# In Eight Minutes Of Footage Jessica Zrinski Doesn’t Get Out Of The Car Once

An episode of [True Crime Conversations](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1469153910), 19 Aug 2026, 44 min.

Audio: https://traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/3ea926be-9be7-482a-8ac3-a44f016e43d1/abaa347e-8ac5-454e-85f9-aa64005c285f/43e13be9-531d-4ddf-968c-b4aa001d7b80/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=6d9fdc19-147e-4f77-8d3f-aa64005e5923

At 8:49am on a Tuesday morning in November 2022, 30-year-old Jessica Zrinski was captured on CCTV in the passenger seat of a blue Holden Commodore pulling into a service station in Mount Victoria. Trailing from her passenger door was a massive tree branch, and driving the car was Paul Jones, a man she had met outside a Western Sydney pub just hours earlier. Those eight minutes and 40 seconds of footage would be the last time Jessica was ever seen alive. Soon after, Jones vanished off the grid for nearly three years, eventually located by police living in a camouflaged cave in dense bushland before being subpoenaed to give evidence at her coronial inquest. In this episode of True Crime Conversations, NewsCorp investigative journalist Ashlea Hansen joins Gemma Bath to unpack the bizarre timeline, the extensive searches through the Blue Mountains bushland, and what Jessica’s family hopes to finally learn as the inquest resumes. LINKS If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636. Contact Full Stop Australia on 1800 385 578, 7 days, 24 hours. GET IN TOUCH Follow us on Instagram and TikTok @truecrimeconversations Want us to cover a case on the podcast? Email us at truecrime@mamamia.com.au or send us a voice note. MAMAMIA OFFERS: • Right now, every Mamamia subscriber is automatically entered to win a $5,000 Dreamworld holiday for four; flights, accommodation, express passes and more included. Subscribe here to enter. T&Cs apply. • Get access to Very Peri, Mamamia's exclusive perimenopause series, for just $59. 25 world-leading experts, over 20 on-demand sessions, available now. We’ve sorted through the noise so you don't have to. Go to veryperi.com.au today. You hot? Same. Make sure to leave us a rating and review on Apple & Spotify to let us know how you're liking the episodes. CREDITS Guest: Ashlea Hansen Host & Executive Producer: Gemma Bath Senior Producer: Tahli Blackman Producer: Ella Maitland Group Executive Producer: Ilaria Brophy Video Editor: Julian Rosario Audio Designer: Tegan Salder Mamamia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we have recorded this podcast. Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: It's eight forty nine am on a Tuesday morning in
[0:05] Speaker 1: November twenty twenty two, and Jessica Zarinsky is in the
[0:09] Speaker 1: passenger seat of a blue Holden Commodore as it pulls
[0:12] Speaker 1: into an amphole service station in Mount Victoria in the
[0:15] Speaker 1: New South Wales Blue Mountains. The thirty year old's hair
[0:19] Speaker 1: and orange top can clearly be seen on CCTV footage
[0:22] Speaker 1: from the servo, but her face is obscured by the angle.
[0:27] Speaker 1: Next to her driving is a man named Paul Jones.
[0:31] Speaker 1: She met him the night before in a pub car
[0:33] Speaker 1: park more than an hour's drive from where they are
[0:36] Speaker 1: right now. A giant branch can be seen sticking out
[0:40] Speaker 1: of Jessica's door. It's trailing along the ground as they
[0:44] Speaker 1: pull in. There's also damage on the front bumper. They're
[0:49] Speaker 1: at the service station for just under nine minutes. In
[0:53] Speaker 1: that time, Paul fills up the car, buys some strawberry
[0:58] Speaker 1: milk and a doughnut, heads back in a second time
[1:01] Speaker 1: for some cigarettes, checks out something in the boot and
[1:04] Speaker 1: removes the branch from Jessica's door.
[1:07] Speaker 2: She doesn't step foot out of the vehicle.
[1:11] Speaker 1: It's the last time Jessica Zarinsky has been seen and
[1:16] Speaker 1: its footage. Her devastated family is still trying to understand.
[1:28] Speaker 1: I'm Jemma Bath and you're listening to True Crime Conversations,
[1:32] Speaker 1: a podcast exploring the world's most notorious crimes.
[1:35] Speaker 2: By speaking to the people who know the most about them.
[1:39] Speaker 1: It's all they have eight minutes forty seconds of footage.
[1:44] Speaker 1: After that, there's no trace of Jessica. They've analyzed every
[1:49] Speaker 1: second of that servo CCTV trying to work out what's
[1:53] Speaker 1: going on.
[1:54] Speaker 2: Who is this man?
[1:56] Speaker 1: What are they doing in the Blue Mountains? Why is
[1:58] Speaker 1: there half a tree branch hanging off the car. It's
[2:02] Speaker 1: all just bizarre, and Jones has never come forward.
[2:06] Speaker 2: To explain it.
[2:08] Speaker 1: Three years later, the family might finally get some answers.
[2:13] Speaker 1: An inquest into Jessica's suspected death that started in March
[2:17] Speaker 1: will continue in August twenty twenty six. Jones, the last
[2:23] Speaker 1: person to see her alive, has been served a subpoena
[2:26] Speaker 1: to appear and answer questions.
[2:29] Speaker 2: To be clear, he has not been charged.
[2:31] Speaker 1: With anything in relation to this case, but he is
[2:34] Speaker 1: a key person of interest. He's the last person who
[2:38] Speaker 1: saw Jessica alive. Our guest today is News Corp. Investigative
[2:43] Speaker 1: journalist Ashley Hanson. She's been following this case closely and
[2:47] Speaker 1: has been talking to Jessica's.
[2:48] Speaker 2: Family in the lead up to the inquest.
[2:51] Speaker 1: She joins US now, Ashley, tell me about Jessica. How
[3:01] Speaker 1: would her family describe her?
[3:03] Speaker 3: Her family would describe her as outgoing, loving, caring, very kind,
[3:10] Speaker 3: an element of naivety, I guess, but certainly vulnerable and
[3:17] Speaker 3: troubled would be a way that they would probably describe
[3:19] Speaker 3: her as well.
[3:20] Speaker 4: She struggled with.
[3:21] Speaker 3: Some mental health issues and drug addiction issues as well,
[3:26] Speaker 3: but she was very much loved by her family and
[3:29] Speaker 3: her friends.
[3:30] Speaker 1: What was happening in her life in twenty twenty two?
[3:32] Speaker 1: You mentioned that she was having some issues there, But
[3:34] Speaker 1: where was she living? What was she doing?
