# The Three Mums Who Teamed Up To Solve Their Children’s Crimes

An episode of [True Crime Conversations](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1469153910), 10 Jun 2026, 1 h 05 min.

Audio: https://traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/3ea926be-9be7-482a-8ac3-a44f016e43d1/abaa347e-8ac5-454e-85f9-aa64005c285f/34aa1b82-abff-4056-8c4c-b465004d6a11/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=6d9fdc19-147e-4f77-8d3f-aa64005e5923

When three adult children vanish or turn up murdered back-to-back in Bakersfield, California, their heartbroken mothers refuse to wait for answers. Banding together to form a fierce, unstoppable sisterhood, they launch their own rogue investigation, uncovering a dark underworld of ghost guns, addiction, and fraud. But just as their amateur detective work forces a breakthrough, a devastating plot twist blindsides the community: one of the missing victims is suddenly charged with her own friend's brutal murder. Journalist Olivia LaVoice joins the podcast to unpack the emotional, chaotic, and utterly baffling reality of the Bakersfield Three. LINKS Listen to The Bakersfield Three podcast here. If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636. Support independent women’s media and get our biggest offer of the year. Subscribe here for 30% off your annual Mamamia subscription. Code applied at the checkout. Offer ends June 30. GET IN TOUCH Follow us on Instagram and TikTok @truecrimeconversations Want us to cover a case on the podcast? Email us at truecrime@mamamia.com.au or send us a voice note. Make sure to leave us a rating and review on Apple & Spotify to let us know how you're liking the episodes. CREDITS Guest: Olivia LaVoice Host: Gemma Bath Senior Producer: Tahli Blackman Group Executive Producer: Ilaria Brophy Video Editor: Julian Rosario Audio Designer: Tegan Salder Mamamia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we have recorded this podcast. Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:01] Speaker 1: It's May twenty eighteen, and Jane parent is desperately trying
[0:05] Speaker 1: to find her daughter. Bailey Despot, has been missing since
[0:09] Speaker 1: late April in their hometown of Bakersfield, California. The twenty
[0:14] Speaker 1: one year old had been living at her boyfriend Matthew
[0:16] Speaker 1: Queen's house. It's belief the last time she was seen
[0:19] Speaker 1: was outside his property. Jane has been plastering the city
[0:23] Speaker 1: with fliers of her daughter's face, but no one has
[0:27] Speaker 1: seen the beautiful young woman with the piercing green eyes
[0:29] Speaker 1: and long brown hair. Across town, another mother is desperately
[0:34] Speaker 1: searching her son, Micah Holsenbake, went missing one month before Bailey.
[0:40] Speaker 1: As their parents will soon discover, the pair knew each other.
[0:44] Speaker 2: But that's not all.
[0:45] Speaker 1: There's a third victim, and this man has been murdered
[0:49] Speaker 1: right in between Micah and Bailey's disappearances. It's not long
[0:54] Speaker 1: before James's mother joins the other two mums, and together
[0:57] Speaker 1: they start to investigate what happened. They ask to the
[1:02] Speaker 1: Bakersfield Three, I'm Jemma Bath and you're listening to True
[1:10] Speaker 1: Crime Conversations, a podcast exploring the world's most notorious crimes
[1:14] Speaker 1: by speaking to the people who know the most about them.
[1:18] Speaker 1: No one wants to be the mother of a murdered child.
[1:22] Speaker 1: No one wants to be the mother of a missing child.
[1:25] Speaker 1: But in twenty eighteen, Jane parent die Burn and Cheryl
[1:30] Speaker 1: Holsenbak were part of the same club. They were all
[1:33] Speaker 1: grieving and desperately searching for answers in their adult children's cases.
[1:39] Speaker 1: Doing those two things together as a team, they forged
[1:43] Speaker 1: an unbreakable bond, a fierce sisterhood that saw them proudly
[1:48] Speaker 1: claim the rallying cry fight like a mother. Not only
[1:53] Speaker 1: did these women give the local detectives and journalists a
[1:56] Speaker 1: run for their money with their investigative skills as they
[1:59] Speaker 1: pieced together their children's last movements and last interactions, but
[2:03] Speaker 1: they also turned their tragedy into advocacy. Amongst their search
[2:07] Speaker 1: for answers, they raised tens of thousands of dollars for
[2:11] Speaker 1: crime solving programs. They met with local government officials to
[2:15] Speaker 1: advocate for more funding for investigations, better technology, stronger coordination
[2:20] Speaker 1: between agencies, and reforms to public safety systems, all issues
[2:25] Speaker 1: they'd come across while playing detective. Not only that, they
[2:29] Speaker 1: also found the time to lend their support and love
[2:32] Speaker 1: to other Bakersfield families trying to navigate the justice system.
[2:36] Speaker 1: Quite frankly, these women were and are incredible. Their fierce determination, strength,
[2:44] Speaker 1: love for their children, and unconditional friendship is to be admired. Alone.
[2:50] Speaker 1: They admit they might have crumbled into their grief, but
[2:53] Speaker 1: together they were unstoppable. Tragically, Diane Byrne, mother of James,
[2:58] Speaker 1: isn't with us anymore. She died from ovarian cancer in
[3:02] Speaker 1: twenty twenty four.
[3:04] Speaker 3: Reporter Olivia Lavoyce.
[3:05] Speaker 1: Covered the many twists and turns in these three overlapping
[3:08] Speaker 1: cases alongside the mums. Her podcast, The Bakersfield Three tells
[3:13] Speaker 1: their story in detail. Olivia joins us Now, Olivia, thank
[3:24] Speaker 1: you for joining us on true crime conversations. You know Bakersfield, Well,
[3:30] Speaker 1: you've lived there, you've worked there. For those of us
[3:33] Speaker 1: who've never been there, what's it like? What's Bakersfield like
[3:37] Speaker 1: as a place.
[3:38] Speaker 2: So, Bakersfield is a city in California, But I think
[3:42] Speaker 2: a lot of people who've never been when they hear California,
[3:47] Speaker 2: they're envisioning beaches and Hollywood. Bakersfield is not that at all.
[3:55] Speaker 2: Bakersfield is in the middle of the Steeds and it's
[3:58] Speaker 2: quite rural. It has a small town feel, even though
[4:04] Speaker 2: it's not a small town. It's a relatively large city, Bakersfield.
[4:12] Speaker 2: Unfortunately for the people who live there, Bakersfield is plagued
[4:15] Speaker 2: with a lot of issues, a high crime rate being
[4:20] Speaker 2: at the top of the list. And I mean to
[4:23] Speaker 2: be frank, most people in the state of California who
[4:28] Speaker 2: do not live in Bakersfield, they don't consider it a
[4:32] Speaker 2: nice place. It has a bit of a rough reputation.
[4:37] Speaker 1: If you will, I want to start with Bailey Despot.
[4:40] Speaker 1: Can you tell us a bit about who she was
[4:43] Speaker 1: and when she went missing?
[4:45] Speaker 2: Yes, So, Bailey was twenty years old when she went
[4:49] Speaker 2: missing in April twenty eighteen. And Bailey, like most of
[4:56] Speaker 2: the people involved in this case, was someone who had
[5:02] Speaker 2: a great upbringing. She had so many things going for her,
[5:08] Speaker 2: and unfortunately, there were some tragic circumstances in her life
[5:13] Speaker 2: that ultimately led to her going down what you would call,
[5:19] Speaker 2: you know, the wrong path and ultimately put her in
[5:24] Speaker 2: the crosshairs of some of the players in this case
[5:29] Speaker 2: that you know, aren't the type of people you'd think
[5:34] Speaker 2: someone like Bailey would have been around.
[5:36] Speaker 1: Tell me about how you first, because Bailey was your
[5:39] Speaker 1: inn into this story, wasn't it? And you were kind
[5:41] Speaker 1: of in a courthouse flicking through documents, and she was
[5:44] Speaker 1: your way into this story. Tell me about how that
[5:46] Speaker 1: kind of unfiled.
