# UPDATE: Inside The ‘Dezi Freeman’ Inquest & The New Courtroom Revelations

An episode of [True Crime Conversations](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1469153910), 31 May 2026, 19 min.

Audio: https://traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/3ea926be-9be7-482a-8ac3-a44f016e43d1/abaa347e-8ac5-454e-85f9-aa64005c285f/129dc84f-4aff-4cd1-93c5-b4590040fb5d/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=6d9fdc19-147e-4f77-8d3f-aa64005e5923

Just over a week after we covered the murders of Victorian police officers Vadim De Waart-Hottart and Neal Thompson, we've learned more information about the case from the Coronial Inquest Hearing. Desmond Filby, 'Dezi Freeman', was shot dead following a seven-month manhunt, and this week, the Victorian Coroner’s Court heard the opening of two inquests. 7NEWS reporter Rochelle Brown explains what we learnt. LINKS If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636. New Mamamia subscribers get $40 off — $20 off an annual membership and $20 off your TWOOBS order. Click here to subscribe. Already a subscriber? Click here for your $20 TWOOBS discount code. T&C's apply. GET IN TOUCH Follow us on Instagram and TikTok @truecrimeconversations Want us to cover a case on the podcast? Email us at truecrime@mamamia.com.au or send us a voice note. Make sure to leave us a rating and review on Apple & Spotify to let us know how you're liking the episodes. CREDITS Guest: 7News Journalist Rochelle Brown Host: Gemma Bath Senior Producer: Tahli Blackman Group Executive Producer: Ilaria Brophy Video Editor: Julian Rosario Mamamia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we have recorded this podcast. Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi.
[0:01] Speaker 2: I'm Jemma Bath, host of True Crime Conversations, and I'm
[0:04] Speaker 2: dropping into ears with an update on the case we
[0:07] Speaker 2: covered just a week ago, the twenty twenty five murders
[0:10] Speaker 2: of Victorian police officers Verdim de vat Hatta and Neil
[0:14] Speaker 2: Thompson at the hands of Desmond Philby, who sent police
[0:18] Speaker 2: on a seven month manhunt. Philby was shot dead in
[0:21] Speaker 2: a standoff in March twenty twenty six after he was
[0:25] Speaker 2: found hiding out on a remote property in a shipping
[0:28] Speaker 2: container about one hundred kilometers from his place of residence
[0:32] Speaker 2: in Porpunker. It was there at his home that he
[0:36] Speaker 2: shot and killed the officers injuring a third while they
[0:40] Speaker 2: were trying to conduct a search warrant based on allegations
[0:42] Speaker 2: of child abuse against Philby. Now the court proceedings in
[0:47] Speaker 2: this case are getting underway. On May twenty fifth, in
[0:51] Speaker 2: the Victorian Coroner's Court, family, colleagues and media gathered for
[0:56] Speaker 2: the opening of two inquests seven newses. Rochelle Brown was there.
[1:01] Speaker 2: We asked her to walk us through what we learned. Rochelle,
[1:05] Speaker 2: thank you for joining us. Firstly, can you tell us
[1:07] Speaker 2: procedurally what happened in the Melbourne Coroners Court because they
[1:11] Speaker 2: actually opened two inquests, which is quite unusual really in
[1:14] Speaker 2: a crime, isn't it.
[1:16] Speaker 3: Thank you for having me, Jemma. It is very unusual.
[1:19] Speaker 1: But I mean, we've got this highly unusual situation where
[1:23] Speaker 1: we've had these two parallel, awful incidents. You know, we've
[1:26] Speaker 1: had the shootout involving the two police officers, those two
[1:31] Speaker 1: fall on police officers, and then you've also got you know,
[1:33] Speaker 1: the shootout where Desmond Philby has been killed. So you know,
[1:37] Speaker 1: we've had this very unusual instance where there's these two
[1:41] Speaker 1: ordeals and now we have to deal with them on
[1:43] Speaker 1: a coronial level because there's no one really to charge
[1:47] Speaker 1: in these instances, but they still need to investigate it.
[1:49] Speaker 3: So, I mean, for people that don't kind of know.
