:09] Speaker 3: outer space. if it even exists in the way that
[42:12] Speaker 3: they tell us, which I absolutely doubt. I don't cover
[42:15] Speaker 3: all this stuff in the book, by the way, for
[42:16] Speaker 3: anybody who's interested in reading it and thinks, what a
[42:19] Speaker 3: load of rubbish this guy's talking. I don't cover any
[42:22] Speaker 3: of that stuff. It's purely the evidence of what they.
[42:26] Speaker 2: Tell us, if you like. So I don't cover any
[42:28] Speaker 2: of this stuff, but I will for the purposes of
[42:30] Speaker 2: this discussion.
[42:31] Speaker 3: Okay, so the way that they have devised this idea
[42:36] Speaker 3: of what outer space and our so-called universe consists of
[42:40] Speaker 3: is very much an occult thing. Very, very much an
[42:44] Speaker 3: occult thing. It's a Freemasonic slash occultist idea of how
[42:50] Speaker 3: reality and the universe works. It's all nonsense in my view,
[42:55] Speaker 3: in my very humble view, and it is a very
[42:57] Speaker 3: humble view, but that is what I firmly believe. And
[43:00] Speaker 3: the way that they dress up this idea of what
[43:06] Speaker 3: reality consists of and what the universe consists of is
[43:09] Speaker 3: very much an occultist thing. So that's why it was
[43:12] Speaker 3: all done from an occultic point of view.
[43:15] Speaker 1: I can see how it would be difficult for people
[43:18] Speaker 1: to wrap their minds around the possibility that astronomy as
[43:22] Speaker 1: a whole was basically created by these occultists based on
[43:29] Speaker 1: much more ancient understandings of the reality that we're in, basically, right?
[43:36] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.
[43:39] Speaker 3: So yeah, that kind of explains that element of it,
[43:43] Speaker 3: if you like. But as I say, I don't cover
[43:44] Speaker 3: any of that in the book. It's just purely, it's
[43:48] Speaker 3: written from a point of view of accepting the current paradigm,
[43:55] Speaker 3: if you like, of outer space. It's written from that
[43:58] Speaker 3: point of view. So it's easy to debunk even without
[44:01] Speaker 3: that element of it.
[44:03] Speaker 1: What do you think the purpose of rocketry in general was?
[44:09] Speaker 1: If not to actually explore space or send people to
[44:13] Speaker 1: the moon or send out probes, what do you think
[44:15] Speaker 1: the purposes of these were?
[44:17] Speaker 3: I think it was to make believe that the universe
[44:19] Speaker 3: exists in the form that they want us to believe
[44:22] Speaker 3: it exists.
[44:23] Speaker 2: Because why would they do that, John? I hear you ask.
[44:27] Speaker 3: They would do that because they don't want us to
[44:30] Speaker 3: know that we are unique, powerful, spiritual beings. If they
[44:35] Speaker 3: create a world or a universe where we're just one
[44:40] Speaker 3: of billions and billions of civilization in this vast, never-ending universe,
[44:46] Speaker 3: then it reduces us to a state of nothingness. And
[44:50] Speaker 3: it's removing our spiritual power.
[44:54] Speaker 4: If we knew what powerful spiritual beings we were, we'd
[45:01] Speaker 4: finish them just like that. But because they keep us
[45:04] Speaker 4: in this tiny little box of fear and fake reality,
[45:09] Speaker 4: believing that we have no power at all, then that
[45:14] Speaker 4: works for them. And that is exactly what they wanted
[45:16] Speaker 4: to achieve by doing all this. And it might seem
[45:18] Speaker 4: like a very fantastic, incredible, over-elaborate way of doing it,
[45:23] Speaker 4: but this is how these people work. This is really
[45:26] Speaker 4: how these people work.
[45:28] Speaker 1: If not for space exploration, what Did NASA actually become,
[45:35] Speaker 1: was it an intelligence front, money laundering, all of the above?
[45:39] Speaker 2: All of the above.
