# Jerry Marzinsky & Judy Gregerson | It's Not Schizophrenia, It's Demons, Spiritual Parasites

An episode of [Forbidden Knowledge News](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1470192028), 30 Jul 2026, 1 h 05 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/73249165/fknepisodesmarzinski_hd_720p_medium_fr30_29072026.mp3

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## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: I think it's just going to get weirder and weirder
[0:04] Speaker 1: and weirder, and finally it's going to be so weird
[0:08] Speaker 1: that people are going to have to talk about how
[0:10] Speaker 1: weird it is. Welcome back to Forbidden Knowledge News. I'm
[0:14] Speaker 1: your host Chris Matthew. Today, my guests are Judy Gregorson
[0:18] Speaker 1: and Jerry Marzenski. Be sure and check out our merch shop.
[0:21] Speaker 1: Beautiful shirts, We've got hoodies. We have movie shirts as well.
[0:26] Speaker 1: I'm wearing the Doors of Perception shirt right now. Just
[0:29] Speaker 1: use the link in the description to go check those out.
[0:32] Speaker 1: We are booking guests for September. If you have suggestions
[0:36] Speaker 1: or you'd like to be a guest, email me Forbidden
[0:38] Speaker 1: Knowledge neews at gmail dot com. Today, I want to
[0:41] Speaker 1: welcome back to the show Judy Gregorson and Jerry Marzinski.
[0:45] Speaker 1: Judy is a powerful voice for those battling mental illness,
[0:48] Speaker 1: spiritual oppression, and the search for true emotional freedom. Jerry
[0:53] Speaker 1: is a retired licensed psychotherapist now author with over thirty
[0:57] Speaker 1: five years experience working with and studying schizophrenia. Judy, Jerry,
[1:02] Speaker 1: welcome back. How y'all doing good. It's good to good, Doc,
[1:06] Speaker 1: It's great to have you back. Last time you were
[1:09] Speaker 1: both on, we shared a bit about Judy's journey healing
[1:12] Speaker 1: from schizophrenia, and Jerry shared his hands on work with
[1:16] Speaker 1: the criminally insane, which gives him a unique lens to
[1:20] Speaker 1: study what modern science knows as schizophrenia. And we're going
[1:25] Speaker 1: to learn more about specifically the voices that quote unquote
[1:29] Speaker 1: schizophrenics here, which are modern psychiatric and medical industries label
[1:35] Speaker 1: auditory hallucinations, and Jerry, you believe these to be more
[1:40] Speaker 1: along the lines of energetic intelligences or maybe what's some
[1:43] Speaker 1: called demons. And Judy, you've also got some additional information
[1:48] Speaker 1: about your journey, which we're going to get into as well.
[1:51] Speaker 1: Before we do, Jerry, remind the audience a little bit
[1:54] Speaker 1: about the work you're doing and where you're at with
[1:57] Speaker 1: your understanding of everything.
[2:00] Speaker 2: Well, I've been studying the voices schizophrenics here for close
[2:05] Speaker 2: to forty years, and for about three quarters of that time.
[2:11] Speaker 2: I started out like everybody else, came out of graduate
[2:14] Speaker 2: school believing what the psychiatric mafia said that they were
[2:18] Speaker 2: auditory hallucinations. And as time went on and I began
[2:25] Speaker 2: working with schizophrenic year after year after year, and then
[2:27] Speaker 2: asking them questions about what these voices were, what they said,
[2:31] Speaker 2: how they operated, what they did. Things gradually began to change.
[2:39] Speaker 2: They didn't they didn't fit the description of hallucinations. Hallucinations
[2:48] Speaker 2: are all over the place. You know, they're they're good,
[2:50] Speaker 2: they're bad, they're neutral, they're they're all over the place.
[2:53] Speaker 2: You can't predict them. The further I went into this,
[2:57] Speaker 2: the clear a set patterns began to run with regard
[3:03] Speaker 2: to how the voices operated and what they said. So
[3:07] Speaker 2: I started asking patients. When I first got to work
[3:12] Speaker 2: in one of the big biggest psychiatric hospitals on the planet,
[3:16] Speaker 2: Central State Hospital in Georgia. There were about ten thousand
[3:20] Speaker 2: patients there when I got there, and a good many
[3:25] Speaker 2: of them were paranoid schizophrenics, which is the most prevalent
[3:28] Speaker 2: category of schizophrenia, and they were hearing voices that were
[3:33] Speaker 2: sabotaging them, causing them trouble, and when they listened to them,
[3:39] Speaker 2: they got into a lot of trouble. They got into fights,
[3:41] Speaker 2: they sabotaged themselves, they self destructed, okay, And nobody at
[3:51] Speaker 2: that hospital had actually taken any time to talk to
[3:56] Speaker 2: these people about what these voices were in graduate school,
[4:00] Speaker 2: medical school. The psychiatric mafia had declared that these voices
[4:05] Speaker 2: were auditory hallucinations without any research whatsoever, only because that's
[4:11] Speaker 2: what they appeared to be. So as I started questioning
[4:19] Speaker 2: schizophrenics about what these things are telling you, I got
[4:24] Speaker 2: blocked by psychiatry when one of the patients went and
[4:29] Speaker 2: told a psychiatrist that I was asking him questions about
[4:34] Speaker 2: his voices that he didn't like ended upsetting. I ended
[4:38] Speaker 2: up in the front of the psychiatrists being ordered to
[4:41] Speaker 2: not ask any more questions about the voices. That they
[4:44] Speaker 2: were auditory hallucinations, that's what they were, and by asking
[4:49] Speaker 2: questions about them to these patients that I was upsetting
[4:52] Speaker 2: the patients and causing more damage. I knew that was
[4:57] Speaker 2: a crock of crap at the time. He said, but
[5:00] Speaker 2: you can't talk back to these people. They're just most
[5:04] Speaker 2: of them are just very arrogant. So I went on
[5:10] Speaker 2: kind of under the radar asking these people questions about
[5:17] Speaker 2: the voices. I had to be very careful, but I
[5:22] Speaker 2: really couldn't get into it until I left there. Finished,
[5:27] Speaker 2: went through the PhD program for a couple of years,
[5:31] Speaker 2: and then took a job with the Arizona state prison
[5:35] Speaker 2: in the psychology department. Okay. There they were set up
[5:40] Speaker 2: for violence. Okay, so if a psychiatric patient got violent,
[5:45] Speaker 2: unlike at the state hospital, they had all the resources
[5:48] Speaker 2: they needed to deal with that patient. And so they
[5:51] Speaker 2: weren't afraid of people getting violent because it happened. I mean,
[5:54] Speaker 2: it was almost a daily occurrence. So what I had
[5:58] Speaker 2: was a group of schizophrenic that I had kind of
[6:05] Speaker 2: told them, Hey, I'll do everything I can to help
[6:07] Speaker 2: you with with your schizophrenia. In return, what I want
[6:12] Speaker 2: you to do is tell me what these voices are
[6:14] Speaker 2: telling you in our sessions in live, you know, immediately
[6:21] Speaker 2: and live I mean, so they weren't they were as
[6:27] Speaker 2: they appeared, okay. And after after they're telling me all
[6:34] Speaker 2: these questions and me asking them thousands of questions over
[6:37] Speaker 2: over a serial in many years, patterns started to appear
[6:44] Speaker 2: with regard to these voices. Now, if they were hallucinations,
[6:47] Speaker 2: there wouldn't be any patterns. And these patterns were consistent
[6:53] Speaker 2: among hundreds of schizophrenics. They were all telling me. The
[6:57] Speaker 2: voices were doing the same things, saying the same kind
[6:59] Speaker 2: of things. One of the first patterns that appeared was
[7:03] Speaker 2: that they were consistently negative. That was the most common
[7:07] Speaker 2: consistent trained. They're constantly negative, derogatory, insulting, abusive, destruction, and destructive.
[7:15] Speaker 2: You know, they may start off by telling the guy, hey,
[7:18] Speaker 2: we can help you. We're positive spirits. They sometimes know
[7:24] Speaker 2: things that the patient himself doesn't even know, and once
[7:30] Speaker 2: they get the victim's attention, sink their claws into them.
[7:35] Speaker 2: Then they turn on them and it becomes a very
[7:38] Speaker 2: negative experience. But consistently, these voices are telling these patients
[7:43] Speaker 2: you're ugly, you're stupid, nobody likes you, you're retarded. People
[7:51] Speaker 2: are just faking like they're your friends. You know, people
[7:55] Speaker 2: are the cops are out to get you. Somebody's going
[7:58] Speaker 2: to murder you. It's always distantly negative, stuff like you're worthless,
[8:03] Speaker 2: you're crazy, you know whatever. I mean. It was consistently negative.
[8:10] Speaker 2: And one of the first questions I had was what
[8:13] Speaker 2: holds it on a consistently negative track? Why aren't these
[8:19] Speaker 2: things random like regular hallucinations. They weren't. Something was holding
[8:26] Speaker 2: them on that negative track, and that was consistent and
[8:32] Speaker 2: it still is today, you know.
[8:34] Speaker 3: Now.
