# Part 2: We Spoke To A Victim And Her Perpetrator. This Is Kai's Story.

An episode of [True Crime Conversations](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1469153910), 22 Jul 2026, 52 min.

Audio: https://traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/3ea926be-9be7-482a-8ac3-a44f016e43d1/abaa347e-8ac5-454e-85f9-aa64005c285f/62a81cea-fcba-4f35-b717-b48e003c9b2d/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=6d9fdc19-147e-4f77-8d3f-aa64005e5923

Listen to Part 1 with Alena here. In 2000, Alena Turley was held at knifepoint by a man she had previously been in a relationship with. The terrifying incident left her with PTSD and lasting trauma. Alena was able to disarm him that night, but what might have happened if she hadn’t? In these two special episodes of True Crime Conversations, we’re exploring something rarely heard in true crime storytelling. With Alena’s blessing, we sit down with her to talk about the relationship, the warning signs, and the traumatic night that changed her life. We’ve also invited the person responsible for the crime, who we’ll refer to by the pseudonym Kai, to answer the questions we rarely get the chance to ask the person on the other side of the crime. This isn’t about justification or excuses. It’s about accountability, examining what happened, and trying to better understand the complex realities behind an act of violence. LINKS If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636. Contact Full Stop Australia on 1800 385 578, 7 days, 24 hours. GET IN TOUCH Follow us on Instagram and TikTok @truecrimeconversations Want us to cover a case on the podcast? Email us at truecrime@mamamia.com.au or send us a voice note. Make sure to leave us a rating and review on Apple & Spotify to let us know how you're liking the episodes. CREDITS Guest: Alena Turley Host: Gemma Bath Senior Producer: Tahli Blackman Group Executive Producer: Ilaria Brophy Video Editor: Julian Rosario Audio Designer: Tegan Salder Mamamia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we have recorded this podcast. Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: I'm Jemma Bath, host of True Crime Conversations, and welcome
[0:03] Speaker 1: to part two of this episode revisiting a domestic violence
[0:07] Speaker 1: crime with both the victim and perpetrator twenty six years
[0:11] Speaker 1: after the fact. If you haven't listened to Elena's story,
[0:14] Speaker 1: head there first. In her late twenties, Elena was threatened
[0:17] Speaker 1: with a knife by a man she'd recently broken up with.
[0:21] Speaker 1: The incident left her terrified, and it took a year
[0:24] Speaker 1: long decline in her mental health for her to finally
[0:27] Speaker 1: be diagnosed with PTSD. Now we're hearing from Kai, not
[0:32] Speaker 1: his real name. We're keeping him anonymous at his request,
[0:36] Speaker 1: but in our chat he didn't shy away from taking
[0:38] Speaker 1: ownership for his actions. A reminder that this is just
[0:42] Speaker 1: one story, and if you've been the victim of a
[0:45] Speaker 1: violent crime, please don't take Elena and Kai's story as instructive.
[0:50] Speaker 1: In most cases, women should never reconnect with their abuser.
[0:54] Speaker 1: Cutting them out of your life is essential in the
[0:56] Speaker 1: majority of cases. As far as we're concerned, encouraged, Kai
[1:01] Speaker 1: and Alaina's story is very unique. Because they have reconnected,
[1:06] Speaker 1: We've been given a chance to really examine the crime
[1:08] Speaker 1: that shape them from all angles. To hear about how
[1:11] Speaker 1: it affected them in the aftermath, on what path their
[1:14] Speaker 1: lives took for the nearly three decades after just a Warning,
[1:18] Speaker 1: Kai does delve into suicidal ideation, and there is some
[1:22] Speaker 1: strong language used in one section of our chat. Here's Kai.
[1:26] Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us on True Crime Conversations. Why
[1:29] Speaker 1: are you here? Why have you decided to tell your
[1:32] Speaker 1: side of the story.
[1:34] Speaker 2: I'm here to assist everybody to understand the details of
[1:43] Speaker 2: what happened with me and how I got there, and
[1:48] Speaker 2: then you know, the tragedies that was you know, that
[1:53] Speaker 2: came from everything and generally, yeah, truly genuinely would like
[2:01] Speaker 2: to share my side of the story for the embedterment
[2:05] Speaker 2: of women. And I know that, you know, men need
[2:13] Speaker 2: to take responsibility and they need to you know, do
[2:18] Speaker 2: work on themselves, and most don't know how to. And
[2:23] Speaker 2: so because I've gone to rock bottom and committed crimes
[2:29] Speaker 2: and crime against women, I think it's really important to
[2:34] Speaker 2: turn up and to tell the whole storyline so that
[2:39] Speaker 2: everybody can look at it and you know, take something
[2:45] Speaker 2: from it, whether they're and you know, women problems in
[2:52] Speaker 2: that in this type of space are caused by men,
[2:56] Speaker 2: So it's only natural that men should come up to
[3:00] Speaker 2: you know, turn up for the women and you know
[3:05] Speaker 2: atone if that's the word, or to do more in
[3:08] Speaker 2: their lives because you know, men need help.
[3:13] Speaker 1: It's a really heartening answer to here. Actually, thank you
[3:16] Speaker 1: for being here and for saying that.
[3:18] Speaker 2: That's my pleasure, it's an honor.
[3:21] Speaker 1: Before we get to that night in two thousand and
[3:23] Speaker 1: everything that happened, tell us a bit about how you
[3:26] Speaker 1: grew up your childhood, what kind of influenced you.
[3:30] Speaker 2: I come from a very big family, and I come
[3:36] Speaker 2: from a family, a Samoan family, and yeah, we had
[3:42] Speaker 2: a really good upbringing. We're working class and parents worked
[3:47] Speaker 2: really hard, made all the sacrifices, and at that time
[3:53] Speaker 2: a lot of Pacific Island parents couldn't afford to put
[3:58] Speaker 2: this their children into private schools. In our case, we
[4:02] Speaker 2: were put into a private school that had turned public
[4:08] Speaker 2: and they took in big numbers of Maori and Pacific
[4:12] Speaker 2: Island students guys school and yeah, so I went to
[4:20] Speaker 2: that sort of setup. I didn't do well at all
[4:23] Speaker 2: linguistically language wise. We were always like five years behind everybody,
[4:29] Speaker 2: you know, so if we're you know, we were still
[4:32] Speaker 2: all at that time speaking Samoan from the ages of
[4:36] Speaker 2: five to nine, so you know that we carried into
[4:40] Speaker 2: our older years. If you didn't, you know, work things
[4:44] Speaker 2: out fast enough, you would take that right through your
[4:47] Speaker 2: whole career, and generally speaking, you would need to go
[4:53] Speaker 2: back to school again, or you know, get lower jobs,
[4:57] Speaker 2: et cetera, or go to My family upbringing was really
[5:02] Speaker 2: really good. My parents were really hard working and they
[5:08] Speaker 2: made us. They put us in a good position.