[3:37] Speaker 3: Well? I think she was living with her grandmother and
[3:40] Speaker 3: she lived in Sydney's West. She was also known to
[3:45] Speaker 3: go and stay with friends a lot, and I think
[3:48] Speaker 3: she was just trying to figure out her life and
[3:51] Speaker 3: she wasn't working at the time.
[3:54] Speaker 4: Her family was trying to help her.
[3:56] Speaker 3: But anyone with a loved one that he's going through
[3:59] Speaker 3: difficult culties knows that it's challenging. It's challenging to help
[4:03] Speaker 3: someone that are going through their own battles. She was
[4:08] Speaker 3: still very much going about her own business. I mean,
[4:12] Speaker 3: in the days leading up to her disappearance, she was
[4:15] Speaker 3: going to get her hair done. So she took pride
[4:18] Speaker 3: in the way that she was she appeared and was
[4:23] Speaker 3: doing things like that and hanging out with friends and whatnot. So, yeah,
[4:27] Speaker 3: she was she was still living life.
[4:32] Speaker 1: A word that the family used quite a bit in
[4:34] Speaker 1: your interviews was vulnerable. Can you expand on that? How
[4:38] Speaker 1: did they see her as vulnerable?
[4:41] Speaker 3: Anyone with addiction issues and mental health issues are vulnerable
[4:45] Speaker 3: because they're struggling in their life and their their challenges
[4:50] Speaker 3: in terms of yeah, they're problems that they're dealing with.
[4:54] Speaker 3: And I think that because of her her problems that
[4:58] Speaker 3: she was facing, she was very much vulnerable in the
[5:02] Speaker 3: sense that she was easy to take advantage of. I
[5:06] Speaker 3: think that's how they view it, and that's why they
[5:09] Speaker 3: would definitely describe her as vulnerable.
[5:11] Speaker 4: She did need help.
[5:14] Speaker 1: Can you take us through her movements on the evening
[5:16] Speaker 1: of Monday, November twenty eighth, twenty twenty two. We have
[5:20] Speaker 1: a lot of CCTV that can show us where she was,
[5:23] Speaker 1: what time, where she kind of ended up. Can you
[5:26] Speaker 1: talk us through that.
[5:28] Speaker 3: It's really incredible how police have pieced together her hours
[5:33] Speaker 3: and even the days leading up to her disappearance. Because
[5:36] Speaker 3: she didn't have a phone, that was made it very
[5:39] Speaker 3: difficult for police to track her movements, so they really
[5:42] Speaker 3: had to go back to gathering all the CCTV that
[5:46] Speaker 3: they could and interviewing people and piecing together her movements,
[5:51] Speaker 3: and they pretty much pieced it together minute by minute.
[5:54] Speaker 4: And the night that she was met this mystery.
[5:59] Speaker 3: Man who we talk about later, But the night that
[6:01] Speaker 3: she of this interaction with this man, she had been
[6:07] Speaker 3: walking around the streets and we're not entirely sure of
[6:09] Speaker 3: what she was doing, but there was this two minutes
[6:12] Speaker 3: this chance encounter with a driver and she met him
[6:16] Speaker 3: in the car park outside of a pub in Sydney's
[6:19] Speaker 3: West and we don't know the nature of the conversation,
[6:22] Speaker 3: but we do know that she willingly got into his car,
[6:26] Speaker 3: this blue Commodore station wagon, and the driver we now
[6:31] Speaker 3: know is Paul Jones, and he was the last known
[6:35] Speaker 3: man to see her alive. And about ten minutes after
[6:38] Speaker 3: they left the pub, they went to a service station
[6:41] Speaker 3: in Hawsley Park, not far away. Jessica can be seen happy.
[6:46] Speaker 3: It doesn't look like there's a problem at all. In
[6:48] Speaker 3: the front seat, mister Jones filled up his car. He
[6:52] Speaker 3: went in and bought Jessica a drink. He bought himself
[6:55] Speaker 3: a drink as well, and they left into the night.
[6:59] Speaker 3: And what transpired over the next twelve hours is now
[7:06] Speaker 3: at the center of homicide investigation.
[7:10] Speaker 1: When her family realized that she hopped into this car
[7:13] Speaker 1: of a seemingly stranger, she doesn't know this person. Was
[7:17] Speaker 1: that unusual for her? Would they have seen that as
[7:20] Speaker 1: weird for her to just hop in a car with
[7:22] Speaker 1: a random man.
[7:23] Speaker 3: No, she was extremely friendly and as I said that,
[7:28] Speaker 3: that was part of her personality. She would talk to anyone.
[7:30] Speaker 3: She would ask people for a cigarette, she was very trusting.
[7:34] Speaker 3: She would ask people for a lift. She'd ask people
[7:36] Speaker 3: if she could borrow their mobile phone because she didn't
[7:39] Speaker 3: have one at the time, and so that wasn't unusual,
[7:43] Speaker 3: and I think that also made it difficult for the
[7:45] Speaker 3: police investigation.
[7:48] Speaker 1: There was a witness that you got to meet that
[7:52] Speaker 1: then placed the car kind of around three four am
[7:56] Speaker 1: in the morning. What did he see uring that interaction.
[8:01] Speaker 3: It's incredible what he saw because during my investigation I
[8:06] Speaker 3: identified him and reached out to him, and he said, yeah, no,
[8:10] Speaker 3: I have a vivid memory of a car the same
[8:14] Speaker 3: description of this blue Comodore station Wagon on that particular night.
[8:18] Speaker 3: And I said, well, can you prove it? It was a
[8:21] Speaker 3: couple of years ago. Now how do I know that?
[8:24] Speaker 3: He said, well, I text my friend that night who
[8:27] Speaker 3: has that car, because of the way that it was
[8:30] Speaker 3: being driven very erratically, And he said, and I actually
[8:34] Speaker 3: text my friend who had a car like that, a
[8:36] Speaker 3: blue Comodore station Wagon, and said, hey, was that you
[8:39] Speaker 3: running from the cops this morning? And the reason he
[8:42] Speaker 3: said that was because at this particular intersection where he
[8:45] Speaker 3: spotted that car, he was on his way as a
[8:47] Speaker 3: truck driver, a delivery driver of some sorts, and he
[8:51] Speaker 3: was on his way to a job. And he said
[8:53] Speaker 3: he had a very early pickup of some type of machinery.
[8:57] Speaker 3: So it was early in the early hours of the morning.
[9:00] Speaker 3: And he said he approached these this busy intersection. It
[9:05] Speaker 3: wasn't busy at that time in the morning. Of course,
[9:07] Speaker 3: he was one of the only cars on the road.