[8:35] Speaker 2: They were also anti religious, which kind of surprised me.
[8:39] Speaker 2: You know, I had one patient when I was working
[8:42] Speaker 2: at the mental hospital. He came to me one day
[8:45] Speaker 2: and he said, you know, the voices were attacking me
[8:48] Speaker 2: last night and I just kept repeating the twenty third psalm.
[8:51] Speaker 2: He said they reacted like worms thrown on a hot
[8:53] Speaker 2: frying pan. I've found that very interesting, right, So I
[8:59] Speaker 2: started passing out the twenty third Psalm to other schizophrenic
[9:03] Speaker 2: patients and the responses were all very negative by the voices.
[9:09] Speaker 2: The voices would tell them that's a bunch of crap.
[9:12] Speaker 2: Stop this stuff. They would end up forgetting to read
[9:17] Speaker 2: the psalm. When the voices came, they would lose the
[9:20] Speaker 2: twenty third psalm. By the time they got back, they
[9:23] Speaker 2: had either lost it or forgot to use it. But
[9:25] Speaker 2: there was a lot of resistance to it, and the
[9:27] Speaker 2: ones who did stick with it reported that the voices
[9:31] Speaker 2: hated it. They rebelled against it. They made they gave
[9:35] Speaker 2: them headaches. And it wasn't just a twenty third psalm.
[9:39] Speaker 2: It was the Lord's Prayer and the number of other prayers.
[9:43] Speaker 2: They didn't want them reading the Bible, they didn't want
[9:47] Speaker 2: them going to church. And I'm like, what kind of
[9:50] Speaker 2: hallucination would do that, you know? And it was consistent,
[9:53] Speaker 2: It was totally consistent that these things were anti religious, antichrist.
[9:58] Speaker 2: And it wasn't just with Christianity. I mean, it was
[10:02] Speaker 2: with any any positive religion, you know, Hinduism, Christian science,
[10:14] Speaker 2: you know, the Mormons. I mean, they didn't want any
[10:19] Speaker 2: part of any of that. Yeah, And I found that.
[10:23] Speaker 2: I found that it's very odd. So I started asking
[10:26] Speaker 2: him what happened when they went to church. And these
[10:29] Speaker 2: were all people who heard voices. There were three categories
[10:33] Speaker 2: they broke into. If the voices were very weak when
[10:36] Speaker 2: they went to a church, the voices would shut up,
[10:39] Speaker 2: they would just go quiet. If they were of moderate strength,
[10:45] Speaker 2: they would get louder and stronger, and they would try
[10:48] Speaker 2: to block the patient from listening to what the preacher
[10:51] Speaker 2: had to say. They would say stuff like, he's stupid,
[10:55] Speaker 2: look at this crap. Who's going to believe this stuff?
[10:58] Speaker 2: You know, Jesus couldn't even save himself, What makes you
[11:02] Speaker 2: think he's going to save you. It was just interfering
[11:06] Speaker 2: with what the preacher was saying, so the person couldn't
[11:10] Speaker 2: listen to it. If the voices were very strong, they
[11:14] Speaker 2: would drive them out of the church. These people would
[11:17] Speaker 2: get up and run out of the church, just absolutely
[11:21] Speaker 2: run out of the church. They look like crazy people
[11:23] Speaker 2: getting up and just running down the aisle and out
[11:27] Speaker 2: of the church. Right, So that was another consistent thing.
[11:32] Speaker 2: What kind of hallucination would consistently be anti religious?
[11:38] Speaker 1: Now, when you say consistent, do you mean across the board?
[11:41] Speaker 1: Even outside of the prison system. Every person you meet
[11:45] Speaker 1: with schizophrenia has negative voices.
[11:48] Speaker 2: Yes, they're huh. They're negative for one reason. They are
[11:56] Speaker 2: energetic parasites. Every schizophrenic who gets it attacked by the
[12:00] Speaker 2: voices will find that they have a massive loss of energy.
[12:07] Speaker 2: They're completely wiped out. Now, I've remember one schizophrenic who
[12:13] Speaker 2: I had an appointment with one day. He drug into
[12:15] Speaker 2: the office. He said, you know, I couldn't sleep all night.
[12:18] Speaker 2: The voices were attacking me. He said, I feel like
[12:22] Speaker 2: I've been digging ditches and under the hot sun all day.
[12:25] Speaker 2: Completely wiped out, no energy. Okay, So these things feed
[12:32] Speaker 2: off of the negative energy they generate. So that's why
[12:37] Speaker 2: they're consistently negative. They want to produce or induce negative
[12:44] Speaker 2: thought they which generates negative emotion, and then they feed
[12:49] Speaker 2: off of that. Interesting, so they are parasites now.
[12:54] Speaker 1: Jerry let me ask you, have you noticed any common
[12:58] Speaker 1: causes anything that people interact with are something that might
[13:04] Speaker 1: initiate this more commonly that you've noticed.
[13:08] Speaker 2: Yes, there's several things, you know, consistently associated with schizophrenia.
[13:17] Speaker 2: There is usually horrendous physical, emotional, or sexual abuse. These
[13:23] Speaker 2: people are, these people are wounded. Meth damphetamine opens up
[13:28] Speaker 2: the door like, come on and get me. It's like
[13:31] Speaker 2: a it's like an invitation for these things to enter
[13:35] Speaker 2: m and it's really the end the that the prisoners
[13:41] Speaker 2: called it the devil's drug. So I've talked to a
[13:45] Speaker 2: number of prisoners who when they ran out of math,
[13:49] Speaker 2: the voices would tell them where to be and when
[13:52] Speaker 2: to be there, and some stranger would walk up with
[13:55] Speaker 2: the meth say hey, you want some stuff?
[13:58] Speaker 3: What you know?
[13:59] Speaker 2: Yeah, that happened over and over and over again. They
[14:04] Speaker 2: would see these entities called the shadow people were three
[14:08] Speaker 2: dimensional shadows that would appear to them, and they never spoke,
[14:16] Speaker 2: hardly ever spoke. I only know of one that did,
[14:20] Speaker 2: and that story was chilling. But they would They would
[14:24] Speaker 2: either have red or lime green eyes if they had
[14:28] Speaker 2: if they could see the eyes at all, which aren't
[14:30] Speaker 2: good colors for eyes. So most of the time they
[14:35] Speaker 2: were just three dimensional humanoid shaped shadows that would appear
[14:39] Speaker 2: in the bedroom. They would be darker than the rest
[14:41] Speaker 2: of the bedroom or living room, They could walk through walls,
[14:45] Speaker 2: they would peer at the appear at the base of
[14:47] Speaker 2: the bed, and they would just scare these people half
[14:49] Speaker 2: to death. They never said anything, but just the appearance.
[14:54] Speaker 2: You can imagine what it would look like if you
[14:55] Speaker 2: had a three dimensional black shadow appear in the middle
[14:59] Speaker 2: of the night looking at you with lime green eyes.
[15:03] Speaker 3: You know.
[15:03] Speaker 2: They would never talk, except in one case. There was
[15:08] Speaker 2: one guy when I was working. I was working doing
[15:14] Speaker 2: psychiatric evaluations in emergency rooms in hospitals around Tucson, and
[15:26] Speaker 2: one night, and this was Christmas Eve, a guy came in.
[15:30] Speaker 2: It was pretty quiet night except for him. He comes in.
[15:33] Speaker 2: He's shaking like a leaf, you know, just just trembling
[15:37] Speaker 2: and he couldn't stop. So when it came time to
[15:41] Speaker 2: do his evaluation, I brought him in and he's shaking
[15:43] Speaker 2: like a leaf, and I said, what's going on. He says, well,
[15:48] Speaker 2: I'm hearing voices. And he told me he was using myth.
[15:53] Speaker 2: He was injecting myth for ten years, and that got
[15:56] Speaker 2: my attention up because he should have been dead five
[15:59] Speaker 2: years ago. He shouldn't still be alive. So I went,
[16:03] Speaker 2: there's there's something what's going on with this guy? There's
[16:05] Speaker 2: something different about him. He was hearing voices, and I
[16:11] Speaker 2: started asking him about the shadow people. Okay, Now I
[16:16] Speaker 2: usually didn't give the eye information out to them. I
[16:21] Speaker 2: would just ask them. So i'd ask him, do you
[16:25] Speaker 2: see the shadow people? And he goes, yeah, I see
[16:27] Speaker 2: them all the time. And I said, what color are
[16:30] Speaker 2: their eyes? He told me the ones he saw were
[16:33] Speaker 2: lime green m And I was just thinking, uh, you know,
[16:37] Speaker 2: just I want this guy has been with Meth so long.
[16:40] Speaker 2: I'm just I'll just ask him if he ever heard
[16:42] Speaker 2: him talk. I said, did they ever speak to you?
[16:45] Speaker 2: And he said, yeah, they did, and I said, uh,
[16:52] Speaker 2: what did they tell you? And all of a sudden,
[16:58] Speaker 2: he stopped, he stopped shaking, he stopped quivering, and he
[17:04] Speaker 2: went dark still, and his eyes changed black. And I
[17:09] Speaker 2: was looking at those eyes and they weren't the eyes
[17:12] Speaker 2: of the guy I was looking looking at just a
[17:14] Speaker 2: few moments before. Wow, And the intense hatred that came
[17:20] Speaker 2: out of those eyes was nothing. I've like, no hatred.
