# FKN Classics Double Feature! Scott Wolter - Hidden America | Ian Wilson - Lucid Dreaming

An episode of [Forbidden Knowledge News](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1470192028), 22 Jul 2026, 2 h 10 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/73096582/classicswolterian_sd_360p_medium_fr30_21072026.mp3

Enjoy these back to back throwback episodes! Forbidden Knowledge Network https://forbiddenknowledge.news/ FKN Link Tree https://linktr.ee/FKNlinks Make a Donation to Forbidden Knowledge News https://www.paypal.me/forbiddenknowledgene https://buymeacoffee.com/forbidden FKN Merch! https://galactecfire.com/fkn/ We are back on YouTube! https://youtube.com/@forbiddenknowledgenews?si=XQhXCjteMKYNUJSj Backup channel https://youtube.com/@fknshow1?si=tIoIjpUGeSoRNaEs Doors of Perception is available now on Amazon Prime! https://watch.amazon.com/detail?gti=amzn1.dv.gti.8a60e6c7-678d-4502-b335-adfbb30697b8&ref_=atv_lp_share_mv&r=web Doors of Perception official trailer https://youtu.be/F-VJ01kMSII?si=Ee6xwtUONA18HNLZ Listen to Forbidden Knowledge News on clearair.fm every Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday 12:15pm CST https://clearair.fm/ Pick up Independent Media Token here https://www.independentmediatoken.com/ Be prepared for any emergency with Prep Starts Now! https://prepstartsnow.com/discount/FKN Start your microdosing journey with Brainsupreme Get 15% off your order here!! https://brainsupreme.co/FKN15 Book a free consultation with Jennifer Halcame Email jenniferhalcame@gmail.com Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61561665957079&mibextid=ZbWKwL Watch The Forbidden Documentary: Occult Louisiana on Tubi: https://link.tubi.tv/pGXW6chxCJb C60 PurplePower https://go.shopc60.com/FORBIDDEN10/ or use coupon code knowledge10 Johnny Larson's artwork https://www.patreon.com/JohnnyLarson Sign up on Rokfin! https://rokfin.com/fknplus Podcasts https://www.spreaker.com/show/forbidden Available on all platforms Support FKN on Spreaker https://spreaker.page.link/KoPgfbEq8kcsR5oj9 FKN ON Rumble https://rumble.com/c/FKNp Get Cory Hughes books! Lee Harvey Oswald In Black and White https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FJ2PQJRM A Warning From History Audio book https://buymeacoffee.com/jfkbook/e/392579 https://www.buymeacoffee.com/jfkbook https://www.amazon.com/Warning-History-Cory-Hughes/dp/B0CL14VQY6/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=72HEFZQA7TAP&keywords=a+warning+from+history+cory+hughes&qid=1698861279&sprefix=a+warning+fro%2Caps%2C121&sr=8-1 https://coryhughes.org/ Our Facebook pages https://www.facebook.com/forbiddenknowledgenewsconspiracy/ https://www.facebook.com/FKNNetwork/ Instagram @forbiddenknowledgenews1 @forbiddenknowledgenetwork X https://x.com/ForbiddenKnow10?t=uO5AqEtDuHdF9fXYtCUtfw&s=09 Email Forbidden Knowledge News forbiddenknowledgenews@gmail.com some music thanks to: https://www.bensound.com/ ULFAPO3OJSCGN8LD DGLBEYNSIXA6EMZJ 5FUXWYNC6WJNJKRS 8DH27IXE3D73E97D C6JMAFZLSZDGTWFI Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/forbidden-knowledge-news--3589233/support.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Enjoy these back to back classic Forbidden Knowledge News episodes. Tonight,
[0:07] Speaker 1: I want to welcome Scott Walter. He is an author,
[0:10] Speaker 1: forensic geologist, and television hosts, best known as the host
[0:14] Speaker 1: of the series America on Earth. Based in Minnesota, he
[0:17] Speaker 1: is the founder and president of the American Petrographic Services
[0:22] Speaker 1: and the inventor of archaeo Petrography. Scott, Welcome, How are
[0:26] Speaker 1: you doing tonight?
[0:28] Speaker 2: Well, I'm doing good. Thanks for having me on. And
[0:32] Speaker 2: you know, I know tonight we're gonna be talking about
[0:34] Speaker 2: some cool stuff. But just just for the record, you know,
[0:37] Speaker 2: today is what happened in Washington, d C. When you
[0:42] Speaker 2: know some I don't want to call them protesters, that
[0:46] Speaker 2: was more rioters attack the capital. I was profoundly impacted
[0:52] Speaker 2: by that and disappointed. And as an American, you know, Russia,
[1:00] Speaker 2: China and our enemies are laughing at us right now.
[1:04] Speaker 2: And I hope that, I hope that our leaders really
[1:08] Speaker 2: take stock and what happened and show us the leadership
[1:13] Speaker 2: I know that we all can do when we come together,
[1:17] Speaker 2: and I'm really hopeful for that and I think we'll
[1:24] Speaker 2: rise to the challenge. But this has been a This
[1:26] Speaker 2: has been a tough day for the US, whether people
[1:28] Speaker 2: realize it or not, and it's been I'm sad, but
[1:35] Speaker 2: I'm also optimistic, so we'll see how things go. But
[1:38] Speaker 2: I just felt like I had to say something.
[1:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm also optimistic. You know, it's been the craziest
[1:44] Speaker 1: year ever, and I hope that this coming year we
[1:49] Speaker 1: will have some good things to look forward to instead.
[1:53] Speaker 1: But tonight I'm looking forward to We have so many
[1:55] Speaker 1: directions we could go. Not only out do I want
[1:58] Speaker 1: to talk about, you know, some various out of place artifacts,
[2:01] Speaker 1: a little bit about the templars, but also you've recently
[2:06] Speaker 1: obtained some information from an individual in the Department Events
[2:12] Speaker 1: about the heat phenomenon, which is going to be a
[2:16] Speaker 1: fan But this is your first time on I'd love
[2:19] Speaker 1: to hear what got you started and interested in geology
[2:23] Speaker 1: and petroglyphs and the work that you've done.
[2:26] Speaker 2: Okay, well, my interest in geology started when I was
[2:31] Speaker 2: graduating from high school. I took a trip out to
[2:34] Speaker 2: Montana with my brother and another friend and we went
[2:37] Speaker 2: hiking up in the Bridger Mountains and we ended up
[2:41] Speaker 2: getting to the top of this peak and I was
[2:44] Speaker 2: watching the sun go down. It was just one of
[2:46] Speaker 2: those picturesque moments. And there was a tube where you
[2:50] Speaker 2: could you unscrew the top pull out a ledger and
[2:54] Speaker 2: you could sign your name and date on it. And
[2:57] Speaker 2: as I was unscrewing this thing, I looked down and
[2:59] Speaker 2: I saw rob and there was a little bivalve a clamshell.
[3:05] Speaker 2: And I looked at that and I thought to myself,
[3:08] Speaker 2: how the hell did this shell that was at one
[3:12] Speaker 2: time at the bottom of an ocean end up at
[3:15] Speaker 2: the top of this mountain. And I was just so
[3:18] Speaker 2: intrigued and fascinated by that that it really sparked an
[3:22] Speaker 2: interest in geology. So I went to University of Minnesota, Duluth,
[3:27] Speaker 2: graduated in eighty two and geology and earth science, and
[3:32] Speaker 2: started working for a testing firm and eventually started American
[3:37] Speaker 2: Petrographic Services in January nineteen ninety. God, that's thirty one
[3:43] Speaker 2: years ago now, my gosh, time flies. Where we started
[3:49] Speaker 2: a laboratory where we do basically material forensics, but basically
[3:55] Speaker 2: what we really do is autopsies on concrete and rock.
[4:00] Speaker 2: In July of two thousand, the Kensington runstone came into
[4:04] Speaker 2: my laboratory, and I'll never forget the guy who was
[4:07] Speaker 2: representing the museum and he was talking to me, and
[4:09] Speaker 2: I could tell he was an advocate for authenticity, and
[4:13] Speaker 2: I said, look, dude, I said, I'll be happy to
[4:15] Speaker 2: do this work for you, but you may you need
[4:18] Speaker 2: to be prepared that I may come back and give
[4:20] Speaker 2: you news you're not going to like, and you're still
[4:23] Speaker 2: going to pay me, because because a beautiful thing is
[4:27] Speaker 2: it doesn't matter what the results are, I get paid
[4:29] Speaker 2: either way. So so you know, he was good with
[4:32] Speaker 2: that and the way we went. But I will tell
[4:34] Speaker 2: you I never I never heard of the Kensington runstone.
[4:38] Speaker 2: I didn't know what he was talking about, but it
[4:39] Speaker 2: really didn't matter whether I did or not, because you know,
[4:43] Speaker 2: the facts carry the day and anyway. So we did
[4:46] Speaker 2: the analysis and I ended up doing a weathering study
[4:49] Speaker 2: where I compared the weathering of the inscription on the
[4:52] Speaker 2: runstone with the weathering of tombstones of similar geology, exact
[4:58] Speaker 2: same minerals, virtually identical weathering environment, you know at above
[5:04] Speaker 2: and below grade, I mean, tombstones were perfect right, And
[5:08] Speaker 2: I ended up concluding that the age of the weathering
[5:12] Speaker 2: was older than two hundred years, and that was from
[5:16] Speaker 2: the date it was pulled out of ground, out of
[5:18] Speaker 2: the ground because it hasn't been in a weathering environment since,
[5:21] Speaker 2: which absolutely proved that it couldn't be a late nineteenth
[5:25] Speaker 2: century hoax as everybody claimed. And if it's not that,
[5:29] Speaker 2: you really have only one other option, and that is
[5:32] Speaker 2: that it's genuine. Now, I had no idea about sacred paradigms,
[5:37] Speaker 2: and you know, secret history and this is the narrative,
[5:42] Speaker 2: and that's it. There are no narratives in science. And
[5:46] Speaker 2: so I released my results and you know, people at first,
[5:52] Speaker 2: you know, were questioning, and I don't have any problem
[5:55] Speaker 2: if somebody has a question, and you know, I'm certainly
[5:58] Speaker 2: not above making a mistake. And if I made a mistake,
[6:01] Speaker 2: pointed out to me and I'll fix it. Well, that
[6:04] Speaker 2: wasn't the issue. They just didn't like the result. Well tough,
[6:08] Speaker 2: hop right, And so you know, at first it was
[6:13] Speaker 2: a little testy and then it got nasty. And you know,
[6:18] Speaker 2: I got to tell you, man, I went to UMD
[6:20] Speaker 2: on a football scholarship and I played linebacker. I don't
[6:23] Speaker 2: back down to anybody, especially when it comes to the
[6:27] Speaker 2: science and to the facts. And my conclusion, I stood
[6:33] Speaker 2: by it because I trust Rocks. I don't trust some people.
[6:41] Speaker 2: Rocks have never lied to me. Rocks don't have egos,
[6:45] Speaker 2: they don't have agendas, they just are. So I always
[6:48] Speaker 2: trusted what the Rock told me, and I, you know,
[6:51] Speaker 2: I heard what people had to say, but you know,
[6:55] Speaker 2: my foundation was the Rock. And that led to going
[6:59] Speaker 2: over to Sweden five times and finding all the language ruins, dialect, grammar,
[7:04] Speaker 2: dating features that all the experts said didn't exist. Well,
[7:09] Speaker 2: logic demands if this thing is real, the Rock says
[7:13] Speaker 2: it's real, Therefore these things must be so, and they were.
[7:17] Speaker 2: I found them all. Of course, all that did was
[7:20] Speaker 2: just piss everybody off even more, and you know, that's
[7:23] Speaker 2: how I got started on this. But the next phase
[7:27] Speaker 2: was if this is an authentic artifact, what that means
[7:32] Speaker 2: is somebody carved it, they came from some place, and
[7:36] Speaker 2: they came here for some reason. Absolutely those things are
[7:41] Speaker 2: universal truths, right, And then I set out to find
[7:46] Speaker 2: those things, and quite frankly, the evidence that led to
[7:49] Speaker 2: the medieval templars was one of the easiest evidence trails
[7:53] Speaker 2: I've ever followed. And it went to them and nobody
[7:55] Speaker 2: else with them, And of course I was criticized. Oh
[7:58] Speaker 2: you you know, the Templar, of course, is not convenient.
[8:01] Speaker 2: I go, it's not convenient. It's the truth, and get
[8:04] Speaker 2: used to it. And so the deeper I dove, and
[8:07] Speaker 2: the more questions we asked, you know, And and believe me,
[8:11] Speaker 2: I didn't do this on my own. I had a
[8:13] Speaker 2: lot of help from many different people, and I listened
[8:17] Speaker 2: to them and they helped, and eventually we figured out
[8:19] Speaker 2: it was the Templars, who you know, brought the treasures
[8:24] Speaker 2: from the Middle East and Europe, brought them over here
[8:28] Speaker 2: and placed them in the in the knowledge that in
[8:34] Speaker 2: the future the brethren, if you will, the ideological descendants
[8:38] Speaker 2: of the Templars, who are Freemasons and our founding fathers,
[8:43] Speaker 2: took on that obligation and they finished the job of
[8:46] Speaker 2: establishing what they called a sanctuary, the new Jerusalem, if
[8:51] Speaker 2: you will, where they could live in freedom from the
[8:55] Speaker 2: tyranny of the monarchs of Europe, freedom from the persecution
[8:59] Speaker 2: of the Roman Catholic Church, and you know, pursue life,
[9:04] Speaker 2: liberty and happiness. So that's the story. And to me,
[9:09] Speaker 2: it's patent lee obvious. I think you know what's happening now,
[9:14] Speaker 2: you know, in our government is really sad from the
[9:19] Speaker 2: standpoint of people are talking about the Constitution, but I
[9:23] Speaker 2: wonder how many of them understand that the Constitution is
[9:26] Speaker 2: a Masonic document. There's no question about that, okay, And
[9:31] Speaker 2: our founding fathers who wrote that. You know, George Mason
[9:36] Speaker 2: was the author of the Constitution. Really they give credit
[9:39] Speaker 2: to Thomas Jefferson, but George Mason wrote the Constitution of
[9:43] Speaker 2: Virginia and Jefferson basically used that as the template. But
[9:49] Speaker 2: right now we're being tested, and we're being tested from within.
[9:55] Speaker 2: And I think now more than ever, this story of
[9:58] Speaker 2: the Templars, the rooms down the Newport Tower, all these
[10:02] Speaker 2: other artifacts that have been screaming to be you know,
[10:06] Speaker 2: to be heard for a long time, need to be heard.
[10:10] Speaker 2: And we need to understand where we came from so
[10:13] Speaker 2: we don't fall into the same mess that happened. You know,
[10:18] Speaker 2: if we don't do our due diligence, people forget we
[10:22] Speaker 2: thought a revolution against the monarchy. Remember that the Revolutionary War?
[10:26] Speaker 2: Do we remember that? And remember who persecuted the Templars?
[10:31] Speaker 2: The Roman Church, right, and the church and the crowd
[10:34] Speaker 2: legitimized each other to create a terrible force that the
[10:41] Speaker 2: people suffered. And we're going down that path again. So
[10:45] Speaker 2: maybe what happened today is a wake up call, and
[10:48] Speaker 2: maybe if people understood the truth behind these artifacts, the
[10:52] Speaker 2: history behind these artifacts, that is our country's history, maybe
[10:59] Speaker 2: maybe we can figure out a way to come together
[11:02] Speaker 2: and go forward into the future. You know that old saying, Chris,
[11:06] Speaker 2: those who do not learn from the past are destined
[11:09] Speaker 2: to repeat it. And let's let's not fall into that trap.
[11:13] Speaker 2: We're smarter than that, We're better than that.
[11:16] Speaker 1: Definitely, I agree one hundred and you mentioned the Kensington Runestone.
[11:20] Speaker 1: I think that's a kind of good place to start.
[11:22] Speaker 1: I'd like to get.
[11:24] Speaker 2: Well on one set. Can I can I get off
[11:26] Speaker 2: my soapbox first? Okay, let's go.
[11:31] Speaker 1: So first let's get into what the mainstream narrative was,
[11:34] Speaker 1: and then what your discovery is brought to the table
[11:37] Speaker 1: when it comes to this the Kensington Runstone.
[11:41] Speaker 2: Sure, well, you know, the mainstream narrative is the Roomstones
[11:46] Speaker 2: a hoax. Ola Foeman carved it. He did it as
[11:50] Speaker 2: a prank. I mean, it's it's such a ridiculous premise.
[11:54] Speaker 2: It really doesn't deserve the dignity of even talking about because,
[11:58] Speaker 2: first of all, there is no evidence to support olive
[12:02] Speaker 2: omen could not have possibly carved that inscription. Based on
[12:06] Speaker 2: what we know now, Nobody walking the planet in eighteen
[12:10] Speaker 2: ninety eight could have carved the Kensington roomstone inscription. It's
[12:15] Speaker 2: just not possible. He had no motive, he had no objective.
[12:20] Speaker 2: He suffered and his family suffered terribly, and all he
[12:24] Speaker 2: did was find a stone and the only thing he's
[12:27] Speaker 2: guilty of is wanting to know what he found. So,
[12:31] Speaker 2: and you know, here's another thing about material forensics. It's
[12:34] Speaker 2: important for people to understand, and it will make sense
[12:37] Speaker 2: if you think about it, But it's not something that's
[12:39] Speaker 2: intuitive right off the bat. And that is all the
[12:45] Speaker 2: facts and evidence in multiple disciplines geology, language history, symbolism,
[13:00] Speaker 2: all these different aspects of the investigation and all the
[13:05] Speaker 2: facts within them all support authenticity one hundred percent. It's
[13:11] Speaker 2: really it's really one of the easiest problems I've ever solved. Right, So,
[13:16] Speaker 2: if you have all this evidence that supports authenticity, how
[13:21] Speaker 2: can there possibly be evidence to support the contrary? Think
[13:25] Speaker 2: about that it can't exist. If it's authentic, how can
[13:30] Speaker 2: there be any evidence to support the fact that it's
[13:32] Speaker 2: not true? There isn't any and there never was any.
[13:36] Speaker 2: So I challenge anybody to give me a fact that
[13:40] Speaker 2: supports that supports that it's not authentic. There isn't one,
[13:44] Speaker 2: and so you know, and and so that's just the
[13:49] Speaker 2: way it is. Now, why don't they want it to
[13:53] Speaker 2: be real? Right? Why do we have a certain narrative
[13:56] Speaker 2: that if something gets in the way of that, it's dismissed. Well,
[14:00] Speaker 2: it's the age old thing, money, power and control, right.
[14:05] Speaker 2: And the fact of the matter is, if you accept
[14:08] Speaker 2: the Kensington Roomstone as being an authentic artifact, look rewrite
[14:15] Speaker 2: the books. People say, well, gee, you have to rewrite history, Well,
[14:17] Speaker 2: then rewrite it right, sell more books. There's opportunities for
[14:21] Speaker 2: scholars to make all kinds of contributions. What's the freaking problem? Well,
[14:27] Speaker 2: the problem is there are certain powers that be that
[14:31] Speaker 2: I just mentioned, namely the Roman Catholic Church that has
[14:35] Speaker 2: a lot to lose if the Kensington Roomstone is authentic,
[14:39] Speaker 2: because what happens is you trigger a series of dominoes
[14:42] Speaker 2: that begin to fall, and they go to very inconvenient places, like,
[14:47] Speaker 2: for example, the Telpia tum in Jerusalem that I am
[14:52] Speaker 2: convinced contains ten ostuaries that hold the mortal remains of Jesus,
[14:59] Speaker 2: his wife Mary Mi and other members of the first
[15:02] Speaker 2: century royal family. Now, how can you have the bones
[15:06] Speaker 2: of somebody who supposedly was the son of God that
[15:09] Speaker 2: rose and went to heaven. Right, that's a problem. And
[15:14] Speaker 2: that's exactly one of the places where those dominoes go.
[15:18] Speaker 2: And I think, I think the the implications are self evident.
[15:24] Speaker 1: And the larger part of the story is of course
[15:27] Speaker 1: that the templars were uh you know, I guess charged
[15:31] Speaker 1: with you know, being in charge of these artifacts. And
[15:34] Speaker 1: they also were the founders of our country through free freemasonry.
[15:39] Speaker 1: And that's one of the things that we're not told
[15:41] Speaker 1: through our history books, mainstream narrative were never told.
[15:46] Speaker 2: And why is that?
[15:49] Speaker 1: Just like what you just mentioned, the power of the greed,
[15:53] Speaker 1: the you know, the narrative. They don't want to rewrite
[15:56] Speaker 1: history because that's what they basically have to do.
[15:59] Speaker 2: Well, it changes the whole dynamic. And you know, I
[16:03] Speaker 2: don't mean to continue to beat on the Church, but
[16:06] Speaker 2: I hate to tell you they're the ones that are
[16:08] Speaker 2: the biggest antagonists in this story. They're the ones that
[16:12] Speaker 2: funds the institution like the Smithsonian Institution, and and you know,
[16:18] Speaker 2: money follow the money. As they say, it's it's a
[16:24] Speaker 2: tragic story, and you know, there's there's there's a lot
[16:27] Speaker 2: more to this. But look, the Templars had they had
[16:32] Speaker 2: one over on the Church back in medieval times. It's
[16:35] Speaker 2: part of the reason they were able to rise and
[16:38] Speaker 2: be so successful. There were two things that that really
[16:42] Speaker 2: people don't understand about the Templars. One is the leadership
[16:45] Speaker 2: of the Templars and the true ideology. Ideology of the
[16:49] Speaker 2: Templars had nothing to do with Catholicism. They just pretended
[16:52] Speaker 2: to be Catholic, right, my enemy, you know, keep your
[16:56] Speaker 2: friends close, your enemies closer. And all the symbol and
[17:00] Speaker 2: the iconography of the Roman Catholic Church was borrowed from
[17:04] Speaker 2: things that were much older. I mean, just just look
[17:07] Speaker 2: at the Egyptian culture, right, and so these symbols to
[17:12] Speaker 2: the Templars, who were part of dynastic families that go
[17:16] Speaker 2: back generations and hundreds and thousands of years through Egypt
[17:21] Speaker 2: and beyond. You know, they knew what these symbols meant,
[17:27] Speaker 2: and they venerated the Virgin Mary, who was emblematic of
[17:31] Speaker 2: the Great Goddess to them. So they just they were
[17:34] Speaker 2: perfectly fine. Now their veneration of the Virgin actually got
[17:40] Speaker 2: a little bit, you know, too heavy for the Church,
[17:44] Speaker 2: and you know, they didn't quite understand. But when you
[17:47] Speaker 2: understand the true ideology, it all makes sense. The other
[17:51] Speaker 2: thing that was problematic is that the Templars had the evidence,
[17:56] Speaker 2: They had the marriage document of Jesus and Mary Magnin,
[18:00] Speaker 2: and they knew the truth about the fact he was
[18:02] Speaker 2: not divine. He was just a dude like the rest
[18:05] Speaker 2: of us. Right now, the whole fundamental basis of the
[18:13] Speaker 2: ideology of the Roman Church is that he was divine.