[5:12] Speaker 1: What about things like drugs, alcohol, violence? When did they
[5:17] Speaker 1: start appearing in your life?
[5:19] Speaker 2: For me, it was even my brothers didn't even know that,
[5:26] Speaker 2: you know, we were watching them. I was, you know,
[5:30] Speaker 2: like the second youngest, and growing up as a little kid,
[5:33] Speaker 2: you know, it was normal. It was just brothers and
[5:37] Speaker 2: you know, a hierarchy in the brothers. And then you know,
[5:43] Speaker 2: it wasn't until I was about eleven and twelve that
[5:48] Speaker 2: I started seeing things like we could look out the
[5:52] Speaker 2: window and in the park and we would see other
[5:54] Speaker 2: Pacific Island kids. We knew, you know, that they had
[6:00] Speaker 2: had lost their way already, and so they were in
[6:03] Speaker 2: the park sniffing glue. And that's so we were Christian,
[6:08] Speaker 2: you know, Sam Owens, and we went to church and that.
[6:12] Speaker 2: So that's all we knew really was church and our culture.
[6:15] Speaker 2: But then when we looked out the window into the park,
[6:17] Speaker 2: we would always see that. I could never thought that
[6:22] Speaker 2: I had would graduate to something like that. So essentially
[6:27] Speaker 2: I was copying what they were doing from watching from afar.
[6:31] Speaker 2: And I started petrol sniffing in the garage around about
[6:37] Speaker 2: twelve thirteen, and then so young, yeap. But the kids
[6:42] Speaker 2: that were out there doing that, Maori and Pacific kids,
[6:46] Speaker 2: they happened to be doing that, you know. So yeah,
[6:49] Speaker 2: so it was kind of like two worlds. Clearly we're
[6:53] Speaker 2: in two worlds. And then there was a world in
[6:56] Speaker 2: the park that I could see, and I gravitated to that.
[7:00] Speaker 2: And as I got older, my older brothers got older,
[7:02] Speaker 2: and then they started drinking the working and drinking, so
[7:06] Speaker 2: it was casual working and drinking. And then what they
[7:11] Speaker 2: didn't know, as I was gradually getting older and older,
[7:15] Speaker 2: that I was hiding a lot behind there, you know.
[7:18] Speaker 2: And so when they would have their drinking parties or
[7:22] Speaker 2: their twenty first parties, we would be the barman, and
[7:26] Speaker 2: so we would take like about seventy six cases of beer,
[7:31] Speaker 2: Me and my best friend. We would hide about ten
[7:33] Speaker 2: of them under the house. We would you know, rip
[7:36] Speaker 2: them off at the party, and then during the following
[7:40] Speaker 2: weeks we would have our own party and then we
[7:43] Speaker 2: would go to school and hide some of them at
[7:46] Speaker 2: the school. And yeah, so we lived double lives as.
[7:51] Speaker 1: Very early, but it was normalized.
[7:54] Speaker 2: We hid it so well from our parents, who you know,
[7:58] Speaker 2: they didn't even know.
[8:01] Speaker 1: Can you tell me a bit about how your culture
[8:05] Speaker 1: or your family treated women. Was respect and like equality
[8:10] Speaker 1: for women something that was demonstrated.
[8:11] Speaker 2: To you from what I had seen generally, and this
[8:17] Speaker 2: is my experience, women were treated good. But men and
[8:26] Speaker 2: women if they stepped out of line, you'd get the
[8:30] Speaker 2: same punishment, which is severe. Like you know, yeah, you were.
[8:38] Speaker 1: Just what is stepping out of line? What would stepping
[8:42] Speaker 1: out of line look like for a woman?
[8:46] Speaker 2: For women? You know, not doing what people were told.
[8:50] Speaker 2: This is a general thing, you know, and if you
[8:54] Speaker 2: don't do what you're told, then it is reinforced by violence, right,
[9:00] Speaker 2: And so that was the kind of like irony or
[9:04] Speaker 2: the paradox. You know, our parents loved us and they
[9:08] Speaker 2: people can meter it out, you know, properly as it
[9:13] Speaker 2: should be, but there are cases where you know, you know,
[9:21] Speaker 2: and I've seen it too. You know that my mother
[9:23] Speaker 2: would always jump in and stop my father if it
[9:28] Speaker 2: got out of control, and then vice versa. If my
[9:34] Speaker 2: mother got out of control, then my father would jump in.
[9:38] Speaker 2: But generally speaking, in some more culture, there's a film
[9:41] Speaker 2: coming out and it's called Tanner and it talks of
[9:45] Speaker 2: a tenor guy and he talks about it. He openly
[9:49] Speaker 2: talks about it. It's going around. He'll be in Sydney
[9:51] Speaker 2: Festival coming out, and you know, he talks about the
[9:56] Speaker 2: severity of the punishment, you know, and that they also
[10:02] Speaker 2: talk about the metering out of punishment and yeah, so
[10:07] Speaker 2: you would get it very badly if you continue to
[10:13] Speaker 2: be disruptive. So women, I couldn't really say that I
[10:22] Speaker 2: didn't see like purposeful things in my life in my
[10:27] Speaker 2: family because there was a male dominated But I can
[10:31] Speaker 2: understand from seeing things going wrong when men grow up
[10:39] Speaker 2: and then they take it out on their women and
[10:44] Speaker 2: their kids. Yeah, that's what I can see. They don't
[10:49] Speaker 2: hold back in terms of they're using their frustration of
[10:56] Speaker 2: their situations and overstepping the load on a person, which
[11:03] Speaker 2: is in most some oons or Pacific islands can tell
[11:09] Speaker 2: you about that situation that it's sometimes it's completely over
[11:13] Speaker 2: the top.
[11:15] Speaker 1: Did you experience a lot of violence against you?
[11:18] Speaker 2: Yes, I did. I experienced you know, violence from just
[11:24] Speaker 2: you know, boys being boys, and then violence outside of
[11:30] Speaker 2: our family. Yeah, early youth gangs. So the next thing
[11:37] Speaker 2: we progressed into was we were Catholic boys, good private
[11:42] Speaker 2: school boys. But then we were in organized street youth gangs,
[11:48] Speaker 2: and violence was a big part of that. And we
[11:52] Speaker 2: used to train, like in every martial art form because
[11:56] Speaker 2: we're knowing we're going to be going on the street
[11:59] Speaker 2: and that other those other gangs down the road. You know,
[12:03] Speaker 2: if we if we clash, it's all on.