[17:24] Speaker 2: I've ever experienced in my entire life. I mean, it
[17:28] Speaker 2: was just such an intense cold hatred that it was
[17:33] Speaker 2: just chilling, you know. And one thing I learned you
[17:38] Speaker 2: can't do with these guys is you can't break the gaze.
[17:40] Speaker 3: You can't.
[17:41] Speaker 2: You have to keep keep the contact up. You can't
[17:45] Speaker 2: back away and run because then they got you.
[17:48] Speaker 3: All right.
[17:49] Speaker 2: So here I am staring at this thing, and it's
[17:52] Speaker 2: just it was chilling. It was absolutely chilling, and I'm like,
[17:55] Speaker 2: how long is this going to go on? And then
[17:58] Speaker 2: all of a sudden, boom, it was gone, and he
[18:01] Speaker 2: stopped shaking, his eyes returned to normal, and I'm like,
[18:06] Speaker 2: holy now now, And I asked him again, what did
[18:11] Speaker 2: they tell you? And he said, they told me to
[18:16] Speaker 2: go out to the road and jump in front of
[18:18] Speaker 2: a car. And said, well, what'd you do? He said,
[18:21] Speaker 2: I went out to the road and I jumped in
[18:23] Speaker 2: front of a car. They told me I wouldn't get hurt.
[18:25] Speaker 2: So he jumped in front of a car. He got hit,
[18:27] Speaker 2: knocked off to the side of the road. He said.
[18:30] Speaker 2: When he woke up, he was circled by these shadow people.
[18:34] Speaker 2: They were looking down at him and they told him
[18:36] Speaker 2: get up you're not hurt. And he said he got
[18:39] Speaker 2: up and he wasn't hurt.
[18:41] Speaker 1: Wow.
[18:42] Speaker 2: And I said, well what happened? Then he said, well,
[18:46] Speaker 2: they told me to jump in front of another car
[18:48] Speaker 2: I wouldn't get hurt. And he said he jumped in
[18:49] Speaker 2: front of another one and he when he came around,
[18:53] Speaker 2: he wasn't hurt. So I'm like, you know, like this
[18:58] Speaker 2: is twilight zone, dudude. And so what was the other question?
[19:05] Speaker 2: I asked him that there was another question I asked him,
[19:13] Speaker 2: and then that that that eye, the eyes came back again,
[19:17] Speaker 2: those dark eyes, you know, when I went to ask
[19:19] Speaker 2: this other question, and his eyes were just black, and
[19:22] Speaker 2: it was that same hatred. It was like a feeling
[19:25] Speaker 2: like I'd rather slit your gut open and spill him
[19:28] Speaker 2: all over this room then you know, say another word
[19:32] Speaker 2: to you. Yeah, And that went on for like it
[19:37] Speaker 2: must have been like twenty or thirty seconds, but it
[19:40] Speaker 2: felt like an eternity, you know. It was that same
[19:43] Speaker 2: cold hatred that I'd never experienced anything like it, you know,
[19:48] Speaker 2: And then he came back to the way. He was
[19:51] Speaker 2: shaking and quivering again, and then finally I went, I'm
[19:54] Speaker 2: not going to ask him anything.
[19:55] Speaker 3: Else.
[19:56] Speaker 2: You know, I'm out of here. I'm gonna I'll write
[19:58] Speaker 2: him up. We'll admit it, because he's he's out of it.
[20:01] Speaker 2: This guy's he's out of it. He's controlled by something else.
[20:04] Speaker 1: Wow.
[20:05] Speaker 2: And so I let him go. And then the psychiatric
[20:08] Speaker 2: nurse came back into my office and said, I can't
[20:13] Speaker 2: deal with this guy. What'd you get out of him?
[20:14] Speaker 2: I'll write my report based on yours.
[20:17] Speaker 3: M So.
[20:20] Speaker 2: This was the first time I ever heard anybody report
[20:23] Speaker 2: that the Shadow people spoke.
[20:26] Speaker 3: Okay, but.
[20:30] Speaker 2: You know, with regard to the myth, you were asking
[20:32] Speaker 2: what triggers these things? You know, when they start using myth,
[20:37] Speaker 2: they feel great, you know, like Superman Supercharged. You know,
[20:41] Speaker 2: everything's gone, they got tons of energy, they don't know
[20:44] Speaker 2: what to do with it all. They're feeling great like Superman,
[20:48] Speaker 2: and you know, they keep using it because it feels great,
[20:53] Speaker 2: and then one day they hear the voices, you know,
[20:58] Speaker 2: and they go, oh, well, that's just loose nations. When
[21:02] Speaker 2: you know, when I come down, the voices will disappear,
[21:05] Speaker 2: and they do, so they keep using they hear the
[21:08] Speaker 2: voices again. They're now convinced that these things are hallucinations.
[21:12] Speaker 2: And when they come down, they'll go away, so there's
[21:16] Speaker 2: nothing to worry about. Yeah, right, So that may happen,
[21:21] Speaker 2: you know, twenty five, thirty, fifty times, one hundred times,
[21:24] Speaker 2: and then one day those voices don't go away and
[21:29] Speaker 2: they're just as psychotic and schizophrenic as anybody on the
[21:34] Speaker 2: psych ward and that they will hear those voices for
[21:37] Speaker 2: the rest of their lives. Methods are very dangerous drug
[21:43] Speaker 2: The prison is full of people who started off like that,
[21:47] Speaker 2: and a number of them started off with the psychiatrists
[21:51] Speaker 2: diagnosing them ADHD and then putting them on adderall or
[21:56] Speaker 2: adoraks or writtling, which are all amphetamines. Yeah, that's a
[22:02] Speaker 2: good psychiatric mafia for you.
[22:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's absolutely insane. Well, I guess to start an
[22:09] Speaker 1: introduction into the healing modalities that you're currently using to
[22:14] Speaker 1: help people, we can get to Judy's story a bit
[22:18] Speaker 1: and some updates from her. Judy, introduce yourself a little
[22:22] Speaker 1: bit and tell us about your story and what brought
[22:26] Speaker 1: you to where you're at now.
[22:28] Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm Judy Gregorson. I found Jerry at one
[22:33] Speaker 3: point on the Internet and told him that I wanted
[22:36] Speaker 3: to tell its story. I was by notes shrenic. When
[22:39] Speaker 3: I was nineteen. It happened to me very quickly. I
[22:44] Speaker 3: had a run up several years of a lot of trauma,
[22:48] Speaker 3: a lot of pain, a couple of suicide attempts, and
[22:52] Speaker 3: then one night I was smoking pot and I'd done
[22:55] Speaker 3: previous to that, a lot of bells did. And so
[22:58] Speaker 3: one night I was smoking pot and in my mind
[23:01] Speaker 3: I saw a portal. It was a big door, and
[23:04] Speaker 3: it was calling to me. So in my mind I
[23:07] Speaker 3: went through that door and shut it behind me. And
[23:09] Speaker 3: in that room or whatever it was, it was kind
[23:12] Speaker 3: of a kind of a medium gray, almost like a fog.
[23:17] Speaker 3: There was nothing there, but it's medium and gray, and
[23:19] Speaker 3: I thought, okay, there's nothing here. I turned to get out,
[23:21] Speaker 3: and when I tried to open the door, I couldn't
[23:23] Speaker 3: get out. And my mind had really entered another, I think,
[23:28] Speaker 3: another dimension. And that for me is when the voices started,
[23:34] Speaker 3: and they started exactly as Jerry explains. You're no good,
[23:38] Speaker 3: nobody loved you, You're crazy. The big thing with me
[23:43] Speaker 3: was that I was crazy because my mother had a
[23:45] Speaker 3: breakdown when I was thirteen, and I feared that more
[23:49] Speaker 3: than anything in the world, having a breakdown and she'd
[23:51] Speaker 3: gone into a psych hospital, so that for me was
[23:55] Speaker 3: a real weak point, and they played on that and
[23:57] Speaker 3: they told me that I was crazy, that I was
[23:59] Speaker 3: going good, that I would never get out. I was
[24:02] Speaker 3: trapped forever. I had four voices, three male, one female,
[24:07] Speaker 3: kind of lived in the four corners of my head inside.
[24:10] Speaker 3: They were inside, they went outside, and I thought that
[24:14] Speaker 3: my mind had shattered and I now had multiple personalities.
[24:18] Speaker 3: But the psychiatrist diagnosed me as paranoid schizophrenic and put
[24:25] Speaker 3: me on drugs, and then I started this long what
[24:29] Speaker 3: I called the Doldrums, is about three and a half
[24:33] Speaker 3: four years of living with the drugs, living with the voices,
[24:37] Speaker 3: the voices becoming more more flowers on the drugs, the
[24:41] Speaker 3: more numb I got more it became like my thoughts.