[5:48] Speaker 2: So I was doing something I routinely did at the courthouse,
[5:53] Speaker 2: which was go through publicly filed search warrants, and I
[5:58] Speaker 2: came across a search warrant about man who basically was
[6:02] Speaker 2: being investigated for having a gun when he legally was
[6:07] Speaker 2: not supposed to. And there was just one line in
[6:10] Speaker 2: that search warrant that really stood out to me, which
[6:13] Speaker 2: was that this individual was living with a woman at
[6:18] Speaker 2: the time of her disappearance. And so I read that
[6:23] Speaker 2: it was just it was so fascinating to me because
[6:25] Speaker 2: it really wasn't relevant to the guns, it seemed at
[6:31] Speaker 2: first glance, and it was so vague but yet so
[6:37] Speaker 2: huge at the same time. And so that all it
[6:42] Speaker 2: said was he was living with a woman at the
[6:44] Speaker 2: time of her disappearance, something along those lines. So I
[6:48] Speaker 2: was like, Okay, I have to know who this woman is.
[6:50] Speaker 2: I have to know more. And that woman was, of
[6:53] Speaker 2: course Bailey.
[6:54] Speaker 1: Despot, and that man was Matthew Quaine. Tell us a
[6:59] Speaker 1: bit about him because they were boyfriend and girlfriend.
[7:01] Speaker 3: Who was he?
[7:03] Speaker 2: So Matthew Queen also a very interesting individual in terms
[7:11] Speaker 2: of from the outside he looked he looked like he
[7:15] Speaker 2: really had it all together. He had a good job,
[7:20] Speaker 2: good career as an electrician. He owned a nice home
[7:25] Speaker 2: in a nice neighborhood. He was married with children. However,
[7:32] Speaker 2: he also was in a relationship with Bailey, who was
[7:36] Speaker 2: half his age. And what you know his friends and
[7:42] Speaker 2: colleagues weren't seeing was Matthew Queen appeared to have an
[7:48] Speaker 2: interest in guns, and you know, his law enforcement would
[7:54] Speaker 2: go on to say they believed he had an interest
[7:56] Speaker 2: in building guns high power to salt rifles that are illegal,
[8:03] Speaker 2: and that he was also they believed dabbling in drugs.
[8:09] Speaker 1: Right, Okay, So let's pause on Matthew and Bailey and
[8:14] Speaker 1: bring in Micah here. He was another missing person within
[8:18] Speaker 1: a month of Bailey. Who was he and what were
[8:20] Speaker 1: the circumstances around his disappearance.
[8:23] Speaker 2: So when I first started looking into the case, I'm
[8:26] Speaker 2: looking at it just through the lens of Bailey's disappearance,
[8:29] Speaker 2: and then I quickly find out that she was friends
[8:33] Speaker 2: with Michael holsoen Bak and that he had gone missing
[8:37] Speaker 2: almost exactly one month before she had And Micah was
[8:42] Speaker 2: someone who really had created an amazing life for himself,
[8:50] Speaker 2: a really successful career as a financial advisor, you know,
[8:56] Speaker 2: a wife, he had a child, and then he he
[9:01] Speaker 2: had surgery that resulted in him being prescribed pain medication
[9:06] Speaker 2: that he ultimately became addicted to and slowly but surely
[9:11] Speaker 2: it completely derailed his life. So at the time of
[9:15] Speaker 2: his disappearance, he was involved in drugs and also hanging
[9:21] Speaker 2: out with some shady characters who you know, I actually
[9:24] Speaker 2: interviewed some of them, some of the shady characters who
[9:27] Speaker 2: would tell me, you know, Micah so did not fit in.
[9:30] Speaker 2: We were like, why is this guy hanging out with us?
[9:34] Speaker 2: Like he clearly is cut from a different cloth, you know,
[9:37] Speaker 2: he doesn't seem like someone who would be hanging out
[9:39] Speaker 2: with drug addicts, you know, in a garage somewhere. Unfortunately,
[9:45] Speaker 2: that is where you know, Micah ended up. And that
[9:48] Speaker 2: is a reoccurring theme that you see in the podcast,
[9:52] Speaker 2: whether it's with the victims as well as suspects, where
[9:57] Speaker 2: these people really all you know, so had it together
[10:01] Speaker 2: and through circumstances, you know, none of them set out
[10:06] Speaker 2: to start you you know, to become drug addicts. It really,
[10:12] Speaker 2: you know, it's what we see so much here in America,
[10:15] Speaker 2: especially with the opioid crisis, you know, with it starts
[10:19] Speaker 2: with the prescription for a legitimate medical reason and you know,
[10:23] Speaker 2: ends in addictions.
[10:25] Speaker 1: And it is a really good reminder that you could
[10:28] Speaker 1: grow up in the most amazing home, but you know,
[10:32] Speaker 1: a few wrong turns and this is where you end up.
[10:34] Speaker 1: And this is like, I think, where the mums come in,
[10:36] Speaker 1: because these mums that we're about to tell you about
[10:41] Speaker 1: are so loving and warm and kind and nurturing to
[10:44] Speaker 1: their kids. How did Marca and Bailey's moms first connect.
[10:50] Speaker 2: Bailey's mom, Jane and Micah's mom, Cheryl first connected because
[10:58] Speaker 2: Cheryl and her husband are essentially doing their own investigation
[11:03] Speaker 2: into trying to find Micah, and they had heard Bailey's
[11:08] Speaker 2: name before. They knew that Bailey was someone that Micah
[11:13] Speaker 2: you know, had hung around with. And one day, when
[11:17] Speaker 2: they're just sort of driving around passing out their own
[11:21] Speaker 2: missing flyers for Micah, they see a missing flyer for
[11:25] Speaker 2: Bailey and they make that connection and think, Okay, this
[11:30] Speaker 2: is really weird. So they then reached out to Bailey's mom, Jane,
[11:36] Speaker 2: and then from there, so you have Bailey's mom and
[11:39] Speaker 2: Micah's mom connected, and then you have a third mom
[11:46] Speaker 2: and a third victim, James Colstead, who knew both. James
[11:53] Speaker 2: knew both Bailey and Micah, but he was really more
[11:55] Speaker 2: Micah's friend. And James was shot to death about two
[12:02] Speaker 2: weeks after Micah went missing and about two weeks before
[12:09] Speaker 2: Bailey went missing. So this series of events was you
[12:12] Speaker 2: have Micah goes missing in end of March twenty eighteen
[12:17] Speaker 2: mid April, James is shot to death outside of the
[12:21] Speaker 2: home of a local chiropractor, and then two weeks after
[12:25] Speaker 2: that you have Bailey go missing. And so the three
[12:31] Speaker 2: moms realized, okay, our three children knew each other, and
[12:36] Speaker 2: their disappearances and murder happened essentially back to back. You know,
[12:41] Speaker 2: is it possible that this really is a coincidence or
[12:45] Speaker 2: is there a connection here?
[12:47] Speaker 1: You've got those moms in one room together. What was
[12:51] Speaker 1: it like kind of facilitating that and kind of seeing
[12:56] Speaker 1: them form It's almost like a task for so police
[12:59] Speaker 1: task full in what they kind of went out to
[13:02] Speaker 1: do in their investigation. What was it like to be
[13:04] Speaker 1: there to witness those three moms being together.
[13:07] Speaker 2: It was really really powerful, almost overwhelming in a way
[13:14] Speaker 2: because they just there is such an intensity there. But
[13:22] Speaker 2: at the same time, these three women are I always
[13:25] Speaker 2: say like they are the very definition of a mother.
[13:29] Speaker 2: They're so all three of them are so maternal and
[13:32] Speaker 2: fiercely protective, and you know, I kind of think that
[13:36] Speaker 2: that's what made them so good at this because no
[13:40] Speaker 2: one's going to you know, no one's going to work
[13:43] Speaker 2: harder than a mom, you know, when it comes to
[13:47] Speaker 2: protecting their child, right, So it was it was amazing.
[13:54] Speaker 2: But yeah, they you know, I think we had that
[13:57] Speaker 2: first meeting and it was me maybe less than a
[14:01] Speaker 2: week later that you know, they'd show up to my
[14:04] Speaker 2: news station and have like binders of information that the
[14:08] Speaker 2: three of them had compiled together. So yeah, I was
[14:12] Speaker 2: it was intense, but in a good way.
[14:15] Speaker 1: Can you tell us a bit more about that dynamic,
[14:17] Speaker 1: because each one of these women had a very specific
[14:19] Speaker 1: skill set that they kind of brought to the team.
[14:22] Speaker 1: You had one on the phones, you had one on
[14:24] Speaker 1: the kind of organization. Can you tell us a bit
[14:26] Speaker 1: about who they were in and amongst all of this.
[14:30] Speaker 2: Yes, So Micah's mother, Cheryl, she is like an organization queen.