[12:07] Speaker 1: The other part of your childhood I want to touch
[12:09] Speaker 1: on is you were forced to carry a lot of
[12:11] Speaker 1: grief in your childhood. Can you touch on that because
[12:14] Speaker 1: you lost quite a few family members.
[12:17] Speaker 2: Yeah, I lost two of my brothers in a car accident.
[12:22] Speaker 2: So given that I was already on all of these things,
[12:29] Speaker 2: a very young alcoholic, you know, I guess that was
[12:34] Speaker 2: by thirteen, by you know, by sixteen, seventeen eighteen, it
[12:39] Speaker 2: was all on. But I think you know that was
[12:42] Speaker 2: around when I was twenty one years old, and as
[12:46] Speaker 2: a male, you know, going through all of that, it
[12:52] Speaker 2: was really hard, and I didn't have many people to
[12:57] Speaker 2: really talk about it. You know. If if I had known,
[13:01] Speaker 2: you know, about Louise Hay then you know, then that
[13:06] Speaker 2: would have been great. But I only found out ten
[13:08] Speaker 2: years later, you know, so I started to look at
[13:12] Speaker 2: other you know, forms of new age and all of that.
[13:17] Speaker 2: But yeah, since when my brothers died, it was very
[13:23] Speaker 2: hard for me because I was assisting you know, my
[13:28] Speaker 2: family with our family business as well. You know, I
[13:34] Speaker 2: was still in the church, you know, and yeah, it
[13:40] Speaker 2: was really hard to take, you know, because it was
[13:46] Speaker 2: on a night that it was at one of my
[13:50] Speaker 2: friends party. Yeah, so, you know, losing them started, you know,
[13:57] Speaker 2: a massive decline for me, and I started getting into
[14:02] Speaker 2: hitting the drugs and alcohol, you know, that whole front
[14:06] Speaker 2: that everything was okay, you know, I'm really strong, you know,
[14:10] Speaker 2: big boys don't cry and all of that sort of stuff.
[14:15] Speaker 2: But in hindsight, looking back at it, I started to
[14:18] Speaker 2: get into I just didn't care. I just you know,
[14:24] Speaker 2: I actually wanted to die, you know, when I look
[14:27] Speaker 2: back at it now, I really wanted to die. I
[14:29] Speaker 2: hated my hated myself. You know, I didn't know I
[14:34] Speaker 2: hated myself, but in everything that I did after definitely
[14:40] Speaker 2: shows that, you know, I had lost respect for myself
[14:44] Speaker 2: and then got into you know, drugs and alcohol and
[14:50] Speaker 2: you know that smiling face in the front, but behind
[14:53] Speaker 2: there was a massive tsunami of pain, anger, frustrate, it
[15:01] Speaker 2: all hit and Yeah, so I used to you know,
[15:07] Speaker 2: most of the people that I hang around with were
[15:10] Speaker 2: related in gangs, et cetera, and was working on the doors.
[15:16] Speaker 2: You know, there was a lot of drugs in the
[15:17] Speaker 2: nightclubs and all of that sort of stuff. You know,
[15:21] Speaker 2: there would be nights where I would take like twenty
[15:24] Speaker 2: Exsta sy pills and survive that. Well, I'm still here,
[15:30] Speaker 2: I'm still going. I used to drink, you know, I
[15:34] Speaker 2: didn't know I was a real full blow and alcoholic.
[15:39] Speaker 2: When I was with one of my friends who was
[15:41] Speaker 2: a meth dealer, and he was a nice guy. He
[15:44] Speaker 2: seemed like a nice guy.
[15:45] Speaker 1: A nice dealer.
[15:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, he was actually a nice guy. He was very
[15:50] Speaker 2: civil to me and I understand what he was doing.
[15:54] Speaker 2: But one night we were he said, oh, yeah, come over.
[15:58] Speaker 2: You know, we came over and then I wasn't a
[16:01] Speaker 2: type to buymeth at all, but by hanging around with
[16:05] Speaker 2: these guys all the time. I said, oh, try this,
[16:09] Speaker 2: and next thing, I'm trying this. And then about in
[16:12] Speaker 2: a few hours, I say, how are you feeling? Are
[16:14] Speaker 2: you feeling all right? Is there everything? I said, yeah, yeah, no,
[16:17] Speaker 2: I'm fine. Yeah nothing actually, And then another three hours
[16:21] Speaker 2: then they say how are you feeling now? I said, well, yeah,
[16:25] Speaker 2: the same. Then nothing, I don't think it. And then
[16:27] Speaker 2: they said to me, well you must be. You must
[16:30] Speaker 2: be feeling it because you've drank one case of beer,
[16:34] Speaker 2: one bottle of JDS and we have to go to
[16:38] Speaker 2: the bottle shop. And I remember that night, right, and
[16:41] Speaker 2: that's when my mind paused within that, within that dark
[16:46] Speaker 2: time that's on just trying to show that that's the
[16:53] Speaker 2: level of danger that I was doing to myself and
[16:58] Speaker 2: I didn't care.
[17:00] Speaker 1: It also shows the tolerance that you built up that
[17:02] Speaker 1: you could handle that much our Cohlon drugs.
[17:05] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm not proud of it, because in reality
[17:11] Speaker 2: now is although I have given up all of those things,
[17:14] Speaker 2: the damage does not, you know, go away, just because
[17:17] Speaker 2: you've stopped drinking and taking cocaine and all of that,
[17:21] Speaker 2: like four to five years ago. The damage from twenty
[17:25] Speaker 2: years five years is coming right now. Yeah, so I'm
[17:29] Speaker 2: off everything. I don't do that anymore, but I do
[17:33] Speaker 2: recognize that the damage of all of that is hitting
[17:36] Speaker 2: me now.
[17:38] Speaker 1: Up next, Kai tells me about the day he first
[17:41] Speaker 1: met Elena. Let's go to the year two thousand, when
[17:47] Speaker 1: you met Elena? Who were you then? Was this all happening? Then?
[17:54] Speaker 2: At that time, I was still on my way down.
