# FKN Classics Double Feature! Melissa Dawn - Jonestown Cult | Jordan Sather - UFO Psyops

An episode of [Forbidden Knowledge News](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1470192028), 20 Jun 2026, 1 h 59 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/72611518/classicsmdsath_sd_360p_medium_fr30_20062026.mp3

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## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Enjoy these back to back classic Forbidden Knowledge News episodes. Today,
[0:10] Speaker 1: I want to welcome back to the show, Melissa Dawn.
[0:12] Speaker 1: She has studied history, art, folklore, and culture most of
[0:16] Speaker 1: her life as a passionate hobby. Academically, she studied World
[0:20] Speaker 1: Wars one two, Russian History and Western Civilization and University
[0:26] Speaker 1: and has her degree in graphic design. She began podcasting
[0:31] Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen on several shows, including The Secret Door
[0:36] Speaker 1: Deep Program podcast, and she now produces gen X News
[0:41] Speaker 1: to discuss the almost biblical revelations she is seeing in society. Melissa,
[0:47] Speaker 1: welcome back. How you doing.
[0:49] Speaker 2: I am doing good. I am a little tired. I
[0:53] Speaker 2: apologized to everybody, didn't sleep much last night, so I'm
[0:56] Speaker 2: gonna do the best I can.
[0:58] Speaker 1: Well, we appreciate you being here to do this, and
[1:01] Speaker 1: I'm sure it's going to be wonderful. Always love our conversations.
[1:05] Speaker 1: And today we're going to get into some of the
[1:07] Speaker 1: research you've done into Jim Jones and the People's Temple cult,
[1:12] Speaker 1: which it's been only in recent years that I've become
[1:17] Speaker 1: more interested in these crazy charismatic cult leaders, mainly because
[1:23] Speaker 1: it's really difficult to avoid cults these days and cult
[1:27] Speaker 1: like activities in our modern age. Of course certain religions,
[1:31] Speaker 1: but now politics, the medical system, edication system, most of
[1:35] Speaker 1: our institutions at the least have cult like aspects.
[1:40] Speaker 3: But like I.
[1:41] Speaker 1: Said earlier, I'll be learning about this today. Myself, I
[1:45] Speaker 1: only really know the basic surface information surrounding this event,
[1:49] Speaker 1: maybe less, so I'm looking forward to learning more today.
[1:53] Speaker 1: Before we get into this, remind the audience a little
[1:55] Speaker 1: bit about yourself and where they can find all your content.
[2:00] Speaker 2: Well, I mean, my podcasting kind of career started by
[2:05] Speaker 2: fluke as I was writing on paranormal stuff and I
[2:08] Speaker 2: helped behind the scenes of a podcast called Folklore Podcast,
[2:11] Speaker 2: and then eventually I went into my own and my
[2:15] Speaker 2: first podcast was like really dreadful, like qual it. I
[2:18] Speaker 2: learned so much and I just kept doing it. And
[2:20] Speaker 2: then when I moved to America, I was trying to
[2:23] Speaker 2: get into the paranormal stuff again, but I did. I decided,
[2:26] Speaker 2: you know, it's more lively if I can do daily
[2:29] Speaker 2: events and political stuff and cults kind of fall into
[2:33] Speaker 2: that and MK ultra and stuff like that. So that's
[2:36] Speaker 2: what I'm doing now. And of course, if you guys
[2:39] Speaker 2: ever want to watch live streams. I usually do them
[2:41] Speaker 2: on x rumble, and I was doing TikTok, but the
[2:45] Speaker 2: gaming is seven day ban so x rumble and YouTube
[2:48] Speaker 2: and simply all the links to anything you need to
[2:51] Speaker 2: know about me is on the website. It's jen X
[2:53] Speaker 2: on x dot com. So the live stream links are
[2:58] Speaker 2: there and also the audio podcast links are there, and
[3:01] Speaker 2: you know, and it will keep developing. So talk about
[3:05] Speaker 2: some strange politics and conspiracy theory, maybe even some more
[3:12] Speaker 2: spiritual stuff. And definitely cults and anything can become a cult.
[3:17] Speaker 2: That's what's religious are and strange. Anything can become a cult,
[3:20] Speaker 2: I mean. And not all cults are like evil. Some
[3:24] Speaker 2: of them are really benign, and the best of the
[3:26] Speaker 2: cults can become culture unfortunately, but the really bad cults, obviously,
[3:32] Speaker 2: what we're going to talk about today is what people
[3:35] Speaker 2: are really familiar with, is these really malignant, evil, psychopathic cults.
[3:40] Speaker 1: Right, And as we're coming to learn in our modern
[3:44] Speaker 1: age about many of our historical events, there's usually much
[3:48] Speaker 1: more to it than presented in our history books and
[3:52] Speaker 1: on the surface, and oftentimes with these more malevolent, powerful
[3:59] Speaker 1: people that grasped the attention of the public, there are
[4:04] Speaker 1: often cia handprints in this and like you said, mk
[4:08] Speaker 1: ultra aspects, so we'll get into that as well. Very
[4:12] Speaker 1: interesting stuff behind all of it. So where did you
[4:16] Speaker 1: start when looking into Jim Jones? Maybe we could give
[4:19] Speaker 1: everybody a little overview of the story.
[4:23] Speaker 2: Well, of course I was doing shows on cults and
[4:27] Speaker 2: Jim Jones is one of the famous, infamous I should say,
[4:33] Speaker 2: cult leaders. And of course, whenever I start looking at
[4:36] Speaker 2: a figure, you're gonna have to go back to the roots,
[4:40] Speaker 2: and you know, where were they born, what was her
[4:43] Speaker 2: childhood like, what kind of person were they like as
[4:45] Speaker 2: a child. And of course when you go back to
[4:47] Speaker 2: Jim Jones early you see like an alcoholic father, his
[4:53] Speaker 2: mother was Cherokee Indian. They were very impoverished. His mother
[4:57] Speaker 2: was also the sole provider of their family, and he
[4:59] Speaker 2: was very neglected, left on his own. He was was
[5:04] Speaker 2: born in nineteen thirty one, before World War two, so
[5:09] Speaker 2: he would have been young boy during the war and
[5:14] Speaker 2: he grew up he was actually a very enigmatic kid,
[5:18] Speaker 2: like had that preacher personality very early on. He had
[5:21] Speaker 2: signs of Yeah, he had signs of psychopathy really early on,
[5:26] Speaker 2: and it's probably because of the neglect and whatever and
[5:29] Speaker 2: there could be some genetic stuff. I mean, we don't
[5:31] Speaker 2: really know. So it's just like when I came on
[5:33] Speaker 2: here and talked about Ted Bundy, there was things in
[5:36] Speaker 2: Ted Bundy's childhood that said, while there's something that's wrong here.
[5:41] Speaker 2: And Ted Bundy was born a little later, but they
[5:44] Speaker 2: still he had this troubled childhood single mother. And the
[5:47] Speaker 2: same happens with Jim Jones. That doesn't mean everybody who
[5:52] Speaker 2: has a single mother is going to be a psychopath.
[5:54] Speaker 2: That's not what I'm saying. It's just in this instance,
[5:57] Speaker 2: he seemed to have all the the elements that just
[6:01] Speaker 2: added up to that kind of personality where he was.
[6:04] Speaker 2: He's a very hypnotic speaker. He would perform funerals for
[6:09] Speaker 2: pets and preach that's crazy.
[6:12] Speaker 1: And he may have actually killed the pets that he
[6:16] Speaker 1: performed the funerals for.
[6:18] Speaker 2: He may have. I don't know how true that is
[6:20] Speaker 2: or it's just myth, but it stated. And we know
[6:23] Speaker 2: that people who have a psychopathic nature will often children
[6:27] Speaker 2: like that when they're young, will we'll experiments on little
[6:30] Speaker 2: pets or lizards or birds or something, you know, stuff
[6:33] Speaker 2: like that. Wow, And very early on, I mean when
[6:37] Speaker 2: you go see who Jim's Jones eventual target is when
[6:42] Speaker 2: he becomes a cult leader. It's there early on, he
[6:45] Speaker 2: was preaching to minority black communities, people who would have
[6:48] Speaker 2: been affected by, you know, some pretty atrocious laws, and
[6:53] Speaker 2: so he would preach to them, and he said he
[6:55] Speaker 2: identified with their plights, you know, because he was impoverished.
[6:59] Speaker 2: So he had them these early on stuff. These things
[7:03] Speaker 2: that we're gonna notice later on when he's like this
[7:06] Speaker 2: full blown preacher with a lot of power, they're there
[7:10] Speaker 2: when he's a little boy.
[7:12] Speaker 1: Now. I notice oftentimes with some of these characters that
[7:17] Speaker 1: they may have intelligence in their family lineage or some
[7:22] Speaker 1: sort of military background in their family lineage lineage. Was
[7:26] Speaker 1: this true for Jim at.
[7:28] Speaker 2: All, not that I'm aware of. Okay, his early he
[7:36] Speaker 2: got into communism pretty like in the fifties, nineteen fifty one.
[7:42] Speaker 2: He's young, He's like twenty years old, and he was
[7:44] Speaker 2: attending regular Communist meetings. I don't like I said his
[7:49] Speaker 2: father was an alcoholic. I'm not sure that his father.
[7:53] Speaker 2: It wouldn't surprise me, and that's something I should actually
[7:56] Speaker 2: have a look at.
[7:58] Speaker 3: But his.
[8:01] Speaker 1: Well, actually, yeah, it wouldn't surprise me either. There's something
[8:06] Speaker 1: in that family history.
[8:07] Speaker 2: Yeah that I did not find anything about that. Let
[8:13] Speaker 2: me see. I'm okay. So this is interesting, says is
[8:22] Speaker 2: the reason his father was an alcoholic he had he
[8:25] Speaker 2: was in World War One, so he was a veteran,
[8:27] Speaker 2: and he had he probably had severe PTSD breathing problems
[8:33] Speaker 2: that he sustained from chemical weapons attacks.
[8:35] Speaker 1: So there it is, right and along along those lines
[8:39] Speaker 1: with some of these stories that even if it seemed
[8:43] Speaker 1: something as innocent as the father was in World War two,
[8:46] Speaker 1: just a military veteran, there may be other ties to
[8:50] Speaker 1: this individual that have more powerful links and more malevolent
[9:00] Speaker 1: tensions behind what the relationship with the family is. Things
[9:04] Speaker 1: along those lines. But just something to look into. Very
[9:07] Speaker 1: interesting though.
[9:09] Speaker 2: Yeah, and another thing to know. When he was young,
[9:13] Speaker 2: he used to listen to a lot of Hitler's speeches
[9:17] Speaker 2: take it or leave it, Take it or leave it.
[9:21] Speaker 2: And you know, one of the things that nobody talks
[9:23] Speaker 2: about is like his like his father had chemical weapons
[9:26] Speaker 2: used on him, Right, that's why he was disabled and
[9:28] Speaker 2: an alcoholic. We don't know what those chemicals effects they
[9:32] Speaker 2: have on the genetics. And then you go and have
[9:34] Speaker 2: a child. We don't know. We have no idea if
[9:36] Speaker 2: those if it's like epigenetics, we have no idea if
[9:39] Speaker 2: that would pass on to your child and cause some
[9:42] Speaker 2: kind of functioning problem. We don't know, right, So, like
[9:46] Speaker 2: we have no clue how chemicals in your body affects
[9:50] Speaker 2: future generations because you you know, pass it on through
[9:55] Speaker 2: your eggs or sperm, whatever it is, right, we don't know,
[9:59] Speaker 2: right man.
[10:01] Speaker 1: That's so crazy, mm hmm.
[10:03] Speaker 2: So, and yeah, those wars were pretty brutal. And like
[10:09] Speaker 2: I said, Jim Jones was a preacher kid, very nomadic
[10:15] Speaker 2: personality from the beginning. And then he gets into communism,
[10:18] Speaker 2: and I think I think he was attracted to communism
[10:23] Speaker 2: because he's he lived through like a Jim Crow period
[10:25] Speaker 2: and he's he in his mind, he's seen injustices and
[10:28] Speaker 2: he thought communism was the solution to that. He does
[10:32] Speaker 2: start as a pastor in the fifties and he had
[10:36] Speaker 2: his own he was at a Somerset self side Methodist church,
[10:40] Speaker 2: so he was later you know, he starts small and
[10:45] Speaker 2: then he says, he claims that he leaves these churches
[10:49] Speaker 2: because they were forbade integration with minorities. But I often
[10:53] Speaker 2: wonder if he left those churches because he was inappropriate
[10:58] Speaker 2: and they called him out because oftentimes psychopaths will say,
[11:03] Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm a victim. I left because this
[11:05] Speaker 2: is a horrible place. But they actually they cause problems
[11:08] Speaker 2: in groups, and they don't take instruction well, and they
[11:11] Speaker 2: want to be They want to control certain groups, so
[11:14] Speaker 2: if they can't, they'll leave and they'll make up that
[11:15] Speaker 2: that group is bad. It's like a weird projection. So
[11:18] Speaker 2: I often wonder he also interesting enough. He started off
[11:22] Speaker 2: after he left this church. He would go door to
[11:24] Speaker 2: door selling monkeys, raise monkeys.
[11:28] Speaker 1: And anybody to me that raises monkeys is a red
[11:32] Speaker 1: flag and I probably wouldn't hang out with them.
[11:34] Speaker 2: But flying monkeys, yeah, well that's how he got in
[11:40] Speaker 2: to raise funds. He was go door to door selling monkeys,
[11:44] Speaker 2: and with his charm and wit just I don't know,
[11:46] Speaker 2: get people interested in what he was doing and what
[11:48] Speaker 2: he was about. And like I said, he studied Hitler.
[11:51] Speaker 2: He also studied this guy called Father Divine. I mean,
[11:53] Speaker 2: you can look him up.
[11:55] Speaker 1: It seems to be a really strange sounds like a
[11:58] Speaker 1: cult leader.
[11:58] Speaker 2: Strange strang in figure. Yeah, Father Divine would instruct on
[12:04] Speaker 2: how to manipulate members and make them subservient. So he
[12:08] Speaker 2: learned a lot of that from I wouldn't even say Hitler,
[12:11] Speaker 2: I'd say he learned a lot from Father Divine. A lot.
[12:17] Speaker 2: Especially Father Divine instructed about finding or creating the enemy
[12:23] Speaker 2: within your group to control people. It's an interesting concept
[12:28] Speaker 2: that you will see. And so then we guys say,
[12:31] Speaker 2: was Father Divine hooked in with the CIA, r FBI,
[12:34] Speaker 2: know where was he learning these tactics?
[12:36] Speaker 1: Right?
[12:36] Speaker 2: Because I'm sure these these intelligence agencies did that, like fine,
[12:40] Speaker 2: like create an enemy within it?
[12:42] Speaker 1: Right? Because why would someone so young be so obsessed
[12:48] Speaker 1: with manipulation and gaining control over people's minds and things
[12:53] Speaker 1: like that. That's just seems like something you learned from somewhere.
[12:57] Speaker 2: It's definitely. But I feel, like I said, I think
[13:00] Speaker 2: the basis of his personality is I don't know if
[13:04] Speaker 2: he went through violence with his father. I'm assuming there
[13:07] Speaker 2: could have been some in the nineteen thirties. His father
[13:10] Speaker 2: had PTSD, probably from the more alcoholism. It wouldn't surprise me.
[13:15] Speaker 2: But and that alone can make you become a sociopathic.
[13:22] Speaker 1: What I understand, trauma is like the main trigger for
[13:24] Speaker 1: these MKLTRA people.
[13:26] Speaker 2: Yeah, trauma is mind control. Trauma opens the ability to
[13:32] Speaker 2: reshape the personality and the brain and the thinking process
[13:35] Speaker 2: to control how you think. That's why they do all
[13:38] Speaker 2: this stuff to us on the TVs and they show
[13:41] Speaker 2: us all these you know, styops or October seventh or nine.
[13:45] Speaker 2: So that's why they keep repeating it on the TV
[13:47] Speaker 2: to traumatize us. So then they can put out their
[13:49] Speaker 2: official narrative and what they want to go and do next.
[13:52] Speaker 2: So we go along with it. It's what it's all about.
[13:57] Speaker 2: And I'm sure Jim Jones is practicing that. But first
[14:00] Speaker 2: you've got to create an enemy. And that's what all
[14:04] Speaker 2: great intelligence agencies do. They create an enemy and they
[14:09] Speaker 2: then they tell you, look that there's an enemy, but
[14:11] Speaker 2: they were funding the enemy all along. I mean we
[14:13] Speaker 2: can point to that in our history, Cia, Masad, whatever
[14:17] Speaker 2: intelligence A, probably the KGB does it. You could probably
[14:20] Speaker 2: point to that left, right and center. How they do
[14:22] Speaker 2: that in Jim Jones is yeah, he's saying, Father Divine
[14:27] Speaker 2: he learned it from. But I have a feeling that
[14:31] Speaker 2: you know, these agencies are into all sorts of things, university, religion,
[14:35] Speaker 2: you know, activism. They stick their paws everywhere, and so yeah,
[14:42] Speaker 2: he starts to create his own church. That's how he
[14:46] Speaker 2: does it. He also created the concept of the Rainbow
[14:51] Speaker 2: family back in nineteen fifteen four he started adopting children
[14:56] Speaker 2: with different racial backgrounds. This is he's building his persona
[15:01] Speaker 2: that he wants to be known as. That's psychopaths, narcissist.
