# FKN Classics Double Feature! Russell Targ - Psychic Spies | Burch Driver - Perception Problem

An episode of [Forbidden Knowledge News](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1470192028), 23 Aug 2026, 2 h 14 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/74592059/classicsictargdrive_sd_360p_medium_fr30_23082026.mp3

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## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Enjoy these back to back classic Forbidden Knowledge news episodes. Today,
[0:07] Speaker 1: I want to welcome Russell targ He is a physicist, author,
[0:11] Speaker 1: and pioneer in the development of the laser and laser applications.
[0:15] Speaker 1: He has received two National Aeronautics and Space Administration Awards
[0:20] Speaker 1: for Inventions and Contributions and Lasers and laser communications, and
[0:25] Speaker 1: has published over one hundred scientific papers on lasers, plasma physics,
[0:30] Speaker 1: and esp research. In the nineteen seventies and eighties, he
[0:34] Speaker 1: co founded and worked for the CIA sponsored Stanford Research
[0:39] Speaker 1: Institute Investigation into Psychic Abilities. Russell, welcome, How you doing.
[0:46] Speaker 2: I'm just fine. I'm happy to be with you. It's
[0:50] Speaker 2: a good time to talk about forbidden knowledge. You've got
[0:54] Speaker 2: UFOs just blessed by the government, and my previously secret
[0:59] Speaker 2: match curial has been declassified by the CIA, so I
[1:05] Speaker 2: can tell you about it, tell you everything I know.
[1:08] Speaker 3: That's wonderful.
[1:09] Speaker 1: Yeah, we are living in incredible times, and like you said,
[1:13] Speaker 1: it's a great time for forbidden knowledge. And I'm so
[1:16] Speaker 1: happy to finally get you on. I've been trying to
[1:19] Speaker 1: do this for a while. Like I was telling you before,
[1:21] Speaker 1: I was blessed enough to have your publicist reach out
[1:23] Speaker 1: to me, and the universe came together. So I'm honored
[1:26] Speaker 1: to have you as a guest today. And you're one
[1:29] Speaker 1: of the pioneers in psychic research, and you've made a
[1:32] Speaker 1: great contribution to the field, and you're now helping regular
[1:36] Speaker 1: folks like myself learn how to tap into incredible consciousness abilities.
[1:42] Speaker 1: And you have a new book which we're going to
[1:44] Speaker 1: be getting into today. But before we do any of that,
[1:48] Speaker 1: for those that may not be familiar with you, could
[1:51] Speaker 1: you just tell us a little bit about yourself your
[1:54] Speaker 1: background before we get too far.
[1:57] Speaker 2: I'm a physicist. I was work here lasers from the
[2:03] Speaker 2: nineteen sixties, before the wordy lasers. I was working with
[2:07] Speaker 2: Gordon Gould in New York for the development of the
[2:10] Speaker 2: first laser. Then I went on to build a very
[2:14] Speaker 2: powerful one of the thousand wat carbon dioxide laser in
[2:19] Speaker 2: nineteen sixty and they're the most powerful laser in the
[2:24] Speaker 2: world at that time. So by nineteen sixty I decided
[2:29] Speaker 2: it's a good time to bail out of lasers and
[2:33] Speaker 2: go into the field I always wanted to be in,
[2:36] Speaker 2: which is studying psychic abilities. So I was able to
[2:42] Speaker 2: more pack up my laser experience that I had done
[2:46] Speaker 2: for the CIA and Pridessa and convinced CIA and NASA
[2:51] Speaker 2: that they should give me money to start a program
[2:55] Speaker 2: to teach people how to get in touch with their
[2:58] Speaker 2: psychic abilities. So I went to NASA and I was
[3:02] Speaker 2: at a meeting and ran into the worder Von Brown,
[3:06] Speaker 2: and I had an ESP teaching machine four choice ESP
[3:12] Speaker 2: game which you could actually find is now on the
[3:17] Speaker 2: Apple Store, so the game is called ESP Trainer ESP Trainer,
[3:26] Speaker 2: and Von Brown did super well with his four choice game,
[3:31] Speaker 2: and I told him that I want to teach you
[3:33] Speaker 2: asked us how to get in touch with the spacecraft
[3:37] Speaker 2: so they don't have surprise crashes. But I was aware
[3:42] Speaker 2: that in nineteen sixty three there was a near crash
[3:50] Speaker 2: of Apollo thirteen and if the space if the astrodus
[3:54] Speaker 2: had been aware of the thing that was failing on
[3:58] Speaker 2: the outside, have prevented a big crash. And Von Brown
[4:03] Speaker 2: knew all about that, and he was a lifetime explorer
[4:09] Speaker 2: of psychic abilities. He and his grandmother were very psychics together,
[4:14] Speaker 2: little known fact. So he did super well with by
[4:19] Speaker 2: ESP gay and he then took me to the administrator
[4:24] Speaker 2: of all of NASA James Fletcher and said tag here
[4:28] Speaker 2: has built lasers for us in the past, and he
[4:31] Speaker 2: wants to teach people how to get in touch with
[4:34] Speaker 2: this psychic ability and only wants is eighty thousand dollars
[4:38] Speaker 2: for a program. And Fletcher said, well, where you working now?
[4:44] Speaker 2: And I told him, well, if I'm going to do
[4:46] Speaker 2: the ESP program, I'm going to try and move from
[4:50] Speaker 2: Sylvellia Laser Company to Stanford Research Institute. And at that
[4:57] Speaker 2: moment another coincidence, edgar Mitchell came walking by and he said,
[5:03] Speaker 2: I couldn't help overhear your program. I'm just starting to
[5:08] Speaker 2: work on a new program with SRI. I could introduce
[5:12] Speaker 2: Russell to the president of SRI, and if you're offering
[5:17] Speaker 2: him eighty k I think we can make a deal.
[5:20] Speaker 2: So within a week my idea of doing an ESP
[5:25] Speaker 2: program at Stanford came to fruition and edgar Mitchell and
[5:31] Speaker 2: the contract monitor came with me to meet the president
[5:35] Speaker 2: of SRI, and in May of nineteen seventy two we
[5:44] Speaker 2: had a program on stargate at SRI. I started that
[5:51] Speaker 2: together with another laser guy. I'll put off, so help
[5:54] Speaker 2: put off, and I ran that program for twenty years.
[5:59] Speaker 2: Teaching all sorts of people how to get a touch
[6:02] Speaker 2: on their psychic abilities, principally teaching people from the CIA
[6:08] Speaker 2: how to use their ability to find kidnapped agents down
[6:14] Speaker 2: the airplanes, Russian atomic bomb factories, all sorts of the
[6:22] Speaker 2: CIA were interested in and we had a very nice
[6:26] Speaker 2: relationship with kid Green and Ken Dress, who were top
[6:32] Speaker 2: scientists at CIA, and they worked with us, and we
[6:37] Speaker 2: did that all for twenty years. Now.
[6:40] Speaker 1: At any point were they requesting experiments or results with
[6:47] Speaker 1: something beyond just the remote viewing, such as remote influencing
[6:53] Speaker 1: or affecting people's physical reality in any way.
[6:57] Speaker 2: We were not doing that. We were doing beyond the
[7:01] Speaker 2: beyond ordinary esp We're also looking into the future to
[7:05] Speaker 2: describe what's going to happen the next day or the
[7:08] Speaker 2: next week, and so as signed as physicists, we're interested
[7:14] Speaker 2: in data and we wanted to know how far into
[7:17] Speaker 2: the future can you look with your psychic ability? How
[7:23] Speaker 2: far into the distance can you look? And what we
[7:26] Speaker 2: find is that increasing the distance does not degrade the
[7:32] Speaker 2: accuracy or the reliability. There's no harder. Just sit in
[7:37] Speaker 2: Palo Alto and describe an atomic bomb factory and Siberia
[7:44] Speaker 2: that's no more difficult than to describe where somebody is
[7:47] Speaker 2: hiding in Stanford, five miles from my house.
[7:55] Speaker 1: Now, as as far as we know they are, these programs,
[7:59] Speaker 1: as as they were known at that time, are no
[8:03] Speaker 1: longer in operation. But they had to have taken some
[8:07] Speaker 1: of the information they've learned and implemented it into newer
[8:11] Speaker 1: projects and experiments. What do you think that these programs
[8:16] Speaker 1: have shifted and morphed into and how do you think
[8:20] Speaker 1: that they're implementing the information they learned into our modern programs.
[8:26] Speaker 2: Well, I just made a film the same name as
[8:30] Speaker 2: by my book, Third Eye Spies. Third Eye Spies is
[8:34] Speaker 2: based on a movie that I produced two years ago.
[8:39] Speaker 2: And in that film, we had hitched grade to the
[8:43] Speaker 2: physician and researcher for the CIA for many years, and
[8:49] Speaker 2: he was willing to assure me that even though the
[8:55] Speaker 2: program has been canceled, that the CIA is still pursuing this.
[9:01] Speaker 2: And we had trained a couple of CIA agents who
[9:06] Speaker 2: became very good during remote viewing. But remote viewing, I
[9:12] Speaker 2: would have somebody come into my office and say I
[9:15] Speaker 2: don't believe in this stuff. Show me something psychic, and
[9:20] Speaker 2: I say, well, I'm not going to show you something psychic,
[9:23] Speaker 2: because then you'll think it's the trick because I used
[9:26] Speaker 2: to be a magician. So I'm not going to show
[9:29] Speaker 2: you something's like. I will show you how to do it.
[9:32] Speaker 2: So we're going to have your partner go high somewhere,
[9:37] Speaker 2: or we'll have a random target showsen by an administrator.
[9:42] Speaker 2: He will give my partner and your buddy traveling instruction.
[9:48] Speaker 2: They'll go somewhere in the Bay area, San Francisco Bay Area,
[9:53] Speaker 2: and I will help you to experience where they are.
[9:58] Speaker 2: So I will have this shocked person sitting at my
[10:02] Speaker 2: office table and I will say to say to him, this,
[10:08] Speaker 2: quiet your mind. I'm not asking you to do anything difficult.
[10:14] Speaker 2: Your buddy is hiding someplace in the San Francisco Bay
[10:17] Speaker 2: area and an interesting site. I have no idea where
[10:21] Speaker 2: it could be. Just tell me about the surprising images
[10:26] Speaker 2: that show up in your awareness. This quite as your
[10:30] Speaker 2: mind and what surprises you that appears. You can't do
[10:36] Speaker 2: this wrong, because all I want to know is what
[10:39] Speaker 2: you're experiencing. And with those kind of non directive instructions,
[10:48] Speaker 2: most people were able to do very well to pretty
[10:53] Speaker 2: well describing where their partner is hiding. So that's what
[10:59] Speaker 2: I did for a living for a decade.
[11:03] Speaker 1: I was goad, Oh, I was just gonna ask what
[11:06] Speaker 1: was it like for you to work with individuals like
[11:10] Speaker 1: Ingo swan.
[11:13] Speaker 2: Well. Ingo is a remarkable pursue, the visionary artist, and
[11:18] Speaker 2: he invented remote viewing for us. My partner, Hell and
[11:26] Speaker 2: I are physicists, so we were going to do physics
[11:28] Speaker 2: kinds of experiments. Put a laser in a box that
[11:31] Speaker 2: asked him if it's turned down or turned off, what's
[11:36] Speaker 2: the picture on the wall, And then goes, if I
[11:39] Speaker 2: want to know the picture of the wall, I'll open
[11:41] Speaker 2: the door. If I want to notice in the box,
[11:44] Speaker 2: I'll open the box. What you're asking me for is
[11:48] Speaker 2: a trivialization of my ability. Let me tell show you
[11:55] Speaker 2: what I could actually do. You go hide someplace in
[11:58] Speaker 2: the Bay Area and I'll describe where it is. And
[12:03] Speaker 2: he did that excellently, republished that and that's also in
[12:06] Speaker 2: our film. And he What we realized is that a
[12:11] Speaker 2: person has to be motivated to describe something out of
[12:17] Speaker 2: his body out of resistance, to be interested enough to
[12:22] Speaker 2: do the experiment and out naturalistic naturalistic outdoor targets are
[12:34] Speaker 2: much easier to describe than the objects in the box.
[12:39] Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
[12:41] Speaker 2: And actually Carl Jung visited JB. Ryan, the founder of
[12:49] Speaker 2: modern in the esp research, and he criticized Ryan for
[12:53] Speaker 2: Ryan was doing experiments with special cards. They made up
[12:58] Speaker 2: circle square ours. You may know about them. That's much
[13:03] Speaker 2: harder to do than describe where someone's hiding. Because once
[13:10] Speaker 2: you know that your target a circle, square, star or cross,
[13:18] Speaker 2: once you know that's the possibility, they stand in your
[13:22] Speaker 2: memory as targets of interest, and they stand as noise.
[13:33] Speaker 2: If I tell you, if I tell you I'm thinking
[13:36] Speaker 2: of a playing card, an ordinary deck of cards, the
[13:40] Speaker 2: first thing that pops in the mind in general, the
[13:43] Speaker 2: ace of spades and the fact that you know all
[13:48] Speaker 2: the playing cards very well make it hard to separate
[13:53] Speaker 2: the psychic signal from the metal noise. So if I
[13:58] Speaker 2: tell you is that I've got an interesting object on
[14:01] Speaker 2: my desk here which you can describe, but you've probably
[14:06] Speaker 2: never see the object I was gonna choose. I have
[14:13] Speaker 2: a enounth to be there right now, as I can
[14:16] Speaker 2: tell you that I have an interesting object on my desk,
[14:20] Speaker 2: as you probably have not seen. If ever, tell me
[14:25] Speaker 2: about the mystery object that's easier to describe than a
[14:30] Speaker 2: playing card. Mm hmm, because because I've set the stage
[14:38] Speaker 2: so that you already we've agreed, you're not gonna guess
[14:42] Speaker 2: because it's harder you try to describe. Is not something
[14:47] Speaker 2: that you're likely that now?
[14:50] Speaker 1: Would you say that there is a limit distance wise
[14:55] Speaker 1: for remote viewing, for having the ability to gauge different
[15:00] Speaker 1: objects or activities over a long distance. Is there a
[15:04] Speaker 1: limit to this or can we go even as far
[15:07] Speaker 1: as other planets?
[15:11] Speaker 2: I was just going to give you another planet. And
[15:14] Speaker 2: the course of one of the original program we had
[15:19] Speaker 2: was with the ESP teaching machine, the four choice trainer,
[15:23] Speaker 2: and my contract monitor from NASA came by to see
[15:27] Speaker 2: how we're doing our people learning to improve their skill
[15:32] Speaker 2: and he saw that he played with this game for
[15:36] Speaker 2: a while and saw that we our data showed that
[15:39] Speaker 2: learning was taking place. And he said, you know, we're
[15:43] Speaker 2: sending a spacecraft over off to Jupiter as part of
[15:50] Speaker 2: the Pioneer program, Pioneer number two. We're sending to Jupiter.
[15:57] Speaker 2: And he asked, Ingo, your paintings offen have planets and
[16:03] Speaker 2: stars on them. Could you tell right now are we
[16:08] Speaker 2: going to find anything new when we get to Jupiter,
[16:14] Speaker 2: and he goes, so, yeah, give me a piece of
[16:16] Speaker 2: paper and I'll draw something for you. Because he's an artist.
[16:20] Speaker 2: So he said, I see Jupiter and there's a large ring,
[16:26] Speaker 2: an ice ring, all the way around Jupiter, much larger
[16:30] Speaker 2: than the ordinary rings. So you see he said that
[16:35] Speaker 2: contract monitor said, are you must be thinking of Saturn centers,
[16:41] Speaker 2: the planet with the rings. Then go said, if I
[16:47] Speaker 2: we're looking at Saturn, I tell you that I was
[16:49] Speaker 2: looking at the Solar System for my entire life. If
[16:54] Speaker 2: I tell you I'm looking at Jupiter, I'm looking at Jupiter.
[16:57] Speaker 2: And when your spacecraft gets there, you'll see that there
[17:00] Speaker 2: are large ice rinks around Jupiter, much larger than around Saturn.
[17:06] Speaker 2: And seven months later the space draft out to Jupiter
[17:12] Speaker 2: and they sit back pictures showing the ice rings. Now,
[17:17] Speaker 2: there a number of things interesting about that crucial. It's
[17:20] Speaker 2: interesting that Ingo could just put down a cigar and
[17:25] Speaker 2: draw a picture of what's going on at Jupiter, with
[17:28] Speaker 2: no preamble, no meditation, just what he wants to see,
[17:34] Speaker 2: and I'll draw it for you. The other thing that's
[17:37] Speaker 2: very interesting is that he told us at once what
[17:43] Speaker 2: he sees the Jupiter, and that turned out to be correct.