[1:52] Speaker 1: The process at home, a coronial is quite different to
[1:56] Speaker 1: a criminal process. But essentially it's to make reckons to
[2:00] Speaker 1: prevent similar deaths in the future, to figure out if
[2:03] Speaker 1: it could have ended differently. But you know, the coroner
[2:07] Speaker 1: kind of said in court it's not their role to
[2:09] Speaker 1: point the finger and lay blame like you would you
[2:11] Speaker 1: know in a criminal kind of procedure. It's very different
[2:14] Speaker 1: to a criminal case. In that way, but there's still,
[2:17] Speaker 1: you know, a lot of similar similarities. You've got evidence,
[2:19] Speaker 1: you've got witnesses that we'll hear from at a later date,
[2:22] Speaker 1: and a lot of investigations, so it's similar in that way, jam.
[2:26] Speaker 2: But this kind of opening, it's more of like what
[2:29] Speaker 2: they call a directions hearing, right, So it's kind of
[2:31] Speaker 2: just like working out dates and that kind of thing.
[2:33] Speaker 2: Why did we find out so much new information? What
[2:35] Speaker 2: actually happened? Who spoke?
[2:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's a directions hearing is like the very
[2:42] Speaker 1: kind of start of an inquest process.
[2:45] Speaker 3: But it is kind of typical.
[2:46] Speaker 1: To hear a summary of what's happened, So it's sort
[2:49] Speaker 1: of an agreed summary that the lawyers have all decided
[2:52] Speaker 1: to be able to read out in court.
[2:54] Speaker 3: So it's not unusual that we might kind of hear.
[2:56] Speaker 1: This level of detail. It is procedural as well, though
[3:00] Speaker 1: obviously normally you'd get a few dates. In this case,
[3:03] Speaker 1: we probably didn't get as many dates as you typically.
[3:06] Speaker 4: Get, and normally you might hear a little bit more.
[3:09] Speaker 1: About witnesses, like who's going to come before the court
[3:14] Speaker 1: and give evidence In the actual inquest, we didn't hear
[3:18] Speaker 1: much of that they pretty much said a lot of
[3:19] Speaker 1: that wasn't ready, but we did hear this summary, which
[3:24] Speaker 1: is typical in a directions hearing before an inquest to
[3:28] Speaker 1: hear that kind of level of detail.
[3:30] Speaker 3: I guess it's the first chance.
[3:32] Speaker 1: If you're not going through a criminal proceedings for family,
[3:36] Speaker 1: for those involved to hear a bit more in depth
[3:38] Speaker 1: about what happened that day.
[3:41] Speaker 2: You were there in court, what was it like? Who
[3:44] Speaker 2: was there? Because this was a huge story both in
[3:48] Speaker 2: August last year and then when Philby was killed this year.
[3:52] Speaker 2: I imagine there was a big media contingent. Who else was
[3:55] Speaker 2: in that room?
[3:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a huge media contingent, But of course,
[3:59] Speaker 1: you know, it's the loved ones that is the.
[4:02] Speaker 3: Most interesting in these cases.
[4:04] Speaker 1: We saw the loved ones of Neil Thompson. They were
[4:06] Speaker 1: physically in court, so his sisters. There was a number
[4:11] Speaker 1: of other family members that were referenced, including William's family
[4:15] Speaker 1: that were on a link. So a lot of people
[4:16] Speaker 1: were kind of watching remotely and not physically in court,
[4:20] Speaker 1: which again is quite typical in this sort of process,
[4:23] Speaker 1: given how long that you know, things can drag out
[4:25] Speaker 1: and people are living elsewhere for them to tune in online.
[4:31] Speaker 1: Obviously those family members often people often ask me, you know,
[4:36] Speaker 1: what was the emotion, like, what was it kind of
[4:38] Speaker 1: like in court with these big stories for these sisters,
[4:42] Speaker 1: they sat calm, They sat composed despite hearing a lot
[4:46] Speaker 1: of disturbing new detail which must have been horrific, but
[4:50] Speaker 1: not unusual with these awful kind of instances that they
[4:54] Speaker 1: try and remain calm in court.
[4:55] Speaker 4: It's a long process that they've been through.
[4:58] Speaker 1: Obviously a lot of police officers too, so there were
[5:00] Speaker 1: several senior police officers, you know, you've had the likes
[5:03] Speaker 1: of the homicide Squad boss Dean Thomas and the head
[5:08] Speaker 1: of the Police Association, Wayne Gatt. He was also there,
[5:11] Speaker 1: all kind of there in a show of support, but
[5:13] Speaker 1: also they have obviously an interest in this case and
[5:17] Speaker 1: seeing what happened that day as well.
[5:18] Speaker 2: Let's talk about that summary you mentioned, because there was
[5:21] Speaker 2: quite a lot of new information that came out that
[5:23] Speaker 2: the public and the family wouldn't have known about. Let's
[5:26] Speaker 2: start with why the officers were there in the first place.