[17:58] Speaker 2: And by the time I'm met Elena, you know, we
[18:03] Speaker 2: were just hanging out and friends. And then yeah, that's
[18:10] Speaker 2: what happened, and we were together. But you know, I
[18:16] Speaker 2: do know that when we were staying together, I was
[18:21] Speaker 2: still at that point where I was at the nightclubs,
[18:25] Speaker 2: working and taking ten to fifteen twenty pills and coming
[18:30] Speaker 2: home and trying to act straight, right, you know what
[18:34] Speaker 2: I mean?
[18:34] Speaker 1: Yeah, So what do you remember of that relationship. Do
[18:38] Speaker 1: you remember it being a good, healthy relationship?
[18:43] Speaker 2: Well, it was a okay relationship given what I've just said,
[18:50] Speaker 2: you know, because I was still living a lie myself
[18:54] Speaker 2: and I was hiding the fact that I was taking
[18:58] Speaker 2: a lot of drugs and hanging around with a lot
[19:00] Speaker 2: of people. The relationship, from what I can remember, because
[19:04] Speaker 2: it was a long time, was you know, it was
[19:08] Speaker 2: a normal loving relationship, a young people trying to find
[19:13] Speaker 2: their way, and unfortunately, you know, the weight of everything
[19:19] Speaker 2: it had to you know, it had to blow up
[19:24] Speaker 2: in a sense. And that's where it all fell apart,
[19:29] Speaker 2: was because you know, a lot of the drug taking
[19:34] Speaker 2: and that I had never at that point in a
[19:40] Speaker 2: relationship really given how bad it was, threatened her in
[19:46] Speaker 2: a way, I was just normal. She was living with
[19:50] Speaker 2: me and one of my friends, and she moved in
[19:54] Speaker 2: and yeah, and so it kind of like at that
[19:59] Speaker 2: same time the demise was coming really big and fast
[20:04] Speaker 2: for me because of the alcohol and drug taking.
[20:08] Speaker 1: When she broke up with you, she told us that
[20:11] Speaker 1: you kept coming around a lot, and she kind of
[20:15] Speaker 1: witnessed or watched you decline, as you say, she was
[20:19] Speaker 1: watching you getting more and more distressed and upset. Do
[20:22] Speaker 1: you remember that? Is that how you remember that time?
[20:25] Speaker 2: I kind of like blocked a lot of it out.
[20:27] Speaker 2: And there was only when I was just talking to Elena,
[20:30] Speaker 2: you know about the podcast that listening to her, I
[20:35] Speaker 2: was just going, oh, oh my god, please, no, wonder
[20:39] Speaker 2: I blocked this out. You know, I'm such an idiot,
[20:44] Speaker 2: and so, yeah, I really in honesty blocked it out
[20:50] Speaker 2: of my head because you know, it was a reminder
[20:56] Speaker 2: of that time and how she but I was. And
[21:01] Speaker 2: that's a sad thing too, because you know, in hindsight,
[21:07] Speaker 2: looking back at it, you know, Elena went off into
[21:09] Speaker 2: her world, but she was obviously not well from that,
[21:14] Speaker 2: and I was at that time that it happened, I
[21:19] Speaker 2: was trying to save myself and I couldn't even have
[21:23] Speaker 2: the courage to even think about Elena, to be honest,
[21:27] Speaker 2: I was trying to think, how I'm going Am I
[21:29] Speaker 2: going to stay alive? And that sounds probably selfish at
[21:35] Speaker 2: this scene, but it was that was the reality. And
[21:39] Speaker 2: so yeah, well.
[21:40] Speaker 1: Let's talk about the night. What do you remember about
[21:43] Speaker 1: the night you were arrested? About the night everything happened.
[21:47] Speaker 2: I was on drugs again, and I was drinking, which
[21:51] Speaker 2: was even worse. I was drinking and drugs and alcohol
[21:55] Speaker 2: was very bad. And yes, so all I remember was
[22:02] Speaker 2: being at the house and something happened and I got upset.
[22:08] Speaker 2: You know, I was feeling, you know, so down, and
[22:13] Speaker 2: that I think at that time, I kind of like
[22:19] Speaker 2: lost complete control of myself and I felt like just
[22:23] Speaker 2: dying right there or then, or having any excuse to
[22:26] Speaker 2: be to feel that way. So it was almost like
[22:30] Speaker 2: I was I was almost showing myself, tempting myself to
[22:37] Speaker 2: These are opportunities to either kill yourself or do something bad,
[22:42] Speaker 2: so you can get shot by the coppers and it's
[22:44] Speaker 2: a fast way out of here. That's how bad, you know.
[22:49] Speaker 1: So when you grab the knife, were you thinking of
[22:53] Speaker 1: yourself not hurting her?
[22:55] Speaker 2: That's right in my mind. I wasn't, really, you know,
[22:59] Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. That's all I know. I don't remember,
[23:03] Speaker 2: but I do know that I hated myself and that
[23:06] Speaker 2: I would rather kill myself, you know. So I'm not
[23:10] Speaker 2: sure on that night because I maybe had like five
[23:14] Speaker 2: to seven pills and drank cases of beers and bottles
[23:18] Speaker 2: of Jack Daniels was my weekly start the night off.
[23:24] Speaker 1: Do you even do you have any memory of her
[23:27] Speaker 1: that night? Because she was terrified? Can you picture her
[23:29] Speaker 1: face or her reactions?
[23:34] Speaker 2: I I can picture her face and her reactions, and
[23:39] Speaker 2: you know, it's disappointing, you know, it's even to this day,
[23:43] Speaker 2: it is still disappointing. Although my life has changed, although
[23:47] Speaker 2: I have done this, it is disappointing that I did that,
[23:53] Speaker 2: you know, with Elena. You know, of course she would
[23:57] Speaker 2: have been scared, you know, and that I would be enraged,
[24:05] Speaker 2: you know, from everything of the past, or just put
[24:08] Speaker 2: into one, you know, and it's like it's just come
[24:13] Speaker 2: out of me.
[24:14] Speaker 1: You know that night Elena was powerless. You were a
[24:19] Speaker 1: much bigger person than her. She was terrified. What is
[24:25] Speaker 1: that like for you to think about a woman Elena
[24:30] Speaker 1: being in that position where she feels so unsafe and
[24:34] Speaker 1: she can't kind of get away.