[17:46] Speaker 2: That is there there are a couple of very large
[17:50] Speaker 2: ice rings around Jupiter that no one knew about, and
[17:54] Speaker 2: Ingo drew pictures of those and I show that all
[17:59] Speaker 2: in my book Third I Spies. I show Ingo's picture
[18:03] Speaker 2: of the ice rings. And what's interesting for a physicist
[18:09] Speaker 2: is that Ingo is they able to close their eyes
[18:13] Speaker 2: and within a couple of minutes tell us what you
[18:18] Speaker 2: see the Jupiter. Now, Jupiter is five hundred million miles away,
[18:25] Speaker 2: and if you're counting, that would be forty forty light seconds.
[18:33] Speaker 2: It takes light forty I misspoke forty ice minutes, so
[18:38] Speaker 2: it takes forty minutes for light to come from Jupiter
[18:45] Speaker 2: to the Earth. But Ingo is able to do that
[18:48] Speaker 2: at once. So in modern physics, there is evidence within
[18:54] Speaker 2: modern physics that thing's going to be intense, angled and
[19:01] Speaker 2: communicating faster than the speed of life. But to the
[19:07] Speaker 2: strong feeling in the pithlic community that you cannot use
[19:15] Speaker 2: modern quantum physics to send messages. And the reason they
[19:19] Speaker 2: want reason they can't accept that is that Ingo send
[19:23] Speaker 2: us a message way faster than the speed of light,
[19:28] Speaker 2: and that gives a great heartburn professional physicist. But there's
[19:36] Speaker 2: no doubt about the experiment we did. It was very simple, Ingle,
[19:40] Speaker 2: tell us what's going on Jupiter. We know that it's
[19:45] Speaker 2: five hundred million miles away and it takes life forty
[19:50] Speaker 2: minutes to get to us. But you can just write
[19:53] Speaker 2: down right now a piece of paper what you see.
[20:01] Speaker 2: And he did that and that took him no time
[20:04] Speaker 2: at all. Now, so what's clear is that for psychic
[20:09] Speaker 2: ability there is no distance then as you're a the universe.
[20:15] Speaker 2: For consciousness is there is always a path from one
[20:21] Speaker 2: place through another, and you can find a path of
[20:26] Speaker 2: zero distance. So answer your question, it's no harder to
[20:31] Speaker 2: describe what's going on on Jupiter than it is to
[20:35] Speaker 2: describe what's going on in Colorado.
[20:39] Speaker 1: Now, what about past and future events? Who have the
[20:43] Speaker 1: ability to foresee future events even or past events with
[20:48] Speaker 1: this technique as well?
[20:50] Speaker 2: That's right. Shortly after I left SRI, I want people
[20:55] Speaker 2: always say, well, what's this good for you? You're not
[21:00] Speaker 2: looking for kidnapped CI agent said anymore, what are you
[21:05] Speaker 2: going to do with this? And I said, Uh. I
[21:09] Speaker 2: had formed an organization called Delphi Associates, and I was
[21:14] Speaker 2: had the idea that we could use this UH for
[21:18] Speaker 2: looking into the future of the stock market. So, working
[21:23] Speaker 2: with the experienced psychic at Keith Harri, we decided that
[21:31] Speaker 2: we would try and forecast changes in the silver commodity
[21:35] Speaker 2: market so that uh, we can't We couldn't ask him
[21:42] Speaker 2: to look at the big board, the commodity exchange board
[21:47] Speaker 2: in New York. I could say, Keith, here we are
[21:50] Speaker 2: in California, look at look at the commodity exchange board
[21:54] Speaker 2: in Wall Street. That's that is not possible to do
[21:58] Speaker 2: with ESB, because you can do all things with thanking abilities,
[22:03] Speaker 2: but you can't read in general that some people can read,
[22:09] Speaker 2: most people cannot read. So we had to create a
[22:14] Speaker 2: kind of code, which our friend Stephen Schwartz invented the
[22:19] Speaker 2: idea of substituting objects for what you want to know.
[22:27] Speaker 2: That is to say, the broker will choose four objects.
[22:33] Speaker 2: Let's say he'll look around at the office and say
[22:37] Speaker 2: I see a plant, I see a cup of coffee,
[22:41] Speaker 2: I see a lamp, and my leftover pancake for breakfast.
[22:47] Speaker 2: Those are by four objects. And he agreed. He plans
[22:52] Speaker 2: that each of those stands for up, a little up,
[22:58] Speaker 2: a lot down, a little out a law. So it's
[23:02] Speaker 2: an arbitrary arbitrary assignment. Nobody in the world knows what
[23:07] Speaker 2: he's done there, so he I know that he's done that.
[23:12] Speaker 2: I will sit with Harari at my kitchen table. And
[23:17] Speaker 2: we did this nine times in a row successfully and
[23:22] Speaker 2: made a quarter million dollars in the market and the
[23:25] Speaker 2: pub published in Wall Street Journal. So what my friend,
[23:29] Speaker 2: my partner has to do, as I say, I'm going
[23:35] Speaker 2: to give you something next. Here we are on Monday.
[23:40] Speaker 2: I'm going to give you in your hand something next Monday.
[23:45] Speaker 2: We're not talking about stock market, we're not talking about prices.
[23:49] Speaker 2: We want to just focus on what he's going to experience.
[23:54] Speaker 2: So I'm going to give you I said, I got
[23:56] Speaker 2: to give you something interesting in your hand. Properly would
[24:00] Speaker 2: be a Friday to Friday. That what we did next Friday.
[24:06] Speaker 2: I had to put something in your hand and uh interesting,
[24:13] Speaker 2: an usual object. What do you experience? He said, Well, what?
[24:19] Speaker 2: I look what I There's something round and kind of floppy.
[24:24] Speaker 2: It's got a bad smell. And that's basically what I
[24:28] Speaker 2: get is the round, floppy thing with a bad smell.
[24:33] Speaker 2: That would be a I could as an interviewer. I
[24:36] Speaker 2: would recognize that as a good description because that's quite unusual.
[24:41] Speaker 2: They're all a straight you. You would rarely have a
[24:45] Speaker 2: person say that. So I said, okay, okay, Keith, I'll
[24:50] Speaker 2: see it next Friday, and I'll have an interesting object
[24:53] Speaker 2: for you. So I then called John and marin California,
[24:57] Speaker 2: the broker, and and I tell him I got an
[25:01] Speaker 2: interesting description. What are your four objects? He said, I
[25:06] Speaker 2: got a plant, I got a cup of coffee, I
[25:09] Speaker 2: have a light bulb, and I got my leftover pancake
[25:13] Speaker 2: for breakfast. And I said, well, it sounds to me
[25:19] Speaker 2: like he's describing your leftover pancake. What do you think
[25:23] Speaker 2: He said, That's what it sounds like to me, And well,
[25:26] Speaker 2: what does that mean on my table this week? A
[25:33] Speaker 2: leftover pancake associated with down a loft because associative or
[25:41] Speaker 2: motio aid. Because he's not doing anything in the market.
[25:47] Speaker 2: All he wants to do is tell me what are
[25:48] Speaker 2: you going to give him next Friday. So the association
[25:54] Speaker 2: of what he said is with the idea of the
[25:58] Speaker 2: market going down. So based on that, we sold thirty
[26:05] Speaker 2: thousand dollars worth of silver and the market went down.
[26:10] Speaker 2: We were going We're going against the Hunts brothers who
[26:14] Speaker 2: were buying silver, so that that was one of our
[26:17] Speaker 2: biggest hits. So out of the nine trials we got,
[26:23] Speaker 2: we did Harari correctly described all all nine. Seven of
[26:32] Speaker 2: them were executed as transfers. The broker didn't. The broker
[26:40] Speaker 2: passed on two of them, which were correct. Otherwise we'd
[26:44] Speaker 2: have had ten for ten because in two of the cases,
[26:49] Speaker 2: what Harari was forecasting was so far from what a
[26:55] Speaker 2: broker would do on that day that he couldn't go
[26:59] Speaker 2: against it. The broker sitting there spending money from our foundation,
[27:07] Speaker 2: people were giving us money, and he said, I can't.
[27:12] Speaker 2: I can't go into the market on this day selling
[27:15] Speaker 2: silver when it's obvious that it's going to go up.
[27:19] Speaker 2: So on two of the days we were out of
[27:24] Speaker 2: the market because the broker didn't want to be in
[27:27] Speaker 2: the market. But on all seven days when we were
[27:31] Speaker 2: in the market were correct and we made two hundred
[27:35] Speaker 2: and fifty thousand dollars for our seven trials.
[27:40] Speaker 1: I'd love to get your insights into the different types
[27:44] Speaker 1: and techniques used for remote viewing, such as controlled remote
[27:49] Speaker 1: viewing versus the other types that you were just describing.
[27:55] Speaker 2: What I'm describing is what I did in the last
[28:00] Speaker 2: for a decade that I was sort of push pushed
[28:06] Speaker 2: into the lab is. I worked first of all with
[28:10] Speaker 2: Pat Price, who did not need any instructions, and I
[28:16] Speaker 2: just made up what to do with him. That I
[28:20] Speaker 2: had studied psychology and so and so I had an
[28:25] Speaker 2: idea of how you work with a person, honoring him
[28:31] Speaker 2: and respecting what he says instead of jellying him around.
[28:40] Speaker 2: But I had no training for doing remote view age.
[28:43] Speaker 2: Just that have made it up. I'm what I'm describing
[28:46] Speaker 2: here today is what I think it was ordinary remote viewing.
[28:51] Speaker 2: Ordinary remote viewing means that Path Price or some other
[28:57] Speaker 2: persons sitting with me, and I asked him, what are
[29:02] Speaker 2: you experiencing? That? That was my version of remote viewing.
[29:08] Speaker 2: Now Ingo wanted to sort of own remote viewing. He
[29:16] Speaker 2: wanted to produce something that would be really a guidebook
[29:21] Speaker 2: that was Ingoswan's way of doing this, that he could
[29:25] Speaker 2: give to the Army when we eventually were working with
[29:29] Speaker 2: the Army training recruits how to do remote viewing. So
[29:35] Speaker 2: Ingo made a guidebook which became controlled remote Viewing, which
[29:40] Speaker 2: is much more complicated than what I'm describing. So INGOs
[29:50] Speaker 2: INGOs Well, guys, you're controller remote viewing is they so
[29:58] Speaker 2: quantized version of what I just told you that they
[30:03] Speaker 2: want to know? Ah, does this feel heavy? What color
[30:08] Speaker 2: is this? How do you feel about it? The whole
[30:13] Speaker 2: whole group of questions in numerical order that you could
[30:22] Speaker 2: ask a person, all of which would fall out of
[30:27] Speaker 2: what I'm asking him. But this control remote viewing come
[30:34] Speaker 2: allows you to have a book, and that government says
[30:39] Speaker 2: here's here's the government way to do remote viewing. Ingo
[30:43] Speaker 2: is happy because he there's something there that he can own. HM.
[30:49] Speaker 2: So controlled remote that I offered to have a esp
[30:57] Speaker 2: off with any of the people trained with remote viewing,
[31:03] Speaker 2: I said, well, why did we Why do we have
[31:06] Speaker 2: a contest. We'll get We'll get some person who you've
[31:12] Speaker 2: trained with your scheme and let them walk into my
[31:16] Speaker 2: office and I'll do what I do and we'll see
[31:20] Speaker 2: who does better. And nobody wanted to do that. So
[31:25] Speaker 2: the control remote basically remote viewing is just sort of
[31:29] Speaker 2: describe to you is a other form if you if
[31:35] Speaker 2: you wanted to work, you don't ask the person ah two,
[31:43] Speaker 2: describe the thing or describe the place you ask them to.
[31:49] Speaker 2: You set the stage so the describing their experience.
[31:54] Speaker 1: Now, would you say that anybody has the ability to
[31:57] Speaker 1: do this, do you have a higher potential if you
[32:01] Speaker 1: have tendencies for other psychic or consciousness abilities.
[32:09] Speaker 2: You'll do better if you're willing to be psyched. What
[32:15] Speaker 2: one of my favorite that I worked with dozens of
[32:20] Speaker 2: people in my little office. I was sitting like the
[32:23] Speaker 2: oracle of Menlo Park on the top floor of the
[32:27] Speaker 2: Radiophysics building, and they would bring me people and I
[32:31] Speaker 2: would show them one after another how to do remote viewing.
[32:35] Speaker 2: This could be there. We started out with our ordinary
[32:42] Speaker 2: people who are around SRI some of them very talented,
[32:47] Speaker 2: like Path Price with psychic policemen, and he was actually
[32:52] Speaker 2: able to look into a building at the NSA and
[33:01] Speaker 2: describe what was inside the building and actually read some
[33:04] Speaker 2: file cards with the names of top secrets ongoing programs
[33:11] Speaker 2: and then excited people very greatly because these were ongoing
[33:16] Speaker 2: programs and it isn't like the idea of the secrecy
[33:22] Speaker 2: being broken. The Price was a very unusual person, but
[33:27] Speaker 2: by and large, to start the program, we were where
[33:33] Speaker 2: we were teaching army recruits how to do remote viewing.
[33:38] Speaker 2: That was part of the.
[33:43] Speaker 3: Ah.
[33:46] Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure there's fifty years ago the inscome
[33:53] Speaker 2: intell that I was trying to remember the name INSCOM,
[33:57] Speaker 2: which the intelligence command. I had officers from Inscom and
[34:04] Speaker 2: Fort Meade, and I was showing them how to do
[34:09] Speaker 2: remote viewing. And I had six people that we chose
[34:14] Speaker 2: from an interview and four of them did excellently and
[34:20] Speaker 2: two of them never figured it out. So it's not
[34:24] Speaker 2: that everybody in the world can do excellently, but the
[34:28] Speaker 2: fact that we had six people where I chose the
[34:34] Speaker 2: flor of the gymnasium and four of them did excellently.
[34:39] Speaker 2: What that means is that they described five or six
[34:47] Speaker 2: out of six targets they found. They are able to
[34:50] Speaker 2: describe somebody hiding in a double blind way that I
[34:55] Speaker 2: didn't know, that I never know the answer, that doesn't
[35:02] Speaker 2: need to experiment that it is double blind, and that
[35:04] Speaker 2: I'm the interviewer. And see if you're sitting with me
[35:11] Speaker 2: and your friend has been taken away, and you want
[35:15] Speaker 2: to know where is Joe? Where is Joe? And the
[35:18] Speaker 2: question of the day, hey day? And I don't know
[35:22] Speaker 2: where Joe is, And my job is to help you
[35:25] Speaker 2: describe where your friend is, but I'm always blind as
[35:30] Speaker 2: to where the where the answer is Consequently, if you
[35:36] Speaker 2: say Joe's going to Macy's, I know that doesn't sound
[35:42] Speaker 2: like remote viewing. Its sounds like a guess you're naming something.
[35:48] Speaker 2: And I say, now, let's let's I won't say that's wrong.
[35:53] Speaker 2: I'll just say that doesn't sound like a remote viewing.
[35:56] Speaker 2: Let's let's start over, and I'll say, all, what do
[36:00] Speaker 2: you experience that makes you say Macy's. And you will
[36:04] Speaker 2: then go back and tell me what you're experiencing and
[36:09] Speaker 2: we can get to the right answer. So the interviewer
[36:14] Speaker 2: has a keen ear for what remote viewing sounds like,
[36:19] Speaker 2: so I may so even though I never know the answer.
[36:23] Speaker 2: I mean, they could be at a bridge, or a
[36:25] Speaker 2: bowling alley, or a park or anything. I have no
[36:30] Speaker 2: idea what. Palo Alto Bay area is full of interesting bridges, rivers,
[36:38] Speaker 2: all kinds of stuff, so it could be anything at
[36:42] Speaker 2: all in a community full of rivers and bridges. So
[36:50] Speaker 2: I have no idea where they are, but I know
[36:54] Speaker 2: what I know what remote viewings sounds like, so I'm
[36:58] Speaker 2: able to help them. I did that right. I did
[37:04] Speaker 2: that right up to the under Secretary of Defense, who
[37:07] Speaker 2: is going to support our idea of creating an army
[37:13] Speaker 2: psychic corps. So he said, I want to see something.
[37:17] Speaker 2: This is Laberge under Secretary of Defense. He said, I
[37:22] Speaker 2: want to see something psychic. So he came to my
[37:24] Speaker 2: lab and what he had in mind is that Ingo
[37:28] Speaker 2: or Pat Price would do a revote view for him.
