# FKN Classics Double Feature! Brian Tuohy - Sports Fixing | Tony Topping - SSP Ops

An episode of [Forbidden Knowledge News](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1470192028), 17 Jul 2026, 2 h 10 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/73027552/classicsbtuyton_sd_360p_medium_fr30_17072026.mp3

Enjoy these back to back throwback episodes! Forbidden Knowledge Network https://forbiddenknowledge.news/ FKN Link Tree https://linktr.ee/FKNlinks Make a Donation to Forbidden Knowledge News https://www.paypal.me/forbiddenknowledgene https://buymeacoffee.com/forbidden FKN Merch! https://galactecfire.com/fkn/ We are back on YouTube! https://youtube.com/@forbiddenknowledgenews?si=XQhXCjteMKYNUJSj Backup channel https://youtube.com/@fknshow1?si=tIoIjpUGeSoRNaEs Doors of Perception is available now on Amazon Prime! https://watch.amazon.com/detail?gti=amzn1.dv.gti.8a60e6c7-678d-4502-b335-adfbb30697b8&ref_=atv_lp_share_mv&r=web Doors of Perception official trailer https://youtu.be/F-VJ01kMSII?si=Ee6xwtUONA18HNLZ Listen to Forbidden Knowledge News on clearair.fm every Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday 12:15pm CST https://clearair.fm/ Pick up Independent Media Token here https://www.independentmediatoken.com/ Be prepared for any emergency with Prep Starts Now! https://prepstartsnow.com/discount/FKN Start your microdosing journey with Brainsupreme Get 15% off your order here!! https://brainsupreme.co/FKN15 Book a free consultation with Jennifer Halcame Email jenniferhalcame@gmail.com Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61561665957079&mibextid=ZbWKwL Watch The Forbidden Documentary: Occult Louisiana on Tubi: https://link.tubi.tv/pGXW6chxCJb C60 PurplePower https://go.shopc60.com/FORBIDDEN10/ or use coupon code knowledge10 Johnny Larson's artwork https://www.patreon.com/JohnnyLarson Sign up on Rokfin! https://rokfin.com/fknplus Podcasts https://www.spreaker.com/show/forbidden Available on all platforms Support FKN on Spreaker https://spreaker.page.link/KoPgfbEq8kcsR5oj9 FKN ON Rumble https://rumble.com/c/FKNp Get Cory Hughes books! Lee Harvey Oswald In Black and White https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FJ2PQJRM A Warning From History Audio book https://buymeacoffee.com/jfkbook/e/392579 https://www.buymeacoffee.com/jfkbook https://www.amazon.com/Warning-History-Cory-Hughes/dp/B0CL14VQY6/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=72HEFZQA7TAP&keywords=a+warning+from+history+cory+hughes&qid=1698861279&sprefix=a+warning+fro%2Caps%2C121&sr=8-1 https://coryhughes.org/ Our Facebook pages https://www.facebook.com/forbiddenknowledgenewsconspiracy/ https://www.facebook.com/FKNNetwork/ Instagram @forbiddenknowledgenews1 @forbiddenknowledgenetwork X https://x.com/ForbiddenKnow10?t=uO5AqEtDuHdF9fXYtCUtfw&s=09 Email Forbidden Knowledge News forbiddenknowledgenews@gmail.com some music thanks to: https://www.bensound.com/ ULFAPO3OJSCGN8LD DGLBEYNSIXA6EMZJ 5FUXWYNC6WJNJKRS 8DH27IXE3D73E97D C6JMAFZLSZDGTWFI Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/forbidden-knowledge-news--3589233/support.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Enjoy these back to back classic Forbidden Knowledge News episodes. Tonight,
[0:07] Speaker 1: I want to welcome Brian to Brian is recognized by
[0:11] Speaker 1: the US Supreme Court as a scholarly authority on game
[0:15] Speaker 1: fixing in sports. He is the author of the highly
[0:18] Speaker 1: controversial sports books The Fixes in the Showbiz Manipulations of
[0:23] Speaker 1: the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, and NASCAR, Larceny Games, Sports Gambling,
[0:31] Speaker 1: Game Fixing and the FBI, A Season in the Abyss,
[0:35] Speaker 1: Sports Gambling Versus the NFL's Integrity, and his most recent
[0:39] Speaker 1: The Fix is Still In More Corruption and Conspiracies the
[0:43] Speaker 1: Pro Sports Leagues Don't Want You To Know About. His
[0:47] Speaker 1: writing can also be found in Sports Illustrated, Vice, Sports,
[0:51] Speaker 1: and Sports on Earth, as well as his website The
[0:54] Speaker 1: fixesin dot Net. Brian Welcome. How are you tonight? I'm
[1:00] Speaker 1: mag in there.
[1:00] Speaker 2: How are you, Chris?
[1:02] Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm good. I understand you got some crazy
[1:04] Speaker 1: weather over there.
[1:06] Speaker 2: Yeah, right on the border of Illinois and Wisconsin. It's
[1:09] Speaker 2: raining cats and dogs and frogs and everything else. But
[1:12] Speaker 2: otherwise I'm okay.
[1:14] Speaker 1: Good, good. Well, hopefully we'll be able to stay connected
[1:18] Speaker 1: and everything will be good. You know, I have never
[1:22] Speaker 1: really been a sports fan, but as an outsider look
[1:26] Speaker 1: it in at some of these major sports events. I
[1:30] Speaker 1: have to say I've always been very suspicious, but for me,
[1:34] Speaker 1: your work has confirmed many of my suspicions. I'd like
[1:40] Speaker 1: to know what got you started doing this.
[1:44] Speaker 2: I think it all started from being a fan of
[1:46] Speaker 2: sports for so long myself. I mean, I grew up
[1:48] Speaker 2: the sports fan and idolized many athletes over the years.
[1:52] Speaker 2: And as I got older, I got more cynical, unfortunately,
[1:56] Speaker 2: And the more I read about sports, because I was
[1:59] Speaker 2: like reading books and that sort of thing, the more
[2:01] Speaker 2: I would find little interesting tidbits here and there in
[2:05] Speaker 2: folks and in articles and elsewhere that made me question everything.
[2:09] Speaker 2: And then there's two books, especially one called Interference by
[2:12] Speaker 2: a guy named Dan Moldea and another one called They
[2:15] Speaker 2: Call It a Game by Bernie Parrish who was a
[2:18] Speaker 2: former NFL player, And those two books really really turned
[2:23] Speaker 2: the light bulb bomb for me.
[2:25] Speaker 1: And once I had.
[2:28] Speaker 2: They had light bulb on, and started doing my own
[2:30] Speaker 2: research and more and more digging into this thing, the
[2:33] Speaker 2: more I came to realize that professional sports really weren't
[2:37] Speaker 2: what they claimed to be. They weren't just really pure
[2:39] Speaker 2: sporting competitions, but they were entertainments, and because they're entertainments,
[2:43] Speaker 2: they are being manipulated for entertainment purposes because that's the
[2:46] Speaker 2: way that leads to make their money is through selling
[2:49] Speaker 2: this product, which is the games that we watch every
[2:52] Speaker 2: weekend on our television.
[2:55] Speaker 1: And you know, sports is most sports teams, they're no
[3:00] Speaker 1: different than any other company or business. They're going to
[3:03] Speaker 1: do whatever they have to do to make their profits
[3:06] Speaker 1: and bottom line and what their fans expect.
[3:08] Speaker 2: Right well, And the thing is that it's not just
[3:12] Speaker 2: the individual teams, it's really the league itself. Because even
[3:17] Speaker 2: the NFL argued in front of the Supreme Court that
[3:20] Speaker 2: they and they said, they literally hit their lawyers say,
[3:23] Speaker 2: we're not thirty two individual teams. We're one entitea and
[3:26] Speaker 2: own as the National Football League. And I think that
[3:29] Speaker 2: something fans really need to take the heart and understand
[3:33] Speaker 2: is that all of these leagues major leat baseball, the NFL,
[3:36] Speaker 2: the NBA, the NHL, they all have revenue sharing. So
[3:42] Speaker 2: what happens is even though one team can go and
[3:45] Speaker 2: pro football can go sixteen and oh and another team
[3:48] Speaker 2: can go oh in sixteen because the NFL shares seventy
[3:52] Speaker 2: to eighty percent of all the revenue all the teams make. Well,
[3:56] Speaker 2: virtually every team makes the same amount of money. So
[3:59] Speaker 2: if they can figure out a way to make more
[4:01] Speaker 2: money leak, why by having league wide they should say,
[4:05] Speaker 2: by having certain storyline platform and then they should or
[4:08] Speaker 2: have certain stars emerged that catch the public's attention, that
[4:11] Speaker 2: gets them watching. Well, that's gonna benefit everybody involved, and
[4:14] Speaker 2: not just the one team that one player is on
[4:17] Speaker 2: or that one team that the storyline revolves around. It's
[4:19] Speaker 2: going to benefit everybody. And the same goes true for
[4:22] Speaker 2: all the other leagues as well, because there's so much
[4:24] Speaker 2: revenue shared amongst the teams. Really, when one team does well,
[4:28] Speaker 2: everybody else profits from it.
[4:31] Speaker 1: That's one of the things I was going to ask
[4:32] Speaker 1: you about. It's kind of like these six or less
[4:34] Speaker 1: companies that run everything that we consume, you know, just
[4:40] Speaker 1: the the six corporations that rule the world. And it's
[4:44] Speaker 1: the same for the NFL. It's all just one one
[4:47] Speaker 1: league basically.
[4:50] Speaker 2: Well, and the amazing thing is is too you know,
[4:52] Speaker 2: like you mentioned, you know the conglomerates like that, you know,
[4:56] Speaker 2: the news media congdolmers are just the media enclomerates that
[4:59] Speaker 2: should probably say, you know, the Disneys that own ESPN
[5:02] Speaker 2: and ABC and everybody else. There's really like, I think
[5:05] Speaker 2: it's four conglomerates, media conglomerates that really fund professional sports
[5:10] Speaker 2: on all levels. I mean, if it wasn't for the
[5:13] Speaker 2: six to seven billion dollars or so a year the
[5:16] Speaker 2: NFL gets from you know, the likes of Fox Sports
[5:19] Speaker 2: and ESPN and NBC Sports and CBS Sports, the NFL
[5:24] Speaker 2: really wouldn't exist because they can't exist on ticket sales.
[5:27] Speaker 2: Major League Baseball probably can because they get you know,
[5:30] Speaker 2: a million, two million dollars or one or two million
[5:33] Speaker 2: fans the season, so they can make money off ticket tales.
[5:36] Speaker 2: But the NBA, the NHL, the National Football League especially
[5:40] Speaker 2: can't exist solely on ticket sales. They really need that
[5:43] Speaker 2: television money that comes in. So really, you have these
[5:46] Speaker 2: major media conglomerates funding these professional sports leagues, and then
[5:50] Speaker 2: they're also the ones that are covering these professional sports
[5:53] Speaker 2: leagues and reporting to us what goes on and what
[5:56] Speaker 2: is news and what isn't news within these leagues, and
[5:58] Speaker 2: so in many ways, they're not going to shoot themselves
[6:01] Speaker 2: in the foot and do investigative reporting upon these league.
[6:04] Speaker 2: They're just gonna let that, you know, corruption side slide,
[6:08] Speaker 2: and they're just going to give you all the raw,
[6:10] Speaker 2: raw information they want to feed you because they want
[6:12] Speaker 2: you to keep watching, because they're invested in the leagues
[6:15] Speaker 2: and everybody makes money together.
[6:17] Speaker 1: Well, that's how I would like to start with the
[6:20] Speaker 1: the NFL. For the die hard fans who have no
[6:24] Speaker 1: idea any of this is going on, what would be
[6:27] Speaker 1: some of the major red flags that you can easily
[6:30] Speaker 1: point out to them just to kind of make them
[6:33] Speaker 1: raise an eyebrow or look at what's going on behind
[6:36] Speaker 1: the scenes.
[6:38] Speaker 2: Well, I think most NHL are most NFL fans should
[6:41] Speaker 2: already have an eyebrow rates. I don't think they need
[6:45] Speaker 2: me to do that, because you know, when you watch
[6:47] Speaker 2: a game on your HDTV at home, and you know,
[6:52] Speaker 2: you clearly see a player is out of bounds on
[6:55] Speaker 2: a play, and then they go to an instant replay
[6:57] Speaker 2: and they review the play and sure enough that guy's
[7:00] Speaker 2: out of bounds, And then the referee comes trotting back
[7:03] Speaker 2: out onto the field and says, after for the review,
[7:06] Speaker 2: we've established that the player was inbounds in its first down,
[7:09] Speaker 2: and the game keeps going and you say to yourself, well, no,
[7:13] Speaker 2: I just saw that he's not in bounced, he was
[7:15] Speaker 2: out abound. How can you rule that he was inbounds? Well,
[7:19] Speaker 2: right there, that shows you the kind of manipulation that
[7:22] Speaker 2: go on with in an NFL game. I mean, there's
[7:24] Speaker 2: no and this is a key takeaway I try to
[7:26] Speaker 2: point out to everybody, but there's no law that exists
[7:30] Speaker 2: on the boats in the United States that prevents a
[7:33] Speaker 2: league like the NFL from fixing or manipulating one of
[7:35] Speaker 2: its own games. There's no law that stops them from
[7:38] Speaker 2: doing it. And I think every fan has seen games
[7:42] Speaker 2: and had questions about certain calls. There's certain plays, there's
[7:45] Speaker 2: certain outcomes, and it goes back to the fact that
[7:48] Speaker 2: if they want to manipulate the game, they can, And
[7:51] Speaker 2: so you have to ask yourself, why wouldn't they manipulate it?
[7:54] Speaker 2: And I think that's where you really need to start from.
[7:56] Speaker 2: Why wouldn't they do this when they have the legal
[7:59] Speaker 2: ability to do so?
[8:02] Speaker 1: Other than the players just completely throwing the games, what
[8:06] Speaker 1: would be some of the other ways besides the one
[8:10] Speaker 1: you just mentioned that they may try and just manipulate
[8:13] Speaker 1: little things here and there about the game.
[8:16] Speaker 2: Well, I think officiating does a lot, because officiating can
[8:19] Speaker 2: really change momentum, especially in the NFL, in the NBA,
[8:24] Speaker 2: and in the NFL. You know, one penalty given at
[8:27] Speaker 2: the right time can just throw a game for a loop.
[8:31] Speaker 2: I mean, I think for the NFL, for example, we
[8:33] Speaker 2: just had a very good example happened last year in
[8:36] Speaker 2: the NFC Championship game between the Rams and the Saints,
[8:40] Speaker 2: where there was a clear pass interference penalty on the
[8:44] Speaker 2: Rams that was not flat, but there was two officials,
[8:47] Speaker 2: one standing on either side of the play, not ten
[8:50] Speaker 2: yards away from it, if that maybe five yards away
[8:53] Speaker 2: from it, clearly saw this Rams defensive fact just lamb Bath,
[8:57] Speaker 2: the Saints wide receiver, well before the ball ever got
[9:00] Speaker 2: to him, and no flag was thrown, no penalty was called,
[9:04] Speaker 2: and it literally that play altered the outcome of the game.
[9:07] Speaker 2: It turned it around, allowed the Rams to win the
[9:09] Speaker 2: game and then the Rams to the Super Bowl, while
[9:11] Speaker 2: the Saints said home and powered it over it. But
[9:14] Speaker 2: the fact of the matter is, you know, if Saint
[9:16] Speaker 2: Frans actually sued the NFL over that call, because they
[9:21] Speaker 2: really just demanded justice because it was so egregiously bad,
[9:25] Speaker 2: they sued the league there's four laws to three of
[9:27] Speaker 2: them federal, one state level. In Louisiana, the three federal
[9:32] Speaker 2: ones got tossed out and just recently the state one
[9:35] Speaker 2: got tossed out by Louisiana's Supreme Court and they basically
[9:39] Speaker 2: said what I say. And the fact is there's no
[9:42] Speaker 2: law that exists that says an official or a league
[9:45] Speaker 2: has to officiate its game in a certain way. So
[9:49] Speaker 2: tough luck fans. That's the way the all bounces.
[9:54] Speaker 1: Now. Would you say that this corruption would start at
[9:57] Speaker 1: the college level.
[10:01] Speaker 2: Well, it depends you know which way you're looking at.
[10:03] Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I think if you wanted to
[10:05] Speaker 2: corrupt an athlete these days, really kids I think get
[10:10] Speaker 2: corrupted like at junior high level. I mean, I know
[10:13] Speaker 2: it sounds insane, but when you think about it, I mean,
[10:16] Speaker 2: I went to high school with a guy who wound
[10:19] Speaker 2: up being an NBA player and he played in the
[10:21] Speaker 2: league for like ten years, and when he was in
[10:24] Speaker 2: high school, when I was a kid, he was given
[10:27] Speaker 2: special treatment in high school. I mean I went to
[10:29] Speaker 2: a Catholic high school, private school. Somebody else, not his family,
[10:34] Speaker 2: but somebody else paid this kid tuition to go to
[10:37] Speaker 2: that school. Basically to play basketball. So right there at
[10:40] Speaker 2: the high school level, and like I said, there's probably
[10:42] Speaker 2: even thinks the junior high level will be fine. Well,
[10:45] Speaker 2: where you know, this kid has kind of been introduced
[10:48] Speaker 2: to corruption. He's seeing that, Hey, this is what basketball
[10:51] Speaker 2: can do for me. This is what I can get
[10:53] Speaker 2: out of being a good athlete. I can get free stuff,
[10:56] Speaker 2: I can get preferential treatment. And so when that starts,
[10:59] Speaker 2: like say the junior at high and high school level,
[11:02] Speaker 2: and then the advances on the college and more, we
[11:04] Speaker 2: can happen when they get recruited. You know, they're giving
[11:06] Speaker 2: money under the table, they're doing cars under the table,
[11:09] Speaker 2: given women under the table. I mean, they're given everything,
[11:13] Speaker 2: and there's treated special. They're given a scholarship, they're given
[11:16] Speaker 2: special dorm rooms, they're given special you know, you've seen
[11:20] Speaker 2: some of these crazy, insane college football locker rooms that
[11:24] Speaker 2: are better than anything I've ever been in or stayed in.
[11:27] Speaker 2: And I mean it just advances all the with the
[11:28] Speaker 2: professional level. They're in a way corrupted from the get
[11:32] Speaker 2: go as athletes, and so I think when you've been
[11:34] Speaker 2: corrupted that long, when you'd get to the point perhaps
[11:38] Speaker 2: in the professional game or even just a college game
[11:40] Speaker 2: and someone asks you to do something that's not on
[11:43] Speaker 2: the level, you might think to yourself, well, this is
[11:46] Speaker 2: just the way the business goes. This is what I
[11:47] Speaker 2: need to do. Let's do it.
[11:51] Speaker 1: And when you're dealing with, you know, any kind of
[11:54] Speaker 1: gambling in these professional sports, I would think there's a
[11:58] Speaker 1: higher likelihood of being fixed somehow. And you know, definitely
[12:03] Speaker 1: there is involvement with the mob in you know, with
[12:07] Speaker 1: these gambling on these large games.
[12:13] Speaker 2: Well, you know, that's the hard thing to determine is
[12:15] Speaker 2: how much arganized time could potentially be involved in at all.
[12:20] Speaker 2: You know, they have a wide range of estimates of
[12:24] Speaker 2: how much illegal sports gambling goes on in the United
[12:28] Speaker 2: States right now, and as more and more states legalize,
[12:32] Speaker 2: you know, sports gambling, we can kind of more or
[12:35] Speaker 2: less guess a truer number. But I mean I've heard
[12:37] Speaker 2: estimates of anywhere from one hundred billion dollars to it
[12:40] Speaker 2: where it's a four hundred billion dollars. Are we just
[12:44] Speaker 2: illegally in the United States on sports? So nobody really
[12:48] Speaker 2: knows the true number. But if it's one hundred billion dollars,
[12:50] Speaker 2: because it's the low estimate, which I think is a
[12:52] Speaker 2: very believable estimate. Then that's four times the amount of
[12:56] Speaker 2: money made by the NFL, NBA, Major League Baseball, and
[13:00] Speaker 2: the NHL combined. So gambling on sports actually dwarfs the
[13:05] Speaker 2: revenue of the sports leagues. And if you don't think
[13:09] Speaker 2: that that kind of money could potentially influence the outcome games,
[13:13] Speaker 2: I think you're being quite naive.
[13:16] Speaker 1: There's so many people that have their livelihoods on, you know,
[13:19] Speaker 1: betting on these games. You know, I'm sure that those
[13:24] Speaker 1: high stakes make it even more you know, susceptible to
[13:28] Speaker 1: being fixed.
[13:32] Speaker 2: Well, it's you know, it's the thing was I think
[13:35] Speaker 2: fixing the game is is kind of part of a
[13:38] Speaker 2: crime of opportunity. You know, you have to kind of
[13:42] Speaker 2: have an end with an athlete or a coach or
[13:44] Speaker 2: referee or something in order to fix a game. I
[13:47] Speaker 2: don't think, you know, if you were a mobster, or
[13:51] Speaker 2: even if you were a high level gambler or whatever,
[13:53] Speaker 2: I don't think you could just randomly pick a game
[13:55] Speaker 2: and say, hey this, you know, Sunday's Vikings Packers game.
[13:59] Speaker 2: I'm going to go out there and pick. I think
[14:01] Speaker 2: you have to have, you know, already have established some
[14:03] Speaker 2: sort of in or something to get corruption into that game.