[24:45] Speaker 3: But there were attacks would come, and like Gerry talks about,
[24:47] Speaker 3: when the attacks come, they do they drain you, absolutely
[24:51] Speaker 3: suck everything out of you. And a part of that,
[24:54] Speaker 3: I think, is that you're fighting to survive. I was
[24:58] Speaker 3: always fighting to not go to next level. I could.
[25:01] Speaker 3: I could see myself on the edge of a cliff,
[25:03] Speaker 3: and I could look down and see there were lower
[25:05] Speaker 3: levels of schizophrenia that it could get worse, and so
[25:10] Speaker 3: I was fighting always to stay at what level.
[25:12] Speaker 2: I was, Judy, What did you think those voices were
[25:15] Speaker 2: when they first started, I didn't.
[25:20] Speaker 3: Know what they were. I I mean, they began to
[25:23] Speaker 3: torment me, and they would talk to each other. One
[25:26] Speaker 3: would say, oh, look, she's so crazy, and the other
[25:29] Speaker 3: one would say, oh, don't be hard on her, she's
[25:31] Speaker 3: just screwed up. The other one would say, no, she's crazy.
[25:36] Speaker 3: They'd alarague over how crazy I was my head. So
[25:39] Speaker 3: I thought that this breakdown, because he told me I
[25:44] Speaker 3: had a complete psychotic breakdown. Whatever that meant, I don't
[25:47] Speaker 3: know what that minute, but explained it apparently. So I
[25:52] Speaker 3: figured my mind had chattered, had gone into four pieces,
[25:55] Speaker 3: and these four pieces of myself were talking to me.
[25:59] Speaker 3: I had no idea that it was spirits or negative
[26:03] Speaker 3: entities or demons.
[26:05] Speaker 2: And that's what they want the victim to believe that
[26:07] Speaker 2: those voices are them, that they belong to them, and
[26:12] Speaker 2: that now they are them.
[26:16] Speaker 3: Yeah, and I work now with a lot of schizophrenics.
[26:20] Speaker 3: I do deliverance. I work with schizophrenics. I see the
[26:23] Speaker 3: patterns that Garry talks about over and over what I
[26:29] Speaker 3: call chaos mind people whose mind they come in, their
[26:32] Speaker 3: minds are so they've got the voices, but not only
[26:35] Speaker 3: the voices. They got all this noise, all this confusion.
[26:37] Speaker 3: There's always all this confusion that goes with it. And
[26:42] Speaker 3: I see people like Harry talks about who we're seeing things.
[26:45] Speaker 3: I have one client who sees shadow people, he sees lights,
[26:51] Speaker 3: he sees creatures, which he doesn't explain what they are.
[26:56] Speaker 3: I've had clients who see organs will come into their
[26:59] Speaker 3: bedrooms night and talk to them wow and tell them things.
[27:03] Speaker 3: I have one client who had these orbs and she
[27:06] Speaker 3: sent me videos of it. They'd come into her room
[27:08] Speaker 3: at night, they were telling her things, and they were
[27:09] Speaker 3: telling her that her husband was cheating on her and
[27:12] Speaker 3: where he was, and she checked on it and it
[27:14] Speaker 3: was true. So she began to create a relationship with
[27:20] Speaker 3: this because she thought it was working for her good.
[27:24] Speaker 3: But as she began to create a relationship with it,
[27:27] Speaker 3: she found herself, like Jerry said, boom, one day, you're schizophrenic.
[27:32] Speaker 3: So I was in that world for a long time.
[27:35] Speaker 3: There was no there was no help. You know, the
[27:39] Speaker 3: doctors put young drugs and you're told that that's it.
[27:43] Speaker 3: That's what your life is going to be. And I
[27:46] Speaker 3: lived my college years through that. Finally finally flunked out
[27:49] Speaker 3: of college, finally got some help from a therapist who
[27:53] Speaker 3: was just a young guy out of college. Will helped
[27:55] Speaker 3: me deal with what Darry was talking about. They all
[27:58] Speaker 3: come with trauma, sexual trauma, rejection, trauma, childhood trauma, great trauma.
[28:06] Speaker 3: It seems that they all have some of that. And
[28:10] Speaker 3: I found a guy who was willing to help me
[28:14] Speaker 3: bring that up to the surface and find healing. And
[28:17] Speaker 3: as I did that, the voices got weaker and weaker,
[28:21] Speaker 3: and the attacks got fewer and fewer, and eventually I
[28:24] Speaker 3: was able to get free when I met a woman
[28:30] Speaker 3: from Philadelphia evangelists who told me they were demons, and
[28:33] Speaker 3: she told me that I could tell them to go
[28:35] Speaker 3: in the name of Jesus Christ. So I began to
[28:37] Speaker 3: do that, and they left, and then they'd come back,
[28:40] Speaker 3: and then I tell them to go, and they would leave,
[28:42] Speaker 3: and then they'd come back and test me. And then
[28:44] Speaker 3: I told them to go, and they'd leave, and then
[28:46] Speaker 3: they come back and test me, and then eventually they
[28:49] Speaker 3: gave up. It was over. But the interesting thing to
[28:53] Speaker 3: me was that the first time that I told them
[28:55] Speaker 3: to go, and they left, and they took that whole
[28:59] Speaker 3: spiritual de mention with them that they'd bring with them
[29:04] Speaker 3: when they were gone. That left, and my mind was
[29:06] Speaker 3: perfectly normal. And that shocked me because I was They
[29:11] Speaker 3: had convinced me that I was crazy. And when I realized, wow,
[29:14] Speaker 3: I feel like I did when I was eighteen. I
[29:16] Speaker 3: feel normal.
[29:17] Speaker 1: Along with the voices came this strange feeling accompanying the
[29:22] Speaker 1: voices constantly. Is that what you're saying?
[29:26] Speaker 3: There was? Yeah, it's hard to explain. I explained it
[29:30] Speaker 3: that it was like my mind was in one dimension
[29:34] Speaker 3: and my body was in this world, but my mind
[29:36] Speaker 3: had gone to another dimension. And in that dimension it
[29:40] Speaker 3: was void of anything good. There was no good feeling,
[29:43] Speaker 3: there was no love, there was no peace. It was torment.
[29:46] Speaker 3: Twenty four hours a day, day night you woke up
[29:49] Speaker 3: the middle night, the dormant started. There was chaos. I
[29:52] Speaker 3: meet people now that come to me in the dombinay
[29:54] Speaker 3: of chaos brain, and I understand that because their mind
[29:57] Speaker 3: is in chaos. There's the voices, there's the fighting the voices,
[30:01] Speaker 3: and the arguing with the voices. Although some people make
[30:03] Speaker 3: relationships with them. They think that's the tumble and it
[30:07] Speaker 3: ends up to the to do that.
[30:09] Speaker 2: And they're going to go back to something you said
[30:12] Speaker 2: just a minute ago, because it's a it's very important.
[30:15] Speaker 2: Is when you you said, when the voices disappeared, your
[30:18] Speaker 2: mind turned back to normal.
[30:21] Speaker 3: Okay.
[30:22] Speaker 2: What that is is that the voices are the cause.
[30:27] Speaker 2: I've seen that over and over again. You know the
[30:29] Speaker 2: psychiatric mafius says, oh, yeah, the mothers that cause schizophrenia.
[30:33] Speaker 2: They started off with that, then they went to the
[30:37] Speaker 2: jenine jeans, the genes caused schizophrenia. The latest lie they
[30:41] Speaker 2: come up with is there's a biochemical imbalance of the brain. No,
[30:46] Speaker 2: it's the voices. If you can get rid of the
[30:48] Speaker 2: voices by any means, the person will return back to normal.
[30:53] Speaker 2: It's the voices that cause schizophrenia. The battle is with
[30:57] Speaker 2: the voices.
[30:59] Speaker 3: Yeah. And the interesting thing is that when the voices
[31:02] Speaker 3: are gone. I had spent nearly four years with my
[31:05] Speaker 3: mind and chaos, and I see that with the people
[31:08] Speaker 3: I work with. When you get read of the voices,
[31:12] Speaker 3: that quietness and that piece feels overwhelming to them. It
[31:17] Speaker 3: almost feels like emptiness. I have one one client who
[31:19] Speaker 3: told me for a month. I didn't know what to
[31:21] Speaker 3: do because I was so quiet, He goes. It scared
[31:25] Speaker 3: me because my mind had not been quiet twenty years.
[31:27] Speaker 3: All I'd done its fight, he says. Then I walk
[31:29] Speaker 3: up one day and I realized, oh, I could go
[31:32] Speaker 3: play with my kid. I don't have to center everything
[31:34] Speaker 3: on my head and my thoughts, because as a schizophrenic,
[31:38] Speaker 3: you're constantly in its battle to hold some ground, or
[31:43] Speaker 3: to hold yourself, to not completely lose everything that des
[31:48] Speaker 3: you because they take your identity, they tell you who
[31:52] Speaker 3: you are. You are no good, you have no future,
[31:55] Speaker 3: You'll never get free, You're nobody, nobody loves you, nobody
[31:59] Speaker 3: wants you. Your life is over. You're gonna end up dead,
[32:03] Speaker 3: you know. So you hear that for so long, So
[32:05] Speaker 3: when those voices are gone, it's like you've then got
[32:08] Speaker 3: to I had to. I spent years rebuilding my mind,
[32:12] Speaker 3: getting rid of the negative thoughts that were not now
[32:16] Speaker 3: coming into my head. But the beliefs, I'll say more
[32:18] Speaker 3: than the believer. I began to believe everything they told me.