[14:37] Speaker 2: She was the one who was really good at making
[14:41] Speaker 2: sure all the information was put into spreadsheets and diagrams,
[14:48] Speaker 2: and you know, she was kind of their computer with
[14:50] Speaker 2: as well. Then you have Diane or Die as everyone
[14:57] Speaker 2: calls her, James's mother who die Die was the one
[15:05] Speaker 2: who was very good at scheduling meetings with just about
[15:11] Speaker 2: everyone you could think of law enforcement, city council members.
[15:16] Speaker 2: She was very good at sort of being the face
[15:22] Speaker 2: of the three moms and their mission. And then you
[15:26] Speaker 2: have Bailey's mom, Jane, who is the one who wants
[15:30] Speaker 2: to pound the pavement all day and night. She will
[15:34] Speaker 2: literally spend twelve hours straight taping up missing flyers without
[15:40] Speaker 2: you know, without taking a water break, and she doesn't
[15:44] Speaker 2: think twice about it. She also, Jane is also someone
[15:48] Speaker 2: who will not take no for an answer. She's pushy,
[15:53] Speaker 2: but in the best way. So, you know, the three
[15:56] Speaker 2: of them really they were such an amazing team because
[16:01] Speaker 2: of you know, their unique strengths and whatnot. And they
[16:06] Speaker 2: also would always say that they would take turns supporting
[16:10] Speaker 2: each other like they would take turns. You know, one day,
[16:13] Speaker 2: Jane would say, Okay, I'm really struggling today, I feel
[16:17] Speaker 2: like I can't get out of bed. And you know,
[16:20] Speaker 2: then it would be Cheryl and die who would help
[16:23] Speaker 2: support her and you know, sort of pick up the
[16:26] Speaker 2: slack for her, if you will, and they would all
[16:29] Speaker 2: alternate doing that, you know, taking care of each other.
[16:34] Speaker 2: And so it was amazing because they had this common
[16:39] Speaker 2: goal of finding answers of what happened to their children,
[16:41] Speaker 2: but they also are helping support each other through such
[16:46] Speaker 2: a horrific, complicated process of grieving, but grieving without answers
[16:54] Speaker 2: and you know, just really complex stuff.
[16:58] Speaker 1: One of the lines the one of the mothers say
[17:01] Speaker 1: was if we were by ourselves, we couldn't hold ourselves
[17:05] Speaker 1: together long enough to do this.
[17:07] Speaker 3: So it's I think that was really.
[17:09] Speaker 1: Poignant because it shows that, you know, alone they might
[17:12] Speaker 1: have fallen apart, but together they had this kind of camaraderie,
[17:15] Speaker 1: this friendship, this kind of sole purpose that made them
[17:18] Speaker 1: so powerful.
[17:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, I absolutely believe that.
[17:23] Speaker 1: Where did you come into this? Were you kind of
[17:26] Speaker 1: reporting stories as you as they helped you find them?
[17:29] Speaker 1: Were you steering them in the right direction? Because the
[17:34] Speaker 1: two missing people and James's case, they were kind of
[17:37] Speaker 1: playing out in the news headlines at the time, weren't they.
[17:41] Speaker 2: So, you know, it's funny. I always say that the
[17:44] Speaker 2: moms give me way too much credit for my work
[17:50] Speaker 2: on the case. I also always say they really didn't
[17:55] Speaker 2: need me, you know, they were they could do any
[18:00] Speaker 2: investigating I could do, they could do ten times more,
[18:05] Speaker 2: and just yeah, they totally didn't need me. That being said,
[18:11] Speaker 2: I was dedicated to covering every development on the case.
[18:17] Speaker 2: And you know, in local news that can be a
[18:20] Speaker 2: challenge when you know you want to keep a case alive,
[18:24] Speaker 2: you want to keep the story out there, but sometimes
[18:26] Speaker 2: they're just there are no developments, and unfortunately, you know,
[18:31] Speaker 2: the powers that be, they're not going to let you
[18:34] Speaker 2: put a story on air if there's nothing new to report, right,
[18:39] Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I got lucky with this case in
[18:44] Speaker 2: the sense that it seemed like there was always another development,
[18:49] Speaker 2: another twist and turn. So I was reporting on it
[18:54] Speaker 2: much more consistently than most of my other cases because
[18:59] Speaker 2: of so I'm trying to remember exactly how long it
[19:03] Speaker 2: was that I was reporting on it in local news.
[19:09] Speaker 2: About a year and a half, I want to say.
[19:13] Speaker 2: And then after I left local news, I stayed in
[19:18] Speaker 2: touch with the moms and continued you know, following the
[19:21] Speaker 2: case and whatnot, and I always knew that I wanted
[19:25] Speaker 2: to tell the story in a way that was in
[19:29] Speaker 2: a way that I felt like would do the story
[19:32] Speaker 2: justice and local news. I love it. I'm so grateful
[19:37] Speaker 2: for my time there. But the stories are like two
[19:40] Speaker 2: minutes long. For this story, I'm like, Okay, I need
[19:44] Speaker 2: a podcast, and I need it to be it's going
[19:47] Speaker 2: to be long. It's not going to be a short one.
[19:49] Speaker 1: I want to kind of help listeners understand. You did
[19:52] Speaker 1: touch on the fact that all three of these payopal
[19:55] Speaker 1: the kids in this scenario were starting to go down
[19:58] Speaker 1: quite doc paths. So we had kind of MICA's mental
[20:02] Speaker 1: health that really deteriorated before he went missing. We had
[20:06] Speaker 1: James that had lived through the mother of his child
[20:09] Speaker 1: dying addiction, and then we have Bailey who survived a
[20:13] Speaker 1: rape and she had a miscarriage an overdose, Like these
[20:16] Speaker 1: are all really serious things that are happening in these
[20:20] Speaker 1: people's lives. I want to focus in on James for
[20:24] Speaker 1: a moment because this is where it starts to get
[20:27] Speaker 1: quite criminal. He was actually cashing fraudulent checks, wasn't he.
[20:31] Speaker 2: Yes, this was a whole area of crime that I
[20:35] Speaker 2: really didn't understand. And it's funny because when I was
[20:39] Speaker 2: making the podcast, I was interviewing someone who was involved
[20:43] Speaker 2: in this male check fraud with James, and he was
[20:48] Speaker 2: explaining it to me, and he could tell that I
[20:50] Speaker 2: didn't really understand it, and he was sort of like,
[20:53] Speaker 2: aren't you a crime reporter? And I'm like, yes, I am,
[20:56] Speaker 2: but not this type of crime. This is yeah, this
[21:01] Speaker 2: was not my area of xy. Yes, exactly white collar
[21:07] Speaker 2: and in a way so simple but surprisingly efficient. Apparently
[21:12] Speaker 2: it was just they would just go around robbing people's
[21:16] Speaker 2: mailboxes and would you know, I guess pretty often find
[21:22] Speaker 2: checks in people's mailboxes and using the chiro. So this
[21:29] Speaker 2: is where the chiropractor comes into play. The chiropractor owned
[21:33] Speaker 2: his own business and therefore had a business bank account,
[21:38] Speaker 2: and I guess it was much easier for these fraud
[21:42] Speaker 2: for these checks, the stolen checks to be cashed through
[21:47] Speaker 2: the chiropractor's business account, and so James and others would
[21:54] Speaker 2: bring the stolen checks to the chiropractor have him cash them,
[21:59] Speaker 2: and then they would had split split that money fifty
[22:03] Speaker 2: to fifty. And so the night that James was murdered,
[22:09] Speaker 2: you know, the story that I was always told was
[22:11] Speaker 2: he went to the chiropractor's house because there was some
[22:15] Speaker 2: sort of dispute about one of these checks, though the
[22:19] Speaker 2: chiropractor ultimately denied that. So yes, so the checks. And
[22:26] Speaker 2: then the other crime that plays a big role in
[22:30] Speaker 2: this case was the manufacturing of illegal firearms.
[22:37] Speaker 1: After the break, Olivia tells me about the ghost gun
[22:39] Speaker 1: ring that two of the Bikersfield three were involved in.
[22:43] Speaker 2: Basically, they called them ghost guns and they would build these.
[22:50] Speaker 2: They were just these really intense guns that had no
[22:56] Speaker 2: tracking numbers on them, so that's what made them. You know,
[23:01] Speaker 2: they were illegal for being high power assault rifles if
[23:05] Speaker 2: I remember correctally, as well as having no serial numbers,
[23:11] Speaker 2: which is where the terminology ghost guns comes into place.