[9:09] Speaker 3: But he said that when he approached the intersection, he
[9:12] Speaker 3: saw this car just come out of nowhere, and when
[9:16] Speaker 3: it crossed the intersection, it went onto the wrong side
[9:19] Speaker 3: of the road and started traveling on the wrong side of.
[9:22] Speaker 4: The road, and he was just stunned.
[9:25] Speaker 3: And then just momentarily after a police car came through,
[9:31] Speaker 3: and so he just put the two and two together, thinking, well,
[9:35] Speaker 3: were the police following that car when.
[9:38] Speaker 4: We don't know if that was the case.
[9:40] Speaker 3: What we know is that perhaps that driver and one
[9:45] Speaker 3: of the questions that we're trying to answer is is
[9:47] Speaker 3: that driver of the blue Commodore station wagon with a
[9:52] Speaker 3: in some way concerned about the police being in that
[9:55] Speaker 3: area and they were trying to, yeah, drive away for
[9:59] Speaker 3: some particular reason. But it's obviously of note to identify
[10:03] Speaker 3: the fact that this car was seen on the wrong
[10:05] Speaker 3: side of the road. Sean Edwards, who was that truck
[10:09] Speaker 3: driver that morning. He has since done a formal statement
[10:13] Speaker 3: with homicide detectives about what he saw that night. So
[10:17] Speaker 3: that statement is now part of Jessica's brief of evidence,
[10:20] Speaker 3: and that is now being examined by the coroner.
[10:23] Speaker 4: So I'm not.
[10:24] Speaker 3: Exactly sure how it all fits in, but certainly when
[10:29] Speaker 3: I heard about that, it was something that definitely stood
[10:34] Speaker 3: out in that evening of events.
[10:37] Speaker 1: Because the next kind of major time or only other
[10:41] Speaker 1: time we see Jessica is the following morning where CCTV
[10:45] Speaker 1: from a servo kind of picks up the car and
[10:49] Speaker 1: it's eight minutes forty seconds of footage, so we get
[10:53] Speaker 1: a lot of insight. What was your reaction when you
[10:57] Speaker 1: saw that video the morning after she jumped into this car?
[11:03] Speaker 4: Bizarre?
[11:04] Speaker 1: It is bizarre, isn't it.
[11:06] Speaker 4: I just it's perplexing.
[11:09] Speaker 3: It's distressing now knowing that that is the final glimpse
[11:16] Speaker 3: that we saw Jessica and there's just a flash of
[11:20] Speaker 3: her in the front seat of this car. We don't
[11:23] Speaker 3: know what state she was in in terms of her
[11:27] Speaker 3: physical wellbeing.
[11:28] Speaker 4: We don't know what her mental state was.
[11:30] Speaker 3: We don't know if she was in fear, We don't
[11:33] Speaker 3: know if she was happy in that car.
[11:35] Speaker 4: We just don't know.
[11:36] Speaker 3: And because of the length of time of that CCTV segment,
[11:41] Speaker 3: as you say, almost nine minutes, it's a long time.
[11:45] Speaker 1: Like if you think about how long you go to
[11:46] Speaker 1: a servo for you fill up the car, you grab
[11:49] Speaker 1: something from the shop, you head back to like it's
[11:51] Speaker 1: a long period of time.
[11:53] Speaker 3: It's also a long time for a passenger someone like
[11:57] Speaker 3: Jessica to have not got out of the car, and
[11:59] Speaker 3: that comes from her family, and that's what they find.
[12:04] Speaker 4: The most bizarre part of.
[12:06] Speaker 3: That CCTV is they said that Jessica was just a person.
[12:10] Speaker 4: She was quite fidgety. She used to smoke, so she
[12:13] Speaker 4: was just sinking.
[12:13] Speaker 1: Cigaretes exactly, she duck out and have one.
[12:16] Speaker 3: And that's what they're the questions that they're asking, why
[12:19] Speaker 3: didn't she get out of the car. There's so many
[12:23] Speaker 3: points in that CCTV that you are just left it
[12:27] Speaker 3: asking more questions about why did he do that.
[12:31] Speaker 4: One of the other.
[12:31] Speaker 3: Things was when you can see this foliage in the
[12:36] Speaker 3: stuck in between the passenger door underneath, and this is
[12:40] Speaker 3: clearly from the bush somewhere in the Blue Mountains. And
[12:43] Speaker 3: you have to remember that Jessica was picked up from
[12:46] Speaker 3: outside of a Western Sydney pub and then the following
[12:50] Speaker 3: morning she's seen on CCTV with this driver, Paul Jones
[12:56] Speaker 3: in the Blue Mountains. So what was the purpose of
[12:59] Speaker 3: being in the Blue Mountains. That's a question that everyone
[13:04] Speaker 3: is asking and wants to know. But the thing about
[13:07] Speaker 3: that CCTV and getting back to the foliage is that
[13:10] Speaker 3: when Paul Jones. After he filled up, and then he
[13:13] Speaker 3: went inside and he bought a strawberry milk, and he
[13:18] Speaker 3: came back outside and he spotted the foliage in the door,
[13:21] Speaker 3: and he walked around to Jessica's side, the passenger's side,
[13:26] Speaker 3: and he just opened the door very briefly for a
[13:29] Speaker 3: second or.
[13:30] Speaker 4: So to pull out the foliage.
[13:32] Speaker 3: But I was kind of left wondering if I was
[13:35] Speaker 3: opening someone's door who was a passenger in my car,
[13:39] Speaker 3: I would mention what I was doing as in, it's.
[13:42] Speaker 1: A bit funny. There's a like, it's not just a
[13:44] Speaker 1: bit of foliage. It's like I'm trying.
[13:46] Speaker 2: It's huge.
[13:48] Speaker 4: It's a brand, huge branch.
[13:50] Speaker 1: Exactly make a comment.
[13:51] Speaker 4: And how did it get into the car?
[13:53] Speaker 3: I mean, that's another question, right, But in terms of
[13:56] Speaker 3: him going and opening the door.
[13:58] Speaker 4: I just thought that's a little bit strange.
[14:00] Speaker 3: Why did it not converse with her and just say
[14:03] Speaker 3: I'm just oh, there's just something in the door, and yeah,
[14:07] Speaker 3: just one of the many, many things we may never know,
[14:11] Speaker 3: but it was strange. And then at one point during
[14:16] Speaker 3: this CCTV, before he fills up the car, he goes
[14:20] Speaker 3: to the boot and when he opens the boot.