[18:17] Speaker 2: So if you hold evidence to prove that he was
[18:20] Speaker 2: not divine, you sure have a pretty powerful weapon against
[18:27] Speaker 2: this institution, which was the Church. And the Church knew it.
[18:31] Speaker 2: So this is part of the reason why the Templars
[18:34] Speaker 2: were able to be so successful, because they had the
[18:37] Speaker 2: blessing of the church, because they had him by the
[18:40] Speaker 2: you know what. But eventually, at the start of the
[18:43] Speaker 2: fourteenth century they got the right pope in place. They
[18:48] Speaker 2: had a maniac king of France who was ready to
[18:52] Speaker 2: take them on. And quite frankly, the Templars had gotten
[18:54] Speaker 2: a little fat and lazy by this time and they
[18:57] Speaker 2: were vulnerable, and so it was a combination of things
[19:00] Speaker 2: that led to their downfall, but they didn't go away.
[19:04] Speaker 2: A lot of people don't really understand the history of
[19:06] Speaker 2: what happened. I mean, you had, you know, tens of
[19:09] Speaker 2: thousands of templar knights that were supported by probably hundreds
[19:13] Speaker 2: of thousands of well not hundreds of thousands, but many
[19:17] Speaker 2: tens of thousands of people that supported a templar knight.
[19:21] Speaker 2: You probably had anywhere from ten to twenty people that
[19:24] Speaker 2: supported one night and his horses that fought in battle.
[19:29] Speaker 2: So it's a lot more complicated than people think. But
[19:32] Speaker 2: the only place that the order was physically suppressed was
[19:36] Speaker 2: in France. You had templars in many different countries, into
[19:40] Speaker 2: the Middle East, into Scandinavia, the British Isles, the Iberian Peninsula,
[19:45] Speaker 2: they weren't all in France. Now, that was where their
[19:48] Speaker 2: headquarters was. But believe me, the institution didn't end in
[19:52] Speaker 2: thirteen oh seven or thirteen fourteen when de Molat was burned.
[19:56] Speaker 2: They just continued on under the radar. But the whole
[19:59] Speaker 2: plan from the very beginning was to establish you know,
[20:04] Speaker 2: the sanctuary over in North America. That was always the
[20:07] Speaker 2: plan that this has always been the place where people
[20:10] Speaker 2: that were being persecuted long before the templars came around
[20:14] Speaker 2: their family ancestors, literal ancestors, and they knew that the
[20:19] Speaker 2: sanctuary that they could escape to was North America and
[20:22] Speaker 2: South America and Central America. So this BS about Columbus
[20:28] Speaker 2: is beyond laughable. And you know, if people want to
[20:33] Speaker 2: know the truth, this is the truth right here now.
[20:37] Speaker 1: I want to get into freemasonry a little bit. You're
[20:41] Speaker 1: free Mason, and I am. I believe that the Catholic
[20:46] Speaker 1: Church personally demonized freemasonry a lot, and I think that's
[20:51] Speaker 1: a good reason why we had a love of a
[20:53] Speaker 1: lot of these conspiracies these days that's around freemasonry, you know,
[20:57] Speaker 1: about how it's evil and things like that. Would you
[21:01] Speaker 1: agree that it would be because the Catholic Church that
[21:05] Speaker 1: we have the view that most modern people have of
[21:09] Speaker 1: Freemasonry today, that it's some sort of evil secret society
[21:13] Speaker 1: that runs the world.
[21:15] Speaker 2: Well, you know, if we're running the world. I'm a
[21:18] Speaker 2: little bit disappointed. Okay, I didn't get the memo there,
[21:21] Speaker 2: and and so I don't I don't you know, I
[21:26] Speaker 2: I I mean, I I understand. You know, anytime you
[21:31] Speaker 2: have an organization that is secret, right, people are people
[21:38] Speaker 2: that are not part of it are going to question it,
[21:40] Speaker 2: criticize it, attack it, and and it's just it's just
[21:45] Speaker 2: I think a human thing that people fear, fear the unknown, right.
[21:49] Speaker 2: And you know, I can tell you that, you know, Freemasonry,
[21:55] Speaker 2: like everything has evolved over time, right, and you go
[22:00] Speaker 2: back to the time of our founding fathers, secrecy was
[22:06] Speaker 2: a matter of life and death, right. I mean, if
[22:09] Speaker 2: you did not keep a secret about what we were doing,
[22:14] Speaker 2: you know, in our fight against the British, you were dead,
[22:18] Speaker 2: right if you are considered a spy. So back then,
[22:22] Speaker 2: the whole element of secrecy and handshakes and signs of
[22:25] Speaker 2: recognition was part of espionage, right, it was part of
[22:30] Speaker 2: your mission to you know, win the war. And even
[22:37] Speaker 2: going forward, you know, the Civil War, same thing when
[22:42] Speaker 2: we start getting into the more modern era, though we
[22:45] Speaker 2: still have a lot of Freemason who was more popular
[22:48] Speaker 2: than ever in the late eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds
[22:51] Speaker 2: after the Second World War, a lot of the guys
[22:53] Speaker 2: had fought missed that fraternal brotherhood aspect of being in war, right,
[22:59] Speaker 2: and Freemasonry exploded after that. But you know, as time
[23:03] Speaker 2: has gone on, things are different, the world has changed,
[23:08] Speaker 2: you know. But but the thing is is that young
[23:11] Speaker 2: people are still asking those big questions in life, you know,
[23:17] Speaker 2: you know, is there a God? You know, what happens
[23:19] Speaker 2: after I die? You know, all that kind of stuff.
[23:22] Speaker 2: But they're not getting those answers in church as much
[23:25] Speaker 2: as they used to. The people are moving away from
[23:27] Speaker 2: the church because in many ways, it's unhealthy to have
[23:33] Speaker 2: an institution that is run by human beings, you know,
[23:39] Speaker 2: giving people those answers. A lot of those answers should
[23:41] Speaker 2: come from within. But you know, one of the things
[23:45] Speaker 2: about about the Church that I think that that irritates
[23:49] Speaker 2: them about freemasonry is we don't care if you're a Christian,
[23:53] Speaker 2: a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist. Native Americans take their
[23:57] Speaker 2: obligation on an eagle feather. The point is, we do
[24:01] Speaker 2: ask people to make a statement in a belief in
[24:04] Speaker 2: a higher power. Who that higher power is, what you
[24:08] Speaker 2: call it. We don't care because we're all talking about
[24:12] Speaker 2: the same thing, right and and that's really nobody's business
[24:17] Speaker 2: but your own. And so this is part of what
[24:20] Speaker 2: makes the church uncomfortable. So of course they you know,
[24:23] Speaker 2: they demonize it by saying things that just aren't true.
[24:27] Speaker 2: And you know, you know, we do take obligations to
[24:33] Speaker 2: protect our brothers, to protect our family, to protect our country,
[24:37] Speaker 2: to you know, we do a lot of charity work.
[24:43] Speaker 2: We donate a lot of money to many different causes.
[24:47] Speaker 2: And it's our record speaks for itself. And really, the
[24:52] Speaker 2: only secrets that we can't talk about are the passwords,
[24:56] Speaker 2: the penal signs, in the in the handshakes, right, But
[24:59] Speaker 2: if you want to know what they are, just go online.
[25:01] Speaker 2: You can get it all there, right. So what secrets
[25:04] Speaker 2: do we have in this day and age? Really, the
[25:11] Speaker 2: secrets we have are the secrets that you know that
[25:16] Speaker 2: that a brother might share with me and I might
[25:18] Speaker 2: do with somebody else. But it is a worldwide organization,
[25:23] Speaker 2: and I can tell you that like anything else. I mean,
[25:27] Speaker 2: if you've fought in a war, or if you played
[25:29] Speaker 2: on a sports team, or if you're part of the
[25:33] Speaker 2: you know, the fraternity, you meet somebody that was on
[25:36] Speaker 2: your team, you guys are already up here, right, You
[25:39] Speaker 2: don't have to start down here. You guys have already
[25:41] Speaker 2: shared a common experience. It's the same thing. And you
[25:45] Speaker 2: know you've been in battle, right, I played a lot
[25:47] Speaker 2: of football. Man, it gets pretty rough and you got
[25:49] Speaker 2: to have each other's back if you want to be successful.
[25:52] Speaker 2: And same thing in war, and but it's it's it's
[25:56] Speaker 2: it's not quite the same, but it's very similar and
[26:00] Speaker 2: it's nothing to fear. It's also a place to learn.
[26:06] Speaker 2: You know. We use the code word light. Light means knowledge,
[26:11] Speaker 2: and we we seek to bring light. We teach people.
[26:15] Speaker 2: My job, my primary job, I guess you would say
[26:21] Speaker 2: within freemasonry is I'm an educator. I'm a researcher and
[26:25] Speaker 2: I give lots of lectures. You know. L e O
[26:32] Speaker 2: is the Lodge Education Officer, and I'm asked oftentimes to
[26:37] Speaker 2: go in and give you know, fifteen to minutes to
[26:40] Speaker 2: half hour speech at a lodge meeting or at Grand
[26:44] Speaker 2: Lodge or whatever. And I take great pride in that
[26:49] Speaker 2: because these guys they're there because they want to learn.
[26:53] Speaker 2: So it's you know, I don't know what's wrong with that.
[26:59] Speaker 1: Now you earlier that this is not a Christian nation.
[27:03] Speaker 1: This was not founded as a Christian nation. It was
[27:05] Speaker 1: founded as a Masonic nation. And the Constitution is actually
[27:10] Speaker 1: a Masonic document. And that's something else that people, most
[27:14] Speaker 1: people do not realize. And also I think it was
[27:18] Speaker 1: fifty three of the fifty six signers. Correct, we're Masons.
[27:22] Speaker 2: Right, we're master Masons. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And you know,
[27:27] Speaker 2: the whole it's really troubling because, you know, I hear
[27:34] Speaker 2: a lot of talk about, you know, evangelicals. That's fine,
[27:40] Speaker 2: if you want to be an evangelical, that's you're right,
[27:43] Speaker 2: But don't make the stake mistake of thinking just because
[27:46] Speaker 2: we have more Christians in this country than any other
[27:49] Speaker 2: religion means that we are a Christian country. It's very,
[27:52] Speaker 2: very important that people realize that we are not a
[27:56] Speaker 2: Christian nation. And one of the main reasons for that Islerance. Right,
[28:01] Speaker 2: you need to be tolerant that just because you have
[28:03] Speaker 2: the dominant view doesn't mean it's the only view. And
[28:07] Speaker 2: quite frankly, one of the things that I like about
[28:11] Speaker 2: meeting people from other countries, other religions, other cultures is
[28:17] Speaker 2: I know what goes on in my world right here
[28:20] Speaker 2: in the United States, at least here in Minnesota where
[28:24] Speaker 2: I live. I don't learn anything new very often about
[28:28] Speaker 2: my place. When I go to another country, I go
[28:30] Speaker 2: to a different part of the country, I might I
[28:32] Speaker 2: meet people of different ethnicities, different races. I learned from
[28:38] Speaker 2: them and they learn from me, and you know, I'm
[28:43] Speaker 2: I'm better off. I'm a better person by you know,
[28:48] Speaker 2: learning about somebody else and and teaching them about what
[28:52] Speaker 2: I know. So that's those are some of the ideals
[28:56] Speaker 2: upon which this nation was founded. And we need more tolerance.
[29:02] Speaker 2: We need more people listening instead of telling us what
[29:07] Speaker 2: they think all the time, right, you know what I'm.
[29:10] Speaker 3: Saying, I do.
[29:11] Speaker 1: And something else of interesting I've heard you mention is
[29:14] Speaker 1: that some of the Native Americans had their own secret societies,
[29:19] Speaker 1: like the Templars, and actually we're kind of like their
[29:23] Speaker 1: brethren and we're not.
[29:25] Speaker 2: Kind of not kind of absolutely.
[29:30] Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about that.
[29:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Well the secret society is called the Midday
[29:35] Speaker 2: When and it's still alive and well today I know
[29:41] Speaker 2: several Indigenous people who are Midday And it's a freemasonry
[29:48] Speaker 2: from you know, from a Native perspective. They don't call
[29:51] Speaker 2: it freemasonry, but it's essentially the same thing. The rituals
[29:55] Speaker 2: are very much the same, the traditions. I mean a
[29:59] Speaker 2: lot of details that I have learned. I'm like, oh,
[30:03] Speaker 2: I know what that is. Oh yeah, that sounds familiar,
[30:08] Speaker 2: and you know when you the other thing, when you
[30:13] Speaker 2: go into lodge, when you when you meet as a mason,
[30:20] Speaker 2: you know, it's something that we take a lot of
[30:22] Speaker 2: pride in and so we we we go there and
[30:28] Speaker 2: we we honor our brothers, we pay respects, we listen,
[30:32] Speaker 2: and it's the same thing that the Meday do. And
[30:36] Speaker 2: so when the Templars came over here practicing which was
[30:40] Speaker 2: essentially free masonry. You know, I use the analogy that
[30:49] Speaker 2: you know, the Templars when they when they carved the
[30:52] Speaker 2: Kensington roomstone in the middle of the continent, they didn't
[30:57] Speaker 2: fight their way to Kensington, right, There's no way at
[31:00] Speaker 2: that time, you know, the natives were going to let
[31:02] Speaker 2: them get there unless they had some type of an understanding. Okay,
[31:06] Speaker 2: I don't know why. I feel like I'm the first
[31:08] Speaker 2: person that has ever even thought about this. Never have
[31:12] Speaker 2: I ever seen anyone talk about the native perspective in
[31:16] Speaker 2: this question, which is patently obvious. There has to have
[31:20] Speaker 2: been interaction with these people. What was that interaction? Well,
[31:24] Speaker 2: it turns out because they shared this common bond, a brotherhood.
[31:30] Speaker 2: I mean, I was in a Miday sweat a number
[31:32] Speaker 2: of years ago and I wanted to ask, you know,
[31:35] Speaker 2: the medicine man about the Templars, but I had to
[31:38] Speaker 2: earn the right to ask my questions, and I had
[31:41] Speaker 2: to go through a certain ritual. It was beautiful, and
[31:44] Speaker 2: then go ahead. Scott asked you questions and I said, well,
[31:48] Speaker 2: I want to ask you about the Templars and he said,
[31:51] Speaker 2: you mean our blood brothers. And that was all I
[31:55] Speaker 2: needed to hear, really, because I knew then that what
[31:58] Speaker 2: I surmised had be the case for them to be
[32:02] Speaker 2: able to operate not just get the Minnesota, but all
[32:05] Speaker 2: across the continent. Because they were all across the continent.
[32:08] Speaker 2: There had to be a relationship with the indigenous people.
[32:11] Speaker 2: And you know, they're not any different than any other
[32:15] Speaker 2: group of people, right, Treat them with respect, treat people
[32:19] Speaker 2: the way that you want to be treated, and you
[32:20] Speaker 2: get it back right, And that's how you build trust
[32:25] Speaker 2: in a relationship. And so by meeting in lodge and
[32:30] Speaker 2: sharing these rituals and eventually intermarrying and assimilating, that's how
[32:37] Speaker 2: the Templars were able to be so successful over here.
[32:40] Speaker 2: And you know that's the elephant in the room that
[32:43] Speaker 2: I've never heard anyone really talk about.
[32:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, especially now. I mean, you don't hear anything any
[32:51] Speaker 1: mainstream talk of any of the templars are Freemason history.
[32:55] Speaker 1: It's all independent media. It's all independent journalists, you know,
[32:59] Speaker 1: like people like yourself that are unearthing these things and
[33:03] Speaker 1: coming talking about them. But you know, do you think
[33:07] Speaker 1: that mainstream media, if more and more people like yourself
[33:10] Speaker 1: keep coming out with this, and you know they're not
[33:13] Speaker 1: going to be able to deny it anymore, history books
[33:15] Speaker 1: will eventually have to be rewritten. Or do you think
[33:18] Speaker 1: they're just going to keep pushing the same narrative as
[33:20] Speaker 1: long as they can until I mean, I don't know.
[33:23] Speaker 2: Well, I think you know, look, I'm a big believer
[33:27] Speaker 2: in an old, old adage that the truth eventually will
[33:31] Speaker 2: bubble to the surface. Right, you could only keep it
[33:34] Speaker 2: down for so long, and you look that the facts
[33:38] Speaker 2: are going to carry the day. And what's really surprising
[33:42] Speaker 2: to me is how many really smart people are happy
[33:51] Speaker 2: to take advantage of all the benefits and luxuries and
[33:55] Speaker 2: conveniences of science and technology like this right and like
[34:01] Speaker 2: this what we're doing right now. But then on the
[34:04] Speaker 2: other hand, they will completely throw out logic and science
[34:09] Speaker 2: and facts to argue, you know, their ideological viewpoint about
[34:14] Speaker 2: certain things, like you know, Columbus or No, the Templars
[34:19] Speaker 2: couldn't have come here because I don't like that idea
[34:23] Speaker 2: and the Church doesn't like that idea. I mean, you
[34:26] Speaker 2: can suppress it for so long and eventually it's got
[34:29] Speaker 2: to come out. Now. Having said that, you have corrupt
[34:34] Speaker 2: institutions that are funded by the Church, like Wikipedia, and
[34:40] Speaker 2: I will give you an example. And this isn't bragging.
[34:44] Speaker 2: It's a simple fact. I am. I have done more
[34:50] Speaker 2: work on the Kensington Runstone, on all aspects of the Roomstone,
[34:56] Speaker 2: more than anyone in the history of the artifact since
[34:59] Speaker 2: it was found. And I'm not saying that to brag.
[35:01] Speaker 2: It just is what it is, okay, and I think
[35:06] Speaker 2: I've done some pretty good work. If you google Kensington Runstone,
[35:11] Speaker 2: you will not see my name. You will not see
[35:14] Speaker 2: any of the four books I've published that were all
[35:17] Speaker 2: or partly about the Kensington Roomstone. But one book that
[35:22] Speaker 2: you will see check this out is this book right here.
[35:33] Speaker 2: It's called The Kensington Runstone Approaching a Research Question Holistically
[35:40] Speaker 2: written by Alice beck Kehole, a retired professor of archaeology
[35:45] Speaker 2: from the University of Wisconsin. At Madison. I published a
[35:51] Speaker 2: five hundred and seventy four page book with a linguist
[35:56] Speaker 2: who is also scientist of Dick Nielsen. He is he
[36:00] Speaker 2: passed away a few years ago, and that is the
[36:04] Speaker 2: Bible on the Kensington roounstop. This book is about that book.
[36:12] Speaker 2: And she said that we saw the Kensington runstone. But
[36:16] Speaker 2: the book she's writing about is not on the wiki site.
[36:19] Speaker 2: But this is now. You tell me if that's not
[36:24] Speaker 2: fed l okay. So, so you know, is it going
[36:28] Speaker 2: to change? I hope so. I don't think it will
[36:32] Speaker 2: happen in my lifetime unfortunately, But as I said, I
[36:35] Speaker 2: stand behind every all the work I've done. I stand
[36:39] Speaker 2: behind everything I've said, and I know that in the
[36:44] Speaker 2: future it'll all It'll all be it'll all, it'll all
[36:49] Speaker 2: be accepted. It has to, because it's the truth.
[36:52] Speaker 3: Now.
[36:52] Speaker 1: Sticking to kind of out of place and interesting artifacts,
[36:57] Speaker 1: you recently did some work with the mystery stones of tech. Yeah,
[37:01] Speaker 1: those that are not familiar. Could you tell us a
[37:03] Speaker 1: little bit about what those are and you know some
[37:06] Speaker 1: of the conclusions you've come up with.
[37:08] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well you know that's still really an open investigation.
[37:13] Speaker 2: But I think we're getting to the bottom of that
[37:16] Speaker 2: well a little bit. I actually need to write that up,
[37:18] Speaker 2: but I've been so busy with other stuff having a
[37:20] Speaker 2: chance and I really want to do some more lab
[37:22] Speaker 2: work on these stones. But basically, it was a year
[37:26] Speaker 2: ago in February next month that I first learned about
[37:30] Speaker 2: these artifacts. I was at a conference and somebody had
[37:35] Speaker 2: mentioned these artifacts and he showed me a couple of
[37:38] Speaker 2: pictures and I said, I got to see these. So
[37:42] Speaker 2: what I did was I went down to Texas a
[37:45] Speaker 2: couple of times to look at these artifacts. And what
[37:48] Speaker 2: they are is they're carved on sandstone, and some of
[37:51] Speaker 2: them are like this big. Some of them are one
[37:54] Speaker 2: of them is about four and a half feet long.
[37:57] Speaker 2: But they were found inside of a cave along a
[38:01] Speaker 2: little stream next to an old Spanish mission in central Texas,
[38:09] Speaker 2: and they were found I think the first There was
[38:14] Speaker 2: a date that was carved on the rock outside, but
[38:19] Speaker 2: there was dated fifteen oh one, and a guy saw
[38:23] Speaker 2: that in nineteen sixty eight, but then he didn't really
[38:25] Speaker 2: go over there and investigated fully until the year two
[38:29] Speaker 2: thousand and In two thousand and four, they discovered a
[38:32] Speaker 2: cave that had been sealed up and these carved slabs
[38:37] Speaker 2: had been piled up, you know, like blocks, like slabs
[38:42] Speaker 2: of rock on top of each other, and they were
[38:45] Speaker 2: covered with these strange carvings with multiple language languages, strange iconography, archangels,
[38:54] Speaker 2: some of them were maps that they think were treasure maps.