[32:22] Speaker 3: So when the voices were gone, I had to realize
[32:25] Speaker 3: I'm not bad. That was like a shock too. I'm
[32:28] Speaker 3: not a bad person. Now. I've been told that and
[32:31] Speaker 3: pounded with that for so long.
[32:33] Speaker 2: So I had one patient when we got rid of
[32:36] Speaker 2: the voices, he almost fell out of his chair and
[32:39] Speaker 2: he said, the silence is deafening.
[32:42] Speaker 3: Oh, it's scary, crazy because they don't know what to
[32:45] Speaker 3: do with silence. And you know the thing that I
[32:51] Speaker 3: think is scary for schiptophonic, especially the ones that create
[32:54] Speaker 3: a relationship with these things, because they get into conversations
[32:59] Speaker 3: with them, they begin to believe them. I've got one
[33:02] Speaker 3: client who actually told me of the day that that
[33:06] Speaker 3: his that his demon told him that they made themselves
[33:11] Speaker 3: invisible so I couldn't see them. And I said, I
[33:13] Speaker 3: don't need to see them. I know they're there. I said,
[33:17] Speaker 3: I don't need to hear them. I've heard them and
[33:18] Speaker 3: they talked to me. They'll either talk to me telepathically
[33:21] Speaker 3: or they'll talk through a person. I said, I don't
[33:25] Speaker 3: need to hear them see them. I know they're there.
[33:27] Speaker 3: And it doesn't it doesn't matter if I can see
[33:29] Speaker 3: them or hear them. I can still get rid of them.
[33:33] Speaker 3: Them to go, and they have to go, and I've
[33:36] Speaker 3: had to argue with them. I've had demons tell me,
[33:38] Speaker 3: this one belongs to me. You can't have her, and
[33:41] Speaker 3: I say, well, that's great, now get out Jesus name,
[33:44] Speaker 3: get out of here. And they go, but they'll argue
[33:46] Speaker 3: with you, some of them on the way out.
[33:49] Speaker 1: Due to your experience was primarily auditory. Did you have
[33:53] Speaker 1: any visual events occur?
[33:58] Speaker 3: No, but I had a lot of lost time, Okay,
[34:03] Speaker 3: periods of time where I didn't know where I'd been.
[34:06] Speaker 3: I had times when I'd look in the mirror and
[34:09] Speaker 3: I didn't know who I was. I kind of thought
[34:11] Speaker 3: that I looked familiar. I wasn't sure that I was me.
[34:15] Speaker 3: And Jerry would understand that more than I do. Maybe
[34:18] Speaker 3: that's dissociation. I had a lot of that going on
[34:22] Speaker 3: in between all this. Maybe that was a coping mechanism. No,
[34:27] Speaker 3: my doctor never dealt with that, never talked about that, Jerry.
[34:32] Speaker 1: Has this ever led to what's considered full on possession
[34:37] Speaker 1: in a person.
[34:38] Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen that a handful of times, not often.
[34:41] Speaker 3: So.
[34:41] Speaker 2: What Judy is describing is they were moving to try
[34:45] Speaker 2: to take complete control of her, which is what they do.
[34:50] Speaker 2: You know, once they take control, then the person you
[34:53] Speaker 2: know becomes of you know, one of these guys that
[34:57] Speaker 2: goes out and kills a whole bunch of people, and
[34:59] Speaker 2: just a lot of people indiscriminately. You know, they hate
[35:03] Speaker 2: the human race. You know, they want to break up families,
[35:07] Speaker 2: that want to break up marriages. They want control, you know,
[35:11] Speaker 2: And you know there's fifty thousand people in the United
[35:15] Speaker 2: States kill themselves every year. You know, where do the
[35:19] Speaker 2: thoughts come from?
[35:21] Speaker 1: Right?
[35:21] Speaker 2: For them to kill themselves? That's against every instinct a
[35:25] Speaker 2: human being has. And a great number of them are
[35:28] Speaker 2: on any psychotic and any depressant medications. So that tells
[35:33] Speaker 2: you how effective psychiatry is. None of those drugs that
[35:37] Speaker 2: they're pumping into anybody cures anything. They merely dumb down
[35:42] Speaker 2: the symptoms. And unless they understand that the cause of
[35:47] Speaker 2: schizophrenia is not some made up lie by Eli Lilly
[35:52] Speaker 2: saying that, you know, the chemicals in the brain are
[35:56] Speaker 2: out of control or imbalanced. You know, anybody who goes
[36:01] Speaker 2: to a psychiatrist is going to come out with some
[36:03] Speaker 2: kind of medication. And you watch what they do with schizophrenics.
[36:07] Speaker 2: I've been with my patients a bunch of times.
[36:09] Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about what they're giving them.
[36:11] Speaker 1: As far as drugs.
[36:13] Speaker 2: They've given them a whole series of antipsychotic benzodiazepines, which
[36:19] Speaker 2: are young major tranquilizers. But you look what they do
[36:22] Speaker 2: when they go in there. They will tell you ask them, hey,
[36:25] Speaker 2: what causes schizophrenic they will tell you the line that
[36:28] Speaker 2: they were brainwashed with in medical school. Oh, it's a
[36:31] Speaker 2: chemical and balance of the brain. But then you watch
[36:33] Speaker 2: what they do. They'll ask the guy a handful of questions, Oh,
[36:37] Speaker 2: you're hearing voices, or you're depressed. Can you sleep at night? Da?
[36:40] Speaker 2: Da da? And then they right away they'll prescribe some
[36:44] Speaker 2: toxic drug. So if it were an actual chemical and
[36:49] Speaker 2: balance of the brain, you might want to think that
[36:52] Speaker 2: they would, you know, give some blood test or some
[36:56] Speaker 2: kind of EEG or some kind of objective test to
[37:00] Speaker 2: find out which drugs in the which chemicals in the
[37:03] Speaker 2: brain were out of balance, or by how much. You
[37:06] Speaker 2: won't see it. It doesn't exist. There is no test
[37:10] Speaker 2: for a chemical imbalance of the brain. That's a complete
[37:14] Speaker 2: lie made up by Eli Lilly in the sixties when
[37:16] Speaker 2: they came out with prozac to try to explain why
[37:19] Speaker 2: that that crap works. And it doesn't work that well,
[37:22] Speaker 2: if at all, right, But the brain.
[37:26] Speaker 3: Was broken, there was a chemical imbalance. It's not possible
[37:29] Speaker 3: that when you get rid of the spirit that they
[37:32] Speaker 3: would bring their back to normal. Chemical balances just don't
[37:38] Speaker 3: go back like that. They just don't.
[37:41] Speaker 2: They They have no test for it whatsoever. There is
[37:45] Speaker 2: no objective test for either schizophrenic or any other mental illness.
[37:52] Speaker 2: There's no objective test for even one of the almost
[37:54] Speaker 2: three hundred psychiatric diagnosies that they have in their DSM,
[37:59] Speaker 2: their psychic Bible.
[38:01] Speaker 3: All of those.
[38:03] Speaker 2: Illnesses are made up. They're groups of behavior that they
[38:07] Speaker 2: have turned into a mental illness. And then two thirds
[38:10] Speaker 2: of the people who vote on it are associated with
[38:13] Speaker 2: big Pharma. So they're making up more and more mental
[38:16] Speaker 2: illnesses every year, and then they come up with some
[38:19] Speaker 2: kind of toxic drug to treat the symptoms. There is
[38:23] Speaker 2: no cure. They have no cure for anything.
[38:27] Speaker 1: Would you say much of what people experience as mental
[38:33] Speaker 1: illness has more of a spiritual foundation than we would think?
[38:37] Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I think that. Would I say, doing MACE
[38:42] Speaker 3: and also doing deliverance, is there people who come from
[38:45] Speaker 3: backgrounds with trauma, people who have had what in MACE
[38:50] Speaker 3: we call upsets, big upsets that they are very vulnerable
[38:56] Speaker 3: to these voices who will tell them all kinds of things.
[38:59] Speaker 3: Although they don't realize it's a voice. They think it's
[39:02] Speaker 3: their own thought. I'm no good. I mean, that's typical
[39:05] Speaker 3: during treat to see that mays all the time, I'm
[39:07] Speaker 3: no good. Where'd that idea come from?
[39:09] Speaker 2: Why?
[39:09] Speaker 3: Why? Why does somebody in the middle of an upset
[39:12] Speaker 3: turn on themselves and say I'm no good. I think
[39:15] Speaker 3: it's a suggestion from outside. I'm no good. I'll never
[39:18] Speaker 3: be a good I'll always be a failure. Where where
[39:21] Speaker 3: do those things come from? That's all that negative messaging.