[14:23] Speaker 4: There's a blanket in the car.
[14:26] Speaker 3: Now, a blanket, ordinarily in someone's car is probably unusual.
[14:31] Speaker 3: But that blanket, as far as I'm aware, has never
[14:34] Speaker 3: been found, and Jessica has never been found. Paul Jones,
[14:39] Speaker 3: who has not been charged, nor is anyone else, he'll
[14:42] Speaker 3: have an opportunity to explain and answer some of these
[14:46] Speaker 3: questions when the next phase of the inquest gets underway.
[14:51] Speaker 1: You mentioned that the bush came from the Blue Mountains.
[14:54] Speaker 1: We know that, don't we. We know the car during
[14:57] Speaker 1: that twenty four hour period went.
[14:58] Speaker 4: To the look.
[15:01] Speaker 3: I'm not aware of what sort of determinations the police
[15:05] Speaker 3: have done in terms of matching that particular branch with
[15:07] Speaker 3: the area that Paul Jones was spotted in that morning,
[15:11] Speaker 3: but we do know that mobile phone data had placed
[15:15] Speaker 3: him in the Hampton State Forest at around six twenty
[15:19] Speaker 3: in the morning for almost a two hour period before
[15:23] Speaker 3: he got back to that Mount Victoria service station, so
[15:27] Speaker 3: that I guess looking at the timeline, it's unusual because
[15:31] Speaker 3: he went to this area of the state forest with Jessica,
[15:36] Speaker 3: presumedly at around six point twenty in the morning, then
[15:41] Speaker 3: he is for some reason he has left the forest
[15:44] Speaker 3: and then he's gone to get petrol, and then we
[15:46] Speaker 3: see Jessica in the front seat that glimpse. And then
[15:49] Speaker 3: when he turns back out onto the Great Western Highway,
[15:52] Speaker 3: he doesn't head back down the mountain towards Sydney. He
[15:56] Speaker 3: heads back in the direction that he came from, which
[15:59] Speaker 3: is the Hampton State Forest, back into the forest, and
[16:03] Speaker 3: clearly the matching of the foliage stacks up the evidence
[16:09] Speaker 3: that he had been in that forest and possibly taken
[16:12] Speaker 3: the car off road to a certain degree along one
[16:15] Speaker 3: of those tracks. Interestingly, what came out at the inquest
[16:20] Speaker 3: was that a driver who was working in that area
[16:23] Speaker 3: at the time, something to do with logging, had identified
[16:28] Speaker 3: and had reported to police that they saw a lowered
[16:34] Speaker 3: Commodore station wagon, a blue color and a man was
[16:39] Speaker 3: driving it. When that evidence came out of the inquest
[16:42] Speaker 3: as well, that was shocking to hear what he had
[16:48] Speaker 3: to say to police after they put out a public
[16:50] Speaker 3: appeal in terms of the car and had anyone seen
[16:53] Speaker 3: this car? And this worker came forward and said, well,
[16:56] Speaker 3: I do have a memory of that morning, and he
[16:59] Speaker 3: said because his truck had broken down and he saw
[17:02] Speaker 3: this blue Commodore station wagon drive into one of the trails,
[17:06] Speaker 3: and he said it it just it caught his eye
[17:09] Speaker 3: because he thought, what is a car like this doing
[17:11] Speaker 3: in this area, because it was that lowered sort of
[17:14] Speaker 3: commodore and these are dirt roads, they're not they're not
[17:19] Speaker 3: sealed roads. An unusual place to be taking a lowered
[17:23] Speaker 3: car like that, and it stood out in his mind
[17:27] Speaker 3: and he reported it to police, that sighting. And the
[17:29] Speaker 3: other thing he said was that when the car passed him,
[17:32] Speaker 3: he tried to wave to the driver and the driver
[17:37] Speaker 3: had his head down and he noticed that this driver
[17:41] Speaker 3: was bearded, and he said he just had his head
[17:44] Speaker 3: down and he looked like he was up to no good.
[17:48] Speaker 3: And he said that was his perception of that, that sighting, and.
[17:55] Speaker 1: His evidence to the inquest the first time we've heard.
[17:58] Speaker 3: From Yes, we didn't hear from him personally, but we
[18:01] Speaker 3: heard about his evidence when it was presented by the
[18:05] Speaker 3: officer in charge when she was running through some of
[18:08] Speaker 3: the key pieces of evidence in connection with Jessica's disappearance,
[18:12] Speaker 3: and she revealed this information, which was of course interest
[18:17] Speaker 3: and the first that anyone else in the courtroom in
[18:21] Speaker 3: terms of Jessica's family and myself as a journalist sitting
[18:24] Speaker 3: there had heard before.
[18:29] Speaker 1: Actually, what do we know about Paul Jones's movements after that,
[18:34] Speaker 1: because we've just had kind of minute by minute through
[18:36] Speaker 1: CCTV through pinging of the phone. We see Jessica at
[18:40] Speaker 1: the service station.
[18:41] Speaker 3: Then what after We see Jessica in the passenger seat,
[18:45] Speaker 3: and the car leaves the service station and Paul Jones
[18:49] Speaker 3: is believed to have headed back into the Hampton State
[18:52] Speaker 3: Forest area. Interestingly, his phone goes flat or is turned
[18:59] Speaker 3: off by we don't know, but his mobile is undetected
[19:04] Speaker 3: for almost five hours. And so when he returns to
[19:10] Speaker 3: Sydney later that afternoon, he's spotted on a traffic camera
[19:15] Speaker 3: coming down the mountain back in towards Sydney, and there
[19:20] Speaker 3: is no sign of Jessica in the front seat, in
[19:23] Speaker 3: the passenger seat, and she was never seen alive again.
[19:29] Speaker 3: Paul Jones didn't report her missing, He didn't tell anyone
[19:34] Speaker 3: as far as we're aware of where Jessica was going,
[19:37] Speaker 3: what happened to her? And this is now what her
[19:42] Speaker 3: family is desperate to know.
[19:44] Speaker 1: So how quickly did her family realize she was missing?