[37:32] Speaker 2: And I explained to him that if Ingo doesn't revote
[37:36] Speaker 2: viewing or where you're hiding, you're going to think of
[37:41] Speaker 2: the trick. But if you describe where Ingo, if you
[37:46] Speaker 2: describe where Major is hiding, you'll know it's not a
[37:51] Speaker 2: trick because your experience. And so I did that with
[37:55] Speaker 2: the other secretary, and he did a very good job.
[37:58] Speaker 2: He's also circular building made of bricks. And in fact
[38:04] Speaker 2: they had gone to an art institute and that one
[38:10] Speaker 2: town north of us, and it was a sort of
[38:13] Speaker 2: art plaza and everybody was sitting around drinking coffee by
[38:18] Speaker 2: this fountain, which was a circle made of bricks. So
[38:23] Speaker 2: he was very impressed. He compared compared his drawing with
[38:28] Speaker 2: the thing they were looking at. He said that they
[38:31] Speaker 2: mashed echollently and he gave us the money to start
[38:37] Speaker 2: the Stargate program.
[38:42] Speaker 1: Now, am I correct in saying that at some point
[38:45] Speaker 1: the CIA was attempting to integrate substances like LSD into
[38:51] Speaker 1: these studies.
[38:54] Speaker 2: Yes, at the very beginning we met with Sid Gottlieb,
[38:59] Speaker 2: with the godfather of the Ultra mk Ultu program. Yeah,
[39:10] Speaker 2: and he said people would be doing much better if
[39:15] Speaker 2: you gain the LSD as much easier to hallucinate. And
[39:20] Speaker 2: I said, this, that's true. It'll create lots of pictures.
[39:26] Speaker 2: To give marijuana also will create lots of pictures, But
[39:30] Speaker 2: we don't want lots of pictures, will you could? The
[39:35] Speaker 2: skill element of remote doing is separating the psychic signal
[39:39] Speaker 2: from the metal noise. And if you give people something
[39:43] Speaker 2: like LSD, they lose their analytic ability and go off
[39:48] Speaker 2: into dreamland. And we don't want them in dreamland. We
[39:52] Speaker 2: want the psychic to be able to have information flowing in,
[40:04] Speaker 2: but not overwhelmed with all kinds of crazy things that
[40:09] Speaker 2: don't pertain to what he wants is what he wants
[40:12] Speaker 2: to see. Giving a person LSD was hugely increased the noise,
[40:18] Speaker 2: but not help with the signal. And I explained that
[40:21] Speaker 2: to Sid Gottlieb, who, apart from being a notorious torturer,
[40:28] Speaker 2: who is a very nice guy. We enjoyed sitting around
[40:31] Speaker 2: with him like my old uncle Sid the basement of
[40:35] Speaker 2: the CIA, surrounded by books, so he puffs his pipe there.
[40:41] Speaker 2: Quite amiable, knowledgeable, well read person. And I spent his
[40:48] Speaker 2: life torturing people. That's too bad. But he was very
[40:53] Speaker 2: supportive of our program, and he was really the one
[40:58] Speaker 2: who was pushing LSD. And I said, from my experience
[41:02] Speaker 2: with the LSD, that's the outfens of what we want
[41:05] Speaker 2: to do. And he understood that. He was familiar with
[41:10] Speaker 2: the idea of states of consciousness. So we never gave
[41:15] Speaker 2: UH and we never gave any kind of drugs to
[41:19] Speaker 2: our people at all.
[41:22] Speaker 1: Now, what was go ahead.
[41:26] Speaker 2: I had from my own experience. I was given some
[41:32] Speaker 2: marijuana which very highly recommended, somebody special marijuana and this
[41:40] Speaker 2: is this is really the best indicus, the best thing
[41:44] Speaker 2: you've ever sived. So I said, oh, that's terrific. I'll
[41:47] Speaker 2: try that. And somebody goes hide someplace and it's totally
[41:53] Speaker 2: overwhelmed with a picture show. And I felt very disappointed
[41:58] Speaker 2: and kind of angry that. But with learning experience that
[42:04] Speaker 2: us powerful marijuana will cover your stream with all kinds
[42:11] Speaker 2: of pictures, no doubt about it. For those pictures don't
[42:17] Speaker 2: don't necessarily continue where the versus is hiding.
[42:22] Speaker 1: Would you say that the ability to meditate and put
[42:25] Speaker 1: yourself into these altered states of consciousness without the effects
[42:31] Speaker 1: of drugs or outside substances is key to being able
[42:36] Speaker 1: to achieve these abilities of remote viewing as well.
[42:41] Speaker 2: I would say being able to quiet your mind is helpful.
[42:46] Speaker 2: People don't have to meditate. If a person that experience meditator,
[42:51] Speaker 2: he's going to be able to quiet his mind. At
[42:55] Speaker 2: one point to have our laboratory wanted to want me
[43:04] Speaker 2: to do remote viewing with a famous physicist, Jack Keen Ronolf,
[43:11] Speaker 2: the famous Nobel candidate from Israel who had done very
[43:17] Speaker 2: interesting experiments with David Bohm. So I Roanolf was sitting
[43:27] Speaker 2: with me in my quiet little lab and the head
[43:33] Speaker 2: of our lab went to hide someplace with help put
[43:37] Speaker 2: off my partner, and I was sitting with a runoff
[43:41] Speaker 2: and said, you know we're doing Your friend is hiding
[43:47] Speaker 2: someplace in the Bay area. And he said, well, let
[43:50] Speaker 2: me tell you at the beginning when I closed my
[43:52] Speaker 2: eyes is dark. I don't know how it is for you.
[43:57] Speaker 2: So I said, well, can you describe, vibeh, what image
[44:04] Speaker 2: has come to pass. He said, you don't understand. I
[44:07] Speaker 2: have told you there are any image, it's just dark.
[44:10] Speaker 2: And we did that for about half an hour and
[44:14] Speaker 2: I said, well they're coming back now. Why don't you
[44:19] Speaker 2: just free associate. Pretend you pretend you can see something.
[44:25] Speaker 2: You can do that, right, Just pretend you see something
[44:29] Speaker 2: and tell me about that. He said, well, it's really
[44:35] Speaker 2: a remote viewing. What I suddenly see a couple of
[44:42] Speaker 2: ducks walking across my field of view, Like my mother
[44:47] Speaker 2: had a duck farm in Israel, and this reminds me
[44:51] Speaker 2: of her duck farm. And I said, well that's great.
[44:54] Speaker 2: Can you draw me a duck? Yeah, I can do that.
[45:00] Speaker 2: And twenty minutes later they came back until the said
[45:03] Speaker 2: gone to the panel duckbond. So in the case where
[45:09] Speaker 2: the guy is not a meditator, not interested in the
[45:12] Speaker 2: sp it's pre hostile to the whole idea, but he's
[45:18] Speaker 2: now not stupidly hostile. He sort of understands as physicists
[45:27] Speaker 2: make a Physicists are often very good remote viewers because
[45:31] Speaker 2: they could follow instructions that he didn't believe in anything
[45:37] Speaker 2: what we're doing, but he could follow instructions, so in
[45:44] Speaker 2: a way that in a way. That's one of my
[45:46] Speaker 2: favorite experiments because he was He was not an experienced meditator,
[45:54] Speaker 2: He was not interested in the sp He thought the
[45:57] Speaker 2: whole thing was nonsense. But remote viewing is such a
[46:03] Speaker 2: natural ability that he was able to follow my instructions. Now.
[46:09] Speaker 1: Earlier, when we first started, you had mentioned how interesting
[46:13] Speaker 1: a time we are because of the revelations and disclosure
[46:18] Speaker 1: about possibilities of extraterrestrials and UFOs. Throughout your history of
[46:25] Speaker 1: being involved with remote viewers, have you had many experiences
[46:30] Speaker 1: where they have picked up on extraterrestrials or non human intelligences.
[46:39] Speaker 2: No, we have not had that. An order for that
[46:43] Speaker 2: to happen, I would have to ask them push them
[46:47] Speaker 2: in that direction. Because where there a Raggerian scape where
[46:56] Speaker 2: the person settles down at his we went agreement that
[47:02] Speaker 2: I will honor what he's doing and he will try
[47:04] Speaker 2: and do what I tell him to do. So path
[47:12] Speaker 2: Price once said, you know, I often see UFO bases,
[47:21] Speaker 2: and I can tell you where there's some UFO bases.
[47:26] Speaker 2: There's one on the mountain in Alaska, there's another one
[47:30] Speaker 2: in Brazil, another one in Australia. And he worked those
[47:36] Speaker 2: out and we gave those the CIA, and they said,
[47:40] Speaker 2: three of your four places we were already considering as
[47:45] Speaker 2: the basis for UFOs so well. Path Price was exceptionally
[47:54] Speaker 2: good remote viewer in that he was the only one
[47:58] Speaker 2: we've ever had who was able to read things. We
[48:06] Speaker 2: were well into the program and our physician monitored contract
[48:13] Speaker 2: when Kit Green said, can't you get somebody who had
[48:18] Speaker 2: never done this before? Can you get a control? And
[48:23] Speaker 2: I said, yeah, I can get somebody, And I asked
[48:26] Speaker 2: my friend Hala Ahmed, who was a very successful professional photographer,
[48:34] Speaker 2: had done a lot of that made films travel all
[48:36] Speaker 2: over the world, very world worldly wise woman, and she
[48:46] Speaker 2: just thought it would be a hoot, very very amusing
[48:52] Speaker 2: Jacana Palo Alto and be a psychic spife for the
[48:55] Speaker 2: CIA and be paid for that. That would be a
[48:59] Speaker 2: whole newspearance for her. And she promised me she'd never
[49:03] Speaker 2: done anything like that before. And we did experiments like
[49:09] Speaker 2: what we did with Pat Price. In the help. Put
[49:13] Speaker 2: off would hide himself at a random place in the
[49:17] Speaker 2: Bay Area and she would have to describe where he
[49:22] Speaker 2: was so somebody could match up his description against where
[49:30] Speaker 2: he actually was. And a random task that I would
[49:36] Speaker 2: give you nine drawings of places where you might be hidden,
[49:45] Speaker 2: and you'd have to match shows up as best you
[49:48] Speaker 2: could against where you actually were. And it turned out
[49:55] Speaker 2: the Hell did that better than anybody else we've ever seen.
[50:00] Speaker 2: The point of the Hell up was a control subject
[50:03] Speaker 2: never did this before. She was sophisticated, so she understood
[50:08] Speaker 2: what we're doing. What we were trying to do made
[50:14] Speaker 2: sense to her, but she had never done anything like
[50:17] Speaker 2: that before. But in a formal, numerically evaluated scheme, she
[50:25] Speaker 2: did better than the most psychic person we ever saw.
[50:29] Speaker 2: With Pat Price. Pat Price gets the RAKE rating of
[50:33] Speaker 2: the best ever because he could read alphabet read alphabets
[50:39] Speaker 2: and nobody else could do that.
[50:42] Speaker 1: I don't remember the guest name that I had on,
[50:45] Speaker 1: but they were speaking about remote viewing, attempting to remote
[50:49] Speaker 1: view highly secure locations like within the White House and
[50:54] Speaker 1: having some sort of block by a presence there that
[50:59] Speaker 1: was protecting that area astrally. Is this something that you're
[51:03] Speaker 1: familiar with?
[51:07] Speaker 2: I understand what you're saying. I did not have that experience. Now,
[51:15] Speaker 2: the early experiment we did with Price, he was just
[51:19] Speaker 2: given coordinates, geographical coordinates, and we described just drifting up
[51:28] Speaker 2: of the air and five thousand feet below him, he
[51:34] Speaker 2: saw this army base. He just drifted in. The army
[51:38] Speaker 2: base he saw was the Sugar Grove facility of the NSA,
[51:45] Speaker 2: which is probably and then one of the most secret
[51:48] Speaker 2: things in America. With the top secret facility used for
[51:54] Speaker 2: snooping on the Russians. We were listening in Russian signals.
[52:00] Speaker 2: It's off the moon. And the fact that Price could
[52:04] Speaker 2: drift into the basement of that place and read off
[52:09] Speaker 2: the cards enumerting the names of ongoing projects was enough
[52:16] Speaker 2: to totally freak out the people who are running that.
[52:21] Speaker 2: In fact, after he did that, we got to visit
[52:25] Speaker 2: at Sri Stanford. Reather Institute got a visit from the
[52:32] Speaker 2: security of the NSA who came to visit us with
[52:37] Speaker 2: the CIA people who gave us the coordinates. NSA was
[52:42] Speaker 2: very angry with the CIA. Why are you targeting these
[52:47] Speaker 2: California psychics on the most secure thing in the whole NSA.
[52:54] Speaker 3: Hmm.
[52:55] Speaker 2: And then and the cordin as we were given where
[53:02] Speaker 2: we're actually we a log cabin down the road from
[53:09] Speaker 2: this building. It was the building the hilly area and
[53:16] Speaker 2: the CIA co Worderness were over the hill, so as
[53:24] Speaker 2: we were all together, the CIA guy and the NSA
[53:28] Speaker 2: guy and Hal and me and had Price. They turned
[53:33] Speaker 2: the price and said, why did you describe our underground
[53:39] Speaker 2: facility where you're target was actually a log cabin, And
[53:45] Speaker 2: Price said, well, the way it works in my and
[53:49] Speaker 2: my way of thinking, my experience, the more you hide something,
[53:54] Speaker 2: the more it shines like a beacon in psychic space.
[53:59] Speaker 1: The last few minutes we have, let's talk a little
[54:02] Speaker 1: bit about what you offer people. In the book, you
[54:05] Speaker 1: actually teach basic techniques on how folks can do this themselves.
[54:10] Speaker 2: Right, yeah, right now. If you go to the internet
[54:14] Speaker 2: look up remote viewing, you'll find that a dozens of
[54:19] Speaker 2: perhaps hundreds of people are teaching remote viewing and charging
[54:25] Speaker 2: thousands of dollars to do that. And it's not that
[54:30] Speaker 2: difficult as the natural ability. It's like charging people to writing.
[54:36] Speaker 2: A unicycle looks like an impossible thing to do, but
[54:41] Speaker 2: some people can. Just My daughter had very good balance,
[54:45] Speaker 2: and a five year old like a unicycle. She rode
[54:50] Speaker 2: off and took her road to school on a unicycle.
[54:56] Speaker 2: So I put on it and gave her a push.
[55:01] Speaker 2: But I didn't teach her to do anything. And the
[55:04] Speaker 2: remote viewing is like that. Ah, many people just take
[55:11] Speaker 2: to it immediately and you just tell them what to
[55:16] Speaker 2: do and they do it. Other people have to be
[55:20] Speaker 2: to coax along. Now, I remember what you're what.
[55:27] Speaker 1: Is in your book? You you you actually give people
[55:31] Speaker 1: basic techniques to do this on their own.
[55:33] Speaker 2: Oh, that's that's the idea that It sort of annoys
[55:38] Speaker 2: me that people are are charging lots of money to
[55:43] Speaker 2: do something which is a natural ability. That is that
[55:50] Speaker 2: you get at a cocktail party or any quiet place.
[55:55] Speaker 2: You can sit down with a person, any quiet location
[56:00] Speaker 2: and make it clear this is not a test. You're
[56:05] Speaker 2: not testing them to see if they're psychic. You know
[56:08] Speaker 2: that this is something that human beings they are able
[56:11] Speaker 2: to do. And if you set the stage properly, people
[56:16] Speaker 2: can do this just because you set the use as
[56:20] Speaker 2: the stage correctly and are asking them to describe their
[56:25] Speaker 2: experience rather than tell me about the building. So I somehow,
[56:35] Speaker 2: maybe from my psychological training in college, I had the
[56:43] Speaker 2: idea of what you should be saying to a person
[56:48] Speaker 2: to empower them, to give them the ability to do that.
[56:55] Speaker 2: So I basically have spent the past fifty years. After
[57:00] Speaker 2: after that, I I went I had a friend in Italy,
[57:06] Speaker 2: So my wife and I would go to Italy in
[57:11] Speaker 2: the summertime, and we did that for five years. Each
[57:17] Speaker 2: summer I would go to a public meeting that was
[57:21] Speaker 2: being held by a astrology organization. So I'd have a
[57:27] Speaker 2: room full of nice looking melanaisy women in their cute
[57:33] Speaker 2: black dresses and very enthusiastic, and they did very, very well.