[38:58] Speaker 2: There's just this eclectic election of carvings and iconography and
[39:05] Speaker 2: like I said, languages, and they're definitely weathered. We don't
[39:11] Speaker 2: know how long they were put in the cave. But
[39:14] Speaker 2: here's the thesis that we're going on is we know
[39:17] Speaker 2: that in the Iberian Peninsula, which is Spain and Portugal,
[39:21] Speaker 2: that in the starting in the late fifteenth century, sixteenth century,
[39:28] Speaker 2: seventeenth century, oh well right up to today, it's not
[39:34] Speaker 2: the same as it was. But the Church demanded that
[39:37] Speaker 2: people be Catholic. Right, Well, you had people who were Jewish,
[39:44] Speaker 2: that are what they called crypto Jews. They were outwardly
[39:49] Speaker 2: Catholic but inwardly Jewish, right, they pretended to be Catholic,
[39:53] Speaker 2: but they were really Jews. And so what happened is
[39:57] Speaker 2: in the late fifteenth century, many of these people were
[40:03] Speaker 2: under persecution from the Roman Catholic Church, and so the
[40:08] Speaker 2: church actually came out with an Inquisition on the day
[40:12] Speaker 2: that Columbus set sail on his first voyage. Now there's
[40:16] Speaker 2: a lot of evidence that suggests that Columbus himself was
[40:20] Speaker 2: a crypto Jew, and many of these people were given
[40:25] Speaker 2: a choice. You can either convert forever, you can leave,
[40:31] Speaker 2: or will kill you. What do you think? Well, I
[40:35] Speaker 2: think a lot of these people said, you know, I
[40:38] Speaker 2: think I'm gonna leave. So a lot of them probably
[40:42] Speaker 2: went with Columbus. Many of them came on other voyages
[40:47] Speaker 2: subsequent to that, all the way through to the into
[40:51] Speaker 2: the seventeen hundreds. And we know that we have these
[40:55] Speaker 2: missions that were established in northern Mexico along the Gulf
[40:59] Speaker 2: coast and into southern what is now southern Texas. But
[41:03] Speaker 2: this location isn't anywhere near the coast. It's quite a
[41:07] Speaker 2: ways inland. And the question remains, now, could this have
[41:11] Speaker 2: been a group of these crypto Jews, And if so,
[41:15] Speaker 2: why do we have different We have Hebrew there, but
[41:18] Speaker 2: the language is actually what they call Ladino, which is
[41:25] Speaker 2: Hebrew in Spanish, kind of a mixture of Hebrew and Spanish,
[41:28] Speaker 2: not Latino Ladino. And the iconography on these is just
[41:35] Speaker 2: so varied. I mean, some of them have beautiful Egyptian
[41:38] Speaker 2: iconography of the Nubis and Isis and you know, what
[41:43] Speaker 2: is this stuff doing here? Well, in fact, back at
[41:46] Speaker 2: that time, Egyptian stuff was all the rage, right, so
[41:51] Speaker 2: and and and.
[41:52] Speaker 1: What time period was these were these.
[41:55] Speaker 2: They We've got dates on some of these that go
[41:58] Speaker 2: from fifteen oh one, fifteen oh six, fifteen oh seven,
[42:03] Speaker 2: fifteen thirteen, fifteen thirty seven, all the way into the
[42:07] Speaker 2: mid eighteenth century. Seventeen sixty five I think is the
[42:12] Speaker 2: most recent date. So you've got a period of you know,
[42:16] Speaker 2: about two hundred and fifty years that we think that
[42:19] Speaker 2: this colony and subsequent generations were occupying this area. And
[42:24] Speaker 2: I think most of these stones were probably grave slabs,
[42:28] Speaker 2: that's why they're weathered, right, And so what happened is
[42:33] Speaker 2: something happened, And what I think it was is they
[42:36] Speaker 2: caught wind that the Church was coming, The Spanish were coming,
[42:43] Speaker 2: the Church was coming with them, and these people who
[42:45] Speaker 2: were openly practicing Judaism, and who knows what else they
[42:50] Speaker 2: got rid of these stones, which would have provided, you know,
[42:53] Speaker 2: a problem for him if the Church had seen these
[42:56] Speaker 2: grave slabs and the symbols and the language and the
[43:00] Speaker 2: the phrases that are on them, So we think something
[43:03] Speaker 2: happened and that's why they put them in these caves.
[43:05] Speaker 2: Now we don't know that for sure, but that seems
[43:07] Speaker 2: to be reasonable speculation. But like I said, we have
[43:10] Speaker 2: a lot more work to do on them. It's a
[43:12] Speaker 2: fascinating story that isn't a pre Columbian story. It actually
[43:18] Speaker 2: may actually involve Columbus, which is kind of cool in itself.
[43:23] Speaker 1: Definitely.
[43:23] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[43:24] Speaker 1: Yeah, And what other type of I guess work do
[43:29] Speaker 1: you have to do to get more information from these?
[43:34] Speaker 2: Well, you know, the inscriptions are really difficult to decipher
[43:39] Speaker 2: because if it was just straight Hebrew, that would be
[43:43] Speaker 2: one thing there. On many of them, I'd say probably
[43:46] Speaker 2: seven or eight of them, they're using Hebrew letters, they're
[43:49] Speaker 2: using the Hebrew alphabet, but the language is not Hebrew.
[43:53] Speaker 2: It's this sort of mixture, right, And it was somebody
[43:58] Speaker 2: who understood the Hebrew alphabet pretty well but not really well,
[44:04] Speaker 2: and spoke this, you know, this sort of Hebrew Spanish
[44:09] Speaker 2: dialect that we see. So it makes it really difficult
[44:14] Speaker 2: to translate. I can't translate it because I don't speak
[44:18] Speaker 2: I don't speak Spanish or Hebrew other than a couple
[44:22] Speaker 2: of words but you know, where do you find those experts?
[44:25] Speaker 2: Aren't many people that can help us with that, But
[44:28] Speaker 2: we do have a couple of academics that we're going
[44:31] Speaker 2: to reach out to and we'll see what we find out.
[44:34] Speaker 1: Very cool. I'll be very interested in seeing what comes
[44:37] Speaker 1: out of that.
[44:38] Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, for the.
[44:39] Speaker 1: Last half of the show, very excited to talk about this.
[44:43] Speaker 1: You have been contacted from someone who claimed they were
[44:47] Speaker 1: in the Department of Defense, and he.
[44:50] Speaker 2: Didn't claim well, he claimed he was. And I am
[44:53] Speaker 2: now convinced that he is.
[44:55] Speaker 1: Okay, fair enough, and he's given you some let's say,
[44:59] Speaker 1: intriguing in from Yeah, it was for us to say.
[45:02] Speaker 2: That, well, yeah, no, it's yeah, this this this came
[45:09] Speaker 2: from left field when he contacted me. But you know,
[45:15] Speaker 2: I'm also I'm also kind of kind of proud of
[45:18] Speaker 2: the fact that the reason, one of the reasons he
[45:20] Speaker 2: contacted me is he felt that I was a credible person,
[45:23] Speaker 2: that I I was somebody who stood behind what I said.
[45:29] Speaker 2: And and I do stand behind what I say. If
[45:33] Speaker 2: I believe that I have got the evidence to back
[45:36] Speaker 2: up what I say, and and if I don't know,
[45:40] Speaker 2: I'll say so. And if I think it's a hoax,
[45:42] Speaker 2: I will. I've done that many times, you know, not
[45:44] Speaker 2: everything I see is real, and quite frankly, you know,
[45:49] Speaker 2: if you had asked me five or six years ago
[45:52] Speaker 2: about extraterrestrials and I would have said, thanks, but no thanks.
[45:57] Speaker 2: It really isn't my cup of tea, and it is
[45:59] Speaker 2: a little bit outside of the realm of my normal
[46:03] Speaker 2: you know, subject matter that I investigate. However, having said that,
[46:08] Speaker 2: the process of investigation, regardless if you're looking at a rumstone,
[46:13] Speaker 2: you're looking at a murder case, you're looking at a
[46:15] Speaker 2: piece of concrete, or you're investigating extraterrestrials, the process of
[46:20] Speaker 2: investigation is the same. It doesn't really matter. So I
[46:24] Speaker 2: understand the process of investigation. It's it's all I've done
[46:28] Speaker 2: since I graduated from college is forensic investigations. So so
[46:34] Speaker 2: I need to see some facts, I need to see
[46:36] Speaker 2: some evidence, and I have seen some of that evidence.
[46:41] Speaker 2: And really one of the main reasons why the government
[46:46] Speaker 2: is taking a different approach is because this this you know,
[46:53] Speaker 2: this tight secrecy for the sake of saving you know,
[46:58] Speaker 2: you know, humans from panicking and running in the streets,
[47:02] Speaker 2: because we're all going to be killed. Look if they
[47:04] Speaker 2: if these people wanted to kill us, if that was
[47:08] Speaker 2: their mission, we'd be gone. So clearly that's not what
[47:12] Speaker 2: their mission is, and it's not you know, they consider
[47:16] Speaker 2: us part of the interstellar community, right, but we're low
[47:21] Speaker 2: on the evolutionary chain. We are not that well emotional intelligence,
[47:30] Speaker 2: We're just not there. I mean, I'm sorry to say.
[47:32] Speaker 2: Is as wonderful as we think we are as a species,
[47:36] Speaker 2: we got a long way to go. The evidence is
[47:40] Speaker 2: not just here in our country right now, but racism, misogyny,
[47:50] Speaker 2: you know, greed power, the oil car tells this is
[47:55] Speaker 2: not the way we should be doing business on this planet.
[48:01] Speaker 2: Every one of us. You know, we we have red blood, right,
[48:04] Speaker 2: we're all Homo sapiens. And they're disappointed in us, quite frankly,
[48:11] Speaker 2: and we have some work to do. We're destroying our planet.
[48:15] Speaker 2: I mean, let's just be honest. We have too many people.
[48:21] Speaker 2: Nobody wants to talk about that problem, but all the
[48:23] Speaker 2: other problems that we have are a function of too
[48:25] Speaker 2: many people. And you know, correcting the problem isn't about
[48:29] Speaker 2: killing people. It's about getting things under control and being
[48:34] Speaker 2: responsible stewards of this planet. And this, all you know,
[48:39] Speaker 2: is part of.
[48:42] Speaker 3: This.
[48:43] Speaker 2: This question because they live here too, and you know,
[48:50] Speaker 2: I mean I, you know I. The other thing that
[48:56] Speaker 2: I that I'm aware of is that you know, they
[49:02] Speaker 2: we all have the ability to intellectually in our brains
[49:07] Speaker 2: communicate with these people telepathically. That's how they operate their ships,
[49:15] Speaker 2: That's how they communicate. And we can do it too.
[49:20] Speaker 2: We have to want to do it, and you know,
[49:23] Speaker 2: we want to. We what we have to do as
[49:26] Speaker 2: a species is to realize that we need to clean
[49:29] Speaker 2: up our act first and foremost. We need to realize
[49:33] Speaker 2: that it's not just us on this planet. It's there's
[49:36] Speaker 2: a whole uh you know, solar system out there, a
[49:40] Speaker 2: whole galaxy, and we're just one part of it. And uh,
[49:47] Speaker 2: we can do better. And so that's that's kind of
[49:49] Speaker 2: the basic message. And if we don't, we're going to
[49:54] Speaker 2: have more problems. And if we do, I think the
[49:58] Speaker 2: future is really bright. And I'll tell you what I
[50:03] Speaker 2: You know, it's not very often that you get an
[50:05] Speaker 2: opportunity to be to be part of something that's bigger
[50:09] Speaker 2: than yourself, right, And you know, I've been very fortunate
[50:13] Speaker 2: to be involved in things like the Roomstone and these
[50:17] Speaker 2: other out of place artifacts and to have a TV show,
[50:21] Speaker 2: you know, for as long as we did to to
[50:24] Speaker 2: help get what I consider to be the truth out
[50:26] Speaker 2: there right, And you know, I take a lot of
[50:29] Speaker 2: pride and and but it's a big responsibility and now
[50:32] Speaker 2: to be tapped to be involved in this disclosure project,
[50:38] Speaker 2: it's a big honor and and I take it very seriously. Now,
[50:41] Speaker 2: at the same time, I got to make sure that
[50:44] Speaker 2: things are what they purport to be. And if I'm
[50:49] Speaker 2: compelled and convinced and I conclude that this is what
[50:52] Speaker 2: it is, then I'll be more than happy to be
[50:56] Speaker 2: a spokesperson if that's what they want. And I can
[50:59] Speaker 2: tell so far I am compelled. What I've seen so
[51:04] Speaker 2: far has convinced me. And and I think if people
[51:08] Speaker 2: were honest with themselves, uh, they know that what I've
[51:12] Speaker 2: said is true, that we do need to get our
[51:15] Speaker 2: act together, not just as Americans, but as humans on
[51:20] Speaker 2: this planet.
[51:21] Speaker 1: Now, I'm assuming he kind of chose you because of
[51:24] Speaker 1: who you are, your stature, you know, your integrity, and
[51:30] Speaker 1: your you know, I guess, credibility, and to come out
[51:34] Speaker 1: with some of this information. Now, I guess I'm assuming
[51:38] Speaker 1: you did your own vetting of this person. Yourself.
[51:41] Speaker 3: Right.
[51:42] Speaker 2: Well, he spent three days in my house. We drank
[51:46] Speaker 2: bourbon late into the night, and uh, you know, he
[51:49] Speaker 2: showed me as credentials and we we had some pretty heavy, heavy,
[51:54] Speaker 2: heavy talks. And and I'll tell you what, he's a
[51:57] Speaker 2: good dude. You'd like him. He's younger than me, and
[52:02] Speaker 2: he was chosen to be part of this project. And
[52:07] Speaker 2: you know, one of the things that he told me
[52:09] Speaker 2: was really prophetic and and and that was, you know,
[52:16] Speaker 2: the government has only been made a decision in the
[52:19] Speaker 2: last three years to be open about this et question.
[52:25] Speaker 2: And if anybody's paying attention, you're seeing more and more
[52:29] Speaker 2: and more information coming out right from the government, from
[52:32] Speaker 2: the military. And one of the things that he said was,
[52:38] Speaker 2: you know, for over eighty years, they have had a
[52:42] Speaker 2: policy of nobody, you know, nobody says a word. Anybody
[52:47] Speaker 2: that leaks you could potentially be killed, deny things that
[52:52] Speaker 2: happened to people, you know, ruin their reputations, to preserve
[52:56] Speaker 2: you know, the secrecy for you know, for our own good, right.
[53:00] Speaker 2: I mean, all that did was to sow doubt and
[53:03] Speaker 2: distrust within these branches of our government, right. And in
[53:09] Speaker 2: the last three years since they have come out and said,
[53:14] Speaker 2: you know what, they're real, they're here, We're being honest
[53:20] Speaker 2: with you. It has completely changed the vast majority of
[53:25] Speaker 2: people's opinion about these agencies in a positive way. And
[53:29] Speaker 2: I stopped and I thought about that, and I go,
[53:32] Speaker 2: you know what, he's right. And so, you know, the
[53:35] Speaker 2: one thing I'll say is, you know, when you get
[53:37] Speaker 2: bad news about something or something that's scary or depressing,
[53:42] Speaker 2: you know, you're really devastated at the moment. But what
[53:45] Speaker 2: do we do as humans? You know, eventually you stop crying,
[53:49] Speaker 2: You dust yourself off, and you keep going. That's just
[53:52] Speaker 2: how we are. That's what you have to do. And sure,
[53:55] Speaker 2: some people are going to be shocked. Some people are
[53:57] Speaker 2: going to go, well, that can't be But event actually
[54:00] Speaker 2: they still have to go to their jobs. They got
[54:02] Speaker 2: to take care of their kids, they got to you know,
[54:04] Speaker 2: you got to get on with life. And that will
[54:07] Speaker 2: happen here too. People are going to be curious, They're
[54:10] Speaker 2: going to want to know more things, and that will come.
[54:14] Speaker 2: But more than anything, people not only have to recognize
[54:18] Speaker 2: that they're here, but they also have to recognize the
[54:22] Speaker 2: issues that we have that are really more important than
[54:26] Speaker 2: the fact that there's ets here and out there. Right,
[54:30] Speaker 2: we got a serious problem in front of us, and
[54:32] Speaker 2: that's that's taking care of our home. We don't have
[54:34] Speaker 2: anywhere else to go, right, they do, We don't. So
[54:42] Speaker 2: I don't know how anybody can argue with that logic.
[54:44] Speaker 2: It makes sense, Yeah, it does.
[54:46] Speaker 1: And that's basically you think while they're having the slow
[54:49] Speaker 1: roll out through the mainstream media, through some military sources,
[54:53] Speaker 1: that yes, these things do exist, and they're just kind
[54:56] Speaker 1: of trying to slowly prepare us for an eventual future
[55:00] Speaker 1: where we'll be having regular contact with these beings if
[55:04] Speaker 1: we can get our shit together.
[55:05] Speaker 2: Basically, well one hundred percent. My understanding is is that
[55:11] Speaker 2: we already have contact. We've had contact with them, we're
[55:16] Speaker 2: working with them. Our government has treaties already. I mean
[55:20] Speaker 2: the world has treaties, not just us. The other governments
[55:25] Speaker 2: are aware of this too. Recently in Israel, retired Israeli,
[55:29] Speaker 2: the story about Officer came out, and he was a
[55:34] Speaker 2: little more dire in his warning. He said, we're not ready.
[55:39] Speaker 2: You know, we're in trouble. We are horribly off track,
[55:43] Speaker 2: and they are disappointed. That's basically the same message I got.
[55:47] Speaker 2: But but this this person we call holding. You know,
[55:56] Speaker 2: he's also very passionate about this. You know, he's not
[55:58] Speaker 2: just a guy in a black suit and you know
[56:01] Speaker 2: telling me here's the deal. You know, he's he's you know,
[56:04] Speaker 2: he's got his own challenges in life, and you know,
[56:07] Speaker 2: he said, this is a really important project. And he says,
[56:10] Speaker 2: there are days I get discouraged that I don't think
[56:13] Speaker 2: that this is you know, we're going to be able
[56:15] Speaker 2: to pull this off. And you know, he was very
[56:19] Speaker 2: just very forthcoming, and so I told him, I said,
[56:25] Speaker 2: you know what, dude, I said, I'm optimistic. I've seen,
[56:29] Speaker 2: you know a lot of the good that that that
[56:33] Speaker 2: people can be when we when we try. And I said,
[56:38] Speaker 2: you know, we got to try, and so I'm in.
[56:42] Speaker 2: So I told him, so I'm in.
[56:45] Speaker 1: Yeah, man, we definitely live in fascinating times right now,
[56:49] Speaker 1: and I really, I really hope that us humans can
[56:52] Speaker 1: can get our shit together so where we can get
[56:54] Speaker 1: to that point because you know, I recently had my
[56:57] Speaker 1: very first what you would call a contact experience.
[57:01] Speaker 2: Really.
[57:01] Speaker 1: Oh yes, I've been extremely skeptical doing this show the
[57:04] Speaker 1: whole time until I had my own experience, which kind
[57:06] Speaker 1: of can things for me but yeah, I got the
[57:11] Speaker 1: same message that we really need to get our shit
[57:14] Speaker 1: together before you can meet their their presence known well.
[57:18] Speaker 2: And you know, and I had I had an experience too.
[57:22] Speaker 1: I I.
[57:24] Speaker 2: Encountered a person that I thought was just a person
[57:30] Speaker 2: and after one of the most promount profound moments in
[57:35] Speaker 2: my life with regard to my research at the Newport Tower.
[57:41] Speaker 2: I mean, I'm talking about a defining moment in my life.
[57:44] Speaker 2: This this person was there and the only person that
[57:47] Speaker 2: was there for almost an hour, and that never happens
[57:50] Speaker 2: at the tower. It just never happens. And she disappeared,
[57:57] Speaker 2: and I'm like, hell, and you know it, really it's
[58:04] Speaker 2: stuck in my craw for a long time because nobody
[58:07] Speaker 2: could have done that. And her dog too, she had
[58:09] Speaker 2: a dog with her, and they both just vanished.
[58:14] Speaker 3: You know.
[58:15] Speaker 2: Holden says, maybe it was one of them, and he
[58:19] Speaker 2: said it in a way, it was one of them,
[58:23] Speaker 2: because I described her and I told him exactly what happened,
[58:26] Speaker 2: and he kind of chuckled.
[58:27] Speaker 1: And Yeah, from everything I've heard from so many different
[58:35] Speaker 1: independent resources, authors, researchers, whistleblowers that they walk amongst us
[58:40] Speaker 1: and they look like us, and you could you wouldn't
[58:42] Speaker 1: be able to tell if if that's right one of them.
[58:45] Speaker 2: Yep, that's right. And you know what I what I
[58:48] Speaker 2: was told is that, you know, the the aliens that
[58:51] Speaker 2: everybody thinks of with the big heads and the almond
[58:54] Speaker 2: shaped eyes and the little noses, those are biological drones.
[58:58] Speaker 2: Those are not the aliens. Yes, so yeah, yeah, they
[59:02] Speaker 2: walk among us. And I'll tell you what. This woman
[59:05] Speaker 2: was gorgeous. I mean, I remember her being beautiful, and
[59:10] Speaker 2: you know, I was on the inside of the tower.
[59:12] Speaker 2: She was on the outside. We were literally two feet
[59:14] Speaker 2: away from each other, right, And she was there the
[59:17] Speaker 2: whole time when this illumination event happened, which for me
[59:23] Speaker 2: was a moment of validation of all the research I
[59:26] Speaker 2: had done, not just on the roomstone, but the templars
[59:28] Speaker 2: and the tower of certainly and many other parts to
[59:31] Speaker 2: this story. And I knew at that moment I was
[59:35] Speaker 2: on the right track. I mean, it just it was
[59:38] Speaker 2: just it was amazing, and she was there for it.
[59:42] Speaker 2: I remember when I got like the money shot picture
[59:45] Speaker 2: of the illumination. You know, she said to me, you
[59:50] Speaker 2: know I work in public relations. Would you like me
[59:53] Speaker 2: to get a picture of you with that in the background,
[59:55] Speaker 2: and I said, oh, that's a great idea. And I
[59:57] Speaker 2: pulled out a backup camera I had on my jacket
[1:00:00] Speaker 2: and I gave it to her and she snapped this picture,
[1:00:02] Speaker 2: and she gave me the camera back, and I said thanks.
[1:00:05] Speaker 2: And I had been taking pictures every minute or so
[1:00:09] Speaker 2: watching this light box move towards the egg, and I
[1:00:11] Speaker 2: wanted to get pictures going off, so I took the camera.
[1:00:14] Speaker 2: I said thanks, you know, and I'd been doing it
[1:00:16] Speaker 2: in front of her. I didn't even say anything. I
[1:00:18] Speaker 2: turned took a picture and I turned back, and she's gone.