[19:48] Speaker 3: Pretty soon, I'm sure her grandmother was very concerned. Within
[19:54] Speaker 3: the next day and ringing around. But as as I
[19:57] Speaker 3: mentioned before, it wasn't un common for her to stay
[20:02] Speaker 3: on a couch at a friend's place and not come
[20:04] Speaker 3: home for a couple of days, but they usually had
[20:07] Speaker 3: contact with her, so it wasn't it was out of
[20:11] Speaker 3: character for her to go a long period of time
[20:15] Speaker 3: and not be in contact with her family. And so
[20:18] Speaker 3: her grandmother and or another family member reported her missing
[20:23] Speaker 3: to police, and initially it was being treated by the
[20:28] Speaker 3: local detectives and they were investigating her disappearance. And when
[20:33] Speaker 3: the detective started to piece together the CCTV and then
[20:37] Speaker 3: they realized that there was his chance encounter with a
[20:40] Speaker 3: stranger that she didn't know, and they identified the blue
[20:44] Speaker 3: Commodore station wagon. That's when they ramped up this investigation
[20:49] Speaker 3: and it was handed over to the homicide squad.
[20:52] Speaker 1: So that's when they decided that there was potentially bowl play.
[20:57] Speaker 4: Yes, first there was.
[21:00] Speaker 1: Some hope because often always when there's a missing person,
[21:05] Speaker 1: you check whether their bank accounts have been used, You
[21:07] Speaker 1: check mobile phone stuff like that, and her bank account
[21:09] Speaker 1: was being used.
[21:11] Speaker 3: Look, this is a really cruel twist in her story
[21:14] Speaker 3: because her bank account was being used, and it turns
[21:18] Speaker 3: out that it was a so called friend that was
[21:23] Speaker 3: using her bank account and accessing her centilling payments to
[21:27] Speaker 3: the tune of around ten thousand dollars. So I think
[21:30] Speaker 3: that that really didn't help the situation. And her Facebook
[21:35] Speaker 3: and social media was always was also being accessed, So
[21:39] Speaker 3: it left the police with this impression that potentially she
[21:44] Speaker 3: was alive and accessing her money and also using a
[21:47] Speaker 3: social media But of course we now know that that
[21:50] Speaker 3: so called friend was charged with fraud offenses. He pled
[21:55] Speaker 3: guilty in the court and he was sentenced over at
[21:58] Speaker 3: that he had no connection to Jessica's disappearance, right, so
[22:03] Speaker 3: that was investigated, It was investigated, and he was ruled
[22:05] Speaker 3: out and cleared of He didn't have any involvement in
[22:09] Speaker 3: her disappearance. But when you think about it, it does
[22:13] Speaker 3: show Jess's vulnerability.
[22:15] Speaker 1: It goes back to that, doesn't it exactly?
[22:17] Speaker 3: And even the text messages that I found through the
[22:21] Speaker 3: court papers about that particular case, and she was texting
[22:26] Speaker 3: just in the days leading up to her disappearance, texting
[22:29] Speaker 3: this friend and telling him, don't spend my money. You know,
[22:34] Speaker 3: I wanted to go to the hairdresser today. Don't spend it.
[22:36] Speaker 3: You know, never spend my money, and it just showed
[22:40] Speaker 3: that someone was already taking advantage of her in the
[22:43] Speaker 3: lead up to her disappearance. And then, of course we
[22:45] Speaker 3: now know that she's been missing for years now and
[22:51] Speaker 3: we don't know what happened to her.
[22:53] Speaker 1: And did that interference well, I can't see how it
[22:56] Speaker 1: wouldn't have hampered those early investigations.
[22:59] Speaker 4: It must have. It had to have had something to
[23:02] Speaker 4: do with her.
[23:05] Speaker 3: But I think that once police were and onto the
[23:08] Speaker 3: fact that she had met this mystery man, then they
[23:12] Speaker 3: started looking into well who is this driver. They had
[23:15] Speaker 3: his car registration and they quickly identified who he was.
[23:21] Speaker 3: And when they started investigating and they did a public appeal,
[23:27] Speaker 3: they put out the car details of the car as well.
[23:31] Speaker 4: But they did a search warrant.
[23:34] Speaker 3: They executed a search warrant on Paul Jones's workplace and
[23:38] Speaker 3: his caravan where he was living at the time. Nothing
[23:42] Speaker 3: was found connecting which was connected to Jessica's disappearance. But interestingly,
[23:49] Speaker 3: he left town on the day that police turned up
[23:53] Speaker 3: with a search warrant and told them that they were
[23:55] Speaker 3: investigating the disappearance of Jessica Zarinski. As you could imagine,
[24:02] Speaker 3: homicide detectives. This was a serious investigation, and Paul Jones
[24:08] Speaker 3: reached out to his daughter and basically said that he's
[24:13] Speaker 3: going to wa and he couldn't be found for three.
[24:18] Speaker 1: Years, and we'll get to when he was found, because
[24:21] Speaker 1: that is a story. But so back into back in
[24:26] Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, he wasn't interviewed, he couldn't be found
[24:30] Speaker 1: to be interviewed.
[24:31] Speaker 3: Police executed a search warrant on Paul Jones's workplace and
[24:34] Speaker 3: his caravan in January in twenty twenty three, so this
[24:38] Speaker 3: is two months after Jessica's disappearance. He spoke to police
[24:44] Speaker 3: at the location of his workplace, he would have been
[24:47] Speaker 3: cautioned because the homicide detectives would have identified themselves as
[24:52] Speaker 3: homicide squad investigators and they would have said why they're there,
[24:57] Speaker 3: and that would have been on the search warrant that
[25:00] Speaker 3: we are investigating the disappearance of Jessica Zarrensky. So he
[25:03] Speaker 3: was very aware that he was being looked at in
[25:07] Speaker 3: connection with the disappearance of a young woman. And on
[25:11] Speaker 3: that day he went, they seized his car, this blue
[25:15] Speaker 3: Commodore station wagon, so they took it from his work
[25:17] Speaker 3: in front of his colleagues. They took it away for
[25:20] Speaker 3: forensic testing. We don't know exactly what they found in
[25:23] Speaker 3: that forensic testing, but certainly nothing not enough to explain
[25:31] Speaker 3: what may have happened to Jessica. I'm not sure of
[25:35] Speaker 3: what he explained to police as to what happened that night.
[25:39] Speaker 3: That's yet to come out in the coroner's court. But
[25:43] Speaker 3: what we do know is that he, I guess, went
[25:46] Speaker 3: missing himself for close to three years and was known
[25:50] Speaker 3: to be in w A, Queensland.
[25:54] Speaker 4: And yeah, it was.
[25:58] Speaker 3: A long journey need to get to this point where
[26:01] Speaker 3: he finally was served a subpoena to appear at Jessica's inquest.
[26:07] Speaker 1: Well, in the meantime, there are a few searches done
[26:10] Speaker 1: of the Blue Mountains to try and see if they
[26:12] Speaker 1: could find Jessica. On what scale were those searches, I
[26:16] Speaker 1: know you went into the Blue Mountains to see the
[26:18] Speaker 1: kind of areas that they were looking at.