[24:37] Speaker 2: Now that you said that, it's like, I'm walking in
[24:41] Speaker 2: back in that moment now, and I realized now that
[24:45] Speaker 2: I locked the doors and trapped her in. I think
[24:50] Speaker 2: I said something along the lines I want to kill myself,
[24:56] Speaker 2: or I may, like I said, have threatened her. I
[25:01] Speaker 2: think her ability to disarm me was a major turning
[25:08] Speaker 2: point of the moment. She was able to do that
[25:12] Speaker 2: because she was trained in martial arts that and it
[25:18] Speaker 2: happened so quick, So in that particular situation, she was
[25:24] Speaker 2: al though vulnerable, also strong mentally enough to do that,
[25:34] Speaker 2: to engage in that. You know what, because I remember
[25:37] Speaker 2: there's a tussle to get the knife. I obviously didn't
[25:42] Speaker 2: win that tussle. She disarmed me so she was brave
[25:48] Speaker 2: enough to use her combat skills to disarm me from
[25:54] Speaker 2: hurting anybody.
[25:57] Speaker 1: But there are so many women who don't win that tussle.
[26:00] Speaker 1: Men are usually physically stronger than women, and we see
[26:03] Speaker 1: time and time again that women are dying. Yeah, is
[26:07] Speaker 1: that a sobering fact for you to understand and realize
[26:10] Speaker 1: that could have happened exactly.
[26:12] Speaker 2: That's why I'm so ashamed. You know, I was probably
[26:19] Speaker 2: in denial about that happening to me, that that could
[26:24] Speaker 2: have happened to me, but you know what it did,
[26:27] Speaker 2: and so on that night, I never dreamed that that
[26:32] Speaker 2: would happen to me. It happened. The reality is that
[26:35] Speaker 2: she was able to disarm me. And if she didn't
[26:38] Speaker 2: disarm me, I probably one thing is I wouldn't be here.
[26:45] Speaker 2: I don't you know, she may have not been here.
[26:48] Speaker 2: The fact is that she was able to do that,
[26:53] Speaker 2: you know, saved both of us.
[26:57] Speaker 1: Do you remember being able to feel remorse for her
[27:00] Speaker 1: in that moment or is that something that's come later.
[27:02] Speaker 2: Yeah, that was not around because I was like gone, okay,
[27:07] Speaker 2: but I do remember something happened and I kind of
[27:10] Speaker 2: like come like dazed off or passed up. And then
[27:14] Speaker 2: I looked up and I could see some blue and
[27:17] Speaker 2: red lights bouncing off the wall, and I went, oh
[27:20] Speaker 2: my god, what the hell? And so I realized, oh
[27:24] Speaker 2: my god, what's happened here? And then I ran to
[27:29] Speaker 2: the other side of the room, and I could see
[27:32] Speaker 2: red and blue lights because we were on the third
[27:34] Speaker 2: floor in a place in Bondai. And I looked down
[27:38] Speaker 2: and I saw so many police cars, and then I
[27:42] Speaker 2: started to add up one and one and then you know,
[27:47] Speaker 2: and then I looked down and I could see all
[27:49] Speaker 2: the police and then I saw a Lana down there,
[27:51] Speaker 2: and I said, oh my god, something's happened. And then
[27:55] Speaker 2: I realized, you know, because of the alcohol, and that
[27:58] Speaker 2: that's something bad, is how thing, And so I had
[28:03] Speaker 2: to talk to them from outside the window to ask them,
[28:09] Speaker 2: you know, please, you know, please put your guns away.
[28:15] Speaker 2: I'm happy for you guys to come up, but you know,
[28:18] Speaker 2: the guy that got killed down the road, That's all
[28:21] Speaker 2: I was thinking, because I was so scared. You know.
[28:24] Speaker 2: After that, it was a traumatic night for Elena and
[28:28] Speaker 2: for both of us, and I am so thankful that
[28:35] Speaker 2: nothing serious happened on that night, but I can understand
[28:40] Speaker 2: the amount of trauma that was caused to Elena and
[28:46] Speaker 2: to her family and to my family as well.
[28:50] Speaker 1: Are you sorry for what you did?
[28:52] Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm really sorry. I'm embarrassed. It's shameful, you know,
[29:03] Speaker 2: because I let a lot of people down, and and
[29:11] Speaker 2: my work and that found out. Everyone found out. So yeah,
[29:18] Speaker 2: I'm really sorry for what happened, and sorry and thankful
[29:26] Speaker 2: that nothing serious serious happened, that it never escalated to
[29:31] Speaker 2: a higher level, you know where where she got hurt
[29:36] Speaker 2: or I got hurt.
[29:38] Speaker 1: I know that she called you and told you that
[29:41] Speaker 1: she was going to be doing this podcast. Is that
[29:43] Speaker 1: the first time you guys had spoken about that night?
[29:46] Speaker 1: How was that for you?
[29:48] Speaker 2: We had never spoken about the incident, the incident in
[29:54] Speaker 2: full detail until she called me, because you know, but
[30:00] Speaker 2: I had seen her many times out and about, you know,
[30:04] Speaker 2: because we're in the same sort of and in those situations.
[30:12] Speaker 2: She had a family and she had moved on, and
[30:16] Speaker 2: I had never been well. I never spoke to her
[30:20] Speaker 2: about it. We just got on with our lives.
[30:23] Speaker 1: So you would have been unaware of the kind of
[30:26] Speaker 1: after effects you experienced the PTSD, the kind of decline
[30:30] Speaker 1: she felt for that year. What was it like hearing
[30:32] Speaker 1: what your actions had done to her in the.
[30:35] Speaker 2: Aftermath embarrassing again, you know, it's really when she explained
[30:40] Speaker 2: it to me, I was, you know, I had my
[30:42] Speaker 2: hands on my head looking down, you know, and I
[30:46] Speaker 2: was happy to talk to her then, and you know,
[30:52] Speaker 2: being here, I wanted to talk about it, you know,
[30:57] Speaker 2: so for for her and for me and for others,
[31:01] Speaker 2: for people to see, you know, how how quickly and
[31:06] Speaker 2: how badly things can go, but where things came from.
[31:10] Speaker 2: And she kind of like you know, protected me to
[31:13] Speaker 2: quite a lot within that sort of framework, if that
[31:17] Speaker 2: makes sense.
[31:18] Speaker 1: You were arrested for what you did to her, and
[31:21] Speaker 1: you went through the court proceedings. What was that like
[31:23] Speaker 1: for you? Do you remember much of that?
[31:28] Speaker 2: Because I was in court so many times then and
[31:34] Speaker 2: even after, it's all molded into one big court case, right,
[31:42] Speaker 2: you know, like I can't, to be honest, remember even
[31:47] Speaker 2: being at the court. Really, yeah, that's how do.
[31:51] Speaker 1: You remember what you were convicted with?