[14:07] Speaker 2: But I think going back again to we were talking
[14:10] Speaker 2: about when do kids get corrupted? You know, if you
[14:13] Speaker 2: get your hooks into a kid at the high school
[14:16] Speaker 2: level or at the college level and get him into
[14:19] Speaker 2: this world of potentially shaving points in sixing games at
[14:23] Speaker 2: a young age, well then they could carry through easily
[14:26] Speaker 2: professional level. And that's what's been seen and proven, like
[14:29] Speaker 2: in soccer around the world, that they get into these
[14:33] Speaker 2: kids when they're in these under seventeen leagues and stuff,
[14:35] Speaker 2: and start treating them differently, giving them special favors, giving
[14:39] Speaker 2: them money, and that sort of thing, and that leads
[14:41] Speaker 2: to you know, potentially fictioning professional level soccer matches. Why
[14:45] Speaker 2: can't the same thing be happening here in the United States.
[14:50] Speaker 1: One thing I found interesting that you wrote about was
[14:52] Speaker 1: the how the FBI investigated athletes after the Bribery Act.
[14:58] Speaker 1: Could you talk a little bit about that.
[15:02] Speaker 2: I wrote a whole bug about that that. Yeah, that's
[15:04] Speaker 2: not their story, but anyway it goes. Really what happened
[15:08] Speaker 2: was in the nineteen sixty nineteen sixty four specifically, Congress
[15:12] Speaker 2: passed what's called the Sports Bribery Act. It's a really
[15:15] Speaker 2: simple law, and it basically says you cannot bribe a coach,
[15:19] Speaker 2: an athlete, for a referee to alter the outcome of
[15:23] Speaker 2: a sporting event. I mean, it's really like that's all
[15:26] Speaker 2: really says like three senses. And that goes back to,
[15:29] Speaker 2: you know, when people say, well, howckey, you say it's
[15:31] Speaker 2: you know a league can fix its own game. Well,
[15:35] Speaker 2: if you look at that law, its specifically you cannot
[15:37] Speaker 2: bribe someone to alter the outcome of the game. Well,
[15:41] Speaker 2: you know, and the NFL said to one of the officials, hey,
[15:44] Speaker 2: we want you to call this game in a certain way,
[15:47] Speaker 2: you know, maybe ignore holding penalties, focused on defensive pass
[15:50] Speaker 2: interference penalties, what have you. They're not bribing their officials
[15:55] Speaker 2: to do this. They're just telling their employees how they
[15:58] Speaker 2: want them to do their job. So there's no bribery involved,
[16:01] Speaker 2: there's no law being broken. But when that law was
[16:05] Speaker 2: passed in the nineteen fifties, it really stemmed from all
[16:07] Speaker 2: the game fixing that was occurring in college sports, specifically
[16:10] Speaker 2: college basketball, and that started the FBI actually actively investigating
[16:16] Speaker 2: leads about game fixing and point shaving in college sports
[16:20] Speaker 2: in the NFL, in the NBA, in major League Baseball,
[16:24] Speaker 2: and they had mountains and mountains of evidence that this
[16:26] Speaker 2: was going on all over the place in the United States.
[16:29] Speaker 2: The problem was they could never get enough to really,
[16:34] Speaker 2: you know, arrest somebody or convict somebody of this crime, because,
[16:38] Speaker 2: you know, if they had good information coming from a
[16:40] Speaker 2: mobster or coming from you know, a bookie that said, hey,
[16:45] Speaker 2: this athlete is working with this guy and they're trying
[16:47] Speaker 2: to fix this game, he would say they had information
[16:50] Speaker 2: ahead of time, and what they learned became perfectly true,
[16:53] Speaker 2: didn't prove that that game was indeed fixed by that athlete.
[16:57] Speaker 2: So what they would try to do is get you know,
[16:59] Speaker 2: another game fixed by the same people, or they tried
[17:01] Speaker 2: to get wired to have for get to meet best
[17:03] Speaker 2: to it, none of which would have worked out. And
[17:05] Speaker 2: so the FBI had bigger fish to fry, and they
[17:07] Speaker 2: let the matter drop. And that's what happened time and
[17:09] Speaker 2: time and again. But they had great evidence that this
[17:13] Speaker 2: was going on, and at the same time, the NBA
[17:16] Speaker 2: and the NFL especially acted like there was nothing to see, like, oh,
[17:20] Speaker 2: there's no way this could be happening.
[17:24] Speaker 1: And I understand that you got your hands on a
[17:26] Speaker 1: very interesting FBI training video. Could you tell us about that?
[17:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, excuse me. It was something actually the FBI wasn't
[17:40] Speaker 2: supposed to give me, and I really it's funny even
[17:44] Speaker 2: though it's kind of a big deal. I don't remember
[17:46] Speaker 2: how I actually found out about the video, but I
[17:50] Speaker 2: did somehow, and through the Freedom Information Act, I obtained
[17:53] Speaker 2: well over four hundred files through from the FBI based
[17:57] Speaker 2: on this whole sports bribery and game fixing investigations that
[18:01] Speaker 2: they did, and it led me to this video, and
[18:04] Speaker 2: so I requested the video. And it was funny because
[18:07] Speaker 2: I was going back and forth with one of the
[18:09] Speaker 2: Freedom of Information Act officers and she was helping me,
[18:13] Speaker 2: and she's like, you know, I gotta edit this video,
[18:15] Speaker 2: and I gotta have time to edit the video because
[18:17] Speaker 2: they have to pull certain things out sames with the files,
[18:20] Speaker 2: they had to eliminate certain names. They actually would black
[18:23] Speaker 2: out the screen and allow the audio to run at
[18:25] Speaker 2: a certain times. Sometimes they would cut out the audio
[18:28] Speaker 2: completely and let the picture run. And sometimes they would
[18:31] Speaker 2: literally edit out complete sections out of the movie. But
[18:34] Speaker 2: I probably got at least eighty percent of it, and
[18:38] Speaker 2: it's probably half an hour long, but I got is
[18:40] Speaker 2: about twenty minutes or so. But it's amazing because watching
[18:44] Speaker 2: this video and what it was was the video of
[18:46] Speaker 2: the FBI would use when they would go make these
[18:49] Speaker 2: presentations to sports teams and they would do a professional
[18:52] Speaker 2: in college team to talk about the dangerous gambling, talk
[18:55] Speaker 2: about the dangers of drugs, and introduced this video. It's
[18:59] Speaker 2: kind to help get the message across. And then the
[19:02] Speaker 2: video basically clearly states that games have been fixed in
[19:05] Speaker 2: the past, which is amazing because the NFL, in the
[19:09] Speaker 2: NBA and everybody else claiming, well, this never happened. Well
[19:12] Speaker 2: this video states, yeah, it's happened. It's happened before, it's
[19:16] Speaker 2: gonna happen again unless you athletes pay attention to what
[19:19] Speaker 2: the FBI is telling you. So it's a really interesting
[19:22] Speaker 2: film because it's something that I cannot release because the
[19:27] Speaker 2: FBI warned me not to release it.
[19:31] Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's very interesting now something that well I
[19:37] Speaker 1: was gonna say.
[19:39] Speaker 2: And the funny part with me not being able to
[19:40] Speaker 2: release it is I was actually on the Alex Jones
[19:43] Speaker 2: show and I told him about it and after the show,
[19:48] Speaker 2: you gotta give us the video, you know, you gotta.
[19:49] Speaker 2: We're gonna we'll make a public and all that. I said, well, dude,
[19:52] Speaker 2: I can't leak it because I'm the only one who
[19:57] Speaker 2: has it and the FBI know. So if I were to,
[20:02] Speaker 2: you know, leak this redacted video, they're going to know
[20:06] Speaker 2: exactly who did it and me because I'm the only
[20:08] Speaker 2: one who has it. So it wasn't like it was
[20:11] Speaker 2: something that I could kind of back door and you know,
[20:14] Speaker 2: get out there. I was just kind of I'm stuck
[20:16] Speaker 2: with it, unfortunately. But in my book and the fix
[20:19] Speaker 2: is still in, I really kind of detailed. I can't
[20:21] Speaker 2: stop me from writing about it, So I kind of
[20:23] Speaker 2: detail everything that's in the video in the book. But
[20:26] Speaker 2: it's funny because I really would like to release it,
[20:28] Speaker 2: but I just know I can't because it all come
[20:30] Speaker 2: back to meet.
[20:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, I can see how it'd be very tempting to
[20:34] Speaker 1: release that video.
[20:36] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it totally is because it takes me pretty
[20:40] Speaker 2: It's pretty well done.
[20:41] Speaker 3: I mean.
[20:41] Speaker 2: It's actually hosted by Greg Gumble who's on CBS Sports.
[20:45] Speaker 2: It features a lot of you know, prominent athletes like
[20:47] Speaker 2: Wayne Gretzky's on there, like Bob Gibson's on there to
[20:51] Speaker 2: talk about the Pete Rose scandal. They talk about a
[20:53] Speaker 2: lot of things, but there's stuff in there that's not
[20:56] Speaker 2: very widely known. And that's the stuff that's really interesting.
[21:01] Speaker 1: Now when it comes to to gambling in the NFL,
[21:05] Speaker 1: something that I'm not familiar with and don't really understand,
[21:09] Speaker 1: and I was hoping maybe you could explain it to
[21:11] Speaker 1: me and my viewers that don't really you know, follow
[21:15] Speaker 1: sports or are not sure about it. Is how bookies
[21:20] Speaker 1: can manipulate the point spread. And you know, I know
[21:25] Speaker 1: they can do this in different ways, but could you
[21:27] Speaker 1: kind of explain how the point spread works and how
[21:31] Speaker 1: this could possibly be manipulated to the bookies' advantage.
[21:36] Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the point spread is a made up number.
[21:39] Speaker 2: First of all, you know, there's no set way of
[21:44] Speaker 2: making a point spread on a football game. So like,
[21:47] Speaker 2: for example, like this weekend, the Packers are playing the
[21:50] Speaker 2: like say, just for sake, argument that the Packers are
[21:54] Speaker 2: favored by three points. That doesn't mean that the bookies
[22:00] Speaker 2: or whoever made that line necessarily think that the Packers
[22:04] Speaker 2: will go in the game twenty three to twenty and
[22:07] Speaker 2: that's why it's their three point favorite in the game.
[22:10] Speaker 2: What it is is they create the line in many
[22:13] Speaker 2: ways because they think the bookies think this is what
[22:16] Speaker 2: the public stinks. And what they try to do is,
[22:21] Speaker 2: in a perfect world, get half the money bet on
[22:24] Speaker 2: the Packers with that negative three line, and have the
[22:27] Speaker 2: money bet on the vikings of the plus three line,
[22:30] Speaker 2: and try to basically make their money off what they
[22:33] Speaker 2: call the vigorous, the ten percent that the bookie takes
[22:37] Speaker 2: from winning bets. But again, that's a perfect world. That
[22:41] Speaker 2: doesn't always happen. So what happens is a lot of
[22:43] Speaker 2: times and not as much now as the line is
[22:47] Speaker 2: kind of, you know, more well spread across the United States.
[22:50] Speaker 2: But back in the day, you know, if you were
[22:53] Speaker 2: in Green Bay and you were the bookie, well you
[22:56] Speaker 2: know everybody's going to bet on Green Bay, so they
[22:58] Speaker 2: might manipulate the line and says that, and you know,
[23:00] Speaker 2: Packers minus three, they would make it Packers minus four
[23:04] Speaker 2: or minus five, because actually a point or half a
[23:06] Speaker 2: point makes a huge different a lot of times in
[23:09] Speaker 2: betting if you're really professional about it. But they would
[23:12] Speaker 2: shade the line based on the area they lived in,
[23:15] Speaker 2: and even maybe if you're in Minnesota, the line wouldn't
[23:17] Speaker 2: be necessarily Packers minus three, but it'd be minus two
[23:20] Speaker 2: or minus one because so many people are gonna bet
[23:22] Speaker 2: on the Vikings, so they manipulate the line a lot
[23:26] Speaker 2: of times on public perception and of regions, and that's
[23:30] Speaker 2: one of the ways that they can kind of finagle
[23:33] Speaker 2: things around.
[23:36] Speaker 1: Very interesting now one of the things that recently, looking back,
[23:43] Speaker 1: you know, makes me kind of raise an eyebrow, especially
[23:47] Speaker 1: because you had written about it. But when major disasters
[23:53] Speaker 1: or events happen, for example, like Hurricane Katrina, and then
[23:58] Speaker 1: all of a sudden the Saints went the Super Bowl,
[24:01] Speaker 1: you know, at the time, I didn't think anything, but
[24:03] Speaker 1: now looking back, it's it's like, huh, that's very convenient
[24:08] Speaker 1: that they won that year. What are your thoughts on that?
[24:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it's amazing how coincidental some of the
[24:15] Speaker 2: stuff can become. I think it's remarkable actually, how coincidental
[24:20] Speaker 2: it is. And I don't actually think it's a coincident
[24:22] Speaker 2: at all anymore because you had you know, there's not
[24:26] Speaker 2: many major major disasters that really seem to I don't
[24:32] Speaker 2: know what the best word is to use, but kind
[24:34] Speaker 2: of catch hold on national level. And interestingly, you know,
[24:39] Speaker 2: you had nine to eleven happen, which we're talking on
[24:43] Speaker 2: nine eleven believed or not eighteen years ago, and right
[24:47] Speaker 2: after nine to eleven happened, the Yankees went to the
[24:50] Speaker 2: World Series nearly won the World Series, right And at
[24:53] Speaker 2: the same time, the Patriots after nine to eleven, which
[24:56] Speaker 2: where a team nobody thought anything of, led by Tom
[24:58] Speaker 2: Brady in the birth year, wound up winning the Super Bowl,
[25:01] Speaker 2: which is really convenient when they turned the whole Super
[25:03] Speaker 2: Bowl into this big patriotic display after nine to eleven
[25:06] Speaker 2: that the team named the Patriots happened to win that
[25:10] Speaker 2: Super Bowl. And then, as you mentioned, after Hurricane Katrina
[25:13] Speaker 2: impacted New Orleans so bad, like two or three years later,
[25:17] Speaker 2: the Saints won the Super Bowl, and there was the
[25:19] Speaker 2: whole storyline how the Saints that helped rebuild New Orleans
[25:22] Speaker 2: and they become America's team and somebody everybody's America's rooting for,
[25:25] Speaker 2: and on behold, they win the Super Bowl. And even
[25:27] Speaker 2: more recently, he has a hurricane that hit Houston, and
[25:30] Speaker 2: Houston became hashtag Houston Strong, and they won the World Series.
[25:34] Speaker 2: And then you had the shootings in Las Vegas at
[25:37] Speaker 2: the same year that the Las Vegas hockey team debut,
[25:39] Speaker 2: and suddenly the Golden Knights were hashti hashtags Vegas strong
[25:43] Speaker 2: and they made it the Stanley Cup finals. And it's amazing.
[25:46] Speaker 2: Every time a team suddenly gets hitched or attached to
[25:51] Speaker 2: some sort of disaster, that team has amazing success. You
[25:56] Speaker 2: had the Bruins in the Red Sox reached the finals
[25:59] Speaker 2: in each of their league the same year to Boston
[26:01] Speaker 2: Marathon bombing took place. I mean, how coincidental is this?
[26:06] Speaker 2: How often can this happen? For people to wait a second,
[26:10] Speaker 2: there's not There's something not right about it at all.
[26:13] Speaker 1: Now on the other side of that, do you think
[26:15] Speaker 1: that if there's a certain say, product or idea or
[26:20] Speaker 1: something that just they want to get across and promote
[26:25] Speaker 1: that a certain team could win to promote that product,
[26:28] Speaker 1: idea or something that they want to kind of push
[26:32] Speaker 1: on people.
[26:34] Speaker 2: Such as what I mean, is there some specific.
[26:36] Speaker 1: Mean or I'm just wondering in general, if you've ever
[26:40] Speaker 1: come across you know, teams winning to you know, to
[26:44] Speaker 1: push any specific agendas or or different products or anything like.
[26:49] Speaker 2: That, you know, the products that I've never really I say,
[26:53] Speaker 2: I never really thought about it, to be honest. Thanks
[26:56] Speaker 2: you a good point, But I mean there were certain
[26:58] Speaker 2: things like if you might remember a few years ago
[27:00] Speaker 2: when Tim Tebow was the whole rage. Tebow was, you know,
[27:06] Speaker 2: a big college football player, but as a pro he
[27:08] Speaker 2: didn't look like much of anything. And he had like
[27:11] Speaker 2: really a half a year of amazingly crazy success with
[27:16] Speaker 2: the Denver Broncos and then really disappeared from football. But
[27:19] Speaker 2: it kind of launched him from that point on as
[27:22] Speaker 2: a celebrity of sorts. But I think that he was
[27:25] Speaker 2: such a storyline for that half a year to Broncos
[27:28] Speaker 2: that I think it was artificially created. And I think
[27:31] Speaker 2: that's part of this whole idea of manipulating games, is
[27:35] Speaker 2: Teba wasn't I mean, he's talented as an athlete, but
[27:38] Speaker 2: as a quarterback, as a you know, NFL professional quarterback,
[27:42] Speaker 2: he really wasn't very good. But they there was just
[27:46] Speaker 2: enough there that the league kind of, I think, like
[27:48] Speaker 2: I say, manipulate him into greater success than should have
[27:51] Speaker 2: occurred because they realized it was a storyline. People were
[27:54] Speaker 2: tuning in to watch him. He became a national celebrity
[27:57] Speaker 2: and it something they could profit off. But at the
[27:59] Speaker 2: same time, they couldn't make him a ten or twelve
[28:02] Speaker 2: year veteran because they can only fake it so long.
[28:06] Speaker 2: I think that's the thing that I try to also
[28:08] Speaker 2: get across the people is there has to be talent involved.
[28:11] Speaker 2: I mean, you can't make some schlub into Lebron James.
[28:15] Speaker 2: Lebron James is legitimately talented. What you can do is
[28:19] Speaker 2: you can help Lebron James win more often than he should,
[28:22] Speaker 2: maybe get to the NBA Finals more than he should,
[28:25] Speaker 2: but he still has to be able to shoot the basket,
[28:27] Speaker 2: gore points and do what he does. You can't just
[28:29] Speaker 2: have anybody do that. And I think the best part
[28:32] Speaker 2: of it is, I think you know people as complaining, well,
[28:34] Speaker 2: if they're fixing games, why don't they pick that thell
[28:36] Speaker 2: the Browns win the Super Bowl, or the Jets win
[28:38] Speaker 2: the Super Bowl, the Lions win the Super Bowl. Well,
[28:40] Speaker 2: they don't have necessarily the talent there to fake an
[28:45] Speaker 2: entire season. They can maybe take a game, fix a game,
[28:49] Speaker 2: manipulate here or there, but they can't necessarily, you know,
[28:52] Speaker 2: really just outright force the team into the finals, because
[28:56] Speaker 2: I think then it would become suspicious and people would
[28:59] Speaker 2: raise an eyebrow. But if you have a talented team
[29:01] Speaker 2: that you just give a little help to here or there,
[29:04] Speaker 2: through officiating, through it maybe fixing the game, even that's
[29:08] Speaker 2: something that won't necessarily go Notice.
[29:12] Speaker 1: One thing I noticed is you very very rarely ever
[29:16] Speaker 1: hear anything about corruption in sports. I mean especially from
[29:20] Speaker 1: sports writers. I imagine that talking about it would be
[29:25] Speaker 1: sort of a career end or wouldn't you think.
[29:29] Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it doesn't help me, I'll tell you that,
[29:35] Speaker 2: but it you know, I think it goes back to
[29:37] Speaker 2: what we talked about earlier is you know, the you know,
[29:40] Speaker 2: the espns of the world literally fund the league's they cover,
[29:46] Speaker 2: and so you can't, as ESPN give the NFL nearly
[29:50] Speaker 2: two billion dollars a year and then turn around and
[29:53] Speaker 2: do all this investigative reporting and unveil all this corruption
[29:57] Speaker 2: within the NFL. I mean, just the stupidest business thing
[30:00] Speaker 2: you could do. So I think they constantly avoid that
[30:04] Speaker 2: and that that's part of the issue. Is the major
[30:07] Speaker 2: you know radio networks that cover you know, the NFL,
[30:11] Speaker 2: the NBA, major League Baseball are ESPN and CBS and NBC.
[30:16] Speaker 2: Well they are also the leagues that you know, the
[30:19] Speaker 2: networks that fund those leagues. So I mean, you know,
[30:21] Speaker 2: there's nowhere you can go to get independent objective sports reporting.
[30:28] Speaker 2: It doesn't you know, exist, and you can't most places,
[30:31] Speaker 2: even if you have an outlet like I mean there's
[30:33] Speaker 2: a place called like the Athletic that's online. You know,
[30:36] Speaker 2: even if they have that, they don't have the resources, money,
[30:42] Speaker 2: and even I think the wherewithal to do heavy duty
[30:45] Speaker 2: investigative reporting because it takes time and effort. I mean
[30:47] Speaker 2: I wrote an article that wound up in Sports Illustrated
[30:50] Speaker 2: that me and this other guy, Lance Williams put together.
[30:53] Speaker 2: It literally took us a year to get it. You know,
[30:57] Speaker 2: from the time I started the story till it time
[31:00] Speaker 2: it was finally published was a year, and we made
[31:03] Speaker 2: honestly between the two of us, about two thousand dollars
[31:06] Speaker 2: for that year's worth of work. Well you can't live
[31:08] Speaker 2: on that, so you know, you have to have that
[31:13] Speaker 2: support from somebody to fund you to order to do
[31:17] Speaker 2: this stuff. And I don't think anybody wants the fund
[31:20] Speaker 2: of that sort of investigate reporting into sports because it's entertainment.
[31:24] Speaker 2: It's supposed to be fun, it's supposed to be upbeat,
[31:26] Speaker 2: and it's supposed to be light, and that's what they want,
[31:28] Speaker 2: so that's what you get.