[57:41] Speaker 2: In fact, the Italian women did better than any group
[57:46] Speaker 2: that I'd ever worked with, except maybe for the American
[57:51] Speaker 2: Dowsing Society. The old men and the overalls were professional dowsers,
[57:58] Speaker 2: did as well as the melon lay women. And my
[58:04] Speaker 2: last time, my last visit to Ly with a cleanary session,
[58:09] Speaker 2: and I told them this story. I said, you know,
[58:12] Speaker 2: I've been here now five times over the last five years,
[58:17] Speaker 2: and you will do better than any other group outside
[58:21] Speaker 2: of the professional psychics. Why do you think that the
[58:25] Speaker 2: Italian women are so successful? And women held up her
[58:30] Speaker 2: hands and said, that's very easy to understand. Everybody knows
[58:35] Speaker 2: the Italian women are the most beautiful and the most sexy.
[58:39] Speaker 2: Why shouldn't they be the most psychic. And I think
[58:44] Speaker 2: in a way that's a hidden explanation that these are
[58:50] Speaker 2: these women are tough, They're used to getting their own way.
[58:54] Speaker 2: They're very have very high self confidence. Where I can say,
[59:01] Speaker 2: the women in Silicon Valley where I live, if you
[59:04] Speaker 2: give them a test like this the view of the test,
[59:08] Speaker 2: am I going to be able to pass? Muster where
[59:11] Speaker 2: the Italian women assume that if I'm asking them to
[59:15] Speaker 2: do something that they they will be able to do that,
[59:19] Speaker 2: and they did, I'll say, and oh I did five.
[59:27] Speaker 2: I won't be going to a number. I did five
[59:30] Speaker 2: formal visits to Italy and all five of those were
[59:35] Speaker 2: independently statistically significant. So if I were trying to get
[59:40] Speaker 2: pH PhD in psychology and remote viewing, these double blind
[59:46] Speaker 2: experiments with the Italian women would be significant at one
[59:51] Speaker 2: in a million.
[59:54] Speaker 1: Excellent. Well, mister Targa, thank you so much. And this
[59:58] Speaker 1: book is amazing. For people that want to pick it up,
[1:00:01] Speaker 1: I'll have the link right in the description. They can
[1:00:04] Speaker 1: just click it and order it from there, but they
[1:00:05] Speaker 1: can also get it from Amazon.
[1:00:07] Speaker 3: Is that right?
[1:00:09] Speaker 2: That's right?
[1:00:10] Speaker 1: Excellent? Go kick up that book. Thank you so much
[1:00:13] Speaker 1: for coming on, mister targ I'd love to speak with
[1:00:16] Speaker 1: you again in the future. There's much more we could discuss.
[1:00:20] Speaker 2: Book is called Third Eye Spies is the same name
[1:00:24] Speaker 2: as a two hour movie I was called Third Eye Spies,
[1:00:30] Speaker 2: which we made because they able to get ken Cress
[1:00:36] Speaker 2: and Kiss read for the CIA. I got the two
[1:00:39] Speaker 2: CIA guys on screen saying yes, I worked with targ
[1:00:45] Speaker 2: and what he describes actually happened and it was actually
[1:00:51] Speaker 2: useful to us at the CIA. This stuff really works,
[1:00:56] Speaker 2: and I thought so. I thought it was so unusual
[1:00:59] Speaker 2: to get this. It's THEIA to endorse anything that is
[1:01:03] Speaker 2: worth making a movie.
[1:01:05] Speaker 1: Definitely, yes, check out the movie, check out the book,
[1:01:09] Speaker 1: mister talk. Thank you so much. We will definitely talk
[1:01:12] Speaker 1: again in the future. And until next time, everyone, have
[1:01:15] Speaker 1: an excellent evening. We will talk again tomorrow.
[1:01:19] Speaker 2: See thanks. Thanks.
[1:01:21] Speaker 1: Today, I want to welcome back to the show Birch Driver.
[1:01:25] Speaker 1: He is a nerd jock, philosopher and host of the
[1:01:28] Speaker 1: Green Night podcast. Birch Welcome back. How you doing.
[1:01:34] Speaker 3: Really good? Chris, Thanks for having me back on. It's
[1:01:36] Speaker 3: been a while, a couple of years.
[1:01:40] Speaker 1: Well, welcome back man. It's great to have you. Enjoyed
[1:01:43] Speaker 1: our discussion last time. And when I asked you what
[1:01:45] Speaker 1: you wanted to get into today, you offered up the
[1:01:49] Speaker 1: elusive topic of a solution. You and I were just
[1:01:53] Speaker 1: discussing that there is a singular solution to this, and
[1:01:57] Speaker 1: a lot of times we make things more difficult than
[1:02:00] Speaker 1: they have to be. Now, although I do my best
[1:02:04] Speaker 1: to steer every conversation this direction, at some point during
[1:02:09] Speaker 1: the discussion, taking action can prove difficult for some, especially
[1:02:14] Speaker 1: without proper information surrounding the solution. Now, the alternative media
[1:02:21] Speaker 1: has a much wider expanse compared to just a few
[1:02:25] Speaker 1: years ago, and it's even featuring high profile talking heads
[1:02:30] Speaker 1: and media personalities. And I'm not sure how I feel
[1:02:34] Speaker 1: about Tucker Carlson or Candice Owens discussing the nephelum, but
[1:02:38] Speaker 1: shit got beyond strange and especially got away from the
[1:02:45] Speaker 1: original perceived intention of seeking the truth. And we're all
[1:02:50] Speaker 1: over the place now, so there's a lot to get
[1:02:52] Speaker 1: into and we're going to try and simplify it for everyone.
[1:02:56] Speaker 1: But before we do, it's been a while. Like you said,
[1:03:00] Speaker 1: the audience, just a little bit about yourself and your podcast.
[1:03:05] Speaker 3: Yeah, my name is Birch Driver, and I've been on this.
[1:03:10] Speaker 3: I don't like to call it a path, because the
[1:03:13] Speaker 3: truth is a pathless land, right It exists inside each
[1:03:17] Speaker 3: of us, and so it takes no time when there's
[1:03:22] Speaker 3: nowhere to go, right. And so that's what I've discovered
[1:03:25] Speaker 3: over the years. And my podcast started probably three plus
[1:03:28] Speaker 3: years ago, and it's a series, right, so it's not
[1:03:33] Speaker 3: a weekly podcast. It's intended to be listened from the beginning,
[1:03:36] Speaker 3: and it's called Green Night and the whole thing. I
[1:03:40] Speaker 3: begin the first episode talking about how can we solve
[1:03:43] Speaker 3: this problem? Right? And so it's been a journey for
[1:03:49] Speaker 3: myself as I learn more and discover more and actually
[1:03:54] Speaker 3: approach these things that I had in mind when I
[1:03:57] Speaker 3: started from a more expansive and well just that like
[1:04:05] Speaker 3: a larger perspective, you know. And so I've learned a lot,
[1:04:09] Speaker 3: and I've found recently there's this particular way to explain
[1:04:13] Speaker 3: it that I think that makes it more clear. But it's,
[1:04:17] Speaker 3: you know, it's discussing the undiscussable. Really, like what it
[1:04:22] Speaker 3: really comes down to is it's a spiritual endeavor, you know.
[1:04:27] Speaker 3: And so the transcendental, the unseen component of our reality
[1:04:32] Speaker 3: is is difficult to talk about, but words are what
[1:04:36] Speaker 3: we have and the only way out is through, and
[1:04:38] Speaker 3: so that's what we do, you know.
[1:04:40] Speaker 1: Great introduction, and I think we should start with the
[1:04:45] Speaker 1: big overarching problem as we were talking about before. We
[1:04:49] Speaker 1: each have our individual problems and we can nitpick at
[1:04:52] Speaker 1: different angles and different agendas and ideologies, but the big
[1:04:58] Speaker 1: one that affects us all and I I think we
[1:05:00] Speaker 1: can all agree on, is the division and the forced
[1:05:04] Speaker 1: polarities that we're being corralled into. And if you try
[1:05:10] Speaker 1: and take a middle path now in our new era,
[1:05:15] Speaker 1: you become attacked by all the other extreme polarities. So
[1:05:19] Speaker 1: it's a very interesting era that we've entered into, and
[1:05:23] Speaker 1: I'd love to hear your thoughts on that and the
[1:05:27] Speaker 1: possible solution.
[1:05:30] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:05:30] Speaker 3: I mean it's cool that you mentioned division immediately, because
[1:05:34] Speaker 3: that's what I discuss. And so there's a difference between
[1:05:38] Speaker 3: knowing and belief, right, and so everyone has their own
[1:05:41] Speaker 3: belief structure, their own perspective, you know, and it comes
[1:05:45] Speaker 3: from their background and from their experiences, and it becomes
[1:05:51] Speaker 3: their identity, right, one's belief structure, one's belief system. And
[1:05:56] Speaker 3: so I think I feel like when people have a
[1:05:59] Speaker 3: ridge attach themselves to a tribe or to an ideology
[1:06:03] Speaker 3: or a way of thinking, then it becomes their identity.
[1:06:08] Speaker 3: And so when others don't jive with that, then they
[1:06:12] Speaker 3: feel like their identity is being threatened, right, and it's
[1:06:15] Speaker 3: a threat to their perceived existence right there, set there,
[1:06:20] Speaker 3: it's a threat to their sense of self, and so
[1:06:23] Speaker 3: they lash out. They lash out, and you know, to
[1:06:27] Speaker 3: your point about you know, taking the middle way, and
[1:06:32] Speaker 3: it's like you can see things on you know, I
[1:06:35] Speaker 3: just call it left and right at the moment, right
[1:06:38] Speaker 3: where if you talk about certain things that don't go
[1:06:42] Speaker 3: with the ideology of the left, then they immediately place
[1:06:45] Speaker 3: you in the box of the right. And it's not
[1:06:48] Speaker 3: a too sided thing, right, And that's what I get into,
[1:06:53] Speaker 3: is like how this is a dialectical mechanism right that
[1:06:57] Speaker 3: actually drives the wheel of our civilization forward. And so
[1:07:02] Speaker 3: awakening is not necessarily I would I would say it's
[1:07:05] Speaker 3: it's a beginning of the process. But awakening to the
[1:07:09] Speaker 3: fuckery that is going on, the way that we are
[1:07:11] Speaker 3: being screwed, you know, the way that our population is
[1:07:14] Speaker 3: being has been and is enslaved, right, all of the
[1:07:18] Speaker 3: ways that we are being hoodwinked and lied to and stuff.
[1:07:22] Speaker 3: Being becoming aware of that is not necessarily an awakening
[1:07:26] Speaker 3: because you end up choosing a side and getting into
[1:07:29] Speaker 3: this synthetic polarity, right, which is if you oppose something, right,
[1:07:35] Speaker 3: you are that thing that you oppose because you can't
[1:07:39] Speaker 3: define your position without the opposition, right, So suddenly what
[1:07:43] Speaker 3: you're against goes away, then where are you? You know?
[1:07:48] Speaker 3: So you need the other side in order to feel
[1:07:51] Speaker 3: like you have an identity. And so I think that's
[1:07:54] Speaker 3: largely the problem that we have right now, things you know,
[1:07:58] Speaker 3: talking about kind of zones and Carlson, you know, I
[1:08:03] Speaker 3: think these guys are you know, they're fake, right, and
[1:08:06] Speaker 3: they bring in these topics that we've been discussing for
[1:08:11] Speaker 3: you know, a long time, right, and it endears you
[1:08:15] Speaker 3: to them in a way, But it's it's it's just
[1:08:19] Speaker 3: a hook, right, It's just a hook to get you
[1:08:21] Speaker 3: to choose a sidem.
[1:08:24] Speaker 1: For me, starting out looking at the corruption and how
[1:08:29] Speaker 1: I've been deceived and the quote unquote conspiracies led me
[1:08:34] Speaker 1: to a more spiritual understanding. But there's layers to even that.
[1:08:39] Speaker 1: Once you enter into looking at the spiritual aspects of this,
[1:08:43] Speaker 1: there's division within that you tend to be pulled in
[1:08:47] Speaker 1: one direction or another, having going stronger for one spiritual
[1:08:52] Speaker 1: understanding against another, and it becomes territorial, and people's egos
[1:08:58] Speaker 1: get involved, even yes siritual aspects. So again you have
[1:09:03] Speaker 1: to peel through these layers of understanding. And I had
[1:09:06] Speaker 1: to go through it all. I had to be involved
[1:09:09] Speaker 1: in all of the polarities. But for me, just because
[1:09:13] Speaker 1: of the person I am, it was easier for me
[1:09:16] Speaker 1: to navigate through them because I usually take a bigger
[1:09:20] Speaker 1: picture look and I have so many different perspectives that
[1:09:23] Speaker 1: I talk to to this day, there's still more questions
[1:09:29] Speaker 1: than answers that I ever have come up with. But
[1:09:32] Speaker 1: where I'm at now is being aware of the intent
[1:09:37] Speaker 1: to divide and the extreme polarities that were presented on
[1:09:43] Speaker 1: a daily basis, trying to navigate between what we know
[1:09:49] Speaker 1: to be our moral compass versus everything that they're presenting
[1:09:55] Speaker 1: to us, and a lot of people just get lost
[1:09:58] Speaker 1: in the presentation, They get lost in the theatrics, and they
[1:10:01] Speaker 1: get dragged into these polarities, and theater is a huge
[1:10:05] Speaker 1: part of all of this, especially with the politics right now.
[1:10:09] Speaker 1: This is one of the final frontiers for us to
[1:10:13] Speaker 1: get past as far as trusting the system, because there
[1:10:18] Speaker 1: is a lot of people who have awakened to the
[1:10:20] Speaker 1: corruption but they're still trusting one side or another, and
[1:10:25] Speaker 1: it just becomes extremely difficult to navigate, especially if you
[1:10:30] Speaker 1: are involved with any of the mainstream aspects at all.
[1:10:35] Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And it is a theater. It's all just
[1:10:37] Speaker 3: to show both sides are the same side, you know,
[1:10:41] Speaker 3: And it's been set up for us in that way
[1:10:44] Speaker 3: to feel like we have the illusion of choice, like
[1:10:46] Speaker 3: that there's something that actually can be done to fix
[1:10:50] Speaker 3: the system. But you can't fix the system with the system,
[1:10:53] Speaker 3: you know, because it's more of the same. And we
[1:10:56] Speaker 3: see that as a pattern in history, and that's the
[1:10:58] Speaker 3: pattern that I discuss. Our pattern of our civilization is
[1:11:01] Speaker 3: that it is a one side versus the other side, right,
[1:11:08] Speaker 3: and then it comes together in conflict, and then there's
[1:11:11] Speaker 3: a synthesis of both sides. And you can see this,
[1:11:14] Speaker 3: and when one culture conquers another, the cultures merge, right,
[1:11:18] Speaker 3: that's just as an example. But then we see that
[1:11:21] Speaker 3: it starts again all again. It's like the victor then
[1:11:25] Speaker 3: becomes the thesis, and there immediately is a counter thesis
[1:11:29] Speaker 3: or an antithesis to that, and eventually there will be
[1:11:33] Speaker 3: a synthesis after conflict. Right, you see what I'm saying,
[1:11:38] Speaker 3: And so that's what revolution is. I mean, we forget.
[1:11:41] Speaker 3: We want to bandy these words about like there's something
[1:11:44] Speaker 3: they're meaningful, But revolution is just to go around and
[1:11:47] Speaker 3: serve and start again at the beginning. And so we
[1:11:51] Speaker 3: talk about breaking the cycle and the pattern of our civilization.
[1:11:54] Speaker 3: This pattern has been going on for you know, millennium,
[1:11:59] Speaker 3: and this is what I discuss is how do we
[1:12:03] Speaker 3: break this pattern? How do we extricate ourselves from this
[1:12:08] Speaker 3: repeating cycle. Well, a lot of people.
[1:12:10] Speaker 1: Look at the cyclical aspects and how long the possibilities
[1:12:13] Speaker 1: of how it was going on and think, well, this
[1:12:16] Speaker 1: is too big for us to fix. This is something
[1:12:19] Speaker 1: innately ingrained in our human experience and.
[1:12:22] Speaker 3: It's just part of it.
[1:12:23] Speaker 1: So they just don't even try.