[39:24] Speaker 3: And I see people with depression who have had the
[39:28] Speaker 3: same messaging with anxiety, and it's the same messaging. So
[39:31] Speaker 3: it's not just schizophrenics, it's it's everybody. And it's in
[39:36] Speaker 3: Jerry talking about it some other shows. They talk to everybody,
[39:40] Speaker 3: They talk to you, they talk to me. Yeah, negative suggestions.
[39:45] Speaker 3: And I've I've come to the conclusion that when I
[39:48] Speaker 3: get a negative thought, I check it at the door.
[39:50] Speaker 3: I literally do. And I think I'd say, who's this benefit?
[39:54] Speaker 3: Does it benefit me to be thinking it's about myself
[39:57] Speaker 3: about somebody else about the world? What benefit is in it,
[40:01] Speaker 3: and if the answers there's none, I get rid of it.
[40:04] Speaker 3: I talk it up, dude, that's you know, that's another
[40:07] Speaker 3: entity talking to me. But they everybody and people don't
[40:11] Speaker 3: realize that.
[40:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, they can insert thoughts into your mind that sound
[40:16] Speaker 2: exactly like the tens of thousands of thoughts that go
[40:18] Speaker 2: through your mind on a given day, that there is
[40:21] Speaker 2: no where are the voices. It sounds just just like
[40:26] Speaker 2: all the other thoughts that you're having. But there is
[40:29] Speaker 2: no intention there. It doesn't have a good intent, you
[40:33] Speaker 2: know there is. It's negative. And what's interesting is, you
[40:36] Speaker 2: know with the mace they like Judy was saying, there's
[40:39] Speaker 2: something called the negative identity that occurs during a trauma. So,
[40:46] Speaker 2: and what Judy was saying is during that trauma, the
[40:50] Speaker 2: person makes a decision about themselves and it's never a
[40:54] Speaker 2: good decision. You don't make a good decision when you're
[40:57] Speaker 2: in the midst of a trauma. And what's interesting is
[41:01] Speaker 2: why is that decision always negative and against oneself? So
[41:07] Speaker 2: I think that's at the moment where these things come
[41:10] Speaker 2: in and go, this horrible thing happened to you Because
[41:14] Speaker 2: you're this way, it's never anything good. You know, it's
[41:19] Speaker 2: never anything like, oh, well, you saved all these people
[41:22] Speaker 2: and uh, you know it's uh, it's it's always something bad.
[41:27] Speaker 2: You know, you're you're bad, You're worthless. Uh and worthlessness.
[41:32] Speaker 2: This is one of the biggest ones I see in
[41:34] Speaker 2: in the MACE practice. Yeah, you know, I'm feeling worthless.
[41:39] Speaker 2: I'm feeling uh no good, useless, Uh hopeless, hopeless.
[41:45] Speaker 3: Hopeless, useless, no good. It's all negative and they're so
[41:50] Speaker 3: they're so common. But you know something you ought to
[41:52] Speaker 3: know too, though. I have people come to me and
[41:55] Speaker 3: all this voice is talking and started out is really fun.
[41:59] Speaker 3: Stuff started out as somebody thinking, oh, they have an
[42:03] Speaker 3: energetic being talking to them. I have one client that
[42:07] Speaker 3: came to me. They were teaching her about energy medicine.
[42:11] Speaker 3: They were telling her what to research. They actually had
[42:13] Speaker 3: her up in the middle of the night, driving around
[42:15] Speaker 3: the car and training her to obey them to turn
[42:18] Speaker 3: left and to turn right. They spent a whole month
[42:22] Speaker 3: training her and coaching her and grooming her by pretending
[42:27] Speaker 3: to be friendly and warm.
[42:29] Speaker 2: And helping her, and that's common.
[42:32] Speaker 3: After thirty days, she woke up and she was a
[42:34] Speaker 3: schizophrenic and she's like, how did I how did how
[42:38] Speaker 3: did I get here? And we had to unwind all
[42:41] Speaker 3: that and she's fine now, she's doing really well. She's healed.
[42:44] Speaker 3: She's not a schizophrenic anymore. And but it started out
[42:49] Speaker 3: as such a fun little product because she was she
[42:53] Speaker 3: was into energy. That was her thing, so she thought
[42:55] Speaker 3: these were this was just positive energy from the universe.
[42:58] Speaker 3: She would be talking to you. I said, be careful
[43:01] Speaker 3: who you're talking to. You don't know who's going to
[43:07] Speaker 3: answer you. It's like, oh maybe maybe you will not
[43:10] Speaker 3: be talking. No, talk to somebody you know by name.
[43:15] Speaker 3: Don't don't be talking the inverse because it's going to answer.
[43:18] Speaker 3: It's a provert says, if you look for trouble, it
[43:21] Speaker 3: will find you. I think the corollaria that is, if
[43:25] Speaker 3: you look into things that you shouldn't be looking into,
[43:27] Speaker 3: it will find you.
[43:28] Speaker 2: And Wiji boards are another one. People think they're a game.
[43:31] Speaker 2: Those things should be outlawed. They're very dangerous. I don't
[43:35] Speaker 2: know how many people I've talked to over the years
[43:37] Speaker 2: who started out with Wuiji boards, you know, and then
[43:40] Speaker 2: all of a sudden the entity they were talking to
[43:43] Speaker 2: on the Wiji board appeared in their head and started
[43:45] Speaker 2: talking to them. They are not toys. They're dangerous.
[43:51] Speaker 3: I don't one time call me from the East coast.
[43:54] Speaker 3: She called me up and she was screaming, and my
[43:57] Speaker 3: husband sitting next to me, going hang up, hang up.
[43:59] Speaker 3: I'm like, no, I got to know what you're saying.
[44:01] Speaker 3: And she's screaming, and she's going, I've done everything. I've
[44:04] Speaker 3: done Witchcraft, I've done new Aide, I've done Rique, I've
[44:07] Speaker 3: done Reachboard, I've done park cart, I've done everything she does.
[44:10] Speaker 3: And then she heard Jerry. She said, I heard Jerry
[44:13] Speaker 3: Marzinski and he said that they don't like the name
[44:15] Speaker 3: of Jesus. She said, so, I when they came to me,
[44:18] Speaker 3: I told him go away in the name of Jesus.
[44:19] Speaker 3: And she says they left m and she said so.
[44:23] Speaker 3: She says, I'm here. She did. I didn't know her
[44:25] Speaker 3: from Adam. She's like, I'm here because I'm done. I'm
[44:28] Speaker 3: done with all that stuff. I want you to get
[44:29] Speaker 3: rid of this stuff for me, in the name of Jesus.
[44:30] Speaker 3: And I said, fine, let's get rid of it.
[44:33] Speaker 1: This is a common theme I hear with many New
[44:36] Speaker 1: Age practitioners. Channelers. Eventually they come to realize that what
[44:42] Speaker 1: they've been speaking with does not have their best interest
[44:45] Speaker 1: in mind at all. Let's get into some of the
[44:48] Speaker 1: healing modalities. You mentioned MACE a few times, Jerry, I
[44:53] Speaker 1: know that there are other kinds of modalities. Duty you
[44:58] Speaker 1: got rid of your voices with your faith in Christ,
[45:01] Speaker 1: there seems to be different modalities to get rid of
[45:05] Speaker 1: these things, So let's talk about that.
[45:08] Speaker 2: Yeah, See, MACE is it's like a it's a it's
[45:12] Speaker 2: a good precursor to to what Judy is doing because
[45:16] Speaker 2: there's always trauma. And that's what MACE does, is it
[45:19] Speaker 2: dissolves trauma, and it doesn't in like an hour, it's gone.
[45:24] Speaker 2: So all this trauma that these entities are feeding off of,
[45:28] Speaker 2: you know what happens when there's a trauma. There's a
[45:32] Speaker 2: bad feeling that goes along with it, and there's a
[45:35] Speaker 2: decision as to what part the victim played in that trauma.
[45:42] Speaker 2: That decision is virtually always negative. And I think that's
[45:47] Speaker 2: the point where these entities come in and tell the person,
[45:53] Speaker 2: you know, this happened because you're worthless, or this happened
[45:56] Speaker 2: because you're stupid, or this happened because of whatever. So
[46:00] Speaker 2: it's like they're most vulnerable at the time of the trauma.
[46:03] Speaker 2: It's kind of like what hypnotists do. They create a
[46:09] Speaker 2: distraction or a confusion, and then they put a suggestion
[46:13] Speaker 2: in there. So I think these things at the moment
[46:15] Speaker 2: of that trauma, they put in a suggestion. You're stupid,
[46:18] Speaker 2: or you're worthless, or or you're ugly, or nobody likes
[46:22] Speaker 2: you because of whatever this trauma is. So what the
[46:27] Speaker 2: ego does that hurts? I mean, it stays there and
[46:30] Speaker 2: it torments the person for a long time, and then
[46:33] Speaker 2: after a while, the ego shows up and goes, hey,
[46:35] Speaker 2: you're not doing good with this. It just remunerating going
[46:39] Speaker 2: over and over and over again. Let me handle this.