[31:31] Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about basketball. What would be
[31:37] Speaker 1: some of the red flags for you when you started
[31:41] Speaker 1: researching this that you saw in basketball that may be corrupt.
[31:50] Speaker 2: I think Michael Jordan's whole career, I think there was
[31:53] Speaker 2: a red flag because you had at the time the NBA.
[31:59] Speaker 2: Was matt a big league? It was, I mean it
[32:02] Speaker 2: was a big league in terms of his professional level
[32:04] Speaker 2: of basketball, but in terms of actual you know, fans
[32:08] Speaker 2: and you know, watching and the money coming in, it
[32:10] Speaker 2: was not that big of a professional sports league. And
[32:14] Speaker 2: Michael Jordan first on the team, and he obviously, again
[32:17] Speaker 2: like Lebron James brychim before, he obviously has talents over
[32:20] Speaker 2: and above a whole lot of people in this world
[32:23] Speaker 2: in terms of basketball play. But he was also I
[32:26] Speaker 2: think helped by the NBA because at the time, I mean,
[32:29] Speaker 2: they used to do surveys and they discovered that literally
[32:32] Speaker 2: like seventy five percent of the people watching the NBA
[32:37] Speaker 2: during the Michael Jordan era were watching the NBA to
[32:40] Speaker 2: watch Michael Jordan. So are you going to destroy Michael Jordan.
[32:44] Speaker 2: Are you gonna, you know, give a lot of defensives
[32:47] Speaker 2: to play really tight on Michael Jordan, or are you,
[32:50] Speaker 2: as the league. We see your money maker out there,
[32:52] Speaker 2: who's also abated with McDonald's and Chevrolet and all these
[32:55] Speaker 2: other major corporations, Nike and everybody else. Are you gonna
[32:59] Speaker 2: say to the official, Hey, you make sure Michael Jordan
[33:02] Speaker 2: gets this room to do what Michael Jordan does because
[33:04] Speaker 2: that's what people are tuning in the seat, and that's
[33:06] Speaker 2: what they want to watch. So you give him some
[33:08] Speaker 2: space and let him do his thing, and it leads
[33:11] Speaker 2: to the Bulls win in six championships, So be it.
[33:14] Speaker 2: That's all better for everybody else involved. And that's what
[33:17] Speaker 2: I think have.
[33:20] Speaker 1: Right now. There's been speculation and I've seen, you know,
[33:26] Speaker 1: I've seen videos, I've seen stuff that you've posted that
[33:32] Speaker 1: some of the balls in basketball it even looks like
[33:37] Speaker 1: they're magnetizing the base board in order to deflect some
[33:42] Speaker 1: of this. Is that something that you think is actually
[33:48] Speaker 1: going on?
[33:51] Speaker 2: Not exactly, To be honest, I think it's an interesting
[33:53] Speaker 2: theory and I don't think it's something that you be
[33:57] Speaker 2: totally ruled out of hand. And really it all started
[34:00] Speaker 2: for me. I actually literally, I'm not making this up.
[34:03] Speaker 2: The guy who is a former NBA ball boy back.
[34:07] Speaker 2: I can't remember how long ago now, but he literally
[34:10] Speaker 2: was an NBA ball boy and he was the one
[34:11] Speaker 2: who originally told me. He goes, hey, you know, there's
[34:13] Speaker 2: like the rims are magnetized and there's balls. There's magnets
[34:17] Speaker 2: in the ball. And I was like, what are you
[34:19] Speaker 2: talking about, and he goes, Yeah, they're magnetized. He goes
[34:22] Speaker 2: because when the ball goes through the hoop, it automatically
[34:25] Speaker 2: resets the shot clock. And I was like, oh, and
[34:28] Speaker 2: he goes, you know, they can turn those magnets on
[34:30] Speaker 2: and off, and so sometimes they can help pull the
[34:33] Speaker 2: ball in or deflect the ball away from the rim.
[34:35] Speaker 2: And I was like the crazy man. He's like, oh,
[34:38] Speaker 2: that's just what he told me. And I kind of
[34:41] Speaker 2: let it go. But as things have progressed and you
[34:44] Speaker 2: see more and more, like you know, YouTube videos of
[34:47] Speaker 2: you know, basketball shots and NFL kicks and that sort
[34:50] Speaker 2: of thing, even hockey pucks in the net, it made
[34:53] Speaker 2: me start wondering, well, is it possible it could such
[34:56] Speaker 2: technology exist? And if you do the research, the technology
[34:59] Speaker 2: does kind of exist. I mean maybe not to the
[35:03] Speaker 2: you know level that this guy was suggesting, but you know,
[35:06] Speaker 2: you watch some of this stuff and you figure, you know,
[35:08] Speaker 2: the goal posts or metal, the hockey net, the you know,
[35:12] Speaker 2: the posts or metal there, the rim is metal. And
[35:15] Speaker 2: then you put magnets inside the pock or the football
[35:18] Speaker 2: or basketball. They start thinking, well, maybe you could do
[35:21] Speaker 2: some stuff along those lines to you know, create points
[35:25] Speaker 2: or deflect points away from you know, the goal.
[35:28] Speaker 1: Who's to say, some of the stuff I've seen is
[35:31] Speaker 1: pretty compelling. I mean, it'd be going one direction and
[35:34] Speaker 1: all of a sudden the last minute, it'll just shoot
[35:37] Speaker 1: off like it was deflected in a way.
[35:40] Speaker 2: Uh it's you, Yeah, I agree. I mean, there has
[35:44] Speaker 2: been some videos that I've seen that really like say,
[35:46] Speaker 2: it makes me wonder. I mean, and again there's been technology.
[35:49] Speaker 2: There's actually been research done, especially in the footballs in
[35:52] Speaker 2: terms of you know, all these next generation staffs and
[35:55] Speaker 2: stuff on your screen and they can track the paths
[35:58] Speaker 2: of the football and say, you know, it flew it
[36:00] Speaker 2: was twenty three feet in the air and I was
[36:02] Speaker 2: traveling at sixty miles an hour and blah blah blah.
[36:05] Speaker 2: Well where do you think they get that from? There's
[36:07] Speaker 2: something inside the ball already. The question is is it
[36:10] Speaker 2: magnetized and could they actually manipulate it? That's the question.
[36:15] Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. Now, one sport that I actually used to
[36:20] Speaker 1: watch until I just couldn't take it anymore because I
[36:24] Speaker 1: just knew that it was fixed is boxing. You know,
[36:28] Speaker 1: it seems to me like that would be one of
[36:30] Speaker 1: the easiest sports to fix it, you know, boxing.
[36:34] Speaker 2: Oh far and away. I mean any individual sport, you know, boxing,
[36:38] Speaker 2: the UFC, even like tennis, when you just have to
[36:41] Speaker 2: get to one person, and obviously makes it a lot
[36:44] Speaker 2: easier than a team sport because even if you had
[36:46] Speaker 2: you know, say, you know, the picture on the baseball team,
[36:50] Speaker 2: the picture could give up you know, eight runs and
[36:52] Speaker 2: get yanked from the game, but that doesn't mean the
[36:53] Speaker 2: team can to come back and score nine and you know,
[36:56] Speaker 2: destroy your fix. But if you got the boxer you
[36:59] Speaker 2: tell him to go down in the third round, you know,
[37:03] Speaker 2: game over. He got it.
[37:06] Speaker 1: And we and you know, there's definitely evidence of mob
[37:11] Speaker 1: involvement with you know, telling a boxer to go down
[37:15] Speaker 1: or you know, having some kind of interference.
[37:19] Speaker 2: Would you say, oh, I mean it's proven beyond the doubts.
[37:24] Speaker 2: I mean, boxing's history is littered with fixed fights and
[37:28] Speaker 2: fights fixed by organized crime. I mean, you know, back
[37:31] Speaker 2: in the was the the nineteen teens. I mean, I
[37:33] Speaker 2: granted one hundred years ago, but you know, mobsters owned
[37:37] Speaker 2: this one guy who's a heavyweight known as Suprema Carnera,
[37:41] Speaker 2: and they literally fixed every fight that guy fought in
[37:45] Speaker 2: until they made him heavyweight champion. And then they got
[37:47] Speaker 2: against him and didn't fix the fight and watched them
[37:50] Speaker 2: moves and they collected the reward. I mean, that's how
[37:54] Speaker 2: genius really when you think about it. But they did that,
[37:57] Speaker 2: and then in the nineteen fifties and early nineteen sixties,
[38:00] Speaker 2: I mean boxing was totally controlled by organized crime. And
[38:03] Speaker 2: I mean totally controlled by organized crime. I mean they
[38:06] Speaker 2: would determine who would fight, where they would fight, when
[38:09] Speaker 2: they would fight, They sold it to CBS and NBC
[38:12] Speaker 2: is Friday night and Wednesday night fights, and then oftentimes
[38:15] Speaker 2: they would also determine who won and lost and then
[38:18] Speaker 2: bet and reap the rewards off of it. And it's
[38:20] Speaker 2: something I don't think that's ever gone out of boxing,
[38:23] Speaker 2: because not only are fights fixed for gambling purposes, but
[38:27] Speaker 2: also fixatingly for training purposes. Believe it or not, I
[38:30] Speaker 2: mean I talked to a guy and he's in my book,
[38:33] Speaker 2: a sky named Charles Farrell, who managed five world championship
[38:37] Speaker 2: fighters over the course of his career, and he said,
[38:39] Speaker 2: oh yeah, fights are fixed all the time, and we
[38:42] Speaker 2: do it because sometimes when you see a fighter with talent,
[38:45] Speaker 2: you want him to get work and have a fight,
[38:47] Speaker 2: but you don't necessarily have a real fight because you
[38:49] Speaker 2: got to get hurt in the kind of a meaningless fight.
[38:51] Speaker 2: So you go to another manager and basically a range
[38:54] Speaker 2: of fight where it's known that my fighter's going to
[38:57] Speaker 2: win this other fighters going to lose, will make it
[38:59] Speaker 2: go three round soil. There's a little action involved, but
[39:02] Speaker 2: it's a predetermined fight. It's a fixed fight, and that's
[39:05] Speaker 2: stuff he says, there's happening today right now. And that's
[39:07] Speaker 2: why you see when a guy gets to a championship
[39:10] Speaker 2: fight and he's you know, twenty two and ohero with
[39:12] Speaker 2: eighteen knockouts, Well likely those eighteen knockouts were fixed fights.
[39:18] Speaker 1: Now, do you think there's as much mob involvement today
[39:21] Speaker 1: or as it just become you know, the corruption just
[39:24] Speaker 1: became more mainstream, and it's just now.
[39:28] Speaker 2: What it is, you know, it's it's a good question.
[39:31] Speaker 2: It's hard to say. I mean, excuse me. Just a
[39:35] Speaker 2: few years ago when I was doing research on my
[39:37] Speaker 2: book larsny Games and talking to some former FBI agents.
[39:40] Speaker 2: I mean they would tell me that, you know, illegal
[39:43] Speaker 2: sports gambling was one of the if not the number
[39:46] Speaker 2: one money maker for organized crime in the United States,
[39:50] Speaker 2: and that was just like five years ago. And again
[39:53] Speaker 2: with it becoming more and more legalized, that's sure that
[39:56] Speaker 2: the mob's losing some control of the money, but not
[39:58] Speaker 2: all of the control of that money. But I mean
[40:01] Speaker 2: that means that organized crime is still very active in
[40:04] Speaker 2: sports and in gambling, which means that they're probably active in,
[40:08] Speaker 2: you know, fixing some things here and there when they
[40:10] Speaker 2: get the opportunity to do so.
[40:13] Speaker 1: Now, another sport that I do occasionally watch would be MMA,
[40:19] Speaker 1: but it turns out that may not be exactly legitimate either,
[40:24] Speaker 1: Is that right?
[40:26] Speaker 2: Well, I think it operates the same way as boxing,
[40:28] Speaker 2: to be honest. I mean, it's essentially the same thing.
[40:32] Speaker 2: It's just a different way of fighting, but it's still
[40:35] Speaker 2: one on one. You still have this whole thing where
[40:37] Speaker 2: you have to work your way up the rank to
[40:40] Speaker 2: get to the title fights. And I think it would
[40:43] Speaker 2: work the same way as with boxing. If you find
[40:45] Speaker 2: as and then a manager a fighter who you think
[40:48] Speaker 2: is truly counted over and above the normal people.
[40:51] Speaker 3: You see, then.
[40:52] Speaker 2: You're going to manipulate this guy's career in his benefit.
[40:55] Speaker 2: I mean, not necessarily against the UFC, but I mean
[40:57] Speaker 2: you're going to manipulate his career to get in that
[41:00] Speaker 2: title shot, because that's what you both need as a
[41:03] Speaker 2: manager and as a fighter. And so yeah, I'm sure
[41:05] Speaker 2: there's the ways of arranging fights to make sure that
[41:08] Speaker 2: this fighter does better and wins these certain matches to
[41:11] Speaker 2: build up his career to get him a title shot.
[41:13] Speaker 2: I mean, I think, honestly, if you look at somebody
[41:16] Speaker 2: like round a Rousey, I think, yeah, I think her
[41:22] Speaker 2: whole career was manipulated up until that fight. I forget
[41:27] Speaker 2: who the woman she lost to where she really just
[41:30] Speaker 2: got her head kicked in, But I think up until
[41:33] Speaker 2: that fight, I think it was manipulated because she was
[41:36] Speaker 2: such a money maker for the UFC, and I mean
[41:39] Speaker 2: it did benefit her, but it also benefit at the UFC.
[41:42] Speaker 2: It benefited them selling pay per view events. She was
[41:45] Speaker 2: getting noticed, she was bringing attraction to the sport. You know,
[41:49] Speaker 2: she was getting on late neck talk shows. I mean,
[41:51] Speaker 2: she was doing more than a lot of the other
[41:52] Speaker 2: even big name fighters could do, and so I think
[41:55] Speaker 2: it behooved them to make sure she won. And again,
[41:58] Speaker 2: especially fighting against other women and where the talent pool
[42:01] Speaker 2: isn't as large, I think then you had more control
[42:04] Speaker 2: too as well to make sure that she, you know, succeeded.
[42:06] Speaker 2: But she only really fought like what eight ten times maybe,
[42:10] Speaker 2: but it was enough to make a wave and help
[42:13] Speaker 2: the whole sport.
[42:16] Speaker 1: And in many aspects, these UFC fighters are treated very poorly,
[42:21] Speaker 1: and they you know, everything about them is technically owned.
[42:26] Speaker 1: You would say, is that right?
[42:30] Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if it still holds one hundred
[42:32] Speaker 2: percent true that way, But it was interesting when they
[42:35] Speaker 2: finally somehow got released that actual US and contract. It
[42:41] Speaker 2: was amazing how much control fighters would have to give
[42:45] Speaker 2: up when they signed with the UFC. And I mean
[42:49] Speaker 2: they lost actually the likes, the rights of their own
[42:52] Speaker 2: likeness and their own tattoos and that sort of thing
[42:54] Speaker 2: for promotional purposes. But I think the thing that I
[42:58] Speaker 2: found the most frightening was the fact where you know,
[43:00] Speaker 2: you may sign whatever a six fight contract with the UFC,
[43:05] Speaker 2: but if the UFC determined at any point in time
[43:08] Speaker 2: that basically worn't worthwhile, they determinate the contract, and yet
[43:12] Speaker 2: if you've won a championship belt, your contract was automatically
[43:17] Speaker 2: renewed without your say. So it just happened. So, I
[43:20] Speaker 2: mean the UFC in many ways, you know, it's kind
[43:23] Speaker 2: of a novelistic entity within mixed martial arts because if
[43:27] Speaker 2: you don't fight for the UFC, you don't have many
[43:30] Speaker 2: other options. And then within their contract, they basically said,
[43:34] Speaker 2: if you win and we like you, once you sign
[43:37] Speaker 2: our contract, we can keep you as long as we want.
[43:39] Speaker 2: And yet if we don't like you, we can jettison
[43:42] Speaker 2: you and kick you out of here at any time.
[43:44] Speaker 2: And so it just made it seem like their control
[43:46] Speaker 2: was absolute over the sport. And I think as a fighter,
[43:50] Speaker 2: you know, it left you with a few options and
[43:52] Speaker 2: a few alternatives to try to make a life for
[43:55] Speaker 2: yourself as an MMA fighter.
[43:58] Speaker 1: One sport that's extremely obvious to me, and I have
[44:02] Speaker 1: no idea how people can still bet on this, you know,
[44:06] Speaker 1: if you're just a regular betting person is horse racing.
[44:10] Speaker 1: It just seems obviously fixed to me.
[44:14] Speaker 2: Well, you know, the reason they fix horse races so
[44:17] Speaker 2: readily is because the horses don't talk. I mean, that's
[44:20] Speaker 2: always the joke is, you know, the horses can't tell
[44:23] Speaker 2: you what's going on, and that's really what you know
[44:26] Speaker 2: you're you're betting on. So that's the same with fixing
[44:29] Speaker 2: and NASCAR race. The car can't tell you what's going on.
[44:31] Speaker 2: But with horse racing, yeah, the horse doesn't talk, so
[44:35] Speaker 2: you can do all sorts of things to the horse,
[44:36] Speaker 2: you know, and they do. I mean, Unfortunately, if you
[44:39] Speaker 2: love animals, you hate horse racing because you know, of course,
[44:42] Speaker 2: when they have a Kentucky Derbert, they show you all
[44:44] Speaker 2: these horses on these big giant, you know, farms and
[44:48] Speaker 2: with all this, you know, room to run, and they
[44:50] Speaker 2: make it so serene and tranquil. But the reality is
[44:53] Speaker 2: horse raiting. I mean, they treat these horses terribly. I mean,
[44:55] Speaker 2: especially when they're fixing races. They they drug them, they
[44:58] Speaker 2: electro shock them, they do all sorts of horrible things
[45:01] Speaker 2: to try to win a bet.
[45:05] Speaker 1: Now do you see the same level of corruption in
[45:10] Speaker 1: overseas sports such as like soccer.
[45:15] Speaker 2: Oh well, that's the thing that I find amazing is
[45:17] Speaker 2: outside the United States, corruption is rampant and it's well known.
[45:22] Speaker 2: I mean, soccer is the most watched sport in the world.
[45:25] Speaker 2: It's the most popular sport in the world. The World
[45:28] Speaker 2: Cup is the biggest sporting event in the world. And
[45:31] Speaker 2: we know, I mean, without a doubt, we know that
[45:35] Speaker 2: World Cup soccer matches have been fixed and fixed for
[45:38] Speaker 2: various reasons. They've been fixed for gambling purposes, they've fixed
[45:41] Speaker 2: for political purposes. But we know about a doubt World
[45:45] Speaker 2: Cup soccer matches have been fixed. And if you can
[45:47] Speaker 2: fix a game in the biggest sporting events in the world,
[45:51] Speaker 2: then you know you can fix anything anywhere. If that
[45:54] Speaker 2: can happen, then everything's up for crabs. And that's the
[45:57] Speaker 2: thing that I find amazing that you know, we know
[46:00] Speaker 2: soccer matches have been fixed. You know tennis matches have
[46:02] Speaker 2: been fixed. You know cricket matches have been fixed. You
[46:04] Speaker 2: know rugby matches have been fixed. We know other matches,
[46:07] Speaker 2: badminton mitches, matches have been fixed, We know all these
[46:09] Speaker 2: other sports all over world have been fixed for gambling
[46:13] Speaker 2: purposes and other reasons. And yet in the United States
[46:16] Speaker 2: we act like it's impossible I could ever happen here.
[46:19] Speaker 2: And I mean I always say, what crime occurs all
[46:22] Speaker 2: over the world but does not occur in the United States. Well,
[46:25] Speaker 2: apparently that crime is fixing a game.
[46:29] Speaker 1: Would you say, is some of the biggest pieces of evidence,
[46:32] Speaker 1: say for uh soccer, for fixing a soccer game.
[46:38] Speaker 2: Well, I mean, like I said, they've been proven matches
[46:40] Speaker 2: fixed all over the place. I mean it's not just
[46:43] Speaker 2: proven in terms of, well we think that's happened. It's
[46:46] Speaker 2: proven to the point of people have been arrested and
[46:48] Speaker 2: people have been convicted and people are serving time in
[46:51] Speaker 2: jail for fixing these matches. And I mean, you know,
[46:55] Speaker 2: like one of the biggest corruptive of soccer leagues in
[46:58] Speaker 2: the world is Serie A Soccer that's the national league
[47:02] Speaker 2: in Italy, and I mean it's so corrupt. I mean
[47:05] Speaker 2: they literally have proven corruption from you know, low level
[47:08] Speaker 2: players and referees all the way up to team owners
[47:11] Speaker 2: in the sport in that country. And it was going
[47:14] Speaker 2: on for like ten or fifteen years, and yet they
[47:17] Speaker 2: broadcast Serier matches here in the United States over it
[47:20] Speaker 2: might be an ESPN or a Fox Sports channel, and
[47:23] Speaker 2: they never once mentioned, oh, by the way, here's the
[47:26] Speaker 2: sort of history of the league for the past fifteen years.
[47:30] Speaker 2: But again, it's stuff that's literally proven beyond a reasonable
[47:34] Speaker 2: doubt that it's occurred, and it's still occurring today all
[47:38] Speaker 2: over the world, and it's just amazing that again here
[47:41] Speaker 2: in the United States, and I think because of the
[47:44] Speaker 2: ESPNS and the Fox Sports is and the like, they
[47:47] Speaker 2: just don't mention it. So if they don't mention it,
[47:49] Speaker 2: nobody knows it happened.