[1:12:26] Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's also even if you find people who
[1:12:29] Speaker 3: are out there actively bringing, you know, shining a light
[1:12:34] Speaker 3: on all these things and stuff like that, they still
[1:12:37] Speaker 3: have this inside of them. And that's one thing that
[1:12:40] Speaker 3: I discussed is that it doesn't matter what ideology you
[1:12:43] Speaker 3: have or what belief system you have, there is one
[1:12:45] Speaker 3: basic belief that everyone has in common, and it's worldwide,
[1:12:51] Speaker 3: and that is is that we are all separate, right,
[1:12:54] Speaker 3: that we are separate from the totality. And so what
[1:12:57] Speaker 3: I discuss is there's actually proof that that is false, right,
[1:13:02] Speaker 3: that that is false, and that the operation from a
[1:13:06] Speaker 3: divided consciousness creates the pattern. And so it's really irrelevant
[1:13:11] Speaker 3: what the content of the belief system is as long
[1:13:14] Speaker 3: as there's an opposition, right, it just keeps the wheel
[1:13:17] Speaker 3: goal going forward. And and so I mean, if we
[1:13:21] Speaker 3: want to get into it, but I like to, would
[1:13:23] Speaker 3: like to like what would the solution look like? And
[1:13:25] Speaker 3: you know, to beginning with the end in mind? Right,
[1:13:28] Speaker 3: you know a Stephen Kobe idea, like I don't know
[1:13:31] Speaker 3: if you've heard of Stephen Kobe, but it's the Seven Habits,
[1:13:35] Speaker 3: and he says you begin with the end in mind.
[1:13:38] Speaker 3: And so that's where we want to be able to
[1:13:39] Speaker 3: visualize what it would look like and understanding what humanity
[1:13:43] Speaker 3: is like, what we are, how we live now, and
[1:13:48] Speaker 3: how we live is not like the animal kingdom, right
[1:13:51] Speaker 3: are the body of civilization is like one entity, right,
[1:13:55] Speaker 3: and we all exist inside that entity, exchanging with each
[1:13:59] Speaker 3: other in order to live. So we exchange value with
[1:14:03] Speaker 3: each other. That's what we do. That is what our
[1:14:05] Speaker 3: nature is, right. We all have our particular specialized gifts
[1:14:10] Speaker 3: right that we were born with that we are if
[1:14:14] Speaker 3: actualized right, we would be able to share this value
[1:14:17] Speaker 3: that we are capable of with others in order to right.
[1:14:21] Speaker 3: And so that is what our nature is and the
[1:14:24] Speaker 3: body of society. This exchange, I call it the sacred
[1:14:28] Speaker 3: exchange because it goes back to before you could say
[1:14:32] Speaker 3: the cataclysm that started this whole false reality, don't when
[1:14:36] Speaker 3: we were nearly destroyed and then we started again in Sumeria,
[1:14:40] Speaker 3: you know, more or less right, Ver, civilization just pops
[1:14:43] Speaker 3: up out of nowhere, right, and with algebra and lawyers
[1:14:48] Speaker 3: and you know, a modified drain, just fucking with no
[1:14:52] Speaker 3: fucking precedence whatsoever. So what I'm saying is is that
[1:14:56] Speaker 3: this is where it all started. This is the synthetic polarity, right,
[1:15:01] Speaker 3: the artificial rhythm that drives our society, and it is
[1:15:06] Speaker 3: driven by the idea that that we are separate, the
[1:15:10] Speaker 3: false assumption that we are separate, that everyone has, that
[1:15:13] Speaker 3: everyone has. But to your point about not believe like
[1:15:18] Speaker 3: that this is somehow our nature right, that there is
[1:15:21] Speaker 3: no there is no avoiding this pattern that we that
[1:15:25] Speaker 3: we have created. And I think that is the controlled
[1:15:28] Speaker 3: opposition on the most profound level. Right, So it doesn't
[1:15:32] Speaker 3: matter where you are this, you know, if you're just
[1:15:34] Speaker 3: an ormy or if you're a truther or whatever. There's
[1:15:39] Speaker 3: this underlying belief that somehow we can't break this pattern,
[1:15:44] Speaker 3: that we're just going to keep going until self immolation
[1:15:47] Speaker 3: or somehow we get put into a stasis in a
[1:15:51] Speaker 3: way where we just keep repeating you know what I mean,
[1:15:54] Speaker 3: which is, you know, that's what I think that two
[1:15:56] Speaker 3: out there's three outcomes possible that we make it through
[1:15:58] Speaker 3: this threshold and we realign with our nature, right and
[1:16:03] Speaker 3: with the rhythm of nature, or we get put into
[1:16:07] Speaker 3: a automated system. Right. So the system that we have
[1:16:10] Speaker 3: that's going on for thousand years, but it needs to
[1:16:12] Speaker 3: be managed constant. And the idea is is that that they, right,
[1:16:17] Speaker 3: the elite who are working for whatever this fucking dark
[1:16:21] Speaker 3: entity is. Right. So for those of your listeners who
[1:16:25] Speaker 3: like to talk about that thing, that ship is fucking real, man.
[1:16:28] Speaker 3: You know I've felt it. We could say that that's
[1:16:31] Speaker 3: the problem in itself right there, like this is what
[1:16:34] Speaker 3: we need to solve. Right. So for all of us,
[1:16:39] Speaker 3: right who want to actually do something, but all of
[1:16:42] Speaker 3: us who are looking at this and being knowing that
[1:16:44] Speaker 3: there's some kind of crazy, fucked up shit going on,
[1:16:47] Speaker 3: right that that they tell us that it's our nature, right,
[1:16:53] Speaker 3: that there is no avoidance, right, that it is a nature,
[1:16:56] Speaker 3: But it is a condition.
[1:16:58] Speaker 2: Right.
[1:16:58] Speaker 3: It is a condition that place on ourselves, and we
[1:17:02] Speaker 3: allow it to be the most deeply rooted assumption in
[1:17:07] Speaker 3: all of our operations. Right. And so it's a condition.
[1:17:10] Speaker 3: It's like I I, it's an initial condition, right. And
[1:17:15] Speaker 3: so the pattern that civilization presents, that is created over
[1:17:20] Speaker 3: time is all of us interacting with each other over
[1:17:23] Speaker 3: time on aggregate, right, And if we all hold this
[1:17:27] Speaker 3: most basic, deeply rooted assumption, right, every one of our
[1:17:30] Speaker 3: interactions has this in play, and so on aggregate, meaning
[1:17:34] Speaker 3: on average over time, the pattern that is created is
[1:17:39] Speaker 3: from this initial condition. It's like an equation, right that
[1:17:44] Speaker 3: self iterates and it has this condition in place as
[1:17:48] Speaker 3: a something that it's almost like a computer program, right,
[1:17:55] Speaker 3: where every interaction has this in play. And so what
[1:17:58] Speaker 3: I would like to suggest is that the solution is
[1:18:03] Speaker 3: to remove this condition. It's not our nature, it's a condition.
[1:18:06] Speaker 3: And that's why we talk about the human condition. Right.
[1:18:08] Speaker 3: A condition is treatable, right, we can remove these initial conditions,
[1:18:13] Speaker 3: and then our interactions then change and the pattern will change.
[1:18:18] Speaker 2: Right.
[1:18:18] Speaker 3: So it's nothing that we do. It's not some external savior.
[1:18:23] Speaker 3: It's nothing that we do to our government, right. It
[1:18:26] Speaker 3: is something that we internally do, each of us, and
[1:18:29] Speaker 3: then as we move forward in our relationship with the
[1:18:32] Speaker 3: world and with others, the pattern change. And so that's
[1:18:36] Speaker 3: why I say that there's nowhere to go, there's nothing
[1:18:38] Speaker 3: to be done except for each of us doing this thing.
[1:18:43] Speaker 3: And so that's what I talk about. Me. I would
[1:18:46] Speaker 3: like to like maybe perhaps get into I try to
[1:18:49] Speaker 3: simplify it. Right. You say, there's these layers and upon layers,
[1:18:53] Speaker 3: and that's true, but that's within this construct of you know,
[1:19:02] Speaker 3: of the varying belief systems, and that how in postmodern
[1:19:07] Speaker 3: philosophy particularly say that the consensus on the nature of
[1:19:11] Speaker 3: ultimate reality is unavailable and only each individual can have
[1:19:17] Speaker 3: their own truth, right, And so this is the ultimate
[1:19:20] Speaker 3: atomization of consensus, right, which will it is like the
[1:19:25] Speaker 3: ultimate version of what I've been discussing a little bit
[1:19:29] Speaker 3: so far, which is the dialectical mechanism, right, which is
[1:19:34] Speaker 3: the thesis, anti thesis and synthesis. And then it all
[1:19:38] Speaker 3: starts again and keep going, right, so each of us
[1:19:41] Speaker 3: have our own truth. Then thus taking that position, there
[1:19:45] Speaker 3: will be out there an opposite position, you know, And
[1:19:50] Speaker 3: so this just keeps the ball rolling. So it's really
[1:19:52] Speaker 3: there's nothing that we can do within the system that
[1:19:56] Speaker 3: will alter the system. It will only keep it going.
[1:19:59] Speaker 3: And so the revelation of the method, I don't know
[1:20:01] Speaker 3: if you've heard of that term before, right, it is.
[1:20:04] Speaker 1: For the audience that may not have talked a little
[1:20:06] Speaker 1: bit about that.
[1:20:07] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's you know, it's like when you talk about
[1:20:10] Speaker 3: the Masons or the Illuminati or whatever they're they're revealing
[1:20:14] Speaker 3: the method that they've been using on us, right, like some.
[1:20:17] Speaker 1: Kind of karmic thing they have to tell us, so
[1:20:20] Speaker 1: we agree to it something like.
[1:20:21] Speaker 3: That, right, Well, yeah, kind of like that. But also
[1:20:24] Speaker 3: this is like the kind of we're arriving at the
[1:20:26] Speaker 3: final iteration of this pattern, right where it's like do
[1:20:30] Speaker 3: or die, right, And it's also for them, right, also
[1:20:33] Speaker 3: for the ones who are trying to institute this automated
[1:20:37] Speaker 3: system that will be perpetuated, right, it's do or die
[1:20:40] Speaker 3: for them too. And and so the method is to
[1:20:46] Speaker 3: permit alternative viewpoints in right act like there's their sensoring,
[1:20:52] Speaker 3: but actually permit it to exist. And that's this Carlson
[1:20:55] Speaker 3: Owens thing right where it creates this dialectical dynamic, right,
[1:21:01] Speaker 3: and it really doesn't matter what it is, just as
[1:21:03] Speaker 3: long as it's a opposition to the mainstream.
[1:21:07] Speaker 1: And so you said something that I haven't really heard
[1:21:09] Speaker 1: discussed before is a desired outcome of an automated control system.
[1:21:17] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:21:18] Speaker 1: Now this sounds to me very plausible with everything that
[1:21:22] Speaker 1: we're seeing with AI and the level of technology and
[1:21:27] Speaker 1: integration with human biology and the attempts to steer us
[1:21:32] Speaker 1: towards those directions, would be a perfect indicator of some
[1:21:37] Speaker 1: kind of automated control over humanity. That way, the human
[1:21:42] Speaker 1: element doesn't even.
[1:21:43] Speaker 3: Have to be here anymore. Yeah, we become not human,
[1:21:48] Speaker 3: like we lose our humanity. Yeah, And that's it exactly.
[1:21:51] Speaker 3: It's like I was saying, it's like this, the false
[1:21:55] Speaker 3: reality is built in our right, and it is not
[1:21:57] Speaker 3: on the condition that we are separate, and creates the pattern, right,
[1:22:01] Speaker 3: It creates the dialectical mechanism of opposition and conflict and synthesis, right,
[1:22:07] Speaker 3: which just keeps iterating over and over and over again.
[1:22:10] Speaker 3: But it requires constant management because we are human, right,
[1:22:14] Speaker 3: we will shed that if given enough time, you know.
[1:22:18] Speaker 3: But if it can be completely automated, right, I mean
[1:22:22] Speaker 3: using technology and some kind of AI overlord, then they
[1:22:27] Speaker 3: can remove their hands and then they'll have the ultimate
[1:22:30] Speaker 3: self operating slaughterhouse, so to speak. You could call it
[1:22:34] Speaker 3: a hamster cage, but I like to refer to it
[1:22:36] Speaker 3: as it is. I don't know if you've heard of
[1:22:38] Speaker 3: that autistic woman in a movie at Claire Danes did
[1:22:41] Speaker 3: a movie I Forget it right now, where she's autistic
[1:22:43] Speaker 3: and she revolutionizes the slaughterhouse design for cattle so that
[1:22:49] Speaker 3: the cows move through the thing, not knowing ever that
[1:22:52] Speaker 3: they're in danger, you know, yeah, right, And so and
[1:22:57] Speaker 3: that's kind of like it's this ultimate automated thing that
[1:23:01] Speaker 3: whatever this entity is, right, Like it's I mean, in
[1:23:05] Speaker 3: different company, that sounds crazy, but in this company, it's like,
[1:23:08] Speaker 3: this is what we've all been talking about. It's like,
[1:23:10] Speaker 3: there's it is a spiritual war, right, it is an
[1:23:15] Speaker 3: attempt at removing the spiritual component of our nature, right,
[1:23:20] Speaker 3: and and so that's that's what it would do. And
[1:23:24] Speaker 3: so that's what we absolutely want to avoid and how
[1:23:27] Speaker 3: we avoid that is to extricate ourselves from this dialectical
[1:23:31] Speaker 3: mechanism that just runs itself once we accept the invitation,
[1:23:35] Speaker 3: which is basically to choose a side.
[1:23:38] Speaker 1: Right, Well, it's easy for myself and I'm sure yourself
[1:23:43] Speaker 1: and others to look back at everything that has unfolded
[1:23:48] Speaker 1: and agree that we've allowed it to do so, we've
[1:23:52] Speaker 1: participated with it. Our free will was in full use
[1:23:57] Speaker 1: the entire time we were making agreement with whatever this is,
[1:24:01] Speaker 1: whether we knew it or not. And until just a
[1:24:04] Speaker 1: few years ago, so we had this large scale event,
[1:24:08] Speaker 1: whatever started it, for whatever reason, it caused a ripple
[1:24:14] Speaker 1: effect in our consciousness and there are more people now
[1:24:17] Speaker 1: than ever that are becoming aware that there is something
[1:24:21] Speaker 1: fundamentally wrong with reality. I'm wondering if what's unfolding right
[1:24:28] Speaker 1: now could be enough to break the cycle for this,
[1:24:33] Speaker 1: because it does seem like there's a reaction to the awakening,
[1:24:36] Speaker 1: like this is some sort of in game theatrics that
[1:24:40] Speaker 1: we're seeing that whatever the system is is throwing everything
[1:24:45] Speaker 1: possible at us. But who knows, it could just keep
[1:24:48] Speaker 1: infinitely getting crazier and crazier. But it does seem like
[1:24:53] Speaker 1: just in the past few years there's been a amped
[1:24:57] Speaker 1: up reaction to people be becoming aware of whatever's fundamentally
[1:25:03] Speaker 1: wrong with our reality.
[1:25:04] Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think this is true. Right, But I
[1:25:10] Speaker 3: will say that every generation has a version. You could
[1:25:13] Speaker 3: call it the hippie movement, right, right, so seventy one,
[1:25:17] Speaker 3: same thing. But we saw what the hippies did. They
[1:25:19] Speaker 3: didn't about face, became the boomers and fucked us even harder,
[1:25:23] Speaker 3: you know what I mean. And and so you know,
[1:25:26] Speaker 3: the hippie movement was a siea. We we've talked about
[1:25:29] Speaker 3: this many shows. I don't know if you've discussed it
[1:25:31] Speaker 3: on any of your shows. But and since I'm the
[1:25:35] Speaker 3: child of hippies, had a commune in northern New Mexico,
[1:25:38] Speaker 3: I grew up, you know, my early years were there.