[31:53] Speaker 2: No? I just you know, all I remember is that
[31:57] Speaker 2: I had to speak about that in court in front
[32:01] Speaker 2: of the magistrate, and I did or didn't have a
[32:09] Speaker 2: legal support, you know, I don't even know the finer
[32:13] Speaker 2: details of that.
[32:14] Speaker 1: Do you think you have blocked that out from a
[32:17] Speaker 1: psychological point or because of the drugs and alcohol or combination.
[32:22] Speaker 2: I think it's both, because it was a long time ago.
[32:25] Speaker 2: I was on so many drugs and that I can't
[32:29] Speaker 2: even really weed out which core case was which court case, right,
[32:35] Speaker 2: you know, because they were all very bad.
[32:38] Speaker 1: Did you have a rock bottom? Where? When did all
[32:42] Speaker 1: of this end? This constant drug taking in police and
[32:47] Speaker 1: ending up in cells?
[32:49] Speaker 2: When I guess when I was told the first part
[32:54] Speaker 2: of it was when I was told by the magistrate
[32:58] Speaker 2: to you're never out back into the eastern suburbs for
[33:03] Speaker 2: ten years. Wow. Yeah, he doesn't want to see my
[33:07] Speaker 2: face again and become in front of the court or else,
[33:12] Speaker 2: you know you're looking at you know, data DA. And
[33:16] Speaker 2: it wasn't until so I wasn't allowed back in the east.
[33:21] Speaker 2: So I had a completely different you know, it was like,
[33:25] Speaker 2: well that's where you were out west again, right, and
[33:28] Speaker 2: it's like, all right, what's going out? So then I didn't.
[33:32] Speaker 2: I blocked that whole life out, you know, I blocked
[33:36] Speaker 2: everything out. I wasn't allowed to communicate obviously with Elena
[33:40] Speaker 2: and all the people that I was hanging around with
[33:44] Speaker 2: so it gave me a break to be away from everybody.
[33:49] Speaker 2: And it was only by good fortune that I bumped
[33:52] Speaker 2: into certain people that actually took me in and then
[33:59] Speaker 2: I literally dried out. It went up and down again,
[34:05] Speaker 2: up and down, you know, until there was a moment
[34:11] Speaker 2: where I was in banks down and I rang up
[34:15] Speaker 2: my mum and I told her I'm going to kill
[34:17] Speaker 2: myself in front of this train and I'm ringing to
[34:20] Speaker 2: say goodbye and I'm sorry, and she was screaming and not,
[34:25] Speaker 2: you know, and telling me please don't, don't, don't, don't.
[34:29] Speaker 2: And then I thought right there and then just as
[34:37] Speaker 2: my life zoom to pass, you you know how you
[34:41] Speaker 2: get those things, and this is it, this is it.
[34:44] Speaker 2: You know, you're a fucking bastard. Throw yourself in front
[34:49] Speaker 2: of that train, you fucking piece of shit, you know.
[34:52] Speaker 2: And then there was something stopping me inside, and it
[34:57] Speaker 2: was my mother was talking to me and telling please, please, please,
[35:02] Speaker 2: And then I thought to myself, oh my god, standing
[35:07] Speaker 2: on the station with the phone, looking at the train
[35:11] Speaker 2: and talking to my mum all at one wow. And
[35:14] Speaker 2: that's when I just my head just went down and
[35:19] Speaker 2: said you better pick yourself up now, because everybody's going
[35:24] Speaker 2: to be looking at me like, yeah, that guy, you know.
[35:29] Speaker 2: And from that time I had to then like snap,
[35:34] Speaker 2: snap the fuck out of it, and you know, I
[35:40] Speaker 2: had to go through another level of embarrassment, but it
[35:43] Speaker 2: was a different type. It was, you know, a type
[35:47] Speaker 2: that I knew this time that I could get through
[35:52] Speaker 2: whatever's coming. Now. I just survived all of that. You know,
[35:57] Speaker 2: I could have got killed so many times by drug taking,
[36:00] Speaker 2: by violence, by police, by everything that. You know, I thought,
[36:07] Speaker 2: oh my god, what the fuck is going to look
[36:09] Speaker 2: after my mom? I'm I'm the only one. I promised
[36:13] Speaker 2: her and my dad that I would look after them
[36:15] Speaker 2: till they died. And then they said that when you're
[36:20] Speaker 2: when you finished looking after us and we passed away,
[36:22] Speaker 2: then you can have do your life. You don't have
[36:25] Speaker 2: to be Samolden. You don't even have to do church,
[36:29] Speaker 2: you don't have to do anything. And so I agreed
[36:32] Speaker 2: to that when I was young at that time. So
[36:35] Speaker 2: that's what I remembered, and I went, oh man, it
[36:39] Speaker 2: just hit me and I just went all.
[36:41] Speaker 1: Right, okay, And that was the start.
[36:45] Speaker 2: That was the start. And then I you know, I
[36:50] Speaker 2: told my mom, you know that well, you know, she's
[36:56] Speaker 2: passed away in twenty twenty four, and I looked after
[37:01] Speaker 2: her till she died, and I really thank her and
[37:08] Speaker 2: the many other women that helped me. You know, it's
[37:12] Speaker 2: like Elena in that whole tragedy, she still helped me,
[37:17] Speaker 2: and you know other people, my work, my bosses, they
[37:22] Speaker 2: had to come and get me in jail, and you know, so, yeah,
[37:27] Speaker 2: that was it. And then I had to dry up
[37:30] Speaker 2: for another five years. And then I told myself, as
[37:35] Speaker 2: much as how bad this is right now, as much
[37:39] Speaker 2: as you're feeling this, well, you know, you're going to
[37:44] Speaker 2: have to take it on the chin and take it
[37:50] Speaker 2: day by day and you've got to be a better person,
[37:54] Speaker 2: and that I can be a better person. Even though
[37:57] Speaker 2: I hated myself, you know, all of that throughout my
[38:03] Speaker 2: earlier life before Elena, I just thought that, yeah, I'm
[38:09] Speaker 2: not going out like this. I'm not going out and
[38:12] Speaker 2: I got more to give to the community, into the world,
[38:18] Speaker 2: and I'm going to one get a job and I'm
[38:22] Speaker 2: going to stay in that job. And if I stay
[38:25] Speaker 2: in that job, then things should be better. And then
[38:30] Speaker 2: that's how I just crawled myself out from doing you know,
[38:35] Speaker 2: back to youth works and then my work.