[1:00:22] Speaker 2: I mean two seconds looked in that park, and there's
[1:00:28] Speaker 2: not a lot in that park. She couldn't have just
[1:00:31] Speaker 2: run off. And I remember when I turned around, my
[1:00:34] Speaker 2: first thought was, well, that was rude. I'll never forget
[1:00:37] Speaker 2: a long you know. Then all of a sudden, I
[1:00:40] Speaker 2: just the cold chill went down my back, and I'm like,
[1:00:45] Speaker 2: what just happened? You know. The funny part is, you
[1:00:48] Speaker 2: know I told the story. I didn't tell the story
[1:00:51] Speaker 2: for a long time because I didn't know what to say.
[1:00:54] Speaker 2: I'm like, how do I explain it right? And I
[1:00:59] Speaker 2: remember somebody asked me, They said, well, did you ever
[1:01:03] Speaker 2: develop those pictures, I said, whoa, yeah I did. I
[1:01:10] Speaker 2: didn't develop, and they're digital. But check this out. M
[1:01:17] Speaker 2: oh shoot, of course when I needed I can't find it.
[1:01:23] Speaker 2: But on the back of my hook Decks book, the
[1:01:27] Speaker 2: author's picture is that picture, but there's no photo credit
[1:01:34] Speaker 2: because I don't know who to credit. Wow it is.
[1:01:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, very interesting, very very interesting. Scott so much man,
[1:01:44] Speaker 1: that was fascinating stuff.
[1:01:48] Speaker 2: I get a million. I got a million of them, Chris.
[1:01:50] Speaker 2: Let me tell you.
[1:01:51] Speaker 1: That's why you're gonna have to have you have back
[1:01:53] Speaker 1: on sometime soon. We got so much more we could
[1:01:56] Speaker 1: have talked about before you head out, though. Uh for
[1:01:59] Speaker 1: those that are interest do you have anything interesting upcoming?
[1:02:02] Speaker 1: And if they're interested in finding out more about your work,
[1:02:06] Speaker 1: where can they do so?
[1:02:07] Speaker 3: Sure?
[1:02:08] Speaker 2: Sure, Well do we have anything more interesting coming up?
[1:02:11] Speaker 1: Oh?
[1:02:11] Speaker 2: Hell yes, I mean my god, we still have all
[1:02:13] Speaker 2: kinds of stuff going with the Templar research. We've got
[1:02:18] Speaker 2: you know, the Texas Stones, there's we have some treasure
[1:02:22] Speaker 2: hunts we're going to be going on. We're looking at,
[1:02:26] Speaker 2: uh probably launching our own platform here in the near future.
[1:02:30] Speaker 2: We got all, I mean, we got so much great stuff.
[1:02:35] Speaker 2: That's coming uh in this vein that you know rewrites
[1:02:40] Speaker 2: the history of America. But you know, rewriting the history
[1:02:44] Speaker 2: isn't really right. It's it's it's getting it right is
[1:02:46] Speaker 2: what we're doing. It's it's the right story. But you know,
[1:02:49] Speaker 2: I've I've written a lot of books on this subject matter.
[1:02:52] Speaker 2: And if people want to read any of my books,
[1:02:55] Speaker 2: if you want to sign copy my book, just go
[1:02:57] Speaker 2: to www dot hook decks dot com. That's h O
[1:03:02] Speaker 2: K ed x dot com. I sign all books bought
[1:03:06] Speaker 2: off the website. You can go to my blog, which
[1:03:09] Speaker 2: is Scott Walter Answers. If you want to ask me
[1:03:11] Speaker 2: a question, I've got you know, every episode we ever
[1:03:15] Speaker 2: did of America on Earth I did a blog for.
[1:03:17] Speaker 2: I have a lot of other blogs that I've written,
[1:03:19] Speaker 2: and I respond to every inquiry. Unless it's really dumb,
[1:03:22] Speaker 2: I won't post it, but you got to try pretty
[1:03:26] Speaker 2: hard for me not to post it. And you know,
[1:03:30] Speaker 2: hopefully we'll be getting back out there on the lecture
[1:03:33] Speaker 2: circuit here before too long. I do give a lot
[1:03:36] Speaker 2: of lectures. I speak at a lot of Masonic events,
[1:03:39] Speaker 2: but you know, I always tell the brothers, look, there's
[1:03:42] Speaker 2: nothing that I'm going to be telling you that the
[1:03:45] Speaker 2: public can't hear, so I encourage them to open it
[1:03:48] Speaker 2: up to the public so people can come in and
[1:03:50] Speaker 2: see the lodges and meet the brothers, and if there's
[1:03:52] Speaker 2: guys that are interested. I think the world could use
[1:03:56] Speaker 2: more Masons, quite frankly, and certainly in government. I can
[1:04:01] Speaker 2: absolutely tell you for sure, if we had more Masons
[1:04:04] Speaker 2: in government, we would have a higher probability of people
[1:04:08] Speaker 2: making decisions in the interest of the greater good than
[1:04:12] Speaker 2: the personal good. There's too much of that going on
[1:04:14] Speaker 2: right now, and I think if we had more Masons,
[1:04:17] Speaker 2: admittedly bias, but I do think that that would probably
[1:04:20] Speaker 2: be better for us. Look, Mason's founded our nation and
[1:04:24] Speaker 2: people brag about it all the time, so there must
[1:04:27] Speaker 2: be something good about it, right right.
[1:04:29] Speaker 1: Well, Scott, thank you so much again for coming down tonight,
[1:04:32] Speaker 1: and I'd love to have you back on in the
[1:04:34] Speaker 1: future to I don't want to welcome Ian Wilson. He
[1:04:37] Speaker 1: has been recognized as a pioneer in the field of
[1:04:40] Speaker 1: lucid dreaming by some of the leading researchers on dream exploration.
[1:04:45] Speaker 1: He has freely contributed articles, books, papers to the dreaming
[1:04:48] Speaker 1: community since nineteen ninety five and has helped hundreds of
[1:04:52] Speaker 1: people become better dreamers. As an artist, software engineer, and
[1:04:56] Speaker 1: avid lucid dreamer spanning thirty three years, he has everything
[1:05:00] Speaker 1: to offer with regards to teaching his skill. Ian Welcome,
[1:05:04] Speaker 1: How are you doing tonight.
[1:05:05] Speaker 3: I'm doing wonderful.
[1:05:06] Speaker 1: How are you doing, Chris, I'm doing very good. Thank
[1:05:09] Speaker 1: you so much for coming on. I personally believe that
[1:05:12] Speaker 1: our dreams are very important and more significant to our
[1:05:17] Speaker 1: waking world than most people even realize. I'm very interested
[1:05:21] Speaker 1: in lucid dreaming or being able to even control your dreams.
[1:05:26] Speaker 1: But like many people, I have trouble even remembering my dreams.
[1:05:31] Speaker 1: But luckily we have folks like yourself here to help
[1:05:34] Speaker 1: us understand our dreams and even learn how to lucid
[1:05:37] Speaker 1: dream and create our own dream reality if you want
[1:05:40] Speaker 1: to call it first, I'd love to hear what got
[1:05:44] Speaker 1: you interested and started, you know, lucid dreaming and interested
[1:05:50] Speaker 1: in dreams in general.
[1:05:54] Speaker 3: Well, I looked out because when I was eight years old,
[1:05:56] Speaker 3: I watched a movie called Star Wars, and I think
[1:05:57] Speaker 3: we're familiar with that. That was some forty years ago,
[1:06:00] Speaker 3: and you know, as a little boy I always wanted
[1:06:03] Speaker 3: to be in the movies. I didn't want to just
[1:06:05] Speaker 3: watch it on a two D screen. But we didn't
[1:06:06] Speaker 3: have VR, we didn't have stuff that we have today.
[1:06:09] Speaker 3: So as a kid, you have imagination, right, But I
[1:06:12] Speaker 3: looked out because I went to bed one night after
[1:06:13] Speaker 3: watching the show and I closed my eyes. And when
[1:06:15] Speaker 3: we go to sleep, we shift from our waking state
[1:06:17] Speaker 3: and our focus just into the dream state. And as
[1:06:19] Speaker 3: that happens, we go through a state known as hypnagogia
[1:06:21] Speaker 3: or rem replay is what I call. And what happens
[1:06:23] Speaker 3: is we start to see things from the day kind
[1:06:25] Speaker 3: of emerge. As a dream emerges, it becomes visual and
[1:06:27] Speaker 3: eventually audible, and then it becomes the dream. Right. So
[1:06:29] Speaker 3: as a kid, I was seeing Star Wars kind of
[1:06:31] Speaker 3: playing in high fidelity graphics in my mind and I
[1:06:33] Speaker 3: was like, wow, this is like the movie. And the
[1:06:35] Speaker 3: next thing, I fall asleep and I have a dream
[1:06:36] Speaker 3: that's an interactive replay of Star Wars where I'm now
[1:06:39] Speaker 3: in this three D environment that dreams offer, and it
[1:06:42] Speaker 3: was interactive and it was like exactly what I wished for.
[1:06:44] Speaker 3: So I woke up and I was just like, I
[1:06:47] Speaker 3: didn't know any of it. Back back then, I just
[1:06:48] Speaker 3: knew that somehow I wishing and wanting to do that
[1:06:52] Speaker 3: and paying attention to whatever it was. So I started
[1:06:55] Speaker 3: exploring that just by watching cartoons and fun things, I'd
[1:06:57] Speaker 3: love to go to sleep and I would think about it,
[1:06:58] Speaker 3: and I started to see it become usual as I
[1:07:00] Speaker 3: was falling asleep and the next thing, I know would
[1:07:01] Speaker 3: have a dream about it. So when I was young,
[1:07:04] Speaker 3: from eight all the way up to about fifteen, I
[1:07:06] Speaker 3: was having basically dreams, not all of course, but they
[1:07:09] Speaker 3: were based on influences from our waking life. And it's
[1:07:11] Speaker 3: you know, we all know, like say people who if
[1:07:12] Speaker 3: you have a friend you want to watch a horror
[1:07:14] Speaker 3: movie and they'll say, what, No, I don't want to
[1:07:15] Speaker 3: watch it. It's going to give me nightmares. So we
[1:07:16] Speaker 3: know things from our waking life will come back and
[1:07:18] Speaker 3: replay in our dreams, so why not tap into that, right,
[1:07:21] Speaker 3: That's the first step of active dreaming. So I've kind
[1:07:23] Speaker 3: of been into active dreamings since I was eight, But
[1:07:25] Speaker 3: then I got into the lucid dreaming, thankfully by coming
[1:07:28] Speaker 3: across an omni magazine written by doctor Stephan Leberge, and
[1:07:30] Speaker 3: he's been around for a very long time, and he's
[1:07:32] Speaker 3: one of the pioneers in lucid dreaming. A lot of
[1:07:35] Speaker 3: the things that are out than the Internet are actually
[1:07:37] Speaker 3: derivative of his work. So he founded the Lucidity Institute,
[1:07:40] Speaker 3: and I got very lucky and an Omni magazine wrote
[1:07:42] Speaker 3: an article called power Trips Controlling your Dreams. I was
[1:07:44] Speaker 3: fifteen at the time. That was back in nineteen eighty seven,
[1:07:47] Speaker 3: and he talked about being self aware or conscious in
[1:07:49] Speaker 3: your dreams. So lucid dreaming is what we know that
[1:07:51] Speaker 3: to be. And yeah, I mean, like she's My kings
[1:07:53] Speaker 3: are pretty darn and amazing to begin with. So I thought,
[1:07:56] Speaker 3: I haven't done that yet, So how can I do that?
[1:07:58] Speaker 3: And he didn't give a lot of instruction, so but
[1:08:01] Speaker 3: I was so thrilled by the idea that it could
[1:08:03] Speaker 3: be done. It just happened. It happened naturally, And about
[1:08:07] Speaker 3: two days later I had my first lucid dream and
[1:08:09] Speaker 3: it was just like waking up, like being in a
[1:08:12] Speaker 3: totally interactive reality. Because now the fidelity of the dream,
[1:08:15] Speaker 3: the interactive nature of it was just like being awake.
[1:08:18] Speaker 3: So it was like amazing, And so what did I do?
[1:08:20] Speaker 3: I flew, you know, I had fun. So that woke
[1:08:23] Speaker 3: me up and I said, okay, I've never stop dreaming
[1:08:25] Speaker 3: this way again. That was like having a second life experience.
[1:08:27] Speaker 3: And so because I didn't have any books at the
[1:08:30] Speaker 3: time or anything like that, I had to really slug
[1:08:32] Speaker 3: it out of my own. But I noticed that things
[1:08:34] Speaker 3: I could do in my day was improving my dream content.
[1:08:37] Speaker 3: So I just went on and started doing a lot
[1:08:38] Speaker 3: of self expiration to improve my dream quality because there
[1:08:41] Speaker 3: was things that I call noise, like I couldn't read
[1:08:43] Speaker 3: in my dreams. Things sometimes wou'd be hallucinary, And so
[1:08:47] Speaker 3: I started working with awareness during the day while I
[1:08:49] Speaker 3: was at school and just kept cleaning it up, cleaning
[1:08:51] Speaker 3: up house until it got really good. So I've been
[1:08:54] Speaker 3: doing it almost every night for thirty three years, and
[1:08:56] Speaker 3: it's been a blast. It's a lot of time spent
[1:08:58] Speaker 3: in the dream time.
[1:09:00] Speaker 1: That sounds very cool. Now from your perspective, why to
[1:09:04] Speaker 1: redream and kind of define? You know, what it is
[1:09:08] Speaker 1: that we're doing when we're dreaming. Is it our brain
[1:09:12] Speaker 1: just processing our day are can we access actually access
[1:09:17] Speaker 1: realms outside of ourselves or is it a different type
[1:09:20] Speaker 1: of reality? What is the best way that you can
[1:09:23] Speaker 1: describe what we're doing when we're dreaming.
[1:09:26] Speaker 3: Sure, well, there's a big broad range of things that
[1:09:28] Speaker 3: happen with dreaming. Remember it's not exclusive to humans, because
[1:09:31] Speaker 3: every mammal with the brain dreams and some birds streams.
[1:09:33] Speaker 3: So dreaming is a part of information processing that takes
[1:09:36] Speaker 3: part if we look at it from a neuroscientific perspective,
[1:09:39] Speaker 3: it's part of our cognitive development. That's why a lot
[1:09:41] Speaker 3: of children are growing up dream a lot more than
[1:09:43] Speaker 3: when they become an adult, when their brain hardens, when
[1:09:45] Speaker 3: we see a massive decline and dream of callum, those
[1:09:47] Speaker 3: kind of things. And the reason for it because dreams
[1:09:49] Speaker 3: with a big part of it is memory replaced. So yes,
[1:09:52] Speaker 3: from our waking, like our mind has to consolidate experience
[1:09:55] Speaker 3: into long term memory, and our dreams present what if
[1:09:57] Speaker 3: scenarios for us to do things like problem solved, work
[1:10:00] Speaker 3: with creativity, and all these things are helping the mind
[1:10:02] Speaker 3: kind of map out and learn right, So it does
[1:10:05] Speaker 3: serve a role in long term memory consolidation. We call
[1:10:08] Speaker 3: that replay. We have episode of spatial and sensory replay.
[1:10:12] Speaker 3: But there's other things in the dream experience. When you
[1:10:14] Speaker 3: start getting into the semantic part, which can be very creative.
[1:10:17] Speaker 3: We know that not everything we're going to dream is
[1:10:18] Speaker 3: going to be drive from our waking life. Some of
[1:10:20] Speaker 3: that can be from our belief systems. So if we
[1:10:22] Speaker 3: have a certain way of believing about certain things. If
[1:10:25] Speaker 3: you think about the dream experience as just a cannabis,
[1:10:28] Speaker 3: you close your eyes, you got a blank cannabis and
[1:10:29] Speaker 3: what are you going to paint that with? That's going
[1:10:31] Speaker 3: to be your thoughts and your experiences from your waking life,
[1:10:33] Speaker 3: and also what describes you as a person in your personality,
[1:10:36] Speaker 3: so in that you can have a big broad range
[1:10:39] Speaker 3: of the dream experience. And so we know that people
[1:10:41] Speaker 3: bring in their religious practices, their spiritual practices or occult practices,
[1:10:45] Speaker 3: and that's all a very cultural human thing to do.
[1:10:47] Speaker 3: Dogs and cats don't do it, and whals don't do it.
[1:10:50] Speaker 3: But there is certainly information that we are parsing in
[1:10:52] Speaker 3: that state that can be quite interesting and self edifying.
[1:10:57] Speaker 3: You know that you can have epiphanies that otherwise mind
[1:11:00] Speaker 3: while you're awake, there's just too much noise. You're under
[1:11:02] Speaker 3: the pressure of anxiety and stress, and you're not having
[1:11:04] Speaker 3: that clarity, you know, and that's where things like problem
[1:11:06] Speaker 3: solving and insights can come in from yourself, so you know,
[1:11:09] Speaker 3: it's a very vast part of us. You know, they
[1:11:12] Speaker 3: call it the inner cosmos. Ouranos are always exploring their
[1:11:15] Speaker 3: inner cosmos. And I definitely would say it's like having
[1:11:18] Speaker 3: a second reality to Parson experience that can be as real,
[1:11:22] Speaker 3: if not even more real than your waking life, depending
[1:11:24] Speaker 3: on how good you are at it.
[1:11:30] Speaker 1: Sorry I was muted there. Do you believe that we
[1:11:33] Speaker 1: actually have this collective type of consciousness and that we
[1:11:39] Speaker 1: can actually interact with that in our dream states?
[1:11:42] Speaker 3: Yeah, And that kind of drives itself from Carl Jung's work, right,
[1:11:45] Speaker 3: So when Karl was working with his patients, he was
[1:11:48] Speaker 3: noticing that there were archetypes from people that would have
[1:11:51] Speaker 3: same dream patterns or themes, but thybe from different parts
[1:11:54] Speaker 3: of the world, which you couldn't explain because one of
[1:11:56] Speaker 3: the senses with dreaming is that it's subjective, So why
[1:12:00] Speaker 3: would they be having similar things and version of the
[1:12:02] Speaker 3: dream content. But you know, that again is an issue
[1:12:05] Speaker 3: of you know, some people will say yes and some
[1:12:07] Speaker 3: people will say no. But you know, for myself, yeah,
[1:12:11] Speaker 3: there's definitely something in that. You know that there's some
[1:12:14] Speaker 3: information that seems to be there that kind of connects
[1:12:18] Speaker 3: us to something else or some other I mean, there's
[1:12:20] Speaker 3: you know, I mean people can have deja vu linked
[1:12:22] Speaker 3: to dreams. For example, you know, you have a deja
[1:12:24] Speaker 3: vu and you have an experience that's completely brand new,
[1:12:27] Speaker 3: you've never been there before, and all of a sudden
[1:12:29] Speaker 3: you're wondering where did this come from? But you get
[1:12:31] Speaker 3: this amsic trigger and you kind of remember up a
[1:12:33] Speaker 3: bit and I dreamed this, or some people get more
[1:12:35] Speaker 3: into that. So there's that kind of link there. But
[1:12:37] Speaker 3: of course right now there's not a lot of you know,
[1:12:40] Speaker 3: people that would accept that. But you know, I've had
[1:12:42] Speaker 3: that experience and a lot of people that I've had
[1:12:44] Speaker 3: that experience, And that's an interesting part of that. Considering
[1:12:49] Speaker 3: everything that we dream is happening in the brain. We
[1:12:51] Speaker 3: see the research that is done on it, a lot
[1:12:54] Speaker 3: of it comes back down to the hippocampus. And I
[1:12:56] Speaker 3: know that's been some studies that look at the possibility
[1:12:59] Speaker 3: of you know, play cells and time cells and patterning
[1:13:02] Speaker 3: was done in mice that were showing that the mice
[1:13:04] Speaker 3: somehow seem to have a pattern that would form in
[1:13:06] Speaker 3: the hippo campus that would link to something that they
[1:13:08] Speaker 3: do later on in the day. So you know, there
[1:13:10] Speaker 3: is some potential scientific evidence that could link that further,
[1:13:13] Speaker 3: but it's pretty much a area that's gray for a
[1:13:15] Speaker 3: lot of academics and things like that. But it's something
[1:13:18] Speaker 3: that I think is interesting because you'll know if you
[1:13:21] Speaker 3: had it when you have a direct experience, you had it.
[1:13:25] Speaker 3: And there you go.
[1:13:26] Speaker 1: Right now, you mentioned deja vu and I've had a
[1:13:29] Speaker 1: lot of DejaVu experiences that seem somehow linked to my
[1:13:33] Speaker 1: dreams in some way. Could you talk a little bit
[1:13:36] Speaker 1: more about that and how it's linked to dream.
[1:13:40] Speaker 3: Well, that's a very you know, deep part of the
[1:13:42] Speaker 3: dreaming experience. But I mean when you have a DejaVu
[1:13:44] Speaker 3: link to a dream, it can come in a lot
[1:13:46] Speaker 3: of different formats. Like most people will have an amnesia
[1:13:50] Speaker 3: relationship with that because the vast majority people simply don't
[1:13:52] Speaker 3: engage their dreams. So we have three to five each
[1:13:54] Speaker 3: and it doesn't mean anyone knows how to. And the
[1:13:56] Speaker 3: other problem with dreaming is it's a trophyx So without
[1:13:58] Speaker 3: stimulation or development, if you don't remember your dreams or
[1:14:01] Speaker 3: make an effort, we actually develop neural pathways and neurons
[1:14:03] Speaker 3: that are processing that information, and if we don't, goes
[1:14:06] Speaker 3: into stunted development, so you'll stop remembering dreams of maybe
[1:14:09] Speaker 3: one a week or one a month or never again.
[1:14:12] Speaker 3: So of course most people are amnesia when it comes
[1:14:13] Speaker 3: to the dreaming practice. But when you start to have
[1:14:16] Speaker 3: more time there and more information to parts, that will
[1:14:18] Speaker 3: start to surface a little bit more. And you know,
[1:14:21] Speaker 3: it comes in various formats as well, from symbolic, you know,
[1:14:24] Speaker 3: where it can be characters in the dream but not
[1:14:28] Speaker 3: exactly the setting, but then you may have never met
[1:14:30] Speaker 3: that character and all of a sudden you go, wait
[1:14:31] Speaker 3: a second, that's that person from that symbolic dream. And
[1:14:33] Speaker 3: then it can also be literal where it's just like
[1:14:35] Speaker 3: this conversation right now, and it can be third person,
[1:14:39] Speaker 3: you know. So there's some interesting stuff that's there with
[1:14:41] Speaker 3: that particular thing as to why that is. I mean,
[1:14:45] Speaker 3: you know that's I guess it goes deeper down the
[1:14:47] Speaker 3: rabbit hole.