[26:21] Speaker 4: How big were those searches.
[26:23] Speaker 3: They were huge searchers and a big a large amount
[26:27] Speaker 3: of resources were put into those searches. There were two
[26:31] Speaker 3: major land searches that focused on these particular areas in
[26:37] Speaker 3: the Jenolan State Forest and the Hampton State Forest and
[26:41] Speaker 3: they had intelligence which we now know were probably the
[26:46] Speaker 3: phone pings and the detections of Paul Jones's phone in
[26:51] Speaker 3: those particular areas, also the sighting of the blue Commodore
[26:57] Speaker 3: station wagon in that forest area and on that particular track.
[27:02] Speaker 3: They had dozens of volunteers, they had police dogs KADA
[27:07] Speaker 3: the dogs, and they didn't find any trace of Jessica.
[27:13] Speaker 4: You're talking about.
[27:14] Speaker 3: This area is pine forest, so it regularly on this
[27:20] Speaker 3: particular cycle gets harvested and these areas do get logged, so.
[27:28] Speaker 1: It wouldn't be hard to miss a body, because how
[27:32] Speaker 1: can you search every millimeter of ground?
[27:35] Speaker 3: Really, look, I think it's so difficult. You're talking about
[27:40] Speaker 3: a needle in a haystack. When you go out there,
[27:44] Speaker 3: it is overwhelming. And I went out there with Jessica's
[27:49] Speaker 3: auntie and her uncle and just the scale of this
[27:54] Speaker 3: forest and how many tracks are out there, and unless
[27:58] Speaker 3: you have a specific location and we know that, you
[28:03] Speaker 3: know she could have been out there for hours. We
[28:05] Speaker 3: don't know where exactly she was last spotted in that
[28:09] Speaker 3: particular area or where she.
[28:10] Speaker 4: Was taken to.
[28:12] Speaker 3: It's so difficult, and the amount of time that has
[28:16] Speaker 3: passed the blue mountain gets blue mountains gets snow, lots
[28:23] Speaker 3: of rain.
[28:24] Speaker 4: As I said, that area gets harvested and.
[28:28] Speaker 3: The areas get cleared. Jessica was a very small, petite person,
[28:38] Speaker 3: and yeah, no trace of her clothing has ever been found,
[28:44] Speaker 3: very very tragic case.
[28:46] Speaker 1: How did you feel being in the parts of the
[28:49] Speaker 1: forest where we believe she might have been? Was it
[28:52] Speaker 1: because it's not the kind of areas that people frequent.
[28:54] Speaker 1: There might be a few bikers coming past, But what
[28:57] Speaker 1: was it like in there?
[28:59] Speaker 4: Even then?
[29:01] Speaker 3: It was so isolated that we were there for hours
[29:06] Speaker 3: and we didn't see anyone else.
[29:08] Speaker 4: And I think that that was.
[29:10] Speaker 3: Chilling really when you think about it, And we were
[29:12] Speaker 3: there in broad daylight as well, and you just think, yeah,
[29:18] Speaker 3: where is she and what was the purpose of coming
[29:22] Speaker 3: out here? Are there any other persons of interest in
[29:26] Speaker 3: this case? Could Jessica have gone out to the forest
[29:30] Speaker 3: on her own because she enjoyed the forest?
[29:33] Speaker 1: Like? Is there anything else that we need to kind
[29:35] Speaker 1: of think of here?
[29:37] Speaker 3: We have to remain open minded about what happened to Jessica.
[29:41] Speaker 3: While it is an open and active homicide investigation, the
[29:46] Speaker 3: coroner is now examining all of the circumstances surrounding her disappearance.
[29:50] Speaker 4: So a coroner will look at.
[29:52] Speaker 3: The basic facts and now decide and try to determine
[29:58] Speaker 3: Jessica's cause of death, if in fact, Jessica is deceased,
[30:03] Speaker 3: and if there is any reason to make any recommendations
[30:08] Speaker 3: or findings in relation to her case. The coroner also
[30:12] Speaker 3: has the power to refer her matter to the DPP.
[30:16] Speaker 3: We don't know what happened to Jessica. We have to
[30:22] Speaker 3: remain open minded about what happened to her. One of
[30:25] Speaker 3: the tragedies of Jessica's story is that her family is
[30:29] Speaker 3: not holding out hope that she's going to walk back
[30:32] Speaker 3: through the door. They have come to terms with the
[30:35] Speaker 3: fact that Jessica is deceased.
[30:37] Speaker 4: Police believe she is deceased.
[30:40] Speaker 3: And now they want her remains, and they also want
[30:45] Speaker 3: justice if somebody harmed her, they want justice.
[30:52] Speaker 1: After the break, we take a closer look at the
[30:54] Speaker 1: person of interest in this case and the key questions
[30:57] Speaker 1: the inquest into Jessica's death will explore. Obviously, Paul Jones
[31:02] Speaker 1: is the man we need to hear from because he
[31:04] Speaker 1: was the last person to see Jessica, so we need.
[31:07] Speaker 4: To hear his side of the story.
[31:10] Speaker 1: Can you explain why we didn't know his name for
[31:13] Speaker 1: so long because it was suppressed for a long time.
[31:16] Speaker 1: Now we are actually able to see his face and
[31:19] Speaker 1: say his name.
[31:20] Speaker 3: I wish I could answer that question, but I think
[31:22] Speaker 3: that's one for police, because the family and myself were
[31:26] Speaker 3: asking it for a long time as to why this
[31:29] Speaker 3: man's identity was protected for three years when we now
[31:35] Speaker 3: know he couldn't be contacted and he couldn't be found.
[31:39] Speaker 3: He left the state of New South Wales on the
[31:41] Speaker 3: day that he was identified as a person of interest
[31:46] Speaker 3: in Jessica's disappearance, and this search warrant was executed on
[31:50] Speaker 3: his workplace, his car was seized, his caravan was raided,
[31:54] Speaker 3: and then he just disappears. Jessica's family are extreamly frustrated
[32:01] Speaker 3: that for three years they didn't know his identity. Could
[32:05] Speaker 3: you imagine sitting there as a family knowing that there's
[32:08] Speaker 3: this mystery man that your daughter was seen in a
[32:11] Speaker 3: car with, and you see it on the news and
[32:15] Speaker 3: his face is blurred and you can't know his name.
[32:19] Speaker 4: It's weird.