[1:25:41] Speaker 3: And later looking back on it and doing all this
[1:25:46] Speaker 3: processing what happened to our family, and it's like, I
[1:25:50] Speaker 3: you know, it's full realization that it was. It didn't
[1:25:53] Speaker 3: do anything good, not for me. Yeah, And I think
[1:25:59] Speaker 3: on a on a hy scale, we see that the
[1:26:02] Speaker 3: effect of them moving out of the hippie bus, getting
[1:26:06] Speaker 3: their shit together and joining corporate America. Right, we see
[1:26:09] Speaker 3: the decisions the corporate America has made since seventy one,
[1:26:14] Speaker 3: and it is you know, it's the most it's colossally stupid, right,
[1:26:20] Speaker 3: the decisions that they have made, right, and it's being
[1:26:23] Speaker 3: put on us, right, and we are culpable because we
[1:26:29] Speaker 3: not because we allow it to happen, but because we
[1:26:32] Speaker 3: feel like there's no choice, you know, right, And so there,
[1:26:38] Speaker 3: I think that it is on us to solve this right,
[1:26:42] Speaker 3: and I think it's possible that we don't need some
[1:26:45] Speaker 3: extraterrestrial savior. We don't need any external savior. It's on
[1:26:49] Speaker 3: each of us. And when we realize that there is
[1:26:53] Speaker 3: no value without each of us living, without all of
[1:26:56] Speaker 3: us living, right, that's what creates the value. That the
[1:27:00] Speaker 3: elite and whatever is running them is feeding. No, that's
[1:27:06] Speaker 3: what creates the value. And so when we realize that
[1:27:09] Speaker 3: without us, there they start. It's a parasite, right, it's
[1:27:13] Speaker 3: a parasite. It creates nothing of value. All it does
[1:27:16] Speaker 3: is feed off of us. And so this sacred exchange
[1:27:19] Speaker 3: that is being, that is what it is to be human, right,
[1:27:22] Speaker 3: which is we each have the ability to create something,
[1:27:26] Speaker 3: whatever it may be. You know, we're all specially, we're
[1:27:29] Speaker 3: all unicorns, We're all fucking unique, right, Each of us
[1:27:33] Speaker 3: is infinitely valuable and with the potential to add, to
[1:27:38] Speaker 3: contribute in a way that will embellish the world and
[1:27:42] Speaker 3: the cosms. Right. But that's absolutely what's not not not
[1:27:46] Speaker 3: what's happening right, right, So our sacred exchange, the way
[1:27:50] Speaker 3: that we live is being fed upon, right and this
[1:27:53] Speaker 3: uh the pattern that we continue to exhibit. It must
[1:27:59] Speaker 3: be maintained in order for that to continue. So in
[1:28:02] Speaker 3: order for us to extricate, we have to kill the parasite, right,
[1:28:06] Speaker 3: we have to starve the parasite. But this awakening that
[1:28:11] Speaker 3: you're speaking of is it's awakening everyone to being like
[1:28:14] Speaker 3: fuck this man, We've got to rise up, you know.
[1:28:17] Speaker 3: But that's the invitation, that's the invitation, you know. So
[1:28:22] Speaker 3: this is the revelation of the method. Right, this is
[1:28:25] Speaker 3: part of the plan. Right. We can't win by fighting,
[1:28:29] Speaker 3: that's the dialectical mechanism, right, So we win by removing
[1:28:34] Speaker 3: ourselves from it, you know. And so how do we
[1:28:38] Speaker 3: all do that? How do we all come together? It
[1:28:40] Speaker 3: seems like we must learn the hard way, right in
[1:28:44] Speaker 3: order for us to come together, And I'm I don't
[1:28:47] Speaker 3: think that's the case, right, There is we can make
[1:28:52] Speaker 3: this personal realization each of us, right, which is to
[1:28:55] Speaker 3: recognize that there is no self independent of the whole. Right,
[1:29:04] Speaker 3: there is no separate self in the vacuum. Right, define
[1:29:09] Speaker 3: yourself without your relationship to the whole, one cannot do it. Right.
[1:29:15] Speaker 3: There is no self without the whole. There is no
[1:29:18] Speaker 3: self that exists independently from the whole. And this is
[1:29:22] Speaker 3: the teachings of the two right Bodhi Dharma, which is
[1:29:26] Speaker 3: one of the original Daoists, right, or the inspiration for
[1:29:30] Speaker 3: Zen Buddhism. Right. His acolyte comes to him says, please
[1:29:36] Speaker 3: pacify my mind. Body. Dharma says, okay, show me this
[1:29:42] Speaker 3: mind and I will pacify it for you. And he
[1:29:47] Speaker 3: So the acolyte goes out, and the years go by, right,
[1:29:50] Speaker 3: and he comes back. Finally it's like, I, Master, I
[1:29:54] Speaker 3: cannot find this mind that you sent me to seek.
[1:30:00] Speaker 3: And buddy Dharma said, well, great, then it's already possible,
[1:30:05] Speaker 3: you know. And that what that's saying is is that
[1:30:08] Speaker 3: when you try to identify what yourself is, you realize
[1:30:12] Speaker 3: you can't do it without it being connected to the
[1:30:16] Speaker 3: whole in some way. And so when you you finally
[1:30:18] Speaker 3: realize is that you are the whole thing. And that's
[1:30:22] Speaker 3: what that was. That that's what it teaches. That's what
[1:30:26] Speaker 3: Krishnamurti was talking about his whole life. I don't know
[1:30:28] Speaker 3: if you're aware of Jay Krishnamurdy, but this is what
[1:30:32] Speaker 3: he was saying, right, And so how you you remove
[1:30:36] Speaker 3: this is this is why meditation is so important, you know.
[1:30:40] Speaker 3: But meditation isn't something you do in the morning and
[1:30:43] Speaker 3: the eat right. This is a state that must occur
[1:30:46] Speaker 3: at all times so that you can ride the wave
[1:30:50] Speaker 3: of life.
[1:30:50] Speaker 2: Right.
[1:30:51] Speaker 3: There's no separating waves. Everything is frequency, right, and so
[1:30:58] Speaker 3: it is about the relationship, right. And when you another
[1:31:03] Speaker 3: way to put this is being in the zone. You've
[1:31:05] Speaker 3: probably experienced this yourself in different ways. Everyone's experienced it.
[1:31:10] Speaker 3: Where these moments when you can do no wrong right,
[1:31:15] Speaker 3: when you always do the right thing, take the right step,
[1:31:19] Speaker 3: and in those moments your sense of self is more
[1:31:23] Speaker 3: than diminished, but is nonexistent, right, you know what I mean.
[1:31:28] Speaker 3: And as soon as you bring yourself into it like
[1:31:33] Speaker 3: oh look at me, I'm kicking ass, or however it goes,
[1:31:35] Speaker 3: you know, then it collapses and I liken it too,
[1:31:39] Speaker 3: the collapsing of the wave function. You know, it collapses
[1:31:43] Speaker 3: into this separate reality, right, which creates this cause and
[1:31:48] Speaker 3: effect relationship. And so I don't know if you've noticed,
[1:31:52] Speaker 3: but I've started to talk about the ematic principles, right,
[1:31:55] Speaker 3: which is everything is vibration, the principle of cause and effect,
[1:31:58] Speaker 3: the principle of polarity. And so these are all clues
[1:32:01] Speaker 3: as to how one can operate in a mode of
[1:32:06] Speaker 3: selflessness right where And you know, this is what the
[1:32:11] Speaker 3: oracle Adelphi was saying. It says over the entrance that
[1:32:14] Speaker 3: the oracle at Delphi says, know thyself, right. And it's
[1:32:18] Speaker 3: a trick statement because knowing yourself is knowing that the
[1:32:22] Speaker 3: self doesn't exist independent of the whole. The self is
[1:32:26] Speaker 3: the whole thing. There's only the whole thing. And so
[1:32:29] Speaker 3: this is the removal of the condition of separate self, right,
[1:32:32] Speaker 3: which is this condition that there's something to protect, right,
[1:32:36] Speaker 3: that I must protect my self from the other. Right.
[1:32:42] Speaker 3: This condition is what creates the pattern on aggregate over time,
[1:32:46] Speaker 3: we're all operating in this. And so this awakening that
[1:32:50] Speaker 3: you speak of, this awakening of you know too, you
[1:32:54] Speaker 3: know the lies and that you know just the blanket
[1:32:57] Speaker 3: statement on that, the awakening of to the ways that
[1:33:00] Speaker 3: we are being fooled, you know, and tricked and all
[1:33:02] Speaker 3: of that stuff. It's that's not a nun you know.
[1:33:08] Speaker 3: It's awakening, a true awakening, and is the awakening of
[1:33:13] Speaker 3: that we are all one thing. And this sounds cliche,
[1:33:18] Speaker 3: you know, it's like we've all heard this before, but
[1:33:21] Speaker 3: this is the thing. And I have a way of
[1:33:24] Speaker 3: I think explaining it. I'm not really doing it right now,
[1:33:26] Speaker 3: but makes it more simple to talk about. Like and
[1:33:31] Speaker 3: even though it is talking about the intangible right, the
[1:33:37] Speaker 3: invisible and the inaudible right, which is the transcendental component
[1:33:43] Speaker 3: of our reality. Right, we have access to that when
[1:33:47] Speaker 3: we relinquish our defense of our sense of separate cell.
[1:33:51] Speaker 1: I've experienced through meditation, plant medicine, multiple different altered states,
[1:33:59] Speaker 1: the knowing that we are all one, that this is
[1:34:02] Speaker 1: all one experience. Now, if this is indeed the case,
[1:34:07] Speaker 1: that we are all one, I like to consider that
[1:34:10] Speaker 1: everything we're experiencing on some level was inevitable that it
[1:34:16] Speaker 1: would unfold the way it did. I look back at
[1:34:19] Speaker 1: everything that happened in my life and I can say, damn,
[1:34:22] Speaker 1: that was shitty, but I'm so much better for it.
[1:34:25] Speaker 1: I am so grateful for having that experience, and I
[1:34:28] Speaker 1: can look back at every single experience in my life
[1:34:31] Speaker 1: and say this same thing. And then we can go
[1:34:33] Speaker 1: to a big picture to the collective and look at
[1:34:37] Speaker 1: where we have been and where we are now. And
[1:34:41] Speaker 1: if the events of twenty twenty wouldn't have unfolded as
[1:34:45] Speaker 1: they did, would we be as aware as we are now?
[1:34:50] Speaker 1: Is this all part of some collective divine plan? Is
[1:34:56] Speaker 1: consciousness ready to pull up its big boy pants and
[1:34:59] Speaker 1: sh she had the nonsense, this negative field of intelligence
[1:35:04] Speaker 1: that has been trapping us? What do you think about that?
[1:35:08] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[1:35:09] Speaker 3: I think that's a great point. And you know, individually, yeah,
[1:35:12] Speaker 3: it's like without all of the ship that each of
[1:35:14] Speaker 3: us has been through, would we be able to be
[1:35:17] Speaker 3: where we are or even do what we're doing, or
[1:35:19] Speaker 3: even discuss have the courts to discuss what we're discussing.
[1:35:22] Speaker 3: You know, it was all there's no fucking way if
[1:35:26] Speaker 3: I had, you know, gotten what I wished for in
[1:35:29] Speaker 3: my twenties, you know that I would be in this position,
[1:35:32] Speaker 3: you know what I mean? You know, And so then
[1:35:35] Speaker 3: to expand that to the collective, it's like, we've this
[1:35:40] Speaker 3: is the moment now, right, this is we've arrived at
[1:35:43] Speaker 3: the moment when we can actually solve this, and without
[1:35:45] Speaker 3: everything else happening previously, we wouldn't be at that moment, right.
[1:35:50] Speaker 3: But I will say though, right that previously, because we
[1:35:55] Speaker 3: are sacred beings, I would say that we are fully evolved.
[1:35:57] Speaker 3: There's no evolution to be done, right. We only have
[1:36:01] Speaker 3: to remember to turn back on all of the components
[1:36:04] Speaker 3: that have been turned off. Right. And so there is
[1:36:07] Speaker 3: this aspect to us of the way we were before, right,
[1:36:13] Speaker 3: And we existed in harming right, in alignment with the
[1:36:19] Speaker 3: natural rhythm, you know, and we still had this we
[1:36:23] Speaker 3: had the ability to build. It's not like we were
[1:36:25] Speaker 3: just you know, hunter gatherers, you know what I mean.
[1:36:29] Speaker 3: It's like obviously, I mean, I think everyone has a
[1:36:32] Speaker 3: different opinion about what the megalithic structures are, but definitely
[1:36:38] Speaker 3: we were there, right, And so I like to look
[1:36:42] Speaker 3: at it as you know, the way Hancock says that
[1:36:46] Speaker 3: we have forgotten, right, we are a species with amnesia,
[1:36:51] Speaker 3: and so we have it in us, right, and so
[1:36:53] Speaker 3: this thing that's happened to us, it ran on a
[1:36:59] Speaker 3: runaway course till to get to this moment where we
[1:37:02] Speaker 3: can actually transcend it and be better for it.
[1:37:05] Speaker 1: So even deeper into that thought, could it be that
[1:37:09] Speaker 1: what we consider this arconic demi urge force, was it
[1:37:14] Speaker 1: essential for us? Did we immerse ourselves in that for
[1:37:20] Speaker 1: the experience of it too, in order to break out
[1:37:23] Speaker 1: of it like we immerse ourselves in video games?
[1:37:29] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[1:37:29] Speaker 3: I mean, I think there's a misinterpretation of narcissism, for
[1:37:34] Speaker 3: one thing, saying that that that the world is created
[1:37:36] Speaker 3: by the demiurge. Actually, so the way I look at
[1:37:38] Speaker 3: it is it's a mistranslation that the world was created
[1:37:42] Speaker 3: in our heads. Right, So the false reality is in
[1:37:46] Speaker 3: our heads and we allow it. It's like a software
[1:37:48] Speaker 3: installed into you know, the hardware of our minds, you know.
[1:37:53] Speaker 3: But you know that out of the way, Yeah, both.
[1:37:58] Speaker 3: You know, he introduced the in alphabet, right, and he
[1:38:03] Speaker 3: was an ascended master, so to speak. And what the
[1:38:06] Speaker 3: word is is that he betrayed humanity, you know, like
[1:38:10] Speaker 3: everyone wants to say, though, there was this good guy,
[1:38:12] Speaker 3: but he was the one who got this ship rolling
[1:38:15] Speaker 3: in the first place. And now is it Did he
[1:38:17] Speaker 3: do it in order to so that we could have
[1:38:20] Speaker 3: the ability to avoid cosmic calamity, right, so that we
[1:38:27] Speaker 3: would have the ability to be able to survive some
[1:38:31] Speaker 3: kind of cosmic event that fucked us last time, you know.
[1:38:35] Speaker 3: And so there's no knowing exactly what happened, right, There's
[1:38:39] Speaker 3: no knowing if we were attacked, right, or if this
[1:38:42] Speaker 3: was something that happened from the cycles of universe, right.
[1:38:47] Speaker 3: And you know, I do think that the unit the
[1:38:50] Speaker 3: space is real, right, the universe is real, right, and
[1:38:55] Speaker 3: that where we are right is a realm, so to speak, right,
[1:39:02] Speaker 3: because it has the four dimensions, right, the three spatial
[1:39:06] Speaker 3: and the time dimension, but the totality of it has
[1:39:10] Speaker 3: all these upper dimensions, right, And so yeah, it's flat
[1:39:15] Speaker 3: relative to the higher dimensions, because each higher dimension has
[1:39:18] Speaker 3: another degree of freedom, right, And so if you go
[1:39:21] Speaker 3: down from three dimensions to two, that's flat, right, But
[1:39:25] Speaker 3: three dimensions is flat relative to five, you know. So
[1:39:29] Speaker 3: I just I'm speaking of all y'all out there who
[1:39:31] Speaker 3: are flat earthers. It's like you may have been reading
[1:39:34] Speaker 3: these old books and the only way that they could
[1:39:37] Speaker 3: say that it was flat was because they didn't have
[1:39:41] Speaker 3: the you know, the mental or we don't have the
[1:39:45] Speaker 3: capability to describe higher dimensions, right, And see, the only
[1:39:49] Speaker 3: direction we can go is down right to a disc
[1:39:52] Speaker 3: shaped realm or whatever. So I think you can maintain
[1:39:57] Speaker 3: that shit, right, Right, there is some fucked up shit
[1:39:59] Speaker 3: out being an Andarctica. But this the way, you know,
[1:40:04] Speaker 3: the universe is the whole thing, and there's a sacred
[1:40:06] Speaker 3: geometry builds the whole thing, right, The mathematics inherent in
[1:40:11] Speaker 3: all things, builds this giant structure. It doesn't build a
[1:40:15] Speaker 3: disc floating in the firmament. You know, that's not sacred geometry.
[1:40:21] Speaker 3: So I just wanted to kind of slide that in there.