[5:30] Speaker 2: We were told it was a search warrant, but we
[5:32] Speaker 2: were given more information in court as to what the
[5:35] Speaker 2: actual search warrant was for Can you tell us about it?
[5:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, as you said, we knew a lot of rough daytail,
[5:41] Speaker 1: and we knew that there was some horrific child abuse allegations,
[5:43] Speaker 1: but this is the first time that we've really heard
[5:45] Speaker 1: specifics about that, so we learned about why police were
[5:49] Speaker 1: specifically there in the first place. So he was not
[5:52] Speaker 1: only accused of the sexual assault of a child under sixteen,
[5:55] Speaker 1: he was also accused of attempting to involve a child
[5:59] Speaker 1: in the production of child abuse material. So yeah, some
[6:02] Speaker 1: pretty horrific details there, especially for those families to hear
[6:07] Speaker 1: about that were sitting in court, and certainly I think
[6:11] Speaker 1: that we will hear a little bit more about.
[6:14] Speaker 3: That going forward, but we know that they were there.
[6:17] Speaker 1: To arrest him on those allegations.
[6:20] Speaker 3: They were there to seize his devices.
[6:23] Speaker 1: Obviously when they got there, they got a whole lot
[6:25] Speaker 1: more than they bargained for, but that's that was the purpose.
[6:29] Speaker 2: I think that probably was one of the most shocking
[6:33] Speaker 2: revelations because originally we kind of thought it was child
[6:36] Speaker 2: abuse material, and then to hear it was an actual
[6:39] Speaker 2: allegation of child abuse against Philby, like that is a
[6:44] Speaker 2: whole nother kind of level of allegation really.
[6:50] Speaker 3: And it's horrific.
[6:51] Speaker 1: And I guess, you know, you can't even imagine these
[6:54] Speaker 1: police officers. They're just there to do their jobs, you know,
[6:57] Speaker 1: and they're thinking that they're walking into the situation. There's
[7:00] Speaker 1: some really serious allegations playing out here. They're hoping to
[7:03] Speaker 1: arrest him, and you know, his hostile from the very beginning,
[7:10] Speaker 1: and you know, they kind of presented him with these
[7:13] Speaker 1: allegations with a warrant, and straight away he was questioning
[7:17] Speaker 1: the validity of the warrant, he was questioning why they
[7:20] Speaker 1: were there. He was balling out the allegations, saying that
[7:23] Speaker 1: there was nothing to them.
[7:26] Speaker 3: So from the get go, this was hostile.
[7:29] Speaker 2: For seven eight months, we'd kind of heard very brief
[7:32] Speaker 2: details that Neil Thompson was shot first, then the dim
[7:37] Speaker 2: was shot, but we didn't really have details about how
[7:39] Speaker 2: that all played out. You heard in detail, didn't you, Yeah, there.
[7:43] Speaker 3: Was a lot of detail.
[7:44] Speaker 4: This is, as I said, the very first time that
[7:46] Speaker 4: we've been out of here, a lot of this.
[7:48] Speaker 3: So they negotiated with him for thirty four minutes out.
[7:53] Speaker 1: Any shots were fired, essentially, you know, going back and
[7:56] Speaker 1: forth over that warrant. At one point he's kind of said,
[7:59] Speaker 1: you know, I want to take this to the Supreme Court.
[8:01] Speaker 3: There's a dut to process for this. I want this.
[8:03] Speaker 4: Before just as he told them to go to hell.
[8:06] Speaker 3: You know, it was quite.
[8:08] Speaker 1: Intense, and he still refused to come out of this
[8:11] Speaker 1: sort of bus where he was living on that property.
[8:15] Speaker 1: At the end of that negotiation, Neil Thompson starts to
[8:19] Speaker 1: kind of lower himself into the bus through a window opening,
[8:23] Speaker 1: and that was the first time Desmond Philly shot him.
[8:28] Speaker 3: And then almost.
[8:29] Speaker 1: Immediately after he shoots Vidim and as the other officers flee,
[8:34] Speaker 1: they try and sick cover des he's kind of heard
[8:38] Speaker 1: saying over and over, I had no choice. I had
[8:41] Speaker 1: no choice. I had no choice. And then this is
[8:44] Speaker 1: kind of the horrific detail that really got to me.