[45:41] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think it's a monetary black hole,
[45:44] Speaker 3: isn't it? You know, I think they take, last time
[45:47] Speaker 3: I looked, I think it was about $ 30 billion a year,
[45:50] Speaker 3: is it, in taxpayers' money.
[45:53] Speaker 2: Where does that go?
[45:53] Speaker 3: Your guess is as good as mine, but I suspect
[45:56] Speaker 3: it goes into all kinds of black ops. and probably
[45:59] Speaker 3: into the very deep pockets of the people who control
[46:02] Speaker 3: it all. So yeah, it's a money pit and it's
[46:07] Speaker 3: a money sponge.
[46:08] Speaker 2: It's a money extraction machine.
[46:11] Speaker 1: What was the bigger picture of what unfolded during the
[46:14] Speaker 1: space race with Russia? What was really happening behind the
[46:18] Speaker 1: scenes with that?
[46:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a very interesting question, actually. I'm glad you
[46:23] Speaker 2: asked it. Right.
[46:25] Speaker 3: There was no doubt that Kennedy and Khrushchev absolutely collaborated.
[46:30] Speaker 3: What happened in the very early 1960s, this is before
[46:33] Speaker 3: the first man in space in 1961, was that Russia's
[46:36] Speaker 3: grain harvest failed for, I can't remember how many years
[46:40] Speaker 3: it was, but it was quite a few years in
[46:44] Speaker 3: succession and big parts of Russia were starving. So they
[46:50] Speaker 3: came up with this idea that America would ship Millions
[46:56] Speaker 3: of tons of grain to Russia in return for collusion.
[47:03] Speaker 3: And part of that collusion was that Russia would be
[47:05] Speaker 3: allowed to claim the first man in space and America
[47:08] Speaker 3: would be allowed to claim the first man on the moon.
[47:10] Speaker 2: I mean, that's it in a very small nutshell. Yeah, yeah.
[47:15] Speaker 3: But yeah, absolutely. You know, the first man in space
[47:18] Speaker 3: was faked. There's even US newspaper headlines, which some of
[47:22] Speaker 3: them are in the book. I've actually taken facsimile of
[47:24] Speaker 3: them and put them in the book. saying that the
[47:27] Speaker 3: first man in space was a hoax. So yeah, there's
[47:32] Speaker 3: lots and lots of proof that Gagarin, Yuri Gagarin, who
[47:35] Speaker 3: was allegedly the first man in space, it never happened.
[47:39] Speaker 3: And he was killed very shortly afterwards because he was
[47:42] Speaker 3: making so many mistakes when he was being interviewed by
[47:44] Speaker 3: the press, they decided to get rid of him.
[47:46] Speaker 2: So they killed him.
[47:49] Speaker 1: So I imagine there was somewhat of a double cross
[47:51] Speaker 1: with Russia with the moon race landing, right? Yeah.
[47:57] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[47:58] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[47:59] Speaker 3: Um, well it was agreed that the Americans could be
[48:02] Speaker 3: first on them. That's why the Russian, that's why the,
[48:05] Speaker 3: that's why the Russians never questioned it. And the American
[48:09] Speaker 3: government never questioned your Gagarin space flight. The American press
[48:13] Speaker 3: did massively. And I think the public opinion in the
[48:16] Speaker 3: States at that time, 65 years ago also questioned it
[48:21] Speaker 3: massively from when I can gather reading between the lines
[48:24] Speaker 3: and in various publications. but certainly the American government never
[48:28] Speaker 3: questioned it. And the Russian government likewise never questioned the
[48:31] Speaker 3: American moon landings. There was definitely collusion going on there.
[48:37] Speaker 1: What were some of the most important aspects of the
[48:41] Speaker 1: falsification of the moon landing that you included in the book?
[48:46] Speaker 2: Oh gosh.
[48:48] Speaker 1: As far as how they did it.
[48:51] Speaker 2: Well, how they did it.
[48:52] Speaker 3: I mean, it was, it was, Basically, they hired the
[48:58] Speaker 3: most famous filmmaker in the world at that time.