[46:41] Speaker 2: So it takes it and it throws it into your
[46:43] Speaker 2: subconscious mind and then it locks it down. So now
[46:47] Speaker 2: it's not in the victim's face all the time, but
[46:51] Speaker 2: it is in the subconscious mind, and it's still alive,
[46:54] Speaker 2: and it's still affecting their behavior, how they interpret reality,
[46:57] Speaker 2: how they react to people, what they say, what they do,
[47:01] Speaker 2: what they think. It's still there, So it's like a
[47:04] Speaker 2: computer virus operating in the background, and it takes a
[47:10] Speaker 2: lot of energy to keep it up there, fenced off.
[47:14] Speaker 2: So now it becomes like a landmine. You know, when
[47:18] Speaker 2: somebody shows up who reminds that person of the of
[47:22] Speaker 2: the person who uh traumatized them in the first place,
[47:26] Speaker 2: that thing blows and it tells them, tells the person, hey,
[47:30] Speaker 2: this guy's a little bit too close to the person
[47:32] Speaker 2: who traumatized you in the first place. Either attack them,
[47:37] Speaker 2: or avoid them, or run from them, you know. And
[47:43] Speaker 2: so it projects that garbage out onto somebody else out
[47:47] Speaker 2: there when it's actually in their mind, in their subconscious mind,
[47:51] Speaker 2: and it will go off over and over again, and
[47:54] Speaker 2: each time it does it gets stronger and stronger. So
[47:59] Speaker 2: it causes a lot of trouble. It's like the person
[48:01] Speaker 2: you hate, you know that every time this particular type
[48:05] Speaker 2: of person shows up, you can just feel it in
[48:07] Speaker 2: your gut. You don't like them. They don't even have
[48:09] Speaker 2: to open their mouth and you don't like them. So
[48:12] Speaker 2: that thing stays there and causes a lot of psychological
[48:16] Speaker 2: damage and a lot of trauma all through the person's life.
[48:21] Speaker 2: What MACE does is it takes that thing and it
[48:24] Speaker 2: hooks up to the person's spirit. Okay, so there's a
[48:27] Speaker 2: process to do that. The spirit is positive, okay, negative
[48:33] Speaker 2: energy moves toward positive energy. So the maze process will
[48:38] Speaker 2: identify that thing and then turn it into an image
[48:43] Speaker 2: and hook it up to the person's spirit, which will
[48:46] Speaker 2: then dismantle it. It won't destroy that energy, but it
[48:50] Speaker 2: will turn it into positive energy. So the person, once
[48:54] Speaker 2: they're done the macee process, will feel more energy, and
[48:58] Speaker 2: they will feel clearer, and they'll feel lighter, and they
[49:01] Speaker 2: won't have that garbage there anymore. So now when that
[49:05] Speaker 2: particular kind of person shows up, there's going to be
[49:08] Speaker 2: a much more rational response. It won't be an irrational reaction.
[49:12] Speaker 2: It'll be more a response so that brings them closer
[49:16] Speaker 2: to who they really are, and that all that can
[49:19] Speaker 2: happen within an hour. So mace is what we call
[49:23] Speaker 2: a psycho energetic therapy. It's not anything like traditional therapy.
[49:29] Speaker 2: It was invented by a boat captain who drove these
[49:33] Speaker 2: big freighters back and forth across the ocean, and he
[49:36] Speaker 2: always was interested in how the mind worked. He spent
[49:39] Speaker 2: his whole life trying to figure out how the mind work,
[49:43] Speaker 2: and then he came up with this process and it works.
[49:47] Speaker 2: I mean, I've tried all kinds of therapies of my
[49:50] Speaker 2: whole life, and this works better than anything I've ever seen.
[49:55] Speaker 2: So what I've seen is with some of the exorcist
[50:00] Speaker 2: I've worked with, is they can drive these things out,
[50:03] Speaker 2: but if the trauma that attracted them in the first
[50:07] Speaker 2: place isn't taken care of, they'll eventually come back. So
[50:12] Speaker 2: it's like they said in the Bible. You know, you
[50:14] Speaker 2: can clean out the house, you know, but if you
[50:17] Speaker 2: don't replace it with something else, you know, clean it out,
[50:21] Speaker 2: replace it with something else, these things will be back,
[50:24] Speaker 2: you know, tenfold.
[50:26] Speaker 1: Jerry, you said something interesting earlier that these things respond
[50:31] Speaker 1: negative to any kind of positive spiritual archetypes. Is that right?
[50:37] Speaker 2: Yeah. They don't want the person to be happy. They
[50:41] Speaker 2: don't want them watching America's Funniest videos. They want them
[50:45] Speaker 2: to be depressed. They don't want them to be happy.
[50:48] Speaker 2: They destroy families. They they will turn against anybody who
[50:53] Speaker 2: tries to help the victim, you know, So if the
[50:57] Speaker 2: mom and dad are trying to help their son or daughter,
[51:00] Speaker 2: they will turn against them and have that that son
[51:04] Speaker 2: or daughter costs so much turmoil in the family that
[51:07] Speaker 2: the mom and dad are relieved when they go to
[51:09] Speaker 2: their bedroom and close the door and stay there by themselves.
[51:13] Speaker 2: That's the worst thing you could allow them to do,
[51:15] Speaker 2: because that allows them complete access to the victim.
[51:19] Speaker 3: Well, you know, Jerry, the other thing I've seen them
[51:21] Speaker 3: do with families is that they get the parents so
[51:24] Speaker 3: engaged in the in the in the entities that the
[51:29] Speaker 3: parents are now asking the son or daughter, what are
[51:31] Speaker 3: they saying to you? You know, what's going on, so
[51:35] Speaker 3: that the whole family folds into this hole with the schizophrenic.
[51:39] Speaker 3: I've seen that a couple of times, and pulling that
[51:42] Speaker 3: whole family out is really hard because again, they've established
[51:46] Speaker 3: a relationship with its entity and it's actually frightening to
[51:51] Speaker 3: seeing parents and I've seen it a couple of times
[51:54] Speaker 3: and there was no one winding it. They were in
[51:57] Speaker 3: so deep.
[51:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, Jerry, had you worked with exorcists before? Is that right?
[52:03] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[52:05] Speaker 2: Yeah, there was one at the prison. You know, he
[52:07] Speaker 2: would he would drive those things out. Now, he wanted
[52:10] Speaker 2: to stay under cover because he didn't want the administration
[52:13] Speaker 2: to know he was doing that. But you know, at
[52:17] Speaker 2: that point, I didn't know Mace. I didn't have any
[52:20] Speaker 2: idea of anything that could really help these guys, and
[52:24] Speaker 2: these things would disappear, but they still had that trauma there,
[52:29] Speaker 2: which attracted these things back, all right. So these voices
[52:34] Speaker 2: are like sharks. They go after the wounded ones, you know,
[52:38] Speaker 2: or lions or tigers they get. They go after the
[52:41] Speaker 2: wounded in the in the pack that are not quite
[52:45] Speaker 2: as strong as the others, and they will attack them.
[52:49] Speaker 2: So they're like sharks in the ocean who smell blood.
[52:52] Speaker 2: They're attracted to negative mental, negative motion.
[53:00] Speaker 3: Also they also isolate them, Yes, they isolate them. They
[53:06] Speaker 3: get them alone so they can have more control on them.
[53:08] Speaker 3: They the people gauzopranics will begin to hang out in
[53:12] Speaker 3: their room and they'll cut off their friends, cut off
[53:15] Speaker 3: their family, they'll cut off their life. Pretty soon, they
[53:17] Speaker 3: can't work, you know. Pretty soon they're they're just stuck
[53:21] Speaker 3: in a room by themselves. I have one client that
[53:23] Speaker 3: i've done deliverance with and this goes with what Derry
[53:26] Speaker 3: would say. And then deliverance with them five or six times.
[53:29] Speaker 3: I can get rid of the denons. But the problem
[53:31] Speaker 3: is you won't deal with the trauma. He won't deal
[53:35] Speaker 3: with filling himself up with the good stuff and dealing
[53:40] Speaker 3: with bad stuff, the negative identities that he has in him.
[53:44] Speaker 3: And so they come back. And that's I see that
[53:48] Speaker 3: once in a while, but that one person. It's been
[53:50] Speaker 3: ongoing for a year and I finally probably I can't
[53:53] Speaker 3: help you if you're not going to do what you
[53:54] Speaker 3: need to do.
[53:55] Speaker 1: And what does MACE stand for?
[53:58] Speaker 2: That's the name of the guy who ented the system?
[54:01] Speaker 1: Okay?
[54:04] Speaker 2: Had I had one patient that I've worked with for
[54:06] Speaker 2: like six months. We finally got rid of the voices.
[54:10] Speaker 2: This was in the prison, and he was the one
[54:12] Speaker 2: that said, you know, when they disappeared, they screamed and
[54:16] Speaker 2: he almost fell out of the chair. You know, he's
[54:19] Speaker 2: the one that said that silence is deafening. So I
[54:23] Speaker 2: checked back with him six months later and I said,
[54:26] Speaker 2: how you doing? And he goes doing well. He was
[54:29] Speaker 2: working for motor vehicle in the prison, answering questions to callers,
[54:34] Speaker 2: and I said, how are you doing with the voices?