[15:04] Speaker 2: They have this real hideous thing beneath them, the shadow
[15:07] Speaker 2: they had, and they build a persona. So he's like,
[15:09] Speaker 2: I'm the Rainbow Family. I'm this really great person I
[15:13] Speaker 2: help adopted children. That doesn't mean that all people who
[15:16] Speaker 2: adopt children are horrible people creating a false persona. This
[15:19] Speaker 2: is just about Jim Jones specifically. And then he what
[15:25] Speaker 2: he's doing conventions, road trips, you know, he starts his
[15:29] Speaker 2: own church and he is, by the way, this is
[15:33] Speaker 2: still in Indiana. He's from mccrete, Indiana. I forgot to
[15:38] Speaker 2: say that. And so he's doing this in that area
[15:40] Speaker 2: in Indiana, creating his own kind of Methodist Baptist church.
[15:45] Speaker 2: And initially he's preaching, you know, gospel about Jesus. But
[15:51] Speaker 2: that starts to change. And I don't have this in
[15:54] Speaker 2: my notes here, but I think what starts to happen
[15:57] Speaker 2: with him as he gets more control, and he creates
[15:59] Speaker 2: his own church and create is. He starts to use
[16:03] Speaker 2: these lessons from like Father Divine to create the enemy within.
[16:07] Speaker 2: He starts to.
[16:11] Speaker 3: The church.
[16:12] Speaker 2: I think at one point they find it with swastika's
[16:15] Speaker 2: all over it, and he starts telling his members, well, look,
[16:19] Speaker 2: we're not safe here. There's all these racists in Indiana.
[16:22] Speaker 2: We've got to leave. We're gonna go to California, that's
[16:26] Speaker 2: where things are happening, and we got to leave because
[16:29] Speaker 2: we're threatened. We've got this enemy. There's all these hillbilly
[16:32] Speaker 2: hicks and none of it. People like will say that,
[16:36] Speaker 2: But I personally think he painted the swastikas himself because
[16:41] Speaker 2: we know he's doing this create the enemy within. He
[16:44] Speaker 2: wants to control his members. He wants them, he needs
[16:48] Speaker 2: their energy to keep fueling. He knows he needs member,
[16:50] Speaker 2: he knows he needs body counts. He needs their energy
[16:54] Speaker 2: to fuel and keep his church going. Most of his members,
[16:57] Speaker 2: like seventy to eighty percent, were always Black America, who,
[17:00] Speaker 2: by the way, a lot of them had their own businesses,
[17:03] Speaker 2: their own money, their own pensions. They were independent, and
[17:07] Speaker 2: they give that all right up to him. But he
[17:09] Speaker 2: convinces them that they've got this horrible thing and they're
[17:12] Speaker 2: not safe and it will be safer in glorious old
[17:16] Speaker 2: California to move over to San Francisco and start the
[17:20] Speaker 2: People's Temple. And that's what starts happening, I believe. And
[17:25] Speaker 2: you know, here's the interesting thing. Early on, even in
[17:28] Speaker 2: the sixties, him and his family were going down to
[17:30] Speaker 2: Brazil and South America and testing his message down there,
[17:34] Speaker 2: and he was always scouting out locations in South America
[17:37] Speaker 2: even further away. So he isolates his members from their family,
[17:42] Speaker 2: brings them to California, and he's always looking in South America.
[17:45] Speaker 2: Which is interesting that this wasn't just a last minute thing.
[17:48] Speaker 2: This guy is looking all the time. Yeah. Yeah, he's
[17:55] Speaker 2: looking all the time about how to get people more
[18:00] Speaker 2: isolated from a Western society, a modern society, taking over
[18:05] Speaker 2: their pensions, making them. This is called one oh one.
[18:09] Speaker 2: You know, it starts off nice and you know, yeah,
[18:11] Speaker 2: this is called one oh one where he's getting them
[18:14] Speaker 2: to give them the pensions. I mean a lot of
[18:16] Speaker 2: these people were not stupid. Everyone thinks cult followers are stupid,
[18:20] Speaker 2: and that's just not true. Most of them are just
[18:23] Speaker 2: empty and they're maybe at a place in their life
[18:25] Speaker 2: and they want something more. They feel like they need
[18:27] Speaker 2: something spiritual or something to be given to them by
[18:30] Speaker 2: somebody else. They don't feel like they can attain it.
[18:32] Speaker 2: And there's someone like Jim Jones saying, I have, You
[18:36] Speaker 2: know he has, because this is enigmatic personality. He's a
[18:40] Speaker 2: leadership position. He's you know, he's preaching, he's he's it
[18:44] Speaker 2: seems to have the answer, simple answer for all of
[18:47] Speaker 2: your problems. And all you have to do is you know,
[18:52] Speaker 2: and you get tied up, you get trauma bonded, emotionally attached,
[18:56] Speaker 2: and next thing you know, he's controlling all your money.
[18:59] Speaker 2: But he did offer to take care of them. He's like,
[19:01] Speaker 2: if you give me all this stuff, we'll give you dental,
[19:04] Speaker 2: we'll give you this. You know, he's promising to act
[19:06] Speaker 2: like the government, like a communist, right, he's using that
[19:10] Speaker 2: communist stuff. So he's getting them to give up their independence.
[19:14] Speaker 2: And this is why no one should ever want the
[19:17] Speaker 2: government or anyone to have too much power over their finances. Huge,
[19:22] Speaker 2: huge stuff. So and he originally, like I said, he
[19:25] Speaker 2: goes by the Bible, he preaches Jesus and he sticks
[19:28] Speaker 2: with that. But it starts switching once they get to
[19:32] Speaker 2: San Francisco, and San Francisco ironically, I believe at the time,
[19:36] Speaker 2: I don't know if it still is, but it was
[19:38] Speaker 2: a headquarters for the CIA. They were operating in San Francisco,
[19:41] Speaker 2: So I find it interesting. Yes, it was the hub.
[19:45] Speaker 2: I understand it had Hayde Ashbury. I understand that it
[19:48] Speaker 2: was a lot of people were heading to San Francisco.
[19:51] Speaker 2: But it's just so interesting that the CIA was operating there, right,
[19:57] Speaker 2: very interesting.
[19:58] Speaker 1: That whole area is like a hub of culture creation
[20:03] Speaker 1: and mind control, especially for the entertainment industry.
[20:09] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And I mean there was a whole bunch
[20:14] Speaker 2: of other type of gurus there that weren't so much
[20:17] Speaker 2: as culty and controlling people like what was the And
[20:20] Speaker 2: there's tons of activists there. There was like Harvey Milk,
[20:24] Speaker 2: he was gay right activating activists. There was Alan Watt,
[20:30] Speaker 2: he had been a former Christian, he was now a Buddhist.
[20:33] Speaker 2: He had an enigmatic character who would preach Buddhism and
[20:37] Speaker 2: instructs spirituality that way. But he's an alcoholic too. So
[20:45] Speaker 2: all these people going, I have your answer, here's just
[20:47] Speaker 2: mid nine, and I gotta have a bottle of wine. Right,
[20:50] Speaker 2: it's really crazy. But he starts to switch. He actually
[20:55] Speaker 2: switches and starts trashing Christianity. He starts trashing Jesus and
[21:00] Speaker 2: figures like that and telling them he's the reincarnation of that.
[21:04] Speaker 2: That's your like, that's the false prophety. He tells you,
[21:08] Speaker 2: I'm Jesus, I'm God. You have to worship huge red flag.
[21:12] Speaker 2: But by the time he does that, you're so invested
[21:15] Speaker 2: you don't want to. Nobody wants admit, well, I think
[21:18] Speaker 2: I just got duped. I think I'm an idiot. You know,
[21:22] Speaker 2: they just keep going because they're like, oh, okay, well
[21:25] Speaker 2: you know he's taking care of me thus far. It's
[21:28] Speaker 2: it's interesting. And then, of course Jim Jones doesn't just
[21:33] Speaker 2: stick to being a preacher. At this point, he starts
[21:35] Speaker 2: getting involved in politics, local politics for on behalf of
[21:40] Speaker 2: the Democrats in trade for money, power and positions. So
[21:47] Speaker 2: you start his mask slowly starts to slip, and you
[21:51] Speaker 2: see that all of his rainbow family and equal rights
[21:55] Speaker 2: and I want you know, Black Americans to have equal
[21:58] Speaker 2: rights is not about that was an act. It's all
[22:01] Speaker 2: about more power, more connections for Jim Jones and I've
[22:06] Speaker 2: got to wonder, like, I don't know if Jim Jones
[22:11] Speaker 2: was just you know, this figure who had connections, like
[22:18] Speaker 2: people just really liked him, or was the CIA giving
[22:21] Speaker 2: him connections? Like how was he getting He's got a
[22:24] Speaker 2: list of really famous people, famous politicians that doesn't just
[22:30] Speaker 2: exactly like Willie Brown, you know, like some realief names
[22:36] Speaker 2: that we would know today that he's Jane Fonda, god
[22:43] Speaker 2: Ryanne Feinstein.
[22:44] Speaker 1: Had a few celebrities praising him.
[22:46] Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, mm hmmm. I mean, I'll get into Jimmy Carter.
[22:53] Speaker 2: I mean, he's in with some big people and you
[22:56] Speaker 2: don't just get that way. And I think if he
[22:59] Speaker 2: had any kind of enigmatic personality and they saw anything,
[23:04] Speaker 2: we don't know, I can't trace that he was actually
[23:06] Speaker 2: in MK ultra. I should actually look up if he
[23:09] Speaker 2: actually served any time in any universities or you know,
[23:12] Speaker 2: was any training thing. But he could have been and
[23:14] Speaker 2: they could have saw potential in his personality to control
[23:17] Speaker 2: and manipulate people, right, it's I mean he I mean,
[23:21] Speaker 2: you go watch a video of Jim Jones and you'll
[23:24] Speaker 2: see exactly how alluring and enigmatic. You can understand how
[23:30] Speaker 2: people were taken by him, especially at the time where
[23:34] Speaker 2: people didn't know anything about cults, you know, and TV
[23:37] Speaker 2: was rather new. TV was totally different. You had limited TV,
[23:40] Speaker 2: and the news media wouldn't have reported on it anyways,
[23:43] Speaker 2: because they'll just tell you know, they'll they'll tell you
[23:46] Speaker 2: what they want you to know, not the scary, real
[23:48] Speaker 2: stuff that's going on. But you can I can understand
[23:52] Speaker 2: how people were persuaded by him and in awe of him,
[23:55] Speaker 2: and it still happens today with public figures, people with
[23:58] Speaker 2: celebrity worship all the time.
[24:00] Speaker 1: Yep. Unfortunate, but that's starting to slowly change as some
[24:06] Speaker 1: of the dark information starts to come out about how
[24:09] Speaker 1: these businesses are fundamentally run, the people behind it and
[24:12] Speaker 1: what their intentions are. So some very interesting things happening
[24:16] Speaker 1: there too.
[24:18] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And Jim Jones still at this point. So
[24:22] Speaker 2: he always makes sure that people see him doing humanitarian work.
[24:27] Speaker 2: And that's important to narcissists and psychopath is to be
[24:31] Speaker 2: seen in their promotional as this really good community leader,
[24:36] Speaker 2: self sacrificing, you know, but underneath it all, it's all
[24:42] Speaker 2: the members doing all the work. And this is another
[24:44] Speaker 2: attribute of the cult is he was like these people,
[24:49] Speaker 2: what he said was going to be care for them
[24:51] Speaker 2: now is abuse. They're working around the clock. One of
[24:56] Speaker 2: the things they do to control them now is they
[24:58] Speaker 2: take away the food. They're malnourished, they're overworked, they're exhausted,
[25:02] Speaker 2: and they're doing all the work and he's just you know,
[25:05] Speaker 2: you know, enjoying the fruits of their labor and looking
[25:09] Speaker 2: good on their shoulders. And so that really starts to
[25:13] Speaker 2: happen here, and they say, like politicians, they're just as
[25:18] Speaker 2: crupt as anything. They a lot of them don't care
[25:21] Speaker 2: about people. They care about winning and power, and even
[25:24] Speaker 2: they can even run and make money without winning, you know.
[25:27] Speaker 2: So they start to really see him as a very
[25:30] Speaker 2: valuable asset in terms of shifting election results. One of
[25:37] Speaker 2: the things that Jones starts doing for excuse me politicians
[25:42] Speaker 2: at this point is he takes all of his He
[25:44] Speaker 2: would say he had twenty thousand followers, but it's probably
[25:47] Speaker 2: more like three or four thousand. Narcissists always exaggerate, they
[25:51] Speaker 2: always lie. But he starts taking bus loads of his
[25:55] Speaker 2: followers and sending them to all these events to create
[25:58] Speaker 2: this hype and this energy. So it looks like all
[26:01] Speaker 2: these people are all over the place with these politicians.
[26:04] Speaker 2: But it's the same people. I wonder who's still doing
[26:08] Speaker 2: what party's still doing that. I mean the Democrats today
[26:12] Speaker 2: do that. Maybe the Republicans do, but it's a really
[26:14] Speaker 2: Democrat technique and they got it from Jim Jones. And
[26:18] Speaker 2: Jim Jones would bust his people all over and he
[26:20] Speaker 2: would always leave empty seats on his bus so they
[26:24] Speaker 2: could pick up some more members as they were on this.
[26:27] Speaker 2: So they create this hype. Everyone's like, this is so cool,
[26:31] Speaker 2: this is so amazing, and they're like, hey, we don't
[26:33] Speaker 2: room on our bus for more. And so he's literally
[26:39] Speaker 2: one of the biggest frauds that he did. Voter fraud
[26:44] Speaker 2: was on behalf of Mayor Moscone. I get this right.
[26:48] Speaker 2: It was alleged. They couldn't prove it, but people were
[26:52] Speaker 2: pretty convinced that he had all of his people come
[26:55] Speaker 2: out to vote from out of town using false identities.
[27:01] Speaker 2: He had people vote using dead people's identities. And Mascone
[27:05] Speaker 2: won twelve to one as a mayor in San Francisco
[27:08] Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy five. That is just literally impossible numbers.
[27:12] Speaker 2: It just doesn't happen. A twelve to one win is
[27:15] Speaker 2: like it's just crazy that and that's why people question
[27:21] Speaker 2: the election results. And so I think Jim Jones was
[27:24] Speaker 2: up to no good. And you know, they were using
[27:28] Speaker 2: a lot of sneaky ways to win, including having people
[27:30] Speaker 2: vote that were not from that area. Because of that,
[27:37] Speaker 2: Jim Jones received a permission as chairman of the San
[27:40] Speaker 2: Francisco Housing Authority Commission after the win. So that was
[27:44] Speaker 2: the payoff. He got positions that made him money. Probably
[27:46] Speaker 2: hardly showed up to do anything, but it's when you're
[27:49] Speaker 2: a narcissist. It's not about you know, learning or doing
[27:52] Speaker 2: the job properly. It's about having the position, the money
[27:54] Speaker 2: and the power and the perception of the false identity.
[27:58] Speaker 2: So then of course after that it's onto bigger and
[28:01] Speaker 2: better things. Jimmy Carter shows up in the picture and
[28:06] Speaker 2: Jones meets with Jimmy Carter on a tarmac in San
[28:09] Speaker 2: Francisco Airport. He was introduced to Jimmy through his wife
[28:13] Speaker 2: Rosalind because their campaign was lackluster, to put it best,
[28:19] Speaker 2: so she thought, oh, well, look at this great guy.
[28:21] Speaker 2: He could help us. And so I don't know if
[28:24] Speaker 2: he's the reason that Jimmy Carter won, but I think
[28:28] Speaker 2: He certainly helped because he's at his peak in these years.
[28:33] Speaker 2: We're a few years away from Jonestown and he's at
[28:36] Speaker 2: his peak. People just you know, loved him. But he's
[28:39] Speaker 2: probably actually onto a lot more drugs at this point
[28:42] Speaker 2: and using That's why he had those glasses. You always
[28:44] Speaker 2: didn't see him with the glasses, the dark glasses. He's
[28:47] Speaker 2: covering up because he's drug using. So this is the
[28:51] Speaker 2: political stuff, and I'm telling you he's you know, Angela David.
[28:54] Speaker 2: People were comparisoning him to Albert Einstein and like all
[28:59] Speaker 2: sorts of people, they were trying like this is like
[29:02] Speaker 2: it's crazy stuff. And he was also promoted by Pulitzer
[29:07] Speaker 2: Prize winner Herb Kane. He yeah, it just did sane stuff.
[29:13] Speaker 2: So that's how he gets in politically in positions. But
[29:16] Speaker 2: and of course all along Jim's just abusing his members
[29:21] Speaker 2: and using them for his own purposes. Like I said,
[29:24] Speaker 2: he's got seventy five percent black members, about twenty five
[29:27] Speaker 2: percent were White Americans, and they had all sorts of
[29:31] Speaker 2: economic backgrounds, and he is, you know, there's there's a
[29:38] Speaker 2: way that he's doing it. Like I said, he's preaching love, equality, acceptance,
[29:43] Speaker 2: inclusivity and woe to capitalism, the same stuff you hear today.