[32:20] Speaker 3: It's I mean, it must be infuriating for them, and
[32:24] Speaker 3: I know it has been They also need to and
[32:28] Speaker 3: have been following the process and this grueling process now
[32:33] Speaker 3: of what the Coroner's court is going through in this
[32:37] Speaker 3: inquest and as I said, still an active homicide investigation.
[32:42] Speaker 3: So Paul Jones has been subpoena to give evidence and
[32:48] Speaker 3: attend the next phase of Jessica's inquest in August.
[32:52] Speaker 1: Tell us that story because you broke that news a
[32:54] Speaker 1: few weeks ago, and it is extraordinary how they actually
[32:58] Speaker 1: delivered that subpoena. It is like something from a movie.
[33:02] Speaker 4: It was crazy when we heard that.
[33:06] Speaker 3: The extent that they went to to deliver this subpoena,
[33:10] Speaker 3: and where he'd been living we don't know for how long,
[33:14] Speaker 3: but living in a cave, a cave, actual cave. It
[33:19] Speaker 3: was covered. You couldn't see it by air or drone.
[33:22] Speaker 3: Apparently there were trees that were covering the cave. You
[33:25] Speaker 3: have to climb down into it. It's off a walking track.
[33:29] Speaker 3: It's in dense bushland in New South Wales, and he's
[33:36] Speaker 3: been living off the grid, we don't know for how long.
[33:39] Speaker 3: And police went and they took a team in to
[33:45] Speaker 3: execute this operation. It was a police operation to deliver
[33:49] Speaker 3: this subpoena to him. They clearly don't have enough evidence
[33:53] Speaker 3: to charge him with any offenses, and he needs to
[33:57] Speaker 3: be afforded the presumption of innocence. But they couldn't even
[34:01] Speaker 3: find him to deliver the subpoena to him. So that
[34:05] Speaker 3: was a big hurdle in itself finding him, and interestingly,
[34:10] Speaker 3: the coronial process is probably how they were able to
[34:15] Speaker 3: find him.
[34:16] Speaker 1: They basically chop it in, didn't they.
[34:18] Speaker 3: I'm not sure that. Definitely there was some eyes in
[34:21] Speaker 3: the sky. I'm not sure to what degree, but they did.
[34:24] Speaker 3: They had to walk in, and they had the rescue
[34:26] Speaker 3: squad was with them. They had to use particular equipment
[34:31] Speaker 3: and used a ladder to get down into the cave
[34:34] Speaker 3: where he was to personally hand him this subpoena. And
[34:39] Speaker 3: what was interesting as well, is he honored this subpoena
[34:42] Speaker 3: and he turned up in court.
[34:43] Speaker 4: He turned up in court, but he.
[34:44] Speaker 3: Was also wearing a suit, which is just a little
[34:48] Speaker 3: bit strange when you realize that he's been living in
[34:51] Speaker 3: this cave and then he turns up to court just
[34:53] Speaker 3: a few days later. He's wearing a suit, and he
[34:58] Speaker 3: looked very presentable, looked he was sitting there in court
[35:02] Speaker 3: and he followed all of the orders that he had
[35:07] Speaker 3: to and he will get an opportunity to tell his
[35:11] Speaker 3: side of the story, and everyone is very much looking
[35:14] Speaker 3: forward to hearing what Paul Jones has to say.
[35:17] Speaker 1: So he didn't do any of that in the first
[35:19] Speaker 1: half of the inquest. He wasn't not any questions.
[35:22] Speaker 4: No, he hasn't been called as a witness yet.
[35:24] Speaker 1: For those that aren't aware of how a coroner's court works.
[35:29] Speaker 1: What happens if you issued a subpoena and then you
[35:32] Speaker 1: don't turn.
[35:33] Speaker 3: Up, well, you can be arrested, right, It's a criminal
[35:36] Speaker 3: offense not to honor a subpoena. He also has rights
[35:40] Speaker 3: as well, and like anyone that appears in a coroner's court,
[35:44] Speaker 3: and we've seen this time and time again that you
[35:47] Speaker 3: have a right to not answer any questions if they
[35:53] Speaker 3: could incriminate you. So we're yet to learn whether or
[35:58] Speaker 3: not he will answer any questions.
[36:00] Speaker 1: Was there anything else that was new news to you
[36:04] Speaker 1: in the first half of the inquest?
[36:06] Speaker 3: Oh, there was so much that we didn't know about
[36:10] Speaker 3: Jessica's case. I mean day one, we learned Paul Jones,
[36:14] Speaker 3: we learned his name, we learned that he left the
[36:18] Speaker 3: state of New South Wales on the day that this
[36:21] Speaker 3: search warrant and homicide detectives approached him, and we also
[36:27] Speaker 3: learned about the details of the phone pings and movements
[36:35] Speaker 3: throughout the night of the phone activity, which I think
[36:39] Speaker 3: is just piecing together the timeline and you just sit
[36:42] Speaker 3: back and.
[36:42] Speaker 4: Sort of go what happened? What were they doing?
[36:45] Speaker 3: And why the Blue Mountains, why this particular area, why
[36:50] Speaker 3: did he go there? Like we said before, why did
[36:53] Speaker 3: he stop for almost nine minutes at this petrol station?
[36:56] Speaker 4: And where is Jessica?
[36:59] Speaker 1: Well, I guess we will hopefully tell his side of
[37:02] Speaker 1: the story at the next stage of the inquest. How
[37:06] Speaker 1: is Jessica's family feeling about this process? Going to court
[37:09] Speaker 1: is strange for any family. How are they coping with it?
[37:13] Speaker 4: It's extremely difficult for them.
[37:15] Speaker 3: I think they all handle it in their own individual ways,
[37:20] Speaker 3: but a very very emotional and traumatic experience to be
[37:25] Speaker 3: sitting in a coroner's court when you're trying to get
[37:29] Speaker 3: answers and find out where you're missing loved one is
[37:33] Speaker 3: so to sit there in court and the people that
[37:37] Speaker 3: have to turn up and give evidence, it's difficult for
[37:39] Speaker 3: them too.
[37:41] Speaker 4: It's not a usual.
[37:43] Speaker 3: Thing to have to go to a court and sit
[37:47] Speaker 3: and give evidence about someone you love or someone you
[37:50] Speaker 3: know that may in some way be connected to the
[37:54] Speaker 3: disappearance of a young woman.
[37:56] Speaker 4: So I think it was.
[37:58] Speaker 3: A very very emotional and conform But Jesse's family are
[38:03] Speaker 3: very united in the fact that they want this process
[38:07] Speaker 3: to play out, and they do have hope that they
[38:11] Speaker 3: will get the answers that they're very much hoping for.