[1:14:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mentioned in my intro, and you talked
[1:14:51] Speaker 1: about just now how people don't remember their dreams. I
[1:14:55] Speaker 1: remember when I was a kid, I used to remember
[1:14:57] Speaker 1: my dreams all the time. It's just like like it
[1:15:00] Speaker 1: would be a lot easier. So what happened to us?
[1:15:03] Speaker 1: Why don't we remember dreams anymore?
[1:15:05] Speaker 3: Well, the thing is like any skill or any you know,
[1:15:08] Speaker 3: Like if you take a child and you don't give
[1:15:10] Speaker 3: a child language to learn as they're developing, We are
[1:15:13] Speaker 3: developing neural pathways as we grow up until about the
[1:15:15] Speaker 3: age of twenty five. And what happens is every single
[1:15:17] Speaker 3: route of neural pathways that are growing in the brain
[1:15:20] Speaker 3: reach peak capacity in the brain hardens. So if a
[1:15:23] Speaker 3: child hasn't been around language and instant being stimulated for language,
[1:15:27] Speaker 3: the network of neural pathways to facilitate language doesn't develop properties.
[1:15:31] Speaker 3: So if they get reintroduced after the brain hardens and
[1:15:33] Speaker 3: then starts to learn language, they'll never learn it fluently again.
[1:15:36] Speaker 3: So dreams being a developmenttal skill, you know, because we
[1:15:39] Speaker 3: develop neurological before that. We know that when we do
[1:15:41] Speaker 3: FRI studies on things like memory, which is in the
[1:15:43] Speaker 3: medial prefrontal cortex, we'll see people that have dream call
[1:15:46] Speaker 3: have a higher density of neural pathways than the people
[1:15:48] Speaker 3: that don't. So right, there's a big indicator that we
[1:15:51] Speaker 3: see cognitive development in the brain that facilitates the dream experience.
[1:15:55] Speaker 3: And most people because you're not getting that stimulation. Most
[1:15:57] Speaker 3: people don't wake up and go, I'm going to remember
[1:15:58] Speaker 3: my dreams. They just wake up to go about their day.
[1:16:00] Speaker 3: In the dream memory isn't going to be there to
[1:16:03] Speaker 3: stimulate those real pathways, and it just doesn't develop. You know,
[1:16:05] Speaker 3: it goes into atrophy. So most people stunt their dream
[1:16:08] Speaker 3: development by not participating in the three to five. They
[1:16:10] Speaker 3: have not putting a priority or a value in the experience,
[1:16:13] Speaker 3: and for sure it's going to affect you in the
[1:16:15] Speaker 3: long run. By the time people reach sixty, their ability
[1:16:18] Speaker 3: recall a dream is reduced by ninety nine point ninety percent.
[1:16:22] Speaker 1: I definitely want to talk about how people can improve
[1:16:25] Speaker 1: that later in the show. But I'm wondering if you
[1:16:28] Speaker 1: could tell us what's the difference between lucid dreaming, meditating,
[1:16:34] Speaker 1: and an out of body experience. I know they're all
[1:16:37] Speaker 1: kind of connected in some way, and you've dealt with
[1:16:40] Speaker 1: all of these, so could you talk a little bit
[1:16:41] Speaker 1: about that.
[1:16:42] Speaker 3: Sure, I mean, meditation depends on what practice that you're doing.
[1:16:45] Speaker 3: With meditation, A lot of times people are trying to
[1:16:47] Speaker 3: get rid of rumeration, and that's just all your noisy
[1:16:49] Speaker 3: thoughts to bring your mind calm and still. And also
[1:16:52] Speaker 3: if you do meditative practice, you can actually start to
[1:16:55] Speaker 3: see things that you'd get in the dreaming practice, like
[1:16:57] Speaker 3: observing visual information and hypnagogic patterns. Those kind of things
[1:17:01] Speaker 3: can emerge through meditation because when the mind starts to
[1:17:04] Speaker 3: get that relaxed, it starts to focus on other bands
[1:17:06] Speaker 3: of information and you know us where brain does, it
[1:17:09] Speaker 3: parses data, so it'll start processing information that comes from
[1:17:12] Speaker 3: another focus state. Right, So the out of body again
[1:17:15] Speaker 3: is you know, like that's a big, a very big
[1:17:18] Speaker 3: feel too, because I have a completely different look at
[1:17:22] Speaker 3: what that is versus what we have here and most
[1:17:25] Speaker 3: of the information that we have here. But the out
[1:17:27] Speaker 3: of body experience and the dream state are both similar
[1:17:30] Speaker 3: in the fact that we are rendering information that yields
[1:17:34] Speaker 3: an experience. But as far as the you know, we
[1:17:37] Speaker 3: want to go really really deep, is that you know,
[1:17:40] Speaker 3: we're not actually going out of body in that context
[1:17:43] Speaker 3: that we think, but we're actually, if you get really
[1:17:47] Speaker 3: deep into what you are, we're projecting our awareness or
[1:17:50] Speaker 3: interfacing our awareness into the body. And now we're just
[1:17:52] Speaker 3: kind of stepping back from that focal focus point. So
[1:17:55] Speaker 3: you know, it's the out of body is really kind
[1:17:58] Speaker 3: of an interesting inversion that. So when I look at
[1:18:01] Speaker 3: the other body experience, I mean, I've done it quite
[1:18:03] Speaker 3: a bit when I was younger, and I got to
[1:18:04] Speaker 3: the point where I realized I was actually projecting my
[1:18:06] Speaker 3: awareness from basically a conscious singularity or non locality into
[1:18:10] Speaker 3: the information that described my body. So the body was
[1:18:12] Speaker 3: just an interface.
[1:18:14] Speaker 1: So that's very interesting and it makes me think more
[1:18:17] Speaker 1: and more of the simulation theory. How we can you know,
[1:18:22] Speaker 1: access different information just from our conscious states, and that
[1:18:28] Speaker 1: you know, life is or our whole reality is in
[1:18:32] Speaker 1: a way some sort of simulated reality. What are your
[1:18:35] Speaker 1: your thoughts on that?
[1:18:37] Speaker 3: Yeah, so when we get into simulation theory, what we
[1:18:39] Speaker 3: do know one thing about reality is that it emerges
[1:18:43] Speaker 3: from information processing the body. So we observe sensory data
[1:18:47] Speaker 3: from the objective world, and our mind processes that information
[1:18:50] Speaker 3: that creates an interface to reality. Right, So everyone experiences
[1:18:53] Speaker 3: a subjective paradox. So even though there's objective reality, everyone
[1:18:57] Speaker 3: even you know, like it's just obvious, I mean, Cat's dogs, ease,
[1:19:00] Speaker 3: will all perceive reality, the same reality, but differently through
[1:19:03] Speaker 3: this vehicle of perception. Right. So you know, we all
[1:19:07] Speaker 3: fundamentally have evolved with information, you know, because without information
[1:19:11] Speaker 3: we diaclose your eyes not getting visual information. While try
[1:19:14] Speaker 3: navigating through life with that suddenly having that happen, it'll
[1:19:16] Speaker 3: be very difficult. So we rely on information and the
[1:19:19] Speaker 3: processing of information to exist. I mean, even aniba is
[1:19:23] Speaker 3: processing information, albeit not the same as we do, but
[1:19:26] Speaker 3: enough so it can sense changes in temperature and find food.
[1:19:31] Speaker 3: So it also produces information that's very fundamental to life.
[1:19:34] Speaker 3: So information processing and living systems is a very interesting
[1:19:38] Speaker 3: thing that happens in all life because without it, you know,
[1:19:41] Speaker 3: it wouldn't be able to adapt to its environment and
[1:19:44] Speaker 3: be able to survive. So, you know, is our reality information?
[1:19:48] Speaker 3: One way of looking at it is, yes, it is.
[1:19:49] Speaker 3: And we look at quantum mechanics and we get into
[1:19:51] Speaker 3: things like the double slit experiment where matter can be
[1:19:54] Speaker 3: either a wave function or probability distribution or when measured
[1:19:57] Speaker 3: it becomes a particle. Right, So perhaps the part of
[1:20:01] Speaker 3: the probability distribution that they're looking at is information that's
[1:20:04] Speaker 3: sort of like the data stream, right, that is then
[1:20:09] Speaker 3: parsed and rendered into a particle. When that information is
[1:20:12] Speaker 3: now being accessed. So that's sort of a tie in
[1:20:14] Speaker 3: there for the idea that reality is information. It's, you know,
[1:20:19] Speaker 3: something that I think is emerging on the world stage.
[1:20:21] Speaker 3: And you look at Elon Musk, he's kind of moved
[1:20:23] Speaker 3: down that rabbit hole, and I think even Joe Rogan's
[1:20:25] Speaker 3: taking that a little bit more interestingly serious. But regardless
[1:20:29] Speaker 3: of the fact if it's a virtual reality or a simulation,
[1:20:32] Speaker 3: we're a part of that. We're the observer in that,
[1:20:35] Speaker 3: and we're having an impact on that information every day
[1:20:37] Speaker 3: of whether we're conscious of it or not.
[1:20:40] Speaker 1: Do you think that improving on remembering your dreams and
[1:20:45] Speaker 1: kind of working with your dream state could improve your
[1:20:49] Speaker 1: waking state and understanding what's going on around your reality?
[1:20:53] Speaker 3: Yeah, well I noticed. So I do have some courses
[1:20:56] Speaker 3: that I've developed, and it's taken me a long time.
[1:20:58] Speaker 3: I started my first program back in ninety ninety eight,
[1:21:00] Speaker 3: and this current program that I have, I wrapped it
[1:21:03] Speaker 3: up into a little bit more fun for people, but
[1:21:05] Speaker 3: it does deal with improving things like stunted dream development
[1:21:09] Speaker 3: with memory, that's the first thing to go. So my
[1:21:11] Speaker 3: first course unit is strictly dealing with stimulating memory back
[1:21:15] Speaker 3: you know, a lot of dream practice should say well,
[1:21:17] Speaker 3: just write down on a journal and that's going to
[1:21:18] Speaker 3: kind of help. But in my practice, I noticed that
[1:21:21] Speaker 3: reviewing the dream with your eyes closed when you wake
[1:21:24] Speaker 3: up in the same manner that you start observing the
[1:21:26] Speaker 3: dream emerge. We call that, you know, I call it
[1:21:28] Speaker 3: the memory play or sensory replay conduct construction. That's going
[1:21:32] Speaker 3: to provide more stimulation rather than just getting up and
[1:21:34] Speaker 3: just trying to faintly remember. So that's one of the
[1:21:36] Speaker 3: things that we kind of work with, this memory stimulation
[1:21:39] Speaker 3: for dreaming, and it definitely works. And the students that
[1:21:42] Speaker 3: have had maybe one during a week suddenly start by
[1:21:43] Speaker 3: the end of the course noticing two to three, and
[1:21:45] Speaker 3: as you progress further, some are getting up to seven
[1:21:47] Speaker 3: dreams to night. So we work with stimulation because that's
[1:21:50] Speaker 3: what the brain needs. It's not being stimulated, it's not developing.
[1:21:53] Speaker 3: So the other thing is perception. So you go into
[1:21:56] Speaker 3: a dream, now you've got your memory starting to work,
[1:21:58] Speaker 3: and now you knows you can't taste, touch, your smell, Well, oh,
[1:22:01] Speaker 3: what's going on there? Right? Because that sensory replayed part
[1:22:04] Speaker 3: of the dream package should be five senses, it should
[1:22:06] Speaker 3: be taste, touch, smell, vision, and hearing. So same thing
[1:22:10] Speaker 3: we work with stimulation training during the day to provide
[1:22:13] Speaker 3: the information and the stimulus for the dream experience. Review
[1:22:15] Speaker 3: that during the falling asleep stage and then you know,
[1:22:19] Speaker 3: for example, I had a student. She was big into
[1:22:20] Speaker 3: a lot of the young and freudy and dreaming for information,
[1:22:23] Speaker 3: kind of movement that a lot of people got into.
[1:22:25] Speaker 3: And it's been very active with dreaming for thirty years,
[1:22:28] Speaker 3: but hadn't come across information on things like dream finality,
[1:22:31] Speaker 3: improven dream quality, with things like stimulation for her senses,
[1:22:34] Speaker 3: and she started training for because she never had touch, taste,
[1:22:36] Speaker 3: or smell, so for thirty years was audible visual dreaming.
[1:22:39] Speaker 3: And then for the first time she started getting tactile
[1:22:41] Speaker 3: feedback in her dreams, which she loved. And then next
[1:22:43] Speaker 3: thing you know, she about a week later had taste
[1:22:47] Speaker 3: was nice, and a week later smell. So it takes
[1:22:50] Speaker 3: a while to bring it back online. That's three weeks
[1:22:51] Speaker 3: of her training herself. I just provide the tool. I
[1:22:54] Speaker 3: consider my work like the gym for the mind. Either
[1:22:55] Speaker 3: you go to the gym and you see the workout
[1:22:57] Speaker 3: machines that start exercising, or you don't.
[1:23:00] Speaker 1: It's amazing that you can actually have the sense of touch, taste,
[1:23:03] Speaker 1: and smell. It's like a it's like a completely.
[1:23:07] Speaker 3: That you want to have. That that's our rich dream experience.
[1:23:09] Speaker 3: That's where it becomes the second life. And she's not
[1:23:11] Speaker 3: the only student. Like you can go to the course
[1:23:13] Speaker 3: and see the comments from people that have taken it,
[1:23:15] Speaker 3: that have had improved, but they also know during the day.
[1:23:18] Speaker 3: Because what we do know from studying dreaming is that
[1:23:22] Speaker 3: the brain repurposes itself for dreaming obviously, so your visual
[1:23:25] Speaker 3: aspect of the dream is going to happen in the
[1:23:28] Speaker 3: etypical world. It's not going to happen somewhere else in
[1:23:30] Speaker 3: the brain, right, So it's not it's free efficiency. So
[1:23:34] Speaker 3: brain reuses the same parts of the brain for our senses.
[1:23:37] Speaker 3: And we know this from brain injury studies and things
[1:23:38] Speaker 3: like that have done on dreams. People that have had
[1:23:40] Speaker 3: lesions and things in the sensory regions of the brain
[1:23:44] Speaker 3: where they no longer have it in their waking life,
[1:23:46] Speaker 3: it can go offline in their dream life and in fact,
[1:23:48] Speaker 3: some brain damage completely shut down the dreaming experience altogether.
[1:23:52] Speaker 3: So you know understanding that dreams are a neurological and
[1:23:55] Speaker 3: developmental thing is very important. It's overlooked a lot by
[1:23:57] Speaker 3: a lot of people that do so, you know, same
[1:24:02] Speaker 3: thing you know, when you go into that experience and
[1:24:04] Speaker 3: you start having memory, now you start getting sensory perception
[1:24:07] Speaker 3: wells and lass is awareness, right, And this is a
[1:24:09] Speaker 3: big thing with a lot of people, and they want
[1:24:11] Speaker 3: to have self awareness because right now we're self aware,
[1:24:13] Speaker 3: and what does that give us. We have a sense
[1:24:14] Speaker 3: of time, we know that we're here, and we can
[1:24:17] Speaker 3: have choice. If we don't have that in a dream,
[1:24:19] Speaker 3: we're at the wildness of the subconscious mind. We just
[1:24:21] Speaker 3: go with that consciousness dream, we won't know that we're dreaming.
[1:24:24] Speaker 3: It'll pure real and people get caught in that illusion.
[1:24:26] Speaker 3: So a lot of the old practice for dreaming is
[1:24:28] Speaker 3: reality checks to try to break out of that trance
[1:24:30] Speaker 3: like state that we naturally go into. But we're only
[1:24:33] Speaker 3: naturally going into it because we're not trained. That's say,
[1:24:35] Speaker 3: we haven't trained ourself to be self aware. So we
[1:24:37] Speaker 3: do the same thing with self awareness training. We do
[1:24:39] Speaker 3: it through stimulation, not through what I call inventive gimmicks.
[1:24:43] Speaker 3: You know, inventive gammicks is like putting a crystal under
[1:24:45] Speaker 3: your pillow, thinking that's going to help you have a
[1:24:47] Speaker 3: loocid dream, or dangling some treatments or maybe putting salt around.
[1:24:51] Speaker 3: We're getting into sort of a practice that isn't going
[1:24:52] Speaker 3: to stimulate the brain. That's not going to help that
[1:24:55] Speaker 3: deficiency or that atrophe that's there. So we address it
[1:24:58] Speaker 3: with cognitive training. During day we look at things like,
[1:25:00] Speaker 3: for example, the same student she had never read in
[1:25:02] Speaker 3: her dreams, was a problem encounter a long time ago.
[1:25:04] Speaker 3: She started working with stimulation training for reading, and now
[1:25:06] Speaker 3: she reads in her dreams. And she couldn't do that.
[1:25:08] Speaker 3: You could do it. She was amazed when it started
[1:25:09] Speaker 3: to emerge. So you can start working with your logical
[1:25:12] Speaker 3: faculties and your cognitive you know, because all happens in
[1:25:14] Speaker 3: the prefuneral cortex we see in the f R studies,
[1:25:16] Speaker 3: And yeah, you want to have as much of your
[1:25:18] Speaker 3: intellect engaged in that process a lot of people think
[1:25:21] Speaker 3: about shutting that intellect down, but I think it's very important.
[1:25:23] Speaker 3: You know, our intellect both here and both there, becomes
[1:25:26] Speaker 3: very vital because when you're there, a lot of people
[1:25:28] Speaker 3: have a loocent dream. What do you do now? Okay,
[1:25:29] Speaker 3: what was your first loosient dream. If you can't think
[1:25:32] Speaker 3: and you can't act on choice, and you can't bring
[1:25:34] Speaker 3: your intention forward, well you know, you're kind of still
[1:25:37] Speaker 3: at the mercy of the experience. So there's a lot
[1:25:40] Speaker 3: of skill involved in that.
[1:25:42] Speaker 1: Now, have you ever had a shared dream or is
[1:25:45] Speaker 1: that possible to actually, you know, inner someone else's dream
[1:25:50] Speaker 1: or share someone else's dream in that way.
[1:25:52] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's things like that I kind of
[1:25:54] Speaker 3: bubble up in my experiences with certain friends and family,
[1:25:57] Speaker 3: and I've been around other people at work where you know,
[1:26:00] Speaker 3: there was actually three people when I was working at
[1:26:02] Speaker 3: a particular place at a concession. It was at a
[1:26:05] Speaker 3: movie theater, and they were talking about a dream and
[1:26:08] Speaker 3: they were all sharing the same dream content. And what's
[1:26:10] Speaker 3: interesting about some dreams that they're so symbolic for them.
[1:26:12] Speaker 3: They're all sitting at this very large, exaggerated table, like
[1:26:16] Speaker 3: an outdoor picnic table, and I had all of these
[1:26:17] Speaker 3: inscriptions written on the top, and they're all describing it
[1:26:20] Speaker 3: all to each other and all very shocked that, hey,
[1:26:21] Speaker 3: we're all in the same places and stuff like that.
[1:26:23] Speaker 3: So that does surface as well. I mean, you get
[1:26:26] Speaker 3: into some of the people that have looked into that,
[1:26:29] Speaker 3: like Linda Lane mcgelli, and she wrote a book called
[1:26:31] Speaker 3: Mutual Dreaming. So that does surface in people's experiences, and
[1:26:35] Speaker 3: it is very interesting. It's surfaced in mine as well.
[1:26:38] Speaker 3: But that's a hard thing to you know, validate, because
[1:26:40] Speaker 3: we don't have a way of measuring internal dream information yet,
[1:26:44] Speaker 3: although they're working on that in Japan, where they are
[1:26:46] Speaker 3: starting to use ephrameri and artificial intelligence to start to
[1:26:50] Speaker 3: deconstruct how the brain is forming images that may actually
[1:26:53] Speaker 3: lead to externalizing dream content. I think that'll be an
[1:26:56] Speaker 3: amazing eye opener for a lot of people because now
[1:27:00] Speaker 3: what was subjective could be objective. Whether that's ethically right
[1:27:03] Speaker 3: or not. Trust me, they're work.
[1:27:04] Speaker 1: Or on it now. I've had guests on that have
[1:27:08] Speaker 1: claimed to during their dream states have interactions with other
[1:27:13] Speaker 1: intelligences or consciousness has Is this something you've ever experienced.
[1:27:19] Speaker 1: Have you ever interacted with something that you think is
[1:27:22] Speaker 1: definitely outside of yourself or a different type of intelligence?
[1:27:27] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that will come. I mean when you
[1:27:30] Speaker 3: look at a lot of things that we do in
[1:27:32] Speaker 3: our dreams, you'll find, you know that the characters that
[1:27:35] Speaker 3: will encounter as dream characters seem to act on their
[1:27:37] Speaker 3: own intelligence, like it's an interesting thing, so you can
[1:27:40] Speaker 3: engage in role play with them and they'll just be
[1:27:43] Speaker 3: like talking to you and me at the same time,
[1:27:45] Speaker 3: like they seem to have their own life, their own intelligence.
[1:27:47] Speaker 3: But to go deeper into that particular band, we start
[1:27:52] Speaker 3: getting a little bit out of the dreaming part of it. Yeah,
[1:27:55] Speaker 3: you get into you know, for example, people that encounter
[1:27:58] Speaker 3: the being of light, you know, that kind of thing
[1:28:00] Speaker 3: will come up quite often. You'll start getting into these
[1:28:03] Speaker 3: deeper layers and come across something that's very knowledgeable about them,
[1:28:07] Speaker 3: very knowledgeable about a lot of things. So you know,
[1:28:11] Speaker 3: there's that particular element in that experience, but it starts
[1:28:15] Speaker 3: getting into a lot of the deeper, deeper parts. And
[1:28:17] Speaker 3: of course I've encountered that, so you know, the being
[1:28:20] Speaker 3: of light thing has definitely been something that has come
[1:28:22] Speaker 3: across my table more than once.
[1:28:25] Speaker 1: Did you talk a little bit more about that. That's
[1:28:27] Speaker 1: fascinating because you know, I've had a meditative experience where
[1:28:30] Speaker 1: I've come into contact with something that seemed intelligent. So
[1:28:34] Speaker 1: what type of being of light have of you experienced?