[38:39] Speaker 1: You know, in this second act of your life, has
[38:44] Speaker 1: there been any violence? Have you added to that criminal
[38:47] Speaker 1: record at all? Or is that something that's in the past.
[38:49] Speaker 2: It is definitely in the past, okay, and that Yeah,
[38:56] Speaker 2: some people's say to me, wow, you've got have been
[38:59] Speaker 2: you know of this Biky gang, And I'm thinking, to
[39:03] Speaker 2: my wild if I want to be, But you know,
[39:06] Speaker 2: going back into that, I'm more into helping our people
[39:11] Speaker 2: who are lost between cultures and that try and find
[39:16] Speaker 2: themselves through art making.
[39:18] Speaker 1: Before Elena reached out to you and you had that
[39:20] Speaker 1: big conversation, had you apologized to her, had you reached
[39:24] Speaker 1: out to her?
[39:25] Speaker 2: I think I may have spoken to her once and
[39:30] Speaker 2: apologized to her then, But I definitely I believe I
[39:34] Speaker 2: would have apologized to her back in the day. Yeah,
[39:37] Speaker 2: you know, you know there's shocking.
[39:40] Speaker 1: Do you mean, like, once you sobered up and everything
[39:42] Speaker 1: had died down, you think you reached out back then?
[39:44] Speaker 2: Yeah? I believe I didn't. You know, if I didn't, oh,
[39:49] Speaker 2: then you know.
[39:50] Speaker 1: After the break, why does Kai believe taking responsibility for
[39:54] Speaker 1: his actions?
[39:54] Speaker 2: Now?
[39:55] Speaker 1: After all this time matters? There are not a lot
[39:58] Speaker 1: of men doing this, and yet violence against women is
[40:01] Speaker 1: a crime we're seeing every day. We're seeing women killed
[40:05] Speaker 1: every week in this country. Yeah, why is it so
[40:09] Speaker 1: important for men to speak up to talk about this stuff?
[40:14] Speaker 2: Yeah, because violence against women is a man's problem. It
[40:19] Speaker 2: isn't a women's problem that women have to deal with it.
[40:22] Speaker 2: You know, you've just seen my train wreck. You know,
[40:26] Speaker 2: it was like multiple train wrecks. But given that I
[40:31] Speaker 2: had tried to become, you know, on track to align
[40:38] Speaker 2: myself with what my parents were. They were preachers and
[40:41] Speaker 2: they looked after the big communities. You know, my father
[40:46] Speaker 2: wanted me to be a priest, and that wasn't going
[40:50] Speaker 2: to happen then. But I used the arts and community
[40:54] Speaker 2: to assist people in telling their stories. Men need to
[41:00] Speaker 2: take responsibility about their actions, and if you don't know
[41:06] Speaker 2: how to do it, you need to go and seek help.
[41:11] Speaker 2: And this is the thing about that whole stereotype about men,
[41:17] Speaker 2: that men they don't cry, they don't you know, and
[41:23] Speaker 2: then there's all of these other stereotypes or tropes, you know,
[41:26] Speaker 2: the way men are meant to behave you know, it's
[41:30] Speaker 2: just completely wrong. And we've been conditioned so badly as
[41:36] Speaker 2: men in the modern day and in the past that
[41:40] Speaker 2: we're the leaders, when actual fact, we're not the leaders.
[41:45] Speaker 2: You know, the leaders are the ones that's going to
[41:48] Speaker 2: bear the responsibility of the children. And that's you know.
[41:52] Speaker 2: And as I was saying, you know, I'm an academic
[41:56] Speaker 2: and I'm a historian, and when I read through sift
[42:00] Speaker 2: through our history and I say, hey, this is so wrong.
[42:05] Speaker 2: You know that in what appears in our salmon culture
[42:10] Speaker 2: is that the women, the men are the white of
[42:13] Speaker 2: the eye, and the women is the eye, you know,
[42:16] Speaker 2: And so it's set up that what we call a
[42:19] Speaker 2: fair and anger. And so that's one of the disappointing
[42:23] Speaker 2: things that I can see in that sort of set
[42:27] Speaker 2: up crossover in that it appears that the men are
[42:32] Speaker 2: the leaders, when a natural fact the Samoans had always
[42:36] Speaker 2: known that the leadership roles of chieftainship is so that
[42:42] Speaker 2: the women what we call for it is dirt, that
[42:47] Speaker 2: the women don't get dirty doing them. That role of
[42:52] Speaker 2: the being the chief is lower than the women because
[42:58] Speaker 2: the women are behind them guiding them. So even in
[43:04] Speaker 2: our hierarchy, the women are still higher. So you know,
[43:09] Speaker 2: from from me as a person that has done so
[43:15] Speaker 2: wrong in this area, and now they're looking at it
[43:19] Speaker 2: from his historical and it's like it's almost consolidating that
[43:30] Speaker 2: hierarchy that the men are up here and the women
[43:33] Speaker 2: are down there. It can come again feel like that,
[43:37] Speaker 2: especially in you know, if you look at a hierarchical
[43:41] Speaker 2: system that the men are chiefs, that means most people go, hey,
[43:45] Speaker 2: the men are the chiefs, they're the leaders, you know.
[43:47] Speaker 2: But then actual fact, our system that's for the men
[43:52] Speaker 2: have to do that work because the women they're too
[43:56] Speaker 2: busy doing all the real things. And another example in
[44:00] Speaker 2: our true culture and some more, the women don't even
[44:05] Speaker 2: do the cooking. The men do the cooking, you know,
[44:08] Speaker 2: they go have to go out into the bush and everything.
[44:11] Speaker 2: So so what I'm saying is that, you know, there
[44:14] Speaker 2: is cultural presidents that you know, we should be making
[44:21] Speaker 2: more time to re look at ourselves, relook at our
[44:25] Speaker 2: systems and see what's going right and what's going wrong.
[44:30] Speaker 1: You know, yeah, because I'm like, well, then, why why
[44:33] Speaker 1: are so many men so violent towards women? Like you've
[44:37] Speaker 1: just given us a great example of you know, in
[44:40] Speaker 1: your culture, women are supposed to be the highest of high.
[44:44] Speaker 2: And want to be powerful, you know, they want to
[44:47] Speaker 2: be in control, and yeah, I don't think they're actually
[44:53] Speaker 2: built for leadership, you know, when you really look at
[44:58] Speaker 2: what I'm saying that and now everything's made man. There
[45:04] Speaker 2: are a lot of cultures that women are there, you know,
[45:07] Speaker 2: and when you look at those cultures, Yeah, So I
[45:10] Speaker 2: couldn't answer all of the questions about why men are
[45:14] Speaker 2: like that, but I definitely know that men need to
[45:18] Speaker 2: listen more and that they need to break the stereotype
[45:23] Speaker 2: of you know, like I had is, if I showed
[45:28] Speaker 2: any sort of femininity in my youth, my brothers will
[45:33] Speaker 2: smash it out of me.