[8:46] Speaker 1: He then he exits the bus, he approaches Vidim, he
[8:50] Speaker 1: takes his gun. He later returns to his body and
[8:55] Speaker 1: you know, he's swearing at him. He tells him to
[8:58] Speaker 1: die and how before then shooting Neil Thompson second time.
[9:03] Speaker 3: So you know that second time was what, you.
[9:07] Speaker 1: Know, a very sort of new detail that I don't
[9:10] Speaker 1: heard before.
[9:12] Speaker 4: It was, you know, this revelation that it was not
[9:14] Speaker 4: just a heated moment. This was cold blooded. This was
[9:19] Speaker 4: you know, an evil action that he's come back a
[9:21] Speaker 4: second time.
[9:22] Speaker 3: Yeah, and then you know, he stands over both.
[9:25] Speaker 1: Bodies after that, and he makes various remarks, some of
[9:29] Speaker 1: them so awful that the lawyers would never read them
[9:32] Speaker 1: out in court. They just you know, set out of
[9:34] Speaker 1: respect to the families, we're not going to read those out,
[9:38] Speaker 1: which is pretty shocking. It's yeah, and you can imagine
[9:41] Speaker 1: kind of the mood in the courtroom as that, you know, unful.
[9:45] Speaker 2: It is really shocking because often in court all of
[9:48] Speaker 2: the details I've read out, you do hear all of
[9:51] Speaker 2: those shocking details. But how to make that decision I'm
[9:55] Speaker 2: not going to read out these remarks. You can only
[9:57] Speaker 2: imagine how horrible they were. It really does leave you
[10:00] Speaker 2: kind of thick thinking about.
[10:02] Speaker 1: It exactly exactly, and you can, you know, you can't
[10:05] Speaker 1: even imagine how those families would be feeling hearing that
[10:08] Speaker 1: level of detail. I don't know how much they would
[10:09] Speaker 1: have known before this, but it certainly was presented in
[10:12] Speaker 1: a way that sounded like the family had never heard
[10:14] Speaker 1: these details before. So you can imagine hearing that in
[10:18] Speaker 1: a room full of people as opposed to you know,
[10:20] Speaker 1: digesting that.
[10:21] Speaker 3: On your own.
[10:22] Speaker 1: You know that the awful Sometimes that core process can
[10:27] Speaker 1: be absolutely awful.
[10:28] Speaker 2: Victim's family very de traumatizing. Yeah, I understand that Philby
[10:33] Speaker 2: also sent a message we hadn't heard about that before
[10:36] Speaker 2: to his wife.
[10:37] Speaker 3: Yeah, that was very interesting detail. Sort of as he
[10:40] Speaker 3: was fleeing, he sends.
[10:41] Speaker 1: His wife at text I've got to hear it reads
[10:45] Speaker 1: beb get a mile away and keep going, see you
[10:48] Speaker 1: in heaven. Love. So quite as sort of chilling text
[10:51] Speaker 1: message read out, And that really was the start of
[10:55] Speaker 1: it all. That was the start of it. Seven months manhunt,
[10:57] Speaker 1: the biggest in Victoria's history, and you know where we
[11:02] Speaker 1: are today. Yeah.
[11:04] Speaker 2: The other detail that was talked about a bit was
[11:07] Speaker 2: the fact that Philby didn't have active firearms licenses. He didn't.
[11:12] Speaker 2: They didn't believe he had guns, right, That's quite an
[11:14] Speaker 2: important detail because they would have I'm assuming, and you
[11:17] Speaker 2: can expand on it, they would have kind of approached
[11:20] Speaker 2: that house differently, or that property differently if they'd known
[11:24] Speaker 2: or assumed there would be guns there.
[11:26] Speaker 3: You would think so.
[11:27] Speaker 1: But I mean they did come with a contingent of
[11:29] Speaker 1: ten officers. I think they were prepared, but nothing could
[11:32] Speaker 1: have prepared, you know, these officers for what did unfold.
[11:37] Speaker 3: He did have a gun.
[11:39] Speaker 1: Licenses at some point, but they had expired long before
[11:43] Speaker 1: or you know, had been suspended or expired long before
[11:45] Speaker 1: this all unfolded. So certainly they didn't have intelligence that
[11:50] Speaker 1: he had had active gun licenses or guns at this time.
[11:55] Speaker 1: Whether that would have changed anything if they had knowing that,
[11:58] Speaker 1: I get We can only speculator, I suppose, but certainly,
[12:02] Speaker 1: you know, they went in with lots of detectives ready
[12:05] Speaker 1: to I guess, arrest him at pounds and they always,
[12:08] Speaker 1: you know, take precautions going into that.