[47:53] Speaker 1: What about the Olympics. Do we see events in the
[47:58] Speaker 1: Olympics being fixed on?
[48:01] Speaker 2: So sure? All you know, the same thing is wherever
[48:04] Speaker 2: there's money involved and wherever people want to win events,
[48:08] Speaker 2: it's fixed. I mean Little League, the Little League World's
[48:11] Speaker 2: theory has basically been fixed. I mean the fixed might
[48:14] Speaker 2: be the wrong word, you know, but it's been corrupted.
[48:17] Speaker 2: I mean, we had a fourteen year old pitcher for
[48:20] Speaker 2: New York a few years ago pitched for it is
[48:23] Speaker 2: supposed to be a twelve year old league. They had
[48:24] Speaker 2: a fourteen year old picture for him. They had the
[48:26] Speaker 2: team from Chicago in the Little League World Series that
[48:30] Speaker 2: was illegally compiled basically and picked from a wider area
[48:34] Speaker 2: than it should have been. And I mean it's other
[48:35] Speaker 2: fixing Little League baseball games to win. Of course you're
[48:39] Speaker 2: gonna hit into the Olympics, and the same thing is
[48:41] Speaker 2: going to happen. I mean we've seen it, you know,
[48:43] Speaker 2: in multiple sports, like say, it's happened in badminton, it's
[48:46] Speaker 2: happened in cycling, it's happened swimming, that's happened in boxing.
[48:49] Speaker 2: It happens all over place. And if really, if you
[48:51] Speaker 2: want to consider it, might consider it fixing or again manipulation, corruption,
[48:55] Speaker 2: whichever word you choose to use. I mean, just look
[48:58] Speaker 2: at the blood doping and the performance enhancing drugs. You know,
[49:02] Speaker 2: if Russia got into a huge, big ordeal and got
[49:06] Speaker 2: banned basically from the Olympics for their systematic use of
[49:10] Speaker 2: performance enhancing drugs. But the fact of the matter is
[49:13] Speaker 2: our athletes were beating the Russian athletes. So if they
[49:17] Speaker 2: behanded the Russians for using the performance enhancing drugs to
[49:21] Speaker 2: make them better, how is it that our athletes are
[49:24] Speaker 2: being sure you run faster, jump higher, et cetera, et cetera.
[49:30] Speaker 1: And you know, I wonder if these high level athletes,
[49:34] Speaker 1: especially the ones that are actually you know, doing the
[49:40] Speaker 1: corrupt things. I wonder if they actually have to sign
[49:44] Speaker 1: some sort of non disclosure agreement. I mean, it must
[49:48] Speaker 1: weigh on their conscious to know that they're you know,
[49:52] Speaker 1: either fixing or throwing this major event or at least
[49:57] Speaker 1: doing their part in this event to you know sway
[50:00] Speaker 1: at one way or the other.
[50:03] Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. And like I said, I
[50:05] Speaker 2: think part of it goes back to being you know,
[50:08] Speaker 2: sports almost being a corrupting influence on younger kids because
[50:12] Speaker 2: they're treated differently. But I mean, I think like a
[50:15] Speaker 2: counter argument to what's bring up is the whole Lance
[50:17] Speaker 2: Armstrong time. And I mean, here's a guy who I
[50:20] Speaker 2: don't know how many times he won the Tour de France,
[50:23] Speaker 2: but he was considered the world's best cyclist for ten years,
[50:27] Speaker 2: and the entire time he was running this illegal blood
[50:31] Speaker 2: doping and performance at ancient drug taking, you know, a
[50:34] Speaker 2: system within the American team, and anybody who talked against him,
[50:39] Speaker 2: he like sued and attacked, and the press attacked the
[50:42] Speaker 2: accuser as opposed to attacking Lance Armstrong. Who's the cheat
[50:47] Speaker 2: and when? And it took years for it finally to
[50:49] Speaker 2: come out in the press. And when it finally did,
[50:51] Speaker 2: when the truth finally came out, then Lance admited to oh, yeah,
[50:54] Speaker 2: you know what, that was cheating all that time. I mean,
[50:58] Speaker 2: I think, you know, if you can do it, and
[51:00] Speaker 2: get away with it. You know, the fame and glory,
[51:03] Speaker 2: and you know, if you won the gold medal or
[51:06] Speaker 2: you won the championship or whatever, I think that means
[51:08] Speaker 2: more than the way you did it. I think you
[51:12] Speaker 2: know that and justifies the means for a lot of
[51:15] Speaker 2: these people.
[51:16] Speaker 1: And I think in some ways athletes behavior could be
[51:21] Speaker 1: used against them. I'm sure that you know they're keeping
[51:25] Speaker 1: tabs on what these athletes are doing, and they could
[51:29] Speaker 1: possibly use evidence for something in the future, say they
[51:33] Speaker 1: have no use for the athlete anymore. Is that something
[51:35] Speaker 1: you've come across ever.
[51:37] Speaker 2: Well, I mean, nothing that I could ever prove, But
[51:39] Speaker 2: I mean I think you know, all of these leagues,
[51:42] Speaker 2: for example, have drug testing policy, which I think are
[51:44] Speaker 2: just pr gimmicks, but they do test these athletes, and
[51:48] Speaker 2: I think it'd be very easily to catch an athlete,
[51:51] Speaker 2: you know, who's tested positive for performance ants and drugs,
[51:54] Speaker 2: or even tested positive for cocaine or whatever street drug
[51:57] Speaker 2: there is. And you know, the league determines what's illegal.
[52:01] Speaker 2: The league's the one who runs the test, to the
[52:03] Speaker 2: league's the one who collects the samples, They run the samples,
[52:06] Speaker 2: they get the results. But the leagues under no, you know,
[52:09] Speaker 2: own us to make it public. So I think if
[52:11] Speaker 2: they got a positive result from an athlete, they can
[52:14] Speaker 2: approach the athlete quietly say hey, look, you know we
[52:17] Speaker 2: know you tested positive for this, that or the other thing.
[52:20] Speaker 2: What do you want to do? Do you want us
[52:22] Speaker 2: to make this public knowledge? Do you want to be
[52:24] Speaker 2: suspended or do maybe when we need to? Do you
[52:27] Speaker 2: want to fix a game?
[52:29] Speaker 3: What do you want to do?
[52:30] Speaker 2: What's best for you? And I think that's all it
[52:33] Speaker 2: would take. Is And that's the thing is. I mean
[52:35] Speaker 2: all these league have their own investigative units. They have
[52:39] Speaker 2: you know, MFL security that Majorleague based positive, the Department
[52:43] Speaker 2: of Investigations, and I mean we had a lot of stuff.
[52:45] Speaker 2: I think they're able to keep quiet and keep out
[52:47] Speaker 2: of the press. And then, like you say, I think
[52:50] Speaker 2: they can use it as leverage against an athlete if
[52:53] Speaker 2: they so choose, when they really need a game to
[52:56] Speaker 2: go a certain way, they can employ it and make
[52:58] Speaker 2: sure that if does as told.
[53:03] Speaker 1: Now, am I right in saying that they recently changed
[53:06] Speaker 1: the law that allows the states to decide if gambling
[53:10] Speaker 1: is legal or not.
[53:12] Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they did. It changed the law. Basically, they
[53:15] Speaker 2: repealed the law that was I don't know improperly passed,
[53:19] Speaker 2: but yeah, the Supreme Court overturned what was known as
[53:22] Speaker 2: the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act, which basically gave
[53:27] Speaker 2: Nevada a monopoly on legalized sports gambling, and once that
[53:32] Speaker 2: was repealed, it allowed every state that wanted to to
[53:35] Speaker 2: legalize sports gambling on their own.
[53:37] Speaker 1: Do you think this is going to impact the level
[53:41] Speaker 1: of corruption in UH sports?
[53:45] Speaker 2: It's not necessarily. I think what's going to impact more
[53:49] Speaker 2: than anything is how people watch and consume sports. And
[53:54] Speaker 2: I don't think, at least at first, it's not going
[53:56] Speaker 2: to be a good thing because I think the you know, again,
[54:00] Speaker 2: the ESPN, the Fox Sports of the world, they're gonna
[54:04] Speaker 2: see fans as gamblers in a way, and they're gonna
[54:09] Speaker 2: start carry during more and more to the gambling nature
[54:13] Speaker 2: of fandom and people watching because they're gambling on the sport,
[54:17] Speaker 2: and you're gonna see more of the influence of them
[54:20] Speaker 2: talking about the point spread and if this player's injured,
[54:23] Speaker 2: how does that hurts the points spread? I mean, it's
[54:26] Speaker 2: gonna all be It's gonna be a lot of talk
[54:28] Speaker 2: about betting and odds and the sort of thing that
[54:30] Speaker 2: the casual fan will be turned off by because I
[54:33] Speaker 2: think it's gonna become over oppressive and I think they're
[54:37] Speaker 2: gonna just do way too much of it. I could
[54:39] Speaker 2: be wrong, but I don't think so. I think it's
[54:42] Speaker 2: the pregame, the post game, and everything in between is
[54:45] Speaker 2: all gonna start turning into gambling talk. And because it's
[54:48] Speaker 2: the sort of thing that happened in Europe and elsewhere
[54:50] Speaker 2: where supports gambling is legal, and I think, you know,
[54:53] Speaker 2: the more people who are gambling, the more people who
[54:56] Speaker 2: are gonna be watching for gambling, and the more they're
[54:59] Speaker 2: gonna cater to.
[55:02] Speaker 1: Now, in your books, you cite very compelling evidence to
[55:07] Speaker 1: the corruption in sports. I'm interested in knowing if what
[55:12] Speaker 1: kind of reaction you got from say news outlets are
[55:15] Speaker 1: actually from these sports leagues themselves, if any.
[55:20] Speaker 2: Well, I've never really heard in the sports league. Oh well,
[55:24] Speaker 2: not really directly. But the biggest thing I think happened
[55:29] Speaker 2: was I really stood this book called Arseny Games and
[55:32] Speaker 2: Larseny Games faced off of all these FBI files that obtained.
[55:36] Speaker 2: I mean, I literally I'm not exactating either. I'm not
[55:38] Speaker 2: making this up. I literally wound up on an FBI
[55:41] Speaker 2: watched list because of all the files I requested.
[55:45] Speaker 1: I'm sure I'm only somewhere.
[55:48] Speaker 2: But hey, somebody actually had the list. It's called it
[55:50] Speaker 2: was like called the Vectim Filer lists, and it was
[55:53] Speaker 2: basically me and thirty other guys who had just requested
[55:58] Speaker 2: so many things sort of freedom of them information because
[56:00] Speaker 2: they put us on a special list, and I knew
[56:02] Speaker 2: two of the other guys on the list. But that's
[56:04] Speaker 2: the funny thing. There's like three of us. We actually
[56:06] Speaker 2: knew each other on the list. But regardless of this
[56:09] Speaker 2: book Larseny games, again based on all these FBI files.
[56:13] Speaker 2: I mean, there's nothing I made up, nothing that you know,
[56:16] Speaker 2: I pulled out of you know, thin air. It was
[56:18] Speaker 2: all based up what the file said. And the file
[56:20] Speaker 2: said that certain Hall of Fame players in the NFL
[56:24] Speaker 2: and in the NBA were betting on games they played.
[56:26] Speaker 2: It it may have been shaving points on the games
[56:28] Speaker 2: they played that And I mean, this was really, I
[56:30] Speaker 2: think pretty crazy, big stuff, especially in the sports world,
[56:34] Speaker 2: because I mean these were literally guys like Bill Chamberlain
[56:36] Speaker 2: and Bill Russell Len Dawson and guys who were Hall
[56:39] Speaker 2: of Famers who essentially should be kicked out of the
[56:42] Speaker 2: Hall of Fame for their gambling habits on the sport.
[56:45] Speaker 2: And when the book was released, I publisher got context
[56:49] Speaker 2: from like ESPN Sports Illustrated was supposed to run an
[56:53] Speaker 2: excerpt from the book in the magazine. I I had
[56:56] Speaker 2: talked with producers from sixteen minutes about what i'd I mean,
[57:00] Speaker 2: we were getting interest from people all over the place,
[57:04] Speaker 2: and nobody did anything with any of it. It all disappeared.
[57:09] Speaker 2: And I think it all goes back to the fact
[57:11] Speaker 2: that if you're funding professional sports and covering professional sports
[57:17] Speaker 2: that you fund, you're not going to allow a guy
[57:19] Speaker 2: that you need to come out there and say, hey,
[57:21] Speaker 2: there's some Hall of Fame dudes, you should probably be
[57:23] Speaker 2: kicked out of the Hall of Fame for the gambling problems.
[57:26] Speaker 2: I just don't think that's a message they wanted to send.
[57:29] Speaker 2: So they basically squashed the book in the media. Nobody
[57:33] Speaker 2: needed to review the book. Nobody said this book is
[57:35] Speaker 2: horribly written. Nobody said this book is great written. They
[57:39] Speaker 2: just it's just like they acted like it didn't exit
[57:41] Speaker 2: and because that nobody heard about it and it didn't
[57:43] Speaker 2: sell any copies, but still out there still could be had.
[57:47] Speaker 2: But they really know how to quiet things if they
[57:50] Speaker 2: want to keep it quiet.
[57:53] Speaker 1: Right. Well, Brian, that was fantastic information. Any possible new
[57:59] Speaker 1: book books in the future, No, I well, my.
[58:03] Speaker 2: Newest one, actually, the fixestill In, just came out in June.
[58:07] Speaker 2: It's only been out like three months, so as of
[58:10] Speaker 2: right now, that's all I got going. So hopefully people
[58:14] Speaker 2: will go to Amazon or even my website fix it
[58:17] Speaker 2: in dot net and pick up a copy.
[58:19] Speaker 1: Very good. Well, I want to thank you again for
[58:22] Speaker 1: taking the time to come on tonight. That was fantastic information.
[58:25] Speaker 1: We'll have to have you back on sometime.
[58:28] Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, think Churts.
[58:29] Speaker 1: I appreciate you having me up tonight. I want to
[58:31] Speaker 1: welcome Tony Toppy. He is a writer, media contributor, and
[58:35] Speaker 1: contacte who has become a targeted individual by secret covert
[58:39] Speaker 1: interests who monitored his interactions with UFOs and off world entities.
[58:45] Speaker 1: He has appeared on multiple TV and radio shows to
[58:48] Speaker 1: shed light on the shadow of the secret world of
[58:51] Speaker 1: the UFO phenomenon. Tony, welcome, How are you tonight?
[58:55] Speaker 3: Hey, we're okay, mate, We're okay. Battling the demons, you know,
[58:59] Speaker 3: saving my kind all in a day's work. You nowadays.
[59:06] Speaker 3: Yeah awesome. Yeah, when you've had forty years of dealing
[59:11] Speaker 3: with high strangeness, I wouldn't call it awesome. I'd call
[59:15] Speaker 3: it a roller coaster ride actually, But there you go.
[59:18] Speaker 3: That's the year. That's the situation, mate, That's how it is.
[59:21] Speaker 3: That's backshow. I have to deal with it, and mentally
[59:24] Speaker 3: it's very demanding. Anyway, nice to be on your radio
[59:26] Speaker 3: show fire Away for any questions you want and what
[59:30] Speaker 3: you want to ask me about what it's like to
[59:33] Speaker 3: be on the on the front line of dealing with
[59:35] Speaker 3: UFOs and all the circus that goes on for it
[59:39] Speaker 3: in real life. Mate. I just I hope you don't
[59:42] Speaker 3: mind me saying. There is a narrative that runs in
[59:44] Speaker 3: the US media at the moment, which is a controlled narrative.
[59:48] Speaker 3: It's a sciops narrative about UFOs. They're a threats of that.
[59:52] Speaker 3: The other I think what your listeners might hear from
[59:55] Speaker 3: me is what it's like to be a modern day
[59:57] Speaker 3: Billy Meyer, a modern day contact experience, and that narrative
[1:00:01] Speaker 3: is a skew. Frankly, it's not quite correct. We're not
[1:00:05] Speaker 3: being invaded. It's not as it appears to be. But
[1:00:09] Speaker 3: we'll talk about that as we go on. I'm sure.
[1:00:11] Speaker 1: Yes, your story is definitely fascinating, and I love to
[1:00:16] Speaker 1: have people like yourself that have had direct contact with
[1:00:19] Speaker 1: these entities to help us understand the phenomenon.
[1:00:24] Speaker 3: No, no, absolutely not. My life has been my life
[1:00:27] Speaker 3: has been dominated by it. But there again, Matie, I've
[1:00:29] Speaker 3: had one. I've had one hell of a life just
[1:00:32] Speaker 3: recently last year, for example. Just to give your listeners
[1:00:36] Speaker 3: a perspective, I'm currently now writing my book after my
[1:00:38] Speaker 3: mother's passed over. That's called Revelations of a Paranormal Intelligence Asset,
[1:00:44] Speaker 3: and I'm writing that at the moment due to the
[1:00:47] Speaker 3: things that have been going on around me and all
[1:00:49] Speaker 3: that kind of thing. But I think before moving to
[1:00:52] Speaker 3: Southport where I am now, if your listeners can picture
[1:00:55] Speaker 3: what I've been through, I had to look after my
[1:00:58] Speaker 3: mother for a read of nearly five to eight years,
[1:01:01] Speaker 3: no eight years. It was two of those years she
[1:01:05] Speaker 3: was bowel in continent which went and I had to
[1:01:07] Speaker 3: clean up after her and we couldn't get help, and
[1:01:10] Speaker 3: then I had to look after her all the way
[1:01:12] Speaker 3: through the dementia process until a dying day. We did
[1:01:15] Speaker 3: get help eventually, but it was very hard work. And
[1:01:18] Speaker 3: when I say this, it's because it makes a man
[1:01:20] Speaker 3: out of you very quickly. So this situation that I
[1:01:23] Speaker 3: find myself in manage you up very quickly, and you
[1:01:28] Speaker 3: become very hard and very strong. And so I thank
[1:01:31] Speaker 3: my darling mother for the strength that she's given me
[1:01:34] Speaker 3: to carry on. The aliens, the UFOs, whatever you want
[1:01:37] Speaker 3: to call them, have saved my bacon on three occasions.
[1:01:40] Speaker 3: It's been hair raising. But that's kind of like where
[1:01:43] Speaker 3: we're at at the moment the writing of the book.
[1:01:45] Speaker 3: We had a film company here. The other day, we've
[1:01:47] Speaker 3: got a US TV company actually interested in me. My
[1:01:51] Speaker 3: mother would be very proud. So that's how I've ended
[1:01:54] Speaker 3: up where I am.
[1:01:55] Speaker 1: Now, well, let's start at the beginning. Where did this
[1:01:59] Speaker 1: as hard for you? It was in the early nineties, right,
[1:02:05] Speaker 1: it will call.
[1:02:06] Speaker 3: It the early nineties. I mean, I mean, my first
[1:02:08] Speaker 3: actual psychic visions happened at two years of age. But
[1:02:13] Speaker 3: it just goes to show that the hair raising time
[1:02:15] Speaker 3: I've had, well, technically take it from ninety two, I
[1:02:17] Speaker 3: think where we had what we could describe as this
[1:02:21] Speaker 3: UFO that was like something out of Close Encounters flying
[1:02:25] Speaker 3: in over my house. For about ten seconds. It appeared
[1:02:28] Speaker 3: and was gone, and it was incredible. It was a
[1:02:31] Speaker 3: light show. It was unbelievable, but it was there. They're
[1:02:35] Speaker 3: going to put in another appearance. And then I moved
[1:02:38] Speaker 3: to I kind of like got a place at Stage
[1:02:40] Speaker 3: School and I moved to Stage School and then I
[1:02:45] Speaker 3: kind of like it was I moved back to Yorkshire again. Yeah,
[1:02:48] Speaker 3: that was right. Moved back and then I went back
[1:02:51] Speaker 3: to London again. And it's when I moved back to
[1:02:53] Speaker 3: London a second time that the strangest of activities began,
[1:02:58] Speaker 3: including UFO constantly following me. UFOs little dots are like
[1:03:03] Speaker 3: UFOs following me everywhere. All this kind of thing cut
[1:03:07] Speaker 3: a long story short for your listeners. I then moved
[1:03:10] Speaker 3: back to Selby in Yorkshire, and it's then it began
[1:03:14] Speaker 3: about ninety six, really where truly ninety seven On a
[1:03:18] Speaker 3: summer's evening, these two dots of light they came together,
[1:03:22] Speaker 3: they emerged as one. There was an orange flash that
[1:03:25] Speaker 3: woke my mother up, an orange flash in the sky.
[1:03:27] Speaker 3: Everybody thought it was lightning. And you heard this voice
[1:03:31] Speaker 3: in print across the garden saying hello to you. So
[1:03:34] Speaker 3: you hear this voice going hello and that's really when
[1:03:38] Speaker 3: it technically all began. And it really did begin. My god,
[1:03:42] Speaker 3: it began, and it keeps on going. And I've been
[1:03:46] Speaker 3: on a surveillance and I've had done march helicopters filmed me.
[1:03:50] Speaker 3: I've had some very strange people who we would describe
[1:03:53] Speaker 3: them as agents of the state following me. It's frankly
[1:03:59] Speaker 3: been in.
[1:04:00] Speaker 1: Well, let's start with the craft. What did the craft
[1:04:03] Speaker 1: actually look like that you saw.