[29:47] Speaker 2: People think that all the stuff we're experiencing today with
[29:50] Speaker 2: Marxism or you know, these people who want to abolish
[29:53] Speaker 2: the hierarchy and replace it with some sort of chaotic
[29:57] Speaker 2: utopia is new. It's not. They were trying it in
[30:00] Speaker 2: the seventies. You know, this was there and it didn't stick.
[30:04] Speaker 2: It was too extreme. And I think it was working
[30:07] Speaker 2: better today because it's less extreme, because we've, you know, ever,
[30:12] Speaker 2: towards being accepting of a lot of this stuff. Like
[30:16] Speaker 2: I told you, a lot of the black people there
[30:18] Speaker 2: weren't poor. A lot of these people were business people.
[30:21] Speaker 2: A lot of Black America before, you know, even in
[30:24] Speaker 2: the forties and fifties, they were self reliant. They had businesses,
[30:27] Speaker 2: they made money, they had families, they were independent. And
[30:32] Speaker 2: Jim Jones preyed on them because of all this racial inequality,
[30:36] Speaker 2: and he prayed on them for the like the civil
[30:40] Speaker 2: rights stuff. He presented himself as a savior for them, right,
[30:45] Speaker 2: and they didn't need a savior. They were already functioning
[30:48] Speaker 2: on their own.
[30:49] Speaker 1: And he eventually started using illusions, stage craft, theatrics, anything
[30:56] Speaker 1: to pass himself off as a healer and having these
[31:01] Speaker 1: quote unquote powers and abilities and up to the extent
[31:06] Speaker 1: of actually drugging people things like that, right, M.
[31:09] Speaker 2: Yeah, well in one case, because if you're going to
[31:13] Speaker 2: be that good, you have to make it look like
[31:15] Speaker 2: you can do things that no mere mortol can do.
[31:19] Speaker 1: Yea.
[31:20] Speaker 2: And one of the things you know they do is
[31:22] Speaker 2: like healings, Right, they'll heal people, place their hand upon people,
[31:27] Speaker 2: or crazy stuff like that. One of the things that
[31:29] Speaker 2: he did he would fake have fake people actors, pretend
[31:35] Speaker 2: they're blind and then they could see. He would pretend
[31:38] Speaker 2: cutting cancer out of people, but it's just rotten chicken
[31:40] Speaker 2: that they had hidden somewhere. One of the things they
[31:42] Speaker 2: did about the drugging here, they drugged a woman and
[31:47] Speaker 2: while she was out of it, they put a cast
[31:49] Speaker 2: on her. And then when she came to, they told
[31:53] Speaker 2: her when she had fallen, she broke her leg, and
[31:57] Speaker 2: that they had put a cast on her while she
[31:59] Speaker 2: was unconscious, and she was you know, that's what they
[32:02] Speaker 2: are telling her. And she's a member. So in front
[32:05] Speaker 2: of all his ministry, all his followers, he does this
[32:08] Speaker 2: big healing ritual and he says, we're going to cut
[32:10] Speaker 2: the cast off and then you're gonna walk, And so
[32:13] Speaker 2: they cut it off and she starts running and everyone's screaming, going,
[32:16] Speaker 2: my god, he just fixed her broken leg, the broken
[32:19] Speaker 2: leg that she never had, because they literally drugged this
[32:23] Speaker 2: woman and then made her believe she had a broken
[32:25] Speaker 2: leg that she never had. It was all lies, theatrical
[32:29] Speaker 2: and manipulation tactics and drugging people. It's a really insane,
[32:34] Speaker 2: just absolute crazy stuff. So he would, yeah, do this
[32:38] Speaker 2: stuff to manipulate the followers to believe. Because you can
[32:44] Speaker 2: say you're the son of God, or you can say
[32:46] Speaker 2: you're Jesus. You can say all this stuff, but eventually
[32:48] Speaker 2: you got to show it. And this is what this
[32:50] Speaker 2: is what he did, basically worse than like like kind
[32:56] Speaker 2: of like some of these stage acts, magic acts are
[32:58] Speaker 2: illusionists that you see. He did a kind of crappier
[33:02] Speaker 2: version of that. Yeah.
[33:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, And you can't be a good cult leader without
[33:07] Speaker 1: being a sexual deviant. And of course this always creeps
[33:12] Speaker 1: in with these people, forcing his cult members into some
[33:15] Speaker 1: sort of sexual activities or confusion or mind control things
[33:20] Speaker 1: of that nature.
[33:20] Speaker 2: Right, it's all the same stuff that you see today.
[33:24] Speaker 2: On his small scale, He's confusing people about their sexual identity.
[33:28] Speaker 2: He's splitting wives and husbands up so that he's the
[33:32] Speaker 2: only one who has sexual access to women. He's also
[33:35] Speaker 2: convincing men now that they're homosexuals and to have sex
[33:38] Speaker 2: with him. He was doing all sorts of depraved stuff.
[33:43] Speaker 2: He is stepping up. Anyone who dares speak out. The
[33:51] Speaker 2: abuse gets in really intense, and because he has everyone
[33:55] Speaker 2: brainwashed the other, anyone who speaks up gets by the other.
[34:01] Speaker 2: Cult members have beaten, you know, violently. He has a
[34:07] Speaker 2: children being abused and paddled. He even had children if
[34:10] Speaker 2: they were misbehaving, to electric shock them or stand on
[34:15] Speaker 2: allege for hours. He's manipulating parents, and parents are allowing him,
[34:21] Speaker 2: abandoning their own instincts to protect their children and allowing
[34:25] Speaker 2: him to abuse their children like this. And people are like,
[34:27] Speaker 2: how can this happen? And it's like, well, they don't
[34:30] Speaker 2: do it overnight. It stands slowly over a long period
[34:33] Speaker 2: of time, and you're so invested and attached to this
[34:36] Speaker 2: group that you can understand. This is how you know
[34:39] Speaker 2: people in abusive marriages. This is why it happens because
[34:42] Speaker 2: they don't know how to get out, and they their
[34:45] Speaker 2: minds so weakened and rearranged, they probably can't and their
[34:49] Speaker 2: work to death, and they're malnourished to that, Like I said,
[34:51] Speaker 2: they probably can't even think to get out, and they're
[34:53] Speaker 2: too terrified to stand up. It's a really sad situation
[34:56] Speaker 2: that you could put your children into this situation with. Really,
[35:01] Speaker 2: but that's the stuff he did. Like I said, he's
[35:03] Speaker 2: confusing the about sexual identity, and he's having sex with
[35:06] Speaker 2: all the women, and he's even you know, convincing the
[35:10] Speaker 2: men that they're gay, but he's not gay. Of course,
[35:12] Speaker 2: he's perfectly fine they're gay and he's having sex with them.
[35:16] Speaker 2: Like it doesn't none of it make sense. But when
[35:17] Speaker 2: you're starving and you're abused, and you're manipulated, and you've
[35:20] Speaker 2: been preached to for hours and hours on end like
[35:23] Speaker 2: he probably, I imagine his sermons are really long, so
[35:27] Speaker 2: it just beats your mind down. You're not thinking normal.
[35:31] Speaker 2: And if you're not and you isolated yourself from everyone
[35:35] Speaker 2: and moved away and you're not around normal people, you
[35:39] Speaker 2: don't have any other voices telling you, hey, this is
[35:41] Speaker 2: a little bit crazy, a little bit nuts.
[35:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, it wouldn't take much after being
[35:50] Speaker 1: exposed to that for a very long time for someone
[35:52] Speaker 1: to mentally crack, I'm sure.
[35:56] Speaker 2: No, and you're literally become a shell of a human
[36:00] Speaker 2: with no ability to think on your own. And you know,
[36:03] Speaker 2: one of the ways that Jim Jones is going to
[36:08] Speaker 2: make sure that he's got the weakest of the week,
[36:11] Speaker 2: He's going to do tests allongonge the way he did
[36:14] Speaker 2: these things called white Knights, And this is a this
[36:18] Speaker 2: is like a precursor. This is like foreshadowing what's he's
[36:21] Speaker 2: already planning and what's going to happen. And a white
[36:24] Speaker 2: Knight basically he would have members, all the members. He
[36:29] Speaker 2: would make this bowls of punches, and he would have
[36:32] Speaker 2: members drink it, drink the punch and then he would say, oh,
[36:36] Speaker 2: it has poison in it, and they'd all start freaking
[36:38] Speaker 2: out right, and he'd be like, oh, just kidding, just kidding,
[36:42] Speaker 2: I'm just messing with you. It doesn't have poisonings. You
[36:44] Speaker 2: know what that does is it's such an extreme thing.
[36:50] Speaker 2: The people are not totally going to conform to him,
[36:53] Speaker 2: will protest then, so he sorts them out, gets rid
[36:57] Speaker 2: of them. So he knows he only has the weakest
[37:00] Speaker 2: of the week. So he's clearly planning all along to
[37:04] Speaker 2: get them out of America. Clearly he's got this on
[37:07] Speaker 2: his roster, and he wants the most subservient. So these tests,
[37:11] Speaker 2: these white Nights, were ways of testing who were totally
[37:16] Speaker 2: devoted and who would say this is batshit crazy? Like
[37:20] Speaker 2: he put it so extreme and you think, well, why
[37:22] Speaker 2: would he do that? People are going to start noticing it.
[37:24] Speaker 2: That's the point is to separate the who's going to
[37:29] Speaker 2: cause an issue for him for ultimate control. And you
[37:34] Speaker 2: can even see this. I'm seeing this in politics today
[37:38] Speaker 2: with different parties where they will test and they'll do
[37:41] Speaker 2: politicians will do the craziest things and throw out memes
[37:45] Speaker 2: or whatever and see who responds and who goes with
[37:48] Speaker 2: it and who says, what the hell are you doing?
[37:51] Speaker 2: Happens all the time on different scales. But this is
[37:53] Speaker 2: going to be a very abusive scale because everybody is
[37:56] Speaker 2: pretty much in a really close proximity. The closer proximity
[37:59] Speaker 2: you are to the cult of them, more likely you
[38:01] Speaker 2: are to get abused.
[38:02] Speaker 1: Well, as I said on my intro, it's unfortunately, what
[38:06] Speaker 1: cult do you want to be a part of? How
[38:07] Speaker 1: abusive is the call that you're looking to join. Will
[38:11] Speaker 1: it harm you or is it going to be somewhat okay,
[38:14] Speaker 1: just a little minute mental manipulation, because like I said earlier,
[38:19] Speaker 1: almost everything we can be involved with, with our institutions
[38:24] Speaker 1: especially is cult.
[38:26] Speaker 2: Like yeah, and it really is the other thing that they,
[38:34] Speaker 2: like I said, they create an enemy within the uses
[38:37] Speaker 2: us versus them. Look, guys, I'm saving you from the
[38:41] Speaker 2: evil capitalists of the world. You're only safe if you're
[38:46] Speaker 2: with me, and we got to keep running from them
[38:48] Speaker 2: because they're everywhere. Like I said, he you know, I
[38:56] Speaker 2: wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the you know,
[38:59] Speaker 2: a lot of them were the members were using drugs.
[39:01] Speaker 2: Jim Jones was definitely using drugs. He starts to become
[39:04] Speaker 2: more erratic as it goes as he gets into all
[39:08] Speaker 2: this drugs, and you got to where's he getting the
[39:10] Speaker 2: drugs from? Where do you get all the sign that
[39:12] Speaker 2: where do you get all this stuff from? He's got
[39:14] Speaker 2: all this stuff and all the while he's scoping out
[39:19] Speaker 2: Guyana and places like that with the idea to leave
[39:23] Speaker 2: the United States and have a colony for his members.
[39:27] Speaker 2: How do you get a colony in Guyana? Like, where
[39:30] Speaker 2: do you get those resources? I know he was taking
[39:32] Speaker 2: money from excuse me, from his members, but this is
[39:36] Speaker 2: this is pretty hefty. Yeah, this is like, you know,
[39:44] Speaker 2: how does he know to do all this? And maybe
[39:46] Speaker 2: he's just a savvy business kind of guy. He knows connections.
[39:50] Speaker 2: I don't know, but he I think it's probably when
[39:55] Speaker 2: he starts doing these white night things and then he's
[39:59] Speaker 2: got all the drugs members. He wants to get members
[40:02] Speaker 2: to leave so they doesn't control them. But that also
[40:04] Speaker 2: presents a problem because the members that leave start talking
[40:09] Speaker 2: a threat. Of course, he threatens them all. He threatens
[40:12] Speaker 2: their lives. He's threatened people and their children. If you
[40:14] Speaker 2: go into it more specifically, you'll see there's people who
[40:17] Speaker 2: talk about how he's threatened. But the mainstream media always
[40:22] Speaker 2: presented Jim Jones in a more positive light, or they
[40:25] Speaker 2: didn't really talk about it at all. They didn't cover
[40:28] Speaker 2: what was really going on. It was the independent journalists,
[40:31] Speaker 2: like the street journalists, who you know, were running their
[40:33] Speaker 2: own stuff and printing their own you know, magazines. There
[40:37] Speaker 2: was no Internet then, of course, and you couldn't just
[40:40] Speaker 2: have your own radio or TV. That was way really expensive.
[40:44] Speaker 2: No one just had that day. All they could do
[40:46] Speaker 2: was write articles for small, little indeprependent news productions, and
[40:53] Speaker 2: they did that, and some of these people were talking
[40:57] Speaker 2: and telling them what was going on. And there was
[41:00] Speaker 2: some journal or a news paper called New West and
[41:05] Speaker 2: they started to expose the People's Temple and they were
[41:09] Speaker 2: interviewing ex members and telling what was going on. And
[41:14] Speaker 2: GM Jones was informed that this article was going to
[41:16] Speaker 2: come out, and I think he phoned them. I think
[41:20] Speaker 2: he tried to stop it. He tried to kind of imply,
[41:26] Speaker 2: like I think he tried to imply use a conspiracy
[41:29] Speaker 2: theorists to imply there was conspiracies against them. Him going
[41:33] Speaker 2: on like now present himself as the victim, which is
[41:36] Speaker 2: you watch any of these kind of narcissist stay like
[41:39] Speaker 2: Andrew Tayor' stuff. They'll do all these things and they'll
[41:41] Speaker 2: lie about it, and then suddenly they're the victim when
[41:44] Speaker 2: people start talking about it. They'll always kind of take
[41:46] Speaker 2: up this power thing where they're trying to get all
[41:48] Speaker 2: this power, and then when things go sour, they're the victim.
[41:52] Speaker 2: Everyone's against them, poor me, you know, where as the
[41:58] Speaker 2: list of victims they victimize is you know, long, and
[42:03] Speaker 2: so when I mean the guy's paranoid, he's on drugs.
[42:09] Speaker 2: He obviously already has this land in Guyana. What I
[42:13] Speaker 2: found so suspicious about his behavior was that within six
[42:20] Speaker 2: hours he literally had his members all packed up to
[42:24] Speaker 2: go and left United States within twenty four hours, like
[42:28] Speaker 2: over nine hundred members and shuttled off to Guyana. That's
[42:34] Speaker 2: some impressive coordination to do in a very short period
[42:39] Speaker 2: of time. And I'm thinking, what connections do you have
[42:42] Speaker 2: to have to make that happen?
[42:44] Speaker 1: Well, I mean, after years of amassing wealth from all
[42:49] Speaker 1: these poor people that he manipulated, gaining all these connections,
[42:55] Speaker 1: and like you said, the big question is how do
[42:57] Speaker 1: you get those connections to begin with? If that just
[42:59] Speaker 1: doesn't come to anybody, So very big question surrounding that.
[43:05] Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean there's even at the CIA dot gov.
[43:08] Speaker 2: There's a pdf. They'll probably deny it, but there's a
[43:10] Speaker 2: pdf here It says Reverend Jones was a CIA agent.
[43:14] Speaker 2: This was from nineteen eighty one in the Los Angeles Times.
[43:17] Speaker 2: San Francisco's survivors of the People Temple's tragedy and relatives
[43:21] Speaker 2: of dead followers of the Reverend Jim Jones sued the
[43:24] Speaker 2: federal government Wednesday claiming it conspired in the deaths of
[43:27] Speaker 2: more than nine hundred cult members. The suit for personal
[43:31] Speaker 2: injury and violation of civil rights charges that former Secretary
[43:34] Speaker 2: of State Cyrus Vance and former CIA director Stanfield Turnner
[43:39] Speaker 2: participated in a conspiracy with Jones to control Temple members
[43:43] Speaker 2: who held socialist beliefs. The suit alleges that Jones was
[43:46] Speaker 2: an employee, servant, and agent or operative of the CIA
[43:50] Speaker 2: from nineteen sixty three until his death, along with nine
[43:53] Speaker 2: hundred and twelve other Temple members in the mass suicide murder.
[43:57] Speaker 2: It's murder in Guyana, and of course Representative Leo Ryan
[44:01] Speaker 2: was murdered amongst other news crew they were visiting there.