[23:15] Speaker 2: And so these guns were really made for people. They're
[23:18] Speaker 2: made for people who could not buy guns legally, and
[23:24] Speaker 2: also people who wanted to use guns without having to
[23:27] Speaker 2: worry about, you know, there being a serial number that
[23:30] Speaker 2: law enforcement could trace back to. You know, oh, Bob
[23:34] Speaker 2: Smith bought this gun, you know, on this date at
[23:37] Speaker 2: this store type of thing.
[23:39] Speaker 1: So how did Maca and Bailey even get kind of
[23:42] Speaker 1: wrapped up in that? Because we've got James with the
[23:44] Speaker 1: Foger Chicks, and then it's Macro and Bailey that are
[23:46] Speaker 1: involved in this kind of gun operation.
[23:48] Speaker 2: With James as well as Mica and Bailey, it seems
[23:52] Speaker 2: like it really all boils down to addiction, and you know,
[23:58] Speaker 2: they began doing these things in order to get money
[24:03] Speaker 2: for drugs. Bailey's involvement with the ghost guns, as far
[24:09] Speaker 2: as I could tell, especially initially, was just that, you know,
[24:12] Speaker 2: she was dating and living with Matthew Queen, who, you know,
[24:16] Speaker 2: despite having a career, a successful career as an electrician.
[24:22] Speaker 2: You know, police said that he had this hobby, if
[24:27] Speaker 2: you will, of building these high powered assault rifles, the
[24:32] Speaker 2: ghost guns, and yeah, you know, I never I never
[24:37] Speaker 2: got as much clarity on this aspect of it as
[24:41] Speaker 2: I would have liked, because, you know, some of the
[24:44] Speaker 2: people that I interviewed that were building these guns like
[24:47] Speaker 2: this was like their this was their job, so to speak,
[24:51] Speaker 2: This was how they were making a living. Matt Queen
[24:56] Speaker 2: had an actual real job. He certainly didn't need to
[24:59] Speaker 2: be involved often illegal firearms in order to pay his mortgage.
[25:04] Speaker 2: So I don't know, it's just kind of an interesting,
[25:09] Speaker 2: odd part of the case.
[25:11] Speaker 1: I'm going to bring us now to kind of a
[25:13] Speaker 1: big breakthrough in the case, which was two body parts
[25:16] Speaker 1: being found kind of two months apart, an arm and
[25:20] Speaker 1: a leg in two different waterways in Bakersfield. When that
[25:23] Speaker 1: news started coming through, what were the mum's reactions because
[25:27] Speaker 1: they've obviously spent months on this investigation searching and then
[25:30] Speaker 1: suddenly body parts turn up.
[25:32] Speaker 2: It was so difficult for the moms when first the
[25:40] Speaker 2: leg was found at a popular lake, and then about
[25:43] Speaker 2: a month later a group of boys found a bag
[25:49] Speaker 2: in the river, and inside that bag they found it
[25:54] Speaker 2: human arm. It was so difficult for the moms because
[25:59] Speaker 2: of course they're first thought was do either of these
[26:02] Speaker 2: body parts belong to either of our missing children Mica
[26:06] Speaker 2: and Bailey. But then there's also, you know, hope that
[26:11] Speaker 2: it was so complicated. They hoped that obviously the body
[26:15] Speaker 2: parts did not belong to their children, but at the
[26:18] Speaker 2: same time they were like, well, if they do, then
[26:23] Speaker 2: you know, at least there's an answer, right I think.
[26:26] Speaker 2: You know, missing persons cases are so incredibly challenging for
[26:33] Speaker 2: loved ones when they really feel in their core that
[26:40] Speaker 2: their loved one is no longer here on this earth.
[26:43] Speaker 2: But until you have proof of that it's impossible to
[26:48] Speaker 2: not have a little hope and yeah, so it was
[26:51] Speaker 2: for me as a reporter. It was very heavy to
[26:57] Speaker 2: watch them sort of navigate this push and pull, push
[27:02] Speaker 2: and pull of Okay, I want to believe my child's
[27:05] Speaker 2: still alive, but at the same time, I really I
[27:09] Speaker 2: sort of know that they're not. So do I want
[27:13] Speaker 2: to believe that a severed arm belongs to my child? No,
[27:16] Speaker 2: But at the same time, if it is my child,
[27:20] Speaker 2: then you know, at least there's something to go off of.
[27:25] Speaker 2: And then it got very sad and very surprising once
[27:33] Speaker 2: I learned, along with the mothers that the DNA testing
[27:36] Speaker 2: was going to take so long. I believe they were
[27:40] Speaker 2: initially told it would be up to a year and yes,
[27:47] Speaker 2: and so that was that was horrible. The moms were like,
[27:51] Speaker 2: this is the worst feeling in the world, wondering is
[27:56] Speaker 2: a body part a piece of my child? And now
[28:00] Speaker 2: you're telling me we might have to wait a year
[28:04] Speaker 2: to find out. I mean, it was unbelievable. And you know,
[28:09] Speaker 2: I'm I was a local crime reporter. It was my
[28:13] Speaker 2: job to know things like that. I had no clue.
[28:16] Speaker 2: I had no clue and I don't think I ever
[28:18] Speaker 2: would have if it wasn't for the moms. I mean,
[28:22] Speaker 2: there were quite a few severe issues within the Bakersfield,
[28:29] Speaker 2: the Kerrent County, and California justice system that I was
[28:33] Speaker 2: completely unaware of until the moms brought the issues to
[28:39] Speaker 2: the forefront.
[28:40] Speaker 1: Well I didn't take that, ye along White in this stride.
[28:45] Speaker 1: They changed it. They went and talked to law officials,
[28:48] Speaker 1: they moved the process along. Tell us a bit about that,
[28:51] Speaker 1: because that was pretty unprecedented.
[28:53] Speaker 2: Was you know, I've never seen anything like it. It
[28:58] Speaker 2: was amazing. They simply put they were not going to
[29:03] Speaker 2: take the you know, you might have to wait a
[29:05] Speaker 2: year answer. They weren't gonna they weren't going to accept that.
[29:09] Speaker 2: They just felt like, there's just there has to be
[29:13] Speaker 2: another way, and there was there was technology out there
[29:18] Speaker 2: that could get them result could get them answers very quickly,
[29:24] Speaker 2: and so, you know, from their perspective, it just it
[29:27] Speaker 2: simply did not make sense for the technology to not
[29:30] Speaker 2: be utilized. And then you know, they're told, well, it
[29:34] Speaker 2: can't be utilized because we don't have the funding, to
[29:36] Speaker 2: which the moms said, okay, great, we'll get the funding.
[29:40] Speaker 2: You know, they weren't going to take any of these answers.
[29:44] Speaker 2: They were like, no, it's not you know, there's no
[29:46] Speaker 2: challenge that the three of us can't overcome. And so
[29:50] Speaker 2: not only did they raise all the funding that was
[29:54] Speaker 2: needed for their specific cases, but they went on to
[29:59] Speaker 2: do it for or just for the criminal justice system
[30:03] Speaker 2: in Bakersfield as a whole. Right. They started raising money
[30:07] Speaker 2: for all unsolved cases. So that was really really cool
[30:14] Speaker 2: to witness that, And I think it's so rare that
[30:18] Speaker 2: as a crime reporter you get to see people do
[30:22] Speaker 2: something good, make something good out of what is, you know,
[30:27] Speaker 2: someone's worst nightmare. So yeah, I'm very inspiring.
[30:32] Speaker 1: And their worst nightmare that were leaving it and they
[30:34] Speaker 1: managed to do that, which I think is even more inspiring.
[30:37] Speaker 1: So these body parts are found around media, and then
[30:40] Speaker 1: five days before Christmas, they get the news of the DNA.
[30:44] Speaker 1: Do you remember finding out about that? Did they call you?
[30:47] Speaker 1: How did you find out?
[30:48] Speaker 2: Yes? They called me. They were together and it was
[30:57] Speaker 2: absolutely horrific. The news that they were given was that
[31:03] Speaker 2: the leg did not match to Mica or Bailey, but
[31:07] Speaker 2: that the severed arm that was in the bag in
[31:10] Speaker 2: the river did match to Micah. It was so devastating.
[31:15] Speaker 2: It was so shocking.
[31:19] Speaker 1: I was not.