[1:04:05] Speaker 3: Well, the craft the first craft that came in, and
[1:04:07] Speaker 3: these are known as the primary UFO incidents. What you've
[1:04:11] Speaker 3: got to remember is there is an international cover up
[1:04:13] Speaker 3: at the highest level. You've got to remember that the
[1:04:16] Speaker 3: government's your government especially, has an information civil war going
[1:04:19] Speaker 3: on whereby the Joint chiefs of Staff can pick up
[1:04:22] Speaker 3: the phone and go, can you tell me all about
[1:04:24] Speaker 3: UFOs please? My military needs to know. And this person
[1:04:28] Speaker 3: will turn around to him and go, sorry, so we
[1:04:29] Speaker 3: can't tell you. It's national security. So you've got this
[1:04:33] Speaker 3: loop going on of kind of like our key policymakers,
[1:04:36] Speaker 3: key intelligence advisors being kept out the loop of the
[1:04:39] Speaker 3: UFO situation, while at the same time you have a
[1:04:43] Speaker 3: narrative running through the media of UFOs are a threat,
[1:04:47] Speaker 3: UFOs are this, UFOs are that, and it's not technically true.
[1:04:51] Speaker 3: Somebody's actually somebody is bullshitting. Frankly, it's not like that
[1:04:55] Speaker 3: at all in real life. And you're being lied to.
[1:04:58] Speaker 3: And the point is this, there's an unwritten law that says,
[1:05:02] Speaker 3: for the various reasons actually that you cannot have a
[1:05:05] Speaker 3: liaison with extraterrestrials. It's not allowed. If you're if you're
[1:05:09] Speaker 3: the man in the street and you have liaison with
[1:05:12] Speaker 3: UFOs independent of this narrative, that's not allowed. But the
[1:05:17] Speaker 3: scenario is what happens is these advanced spiritual starvation people
[1:05:23] Speaker 3: step out of this narrative and do their own thing,
[1:05:26] Speaker 3: out of control of any form of control that's trying
[1:05:29] Speaker 3: to cover up the UFO situation, and you then have
[1:05:33] Speaker 3: an alien Cold war on your hands. And that is
[1:05:36] Speaker 3: what's actually going on. There's a bit of a Cold
[1:05:38] Speaker 3: war going on, the alien equivalent of Russia and America.
[1:05:41] Speaker 3: It's tricky, but that's roughly how it is. So nineteen
[1:05:45] Speaker 3: ninety nine, the first UFO came in. It illuminated a
[1:05:49] Speaker 3: TV antenna. So it comes in over the house, it
[1:05:53] Speaker 3: illuminates a TV antenna and flies off again. I had
[1:05:57] Speaker 3: dreams about this for quite quite a period of time
[1:06:00] Speaker 3: where I filmed it, and then there was other incidents
[1:06:02] Speaker 3: with UFOs. There was an incident where a triangle UFO
[1:06:05] Speaker 3: comes in over the house and then two balls of
[1:06:09] Speaker 3: light UFOs rapidly overtake it at speed, and we've got
[1:06:14] Speaker 3: the imagery analysis, we've got all the photos going to
[1:06:17] Speaker 3: go in the book.
[1:06:17] Speaker 1: Most of these craft, uh physical are are lightcraft?
[1:06:23] Speaker 3: No, No, they're they're physical. They they are not to
[1:06:26] Speaker 3: be confused with with oh, that's a TR three B.
[1:06:30] Speaker 3: They're not to be confused with something like that. These
[1:06:33] Speaker 3: things are amped up, they're lit, they're et. They're not
[1:06:37] Speaker 3: from round here, but they are from around there technically
[1:06:40] Speaker 3: because they're using basis from our oceans. And that's the
[1:06:42] Speaker 3: that's the kicker. They are using bases from our oceans
[1:06:45] Speaker 3: and this kind of thing. So you've got very advanced
[1:06:48] Speaker 3: craft coming in over my house for no apparent reason whatsoever,
[1:06:53] Speaker 3: or for reasons that I don't I don't technically understand.
[1:06:56] Speaker 3: That was followed by and you know that was in
[1:06:59] Speaker 3: the space over a period of three months, these UFOs
[1:07:01] Speaker 3: coming in, going out and the other displaying aerodynamic maneuvers
[1:07:08] Speaker 3: that no aircraft could do. Quite on purpose. They were
[1:07:11] Speaker 3: doing that, and I was filmed by an unmarked helicopter
[1:07:15] Speaker 3: coming back from my local town. It appeared from nowhere,
[1:07:18] Speaker 3: bristling with camera gear green, unmarked. I understand from James
[1:07:23] Speaker 3: Defense Weekly that is on issue to US Special Forces
[1:07:27] Speaker 3: the British to have this type of helicopter. And it
[1:07:32] Speaker 3: was like something out of a Jason Bourne movie because
[1:07:34] Speaker 3: it hovered across a road junction at the height of
[1:07:37] Speaker 3: a lamp post, and I will a street lamp. I
[1:07:40] Speaker 3: will never forget it. And so that's kind of like that.
[1:07:43] Speaker 3: In the period of three to four months that circus started.
[1:07:47] Speaker 3: So you've got three UFOs, A first un marked helicopter incident,
[1:07:52] Speaker 3: a second helicopter incident over my garden where a UFO
[1:07:56] Speaker 3: intentionally buzzes it. We've got the image analysis of that
[1:07:59] Speaker 3: it gets buzzed, so we can see quite clearly that
[1:08:02] Speaker 3: there is something going on. And I'm the last to
[1:08:07] Speaker 3: know what's going on, but there's something going on. And
[1:08:11] Speaker 3: we can certainly say that elements of the military know
[1:08:15] Speaker 3: what's going on, but there's elements of the military that
[1:08:18] Speaker 3: do not know what's going on, and the two are
[1:08:21] Speaker 3: in conflict with each other. And what you see with
[1:08:23] Speaker 3: this narrative in the media at the moment about UFOs
[1:08:26] Speaker 3: is controlled from one elements. You see, and you're told
[1:08:31] Speaker 3: that you're actually told that their hostile were being invaded,
[1:08:34] Speaker 3: blah blah. Actually, these star nations have their own judiciary,
[1:08:38] Speaker 3: they have their own governance and infrastructure like humanity. So
[1:08:42] Speaker 3: really it would be very difficult for an alien race
[1:08:45] Speaker 3: to invade Earth. There's too many watching, there's too many involved,
[1:08:49] Speaker 3: and it's deeply spiritual. UFO contact is a spiritual thing.
[1:08:54] Speaker 3: I must emphasize those beings in the UFOs as spiritual. Yeah,
[1:08:58] Speaker 3: but there is and the farious element to it, a
[1:09:01] Speaker 3: shameful element to it. That that's the bit where it's
[1:09:05] Speaker 3: all going wrong in terms of the UFO cover up.
[1:09:07] Speaker 3: I've probably talked for long enough there, But carry on, mate.
[1:09:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, no, when did when did you have your actual first.
[1:09:15] Speaker 3: Contact, like you actually okay, contact these UFOs coming in. Actually,
[1:09:22] Speaker 3: my first contact with them was actually before the primary
[1:09:25] Speaker 3: UFO incidence. So my first my first contact was in
[1:09:29] Speaker 3: about ninety seven. And we are taught therefore that in
[1:09:34] Speaker 3: this situation that we embraced them with love and light.
[1:09:37] Speaker 3: Oh it's tremendously spiritual. Oh, they're star beings. For me,
[1:09:42] Speaker 3: I merely had a bloody heart attack, wondering what the
[1:09:44] Speaker 3: hell I had seen. I explained this to listeners because
[1:09:48] Speaker 3: it's communication, it's life, its reality. This is what happens,
[1:09:52] Speaker 3: not you're not it's not all. What's the world I'm
[1:09:54] Speaker 3: looking for? It is spiritual, yes, but at the time
[1:09:58] Speaker 3: when I saw this, it wasn't spiritual. I just wondered
[1:10:00] Speaker 3: what the hell was going on? And what happened was
[1:10:03] Speaker 3: if you my backgrounds in childhood, oh, my five led.
[1:10:09] Speaker 3: For example, at age ten, I was walking down the
[1:10:14] Speaker 3: street with a pram with scrap metal on it to
[1:10:17] Speaker 3: sell it to a scrap merchant. Because my mum and
[1:10:20] Speaker 3: dad were skinned, they had no money whatsoever. And then
[1:10:25] Speaker 3: kind of we lived in a house that was it
[1:10:28] Speaker 3: had no heating, it had no bathroom, it had nothing
[1:10:32] Speaker 3: to it. It was a god awful place to be in.
[1:10:34] Speaker 3: And my parents were very poor. And I used to
[1:10:36] Speaker 3: get beaten up at school because I looked scruffy. Yeah,
[1:10:41] Speaker 3: and it was it was just god awful. My father
[1:10:44] Speaker 3: was quite an abusive man. He's another story. Altogether, and
[1:10:48] Speaker 3: then we decided to move to the housing estate on
[1:10:52] Speaker 3: the other side of town. The local authority move does
[1:10:55] Speaker 3: bear with me, I'm coming to what's going on the situation.
[1:10:59] Speaker 3: Then happened that I was asleep in this new house,
[1:11:02] Speaker 3: and all of a sudden I was catapulted to this
[1:11:06] Speaker 3: old Victorian type house that we were in, this old, poorly,
[1:11:11] Speaker 3: poorly conditioned house, and I'm studying my mother and father's bedroom,
[1:11:15] Speaker 3: and I'm thinking, how the hell am I stood here
[1:11:16] Speaker 3: when I'm asleep? What's this? This is a strange dream.
[1:11:19] Speaker 3: I don't get it. In front of me is somebody
[1:11:22] Speaker 3: tying back her hair, and I'm thinking, who's that. That's
[1:11:27] Speaker 3: not my mother? And asleep, I don't quite know what's
[1:11:29] Speaker 3: going on. And she turns round and she looks at me,
[1:11:33] Speaker 3: and influent English says, how do I look? And she
[1:11:37] Speaker 3: is amped up and she is lit, and she is
[1:11:40] Speaker 3: not human, and she's got slanted eyes, she's got like
[1:11:43] Speaker 3: a pointed face, beautiful copper colored hair, beautiful skin tone,
[1:11:50] Speaker 3: tremendous physique on her. She really looked after herself. Quite
[1:11:54] Speaker 3: the woman actually, even though she wasn't human, And I thought,
[1:11:57] Speaker 3: my god, you're not human. I'm not prepared for this.
[1:12:01] Speaker 3: I live in a world where you don't exist, or
[1:12:03] Speaker 3: she exists, all right, that they exist, all right, gone
[1:12:07] Speaker 3: as quick as she came in. So I'm wandering around
[1:12:09] Speaker 3: in the days trying to understand what the hell's going on,
[1:12:14] Speaker 3: and really, to be quite frank, I wandered rounding in
[1:12:16] Speaker 3: quite a shocked state after seeing her for the first time.
[1:12:20] Speaker 3: And this would dramatically escalate over the years until.
[1:12:23] Speaker 1: The only thing she said to you is how do
[1:12:25] Speaker 1: I look?
[1:12:26] Speaker 3: Yes, that was the only thing she said to me,
[1:12:28] Speaker 3: how do I look? I will never forget it. And
[1:12:30] Speaker 3: then years and years down the line she would appear again,
[1:12:33] Speaker 3: and years and years down the line, the Nordics would appear,
[1:12:36] Speaker 3: the blonde, blue eyed extraterrestrials, and the Saga would really
[1:12:41] Speaker 3: really amp up it. But at this stage of the
[1:12:43] Speaker 3: game in ninety seven, they were just showing their presence.
[1:12:47] Speaker 3: That's all they were doing. They were showing their presence
[1:12:50] Speaker 3: and looking at the book that I'm writing at the moment,
[1:12:52] Speaker 3: what you're actually looking at is a paranormal intelligence operation
[1:12:55] Speaker 3: that snowballed into something absolutely unbelievable. For now, they've just appeared,
[1:13:02] Speaker 3: and this is what's going on. There's this subtle kind
[1:13:04] Speaker 3: of appearance of them on and off, on and off,
[1:13:06] Speaker 3: and here in the UK, I got targeted. So I'm
[1:13:11] Speaker 3: a targeted individual and that began in nineteen ninety nine
[1:13:15] Speaker 3: as well, where you have this ultrastyle technology being hit
[1:13:20] Speaker 3: at you. You are woken from gunfire, burger alarms, sounds,
[1:13:28] Speaker 3: all kinds of noise effects projected at you. As we
[1:13:31] Speaker 3: well know, the technology for microwave effects pulse modulated microwaves
[1:13:36] Speaker 3: on the human body to oscillate sound effects in the
[1:13:39] Speaker 3: year area is patented, as we well know. So you
[1:13:43] Speaker 3: become a target, you're a targeted individual, and you have
[1:13:47] Speaker 3: a circus of individuals or human beings following you around,
[1:13:51] Speaker 3: stalking you in the name of national security. I think
[1:13:56] Speaker 3: if you are somebody who's involved in national security in
[1:13:59] Speaker 3: the US, America, in the UK or America, I think
[1:14:02] Speaker 3: you have to check on what side of the defense
[1:14:04] Speaker 3: of national security you're on. Do you really want individuals
[1:14:08] Speaker 3: being a welcome as technology running rampage, which is what
[1:14:12] Speaker 3: it is. And I feel effing strongly about that. So
[1:14:16] Speaker 3: I had that to put up with.
[1:14:18] Speaker 1: I hear that often with contact these and experiencers that
[1:14:23] Speaker 1: they are targeted in individuals by the shadow government, the
[1:14:28] Speaker 1: military industrial complex, whatever it is, that they become interested
[1:14:32] Speaker 1: in these individuals and they harass them, abduct them in
[1:14:37] Speaker 1: some cases, and like you said, perform MK ultra style
[1:14:42] Speaker 1: type experiments on these people.
[1:14:45] Speaker 3: Yes, they do. And there's an element of it that
[1:14:47] Speaker 3: doesn't know what it's doing. There's an element of it
[1:14:50] Speaker 3: that is out of its depth with what is going on.
[1:14:53] Speaker 3: So they uphold secrecy, the enforce of silence about the
[1:14:57] Speaker 3: UFO phenomenon. But yeah, are absolutely as to what it
[1:15:01] Speaker 3: truly is. And then there's a if you look up
[1:15:04] Speaker 3: the pecking order, there's then another element to it that
[1:15:06] Speaker 3: is absolutely shocking. There's elements of it that I can't
[1:15:09] Speaker 3: talk about for my own safety. There's just elements of
[1:15:12] Speaker 3: this that are shocking. I've been shown it, I'm aware
[1:15:17] Speaker 3: of it. I can't talk about it for my own
[1:15:19] Speaker 3: personal safety really. But well, we'll just say at one level,
[1:15:23] Speaker 3: with the UFO cover up, if we were to supply
[1:15:25] Speaker 3: or Cohams Raiser, and I've said this in the public
[1:15:27] Speaker 3: domain as well, that you have a scenario where, for example,
[1:15:31] Speaker 3: we take the US government a used car salesman in
[1:15:34] Speaker 3: the form of an alien, turns up on their doorstep
[1:15:37] Speaker 3: and says, would you like to buy are used UFO
[1:15:40] Speaker 3: one careful owner, low mileage, just we're just going to
[1:15:44] Speaker 3: do our own thing, look the other way, and you
[1:15:48] Speaker 3: can have this free of charge. And the US government
[1:15:51] Speaker 3: has paid for this ever since. But you see that's
[1:15:53] Speaker 3: one half. The other half doesn't know. The left does
[1:15:56] Speaker 3: not know what the right's doing, and this has caused
[1:15:58] Speaker 3: an absolute disaster, frankly, and so I am suspicious therefore,
[1:16:03] Speaker 3: with that going on in the background of the controlled
[1:16:06] Speaker 3: narrative that we see in the media at the moment,
[1:16:09] Speaker 3: where is that truly coming from? And it's a gender
[1:16:14] Speaker 3: in view of what I have been subjected to, which
[1:16:17] Speaker 3: has been hell, frankly.
[1:16:19] Speaker 1: Now, let's let's go back to after nineteen ninety seven,
[1:16:25] Speaker 1: when things started to pick up for you, you started
[1:16:28] Speaker 1: to get harassed. What happens next.
[1:16:31] Speaker 3: Well, it was really I suppose it's been a long
[1:16:35] Speaker 3: situation of a private war against individuals who deployed his technology.
[1:16:42] Speaker 3: There's that famous film Training Day where he just sums
[1:16:45] Speaker 3: it up beautifully. It's not what you know, it's what
[1:16:47] Speaker 3: you prove. So they prove that I'm a fantasist. They
[1:16:52] Speaker 3: prove I'm a tinfoil hat wherea. They prove I'm a loone,
[1:16:55] Speaker 3: they prove I'm a creative journals genius. They prove anything
[1:17:00] Speaker 3: so that the public cannot be told that this has
[1:17:02] Speaker 3: gone on on no account was the publicly told this,
[1:17:05] Speaker 3: and it has gone on, you see, so that that's
[1:17:07] Speaker 3: what they that's what they do. And then there was
[1:17:10] Speaker 3: numerous incidents that went on with these noise effects. At
[1:17:14] Speaker 3: one point in the proceedings, I felt quite suicidal actually
[1:17:17] Speaker 3: with it. I was being a woken night and day
[1:17:19] Speaker 3: by bloody lunatics with this, with this technology. And it
[1:17:25] Speaker 3: wasn't schizophrenia either. It was kind of like quite projected.
[1:17:29] Speaker 3: It was quite bad. I remember at one point in
[1:17:31] Speaker 3: the proceedings being followed by one of them in a
[1:17:34] Speaker 3: local pub, and that was not good. And I walked
[1:17:39] Speaker 3: past him and he mentioned something to me about my
[1:17:42] Speaker 3: targeting that only he would know, and only he would
[1:17:45] Speaker 3: know this, and I managed to I was having this
[1:17:49] Speaker 3: bizarre private war with these individuals, and I managed to
[1:17:52] Speaker 3: find an exact photofit of what he looked like. It was.
[1:17:56] Speaker 3: It was a famous actor that looks exactly like him
[1:18:00] Speaker 3: actor called the Leicester Carbona. It looks exactly like him
[1:18:03] Speaker 3: from the film Smoking Ases. So somebody did a photo
[1:18:07] Speaker 3: fit of that, you know, excellent and all that kind
[1:18:09] Speaker 3: of thing, and we put that up online just to
[1:18:13] Speaker 3: stop him dead in his tracks, because the last thing
[1:18:15] Speaker 3: they want is to be known. And that's what happened,
[1:18:17] Speaker 3: you see, That's how I actually stopped him. But this
[1:18:20] Speaker 3: private war dragged on with them for a number of
[1:18:22] Speaker 3: years and they're not very nice people. And this is
[1:18:26] Speaker 3: going on in democratic elected society. We are told what
[1:18:31] Speaker 3: we are told. We're told that we're being told the truth.
[1:18:34] Speaker 3: We're told that the government are there to protect us.
[1:18:36] Speaker 3: We're told that they're going to fight for freedom. The
[1:18:39] Speaker 3: current situation is that somebody left tyranny through the back
[1:18:43] Speaker 3: door while men give their lives on the beaches of
[1:18:46] Speaker 3: D Day. And this is the serious situation that they did,
[1:18:49] Speaker 3: and they let the Nazis invite Operation paper Clip, and
[1:18:52] Speaker 3: it's been an absolute disaster. To talk about the harassment
[1:18:56] Speaker 3: and mind control is something nowadays that I can kind
[1:19:00] Speaker 3: of condense because there's far more important things to talk
[1:19:04] Speaker 3: about them, talking about them and their circus. After what
[1:19:07] Speaker 3: I've been exposed to and I've met it my personal
[1:19:10] Speaker 3: mission in life to make sure that every time they
[1:19:13] Speaker 3: hear my name and I start talking about my experience,
[1:19:16] Speaker 3: is that they reach for the drink's cabinet. That they
[1:19:19] Speaker 3: are shocked by it because it's apparent that they they
[1:19:22] Speaker 3: were being watched every move, that every movie is being
[1:19:25] Speaker 3: watched by these people from the stars above. And these
[1:19:28] Speaker 3: people from the stars above. Wow, it is quite amazing really.
[1:19:34] Speaker 3: But also, you cannot wander around with your eyes closed.
[1:19:38] Speaker 3: It's not airy fairy. You cannot wander around with your
[1:19:41] Speaker 3: eyes closed. There are many invariables of them, and they
[1:19:45] Speaker 3: all have personalities, and they probably all have problems. And
[1:19:48] Speaker 3: that the joke being they look like us and we
[1:19:51] Speaker 3: look like them little green men from Mars is rare.
[1:19:56] Speaker 3: They look more human than alien, I have to say
[1:19:58] Speaker 3: to you, Yeah they do.
[1:20:00] Speaker 1: Now it Also, when you go back to your childhood,
[1:20:03] Speaker 1: there was some trauma and there was some abuse, even
[1:20:09] Speaker 1: psychic attacks from your own father. Isn't that great?
[1:20:13] Speaker 3: Yes, that's absolutely right. Yeah, well done for twigging know not. Yes,
[1:20:16] Speaker 3: you have done your research, haven't you. Yes, that's right,
[1:20:18] Speaker 3: well done. Yeah, there was my father. Let's talk about father.