[44:06] Speaker 2: The suit charges that the CIA knew that they had
[44:09] Speaker 2: commissioned the James Warren Jones to embark on a plan
[44:12] Speaker 2: to control and ultimately massacre members of the People's Temple
[44:16] Speaker 2: Monica Begbee, Thomas Rogue, and Tina M. Turner wounded in
[44:20] Speaker 2: November eighteenth, nineteen seventy eight to attack. Are joined by
[44:25] Speaker 2: relatives of several cult members. So there's a lawsuit about
[44:28] Speaker 2: this claiming, you know, it's not just you know, it's
[44:34] Speaker 2: not just me making up some conspiracy. At the time,
[44:39] Speaker 2: three years after this massacre, they were being sued. The
[44:42] Speaker 2: government was being sued because it was strongly believed that
[44:48] Speaker 2: he was tied in with the CIA, right from nineteen
[44:52] Speaker 2: sixty three, that's near the time where he was wanting
[44:55] Speaker 2: to move to San Francisco.
[44:58] Speaker 1: It wouldn't surprise me at all all if he was
[45:02] Speaker 1: being used for some kind of black operation or experiment
[45:08] Speaker 1: to see just how many people they could get at
[45:11] Speaker 1: the same time to commit a mass suicide. It really
[45:14] Speaker 1: wouldn't surprise me at all because we've heard about sick
[45:18] Speaker 1: experimentation from these Three Letter agencies and CIA since the
[45:23] Speaker 1: beginning of these institutions. So it really wouldn't surprise me
[45:27] Speaker 1: at all if something that malevolent was behind all this.
[45:32] Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was, you know, and it was the
[45:34] Speaker 2: relatives who were issuing. They would issue packets to press
[45:37] Speaker 2: in Congress, and those relatives are what got Leo Ryan involved,
[45:43] Speaker 2: who wanted to go out and investigate this down in Guyana,
[45:47] Speaker 2: and that's where you know, you get the whole Jonestown massacre.
[45:51] Speaker 2: And Jim Jones had like people were visiting him, news
[45:55] Speaker 2: agencies were visiting him, and he would set it all
[45:58] Speaker 2: up to make everything look good. Look a bananas looking
[46:00] Speaker 2: at this, and it was. It was a shit show,
[46:03] Speaker 2: a disaster, and he of course had armed guards there.
[46:06] Speaker 2: No one could leave. They were ultimately utterly controlled.
[46:11] Speaker 1: Right, Let's let's go over the final events of that
[46:17] Speaker 1: tragic day and everything that kind of unfolded that led
[46:21] Speaker 1: to it.
[46:22] Speaker 2: Yeah. So, well, what happened was that I said, look,
[46:26] Speaker 2: gle O'Ryan had been informed because the relatives were distributing
[46:29] Speaker 2: information about what was going on. So he, along with
[46:33] Speaker 2: Congresswoman Jackie Spear NBC camera crew reporters, headed out to Guyana.
[46:39] Speaker 2: They were just collecting data to see if the relatives
[46:42] Speaker 2: were telling the truth. So they landed in Georgetown on
[46:45] Speaker 2: November fifth. Then they flew out to the Port Kaituma airstrip,
[46:49] Speaker 2: and Jones had been made aware that they were coming
[46:53] Speaker 2: long before, so he was prepared for them. He was,
[46:55] Speaker 2: he was ready, and so he had everyone put on
[46:58] Speaker 2: a good show, organize how great everything was, to try
[47:02] Speaker 2: and trick. But when the congressman arrived and everyone was
[47:06] Speaker 2: looking cheerful, but they could tell something wasn't right. The
[47:09] Speaker 2: could tell it was fake. I mean, you know, if
[47:12] Speaker 2: you've got some instinct that something's going going wrong, and
[47:15] Speaker 2: eventually people started to slip you know, the congresswoman and
[47:20] Speaker 2: Leo Ryan, they start to slip them letters like help
[47:22] Speaker 2: help us, Like they knew that this was They figured
[47:25] Speaker 2: this is our only way to get out of here.
[47:28] Speaker 2: And so I think Leo Ryan was attacked by somebody
[47:33] Speaker 2: that night they were doing some kind of performance for them,
[47:36] Speaker 2: and he was actually stabbed a guy named Don Sly,
[47:41] Speaker 2: And so people started to say, we want to leave,
[47:44] Speaker 2: we want to leave, we want to go. And Jim
[47:46] Speaker 2: Jones didn't protest in front of Ryan, and they left
[47:50] Speaker 2: with some people, and Jim Jones had this thing called
[47:55] Speaker 2: the Red Brigade, he called them, and his dudes with
[47:58] Speaker 2: machine guns basically of thugs, and so he had them
[48:02] Speaker 2: go down to Port Tituna and that's where all hell
[48:05] Speaker 2: breaks loose, and they gunned down le O'Ryan. They killed
[48:09] Speaker 2: the NBC News crew crew. Congresswoman Jackie Spear is the
[48:14] Speaker 2: only one I think who survived. She laid down and
[48:17] Speaker 2: played dead.
[48:19] Speaker 1: Wow.
[48:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, it was pretty crazy. It was absolutely crazy. She
[48:24] Speaker 2: had five bullets shot into her. And you know, there's
[48:35] Speaker 2: there's there's you can find like clips. Jim Jones recorded
[48:40] Speaker 2: everything on audio in the last forty five minutes, and
[48:44] Speaker 2: it's pretty horrible. Yeah, because as soon as that happened,
[48:48] Speaker 2: he was like, Okay, it's time to go. And not
[48:52] Speaker 2: everybody drank kool aid. Most a lot of people were injected,
[48:57] Speaker 2: forcefully shot. What he did was he made a lot
[49:00] Speaker 2: of the adults and Jack make their children drink the cyanide,
[49:07] Speaker 2: and then once their children died, they wanted to die. Wow,
[49:10] Speaker 2: so they had to listen to their babies die. It's
[49:14] Speaker 2: pretty two hundred and sixty of the nine hundred were
[49:18] Speaker 2: children and so yeah, and then I think Jones shot
[49:23] Speaker 2: himself and the other members shot. He shot everybody, and
[49:27] Speaker 2: everybody was just gone. And by the time anyone got there,
[49:33] Speaker 2: some people that had still escaped, like literally through the
[49:36] Speaker 2: jungle escaped and managed to leave and report what happened.
[49:40] Speaker 2: And so by the time anyone got there, it was
[49:43] Speaker 2: just a massive pile of bodies out in the middle
[49:46] Speaker 2: of the jungle.
[49:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, And anyone can find those pictures online if they
[49:52] Speaker 1: had the stomach for it. But it's pretty horrible.
[49:54] Speaker 2: Yeah, And I've listened to the recordings, and you know,
[49:58] Speaker 2: it's not easy thing to listen to so be warned.
[50:00] Speaker 2: It's this craze, drugged up MK ultra nutjob preaching on
[50:08] Speaker 2: while people are being screaming and crying and being murdered.
[50:11] Speaker 2: It it's crazy. It's like worse than a horror movie.
[50:14] Speaker 1: Right now, you have a few talking points at the
[50:19] Speaker 1: end of your little presentation, possibilities, speculations of what was
[50:24] Speaker 1: really going on. We covered some of those as you went,
[50:27] Speaker 1: you know, the possible CIA ties. Was he some sort
[50:31] Speaker 1: of CIA asset? Was this some sort of grand experiment?
[50:34] Speaker 1: Who knows? But the question I have is do you
[50:38] Speaker 1: think he originally intended to kill himself or did he
[50:43] Speaker 1: want to really escape the whole thing?
[50:47] Speaker 2: Well, I think it's sort of like any kind of
[50:49] Speaker 2: crazy lunaric. He's obviously always for himself. He probably, you know,
[50:55] Speaker 2: maybe he had plans, because there's people said he had
[50:59] Speaker 2: planned to fleet Russia or Cuba. But when you're dealing
[51:03] Speaker 2: with this sort of narcissistic fake persona and it starts
[51:08] Speaker 2: to break down and you see the real monster, you
[51:12] Speaker 2: see what's really beneath, and they can't contain that psychotic persona,
[51:17] Speaker 2: oftentimes they will become sus They'll just yeah, they'd rather
[51:22] Speaker 2: be dead than being custody. They'd rather be dead than
[51:25] Speaker 2: have anyone else have control over them.
[51:27] Speaker 1: Well, it's also speculated that a lot of these MK
[51:29] Speaker 1: ultra victims have this self destruct mechanism or trigger whenever
[51:35] Speaker 1: things get out of hand, that they're just programmed to
[51:39] Speaker 1: off themselves.
[51:40] Speaker 2: Right, so then they're gone and no one else can
[51:43] Speaker 2: interrogate them and find out, you know, what they were
[51:46] Speaker 2: really involved in. Very true, very true, and it's kind
[51:51] Speaker 2: of there's also the idea that it was a sye up.
[51:55] Speaker 2: Jim Jones was a syge up and it was part
[51:57] Speaker 2: of him ruining ruining you know, prosperity of black Americans,
[52:02] Speaker 2: and ruining the civil rights movement. I mean, we've seen
[52:05] Speaker 2: this with like, oh, what's his name? He was to
[52:09] Speaker 2: ruin the hippie movement manson, Yeah, ruined the anti war movement.
[52:15] Speaker 1: You find out that they're multi layered. There's many purposes
[52:18] Speaker 1: to it. It could have been all of these things
[52:21] Speaker 1: that we're mentioning just to serve different purposes for one
[52:25] Speaker 1: big operation exactly.
[52:29] Speaker 2: And it's I don't know when he met with them,
[52:33] Speaker 2: but it's it's obvious from nineteen sixty three on he's
[52:38] Speaker 2: he's in with some kind of something beyond his own church. Yeah,
[52:41] Speaker 2: and his own means.
[52:43] Speaker 1: This is so interesting.
[52:46] Speaker 2: And today people worship him. Unfortunately, yeah, unfortunately, well people
[52:53] Speaker 2: worshiping you know, these these women that worship I found
[52:56] Speaker 2: a group this. I don't even think the group exists anymore.
[52:58] Speaker 2: I found it years ago and I was doing screen
[53:00] Speaker 2: shots from them, but they do. They were doing things
[53:02] Speaker 2: like Jim Jones Fashion Day. Oh look, they would post
[53:05] Speaker 2: pictures look at Jim Jones on this day in this
[53:08] Speaker 2: suit and this when they would dress up like him,
[53:10] Speaker 2: or they would make weird concoctions and crafts about him.
[53:14] Speaker 2: Or they would make like a brew like one person
[53:19] Speaker 2: did a Holy Trinity art project, and one bottle like
[53:23] Speaker 2: they're like these jeweled bottles, and one has his gym's
[53:27] Speaker 2: is representative Jim's urine and decomposition fluid, and one jars
[53:32] Speaker 2: got fat and chat like it's very oculty. It's like
[53:36] Speaker 2: they're trying to make occult rituals and say it's Jim's whatever.
[53:40] Speaker 2: And these people they write poetry about him, and it's
[53:43] Speaker 2: like these sick, borderline crazy women who are idolized. I mean,
[53:47] Speaker 2: it's like those chicks who who try to marry serial
[53:51] Speaker 2: killers while they're in prison. You know, it's really weird.
[53:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's super weird. This is so crazy, Melissa, thank
[53:58] Speaker 1: you so much. This was great information and I learned
[54:00] Speaker 1: so much. Looking forward to the next time. We always
[54:04] Speaker 1: have fascinating discussions. Before we close out today, remind everyone
[54:09] Speaker 1: where they can find all your content.
[54:12] Speaker 2: Well, I've got shows on Jim Jones. So if you
[54:15] Speaker 2: go to whether gen xonex dot com and any of
[54:19] Speaker 2: those links there and sift through the library stuff, there
[54:22] Speaker 2: is stuff where we do some stuff on Jim Jones,
[54:24] Speaker 2: so we can find it there. But there's also lots
[54:26] Speaker 2: of political stuff, spiritual stuff. Chris is going to be
[54:28] Speaker 2: coming on my show. It's going to be pretty cool
[54:30] Speaker 2: at the end of the month, so he'll be there.
[54:32] Speaker 2: So Joe, you can join us. I think it's the
[54:34] Speaker 2: thirtieth of January. We're live streaming at eight pm easternth
[54:37] Speaker 2: so you can join us for that. And there's lots
[54:40] Speaker 2: of stuff on politics, on conspiracy theories, talking about daily stuff.
[54:47] Speaker 2: I also want to do some more things about getting
[54:49] Speaker 2: guests on to actually show what extremists on the left
[54:53] Speaker 2: are you know doing, and you know where this sort
[54:56] Speaker 2: of dismantling of society comes from and how they think
[55:00] Speaker 2: just because you know, they're still around. They don't go anywhere,
[55:03] Speaker 2: they stay around. They're all over the place, so everybody
[55:05] Speaker 2: thinks they're gone, but they're not. Yeah, you know, so
[55:08] Speaker 2: I just kind of who knows where it will go.
[55:10] Speaker 2: But if you go to gen xon x dot com,
[55:13] Speaker 2: you will find all the links to subscribe and support
[55:16] Speaker 2: the show, and I would really appreciate it.
[55:18] Speaker 1: Awesome, Melissa, thank you so much. Looking forward to coming
[55:21] Speaker 1: on your show in a bit and we'll definitely do
[55:24] Speaker 1: this again. Until next time, everyone, have a wonderful evening.
[55:28] Speaker 1: We'll talk again tomorrow. See you then. We live in
[55:33] Speaker 1: an incredible age of information. Today, I want to welcome
[55:36] Speaker 1: Jordan Sather. He is a citizen journalist, film producer, and entrepreneur. Jordan, Welcome,
[55:43] Speaker 1: How you doing.
[55:45] Speaker 3: I'm doing fantastic. How you doing?
[55:47] Speaker 1: I'm doing excellent. Today we're going to discuss the unfortunate
[55:51] Speaker 1: state of the alternative media space, specifically the UFO conspiracy communities.
[55:57] Speaker 1: I've been in this space for almost nine years now.
[56:01] Speaker 1: I've seen many researchers, whistleblowers, and contact ees come and go,
[56:06] Speaker 1: and there are plenty of amazing people with important and
[56:10] Speaker 1: genuine insights and experiences to share, but it seems that grifters,
[56:16] Speaker 1: con men, and even three letter and military agents and
[56:20] Speaker 1: assets have infiltrated this space to a disturbing degree. You've
[56:25] Speaker 1: had first hand experience with this by working directly with
[56:29] Speaker 1: people like that. David Wilcock and Corey Good have become
[56:33] Speaker 1: two of the most notorious grifters in the UFO community.
[56:37] Speaker 1: I'm absolutely amazed that they still have any kind of
[56:40] Speaker 1: following after everything that's come out. And you were recently
[56:45] Speaker 1: featured in Darcy Weir's film about the Good Wilcox Soaka,
[56:50] Speaker 1: and I'm really looking forward to hearing more about that,
[56:53] Speaker 1: getting your insights into what really happened with that whole thing,
[56:58] Speaker 1: as well as getting your insights into the phenomena itself
[57:03] Speaker 1: and what has been unfolding lately with mash drone sightings
[57:08] Speaker 1: across the United States and even in UK and other places.
[57:12] Speaker 1: From what I've heard, so lots to discuss today, but
[57:16] Speaker 1: this is your first time on and we've only got
[57:18] Speaker 1: an hour, but tell us a little bit about yourself
[57:22] Speaker 1: and what got you involved with this work.
[57:27] Speaker 3: Yeah, the whole alternative media social media sphere right now
[57:31] Speaker 3: is basically a wild West, and with so many people
[57:34] Speaker 3: moving away from the mainstream media propaganda, which is a
[57:37] Speaker 3: good thing, they're going on to social media, into alternative
[57:40] Speaker 3: media platforms for their news, and it's still a wild
[57:45] Speaker 3: West out there. It's a whole new realm of propaganda
[57:48] Speaker 3: that a lot of people have a tough time seeing through.