[1:28:39] Speaker 3: Well, that's another deep part of the rabbit hole. But
[1:28:41] Speaker 3: so the being of light. It's very complicated because it's
[1:28:46] Speaker 3: actually an aspect of yourself. It's kind of like we
[1:28:49] Speaker 3: talk about, you know, if you look at what we're
[1:28:51] Speaker 3: doing here in the human experience, gathering all these experiences,
[1:28:54] Speaker 3: the intensity, the enduring nature, it has an evolutionary quality
[1:28:58] Speaker 3: that is taking us to this end game of our
[1:29:04] Speaker 3: evolutionary path where we go from. Well, I don't have to
[1:29:08] Speaker 3: reveal a lot of secrets on this one, so when
[1:29:11] Speaker 3: we start here, we're not necessarily that we're kind of
[1:29:13] Speaker 3: like very dimly lit, you know, fragments of something bigger,
[1:29:17] Speaker 3: and through this, going through what we're doing here, the pressure,
[1:29:21] Speaker 3: like I'll put it this way, cold doesn't become a
[1:29:24] Speaker 3: diamond without pressure, right, So we don't evolve if we
[1:29:27] Speaker 3: don't have a certain amount of pressure. And so that
[1:29:30] Speaker 3: being of light, quite often you'll find is just yourself
[1:29:33] Speaker 3: and a lot of people that go deep into that practice.
[1:29:35] Speaker 3: A lot of people will first because of cultural belief.
[1:29:37] Speaker 3: Here I think it's God and go ooh, I'm talking
[1:29:40] Speaker 3: to God because it's intelligent, and it'll play with you
[1:29:43] Speaker 3: in that regards until you're ready to find out that
[1:29:45] Speaker 3: it was actually just kind of like your higher.
[1:29:47] Speaker 1: Self Yeah, that's what I was just about to say,
[1:29:49] Speaker 1: what some people would call their higher sell.
[1:29:52] Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's the part of you that sits outside
[1:29:54] Speaker 3: of the system, you know, that is kind of projecting
[1:29:57] Speaker 3: its awareness into you.
[1:29:59] Speaker 1: You know, that is very very interesting, fascinating stuff. Now,
[1:30:03] Speaker 1: tell us about dreaming for gamers and you know how
[1:30:07] Speaker 1: this came about.
[1:30:09] Speaker 3: Well, you know, I mean, I go, I have two websites.
[1:30:12] Speaker 3: So dreaming for gamers is kind of like the mouth
[1:30:13] Speaker 3: of the rabbit hole for a lot of people. So
[1:30:15] Speaker 3: it's completely void of all the you know, the mysticism
[1:30:18] Speaker 3: or these kind of things, because a lot of people
[1:30:19] Speaker 3: just aren't ready for that kind of experience it because
[1:30:22] Speaker 3: they can barely have a dream. You know, a lot
[1:30:23] Speaker 3: of people suffer from stunted dream developments. So a big
[1:30:26] Speaker 3: part of my dreaming practice is just to have some fun,
[1:30:28] Speaker 3: blowsome steam and be artistic about it because I am
[1:30:30] Speaker 3: an artist, so I enjoy you know, just creating things.
[1:30:35] Speaker 3: You know, gret dreaming is a creative process. So you know,
[1:30:37] Speaker 3: we have a lot of experiences here that you know,
[1:30:39] Speaker 3: if you look at it as paint for your dreams,
[1:30:41] Speaker 3: you know, like what would you like to dream tonight?
[1:30:42] Speaker 3: How can you go about having an active dream? Well
[1:30:45] Speaker 3: as an artist, if you ever get into studying art, well,
[1:30:47] Speaker 3: you kind of sometimes needs source material or reference to
[1:30:49] Speaker 3: get started, you know. So that's the first thing that
[1:30:52] Speaker 3: I thought, you know, I'm going to revamp my entire
[1:30:54] Speaker 3: dreaming practice and make it completely based on scale alone.
[1:30:57] Speaker 3: Here's the canvas of your mind when you close your eyes.
[1:31:00] Speaker 3: How do you paint that canvas? So, you know, I
[1:31:02] Speaker 3: thought it would be fun when I was doing a
[1:31:05] Speaker 3: revamp of my course, to make it fun for people.
[1:31:08] Speaker 3: So I made it a effectively a dream art school.
[1:31:13] Speaker 3: And you know, I don't know if it's coming up
[1:31:16] Speaker 3: on the stream here because technology, but yeah, it's kind
[1:31:22] Speaker 3: of getting another overlay, but whatever, that's that's the way
[1:31:25] Speaker 3: it's going to work. That's the way it's going to work.
[1:31:26] Speaker 3: But so yeah, I mean, you don't want to just
[1:31:29] Speaker 3: go and have a passive dreamer vie at the mercy
[1:31:31] Speaker 3: of the weldness of your subconscious mind. You do want
[1:31:33] Speaker 3: to get in the driver's seat eventually if you're going
[1:31:35] Speaker 3: to engage it. So a big part of it is
[1:31:37] Speaker 3: learning how to bootstrap the dream when you close your
[1:31:39] Speaker 3: eyes at night, and we go through that naturally every
[1:31:42] Speaker 3: night anyways. But becoming involved or participating in your own dreams,
[1:31:45] Speaker 3: I mean, that's a real tough sell for people, is
[1:31:47] Speaker 3: you know, participating in your own dreams. You're having them.
[1:31:50] Speaker 3: But a lot of people because of culture and because
[1:31:52] Speaker 3: of the information, I haven't been taught. You know, I
[1:31:54] Speaker 3: had a self teach. That's majority of what I did
[1:31:56] Speaker 3: is self teaching. For it is well, let's take all
[1:32:01] Speaker 3: that information and all that experience condensed from thirty three
[1:32:04] Speaker 3: years and plus I've done a lot of research into
[1:32:06] Speaker 3: dream neuroscience and of course psychology, of course all the
[1:32:10] Speaker 3: different practices that are out there, and so I carefully
[1:32:13] Speaker 3: constructed a course that's going to help people actually stimulate
[1:32:16] Speaker 3: the brain and get results with dreaming. That could be fun,
[1:32:18] Speaker 3: you know, dreaming whatever you want, and it does work.
[1:32:21] Speaker 3: And we had twenty two people one through the very
[1:32:22] Speaker 3: first course and have had an interactive replay or incorporation
[1:32:26] Speaker 3: of their source material where they thought they couldn't and
[1:32:28] Speaker 3: then so you know, that's always kind of a nice
[1:32:30] Speaker 3: thing when you see results, right, So dreaming for gamers
[1:32:33] Speaker 3: is all basically a result orientated dream training system that
[1:32:37] Speaker 3: rehabilitates stunted development and people or helps with development if
[1:32:41] Speaker 3: they're before they become say twenty five, and it all
[1:32:43] Speaker 3: goes to ruin after that. So but there's nothing like
[1:32:47] Speaker 3: get out there.
[1:32:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really cool. Now you said, how many students
[1:32:51] Speaker 1: did you have right now?
[1:32:53] Speaker 3: Well, we've had about one hundred and ninety two people
[1:32:56] Speaker 3: start at the gate for the free Challenge ever freach
[1:33:00] Speaker 3: knowledge up there, and I've had four students that have
[1:33:03] Speaker 3: moved into the more advanced courses, you know, because I
[1:33:06] Speaker 3: was charging for the first time in twenty two years.
[1:33:08] Speaker 3: And the reason why is because I'm actually interacting with people.
[1:33:10] Speaker 3: I'm giving advice and stuff. So there's a lot of
[1:33:12] Speaker 3: time commitment to it. Plus it's like I say, twenty
[1:33:14] Speaker 3: two years of condensed research and dolargs that went into it.
[1:33:17] Speaker 3: But that price tag, I think is a you know,
[1:33:21] Speaker 3: everyone goes through the free course, that's like that I
[1:33:22] Speaker 3: don't want to pay for this, but you know, I
[1:33:24] Speaker 3: made it now the price of a video game for
[1:33:26] Speaker 3: all for all eight courses. So it's eighty nine ninety
[1:33:29] Speaker 3: nine for two months of dream training. And if you
[1:33:32] Speaker 3: kind of know this whole field, you'll find that's an
[1:33:34] Speaker 3: extraordinary cheap price for people to jump onto that practice.
[1:33:37] Speaker 3: But I'm not really in it for the money, but
[1:33:39] Speaker 3: I do have to. I've invested a lot of money
[1:33:41] Speaker 3: run like websites over those you know, hosting it for
[1:33:44] Speaker 3: twelve years with the other site of forty thousand dollars
[1:33:47] Speaker 3: between software and servers and all that kind of stuff,
[1:33:49] Speaker 3: So I've never really recouped the costs. So you know,
[1:33:52] Speaker 3: I decided, well, I don't get a free ride in life.
[1:33:54] Speaker 3: Everyone's in my pocket.
[1:33:56] Speaker 1: Right definitely. Now, I mean it's called dreaming for gamers,
[1:33:59] Speaker 1: but it's not just for video gamers. The I mean,
[1:34:02] Speaker 1: you can create any type of resolutey you want, right.
[1:34:05] Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's what they're finding. The reason why I
[1:34:07] Speaker 3: pick gaming because I'm kind of biased to it. I
[1:34:09] Speaker 3: started video games when they started becoming three D. I
[1:34:13] Speaker 3: just noticed naturally adapt to dream replay because we think
[1:34:17] Speaker 3: in a three dimensional way and three D games were there,
[1:34:19] Speaker 3: so I was noticing the texturing and the environments we're
[1:34:21] Speaker 3: good to. I do something called cognitive mapping, which is
[1:34:23] Speaker 3: something that I wrote about. Yeah, I don't know if
[1:34:27] Speaker 3: it will well, I guess we can. We can kind
[1:34:30] Speaker 3: of pull it up, so somewhat working, but yeah, I
[1:34:33] Speaker 3: can kind of get into so cognitive mapping is you're
[1:34:37] Speaker 3: doing it right now, you're just not really that aware
[1:34:39] Speaker 3: of it. We're not very meta or aware of our
[1:34:41] Speaker 3: senses and are you know that we're kind of floating
[1:34:43] Speaker 3: autopilot a lot when we're going through our experiences rather
[1:34:45] Speaker 3: than thinking, Okay, I'm going to really focus on this
[1:34:47] Speaker 3: experience for dreaming and for dream replay. So we get
[1:34:51] Speaker 3: into mapping out a lot of the stuff that we
[1:34:53] Speaker 3: do from the day to create a payload for the
[1:34:55] Speaker 3: dream replay process. So it can be a video game,
[1:34:57] Speaker 3: it can be a movie, it can be a TV show,
[1:35:00] Speaker 3: but it can also be a walk in the park
[1:35:01] Speaker 3: and be a past memory. It can be a book
[1:35:02] Speaker 3: or a novel. Wouldn't be the best source material if
[1:35:05] Speaker 3: it's not audible and visual at least, and that's what
[1:35:07] Speaker 3: the students are finding. If they start textual, they're not
[1:35:10] Speaker 3: getting the stimulation. So I want them to have something
[1:35:12] Speaker 3: that has a payload on it because when they close
[1:35:14] Speaker 3: their eyes and then we do it just before bed,
[1:35:16] Speaker 3: you know, you sort of close your eyes after reviewing
[1:35:18] Speaker 3: your source material, mapping it out with the stuff that
[1:35:21] Speaker 3: we talk about, and then you go into memory play
[1:35:23] Speaker 3: and start reviewing it what becomes visual, just like when
[1:35:25] Speaker 3: you're meditating and start having thoughts, and that starts to
[1:35:28] Speaker 3: kind of bootstrap the dream process. And we call that
[1:35:30] Speaker 3: sensory replay construction because it becomes visual, audible, even tactile
[1:35:35] Speaker 3: before it becomes the dream. And then the last step
[1:35:37] Speaker 3: is when your awareness can merge into the actual dream,
[1:35:39] Speaker 3: into whatever dream avatar that you're looking at or yourself.
[1:35:42] Speaker 3: You let the dream wrap around you. So we get
[1:35:45] Speaker 3: into bootstrapping the dream process that way. But it's developmental.
[1:35:48] Speaker 3: So a lot of people I'll see, they'll start and
[1:35:51] Speaker 3: they might only get a little bit of a visual
[1:35:53] Speaker 3: replay and then audible and then as they if they
[1:35:55] Speaker 3: continue to practice, they finish visual. Go oh wait, now
[1:35:57] Speaker 3: I'm starting to get audible replay in the SRC, and
[1:36:00] Speaker 3: you know, and then all of a sudden, no, I
[1:36:01] Speaker 3: can actually get some tactile feedback in the SRC because
[1:36:04] Speaker 3: it's linked to the dreaming mind. It's a way for
[1:36:05] Speaker 3: me to gauge actual feed with people that are you know,
[1:36:09] Speaker 3: haven't been developing. So it really reflects first in the
[1:36:12] Speaker 3: SRC and the next in the dream content. But I
[1:36:14] Speaker 3: provided stimulation, you see, so now they're actively stimulating those
[1:36:17] Speaker 3: regions of the brain wall, engaging the SRC, and then
[1:36:19] Speaker 3: they start finding out, wow, my dreams are getting better
[1:36:21] Speaker 3: and better right now.
[1:36:23] Speaker 1: For people that just want to learn how to basically
[1:36:28] Speaker 1: just start to remember their dreams again, what would be
[1:36:31] Speaker 1: like one of the first or few steps to that
[1:36:34] Speaker 1: process just to be able to remember your dream well again.
[1:36:38] Speaker 3: Like I said, it's a trophy skill. So like going
[1:36:40] Speaker 3: to the gym, you can go into the gym one
[1:36:41] Speaker 3: day and think you're going to get all these exceptional
[1:36:43] Speaker 3: results on a lot of people go for this big
[1:36:44] Speaker 3: payload when they take on, especially the dreaming practice, because
[1:36:47] Speaker 3: there's a lot of misleading information about you know, do
[1:36:50] Speaker 3: it in three easy steps or you know you can
[1:36:52] Speaker 3: do it in five seconds or all. This is still
[1:36:54] Speaker 3: bs because it's neurological, right, there's a lot of development
[1:36:57] Speaker 3: that has to take place, like in any skill, So
[1:37:00] Speaker 3: with memory, it's really an issue of setting it up.
[1:37:03] Speaker 3: So we do what's called a dream plan and a
[1:37:04] Speaker 3: dream routine and also having a dream workflow, you know,
[1:37:07] Speaker 3: so we break it down just like a professional artist.
[1:37:09] Speaker 3: You're going to go in and start working on what
[1:37:11] Speaker 3: your intention is, what you want to use as your
[1:37:13] Speaker 3: source material. I don't tell people what to use for
[1:37:15] Speaker 3: a source material, and they can have at it. Like,
[1:37:19] Speaker 3: some people have never played games before, and so they
[1:37:22] Speaker 3: end up picking stuff that was not, say, a violent
[1:37:24] Speaker 3: video game, but a very scenic exploration game in a
[1:37:27] Speaker 3: very beautiful oceanic world, for example, as one person picked,
[1:37:29] Speaker 3: I think it was called Into the Blue or something
[1:37:31] Speaker 3: like that. I haven't play the game myself, but it's
[1:37:32] Speaker 3: all you know. Now there's dolphins in whales and they're
[1:37:35] Speaker 3: having awesome dreams right now, you know, in these aquatic
[1:37:38] Speaker 3: adventures with all the things that they like, you know,
[1:37:41] Speaker 3: and making their dreams fun. She says, this is the
[1:37:43] Speaker 3: first time it's ever been fun like this is a
[1:37:44] Speaker 3: real fun way to go about it. So as far
[1:37:47] Speaker 3: as the source material goes, it can be anything. But
[1:37:50] Speaker 3: you know, you need that in the beginning if you
[1:37:52] Speaker 3: haven't really engaged this practice, because it's usually just a
[1:37:56] Speaker 3: blank screen you're looking at and you're hoping something's going
[1:37:59] Speaker 3: to happen. You know, sit there and just wait for
[1:38:00] Speaker 3: something to happen, and sometimes you need to bootstrap that
[1:38:03] Speaker 3: give it will kick in the butt. So having a
[1:38:06] Speaker 3: stimulated mind going into that, you'll find you get results quicker,
[1:38:09] Speaker 3: and I'm all about the results, So you know, that's
[1:38:11] Speaker 3: why I laid it out that way.
[1:38:13] Speaker 1: Now, I've had a guest on that was giving lucid
[1:38:16] Speaker 1: dreaming techniques and he mentioned something like during the day,
[1:38:20] Speaker 1: asking yourself if you're dreaming, and doing some type of
[1:38:24] Speaker 1: daytime test to MD.
[1:38:28] Speaker 3: That's right. So that's now at least incorporating some training
[1:38:30] Speaker 3: during the day, which is a little bit good because
[1:38:32] Speaker 3: I actually are working with your awareness during the day
[1:38:34] Speaker 3: and you're kind of setting an intention in the day.
[1:38:36] Speaker 3: But also for the quote unquote reality check, which is
[1:38:39] Speaker 3: you know, it's a training wheel for sure, because reality
[1:38:42] Speaker 3: check doesn't necessarily become necessary when you start having a
[1:38:46] Speaker 3: lot of stimulation where your prefrontal cortex starts to come
[1:38:48] Speaker 3: back online as well. Right, so you naturally now become aware. Man.
[1:38:52] Speaker 3: The good indication of that is when false winkening loops
[1:38:55] Speaker 3: start to kick in a lot, that awareness is starting
[1:38:58] Speaker 3: to engage in the dreaming process. But so for setting
[1:39:00] Speaker 3: up intentions and reality checks during the day, it's good
[1:39:04] Speaker 3: for that, But the problem is that you get kind
[1:39:07] Speaker 3: of caught in the reality check trap because the other thing,
[1:39:12] Speaker 3: like my students were kind of catching on quickly was like, well,
[1:39:14] Speaker 3: wait a second. You know, they couldn't understand why the
[1:39:17] Speaker 3: video game thing was the thing, and it was like, well,
[1:39:19] Speaker 3: when you're in a dream, it's super realistic. Like most people,
[1:39:22] Speaker 3: they think that's reality until they wake up. They wouldn't
[1:39:24] Speaker 3: question it because it's so real, right, that's the way
[1:39:26] Speaker 3: we dream. But when you're suddenly now seeing. For example,
[1:39:29] Speaker 3: at a student that was using Fall Guys, which is
[1:39:31] Speaker 3: this cartoon style game, and he wanted to test it
[1:39:33] Speaker 3: out because he's never drunking cartoon and he had an
[1:39:35] Speaker 3: incorporation where he's having a super real dream. He's at
[1:39:37] Speaker 3: the beach. It doesn't always dreaming, and all of a
[1:39:39] Speaker 3: sudden Fall Guy characters start running. Makes it very easy
[1:39:41] Speaker 3: to kind of go, a wait a second, this isn't reality.
[1:39:44] Speaker 3: There shouldn't be these characters there. So, you know, they
[1:39:46] Speaker 3: kind of caught on like, oh, I get it too.
[1:39:48] Speaker 3: Now you're making it so the dream state become very
[1:39:50] Speaker 3: easy to identify because it's not always presenting ultra realistic
[1:39:54] Speaker 3: transl like super real experiences. It's starting to gift toping
[1:39:57] Speaker 3: for your logical mind to go, wait a second, this
[1:39:59] Speaker 3: is definitely a dream because it's so obviously not you know,
[1:40:03] Speaker 3: from your waking life, and then we're used to it.
[1:40:05] Speaker 3: So but we get into a lot, I mean, it's
[1:40:07] Speaker 3: a very bad system. There's eight courses in that whole regiment,
[1:40:11] Speaker 3: and three courses are neurological, which deal with memory, awareness,
[1:40:14] Speaker 3: and perception. Then we get into psychology, nightmares, overcoming nightmares,
[1:40:19] Speaker 3: overcoming fear. We have a lot of what I call
[1:40:21] Speaker 3: negative psychological inhibitors that get in the way of their
[1:40:24] Speaker 3: dream practice. A lot of it's from our childhood, you know,
[1:40:26] Speaker 3: stuff with skeletons in the closet. So it deals with
[1:40:27] Speaker 3: the house cleaning. That's we all go through, the health cleaning.
[1:40:31] Speaker 1: I want to go through a couple of things that
[1:40:32] Speaker 1: you mentioned. You mentioned false awakenings. I remember having those
[1:40:36] Speaker 1: growing up as well, where I'd dream that I'd be awake,
[1:40:39] Speaker 1: I'd get up, I'd get something, do a whole bunch
[1:40:42] Speaker 1: of things, and then I wake up again and it
[1:40:44] Speaker 1: was just a dream. And this may have happened, you know,
[1:40:47] Speaker 1: two or three times. What is what's going on with that?
[1:40:50] Speaker 1: And and how is that an indicator that you're you know,
[1:40:53] Speaker 1: improving there?
[1:40:54] Speaker 3: Well, you know, well, if you latch onto that you'll
[1:40:56] Speaker 3: improve with it because you're now engaging in that stimulation
[1:40:59] Speaker 3: it's providing. But for a lot of people, the false
[1:41:01] Speaker 3: awakening loop does happen when activity in the pre funeral
[1:41:03] Speaker 3: core text kicks and that's where your sense of self
[1:41:05] Speaker 3: awareness is, you know, being processed, so you have that
[1:41:08] Speaker 3: sense of self awareness. Well, it's the same thing with
[1:41:09] Speaker 3: the dream state. If we look at FMRIAH research between
[1:41:12] Speaker 3: a lucid dreamer and a non lucid dreamer, there's a
[1:41:14] Speaker 3: way more activity in the brain. You know, there's activity
[1:41:17] Speaker 3: all across the mind where information is being utilized to
[1:41:20] Speaker 3: present the dream experience. It's processing data, right, So when
[1:41:23] Speaker 3: you start having false awakening loops, it's a good indicator
[1:41:26] Speaker 3: that aspects of your prefrontal cortex now is now engaging
[1:41:30] Speaker 3: with you in that and you know, so you are aware,
[1:41:33] Speaker 3: may not be fully aware because it's so clever in
[1:41:37] Speaker 3: how the realism's there, and but that's common when you
[1:41:41] Speaker 3: start getting into Like the other thing that I designed
[1:41:43] Speaker 3: in this course is I'm very aware of three key
[1:41:45] Speaker 3: things that a lot of the beginners don't quite understand
[1:41:47] Speaker 3: what they jump into. They want to go to the
[1:41:49] Speaker 3: very end you know, I want to have that lucid
[1:41:50] Speaker 3: dream right now, I've never had them before. Let's take
[1:41:52] Speaker 3: an advanced technique, right you know. For example, physical muscle relaxation,
[1:41:55] Speaker 3: which is great, is a great technique, focus on a
[1:41:58] Speaker 3: single point and off the body starts to fall asleep
[1:42:00] Speaker 3: while you're telling it to. But during that process, it's
[1:42:03] Speaker 3: going to release gabba and glycine, which block neural transmission
[1:42:07] Speaker 3: to your muscles, invoking sleepers paralysis. Right. So, a lot
[1:42:10] Speaker 3: of beginners, because they don't know there's other methodologies to
[1:42:13] Speaker 3: getting into that state without having to put your attention
[1:42:16] Speaker 3: on your body, We'll go through sleepers prolysis, and that
[1:42:18] Speaker 3: scares them because because you're new at it, very common
[1:42:22] Speaker 3: for fear to invoke with fear replace, So they get
[1:42:24] Speaker 3: the old Hag, they get shadow people, they get goblins.