[1:20:20] Speaker 3: My father was a healer. My father served in the
[1:20:24] Speaker 3: army in nineteen fifty in Vienna. He was part of
[1:20:28] Speaker 3: something called the West Yorkshire Battalion, which was like an
[1:20:30] Speaker 3: infantry battalion, similar as opposed to your National Guard or
[1:20:34] Speaker 3: whatever you call it in the US. He served in
[1:20:35] Speaker 3: the military in nineteen fifty and he told me that
[1:20:39] Speaker 3: he was approached by the KGB in Vienna. Well, the
[1:20:43] Speaker 3: KGB were running a spy ring in Vienna at the time,
[1:20:46] Speaker 3: and he was a scout master and he was kind
[1:20:49] Speaker 3: of like running a scout troop for all the scouts
[1:20:51] Speaker 3: and cubs of the officers. So it may have been
[1:20:53] Speaker 3: that they had a private that they wanted information of
[1:20:56] Speaker 3: that nature. But there again, my father was a powerful healer,
[1:21:00] Speaker 3: and this is the tragedy about him. My father was capable,
[1:21:03] Speaker 3: like a Jesus of healing people with his hands. I've
[1:21:07] Speaker 3: seen him heal somebody's new ralgia two fake. Yet this
[1:21:12] Speaker 3: woman came into the house screaming with new ralgia and
[1:21:16] Speaker 3: pleading for my father to help because I think he'd
[1:21:19] Speaker 3: helped her be forward something. And he laid his hands
[1:21:21] Speaker 3: on and cured her of it. There was another situation
[1:21:25] Speaker 3: where my auntie had a dog that was at death's
[1:21:28] Speaker 3: door and he brought that back from the brink. My
[1:21:30] Speaker 3: uncle Burley baffled an ambulance crew one day because Uncle
[1:21:33] Speaker 3: Bill was a goner with a heart attack, yet the
[1:21:36] Speaker 3: laying of hands brought him back. The ambulance crew were astounded.
[1:21:40] Speaker 3: But then, for example, with me, it was nothing but
[1:21:43] Speaker 3: abuse with him. So for example, if I wanted to
[1:21:46] Speaker 3: go out somewhere, he would and I was being naughty.
[1:21:50] Speaker 3: Instead of slapping me, he would actually give me headaches
[1:21:54] Speaker 3: and he'd lay me sparkle on the bed with a
[1:21:56] Speaker 3: migraine at ten years of age. The abuse that he
[1:21:59] Speaker 3: subjected too as well was vile, It was violational. It
[1:22:03] Speaker 3: was absolutely disgraceful what he did. And I have a
[1:22:06] Speaker 3: job on forgiving in over it, actually I really do.
[1:22:09] Speaker 3: He violated me. A nasty man, but that's the tragedy
[1:22:12] Speaker 3: of it. You see, he had this ability, but he
[1:22:15] Speaker 3: had this abusiveness about him. I actually believe that he
[1:22:19] Speaker 3: was possibly targeted. I really do believe that he may
[1:22:22] Speaker 3: have been targeted by something, because it really on reflection
[1:22:26] Speaker 3: when I look at him, he was a broken man.
[1:22:28] Speaker 3: From his childhood. He used to share a bed with
[1:22:30] Speaker 3: his drunken brothers at age ten. In the UK, he
[1:22:34] Speaker 3: was born in nineteen thirty nine, so when he was
[1:22:37] Speaker 3: growing up in nineteen forty five and forty six, his
[1:22:41] Speaker 3: brothers were coming in from the pub drunk, living in
[1:22:44] Speaker 3: one of these Victorian style houses and sharing a bed
[1:22:46] Speaker 3: with him. I think it's still looking back, I'm trying
[1:22:50] Speaker 3: to console the fact I'm making it. Maybe I'm making
[1:22:52] Speaker 3: excuses for him. I don't know, but I think it's
[1:22:54] Speaker 3: inexcusable what he did. But he was a swine. One
[1:22:58] Speaker 3: of the things he would do, For example, he one
[1:23:00] Speaker 3: beat me up for chatting up girls over the citizens
[1:23:02] Speaker 3: Band radio system. I came in from home one evening
[1:23:06] Speaker 3: and he got off that chair and he laced into
[1:23:09] Speaker 3: me physically because I was chatting up two ladies on
[1:23:13] Speaker 3: the CBE radio, two girls, trying to arrange a date
[1:23:16] Speaker 3: with them. This was the kind of man that I
[1:23:18] Speaker 3: was dealing with. And it's a tragedy, frankly, but I
[1:23:20] Speaker 3: think it gives listeners a very unique insight into my life,
[1:23:27] Speaker 3: into the fact that I've had a hell of a life.
[1:23:30] Speaker 3: I mean, when I write my autobiography, there will be
[1:23:32] Speaker 3: nobody on earth that has an autobiography like mine. Oh
[1:23:35] Speaker 3: my gracious, you know, so there you go.
[1:23:37] Speaker 1: You know, I think he may have been involved in
[1:23:41] Speaker 1: some of these black projects.
[1:23:44] Speaker 3: Some of you not my father, No, I think my
[1:23:46] Speaker 3: father was. My father was autistic. He was actually a blessing. Really,
[1:23:51] Speaker 3: It's part of the process of it. I don't know
[1:23:53] Speaker 3: why I say bless him because he violated me. But
[1:23:56] Speaker 3: he was actually what we would call it. I don't
[1:23:59] Speaker 3: know what you'd call it in US, but in the
[1:24:01] Speaker 3: UK he was a sewer man. He went down sewers
[1:24:05] Speaker 3: and for example, I ended up I had a high
[1:24:08] Speaker 3: level job. I mean I had a very responsible job.
[1:24:12] Speaker 3: It was quite mind glowing really. But what would bron
[1:24:16] Speaker 3: happen with my herder was he started becoming ill when
[1:24:18] Speaker 3: he got into his seventies. And at one point in
[1:24:21] Speaker 3: the proceeding, for example, he's got he's having a stroke
[1:24:25] Speaker 3: on the toilet and that you can hear the ambulance
[1:24:28] Speaker 3: coming and I'm trying to get him off the toilet
[1:24:30] Speaker 3: and he's hitting me in the face as I'm trying
[1:24:33] Speaker 3: to do this. It certainly shapes you all this, it
[1:24:38] Speaker 3: certainly shapes your character. It really makes you from boy
[1:24:42] Speaker 3: to man very quickly with all this going on. And
[1:24:44] Speaker 3: that's even before we've got the got the UFOs coming
[1:24:49] Speaker 3: in and all that happened with them. You see, unbelievable,
[1:24:51] Speaker 3: absolutely unbelievable.
[1:24:53] Speaker 2: It is.
[1:24:54] Speaker 1: And you know, going back to some of your contact experiences,
[1:25:00] Speaker 1: when did you start actually getting messages and actually open
[1:25:07] Speaker 1: communication with them?
[1:25:09] Speaker 3: They'd been going on and off. I mean I've been
[1:25:12] Speaker 3: I've got journals from two thousand and one to two
[1:25:15] Speaker 3: thousand and five, and communication is going on there. And
[1:25:21] Speaker 3: what is interesting about these journals. I won't go into
[1:25:24] Speaker 3: too much detail about them, but what is interesting about
[1:25:27] Speaker 3: these journals is I rarely talked about them because I
[1:25:29] Speaker 3: wondered what the hell to do with them. It's when
[1:25:30] Speaker 3: you go back and read into them that you discover
[1:25:33] Speaker 3: that they were actually communicating with me. And I had
[1:25:36] Speaker 3: no idea I'm wandering around in the complete days, But
[1:25:39] Speaker 3: from my journals, I can actually tell that something very
[1:25:42] Speaker 3: big was going on behind the scenes and I wasn't
[1:25:45] Speaker 3: noticing but speeding onwards. The first actual contact began when
[1:25:50] Speaker 3: they stepped forward and said hello, it's us was in
[1:25:54] Speaker 3: twenty fourteen, and that was the first time that they
[1:25:58] Speaker 3: literally appeared and said, yeah, or you were right. We
[1:26:01] Speaker 3: are who we are. We're not from around here, Hello Tony.
[1:26:06] Speaker 3: And it began with at the height of the Ukraine crisis,
[1:26:12] Speaker 3: and it began with me doing something for a broadcast
[1:26:15] Speaker 3: dur in the UK called Channel four. That fateful morning,
[1:26:19] Speaker 3: we were going to film outside a place called the
[1:26:21] Speaker 3: Royal Institute of International Affairs. Some say that they're involved
[1:26:26] Speaker 3: with knowing the et phenomena. I have no idea and
[1:26:29] Speaker 3: I make no claims. It just happened to be that
[1:26:31] Speaker 3: that's where we were filming, but it did seem od
[1:26:34] Speaker 3: And I remember very clearly, very clearly, having this vision
[1:26:38] Speaker 3: in my sleep of this blonde, blue eyed Nordic et
[1:26:44] Speaker 3: who appeared in front of me, and he showed me
[1:26:46] Speaker 3: this spectacular vision, and my god, it was. It was unbelievable.
[1:26:50] Speaker 3: Two clocks. One said what to midnight, the other said
[1:26:53] Speaker 3: five to midnight? Well, actually no, one said twenty three
[1:26:58] Speaker 3: forty five, the other said twenty five. We then had
[1:27:03] Speaker 3: the two triangle craft hovering and this spectacular vision, and
[1:27:07] Speaker 3: an artist's friend has drawn in brilliantly and putting it
[1:27:10] Speaker 3: in the book, The spectacular vision of this blonde, blue
[1:27:12] Speaker 3: eyed man who was truly not human, speaking to somebody
[1:27:17] Speaker 3: as if the volume was turned off. So he's talking
[1:27:20] Speaker 3: like this as if I can't hear it, but he's
[1:27:25] Speaker 3: directing it at someone, and he would be because you're
[1:27:28] Speaker 3: dealing with I'm just I'm not called the paranormal Intelligence
[1:27:31] Speaker 3: Asset for nothing. It was part of something highly complex
[1:27:34] Speaker 3: and highly technical that was going on. This is displayed
[1:27:37] Speaker 3: in the journals. It's present and I hadn't noticed, but
[1:27:39] Speaker 3: it's there. So basically, he was warning some agency on Earth.
[1:27:44] Speaker 3: And I have reason to suspect that there is some
[1:27:46] Speaker 3: agency on Earth that is in communication with them, and
[1:27:49] Speaker 3: it's highly secret, and I believe that he was warning
[1:27:52] Speaker 3: governments that you see, there's this interesting thing. There's one
[1:27:56] Speaker 3: prime UFO researcher out there, Richard somebody or other, but
[1:28:00] Speaker 3: he talks about the hippie stuff. He talks about it
[1:28:04] Speaker 3: being a new age platitude the ets. Hey, dudes, they're
[1:28:07] Speaker 3: warning us about nuclear war. Oh well, they've always done that.
[1:28:11] Speaker 3: It's a new age thing that happened in the nineteen seventies.
[1:28:14] Speaker 3: It's you know, yeah, peace man, And actually it's it's real.
[1:28:19] Speaker 3: They really really are warning us about a nuclear exchange
[1:28:22] Speaker 3: between Russia, China, America. They're warning continually about the damage
[1:28:28] Speaker 3: that will cause. They're warning the American and UK governments
[1:28:31] Speaker 3: most definitely this warning and Russia continuous coming in all
[1:28:35] Speaker 3: the time into human affairs, warning, warning, warning of couse,
[1:28:39] Speaker 3: they know of the damage that it can that it
[1:28:42] Speaker 3: can actually do to us. In about ninety seven, that
[1:28:46] Speaker 3: woman with a hair tied back is actually connected to
[1:28:51] Speaker 3: a warning. And I received my very first warning technically
[1:28:55] Speaker 3: in about ninety seven where I'm baffled. It's in my journals.
[1:28:59] Speaker 3: I'm having these psycho visions, very vivid one in particular
[1:29:03] Speaker 3: of a submarine and their type of UFOs circling it
[1:29:07] Speaker 3: and this kind of scent and the submarine that they
[1:29:10] Speaker 3: were being trapped by it. It was quite a vision
[1:29:13] Speaker 3: to have. But you see the visions and the system
[1:29:17] Speaker 3: and the operation that is going on is not governed
[1:29:20] Speaker 3: by the rules of time. So for me, that's nineteen
[1:29:23] Speaker 3: ninety seven, for them, it could be any point on
[1:29:26] Speaker 3: the timeframe of humanity's history when they're coming in, doesn't matter,
[1:29:30] Speaker 3: And that's what was happening. So there's early visions of
[1:29:33] Speaker 3: this kind of nuclear prevention theme going on. And then
[1:29:36] Speaker 3: in twenty fourteen. As I say, they just appeared and
[1:29:39] Speaker 3: they started coming in and it was absolutely unbelievable. And
[1:29:43] Speaker 3: that's when they really really started letting me know that
[1:29:46] Speaker 3: they were Nordics. They were blonde, blue eyed Nordics from
[1:29:50] Speaker 3: the Andromeda Galaxy system, and they were using bases on Earth.
[1:29:55] Speaker 3: And they are using bases on Earth, and there's an
[1:29:57] Speaker 3: indication that the Himalayas being one of them, an area
[1:30:00] Speaker 3: in the South Pacific being another. They use quite routinely
[1:30:04] Speaker 3: our bases. They're like me and you, and you get
[1:30:07] Speaker 3: to a level of liaison where it's quite easy to
[1:30:10] Speaker 3: speak to them, but you're not allowed to do that because, Hey,
[1:30:13] Speaker 3: we've got this narrative running that, hey, UFOs are invading
[1:30:16] Speaker 3: us and UFOs as that are a threat and if
[1:30:19] Speaker 3: the government, if governments stopped a minute and just check themselves,
[1:30:23] Speaker 3: it could be very beneficial of them to know what
[1:30:26] Speaker 3: they're about and what their technology would offer us and
[1:30:28] Speaker 3: all that kind of thing. But there you go. In
[1:30:31] Speaker 3: my own way, I'm trying to prevent the Third World
[1:30:33] Speaker 3: War in my own way with what is going on
[1:30:35] Speaker 3: around me.
[1:30:37] Speaker 1: Now, you said you were contacted by Nordics. Were there
[1:30:40] Speaker 1: any other races that you had contact.
[1:30:43] Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, there's actually free groups that I
[1:30:46] Speaker 3: primarily that I'm primarily dealing with. The thing is, is
[1:30:50] Speaker 3: that what's the situation now? It's not what you know,
[1:30:52] Speaker 3: it's what we can prove. So we prove that I'm
[1:30:55] Speaker 3: a fantasist, we prove that we've met this up. The
[1:30:58] Speaker 3: problem I've got with this is that I do not
[1:31:00] Speaker 3: have the intellectual capacity nor brain to met it up.
[1:31:04] Speaker 3: I don't. I can't make it up. You couldn't make
[1:31:06] Speaker 3: it up. It's too complex, it's too involved. The narrative,
[1:31:10] Speaker 3: the journals. The narrative doesn't change. And a lot of
[1:31:13] Speaker 3: my supporters will say to me, yes, Tony, we believe
[1:31:16] Speaker 3: you because you have not changed your narrative in nearly
[1:31:19] Speaker 3: twenty years. It's consistent, constantly, it doesn't change. I was
[1:31:24] Speaker 3: on a radio show last night with a hardened cynic
[1:31:28] Speaker 3: who respected me because I was constant, I was concise,
[1:31:33] Speaker 3: I didn't backtrack on anything, and I just told it
[1:31:35] Speaker 3: like it is. There were some elements that he maybe
[1:31:37] Speaker 3: didn't believe about, but he admired me for being concise
[1:31:40] Speaker 3: and my narrative being consistent, which is what it is.
[1:31:43] Speaker 3: And has not altered you know. So yeah. So for example,
[1:31:48] Speaker 3: to give another example of contact with them, I lost
[1:31:52] Speaker 3: my mother in tragic circumstances in twenty eighteen. She died
[1:31:58] Speaker 3: of dementia in that hospital. I am convinced that she
[1:32:01] Speaker 3: was targeted in some way, although I will never be
[1:32:04] Speaker 3: able to prove it. And that's the shameful, shocking bit
[1:32:07] Speaker 3: of it all. There was an incident that happened with
[1:32:10] Speaker 3: one of the ets, the woman I'm talking about, who
[1:32:12] Speaker 3: was tying her hair back, who appeared again expressing moral
[1:32:16] Speaker 3: outrage at all I had been through. I cannot begin
[1:32:20] Speaker 3: to describe it to you, but female ET expressing moral
[1:32:24] Speaker 3: outrage is a site to see. But she was not happy. Now,
[1:32:28] Speaker 3: she's a maritime being, she comes from the oceans, but
[1:32:31] Speaker 3: she don't. She was telling me that she didn't just
[1:32:33] Speaker 3: come from the oceans. She came from the oceans from
[1:32:36] Speaker 3: another universe and used our oceans as basis. Oh, believe
[1:32:40] Speaker 3: me or believe me not. I really don't even care anymore.
[1:32:43] Speaker 3: I've been through hell and back with all this, you
[1:32:46] Speaker 3: know I have. The thing was, though, was this was
[1:32:49] Speaker 3: the situation I lost my mother. I then had to
[1:32:54] Speaker 3: move house and I had an umbilical hernia where my
[1:32:57] Speaker 3: belly button popped out, and I had a beard bar
[1:33:00] Speaker 3: tummy and I was in trouble with it, and according
[1:33:02] Speaker 3: to the surgeon, had it persisted. And I've got gangreing
[1:33:05] Speaker 3: with it because I'd let it go and go and go.
[1:33:07] Speaker 3: I was so busy trying to care for my mother.
[1:33:10] Speaker 3: It wasn't good. So all in the space of one year,
[1:33:13] Speaker 3: I lost my mother, I had to move, and then
[1:33:15] Speaker 3: I had to have major hernia surgery and it was
[1:33:20] Speaker 3: absolutely unbelievable. And I remember that these beings were present
[1:33:25] Speaker 3: when I moved into this new flat, in communication with
[1:33:28] Speaker 3: me constantly. They were kind of like telling me I
[1:33:31] Speaker 3: was going to be okay. They would come again in
[1:33:33] Speaker 3: November twenty eighteen to check on me after my operation,
[1:33:36] Speaker 3: and they did, which was absolutely unbelievable. And li Li
[1:33:41] Speaker 3: Liason has been quite quite shall we say, I wouldn't
[1:33:46] Speaker 3: call it an in depth liaison, but I would call
[1:33:48] Speaker 3: it a liaison. The liaison at a level where they
[1:33:51] Speaker 3: could pop round for a cup of coffee quite easily,
[1:33:53] Speaker 3: kind of liaison. I'm routinely aware that they're there. I'm
[1:33:56] Speaker 3: routinely aware that they're using bases in the Himalayas. I'm
[1:34:00] Speaker 3: routinely aware that they're coming from oceans. They're talking, they're there,
[1:34:04] Speaker 3: they're real, They're just like me and you, And that's
[1:34:06] Speaker 3: what's fascinating. And I'm sure there are certain individuals out
[1:34:09] Speaker 3: there who are also having liaison with them, probably keep
[1:34:12] Speaker 3: it quiet, and because they communicate via dreamscape and via like,
[1:34:17] Speaker 3: let let us say, non locality, there is every possibility
[1:34:21] Speaker 3: that the world leader could have communication with them and
[1:34:24] Speaker 3: keep it quiet as well, every possibility of it.
[1:34:27] Speaker 1: You mentioned Nordic's maritime beings and what was the other.
[1:34:31] Speaker 3: Yes's okay, arteris Yeah, so I didn't. Yeah, So what
[1:34:35] Speaker 3: we've got going on is we had the hernia surgery. Yeah,
[1:34:39] Speaker 3: and I remember going going to the hospital. I'd lost
[1:34:42] Speaker 3: my mother. I was collapsing with exhaustion. I was traumatized.
[1:34:47] Speaker 3: I don't know how the hell I survived the ordeal
[1:34:49] Speaker 3: because my mother dying on me like she did was
[1:34:52] Speaker 3: bloody unbelievable. Frankly, I mean I looked after her till
[1:34:56] Speaker 3: a dying day. It was hell ah yeah, um, sorry,
[1:35:03] Speaker 3: I'm losing my emotional right. So then I moved to here,
[1:35:06] Speaker 3: to Southport, and then I had to go back to
[1:35:08] Speaker 3: Yorkshire for surgery, and they indicated to me that these
[1:35:12] Speaker 3: naudics that they would come again in November to check
[1:35:15] Speaker 3: on me, and they didn't let me down. And I
[1:35:17] Speaker 3: remember having the surgery, I remember being transferred into another ward,
[1:35:22] Speaker 3: and I remember being constantly sick after the operation, I
[1:35:25] Speaker 3: could not stop being sick. By an odd coincidence, a
[1:35:28] Speaker 3: surgeon walked by and actually by who was doing the rounds,
[1:35:31] Speaker 3: and assisted me and we got the sort of fell asleep.
[1:35:34] Speaker 3: The next minute. I know, there was this tremendous vision
[1:35:37] Speaker 3: in my head. I mean, I was under stress, I
[1:35:40] Speaker 3: was being targeted. I didn't think I'd get out the
[1:35:43] Speaker 3: hospital alive. There was this tremendous vision in my head
[1:35:47] Speaker 3: of a galaxy just suddenly in my head. It was.
[1:35:49] Speaker 3: It was spectacular, and the vision of this woman appearing
[1:35:53] Speaker 3: in front of me was blonde and blue eyed, who
[1:35:55] Speaker 3: had not seen before. Absolutely gorgeous she was, but she
[1:35:59] Speaker 3: had a military rebearing about her. It was like, oh God,
[1:36:04] Speaker 3: it was like something you'd see on CNN when one
[1:36:06] Speaker 3: of these military guys waltzing for a briefing, you know,
[1:36:08] Speaker 3: kind of huge. He was military but not human. And
[1:36:12] Speaker 3: she told me that her name was Iza, and she
[1:36:15] Speaker 3: told me that the the Nordics have a military command
[1:36:18] Speaker 3: similar to the US. They have a military command, they
[1:36:22] Speaker 3: have a judiciary, and they have a police into the
[1:36:24] Speaker 3: law and order system they have to have because they mirror.