[54:36] Speaker 2: He said. I asked him to come back, and I said,
[54:38] Speaker 2: what in the blazes did you do that for? And
[54:41] Speaker 2: he says, I was lonely. So what happens is once
[54:46] Speaker 2: they cut off all other living beings out of their life,
[54:51] Speaker 2: then all they have is the voices.
[54:54] Speaker 3: Yeah, I had one client that did that. He cut
[54:57] Speaker 3: off his friends, he cut off everybody and I asked him,
[55:01] Speaker 3: why why have you chosen isolated? Is why I don't
[55:06] Speaker 3: need anything else. They make me laugh, they talk to me,
[55:11] Speaker 3: they're my friends, They're everything I need. And he would
[55:14] Speaker 3: walk around the house laughing and his parents would say,
[55:17] Speaker 3: what are you laughing at? How they just told me
[55:18] Speaker 3: a joke? And he liked jokes. He had a good
[55:21] Speaker 3: sense of humor. So they became his whole life. So
[55:25] Speaker 3: they isolate them so they can have all of them.
[55:28] Speaker 1: Last few minutes, is there anything that we didn't cover
[55:32] Speaker 1: that either of you feel the audience should hear about,
[55:36] Speaker 1: as well as what should a person do if they
[55:40] Speaker 1: believe that they're afflicted by these voices? What would you
[55:44] Speaker 1: recommend Jared?
[55:49] Speaker 2: Well, you know, I first recommend mace to get rid
[55:53] Speaker 2: of the you know, the trauma. Now, another thing we
[56:00] Speaker 2: have on my website is something called that that's a
[56:03] Speaker 2: lie program, because these voices are consummate liars. They lie
[56:07] Speaker 2: about everything. You can't trust anything they say, you know,
[56:11] Speaker 2: and if they do tell you a truth, it's only
[56:14] Speaker 2: to trap you and stab you in the back later.
[56:16] Speaker 2: So Sherry Sweeney, the my co author in this book here,
[56:22] Speaker 2: which talks about how we discovered that these voices are
[56:26] Speaker 2: entities and not hallucinations. She came up with a program
[56:32] Speaker 2: that she offers free on my website at Jerrymarzinski dot com.
[56:36] Speaker 2: It's called that That's a lie program. It works well
[56:39] Speaker 2: for abusive, intrusive thoughts. It works well with these voices
[56:45] Speaker 2: because it talks about there's like three sections to it,
[56:49] Speaker 2: absolutely free. You go to my website at Jerrymarsinski dot com.
[56:53] Speaker 2: Then go to articles under articles, leaf down the page
[56:57] Speaker 2: and you'll see it that that's a lie program. If
[57:01] Speaker 2: you don't believe what these things are telling you, they
[57:04] Speaker 2: can't get their claws in you, So go to the
[57:10] Speaker 2: website visit that. The second thing is for those of
[57:15] Speaker 2: you who are working with schizophrenics and don't believe these
[57:19] Speaker 2: things are entities. Again, go to my website jerrymarsinski dot
[57:24] Speaker 2: com under articles and find the patterns that these voices run.
[57:29] Speaker 2: Take them and ask your schizophrenics if they aren't the
[57:33] Speaker 2: voices aren't running those patterns. This is an operational definition
[57:38] Speaker 2: of schizophrenia. And you'll see for yourself. You know, I
[57:43] Speaker 2: don't need to have any what do you call it,
[57:47] Speaker 2: peer reviewed anything? You just go there, pull up that
[57:50] Speaker 2: list and ask them yourselves. Are the voices negative? Are
[57:56] Speaker 2: they anti religious? Do they foster and create negative emotion?
[58:00] Speaker 2: Are they energetically drinraining you? And twenty three other such patterns,
[58:05] Speaker 2: and you'll see for yourself what these things are. You know,
[58:09] Speaker 2: the psychiatric mafia is making billions of dollars every year
[58:13] Speaker 2: and along with the big pharma selling these toxic chemicals
[58:19] Speaker 2: that they feed you telling you that there is no
[58:22] Speaker 2: other treatment for schizophrenia other than their toxic medications. And
[58:29] Speaker 2: these antipsychotics with long term use will do permanent neurological damage.
[58:35] Speaker 2: I've seen it over and over again at the State hospital.
[58:38] Speaker 2: These people get to the point where they can't walk
[58:40] Speaker 2: with a normal gate, they start shuffling. You know, almost
[58:43] Speaker 2: everybody who takes those drugs eventually goes off them because
[58:47] Speaker 2: they can't tolerate their toxic side effects. Now that's not
[58:51] Speaker 2: to say that there aren't people who need these things.
[58:54] Speaker 2: I mean I've run into patients that were so violent
[58:57] Speaker 2: and so out of it that that's the only thing
[59:00] Speaker 2: that would work with them, other than keeping them in
[59:02] Speaker 2: a straightjack or chain to the wall all day. So
[59:06] Speaker 2: they have their place, but it's not constant, never ending use.
[59:11] Speaker 2: You know, this garbage that psychiatry is feeding people is
[59:14] Speaker 2: that there is no hope. Once you've got schizophrenia, it
[59:18] Speaker 2: will always be schizophrenic, it will never end. It's a
[59:21] Speaker 2: complete and utter lie. It's a hopeless, deceptive lie.
[59:27] Speaker 3: My website which is Strategies for Overcovers, there's all kinds
[59:31] Speaker 3: of free material and there are free books on Deliverance now.
[59:35] Speaker 3: And Deliverance is a Christian ministry, and I work mostly
[59:41] Speaker 3: with Christians, although I do interception with people who aren't
[59:44] Speaker 3: really There are a lot of people who just don't
[59:46] Speaker 3: believe in Jesus and I'll do intersection with them, and
[59:48] Speaker 3: I've actually seen tremendous results just for that. There's lots
[59:52] Speaker 3: of free materials. But like Jerry, I work with a
[59:54] Speaker 3: lot of people. I do the mace with them. I
[59:57] Speaker 3: get rid of the trauma, the triggers, the depression, the anxiety,
[1:00:03] Speaker 3: the fears. All that stuff dissolves with mace, you know,
[1:00:07] Speaker 3: and then you can get rid of the spiritual stuff.
[1:00:09] Speaker 3: Sometimes I do it the other way around. I get
[1:00:11] Speaker 3: rid of the spiritual garbage first and then I do mace.
[1:00:15] Speaker 3: And sometimes for me makes it easier to do maze
[1:00:17] Speaker 3: because I don't have the voices interrupting, which I've found
[1:00:20] Speaker 3: and they will do.
[1:00:21] Speaker 2: When they do, they jump in there and they'll go
[1:00:24] Speaker 2: this guy's in a nutcase. Don't listen to him. This
[1:00:27] Speaker 2: is a bunch of crap. They'll do anything they can
[1:00:30] Speaker 2: to interfere with me.
[1:00:31] Speaker 3: Yeah. And I also on my website there are two
[1:00:35] Speaker 3: videos of two men who, through deliverance, have been cured.
[1:00:40] Speaker 3: Don't take cured. They've been freed from schizophrenia. I don't
[1:00:44] Speaker 3: use the word cure. I don't cure anyone. They've been freed.
[1:00:47] Speaker 3: And one is a fairly short video. They're the ones
[1:00:50] Speaker 3: longer me Andrews a little bit, but it tells the
[1:00:53] Speaker 3: story of people who have gotten free. So people know
[1:00:56] Speaker 3: this is not a permanent diagnosis. Doesn't happen to be.
[1:00:59] Speaker 3: The other thing I would say is that and I
[1:01:02] Speaker 3: the Jerry degree with this. People have to be ready
[1:01:06] Speaker 3: to do this. I have I have parents who call me.
[1:01:09] Speaker 3: I have brothers and sisters who call me that they're
[1:01:11] Speaker 3: you know, their their brother schezophrenic. And he's been like
[1:01:14] Speaker 3: this for ten years. And what I help him? The
[1:01:16] Speaker 3: first thing I ask is does he want help? Yeah?
[1:01:19] Speaker 3: It is he desperate for help? Is he ready for he?
[1:01:21] Speaker 3: Is he willing to do whatever it's going to take. Well,
[1:01:24] Speaker 3: you know I said listen, when your brother's ready, you
[1:01:27] Speaker 3: know you have my phone number, call me. But I
[1:01:30] Speaker 3: won't take on anyone who isn't ready to make the change.
[1:01:36] Speaker 3: That's when you see results, and you see extraordinary results.
[1:01:41] Speaker 3: My mind gets blown every week by what I see
[1:01:45] Speaker 3: happens in the name of Jesus. It blows me away.
[1:01:49] Speaker 3: And so if people are willing, you know, I'm willing
[1:01:53] Speaker 3: to work with them, and I could do either mates
[1:01:55] Speaker 3: or deliverance or intercession.
[1:01:57] Speaker 1: Excellent, fantastic information. Thank you both so much. I will
[1:02:01] Speaker 1: have all your links easily accessible for everyone in the
[1:02:05] Speaker 1: description and we'll definitely have to do this again until
[1:02:08] Speaker 1: next time. Everyone, have an excellent evening and we will
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