[1:42:27] Speaker 3: Whatever their blue systems might throw at them will play
[1:42:29] Speaker 3: out in a sleeper paralysis for a beginner, quite often,
[1:42:32] Speaker 3: very calmon We see that in a lot of literature
[1:42:34] Speaker 3: throughout the years. And then false awakning loop is another
[1:42:36] Speaker 3: example of that. It's just you know, you fall in asleep,
[1:42:39] Speaker 3: but you've now managed to bring a certain amount of
[1:42:41] Speaker 3: your self awareness into the dream, but not enough where
[1:42:43] Speaker 3: you are familiar enough in the dream to recognize that
[1:42:46] Speaker 3: that's what it is. So you'll go through that ELM,
[1:42:48] Speaker 3: just doing my fresh and my teeth, going to school,
[1:42:50] Speaker 3: and all of a sudden you get halfway to school
[1:42:51] Speaker 3: and poop you wake up and go, oh, I was
[1:42:53] Speaker 3: just dreaming, and you repeat, so it's a false awakening
[1:42:56] Speaker 3: loop and then boop you wake up again. But when
[1:42:58] Speaker 3: you get into again the style of dream that I do,
[1:43:00] Speaker 3: hear your false awaken leeks can be based in your
[1:43:03] Speaker 3: source materials. So you are waking up in a source
[1:43:06] Speaker 3: material and you're like, wait a second, oh wait, but
[1:43:08] Speaker 3: in my source materials. So false awakening loop suddenly gets easily,
[1:43:12] Speaker 3: you know, assessed as being a dream because we're kind
[1:43:15] Speaker 3: of changing the mechanic there to break that translate state.
[1:43:19] Speaker 3: And the other thing is dreamlock. And it's not a
[1:43:21] Speaker 3: bad thing. That things aren't bad. Like I used to
[1:43:23] Speaker 3: use sleep paralysis induction a lot for being self aware
[1:43:26] Speaker 3: during sleep. I liked it because it got me results.
[1:43:29] Speaker 3: But you know, by that time I had enough experience
[1:43:32] Speaker 3: that there's no fear. There was no connection to fear
[1:43:34] Speaker 3: in the dream state at all. I realized dreams are inconsequential.
[1:43:37] Speaker 3: All the consequences were in waking life. Dreams you just
[1:43:40] Speaker 3: wake up from, so nothing to worry about there. But
[1:43:43] Speaker 3: so dreamlock is, for example, someone racing through the gate.
[1:43:46] Speaker 3: They want to have a lucid dream right away. They
[1:43:48] Speaker 3: go through whatever practice they've jumped into, some advanced technique,
[1:43:51] Speaker 3: the body falls asleep, the mind stays awaken, and the
[1:43:53] Speaker 3: body goes deep sleep, and they're stuck in a lucid dream.
[1:43:56] Speaker 3: But now they don't know what they're doing. They have
[1:43:57] Speaker 3: skeletons in the closet, they haven't done any house cleaning,
[1:43:59] Speaker 3: and know it might be a scary dream for them,
[1:44:02] Speaker 3: or they're stuck there for a long period of time.
[1:44:04] Speaker 3: They might be in there a lot longer than they
[1:44:05] Speaker 3: thought they would be. And so I try to do
[1:44:07] Speaker 3: stuff to break away from invoking fear for a beginner,
[1:44:10] Speaker 3: So we use SRC. And the reason why we're using
[1:44:13] Speaker 3: that method is because your attention now is on the
[1:44:15] Speaker 3: actual dream, not on the body, and it merges in
[1:44:18] Speaker 3: with the dream content that you're looking at. You get
[1:44:20] Speaker 3: into an active dream that you want, so you're less
[1:44:22] Speaker 3: likely to be afraid. So it's not fear invoking.
[1:44:25] Speaker 1: That aspect is fascinating to me, especially the sleep paralysis.
[1:44:29] Speaker 1: At one point in my life I had that happen.
[1:44:31] Speaker 1: I had the shadow figures that were appearing. Could you
[1:44:35] Speaker 1: talk a little bit about more about what that is
[1:44:38] Speaker 1: and you know how that's caused and getting over that.
[1:44:42] Speaker 3: We all go through that, I mean, because when we
[1:44:45] Speaker 3: become conscious in this state, you know, our subconscious mind
[1:44:50] Speaker 3: is replaying information based on our feelings, our beliefs and
[1:44:54] Speaker 3: things like that. So when I was going through superproalysis
[1:44:57] Speaker 3: in this practice, I started encountering a lot one of
[1:45:00] Speaker 3: the things that like the shadow people of course, and
[1:45:02] Speaker 3: you know, I was raised up, so there was a
[1:45:05] Speaker 3: lot of you know, Christian beliefs in hell and the
[1:45:08] Speaker 3: devil and all that kind of stuff. So I had
[1:45:10] Speaker 3: one sleepers prosis where you now, I'm you know, they're
[1:45:13] Speaker 3: Satan and he's trying to be all this you know,
[1:45:15] Speaker 3: negative stuff. But by this point I got so good
[1:45:17] Speaker 3: at just recognizing the dreams that I just looked at
[1:45:19] Speaker 3: the you know, arch type that was there and I
[1:45:22] Speaker 3: just went, well, you just let's just deal with this,
[1:45:25] Speaker 3: and I just deconstructed it into basically hypnogogic information and
[1:45:30] Speaker 3: threw it away and it never never bothered me again.
[1:45:32] Speaker 3: So I realized it was just an artifact of localized
[1:45:35] Speaker 3: belief that was now actualizing in fear replay. All right,
[1:45:39] Speaker 3: so I study a lot of you read my course
[1:45:41] Speaker 3: on Overcoming Fair NIGHTMAREE, you'll understand that. You know, I've
[1:45:43] Speaker 3: had to go through that too, go through the you know,
[1:45:46] Speaker 3: the boogeyman in the closet and that kind of stuff.
[1:45:48] Speaker 3: But a lot of that can be based on our fears.
[1:45:50] Speaker 3: The shadow people, too, is also in a perception thing
[1:45:53] Speaker 3: that a lot of the times they're actually just dream
[1:45:55] Speaker 3: characters and we're not perceiving them properly, so they just
[1:45:57] Speaker 3: look like shadow people, you know. And I've noticed that
[1:46:00] Speaker 3: again early on. I don't have that anymore. But when
[1:46:03] Speaker 3: I was younger, Yeah, when I was noticing all this
[1:46:06] Speaker 3: deficiencies in perception. One time, yeah, it was all I
[1:46:10] Speaker 3: could see were shadow people. And I started shifting my perception,
[1:46:13] Speaker 3: and all of a sudden they all became people and
[1:46:15] Speaker 3: I could see what they look like. And I was like, oh, well,
[1:46:17] Speaker 3: this is just an issue of perception. You know, I
[1:46:20] Speaker 3: wasn't on the right frequency maybe or not prising the
[1:46:24] Speaker 3: information property. But you get into those challenges back then.
[1:46:27] Speaker 3: But once I started getting into working with dream finality cleaning,
[1:46:32] Speaker 3: all that kind of stuff up, all that stuff that
[1:46:34] Speaker 3: goes away, all the young yin archetypes, you know, your
[1:46:36] Speaker 3: teeth falling out. Oh you hear all that kind of stuff.
[1:46:38] Speaker 3: That to me is the house cleaning. That's the early
[1:46:40] Speaker 3: stuff with it. But once it's gone, it's gone. No
[1:46:44] Speaker 3: more reoccurring dreams, no more rumerations, no more nightmares. I
[1:46:47] Speaker 3: think I've had a nightmare in over thirty three years.
[1:46:50] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:46:50] Speaker 1: I was talking to someone earlier, actually on an earlier
[1:46:53] Speaker 1: show that I was doing, about how shedding fear helps
[1:46:57] Speaker 1: so much in our waking life. And are you talking
[1:47:00] Speaker 1: about how you know shedding fear can help in your
[1:47:02] Speaker 1: dreaming life. I find that, you know, rather synchronistic that
[1:47:05] Speaker 1: we're talking about that earlier. Yeah, it seems to be
[1:47:09] Speaker 1: one of the most important things really ever, is to
[1:47:11] Speaker 1: get rid of fear so that we can move forward
[1:47:14] Speaker 1: in anything.
[1:47:15] Speaker 3: Fear is the dream killer. Well, the problem with fear
[1:47:17] Speaker 3: too when you look at studying fear. Unfortunately, you know
[1:47:20] Speaker 3: people say, well, dreams can't hurt you. Well, they're not
[1:47:23] Speaker 3: exactly being honest, because there is one particular series of
[1:47:25] Speaker 3: dreams that can become quite complicated for people that are
[1:47:28] Speaker 3: going through fear. We play as a nightmare. The problem
[1:47:30] Speaker 3: with it is dreams connect to our limbic system, so
[1:47:32] Speaker 3: our body does release the same hormones that it releases
[1:47:35] Speaker 3: during the day to create the fight or flight response, right,
[1:47:38] Speaker 3: And so that's adrenaline and cordicil, which causes your heartbeat
[1:47:41] Speaker 3: to rise. You're going to breathe heavier, your blood vessels constrict,
[1:47:44] Speaker 3: and it can elevate. And if it elevates, we have
[1:47:47] Speaker 3: the primus, which is a nerve cluster in the cerebellion
[1:47:49] Speaker 3: that gets short circuited. It causes that paralysis or that terror,
[1:47:52] Speaker 3: so it can escalate to a night terror. Now, of
[1:47:54] Speaker 3: course in a dream, it's not real, so you don't
[1:47:56] Speaker 3: need to have fight or flight. You're sleeping right because
[1:48:00] Speaker 3: it seems so real that your body now is responding
[1:48:02] Speaker 3: to it and going through fear replace So, you know,
[1:48:05] Speaker 3: people that have fears, and then most of us can
[1:48:08] Speaker 3: now rationalize through a fear. So we get spooked, you know,
[1:48:11] Speaker 3: our prefrontal cortext kicks in and we start to rationalize
[1:48:14] Speaker 3: is the threat real or is that the threat false.
[1:48:16] Speaker 3: You know, we go through that in our waking life,
[1:48:18] Speaker 3: but a lot of it comes from our childhood. Unfortunately,
[1:48:21] Speaker 3: kids can be exposed to a lot of things that
[1:48:23] Speaker 3: are going to invoke fears. Well, fear replay starts to
[1:48:26] Speaker 3: especially in developing mind form actual neural pathways for that,
[1:48:29] Speaker 3: it starts to embed and it can become a phobia
[1:48:30] Speaker 3: and those get a lot more hard to get rid of,
[1:48:32] Speaker 3: and thoseobia can also play out in the dream state
[1:48:34] Speaker 3: as nightmares and if it gets even really bad. But
[1:48:38] Speaker 3: again this is again people who don't have fear management
[1:48:41] Speaker 3: right or don't work with fear management, and they let
[1:48:43] Speaker 3: the fear get the better of them. It can escalate
[1:48:44] Speaker 3: to you and things like mental health issues with like
[1:48:46] Speaker 3: psychosis and things like that. But again that's the escalating factors.
[1:48:53] Speaker 3: So when we get into resolving nightmares, it's not an
[1:48:57] Speaker 3: issue of facing your nightmare while you're in a nightmare
[1:48:59] Speaker 3: that kind of a practice. It's about recognizing what the
[1:49:02] Speaker 3: fears are while you're awake and working with releasing them
[1:49:04] Speaker 3: because it's just embedded patterns of thought and emotion and
[1:49:08] Speaker 3: mostly it's the emotional charge behind it that gets the
[1:49:10] Speaker 3: replay always happening, and then we work with what's called
[1:49:13] Speaker 3: positive psychological enablers, So we start to try to break
[1:49:17] Speaker 3: down what are your negative what's your negative self all about?
[1:49:20] Speaker 3: Because we all have a shadow self, we all have
[1:49:21] Speaker 3: the anti self or the negative bias, and this our
[1:49:24] Speaker 3: inner self critic and it's not a healthy thing either,
[1:49:27] Speaker 3: because that's the kind of part of where people can't
[1:49:29] Speaker 3: look in the mirror anymore. They look in the mirror
[1:49:30] Speaker 3: they hate themselves, you know, lacks of love but lacks
[1:49:33] Speaker 3: any empathy from themselves. So the negative part of us
[1:49:35] Speaker 3: is really bad, the self savaging part, and it'll reflect
[1:49:37] Speaker 3: in the dream state as well. So what we do
[1:49:39] Speaker 3: is we work on understanding that and working on positive
[1:49:43] Speaker 3: you know, psychological enablers, so that we can now if
[1:49:46] Speaker 3: I say, well, I can't you just kind of flip
[1:49:48] Speaker 3: it too, I can you start breaking down your own
[1:49:51] Speaker 3: programming to get rid of the junk that's in the way.
[1:49:54] Speaker 3: And yeah, of course, you know. One of the things
[1:49:57] Speaker 3: that I look at, and that is the wildness of
[1:49:58] Speaker 3: our subconscious mind tends to be the wildness of our
[1:50:01] Speaker 3: conscious life for some people. And I noticed that and
[1:50:04] Speaker 3: engaging people that have drug addiction and homelessness and that
[1:50:06] Speaker 3: kind of stuff that you really see where they're rum
[1:50:09] Speaker 3: rating and even while they're awaken talking to you, they
[1:50:11] Speaker 3: get into loops right into all these thought loops that
[1:50:14] Speaker 3: are derivative of things that they're not being able to
[1:50:17] Speaker 3: release from or let go of and resolve.
[1:50:18] Speaker 1: So, yeah, that's pretty found how we can get stuck
[1:50:22] Speaker 1: in those loops the past. Yeah, earlier you were talking
[1:50:27] Speaker 1: about how someone was actually kind of trapped in this
[1:50:30] Speaker 1: dream state and how time is as much different than
[1:50:33] Speaker 1: than we perceive it in our waking state. How you know,
[1:50:37] Speaker 1: talk about that, How did how did that occur as
[1:50:40] Speaker 1: someone being trapped in a dream state for for for
[1:50:43] Speaker 1: a long.
[1:50:44] Speaker 3: Period of time. Well, I mean there's no brainer that
[1:50:47] Speaker 3: we have perception of time. You know, there's like we
[1:50:50] Speaker 3: can be driving and our perception of time can cause
[1:50:52] Speaker 3: a sense of dirty where it can speed up or
[1:50:54] Speaker 3: slow down. You know, we don't notice time passing because
[1:50:57] Speaker 3: time is again emerges from information processing. It's it's linked
[1:51:00] Speaker 3: to how we're processing each frame of information as it's
[1:51:04] Speaker 3: presenting itself, and very fast of course, but that creates
[1:51:08] Speaker 3: your sense of time. Now, we do know like with hypnosis,
[1:51:10] Speaker 3: even meditation, even with dreaming and an ethogen use, that
[1:51:14] Speaker 3: people can have a prolonged sense of time, so there's
[1:51:17] Speaker 3: sense of time can be longer than the duration of
[1:51:19] Speaker 3: time physically seems to be taking place, and that they're
[1:51:22] Speaker 3: starting to get some better research on it, like I mean,
[1:51:24] Speaker 3: they're linking it to gabba. And also our hippocampus, which
[1:51:28] Speaker 3: is especially for dreams, is releasing the dream replay information,
[1:51:32] Speaker 3: but it goes through oscillation frequencies, so it can release
[1:51:34] Speaker 3: more information or less information. And depending on how we're
[1:51:38] Speaker 3: now in that information, it may give us a stronger
[1:51:41] Speaker 3: sense of more time or less time, depending on how
[1:51:43] Speaker 3: much information that we're now if we're aware of it
[1:51:46] Speaker 3: now we're involved in it. And I noticed that with
[1:51:48] Speaker 3: some of the dream students that I've had to go through,
[1:51:50] Speaker 3: where they all of a sudden notice dream information is
[1:51:52] Speaker 3: going on really fast, like it's like hyper speed. And
[1:51:55] Speaker 3: that's probably because now they're starting to become more self
[1:51:57] Speaker 3: aware during non ram or when the oscillation frequent season
[1:52:00] Speaker 3: a hippocampus are changing. So I've experienced it. I mean,
[1:52:03] Speaker 3: I've talked to a lot of people that I've had
[1:52:05] Speaker 3: You know, you have a thirty minute nap, but you
[1:52:07] Speaker 3: feel like you come for hours. I mean, Chrystopher Nolan
[1:52:10] Speaker 3: play it on that right, But that's tying into at
[1:52:12] Speaker 3: least what I can see as things with the oscillation
[1:52:17] Speaker 3: of frequency in the hippocampus as it's releasing information from replay,
[1:52:21] Speaker 3: as well as the effects of gabba. I mean, that's
[1:52:23] Speaker 3: the you know what thing. I mean neuroscientists are looking at.
[1:52:26] Speaker 3: I don't know if every came across an article where
[1:52:28] Speaker 3: they wanted to get a drug that could make a
[1:52:29] Speaker 3: prisoner feel like they were trapped in that prison for
[1:52:32] Speaker 3: a thousand years because of taking a pill that will
[1:52:35] Speaker 3: affect perception of time. So I mean there are there
[1:52:37] Speaker 3: are catching on to that is an actual real thing.
[1:52:40] Speaker 3: I mean I see it a lot in a lot
[1:52:42] Speaker 3: of articles that I read. I mean, I don't use drugs.
[1:52:46] Speaker 3: Our stuff is entirely drugs for you, So we don't
[1:52:48] Speaker 3: promote the use of an ethogen's or any drugs to
[1:52:51] Speaker 3: stimulate dreaming. I've never used drugs for my practice. I
[1:52:55] Speaker 3: only had one encounter because of a friend a long
[1:52:57] Speaker 3: time ago with magic commotionis you don't wanted to say, well, hey,
[1:53:00] Speaker 3: and all this cool stuff with dreams, so you're gonna
[1:53:01] Speaker 3: have to get this. This is going to give you that kick.
[1:53:02] Speaker 3: And all it did for me was it made my
[1:53:04] Speaker 3: waking life a noisy dream so I couldn't read and
[1:53:07] Speaker 3: all this stuff I was trying to clean up was
[1:53:08] Speaker 3: like now presenting because of the euthogenm like now this
[1:53:10] Speaker 3: is this is going backwards for me. So, you know,
[1:53:13] Speaker 3: a lot of people, because of a lot of you know,
[1:53:16] Speaker 3: Carlo's Castaneda and the art of dreaming with the use
[1:53:19] Speaker 3: of poti and stuff like that created a whole movement
[1:53:22] Speaker 3: of people that wanted to explore an ethogenic dreaming. Which
[1:53:25] Speaker 3: is fine, you can still have a trippy dream and
[1:53:28] Speaker 3: get something out of it. But unfortunately, like Don Juan said,
[1:53:31] Speaker 3: you didn't need the drugs. You can do it on
[1:53:32] Speaker 3: your own. You don't need it. You know, birds don't
[1:53:34] Speaker 3: need it, mammals don't need it. But humans, well, we're funny.
[1:53:37] Speaker 3: We multiple sorts of interesting shortcuts. But if you study
[1:53:41] Speaker 3: shortcuts in life steroids, well, there's long term consequences with
[1:53:44] Speaker 3: short term gains in this world. So you know, make
[1:53:47] Speaker 3: sure my students are aware of that.
[1:53:49] Speaker 1: Definitely. Now, would you say that the practice of remote
[1:53:54] Speaker 1: viewing is linked to dreaming in any way.
[1:53:57] Speaker 3: Well, again, you know, remote viewing is different. As you know,
[1:54:00] Speaker 3: the US military tumble down that rabbit hole and we
[1:54:04] Speaker 3: had Ngo Swan and of course there's a lot of
[1:54:06] Speaker 3: people that were involved with the men who stare at
[1:54:09] Speaker 3: goats kind of branch of the US military. So remote
[1:54:13] Speaker 3: viewing isn't done via dreaming. It's done while you're awake.
[1:54:15] Speaker 3: So what a remote viewer will do will sit down
[1:54:17] Speaker 3: with a piece of paper and we'll be given a
[1:54:19] Speaker 3: set of coordinates and what they're now doing is try
[1:54:22] Speaker 3: to feel and sense information that's anchored to that. And
[1:54:28] Speaker 3: what they'll do is they usually work with a team
[1:54:30] Speaker 3: of people that will then sit down and work with that. Now,
[1:54:33] Speaker 3: there's different types of remote viewing, of course, because there's
[1:54:36] Speaker 3: some that try to scry the future and see what's
[1:54:38] Speaker 3: happening in the future, like the dreams that might be
[1:54:40] Speaker 3: linked to deja rays, but they're doing that while they're awake.
[1:54:42] Speaker 3: It's a different type of practice all together. But it
[1:54:45] Speaker 3: is an attention focusing, you know, using you know, your
[1:54:51] Speaker 3: awareness to try to get information that isn't being But
[1:54:55] Speaker 3: there's a lot of things that they do notice and
[1:54:58] Speaker 3: they call it noise. You know, remote viewers have to
[1:55:00] Speaker 3: make sure that they're not just feeding off of their
[1:55:04] Speaker 3: intellectual mind feeding them you know, assumptions and things like that.