[57:51] Speaker 3: But anyway, for my own personal story, i'll make this
[57:57] Speaker 3: real quick. Sorry. Back in about twenty eleven twenty twelve
[58:03] Speaker 3: is when I started waking up to the matrix, I
[58:06] Speaker 3: guess you could say. And it started with seeing the
[58:09] Speaker 3: pharmaceutical industry, but I soon unraveled that thread, and of course,
[58:14] Speaker 3: in some way, shape or form, everything's connected. And I
[58:17] Speaker 3: started digging into well, the better reserve and our banking
[58:21] Speaker 3: system because I saw the Rockefeller medical system. Who were
[58:25] Speaker 3: these Rockefellers. Oh, they're also involved in setting up the
[58:29] Speaker 3: banking systems. Oh, and there were also industrialist oil barren
[58:33] Speaker 3: banking families. So I started diving into the suppressed technology
[58:38] Speaker 3: topic and everything about that. So back in about twenty eleven,
[58:42] Speaker 3: before we had a lot of these alt media social
[58:45] Speaker 3: media platforms, most of the conspiracy research was done on
[58:49] Speaker 3: like forums and obscure blogs and stuff like that, right,
[58:53] Speaker 3: and I came across somehow. I came across David Wilcox's work,
[58:57] Speaker 3: his website, and at the time he just publish his
[59:00] Speaker 3: first book called The Source Field Investigations, And for some
[59:04] Speaker 3: reason or another, I was just so new to all
[59:07] Speaker 3: this research that I bought what David Wilcock was selling,
[59:11] Speaker 3: and I was hooked on his blog and thinking he
[59:14] Speaker 3: had all these insiders and oh my gosh, these Intel
[59:18] Speaker 3: briefings and all this sort of stuff. So I thought, oh,
[59:21] Speaker 3: this is the best information I can get right now. Well,
[59:24] Speaker 3: I kept following him, and then it was about twenty fourteen,
[59:27] Speaker 3: twenty fifteen that David brought Corey Good onto the scene
[59:31] Speaker 3: one of his secret Space program insiders, and he brought
[59:33] Speaker 3: Corey Good out. So I was believing that circus. And
[59:37] Speaker 3: then come early twenty seventeen, it was January twenty seventeen,
[59:42] Speaker 3: I had the inspiration to start a YouTube channel that
[59:46] Speaker 3: I called Destroying the Illusion, and I was talking about
[59:50] Speaker 3: three main things. One was my interest in health exposing
[59:54] Speaker 3: big pharma. One was my interest in politics looking at
[59:59] Speaker 3: it from a more new perspective. And then also, of
[1:00:01] Speaker 3: course the UFO secret space program, suppress technologies topics. So
[1:00:05] Speaker 3: those are the three main things I was talking about,
[1:00:07] Speaker 3: and my channel grew relatively quick. I guess within three
[1:00:13] Speaker 3: to four months I had twenty thousand subscribers or so.
[1:00:17] Speaker 3: But I guess I caught the attention of Corey Good
[1:00:20] Speaker 3: and Corey Good's team because his business partner at the
[1:00:23] Speaker 3: time reached out to me and invited me to come
[1:00:26] Speaker 3: down to the Contact in the Desert conference in twenty seventeen.
[1:00:30] Speaker 3: That was the last one they held at Joshua Tree
[1:00:32] Speaker 3: when it was still held there. So I agreed to go,
[1:00:36] Speaker 3: went to Contact in twenty seventeen, met Corey and his team,
[1:00:40] Speaker 3: and then I kind of got swept up into that
[1:00:43] Speaker 3: group and started working with them on a bunch of
[1:00:45] Speaker 3: different projects, going to conferences and events with them. Ended
[1:00:50] Speaker 3: up co producing their above Majestic documentary, which for the record,
[1:00:56] Speaker 3: I still think is a great piece of work. But
[1:00:58] Speaker 3: if I could redo that, I would absolutely redo that
[1:01:01] Speaker 3: and cut out you know, Corey Good and most, if
[1:01:04] Speaker 3: not all, of David Wilcox's pieces in there. But so
[1:01:08] Speaker 3: co produced a bubb majestic and ended up working with
[1:01:11] Speaker 3: Corey and David and all of them that group for
[1:01:14] Speaker 3: about two years through twenty eighteen and twenty nineteen. But
[1:01:18] Speaker 3: towards the end of twenty nineteen, I just saw a
[1:01:21] Speaker 3: lot of stuff that maybe beforehand I was in denial about,
[1:01:26] Speaker 3: or new fresh things that really just started making me
[1:01:30] Speaker 3: question that whole group, especially how Corey and David operated.
[1:01:35] Speaker 3: I Number one, I witnessed really weird, shady business dealings.
[1:01:41] Speaker 3: I think they were shady, and just how they conducted
[1:01:44] Speaker 3: their business behind the scenes I did not think was
[1:01:48] Speaker 3: fair at all. I saw let the little power plays
[1:01:51] Speaker 3: go on, and you know, we can get into that
[1:01:53] Speaker 3: more if you want to, but I was not a
[1:01:55] Speaker 3: fan of how they conducted their business behind the scenes.
[1:01:58] Speaker 3: I thought how they operated it was quite unfair. I
[1:02:01] Speaker 3: also saw how they portrayed narratives to the public, and
[1:02:07] Speaker 3: these were narratives that, you know, I saw behind the
[1:02:10] Speaker 3: scenes that didn't match up with what they were telling
[1:02:12] Speaker 3: their followers publicly. So, for instance, on the whole insider thing,
[1:02:16] Speaker 3: at one point in twenty eighteen, I took a trip
[1:02:19] Speaker 3: to go meet two of David Wilcox's supposed alliance insiders,
[1:02:27] Speaker 3: and that whole that whole situation just left a real
[1:02:32] Speaker 3: bad taste in my mouth. These people did not They
[1:02:36] Speaker 3: were not inside of anything except maybe David Wilcox's head.
[1:02:40] Speaker 3: But then I saw David continuously promote these people as
[1:02:43] Speaker 3: being Alliance insiders in his articles and in his public work.
[1:02:47] Speaker 3: So wasn't a fan of the whole insiders I'm getting
[1:02:51] Speaker 3: intel briefings thing. I just thought that was really sketchy.
[1:02:55] Speaker 3: A lot of the business dealings I saw I also
[1:02:58] Speaker 3: was not a fan of. And also, how you know,
[1:03:01] Speaker 3: towards the end of twenty nineteen early twenty twenty, especially
[1:03:05] Speaker 3: early twenty twenty, the whole COVID whatever you want to
[1:03:08] Speaker 3: call it, hit, so a lot of Internet influencers they
[1:03:12] Speaker 3: couldn't go out, so they decided to start doing a
[1:03:14] Speaker 3: bunch of live streams. And at this point David started
[1:03:16] Speaker 3: doing a bunch of live streams on his channel. And
[1:03:19] Speaker 3: I remember one specific video I think is still up
[1:03:22] Speaker 3: on his YouTube channel. He titled it WikiLeaks Dumps All Files,
[1:03:29] Speaker 3: Huge breaking News or something like that. Number one, This
[1:03:35] Speaker 3: was not WikiLeaks dumping all files. What David came across
[1:03:39] Speaker 3: was a URL that was an index page of all
[1:03:42] Speaker 3: of WikiLeaks drops dumps they've ever put out it was
[1:03:46] Speaker 3: nothing new, and this index file has been online for years.
[1:03:51] Speaker 3: It only takes two three minutes of research to figure
[1:03:55] Speaker 3: out it was nothing new. So David did this whole
[1:03:58] Speaker 3: two hour live stream based upon easily debunkable information, getting
[1:04:04] Speaker 3: the headline wrong, and then proceeds to in his YouTube
[1:04:07] Speaker 3: video sell his three hundred and thirty three dollars video
[1:04:12] Speaker 3: course that he just came out with so exorbitantly priced
[1:04:18] Speaker 3: products that in my opinion, were not worth the money,
[1:04:21] Speaker 3: using false information in my opinion, delusions of grandeur that
[1:04:29] Speaker 3: David suffers from, but also Corey. I remember Corey came
[1:04:33] Speaker 3: out with his new website in twenty nineteen and he
[1:04:35] Speaker 3: was calling himself the Enoch of our modern times on
[1:04:39] Speaker 3: his website and then using this legal defense fund to
[1:04:44] Speaker 3: try to raise a bunch of money. And I saw
[1:04:45] Speaker 3: his lawsuits in his lawsuits, in my opinion, were total garbage.
[1:04:50] Speaker 3: But he's putting out these gofundmes so he can raise
[1:04:54] Speaker 3: all this money for his legal defense fund. But it
[1:04:56] Speaker 3: just none of it. Yeah, it I started to basically
[1:05:01] Speaker 3: clear my eyes, and I'm like, anymore, so.
[1:05:04] Speaker 1: Did he have lawsuits against Because this became a major thing.
[1:05:08] Speaker 1: Basically suing everybody at some point, But at first, what
[1:05:12] Speaker 1: were the earliest legal suits that he had.
[1:05:16] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's uh, I'm gonna have to go back through
[1:05:18] Speaker 3: my memory banks because there's been a lot of people
[1:05:20] Speaker 3: that's been sued at this point. But oddly enough, who
[1:05:24] Speaker 3: has sued Corey? I don't know if anybody has. But
[1:05:27] Speaker 3: let's see, there was Corey's lawsuit against Cliff High, the
[1:05:29] Speaker 3: Cliff High won, and then Corey I think he still
[1:05:33] Speaker 3: has a lawsuit going against Gaya. And then Corey sued
[1:05:39] Speaker 3: a bunch of his former business partners, three of them Roger, Leon,
[1:05:42] Speaker 3: and Adrian. Roger was the one that initially contacted me
[1:05:46] Speaker 3: and got me into their group back in twenty seventeen.
[1:05:48] Speaker 3: But there became business power plays, business disagreements or whatever,
[1:05:54] Speaker 3: and Corey claimed that Leon, Adrian, and Roger were embezzling
[1:06:00] Speaker 3: money from the documentary accounts and elsewhere. But what ended
[1:06:10] Speaker 3: up happening is that Corey was the one that had
[1:06:14] Speaker 3: the distribution company put all the movie royalties into his
[1:06:18] Speaker 3: own account he created, and then he started claiming that
[1:06:23] Speaker 3: Leon and Roger and Adrian were the ones embezzling the funds.
[1:06:27] Speaker 3: But wait, why did you set up your own personal
[1:06:29] Speaker 3: account to get all the money dumped into Corey, And
[1:06:32] Speaker 3: why have none of those royalties been paid out since
[1:06:36] Speaker 3: you started that account, Corey? But Corey, you're over here
[1:06:39] Speaker 3: claiming they're the ones in bezzling funds. So I saw
[1:06:43] Speaker 3: those lawsuits come out, and the narratives that were in
[1:06:49] Speaker 3: those lawsuits, and then all of the disagreements about accounts
[1:06:54] Speaker 3: and the way that he worked with the distribution company,
[1:06:57] Speaker 3: which was ten ninety one Films, set up this account
[1:07:00] Speaker 3: to get all the money dumped into his own personal
[1:07:02] Speaker 3: account away from everybody else. I'm like, this is this
[1:07:05] Speaker 3: is just a mess. I can't deal with these egos anymore.
[1:07:09] Speaker 1: Ultimately, how did you separate yourself? And maybe just give
[1:07:14] Speaker 1: us a brief recap of the series of events to follow.
[1:07:18] Speaker 1: I don't want to spend the whole show on good
[1:07:20] Speaker 1: and Willcock, but I think it is important that the
[1:07:22] Speaker 1: audience understands in case they run across any of these
[1:07:26] Speaker 1: videos or feel compelled by any of the previous information
[1:07:30] Speaker 1: they put out, they should know who these people really are.
[1:07:33] Speaker 1: So just tell us a little bit about how everything
[1:07:35] Speaker 1: unfolded after.
[1:07:38] Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's a quick answer to this one. In
[1:07:41] Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, Corey and David held a conference in Ventura,
[1:07:45] Speaker 3: California called Dimensions of Disclosure. It might have been called
[1:07:50] Speaker 3: something to that effect. And I had went and spoken
[1:07:54] Speaker 3: at that and then after that, you know, it's not
[1:07:58] Speaker 3: like I was texting or Corey every single day or
[1:08:01] Speaker 3: anything throughout the whole time period. I was sort of
[1:08:04] Speaker 3: working with him and his group, but just didn't hear
[1:08:09] Speaker 3: from him for a while. I didn't reach out to
[1:08:11] Speaker 3: him for a while. Then I started hearing from Roger
[1:08:16] Speaker 3: Lee on an Adrian sort of what was going on
[1:08:19] Speaker 3: with the lawsuits, and I don't know. At the beginning
[1:08:23] Speaker 3: of twenty twenty, I think I just got sick of
[1:08:25] Speaker 3: their stuff, what I was seeing them put out. And
[1:08:28] Speaker 3: then on my social media accounts, I put out this
[1:08:30] Speaker 3: sort of pr statement where I said, I'm grateful for
[1:08:35] Speaker 3: the time that I worked with him, but I just
[1:08:36] Speaker 3: can't work with him anymore. So that's how I kind
[1:08:39] Speaker 3: of severed those ties, is just putting out that statement.
[1:08:42] Speaker 3: And yeah, really after that conference in Ventura, which was
[1:08:46] Speaker 3: August twenty nineteen, I just didn't didn't talk to them
[1:08:50] Speaker 3: much anymore and got sick of their sick of what
[1:08:54] Speaker 3: I was seeing and put out that little social media
[1:08:57] Speaker 3: statement that kind of burned my bridges with those guys.
[1:09:00] Speaker 3: So yeah, Ever since then, I haven't spoken much about it,
[1:09:06] Speaker 3: like here and there in some videos that I do
[1:09:09] Speaker 3: and whatnot, I've spoken about my experiences with them. But
[1:09:12] Speaker 3: I got contacted by Darcy in twenty twenty two, a
[1:09:18] Speaker 3: couple of years ago, and Darcy told me that he
[1:09:20] Speaker 3: was working on this expose film of these guys. And
[1:09:24] Speaker 3: I got to talking to Darcy and I'm like, eh,
[1:09:26] Speaker 3: Darcy's pretty legit, you know, he's it's it's refreshing working
[1:09:30] Speaker 3: with somebody who has integrity and is honest and pays
[1:09:33] Speaker 3: what he's said he's gonna pay and does it on
[1:09:35] Speaker 3: time and all that. So Darcy was a cool guy,
[1:09:39] Speaker 3: and he shared with me some of the research he
[1:09:41] Speaker 3: got for these films. I'm like, wow, you know, you
[1:09:45] Speaker 3: know more about Corey David than I do. And I
[1:09:47] Speaker 3: worked with him for a couple of years. So Darcy
[1:09:50] Speaker 3: did a great research for these films and he asked
[1:09:52] Speaker 3: me to sit down and appear in them and said totally,
[1:09:55] Speaker 3: I'll share my story, no problem. So I did, and
[1:10:00] Speaker 3: and then a couple of months back, The Dark Alliance
[1:10:04] Speaker 3: film finally released, and the first two episodes are on
[1:10:08] Speaker 3: Amazon for a whopping ninety nine cents, so hell of
[1:10:12] Speaker 3: a lot better price than a three hundred and thirty
[1:10:15] Speaker 3: three dollars video course. Yeah and yeah. Episode number one
[1:10:21] Speaker 3: sort of dives into Jay Widner's story working with these
[1:10:25] Speaker 3: guys and Guya, which Guya is a whole different conversation
[1:10:29] Speaker 3: about them, but episode one dives into sort of how
[1:10:34] Speaker 3: David and Corey came up, how they started working with Gaya,
[1:10:37] Speaker 3: Jay Widner's experiences with working with them, and then episode
[1:10:40] Speaker 3: number two, Leon is in that one, so Leon decided
[1:10:44] Speaker 3: to sit down and give his side of the story.
[1:10:47] Speaker 3: And then I'm also in episode number two as well,
[1:10:50] Speaker 3: So no, yeah, I was. I was impressed with Darcy's work.
[1:10:55] Speaker 3: I'm more than happy to work with him. And now
[1:10:57] Speaker 3: the films are out and here I am, you know,
[1:11:01] Speaker 3: sharing these stories on a bunch of podcasts and stuff,
[1:11:04] Speaker 3: which is a cathartic, nice and captive.
[1:11:07] Speaker 1: Man. I dig that we live in an era like
[1:11:10] Speaker 1: we've been discussing, where there seems to be a lot
[1:11:13] Speaker 1: of infiltration and misinformation surrounding specifically UFOs, but almost everything
[1:11:20] Speaker 1: in our mainstream reality to certain degrees, and it seems
[1:11:24] Speaker 1: to be all connected, like you said earlier, to a
[1:11:27] Speaker 1: certain degree. But when it comes to UFOs, honestly, there's
[1:11:31] Speaker 1: always been deception since the onset of this phenomena, at
[1:11:35] Speaker 1: least understanding it as something extraterrestrial, non human visitors from
[1:11:41] Speaker 1: other planets. There's always been this level of deception and
[1:11:45] Speaker 1: infiltration and trying to steer the collective understanding of what
[1:11:51] Speaker 1: is really happening. There's always been heavy military infiltration and involvement,
[1:11:58] Speaker 1: and it's always been difficult to get a true understanding,
[1:12:03] Speaker 1: especially if you're dealing with any institution or government agency.
[1:12:08] Speaker 1: I've always thought the best way to understand this phenomenon
[1:12:11] Speaker 1: is through genuine experiences, people who have had the encounters,
[1:12:16] Speaker 1: people who are honest about them and genuinely believe the experiences.
[1:12:20] Speaker 1: For me, that's my favorite way to explore the phenomena.
[1:12:25] Speaker 1: Although I do pay attention to all the mainstream information
[1:12:28] Speaker 1: that comes out just so I have a bigger picture
[1:12:31] Speaker 1: of everything. But what we're seeing right now is super interesting.
[1:12:36] Speaker 1: The revival really started in twenty seventeen with the tic
[1:12:41] Speaker 1: TAC incident, and it's kind of grown from there waning
[1:12:46] Speaker 1: in interest, and then we'd have a sighting or congressional
[1:12:49] Speaker 1: hearing and then the excitement would start up again. But
[1:12:53] Speaker 1: for the past few weeks, this is the most interesting
[1:12:56] Speaker 1: activity that I've ever seen, and puzzlement by the entire
[1:13:02] Speaker 1: world really from what has been unfolding, and the theories
[1:13:06] Speaker 1: have been everything from military black projects, foreign governments, adversaries,
[1:13:14] Speaker 1: to advance drones of some sort, to alien or extraterrestrials.