[49:00] Speaker 2: It was Kubrick? That's the one, Stanley Kubrick.
[49:04] Speaker 3: Yeah, and he had developed, he began Free Rain to
[49:11] Speaker 3: construct a film called 2001 Space Odyssey, the year before
[49:15] Speaker 3: the moon landings. And he developed a very successful technique
[49:20] Speaker 3: called front screen projection. And again, there's lots of pictures
[49:24] Speaker 3: in the book that show how it was done. And
[49:26] Speaker 3: he did exactly the same for the moon landings, the
[49:30] Speaker 3: photos that were allegedly.
[49:32] Speaker 2: Taken on the moon.
[49:33] Speaker 3: Very, very clever guy, very meticulous guy. It was a
[49:38] Speaker 3: nightmare to work with, apparently, because he was so particular,
[49:41] Speaker 3: so meticulous in everything he did. But yeah, all the
[49:44] Speaker 3: photography was Kubrick's work. So that's how they did it.
[49:50] Speaker 3: They actually stayed, you know, they created sets to look
[49:58] Speaker 3: like the lunar surface. But I mean, there's so many anomalies.
[50:02] Speaker 3: It's just, you know, I could sit here till midnight and,
[50:05] Speaker 3: you know, and reel.
[50:07] Speaker 2: Them all off. But there's so many anomalies that it
[50:09] Speaker 2: just makes nonsense of it all.
[50:13] Speaker 1: Do you think that there are powerful groups that are
[50:18] Speaker 1: not part of this parasitic power structure that attempt to intervene?
[50:25] Speaker 1: In my perspective, everything that came out with the QAnon phenomena,
[50:30] Speaker 1: 4chan was all a psychological operation to give false hope.
[50:34] Speaker 1: Do you think there are splinter groups that may have
[50:37] Speaker 1: humanity's best interest in mind?
[50:40] Speaker 3: That's a very good question, Christopher. It's very possible. It
[50:44] Speaker 3: is very possible. I wouldn't deny that. But I do
[50:47] Speaker 3: think that a lot of, you know, you mentioned QAnon,
[50:52] Speaker 3: a great example.
[50:53] Speaker 2: I mean, absolutely. You know, come on. It's just, you know,
[50:58] Speaker 2: it's just a, I think the QAnon phenomena And it
[51:03] Speaker 2: was a phenomenon. It's probably still is.
[51:04] Speaker 3: I'm not sure, but, um, I think that was actually
[51:09] Speaker 3: done to make people go, Oh, great.
[51:12] Speaker 2: It's all been taken care of. We don't have to
[51:14] Speaker 2: do anything. Oh, it's all going to be sorted.
[51:16] Speaker 3: Donald Trump's coming to our rescue on his white charger
[51:19] Speaker 3: and QAnon, you know, good old QAnon.
[51:22] Speaker 2: That's it.
[51:22] Speaker 3: Oh, so we can just forget everything, get on with
[51:24] Speaker 3: our lives and it'll all be taken care of. So, yeah,
[51:27] Speaker 3: I think that was a definite psyop. Um, probably still is.
[51:32] Speaker 3: I'm not quite sure what the current state of play
[51:34] Speaker 3: with that is. But as to whether there are any
[51:36] Speaker 3: others that are actively working, I wouldn't be surprised if
[51:40] Speaker 3: there are some small splinter groups that do have humanity's
[51:43] Speaker 3: best interests at heart. But it's a very, very uphill task.
[51:48] Speaker 3: If there are, then they would need to be very,
[51:52] Speaker 3: very careful how they approach it, how they do it.
[51:55] Speaker 3: Because if they were found out or if ever you
[51:59] Speaker 3: know these people got wind of the fact that there's
[52:03] Speaker 3: a group actively working against their best interests then they
[52:07] Speaker 3: wouldn't last two minutes yeah so yeah it's possible that
[52:11] Speaker 3: there are but i don't think we could ever find
[52:13] Speaker 3: out about them because if we if we find out
[52:16] Speaker 3: about them then you know the people who are perpetrating
[52:19] Speaker 3: all this all this stuff know about them as well
[52:22] Speaker 3: so it's a very very dangerous position to put yourself into.