[12:10] Speaker 4: Whether it could have played out differently is anyone's guess.
[12:13] Speaker 1: And whether that will be explored in the inquest is
[12:16] Speaker 1: also a possibility.
[12:17] Speaker 2: To more of this conversation after the break, where we'll
[12:21] Speaker 2: hear more about Philby's final moments. So the murders of
[12:25] Speaker 2: Vidim and Neil, they were kind of discussed in that
[12:28] Speaker 2: first inquest opening in the morning, and then you came
[12:30] Speaker 2: back in the afternoon to hear about the shooting death
[12:33] Speaker 2: of Philby in the afternoon. What did you learn about
[12:38] Speaker 2: Philby's final moments and that final standoff that we hadn't
[12:42] Speaker 2: heard before.
[12:43] Speaker 1: So I guess what happened to Desmond Philby is you know,
[12:47] Speaker 1: long en sort of shrouded in mystery. We haven't heard
[12:49] Speaker 1: as many details as we had about you know, that
[12:52] Speaker 1: horrific first shooting in pull Punka, So this again was
[12:55] Speaker 1: sort of the first chance to get any kind of detail.
[12:57] Speaker 3: It was a lot shorter than the first in quest.
[12:59] Speaker 1: Though, given that detectives are only at a certain point
[13:02] Speaker 1: in investigations, they're still collecting all the information, etc.
[13:06] Speaker 3: It's a lot sort of fresher, so.
[13:08] Speaker 1: They did kind of acknowledge that there would be a
[13:10] Speaker 1: lot less detail, but we did learn a lot of
[13:12] Speaker 1: interesting things. So essentially, for those that don't know, and
[13:16] Speaker 1: it's obviously two hundred kilometers from Portpunker where it's all
[13:18] Speaker 1: unfolded in a shipping container, so quite far from that
[13:21] Speaker 1: initial kind of shoot out. They've received intelligence that he
[13:25] Speaker 1: was hiding out at that property about a week earlier.
[13:28] Speaker 1: They didn't go into a great deal of detail about
[13:30] Speaker 1: that intelligence, but again I'm sure we might hear a
[13:33] Speaker 1: little bit more about that later on.
[13:35] Speaker 3: So police arrived again. It was a period of negotiation.
[13:39] Speaker 1: Almost two hours actually that they negotiated with him in
[13:42] Speaker 1: this case, he tried to lure police in during those negotiations,
[13:46] Speaker 1: which is quite sort of an interesting element to this
[13:49] Speaker 1: whole incident. He even said at one point, come have
[13:52] Speaker 1: a beer with me. We'll talk about it, you know,
[13:55] Speaker 1: sort of trying to lure them inside.
[13:57] Speaker 3: I suppose in the midst of.
[14:01] Speaker 1: All that, he's also calling them thugs and bullies and
[14:04] Speaker 1: accusing them of all being corrupt. You know, He's trying
[14:07] Speaker 1: to tease them and at one point calling them cowards,
[14:10] Speaker 1: saying come and get me, Come and get me. That's
[14:12] Speaker 1: kind of when this all escalates. They eventually pump gas
[14:17] Speaker 1: into the shipping chainer. They put sort of a hole
[14:19] Speaker 1: and pumped gas in there, and that's.
[14:22] Speaker 3: When he sort of emerges. He emerges with a gun,
[14:26] Speaker 3: he shoots it at police. They return fire.
[14:29] Speaker 1: So it's at that point that Desmond is killed. He's
[14:33] Speaker 1: killed in a hail of gunfire after discharging actually the
[14:38] Speaker 1: same firearm that he had stolen in that initial shootout
[14:41] Speaker 1: at Putpunker, and we learned that there were eight members
[14:45] Speaker 1: firing multiple rounds at him, which, yeah, we certainly didn't
[14:51] Speaker 1: know the amount of police officers that had fired.
[14:56] Speaker 4: You know what had really unfolded in those final moments.
[15:00] Speaker 2: And something that was discussed I believe was body warm
[15:03] Speaker 2: cameras because there weren't any, and they kind of explained why.
[15:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, Interestingly, they didn't go into too much detail about that,
[15:13] Speaker 1: only to say that there is no body warm camera
[15:15] Speaker 1: footage the police that attendant weren't wearing them in saying
[15:20] Speaker 1: that there is other evidence that they're going to rely on,
[15:23] Speaker 1: which there's footage from up above, so aerial footage.
[15:28] Speaker 3: And then there's also.