[1:13:21] Speaker 1: So very fascinating series of events that have been unfolding.
[1:13:25] Speaker 1: Let's start with your understanding of the phenomena in general
[1:13:29] Speaker 1: and where you started with it, and maybe where your
[1:13:32] Speaker 1: understanding is now.
[1:13:35] Speaker 3: So basically what I think is going on. I'll get
[1:13:40] Speaker 3: to my theories on the drones and what's been going
[1:13:43] Speaker 3: on the past few weeks. Where do you want to
[1:13:46] Speaker 3: call them drones or UFOs UAPs, whatever stuff in the sky.
[1:13:51] Speaker 3: I want to touch on the last seven years. You
[1:13:54] Speaker 3: mentioned the interest started again primarily because the two New
[1:14:00] Speaker 3: York Times articles that came out in December twenty seventeen.
[1:14:03] Speaker 3: Although I highly question the agenda at play here, because
[1:14:08] Speaker 3: when I see the mainstream media and the government sort
[1:14:11] Speaker 3: of collude to bring out these narratives and oh it's
[1:14:13] Speaker 3: cool to talk about now, Well, why why did you
[1:14:17] Speaker 3: get greenlit to come out with this secret UFO program
[1:14:20] Speaker 3: and these black and white TikTok videos and whatever the case?
[1:14:23] Speaker 3: What's the real agenda here?
[1:14:24] Speaker 2: Right?
[1:14:25] Speaker 3: Because, like you said, for decades, there's been a suppression
[1:14:29] Speaker 3: of this issue since all the way back in the
[1:14:31] Speaker 3: forties and fifties and the Project Blue Book Gatekeepers, and
[1:14:34] Speaker 3: for so long it's been a ridiculed subject, or if
[1:14:37] Speaker 3: you're not ridiculed, you'll get black suits trying to shut
[1:14:40] Speaker 3: you down and all this sort of stuff. Well, why
[1:14:43] Speaker 3: all of a sudden in twenty seventeen did they bring
[1:14:46] Speaker 3: this stuff out. Well, if you look at their narratives,
[1:14:48] Speaker 3: I think one big tell that there's some sort of
[1:14:51] Speaker 3: UFO sy op in play at the mainstream level is
[1:14:54] Speaker 3: because one narrative that I've heard the New York Times promote,
[1:14:59] Speaker 3: I've heard some of these UFO legacy influencers promote, including
[1:15:05] Speaker 3: Louel Azando, Jeremy Corbel. Maybe we could call these individuals
[1:15:09] Speaker 3: gatekeepers or whatever, or useful idiots, but we that narrative
[1:15:14] Speaker 3: is that these UFOs could be Russia, they could be China,
[1:15:20] Speaker 3: they could even be aliens. But we know for a
[1:15:23] Speaker 3: fact they are not US made technology. I'm sitting there.
[1:15:28] Speaker 3: You know, that was in a government report that was
[1:15:30] Speaker 3: in New York Times articles, Lessondo, Jeremy Corbel, a lot
[1:15:33] Speaker 3: of these guys promoting that narrative. How are you so
[1:15:36] Speaker 3: sure it's not US made? I mean, if they are
[1:15:40] Speaker 3: man made, I would think that the US would be,
[1:15:44] Speaker 3: you know, the number one nation that would have secret
[1:15:47] Speaker 3: black project craft with exotic propulsion systems. So that makes
[1:15:51] Speaker 3: me question highly right there. And when you also look
[1:15:53] Speaker 3: at the information they're coming out with, they're just talking
[1:15:57] Speaker 3: about what the a tip program that ran from two
[1:16:00] Speaker 3: thousand and eight to twenty twelve or fourteen or whatever,
[1:16:03] Speaker 3: just a few years, a few million bucks in this project.
[1:16:06] Speaker 3: All they were doing is just studying photos and videos,
[1:16:09] Speaker 3: nothing really extravagant. So what I think it is is
[1:16:13] Speaker 3: a limited hangout operation. And the idea of a limited
[1:16:16] Speaker 3: hangout is that when the veil of secrecy starts to
[1:16:19] Speaker 3: get shrouded, basically people are asking questions that you don't
[1:16:24] Speaker 3: want them to ask, you bring out, you offer, volunteer
[1:16:27] Speaker 3: up a little bit of truth to placate them, placate
[1:16:31] Speaker 3: the questioners in order to get them to stop questioning,
[1:16:35] Speaker 3: get them happy with the little bit of truth you're
[1:16:37] Speaker 3: giving them, and then you can keep the rest of
[1:16:39] Speaker 3: the stuff more secret and they won't inquire any further
[1:16:42] Speaker 3: into that deeper, more sensitive stuff you want to keep secret.
[1:16:45] Speaker 3: So I think it's quite possible we're seeing just a
[1:16:48] Speaker 3: limited hangout op where they're offering up a drop in
[1:16:52] Speaker 3: the bucket, this little a tip program, couple of black
[1:16:54] Speaker 3: and white videos. All we're doing is studying sightings when
[1:16:58] Speaker 3: really the defense contractors, in my opinion, have probably already
[1:17:03] Speaker 3: developed some saucers or black triangles that utilize electrogravitic technology.
[1:17:09] Speaker 3: They probably got a couple. They've probably invested tens, if
[1:17:13] Speaker 3: not hundreds of billions of dollars into these black projects,
[1:17:15] Speaker 3: which is why the Pentagon has all this missing money
[1:17:17] Speaker 3: they can't account for, and defense contractors up charging you know,
[1:17:22] Speaker 3: ten thousand dollars for hammers and forty thousand dollars for
[1:17:24] Speaker 3: toilet seats. Where's that extra money go? So at the
[1:17:29] Speaker 3: mainstream UFO level, I think we're seeing just a pitiful,
[1:17:33] Speaker 3: limited hangout siop. And you probably have a couple of
[1:17:36] Speaker 3: these influencers being prayed around the media. A couple of
[1:17:40] Speaker 3: them probably have disinformation they were given. You probably also
[1:17:44] Speaker 3: have a lot of useful idiots, like I would say
[1:17:47] Speaker 3: David Grush is in this category. David Grush seems like
[1:17:50] Speaker 3: a genuine dude, but he's probably got people in his
[1:17:53] Speaker 3: ear given him intel that he's believing and he's trusting,
[1:17:58] Speaker 3: and he's you know. So I think we're seeing a
[1:18:00] Speaker 3: lot of useful idiots. And then on the other side
[1:18:03] Speaker 3: of that spectrum, you've got mainstream media syops going on
[1:18:06] Speaker 3: over here. And then as we've been discussing for the
[1:18:09] Speaker 3: first part of the show, you've got the crazy conspiracist
[1:18:12] Speaker 3: twenty and back. Everybody's an insider. Everybody on the internet's
[1:18:16] Speaker 3: channeling these days. You know, if you need a job,
[1:18:20] Speaker 3: just call yourself a Secret Space Program whistleblower and guy
[1:18:23] Speaker 3: will hire you for a show. So I'm kind of
[1:18:27] Speaker 3: like right in the middle. I think these twenty and
[1:18:32] Speaker 3: back whistleblowers, I'm a super soldier secret Space Program guy.
[1:18:36] Speaker 3: I think a lot of them are full of crap.
[1:18:39] Speaker 3: But I'm also not believing the mainstream stuff, and I
[1:18:42] Speaker 3: think the truth kind of in the middle deeper than
[1:18:44] Speaker 3: what the mainstream is admitting not as extravagant or a
[1:18:48] Speaker 3: sensationalist as what you're seeing on social media. So that's
[1:18:52] Speaker 3: kind of my opinion on what's happening with the UFO spectrum.
[1:18:57] Speaker 3: And it's tough because at the end of the day,
[1:19:01] Speaker 3: there's so many, let's see, so many people that don't
[1:19:05] Speaker 3: have the full picture. You just kind of have to
[1:19:09] Speaker 3: and there's so many questionable people out there, whether it's
[1:19:11] Speaker 3: just grifters or opportunists at best, or maybe three letter
[1:19:15] Speaker 3: agency disinformation assets at worst, there's a lot of those
[1:19:19] Speaker 3: out there, So you just can't assume that everybody has
[1:19:24] Speaker 3: one hundred percent of the truth, whoever it is, whether
[1:19:27] Speaker 3: it's Alessando or Greer or whoever your favorite UFO podcaster
[1:19:31] Speaker 3: is right, you just kind of have to scrub all
[1:19:35] Speaker 3: their information and see, I don't even want to say,
[1:19:39] Speaker 3: see what resonates, because I don't like that that understanding people.
[1:19:45] Speaker 3: I'm gonna go with my gut feeling and see what resonates.
[1:19:47] Speaker 3: But what resonates with you might not be the truth, right,
[1:19:50] Speaker 3: So anyway, you just kind of have to see what corroborates.
[1:19:53] Speaker 3: I guess we could say, And there's so many rumors
[1:19:57] Speaker 3: as well too, and people are taking room as evidence
[1:20:04] Speaker 3: not the best right. You can't just even in a
[1:20:07] Speaker 3: legal courtroom, you can't just enter rumor. You have to
[1:20:11] Speaker 3: have things corroborated. You have to have a preponderance of evidence.
[1:20:14] Speaker 3: And people are taking certain influencers on the internet as well,
[1:20:18] Speaker 3: and they're just blindly believe in them hook line and sinker,
[1:20:21] Speaker 3: which is very dangerous. So yeah, it's the UFO subject
[1:20:25] Speaker 3: of all of them, is one of the most difficult
[1:20:28] Speaker 3: to investigate because there's so many contradicting narratives and all that,
[1:20:32] Speaker 3: and at the end of the day, we just kind
[1:20:35] Speaker 3: of have to sit in this space of I can
[1:20:39] Speaker 3: have an idea of what's going on, but I'm not
[1:20:41] Speaker 3: going to know the truth. There's some things we might
[1:20:43] Speaker 3: never know the truth about, right, and our egos don't
[1:20:45] Speaker 3: like that. Our egos like to think we know exactly
[1:20:48] Speaker 3: what's going on, so we can have a secure sense
[1:20:50] Speaker 3: of reality, like I know for a fact it's going on.
[1:20:53] Speaker 3: At the end of the day, there's some things we
[1:20:54] Speaker 3: might never know and some things are We're going to
[1:20:58] Speaker 3: require a lot more investigation than just believing these gatekeepers
[1:21:02] Speaker 3: or these authorities, whether they're on the mainstream media or
[1:21:05] Speaker 3: on social media, self proclaimed authorities or experts on the narrative,
[1:21:12] Speaker 3: they might not know either. They might they think they
[1:21:15] Speaker 3: know the whole picture because they like to think of
[1:21:18] Speaker 3: themselves as experts, but there could be a lot of
[1:21:20] Speaker 3: pieces of the picture they're missing. So it's very tough,
[1:21:23] Speaker 3: this whole UFO issue. But I do think there's you know,
[1:21:28] Speaker 3: there's a lot of people, like you said earlier, a
[1:21:30] Speaker 3: lot of witnesses that have come forward, experiencers, So you
[1:21:34] Speaker 3: just kind of have to, you know, take in this
[1:21:37] Speaker 3: information and then just hold it in the back of
[1:21:40] Speaker 3: your mind, but just be cakd about what you are
[1:21:44] Speaker 3: confident in believing, and then just see what kind of
[1:21:47] Speaker 3: comes to the surface as you continuously go through old
[1:21:51] Speaker 3: government documents or listen to these experiencers or witnesses, or
[1:21:55] Speaker 3: research these patents, all these sorts of things. I guess
[1:21:59] Speaker 3: that kind of finishes.
[1:22:00] Speaker 1: What about what's happening now with the mass drone sightings,
[1:22:05] Speaker 1: there's two things that are pretty disturbing, and they're along
[1:22:10] Speaker 1: the same lines. Really, if our military and government truly
[1:22:15] Speaker 1: has no idea what any of this is, that's disturbing enough.
[1:22:20] Speaker 1: But On the other hand, if they do and they're
[1:22:23] Speaker 1: not telling us for some reason, that is equally as
[1:22:26] Speaker 1: disturbing to me, And it's on par either way. I
[1:22:30] Speaker 1: could see either one being true, just because of what
[1:22:34] Speaker 1: I've learned about the nature of our ruling class, the
[1:22:37] Speaker 1: nature of our government and systems. What are your thoughts
[1:22:41] Speaker 1: about what is unfolding right now as we're speaking with
[1:22:44] Speaker 1: the sightings?
[1:22:46] Speaker 3: Oh man, Yeah, there's a lot of theories going around
[1:22:49] Speaker 3: out there, some of them less plausible in my opinion,
[1:22:53] Speaker 3: some of the more plausible. I don't think these are aliens.
[1:22:57] Speaker 3: When you look at the legitimate videos word the legit
[1:23:01] Speaker 3: videos of these craft in the sky, they clearly have
[1:23:03] Speaker 3: flashing lights, external aviation lights and things like that. So no,
[1:23:07] Speaker 3: I don't think these are galactic federation ships or reptile
[1:23:12] Speaker 3: aliens or whatever we're gonna call them. It also goes
[1:23:16] Speaker 3: to note that while I do believe some of the
[1:23:19] Speaker 3: initial reports, initial videos that surfaced at first weeks ago,
[1:23:24] Speaker 3: I think those were legitimate sightings of unknown craft. But
[1:23:29] Speaker 3: in the weeks that have followed, especially over the last
[1:23:32] Speaker 3: three or four days, there are so many people kind
[1:23:36] Speaker 3: of in a knee jerk reaction almost paranoid state, and
[1:23:40] Speaker 3: they are misconstruing planes for UFOs, helicopters for UFOs. There's
[1:23:47] Speaker 3: old videos getting resurfaced as if they're new. There's CGIAI
[1:23:51] Speaker 3: videos going viral on the internet. So there's a lot
[1:23:54] Speaker 3: of fake or misconstrued sightings just adding to the hysteria.
[1:23:59] Speaker 3: There's a lot of area around this, so it's adding
[1:24:02] Speaker 3: to the confusion. And also I think it's quite possible
[1:24:06] Speaker 3: that it might not just be one group, but you
[1:24:11] Speaker 3: could have had some group test or conduct operations with
[1:24:15] Speaker 3: these drones or craft in the sky at first, and
[1:24:18] Speaker 3: then you have another group see that happen and see
[1:24:22] Speaker 3: the confusion start to ensue, and then they used that
[1:24:26] Speaker 3: mass confusion to their own advantage and then start testing
[1:24:29] Speaker 3: their own platforms. And you have another group, maybe somewhere else,
[1:24:31] Speaker 3: starting to test test their own because the confusion kind
[1:24:34] Speaker 3: of gives them a cover to do that. So you
[1:24:37] Speaker 3: could have multiple groups, multiple things in the sky, with
[1:24:41] Speaker 3: different agendas from different you know, different programs. All right,
[1:24:47] Speaker 3: I highly doubt the Pentagon doesn't know what's going on.
[1:24:51] Speaker 3: They've come out with their you know CYA statements, Oh
[1:24:55] Speaker 3: we don't know what it is. It's not a foreign entity,
[1:24:58] Speaker 3: but we don't know what it is, Okay. I do
[1:25:02] Speaker 3: find it curious that they are not pinning it on
[1:25:04] Speaker 3: a foreign entity. So you know, if it was the
[1:25:07] Speaker 3: deep State or some shadowy intelligence group, what they would
[1:25:11] Speaker 3: probably try to do is pin it on a foreign adversary,
[1:25:14] Speaker 3: because we know the New World Order wants to foment war.
[1:25:18] Speaker 3: They love their war, they love dropping bombs and making
[1:25:20] Speaker 3: money from it. Find it curious that they're not trying
[1:25:22] Speaker 3: to pin it on a foreign entity. But Pentagon also says,
[1:25:26] Speaker 3: nothing to see here, it's not ours. Hmm. You know.
[1:25:30] Speaker 3: One of those, one of those maybe plausible theories I've
[1:25:34] Speaker 3: seen going around is that these could be covert programs
[1:25:39] Speaker 3: that are sniffing ports for dirty bombs and EMPs, something
[1:25:46] Speaker 3: that maybe a foreign foreign government is trying to sneak
[1:25:51] Speaker 3: into this country, or a terrorist or some deep state
[1:25:54] Speaker 3: splinter cell group. So these could be Pentagon craft not
[1:25:59] Speaker 3: doing anything evil, but sniffing for potential terroristic threats, and
[1:26:06] Speaker 3: it kind of makes sense. The Pentagon wouldn't want to
[1:26:08] Speaker 3: admit that. But there's always there's counter arguments to each
[1:26:12] Speaker 3: of these hypotheses. So counter arguments to that Okay, well,
[1:26:16] Speaker 3: why are these drones only being seen over New Jersey?