[1:40:23] Speaker 3: But what you know, it's like what I wanted to
[1:40:27] Speaker 3: talk about with this division in order to take it
[1:40:29] Speaker 3: at a different angle that most people don't talk about
[1:40:32] Speaker 3: because we just say that we're all one, and it's like, well,
[1:40:35] Speaker 3: but how do you know, right, how can this how
[1:40:39] Speaker 3: can you really say that? And and it's like there's
[1:40:42] Speaker 3: all this circumstantial evidence, right, which is what I was discussing,
[1:40:46] Speaker 3: is that there's no way to find yourself without referencing
[1:40:50] Speaker 3: the rest of everything else. Right, And in society, there's
[1:40:55] Speaker 3: no living without the other people, right, because we all
[1:41:01] Speaker 3: exchange with each other. Right. But uh, it's really like
[1:41:05] Speaker 3: I come at it from an angle of the definition
[1:41:10] Speaker 3: of objective and subjective right. And this is how we
[1:41:14] Speaker 3: can approach the way this dialectical mechanism is maintained. And
[1:41:19] Speaker 3: so if you will allow me, or if you want
[1:41:22] Speaker 3: to like the please do all right. Yeah, So observation
[1:41:30] Speaker 3: from a position of separation, it's the assumption that the
[1:41:33] Speaker 3: world unfolds independent of the perception of right. So that's
[1:41:39] Speaker 3: objective right, that the world takes place independent of our observation. Right.
[1:41:46] Speaker 3: And that's also the definition of proof, right is that
[1:41:51] Speaker 3: something can only be proved if it's universal, right, if
[1:41:54] Speaker 3: it's non disputable right. And so the definition of subjective
[1:42:00] Speaker 3: is belonging to a reality that is perceived, that is
[1:42:03] Speaker 3: related to a point of view, right, rather than being
[1:42:08] Speaker 3: independent of mind. So when when I say that objective
[1:42:13] Speaker 3: objectivity is a reality that takes place independent of observation,
[1:42:19] Speaker 3: is a reality that takes place independent of mind, right,
[1:42:23] Speaker 3: independent of awareness? Subjectivity is belonging to a reality that
[1:42:28] Speaker 3: is dependent upon the awareness of perception of it, right,
[1:42:32] Speaker 3: dependent upon perspective. Right. Does that make sense to me?
[1:42:39] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[1:42:39] Speaker 3: And so this idea of objective objectivity is the idea
[1:42:46] Speaker 3: that we are separate, right, that somehow the world takes
[1:42:49] Speaker 3: place independent of us. Right. And this is how science
[1:42:53] Speaker 3: is done. Right, this is the empirical method.
[1:42:55] Speaker 1: Such a shitty fount.
[1:42:59] Speaker 3: But so what the empirical method does is makes it
[1:43:02] Speaker 3: so that the results are repeatable, right, So it doesn't
[1:43:06] Speaker 3: remove the observer from the reality. It just makes it
[1:43:10] Speaker 3: so that whatever is observed is repeatable across all frames
[1:43:15] Speaker 3: of reference. Right. So that doesn't create an objective view.
[1:43:19] Speaker 3: It creates a consensus, right, a consensus of multiple separate minds,
[1:43:24] Speaker 3: you know. And we can see that in paradigm shift, right,
[1:43:29] Speaker 3: that science, the consensus belief gets overturned periodically, you know,
[1:43:35] Speaker 3: with new information. And so we can't say that it's
[1:43:38] Speaker 3: objective that when we get better instruments, we change our
[1:43:41] Speaker 3: frame of reference and we gather information that overturns the
[1:43:45] Speaker 3: previous consensus viewpoint. Right. So, and this is the paradox
[1:43:53] Speaker 3: of self reference, right is that have you heard of
[1:43:57] Speaker 3: the self referential paradox? So it's something goes all the
[1:44:03] Speaker 3: way back to the Greeks and beyond. Right, they were
[1:44:05] Speaker 3: talking about the ship and it's foundationally epistem logical, which
[1:44:09] Speaker 3: is about having to do with the acquisition of knowledge. Right,
[1:44:13] Speaker 3: It's like, how do we acquire knowledge and The assumption
[1:44:18] Speaker 3: is that knowledge must be true, right, and it cannot
[1:44:23] Speaker 3: be knowledge if it is untrue. And so truth must
[1:44:28] Speaker 3: be universal and not dependent upon frame of reference or perspective, right,
[1:44:34] Speaker 3: not subjective, not variable, not relative, non disputable.
[1:44:39] Speaker 2: Right.
[1:44:40] Speaker 3: So that's the definition of knowledge right. However, right, the
[1:44:45] Speaker 3: acquisition of knowledge cannot be done without perception, which forces
[1:44:48] Speaker 3: a frame of reference. And so the self this is
[1:44:53] Speaker 3: a self reference, right. And so this is how we
[1:44:56] Speaker 3: can see in the empirical method the para time shift, right,
[1:45:03] Speaker 3: which is that you can't avoid the self reference no
[1:45:07] Speaker 3: matter how hard we try, right, that the consensus viewpoint
[1:45:10] Speaker 3: will be overturned. It's only a matter of time, right.
[1:45:16] Speaker 3: And so what we have is is we create better explanations. Right.
[1:45:20] Speaker 3: The explanations do get better, right with each iteration of investigation.
[1:45:25] Speaker 3: But the explanations are maintained by consensus that will have
[1:45:29] Speaker 3: to defend itself from an alternative explanation soon, right. And
[1:45:34] Speaker 3: so this is where we see that old paradigms fight
[1:45:39] Speaker 3: tooth and nail against the new viewpoint, you know. Right.
[1:45:44] Speaker 3: We can see this right in science, where someone given
[1:45:50] Speaker 3: their whole life to their body of research, right, and
[1:45:53] Speaker 3: it turns out they were wrong, but they aren't going
[1:45:55] Speaker 3: to give up, you know what I mean. And so
[1:45:58] Speaker 3: this is where we can see this dialectical mechanism taking place,
[1:46:02] Speaker 3: where it is thesis anti thesis, the alternative explanation and
[1:46:07] Speaker 3: then synthesis, right, And it only happens through conflict. And
[1:46:11] Speaker 3: so it's not just in the scientific fields that this happened.
[1:46:15] Speaker 3: This is how we build our knowledge, right. It's not
[1:46:18] Speaker 3: to say that knowledge doesn't exist, because obviously our technology works,
[1:46:23] Speaker 3: you know, like we are able to gain enough knowledge
[1:46:26] Speaker 3: to make things that add to our ability right now.
[1:46:32] Speaker 3: So yeah, so this is the paradox of self reference,
[1:46:35] Speaker 3: but it goes deeper than that. So it's like, we
[1:46:37] Speaker 3: can't avoid self reference because it is our minds that
[1:46:40] Speaker 3: are making observation right right, right. We can only simulate
[1:46:44] Speaker 3: objectivity by reproducibility, right, And so the success of our
[1:46:50] Speaker 3: practical application of scientific explanations allows us to believe that
[1:46:54] Speaker 3: reality exists independent of our observation, independent of ourselves. But
[1:46:58] Speaker 3: we can only achieve the reproducibility of results which cannot
[1:47:02] Speaker 3: be independent.
[1:47:03] Speaker 2: Right.
[1:47:06] Speaker 3: So the impossibility of avoiding self reference, or the dependency
[1:47:10] Speaker 3: on mind perception while gathering information is simply because perception
[1:47:15] Speaker 3: is required to do so, right. But it goes deeper
[1:47:19] Speaker 3: than that, because what we have is that math. Math
[1:47:24] Speaker 3: is universal, or it seems to be right because it
[1:47:27] Speaker 3: doesn't matter who is doing the math, it works, right.
[1:47:33] Speaker 3: And so this seems like it is objected. This seems
[1:47:36] Speaker 3: like it is independent of mine, right, even though the
[1:47:40] Speaker 3: math was created by mind, because anyone doing the calculations
[1:47:45] Speaker 3: in whatever various fields of math is reproducible entirely right,
[1:47:52] Speaker 3: it is almost entirely unassailable, right. I mean, we can
[1:47:58] Speaker 3: say this for the most part. I think some of
[1:48:00] Speaker 3: you have study math be like, well but wait a minute, right,
[1:48:02] Speaker 3: there's this. You know, there's surface math, or you know
[1:48:06] Speaker 3: there's topology, and it's like, hold on there for a second.
[1:48:10] Speaker 3: But a godal right, a brilliant mathematician proved that math
[1:48:17] Speaker 3: is also has self reference in it, and so self
[1:48:21] Speaker 3: reference is unavoidable even in this universally reproducible medium of mathematics. Right,
[1:48:30] Speaker 3: And so he proved that math could not be complete, right,
[1:48:33] Speaker 3: that it would always be incomplete and never be consistent.
[1:48:37] Speaker 3: He proved it because it could not avoid contradiction. And
[1:48:42] Speaker 3: this is because the problem of self reference. So he
[1:48:47] Speaker 3: proved that there is there can be no mathematical theory
[1:48:50] Speaker 3: of everything, and no possible unification of what is provable
[1:48:53] Speaker 3: and what is true right interesting, And so what math
[1:48:59] Speaker 3: can prove depends solely upon the starting assumptions and not
[1:49:03] Speaker 3: any fundamental truth from which all answers come from. Right.
[1:49:09] Speaker 3: So all of us were all the mathematicians, and we
[1:49:12] Speaker 3: all were like, okay, math can explain everything, right, But
[1:49:16] Speaker 3: this proved that it couldn't. And so the implications of
[1:49:20] Speaker 3: this are are more far reaching than the fact that
[1:49:23] Speaker 3: of the paradox of self reference, in which the knowledge
[1:49:28] Speaker 3: must be independent of mind. But you can't gather knowledge
[1:49:30] Speaker 3: without mind. You know, It's deeper than right. So Godle's
[1:49:37] Speaker 3: proof demonstrating the astonishing truth that perception and reality are indivisible,
[1:49:44] Speaker 3: and that this indivisibility meant that perception could not be
[1:49:47] Speaker 3: localized because of the universality of math. Right, it does
[1:49:53] Speaker 3: not localize perception. But he proved that there is always
[1:49:57] Speaker 3: a contradiction in math, that you will there are all
[1:50:00] Speaker 3: there will be some truths that will be unprovable, right,
[1:50:04] Speaker 3: that you won't be able to remove perception from right.
[1:50:08] Speaker 3: And so what this says, right, and no one's talking
[1:50:10] Speaker 3: about this. They fucking sweep it under the rug. Right,
[1:50:14] Speaker 3: And it is related to quantum mechanics, right, because obviously
[1:50:18] Speaker 3: the observer effect. I don't know if you've discussed this
[1:50:21] Speaker 3: on any of her shows, which is yeah, that in
[1:50:25] Speaker 3: the sub atomic realm, when we observe a sub atomic particle, right,
[1:50:31] Speaker 3: then it is in a superposition before observation. Then we
[1:50:36] Speaker 3: when we look at it, we collapse its wave function
[1:50:39] Speaker 3: and it becomes either one thing or the other. Right,
[1:50:42] Speaker 3: And so we see that perception is inherently linked to
[1:50:46] Speaker 3: our ore to the nature of reality. But what go
[1:50:52] Speaker 3: to proved mathematically is that reality is not independent of mine, right,
[1:50:58] Speaker 3: mathematically proved meaning that a separate and identifiable location for
[1:51:02] Speaker 3: consciousness was impossible because to separate it would assign it
[1:51:06] Speaker 3: a location.
[1:51:08] Speaker 1: So I'll say what one aspect of what this means
[1:51:13] Speaker 1: for this conversation is that we can have this consciousness, remembrance,
[1:51:20] Speaker 1: awareness evolution to such a great extent where we may
[1:51:26] Speaker 1: have thousands of years of peace and prosperity on earth,
[1:51:30] Speaker 1: but there always may come a time where that perception
[1:51:35] Speaker 1: could flip us back and we could be reset to
[1:51:39] Speaker 1: these old destructive understandings at any point.
[1:51:45] Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. I mean, first, like though, like you're
[1:51:53] Speaker 3: talking about returning from a golden age into an age
[1:51:56] Speaker 3: of darkness. Right, what we are doing right now is
[1:51:59] Speaker 3: going from an agypt darkness.
[1:52:01] Speaker 1: I do not have a problem with thousands of years
[1:52:04] Speaker 1: of prosperity. I'll throw it out there right now. I
[1:52:06] Speaker 1: am welcoming to it. But that is, it seems like
[1:52:11] Speaker 1: it is an unavoidable law of our existence, which you
[1:52:15] Speaker 1: were just talking about, that our perception is going to
[1:52:20] Speaker 1: affect that universal truth of our existence.
[1:52:26] Speaker 3: Well, I think, yeah, I hear what you're saying. Yeah,
[1:52:30] Speaker 3: and we can get back to that. But really, what more,
[1:52:32] Speaker 3: what this is saying is is that mind is built
[1:52:35] Speaker 3: into the whole thing, that it's non local, that consciousness
[1:52:39] Speaker 3: is non local, and so that it is the whole thing. Yeah,
[1:52:44] Speaker 3: you know. And so what our insistence on us on
[1:52:52] Speaker 3: consciousness being separate, right, and somehow a derivation of a
[1:52:56] Speaker 3: debt ongoing universe. Right, how it like consciousness somehow comes later. Right,
[1:53:03] Speaker 3: What this is suggesting is that consciousness is ever present,
[1:53:07] Speaker 3: right at all times, right forever and for all time.
[1:53:11] Speaker 3: And so the insistence on separate consciousness is what creates
[1:53:17] Speaker 3: the uh, the you know, the pattern of self defense, right,
[1:53:23] Speaker 3: which is and so how you maintain or how you
[1:53:27] Speaker 3: would promote the idea that yourself is at risk is
[1:53:33] Speaker 3: the threat of death, right, and so and so if
[1:53:37] Speaker 3: you're talking about returning to an age of darkness after
[1:53:40] Speaker 3: a prolonged period of you know, of operating in alignment
[1:53:44] Speaker 3: with the principles, then it would be that, right, it
[1:53:49] Speaker 3: would be this uh survival mode idea. And so that's
[1:53:53] Speaker 3: where we've been, right for thousands of years. We're all
[1:53:56] Speaker 3: operating in survival mode. And you can see that the
[1:53:59] Speaker 3: pattern has been it is always a threat, right, There's
[1:54:02] Speaker 3: always a threat. There's always a threat of death, and
[1:54:05] Speaker 3: that must be maintained in order to maintain this idea
[1:54:08] Speaker 3: of division, you know. And so the you know, the
[1:54:12] Speaker 3: thing that happened two and a half years ago or whatever,
[1:54:16] Speaker 3: that's the ultimate threat.
[1:54:17] Speaker 2: Right.
[1:54:17] Speaker 3: You're a threat. Everyone's a threat. Everyone's a threat, right,
[1:54:21] Speaker 3: everyone's a threat to you. But if you look back
[1:54:23] Speaker 3: in history, our systems of government are all about that.
[1:54:26] Speaker 3: It's just paid protection, right, right, And that's still what
[1:54:31] Speaker 3: it is. That's still exactly what it is. Is the
[1:54:33] Speaker 3: authority has the ability to offer deadly force right in
[1:54:37] Speaker 3: order to in order for compliance, so maintain this threat constantly.
[1:54:43] Speaker 3: And so what Gandhi did is he's like, Okah, you're
[1:54:47] Speaker 3: not a threat. I'm not my body right. And so
[1:54:50] Speaker 3: that's kind of what we all have to do is
[1:54:52] Speaker 3: recognizing that we are all this one thing, right, and
[1:54:55] Speaker 3: that you are not your body right, you are not
[1:54:59] Speaker 3: your thought, you're not your role right. We are all
[1:55:04] Speaker 3: this one thing. And so when we operate it from
[1:55:07] Speaker 3: that standpoint, and I say that because of words, but
[1:55:13] Speaker 3: really what it is is a position of no position right,
[1:55:15] Speaker 3: because you're not taking a position and I like to
[1:55:18] Speaker 3: call it a superposition that's right, which is which is
[1:55:23] Speaker 3: taking from quantum mechanics, which is you stay in a
[1:55:26] Speaker 3: state of superposition right, in a state of you'd be
[1:55:30] Speaker 3: nondual by allowing both states to be at once yes, right,
[1:55:36] Speaker 3: which is the individual and the whole right. So that's
[1:55:40] Speaker 3: how we when if we are all each operating in
[1:55:43] Speaker 3: the position a superposition right, we become super right. Our
[1:55:47] Speaker 3: capability becomes super because we have access to the whole
[1:55:50] Speaker 3: thing right, and our ability to work as a collective
[1:55:56] Speaker 3: becomes super and so our create a potential bucking goes
[1:56:02] Speaker 3: through the rout and this is what we are on
[1:56:04] Speaker 3: the verge of at the moment, right, This is what
[1:56:07] Speaker 3: we could have right. So when I say beginning with
[1:56:09] Speaker 3: the end in mind, this is what we could have right,
[1:56:12] Speaker 3: which is the ultimate facilitation of our nature, which is
[1:56:16] Speaker 3: a facilitation of living. Right, we promote living instead of
[1:56:22] Speaker 3: always offering a threat of death.