[45:34] Speaker 1: So how do we how do we change this? How
[45:36] Speaker 1: do we turn and influence young boys into being good,
[45:41] Speaker 1: nonviolent men. I know that's a huge question, huge, like
[45:45] Speaker 1: what would have helped you as a young man? Yeah,
[45:49] Speaker 1: what did you What do you think would have helped you?
[45:52] Speaker 2: Because it was all hidden away. I couldn't even go
[45:56] Speaker 2: and tell my mum what was happening to me because
[45:59] Speaker 2: then I was scared, you know. So acts of violence
[46:03] Speaker 2: was you know, always, you know, And I even had
[46:09] Speaker 2: an academic, some of an academic say to me, oh,
[46:13] Speaker 2: get over it. You know, you think that was bad.
[46:17] Speaker 2: I had it worse. You know, and I'm thinking to myself,
[46:20] Speaker 2: get why don't you get over it just by telling
[46:22] Speaker 2: me you had it worse, and that I'm trying to
[46:24] Speaker 2: tell you, you know, how young men were behaving so badly,
[46:30] Speaker 2: and that you know, that's not being said, you know,
[46:36] Speaker 2: and that's why it happens, because things aren't being said
[46:41] Speaker 2: at the right place, at the right time, and by
[46:44] Speaker 2: the right people. So the conversations, more podcasts, more men
[46:50] Speaker 2: coming out and talking about it is where we need
[46:54] Speaker 2: to go, because we need to talk. So I believe
[46:57] Speaker 2: that the churches need to pull their socks up. I
[47:02] Speaker 2: believe the youth workers and that are continuing to do
[47:06] Speaker 2: their jobs. I believe that more more adults should be
[47:15] Speaker 2: trained to teach kids about about you know, growing up,
[47:20] Speaker 2: and about women and how to treat women properly, and
[47:24] Speaker 2: how to deal with your emotions as you're traveling through
[47:31] Speaker 2: time and or else. These things are unchecked and they
[47:37] Speaker 2: can go like grass will grow wild and continue like
[47:42] Speaker 2: grass to be there. Sorry to use grass as a
[47:46] Speaker 2: bad no, it's.
[47:47] Speaker 1: A good analogy, because you're right. It just runs, it runs.
[47:50] Speaker 2: Rapid, it just continues to be I want people to
[47:55] Speaker 2: know that men, you're not alone, even men, and that
[48:04] Speaker 2: you know, we should be talking more about it and
[48:08] Speaker 2: it shouldn't be taboo.
[48:10] Speaker 1: You know. What has it been like revisiting the crimes
[48:14] Speaker 1: against Elena, thinking about men's violence, like living in this
[48:17] Speaker 1: space in preparation for this chat.
[48:21] Speaker 2: Yeah, I it was really hard for me, But it
[48:27] Speaker 2: wasn't you know, because all the stuff that is was
[48:32] Speaker 2: more self conscious, you know, and it kind of like
[48:37] Speaker 2: defeated the purpose of you know, if I wasn't going
[48:40] Speaker 2: to come and talk about it, So I thought, nah,
[48:45] Speaker 2: I want to do Yeah, I'm on the trajectory of
[48:48] Speaker 2: doing good anyway. So if I can be of any
[48:51] Speaker 2: use to anybody, if my voice or my story can
[48:56] Speaker 2: help heal somebody, educate somebody, you know that you're better
[49:03] Speaker 2: than that, And that's what I think. People have a
[49:08] Speaker 2: low self esteem of themselves that do that, and so
[49:12] Speaker 2: if I can reassure them that that's not the real
[49:17] Speaker 2: you that you're meant to be, then I think that's
[49:21] Speaker 2: really a good thing.
[49:23] Speaker 1: Elena will be listening to this. Is there anything you
[49:26] Speaker 1: want to say to her?
[49:27] Speaker 2: Just in case I haven't said sorry or made it
[49:30] Speaker 2: very clear. Yeah, I feel ashamed still, I feel sad,
[49:40] Speaker 2: but I thank god in a way that nothing happened,
[49:44] Speaker 2: and that the kindness that she showed me helped me
[49:50] Speaker 2: during it and after, and she was part of my
[49:54] Speaker 2: healing as well, because you know, it could have been worse.
[50:00] Speaker 2: She could have just taken complete offense, but she had
[50:04] Speaker 2: that inside her. I think she kind of like knew
[50:09] Speaker 2: that I was a better person than that, and at
[50:12] Speaker 2: that time I didn't think I was, and so she
[50:19] Speaker 2: helped me through it to buy time for me to
[50:23] Speaker 2: find myself. And that I'm very thankful for that, or
[50:30] Speaker 2: else I could have been on a different trajectory right
[50:32] Speaker 2: now and things wouldn't have been good for me. So
[50:37] Speaker 2: I'm very thankful, and I'm proud of her that, you know,
[50:42] Speaker 2: the work that she's been doing and in the space
[50:46] Speaker 2: of trauma to help other people. She shown to me kindness.
[50:51] Speaker 2: After all, at the end of the day.
[50:55] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here, thank you for
[50:57] Speaker 1: telling your story.
[50:58] Speaker 2: That's okay, I'm really you know, I'll do more in
[51:03] Speaker 2: my capability to you know, help our people and young men,
[51:09] Speaker 2: you know, become better people, you know, so they don't
[51:13] Speaker 2: go into this because I don't think most people would
[51:17] Speaker 2: have survived what I went through.
[51:21] Speaker 1: Thank you to Elena and Kai for their honesty, courage,
[51:25] Speaker 1: and willingness to take part in this episode. This is
[51:28] Speaker 1: the first time we've told a story like this in
[51:30] Speaker 1: this way on our podcast. We're especially grateful to Elena
[51:34] Speaker 1: for reaching out to us, trusting us with her story,
[51:37] Speaker 1: and giving us the opportunity to speak with Kai. We
[51:40] Speaker 1: hope this episode has made an impact, showing the power
[51:43] Speaker 1: of accountability, the lasting impact of violence, and the importance
[51:47] Speaker 1: of having open, honest conversations about men's violence against women.
[51:53] Speaker 1: I'll be back next week with another true crime conversation

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