[1:26:19] Speaker 3: Then why aren't we seeing them over other ports? But
[1:26:21] Speaker 3: we just did get some reports last night that there's
[1:26:23] Speaker 3: drones being seen over La. Okay, maybe they're expanding their operations,
[1:26:27] Speaker 3: or maybe what's going on in New Jersey is the misdirection,
[1:26:31] Speaker 3: and the more important operations are happening over other ports
[1:26:35] Speaker 3: or over the border other areas, and what's happening in
[1:26:38] Speaker 3: New Jersey is just sort of a misdirection. Get everybody
[1:26:41] Speaker 3: focused there while things are happening elsewhere. So I don't know.
[1:26:47] Speaker 3: I'm just kind of going on the threads of that
[1:26:50] Speaker 3: theory seeing if it makes sense or not, or at
[1:26:53] Speaker 3: the end of the day, there could be no real
[1:26:56] Speaker 3: tactical operations going on. The whole thing could be a
[1:27:02] Speaker 3: psyop for whether to push surveillance legislation. Oh, look at
[1:27:10] Speaker 3: all these drones that we don't know about. We need
[1:27:12] Speaker 3: more surveillance. Maybe the establishment is going to try to
[1:27:16] Speaker 3: capitalize on the fear. I don't think it's the whole
[1:27:22] Speaker 3: Blue Beam thing. Me personally, I'm not much of a
[1:27:25] Speaker 3: project Bluebeam guy. I think that whole narrative is dubious
[1:27:30] Speaker 3: in the first place, I don't think we have any
[1:27:32] Speaker 3: evidence to show Project Blue Beam was actually a NASA
[1:27:35] Speaker 3: military project they ever wanted to do. I kind of
[1:27:39] Speaker 3: think the whole Blue Beam narrative that's been online for
[1:27:41] Speaker 3: like twenty thirty years is a lot more sort of
[1:27:45] Speaker 3: clickbait fear porn than anything. Plus, when you look into
[1:27:50] Speaker 3: like the original claims of what Project Bluebeam actually is,
[1:27:57] Speaker 3: it starts with the whole Project Bluebeam narrative starts with
[1:28:02] Speaker 3: manufactured earthquakes and archaeological discoveries from those manufactured earthquakes, which
[1:28:08] Speaker 3: we haven't had anyhow. And Yeah, the whole Blue Beam
[1:28:12] Speaker 3: thing doesn't make sense to me when I dig into it,
[1:28:14] Speaker 3: and I don't think this is Project Bluebeam or fake
[1:28:17] Speaker 3: alien invasion. I think that's just convenient clickbait for Internet
[1:28:20] Speaker 3: influencers and convenient fear porn. But at the end of
[1:28:23] Speaker 3: the day, I think the most plausible scenarios to me
[1:28:26] Speaker 3: at this point it could change, of course, are covert
[1:28:30] Speaker 3: operations sniffing for dirty bombs and EMPs or the whole
[1:28:35] Speaker 3: things a freaking' syop to push some sort of drone
[1:28:39] Speaker 3: legislation or surveillance legislation. But I'm not at this point,
[1:28:46] Speaker 3: I'm not concerned about it blowing up into anything devastating,
[1:28:53] Speaker 3: if you will, I guess I'm just kind of sitting
[1:28:57] Speaker 3: and seeing how the reactions take place. Maybe, you know.
[1:29:00] Speaker 3: And again, anytime the establishment conducts an operation, there's always
[1:29:03] Speaker 3: multiple agendas at play. COVID is a great example. The
[1:29:07] Speaker 3: multiple agendas were, you know, destroy the lower middle class,
[1:29:12] Speaker 3: siphon money to the upper class, lock everybody down, push
[1:29:15] Speaker 3: mandatory vaccines, sensor on the internet. So anytime the establishment
[1:29:20] Speaker 3: does something, there's usually multiple agendas at play, And in
[1:29:25] Speaker 3: this case, maybe there's sort of multiple agendas at play.
[1:29:28] Speaker 3: By whatever these drones or skycraft are testing the waters,
[1:29:35] Speaker 3: just gauging public reaction, that could be one of the agendas,
[1:29:39] Speaker 3: if not, the main agenda is just to see test
[1:29:42] Speaker 3: the waters of public reactions so they can then work
[1:29:49] Speaker 3: their future operations in a more strategic manner, right, something
[1:29:53] Speaker 3: like that. Maybe part of it could be sniffing for
[1:29:57] Speaker 3: dirty bombs. I've also seen it suggested in maybe a
[1:30:00] Speaker 3: few of these unidentified drones could fit into this category.
[1:30:03] Speaker 3: But there's some corporations like one called Terot Dynamics p
[1:30:10] Speaker 3: t r O Tterot Dynamics. There's another company, Pivotal Arrow,
[1:30:16] Speaker 3: and these two companies have recently signed contracts with the
[1:30:19] Speaker 3: military to test vitall craft vertical takeoff and landing craft
[1:30:25] Speaker 3: that are like manned quad copters that you know. So
[1:30:29] Speaker 3: maybe some of these drone sightings could be just testing
[1:30:32] Speaker 3: of basically manned drones manned quad copters. But again, these
[1:30:40] Speaker 3: sightings could be a few different things. So maybe some
[1:30:42] Speaker 3: of them are testing of vertical takeoff and landing craft.
[1:30:45] Speaker 3: Maybe some of them are actually foreign spy drones just
[1:30:48] Speaker 3: taking advantage of the mass confusion. Oh, perfect timing for
[1:30:51] Speaker 3: us to send our craft up and get some intel
[1:30:54] Speaker 3: or something like that. And then some of these could
[1:30:56] Speaker 3: be sniffing operations. I don't know. The whole thing is
[1:31:01] Speaker 3: just a mess right now, and it's extra difficult because
[1:31:03] Speaker 3: of course government or law enforcement doesn't want to say anything.
[1:31:07] Speaker 3: We know, these agencies sometimes have a difficult time sharing
[1:31:11] Speaker 3: information with each other, and then low level law enforcement
[1:31:15] Speaker 3: and low level politicians they're not going to be read
[1:31:18] Speaker 3: in onto any secret programs, so they're just as confused
[1:31:21] Speaker 3: as we are, and they're trying to investigate it. They're
[1:31:23] Speaker 3: not getting answers.
[1:31:25] Speaker 1: I agree, I think that it's probably not aliens or
[1:31:29] Speaker 1: something non human, but I do find it interesting that
[1:31:32] Speaker 1: it coincides the recent congressional hearings and the re emergence
[1:31:38] Speaker 1: of interest in UFOs. You mentioned the Grush character who
[1:31:42] Speaker 1: claims that there are bodies in possession. If there's an
[1:31:47] Speaker 1: operation to attempt to get the masses to believe in aliens,
[1:31:53] Speaker 1: to believe in a threat from outside, this would be
[1:31:58] Speaker 1: probably the way they do it. And if this is
[1:32:01] Speaker 1: an ongoing operation that has been in effect for a
[1:32:05] Speaker 1: very long time, I wonder what links have they already
[1:32:09] Speaker 1: gone to. I've had guests on researchers that have posed
[1:32:14] Speaker 1: the possibility that maybe our military has been involved with
[1:32:19] Speaker 1: the UFO phenomena, all the way up to abducting people
[1:32:23] Speaker 1: mind control experiments, using drugs to get the victim to
[1:32:28] Speaker 1: believe that they were abducted by aliens, when in reality
[1:32:32] Speaker 1: it was a military operation. We'll fast forward to our
[1:32:36] Speaker 1: secret space super soldiers that we hear about today. I
[1:32:40] Speaker 1: agree with you. I think most of them are attention seeking,
[1:32:45] Speaker 1: crazed weirdos, but some of them truly are traumatized by
[1:32:51] Speaker 1: their experiences. Some of them really believe their experiences, and
[1:32:55] Speaker 1: there are some that postulate that these may be victims
[1:32:59] Speaker 1: of some kind of program that is either implanting false memories,
[1:33:05] Speaker 1: drugging people, forcing some sort of out of body experience
[1:33:10] Speaker 1: but in a controlled state to make them believe that
[1:33:13] Speaker 1: they are on another planet fighting aliens. But it's all
[1:33:17] Speaker 1: too really perpetuates a UFO narrative and cause confusion within
[1:33:23] Speaker 1: the community. Now I don't know about any of this.
[1:33:26] Speaker 1: This is just information that's come through the show that
[1:33:29] Speaker 1: I find pretty interesting, but I'd love to get your
[1:33:32] Speaker 1: thoughts on it.
[1:33:35] Speaker 3: Yeah, no doubt. You know. One curious aspect about these
[1:33:39] Speaker 3: drones is that many of the videos we're seeing online
[1:33:44] Speaker 3: that look legitimate, they don't seem to be using any
[1:33:49] Speaker 3: exotic propulsion systems. We're seeing the standard sort of archaic
[1:33:55] Speaker 3: aeroplane propulsion in that they're either using wings or propellers
[1:34:00] Speaker 3: Bernoulli's principle. And then again, a lot of these have
[1:34:03] Speaker 3: like FAA regulation external aircraft lights. So while I do
[1:34:10] Speaker 3: think that defense contractors in the military dust complex have
[1:34:15] Speaker 3: electrogravitic levitating saucers at their disposal, how many and how
[1:34:22] Speaker 3: much they've developed those is in question, But I do
[1:34:25] Speaker 3: think they've got at least a couple of their own
[1:34:29] Speaker 3: sort of man made UFOs. But these drones in the
[1:34:33] Speaker 3: skies don't seem to be that kind like secret craft maybe,
[1:34:38] Speaker 3: but craft that still use wings and propellers. So that's
[1:34:40] Speaker 3: what's interesting to me. Although I will say there was
[1:34:43] Speaker 3: a sighting on the West Coast earlier this week, and
[1:34:47] Speaker 3: there's some viral audio going around of recordings from air
[1:34:52] Speaker 3: traffic control. This was in organ between Eugene Organ in
[1:34:58] Speaker 3: the coast. There were four unidentified things in the sky
[1:35:04] Speaker 3: being seen going back and forth between the ocean and
[1:35:06] Speaker 3: Eugene Organ and it was seen by a couple different aircraft.
[1:35:10] Speaker 3: And there's recordings on the Internet of the audio radio
[1:35:14] Speaker 3: transmissions between air traffic control and some of these pilots.
[1:35:18] Speaker 3: That one's interesting, and frankly, with how these pilots are
[1:35:22] Speaker 3: describing the craft moving in quartscrew motions and going very
[1:35:25] Speaker 3: fast between like Eugene Corvallis and the ocean. That one
[1:35:30] Speaker 3: might I don't think that one's propeller, granted it could
[1:35:34] Speaker 3: still be a man made craft, might not be a
[1:35:36] Speaker 3: man made craft, but that one they could be using
[1:35:40] Speaker 3: that could be like an exotic propulsion electro gravitic platform,
[1:35:46] Speaker 3: but at least what we're seeing in New Jersey seems
[1:35:48] Speaker 3: to be old school propellers wings Bernelli's principle in terms
[1:35:54] Speaker 3: of all of the narratives we're getting on the Internet
[1:36:02] Speaker 3: regarding the UFO phenomena, whether like you said, you know,
[1:36:06] Speaker 3: abductions from aliens or are they abductions from humans that
[1:36:10] Speaker 3: are posing as aliens just to feed the stories out
[1:36:13] Speaker 3: there and blah blah blah. You know, this subject dealing
[1:36:17] Speaker 3: with suppressed technologies, whether it's zero point energy technology, electrogrivitic
[1:36:22] Speaker 3: propulsion are placed in the cosmos, and intelligent life out there,
[1:36:30] Speaker 3: And then what's the agenda of the intelligent life out
[1:36:32] Speaker 3: in the cosmos? Negative, positive, manevolent, benevolent. I think there's
[1:36:39] Speaker 3: different groups with different agendas. So when I hear people
[1:36:44] Speaker 3: on both sides of the spectrum, you've got some out
[1:36:47] Speaker 3: there like Greer saying, oh, all the alien life in
[1:36:51] Speaker 3: the cosmos is good and positive evil is only on Earth.
[1:36:56] Speaker 3: I question that. But I also question the people that
[1:36:59] Speaker 3: say all aliens are demons, everything out there in the
[1:37:02] Speaker 3: cosmos is demonic. Earth is the only place with positive, happy, good,
[1:37:09] Speaker 3: benevolent people on it seems real weird to me as well,
[1:37:14] Speaker 3: And it's typically the fundamentalist religious attitude that has that.
[1:37:18] Speaker 3: And I just think to myself, man, God must be
[1:37:21] Speaker 3: a dick if he made all the life in the
[1:37:24] Speaker 3: whole universe demonic, and we're the only ones here that aren't.
[1:37:28] Speaker 3: So I don't resonate with either of those. I think
[1:37:31] Speaker 3: there are civilizations out there in the cosmos, some probably
[1:37:37] Speaker 3: much more advanced than us, with a variety of different agendas.
[1:37:41] Speaker 3: Some probably don't give a shit about what's going on
[1:37:43] Speaker 3: this planet. Some probably want this to be a slave planet.
[1:37:46] Speaker 3: Some probably want this to You want us to get
[1:37:49] Speaker 3: our crap together and become a you know, much more happy,
[1:37:55] Speaker 3: awaken away species that can actually go out into space
[1:38:00] Speaker 3: and work with different civilizations. So yeah, But in terms
[1:38:06] Speaker 3: of this issue, I mean with how sensitive it is suppressed.
[1:38:10] Speaker 3: Technologies that could effectively liberate us from these slave systems,
[1:38:16] Speaker 3: and also just the understanding of our place in the
[1:38:20] Speaker 3: cosmos would destroy so many control systems. Like fundamentalist, I
[1:38:28] Speaker 3: want to be specific here because I'm not against religion
[1:38:31] Speaker 3: by any means. I think they are helpful tools for
[1:38:33] Speaker 3: many people. But I do also think that the upper
[1:38:39] Speaker 3: echelon of these religions has been infiltrated, has corrupted these
[1:38:46] Speaker 3: religious people at the upper echelons of some of these
[1:38:49] Speaker 3: religions that have corrupted them, and then use them for control.
[1:38:52] Speaker 3: So I say, establishment or the organized mainstream religions, if
[1:38:58] Speaker 3: we understood our plac here in the cosmos, these organized
[1:39:01] Speaker 3: religions would crumble, they'd have much less control. Also, mainstream
[1:39:07] Speaker 3: science would have you know, would be exposed of how
[1:39:11] Speaker 3: propagandized it is, and the whole you know, global full
[1:39:17] Speaker 3: spectrum dominance control system would crumble. So the whole UFO
[1:39:21] Speaker 3: subject and all the sub threads, so many different sub
[1:39:24] Speaker 3: threads that it contains. It's probably the most sensitive subject
[1:39:32] Speaker 3: to the powers that be, and the one subject that
[1:39:34] Speaker 3: they have invested the most in keeping hidden classified in secret,
[1:39:40] Speaker 3: going back decades, centuries even probably, So it would reason
[1:39:46] Speaker 3: to suggest, and we mentioned earlier, so many people are
[1:39:49] Speaker 3: moving away from the mainstream media that they're going to
[1:39:53] Speaker 3: alternative and social media for their news now. So it
[1:39:55] Speaker 3: makes sense that the powers that be, the people that
[1:39:58] Speaker 3: watch the mainstream media, they that still believe it, they're
[1:40:02] Speaker 3: caught up by it, hook line and sinker. The powers
[1:40:04] Speaker 3: that be don't need to invest that much into the
[1:40:07] Speaker 3: mainstream media anymore. They're going to go after the threats.
[1:40:12] Speaker 3: The threats are the people looking for truth on social
[1:40:14] Speaker 3: media and alternative media. So it's completely reasonable to assume
[1:40:18] Speaker 3: that the powers that be, the deep State, they would
[1:40:21] Speaker 3: be sending loads of disinformation assets, loads of syops into
[1:40:28] Speaker 3: alternative and social media to muddy the waters, to confuse people,
[1:40:34] Speaker 3: to misdirect them, waste their time, lead them astray. And
[1:40:38] Speaker 3: this has probably been going on even before social media,
[1:40:42] Speaker 3: back in the radio broadcast days, back in the mid
[1:40:46] Speaker 3: to late twentieth century, they were probably sending disinfo assets
[1:40:51] Speaker 3: into meetup groups and local conspiracy UFO groups around the country,
[1:40:56] Speaker 3: sending their assets into get intelligence and to you know,
[1:41:02] Speaker 3: keep tabs on these people. So yeah, no, that's why
[1:41:05] Speaker 3: I am very cautious with the whole UFO community, because
[1:41:11] Speaker 3: there's probably a heck of a lot of misinformation that
[1:41:14] Speaker 3: gets repeated by people who just don't realize it's misinformation.