[15:29] Speaker 1: Interestingly a twenty three minute recording that Desmond made on
[15:35] Speaker 1: his own phone of the entire kind of back and
[15:38] Speaker 1: forth and the actual shooting itself that they're going to
[15:42] Speaker 1: rely on throughout this inquest process as part of the
[15:45] Speaker 1: evidence too.
[15:47] Speaker 2: So what are the next steps from here? We obviously
[15:49] Speaker 2: heard these opening remarks, and now do police get to
[15:52] Speaker 2: go away and kind of prepare their evidence a bit more?
[15:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, so they put together what's called I guess a
[15:58] Speaker 1: brief I think they call it a corona brief of evidence.
[16:01] Speaker 1: In these kind of cases, they have some time to
[16:04] Speaker 1: pull all that together. Once that's done, they can kind
[16:08] Speaker 1: of come back to court and set an inquest date
[16:11] Speaker 1: so there was a one date set for the initial
[16:16] Speaker 1: Poorpunker shooting for the death of those two officers, which
[16:21] Speaker 1: is not until twenty twenty seven.
[16:22] Speaker 4: So we're looking at March twenty twenty seven, and they even.
[16:25] Speaker 1: Kind of acknowledged in court that that was just an
[16:27] Speaker 1: estimation at this point that could be pushed back, that
[16:30] Speaker 1: could change. So we are looking at, you know, kind
[16:34] Speaker 1: of months even a year before. We're really exploring a
[16:39] Speaker 1: lot more of what happened and getting into that, I guess,
[16:42] Speaker 1: more in depth peronial process.
[16:46] Speaker 2: It's interesting because we're not often on our podcast looking
[16:50] Speaker 2: at crimes that are happening right now, and so often
[16:53] Speaker 2: I'm looking in retrospect at how these processes really affect
[16:57] Speaker 2: families and victims loved ones because they wait for so long,
[17:01] Speaker 2: They live in this kind of in the crime for
[17:04] Speaker 2: so long because they don't have that like end date,
[17:07] Speaker 2: and you can kind of see exactly how that's going
[17:09] Speaker 2: to happen. Those families are grieving, they're trying to work
[17:11] Speaker 2: through their emotions, and now they're going to have to
[17:13] Speaker 2: wait a year and then hear all these new details
[17:16] Speaker 2: again and go through the processes again. It's like, I know,
[17:19] Speaker 2: it's not anyone's fault. This is just how court works
[17:22] Speaker 2: kind of we need the time to get the police
[17:24] Speaker 2: brief all together to then go to the coroner. But
[17:27] Speaker 2: you can't help but think of the families and how
[17:30] Speaker 2: what that weight is going to.
[17:31] Speaker 3: Be, Like, yeah, it's an incredible wait.
[17:33] Speaker 1: You know, often in cases that I've said on when
[17:36] Speaker 1: they come to an end, you know, you ask people
[17:38] Speaker 1: how they're feeling naturally when you know there's a result,
[17:41] Speaker 1: and they talk often not about the result itself, but
[17:44] Speaker 1: the fact that they're so relieved that this process is over.
[17:47] Speaker 1: It's almost like they can't fully grieve until the court
[17:51] Speaker 1: process is over, which is awful. I mean a case
[17:53] Speaker 1: they said on the other day that family had waited
[17:55] Speaker 1: nine years.
[17:56] Speaker 2: Wow, ye nine years, that's terrific.
[18:00] Speaker 1: Yeah, So, I mean in this case, it's kind of
[18:02] Speaker 1: a normal sort of you know, at the time frames
[18:04] Speaker 1: are pretty normal at this point, but obviously there are
[18:07] Speaker 1: things that do happen that there.
[18:08] Speaker 3: Is someone's fault in there and it blows out. I
[18:12] Speaker 3: do think in.
[18:12] Speaker 4: This case that they will get you know, it will
[18:15] Speaker 4: be quite succinct.
[18:16] Speaker 1: I think once we get to that in quest process,
[18:19] Speaker 1: hopefully next year, it will kind of play out, and
[18:22] Speaker 1: hopefully those families can yeah, I guess continue to grieve
[18:26] Speaker 1: and reach their next chapter and hopefully feel some kind
[18:29] Speaker 1: of finality from knowing exactly what happened.
[18:33] Speaker 2: Michelle, thank you so much for joining us, and well,
[18:36] Speaker 2: I guess we'll wait until next year to see what happens.
[18:38] Speaker 4: That's right, Thank you for having me

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