[38:16] Speaker 1: And how long can we expect the next stage of
[38:20] Speaker 1: the inquest to go for? And when do we get findings?
[38:24] Speaker 4: Look, how long is a piece of stream?
[38:26] Speaker 1: Could be years, really, couldn't it.
[38:27] Speaker 3: It could be it could be a lot quicker. It
[38:30] Speaker 3: may be. Yeah, I just we don't know. I think
[38:34] Speaker 3: the next stage will be interesting, and whether or not
[38:38] Speaker 3: there's another stage after that.
[38:41] Speaker 4: We don't know. We'll have to keep following it.
[38:44] Speaker 1: Prime is your world. You've interviewed and covered so many cases.
[38:49] Speaker 1: How have you found working on this case? It is
[38:52] Speaker 1: still so fresh, it's all longgoing. You're talking to a
[38:56] Speaker 1: family who's only just kind of learned names and learned timelines.
[39:01] Speaker 1: How have you found working on this case?
[39:03] Speaker 3: It's been an eye opening experience to work on this
[39:08] Speaker 3: case and a lot of a lot of learnings, but
[39:12] Speaker 3: basically working closely with Jessica's family and trying to get
[39:18] Speaker 3: to the bottom of what happened to her.
[39:22] Speaker 4: Yeah is yeah, there's a lot of responsibility in that.
[39:26] Speaker 3: You also have to be very cautious to remain open
[39:29] Speaker 3: minded about what did happen to her. But I think
[39:33] Speaker 3: raising awareness about Jessica's case is a good thing.
[39:37] Speaker 4: You know, we shouldn't forget.
[39:40] Speaker 3: Missing women and any missing person or any type of
[39:45] Speaker 3: case like this that's unresolved. These families deserve to know
[39:49] Speaker 3: what happened, and it is a privilege in my space
[39:53] Speaker 3: to be able to work with these families and follow
[39:55] Speaker 3: it through.
[39:57] Speaker 1: I'm interested to hear more broadly. You have sat with
[40:02] Speaker 1: the next to so many people's grief in their homes,
[40:05] Speaker 1: seeing the bedrooms of loved ones that have passed photo albums.
[40:11] Speaker 1: What stays with you about that experience and do you
[40:15] Speaker 1: see kind of similar experiences playing out across families have
[40:19] Speaker 1: lost loved ones.
[40:21] Speaker 3: Every case is different, and the way people cope with
[40:24] Speaker 3: deep grief is also very different. There's something that always
[40:28] Speaker 3: stays with you about a particular case, and whether it's
[40:33] Speaker 3: something that a family is said to you or something
[40:36] Speaker 3: that you've seen that's just sad and tragic, and I
[40:40] Speaker 3: guess for me that's actually a motivator.
[40:42] Speaker 4: I just think it's cruel.
[40:44] Speaker 3: It's cruel what these families have to go through, and
[40:47] Speaker 3: you just hope that you are never in that position.
[40:53] Speaker 3: It's not a position you ever want to be in.
[40:56] Speaker 3: These families want me to help them in any way,
[40:58] Speaker 3: which is to raise away, which is to do my
[41:02] Speaker 3: own investigation and to try and gather more witnesses or
[41:06] Speaker 3: just put the spotlight on a particular loved one's case.
[41:10] Speaker 3: That's something that I think is meaningful and I get
[41:14] Speaker 3: a lot of purpose out of that. As a journalist,
[41:17] Speaker 3: I think that it's important.
[41:19] Speaker 1: I think, I mean, we can pull the curtain back
[41:22] Speaker 1: a little bit on this podcast because people might see
[41:25] Speaker 1: you on the TV or in your videos, and you know,
[41:29] Speaker 1: we're always very polished, but when you're sitting in that courtroom,
[41:34] Speaker 1: you also care about what's going to happen. You're like
[41:37] Speaker 1: so connected to the family, You're so entrenched in that story.
[41:41] Speaker 1: You want to see an outcome, you want to see answers.
[41:44] Speaker 3: Of course, of course, and there's a side from all
[41:48] Speaker 3: of that of being in the courtroom. There's also hours
[41:50] Speaker 3: and hours of talking to loved ones on the phone
[41:54] Speaker 3: and all the moments that they're finding out new information
[41:59] Speaker 3: and you're talking.
[42:01] Speaker 4: All the time.
[42:01] Speaker 3: So yeah, it's as I said, Yeah, coroner's courts in
[42:07] Speaker 3: general sad places and a lot of confronting material comes
[42:12] Speaker 3: out in court cases, but also some really moving moments.
[42:17] Speaker 3: I think in Jessica's in quest, there was a particular
[42:22] Speaker 3: police officer and he was involved in Jessica's searches, and
[42:26] Speaker 3: he turned to the family and addressed them and said
[42:29] Speaker 3: that he wouldn't give up. And I know that when
[42:31] Speaker 3: the officer in charge as well, addressed the family when
[42:35] Speaker 3: she was asked a question as to whether she believed
[42:39] Speaker 3: Jessica was alive or not. When she answered that question,
[42:42] Speaker 3: that must have been really difficult for her.
[42:44] Speaker 4: I'm sure she's.
[42:45] Speaker 3: Had those moments with the family where she's had to
[42:47] Speaker 3: tell them, you know, we don't believe Jessica is alive.
[42:51] Speaker 3: But to say it in a courtroom and to have
[42:54] Speaker 3: to publicly face them like that and deliver that hard truth,
[42:59] Speaker 3: I think is difficult.
[43:00] Speaker 4: Well, it's very real.
[43:02] Speaker 1: It is very real, and it's obvious that the police
[43:04] Speaker 1: are working really hard on this case, I mean case
[43:07] Speaker 1: in point, how they got a subpoena to the person
[43:10] Speaker 1: who last saw her, like they are really trying to
[43:13] Speaker 1: finance us for this family.
[43:14] Speaker 3: They are and everyone is hoping that they can get
[43:18] Speaker 3: to the bottom of this.
[43:22] Speaker 1: Thank you to Ashley for helping us to tell this story.
[43:25] Speaker 1: If you want to see visuals from this episode, head
[43:27] Speaker 1: over to our Instagram page at True Crime Conversations, and
[43:31] Speaker 1: for in depth case explainers, follow us on TikTok under
[43:34] Speaker 1: the same name. Thanks so much for listening. I'll be
[43:37] Speaker 1: back next week with another True Crime Conversation

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