[1:36:28] Speaker 3: There's a grand designer out there. It's very it was
[1:36:31] Speaker 3: designed all this very cleverly, and so Nordics mirror the
[1:36:35] Speaker 3: human civilization, but they're advanced by about seven hundred years,
[1:36:40] Speaker 3: I would suggest. And she indicated that a name was Ia,
[1:36:44] Speaker 3: and she had a beautiful surname that just flowed off
[1:36:47] Speaker 3: the tongue that was very Hebrew and I'm sure I
[1:36:50] Speaker 3: can't remember. I'm sure it was something like Guardaminian or
[1:36:52] Speaker 3: guard of something. The standing joke being that I was
[1:36:55] Speaker 3: one of the first people to know her full name
[1:36:57] Speaker 3: from another galaxy. They found it hilarious, and she was
[1:37:01] Speaker 3: telling me that I would be okay. She was telling
[1:37:03] Speaker 3: me that they were doing a security welfare check on me,
[1:37:06] Speaker 3: as it were, and they give some further information that
[1:37:10] Speaker 3: I couldn't I can't talk about, unfortunately, but they did
[1:37:13] Speaker 3: add that something had gone on with me and her
[1:37:15] Speaker 3: that I'm yet to learn about further. And then with
[1:37:19] Speaker 3: that they were gone, and I've not seen her Iza.
[1:37:23] Speaker 3: I've not seen her for a while now, so I
[1:37:27] Speaker 3: don't but I think they'll put in another appearance and
[1:37:29] Speaker 3: show me the way. You know, this is difficult to
[1:37:32] Speaker 3: deal with, and you have to add the caveat to
[1:37:35] Speaker 3: it of are the military larking around with my head
[1:37:39] Speaker 3: and doing artificial reality experiments on me? I always have
[1:37:42] Speaker 3: that in the back of my mind because you can't
[1:37:44] Speaker 3: make it up, and I'm thinking, is this real? Is
[1:37:49] Speaker 3: this really going on? I can't even believe it myself,
[1:37:51] Speaker 3: But oh, it's going on all right, It's real, all right,
[1:37:55] Speaker 3: And they've put in an appearance now that it to
[1:37:59] Speaker 3: contact saga continues, and I know that I'm going to
[1:38:03] Speaker 3: film them again. They've indicated that they're going to turn
[1:38:05] Speaker 3: up again to be filmed. They're not invading us. They
[1:38:09] Speaker 3: don't want our air General's panicking. They're not invading, and
[1:38:14] Speaker 3: they're not invading. They're not They're monitoring things very closely,
[1:38:17] Speaker 3: including environmental matters. It would appear, so it's as if
[1:38:20] Speaker 3: they're here as allies rather than enemies. But they do
[1:38:24] Speaker 3: oppose something that is extraterrestrial that you would class as
[1:38:28] Speaker 3: the equivalent of Russia and their America. And there is
[1:38:31] Speaker 3: a Cold war going on, and I can go into
[1:38:34] Speaker 3: that for you in a bit of detail, some principles
[1:38:36] Speaker 3: that go on on a SkyWatch to help people with that,
[1:38:38] Speaker 3: if you get me.
[1:38:39] Speaker 1: That's actually what I was going to ask you about.
[1:38:41] Speaker 1: I've heard you say that before. And what do you
[1:38:44] Speaker 1: mean by that? And who is involved with this? What
[1:38:48] Speaker 1: races are involved?
[1:38:50] Speaker 3: So? Right, so you're talking right whats So just to
[1:38:55] Speaker 3: answer you what when you say what do I mean
[1:38:58] Speaker 3: by that? I'm sorry to ask you what do you mean?
[1:39:00] Speaker 3: What section am I not describing? What do I mean?
[1:39:03] Speaker 3: Just clarify for me.
[1:39:04] Speaker 1: Well, you said that there's a cold war, which implies
[1:39:08] Speaker 1: that you know, there are two races opposing each other.
[1:39:12] Speaker 1: What is this cold war about? Does it involve us?
[1:39:15] Speaker 1: And you know, just explain a little bit more.
[1:39:18] Speaker 3: Care about it? Right? Okay? It raises its activities whereby,
[1:39:22] Speaker 3: as I described earlier, somebody turns up with a used car,
[1:39:26] Speaker 3: a used UFO and says, you can have this excellent
[1:39:29] Speaker 3: piece of technology for free. We are going to move
[1:39:32] Speaker 3: into the house across the road. But don't watch what
[1:39:36] Speaker 3: we're doing. We're aliens and we're going to move into
[1:39:38] Speaker 3: that house across there. You have a UFO toy and
[1:39:41] Speaker 3: don't watch what we're doing. And I think that sums
[1:39:43] Speaker 3: it up in very simplistic way, but it appears it's
[1:39:47] Speaker 3: a query. What it is, it's the legality of what
[1:39:49] Speaker 3: other extraterrestrial groups do as opposed to you know, it's
[1:39:54] Speaker 3: a judiciary thing. So what you've got is, for example,
[1:39:57] Speaker 3: you can't go around as an et with advanced technology
[1:40:00] Speaker 3: you abusing the human race without some sort of recoil
[1:40:04] Speaker 3: coming back at you. These Star nations have judiciary. These
[1:40:08] Speaker 3: Star nations are quite developed, and they have legal due
[1:40:11] Speaker 3: process and they have laws. You cannot go around doing
[1:40:14] Speaker 3: this to humanity without it not being noted and without
[1:40:19] Speaker 3: without some color feeling going on and basic principle. Then
[1:40:22] Speaker 3: you've got an extraterrestrial group that's having its collar felt
[1:40:25] Speaker 3: and it's not like it's not it's not like they
[1:40:31] Speaker 3: are breaking laws and they should not be doing what
[1:40:34] Speaker 3: they're doing. And that's really I think as far as
[1:40:36] Speaker 3: that can go with it, idental.
[1:40:38] Speaker 1: Which group is the one that is doing this, that
[1:40:40] Speaker 1: is breaking the law?
[1:40:42] Speaker 3: I would describe them, You would popularly describe them as grays.
[1:40:46] Speaker 3: I don't quite know their full identity, but for example,
[1:40:51] Speaker 3: I've seen things. I've seen things, really seen things that
[1:40:55] Speaker 3: will be enough to put a man in a psychiatric y.
[1:40:58] Speaker 3: But I've really seen some stuff with them. One of
[1:41:00] Speaker 3: the most things that shook me at the most was
[1:41:04] Speaker 3: in the process of the operation that was going on
[1:41:06] Speaker 3: and ets extraterrestrials Russia, America. But the ET version of
[1:41:10] Speaker 3: it is violence among them. The threat of violence among
[1:41:14] Speaker 3: extraterrestrials towards each other is quite shocking to see when
[1:41:19] Speaker 3: you've got one extraterrestrial group threatening violence on another and
[1:41:24] Speaker 3: you're not used to it because you're a human being
[1:41:26] Speaker 3: living in a world that's conditioned not to acknowledge this existence,
[1:41:30] Speaker 3: do you know what I'm saying? And that can get
[1:41:32] Speaker 3: quite hair raising. But in general, the ETS I have
[1:41:36] Speaker 3: to say are very nice, actually very friendly. I know,
[1:41:39] Speaker 3: for example, situation that occurred or I recovered from my
[1:41:42] Speaker 3: operation leading into the other contact groups. So I've described
[1:41:47] Speaker 3: two groups and this is the third one. So I
[1:41:51] Speaker 3: come back from York from the hospital back to Southport
[1:41:56] Speaker 3: and discover that I'm wondering about collapsing with mental exhaustion,
[1:42:00] Speaker 3: not physical but mental I'm absolutely zonked out. I mean,
[1:42:05] Speaker 3: who would not be. I've lost my mother, I'm having
[1:42:07] Speaker 3: an operation, I lost everything. I lost the house I
[1:42:10] Speaker 3: was living in since nineteen eighty six, and I had
[1:42:12] Speaker 3: to move. And that was a miracle. It's a lot
[1:42:14] Speaker 3: for a man to deal with. And by strange coincidence,
[1:42:18] Speaker 3: there was a contact TEA in the US who indicated
[1:42:20] Speaker 3: that we had a conversation and she more or less
[1:42:24] Speaker 3: this was bizarre, but she mora or less said her
[1:42:26] Speaker 3: mother worked for NASSA, and she more or less said,
[1:42:29] Speaker 3: I am going to speak to the ET group that
[1:42:31] Speaker 3: I am in contact with. This is not good. And
[1:42:36] Speaker 3: the bizarre incident happened two o'clock one Monday afternoon. I'm
[1:42:39] Speaker 3: laid out, exhausted in the bed. I don't know what
[1:42:42] Speaker 3: the hell's going on. And I just had the presence
[1:42:44] Speaker 3: of this beautiful, bald headed, green looking lady come in
[1:42:49] Speaker 3: front of me, who identified herself as an ET, who
[1:42:52] Speaker 3: identified herself as being part of one of these groups
[1:42:56] Speaker 3: that then she didn't tell me where she'd come from.
[1:42:58] Speaker 3: Didn't tell me where she'd come from, but other than
[1:43:00] Speaker 3: the fact that she had heard about what was going
[1:43:02] Speaker 3: on with me. But in some cases because their ets,
[1:43:05] Speaker 3: they don't always know. The news doesn't always get to
[1:43:08] Speaker 3: them sometimes. But she said that they were going to
[1:43:13] Speaker 3: assist me, and she was gorgeous. I mean, she just
[1:43:15] Speaker 3: oosed this beautiful feminine energy. It was quite a sight.
[1:43:20] Speaker 3: She was absolutely gorgeous. And then what happened was a
[1:43:24] Speaker 3: few days later. I don't know which ken first, but
[1:43:28] Speaker 3: it was the UFO incident on them, but it doesn't matter.
[1:43:30] Speaker 3: It happened basically. I lived near a place called the
[1:43:34] Speaker 3: Marine Lake near Southport, and the situation was these UFOs
[1:43:40] Speaker 3: came in when I was sat there. One of them
[1:43:42] Speaker 3: was a triangle with free pink lights on it. I've
[1:43:45] Speaker 3: never seen a triangle with free pink lights on it.
[1:43:49] Speaker 3: I've filmed the triangles, but not this particular type. And
[1:43:52] Speaker 3: it appeared over the Marine Lake for about five seconds, disappeared,
[1:43:57] Speaker 3: followed by a very bright ball of white light, and
[1:44:00] Speaker 3: I remember something happening to my energy, bodies energy, and
[1:44:05] Speaker 3: I've not suffered mental exhaustion since they intervened. They stopped it,
[1:44:11] Speaker 3: and then a few weeks later they came over the
[1:44:14] Speaker 3: rooftops again. It was a spectacular site. Really. She came
[1:44:18] Speaker 3: back again in a UFO was emerald green. It came
[1:44:23] Speaker 3: in over the rooftops and she hovered and I knew
[1:44:26] Speaker 3: it was her, and I knew she'd come to see
[1:44:28] Speaker 3: me to check up on me. She was just coming
[1:44:29] Speaker 3: to have a look. And they hovered around for a
[1:44:32] Speaker 3: bit and then they flew off silently at speed. But
[1:44:33] Speaker 3: it was a beautiful sight. And they identified themselves as
[1:44:37] Speaker 3: being from Arctyrras, and they indicated once again that they
[1:44:41] Speaker 3: have judiciary. They're not invading us. They're quite quite sharp,
[1:44:46] Speaker 3: very clever, very evolved, and they're watching. So what you've
[1:44:51] Speaker 3: got is luckily I'm being watched over and that's a
[1:44:54] Speaker 3: good thing. So we're talking about scenarios where these ets
[1:44:58] Speaker 3: have intervened and saved my saved my life on a
[1:45:01] Speaker 3: number of occasions, including the one it's in the public domain,
[1:45:04] Speaker 3: where I had fever and wasn't able to look after
[1:45:07] Speaker 3: my mother and that that was unbelievable. If you'd like
[1:45:10] Speaker 3: me to do, I can go into that if you wish,
[1:45:12] Speaker 3: if you wish to be sure, go ahead, okay, mate. Well,
[1:45:16] Speaker 3: the Nordics are in and out, in and out, and
[1:45:19] Speaker 3: the thing is with it is that the liaison is
[1:45:21] Speaker 3: going on it's still ongoing, but I don't know the
[1:45:23] Speaker 3: reason why. I'm still not quite clear. It's filtering back
[1:45:27] Speaker 3: to me as to why, but very slowly. They're not
[1:45:30] Speaker 3: quick on that. But that doesn't matter really. I'm just
[1:45:33] Speaker 3: actually enjoying what they're showing me that there is life
[1:45:37] Speaker 3: out there. We are being lied to and it's not good.
[1:45:41] Speaker 3: It's just not good that we're being led to in
[1:45:43] Speaker 3: the way that we are. And I know that during
[1:45:47] Speaker 3: the time I was looking after my mother before she
[1:45:50] Speaker 3: really went downhill, it was a Christmas twenty sixteen or
[1:45:54] Speaker 3: something like that, though it'd have to be twenty yeah,
[1:45:56] Speaker 3: it would have been about twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen Christmas time,
[1:46:00] Speaker 3: and I was unable to look after her because I
[1:46:03] Speaker 3: had flu. If you get flu out, I don't know
[1:46:05] Speaker 3: if you've had flu. If you had flu, yeah, you
[1:46:08] Speaker 3: can't get out of bed mate, How the hell I mean?
[1:46:10] Speaker 3: I had a dust mask on my face. I'm trying
[1:46:13] Speaker 3: to look after her. I can't get help because all
[1:46:16] Speaker 3: the cares from the care company have gone down ill relatives.
[1:46:21] Speaker 3: There's her one of her relatives who anyway, he's another story.
[1:46:24] Speaker 3: He was away and I'm thinking to myself I said, Mum, listen,
[1:46:28] Speaker 3: I've got to go upstairs and rest. I'm not well,
[1:46:31] Speaker 3: and she just went, go on, son, I'm all right,
[1:46:32] Speaker 3: bless her. I went upstairs and I sat on the bed,
[1:46:36] Speaker 3: and I've got fever, mate, I mean, I'm burning up,
[1:46:39] Speaker 3: and the room begins to spin. Now immediately you would think, oh, well,
[1:46:44] Speaker 3: he's illucinating. Well, if you think that, you're quite thick,
[1:46:47] Speaker 3: because I've told you there's a twenty year narrative behind this.
[1:46:51] Speaker 3: I know I'm not frigging illucinating, but anyway, I've got
[1:46:55] Speaker 3: fever to the level where I'm going delirious. I'm burning up,
[1:46:59] Speaker 3: and I'm looking after my mother and how the hell
[1:47:01] Speaker 3: she didn't get it? I have no idea. Next minute,
[1:47:05] Speaker 3: I know, I fall asleep, and then the next minute
[1:47:07] Speaker 3: I know I'm in a dream of a knock at
[1:47:09] Speaker 3: the door, but it's so real it's as if it's
[1:47:11] Speaker 3: like we're sat here. Now goes downstairs, opens the door
[1:47:16] Speaker 3: to discover the very blonde, blue eyed man who I
[1:47:19] Speaker 3: saw in the vision a few years in a few
[1:47:21] Speaker 3: years back, stood there just going hello, Tony, We've come
[1:47:25] Speaker 3: to see you. Are you all right? In fluent English?
[1:47:29] Speaker 3: And I went, no, I'm not, and he went, we
[1:47:31] Speaker 3: gathered that and he had this kind of I remember
[1:47:34] Speaker 3: he had an a ranking signia across here, like a
[1:47:38] Speaker 3: like an air man. It was quite unbelievable. And he
[1:47:42] Speaker 3: next minute, I know, there was this wah wah wah sound.
[1:47:45] Speaker 3: I remember that quite clearly, as if a craft was
[1:47:48] Speaker 3: applying power. And he took me to this in Britain,
[1:47:51] Speaker 3: there's like this monument, this great big structure called the
[1:47:54] Speaker 3: ribble Head Viaduct, which is a great big railway bridge
[1:47:58] Speaker 3: of magnificent structure. And he took me there, and I
[1:48:02] Speaker 3: remember him standing and looking up at this structure and
[1:48:05] Speaker 3: going totally, Dad, is a magnificent structure. In fluent English,
[1:48:08] Speaker 3: I'm thinking, who the hell are you? I'm not getting
[1:48:11] Speaker 3: in this who I I don't even know his name actually,
[1:48:13] Speaker 3: which bugs me, but never mind. And the next minute,
[1:48:17] Speaker 3: I know three hours of missing time had elapsed. My
[1:48:19] Speaker 3: mother had been asleep. She was all right, three hours
[1:48:22] Speaker 3: of missing time It felt like a minute, and I
[1:48:27] Speaker 3: was cured of my fever and I could look after
[1:48:30] Speaker 3: my mother. I was completely cured of it gone, and
[1:48:32] Speaker 3: I could look after her. So you see these kind
[1:48:35] Speaker 3: of constant interventions going on, you know, absolutely believe. And
[1:48:41] Speaker 3: of course there's so much more that I write about
[1:48:43] Speaker 3: in the writings about it all, but they're the primary
[1:48:45] Speaker 3: incidents with them where they keep coming in, going out,
[1:48:49] Speaker 3: checking in on me, speaking to me. It's unbelievable.
[1:48:52] Speaker 1: Really, I find interesting. You said that they have bases
[1:48:56] Speaker 1: that are here and that they they've always basically been
[1:49:01] Speaker 1: here under the water, underground. Tell us a little bit
[1:49:05] Speaker 1: about those. What do you know about them?
[1:49:07] Speaker 3: Well, I don't know. Well, I don't know a lot
[1:49:10] Speaker 3: about them, frankly. Nineteen I know that there was a
[1:49:13] Speaker 3: I know that there was an incident in France that
[1:49:15] Speaker 3: happened to a French farmer in nineteen sixty when he
[1:49:19] Speaker 3: was taken by Nordiki ts to a base in the Himalayas.
[1:49:24] Speaker 3: And his description of that was very accurate. And what
[1:49:27] Speaker 3: is interesting is on his return journey there was the
[1:49:31] Speaker 3: Nordics indicated that they had two Miraage jets following them,
[1:49:36] Speaker 3: and according to records that was actually recorded that these
[1:49:41] Speaker 3: Miraage jets were involved in a UFO incident. I had
[1:49:45] Speaker 3: an incident with two RAF jets in the UFO. If
[1:49:48] Speaker 3: your listeners want to hear about that as well. You
[1:49:51] Speaker 3: know that was quite absolutely unbelievable, but basically he was
[1:49:55] Speaker 3: then put back again. So we know that their bases
[1:49:58] Speaker 3: are in the Himalayas. Everybody thinks of America as been
[1:50:02] Speaker 3: the big shot in the UFO phenomena. We talk about
[1:50:05] Speaker 3: MG twelve, don't we, But there's another agency in America
[1:50:10] Speaker 3: not a lot of people know. I've called the Collins Elite,
[1:50:12] Speaker 3: which is an agency that I know of, a very
[1:50:16] Speaker 3: specialist agency, Christian UFO agency consisting of the Army, Navy,
[1:50:22] Speaker 3: air Force. But India really are India are a very
[1:50:26] Speaker 3: formidable force in understanding the UFO subject as a government
[1:50:30] Speaker 3: and as a military they are. And in the certain
[1:50:33] Speaker 3: areas of the Himalayas that the Indian Air Force will
[1:50:35] Speaker 3: venture into because of the presence of the UFOs there,
[1:50:39] Speaker 3: especially in the areas of Ladak in the mountains there,
[1:50:43] Speaker 3: they won't go in that area. You're dealing with the
[1:50:46] Speaker 3: equivalent military of somebody from another galaxy who's seven hundred
[1:50:50] Speaker 3: years ahead of us in technology, and they are well
[1:50:55] Speaker 3: they are forced to be reckoned with. I think that
[1:50:57] Speaker 3: our militaries are a bit wary of them, but there's
[1:51:00] Speaker 3: no invasion going on. They're not here to invade. There
[1:51:05] Speaker 3: is that thing with the US Navy now constantly kind
[1:51:08] Speaker 3: of coming in the media and reporting things about UFOs.
[1:51:11] Speaker 3: They're probably one of the lead agencies who know the information.
[1:51:15] Speaker 3: And the Indian Air Force knows an awful lot about
[1:51:18] Speaker 3: the UFO phenomena. It even did a back engineered project
[1:51:22] Speaker 3: using v amors trying to It's an official document. The
[1:51:25] Speaker 3: Indian Air Force researched VAMA flying machines to back engineer them.
[1:51:30] Speaker 3: I've forgotten the name of the document, but it's an
[1:51:32] Speaker 3: official Indian Air Force document. You see. So India under
[1:51:36] Speaker 3: India Gandhi, they were maneuvering their black ops, their black
[1:51:41] Speaker 3: kind of budget programs in relation to their Vedic text
[1:51:45] Speaker 3: and ancient texts which knew of interaction with extraterrestrials, you see.
[1:51:49] Speaker 3: And one of the things that the Vedic texts talk about,
[1:51:51] Speaker 3: as Dr Greer would say, is non locality, the mind
[1:51:56] Speaker 3: and the subconscious communicating across time without disc So that's
[1:52:01] Speaker 3: why you can communicate with someone in a gallony in
[1:52:03] Speaker 3: another galaxy very easy, because the time distance is basically collapsed.
[1:52:07] Speaker 3: If you get me, there's no time, it doesn't exist yet,
[1:52:11] Speaker 3: so you know that that's kind of like what happened there.
[1:52:14] Speaker 3: I don't really know much about their basis. There has
[1:52:17] Speaker 3: been incidents, a particular curious incident with one of the
[1:52:20] Speaker 3: UFO triangles that was absolutely I think out of all
[1:52:23] Speaker 3: the incidents I have, this one was was absolutely unbelievable
[1:52:26] Speaker 3: with it. And the liaison is still ongoing. It's not stopping,
[1:52:30] Speaker 3: it's not it's just trucking on and on and on.