[1:41:18] Speaker 3: Like the you know, Galactic Federation Ashtark command narratives that
[1:41:24] Speaker 3: started thirty years ago just get repeated, repeated, repeated, same
[1:41:27] Speaker 3: thing with a lot of these Project Bluebeam narratives that
[1:41:30] Speaker 3: started thirty years ago that just get repeated, repeated, repeated,
[1:41:33] Speaker 3: And now we've got a lot of new faces coming
[1:41:37] Speaker 3: into the picture, whether it's mainstream UFO legacy gatekeepers or
[1:41:42] Speaker 3: new faces on social media that claim they're in contact
[1:41:45] Speaker 3: with aliens, and there's some you know, emissary to humanity,
[1:41:50] Speaker 3: or they claim to be super soldiers in Secret Space
[1:41:52] Speaker 3: program whistle bolowers. So there's just so much. The waters
[1:41:56] Speaker 3: are so muddy, But we do need to be careful
[1:41:58] Speaker 3: because we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
[1:42:01] Speaker 3: Just because we have one dude claiming he was a
[1:42:04] Speaker 3: secret Space super sold or whistleblower just because he's fake,
[1:42:08] Speaker 3: doesn't mean that everyone is fake, right. Or just because
[1:42:12] Speaker 3: we have one dude being paraded around CNN who's clearly
[1:42:16] Speaker 3: a government disinfo asset, just because he's saying some fake
[1:42:21] Speaker 3: stuff about UFOs doesn't mean the whole subject's fake, right.
[1:42:24] Speaker 3: So it's a very nuanced conversation, very nuanced subject that
[1:42:29] Speaker 3: you have to be very very careful in digging into.
[1:42:32] Speaker 1: Where are you at with the true nature of this phenomena,
[1:42:36] Speaker 1: Although I know that it could probably never be really understood,
[1:42:39] Speaker 1: especially with where we're at right now, but my understanding
[1:42:44] Speaker 1: has shifted. It continues to change with new understandings and information.
[1:42:48] Speaker 1: But I was very much at one point a very
[1:42:51] Speaker 1: nuts and bolts these are physical beings coming and interacting
[1:42:56] Speaker 1: with us, And now I'm not so sure. I am
[1:42:59] Speaker 1: leaning towards more of a metaphysical consciousness phenomena because I've
[1:43:04] Speaker 1: had experiences myself where it seems as some intelligence took
[1:43:10] Speaker 1: over my complete perception and change what I was seeing
[1:43:14] Speaker 1: and change what I was able to perceive for an
[1:43:17] Speaker 1: amount of time. Now, what that tells me is if
[1:43:20] Speaker 1: there's any intelligence that can do that, they can change
[1:43:24] Speaker 1: a person's perception in a way to make them believe
[1:43:27] Speaker 1: maybe they're on a craft, maybe they are in a
[1:43:30] Speaker 1: situation dealing with beings, but in reality, they could be
[1:43:34] Speaker 1: just in their bed and having this experience purely through
[1:43:40] Speaker 1: their consciousness. And that doesn't negate the experience, that doesn't
[1:43:43] Speaker 1: make it not real, but it does change the phenomena
[1:43:48] Speaker 1: if indeed it may be some sort of metaphysical intelligence.
[1:43:53] Speaker 1: Based on my own experiences and many that I have
[1:43:56] Speaker 1: interviewed that have this understanding, there's a emerging understanding or
[1:44:02] Speaker 1: belief that this may be more of a consciousness phenomena
[1:44:06] Speaker 1: than a physical one.
[1:44:09] Speaker 3: So just purely my opinion, I can be quite confident
[1:44:15] Speaker 3: in my opinions, but I can also change them as well.
[1:44:18] Speaker 3: I think ninety percent of the legitimate UFOs we see
[1:44:22] Speaker 3: in the skies are man made craft, but I do
[1:44:25] Speaker 3: think there's a select few that are not. In terms
[1:44:29] Speaker 3: of the makeup of life from outside our planet, what
[1:44:35] Speaker 3: is extrastrial life like. There's this argument that goes back
[1:44:40] Speaker 3: and forth. Well, they're physical, No, they're not physical. They're
[1:44:43] Speaker 3: all interdimensional. No they're not. Why not both? Again another
[1:44:48] Speaker 3: sort of nuanced conversation, But why not both? If you
[1:44:52] Speaker 3: look at us as humans, we are both. We've got
[1:44:56] Speaker 3: these physical meats to bodies, but we all also have
[1:44:59] Speaker 3: a out of physical or interdimensional. I don't really like
[1:45:03] Speaker 3: that term, but I use it for buzzword's sake. We
[1:45:07] Speaker 3: are both physical and non physical. We are in interdimensional beings.
[1:45:10] Speaker 3: We have meat suit and then we have this consciousness
[1:45:13] Speaker 3: that you know, we go to sleep, we dream at night.
[1:45:16] Speaker 3: We have these astra pet projections in the dream state
[1:45:19] Speaker 3: when we're waking and conscious we you know, if you
[1:45:22] Speaker 3: want to experiment with some mushrooms or DMT, then you
[1:45:25] Speaker 3: really go into the astral state. We're both we are interdimensional,
[1:45:30] Speaker 3: so why wouldn't life out there in the cosmos. I'm
[1:45:34] Speaker 3: just kind of like a logically deductive person where I
[1:45:38] Speaker 3: am kind of nuts and bolts and left brain, but
[1:45:41] Speaker 3: at the same time I'm also right brain, and I
[1:45:44] Speaker 3: try to also see things from a sort of higher conscious,
[1:45:49] Speaker 3: energetic perspective, if you will, so to me, life out
[1:45:54] Speaker 3: there in the cosmos, it probably takes both and or
[1:46:00] Speaker 3: one of the other forms. So if you have a
[1:46:02] Speaker 3: I mean, all life, even plant life has an energetic
[1:46:06] Speaker 3: component along with its physical nature. Right, it's just the
[1:46:09] Speaker 3: energetic the conscious component. It all depends on. I guess
[1:46:14] Speaker 3: how evolve that being is. So plant life and animal
[1:46:18] Speaker 3: life they're gonna be. They don't have the self awareness
[1:46:21] Speaker 3: component that we do. Our consciousness is a little more evolved,
[1:46:25] Speaker 3: but our consciousness is not that evolved because we still
[1:46:27] Speaker 3: have a very difficult time working in that astral plane
[1:46:32] Speaker 3: making that conscious understanding it, like, we know very little
[1:46:36] Speaker 3: about our own consciousness. I would imagine advanced beings out
[1:46:41] Speaker 3: there in the cosmos are sort of that next level
[1:46:44] Speaker 3: in conscious evolution. They're more understanding of how to work
[1:46:47] Speaker 3: in that metaphysical plane with their consciousness in projecting it
[1:46:51] Speaker 3: and all of that. So I still think there are
[1:46:53] Speaker 3: physical extraterrestrials out there, but there's probably also nonfithysical ones
[1:47:00] Speaker 3: as well. And what does that non physical even mean?
[1:47:04] Speaker 3: Like we can only see a fraction of a percent
[1:47:07] Speaker 3: of the electromagnetic spectrum. There's so much that we just
[1:47:10] Speaker 3: can't see as humans. So much we can perceive from
[1:47:15] Speaker 3: this space time, time space, you know, ether around us.
[1:47:20] Speaker 3: So when I think of extrastrial intelligence, I think it's
[1:47:24] Speaker 3: both physical and non physical, and there's probably non physical
[1:47:30] Speaker 3: entities constantly influencing us for both good and bad. Call
[1:47:36] Speaker 3: them angels or demons if you want to, if that's
[1:47:39] Speaker 3: you know, the semantics you prefer. But yeah, no doubt.
[1:47:44] Speaker 3: I do think that non physical extrastural influence exists. I
[1:47:48] Speaker 3: think there's also some physical ones out there as well
[1:47:50] Speaker 3: that we could probably shake hands with. But I also think,
[1:47:55] Speaker 3: and this this concept was exemplified in Our Trek with
[1:48:00] Speaker 3: their Prime Directive Stargate SG one in I love that
[1:48:05] Speaker 3: TV show, but in some of those shows as well,
[1:48:07] Speaker 3: in that there's this karma, there's this free will component
[1:48:12] Speaker 3: that these extrastural civilizations take very seriously. So they just
[1:48:16] Speaker 3: can't come down and land on the White House lawn
[1:48:18] Speaker 3: and show themselves. Nor can they come down and outright
[1:48:22] Speaker 3: enslave us and put us in chains, because they would
[1:48:25] Speaker 3: be you know, they would get karmic ties with this civilization,
[1:48:28] Speaker 3: and that's something to be avoided. So I think the
[1:48:32] Speaker 3: malevolent or demonic ets, physical or non physical or whatever,
[1:48:36] Speaker 3: they have to enslave us in a way where we
[1:48:38] Speaker 3: don't realize we're enslaved, and they've probably been doing that
[1:48:41] Speaker 3: for thousands of years. Eloheem fallen angels, if you will,
[1:48:45] Speaker 3: then you have the benevolent angelic aliens, entities, what have you,
[1:48:51] Speaker 3: and they're trying to help us, but still from behind
[1:48:54] Speaker 3: the scenes, you know, in a way that's like apparent
[1:49:00] Speaker 3: most like you can't do it for the kid his
[1:49:04] Speaker 3: whole life. They have to learn how to tie their
[1:49:05] Speaker 3: shoes on their own and everything. So as as a
[1:49:08] Speaker 3: civilizational planet Earth, we have to learn how to tie
[1:49:12] Speaker 3: our own shoes and evolve on our own. So I
[1:49:17] Speaker 3: do think there's been influence on this planet for thousands
[1:49:20] Speaker 3: of years from non celestial groups, both of all agendas
[1:49:30] Speaker 3: of all different agendas that come in both physical and
[1:49:33] Speaker 3: non physical forms. Just I guess depends on the.
[1:49:35] Speaker 1: I'd like to think that's what's happening now. We're being
[1:49:38] Speaker 1: forced to learn how to tie our own shoes right now,
[1:49:41] Speaker 1: just because of the dark polarities that we're being presented.
[1:49:45] Speaker 1: We can either keep perpetuating this shitty system that we're
[1:49:50] Speaker 1: in right now, or we can learn to be self
[1:49:53] Speaker 1: reliant and check out of all the bullshit that keeps
[1:49:57] Speaker 1: humanity enslaved and under this same thumb. So it's a
[1:50:02] Speaker 1: I think it's a very special time we're going through
[1:50:04] Speaker 1: right now. I think we're evolving in many different ways.
[1:50:08] Speaker 1: For the last few minutes we have. What would you
[1:50:10] Speaker 1: tell folks that are just starting to look into this stuff,
[1:50:14] Speaker 1: just becoming curious about the nature of our reality, but
[1:50:18] Speaker 1: are surrounded by all the nonsense that we talked about earlier,
[1:50:23] Speaker 1: How would you say that they should sift through this
[1:50:28] Speaker 1: information right now?
[1:50:31] Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say a very powerful thing to do
[1:50:33] Speaker 3: is learn a few things. Number one, just learn propaganda techniques,
[1:50:38] Speaker 3: especially propaganda techniques the mainstream media uses. A lot of
[1:50:42] Speaker 3: those are used in social media as well, and honestly,
[1:50:46] Speaker 3: a lot of these propataganda techniques were kind of founded
[1:50:49] Speaker 3: by like Joseph Goebbels in the Nazis and then they
[1:50:52] Speaker 3: just kind of came over here and started using them
[1:50:54] Speaker 3: in this country. But different propaganda techniques like echo chamber effect,
[1:51:00] Speaker 3: like you know, anonymous sourced crap. There's so much anonymously
[1:51:03] Speaker 3: sourced crap from the mainstream media and on social media.
[1:51:07] Speaker 3: And learning about logical fallacies as well, being able to
[1:51:10] Speaker 3: identify logical fallacies in arguments, and also studying neuro linguistic programming,
[1:51:16] Speaker 3: so just studying these things, being able to identify psyops
[1:51:21] Speaker 3: and identify word crafting and manipulation from careful, carefully crafted
[1:51:29] Speaker 3: wording spelling. That's very important, and that's just a very
[1:51:36] Speaker 3: very potent way of being able to hone your own
[1:51:38] Speaker 3: discernment and sift through information on the Internet. And then
[1:51:42] Speaker 3: sometimes it just takes time. It takes time and experience.
[1:51:47] Speaker 3: You know, I had to go through a lot of
[1:51:48] Speaker 3: my own experiences. There was a lot of crap that
[1:51:51] Speaker 3: I believe twelve years ago that I had to wake
[1:51:54] Speaker 3: up to and change my mind about and just understand
[1:51:57] Speaker 3: that taking the red pill is not a one and
[1:52:00] Speaker 3: done process. It's not like, oh, I don't watch the
[1:52:03] Speaker 3: mainstream media anymore, so I'm awake. No, it's a constant
[1:52:06] Speaker 3: every day. You have to put on your discernment cap,
[1:52:10] Speaker 3: you have to take that red pill. It's a lifelong
[1:52:12] Speaker 3: process of continuing the self education and honing your discernment.
[1:52:18] Speaker 3: And also, i'll finish this that with this is being
[1:52:23] Speaker 3: able to control your emotions because it's through sensationalism, it's
[1:52:28] Speaker 3: through emotional manipulation. Is the easiest way the mainstream media
[1:52:35] Speaker 3: and these influencers on social media will manipulate you. Is
[1:52:39] Speaker 3: because when we're in that emotional knee jerk reactive state,
[1:52:43] Speaker 3: or when we're listening to people and they're telling you
[1:52:46] Speaker 3: what to think and how to feel about something. I
[1:52:48] Speaker 3: hear this all the time, especially from internet influencers. You're
[1:52:52] Speaker 3: gonna be so upset by this, or this is going
[1:52:54] Speaker 3: to be exciting news, or this is what I'm about
[1:52:57] Speaker 3: to tell you is going to make you feel this
[1:52:58] Speaker 3: way when I big red flag to me, When personalities
[1:53:04] Speaker 3: do that, they're telling you how to think and feel
[1:53:06] Speaker 3: about something. So just notice these things, you know, notice
[1:53:10] Speaker 3: the neuro linguistic programming. Be very observant, be very careful,
[1:53:13] Speaker 3: with your emotions. Don't get so emotionally invested in random
[1:53:16] Speaker 3: ass people on the internet you've never met before, right,
[1:53:19] Speaker 3: and be able to separate intentions from information. So you
[1:53:25] Speaker 3: could have influencers on the internet that have the best heart,
[1:53:28] Speaker 3: the best integrity, super well meaning, they're just not very
[1:53:31] Speaker 3: well studied on something. So they're great people, but I
[1:53:35] Speaker 3: can't really trust their information because they don't know it
[1:53:37] Speaker 3: all that well. So, you know, trust needs context. Trust
[1:53:41] Speaker 3: is a very nuanced thing. I can trust CNN is
[1:53:44] Speaker 3: going to lie their faces off to me.
[1:53:46] Speaker 2: You know.
[1:53:47] Speaker 3: I can trust somebody's intention without trusting their information. That
[1:53:50] Speaker 3: doesn't mean I think they're a bad person. That they
[1:53:52] Speaker 3: just might not be very well read on this subject.
[1:53:54] Speaker 3: At the same time, I can trust somebody's information, but
[1:53:59] Speaker 3: I don't trust their heart. I think they're trying to
[1:54:02] Speaker 3: manipulate me in some way. But I'm still going to
[1:54:04] Speaker 3: pay attention to them because they can have some good
[1:54:06] Speaker 3: information nuggets and their stuff here and there. Right, I
[1:54:09] Speaker 3: think there's a lot of people like that in the
[1:54:10] Speaker 3: UFO movement. I don't really trust their integrity, but they
[1:54:15] Speaker 3: got a lot of good information, so I'll still listen
[1:54:16] Speaker 3: to them. I'll still follow them, I just won't promote
[1:54:18] Speaker 3: them and I won't you know, just be very careful
[1:54:21] Speaker 3: about where they might be trying to manipulate me in
[1:54:23] Speaker 3: their narratives. So all these sorts of things, you know,
[1:54:27] Speaker 3: all these different discernment honing techniques, and being very careful
[1:54:33] Speaker 3: with your emotions. That's what I would suggest to people,
[1:54:35] Speaker 3: sort of just getting into researching the real world.
[1:54:38] Speaker 1: I know, in great suggestions. Jordan, thank you so much.
[1:54:41] Speaker 1: This was great information. Before I let you go, let
[1:54:44] Speaker 1: the audience know if they'd like to find out more
[1:54:47] Speaker 1: about you, what's the best way to do so.
[1:54:50] Speaker 3: Thank you, sir. Jordansather dot com is my website and
[1:54:54] Speaker 3: you can find links to all my different platforms on there.
[1:54:58] Speaker 3: I've been censored a lot over the years. YouTube, Twitter, Instagram,
[1:55:04] Speaker 3: all of them can't count. But thankfully Elon let me
[1:55:07] Speaker 3: back on Twitter. So that's probably my main platform at
[1:55:09] Speaker 3: the moment for social media is Twitter at or x
[1:55:14] Speaker 3: whatever you wanna call it. At Jordan Underscore saith Underscore.
[1:55:18] Speaker 3: For videos, my main platform there is Rumble. Since YouTube
[1:55:21] Speaker 3: don't like me anymore, so at Jordan saith on Rumble.
[1:55:24] Speaker 3: But again you can go to my website jordansather dot
[1:55:26] Speaker 3: com and find links to wherever I'm at or not
[1:55:29] Speaker 3: at these days.
[1:55:30] Speaker 1: Excellent Jordan, Thank you again, love to talk again in
[1:55:33] Speaker 1: the future, much more we can discuss and until next time, everyone,
[1:55:36] Speaker 1: have an excellent evening. We'll we'll talk again to me.
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