[31:21] Speaker 2: I don't know. I just remember really not expecting it,
[31:27] Speaker 2: and I'll never forget, you know, the emotion. And I
[31:31] Speaker 2: don't really think that Micah's mom was able to actually
[31:34] Speaker 2: say anything on that call. You know, it was such
[31:39] Speaker 2: raw grief that I mean, this was before I had
[31:46] Speaker 2: children myself. If I had children, I don't know if
[31:48] Speaker 2: I could have done this. I don't know if I
[31:50] Speaker 2: could have been you know, I would have been sobbing
[31:53] Speaker 2: right there with her. It is, so it is actually
[31:56] Speaker 2: harder for me now, all these years later, at being
[32:00] Speaker 2: a mother myself, to think back to these moments than
[32:03] Speaker 2: it was when I was actually living them. So it
[32:08] Speaker 2: was really intense because you mentioned Sevid, So it was
[32:12] Speaker 2: very obvious to MICA's mum that he had suffered violence
[32:17] Speaker 2: like that wasn't there because of it had just fallen
[32:20] Speaker 2: off like it was a very viot and so, you know,
[32:23] Speaker 2: it was one thing to have confirmation that okay, Micah
[32:27] Speaker 2: was in fact murdered, but for the confirmation, I mean,
[32:32] Speaker 2: it wasn't just confirmation of that, it was confirmation that
[32:35] Speaker 2: he was murdered. And then his body was dismembered, and
[32:39] Speaker 2: cases of dismemberment are pretty rare, uh, and it was
[32:44] Speaker 2: also quite jarring to think. Okay, so these teenage boys
[32:49] Speaker 2: just happened to, you know, feel feel something brush up
[32:54] Speaker 2: against one of their legs, decided to pull it up,
[32:57] Speaker 2: saw it was a bag, decided to take it to
[32:59] Speaker 2: shore and open it. I mean, so many other people
[33:02] Speaker 2: they would have felt saying brush up against their leg
[33:04] Speaker 2: and just walk away right like it was. So it
[33:07] Speaker 2: was really incredible that they opened the bag, you know whatsoever.
[33:14] Speaker 2: But then we're also thinking, okay, well where's the rest
[33:17] Speaker 2: of him? How many? How many more bags are there
[33:21] Speaker 2: in that river? And you know, it was it was crazy.
[33:24] Speaker 2: It was crazy, and a lot of people then started
[33:28] Speaker 2: talking about organized crime because the idea was, you know,
[33:34] Speaker 2: the dismemberment was so brutal. A lot of people felt
[33:38] Speaker 2: like that that was an indicator that, you know, this
[33:42] Speaker 2: must be the work of you know, a drug cartel
[33:47] Speaker 2: or some violent gang.
[33:50] Speaker 1: Well, this is why the case got quite overwhelming, wasn't it,
[33:52] Speaker 1: Because it was like, was it the mafia? Was it
[33:54] Speaker 1: the bikys? Was it you know other criminals in town?
[33:58] Speaker 1: I want to skip us full because I know that
[34:00] Speaker 1: took up a lot of kind of that over Christmas
[34:03] Speaker 1: and then early twenty nineteen, but then police kind of announced,
[34:07] Speaker 1: which wasn't huge news to the moms, but it was
[34:10] Speaker 1: confirmation at least that Micah and Bailey's disappearances were linked.
[34:14] Speaker 1: But they also stated that James's wasn't. So that wasn't
[34:18] Speaker 1: news to you, was it? But I guess it was
[34:20] Speaker 1: confirmation from authorities.
[34:22] Speaker 2: Yes. To me, the announcement was significant because typically the
[34:28] Speaker 2: Bakersfield Police Department, they typically just didn't comment on cases
[34:34] Speaker 2: that were that were open, right, So it was sort
[34:39] Speaker 2: of like, okay, wait, And of course, at that point,
[34:43] Speaker 2: it had been quite some time that myself and the
[34:47] Speaker 2: moms had been saying to this police department, are the
[34:51] Speaker 2: cases connected? You know, what can you tell us about that?
[34:56] Speaker 2: And they wouldn't comment on it. But then suddenly, unprompted,
[35:03] Speaker 2: they made this announcement. So it was just sort of unusual.
[35:08] Speaker 2: I guess you could say I was very curious as
[35:11] Speaker 2: to why they were choosing to do it. Yeah, it
[35:15] Speaker 2: was interesting.
[35:16] Speaker 1: Twenty nineteen is when you left Bakersfield and moved to
[35:22] Speaker 1: another job in another city.
[35:24] Speaker 3: What was that like for you?
[35:25] Speaker 1: Leaving this case so unfinished and leaving the moms that
[35:28] Speaker 1: you'd formed such a relationship with. I.
[35:31] Speaker 2: I mean, it was it was the worst. I yeah,
[35:37] Speaker 2: I really, I was so involved for so long at
[35:42] Speaker 2: that point it you know, it's it was hard for.
[35:46] Speaker 3: Me to leave.
[35:50] Speaker 2: A lot of cases that were unsolved that I really
[35:53] Speaker 2: hoped to be there working on the case when they
[35:57] Speaker 2: would get solved. But the Baker's feel three, you know,
[36:01] Speaker 2: given my connection to the three moms, that was definitely
[36:05] Speaker 2: the hardest. And you know, I wanted to I wanted
[36:09] Speaker 2: the moms to still be able to lean on me,
[36:12] Speaker 2: despite me not being there physically anymore, and despite me
[36:18] Speaker 2: not being a local reporter in Bakersfield. I still felt like, okay,
[36:22] Speaker 2: like I can that doesn't mean that I still can't
[36:25] Speaker 2: be connected to the case and whatnot. So but yeah,
[36:31] Speaker 2: it was tough.
[36:33] Speaker 1: Up next, we revealed the revelation about Mike's murder that
[36:37] Speaker 1: no one saw coming. I want to bring us now
[36:42] Speaker 1: to the big twist in this case, which is, from
[36:45] Speaker 1: your words what you describe it as. It's May twenty twenty,
[36:49] Speaker 1: some peak COVID and there's an arrest and some charges late.
[36:53] Speaker 1: Can you tell us about that, because that was really
[36:56] Speaker 1: shocking news to basically everyone.
[36:59] Speaker 2: Yes, it was May twenty twenty when charges were filed
[37:04] Speaker 2: in Micah's murder, and there were two people charged. One
[37:11] Speaker 2: of them was Matt Queen, which was very surprising in
[37:16] Speaker 2: the sense that you know, up until this point, the
[37:20] Speaker 2: public perception was that Matt Queen was likely a suspect
[37:27] Speaker 2: in Bailey's disappearance because you know, he was her boyfriend,
[37:32] Speaker 2: so people were not expect people thought, Okay, if Matt
[37:36] Speaker 2: Queen gets charged with anything, it's going to be in
[37:39] Speaker 2: relation to Bailey's disappearance, not MICA's. So that was surprising
[37:44] Speaker 2: in itself. The second person that was charged with Micah's murder,
[37:48] Speaker 2: this was I mean, there were truly no words that
[37:53] Speaker 2: I've ever been able to come up with to really
[37:55] Speaker 2: adequately explain how utterly shocking and earth shattering this was.
[38:01] Speaker 2: Because the second person that was charged with Mike's murder
[38:04] Speaker 2: was Bailey. And you know, at this point, it had
[38:09] Speaker 2: been about two years since this had been a very
[38:15] Speaker 2: public news story, you know, having these three friends that
[38:21] Speaker 2: you know went missing or were murdered back to back,
[38:24] Speaker 2: and as well as their three mothers who banded together
[38:30] Speaker 2: to find answers. But then we're also doing so much
[38:33] Speaker 2: good in the community. I also think what made it
[38:37] Speaker 2: even more shocking was that of the three, Bailey was
[38:43] Speaker 2: the most sympathetic victim because she was a young, beautiful woman, right,
[38:48] Speaker 2: so it was easy for people to look at her.
[38:53] Speaker 2: And I don't know, I think that's just the only
[38:56] Speaker 2: way I can put it, is that she just was
[38:58] Speaker 2: the most sympathetic. And yet now we're being told she
[39:03] Speaker 2: was she was not only are we being told that, okay,
[39:08] Speaker 2: she was a murderer, we're being told that she murdered Micah,
[39:13] Speaker 2: her friend, and you know, this other victim, and we
[39:18] Speaker 2: thought they were victims together. It just I mean, even
[39:21] Speaker 2: now I feel like I struggled to talk about it
[39:23] Speaker 2: in a way that really is clear and concise, because
[39:27] Speaker 2: it's still so shocking and baffling. And furthermore, another big
[39:35] Speaker 2: question everyone had the day that the charges were announced
[39:38] Speaker 2: was wait a second, do you guys, is Bailey still
[39:43] Speaker 2: missing or do you guys think you know, is she
[39:46] Speaker 2: in a jail cell somewhere? And they said, no, she's
[39:49] Speaker 2: still missing. Okay, So up until this point, we've all
[39:53] Speaker 2: believed her disappearance was suspicious and that she most likely
[39:58] Speaker 2: had been murdered herself. Is that not the belief anymore?