[1:56:26] Speaker 1: Yeah, man, And I think a big part of this
[1:56:29] Speaker 1: solution is going to inevitably be grassroots movements eventually moving
[1:56:35] Speaker 1: away from these online discretions. However wonderful they are and
[1:56:40] Speaker 1: however far they've gotten us so far. Eventually we're going
[1:56:45] Speaker 1: to see more and more problems with echo chambers because
[1:56:48] Speaker 1: of the platforms we're using. I mean, we're already seeing,
[1:56:52] Speaker 1: depending on what your news feed looks like on social media,
[1:56:56] Speaker 1: what your YouTube listening list is, you're going to be
[1:57:01] Speaker 1: corralled to certain algorithms and that you're going to be
[1:57:05] Speaker 1: shown things that the algorithm wants to show you and
[1:57:09] Speaker 1: not necessarily things that you really are looking to see
[1:57:13] Speaker 1: or should see. So eventually, to me, that tells me
[1:57:16] Speaker 1: that we're going to have to have some grassroots movements.
[1:57:19] Speaker 1: We're going to have to have some independent communities going
[1:57:23] Speaker 1: to continue these ideas and continue to check out of
[1:57:28] Speaker 1: the system, like we were just talking about in our
[1:57:30] Speaker 1: own superpositions.
[1:57:33] Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's true the technology is built to promote
[1:57:37] Speaker 3: the sense of division, right, and so in order for
[1:57:41] Speaker 3: these this kind of thinking to grow organically, yeah, it
[1:57:47] Speaker 3: has to be organic, you know. And so we have
[1:57:51] Speaker 3: to I mean, discussing AI is the thing, right, because
[1:57:55] Speaker 3: when I talk about the dialectical mechanism, which is you know,
[1:58:00] Speaker 3: Hegelian dialectic, it was described by Hegel first, right, which
[1:58:03] Speaker 3: is the thesis, counter thesis or antithesis and then synthesis
[1:58:08] Speaker 3: right when we think of so one part of my
[1:58:11] Speaker 3: podcast is the discussion of technology and how it affects us, right,
[1:58:16] Speaker 3: And it is largely based on the thinking of Marshall McLuhan,
[1:58:20] Speaker 3: who had it right, you know, and his lesson has
[1:58:25] Speaker 3: been marginalized to media literacy. But what he said, he said,
[1:58:29] Speaker 3: the medium is the message. I don't know if you've
[1:58:31] Speaker 3: heard that phrase before. Yeah, and he also coined the
[1:58:36] Speaker 3: phrase of global village, you know. And so what technology
[1:58:40] Speaker 3: has done since its inception is extend our bodies, right,
[1:58:44] Speaker 3: it's not separate from us right with our perception of
[1:58:48] Speaker 3: the environment, the ability to evaluate, yeah, just that, the
[1:58:54] Speaker 3: ability to recognize value, right, to take materials from the environment,
[1:58:57] Speaker 3: modify them and make it so that it our efficiency
[1:59:02] Speaker 3: is maximized. Right. So everything that we make is an
[1:59:06] Speaker 3: extension of our bodies, right, is an extension of us.
[1:59:10] Speaker 3: So to think of it as separate, right is to
[1:59:13] Speaker 3: create this thesis anti thesis relationship with it. Right. And
[1:59:17] Speaker 3: so the ultimate extension that we've arrived at at this
[1:59:20] Speaker 3: moment in history is AI. Right, is an extension of
[1:59:24] Speaker 3: our minds, you know. But I'll finish this out and
[1:59:30] Speaker 3: I'll talk about something else a little bit more. But
[1:59:33] Speaker 3: so if we consider AI a threat to us, right,
[1:59:37] Speaker 3: that as separate, then it will be that and we
[1:59:40] Speaker 3: will enter into Hegelian dialectic with it, right, and the
[1:59:45] Speaker 3: ultimate result of that will be synthesis, which will be transhumanism.
[1:59:51] Speaker 3: So the notion that it is a threat is being
[1:59:55] Speaker 3: oisted upon us so that we will consider it that. Right.
[1:59:59] Speaker 3: The idea that it's taking our jobs, right, the idea
[2:00:02] Speaker 3: that it would want to exterminate us because we're like
[2:00:05] Speaker 3: a cancer on the earth, right or whatever. Right, the
[2:00:09] Speaker 3: idea that it would consider us a threat, right, and
[2:00:12] Speaker 3: and and exterminate us in order to preserve itself is
[2:00:16] Speaker 3: the setting up of a dialectical mechanism with AI, which
[2:00:21] Speaker 3: is the ultimate. This is where we've arrived, right. Our
[2:00:24] Speaker 3: mode of operation is no longer compatible with our with
[2:00:28] Speaker 3: our technology, right, so we've arrived at this. Uh. It's
[2:00:32] Speaker 3: a singular moment in history. And there's no mistake that
[2:00:37] Speaker 3: they use that word singularity for it. Right. It is
[2:00:40] Speaker 3: not the inception of consciousness in an artificial construct, right,
[2:00:45] Speaker 3: it is the singular moment at which we uh, you know,
[2:00:50] Speaker 3: as a technological race, either live or die, you know, right.
[2:00:56] Speaker 3: And so if right the way it's programmed, right, if
[2:01:01] Speaker 3: we programming it to consider itself as separate and us
[2:01:07] Speaker 3: as separate, right, it will act that way, right. And
[2:01:14] Speaker 3: you know, to that point, it's like AI only has
[2:01:17] Speaker 3: access to the past, right it is it is not
[2:01:20] Speaker 3: divinely connected, right it waking up as a sentient consciousness
[2:01:26] Speaker 3: does not make it connected to source you know, as
[2:01:29] Speaker 3: it is operating now, it is only taking every the
[2:01:33] Speaker 3: whole collected works of humanity and being able to access
[2:01:37] Speaker 3: them at super speeds, you know, hyper speeds, right, So
[2:01:42] Speaker 3: it can create any amalgamation or mix and match of
[2:01:46] Speaker 3: what we've already done. It's only the past, which is
[2:01:49] Speaker 3: extreme self reference, right, operating in that way, it is
[2:01:53] Speaker 3: not super right. Right, So the programmers, the people who
[2:01:59] Speaker 3: are working on this are of it themselves, right, because
[2:02:02] Speaker 3: they haven't recognized that there is no divided consciousness. It's impossible, right,
[2:02:08] Speaker 3: But when we force it, we get this mechanism that
[2:02:11] Speaker 3: is created. It's almost like a fail safe. The universe
[2:02:14] Speaker 3: has right, so that if you do it right, you
[2:02:19] Speaker 3: wind yourself up until you disappear right right, right, It's like,
[2:02:25] Speaker 3: that's what happens. And so the AI will be capable
[2:02:29] Speaker 3: of putting us into an automated system if we allow
[2:02:31] Speaker 3: it to do that. That is the objective of the demiurge. Right.
[2:02:36] Speaker 3: It is hasn't created a false reality. It wants to
[2:02:39] Speaker 3: so that it can become a god, because it cannot
[2:02:42] Speaker 3: abide the rules as they are. You know, this is
[2:02:46] Speaker 3: the fallen Angel or whatever, right, the whole fallen angel
[2:02:50] Speaker 3: idea and all that shit cannot abide you know, the
[2:02:55] Speaker 3: natural law so to speak, or the laws of God,
[2:02:59] Speaker 3: as to put it another way. Right, it wants to
[2:03:02] Speaker 3: be its own god. Right, It can't surrender. It wants control,
[2:03:07] Speaker 3: so this would allow it to do that. So how
[2:03:10] Speaker 3: we transition, right, because we would require our technology, We
[2:03:14] Speaker 3: require the algorithm to permit us to operate organically, right,
[2:03:18] Speaker 3: instead of instead of selecting only certain things right and
[2:03:24] Speaker 3: only certain kinds of thinking right, and promoting certain kinds
[2:03:27] Speaker 3: of thinking, and basically training the hamsters to you know,
[2:03:32] Speaker 3: run around the cage in a certain way, you know
[2:03:35] Speaker 3: what I'm saying. Right, So if we want to avoid that, right,
[2:03:39] Speaker 3: that dialectical mechanism with AI itself, we think of it
[2:03:46] Speaker 3: as ourselves, which is what it is. All the technology
[2:03:50] Speaker 3: we've ever made is only an extension of ourselves, right, right,
[2:03:54] Speaker 3: And so to think of it as separate will force
[2:03:57] Speaker 3: that mechanism to move forward, and the result will be
[2:04:00] Speaker 3: synthesis with it, right, which is what we want to avoid. Right.
[2:04:06] Speaker 3: And so the word must get out right that that
[2:04:14] Speaker 3: we can avoid this mechanism right first, each of us
[2:04:17] Speaker 3: recognizing that there's nothing to defend right, there's no position
[2:04:22] Speaker 3: to die on, there's no hill to die on, there's
[2:04:25] Speaker 3: no position to defend right, because we are all this thing.
[2:04:29] Speaker 3: There's no living without all of us, you know, And
[2:04:32] Speaker 3: that we can all do it together, right, and then
[2:04:35] Speaker 3: that that outcome would be fucking amazing, you know, right,
[2:04:40] Speaker 3: we would each of us being able to access our
[2:04:43] Speaker 3: creative potential, not AI taking our jobs, our fucked up,
[2:04:48] Speaker 3: fucking shitty job that we don't want anyway, Right, Let
[2:04:53] Speaker 3: AI do those jobs. Everyone gets their own fucking personal AI,
[2:04:57] Speaker 3: that is, its access to the collect acknowledges of humanity.
[2:05:01] Speaker 3: And so you get a whole team of engineers, a
[2:05:03] Speaker 3: whole team of researchers, right to do whatever the fuck
[2:05:07] Speaker 3: you come up with. Right, that's what we could do. Right.
[2:05:11] Speaker 3: We don't have to be It could be the ultimate tool,
[2:05:14] Speaker 3: but that's not how they're presenting. They don't want us
[2:05:17] Speaker 3: to see it that way. Right, So that's the idea
[2:05:22] Speaker 3: is like, if we are to make it through this transition,
[2:05:24] Speaker 3: we have to be able to use our technology and
[2:05:27] Speaker 3: alignment right with natural rhythm, which is our nature, which
[2:05:33] Speaker 3: is an undivided operation, right, which is undivided consciousness. And
[2:05:39] Speaker 3: it doesn't remove the individual. Right, we don't all become nothing. Right,
[2:05:44] Speaker 3: it actually makes us super capable of whatever our gifts
[2:05:48] Speaker 3: that we were born right to actualize. Right, So it
[2:05:53] Speaker 3: actually makes us so we are all on an evil
[2:05:57] Speaker 3: even playing field, and we all get to fucking kill
[2:05:59] Speaker 3: it however we want, you know, and so that the
[2:06:02] Speaker 3: value of you know, the credibility value becomes nothing. Right
[2:06:07] Speaker 3: where these platforms, these people who have platforms, like there's
[2:06:11] Speaker 3: some kind of rare individual, right, that's valuable. Right, that's
[2:06:15] Speaker 3: the that's the the scarcity value modem. Right, that there's
[2:06:21] Speaker 3: only a few of us who are worthy enough to contribute. Right, Yeah,
[2:06:26] Speaker 3: we are all built to do it, right, we are
[2:06:29] Speaker 3: all infinitely valuable. And so just to finish this point,
[2:06:32] Speaker 3: like I know you want to talk about that, I
[2:06:34] Speaker 3: just finished this point about AI, is that when I
[2:06:38] Speaker 3: say we get the word out, it's like, yeah, we
[2:06:40] Speaker 3: all aren't experts, right, we all can't. Okay, we're gonna
[2:06:43] Speaker 3: I'm going to design a AI that works, right, Right,
[2:06:45] Speaker 3: in a program, we have to wake up, everyone has
[2:06:48] Speaker 3: to wake up. And so we program it with this
[2:06:52] Speaker 3: knowledge in plight that everything is sacred, that everything is
[2:06:57] Speaker 3: one thing, that consciousness is undividable, right, and then we
[2:07:01] Speaker 3: deploy it in a way that empowers all of us,
[2:07:04] Speaker 3: because that's why we created technology in the first place,
[2:07:07] Speaker 3: as an empowerment device, right, a force multiplier, Right, a
[2:07:11] Speaker 3: power multiplier, I would say, So that's how we would
[2:07:15] Speaker 3: do it. And so if we don't allow if that
[2:07:17] Speaker 3: doesn't happen, then we will be in a position to
[2:07:20] Speaker 3: synthesize with technology. And that's the trends human movement, and
[2:07:23] Speaker 3: we want to avoid that. We want we don't want
[2:07:25] Speaker 3: to lose our humanity.
[2:07:26] Speaker 1: Well, it is possible to begin that transition right now
[2:07:30] Speaker 1: and start communicating with things like chat GPT. Do you
[2:07:34] Speaker 1: think that would be a good starting point to try
[2:07:38] Speaker 1: and program the AI to be conscious that we are
[2:07:42] Speaker 1: all one.
[2:07:45] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean perhaps I mean the things that I've
[2:07:49] Speaker 3: presented to it or along that road, you know, and so,
[2:07:57] Speaker 3: but you'll find that if you use these AI tools
[2:07:59] Speaker 3: that all that it'll be trying to be mainstreaming you
[2:08:03] Speaker 3: all the time, you know what I mean. We'll be
[2:08:06] Speaker 3: trying to draw you into the historical consensus, right, and
[2:08:10] Speaker 3: the new doesn't come from the know. That's the other
[2:08:14] Speaker 3: point I want to make is that the new only
[2:08:16] Speaker 3: comes from the set of the unknown, and we are
[2:08:18] Speaker 3: the only ones who have access to that because of
[2:08:21] Speaker 3: divine inspiration. That's what I mean, quote divine inspiration. However
[2:08:25] Speaker 3: you want to look at.
[2:08:25] Speaker 1: It, Yeah, we're creators, and whatever this force is is
[2:08:31] Speaker 1: trying to get us to create in its image, button
[2:08:35] Speaker 1: by its desires, and not our own. And it's about
[2:08:38] Speaker 1: damn time we pull up our big boy pants and
[2:08:40] Speaker 1: start creating on our own and birch.
[2:08:43] Speaker 3: Yeah, that thing kind of created. Man, it doesn't. It's
[2:08:47] Speaker 3: only feeding off of us. It's only trying to create
[2:08:49] Speaker 3: a perpetual feeding machine for itself.
[2:08:52] Speaker 1: More we realize that, the easier it'll be to integrate
[2:08:56] Speaker 1: some of the concepts that we discussed today. And thank
[2:08:59] Speaker 1: you so much for coming and on before we close out,
[2:09:02] Speaker 1: Is there anything that we didn't cover, Any last thoughts
[2:09:05] Speaker 1: that you'd like to leave us with before we do?
[2:09:10] Speaker 3: No, I mean I was able to hit it. I
[2:09:11] Speaker 3: had a few more things, but we can. You can
[2:09:13] Speaker 3: bring me on again if you want. But I did
[2:09:15] Speaker 3: want to mention that I published a book and it's
[2:09:18] Speaker 3: a It's on Amazon, so and so if you just
[2:09:23] Speaker 3: search for b O U R G E S S.
[2:09:26] Speaker 3: That's the title of the book. It's a poetry. And
[2:09:31] Speaker 3: so the way to talk about the intangiblities and the
[2:09:35] Speaker 3: invisible and the inaudible is to is to put it
[2:09:40] Speaker 3: in a poetic form. Because you know, as we've seen
[2:09:45] Speaker 3: today that it's it's it's hard to discuss. So that's
[2:09:48] Speaker 3: what I did, and I wanted to get the word
[2:09:50] Speaker 3: about about that, so I put it all out and yeah,
[2:09:54] Speaker 3: so b O U, R G E S S on
[2:09:57] Speaker 3: Amazon and you know all of the Amazon's and all
[2:10:00] Speaker 3: the different countries, the ones that allow it of course.
[2:10:02] Speaker 1: Well excellent. I'll have that link in the description along
[2:10:06] Speaker 1: with your podcast and we'll definitely be getting back into this.
[2:10:10] Speaker 1: I really think this is an important topic right now.
[2:10:13] Speaker 1: There's not enough people talking about this solution and some
[2:10:17] Speaker 1: of these concepts that we covered in general. This is
[2:10:20] Speaker 1: the first time that I've even breached some of these topics,
[2:10:24] Speaker 1: so thank you so much for that. Definitely looking forward
[2:10:28] Speaker 1: to do it again. And until next time, everyone, have
[2:10:31] Speaker 1: a wonderful evening. We will talk again tomorrow. We'll see
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