[52:26] Speaker 1: Given the false information that we've been given about our
[52:31] Speaker 1: cosmos and astronomy in general, what are your thoughts about
[52:37] Speaker 1: UFO disclosure and what they're trying to tell us about
[52:39] Speaker 1: extraterrestrial life?
[52:42] Speaker 3: Yeah, well, again, I just think it's part of the psyop.
[52:44] Speaker 2: I don't believe in aliens. I don't believe in outer space.
[52:49] Speaker 2: I don't believe.
[52:50] Speaker 3: I think it's just another way of saying to us, oh, yeah, look,
[52:53] Speaker 3: outer space is real, okay, in a very, kind of
[52:57] Speaker 3: overt way. Outer space is real. Yeah, we're just one
[53:00] Speaker 3: of billions of these civilizations.
[53:02] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[53:02] Speaker 3: You know, there'll be civilizations out there with far superior
[53:07] Speaker 3: technology to us, and they might want to come and
[53:09] Speaker 3: take over the earth. And this is what all this sci-fi,
[53:12] Speaker 3: the sci-fi films, the corny sci-fi films of the 50s
[53:16] Speaker 3: and 60s was all about, you know, and things like
[53:18] Speaker 3: Star Trek as well, of course, just to perpetuate this myth.
[53:23] Speaker 3: other civilizations hostile civilizations out there wanting to come and
[53:27] Speaker 3: take away our beautiful planet.
[53:30] Speaker 1: Could it also be a setup for the next unseen
[53:33] Speaker 1: enemy that daddy government and our military has to protect
[53:37] Speaker 1: us from.
[53:37] Speaker 3: Yeah yeah i mean there's something going on called project
[53:41] Speaker 3: blue beam yeah which you may have heard of and
[53:45] Speaker 3: that is exactly that it's a fake alien invasion um
[53:49] Speaker 3: which Whether they'll ever pull that off, I don't know.
[53:52] Speaker 3: I have my doubts, but I wouldn't put it past them.
[53:56] Speaker 3: For those who are not aware, definitely look up Project Bluebeam.
[53:59] Speaker 3: It's a very, very sophisticated plan to actually create a
[54:05] Speaker 3: fake alien invasion, again, to put us in fear and
[54:10] Speaker 3: to perpetuate this myth about outer space.
[54:15] Speaker 1: Other than a massive asteroid or comet impact, do you
[54:20] Speaker 1: think that it would ever be possible for us to
[54:23] Speaker 1: be completely free of this current rulership that has been
[54:29] Speaker 1: in control for centuries?
[54:32] Speaker 2: Yeah, I do.
[54:33] Speaker 3: I'm a very optimistic person. I get asked this question
[54:36] Speaker 3: a lot, Christopher. And, you know, I believe that it's
[54:40] Speaker 3: an information war, first of all. I think it's not
[54:44] Speaker 3: a physical war. We couldn't possibly hope to fight these
[54:48] Speaker 3: people in any way, shape or form. They have all
[54:50] Speaker 3: the money, all the power, all the infrastructure, all the technology,
[54:55] Speaker 3: you name it. So there's no way on earth that
[54:59] Speaker 3: could ever be a physical war. It is an information war.
[55:03] Speaker 2: And I believe that what you do and what I
[55:06] Speaker 2: do and what other people out there are doing at
[55:10] Speaker 2: spreading the information.
[55:12] Speaker 3: This is our most powerful weapon. This is our most
[55:14] Speaker 3: powerful tool. The more people we tell, the more people
[55:18] Speaker 3: that become aware of what's really going on in the world,
[55:20] Speaker 3: eventually there will come a tipping point. It might not
[55:23] Speaker 3: be in my lifetime, but there will come a tipping point.