[1:55:08] Speaker 3: That's why they do it more than one person in
[1:55:10] Speaker 3: that practice. But that's that other part of us that
[1:55:14] Speaker 3: you know. I do think we have consciousness and self
[1:55:16] Speaker 3: awareness that resides in non locality, you know. Another way
[1:55:20] Speaker 3: looking at it, you know, that goes back to the
[1:55:22] Speaker 3: idea of a conscious singularity, Like the universe started off
[1:55:24] Speaker 3: as a singularity and then what you know, expanded into
[1:55:27] Speaker 3: a multiverse and we're all part of that, our interconnected
[1:55:29] Speaker 3: with that process. That's why we're here today, you know.
[1:55:32] Speaker 1: So I think that's also kind of connected to precognitive dreaming,
[1:55:37] Speaker 1: where you'll have a dream and then it happens in
[1:55:39] Speaker 1: the future.
[1:55:41] Speaker 3: Yeah. And again the thing is like, you know, our
[1:55:44] Speaker 3: understanding of time here is linear in the sense that
[1:55:47] Speaker 3: that's how we move through our life. In you start
[1:55:50] Speaker 3: looking into things like probability distributions, like you know, I
[1:55:54] Speaker 3: look at the future as a would say, possibly the
[1:55:57] Speaker 3: fifth dimensional probability distribut that there is not really a
[1:56:02] Speaker 3: predeterministic more like a choose your own adventure effect in
[1:56:06] Speaker 3: our reality that we are moving through a probability distribution,
[1:56:09] Speaker 3: and it's quite likely if our universe is information, then
[1:56:12] Speaker 3: all we're doing is parsing data like reading a book.
[1:56:14] Speaker 3: You know that all time and all things are already
[1:56:17] Speaker 3: there in this massive probability database that represents everything the
[1:56:21] Speaker 3: entire universe, and we're just nodes of awareness in that
[1:56:25] Speaker 3: that are parsing experience from it. You know. Very cool.
[1:56:29] Speaker 1: Now, I thought for the last few minutes we have
[1:56:31] Speaker 1: that you could give us some of examples of your
[1:56:35] Speaker 1: lucid dream of experiences. Maybe some are just the most
[1:56:39] Speaker 1: profound one that you've had recently, or or any of
[1:56:43] Speaker 1: them at all, that that may give an example or
[1:56:45] Speaker 1: a better idea of what this is about.
[1:56:48] Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean there's so much or dug and
[1:56:51] Speaker 3: someone that does it quite regularly. I'm on the entertaining
[1:56:53] Speaker 3: side of things. You know, I still work with source
[1:56:55] Speaker 3: material and I have fun dreams, so you know, I
[1:56:58] Speaker 3: to this day, I'll play certain video games like fall
[1:57:00] Speaker 3: Over of border Lands or right now is doing Star
[1:57:02] Speaker 3: Wars Net of the Old Republic, and I was just
[1:57:03] Speaker 3: having fun dreaming play with that lucid self aware in
[1:57:06] Speaker 3: it and just acting role playing the way I do.
[1:57:08] Speaker 3: You know, I do a lot of fun stuff with it,
[1:57:11] Speaker 3: other things with the lucid dreaming stuff. I mean, it
[1:57:14] Speaker 3: can get into you know, releasing anxieties and stresses, and
[1:57:19] Speaker 3: I'll build those up in life. So even I too
[1:57:21] Speaker 3: have to do some house cleaning. So you know, I'll
[1:57:23] Speaker 3: find myself, especially after something traumatic or like a relationship breakup,
[1:57:27] Speaker 3: I go through a process of sorting all that out
[1:57:29] Speaker 3: or someone passing away. My loocid dreams tend to present,
[1:57:32] Speaker 3: you know, a way to work through the releasing of
[1:57:34] Speaker 3: those kind of emotions that come from it. So I
[1:57:37] Speaker 3: overcome grief a lot quicker. I'll overcome trauma a lot quicker.
[1:57:40] Speaker 3: That helps me get rid of the past, and it
[1:57:42] Speaker 3: keeps it there, but it gets through the emotionality, the
[1:57:45] Speaker 3: charge that's there in it. So but I have a
[1:57:47] Speaker 3: lot I mean we're talking, I mean the past amount
[1:57:51] Speaker 3: just like even on the weekend it was nothing, but
[1:57:54] Speaker 3: you know, like living in your own through the rabbit hole.
[1:57:57] Speaker 3: Also in Wonderland Adventure slash Doctor Parnarsis imaginarium right like
[1:58:03] Speaker 3: when you get into it where you can do pretty
[1:58:04] Speaker 3: much whatever you want. I'm into the story. The narrative
[1:58:08] Speaker 3: the role play the time too, because I'm into cultivating
[1:58:10] Speaker 3: time with dreams. This a big part of my motivator
[1:58:13] Speaker 3: because everybody's going to of course die. We're all traveling
[1:58:16] Speaker 3: at the speed of life. There's aid and stop at
[1:58:18] Speaker 3: the end. How do we get more time? Well, I
[1:58:20] Speaker 3: found through being self aware in a dream what I'm
[1:58:22] Speaker 3: gaining time. People that don't engage in dreams, they actually,
[1:58:25] Speaker 3: if they are amnesia dreamers, by the time they reach
[1:58:28] Speaker 3: eighty will have slept away twenty five years of potential experience. Now,
[1:58:31] Speaker 3: if you take the atheist approach that we don't survive death,
[1:58:35] Speaker 3: but you're not getting those twenty five years back, you
[1:58:37] Speaker 3: know of lost experience, right, And a lot of us
[1:58:39] Speaker 3: are experienced junkies, And that's why people take the n
[1:58:41] Speaker 3: ethogenic rout because it's working for them. They want that experience.
[1:58:44] Speaker 3: A lot of us go to movie theaters because we
[1:58:45] Speaker 3: want that experience. But dreams from you, it is just
[1:58:47] Speaker 3: another vehicle of experience and self expression. But I look
[1:58:50] Speaker 3: at it as, you know, the ultimate form of art.
[1:58:53] Speaker 3: You know, I come at it really as an artistic
[1:58:55] Speaker 3: creative process. And you know, once you clean up all
[1:58:58] Speaker 3: the garbage and start having really great dreams, you kind
[1:59:00] Speaker 3: of don't want to stop. It's like, well, I've worked
[1:59:02] Speaker 3: hard for this, so I let's keep maintaining and having
[1:59:05] Speaker 3: amazing dream experiences until you know that said and stop.
[1:59:09] Speaker 1: Yeah, So basically, you know, I mean, anyone, anyone can
[1:59:11] Speaker 1: do this. Anyone can go to sleep and live any
[1:59:14] Speaker 1: kind of adventure or or our lifestyle or the craziest,
[1:59:19] Speaker 1: most amazing movie they've ever seen and do this whenever
[1:59:23] Speaker 1: they want, just by practicing with this.
[1:59:26] Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, of course, because like I said, if you're
[1:59:27] Speaker 3: not again stimulating your mind for it, and like you know,
[1:59:30] Speaker 3: I've had students that engage the memory training, they step
[1:59:34] Speaker 3: away for a little bit and they come back and go.
[1:59:36] Speaker 3: You know I you know, I was noticing I was
[1:59:37] Speaker 3: getting all these results, and I was working with a
[1:59:39] Speaker 3: dream plan, you know, in a dream routine, and then
[1:59:41] Speaker 3: as soon as I stepped away, it's just all kind
[1:59:43] Speaker 3: of like it went away. And I'm like, well, because
[1:59:44] Speaker 3: first of all, you have atrophy. You know, atro fee
[1:59:47] Speaker 3: isn't treated by starting any skill and then suddenly stopping.
[1:59:52] Speaker 3: We all know that. You know, you I start playing
[1:59:54] Speaker 3: the guitar this day, and you know, you start making
[1:59:56] Speaker 3: some progress, Well, he stopped playing the guitar. I'm too busy.
[1:59:59] Speaker 3: I don't want to go back to my guitar. Weeks later,
[2:00:01] Speaker 3: you get back and it's just feel like you're starting
[2:00:03] Speaker 3: over again. Right, So it's like with any skills. So
[2:00:05] Speaker 3: I tried to create a program that's going to get
[2:00:07] Speaker 3: people at least come back and keep stimulating and training.
[2:00:09] Speaker 3: And some got a bit overwhelmed by it because I
[2:00:12] Speaker 3: started training so much. But it's like like anything, you've
[2:00:14] Speaker 3: got to find a pace with it where you're not
[2:00:16] Speaker 3: letting it go too far that the actrophe creeps back in.
[2:00:19] Speaker 3: But you're going with enough training that you're resolving the actrophy.
[2:00:22] Speaker 3: So you're seeing the results because I'm like going to
[2:00:24] Speaker 3: the gym where we see our body get healthy and strong.
[2:00:26] Speaker 3: You can only measure it by the results of the
[2:00:28] Speaker 3: actual dream content and in the dream experience, and so
[2:00:30] Speaker 3: it becomes self evident that hey, this work that I'm
[2:00:32] Speaker 3: doing here is producing this result here in my dream state.
[2:00:36] Speaker 3: So you know, you know, my students also get what
[2:00:39] Speaker 3: you put into your dream experience like you do with
[2:00:40] Speaker 3: any skill in life. But it is trainable. The key
[2:00:43] Speaker 3: is ParticipACTION, like learning how to actually just participate in
[2:00:46] Speaker 3: those three to five dreams. But fortunately, depending on what
[2:00:49] Speaker 3: age we are, it gets harder as we get older.
[2:00:51] Speaker 3: I've met students in the sixty plus category. They've had
[2:00:54] Speaker 3: to run the memory course twice, but they ran it
[2:00:57] Speaker 3: twice because they saw results. You know. But people that
[2:00:59] Speaker 3: have maybe trumped to ten years or twenty years may
[2:01:02] Speaker 3: find it a lot harder than somebody who's dreamt only
[2:01:04] Speaker 3: once a week, right, because we still have a foundation.
[2:01:06] Speaker 3: We've all been dreaming since we're kids, and like you say,
[2:01:09] Speaker 3: suddenly this little gift goes away, but the framework for
[2:01:13] Speaker 3: dreaming is always there. It's just the part where it
[2:01:15] Speaker 3: comes to us our self awareness, who we identify ourselves with,
[2:01:19] Speaker 3: isn't getting that information. It's all in a state of amnesia.
[2:01:21] Speaker 3: So it's overcoming that in that practice and gaining results.
[2:01:25] Speaker 3: So yeah, everything we do is training, and you know,
[2:01:29] Speaker 3: the students that have advanced. I have that one student
[2:01:31] Speaker 3: where they can work with any source material and then
[2:01:33] Speaker 3: have a dream with it the next that night. And
[2:01:35] Speaker 3: me it takes me sometimes I can, but I work
[2:01:37] Speaker 3: with source material for like a week before I started
[2:01:39] Speaker 3: getting what I call really good results with it. But
[2:01:41] Speaker 3: then you know, I can be in that source material
[2:01:43] Speaker 3: type dream and go this is wrong, this is wrong,
[2:01:46] Speaker 3: that's wrong, and I'll go back to the source material
[2:01:48] Speaker 3: and I'll work on the information and then I'll find that, oh,
[2:01:52] Speaker 3: now it's being correct. Because the subconscious mind is inventive,
[2:01:54] Speaker 3: you know, if it doesn't have data, it likes to
[2:01:56] Speaker 3: invent it. And your dreams will be a good example
[2:01:58] Speaker 3: of seeing that. If you don't have the nation that's
[2:02:00] Speaker 3: there for the replay. So I collect data during the day.
[2:02:03] Speaker 3: Experiences during the day is paint for my dreams. That's awesome.
[2:02:07] Speaker 1: And I do have a question that I almost forgot
[2:02:09] Speaker 1: to ask you from one of my friends. They want
[2:02:11] Speaker 1: to know that they're having a lot of recurring nightmares.
[2:02:14] Speaker 1: They want to know if there's an easy way to
[2:02:17] Speaker 1: turn a nightmare into a good dream or just get
[2:02:19] Speaker 1: rid of it all together.
[2:02:20] Speaker 3: I mean, like anything, these these are pretty much again,
[2:02:24] Speaker 3: it can stem from a trauma or fear. You know,
[2:02:26] Speaker 3: that's usually from our childhood, so it's coming out a
[2:02:28] Speaker 3: bit embedded. Recurrent dreams are good example of that. Well,
[2:02:32] Speaker 3: what we do with that is when you start getting
[2:02:34] Speaker 3: into active dreaming. A lot of the time your mind
[2:02:37] Speaker 3: doesn't have time to replay that nightmare because you're too
[2:02:39] Speaker 3: busy doing something else, so you're already diverting your attention
[2:02:42] Speaker 3: away from it. But like you know, with some of
[2:02:44] Speaker 3: the students that we've had come through it, for example,
[2:02:46] Speaker 3: one was getting into that nightmare environment and because now
[2:02:51] Speaker 3: they have some training, they have some skill, you know,
[2:02:53] Speaker 3: they were going through that and then wait a second, no,
[2:02:57] Speaker 3: I'm just going to change it and right there in
[2:02:58] Speaker 3: the dream boom. Because what happens is when you start
[2:03:01] Speaker 3: to think, now that you have self awareness, you can
[2:03:03] Speaker 3: make choice. The hippo campus is now going to say, well, oh,
[2:03:05] Speaker 3: this memory packet needs to come out. This is what
[2:03:08] Speaker 3: you know. You the occupant of your experience is saying, yeah,
[2:03:11] Speaker 3: I want to play this, and it will change in
[2:03:13] Speaker 3: more right in front of you in the dream state
[2:03:14] Speaker 3: and become that right and it just you know, that's
[2:03:17] Speaker 3: now you're working with your dreaming mind and not letting
[2:03:20] Speaker 3: it be in the wallnes secret subconscious. But it is
[2:03:22] Speaker 3: a skill. It takes some time to get that. We
[2:03:24] Speaker 3: had another student, I mean it was quite happy because
[2:03:26] Speaker 3: now you know, we all have our little bit of
[2:03:27] Speaker 3: skeletons in the closet from our dream state having nightmarish
[2:03:30] Speaker 3: elements that need to be released, and so he's quite
[2:03:32] Speaker 3: happy that you got to beat up the dream characters
[2:03:34] Speaker 3: that we're giving the nightmare. He went all neo and
[2:03:35] Speaker 3: the matrix. And I find that's quite often the case.
[2:03:38] Speaker 3: Like a lot of the ones that get now self aware,
[2:03:40] Speaker 3: they just like it's like to become neo in your
[2:03:42] Speaker 3: own matrix, in the matrix of the mind.
[2:03:44] Speaker 1: Man, that is really cool. Now before you head out,
[2:03:47] Speaker 1: let everyone know if they're interested out in finding more
[2:03:51] Speaker 1: about this. It's dreaming forgamers dot com and anywhere else
[2:03:55] Speaker 1: they can find your work or anything else you're working on.
[2:03:58] Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's the start of the wrapp If you know,
[2:04:00] Speaker 3: if you had a dream come true and you want
[2:04:02] Speaker 3: to dig into that, you can go to your dreaming
[2:04:03] Speaker 3: dot Org. I have information on that there. But I mean,
[2:04:06] Speaker 3: for like I said, most people, you know, the sooner
[2:04:10] Speaker 3: you start with dream training, as soon as you start
[2:04:12] Speaker 3: addressing atrophy, and as soon as you can get your
[2:04:15] Speaker 3: dreaming mind back online. Like one student ran through two
[2:04:17] Speaker 3: weeks worth of training and in fourteen days accomplish what
[2:04:19] Speaker 3: took me two years to do. That's the difference when
[2:04:21] Speaker 3: you have information that comes from experience versus you know not.
[2:04:25] Speaker 3: So they were they now they're just awesome. I mean,
[2:04:27] Speaker 3: I love what that person is now able to do
[2:04:30] Speaker 3: with their dream experience. And you know, it's not like
[2:04:32] Speaker 3: you have to stick around forever. A lot of times
[2:04:34] Speaker 3: people will counter my work, get what they need from it,
[2:04:37] Speaker 3: and then they're gone and off on the off, on
[2:04:39] Speaker 3: their own, doing their own Because my whole thing with
[2:04:43] Speaker 3: the dream practice is it's all about you and your dreams,
[2:04:45] Speaker 3: your relationship with your dreams. And so I don't teach
[2:04:47] Speaker 3: people or tell people what to dream and just give
[2:04:49] Speaker 3: them skills, and it's I always have some size. You know,
[2:04:52] Speaker 3: this is your dream experience. You're the dream artist. What
[2:04:54] Speaker 3: are you going to paint? So I don't say, you know,
[2:04:58] Speaker 3: dream what I dream. You never going to do that.
[2:05:00] Speaker 3: I can't dream your dream for you. You can't dream
[2:05:02] Speaker 3: my dream for me. But I can definitely provide the
[2:05:04] Speaker 3: skill set to improve your you know, knowledge in practice
[2:05:08] Speaker 3: and that in a way that's very it's all orientated,
[2:05:12] Speaker 3: but it takes time. I won't lie and say, oh, yeah,
[2:05:14] Speaker 3: you're just going to do it. It's be easy. There's
[2:05:15] Speaker 3: a lot of people that lie about it and just
[2:05:17] Speaker 3: try to get you know, we call it clickbait and
[2:05:19] Speaker 3: stuff like that, but I don't. I mean, I know
[2:05:20] Speaker 3: the skill. I know people like myself that trained very
[2:05:23] Speaker 3: hard at it, and we all know we got there
[2:05:25] Speaker 3: from practicing work and dedication to participating in that process.
[2:05:30] Speaker 1: Yeah, man, this is such so cool stuff. Who wouldn't
[2:05:33] Speaker 1: want to, you know, be able to control their own
[2:05:35] Speaker 1: dreams and live in an alternate reality. So encourage everyone,
[2:05:39] Speaker 1: please go check out those websites. I'll have those links
[2:05:42] Speaker 1: in the description. And Ian, thank you so much for
[2:05:45] Speaker 1: joining us tonight. We'll have you back on we go
[2:05:47] Speaker 1: deeper down the rabbit hole next time.
[2:05:49] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of fun things we
[2:05:50] Speaker 3: can talk about, because again, when you start engaging what
[2:05:53] Speaker 3: you are self awareness and consciousness, and you start going
[2:05:55] Speaker 3: beyond the constraints of the centerface and find out, hey,
[2:05:58] Speaker 3: you're just focus states focusing on different parts of yourself,
[2:06:01] Speaker 3: there's a lot more to you than right here.
[2:06:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, man, fascinating stuff. All right, Ian, Well, thank you again.
[2:06:07] Speaker 1: You have a good night. Until next time, everyone have
[2:06:10] Speaker 1: a great night.
[2:06:12] Speaker 3: Thanks so much. Chris.
[2:06:15] Speaker 1: If you're looking to start your therapeutic microdosing journey, but
[2:06:19] Speaker 1: don't know where to start, especially when looking for the
[2:06:22] Speaker 1: highest quality ingredients including new tropics and what you'd expect
[2:06:27] Speaker 1: from a true microdose capsule. Check out our friends at
[2:06:31] Speaker 1: brain Supreme. They offer the absolute highest quality ingredients, so
[2:06:36] Speaker 1: you can start your microdosing journey knowing that you're getting
[2:06:40] Speaker 1: top notch ingredients. To find out more, visit their website
[2:06:44] Speaker 1: using that link right in the description and you can
[2:06:47] Speaker 1: get fifteen percent off your entire order. Hello friends, I
[2:06:52] Speaker 1: am so excited to tell you about Independent Media Token.
[2:06:57] Speaker 1: Independent media Token is a brand new way to show
[2:07:00] Speaker 1: your support for independent media without having to donate a dime.
[2:07:05] Speaker 1: Independent media Token is a cryptocurrency on the Solana blockchain
[2:07:11] Speaker 1: designed to generate funds to promote and foster the growth
[2:07:15] Speaker 1: of independent content creators, allowing them to engage in their
[2:07:20] Speaker 1: art without having to worry about being demonetized through a
[2:07:24] Speaker 1: network of media partners of which you, yourself can become
[2:07:28] Speaker 1: a part of. Independent Media Token's goal is to ensure
[2:07:32] Speaker 1: the powers that be can never cut off all of
[2:07:35] Speaker 1: our areas of funding and censor the only free voices
[2:07:39] Speaker 1: left in the world. Join the movement today. You can
[2:07:43] Speaker 1: pick up Independent Media Token using Phantom wallet or the
[2:07:47] Speaker 1: Solana wallet of your choice, where you can easily swap
[2:07:50] Speaker 1: your Solana for IMT. Grab some IMT today and remember
[2:07:56] Speaker 1: to always know your team. To learn more, visit independentmediatoken
[2:08:01] Speaker 1: dot com. Are used a link right in the description.
[2:08:06] Speaker 1: Are you and your family prepared for an emergency? Maybe
[2:08:09] Speaker 1: the fake alien invasion? Now is the time to prepare
[2:08:13] Speaker 1: yourself and your family for any event. Check out prep
[2:08:17] Speaker 1: starts Now. Their mission is to provide high quality preparedness
[2:08:21] Speaker 1: products that empower individuals and families to be ready for
[2:08:25] Speaker 1: any situation. They're committed to delivering reliable, trusted gear to
[2:08:30] Speaker 1: ensure your safety, security, and peace of mind in times
[2:08:34] Speaker 1: of need. Their product selection is carefully curated to provide
[2:08:39] Speaker 1: you with the essential gear you need to stay prepared.
[2:08:42] Speaker 1: From emergency kits to tactical tools. Every item is chosen
[2:08:47] Speaker 1: for its reliability and practicality. Prep starts Now understands the
[2:08:52] Speaker 1: importance of family, and their goal is to equip you
[2:08:56] Speaker 1: with everything you need to build a solid plan for
[2:08:59] Speaker 1: your family preparedness. In today's ever changing world, being prepared
[2:09:04] Speaker 1: is more important than ever, and prep starts Now is
[2:09:08] Speaker 1: here to help you and your family stay ready with
[2:09:11] Speaker 1: quality products and practical guidance. Use the link in the
[2:09:15] Speaker 1: description and get fifteen percent off your order. We live
[2:09:21] Speaker 1: in an incredible age of information. More and more we're
[2:09:25] Speaker 1: discovering that we've been lied to and misled about much
[2:09:29] Speaker 1: of our human history. Corey Hughes is providing profound revelations
[2:09:34] Speaker 1: about World War I, World War II, the JFK assassination,
[2:09:40] Speaker 1: Martin Luther King's assassination, and much much more on his
[2:09:44] Speaker 1: new substack, Bloody History. Subscribe now for as little as
[2:09:49] Speaker 1: five dollars monthly. Just click that link right in the
[2:09:53] Speaker 1: description to get started now and learn about our true history.

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.