[1:52:33] Speaker 3: And I sometimes fear for my life with all this.
[1:52:36] Speaker 3: I wonder how long I've got I do after what
[1:52:38] Speaker 3: I've been through. But I'm still here. I'm still trucking on.
[1:52:42] Speaker 3: But it is not easy, you know, not easy at all.
[1:52:45] Speaker 1: Yeah, there's also an aspect of this that the nuts
[1:52:50] Speaker 1: and bolts physical aspect researchers don't take into account, and
[1:52:55] Speaker 1: that's the dark occult, spiritual aspect. And how that's connect
[1:53:00] Speaker 1: did you know, the inner dimensional side, the things that
[1:53:05] Speaker 1: are not physical that we can't see, we can't explain,
[1:53:08] Speaker 1: but it's all connected to this somehow.
[1:53:10] Speaker 3: Yes. Indeed, interestingly, Lewis Elizondo in a briefing Tomwphone gives
[1:53:17] Speaker 3: that away. He gives it away very subtly. He says,
[1:53:21] Speaker 3: he stands in front of a new phone and he
[1:53:23] Speaker 3: tells them nothing. Actually, I mean he tells them that
[1:53:26] Speaker 3: he's do O D. I'm sure he's a very good man.
[1:53:29] Speaker 3: I'm sure that if he could have stopped my harassment
[1:53:31] Speaker 3: with his team, he would have done. I've not met him,
[1:53:33] Speaker 3: but I just get that impression that he'd be absolutely
[1:53:36] Speaker 3: outraged if he knew that this all this was going on,
[1:53:39] Speaker 3: you know, people being targeted. I think he's that sort
[1:53:42] Speaker 3: of man that his team. I think your government's security
[1:53:45] Speaker 3: apparatus would have tried to stop it if they could.
[1:53:47] Speaker 3: I'm sure of this. America is a great nation, and
[1:53:50] Speaker 3: he's got good people in it, and that's the thing.
[1:53:54] Speaker 3: But he was talking about the Department of Defense and
[1:53:57] Speaker 3: his his role in it all, and the fact that
[1:54:00] Speaker 3: some of his colleagues in the Department of Defense were
[1:54:03] Speaker 3: raising kind of religious concerns to the point about the
[1:54:08] Speaker 3: UFO phenomenon, to the point where it was actually freaking
[1:54:10] Speaker 3: them out. Well, it would do, because the one bit
[1:54:13] Speaker 3: that he didn't mention is exactly what you just said,
[1:54:16] Speaker 3: which is the occult and kind of esoteric carry on
[1:54:20] Speaker 3: that we see before us. For example, that symbol. You know,
[1:54:23] Speaker 3: you see the pop stars doing that and it's all
[1:54:27] Speaker 3: hip and all cool, all hip and all cool. They
[1:54:31] Speaker 3: have no idea at all what that's about. We approve
[1:54:34] Speaker 3: of his presence upon high is the esoteric kind of
[1:54:37] Speaker 3: thing of that, But whose presence did they approve of?
[1:54:40] Speaker 3: What presence? Why is it here? What's it doing? And
[1:54:43] Speaker 3: that you've walked straight into the very very correct area
[1:54:48] Speaker 3: of where all that's going. And so Lewis Elizondo and
[1:54:51] Speaker 3: his team, he kind of scanted over that at this
[1:54:54] Speaker 3: Newfhon lecture. That's what they were actually concerned about. And
[1:54:58] Speaker 3: in the book written by Lynn the multon Howe High Strangeness,
[1:55:01] Speaker 3: Volume one, quite a good book, there were some curious
[1:55:06] Speaker 3: writings by Linda Howe about her being approached by people
[1:55:09] Speaker 3: from the Department of Defense who were talking about America's
[1:55:13] Speaker 3: kind of ongoing trouble it was having with something called
[1:55:17] Speaker 3: non human entities or nhs, and they were kind of
[1:55:23] Speaker 3: like having difficulties with them. Well, it's demonic basically, it's
[1:55:27] Speaker 3: kind of like that force is around us. And so
[1:55:30] Speaker 3: unbeknown probably to these guys, there was the Agency, the
[1:55:33] Speaker 3: Collins Elite, and the Collins Elite were looking at this
[1:55:37] Speaker 3: very closely. They were looking at why UFOs were coming
[1:55:41] Speaker 3: into US air space as a matter of national security,
[1:55:44] Speaker 3: because these these UFOs were being a bit hostile. And
[1:55:49] Speaker 3: they I don't know how they did this, but they
[1:55:51] Speaker 3: nailed it down very clever people. They nailed it down
[1:55:55] Speaker 3: to a cult ritual as being a cause of of
[1:56:00] Speaker 3: the UFO phenomena, not all but a jigsaw so part
[1:56:03] Speaker 3: of it. And they nailed it down to one man.
[1:56:06] Speaker 3: Actually I've forgotten the guy's name. It's an excellent book
[1:56:10] Speaker 3: by Nick Redferne called Final Vents, all about the Collins Elite.
[1:56:15] Speaker 3: The head of the Collins Elite, sorry, the head of
[1:56:17] Speaker 3: Majestic is called MJ. One. What's fascinating me is that
[1:56:21] Speaker 3: the head of the Collins Elite is called Loftus Bridge
[1:56:25] Speaker 3: and that's a very curious name. Loftus Bridge is the
[1:56:29] Speaker 3: head of the Collins Elite. That's what his code name was.
[1:56:31] Speaker 3: Nick redfern I highly recommend it to get him on
[1:56:34] Speaker 3: his You show. He's a great guy. He's got documents
[1:56:37] Speaker 3: that indicate from from alleged Collins Elite members that indicate
[1:56:41] Speaker 3: references to the mysterious head of them called LOFTUS Bridge,
[1:56:45] Speaker 3: so that your military, this country's military have our actual
[1:56:49] Speaker 3: grasp and they do have a grasp of what is
[1:56:51] Speaker 3: going on to save all mankind. So America in that
[1:56:55] Speaker 3: sense is a great nation, as do Russia. Russia America,
[1:57:00] Speaker 3: they've got paranormal warfare units. They've got special paranormal warfare units.
[1:57:05] Speaker 3: Who know. Even the Russians indicated that they had contacted
[1:57:09] Speaker 3: extraterrestrials via their psychic special units and they were in
[1:57:14] Speaker 3: communication with them. When I asked for that Russian unit
[1:57:17] Speaker 3: to try and release that information to me, they indicated
[1:57:21] Speaker 3: their reply simply to me was turning open your heart
[1:57:23] Speaker 3: to them and you will know. And that was their reply.
[1:57:26] Speaker 3: They've got this spectacular website called new cosmology dot com.
[1:57:30] Speaker 3: It's the Russian remote viewing website. And their unit was
[1:57:34] Speaker 3: called Troop ten thousand and three and they used women
[1:57:37] Speaker 3: remote viewers only. And from what their general was saying,
[1:57:40] Speaker 3: General Savin comments that their contact, they had informational contact
[1:57:45] Speaker 3: with them, but these ets were only giving medical information.
[1:57:49] Speaker 3: They were not giving any military information. Only medical information
[1:57:53] Speaker 3: was being communicated with them. Yeah, so you know it's
[1:57:59] Speaker 3: I hope I'm painting a picture of what really goes
[1:58:02] Speaker 3: on as compared to what you're told. Do you know
[1:58:04] Speaker 3: what I'm saying? That's the thing.
[1:58:06] Speaker 1: Yeah, And right now, what's happening with everything in the
[1:58:11] Speaker 1: mainstream media being talked about with UFOs, it's coinciding with
[1:58:18] Speaker 1: what it seems like a major awakening for people, raising
[1:58:22] Speaker 1: of consciousness and also an unveiling of the you know,
[1:58:28] Speaker 1: the world behind houor some of the dark things that
[1:58:30] Speaker 1: are happening behind the scenes. Where do you think this is?
[1:58:34] Speaker 1: It feels like a build up to something major that's
[1:58:38] Speaker 1: going to happen. Do you think we're being prepared for
[1:58:42] Speaker 1: something that's coming in the near future?
[1:58:46] Speaker 3: When you say what I'll have to ask you the question,
[1:58:49] Speaker 3: what do you think that is? Do you mean a
[1:58:52] Speaker 3: alien's going to appear? Are they going to say, Hey,
[1:58:55] Speaker 3: that's what I'm wondering.
[1:58:55] Speaker 1: I'm wondering being prepared for that day that we're going
[1:59:00] Speaker 1: to find out something no matter what, like something big
[1:59:03] Speaker 1: is going to happen that the government knows about, but
[1:59:07] Speaker 1: you know it's going to happen and we're just being
[1:59:10] Speaker 1: prepared for it. It could be, you know, a fake
[1:59:13] Speaker 1: invasion that they're planning. It could be that we are
[1:59:17] Speaker 1: going to have open contact. That's the thing that I
[1:59:20] Speaker 1: don't know, but I just get the feeling that we
[1:59:22] Speaker 1: are being prepared for something.
[1:59:25] Speaker 3: Well, we are being prepared for something that the narrative,
[1:59:29] Speaker 3: the controlled narrative, tells us that we're being invaded for
[1:59:33] Speaker 3: very nefarious reasons because it don't actually say what it's
[1:59:36] Speaker 3: actually done. They then't actually say in public what they've
[1:59:40] Speaker 3: actually done, and I think that in fairness to Louis
[1:59:43] Speaker 3: Alazondo and his team, I think they know they knew
[1:59:47] Speaker 3: what's been going on, and they are gased at it,
[1:59:51] Speaker 3: you know, because there's good people in your country, as
[1:59:53] Speaker 3: I say, in your military and security apparatus, that want
[1:59:56] Speaker 3: the world to be a peaceful place. They don't want war.
[1:59:59] Speaker 3: So I think that. But what primarily, it seems that
[2:00:02] Speaker 3: the mission of these ets at the moment is not
[2:00:04] Speaker 3: so much disclosure full on contact with them, but prevention
[2:00:09] Speaker 3: in human affairs of conflict at a global level is
[2:00:12] Speaker 3: perhaps going on currently. As to where the direction of
[2:00:16] Speaker 3: contact goes with them in terms of disclosure, that's probably
[2:00:23] Speaker 3: one hundred to fifty years from now where we might
[2:00:26] Speaker 3: see something like that occur, and I think it would
[2:00:29] Speaker 3: happen via your military, and I think it would happen
[2:00:32] Speaker 3: via the Navy, and I think that it would be
[2:00:35] Speaker 3: an understanding of their science merging with ours into mainstream society.
[2:00:41] Speaker 3: The information that etes give to our military is very
[2:00:45] Speaker 3: drip drip drip. It's it's barely kind of it's very slow.
[2:00:50] Speaker 3: Disclosure doesn't happen overnight. It's not one of these the
[2:00:53] Speaker 3: day after disclosure. Don't kid yourself with these ets disclosure.
[2:00:58] Speaker 3: Just the thing with them is some of them look
[2:01:01] Speaker 3: like me and you. Some of them are more human inlock.
[2:01:04] Speaker 3: We are human in luck actually, And the thing with
[2:01:07] Speaker 3: that is that their populations are very variable. And it's
[2:01:11] Speaker 3: a good job they're in other galaxies because I have
[2:01:13] Speaker 3: no doubt in my mind we could go to war
[2:01:15] Speaker 3: with them for no apparent reason. You know that the
[2:01:18] Speaker 3: wars and conflicts are engineered. So it's kind of like,
[2:01:20] Speaker 3: in some ways a good thing, because it may be
[2:01:23] Speaker 3: that we might not get on with them, it may
[2:01:25] Speaker 3: be that we really might not see how to eye
[2:01:27] Speaker 3: with them as as human beings. So at the moment
[2:01:29] Speaker 3: they're being very subtle in their approaches of what they're doing.
[2:01:33] Speaker 3: I honestly believe that in terms of the UK and
[2:01:36] Speaker 3: the UK government. I actually genuinely believe that there is
[2:01:39] Speaker 3: an attempt by them at communication. There is an attempt
[2:01:43] Speaker 3: by them to I think a dialogue like diplomatic relations,
[2:01:47] Speaker 3: as if one NATO partner. If you could class them
[2:01:50] Speaker 3: as a NATO partner like the Nordics, If you could
[2:01:53] Speaker 3: class them as like a NATO partner, that's a very
[2:01:58] Speaker 3: interesting concept. If you could ast them as training with
[2:02:01] Speaker 3: our air force, you know, I mean, I'm just thinking
[2:02:04] Speaker 3: out the box, but you've got a civilization seven hundred
[2:02:07] Speaker 3: years ahead with an artificially intelligent craft practicing with our
[2:02:11] Speaker 3: air force. What they're practicing, you for, I've knowed. I'm
[2:02:13] Speaker 3: just thinking concepts. But it's military. It's war. It's just
[2:02:18] Speaker 3: not sitting with me comfortably precisely as to where it's
[2:02:22] Speaker 3: going at the moment, you see, despite having nearly forty
[2:02:25] Speaker 3: years of it, I'm just not precisely on it.
[2:02:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, I agree now to close out tonight, it's
[2:02:33] Speaker 1: definitely apparent that they want us to change something. And
[2:02:37] Speaker 1: I feel that it's the negative control system we're under,
[2:02:41] Speaker 1: the system that loves war and violence and is trying
[2:02:45] Speaker 1: to kill each other. I think that's what they're trying
[2:02:49] Speaker 1: to get the message across that we need to get
[2:02:52] Speaker 1: rid of we need to change. You know, if this
[2:02:54] Speaker 1: phenomenon is occurring, and if all these thousands and millions
[2:02:59] Speaker 1: of peaceeople who are experiencing it are experiencing the same thing,
[2:03:04] Speaker 1: you know, do you think that it's possible that we
[2:03:07] Speaker 1: can get out of this control system within our lifetime?
[2:03:12] Speaker 3: I hope. So there's a number of hybrid threats that
[2:03:16] Speaker 3: that they'll be dealing within the Yez, including nature. I mean,
[2:03:20] Speaker 3: you know, nature and the sea and the fact that
[2:03:24] Speaker 3: we cannot control our environment at the moment we're attempted to.
[2:03:27] Speaker 3: We just don't quite got the tech. That's the situation.
[2:03:31] Speaker 3: That's a hybrid threat going on, that we need to
[2:03:33] Speaker 3: clean up our environment most definitely, do I feel you see?
[2:03:37] Speaker 3: The thing is some of these civilizations don't have money,
[2:03:40] Speaker 3: and to your government, that's a national security issue that
[2:03:43] Speaker 3: so they know this. I've forgotten the report. There's a
[2:03:45] Speaker 3: specific report by an agency within the NSA who more
[2:03:49] Speaker 3: or less indicated that these ets do not have money,
[2:03:52] Speaker 3: you know, So that there's that going on. There was
[2:03:55] Speaker 3: something else. So I was just going to say, and
[2:03:57] Speaker 3: I've completely forgotten what it was, but oh, yes, that
[2:03:59] Speaker 3: was it. And so as well, when you think about
[2:04:01] Speaker 3: it this way, that there are young people with these extraterresss,
[2:04:06] Speaker 3: like the Nordics, for example, they've got children, they definitely
[2:04:10] Speaker 3: have children like we do. And those children are brought
[2:04:14] Speaker 3: up in an education system where it is of standard
[2:04:17] Speaker 3: acknowledgments that there is life in the universe, absolutely standard
[2:04:22] Speaker 3: education practice, that we are not alone in the universe.
[2:04:26] Speaker 3: And when you look at where they're at and when
[2:04:28] Speaker 3: you look at where we are with our paradigm, there
[2:04:32] Speaker 3: is a controlling mechanism going on, and it's in conflict
[2:04:35] Speaker 3: with itself, not only with humanity, but it's in conflict.
[2:04:39] Speaker 3: It wants its transcendence, it wants knowledge, but it doesn't.
[2:04:42] Speaker 3: It wants to control on the one hand, you know,
[2:04:45] Speaker 3: and on the other hand, it doesn't. And that's quite
[2:04:47] Speaker 3: you know, that's quite a thing. So, yeah, there is
[2:04:51] Speaker 3: an opposition to the controlling mechanism. Most definitely, we are evolving.
[2:04:55] Speaker 3: Human race is evolvings, most definitely is Yeah, indeed, it is.
[2:05:00] Speaker 1: M Yes, Tony, I agree, it is evolving. We're seeing
[2:05:04] Speaker 1: things that we've never seen before. We're living in fascinating
[2:05:08] Speaker 1: and amazing times, and I want to thank you so
[2:05:11] Speaker 1: much again for joining us tonight. There's much more we
[2:05:14] Speaker 1: can talk about, so I'll definitely have you back on.
[2:05:17] Speaker 3: Well, that'll be good, but that you know, give it
[2:05:19] Speaker 3: six months, Matie and I probably have a bigger you know,
[2:05:22] Speaker 3: a good picture of what's going on. But within six
[2:05:24] Speaker 3: months my book, which is called Revelations of a Paranormal
[2:05:27] Speaker 3: Intelligence Asset, probably in the next two months will be released.
[2:05:32] Speaker 3: That could cause controversy as well because it is about
[2:05:35] Speaker 3: paranormal intelligence all this. It is about intelligence gathering and
[2:05:39] Speaker 3: information most definitely it is. So I'll be I'm getting
[2:05:42] Speaker 3: that written at the moment and hopefully that should be
[2:05:44] Speaker 3: a good read for people.
[2:05:46] Speaker 1: Definitely we'll be looking forward to it and thanks again.
[2:05:49] Speaker 1: You'll have a great evening.
[2:05:51] Speaker 3: Oh thank you. Cheers mate.
[2:05:57] Speaker 1: If you're looking to start your therapy microdosing journey but
[2:06:02] Speaker 1: don't know where to start, especially when looking for the
[2:06:05] Speaker 1: highest quality ingredients including new tropics and what you'd expect
[2:06:10] Speaker 1: from a true microdose capsule, check out our friends at
[2:06:13] Speaker 1: Brain Supreme. They offer the absolute highest quality ingredients so
[2:06:18] Speaker 1: you can start your microdosing journey knowing that you're getting
[2:06:22] Speaker 1: top notch ingredients. To find out more, visit their website
[2:06:27] Speaker 1: using that link right in the description and you can
[2:06:30] Speaker 1: get fifteen percent off your entire order. Hello friends, I
[2:06:35] Speaker 1: am so excited to tell you about Independent Media Token.
[2:06:39] Speaker 1: Independent media Token is a brand new way to show
[2:06:43] Speaker 1: your support for independent media without having to donate a dime.
[2:06:48] Speaker 1: Independent media Token is a cryptocurrency on the Salana blockchain
[2:06:53] Speaker 1: designed to generate funds to promote and foster the growth
[2:06:57] Speaker 1: of independent content creator, allowing them to engage in their
[2:07:02] Speaker 1: art without having to worry about being demonetized through a
[2:07:06] Speaker 1: network of media partners of which you yourself can become
[2:07:10] Speaker 1: a part of. Independent Media Token's goal is to ensure
[2:07:15] Speaker 1: the powers that be can never cut off all of
[2:07:18] Speaker 1: our areas of funding and censor the only free voices
[2:07:22] Speaker 1: left in the world. Join the movement today. You can
[2:07:26] Speaker 1: pick up Independent Media Token using Phantom wallet or the
[2:07:29] Speaker 1: Solana wallet of your choice, where you can easily swap
[2:07:33] Speaker 1: your Solana for IMT. Grab some IMT today and remember
[2:07:38] Speaker 1: to always know your team. To learn more, visit independentmediatoken
[2:07:44] Speaker 1: dot com or use the link right in the description.
[2:07:48] Speaker 1: Are you and your family prepared for an emergency, maybe
[2:07:52] Speaker 1: the fake alien invasion. Now's the time to prepare yourself
[2:07:56] Speaker 1: and your family for any event. Check out prep starts Now.
[2:08:01] Speaker 1: Their mission is to provide high quality preparedness products that
[2:08:04] Speaker 1: empower individuals and families to be ready for any situation.
[2:08:09] Speaker 1: They're committed to delivering reliable, trusted gear to ensure your safety, security,
[2:08:15] Speaker 1: and peace of mind in times of need. Their product
[2:08:19] Speaker 1: selection is carefully curated to provide you with the essential
[2:08:22] Speaker 1: gear you need to stay prepared. From emergency kits to
[2:08:26] Speaker 1: tactical tools, Every item is chosen for its reliability and practicality.
[2:08:33] Speaker 1: Prep starts Now understands the importance of family, and their
[2:08:37] Speaker 1: goal is to equip you with everything you need to
[2:08:40] Speaker 1: build a solid plan for your family's preparedness. In today's
[2:08:44] Speaker 1: ever changing world, being prepared is more important than ever,
[2:08:48] Speaker 1: and prep starts Now is here to help you and
[2:08:52] Speaker 1: your family stay ready with quality products and practical guidance.
[2:08:57] Speaker 1: Use the link in the description and get fifteen percent
[2:09:00] Speaker 1: off your order. We live in an incredible age of information.
[2:09:06] Speaker 1: More and more we're discovering that we've been lied to
[2:09:10] Speaker 1: and misled about much of our human history. Corey Hughes
[2:09:14] Speaker 1: is providing profound revelations about World War I, World War II,
[2:09:20] Speaker 1: the JFK assassination, Martin Luther King's assassination, and much much
[2:09:25] Speaker 1: more on his new substack, Bloody History. Subscribe now for
[2:09:30] Speaker 1: as little as five dollars monthly. Just click that link
[2:09:34] Speaker 1: right in the description to get started now and learn
[2:09:38] Speaker 1: about our true history.

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.