[40:01] Speaker 2: Do you guys think now she's just like on the
[40:04] Speaker 2: run And we were told no, you know, we don't
[40:09] Speaker 2: the answers that day, I felt like we're not as
[40:12] Speaker 2: straightforward as personally I would have liked. But you know, ultimately, no,
[40:17] Speaker 2: it doesn't. I do not believe that law enforcement believes
[40:21] Speaker 2: that she is on the run. I think the belief
[40:24] Speaker 2: is that she was also a victim, but that prior
[40:29] Speaker 2: to becoming a victim herself, that she was involved in
[40:32] Speaker 2: Mike's murder. So, you know, I'm just going on a
[40:37] Speaker 2: rant about this because you could tell it is still
[40:41] Speaker 2: it's still emotionally affects me, and I'm the reporter. You know,
[40:46] Speaker 2: it's I sort of feel like I don't really have
[40:47] Speaker 2: a right to be emotionally affected by it, but I was,
[40:51] Speaker 2: and I still am because I knew how much this
[40:57] Speaker 2: was going to turn the lives upside down of the
[41:01] Speaker 2: three moms.
[41:04] Speaker 1: I can say, I can see how you reacted like
[41:06] Speaker 1: that you were emotionally invested in these moms. How did
[41:09] Speaker 1: maca and and Bailey's moms?
[41:13] Speaker 3: Did it rock their relationship with Ayibu to.
[41:15] Speaker 1: Kind of look past this and remain friends.
[41:19] Speaker 2: So ultimately, yes, they were able to weather the storm together,
[41:27] Speaker 2: which you know is unbelievable, but it was not, you know,
[41:32] Speaker 2: it was it was complicated, and I think to some
[41:38] Speaker 2: extent it's it will always be complicated. I think that
[41:44] Speaker 2: James's mom, Die was the most amazing person to be
[41:52] Speaker 2: sort of the middleman between Jane and Cheryl for a
[41:56] Speaker 2: little while. You know, Cheryl and Jane have both said
[42:02] Speaker 2: they think in a way it helped that it was
[42:04] Speaker 2: right in the middle of COVID, back when everyone was
[42:07] Speaker 2: very isolated, so it you know, they they did keep
[42:13] Speaker 2: their distance from each other for a little while, but
[42:15] Speaker 2: it made it feel less less so because of you know,
[42:20] Speaker 2: this earth shattering news.
[42:24] Speaker 3: But yeah, it was.
[42:25] Speaker 2: It was tough. And in the podcast, you know, when
[42:31] Speaker 2: they talk about it, I think they do a really
[42:34] Speaker 2: great job of explaining how they navigated navigated it as
[42:39] Speaker 2: much as one can. But I think you can also
[42:44] Speaker 2: hear in their answers that, yeah, this is not this
[42:47] Speaker 2: is not a normal thing to navigate. This is not
[42:49] Speaker 2: a normal thing for any human being to process like,
[42:52] Speaker 2: this is an unbelievable situation.
[42:55] Speaker 1: Can you tell us exactly what the police theory is
[42:58] Speaker 1: on what happened, Like behind these motor charges, we've got
[43:01] Speaker 1: matt and we've got Bailey, changed what do the police
[43:04] Speaker 1: think happened?
[43:05] Speaker 2: So the case largely boiled down to the testimony from
[43:11] Speaker 2: someone you learn all about in the podcast and how
[43:15] Speaker 2: he fits into things. But simply put, police believe that
[43:21] Speaker 2: Micah was murdered at his home, and they were eventually
[43:26] Speaker 2: able to get him to talk, and he said that
[43:32] Speaker 2: the day that Micah went missing, the day we're all
[43:36] Speaker 2: activity stopped, that is the day that law enforcement believes
[43:43] Speaker 2: that matt Queen and Bailey essentially lured Micah to this
[43:49] Speaker 2: friend's house, and police believed that they tortured him and
[43:55] Speaker 2: ultimately murdered him and dismembered his body. And law enforcement's theory,
[44:04] Speaker 2: you know, this was the part of the case that
[44:05] Speaker 2: I always had an issue with and sort of still do.
[44:11] Speaker 2: Prosecutors don't have to prove a motive when proving a
[44:18] Speaker 2: murder case, but of course every jury wants to, you know,
[44:21] Speaker 2: wants to know what the motive was. I mean, everyone
[44:23] Speaker 2: wants to know what the motive was. And the best
[44:25] Speaker 2: they could ever come up with was that they believed
[44:29] Speaker 2: that Matthew Queen had a gun stolen from his house
[44:34] Speaker 2: during a New Year's party that Micah was at, and
[44:37] Speaker 2: that they thought that Micah had stolen it, so they
[44:41] Speaker 2: were questioning him about it, and then ultimately it resulted
[44:44] Speaker 2: in his murder. I don't I always felt that that
[44:49] Speaker 2: theory was quite flawed. But regardless, you know, as the
[44:54] Speaker 2: detectives would say, as the prosecutor would say, that part is,
[44:58] Speaker 2: that piece of it is far less important. What we
[45:01] Speaker 2: really care about is the you know, the actual evidence
[45:04] Speaker 2: in terms of Micah being murdered, and so their friends
[45:09] Speaker 2: former friends testimony was really the main part of the evidence.
[45:17] Speaker 2: But from there then law enforcement was able to see, Okay, Matthew,
[45:22] Speaker 2: Queen and Bailey, both of their phones were at this
[45:26] Speaker 2: individual's home at the exact time he told us that
[45:30] Speaker 2: they came over with Micah and this and that, so
[45:35] Speaker 2: that supported that story. And then another piece of evidence
[45:40] Speaker 2: that it's quite interesting was after Bailey went missing, matt
[45:46] Speaker 2: Queen dropped off some of her belongings at one of
[45:50] Speaker 2: her friends homes. Like it was, it was kind of
[45:52] Speaker 2: a weird thing, almost like a if you broke up
[45:57] Speaker 2: with someone and you were pissed at them, so you
[45:59] Speaker 2: you know, dump a bag of their clothes outside or something.
[46:03] Speaker 2: You know, he just he dumped this bag of her
[46:06] Speaker 2: things on her friend's doorstep. And you know, no one
[46:10] Speaker 2: really knows why, but whatever. Inside this bag of her
[46:15] Speaker 2: belongings was a purse, one of Bailey's purses, and there
[46:19] Speaker 2: was a piece of rope tied on it, and that
[46:23] Speaker 2: rope matched the rope that was also tied on the
[46:29] Speaker 2: Duffel bag that Micah's arm was inside. And then that
[46:33] Speaker 2: same rope was also found tied to Matt Queen's headboard,
[46:38] Speaker 2: I believe. So that was an interesting.
[46:43] Speaker 1: And they also had blood, didn't they They had Maca's blood.
[46:46] Speaker 2: Yes, there was a small There was a very small
[46:51] Speaker 2: amount of his blood found at the home of the
[46:54] Speaker 2: former friend who ended up testifying, so he basically said
[46:58] Speaker 2: he told the cops. After a lot of pushing from
[47:03] Speaker 2: law enforcement, he eventually broke down and said, Okay, yes,
[47:06] Speaker 2: I know what happened to Micah. It was at my house,
[47:10] Speaker 2: in my garage, and he told them, go, you know,
[47:14] Speaker 2: look in this part of the garage. You'll see a
[47:17] Speaker 2: grease stain. It looks like a grease stain. Test it,
[47:21] Speaker 2: and they did, and it matched to MICA's blood, but
[47:23] Speaker 2: it was very small amount, which again is interesting given
[47:27] Speaker 2: that Micah was supposedly dismembered in that garage, so one
[47:33] Speaker 2: would expect that they would have found more.
[47:37] Speaker 1: So, right, I hadn't even thought of that fact. Just
[47:39] Speaker 1: one spot when you're dismembering a body, that is a
[47:42] Speaker 1: lot of blood, So perhaps there were more locations involved.