[55:25] Speaker 3: And when that happens, these people, these perpetrators, will have
[55:29] Speaker 3: nowhere to run. And that will be the end of that. So, yeah,
[55:34] Speaker 3: I've got a very, very optimistic view of it. because
[55:37] Speaker 3: I'm just a very, very optimistic person anyway in general life.
[55:41] Speaker 3: But yeah, I do believe that good will prevail eventually.
[55:44] Speaker 2: I really do.
[55:45] Speaker 1: Well, there's some belief that there is a massive loss
[55:49] Speaker 1: of power over the past few years because of people's
[55:53] Speaker 1: awareness and the amount of people that are checking out
[55:56] Speaker 1: from some of these anti-human systems. There's a lot of
[56:00] Speaker 1: positive things happening. Would you agree that they may be
[56:06] Speaker 1: losing power in some areas, especially like Hollywood, entertainment industry,
[56:12] Speaker 1: the things that are used for propaganda mainly.
[56:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, I would.
[56:17] Speaker 3: I think that there's no doubt that we, you know,
[56:21] Speaker 3: the truth movement, for want of a better word, we're
[56:24] Speaker 3: making inroads into their superiority. There's no doubt about it.
[56:29] Speaker 3: There's still a long way to go, don't get me wrong.
[56:31] Speaker 3: But yeah, there are little signs that that the cracks
[56:34] Speaker 3: are beginning to appear without a doubt. And this is
[56:37] Speaker 3: making them more scared. It's making them step up the agenda.
[56:40] Speaker 3: And the more they step up the agenda, the more
[56:42] Speaker 3: it wakes people up. So they're caught in a kind
[56:44] Speaker 3: of a catch-22 situation, which is great for us, but
[56:48] Speaker 3: it's still going to be a very, very slow process.
[56:50] Speaker 3: So I wouldn't kind of, you know, get overexcited about it,
[56:55] Speaker 3: although it's a positive step, I do believe.
[56:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, so... Well, right on. This was a fantastic discussion, John.
[57:02] Speaker 1: We'll definitely have to do this again. There's tons more
[57:05] Speaker 1: that we can get to. Before I let you go,
[57:08] Speaker 1: remind the audience how they can pick up your books
[57:10] Speaker 1: and find more about you.
[57:12] Speaker 3: Yeah, sure. I've got a website, falsificationofhistory.co.uk. Anybody that's in
[57:20] Speaker 3: the UK only can order signed copies of any of
[57:24] Speaker 3: my books from there. Sorry, I can't send abroad. It's
[57:27] Speaker 3: just become too ridiculously expensive. And two, unreliable. The International
[57:33] Speaker 3: Postal Service is very, very unreliable. So it was costing
[57:37] Speaker 3: me lots of money to do that. So unfortunately, I
[57:39] Speaker 3: can't do that anymore. But you can buy my books
[57:41] Speaker 3: off Amazon. If you go to amazon.com.ca.co.uk, you will find
[57:50] Speaker 3: my books on there. Just type my name into the
[57:52] Speaker 3: search bar, John Hamer. There is another author on there
[57:57] Speaker 3: called John Hamer, but obviously he doesn't write truth books.
[57:59] Speaker 3: So that isn't me. But all my books are there
[58:02] Speaker 3: on my author page. Yeah, you can actually follow me
[58:06] Speaker 3: on X Twitter as well. I don't post that many things,
[58:11] Speaker 3: but I do post the occasional stuff. And my handle
[58:16] Speaker 3: is at John Hamer author.
[58:19] Speaker 2: So, yeah, please follow me on there. And yeah, all good.
[58:23] Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much, John. Like I said, can't
[58:25] Speaker 1: wait to do it again. And until next time, everyone,
[58:28] Speaker 1: have an excellent evening. We'll talk again tomorrow. Watch Doors
[58:31] Speaker 1: of Perception now on Amazon Prime. Are you and your
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[59:51] Speaker 1: We live in an incredible age of information. More and more,
[59:55] Speaker 1: we're discovering that we've been lied to and misled about
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