[47:46] Speaker 1: But you went to the trial of Matthew Queen in
[47:48] Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, so you kind of re entered Bakersfield
[47:52] Speaker 1: this story.
[47:52] Speaker 3: The mom's lives.
[47:54] Speaker 1: What was that like for you because your life was
[47:56] Speaker 1: starting to move on and then you kind of dived
[47:58] Speaker 1: straight back in.
[47:59] Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. That's an interesting question. You know, in
[48:04] Speaker 2: some ways it felt like I was coming back home,
[48:08] Speaker 2: you know, to where I start, you know, Bakersfields, where
[48:10] Speaker 2: I started my career crime reporting and whatnot. But yeah,
[48:15] Speaker 2: it was very interesting to sort of re enter the picture.
[48:20] Speaker 2: But I'm so glad that I did because I just
[48:25] Speaker 2: think there's something really meaningful as a journalist to get
[48:29] Speaker 2: to see a case progress when you know you've been
[48:34] Speaker 2: on it from the very beginning. It's not it's not
[48:38] Speaker 2: a given right, It's not something you get often when
[48:41] Speaker 2: you start following a case that you're going to get
[48:43] Speaker 2: to be there from day one up until a trial. Actually,
[48:48] Speaker 2: for me, it's quite rare that I've gotten to experience that. So, yeah,
[48:53] Speaker 2: it was, and it was kind of surreal in a
[48:55] Speaker 2: way to think, Wow, you know, would we be here
[48:59] Speaker 2: right now if it weren't for everything the moms did?
[49:03] Speaker 2: And I it's impossible to say, but my gut tells
[49:09] Speaker 2: me that no, we would not have ever gotten to
[49:13] Speaker 2: a trial if it weren't for what the moms did.
[49:17] Speaker 1: A part of the trial I want to ask you
[49:20] Speaker 1: about because obviously Bailey's still missing at this point, she
[49:23] Speaker 1: doesn't get any say in any of these proceedings. And
[49:26] Speaker 1: then you've got matt who actually gave evidence at his
[49:29] Speaker 1: own trial and basically threw her under the bus and
[49:32] Speaker 1: said she was the main perpetrad ar. She sorry, listeners
[49:37] Speaker 1: cut off Micah's head. She was the you know, the
[49:40] Speaker 1: main instigator. How did that go down? Both with prosecutor moms?
[49:45] Speaker 1: You hearing all of that play out?
[49:47] Speaker 2: So I know, I keep using the word shocking. I
[49:50] Speaker 2: need to find a new word, but you know, to
[49:53] Speaker 2: put it in perspective. Matthew Queen for or years I
[50:00] Speaker 2: believe it was at that point had denied any involvement
[50:05] Speaker 2: whatsoever in any violent crime. He had always said, you know,
[50:10] Speaker 2: he had no idea what happened to Micah, was completely
[50:14] Speaker 2: innocent of all the allegations. And then he gets on
[50:17] Speaker 2: the witness stand, which also that was surprising just to
[50:20] Speaker 2: know he was going to testify, because it's pretty rare
[50:22] Speaker 2: to see a defendant testify on their own behalf, particularly
[50:27] Speaker 2: in a murder case, And so for him to get
[50:33] Speaker 2: up there on the stand, and then all the sudden,
[50:38] Speaker 2: we all realize in the court room, oh my gosh,
[50:41] Speaker 2: he's telling he's about to tell a story of what
[50:43] Speaker 2: happened that day. He's about to he's about to admit
[50:46] Speaker 2: to this, like this is this is what is happening
[50:49] Speaker 2: right now.
[50:51] Speaker 4: And he goes on to tell a story of a
[50:56] Speaker 4: completely different theory of the crime than we had ever
[51:00] Speaker 4: heard before, and he essentially says that Micah's death was
[51:06] Speaker 4: the result of him and Micah getting into an argument
[51:12] Speaker 4: and Micah pulling a gun on him, and him trying
[51:16] Speaker 4: to wrestle the gun out of Micah's hands, and while
[51:19] Speaker 4: that was happening, he says that Bailey grabbed a forty
[51:24] Speaker 4: pound dumbbell and.
[51:28] Speaker 2: Dropped it on Micah's head, killing him instantly. And then
[51:33] Speaker 2: he and Bailey, he said, decided that at that point
[51:39] Speaker 2: they felt it was best to dispose of Mike's body,
[51:43] Speaker 2: and so that they dismembered him. And he said that
[51:48] Speaker 2: they didn't want Mike's body ever to be found, right,
[51:52] Speaker 2: They just wanted, you know, they didn't want there to
[51:56] Speaker 2: be a murder investigation. That was the intent. So it
[51:58] Speaker 2: was quite an expected when his arm was found, and
[52:02] Speaker 2: then also Micah's skull was later found in a bag
[52:08] Speaker 2: in the river as well. But anyhow, so it was
[52:12] Speaker 2: it was just, I mean, it was crazy. There's really
[52:14] Speaker 2: no other way to describe it. I think. You know, obviously,
[52:17] Speaker 2: it was incredibly difficult for the moms to hear, particularly
[52:22] Speaker 2: Baily's mom. I mean, you know, in the courtroom, people
[52:26] Speaker 2: are given strict instructions. You know, you cannot react, you
[52:30] Speaker 2: do you sit there and you be quiet. Even if
[52:33] Speaker 2: you're the family members of the victim, they still really
[52:37] Speaker 2: don't want you having any type of emotional outburst reaction
[52:43] Speaker 2: really during the court proceedings. So she just has to
[52:47] Speaker 2: sit there Wyat. Yeah, I mean it's but of course,
[52:54] Speaker 2: internally she's dying inside thinking. You know, first of all,
[52:59] Speaker 2: she always has said that she just does not believe
[53:02] Speaker 2: that Bailey was physically capable of lifting a forty pound
[53:06] Speaker 2: dumbbell and lifting it high enough that she would have
[53:10] Speaker 2: been able to you know. So yeah, so it was
[53:13] Speaker 2: very difficult for the moms to hear this story. And
[53:17] Speaker 2: then the detective, you know, who had spent so much
[53:20] Speaker 2: time working on the case, he was stunned because he's like, what,
[53:24] Speaker 2: you know, how many times have I given this guy
[53:27] Speaker 2: the opportunity to tell me his side of the story,
[53:30] Speaker 2: and he's always said, you know, he has nothing to say,
[53:33] Speaker 2: that he didn't do anything, and we have it all wrong.
[53:36] Speaker 2: So yeah, it was, it was. It was crazy.
[53:41] Speaker 1: Matt was found guilty of murdering the second degree, So
[53:46] Speaker 1: that's kind of the lesser murder charge, isn't it.
[53:49] Speaker 3: What does that mean?
[53:50] Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I could talk about this aspect of
[53:53] Speaker 2: the case for ever, because I still don't understand it myself. Secutors,
[54:00] Speaker 2: the prosecution's theory was that MIC's murder was planned out premeditated,
[54:07] Speaker 2: which means the only charge that fits that crime is
[54:10] Speaker 2: first degree murder. But then then you have the defense,
[54:15] Speaker 2: which was that this really wasn't murder at all, that
[54:19] Speaker 2: this was you know that first of all, Matt Queen
[54:22] Speaker 2: himself didn't do anything and it was Bailey and the
[54:26] Speaker 2: theory that they explained in how Bailey acted would really
[54:30] Speaker 2: be a manslaughter charge. So when the jury came back
[54:35] Speaker 2: with second degree murder, which is it's murder but no premeditation, yeah,
[54:41] Speaker 2: I think everyone involved, the moms, Matt Queen, the prosecutor,
[54:45] Speaker 2: the defense attorney were all curious of exactly what the
[54:51] Speaker 2: jury's theory of the crime was. So yeah, that was interesting.
[54:56] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's all process.
[54:58] Speaker 1: And then the sentence he was given with eighty six years,
[55:01] Speaker 1: which kind of just say, to an Australian is huge
[55:04] Speaker 1: because here almoda charges are around twenty three to twenty
[55:09] Speaker 1: five years, so eighty six to me seems huge and
[55:13] Speaker 1: it is huge.
[55:14] Speaker 2: It's huge for us here in the States as well.
[55:17] Speaker 2: And the only reason why that occurred is because he
[55:22] Speaker 2: was charged with so many other crimes. MICA's murder was
[55:27] Speaker 2: one of I believe it was thirty six charges total.
[55:35] Speaker 2: You know, there were there was quite the variety. There
[55:39] Speaker 2: were charges for making manufacturing the ghost guns, there were
[55:46] Speaker 2: a lot of charges, it was, which made the trial
[55:50] Speaker 2: itself long and intense. And yeah, so that is why
[55:56] Speaker 2: that is where that sentence comes into play, because he
[55:59] Speaker 2: was convicted of so many felonies. If he had only
[56:04] Speaker 2: been convicted of the murder and second degree murder, his
[56:08] Speaker 2: sentence would be fifteen years to life, and after fifteen
[56:12] Speaker 2: years he'd be eligible to seek parole.
[56:18] Speaker 1: I can imagine, like for MICA's family, that is a
[56:20] Speaker 1: sense of closure. But then we've still got all these
[56:22] Speaker 1: unanswered questions in the other two cases.
[56:25] Speaker 3: You know, where's Bailey.
[56:27] Speaker 1: There's no charges in her case, and then there's no
[56:31] Speaker 1: charges in James's case either. I know that he was
[56:34] Speaker 1: you know, deemed a separate case. But we've got these
[56:37] Speaker 1: two still unanswered crimes, don't we unsolved crimes?
[56:41] Speaker 2: Yes? And you know, Micah's mom, Cheryl has always really
[56:48] Speaker 2: made a point to say, you know, despite us getting
[56:53] Speaker 2: this sense of resolution in our son's case, we you know,
[57:00] Speaker 2: our family still fully stands with the other two moms
[57:05] Speaker 2: and you know this won't really be resolved until there's
[57:09] Speaker 2: answers in all three cases. And with Bailey's disappearance, you know,
[57:15] Speaker 2: it's all these years later she is still just missing, right,
[57:20] Speaker 2: there is still no concrete evidence that says she is deceased,
[57:27] Speaker 2: despite most people out there feeling like, yeah, that's you know,
[57:34] Speaker 2: that seems to be the most logical explanation, and so regardless,
[57:40] Speaker 2: that is going to tear a family up inside unbelievably
[57:45] Speaker 2: to have to have no answers. But then you add
[57:49] Speaker 2: in the complication that she was charged with murder, so
[57:55] Speaker 2: you know, very very difficult for her family to have
[58:00] Speaker 2: no answers. And then in James's case, you know, once
[58:05] Speaker 2: it became clear that James's case was likely not directly
[58:08] Speaker 2: connected to Bailey and Micah's cases, inevitably it got less attention.
[58:16] Speaker 2: And then once the trial began, James's mom she was
[58:20] Speaker 2: so crucial in actually no prior to the trial, once
[58:25] Speaker 2: it came out that Bailey was charged with Micah's murder,
[58:28] Speaker 2: James's mom was so crucial in being the glue that
[58:32] Speaker 2: held them together, right, you know, she was the support
[58:36] Speaker 2: system for Bailey's mom and Micah's mom, And so inevitably
[58:41] Speaker 2: you have these reasons for why James's case is not
[58:46] Speaker 2: getting maybe the attention that his family would want it to.
[58:51] Speaker 2: And at the conclusion of Matt Queen's trial, James's mom died,
[58:57] Speaker 2: told me, you know, okay, now I'm going to really
[59:01] Speaker 2: go back to putting my all into my son's case
[59:07] Speaker 2: and finding answers. And then very shortly after she got sick,
[59:14] Speaker 2: she was diagnosed with terminal or ovarian cancer. And you know,
[59:21] Speaker 2: I still can't really talk about it without getting choked up,
[59:30] Speaker 2: because it's not a part of the job that I anticipated.
[59:35] Speaker 2: You know, you think it's you think it's hard enough
[59:38] Speaker 2: working with parents who lose their children to violence, But
[59:45] Speaker 2: I never imagined working with parents who would not get
[59:50] Speaker 2: to be here when to see answers, right. I never imagined,
[59:58] Speaker 2: you know, James's mom would put so much work into
[1:00:03] Speaker 2: getting some sort of resolution and then she would die
[1:00:06] Speaker 2: without that. So it was, you know, it was horrible,
[1:00:13] Speaker 2: and I also feel, you know, a lot of emotion
[1:00:17] Speaker 2: in regards to who is fighting for James. Now, you know,
[1:00:23] Speaker 2: the other moms do an amazing job, but no one's
[1:00:29] Speaker 2: going to fight for you know, no one's going to
[1:00:33] Speaker 2: fight the way that she was, and so it's just
[1:00:36] Speaker 2: it's very very it's tragic. It's just yeah, it's it's
[1:00:42] Speaker 2: a hard part of the case. And for a while
[1:00:47] Speaker 2: when she was when we knew she didn't have much
[1:00:49] Speaker 2: time left. It did temporarily really push me to circle
[1:00:56] Speaker 2: back to James's case and you know, essentially try to
[1:00:59] Speaker 2: do everything I could think of. And I made some
[1:01:03] Speaker 2: breakthrough there with the chiropractor that you know, had always
[1:01:08] Speaker 2: been a person of interest and he was willing to
[1:01:13] Speaker 2: talk to me, and and then he died, so that it's, yeah,
[1:01:20] Speaker 2: so that was kind of unbelievable. And yeah, I really,
[1:01:27] Speaker 2: I really really hope Olivia.
[1:01:29] Speaker 1: Can I just say you did everything, You did everything
[1:01:32] Speaker 1: in your power in this case.
[1:01:33] Speaker 3: This is not on me, thank you.
[1:01:35] Speaker 2: It's you know, it's James's case. Is really it's a
[1:01:38] Speaker 2: weird one because it seems so solvable, but yet it's not.
[1:01:43] Speaker 2: So it's you know, it's really confusing and in that aspect,
[1:01:49] Speaker 2: and I mean, I'm really hopeful that there will be
[1:01:53] Speaker 2: answers in both his case and Bailey's case. And you know,
[1:01:58] Speaker 2: after c James's mom passed without answers, you know, I
[1:02:05] Speaker 2: don't want to think about that Bailey's family having to
[1:02:10] Speaker 2: go through that. You know, it really is a part
[1:02:13] Speaker 2: of the job that just it hit me so much
[1:02:17] Speaker 2: harder than I would ever imagine, and it just doesn't
[1:02:20] Speaker 2: seem it's just so not fair, you know, it's just
[1:02:23] Speaker 2: so obviously it's so not fair. But it's just like
[1:02:28] Speaker 2: how cruel can life be? Is sort of where I
[1:02:31] Speaker 2: find myself.
[1:02:33] Speaker 1: Well, we're in twenty twenty six when we're talking now,
[1:02:35] Speaker 1: and it's so obvious to me that the emotion in
[1:02:39] Speaker 1: you from covering this case for so many years, you know,
[1:02:42] Speaker 1: starting off in twenty eighteen, that was a trial in
[1:02:44] Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. What's it like for you to like
[1:02:48] Speaker 1: look back in hindsight and see how this case is
[1:02:52] Speaker 1: kind of shaped to your career and you your mom.
[1:02:56] Speaker 1: Now it feels like to me that it plays a
[1:02:59] Speaker 1: special pod in your life.
[1:03:01] Speaker 2: This case, it absolutely does. And you know, it taught
[1:03:05] Speaker 2: me so many things about being a reporter, and you know,
[1:03:11] Speaker 2: the moms have inspired me so much. But to be
[1:03:18] Speaker 2: totally honest, you know, since becoming a mom recently, it's almost,
[1:03:26] Speaker 2: I don't know, I think even on a subconscious level,
[1:03:30] Speaker 2: I've almost taken a step back from the case because
[1:03:35] Speaker 2: it is so much you know, before I used to
[1:03:38] Speaker 2: relate to the moms on a level of, oh my
[1:03:43] Speaker 2: mom loves me this much. My mom would do this
[1:03:46] Speaker 2: for me, that is, And I thought that that already
[1:03:50] Speaker 2: was emotional and intense. I never anticipated what it would
[1:03:56] Speaker 2: make me feel like to think about what the mom's
[1:04:00] Speaker 2: have gone through, what they go through every day being
[1:04:03] Speaker 2: a mom myself. It's almost too intense. Yeah, it really
[1:04:10] Speaker 2: kind of is.
[1:04:13] Speaker 1: Thank you to Olivia for joining us on this episode.
[1:04:15] Speaker 1: You can find a link to her podcast, The Bakersfield
[1:04:18] Speaker 1: Three in our show notes. Thanks so much for listening.
[1:04:21] Speaker 1: I'll be back next week with another true crime conversation.

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